Un-Gatekeeping Service-based Brands

Summary

Podcast Title: Slay The Gatekeeper
Host: Courtney Johnson
Episode: Un-Gatekeeping Service-based Brands
Release Date: July 22, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Slay The Gatekeeper, host Courtney Johnson is joined by Ashley Firo, a seasoned makeup artist and entrepreneur. Together, they delve into strategies for un-gatekeeping service-based brands, focusing on marketing, mindset, personal branding, and self-growth.

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Selecting Your Ideal Clients

Key Discussion:
Ashley Firo shares her refined strategy for selecting clients, emphasizing the importance of aligning with clients who resonate with her brand's vibe and values.

Notable Quote:
"I only reached out to four people on that list, and there was, what, maybe 35 people on the list. To me, I'm very, like, into the vibe. And so I went through the list of people, and I was like, who do I vibe with the most... that's my ideal client."
— Ashley Firo [01:02]

Insights:

• Focus on quality over quantity when selecting potential clients.
• Use intuitive instincts to gauge alignment with prospective clients.
• Avoid "Red Flag" clients who may drain energy or harm your reputation.

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Embracing an Abundance Mentality

Key Discussion:
Ashley highlights the necessity of an abundance mentality in client selection to prevent burnout and maintain high standards.

Notable Quote:
"You have to be in such, like, abundance mentality to do that. 'Cause if you're in scarcity, you're gonna reach out to all 25 and be like, I have to get one."
— Ashlie Firo [03:19]

Insights:

• An abundance mindset allows for selective client engagement.
• Scarcity leads to overreaching and settling for less ideal clients.

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Setting Boundaries and the Power of Saying No

Key Discussion:
The conversation shifts to the importance of setting clear boundaries and how saying no can foster respect and improve client relationships.

Notable Quote:
"Saying no builds respect faster than saying yes."
— Ashley [07:53]

Insights:

• Establish firm boundaries to protect time and energy.
• Saying no to misaligned opportunities attracts clients who respect your terms.
• Clear boundaries lead to better client experiences and long-term relationships.

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Building a Personable Brand

Key Discussion:
Courtney and Ashley discuss how personality plays a crucial role in branding, surpassing mere service offerings.

Notable Quote:
"Your personality is your niche and not just your services."
— Ashley [16:35]

Insights:

• Infuse your unique personality into your brand to stand out in a saturated market.
• Share aspects of your life and interests to create a deeper connection with your audience.
• Authenticity in personality attracts clients who resonate with you on a personal level.

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Creating an Exceptional Client Experience

Key Discussion:
Ashley emphasizes that the client experience is synonymous with the brand itself, highlighting every touchpoint from initial contact to follow-up.

Notable Quote:
"The client experience is the brand."
— Ashley [20:43]

Insights:

• Every interaction, from emails to in-person services, shapes the client's perception of your brand.
• Consistency in providing high-quality experiences leads to client retention and referrals.
• Anticipate client needs and questions to streamline their journey and enhance satisfaction.

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Charging for Outcomes, Not Time

Key Discussion:
The duo explores the concept of valuing services based on the outcomes they deliver rather than the time invested.

Notable Quote:
"Charge for the outcome, not the time."
— Ashley [26:35]

Insights:

• Price services according to the value and results provided to clients.
• Educate clients on the comprehensive nature of your offerings beyond just time spent.
• This approach justifies higher pricing and aligns with delivering exceptional results.

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Scaling a Service-based Business

Key Discussion:
Ashley discusses methods to scale a service-based business, including building a team and leveraging systems.

Notable Quote:
"To scale your business, you are going to have to be able to step away from behind the chair."
— Ashley [29:29]

Insights:

• Transition from solo operations to building a trained team.
• Implement systems and workflows to maintain quality while expanding.
• Explore additional revenue streams such as public speaking or brand partnerships.

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Developing Efficient Systems

Key Discussion:
The importance of creating and maintaining efficient systems to handle repetitive tasks and enhance client experiences is highlighted.

Notable Quote:
"Anticipating problems, solve them before they even come up. So we're having smoothness through the whole customer journey."
— Ashley [36:25]

Insights:

• Utilize CRM tools like Dubsado to automate processes.
• Standardize communication templates to ensure consistency.
• Continuously refine systems based on recurring client inquiries and feedback.

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Authentic Content and Personality in Branding

Key Discussion:
The conversation turns to content creation, emphasizing authenticity over perfection to drive engagement and conversions.

Notable Quote:
"Content that converts is not always the prettiest."
— Ashley [38:34]

Insights:

• Share behind-the-scenes moments and real-life scenarios to build trust.
• Consistent, vulnerable content fosters deeper connections with the audience.
• Authenticity in content differentiates your brand and encourages client engagement.

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Building a Brand That Evolves

Key Discussion:
Ashley and Courtney discuss the necessity of creating a flexible brand that can adapt to personal growth and changing business landscapes.

Notable Quote:
"Build a brand that can evolve with you."
— Ashley [41:48]

Insights:

• Regularly assess and realign your business direction with your evolving goals.
• Diversify offerings to include new services or educational opportunities.
• Maintain flexibility to pivot and explore new avenues without being confined to initial services.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Courtney Johnson and Ashley Firo provide actionable strategies for service-based entrepreneurs to refine their client selection, set meaningful boundaries, build authentic brands, and scale their businesses effectively. Emphasizing the importance of personality, client experience, and flexible systems, they offer a comprehensive guide to un-gatekeeping and thriving in the service industry.

