Loading summary
Transcript95 lines
- [00:00]
Paul Austin
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Courtney Johnson
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper.
- [00:06]
Unknown
I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I.
- [00:08]
Courtney Johnson
Am here to un gatekeep the gatekeep. Thank you so much for being here.
- [00:12]
Unknown
Enjoy.
- [00:16]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, Paul. Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper.
- [00:18]
Paul Austin
Thank you. It's great to be here.
- [00:20]
Courtney Johnson
Super happy that you're here. So on Slay the Gatekeeper, we un gatekeep certain topics that might be under the radar, might be purposely gatekept or might be gatekept for other reasons. And I feel like psychotic, especially microdosing, is quite gatekept. I mean, just living in Austin, I'm blessed to be a part of this entrepreneurial community here where there's these ultra successful people, I mean, like millionaires and billionaires, and they all microdose and they don't talk about it publicly. It's like their secret that they're afraid to talk about. So I want to preface with that, that this is something that a lot of people are doing that they are keeping under wraps and for good reason.
- [00:57]
Paul Austin
You know, these are, These are Schedule 1 substances. They're largely illegal. I mean, we've seen some shifts and change in the last few years. Oregon legalized psilocybin mushrooms. Colorado has legalized a lot of these plant medicines. But by and large, these are still Schedule 1 substances according to the federal government. And I think what's so fascinating is 61% of Americans now support legal psychedelic therapy. The number of people who took mushrooms last year, 8 million Americans took mushrooms. Last year, 4 million of those were microdosing. And the number of people who took a psychedelic quadrupled from 2019 to 2023. So although it's still, you know, somewhat underground, we're seeing the spores are really starting to pop. And more and more people are finding out about this. And for many reasons, Mental health, productivity, leadership, relationships, healing, transformation. There's a lot of reasons and intentions why people come into this work. And they're just really fascinating. Drugs, medicines, substances, whatever you want to call them.
- [02:00]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [02:00]
Courtney Johnson
I find that in my work, helping people build their personal brand. There's two main ways that I recommend or main reasons why I recommend and microdosing. One is obviously for creativity. Like if you want to have good content, get out good ideas, creativity. But another one is limiting beliefs, like overcoming fear of being seen. So I'm curious, in your work, you're running these cohorts, helping people learn how to microdose, giving them a safe container to do so, and I'm sure express their feelings and, you know, fears and desires and everything. What is their intentions for coming in?
- [02:32]
Paul Austin
Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned creativity and sort of the limiting beliefs. What I frame that as is neurobiological neuroplasticity, because neuroplasticity has become more of a buzzword. And neuroplasticity is the capacity for the brain to change and shift and adapt. Like, we have been told this story that when you're 25 or 26, your brain stops changing. And that's actually not true. There are things that you can do, meditate, breath work, cold plunge that help to develop neuroplasticity, and microdosing helps with developing that neuroplasticity. And then the second thing, limiting beliefs. I look at that as courage, right? Having the courage to actually face and confront ourselves, to realize like, what stor no longer serve us and to be able to step into a new story. And so when it comes to people who I'm working with, maybe one on one or in a group coaching container, I would say the two main outcomes that people are looking for is they're looking to feel better, right? They're depressed, they don't have a great mood, they maybe have low energy, they've been stuck in a rut for a while and they're not sure, like how to get out of it. And so when they start to actively microdose, it really helps them to get a pep in their step again. It kind of is a nice sort of push in the tush, right? Like they're able to take that next step that they've been avoiding and put themselves out there a little bit more. So sometimes that's framed as like they're on an ssri, right? They're on Prozac, Lexapro, Zoloft. They've been depressed and they want to get off of that and they want to feel better without having to be dependent on a medication. Other times that's just like they're in a transition point or they've had a maybe difficult or challenging period in life and they're looking for a little bit more, more energy. The second reason then is more for like flow and I would say productivity, right, that there are people who, they feel good, right? They sort of, their glass is full, but they really want to explore and expand what else might be out there. And so creative inspiration that might come through a vision for like a new project or an idea, a way to elevate, you know, a relationship with like a loved one or a spouse or a partner. That tends to be the other main reason why folks are coming into these containers. And clinically, like some of the early clinical research on microdosing, micro dosing supports those intentions. That the three main benefits that they've noticed from the clinical research on microdosing is that it helps you have a better mood, it helps you to have more energy, and it helps you to have better sleep. And I think all of us, better mood, better energy, better sleep, those are three things that we can all get behind. And it's interesting because I kind of look at microdosing as another lifestyle practice. So just like we are mindful about the food that we eat, the way that we exercise, the way that we sleep, I think we can also be mindful of how do we engage with, with microdosing in a way that's intentional. Because a lot of the benefits that people notice from microdosing are systemic. Meaning it's not just sort of one isolated thing that they're noticing. They're noticing multiple benefits in multiple dimensions of their life.
