#539 - Human Snakes - New Florence, Missouri

Summary

Small Town Murder Episode #539: Human Snakes – New Florence, Missouri

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmy Whisman

---

Introduction

In Episode #539 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman delve into the mysterious and tragic case of Ben Renick, an exotic reptile dealer from New Florence, Missouri. This episode unravels the unsettling events leading to Ben’s untimely death, initially suspected to involve his own snakes, and the subsequent investigation that uncovers deeper familial and financial intrigues.

---

Background

The Renick Family

Ben Renick was a prominent figure in the reptile breeding community, running Rennick Reptiles and specializing in designer pythons and other exotic snakes. Born in 1987, Ben grew up on a sprawling 72-acre farm in Montgomery County, Missouri. His father, Frank Renick, was a successful entrepreneur who owned Spectrum Pet Care and formerly owned the Bow Wow Dog Food Company, which was sold to ConAgra. However, in 2011, Frank was indicted for selling unregistered securities and embezzling over $7 million from investors. Facing prosecution, Frank tragically ended his own life by suicide, leaving Ben and his younger brother, Sam Renick, to navigate the aftermath.

Ben's Reptile Business

Ben’s passion for snakes began at a young age, leading him to become a respected snake breeder. His business thrived, catering to a niche market that saw his exotic breeds fetch high prices, some even exceeding $100,000. Ben was known for his meticulous record-keeping and his ability to create unique color combinations and patterns through cross-breeding, earning him the title of a "snake rock star" within the reptile community.

---

The Murder

Initial Discovery [29:01]

On June 8, 2017, Lindley Renick, Ben’s wife, discovered him dead at his reptile breeding center. The initial fear was that one of his enormous snakes might have been responsible for his death, given the presence of thousands of exotic reptiles in his facility. [29:01] Sam Renick stated, “It must have been a snake,” reflecting the immediate suspicion towards Ben’s own creatures.

Investigation Shifts [30:00]

However, as the Missouri State Highway Patrol delved deeper, evidence began to contradict the snake attack theory. Shell casings were found beneath Ben’s body, indicating he had been shot multiple times. The coroner confirmed that Ben was killed by gunfire, not by a snake. [30:36] Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad): "Where's your snake? Ben was murdered, and it wasn’t a snake."

---

The Suspects

Sam Renick [93:08]

Ben’s older brother, Sam, became a person of interest early in the investigation. Sam inherited Ben’s stake in the reptile business, leading to tensions over control and financial matters. [93:08] Lindley Renick indicated, “I would look at him,” suggesting possible friction between the brothers regarding the estate and business.

Lindley Renick [37:22]

Lindley, a massage therapist and Ben’s wife, had a complex personal life marked by multiple affairs. Her relationships prior to and following Ben’s imprisonment for a severe car accident amplified suspicions about her motives. [37:22] James Pietragallo: "She threw up for it," highlighting the strain in her personal life.

Michael Humphrey [43:04]

Michael Humphrey, a drug dealer and Lindley’s ex-boyfriend, played a pivotal role in the unfolding events. Lindley reconnected with Michael, who later testified against her, claiming she orchestrated the murder together. His cooperation with authorities was instrumental in uncovering the truth. [43:04] Michael Humphrey: "Did you think about it the same way? He thought it was just sex,"

Ashley Shaw [132:43]

Ashley Shaw, Lindley’s coworker and spa manager, was implicated in the murder plot. Ashley received prosecutorial immunity in exchange for her testimony, revealing that she assisted Lindley in poisoning Ben with Percocet-laced shakes before ultimately aiding in the shooting cover-up. [132:43] Ashley Shaw: "We did it," confirming her involvement.

---

The Trial

Prosecution's Case [136:06]

The prosecution painted Lindley Renick as a cold-blooded murderer driven by financial desperation and personal vendettas. They presented evidence of her affairs, financial troubles, and meticulous planning to eliminate Ben to gain control over the business and estate. [136:06] Prosecutor: "All she's done is deflect and lie throughout the investigation," emphasizing her manipulative behavior.

Defense's Case [140:15]

Lindley’s defense argued that she was a victim of circumstances, dealing with an abusive marriage and mental trauma. They attempted to shift blame onto Michael Humphrey, suggesting that he acted independently and that Lindley was not the primary orchestrator. However, evidence and testimonies from Ashley Shaw and Michael Humphrey undermined this defense. [140:15] Defense Attorney: "She is not planning a murder; she's planning a divorce."

Verdict and Sentencing [163:52]

After deliberating for 12 hours, the jury convicted Lindley Renick of second-degree murder, sentencing her to 16 years in prison—far less than the life without parole she might have expected for first-degree murder. The judge expressed frustration, noting the inadequacy of her sentence given the severity of her actions. [163:52] Judge: "You're awfully lucky, ma'am. You just..."

---

Aftermath

Appeals and Legal Actions [175:26]

Both Michael Humphrey and Lindley Renick pursued appeals. Humphrey’s appeal focused on the admissibility of Brandon Blackwell’s testimony, arguing it was hearsay and improperly influenced Lindley’s conviction. Lindley initiated a lawsuit against her ex-boyfriend Brandon Blackwell, accusing him of making false statements that led to her wrongful imprisonment and loss of custody over her children. This lawsuit aimed to hold Blackwell accountable and seek damages for defamation.

Community Impact [65:44]

Ben Renick’s death had a profound impact on the local community and the reptile breeding industry. Friends and industry peers mourned his loss, establishing a snake breed named after him—Renick Ghost—as a tribute to his legacy. [65:44] Dave Kaufman: "He made a new breed of snake, Dave, the ultimate snake man."

Financial and Personal Consequences [169:34]

The financial fallout from the case was significant. Lindley sold the family farm and Ben’s reptile business for $740,000, which caused further rifts within the family. Sam Renick grappled with the loss of both his parents and brother, as well as the management of the farm and its associated financial burdens.

---

Conclusion

The tragic case of Ben Renick in New Florence, Missouri, serves as a chilling reminder of how personal vendettas and financial desperation can culminate in heinous crimes, even in seemingly quiet small towns. Through meticulous research and engaging storytelling, Small Town Murder Episode #539 exposes the dark undercurrents that lie beneath the surface of familial relationships and business dealings, ultimately delivering a narrative that is as insightful as it is sobering.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sam Renick [28:46]: “It must have been a snake.”
• Ashley Shaw [132:43]: “We did it.”
• Prosecutor [136:06]: “All she's done is deflect and lie throughout the investigation.”
• Judge [163:52]: “You're awfully lucky, ma'am. You just...”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Small Town Murder masterfully intertwines true crime with deep research and storytelling, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the complexities involved in the Ben Renick case. For those intrigued by the interplay of personal relationships, financial motives, and the pursuit of justice, this episode is a compelling listen.

---

If you enjoyed this summary, consider subscribing to Small Town Murder for more in-depth explorations of true crime stories from small towns across America.

Transcript

[James Petrigallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of my favorite things in the world. Audible.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, audible.com or the app.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, I give that app a workout. Let me tell you something. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. You can listen to anything. There's so many genres on there. There's more to imagine when you listen. And let me tell you something that makes my imagination soar in a terrible way. I've been listening to Secrets in the Cellar.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petrigallo]

Which is by John Glatt, and it's about Joseph Fritzl and locking his daughter in the basement for decades. And as you want to talk about imagination of who's the devil in a human skin? That's the guy. So check that out. Or a whole bunch of them. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. Audible's the best. Let's be honest here. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com smalltownmurder or text small town murder to 500. 500. That's audible.com small town murder. Or text small town murder to 500. Five hundred.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petrigallo]

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Shutterfly. Reconnecting with the people in your life is so important, and sending a holiday card is a meaningful way to do that. But it could be hard to know where to start. Who knows? Shutterfly makes it easy to share custom cards that are perfectly you. I already know what I'm doing here. Yeah, yeah. Why not? We'll put the puppies on the cards this year. That's what we're doing with Shutterfly. Sen. Everybody likes pictures of the dogs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure do.

[James Petrigallo]

Find the perfect holiday card for [e-mail] and start customizing today. Enjoy. 40% off your Shutterfly order with the promo code Small Town. And send something meaningful this year. Get free shipping on qualified orders. See site for details.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petrigallo]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless. 30. 30. Biddy. Get 30. Get 20. 20. 20. Better get 20. 20. Better get 15.

[Jimmy Wisman]

15. 15.

[James Petrigallo]

15. Just 15 bucks a month. Sold. Give it a [e-mail] Switch. $45 upfront payment, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Only taxes and fees. Extra speed slower above 40G detail.

[James Petrigallo]

This week in New Florence, Missouri, an exotic reptile dealer is found dead. And it's assumed that one of his enormous snakes is the culprit until an investigation reveals the lies of some much slimier people in his life. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

[James Petrigallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy adventure known as Small Town Murder. We have a crazy story. If you listen to the intro, you know that there's snakes and weird stuff going on. Very crazy story. Before we get to that, do want to say head over to shut up and give me murder dot com.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Get your tickets for live shows. Austin, you are up next in November. Austin, Texas, Phoenix is sold out. So that's not going to happen there. And Tarrytown, we understand that when you go to buy the tickets, it says they're sold out. There's like 100 tickets that they've been holding. We're going to release those and then you can buy them and then that'll sell out because I know we've had a lot of people saying that. Let's get that going. And also October 30th, virtual live show. Oh, baby. Just like a regular live show except you are wherever you feel like being that has Internet on this planet. And we will be in costumes because it's Halloween. So we're gonna have a lot of fun. Can't wait for you to see these costumes. They are wild. So it's gonna be good. It's a current event, we'll say, and it's fun. So we can't wait to show you all of that. That is shut up. @givememurder.com you go there for everything. Patreon.com crime and sports is where you get all the bonus material. And that is anybody $5 a month or above, you get hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard immediately new ones every other week. One crime in sports. One small town murder. You get it all. You get it all. That's right. And you should listen to crime in sports, by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Give that a shot.

[James Petrigallo]

Give that a shot. Yeah, we've had some wild stuff lately. Really good. Check it out. And, and also we had an ax murderer. We had a guy known as the Lizzie Borden of baseball A couple weeks ago. And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about the. Finish up the 1976 Ted Bundy psychological examination to determine if he's a violent person or not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I wonder.

[James Petrigallo]

Spoiler alert. He is. Just so you know. Check that all out. That is patreon.com crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. Jimmy will mispronounce your name. He'd love to get it right, but it's probably not gonna happen. Yes, in addition to that, when you're listening to crime and sports, then when that's done, switch over to your stupid opinions and give that a listen. We have a special Halloween edition here that's gonna be very funny with a haunted house and all this good stuff. So can't wait for all of that. That said, disclaimer time. You're listening to a comedy show, everybody. Now, the murder part is 100% real. There's no anything, you know, no details being made up to make it funnier or anything like that. It's just we feel that a murder story is told a little easier with a few jokes mixed in there. That's all it is. Otherwise it's a little too dark for us and it becomes a little weird. So, yeah, lighten the mood a little bit. But you gotta know what to make fun of. And we do. That's the thing. What you do is you never make fun of the victim or the victim's family.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why would you say that?

[James Petrigallo]

Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. See, that's how that works. So that sounds good. It's very easy to do. I don't know why people can't figure it out of how that works. But oh well, if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear one crazy ass story. If you think true crime and comedy should never ever, ever go together, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you're in the wrong place. Maybe. Give it a shot though, because it might not be what you think. And you don't know. What we're mainly saying is no complaining later. So there you go. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybod.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay?

[James Petrigallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let's. Let's do that.

[James Petrigallo]

Let's do it. We are going. Well, we just got back from there, but we're Going back again to Missouri. Here we go. We just did a Kansas City live show. Thank you. Kansas City and Oklahoma City. Terrific people, very wonderful audiences, and we just had a blast. Thank you guys so much for coming out and filling those theaters up. Thank you. Great stuff. We are going to New Florence, Missouri. New Florence, Old Florence. Nobody wants that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's in Italy.

[James Petrigallo]

This is New Florence. Yeah, we know East Central Missouri, where I assume people from the old Florence said, let's put a New Florence. Is there any room in East Central Missouri? Okay, let's start it up here. It's about an hour 15 to St. Louis, about 2 hours and 40 minutes to Kansas City. So it's right in the middle of those two. We've driven that path. Yeah, we've passed by the exit for this place, I'm sure. And it's about 3 hours and 45 minutes to Tallapoosa, Missouri, which is our last Missouri episode. Too many Knots Tied. That was a messed up episode with a. I don't even want to get into it because it'll take me forever, but it's a crazy episode. Check it out. This is in Montgomery county area code 573. The motto here is. They're really digging deep for this one. The crossroads of East Central Missouri. I didn't know we needed a crossroads for bland. The middle of nowhere. It's the middle of nowhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. There's a crossroads in east and one in Central. This is East Central.

[James Petrigallo]

East Central Missouri. Very specific crossroads we got here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really qualifying the motherfuck out of it.

[James Petrigallo]

Not that. No, no, no. Go past that crossroads. You're going to find about three crossroads before you hit this crossroads that we're talking about here. East Central Missouri. History of this town. It was first named Florence. Not for the town, not for the city in Italy, but for Florence Lewis, who was the daughter of the first settler. Yeah, he came in, she popped out and he was like, I'm a name, a baby and my town Florence. Everybody's Florence now. I love it. The post office for New Florence has been in operation since 1858. So there's been people here for a long time. Matter of fact, they found evidence of human habitation here from 10,000 years ago. So people have been here for a long time. They did a big archaeological excavation at Graham Cave and the river down near there and found.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's what I was saying.

[James Petrigallo]

It's probably.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's gotta be close to the Missouri. Anything near the Missouri. People have been there for thousands and thousands.

[James Petrigallo]

The difference is, though, thousands and Thousands of years ago. Sometimes rivers and creeks have different paths.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, there were different places.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, they're different. Not like the Mississippi, but like smaller tributaries.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Even the Missip. I'm sure there was. There's turns that it made that it didn't make before.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I mean, just shifts and things like that. This area is commonly associated with German founded towns here established by immigrants. They had a town called Rinland. So Rinland is. I mean there couldn't be more on the nose than that. We're German is what that says.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Might as well be called. Be called a beerville. You know, it's with an eye. That's established by immigrants in the mid 19th century. But also a lot of people came here from Kentucky and Virginia. Oh yes. This is like they're going on the Oregon Trail. We're heading west, everybody. And they're like, this is about far enough east central Missouri. The wagon tongue done broke. We're here. That's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're out of food.

[James Petrigallo]

So the southern part of the county is more closely associated with the German immigrant type people. And the northern part is more associated with what they call Missouri's Little Dixie region.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is that?

[James Petrigallo]

Earning Montgomery county the nickname Gateway to Little Dixie. It means a little piece of the south right here in Missouri for you is what that means.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's. That's frightening.

[James Petrigallo]

A little bit. Now some reviews of this town. Here we go. There are no reviews of this town. It's a very small town. But the only thing in this town I did find a review of. And that's the Loves Travel Stop store.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

This is. If you don't know, if you're not from the United States, a big giant truck stop store. If you're on the highway, there's a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Subway and a DQ there.

[James Petrigallo]

We stopped at it and had a few cheeseburgers. That is there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is their chains that they marry together across that section of the country.

[James Petrigallo]

Dairy Queen and Subway hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. So 4.3 stars. It has here this loves, which isn't bad actually. It's on 482 Tree Farm Road in New Florence. Open 24 7. Gas price is pretty affordable right now. Premium's only 350, so not bad. So here is a review from Mom. Well, mom, tell me all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tell me all.

[James Petrigallo]

Four stars. Very clean and well stocked. There's no easy way to open the bathroom door if you're in a wheelchair. Well, that's a problem that they need those buttons. The truth for all of them for any bathroom door.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Dog park is small but sufficient. More than half of it is grass. During our September trip there will be shade in a few years when the tree grows more. The tree. There's one small. The tree grows more. But a bench would be nice. Yeah, that would be nice. You can sit while your dog sleep right in the shade under the tree. The shade of the tree. Next up, five stars. These new Loves are outstanding.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is a new one.

[James Petrigallo]

A new one apparently. Roomy and clean bathrooms. The whole place feels so open with their new layouts. Friendly staff too, right? They're just happy to see people. They're in the middle of nowhere. There's. There's also a small fence dog park. The turn off to the parking lot from the highway off ramp is quick so watch out for that. And then one star here from Whitney. Highly irritated that every Loves we have stopped at across Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri do not sell 12, 15 or 18 packs of soda. They expect you to buy 20 ounce sodas. Get what the program loves.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You haven't found a Walmart in that track.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm trying to put one of those helmets on and put two cans in it and you guys are messing the whole damn thing up for me. Don't you know how these people roll? Yeah, they never passed a Walmart superstore, nothing like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How many states did they say? Three.

[James Petrigallo]

Three states?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They can't find a 12 pack of soda. Only 20.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You blinked in Ms. Topeka, you would have found it.

[James Petrigallo]

I promise. One star from April. Ever since this gas station has opened up has opened us residents that live off Highway 19 have had our properties damaged because the Loves refuses to put up directional signs into their gas for car and semi truck drivers to follow. They pass up the entrance and quickly find any private driveway to turn around and it's caused 18 wheelers. That's not great. It's causing so much damage to our properties. And today I was almost ran over by a foreigner truck driver on my own property. I wasn't even in his country. This has to stop the Loves.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, we got too many dumb people if you can't see the gas station. Yeah, signs aren't helping.

[James Petrigallo]

No, but those some of them have the long kind of road off the high. It's not just turn on into it. There's a long road and apparently there's no signs telling you which lane to take and you end up in a neighborhood which I would think why have an off ramp going one way to the Loves parking lot the next Way to a neighborhood that doesn't seem right. Right. But I don't know. They say because this has to stop because of this gas station. It has caused several accidents on our highway. I wouldn't visit this gas station if it was the only gas station with within 20 miles. And I was about to run out of gas. I will walk for gas, push my truck. Holy shit. The bathrooms are disgusting. And parking lots are just as dirty. If you live right there, why would you use that bathroom?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, why have you used that?

[James Petrigallo]

Why would you use a bathroom that's 50ft from your house when you have a bathroom in your house? Okay, never mind that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Have you ever been in the bathroom at stores?

[James Petrigallo]

No. You know why? Because I live down the goddamn street. I thought about it. I'm like, nope. Been in there 700 times. Never once. I don't even know if they have a bathroom, to be honest with you. Cause I've never even asked. They must, but I don't know. I don't even. I've never crossed my mind. If I had to pee, I'm like, I'm gonna drive the quarter mile to my house and pee. So people in this town, 859.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Very small.

[James Petrigallo]

It's a crossroads. And that's about it. More male than female, which is strange. About 52% male. Median age here is just above the national average, but not too far off. It's 41 the children. There's a lot of 0 to 4 year olds and a lot of 60 to 64 year olds. So people stay fertile a long time. In Missouri, it's just a lot of grandmas popping kids out here. Apparently family here, it's a little more over the national average. For marriage, it's about 53% married. A few more people are single with children, but the stats are pretty normal for the rest of the country. Racial breakdown here, 90.8% white, 0.7% black, 1.1% Asian, 6.6% Hispanic. And let's see here we have cost of living. 100 is regular. In the rest of the country average here it is 77 out of that. So that's not too bad. Here I would say median home cost $150,900. They're fired.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're giving it away.

[James Petrigallo]

They're extremely affordable. Yes, that's the thing. But the problem is you have to use the bathroom at the loves. That's part of it. No bathrooms.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So if we've convinced you, damn it. You want to live by a truck stop and not much Else we have for you, the new Florence, Missouri real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here goes for $810, which is about a third under the national average. That's pretty, pretty cheap. This one here, it's on.27 acres of land. There is an RV on the property that looks like it was parked there in 1972 and allowed to return to nature. That's just. There's definitely animals in there, like a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Quarter of an acre. And they've got an RV on the property too.

