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Foreign.
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Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Courtney Johnson and I am here to un gatekeep the gatekept. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy.
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Guys.
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I was using a CPA that costed me like $700 a month and honestly they were not even that helpful. So I wanted another tax olution. So my COO found found this tool called Collective. Collective is a tax tool specifically for self employed solopreneurs and content creators. Also it costs less than 300amonth, so I am saving so much money using Collective. They helped me set up my S Corp election with the irs, which, listen, I'm not going to get into what that means. I don't even fucking know. But what I do know is it's lowering my taxes by about 15%, which is huge. They also give you quarterly tax estimates, annual salary recommendations, paycheck calculators, business income tax returns. They do your taxes for you. But what's cool is they specifically work with content creators with solopreneurs. Also they set up my payroll and they set it up through Gusto. So they have a partnership with Gusto. That is really cool. What's really exciting is that now that I have an S corp, it's actually my first week that I'm getting a real paycheck from my company. Very exciting. It's just like a huge milestone and I feel very proud about that. Anyway, I highly recommend checking out Collective if you don't have a tax solution that you love right now. And I have one month free for y'all. So if you use share.collective.com backslash Courtney Johnson, you'll get one month free of using Collective. Y'all don't want the IRS all up in your shit. Go be tax compliant, but also be strategic again. You can check out collective@share.collive.com backslash Courtney Johnson. Oh my gosh. Welcome. I'm so, so excited to chat. When I first saw your content, it was so resonant with me and I was like, holy, you know what the you're talking about. So I'm so excited to. To chat.
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No, same. I think the first video I ever saw of yours was like the, you know, some kid with a laptop and a phone is like making, you know, endless money while you're head of social director, you know, and then, you know, no one has made me want to join LinkedIn more than you have. I've never even had any interest in like participating in the world, but I'm like, oh, she's so right though. I need to be on it.
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Get yourself on LinkedIn. Well, anyways, I'm really excited to chat. You're truly one of like the five people on TikTok that I will stop for every single video because I just feel like you get it. Like you get social media in a way that other people don't. And I'm curious, your experience in the corporate world, like, has that been frustrating? Has it been frustrating to try to like wrangle clients and be like, no, we don't need this boring ass strategy. Like, we need to like, have a different approach? Because that's always been hella frustrating for me.
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Yeah, the corporate world of social media is always difficult because it's either, you know, we want you to do a million things for like, you know, that aren't in your job description as a social media manager, or we explain, expect you to basically carry our business even though, you know, our landing page may suck, our product may not even be good, you know, whatever the case may be. And I always tell people social media is really the last step. You know, it's like if everything else is in place, then social media will thrive for you. So I've definitely had this experience of, you know, realizing that the corporate setting is oftentimes really challenging because I saw the long game, right, where it's like, you know, I want you to be successful 10 years down the line, have this audience that's excited for every launch, every product, every thing you're doing and that's a lot harder to sell than, you know, let's go viral tomorrow and, you know, sell a million products overnight. So selling the long route is more difficult, but it's helped me manage expectations with clients and helped me deliver more consistent, sustainable results.
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Yeah, that's super, super important. Well, I want to dive into some cheat codes that you have on your TikTok again. I think, Donovan, you're like the best follow for somebody wanting to learn how to be a content creator and how to approach it and think about it differently. Because I think we get in these spaces where it's like, just be yourself and post every day and everything will work out. But it's not that easy. So the first cheat code is to remove expectations around views and try a bunch of different shit. Try like throw it at the wall, see what sticks, the way you edit, the way you film the topic. Tell me about that. And how you instruct your clients to just have an experimental phase.
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Yeah, that's actually the first month of working with me is all about that. Because the Thing about social media is that we know everything can work. You can do skits, it can work. You can talk to the camera, it can work. You can do trending sounds, it can work. So anything can work. It's about what resonates with that individual creator or business owner, what caters to their strengths and allows them to convey their message in a way that actually will resonate. Some people are better writers, some people are better speakers, some people are more humorous, some people are more informative. It's really my approach is about finding and removing the blockages of, like, what makes you you, and experimenting with four to five different content styles and just allowing yourself to treat that as like a fun experimentation phase for your creativity. And then we can kind of look at the analytics, see what's resonating, see what resonates with you in terms of what feels sustainable for you to create. Because if it's not sustainable, you're not going to keep doing it. And you know what is resonating with the audience too, and kind of finding that sweet spot where sometimes it involves combining two of those ideas together or, you know, taking some of those. But I think it's super important to have that experimentation phase because, you know, no matter how much someone thinks they know about social media or thinks they have the perfect template, that's going to work for everyone. I know that a one size fits all approach doesn't work and you have to have that stage for people to explore themselves and figure out what resonates with them the most.
