Puppet Master Killer - Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder

Episode: "Puppet Master Killer – Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan"

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman

Release Date: May 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engrossing and darkly comedic investigation, James and Jimmie explore a murder case that rocked the affluent suburb of Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan. What at first seems like a tragic but straightforward homicide of a beloved community member soon pulls listeners into a tangled web of secret lives, BDSM sex dungeons, betrayals, bumbling criminal plans, and an unforgettable cast of small-town characters. With their signature irreverence, the hosts balance empathy for the victim with scathing humor directed at the perpetrator and the bizarre events that unfolded.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Setting: Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan (07:01–17:30)

• Town Background: Wealthy Detroit suburb, historically a "summer resort" for the city’s upper class. Hosts discuss local reviews—ranging from glowing endorsements to snobby complaints about the "ghetto nucleus" of Detroit next door. (08:56–12:55)
• Socioeconomics & Demographics: Predominantly white, upper-middle-class, older/married residents, high median income, and expensive real estate. (13:33–16:31)
• Community Events & Activities: Critique of the hyper-privileged “ladies night” and obscure festival lineups ("$155 tickets to see bands like TwinSick and Cream with a K!?"). (17:48–22:47)

2. Meet the Key Players (24:33–44:43)

• Jane Ingelbrecht Bashara (Victim): Overachieving, responsible, beloved businesswoman, family breadwinner, involved mother, president of clubs and church committees. "She's the one you can count on." (26:00–42:33)
• Bob Bashara (Husband/Perpetrator): Son of a powerful Michigan judge, owned rental properties and local bars, enjoyed a reputation as a “pillar of the community” while projecting charm and affluence, but described as a "big, polo shirt-wearing guy" with a drinking habit and inconsistent business success. (33:21–51:24)

3. Double Life & The Sex Dungeon (58:16–83:09)

• Bob’s Secret BDSM World:
  • Bob constructs a clandestine dungeon in the dank basement of his strip mall bar, the Hard Luck Lounge ("naming bars a depressing name...I don't get it." – James, 51:26).
  • Attends and hosts swingers and BDSM parties under the moniker “Master Bob.”
  • BDSM lifestyle described as "safe, sane and consensual" by insiders, but Bob regularly crosses those lines, seeking control and inflicting serious harm: "[My beating] left marks for about three months." – (Janet, 114:48)
  • Memorable quote: “He’d sit in his leather throne and master Bob it up.” (75:09)
• Manipulative Behavior & Multiple Affairs:
  • Maintains several mistresses (Rachel Gillett, Janet Lehman), lying about being a "widower" to each, promising love and a future, even as he lives with his wife and children. (86:40–89:41)
  • Most troublingly, takes advantage of vulnerable women: “I needed food and shoes for my children...so I answered Bob's ad.” (69:03 – paraphrased)

4. The Murder Plot Unfolds (94:05–135:48)

• The Hitman, Joe Gentz (a.k.a. Bob's Igor):
  • Gentz, with an IQ of 67 and clear mental disabilities, becomes Bob’s pawn (“social and reasoning capacity of a third grader”; 109:33).
  • Bob offers Gentz a few thousand dollars and a used Cadillac to “take care of” his wife, couching the request as roughing up a "bad tenant" before becoming explicit.
• The Night of the Murder (Jan 24, 2012):
  • Jane is ambushed in her garage after work; strangled and beaten, then her body is dumped in her Mercedes in Detroit. Notable for wearing house slippers—a sign she never expected to leave her home. (132:32–134:29)
  • Bob busies himself with an “alibi” by sweeping his bar’s back alley (something he’s never done) and showing up to socialize.
• Botched Cover-Up:
  • Bob calls police about Jane’s “disappearance” only after the body is discovered, and is described as “more mildly concerned than distraught.” (125:02)
  • Attempts to deflect suspicion by suggesting carjackers from Detroit are to blame: “Those [n-words] from the city did it.” (138:13)
• The Dominoes Fall:
  • Gentz confesses to police that Bob made him do it, brandishing a gun. Initially not believed, he is later charged and flips on Bob. (145:41–148:04)
  • Evidence mounts: cell phone records, DNA, multiple witness statements about Bob soliciting a hit, and attempted hits on other witnesses from jail. (161:34–163:36)

5. Trial, Fallout, and Legacy (173:12–189:50)

• Alex Jones-Level Spectacle: As Bob’s secret life of degradation, humiliation, and violence is aired in the courtroom, his defense argues Jane “knew all about it” and consented, despite all evidence to the contrary.
• Conviction & Sentencing:
  • Found guilty on every count: murder, conspiracy, solicitation, obstruction, witness intimidation.
  • Life without parole; tacked onto a prior 80 months–20 years for soliciting Gentz's murder in prison. (182:30–185:47)
• Aftermath:
  • Bob’s appeals fail amid claims of “press as a brood of vipers”; dies of liver disease in prison in 2020 (“Hey, he’s dead. Who cares?!” – James, 189:45)
  • Jane’s family founds a domestic violence nonprofit ("Turning Point") in her honor.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He’d sit in his leather chair and master Bob it up.” — James, on the absurdity of suburban sex dungeons (75:09)
• “Bruises for three months?! That’s sick! If you like hurting people you’re a sick fuck—go to therapy.” — James (115:00)
• “I did not kill my wife. I had nothing to do with this.” — Bob Bashara, Good Morning America interview (150:48)
• “Once I pay the money, it’s a fucking conspiracy. Again.” — Bob caught on wire arranging jailhouse hits (163:27)
• “Why didn’t he just go live out his scummy little dungeon life and leave my daughter alone?” — Jane’s mother, impact statement (183:29)

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Important Timestamps

• Town Deep-Dive: 07:01–17:30
• Introduction to Jane & Bob Bashara: 24:33–44:43
• Bob’s Dungeon & Alt Life Exposed: 58:16–83:09
• Affairs, Abuse & Manipulation: 84:59–94:05
• Plotting & Execution of the Crime: 94:05–135:48
• Investigation & Unravelling: 135:48–173:12
• Trial Testimony & Verdict: 173:12–185:47
• Aftermath & Legacy: 185:47–189:50

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Tone & Takeaway

James and Jimmie’s hallmark blend of in-depth, carefully researched storytelling and cutting, conversational humor makes even the most sordid details digestible. They emphasize the tragedy of Jane Bashara’s murder while skewering Bob’s narcissistic antics and the bizarre small-town dynamics that allowed a pillar of the community to hide in plain sight.

In the words of Jane’s mother: “Why couldn’t he just live in his own jizz puddle and leave my daughter alone?” (183:29) The tragic lesson: monsters aren’t always hiding in dark alleys—sometimes they’re running the Rotary Club, right next door.

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Books Referenced:

• Steve Miller, Murder and Grosse Pointe Privilege
• George Hunter & Lynn Rosenthal, The Sadist, the Hitman, and the Murder of Jane Bashara

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For further episodes, tickets, or to support the show, visit: shutupandgivememurder.com

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Transcript

[James Petregallo]

Take the exit, turn right into the drive thru. Nope, I'm making dinner tonight. You don't have time. Josh has practice.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that's right. I'll just get a salad and fries.

[James Petregallo]

No, just the salad. But salad cancels. Fries. Salad only. Fries. Salad, fries. Food noise isn't fair, but Mochi Health

[Jimmy Whisman]

is the affordable glp.

[James Petregallo]

One source that puts you on the road to successful weight loss. Hey, can I get the fries? Salad?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sorry.

[James Petregallo]

Learn [e-mail] Mochi members have access to

[Jimmy Whisman]

licensed physicians and nutritionists.

[James Petregallo]

Results may vary. This podcast is sponsored by Toxic May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is sharing the message that connection is crucial because good relationships are an essential and sometimes overlooked component of mental well being. If your relationships could use some strengthening, a licensed therapist from Talkspace can help. Therapy can help you communicate better with loved ones, repair conflicts, and understand how to address loneliness and build community. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a therapist within two days. You'll meet with your therapist online on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make personal connections a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's SPACE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80. This week in Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan, the horrible discovery of a brutally murdered woman in her car Looks like it might have been common street crime until detectives discover her seemingly upstanding husband's affairs and secret life as a BDSM dungeon master. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Foreign.

[James Petregallo]

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. Your have chosen correctly. If this is your first episode, buckle up. It's gonna be a wild, weird. So enjoy everybody. Let's just say that before we get to all of that, definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com you need to get your tickets for live shows and merchandise. There's all sorts of new merch up. Church of the Octopus is up, so you can check that out. Do that. Get yourself tickets to live shows here. Next shows with tickets available is going to be after the summer. September 18th in Milwaukee, September 19th in Minneapolis, Milwaukee. Those are almost sold out. Get your tickets now at the Pabs Minneapolis. Get those down, let's go. Don't let Milwaukee punk you. Dilly dally Milwaukee. Then they're going to make fun of you for the whole two more years until we come back. So you don't want to do that. And then of course, October 3rd in Dallas, October 16th and 17th in San Jose and Sacramento, and November 13th and 14th in Tarrytown and Boston. So get in there, get your tickets, shut up and give me. Murder.com is where you do that. Also of course, listen to Crime and Sports, which is right now we're doing a long series on Robert Rozier who killed, killed upwards of 10 people and was in this crazy cult. There's about 10 minutes of sports in a multi part series. So it's more about cults and murder. So check that out. And also your stupid opinions because it's just hilarious because it's amazing. It's just funny and a great show. So do that. And then also get yourself patreon. Do that. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you are going to get every damn thing we put out as soon as subscribe. You're going to get almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Huge catalog to binge on. And then after that, every other week you get new episodes. Two of them as a matter of fact. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder and you get them all this week. What we're going to do for Crime and Sports, it's theme park disasters. We're going to go back to that again. Those are so much fun. We're going to do that then for Small Town Murder. And by the way, we have the Prisoner Dating Game coming up in a couple of these. It is going to be viewer's choice on this one. Okay, do you want to talk about the crash, the Mackenzie Shurilla mess, or do you want to talk about Corey Richards and her sentencing? And there's so much more that didn't come out during the trial about what was going on that night of the murder and all that. Which one would you like to hear? They're both insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do both.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I would like to do. But we'll do them successive weeks and then after that will be the Prisoner Dating Game. Either way. But do that. That'll be a poll up on Patreon. So patreon.com crimeinsports and you get everything. We put everything. All ad free. All the shows we put out. And then on top of that, you get a shout out at the end of the show where Jimmy will try to read your name. But we'll see how that goes. Probably not. There you go. That said, disclaimer time, everybody. This is a comedy show. We're comedians and we're gonna make jokes. Now people are also gonna be murdered because the show is called Small Town Murder and it'd be weird if nobody died. You know what I mean? Gonna be false advertisement. So you go, well, how does that work? How do you do that? Tastefully is how you do it. That's right. What we do, make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why is that?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, but.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There you have it.

[James Petregallo]

That's all. That's how it works. It's very simple. There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of. The fact that someone goes, I think I can get away with this. I'm going to put this. I bet you can't. Or even if you're trying to, we're still going to make fun of you. You know, small town police forces that let murderers go free. We make fun of that kind of thing. It's obvious there. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a crazy wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should never. We might not be for you, but I will check it out, you know, see how it goes. Either way, no complaining later. Let's just say that we warned you. So that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here, clear the lungs, arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

We have to.

[James Petregallo]

We're going to Michigan, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ye.

[James Petregallo]

When you hear this episode, we'll be in Michigan that weekend.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We will.

[James Petregallo]

Tickets are sold out. Sorry about that, but probably not great planning. Maybe you plan it out so you know to do this and then it's sold out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Space to promote James.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I should have done that earlier. Well, I guess not. It's sold out either way. So. Thank you for buying those stickers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was a long time ago.

[James Petregallo]

This is Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And there's a lot of gross there's. A lot of gross points.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

There's Gross Point, which is one town, then there's a bunch of other Grosse Pointe towns. And Grosse Pointe park is one of those towns.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Probably named after somebody, right?

[James Petregallo]

I believe so, yeah. We'll talk about that when we get into the history a little bit here. It's in southeastern Michigan. It's only 15 minutes to Detroit from here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it's right out there.

[James Petregallo]

Just suburb of Detroit. 45 minutes to Washington Township, Michigan. Our last Michigan episode, episode 657, comedy of horrors. That is the one where the guy was having the affair with the German au pair, the 19 year old, and she came over and testified against him. Some horribly embarrassing shit. It was a wild episode. This is in Wayne county, just like Detroit. Area code 313. Now, a little bit of history of this town. Before it was a city, it was incorporated as the Village of Fairview.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which I guess was a chunk of Grosse Pointe Township, which is another area here. From 1850 to 1900, they knocked down all these woods and all that kind of thing, and basically Detroit businessmen bought up all the waterfront. That's how it worked. Yeah. So for a while, Grosse Pointe was Detroit's summer resort, basically. So they had giant houses and summer resort. Yeah, it became like the Hamptons, basically, for Detroit people. Reviews of this town. Okay, here's five stars. Best city to raise a family, exclamation point. Real excited about it. Excellent. Public schools, two waterfront parks, pools, splash pad, private movie theaters. Private movie theater.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Private.

[James Petregallo]

Private. What does that mean? I don't know what that is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know how you get them. Private.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Then how do you go there? Person who's reviewing current resident on Niche. How do you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why are you advertising it? Shut the fuck up.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's private, damn it. I can't go there. Beautiful homes that residents take pride in keeping up. Public service is second to none. Oh, she just described everything's perfect. Three stars. It's a nice place to raise a family, but lacking in things to do better than the other Grosse Pointe communities in terms of diversity. But still has the same bourgeois feel and pressure. Yeah, upper middle class, rich people. Bullshit. Here is three stars. This is fun. Very short. The weather is okay? Pretty average.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, but what about the play?

[James Petregallo]

Nope, the weather's okay. And if there's one thing you'd say for Detroit, it's that the weather sucks. That's if even if you loved everything about it, you'd be like, it's cold. As fuck. In the winter, it's hot as shit. In the summer, the weather's tough here. You know, that's what's tough with this person.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta be a hearty some bitch to survive Detroit.

[James Petregallo]

Here is two stars. Finally. Not a very safe or friendly community. Oh, okay, now here is one that this person. It's way too big to write, to read all of it, but they have a lot of opinions. Okay? This person says that it's a very aesthetic place to live. The neighborhoods are very nice, the schools are great, there's lots of large trees and there's great places to walk around and yada, yada, yada. Okay? So there's that the good, now the bad part. And this is twice as long as three times as long as the good part. Okay? Grosse Pointe borders Detroit, which in my honest opinion is the. In all capital letters, ghetto nucleus. Okay? This guy could have been the murderer in our story this week when we get to that, because he tries to use this. They say Detroit suburbs are the most segregated in America. And seeing how nice Grosse Pointe is, knowing how close Detroit is, is kind of amazing. There are actually fences blocking off streets that at one time were being so close to Detroit. Stifles Gross Point from being in any good retail and restaurants or bringing in any good retail and restaurants, I think because they're afraid all the Detroit riff raff will come in and frequent it. Just say what you mean, say what you want. Yeah, I don't blame them. But all that does is force Gross pointers to drive 20 or 30 miles to suburbs like Troy or Rochester to go to places like Trader Joe's or a nice Target or P F Chang's, as opposed to the shit P F Changs. That's the ghetto P F Changs. Nobody goes to that one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The feeling that I get from this

[James Petregallo]

person is real strong as it goes. The visual pictures coming clean. I know what kind of car they are. I know what kind of car they drive now. I know it all in my head. All in all, if you have to live in the Detroit area, Grosse Pointe offers a really aesthetic neighborhoody experience you will not get in any other suburb of Detroit. It's kind of expensive, though. On a side note, I sometimes feel bad always dogging Detroit, but hey, I wouldn't if it wasn't such a pit. I'm rooting for Detroit to come back, but it's not looking good. You know how far they've come in the last 20 fucking years since the

[Jimmy Whisman]

real estate, it's pretty Actually amazing. Every time we go there, I'm blown away with how beautiful Detroit is.

[James Petregallo]

Well, and they're really doing decent things with it. Especially with all the auto companies going belly up. None of the citizens have much education or willpower. Everyone always seems to say they need help. Why can't they help themselves? I mean, how much effort does it take to pick up the trash from around your house or get a gallon of paint or cut your grass or not rob somebody? They need some good. Here it is. Finally. They need some good role models. Not TI or the three six Mafia. So they finally kind of said what they were getting at the whole time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I knew what they meant, which is,

[James Petregallo]

we all know what everybody. What they mean there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dated ass references. Why don't you just say, stop looking up to Elvis. Fuck you, dude.

[James Petregallo]

Stop looking up to fucking Quincy Jones, please. Like, what are you talking about? Wow. People in this town. TI or three six Mafia. Yeah. If they're looking up to them, all they'll get is Oscars for best fucking music and shit like that. Don't those guys have Oscars? What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

TI Is now a comedian, for Christ's sake. He gets to do anything he wants.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That either means his career went really well or really poorly in his financial planning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think he's just very bored and very wealthy.

[James Petregallo]

People in this town. 11,529. So not a huge place. Not a tiny place. More women than men by a long shot. 53.1% women.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Damn interesting.

[James Petregallo]

I think those are divorces. And they got the house. They got everything. That has to be it, right? Median age, 42.2. So a couple years older than the national average, but kind of suburb. Years of, you take the kids out to the suburbs and that's how it goes. It's 62% married here. That's well above the national average. Less single with children. It's married people with big houses and big lawns and a couple of overprotected kids. Race in this town, 84.7% white, 9.3% black, 1.9% Asian, and 1.2% Hispanic. So religion in this town, 42% of the people here are religious. 50. 50 is the national average. And the most here is Catholic. But it's not by a huge amount or anything like that. Doesn't seem like it's a big deal. But as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the Great Lakes region.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Too bad.

[James Petregallo]

Why not? Unemployment here? Also about average median household income here is where it differs from the rest of the country.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is the disparaging part.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, 69,000 is the rest of the country. Here, 123,859 is the median household income. So they're doing great. It's expensive too though. Cost of living.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I believe it.

[James Petregallo]

Cost of living, 100 is average. Here it's only 92. So you go, that's nice. But the housing is the high part.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's outrageous.

[James Petregallo]

Median home cost here, 438,500 bucks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not that bad. It's expensive. But I'm impressed.

[James Petregallo]

It could be worse, you know what I mean? So if we've convinced you, damn it. That you're tired of having TI as a role model or whatever the fuck you want to move your kids. Looking up to three, six mobs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Juicy J.

[James Petregallo]

We have for you the Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan real estate report. Okay, average two bedroom rental here, here, 1,450 bucks, which is above the national average. But not outrageous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not by much.

[James Petregallo]

No. We've seen much worse here. First house that we have, and this is like about the cheapest thing you're going to find here, is basically a. It's a condo. Looks like a condo apartment complex where the, you know, attached houses, doors next to each other, that sort of thing. It's a two bedroom, two bath. So technically, T bowl for all your b holes there. 1,256 square feet. So, you know, not tiny, not a little box. Decent size, small. But yeah, no land obviously, because you're in a complex. 217,900 bucks. Okay, that's not terrible. I mean, if you want to live there, own an apartment, if you're trying to get into the school district or something, because it's good, that makes sense. $2,000 price cut last week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, two grand, huh?

[James Petregallo]

Next up, five bedroom, five bath, T bowl for each and every B hole. 4,203 square feet. It's a big white house with, you know, the black shutters and the pillars in the front. And it's a nice house. And you can see by the neighbors, like the night, there's a nice house next door. They have a big driveway. It's a pretty darn, pretty damn nice place here. 948,000 bucks for that. Little pricey. And then finally another five bedroom, five bathroom. Your B holes are covered today, everybody. 4,630 square feet. This is on a half acre lot. This is, it's like a brick house. It's different style house than the other one. It's not bad. Built in 1978. Inside, very nice. Looks like it's been. I like the way they have, like this long kind of arcing staircase. It's pretty cool. It's a nice house. 1,300,000 bucks for that, though.

[Jimmy Whisman]

15 minutes from Detroit. You're doing all right.

