#556 - Incurably Crazy Killer - Lewiston, Idaho

Summary

Small Town Murder Episode #556: "Incurably Crazy Killer - Lewiston, Idaho"

Hosts:

• James Pietragallo
• Jimmie Whisman (Bill Lee)

Release Date:
December 28, 2024

---

Introduction

In Episode #556 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the unsettling events surrounding a gruesome murder in Lewiston, Idaho. Blending in-depth research with their signature comedic flair, James and Jimmy navigate the complexities of a troubled individual and the impact of his actions on a small community.

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Setting the Scene: Lewiston, Idaho

The episode begins with James introducing Lewiston, Idaho—a town with a population of approximately 33,964 residents. Situated in the northern Panhandle near the Washington border, Lewiston is characterized by its blend of quaint old buildings and newer hip stores, earning nicknames like "El Town" and "River City." James humorously remarks on the town's size and location, stating, "[06:28]... it's practically Canada, you know what I mean?"

Notable Quotes:

• James (06:28): "Idaho's huge. Idaho's a big goddamn state."
• Jimmie (06:41): "They don't want to be called Eltown."

---

Introducing the Main Characters

The focus shifts to Brian K. Elliott, a 43-year-old Lewiston native working at Paulucci's shoe and clothing store, and John Mark Cope, a troubled individual residing in the apartments above the store. Brian is portrayed as a reliable employee who goes out of his way to befriend Cope, despite Cope's notoriously difficult behavior.

Character Insights:

• Brian K. Elliott: Described as friendly, hardworking, and someone who "eats like a horse" yet remains lean.
• John Mark Cope: A problematic figure with a history of mental health issues, including paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder. Cope's volatile nature makes him a challenging presence in the community.

Notable Quotes:

• James (16:34): "He's a real friendly guy. Makes friends with people, asks them about their personal life."
• Jimmie (22:21): "What's he do? Oh, God, he's a mess and a bit of a menace."

---

The Murder Incident

On June 29, 2002, John Mark Cope brutally murders his landlord, Brian Elliott. The confrontation occurs when Cope, under the influence of alcohol and Benadryl, becomes psychotic and perceives Brian as the "mark of the beast." In a frenzied attack, Cope decapitates Brian with a knife, mutilates the severed head, and flees the scene, leaving behind a horrifying tableau.

Event Timeline:

• 2:00 PM: Brian informs coworkers he must check on something upstairs.
• 3:00 PM: John Mark Cope is found in the emergency room, covered in blood, and later identified as the assailant.
• 4:00 PM: Two hours post-incident, Brian is discovered dead at the top of the stairs leading to the apartments.

Notable Quotes:

• James (35:59): "He would not give his name. He would only give his name as Dump Truck."
• Jimmie (41:05): "He saw the man's head. He's accused of the mark of the beast."

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Investigation and Trial

The local police quickly connect the dots between the injured man at the hospital and the subsequent murder of Brian. John Mark Cope is apprehended and faces charges of first-degree murder. However, Idaho law does not recognize an insanity defense, complicating his legal standing.

Legal Proceedings:

• Competency Evaluation: Cope is declared incompetent to stand trial due to his severe mental health issues, including paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder.
• Plea Bargain: To avoid the death penalty, Cope pleads guilty to second-degree murder, resulting in a fixed life sentence.
• Courtroom Dynamics: The defense challenges the competency evaluation, but Idaho law ultimately upholds the prosecutor's position, citing Cope's persistent inability to manage his mental illness.

Notable Quotes:

• James (57:03): "He suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder. Together, those are a bad combination."
• Jimmie (61:56): "We got two of those."

---

Insanity Defense and Idaho Law

The hosts discuss the absence of an insanity defense in Idaho, one of only four states without this legal provision. They critique the state's stance, highlighting the challenges it poses for individuals with severe mental illnesses who commit crimes.

Key Points:

• Idaho law does not allow defendants to plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
• The Supreme Court of Idaho upheld this statute, stating it does not violate due process.
• The decision was influenced by cases like Barrington Eugene Searcy in 1990, emphasizing judicial discretion over defendants' mental health claims.

Notable Quotes:

• James (59:03): "There is no insanity defense in Idaho... That's crazy. Not in Idaho."
• Jimmie (60:31): "Feels to me like that's about money, right?"

---

Aftermath and Community Reaction

Cope's actions leave the Lewiston community in shock. Friends, family, and local residents express disbelief and anger, with some blaming the landlord for enabling Cope's unstable behavior by allowing him to stay despite his history. Online reactions further showcase the community's fragmented sentiments, ranging from criticism of Cope's landlord to debates over the role of medications like Benadryl in mental health crises.

Community Insight:

• Family of Brian Elliott: Express profound grief and disbelief, struggling to comprehend the brutality of the crime.
• Public Opinion: Mixed reactions on social media, with some blaming systemic failures and others focusing on the immediate circumstances.

Notable Quotes:

• James (76:27): "This has nothing to do with anything... Maybe if he wasn't such a piece of crap landlord then."
• Jimmie (78:06): "It's not true, you idiots."

---

Conclusion and Reflections

The episode concludes with James and Jimmy reflecting on the broader implications of mental health management and legal systems in small towns. They emphasize the need for better support structures to prevent similar tragedies and highlight the devastating impact of neglecting mental health issues within communities.

Final Thoughts:

• The interplay between mental health and criminal justice remains a critical concern.
• Small towns like Lewiston must balance compassion with safety, ensuring individuals receive the help they need while protecting the community.

Notable Quotes:

• James (78:55): "It's impossible. We'll never have one again anyway."
• Jimmie (80:12): "Ancient Nutrition is pretty darn good at helping you look and feel younger and more healthy."

---

Closing Remarks

James and Jimmy wrap up the episode by promoting their upcoming content, including a two-part discussion on an exceptionally dangerous individual and a segment on remote viewing's effectiveness. They encourage listeners to engage with their other shows and support them through Patreon for exclusive content.

Notable Quotes:

• James (79:20): "Shut up and give me murder.com is the website. Tickets are available for 2025 full tour..."
• Jimmy (80:12): "Ancient Nutrition collagen supplements... Holy shit."

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Key Takeaways

• Mental Health and Crime: The intersection of severe mental illness and criminal behavior poses significant challenges for legal systems, especially in states without an insanity defense.
• Community Impact: Tragic events in small towns reveal underlying systemic issues, including inadequate mental health support and the stigmatization of individuals struggling with mental health.
• Legal Limitations: Idaho's refusal to recognize an insanity defense highlights the broader debate on how society addresses and prosecutes crimes committed by individuals with mental health disorders.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• James (06:28): "Idaho's huge. Idaho's a big goddamn state."
• Jimmie (22:21): "What's he do? Oh, God, he's a mess and a bit of a menace."
• James (35:59): "He would not give his name. He would only give his name as Dump Truck."
• James (57:03): "He suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder. Together, those are a bad combination."
• Jimmie (61:56): "We got two of those."
• James (59:03): "There is no insanity defense in Idaho... That's crazy. Not in Idaho."
• Jimmie (60:31): "Feels to me like that's about money, right?"
• James (76:27): "This has nothing to do with anything... Maybe if he wasn't such a piece of crap landlord then."
• Jimmie (78:06): "It's not true, you idiots."

---

Listen to the full episode on your favorite podcast platform and follow Small Town Murder on Instagram and Facebook. Support the show through Patreon for exclusive bonus content.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Bill Lee]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder Express. As you know, 10 pounds of murder two pound bag. It's a lot. We're stuffing it in here. We got a crazy story today of course as usual, seems to be the expresses are nuts always good. Then again, so is the regular episodes. Who cares. There we go. Let's get into this. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Get your tickets for 2025. They are out. They are for sale. Some places we've never been Before Grand Rapids. I know. Portland, Seattle.

[Bill Lee]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you for coming through.

[Bill Lee]

You're amazing.

[James Petregallo]

You're coming through. Pittsburgh, you're up first. You better get on Columbus. Yes. It is super bowl weekend. We understand, we understand. The Steelers are good. We understand that. I don't care. Get your tickets right now.

[Bill Lee]

Come on.

[James Petregallo]

They'll mess it up somehow in the playoffs. Get out there anyway. Just do it. Get your tickets right now. Columbus, all that stuff. Get them in there. We can't wait. We're very excited. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of those also. You certainly, definitely, first of all want to listen to our other two shows. Crying in sports and your stupid opinions which are just hilarious. And crime and sports. This week we are covering doing a two parter on a guy who makes any the worst character on the wire look like a good guy. Like it's just a terrible, terrible guy we're talking about there. So check that out. Patreon is the bonus stuff. That's what you definitely want. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get hundreds of episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription of back bonus stuff and then new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder. You get it all, baby.

[Bill Lee]

You betcha.

[James Petregallo]

For the low, low price of $5 for crime in Sports this week we're going to talk about it's Christmas. We're going to do some light stuff. We're going to do sports songs where we are going to watch athletes try to sing and we're going to laugh at them. It's going to be great. We got Macho Man. We got some very fun Carl Lewis stuff.

[Bill Lee]

Serious.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they're taking it real serious.

[Bill Lee]

They think they're good at this.

[James Petregallo]

It's a lot of fun. Then for Small Town Murder we're going to talk about remote viewing which cost taxpayers billions of dollars for the CIA to try to figure out if you concentrate enough can you see into a cave 10,000 miles away.

