#569 - A Stalker To Die For - Geraldine, Montana

Summary

Small Town Murder: Episode #569 - "A Stalker To Die For - Geraldine, Montana"

Release Date: February 13, 2025
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman

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Introduction

In Episode #569 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the perplexing and tragic case of Dr. Brian Rain, a beloved veterinarian in the nearly deserted town of Geraldine, Montana. This episode unpacks the intricate web of relationships, stalking behavior, and the subsequent murder that has left the small community in shock.

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Geraldine, Montana: An Overview

Geraldine is nestled in Chouteau County, Montana, boasting a sparse population of approximately 200 residents. The town, originally established as a railroad stop in 1865, is surrounded by vast landscapes, including parts of the Lewis and Clark National Forest and the Rocky Boy Indian Reservation. Despite its picturesque setting, Geraldine remains isolated, making it an unlikely hotspot for violent crimes.

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Background: Dr. Brian Rain and Thomas Jareski

Dr. Brian Rain

• Born: Valentine's Day, 1965, Rocky Ford, Colorado
• Profession: Veterinarian
• Family: Son of Robert and Shirley Rain; siblings Charlene and Teresa
• Relocation: Moved to Geraldine, Montana, in 1994 with sister Charlene to establish Prairie's Edge Veterinary Services.

Thomas Jareski

• Born: 1973
• Relationship: Long-term boyfriend of Ann Wishman, a local woman from Geraldine
• Behavior: Exhibited possessive and jealous tendencies, especially after moving in with Ann in December 1995.

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Events Leading Up to the Murder

The relationship between Ann Wishman and Thomas Jareski began deteriorating by May 1996. Ann confessed to Thomas that she felt the need to seek space, which he misinterpreted as infidelity. Thomas's behavior became increasingly erratic and controlling, marked by daily phone calls and unannounced visits to Ann's home.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo [12:24]: "He's a womanizer, he's a 30-year-old vet. You kidding me? He's got a puppy under each fucking arm walking around. Chicks are flocking to him."

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The Night of the Murder: July 12, 1996

On the night of July 12, 1996, tensions reached a boiling point. Despite having received a restraining request from Ann to cease contact, Thomas persisted. Late at night, Thomas showed up uninvited at Ann's residence with a bottle of liquor, leading to a heated confrontation. Unable to sway Ann, Thomas fled, only to confront Brian Rain at his veterinary clinic.

Key Events:

• Confrontation: Thomas allegedly entered Brian's trailer, resulting in a physical struggle.
• The Shooting: Brian was found dead with multiple gunshot wounds.
• Crime Scene Issues: The deputies on-site hastily photographed and then began cleaning the scene with household cleaners, destroying potential evidence.

Notable Quote:
Jimmy Whisman [78:52]: "Did you see? They went to the police. They arrested somebody. You fucked up the crime scene."

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Investigation and Mishandling of the Crime Scene

The initial investigation was marred by negligence. Deputies at the scene took only about a dozen photos before using 409 cleaner to sanitize the area, obliterating critical evidence such as fingerprints and DNA traces. This hasty cleanup severely hampered the ability to piece together the events leading to Brian's death.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo [111:10]: "It's been a year, two years almost. You fucked up the evidence to the point where it was really hard to convict him."

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The Trial and Verdict

Years later, in 2015, Thomas Jareski was re-arrested and brought to trial for the murder of Dr. Brian Rain. The absence of concrete physical evidence, combined with the tainted crime scene, played a pivotal role in the trial's outcome.

Prosecution's Argument:

• Stalking Behavior: Highlighted Thomas's obsessive behavior and inability to move on post-breakup.
• Circumstantial Evidence: Relied heavily on Thomas's erratic actions and the flawed investigation to build their case.

Defense's Argument:

• Lack of Direct Evidence: Emphasized the absence of fingerprints and DNA linking Thomas directly to the murder.
• Mishandled Investigation: Argued that the corruption of the crime scene negated the prosecution's claims.

After a lengthy trial, the jury found Thomas Jareski not guilty, primarily due to insufficient admissible evidence.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo [173:11]: "Look him up in the afterlife in the old white pages and ask him. Because that's the only way we're ever going to know who killed Brian Rain."