- [05:28]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I mean, in my own experience, microdosing has been so helpful for me. I got off of ADHD stimulant medication.
- [05:36]
Paul Austin
Oh, wow.
- [05:37]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that was. I thought, I thought I'd be on that shit forever. I really stopped drinking a lot. Like, not entirely, but like cut back significantly. My life is just so much better. I'm so much more creative. And yeah, it's, it's really crazy that it again is so underground or people are gatekeeping this because you're bringing your hundreds, maybe even thousands of people are coming through these containers every month. Like that is crazy. So people are coming to you because either they're, you know, feeling low, they're in a rut, they want to break out of that, or they're feeling pretty good and they want to optimize. I want to get more creative, more productive, see what else is out there, expand their horizons. Are these young people, old people, single people, like what types of people are coming to these?
- [06:23]
Paul Austin
Well, I think that's the interesting thing about psychedelics. So we do these. It's essentially like a six week group coaching container. We call it the microdosing experience. We also have like a 10 month certification program, which is our practitioner training program, which is, as you can imagine, six weeks versus 10 months to 10 months is a lot more in depth. But the commonality between both of those programs and people who work with us is, you know, we've had people as young as 19 or 20 and as old as like 80 to 85. We have people who are retired, we have people who are just starting their careers. We have people who are transitioning in their careers. We have a lot of folks who, you know, maybe they, they've hit a rut or a challenge in their relationship and they're looking to the substance to potentially help with that. People who are coming, you know, they want to quit smoking or they want to get off antidepressants. So it's, it's literally like the, and it's incredibly diverse sort of crowd. Now I would say there are probably three main archetypes that are part of that. One is someone who is, let's say a stay at home mom or like a mother to children. They feel a little lonely, they feel a little isolated. Maybe they've been on some psychiatric medications and they think microdosing might be able to help support them in that process. Right. So I would say that's one main archetype. And that archetype came from a book that was written in 2017 called a really Good Day How Microdosing Made a Difference in My Mood, My Marriage and My Life. It was written by a woman named Ilette Waldman. So that's a great memoir about a 30 day microdosing protocol. I would say the other archetype is like kind of the tech bro archetype, which I would consider myself to be sort of slightly associated with. I don't fully identify as a tech bro, but you could also call it like the tech consciousness bro. You know, folks who are like a little more open minded, they like to be more productive, they're looking at this to have more energy, to have more focus. And then I would say the third main archetype are people who, they're like in some form of transition. And that might be that they're retiring, that might be that they've quit their job and they're looking to become an entrepreneur. That might be that they're trying to get off antidepressants and sort of on a thing. But they're in some form of transition and they're looking to microduce to help with that process. But as you can imagine, with 4 million people microdosing in 2023 in the United States, it's, it's every, you know, it's a super, super diverse range of people. And I think we're only at the, the very beginnings of this. You know, my, my bet is that within 10 years that microdoses of psychedelics will replace most conventional psychiatric medications, right? Like specifically the SSRI class, but also ADHD medications and even potentially benzodiazepines anti anxiety. I think we're just at the outset of research and discovery around what these molecules and substances can do. And I'm really excited for some of the breakthroughs that we'll find for psychiatric conditions. Because I mean, as you've personally experienced and as I know from working with so many people, a lot of these medications are meant for short term use and they end up becoming addictive and you can't get off of them and they create a crutch in dependency. And we're often told it's a chronic illness, you'll never get off of it. And I just think that's so not true. And so giving people more options to feel empowered and feel like they have agency and they can make choices and changes in their lives. I think that's what microdosing does a really good job of.
- [09:52]
Courtney Johnson
What was your journey in microdosing?
- [09:55]
Paul Austin
That's a great question.
- [09:56]
Courtney Johnson
You turned probably an experiment into your whole career.
- [10:01]
Paul Austin
Yeah, the guinea pig. Yeah, the guinea pig. Entrepreneur, model. So I'm 34. When I was 19, I tried psychedelics for the first time. And I grew up in a pretty, I would say, like traditional family environment. So church every Sunday, no exceptions. My parents are very anti drug. You know, I was so sheltered that Before I was 13, I couldn't watch PG13 movies and my parents wouldn't let me play like violent video games basically.
- [10:32]
Courtney Johnson
Where did you grow up?
- [10:33]
Paul Austin
West Michigan. So Grand Rapids.
- [10:35]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [10:35]
Paul Austin
Which is. Yeah, Midwest, small town. Like I grew up in a suburb of Grand Rapids.
- [10:41]
Courtney Johnson
I grew up in like Twin Cities area.
- [10:42]
Paul Austin
Oh yes.
- [10:43]
Courtney Johnson
So similar.
