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- [00:04]
Courtney Johnson
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I am here to un gatekeep the gatekept. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy, y'all.
- [00:16]
Keisha Slaughter
I want to share a little bit about Intuition University. If you want to learn how to stop second guessing and finally trust your.
- [00:24]
Courtney Johnson
Gut and finally create the life you.
- [00:27]
Keisha Slaughter
Actually want, Intuition University is for you. A good friend of mine, Keisha Slaughter, put together this amazing, incredible course. I've taken it. It has personally impacted my life so, so much. Intuition University helps you stop overthinking and trust your decisions with confidence. It helps you heal your trauma and limiting beliefs that are keeping you stuck. By the way, the best way to manifest, the only way to manifest is to heal the limiting beliefs.
- [00:55]
Courtney Johnson
Okay?
- [00:56]
Keisha Slaughter
You already have everything inside of you in order to accomplish your dreams. You already have it all. It's not about gaining anything. It's about stripping away the limiting beliefs.
- [01:07]
Courtney Johnson
That are keeping you stuck.
- [01:08]
Keisha Slaughter
Intuition University helps you align with your soul's purpose and live in flow. It feels so good to live in flow. It feels so good to get rid of that resistance. Intuition University helps you tap into higher levels of consciousness to manifest anything you desire. It helps you create a career relationship in life that feels right for you without the second guessing. Intuition University opens for enrollment October 11th and closes October 31st, so make sure you sign up before the end of October. Again, I cannot recommend this enough. Keisha is just an incredible, incredible woman. Her work has been extremely impactful and.
- [01:51]
Courtney Johnson
Influential in my own life.
- [01:53]
Keisha Slaughter
And if you want to go one step deeper with your manifestation, with your content creation, with your dream building, this.
- [02:00]
Courtney Johnson
Is the perfect way to do it.
- [02:02]
Keisha Slaughter
You can find info for the course@casaslaughter.com intuition-university I'll put it in the show notes, but spelled out, it's K A.
- [02:12]
Courtney Johnson
I S H A S L A.
- [02:15]
Keisha Slaughter
U G h t e r.com intuition d-university you can find Kaisha on Instagram and TikTok aishaslaughter K A I s H a slaughter I am so excited for you guys to experience Keisha's magic at Intuition university.
- [02:34]
Kelsey
Again.
- [02:34]
Keisha Slaughter
That's keishaslaughter.com Intuition University.
- [02:42]
Courtney Johnson
Guys, Kelsey is my manager, aka Momager. So Kelsey, thanks for coming on the podcast.
- [02:50]
Kelsey
I am so honored to be here. It's so fun to see my girly and her whole ordeal and kind of see it firsthand. Thank you for having me.
- [02:59]
Courtney Johnson
Well, guys, to truly un gatekeep, the reason why I found Kelsey is Because I posted this TikTok video that said, here's how much I made in 2023 as a content creator, and I totaled up all my brand deals that I'd made in a year. And at this point, I probably had like 60,000 followers on TikTok, like, pretty solid following. And I think the total brand deals I had done was $4,000 in brand deals in a year with 60,000 followers. Like, if you know anything about brand deals, how you should be charging, that is nothing. And so my friend Eleanor texted me the video and she was like, in nice words, what the fuck are you doing, Courtney?
- [03:42]
Kelsey
She also texted it to me, shout.
- [03:45]
Courtney Johnson
Out, Eleanor, what did you think about that?
- [03:47]
Kelsey
She said something of like, I've never met this girl before, but this is kind of insane. I feel like you should reach out.
- [03:53]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, yeah. So that was 2023. We started working together in January 2024.
- [03:59]
Kelsey
Yep.
- [03:59]
Courtney Johnson
And can I. Can I share my numbers? Is that allowed to ungatekeep? Okay, so this is. This is how much money I've made from brand partnerships in 2024 so far. And it's October, so this is 10.
- [04:10]
Kelsey
Months Q1 through Q3, essentially. Yeah.
- [04:14]
Courtney Johnson
All right. Oh, actually, our first brand deal didn't happen until February. So February to Now is like nine months. $107,250 from Brand Deals with a 21,450 agency fee, so around $85,000. Take home for me.
- [04:34]
Kelsey
Slayer. She's killing it. Should we talk about, like, a little bit of how that works?
- [04:39]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Fucking crazy. I never thought that that was possible at all. I was just doing it all wrong. And I know you have people on your team that are kind of budding influencers. Content creators have maybe less than, like, 10,000. Less than 20,000 followers that are making around this much money, too.
- [04:57]
Kelsey
Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, one of the main things, which I know we're going to get into a lot of these, but, like, what I hear from every single creator is always, I hate negotiating on my own behalf. And nobody likes it. Like, if you. It's even like, if you think about when you're trying to ask for, like, what your salary should be. And like, the dreaded question in any interview where they're like, so, like, last question before you go, like, what are we thinking for salary? And everyone's like, and it's like, if you're emailing back and forth to work with a brand, even if you have 150,000 followers, like, you have no idea what you should be charging. So you just kind of throw something out and see what sticks. And that's kind of the main thing of, like, you're probably undercharging if you're not working with a management team or an assistant or someone that's helping you or even someone who can help negotiate on your behalf that, like, can be pseudo on your team because, like, it's the hardest thing ever to know what your worth is. And like, that's, as you just said, kind of where I came in.
- [05:53]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I think there's a lot of emotion attached to negotiating things where you don't necessarily. I don't know when you take the emotion out because, like, if you have somebody else helping you negotiate, they're not feeling the emotion, they're not feeling your limiting beliefs, they're not feeling all of that. They're having a completely objective perspective. And also they're seeing like, okay, this brand. Like, you have the inside information of like, knowing brands that have worked with other creators. You know, like, if they're a B2B brand, maybe they have a bigger budget, you know, like around their revenue. So, like, how much they're probably investing because you've been on the other side of it.