[Bill Lee]

Signed that check on a punch.

[James Petregallo]

Lots of people. That is wild shit here. Oh, through multiple administrations. This is a bipartisan fuckery is what we'll call that. Patreon.com Crime and Sports is where you get all that. That said, I think it's time everybody.

[Bill Lee]

Let's go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do this. Let's get this started. Let's all clear the lungs. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up. And give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We're going to Idaho, everybody.

[Bill Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy. This is northern Panhandle Idaho, too.

[Bill Lee]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this is on the. Like, kind of on the Washington border right there. West western Panhandle. This is militia country, is what we're talking about here.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, everybody that wants to move that panhand into Washington.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there's a lot of, like, quaint towns here, too, and stuff. But I mean, obviously, I. Probably not when the marches have come through on Saturday afternoons. So it's about five hours to Boise from here. So way up there.

[Bill Lee]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's about eight and a half hours to Idaho Falls, which was our last Idaho episode. So completely on the other side of the state. That is episode 509, almost got away with it is the name of that one populate that fucking big Idaho. Idaho's huge. Yeah, it's a big goddamn state. And this is practically Canada, you know what I mean?

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, it goes. That's what it does. It goes from the top of Utah all the way to Canada.

[James Petregallo]

It is pretty long population here, 33,964. So decent amount of people, actually. Median home price here, or median income, household income, Normally it's about 69,000. In the rest of the country here to $60,581. Median home price, $327,500. Nicknames for this town, they don't have any mottos, but they do have two nicknames that they proudly put out there.

[Bill Lee]

What is this town?

[James Petregallo]

Lewiston. Lewiston, Idaho. Is this town nicknames here. One is El Town, which sounds like a failed boy band from 2001. It's very.

[Bill Lee]

Also very bad now that. L means just losing.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I mean?

[Bill Lee]

You don't want to be called Eltown.

[James Petregallo]

No, that doesn't work. And then River City also, which. How many of those are there? Every. Every city on the river. Cincinnati, Poughkeepsie, you name it. They're all on the river.

[Bill Lee]

There's a lot of cities that are bigger than you. River City.

[James Petregallo]

History of this town here, it's believed to have been named after Meriwether Lewis from Lewis and Clark. Okay, there's a lot of Lewis and Clark shit up here. There's a Lewis and Clark College is up here and all that kind of stuff. And also after Victor Trevitt's hometown of Lewiston, Maine. But people did not know that that was the reason Trevitt had the idea so basically he named it Trevitt.

[Bill Lee]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

He came up with the idea to name it after his hometown, but was like, we'll name it after Lewis. So that way, yeah, nobody noticed. He simply stated the journal of Lewis and Clark talked about being in the valley. He didn't tell anybody that he was also from Lewiston. Here. The city of Lewiston's reservoir failed on January 18, 2023. Just. And when I say failed, I mean you wouldn't think. How does a reservoir fail? Is there a leak in it? This is catastrophic. This failure caused flooding with the release of 3 million gallons of water.

[Bill Lee]

That's a lot.

[James Petregallo]

That's a lot. So things to do here, surfing. You wouldn't expect that, would you? Northern Idaho reviews of this town. Gotta go through these quick because they vary vastly. We'll say.

[Bill Lee]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

We'll do a five, a three and a one star and see how it goes down the line. Here's a five star. This person loves this fucking place. First time I saw Lewiston was at night. Coming from the north. You come to a steep grade. You look right down to a valley. The view was incredible to me. Lights from the town expanded. Then. Then that van. Not then. That's why I messed that up. Then you saw the river running through the town. I guess that's Gorgus. G O R. I'm sorry? G O U R G O U S GORGUS Town Gorgas. The town has a feel of the old meets the new with their brick old buildings in the lower half. But clean, nice and family friendly to the other half of the town which has new hip stores. And the the old and young alike can shop at, of course. Oh boy. The streets are clean and maintained. Patrolled regularly. Makes you feel safe in a crazy world. Jesus Christ.

[Bill Lee]

33,000 people. How fucking uncle you feel?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. I've only been here a short time, but if I was to recommend a town to a couple about to start a family, without hesitation, I would say. Lewiston, Idaho. Yeah, without hesitation. Wow.

[Bill Lee]

I just found out it existed.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. That's what I'm saying. This guy is without hesitation, first words. Evidently there's a Lewis tonight.

[Bill Lee]

Beautiful view coming from the north.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man.

[Bill Lee]

You didn't say anything about the south.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. You come in from the north, boy. That's the view.

[Bill Lee]

You invade this mother from Jesus. From the north, you're gonna see something amazing.

[James Petregallo]

Three stars. It's a retirement community. There isn't much going on. It's a calm town. And I'M not sure I would like to see it change. I think that's. I think it's meant to be that way. Except they said it's meant to be that. Why? Which probably makes more sense if you've been here.

[Bill Lee]

If I could recommend it to a young person, I would.

[James Petregallo]

I would. I just feel as though I. I just feel as though I don't belong here. So this person's like, I don't think it's right for me. But you might like it.

[Bill Lee]

You might enjoy it.

[James Petregallo]

You may enjoy it.

[Bill Lee]

Old enough. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then one star. A great place to start a militia or a meth lab. Now we're talking. There you go. The town smells like rotten eggs and garbage because of the paper mill and composting plant. Yeah. This is not. What composting plant?

[Bill Lee]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

We take all of our poop and we mash it together here. They didn't mention that when they were driving into town and seeing the lights in the river. They didn't mention the composting plant. The composting plant in the distance. Also. There's nothing but junk food and everyone is obese. I am 190 pounds, which is skinny by Lewiston standards. I am moving tomorrow to fucking Lewiston. So things to do here. Hot August nights. That's what they got.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Hot August nights, which is. It's kicked off in 87 and began as a way to bring the Lewis Clark Valley a taste of great music and artists they've never had a chance to experience before.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

After the initial success of the first few years, a classic car show was added to the mix. They all always have a classic car show. How do we get old men to come here, put out a fucking car and put its hood up and they'll just show up. Men over 50 just wander in. They don't even know why.

[Bill Lee]

We're thinking about having a festival. We'll think about a classic car. I don't know if they've earned it yet. Let's have a couple successful a few.

[James Petregallo]

Years first and see if they can handle a classic car show.

[Bill Lee]

Burn some 91 octane down.

[James Petregallo]

Literally though, that guys just wander to these. They don't even know why they're there. Like, why am I here? Like aliens drew them there. Just.

[Bill Lee]

And if they brought their car there, they are the most jacked person on earth. I get to people look at it.

[James Petregallo]

A hood up on a 69 GTO and here I am. I don't know why. Lewiston's hot August nights is truly a community event. Downtown Lewiston streets are closed down so all the classic cars can be displayed. The event kicks off on Thursday at the local Toyota dealership. What I think of when I think of classic cars, I think of Toyotas. Yeah. With a preview of classic cars on their lot. They got like a 77 Corolla all fucking polished up for you. There was a guy that put a.

[Bill Lee]

Million miles on a Corolla and they gave him a brand new Corolla for it.

[James Petregallo]

Gee, thanks. I mean, nothing wrong with a Corolla, but I mean, give me something a little extra for that.

[Bill Lee]

It's not a reward.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Is there a turbo version or something? And then Friday night is Valley favorite with classic car cruise. And all these lead up to a car show and award ceremony.

[Bill Lee]

Wow. We go from the Toyota dealer and cruise somewhere, park these motherfuckers and give.

[James Petregallo]

Out and then judge some shit. Now the bands.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Who's playing?

[James Petregallo]

Here's some bands from over the. I don't know which year any of these bands are playing. This is from different times. Colby K Lat, you know, there you go. I do, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Lee]

You've heard one of her songs. Okay, one song that's very famous.

[James Petregallo]

Two time Grammy Award winning singer, songwriter who sold over 6 million albums and 10 million singles worldwide. Her breakthrough hit, Bubbly Remains. There it is, the best selling. I don't know what that is. Digital tracks in history. The cool sounds of Colby will bring a new feeling to the Pioneer park venue. I don't know who the fuck that is. I still don't.

[Bill Lee]

You've heard Bubbly though. I promise you.

[James Petregallo]

God damn it, I hope I haven't. And then Friday night, enjoy the beats of local bands. The Maple Bars. You wonder if they came down from Canada, what do you think? They came down from the north. And Mantis.

[Bill Lee]

Have I heard of Mantis?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. That sounds like a Slayer cover band is what that is.

[Bill Lee]

Sounds like they're pissed they didn't get signed too. You guys signed Rat?

[James Petregallo]

Why not? And then Night Ranger, baby, of course.

[Bill Lee]

Oh, is that right?

[James Petregallo]

They're gonna have Night. Not Night Ranger, cover band night. The real Night Ranger.

[Bill Lee]

Actual Night Ranger.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Let's talk about some murder, shall we? Let's do this.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go back to June of 2002 here. Let's go back in time a little bit. Not too, too, too far, but a little bit far here. 20 something years. Let's talk about a man first. Brian K. Elliott. Two L's one T by the way which really, really screws up a lot when it comes to newspapers and things like that. Now he is 43 in June of 2002. He was born June 16, 1959 to Alfred and Betty Elliott in Lewiston. He grew up in Lewiston, attended school in Lewiston.