- [10:44]
Paul Austin
You get it, you get it? Yeah. So when my parents found out at the age of 16 that I was starting to get into illegal drugs, as you can imagine, that wasn't a pleasant experience for them. They had to sit me down one Sunday after church after they found out that I had been smoking weed. And my dad looked at me and he was like, you know, I haven't been this disappointed since my brother died in a car accident. Like that's how insane it was for them that their only son was starting to smoke cannabis. Like, they just could not believe it. It was just so outside of their worldview. They were how you were the golden child. How could you smoke this illegal drug? And I was like, I know. And then a few years later, that same friend who introduced me to cannabis introduced me to mushrooms. And I had not microdoses at first. These were like about 2 grams of dried mushrooms. And then I tried LSD a similar amount. And I did it maybe 20 times through college and university. And just again and again, I found the experiences to be very insightful. It started me down this path of personal development. So I started reading a lot more and studying and doing more public speaking, pushing myself more in the classwork that I was engaged in in university. And it really inspired me to become a digital nomad. So when I was 21, I moved to Turkey where I taught English for a year. I got really into the four hour work week by Tim Ferriss and being a digital nomad. And so I moved to Thailand soon after that. And while I was living in Thailand, this was 2015, so about 10 years ago, I listened to a podcast on Tim Ferriss about microdosing. And I, I thought back to those experiences that I had with, with higher doses of psychedelics. And I recognized that, you know, for a couple weeks after each of those experiences, I would feel better, I would be more present, I would be more connected, I would meditate more often. I would be more mindful about the food that I ate. And then naturally, after two or three weeks, some of that would dissipate and some of the old pat and behaviors would sort of come back in. And so when I saw microdosing, it was like, I wonder if this is a way that I can sort of elongate that window of neuroplasticity. Like, it can actually become easier for me to make healthier behavioral changes on an ongoing basis. And so I just started to experiment with microdosing. In 2015, I. I was living in Thailand. I went back to the States to visit family. I bought a sheet of acid on the Dark Web at the time. This is how I got into Bitcoin as well. I bought a sheet of acid, I brought it with me to Budapest. I lived in Budapest that summer of 2015. And then I just started to like, cut off really, really tiny pieces of the, the sheet of acid, microdose it. I did it twice a week for seven months. And this was right at the time. Then when there was a lot of media that started to come out about it, like Rolling Stone published a feature and Wired published a feature. And I just sort of saw, I was like, I think this is going to be the next thing after cannabis. I think there will be a massive reevaluation. So I just started to publish free educational content, you know, on third wave, just guides about how to microdose. What, what's the appropriate dosage? What's the sort of scientific research that exists? Because as I started to dig in deeper to psychedelics. Like, when I did it in my 19, in my. In my, like, teenage years and 20s, I just thought I felt good, but this was still illegal, so I was still. It was still harmful. Like, it wasn't good for me. But then as I started to get into the research, I came to realize that, holy shit, we've been. We've been doing this for thousands of years, right? This isn't a new thing. And we actually had quite a bit of research in the 50s and 60s that showed that it was clinically effective for a range of conditions. And so as I started to dig into the research and open it up, that's what then informed this sort of third wave of psychedelics. That the first wave was the ancient and indigenous use. The second wave was the sort of clinical or modern application. And the third wave is the bridge between those two. And I think that's always what I've really wanted to be for broader culture is utilize microdosing as a bridge between sort of being caught in the matrix and recognizing that, you know, we have way more power than we give ourselves credit for and we are way more capable than we ever believed that we are.
- [14:50]
Courtney Johnson
That's really cool. I didn't know where third wave comes from. Yeah. I think for the listeners that are curious about learning a little bit more about the history of this, the book Chasing the Scream is really great by Johann Hari.
- [15:01]
Paul Austin
Yeah, I have not. I've heard about it.
- [15:02]
Courtney Johnson
Oh, it's great.
- [15:03]
Paul Austin
It's about addiction, right?
- [15:05]
Courtney Johnson
It's the war on drugs. The history of the war on drugs.
- [15:08]
Paul Austin
He wrote another one called.
- [15:09]
Courtney Johnson
He did write another one.
- [15:10]
Paul Austin
Lost Connections.
- [15:11]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, he's got a lot of great writer. But, yeah, this one is essentially about how, you know, they needed something to kind of bring together America for their political campaign. So it was this war on drugs. It sounded nice. It sounded great. Like, kind of like Michelle Obama, kids should eat healthy. Like, everyone can get behind that, you know, but this was no drugs. Everyone can get behind that. But what it did was it pushed out these native people's practices. It criminalized psychedelics, and it classified them as, you know, no positive use, no. And extremely harmful. And anyways, it just goes through the history of it. So I highly recommend, if you want the context, because I still work with people that I'll recommend microdosing, and they'll be like, but I don't want to get addicted. I don't want to be harmed. And I'm like, if. Even if we start the very. I think, like, the very lightest super sub perceptual would be like a tiny dose of psilocybin. You literally cannot get addicted to psilocybin. Like I want to see somebody try, I want to see somebody actually try to get addicted. Anyways, curious what you, what fears might come up and how you address those fears.
