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Transcript160 lines
- [00:00]
Barry
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Courtney Johnson
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I am here to un. Gatekeep the gatekept. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy. Hello, Barry.
- [00:17]
Barry
Hey, Courtney.
- [00:18]
Courtney Johnson
How are you?
- [00:19]
Barry
I'm doing well. How are you?
- [00:20]
Courtney Johnson
I'm having a great time.
- [00:21]
Barry
I'm, like, genuinely sweating still.
- [00:23]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I'm gonna publish this even if I up. My resistance is like, you need to stop your podcast right now, you know, because we're struggling with the setup.
- [00:33]
Barry
Yeah.
- [00:34]
Courtney Johnson
Have you ever seen that meme? It's, like, before my spiritual awakening, after my spiritual awakening, and it's like a little boy with a boot on his head, and, like, he's in a puddle. It looks like someone's stepping on his head and zooms out. And it's just his arm.
- [00:46]
Barry
No, I haven't. But I feel like I'm in the phase of, like, it's still on my head. You know what I'm saying? And I don't realize what it is. I'm the little boy. Are you okay?
- [00:58]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I'm good. Okay. Style, Personal style.
- [01:04]
Barry
What would you like to talk about?
- [01:06]
Courtney Johnson
I would like to talk about your perspective on personal style, because it's unlike anything I've ever, ever heard before. Your take on personal style is so unique and so freeing. Wow. One second. I went to Burning man literally, like, five days ago, and I keep coughing up dust, like, phlegm and dust. It's really gross. I think this should be Slay the Gatekeeper unhinged edition. And a note to the editors. Keep all this stuff in and make it really fucking weird.
- [01:36]
Barry
The pressure is fucking on. Okay.
- [01:37]
Courtney Johnson
The pressure's on.
- [01:38]
Barry
I might say something weird, and we're just gonna have to accept it. Okay.
- [01:43]
Courtney Johnson
Okay. So I'm gonna. Your take on personal style. What's wrong with the way we see personal styling today? I feel like on TikTok and on social media, there's all this discourse around, like, the trend cycle is happening too fast. We're overwhelmed. We're annoyed by it. Like, we want to make a change. We don't know what that change is. I want to hear your philosophy on that.
- [02:05]
Barry
Yeah.
- [02:06]
Courtney Johnson
And, like, where we are.
- [02:07]
Barry
Yeah. You can't have personal style if you're thinking of it through the context of fashion. Like, that's just. You're not going to do it. You can't think about fashion because fashion's not about fashion. Fashion's not about fashion. Painting's not about painting. Painting's not about painting. Fashion. Design is not about fashion. Fashion Is like an illusion. Like, fashion's a product.
- [02:25]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. But it's a medium.
- [02:28]
Barry
It's a medium, but, like, your personal style is you. It's your taste. It's not about what's trending. It's not about, like, what your friend's wearing. It's your personal style. It's literally all you like. The solution is to turn inward essentially, and just identify your taste. That's. Draw conclusions. Like, okay, I really like this type of food. Like, how does that translate into my personal style? And it might not be a direct answer. It's not like, oh, I like tomato sauce and I like the color red. It could be that simple and that's beautiful. But it could also be that it reminds you of a time in Sicily that. I don't know, it's whatever these abstract associations that you can draw to, and sometimes it might not even make perfect sense, but just understanding your taste and really curating your mental space and your physical environment in order to reflect your taste so you can be reminded of it all the time is what enhances your trust in your intuit, like your creative intuition.
- [03:22]
Courtney Johnson
Okay. One thing that I think is crazy about your work and, like, really stood out to me and you kind of touched on it a bit, is that you think that a lot of ugly things are great style, but not in a way of, like, that's just ugly, but in a way of, like, truly, like, okay, like, one of the examples I gave and I put this example on you. This is nothing that you said. I. I'm speaking for you.
- [03:46]
Barry
Okay.
- [03:46]
Courtney Johnson
But you. I think that you would think even though I think Taylor Swift dresses like a 14 year old and has bad style, it's extremely consistent, extremely her, and extremely expressive of her music and her genre and her goals and her goals. So I would think that you would think she's brilliant. Yeah. Like a plus stamp on our personal style. Even though any other fashion girly would be like, she has like, Kohl's 2014.
- [04:10]
Barry
Yes, yes.
- [04:12]
Courtney Johnson
Which is not untrue.
- [04:13]
Barry
Yeah, no, but that's.
- [04:14]
Courtney Johnson
But that's great, right?
- [04:15]
Barry
And I think when you think of it through the context of personal brand, like, what I was trying to say was if you're not intimate with clothing, you're not intimate with its power and like, what it can do for you in representing you as a person, which enhances your personal brand and can, like, bring you so many opportunities and there are so many, like, worlds within fashion that I want to explore and try to explore through, like, my content. Like, there's fashion through the context of self expression. There's fashion through the context of it as an art medium. There's fashion through a context of social communication. And if you understand how to play with it, like, you can really maximize all three categories and, like, have fun every day. You have to get dressed every day. So why wouldn't you make it a creative process?
