Loading summary
Transcript63 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I am here to un. Gatekeep the gatekeep. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy. Welcome, Caylee. I'm so excited that you're here. I actually made a list of 10, like, dream podcast guests, and you were on that list.
- [00:25]
B
It's so incredibly flattering. I think my jaw dropped when you said that to me, so thank you. I'm honored.
- [00:34]
A
Kayleigh, you are really the queen of ads. And anytime somebody is like, okay, Courtney, I think it's time that I start to step into paid. I don't know shit about it. So I'm like, you just need to go to Kayleigh. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
- [00:48]
B
Yeah. Okay. Well, I have been in the advertising space now online for 11 years, so since 2014. That's when I got into it. I. I started out with meta ads, but I also do also do, like, Google Ads, Pinterest ads, TikTok ads, Snapchat, like, all the ads. But I mostly talk about meta ads because in my opinion, I think that's still one of the best investments, to be honest. So, yeah, I've been in the space for a while. I quit corporate in 2017, so I was a national brand and marketing manager for a big media company actually at the time. And I helped them build up their audiences in. In new. In new markets, which was really fun. And then I ended up leaving, going out on my own in 2017, focused on kind of everything under the sun. At first, I was offering every marketing service possible. I was still doing design work as well. And then, honestly, when Covid hit in 2020, I was like, okay, I really need to focus. And everybody just kept asking me for ads, like, ads this, ads this. Because I started actually sharing my results. Before that, I didn't actually understand how good I was at it. Like, even though I had done all these things, like, in corporate and for clients, even at that point too, I still didn't understand how good I was at it. And then I started sharing things, and people are like, whoa, I need to know, like, what's going on here? And it just really built from there. I launched my first group program for ads in 2021, which I'm still running today. And then I also have a business mastermind as well now. So that's primarily for people who also want to be educators or who are service providers, yada, yada. So, yeah.
- [02:29]
A
Wait, that's so cool. When did the business mastermind start. That's like new ish, right?
- [02:34]
B
Early 2023. So it's about two and a half years old now. We're doing our fifth cohort in September, so.
- [02:40]
A
Yeah.
- [02:41]
B
And I love it. You know, ads. Ads are awesome and I love ads, but I really get to go so much more deeper when we look at the business as a whole. And then I also get to bring people into the world of where I talk about all the things that make ads successful. Right. So talking about things like pricing and offer development and wealth, mindset and planning for capacity and energetic management, like that stuff really lights me up. So I have a lot of fun over there too.
- [03:10]
A
Yeah, that's amazing. It's so layered and deep and beautiful. You're just really a master at it.
- [03:16]
B
Thank you.
- [03:18]
A
Okay, before we get started in the cheat code, the cheat codes, I have one question, and that is when do you know when it's time to run ads? A lot of people ask me this question and again, I'm like, I actually don't know. You need to go ask Kayleigh. But when do you know it's time?
- [03:36]
B
I love this question. It's something that is always on my mind because I think a lot of people get it wrong. I think there's a lot of conflicting messages out there. And personally, I think the right time to start ads is. Is one of two scenarios. Scenario one is you've got a really great thing going organically and you have momentum and you have room for scale, right? Because there's no sense in sending you more business if you can't hold it. Like, if you can't facilitate it, fulfill whatever. Right? So that's scenario one. Scenario two is maybe you haven't quite had organic success yet, but maybe you've got funding. Maybe you have a high risk for tolerance. Maybe you just have additional resources and you want to take the risk and you want to grow really fast. Most people are not able to have the right mindset for option B. So I would say for 95% of people, you're going to come across it's option one. And even if somebody comes to me and they're in Camp B, I am still very cautious around that because people do put a lot of expectations around ads, but ads can't fix anything. They can't create new demand for your product. Like your product either has demand or it doesn't. It's just then about the visibility piece, right? So another thing I find really interesting is you've probably seen this and I apologize if maybe even you've said this yourself, but I see this a lot online where people will say, I did it all without ads. And people are like, oh, it's such a flex. But when I see that somebody's like, I've done it all without ads, and like, you can do it too. I'm like, you're basically admitting that you could go so much further with ads because nothing's ads aren't going to make anything work. Right. It either works and then it's how far you want to take it. So that's also an interesting conversation, I think, too, I'm planning to do some content around soon to really call that out.
- [05:22]
A
I think, yeah, there's definitely a ceiling because there becomes a point where you know your audience growth metrics. Like, you know how much you're growing per month, you know how much, and you've kept optimizing the percentage that you're converting from each email, each story or whatever. And there becomes a point where you cannot apply any additional leverage. And I think that's probably really when you want to look at ads. And I, a mentor of mine told me the same thing. I'm like, well, I did this all organically. And she's like, that's not something to brag about, Courtney.