- [16:17]
Paul Austin
Well, that's why I love microdosing, because the biggest fear is, I mean, what do you think is the biggest fear? If you're talking to someone about psychedelics, what is usually the, the biggest fear?
- [16:26]
Courtney Johnson
I'm brainwashed cuz in Austin everyone's like, yeah, great, but, but my clients that live elsewhere are either like, it's going to hurt me, it's going to make me crazy, it's going to scramble my brain, right?
- [16:37]
Paul Austin
The make me crazy I think is the, that's the big fear. It's I, I'm going to do a bunch of mushrooms or I'm going to do a bunch of LSD and it's going to fry my brain. I'm not going to be the same person again.
- [16:48]
Courtney Johnson
Which you might, you won't.
- [16:51]
Paul Austin
That is true, but in a negative way, right? Like I'm going to have a bad trip. That, that I think I notice is the biggest fear. It's like, okay, the CL clinical research is interesting. I see that there could be potential benefit around this, but I'm really, I'm really scared to just jump in the deep end right away. And so usually the way that I talk, talk about that with people is well, like, I usually use the metaphor of like when we learn how to swim, right? So when we're kids, 3, 4, 5 years old, we went to the community pool and if we had good parents, reasonable parents, they didn't just tell us to jump in the deep end and try to figure it out because that would have been traumatic for a lot of us. They usually at least my parents, I'll speak for myself. I had a teacher, I had the sort of inflatable things around my arms. I was in the shallow end. I kind of learned how to navigate that space before I went much deeper into the deep end. And I think microdosing offers a similar opportunity for people who are interested in the tangible benefits of psychedelics. Because although we are focused a lot in this conversation around microdosing, at high doses, there's really transformative outcomes, right? Like incredibly transformative, like night and day transformative outcomes. And to generate those outcomes for oneself, you have to be really fully willing to dive in. And a lot of folks just, they don't have that willingness. So by starting to microdose, seeing how that goes, I tell people, start low, go slow, right? You can always take more, you can't take less. Hunter S. Thompson, who is. Do you know Hunter S. Thompson, right, the gonzo journalist, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. He had a quote that once you buy the ticket, you take the ride, or once you punch the ticket, you take, take the ride. And that's true if you take a bunch of acid or mushrooms. So it's like just start low, go slow, it's non addictive. And I think you make a great point, right? We, because of how we've been conditioned, we just lump all of these illegal drugs in together. So we assume cocaine, heroin and psychedelics are all addictive, they're all dangerous because they're drugs without recognizing that actually cocaine and heroin are addictive and they can be dangerous. And psychedelics interactive way differently than heroin and cocaine do on the body and brain. And that in fact, clinical research shows that they heal addictions. So they aren't even addictive. They heal addictions because again, as you and I both know, if you take five grams of mushrooms, you don't necessarily want to keep taking five grams of mushrooms. It's not like heroin where you're like, you do a little and then you do a little bit more, a little bit more. It's not like that at all. And I think microdosing, I look at microdosing as creatine has become more in the sort of health and wellness conversation, right? There's a lot of research now on how creatine is great for the body, great for the brain, great for depression, great for mental health. I think LSD and, and mushrooms as a microdose. It's similar to creatine, right? It's just, it's a supplement. It's like a supplement that you can take pretty consistently. There's a wide range of benefits for it. It's not going to be addictive. You can stop at any time, but if you do it, you'll find that your life is better off for it.