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Yeah, I did that when I was starting my content. I did a ton of different content styles and a lot of topics. I originally went in being like, yeah, I'm going to talk about real estate and Airbnb and no one really cared. So I was like, okay, maybe I should just talk about everything I'm interested in. And weirdly enough, like, career tips took off, which is something I thought was obvious, I didn't think anyone cared about, but had I not experimented, I wouldn't have known that.
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But that's what's so interesting is that like, oftentimes I think that people who create content feel like, well, everyone already knows what we already know and that's actually probably the content you should create because that means that it's so natural for you. It's as natural as breathing for you. So you can talk about it all day long as if you're having a common sense conversation. But, you know, one of the biggest mistakes creators make is assuming that your knowledge isn't valuable to Someone else. We assume that someone else has lived the experience that we've lived.
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Yeah. I was talking to someone the other day that was like, yeah, analytical. Cybersecurity is so obvious. It's so saturated. Everyone's talking about it. And I'm like, no, bitch. Like, your feed is cybersecurity niche thing. Like, yeah. I'm like, what the fuck? I've never heard of that. Like, you've never heard of that? Like, no. Like what you think what is obvious to you is probably mind blowing to other people.
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Exactly. That's such a good. Yeah, that's a perfect way to put it.
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Okay, cheat code number two. This one's a little mean and I love it. It's not the algorithm, it's you. So I think a lot of times even my friends that are established content creators will be like, oh my God, the algorithm is really me over lately. And I'm like, oh, your content's not very good.
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Yeah, it's. It's always the content. What people don't understand is that, like, are there sometimes changes to the algorithm? Yeah, like, sure, but at the end of the day, algorithms. The algorithm is not this like, warlord that's like looming over you, hoping to suppress you and take away all of your hopes and dreams of being a content creator. The algorithm responds to human behavior. They're every social media platform's job is to keep people on the platform because that's how they appeal to advertisers. How do they keep people on the platform? They show content that human beings will like. So your job isn't to create content for the algorithm to like you. Your job is to create content that's going to create an emotional reaction. I think when it comes to providing value, people think value means it has to be some tangible jaw dropping, like tip or something like that. But really the goal of your content is to spark an emotional reaction that gets your audience out of their seat, excited to, you know, move in some way. Whether that's, you know, purchasing from you, working with you, following you, whatever the case may be.
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Yeah. I believe that if your content is good, it's really algorithm agnostic and platform agnostic. Of course, there's little tweaks that you can do to maximize it for a certain platform. But for example, like a clip of a musician singing in a really viral moment, or like a, a little clip from an old movie that everyone loves, or a meme that's like something that's relevant and pop, like that's always going to be relevant across every platform. All the time, forever. And it's not necessarily the algorithm. So one of the tips that you have is get straight to the fucking point. Tell, tell me about that.
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So I think, you know, you hear a lot of coaches sit here and say, well, you should like, linger on the topic and avoid the point for as long as possible to lure them in. And it, it can work, right? Like, I have definitely had those videos where I'm like, the information seems valuable enough, like, let me get to it. But what that does is it ensures that I will never watch another video of yours again because I had to fight for my life to get to the point of this video. And that's not going to make me want to follow you, even if the information is good. So, you know, everyone talks about what's the best hook strategy. The best hook strategy is no point. It's like, say what you have to say. Like, get straight to the core of the onion. Say, like, call out that limiting belief that your audience has in their head and like, bring it out to the forefront. Like, all of my comments are, who gave you my therapist number? Like, did you steal my diary? And it's because I don't focus on, you know, again, like, the algorithm. I focus on what is it that my audience is thinking? What's a day in the mind of my audience? How do I, I call that out and get them to stop avoiding that problem and then provide enough of a solution that at least makes them aware enough that there is action to be taken.
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That's so good. Yeah, you're almost being a voice for people's internal thoughts that they don't necessarily know how to verbalize. And I think that is the mark of a really great content creator and writer. One thing I really hate is when people start their video with like, hi, I'm Sally and I'm a personal trainer for moms. And I know as a mom you struggle with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's how. And then it's like getting to it. Like, no one cares about you. Don't introduce yourself.
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Your biggest fight on especially short form video platforms is time. Because it's not a podcast or a YouTube channel or a newsletter where someone's like, okay, it took me forever to find this, so I'm going to give it a chance to, you know, impress me. It's as simple as a finger swipe to get to the next thing. So you're what you are fighting against when you make short form content is time. Don't waste it. Make every single sentence Matter.
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You also have this idea of visual hooks or, like, layering your video. And I want to talk about this because I think this is something that we all see in other people's content, but we think they're doing naturally. For example, Alex Earle is always either putting on lip gloss or she's like, I'm late to the airport. Like, she could have put on lip gloss before the video. And is she actually late to the airport? It probably not. So tell me some ways that you can pull the audience in with, like, a visual hook or some sort of action hook.