[Bill Lee]

He is Lewiston through.

[James Petregallo]

He had a beard when he was 8, you know.

[Bill Lee]

You bet.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a beard and a collection of flannel by that and a beer belly. Oh, for sure. He is a big. And this is in this area also. Big deal. He's huge into camping, hiking. That's his. Yeah, that's his jam. The outdoors, which Northern Idaho. You better like the outdoors because there's a lot of it.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

That's what's up there.

[Bill Lee]

You got square print, whether it's a flannel or just a regular shirt. It's a lot of squares.

[James Petregallo]

You got a lot of jeans. A lot of 90 degree angles going on all over the place. Now, he is one of four brothers here, so it's him and three brothers to his mother and father. His favorite thing to do is because he likes camping and hiking, but he likes to go up to the Snake river, sit on the banks of the Snake river and read western novels. Really like old time 2002, we're talking the 90s into the 2000s, which is interesting. Western novels which were big in like the 50s, you know what I mean? Like. And before that, he's an old soul. He's an old soul up here. Now. His father and his older brother both are dead by 2002. His oldest brother and his father. So when we catch up, his mother and his two brothers are still alive. They live in Lewiston. He lives in Washington state though. But not too far from here, just across the border. Yeah, I think it's right near the border. So people.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, that Coburger kid was in Washington.

[James Petregallo]

He lived in Washington too. Yeah, it's right there. It's right across the border. So his brother Dave says he's just a nice guy, likes people, likes to talk. That's. That's Brian. He's a real friendly guy. Makes friends with people, asks them about their personal life and what's going on. Remembers people's, you know, how's your wife? So and so. He's one of those guys.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, that backwoodsy shit, they love that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but it's not. Not everybody's like small talk. Not everybody's like that. But he is, apparently. People said that at work he. They would tease him about his Appetite. Apparently. Eats like a fucking monster. But he's a thin guy. Wow. He's a thin guy, but eats like crazy. He's 511, weighs 160 pounds and eats like. Eats like a horse. 43.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he's killing it here. One of the co workers said we always teased, boy, I wish I could eat like that and look like. Look like that. So, you know, not be heavy set here. He works at Paulucci's shoe and clothing store.

[Bill Lee]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Paulucci over here? Yeah. There's the one Italian man in northern Idaho they found here.

[Bill Lee]

Well, he was tired of how you motherfuckers dress and opened a store to fix it.

[James Petregallo]

He's like, it's a shoe store and clothing store. He's like, I'm gonna fix this fucking place. Now, Jack Palucci is the owner of this joint, of course, and he said that Brian was always on time to work. He's on time. I'll tell you that much right now.

[Bill Lee]

I feel like Mr. Palucci will tell him if he's late too. Oh, yeah, the reason he's on time.

[James Petregallo]

What do you think? Is Brian a good guy? I don't know if he's a good guy. He's always on time to work, though. It's one of those guys. I don't know nothing about nothing. But he's on time to work. That's all I care about. He said, quote, he's a good worker. You can't find people who want to work anymore.

[Bill Lee]

It's true.

[James Petregallo]

People have been saying that since the forties. That's what's funny. Every time, like, yeah, people are lazy now. They've always been lazy. Has never not been a thing that's existed in humanity.

[Bill Lee]

The very first person was lazy.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. Now, the store itself is on Main street in Lewiston, and It's in the 500 block of Main Street. And above the store are some apartments. Yeah, I guess you could call. They're more like dorms really than apartments, to put it. So above the store are the apartments, but in these apartments, by 2002, by June of 2002, only one person lives in these apartments above the store, even though there's several. There's a guy named John Mark cope. Cope. He's 42 years old at the time, and he moved into these apartments in April 2002 with the help of Brian Elliot. As we'll talk about here now, this is. This is not luxury accommodations above the shoe store, by the way. This is dormitory style rooms with a common bathroom.

[Bill Lee]

Meager as fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is sharing a shitter with strangers, which is. That is. I will not do that. That's where I'm.

[Bill Lee]

It's. It's not just the shitter. It's the shower.

[James Petregallo]

It's sink, gross. It's everything. Yes. I'm not doing that. I'm not. I'm not fucking doing it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I don't care. I'll shit in the field first before I do that. I'll shit in the field in a place where no one else has shat recently. That's where I'll not.

[Bill Lee]

It's. It's the. Because there's ways of, like, not getting their shit on you or their piss on you.

[James Petregallo]

Doesn't matter.

[Bill Lee]

There's no way to not get their grime on you.

[James Petregallo]

Imagine sitting down on that seat and feeling warmth, like the seat was warm from a stranger's ass. I will not do it. I will not ever.

[Bill Lee]

I know, but I would wipe that thing down every single time and that would make it cold. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

What I would spend on Lysol wipes would completely wipe out any savings I'm getting for living like this. You know what I mean? I might as well have a bathroom room at that point.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Constant cleaning supplies. Wear them again.

[Bill Lee]

I would throw them the fuck out every time I showered.

[James Petregallo]

Every time I went to piss, I'd come in with a cart, like a fucking hotel maid with, like supplies and gloves on. It would be horrible. I couldn't live like that.

[Bill Lee]

I've had the flu all week. I've showered like 30 times. I'd have gone through Walmart shelf of shower shoes this week.

[James Petregallo]

I'm telling you, dude, it's gross. So now apparently the Cope is the only guy that lives up there. The shoe store is below. Everybody hates John Mark Cope in the shoe store. Except for Brian.

[Bill Lee]

That's his buddy.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he's the. He feels bad for him. Brian is the type of guy, if everybody else doesn't like someone and won't talk to him, he'll may go out of his way to talk to him, make him feel better. That's the type of guy Brian is. So his co workers, Brian's co workers said that he was the guy who dealt with Cope. Like whenever Cope would come downstairs to get mail or something like that, like, they would all turn their backs and Brian would be the one to deal with them because he was the only one who could deal with them. Everybody else couldn't stand him.

[Bill Lee]

Is that self preservation? You think, like, if Cope flips out, at least I'm gonna be the one taking care of it.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe. That was always my strategy in the office. I'd find the person most likely to snap and befriend them always. That's worked every time. The craziest people always were like, yeah, fuck this guy, that guy. You're all right. You know what I mean? It worked work. I did it with comedy, too.

[Bill Lee]

It's got to be this too, because.

[James Petregallo]

I knew some of those open micrs, they could snap at any moment. And I was like, I'm going to be friends with that motherfucker because he's going to kill all of you and not me.

[Bill Lee]

Though there was only one.

[James Petregallo]

I know, it's shocking, isn't it? Shocking.

[Bill Lee]

But he did it in a. In a scenario that was worldwide or at least nation.

[James Petregallo]

Everyone knew who. Yeah.

[Bill Lee]

Pretty amazing. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Disturbing.

[Bill Lee]

More famous. More people know who he is than any other fucking local Phoenix comic.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. We're competing with them. That's who we're competing with. That's it. So Jack Palucci's wife, Pitsy Palucci. Her name is Pitsy Palucci. Pizzi Palucci said Brian was the one who was always nice about John, meaning John Cope there. He said that most of the store employees did not like Cope and for a reason. Because Cope's a fucking weirdo, as we'll talk about.

[Bill Lee]

What's he do?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, God, he's a mess and a bit of a menace. He's got a lot of mental problems. Several involuntary, you know, stints. Oh, yeah, Several in different states even, like.

[Bill Lee]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Even wherever the standard of that state was, he'd fit it every time.

[Bill Lee]

Like, you can't even call it environmental at that point.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. No, no, no. He's a. He's a fucking. He's got problems, this guy. And very strange. Pitsy Palucci said it felt very uncomfortable when he came into the store, but Brian just said, don't be so judgmental. And Brian would deal with him and be nice to him. Come on, don't judge the guy. He's obviously got problems. Yeah, he's obviously got problems. She said, Elliot, Brian would go outside to smoke and would talk to Cope. When he'd go out to smoke, Cope would come down and talk to him. And that kind of kept him at bay. It was Elliot who got Cope into the apartment above the shoe store. That's how he got there, because he was at the time, he was homeless. Cope.

[Bill Lee]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

He had no home. I guess 20 years before this, these bathrooms would be rented out by, like, old. Like, retired single people on a fixed income because they shared a bathroom and all that. But recently they had stopped. I guess Palucci owns all this. They had recently decided to stop renting them out because they said the renters were no longer respectable. Getting shitty old people coming in here. So he said, I'm not renting out any of my place. I'll take nothing. I don't want these people. I rent nothing. It's just I have empty apartments I keep up there, which is crazy. So Cope was the only person left living up there because it was all empty. But Brian Elliott convinced his boss to let Cope stay there. Come on, let rent him a place. The guy's got. He's down on his luck and all that kind of shit. And Palucci said that Cope paid his rent on time and didn't cause any problems. There's no one to cause fucking problems with. No one else lives there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Once the shoe store closes at what, six? He can go buck wild up there. No one will care.