- [06:26]
Kelsey
Yeah, I mean, it's also exactly what you said. Like, industry is a huge thing. Like, obviously you and I work with a lot of tech, B2B SaaS companies. Whereas, like retail, fashion, totally different ball game. Food and cpg, completely different ballgame. But yeah, it's kind of like the insider knowledge of knowing which industries, which companies, which brands, like, what their budgets are, like comparing and knowing what other creators are making, which is like another thing of like, in the creator economy. I think a lot of influencers are better at it now of like pay transparency. And as you did literally the video, I found you of saying, like, how much you made, how much a brand paid you. I mean, there's websites for that I won't mention because I would not recommend visiting those.
- [07:08]
Courtney Johnson
But why not?
- [07:10]
Kelsey
Like, there's the one f you pay me that I'm sure a lot of people have heard of. I mean, it is transparent, but it's also like, take it with a grain of salt because you don't really know, like, how many followers did the creator have? What was their brief, what were their deliverables and usage? It doesn't share a lot of like the nitty gritty. So it's very kind of like an umbrella statement of like, what a brand is like to work with, if that makes sense.
- [07:34]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, there are a Lot more nuances. Like, sure, they may have had 5,000 followers and been paid a thousand dollars. What was that from? One video, 10 videos, one platform. Multiple platforms.
- [07:46]
Kelsey
Yeah.
- [07:46]
Courtney Johnson
Static image, like, yeah, story. It's all different. But actually I want to get into some cheat codes and my first cheat code is to do research in non public places. So find yourself Facebook groups, slack groups, content creator groups, maybe take some courses or classes around working with brands, plug into those networks. But you're not going to find a lot of information just by googling. Tap into like the one level deeper and you're gonna at least be inspired by like, oh shit, they're working with these brands, getting some inside information. Because this is kind of like a inside information game.
- [08:26]
Kelsey
Totally. I think like, also we're blessed in Austin because the creator community is so large but also like so tight knit that everyone is like, I know there's multiple groups and like text groups and what have you of girls sharing like, hey, like we just finished F1 here in Austin this weekend. Huge weekend for content creation and people were sharing like, hey, I'm going with X brand. Is anyone else going with them? Or like, hey, I heard about this after party with Jack Daniels. Is anyone else going to that? And it's kind of like the group think is actually super positive here. And I think we're very blessed to live in a city where like the creator economy is so open and not as like secrets being held as it might be in other bigger cities.
- [09:10]
Courtney Johnson
I've definitely felt that way. It's not competitive and not gatekeepy. Like people tell you who they've worked with. Like, they'll tell you how much they're making. They'll give you an intro. If you want an intro. Like, obviously treat it like any relationship or you want to make sure that you're having an equal value exchange and you're helping them out too. But people are genuinely so positive. It's. It's amazing. Um, but yeah, also I've been invited to so many events, like not as an influencer, but as other influencers plus ones and like gotten intros to brand that way, brands that way. All right, Kelsey, we have your cheat codes that you sent to me and I love these cheat codes. They're so sneaky.
- [09:48]
Kelsey
Let's get to it.
- [09:49]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, cheat code number one, be authentic, because brands can fish out the cheese easily. Tell me what this means.
- [09:56]
Kelsey
Okay, I just need to preface saying, like, I know it's so cliche to say be authentic, be authentic, be yourself. But like, truly, it really Comes down to, and I should preface also saying like I've been on the brand side so I know how it works. Kind of on both ends. A little bit of my secret sauce, if you will. But like I said, brands can fish out when it's cheesy. Here's an example. If you are just pushing product all day long and it's clear that like, hey, did this girl really use this hair supplement? Like I think she has extensions. Or like why is she partnering with this gluten free brand? Like I think she doesn't even eat that way. Or like things like that that are so obvious but it can even be as nuanced as like you are sharing products and really all people want to do is like see about your daily life or all you share is like your home. But people want to know like what are you doing in the day to day with like your friends? But you're really only trying to niche down. I think that's when it gets really hard, when brands are searching for creators to work with and they want to feel like they can be integrated super seamlessly into their life, which happens to be their content. So if your content is more of like for show rather than just your authentic everyday self, it's super obvious.
- [11:14]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. My best tip for being authentic on social media is to lean into your emotion. So if you're feeling super emotional about something, maybe you're really, really excited because this new restaurant came to town or you're really frustrated because you saw that article and it's something you disagree with. Like, like lean into those emotions because that emotion can guide your content and you can start to notice your emotions and capture that and be like, oh, I'm so frustrated about this announcement. I'm going to post about it. I had this amazing experience. I'm feeling so inspired. I'm going to post about it because people really relate to emotion and I think that's where, and I think that's where a lot of content creators go wrong when they're not being authentic is they're trying to be like perfect or neutral rather than just like being themselves.
- [11:55]
Kelsey
You know, and it doesn't all have to be positive.
- [11:57]
Courtney Johnson
Do you think that there's industries that are better to work with than others or ones that pay more and you should like lean into.
- [12:04]
Kelsey
I mean it obviously depends on like what your content is.
- [12:07]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. So like, but any, any like untapped markets that have big budgets and not a lot of creators.
- [12:12]
Kelsey
I think, I mean the most untapped market is tech and software. And it's not just siloed to the entrepreneur, content and the finance people. And like just it is something that if you can find the right nugget of a brand or company that fits within your content. Like every single content creator could work with a social media management company. Yeah, like we love, we love planoly, we love working with them. There's so many other ones that are like planning out your content, scheduling content out. Like you do that all day long. Video editing softwares, like what if you could work with Capcut or Canva and like these are things that creators use all day, every day. Like every creator can tap into the tech industry. And I think that that's like the most underrated and underutilized in creator marketing. And typically the brands who are partnering with creators are new to it and they probably just got new approval from the marketing department to expand their budget into influencer marketing. So it's new to them and they probably have healthy budgets.