- [05:55]
B
Yeah, I mean, it is one thing to brag about on one hand because not everybody can do that organically. But I think where people miss maybe is let's say that somebody did spend the money all on ads. Well, that wasn't going to be the make or break, you know? You know, like, ads are never the solution. It's a part of an ecosystem. It's a part of a much bigger puzzle. And you're right. Like, you can really only take things so far organically. And I know for me too, it's interesting because a lot of people will so readily and so easily spend their time, right? They'll be like, okay, well, like, I'm not spending money, but think about all the time that you spend sometimes on some things. And I know for me, like, even with content like, yes, I run very elaborate campaigns for a lot of clients and have for a long time. For me, if I have a post that I know is resonating with people and bringing in the right people, I'll be like, I just put traffic campaign behind it, put a little bit of money. And now I'm like growing my account while I sleep. And then if I don't want to create a new post for like three months, I don't have to, you know, so I Think there's that trade off too, where I just know for me, I'm like coming back to leverage, right. If I'm going to spend money and it's going to bring me back more money, great. But ads is a place where a lot of people's nervous systems comes online and like freezes. Because to be honest, there, there's a lot of people out there who are running ads for people and maybe don't understand them as deeply as they need to be. So there's a lot of people who have been burned. And I get that too. And that's valid as well. I took that on a big tangent.
- [07:23]
A
No, that's so, so helpful. Yeah, I. It's really, it's really time for me. Okay. Actually, I have one more question before we get into the cheat codes, and that is I work with a lot of American clients and I work with a lot of non American clients. I have a lot of Canadian clients. And what I find is that Americans have this natural audacity to like dream big and go for things. I find that people from other countries. Canada is a big one. That audacity building is much harder. So as a Canadian, how do you have the audacity? And what could you tell other people in a similar situation as you? That's like, I didn't grow up in this culture that's like, do everything, dream big, like, make crazy risks. Like, I believe you grew up in like a quite risk tolerant culture.
- [08:11]
B
Mm, yeah. Ooh.
- [08:12]
A
This is such risk intolerant. Sorry, Risk intolerant.
- [08:16]
B
Yeah. What an interesting topic. Because to be honest, I don't think about this that much. And as Canadians, I will say overall, I think that there probably is a perception that Americans have more audacity than us, for sure. And especially too in England. I actually see that, you know, my clients in England are often even more risk intolerant or more reluctant to rock the boat or say something or that kind of thing. I know for me, I mean, I grew up kind of in the middle of nowhere. Like, we couldn't even get cable when I was in. By the time I was in high school. So I grew up, you know, 15 minutes outside of a town of 10,000 people. And I've always kind of stood out a little. You know, I think I always questioned the norm and what was, quote, unquote, allowed or what was okay. And I think for me, I was able to start immersing myself in my own world from a very young age, you know, like blinders on. And that's what Helped me dream. And then what I would do, I think, is I would find sources that would back up that my dreams were possible. So I was always in high school, like, buying magazines and reading stories about people who had made it or this or that. At the time, I actually wanted to be a fashion designer. So it was pretty easy to find magazines for that. Or, you know, I got really into reading blogs even in back in high school. Like, I built my first website in 2007. I was 17, learning, like, teaching myself Adobe Illustrator and building websites. So I allowed myself to be immersed in my own world enough that I don't think I allowed myself to question it as much as maybe a lot of other people do. And that would kind of be my advice is, and this is still my advice to so many people is like, blinders on. Blinders on. Like, if you find you're getting really caught up in other people's expectations or, you know, the thoughts or you're thinking about what other people are going to say to you. I think really it's important to let yourself get immersed in your own desires, in your own wants, and if you need to, like, let that consume you for a bit. I think a lot of people are so afraid to, like, let their own needs and wants consume them. But I know for me at that age, it was all I could think about because I was letting it consume me. And so there was just never going to be another option for me. Like, I knew that from such a young age.
- [10:46]
A
Yeah, that's so powerful. Yeah. I think the, the actionable step here is like finding stories of people who have done it and really anchoring into that. That's. That's beautiful.
- [10:57]
B
Yeah, like expanders. Expanders are so incredibly important.
- [11:03]
A
Yes. Finding your expanders. Okay, Kailee, our first cheat code. This one is a quote that you said to me one time. I think you said it in content club and I cannot remember the exact way you phrased it, but you said something like posting controversial things, posting spicy things actually refines your audience and the people that leave. It's a good thing. And I feel like a lot of people have fears around being opinionated in their content. And this could be something as, quote, unquote, controversial as like a political opinion or as blase as. I think you should use HubSpot over Salesforce. Right. People are scared on every single level to post something that might, that somebody might disagree with. So what's your, what's your opinion and cheat code on. On the mental reframe of refining your audience?