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Additional Resources:

• Ashley Firo's Website: ashleyfiro.com
• Nexus Point Outsourcing: go.nexuspt.io/CourtneyJohnson
• Sunrise Content Club: Join for daily accountability and content creation support.

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Thank you for tuning into Slay The Gatekeeper. Stay empowered and continue to break down the barriers in your entrepreneurial journey!

Transcript

[Ashley]

Foreign.

[Courtney Johnson]

Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I am here to un. Gatekeep the gatekeep.

[Ashley]

Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy. Welcome to the podcast.

[Ashley Firo]

Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

[Ashley]

And. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about how we met, which was, like, an insane cheat code that I'm just like. I just. I put it in my pocket. I'm telling everyone about this. So I get a dm. It's from Ashley. It's like, hey, I see that you're speaking at this south by Southwest event. I would love to do your makeup. And immediately I'm like, I am speaking. You literally just saved me the effort of having to find someone. So thank you, and I'll book right now. And it was, like, 10 minutes from you reaching out to, like, closing a deal, and I'm like, this is so smart. Something about the message was just so organic, so, like, refined. It was clear that you had this amazing strategy. So I just want to talk into that strategy. That's so good.

[Ashley Firo]

Well, to be honest, I think I told you this also before is I only reached out to four people on that list, and there was, what, maybe 35 people on the list. To me, I'm very, like, into the vibe. And so I went through the list of people, and I was like, who do I vibe with the most? Which sounds kind of superficial, but I feel like you can get an in, like, an initial instinct off of people if you really pay attention to it. You were one of them, and I already knew who you were, but I just kind of felt into what you were gonna be talking about, and I was like, okay, this feels right. Like, I feel like we would hit it off. I feel like we could be friends. And so I'm gonna reach out to her. And then it was a couple of other people that I felt the same way about, and I booked all of you, but it's about understanding who is my client.

[Ashley]

Wait, wait. So you reached out to four people, and you booked them all? Yeah, 100% close, right on that little motion.

[Ashley Firo]

Damn, that's good, because I'm paying attention to what you're putting out into the world. You are a visual brand no matter who you are, what you do. And so I'm looking at your vibe and aesthetic, and then I'm also understanding who you are as a. As a person, as a business owner and what you're putting out in the world. And, like, do I resonate with this person? And the answer was yes to both. And so that's where I was coming from. A gut instinct, heart space, like, is this my ideal client? If I were to just like, project onto her, like, who she is, and the answer is yes. So that's who I reached out to. A lot of the people were not, and I didn't reach out to them at all. But when I go to reach out to any client, whether it's a brand, an individual, a notable figure, I always try and say, is this my ideal client? Do they show up in a way that, that allows me to be my best, which I specialize in natural and radiant makeup for? Predominantly female entrepreneurs are notable figures that are gonna be up on stages or brands. And so that's where it comes from. Is that first initial, like, instinct. It's a gut instinct. Is this my client? Do I align with this person? Are they projecting a look and vibe that I wanna be around and associated with? If the answer is yes, then I'll reach out.

[Ashley]

Wow. And you have to be in such, like, abundance mentality to do that. Cause if you're in scarcity, you're gonna reach out to all 25 and be like, I have to get one. You know?

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah, we all know what a Red Flag client does. Yeah, A Red Flag client is no bueno.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Ashley Firo]

They suck your time, they suck your energy. They're probably gonna leave you a terrible review. They're probably going to talk crap about you within the industry. It's not worth it. It's way better to put your time and energy into finding out, is this the client that I wanna work with? And then are they a Red Flag client? And if the, if the answer is like, even like, remotely, a little, like a little bit of a flag comes up for me, then I. I won't do.

[Ashley]

Wow. So for our listeners listening, they have a goal that they want. They have a certain client that they want. What would your advice be to them? Just make a list of people that are aligned intuitively and reach out to them.

[Ashley Firo]

Well, first and foremost, being that I'm a visual brand where I create looks for people, I want to make sure that the way that they are showing up currently is in alignment with my personal style. So if it's somebody who's like a total glamazon, like Real Housewives, that's not my client, you know, so that's number one. Do they visually show up in a way that I would align with? Do I think that I can elevate their look? Yes or no. And then I will read about them what do they do? What do they stand for? What is their business about? Do I want to be behind that? Because sometimes the answer is no. And then I will reach out to somebody if I feel like, yeah, I can elevate, I can bring something to the table for this brand, for this individual, for this client. That's where I start to make my decisions. And I make a list, and then I'll go through and I'll do a little stalking, you know, a little TikTok, little Instagram, little website, do a little LinkedIn, see who's associated, see if I know anybody. A lot of times I do. And sometimes if I find somebody on LinkedIn that I know that I'm not really aligned with, and that will be like, okay, next client, they will be completely removed from the list. Because I want to make sure that I am working with people that make me feel good, that I know that I can bring something phenomenal to the table for them. And it needs to be reciprocal. Because I have children, I don't want to be spending time away from them. If I'm working with somebody, that's awful. You know, that's not worth it. So I start from there. You know, it's a little bit of research. Take. Take some time on the front end, but ultimately it pays off on the back end. Because you already know, yes, I align. Yes, I can offer something to them. We're in similar styles. This could be a positive experience, and it usually is. And then they become reoccurring clients. And then you have clients for 10, 12, 15 years. Yeah, easy.