- [13:16]
Courtney Johnson
So that is great.
- [13:17]
Kelsey
UN gatekeeping that.
- [13:18]
Courtney Johnson
UN gatekeeping, yes. So I know it's a pretty basic tip to be like, oh, go through your closet and look at the brands, go through your makeup table and look at the brands you're already using. Yes, that's a great tip. But also go through your tools like you're saying Capcut, Canva. I just did a brand partnership with Opus Clip, which I talk about all the time organically.
- [13:37]
Kelsey
Even things that aren't as sexy, like your taxes. Yeah, I just did a great campaign with TurboTax. Like would never think of that. But guess what content creators, we're all entrepreneurs. Yeah, we're doing self employed taxes. That's not sexy. But we all have to do it.
- [13:52]
Courtney Johnson
There's so many unsexy things that go on in your business. Maybe, maybe that's also like a project management software. Maybe that's ClickUp, maybe that's Zapier. Maybe that's like any of those things that you're also using in your business. I also just did a brand partnership with a influencer marketing search platform. So that's similar too. Which that'll come out soon. Yeah, that's really helpful. So actually before we get into our next cheat code, you've been on the other side of things. How do brands find influencers? Let's say I am ClickUp, a project management tool looking for influencers. Where, where does a brand even start doing that?
- [14:30]
Kelsey
I would say it's like 70, 30. So on one side, 70%. And this is my experience. I come from an agency advertising Agency marketing background, where brands were my clients. I was developing influencer campaign strategies, building the campaign decks and then building out those talent list recommendations. So I would say 70% of that research typically comes from whatever influencer management and influencer search platform that brand or agency is using. I mean there's tons of them that are, you know, you have hootsuite, you have influential, you have paid, you have tagger. Like there's so many. And that's where we start a lot of the research phase. And that is something like creators don't have to opt into it. You're probably already on there because somebody has either put you on there or they're automatically scraping from all the platforms third party data.
- [15:23]
Courtney Johnson
What type of queries do they put in?
- [15:25]
Kelsey
Yeah, so you would be like, okay, let's say we're running a campaign for Nike women's apparel. You can put a tag that's women and then age 20 to 30, you could do a tag that is like they can even scrape the content of your metadata. So they know like Courtney posts about running, Courtney posts about activewear and like you can toggle those on. And that's how they can find creators in like a really niche demographic, essentially even like down to like the city. And then so that's probably, I would say like 70% typically. And then the other 30% was always like people on my team or like internally at the brand being like, I follow this creator, they'd be perfect. Or you're just searching through Instagram and like I remember I used to do you search through Instagram on. Well now you can do it on mobile, but it used to only be on desktop, where if you go to someone's profile on Instagram and then it gives you kind of like the dropdown and you can see like similar profiles, you know what I mean? And so you could search that way of like, this girl would be perfect for this campaign. And you can drop down and look at similar suggested profiles that are in the same kind of niche of content creator and you can build it that way. So I'd say it's like 70% research and 30% organic on platform or just like referral.
- [16:42]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I've had a lot of people reach out that have been like, oh, I, I already follow you and I already see your stuff. So important for creators to know. Make sure your metadata has keywords that people are searching. So that might be your bio that would be turning your subtitles on, making sure you have captions that have keywords using hashtags relevant to your industry, which, if you're a content creator, you're probably already doing these things. But just a good reminder, I love.
- [17:04]
Kelsey
That you called out the bio, because I feel like that's something that for a while there, it really, really mattered, and then it didn't really matter and people were just putting like a smiley face emoji in their city and that was it. Cause it was, like, cute and trendy. And now I would say having your bio optimized is like major, major key. Like your city, your email. Like, put your email in the little button and in the bio. Have like a little tagline. Even if it's like four words of kind of what you talk about or what you focus on. Like, what's your content niche if you have one, because those are all searchable.
- [17:36]
Courtney Johnson
This is inspiring me to update my bio because I don't think it has all of that. I need to add it.
- [17:42]
Kelsey
They only give you so many characters too, which is hard, but okay.
- [17:45]
Courtney Johnson
So you got to optimize those characters for sure. Okay. Cheat code number two. Use the lens of a consumer. Create content that you would want to see what would influence you to purchase a specific product or service. Think about what's influenced you to try a new brand. That's good. That's like understanding your own behavior.
- [18:05]
Kelsey
So I'm talking this, like, purely organic content. Like, when you go to create content for the day, if you're doing like three posts a day, one of them should just be, like, some product service, software idea that you love and utilize daily. And like, think about how to present that in a way that if you're just mindlessly scrolling when you're going to bed at night and you see something and you're like, I really want to buy that T shirt, or like, that's a good idea. I should start looking into that. You new meditation app. Like, what was the video that compelled you to feel that way? And it's probably a. Not the brand saying it. It's probably a creator or just a normal Joe Schmo on her TikTok saying it of like, I love this brand. Here's why. Like, look at me wearing it or using it or applying it into my daily life. And it inspires you, whether you consciously think about it or not, to remember that brand. And so when you're creating content organically and hopefully when it's branded content, they allow you that kind of creative freedom to make it seamlessly feel that way, because that's the content that converts, whether it's for a Paid campaign or just your organic content.
- [19:13]
Courtney Johnson
That's so good. So identify your own consumption patterns and recreate those in the content that you're creating.