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Aftermath and Public Reaction

The acquittal left many in Geraldine baffled and outraged, especially considering the mishandling of the crime scene. Public opinion, as reflected in feedback on platforms like Facebook, largely sided with the hosts' belief in Thomas's guilt, criticizing the law enforcement's incompetence.

Notable Quote:
Jimmy Whisman [171:22]: "Yeah. But I mean, without a doubt, we know two facts. Larry Hagen book was guilty or might be guilty because he."

Despite the verdict, unresolved questions lingered, and the case remains a poignant example of how critical proper investigation procedures are in the pursuit of justice.

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Conclusion

Episode #569 of Small Town Murder offers a deep dive into a convoluted case where love, obsession, and negligence intersected tragically. Through comedic yet poignant commentary, James and Jimmy shed light on the complexities of solving crimes in isolated communities and the dire consequences when investigations falter.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• James Pietragallo: "You might as well have insertted his penis into her." ([70:50])
• Jimmy Whisman: "He's that, for Christ's sake." ([135:19])
• James Pietragallo: "Look him up in the afterlife in the old white pages and ask him." ([173:11])

Note: Timestamps correspond to moments within the transcript where the quotes occur.

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This meticulously researched episode not only recounts the harrowing events surrounding Dr. Brian Rain's murder but also serves as a cautionary tale about the paramount importance of diligent law enforcement practices. For those intrigued by true crime narratives infused with a splash of humor, Episode #569 delivers an engaging and thought-provoking experience.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to get you styled up with Stitch Fix. Shopping's hard. It's hard. With Stitch Fix. You get a stylist, though, who understands your style, your size, your budget, and they do all the shopping for you. Wow, this is excellent shopping. I'm telling you. Shopping and figure out your style. It's overwhelming. Let somebody help you. When it comes to getting dressed, we don't know what we're doing. So we let Stitch Fix help us out. A Stitch Fix stylist there, they know it works on us. We get the prices that make us look really good and it feels good. You get some confidence boost walking around knowing that you're looking decent here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

We just give the stylist our sizes, style, budget preferences. I hope we order boxes when we want, how we want. No subscription or any of that required. And they send all just for me pieces as well. Oh, like maybe you'd like this. And it's awesome. Outfit recommendations, styling tips. You keep what you love, you send back the rest. It's super easy. You can do it. And we are doing it because it's excellent personal styling for everyone. Get started [e-mail] STM that's stitchfix.com STM.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about Noom. Has Noom helped you? I believe it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's got an app you can do tracking. It's terrific.

[James Petregallo]

It does it. Noom builds personal plans that can meet individual needs. That's the thing. Takes into account any dietary restrictions, medical issues, other personal needs that helps build a plan that works for you. And yes, so you've. I know that you've had your own personalized program here that you've been working on and weight loss, that, that, that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is, this is weight loss results that last. They stick around because you, you get yourself into a lifestyle change and that's what matters.

[James Petregallo]

That's mainly. You can't just say, I'm going to for a month and then go back. That's not where you don't. So I'm glad it's helping you. That's great. And it really does. I like the psychology and biology based approach here. Noom weight uses psychology. That's why they say losing weight starts with your brain, but it also takes into account your unique biological factors. Jimmy. All of all of your multitude flora and fauna that goes on inside of you there. Stay focused on what's important to you with noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial [e-mail] noom.com n o o m.com here based on 3.5 year study of actively engaged Noom users with minimum starting BMI of 25. Individual results may vary. Visit our website for more information. In the depths of an Atlanta forest, a clash between activists and authorities ends in tragedy. I'm Matthew Scher and on my new podcast, We Came to the Forest. We exposed the hidden truths behind a shootout that left one activist dead and and countless lives forever changed. Binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest ad free on Wondery. This week in Geraldine, Montana, a mystery unfolds when a veterinarian is brutally murdered. And the suspects include girlfriends, ex girlfriends, girlfriends, ex boyfriends and others. But will the bungling of the crime scene make it impossible to solve? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane, wild, crazy, murderous edition of Small Town Murder. As you're used to, we have a crazy story for you today, a definite mystery. I mean, this is a. Oh, it's a, it's a weird one here. We will get to that for sure. But definitely head over to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows if you. I'm telling. If you're listening to this early, you might be able to still get to Pittsburgh on February 7th. If not Chicago. St. Louis. St. Louis is almost sold out. Chicago's getting there. That's in May. So get your tickets today for those. And all the ones at the end of the year are selling very fast, I think. Sold out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

San Diego. Done.