[Bill Lee]

Go nuts, bounce off the walls.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. At one time, Palucci said that Cope had a lot of visitors coming and going, but then nobody else. Then they. Then it stopped. And this is from April to June 2002. So he had friends, and he didn't have friends. A little bit about Cope's past here to get a little window into this guy. He moved a lot. Number one, never really stays at one place for very long because he's always has problems. And he's known to have lived in California. He lived in Coeur d'alene and, you know, all that kind of thing. He. I guess he has a background of commitments in California. All up and down the state of California. He's been committed to mental institutions and put in places, put in hospitals, basically. So they said a number of occasions he's been involuntarily committed in California. I don't know what a number of occasions means, but it sounds like a lot. Sounds like quite a bit. Since then, since he came to Idaho, he was cited for trespassing three times, which is normal for a homeless person. That's. They get a lot of trespassing charges, once for disturbing the peace and once for battery on February 15, 2002. So he attacked somebody. So that's three, four, five. That's five separate police actions in the. In the past six, eight months in this town. That's a lot. That's an Awful lot. And if he's homeless, that makes sense. Uh, in the case of battery, he was taken into jail and then he battered somebody else as well. Uh, he wounded a fellow inmate at the Nez Perce County Jail in a fist fight over what television program to watch.

[Bill Lee]

Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is the guy who goes to jail and fist fights people over what's on tv. That's this guy over television. Television. We know. Any sane person goes to jail, whatever's on is on. I don't fucking care. I'm not fighting criminals over fucking TV time.

[Bill Lee]

If there's a program, I'm watching it. I could give a fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Don't fucking care. So he was involuntarily committed for mental health problems in the state of Idaho on three occasions prior to this, by the way. So those are all arrests and then he's been committed on three different occasions as well. Just in Idaho.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Do we know what the imbalance is it just a short fuse?

[James Petregallo]

He's got a lot going on. We don't know. We'll find out his exact diagnosis later. But it's, it's, he's got a lot of problems mentally.

[Bill Lee]

Is it chemical?

[James Petregallo]

It's, it's definitely nothing that he can just like wish away. It's definitely something he needs to be on some serious medication for here. The hospitalizations were from June 7th of 2001 until August 2nd of 2001. Then October 25th, they put him back in.

[Bill Lee]

Right back in.

[James Petregallo]

So I mean he lasted not even three months of 2001. And he's in there till January 15th and then January 15th he gets out in 2002 and then March 1st they put him back in and then the 20th he gets out. So it's like he's in for three weeks, he's in for a month, out for three. In for a month, out for three, basically. And that was the most recent involuntary commitment leading up until June of 2002, was him getting out on March 20th of 2002. And then in April he gets out, he's homeless. Brian helps him get the apartment in April. There we go. So shortly after discharge, the last time, he became non compliant with his outpatient mental health treatment. And they said this made him suffer a decompensation of his illness. He got worse. Obviously he needs to be on medication, this guy. There's no if, ands, buts or two ways about it. You know, it's one of those things.

[Bill Lee]

Fortunate. He's probably never going to be a rich man. He just needs to focus on this, and this is where you mark your. That's the mark of a successful man when you're in this position is, yeah, get better, committed. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Try to, try to stay out and stay on the, on the level here.

[Bill Lee]

Member of society. That's success.

[James Petregallo]

And he has a history of basically when he's non compliant with his treatment and medications. When he's on medication, he's fine. Everybody says he's fine. But the problem is he doesn't stick with it at all. And they said when he's not sticking with it and when he's non compliant with that shit. He has a history of aggression and violence toward people. He lashes out at people, obviously. Frustration over a fucking TV show. So he was homeless, had no support system, had no anything like that number. Another factor here is that he is a huge alcoholic too, Booth. So he has mental problems and he's drinking like crazy, which is only going to exacerbate mental problems, obviously. I mean, yeah, you might drink, yeah, you might drink to quiet the voices in your head, quote unquote. But yeah, they're not going to help voices in your head. They're going to make them louder, probably.

[Bill Lee]

Right? And all that does is make them scream because you can't hear them.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, they're going to shout louder now because you can't. They can't hear you, sir. You can't hear them. So those are a lot of factors to this guy. And they said each time he's been involuntarily committed, that's the pattern. He gets out, he does his outpatient shit for a little while, throws it away. Within a couple more weeks, he's in the hospital again. Rinse and repeat. Basically. That's why we saw that pattern emerging. That's his pattern.

[Bill Lee]

A good cry, man.

[James Petregallo]

He needs a good lot of shit. He needs a good. He needs to be medicated. And then he can figure out what he needs for the rest of us. We need him to be medicated.

[Bill Lee]

He needs a good. We need him to get a good chemical balance.

[James Petregallo]

That's it.

[Bill Lee]

He needs a good cry to figure out what the fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Chime. You know, we all spend more than we should during the holidays and that kind of thing. But we have something that will help you take control of your finances. You use a chime checking account, which features like no monthly or maintenance fees. They have none of that. Yeah, a fee free overdraft of up to $200, which is incredible. Or you can get paid up to two days early if you have direct deposit. It's wonderful. You learn [e-mail] Smalltown Murder We've done it. We've all overdrafted by accident. The next thing you know, you're paying as much in fees, sometimes more in fees than you even drafted out for it.

[Bill Lee]

So sometimes something happens in the car and you got to get it fixed.

[James Petregallo]

That's what you can do.

[Bill Lee]

Sometimes it's more than you expect.

[James Petregallo]

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[Bill Lee]

Now back to the show. Christmas is coming up.

[James Petregallo]

James.

[Bill Lee]

Did you know that?

[James Petregallo]

It is coming up. That's very important. You know what people should do around Christmas? Oh, you need shopping money. And the thing is, sometimes you're going to find money in places you never thought. Like where like subscriptions that you're paying for you don't need to pay for because you don't even know you're paying for them. But yet they're coming out of your account every month.

[Bill Lee]

How can you fix that?

[James Petregallo]

Rocket Money is what helped me out. That's the thing. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow that savings. Rocket Money will they negotiate lower bills for you? They can do that by up to 20%. All you have to do, submit a picture of your bill. Rocket Money they take care of the rest. They'll deal with customer service. You don't need to be on hold for two hours. Rocket Money will take care of it. It's wonderful. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to Rocketmoney.com Smalltown Murder that's Rocketmoney.com Smalltown Murder Rocketmoney.com Small Town Murder.

[Bill Lee]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So June 29th, 2002 comes around.

[Bill Lee]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. So Brian's birthday was a couple weeks ago.

[Bill Lee]

Oh, he's getting ready to see the festival. It's together.

[James Petregallo]

Hot August nights is coming. He's getting ready to see Night Ranger. He's ironing his Night Ranger T shirt that he got in 84 during the tour. Oh, man.

[Bill Lee]

So I'm listening to them tonight. I fucking loved them.

[James Petregallo]

Gotta rock some Night Ranger. Fuck yeah. So it's 2pm that day. The shoe store is open and bustling, and John. Mark Cope is upstairs, or John. Yeah, Mark Cope is upstairs in his apartment. Brian Elliott is working at the shoe store. He tells the employees, his fellow employees, he's got to go upstairs to the apartments to, quote, check on something. So I got to go check on something. I'll be back in a minute. Okay. So he takes off. Doesn't come back right away. Gone for quite a while. But he always talks to Cope. So his employees are like. He's probably stuck in a conversation with this guy. Yeah, that's what happens. I mean, how. How busy can a Main street shoe store be where we're like, we're. We're flooded. Come on, we need somebody all hands on deck, man. Somebody measure that kid's fucking feet. They're not going to measure themselves.

[Bill Lee]

Get his foot out of that. Who didn't give him the sock? Who's got.

[James Petregallo]

My God. Where's the sock? Does anyone know where the tell gas Brian where the sock is? No one can find the sock, man. The sock. So then 3pm Comes around. Yeah. So it's an hour later. John Cope enters the emergency room of St. Joseph Regional Medical center at 3pm okay, they said he's super distraught, and that really doesn't even scratch the surface here. This is crazy shit. Okay, he had a small cut on his hand. Not a huge cut, but, you know, a decent, Decent little gash. Maybe a couple stitches. But he is covered in blood.

[Bill Lee]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Like he was standing in the hallway in the Shining, like, fucking covered in fucking blood, and there's a little gash on his hand. They're like, wow, that's a bleeder, huh? Holy. You a hemophiliac or something? The fuck is wrong with you? Holy shit. So he acts so weird. And the fact that he's covered from head to fucking toe soaked. I mean, blood is dripping off of him.

[Bill Lee]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And he's got a cut on his hand. So they're like, this isn't normal. So they call the police. Also, but he refused to identify himself. And his conversation was what they called, quote, nonsensical in the reports. They couldn't even understand what he was talking about. So they didn't know any. They were like, wow, this is crazy. So they were talking to him and they said, would you like some help with your, you know, point, because he's pointing at your head. Would you like some help with whatever fucking dust bunnies are floating around in there?

[Bill Lee]

How about that? Al dente. Let's talk.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, yes, he was. He voluntarily committed himself to the hospital psychiatric unit on the fifth floor. So they check him in there. All right, he's all checked in. We'll talk about some of the stuff he was saying because it was fucking wild. He wouldn't. They said, what's your name? And he said, dump Truck.

[Bill Lee]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He would not give his name. He would only give his name as Dump Truck. That's his name. First name, Dump, last name, truck.

[Bill Lee]

So 20 years, and that's a nurse with a big caboose, I understand.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a dump truck. They're like, he. He wasn't saying his name. He was complimenting that nurse. That's what he was doing. Now I understand him. He's just horny, likes big asses.

[Bill Lee]

He's crying, everyone.