[James Petrigallo]

They said the van. There's a van on the property. And it just looks like a little meth van. Like that's where we cook our meth and that's it. They say Pinnacle Lake. This is the ad here. Pinnacle Lake. Wooded lot on a cul de sac street near. Very close to the north gate entrance. The property lays. Rolling sloping would make a great camping lot. In other words, it'd be a pain in the ass to build a house here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're going to have to level this motherfucker.

[James Petrigallo]

Order older electric service on property. Unsure of condition. Old camper. Old camper of no value. So just, it's basically, we're going to sell you this with garbage on it that you need to clean off.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, we're going to. We're going to sell you something that's going to cost you money to get rid of it.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, this whole thing, 8,500 bucks. Under nine grand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Yeah. And probably a grand to get rid of that fucking can.

[James Petrigallo]

Someone's got to haul it off. Yeah. Then there's a four bedroom, two bath, actual structure. 1832 square feet. It's on 4.42 acres. So that's a pretty big lot here. Big deck on the front. Real weird though. It's yellow. The house is like a pale yellow with like weird red accents on it. It's an ugly ass house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who would do that?

[James Petrigallo]

You have really got to paint this house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a McDonald's.

[James Petrigallo]

It's so ugly. But 269,900 bucks for a big house on a big lot. That's not too bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And a few five gallon pails of paint.

[James Petrigallo]

You're gonna need that. Yeah, you're gonna have to definitely hit up a Home depot on that one here. So here is a five bedroom, three bath, 3200 square feet.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now you're talking.

[James Petrigallo]

It's a nice house. It just looks like a nice house. Inside everything looks like it was done in about 2012 and everything's in very nice condition. It's on 17.90 acres. Almost 18. Big old property. 559,900 bucks. Not bad. Wow. Big house, big lot. Not too shabby. That's pretty good stuff here. Things to do. Oh, baby. The Missouri Goat Festival is here, finally. I've been wondering when it was. I mean, we go every year. I don't know how I'm gonna. The fuck do they do goat festival here? Oh, they diddle them, they pet them, they kiss them. It's pictures of people hugging goats and eating food is what it looks like. Hopefully not goats.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Could you imagine?

[James Petrigallo]

He's a cute little guy. Let's eat him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Eating a gyro right in his face.

[James Petrigallo]

Right. Take that. That's right. Exactly. You better watch your behavior here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So experience the joy of spending a day with your goat at a unique fall festival. Do you have to bring your own goat? Is this, like. It sounds like BYOB or BYOG activity we got going on here? Like, they don't have goats, provided you can't rent a goat for the day to hang out with. No, rent a goat. You don't have that. Enjoy live music, delicious food, and fun activities for both goats and humans.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

How the fuck do you tell if a goat's having fun? They seem to just eat cans and shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know if they're jumping around.

[James Petrigallo]

They always look like they're having a good time. I mean, they do. They really do. Activities, costume contests. I hope not for the goats. Yeah, Goat parades.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And more demonstrations of goat milking, cheese making, and soap making.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This place is exciting how the goat.

[James Petrigallo]

Stuff there is live entertainment, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. What is that?

[James Petrigallo]

We have Vernon Kohlbush. K O H L B U S C H. Cole Bush. Vernon Cole Bush. We also have Posey Hill performing. And then by the looks of it, because her pictures on here, I believe the headliner is Ruby Lee.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

That just shows the back of her head with a super fringy, like,'70s Dolly Parton jacket that says Ruby Lee in stitching on the back.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She got an embroidered.

[James Petrigallo]

It's embroidered as shit. And there's like little flowery things around it. Super important.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Invested in some Etsy jacket. That's great.

[James Petrigallo]

She definitely did. Either that or her. Someone's very crafty in her family.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There might be that.

[James Petrigallo]

That's it. Then there's also the Montgomery County Fair, 77th year with the same theme, by the way. They said that is where small town charm meets big time fun. Big time, big time fun. Not big town. Fun, Big time Fun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Small town. Big time.

[James Petrigallo]

That's right. We have lots of amazing. There's entries in the quilt contest. You got to get those in the heart. Household arts contest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why not?

[James Petrigallo]

I didn't know that was a thing. We have the summer games and the livestock arena. I think that is an animal Olympics if I'm not mistaken. We have a little Mr. And Ms. Contest. Of course. The queen of the fair. You got to see who's the queen of the fair, obviously.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, if we're going to judge the little tykes, why not judge the gals that can take it too?

[James Petrigallo]

Dino encounters.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Apparently they have dinosaurs here. That's gonna be interesting. A livestock judging contest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

So that doesn't sound like the livestock are having the contest. It sounds like the judges are livestock. No. Yeah, like they're gonna judge you on your livestock judging. You judge the livestock and then people judge your judging. I think is how that works.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tell you whether or not you did a good job.

[James Petrigallo]

He doesn't like us. Shit. The super farmer will be there at 8:00. Oh, that's a band I think, by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, it's not just a guy in a cape.

[James Petrigallo]

That I'm the best. He shows up with like an ear of corn the size of a goat. There's also Mikey. I'm sorry. Mickey Scott will be performing at the beer tent stage.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I know what he does.

[James Petrigallo]

I bet I have an idea of what he's doing. There's a junior poultry show, a junior rabbit show, a junior goat show, a junior sheep show, a junior market steer show, a junior hog show, a bail throwing contest. Strong ass farm farm people in there on that. A kids foam party. Which sounds like it's going to get out of control and horny and weird. I don't like that at all. The kids are going to have their dicks out after a while. That's no good. You don't want that. Mickey Scott's going to take the stage for a second night.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh yeah, get after him, Mickey.

[James Petrigallo]

Third night you're going to. You got Chloe Hoker playing live music. So once Chloe's in there, everything comes together. I feel like. And then Friday and Saturday, the weekend, obviously the big days here. The sheep and goat open show. You gotta have that. That's a big one. They're gonna have karaoke, laser tag. This. There is nothing that this festival doesn't have. Basically everything from laser tag to goat petting, it's just they don't give a shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Karaoke I like, you know, I Want to watch children judge animals? There's a. There's a boy on, like, Instagram, whatever, that is really great at talking about tractors. And, like, he knows him, so he's amazing. I love that kid. I'd watch him tell me all about goats.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't want to hear that fucking kid. Listen, you little fucking train. I love drone weirdo.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's so, so fucking boring.

[James Petrigallo]

That kid's a creepy. I'm sorry. That kids are fucking creep.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He knows every deer, man.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, he's going to. I don't trust that kid as far as I can throw him. He's weird. He's weird. I don't like him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I love listening. Talk about John Deere. The fucking weirdest thing to see him.

[James Petrigallo]

I just want to. I want to free him. I want to free him. Stop being your little fucking dad's drone robot. Go get something yourself. I want to, like, give him, like, a punk album or something. Like, he needs. He needs to get the fuck out of the farm for one day just to expand his horizons. Because in his mind, all there is in the world is tractors, and that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is all he is, is a Xerox copy of the grownup that shot his load in his mom. That's it.

[James Petrigallo]

That's all it is. Here in this show, they have a diaper derby that's following the baby show. I don't like that at all. Then we have Cricket Alley performing live music. Also Mack Watts, Kaylee Green, and Caleb Austin.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Performing. And Russo and Co. Is there all your fans? Sure.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Last one of them do country.

[James Petrigallo]

I can't imagine there's going to be a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's. There's nothing else.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm. I'm honestly shocked that Ludacris isn't here because he's at every other county fair we've ever covered.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Or Nelly.

[James Petrigallo]

Or Nelly. One of the two here. You got to have one of the two. Crime rate in this town. What we are interested in here, property crime slightly below the national average, but pretty close to it, actually, for a town of 800 people, it seems a little. A little out of control. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third of the national average, so pretty low, though. Two thirds under the national average, so not bad there. But the property crime, I mean, when you see it. When you see a goat, you just got to take it sometimes, you know? I get it. I get it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They are so cute.

[James Petrigallo]

They're so. You just want to pet their little heads.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I get it thinking once get out of here.

[James Petrigallo]

That's crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I have to take him home and nurse him back.

[James Petrigallo]

That's fucking hilarious. So that said, let's talk about some murder. Here we go, let's do this while my voice holds out. I am extremely ill and have been for a couple days. So I'm happy to be getting through this here, this area of the country. This is what got me, this is what ensickened me is this area of the country right here. So let's start out on June 8, 2017. Uh huh. Okay, June 8, 2017. There's a young lady named Lindley. L, Y, N Lee. Lyn Lee, yeah, that's her name or two. Yeah, Lyn Lee. Okay, so L, E E, it's E.E. so Lindley here, Lindley owns a spa, okay, and where she does massage therapy and stuff like that, that's what she owns here, waxing and all sorts of shit here. Now it's getting to be late afternoon and her husband's supposed to pick the kids up from school or whatever from a babysitter or whatever it is here. So she gets a call at her shot at her spa saying her husband never showed up to pick up the kids. So she's like, God damn it, you know what I mean? Now I gotta leave. Where the hell is he? What's going on here? So she goes and picks up the kids and then she went to where he works, which is his own business as well, to look for him. And this is at about 6:36pm A 911 call comes in with Lindley hysterical on the phone saying that she just found her husband lying in a pool of blood in his place of business. In his place of business at the shop. At the shop. Now the Missouri State Highway Patrolman said, we got the call that there was a man dead. And the dead man's brother arrives at the scene. His name is Sam, the dead man's name is Ben. Sam is the brother who shows up and is Lindley.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that her first and last name?

[James Petrigallo]

No, it's Lindley. Is her first name L, Y, N L, E E first name. Her last name is Renick. Right now she's mad. So married name, so. And this is her husband here and his name is Ben Renick on the ground. So Sam says, my brother's skull was crushed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh no.

[James Petrigallo]

My wildest dreams. I would have never imagined someone would hurt Ben. So with Lindley right there, Sam takes the phone and is talking to 911 and he says, quote, it must have been a Snake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Snake.

[James Petrigallo]

Which even on this show, that's a strange thing to tell 911. But the reason he's saying that is because Ben's place of business is his reptile breeding center, where.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, it's not just a pet shop.

[James Petrigallo]

No. He has thousands of exotic snakes. He has giant, huge pythons and boas that are fucking 10ft long. And I mean, yeah. If you're looking for an exotic, crazy snake, this is your guy right here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

So with all these snakes, they figure a snake got him and crushed him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The shit out of him, must have.

[James Petrigallo]

Coiled up on him and squeezed him till his head popped, is basically what they're thinking. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my.

[James Petrigallo]

He said it had to have been a snake. So the cops come, they're not real comfortable. It's bad enough. I mean, there's a dead body in there. Ew, gross. But there's a shitload of snakes, and they don't know which ones are out there, you know, and they're. Normal people can get out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

These aren't snake people. So there's like. They're like, we're not fucking going in there with all these snakes on the loose. This is crazy shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So one of the cops said it was suspected that it could have been a snake that's loose in the facility, and the facility had somewhere between three and four thousand snakes loose. They don't know. That's what I mean. Maybe. Who knows how many are loose, Whatever he said. So it's a little unnerving not knowing what you're going to walk into. You don't know if there's going to be giant pythons hanging from the rafters hissing in your face. You have no idea what's going on. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about the most safe sponsor there is. SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

SimpliSafe.com S I M P L I. Safe.com.

[James Petrigallo]

That is correct. Jimmy, let's get these people safe. If you've ever worried about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act right now. You can get. This is amazing, 60% off. A new Simplisafe security system. It's their best deal of the year. Simplisafe is the home security that we trust. We've been using it for years. Seven, eight years now. I think we've been used almost eight years. And I loved. We love Simplisafe. So easy to install. Honestly, it's the best. And the price of it it's fantastic. You need it. Trust us here. Simplisafe is offering our listeners exclusive early access to their Black Friday sale this week only you can get 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com Small that's SimpliSafe.com Small S I M P LisaFe.com Small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petrigallo]

All right everybody. Today we're talking about Dr. Squatch. Now you might know this brand from their natural cold processed bar soaps which are all great. They're amazing. If you haven't done it, check those out. But. But now they've got the same real soap formula available in body wash form. And it is good. I'm telling you right now. They're made with natural ingredients derived from coconuts and plant plants to provide all day skin hydration. Available in four unique and manly scents. Coconut Castaway, Pine Tar, Wood Barrel Bourbon and Fresh Falls. Dermatologists tested and clinically proven to provide 24 hour moisturization. So you can still smell tough while taking care of your, maybe your soft side, you know what I mean? Dr. Squatch products are made for men. But we're telling you, these soaps, no matter what and in what form, are loved by all. So you really can't go wrong here, everybody. My favorite by the way is the Fresh Falls. I tried that and I dig it. So what are you waiting for? Go pick one up at your favorite store [e-mail] today. DrSquatch Body Wash for men who prefer natural. So on the body cam of the officers here, because it's 2017, you hear one officer say, quote, I don't care if it's a five inch long snake, if something tries to bite me, I'm gonna light its ass up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm gonna fucking shoot these things.

[James Petrigallo]

This dude was like, I don't give a fuck if it's a garter snake the size of my pinky. I'm shooting it. There will be slugs fired in here. So the other officer, then you hear this officer, same one looking around at the snakes and he just goes, holy shit. Like he's like, this is crazy. And the other officer said something got him, so watch your ass. They're going in like there's like 10 terrorists inside, like back to back with their guns out, like pointing them all around and shit. They're ready to buckshot with all these.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Motherfucking snakes in this motherfucking plane.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm telling you right now, they need Samuel to come help them. So the first responders here, they're like, this is crazy. What are we. What the fuck, man? So the one officer says, who is he? And the second officer. Officer says, ben Renick. And the guy says, oh, okay. And the office. The first officer, he's very way more concerned about the snakes than a corpse at this point. He says, quote, can we make sure there's no snakes around the victim before we go over and take a look at him? That's what he says on the body cam. And the second officer says, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. So this is hilarious. The coroner shows up. They're standing there. They don't just have jimmy. They don't just have their service weapons out. They have shotguns out. They're standing there with shoddies ready to just start fucking bucking. Bucking rounds off at whatever moves.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Spray shots at whatever.

[James Petrigallo]

I know there's bird shot and buckshot. Y'all got any snake shot? I could really use this. I know I need some snake shot. We've come up with it before in the show. So the coroner says. He walks in to this insane scene. This is Dave Colbert. And he says, they're holding shotguns in their hands. There were guns out. You could just feel the anxiety amongst everyone there. Crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can leave.

[James Petrigallo]

I mean, every noise, they're, like, turning around, pointing guns at it. Like, that's serious. So they said, but no one knew, you know, whether this sick fucking killer could be lurking somewhere and pop out and, you know, get all three of them together and squeeze them. Who knows?

[Jimmy Wisman]

And that's the thing about snakes, too, is that people think it doesn't have a rattle. They are so quiet. They're super quiet.

[James Petrigallo]

They're real quiet. They move real deliberately.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Those are assassins, man.

[James Petrigallo]

Also, they're sneaky. I don't know if you've noticed that's a kind of a cliche at this point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's there. Yeah. Snake in the grass.

[James Petrigallo]

Snake in the grass.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They hide.

[James Petrigallo]

So let's find out about who the. What the fuck we are dealing with in this insane scene. Because this is a wild scene, man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, how's it set up?

[James Petrigallo]

Let's see. Let's find out everything. Let's talk about a young lady first. We'll talk about Lindley first here. Her name is Lindley Joe Gallatin. That's her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Lindley Joe.

[James Petrigallo]

Lindley Joe. Which is very Missouri. She's from a small town of Missouri. Or the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Incredibly country.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, the way she puts it, quote, in between two really small towns. That's what she said. Which is Wellsville and Middletown, which are both very small. So she doesn't even live in her town. So much smaller, making it not a town in between. You want to go to town and it's fucking Wellsville that's going to town. So she is Lindley Joe Gallatin. She's born. She's born in 1987. And she grew up with her mom, Brenda, and her dad, Lindell. And she has an older sister named April as well. Growing up in Montgomery County. So around here. In the same county, but not in New Florence. Here she is a cheerleader in high school.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Lindley is.

[James Petrigallo]

Lindley is. Lindley's a very attractive young lady, too. That's the other thing you gotta say. She is a cheerleader in high school. At one point, I think it's her senior year or no, her junior year. She is an all American cheerleader. Oh, I didn't know that. I knew they had all American football players, but apparently the cheerleading squad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I mean, you can certainly let her in that shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. So she got to go to Florida to perform at a college football halftime show. Oh, wow. As part of the All American cheerleader spectacle that they were putting together. She was very into cheerleading. So much so that she even had the requisite eating disorders and depression that comes along with it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure, sure.

[James Petrigallo]

As well. Very into cheerleading, is what I'm saying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She throws up for it.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, she really puts it in there. So. No, she does. As a teenager, she has some eating disorders, some depression, and we're joking around, but I mean, that's. Yeah, that happens to so many.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's dead serious.

[James Petrigallo]

I mean, depression for everybody. But eating disorders, especially for young women, that's a hard thing to overcome.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fit in that uniform, as I say.

[James Petrigallo]

Especially if you spend all of your, you know, not your waking hours, but what you do is in a tiny skirt that might make you a little more, you know, whatever. So her senior year, she didn't even want to go to school her senior year, her mom arranged it. So she only had. Because she only had to get two credits, I guess. So she only had to do two classes. So basically her senior year, her mom arranged that she could just come in after hours and do those two classes and not even have to go to, like, school proper.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When everybody else goes home, she could pop by.

[James Petrigallo]

She comes in and does like a one on one thing with teachers and gets her homework and goes home. And that's that. So she has a boyfriend in high school. Her boyfriend's in a band.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Of course he is.

[James Petrigallo]

Of course he is. Yeah. She. Now Ben, who is the dead snake guy. She meets him in high school. Ben is in the same band with her boyfriend. Ben is the drummer in this band. So. But they didn't go out or anything like that. They just knew each other from the social circle of her, you know, the band and all that kind of thing. So she graduates from high school, she ends up doing massage therapy classes. In 2006, that's what she wants to do for a living. Okay. As massage therapy. During this time, she meets another man here named Michael Humphrey. And we'll talk about him in a minute here. But during massage class, summer break, which I didn't know that this was like a. I don't know, it was like a full. I figured it would be a semester if nothing else, not a whole, you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Know, it was like a six or eight course.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. So she met that Michael Humphrey on a group outing with some friends, and they go out for a little while, on and off, but it doesn't really work out. So later on, she ends up meeting a man named Josh, and she hooks up with him. And in 2007, March of 2007, the day before her 19th birthday, she finds out she's pregnant.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And at the same time, not only is it the day before her 19th birthday, it's also the day before she's supposed to take her state boards for massage there. She's got to go take her exams.

[Jimmy Wisman]

With a little bit of pressure.

[James Petrigallo]

A little bit of pressure. So she said the night before, when she's supposed to be studying, she was a little bit overwhelmed with the fact that she was pregnant, so didn't really work out. She ends up failing the exams the next day.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petrigallo]

Comes close, but failed here. But she tells Josh that she's pregnant, and he was so excited that he was pulling out of a parking lot. When she told him that he backed into a light pole. He was so excited, he didn't even realize what he was doing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She didn't wait till that shit was in park. Come on now.

[James Petrigallo]

She said, you in reverse. Or at least be driving at a steady pace.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Be clipping down the road with a nice song on before you break that news.

[James Petrigallo]

She said that was hilarious. And he laughed. He backed into a pole and laughed about it. So now Josh, in addition to not being a great parking lot driver, he's apparently not a great driver on the highway either. As we'll find out here, while she's pregnant, Josh goes off on a Saturday afternoon with some friends to the Lake of the Ozarks there. Yeah, well, partying, definitely.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, probably drinking. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Well, on the way back home, Josh gets in a very bad car accident and severely injures several other people, including people in his car and people in another car that he got in an accident with.

[Jimmy Wisman]

His fault.

[James Petrigallo]

His fault. And apparently he must have been on something because he ends up going to prison for this. And I'm talking not for a year, for many years. He sent to prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So that's pretty much it. She has no further contact with him. He doesn't inquire about how, you know, how his child's gonna do or anything. He just goes to prison and she just goes, well, that's that and it's over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

See you around, Josh.