- [11:56]
B
Yeah. So I kind of have a little bit of a strategy for this. And I cannot believe you are asking this question right now because as I was getting ready to come on camera, I was like, oh, dang, I need to post about my values again soon because I'm getting new followers and I need to filter them because I don't want everyone to stay because not everyone's going to be a fit. And I don't ever want to be in a position where I have to censor myself and think, oh, I can't share that I care about this thing because when I do, I'm going to have a max exodus. I would rather be filtering constantly, you know, so I'm the kind of person who, okay, I gained 200 followers. I might lose 100 of them within like the first couple of weeks. Because I'm making sure that I'm being very clear about what I stand for. And that process alone, where it really affects my business is it means that I'm constantly and consistently creating a pool of people who I know I'm going to vibe with when I'm working with them. Like just straight up, right? Because if I'm sharing my opinions and I know that my best fit clients and the people who I actually have the most fun with working are likely to share those opinions, I am doing myself and my nervous system a service anytime I'm in fulfillment. So if I look at my mastermind, it's so specific. You bring those people together and everybody is like soul sisters. Because I've been so forward with my values and they likely share them. You know, I actually get nervous. My last launch of Meta Ads Academy, I had four people come in from either Google AI summaries or ChatGPT, which is really cool on one hand, but I also get a little nervous when people come in and they haven't consumed a lot of my stuff. I get more nervous when they haven't seen the opinions than when they have. Right. And even when I look at my done for you ads management service, I now have a question at the bottom of that intake form or discovery call form that says, here are my values. How do you feel about these right now? It takes a while to get there because I get that that's a privilege. It is a privilege, right? If. If you're not that far in your business and you have a lot of financial responsibility, then yeah, it's gonna feel a little bit more high stakes to be filtering people out like that. And at the same time, there's a lot of people who are kind of where I'm at in business and still don't want to share an opinion, you know, so that's the way I look at it. I'm like, well, would I rather work with somebody who I find out six months from now is somebody who I'm just not going to get on with and just have a tough time working with, or who's not going to respect my boundaries, or do I want to know that I'm going to have virtually zero client problems? And that's the reality for me. It's been the reality for years now. Because of sharing my opinions online. I have very few problems. Like, like, my clients never cause me an issue.
- [14:40]
A
Yeah. I love that you bring up honesty as a monetary privilege, because that is true. If you are just like, in a position where you need any client, it doesn't matter who they are, you need to put food on the table. Yeah. And as you grow in your business, you can become more. You can share more conviction. And I think that's an important distinction. But, wow, the abundance mentality that you have to be able to do that is also so strong. Like, in order to step into that, you really. You have a strong belief that, like, there are enough people that are going to want to work with me that I can filter out these people. And that is such an amazing mental reframe that is so rooted in abundance. That's beautiful.
- [15:22]
B
Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I think a lot of people also really underestimate the number of people who will agree with their opinions. I think that a lot of people think like, oh, I'm thinking this, or, oh, I have this stance, and 90% of people are going to look at it and be like, oh, that's silly, and. Or have a completely different opinion. I've found that it's usually at least half the people will agree with you, you know, like, especially with the way the algorithms are. Like, unless you're posting rage bait for the sake of posting rage bait, you're going to be okay. You know, because when we look at. Yeah. How big, though, like, how many people are here and likely to be a potential client for most people, unless you're in some ridiculously niche thing, There really and truly are so many people out there. And I actually have people now who on program applications will say, I follow you on Instagram and I love your values. And I looked at so many people, but I know that it's you that I want to work with. So even if what I'm offering is very similar in so many ways that was the deciding factor. And I see that as something that actually makes sales easier in my business now and again. That is, you know, obviously a privilege.
- [16:38]
A
But yeah, yeah, I just like, on a funny note, one of my friends posted one time, she was like, I don't really like Taylor Swift. And she lost 80,000 followers. It does not matter what you post about. Some people are going to be in for you. Some people are not. It is a part of it. You cannot be successful in this without ostracizing people that don't. That don't agree with you. People are wanting to work with you because they see all of these different elements about you. And a lot of my clients are like, oh, I can only talk about graphic design. I can only talk about this one thing. But when you bring in all aspects of your multifaceted humanity, like, that's really what people connect with.