- [04:58]
Courtney Johnson
I recall somebody telling me that, like, you can't change your clothes to change your consciousness. And I just remember thinking of you, Barry, whenever you said that, because I was like, this is so not true. Like, I think you would definitely disagree with that. So.
- [05:11]
Barry
Yeah.
- [05:12]
Courtney Johnson
How do. How can clothes and jewelry and accessories just like, what we're wearing, like, actually change your consciousness, your state of consciousness or how you're feeling or your being? Like, how does it happen?
- [05:23]
Barry
It happens because of the associations. Like, it's all about the way that you think. Everything is all about your perception and the way that you think. So when you attach meaning to certain things in your life, like this poncho, you said you feel like a goddess, like, queen. Like, that you associate this poncho, for some reason, with the idea of, like, royalty. And so when you wear it, you feel like royalty. And so it's about identifying the things and understanding why they make you feel the way they do and choosing, okay, do I want to, like, live in this version of myself, or do I want to live in this version of myself? And when your whole closet can make you feel like a goddess, like, didn't it transform your life?
- [06:03]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. Like, it's insane because this is not an area of personal brand I've, like, delved into. But now I realize it's such an essential component, especially because it's one of the only art mediums that's not opt in. Like, you have to wear clothes. It's.
- [06:17]
Barry
It's.
- [06:17]
Courtney Johnson
It's a medium that you cannot consent to. It's not a choice of if you are expressing yourself through style or not. You are. You don't make that choice.
- [06:27]
Barry
Yeah.
- [06:27]
Courtney Johnson
Which is very fascinating. And you can opt out, I guess. Like, you could say, like, Steve Job opted out, but by opting out, he actually opted in in the most.
- [06:35]
Barry
I was literally just gonna say that in response to this. Yeah, exactly. And that's the cool thing about it is, like, why did he have personal style? Like, why did. Why is he a fashion icon? Steve Jobs, who wore a black turtleneck jeans and, like, New balances every day? And, like, that was consistent for years. It's not that, like, okay, he has great fashion. Like, some would argue. Sure. But he just made a point. He decided on something for himself, and he was confident in himself and just continued to trust that. And so he has personal style. It's about how much trust you have in yourself to, like, make decisions that are either for or against the majority. Like, you can't escape the influence of what's around you, and it's understandable to want to fit in. But I really think that if we were to all express our personalities through our clothing, would we all look so similar? I don't think so.
- [07:26]
Courtney Johnson
No.
- [07:26]
Barry
So that's why I always say that you have to understand yourself outside of the context of others. And rejection therapy through fashion can really help you understand yourself because it forces you to, like, face everyone. Like a mirror of some sort. Like, why. Why do I feel uncomfortable? Why do I feel judged by these people who probably, like, maybe they're not even judging you. Or, like, I think that's our fear is, like, if. If we look different or if we decide to, like, be a fuller version of ourselves aesthetically, like, what's the world gonna say? And most of the time when people are, like, fully expressed, we love it. And that's why I think costume is so much fun.
- [08:04]
Courtney Johnson
Well, what would you tell someone that's like, I want to express myself more? I'm just afraid of what other people are gonna think.
- [08:11]
Barry
Oh, it's a big thing to answer. I think that the answer to that would probably look different for everyone. I guess, like, the route to the solution. But the solution is really just, like, self love. Like, you just have to stop wanting to be perfect and stop wanting to, like, impress everyone. And I'm one to talk. Like, these are all, you know, the things that I still struggle through. But you have to just say, I don't care. Like, if people think it's ugly, then okay, sure. And maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it's a good thing to be ugly because I have an opinion on something and I, like, have a statement. I have a preference that is my own that no one told me to have.
- [08:52]
Courtney Johnson
You know, one of the things that you encourage me and just, like other people around you to do is, like, be okay with failure and stop taking yourself so seriously. Like, it's not serious. This isn't like this, like, immaculate art form where you have to look perfect every day. It's like, actually you can take risks and, like, there really is no mistakes, you know?
- [09:08]
Barry
Yeah, no, of course not. And, like, how many people, like, unless you're Outside paying attention to it, like deliberately observing, like, do you remember every single outfit you saw of like everyone passing on the street or like going to work or doing whatever? Unless something like really stands out to you, like no one's really going to pay attention to you as much as you think they are. You know, like, just wear something weird and it's going to be okay.
- [09:31]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, but I think that's scary for people that take fashion very seriously because they're like, this is not in the formula. This isn't like following the equation that I'm supposed to have.
