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Un-Gatekeeping How to Build Community with Your Customers with Michael Rangel of Novo
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- [00:00]
Michael Rangel
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Courtney Johnson
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I am here to un gatekeep the gatekept. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy. I have been using Novo for the last like two years. I. You. I have three different Novo accounts. I use it for literally every single one of my businesses. It's great. I initially was drawn to it because whenever I was looking for, you know, finance solutions, I honestly just like to find the tools that are the most fun to use, the most easy to use, and most match my tech stack. And what stood out to me about Novo is that it felt like any other modern tech tool that I was already using. Like it fit in with my ClickUp or with Riverside, there's all of these tools. It felt like it was a part of a modern tech stack. Was that intentional?
- [00:59]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I'll give you a little bit about the Nova origin story, which is now literally about nine years ago, right? So about nine years ago, my co founder and I came together and we were like, we wanted to do something in fintech and we thought that we wanted to do something within the world of like, banking as well. We initially thought we were going to do something like a challenger bank for consumers, but then after doing it on so much research, it was like, that's not really that interesting because, like, everyone builds products for consumers because, like, Michael and Courtney are kind of similar on, you know, whether on paper or how they use products or whatever. But where we believe the biggest problem was and the most pain existed was for small businesses. Why? Because every small business is different. No matter if you and I are in the same industry doing the same thing. If we have completely different tech stacks, the tool that we would need to operate our business would need to be vastly different because you need to work with those other things. And so we kind of like let off with the hypothesis of imagine if you had, you know, instead of like what a big bank offers or a one size fits all type of product for a small business, imagine if the checking account, or what we call the foundation of the financial stack, imagine if that can almost be customized on a per business or per customer basis. Like, how cool would that be if it were almost like a custom fit suit experience where you're like, okay, I use this tool, I use that tool, I use that tool and I don't use any of those tools, so I don't need that functionality. And like, we just allow our customers to customize their products as they see fit. So super Intentional. Really, really appreciative that you even brought it up.
- [02:49]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, it actually reminds me of back when I was in corporate marketing. We would make like custom dashboards for clients based on what their goals and intentions were and have specific integration. And that also, like, that feels like like novo to me. I heard a little rumor that you actually had some money set aside for your mba and you were like, maybe I'm not going to get an mba. Maybe I should start a business instead. Is that true?
- [03:14]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, it's very much not a rumor. I'll give you the larger story even I quit my job in finance. I traveled with my wife, who you just met, all over the world for a few months. Between my job in finance and what I thought I was going to do next, which was gonna. And get an mba, I literally moved up to New York City. I was sleeping on my brother's couch in Hell's Kitchen with his two other roommates. Right. Just crashing there while enrolling at Columbia before going to the MBA program because I just wanted to like, dip my feet back in the education waters, you know, I didn't really know if it was for me. And I will never forget this to the day that I actually reached out to the professor recently and I thanked him for it. But I cross registered at Columbia Business School for this class called Launching New Ventures. It's part of the MBA program and it's kind of like an education version of a startup accelerator, if you will. And I met with this professor one on one in his office hours. And so this guy was pretty legit. He went to Princeton undergrad, Harvard grad, to get his jd, was teaching at Columbia Business School on an adjunct basis while also running a startup that got acquired by Amazon. It's like, pretty legit guy. And so I go to him and I meet him one on one of his office hours. And I said, bill, listen man, I'm on the fence. I'm on the fence. I don't know if I want to get my mba. We both know it's like very, very, very expensive. And I'm paying for it myself. And so I don't know if I want to invest that money there to get an MBA or, or if I take that money and I go this way and launch a business. And this guy responded back to me without like blinking an eye. He goes, michael, off the record, you can never tell anyone I've ever told you this, because I'm just gonna deny it. Don't get your mba. Take that money. Build a business partner with Someone to launch something. You're gonna learn way more and meet way more people than you ever would in the classroom. And so about a week to two weeks after that instance, I called up my current co founder Time, like, hey, I've got some money saved up. Like, let's do this thing. We were also coincidentally talking about launching something together. And so this is the December of 2015. Yeah, nine years ago. And then in January, we ended up, like, incorporating the business and doing all that stuff and just, you know, dove into the deep end.