[James Petregallo]

San Diego's about sold out. Yeah, Irvine, you got to get your tickets there if you want to go there. D.C. philly, all that. Seattle at the Moore, all those. So get in there, shut up and give me murder.com. get your tickets right now. Also get yourself some Patreon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure you've listened to all the crime and sports episodes because you don't have to like sports. You just have to like, I don't know, crime and humor. So check that out. And you've listened all to your stupid opinions and you need more. And Patreon will provide that. This week. What you do is [e-mail] crimeinsports, anybody, $5 a month or above, you're gonna get immediately hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before. All right there. Access to that. And then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder, and you get it all, everybody. Only $5. And this week, which you're gonna get for crime and sports, we are gonna talk about disasters. We've done industrial disasters. We've done hot air balloon disasters. We're gonna do just a bunch of just disasters. Things happening, buildings exploding of crazy things, steel melting, people. You name it, we're gonna talk about it. Crazy stuff. Then for small town murder, this is a weird one. We usually do a lot of, like, debunking. That's kind of a thing that we do of like, you know, dumb shit that people think. This week we are gonna do an episode on psychics that actually succeeded in what they were trying to do. Yeah, yeah. Psychics that found bodies and stuff like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And I don't know, the ones that were right.

[James Petregallo]

The ones that were right. We'll figure that out. So patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all of that. And you get a shout out at the end of the show too. Jimmy will mispronounce your name all to hell. But that's okay because he wants to get it right. It's the, you know, the feeling is there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a promise. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That said, it is disclaimer time. This is a comedy show, everybody. We're comedians. There also is murder that happens. And you might say, how do you mix comedy and true crime? Very easily. First of all, here's one thing we do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's pretty easy to do there. We kind of think that the humor aspect of it kind of maybe disarms it a little bit so it's not so creepy and so weird. And, you know, there's plenty of jokes to be made around stupid things. It's not the actual murder that's the funny part. So if that sounds good to you, wow, do you have a good story ahead of you if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever go together. I don't know, maybe the show isn't for you, but maybe it is. Either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time, everybody. Let's. Let's all sit back. What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are doing this. We're going to Montana this week.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To Geraldine, Montana.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Geraldine.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Geraldine. Geraldine. And this is in central Montana. It's about an hour and 10 minutes to great Falls. That's the closest. This place is the middle of nowhere. This is like. You don't want to like have your car break down out in this area. You are that area Screwed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really is sparse.

[James Petregallo]

It's really sparse. And it's about 5 hours and 10 minutes to hot Springs, Montana, which was our last episode a long time ago too. It was 70 episodes ago. 80 episodes ago. Episode 490, Hot Tub Horrors. Remember that? The guy in the hot tub with the other. That was a creepy one. So this is in Chateau County, Chouteau County. I don't know. It's French looking area code. It's got an eau at the end of it. So it's French. Yeah, it's hardcore French. I assume French trappers did this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't think the Shoshone speak that way.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, chateau area code 406 here. It was originally created just as a stop for. On the Milwaukee Railroad. That's the only reason why this is a place. And yeah, it was named for. And this happens so often. It was named for Almira Geraldine Rockefeller.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Who was the wife of William Rockefeller, who was the director of the railroad. So they were trying to kiss his ass and they named it after his daughter. Kiss everybody's ass, this county. By the way, the entire county only has 5,800 people in it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The whole county. So this is the middle of nowhere. The county seat is Fort Benton. The county was established in 1865 as one of the original nine counties of Montana. And it was named after Pierre Chouteau Jr. A fur trader. See? Knew it. I knew it was a fur trader who established a trading post that became Fort Benton, which was, you know, is the county seat here. So the Chateau county is the home to the Chippewa Cree tribe as well. And on the Rocky Boy Indian Reservation. Rocky Boy. This area contains part of the Lewis and Clark National Forest as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So it is a very pretty area if you want. If you want to see land go on forever kind of a thing. So reviews of this town, it's about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

As much history as America's got to offer.