[James Petregallo]

It's not bad. You're gonna pay for it, though. Things to do in this town. Okay, here we go. I mean, you can go to Detroit. It's right there. That's something to do. Plenty of sports and that sort of thing. Or stick around and go to the Breakaway Music Festival.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

And see a bunch of people I have never heard of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How could they? This is right next to Detroit.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. This is one of those things where I look at this list and go, okay, I know I'm old now and I don't know every new artist that's coming out, the first minute they're out. You know what I mean? It takes a while for me to catch up to shit because I'm busy and not looking for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

But I've never heard of any of these people. So I feel like it's either I'm older than I thought, or these are a bunch of people that no one's heard of. I don't know. I'm going to run them down by you and you tell me if you've heard of any of them. Everyone out there listening, here's two forty something year old men trying to decipher whether these are popular new artists that we've just never heard of or nobody's. This is fun for everybody. Okay. Cannabis. Nope, nope. It's a chick. I saw the picture. Daniel Allen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

I bet he has a guitar, though.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guarantee he plays country of some sort.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, D O, d, d dot, dot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like, oh, like b, o, b, but

[James Petregallo]

dod Dr. Fresh with a ch s, c, h. Dr. Fresh. Well, with an S, C, H. Okay. Fisher. Just like you're a fisherman, Fisher. Gigantic Nightmare without the I in nightmare. That's the only difference. Or the all the vowels taken out of nightmare. Gigantic. All the vowels you need. Nightmare. Take all the vowels out. This whole thing sounds like a gigantic nightmare to me. But now I hope there's not like 18 year olds listening going, you never heard of fucking Gigantic Nightmare?

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's nobody that's ever heard of them.

[James Petregallo]

Grabbitz. One word with a Z. Grabbitz.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I put that together in my head. That's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

It's mercury. Oh, well, hello there, Murph.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I Think. Maybe not.

[James Petregallo]

No. I think you're just thinking of Murph, the surf from Crime and Sports.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

No good. No meaning I know you. K. No good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No good.

[James Petregallo]

No good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No good.

[James Petregallo]

Cream with a K. I don't like that. I don't like that. Lost boy J. All one word. What? I don't even know. P, H, R, V, A Farva. Farva. Maybe Parva, like your parvo, like your dog gets. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A large Farva.

[James Petregallo]

Skilla. S, K, I L, A H. Subtronics.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've heard of that. Right?

[James Petregallo]

Okay. I don't know. I thought that was a brand of turntable. I got a nice Subtronic, so I got a Realistic.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But you guys, I swear I've heard of that. Is it with an X?

[James Petregallo]

No, no X, no Z. Subtronics. One word. Twin Sick. One word. Okay, next up, two friends.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm so mad.

[James Petregallo]

How has no one ever called their group two friends before? How's that not gone up by the wayside for the last 150 years of recorded?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, Kid and Play could have done that.

[James Petregallo]

We're just two friends. Anybody could have done it. Simon and Garfunkel. For Christ's sake. Kid and Play.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hello. We are two friends. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Public Enemy. Could have been that. Just Chuck D and Flavor Flav. Two friends.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Did you say Simon and Garfunkel?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. It's all through the years. It's different people. Whoever's been a team, it doesn't matter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It would have been much easier to remember them, too. I'm sure somebody went, simon, who's that other guy?

[James Petregallo]

These two friends.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The two friends. And Kris Kross could have done that. There's already a Christopher Cross.

[James Petregallo]

How many duets are there? Duos. There's a million of them. Wookie. W, U, K, I. I guess that's Wookie. Y, D, G, your dick. Brew. I have no idea what that stands for. I don't know. Blue. J. All one word, but the U has umlauts over it, so that makes it different.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that French? What is that?

[James Petregallo]

Coda. Leonel. And the O in coda, which is kh, by the way, has a line through it. Like, you know, like some foreign language. Low key. B2B, Ronin. And that also has a slash through it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. They've done something fascinating with. Now they. Now they all want some fascinating letter in there.

[James Petregallo]

They invent letters and numbers and shit and just stick them in their names. Matt B. And then finally, Rink with Two Eyes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rig like skating.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but with two eyes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Festival Tickets start at. For this slide. This is why. I mean, that's why I was asking if we're just old and these people are famous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Amazing. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

$155.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How dare you?

[James Petregallo]

That's. That's more expensive than Disneyland. That's really expensive.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like $155 to see. I don't even know who those are to see.

[James Petregallo]

Twin Sick and lost boy J and cream with a K. Okay. And Reink. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, property crime, actually just under the national average, but not too far under violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. About half the national average. So it's a pretty safe place. Yeah. That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

Let's get into this. Cause woof. This is twisted. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

$155.

[James Petregallo]

$155. I was shocked when I saw that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's gotta be somebody famous in that, right?

[James Petregallo]

I had to look it up on another site to make sure it wasn't, like an error. And it was $15, and they just fucked it up and it was $155 everywhere. It's $155 to get into that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's absurd.

[James Petregallo]

Ridiculous. All right, now we are gonna. Our story. A lot of it's gonna take place in the 2011, 2012 range. So pretty much now. I mean, different operating system on your iPhone is pretty much it. Otherwise, everything is the same social media.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's probably an elderly thing to say, right? Because my son in your hand was three then, and he just graduated high school.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, but that's. I'm just saying, like, it's not that

[Jimmy Whisman]

life is about the same.

[James Petregallo]

It's about the same as far as, like, if you're sitting on your couch, maybe you're watching cable instead of streaming.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But you're probably watching Netflix. Even then, jeans just got tight and

[Jimmy Whisman]

came back to what?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they just go like this every once in a while, which we just keep going along with because they're like, well, fuck, we've been selling them tight jeans for three years. And let's. Let's make it baggy now. So they have to buy all new jeans now. It's been long enough where they threw out all their baggier jeans so they won't have those to fall back on. Now we can sell them baggy jeans again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're going with short ones again now. Short denim is a thing now.

[James Petregallo]

I've seen people in jean shorts now, and I'm like, okay, no, I'm not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, not doing that.

[James Petregallo]

Here's things. We've retired permanently. Jorts. Mullets. I'm not doing that. People with mullets. You're an asshole. You're not fashionable. You're a jerk off. Mullets and jorts are two things that we'll never bring back and we shouldn't. And if kids are doing it, they're wrong. I'll be Seymour Skinner for a second. No, it's the children who are wrong. It's that moment. Okay, so there is a woman that we need to talk about here. Jane Joanne Ingelbrecht. That is her maiden name, Inglebrecht. She will have a married name later on. She's born in 1955. She's from Mount Clemens, Michigan, which we've talked about, I think, in our last Michigan episode. The husband was from. The killer was from Mount Clemens, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. He had him and his father at a shop there or something. Metal shop. Yeah, the metal shop. Yes. Metal shavings. Where they found. There we go. Okay. So he's got a mom named. She has a mom named Lorraine, a dad named John. She has three sisters, so it sounds like four girls raising.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah. She grows up in this area and went to school there. Everybody says out of the four sisters, she's the responsible one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, she's the good one.

[James Petregallo]

She's the smart one and the responsible one and the one that keeps everything together. There's always one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The one you can count on.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yep. There's always one. And that kid gets, you know, gets kind of adulticized too young and fucking ruins us. Yep. Parents start to put things on them and tell them their problems, and there's experience there. I have a little bit of experience with that college here. She went to Central Michigan University in Mount Pleasant and got her bachelor's degree in Business administration. And then she went to the University of Detroit Mercy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which she gets her master's in Business administration. So.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, she's not doing herself any favors if she doesn't want to be the responsible one.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. She's doing all the responsible shit, even that business administration. She's like the one who's going to masters of it. Make sure all the paperwork is right, everything is done correctly. That's wild. So she has. That's 2 degrees, and she's done all sorts of things. Gets a job pretty easily after that with her background. And she's a charming, personable person with A very good educational background and a real sharp way of doing things. So who the hell wouldn't hire her? She sounds good. In the early 80s, she meets a man. She meets a man that she's going to spend the rest of her life with and she is just locked in on him. He is Robert Michael Bashara. B A S H A R A hey everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to deal with your cat's litter box with Boxy Cat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Boxycat.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

I love Brandy. Brandy's my little kitty and I love her and I try to take as good a care of her as possible. She's the only cat in the house with three dogs. So, you know, she kind of gets treated a little gentle and want her to have all the stuff she likes. And the Boxy Cat. This litter is amazing. It's amazing. It's incredible litter. It's wild. This podcast is sponsored by Boxy. Boxy is the last cat litter you'll switch to. And their Boxy Pro Deep Clean is the best cat litter that money can buy. I can vouch for that. By the way. The pro in the Boxy Pro stands for probiotics, which Boxy puts right in the litter. That gobbles up odor causing bacteria and keeps the box continuous. Continuously odor free. Yes, continuously. Not for 10 days. For 20 days. Infinite days of continual odor freshness. And your cat's not gonna. They don't, they don't smell anything. They love it. They go in there so you can tell they're not grossed out by it or anything. They love it. There's no fake sense that'll drive them away. It's just, just clean. It's really great. And you know, that way they won't avoid the box because that's what you're trying to avoid here. You want them to go in the box. And for a limited time, you can get 30% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to boxycat.com smalltown murder and use the code smalltown murder plus with boxy cat. This is so good. It's just such good stuff. You don't need to do full litter changes. That's what's so amazing. Getting that bag out and pouring everything. It's a nightmare doing those litter changes with this. You just scoop, scoop the stuff that needs to come out. You top it off with fresh Boxy cat litter. That's it. It is fantastic. You're gonna love it. And Boxy Cat holds themselves to a higher standard with 100% US sourced clay and thoughtful ingredients with no additives or filters. If you're tired of switching litters looking for the one, get 30% off your boxy [e-mail] small town murder and use the code smalltown murder. That's boxycat.com smalltown murder. And make sure you use our code Small town Murder so they know we sent you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to feed your kitty with smalls.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Smalls.com it is the best food.

[James Petregallo]

It's so good. Number one. It's like real food. Yeah, it's not like cat food, normally dry food. It's just gross. It smells nasty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's terrible.

[James Petregallo]

This. I want to sit down next to her and take a bite. It's really good here. And here's another thing that's a little crazy. I don't mind scooping the cat's litter box anymore. No, Honestly, no. Because ever since we started feeding little Brandy Smalls, her poop's been a lot healthier, smaller and less smelly. The Smalls is better food. That's it. Smalls is fresh human grade cat food that's made from high quality meat, not cheap fillers. You see, meat's easy for cats to digest, which means their bodies absorb the nutrients more. And healthier poops come out. That's how it works. In contrast, normal, the stuff that you'd feed them from the grocery store. That stuff that you feed your cats, made with grains and artificial ingredients that were just. They're hard on your cat's body. And the nasty poop is proof of that. Their body's rejecting it with nasty poops. That's how it works here. And Smalls isn't just good for digestion. 88% of cat parents say after feeding Smalls, their cat is softer, shinier, has more energy to play, and overall just seems healthier because it's really good for cats. Brandy's got a sparkle in her eye. I mean, she is, she's jumping around. She's loving life. And if you want to invest in your cat's health, Smalls is giving you 60% off your cat's first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you go to smalls.com stm if your cat doesn't like it, Smalls will refund 100% of your otter. But trust me, your cat's gonna love the taste of Smalls and you'll love that. Your house no longer smells like a litter box all the time. That's 60% off, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you go to smalls.com smart stm. I feed Brandi Smalls. She loves it. We have a nice arrangement and a good agreement where I give her the Smalls. She doesn't do anything crazy. That's how it works out. It's fantastic. Stop serving your little carnivore a bowl of processed shortcuts for a limited time because you are a small town murder listener. You get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to small.comstm that's 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com stm now back to the show. He goes by Bob. That's important. So we got Bob and Jane here. Now he's born in 1957. He's like a year and a half younger than her, but same ballpark. He has a different upbringing. Here he is kind of like kind of Detroit royalty. Best way to put it here. Yeah. His father was George Norman Bashara Jr. Who went to the University of Detroit Law school and was an attorney and then was a judge on the Michigan Court of appeals from 1967 to 1996. So 30 years sitting on the court of appeals. So he knows everybody there is to know in Detroit, which means that young Bob gets to know everybody and has an air of my shit doesn't stink.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Of course. Yeah. Would you rather have your family be that guy, the judge that everybody knows, or like the local celebrity businessman? Do you know what I mean? Like the carpet king of whatever.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I don't think it matters because they hang out in the same place. Yeah, that's the thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Know each other.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They go to the same fucking parties. They probably, you know, finger the same children and whatever the hell these rich fucks do in their basement.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But you, the carpet king is the cooler guy, right? Well, I believe that he's successful.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he's not buttoned up like. Like this guy. This guy had to go to law school. He had to do everything, right. The carpet king does, like, commercials where he wears a crown, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he, like, he drives a stupid golf cart.

[James Petregallo]

He's wearing a suit of carpet and with a crown on. And he's like, you know, come on down to the carpet king. That's probably the lowest prices ever. And he, like, shoots guns off and shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like he's got A Testarossa Easygo that he drives on the.

[James Petregallo]

That's great. That's exactly probably what it is, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's how that goes. So he grows up kind of a different way than a lot of people grow up. His dad was a member of the board of governors at Wayne State University. Just sits on a bunch of boards, as rich people do. We don't realize that, but rich people. If you're like a rich person who is in business and public service people just put you on boards because it looks good for their company to have a board of people that are famous and you get a salary for that. You don't have to do shit. You have to go once a month. You have to sit at a meeting for an hour, not even pay attention. It's just that your name is on the board of directors and that's all they want. But you get like being rich just like compounds perpetuates being rich.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Eddie Bash's family is so paid, and he was on so many boards in Arizona, he ran a grocery store.

[James Petregallo]

Eddie Basha is a local Arizona businessman who ran a chain of grocery stores and was kind of famous there. No one outside of Arizona has ever heard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, but that's.

[James Petregallo]

I say, yeah, yeah, you had it. Yeah. I was like, we definitely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They even gave a high school jack. There's a high school named after the man Bash's Basha.

[James Petregallo]

That's not cool. You can't name a high school after a chain of grocery stores. In the air.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They did it.

[James Petregallo]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They fucking did it.

[James Petregallo]

You go to Basha's? What? Do you work in the produce section? What are you talking about? Nope. They teach you how to run a register. It's real good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's the silliest shit.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. Now. So, yeah, rich people, their shit gets perpetuated.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's do rich people's shit. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now he's also. They're Lebanese. Lebanese Americans. So anybody who's Lebanese, he's like the most important Lebanese guy in town. So he's in all those groups, and they all worship him. And every Lebanese American social club in the entire area has got a plaque with him up there. The most important guy. Apparently he's described later on as a beloved public servant and a pillar of the Lebanese American community.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

That's how his obituary describes him, by the way. It's still now the Michigan Court of Appeals has his portrait up in the lobby because he was one of the judges still. Well, they go up. They stay Forever. You go to like the one in Arizona. There's people from the 50s up there, their flat tops and shit. So now Bob takes advantage of this. The son, Bob, he's not gonna. As any kid would.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who the fuck wouldn't?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm sure he likes. He's 16, he's speeding, drinking a bottle of booze and no one's fucking with him, you know what I mean? He's a well known judge too. I mean, he's a really well known judge. And so he grew up basically acting like that and telling people. Making sure to tell people who his dad was at the soonest possible interval. Yeah, he'd get right in there. He went to Grosse Pointe South High School there. He went to Albion College. I don't know what that is. I'm not a big college guy, so I don't know. But it's a private liberal arts school southwest of Lansing. And from what everybody says, he's not real good in school. No, he goes and he gets by, but he's not ringing any academic bells for anybody or anything like that. But he's a real outgoing guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's good.

[James Petregallo]

And we'll find out that too. Socially. He gets around. He's a real social kind of a guy and a climber and that kind of a guy. And he's a big guy too. A big guy, six feet tall. Later on he'll be £250. He's a big guy when he's younger. He's not that big though. He's 6ft tall, 190 pounds. When he meets Jane and she falls for him and everything like that. And he's got personality and he comes from a good family and he's fun. He went to college and he's outgoing. So there's really no reason why Jane wouldn't like him. You know what I mean? And he's a handsome guy. I've seen pictures like they balled together and shit like that. They had a fun life together. It looked like they get married about 1986. They're going to have two kids pretty quickly. They have a daughter named Jessica who will end up being a nurse later on. Then they have a son, of course, because, you know, Bob thinks highly of himself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bobby Junior.

[James Petregallo]

Gotta have a Bobby Junior. Gotta have him. If that's a crime. And sports reference. Because athletes tend to name their kid Junior or their name Junior and that will immediately send them into crime, we found. We don't know why. Yeah, so Robert Jr, he'll later go to the university of Michigan. Wolverine's there where he can be mad at Jim Harbaugh for the next century. He's probably friends with him for destroying the program. Now, Jane is a busy one. She's very busy as the family gets going here. I mean, everybody says she runs the house and does everything. When you talk about what her duties, for lack of a better term, are. She's busy, man. This is a lot. She drove the kids to school. She drove the kids to practice. This is, by the way, in addition to having a high powered corporate job.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What does she do?

[James Petregallo]

We'll find out. She's. I don't know. Whatever business people do. Yeah. Who knows? Honestly, if you tell me, like, they do, like, business administration or whatever, I don't even know what that is. I really don't. I'm a comedian. I don't know shit about anything. Like, legitimate, like, business world stuff. We just hire people to make sure that we don't end up in prison. We don't know what we're doing at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But business administration is just like the running of the business.

[James Petregallo]

What does that mean? What do they do? What's their day consist of? I know they run it, but they come in, they sit down, and then what? There's a big desk.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Then they administrate. Jay.

[James Petregallo]

They administrate things and administer things and they tell people. I don't know. That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They pop in and they sit down and what?

[James Petregallo]

That's. Hell, yeah. Like, what's their actual day? I can't think of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want to see you in a corporate environment.

[James Petregallo]

That would be amazing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hi, I'm in here. Now what?

[James Petregallo]

Now what? I'm so impatient with shit, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You label it, then you ship it.

[James Petregallo]

Then what? That's what you do. I'd just be adjusting the nameplate on my desk a whole lot, making sure it was like, okay, there it is. Oh, God, that would drive me crazy. To do anything. That's my nightmare is to be like, in. Even to be like, an executive. It would be a fucking nightmare.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't do anything.

[James Petregallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Even then, that's the answer.

[James Petregallo]

But they have to still go there in the morning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. What they do is they go there, they read the Wall Street Journal and they have somebody bring them coffee all day.

[James Petregallo]

And then there's meetings. I know. I don't know what the meetings do,

[Jimmy Whisman]

but the meetings don't do anything.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. I don't even know what they're doing, but there's meetings all the Time they seem to have to be in this

[Jimmy Whisman]

meeting could have been an email. That's probably 90% of their meetings.

[James Petregallo]

I think so. I think it's just people who need to feel important, probably.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I've seen executives of very powerful companies doing fucking nothing all day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I don't think they do much. There's a lot of people involved. There's a lot of lunches, a lot

[Jimmy Whisman]

of entertaining other company executives. That's it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Lunch seems to be a big point of consumption.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Lunch seems to be real popular.

[James Petregallo]

That seems to be the main thing. And sometimes they don't come back after lunch. So in addition to that, she also organized Jane does, the Grosse Pointe South High School's mother's club and became. She was the president of the school's mother's club after a while.

[Jimmy Whisman]

President of the mothers.

[James Petregallo]

She just goes right there. I don't know what that would consist of either, by the way. I don't know. I don't know what you'd have to do with that. She ran bake sales. She was. Went to church every Sunday at St. Michael's Episcopal Church and also was at a bunch of the church committees during the week. I don't know where she had time for all this shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's just talking. It's a lot of. It's a lot of talking about doing some things.

[James Petregallo]

It's crazy. I don't know how anybody. I couldn't do all this. I don't have time for all this. I don't have time to do normal things. This is insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Those committees too. You just go there and go, what are we doing?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. What are we meeting about? Well, we're gonna organize the bake sale. Well, fucking organize it. Let us know when it is. I don't know. Pick a guy to organize. We need 12 people here to talk about a bake sale. What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can 12 people decide how much a brownie costs?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. What are we doing? Yeah. Oh, we have to parse out who's baking what. Fucking figure it out. Who cares?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sign up.

