#555 - Murder On The Trail - Pearisburg, Virginia

Summary

Episode #555: Murder On The Trail - Pearisburg, Virginia

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Release Date: December 26, 2024
Description: Two comedians explore the intricacies of a small town, its unique dynamics, and a tragic murder that shook the community. Through meticulous research and their comedic lens, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman unravel the story behind Randall Lee Smith and the double homicide in Pearisburg, Virginia.

---

Introduction

In Episode #555 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman dive deep into the unsettling case of a double murder that took place on the Appalachian Trail near Pearisburg, Virginia. Combining thorough investigation with their characteristic humor, they shed light on the life of Randall Lee Smith, the events leading up to the murders, and the subsequent investigation that captivated the small community.

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Setting the Scene: Pearisburg, Virginia

Pearisburg, a quaint town founded in 1808 and situated in Giles County, Virginia, presents itself as a peaceful locale nestled between Beckley and Roanoke. Despite its idyllic appearance, the town holds secrets that would later emerge in a horrifying light.

James Pietragallo (08:27):
*"George Paris was a war hero... He operated a ferry, the first store, and a tavern."_

The town boasts a low unemployment rate and affordable housing, making it an attractive place for many. However, beneath these statistics lies a community grappling with deeper issues, including a higher-than-average property crime rate.

Jimmie Whisman (09:19):
*"Have you heard of Zillow?"_

---

The Victims: Robert Mountford Jr. & Susan Ramsey

On May 30, 1981, hikers Robert Mountford Jr. (27) and Susan Ramsey (27) embarked on a journey along the Appalachian Trail, aiming to raise funds for mentally disturbed children. Their disappearance sparked an immediate search effort, but it wasn't until ten days later that their bodies were discovered.

James Pietragallo (20:38):
*"Loretta got divorced when Randall was six months old. They were struggling, just the two of them."_

Mountford was found with three gunshot wounds to the head, while Ramsey exhibited multiple stab wounds and defensive injuries, indicating a brutal confrontation.

Jimmie Whisman (53:34):
*"He used a piece of iron to hit her in the head. He also stabbed her with a long nail."_

---

Randall Lee Smith: The Prime Suspect

Randall Lee Smith (27), a local resident with a history of erratic behavior and fabricated stories, quickly became the center of the investigation. Known for his solitary nature and odd hobbies, Smith's fingerprints were discovered on a book at the crime scene, placing him at the location during the time of the murders.

James Pietragallo (55:28):
*"Randall could have bought it in May or April and just not have been turned in yet."_

Despite his claims of being in Connecticut at the time, inconsistencies in his alibi and the mounting evidence pointed towards his involvement.

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The Investigation: Unraveling the Evidence

The investigation faced numerous challenges, including meticulously searching the vast Appalachian Trail and dealing with the limited resources of a small-town police force. Key pieces of evidence included:

• Fingerprint Analysis: Randall's prints were found on a paperback book at the shelter where the bodies were discovered.
• Bloodstained Clothing: Items belonging to both victims were found at Smith's residence, suggesting his presence at the crime scene.
• Handwritten Notes: A disjointed note found in Smith's abandoned truck referenced the murders, further incriminating him.

Jimmie Whisman (60:25):
*"Pretty smart."_

However, the investigation hit a roadblock when the fingerprint did not match any existing databases, leading authorities to broaden their search to private fingerprint databases, which eventually provided a match to Smith.

James Pietragallo (67:06):
*"He's not home."_

---

Arrest and Plea Bargain

Smith was apprehended in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, after his abandoned Ford Ranger pickup truck was spotted by a state trooper. During his arrest, Smith exhibited signs of disorientation and claimed amnesia, refusing to provide coherent answers about his identity.

James Pietragallo (75:36):
*"This is the Patterson. He knows about the murder."_

Faced with overwhelming circumstantial evidence and public pressure, Smith accepted a plea bargain for second-degree murder charges, a decision that ignited controversy and accusations of a miscarriage of justice.

Jimmie Whisman (90:23):
*"Miscarriage of justice."_

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Community Reaction and Aftermath

The plea bargain was met with outrage from both the families of the victims and the local community, who felt that justice was not adequately served. Despite the evidence, including fingerprints and bloodstains, Smith received a 30-year sentence instead of the harsher penalties he seemingly deserved.

James Pietragallo (91:07):
*"This is a mess. Imagine living in that area during this time."_

Smith's eventual death in prison five years after his conviction closed the case but left lingering questions about the adequacy of the legal response and the community's ability to cope with such a tragedy.

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Conclusion: Reflections on Small Town Justice

"Murder On The Trail" serves as a poignant exploration of how small towns handle heinous crimes, the complexities of the legal system, and the lasting impact on the community. Hosts James and Jimmy invite listeners to ponder the intricacies of human behavior and the quest for justice in the most unexpected places.

James Pietragallo (172:27):
*"Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure."_

---

Notable Quotes

• James Pietragallo (05:23):
  "What do you think true crime and comedy should. We might not be the show for you, but we might be the show for you."

• Jimmie Whisman (24:29):
  "Spend by yourself though, you know, I."

• James Pietragallo (35:32):
  "He seems like a decent welder. I mean, you ever talk to welders? A lot of them are weird people."

• Jimmie Whisman (86:21):
  "Here's a special holiday deal for wondery listeners."
  (Note: This quote is part of an advertisement and is excluded from the core content summary.)

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Key Takeaways

• Complexity of Small-Town Investigations: Limited resources and overlapping community relationships can complicate the pursuit of justice.

• Impact of Plea Bargains: Even with substantial evidence, plea bargains can lead to perceptions of injustice among the community and victim families.

• Human Behavior Under Scrutiny: Randall Smith's case highlights the lengths to which individuals might go, including fabricating identities and violent actions, under societal pressures.

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Listeners who haven't tuned in yet can follow "Small Town Murder" on shutupandgivemerder.com and join the conversation on Instagram and Facebook under the handle @smalltownmurder.

Transcript

[James Petragalo]

Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts and originals in all your favorite genres from memoirs and sci fi, mysteries and thrillers. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment, like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984 heartfelt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one. The year's best fiction like the Women by Kristin Hannah and Percival Everett's brilliantly sub of James. Right now I'm listening to Starkweather by Harry Ann McLean about the murderer Charles Starkweather. It's pretty good. I can recommend that to you as well. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com smalltownmurder and discover the years best waiting for you. Have you ever found the house of your dreams only to learn it has dark secrets? Netflix's new series no Good Deed follows three families vying to buy a 1920s Spanish style villa that they think will solve their problems. But as the Sellers disc sometimes the home of your dreams can be a total nightmare. No Good Deed, starring Lisa Kudrow and Ray Romano is now playing only on Netflix. Ryan Reynolds here for I guess my hundredth Mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, don't. No, don't, no. I mean honestly, when I started this I thought I'd only have to do.

[Jimmy Westman]

Like four of these.

[James Petragalo]

I mean it's unlimited to Premium Wireless for $15 a month. How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming. Here, give it a [e-mail] switch whenever you're ready. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan.

[Jimmy Westman]

Only taxes and fees, extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes.

[James Petragalo]

CD Tales this week in Pearisburg, Virginia. Fear strikes the area as a strange lying porn obsessed murderer known as the AT killer stalks the countryside and creates an awful legend. Welcome to Small Town. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragalo. I'm here with my very sick co host.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh yeah. I'm Jimmy Westman.

[James Petragalo]

Thank you so much for joining us today on another episode of Small Town Murder. We have all sorts of a crazy story for you today. Very insane here. We will get to all that. And we have the announcement of the new tour dates for 2025. We'll tack those on at the end of the episode so you can check that out. And people who are just tuning in for the first time don't have to hear all that. So we'll get to that very quickly. First of all, shut up and give me murder dot com. That is where you can go to get your tickets for the live shows. They are on sale right now.

[Jimmy Westman]

Right now?

[James Petragalo]

Right now. 20, 25. Tour some places we've never been before, like Grand Rapids, stuff like that. We're coming and we can't wait. So get your tickets and get them quick because this year they went very fast and people were disappointed when they waited. So get in there and get those tickets. Shut up and give me murder.com or we. You can go to at Smalltown Murder on Instagram, whatever you want to do and go to the links and do all that stuff. Also Patreon, you definitely want Patreon. Patreon is where you get all of the bonus episodes. Anybody, $5 a month or above. You are going to get tons of stuff so much immediately upon subscription. Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before and new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all for $5. That's right. And this week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, oh, it's going to be fun. We're going to talk about sports, songs. We're going to listen to like Macho Man Savage rap, and we're gonna listen to football teams, try to put a song together and we're gonna laugh our asses off and die. It's just gonna be fun. Can't wait for that. Then for Small town Murder, something that cost tax dollars, billion taxpayers, billions of dollars. The CIA thought they could get it so people wouldn't be just psychic. They could remote view, which is they could see what's going on 10,000 miles away by concentrating hard enough. So that's what they. That's what they had there.

[Jimmy Westman]

I don't think so.

[James Petragalo]

We'll talk all about that as patreon.com crime and sports. Also listen to Crime and Sports, our other show and your stupid opinions as well, because God damn it, is it funny. So check that out. Hang out with us and keep doing that. But you can hang out with us all week that way. That said, disclaimer time, everybody. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. But the thing is, the stories are excessively real. There is nothing, nothing embellished, no details that are, you know, oh, we're going to say this so it's funnier. None of that stuff. Stories are as real as they get, and they are meticulously researched and everything. So get in there and check that out. What we do is you might go, how to Murder and comedy go together. Well, if you do it tastefully, that's how you go. That's how you do it. Yeah. What you do is you don't make fun of the victims or the victims families.

[Jimmy Westman]

Why is that, James?

[James Petragalo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Westman]

But.

[James Petragalo]

But we're not scumbags. See, that's how that goes. See? And if that sounds good to you, you're gonna hear a goddamn wild story. Do you think true crime and comedy should. We might not be the show for you, but we might be the show for you.

[Jimmy Westman]

You don't know.

[James Petragalo]

You never know. Give it a chance. But tell you what, no complaining later. How about that? That said, I think it's time, everybody. Yeah, let's do this. Let's do it. Here we go. Deep breaths. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip. I'm dragging Jimmy and all of his medicine behind me. Let's do it. Let's get out of here.

[Jimmy Westman]

This is miserable.

[James Petragalo]

We're going to Virginia. Oh, yeah, here we go. Been a while since we've been in Virginia. Here. Virginia. We're going to Parisburg, Virginia. Sure, sure. Which is pear, like the fruit? Yeah, it's. And then is Berg. So, yeah, they. They don't know how they spell that. So this is in north central Virginia. It's about an hour 10 to Roanoke and about an hour 5 to Beckley. So you know you're in a great spot when you're right between Beckley and Roanoke. That's the sweet spot right there. This is in Giles county. Area code 540 and the motto, of course, Virginia is for lovers.

[Jimmy Westman]

It sure is.

[James Petragalo]

Even if it's your cousin. That's okay. That's all right down there. It's fine. History. That's right. God damn it. Well, we're far enough away. History of this town was founded in 1808 when the county was established. It was named after a guy named George Paris. P E A R I S like the town. He's a local landowner who donated a 50 acre tract to be used for a town that would grow around the county courthouse. They built the courthouse and they said, we'll make a town around that here. Now this guy by the Way George Paris was actually like a war hero. And it's funny because when you look for pictures of him, the best you can find is like this third graders watercolor painting of him. And he looks. It makes him look like an Amish child. And I'm like, this man. This poor man was a hero, for Christ's sake. He commanded a company of Virginia cavalrymen under Joseph Cloyd and was instrumental in the American success during the War of independence. And in 1780, on October 14, his crew defeated the Tories at Shallow Fork on the Yadkin River.

[Jimmy Westman]

Those are Brits. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Yes, yes, absolutely. In the War of Independence. And he sustained a severe wound to his shoulder.

[Jimmy Westman]

Fuck.

[James Petragalo]

And then he moved to Giles County, Virginia, purchased the property, got married, operated a ferry, had the first.

[Jimmy Westman]

Survived it.

[James Petragalo]

Survived it, yeah. Which back then, a wound like that, I mean, that'll take you. That'll take you. Even if the wound doesn't kill you, the infection will later. Yeah. There was no antibiotics or anything like that. So then he operated a ferry, the first store in town and a tavern, and was appointed the first Chief justice of the peace of the town as well, or the county. So Paris was the man here. He operated a ferry on the New river at a settlement called Bluff City, which they just took into Parisburg and made a part of that. So he took that. He died in 1810, this guy. And he's buried in his own cemetery.

[Jimmy Westman]

Just missed War of 1812.

[James Petragalo]

Yep, the Paris Cemetery, which by the way, if you check out pictures, look it up, it is the scariest looking place ever. It looks like a cemetery that was abandoned 100 years ago. That's what it looks like. Like the gravestones are tilted and there's like tree limbs growing through everything.

[Jimmy Westman]

Putting new people in new.

[James Petragalo]

There is not being maintained, not being maintained at all. It is really bad stuff here. So we have one review of this town. Because it's a small town, there's not many reviews, one review, four stars and they say, great little town. Okay, all right. Double exclamation point. So it must be true. Born four stars, not five. Born and raised there, and I would love to go back if I could. Looking for a retirement place there, but not sure what is available. Hmm. If only there was a place you could find available real estate.

[Jimmy Westman]

Have you heard of Zillow?

[James Petragalo]

You found the niche website to put this review, but you didn't take it one step further to go. You know, real estate, Parisburg, it only takes a couple letters, only takes a couple words. And this town Too. Looking at the other stuff too. It's like there's a little restaurant in this town that looks like a. It's like a trailer building that they put a. They put a sign on. And then that burned to the ground. And then they. There's a motel there that also burned to the ground. Like it's. It's bad.

[Jimmy Westman]

Flammable as shit.

[James Petragalo]

It's very flammable. Then there's a very crappy motel here. Very, very crappy. That one of the person, one of the people reviewing it said had their bathroom had a quarter inch of, quote, scunge on it.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragalo]

I don't know what the S K U N D G E Scunge. So watch out for that.

[Jimmy Westman]

You know what that is?

[James Petragalo]

You know what that is? That is funk. Funk and scunge and something that came out of someone else's body that's not yours.

[Jimmy Westman]

Those are bodily fluids.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. What is. Define scunge. Something that came from someone else's body that's scunge. Yes. And is now stuck on the grass. Yeah. Stuck on the ground. People in this town, 28, 78. So a very small little place here. There is more females and males by a good, good margin here it's 53% female, which is way out of whack with normal here. Median age is 45, which is about seven years older than the national average. There is 0%. 18 to 20 year olds here. 0. There's almost 3,000 people and none of them are 18 to 20 years old. While soon as you get legal age to run screaming from this place, you do apparently come right back and then come back when you're 21. Apparently.

[Jimmy Westman]

Go fail elsewhere.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. Come on back to Pearisburg. 50% married, very high single with children rate. It's normally 10% here it's about 25% race of this town. 88.1% white, 9.5% black, 2.4% Hispanic and that's it.

[Jimmy Westman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

0.0%. Anything else that could possibly exist here. Religion in this town? It's 50. 50, which is the national average actually too. And the highest one, you'd think normally it's Baptist. We say Baptists are the Catholics of the south here. No, it is Methodist.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Coming in with 17.5% out of the. Out of the coal crew here. The unemployment rate is low in the country actually. Not a. Not a lot of people without jobs here. Median household income is pretty close to the national average. It's almost $66,000. Rest of the country, it's $69,000. So bad. That's not bad at all. And the cost of living, very low.

[Jimmy Westman]

What?

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, normally 100 is average in the rest of the country. Here it is 80 out of 100 and the housing is 49 out of 100. So that's terrific. Low median home cost here, $188,400, which. Not too shabby. Honestly, that's pretty damn low. That is not bad here. And all right, so if that sounds good to you, you can't wait till you can't stay out of Harrisburg. We have for you the Pearisburg Virginia real estate report. Here we go. House number one is a four bedroom, two bath, 2090 square foot house on a 75 acre lot. Is that good? It's not. It's a schizophrenic house. This house, half of it looks like somewhere where the Texas Chainsaw Massacre family lives. And then from another angle, it looks kind of like a quaint country home. Like you can't. It's really what depends on the lighting.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's either a cottage or a murder house.

[James Petragalo]

One of the two inside it has not been touched since maybe the 60s. I mean literally the 60s. Like it doesn't have. It doesn't have like cabinet doors. It just has a curtain across. Across it. It's one of those. It's got like several different old timey floors. It's got drop acoustic ceiling in a couple of the rooms, like it's an office. It's a really weird fucking house, man. And it says back on the market. I bet it is.

[Jimmy Westman]

The last offer fell through.

[James Petragalo]

I bet it is. Here. This house is $154,950 though. Not bad for a little bit of land and 2100 square feet an acre.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's not bad.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, if you want to put it together, you can. Here. House number two is not really a house. There is a structure on it, but you can't live in it because it would fall on your head eventually. Here. This is 171.7 acres of land in the hills here. It's a shitload of land. And it said, embrace the opportunity to own one of the region's most exquisite plots of land. And it's on like a mountainside. It is. It also comes with. It says the true gem of this property is the historic cabin on lot C. An artifact with stories dating back to the Civil War.

[Jimmy Westman]

Well, that scares me.

[James Petragalo]

And yes, I don't know what happened in there. And it's like falling apart. And like you can see, it's not structurally sound. This building, it's. It's pretty scary here. But it said that it is a complete with four wheeler trails and hiking. It's a hunter's paradise. I think that's kind of what it is. $562,000 for over 150 acres. That's not bad. 170 acres here. House number three. Four bedroom, three and a half bath. Almost a T bowl for each and every B hole. 3,932 square feet on 1.66 acres. It's just a big McMansion. It's one of those houses that has. It's on a big lot. 1.66 acres. Where they cleared all the trees first before they put up a house. So it's just this house sitting in the middle of a field basically is what it looks like. I don't like when they do that. They do that up by me all the time. And I'm like, why did you do that? You cleared out all the trees halo.

[Jimmy Westman]

Around the house to keep it safe.

[James Petragalo]

For them to burn down and then that's all. Or a tree falling into it. Otherwise keep some mature trees around. Instead. They knock all these trees down, then plant small ones. It's like you had a tree right there. Why didn't you just keep it? Assholes. So I don't know. It's like that fake brick facade. It's all right. I don't know. 750 grand for this house, though it's a little. It just seems a little cheesy. I don't know. Not my favorite.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's a lot.

[James Petragalo]

It's a lot. It's too much, honestly. Here for an acre and a half.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's not good pricing.

[James Petragalo]

No, no, that. That's what I mean. It feels terrible for that kind of pricing. I mean, especially for the house. Things to do in this town. Okay, here we go. The Scarecrow festival, of course. And this just appears to be kind of like, you know, people with their tents set up selling like handmade jewelry and shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

And at the same time, the scarecrow festival, they have a giant scarecrow person with a pumpkin on their head on stilts. They're on stilts. This person's, you know, 14ft tall. And all the pictures I saw the entire festival, not one person's even looking at this guy. This dude is in the middle of the street, in the middle of a crowd, like, hey, I'm the scarecrow. And there's kids not even like interested. Like, don't even fucking care.