- [19:52]
Unknown
You know that feeling when nobody really gets what you're going through, when you're surrounded by all of these people, but you somehow still feel alone. I lived that reality for years until I discovered the power of healing and community. Reinvigorate and Restore is a luxury six day retreat in Cape Town designed specifically for women who are ready to move beyond survival mode to begin living your best life truly and authentically. Imagine six days in Cape Town April 14th through 19th by the way in a luxurious villa where everything is designed for your restoration. Morning yoga overlooking the mountain. Sound healing sessions Authentic connection with people who understand your journey without explanation. Imagine six days with people who truly get it, who see you, hear you and walk along side you in your healing journey. Time is limited so book your spot for April. Again. The retreat is April 14th through 19th and you can visit survivorsriseretreat.com to book a call with Paula to learn more. Your people are waiting for you. Nexus Point is a best in class outsourcing company that helps business owners and entrepreneurs scale efficiently and profitably by leveraging the global talent pool. Founded by entrepreneurs like yourselves, Nexus Point uses its vast infrastructure to find, hire and train best in class talent from around the globe at just 20% of the cost of hiring locally. Nexus Point will provide you with pre vetted talent with college degrees and at least three years of work experience, often with US based business owners. From executive assistants to social media managers, customer service reps, data entry and research analysts and other back office functions, Nexus Point can help take you and your business to the next most profitable level yet. Use the special link or mention slay the gatekeeper and have the $500 search fee completely waived. Delegation is so important, but it can be so hard to find the right talent. So I highly recommend checking out Nexus Point again. You can book a call@g o.n e x u s p t IO CourtneyJohnson or visit the link in the Show Notes Today's episode is sponsored by my Sunrise Content Club. I created Sunrise Content Club because I really desired accountability in my content creation. How it works is we meet on Zoom every single weekday from 8 to 9am we get on the Zoom, we play some fun music, we have a little mindful moment and then I give you a content prompt and we spend about 45 minutes working on this prompt together. In this time you can ask questions, get feedback on your content and at the end we all share our wins and we also share our content that we have created during that time so we all get an initial boost because we are liking and commenting on each other's posts. There's also a really fun and supportive group chat where you can ask questions, share your content, get accountability. The Sunrise Content Club is an incredible way to stay consistent in your content creation and have community support. It is especially helpful with folks with ADHD who find value in body doubling. For a very limited time. You can join the Sunrise content club for just 99amonth. This is a very special Limited time, founders rate. And I am so excited to see you guys there. Join the Sunrise Content Club today.
- [23:22]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I find that they kind of kick me out. Like mushrooms and LSD will kick me out. If I have an experience or if I've maybe done four days or something of microdosing, my body will literally tell me, like, no, stop. And I, like, actually couldn't. It's almost like if you eat a big meal and someone's like, here's dessert. And you're like, nah, I don't want that. I'm good. Like, my body's telling me no dessert. That's how I feel. When microdosing or macro dosing or anything, it, like, it will tell you when you're done for sure. It'll make it clear sometimes very clear. Yeah, yeah.
- [23:52]
Paul Austin
And that's part of the, what I call the skill of psychedelics. It's like, how do you learn how to listen, you know, and attune to what the, the, the, the medicine, the substance is telling you. Because, you know, we have been using these substances for like, forever, for thousands of years. And there's an intelligence in these substances. And so when we start to take them and work with them, we communicate to them, but they also communicate to us, as sort of weird as that sounds. And so I think that capacity to be receptive and listen means that you can have a really healthy relationship with it. And, you know, I haven't done a high dose of mushrooms in a very long time. The last time I drank Ayahuasca was 18 months ago. I do LSD pretty consistently. I did 30 micrograms of LSD yesterday. I'm like experimenting with the new protocol. So different times call for different substances. And what is most important is that you keep the awareness of what's my relationship to this thing? Right. Is it helping me or is it becoming something that I'm just numbing myself through or distracting myself through? And you know, you live in Austin, you've seen this, we see this with ketamine. I also see this with ayahuasca, where you have people who will get into psychedelics and they'll just go every weekend. And at some point it's like, okay, that might be helpful in the, in the beginning just to kind of get the momentum going. But there are plenty of people that I know that just get lost in these drugs. And so I think that's also an important part to emphasize is there's a balance here. They're great to do, but they're also great to respect and not to lean on or utilize as a crutch too much.
- [25:22]
Courtney Johnson
I totally agree. I think that having groundedness in what, what you're doing, which I really admire about you, like you are very grounded in your work. You know, some people get a little too airy fairy where it's hard for them to share the message and connect with people in the matrix because they're not in transmission. Not. Yeah, exactly.
- [25:43]
Paul Austin
I know what you mean. Yeah.
- [25:44]
Courtney Johnson
I appreciate that you are so grounded in your approach. So I'm curious, your personal brand, you have such a strong personal brand. I know that you speak, you write, you create. What was the turning point of like, all right, now I'm going to go public with myself. And was that scary?