[James Petregallo]

It's got a lot here now. Reviews of this Town. There are zero reviews of this town because there are very few people in this town. But what I found is literally the only establishment reviewable in the area because there is no restaurants, there's no anything in this town. I found the Sundown Motel, which is a nearby Stanford, which is another barely populated place a little bit down the road. Look at this place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It is a one story to expect it to be one story in the middle of a field. Look at that. I mean, there's nothing around it for miles and miles and miles. That's it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is it several cottages?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, it's. There's. I guess there's a couple of cabins out back or whatever, but it's just a row of that single row of motel. One story deal. It's interesting. By the way, here's a picture of the interior of the room.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. That is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I mean that's like the county.

[James Petregallo]

There's like elk on the. No, there's like elk printed on the bedspread. That's nice. That's very nice. But yeah, it looks. It looks like a. Like a jacked up hunting cabin basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Here are some reviews of this place because they're funny. Five out of five here from Kimberly. My husband and I were driving through Montana from Alaska to Iowa. That's a ride.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a ride, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That takes a minute. My husband called and booked our room. Contactless. Check in. That's nice. They have some technology at this. You would expect them to give you like a physical key, right? Like one of those big skeleton key looking things with a big tag on it. Yeah. With the room number hanging off it. They sent our room number and check in code via text. Our room was wonderful and cozy. The bed and pillows were comfortable and made for a good night's sleep. There was coffee and popcorn available. That's nice. A microwave, refrigerator and coffee maker in the room. We thoroughly enjoyed our stay and would without a doubt recommend this lovely little place to everyone. I wish there were more places like this along our journey.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I wish more people had standards as low as hers.

[James Petregallo]

That's fantastic. They gave me popcorn. Sold. That's all it takes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Being honest, I've stayed in some pretty nice hotels. Never had popcorn offered.

[James Petregallo]

I never like a double tree. You get those cookies, but that's it. Other than that. This next one. Five stars. This is crazy. If you ever get caught in a snowstorm between Great Falls and Lewiston, Montana, you know, like we all find ourselves from time to time. Brian's sundown Motel is the best. It meets all survival needs. That's good. Survival needs. You know, walls and the ceiling, the low.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The low ceiling.

[James Petregallo]

These people have wow packaged in fantastic attitude and helpfulness. They even brought me a care package of food that has lasted me three days. Seems above and beyond three days of food. I just picture some old lady coming out with like, here you go. Giving him like a picnic basket or something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Three days of food.

[James Petregallo]

Three days. That is fucking insane, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's incredible.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely wild. Okay, Jessica here. Three stars. Bit pricey for off season. We stopped here during a snowstorm and stayed for the night. Seems to be a common theme here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, feels like the snowstorms will get you.

[James Petregallo]

The room was standard and we were only allowed to use one bed in the room for $5 more. You were only allowed. I don't understand that. That's great. Go in your room, but only leave that other bed alone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If we have to make both beds tomorrow morning, we're charging you.

[James Petregallo]

That is wild. So they got a response from the owner. Hello there. Thank you for the review. There is new ownership here now, and we can honestly say a charge for bed use is an odd thing. Yeah, it is. We charge for the room, not what is being used inside of it is what they say. That's good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But how'd you like the three days worth of groceries?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's amazing. Oh, that's amazing. John gives one star. No accountability whatsoever from the manager. Plays super nice, but if something isn't working, it's your fault. No question, your fault. And the owner replies, normally I don't reply to negative reviews, but when all the reviews you have given are negative and your name has never stayed at our motel. My guess, this is a fake review or you have the wrong property. It would help everyone if you explained why it's a one star, especially since you haven't stayed with us before and we don't warrant one star reviews. But thank you for trying to hurt small businesses.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, and don't come for the first time.