[Jimmy Westman]

Pumpkin seeds in his hair.

[James Petragalo]

No one gives a shit. This guy's gonna go home if he doesn't fall and break his neck. He's gonna go home and pick pumpkin seeds out of his hair. And no one could care less what he' they couldn't fucking care less. So yeah, there's that. It's the. Every October, the Parisburg merchants association will host the annual scarecrow festival in our downtown streets. It's one of those where they close off all the streets and you just walk around. There's a classic car that's an inconveniencing anybody. No 2,800 people. Just avoid the one street. You're fine. There's a classic car show which from the looks of it was like literally nine cars.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

With a few old men. One of them was a fox body 80s Mustang. So it wasn't even like, I mean technically classic, but it's 40 years old. Not really what we're going for when we're going for a classic car thing here. So that's pretty fun. One of the favorite parts of the festival, according to the website here, is that it kicks off the tradition of seeing the scarecrows located throughout town. These are the things that no one gives a shit about or even looks at. That's one of the favorite parts of the festival, according to them. Another scarecrow to have people risking their lives on stilts while people ignore them completely. So that's fun. Residents and visitors alike are greeted in the downtown Pearisburg are greeted in the downtown Pearisburg as well as outside in the downtown Pearisburg as well as outside the town area to a parade of scarecrows during the month of October. A parade.

[Jimmy Westman]

They just all walking.

[James Petragalo]

I guess they're all walking with pumpkins on their heads here. They're going to have vendors and live entertainment which is so good that they won't tell you what it is. But based on the pictures of it, one was a bunch of old people and another one was a guy in a dak Prescott. A dak Prescott cowboys jersey singing Virginia singing outside of a. Like a. Like a garage shop. Like that was. They just had a stage set up out right outside the bay doors of a garage.

[Jimmy Westman]

You do it.

[James Petragalo]

It's big time. It's big time. A car and motorcycle cruise in a dog show.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

Oh baby. A dog show and more. Don't miss this event. I don't know how you could. I will not miss it. So thing to do. It really is the only thing to do. There looking all the shit up. I mean, 2800 people. What do you want? It's mainly all the like recreation is outdoor shit here. It's in the mountains. It's right by the Appalachian Trail. So it's essentially people hunt and fish and you know, camp and do all that shit. There's not a lot of really other.

[Jimmy Westman]

Wheelers shit like that.

[James Petragalo]

That's kind of what the area is about. So more than that and you know, this is like this is getting all the people in from the hills to come actually into town and do something here. Crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here, property crime is actually higher than the national average somehow.

[Jimmy Westman]

Is that right?

[James Petragalo]

There's 2,800 people and they walk around with pumpkins on their heads and somehow there's a lot of crime. I don't get it. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average. So they won't kill you, but they'll steal your shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

So that's that.

[James Petragalo]

They want your car. They want your car. That said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say everybody? Let's do this. Let's talk about a lady first here. Talk about a woman named Loretta Smith. Now Loretta Smith here, she is a hard working lady. She starts out in the laundry at the Giles Memorial Hospital and works her way up to a nurse's aid. So hard, hard working lady. Yeah, I mean that's, that's, you know, hospital works, hard work. It just is she apparently here he. She gets married.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Has a young boy named Randall Lee Smith. And that's her. That's her. That's her son. He's born in 1954. And then poor Loretta here with her son there is divorced when Randall is six months old.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh no.

[James Petragalo]

So now it's like 1955 and she's a single mom all alone, working in the laundry of the hospital with a baby boy. And we'll never hear from this dad again. He just disappears and that's it, he's gone. So I mean there's no help at all and anything like that. So she and her son are a pair. They're gonna.

[Jimmy Westman]

We're in it to win it.

[James Petragalo]

You're just the two of them here and Randall the son, Randy as people call him. Not only they call him Randy, they also have a nickname for him.

[Jimmy Westman]

Great.

[James Petragalo]

It's good when, when you have a nickname and the whole town just calls you that.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's awesome.

[James Petragalo]

It fits. It's a Good nickname for you. Well, his nickname that everyone calls him is Lion Randall.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragalo]

Yep, lion with an apostrophe. It is Skeeter. Nope, it is Lion Randall lr. They literally call him lr. Hey, what's up, lr? That's fucking bad.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's tough stuff.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. That's not T bone or something, shit like that.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's not cool at all.

[James Petragalo]

That's not cool. Hey, what's up? Lion Randall's over here. And he just goes, hey, everybody. So now when he was little, they lived in several small houses around, trying to find a place because she doesn't have a lot of money at all. You know, times are tough here. And so finally they settle down in a four room single story home. It's got a basement too, but four, not four bedroom, four room. It's a very small little house they live in. It's like a little box basically. And that's where they're gonna live. They find that when I think Randall's about four or five years old.

[Jimmy Westman]

Perfect.

[James Petragalo]

And they are gonna stay there for the duration. That's their forever home here. It's at 190 Virginia street in Pearisburg in the Ingram Village area. Apparently. Now, like I said, Loretta worked in the laundry room at Giles Memorial Hospital. A neighbor of theirs who's, I guess, vaguely related to them, a guy named Carl. Carl, My sort of cousin over here fella? Yeah, kind of cousin Carl. He said she made a living and that's about all. That's it. And it was tough. Just enough to pay the rent and get some food, but outside of that, not much going on here. And Randall, in addition to being, you know, poor and not having a dad, which back then was not shameful, not normal back then especially like in a rural area, you know, so, you know, that was. That made him a little bit different. And then he made sure to make himself as different as possible as well. And it's not like he did it on purpose. Like he was just trying to be different. He's not like Damien Echols or something. Like just what did he do? Trying to freak out the squares. He's just a weird kid. He's just a weird kid. He like other kids would play and congregate and do games and Randall would just like stay a yard away, just like looking at him. But he wouldn't like go play or do anything. Just leering like a fucking creep. He didn't have any many friends at all in school. I mean, very rarely did someone talk to him other than to just Be like it's Ryan Randall and fucking make fun of him or something. One guy who went to school with him named Gerald Smith said he was a loner and he stayed too much to himself and then said the funniest thing I've ever heard. For a child not to ever have a friend. That's unusual. It is, yeah. I would say so. Yeah. Usually kids will find somebody that's else that's weird to amount of time to.

[Jimmy Westman]

Spend by yourself though, you know, I.

[James Petragalo]

Mean, I mean I guess if it's.

[Jimmy Westman]

Noticeable then that's the wrong amount.

[James Petragalo]

I think so. I think whenever you see all the kids out playing and you never see Randall in the group, I think that's when it's, you know, that's when it's.

[Jimmy Westman]

Too, too, too much.

[James Petragalo]

Where's Randall? He's just like sitting in his yard. You're like, okay, he's a creep staring at people. So. Yeah. And it's self inflicted too. Like he's just very, very strange. A very strange man. And we'll find out. There's no like he doesn't have like a, you know, a disability or like a mental problem. He's just a strange fucking weird guy.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah. Super low immune system or anything?

[James Petragalo]

No, nothing like that. He's just sticking or staying away from people. He just doesn't want to be put back in the bubble.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

That's all it is. So he, his big interest. All the other kids are into like, you know, baseball and then girls and then cars and stuff like that. He's into collecting arrowheads that he finds buried in the ground out in the Appalachian trail behind his house. Which the other.

[Jimmy Westman]

I imagine.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, must be, I guess if he made a lifelong like hobby of it. There's got to be plenty otherwise you get bored by the time you're 12 if you can't find anymore.

[Jimmy Westman]

I got three.

[James Petragalo]

I found three of them. Then I turned 12 and I'm still looking. So I don't know. But he, that's what they said. He would basically go out into the woods by himself and that was, that was his day. He'd come back later in the night with a couple of arrowheads and they were like, have a good day, Randall. He's like, oh yeah. Found a couple arrowheads and that. He seemed to be fine with that.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Which is weird.

[Jimmy Westman]

See, Lobbying.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, for sure. So Loretta, Loretta's sister lived next door and her husband, who's Randall's uncle would take him camping sometimes. I was like. So that to give him some kind of I guess male influence. And Loretta wasn't a big camper, so this guy would take him camping. And even he said, randall's a weird fucking kid. He's just a weird kid. He's just weird. He's one of those kids that's weird. Randall drops out of school after 11th grade and he actually, he's got like. He's not lazy. That's one thing about Randall. No, he doesn't. He doesn't seem lazy. I know. Dropped out after the 11th grade. Well, I mean, I stopped like halfway through my senior year. So. It tells you how dumb I am. Yeah. Very angry. So close. Well, I realized I was going to be credit short, and I was like, what am I doing? What am I doing here? Yeah. So this guy, he just. I don't know if you. How many credits short he was going to be, but maybe a lot. I'm going to assume quite a few. And he's. Like I said, he's pretty industrious, though. He. He likes to. Likes to do things. He's got a motor. And after this, he makes. He heads over to Newport News, Virginia and gets jobs working welding jobs in a shipyard.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petragalo]

At 17, that's. That's man work, you know.

[Jimmy Westman]

Go getter.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, yeah. And that's. Those are like guys with families and kids to support welding in the shipyards. So angry fellas. Yeah, yeah, that's a real, like a tough job. So he does that. He'll go like, do, you know, a couple weeks of work, like a project, and then he'll be home for a while and he'll go back. I think he just makes enough money to have some money for a while and then he goes back and works more. And so, yeah, he would just leave and come back and leave and come back. And when he'd come back, he'd have crazy stories to tell. Yeah, crazy stories. Now, all through junior high and high school, there was never a girlfriend. There was never a girl he talked to. There was never a friend who was a girl. Like, he just. No girls talked to him and he didn't talk to girls, basically. But when he would try to fit in, he would just lie. That would be his way to fit in.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

All these other kids, I got a girlfriend. This one's talking about this. He just makes some shit up. So he. In his mind, it would make him fit in. So one of his classmates said, quote, he was a habitual liar. We called him LR all the time. Lying Randall. Yeah, he called him lr. He would. Habitual Liar. And it is too. He says shit that can't possibly be true. That's the crazy shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

He's things that aren't even plausible. Yeah. Like he'd go and do like a two week welding job and come home and then talk about having multiple girlfriends and children out there.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

Somehow he knocked people up and they had full gestation. And spit a kid out in the two weeks he was in Virginia.

[Jimmy Westman]

He's fantasizing about the wrong life.

[James Petragalo]

He really is. He's like, I got girlfriends and I've been slipping them past the goalie left and right. And it's just tough. They're gonna hit me with that child support soon. It's rough. But no one ever saw him or knew of any actual romantic relationship he ever had. Not like he brought any of these girls home with them or anything. It's like, who? You should see me in Virginia. Newport News. They can't keep their hands off me. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp is fantastic. You know what else is fantastic? The holidays. I love it. I love the holiday season. I love December. I love lights. I love trees. I like cold. I like it all. I want it all. The snow. I want all of it. That's right. It's nice and cozy. There's a thing here, though. Therapy is a good way to bring yourself discomfort that never goes away. It's not just one month out of the season. It's all the time. We are proponents of better health because we're big proponents of therapy and big proponents of something that's eating you up. What should they do, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Westman]

Go get. Go get help.

[James Petragalo]

Go get help. Talk to somebody about it. It's not going to hurt. It's going to be better for you. Absolutely. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. Do it up. It's entirely online. It's super convenient. It's flexible. So find comfort this December with better help. Visit betterhelp.com smalltown murder today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H E-L-P.com smalltown murder now back to the show.

[Jimmy Westman]

Christmas is coming up, James. Did you know that?

[James Petragalo]

It is coming up. That's very important. You know what people should do around Christmas? Oh, you need shopping money. And the thing is, sometimes you're gonna find money in places you never thought, like where, like subscriptions that you're paying for that you don't need to pay for because you don't even know you're paying for them, but yet they're coming out of your account every month.

[Jimmy Westman]

How can you fix that?

[James Petragalo]

Rocket Money is what helped me out. That's the thing. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow that savings. Rocket Money will they negotiate lower bills for you? They can do that by up to 20%. All you have to do, submit a picture of your bill. Rocket Money, they take care of the rest. They'll deal with customer service. You don't need to be on hold for two hours. Rocket Money will take care of it. It's wonderful. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in cancelled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to Rocketmoney.com Smalltown Murder that's Rocketmoney.com Smalltown Murder Rocketmoney.com Smalltown Murder now back to the show.

[Jimmy Westman]

I got news for you. You don't want much life, Randall.

[James Petragalo]

No, you don't. Randall. So no one remembered him going to like parties that the kids had or social events or never any of that. Like, oh yeah, I remember that big kegger when Randall got drunk and ran into that tree. Like, there's no stories of Randall like.

[Jimmy Westman]

That got the cheerleader pregnant.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. On other the ones that when he did show up to things like that, all he would do is lie and no one would want to talk to him.

[Jimmy Westman]

Awesome.

[James Petragalo]

His friend said he told lies about the money he didn't have about a property he claimed to own in other states. So not only does he have girlfriends and children, but property too. He lives quite the life outside of this place. But then he just comes home to live with his mom for a few weeks just to take a break from it all. The rat race. It gets to you after a while.

[Jimmy Westman]

It really is exhausting.

[James Petragalo]

Gotta take a little break here. And this is a pretty poor area too. At the time in the 70s, his mom's house was worth less than $10,000.

[Jimmy Westman]

What?

[James Petragalo]

Less than $10,000.

[Jimmy Westman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

Which, I mean, even adjusted for inflation. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's incredible.

[James Petragalo]

That's way crazy. That's like 60 grand it's worth now. Which. How many houses are worth 60 grand? They're not very good houses. We've. We've seen them on a real estate report here. It's a bad fucking house. So that's. That is crazy. So they, like I said, but for them, this was a good house because it was the best house they've had. I mean, you know. Now Randall at one point when asked about this, I guess his family didn't go to church. Him and Loretta. Loretta's probably tired. I think she's. She's got to work at the hospital.

[Jimmy Westman]

You want me to go on Sunday?

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, that's my only day off. I'm not going. So he didn't go to church. And I guess in this area if you didn't go to church, you were considered a little aberrant and you kind of have to lie about it. So he said, quote, by the time I was in junior high, I'd learned to lie when someone asked what church I went to. Rumors always spread like wildfire, ending with a dozen people personally letting me know I was going to hell or telling me they were praying for my soul. He's like, my mom's just tired.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

And it's my weekend with the kids. So, you know, it's a lot.

[Jimmy Westman]

The little lady won't let me. She's, I mean, gone all week. We're trying to bang on somebody.

[James Petragalo]

I was gonna say both. Both these. My girlfriends are there. It's a tug of war at this point. And you know, I don't have room for God to come in and pull on the other side. So he had very few of any friends. And his one guy, the Spower guy, he describes himself as probably the closest person to Smith. And they're not even close. He's the guy who said he's a habitual liar and you know, blah, blah, blah.

[Jimmy Westman]

But let me get close.

[James Petragalo]

The thing is about Randall. Randy is a hell of a welder, apparently. Really his welding work is on point, which, I mean, he keeps getting like hired for jobs in the shipyard. So it has to be decent.

[Jimmy Westman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

So Spaur has a shop where he does like drag racers and off road vehicles and all that kind of shit. Repairs and makes and customizes. So whenever Randall is home from Virginia, he'll hire Randall to do welding work for him at the shop. Because he said, he said, quote, he was a real good welder. That's what Spower said. So as much as he lies and as weird as he is, he's a decent welder. I mean, you ever talk to welders? A lot of them are weird people.

[Jimmy Westman]

The vast majority.

[James Petragalo]

Pretty interesting folks there. So they said he would drop out of sight for weeks at a Time. This is hilarious, man. Because this spower, he'd be working welding, doing shit, putting stuff together, and he'd have a couple other people in his shop helping him out or whatever, doing spot jobs. They said that you would. Randall would have been gone for a month. They forgot all about Randall. They're working and then they turn around and Randall would just be in the corner working on something. He'd just show up, not even say hi, and just start working on shit. They were like, all right, Randy's back. I guess that's what kind of a fucking weird guy he is. Like, he comes in from.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah. Torch around. Or he's just leaving all its shit there and pop in to put a 74 Nova on the front of a fucking tugboat.

[James Petragalo]

I think that it's. I think that it's a shop that has all the equipment. So he just comes in and starts doing shit. Yeah, that's it. So they're. They're really like, what a fucking.

[Jimmy Westman]

Uses a torch and a welder and goes to work.

[James Petragalo]

What a weird. Yeah. It doesn't even say hello. So they're like, okay, well, I mean, he's welding, I guess, over here.

[Jimmy Westman]

I'll just do it.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, that's it. So they thought that was very weird. Just like he never left, you know what I mean? Like, even like when they'd all stop working, he'd be like, so, you know, you start talking about a job, they'd be like, how you been for a month, Randy?

[Jimmy Westman]

Right. Where have you been for a month?

[James Petragalo]

Hey, normal people conversation. How you been? What's been going on? Were you in Virginia or Newport News or whatever? And they said that the weird part is that once they would be done with all this stuff, like when they would be done with cars or trucks or drag racers or four wheelers.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

They would, you know, go do like four wheeling shit. And they would like go to the race to watch the car. Randall wouldn't perform. He wouldn't come with them ever.

[Jimmy Westman]

What?

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, he didn't want to go. And they said, well, why. Come on, Randall, why don't you go out with us? And he'd say, quote, it's my weekend to have the children. Okay.

[Jimmy Westman]

He doesn't like you guys at all.

[James Petragalo]

Children, not child even. All of them. He just goes for a couple months. Comes home with multiple kids apparently, that are born and ready to be watched by him. Yeah, it's fucking weird. He's also, in addition to arrowheads, he has one other big interest. Oh, yeah, it's. It's three mainly these are. This is the big triad, arrowheads, Welding.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

And nude pictures in Hustler and Penthouse. Sure loves those.

[Jimmy Westman]

Those are the good ones.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, loves them. And I mean, this is the 70s, so that's about the heyday for fucking porn, Max. And that's about the highest level of accessible porn that normal people in a small town would have. It's not like he can go to Times Square and go to, you know, jack booths or anything. This is. He's going to whatever store in rural Virginia they might have a hustler, you know, that's big time for him. So he would take his favorite pictures.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Cut them out with an X acto knife.

[Jimmy Westman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

From the, you know, from the magazine. Not like cut out the silhouette of the picture, the actual whole page. And laminate it. So he can just whack it for years on that.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah. And just wipe her down and go again.

[James Petragalo]

He's like, I'm going to buy me a laminating machine and a squeegee and this is going to be my forever thing here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Remember when you had to cut out magazines and glue them to a paper board and the Elmer's glue would fuck.