[James Petrigallo]

That's it. If Josh wants to see his kid, he's gonna have to file some paperwork.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Basically, and do his time.

[James Petrigallo]

And do his time is the other thing. So early 2008, January, her son is born. So her son is born and 2009, she retakes her exams and she starts working as a massage therapist, which is all she wants to do. She starts working at a place called Natural Connections as a massage therapist. And she's starting to get her life together now too, which is. This is good. I mean, and she's only what, 22 at this point? Young lady, 22, single mom. And she got a job doing what she wanted to do. She then gets her own apartment with her son. So she's got. That's. She's getting it together. 22, that's impressive. It's hard to take care of yourself at 22. Nevermind someone else too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And a child will hasten it. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, it'll make it rough. So she also starts seeing Michael Humphrey again. He is the guy that she saw pre Josh from the. No, no, no, that's the high school guy. Michael Humphrey's a guy she met while in massage therapy school. Got it dated for a little bit and whatever. Now they're gonna date on and off again here. It's an on and off thing. They're both really into drugs together. They like doing pills together. Lindley and Michael Lindley at this point says she was very addicted to prescription painkillers. Loved them. Michael was also really into prescription painkillers. And it makes it really easy because guess what he does for a living?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is he a pharmacist?

[James Petrigallo]

He sells prescription painkillers.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that'll do it.

[James Petrigallo]

Just didn't go to school for it. He just. He'll give them to you no matter what. In a parking lot. He doesn't give a fuck. So he's a drug dealer is what he does for a living. So we got a drug dealer and a chick who loves pills. That's a match made in heaven, is what that is. Or hell, either one. And in this area of Missouri, that's called a match made in heaven. I believe here that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that is a jacket pot on Tinder.

[James Petrigallo]

So. Holy shit. So they're really into it, and they're doing pills together, and they're, you know, on and off and fighting. And she said she would go back to him. And part of it was that he had a bunch of pills. So that was part of the fact they kept getting back together. 2010, she starts working at a new job in Columbia, Missouri.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

And she said one day she dropped her son off here. I won't give his name because I think he's still a minor, so I don't want to give that away or close to it anyway. Doesn't need us to break his balls anyway. Leave the kid alone. Basically. Yeah. So she dropped her son off at school or whatever she does in the morning, and she was working and doing a massage therapy appointment. She said at that moment, she stopped for a second and realized that she couldn't remember getting to work today.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petrigallo]

She doesn't remember dropping her kid off. She doesn't remember. So she's saying in her mind, she started to panic of, what if I didn't take my kid to school? What if I just. What if I forgot him somewhere? What if. Left him at the grocery store? What if I gave him away?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Loves parking lot.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Yeah. We have no idea. So she starts freaking out and says, holy shit, maybe I'm doing a little too many pills. Like, this is great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. Self awareness.

[James Petrigallo]

She took that in as, Holy shit. This is a wake up call. I don't even know where my kid is today. This is fucked. So she said at that point she went and picked her son up, and she took her son to her father's house and asked her father if she could move back in with him. And that's. And she breaks up with Michael. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

And quits pills because she said she can't be with a guy selling pills and get off pills. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

She decides she's gonna completely wipe herself of that at all. She said her dad went with her to the house to pick stuff up to make sure he couldn't talk her back into it or give her more drugs or whatever the fuck.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's terrific.

[James Petrigallo]

Yep. She said she had a real rough week with the, you know, detoxing, the pills. But then after that she was okay. She quit them and she was better. So. Good for you, Lindley. Not bad. She's done a lot at 23 so far.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No doubt.

[James Petrigallo]

You know, like, this is a lot. She's already 23, realized she had a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Problem and then took course in action.

[James Petrigallo]

To fix it and kicked it and relationships and she's had a career and a lot of stuff going on here. In 2011, she is on Facebook and you know, Facebook, not so much now, but back then, 2011, 2012, people used to constantly post those like quizzes. Basically, favorite band, first concert and they'd have this long thing. Now it's only like 80 year old people that do it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But yeah, and back then everybody used to do it.

[James Petrigallo]

Exactly. And that's exactly what they did back then. And that's what she did. And through this post. Remember Ben, the drummer who from high school. Well, he saw this post and commented on it and they went back and forth on a couple comments. And then next thing you know, he sent her a message and they started talking to each other that way, how is just. How's your life? You know, how's everything go? You have a kid, that's cool and all that shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I wonder if that is what that post was geared for. Engagement.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, it is. That's exactly what it's geared for.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Entertainment.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. That's why people posted that shit. So people would then talk back to them. And I guess that's engagement. I don't know. I post things that I'm like, people won't respond to this. This is good. I'd like them to just take what I'm saying and you don't have to fucking. You don't need a comment, really.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And also if you don't even have to like it.

[James Petrigallo]

Really. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If a joke is written and it's obviously a joke, I don't need you to fucking tag it. Or no, try to make it better.

[James Petrigallo]

Or I also don't need you to explain the thing that I'm saying. I don't understand. Because that's not the point of a joke. I love that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't explain why this exaggeration is ridiculous because that's the point.

[James Petrigallo]

It's a fucking. That's how jokes work. So. Oh, that's annoying. So Ben, Ben Renick here. R e N I C K Renick. He's born same year, 1987. Same age as her, same grade in school and everything. They start talking, they start dating. She says Ben treated her really well. She felt comfortable with him. He was a nice, easygoing guy, gentle. They're into the same kind of music. They both like to read. They're both into horror movies.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yep.

[James Petrigallo]

They're the same kind of nerd, which is what you're looking for. Whatever you're nerdy about, you want someone who's nerdy about that too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So this is an Ozfest couple.

[James Petrigallo]

It's an. Absolutely, yeah. So the other thing they were kind of connected with is they both had mothers that died from diseases young.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my.

[James Petrigallo]

Cancer and other things. So they both had dead mothers at this point. And they're only 23, 24 at this point. So I mean, that's a tough one. So they were. They, you know, kind of connected over that also. He treated her son very well as well. That was the other thing that impressed her. She said one night she. The first night that they stayed over at his house, you know, hit her in the sun. She said, I'm gonna go read him a book. Like she said, Ben set up the spare bedroom for him and had it all nice and a bed set up for him. And so she said, I'm gonna go read him a story and put him to bed. I'll be back. And she said Ben went in there and helped out with the reading and was sitting with him. And she said it was just very endearing to see that he was a. Had a caring side like that and a paternal side, basically. So she's super impressed here. Now, Ben, a little bit about him. He graduated Montgomery high school in 2006. He lived all his life on the same property. It's a 72 acre farm, big block of property here that his dad owns.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not a quarter acre property.

[James Petrigallo]

No, no, no. It's 70 something acres. Yeah, there's multiple. There's multiple houses on the property. Like, it's a big property. We'll talk about his dad. He's a very interesting guy. So anyway, this guy. The property abuts the Danville conservation area, which must mean that nothing can be built on it. So that's even more rural property there. She describes Ben as career driven and very analytical. She said he's very into that. He's very good at socializing, but he doesn't prefer it. He's not into that. He prefers to be with the snakes, if anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really.

[James Petrigallo]

He likes to do his business. She said his relationships with other people are very transactional, like business stuff or whatever, but not. Not a ton of friends that he hangs out with and talks to all the time and that kind of shit. So she said he enjoyed playing the drums and, like, collecting horror movie props. That's what he was into also. Now, a neighbor who lives here named Mike Scarlet, he said that he knew Ben from a very young age. He said he was a real good, friendly kid. Matter of fact, he's the only kid that grew up around here who wanted to help me. All these other little bastards. I said, can you help me shovel a driveway? What'd they do? They threw things at me. They yelled at me. They called me names. Ben picked up a shovel. He's a good kid.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They shoveled everything but the driveway. Threw all that snow into the driveway.

[James Petrigallo]

The other kids and Ben would come shovel it all off and say. He said, apologize. He's a good guy. Now, his parents are Frank and Kim, and his mom died from cancer. That's how this goes. Now, Frank is a character. Frank Renick. Here we go. In 1992, one of the houses on their property exploded.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And I'm talking fucking exploded. Like a goddamn action movie. Kaboom. Fucking roof flies off, shit everywhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

They said that the neighbor said a washer and dryer and all kinds of junk crashed into his yard when the home exploded.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petrigallo]

These properties are not right next to each other.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right?

[James Petrigallo]

So this is. We're not talking about, like you said, quarter acre lots. This is. Yeah, this shit got distance. They launched a fucking. You know how much power has to be to launch a washer and dryer? You know, fucking heavy a dryer is. It's so heavy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Two guys to lift it.

[James Petrigallo]

Now imagine if you were going to toss it hundreds of feet into the air and, like, down the street, how the force that would take.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That takes like a backhoe or a front end loader or some shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Huck. The newspaper that reported on this said that insulation was still falling down an hour after the explosion. That's how. An hour. That's how high. I guess it went into orbit, for Christ's sake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How long would it take? Yeah, I guess that shit comes down like feathers.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, if it goes up 10,000ft, I guess it would take a while to fall. That's all I could think.

[Jimmy Wisman]

An hour.

[James Petrigallo]

An hour. It was insulation raining down for an hour?

[Jimmy Wisman]

For an hour.

[James Petrigallo]

Jesus. That is crazy. So the sheriff here, the chief deputy of the sheriff's office, Steve Myers, said he Heard it from miles away. He was miles away at the sheriff's department and said, I thought it was an earthquake. That's how big of an explosion it is. Miles away. They felt the ground rumble.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's gas leak, right?

[James Petrigallo]

Well, yeah, we'll talk about it here. Now, no one was hurt in this thing and no one was arrested. The Renick family had been staying in St. Louis that night. They were away from the house. Conveniently for them, he said the fire marshal determined gas plugs were taken out of the gas line. Really? Yeah, you know, like on purpose. Arson like that, they don't just come out. Someone has to take them out. So that's very interesting. Possibly an insurance thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right? But, you know, let's read it or something.

[James Petrigallo]

Let's not suspect Frank yet. Let's. Frank might be a real upstanding cat, you know what I mean? We don't know. Let's find out what he does. He opened Spectrum pet care in 1996, and it sold natural and organic pet foods and treats. He formerly owned the Bow wow dog food company, which was purchased by ConAgra.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, great.

[James Petrigallo]

He's got a game here where he starts small companies, sells them to bigger companies, starts another company. That's what he does. So he's a very smart guy and a good businessman.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right. Makes it a conglomerate.

[James Petrigallo]

2012. About Frank. Now, this is fucking wild. In June of 2011, Missouri securities regulators said that Frank Renick, Ben's dad, had been selling unregistered securities for years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

And had misled investors and used Spectrum money for satellite TV services, vehicle payments, medical care, and at a cruise ship company. So he's embezzling money from investors is what that is. That's what that's called. So Frank was president of Spectrum Pet Care, Inc. And they manufactured pet food. And the indictment here, because Frank is going to be indicted, alleges that Frank sold over $7 million in investments in Spectrum, including stocks, bonds and promissory notes, to over 250 investors in Missouri and other states.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow, this is a crazy Ponzi scheme is what he's got going on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's just selling. He just tells people, I'm selling you stocks.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm selling you stock in my company. And then when other people invest, he can pay off some of that, like a dividend to that person, make them think everything's fine. The indictment says that between 2006 and May 2011, Renick induced investors to invest substantial amounts of money in Spectrum by making false representations about Spectrum's financial Condition and how the invested funds would be used. He also told investors that their investments would be used to purchase equipment and fund operations. They said some of the funds were used for the business, but he used substantial portions to repay existing investors and to pay for his personal expenses completely unrelated to the business. You know, a Ponzi scheme. Exactly what it is. Bernie Madoff. Same thing, smaller scale. Bernie Madoff. The indictment alleges that investors lost millions of dollars as a result of this scheme. So he's indicted by a federal grand jury on three felony counts of mail fraud. Now, if convicted, each count of mail fraud carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. This is. This is hardcore fuck you, white collar crime here. And fines of up to $250,000.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck.

[James Petrigallo]

In determining the actual sentences, a judge is required to consider these guidelines, which provide recommended sentencing ranges. The case was investigated by this Postal Inspection Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. So FBI and the post office, and that's how it goes. So Frank, while this is all going down, he is fucked in a big way. And this isn't something you can talk your way out of. There's a paper trail.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. FBI and mail fraud, you don't want these. These are the worst charges.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, investors have, you know, sheets that they've been sent that have just total bullshit on them. So it's not good. You can't lie to investors. So what Frank does here to get himself out of this is he shoots himself in the fucking head and dies. Whoa. Done. He goes, I'm not going to. I won't go to prison. And he blew his fucking brains out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So now Ben has no parents.

[James Petrigallo]

No parents. They're both gone. So Sam, who is Ben's brother, Ben's older brother, said Ben found him. He found his dad, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petrigallo]

He fed him to a snake. It was crazy. He was like, it's almost time for the boa to get fed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That snake still hasn't eaten to this day.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, boy, he's still full. He said, Ben found him. He came and got me, and we went there together and it was a tough day. He said, there's a lot of people that lost a lot of money, you know, due to my father. He said, and this is only like two years after the mother's death, too. So Ben's gone through it here. Ben and Sam, they've had it tough. So at this point, somehow, I don't know why, but Ben ends up getting all the property. Not even though they're brothers. Makes no sense. Sam didn't get shit out of this. But Sam does live on the property in another house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So he got a little place to stay.

[James Petrigallo]

He got a little bit. And so Ben builds a house on this property for him to live in. And Lindley and her son move into this house on the property. He says, come, move into this house. So now that it's a little homestead they have here, or big one, I should say, it's 70 something acres. So Sam would run the property basically after that. You know, he would kind of take care of everything here. One of the neighbors said, both boys seem like good kids. Both have young families, nice kids. So that's what the neighbors said when they saw them. There you go. 2014, we have Lindley and Ben get married now. Yeah, they're going to get married. Sam said, quote, they had a beautiful wedding. It was beautiful. A small family event. It was very special.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. So now he's going to be a stepdad.

[James Petrigallo]

He's going to be a stepdad and he's going to be a dad. Dad. Because pretty soon after that, they're going to have their first child.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petrigallo]

So this is moving along, progression. You know what I mean? This is doing great. So here's what they do for work. As we know, Ben is into reptiles and has a pretty big business. And we'll talk about exactly how successful it was, because it was very successful, booming. He is super into snakes, always. Basically, he ran Rennick Reptiles out of a building near his home on the property. He specialized in breeding designer pythons and sold them all over the place, nationwide. Now, a video tour of the business that he put together for his own, like, advertising purposes shows him handling all kinds of snakes with. No, he's not like, ew. Okay, okay, just put it in my hand. Okay. Ew, ew, ew, ew. He just picks it up. He's like, yeah, this guy here, he's grabbing him by the face. He's real comfortable with snakes. Super comfortable.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. He's very well aware of what's poisonous and what's not. And he's good at this.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Terrifying is what that is. So he said, these things are just very, very amazing. He says about snakes on the video, these things are just very, very amazing. I feel like maybe he should have written something down before he went on, perhaps.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

He's like, I'll go live and I'll have it. I'll just. I'll do it on the day. Don't worry is what he said. And they were like, o'reilly.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now everybody thinks they can do it live.

[James Petrigallo]

You didn't write it down, did you?

[Jimmy Wisman]

You prepared nothing. I got it, I've got it, I got it. Don't worry.

[James Petrigallo]

In madame piece, I don't write it down. I keep it in my head like Jay Z and then I just spit my verse. That's how it works.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's more organic.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, it comes out better that way. So Ben converted the barn on the farm into the business. That's how it worked. And Sam said Ben had his first snake at a very young age and that became somewhat of a passion for him. It became a hobby to build into a business and he was very good at what he did. Another person says Lindley found Ben's passion interesting. She thought it was cool that he was into something. I mean, shit, why not? I think it's attractive when someone's into anything. It's kind of cool.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Especially if they're good at it. Could be anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When they know a lot about. When they know what they're doing, whatever it is that they're doing, it's pretty interesting.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't care what it is. Doesn't you know? Just that they're something. She would work day and night helping Ben with his snakes, handling them, cleaning them, sorting them. So Lindley would. She jumped into sorting the snake. So she has to be very okay with snakes because she's going to be handling them quite a bit. One guy here, one of Ben's friends said Ben was a successful snake breeder. He was kind of a pioneer in that whole industry. He was definitely very well known in the snake breeding community. Like I would say worldwide.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's Pioneer in 2017.

[James Petrigallo]

I didn't Pioneer anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petrigallo]

Except for podcasting maybe back then. Other than that, there wasn't much to pioneer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Crypto or fucking something. I don't know that snakes breeding. They've been breeding snakes since the fucking beginning of time.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, since Egyptians. I mean, like, what are we talking about? So, yeah, she. But he. She says this guy says he's like a worldwide rock star. There's so many niches out there that we have no fucking idea about. None. Yeah, what's up?

[Jimmy Wisman]

A snake breeding rock star.

[James Petrigallo]

Rock star is what he's called. And we've never heard of him. Or we just go, oh, snake breeder. Creepy. That's all we say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said the unique color combinations and patterns he produced because he would cross breed snakes and put snakes together that he thinks would fucking look cool or whatever. He said that that was a big deal. He created designer pets that could sell for upwards of $100,000 each.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Did he create the Goldendoodle of snakes?

[James Petrigallo]

I think that's what he's doing. Basically he's breathing snakes. He's a useless, hypoallergenic weird dog.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It took a lifetime to find the person you want to marry. Finding the perfect engagement ring is a lot easier. @bluenile.com you can find or design the ring you've always dreamed of with help from Blue Niles jewelry experts who are on hand 247 to answer questions and the ease and convenience of shopping online. For a limited time. Get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more with code audiolownile.com that's $50 off with code [e-mail] Remember when gaming meant dropping hundreds on a console or gaming PC? Well, those days are over. Amazon Luna lets you play your favorite video games instantly on devices you already own. Just like streaming a movie. No expensive hardware required. Here's the Amazon Luna Magic. All you need is an Internet connection and a screen. Your phone, tablet, laptop, fire, tv, they all instantly become your gaming oasis. No game downloads, no special hardware. Just gaming. And we're talking hundreds of amazing games here, from the latest releases to beloved classics. Fortnite, Sonic, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Batman, action adventure, racing, strategy, RPGs. So much game, so little time. But the best part. If you're an Amazon prime member, you can play on Luna for free. That's right, free. Ready to level up your gaming? Head to Amazon.com Luna to start playing today. No console, no problem. That's cloud gaming. With Amazon Luna, fall is in the air and that cooler weather calls for an update in your skincare. Moisturizing is key to keeping wrinkles at bay. That's why we need a skincare routine that's easy, fast and gives us results. Plus, what if your products had thousands of five star reviews were natural and affordable? Well, say hello to Dime Beauty. Dime Beauty is clean, high end skincare that is affordable and it really works. Not sure where to start. I highly recommend the Work System. It's everything you need in one powerful package. Take out the guesswork with a proven routine that includes a gentle yet effective cleanser, a super skin toner, two incredible serums and two luxurious moisturizers. See what everyone is raving about. From serum sets to the always sold out retinol alternative TBT cream, you'll find your perfect skincare match. Dime has over 2 million happy customers and their product reviews are literally 5 stars. Love your skin Again, go to Dime Beauty Co and unlock your discount. That's Dime Beauty Co dot com. That's Dime Beauty Co dot com.

[James Petrigallo]

So she said, his friend said Ben was doing stuff nobody had ever seen before. And he had a lot of worlds first over the years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Here's a snake with two dicks.

[James Petrigallo]

Look at this. It's a snake with legs. Ain't that something? Here's a snake that can run.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a bearded dragon. And you know it's.

[James Petrigallo]

It is not. Look at the tail. It's a snake, I tell you. Just say I'm the first.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've seen an iguana before.