- [05:43]
Courtney Johnson
Wow. Yeah, a lot of people ask me about that too, of, you know, do you think education is valuable, needed for entrepreneurship? But honestly, getting your reps in of actually creating shit and actually shipping shit is the only thing that matters.
- [06:00]
Michael Rangel
It's the only thing that matters that it's like, how you say, getting your reps. I mean, I. I always say it's. It's all about shots on goal. The reason why I like the concept of shots on goal is because you still have to make the goal. Right? Like, you still have to make the goal, you still have to take the shot, but you still that. That the ball has to go into the goal. Most of the time it won't go in the goal, but you will never be able to get it in the goal unless you keep doing the reps or taking the shots so that you're able to calibrate your brain, your muscles, your discipline, your work ethic, whatever it may be, so that you have more precision and more of your shots go toward the goal.
- [06:41]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Where I feel like school sometimes can be. You're learning theories about physiology of how to shoot a ball. And you're learning like great people that shot balls, and you're learning, like, the hoop dynamics, but you're not actually practicing shots on goal.
- [06:57]
Michael Rangel
Yep. Or the, you know, to get to your theories. Right. Like, what is the four Ps of marketing? Like, when was the last time that was relevant? Probably like the 80s.
- [07:09]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I don't know. Those four Ps of marketing, I don't.
- [07:12]
Michael Rangel
Even remember them, but I'm pretty sure there is, like, the four Ps of marketing is what I learned in college. But, like, even it's funny, and maybe we can use this as that segue. But, like, you came on my radar actually a pretty long time ago, and it's pretty serendipitous. And it was actually one of the coolest, like, experiences ever. Watching your, you know, content and the way that you produce videos and the way that you've grown You've already learned way more than you would have ever learned in college or any sort of, you know, formal educational institution just by, you know, doing the reps, as you say. Or maybe. Maybe you could just teach classes. Courtney.
- [07:56]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I didn't learn shit in college, and I definitely would not go back further education. Like, no, I don't. It's way more helpful to actually do the thing. But I do see a pattern of people who are highly intellectual. They. They. They're trying to check all the boxes. They're trying to do all the right things to guarantee success and that. I don't know, we're going into a new world where that just does not matter. Like, action is the only thing that matters. Which brings me to my next question. I'm very curious about this. Is this your first venture? Why? Okay. Did you have any, like, fake ventures? Like, you sold, like, gummy bears in middle school or.
- [08:30]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, sure, I had a bunch of those. Like, back when I was a little. Had businesses. I had my first venture by. By that definition then would be when I was 11 or 12 years old and my dad brought home a pressure cleaner to the house. And I didn't even know what it was, but I was just like. I saw him, like, pressure cleaning the driveway one day, and I'm like, hey, can I use that? And my dad's like, what are you. What are you gonna do with this? You know? And then I created. I forgot what the name is. I should actually look it up. But I created this, like, business in my neighborhood where I would go door to door and I would pressure clean people's driveways or patios or pool decks and stuff like that. I guess that was the first time I started cutting my teeth on entrepreneurship. But Novo would be my first, like, more formal, definitely my first venture. Back to venture.
- [09:26]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I find that pattern with entrepreneurs that typically there's something that they were. They were getting their reps in since they were a child of even. I'm sure you. You went door to door and were, like, dealing with rejection and learning about learning such valuable skills just by pressure washing.
- [09:41]
Michael Rangel
Yep, totally. Rejection and failure. I mean, I guess they're related, right? But it's definitely one of the biggest ways you learn as a human.