[James Petregallo]

Who knows? Yes. Put a sheet up. If someone already wrote their name under brownies, you can't make brownies. Move on to Rice Krispie treats.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're the fuck out of this.

[James Petregallo]

Move over to lemon tarts and shut the fuck up. So, yeah, she's running that shit. She's at all these committees, taking her kids to school. President of the mother's club, full time high powered corporate executive job.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bacon raspberry bars. She's busy.

[James Petregallo]

She's busy, man. She's real busy. She also did, like, all the. There was a fundraiser at Grosse Pointe south and she worked the door for three hours to volunteer to do that, to take tickets at the door. She's just a really involved person now. She's also the house breadwinner as well. Oh, yeah, that's the other thing. She's bringing home all the money. He has endeavors as we'll get into, but they're not a solid paycheck type of endeavor. They're more spotty. Yeah. She spent the bulk of her career at a company called Mercury Marine, which is the boat engine engine division of Brunswick Corporation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Are they the people that make the bowling pins and shit?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's probably the comp. That's probably the umbrella. But like mercruiser and.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Out Inboard. Outboard motors. That's impressive.

[James Petregallo]

I was wondering, though, does the Brunswick Corporation umbrella boat manufacturing bowling pins, things like that? Seems like it's a big one. They're headquartered in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, but they have a lot of shit going on in Michigan. And that's where she works here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Harley Davidson only Works is only a company now because of Mercury. Because they were right there on the lake. They had the shipping shit. And the guys that owned the company for Mercury gave them parts to build all the motorcycles.

[James Petregallo]

Mercury out there. That makes sense.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And mercruiser Motors. That's one of the biggest companies in the Midwest up there. It's a big, big, huge company.

[James Petregallo]

Interesting. Well, yeah, she worked there for a while.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's probably making a shit pile of money.

[James Petregallo]

Well, then she moved over, which means to move over. She probably got more money to do that. I would assume she moved over to a company called Kima Services. K A E M A Services.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know it.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if it's an acronym or what, but it's an energy consulting and testing firm with offices in Detroit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's awesome.

[James Petregallo]

That's money. That's a lot of money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Anything you put the word energy in there, it's huge. It's gonna be money.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She was their senior marketing manager. Again, I don't know what that is or what that does. I mean, I assume it has to do with marketing. She might say, okay, campaign ad. I don't know what kind of marketing

[Jimmy Whisman]

implies she's in charge of that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I don't know what kind of marketing you need for a consulting and testing firm. Energy consulting and testing firm. That doesn't seem like it seems like you're marketing to very specific people. Not like putting an ad on the football game.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's so many lunches, James.

[James Petregallo]

So many lunches.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That sounds right.

[James Petregallo]

She's making six figures. She's got stock options. She's got a huge swelling 401k with hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. She has like her insurance has a can't work policy where she'll get all this shit, man, all built in. And that's I think through her company as well. She's somehow working 12 hours a day and doing all the other shit. I don't know how she has time to do that, but that's remarkable.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll tell you what, James. If you are working a day job and it is making you six figures and everything's going great, that alone gives you the energy and excited to go to work the next day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. It probably puts a bounce in your step. Does it though? I'm the type of person that I could, no matter what I'm doing, if my job was to eat ice cream, I'd be so fucking tired of eating ice cream in four days. I'd be like, this sucks. Why do I have to eat all the ice cream? I, I'm terrible like that. I don't like, Yeah, I don't like work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm trash. So I came. I only had one great job in my life. So I worked that job with a big smile on my face. Happy to do it all the time. Because it was.

[James Petregallo]

You never showed up though. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You're gone now. You were the worst employee ever. You didn't. I was so bad at it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But when I was there, did I love it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's true. You had a positive attitude.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess I certainly sidestepped it as much as I could.

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's understandable and natural.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I, I, I guess I've never, I never. Besides comedian, I never really had a job I liked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And when I first got the job, terrible job.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was losing my mind. How lucky I was.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Every, every man in my family told me I made more money than them. I was 22.

[James Petregallo]

Now this we can't get sick of. Cause it was so gradual. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I'll do this every day.

[James Petregallo]

This wasn't a goddamn job for a long time. This was something that we were forcing on the world. So there's a different vibe to it. So while she's doing all this, which sounds like running a family and a business and a marketing division and all this type of shit. Bob has other things that he's doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's he doing?

[James Petregallo]

Bob's endeavors and business endeavors and his public life are interesting. He went into real estate in the 1980. That's what he decided to try to do. That's again, a lot of times what rich people do. Well, I have all this money and I don't really want to work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got my real estate license.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no. He buys real estate. He's not a real estate agent.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

He's buying strip malls and shit like that to turn them over and, you know, trying to do stuff like that. By the early 2000s, he's got a lot of rental properties around the Detroit Grosse Pointe park border area, including a complex along Mack Avenue that we're going to kind of concentrate on here. So at this point, you know, 2000s as they go on, now he's 250 pounds, salt and pepper, and a strip mall owner. Yeah, that changed a lot. It changed all changed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Entirely different.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. But his name helps him in all this type of thing. Let's say he has a zoning beef or something. That helps. He knows people in all these offices. He knows people who are in charge of things and shit like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Starts getting lawsuits about being a slumlord, shit like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you know, slumlord accusations. These are mostly commercial buildings. There are some apartments, I believe, but it's mostly a commercial complex.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But a lot of times when you buy a commercial complex, it's up for sale for a reason.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's rarely because we're tired of making so much money.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, if you were just thriving, just, you know, money heaving out of that place, why would you sell it? You don't have to do anything. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So it needs work or there's nobody over here.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. So, yeah, so here he is now. He's 250, salt and pepper hair, wearing, always wears polo shirts. He's that guy. And one friend of his put it this way that he, quote, drank kind of a lot. We know this guy. You know that guy. He's just a drunk business guy with the red face and the drink in his hand. Kind of a lot. Yeah, kind of a lot. Some of his rental properties made some money. Some of them didn't make any money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So he's not thriving. He's just kind of fucking around because he doesn't have to be the guy who pays the bills because his wife brings home a huge salary. So.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And it does sound like if I told you I had 11 strip malls, James, you'd be like, you gotta make good money, huh?

[James Petregallo]

You must be a bit. Why else would you have bought the next 10 if the first one wasn't working? That's what I would think. I'd be like, wow, you must be killing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Mortgage is just.

[James Petregallo]

It's every month. Yeah, it's weird. So now the one, the Mack Avenue one in Grosse Pointe park, here, it's 15402 Mac is the address of this one building that he has now. He opens on the ground floor of this building. He opens a Vegas themed bar in the Detroit suburbs called the Hard Luck Lounge. Which shouldn't it be the Good Luck Lounge.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean,

[James Petregallo]

naming bars a depressing name is something I don't understand. I don't get why people want to go drink at a bar with a depressing name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You want to go drink at the down and out with me?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Might be a great place, but it's not one I'd go. Ooh, the down and Out. That sounds fun. Let's head over there. Oh, look, the red and bumpy. That sounds great. That sounds perfect.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's definitely contagious. Do you want to go there? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, the itchy and contagious. Let's head over there. That sounds awesome.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Open and Weepy.

[James Petregallo]

It's Open and Weepy, yeah. Ooh, the running Sore sounds good. Let's get in on that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's go get a whiskey.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So it's got like, you know, like gambling decor. There's no gambling actually, because it doesn't have gambling.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It just has like the idea of it. And so the bad luck, is that what it's called?

[James Petregallo]

A hard luck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hard luck.

[James Petregallo]

Hard. It's got the word hard in it, which might make people think there's sex involved somewhere, but I think there's like old slot machines set out, not working or anything. Just whatever, dim lighting, that kind of shit. It's a kind of a neighborhood bar, they said. And the clientele is mostly older guys who've been going there for 20 years. Which you see that that means that bar is going to be dead soon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And if it's not dead soon, it will never have a happening night.

[James Petregallo]

No, because anybody that tries to come in, those 20 fat fucks sitting there will make sure that everyone who comes in there does not feel welcome and

[Jimmy Whisman]

doesn't have a good time.

[James Petregallo]

They will make sure you do not feel welcome and you won't come back. So at the end of the day, it's gonna be these 20 guys. Cause it's their clubhouse and they want. I always feel bad for those bar owners where it's almost like they're taken over by these regulars because they need them, because that's their only regular income. But at the same time they drive away new customers. So what do you do? You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, it's a tough, but sometimes I've been in bars where the bartender literally sits at the end of the bar with three dudes and talks to them the entire. I gotta like fucking snap.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This shit's empty. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hollering for a drink because this person, and they love it.

[James Petregallo]

If that guy's the owner, then he deserves to lose his house. Fuck him, you know what I mean? But if he's some employee, I feel bad for the owner. That just sucks. There's a bar for sale near me recently and it was a reasonable price. Not that I'm in the market for a bar. I just happen to see it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not a bad idea.

[James Petregallo]

The problem is I've seen who's in this bar. I've seen it. I've seen the guys outside smoking. They're 58 year old fucking guys smoking out there looking miserable with 10 other guys who look just like them inside and nobody else. Guess who's not in there? Women. Guess who? Bars make money. One's where women go to. That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Sorry, that's all everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's just the business. It's been like that since the shit started.

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's why they had ladies nights.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, the prohibition ended, that's what it was. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Ladies come and then who follows? Men. That's it. Even in the wrestling business they said that they look and go, well, you gotta get a couple of handsome guys that bring the young girls in. And when the young girls come, then the young boys come and then you got something, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And it perpetuates itself.

[James Petregallo]

Totally. Now, upstairs from the Hard Line Lounge, he's running a restaurant as well. Oh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So it's a multi level place.

[James Petregallo]

Multi level place. And there's levels below and above that we'll talk about. Especially below. Okay. This place is called Dylan's Raw Bar and Grill.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sushi and shit.

[James Petregallo]

Oysters and oyster shooters and a dinner menu and that kind of thing. And then above that there was another floor with a few rooms that he rented out as well. Probably to employees of the restaurants, because that's usually how that works. So he's doing this. That's what he's doing now. Neither of these are huge money making endeavors for him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Those are oftentimes big losers. Because if you don't sell oysters, oysters

[James Petregallo]

go in the trash quickly. Very quickly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's money in the trash.

[James Petregallo]

That's fucking money. So that's what I mean. That's tough. And especially to run a second floor oyster bar. Like, what is that? That's a hard. That's hard to sell. Unless you're in like an urban area where. Unless you're in Manhattan or something. That's difficult.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In the suburbs of Detroit when Detroit has plenty of restaurants.

[James Petregallo]

It's plenty of them. So anyway, that's what was going on. He's also. While he's doing this in the 2000s, he serves on boards of about half a dozen community organizations as well, to show what an upstanding guy he is. And in public, he is real upstanding. He is in the Grosse Pointe Rotary Club, which he becomes the president of. So together. Yeah, I would say so. From the outside, these two just look like a successful power couple.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The Grosse Pointe. He's on the Grosse Pointe Yacht Club's social committee.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is. Yeah. What does that do?

[James Petregallo]

The most useless thing in the world. It's to. Let's plan our gatherings at the yacht Club. Think about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's talk about being on boats.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Let's talk about getting people together so they can clink glasses and talk about being on boats. Like all of that shit could disappear tomorrow and there'd be like four people that would notice it. Nobody would notice it. Also, he goes to the St. Michael's Episcopal Church as well. He is a support member of the Grosse Pointe South Mothers Club as well. He joined that and a series of charity fundraising committees that basically, he's always in the newspaper, in the Grosse Pointe news society pages. As far as whenever there's a charity thing, pictures, there's Bob in the middle of it all. Always. I mean, he's Mr. Grosse Pointe park, essentially.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, people knew him to begin with. He played Santa at the Rotary Club Christmas party.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Doesn't even have to make a bunch of money for this.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's what I mean. He's a business owner and he's well known and so good enough. So, yeah, he's in the full Santa suit, which just means you're the guy with the roundest belly in the office. Usually you're Santa. Sorry. Remember Bobby Bacala and the Sopranos?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's the fat guy.

[James Petregallo]

You're Santa Claus. The boss says, you're Santa Claus. You're Santa Claus. That's it. Put the suit on. Sorry. So. And then he has another story. So you got first floor, Hard Luck Lounge. Second floor, Dylan's, Raw Shooter Bar, whatever the fuck above that. Third story, some rooms for rent. Then there's a basement as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Let's not jump to conclusions. Starting in about 2004, he gets into some weird shit that goes on in this basement.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's he doing down there?

[James Petregallo]

Put it this way. When you hear about what's going on there, you would never eat oysters or shellfish in a building where this was occurring at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great.

[James Petregallo]

Not happening. Nope.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't wait.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. He had discovered bdsm, which, if you don't know, stands for bondage, discipline, dominance and submission. And that whole world of, you know, leathery.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's interesting.

[James Petregallo]

Leathery, creepy people beating the church.

[Jimmy Whisman]

When's the first time you heard about it? And I heard about it when I

[James Petregallo]

was, like, very little. Yeah, I was gonna say very young. Very young.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We had a friend that would come around named Bryce. And I don't know if I should have said his name. It doesn't matter. Not his last name.

[James Petregallo]

Bryce isn't his real name. Anyway, don't worry about him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He was, like, 6 foot 7. He was this huge guy, but he looked.

[James Petregallo]

Narrow it down further. Jimmy. Anything else that I know? Mother's maiden name? Maybe you want to throw out there. Last four of his social, if you got that. Possibly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he was at a party, and somebody. One of my uncles said, that guy likes whips and chains and shit. And he wasn't talking to me. He was just drunk saying it. And then I was like, what? And then he goes, oh, you don't know about that. And then he starts telling me all the things that our friend likes. And it was. I was aghast. And he's like, yeah, a woman walks

[James Petregallo]

around out of a dog collar when you're a kid. You're like. A boob would make your head explode. So you're like, what? They're not satisfied with seeing boobs. What's wrong with these people?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like, a woman walks them around on a dog collar. And I was like, why? Why does he do that?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I remember now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I get it. But, I mean, I don't get it, but I get it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I remember, like, in the 80s, there's a lot of, like, joking about it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, like, I remember that being a thing A lot of joke. Like if you were on a sitcom, there would be a joke about it, you know, there would be some in nine to five.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They Dr. They dressed Dabney Coleman in the show.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Yeah. So it was all that. As we grew up with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So it's all that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's also like a gag that the guy that does that is less of a man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they try to say that, but

[Jimmy Whisman]

this is like he might be Faye, you know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Oh. Cause he wants to be dominated type of thing. Yeah, yeah. No, Bob is the dominator here. He's not the dominatee. Yeah, no, no. Bob isn't the type of usually upper middle class, middle aged, crusty fuck that wants people to beat the shit out of him and call him names. No, no, no, no, no. He's the one in charge.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I can't wait to hear this.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I mean. This isn't just. He wants some chick over to fucking tell him he's a bad boy, step on his ball bag. This is a different story here. So anyway, he gets real into this shit real quick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really swear that the man is doing that.

[James Petregallo]

It's different now. He claimed that he lost interest apparently during his childhood he had some interest in this world. He did what he called, I guess, bondage experiments.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What'd he do?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. As a kid he was doing this, tying people up, doing shit. I don't know what was going on. But then he said he pushed it down for a long time and then sometime in his mid-40s, started getting the. Started dominating the rumbling. Yeah. Started getting the little hungry. So he started. He said that the reason was he hadn't even thought about it in years. Obviously, you know, he forgot. Forgot all about what makes his dick hard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah, that's the closest thing hard.

[James Petregallo]

Nobody forgets anything that's ever made their dick hard. Even once, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not once.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, simply safe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

Absolutely normal, traditional security systems, they lock you into long term, multi year contracts with huge cancellation fees. And that's ridiculous. I'm not doing that. I'm not. Especially when there's an option like Simplisafe, which they don't do any of that. So. Why would you want that? It's amazing. It's 24 7. Professional monitoring our houses, our studios. This is what we Trust it all to, to Simplisafe. It is absolutely safe. It's game changing and no long term contracts. I love, love, love the fact that they can see somebody coming, trying to break into your house or is creeping around and talk to them and yell at them and tell them to get out of here. I love that so much. It's amazing. And you've listened to small town murder. You understand that bad things can happen. And so do we. So do we. You know what I mean? We, we know this for a fact and you know we're responsible for protecting our homes. So we appreciate Simplisafe and we appreciate that we could install it ourselves. It's super easy. And you know, we knew we had to have our homes protected. Episode one of this show, we were like, oh God, we need this. So, I mean, honestly, it really, it fits in. It's easy to set up. It doesn't take all day or anything like that. You expect it to and I do because I don't know what I'm doing. But half hour later, here I am with a security system installed. It's fantastic stuff here. It's fully customizable to fit your exact needs. The sensors, indoor outdoor cameras. It's backed by SimpliSafe's 247 professional monitoring agents who dispatch emergency help when you need it. Over 5 million people value and trust Simplisafe with their home security every day. That includes us right here. So I'm telling you right now, get Simplisafe. We don't put our name behind a whole bunch of things like that, just any old brand. But we trust Simplisafe. Our listeners will get 50% off a new system when you sign up for professional monitoring and your first month is free by visiting simplisafe.com small that's half off at S I M P L I safe.com small there's no safe like C Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show emoji moment

[James Petregallo]

from Sadie who writes, I'm not crying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're crying.

[James Petregallo]

This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and

[Jimmy Whisman]

stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie.

[James Petregallo]

I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Sadie is a Mochi member, compensated for her story Wave to Earth the Pieces tour live across North America. Get tickets [e-mail]. i remember people from women from sitcoms in the 80s that when I was like nine years old, that I was like, whoa. I still remember that moment of going, going, yeah, look at that. So you remember everything that gets your dick hard?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's lying there. But he said in his mid-40s, when he's on the Internet, he saw pop up ads for kinky dating websites.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where the hell did you get that? In your algorithm.

[James Petregallo]

He was gonna say, where are these pop up ads? He's on ESPN.com doing his fantasy football league and these just pop up? I don't think so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Those are targeted, sir. And you get them because of your

[James Petregallo]

searches, what you're doing. So, yeah. So he decided he was going to go on a site, collarme.com. yeah, that's a site, by the way. I don't know if it is now, but it wasn't 2004. It's probably huge now. Jesus Christ. You kidding me? They probably sold IPO last year to that shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. That does not sound like it's not lucrative.

[James Petregallo]

It's got going away. I don't know if it's. Yeah, who knows if it's lucrative, but it's definitely popular, put it that way. Oh, for sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's like that tentacle one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I forget the name of that one, but if I ever heard it, I bet. Yep, that's the one.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, that's that. So he put an ad up, apparently, and he basically said that he was skilled in this lovely life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, so Color Me is like Craigslist for bdsm.

[James Petregallo]

People hook up that way, apparently. Or at least they did then. So he's telling people that. Meanwhile, he's also saying that he didn't get into this again till his 40s. So he's either lying, saying that he wasn't into it for 30 years and then just rekindled it, or he's lying to the people on the website, saying he's skilled and knows what he's doing, one or the other. But his ad goes on to say, quote, I will open, train and guide you in this lifestyle. Oh, boy. Kneel and have all your desires and cravings open to you. Are you ready for Master Bob?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He'll just be master bobbing in the corner. Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Open you.

[James Petregallo]

Open you. So that's his ad. And there's more in there, I'm sure, but that's. Yeah. So he's looking for women that are willing to submit to whatever the fuck he's going on. Yeah. He said, also, quote, oh, and I trained several, so being tied to another is a wonderful thing. So he's not looking for one. He's looking for a bunch of women that are also all willing to be doing this at the same time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

Not just women that are cool with him going around other women, but women who want to all be in the same room when he's beating all of them up or doing whatever the fuck he's doing, tying them up. He corresponded with a few women who answered his ad. Then he arranged to meet a specific woman here, and they arrange to have. This is the weirdest thing. They're hooking up to talk about whether they want to do weird BDSM shit together. So they arrange to have lunch to talk about it, where they go to the Red Robin, which is the weirdest place to talk about this. They do have unlimited fries, so you can talk about it for a long time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's talk about me burning your twat under a nice basket of bottomless fries.