[James Petregallo]

And I'm not gonna make you three. I'll make you one day worth of food, tops. Not three. Finally, Marvin. One star sucked. That's it. Just sucked. There's another review where this lady talks about how she got there late in the middle of the night and they had given her room away. And she was texting the manager from, like, outside the door. And the manager told her, nothing more I can do. Please leave the property. It's like, there's nothing around here. Nowhere to go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crazy people in this town, there's no vacancy.

[James Petregallo]

Bye. And then you're just out into the Montana has plenty of vacancy. That field is empty. Knock yourself out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look out back if you can see through the snowstorm.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. People in this town, population 202.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And that's just in this area. I mean if there's nobody here that's in like ranches that are spread out and farms and things like that. There's no real town center or anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Kinda awesome.

[James Petregallo]

It's kind of cool. If that's what you're looking for, you know, the middle of nowhere like that there is 52% male, 48% female. Because it's a lot of like ranching type work. Median age here is 60. Good cry getting old people. Holy shit. How much ranching are you doing?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's dying. This ain't gonna last much longer, man.

[James Petregallo]

Those kids gotta want to take over. It's about 48% of the people here are married. 26 and a half percent are single with children. Which is for a rural place like that. That's normally not like that race in this town, 99.1% white, 0.9% Hispanic. That's it. Nothing else? Yeah, nothing else. 86.3% religious.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

I guess while the snows are falling, you gotta pray to something. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thank God nobody's here.

[James Petregallo]

This is wild. 59.6% are Catholic.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

That's so strange. I mean there's only 202 people. So that could be like five families that are Catholic. Seems a lot. Seems like a lot. Unemployment rate is low here, which there's no people. So. Yeah. Who's looking for a goddamn job. And the median household income, also very low here. Rest of the country right now the average is about $69,000. Here it is $32,083.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's fixed income.

[James Petregallo]

That is. I mean it has to be. It's got to be a lot of Social Security. Because the average age is 60. So that makes sense. Cost of living here, 100 being regular and average in the rest of the country is 78.6, which is not bad. The housing is the low thing. Housing. Median home cost here, $227,100. What? Not too bad. But what you get for that is not too great. As we'll talk about in our coming up, if you. In case we've convinced you in our Geraldine Montana real estate report. Average two bedroom rental here is $860. I don't know how many rentals there is in a town like this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, very affordable.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Somebody's bunk house or something. Like, there's no apartment complexes or anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here's a trailer on the side of somebody's house.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe here's a four bedroom, two bath, 26, 38 square foot. There's no other way to put it. But it's a shack. It's a. It's a shit shack. You'd see this and go, oh, God. And keep it. Like, even if you. If you were like on E and whatever, you'd be like, I'm taking my chances with the wilderness. I'm gonna keep going. Like, you would not stop here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

See how these fumes treat me?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. There's absolutely no way you're not gonna be murdered here. There's literally just a big tire sitting in the yard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

Plywood on the door. The interior's a piece of shit. It's really not a good house. 125,000 bucks for this house. I mean, you have to just basically knock it down and rebuild it. No, no small lot. Just that Here is a three bedroom, two bath, 1902 square foot house. It's a basic house. It's just a little raised ranch. The listing lists it as situated in the outskirts of Geraldine, which is everything. It offers single level living and an expansive yard that showcases views of square Butte mountain. So there is that. They also say while some finishing touches are needed to complete this. Oh, it's got some problems here. There is a new flooring and fresh paint. 165 grand for that though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So not too bad. It's fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I love their advertising.

[James Petregallo]

Single level living.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you need. If you got. If you got a walker, this house is for you.

[James Petregallo]

Mobility problems. We got you problem here. Here's a three bedroom, three bath tea bowl for each and every B hole. 20. 28 square foot. It is on 20 acres.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's nice. They list it as having a beautiful yard that's landscaped with a nice shelter belt, wind break. That's how windy it is. Something to keep the wind from knocking you over. And an amazing garden pond with goldfish. Cool. That property has a well for the house and yard and a cistern for drinking water. I don't. So if Clint Eastwood rides up on a horse, you got him covered for.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He can water his horses.