[James Petragalo]

That paper up, make it all fucking bubbly? Yeah, that was the worst. I always use too much glue. Also.

[Jimmy Westman]

Laminate that shit. You are good.

[James Petragalo]

Laminate it up. So he did that. He had a collection of magazines which he would either laminate the pictures or put them in plastic, like comic book sleeves. Like they're valuable. Serving them like it's a Superman number one or some shit. Here it is.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

The fucking hustler 77 fucking spread in the middle here. So that's what he would do. And that was very strange. He also was obsessed with. His other obsession is his truck. He's got a four wheel drive pickup truck. And he is absolutely obsessed with the. Not only the mechanical working of it, but also its cleanliness. He's constantly polishing it with a rag.

[Jimmy Westman]

Gotta keep that truck clean.

[James Petragalo]

It's clean. It's not that great of a truck. It's like an older truck. He doesn't give a shit. He's on it, though.

[Jimmy Westman]

Looks brand new, though.

[James Petragalo]

He told everybody that there were several airline stewardesses, in his words, that were in love with him. He's never been on a plane in his fucking life.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So I don't know where he's meeting several airline stewardesses or why they would fall for him.

[Jimmy Westman]

Right.

[James Petragalo]

Maybe they love. You know, I always hear it's a old cliche that stewardesses flight attendants are suckers for an arrowhead collection. I hear Southern accent.

[Jimmy Westman]

Really, really gets the. The gay fellas that are flight attendants.

[James Petragalo]

Yes, the gay fellas and the, and the fucking 75 year old women who are around there. That's pretty much who flight attendants are now. In the 70s, though, flight attendants were. They had to have like physical, like there was. You can't be.

[Jimmy Westman]

There was attributes.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, they had like a weight for your height that, you know. Flight attendants were very, very attractive in the 70s. And they were considered like, they are just. Yeah, they just hire whoever applies for it now. It's just, it's basically, you know, whoever would be waiting tables but doesn't want to wait tables.

[Jimmy Westman]

There it is.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, that's what they're doing with seats in the sky. That and then there's the flight attendants who've been doing it for 45 fucking years.

[Jimmy Westman]

They cannot wait to quit this.

[James Petragalo]

They can't wait. And they're like. People used to say I had a nice ass when I walked by, you know, like, okay, grandma, that's great. You're pretty surly now, so I don't think so. So he would fantasize about that. He drinks as much as, you know, casually as much as other people. He's not an alcoholic, but he's also not a teetotaler of any kind. Drinks a normal amount. Occasional drug user. Mostly just some weed here and there or something like that. Nothing. He's not really into that too much. He has no criminal record. Doesn't get in trouble because you have to do things and go places to get in trouble, you gotta leave the house. Yeah, generally, yeah. Digging for arrowheads and welding in your neighbor's garage really aren't things that you're gonna get in trouble too much for. So. Yeah, so he did some odd jobs. He went and did some welding and came back and this left him free to do what he really loved, which was hang out all the time on the Appalachian Trail.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

Now if you don't know what the Appalachian Trail is, it goes from Maine all the way to Georgia. It's over 2,000 miles long. And it's an uninterrupted trail where you can walk all the way through it. No roads. Go the whole thing on foot. Yep. You don't have to like stop at an interstate crossing or anything. It's just right down. They've made everything around it, so it's very cool. Like you can go. There's entrances to it. Probably about 15 minutes to my house from my house. You can go on the Appalachian Trail. And when I was a kid, teenager, we used to go there. You drive out to the Appalachian Trail, and they had, like, little bunk house things, basically, where you could sit and smoke weed in there, and they had, like, cots you could sit on and smoke weed, get cover from the rain and shit like that. So it was fun. And the trail was gorgeous, too. Like, little bridges over streams to walk over and. Shit's idyllic. It really is.

[Jimmy Westman]

It looks like a hairy armpit gal with a. Oh, you're gonna get that.

[James Petragalo]

You're gonna get that. Yeah, yeah, she's. And if she doesn't like what you're doing, she will pelt you a trail mix. Don't think she won. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. It's rough. It's. Dried cranberries hurt when they hit you. Let me tell you something. So that's what he liked to do. He liked to do the Appalachian Trail. He wouldn't hike it. He just liked to hang out on it. And also, there's, like, fishing in there. There's all sorts of creeks and stuff. So he'd go fishing. Yeah, outdoorsy shit. Looking for his arrowheads, like we said, that sort of thing. So now he takes off from his house on May 30, 1981. All right, May 30, 1981. Randall. The house he shares with his mom, he says, I gotta go somewhere. I gotta go. I'm taking off. I'm going to Connecticut.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh.

[James Petragalo]

And then he leaves the house. Now, he had been gone for over a week before that as well.

[Jimmy Westman]

Just got back from him.

[James Petragalo]

So he'd been gone. Yeah, just got back from a week. Popped in and said, I'm taking off. I have to go to Connecticut. And he got in his truck and he left. And that was that. He was gone. So Virginia didn't know what the hell was going on. His mother, he just thought. At this point, I don't think you question weird shit that Randall does. If you're his mom, you just go, okay, whatever. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, he's been weird his whole life. He's continuing to be weird. I can't fix it. So then we kind of find out what happened to him and where he's going, because we find out back on May 19, about 11 days before this, there had been an incident on the trail here. There was a man named Robert Mountford Jr. Who was 27 at the time, but looked like a retired defensive coordinator for an NFL football Team. He had like a big Dave Wanstadt mustache.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragalo]

He looked like he was 48 years old. He was 27. So crazy while back then how different people looked. So Robert was with another 27 year old named Laura, Susan Ramsey, who goes by Susan. Now these two were hiking the Appalachian Trail. They might be some of the nicest people I've ever heard of here. These two kind, they're social workers from Ellsworth, Maine. They're counselors at the Homestead Project, which is a home for disturbed children in Ellsworth, Maine. Which to be able to do that, number one, hats off to you, you know I can't fucking do that. So they decided on their idea. They would hike the entire 20, 50 mile Appalachian Trail.

[Jimmy Westman]

Right.

[James Petragalo]

To raise money for mentally disturbed children. Oh, that is pretty nice. Yeah, I can't work with the kids and I'm Definitely not walking 2,000 miles, walking 50 miles. Not doing that. I'll, I'll pay, I'll sponsor your walk, but that's about it. So Ramsey had joined him as well because it was Bob's idea. He's going to do the whole thing. Susan comes in as well. Now around the 19th they were seen at the Bland county store, which is called Trent's Grocery. So they're seen at Trent's and apparently they earlier in the day had befriended a female hiker on the trail. This is a very, this trail is a very social thing too.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, yeah, it's a lifestyle. It's like driving a jeep.

[James Petragalo]

It's driving a jeep or it's like those weird golf cart old people neighborhoods like where they congregate on their golf. Yep, that's what this is. People walking up and down the trail will meet other hikers and go meet up at our campsite later and we'll all drink and all that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

We'll all be part of this together.

[James Petragalo]

Once the sun goes down, there's nothing to do there. So it's just drink and hang out. Drink till you can sleep basically and then wake up. So they befriended this female hiker. They all agreed to meet in the area above Pearisburg. Now this woman waits for them and waits for them, but they never show up. Now rather than thinking that maybe they didn't like me as much as I thought they did, which is what I would think.

[Jimmy Westman]

High opinion of yourself.

[James Petragalo]

Right. If someone didn't show up, I go, I thought they liked me. Fuck. And I just sit there the whole night going, I guess they didn't like me.

[Jimmy Westman]

They did.

[James Petragalo]

I suck. I Guess, yeah, I would just think I was a piece of shit all night. This woman is so confident in herself. She alerted the authorities.

[Jimmy Westman]

Clearly it's not me.

[James Petragalo]

It's definitely not that they don't want to hang out with me all night. A stranger that they just met, tragedy has befell them. Obviously there must be crime. That's what happened. That's the only way this didn't happen. So she alerts authorities. So the authorities look for them as they do. The U.S. forestry Service employees here. Now, they had heard that the last people who saw Bob and Susan said that they were with a man named Billy Joe. Which they were like, well, shit, that's half the people who live around here. Fuck. God damn it. Jesus Christ. Fuck. Billy Joe said the. They said that we. They saw this. He's calling him a guy calling himself Billy Joe. And this was at the Wapiti 2 shelter. They saw this. Now there's all these little shelters along the trail that are just basically three sided wooden boxes with a roof. So there's an open side to it, but it's good to protect you against elements, wind, cold, rain, things like that. And it's a good place to camp too, because there's a wooden floor.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, it's already above the ground.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. So you're not like with the animals or anything. So you can put your tent, you put your sleeping bag in there and it's a better place to sleep and also just to hang out. People hang out in these shelters. So that is where they were seen with Billy Joe at the Wapiti 2 shelter. That's the name of it. So they're invest. They're investigating, they're going all. They got several investigators looking because after an initial search, nobody comes up with them. And apparently they had plans to meet other people. Like they had a whole bunch of plans that none of them came to fruition. So they think they might be missing. So they had a few different investigators going up and down the trail, asking other hikers about them. Have you seen them, anything like that? One hiker told them, the police, that Mountford and Ramsey had been seen with what they called a quote, strange looking man near the Wapiti shelter. So that's where they said. So now they've been told by multiple people that they were seen at the Wapiti shelter, both with a weirdo named Billy Joe. So a local, they're probably thinking, I would imagine. So the investigators head to the Wapiti shelter because they go, they got it. They must have been there. Maybe they Left some kind of clue behind. So the initial. The main head investigator here looks around the shelter and it's very small. It's smaller than a bedroom in a house.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's like an easy up.

[James Petragalo]

That's exactly what it is. It's a very small thing. You could probably fit, I would say you can lay probably side by side. You could probably have five sleeping bags in there comfortably to where you wouldn't bump into people. Otherwise it would be kind of, you know, a little crowded. So he ends up looking around, doesn't see anything until he looks down at the floor, floor of the shelter where he said it looked like something had run down between the floorboards. Quote. So I run my knife down between the boards. It was a thick and red substance down there.

[Jimmy Westman]

Scunge.

[James Petragalo]

Scunge, Red scunge. Fucking discarded Kool Aid. So he said, I need to, we need to tear this floorboard up. I think there's blood here or scunge, but we're going to check it out. So what they did is once they figured out it is blood under the floorboards, they went out 30 yards in all directions, kicking over logs and knocking weeds out of the way. They came upon a small open area. In this area, they noticed a big mound of leaves, as if someone tried to cover something up. There's nobody raking out here. So if you see a pile of leaves, you know it's not just an animal going, I gotta clean this place up. Jesus Christ, let me. There's people all walking all around. We look like slobs. Clean up everybody. That's not happening. So they start digging in the leaves and they notice a cloth sleeping bag in the leaves, and there's something inside the sleeping bag and It's Susan Ramsey, 27 year old Susan Ramsay. So they find her, then they bring in dogs because they go, okay, now we actually know we have a crime scene here. So they bring in dogs that are trained to search for bodies. Cadaver dogs. The dog stops several hundred yards from the shelter, poking its nose around. And then it sat down near a stump. Now, the cop, who by the way is the dog's trainer and handler, said, quote, I thought maybe he was tired. Not like I taught him how to signify what he found when we're looking for it. But okay, turns out he wasn't tired. He found something.

[Jimmy Westman]

Attaboy.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, the dog's not lazy. He's into this. The dog has much more like gumption than these cops do. Yeah, so does Randall, as a matter of fact. Yeah, so right There, also buried in a sleeping bag, they find Bob Mountford as well. So now we have Bob and Susan. Both found obviously killed in the woods and. And covered up too. I mean, neither of them are, you know, obvious to the naked eye. There's. Their bodies have been covered. Bob is several hundred yards from the site. I mean, he's not even close. And Bob's a pretty decent sized guy too, for. So for someone to get him from the shelter all the way out there would take something, you know what I mean? He'd been shot three times in the head. Bob, Susan had completely different wounds. She wasn't shot at all. No, that's the other thing. That's. Yeah, this was. Bob was disposed of quickly, it looks like. Whereas Susan had defensive marks all over her hands. She had, she fought. Which if you put together logically, what happened here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, it's pretty easy.

[James Petragalo]

It's pretty easy to see. He wants to get rid of the guy to have something to do with this woman here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Whatever experience he wants, he's got it.

[James Petragalo]

So the police said she fought him very hard. He used a piece of iron to hit her in the head. He also stabbed her with a long nail. A long nail. And we'll find out exactly where that came from. She had 13 puncture wounds from the nail.

[Jimmy Westman]

Jesus.

[James Petragalo]

As well as stab wounds from a knife too. So she. Three different weapons used on her. Blunt force to the head, nail punctures and stab wounds on her three different ways. Three different ways. Meanwhile, Bob shot three times in the head. She is also wrapped in plastic. Susan is before she's stuffed in her sleeping bag, whereas Bob is just in the sleeping bag with no plastic. Interesting. So the medical examiner said the hikers had been dead at least several days when their bodies were discovered. So this is on the 30th, they're found. So I'm thinking this is the same day that Randall takes off to Connecticut.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yep.

[James Petragalo]

So I'm thinking here that they were probably killed on the 19th and have been in the woods for 10 days like this.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's been a while.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, it's been a while. That's crazy. Now, Robert, a little more about the. The injuries here. Robert had been shot in the head, but police couldn't find the gun. There's no gun in the area? No. And they looked for that everywhere. Metal detectors, you name it, they couldn't find it. Susan had been stabbed, what they said, repeatedly in the chest. Not only that's with the knife, and then it's on top of the puncture wounds. With the nail hit in the back of the head with a blunt. With a blunt instrument. And the police found those weapons, though? Oh, yes. But not the gun. The. The lead investigator said, we discovered a piece of angle iron, wrought iron, that was in the. Was in the fireplace that was used as a poker to stir up the ashes.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, so he's okay.

[James Petragalo]

Yep. He said, I did see a large spike nail that had been used to put the shelter together as well there.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So they think that is what he was using. Pulled a nail out this guy, just whatever was around. I mean, the fireplace poker and a nail from the shelter is crazy. Based on the forensic evidence, they believe that the killer attacked the two hikers after they went to sleep. So they think they went to sleep and then they shot Bob Mountford. The investigator says, quote, it does not penetrate the skull. The first shot.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, no, he.

[James Petragalo]

That's. Dude, this guy had a big fucking like ex NFL defensive lineman head on him, apparently, so thick bullets don't fucking penetrate it.

[Jimmy Westman]

Not on the first shot.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. He says as Mountford starts to turn over and starts to get up, he shoots him in the cheek, which is a little softer. That round goes up and into the brain. That's the round that killed him. And then he shot him one more time, too, just to make sure. But this guy's skull will repel bullets. That's how that is impressive. So he said. Then the killer turned his attention to Sudan Susan Ramsey. And based on the crime scene, he puts together that quote, she runs, he chases, grabs the wrought iron poker. As she's running, he's taking the spike nail that was on the ground. He's stabbing her as she went down. He hits her in the back of the head. At that point, she's at his mercy because she's out of it. And police could not determine, because this is also 19, you know, early 80s, police could not determine if she had been sexually assaulted because of the decomposition of the body for 10 days. 10 days in the woods in the summer in Virginia is going to.

[Jimmy Westman]

In a bag. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

In a plastic bag is also going to make it worse. So they don't know. But I assume that would be the reason for why he's doing this. I can't imagine any other reason why someone would do this. The investigator said, I don't know. It's amazing what human beings can do to other human beings. He also said, we found evidence in tree stumps, in knotholes, in trees, under rocks. We found two paperback books that belonged to her. One of the paperback Books. When we were thumbing through the pages, we found a fingerprint, a bloody fingerprint on the book. Okay. They also talk about Susan had cuts and bruises on her fingers to show what kind of defensive wound she had. Both bodies had been dragged from the shelter. Also, tests of the blood for Bob and Susan showed that they had drank enough to be under, like, you know, drunk, legally. But, yeah, they're in the fucking woods. Of course they're drunk. Yeah, they're camping. So when they came across her backpack, that's where they found the book. It's a paperback novel called Mount Olive. One word by Lawrence Durrell. And I've never heard of the book before. Not sure, but it had the bloody fingerprints. One of the bloody fingerprints wasn't hers. Oh, great lead. Yes. So they had this fingerprint. It's not Bob's either. They test that. So now they're like, okay, this is probably a murderer, I would say. So they run it through the regular database. Nothing comes up. Run it through the FBI database, Nothing comes up. They got nothing. So now they're like, well, fuck, what do we do? So then they decided, okay, what if we go to private industries that fingerprint their employees and see if we can run that. So the first place. One of the first places they go is the Norfolk shipyards. Oh, because you have to be to work in shipyards, you have to be fingerprinted Terrorist. Yeah, you got even. Even back then. You had to do that. So they end up running it through there, and they get a print hit on Randall Smith because Randall had to get his fingerprints done to go to the Norfolk shipyard. So they're like, okay, well, that's a place to start. And Randall lives nearby. They look at his address and they're like, well, all this makes a lot of sense. This is lucky. Yeah, this is lucky. Then they ask around, they find out he's a guy that's always hanging out on the trail and all that kind of shit. By the way, this was the first double homicide in the history of the 2100 mile trail here. So, yeah, there's been single homicides, but never a double. Now, there's a friend who was supposed to be there, Renate Lillifers, who had planned to join the hikers but didn't because of a foot injury. Oh, yeah, he got lucky. This guy here, this person, he said that they found out from the cops that charcoal from a campfire had been used to smear over the blood stains on the wood floor of the shelter.

[Jimmy Westman]

Pretty smart.

[James Petragalo]

Which is smart. That's what I mean, Randall's not a fucking idiot. That's the thing.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Cunning. Exactly. So that's, I mean that you wouldn't notice that looking down quickly. You'd have to look down between the cracks to really see anything. So police, when they removed the floored boards, obviously confiscated them as evidence and they found also some of the victim's belongings covered with leaves and tree stumps in the woods near where the bodies were recovered. So he kind of just spread their shit and just kind of buried it temporarily. None of these things that he was doing is a permanent solution. That's what I don't get, Jeff.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's very. The earth will take this.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, it's real short sighted as far as no one will ever stumble across this body is kind of a crazy thought On a trail where there's constantly people on it. It doesn't make any sense.

[Jimmy Westman]

Made a very obvious grave with leaves on it.