- [26:02]
Paul Austin
Well, I'm a Leo, so I think there's a bit of a natural disposition to sort of wanting to be out in front, you know, When I was a junior at university, I think it was 20 years old, I took a public speaking class. And it was one of those classes that was like one time a week, three hours in the evening, an elective, you know, I wasn't required for anything. I was just like, I think this would be good to do. And it ended up becoming one of my most impactful classes that I took because I learned how to get up. I learned sort of the fundamentals of speaking and what public speaking entails. And then immediately after that, I taught English and Turkey for a year. So I was always teaching in front of a class and I love to teach. So I think my love for teaching then led me into a more public sort of Lens where in 2016, 2017, I just started organizing my own talks. I would pair up with local psychedelic societies all over the states, in Europe, organized events on microdosing, sort of gave an overview and a talk around it. And because I'd love to teach and educate, it just sort of felt like a natural flow. Now I think the deeper part of your question is like, how did I kind of hold that with knowing it was so illegal and I was putting myself out there. So the first ever book I published was in 2016. I just did like a self published book through Amazon, like a 80 to 100 page book. And I remember I published that under a pseudonymous, I think was Tom Williams was the pseudonym, just something very random. And then soon after that, I just was feeling more and more into it and I was like, you know, I really think what the thing that I can offer in this space that other people can't is the courage to be public about my Use. Right. Because I'm not a medical doctor, I'm not a clinical therapist. I'm not famous. I'm just sort of this dude who started talking about psychedelics openly. And so I was like, I think. Think. What I can most offer is the courage to be transparent and open about my use, accepting the risk that comes with that, but knowing where the line is. And so when I speak, I'm very open about the fact that I still work with psychedelics. I'm also very clear that in no way do I distribute Schedule 1 substances. This is very much for personal use. And I always encourage people, when the time is right, to be open with their friends and family, to talk about it, to be transparent. Because these experiences often mean so much to us. And I think, as we were talking about at the beginning, in terms of how much they are gatekept, a lot of people don't feel safe enough to be open with their family and their friends because they're worried about the judgment or the shame or the criticism that might come their way. And so whether we talk, whether we sort of communicate it through words or, I think the most impactful thing is just to communicate it with the way that you are. Because what I've noticed with a lot of folks who do this. This sort of work with plant medicine is they will completely change. And then folks in their life will start to ask, like, what did you do? Like, how. How have you changed? What impacted you? And then that's an invitation to start to. To start to tell your story. So, you know, I've been in this game 10 years now. I think third wave, we've reached maybe 30 million people with our content, Published a book. I've been up on stages. I started a retreat center in the Netherlands. You know, I run retreats in Costa Rica. I've only had one issue, and that.
- [29:25]
Courtney Johnson
What government was this?
- [29:27]
Paul Austin
This was the Department of Homeland Security, okay. Which. So this is just a. A wise word of warning. I got flagged coming back from Costa Rica into lax, and they got my passport, and they're like, okay, we want to. We want to search all your. All your. All your baggage. I'm like, no problem. You can search all my baggage. So they went in, they searched all my baggage. They were looking for mushrooms specifically. Like, I could tell. Somehow I got flagged in the system, because even like a month before that, I had had global entry for 10 years, and randomly they just revoked my global entry. Like, it just disappeared one day, and I'm like, something's going on. So they pulled me aside, searched my bag, brought out a team of six people and they have this drug testing machine called the Gemini. Tested all these things in my bag. I had different supplement to see if it had illegal drugs. Nothing was in there. They put all my stuff in my bag, said see you later, and that's it. That's the only issue or problem I've ever had. I don't know if the CIA or the FBI or the dea, I'm on some sort of list that could potentially be true. But I think we were talking about this before we started recording. I just don't think these three letter government agencies care about psychedelics anymore. They're much more focused on fentanyl, almost explicitly fentanyl, but also cocaine or other drugs that are related to trafficking and crime. They recognize the clinical potential and benefit. And I just think we kind of live in this age now where it's like they're still illegal but a lot of people are doing it and very few people are getting in trouble for doing it.
- [30:52]
Courtney Johnson
That is true. There are very few arrests. I think obviously it's something to be very cautious of.
- [30:59]
Paul Austin
Yeah, this is not like the advice to like just go off and openly buy illegal drugs.
- [31:04]
Courtney Johnson
But I've seen, I've seen the same thing in my circles. It does seem like it's less, I don't know, gone after than other substances, which makes me kind of think like, oh, are they doing some of this? Maybe they're gatekeeping this. Because also, if you've ever done psychedelics, you cannot possibly want to revoke this for other people.
- [31:23]
Paul Austin
Right.
- [31:24]
Courtney Johnson
Unless you're totally evil and you don't want other people to have personal power.
- [31:28]
Paul Austin
Well, and this is, this is like the history of psychedelics.
- [31:31]
Courtney Johnson
Yes, right.
- [31:32]
Paul Austin
That if we look at, I mean, what a lot of folks don't realize is pre Christian, the ancient Greeks and the ancient Romans, they had something called the Eleusinian Mysteries and they drank a beverage in those Eleusinian Mysteries that was made of air gut, which is a fungus that grows on rye. It's the same thing that LSD is made from. So essentially the ancient Greeks and the ancient Romans were drinking lsd. And the people that participated in this were like Plato, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Pythagoras, Cicero, like all of the really sort of intellectual elite. When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire, it was 307 AD they shut it down. They're like, we no longer want you to have access to this. And then when basically Europe colonized you Know, the Amazon and the Incans and Mexico. One of the first things that they did is they took away all the. The psychedelics. Because when you have a psychedelic experience, you. You sort of have this recognition that, like, in a way you are God, right? And that allows for a lot of power and that level of power only a certain, you know, it's kind of like the. The priestly class usually holds. And so hierarchy in mainstream religion or hierarchy and mainstream government is really important. And so all of a sudden, if you. All these people waking up to the truth of who they are, that causes a lot of disruption. And so better to, you know, gatekeep it, right? And when you invited me on the podcast, I was like, slay the gatekeeper. I was like, this is such. The psychedelics are such the perfect topic for this because they have been gate kept for literally thousands of years. And it's always this thing of they open and then they close and they open and they close. And I think this time we're at a point in time where I think microdosing can be the thing that allows it to really spread into the mainstream and everyone can access it without having to get their socks rock.