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Yeah. So one thing you can think about is, like, what's something you do in your daily life? Do you like coffee? Do you like tea? Are you somebody who, you know, loves to read books? Like, so if I'm giving book recommendations or I'm. I want to give quotes on business or whatever that I got from these books, like, have that stack of books right there and, like, say the quote as you're slamming the book down so that there's something engaging the eye and the ears. What I think about when I think about layering your videos or creating a visual hook is providing a sensory experience. Think about all five senses. How many of those can you appeal to in one video? So, for example, like, someone who makes cooking content is at a huge advantage because you can appeal to smell, taste, you know, the sound of the, you know, kitchen and the cooking. There's this whole sensory experience. It's giving somebody multiple reasons to watch the video. And your visual hook doesn't have to have anything to do with what you're even doing in your video. I used to put together these coffee recipes while I was talking about mental health, and those would always do really well. It's thinking about, you know, not something that you have to force yourself to do, but something that feels natural to do while you're talking. So that I feel like I'm in the room. You can be folding laundry while you're having this conversation. Because that uptight, kind of, like, super informative approach just doesn't feel natural. Like, people want to feel like they're connecting with the creators. They follow on a deeper level and that there's a person there outside of someone who, like, just stands on a stage speaking about whatever their expertise is.
- [12:55]
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Yeah, I love that. I loved the idea of leaning into whatever you're already doing. Like, are you all already putting on perfume every day? Are you already taking your puppies out? Are you already washing the dishes? Like, that's a natural thing for you to Do I think it also makes the stakes a little lower for a video. It makes you feel more comfortable. Another thing that you mentioned too is like pulling a chair up or fidgeting or like doing something with your body. Like that is cool.
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Exactly. Yeah, like pull a chair up. Fidget like what? You know, something that just is moving with your hands. Like, you know, think about how much people like ASMR content of people who are like playing with slime or you know, fluff or whatever the case may be. Like lean into that. You can be talking about business advice while making slime and like that makes you interesting. I used to do yoga poses while I would give different like marketing tips or whatever because I have a background in taekwondo and so like I'm super flexible and I'm like, okay, well what person's going to give you marketing advice while being in like an over split or whatever? Like that's something I can lean into. So lean in what you're to what your natural talents are and like, don't be afraid for it to be that, like that weird thing that you think doesn't make any sense is probably the thing that's going to work out the best for you and your content.
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Definitely. Yeah. I had a friend that he was the chief marketing officer for a gym and they had really good like athlete interviews, but they're kind of boring. Even though they're bringing in big athletes, they put the athletes in cold plunges and immediately that made the conversation more interesting because they're fidgeting, they're like wincing, they're like screaming and also answering these questions. So it adds this other layer of something interesting to look at or do.
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Yeah, for sure.
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Okay. Cheat code number three. This is actually something that I, out of all the cheat codes I've never done and when I saw this, I'm like, damn, I gotta, I gotta do this exercise. But that is defi, like defining your target audience and getting really clear on your target audience.
- [14:47]
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Yes. So I think a lot of times when we think about target audience, it's like, oh, what's their gender, what's their age? You know, or maybe it's even like a list of pain point. I'm more interested in what's the story, like what is, you know, your audience going through on their day to day when they're walking to the store? Like what are those limiting beliefs that are keeping them from, you know, achieving some type of goal that pertains to what it is that you talk about in your content? How can you call out that limiting belief and put it right in the forefront. So something, an exercise that I'll have my clients do is, you know, remembering that most of the time we are our target audience. Most of us get into creating content or starting a business out of a need to be someone that we wish we had had. So, you know, when we start creating content, stop thinking of it as this like audience that's in front and trying to think about what they're thinking. You know, what went through your mind before you achieved this certain result or what currently goes through your mind as it pertains to what you're doing? What's that thing that you want to say but you think like, no one in your content will understand. That's where the meat of it is. So for me, that's, you know, there's enough people telling people how to, you know, to be authentic, to be consistent, to use hashtags, to trending sound. You know, that's not the coach I want it to be I'm interested in. Okay, well, most people don't purposefully go and be aren't authentic. They don't say, I'm gonna put on a fake front and like film this video. There's something that, you know, causes them not to be authentic. Maybe they went through a traumatic experience where someone made them feel like they weren't good enough. And so they feel like all the only thing they're good for is what they can directly provide to someone else. And I want to help people understand that there's intrinsic value in who they are, their story, their experiences, what they've been through. And so, you know, consider like, what is your inner monologue as you're going through your day and then kind of, I call it like astral projecting yourself like in front of you. And like give yourself that advice that you need because then your content feels as fulfilling for you as it is your audience. And that's going to make you want to keep making content. When you feel like, you know, your content isn't solely dependent on how well it performs, views wise, but it's also a way for you to kind of journal and give yourself therapy while also giving that to someone else, it's going to come off as much more authentic, engaging, nuance, detailed. Because we speak to ourselves in a much more interesting way than we may speak to like an audience we don't know. Like, you're not afraid to tell yourself, bitch, you need to get it together. You're not afraid to tell yourself, like, you know, you're being ridiculous Right now, like, you know, you, you know, you're, you'll, you'll tell yourself like it is. And we're afraid to do that with an audience because we're afraid we'll be misconstrued or we'll, you know, be taken the wrong way. You have to get comfortable with the fact that you will be taken the wrong way. You, you, there's, there's no avoiding it. I don't care what platform you're on. Someone's going to leave you a hate comment and you have to. What my therapist always tells me is consider the source. Is that somebody whose opinion you value? Is that somebody who's living the life you want to live? Or is that someone who's projecting their negative experiences, trauma, you know, whatever, onto you?