[James Petregallo]

He's not crazy. He's just horny. He's just very sane. He likes big asses. That's understandable. We all get that. So 4pm Comes around now. Brian Elliott still never came back to the shoe store.

[Bill Lee]

And it's only been a couple hours.

[James Petregallo]

It's been two hours.

[Bill Lee]

This guy's already in the fucking mental unit.

[James Petregallo]

He's in the psych ward already. So they're like, well, we should. Someone should go fucking at least maybe bail him out of a conversation. Maybe he's stuck up there with this guy, come out and go, hey, we're super busy down there. Brian could use you. That sort of thing. So Bill Lee, one of his co workers, ran upstairs to go check on him. He's like, I'll fucking find him when he gets there. He doesn't even get to the top of the stairs when he sees the problem. And that is Brian Elliott is light laid out dead at the top of the stairs. And it's a fucking scene, man. This isn't really. This isn't. Oh, is he okay? Let's go check his pulse. He doesn't have a head.

[Bill Lee]

What?

[James Petregallo]

His headless corpse is at the top of the stairs.

[Bill Lee]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

Head sitting nearby. You know that's not.

[Bill Lee]

He left it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's sitting there. Yeah. He didn't take it with him or anything, so. Yeah, why take it?

[Bill Lee]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

This guy thought he was getting five minutes away from the shoe store and he found something he did not want to fucking find. So, yeah, this is the top of the stairs that lead from Main street to the second floor apartments. So his. Yeah, that's his. He's decapitated like a motherfucker. That's the only way to put it. He's super decapitated. Lee, the guy who found him, said it was not a pretty scene. It was one of those unfortunate things that happened. That's a little bit more than unfortunate, I would say. So his head is not on his body anymore. He said, you expect to read about stuff like this in a large urban area, but not in a small town like this. Thank you, Bill Lee, for making our premise relevant.

[Bill Lee]

So we haven't done saying that for several years.

[James Petregallo]

The cops get brought there, blah, blah, blah. They do all this shit. They find the body, they do all that. They go, where's the guy that lives here? And they give his name, John Mark Cope. And they're like, hold on a minute. They start putting two and two together. They go back to the hospital. We saw a guy covered in blood a little while ago. That's not good. So they're gonna interview Cope, which is gonna be an adventure number one here. Yeah. The detective also said that bloody footprints lined the hallway of the apartments up there, and there was a blood trail leading from the apartment to St. Joseph's Medical Center.

[Bill Lee]

Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

You could follow a fucking blood trail from his apartment to the hospital.

[Bill Lee]

My God.

[James Petregallo]

He was dripping blood all over the place. Just left us. That's wild. So they advise him of his rights, and he immediately starts making completely incoherent statements.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That in the. In the midst of these incoherent statements are the fact that he did kill Brian Elliott. He does admit to that. Oh, he'll still give you a whole detail of what happened here. But there's a lot of comments about the Beast. He's talking about the Beast all the time and letting the beast out. And he insists that his name is Dump Truck. Also.

[Bill Lee]

I wish Dump Truck hadn't invented this jar. This doesn't. This is so bad.

[James Petregallo]

This is crazy.

[Bill Lee]

Golly.

[James Petregallo]

So they said, what the fuck happened to you? What. What made this happen? And he said, well, I was sitting in my apartment watching tv, as one does.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And I was drinking beer, and I think maybe Using some Benadryl, too.

[Bill Lee]

Using some Benadryl.

[James Petregallo]

So beer and Benadryl will make you think your name is dump truck. Apparently.

[Bill Lee]

It certainly isn't good.

[James Petregallo]

And he said as he's sitting there watching tv, drinking beer, taking Benadryl, like I said, as one does, that's when he started hearing voices in his head all the time. Just people shouting at him in there. And it gets loud in there. And so he said, that's right when Elliot knocked on his apartment door. Right when he was hearing voices in the midst of the voices. Well, we'll find out here. So then he said he went to the emergency room, covered. And they said he was covered in blood, acting psychotic, talking about letting the beast out. He told an officer at that point that he was being tormented by the mark of the beast. Don't you understand anything? I'm being tormented. And when the mark of the beast came to his door, he was being tormented. And then that's all these voices. And then the knock came. That must be the mark of the beast.

[Bill Lee]

Oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

So he said he came when. When the beast. Mark of the beast came to his door. He cut the beast head off with a knife. He said, obviously, duh. What would you do? Mark of the beast is at my door.

[Bill Lee]

Timing that this had to.

[James Petregallo]

Timing. So this is fucking crazy. Now. The. The reason why Elliot went up there was to remind Cope that he had three days to move out of the apartment, because I guess there was a. His time was coming to an end here. So I guess he knocked. I guess he knocked once and nobody answered. So he knocked again, and that's when Cope attacked him and grabbed a knife and decapitated him.

[Bill Lee]

Well, the good news is he's got a new place to stay now, I.

[James Petregallo]

Would say, so he's not homeless anymore. And then if that wasn't enough, he severely mutilated the severed head. After that, he took the severed head and attacked it with a knife and beat it. And he said that he was trying to stop the head from talking, and it wouldn't shut up, the severed head. So he was stabbing it and just, like, punching it and kicking it and trying to get it to stop talking.

[Bill Lee]

What do you do with that?

[James Petregallo]

I don't even mean what do you do with this guy?

[Bill Lee]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

Clearly, there's some issues here. So he. He said he was following the instructions of. And he wrote this down because they were like, what is that? So he wrote it out. M E L C I R D A K Melsar Dack. That's who Was telling him what to do. Melzerdak.

[Bill Lee]

Doesn't mean a goddamn thing.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I heard H U R D By the way. This is his writing. They said, write down what happened for us, will you? Because no one's going to believe you said the shit that you're saying. So you got to write it down. And then we'll have it in a report.

[Bill Lee]

Heard, like turd.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. I heard God say, finish him off. He's the mark of the beast. Which. How many times has God told you to do that? I mean, you got to ignore God sometimes. You know what I mean?

[Bill Lee]

Look. Yeah, we got a society.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Bill Lee]

And I go, not this one.

[James Petregallo]

Not today. God. Jesus Christ, come on. He said, he's the mark of the beast. Get your knife and answer the door. And there was a man who I thought was the mark of the beast. A black man, mutated white. It's just Brian. Just a white guy from Idaho just standing out his doors.

[Bill Lee]

This is your white from Idaho who got you a room.

[James Petregallo]

Who got you a room. Helps you out, smokes cigarettes with you. That's how fucked up he was. He didn't even see him as Brian. He saw him as a black man, mutated white. And he said, and that's when I slit both sides of his neck and ran him down. Cut his head off and tossed it so he could not speak or hear. Wow. He said I had been taking a lot of Benadryl and hearing voices.

[Bill Lee]

Take Benadryl off the shelves tomorrow.

[James Petregallo]

Tomorrow. If this is true, no Benadryl at all for anybody. You give your kids that shit, you know?

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Who knew allergy med and beer would do this?

[James Petregallo]

Wow. I'm gonna. I know what I'm doing tonight.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Three beers and a couple of Benadryls. I'm gonna have a party, bro. This is gonna be great. No one knock on my door tonight at all. Be careful, everyone. Stay away from my house. Cause it's gonna be dangerous.

[Bill Lee]

There are pink lines drawn on all the tables in this house.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, that's what he said. He decapitated him. He mutilated the severed head. And he said that's how he cut his hand. Mutilating the severed head.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they go, we're going to go ahead and arrest you. This is fucking crazy. So they go back. Police find a knife that a witness said he saw Cope hide in a shrub at the corner of 3rd Ave. And 6th street at Pioneer park in Pioneer. That's where the concert is. By the way, if you want to go listen to Bubbly. You can walk by the knife bush.

[Bill Lee]

And that's there playing by the murder bush.

[James Petregallo]

Playing right by the old murder weapon, shrub. That's great. So then there's a mail carrier here, Carla David, who was the postal worker who delivered mail to the store. And she also dropped off mail for the upstairs apartments in the store. She says, it amazes me this whole thing could happen. I just talked to him two hours earlier before his death, about Brian. She gave Elliot a letter for Cope.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And Elliot confirmed yes, he's still living there. He's leaving in three days. That is the other reason he went up to the apartment to make sure.

[Bill Lee]

He gets the mail.

[James Petregallo]

So I'm gonna go give him his mail and tell him he's got three days left. And that's what happened. So if the mail didn't come, he probably wouldn't have gone up there that day. That's what's fucked up. If he didn't have any mail. So goddamn. It was probably nothing, too. It was probably Publishers Clearinghouse. And this guy got way worse than that. It was something terrible.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking money mailer coupon book or some shit.

[Bill Lee]

So awful.

[James Petregallo]

So now his mother and two brothers. Brian's mother and two brothers said they're coping with the shocking nature of this death. Because they said, it's one thing for your kid to die. It's one thing for your kid to be murdered. It's a complete other thing for your kid to be murdered and decapitated and have his head mutilated. And that's a lot to process. That's a lot. Dave, his brother, said we're all leaning on each other. And his mom, Betty, said, if we don't have each other, I don't know what we. If we didn't have each other, I don't know what we'd do. It's like somebody took a slice out of my heart. Well, he took a fucking head off of your son.

[Bill Lee]

What are you talking about, lady?

[James Petregallo]

Took a head off your son.