[Ashley]

That's such an amazing strategy. Because it's so, like, light. I don't know. It feels so light.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah, it is. I mean, because we've all been in that situation where you work with somebody that's like, ugh, something bad always happens when I work with this person. And it may not even be something like somebody had an allergic reaction, like, pertaining to your job. It's. It could be like, oh, the TV fell off the wall, or, you know, so and so got into a car accident on their way, and, like, something bad happens, and you just start to notice that is not. That is not an area that I want to be around. And then those things get a little louder and then a little louder, and you realize, nope, we're done. We can't do this anymore. We've had that experience. And then once you have it, you're like, I never want to be in that position again. So you start to see the signs.

[Ashley]

Yeah, that's so Amazing, like, how intuitive you are with your. With your business. That's such a good cheat code.

[Ashley Firo]

I'm very much like a gut instinct person. It's a blessing and a curse. And I think a lot of people sometimes wish that they had that gut instinct. Sometimes it's like, I really want to do this. It sounds so cool, but, like, I know it's not going to end well, you know? And it's. It sucks because you're like, I just want to ignore it and do the thing because it would be really cool to do. Um, but ultimately, if you. I think everyone has it. Not everybody always listens to it, though. Yeah, you get that hit.

[Ashley]

Yeah. And yours is in the shower. I love it.

[Ashley Firo]

It's in the shower.

[Ashley]

Okay, we've got some more. Some more cheat codes. One is. This is kind of what we're talking about now. Wow. Saying no builds respect faster than saying yes. Yeah, that's good. Tell me about that.

[Ashley Firo]

So I find when you have boundaries within your business that initial, like, is this aligned with me? That's one element of a boundary. But two is how people interact with you, what they ask of you when you have hard and fast boundaries, that you know that, hey, I'm not going to do X, Y, and Z. It does build respect with your client. And I learned this very clearly, actually, from a student of mine. She asked me. She was a hairstylist, and she owned six salons nationwide. And she asked me to educate for all of her salons. And I was like, yeah, that sounds really great. And so we went down the rabbit hole and put together a proposal. And she hit me back and was like, ash, I can't afford this. Would you be willing to do it for this? And I said, like, immediately, no, but in a very gracious, respectful way. And she told me after the fact, she's like, I never wanted something more. I know you said no to me immediately without even hesitating, and you were so kind. She's like, you weren't rude, but I never wanted you more. I wanted to figure out a way. I went back to my husband to see if we could make it work, because I respected the fact that you respected your time and what you had to offer. And I wanted it so bad.

[Ashley]

Wow.

[Ashley Firo]

And once you hear that from somebody, you're like, okay, yeah, people can respect who I am, what I bring to the table. I need to respect that within myself. And when you say yes to everything, you just become like. Like the placator to the group. Like, yeah, sure, no problem. Like, Yeah, I can do that. But that's not demanding respect. No, sorry. I mean, as basic as I need to have natural light, I need to have a table, I need you to sign the contract before I show up.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Ashley Firo]

You know basic, basic things by saying, no, I'm sorry. Happened today in California, one of my trained teams working in my studio, the girl didn't pay her balance and I said, we will not be working with you. And she instantly was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I respect everything that you do. I'm doing it right now. I completely spaced. I was on a flight, blah, blah, blah. But it's simple things like that where you really draw the line in the sand and people will respect you so much more than you being like, oh, it's okay, you can pay after. Like, we've all done that. Right. But that, that means the next time you book that client, guess who forgot to pay again? Yeah. Guess who maybe like, did it a week later. Those boundaries, the line that you draw in the sand. Absolutely not. We won't even show up. We won't open the door. I mean, that, that sounds harsh, but we're not going to do a service for free.

[Ashley]

Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it creates a better experience for the client, too.

[Ashley Firo]

High percent.

[Ashley]

I've had a lot of service providers in many areas of my life in business that are like a little, oh, it might be at this time, we'll come between, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is there an invoice? I don't know. Will they send it after? How? Like, it's helpful to be extremely clear. Like, it's helpful to, to your clients. Be extremely clear from the beginning.

[Ashley Firo]

And you know the word like no or not agreeing to doing these things creates clarity in your business. I think that's a cheat code. It's like, who are you and what do you stand for? And most importantly, like, what are you not okay with? It creates clarity and then that can be relayed to your client so they know what boundaries and like, within what limits are they to interact with you? Like, receiving a text message from somebody at 11 o' clock at night is not appropriate. You know, like, if you're a real estate agent, people will text you at all hours. It's like, no. Like, I work during normal business hours. These are my boundaries. And creating that clarity to people is really powerful.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Something I really like to do. A little bonus, giving back cheat code. Whenever I'm in situations where people like, genuinely can't afford working with Me, I love to sponsor someone. Meaning like we have. There's mentorship, but there's also sponsorship where like you can send them somebody like, Courtney, I want to book a one on one with you, but. Or I want your social media management. I'm not taking on social media management clients right now. So I will send them to a specific person and like every month or two months I have like a different person that reaches out that I'm then like, go to this person and um, yeah, it's like bonus chico. That's fun to do.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah, it is.