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B
Yeah, how, how do you deal with the trolls just realizing that they're not someone that you value?
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A
I mean, I'm human, so it's, it's not always easy. Like, sometimes I think there's this idea of like, oh, you shouldn't ever respond. You know, we're all human. If responding gives you some form of therapy, then respond. I think eventually we all realize that there's no use in responding because, like, people who don't want to understand you are never going to understand you no matter how much you explain yourself. Like, I had a video where I was talking about, you know, people. If you're always the one being abandoned, then maybe it's time to consider if you're the common denominator and people are like, well, that's victim blaming or you're a narcissist or you're this. And it's like, I can't explain every nuanced detail in a 45 second. If this doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you. It's not my job as a content creator to sit here and give a disclaimer for every possible scenario. It could be my message was targeted toward a very specific thing. And, you know, I think there needs to be more responsibility put on the viewer to kind of be able to decipher what's for them and what's not and not judge people based on a 45 second video. So that's what I remind myself of. This is a 45 second video and they think they know me now and they're commenting this when really, if they had actually looked through any of my other content, they would realize, like, I'm a victim of narcissistic abuse. I, you know, I have all of these experiences where I had to come to terms and realize that I was the common denominator in a few situations, and that's the space that I was coming from.
- [18:58]
B
Yeah, it's. The trolls are interesting because when I turned on my TikTok monetization, I started seeing the trolls as money signs. I'm like, probably every time someone comments on my video something mean, I make at least like, 2 cents or something.
- [19:14]
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Exactly 5 cents.
- [19:16]
B
Like, thank you.
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A
Imagine if, like, any world leader was afraid of, you know, saying what needed to be said to evoke change. Like, imagine if Martin Luther King didn't give his speech because he was worried, you know, what someone else might think. You know, imagine if Rosa Parks was like, oh, maybe I will go sit on the back of the bus. Because what, you know, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, you know, you know, anybody who makes a change is not afraid to ruffle some feathers along the way.
- [19:41]
B
I. I think it's really important that you bring up these such, like, important figures in our history, because content creation is that deep. I think a lot of people think, like, oh, you're an influencer. That's like, whatever. Like, no, you're sharing your message. And how do people make decisions? Like, how are people making decisions about what they want to eat, who they want to vote for, where they want to go, travel, what, what tools they're using, who they're partnering with? Like, all of the decisions we make are influenced by content. And so by putting content out and sharing your message in whatever way that is, you are able to influence other people's decision making. And that is fucking important. Like, that is not, like, you're an influencer. Like, that is fucking important, especially if you have a strong message to share.
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A
I mean, in what world can anybody with an iPhone sit here and reach an audience far bigger than any political celebrity figure anybody? Say, starting with nothing with a smartphone, you have the ability to reach more people than any celebrity ever has in their life. So I think when we see history, you know, kind of prove that content was the center of all change and was the center of, you know, making messages. I mean, with Tik Tok especially, look how many movements and things we've learned about different parts of the world that we may not have known if we were, you know, restricted to traditional media. You know, it's. Social media is a way to give power back to the people and give people the ability to stay put, their stake in the sand without that filter or that middleman causing them to morph their Message into something that. That it isn't.
- [21:16]
B
Definitely. Yeah. Also, now is the very first time in all of human history that you have not had to have immense privilege to share your message. Of course, you have to have the privilege of having Internet access and a phone or a laptop or a library or something. But 20 years ago, you needed a lot of money or a publicist or you needed someone with a radio show. You needed an advanced degree to write a book or to lecture. Like, now is literally the first time in human history. Like, the playing field is being more leveled than it ever has as far as information equity. And I think that's fucking cool.
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Yeah. I mean, that's the coolest thing in the world, and that's what I love about social media.
- [21:53]
B
Yeah, me too. It does. Go. Go deep. Okay, coming back. Cheat code number four. This one's so good, too. Something I haven't tried that you're inspiring me to try. And that is the fly on the wall method. I remember the video of you, like, in your car. Kind of like half your face is, like, halfway in it. You're kind of driving and talking, just, like, riffing. I felt like I was in the car with you and we're just like buddies, like, chatting. How does the fly on the wall method work?