- [33:22]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, it is so gatekept. I really care about information equity, and I think that the gaps in our lifestyles, our income, our quality of life, our health is just an information equity gap. It's not a needs gap, it's not a resource gap. It's information. So if we can get information out, that is how we can create more equality in the world. And that's my dream. What's your dream?
- [33:47]
Paul Austin
I mean, my dream is for psychedelics to be legal and accessible to everyone. I would say that's my most sort of focused and pointed dream, is I will consider my career, quote, unquote, or my vocation, my ambitions to be successful when the majority of adults in the United States or North America or Europe have legal access to be able to work with psychedelics if they want to. I think my dream beyond that is that we figure out how to work in harmony with the natural environment and not against it. I think there's a lot of work still to be done on regeneration of our ecosystems. And I think one of the most fundamental lessons psychedelics teach is that there is no other meaning. You are intimately connected to everything around you. And so when you take care of the things that are outside of you, most especially the environment, it will take care of you. And so I think my larger dream is that psychedelics change business. For the good that they make business a force for regeneration rather than extraction. And that the wisdom of psychedelics will influence sort of the leaders and builders of tomorrow to create ecosystems that are much more. Yeah. Equitable and healthier. You know, at the end of the.
- [34:55]
Courtney Johnson
Day, that is so beautiful and so important.
- [34:57]
Paul Austin
Yeah.
- [34:58]
Courtney Johnson
So for. There's going to be some listeners that have definitely heard me talk about microdosing are going to be a little curious. And those that are already doing it and already involved, for those that are already involved, they already get it. How can they support your dream and your movement? Is it sharing their story? Is it some sort of political advocacy? Like, what can somebody like me do?
- [35:18]
Paul Austin
So we have a nonprofit that's called the Microdosing Collective, and I'm gonna introduce you. I don't know if you know Ali Shaper yet, but she just moved to Austin, and I have to connect you two. So Ali and I started this as a nonprofit with a legal friend of ours, Josh Capel. And the intention of the Microdosing Collective is to create regulatory policy so anyone can buy microdoses legally. They know that they've been third party tested. They know they're super healthy. So I would say check out the Microdosing Collective if you want to, like, get involved and support this and, and. And consider, like, the advice that I would give to someone like you is consider just deepening your educational process. You know, we have a training program, which is great, but there are other ways to listen to podcasts, to read books. Like, I have a podcast that I've hosted for many years in the space, but just to become a little bit even more familiar with some of maybe the science and the research and maybe a little bit of the history. And that way, if people come up to you and ask you questions about, you know, what's going on, you can be a really good advocate for the power of these medicines and what they can do. So that would be sort of. My second point of advice is go deeper into this. I mean, once you get into psychedelics, it's just like a. It's like an onion that just keeps peeling. You know, that's even why I chose it as a vocation. Ten years ago, I was like, I don't think I'd ever get bored with this, because psychedelics reveal the self, and the self is infinite. And so if there are ways to go into that infinite sense of self and explore, and psychedelics are a tool to do that, then sign me up, because I can just keep myself entertained for the rest of time.
- [36:55]
Courtney Johnson
Basically, for those that are like, all right, I want to try this. Maybe I'm not quite ready yet. What would you recommend as a precursor? Is that learning? Is that something like breath work or yoga, meditation?
- [37:08]
Paul Austin
That's a great question. All of it, yeah. So modalities that bring you into a place of center, peace, equanimity, quiet. So usually the first thing I say is, go to a float tank. Have you been in a float tank?
- [37:20]
Courtney Johnson
I have not.
- [37:20]
Paul Austin
But you know what they are.