[James Petregallo]

He can water his horses. 574,000 bucks for that, which is 20 acres. Yeah, it's a lot of acreage and that's not bad at all. But I mean, you are in the middle of. You got a system where you got a sister? Yeah, I don't know either. I picture a big ladle in a small well and you just take it out and sip from it. I have no clue. Things to do here. The Chateau County Fair sure found that. This is interesting. I'm looking for what they have here and they say they have carnivals and. Carnival and adventure zone. Bouncy houses, bumper boats, water slides, all this type of shit. But the main thing they're advertising in big letters with pictures is pig wrestling. Not shitting you. And this isn't, you know, you dress two pigs up in different costumes and give them entrance music and see who wins. This is people wrestling pigs in the mud. And not nude girls or anything. This is people not nude women. No tits are out. This is crazy. There's just teenagers covered in mud wrestling people wrestling pigs. It is Thursday, August 15th and it is $10 for adults and $5 for kids. Do you want to watch this? Tickets are available for pre purchase. You don't want it to sell out to get to big wrestling. Imagine if they got real wrestling up here. This place would be packed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They'd lose their mind.

[James Petregallo]

Look, I watched a boy wrestle a pig last week. So there's two big fellas going at it. It's going to be something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pig wrestling is what I call my twenties.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Oh God. Demolition derby also, I guess. I hope the pigs aren't involved in that. They're driving the car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Torture. That's abuse.

[James Petregallo]

It's just animal abuse. The old trail museum also is something else to do. And you can learn about the many histories of the Rocky Mountain front, explore ancient trails, dinosaur fossils and exhibits and also grizzly bears, large elk, waterfowl migrations and the unique geology of the Rocky Mountain front. Local meteorological phenomena as well as the color and cultural history of Chateau Montana, Teton county and the greater Rocky Mountain front region. There's all sorts of trails and shit like that. Trail hiker, hunter, angler, scenic driver. Wanted to explore and learn more about beautiful public lands. They should come here, find out is what they say here. You can. A local wanting to know more about the rich history of the area. A Montana dinosaur trail explorer. Apparently they have a Montana dinosaur trail. Whereas like they found a lot of fossils there. So you walk around and go this is where dinosaurs were. Sure. That's cool.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Footprints. We prove it.

[James Petregallo]

Neat. So crime rate in this town, what we are interested in, you'd figure it would be non existent because how could it? There's not even like A town square. If somebody vandalize your farm, like, what else can you do? Knock down your crops.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, but one tagging and all of a sudden it's dangerous as shit about.

[James Petregallo]

One person fucking spray paints their name on the side of a cow. It's over. It's all over.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One dude professing his love on an overpass and it's just done with. This is Memphis.

[James Petregallo]

This here is South Chicago. So property crime here is only about a quarter under the national average. So it's three quarters of the national average, which seems too high. And then violent, violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault is. I mean, just below the national average.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I don't know what they're doing here, and I don't know how it's happening, but they're doing something and it's fucking weird. That said, here we go. Let's talk about some murder here. Let's do it. Let's do this. All right. Let's go back in time a little bit to June of 1996. Sure. All right, so no cell phones yet. I mean, cell phones. If you wanted to have a giant thing, it's tough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's tough going.

[James Petregallo]

It's tough. This is pager time right here. This is everybody walking around with a pager and shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sweet.

[James Petregallo]

That's great. No social media on a pager. It's just fucking the number of a payphone with 911 after it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's awesome. Fascinating numbers.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. You can spell out boobs and all sorts of stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's fun for three. Yeah, you love them.

[James Petregallo]

So, June of 1996, let's talk about Dr. Brian Rain. R E I N Dr. Brian, here he is, born in 1965, he is the son of Robert and Shirley Raine. And he has a couple of sisters here, Charlene and Teresa. We'll come into everything later. He's born on Valentine's Day, 1965.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Romantic. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's Cupid himself here. He's born in Rocky Ford, Colorado, which, I'm not sure where that. Rocky Ford. Do you know that one?