- [22:20]
A
Yeah, so Fly on the wall basically, is this idea that I thought of, and it's kind of inspired by reality tv. Right. You know, we don't. We have people speaking at us all the time. This is what you should do. This is what you're doing wrong. This is, you know, what you should be doing in order to achieve this certain result. And, you know, while it's nice and if you're really good at connecting, you know, that can work. What's more impactful is, like, feeling like you're that fly on the wall that's listening in on a conversation that's already being had. And what that does for the viewer is give them more autonomy over deciding whether or not this message is for them and not feeling like they're being personally attacked. Right. Because I think something that goes understated in social media is, you know, it's exhausting having all of these opinions constantly ruffled, you know, into your face. But if you kind of take this fly on the wall reality TV approach where you're kind of looking in on someone else's journey. Like, if I'm having a client call, I might film that client call and have that conversation with my client, because then I'm not targeting the audience, but if the audience recognizes themselves as that client that has that same problem. Now they're like, oh, well, look how he helped his client, you know, work through this problem. I resonate with this. I'm going to go try that or I'm going to work with him, because, you know, if this is how he works in his life, then I want to be a part of that. So it goes back to this idea of like, document, don't create. Don't, you know, try to make a video document a moment that can be valuable. Like I think about Chris Olsen, who would just like document himself like hanging on a pole, you know, as. For as long as he can, like something simple like that. Or Bretman Rock, who I think is the king of just like, you know, random, you know, whatever kind of, you know, content that seems so avant garde and weird, but we're just seeing moments in their day. Look for opportunities in your day, especially if you do this for work. Like document the work you're already doing and allow your audience to see themselves in it rather than trying to get your audience to care by speaking directly to them.
- [24:11]
B
I love what you said about recording a call, because that's the type of content that pulled me in the most. So picture this. You are at your desk, you're having a zoom call, but your camera, your phone camera is kind of off to the side recording. And then you can take that, maybe run it through Opus clip or edit it manually, pull out some clips of you answering some client questions. Or if you don't have any clients, maybe you put up a free webinar and it's like a Q and a webinar. Maybe you're just talking to a friend, but I resonate with that content so much, and I think that's such a good, actionable content idea. I love that.
- [24:44]
A
And, and I think it's cool too, because it helps you sell. Because we're entering into the era, or we've been in the era where no one wants to be sold to. Like, no one's going on social media to be sold to. And the process of selling basically means you're closing that trust gap. Someone who's going to work with you doesn't need convincing that your service is valuable. They need to be convinced that you're the right person to do the job so that they can see in real time how you actually do speak to people, how you speak to your audience, how you speak to your clients, et cetera, et cetera. That closes that trust barrier because now they don't have to wonder what it's like to work with you, or if you're the right coach or mentor, you know, person for them, they're seeing exactly what that would be like. And so it's going to entice them to naturally want to gravitate toward, you know, filling out that application, purchasing that course, joining that cohort, whatever the case may be.
- [25:30]
B
Yeah. Especially since now we're in this information age, we have chatgpt, like, we can get all the information. Like, like with my social media, my LinkedIn courses, you can find the information, you can go listen to all my podcasts, watch all my videos, you can use ChatGPT, you can figure it out. What you're paying for is the guidance, the implementation, the accountability, like the saving time because it's all curated for you. And I think that's really important just to keep top of mind. For content creators that monetize their content through, like education or consulting or whatever it may be, it's all about how you're packaging it. It's about the emotion, it's about people that resonate with you. So also, I think a lot of people that assume their topic is saturated don't really understand that people see things through their unique point of view. So, like, if I had a course on building on TikTok and you did too, it wouldn't be in competition because some people would just resonate with me more because I'm a woman. Or some people would resonate with you more because they have a similar background or because you actually bring in this other element that, like, I don't. It's not about competition, it's not about like, even the information, it's about who you're resonating with. Like, that's what's going to make people buy from you.
- [26:38]
A
Yeah. And on that note, like, you know, to anyone who's in a saturated niche, you know, I, I harp with my clients on finding your unique point of view because there's always room. Something my aunt told me when I was younger was there's always room for excellence. You know, when you're some in a very saturated niche, if you're undeniable, if you're just so good at what you're doing or so good at communicating what you do, like you can stand out. There is always room for that person who does something totally different.
- [27:03]
B
Definitely. And also, I think it's just getting really, really clear on other experiences you have too. For example, I have a friend that's a personal trainer and I would say, like, personal training is an industry I'm like, yeah, there is a lot of people, but she really niche down. She's like, personal training specifically for moms who are entrepreneurs and want to get their bag too. So she has a very interesting, like, fitness and money training where she brings in a money aspect. And it's only for moms that are entrepreneurs. Guess what? For moms that are entrepreneurs that want to get their bag and want to get fit, she is a category of one. She is the only person. So, like, what are the different elements that you can bring in that make you the only person? And if you think you don't have them, you do. Because literally every person on this planet is different.