- [09:42]
Barry
Yeah, but like, what's it supposed to be? Who cares? You know?
- [09:46]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Like, must break the rules.
- [09:49]
Barry
Yeah. We were talking this morning about like all the different ways we would wear a spoon. Like we would wear it as a necklace or like as a belt buckle or like some something in your hair. And like, I genuinely want to wear a spoon now.
- [10:01]
Courtney Johnson
Should we wear spoons tomorrow?
- [10:02]
Barry
Yeah. Wait, yeah. Can we do another craft?
- [10:05]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, let's wear spoons. Yeah. So Barry has these like creativity games where we talk a little bit about. About your creativity games.
- [10:14]
Barry
Yeah. Well, they're largely inspired by Courtney. We like come up with them together. Thank you. But yeah, Courtney is like on a creativity journey and I'm on a creativity journey just like being around her. And she's helping me bring to light like all of these things that go on in my brain that I don't even realize through our work together. And then we're creating games out of them to like challenge our perspective and expand our awareness of things. And I share them too. I have a document and we're thinking about doing something like fun and exciting with them to make it a little bit more tangible. I'm really loving them. As long as you're okay with like being silly and weird, which I think if you're not, they're a perfect introduction to like welcoming the feeling of silliness and of like becoming a child again. I think they invite the child spirit back in because it forces you to be like silly and stupid and uncomfortable. But then on the other, other side of that uncomfortability is like a feeling of like, I don't know, you don't give a shit anymore. But it also, it like also invites new perspectives surrounding like the way that you look at and experience things, which is how you can expand your creative consciousness.
- [11:21]
Courtney Johnson
So yeah, so I'm feeling a little bit creatively stifled in my self expression and I want to do something to shake it up. Give me like two games that I can play tomorrow.
- [11:32]
Barry
Yeah. So one game would be. I'm a really big fan of secondhand shopping and of thrifting because of two reasons. Obviously, it's great environmentally, actually, for a few reasons. Three, it kind of, like, has that girlhood, like, spirit where you're like, sisterhood of the traveling pants. Like, it feels like you're, like, connecting to the women and the people around you that have lived in the clothes past. And I also always say that, like, I like to look at my clothes as a form of generational wealth. Like, if my granddaughter wore this top one day, like, I think that would be so cute and so sweet. And I wear a lot of my grandmother's clothing, so that's definitely inspired by that. But secondhand shopping forces you to have a perspective. It forces you to think, like, oh, this one thing that's hanging on a rack of miscellaneous items is not merchandised. It's not forcing me to think of it in a specific way. It's just random. So how do I naturally think of this? And that's kind of what teaches you about your taste. So I would say go to the thrift store and try to find an outfit. There's a few versions of this. So level A. Build an outfit that you love at the thrift store from head to toe. Maybe accessorize it a little bit. Maybe throw a hat in there. Maybe try to make the bag intentional. Maybe do some jewelry, if you can have it, and just make a cute outfit with something at thrift store Level A. Level B. I just. I just forgot it.
- [12:55]
Courtney Johnson
Okay. Maybe level B has a layer of restriction.
- [12:58]
Barry
Okay.
- [12:58]
Courtney Johnson
Is that it has to be in one color. It has to be only men's clothes. It has to be a certain price.
- [13:03]
Barry
Yes, Love all of the above. So those are all options.
- [13:06]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [13:07]
Barry
And you can also play with that in other ways too. Like, maybe you wear pants on top and a shirt on the bottom. Or, like, something like that. Or, like, find a way to integrate a shoe. Like, there's so many, like, little tangents that we can go in. Another level that I had thought of previously was try to put together an outfit as if you were your best friend. So, like, if you could personify your friend in an outfit, like, I guess, reverse personify your friend in clothes, what would that look like? And then another one, which we've talked about before, is like, creating an avatar of yourself. Like, if you had to wear one outfit for the rest of your life, that would be, like, your cartoon outfit or your avatar outfit. Like, kind of like What I was saying, like a costumey version of you. Like, what would that be and how could you find it at the thrift store? So I think those are a few good games for thrifting.
- [13:54]
Courtney Johnson
What would your costume outfit be?
- [13:56]
Barry
Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. It's so hard because I changed like, literally all the time. We were talking about this the other day, but, like, if I don't know, I used to change my hair like crazy. Like, from middle school, I would say, until last year, I would have a new haircut at the minimum every, like, three months. And I would have a new hair color like it was absurd. And that reflected all of the ways that I felt like I was changing. Like, I just feel like I always change so, so, so rapidly. But what I'm learning about style now is that, like, I could still use the same items that I have from years ago in new ways now, and it becomes something different. I don't have to constantly iterate my wardrobe. I just have to iterate the styling of the wardrobe in order to reflect how I feel in the moment. Because I have developed the ability to source high quality pieces that I know fit me well. So that's like, the first thing that you need to learn.