[James Petragalo]

That's, that's the thing. He would have been better off like burying them shallow or something. But to make a pile of leaves that looks unnatural in the woods. I have woods. I've never seen a pile of leaves like that ever once in those woods. And if I did, I'm running the other fucking direction. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you more about our safest sponsor, Simplisafe. If you ever worry about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act than right now. Simplisafe is the home security that we trust. That is a fact. We've been using it for I think seven years now. And it brings great peace of mind. It's fantastic. You know your stuff is protected. You knowing your home is protected 24, 7 by SimpliSafe is a huge relief. Get 50% off today just by visiting simplisafe.com small it's your last chance to protect your home at Simplisafe's lowest prices of the year. Simplisafe's Active Guard outdoor protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. If someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, those agents see them in real time, talk to them directly, set off your spotlights and even call the police before anybody's had a chance to get into your house. That is awesome. Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only. You can get 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to simplisafe.com Small that's SimpliSafe. S I m p l I safe.com Small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Westman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragalo]

Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about quints. Quints can help you with this pesky holiday shopping that we all have to deal with. It's so hard trying to get. It's hard picking gifts for people, people you love. You want them to have something nice, check out quints. You can do it. Quints lets you treat your loved ones and yourself to true quality at an affordable price. Everyone's happy here. Something everyone needs in their closet here. Quince's iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Always nice. A classic. They start at $50. We've used quince. I found very nice stuff on quints at a great price. I got a jacket, sunglasses. Jimmy's got some pants he's rocking. It's good stuff. Gift luxury this season without the luxury price tag, go to quince.com smalltown murder for 365 day return returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U-N-E.com smalltown murder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com smalltown murder now back to the show. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. We all know the old saying about teaching a man to fish. And as parents, we want our kids to learn the things that will set them up for success. So this holiday season, give kids money skills that last well beyond 2024 with Greenlight. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families where kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. With parental controls built in. Sign up [e-mail] wondery greenlight.com wondery somebody put a body there and I don't want to know about it. So, yeah, they said that. This is funny. This is the guy who could have been there with them but had a foot injury. He said, quote, this is such a narcissistic, quote, I could have been with them. That's what's strange to me.

[Jimmy Westman]

To you?

[James Petragalo]

That's what's strange. Not that this happened at all, but that I could have been there. Can you imagine that? Not me. Fuck them, but me. He also said Bob and Susan were not violent people. They would not instigate what happened. They wouldn't be like, fuck you looking at, fucking hillbilly. Get over. You know, not try to fight them or anything.

[Jimmy Westman]

And I wouldn't either if I was with them, because I was supposed to be. But that's the weird part.

[James Petragalo]

That's the weird, though. That's the strange thing to me. I could have been there.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So now there's a giant don't be Afraid of the Trail campaign.

[Jimmy Westman]

Of course.

[James Petragalo]

Of course. Because people are terrified of this now, which, I mean. Yeah. You're in the woods, you're by yourself. It's alone, it's dark, quiet, no good. Anything can happen out there. We've all seen Friday the 13th. So in Appalachian Trail, they're saying it's safe. An official is urging backpackers to stay away from that section of the trail. Just stay away from the crime scene, that piece. Everything else is fine.

[Jimmy Westman]

He would never leave and go do it somewhere else.

[James Petragalo]

No, no, no, no. He's probably hiding very close, nearby, maybe up in a tree. I'm sure we missed him. But don't go by there. So Dave Startzel, who's the associate director of the Appalachian Trail Conference, guy running this joint, he says just looking at the statistics, it's probably still safer along the Appalachian Trail than in most suburban backyards, right? Yes, because most. Most people have had double murders in their backyard.

[Jimmy Westman]

Shitloads.

[James Petragalo]

Literally just last weekend in their suburban backyard. I try to tell people, stop killing people in my backyard.

[Jimmy Westman]

Every time I come back, they keep coming back from the road.

[James Petragalo]

How many? How many bodies?

[Jimmy Westman]

There's three bodies in my.

[James Petragalo]

Three bodies. Four bodies. If it's a long trip, you know, I was in Phoenix for a week.

[Jimmy Westman]

I've got to clean this up first.

[James Petragalo]

Nope. Five bodies. Next thing you know, and you go to urgent care, you come back, there's a body there. That's the problem. Every time. Every time I can't cook dinner. You know what I mean? It's ridiculous already.

[Jimmy Westman]

Paul's cough drops and shovels, I'm buying them at the same rate.

[James Petragalo]

I can't keep enough shovels. That's the problem. I really can't. I can't keep enough shovels in the house, so. Yeah, he said that. But you can't do this indefinitely. Don't avoid that section. I'm definitely, you know, for a little while, till we figure it out. So since they know it's Randall Smith's fingerprints, they go to his house.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

He's not home.

[Jimmy Westman]

No.

[James Petragalo]

He shows up.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

The cops show up. Mom said he said he went to Connecticut. I don't fucking know what he's doing here. So they look around his house, which doesn't Take very long, as we know.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's quick. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

And in the basement, they discover some blood soaked jeans.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Which. That's not great. And what they say, the investigator describes in very technical terms as, quote, some stuff that belonged to the hikers. Very technical and legal and you know that's practically a trial inventory of their things. Yeah, some stuff. Thanks, Guy. Now, June 8th, 1981. So almost 10 days goes by since they discovered these bodies. They're looking for Randall everywhere. They know what he drives, they know his license plate, they know everything. They can't fucking find this guy. Can't find him. Then on 6-8-81, in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Just nowhere fucking near here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Not near Connecticut at all.

[James Petragalo]

No, no, not near Connecticut. Not near Northern Virginia in the Appalachian Trail Mountains either. So they find his pickup truck abandoned in Myrtle Beach.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

And by the way, there's a note inside. That's quite a doozy. No, it's not. Y'all could have it. It's real weird. It was found near a wooded area at Myrtle Beach. And an extensive search was made of the woods for him. Figure he can't be, you know, far behind.

[Jimmy Westman]

Too far. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So a note with some references to the murders was found in the truck. Here. They just. First, they won't release the note's contents to the press. They just say that it's disjointed, quote, unquote. Here is the note. We have the note now, though. Okay. Quote, this boy and girl have been so nice to me. You would too if it meant your neck. That's the opening line. And by the way, that doesn't make any sense.

[Jimmy Westman]

No, it doesn't.

[James Petragalo]

If you're going to kill them anyway, why would they be nice to you?

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, they don't know.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. I think they're being nice to you because they think you're a normal person who's not going to murder them. Probably. He said, all the money they gave me is almost gone. It is going to be a real shame for them when the time comes to get rid of them. He sold the parts off the truck and gave me all of his hunting and fishing guns and knifs. He spelled it wrong. No E and fishing stuff. His girlfriend gave me her car. It's bad that I have to get rid of them. His girlfriend is so pretty and nice. I will be far, far away before truck and these people are found. That's what he says.

[Jimmy Westman]

Why would he write that?

[James Petragalo]

Why would he write an internal monologue down and put it in his truck and leave it there, I have no idea. And the tenses of it are crazy too.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's very, very strange.

[James Petragalo]

He writes it at one point like he's with them, they're being nice to me. But then it's. The money he gave me is almost gone. That's a way later thing. And then he talks about it's going to be bad that I have to get rid of them. Which is then their. The tense is. Yeah, they don't even go from like, past to present to future. They go. They're like in the past and they're now. Then they're back to the past again.

[Jimmy Westman]

They didn't leave the structure?

[James Petragalo]

No, not at all.

[Jimmy Westman]

And he's selling her car somewhere.

[James Petragalo]

He got rid of her car, apparently. Because I didn't hear anything about her car being found out there either, or why she even would have a car they. They hiked from. Oh, I think she met Bob. Did the whole trail. Susan came a little later. So I don't know if she met him there with her car or I don't know what the fuck happened. That's really weird here. So the. They're looking at that. They're saying, is this a suicide note?

[Jimmy Westman]

Right.

[James Petragalo]

Is this. I'm leaving this in my car and I'm going and going off in the woods and offing myself here. So that's what they're thinking about. So they have to search for Randall. They contact Giles county dentists to try to find dental records for him. If they find some, you know, some corpse that's been completely emaciated. So the dental records are, you know, used to identify a body. So they're thinking they're probably not gonna find him alive here. And the state police assistant agent said, quote, we consider it a possibility that Randall Lee Smith may not be alive. But I'm saying that we feel confident that has occurred. I'm not saying we feel confident that's occurred. Might be dead, maybe not. So they found his dentist here. And an FBI agent contacted him to ask if he had treated Smith. And this guy said he didn't treat Smith. So then they found the guy that actually did treat Smith, but he has no records for him. Somehow, somehow just didn't save any of that stuff. Oh, yeah, I know Randall.

[Jimmy Westman]

He comes in, discount dentist.

[James Petragalo]

That's it. Yeah. He goes, I don't keep file cabinets or nothing like that. That's really.

[Jimmy Westman]

Just fix shit and send them on their way.

[James Petragalo]

Send them on their way. They come back, they'll tell me what their history is next time it's all right. So the Giles sheriff, John E. Hopkins iii, said he had no comment when asked about the request for dental records or if he thought Smith might be alive. He said, it's not particularly unusual to seek dental records in this kind of case, so don't take anything from it. June 11, 1981. He's officially charged with two murders, but he's still not in custody. But there is a charge out there. He's been charged, just not arrested yet here. So they keep searching for him, keeps going on. This is into June 12, June 13, June 14. Days pass. Now, Lawson, who is the lead investigator, he's the guy who ran his knife in between the floorboards and found the knife and all that. He said he needed a break. No, no, no. It's the opposite of that. It's not. This is personal. I will not sleep and rest until this man is found. He said, I need a vacation. He literally said, this manhunt. They found the bodies on May 30. It is June 17. And he said, I can't take it anymore. I need a break. It's not even been three weeks. And he's just like, oof.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, this pto, you gotta use it.

[James Petragalo]

Or lose it, man. Dude, imagine if he lived in a place where there was actually murders that needed to be solved all the time. Like, he would be useless, this guy. So he instead says, I'm taking my family on vacation to Myrtle Beach. That's what I'm doing here.

[Jimmy Westman]

I have no idea.

[James Petragalo]

Well, he knows the truck was found down there, but who cares?

[Jimmy Westman]

Myrtle Beach.

[James Petragalo]

That sounds great. Yeah, we're down here. Anyway, I called the wife up, told her, pack the car, bring the kids, fuck it. I'll stay here. So shortly after he arrives in South Carolina with his families, with his family, he gets a call from his bosses saying, back to work, asshole. Got do that. Why? Because we found a guy we think might be Randall Smith.

[Jimmy Westman]

Clock in.

[James Petragalo]

So come on back in here. So I'm sure he. I picture him leaving his wife and kids at some seaside motel. I don't know, guys. I don't know when I'm gonna be back.

[Jimmy Westman]

Half of the Sandcastle Deep, take the.

[James Petragalo]

Kids to the beach. Now, he was buried in the. His kids were burying him. He had to rise from the sand and fuck it all up. So while en route here, officers told Lawson that the individual being detained was claiming to have amnesia and couldn't remember his name or even how he got to Myrtle Beach. Doesn't even know that much. I don't even know how I got here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

So Lawson took a look at him and he said, it's this haggard guy, he's got insects bites all over, like big bleeding, blotchy shit. He's been living in the woods in South Carolina in the summer for weeks. And he said, it's fucking Randall Smith. As soon as he showed up, he goes, yeah, that's Randall Smith. I know this guy. It's Randall Smith. So he's arrested in a, what's called a, quote, litter strewn, wooded campsite on the outskirts of Myrtle Beach. After they found his truck, they said that, you know, the note plus all the other evidence and a bloody fingerprint. Pretty decent case here, kind of a slam dunk. Yeah, they said he'd been lurking in the campsite for about two weeks. That's not a good way to describe lurking. Yeah, this guy Lurks. He doesn't hang out, he lurks. So he's going to be charged with the two murders. Like we said, they don't know. They said, he said, I don't know who I am, where I'm from, how I got to South Carolina, nothing. And his attorney, court appointed attorney, says, I think he's telling the truth.

[Jimmy Westman]

Is that right?

[James Petragalo]

This is Philip Sasser, who is a very easily fooled man. He said, quote, if he's a faker, he's the best I've ever seen.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. I've never watched a movie before.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Now I've avoided cinema my entire life, but I don't think he's acting. So he's got a full beard and they said jeans and a blue knit shirt. And they said that his lawyer said, my client is not mentally competent to stand trial. This fucking guy doesn't even know who he is. He said, quote, I've had eight or ten conversations with him and the contents are very similar. I asked him who he was and he says, they say I'm Randall Lee Smith. I asked him where he's from and he says, they tell me I'm from Virginia. I don't know. I'm the man with no name here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah. I got Kurt Russell in the lobby trying to marry the man.

[James Petragalo]

That's it. Yeah, they got, they're gonna, they're gonna give him off to somebody there. Yeah. He's showing his picture on the news.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So Sasser, his lawyer, said that Smith, they brought his mother in and he didn't even recognize his own mother.

[Jimmy Westman]

Is that right? So clearly, I mean that's, that's, that's.

[James Petragalo]

What more he must be telling the truth, he said, I. She said, my. My boy. And he said, I don't know.

[Jimmy Westman]

I don't know that bitch.

[James Petragalo]

I don't know, man. I don't know. So anyway, he's got shit all over him, bites everywhere. And he said he knew it was Smith, though. He said that Randall was exhibiting dissociative behavior and conveying the impression he'd forgotten everything about his past. You know, something that obviously they thought once we get him into any kind of pre trial psychiatric testing, they're gonna know he's full of shit. So that's not great. They said, if anything, his response was as real as the kidnapping note he left here. So here we go. He is. This is what they do to him. They take him into an interview room, they sit him down, they go outside and they go, how are we gonna get him to fucking admit who he is?

[Jimmy Westman]

We need him to just admit it. Yeah, we need a confession.

[James Petragalo]

Somebody has an idea. They're like, all right, check this out. This is what we're gonna do. We're gonna tell him, you put a fucking white coat on you, Detective. Put like a doctor's coat on. We got a stethoscope around here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Throw that on the corner, borrow his jacket.

[James Petragalo]

We're gonna go in there, we're gonna tell him that basically his wounds and bug bites are so bad that he needs medical attention right this minute or his life is in danger. So. And by the way, this again is somehow perfectly legal to do. So they do this. They observe that he's exhibiting so much physical discomfort, scratching himself. And obviously he's had poison ivy and mosquitoes all over him and everything else. And he's got open wounds and shit. So they said other stuff is unforgiving. Oh, there's a lot of bugs down there. They said there's other scratch marks on him that they thought were probably from Susan Ramsey. Even though that was a month ago, they still think that they're deep ones probably. So they said, okay, this is what we do. He said, we told him that those bug bites were quite serious and told him if he didn't get medical attention, we don't know what could happen to him. I mean, he could be. He could die from infection. So they said he was nodding his head furiously and, you know. Yeah, yeah, I know. I get it, I get it. They said, so you want medical attention? He said, please, I love medical attention. He's scratching. They said, okay, yeah, no problem. Let's get you medical attention so you don't die. But before we get the treatment. You just need to sign this consent form real quick. You know, standard procedure here. So he goes, oh, okay. He said, do I have to? And they said, I mean, unless you don't want medical attention. Yeah. And he said, okay. And he just scribbled Randall Lee Smith like, you fucking dummy.

[Jimmy Westman]

Gotcha, dum dum.

[James Petragalo]

And then they give him calamine lot and fucking put him in handcuffs. There you go, stupid. Here's your medical attention, you fucking dummy. So, yep, he said, yeah, yeah. And that was that. And as they said, as soon as. There it was, Randall Lee Smith, the cop said, bam, we had him. That was that. So then the cop said, quote, he's a very sharp, cunning person, very precise in what he does. That's the opposite of cunning.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, to a point.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. He's. He seems like he. If you think he's a nice guy and you're in the woods, he could trick you into thinking he's a nice guy long enough to kill you while you sleep.

[Jimmy Westman]

I'd say he's elusive.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. He's not gonna. He's not coming up with any grand plan. That note. That note was supposed to throw the cops off his scent. That didn't do anything. No shit, man. So the. The attorney general here has extradition papers. And the. His lawyer here, Randall Smith's lawyer, said the papers were not enough to make a case for extradition from South Carolina. They said that the prosecutors must prove that Smith was in Giles county when the murders occurred before he can be handed over to Virginia authorities. His lawyer said, I don't believe the state of Virginia has established that Randall Lee Smith was in the state at the state of commission of the crime. What the fuck are you talking about? His bloody fingerprint.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's on the book.

[James Petragalo]

On a book that puts him there during the crime while blood was flowing.

[Jimmy Westman]

There's blood on jeans in his basement.

[James Petragalo]

There you go. And there. Blood on his hand on a fingerprint. Doesn't take a genius here. So they said when the agents from the Virginia State Police discussed what happened at the shelter and sought out details, they said he'd just say, I don't want to talk about it. That was it. He just said, I just don't want to talk about it.

[Jimmy Westman]

I don't want to talk either.

[James Petragalo]

No. So he does get extradited. He's arraigned in Virginia. And the Giles County Commonwealth Attorney's name is Hezekiah Osborne.

[Jimmy Westman]

Fuck. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

The prosecutor's name is Hezekiah. You're getting some fire and brimstone. Biblical shit. If the prosecutor's name is Hezekiah, quoting Bible verses. My God. So he said he has a good case against Randall Lee Smith, currently 27 years old. He said, quote, this is funny. They said, do you think he's a murderer? And this guy, this is the fucking county attorney said this, quote, if he ain't one, he's got a whole lot of explaining to do. If he ain't one, he's got. And then he pulled a Ricky Ricardo. Yeah, if he ain't one, he's got some explaining to do here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragalo]

That's Hezekiah, the guy in charge. Okay, if he ate the one, that's that. So he is charged with the slayings though, for sure. And they said they, they set a grand jury date and obviously there was plenty to indict him. Obviously that's nothing. So they said two counts of first degree murder. There is a strong suspicion that Laura had been sexually assaulted, possibly raped, either before or after death. They're not sure, but they couldn't prove it due to the condition of her body. So they said they would not charge him with the sexual assault.

[Jimmy Westman]

No, he did this murder thing to her. So we'll just charge him with that.

[James Petragalo]

It's logical that the only reason he's did any of what he did is for this. So that's the logical end. But physically they can't prove it. Now nowadays they'd probably be able to.

[Jimmy Westman]

Prove it oh, in a second.

[James Petragalo]

Now back then they couldn't do it. So by the way, the people in Giles county want blood from this guy because he's fucking up the trail and you know, also he's probably ruining our lives, ruining everything here. So they want a real hard sentence. He was found mentally competent to stand trial by psychiatrists at the Central State Hospital. During tests, doctors wrote court officials their evaluation saying that he's mentally competent and was mentally competent at the time of the crimes as well. So 1982 here, the trials a week away. Okay. There's questions about some sensitive evidence here, how it's been stored, and things like that come up in questions which is never good. The prosecutors and defense lawyers were given until a certain date to file all their arguments and everything like that, to find out what should be admitted and what's not admitted. The pre trial really is the trial. The pre trial and the jury instructions are really everything, certainly, because the pre trial is what evidence is going to be allowed into trial. That makes 95% of the difference in the jury instructions. You're telling them exactly what to. How to do it. So, I mean, that's a. That's a big part of it. So they said that if the judge agrees with the defense that the search of Smith's abandoned pickup truck was illegal, then the letter cannot be admitted as evidence in trial. They're saying that they found the pickup truck abandoned on a vacant lot near the ocean. A former Myrtle beach policeman named Rick Pearsall said he checked the truck a few hours after it had been reported as suspicious by another officer. The truck was hidden from view, locked, and the license tags had been removed. Oh, that's abandoned.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's an abandoned vehicle.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, that's abandoned. He said he jimmied the lock on the passenger side door so he could read the identification. Identification. The vin. He wanted to read the vin. So he jimmy that open. He said that's when he found the handwritten note from Smith. That's what they're talking about. Whether the note should be allowed in.