- [27:50]
A
And it really comes like this. I always bring, like, my. If I could package what I do with my clients, it's helping them understand that there's so much value in you. Like, your content is going to resonate. Like, you can have an audience of 5,000 people and make more money than someone with a million followers because you're so targeted in the way that you communicate what you do. So a lot of people call it niching down. That's one way to say it. But I look at it as, like, what is it that you have to say that's different? What is your movement? And what is the group of people that are going to rally behind that movement and get excited about anything that you're doing?
- [28:22]
B
Definitely. I love that you bring up that you can have a small audience size. I use this example all the time, but my partner has a podcast for Spanish speaking vascular surgeons. How many Spanish speaking vascular surgeons do you think there are in the world there? There's like 500. Like, that's all.
- [28:37]
A
Wow.
- [28:37]
B
And their Instagram page has like 300 followers and they have like, I don't know, 300 downloads every podcast. So maybe you're like, oh, yeah, that's a small audience. No, it's not. They own 80% of this one audience. So every single medical device company wanting to go into Latin America, guess who they go to? And they pay the big fucking bucks because they own that audience. Like, what are these things that are extremely niche to you, even if your audience is small, is tiny. In the example of the personal trainer for mom entrepreneurs who want to get their bag. Like, that's extremely niche. But you become the only person. You become a category of one.
- [29:09]
A
Exactly. Like, you know, I think there's this, like, demonization of, like, being a big fish in a small pond. But, like, sometimes being the big fish in a small pond is a lot better. Than being a guppy in the ocean. You know what I mean? Like, if you're that big fish in that small pond, that means you dominate the pond. And, you know, I think that's what's beautiful about this current age of social media is that there's space for everyone to dominate their little pond, and you don't have to sit here and be the next, you know, Emma Chamberlain in order to make a nice income for yourself online.
- [29:39]
B
Yeah, I love Kevin Kelly's 1000 true fans concept. Basically, he says if you just have a thousand people, that will give you $10 a month. Like, boom, you're making six figures. You just have to find a product and offering a service that is going to give them more than $10 a month of value. And all you got to do is as a thousand people and boom, like, you're. You're crushing it. And that's totally approachable.
- [30:02]
A
Yep.
- [30:04]
B
Yeah. Okay, last cheat code. Cheat code number five. This is my favorite cheat code because I use this all the time. This is the biggest cheat code that if my clients are flopping on social, I tell them to do this, and that is leverage someone else's community or someone else's following by talking about celebrities, influencers, big brands. Tell me about this cheat code. It's so good.
- [30:26]
A
Yeah. So I, you know, thought about this and realized in this era, especially of TikTok in short form, where content is so accessible, everyone can make content. Like, how do you stand out? And, you know, maybe someone doesn't care about someone they've never seen before, but I care about Beyonce. I care about Lady Gaga. I want to. I care about, you know, who. Whoever the person is. So when I see that facial recognition, I'm like, oh, well, what is this person saying about my favorite music artist or public figure, you know, author, you know, whatever the case may be. Now, I'm interested to hear the conversation. And what it also does is it kind of is another way to accomplish that fly on the wall theory, because even though you are talking directly to the camera, you have a reference point where it feels like the conversation is happening between you and what the public figure is doing. So the audience, again, doesn't feel like they are being targeted to be sold to or something like that. They feel like they're having a conversation with their friend about a shared interest or person that they both like.
- [31:19]
B
Yeah, a great example. I have a client that is a therapist, and she posted a video that totally flopped that was like, here's how I onboard my therapy clients. Boring. Well, she posted another video. If Britney Spears was my therapy client, here's how I would onboard her the exact same shit she would onboard you the exact same way she onboards Britney Spears. It's the same process. But the fact that she brought in Britney Spears name, like the video blew up, like just by adding a name of a celebrity or brand that people already love, you're essentially borrowing their brand affinity. It's great.
- [31:52]
A
And I would add to like, because I get this comment when I talk about this theory, a lot of, well, like, you know, I don't do anything related to music or pop culture or anything. Like it doesn't matter. Like it, you know, the example you just gave, you know, that person talks about therapy, but you can still intertwine Britney Spears. There are communities that your audience is already hanging out. Everybody's watching a TV show or reading a book or listening to music or whatever, regardless of what, you know, niche you're in or what topic you talk about. So think about, you know, if you are somebody who has a coffee shop and you primarily help, you know, people in the LGBTQ+ community, well, what music artists are they listening to? Maybe talk about Lady Gaga, you know, maybe talk about Madonna, maybe talk about Lil Nas, X talk about Frank Ocean, you know, whatever the case may be, because those are the people they're listening to. So even though they're not coffee people, you know, people who listen to Frank Ocean are probably drinking coffee because, you know, Frank Ocean is very coffee shop music. And I mean that in the best way. So there's ways you can still connect and use this idea, even if it's not based on a figure that's in your niche or topic.