- [14:50]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, so you're saying there's two aspects. There's the sourcing and the styling. Do you have any specific cheat codes or games for the sourcing and for the styling?
- [15:01]
Barry
So I think the sourcing is kind of in those thrifting games. Right? Like, because they are, like, there's a. They're multifaceted games. It's about finding the pieces and. And about styling them. So I think that is a good test to gauge where you're lacking. Because I find often with my clients, like, everyone is so different. Some clients are really keen on, like, finding the items, and they just don't know how to put them together to, like, feel cool or they feel, like, really restricted in the way they put things together and can't expand beyond that. And some clients can't find the items, but maybe are a little bit more creative in the styling. And then sometimes there's both. And then there's another level of all of that, which is self love and acceptance. I've never really run into a client that hasn't had, like, a really healthy amount of self love, because in order to, like, make that investment to elevate your wardrobe, which has been probably something that a lot of people are taught to, like, not value and think of as something unimportant to take a step in investing in that way is an act of like, bravery and is an act of rebellion and like going against the grain. So they're already kind of primed to start to like, be comfortable being uncomfortable and maybe trying some things on that they wouldn't have otherwise and like stepping outside and things they wouldn't have otherwise. And yeah, I think being open minded and ready for a little bit of risk is. Yeah, some, some of the qualities that they tend to have.
- [16:24]
Courtney Johnson
Why is like investing in personal styling and even learning about your creativity and your self expression or your self expression in general, like a good monetary investment.
- [16:36]
Barry
Well, can you talk about the story that I like, talk about all the time?
- [16:39]
Courtney Johnson
This is true. Yeah. I was in Mexico City and I was like eating lunch and this girl comes up to me and like compliments my outfit and she's like, oh my God, I love your fit, it's so great. And I was like, oh my gosh, thank you. And we get to talking and she's like, yeah, I told her from Texas. And she's like, yeah, I'm going to San Antonio soon. So like, I love Texas. I go there all the time. And I was like, oh, why? And she's like, I do a lot of like, shoots there. Anyways, I find out that she's Beyonce's photographer and she's like, in the Smithsonian.
- [17:07]
Barry
Yeah, yeah, but.
- [17:09]
Courtney Johnson
And we like have a whole conversation. She wants to hang out. Anyway, it was crazy because she's fucking Beyonce's photographer. Like, she's like crazy talented, amazing. And she thought my outfit was cool. And we like chatted and had a whole conversation and she wants to like, hang out because she literally. The reason why she came up to me is to compliment my outfit.
- [17:26]
Barry
Yeah.
- [17:26]
Courtney Johnson
That opened an opportunity that literally would have never existed, you know?
- [17:30]
Barry
Yeah.
- [17:31]
Courtney Johnson
And like a whole new, like, level of creative person to be around.
- [17:34]
Barry
Absolutely. And think about how that translates to like, job interviews and to like making friends and to any like, new environment or any old environment. It doesn't really matter. Like, it's just about feeling like, good, feeling more like yourself. And the more you feel like yourself, the more you invite opportunities in that reflect the experiences you actually want to see from, like an authentic place.
- [17:55]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Like literally the clothes you wear determine your experiences that happen to you out.
- [18:00]
Barry
In the wild because they tell you how you view yourself and then they tell other people how you view yourself. Wow.
- [18:07]
Courtney Johnson
So if you're like not looking your best, not putting yourself together in any way, not expressing your style, Maybe going with the grain, like dressing like everyone else, you're literally going to miss out on opportunities. Because what you're signaling to other people who could be a potential business partner or project or client or whatever, what you're signaling to them by how you look and dress is, oh, I, I care a lot about what other people think or I want to be like other people or I don't really value myself. Like, there's a lot of different ways you could present. It's like with personal brand. Personal brand is really just like manipulating people's unconscious biases. Because when someone sees somebody else who's in like, I don't know, I don't even like to use the word put together. It's not about being put together.
- [18:52]
Barry
It's just about being like creatively expressed and like confident. Like, it's all about the way you're wearing the clothes or the way you're wearing your disheveledness. Like, I like to be a little bit disheveled. You wouldn't know it through this outfit. I didn't like intentionally do that today. But like a way that I would do that is through like leaving my hair natural and frizzy or like, actually I left my stuff a little wrinkled. I like to leave my stuff a little bit wrinkled because it's like a little, I don't know, I don't want to look crisp, I don't want to look like sharp. I want to be relaxed. But I want to look put together or like my version of put together, you know? So, yeah, I think being disheveled or like looking like shit could actually be something you use in a good way. But it's just about owning it and like choosing it on purpose, you know?