- [19:20]
Kelsey
Think like a consumer. I mean, obviously I think step one would be like, consume the platform that you're on, which I think most creators, myself included, do a little bit too much. But like, you know how TikTok like works, you know how Instagram works, you know how LinkedIn works. Like, you know what you're compelled to. It's like consume the content and think like a consumer.
- [19:40]
Courtney Johnson
I have a side question. How do you feel about being brand friendly? Because I, I'm sure you've seen people overdo it. Like overdo being so prim and proper and I'm like, that's not real.
- [19:50]
Kelsey
Yes. I've been on both sides of it. I have experience both sides of it. Which this is a great question. I would say as long as you're being yourself and you're not being like too problematic, it's fine. But also like the, the creators that are sometimes really problematic or lean like really, really heavy into the trolls, as we like to call them, sometimes brands are like kind of into that. There are certain ones that like, they either don't care or they kind of want to fluff up. They're like, we're kind of edgy. Like, we work with this creator because even if she says things that are a little bit off the rails, maybe he or she is like super good at getting that engagement. It probably works. They like using their trolls or they like having controversial opinions or speaking their mind. And brands will kind of try to leverage that to either get reach engagement conversions because like, they know this creator works. But like, if your content and your platform is super prim and proper and like that's not you goes back to kind of our first cheat code of like, that's not authentic.
- [20:54]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [20:54]
Kelsey
But like, if you're going to be off the rails and that's how you are in real life, like, I guess you do you girl. But like, you kind of got to remember it's also, this is work.
- [21:02]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [21:02]
Kelsey
And it is your business. So like, do you want your business to be super edgy? Sure.
- [21:08]
Courtney Johnson
I don't think anyone listening to this is going to go so far to where no brands are going to want to work with them because any, even any like extreme on any side, like political podcast or something, they all have sponsors. Like, they, they still have sponsors. Or you think of someone super problematic that h had like a billion scandals.
- [21:25]
Kelsey
Like Trisha, Paytas, yeah.
- [21:27]
Courtney Johnson
Oh, everyone still loves her. Yeah. And she has sponsors, but I think it's because she's authentically herself. And again, taking the example of like an extreme political podcaster, that's super far one way. There's still gonna be brands that resonate with that and resonate with them. Maybe they don't have as many brands, but there's definitely. There's a target audience. As long as there's a target audience there, brands are gonna wanna work with you. Just maybe not as many brands or as big of a brand or just.
- [21:53]
Kelsey
An interesting niche or industry.
- [21:55]
Courtney Johnson
Go find who was recently hand sold and I'm sure they have brand deals. I was a ghostwriter. Spill the tea. Yeah. Such a. I was a ghostwriter for a very big New York City influencer, Fashion Girly. And she got like heavily canceled for some legal stuff that was really not good. And she had partnerships all the way through because I think her scandals kind of added to her lore, which made her gain followers, which made her more interesting from a brand perspective and like storytelling perspective. Yeah.
- [22:26]
Kelsey
As the tale as old as time. All press is good press. No PR is bad pr.
- [22:31]
Courtney Johnson
But I'm always afraid I'm like one video from getting canceled.
- [22:35]
Kelsey
Well, to an extent I came to.
- [22:37]
Courtney Johnson
Tread lightly, but I know I came really close with the rich friends versus bro friends video that got like 7 million views. And I, I keep privateing it and putting it back up. Cause I'm like, oh, it gets me so many followers. But man, people are really mad.
- [22:53]
Kelsey
But like there are people that agree.
- [22:55]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [22:56]
Kelsey
So like, I don't know, it works.
- [22:59]
Courtney Johnson
And listen, who's hiring me for these B2B partnerships? It's like the head of marketing is a tech bro and attack bro is going to watch that and be like.
- [23:06]
Kelsey
He'S like, yeah, I understand. Yeah, like I'm going to keep quiet. User 1679.
- [23:12]
Courtney Johnson
Okay. Cheat code number three. Flex your sales and cold outreach skills. Do not be afraid of rejection. DM Brands get their emails. 1 out of 100 is bound to lead to somewhere that's scary.
- [23:23]
Kelsey
This is like my number one to do list thing for every single creator I work with.
- [23:29]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:30]
Kelsey
If you don't have the like entrepreneurial spirit, not even that, but like the gung ho attitude to kind of like get out there and get that you want. Like, it's not going to work because like if, if you don't put yourself out there. It's the same thing with like dating friendships, like career, getting a promotion, a new job. Like you have to put yourself out there and you have to ask for what you want. It's not just going to come to you.
- [23:56]
Courtney Johnson
Right?
- [23:57]
Kelsey
Like, yes, some things will flutter into our inbox. And that's amazing and great and we love when that happens. But, like, you have to be able to just dm even if, like, I don't care if you have it, like, saved in your notes app and you're copy and pasting the same thing, catering it, like, by a couple words to a brand. But DMing brands, as simple as saying something like, this is like my number one tip. Like, say, hey, Waterloo, I would love to partner with you. I, I live in Austin. Like, you're my favorite local brand. Are you looking for any content creation? Are you casting for future campaigns? Can I send you my email? Boom. And if they say, yeah, here's pressaterloo.com, feel free to shout out to us, like, easy enough. Maybe they say no, but you send out 50 of those in a week, maybe three of them come back and you actually might be considered for the partnership coming up for the holiday season.
- [24:50]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I mean, that is a really high ROI because DMing a hundred brands, if you're using slightly different variations, maybe it would take an hour, an hour and a half, two hours tops. If you land one brand deal, that could be a few thousand dollars. Let's say it's $2,000. Like, you just, you just close the deal in two hours and made $2,000. Like, pretty good.