- [09:51]
Courtney Johnson
What other ways have you had that rejection exposure?
- [09:57]
Michael Rangel
I mean, Novo just constantly, right? Like, for our series A very interesting story, but I'll give you kind of the Cliff Notes. Our series A. The business was ripping. This is back in 2021, early 2021. Business was ripping. But we had this kind of, like, massive, like, exogenous effects to the business where we were really growing a lot. However, when we were raising the money for that round, a lot of the venture investors were like, hey, well, this is. All this growth is due to this one thing, which is kind of like an outlier, and we can't really project that growth forward because it's all based on this one thing. And I was like, okay, but what does that. What does that mean? They're like, yeah, well, we're just going to pass. I got over a hundred passes, Courtney. A hundred passes.
- [10:47]
Courtney Johnson
How did you keep going?
- [10:48]
Michael Rangel
Don't think about that. It was really, really, really hard. I mean, my wife remembers me just looking raggedy and beaten, like, for weeks on end. It was a really, really hard time. But, like, this gets back to what you were saying on the cheat codes thing. Like, to be honest, I don't think there is really any cheat code in life, like, at all. It's like, hard work, and you just. You can't avoid it. Like, no matter freaking what, you can't. And it's just like, the faster you come to terms with, the only way forward is through. And you need to have persistence, otherwise you should just quit now. Like, that's it. Like, that is the only cheat code. That said, like, you still need to do the work.
- [11:43]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I mean, persistence is almost a guarantee because most people don't stick out the rejections. Like, most people would not stick out the rejections a hundred times. So, of course, like, it's inevitable that obviously you're probably optimizing along the way, too, because you're optimizing your pitch, you're optimizing your business, whatever, you're getting feedback, and that's also helping. And if you're showing up a hundred times, like, it's inevitable that that's going to. Cause you're putting in the work. It's inevitable that that's going to lead you to a good place for sure.
- [12:12]
Michael Rangel
I'm. This might sound creepy, but I. I think I just saw a TikTok review in the last week or so. Right. When you were talking about the stats on podcasts. Like, to be in the top 90% of podcasts, they don't get past, like, number three. Is that right?
- [12:30]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:31]
Michael Rangel
Top 90% after that is like the 20th or the 21st. Right. It's like the same thing. It's just shots on goal. Shots on goal, Shan, goal. I just keep pushing forward.
- [12:41]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. If you want to be in the top 0.01%, of podcasts, you have to have like 50 episodes, which is completely doable. That's doing something for a year. But that brings me into cheat codes. So you're saying cheat codes for life really don't exist? My definition of a cheat code is something somebody else learned and you passing along that information so they don't have to learn that lesson as hard. Right. They know when it's coming. Okay, so I see these more as like, informational cheat codes. And I've learned a lot from you by researching you, by seeing your materials, by reading stuff that you've written. And there's five cheat codes that stood out to me, so I want to go through them. And the first one is creating a company culture of transparency. I know you had some frustrations of organizations that you've been with in the past that didn't have that. How does that show up in your business? And how can other people create this culture of transparency?
- [13:34]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, that's. That's a great question. And I wouldn't even say that we've perfected that yet either. Right. But it's definitely the promise that I've always had is just being transparent. Because the way. And this is just both how I operate on a personal level as well as business. But like, if you're not transparent as a human, then it's like, well, you always have to look over your shoulder. You always have to be like, oh, what was that story that I told Corny that one time that I have to remember, otherwise I'm going to look like an idiot. Right. It was like, if I always lead with truth, with my truth, with the business truth, whether it's good, bad, or ugly, that's the truth of the matter. And so as it relates to business, it's like reporting performance all the time. Just like very openly and transparently, not trying to hide things or office keep things, or pretend things are fine when they might not be, or avoiding problems. I think that's also a big one. Where. And something I've learned by getting burned. You can't avoid being conflict avoidant leads to nightmares. And like, the sooner you confront it, the better, both for yourself as an individual, but also for those around you.