- [19:33]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. And that like, cool quite literally attracts your opportunities because personal brand, like people are going to see, oh, this person has a lot of energy and confidence. And their subconscious goes like, okay, energy and competent people, equal, successful people. So I want to work with them. Like, this is all happening unconsciously when we make a split second decision. So like if you're at a networking event or you're like at a happy hour, whatever, wherever you are, the conversations you're going to have and like the people that come up to you are literally determined by the energy you're putting out and how you're presenting yourself. And you will like gain or miss opportunities based on how you look. And people love to be like, looks don't matter. It's about your talent, it's about whatever. And it's not just like, looks, it's expression. It's like how you're holding yourself, how, like, showing that you're confident in what you're doing. Like, it. It does matter. Like, it does fucking matter.
- [20:23]
Barry
Of course. I mean, it wouldn't be here if it didn't matter. You know what I'm saying? And it wouldn't have the impact that it does when it's done right if it didn't matter. And done right is just, like, making people think there's no such thing as good style. Like, I will say that and repeat it. And I don't honestly think there's a such thing as bad taste. Like, I think that is something that invites a lot of, like, discourse, but I really don't because I think it's just. It's all a matter of opinion. And, yeah, your thing might be more expensive or, like, it might. It might have taken a longer time, which I think, like, the effort and the story behind things is, like, incredibly important. But it's all a matter of opinion at the end of the day.
- [20:56]
Courtney Johnson
You told me to make a Spotify playlist that reflected, like, the personal style I wanted to exude, which is really, really interesting.
- [21:03]
Barry
Yeah. Because that says a lot too. I think that a part of the experience of being a human being is like, interacting with all of your senses. Right. Part of the experience of being your full self is interacting with all of your senses. So the way that you physically represent is like, the touch or, like, the sight or whatever. I think it's your touch, but other people's sight. You know what I mean?
- [21:27]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [21:28]
Barry
And I think that the music you carry is really important and tells you a lot about yourself and the music you curate for this, like, embodied version of yourself. Like this, like, super, I don't know, well represented version of yourself that's super confident. Like, there might be an essence to the type of music that they listen to. And reminding yourself of that essence through your senses could help you step into that feeling and become that person. Or you could just play with music in any sense. Like, I like to. Often if I'm feeling, like, creatively blocked or if I'm feeling like I'm not being patient enough and I'm not clearing my mind enough, I have too many thoughts going on and I'm attaching to things. I like to roll the windows down in my car and just let whatever song play on my playlist, even if I'm not in the mood for it, or even if it's really old and I'm over it or I've heard it a million times this week. I just let the music do its own thing on the radio and I force myself to thoroughly enjoy each and every song just to experience how music makes you feel and how it challenges your experience. That's the bigger picture of my work. It's yes, about fashion and self expression, but it's about everything. It's about pretty much all art forms and conceptualizing and understanding and like making sense of the experience of being alive and of enjoying and of creating things. Every single tool out there, whether it's artistic or not. Or everything could be classified as artistic too. Like telescopes are artistic. Like everything is artistic because it's all like life. I really like, try to maximize my experience through all art forms.
- [23:12]
Courtney Johnson
So let's say I feel really frustrated with like my wardrobe or my whole self expression. And I want to take steps to start to intentionally shift that. Like, where do you even start?
- [23:24]
Barry
I think start with like, what negative thoughts are you telling yourself? Like, what are you telling yourself you can't do or can't be? Or like, how are you being mean to yourself? How are you holding yourself back? Because before you address any of that, like, you're not going to be able to figure any of it out. So I would say address that and maybe like ask yourself if you're ready to make some changes and if you're not, that's okay. But maybe like do some exploring, exploring internally about maybe how you can like shift yourself into a position to be ready to make a change. Because if you're feeling discomfort with it, the desire to make a change is probably somewhere there, you know. So, yeah, figure that out. And then I would say experiment with like fit and silhouette and fabric and proportion and like the really literal details of your clothing. Try on every single piece that you have and like analyze every little detail. Where does the arm seam hit you? Where does the cuff hit you? Like, where does a hem hit you? So that's the fit, anatomy and like proportions. I could also help out. Like, that's my whole job. You could also experiment, take a look at the color, take a look at the fabric and the way that that's like draping on your chest. Like, I love a V neck. I love a button down. I love the silhouette of like a single breasted blazer. So a lot of the items in my closet have this silhouette. And I like things that, like, I don't know, it's just. It really, really helps you curate pieces when you know how you like things to fit. So color Fabric, proportion, all of that. And then if you're comfortable there, my next step is to style yourself in unexpected ways. So pair a top with a pair of bottoms that you would never, ever dream to pair. You think it looks hideous and ugly. And then try maybe throwing a scratch skirt or some sort of belt in the mix and seeing if that, like, creates a cool tension and contrast. Like, try to dress in an ugly way. Just to start flexing the muscle of thinking of things, you know, differently and, like, expanding your awareness of how things can be arranged. Because it's not always going to be ugly. Sometimes you're going to create an ugly outfit, like, something that you would think that would be terrible, and it'll be the coolest thing that you put on all day or, like, ever in your life, you know?