- [17:20]
B
Absolutely. What it's showing, in my opinion, is the why. Right? We're always showing the why. Like the surface level, the how to get there. Right? The ads is how to get there. The being an ethical marketer is how to get there. But the why is all the other elements that you're showing. My why is that I want time to be in the garden because I love that. I want to be with my daughter and I want to give her a good life. Showing that why, I think, is where people really connect emotionally. That's what I found anyway. The number of people who end up working with me and then they start asking me gardening questions or. I actually remember uncovering this insight about my audience. And it was such a huge light bulb moment. A couple of years ago, in my Mastermind, the subject of owning chickens came up. Somebody was like, haley, like, I really want to own chickens. And then all these other people in the group were like, yeah, me too. And I was like, hold up. My ideal audience wants chickens. Like, what is this? But really it's those pieces. And I think people string them together. And it also allows you to show a different side of just your personality too. Right? It's like how I found you. I don't know if you remember this, right. I found your Tram video on TikTok. And I was like, this is the most random, weirdest. And I love her, and I love how she's just owning this and talking about it as though this is super normal. And then I started creeping around, being like, what does this person even do? And then I was like, oh, she talks about LinkedIn. And I was like, I have been meaning to get back into LinkedIn and I joined your program like immediately.
- [18:56]
A
Yeah, I love that. I hear that a lot. People are like, I came for the tram, I stayed for LinkedIn.
- [19:03]
B
Oh, come for the tram, stay for LinkedIn. I love that. That you should have that somewhere if.
- [19:07]
A
You don't already on a T shirt. Great idea. Okay, so speaking of being multi passionate, there is an attunement to this because one of your cheat codes is being multi passionate is powerful until it becomes a reason to never choose. Tell me more.
- [19:27]
B
I think that if I am being very blunt, and I was actually thinking about this a lot recently, a lot of people get their identity mixed up with their businesses to a point of when they think of niching or I guess in. In America it's niche, right? Niching niche. In Canada we say niche. When people think about niching, they can't bring themselves to do it because they're so tied to their output, they're so tied to this achievement aspect of their identity that focusing and niching becomes paralyzing. You know, So a lot of people I find, default to, oh, I'm multi passionate. I'm a multi hyphenate or whatever. And yeah, so many of us are. I actually think that that is probably the majority of people in the online business space, if I'm being honest. And I do think there's a way to be multi passionate. I am multi passionate. As somebody who's been there, is it way harder in every way in the long term to build a sustainable business by feeling like you need to be all of these things or else it doesn't feel like you? Yes. I think the real work there is figuring out why you need to showcase all these things in your business and why it feels uncomfortable to let go of things at an identity level. Because when you focus, when you specialize, it is so much easier to become a premium position brand. It is so much easier to build sustainable systems. It's so much easier to become known for something. Then launching things becomes easier than selling things becomes easier. And like, why the heck are you in this to begin with? Right? You still do all the other shit. Just do it as a hobby on the side. You're probably actually going to enjoy it so much more now.
- [21:23]
A
Definitely. Yeah, that's really, really helpful. And I think this, like the procrastination comes up. Like people could be procrastinating because they're like, I love all these things, like, how do I do it? But our next cheat code is clarity doesn't come from endlessly spiraling in your head. It comes from movement and messy action before you're ready. Tell me about this one.
- [21:46]
B
Yeah, well, we're never going to have all the answers, you know, Even if you think you have all the answers, you're never going to have all the answers. So if you get stuck and trying to need all the answers to make it perfect to what's happening there is perceived risk reduction. Essentially. That's what you care about. If you're doing that, you need a lower risk. Cool. So instead, maybe go take a lower risk first so that you can take it, you know, set the bar really, really, really dang low so that you're actually going to take that risk and take some movement. Because I. Until you have any movement, you have no data, you have no feedback system, you have no loop at all. There's nothing to base it off of. Right. You have to try something because everything goes two ways, right? If we're trying to control something so completely, we have nothing to base that off of if we're trying to perfect something. But as soon as you just get shit out there. And you, you are so good at encouraging this, even in content, right, Then you. You have more to choose from and to look at. And this is like your outlier strategy that you talk about in content club. You have so much more to look at now. When you have more data points, whether that is something tangible or that's something like how I felt when I did that, that's also a data point. Great. You know what becomes easier now for the rest of time? Decisions. You don't have to guess and, like, get out of your frigging head. I think I get. I used to get stuck in my head so much. And then I found. Actually, that's why I used to get into bouldering. It's like rock climbing, but without the. You know, I did that on purpose because I was scared of heights. And I was like, I need something where I can just be afraid. So I have to be in the moment because I didn't want to fall off the wall. And it really got me out of my head. So anytime I found myself getting in my head, I would just go do that. And then it would detach me from a lot of other things now. Just, yeah, just try something, you know? Yeah, that's. I see that with people launching courses and programs a lot, too. That's honestly where I see it the most. I see people, they'll pull their audience and be like, what should I launch a course? And then they, like, read so much into that one signal and then they get hung up and they don't actually build the thing because they want it to be perfect and have all the bells and whistles. And what people really need to do is either sell it before you build it. I know that sounds scary, but I did that for one of my programs. It was the best decision ever. Or you need to launch just a freaking mini version to validate the market. You had no data. No wonder you're getting caught up. Get the data. Like.