[James Petrigallo]

Damn it. Why you gotta always discourage me from doing things? It's a snake with fucking legs. God damn it. I made it. Look at it. He's fast, too. Look at him go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn it, Ben. You're insulting my intelligence. I've read a book before. I watched my grandmother gave me a subscription to Ranger Rick.

[James Petrigallo]

Thing is, you don't know about snakes, though. See? Are you the snake rock star? I didn't think so. Me, snake rock star? Trust me on this one. He's got legs and I made him. There you go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All right. It's not an iguana.

[James Petrigallo]

Goddamn right, it's not an iguana. I could sue you for libel for that. This is my livelihood right here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's not a snake, that's a skink.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, so Ben says in the video. Welcome to the basement of Renick Reptiles. We keep particular pythons, blood pythons, white lip pythons, green anacondas.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck is a blood python?

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know. I think it's red, probably. Is what I would.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I don't think it. Yeah, I don't think it lusts. It lusts for blood. That's what it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

It only eats blood. You have to feed it blood.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You have to take the rabbit blood out of the rapid.

[James Petrigallo]

You gotta drain it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And you put it in one of those hamster feeders. And the late. The snake will hit the low ball.

[James Petrigallo]

You got to make a deal with a butcher shop to get their extra. It's a lot. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll take two pounds of pig blood, please.

[James Petrigallo]

Like a bucket of blood. I can have, Please. Trying to work on either. So the butcher's like, are you either. Are you working on a carry situation or do you have a python? Which one?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do you have a python or are you shooting a movie?

[James Petrigallo]

I need to know which, because, really, if it's a carry situation, there's a couple Specific models of buckets you're going to want for this. It's going to work best.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And also some paperwork.

[James Petrigallo]

You're going to need that. Yeah. They even show him bare handing picking up a snapping turtle.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's brave.

[James Petrigallo]

That's insanity. I won't go in any body body of water if there's a rumor a snapping turtle might be in there. Bite your dick off.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's a. There's a southern chef on Instagram that goes into the bayou James and picks up like fucking 50 pound snappers.

[James Petrigallo]

That's great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why I hope it takes your fucking leg off. I hope. Pick it up backwards.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, they'll take a finger those things.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I hope you mistake a tail for a head. Pick that fucking. And it circumcises the motherfuck out of you. You son of a bitch.

[James Petrigallo]

You lousy playing with turtles.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petrigallo]

So they say that one guy here who is Phil Goss, the president of the United States association of Reptile Keepers. Which exists by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

People have paid money and paid their dues to do this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They get a lapel pin for that.

[James Petrigallo]

He said good cooks don't always make good restaurant owners. It's the same with animal lovers. But Ben on the other hand, not only had a passion for snakes and how to care for them, he carried that into being a very good business person as well. So yeah, just liking snakes and being good at making them fuck doesn't mean that you know how to put together a business. You know what I mean? That's just. You're into that could be totally different. Yeah, we're good at this and terrible at business. We're good at making a show. We're terrible at the business side of it. That's how it works. Yeah, we're just like that. He said he was one of the most professional minds in the reptile community. He represented himself well, had extremely healthy animals. Very good. He tapped. They said that he, Renick really tapped into the growth of the reptile business. Popularity that's just been. Just blossoming. And they said 5% of U.S. households have reptiles as pets. 5%. Which isn't a lot. That's not a lot at all. Which he chalked up to anything from requiring less maintenance than dogs and cats to their non allergenic. So if you want a pet but you don't want to pick up shit. Well, 300 million people. 10% of 300 million would be 30. So 5% would be 15. 15 million people.

[Jimmy Wisman]

15 million.

[James Petrigallo]

That's actually like 330 million. So we'll say, like, say 18 million people have a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And if you do it by household averaging, how many people are in a household? Probably about 6 million.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, there you go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Exactly.

[James Petrigallo]

Total 6 million houses would probably about that. Yeah. There we go. We figured it all out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not bad math, James.

[James Petrigallo]

We did that pretty quick. For a couple of idiot comedians, it's not bad. But he said that reptiles have become more domesticated and are bred mainly in captivity. Now. He said a lot of people are more open to having a bearded dragon or a ball python as a pet. I'm not having any pet that sounds like it goes after your balls, especially a giant snake. You tell all your friends, be careful. That's a ball python. Everybody walks in your house covering up their fucking dicks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Stay out of the other room.

[James Petrigallo]

That's right. I got an asshole boa in the back there. You don't want him coming anywhere near you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They actually ball up like that. Like that white snake pendant cover.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's what ball pythons do. They just go into a ball. They're. They're. They look like a big knot. It's a bizarre snake.

[James Petrigallo]

I thought all snakes did that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, they coil, but those things, like, ball.

[James Petrigallo]

Well, I guess I've seen, like when you watch. I've seen garter snakes, like, in my yard. Breeding.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Yeah. And they kind of ball up, right?

[James Petrigallo]

They're in like a. Yeah, they're in like a knotted, twisted. And it's like a big moving, twisted, knotted thing. It's fucking weird. Yeah, it's really weird.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And they have two little hooks on the back of them, and they. They lock those together to fuck. It's the creepiest thing.

[James Petrigallo]

That's creepy. I guess it's better than a dog dick just stuck in something. Yeah. At least they can't get away.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And then you don't even see the snake dick.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, no, I didn't see any snake dicks at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It gets in there.

[James Petrigallo]

So he specialized in the ball pythons, which is one of the most common pet snakes in the industry. It's considered a smaller species. A big ball pythons about four and a half feet long, you know, small. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And so fat.

[James Petrigallo]

James.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've had two.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, yeah. They're huge and fat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

I thought you hated snakes. You're just before that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I. I do. And I. I got into them for a minute.

[James Petrigallo]

Okay. For.

[Jimmy Wisman]

For a minute. Because I thought that. I thought the women liked snakes and the women that like snakes. I don't like that's what I learned that's.

[James Petrigallo]

I was just gonna say they scared.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The shit out of me.

[James Petrigallo]

Those are frightening. Those are a tougher breed of lady than you're looking for, I think, knowing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You not capable of taking to dinner.

[James Petrigallo]

No. Well, no. She's going to whip a fucking. An iguana out of her purse at some point or something. You never know what she's going to have packing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She wants to go to a place that has bugs so she can bag up the crickets and feed her fucking snakes at all.

[James Petrigallo]

It's weird as shit. He also had a type of albino green anaconda and reticulated pythons which very rarely exceed 20ft. 20ft. That is enormous. Enormous. That's a huge one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Very rarely.

[James Petrigallo]

Fuck. One guy here of central Florida, he lives in. A guy named Brian Enslin said he bought his first baby snake from Renick in 2010 and since then he bought about 10 more. He got real into snakes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

10 snakes.

[James Petrigallo]

He's got 11 snakes altogether.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petrigallo]

He said customer service goes a long way. So he keeps coming back to Jared, to Ben, because he's such a goddamn, you know, snake guy here, bench with the snakes. He's a charmer, boy, a snake charmer. So he said the snakes were shipped through an overnight mail service. He said still he had the chance to meet Renick twice at a convention in Daytona, Florida. Renick mentored him on how to help build up his own side business. He said he helped me quite a bit along the way, if I had questions. He's one of the big names in the industry. He's dealt with a lot of people. Ben is like a big, literally the reptile industry. He's known the world over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ben Renick, that's.

[James Petrigallo]

Everybody knows who he is. So that neighbor again who said he's the only one that would help me with my shit there, he said that this guy graded the Renick family's long driveway in the winter and fixed their lawn equipment in the summer. So he. He was like a handyman on this property too. He said a few years ago, Ben finally persuaded him to step inside the snake house. This guy was not in the snake. He was in Vietnam. But snake scare him. Shoot at me all you want, I don't give a fuck. Put me face down in a jungle. But don't come near a snake in a fish tank. I don't want to see.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I can be in a room with a snake. Maybe two snakes.

[James Petrigallo]

How about 3,000?

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, too many snakes that can overtake you. Right.

[James Petrigallo]

So this guy said he Knew I didn't like snakes. I told him I'd go in and look at. I'd look one time, and that's all I did. Probably shit his pants in there, too. This guy did say that Ben was organized, he worked hard, and that there seemed to be a regular stream of delivery trucks passing by. Bringing him shit. Taking snakes out, he said.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Bringing him mice.

[James Petrigallo]

Said. The business seems to be thriving. So in 2016 now. So she helped him get his business going. Lindley did. Would help with the snakes. And I assume to set that up has got to be a lot of work.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my.

[James Petrigallo]

Now she. Who. She's been to massage school, obviously, and they have some money now, so she decides she's going to open up her own spa, massage parlor, whatever the fuck. She's going to do her own business.

[Jimmy Wisman]

These gals can make some money, man, I'm telling you.

[James Petrigallo]

So two people in this couple, both with their own businesses that are thriving. She opened a business called Essencia Spa in Columbia, Missouri and Ascensia. I have no idea. Her friend Ashley Shaw was the spa manager. She hires a friend of hers to do that. And Sam, Ben's brother, said, I know that when she started her spa business, it's just something that she had always wanted to do, you know, that empowered her quite a bit. Yeah. To have her own business, especially to have your own, like, building where you have.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

It's one thing to run a business from your house or whatever, but to have a building where you have, like, tables set up and a sign up and people come in and sit and wait and that. There's a certain pride to the whole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got a spare set of keys that are just business keys.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. There's a certain something to that. So Ben's brother also, like I said, lives on the property. Sam. Sam said we lived out there together and raised our kids out there together. He said we went fishing on the weekends. You know, we were close.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So, yeah. I mean, him and his brother live on the same property, and why not?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Country shit.

[James Petrigallo]

Hell, yeah, country shit. By 2017, the business of reptiles is fucking booming, baby. Really, it is bumping. He is shipping snakes around the world to you, to the uk, to Japan, traveling to reptile conventions all over the US and when he walks in, they're like, oh, shit, that's Ben Reddick. That's the. I mean, he makes. Yeah, he makes all sorts of weird shit we never thought of.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's like, Robert England shows up to Comic Con.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, God. Jesus is like, yeah. Urban Fucking Shatner would show up to one of those trekking things that they.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do, Star Trek things.

[James Petrigallo]

So enter Dave Kaufman. And Dave, by the way, is dav. But it said Dave.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Stop it.

[James Petrigallo]

Absolutely. That's. That's some snake guy shit right there. That's the thing. See, to me, every guy, every guy who's super into snakes is like Dave Navarro. That's who I feel like. I feel like.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So are the girls.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes, exactly. Less attractive versions of Dave Navarro where like. Because if Dave Navarro wasn't a real handsome guy, you go crazy. He looks like he smells.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, he's also kind of androgynous. I don't know, he could be. You could be a gal that looks like Dave Navarro.

[James Petrigallo]

You know, you can, but either way, you look dirty. You look like been sweating a lot and haven't really taken a shower. And your leather pants have been on for days at a time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Can't tell if that's dyed hair or if it's just soot.

[James Petrigallo]

It could be soot. Is that, is your hair greasy or did you put product in it? I can't tell. That's what Dave automatically when I think that's DAV though. Dave.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, Dick Dave.

[James Petrigallo]

Okay, Dave Navarro. Want to be with your fucking snake. Dave with no E. Jesus Christ. So Dave Kaufman here, He talked to 48 Hours, the TV show, when they talked about this story. And he was showing the 48 hours correspondent. This picture, by the way, is fucking hilarious. Of this 48 Hours correspondent, Peter Van Sant, who's like an older white haired guy. And at one point there's a shot of him standing there talking to this Dave with the 48 Hours guy with a giant python like wrapped around his neck like eight times. And he's like just having a normal conversation. It's fucking ridiculous. So it's a reticulated python is what he's showing him. And Dave said Ben loved these snakes because of how. Because how can you not love these snakes? That's what he said. He loved these snakes because how could you not love them? He said. I mean, when it really comes down to it, they're big, they're beautiful, they're personable.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

Personable purse? What the fuck? I mean, it could be if you wanted to make it into one. Shoes, a belt, whatever. Really? Whatever you want, I assume.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, but I mean, is the next word sensible? What are you talking about?

[James Petrigallo]

They're big, beautiful and personable. Sounds like he likes like fat girls. That's what he's into. He's like, I like a Heavy girl. Let me tell you something. They're big, they're beautiful. They're more personable, honestly, you know what I mean? They want to talk to you. That's what he sounds like. I'm Dave without an E. This is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My brother Scott with one T. One.

[James Petrigallo]

T. It's S, K, O, T. That's how you spell his name. He's very cool. With a k and 1t. Is that so Dave said, she's going to go right over to your shoulder and try to go on the cage behind you. Let's see if I'm right. And then the snake kind of goes over the. Starts going over the Correspondent, but then wraps around his neck and he goes, nope, she's. Nope. She's gonna wrap around you. I'd be like, nope, you're gonna take this motherfucker off me right now or I'm gonna beat it to death with my microphone. Get this fucking thing off my neck before I kill it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm gonna cut it in half.

[James Petrigallo]

I am gonna take. Swear to God, dude, I'm gonna open this fucking thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do not ask your friend Zach Zak to come take this off of me.

[James Petrigallo]

Jesus. Jesus Christ. Get Peter with only one E to come over, please. Yeah, that's the one. Get him to come over. We need him. So the Correspondent said, it's my new scarf. And DAV says, there you go. I won't call him Dave anymore.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's DAV Disable, American veteran.

[James Petrigallo]

So DAV Kaufman is also a snake breeder and a documentary filmmaker who travels the world tracking rare and exotic reptiles for his YouTube channel. You know, a complete tool.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shit bag.

[James Petrigallo]

A complete fucking tool.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A guy that goes and disturbs wildlife for fucking likes and fucks with him.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. The Crocodile Hunter without the charm. The Crocodile Hunter without the excitement of an Australian community. Yeah, yeah. It's just the excitement of an Australian is all it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

With no preservation of.

[James Petrigallo]

If he didn't walk up to animals and go, oh, look at it, people wouldn't have cared about him. He's like, oh, he was so excited. People were like, this must be interesting. Look how jacked this guy is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He just grabbed a raccoon by the tail and drug it out of the.

[James Petrigallo]

Woods and then threw it at his four year old and said, catch, would you?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, this one's angry.

[James Petrigallo]

Watch out. Kay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All right, R and R.

[James Petrigallo]

So Dave here, dav, Sorry. He says Ben was so successful, he realized that if he sold off a portion of Renick Reptiles, he could make some real money. Like take in a Partner, but for a good amount of money. So this is like going public if it was stock, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure, yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So Sam, his brother, said Ben had planned on selling the majority of his ball python collection. For my understanding, it was about $1.2 million.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He has a million dollars in fucking ball pythons.

[James Petrigallo]

Not even 30 years old yet. This guy too, about 30 at this time. He said things were going to be very good for my brother and Lindley. They received their. At least their first payment, that Sam knows about, of $200,000 toward the full sale of all of his pipes, portion of his pythons. So June 8, 2017, is the day that this is all leading up to 2017. Lynn's at her spa. Kids didn't get picked up. Fuck. She goes over there to look for him. Holy shit. He's on the ground in blood. She calls 911, she calls Sam. Sam gets there before the cops because he's on the property, obviously. And there they are. And he's saying, you know, my brother's skull was crushed. In my wildest dreams, I would never imagine anyone would hurt Ben. And all the cops are scared. And then we're back to where we were. Okay. So yeah, at one point they're there and Lynn says, because they think something's a snake. And Lynn says, that's not a snake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is it?

[James Petrigallo]

And Sam says, that's a snake honey. Which is funny. It's a snake honey, like patting her on the head. Meanwhile, she knows all sorts of snake shit more than Sam. So she says, that's not a snake and it wasn't a snake. It was something else on the ground that looked like a snake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So no, dummy, that's a pencil.

[James Petrigallo]

So right away, death by snake is what they're thinking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ran away.

[James Petrigallo]

When they finally get a couple of cops in there with a. With balls that are willing to fucking actually go near the body without being afraid of a snake, they fucking pick the body up and they find shell casings underneath his body. Uh oh, that's not the snakes. One thing they have a very hard time doing. I mean, I know he's a great snake breeder, but I doubt he bred any that have use of their hands and can fire a gun. Probably that would be very difficult for them to do, at least to aim it. It would be tough. So one of the cop that was there said he'd been shot in the back several times and then ultimately shot in the back of the head. And that's why his skull looked all fucked up. They Thought it was crushed by a snake, but it really.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He was shot.

[James Petrigallo]

He was shot. He had a big hole in the back of his head. And the county coroner here said someone being killed by a snake is not something that happens every day, especially in Missouri.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And it didn't happen today either.

[James Petrigallo]

Nope. He said, when I saw that shell casing on the shelf just above his head, one must have flown up. I knew this was not from a snake. This was something much more heinous. I knew that this was a homicide at that time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So they take Ben away and determine that he was shot six times from behind.

[Jimmy Wisman]

With what?

[James Petrigallo]

And once in the head. Shit. You shoot somebody six times. Does it matter?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, but it's not seven. It's not a shotgun. It's.

[James Petrigallo]

No, no, no. A handgun. With a handgun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Pistol.

[James Petrigallo]

Okay, A pistol. And they said likely died within two hours before the call. So sometime that morning, this happened. So they said one bullet was from a gun that was pressed against his head. It's a contact wound. I mean, a fucking right up against them, which is more like shot in the back six times. He falls. Boom. Let's make sure. Yeah. So Sam said, quote, he was shot in the back almost exclusively. I don't think he saw it coming at all. Ben had such a future ahead of him. You know, he was 29 years old. He was almost 30. A lot was lost.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ambushed.

[James Petrigallo]

Ambush. As that crazy fucking restaurant Impossible Guy says, that's the craziest show ever. First of all, that guy's nuts. He's like. I'm like Gordon Ramsay, but bigger. I'm. Look at me. I mean, even bigger.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is he Scottish?

[James Petrigallo]

He's. No, he's like a British ex. And he's like an ex British military guy. And he's jacked. He has huge arms and huge pecs. He's this big guy, and he comes in mean. He's like, what are you doing over there? Like, with this show, it got, like, bad over the years. So then they did a season called Restaurant Impossible Ambush.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He just runs in and does it.

[James Petrigallo]

Where other people. Yes, where other people would, like, put them up to it. So they would hide in a parking lot like, a quarter mile away. He'd be like, here we are. And there's, like, a tent and all this production shit. And he's like, we're getting ready right now to go over and ambush these people and tell them that the restaurant's terrible. And then they show up, like, screeching in the parking lot, slamming on brakes. Gravel's flying everywhere. He Jumps out, bursts through the door, and he goes, ambush. Ambush. Ambush. And the people are like, what the fuck is going on? What's happening right now? They're like, what the fuck?

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can't run in a restaurant. Ambush. You can't run in any business. They just say, this is a robbery.

[James Petrigallo]

Especially if you're a gigantic, crazy foreigner. You can't really ambush people like, what the fuck is happening right now? It's the craziest show I've ever seen in my life.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Imagine John Tafford just kicking in a restaurant door and going, shut it down.

[James Petrigallo]

Shut it down before anything. Adam Bush. And the people are like, what the fuck? And he's like, do you want my help or not? And they're like, I didn't call you here. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I know who you are.

[James Petrigallo]

It's the people. They do. They say. They go, why are you here? What's going on? Your friend told me your restaurant's terrible, and I'm here to fix it. And they're like, why did my friend say my restaurant's terrible?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who said that?

[James Petrigallo]

What's going on? It's the craziest show. And then he, like, yells at them and browbeats them into finally going, well, I guess you can fix it. If it's that bad, is. He'll go, make me food. And they bring it out and he goes, he won't, like. Gordon Ramsay will take a bite and go, nah, that's not good. And blah, blah, blah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Texture's bad, right?

[James Petrigallo]

He'll take a bite and he'll go, blah. Like that. He'll go, blah. And he'll, like, spin it and go, it's terrible. He'll make noises. He does ambush. And then he'll just start going crazy. Every, like, five minutes, I want him to just shout out bush out of nowhere. Anyway, so that's a big fucking tangent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow. I've never heard of it. I'm gonna have to watch it, look it up.