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, never heard of it.

[James Petregallo]

You're a Colorado guy and he lived there. And in Sugar City, Colorado, as well. Sugar City. I don't know. The look on your face. They said Sugar City were like, nope, 404 fucking not found is what I got out of you. That was a look on your face. Searching, searching. Nope.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's gotta be some Western Slope rifle area shit. There's nothing over there.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's what it has to be. In 75, he moved to Scott City, Colorado.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where the fuck is this man living?

[James Petregallo]

It's wild, isn't it? Graduated from high school. They have a school there, apparently. In 1983, he attended Colby Community College in Kansas. Jesus. Colby Community College in Kansas, that's rough. For two years. And then Kansas State University for two years as well. So he started out in community college and, you know, worked.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's got to be where all those cities are. It's got to be all their towns near the Kansas line. It's got to be.

[James Petregallo]

It's probably over there. Yeah. Because those. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody gives a about that area, you know, that start.

[James Petregallo]

Once it gets flat, nobody cares anymore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Once you, Once you pass the airport, it may as well be Kansas.

[James Petregallo]

They don't care. Once the mountains are over, they're like, oh, you can have all of that. That's garbage land.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nothing. Nothing east of Denver is even mountainy. It's.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's what I mean. It's all flat.

[Jimmy Wissman]

East line of Denver is already flat.

[James Petregallo]

We go do shows in Denver and we'll talk and say to people, where are you from? And they're like, oh, about an hour and a half to the southeast. And we're like, what's it like out there? They're like, oh, it's weird, it's terrible. The weather's awful and crazy storms come in and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh, shit, that sounds.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It gets weird out there too.

[James Petregallo]

It does. So he then, after Kansas State University, he worked at the SORC Veterinary Clinic in Scott City. He's a vet, not like a human doctor.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Animal doctor here, maybe. Maybe they use him to check those pigs after they're done wrestling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Make sure they're fit for fighting.

[James Petregallo]

He could probably just check everybody. I think it's fine, you know, he knows. So in 1994, he moved to Geraldine, Montana, where he and his sister Charlene owned and operated Prairie's Edge Veterinary Services. And they also have an auxiliary office in Denton, Montana as well. So they have all this going on here. So at this point, not a bad life. He's a 30 year old veterinarian. I feel like you're gonna do very well with the ladies if you're a 30 year old veterinarian. I care for the puppies and you know, oh, man, that's a. This guy's gonna do well up here. But he goes to the middle of nowhere here and he ends up living in a. He rents a pretty isolated trailer near Geraldine, which doesn't really Fit in with the jet setting lifestyle of the rest of them. I'm 30, I'm a vet now. He's like, yeah, come to my rural trailer, huh?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, he must be used to this rural life. That must be. He's a rural through and through.

[James Petregallo]

He rented a trailer house located on a property owned by Richard and Marlene Prostman. Richard Prostman?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Dick Prostate Man. That's all I could say. I saw that. I first I misread it as Prostate man, and then I saw Richard and I'm like, that is crazy. He is Dick Prostate man and the woman who, the wife of this combo here, Marlene, helped Brian organize the clinic and get that set up and later became his office manager.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, okay.

[James Petregallo]

So people like him, obviously, if he can get people to do that. He opened up, the business started to grow, and then he opened up the satellite office in Denton, Montana. And yeah, things are unfolding for this guy. It's working.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's certainly getting it going.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's all working. He's had some relationships, obviously. Like I said, he's got to be popular with the ladies here. One woman, Jody Lee, she said that she had a close relationship with him all throughout 94 and 95, and the relationship became romantic in early 1996. Okay, okay. She also said though, that she suspected while they were together that he was dating another woman at this. During this time. I don't know how suspected. There's 200 people here. Go to the bar and if he shows up with her there it is. It would be so hard to sneak around in a town of 200 people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's got suspicions though, James. She's a very suspicious.