[James Petregallo]

So I'm gonna tie you up and I'm gonna do that. Yes, actually, I'll have. Yeah, no more fries for me, thank you. So, anyway, back to what we were doing. That's insane. This is in Southgate, which is 20 miles south of Detroit. They said, quote, this is from a book that I'll give the plug to later on because there's a couple of them. The woman he met said he was looking for someone to be his submissive. I needed food and shoes for my children.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

So she wasn't even into this. She was just looking for a way to make money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I hate that so much.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That is disturbing. That a woman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I needed the basics of life. And he wants to dance. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

For my children. So I'm gonna completely debase myself and do something I don't even want to do. If she wanted to do it, great, but she doesn't want to. She just wants to feed her kids. That's tough. He dove into it, though. He went to events, these big swinger events. There's. This is a whole, like, underground thing that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a whole life, James.

[James Petregallo]

It's huge. And I don't know a fucking thing about it. I just don't. I don't know what it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm glad that I'm out of that.

[James Petregallo]

Were you in it for 20 years? I said, I'm out of that. Like, I'm glad I got out of that finally.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm glad I never.

[James Petregallo]

The Guy who was in the mafia doing an interview. I'm glad I'm out of that. I'll tell you what. For a long time, it was tough.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was tough to get out of that. Of.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Needed a sponsor. No, there's. There's like swinger clubs and in Phoenix that I've been to a hundred times in my early 20s. It's just weird. It's just.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm not into weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm not into. It's. It's just so uncomfortable.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Call me. Call me crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Call me. Call me boring.

[James Petregallo]

Call me boring. Call me crazy. But something about a. A naked chick. Really? I don't need anything else. It's just. I'm pretty excited about that. You know what I mean? That's always been enough to get. I never was like, I'm bored with this. Never.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can we bring another one in here?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, no, I don't care.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do you know how long it took for me to be able to show this to you?

[James Petregallo]

I don't even need new boobs either.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't see the same ones everybody else.

[James Petregallo]

I'm excited about them every time. I don't get it. I guess we're lame, Jimmy. That's all it is. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know, man.

[James Petregallo]

So he gets right into this. He went to play parties in Ann Arbor. He went to swingers nights at private homes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Which is crazy. He went to a site called alt.com, it's like spelled out, I guess, which is a BDSM site. It's basically, you remember Adult Friend finder?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That still exists. I get fucking pop ups for that.

[James Petregallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I never searched that ever.

[James Petregallo]

Really. I knew a guy who was doing this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was starting to be on Bob's side.

[James Petregallo]

He might have just had a pop up. I was filming this guy for this potential documentary and his whole thing was he was looking for a chick. And so he had looked everywhere. It was like him going to bars and him doing all this stuff. And eventually he's online and he goes to like. He went from just trying to meet a nice girl at nice places to bars to this to that, to. To actually eat Harmony long term. Went from there all the way down to just went on adultfriendfinder.com made a profile, and his thing was, I'll eat that ass. He went from. He went all the way from, I'm just trying to find a nice matrimony in like six months to I'll eat that ass. I don't care. Just Somebody fuck me. It was really, really something to watch.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He went from dearly beloved to just bend over, I'll lick it.

[James Petregallo]

Lick it, Lick your ass. I don't care.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't care.

[James Petregallo]

Please nobody isolate that. And I still have a box of like 30 tapes of this shit too. So anyway, he made a profile on there and made his profile name Master Bob.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. He's walking around. Picture a 250 pound salt and pepper polo shirt wearing guy walking around in a leather vest because that's what he liked to do in these parties.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He wants to spank your pussy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Oh God. At one point, on the way to a meeting with somebody, a tryst here, he bought a whip and some rope at a farm store.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean,

[James Petregallo]

that is not the same equipment that you're getting that you get at a sex shop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I think the sex shop, it's like a lower quality so it won't like injure, you know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Or like a higher quality. Like the rope would be like softer, I would think, or smooth. Wouldn't be like, you know, harsh. Rope from a farm store. Tie a fence closed with or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was thinking more along the lines of the whip. Like the whip.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Would also you'd want like softer leather rather than something you beat. A. What, what do you, what a. For a horse or something?

[James Petregallo]

A bull. I have no idea what he's a whip for anymore. Who knows? But he did. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What, what, what would you do that.

[James Petregallo]

But after a while he's got all the, he's got all the vocabulary down and he's into it. Which we've, we've also seen. Listeners of ours back in the day were into this and I was uncomfortable around it just because she was a younger girl and the dude she was with was 30 years older than her and big guy. I was creeped out by the whole thing, man. I really was. I'm like, dude, somebody did something bad to this young lady at some point in her childhood and she's living this weird shit out with this guy because this is not a mutually beneficial thing. He was having people coming over, running trains on her and shit. It was wild.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they were selling the.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, no, it was crazy. It was fucking crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just know it may have been him that did some bad shit to her childhood. He was old enough.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. He might have come back around. Yeah, I mean, we knew a lot of our listeners that were like ladies that like knew her from groups and were trying to like help her and stuff and what the Hell are we gonna say to her? We didn't know what was going on, so we just let the ladies take care of it. They said, we're gonna try to help her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And I don't even know if she's still around.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. I don't know what's going on. So if she is. Hi. I hope your collar still fits.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hope your tail's okay.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, the tail. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah, that's a splash back there. So now in the basement of the place, the Hard Luck Lounge, the Oyster Bar shooters. This is his dungeon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

In the basement. It's a windowless room that the whole everybody in the scene came to know as Bob's dungeon. Basic inventory. Hooks on the walls. Sure as one has chains, chains. Leather harnesses hanging on pegs. A flogging cross.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

A wooden X shaped piece of whatever wood that you strap somebody to and beat them. Apparently a padded chair that a witness called Bob's leather chair, which was his throne. He would sit in this and tell people what to do. And this was like his dominance spot was this leather throne sits and orders

[Jimmy Whisman]

people to do things.

[James Petregallo]

And then there's also, like tables, a bed, and a tv, because sometimes you get bored.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's got to be somewhere to set the pizza and there's got to be somewhere to fuck.

[James Petregallo]

And I'm sure like a microwave with a little freezer with some Hot Pockets or something in there. There's got to be something that we're not hearing about. You never know. So according to some people here, he also had a giant spider web like structure made of rope designed for suspension play and restraint scenes. Yeah, that's creepy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it hanging from the ceiling or is it on the wall?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know where it's hanging from, but it's in there somewhere. Another woman later called it a cramped area, partitioned off from the rest of the basement with cheap walls. It was dimly lit and all the equipment was crowded together. So this was not when we were picturing this. We're picturing like a big room and a thing. This is a tiny room in a fucking basement in Michigan that he is cordoned off with a shit wall and hung hooks from and tell women what to do with while he sits in a leather throne and master bonds. This is crazy. This is not normal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Bob, you've created a whole world. What's he missing? What's he missing that he has to do this?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's a very Good question. Like I said, this has to be. Something happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Is this a guy that feels inferior and has to. You know what I mean? I don't know if there's something psychological to this whole thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. And it could be different for different people. But I don't know if it's. He feels inferior or he feels superior. So he must be. His.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He is inferior, but he feels like he deserves to be superior. So the only way to do that is to go down into this basement and put a leather cup.

[James Petregallo]

He just might think of everybody else as objects that he doesn't give a fuck about. Because he's. Think about rich kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know, rich kids. They'd have, like, something that you want really bad, and they just, like, leave it in the gutter because they didn't care about it because they had more like. That might be also what he's. These people are, like, disposable to him because he's important and they're not in his mind. Maybe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

I would think the inferiority would be the guys who like to get beat, not the guys who like to do the beating.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think it's the opposite. I think it's. Psychologically, when you feel like you're better, you can let somebody beat on you because you're like. You could never do this anywhere else in life.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know that guy. Maybe it can go either way. I'm not sure. So people. By the way, the Hard Luck lounge. Everyone's. The 20 drunk guys sitting up. They had no idea what was going on down there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Of course not.

[James Petregallo]

Nobody who worked there. None of the waitresses and the cooks. All those people. They didn't know what was in the basement. They had no idea.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't even hint to them that they could be a part of this life if they wanted to.

[James Petregallo]

And maybe if he found them hot. Otherwise. No. So that he'd have gatherings. He'd hold these big gatherings down in the basement. Big gatherings where he's. Master Bob. Sometimes it would just be two or three couples at a time down there doing swinging and beating. Other times it was him with multiple partners. Multiple people said there was cocaine used at these events. Which. Which. No one's doing this shit sober. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I hope there's not some sort of substance. What the fuck are we doing here?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what we're doing. But he was the host. He was the dominant one here. And everybody called him Master Bob. So it didn't start out that crazy, actually, when it first started here. The woman that he first hooked up with, who he met at the Red Robin there, said that. But she was already into the whole Detroit scene by the time she met Bob. And she said basically his basement when she first saw it, there was some S and M toys and things in there. His interest in S and M was great, but his product was pretty small at the time. That sounds good. Hey, baby, look at my product. How you doing? I never heard it called that before, have you? So she said, so it was limited. I kept everything he had in covers and put away. Yeah, I kept everything he had in covers and put away. There was a chair and a bed. He attempted to make some kind of ridiculous cross type thing on the wall that was built incorrectly for his usage, for its usage. And there was some toys, which later on he figured it out. But at first he tried to be like, from newbie to I know everything, I built a thing and all that. Now, apparently in this world, The main thing that gets said over and over, the main mantra here seems to be safe, sane and consensual is what keeps coming up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, the first word is the most important part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing. Once it gets out of control, then it's not something different now. So according to this woman, Bob repeatedly ignored that. That he didn't give a fuck. This is for him. This is not for everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Looks safe and sane. Yeah, I'm trying to come.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Safe, sane, consensual. He's not into that. She said generally when I would get together with Bob, it would be a little spanking. And with his inability and his impotence, a little head.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

So she'd give him a little head, there'd be some spanking and he can't get it up. That's the other thing we'll get into. He's got to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe he was giving her head because he can't get it up.

[James Petregallo]

That's possible. He's got some dick problems. I doubt it, though. I think he doesn't do a lot of giving. He's not a real giver. He's a taker. She said there were a few occasions where it got a little crazier. And when we were playing, he choked me. I have kind of a bony neck and I would get very dizzy and unconscious. Jesus. I didn't particularly like it. And when I would mention being uncomfortable, he would back off. That wouldn't happen for months until I'd be a little more Comfortable. And then, surprise, it might happen again. Even though he knows she doesn't like. Was not something we talked about. It was not something I asked for. For me. I wasn't completely out for a length of time. I was on that very line. Thin line between being out and unconscious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She felt the tingles. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. So, I mean, people started to find out about this new dungeon that opened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I mean? He's got everything. After a while here, he's got more goddamn people down there than he's got in the Hard Luck Lounge. He's like, if I could just sell these people drinks, this would be a viable business.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Charge a cover.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. So he would do that. And the neighbors would be like, why are all these people going in this basement? What the hell's going on? It's got like a side entrance thing. It's weird. One neighbor who lives across the alley from this place said I'd see people dressed in black outfits coming and going until 3, 4 in the morning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of people in the fucking Matrix.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of Matrix people with rock hard cocks. That's the only difference. She said it was real weird. She said basically the people that went to these parties would go down a steep concrete stairwell into the basement area. There. That was that. She said this neighbor, she didn't know what was going on across the alley with this shit. She said, I heard they were having S and M parties. And that made sense to me. I try to mind my own business. I love this lady now. I mean, I looked over there, but I said, none of my fucking business.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Some things you can't agree. When everybody's in leather, you go, what, is there S and M parties or something?

[James Petregallo]

And then you have a choice to make. Do you try to do something or you go and go about your day. And that's what everyone should do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I definitely observed that all of these people are wearing black leather and going

[James Petregallo]

into a basement together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The fuck is that about?

[James Petregallo]

Strange. So she said, I try to mind my own business. And they didn't really cause any trouble. But I just didn't like so many people hanging around in the alley at all hours of the night. This is probably loud, too. Let's talk about Rachel Gillett here, double L, double T. Gillet. Rachel Renee Gillett. 2008, August of 2008, Bob meets Rachel online. Okay? She's a divorced single mother. She works at Wayne State University. Where he sits on the board, by the way she worked. But that's not how they met. They met online, which is interesting. She worked in alumni affairs over there. Respectable single mother doing fine. She's about 10 years younger than Bob as well. She got onto alt.com because she said she wanted to explore that side of herself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, see, she likes it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm sure something gave her a tingle. And then she said, you know what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, you can't know.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe I'm into that. I don't know. And this is before like 50 shades of gray blew up and all that shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What year is this?

[James Petregallo]

2008 is when she found them. This was going on in 2004. So by six, seven years from now, every vanilla, basic ass fucking 45 year old woman in the world is asking to get shit done to them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's going to be a line down the block for Master Bob's.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not now, though. So he's ahead of the curve, really. If this was a business, he. He's this close to it popping.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's almost axe throwing time too. Like, he could make so much money here.

[James Petregallo]

So much. Oh, BDSM and axe throwing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's BDSM downstairs, axe throwing upstairs.

[James Petregallo]

The guys, after you come, they give you an axe and you go, go

[Jimmy Whisman]

on up and throw that thing.

[James Petregallo]

Area of business. So she said she was trying to explore her profile. Said that she was a, quote, submissive woman looking for a dominant single man. Oh, she wants to be dominated. So that's how it went. So they ended up hooking up like that. And they send emails and correspondence and end up hooking up. And he becomes, you know, into her. Shit, she's into him at one point. Here's an email. This is from Bob to Rachel. You are collared to me, which means I own you, essentially. Soon you will feel my strength and passion. That's just a funny line. Soon you will feel my strength and passion.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a husband and a father writing that sentence.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, and a Rotary Club president.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the Rotary Club president.

[James Petregallo]

Think about that. Everybody that's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, it's the yacht club guy, but everybody knows that.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, the yacht club guy. We know they're into freaky shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I love you and I do not want to lose you ever. We are perfect for each other. Master Bob is how he signs it. So on the site they met, he represented himself not as a married man doing some weird shit on the side, but as a widower. What he's been telling people since 2004. He's a widower.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Which is interesting. So Rachel is in a relationship with him now. I mean, dives into this headfirst. And really interesting too. She said that first it was I'm a widower. That was the problem. That was what he said. Then she googled him and did some background checking and found out didn't find any divorces on his record or a dead lady or anything like that. So she said, what up with that? And he said, well, I'm actually separated, but it's just easier to say she's dead. Okay. Then it was, we're basically divorced. And then from there it went to we're finalizing the divorce. Like he was taking her through the steps from we're separated to it's just about over. We're almost there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So today, if you filed taxes. What do you mean?

[James Petregallo]

Carrot on a stick? Yeah, that's it. Hey, what's your Facebook say? Yeah, what's on there? Dead wife.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not what's the IRS think you are.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's all we need to know. Hey, how many dependents you claim on your taxes? What number do you pick? Just let me know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

So then finally, in May of 2011, as we'll talk about, he tells her the divorce went through May of 2011. I'm a free man, divorced. None of this is true, right? Jane has no idea that he's a

[Jimmy Whisman]

widower or a widower or separated, almost divorced or separated.

[James Petregallo]

He goes home, hey, honey, kiss on the cheek and all that shit. I mean, it's crazy. So during the marriage, at this point here, because I want to talk more about Jane, here he is very much with Jane. They live together, they have dinner at night together, they go on trips together. He's present, they're at Rotary Club events together. I saw pictures of them bowling to get. Standing there holding their bowling balls together. They look like a very happy, connected and active couple.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a supporter of the Moms club.

[James Petregallo]

A supporter of the Mom's club. It looks amazing. Now no divorce has ever been filed, no lawyer's been hired, nothing like that shit. So Rachel ends up breaking up with Bob multiple times across this three year period. A lot of times because he's a liar.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Three years?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah, Sometimes she broke up with him because of the intensity of their sexual encounters. She said later that she didn't enjoy the pain of flogging as most don't, and that she want some people like it. Yeah, that she wanted to leave kind of the heavy end of the scene. She wasn't really into that. Maybe, hey, tie me up or something. Tie my fucking wrist to the ad board or something. But in a traditional relationship that they maybe get freaky after a couple glasses of wine, but nothing crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get the fuzzy handcuffs.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, don't beat the shit out of me, please. Get the fuzzy ones that don't close all the way. Just get fuzzy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That don't hurt. That don't need a key. I can get out just by clipping it like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's one of those. So every time she would break up with him, he would just full court press back at her to try to get her back. The way she put it and the way it works out is apologies, promises, declarations of love. You know, the asshole guy thing. Oh, it's gonna be all better now. Yeah. We'll find a house, we'll move in together so we'll have a normal relationship. I can be that for you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's making those promises.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. He said, I'm everything you need, I'm everything you want. I'm the guy you should. And she would come back every time. So Rachel's probably had a couple of things going on in her background too, that make her open for this. That's one of those you'd like to go, hey, where's your dad? I'd like to go fuck. I'd like to kick this fucking nutsack through the top of his roof of his mouth right now. Because I'm sure something he did is causing this. You know what I mean? I don't know what it was, if he touched you or if he fucking left or did some weird shit, but who the fuck out of you? Who did this to you and who did this to you and why was it your dad? Talk to me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who did this? And why didn't CPS keep you away from your father?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, exactly. There's all sorts of emails to her where he addresses her as my lovely slave and master Bob and all that shit. At one point he said, I love you and I don't want to lose you ever. We're perfect for each other. All that crap in 2009. This is what he's saying on the surface. Then all this stuff's going on. In 2009, Bob wanted to have a third woman in here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

This isn't enough for him. He's greedy. This isn't enough for him. Okay, so he blindfolded Rachel and another woman and put them in his van. Hey, ladies. Here's just a tip from a guy and from really anybody. If there's a man who blindfolds you and another woman and tries to put you in a van, just run away. The van is the one that. That's the deal breaker there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. There's been, like, so many guys that did it, and every one of them was bad.

[James Petregallo]

It's always a van and it's always bad. Yep. So he drives them, removes the blindfold. They didn't know where they were going to be. When he removes the blindfold, they're at his house in Grosse Pointe Park. The family house. Why he's bringing this home with him. And what? And she said they all had a tryst in their bed. In Jane and fucking Bob's bed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

And then Bob and the third woman slept in the bed, while Rachel, because of her lowly status, slept on the floor. This shit never ends. That's what I mean. This isn't like when we get in the bedroom, you do this and you do that. But then when we're out there, we make decisions together. This is like a total dominance lifestyle that I don't get. It'd be one thing if it was just sexual. That's what you're both into. And once the door closes, you know, whatever. But like that. Like our old listener, like that. It wasn't about that. It was about the entire. Your whole life is controlled. It's crazy. So. And that was. I mean, that was her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But as soon as the night's over, I mean, when we go to bed, we're just people.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pull that right out of your ass and snuggle in here.

[James Petregallo]

No, you're on the floor, slave. Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put this tail up there and lay on the floor.

[James Petregallo]

Creepy dog sleep. Hold on. More guys will be over to bang you soon. Like, what? No, now. Marriage is starting to cramp his style a bit, as you might imagine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't imagine why you would like that at all.

[James Petregallo]

So there's another guy here named Sir Patrick. That is his scene name. His real name is Patrick Webb with two B's. Now, there is a town called Milan. Very creative. And there's a piece of property there owned by Patrick. Sir Patrick Webb. Here, Sir Patrick's got the property. Sir Patrick owns this and he is a bdsm. He's a scene guy, too. Bob knows him. So the property's about 11 and a half acres in a rural area. So where. Nobody's bothering you. Now, this Sir Patrick had been hosting big swingers parties and BDSM events out at various locations around the area. But by about 2010, he built a dedicated party space on his property.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

He called it the A2 reformatory.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The what?

[James Petregallo]

A2 Ann Arbor. A2A's reformatory. A2 reformatory, you know? Cause there's punishment being dealt out in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gotta teach.