[James Petrigallo]

It's hilarious. Just one episode. It's so fun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Our rescue.

[James Petrigallo]

Against your will. Against your will. Forcible bar Rescue.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Bar Rescue the bar that doesn't need it.

[James Petrigallo]

Forcible Kitchen Nightmares is what it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

He makes Gordon Ramsay seem like just a calm, chill, laid back, nice British man. So who could have done this?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who?

[James Petrigallo]

Who could have done. Right away, Dave. Dav. I should say Davy. I'm going to call him Davey.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like the dog that they call D.

[James Petrigallo]

O G. Yep, exactly. Davy. That's where it came from, he said. So the first question That I asked was how many snakes were missing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

This could be a robbery. These are very valuable snakes. Yeah. Snake napping gone wrong is what this is. They said he said a facility like Ben's attracts a lot of bad people. You know, snake people. They're weird.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You would have told me that before I invested in these guys.

[James Petrigallo]

I got into this shit before.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I had six heat rocks in my bedroom.

[James Petrigallo]

God damn it. I got fucking fish tanks everywhere. What am I supposed to do with this shit?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I gotta eat lamps. My room's so hot.

[James Petrigallo]

It's so hot in here, you have no idea. I keep my air conditioning on, like 61, and it just does not keep it up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So weird. It's got, like a pungent, musty smell. I don't like it.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm finding skin everywhere. The shit's just strange.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Snake piss stinks.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, it's bad. He said a lot of people see these snakes not as these beautiful, amazing creatures that they are, but they see them as dollar signs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So the snake people help out the family. An online auction to raise money for Lindley and the baby quickly raises $11,000 the day after he is found dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Yep. One guy chipped in $6,000 for a $5 auction item just to help out the family. Yep. They said, quote, this is someone who helped said, quote, I think the world of Ben and his wife, Lindley. They've always been exceptional folks in our industry. I'm pretty devastated by the loss of Ben. That's a guy who runs Reptile Report, which is a news website and a reptile shipping service as well. The Reptile Report. Everybody I know, you check all your news, do you make sure to check Reptile Report. Get the app on your phone so you can make sure to keep up with all the latest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Holy shit. Maybe snakes do have legs by now. We don't know. We're not on Reptile Report.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So investigators are looking into the theory that Ben's murder may have been a robbery gone bad. But they figure out, based on his inventories and stuff, because he keeps meticulous records of everything. There's no snakes missing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nothing got away.

[James Petrigallo]

All the snakes are accounted for here, so they don't know it didn't make sense. So one of the investigators said they had to start looking at the people close to Ben because it's not a robbery and he's not. Doesn't have any, like, beef with strangers or anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

So the cop said. We definitely didn't want to exclude anybody from being a possible Subsect. I didn't know if Sam was involved, didn't know if Lindley was involved. They're the ones who called us. Maybe they're fucking each other and we don't know. I mean, you never know with this shit. So police talk to Lindley and they sit her down and this is from a video of this. They say, do you have any questions for us? And she said, well, what happened? And they said, we don't know yet. And she said, what? I mean, what do I do? Which is a really fair question because that's. You don't expect that you don't know what to do. What do I do?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do I call a single mom of two now? This is the second time, yeah, Something tragic as fuck has happened and tore away with my baby daddy.

[James Petrigallo]

And also what do I do? Do I call a funeral director? Do I call a coroner? Do I call. Who do I talk to? Like that's a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do I need a lawyer or an undertaker? What do I need?

[James Petrigallo]

Or both? That's the other thing. So he said, what do I do? And the cop said, lean on your friends and family. And he said, could you see anybody, you know, being upset to the. With Ben to the point where this may happen? And she said, no, he has no enemies. He's a fucking snake guy, for Christ's sake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Lean on your friends and family. Not our problem. Bitch.

[James Petrigallo]

Answer these questions. I don't know. Whatever you gotta do, take some pills. I hear that helps.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Kind of cold and callous answer. I don't know. Ask your family.

[James Petrigallo]

Fuck friends and family. You know people who give a shit about you? Not me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm trying to solve a murder.

[James Petrigallo]

I know I can't help you here. So they talked to her. They describe her as very forthcoming. Her. The main thing she talks about here, her only. They said, anybody you think could possibly do this? And she said, I'd look at my brother in law before I look at anybody else.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sam.

[James Petrigallo]

Sam. She said that, you know, it's, it's. I would look at him. She also agreed to do a gunshot residue test just to clear her out of the mix here. She said that Sam might have a motive to kill his brother. She's like, I can't think of anyone else that would have a reason to. So they asked was there any family issues? And she said, like between Sam and Ben? Yeah, there was issues, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ben got everything, Sam got nothing.

[James Petrigallo]

And that's what it was. She said that Ben's plan to possibly sell the property where they all lived, he had Talked about it. And she said that Sam was upset about it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

She said when their dad shot himself, the way that everything was set up, Ben and I actually owned all the property. She said that Sam kind of basically just went to Ben and he was like, you need to give me half of the property. And Ben was like, no, I can't jeopardize my family in this business. So, you know, he just said a lot of really hurtful things to Ben, which. This is very normal for this to happen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, complicated.

[James Petrigallo]

It's complicated. And if you're going to will things to people, fucking make it even, or else you're going to torment these people forever.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're going to cause so many problems that will never go away.

[James Petrigallo]

Yep. And you think you're doing someone a favor when in reality you're just causing issues.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Also, if you get anything for free from a family member, take it and shut the fuck up. Because I've never gotten a goddamn thing. My whole family's dead.

[James Petrigallo]

Sammy, he didn't get anything. Apparently all he got was, you can stay on this property that's not yours now, which is so bad. I guess not. But if you own 70 acres and it was your dad's, why the fuck does Ben get it all?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why don't I get 35? Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Something. Yeah. So one of the cops said Sam was a heavy suspect after hearing that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

She said. They said the seed was definitely planted early, that he had something to do with it. They said that another person here helped Lindley quickly. Lindley asked for help to deal with the property and everything like that. So they wanted to sell and downsize Ben's 3,000 reptile stock of animals, which included the pythons that could fetch more than a million dollars. So the police talked to Sam. Okay, they're gonna talk to Sam here and now. Sam has no idea that Lindley has said anything to the cops about any beef between him and Ben at all. So Sam wondered. They said, do you know anybody that could be upset with Ben? And Sam said, honestly, I'm wondering if this might have been an act of revenge for somebody with my father. Because he pissed off a lot of people. He said he stole millions of dollars from a shitload of people. So when you got a lot of people in there, one of them could have snapped and came and fucking killed my brother. You know what I mean? How dare you thrive on this property that I should have been able to sue your father for?

[Jimmy Wisman]

And perhaps that guy doesn't know that the dad is dead and is Coming back to get the dad and just shoots whoever comes near him.

[James Petrigallo]

Who the hell knows? So that's what he said. Sam said, we were concerned, however, that, you know, someone could have been upset enough and waited and done something like this. And he said, maybe they waited so it didn't look like it was them. I'll wait a couple years and I'll do this. So Sam agreed that. He said, were you upset that your dad didn't leave you any of the property? And Sam said, of course I was. Yeah, wouldn't you be? Jesus Christ. He said, you know, he left it just to my brother. He said, quote, it wasn't an equal inheritance, but it is what it is. Life's not fair. He said, I can't afford the farm. That's an expensive place to live.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So he said, at the same time, I couldn't afford it anyway. If he gave me it to me, I would have had to sell it because I can't afford to keep it up and the taxes and everything else. So he said, I guess, you know, it was for the best. Basically. They said, are you willing to submit to a shotgun or not? Shotgun? A gunshot residue test. The cop fucked it up. And he said, yeah, anything you want, you got it. Sam said, so he said he understood why police would focus on him and Lindley because they're the closest to him. And he told the investigators because they said, what about Lindley? You think she could be involved? And he said, I can't imagine a scenario where Lindley would be involved in this. It makes no sense. Yeah, he said that. That makes no sense whatsoever. Sam said, I didn't think that Lindley would be capable of a murder like that. So Sam tests negative for gunshot residue on his hands. And he said, I provided them, you know, everything. I had my cell phone, the shirt off my back, my alibi as to where I was when the murder happened. I gave a. I gave a polygraph. I just did. In a cup. Yeah, I did it all, basically. So, yep, they confirm his alibi and all of his many myriad of fucking testing that they. He's up for.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And they decide that he's not a suspect, Sam.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, sir.

[James Petrigallo]

Not a good suspect.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Far too cooperative.

[James Petrigallo]

No. So then they said, maybe the reptile community people, but the reptile community people are just helping. They're just doing nothing but helping. The one person here, they did an online auction after that of donated snakes and raised more than $40,000 for Lindley and the kids. Wow, that's fucking great. And they said, 48 Hours asked Dav Kaufman here, you guys banded together, and he got thousands of dollars to Lindley to help her during her time of crisis. And he said, tens of thousands. Yeah, we raised tens of thousands of dollars to help Lindley and the kids. So the police go, we don't know what to do here. So they start looking through, like, Ben's social media accounts and his computers. Maybe he. Maybe he's having an affair and somebody's husband got pissed off and came and killed him. Who the fuck knows? Yeah, because otherwise there's no way that the way everybody's describing their life, there's no one that would be willing to kill him. Nothing's been taken. It's not a robbery. It wasn't even made to look like a robbery. So it doesn't make any sense. So through Facebook messages, they found out that Ben had been writing messages to Lindley talking about her cheating on him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

Lindley's been cheating, apparently.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And he. And he's confronting her via.

[James Petrigallo]

Via Facebook messenger, which is a strange place to do it together, you guys. Hey, every couple does their different things, you know what I mean? We like to sit out by the woods, have a glass of wine. They like to fucking yell at each other on Facebook. Who knows? So 11 days after the murder, the cops are like, let's bring Lindley in again here. I mean, because they're not saying she did it, but maybe her boyfriend killed her. You know, like he might have said, I want Linley all myself. I'll kill the husband. It just opens up a whole other Pandora's box of shit here, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

When you cheat on somebody, you bring another person in, and there's a new sustainable.

[James Petrigallo]

That's Pandora's got two boxes. There's Pandora's box and Pandora's box of shit. That's a totally different box that you don't want to open. Yeah. So 11 days after the murder, she sits down, talks to him again. And the cop said, so have you been talking to anyone or did you have a relationship? And this is when she admits it, because they know. And she says, eric ar. I see. Eric.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Of course it is.

[James Petrigallo]

He sounds like a man with snakes, too. Eric.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, sounds like a nightmare.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said, how often did you guys hook up? She said, maybe like once or twice a month, every two weeks. That's a lot. She admitted she'd been unfaithful, and they said it was. Or was it just sex? And she said, yeah, it was just sex. And they said, did he think about it the same way. Did he think it was just sex or do you think you had a relationship going? She said, yeah, no, he knew it was just sex. This was a sexual relationship. So they end up going, we'd love to have a chit chat with this fucking guy to make sure he's as casual as you are. So they do and they check his alibi and he was on a trip with friends at the time of the murder. Like eight people saw him and he wasn't even. Wasn't even in the state. So impossible that he did it. So they're like, fuck, square one shit. So then they look at there's problems with bills. They learn through Facebook messages. Again, they communicate all of their major problems through Facebook messenger, which is a strange. I guess that's how they. That's how they hook back up again. So, yeah, face this, it's our. It's our format. That's all. It's our platform. We love it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I opened that app and I just think of you.

[James Petrigallo]

I just get you all warm and fuzzy. So also they learn through these messages that Lindley was having trouble paying her business loans and owed thousands of dollars. Vendors and banks and things like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Paul Mitchell, Vidal Sassoon, they're all coming for their peers.

[James Petrigallo]

They're coming for your ass. That's the thing. You don't want to fuck with Fidel Sassoon. He will come for you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn.

[James Petrigallo]

That fucking kangaroo on the Aussie thing, he'll come for you. They said Ben was having Paul Mitchell. Forget it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's a bad man.

[James Petrigallo]

He's a bad man, that Paul Mitchell. She said Ben was having to front a lot of bills for Lindley Spa and this created a really big wedge between the two, said one of the cops. Yeah, so they said after we started to find out about. This is a cop talking. After we started to find out about boyfriends, the shape the spa was in, how much money she owed, it just started pushing Sam to the side as a suspect.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So then they find out the insurance agent that was handling the life insurance policy also contacted.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really.

[James Petrigallo]

After learning that Lindley was a suspect, they decided to pause paying the $1 million life insurance policy that he had.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A million.

[James Petrigallo]

A million he had on him. So the police, the agent told police that Lindley had begun trying to cash that policy within hours of the death. She was on the phone with. The same day, the same day she was on the phone with Lisa.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When you got to bury somebody, you're going to need that money now.

[James Petrigallo]

Fuck, dude, that's. That's crazy, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A million dollar license policy and within hours of.

[James Petrigallo]

Within hours, you can't do that. So then they found out that Lyn Lee was also trying to sell the farm and Ben's reptile business. The week of the murder, like two days after the murder, she's taught she's got the farms for sale. The fucking reptile business is up. Let's go. She's trying to cash the fuck out. Then they interview someone here. They're like, well, who the hell does she hang out with that might know anything about her? Well, how about that manager from the spa? From her spa. That's her friend, Ashley Shaw. Let's talk to her. She's an employee and a close friend and maybe she's confided in Ashley some shit. So she does. And Ashley says, I mean, this is in a police interview. I mean, I'm sure that, you know, she was having an affair. And they say, uh huh. And Ashley says, a couple of affairs, actually.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, she's horny.

[James Petrigallo]

She is a horny one here. So Ashley said that Lindley had been seeing another man named Brandon Blackwell who she had met on a dating website. This isn't even. She went on a fucking site to find other people to bang. It's not even like they work together or they ran into each other through mutual friends. She was like, I need different penis. Let me look through this site. That's the only reason to look through a dating website.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're not. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Since I've been with Sarah, I've never. I've honestly. I've never, honestly ever before looked on a dating website anyway. But I've never. I would. There'd be no reason for me to look at a dating website.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't even know.

[James Petrigallo]

Absolutely not. No fucking clue ever. Thank fuck for that. That's all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I couldn't be happier that I sidestepped all of them.

[James Petrigallo]

You know that over 60% of people now meet through dating apps?

[Jimmy Wisman]

60% of 60% are together through right now.

[James Petrigallo]

60%. It used to be up until 15 years ago and for like 100 years before that it was 60% friends and family would meet.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Would introduce you, you know. Oh, dude.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yo, she's got a friend that's chick.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, you. Let's all get together, Rabbit a party come up. That's how people used to meet and get together.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And now they're like, wherever.

[James Petrigallo]

You can't go up and talk to someone now they're like, ew, what are you doing? You didn't even send Me a fucking instant message first. This is crazy. What's wrong with you? DM me first. What the fuck?

[Jimmy Wisman]

You didn't even request this yet.

[James Petrigallo]

You just walked up crazy. Yeah. So they talked to, they talk about this and she said she was met him on a dating website. She said Lindley was hooking up with Brandon before Ben's murder. She said, I know Brandon was like a really short time before that, you know, like the day before.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Then they find out about more affairs. They check Lindley's phone records to look for evidence of other shit. And they find a number reported belonging to Brandon Blackwell that came up frequently. That's the one she was talking about. So they talked to Brandon Blackwell.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

Sit down, chief. And the cops said they had started a sexual affair. And it turned out was just three days before the murder this happened. They started an affair. So she just.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She slept with a man three days before her husband was murdered.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, well, a new guy, she was already fucking another guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So she just, just began banging for the first time three days before.

[James Petrigallo]

Now Blackwell has a rock solid alibi though during the time of the murder. That's the thing. But at the weird part is while this investigation is going on and they're talking to Blackwell and they go, well, he's got a rock solid investigation. All of a sudden Lindley goes public with her relationship with Blackwell and their boyfriend, girlfriend now. Oh, that real fast this happens.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everybody is aware of it now.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, social media and everything. There are pictures of him together and. Yep. And Sam, Ben's brother, said, we started to see Lindley's social media accounts pop up with another man. And then very quickly after that we found out she was pregnant.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

Liz Lindley is fertile. She is fertile.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's.

[James Petrigallo]

So far she's, as we know, that we know of, she's fucked four people and three of them have impregnated her. So that's crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She just taken loads without any sort of apparently caution. Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Caution to the wind here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My God, that's a tough game to be playing.

[James Petrigallo]

That's a real tough game. So I don't know, that's going to be her third kid. She said Lindley entered into the relationship with Brandon Blackwell almost immediately after the time of the murder. Brandon was married and had two kids by the way. So they're wrecking multiple homes here also. That's the other problem. Everybody's a fucking disaster here. So then they look at more Facebook messages and they discover Facebook messages between the Ben and Lindley, those ones. And they said that the spa is losing money and all that. One Facebook message, by the way, one was sent to Lindley just hours before he was murdered, and that was this. This is the one he sent to her hours before that day. No more lying. No more keeping things from me. No more not paying people and thinking it's okay to pay later. In other words, he caught her for all of her lies that she's been in, except for the affairs. But no more lying, no more keeping. This is all the business stuff they're talking about. Nevermind. If he finds out she's banging a couple other people, he's really going to be upset.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just 72 hours ago, she was screaming some other guy's name.

[James Petrigallo]

Fuck. Yeah. So a stupid name too. So four months later, this is four months after the murder, they bring Lindley back in to talk to her again because they're like, we can't get past her. Everybody else clears except for her. So they said, will you take a polygraph? And she said, no problem, you got it. Take a polygraph. So in there they said, how did you think after the polygraph? They said, how'd you think you did, Lindley? And she said, oh, I think I did well, and not quite. They said, quote, so the results of your polygraph show that you failed the test. When I asked you, did you shoot that man, you were deceptive. Yeah, that's kind of the only question we were real concerned about is did you shoot him?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's the one that we cared about.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. And that's the only. You fucked up on that one pretty bad. She said, I can't explain why, I just failed that. But I didn't kill Ben. I don't know why. I mean, in some people, when they say, did you shoot that person? Your shit might. Heart rate might go through the roof because, you know, who knows? But she said, I can't explain it. So I don't know. I don't know. Then they ended up getting her phone records and saw text messages they found between her and Mike Humphrey. Remember Mike Humphrey, the pill dealer from back in the day? She's talking to him again.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn it.

[James Petrigallo]

Okay. Lindley told the cops that Mike was Mike Humphrey, a client she used to work on as well as an old boyfriend. The cops said, quote, they talked the whole day of the murder and they haven't talked since.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

That's. He said, a little bit of a red flag when we see that. When we see them then separate.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Are you holding back on travel plans this holiday break because you're afraid of the language gaps. Well, no need to mind the gap if you have Babbel Speak like a whole new you With Babbel, the language learning app that gets you talking with quick 10 minute lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts, Babbel gets you talking a new language in three weeks. And because talking is the key to really knowing a language, Babbel is designed for real conversation. Here's a special holiday deal for wondry listeners right now get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription but only for our [e-mail] truecrime get up to 60% off at babbel.com truecrime spelled B A B B E L.com truecrime rules and restrictions may apply. This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight you can send money to kids instantly, set up chores automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Sign up for greenlight [e-mail] wondery that's.

[James Petrigallo]

Greenlight.Com wondery so they interviewed Michael Humphrey and he claimed that they reconnected because Ashley Shaw, the business manager, wanted some stereo work done and he could provide that service because he installed shit like that. So they asked Lindley about Mike Humphreys and they said, listen, we know you've been talking to this guy. We know you've been talking to Michael Humphrey, by the way. We know he's your ex boyfriend, by the way. We also know that he's fresh out of prison on drug charges as well. We know all of this. We know you texted and called him numerous times including, well, really up to and including the day your husband was murdered and then not at all after. So we'd like to talk to you about that. Lynn says, oh, he was coming in for massages. Yeah, penis massages is what those are. Different kind of massage is what that is. Yeah, you know, dick, balls, that whole area. I really massage Sean Watson massage, you know that massage? Yeah, we call it the Travolta around here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, the Watson, the craft, they're all the same.