- [25:09]
Kelsey
And there's also, like, the difference between, obviously, as myself as a manager, a talent agent, like, we do a lot of outreach on behalf of creators, but it's such a different experience when the creator is like, planting the seed initially and then you can have your management team and it, it also kind of helps legitimize yourself as well as a creator of, like, you plant the seed because you genuinely love this brand rather than some random talent agent reaching out to a brand saying, like, hey, I represent Suzy. She'd love to work with you. Sometimes it works and it's great. Or we already have a connection or an in at the brand or agency that they're working with. But if it's coming directly from the creator initially, like, that is always a nice soft intro.
- [25:53]
Courtney Johnson
So, yeah, I will also say I've talked to a lot of other creators that, that say they don't want to be like a bother or they don't, they don't want to ask for too much. But the thing is, you're helping a brand if you are reaching out. Okay, I'll tell the story. I used to have a yoga mat company, Consumer Packaged Goods, and whenever creators would reach out to our Instagram and say, hey, I love your yoga mats, I would love for you to send me a yoga mat and I'll send you some pictures, I would be like, absolutely, hell yes. Absolutely. First of all, first of all, I don't even care how many followers I have. They saved me a half a day of shooting shit on my own. They've saved me so much time and it's going to add more credibility. Especially I was like a budding brand to have other people in it just besides my friends. I was like, oh my God, I'm creating legitimacy and you're saving me a ton of time and you're getting me content. And this is a really cool girl who's going to take that yoga mat to her yoga classes and other people are going to see it and be like, oh my God, where? Like, it was doing me a favor. So I think you need to reposition in your mind too that you are doing that brand a favor. Like, you are an influential person. You are a cool fucking girl. Like, people are influenced by you, you are helping them out.
- [26:57]
Kelsey
Yeah. And like, that's a great point on gifting also, like when brands are sending you gifts, they are hoping for like a very organic ROI on their end. Like obviously. And so if brands are gifting you things, like obviously, majority of the times it's no strings attached, you don't have to post content. But if you genuinely love the brand, especially if you reached out asking initially and they were like, no campaigns at the moment, but we'd love to send you something, like you should absolutely show the love. That's like my number one, like as like a nice in kind partner. Because if you want to work with them in the future, they want to see that whether you posted just an Instagram story, being like, thank you so much, look at this PR box I got. Like, that goes a long ways because then you actually have a soft intro to the brand rather than just like she accepted something. We didn't really hear much because like you said on the brand side, if they're sending stuff out as a gift or an in kind or in trade, they're hoping that there's something that comes out of it from kind of word of mouth across social media platforms. Right.
- [27:59]
Courtney Johnson
Also, it costs the brand almost nothing. They're sending you something at cost. They're not sending it to you for the retail value. For example, I reach out to Elemis and I'm like, can I be on your gifting list? Whatever. Can you send me this product? And it's like a 200 product they sent me that cost them like $10, $20 probably to send it to me. Gifting is so powerful because they're sending things at cost. Like it is a great business model for them. So instead of partnering with a hundred creators for a thousand dollars each, they're sending out a hundred creators, $20. It's costing them how much that $2,000 instead of a hundred thousand dollars for all the content, all the campaigns. And it could be just as effective. And you're right, it's such a great way to like start the partnership.
- [28:41]
Kelsey
Yeah, I love that.
- [28:42]
Courtney Johnson
Also add these people on LinkedIn. Add them on LinkedIn. Like, guys, I think LinkedIn ups your game as a creator because it makes you look like you're also like a social media consultant and a professional. Like you're coming on as a consultant rather than just a creator. And if you are being hired as a content creator, if you're being hired as an influencer on a campaign, they do expect you to be a consultant. Like they do expect you to come with your ideas and give your creativity. Like they're not just hiring you for your platform, they're hiring you because you are an expert in social media and they might not be in the way that you are. So lean into that other people on.
- [29:20]
Kelsey
LinkedIn and make sure that for content creators, which Courtney can obviously speak to this more. But like your job title on LinkedIn should be social media content creator. And then in the description like list, who you've worked with, which brands have you partnered with, share links to things. I mean, I'm sure you could get into a whole cheat code around that.
- [29:41]
Courtney Johnson
But yes, definitely add that in your LinkedIn. Even if you have a job, like a full time job and content creation is your side hustle, add it on your LinkedIn. Okay, cheat code number four. Know your worth. What specifically about you, your content and community attracts brands to work with you Think beyond metrics. Is it a special series you do that integrates with brand unique background, diversity, community, other platforms you tap into that is so good. So know your worth. How do you figure out those things that might be valuable to brands that you might not even know? Like what are some things that might be valuable to brands?
- [30:16]
Kelsey
Yeah, so this I guess kind of full circle goes back to what we first started talking about of creators when they start not knowing kind of what to price Themselves at. And that's like the biggest conversation. I feel like we could have a whole podcast on just the pricing model because there are so many more things at play than just your follower count, your engagement rate, your average views. Like, yes, like, we could talk CPM all day. A lot of brands try to do that, but it gets really hard. You get like funneled into a specific pricing model that maybe doesn't match your content and your past partnerships. So, like, think beyond a cpm, because we're in the creative industry for a sec. And things like, okay, maybe you have a series. Whereas, like, Courtney's content is a great example here of career cheat codes. Like, we have. You and I have incorporated so many brand partnerships into career cheat codes. It feels so authentic, so organic to your. To your content. It's. It kind of touches on everything we've talked about, authenticity, like acting like a consumer, the normal content your community's used to seeing. So, so again, like, you have a series that a brand can incorporate themselves into very seamlessly. They love that maybe you have a specific background knowledge or skillset. So, like, maybe it's a podcast microphone brand and they want to work with you. Even if you don't talk about your podcast that much on your channel, they know that you run a podcast. So you have like a special secret sauce in the background that, like, you are qualified to speak about this or that you work a 9 to 5 job maybe. And so you can kind of talk about balance, of being, I don't know, an entrepreneur and working 9 to 5. And this specific brand works nicely into that niche. There's also things especially like when we talk diversity of creators, whether it's bipoc or body image or fashion and retail sizing and hair color, skin color, all these things, like, really, really can affect because they have to have a nice balance always in every campaign. And you should know kind of where you fit, whether you are like the thought leader, you are diversity, you are the expert in it, you work in the field, or you have a series that is special to it. Like, it's always a mix rather than just like, like no brand is gonna run a campaign and be like, we're only working with foodies.