[James Petregallo]

They had scheduled parties, events where dozens of people would show up, tons of people. And there was a dungeon, and there's scenes going on all over the place, booze and everything like that. The only rule here, really, was discretion.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, just shut up.

[James Petregallo]

Because a lot of these people are professional people and things like. Yeah. He said at one point, Webb said, nobody wants to. Nobody wants to know what goes on behind closed doors, which is backwards. They want to know, but you don't want to tell them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

You want to know what goes on behind closed doors, but people don't want people to know what goes on behind closed doors. Yeah. Now, he, by the way, estimated that around this time, he said, around Ann Arbor. This has to be a wild miscalculation. He calculates that around the entire Ann Arbor area, there has to be around 70,000 people into the BDSM lifestyle. Ann Arbor in the Ann Arbor area.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the college area. Right.

[James Petregallo]

Seems like a lot of people to be into that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I hope there's not, because there's college kids there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. What do you think the out of ten is? What's the percentage of people less than one who are into this? Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Less than one.

[James Petregallo]

I was going to say it's 1%, tops. I would say. Yeah. One in a hundred people are into this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Right. Yeah. So I don't know how there's seven. That would mean there was, you know, 7 million people in Ann Arbor, which seems high.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I would say there's less than 1% that are into the extreme shit, but I'll bet it's probably three. Three and ten are into some kinkier shit. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then it's a spanking. Or once in a while, this or that or. I mean, half the goddamn. Some women want to be choked for some fucking reason. So there's that whole thing that we've talked about before. Hey, see these? I ain't choking you. I'm going to prison. If anything goes wrong, you're going to look at my hands and your neck, and I'm going to fucking prison. Jimmy can go. I don't even have 10 fingers. She could have got away from me. I can't do that. I can't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Grab your larynx.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I'm not joking you. That is some Shit. We got to find that out right up front. You don't like to be choked, do you? Because if you do, I ain't the guy for you. I'm not doing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It.

[James Petregallo]

I will not murder you by accident. Not happening.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It'll be adorable to watch me try.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's funny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Teeny tiny. I literally wear a small glove.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, my God. I wear double sometimes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sometimes I wear a ladies glove, James, because they fit nicer.

[James Petregallo]

Whoa. I have the latex gloves for cooking, like the black ones that you get. And the extra larges are small on me. They're like here on my fingers. It doesn't work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I get the smalls for them to not fall off. If I get the mediums, they'll fall off everybody.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy's a safe joke is what he's trying to say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't choke him.

[James Petregallo]

He just. He puts his forearm in the. He's like, come on, you gotta get behind you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Put you in the rear naked if you want a really good choke.

[James Petregallo]

He puts you in the million dollar dream there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Got a camel clutch these bitches, James.

[James Petregallo]

That's the only way you can do it. Everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What do you want from me?

[James Petregallo]

What do you want? What do you want? Figure 4 Leg lock. It's happening. So anyway, this is what he says. We don't know obviously what that is, but there is a lot of professional people in this scene. Doctors, lawyers, engineers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll bet the percentage goes up when you get into that

[James Petregallo]

for some reason. Yes, because you have time to get into that. Normal people are busy. They don't have. If you make 36 grand a year, you don't have time to be into freaky sex. You just don't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're just happy you're getting a blowjob.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You probably have three kids that are taking a lot of your time. You don't have money for babysitters. A blowjob is great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You make 5 million. Or north. Normal sex is probably boring.

[James Petregallo]

I guess so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're probably like, I've made a bunch of money. I can probably afford to do something different.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I swear that's how Epstein started.

[James Petregallo]

I really hope I don't get to the point where I'm not. Where I'm like, nah, that's. Boobs are boring. Or, you know, chick's ass is boring.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know. I go to strip clubs still. It's the greatest thing. They're amazing tits. I mean, not the.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the tits are great. The tits are great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not fucking great.

[James Petregallo]

The tits are. Yeah, well, I mean, tits are fantastic. But. But think about a lot of those chicks, why they're up there and you're

[Jimmy Whisman]

like, oh, I'm not thinking about that at all. I'm thinking about giving her some money and having a Corona.

[James Petregallo]

It makes me sad. I can't. Not even sad. I'm just like. Because I mean, some people like it or whatever, but a lot of times it's something bad happened to them and that's why they're doing it. Probably.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not all the time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Look, man, something bad happened to me. That's why I'm here.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. That's why we're all here. That's why we're here. That's. Yeah, so I don't know. I guess if you listen to us, it's. You're. You're contributing to our fucking shit too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

NMLS 696891 so now Pat meets Bob. Yeah, well, you know, Sir Patrick there meets Bob at a sex party in a Milan fraternity house. Oh, imagine you're at a frat party and the 50 year old guy comes in with a leather vest on and takes his dick out. The party's over. Yeah, party's over. At that point it's done.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We already went through this during rush week.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, who invited someone's dad to haze us? What's going on? He brought the paddles and everything. This can't be right. So anyway, Pat and Bob know each other. They attended a bunch of parties. Bob attended a bunch of parties at the A2 reformatory with slave Rachel always in tow. Sometimes with another submissive, sometimes alone. Now, Sir Patrick visited Bob's dungeon and described it as a dingy room with hooks, whips and harnesses. Like three different people use the word dingy. I think it's dingy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't think it's very clean down there. I think it's just what he's got.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. Now, at one point. This is amazing. Bob at one point made an offer to Patrick Webb. He said that Bob said, I will bankroll the construction or expansion of the A2 reformatory. I like this, and I want to be a part of it. He said, I'll put up the money, you build out the dungeon, and the two of us will be partners on it. Oh, then Bob never came through with the money. Reneged on the money. So this guy had been planning shit and buying stuff, and Bob's saying, oh, yeah, I got you covered. And then he just goes, I don't have the money, so. Or I'm not doing it. So now, this made Patrick Webb really pissed off. Yeah, he's like, I've been buying shit, getting ready. Thought we were partners here. So this led to an argument inside the dungeon. So down in the sex dungeon, an argument between Bob and Patrick where they nearly came to blows. Imagine these two dipshits wearing bondage gear with their dick sticking out, just swinging on each other. That's comedy, dude. That is the definition of comedy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Leather briefs and hairy thighs. Yelling at each other.

[James Petregallo]

Yelling, and I'll fucking kick your ass. I'll kick your ass, nut sack. Swinging one nut way lower than the other.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is terrible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just out.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is awful, man. Patrick described Bob as always portraying himself as wealthy, but somehow, when it came time to write the check, check, the money's not there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No money.

[James Petregallo]

That's the guy. 2009, around this time, Patrick here said that Bob said he felt trapped in his marriage and he wanted to do more in the BDSM community, but his wife was in the way. If it wasn't for that pesky wife who's got other shit going on. So he told Patrick Webb at his own dungeon. And this was apparently where Patrick said everybody was blowing off some steam. Oh, everybody down there was talking about either their current marriage or when they were divorced and basically joking around about divorce and how miserable it is and how your ex is shitty. Just a bitch session, basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's fascinating, though, because does his wife even know he's into this?

[James Petregallo]

Fuck no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Exactly.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, I don't know what he

[Jimmy Whisman]

does in this, but, you know, my wife. Yeah. She doesn't know, man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And most of these people, spouses, don't know unless they're there with them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

So, I mean, he might in bed, want her to, you know, they might have a couple, you know, toys or whatever the fuck. I don't know. But I'm saying that might. They might have some light shit going on in bed, but Jane isn't letting him tie her up and beat the shit out of her, and she's certainly not gonna let him go out and do it. To other girls that's not other women. These young girls, that's not gonna happen. So. So I don't know. At one point during this, Bob told Patrick, sometimes I think it'd be cheaper to just kill the bitch. The bitch, the bitch and kill in the same word. He also said those same words to Rachel over and over again. Remember Rachel? That he was about to divorce his wife and that they were me and you. Meaning Bob and Rachel are going to buy a house and move in together. And they got this bitch in here I got to deal with. Blah, blah, blah. This bitch.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a fascinating choice of words.

[James Petregallo]

That's wild shit. She's done nothing to him, by the way,

[Jimmy Whisman]

to be considered the bitch.

[James Petregallo]

No. If she had her own BDSM dungeon, that then he could say, what a bitch. She's cheating on me. She's done nothing. All she's doing is going to fucking mother's club meetings, working her ass off. Then there's a second woman named Janet Lehman who we'll talk about that he wanted. Basically he wants to buy a house with Rachel and also move Janet into the house as a third. Sure, normal. He told a financial advisor that he wanted to talk about investments related to Pat Webb's Milan Property and the A2 reformatory dungeon expansion project. He also told various acquaintances that he was looking, this was in late 2012, that he had a tenant who was making his life miserable, a female tenant. So he was looking for someone who would rough up, run over, or quote, t bone a female tenant who was making his life miserable. Send a message that's interesting. Now, Bob, we'll find out who that tenant was in a little while. So Bob is telling all these people, we're talking almost like 10 people and all these people that he's miserable, married, and if only cheaper to kill the bitch and all that. Now in this mix he has an Igor, or an Igor if you're a young Frankenstein fan. Now his Igor, his. It's not Pat Hunchbacked lab assistant. No, no, no. Pat's a successful guy with his own property in his own dungeon. Oh boy, he needs a lackey is what he needs. Bob and these guys always find lackeys. They always find some, some guy who, even if Bob was in the gutter, this guy would be in the street looking up at him with wide eyed admiration like, oh my God, look at you, all the way up there in the gutter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The guy that success for him is never gonna happen, but he can dream every day and follow Bob around and

[James Petregallo]

hope that One day and do what he tells him to and hopefully it'll wash off to him at some point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Trickle down. Come call that guy the host.

[James Petregallo]

The Host? Yes. They call him the road feature that the guy the headliner uses for 10 years because he's easy to follow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

One day. One day.

[James Petregallo]

One day. So his Igor is Joseph Gentz. Is it Gentz or Gents? I'm not sure. It's G, E, N, T, Z. Oh, so probably Gentz I would say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll bet he is.

[James Petregallo]

So Joe Gentz is 48 years old in 2012. He's Bob's handyman on the property and his IQ is 67, which is lower. That makes Forrest Gump look like an Einstein. Like that's not good. He lives in one of the rental properties a few blocks from the bar as well. He lived there for a while. Then there's other things we'll talk about here. Now there's a book about this case. There's multiple books, but one of them is written by a guy named Steve Miller who I assume isn't the Joker. Toker, Midnight Smoker. I doubt it, but it's possible. This guy had corresponded later with Joe Gentz and he said that Gentz did not come across as disabled in any way. He sounded like a slow but functional adult. He said that was surprising. But he said the extent of Gentz's impairment doesn't come off right away until you really slowed down to talk to him and then you'd see how kind of he wasn't Right. He's slow on top of having some cognitive disabilities, obviously. He's also diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which is. That's tough if you're smart, dumb or anywhere in the middle. That's a hard thing to deal with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he's slow and he has some decision making skills.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, and has some swings and some problems. I mean that's like I said, if you can intellectualize and know what's going on with that, it helps. And it's still hard to deal with. But imagine if you're too dumb to even understand what's happening. That's a lot. People that knew him said that he had the social and reasoning capacity of a third grader. That's not good. He also has a young daughter because why not?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somebody fucked him.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody fuckin gentlemen. If I hear one fucking guy, one more guy say he can't find a woman when this guy is impregnating people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This guy's got kids.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sorry. You guys have got to try harder. Everybody the world does not owe you pussy. Remember that and try harder. Get to work, get a new shirt. Fucking get a new cologne job, whatever it is, you can do it. If this guy did it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

LinkedIn, you moron.

[James Petregallo]

This is not a. We're not. This isn't a kick in the dick. This is like a rally speech. Yeah, yeah. We're giving you a pep talk right here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rah rah, motherfucker.

[James Petregallo]

You can do it. So he has no significant criminal history or no record of any violence or anything like that. Just a lot of low end jobs and shitty apartments. That's it. By 2011, he needed work. He had nowhere to live. He encountered Bob. Bob had a rental property, took him on as a handyman. He even helped get Gentz into an apartment. Not one of Bob's apartments, but another building. He knew a guy, a landlord that he knew that was in the BDSM network. He hooked. Gent's up with him now. So he has a lot of ins. He's got the whole legitimate world that he's got from his father and then he's got this whole underground world of people that he knows. So he's got a lot going on. This landlord. Rebecca Forten would later say that the dynamic between Bob and Gentz was very clear. Bob's in charge, he's in control. Gentz does what he's told. That's it. So the second half of 2011, Bob and Rachel start house hunting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really? He's gonna do it or he's at

[James Petregallo]

least gonna pretend he's gonna do it. One of the fucking two.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here's his financial advisor, said he can do it. It.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, he kept. He's telling Rachel that he's a. The divorce is coming through any minute.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Any day now.

[James Petregallo]

Any day. This is months after he told her in May. It's done. Actually, now it's still not done.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Has he ever been divorced in his life? Because it doesn't sound like he is aware of how that works.

[James Petregallo]

Not at all. No, he just keeps telling her it's a date when it's done, that's it. But he's telling her, almost there. This close. So they start looking at houses together, him and Rachel, for their future deep, committed relationship. So they go through properties together, they talk to realtors, they talk about closing dates, they talk to bankers about down payments and mortgages and shit like that. They're looking mostly at Grosse Pointe park because Bob's from there and he knows a lot about there and he didn't want to leave the Neighborhood, so. So they found a place on Kensington Avenue in Grosse Pointe Park. They referred to it as the cottage. Not a huge house by the standards of the neighborhood, but a nice house in a nice neighborhood. So that's the plan. They're gonna move in. He and Rachel and Janet Lehman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, we got the third.

[James Petregallo]

That's part of the plan. He wants a second submissive here. He had met Janet on alt.com as well. He really cleans up on this website. He really was after her hard between November of 2011 and January of 2012, and the same shit he gave Rachel. I'm divorced. No, I'm not divorced. I'm about to be divorced. I'm buying a house. I want you to move into the house. She didn't live in Michigan. She's from out of state. So, yeah, she would come visit, and he would arrange. He'd get her a hotel room and then arrange for him and Rachel or whatever the fuck to go have a party in this hotel room. According to Janet, on one of these encounters, Bob turned up with a big wad of cash and a recent stop at a farm store where he purchased the whip and some rope. So he's got a big wad of cash, farm rope, and a whip that he shows up with. All right. Now, this encounter, Janet said, didn't go well. Bob couldn't get it up. Oh, and this happens all the time to him, apparently. And so basically, what Janet says is what he could not perform sexually, he made up for in flogging. And there's the psychology. These things are an extension of his dick. Yeah, but he's a man who's not proud of his dick. Guys with huge dicks don't do this. Huge dicks that work. Right. They don't need this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But she doesn't even like that.

[James Petregallo]

No. Well, she does, but not to be. She likes BDSM. She met him on alt.com. she's into this shit, but she doesn't like to be beaten the shit out of. That's a different thing. She likes the pain that she likes. Up to a certain point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's almost like he can't fuck and takes it out on people.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like guys do. That happens all serial killers. A lot of times, the ones that try to rape people, they'll find that they didn't fucking. There's no penetration because they couldn't get it up. And that made them even madder, and that made them want to mutilate the body. Janet would later say, quote, it was awful. I wasn't Expecting what? I got a really good beating that left marks for about three months. Months?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Months?

[James Petregallo]

What months I've been in fucking marks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's blood under the skin.

[James Petregallo]

That is serious bruising.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is Months?

[James Petregallo]

Hematoma. Shit. That is crazy. Wow. Months. He beat the shit out of her. Months?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Months. How long can a. I've never heard of a bruise lasting a month.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, you'll see people with marks. If they get in, like, some horrific car accident they had, they'll have marks on them. But that's if they have, like, cuts and shit, you know what I mean? Like a gash or something that. But not a bruise. That seems like a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's scarring. What month?

[James Petregallo]

Man, that is fucking crazy. Now. Jesus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What would you. Why would that make you come? Dude, you're sick. I don't want king shame, but that's sick.

[James Petregallo]

I do want to kink shame. If you like beating the shit out of people, you're fucking twisted. Go to therapy. Sorry. I'm sorry. We have gone way too far with. Hey, I mean, whatever you're into. No, no. If you like hurting people, you're a sick fuck. Go to therapy. If you like being hurt to the point of having marks for three months, you fucking need therapy, too. It's not kink shaming. It's your sick fuck that needs help.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nobody likes that, right?

[James Petregallo]

Some people do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Getting it. No way.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't.

[James Petregallo]

They have to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I could never think that in two months from now I would feel pain.

[James Petregallo]

You wouldn't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

From a fuck session two months ago. That's not.

[James Petregallo]

I would not want that. But, I mean, that's. The people that want. That have fucking problems.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's sick.

[James Petregallo]

They do. And this isn't light shit and fun shit or whatever. We're not even talking about that. This is beatings that leave marks for months, That's a different story. Whoever's into that on either end.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Needs to talk to someone for a long fucking time. That's just weird. So she told him, though, that she wasn't interested in the threesome arrangement. Jan? She said, I'm not really interested. She said, I want to be. I want to be single.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Janet.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Just single, meaning I want to be the only one you beat the shit out of, basically. But his plan is we're all living together in here, and I'm going to do what I want to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Everybody okay?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, me, my two submissives, that's what I got. That's what we're going to do. They get a closing date on the cottage for Friday, January 27, 2012. Now how's he going to pay for this?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Excellent question.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, Jesus Christ, you do anything and the finances are going to come up with your wife or whatever. You can't just buy a house without your wife knowing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's going to know.

[James Petregallo]

She's going to know. So there's a closing date, but no finances in place. So the realtors said that basically Bob kept reassuring them that don't worry about the money, I'll have most of it and I'll get the rest before closing. It'll be fine, don't worry it about, about it. So Christmas 2011, Bob tells two different people in two different conversations around this time that this is going to be the last Christmas I spend with my wife in the family home. Next year everything will be different. He kept saying. Now at this point here, he keeps asking around, remember that tenant he wanted to deal with? He starts talking to other landlords, to bar regulars. Do you know anybody that can rough up or take care of or run over or T bone? He keeps using the same words, this tenant I have because this tenant is making my life fucking miserable and I gotta get rid of this tenant. So then in late 2011, enter Joe Gentz again, Igor. And he starts talking to people about a job. He starts telling friends and acquaintances that his friend Bob here wanted someone to kill his wife. Now we've gone past a tenant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, you gotta be real specific with this guy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you can't just say tenant, wink, wink, he'll go, something in your eye like he doesn't understand what's a tenant, What's a tenant? So Joe would tell people that the wife's a high level executive in downtown Detroit and she leaves work at the same time and she takes, takes a specific route home. And so you want to help me kill this lady? And he said basically he was looking for somebody to help him do quote, a little hit and run. Now for this job that he has decided to take on, Bob has promised to pay him a few thousand dollars and an old Cadillac. What is it with that? Because we just had a murder recently in the last month where someone was like, I'm getting a Cadillac, that's why I'm doing it. This, what is it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is an old.

[James Petregallo]

That was. He wanted a 2002 and 2001. Yeah. This guy's getting like a fucking 10 year old Caddy with a fucking dented quarter panel. This is messed up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's getting the Katara or whatever that shitty one was.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, one of those two seater, what's it called? Those pieces of shit. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cadillac man. That's what Robin Williams.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, that's what he was driving. The convertible Katara. That's right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it a Katara?

[James Petregallo]

It's a Katan, yeah. The Katera, Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Piece of shit.