[James Petrigallo]

All the same shit. So he was coming in for massages and the officer said, yeah, but the thing is that right there is very suspicious that you haven't talked to him since she Starts crying at that point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petrigallo]

Breaks down crying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I thought that would look great. It looks bad.

[James Petrigallo]

It looks bad. But she continued to deny her involvement even though they broke her here. She said, I don't have anything to do with this. And they said, there's so much circumstantial evidence in this case against you, it's mind boggling is what they tell her. And she said, I need to get my children. And she gets up and they go, well, I'll walk you out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They don't have enough to arrest her, so they have to let her leave. That's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just bully her all the way out.

[James Petrigallo]

That's it. I'll walk you out. Yeah. You fucking bitch. That's right. Yeah. Go pick your kids up. Teach them what a fucking liar looks like. And a murderer, you scumbag. Fuck you. Fucking who? I look at you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We don't believe a word of it.

[James Petrigallo]

What, do you got four or five more boyfriends out there, you fucking skank. That's right. And she's like, will you leave me alone?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm a mother.

[James Petrigallo]

I'm a mother. So that's what she does. She leaves the office and that's that. They move on. There's nothing more they can do at this point. Blackwell leaves his wife, Brandon Blackwell. Lyn Lee has a court battle against Sam because she wants to sell the farm. And Sam's like, you're not selling my family farm. My brother barely had it. Now you have it. She won, though. She won the court battle. She owns it. So the farm sold for $740,000.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So she moved to Columbia, Missouri, with Brandon Blackwell and all of their children. A whole Brady Bunch.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Five of them.

[James Petrigallo]

He's got two, she's got three. So it's damn near a Brady Bunch here. Sam said, I lost a farm that my family spent 40 years maintaining. We could have never imagined losing the farm in that way. Yeah, just some. To some chicks out that your brother was married to for a couple years. So they said that I guess just weeks after the murder, her spa business was failing. Lindley sold the property, closed up shop in her spa business and fucking took off. They said. Okay, so she was there one day and the next day she left and then never came back. Which is goddamn crazy. This is a woman named Beth Mayberry. Says that. Who's described by 48 Hours as Beth Mayberry, works at that same location. But she was just one more true crime buff in Columbia, Missouri, riveted to a case without a conclusion. And they asked her how much is this Renick case talked about around here? And she said, it's a lot. A lot. There's 800 people here. We ain't got much else to talk about here. They say. And what do people say? What do they think? And Betts said, crazy. It's crazy. And people did start to wonder, maybe Lindley did it. Maybe she had someone do this. It became a question. I would fucking hope so. 2018 is when Lindley and Brandon's baby is born. Okay, let's add another one to the mix here. So 2019, still no arrest. Two years later. And Sam said, I wasn't sure what to think. I just didn't. He thought it would never be solved.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said he was just left completely uneasy. He said it was very, very tough knowing that someone was out there and that had essentially gotten away with murder. I was concerned for my own safety. And without an arrest, you know, everybody is concerned at this point. So DAV Kaufman said, quote, so when the case goes cold, we would all connect with each other, asking if anybody had some information on what was going on. They formed like a phone tree, you know, like a snaking, you know. Said it was frustrating. It was frustrating to have all this time pass and not have a culprit in custody. He said. Then he said the fucking creepiest snake person thing that could ever be said. Quote, humans do things other than what you would expect. Snakes do not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, he's trying to say why snakes are better than people type of thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not like. Like dogs are. Yeah, it's not that. No, we don't deserve snakes. We don't deserve shame. We outlive snakes. Isn't a shame.

[James Petrigallo]

Snake doesn't care about you at all. And would just wants to eat shit and move on. But still, you know, it's like a person. So Lindley is acting weird. They say here, Sam said about Lindley's weirdness, quote, we wanted to be as understanding as possible. However, in time, when she refused to talk to us or allow the kids or even receive my brother's belongings, we knew something was wrong.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

She's like, I just want nothing to do with you people. 2019, here shocking her and Brandon's relationship not going so well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is it? Rocky.

[James Petrigallo]

Surprising here she took out a restraining order against him and in 2020, he was. January 2020, he was arrested for violating the restraining order.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

Of course, she alleged he become threatening and that they had broken up. She got an order of protection and he was then charged with violating that order and stalking her. And he denies the charges.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he's a stalker. Okay.

[James Petrigallo]

She said that Blackwell was threatening to accuse her of murder in the application for the order of protection. That's what she said.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why does he say that?

[James Petrigallo]

We'll find out. January 2020, he's in jail. And when people sit in jail, they really want to get out is the thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, they tend to have some epiphanies in there, too.

[James Petrigallo]

They'll grasp for straws and snakes and whatever else they could find to get the fuck out of somewhere. So they go to talk to him and. Because he asked his father to call the cops and have them come talk to him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said, we're investigators with the highway patrol. I'm here because he used to be dating Lindley. Your dad gave me a call today and said that you wanted to talk to us. And Brandon said, yeah, my main concern is getting out of that cell right now. He straight up, he's like, how do I get the fuck out of here?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said, now you're coming to us when you're in a pickle. So. And he said, right. So basically, you need a whole lot of bargaining power because you're the one who's fucked, not us.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You get it?

[James Petrigallo]

You know? So he told investigators that Lindley's spa was in financial trouble. Ben knew his wife was withdrawing money, needed to keep it going, and had the financial means to take her children away from her, is what Brandon said. They said he described Lindley's confessions to him, saying that when they would talk about it, she would put their phones in a separate room to make sure nobody was recording anything or eavesdropping or, you know, you accidentally said, siri, call the fucking highway patrol or some shit. Siri, call homicide detectives. Anyway, so that is. I hope that didn't fuck anything up with my phone. It's across the room. I'm going to have homicide detectives on my phone after I just said that. So she said, he said about her that they would put the phones in the other room and then they would talk about it and he would ask her to tell it again. Apparently, the plotting to kill Ben took place at the spa in the shopping plaza. In the Cherry Hill shopping plaza in Columbia, Missouri. He said that Lindley planned it with a coworker and also called up Mike Humphrey, obviously your scumbag pill dealer boyfriend, ex boyfriend. And he would come to the spa for a massage sometimes. Anyway, so this Brandon Blackwell says that Lindley told him the week before Ben was murdered that she tried and failed to kill him. This wasn't the first attempt to kill him. This is fucking crazy. Okay, according to this, according to Brandon, Ashley Shaw, the coworker spa manager, helped her obtain Percocets. Which doesn't seem like with Mike around, you'd have to look too far for those, but. And come up with a plan to poison Ben. That was the original plan.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They were going to overdose him with perks.

[James Petrigallo]

Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a brutal way to hurt somebody.

[James Petrigallo]

He said that they whipped up what he called a toxic shake for him. He said, quote, he was given a protein drink one night that was laced full of enormous amounts of narcotics and somehow lived through it. But the plan was for that to be the last day of his life. And Lindley gave it to him and all that kind of shit. She said. And they said, well, how do you know? Did you hear this from someone? And he said, my information is out of the horse's mouth. She fucking told me face to face. They said after they crushed up 15 percocets and put it in a milkshake or some kind of shake. That's not enough. People have fun with that. Well, not me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, people take 30 of those in a day.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, but if you're not used to taking 30, that's a lot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It also depends on the strength of them. They could be small perks, they could be big.

[James Petrigallo]

The other thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn it, 15.

[James Petrigallo]

So Blackwell tells police that Lindley reached out to Michael Humphrey and asked him for help. Okay. Now, while they're doing this, by the way, they're trying to match this up with Lindley's phone and text records to make sure this all matches up. And Brandon's not just talking shit to get out of a jail cell.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

So when the pills failed, Lindley turned to Michael Humphrey. He said, they drove to the farm, he had gloves, he had a firearm. The plan was for him to do it. They get there, and he hands her the gun and says he doesn't feel comfortable doing it. I barely know the guy. You know, killing is such a personal thing. You know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who benefits from this then?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I don't know why I'm doing this. Here's a gun for you. He says he's uncomfortable. It's something that she's got to take care of. She walks in with the gun and just shoots him a bunch of times. And then, according to him, Ashley Shaw comes back into the picture. Now, they said that Brandon told police that Ashley was in on it immediately from the Start of the planning. She's been there on this conspiracy the whole time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

Whole time? Yep. So they obtain a search warrant for everybody's Facebook accounts and all that. And they confirm the story of the protein drink messages between all these people.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petrigallo]

They also confirmed that Ben knew of his wife's financial problems. On the day of the killing, Mike Humphrey picked Lindley up at the spa. And the employee Ashley sent her text messages from her phone, which remained behind. Okay, yeah. So it looked like if they checked the tower, she's still there. Which is smart. That's a smart move. Which remained behind along with Humphreys phone to cover their movements. So she would say he came in for a massage that day. That's what. Look at our phone. So the evidence at the scene indicated that Ben knew his killer because where he was found, how he was killed, nothing. He turned his back to someone in his own business and trusted them. So that makes perfect sense. They said it was initially. The plan initially was for Humphrey to kill Ben. While basically Lindley was going to say that she brought Mike over there to look at the snake barn. Hey, check out how cool it is. But then he was going to shoot her now anyway. They also said that, but Mike had told Lindley that he didn't do it because if she changed her mind and regretted it later, he didn't want her to be mad at him later for shooting her husband. He watched.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I will fuck her sometime.

[James Petrigallo]

Maybe I will fuck her. He watched the killing, picked up a couple of the shell casings. Missed more of them though. They felt like three of them under his body and one on a shelf by his head. So very bad at picking up shell casings. And then the two of them, Lindley and Mike returned to the spa where she showered, get the gunshot residue off of her and her coworker bagged up her clothes. Mike took them out and got rid of them and disposed of them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy shit.

[James Petrigallo]

This is a fucking plot. Yeah. I mean, the mafia has less organized hits than this. This is crazy. She took a shower to get. This was planned down to. We don't want our cell phones to be right. Like that's a big plan. So they arrest Mike Humphrey. And they said that Lindley to Mike had. They said, why did you do this? And Mike said, well, Lindley had spun this tale of domestic violence and domestic abuse. Ben's been beating her, raping her, all this shit. So I figured I would help. And this cop said Michael believed this. Michael wanted to help. He brought her the gun to her Spa. In case she needed it. That was what it was. And that's what Ashley said, too. Like here, in case your husband comes after you again. Now, Mike's story here is. That's his story. He said that, you know, that he told Lindley that Police. Lindley asked him to go with her to see Ben. And she said that. She said that she was leaving him. This is what she told Mike. I'm leaving Ben, and I want to pick up my stuff. So will you come with me to make sure I'm safe? Okay. When they arrived at the Snake facility, Lindley had the gun with her. He said he had previously brought it for her in case she needed it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Humphrey, though, claimed Lindley tried to hand him the gun. And he said, I'm not fucking. I don't want the fucking gun. It's your husband. You want him dead, shoot him. So when Ben opened the door, he said that she. You know, he turned around to walk back in, and that's when she shot him right there. Humphrey said, quote, I turned around as soon as the first shot rang, I ran out the door. I heard possibly another one, maybe two. And by that time, I'm standing by the car asking her, what the fuck just happened? You know what I mean? And she's like, we gotta go. We gotta go. He left out at least four more shots too, by the way. So January 16, 2020, Lindley is finally arrested.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

They're gonna arrest her? Yes. Now, she claims she enlisted Humphrey to accompany her to the snake breeding facility. Where she planned to break up with Ben the day that he was killed. And Ben freaked out. So DAV Kaufman said they asked him, what was this like for you to find out that it was her, this woman you've been trying to help for years and everything? He said, disbelief. I thought they got the wrong person. No way. And Sam said it took us years to find out. Find out that Lindley was lying and that she was living a double life. Sociopath. If you look that up, Lindley's picture will be sitting right there with definition.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've heard that a lot. So, should we look?

[James Petrigallo]

I think we should. I don't think it's there. This will say image and sociopath isn't really a medical. That's not really. That exists either. It's a lot of that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, it's crazy. It's a lot, really. Like, posters with.

[James Petrigallo]

Not a strawberry blonde chick.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, no. Sociopath versus psychopath. That's. No, it's a whole bunch of that.

[James Petrigallo]

That's interesting, but not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There is. There's a strawberry blonde girl, Patrice Patrick. Oh, gain. Oh, it's a book. It's a little girl.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know what this woman looks like, but I guarantee you these are not her.

[James Petrigallo]

Not her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hyperbole, James.

[James Petrigallo]

Hyperbole, hyperbole, hyperbole. See what happens. So she said, Sam said Lindley stood to gain millions aliens from the death of my brother. Between the life insurance, the sale of the snakes, and the family farm she would inherit, it was significant. It took a lot of time just to process, you know, the lies that were given by Lindley. So Ashley gets arrested. Ashley Shaw from work gets arrested, too. She's been in a murder plot. And they said to Ashley, now is the time. Ashley, she's a chick named Ashley up for murder. So they're like, listen, chick, which side do you want to be on? They said, you're either on Team Lindley or you're on Team Missouri. And Team Lindley's going to jail. They're going to prison for first degree murder. So which side do you want to be on? And she said, I'd love to be on Team Missouri if possible, if you have an extra roster spot for me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Missouri seems to be recruiting pretty hard.

[James Petrigallo]

I mean, you seem to be good here. Yeah, I like the engineering department, you know. So she said, but. But they do make a deal for her to get prosecutorial immunity, though. Okay, I want immunity before I'll say shit. And they go, well, she was the least culpable of anybody, so fine. She told the officer she agreed to help Lindley kill Ben because Lindley said she was in an abusive relationship. She said that she's the one who got the Percocet and helped find Michael Humphrey again. Wow. Yeah. That's wild, man. She said, yes, we did make a. A smoothie, a poison smoothie. And, you know, Ashley kept saying that Lindley kept telling her that Bennett abused her. She said, quote, she asked if I could get any thing, any prescription pills or anything with the amount that could help her kill him. And so I got her perk. It was Percocet. I'm pretty sure that. And then there was, I think 15 of them is what she said.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Mashed him up in a blueberry smoothie and had him drink it.

[James Petrigallo]

And.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And he had a great Friday night.

[James Petrigallo]

He said, ugh, si. Acai is disgusting. And he threw it away. God, why do people eat that shit? So when Lindley and Mike Humphrey were at the farm, she also helped to establish an alibi for Lindley sending texts and correspondence on her phone to make it look like she was not only at the spa, but actively playing with her phone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petrigallo]

Dick with my phone. While I'm at. While I'm gone. Now, according to Ashley, after the shooting, Lindley claimed Michael Humphrey was the trigger man. Yeah, that's interesting. But she says a few days later Lindley changed her story and admitted she was the one who did the shooting. So Lindley. No, Lindley told Brandon, Lindley told Ashley, and that's what Mike says too. So I'm going to go ahead with. Lindley did the shooting here, you know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fucked up, man.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, real fucked up. It's one thing to get someone else to do it, to put. To shoot your own husband five, six times in the back and then go up to the head and boom. That's a fucking cold motherfucker right there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

While a man that stood nearby.

[James Petrigallo]

Yep, that's fucking scared. So Ashley said. And she said, oh, no. Once we got there, I was fine to do it. And so he handed me the gun and I did it. She was cold as fucking ice, which isn't good.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And then she was like, oh, yeah, I can do it.

[James Petrigallo]

I could do this. So they said, after the murder, was she ever remorseful at all? And Ashley said, never. Not once. They said. She ever seemed sorry? And she said, never. No. She was happy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Scare you to thrill. Why the fuck are you still hanging out with her?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, this is. I'm not hanging out with you anymore, I think is the way this goes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My God.

[James Petrigallo]

So Lindley's attorney says that they argue that the state's case isn't based on the truth truth, but based on the fearful coerced testimony of Ashley Shaw. That's all it is. She was just scared, they said. They told her, you're either on Team Lindley or you're on Team Missouri and Team Lindley's going to jail for first degree murder. Who the fuck would. Yeah, so they said, you know, how would that affect her? And the attorney said, this is Lindley's attorney said, well, if Ashley Shaw ever wants to leave that interview room for the rest of her life or for the indefinite future, she's going to change her story and tell them what they want to hear. So the other defense attorney said it was only after that threat that she changed her story and implicated Lindley Renick. Well, yeah, when she found out she's in trouble. Why else would she tell them she's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In trouble and that we're going to give you no punishment for this yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So, I mean, we'll give you immunity. Well, fuck. Might as well, right? Let's chat. Screw it. Yeah, why not? So, October 2021. Mike Humphreys going to trial. He's the first one. The prosecution says that Lindley fired the gun and Humphrey was in on the plan. Prosecutor said that he was in on the plotting, provided the weapon and helped knock off the husband. That was all that. The murder weapons never been recovered, by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petrigallo]

His defense argued that Humphrey had been lured to the snake farm by Lindley, who claimed she wanted protection when asking Ben for a divorce. Lindley had then surprised him, pulled out a gun, shot her husband. So they said they painted him as kind of a. This is her lawyer said they painted him as kind of a fawning suitor of this pretty, blonde, petite snake salesman. That's how they painted. Like this poor guy doesn't know what he's doing. So there's. I mean, they have a lot of evidence on him because he admitted everything he told. Gave him a whole rundown of what he did and what happened. So that he can either be convicted of first degree murder, second degree murder, even. The prosecution says he didn't pull the trigger. It was Lindley.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Okay. Jury deliberates for five hours to figure out what they're gonna give him and they find him guilty, obviously of first degree murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I guess so. Right.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. Well, sentencing comes around and you, sir, may off life without parole. He is life without.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, I guess he's lucky it's not death in Missouri.

[James Petrigallo]

If I'm getting life without, I want to get my money's worth. Like I would want to hate the person and have fucking killed them myself. To get life without for this is like. This is a ripoff. I could have done. I could have. I could have cut his head off and went bowling with it, for Christ's sake. I would have got the same. Yeah, this is crazy. I didn't even kill this motherfucker. So. So he gets that. Sam, the brother, says Lindley is a manipulator. And I truly believe that that man was manipulated into where he is right now. He's like, I don't even blame him. That's her. That's who I fucking blame. Right afterwards, though, after he's convicted and sentenced, his lawyers go to the prosecutors and says he'd like to have a chat with you guys about something. So he agrees to cooperate with the state at this point, testify against Lindley and bring them the murder weapon if they redo his Sentencing reinforcement. Make it second degree. Yep. I want second degree and a smaller sentence. And it's not like 10 years they're talking about. Life with parole. He wants second degree and life with parole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll do 25 as long as I can get out at the end.

[James Petrigallo]

As long as there's some light at the end of this fucking tunnel here. So he now admits with this, he admits that he provided the gun that Lindley used, like she said. And he also tells them where they can find it. Which is where? His girlfriend's mother's attic.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get out of here.

[James Petrigallo]

That's where the murder weapon's been this whole time. Not in a river.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Not in a field. Not buried somewhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Break down somewhere in a grandma's attic.

[James Petrigallo]

Keeping all that forensics nice with the humidity in there. Really keeping it going warm. Nice and warm in there. Humphrey then helped police track down the weapon and he agreed to testify against her at trial. His conviction is lowered to a second degree murder and parole is now back on the table for him. So now he's second degree murder, life with parole. So they said, leading them to the weapon, giving the statements about Lindley, he'd get a lesser sentence instead of life without parole, he'd get life in prison with the option of parole and he'd get second degree murder. So December 2021 is Lindley's trial. Now they got Mike to testify against her. This trial, what was he paid in this?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Anything or just.

[James Petrigallo]

No, nothing. Nothing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petrigallo]

Happy ending? I don't know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This guy's a fucking idiot.

[James Petrigallo]

He's an idiot. He had sex with her, you know, seven years ago. So now he's still doing it. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fucking moron.