- [32:41]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I think it's interesting you bring up casting because when a brand is creating a campaign, they are essentially casting and they want to have a wide range of audiences represented, like in their niche or sub audience. And I think for me, something that has increased my revenue of brand deals is the fact that I am a female creator in the B2B space. There is, like, only bros in that space.
- [33:06]
Kelsey
Yes.
- [33:06]
Courtney Johnson
There is something that's unique about you, and I love that you bring up content series, too. I think content series is just such a good way to integrate brand partnerships because it's something you already have one that comes to mind. I don't know if y'all follow Caitlin Nassar. She's here in Austin. She has one about, like, products her mom likes or, like, things that she admires about her mom. And she's brought brand partnerships into that, which is interesting because that's not even about her. She's talking about somebody else. That's really cool.
- [33:35]
Kelsey
Yeah. And, like, sometimes you can also cater it to be like, if we get into the nitty gritty, you can have a dedicated video versus an integrated video. So dedicated would be like, it is very clear it's only about that brand, how you use it in your daily life. Like, the product attributes, key messaging, all of that, or integrated. So maybe it's like you are known. I would. I would say again, our friend Eleanor. Eleanor is known for, like, come with me for a typical Saturday in Austin, or here's five things going on in Austin this weekend. And she could do a very simple integrated video where a brand or an event is paying to be part of it, but they're just integrated into a very seamless, organic video that she is known for as part of a series.
- [34:19]
Courtney Johnson
Can I tell you my favorite content series?
- [34:21]
Kelsey
Yes, please.
- [34:22]
Courtney Johnson
Come take a shit with me.
- [34:23]
Kelsey
Who's that?
- [34:24]
Courtney Johnson
Do you not see those?
- [34:25]
Kelsey
No, this girl, like, sitting on the toilet.
- [34:28]
Courtney Johnson
No, this girl, she lives in New York, and her content series is Come Take a with Me. And she'll be like, come take a with me at the Restoration Hardware on Fifth Avenue. And she rates the toilet paper. Oh, she rates the paper towels. She rates if there's, like, a bidet or something. And it's so funny. She's partnered with, like, Charmin. She's partnered with Aesop. Like, she's partnered with all these, like, soap, toilet paper, even, like, toy, like, fancy toilet brands. And that's her whole content series. Like, instead of being an NYC foodie or NYC events, like, she's doing all of that, but she's just talking about the toilet. She'll go to, like, a music festival and be like, come take a shit with me at acf, at Coachella, literally. And she's built an entire brand off of it. It's so funny.
- [35:11]
Kelsey
That's amazing.
- [35:12]
Courtney Johnson
Okay. Content series. I love that. And yes, you can get creative with it. It doesn't have to be a content series about you. It doesn't have to be traditional. It might not even be something that like has your face in it. What I recommend for content series, how to create a content series is just go to your existing content sort. Like you can sort on TikTok by your top performing posts or use your analytics tool to sort by top performing posts and make that into a content series. I don't go into a piece of content thinking it's going to be a series. I wait till my audience tells me what they like and then I make a part two and part three and part four.
- [35:45]
Kelsey
Yeah, it's not just like an idea out of thin air. Right. It's again, that's another cheat code that like we could have included of. Look at your analytics and look at it not just like the numbers in the back end cause it gets messy and ugly. But like, as Courtney said, which I learned this embarrassingly not too long ago, that you can sort based off like your most relevant and most viewed see what sticks and like lean into that because like your audience knows what they want and they're telling you and like, if you're not listening, you're not gonna succeed.
- [36:20]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, totally. There's so much juice in the analytics. Even just looking at your top 10 performing posts of all times. Try to identify the themes. Is it all talking heads? Are they all green screens? Are you really emotional? Are you more stoic? Are you sharing about a certain topic? There's so many cool themes that you can uncover from that. Okay, next. Ooh, Ooh. This is my favorite cheat code. This is my favorite one because this is the reason why I'm a content creator. Literally. It's so funny. I feel like Eleanor needs to be here because we keep mentioning her. But when she invited me to the content creator event, like I was a budding content creator, she was like, why the fuck did you only make $4,000? Get your shit together. But Eleanor would never say like that. That's how I would say to myself, okay. She said, come to this content creator event. And just being around other content creators, I was like, oh my God, this is something I can do. I'm so inspired. This is normalized. So cheat code number five, your network is your net worth. Living in a city like Austin, nyc, LA is a move. If you want to be a content creator, you can surround yourself with other creators that have similar mindset and grow together. I think that's awesome.
- [37:32]
Kelsey
Yes. I think I was listening to one of your Podcast episodes earlier today, honestly. And one thing that you mentioned which I agree with, networking is not like going putting on a suit and going to these fluffy events with finance bros. Like that's not where we need to be. Networking is truly like your network of like minded people. And I know that you talk about this so much and I am such a firm believer of like you are who you surround yourself with. Like truly like your core group, whether they're friends or like we like to call them like colleagues, other creators, other small business owners, entrepreneurs. Like they don't have to be content creators, but you need to surround yourself in places, cities, events, friend groups, like activities. Like we are so blessed here in Austin obviously. But like you don't have to be in New York, Louisiana, Austin or Chicago to be successful in this field. You don't. But you do need to really put yourself out there and try a little harder depending on where you are. Because if you're not attending the creator events, if you are getting invites, if you're getting invites to the events and you're not attending any of them, like you're probably not going to meet the people that you need to meet. Like it's crazy who you will bump elbows with if you put yourself into like Soho House, which like you don't have to join a members only club like that. But it was great. It was great for me for a year. Soho House creator events, brand pop ups that are happening in your city. Like these are the places where brand managers, marketing managers, other content creators who can give you tips and tricks and other contacts that they have. Like that is where they're hanging out. And if you're not in those spaces, you're not gonna be able to grow your own network.