- [15:01]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's really powerful. And I just want to shout out your team, I think that you have a strong leadership of transparency that trickles down because I always feel super in the loop of what's on the product roadmap. Like, any assistance I need, like, your team just feels very transparent and upfront. So I do think that's permeated through your culture, which is really, really cool. So we have cheat code number two, and I think this is one of Novo's biggest differentiators, and that is building community with customers. I think community can be like a bullshit buzzword that people throw around. That doesn't mean anything. You guys have actually created community. Like, that's crazy.
- [15:41]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, it is. And it's been ingrained in our DNA since day one, which has been cool. Just, like, literally since day one. It was what it was super early on. Like, I still have relationships with some of, like, direct relationships with some of, like, our earliest of customers. I actually think. If you went to la, did you meet Jared Blitz? He was one of the other customers that were there. He's also been a Novo customer for five years, something like that, where I've gone on to conferences with them and there are a few others that we've just leveraged their products or services as well. There was another one who scheduled, like, one of our first company retreats, which is really cool. And, like, having, like, it been done by a customer. And then we're able to hear their story of how they have come to be, how they interact with the novel product, how we can make it better for them as well. And it's. I always try to, like, position it in a way where it's like, hey, we are all partners in this. We are trying to do right by you, you do right by us, et cetera. But we're trying to push each other forward. And, yeah, it's always been something that we. That we've wanted to lean into.
- [16:54]
Courtney Johnson
It's really powerful and something very tactical that the listeners can take into their business that Novo is doing right now. A couple of months into my journey with Novo, somebody reached out to me. I honestly forget her name, but we just had a conversation. She just wanted to know about my business and what I liked about Novo and what I didn't like and what features I wanted to see just a very casual conversation. And that was so powerful, just to see that you care. Right. And so I think anyone listening to this, like, ask yourself, are you having these conversations with your customers that are outside of just, like, selling or asking, like, truly getting to know them? That's extremely powerful. It's really cool that y'all have that in place.
- [17:38]
Michael Rangel
Yeah. The power of the human connection is can it just cannot be discounted. Even with AI, even with all these digital tools, even with all of that stuff. Human connection is a superpower, and it will only continue to become more in vogue as things become more digital, for sure.
- [17:57]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I mean, our bodies were evolutionarily wired for it. And I think people forget that. It's very, very hard for people to connect emotionally with a brand. It takes millions of dollars. It takes extreme repetition. It takes a huge strategic advertising marketing budget. But connecting with a human happens for free in an instant because we are biologically wired that way. So the more human connection you can create, it is worth so, so much more marketing dollars. Truly. Truly. Okay, our next cheat code is differentiation. This is something that you've mentioned is really important for Novo. You've really differentiated from existing narratives around other banking platforms. What does differentiation meant to you?
- [18:45]
Michael Rangel
Differentiation to me really means like confidently owning an identity.
- [18:55]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, confident.
- [18:57]
Michael Rangel
Say it is yours and hopefully that will also be unique. And I'm saying this more like it's applicable to business, but also just on an individual level as well, like someone's personality or what have you. But from like a business perspective, it's like, where is your niche in the market? Where is that? How do you articulate that? And how do you service that customer or that customer set better than anyone else? And then if you're able to genuinely convey that and own that identity, that is what I, I believe to be, you know, differentiation. Instead of a bunch of fancy words saying you're effectively the same thing just with different words. Lipstick on a pig. Right. Like, I see those as two very, very different things.
- [19:50]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I think that comes a lot from people too. And your company culture, that is. I. I don't think we talk about enough how your people are reflected. They are mirrors of your brand. And people are seeing not just the brand, but the reflection of your people. And that is in the messaging, that is in how you're communicating, that is in the customer service, in the journey, in the experience. And yeah, I think that goes back to your focus on, again, culture and communication and transparency and community building. We have cheat code number four, leaving your ego behind. So going back to shots on goal, leaving your ego behind. Learn from every encounter and you'll be surprised how far you get. Ooh, the ego. That's hard.