[Ashley]

I mean like a more beginner person.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah. And you're solving a problem for them and still staying in touch and. Yeah, but still having the boundary.

[Ashley]

But still having the boundary. Yes, yes, it can be a nice way to establish that boundary. But there are people who are like, I can't afford working with you. But they actually could. And they. It's like overcoming a money fear.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah, 100%.

[Ashley]

And then there's people that are like, I just started my business, you know, so.

[Ashley Firo]

Of course.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Okay. Not every dollar is worth it.

[Ashley Firo]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Just. Oh, yeah. Just because someone can pay your rate doesn't mean that's the right fit.

[Ashley Firo]

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, just because somebody has the money to pay you does not mean that they are your client. I think the first thing when you're starting a business or if you're having kind of a reset moment in, in your business or in your life is who do you want to align yourself with? Who is your ideal client? What is it that you do? Like, what sets you apart? How do you do it uniquely? And if somebody comes to you and they're like, oh my gosh, I've heard great things about you. I want to book you, we want, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, I don't do blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, well, we have no problem with your rate. Like, we'd love to have you. We've only heard good things. You need to be able to say this thing over here that I do not do, me going and trying to do that is not going to end well. Therefore that money is not going to be beneficial. Right. It's not the right client. And more than anything, to me, money has energy. So if I take money from something that feels a little icky, or maybe the person was a little snarky or you know, is asking me for something that I don't do, that money in my bank account doesn't feel good. And I don't want that because it will almost taint my space. And that's not something that I'm interested in doing. So. But at the end of the day, like, we all need to pay our bills. So if you have that opportunity where you're like, oh, well, it's great money and like, I don't have anything going on and I, you know, I guess I could do that. You really need to sit back and be like, is gonna, is this gonna be the best thing for me and my business? Is this gonna end up turning into a long term client? Probably not. Cause you don't do X, Y and Z, right? You're, you're, you specialize in something else. And so by saying no to that money, that energy coming in, it also does open up space for the right kind of business to come in. And I don't know how many times this has happened to you, but it's happened to me quite a few times in the beginning of my career is the second you say yes to some job that's maybe not the right fit, not great money, or I'm sorry, not great money, not great energy, the perfect job shows up that is better money, better aligned, better client, better everything, right? So when you are able to say no to that initial job that might be fantastic money, but not really aligned, you then open the door for this fantastic thing to come in. It only happens a couple times. And then you're like, I'm never gonna say yes to that thing again.

[Ashley]

I know. It's the same with the opportunities, partners.

[Ashley Firo]

Like everything, everything, everything.

[Ashley]

It's like a little test, like, how bad do you want it?

[Ashley Firo]

It is a test.

[Ashley]

How, how much do you think you deserve it? And you're like, I fucking deserve it, bitch.

[Ashley Firo]

And the second you say no to that, like, the universe rewards you almost instantaneously. I swear to God, like, I've literally been on the phone saying, like, thank you so much, but, like, I'm not going to be able to do it. And it's like an email pops up, you know, and you're like, thank you. I knew this wasn't right. I knew this wasn't right. So not all money is good. And so you want to make sure that you pay attention to that because you don't want to taint your business. And you also don't want to be putting energy into things that aren't like something you want to do or know how to do. It's only going to make you look stupid. You're an expert at what you do. Stop Doing other things.

[Ashley]

Speaking of being an expert, our next cheat code is your personality is your niche and not just your services.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

Ooh, that's good. Yeah. You're saying most creatives, like, over focus on what they do instead of how they do it. How I see this is like, a lot of people are like, courtney, what's my niche? I need to find my niche before I can do anything. What's my niche? And it's like. Or they're like, this niche is too saturated. Whatever. All this bullshit about niches. I'm like, it's really, you're. It's important, but it doesn't really matter. Like, you matter your personality. The fact that stuff is filtered through you is what matters. Right. Like, I'm curious what you, your, your thoughts on this.

[Ashley Firo]

I think a lot of times service based entrepreneurs think of their business as like a menu card. Like, I visualize it as like bullet points. Like, I do this, I do this, I do this. Which one do you want to pick? Well, I'm a makeup artist. I specialize in natural and radiant makeup. So do thousands of other people.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Ashley Firo]

So I need to focus on how I do that uniquely for my client. That is going to be what my niche is. And so for me, I create a safe and comfortable environment for a client to be vulnerable and to have a transformation so that they can walk out of my studio or out of my chair feeling like a famous version of themselves. That's what I do uniquely. It's not just the makeup. So you need to figure out what, what is your secret sauce? What is your, you know, personality or unique way of doing that thing that everybody else does? That's what you want to create your brand around. Yeah.