[James Petregallo]

There was a few. What was? The Alante was one of them. Isn't there an Alante, I believe, or some shit that was also a pile of shit that was similar. Anyway, January 2012. Here Rachel emails Bob asking for documentation. She says, I would like to see the divorce papers. Show me everything. Oh, show me the paperwork.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rachel said this?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. She said, I'm not going to. We're two weeks away from the closing date on the cottage. And she said that I'm not going to close on this. If there's evidence that you're. I don't have evidence that you're actually divorced, basically. So some time goes by here. He bullshits her. January 23, 2012. It's a Monday. Bob obtained a conditional certificate of occupancy for the cottage. I don't know what that is. It's a Michigan thing. It has to be that night. Bob makes a phone call at the end of the night here to Joe Gentz. Okay. Basically they have been. And we'll find out. They've been in constant contact for months. Just all the time, him and Joe Gentz, which if he works for him, he's got jobs for him. But this is multiple times a day, sometimes a dozen calls a day. Good Lord, you can, you can dispatch out your handyman work for the day with one phone call. Maybe there's a problem or two when he has to call you say, hey, yeah, is it all right if I buy some new paint for this thing that broke or something? But other than that, you don't need a dozen calls a day to the handyman. But that night, his last call, the night is to Joe Gentz. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he said good night to him.

[James Petregallo]

Good night, Joe. Now, the next day, Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 5:30am Jane leaves the house on Middlesex Road for her commute to downtown Detroit. She's headed to her office at the Kima Services place and she's gonna do 12 hours and come back. Now, mid afternoon, she has a meeting in downtown Detroit. See? Lots of meetings. Yep. There's always snacks. There's always snacks in there too. I love snacks. She was at the meeting and around the offices all through the afternoon. At three o' clock that Day Bob goes to the office of the realtor handling the cottage purchase, picks up the closing packet for the cottage and brings with him the conditional certificate of occupancy he obtained the day before between 4:52 and 5:20. Bob's cell phone is using sites in the geographic area of the Hard Rock Lounge or Hard Luck Lounge on Mack Avenue. So he's being in there. Bar staff and tenants will later report seeing him in the area during this kind of 4 to 5:30 window. 4:30 to 5:30. About 5 o', clock, the realtor calls Bob to ask about a final walkthrough of the college or the cottage. Bob confirms that it's Everything's fine, everything's good. Final walkthrough I'd like to have is at 2pm on Friday, January 27th. End of this week. Okay. Jane wraps up her work day around five and leaves the office and begins to drive home. She drives a white Mercedes Benz. It's a little SUV.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's doing great.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. The license plate, ML350 or no, that's the car model. So ML350, that's nice. So 4:40 to 6:26pm in this area. Jane's phone is using cell sites in the geographic area consistent with the residents on Middlesex Road heading toward that way. So at some point in there, the phone gets to the house. She pulls in to the garage of her home here. She was on the phone with her daughter on the way home and told her daughter, I'll call you back when I get inside and put my shit down and get some settled. I'm going to take a crap real quick. I'll call you. You know how people do. So she never calls her daughter back, though. Oh, and this is unlike Jane. Jane doesn't get sidetracked. She said she'll call you. She'll call you if she said so. So 9pm that night, Bob heads to the Hard Luck Lounge. Okay? Now that night, out of nowhere, he never does this, but that night he shows up at 9 o' clock and starts sweeping the alley behind the Boss bar. Sweeping the alley, sweeping an alley behind the bar. And like, they thought that was weird. The employees said he liked to be like a big shot. He's never touched a broom in this fucking joint. He'd tell somebody, go fucking go chill out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got an apron on.

[James Petregallo]

He ain't sweeping the alley. He just would walk around the bar, they said. And that night he just walked around. Then he sat in a booth where him and a friend had some drinks. And chatted. About an hour later, Bob said, see you later, and took off. So he showed up, swept the alley, had a couple of drinks and left. All right, so there you go. Once home, he calls the Grosse Pointe Park Public Safety Department.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And says, my name is Bob Bashara. I live on Middlesex. I don't wanna overreact and maybe this is too soon to call, but my wife is not around and she's not answering her cell phone. Her car and her phone and her purse are gone and I'm just a bit concerned.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he's at the house.

[James Petregallo]

He's at the house now. No car, nobody's there. So that's when he calls and he says, I expected her home around 8pm and he says that she failed to arrive for a planned discussion about their taxes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

About their taxes.

[James Petregallo]

About their. That sounds fun, huh? Make an appointment with your wife to talk about your taxes. That sounds great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great. It's a real night.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He says he thought that she must be running errands around 8 o' clock and she wasn't there. Now, the cop who took the call said that his tone was conversational. Mildly concerned, but not visibly distraught. Which is. That matches his words. He said, I don't know if I'm overreacting. This could be nothing. I don't want to sound like a crazy hair on fire guy, but, you know, whatever. So into the next morning, here, over the course of the night, Bob calls a bunch of family members and friends and also Rachel. Oh, he calls Rachel to tell him my wife's missing. Oh, okay. Now, she said he sounded frustrated, but not panicked, just frustrated like she's fucking missing. That's annoying. He also called the police back multiple times over the course of the night. Not sure what was said. He also, that night, by the way, Rachel, when she got home, texted him, home, sir.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, gross.

[James Petregallo]

I don't like that at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't like that every aspect of her life is domination.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. It's creepy as fuck. So, yeah, she's basically an abuse victim who's willing to be an abuse victim. But it's also like, hey, you know,

[Jimmy Whisman]

she's living the Renaissance Festival every day

[James Petregallo]

with abuse, constant abuse. She might as well be in the stocks getting fruit thrown at her. It's not good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, she's saying the lingo and the like speaking in a. You know what I mean? That's so weird in the whole.

[James Petregallo]

That whole world. Totally. So, Wednesday, January 25th. The next day, 7:00am okay, here we go. Now, There is. It's a northeast side of Detroit. A lot of shit gets dumped over here. There's a tow truck driver named Frank Leone, or Leone, however you want to put it. He's driving through the area that day. He's got a company that he works for called HB Land Tower, and they are contracted with the Detroit Police Department to pick up stolen or abandoned vehicles. The city pays them. So this neighborhood is constantly full of abandoned shit because it's where people dump stolen cars and shit like that. So basically, the drivers from all the towing companies that the city works with just circle these blocks, waiting for shit so they can jump on it and get the gig. So. And they're trying to get as many as possible. This guy was on a midnight shift, so it's close to the end of his shift here. Now the sun hasn't quite come up yet because it's January. So it comes up at like 8 o' clock in the morning. Now he spots a Mercedes Benz ML350 SUV in an alley behind an abandoned house at 19416 Annot street and he's like, that's. It's not fucked up. It's not taken apart. It's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, they're like, shit neighborhood with a very nice car behind an abandoned building. And it's all still together. What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, somebody probably stole it and dumped it here. That's it. They stole it? Yeah. They have nothing to do with it, so they dumped it here, which, it makes sense. So he said it's. He thought it was weird that it hadn't been stripped, only dropped off. But. But he said if it sat there for more than a few hours, people would have been taken apart. Yeah, they said they would have taken everything because it's fully perfect.

[Jimmy Whisman]

James. A cop car caught on fire down the street from my house. I don't live in a terrible neighborhood, but the cop car sat there for two days. A day later, that cop car was sitting on its frame and the wheels were gone. Doors were bashed in. In my neighborhood, like, it's not. You leave a car sitting for too long and it's obvious that it's abandoned. People will take shit off of it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, no one wants that anymore. And they'll take it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was sitting on its brake rotors.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. That's awesome. So this tow truck driver is not allowed to tow vehicles without a cop present? Yeah, okay. That's part of the deal. So what he did is he scraped the ice off the SUV's windshield a little Bit just on the bottom and got a grease pencil and wrote, HB Land on the rear. He wrote down the vin. Then he went to the back and wrote with a grease pen. HB Land on the rear window. That shows the other truck drivers, they claimed it. He's just waiting for a cop. So he called the Eastern District police precincts abandoned vehicle officer to report the find. Then drove off to look for more jobs as he awaited the call back from them so he could go back and get it. Basically, he gets the call back, but the problem is that when he goes back, he's not able to tow the car because the cop looked through the window and saw what looked like a woman's dead body in the car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a body in it.

[James Petregallo]

There's a body in here, which isn't good. So the cop calls the Detroit Homicide police section here, obviously. So they get a homicide investigator to come check this out. They get a veteran guy who comes on down and they said he does tons of cases. He's done shitloads of hundreds of cases. He's been involved in homicide cases. Now another homicide cop joins him. So they have a couple of veteran people. They show up, they find that the body in there, it's a woman. She's fully clothed, wearing slippers, House slippers. This is important because in 2012, a respectable woman in her 50s ain't wearing slippers out of the house. Now, every 18 year old doesn't know how to tie a fucking shoe. I assume they don't because they never wear shoes with laces on them. I'm sure they know, but.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Picked up my daughter from volleyball last night. I got a coffee and I was at the coffee shop surrounded by children. Every one of them was in slip ons, slippers or fucking Crocs. There was not a lace out there.

[James Petregallo]

No, they don't know. I just think people gave up on teaching their kids how to tie shoes. So they just said, take these.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Anything's too possible.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm not sure, but that's an age thing. I don't know. So again, that's like the bands in the beginning, they were on bicycles.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Check James.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. No, you can't wear slippers on a bicycle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can't wear Crocs on a bike.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's stupid. That's stupid.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what she's. They're like, okay, she's wearing slippers. They think that the body's kind of posed in the driver's seat, basically her windpipe. We'll find out Is crushed. There's bruises all over her upper body. And she has fingernails broken off, like she's been in a struggle. Struggle. They find out there that it is Jane, wife Jane in the car. Of course, Poor Jane. She did nothing to anybody. This poor woman. She sustained multiple blunt force trauma blows, meaning that in addition to being strangled, she was beaten. And the autopsy finds extensive bruising to her upper body. Crushed windpipe consistent with manual strangulation. Broken fingernails, fingernails missing and snapped off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Off.

[James Petregallo]

Consistent with the fight, the slippers and all that. And she has a broken neck. They find out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

As well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Broken neck.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Somebody just squeezed her neck off. See what happens? That's why you don't get. No one's getting choked. That's how it goes. Broken neck. Which looks like if somebody was strangling you, she was trying to get them off of her neck, essentially. And they said, the slippers. This is a type of a lady, kind of a classy lady in a classy car and all this type of shit. She will only wear slippers places she feels safe enough to wear slippers. Like at her house, at home, places like that. Yeah. A woman like her doesn't go shopping in slippers. She'll put something else on for that. She doesn't drive to meetings and slippers. None of that shit at all. Here, there. So they said they're trying to figure out how did this happen because she was on the phone with her daughter. They know that. So they're like, did she go in the car, change into her slippers and then come back outside for something? Or why would she do that? Or did she have slippers on to begin with? They check all. The whole car, too, by the way, her checkbook is in the car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

Her purse is in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Full of credit cards, debit cards, all the trappings of upper middle class.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Break somebody's neck.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they're like, okay. Because at first they're like, maybe this is carjackers. And they got scared when they had to kill her and they ran away. So they didn't get to take anything. But they said carjackers, especially ones in fucking Detroit that know what they're doing, they'll take her phone, her credit cards. They said there's a $600 coach purse sitting on the fucking.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There.

[James Petregallo]

Sitting there full of other shit that's valuable. So, yeah, no one's doing that. And it's an $80,000 car. They're like, no one's just leaving all this here. No one would kill someone for nothing. So they take her to the medical examiner. Like I said, cause of death is ruled a homicide by strangulation. And I said crushed windpipe is consistent with two hands wrapped around her throat along with the bruising, using pressure applied long enough and hard enough to collapse the laryngeal cartilage.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And cartilage, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And they said she sustained blunt trauma, meaning she was beaten. So this is a lot. And a broken neck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they figure out that it's Jane, like we said, and, you know, they match the car to the missing persons report that Bob had filed the night before. They're like, okay, this woman, this car, this guy reported it missing. This all makes sense. So a bunch of cars show up to Bob's and Jane's house to make a death notification. From what I understand, Jane isn't there or Bob isn't there at that moment. Bob's actually at the realtor's office at that point. Oh, yeah. Which is interesting. So anyway, they're talking about final details. When they finally talked to Bob, essentially, the accounts of the officers who told him said that he had a lack of reaction or emotion, which is interesting. And other family members and friends who came to the house in the hours afterwards said the same thing. They said he exhibited grief and anguish. And then some people said he didn't. So it's like, we don't know which is which here. So the cops, in their notes say that he doesn't seem real broken up about this whole thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not sad.

[James Petregallo]

That very evening, on the front lawn of Grosse Pointe South High School, where she was president of the Mother's Club, the community holds a candlelight vigil for Jane. Her minister's leading the prayer. Hundreds of people show up. Everybody from church shows up. Bob's there. Obviously, the battlefield can be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a candlelight vigilant, and it's somebody talking.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta be there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta be there.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta be there. And people said that he was present but didn't speak. He didn't, like, address the crowd or anything like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gotta be the ringmaster tonight.

[James Petregallo]

Well, Bob begged Rachel by text and phone and email not to come to this, or I'm sorry to come to this. So she comes. Oh, they hug at the vigil. And people are like, who the fuck is this broad he's hugging?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

That's odd. But they were like, who knows? Maybe that's an old friend we don't know about. Somebody from college. Who the hell knows? So. So some people said they didn't recognize Rachel. But the problem is everybody that knows him from the Wayne State Board knows who Rachel is because she works there. So a lot of people do know. And they're like, that's interesting. Now, Bob at the vigil mentions to Rachel that he's working. That he's got a theory of what happened to his wife. He knows what happened. Yeah. He says that, you know, I know what happened. He goes, this was a carjack.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Was it?

[James Petregallo]

She works in Detroit. And he says that's when he uses the moment to say those n words. Carjacked her and took her. Fuck. Yeah, it's Detroit. Those fucking. That's what it is. Remember, it's the ghetto nucleus, as that reviewer said. That's what it is. So he's just like, I can just blame that. Must have been some black guys in the city. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is he cool? Yay.

[James Petregallo]

That's what he said. Yeah. So that day or the next day at Wayne State, by the way, Rachel is at her desk, and by the end of the workday, she's been fired.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

They shit can her. They fire her. She walks out. They figured it out. They figured out that he was having an affair with her. And he's on the board and she works there. And now his wife is dead. And the whole thing is just. Whole thing is just a little too unsightly for to have at the university. January 26th to 30th. This is very interesting. Okay, the 26th, Bob is told by the police and he drops off an envelope for Joe Gentz at the thrift store where Gentz volunteers. He tells the woman who receives the envelope that it's payment for a job is what's in there. So Gentz, the day before, had been seen with $800 or $900 in cash.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dang.

[James Petregallo]

Some of it he uses to buy a new cell phone, which he doesn't have that much cash sitting around all the time. Time. January 27th is the closing on the cottage on Kensington Avenue. It's scheduled that afternoon, but Bob can't close on it, obviously. Can't close on that shit. He's got. His wife is dead. He's got no money. What's he supposed to do? So he says, can't do that right now. That same day, Grosse Pointe park police chief announces publicly that Bob is a person of interest in the investigation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

They have ruled out some n words in the city, as he put it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. They were like, nope, sorry. Sorry, Bob.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We ruled them all out, Bob.

[James Petregallo]

Every one of them. At least the ones in the city. So the chief says there's no other persons of interest at that time. And also tells the Detroit Free Press that Bob has taken a polygraph and failed it. Ah. Ah. We'll talk about that. January 28th, Bob's first attorney, David Grime, delivers a letter to the Grosse Pointe park police. And the letter identifies Joseph Goetz as a possible suspect. So he's trying to tell on Joseph Goetz. The letter is based on Bob's claim that Getz had been threatening him and bothering him in the weeks before the murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what the lawyer said.

[James Petregallo]

That's what the lawyer said to the cops. Meanwhile, they were constantly. Yeah, Mayor Green, one of the time. The letter, though, it's interesting that no one in his life, including Rachel or anybody else, had ever heard Bob mention being threatened or harassed by Joe Gentz. As a matter of fact, it's the opposite. They say that he follows him around like a dog. It's different. Before the murder happened, Joe and Bob were on the phone 15 times a day. After the murder, they stopped talking to each other. And now all of a sudden, Joe is this guy he's been afraid of for weeks, and now it's our. That's weird. Yeah. So there's. They have to investigate the police. They first have to find out, because they find out he's been asking about can you T bone my tenant? And all that. So they had to find out, where's this tenant? Who is that? Make sure he's talking about somebody different. One of the guys he said that to is a guy named Steve Tabata or Ty Botto, whatever. Everyone's name is hard to fucking pronounce today. This person, Steve, would later testify later on here that Bob had asked him about T boning or running over a female tenant who was making his life hell. He also said variations of this to a guy named Paul Monroe as well. Then there's another guy we'll bring up later on named Larry Ellington. That's. That's very fun. Here. Nobody ever found out who this possible tenant could be?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can't figure it out.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. But there's no actual female tenant who fits anything he's talking about, so that makes no sense. Then they say, all right, we gotta look at cell site data. Let's look at the tower data and see what happens. So at 6:26pm unlike what Bob said, both Jane's phone and Bob's phone are using the same cell tower near the household. Yeah, he's saying, I haven't seen her. Their phones are together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Phones are together, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is interesting. Now, 6:26 to 6:28, both phones begin to move away from the area of the home. Jane's phone moves north. Bob's phone moves back toward the Hard Rock or the Hard Luck Lounge. So now they're going in opposite directions. So that's interesting. Now what they think happened here. 6:30pm A little bit later, Jane's phone is riding, they believe, along with her body, moving away from the home and into Detroit, picking up successive cell towers as it goes. Yeah. After 8:42, her phone stops from that point until the next morning when the body's found, the phone uses one particular cell, which is in the area of where the car was found in Detroit, which was near an alley near Pinewood and annot a n n o t t. So the phone was now stationary the whole time. Now, Bob drove, when he drove away, he goes back to the Hard Luck Lounge area where he establishes himself in front of the bar staff and tenants. That's when he went and switched sweeping alley.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He's seen doing that kind of manufacturing his own alibi. After about 5pm though, all the calls on Jane's phone are incoming calls. Nothing from her end going out. Oh, 11:00pm is when he calls to report his wife missing. So that's the whole day and how it breaks down. Now, January 30th, investigators publicly state that they believe Jane was murdered in her home in the garage, and that her body was there, then moved into the SUV and abandoned in Detroit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is theory. Yeah, that's not a theory. That tells me they know something.

[James Petregallo]

They're saying right away. Well, between the phone shit and the slippers and all that, they're like, she wasn't going to downtown Detroit right then. That wasn't part of this. So they said that, you know, it wasn't a carjacking. They don't believe the press starts asking why the husband does. Didn't notice anything if he was home all night.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

January 31st, 2012. Day of the funeral at 3:00 clock in the morning. So the funeral is going to be later in the day. 3 o' clock in the morning, a man walks into the Grosse Pointe park police station and asked to speak with investigators on the Jane Bashara case. He's a big, heavy set, visibly nervous guy named Joseph Gentz. Uh oh. Uh oh is right. Gentz had been driven to the station by a friend of his. This friend, I guess, talked later on Here and said that Gentz had told him, and later on the police that Bob had pointed a gun at him and said, do it now. And then Joe killed Jane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

That's what he told his friend.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He killed somebody at gunpoint.

[James Petregallo]

Apparently, that's what he's saying. He said, go ahead and do it. Now. Gentz tells the Grosse Pointe park investigators a version of that story. He said he killed Jane because Bob made him. Bob threatened him and paid him and also promised him an old Cadillac and that Bob owes him money that he still hasn't paid yet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

Deadbeat. So the police, they don't immediately take this at face value. They said that basically they could tell right away that this guy isn't all there, gents. He's kind of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, give us some proof, Joey.

[James Petregallo]

Well, yeah, he's a little slow. Then they look into it a little bit and they find out that he's got a 67 IQ. He's cognitively limited and. Yeah, so basically also, they don't know if he's just dumb. If he's drunk is another thing they think of. Is he dumb? Is he drunk? He's got bipolar. Is he off his meds? That's the other thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is there a physical disability that causes him to have some sort of delusions? We don't know.

[James Petregallo]

So basically he says all this and then they go, all right, well, have a good one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Take care, John.