- [20:33]
Michael Rangel
The ego's is one of the hardest things. But the flip side of that coin is bringing your ego anywhere is also one of the most dangerous things. The ego makes people do bad things. Whenever you hear about greed and all this stuff, the driving engine to any of that stuff is ego. I want to keep up with the Joneses and therefore I need to do X, Y and Z in order to do it. Right. Like, it's all ego driven. And so the way I position myself is like, I. I don't really have an ego in the fight. I want what's best for the business and in effect, what's best for our customers. Right. I try to kind of like anchor people away from ego, individual, kind of like opinion and more toward truth seeking. What is the truth? In the world of truth, there is no ego because it's the truth. Right. Is this black or white? Is this the truth or is this not the truth? Right. And so, like, that's what. One of the things that I've been trying to do ever since we started Nova, right? It's like it's all about the truth, right. I don't care if our logo is blue, purple, pink, or rainbow. Right? Like, what is the truth that our customers want it to be? And how do we know that from data from conversations from focus groups or what have you. Right. And so, yeah, I don't know if.
- [22:02]
Courtney Johnson
That makes sense, but yeah, it does. So how, how do you deal with your ego specifically? Like, let's say somebody gives you a piece of really hard feedback and you're kind of taking an ego hit and you kind of want to be defensive, but you know that this is true. Like, do you have any steps that you take or is it just kind of sitting with the uncomfortable feeling?
- [22:21]
Michael Rangel
I love feedback. Feedback is what, it's what got me here. Right. And it's what will push me to get to where I want to be tomorrow, or we want the business to be tomorrow. That said, feedback isn't always good or comfortable. And I don't want to take this down that rabbit hole, which is kind of like my own personal story that'll be for another podcast, another day. But I have a pretty crazy personal story that kind of like colors this in what I'm about to tell.
- [22:53]
Courtney Johnson
Can you give us the spark notes?
- [22:55]
Michael Rangel
The TLDR of my personal story, instead of like making this fully about that, is back in 2011. So around 13 and a half years ago, I went on a great ski trip with my best friends out in Beaver Creek, Colorado. We were on the way back to the airport from Beaver Creek to fly back home. It was Martin Luther King weekend. So it was a three day weekend. I was supposed to fly back, take the red eye, and be at my desk in Miami on Tuesday morning. Right. The typical drive between Beaver Creek and Denver is about two hours, ish. That day is like the worst blizzard, like on record for, like, ever. And so we were in the Car for about six hours and we still hadn't arrived at the airport. We were within like 15 minutes from the airport where we got into really, really, really, really, really, really, really bad car accident. We were in the left lane, right? There was a car in the middle lane. Car in the middle lane, tried merging to the lane next to them. Looked over their shoulders, saw there's a car there. Corrected back to the middle lane. There was ice in the roads. They spun out of control. One perpendicular to the back of our car. We're in the left lane. So the median was here. Smashed up against the median that launched into the air for two full revolutions. My best friend and roommate at the time is in the front passenger seat. He was not wearing a seatbelt. He was ejected through the trunk and died on impact. I was in the back right passenger seat. I was wearing my seat belt. However, I broke through my seatbelt on one of the revolutions and was ejected through the back right passenger seat window and flew for about 30ft before I made contact with the road. I sustained a severe grade on the Glasgow Coma Scale. I had to relearn how to walk, eat and talk. It was insane to. But we'll leave it at that. No, that'll be like this work fast forward. Hurrah. It was like a beyond a miracle. All the doctors said that I was going to be vegetable for the rest of my life, that I would never be able to do anything. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, you know, go pound sand. I'm going to be better than I ever was before. Just watch, right? Anyways, the reason why I even got to that was because you said, well, how do you deal with feedback even when it makes you uncomfortable? Here is another cheat code. Discomfort is not bad when you are uncomfortable. That is gold. You might not realize it in the moment, obviously, right? Because in the moment you're like, oh my God, I want to be anywhere but here. Right? But like, the discomfort is what you need as a human to take you to the next level. I actually have a trivia question for you, Courtney.