[James Petrigallo]

This guy's an idiot. So December 2021 is her trial. Finally, the prosecutor said the defendant, Lindley Renick shot her husband Ben eight times, killing him. We're going to come back and ask that you find her guilty. The prosecution paints her as a cold blooded. They paint her as they say at one point, she's as cold blooded as one of her husband's snakes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

You knew they're going to compare her to a snake approximately 7,000 times during this trial.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's a snake in the grass. She's a slitherer.

[James Petrigallo]

That's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Snuck up on her prey, all that shit.

[James Petrigallo]

She's a killer who shot her husband Ben, then went about her daily routine as if nothing happened. That's what she did, you know, she said she goes to the school, picks up her two children and drives them back to the place where she knows she's going to find their father's dead body because she killed them. She left it there. She left it there. Now, the defense here, they say that Lindley and Humphrey went to the snake farm to talk to Ben about divorcing his wife. And Lindley heard Lindley was taking the trash out. And she heard several gunshots as she was taking the trash out. And they said that, yes, she did lie and cheat on Ben, but that doesn't make her a killer. I mean, come on. Her defense attorney says she is not planning a murder, she's planning a divorce. That's what this was all about, all this setup. You know what I mean? Obviously, you want to try to poison the person before you divorce them. And then they point the finger at Michael Humphrey. They say Michael Humphrey took it upon himself acting compared completely independently to take Ben's life. They're saying she. Yep. He asked, can I go out there and look at this farm? And then, you know, boom. Shot him up here. He said, there's so many aspects of Ashley Shaw's story that are simply not credible. Also, and the defense attorney says Lindley Renick has zero ability with a gun. She has no interest in guns. Is that right? Doesn't know dick about guns. So how's she going to do this? Ashley Shaw gets on the stand and the prosecutor says, you two actually attempted to kill Ben Renick. And she said, yeah, I do. I did. We did with the Percocet. And he said, do you regret it? And she said, absolutely. It was the biggest mistake of my life. What's she going to say? No? Yeah. The only thing I regret is I didn't put enough fucking perks in that thing. He should have been dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I regret that. I could only afford 15.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, that's all I had. So the first plan, she tells the jury about the Percocet shake there. And she then said that they sought help from Michael Humphrey. And they said that he seemed promising because, quote, Lindley said he had a prior record of being in trouble. So she thought he had a history and that maybe he knew people that would take care of this for her. She knows murderers and such. Ashley said Michael was going to come to the spa and they were going to. They were going to go together to her house to his business to kill him at home or at work. She says after the murder, Lindley returned to the spa to wash herself off and, you know, get all the gun powder residue and shit. Kind of like Jason Williams in the Crime and Sports went For a dip in the pool afterwards. So the prosecutor said. So Lindley goes back there and she tells you to do what? And Ashley says to give her a shower. She asked me to scrub her body and her hands really well. You can't scrub your own body.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petrigallo]

She went in there was like, rub my tits, will you? Just scrub them. Rub me. Yes. No.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Did Mike at least get to beat off to this?

[James Petrigallo]

This is. I was going to say, did Mike get to watch this at all? Because that would have been something anyway. A post murder fucking. A post murder girl on girl shower at that. There's gotta be a porn where that's involved in it, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Certainly. If it's not porn, it's in a. There's a horror movie somewhere, Something.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. The guy just whacking it in the corner, just fucking tugging. So then Ashley tells the jurors what Lindley told her about what really happened. She confided in her. Ashley said. She said that Michael got too nervous or didn't want to do it, and so he handed her the gun and she actually killed him. She said that she put the gun to his back. To the back to his back, and shot him several times. But they said that the defense says she made all that up to avoid prison. This is all made up, cross examination. They said, how are you able to be so calm when you're being questioned about murders that you evidently claim to be so involved in? How is that Ashley?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And she says, I don't know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm fucking cold, man.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. They mean right now in court.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Maybe she's just not afraid of public speaking. Ever think of that? This isn't a big deal with a lot of people.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know, man. If you weren't.

[James Petrigallo]

She's got process. She's got immunity, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So why would she not. I wasn't there. I didn't watch it. She told me about it, and I'm having no penalty for this. I'll tell you anything you want to know about this.

[James Petrigallo]

Don't give a shit. Yep. And then they asked her, you know, why she and Lindley had talked about murder at the spa in a public place. Because they don't. They're like, you didn't actually do that. And they said, as soon as someone hears you, you guys could go to jail. Right? And she said, I don't know. So all these aggressive questions, she literally just answers with, I don't know. It just takes all the steam out of them. So then they said, you don't know because you guys never tried to kill Ben. Isn't that right, Ashley? And she said, that's not true. Yeah, we did.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, we definitely try.

[James Petrigallo]

They go, well, let's bring up Mike Humphrey here. They display a set of texts that they said that Lindley had sent to Michael Humphrey, who had obviously already convicted, trying to corroborate that the two were orchestrating this whole murder plot. And the texts show that Lindley sent to Humphrey asking whether he was making a trip to Columbia that day when he was delayed by car trouble. Her text became more urgent. At the same time, she was texting her husband about routine household and personal matters. While that was going on, she's asking Humphrey, are you on your way? Where are you? What's going on? And they keep going back and forth. Humphrey is testified that he met her at the business about 3:45pm they drove out to the farm. His last text message to his wife, by the way, Ben's to Lindley, was, do I need to get the kids now? At 4pm a text message was returned to him telling him to pick up the kids. Then an hour later, another text was sent to him saying, I'll meet you and the kids at home. But the school called Lindley at 5:45 to tell her no one had picked up the kids. And that's where this all started. So at that point, they hold up a gun and they say, now what am I holding? Michael Humphrey? And he says, that's my gun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's my pistol.

[James Petrigallo]

He said, that's what your gun is, right? They said, that's what your gun is? And he said, yes. What a weird question. That's what your gun is. This is your gun? Yes. He says, I heard a shot come out, which is a weird way to put a shot come out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So I kind of ducked a little bit and I looked through down. I looked down through, through there and she was at the end of the corridor, or whatever you want to call it, posted up like this with the gun, like pointing. So he said that he saw with his eyes Lindley fire shots at her husband in the Snake facility. As he was running to get outside, away from her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He saw her shoot.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, he's had a. She had a gun out. He tried to take off and she shot him in the fucking back. That's wild. So they said, would it be fair to hear that you heard several after the initial shot? And he said, yes. They said, what happens next? She runs around to the passenger side of the car and starts screaming at me to drive Drive. Basically like a fucking getaway from a bank robbery. Drive, drive, drive. Holy shit. During cross examination, they make a point to point out that Humphrey was under the influence of methamphetamines at the time of the murder. Let's throw some meth into this whole thing. And they noted that the gun appeared to be Humphreys and remained in his possession. So what the fuck? Basically, right, Lindley's friend and family, friends and family testify here. Brittany Bishop was one of her friends. And by the way, there's another woman named Rachel Hunt who worked at the spa, who also knew about the plot who ended up getting immunity too. In this case. She wasn't quite as involved as Ashley, but she told a bunch of people about this. Wow. This isn't just one person she told and they're turning on her. This is everybody she told.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is she doing?

[James Petrigallo]

She thought that everybody likes me and I'll like have a bunch of money and they'll all just kiss my ass. That's what she thought.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And she told them all that she was in this abusive relationship and they all bought it.

[James Petrigallo]

They all bought it because. Yeah, why not? I mean, maybe she. We don't know, maybe it was. I don't fucking know if there was any abuse there or whatever, but there's ways of going about it other than this is what we're saying. So Bishop here, Brittany Bishop, a long time friend, lifelong friend of Lindley, said that Lindley is a quiet and meek person who's more of a follower than a leader. And she's never seen Lindley handle firearms or be violent in any way, shape or form. She said that she called Lindley after hearing about the snake attack that happened to her poor husband there. And Lindley was hysterical when she answered. She said she was just in hysterics, going crazy. Bishop stayed with Lindley at the Renick household in the days and weeks after the death to help take care of her and help feed the kids and stuff because she's such a mess. So many snakes. She said, quote, she was a wreck. She acted as though her whole world had fallen apart and it just had. We were having a hard time getting her to eat and drink. We had to force it on her. Yeah, she's so depressed. They said that she never thought Lindley could have killed her husband. And she said that she was a person which Lindley could confide and, you know, she didn't hear anything about it. She said, quote, this is. But Bishop, or. Yeah, he said, quote, you were wrong about her. To Bishop this is the prosecutor. She lied about all the affairs she was engaged in, which was true. She never told this girl about that. So April Shaw here, she's gonna testify, obviously. And they're talking about. She's talking about how, for Lindley, how Lindley was acting after the death, because they recall her to the stand. She said she was very distraught. She wasn't drinking, wasn't eating well. We were having a hard time getting her out of bed or doing much of anything, said April Shaw. Now, Shaw is an infusion nurse specializing in patients with bleeding disorders, such as, unfortunately, not being shot eight times. That's not one of the disorders she can handle, such as hemophilia. That's how April met Lindley, because Lindley's father was getting treatments for a genetic disorder that causes this. And that's how they met. So they became friends there, April and Lindley. Lindley never shared with April about her affairs, her presence at the snake breeding facility around the time of her husband's death, or her spa's financial issues. Under questioning, she said she would not have expected to be the kind of friend for Lindley that knew more details, intimate details of her life. They said that the defense attorney made an argument that a person not eating also could be stress induced, such as law enforcement investigations surrounding the circumstances of a spouse's death. This could be normal. So her dad testifies that his daughter's not a violent person and while does not have extensive experience with firearms, he has seen her shoot a gun before. She knows how to shoot a gun, knows how to operate it, knows how to aim it. He's done it with her, he said. Yep. He said when she was young, he wanted his daughters to understand the weight of a gun. In this case, it was a.22 caliber rifle that he taught her with and that this did not inspire an interest in guns for Lindley, but she had handled guns a couple times. He also testifies that Lindley was in complete shock the day of Ben's death. And in the days and weeks after, Lindley was seen to briefly and quietly cry under her father's testimony or during her father's test testimony. The father said she was gone. I'd never seen shock so bad before. After the husband died, he described his daughter as a woman who just went through the motions of daily life after her husband died. Sitting and staring on the porch for hours, just catatonic. So through questioning through him, they argued that Lindley has lied to her father, citing her extra marital affairs. They're like, you really don't know anything about your daughter. Correct. Do you know that she was having a bunch of affairs? No. Do you know this? No. Do you know this? No. Then why would she tell you shit? You don't know anything. He even said, these are things she keeps from you to the father. Lindley has to testify. She has no choice.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What else are you gonna do?

[James Petrigallo]

She's got so many people saying that she's guilty. She's fucked at this point. So she testifies on her own behalf. By the way, if you want to see someone testify on their own behalf horribly, look up the Sara Boone trial. That's the suitcase lady. Her. She's the worst testifier I've ever seen in my life. It's amazing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I am so glad it's happening right now. And you get to just watch it as it.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, it's amazing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So good live.

[James Petrigallo]

It's amazing. So Lindley says that on her own behalf, telling the jury Michael Humphrey pulled the trigger, not her. Oh, that's what she says. They said. Lindley, was there any other ever, any other occasion where an argument with Ben turned physical? And she said, oh, yes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, all the time.

[James Petrigallo]

She said, ben and I had been arguing at the house and he grabbed my arm and pushed me into the refrigerator and was like, I'm not done with this. We're going to finish it now. Oh, she tried to walk away and he was like, no, no, get the fuck back here. She never filed a police report about this alleged physical abuse, but she said it was all the time. And Sam said, abusive is not a word that I would use with Ben. He was very kind, very loving. Well, sometimes people who are kind and loving also can abuse their spouses that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They think that they're being kind and loving while they're doing that too.

[James Petrigallo]

Behind closed doors, there's a phrase for a reason. You know what I mean? So then came her. Not that I'm saying he did do it. I'm just saying that you can't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're right. You wouldn't know.

[James Petrigallo]

You don't know. So then came her chance to explain why she asked Michael Humphrey to accompany her that fatal day. That's a good one. The defense attorney had Lynn run through her personal family history education for massage therapy. And I watched all this and it was so funny. She started talking about her history and the prosecution's like, objection, I watched the video. They're like, we don't. This isn't. This doesn't matter at all. But it got overruled. And so then she just got to tell her whole story. And pretty fucking funny. So the defense attorney had her run through everything like we said, and her marriage and all that talk about Humphrey. Lindley said she ended her relationship with Humphrey in late 2010. Looked him back up again about a month ago. According to the testimony, she Lindley said, quote, hey, my marriage is falling apart. Will you please just go with me just to make sure, like, you know, I'm safe and I can get some stuff and go. Right. She also has a father, mind you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

And you know what I mean. Ask your dad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So long.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, ask your dad. What the fuck are you doing? Your drug dealer boyfriend from seven years ago, or he's going to that he's the most reliable male figure you can come up with. Give me a fucking break. So by the time she had decided to broach the topic of divorce, she didn't know who to turn to, she said, because her father had divorced and he had strong opinions on divorce and extramarital affairs. Well, if he was really beating the shit out of you and raping you, I think you'd go to your dad and go, hey, my fucking husband's beating and raping me. Can you help me get out of the house? I doubt he'd go. No, you need to stick with that, sweetheart.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Frown upon divorce.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, I don't. I'm not into divorce. And you've been having affairs. You deserve it. Go back there and get beat. No, he's not gonna say that. So she said that she just wanted someone to support her when she went to talk to Ben. So the topic of old boyfriends came up, and that led to her reconnecting with Humphrey because she figured he might be tough because he's been in prison. So Ben had become more aggressive, she said, and argumentative. So Lindley said she wanted someone for moral support and physical support. Court and, you know, they've been fighting alleged physical and sexual abuse and the stress associated with all of this. Lindley was worried what mood he'd be in when she broached the subject of divorce. So she said, this is why she relied on Humphrey. She said, I wasn't at the facility to kill my husband, but to ask for a divorce. Oh, yeah, and she served him with eight fucking shots is what she served, rather than papers. They said, did you ask Michael to help kill your husband? And she said, no, he just made that up so he can get first degree murder charges. Why would he make that up? So they said, set the scene for me and the jury. So give it your all here Lindley acknowledges that she took some trash from Ben to throw away. She entered the breeding facility where she saw Humphrey and Ben finishing up washing their hands. She couldn't really hear what they were saying to each other. And thinking. She said she was thinking more about what she would tell Ben, that how she would tell him about the divorce. Lindley says, quote, I walked up right behind. Right behind Michael. And then she does a big exhale, too. It's even in the transcript for exhale. It's so big. Michael turned around and I saw a gun in his hands. And then I heard shots ring out, and I screamed and I ran outside. And then I heard more shots go off and everything just went numb. And I remember staring at the trees again, another transcripted exhale. And then Michael running out of the facility and pushing me toward the car and telling me, we have to go, Lindley, get in the car. We have to go now. You know the opposite of his story. She claimed to be in shock. They said, well, why didn't you tell the truth to the investigator? She said, oh, I was in shock. That's why I didn't even know where I was.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

She then said, this is fucking wild. I understand what that means and how this looks. I just. I don't know how to fully express that. I never wanted Ben dead. She described disassociating while on the return trip to the spa. She's totally disappointed. Disassociate. So completely detached. When she got to the police, she alleges that her work friend there, Ashley, was the one that set up and bathed her. And she didn't even know what she was doing. She basically stripped her clothes off and just walked her catatonic corpse into the fucking shower and bathed her. Come here. You look sad. Let me wash your tits. Come here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ashley treated her like Joanie treated all the whores and dead.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes, exactly. Rub it under the shoulders.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Come here. Let me take care of you.

[James Petrigallo]

Imagine if you walked into my house. I thought you looked sad, so I started stripping your clothes off and taking you to the shower to give you a good scrubbing for no reason.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dragging a sponge with us down the hall.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. What the fuck you got to do with this, Whitzman? Don't worry, buddy. I got you covered, man. I know what you need. I don't know what happened, but I know what you need.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know what the problem, but I know the remedy.

[James Petrigallo]

I know how to fix it, though. She said. Lindley said she didn't want to believe what just happened. Happened the reality set in when she returned to the breeding facility and located Ben's body. She then called Sam. He came over, they checked for a pulse and to see if Ben was breathing, thinking he may still be alive. That's awfully wishful thinking with a fucking contact wound to the skull. Lindley's hands, like we said, were tested, and they didn't come up with any gunpowder residue because she showered. Lilly said she regrets not telling the officers then and there that she'd been at the breeding facility when Humphrey did this. Basically, she said, I should have told the cops this right now. She said, about a month after Ben's death, she returned to the distraction of the men she had an affair with just to have a distraction from how sad she was about her dead husband. I needed to get some strange. Just because I was so sad about my dead husband, I needed penis from someone else.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow. She said, I hid behind the story that I never left the spa and I regret not telling the truth from the start. So she said, yeah, I eventually told my version of everything to Brandon Blackwell. She said, yeah, I was in a relationship with him. I had a child with him. The relationship went sour, and I took out protection orders against him, which he violated multiple times. She said, I do regret lying. She said, I was just trying to run from the truth of what happened. I regret lying. I just didn't want consequences for my actions. I just didn't want them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I just wanted nobody to know.

[James Petrigallo]

I just wanted to spend the money and not go to jail. Does that make sense? She said, I lied a lot. And I understand how that looks. I stuck with that story and never let go of it. On cross examination, the guy comes up and he goes, you were interviewed by a bunch of cops. And she says, yes. And you lied to them every time. Yes. But deep down in that heart of yours and in that brain of yours, you know who killed him, correct? And she says, yes. They said. And then anytime the police asked, she said, anytime the police asked me who I thought, I just told them Sam, because she was trying to get out of it. Then she starts crying and looks up to Sam and says, I'm so sorry.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm so sorry, Sam.

[James Petrigallo]

I killed your brother and made the cops think you did it. Sorry, my bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, that's so hard to frame you for your brother's murder.

[James Petrigallo]

No worries. It happens. It's like the third time someone tried to frame me for a family member's murder. I get it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm so sorry. I got caught, Sam.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow. And the Prosecutor says, why should these jurors believe you now? You want these 12 people to believe you? Correct. And she says, yes. And the guy says, I bet you do. And that's all he has to say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I gotta go.

[James Petrigallo]

So Sam's reaction to her testimony is this quote, her trying to apologize to me on the stand and garner sympathy with the jury. Didn't sit well with me. There's no low. Too low for that one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No kidding.

[James Petrigallo]

She is. Wow. Just a mean person here. Closing arguments. Prosecutors here, they say all she's done is deflect and lie throughout the investigation. After all the marital problems to financial issues, attempted poisoning, led to this elaborate plan. He said this was. Was pre planned. We know she offered Humphrey money and encouraged him. Even if she had done it all by herself, she'd still be guilty of murder in the first degree. Yeah, I think she'd be more guilty than at that point. He said of all the statements of the prosecution witnesses were backed up by other evidence, all of our evidence. Other people have corroborated it. Her testimony was not backed up by any supporting evidence. Any corroboration from anybody else, her actions after Ben died, or only to bolster her alleged alibi. Her story changed from the investigation to a different version. Specifically, the ones that you're hearing now. Why didn't she call 911 when she started to worry about not hearing from Ben? Well, you don't call 911 because your husband doesn't call you back. He might have dropped his phone and broke it. Don't call 91 1. No one does that. That would be crazy. Don't be fooled by what the defense wants you to believe. Believe the evidence, okay? And then he starts singing the Doobie Brothers. What a fool Believes. And then they make him stop, though. What a fool believes. They're like, that's enough out of you. We get it. So the defense attorney here in a moment says that in a moment of indescribable trauma, Lindley made bad decisions. This is really just about bad decisions. That's her decision to lie. She's not a violent person. And even prosecution witnesses said that there was no plan for murder, just plans for divorce. You don't do favors for first degree murder. It's like that guy would have had to get more than just a favor. Help me out with this. You do favors for helping plan a divorce. That's what you do. That's what it is here. It's like helping someone move, not killing someone. Lindley has no proficiency in using weapons. Well, it doesn't take a lot of proficiency to shoot somebody from six fucking inches away in their back. There's not a lot of proficiency needed. Anyone could do that. One of the snakes could almost do that for sure. Yeah, not quite, but almost.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It might only take two.