[Bill Lee]

Why say slice in that moment?

[James Petregallo]

Why do people do is. It's a weird thing that people can't. Like their brain, it's got to be.

[Bill Lee]

Stuck in you somewhere that you gotta.

[James Petregallo]

Say something so often. It's too much so often where people don't. The last thing I would use is any knife work terms.

[Bill Lee]

Any knife reference at all.

[James Petregallo]

Well, you know, we're trying to sharpen our emotions up on something. And, you know, it's really. The life is a blade, really, if you think about it. There's edges to it, it's, you know, someone touch a.

[Bill Lee]

Took a knife, baby, edgy and dull. Cut a 6 inch valley through the middle of my skull.

[James Petregallo]

That's how it feels.

[Bill Lee]

What are you talking about?

[James Petregallo]

What? So Palucci here, Jack Palucci over here, downstairs. He said it came as a shock, this death. He said anybody could have been the victim in here. So it could have been anybody. He said, quote, it could have been anybody. Literally, it could have been anybody. Why did they do that to Brian? Brian didn't have anything to do with it. Okay, let's break down this statement. Cuz I love an old Italian man's statement. It could have been anybody. That's just a. That's. That's a sweeping generalization for the top of this key.

[Bill Lee]

That's how they usually start a denial.

[James Petregallo]

But go on then why did they do that to Brian? Like there's 10 people who did it. They make it sound like it was like he went in an alley and a gang attacked him, you know what I mean? And took all his shit. Then Brian didn't have anything to do with it. Do with what?

[Bill Lee]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

I guess the fact that he was leaving in three days. I don't even know. He didn't get a chance to say, you have to be out in three days. He was too busy getting decapitated.

[Bill Lee]

So he knocked and then was just eviscerated.

[James Petregallo]

The doordash driver could have gotten this. Anyone who got knocked at that, who knocked at that point while he was hearing voices, I think it was pretty much over.

[Bill Lee]

Could have been anybody.

[James Petregallo]

So. Wow. The prosecutor here, the county prosecutor, expressed what he called substantial concerns about Cope's mental health in his first appearance in court. And he said he's prepared to move on with the case assuming Cope is competent to stand trial. He said that mental illness doesn't prevent him with being charged with first degree murder, which requires the act to be willful, deliberate and premeditated, which probably one out of three, full and deliberate.

[Bill Lee]

We got two of those.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not premeditated. He didn't even know he was coming.

[Bill Lee]

Seconds to call that, right?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I don't see premeditated here. So the main street after a couple days, back to normal. Nobody cares.

[Bill Lee]

What?

[James Petregallo]

That's it. The police captain said all they're doing now is just continuing with the investigation and following up with any potential witnesses. They said the crime tape that they used to cordon off the crime scene was removed and the Palucci's opened their store again on Monday. And that was that. They said, there's the espresso card across the street. People are sipping their lattes and doing their normal shit here. Later on in the day, they said the movies were full, Minority Report was playing, it was sold out with Tom Cruise. So if only that was true, we could have known anything about this. So the police chief, Jack Baldwin. Everyone's name is Jack in this town.

[Bill Lee]

Evidently.

[James Petregallo]

He said bad crimes sometimes happen in small cities, but his force is prepared to deal with it. He said, we're capable of restoring peace back in the valley when it occurs. Okay, it's one guy who went crazy. It's not like there's a rash in a band of fucking vigilante.

[Bill Lee]

If something happened in the guy who did it house and the guy who did it wandered into a hospital. If both of those things hadn't happened, yeah, you'd be fucking.

[James Petregallo]

You wouldn't know anything like anybody else. So the. They said that they. They found the knife in his first court appearance. They said they have the knife. They're convinced Cope did it alone, obviously. They said, though they had several officers ready to testify, that Cope's speech was nonsensical. And the prosecutor also said he had unconfirmed reports that Cope had been admitted to the psychiatric hospitals in the recent past. There confirmed he definitely was. So they said, the prosecutor said it's important to establish as soon as possible whether he's actually capable of standing trial. And they said that the judge appointed the defense attorneys. And he said, I can't imagine why Mr. Chapman or Mr. Van Eater, those are the attorneys would want to contest this evaluation. But two hours after being appointed, the one lawyer argued against the evaluation. I don't know what you're arguing against. Saying the defense should determine whether or not to have Cope exam and not the state. Oh, so what if they suggested it for you?

[Bill Lee]

Right. Why don't you do it too?

[James Petregallo]

That's like your stomach's growling. You're just about to say you're really hungry and someone goes, you want to go get dinner? And you go, you motherfucker. I was going to say that. Fuck you, but yeah, but it's so weird. You're both in this case.

[Bill Lee]

Wouldn't you be like, thanks, great, do it, because then I'm gonna do it and we'll have battling people on. That's the whole point.

[James Petregallo]

His lawyer said there was no substantial evidence that Cope was suffering from any mental disease. Only the impressions of police officers. Who do you work for?

[Bill Lee]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

He said, this is just putting the cart before the horse, sir. What are you talking about?

[Bill Lee]

Believe in mental health?

[James Petregallo]

Apparently it seems like it. So the judge admitted that the law was unclear whether the prosecution or defense should move forward with a mental evaluation. I think he's like, it's never come up that the prosecution says a mental evaluation. The defense says, no. The defense is the one going mental evaluation all the time.

[Bill Lee]

The man said his name's dump truck and he saw the man's head. He's accused of the mark of the beast. Let's check him out.

[James Petregallo]

Let's give him a little look. See?

[Bill Lee]

Golly.

[James Petregallo]

So the the prosecutor described the apartment hallway, which has been sealed as a biohazard due to the large amounts of blood still on the floor, as well as hair and flesh. Luckily, nobody else lives up there. That's good. Yeah, nobody has to step over that. So they the judge grants the defense team $2,500 to hire an investigator also and said that hurry up because the scene needs to be cleaned up. Basically, yeah. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you more about our safest sponsor, Simplisafe. If you ever worry about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act than right now. Simplisafe is the home security that we trust. That is a fact. We've been using it for, I think seven years now. And it brings great peace of mind. It's fantastic. You know, your stuff is protected. You knowing your home is protected 24. Seven by SimpliSafe is a huge relief. Get 50% off today just by visiting simplisafe.com small and it's your last chance to protect your home at Simplisafe's lowest prices of the year. Simplisafe's active guard outdoor protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. If someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, those agents see them in real time, talk to them directly, set off your spotlights, and even call the police before anybody's had a chance to get into your house. That is awesome. Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only you can get 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com Small that's SimpliSafe S I-M P L I Safe.com Small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Bill Lee]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

So first July 5th, now a few days later. It says the prosecutor had requested the examination, but Cope's attorneys objected and now they said that he will not be evaluated. So then the judge finds him, even though he hasn't been evaluated, finds him incompetent to stand trial, and he needs to undergo a psychiatric evaluation for several months. So he's committed for the 90 days of diagnostic. What the fuck is wrong with this person? Shit going on here. He says that his attorneys now say, because once they said that he's competent, then his attorney said, no, he's not.

[Bill Lee]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

They said they can't communicate with him. So. Right, yeah, that's a problem here. Then they get the psychiatrists in here, okay? Two psychiatrists, both come up with the exact same diagnosis.

[Bill Lee]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yes, he suffers. Suffers from paranoid schizophrenia.

[Bill Lee]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which is not good. That's hearing voices and all that. And antisocial personality disorder, which is also bad.

[Bill Lee]

That's real bad. Which is also worse.

[James Petregallo]

Together, Together. Those Are a bad combination.

[Bill Lee]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody's gonna die. That is some kind of cocktail right there. So that's like fucking bleach and. What is it? Bleach and ammonia mixing together. So. Yeah. He testified in this hearing that he may have been drinking beer. Thinks he was using Benadryl. He was definitely hearing voices. Yeah. So the judge said to him, they've indicated that you have a serious mental health problem. A mental health problem. It doesn't appear that has ever been successfully treated in a manner in which you can manage yourself in society and not cause some kinds of problems. This has escalated to the point where you are before this court for a very serious offense.

[Bill Lee]

I've got some very serious questions about who the fuck was treating him elsewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Well, they would put him in for a while, they'd get him on medication.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

When he's inpatient, he takes medication, he's fine. So they have to release him after a while and he's supposed to do outpatient medication, but then he just stops taking his medication when no one's watching him. So there's no way they fucking figure.

[Bill Lee]

Out that these two things are his problem.

[James Petregallo]

I probably. He's been in several mental hospitals. I assume so. But he just takes off. He goes and moves somewhere else.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Oh, that's a good point.

[James Petregallo]

If you're moving, then that doesn't help either.

[Bill Lee]

Get help up there.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, that's it. Glad to be rid of that guy. That's what people think. Probably. So four months later, they finally deem him ready for trial. All fixed up now, all sane. Now here's the thing. There is no insanity defense in the state of Ohio or Idaho. I'm sorry, There is no not guilty by reason of insanity in Idaho. It's one of four states that does that where they do not. You could be rip roaring insane, running around with a fucking terrier's skin on your head as a hat. Fuck. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you're fine. Wow. Isn't that crazy? That's. Wow. There are crazy people. They exist. People who literally cannot control their actions and don't know right from wrong. Yes, we know that. So to say that they don't. Not in Idaho, they don't. Is crazy. Not in Idaho.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not in Idaho, Kansas, Montana, or Utah. Now, luckily, that's like 150,000 people total. So that's not a lot of people. Luckily. But still.