[Jimmy Westman]

Because he found it in a way.

[James Petragalo]

That was not a proper search.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, the word Jimmy implies negative connotation. That's the piss out of me.

[James Petragalo]

That's. Yeah, that's. Well, we've both had that our whole fucking lives. It's obnoxious because. I don't know if everybody knows this, but everyone on earth calls me Jimmy. Except for you people. You guys. That's it. Because Jimmy's Jimmy on his birth certificate, so he has no choice. So I'm like, I'll take the bullet and be James this time, because you got nothing. So you have to be Jimmy. But either way, yeah, Jimmy means a dick. A condom, a fucking breaking into something. It's never good. Jimmy is always bad. A sprinkle, apparently, from what I found.

[Jimmy Westman]

Out, evidently, on ice cream and bad engineering. It's our fault.

[James Petragalo]

It's all our fault. We did it all. So, yeah, then that sounds bad that he jimmied it open, but that the way he got it open really isn't the point of the legal battle. The legal battle is whether this truck would be considered abandoned, which means it's nobody's property. Anybody can do whatever they want with it. Or whether it is his truck that they broke into and then look for a note. So it's. That's. That's the way it is. They said that. The sources close to the investigation said it makes reference. Oh, that's the note. They said when. While police obtained a search warrant for a truck the following day, the defense claimed the seizure of the note was illegal and it should be withheld from the Jury.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

They said that one of the court appointed defense attorneys said that police had no information at the time they went into the truck of any alleged crime had been committed.

[Jimmy Westman]

Huh.

[James Petragalo]

But they did.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's why they were down here.

[James Petragalo]

They found the murder suspects truck. Which honestly makes it a little bit worse that they broke into it without getting a search warrant because they knew.

[Jimmy Westman]

What they were doing.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, they just found an abandoned truck. Didn't know they were looking for his truck. And then, you know, whatever, maybe this.

[Jimmy Westman]

Is it, some shit like that.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, but his lawyers are saying, no, they knew it was his truck because the Myrtle beach police are saying it was just reported as an abandoned vehicle. So I was trying to get the VIN number and they're saying, no, no, no, you knew whose truck it was and you were trying to break into it. So that's the fight here. Another lawyer of Randall's said, it scares me to think I could park illegally and in four hours could have my car broken into and rummaged through. Well, would you hide it and take your license plates off of it first? That's the other thing. When I park my car like, and go into the mall, I tend to leave my license plates on the car. Generally.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah. Anytime I walk away from my car, I always cross my fingers that everything's going to stay in there.

[James Petragalo]

Everything will stay in there. Yeah.

[Jimmy Westman]

Trust it.

[James Petragalo]

No, no. So they, they argued that Smith was taking chances when he left the truck unattended. He said the Commonwealth takes the position that it's an abandoned vehicle. Randall Lee Smith has no standing to object to the search. He abandoned it. In addition to the note, they say they have a wealth of circumstantial evidence. Forest rangers have testified they saw Smith with one of the victims near the shelter where the bodies were found. That's not good. His bloody fingerprints found on a book next to one of the hikers. And bloodstained clothing found in his house. Also not good, bad stuff. So, March 23, 1982. His trial is just about to start. And unless he has fucking Vincent laguardia Gambini coming down to help him, I think he's got problems here.

[Jimmy Westman]

I don't think he's beaten this one.

[James Petragalo]

And out of nowhere, surprise to everybody. The day before the trial supposed to start, he accepts a plea bargain.

[Jimmy Westman]

Fascinating.

[James Petragalo]

Actually, it's the other way around. The state accepts the plea bargain offered up by the defense. The defense is offering up plea bargains? This is right before jury selection was to begin. And he will plead guilty to two counts of second Degree murder. There we go. Now a big part of this is both the Ramsey and Mountford families had to agree to the plea bargain. The prosecutor said before they would do it. So they said that he was recommending. The prosecutor told the family that he was recommending the pleas. After discussing it with the families of both victims, they said that, you know, he was not certain he could approve first degree murder. Which I don't know how much more proof you need.

[Jimmy Westman]

The lack of confidence. Yeah, confidence. Come on, man.

[James Petragalo]

Dude, you have his bloody fingerprint. Know when you win, you know what I mean? No, when. Know when you've won and fucking accept.

[Jimmy Westman]

Went to law school, man.

[James Petragalo]

Dude, this is fucking crazy.

[Jimmy Westman]

This is what. This is what you. This is why we fucking play the game.

[James Petragalo]

This is it right here.

[Jimmy Westman]

Let's get it on.

[James Petragalo]

So yeah, they said so sentencing comes around. And by the way, they said in private discussions that the prosecutor said he wasn't thrilled with having the second degree second degree sentences. He said first degree murder would have imposed 20 year prison sentences on each charge. So you could have given him 40 years, but instead he will get you, sir, may fuck off. 30 years in prison. That is the sentence. But that is not what he's gonna do. As we'll find out. He's not doing all that. So part of this is he had no criminal record. That was part of it. Which really once you've murdered two people and possibly raped a corpse, I feel like you're a criminal. Your past is pretty irrelevant at that point.

[Jimmy Westman]

The present matters more.

[James Petragalo]

That's a little bit. And the recent past when you were murdering people, to me. So they said the consent was considered lenient. And a lot of people were pissed off about this. And the town people lost their fucking minds. But the families were okay with it. And that is what Bob Mountford Sr. Said. If the Ramsey's went along with it, we were going to go along with it. We didn't want him to get the death penalty, but we also didn't want him to ever get out.

[Jimmy Westman]

Great people.

[James Petragalo]

You can see why these Susan and Bob are so nice, you know what I mean? They come from nice backgrounds. So they said that Mountford, this is Mountford Senior said that he was struck by Randall's personal background which partly influenced his decision in accepting the deal. He went, jesus, this guy's pathetic. Basically.

[Jimmy Westman]

Really sad.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, yeah. He said he heard about his lifelong fabrications and he said, I don't want to sound like I sympathized with him. After all, he was a murderer. But he really never did have a life. And what life he did have, he made up.

[Jimmy Westman]

Dude, he fucking. He wanted to be a 36 year old divorcee. That's.

[James Petragalo]

That's what he was looking for. That's what he was looking for.

[Jimmy Westman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

So a lot of people were very pissed off, though. Police officers were very pissed off about this. They were really mad. They also disagreed with the prosecutor who told fellow lawyers he didn't want to risk a trial because he had been unable to discover a clear motive for the double homicide. Who cares?

[Jimmy Westman]

Who gives a shit?

[James Petragalo]

Wanted to kill him, rape her and rob them. There is your motive. I don't know what we're talking about here. What the fuck? So, yeah, and they said that the families have said the whole thing's been really hard and people have wanted to talk about it with them all the time and they kind of just wanted to get it over with, basically.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. Mrs. Ramsey, Susan's mom, said just getting through the emotional shock will last forever. But the prosecutor said that this agreement lays to rest any questions about the slangs. At least everybody knows who did, you know, what happened. He said, we now know who killed Susan and Bob. And that is something certainly worth something to their parents. I feel that I'm exchanging the somewhat remote possibility of a larger sentence. I don't think it's somewhat remote at all. I think he would have got first degree consecutive sentences and got fucked good. He said the possibility of a larger sentence with the certainty of a smaller sentence. There's one guy who's really pissed off about this. Yeah. Who do you think that is? Right. A random hiker. Exactly. Yeah. Warren Doyle, 32, spends his day picketing the front of the courthouse by himself. Protesting the plea bargain. Yeah. He said, no way. This is ridiculous. Yeah. They said, well, you must have been good friends with Susan. And Bobby goes, I never met them before.

[Jimmy Westman]

Never met anybody.

[James Petragalo]

Never met any of these people. He goes, but you know, he said that he believes the.

[Jimmy Westman]

Really pisses me off.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. He said the lawyers in the case should have gone ahead with a jury so the residents of Giles county instead of what he called the judicial powers could decide on the case. He said a jury trial might have answered the question of motive. Yeah. Why are you protesting a plea deal that the parents are okay with? That's the problem.

[Jimmy Westman]

There's nothing else.

[James Petragalo]

It's so weird. He walked back and forth in front of the black iron fence that surrounds the courthouse, was interrupted frequently by passersby who wanted to talk to him about the protest as he walked. He carried a red and black lettered sign that said, did Bob and Sue plea for their lives? Did Randall Smith give them a bargain? Shame on the murderer. Shame on our judicial system. One knife's the living, the other knife's the survivors. That's all on one side. God damn. He's got to understand marketing.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, you think?

[James Petragalo]

Man, a billboard can't be too wordy. You got to tell people what you're doing real quickly. Yeah. Shame on the plea deal. Or just pick a fucking. Pick a sentiment. He just stuffed it all into one here. So one person who lives three houses from Randall Smith's mother described himself as one of Randall's best friends.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh.

[James Petragalo]

Which isn't really a thing. Told Doyle they were surprised by. They were surprised Smith was guilty. He told the protester, we were surprised he's guilty.

[Jimmy Westman]

Can't believe it.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, yeah. He said, this is crazy. Warren Doyle Jr. This guy here, he's a veteran hiker. He said he'll soon finish his 11th trip of the entire Appalachian Trail. This is the protester. He said he was so offended by the plea agreement that he had to pick at the courthouse. He had no fucking choice. He said, if another incident happens with Randall Smith, perhaps the people who are responsible for the plea bargain should be put on trial. That's not how things work, but okay. He said that he's the only one who did not get life without parole. Also. And they said that everyone associated with the trail security remembers the Smith case. He said, Since 1981, there's been three murders on the trail. Each time, people would say, where's the guy from 81? Where's Randall Smith? Oh, he's in jail. Okay. I guess. Nine people murdered on the trail since 1974. Up to that point, that sounds like a lot. They said that more precautions have been taken to ensure safety, such as increasing the number of ridge runners who patrol sections of the trail and report suspicious people. Though there are seasonal ridge runners in the busy areas and that sort of thing. So you can't likely volunteers.

[Jimmy Westman]

Those are not paid positions.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, you can't police 2100 miles of woods. That's the thing. This isn't a structure with a building and there's no stoplight to run through. It's impossible. And they said Also, more than 3 million people use the trail every year. Wow. Good luck. The one guy said, I don't want to overreact to the fact that a handful of socially marginal people have killed a handful of hikers. Socially marginal? It's one Way to put murder. Okay. So in prison, he is sent to the Nottaway Correctional center in Burkeville. He's inmate number 127885, in case you're wondering. In case you want to look him up there. And there's more, though. Don't worry. Then, by the way, this is in the flat area of Virginia with no mountains. And he's very sad.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's tough stuff.

[James Petragalo]

He's very, very sad. Here. The. In 1985, when he's in jail for a couple years, a book comes out about him here. It's called Murder on the Appalachian Trail by Jess Carr. And, yeah, she. I guess she's also a Giles county native, the person who wrote it. And, yeah, the book, honestly, is a kind of a disjointed book. It's a little.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, but it's real personal to her.

[James Petragalo]

It's a little odd. Yeah, it's a little strange. So in the book, though, they reconstruct a scene in which Smith, Ramsey and Mountford drink together. Because that's. We know that happened. Mountford behind. Ramsey on the trail, caught up. Smith leaves angry because the social workers are, quote, trying to see inside my head. Trying to see inside my head. They said, Ramsey and Mountford continue drinking. They bed down for the night. Ramsey suggests that Smith wants to rape her to sense to Mountford. I'm a little worried about that. So that's what they think happened here. Putting this all together now, Hezekiah Osborne, who went to private practice after this, said that he. This is his. From all the evidence he's seen, he said they drank together. And he said, Randall, I think, made a pass at the girl. Mountford intervened and Randall left. But he returned to shoot Mountford while he was still in a sleeping bag. He said that Smith and Ramsey, according to the evidence, had a hell of a battle. He did treat her pretty bad, he said. I would fucking say so. Holy shit. They said her head injury was fucking brutal. The palms of her hands were cut to shit. It was brutal, man. So 1986 comes around. You might say, why the hell are we talking about 86? Randall's away for 30 years. Randall's up for parole.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's fast.

[James Petragalo]

That's real fast. Yeah. Bob Mountford Sr. Said, what the fuck? He said, he's not. He's not even serving for one death, let alone two. What he got was little enough to be paroled in five years would be a complete travesty of justice.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, absolutely. Miscarriage.

[James Petragalo]

Fuck. Yeah. He also said, this is something we're gonna have to live with for the rest of our lives. We won't get paroled in 10 or 15 years. We won't ever get paroled. He shouldn't be allowed to get out. Susan's father said as well. They said, for obvious reasons, I have a very negative prejudice. That was our daughter. But I would feel the same if it was someone else's daughter. I think the parole board would not be doing its duty to let a guy out who did what he did out on the streets. Especially not in five years.

[Jimmy Westman]

Truth. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Whatever energy he has, he's got to sit in there for a while and burn up that energy and be too old and be too old to go out and bother to do that. Otherwise, I don't trust this fucking guy. So they said, he's just up for parole. It doesn't mean he's getting released. One of the peoples here, this is the chairman of the parole board, said no matter how heinous the crime, if the person's eligible for parole, were supposed to look at it from the perspective that he could be released. He said, but you're not talking about people operating in a vacuum. We have families and children too, and we can be just as affected by a crime as anyone else. Yeah, we're not trying to put someone out there just to see how they will do. It's just an experiment. Then another hiker from there outside the parole board said he really hopes he doesn't get paroled. He said he scarred this area of the country permanently. Permanently. Also said that I tried to shield them. Talking about the notoriety of the trail. Said I tried to shield my kids from it. But when people would ask where they were going, their answer would always produce the same response. Oh, that's where the murders happened.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's the murder trail.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, yeah, that's the murder spot there. Now, Randall's mom, Loretta, she is trying to. She's just all alone, sitting in her little house. She said, even though I'm here and he's there, I've been treated a lot of times like someone who was in prison. Everyone from here to Washington knows who I am and knows who he was, too. She said she hasn't seen her son since he was sent to prison in 82. This is in, like, 86. But she talks to him by telephone every two weeks, and she knows he's waiting anxiously for word from the parole board. Anxiously. Does he think he's getting out right now?

[Jimmy Westman]

That's crazy.

[James Petragalo]

They said, well, where would he like to be? And she said, he would like to be where he's not penned up, I bet. No shit. I bet if you asked all the guys in prison, they'd say similar.

[Jimmy Westman]

Not jail.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, not jail. I do not know what his chances are, but I do hope he gets out. She says she does not believe her son committed the crimes.

[Jimmy Westman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragalo]

Does not believe it for a second. This. There's a certain level of delusion and reality blocking that only a parent could do. You know what I mean? Only a parent or a spouse could do.

[Jimmy Westman]

Well, that's half her DNA, so it couldn't be that. She'd have to recognize that she contributed to this.

[James Petragalo]

Yep. She said if he had ever bothered anybody, I would know about it. I would be the first one to know. Hey, Ma tried to rape this lady. She wouldn't let me, so I had to shoot her boyfriend and stab the shit out of her. But you know how it goes. Anyway, how was your evening coming out here?

[Jimmy Westman]

Boogie monster in the shit out of the woods.

[James Petragalo]

How. How was your fucking shift at the hospital? Jesus. She said that my son was framed. He's been framed. God damn.

[Jimmy Westman]

Really?

[James Petragalo]

He. She said if there was more investigation done they would have found some things that didn't come up. But they quit looking when they picked up my son. They got my son and that was it. Ma. That's what she says and I. Fingerprints. I hope she didn't say that to the parole board. So he is denied parole in 1986 here in prison. They said he never made any. Didn't really make any friends.

[Jimmy Westman]

No.

[James Petragalo]

No, didn't do anything.

[Jimmy Westman]

Continued living his life the same way.

[James Petragalo]

Just continued doing what he was doing. He said there was. Keeping him constant company were various members of the Appalachian Trail Conference who religiously filed an objection. And each year he came up for parole. So yeah, they said that he did. He underwent a lengthy educational program that was intended to increase post release employability. Basically got a GED exam and a couple other things he did. That was what he did. So he does all that. They said he also got into religion. But not. Not the religion that everyone in church, everyone in town wants him to be into. No, he got into Wicca.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, he got into Wicca here. Nice work. That's what he found. Which I mean he loves nature and loves the woods, so why not?

[Jimmy Westman]

Might as well Blair Witch it.

[James Petragalo]

What the fuck? Here so for. Yeah, there you go. That's what he's going to do now. September 27, 1996. Been in for 15 years. In custody and in jail here he is released on mandatory parole. Mandatory, mandatory, as he finished one of his whole sentences. So he will be supervised for 10 years, though.

[Jimmy Westman]

Terrific.

[James Petragalo]

He's going to be on home confinement for a while and then be on, like, supervised parole for 10 years. So that's interesting. He had two visits from his mother in 10, and the whole 15 years he was in jail. It's the only contact he had with anybody. So basically, he was weird before. He's going to be real fucking weird now.

[Jimmy Westman]

Real isolated.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, real weird. Yep. They said. And the. The cop who. The lead investigators who didn't want him out said, quote, he had never. He had been a model inmate, never caused any problems. So they let him out. And back then back to the same town. Back then, every day you did would give you a day of good time, too. So if you did 15 years, that's 15 years a good time, which means they let you out. So he returns to his home with his mom and starts doing odd jobs again. And also begins to immediately lie again, too. His friend Spaur there, the guy who he welds for, he visits Randall at his house after Randall was placed under home confinement. And he claims he still has severe amnesia, by the way. Oh, he's had severe amnesia for 15 years, apparently in prison.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's a great way to do 15 years, I guess.

[James Petragalo]

So that's the way you'd want to do 15 years. Just bash your head into the fucking wall every day you're doing it. No clue. This Spower guy said. I walked in and he said, who are you? And I said, you know who I am. He said, I don't remember nobody. I said, whatever. Whatever. Lion Randall, we fucking know. Yeah. So later on, they walked around the house and carried on their conversation. Dude said, it got just weirder and fucking weirder. Obviously. He said that if you didn't know him before, it might have seemed like he was actually crazy. He said, but I know this fucking guy. I know he's full of shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

This ain't crazy. This is Randall.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. He said at one point, Randall showed Spower a page of a word puzzle book that had words circled in pencil. The guy Spower said, quote. He then says, your name's on this right here. I said, really? And he said, yeah, the FBI knows everything about you. Perfect, he said. So we just kept that up for a while. That's what Spower said. So this is fun. Let's see. I would find this fun. Let's see how far he'll go with lying. Fuck it. He then said, that Spower's name was in a crossword puzzle as well. He said, that was in a crossword puzzle, so there's that. Then he said, quote, this is Spower. He said, I can't remember nothing about this place. None of this stuff comprehends to me. So we step out on the porch and looked up at the mountain. I said, that old antique school bus, I didn't know that was up there. He said, yeah, that's something that's been up there since I was a kid. He said, I knew right then he was lying to me.