- [24:09]
A
You know that feeling when nobody really gets what you're going through when you're surrounded by all of these people but you're somehow still feel alone. I lived that reality for years until I discovered the power of healing and community Reinvigorate and Restore is a luxury six day retreat in Cape Town designed specifically for women who are ready to move beyond survival mode to begin living your best life truly and authentically. Imagine six days in Cape Town April 14th through 19th by the way, in a luxurious villa where everything is designed for your restoration. Morning yoga overlooking the mountains, sound healing sessions. Authentic connection with people who understand your journey without explanation. Imagine six days with people who truly get it, who see you, hear you and walk alongside you in your healing journey. Time is limited, so book your spot for April again. The retreat is April 14th through 19th and you can visit survivorsriseretreat.com to book a call with Paula to learn more. Your people are waiting for you. Nexus Point is a best in class outsourcing company that helps business owners and entrepreneurs scale efficiently and profitably by leveraging the global talent pool. Founded by entrepreneurs like yourselves, Nexus Point uses its vast infrastructure to find, hire and train best in class talent from around the globe at just 20% of the cost of hiring locally. Nexus Point will provide you with pre vetted talent with college degrees and at least three years of work experience, often with US based business owners. From executive assistants to social media managers, customer service reps, data entry and research analysts and other back office functions, Nexus Point can help take you and your business to the next most profitable level yet. Use the special link or mention slay the gatekeeper and have the $500 search fee completely waived. Delegation is so important, but it can be so hard to find the right talent. So I highly recommend checking out Nexus Point again. You can book a call at Go NexusPT IO CourtneyJohnson or visit the link in the show Notes. Today's episode is sponsored by my Sunrise Content Club. I created Sunrise Content Club because I really des accountability in my content creation how it works is we meet on Zoom every single weekday from 8 to 9am we get on the Zoom, we play some fun music, we have a little mindful moment and then I give you a content prompt and we spend about 45 minutes working on this prompt together. In this time, you can ask questions, get feedback on your content, and at the end we all share our wins and we also share our content that we have created during that time. So we all get an initial boost because we are liking and commenting on each other's posts. There's also a really fun and supportive group chat where you can ask questions, share your content, get accountability. The Sunrise Content Club is an incredible way to stay consistent in your content creation and have community support. It is especially helpful with folks with ADHD who find value in body doubling. For a very limited time, you can join the Sunrise Content club for just $99 a month. This is a very special limited time founders rate and I am so excited to see you guys there. Join the Sunrise Content Club today. My, my move is to always sell it and then I build it. Because now I'm like, people are financially committed to this. I have to build it or I'm scamming them. Like, I force myself to build it that way. Yes.
- [27:52]
B
That's how I launched Meta Ads Academy. I was pregnant at the time and I had terrible happen at the A frame that I own that I was, we were renovating it at the time and I was like, I need to make a bunch of money real quick. Like, what am I going to do? And people have been asking me to teach them ads for a very long time, but I was so in my head about it. I was like, oh, no, I don't want to do that. And then I was like, okay, I'm just going to put the feelers out. And people are like, yeah, I want this. And then every week I would create the content. The week of, like, it was the best thing ever, you know, I'm so glad I did that.
- [28:26]
A
But yeah, yeah, I've done that for all my programs.
- [28:29]
B
I love it.
- [28:30]
A
I think that's the best. Yeah. Yeah. How many times have people come to you being like, well, Kayleigh, I'll start doing ads once I know all the information. I understand my strategy. I have all the creative, all the copy, all the strategy for the six months moving forward and then I'll start. And you're like, yeah, that strategy is literally going to be obsolete in like a week. The minute you test something.
- [28:51]
B
Yeah, totally. I mean, I'll say In the done for you realm. If I was doing ads management for that person, I wouldn't take them on as a client because it's not realistic. And that is one of the best ways to have underperformance across the board. Because you're not being nimble, you're not being adaptable and you're putting way too much pressure on things. Some of the best ads look terrible or like sloppy. You know, you have to really open your mind up to what a well performing or high performing ad is. It's oftentimes not what you expect at all. And I see this sometimes too when I'm mentoring people. They sometimes want to wait until they have all the information right. They want to go through the entire curriculum before making any moves. And I have to really kind of drill it into people. Like, you have to implement as you're going because it's truly the only way to learn and to lessen the pressure on yourself. I'm actually revamping some stuff right now and I, I say in it right now, like, don't worry about installing conversions API right now. Like, yes, your data will be lower, but until you actually understand why this is important from setting your first ad live, it's going to feel way more overwhelming than once you have that experience and then come back to it. And that's so uncomfortable for some people. But really if you can release that and lean into it. I feel like that is such a cheat code for almost anything. Not just in business, but in life.