[Bill Lee]

But Utah, the amount of Mormons, those people are clearly crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, right. No shit planet. Your own planet, huh?

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Not crazy at all.

[James Petregallo]

Sure thing. So yeah. This was challenged in 1990 by a guy named Barrington Eugene Searcy, who challenged Idaho's ban on the insanity defense. He argued that the unavailability of the insanity defense violates due process. But the Supreme Court of Idaho upheld the statute and holding that neither the Idaho Constitution nor the United States Constitution expressly requires the insanity defense.

[Bill Lee]

Feels like. Feels to me like that's about money, right? It's got to be cheaper to hang on to somebody longer in prison than it is to hang on to somebody in a fucking insane asylum.

[James Petregallo]

That's about politics. That's about somebody got away with something. Someone didn't get prison time because they were crazy. And some politician ran on. I will make it so none of these people claim they're crazy anymore.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And all this shit happened in the early 80s after Hinckley. That was the thing. Hinckley was a big one that drove people to say that. That crazy doesn't exist. Or even if it does, if they do something I'm mad enough about, it doesn't matter.

[Bill Lee]

Right. And it's kind of like that threatens the. The actual leader of the free world.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of like if you're 14 and you do something bad enough, you're an adult all of a sudden. Now that's kind of like one of those things we can. If we can make you an adult, we can say you're saying too. I guess so. 2003 Here, they're talking about the death penalty for this guy and all this shit. The trial's about to come up.

[Bill Lee]

I mean, he's useless. Let's call it what it is.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, yeah, he's not going to contribute much to society. So he agrees instead to plead guilty to second degree murder to avoid the death sentence. That's the only deal.

[Bill Lee]

Instead of the death sentence.

[James Petregallo]

Well, first degree murder carries the possibility of the death sentence. Second degree doesn't. So he pleads guilty to second degree. So there's no possibility of the death sentence here. So he has spent the last three months under state psychiatric treatment, and he's here. The prosecutor said questions about his mental state, among other issues, convinced him to make a deal. The prosecutor said.

[Bill Lee]

Among other things.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, among other things. He said, quote, I don't believe that in our justice system a death penalty on an individual who was in a psychotic episode will be upheld. He didn't say it won't. It's wrong.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I feel like the US Supreme Court will strike this down later, is what he said. So why bother? They probably won't no, but they. There's a chance when someone's that fucking crazy that they're going to at least commute it to life. You know what I mean?

[Bill Lee]

I don't. I've never heard of any prisoner who got a death sentence identifying themselves as Dump Truck.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing. Dump truck is different. Although they've. They've executed people with like a 60 IQ that can't remember their fucking name. That's true, too. He also, no, they can't write. The prosecutor also cited questions about the validity of the state's death penalty law following last summer. 2002 summer meaning Supreme Court ruling that juries, not judges, must determine if aggravating circumstances exist to warrant execution. Idaho's system was not set up like that. It was still set up where the judge is the one to do that. So they said that legislation reacting to that decision is awaiting a final vote in the Idaho house at the time. Time. So he's like, I didn't know what to do. I'm stuck in limbo. So I made a deal with the guy. And he said, also, not having a trial will save tens of thousands of dollars for the state. Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah. And then we're going to have. Because also fighting all those appeals later on to the Supreme Court. That's going to cost the state a fortune. He's like, this is just cleared out now.

[Bill Lee]

It's very funny that they said tens of thousands.

[James Petregallo]

Tens. It's hundreds. Yeah. Wow. So the judge said, I just want to ask them, meaning the person putting this plea so that I can determine whether or not you're entering a plea of guilty this morning, knowingly, voluntarily and intelligently. I don't think he can do those three things. First of all, no. So they said after a lengthy dialogue with Cope, which the judge reminded Cope of the charge against him as well as the maximum penalty, said you plead guilty. He said he pled guilty. They said, has anyone promised you anything like that, I'd be easy on you if you pled? He said, no. All that kind of thing. So the set that comes up later. So that's why I say that the sentencing. The written plea agreement also included the following waiver of Cope's right to appeal. This is part of the deal.

[Bill Lee]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Unless the plea is rejected or withdrawn, the defendant hereby gives up any and all motions, defenses, objections, appeals, or requests that the defendant has made or raised, could have served hereafter or to or against any matters preceding the court's entry of judgment and imposition of sentence. So you're signing away your future rights to complain if you're pleading here. So the state filed a motion asking that the pre sentence investigator be allowed to review the psychiatrist reports. Cope opposes this motion arguing that prohibited use of that report in the criminal proceeding for any other purchase other than determination of competence, because that's what that was for. So now they're being picky and they. And that's going to come up because the law says a statement made by a person subjected to a psychiatric or psychological examination or treatment in Idaho code blah, blah, blah, for the purposes of such examination or treatment shall not be admissible in evidence in any criminal proceeding against him on any issue other than the defendant's ability to assist counsel at trial or to form any specific intent which is an element of the crime charged. Except that statements made of a defendant to a psychiatrist or psychologist are as relevant for impeachment purposes. So unless it's to say whether you're competent in a competency hearing, you can't use this in court.

[Bill Lee]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

You can't take his shit from there and go, look how crazy he is. He's a murderer. Yeah. So at the sentencing hearing, the state called the doctor to testify anyway. Cope again objected, but the court overruled the objection and let him testify, even though it clearly states in the law that he's not allowed to. So the doctor testified about statements that Cope had made during the competency evaluation, as well as his opinions formed there in. So anyway, the closing arguments and sentencing.

[Bill Lee]

Here, because he's already pled. So they're just having these people testified to find out what the judge thinks is the sentence he should get.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. That's exactly it.

[Bill Lee]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So the prosecutor argued that Cope would never be safe on the streets, pointing to his failure to take his antipsychotic medications upon release from numerous involuntary commitments to mental facilities. He said, you can't trust him to. If he takes his medicine, he's fine. He won't take it. He's proven that in the past. He won't do it.

[Bill Lee]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Now, Cope, they said, anything to say for yourself? He said, sure. I got a couple of. I'd like to throw a couple of things out there. He says this. This is his whole statement, and it's crazy. Quote, I know it was a bloody mess. That's an understatement.

[Bill Lee]

What are you, British now?

[James Petregallo]

I know. Yeah. He said, that's what I thought too, for a. I know it was a bloody mess. A bloody mess in it. He put in it afterwards. And it was very different, innit? He said there was a lot of blood. It was something I've never done in my whole life before. Hope not. I hope not. You never decapitated a man? Shocking. Gee, me neither.

[Bill Lee]

How did you let this guy keep going?

[James Petregallo]

I know, it was a bloody mess. There was a lot of blood. It was something I've never done in my whole entire life before. Then he says, quote, I think a decade behind bars ought to be sufficient. I think 10 years should do it. Right. I'll learn my lesson right there. You say, no, no, no, he's crazy and you put him. I think 10 years behind bars ought to be sufficient. That should do.

[Bill Lee]

The flu couldn't kill me this week that almost did.

[James Petregallo]

This will do it. I think. A decade behind bars.

[Bill Lee]

The fuck are you talking about?

[James Petregallo]

I mean, less if you think, but I, you know, I'm gonna say 10 years just to be magnanimous, but you can say less if you want and I'll take it. But, you know, 10 years ought to make.

[Bill Lee]

I'm willing to do 10 on it.

[James Petregallo]

I'll learn my lesson, I think, in 10 years. Okay. The judge has a lot to say about this, by the way. Oh, I can't wait. He has a lot to say. Before sentencing, the judge says, and I quote, I am very concerned, I have to be concerned about the fact that there does not seem to be any kind of outpatient setting that can handle your state of mental illness. If you are involuntary involuntarily committed, you are in custody. Obviously during those commitments you tend to clear somewhat, you are released. And then as this number one, I read you states, shortly after discharge, you become non compliant with your outpatient mental health treatment, suffering and decompensation compensation of your illness. I'm also concerned about your history of aggression and violence when you're non compliant. And the reason is because the pattern is you become non compliant. Then when you become non compliant, you're aggressive and violent, which obviously creates a great risk to others and in this particular case created the greatest risk of all three. I don't find, or it doesn't appear to me that your circumstances are going to change relative to this factor.

[Bill Lee]

No.

[James Petregallo]

That you are homeless and lacking any support system doesn't help. You're a 43 year old man. That has been, and this has been your situation for quite some time. You're not getting better.

[Bill Lee]

Where the fuck is your family?

[James Petregallo]

That's the other thing. We have no idea. He said, also chronic alcohol abuse. He said, and I don't Think this is ever going to go away. And from your statement to the court, it just does not appear that that's something you are ever going to successfully manage on your own.

[Bill Lee]

Doesn't seem like he's willing. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, protection of society is the most important goal of. Mr. Cope. I have to tell you, I view you as a very dangerous individual. No shit. The most dangerous. And the reason I do is because of the four factors that I talk to you about and that are contained in the mental health evaluations. Because of those four factors, you are dangerous to others. I think there's a high likelihood you'll commit another crime if you're released. I think so too. And everyone has indicated those criminal offenses have been escalating in nature. And some of them may be characterized as kind of nuisance type offenses. But obviously you can. You are capable of much more than nuisance type offenses. Yeah. Taking someone's head off is more than a nuisance.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. I wouldn't call that nuisance behavior.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Your conduct caused and threatened serious harm. And there was no justification, absolutely none, for what you did. We can only describe it as being a particularly chilling and brutal manner in which you took the life of Brian Elliott. He said, in this particular case, your mental illness has been described as incurable. You're fucked.