[Jimmy Westman]

Bullshit.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, that's what he does. It's the same as. You need to sign this. Oh, no problem. He also noted that while Smith lied practically about everything in his life, from his wealth to his education, there was one theme that he was always lying about, and that was the women that he had. And he would continue that because if you thought he was a desirable piece of ass before, now he's a double murderer who's been in prison. Now all the ladies want to fight.

[Jimmy Westman]

He's a bad boy.

[James Petragalo]

People are jumping out of planes, these flight attendants to try to get in his pants. Now forget it. So this guy said the women he had, he would talk about his girlfriends. He'd have one living in Bland, he'd have one living in Blacksburg. They seemed to be everywhere, certainly popping up. He said, we rode over there one day before Christmas because Mama wanted some purple candles from roses. He rode over to Blacksburg with me. He said, my little woman works over at that place. So I said, really? That's right where we're going. Perfect, Perfect. So I pull in. I go inside. He just sat outside in the truck and never mentioned that story again. That was it. It's so funny. He just shut the fuck up when caught. When caught, he's like, oh, shit. Damn it. He said we'd be here on Friday. Thinking of somewhere we might go, maybe have a nice cold one, get a bunch of guys together, maybe watch the Home Run Championship or something. But he had no desire to head off at 5 after hours for a drink with the boys or to chill out. He'd say, I've got a little lady and I've got to go meet her at 6 or 7 o'clock tonight, pick her up and take the kids out tonight.

[Jimmy Westman]

Can't keep them waiting.

[James Petragalo]

Can't keep them waiting yet. So it is those kids, boy, they get real ornery when they're hungry. You know what I mean? They're on that shit. He said, I'd say all right. So he'd go home to Ingram village and we drive by real slow and there was his red truck sitting right there in the driveway all by itself.

[Jimmy Westman]

Doing nothing.

[James Petragalo]

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[Jimmy Westman]

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[James Petragalo]

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[James Petragalo]

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[Jimmy Westman]

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[James Petragalo]

Year 2000 Randall's mom Loretta dies.

[Jimmy Westman]

Fuck.

[James Petragalo]

Loretta is the last piece of tether holding him to anywhere near sanity or a normal life or society. Once she dies, he just becomes a complete fucking Ted Kaczynski recluse weirdo at this point. So real fucking weird. The first thing he did was take all the pictures off the walls. Oh, like the day his mom died, he took everything down off the wall. Everything. Even if it's like a, you know, a painting of a mountain down. Just clean walls. Well, you Got to have room for your hustler laminates as well. The second thing he did here was run out of money because he doesn't really have any money anyway.

[Jimmy Westman]

Nothing coming in.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, and it would get worse every month. Later on, all his utilities will be shut off. It's not good. September 2006. He's been on parole for 10 years. He's off parole. He is a free man.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Off supervised parole. And he wants some property. He has no money. Okay. His electricity is getting turned on and off. I don't know where he thinks he's going to have money for property, but there's a guy or a couple named Robin and Jason Stephen. They own 98 acres of wooded mountainside between Smith's house and the Appalachian Trail. So that's what he has to cut through their property to get to the trail. What he wants is a piece of that property that would allow him to go to the trail. Sell me a trail through your trail. Basically. He said that shortly after he was released from prison, this couple said that he just rolled up to them as a neighbor and said, you may hear some things about me that aren't true, that I killed some people.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's not a good way to say.

[James Petragalo]

Nice to meet you, neighbor. Can I get you a beer? Like, holy shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

And he said. And then they heard, too. They had heard about him. Everyone said, oh, you meet Lion Randall yet? They're like, lion Randall? Who the fuck is that? You know, the murderer that lives three doors down? Wait, there's a murderer named Lion Randall that lives three. Okay, okay. Well, great job buying this. Excellent. Thanks. Real estate agent. So this guy Randall then told Jason that he doesn't hike in the trail anymore or do any of that. He said, I'm getting too old for that sort of shit. Can't be doing that to go all the way around. So I want to be able to just walk right over there to it to hang out. And yeah, he said Smith wanted permission to walk the property in search of arrowheads to get to the trail also. And he wanted to buy a small parcel at the top of their land so he could put an old trailer next to the trail and live there. That's what you want, a fucking recluse, lying weirdo living on your land in a trailer that murdered people. Who's a murderer also? But even if he wasn't a murderer, I wouldn't want that. So he would show up all the time to ask this guy to sell it to him, and the guy would say, sorry, I Don't want to sell any of my land. Not doing that. Yeah. Jason's wife, who was a real estate agent, so she could have made the sale, she's aware, said she never felt comfortable about around Randall at all. And said that Randall always seemed to ignore her. Like in a weird way, like she wasn't there. Like she didn't exist between men. Once he told. He told Randall told the husband that he could see her coming a mile away, that jet black hair. So that made him uncomfortable. Like, you, you've been looking at my wife. You just haven't been acting like you are. Which is even creepier. He said when they did talk, Smith would repeatedly ask her if she wanted to sell the parcel of land. And she would say no. And he'd go, all right. Yeah. The Stevens ended up selling the entire parcel to someone else.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, fuck.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, shit. They sold them. So Smith approached the wife, or Smith. Yeah, approached the wife and said, will you list my house? He said, I want to move in a few months. He said he had things he needed to do is what Smith said. Everybody's named Smith in this town, by the way. The real estate agent, wife, neighbors named Robin Smith. So he said he had things he wanted to do. He also told her he'd been in the hospital and wanted to settle down and that his days of walking on the mountains were over. And they didn't know. They were like, I don't know, what the fuck, but either way, we're not selling this shit to you. So February 2008, not long after, she told Randall that she was not going to list his house as well here. He said that, you know, he needed to move. One afternoon in the month of February here, this is one of the neighbors said they were at home when they saw a very weird sight from their kitchen window. Okay, Randall Smith was making trip after trip from his cellar, which he accessed by an exterior door, one of those, you know, double open doors there. They said he was carrying what they called an astonishing amount of bright yellow plastic grocery style bags filled with something into the house from the basement.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay. They said his in and up.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, yeah. They said his actions were common, methodical. They said in some ways it was like he was collecting the ingredients to make like a cake or some shit. Like, I got it. Like I went grocery shopping. But probably not. They didn't get it. Then they figured out later that they as he may be assembling things for a lengthy trip like canned goods. Because a lot of it they figured out was canned goods. Like maybe he's going out camping or something like that. April 28, 2008, Randall's Public Water is cut off. That was his last utility that he had working was water.

[Jimmy Westman]

Gross.

[James Petragalo]

So now he's got no. We can't even shit in his house.

[Jimmy Westman]

Nothing goes away. Everything sticks.

[James Petragalo]

Nothing goes away. You, you're. You're. You're keeping all of it?

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

You're keeping dinner last night from last night. So the house is dark and quiet during this period. Neighbors notice that he's not around. So they said, that's weird. Then, you know, six weeks go by, they haven't seen Randall. There is a shitload of mail piled outside the house. I mean, also like weeks worth of mail out there. So they're like, yeah, that's really weird. So on April 30, a missing persons report was filed about Randall. They said concerns about his welfare and mental state and might. What he might be doing out there. Maybe he's an older guy too at this point. Maybe he got sick in the woods. Maybe he fell and hurt himself.

[Jimmy Westman]

Possible. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

You never know. So they didn't know. And the cops, they didn't. They weren't really looking for him like that because he's off parole, so he's like anybody else. So he is missing. They put up a big picture of him missing, looking for him. Missing hiker. So they said that one person here who's with the sheriff said, apparently during this time we never had the first problem out of him since he got out of jail. They said no other crimes. Never failed to signal a right turn. He was as invisible as invisible can be.

[Jimmy Westman]

Kept it all together.

[James Petragalo]

Kept it together, kept it tight. He lived up there in that little house and pretty much kept to himself. I heard that some dumbass went up there and tried to get him to autograph the book that Jess Carr wrote. And Smith didn't want to sign it, but that's about it. So he's basically invisible until 2008. Some dumbass to go knock on a murderer's door and ask them to sign the book about the murder that he didn't even write is crazy. That is fucking crazy. You're an idiot. So they said. So we went up to the house and broke in and his house looked just as if he was there right now. Everything was there in place. It looked like he just walked out, he said. We started checking it and it seemed like his water and stuff had been shut off sometime before for non payment. We talked to some of the other people and they said he liked to go up on the cliffs right above the house that were right near the Appalachian Trail. They said he liked to go up there and sit and just watch the world go by. Buy. So like, okay, that's a place to look, I suppose. But, you know, they said, why not? And check it out, they said. In the house, though, they said they were doing nothing crazy. They were just dusting for fingerprints, like, kind of doing like a burglary scene thing just to see what they could find. They checked his mailbox. They found that his mail had not been picked up since March 3rd. Quite a while. Two months almost. They said that's about when he left his home. But they don't know. Maybe there were signs that he had run out of money, packed a few things, removed his pornographic material. He took that with him. He took his porn with him, they said. Yeah, looked like he just walked out. It was real weird, they said. So they were worried about. So we're thinking, okay, he's gone up there on the trail and he broke a leg or had a heart attack or something. So we had a big search and never found any trace of him. So they put up all these posters. If you see this guy, let us know everything, they said. We figured at that point that he probably died in the woods and that some hunter would probably find him in.

[Jimmy Westman]

The fall, figure it out later.

[James Petragalo]

That's it. Literally. Someone's gonna trip over his bones in a couple months. Don't worry about it.

[Jimmy Westman]

We'll be alerted to his corpse soon.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, we'll find a skeleton and we'll do it from there. They said as the kind of. As more time passes and everything, the chances that he's alive are less and less. Probably that. So. May 8, 2008. This is @ Dismal Creek in this area, by the way. It's beautiful. Dismal Creek.

[Jimmy Westman]

Fantastic.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, it's a. It's a trick.

[Jimmy Westman]

Strategically named.

[James Petragalo]

It's a trick. Yeah. But it does say right under the sign, no alcoholic beverages allowed, which is also a trick because everyone's got booze in this fucking trail. The number one thing people have is fucking nuts and booze. That's what they got. So now we'll talk about Sean farmer, who is 33 years old. Sean is a big fucking guy. 64350.

[Jimmy Westman]

God damn.

[James Petragalo]

Big old dude. Just a big giant honkin son bitch. Here now he's with his buddy, longtime best friend, Scott Johnston, who's 37. They're both from Virginia also, and they're going up camping in the Walnut Flats area of the Dismal Creek section of the Jefferson National Forest. They're going trout fishing.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Good trout up here, babe. That's good stuff. Scott Johnston said, I love coming up here. It's easy to get on the trail here. It's a good place to meet other hikers. So they were on the trail near the trail on Brushy Mountain, miles away from civilization, and they were going for a creek that apparently was just. Just jumping with rainbow trout. Just more than you could reach in with your bare hands and scoop them out. So he said they asked him, this is actually Chris Hansen asking him later on how was the fishing that day? And he said, actually, awesome. I hammered them, laughing, hammered back some fish. They said, how many did you get? And he said, six. So he said, six nice ones. Six nice trout. That's a damn good day. Now, Sean and Scott, out here fishing, said they had a weird feeling that someone was watching them all day, which in the hills of Virginia, you should probably always feel anyway, in the hills of anywhere.

[Jimmy Westman]

Feel that way.

[James Petragalo]

Feel that way. Yeah. Just assume there's someone watching. So he said they didn't know it, though, but just weird. He said also that the local sheriff, some hikers had reported to the local sheriff that they had seen some odd shit on the trail. Strange symbols and threatening signs painted on rocks and trees. The sheriff said there were skulls and crossbones painted on rocks. You know, enter at your own risk. Which is. Hadn't been there before. None of that shit. Yeah, it's all new. So Scott Johnston said, I had fished all morning, and I was coming back up the mountain, and there was this dog in the road when I. When I stopped, I got out of my truck, you know, someone walked up out of the creek bank. So we talked a little while, talked about fishing and stuff. And he told me, he says, oh, you know, there's no fish in this creek. And he said. So Chris Hansen asked this guy, no fish? And the guy, Scott Johnson, said, yeah, that's what he said. So I opened up the cooler and pulled out a bag of trout. And I said, here, you can have these.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, I took them all. I'm sorry.

[James Petragalo]

I got a bunch. And so they said, did he strike you in any way as weird? And Scott said, no, he just looked like a camper, a normal camper, looked tired. He looked like he was hungry for fish. So that evening, as Sean, the big guy, was setting up his tent near Dismal Creek, that's the same guy comes by again. Okay. And Sean Farmer, the Big guy said that, said he just, you know, walked up and I, you know, I said, how you doing? Type of thing. And he spoke to Scott and they were fishing together. Sean and Scott say an unwritten rule, the trails to offer aid and friendship to fellow hikers and fishermen.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's what it is.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, it's part of it. Yeah. It's like it's the last bastion of hippieism, you know what I mean? When you're out there, help people. And they did just that. So they were trying to help him. And Scott said, you know, he'd been coming up here since his early childhood with his dad and everything. So they sit down and they talk to this guy. And this guy, this haggard, fucking haggard camper said that he was an engineering graduate from Virginia Tech.

[Jimmy Westman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

But they were like, no, he's not. They didn't. They looked at each other like, yeah, right. They took pity on him, basically. They said Scott and Sean, they were like, this fucking guy, he's wandering around the woods. Fucking expl. Wandering around the woods, puffing up his credentials like he's on a job interview, fluffing his resume. Yeah. So they sat around, they talked with him, they ate food together there. And that's how that went. Now the weird part is that they were before this too, before the campsite, because he met him in the road, gave him some fish, and then later on ran into him and he had asked Scott if he was going to set up a camp nearby. And Scott said, yes, my friend's come in and pointed in the direction of the campsite. This man told Scott that his own camp happened to be in the same direction, about a mile or so beyond where you're pointing. He said, so maybe I'll stop by later on my way to my campsite. And they said, yeah, sure, why not? And that's how it goes here. By the way, this guy that they run into is carrying a.22 pistol the whole time. Pistol, pistol. So that's when, like we said, Sean arrives later on. They're setting up their tent. They start cooking about 4:00. And that's when, by the way, Johnston at the time was working as a chef. So he built a campfire, cleaned and cooked the trout, which if you got, that's pretty good, probably good food. You're getting good trout there. That's when Smith rolled up when the fire was going and they invited to join them for dinner. And Farmer said, we talked to him for about three, three and a half hours. God dang. Imagine talking to a Stranger in the woods for three and a half hours. That's a fucking nightmare.

[Jimmy Westman]

They didn't even learn. You teach a man to fish, they're.

[James Petragalo]

Just giving him fish all day, giving him more fish. It's the same day. Yeah, maybe tomorrow teach him. I'm not sure. So this guy Farmer said. I never got the feeling that any of this was out of the ordinary. He was pretty charismatic. He didn't talk like he was lying. Anything we talked about, he seemed to know something about. He told them, by the way. Not only did he attended Virginia Tech as an engineering student, he wrote papers for NASA. Sure, sure thing. Now he's emaciated, needing fucking donations of trout in the woods. Neither guy believed the stories. They all thought he was bullshit. They said this is Johnson. My intuition was the guy was an alcoholic who'd been kicked out of his home.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hilarious.

[James Petragalo]

Probably closer to the truth. Yep. So Farmer said the only thing that was unusual was how long this guy stayed with them. He said he told us where his camp was and I knew it was about an hour walk away. That wouldn't, that wouldn't have been a problem for Scott and me to walk through the woods in the dark to get there. But I thought most people would have a problem getting there in the dark. I don't even think I realized it at the time that you know, where the fuck is this guy going to go?

[Jimmy Westman]

On foot?

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, yeah. Where is he going to go now he. This stranger tells the Sean and Scott that his name is Ricky Williams. Yes, the running back. Why not? Yeah, I'm Ricky Williams. You know, my dreads get in the way of getting of my helmet sometimes. Yeah, like to smoke weed. Obviously this is Randall Smith. Clearly. Now at about 8:30pm Old Ricky Williams gets up to leave. He goes well, that's about all I. Thanks for the trout. You fellas have been a hell of a. Really appreciate your hospitality but I'm gonna be getting on out of here. So they go, well, great to meet you. You got you. Be careful going through the woods. It's at that point that you know this. It's Randall Smith. He walks behind Sean Farmer, the big guy and like he's going to leave and instead pulls out his.22 caliber pistol and fires two shots into Sean's head and back. Pow, pow, quick, quick, right. So Smith turned and from about 10ft away aimed his pistol at Johnson or Johnston and fired two rounds into Johnston's neck and face. Fuck yeah. This is fucking crazy. Johnston and we'll get into more detail, ran into A clump of trees near the camp. And Smith turned back, possibly to shoot Farmer, but Farmer had already taken off running.

[Jimmy Westman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragalo]

Both these guys have two bullets in them, and they're both. They're pretty moving around. So, yeah, they. Later on in the spot, they said that it was right there. They had all these. They had some dinner, some conversation. Scott said, we were sitting around the campfire talking about sports and fishing. Sean said, and then it was dark by that time, and he walked over to get his dog right in front of Scott's tent and, you know, patted his leg. Like, I could hear him say, come on, boy, we need to get back to camp. It seemed to be quiet and just an easy way. And he said. Scott said, in the next thing you know, I mean, I just hear pow, pow. And I see his arm stuck out towards Sean. Sean said, I just had this ringing in my head where he shot me right in the side of the face. You know, I. I hear that boom. I couldn't hear any other gunshots because inside of my head was like, wow.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Five A's. Just as loud as you could possibly imagine. It rings in your head, unbelievably. And my mouth was swollen immediately, so I really couldn't speak after that. And then my vision in my right side went bad.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petragalo]

Now. Sean said. And I stood up, staggered back, and all I could see were, you know, shots of what looked like fire, which were bullets discharging towards Scott. He said, now it was all about survival. So Scott. Scott, who's also shot, says, and I jumped up and I took off and I started running this direction, ducking down. And he's pointing. Scott says, and I guess he turned and shot me in the back at that time. And then I run up and I get down behind this clump of trees to protect myself. Still moving, still moving. Yeah. Shot in the back. Scott says. And then I realized that I was shot in the neck. I could actually see the blood, like, squirting like a foot every time my heart would beat. He had an artery. Yeah, he hit the main vein there. Not good. He said. You know, he said. I mean, it was just pulsing out of me. Well, I felt around my neck, and I was like, oh, you know, And I felt the bullet hole. And I just stuck my finger in the bullet hole to plug the wound.