- [37:21]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [37:22]
Paul Austin
So it's like you're, like, in a, like, egg pod. It's saline. You just sit there for 45 minutes. There's no sound. You can't see anything. It's just dark. And you just sit sort of in silence for 45 minutes. I say, go do that. You know, after that, maybe try breath work. After breath work, maybe try a cold plunge, Right. And then after a cold plunge, maybe try a microdose. So I'd say float tank, breathwork, cold plunge, microdose. And that's because the float tank helps you become familiar with silence. The breath work helps you to become familiar with how you breathe and ways to better breathe. The cold plunge helps you to learn how to regulate your breath under stress, which can happen with psychedelics. And then microdosing is you actually get to see what it feels like. And there's no rush. Right. And I mentioned this earlier in the episode, but if you do decide to take a psychedelic, you know, start low and go slow, you can always take more. There's no rush. Take your time with it and maybe find a friend or a coach or a mentor or a therapist, someone that you can lean on who has walked the walk and who can give you a little bit of guidance and advice. And who, if you need to call someone, you can call them. I think having someone in your corner is really helpful in that process. And then do it, you know, and be open to experiment and be open to learning and be open to what may come up. Recognize that microdosing is not like other substances, that it does take some time. Right. Two or three times a week for usually a month is what we tell people. And a lot of the benefits that we talked about today, better mood, better sleep, better energy, These are really great benefits. But some people also notice that, oh, that anger that I've repressed for so long is starting to come up, or that that grief or that sadness that I've repressed for so long is starting to come. So also being open and accepting to, like, all of the emotions and not trying to push them back down or not being sort of self critical or self judgmental about them, just allowing a space where those can be processed and opened up, I think is a really powerful aspect that, that microdosing brings. Brings to people.
- [39:23]
Courtney Johnson
That's great. Well, how can people find you, how can they follow you? And how can they join one of your cohorts?
- [39:29]
Paul Austin
So the Third Wave co. Or just search Third Wave Microdosing or Third Wave Paul Austin. We run a cohort every, every quarter for the microdosing experience. That's group coaching. We guide you through a structured six week microdosing protocol. I think for your audience that would be a really great fit. And if there's anyone who's listening to this, who's a coach or practitioner or energy worker or therapist, someone who wants to deepen into psychedelics. We also offer the certification program with the Intensive in Costa Rica. We have a podcast, we have a newsletter. So everything that's third wave related or psychedelic related people can find at the Third Wave co. And I'm also on social. You've seen these tweets that I've posted for a ton of fun. What's up?
- [40:14]
Courtney Johnson
Are they fake tweets?
- [40:14]
Paul Austin
What do you mean by fake tweets?
- [40:15]
Courtney Johnson
Like you make them on Canva?
- [40:17]
Paul Austin
No, I tweet them. Oh, and you screenshot them and then I screenshot them. Well, now my assistant does it. I set up a process, I put it in Instasize, I resize it on Instasize, and then I post it.
- [40:29]
Courtney Johnson
Okay.
- [40:29]
Paul Austin
And my trick, I mean, we're going a bit off tangent now, but my trick is I do all these tweets because tweets are the lowest energy product production.
- [40:36]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [40:37]
Paul Austin
And then I see what performs well. So I'll do like three or four tweets a day. And then out of those tweets that perform well in the week, I'll pick like the top four or five and then those will get reposted to Instagram and LinkedIn. So that's sort of the flow that I have right now.
- [40:48]
Courtney Johnson
Ooh, we got a little content strategy cheat code here. I love that.
- [40:52]
Paul Austin
And then I'll use, sometimes I use Chat, GPT and Claude. You know, I have certain prompts that I'll weave into that. And basically what I do is I take podcasts that I've recorded, I plug the transcripts of those into ChatGPT or Claude, and I have certain prompts and certain things that I ask it to do, and then I'll give me like 50 tweets, and then I'll edit it. I'll kind of refine it. I'll make. I'll kind of help it pop a little bit, and then. And then I'll post it like that.
- [41:15]
Courtney Johnson
Have you tried Claude?
- [41:16]
Paul Austin
I have. The challenge with Claude is it hates drugs.
- [41:20]
Courtney Johnson
Oh.
- [41:22]
Paul Austin
It will sometimes refuse to write content for me because it's about psychedelics and they're illegal.
- [41:26]
Courtney Johnson
Oh, wow.
- [41:27]
Paul Austin
So Claude is gatekeeping that motherfucker.
- [41:29]
Courtney Johnson
No. Bye, Claude.
- [41:30]
Paul Austin
Yeah. Come on. All right. Yeah. So the third way. Co Paulaustin co. Find me on social @paulaustin3w. I'm also on X and LinkedIn, and I appreciate you having me on the show today. This super fun, and, you know, we got to do this in person in Austin. We've been planning this for. For six weeks or so. So I'm really grateful to be here. And thanks for. Thanks for having me in the show.
- [41:48]
Courtney Johnson
Thank you. Thank you for being here.
- [41:49]
Paul Austin
Yeah.
- [41:50]
Unknown
Okay, y'all, if you like this episode.
- [41:52]
Courtney Johnson
You would love, love my Patreon. Okay? You get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources, and a lot of juicy shit. Okay? So I hope to see you on my Patreon. Patreon.