[James Petregallo]

He gets up and leaves.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Because they don't believe him, basically. So that's that. Now, it's very interesting. Now, the wdiv, which is a TV station, reports that a Joe, they don't use his last name, is telling investigators he was directly involved in the murder of Jane but was forced to be involved by another person who was in the room. So that comes out publicly. 10:30am Jane's funeral is held at the Grosse Pointe Memorial Church. Hundreds of people are there, including a congressman. Everybody's there. Yeah. Bob attends. Of course, they catch Bob leaving with the suit on and all that. Local media has him here now. 2:24pm The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office tells reporters they have not been presented a warrant request in the homicide investigation. As they said, are you going to arrest anybody? And they go, the cops have not come to us for a while. So until they have a case, what are we supposed to do? Problem is, one of the fingernails is a piece of. It's recovered.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where was it?

[James Petregallo]

Not sure exactly. Possibly in the car, possibly in the garage. Either way, it's matched against DNA.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it's got DNA under it.

[James Petregallo]

It's got DNA under it because she fought like a fucking. Like a bastard here. So basically what ended up happening is they think after they put all this together that she pulled into the garage. Gentz was waiting in the garage for him, for her. According to this, Joe must have jumped out and strangled Jane in the garage. Now, Joe Gentz has different versions of the story. In one, he's holding there, standing there, holding a gun on Joe, saying, saying, shut her up. Do it now. Later on, though, he says that Bob had told him to come over and help him move boxes. So he came over, he said that Bob was already there. Jane and Bob were arguing, and Jane was telling Bob to get his shit out of the garage. It's at that point Bob pulled a handgun and held it out to Joe, not on him, but to him, and said, shut her up. Do it now. Now that's the story that he gives. Or that's what they're talking about, what they think happened here. Telling her, shut her up. Do it now. He said, after he did it, then Bob stood over the body and addressed the corpse, saying, I'm sorry, baby, I didn't mean it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

So after she was dead, he said, they loaded her body into the back of her own suv, drove to an alley, and then posed her in the driver's seat as if she had been ambushed in her own car. So that's what they were there. They said they left her there in her slippers and just let her fucking be there. So the funeral was six days after the whole thing. After the murder, the husband's already been named publicly a person of interest. The press are all over this shit like. Like you wouldn't believe. They're so all over this shit. And they have this handyman that walked into a station at 3am and told the cops that he'd done it. So it's all. It's all very confusing. But then February 1, 2012, the story breaks here. There are cameras from a local station outside Bob's house. And he said that he refuses to comment on the latest allegations against him. By Joe. He just says, by Joe, meaning Gentz. Then he says right into the cameras, I did not kill my wife. I had nothing to do with this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

That's what he says right in the camera. So the press now has this successful lady found in an alley, her husband who's bombastic. They got a guy with a 67 IQ saying he did it. This is turning into a real circus here. So Bob Here, back to that polygraph. He took it, the polygraph examination, voluntarily at the police department and failed it miserably.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So while he's doing that, though, the police execute a search warrant of his home. They removed computers, they took pictures, they documented where everything was, all that shit. So they figure out what's going on here. They get everything. They get the laptops open, they see emails between Bob and Rachel and Bob and Janet and Bob and various alt boxes.com correspondence, which is not looking good to anybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Then they told the Detroit Free Press, or the Detroit Press in general, that he had failed a lie detector as well. The cops tell him that. So now he looks like a bad guy. Yeah, he was trying to be. Hey, I'm upstanding guy. My wife got hurt. I don't know why anybody's looking at me. Then February 2nd, several publications now talk about Bob's double life. It's now a fucking headline.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They found out.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. That Bob led a double life centering on, quote, the underground world of sadomasochism and sexual deviancy with women other than his wife. That's the. Yep. So there you go. That's basically. That's one of the quotes from one of the papers. But they were all basically a version of that. The Detroit News breaks specifically that Bob had maintained a sex dungeon in the basement to the hard lung. This is like. This is fascinating for local people. Like, I've driven by there. There was sex dungeon shit going on in there. Holy cow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I had no idea.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Every news cycle introduces another layer. The sex dog and the mistresses. Master Bob Slave Rachel. Alt.com Whips, floggings, cocaine, a2 reformatory cottage. Bringing in a third and beating her. So she's marked for three months. All this is coming out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's in so much trouble.

[James Petregallo]

So what is he. What would you do?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'd love to talk about my options,

[James Petregallo]

but I mean, like, to get away from this. You'd probably sit in a closet for a day, right in the dark.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta lock yourself somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

He goes on Good Morning America.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

He does the Corey Richens.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hi. Al roker, please.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. February 7, 2012. In the midst of all this. Not like a month went by.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good morning, Mr. Strahan.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. Hey. Oh, God. Jesus. So it continues. Now they're searching his house. Like I said, they're doing all this shit. He appears on camera, though, holding hands with his daughter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Aw, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

And he said about his wife, quote, we had a very good open relationship. We. What does he mean? We were open with each other, or does he mean an open relationship? Like, she didn't mind if I fucked other women? And he left that ambiguous. I feel on purpose, he said, I'm frightened about this. To know that I could spend the rest of my life in jail for a crime I didn't commit is a very scary thing. Now, they asked him about Joe Gens.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, about this guy.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, quote, I do believe that he's the one that did it. He wanted more money from me. He badgered me. And, yes, I do believe that he is capable of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He believes it.

[James Petregallo]

He believes it 100%.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it because he saw it happen

[James Petregallo]

as I was there and helped dispose of the body?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I seen it.

[James Petregallo]

I seen it. So he said. They asked him about the allegation that Joe leveled that Bob held him at gunpoint to force him to strangle his wife. Bob said, quote, I don't own a firearm. No, I don't own a firearm, and I absolutely had nothing to do with this. That is a sick assessment on his part. It just shows how deranged he is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

He's deranged. This guy asked about the BDSM stuff. He said, quote, I don't want to get into that. I have my children to worry about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't want them to know.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They call me Daddy Bob.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's a different kind. But I'm in charge still. It's the same thing. He said, the fact that they've named me the person of interest is unthinkable to me. Me that they think I could have harmed my sweetheart. We loved each other. My sweetheart. Okay. After that, more witnesses start coming forward. Paul Monroe is a witness that said, Bob. He talked to Bob around Christmas, and Bob said that it was gonna be his last Christmas with his wife. And that Bob admitted to him after the fact that he'd paid Joe to kill Jane because divorce forcing her would, quote, be like losing money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

He's like. He told me he had this guy do it. Then Janet goes to the police, too. Yeah, that's not good. She said that she overheard Bob on the phone with a man later identified to her as his handyman. The handyman Janet said would obviously is Joe Gentz. The conversation she remembered was, quote, his voice became elevated, and I heard him say, what in the hell is wrong with you? I want this done. I want it done. Now get to work. I mean, that could be fixing somebody's air conditioning unit, though. You know what I mean? That could be anything. So that's kind of tough. After the murder, Bob would call Janet and ask her. This is wild. He called after the murder and asked her to hide Rachel. Hey, listen, you live out of state. Take Rachel out of state and away from the police. There's a ranch in Oregon. Take her out there and you guys just hang out there. She didn't do that, but she did go to the cops.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Could you go to Oregon and ride horsies for me, please?

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe you guys could, I don't know, go lesbian. Open up a coffee shop in Portland, something. Live a life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's all I'm saying. What I'm saying is get yourself a Subaru and have a scissor weekend.

[James Petregallo]

Get on in there. So that's how she said. Now, Pat Webb police. Ask him about the cheaper to kill the bitch comment as well. Pat Webb talks to the cops. They also report. Because it's been reported that Bob had had a relationship with a mistress who was identified pretty quickly as Rachel Gillett, who obviously was employed with Wayne State University. Now, Gillett had been talked to by the cops and let go already. In early March, they raid her home. Uh oh. And they leave carrying seven cardboard boxes and an evidence bag.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shit.

[James Petregallo]

Correspondence. March 3, 2012. This is right after her house is raided. Joe Gentz is finally arrested. They hadn't arrested nobody. Even the guy came in and said, I killed her. They didn't even arrest him yet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Listen.

[James Petregallo]

So go home. Yuck. Yeah. He's arrested in Mount Clements, Clemens, which by the way, is Jane's hometown. He's charged with first degree murder and held at the county jail. Joe is now March 9th. Here they report. And this is fucking. This is. This is so enraging when I hear dumb shit like this. The press reports this. The clothing Jane had been wearing at the time of her death. You know, that might have DNA, hair fibers, all sorts of shit has been completely. Is missing. Completely gone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Of course it's lost.

[James Petregallo]

Just the most important murder case. The most high profile murder case we have. We don't know where anything is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We put it back on her and buried her in it.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Well, they said that the clothing had been supposed to ship from Wayne County Medical examiner to the Michigan State Police crime laboratory. Instead of. It had been picked up by the funeral home along with Jane's body and disposed of the fucking funeral home. Just threw her clothes out. Burned them, bro. Who knows?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I bet they do that a lot.

[James Petregallo]

If I had an incinerator that went that high, I'd burn everything. I'd burn an old car. I wouldn't matter. It's going right in there. Fucking one tire.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I wouldn't have shit on Facebook, Marketplace.

[James Petregallo]

No, nothing. I would have no garbage. I wouldn't even get pickup. I'd be like, no, nope. I burn it all. Just burn it in that thing. Yeah. So anyway, that's what happened. Now the Detroit police and the Grosse Pointe Park Police in public blame each other for this. Really? Yep. And the medical examiner said it's just routine procedures and something got screwed up. But that's a big screw up. Big. They still have the fingernail at the DNA, but that could have helped too. April 2012. Bob is still not arrested.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Say again?

[James Petregallo]

He's still out there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They only arrested Joe.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they just arrested Joe. At this point, he's free, living at the home, working on the Hard Luck Lounge, calling and emailing Rachel.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Without him, Joe's got no interest or reason to do this.

[James Petregallo]

No, he doesn't have. What the hell is he gonna get out of it? Nothing. It's stupid. And by the way, Rachel, after her home got raided, took out a protection order against him. And he just ignores that and keeps calling her anytime. So there's several reasons he should be in jail at this point. And also the DNA, they come out that it doesn't match Bob, but does match Joe, which is exactly what Joe said. Then there's the phone records that show that the contact between Joe and Bob didn't stop on January 25th. It continued. They were calling each other, texting each other, and all the way through the funeral week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck, boys?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so that seems a little bit silly. Tells quite the story here about that. And also they're talking about the phones and how they were separated. Bob's phone and Jane's phone were both at home. And then they went in opposite directions. Then there's a guy, remember Steve Tabato, that we talked about? Okay. He is a Detroit area furniture and appliance store owner and an acquaintance of Bob. Not apparently a BDSM friend, just a friend friend. Sometime in the late spring of 2012, Joe Gentz, who was in the county jail on first degree murder here, I guess. Bob approaches Tabato, Steve Tabato, and the request is that he said, quote, this is from Steve, quote, hey, can you arrange to have somebody take care of him?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Him in the joint.

[James Petregallo]

In the joint. And so this Steve Tabato said that he wanted Gentz killed. And Steve said, I told him anybody could be hit anywhere. They're at. So Per what Tabato says here, Bob also told him that here, and he'll tell another guy later on that he was worried about Gentz's upcoming competency hearing. He said if Gentz is found competent to stand trial. He said if it would be his life if Gentz were found competent to stand trial. And Tabato said that, quote, he said he needed to have Mr. Gentz taken care of before his competency hearing. He said, this is my life. I have to have something done with that guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. So at this point here, Bob or Tabato just ends up going to the Wayne County Prosecutor's office and giving them

[Jimmy Whisman]

a call and telling them about it.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said, he's trying to get me

[Jimmy Whisman]

to kill people behind bars.

[James Petregallo]

It's crazy. So then the prosecutor's office, in coordination with the FBI, fitted Tabata with a recording device. And he's gonna wear a wire now. I love this. So he went back to Bob. They had more conversations, all captured on tape, discussing the hit, discussing payment, discussing how Tabata would be expected to arrange for an actual gunman or assailant inside the jail to do the actual killing. Probably use shank would probably be less gunfire in a jail is going to draw some attention. Tabato takes $2,000 in cash as a down payment. So now it's a thing. And on a hit in between them, they set the total price at about $20,000. On one of the tapes, Bob said the line that's going to come up later on again and again in court, he said, quote, once I pay the money, it's a fucking conspiracy. Again, again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Again. That's two.

[James Petregallo]

That's two. So June 25, 2012. It's almost six months. Yeah, he's arrested. Finally.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Finally.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Almost five months. He's arrested again. Yeah. And they were waiting to get all the tape, so they had him dead to rights on that shit. So they arrested him at his home. He is charged with the solicitation of murder, is what he's charged with. Not killing his wife for the Joe Gent solicitation. That's what he's being charged with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And that's plenty for now. We can work about the other one.

[James Petregallo]

Long as we keep him with no bail. Fuck it. His first attorney tells reporters, quote, it's not often that I find myself speechless, but this is one of those occasions. I was completely surprised he said that. Bob's been in complete disbelief when he was told what he was arrested for. And he said that once he was told, all Bob could say is, this is A setup.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a frame job.

[James Petregallo]

Must be somebody that hated my dad or something. It's a setup. He also, the lawyer also tells another reporter that Bob was so unstable upon intake into the jail that he was placed on suicide watch. Which is very normal for a normal guy to be arrested for murder. They put him on suicide watch. It's like when they get sentenced, they're on suicide watch for the next.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, it is really annoying when somebody is charged with something and they don't watch them and then they fucking commit suicide.

[James Petregallo]

I have no problem with that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I mean, I get it.

[James Petregallo]

You just saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't understand people's obsession with. I want to look at him while they tell him, I don't care. Is he off the streets? Great. None of my business what else happens.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kills himself.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

When they put you through all that and then they commit suicide.

[James Petregallo]

Don't care they're dead. What do you care? People want it exactly how they want it. Not only do I want them in trouble, but then I want them to sit there, then I want them to suffer. I want them to feel like this. And then I want to kill him. I don't give a fuck about any of that shit. Is he dead? Awesome. Moving on. Who cares?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, generally if they commit suicide, it's rarely like, you know what I mean? They rarely go, oh, that guy didn't do it after all. That never happens.

[James Petregallo]

That never happens. They find five more people he killed usually, after all. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They find more times that they did some bad shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He's like, oh shit, I better kill myself before they find the rest of it. So the lawyer said that he was in complete disbelief and the setup and all that kind of thing. He said. This is what he said about Bob in a state that I would describe almost as despondency. I indicated to police officials that I was worried about his well being and I believe that they put him on a suicide watch. So he's arraigned two days later and that's how it is. By the way. They said that Bob's a danger to the community and could easily contract another hit. So please don't let him out. And he Never makes bond. October 4, 2012. Bob's lawyer is given permission to quit and another lawyer comes on board. Oh, he doesn't want to do it. Yeah, too much out of my league here or whatever his thoughts were. October 11, 2012. Bob pleads guilty to solicitation of murder for Joe Gantz. He's on wiretap. He can't do shit. So they're sentencing, and during sentencing, he talks. Bob. And he said that he had nothing to do with his wife's death. This is not what he's being arrested for. Not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It doesn't matter right now.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. He said that. He said, yeah, none of that shit. He did say. Well, he said, quote, I absolutely. I know I absolutely did wrong. What I did was inexcusable, and I have no one to blame but myself. I understand that I must pay for what I've done. I absolutely stand before you and my family and the world to take responsibility for my actions. Oh, which is okay. He's going all in on the remorse card. Did you get less time? And the judge says, you, sir, may fuck off. 80 months to 20 years in prison, which isn't bad for trying to get a man murdered. That's pretty low.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that? It's over five years.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, 80 months. Age? 10. 12. 12 is 60. So it's like. Yeah, 7 and change to 27 and a half to 20, basically. Which. That's not bad for him. That's not too bad at all. 20, 19 would make him eligible for parole at that point, which is hard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not bad.

[James Petregallo]

Less than seven years away. That's not bad at all for that then. Larry Ellington, who was Bob's cellmate at the Oaks Correctional Facility, will end up testifying later that Bob talked to him about wanting hits on three different people, not just Gentz, also Steve Tabato Gentz. And a man named Timothy Ramsey, who hasn't even come up in this goddamn story yet. Yeah, apparently he's a witness and according to Ellington, that he wanted to hit all these people to remove them as witnesses. The cellmate testified later that Bob offered him $5,000 to $10,000 for the additional hits. But he said, it'll take a minute because my money's tied up. You know how it works.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Insurance policies and stuff.

[James Petregallo]

You know, I gotta wait for some stuff. Joe Gentz also pleads guilty. Second degree murder, reduced from first as a part of a plea agreement in exchange for his testimony at any future murder trial. For bond.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In case we get him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, just in case. During his sentencing, Gentz spoke and apologized. He said that he was very sorry for what happened and asked for forgiveness and maintains that Jane's husband Bob promised to pay him for killing his wife. Wife, the judge said you had the power of life and death. Did you ever think this is wrong? Did you ever think to spare her? And he said he Knew right from wrong. But I mean, you're asking a guy who's not all there too. So who knows? Anyway, they send him off to the Michigan Department of Corrections and eventually the Bellamy Creek Correctional facility as well. April 17, 2013. Bob is finally charged with murder, first degree premeditated murder, conspiracy to commit first degree murder, solicitation of first degree murder, obstruction of justice, bribing, intimidating, or interfering with a witness. A lot of charges. He claims indigence, says he has no money, tells the judge he's attempting to raise funds to obtain new counsel, which he doesn't. So he has appointed lawyers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. Don't worry, we got you covered.

[James Petregallo]

We got you. We gotta have somebody. 2016, here's his trial. Gentz doesn't want to testify now. Changed his mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, you can't.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. This is in the middle of him when he was actually negotiating for a sentence reduction from what he had. Yeah, yeah. He's trying to get it down to five years in exchange for his testimony.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not.

[James Petregallo]

No, the prosecution said no. They said that. So his lawyer said that if the prosecution wouldn't negotiate, Gentz isn't taking the stand. So they said, well, if he does that, then you're reopening him up to first degree murder charges under his plea agreement and perjury charges as well. Right. So Gent said, fuck that. No, according to his lawyer. His lawyer said this even though Mr. Bashara is in prison, Mr. Bashara having tried to kill him in jail before or paying someone to kill him, that sooner or later is going to happen. This is going to happen in prison, in this stretch. That's what my client believes. And then Gent said, quote, I've been called a rat. What do they do with rats in prison? They kill you. He's like, I'm not getting killed over this shit. Fuck it. So Bob's trial, the prosecution opening, basically, they talk about the closing date being three days after the murder, which seems pretty unintentional. The prosecutor said he could not afford to have both Rachel and a wife. Wife couldn't do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the other one too, and the

[James Petregallo]

third too, to come into the whole thing. And he said that later on they gave a bunch of evidence about the roughing up my tenant. And they said the defendant was obviously looking for someone to do violence and found that person when he found Joseph Gentz. Then they talk about the last call that he made the night before was to Joseph Gentz. They said the last call the defendant makes at night, the day before the murder, is To Joseph Gentz. Yeah. You're going to hear testimony about Gentz's intellectual capabilities. The defendant is not calling him so they can discuss Einstein's theory of relativity. That's hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's not even calling him to discuss how a combustion engine works.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck no. Geez. He said numerous individuals, including Gillett, Rachel, will testify that they had never heard him mention Gentz before Jane's death and never heard him state that Gentz was threatening or harassing him. They said while Gentz did the physical act of killing Jane. And DNA will prove that he hid it or he did it under Bob's direction and called him the Puppet Master. Ooh, that's good. Yeah, The Puppet Master. So. So that became kind of the whole thing. I got to write that down. That might be good for a title. It's a different. That's a nice one for everybody. Yeah. So that's what they want to put in. They walked the jury through the crime scene photos. They said there was evidence of staging. If Jane had been killed in a random carjacking, her checkbook, credit cards, debit cards, and cell phone would have been taken. And they were not right. The defense opening here, they say, this is amazing. His lawyer's primary message is, this is the day that Mr. Bashar has been waiting for. Has he could not wait for this trial? Yep. Said that. Jane said, listen, you've been sold a bill of goods by the prosecution. The truth is Jane knew all this shit. She knew what her husband was into and she was fine with it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She liked it.