- [25:31]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Okay. So you're going to first figure out what you already like. You're figuring out the silhouettes. You're starting to pay attention to the details, and you're also starting to figure out, like, what you want to express.
- [25:42]
Barry
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Courtney Johnson
And then you're gonna start to play. Just, like, give yourself permission to play. You. It doesn't have to be perfect, does not be great. You're just going to step a little bit outside of your comfort zone, try different things. And then what. What happens after that? Are you ready? You're ready to shop, or you're ready to start to, like, wear your shit out into the world?
- [26:00]
Barry
I think that shopping shouldn't even be a consideration for at least six months to a year. I think if you're really in this position where you're ready to make some changes, like, stop shopping. Just stop. Like, it's not helping you. There are also services out there that can, you know, you can rent stuff you can share with a friend. You can. I do think shopping secondhand is good if you have to have to shop or you, like, hire help and, like, have a really deliberate intention of, like, what direction you need to shop in if there are urgent situations. But I really think a no buy is necessary because shopping is, like, a large part of the reason people get themselves into unwanted circumstances in the first place. I know it could be, like, the opposite side of the coin as well, where people, like, hate shopping and avoid it at all costs. In the same case, though, I would recommend not shopping because I think getting creative with what you have is the key to telling you what you need to shop for. Like, it helps you understand gaps. It helps you understand the things that you like. It gives you direction, it gives you purpose. It Gives you a sense of groundedness and a centeredness in shopping.
- [27:04]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, it's like shopping is going outward, but having no buy is going inward. Something I really like in all forms of like evaluating creativity is outliers. So something I would also recommend in your style and, and everything else, but I think in this case in your closet is just to look at all your outliers. What are the top five most worn pieces?
- [27:24]
Barry
Yes.
- [27:24]
Courtney Johnson
What are the things that you just like, pull on a day that you're super fast? Or what's the thing that you wear the most and the thing that you wear the least? Just like, look at the extremes and start to evaluate the extremes. What are some of the things that they could look at? So let's say I wear this top at least three days a week. I wear this top, these shoes, this jacket, and that handbag at least three days a week. They're my most worn items. Like, what are some of the things I can think about or questions I can ask myself or games I can play with those top five worn items to like, really understand them?
- [27:55]
Barry
Yeah, I think that just wear them frequently and then the more you wear them, the more like they'll. The answers will reveal themselves to you. Like, it might be because they are. It's a really like long wear outfit. Like, it doesn't wrinkle easily and it is really comfortable to sit in all day. Or it might be proportion. Like it might. You might really like the way it flatters your frame. Or it might be that it incorporates lots of different textures and like, I think just like wearing it more and owning that as like your unit uniform. Or you are like, go to outfit formulas. What I call them familiarizes you with it and gets you comfortable with like accepting that you can wear the same thing every day. Like you can wear the same thing every day if that makes your life more convenient. But wearing the same thing every day doesn't have to be so literal. Like, it's all about understanding the little details about what you like and finding ways to recreate that through items that you can continue to curate. Like, for this trip, I packed like five white button downs, but they're all a little bit different. But like, I didn't say I have one white button down in my closet. I'm good on that. Like, check. Let's move on to the next item. I don't have many other tops in my closet. Like, half of my closet is button downs and half of it is blazers, which I'm like actively trying to get rid of. Because I like, I'm having a, like, a really interesting reaction to blazers right now. And that's like my whole upper half for the most part. And then some basic T shirts and tank tops. Like, that's what I like. So that's what I have. And it doesn't have to be, like, more complicated than that.
- [29:21]
Courtney Johnson
I want to talk about purging because I think in this no buy era, where you're just evaluating where does purging or getting rid of things fit in and how do you even start to know what to purge?
- [29:34]
Barry
Yeah, I mean, it's hard. I also say don't purge during these phases. Like, it's not you're going to purge one day. It's just for this time period. Don't do it. Because I have clients who under purge and who over purge. And it's like, again, again, like, it's all a spectrum of like, everyone's personal experiences with their clothes and their bodies and their closets and their income and all of it. But I think that in the same way that shopping is harmful, like, purging can be too, because then you're removing data, like, you're removing data points. You're like, you're not giving yourself the full opportunity to like, understand everything you currently have. Like, that you don't have to spend money to understand what you currently have. So just like maximize the experiments that you can create, you know?
- [30:15]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Okay, interesting. I feel like I definitely over purge because I will get rid of things and be like, why I needed that.
- [30:22]
Barry
Yeah. But all. I think I understand how to use it now.
- [30:25]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Yeah. I always think, like, I wonder I'm doing something good if I'm like, getting rid of shit in my closet, which is so silly.