[James Petrigallo]

Two of them. You hold it, I'll fucking pull the trigger. I don't know how they would rack it though. That would be really hard.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If it's got to be a revolver.

[James Petrigallo]

Versus a revolver, I could see this happening, you know what? Whole new fucking theory of the case. Now I have come to a different conclusion.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said that if the investigation into Lindley was so strong, why did investigators have to resort to threats of jail for her co conspir? Because that's what you do to coworkers, man. It's life. Have you ever seen an interrogation before, dummy? She's hoping the jurors have never seen one. If they've ever. This is 2021. If they've ever watched an episode of the First 48, they go, yeah, that's how you get people to talk, dummy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Whole thing. Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Why did they believe the word of a boyfriend who has bits and pieces of the story? Brandon Blackwell, who's facing stalking charges in relation to Lindley. He's just mad at her because she filed charges against him. That's what they're saying. People who want to know what the truth is would not do what these police officers did. Lindley Renick did not know Ben was going to die that night. The lack of evidence has proved that. Okay, jury goes to verdict. They deliberate for 12 hours. Golly, I don't know what they're talking about. For 12 hours. And again it's first degree murder, second degree murder, blah blah, blah. Down the line they find her guilty.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Of second degree murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That poor bastard really got fucked, didn't he?

[James Petrigallo]

He got fucked good on second. Oh, wait till you hear her sentence.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, man.

[James Petrigallo]

So they said. This is fucking wild. The jurors decided that she was not. She did not deliberately kill her husband. With quote, cool reflection.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petrigallo]

She tried to kill him once, then planned a better way, went there with a gun and shot him. You don't get any more pre planned than that. And did it for money. Like that's as first degree as it gets.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's really fascinating.

[James Petrigallo]

It is. Sam, during the sentencing, said she really believed that she was going to get away with all this and she really believed that she was going to get what she had, what she had planned. After murdering my brother in Other words, all the money. So he says, she put the children through this experience. Here I am, covered in my brother's blood, attempting to comfort the children despite them asking me if their daddy is dead. This poor son of a bitch. Tears and blood and horrible. There are a lot of victims in this case. The web of devastation travels far. And he asked that his brothers. He also asked that his brother's remains be returned to their family. I don't want her to have his fucking remains. They're ours. So he says, thank you for this opportunity and may Benjamin Renick rest in peace. Now, life in prison is still an option on second degree murder. I think it's life with parole at that point, but it's still life. The judge says. And this is the jury's decision on the sentencing. The judge cannot override the sentence in any way, shape or form. Here you, ma'am, may fuck off. 13 years in prison for the murder and then armed criminal action, which is another charge, another three years. Consecutive. 16 years. They give her 16 years. The judge was, like, noticeably livid about this shit. He was pissed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He was pissed. You did it wrong.

[James Petrigallo]

Yes. If he could have, he would have taken that jury in a room and given them the fucking business. And when you people are useless, let me tell you something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petrigallo]

Sam was real frustrated. You could see him be like, what the fuck?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get the fuck out of my life.

[James Petrigallo]

And the judge said the same thing. The judge looked at her and said, quote, you're awfully lucky, ma'am. You just. Wow, you snowed these fucking jurors. Somehow you're going to get that. You're going to get out in your 40s. And my 40s weren't too bad. So they say, like, you're not getting out when you're 90 and crusty. You're going to have a fine life. He said, I just hope that you don't kill again. That's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good Christ.

[James Petrigallo]

She will only have to serve 12 years in prison before she's eligible for parole. 12 fucking years from then. Sam said, I mean, we were happy that she was sentenced to the 16 years she was given. However, my brother's life was worth a lot more than 16 years. Those children, all the lives that were destroyed by this, by these actions. I begged the common person to watch the trial again and ask themselves if my brother's life was only worth 16 years. 16 years is why I'm here today. The kids lost their father, my babies and Ben's babies. And I'm here to take care of them for the rest of my life, he says, so you can. This is all on online, too. The toll trial Court TV has a thing where it's every day's breakdown. And you can watch just her testimony or I recommend watching her testimony because it's terrible. So what about old fucking dav the snake man here? What about him? He said what happened to Ben was a tragedy that absolutely did not have to happen. And yet Ben Renick lives on in a way he would surely have loved. Celebrated with a new breed of snake named just for him and Dave. I've done this, babe. I made a new snake. And it's called the Renick Ghost. He made a new breed of snake, Dave, the ultimate snake man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Looking around for a breed that he could find another one with. And he made a new snake.

[James Petrigallo]

How much you want to bet this guy walks around with like a big burlap sack with a snake in it? Like Jake the Snake Roberts. And like, like, that's. I'm the snake man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What's it called? The Renick Ghost.

[James Petrigallo]

The Renick ghost.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

The snake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck is that?

[James Petrigallo]

He said? And what ghost is, is a slight reduction of black's color. It gives the snake a ghosty appearance to it. So it's like, ooh, like, lighter than it should be. And that is just such a testament to what Ben meant to this community. And he now has a mutation of a snake named after him. Hey, everybody, I'm gonna say this now because when you're dead, you don't have a chance to say this. If I drop dead under crazy circumstances or anything, please don't mutate a snake for me. Just don't even bother. I'm good. You don't have to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I gotta see what it looks like.

[James Petrigallo]

You don't have to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's fucking frightening.

[James Petrigallo]

They're all. What fucking python isn't frightening? They're all frightening, James.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's got like a fucking stripe that comes up between its eyes.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. From the back.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And it's like, like. It's like an albino ball python kind of. And it's so scary.

[James Petrigallo]

That is creepy looking, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Boy, oh, boy.

[James Petrigallo]

So the 48 hour says, you miss your friend, don't you?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I'm. I'm snakes.

[James Petrigallo]

What do you think he said? Every simple, every single expo that we would see each other at, there's a vacancy there that will never be filled again. Yeah, no, there's a one less weirdo snake guy. Not that Ben was a weirdo, but there's less weirdos there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's like an albino with, like, yellow. It's crazy.

[James Petrigallo]

That's fucking interesting. So what does Lindley do from jail? She sues Brandon Blackwell.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Stop it.

[James Petrigallo]

For what? Where to go? You're gonna shit when you hear this. For defamation, you murdering twat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah. You're a fucking murdering. How's that? Sue us. There's no. You can't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

For defamation.

[James Petrigallo]

That's hilarious. Because there's been defamation cases that have gone to court and people have said, you've done so much, there's no way anyone could defame you. That's where she's at.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who was it?

[James Petrigallo]

It was a famous person. They said you're undefamable. You can't be defamed because you're such a fucking loser.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Was it Lenny?

[James Petrigallo]

I can't remember who the hell it was. Lenny. It was Lenny. It was Lenny Dykstra. They said, you have been such a disaster. There's no way. You can't be embarrassed because you've embarrassed yourself enough. Which is a great discord decision, by the way. Lenny Dykstra, that was. So anyway, in the lawsuit, Renick accuses her ex boyfriend, Brandon of making false and malicious statements to law enforcement officers that implicated her and her husband's murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hilarious.

[James Petrigallo]

She's the only one who's not in prison, I guess, and doesn't have prosecutorial immunity. According. Wow, that's fucking crazy. The lawsuit claims his statements were false and made maliciously for the purpose of causing injury to a reputation. Oh, man. They were made for the purpose of getting him out of jail.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petrigallo]

And if you get to stick it to your ex a little bit, I think that's probably just a cherry on top. According to the lawsuit, they've subjected her to arrest and eventual incarceration, criminal prosecution and the loss of custody of her children, all for a false statement he made. What about all the other people who made these statements? She's suing him for $25,000 for punitive damages and court costs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Wow. The Columbia attorney who followed the suit said Renick is trying to hold Blackwell accountable through this legal action. She said she wants to preserve her right to hold him accountable in some form since the state did not call him to testify at trial. So they have. This is crazy. And they also say this could have an impact on the child custody at one point, at some point in the future because they have a kid together, if you remember, 20, 22. They want Lindley barred from any inheritance from Ben's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shit. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

They court.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petrigallo]

A court appointed administrator of Renick's belongings asked the judge to stop Lindley from getting any part of Ben's estate. Because she's trying to. Yeah, they said. They wrote that their daughter should be named to as sole heir of the estate, meaning Ben and Lindley's daughter. Doing so would put her one step closer to finally closing out the court's supervision of the estate. They're trying to get it over with. 2023. Mike Humphrey is going to appeal.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know what he's appealing. Yeah, he's appealing. Special public defender said that in and only that is only point that Brandon Blackwell should not have been allowed to testify at Humphrey's trial because he testified at Humphrey's trial, but not Lindley's. Blackwell told Missouri State Highway Patrol investigators that Lindley Renick told him about the shooting when they were dating. Blackwell claimed that Lindley recruited Humphrey to help her get a gun and all that shit. They said the courts can allow statements made about a defendant's possible participation in a crime after the fact without that person being present. Present when it's made. Hearsay is what they're saying, essentially. So they said. Mr. Mr. Blackwell's testimony that Ms. Renick told him everything that she and Mr. Humphrey did was inadmissible hearsay and it was not in furtherance of the conspiracy. And there's no evidence that Mr. Humphrey was present when Mr. Ms. Renick made it to Mr. Blackwell and acquiesced in its making. Even without trial counsel objecting to the testimony, the trial court should have recognized its inadmissible nature and taken action to correct it. And they didn't. So they say, get the fuck out of here. Keep going.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What are you talking about?

[James Petrigallo]

This is crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

Then Lindley appeals too. Oh, for fuck's sake, Lindley, she appeals. This was in 2023. She appeals. Somehow she noticed, filed a notice of appeal on like November 2nd, and then by a month later, she asked that. That the. That they pull it back. They don't want it. She doesn't want it anymore. The Columbia attorney, Carol Johnson, declared that her client had asked for a voluntary dismissal of the appeal.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petrigallo]

I guess they're not ready for it yet is what that might mean.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And they need to say we got shit we gotta do first.

[James Petrigallo]

You guys, if you got one bullet left, you can't just shoot it off willy nilly. You gotta fucking hold it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petrigallo]

So there you go, everybody. That is New Florence, Missouri.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's a special kind of twat, man.

[James Petrigallo]

Special kind of like a twisty snaky kind of twat. Like a terrible, scaly, slithery kind of a twat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I hate it.

[James Petrigallo]

Like a kind of twat that just eats a whole rabbit and has it sit in their stomach and just look big and fat like that kind of twat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, like a worm with a backbone.

[James Petrigallo]

Oh, my God. Scary shit. So there you go. Hope you liked that episode. If you did, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app. You're listening. Give us five stars. It helps tremendously. Trust me on that one. You also want to definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com tickets for live shows. Austin, Texas, you are up next.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let's do it.

[James Petrigallo]

Get in there. The other show, Phoenix show was sold out the first day they went on sale. So that's not going to work. But Austin, you can come to that. And we're going to release. We didn't realize that Tarrytown has 100 tickets left for like the last four months. And we're like, how come no one's buying last hundred tickets? And then you go on the website and it's has sold out because we need to release those tickets. So we're going to go ahead and release those out to you guys.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When do we do that?

[James Petrigallo]

And I don't know when we're going to release them, but you can keep checking. And Boston as well. Get your tickets there. Maybe by the time you hear this, they'll be released. We're not sure.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fingers crossed.

[James Petrigallo]

Fingers crossed. So do that. And also the October 30th virtual live show. Whether you can't get to a live show or you want more live shows, we can do this anywhere in the world with Internet. You can watch this because it's just like a regular live show. The story, the jokes, the screens, pictures, all that shit. Except it's Halloween, so we're going to be wearing costumes. And they're fucking hilarious. I'm sorry, they're hilarious. Best costume you're going to see. Then on top of that, it's available for two weeks after that as well. So you can buy it beforehand. Watch it for two weeks. You can buy it anytime during the two weeks. You can do anything you want with it. Watch it 100 times. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Do what you want. Stick it up your ass for all weekend. We don't give a shit. Patreon.com Crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material. We can't recommend this enough to you. Not only because it costs $5 and we get that money. But yes, anybody, $5 a month or above, you get hundreds of episodes you've never heard before. Then you get them made. That's right. New ones every other week that you're going to get. One crime in sports, one small town murder and they are fucking worth it. Patreon's hilarious. For crime and sports this week we're going to talk about the Vince McMahon documentary, which is insane. We're going to talk about some wild statements he made over the course of that. Not too much wrestling then. For small town murder we are going to finish up Ted Bundy's psychological examination from 1976. The diagnostic unit in the Utah State Prison where they're going to decide if they think Ted Bundy is violent or not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a crazy thing.

[James Petrigallo]

I don't know how you will find out how they decided, but I think we knew the outcome ahead of time. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Feels like it.

[James Petrigallo]

Yeah, absolutely. So get in there. Patreon.com crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right now. Jimmy, tell me the names of the people who would never ever, ever murder us and pretend a snake killed us. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This week's executive producers are. Ma. Jean Amelio. I think. I hope so.

[James Petrigallo]

I hope that's been good. If you nailed it, great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fingers crossed. Julia. Julie Del Vecchio. Abigail. Gathered, gathered. Claude Cavallo. Claude, thank you so much. I hope you meant to do that. If not, please email. Let us gladly send whatever back that you didn't mean to send. Thank you so much. Chelsea Morgan. Faith Steveson. I believe. And Paul Roost.

[James Petrigallo]

Paul. All right.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So much. Also, other producers this week. Liz Vasquez. Thank you. Liz, good to see you this week. Peyton Meadows. Gary Howard. Diane Hellman. $Janice Hill. Sharon Jones. She just started Deadwood.

[James Petrigallo]

You're gonna love it. I'm jealous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good for you. Help me with the fucking fall. Andrew Wellmers. Andrew, how you been?

[James Petrigallo]

I got that good. That was good that time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Pretty damn good. Who's gonna help with the system? The message?

[James Petrigallo]

He could help me with my phone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Brb. I don't know. Be right back.

[James Petrigallo]

Be right back.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I hope you stick around. L.P. haley Robertson. Heidi Callaher. Jesse Moline Johnson. Vicky C. Christina Reed. Lisa Koch or Coke. Chris Beck. Lee Grant. Jasmine Cronbeck. Mary Albright's big alien dick. Jennifer Holtman.

[James Petrigallo]

It's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's big.

[James Petrigallo]

James.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You gotta.

[James Petrigallo]

It's gotta be massive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, golly. It's crazy. It's. It looks like two. Two. Jen Two Fingers. Hokumoto. Jennifer Holtman. I said that. Amy Merritt. Allison Niebuhr. Benjamin A. Brady Simmons. Benjamin Hayer. Also Brady Simmons.

[James Petrigallo]

Say everybody's named Benjamin now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn it. Lindsey Scott, Robert George, Kyle Harris, Chris Fry, Aaron Welch. Caitlin H. Megan King, Danielle Lex, Catherine Gregor, Neelu Roths. And Johnny Neew. Jilly Ben. Jilly Bean. 6886343 Denver. 3. Wow, that's a lot of numbers. Lori. Lori K. Erica with no last name. Jan or Jan Van D. Root. Lynn. Okay. Lynn. Armo Hems and says.

[James Petrigallo]

He said. Okay, let me. Let me gird my loins for this name, boy, because it's going to be a rough one going into battle.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Veronica Vasquez. Emily Emma Lee.

[James Petrigallo]

Emily.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Interesting way. Savannah. Savannah. Gan Camps. What is this? Canoe. Canoe. It's a name. Thomas Phillips. Colleen Larson. Tyler J. Travis Mount. Amy. Amy Barnes. Nikki Zaddy. Cody V96. Julie Pace. Brady with no last name. A, B and C. Sarah Gasecki. Vicky with no last name. Skyler skylark Purcell. Sharon McGregor, Nicole Mercada. Picardo's. Oh, Picard's mistress. All right, Picard. Good for you.

[James Petrigallo]

P.O.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Q. Ivan. Richard Ryan with no last name. Shannon Adams. Jacob Sigley. Matt Simone, Stephen Cole. Lisa Weiss. Jenner Ward. Cammy Salyer. Angela Angie Pennington. Nicholas Mergu. Mergo. What is that? Bo Glover. C and K. The letters C and K. Jun Yun Mansfield. Tiffany Yudenjaya, Yurijia. Udenjia Murda. Topura. Nick Reed, Elon L, L, Kurt. Sandy Raymond. Antique limited edition. Doug Teague. Albert Evila, Tyler Kulik. These are fucked names, man.

[James Petrigallo]

You guys got fuck names, man. Get your shit together.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Lynn Machino, Brad Schanberg. Mandy H. Grant with no last name. Haley Jackson. Stephen with no last name. Jeremy Hayes. Lauran. Lauran Luthier. What is that name? Sean Smith. Scott Veroni Aves. Avs gutters. What? Because Gurung. Michael Savage. Savage. Leo Savaglio. Fucking what?

[James Petrigallo]

Savage Leo. That's great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Amanda, call Scott Rusling. Rusing. Jacquet. Jacquetta. Jacquetta. Adewallo. What? Mamie Strand. Stansfield. Danita Scott. Jason Newhouse. Robin Purriere. What the. Andrea Guzzetta. What are these? What is that? Todd Becker, Deborah Heavlin. Heavlin. Lisa Smoot. That's fucking easy. Bob with no last name. Jen with no last name. Emily Davis, Christy Phillips, Garrett Geissy. I think Steph would know. Last name. Jason Travis, David Spear. Jupy. Jupy. Is that a name? McKenna with no last name. Douglas Wyrick, Russ Mann. Tammy Knox, Maria Taylor, Danny Soteel, Andrew Hegel. Heigl Higlay. Samantha Tims, Brittany Parker. Elliot Natrica, I think Abigail Walker, Lou Sasoli. Rhonda Hugh Hereford. Courtney Ochoa. Audra Bodemer, Gloria D. Jane with no last name. Tracy Smith, Tina Hilton, Kimberly Swartwood.

[James Petrigallo]

Julia.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Julia Barron's. I don't know. Stephanie Channels. Kyle with no last name. Tiffany Shady. Shady, perhaps Robert Sweeney, Allison Aarons, Angela with no last name. Summer teed Tired. Feed the D. What? Christ. Branley. Branley Schmelter, I think. Monica with no last name. Tyler Hyatt. Tomoto. Tomoto. Takashi Takahashi. Tomoto. Tomoto. Taka Takahashi. That's cooler than any.

[James Petrigallo]

That's awesome. Sounds like he invented a Nintendo game. I love it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I can't even do it. Kurt. Kurt scheid. Sydney Engler. Pag. Pag. 2975. Chelsea Harrison, Josh with no last name. Adil Ali Bonita, Rupe, Diz Hart. Alakona is a. With no last name. I don't know. Robert Fisky, Possibly Fisk. Carlton had the same name. Charles Cr. Hannah with no last name. All of our patrons, especially the easier names. You guys are the best. Thank you so much.

[James Petrigallo]

Thank you, everybody, so much. You magnificent sons of. We love you more than we can fucking tell. Thank you. You keep the show going. That is wonderful that you do that. Thank you for the Patreon subscriptions. People ask all the time, how does the money work? Does you get that or do you? Patreon is what we get 100% of. So if you want to support the show. Amazing. That's a great way to fucking do it. Also, you know, buy the shit from our sponsors. That helps too. We only buy. We only do sponsorship with shit that we think you might like. So do that. Hang out with us. Keep coming back and seeing us. You want to follow us on social media? It's all on the website. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Follow us on social media as well. Hang out with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. If you like small town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcast Prime. Members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes. Even if you haven't read the book.

[James Petrigallo]

You think you know the story.

[Jimmy Wisman]

One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today.

[James Petrigallo]

The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A mirror, so when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see.

[James Petrigallo]

Is our own monstrous abilities.

[Jimmy Wisman]

From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, the Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker rated ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science and religion, and how, even today, we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night. You can binge all episodes of the.

[James Petrigallo]

Real History of Dracula exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Join WonderyPlus and the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.