- [30:16]
A
Mm. Yeah. It's like I wouldn't critique your bouldering form if you had never been to bouldering class before. Right? You can't, I can't get. You have to thematically and like mentally and emotionally understand the thing to iterate on it. I love this brings, this brings us to our next, our next cheat code, which is you're not always being as chill as you think you are. Sometimes you're just hiding. And you've confused strategy resistance with spiritual alignment. It's costing you momentum. This is another reason why people procrastinate. Tell me more.
- [30:49]
B
Yeah, this I think goes hand in hand with spiritual bypassing, spiritual gaslighting. You know, I think there's a lot that happens in the online space where people think, oh, even if I feel a ping and like, I do care about this thing or I do want to say this thing, or I do want to bring up this concern with my coach, they sometimes like, yes, it's good to look at your own shit. Yes, you need to know when you're projecting. But a lot of times people can get caught up in that and they'll be like, oh, like this is all mine. So I'm not going to say anything because I really want to be able to integrate and just reflect about what this means about me. And it can be easy to get in that trap of being like, what does this actually just mean about me? Instead of just validating yourself and what you want and going for it, you know, whether that's saying something online, whether that's having a difficult conversation, whether that's launching something that you think. I've seen it before sometimes where people don't want to launch something because they'll be like, oh, well, I know so and so. And like they've launched it and I feel like it's just, you know, like I should let them have that space and whatever. And it's like, no, dude, like, like we're talking about before abundance. Like, come on, like do the thing, you know? And I think that people can get really stuck in that and they don't push the envelope. And I, I also think that this leeches over into a lot of areas too where we have to be really careful of, okay, where is something actually not worth our time or energy and where is something actually aligned with our integrity and our kind of inner purpose and like our soul at that deep level, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of people be like, oh, I'm not gonna bring it up. Oh, I'm not gonna bring it up because I don't want to, like, whatever. And it's like, don't do. But like, then you suffer. You suffer.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, that's. I could say so much about like what people are like, oh, that's just like a ping or whatever. And I'm like, no, like you need attunement anyways. Okay, our next cheat code. I think this is so important to. For people to understand free isn't free. It's an exchange of time and attention. So for example, like a freebie or a downloadable isn't really free. Why, why is this important to understand?
- [33:12]
B
Well, I mean, you get into this scenario where people will jam pack their free stuff because they get over concerned about proving that it's worth it. They're like, I really want to impress and then somebody will take the next step. But it's, it's not about that. When you think about people who often make the best clients the best customers, who are they? They're the people who know exactly what their problem is. They Are very invested in solving it. And then what's the third aspect? They want to solve it fast. They care about their time. Okay, a lot of people miss on that. I don't want to read a 50 page guide. I don't want to read a 50 page guide. You know, if you can solve my problem in one sentence, great. I don't need anything performed. I don't need any excess. For me, it's truly about. You want the best clients solve their problem in as little of their time and attention as possible. Especially if you are after done for you clients. So if you're a designer, if you are a video producer, podcast producer, like anything like that, especially if you're in that realm, you know, those kind of best fit clients, they don't want to DIY anything. They don't want, you know.
- [34:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, I've had a lot of people come to like pitch me things and they're like, well, Courtney, this podcast editing package includes five one hour calls with me. I'm like, I don't want to have one hour calls with you. I just want the problem of podcast editing to be solved. Like, I think that's so true. Like, don't overstack, just focus on solving the problem. Like actually saving time, refining the offer, making it smaller actually might be the.
- [34:47]
B
Definitely, definitely. Like it can be so simple these days. I know one time I downloaded a one pager from somebody and they're not somebody who I necessarily listen to a lot online, but they had this one thing and they were like, it's a one pager. And I downloaded, I was like, damn, that was so good. They just put like the media stuff and they got it all to fit on one page. And it's so smart because with something like that, not only is somebody going to remember that they're probably going to print it out, they're probably going to put it in front of them. Like the value automatically goes up, right? And now that person who created that is front of mind so much more. Because the simplicity and presentation, it's the same thing. Like, you know, instead of creating all these like hour and a half long free webinar. No, like give somebody the behind the scenes of how you got a specific result and do it in 10 to 15 minutes. Cool. That is value, you know, that is value.
- [35:40]
A
That's so powerful. I have never done a 10 to 15 minute offer or thing. And this is, I'm going to do it.