- [39:21]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. If you can't find the opportunities in person or if the opportunities in person aren't accessible to you, you need to find a digital community. Yes. And not just a digital community like on Slack or whatever. Like a digital community where you're at least face to face on Zoom with other people. Something that I do is I host a content creation co working session that's virtual every Wednesday. So I gather with other content creators, we all work on our videos at once. Like you could set up something like that and have other people that are in your similar content creation field like come and work with you once a week, even if it's virtually on Zoom. But you're so right, the more you can get in person and the more you can be surrounded by it, the more normalized it's going to become to you. And the more likely you're going to achieve your goal. Actually not the more likely you're going to achieve your goal. Your goal, it's going to be inevitable. If you are surrounded by people who have already normalized achieving their your goal, it's inevitable. Like if you want to be a content creator, you go start hanging out with content creators. You're going to become a content creator by fucking osmosis.
- [40:23]
Kelsey
Yes. I would also say I love that you brought up because I didn't really touch on that of like the virtual piece of it. So like let's say you're living somewhere or that you're just really an introvert either way. Or you're living somewhere that maybe being a content creator you're kind of the only person in your town or whatever engaging on the platforms that you're on. Like let's say you're big into TikTok. Engage with other creators that you love even if they're all over the world. Because you will eventually be seen as like this girl. Kelsey comments on every one of Courtney's videos like I wonder who she is. And then you start to be discovered that way because you're part of this crew without having to physically be there. And that is like so powerful. Or on LinkedIn, like I know you preach about engaging on LinkedIn with people you follow or people you look up to or that you want to bump elbows with online. Like that is also like so powerful. Or maybe you're doing the same thing on X, I don't care. But like all of it is you can engage and interact with these like minded people without physically being there with them.
- [41:25]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, totally, totally. I think that's so important. Do you think that you need a certain amount of followers in order to start monetizing your.
- [41:35]
Kelsey
Yes and no. I would say if you have like what I see a lot is one platform will be super strong and the other platform will have like less than 5k. I would say it's not as much about the follower count as we've talked about with knowing your worth and how to price yourself. It's not just about like having over 10k or over a hundred k. It really comes down to like your content and your consistency. Because if you think about when a brand is coming to view your Instagram page, if you have like no Instagram stories today, you haven't posted in feed for three weeks, like you have only done two reels ever. Like they're not gonna see you as like a legitimate creator because you're not actually creating content. So I think, like, that's a huge part of it and showing that. Like, do you talk about brands? Have brands gifted you product in the past? Have you done paid partnerships or trade partnerships? Like you have any. If, if you haven't monetized, like, that's okay. I've worked with creators who have never monetized before and we start from the ground and scale from there. It's very, very possible. But I would say it's like a true testament of what does your content and your platform look like from a first eye view. And if that's attractive to brands, that's attractive to brands. It doesn't have to be like, she has over 10k.
- [42:55]
Courtney Johnson
Definitely. I think that consistency is more important than anything because when brands are casting for a campaign, a lot of times they also want diversity of audience size and they want to work with really big creators and also smaller creators. Like, you just have to make sure that you're posting. But I always think of what is someone's unconscious immediate bias going to be when they glance at your profile? This is not. After they've looked at it for a couple seconds, this is like just a glance. What is the bias? And if the bias is, oh, they don't really know what they're doing, or they're kind of inconsistent, or they're kind of all over the place, then they're going to move on to the next person. Like, nobody is sitting and mulling over your pages for a long time. It is an instant glance move on. And if you're not catching their eye and being a really clear, like, candidate, they're going to be like, no.
- [43:43]
Kelsey
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say again, like, regardless of your following, cater what you want your first impression to look like. Like, truly. Because, I mean, prime example would be the past few weekends here in our city. We've had insane events from ACL to F1. And there's so many brand events going on that they just want to find people who are good at posting content in general to attend these events because they want content out of it. And they weren't just going after like huge, huge creators. Like, I got to go to, to brand events. And it's like if they just know that somebody likes to create content when they're out or in their daily life, like, they will see that. And they aren't necessarily looking at your metrics and your follower count.
- [44:30]
Courtney Johnson
Definitely. Yeah. I actually, I didn't start posting consistently on Instagram until maybe six months ago. And I probably had like 10,000 Instagram followers, inconsistent posting. I didn't get a single Instagram brand deal because people looked at my page and was like, oh, she hasn't posted in, you know, a few months, so we're not gonna work with her until I started. And it didn't matter that I had a lot of followers. Like, it wasn't until I started getting consistent that I started getting Instagram followers.
- [44:57]
Kelsey
That's, I mean, that's a good call too because like your TikTok and your Instagram is what your Instagram's like half, maybe even less than half the follower count of your TikTok. And it's still. Brands are super interested in cross promoting, like posting on both channels because that's more viewership for them. It's also more income for you when we do that. It really doesn't matter. I mean, like to an extent, as long as you're showing up and you're doing something on both platforms, like that's attractive.