- [32:52]
B
Yeah, maybe you could do like a content series that's like, here is Lady Gaga's order, like coffee order. Here's this person's coffee order and kind of go and research and find. And then maybe you're remaking them exactly.
- [33:04]
A
Like, here's what a brat, you know, macho looks like or something like that.
- [33:07]
B
You know, I love that. I love that. I think it's so important because it's so easy. I give the example a lot too. Like, let's say you're a lawyer. Like, kind of boring. You can talk about here is a breakdown of Taylor Swift's legal battle with Spotify and what I would have done differently as a lawyer from, like a strategic lawyer perspective, where here's this true crime thing that happened and what I think happened as a lawyer, which is also really great if you're in Some sort of industry where maybe you can't talk about your clients, you have NDAs, you feel weird talking about your clients, or maybe you just don't have any clients yet. Start talking about what other people are doing, comment on it, give your strategic take on it, and people are immediately going to see you as like more advanced.
- [33:47]
A
It's so funny. I talked to my clients who are in marketing about that. I'm like, okay, you don't have any social media management clients yet. Go take a popular company. Because most big corporations have horrible social media presence. That's what people don't understand is that like these people with these big budgets, if you go to like their profile or their Instagram feed, it's the worst thing you've ever seen in your life. But it doesn't matter because they're, you know, that big corporate company. So if you go and you take their feed and you do a green screen video where you're like, you know, here's what their feed looks like and you know, no disrespect to whoever's running their social media, you know, but here's what I would do differently to make it more current and relevant to a Gen Z audience or something like that. Well, you know, then maybe that big company wants to work with you. Or maybe a company in a similar niche who's not as big as that company might say, like, oh, well, that's something we can incorporate because we don't have the luxury of being, you know, Samsung, but we can have the luxury of having a different level of content than to be able to compete or be in the same realm as them.
- [34:40]
B
Yeah, I love that. I see people do that a lot with like logos too. Here's how to redo this company's logo or their branding kit or something. I think that's really, really powerful also. It's just really good for search because if someone's always consuming, I don't know, Taylor Swift's content and you hashtag Taylor Swift and talk about her in your legal video, it's going to come up to those fans which, yeah, I did.
- [35:02]
A
That Lady Gaga video that we kind of, we keep talking about her. I did that and it got over 100,000 views. It was the first video on Instagram to really start to take off, to start building that momentum for me that I've been having now. So I'm here to tell you it works. And I've done it time and time again. I've done it even for content creators, like, I don't know if you know Justine's camera roll, but she's somebody. When she was really blowing up on TikTok, I was like, okay, I'm going to capture this because we have a similar audience. I think she's super dope and doing a lot of cool things. Here's how she was able to build this audience. Here's her narrative. And, you know, describe that narrative in a way that aligns with the way that you work with clients. Because again, it's removing that trust barrier to show what it would be like to work with you.
- [35:41]
B
Oh, my gosh. Bonus tip. I just thought about this. This person that was like, trying to sell me on email marketing services made this whole LinkedIn post that was like, here's how I would improve Courtney Johnson's email marketing funnel. And like, here are the ways it sucks. And I'm like, okay, you got my attention.
- [35:57]
A
Let's like, if someone may. And I've seen that, like, with even huge creators where someone's like, you know, this is how I would change things. And like, that creator will go and hire them and say, like, come fix this or whatever. People who are business owners who I think are going to go far or, you know, are. I don't know if I would use the word humble because I don't know really what that even means. But it's more so they're willing to hear feedback. You know, they're not, their ego isn't so fragile that they're not willing to hear someone out. So, like, I know if someone said, like, you know, Donovan's landing page is, you know, crap because there's so much copy, I'm going to. This is how I would change it. Like, my ears are perked. Like, let me hear it. And, you know, I might hire you to fix it for me.
- [36:34]
B
Yeah, I think that's a great way to, way to pitch. Okay, so that's all of our cheat codes. But I have one last question. Just because it's something I really resonated with on your content. How has your healing journey kind of woven in with your content creation journey?