[Jimmy Westman]

God.

[James Petragalo]

To keep the blood from, you know, squirting out. Oh, my God, that is horrifying.

[Jimmy Westman]

God, he's the toughest man alive.

[James Petragalo]

That's. Wait till you hear Sean, too. Sean remembers the scene Unfolding as if it was slow motion. He said, the shooter turned back toward him and gets ready to fire again. And Chris Hansen asked, what was the look in his eyes? And Sean said, just a blank look, like. It's almost like he was looking past me, you know, crazy, crazy, you know, a murderer in the woods for no reason. So Sean's a fucking enormous guy, like we said. Sean said, I'm going to rush him. Fuck it. I got a better chance if I bum rush him. So Sean rushes him. And Sean said, once I saw that happening, I just went toward him. And they said, Chris Sahansen said, and what was your intent? He said, just to stop him from shooting us, just to get to him. So now he said he's face to face with the gunman here and he's struggling with him. And he said he charged the shooter. And Sean said, he turned back toward me, shot me in the chest. So that'll end that. So many shots that'll end trying to get after him. Sean said, at that point, nothing happened. There was no more bullets, no more fire. So it was just, you know, staring each other down briefly. Now, it had to be scary for Randall at that point. You shoot a guy who's six fucking four, three fifty, and he doesn't go down and he's staring at you, you're in deep shit. Yeah, you're in deep shit. So he somehow absorbed a fucking. And it was like three feet away. Point blank gunshot wound to the chest. At that point, Sean turns and runs for his Jeep. Somehow is able to turn and run. He gets in, by the way, Randall's chasing him, fucking with his gun, trying to fix it, whatever. Trying to line him up. Sean said, at that time, I just put my hand up, just hoping to. If he was going to shoot me, shoot me through the hand, you know, to block it a little bit, hopefully.

[Jimmy Westman]

Slow it down.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, slow it down. Ricochet off one of my bones, something. So I start the car, and once the car started, he went past me and was from behind. So when I started the car, I ducked down in the passenger seat and just drove away. Now, meanwhile, Scott is hiding in a clump of trees in the woods. Remember that?

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So Scott Johnston's taking refuge in the wood. He'd been shot in the back and neck. All he remembers thinking is that he could bleed to death right in the woods.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, he's got the Vegas fountain in his neck.

[James Petragalo]

Fuck. Yeah. He said. He said, I mean, the blood was just squirting out of my neck. I mean, it was Every time, my heartbeat, it was just boom, boom. And I assume in that case, your heart would be beating pretty fucking hard and fast. And I. And like I say, I mean, I just stuck my finger in, you know, probably a quarter. A quarter inch down inside the wound. Holy. He put it in like he's trying to hear on the phone. Put it in his ear. Oh, my God. Imagine putting that in your neck. Fuck. So Chris Hansen. Hansen said, and you knew you had to get that wound plugged. And he said, yeah, I knew that. And he said, otherwise I would have died right there. And so Sean tears out of the campsite. He then Sean said he realized Scott was still back in the woods somewhere, right. Wounded and bleeding. Now, Scott Shaw saw Sean make a run for it. And at that point, Scott described it thusly. Quote, I took off and made it down through the woods. I was going to go down to the road, and I met Sean down at the road with his truck. He said, I saw his headlights coming down and stops, and I jump in and I just scream, go, go, go. We're both shot and we got to get out of here. And, I mean, he just punched it, sure. So Sean says, I was just lucky that my car was aimed heading out of camp and the keys were in the ignition, because it's bad enough to try to drive with not having vision in one of your eyes, but to do it in reverse through the dark in the woods while you're injured with only your red tail light glow to guide you would be fucking horrific. So. Holy shit. So now that is wild. They said that they saw. Wow. Farmer said he saw him in the rear view mirror. He saw Randall Smith at that point come up next to them and raise the gun again, and they're both in the truck, and he pulls the trigger, but the gun didn't fire.

[Jimmy Westman]

Suck it. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So they said they had ran out of ammunition, it looked like. And as he began reloading, that's when they took off.

[Jimmy Westman]

Go. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Now as they're going here. Fucking yeah, it's wild. They said they're flying down the road, the ride from their camp. There's no houses for about five miles from here, too. So there's some time then at this point, Farmer's tongue, Shawn, the driver, is so swollen because the bullet entered through the back of his head and remained in his sinus cavity, by the way. It'll never come out of his sinus cavity. And blood is squirting like a fucking. Like Bugs Bunny just got shot a bunch and drank something out of Scott Johnston's neck. Neither one of them could drive independently. They're both drifting in and out of consciousness. This is insane what's happening right now. This is almost like the guy riding off on the four wheeler in Utah. Bleeding blood on the icicles it's called.

[Jimmy Westman]

But he's trying to get away, so.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, well, so is this guy. Same thing because that was a father trying to save his kids. It's the same deal on the snowmobile. So neither one of them could drive. They're both drifting in and out of consciousness. They said they couldn't really even remember much about the drive here. Farmer said as soon as we pulled away, we both ducked down in the seat because we thought he was going to shoot again. My throat and my tongue were so swollen I couldn't talk to Scott. And I remember I was feeling around for an exit wound but I couldn't find anything. I started spitting to see if I was spitting up blood. When I didn't see any blood, I knew I was going to be okay. Wow. What it is, I wouldn't have thought that.

[Jimmy Westman]

I didn't know that.

[James Petragalo]

I would have said I must be out of blood is what I would think. Must have ran out of blood.

[Jimmy Westman]

Next few minutes are precarious.

[James Petragalo]

It's not going to go well. But then at this point now they still have to drive five miles, drifting in and out of consciousness and bleeding to death. So Sean said I knew I was running off the road like he couldn't keep it together. And he said, but I could feel Scott's hand on my steering wheel keeping us on the road. One hand with a finger in his neck hole, the other hand steering the car. Farmer said, I blacked out and my vision was blurred out of my left eye. I couldn't hear out of my left ear either. It was like a ringing you have with a bad case of swimmers ear. He said my vision kicked that back in at the hospital, but I don't remember much about the ride, going to someone's house. So he does remember seeing the blood spurt out of Johnston's neck. And he said he wanted to talk to him but he couldn't because his jaw and his tongue were fucked up. Yeah. He said, quote, I've always been an outdoorsman. The thing that saved us was that Scott and I know each other so well and that we know that the other one was going to do without thinking about it. They're flying down the road, one is passing out while the other one will grab the wheel. Then Scott would start to pass Out. And Sean would grab the fucking wheel again and take over. This is crazy. Scott Johnston said, we went down that dirt road doing like 40 miles an hour, 50 miles an hour on the road that you can normally do 20. Fuck. He said, and I can look. He said, I can look over and I can see he shot in the face. And I. I'm worried like, you know, he shot in the brain or something. You know, it's dark. I mean, we're both shot, we're both bleeding. I mean, we're both in a panic. There's. There's a small bridge that you have to cross the creek. We cross that and then the road veers left. Well, when we veer left, the next thing I know, the Jeep just runs on the side of an embankment.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, God.

[James Petragalo]

Fuck. And, I mean, the rocks are flying and there's trees, and I'm screaming, sean, Sean. And we, we come down off that embankment and we stop. He's shot in the face. And I was sitting there thinking, well, you know, he can't see, he's blacking out. I said, let me steer. And I said, you just listen to me and I'll tell you when to work the pedals.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hilarious.

[James Petragalo]

Holy shit.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's unbelievable.

[James Petragalo]

I'll steer. Gas, brake more. That's fucking crazy. But I mean, all of a sudden we just take off again. And, I mean, we're flying down the road and the road curves in S turns and, you know, turns, and, I mean, I'm steering from the passenger side. I'm holding my finger on the bullet hole. They're trying to keep myself from bleeding to death, he said. And we drove about two or three miles. Holy shit. Wow.

[Jimmy Westman]

I'm gonna be.

[James Petragalo]

Fuck. And it comes to a really sharp curve in the road, and the next thing I know, we hit it too fast. And I'm telling him, I'm like, slow down, slow down. And we just skid sideways in the road around that curve. And the wheels probably come within a foot of going over, like a 20 to 30 foot embankment. They almost flew off a cliff now. And we skid to a stop right there, totally sideways in the road. And then I'm like, you know, go, go, go. And I whip it back around and we take off. This is crazy. So it's zigzagging, careening, out of control. He said, I'm screaming, stop, stop. When I want him to slow down. And, you know, I'm trying to steer. He said that he took his finger out of his neck, blood squirted everywhere. He had to Stick it back in. Because he thought, maybe I don't need it now. So, yeah, this is crazy. He said, sean, we've been shot. We're going to die if we don't get help. You can't go off the road, dude. We got to fucking do this shit. So anyway, they come to a house here. The first house they come to, they pull in, it's under construction. No one's here. Fuck. They get back. Second house they go, it's dark. Okay, fuck it. We don't care. We're banging on the door. People live here. There's cars in the driveway. They're banging, banging, banging, screaming, Call 911. Me and my friend have been shot. Call 911. Call 911.

[Jimmy Westman]

Good answer.

[James Petragalo]

Good. Good thing to do there. Yeah, don't make them think that you're there to sell fucking Avon or something. Make sure they know what you're there for. So this is an Amway, I swear. So Farmer is still in the truck. Well, it's Johnston who runs up there. He's got a lot of energy. Melissa Miller is the homeowner. She opens the door. She said she thought it might have been a home invasion at first. That's why she didn't come out at first. But they kept screaming, Call 911. Call 911. And she could see blood already. Yeah, yeah. So she said. I said, oh, my God. Her and her son Randy went out on the porch, and they. Mom told Randy to go get some towels. They got some. Some towels. They called 911. The ambulance is coming from Bland, which is 20 miles away.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, they better hurry.

[James Petragalo]

Holy shit. Randy. The kid said, I was just shocked to think that two people might die right there in front of my eyes on my front yard. So Melissa thought maybe these two strangers, at first she thought they got in a fight and shot each other. She thought they got in a fight with each other, shot each other, and then were like, oh, shit, we're both going to die, so let's help each other. But when he. But when Randy the kid gets back. Randy's 20, by the way. The kid here, he recognized Farmer. He knew him. So I know this fucking guy. Farmer had dated a friend of his that he knew, like a work friend. So he said, I know this fucking guy. Yeah. They sat on the porch. They were applying wet towels. They were listening for the ambulance. And she said. I called them again, and I said, where y'all at?

[Jimmy Westman]

Hurry up. I'm out of towels.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, I've done ran out of towels. And My bounty supply is dwindling. So he said blood had soaked the towels. Randy went to get more. Wow, that's fucking crazy. By the way, the run up to this is from Scott's side, because that was Melissa's side of what she saw. Scott said, we make it down to the bottom of the mountain, and we just got down to where there was three or four houses. And for some reason, you know, we passed the first or second house, and I just says. I said, stop here. I said, these people are going to.

[Jimmy Westman]

Help us whether they like it or not.

[James Petragalo]

Whether they like it or not. I jump out and I run up to the house and I bang on the door and I say, call 911. Call 911. I said, me and my friend have been shot. And they come to the door and they see me soaked in blood. I mean, from head to toe. Meanwhile, Sean got out of the car and tried to stagger to the house. Sean said, I was, I guess, so drained because when I got out of the car, I almost. I almost just fell down. I was just out of it. And Melissa Miller thought. I thought. I thought it was one of my friends, my son's friends, playing a joke, being real funny, being hilarious, until I actually went to the door and seen him holding his neck and blood was running down. And I said, oh, my goodness, this isn't a joke. So the cops get a crazy call because obviously once the ambulance comes, they're gonna get police involved. There's a lot of gunshot wounds here. So this cop. This is a wild fucking quote from Scott. This is. He said, quote. So whatever night it was, I got a call. I got a call dispatch, and they said, I'd better come out because Randall Smith had shot two more people.

[Jimmy Westman]

Incredibly cavalier.

[James Petragalo]

And I was like, yeah, right. Yeah, that's a lot of joke playing going on over there. Dispatch for fucking murder suspects. But they were serious, so I had to go out there. Yeah, you do, stupid. I had to go out there. Yeah, dummy. So I guess that one of the local people said Mr. Smith was known to loaf around the hikers a lot. So they were kind of looking around to see if he was hanging out with other hikers. Then John Beckham of Atlanta said some hikers were sleeping off the trail, avoiding shelters, because it was. Because that's where the murders happened. So even 20 years later, they knew it. 25 years later, they said that they saw a sheet of loose leaf paper with a skull and crossbones and the words, you've been warned drawn on it. Stay out and his father saw the same image and words on a rock. So that's what we've been seeing. Yeah, that's a lot. A hiker named Danny Reed said he heard the gunshots that night. When he later heard that the shooter may have been Randall Smith, he said he couldn't believe it. He said, quote, I was like, you gotta be kidding me. That guy's back again. Yeah. Stupid, he is. So Randall makes his escape in Scott Johnston's pickup truck.

[Jimmy Westman]

May as well take it.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, it's a Ford Ranger pickup truck. It's in the woods with the keys in it. So Randall takes that. That's that. Now, the following day, this is the day after the shootings here, they. There's a guy named Moondog. That's what everyone calls him. On the trail. He goes and talks to the cop that's looking for Randall Smith in the woods. And this cop said, Moondog told us he'd been camping the night of all this over in a thicket, and he heard the truck coming by and stopped near the end of an old fire road. He said he knew it was a Ford Ranger pickup because he had one, and he knew what the tail lights looked like, and he recognized the door chime, the bong, bong, bong. When the door was open, he knew it was a ranger. He said that he saw someone get out and start walking around this old fire road with a flashlight. He could tell he was looking around for something. He was rooting through the leaves and stuff, and the guy was cussing. He said, this Moondog hollers out, hey. And a couple more cuss words come out. And then the guy with the flashlight jumps in his truck and takes off. So the cop said. So we went with Moondog back to his campsite. That's a weird thing to say. Yeah, we went. We went with Moondog back to his thicket and shared a breakfast of. Groundhog is what the next line is probably going to be there. And you could tell that he'd. That he'd been there. A couple of us walked down the road and he said, stop right there. That's where he was. Look around. Sure enough, right in this brush pile, we found stuff that belonged to Randall Smith. There it is. They said it was an astonishing amount of items. A lot of. Some of it weird, some of it strange, some of it just puzzling. You will find out exactly how weird this guy is.

[Jimmy Westman]

Creepy.

[James Petragalo]

We definitely know it's his, though.

[Jimmy Westman]

Okay.

[James Petragalo]

For sure, they said. We were sure it belonged to Smith because it had things in it. Like his GED certificate he got when it's in prison.

[Jimmy Westman]

Never get rid of that.

[James Petragalo]

And if that's not enough, it had his birth certificate in there as well. So it's definitely Randall Smith. He said a couple other things, including a little tape recorder that had a tape of some kind of ritual. Oh, you could hear people moaning and screaming. It sounded like a witchcraft kind of thing. The official investigation narrative referred to the audio cassettes contents as, quote, some kind of satanic ritual.

[Jimmy Westman]

Right.

[James Petragalo]

Okay, this is fucking hilarious. They agreed that the the cassette featured a man's voice chanting and women's voices moaning in the background, augmented by music apparently generated by a theremin. So there we go. That creepy old music. There was also some kind of handwritten, what they called occult material found along along with the items. This is what Skidmore said. Quote, we found written incantations that I believe were from the Wiccan religion. All hail guardians of the watchtower and so forth. This is the exact thing. Hail to the guardians of the watchtowers of the east. Powers of air and invention. Hear me. Hail to the guardians of the watchtower of the south. Powers of fire and feelings. Hear me. Hail to the guardians of the watchtowers of the west. Powers of water and intuition. Spelled I N T o wishen like upon a star. Intuition tremendous. Hear me. Hail to the guardians of the watchtowers of the north. By the powers of the Mother and earth. Hear me.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hear me roar.

[James Petragalo]

Hear me roar. Aid me in this magical working on this maze. Eve, Garden of the bitter sea. Show me your glory. Show me your power. I pray thee. I pray thee. I invoke thee, O sacred one. O sacred one. Hear my calls. Ancient wise one. Teach me thy ways. Lend me thy powers. Show me thy glory. I invoke thee. I invoke thee, O ancient one. It's from the craft.

[Jimmy Westman]

Of course it is.

[James Petragalo]

It's from the movie the Craft, 1996, with Firuza Balk and a bunch of other women. Yeah, it's the Craft. It's a witchcraft movie from the 90s. A teen witchcraft movie from the 90s that this 60 year old fucking weirdo puts a goddamn tape recorder up to and audio records shit off of it. Okay? Other handwritten incantations, as they call it, which is fucking hilarious, is. Well, we'll talk about this. The handwritten version found among Smith's belongings is almost word for word identical incantation uttered by actors Faruza Balk, Rachel True, Neve Campbell and Robin Tunney during this stormy scene on the beach, which significantly advances the plot.

[Jimmy Westman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragalo]

They said it's not a perfect match. There's some places this Smith text diverges from the movie script. But it's enough to that's he was getting what he could remember. Intuition. The other handwritten incantation. Now. Incantation. Now is the time, now is the hour. Ours is the magic, Ours is the power which is absolutely from the craft. Because that was on the trailers. Features prominently in the beginning of the craft. As does one of the abstract occult symbols drawn apparently by Smith on one of the stashed documents. He was just really into the craft. That's all it was. Wasn't in a wicca, really wasn't just into the craft. Whatever they were into.

[Jimmy Westman]

Just wants to fuck a crazy girl.

[James Petragalo]

Holy shit. Among the items too that he had were a copy of a law enforcement radio, 10 codes and a police scanner. There's also a small battery operated television. There were molded plastic contour maps of the area of Giles and Blad counties where the attempted murder occurred. There were several places marked in pencil on the maps. He said, we searched those places and didn't find anything. There was. I don't know that now they're talking about in his stuff. There was, I don't know how many. Dozens of knives. Most of them look like kitchen knives. There was a couple hunting knives and maybe a butcher knife, but dozens of knives. There were clothes, I'm wanting to say eight pairs of ladies underwear. Oh, boy, that's new. There were several pairs of eyeglasses that were either ladies or unisex style glasses. What, so he just. Anything that a woman had, he feels like he can. Like some kind of witchcraft power. He can extract some pussy out of that. I don't know what his deal is. It's so strange. What a weird guy. So the panties and the eyeglasses and all this type of shit. So now they really want to find him. They bring in cadaver dogs. Ponds are trained, are drained to scour the muck for corpses. Nothing found. Roughly 100 of the collected items were called for DNA testing. The eight pairs of ladies panties, by the way, were black, size large, bright pink, size 7, pale pink, size large, light purple, size medium, 6 white, lacy, size L7, large, 7 white. Hanes size 8, white size 7 and white with blue trim, size size 7. They yielded no leads, no DNA. Same thing with the glass glasses. They're thinking that he might have taken those off somebody's clothesline. Sure. Yeah. That's like one person, one lady. One lady's clothesline. And then stole her glasses too. Maybe out of her car or something. Who knows. So they said we wanted to see if there was any blood on these knives. We got nothing. We sent out the underwear, but they'd been exposed to the elements and there was no DNA on it. So we don't know who any of that belonged to. We passed the word all up and down the trail for any unsolved homicides or anything like that. Nothing. It was just a crazy, crazy case. You would think that you could put a word out. Anybody here get a bunch of underwear stolen from them?