- [30:30]
Barry
That's interesting. Yeah.
- [30:31]
Courtney Johnson
But it, but it is helpful because I do, like, I think my dream maybe one day, like, maybe like when I'm older is I have like, like one outfit I wear every day of the week and then it just like, repeats.
- [30:45]
Barry
Yeah. My grandma did something similar. She wears one color for the entire week. She wears that. It's been for years. It's been since I'm born. Like, she'll. She does a light pink week, then she does like a light yellow week. It goes with the season. So. And mind you there, it's always like a turtleneck, a cashmere sweater, eight things of necklaces, layered necklaces, trousers, belt, and a little shoe. And it's all the same shade. So it's all monochrome, like lavender, yellow, light pink, white in like the Summer and the spring sage, like, and then I think she does a robin's egg blue for, like, two weeks. She does navy for two weeks, black for two weeks. And then, yeah, in the winter, it gets, like, darker and warmer. That's one of my grandma's. My other grandma is a jewelry designer. Like, a sick jewelry designer. And my other grandma passed, but she was also, like, wonderfully. I have a step grandma in the mix. My other grandma was, like, wonderfully fashionable as well. So they're, like, huge, huge influences for me.
- [31:40]
Courtney Johnson
So she had only certain colors in.
- [31:42]
Barry
Her closet, and she hasn't chopped for, like, 40 years or more. Probably at this point, everything's like, old Calvin Klein. Like, my. My favorite trench coat that I have is hers. It's old Calvin Klein, and It's probably, like, 40 or 50 years old, and it's in great condition. She taught me a lot, for sure.
- [31:59]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. One of the. I've seen you had a TikTok that said, like, the power of your closet or something is. And how long you've had things.
- [32:06]
Barry
Yeah, Yeah. I think that could tell you a lot, too. And it depends on how old you are and, like, your circumstances. And of course, not everyone's going to be able to, like, play with that idea, but, yeah, you could tell. You could tell a lot about your style by the age of the pieces in your closet. Is everything new? Like, do you constantly feel like you need to, like, start over? Is everything old or, like, a select few things old and, like, they have remained really true to you over the course of a long time? There's. There's value in that. Like, there's data in that, too.
- [32:35]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's really helpful. This has been, like, a truly transformative journey in my life. It's. It actually is crazy.
- [32:43]
Barry
Like, it is, like, just being around you has been a transformative journey. Oh, my God. Courtney, like, Courtney is like my fairy godmother. Literally. Like, I am so blessed to know her, and she is helping me so much in my career. It's like, the most magical thing ever. So thank you so much.
- [32:57]
Courtney Johnson
Oh, I'm blessed to know you. You turned me into a goddess.
- [33:00]
Barry
Love that.
- [33:02]
Courtney Johnson
So I think a really great place for people to get to know more about, like, your work is your creativity games.
- [33:08]
Barry
Yeah.
- [33:09]
Courtney Johnson
Where can they find your creativity games? Like, on your Instagram, right?
- [33:12]
Barry
Yeah, on my Instagram. They're linked in my, like, link in bio, and then they're linked on my website and, like, on my sub stack on, like, the little heading. So pretty much all of my Stuff you can find them.
- [33:21]
Courtney Johnson
Love. Amazing. Okay. Yeah. Where can people find you and how can they all work with you?
- [33:25]
Barry
Yeah, you can find me on social media. I am very present on there Instagram, on TikTok, and on Substack. Substack is my favorite way to articulate my thoughts.
- [33:35]
Courtney Johnson
Wait, pause. You've had some pretty high profile endorsements on your sub stack, which is cool.
- [33:39]
Barry
I have? Yeah.
- [33:40]
Courtney Johnson
You've been like reposted by like some pretty prominent people.
- [33:42]
Barry
Yeah, yeah, My substack, it's steadily growing over there.
- [33:47]
Courtney Johnson
Wait, what's your substack about? Why should I follow you on substack? What's it about?
- [33:50]
Barry
What's it about? It's about a lot of the things that we talked about, drawing parallels with like art in the world and how we express ourselves and how to be a creative person, how to build cool outfit formulas, how to challenge your perspective, how to curate pieces. I share some recommendations sometimes, not very frequently, but I'm very deliberate and intentional when I do share. Pieces are often secondhand and from the real real. It's my favorite way to shop. And yeah, I think I dive just like really deep into the topics that we. We talked about today. And it's always changing and kind of evolving because it's new for me. But I do think that that's like the most. The way to get the most like bang for your buck with. If you're interested in this conversation. I do post on TikTok too, and it's for some reason, like, that's like a block for me is like the video content. I love your TikTok. I want to get more creative with it though. Like, I really want to make like, creative, like choreographed dance films and like, I want to do cool styling videos. Like, I'm just not doing it in the way that I want to do it, but I don't know that I have time to do it in the way that I want to because I have like, clients and it's like a whole production to think about. So it's really. Yes, exactly. But I am looking for like, dancers and stuff.