[Ashley]

I think this is why it's important in your brand building, to bring into it, to talk about, to post about things that are outside that thing you do. So, like, if you're a personal trainer, I don't know, don't only post workout videos. Like, I also want to hear about your dog and the fact that you're a mom and the places you love to travel to, because that's what's going to resonate. Anybody can have a workout video, anybody can have whatever. But what sets it apart is who you are. Like, that is why people are going to want to work out, work out with you, get their makeup done, whatever it might be. Like, it is so far beyond.

[Ashley Firo]

Just like the menu, it is so far beyond that. And at the end of the day, as a service provider, people are coming to you in A very vulnerable state. They're usually maybe, maybe they have some hair loss and they're going to a hairstylist and they're nervous and uncomfortable. Maybe they're going to a therapist and they want to work through some past trauma. They're coming to you very sensitive, very fragile for whatever it might be, you need to remember that that's like a gift and an honor, number one. But number two, you also like via social, you need to create an experience for them so they could imagine, like what, what does your space look like? What, what is Ashley or Courtney like? Like I want to see them talking to the screen. I want to see, you know, what it is they do and maybe some behind the scene working with another client so they could imagine themselves with you in your space doing what you do. Because otherwise coming to somebody with acne or hair loss or trauma just randomly out of the blue from this menu isn't going to resonate. Right. They need to be able to feel that connection with you and you need to honor that connection and share with them. Like, this is what it's going to feel like, this is what it's going to look like, this is what it's going to sound like. This is who I am. And if that resonates and you feel good and you like my bubbly personality or you like my calming nature, whatever it might be, whoever you are, that's what's going to get people to actually send the email or pick up the phone and call and book you. It's very different.

[Ashley]

Yeah. That brings us to the next cheat code, which is the client experience is the brand. Wow.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah. Because remember, like even just saying like your space, people want to be able to imagine what it's going to want. It's going to look like, what it's going to feel like to come into my studio with no makeup on. Like, are there 500 people walking past looking at you with your acne showing, you know, they want to know what that feels like. So that experience from then, it's not just your space, but it's also everything from your initial call, your emails, your tone, your follow up process, requesting reviews, all of those elements play into the experience for the client and people buy in to how you make them feel versus just the service that you provide. So if that experience is amazing and it's heartfelt and it's connected, or even if it's just thoughtful or you are being proactive and anticipating their questions, you know, you don't have to be like me, where like, hey, we connect on a different level. You could just be like hey, I'm sure you're wondering X, Y and Z or here's some information on how to prepare. Okay, great. We had our experience together, wanted to touch base. How was it? Do you have any questions for me? This is our go forward plan, blah blah blah blah. That whole experience is what people buy into and you need to keep it consistent and you need to keep it high, high high high high quality because that's what keeps people coming back. And it's also what people say about you when you're not in the room.

[Courtney Johnson]

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[Ashley]

To see you guys there.

[Courtney Johnson]

Join the Sunrise Content Club today.

[Ashley]

Tell me more.

[Ashley Firo]

Well, I feel like in a service based industry everyone does everything. There's a million hairstylists, there's a million massage therapists, but if you are having this excellent client experience, everything from the water that they're getting, to how to prepare before they come in, to what to do when they leave, when you have an excellent level of follow up, that's what they are talking to their friends about, that's what they are going to refer to, you know, their business partner or mention when somebody says, hey, I need a new hairstylist. Oh my God. I had this great experience and she, she told me about this new product. It's completely changed my life. You know, that's what people are talking about when you're not in the room and that's how you get referrals and that's how you have a long term business.

[Ashley]

Yeah, that's so helpful.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

Ooh, this next cheat code is really spicy.

[Ashley Firo]

Uh oh.

[Ashley]

Charge for the outcome, not the time. This is so true. I love this one.

[Ashley Firo]

I love talking about money. Not everybody does, but ultimately you want to be charging for what you're giving the person. So a lot of times in the service based industry you are getting a lot of pushback. People are like, well you only did my makeup for an hour. Okay, that's fair. But we know just a little sidebar that it's not just the hour of Makeup, but it's the sanitation beforehand, the sanitation afterwards, the million eat emails, phone calls, text messages with in a bride, for example, the planner, the photographer, the venue, like there's a lot. So it's not just one hour, it's all those things. But separate to that, you're charging for your experience, your training and ultimately knowing that you're going to have the perfect experience. A bride's paying, let's say $15,000 for photos. You're paying to know that your photos will be perfect.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Ashley Firo]

You're paying to know that you're going to have a provider there with you that's not going to let anything bad happen, that they're going to hedge against the crazy bridesmaid or the, you know, mother in law that's challenging. You're paying for all of that. It's the outcome, it's not just the time. And I think when you are providing a service, it's really hard when somebody pushes back and is like, I don't understand. Bridal's a great example. Brides are two to three times more expensive than say a mother or a bridesmaid. And everyone goes, why? Well, it's all of these reasons that I mentioned. It's not only the hours leading into it, but it's that end experience where you're going to have a fantastic time, your makeup is going to look amazing, you are going to feel held and safe and protected. You're going to have these phenomenal photos and video that you're gonna have for the rest of your life. And that at the end, when you look back, it's, you're gonna have the best day ever. Right. There was no drama. Even if there was drama, you didn't know about it because they took care of it. You're paying for that outcome. And it's very hard to get sucked in as a service provider to just be looking at it as like one hour, two hours. Again, back to that menu. I'm only offering this. No, that's not it. We are offering this entire experience and what the outcome which a bride, an amazing wedding. Yeah.