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Weird. Underwear thief.

[Jimmy Westman]

Maybe it's a cabin that somebody's not at a lot.

[James Petragalo]

That's the other thing. It might have found something like that. Or broke into somebody's house and that's all he stole was fucking underwear. Like a weirdo. So at that point, finally they spot him with the Ford Ranger one day in the woods. And they give chase on Sugar Run Road, which is also in Giles County. Randall leaves the scene, takes off, and it's a 2000 Ford Ranger. A state trooper spotted the vehicle on Sugar Run Road near Eggleston, Virginia. Pulled onto on the road behind Smith. He took off, went off the road to try to like run through the woods and flip the truck. Randall does.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, those aren't real good off road trucks.

[James Petragalo]

Not the best. A Ford Ranger, especially not. I don't even think it's a four wheel drive.

[Jimmy Westman]

It's a tough going.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, he was transport. I had a 99 Ford Ranger. That's not a real big off road truck. So he's transported to the hospital where he's treated for injuries. He had a trooper recovers a gun at the scene. It's the gun he shot boys with there. They said that the. He was released into police custody. They said. We read him his rights, informed him he was being charged with two counts of attempted capital murder, two counts of the use of a firearm during the commission of a felony, one count of possession by a firearm of a firearm by a convicted felon, and one count of grand larceny related to the theft of the pickup truck. And then we'll tack something else on for underwear after that. But that's a whole other thing. So that's May 5th. They find him. They get him from the hospital, they bring him in. The pictures of him sitting in the police station with a sling on his arm. He looks like a dead person. He looks like a fucking corpse. You look at him and you go, that person's alive.

[Jimmy Westman]

Ran from the law.

[James Petragalo]

Shocking that he's Alive. Then on May 10, five days after he crashes the truck, Randall dies in jail.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petragalo]

Croaks in fucking jail. They said at first the cause was unknown, but tests later on showed that he had a blood clot from the car accident that they didn't catch at the hospital. And he died. They went, whoops, oh, well, sorry about it. And he's dead. So there you go. Randall Smith is dead.

[Jimmy Westman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petragalo]

That's fucking insane, man. That's crazy shit. Yeah, he's. He just dies in a. In a chase. Blaze of glory, I guess, for him.

[Jimmy Westman]

As it can get.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, I mean, shit. I mean, fucking. He had Bon Jovi cranked when he crashed. That's when they found him. It was just a skipping CD of I'm going down and down, down, down, over and over again. Couldn't get to blaze of glory. So both of them survived the experience. Scott is hospitalized longer than Sean, but they end up getting better. The bullets. They both still have bullets stuck in their body. Sure. Farmer had been in sales, but within a few weeks, he ended up getting out of sales and getting a job driving a coal truck.

[Jimmy Westman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petragalo]

He didn't want to do sales anymore. He said, I didn't have people. Said I didn't have to interact with as many people. Then he was laid off due to a slump in the coal industry.

[Jimmy Westman]

Ouch.

[James Petragalo]

Johnston been doing some contracting work in the Bluefield area and also helping his mother, who'd been dealing with some health issues of her own. Sean said, I've camped out since then, and I've been alone in the woods. The only thing that's different now is that I used to be Mr. Nice Guy to strangers, but now I'm not. I was never like that before.

[Jimmy Westman]

I would never again.

[James Petragalo]

No, get the fuck away. Anybody walking up the fuck away from me, I'd be cocking my shotgun, going, keep on walking. Not. Not. Yep. Not what you're doing here. Johnston, the smaller guy, said, I feel like I got my life back. We both have a little pain, but all in all. But all the good that has come out of this has outweighed the bad. I still go out and fish, but I guess if this has taught me anything, it's taught me to appreciate the smaller things in life and to live day to day. He said, Randall Lee Smith tracked Sean and I that day, and we survived. It all happened within the blink of an eye. And I've been, and I've always been a good judge of character, but I never saw that. Yep, one Thing they'd like to figure out is they want to nail down confirmation that the.22 revolver with the one he shot Johnston and Farmer with was the same one he used to shoot Bob Mountford with. Because they never found that gun. And it was a.22 also, so they're thinking it might be the same one. The gun they got in the second crime, the cop said, was a very old gun, the one he used to shoot these two. He said it misfired a lot and it wasn't reliable. We ran a trace on the gun and it shows that it was sold to him in June of 81.

[Jimmy Westman]

He's had it a long time, which.

[James Petragalo]

Is yes, that's fucking crazy. They noted in the early 80s, by the way, because the murder happened in May of 81. But they said that in the early 80s the cops said it was not uncommon for a gun dealer to wait two or three months after a sale before sending the official paperwork. Sending a bunch of sale once. Yeah, they think it's the gun he shot everybody with. Probably he saved and stashed a fucking murder weapon away. They never found it. They looked through his whole house and everything. They never found it, they said. So he could have bought it in May or April and just not have been turned in yet. They said the visible evidence as far as the bullets were long gone since, meaning the bullets from the first murder case had been disposed of because the case was over with. So when Smith was found unresponsive in his jail cell, they said that was the end of it as far as they were concerned. One of the cops said he wasn't going to murder anyone else. So yeah, they said. They asked, what about the case? What's the progress of the case? Somebody in the press asked and the cop said, what's it classified as? We don't have anyone to prosecute, we don't have a victim, we don't have a crime. Other than the fact that he shot those two boys there that night. There's nothing illegal about having a stash of hidden stuff in the woods. There's nothing illegal about a man possession possessing women's underwear or women's eyeglasses. There's nothing illegal about a person having 30 something knives. Anything that could have been any help to us, any lead has been exhausted. It's just a dead case.

[Jimmy Westman]

That cop has a lot of ladies underwear.

[James Petragalo]

Holy's like, listen, it's not illegal. It's not illegal to have four dressers full of ladies underwear. It's not illegal to do that to have more ladies underwear than the rest of your clothes put together. That's normal now, right? It's not illegal to wear four or five pairs of ladies underwear at the same time, is it? No, it's not. Now, the best part of this entire thing is that. But on Randall Smith's Find a grave, which findagrave.com is a very somber, official thing, they have like the person's obituary. They have people write nice things about them. Flowers, where they're buried, where they're born. It's a remembrance of their life. So it's very rarely insulting. You know what I mean? It's usually reverent. His fucking thing says Randall Lyin Randy Lee Smith.

[Jimmy Westman]

Hilarious.

[James Petragalo]

It says Lion Randall on his Find a Grave, which is fucking incredible. Incredible. Now, Sean and Scott, how are they doing these days? I hope this is them. And I found an article about them doing. I think it's them. There's no pictures, so I don't know if it's them, but fingers crossed it's them. This article says either. Otherwise, there's two guys named Shawn Farmer and Scott Johnston who are just as close, which is weird. Shawn Farmer and Scott Johnson are two highly acclaimed musicians who've made significant contributions to the music industry. Farmer is an accomplished guitarist and singer songwriter known for his innovative and eclectic styles, while Johnston's a renowned drummer and producer who's worked with various artists, including the Foo Fighters. It says what the fuck? Together, Farmer and Johnston have collaborated in several projects. Their work has garnered praise for its originality, emotional depth, and sonic experimentation. Farmer and Johnston's partnership extends beyond music creation. They're also involved in philanthropic initiatives and have used their platform to raise awareness for social and environmental issues. Their commitment to using their art for positive change further highlights their dedication to making a meaningful impact. In conclusion, Shawn Farmer and Scott Johnston are two exceptional musicians who whose collaborative efforts have produced remarkable music. Their innovative approach, musical prowess, and commitment to social responsibility makes them influential figures in the contemporary music landscape. I hope that's them. I really do.

[Jimmy Westman]

You're incredibly talented.

[James Petragalo]

And then maybe you get super talented after that. Or maybe they decide just to go all in with that shit. I don't know what happened, but we hope so. Either way, Randall's fucking dead. He's not going to kill anybody else. But what a fucking disaster. This is a mess. Imagine living in that area during this time. Fucking crazy shit. So there you go, everybody. If you like that story, you should absolutely, surely tell the world about it. I would say tell every Boddamn person You know, they say boddam. God damn bod. Damn every goddamn person. They know about it, please. Because it really, really helps the show out. Also. Get on. You definitely want to go to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows. 2025 is ready and it's out. And we will go over those dates real quickly. Here, let me pull those up. There we go. All right, let's do it. We have February 7th in Pittsburgh. February 8th, Columbus, Ohio, at the Davidson. It's a nice place. We've been there before. Pittsburgh, it's the Carnegie Music hall with the bigger one in Oakland there because we're stepping it up there. May 16, we are in St. Louis at the pageant. Same place as last time. Beautiful place. Come out there. May 17, Chicago at the Riviera. Can't wait for that. We Love Chicago. September 6th, we are at San Diego, California, at the Observatory, where we've been before. September 7, 2025, we are in Irvine at the Irvine Improv. That's outside of Los Angeles. September 20th. Now, there is going to be another show added to this, by the way. The next day, September 20th in Grand Rapids, Michigan, I believe it's the night before is the other show. We can't announce it right this second. And when you hear what city it is, you'll go, oh, yeah, I get why they didn't announce it that day because it would be pretty shitty to do. It was just a cheesy thing to do. Okay. But definitely another show there. October 17th, we are in Portland, Oregon, at the Newmark. October 18th, Seattle, Washington, at the Moore. That's a gorgeous place. December 12th, we're in Philly. Oh, baby. Back in Philly at the Fillmore. Can't wait to get those cheesesteaks again. December 13th, we are in Washington, D.C. so get in there and get your tickets right now. They are available everywhere. So get in there. We're fucking jacked for it. We can't wait. Shut upandgivemerder.com follow on social media at Smalltown. Murder on Instagram at Smalltown, Pot on Facebook. So hang out and do that. You definitely want to listen to our other two shows, Crime in sports, which is hilarious. And you don't have to like sports. We have a horrible, like, basically somebody who makes Marlo on the Wire look like a nice guy, an awful drug dealer guy who has no two seconds of sports. And then it's all crimes right now. So check that out. And then. And we also. You want to listen to your stupid opinions which everybody. It's fucking hilarious.

[Jimmy Westman]

Terrific.

[James Petragalo]

If you're not listening to that show, you're missing out. You're really missing out. It's really funny. Check it out. Also head to Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get hundreds of episodes immediately upon subscription. Subscription. Whole huge back catalog of bonus stuff you've never heard. Then new shit every other week. One crime in sports, one Small Town murder. And we say it's shit. But you'll think it's stuff. It's great. It's good stuff. This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about. Just going to have some fun talking about old sports songs, not songs about sports. Athletes thinking they can sing, which is fucking hilarious. We're going to make fun of them and it's really, really great. We can't wait for that. Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about remote viewing, which is something that the CIA spent billions of dollars trying to do so someone could sit in a room, concentrate hard enough and see what a terrorist is doing in a cave 10,000 miles away. And mixed results. Let's just say that. So we'll talk about all that. Add more patreon.com crime and sports and you get a shout out which comes right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people on the face of this earth who would never, ever, ever shoot us multiple times at a campsite. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Westman]

This executive producer, Gary Howard, Laura Shin in Denmark, May Maida, Maida Luisa and Sam Bam. Merry Christmas.

[James Petragalo]

Merry Christmas to you.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah. Annette Hollywood, Courtney Gidel, Jadelle Jadele and Dr. Rita Miller. Thank you all. Thank you so much for what you do.

[James Petragalo]

We appreciate the hell out of you.

[Jimmy Westman]

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez, Jennifer and dan Ward. Happy 18th anniversary. Janice Hill, Jonathan Braun, Samantha Clark. Mysteries with no last name. Nancy Stislinger. Brandy Lynn Pierce, Richard with no last name. Amy, Jenna John. Jenna John, Jenny John, Jimmy John's. Ursula. I may know. It's Jenny. That's definitely Jenny.

[James Petragalo]

It's a competitor to Jimmy John's.

[Jimmy Westman]

I like Jimmy John's subs.

[James Petragalo]

I'm getting Jenny John's. Well, I mean, I'll eat anything. I'll eat Subway. I don't give a shit. But I prefer like a good deli sandwich with a good stiff bun and yeah, you know, roll and you know how it goes.

[Jimmy Westman]

Good, good buns on those Jenny Jones or Celia Prize? Diddy. Diddy Concepcione. Concepcion. DD Concepcion.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, Dee Dee. That's better than Diddy. You gotta be.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Well, K he. Ian Luckett. Luke IT Luckett. Ian Keith. Also, that's two different Ians. That's rare. John with no last name. Corey. Neely. Julia with no last name. Alexis Croce. Miranda Oliva. Kiddo. Coyote. Michael with no last name. Xavier with no last name. Chan. Chan with no last name. Lauren Hunter. Heatherwood. No last name. Stephen. Louder. Amanda Harker. Peter Lafrenier. Neil Poling. Hey, J. Hey, J. Elizabeth Kajo's. That's not right. Patty F.K. nelson. Also probably not right.

[James Petragalo]

Also.

[Jimmy Westman]

Christopher DeMars. Brie. Brie Bussell. Busel. What's. Yeah, all right. Mucho macho. All right. JKU Alien. Jakku Jaku.

[James Petragalo]

Amber.

[Jimmy Westman]

Fayette Fivet. Amber with no last name. Kaylee Hafner. April with no last name. Samantha McFadden. Sean with no last name. Madeline Happold. Whitney Patterson. Pam Parker. Kelsey Drew. Miriam. Tajita. Tacky. Tacky. Dean. Tacky. A Day Dane. Megan Magen. Magin. Magine Thompson. M, A, G, E, N. What is that? Magen.

[James Petragalo]

Maggot. Megan.

[Jimmy Westman]

Megan. Megan. Megan Thompson.

[James Petragalo]

There we go.

[Jimmy Westman]

That's what that is. Carlos, Edward. Laura. Laura.

[James Petragalo]

Their parents did her wrong, though. That's right.

[Jimmy Westman]

They sure did.

[James Petragalo]

They spelled Megan like that. She's like you. Just spell it.

[Jimmy Westman]

Maxwell, Emily Van. Cholete. Victoria. Lenya. Clayton Bonner. Janice Clean. Brian Herman. Misty Edwards. Kyle Stubbs. Lauren Truck. Costao Costa Park. Cow stub. Cow's tub. I don't know.

[James Petragalo]

Cow's stub.

[Jimmy Westman]

Heather. Heather Orozco. Trenton Miller. Britt McPeek. And Marie Cooper. Re with no last name. Jessica Lingonelt. Lingefelt. Lingafeldt. L. All right. Michael Johnson. Cheyenne with no last name. Blake Turner. Lauren Farrell. Mackenzie Engler. Mark Lanus. Linus. Leslie Foster. Sarah Dixon. Kevin Etion. Lauren Rushing. Kevin Bacon. That's amazing.

[James Petragalo]

Awesome.

[Jimmy Westman]

B, A K, I, N. That's sweet.

[James Petragalo]

Kevin's bacon.

[Jimmy Westman]

Yeah, he's bacon. William Wagner. Morgan with a no last name. Sea Witch 555 Kelly with no last name. Kathy Gaskell. Trevor with no last name. Eric Giuliano. Willem Vergen. Verhagen. Willem Verhagen. K. Nicole. Nancy Cagle. Luke Robinson. John Gray. Corey with no last name. Jill with no last name. Natalie Arch. Stephen Condoliff. Lisa Eisenberg. Alyssa Heberger. Hey. Baker. He Beggar. Hey. Beger. Avery. Aiden. Candy Brewer. Jadia with no last name. Daniel Pittman. Aliza. Elise. Elise Johnson. Layla. Not Layla. Leela not Layla. Okay. Jennifer Donato. Martha Grigsby. Katie C. Keith with no last name. Nicole with no last name. Gabriel Lucero. Evan Katz. Maya. Maya Holcomb. Eliza Holly. Miranda Davy. Christina Cruz. Elsa Almansouri. Aw. Jess with no last name. Megan. Wow. Megan Valakis.

[James Petragalo]

At least you got the Megan part right. You got that.

[Jimmy Westman]

I'd rather have the other way. That last name's no good. Tiffany Skates.

[James Petragalo]

It's worse.

[Jimmy Westman]

Sarah Delilah. Tara with no last name. Jay's Rock and Roll Stories. Waffle Bros. Rebecca with no last name. Rise. 804T Breezy. Laura Burgard. Laura Bergard. Amanda Ham. Emily Kittleson. David Talkington. Eric Sealer. Like micellar water sealer.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, okay.

[Jimmy Westman]

All right. Alice Mouse. Steve Chippendale. Underwhelmed reader. Melinda Johnson. Jasmine Bond. Jordan Bond. Becky with no last name. Mallory Hakes. Mallory with no last name. Larry Lava King. Jack Skin. Skinzel. Okay. Sophia Hayde. Not gonna.

[James Petragalo]

All right.

[Jimmy Westman]

Mickey Farrell. B. Moore. Sarah Forshi. Mary Mark. Mark Cook. Sydney Olson. Chris B. Aaron Garrity. Liz Lisa. Lisa McAllister. Ski. Michael Ski. Amy Williams. Armindan. Arminda. Arminda. Arminda Green. Michael Leftwich. Probably Byron's name. Kelsey Dunlap. Arinda. That's wild.

[James Petragalo]

Like Tiffany Morris type of thing.

[Jimmy Westman]

Armin. Yeah, Armin. Just like your mom. Your arm would be in the green.

[James Petragalo]

Two in the pink. Like, type of deal. Like, that's. Yeah, wild.

[Jimmy Westman]

And all of our patrons, you guys are the best. Especially Arminda Green.

[James Petragalo]

Thank you so much, everybody. You wonderful, fantastic bastards. We cannot thank you enough for what you do for us on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis. Thank you. Can't wait to see everyone at the live shows. Come out and buy tickets. You want to follow us on social media? Real goddamn easy to do. All you have to do is go to shut up and give me murder dot com. It's all right there. That said, thank you for joining us. And no, not live. That's the other show. Let's do that. We'll say instead. Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. If you like small town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Jimmy Westman]

Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes.

[James Petragalo]

Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story.

[Jimmy Westman]

One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today.

[James Petragalo]

The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in.

[Jimmy Westman]

A mirror, so when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American Historytellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, the Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker raided ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex.

[James Petragalo]

Science and religion, and how, even today, we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night.

[Jimmy Westman]

You can binge all episodes of the.

[James Petragalo]

Real History of Dracula exclusively with Wondery plus.

[Jimmy Westman]

Join Wondery plus and the Wondery App.

[James Petragalo]

Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.