- [45:22]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I think also it depends on your industry of what the follower expectation is. For example, I help my partner Lucas a lot with his podcast, which is about vascular surgery, which is extremely niche. And their Instagram page has like 700 followers and they get multi five figure deals with brands because the audience is so small. How many vascular surgeons are there in the world? I don't know, a thousand. So they have like, you know, 60% of the market listening to their podcast. And the maximum amount of vascular surgeons that can even listen to the podcast that are even alive is like a thousand or two thousand people or however small it is. So like they're never going to have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of followers, but they can still pull in huge brand deals because they've captured that small market. So maybe you have an extremely small and niche market and you're never going to have a huge amount of followers. Like that is fine. You're owning that market. You can still bring in brand deals.
- [46:15]
Kelsey
That is knowing your worth.
- [46:17]
Courtney Johnson
Knowing your worth.
- [46:17]
Kelsey
Shout out, Lucas.
- [46:18]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, shout out. Men are good at that. I feel like, man.
- [46:22]
Kelsey
Because they don't care.
- [46:23]
Courtney Johnson
They don't, they don't care.
- [46:24]
Kelsey
They're like, I'm the. Yeah, everyone. Everyone will like this. I'm gonna do it. And like girls, we can too.
- [46:31]
Courtney Johnson
We. I want to close off on knowing some of the craziest numbers that you've seen, because the craziest brand deal that I've ever seen was from this man. This is when I was on the corporate side and I was Hiring influencers. This man had maybe like 10,000 Twitter followers. This was a campaign on Twitter and LinkedIn that was B2B. 10,000 Twitter followers. A solid number, but not a mega influencer or anything. He charged $10,000 to respond to one of the company tweets. $10,000. And guess what? We gave him $10,000. And it was ROI positive like his. He had so much value in being like the tool guy, the SAS tool guy, and really knowing and curating SaaS tools that the fact that he just commented on one of our tweets and he was like, I love this product that literally generated like $50,000 in revenue. But it took him four seconds to respond, oh, love this product. And he made $10,000 off of it as a small creator.
- [47:29]
Kelsey
And what a risky from that brand side. They were just preying on the algorithm that Twitter was going to show. Like, Bob replied to this because that could very easily not show up.
- [47:40]
Courtney Johnson
I think that they had some friends that had worked with him and been like, yeah, he's, he's legit. It. It really was his niche of he.
- [47:48]
Kelsey
Was like, he's a reply guy.
- [47:49]
Courtney Johnson
He's a reply guy. And he's also just the ultimate tool curator for startups and if he endorses something like, you know, it's good. So that's the craziest thing I've ever seen. Have you seen some crazy numbers? Crazy things?
- [48:01]
Kelsey
Oh, like the most I've seen a creator be paid.
- [48:03]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [48:04]
Kelsey
Well, just. I just need to say for transparency, this is not anybody on my current roster at Elizabeth Talent. But yet in a previous life, I was working again on a large fashion brand, working with like a New York City creator, and she was paid like upwards of 80k for one post.
- [48:22]
Courtney Johnson
How many followers?
- [48:22]
Kelsey
And this was before video was like really hitting off. So it was like a carousel post of probably three photos, maybe like 1.5 million followers. So up there. Yeah, but yeah, it was 80k, which today probably would have been well over a hundred K if not, like, I mean, we know how much Alex Earl is making like a hundred k off of 100k plus off of 1 partnership.
- [48:46]
Courtney Johnson
That's crazy. Yeah, but I, I mean, it's probably getting.
- [48:49]
Kelsey
But you know what? Yeah, she talk about an roi. Anything she posts, it will like go viral. Myself included. I will buy it.
- [48:58]
Courtney Johnson
Period. Okay, Kelsey, what are you seeking and where can people find you? Are you seeking more brands to work with? Are you seeking more creators to work with? Like, how can people find you and what do you want what you want, Kelsey?
- [49:09]
Kelsey
I would love if people could follow Elizabeth Talent at Elizabeth talent on Instagram, LinkedIn, and really just always appreciate finding new brand partners. We represent about 10 girls now, majority of which based in Austin, Texas. Always looking for new brand partnerships. I mean, my email is Kelsey, Elizabeth Talent. I would love to connect you with anybody on our roster. Courtney and a few of the other girls. Yes.
- [49:35]
Courtney Johnson
You want to work with me, you have to go through Kelsey.
- [49:38]
Kelsey
Yes.
- [49:38]
Courtney Johnson
No, it's really awesome, your model, because you can so easily be like, oh, and we also have these other people that fulfill this need.
- [49:45]
Kelsey
Yeah, you.
- [49:46]
Courtney Johnson
You really have own. Like, you kind of do own the local Austin influencer niche with Elizabeth Talent.
- [49:53]
Kelsey
Well, thank you. That is like, the biggest compliment ever. Yeah, we kind of COVID it all, don't we? We have all sorts of niches. We aren't specific to one kind of content creator or industry, so it's. It's fun.
- [50:04]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, so you're looking for more brands to work with? As always, people that are aligned. Like, what types. What types of brands are you seeking more partnerships with?
- [50:15]
Kelsey
I would say we typically cover tech, B2B. We do a lot of food and CPG and fashion, retail. I know that's kind of everything, but I would say in general, we're a lifestyle agency across the board. Our roster kind of covers everything, so we kind of do it all. But if you're a content creator and you just want to chat and know how, like, the management business of influencer marketing works, I'm happy to chat. I always love meeting new people.
- [50:41]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, everyone, go hit up Kelsey, especially brands. Work with me, please. Okay, Love you.
- [50:46]
Kelsey
Thanks so much.
- [50:47]
Courtney Johnson
Thank you, Kelsey.
- [50:49]
Kelsey
Bye.
- [50:51]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, y'all, if you like this episode, you would love. Love my Patreon. Okay? You get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources, and a lot of juicy shit. Okay? So I hope to see you on my Patreon.