- [35:46]
B
You should do behind the scenes of like, you know how this thing went. I, I do a Lot of like launch recaps and stuff, like behind the scenes and people eat them up. Like it's so good because it's. You can do ultimate like un gatekeeping in that. Especially if you make it something that's like, sure, you could use as a lead magnet, but using those pieces to nurture your already existing list or audience is like gold. Like such an opportunity.
- [36:11]
A
Yeah. Another cheat code you have that you talk about is like tiny offers or trip wires. Is that what you're talking about here? Like a $12, 27 thing? Yeah.
- [36:20]
B
This could either be something that's free or it could be a tripwire. I definitely see the value in lead magnets, but the industry in the space just isn't what it was a long time ago. You know, I built my first online course and sold it in 2017. So that's kind of when I started out on that side of things and start building like those kinds of funnels and things are just so wildly different now. And there's so much value in a free league magnet. And I think it's wonderful to provide that value, but it doesn't prove that that person is willing to put money on their problem. So then what happens or what I see a lot of times is people will do this big push on a lead magnet. Then they've got a like 7 to 14 day series of launching and the launch doesn't go how they want it. And they think, oh, this offer is just terrible because nobody wanted it. Well, no, like you probably didn't have the highest quality leads that you could have had who are ready now. Some of the people for the free stuff are often ready in a couple of years from now. And there's nothing wrong with that. We can't, we can't push anybody's timeline. But if you want to really draw in people who are taking things seriously Now, I think that 30, like sub 30 is kind of where we're at now. It used to be sub 50 used to be able to do this really well. 37, $47 products. 27 is kind of a nice spot now. So anything under 27, that is my favorite thing and it's my favorite thing to run ads to. I have clients now who we don't even bother with lead magnets. We just run them straight to a low ticket offer. Like a tiny. That's a tiny offer. If you do use a lead magnet, that's where the tripwire. So the tripwire, for anybody listening who doesn't know what that is, it's something that's offered immediately after you sign up for the lead magnet. And that purpose there is to again, see, okay, what percentage of the people getting the lead magnet are signing up for this tripwire and are taking this year ready now. So then you're not spending, you know, 10,000 on an email list of people who got the freebie, not knowing when they're going to, you know, convert to the next step. Now it's like, okay, well, if 100 people signed up for the lead magnet, not a single person by the tripwire, you got to fix something. Don't keep going. Don't keep spending that money. You know, so that's why I really like these pieces.
- [38:26]
A
Okay, you're. I'm. I'm doing it. This is $27 offer. I saw a friend do this recently, actually. She was like, courtney, like, what I think you should change is she's like, when you pay, you pay attention. She's like, Charge 27 for your next webinar. Instead of making it free, you'll have less people, but you'll convert way higher.
- [38:43]
B
Percent. 100%.
- [38:45]
A
100%.
- [38:46]
B
100%.
- [38:47]
A
Okay. Speaking of pricing, our next cheat code is your underpricing isn't a strategy. It's a survival response. And maybe you're chasing approval instead of actually building authority.
- [39:01]
B
Yeah. Sometimes underpricing can be a strategy if we're being honest about where and why it's being used. Right. So, like, the first time, let's say a program is used, great underprices, you get people in, relieve the pressure off of you, get the results, whatever. Low ticket offers or tiny offers. Sure. Like, make it something that is worth, like, 100 bucks. But, you know, maybe you're offering it at 27, but where a lot of people end up getting caught up in this is when they have proof that their work is good. Right. They know. They know that the work is good and the clients are there, and they get addicted almost to that confirmation or to the. Yes. And instead of going through the process a little bit in their own world, kind of like what I was speaking to earlier being like, okay, how am I going to feel bringing in this money, fulfilling the service at this rate? You know, sometimes people underprice. They have resentment secretly about, like, fulfilling the clients. That price, you gotta fix that immediately. Because if you start to notice that you're in a place of severe underpricing. So some people will do that. And in that process, they're so focused, not only is the other person going to say yes and commit, but what is the other person going to think of my pricing when they see it? What is somebody going to think about me when they see my pricing and what I think about me? Right? And one of the thoughts that I think comes up for a lot of people is who do they think they are? Right? Especially if you're from like a small town or something, you know, who, who do they think they are charging that? That's ridiculous. Oh, my goodness, they must be so full. Right? You have to really work through that in order so that you can be compensated properly. Because, yeah, if you want to build a premium personal brand and you're really good at what you do, but you're not charging rates that align with it, it doesn't matter what else you do, you will not be perceived as that. It's just not how it works, right? You don't walk to a, you know, a Jaguar dealer and see a $9,000 price tag on the car, like, yeah.
- [41:04]
A
Wow. Yeah. I mean, that brings us to our next cheat code, which is if you want your brand to show up high end, stop showing up like a bargain bin. Your audience will never you more than you value yourself.