[Ashley]

How do you, how do you scale a service based business? I imagine that could be hard because there kind of becomes a cap of the hours you have per week and a cap of like even if you're best, best in the industry of what you're charging per hour, let's say like a thousand dollars an hour or something, is there a way to scale beyond that?

[Ashley Firo]

There's a few ways to scale. You know, ultimately, as we said on the front of this conversation, like your personality is your brand. And so a lot of times people are like, Ashley, I want to book you, I want to book you, I want to book you, I want to book you. I don't want somebody else. I know they've been with you for 14 years, but I want you. And so when you get to that point in your career, then you go, okay, well now I have two opportunities. I can either remove myself from this and only do a few people and make it seem really exclusive and then train in a phenomenal team underneath or you can charge me a ton, ton, ton, ton. And innately you are going to have less clients. But I think ultimately you want to be able to build the framework, a team of people and systems underneath you that you're still involved. That's how I've done my business. I will still have the initial call, I will still be involved in the, in their day. I will be their 911 contact if they need me. But they don't need me because I have a team that's been properly trained and systems in place that everything is taken care of. They feel personally taking, taking care of where I'm, I am connecting with them, I'm sending them a text message or a voice note so that they know I'm thinking about them. But I'm not necessarily involved in their day to day process. So scaling a service based business has to be looking at it from, you need to level up, you need to increase your pricing, you need to become a little bit more exclusive by, but by building a phenomenal team underneath. And then I think you need to be able to be flexible in your business to be able to grow into other areas. So whether that might be public speaking, you know, being a brand ambassador, that's another way to scale yourself, your personality into other facets of your of a potential business. But you really do need to have the systems in place. You cannot skip that step, which a lot of people don't want to do.

[Ashley]

How have you developed systems? Do you have any systems? Cheat codes?

[Ashley Firo]

Oh, so much trial and error, right? Yeah, over 20 years. Ultimately you want to look at the, the CL pain points where, where are you running into problems over and over again and how can we make that process a little bit easier? To me, I think the biggest cheat code that I could give people is on the front end. Set the expectation from your client on call number one. Because I think a lot of times people will chit chat or talk or send a proposal, but they're not super Hard and fast, about like, hey listen, this is how it's going to go, this is what's going to happen. And by saying that from the get go there is no confusion on the go forward plan, then you know exactly what your systems are going to be to execute what you just told them. So making sure that you are anticipating problems, questions really. And I send a lot of like automated emails saying, oh my gosh, we're so excited for you to come in. I'm sure you're wondering X, Y and Z. If you have other questions, let me know. So looking at where you're getting hiccups or the same question over and over again and implement a system, a video, an email, automated text message and automated voice message to those people so that they feel like you are taking care of them. But they, you don't have to put a ton of time, effort and resources into it.

[Ashley]

Yeah, you're like anticipating the problem before it even happens. That's really good. I've actually been doing that with my Sunrise content club. Anyone that's like dropped off. I've been having one on one like hey, can I just have a conversation? And it's been the same problems every single time. And I'm like, okay, this is a very clear pattern. I know exactly where to tweak this. I know where to tweak this. Now I'm like, I'm gonna do this with every one of my offerings forever. It's so helpful.

[Ashley Firo]

It is. Because then you're not having one the same conversation over and over again. I mean I can't tell you how many times in my life like I've written the same email where I'm like, I cannot write this again. You know what I mean?

[Ashley]

Like I've already answered this question so.

[Ashley Firo]

Many times, so many times. And like okay Ash, like there's something wrong here. We need to change. We need to change. It's not landing. Sometimes that makes sense to us, doesn't necessarily make sense to the client. So it's like okay, well where are we missing? And so hedging against those questions that you're getting time and time again a little bit before it might come up is super duper helpful. It also helps with that client experience that we were talking about because you are anticipating their needs. But then when it comes to systems, I think a lot of people drop off on actually doing the system. So making sure that it's something that is consistent that you can actually keep up with. So you can't have like 50 different like triggers on Every single thing you need it to be, you know, something that makes sense to you. So in my business, if a client reaches out, they're going to get a follow up email with, you know, details of our discussion and whatever information that they need, I always let them know very clearly. Falls in your court. We're a no pressure zone. Would love to work with you. You seem really aligned, amazing. I'll let you decide if you want to move forward so they know what to expect. And I tell them straight up, hey, I'm not going to chase you down.

[Ashley]

Yeah, love you.

[Ashley Firo]

You seem amazing, but I'm not going to chase you down. If you want to work together, let me know.

[Ashley]

I love that.

[Ashley Firo]

And then from there, if they want to work together, then, okay, next step, then this is what we're going to do. X, Y and Z. And I know very clearly where they are in the flow. And so if a step gets missed, it's very easy to be like, oh my God, an email didn't go out to you or oh my gosh, whatever you need, here it is. But it's not very complicated. It's very consistent. And that helps me because when you have a hundred clients a month, it's a lot, it's a lot to maintain. And so keep it simple. Don't overthink it. But you want to be like one step ahead. That's what really helps with that client experience. That way they're not being like, oh, shoot, oh, where am I supposed to go? What was I supposed to do? What am I bringing? Oh my God, am I? You know, all of that stuff is, is very clear. And I hate to say it, but I do repeat myself a lot in those systems, like what is in the email. Just a reminder, make sure. Because that one, when they come, it's a great experience. I'm not like, oh, shoot, now you got to go to the bathroom and wash your face off.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Ashley Firo]

You know, come with no makeup on, be moisturized. I want you to do this, be fresh, you know, and like being really clear and consistent in that communication. I use the same verbiage over and over and over again so that they're not confused. It's very, very clear.