- [25:46]
Courtney Johnson
Okay.
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Michael Rangel
Do you know how lobsters grow?
- [25:53]
Courtney Johnson
I do not know how they grow.
- [25:56]
Michael Rangel
Interesting.
- [25:57]
Courtney Johnson
How do they grow?
- [26:00]
Michael Rangel
The lobster is obviously the squishy little animal inside, right? Lobster shells, the large encasing do not grow with the little squishy animal inside the lobster on the inside. It grows to the point where it becomes so uncomfortable that it can no longer grow. Otherwise the shell would break or the squishy thing would die. So what do they do? They have to leave the shell they have to leave the shell and expose themselves and be incredibly vulnerable. Like, effectively, anything could kill them when they're outside of their shell. If the hide under rocks they have, literally anything could kill them. But they have to protect themselves until their bigger, badder, better shell grows back. And they do that about. I think it's like two to three times in their life or something like that. Don't quote me on that, but ever. Whenever I've heard that, like, probably 10 years ago, I'm like, wow, that is the most insane. That, like, that is insane growth, you know? And so, like, that. That's the only way you grow is through discomfort.
- [27:18]
Courtney Johnson
Wow, that's a powerful story. Both the lobsters and your car accident. I feel like being in that much pain and having your life change that much to where people are telling you that you will never do anything again is truly the ultimate ego death. So little ego hits probably don't hurt that much for you.
- [27:37]
Michael Rangel
Exactly. Like, it was like a blink of an eye. Like, I was high flying in finance. I was doing great. I was making great money. I was at the forefront of, like, my peer set in school. And then literally, to no fault of my own, I did nothing wrong. My eyes open 11 days after I was in a car and I'm in a hospital.
- [28:02]
Courtney Johnson
Wow.
- [28:04]
Michael Rangel
I can't.
- [28:04]
Courtney Johnson
How long did the recovery take?
- [28:06]
Michael Rangel
I mean, I was in the hospital in Denver for a month, and then I was in outpatient therapy for six months thereafter. Damn, this is a wild, wild, wild.
- [28:19]
Courtney Johnson
That's crazy. Yeah. I always tell people to microdose discomfort, but you. You macrodosed that shit.
- [28:24]
Michael Rangel
No, that was. Yeah, that was like a super macrodose. But to be honest, like, you know, people always say how it was obviously incredibly, incredibly, incredibly unlucky, but the perspective I have because of it, it's almost a competitive advantage, to be honest.
- [28:46]
Courtney Johnson
How so?
- [28:47]
Michael Rangel
Well, I like to have the term you use the macro dose of discomfort.
- [28:52]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [28:52]
Michael Rangel
Like, imagine like, I will go further than anyone who micro does his discomfort.
- [28:59]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [28:59]
Michael Rangel
Just because I know how much further I can go.
- [29:03]
Courtney Johnson
I look at discomfort and pain as like roots to a tree. And the more you can go deeper into the ground, the higher you can grow on top. And so the more. Yeah. Discomfort hits, you can feel more.
- [29:15]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, I agree with the pain thing too. Yeah.
- [29:18]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I don't know, it almost, like, strengthens. It strengthens you. Okay, we have cheat code number five. Relieving on a fun one. I love this cheat code. And this is a cheat code that you gave to young People that are maybe starting their career and that is to optimize for learning and exposure to the world rather than just a paycheck. Why, why do you think they should do that?