- [34:59]
Courtney Johnson
And I'll dance in your video. Yeah. Okay. This is why justice for Nepo babies. They can execute on their creative ideas because they don't have the limiting shit of like, money or budgets or whatever.
- [35:09]
Barry
And perhaps they have like a lot of time on their hands, like pause working or like, you know, and they could just like totally dive in. So. Yeah.
- [35:17]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. So I. Well, I hope my dream in life is to create a Nepo baby Yeah, same here. I would love to make one.
- [35:23]
Barry
Yeah. And, like, I would love for them to, like, you know, do some good in the world.
- [35:27]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Okay, listeners, y'all, we were at a hypnosis class and we were sharing. It was like a money hypnosis class of, like, addressing limiting beliefs around money. And we were all, like, sharing our intentions for being there. And this one guy is like, my intention for being here is to, like, increase my money consciousness so my future wife can create from a place of, like, creativity and abundance rather than, like, scarcity. And I was like, oh, my God. Imagine creating from a place of, like, ultimate financial abundance. Like, that's crazy.
- [35:57]
Barry
And ultimate. Just, like, expression, too. Because I think sometimes we can create even if we are financially abundant, but it's still not, like, fully it, like, there, I think, in the artist's way. Julia Cameron talks about, artists, when they are still scared of themselves, will often work, like, behind the scenes. Like an actor will often be, like, a cameraman.
- [36:19]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [36:19]
Barry
Or like a sound coordinator or something. I think that's what I'm doing, too. I don't think my TikTok is, like, an art, but I want to. I want it to be an art. And I think I'm just. I don't know.
- [36:27]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [36:28]
Barry
Like, still behind the scenes in a way.
- [36:29]
Courtney Johnson
I love that part in the book. It was really triggering to me because she was like, I spent most of my career working, like, advertising and marketing agencies. And she was saying, like, marketers and advertisers are, like, the ultimate example of blocked artists. Like, they have to go work in, like, the only creative outlet in corporate America, which is marketing. So true.
- [36:48]
Barry
And I was in marketing and advertising, too.
- [36:50]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. And, like, you're a blocked artist. Yesterday we also went to this art gallery, and this girl, like, used to be in advertising and had this poster that says, like, advertisers think you're stupid. I was like, damn. Yeah, but also, advertisers are blocked artists. And they're. But. But that's, like, they're a little jaded.
- [37:07]
Barry
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Courtney Johnson
You know, because, like, okay, every, like, marketing agency for, like, fucking commercial real estate, like, fucking creative director, is the most jaded person I've ever.
- [37:17]
Barry
Really?
- [37:18]
Courtney Johnson
That. Yeah. Because it's all these insanely talented people.
- [37:20]
Barry
That are suppressing themselves.
- [37:21]
Courtney Johnson
They're suppressing themselves and. And doing film for, like, what, like, mixed use retail building.
- [37:27]
Barry
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:28]
Courtney Johnson
You know, like a Facebook ad. Facebook? A league. A lawyer.
- [37:31]
Barry
That's what I was doing. I mean, like, in a sense, like, it was a little bit of that, but, like. Yeah, it was, like, doing marketing for, like, companies I had no interest in.
- [37:40]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, same. Yeah, I'm like, this is. Yeah. Blocked artists. Anyways, that's also a assignment. Everyone who hasn't done the artist's way should.
- [37:47]
Barry
Absolutely.
- [37:49]
Courtney Johnson
It'll change your life. Like, warning, Warning.
- [37:52]
Barry
Warning. Also warning. Like, God talk. But, like, that's. Yeah, yeah, she talks about that, though. How to overcome that if that scares you.
- [38:00]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's true. If anyone has religious trauma, I can help with that.
- [38:03]
Barry
Yeah.
- [38:04]
Courtney Johnson
But you know what's cool? There's, like. I've seen a lot of people become, like, a specialization of therapy is, like, deconversion therapy or, like, religious crisis therapy.
- [38:12]
Barry
That's so necessary. Yeah, it is so necessary.
- [38:14]
Courtney Johnson
Okay. Anyways, you can follow Barry on Instagram, the curated tastemaker, go check out her creativity games, and everyone should work with her. She's absolutely amazing. Awesome.
- [38:26]
Barry
You are, like, I'm so blessed to know you and so lucky to have you as a client.
- [38:29]
Courtney Johnson
So blessed to be here.
- [38:31]
Barry
Thank you for having me.
- [38:36]
Courtney Johnson
Okay, y'all, if you like this episode, you would love, love my Patreon. Okay? You get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources, and a lot of juicy. Okay? So I hope to see you on my Patreon.