[Ashley]

Yeah. So repetition, repetition, repetition to anticipate problems, solve them before they even come up. So we're having smoothness through the whole customer journey.

[Ashley Firo]

Exactly that. And when you have a high number of clients, when you are trying to scale your business, if you're not using the same verbiage, repeating it over and over again, you kind of Are like, wait, did I, did I tell them that? Like, what did I say to that person now? It's like, it's like a script. Like, I know it backwards and forwards. I know exactly where I am in the flow. Like, it's very, very clear. So everyone's getting the same information. Even if it's coming out of my mouth or an email, it's all very consistent.

[Ashley]

And do you have, like, documents, like standard operating procedures? Like, where is this? Like, how's reorganized about it?

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

I really want to be more organized.

[Ashley Firo]

Oh, I use like a CRM. I use dubsado for my business for a lot of the automation, workflow, contracts, payments, things like that. To me, it's very simple and easy. And then when it comes to, you know, the one off kinds of things, yes, I do keep a very detailed list of documents that I might copy and paste if I need to send. I have tons of PDFs, very visually friendly PDFs, very little words, lots of beautiful pictures. But people don't read. Yeah, people do not read. And so I find that I have to verbally say what needs to be said included in a, you know, PDF very clearly. Like, dumb it down. This PDF is exactly what you're paying. You know, like, this is the pricing and there's nothing on there that wouldn't pertain to them. People don't read. So you need to make sure that what you're sending them is like, very clear, very concise. So I have lots of different documents that I'll send along with what they need so that it's like, it's in your inbox. Check it out. Here it is again. Here's a text message. So it's all very, very consistent.

[Ashley]

I feel like this is like a good side hustle idea if you're not already doing this, but like a template bundle for artists.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah, love that. Love that.

[Ashley]

Okay, we have two more cheat codes. The next cheat code is. I love this one. Content that converts is not always the prettiest.

[Ashley Firo]

Ugh. So this kind of like, leads into what we were talking about before that people want to be able to kind of imagine what it might be like to work with you, especially when they're coming to you in this, you know, kind of softer state. So we love a before and after, right? The Internet loves a before and after. It is transformational. It's impactful, it's great. We love. But it's not going to convert somebody to be like, I can't wait to work with her. So it's not always the most beautiful thing that you're putting out into the world, but it is the thing that's telling the story of what it's like to work with you. So I think you have to remember that, that it doesn't matter if, you know, maybe you have, like. I always say to photographers, I'm like, make sure I don't have 14 neck rolls, you know, because I'm always like, sideways and in these weird positions. And then at the end of the day, like, I'll post the 14 neck roll picture and. And that's the one that does the best because it's like me authentically doing what I do. Right. So don't get caught up in, like, that perfect, perfect picture. Or maybe if somebody has, like a little bit of acne that's showing, like, that's okay. That's real life. Those are real people. And that also creates the expectation of what the end result is. I think in our industry and with Instagram and TikTok, everything's like, beautifully filtered and just perfect. And that's great, but nobody's walking around looking like that. You know, we do our very darndest to get you there, but we're still human and our faces move and that's the nature of being a human being with skin, you know, living and breathing. So ultimately, the beautiful picture is fantastic. We love it. You have to show your work in its highest and best form. But what's going to convert and get people to pick up the phone is understanding what it's going to be like to work with you. You. So don't be afraid to post some behind the scenes. Maybe it's something silly. Maybe it's like, oh, no, I dropped my ballot. It shattered everywhere. Like, ah. But that's real life, you know, I'm.

[Ashley]

Sure that's like the top performing post, actually.

[Ashley Firo]

Probably.

[Ashley]

Yeah. A lot of people get in this mindset that they have to have, like, the perfect photo, the perfect editing, the perfect audio. And I've never had a post that's like, perfect editing convert. Like, it's always something random where I look awful. I just, like, post something randomly and I'm like, that's when people come out of the woodworks. And it's never the highly produced stuff, like, truly. It's also consistency, too. It's so much more important, like, consistency, vulnerability than having something that's perfect.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah. And I think as somebody who's coming to me wanting their makeup done, like, they want to see what I look like with no Makeup on, too. You know what I mean? They want to be able to be like, apples for apples. Like, I want to be. This is a real person. I want to be able to relate to them and feel like, okay, I can do this. I'm shy and embarrassed, but if she can do it, like, I can show up without makeup on, you know, And I think that that really creates a connection with people.