- [29:42]
Michael Rangel
I think, I mean, I think so many things, right. Like I think to tie back to what we were talking about before with education. Right? Right. Like education, like the way, the way formal education wires people is to aim for a very linear life. Linear lives might have been more of the norm in the 1900s, right. You graduate college, you get a job, you stay at the job for 30, 40 years and then you're talk very linear. You've probably got a bunch of promotions. But like fast forward to now, especially with what you do, right? You wear many hats. That's very non linear in so many different ways. You're having to also educate yourself in so many ways the formal education would have never been able to do. But formal education kind of predisposes us to this kind of linear path. The reason why I say you have to optimize for exposure to the world, whether that be industry, whether that, that be job, whether that be people, whether that be geography, is because that's the only way you are going to get non linear results. I don't like linear stories for the most part. Right. That's why I love meeting Novo customers, because Novo customers all have one thing in common. They're all incredibly different, but a lot of them, most of them, I'd probably say 95, maybe 99% of them have non linear stories. What led them from when, where they grew up to school, to what they're doing now. Right. Usually there's like a bunch of like pain and problems, right. That led from one thing to the next. Right. And then they've kind of found like their passion or whatever they're currently working on, which is like very non linear. Like we've, I've spoken to people that were like on Wall street before and then now they're doing podcasts or they were, you know, a developer before and then they were doing like these creative cool corporate retreats and just like, well, how the like how does, how do those things connect? You know, like this is making sense. And so that's why I always like pulling the string on like what was that story that got you, the person, the business owner to give this like herculean lift of like my past, where I was educated, whatever that was, whether that helped me or not, right. It's on the business owner that connects their past to their present to their future. And like I think that is the most admirable thing like, that exists on the planet. And so the only way that you're going to be able to be more equipped to handle that is by getting exposure through experiences and all that stuff. So that was that cheat code.
- [32:43]
Courtney Johnson
That's amazing. Incredible advice. I see so many young people that immediately optimize for money, and maybe they want to go work, like, as an engineer at a faang company or something. And that's great and awesome and cool experience. But the problem that I'm seeing as people are coming out of that maybe, like, five years after, maybe they want to start something, is they're very siloed in their knowledge. They have this one thing that they're very good at and went very deep on, but they're. It's almost like their video game character level on that one thing. And in extremely, extremely specific is like a 100 and everything else is at a zero. So when they try to go out on their own, it's really overwhelming. It's really hard. Or if they try to do something outside of the norm. So I think that's so important to get it. Just get weird experience. Be weird. Like, take every weird opportunity. Like, go. I started my career as a NFL and a hockey cheerleader. Like, what?
- [33:41]
Michael Rangel
What? Are you serious? Yeah, nonlinear.
- [33:46]
Courtney Johnson
See, they're very nonlinear. That's looking back, because I'm like, oh, I was, like, on camera and talking and whatever. But, yeah, that's incredible advice. Well, thank you, Michael, for being here. Also, if you guys want to sign up for Novo, I have a code. Courtney Johnson, five. You'll get $40. Thanks, Michael's team, for that benefit. And listen, I think I've probably made, like, a few hundred dollars from these referrals. Everybody loves novo. Anyways, Courtney Johnson, 5. But thank you, Michael, for coming on. Where can people find you? Or what are you. What are you working on right now?
- [34:25]
Michael Rangel
Like, yeah, I think the. The main place people can find me. I mean, I'm. I'm literally trying. I'm starting to build more of my social presence as we speak.
- [34:35]
Courtney Johnson
I literally was gonna ask you that. I'm like, where. We'll talk after. We'll talk after this. Because that's an amazing story. You have amazing advice. Where's the personal brand, Michael?
- [34:45]
Michael Rangel
Yeah, plus one. Plus one. But right now, the main place where I'm at is LinkedIn.
- [34:50]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, Michael Rangel, LinkedIn. Go give him a follow. Okay, y'all, if you like this episode, you would love. Love my Patreon. Okay, you get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources and a lot of juicy shit. Okay? So I hope to see you on my Patreon. It.