[James Petregallo]

Even though there's no correspondence or anything like that that would back that up. He never said, oh, I'm going to beat some other women now. And she was like, okay, K me when you get home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got a new Cat O9 tail

[James Petregallo]

meatloaf in the fridge. None of that happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Leave my nipple clamps on the clothes.

[James Petregallo]

I'll leave them out there. You can borrow them. His attorney told the jury that Jane once told a friend that her husband was getting into some weird sexual stuff and that Jane had said Bob could do whatever he wanted to do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Huh.

[James Petregallo]

I don't care what he does. The defense there is. It's an open marriage. Mutual knowledge, no motive for murder. What the hell's he got to kill her for? She doesn't care. And then this is another thing. She also said she's the breadwinner. Why would he want her dead? There's reasonable doubt in this trial. He needs her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a great point.

[James Petregallo]

Well, part of it is she had $800,000 in her 401, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She doesn't need her at all.

[James Petregallo]

Doesn't need her at all. An expensive house. God knows whatever insurance shit he has,

[Jimmy Whisman]

she has sell so much shit and finance this cottage and fucking fuck anybody you want. Or at least spank him for a while.

[James Petregallo]

And had an income replacement life insurance policy as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus. He was gonna be fine.

[James Petregallo]

Gonna be fine. Rachel spends two days on the stand. Oh, okay. And they put all the email. Basically, she's like Corey Richen's ex boyfriend in that trial when he comes and he's on the stand and they're putting all of his text messages up and he's just hanging this head. He's turned around to the back of the court like that's what's going on to her. All this collared shit and my loves of stuff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So where'd you meet him again?

[James Petregallo]

So she said, though, that she talked about how she wanted to leave for a traditional relationship, but Bob was refusing to let her. And talked about the dungeon and what was down there and the shitty partitions and the leather chair for Bob to oversee. Everything thing she tells him about, or she tells the jury about being blindfolded with another woman ending up at the house. And then she slept on the floor. And Rachel said she was upset and freaked out by that. Okay. The judge speaks to Rachel and says, why did you keep coming back to him? You've explained all the different times you got away. And she said you get the apologies, the excuses, the promises, and you want to believe it. It's like anybody in an abusive relationship. Yeah, exactly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How long you been on the bench?

[James Petregallo]

Your Honor, you don't understand how abusive relationships work. The cross on Rachel cross examination here, because she's cooperating with law enforcement, so she has no charges against her. She has immunity. They work on while she's motivated to lie. That's how she got all that kind of shit. They said she was a willing, desperate and active participant, not a victim. The lawyer said, said he was so important to you that you would do anything, even consent to having a third person living in your dream house together with Bob. Right? And she says yes. Then they say the truth of the matter is you would do just about anything to make him happy. And she said, yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

And then they said, other than in our BDSM outings, Bob, and in your BDSM outings, Bob never laid a hand on you. And she said, right. Then this is the defense attorney said, given everything about Bob, his lies, his Life. His role in killing Jane. Would you ch. Would you have traded places with Jane? Would you do that? Be the wife instead of the slave? And she said, some days.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, some days I wouldn't.

[James Petregallo]

Some days. So in the middle of the trial, Bob dramatically doubles over and falls on the ground, claiming severe pain. He's dying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm gonna have a heart attack. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's some sort of episode. The trial's halted. Everything's gone. They make a medical assessment. He's fine. Trial resumes. Then a giant power outage hits downtown Detroit, and the whole place loses power, and they have to delay the trial again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he didn't have anything to do with that?

[James Petregallo]

No, I guess not. Janet Lehman testifies the number three there, the third. She did this on a courtroom whiteboard because there was stuff up there. The prosecutor worked through the timeline of the encounter and asked Jane about his sexual performance. That's when she said. The night about the beating that was so severe, quote, the chairman of the board didn't show up for work. Sorry, Bob. Sorry to talk about your limp dick in a courtroom, but that's what's going on. The chairman of the board didn't show

[Jimmy Whisman]

us the CEO was sleepy, if you know what I mean.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Oh, man. She talked about the beating. She also talked about the phone call she overheard with the handyman. She talked about the big wad of cash and the whip and rope purchase. Then she said that after Jane's death, Bob reached out to her to hide Rachel as well, which she didn't, and instead went to the investigators. They brought in Sir Patrick Webb. Sir Patrick. To talk about the A2 reformatory, and he'd describe Bob's preferences in the scene. Said Bob liked to be in control and insisted as being addressed as Master Bob.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Whenever anybody needs to be addressed as something specific, I think they're an asshole. I don't care. You call me anything you want. I don't give a fuck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All of this stuff, none of it was meant to be said in a courtroom. And. And Bob is.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Boy, is he being humiliated right now. If he didn't like. If he liked to be humiliated, this would have been. He'd have come. He'd have came right here in this courtroom.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And they're even making fun of his basement. Said it was a dingy room. Hooks, whips, harnesses, and other equipment.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He had a shithole room.

[James Petregallo]

When they asked the question here, they said, did he use the words that he felt trapped in the marriage? And they said, yes, he did. He felt trapped in the marriage and he wanted to do more in the BDSM community, but he felt trapped with Jane. He didn't use her name, he just said, his wife. So they said, did you believe all this shit from him? And Webb said as people talked about divorce, one night it was let out that it would be cheaper to kill the bitch. And he said that, quote, I took it as any other blue collar American would take it. Just blowing off some steam. Did I put any weight to it? No. By the way, they talk about his interesting furniture that he has. BDSM furniture, bondage furniture. And he said, you can't buy BDSM furniture at La Z, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can you not?

[James Petregallo]

I gotta make it myself. Sorry. They talked to the Steve Tabato who wore the Wire about once I pay the money, it's a fucking conspiracy. Again, they asked. I guess he gave a statement. They said, what do you think of Bob? And he said, crazy. He screws everyone out of their money. Then the cellmate comes in and talks about how he wanted Gentz taken care of before the competency hearing. And. Yeah, and Ellington, the roommate here cellmate said that he said to Bob, quote, you had your wife killed. And Bob said, that's why I need that fucker dead. Had him killed. Then they talk about the gun. He does have a gun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where is it?

[James Petregallo]

And right after the murder, he told his elderly mother, Nancy, who's a very respected figure here to handle some shit for him, asked her to place a bag of items into a safety deposit box at the bank. Inside of there is a gun. It's kind of an antique revolver. Now, the weapon described in the garage by Joe Genz was a semi automatic. So different guns, gun. But now he looks like an even bigger liar saying, I never own a gun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So now he might have several guns.

[James Petregallo]

The defense's whole thing is the police are incompetent. They lost the clothes. You know, this is ridiculous closing arguments here. The prosecution says it was a reality. A man who was not emasculated. There's a reality of a man who was not emasculated with his words. He named himself Master Bob. And there Aaron created another world. In this, he wrote, soon you will feel my strength and passion. That's not a man who has erectile dysfunction. That's a man who feels loved, adored and needed. He created a life as a BDSM master. He created one world, he was living in another. The defense said, come on, no. They accused the prosecution of being out to get Bob. They said, she's A breadwinner. Why would they want her dead? Come on. Basically, now the verdict comes in. It's two and a half days of deliberation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

And they find him a guilty of everything, really. First degree, premeditated conspiracy, solicitation, obstruction, bribing, intimidating. That's what I'm wondering. They must have good food in there. They were getting good shit. Bob here was in the room. A reporter said he shook his head once, then again, then a third time, and by the jury, by the time they read the fifth and final verdict, he had dropped his head in his left hand and covered his eyes. He gave up, shook a few times. Then he's just like, fuck it, I don't know what I'm doing. His attorney said he's in shock. He's very disappointed in the verdict. During sentencing, Jane's mother, Lorraine is 83 years old and she goes out there to talk. She said, know you took Jane's life, but I want you to live a while because I'm not going to be here that long. But every day I live, I want to think about you rotting in jail and someday burning in hell. That's nice.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Burn in hell.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Then she said, why didn't he just go and live in his scummy little dungeon life and leave my daughter and grandchildren alone? Why did it have to come to that? Why couldn't he just live in his own jizz puddle and be happy with that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

A scumbag in your little basement.

[James Petregallo]

Bob speaks. He said he denies everything. He talks about his community service and all that kind of shit that he wants added to the record. My community service, I want that in the record and all that kind of shit. Then he said, I had absolutely nothing to do with my wife's death. I love my Jane dearly. I will appeal this until I can appeal no more.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a dum. Dummy.

[James Petregallo]

The judge says your main slave, your wife, who bore your two beautiful children, was required to work 12 hour days. I think she wanted to work. She liked her job.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She did. Yeah, but she needed to, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but I mean, that's like saying that would be like someone saying a salary. You force him to make all these podcasts. These are my idea. I wanted to do you know what I mean? No one's forcing me to do anything. And after 20 years, required to return to the workforce to maintain a fantasy life. You were allowed to live. You believed you were smarter than God. Your love was a cancer. You were not a provider. You were a predator. You lived in two worlds. Light your family Community, friends and darkness. Where your lies were your truth and your truth was a lie. I have no mercy for you. You don't want to hear that from a judge before they pronounce sentence. They say an idle mind is the devil's workshop. While your main slave was required to work these days, you were free to. I'm sorry. You were allowed to live and sharpen your manipulative skills by being involved in the BDM lifestyle. You are a master of manipulation. You, sir, get the gavel for that may. Fuck off. Okay, count one, premeditated murder, life without parole. Okay, count two, life. Count three, solicitation, 18 to 40 years. Obstruction, one to five years, witness intimidation, two to 10 years. Years. All to run concurrent with the life without sentence, which all, by the way, I think it's consecutive to his original 20 years for the Joe Gensler.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

So once he deals with that, I think it starts. He's in a lot of shit right now. He's in a lot of trouble. And it's even better. In 2016, his dungeon burned down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was too dingy.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. I guess there was a big fire in the building and as part of the repairs, the basement had to be demolished and all of that destroyed. 2016, he files something with newly discovered evidence, which is Joe Gentz retracting and recanting his entire account of everything. Yep. He wants out of it. He says my Testimonial statements against Mr. Robert Bashara were the product of coercion and subordination of perjury from the police.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said that's that. That's what he says. So there's a post conviction hearing and all sorts of shit. Before Gentz took the stand, the judge said, this isn't a game. I have no control over what the prosecutor's office does anyway. They go back and forth about garbage. Then he says after that, he says that he signed an affidavit not believing the not knowing the contents. He said, quote, I never read what I signed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, come on.

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's a guy. I was gonna say, how dumb are you? That's 67. That's about how dumb you are. Pretty dumb. Yeah, pretty dumb. He said, I had nothing to do with this affidavit. So this is, by the way, the affidavit that's now exposing him to fresh charges because he's lied. The Detroit, per CBS Detroit. He said he described a scene where he said Bob asked him to come over to move boxes. They were arguing, Bob and Jay, in the garage. And she Told him to get his shit out of the garage. And Bob handed him the gun. And he said, I broke her neck. I'll be honest. I did do it. That's what he said. So that's how it goes. And he says that in court, too. He says basically that he doesn't think he'll last 15 years in prison. So he said, if someone sticks you with a homemade shank, you're dead.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's over.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So basically he said, I'm not do. I'm one out of this. I just want to say I killed her ball by myself and have that be the. Today. Bob. During this hearing, he testifies and he talked about the S and M in great detail and told the court that he was different from other men in the lifestyle because he helped out. He helped one of his former submissives get a job. Because I'm different. He also described the press as a brood of vipers that tainted his image as a philanthropist.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Vipers.

[James Petregallo]

Brood of vipers that ruined my image. So, anyway, he also appeals based on the missing clothes, the polygraph leak, and all this type of shit. Ineffective assistance of counsel, the gun in the safety deposit box. It gets denied. His old lawyer said he had a fair trial. It was over and above what's given to most defendants. Justice was fairly meted out in this case. Bob Bashara always thinks he's the smartest person in the room. That is absolutely fucking right. It goes all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court. They deny his leave to appeal as well. And Jane's great aunt said that ought to take the wind out of his sails. Maybe now he'll just relax and enjoy his time in prison. Shut the fuck up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Relax.

[James Petregallo]

That's what she just said. Hey, settle down, dick face. Enjoy prison. I like Jane's great aunt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe you could find somebody to spank in there. Shut up.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure there's somebody tries a federal habeas thing in 2019. That was still pending on August 17, 2020. He'd been moved around the system a lot, all over the place. He ended up in Woodland Center Correctional Facility in Whitmore Lake, Michigan, where he developed liver problems. And he was hospitalized for a little bit. And then on August 17th, he dies. Hey, he's dead. Hey, fuck him. Hey. See what I mean? Doesn't that feel great that he's dead? Who cares? I don't care if he's. He was in there for a day

[Jimmy Whisman]

or two, he's dead.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yep. Never got to spank another person.

[James Petregallo]

Never. Jane's sister said, I'm only disappointed. I'm disappointed. He only spent eight years in prison. That is just not long enough for all that he ruined. That's true. The family started something called Turning Point, which can be confused with other things. Headquartered in Mount Clemens, donations in Jane's name followed for like, help people with things. It's domestic violence organization to help women. There's two books here, by the way. Steve Miller's Murder and Grosse Point Privilege, Adultery and the Killing of Jane Bashar. That's why I didn't give you the name up front of the book. And then there is another one here. Where is that? Oh, by the way, he told that Bob told that author. I'm sure you'll find out when you dig that. I didn't do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Did he find it?

[James Petregallo]

He said he sure as fuck did it. After more research, the second book was George Hunter and Lynn Rosenthal's the Sadist, the Hitman and the Murder of Jane Bashara.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, that was in 2018. And that's it. So Joe Gentz continues to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He lives in jail.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he lives in jail. One of the authors said sex, lies, betrayal and death. That's something we'll always be interested in as a society.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's true. True.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's true. So there you go, everybody. There's Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan, and a fucking crazy story of wild shit there. We'll go through the end quick here because we're running pretty late. So definitely head over to. Well, number one, head over whatever app you're on. Listening to this on, Give us five stars. Give a thumbs up on Netflix. That shit helps. Thank you for doing that. Definitely Shut up and give me murder.com tickets for live shows. September 18th, Milwaukee at the Pabst. Only a few left for that, so grab that shows the 19th of September in Minneapolis at the State Theater. Get those tickets right goddamn now. Then October 3rd in Dallas and then it goes on from there. So get your tickets right now. Shut upandgivemerder.com follow on social media, smalltownmurder on Instagram, smalltown Pot on Facebook for sure. Get Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. $5 a month or above gets you everything we put out, including hundreds, almost 400 back bonus episodes as soon as you subscribe. New ones every other week. One crime in sports. One small town murder. That includes this week, this week crime and sports theme park disasters don't have to like sports for that. And then for Small Town Murder. There's a poll up, everybody. It's going to be either the Crash, the Mackenzie Scrilla or that whole case or Corey Richards Part 3 With all sorts of new shit that just came out, which is fun as shit either way that the one that you don't

[Jimmy Whisman]

choose, the next one.

[James Petregallo]

Then after both of those it'll be the Prisoner Dating Game. So get in there early and catch up on everything before that comes out. Patreon.com crimeinsports you also get everything we put out ad free and you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best fucking people on earth who put up with our shit and still keep hanging out with us. Give me. Hit me with them. Not gimme them. Hit me with them. Right. Goddamn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This week, executive producer Gary Howard in Brownsville, Tennessee. Evidently that's where Tina Turner was born. I didn't know that.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, congrats on the new grandkid too, Gary. Gorgeous. Enjoy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sharon Petrarca. Petrarca? That's a tough name to say. David Riggs. I know him.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you. David Riggs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Deanne Price. Ah, she put her pup Dobby down. That's a no good. Thank you all so much for being a part of this. We appreciate it. Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows, Penny Boyce. Happy hours in Eagle Mountain, Utah. Where the fuck that is. Janice Hill, Casey Mihilik Mihalic. Justin Glenn Thomas Sr. Demented with no last name. I think that's my grandmother. Spencer M. Katie Ko. Lee Shell, Shannon Thomas, Margie Holly or Haley. I believe it's Hale, I don't know. Misty Siegel Seagal, perhaps. Christopher Metz. Jeff Kroll, Patrick Weir. Megan would know the last name. Ellie Mettler.

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jonathan Shepard, Kristen Kindle, Stephen Cooley, Katherine C. Kiara Holland, Stacy Howell. Lauren Cobb, Ryan Miller, Jennifer Linciani, Lean Lanciani. Nicole Ventura. Kennedy Van Kennedy Anderson. Melanie Landers, TVO German with no last name. Casey. Guy. Michelle with no last name. Nikki B. Michelle M. Douglas Daniels, Randall Busby. Sassy One. Heidi Hart. Casey. No, that's Christine with no last name. Kristen Nordland, Nick Healy, Molly Langston, Laura Galloway. Stephen with no last name. Nikki Os. Sean with no last name. Jenna Griffith. Madeline Her. Tiffany Lowe. Haley Overall. Michelle. No, that's Michael. Michael Handy. And Amber Oral. No. Amber Huffman. Bray. Mike Tillery, Karen Whitcop. Carissa with no last name. Tyler Whalen. Wallen. No, it's Tyler Wallen. That sounds like Morgan's brother, but it's spelled way different. Good.

[James Petregallo]

For you, Tyler.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Lizzie Norton, Sherry Starlin, Don Pfeiffer. Delia. Delia. Delia Hunt. Delia Hunt. That's probably what it is. Mary with no last name. Mark with no last name. Sally Piper, Dave DePipa, Jessica Harris, Dulce Dolce Hall, Nicole McDonald, Kyle Landry, Melissa Has Hessel, Elsa Williams, Gabriella. Gabriella Howard, Michael McCall, Michael Rabinous McCall. McHale, perhaps Winona. Kushal Allen with no last name. Alva Hind, Keith Greenwall, Katrina Gonzalez, Alexa with no last name. Sierra Bircham, Katherine Vogel, Andrea andra. Andra. Andra McCowan. CJM 15. That's easy. Christine Hansen, Anna Anina. Wow. With two I's. Nick Hallinger, Christy Owens, Benjamin Freeman, Eric C. Melissa Vaughn, Stacy Garrett Purcella, Amber with no last name. Shell soberg, Emily M. Mr. Moose Village 5000. Devin. Devin Costello, Adam Brasher, Angela Foley, Rhiannon Dapiro, Kate with no last name. Becca Brown, Bonnie Hafner, Theodore and Eleanor Desmoor. How do all of your names rhyme? Kelly with no last name. Ellie Gold, Chrissy with no last name. Logan Plummer, Kristin Kirsten, Kirsten Riley, Jake Cofield, Aaron German, Zion Nichols, Kristen Garrett, Maria with no last name. Aj, Reuter or Reuter. John Jansen, Jonna with no last name. April Lee, Alice Deher, Ellie Hunt, Stephanie Sheehan, Sarah Bailey, Jonna with no last name. Dennis Kasich Jr, Eleanora Serrano. And all of our patrons. You guys are the best.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You fucking people are awesome and you're always very cool to us. If you want to. Thank you. If you want to follow us on social media or do anything else, shut upandgivemerder.com is the way to find all that shit. Follow us. Keep coming back, keep hanging out. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bye.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Listening to Small Town Murder out there. Hi. Hello. Good to see you out there. I'm here with Jimmy, too. And this is an ad, but not an ad for a product. This is an ad for tour dates. Yes. Come see a live show. The 2026 Tour. All the tickets are for sale right now. Starting out with February 21st in Nashville, March 6th in Durham, March 7th in Atlanta. Phoenix is sold out. We do have tickets to to your stupid opinions. On the 21st of March. Salt Lake City, sold out. Denver has tickets. Be there on May 2nd. May 29th, Buffalo sold out. Royal Oak, Michigan. May 30th. We have September 18th, Milwaukee, September 19th, Minneapolis, October 3rd in Dallas, October 16th in San Jose. October 17th in Sacramento, November 13th in Tarrytown. November 14th in Boston. Come see us. The live shows are spectacular. Come join all of the other STM people. You're going to meet so many people. You're going to have fun. Make some new friends like crazy and make some new friends. Come out and see us. Shutupandgivemerder.com is where you go for those tickets. Get them right now while they're hot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

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