[Ashley]

Yeah, that's so beautiful, you know? Okay, we have our last cheat code, and that is build a brand that can evolve with you. Because what you offer today shouldn't box you in your future. Your personal brand should be flexible. Tell me more about this.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah, so you were asking about being able to scale your business as a service provider. And. And a lot of people do, like, struggle with that. It's like, okay, well, I'm in the salon. I'm behind the chair. I'm doing hair, I'm doing blowouts. Like, this is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life, because I don't know how to evolve past this. So the goal is to build a business that can evolve as your interests evolve, your experience evolves, maybe your life circumstance changes. If you get stuck in one spot behind the chair doing blowouts all the time, how are you ever going to create space to be able to become an educator for the hair care brand that you really love so much? So making sure that you are spending time on. I try to do it at least on a weekly basis. Like, what am I feeling? Where am I going? What do I want in my business? What's the direction like having, like, a check in with Ashley? What the heck is going on? Do we like where our business is going? Do we like how busy it is? Are we doing things that we're really, really lo. Is there something else that we could be doing that would be more fulfilling? Kind of like we were talking about before we started? And so you want to be checking in with yourself to know, okay, what is the direction and am I putting the, you know, energy into creating a business that will be able to be open to this? And ultimately, to scale your business, you are going to have to be able to step away from behind the chair. You know what I mean? You can't. I talk about this with my dad all the time. He's like, there's only so much Ashley. You know? And it's like, yeah, you're right. There is only so much Ashley. But I can leverage Ashley in a different way. So ways to do that is as time gone, but have as Time has gone by. I'm increasing my pricing. I'm creating more exclusivity and being able to work with me, where I'm exponentially more expensive than working with my team. I am, you know, working with brands. I am helping them on their products. So you're. You're dabbling in different things and kind of seeing what works, and then you want to be able to be like, okay, that feels good. If I want to be a public speaker and I want to educate artists on how to do balayage. Okay, great. So how are we going to do that? We need to create flexibility in our schedule. You can't be in your business so much, and in the chaos of saying yes to everything and, you know, dealing with everybody else's emergencies, you need to be able to start saying no and setting time aside so that your business can grow in a different direction. Be flexible. Pivot the word of the last few years and really just, like, focus in on what brings you joy. I think that's ultimately what it comes down to is, like, at the end of the day, when we're old and gray and we're gonna look back at our careers as entrepreneurs, like, what brought you joy? And if being behind the chair, to use this example, wasn't it. So how can we evolve past that? So flexibility is key. So if that means taking one less client and increasing your rate by 15 ahead to accommodate that, then that's what you need to do. You need to sit down and have that hard conversation with yourself.

[Ashley]

Yeah, I think that's so such an easy, like, actionable strategy that immediately everybody listening right now can implement, like, one less client. How much more money do you need to charge per client? Like, great, you just saved yourself three hours a week or something like that is so great. I love that.

[Ashley Firo]

But then you actually have to use those three hours. Yes, right.

[Ashley]

Yes, Use the three hours.

[Ashley Firo]

We have to use those three hours and really figure out, like, how are we going to leverage that time that we have into the space that we want to be in? I think a lot of times people go, ah, I got three hours off. I could just chill, you know? And really, if we're an entrepreneur, it's about working hard and evolving and really chasing our passions. And so do the work. At the end of the day, do the work.

[Ashley]

Where do you think you got your work ethic from?

[Ashley Firo]

My parents are entrepreneurs. Can you tell?

[Ashley]

Yeah, that's. That checks out.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah. My parents got married when they were 18, on their own. Had my sister when they were 19 and they have essentially, like, worked for themselves their entire life. And they. I'm so proud of them. They retired at 50 years old.

[Ashley]

Wow. Oh, that's awesome.

[Ashley Firo]

So they've been retired now over 15 years. And one of the things that my dad always told me is like, don't chase the money. The money will come. And don't be afraid to do things without the money. So I was a corporate girly and quit my job with no safety net to be a makeup artist.

[Ashley]

Wow.

[Ashley Firo]

Which I'm sure you could imagine. Every adult in my life was like, what the actual. You know, But I knew that it was the right thing to do. You know, I just had that gut instinct, and I. I knew that I was gonna, you know, in a sink or swim situation, I was gonna swim. And so at the end of the day, we only have ourselves to fall back on, and so that's what we do. You just don't have any other option.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Wow. That's so powerful. Well, Ashley, where can everybody find you? Work with you. You have a lot of ways to work with you. And you got merch now. That's so cool.

[Ashley Firo]

Cool. My merch. You can find me on social on Ashley Fearo Mua or my website, ashleyfiro.com beautiful. Yeah.

[Ashley]

And how can people work with you? Book you? Like, what are the different ways to work with you?

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah. So if you are a brand or an individual or a bride that wants makeup, reach out. Let's get on a call to discuss what your goals are, and we can work together that way. If you are an artist that are that's looking for help with your business on how to take yourself to the next level, reach out on my website and we can schedule a coaching call and potentially take you through the business of makeup and business makeup, bridal, if you're the right fit.

[Ashley]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Ashley Firo]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

Beautiful. Thank you for coming on.

[Ashley Firo]

Thank you for having me.

[Courtney Johnson]

Okay, y', all, if you like this episode, you would love, love my Patreon. Okay? You get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources, and a lot of juicy shit.

[Ashley Firo]

Okay?

[Courtney Johnson]

So I hope to see you on my Patreon.