- [36:48]
A
Yeah, I, I, that's such a great question because I think that that's really been the pivotal part of me finding my lane in the content creation space. You know, I love social media, but I just didn't want to be another person that's like, most consistently, you know, I wanted to be someone that provided something different and what I realized for myself, my clients, because I've grown several aud before this one that I have now and I'm like, it's never been about that. It's always come down to an immense amount of self awareness. Knowing what my limiting beliefs are, knowing how that connects to what my audience's limiting beliefs are. It's knowing, you know, how does my imposter syndrome stop me from showing up authentically? How does did my imposter syndrome come about? And you know, I got my bachelor's degree in psychology. I've always been interested in the human brain. I read way too many self help books. I listen to a lot of different, you know, motivational speakers and things like that because, you know, most people are saying something interesting. Most people have value to give. I have clients all the time that are like, I've been doing this for 15 years. I know my advice is good. It is. It's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying it. You're delivering it in a very dry way. So, you know, how would you say this to yourself? Or, you know, what is stopping you from saying it, you know, in the way that you're saying it to me in this call right now? Oh, it's probably linked to past trauma or past like, you know, experiences that you've had that have led you here. So my approach to working with people is far less the, you know, I'm not the coach for you. If you want a content template that's a one size fits all, I'm just not. I'm the coach for you. I don't want to tell you the words to say. I want to help you find the words so that even when you're done working with me or, you know, we, we don't work together anymore, I want you to have the skills to be able to thrive for years to come. And most of my calls, I warn every new client, this is going to feel like therapy. I'm not entitled to any information. But the more you share with me, the better I'll be able to help you. And normally a lot of our calls are diving into like, what is stopping you from like clearing the clouds in your mind that are, you know, not allowing you to show up in the way that you want to. And that approach has really been what's allowed me to gain the clientele that I have because they're so refreshed, because a lot of them have worked with coaches before, have worked with people who like shove them into this kind of framework and it didn't resonate with them. I have a general framework, but it's adaptable based on the person in front of me and what their experiences bring to the table.
- [39:05]
B
I think that's so important. And not enough people are talking about how, like, trauma is the really, like, the only thing impacting your business. It's so funny because people come to me being like, courtney, I just have like a fear of being seen. And I feel cringe about LinkedIn. And I'm like, yeah, well, you probably have childhood trauma from a time where it was not safe to be seen. Do you want to unpack that? And it, like, gets deep, real deep, real fast. But I have this theory that people only become successful for three reasons. And this is through an entrepreneurship and content creation. Three reasons. One, you're privileged to it. So like, maybe you grew up in a place where everyone's an entrepreneur. Maybe your family was an entrepreneur. Maybe you straight up got money. You're like a Nepo baby. Love that for you. I'm trying to make Nepo babies one day. But yeah, you're privileged to it to your trauma creates the success. So maybe you could think of a figure that has a lot of narcissistic traits that makes them maybe not a good leader, but an effective leader that makes them a lot of money. And yeah, like, your trauma could lead you to success or through a healing journey. Your healing journey can unearth the layers of shit that's like, stuck over you and limiting beliefs. And you can become successful that way. But if you don't have a certain, very specific niche type of trauma, like if you're not a narcissist, you're not going to become successful unless you come from immense privilege or you go through a healing journey. Like a healing journey is truly, and it comes to everyone the time it should fudgeing come. But if you really want to put yourself out, but you're struggling with cringe, you're struggling with all these internal issues, you gotta, you gotta dive deep.
- [40:36]
A
You've gotta dive deep. I think you're, you're spot on where, you know, I, and I think your theory is very interesting. I've never heard it put that way, but I think you're absolutely right. So if you don't, you know, if you're not that person who has that, like, you know, natural charm that maybe comes with having a mental disorder or you're not born into that privilege. All you have is your story and your experiences and how you've overcome them and how you can use that to help other people, period.
- [41:02]
B
No, it's so important. Well, and I think that your coaching model is really amazing. I think it would be incredible for anyone that's really struggling with fear of being seen, fear of putting yourself out there. Because you can go ask the a ton of qu. What time of day do I post? When do I do this? What tool should I be using? Like, none of that matters unless you're actually overcoming your fear and you're actually tapping into your creativity and healing from those parts of you that are. That don't think it's safe to be successful, to be seen. So I think that's amazing, Donovan, people find you. It's. Yes. How can people find you and how can people work with you? Because I think a lot of people that listen to the show would be really interested in a coaching session.
- [41:40]
A
Well, thank you. You can find me. I am at Donovan Barrett Donovan with an A, because I spell it weird on every platform. Tik tok, Instagram threads. And I also just started a substack where I'm writing articles about some of these deeper things. And you can find the link to work in that bio, or the direct link is stand, store, slash, narrative, creative.
- [42:02]
B
Love that. Okay, guys, go hit up Donovan. I. I know y'all. I know y'all need to get over your fear of being seen, so chop chop to it. Chop chop to the link.
- [42:10]
A
Well, thank you so much for having me making the time.
- [42:14]
B
Thank you, Donovan. Okay, y'all, if you like this episode, you would love, love my Patreon. Okay? You get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources, and a lot of juicy shit. Okay? So I hope to see you on my Patreon.