- [41:16]
B
It's exactly that. And it's not just even in pricing there, it's in how you interact with people. I think that's the biggest place that this makes a difference when I speak to that point. So where a lot of people are under positioning themselves and they don't even realize that they're doing it is by not holding boundaries. Whether it is with their audience, whether it is in the dms, whether it is with their clients. If you do that immediately, if you value yourself more than that and your time, everybody else does too. I hope. I heard this quote recently. I wish I could remember who I heard it from. They said, if you want to make a lot of money on a personal brand, be really, really good at what you do. It's a given. And number two, make yourself less available, right? Like, stop treating yourself as though everybody has access to you all the time. You know, I know a lot of people who have huge followings. And I'll be like, so what do you do with the DMs? And they'll be like, oh, like, I really try to reply to every single one. I'm like, okay, I get it on one hand, I get it. Like, that's nice. That's gonna catch up with you. And when we talk about the bargain bin thing, if people know that they can just access you all the time for free, like, people come to expect free labor from you? Do you want people to expect free labor from you? You have to ask yourself that question, right? Or even you look at clients and you know, are you replying to client emails on the weekends? Okay, so do you want your clients to expect that they can access you whenever, like you have to ask that question. That's a big part of the bargain bin thing, right? Treat yourself like you're not, like you're not always available for everything and everyone, all the time. You get to choose when you are.
- [42:54]
A
It's powerful.
- [42:55]
B
Wow.
- [42:56]
A
Well, I think that brings us nicely into our last cheat code, which is you say you want big income, but what you really want is freedom, rest and ease. Oh, tell me more.
- [43:06]
B
People want the things that the big income affords them. And I, you know, it makes sense, especially right now. I don't know what it's like in the States, but in Canada cost of living has gone like through the roof. Like absolutely through the roof. So I don't necessarily think it's that people want big income. Like I, I actually think that most people wouldn't care to make 10 million a year. I really don't think that. I think what most people want is a sense of safety in every sense of the word, in every sense of the definition, right? They want to know that they're going to be able to pay their bills. They want to know that they're going to be able to retire. They want to know that they can take a few weeks off and nothing terrible is going to happen. They want to know that they can attend their kids recitals. They want to know that they can spend time gardening in the, you know, in the summer. They want to know these things. So it's, it's interesting because I think when people get real with that too, that number and what that ends up being, when we talk about big money, that ends up being different for every single person, right? For some people they might be like, okay, I only really need to make like 70k a year or whatever, right? And other people might be like, okay, I have purpose and I know the things that I want to be able to do and the freedom that I need to have. And I need, you know, 250k a year for that. And for some people they have big, big purpose. And yeah, they, those people might want 10 million, you know, but most people just want to feel good. Most people just want to feel like they can be present once, once you're awake, I'll say once you're kind of out of ego driven goals. Once you are Present with yourself and in life you just want to be content and you want to have enough in your cup to do the things that you love and be there for the people that you love. That's what I believe anyway.
- [44:43]
A
That's so beautiful. And what a beautiful ethos as you're guiding people into more abundance. Like such a beautiful ethos for your own and others around you. Well, you're so amazing, Kayleigh. I really look up to you and I just think you're so rad. So Kaylee, how can people work with you? Where can they find you?
- [44:59]
B
First of all, thank you so much. I always get so flattered when you say that because I think the same of you. Yeah, I, I hang out on Instagram the most. So if you're looking to follow my content, that is the platform that I prioritize to. My handle is cjdk. I was silly and made my the first part of it my first two initials instead of my whole name. But yeah, that's where I hang out the most. And then if anybody's looking to work for me, work for me. He's full at the moment. Team's full at the moment. So not hiring right now. But if anybody wants to work with me, the two best places are going to be my group programs. So Meta Ads Academy, which is where if you really want to be able to take control over your own ads and have really profitable ads and learn in a way where you have access to somebody who is really on top of things, the program gets updated between every single cohort. I'm currently doing a round of updates right now and it is a lot because that platform is changing constantly right now. So that's one place and then the other place would be my mastermind is a great spot as well. So that's where if you are a service provider, a coach, consultant, anything like that and you want to be working on your business more holistically. So a real blend of the kind of, you know, self awareness piece and energetic piece but really blended with cold hard strategy, then that's the best place as well. I do still do done a few ads management but I'm not gonna lie, I get inquiries that like every day. So I'm not going to be like oh yeah, come work with me in that. You can send me inquiry. I may or may not be able to you on but yeah, that's pretty much it.
- [46:26]
A
Amazing. Beautiful. Well thank you so much. Okay y', all, if you like this episode, you would love, love my Patreon. Okay, you get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources and a lot of juicy. Okay, So I hope to see you on my Patreon.