[Bill Lee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It can be treated such as that you can be functional, it appears in a custodial setting, but the pattern has been anything less than that. You've not been able to successfully function in society and you've not been safe for others of us who live in society. I frankly can't conceive of feeling comfortable ever with you residing in the neighborhoods of any of our communities. And if. If I can't do that, if I can't conclude that in probability you could be rehabilitated and could function society if there was a chance for that. But frankly, with the evidence before the court, your history of mental health treatment and your history of mental illness, your prior criminal conduct and this particular offense, I can't conclude probably that you would ever become positioned to be safe in society. We have years. I give you 12, doesn't you? We've talked about whether or not you might be able to circulate in the general population in a prison sentence setting. They're like, I wouldn't even put you in gen pop, never mind society.

[Bill Lee]

I love how you said 10 years in jail when I can't even see you around murderers and rapists.

[James Petregallo]

I can't even put you with other rapists and murderers. You Understand, I fear for rapists safety with you around.

[Bill Lee]

You need rehabilitation to be stepped down into population where these people are spending the rest of their natural fucking lives.

[James Petregallo]

Into normal murderer status. Holy shit.

[Bill Lee]

That's awesome.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. And that frankly is for prison officials and treatment providers to make that determination. And I think they obviously are gonna consider that based on the testimony I have heard this morning. You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole.

[Bill Lee]

There it is.

[James Petregallo]

10 years.

[Bill Lee]

He said, I think a decade will do.

[James Petregallo]

Like a decade behind bars ought to do the trick.

[Bill Lee]

He said, yeah, I think maximum probably baker's dozen. 13.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Yeah, we're good there probably. I mean, if you could put me in for 15, I'll be out in 10, I could probably do that. But I wish that judge would have.

[Bill Lee]

Laughed when he said a decade out.

[James Petregallo]

Of your fucking mind. Cut him off right there. So he appeals this even though he's not allowed to appeal this somehow. So laws mean nothing in Idaho. Crazy doesn't exist. You can put fucking psychiatric evaluations into court when the law clearly states you can't. You can sign an agreement saying no appeals and then appeal. There's no law in Idaho. Fucking whatever. He said that he shouldn't have allowed a mental competency report to be included in a pre sentencing report. Same thing he was arguing that the judge didn't let him do. He said it violated his fifth amendment right against self incrimination. He said that shit. I said to him that you weren't supposed to use for this. Which is true. That's true. He said the district court erred in admitting this. Here he contends the admission for sentencing purposes of this report disclose statements made by Cope during the court ordered evaluation and infringed. So the state argues that Cope has no right to an appellate review of these issues because his plea agreement had a waiver of that. So it doesn't matter if he's right or wrong. They assert that with his exception of his claim of an excessive sentence, the issues he asserts on appeal have been waived. So he said none of this matters. So he also maintains that his waiver is invalid though because neither the court nor either party mentioned it during the change of plea hearing. And at one point the district court advised Cope that he had the right to appeal because they said that to him. The judge said that to him. So that over, I guess supersedes the agreement. I don't know. They said both the prosecutor and defendant are bound by the terms of the agreement and are correspondingly entitled to receive the benefits for which they bargain. Consequently, a defendant will not ordinarily be allowed to retain the benefits of a plea agreement while at the same time disclaiming its provisions that benefit the state. They said, so it's clear Idaho law permits the waiver of a rights appeal as a term of plea bargaining. Anyway, all this shit, they go, get the fuck out of here. There you go.

[Bill Lee]

You got what you got, man. We're not redoing any of this. What you did and you pled to.

[James Petregallo]

That's it.

[Bill Lee]

I don't give a fuck about any of the plea.

[James Petregallo]

And they said he poses a grave danger to others if he should ever be released from prison. In light of the primary goal of sentencing, the protection of society, we cannot say that the district court abused its discretion in imposing a fixed life sentence. I would too, because you're fucking nuts and you're violent. So that's that. He Appeals again in 2006 and he is told this was a gruesome and horrifying crime that warrants the sentence imposed by the district court. When. When all the appropriate information and factors are considered, it would be difficult to rationalize any other sentence.

[Bill Lee]

When asked if you have anything to say, you led with. There was a lot of blood.

[James Petregallo]

There's a lot of blood. Let me tell you something. I get that he was trying to be like. I get that what I did was bad. Look, I get it was gross. But 10 years. August 31, 2019. Here, 3:40am at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna, officials find Cope hanging in a cell.

[Bill Lee]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. Which is not surprising if he's got mental health problems and all that. Yep. They said that he'd 59 years old. They said the time of death. They have him dying probably just before 9pm but didn't find him till 3:40am oh, my God. Almost seven hours in that cell here. So that's what happened then. Here are some comments from the Facebook post announcing this announcing his death. About announcing his death. Yes. Like the news, the local Idaho news Facebook page.

[Bill Lee]

What do these crazy fucks have to say?

[James Petregallo]

Okay. This is how shit deteriorates. Okay. One says, as a family member to Brian, all I can say is good. With four exclamation points. My heart is filled with joy knowing this man no longer breathes air. Okay.

[Bill Lee]

Then dancing in the blood.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Then Idaho cold cases who posted this said, no kidding? Were they strangers? Did you not read? You could have read the court documents. I did it. Then they respond, in a way, he was a renter above the shoe store my cousin worked at. The owner of the shoe store also owned the apartments up above. Cope made a maintenance call and Brian responded, which I never heard that in anything. They said, wow, thank you for the info. I'm sorry for your family. Then someone else comments on this thread and says to the original person who said, that's my cousin. The owner is a piece of garbage. See what I mean? This has nothing to do with anything. John Palucci is just not a good human.

[Bill Lee]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

This has nothing to do with this. Not that this is relevant to what happened, but maybe if he wasn't such a piece of crap landlord then or now. So apparently they're bl. He. They're blaming John Palucci for this.

[Bill Lee]

John was going to kick him out in three days, so he sawed somebody else's head off.

[James Petregallo]

And it's unbelievable. Someone else says, I knew Benadryl can cause drowsiness, but I didn't know it could cause hearing things. That's scary. If indeed what he claims is true and then someone comments on their thing. If it is, then the family and the victims needs to sue. Oh, Benadryl.

[Bill Lee]

It's not true, you idiots.

[James Petregallo]

Then someone else says, depending on the circumstances, I know that a lot of cold and allergy medicine have interactions with their different prescription medication, hallucinations being a common side effect. Then someone else says, that is true. I didn't think about the possibility that he was using other prescription medications. Then someone says, I couldn't agree more. And someone says, sue Benadryl. Someone says, well, of course the person in the McDonald's hot coffee suit made bank. That's the Internet. It just deteriorates to nothing.

[Bill Lee]

And you know what? Her.

[James Petregallo]

We can't have a society turned off. What are you talking about? Yeah, well then a lot of people from the comments go, stop using that as an example. We know now that that was a fucking horrific thing and blah, blah, blah. But that's the Internet.

[Bill Lee]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

In within 10 comments it will deteriorate away from all this. We can't have a society.

[Bill Lee]

We can't.

[James Petregallo]

It's impossible. We'll never have one again anyway. There you go, everybody. That's Lewiston, Idaho and some crazy fucking shit. Wow. If you like that story, get on whatever app you're listening on, give us five stars. It helps a ton. Shut up and give me murder.com is the website. Tickets are available for 2025 full tour except for one city. We have one more city to announce. And when it comes out, you'll understand why we didn't announce it on the.

[Bill Lee]

I love it.

[James Petregallo]

It's going to be a big one too. You guys gonna be fun.

[Bill Lee]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

It's a place we've never been before, city we've never been to. Never one of those.

[Bill Lee]

I've been there a lot.

[James Petregallo]

Never, never perform.

[Bill Lee]

And I can't wait.

[James Petregallo]

Can't wait. So get those right now. Shut up and give me murder.com also follow on social media at smalltown Murder on Instagram at Smalltown pot on Facebook patreon.com CrimeInSports is the bonus material. All you need is $5 a month or above and you get hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard and new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. You get them all, baby. This week, what you get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about athletes singing songs, we're going to play the videos, we're going to laugh our asses off. It's going to be a fun Christmas time. It's gonna be like a fun therapy session for us. Then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about remote viewing when people thought they could see 10,000 miles away. What's going on right now?

[Bill Lee]

You can't.

[James Petregallo]

You can't. It didn't work. So they claim it did. We'll talk all about that. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. You wanna follow us on social media, head over to the website dropdown menu. It's all right there. Come back and keep seeing us each and every week. And until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey did you know that you can make your life saving donation to Doctors Without Borders go even further? Whether you donate stock, recommend a grant through your donor advised fund or make an IRA qualified charitable distribution, you can take advantage of strong market performance this year to maximize your charitable impact, making.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It possible for Doctors Without Borders to.

[James Petregallo]

Stay ready to respond in more than 70 countries around the world. Together we go further explore ways to [e-mail] podcast.