[James Petregallo]

Galaxy wild. Their relationship started to deteriorate by May of 1996 and apparently they had a. They planned a last minute trip to Yellowstone and she said that Brian called her and canceled her. Canceled it at the last minute. Like when he was supposed to come pick her up. He's like, no, we can't, we're not going. Never mind. So then she was like, yeah, there's gotta be somebody else here. So she went on the trip without him. Oh, yeah, look at that. I don't need you to go to Yellowstone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right, fuck it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, go. Went by herself. And while on the way back to town from Yellowstone, she stopped in Gardner and was talking to somebody and got offered a job and decided to take it. Wow, how weird is that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, you gotta figure though, if you're, if you go on a trip that you're supposed to take your Your better half are, you know, your other person. On.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And you don't. And they don't go. And then something like that happens that changes your life. You gotta accept it.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta accept it. Just on the weirdness of. Who would have thought I would stop for gas here or stop at this?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whatever, my friend.

[James Petregallo]

It's very weird. And also you're stopping at a rest stop and someone offers you a job. Has that ever happened to anybody out there in the world? So then she said after that she heard that Brian was dating another woman. And this was just like she takes the job and moves to Gardner and then starts hearing that he's like, with another woman. So he's like. She's like, okay. That's what was going on there, right? That's right. So her sister, Jennifer Lee's sister Jennifer basically made told everyone that she could tell that he was a womanizer. He's a womanizer, this one. He had two girlfriends or he's playing the field. He's a 30. He's a 30 year old vet. You kidding me? He's got a puppy under each fucking arm walking around. Chicks are flocking to him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got a big heart. He takes care of sick animals. Perhaps he's got such a big heart he just didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

[James Petregallo]

Also, maybe she needed her parvo shot. We don't know. We have no idea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

This show, Small Town Murder is brought to you by BetterHelp. Get yourself some therapy, everybody. Honestly here. We often hear about, you know, red flags that you should avoid. That's a lot of a thing. It's become a real phrase now. Real cliche. But why don't you focus also you look at like green flags and friends and partners look for good things as well. And maybe you're not sure what that looks like, though therapy can help you figure that out. What are positive things? What are the green flags? And then you can practice them in your relationship. It's absolutely a fact. And so honestly, we absolutely are huge advocates for this. It really, really helps. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable. It's convenient. They serve over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists. Wide ranges of specialties there. Here's the coolest part. You're not getting along with your therapist. You're just not feeling it. You can switch at any time, no extra charge. Wow. The thing is, they want you to get help. That's it. And you can do it with better help. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com smalltownmurder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Smalltown Murder now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So this woman's sister who calls him a womanizer here said she got a call from a stranger, a man they don't know each other personally, never met before. She never heard of this guy. But he called to try to track down contact information to discuss something with Brian.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

The thing he wanted to discuss with Brian was the fact that Brian, in his estimation, this man's was fucking his girlfriend.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a. That's a big thing to sort out.

[James Petregallo]

That's got to sort that out. So didn't like that. So now this woman who's been calling him a womanizer is like, see, I told you. Yeah, womanizer. That guy. So now these two are gossiping. The sister of Brian's ex girlfriend and the apparently current ex boyfriend of his current girlfriend are now gossiping about it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

At least the girl he's just fucking one of the.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, who knows? So this sister said that she told this guy that Brian dated at least three women in a short amount of time. He's a womanizer. And she does not like how he treats women. Just dropping them willy n. He's not beating them up or doing anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's just single and shit.

[James Petregallo]

They're just single. Yeah, that's what I'M saying this is just kind of the single life. She later said that she felt guilty for making those statements because she said, you know, because this is Montana. And they're like, you know, she said, quote, the opinion was, quote, not mine to give. You know, she's like, you know, hey, not for nothing is what she just said. Yeah, that's the Montana version of, you know, none of my fucking business. But let me tell you, I stuck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My nose where it doesn't belong.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So this lady in question that this man calling, the sister complaining about is a lady named Ann Wishman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Yes, it is. If you. If you switch your H. If you move the H over to where you are, it's the same letters. We can make Whisman out of it. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Making it wish.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's pretty fucking funny. It's you with a speech impediment.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, it's what everybody fucking.

[James Petregallo]

I'm Jimmy Wishman. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My entire fucking childhood.

[James Petregallo]

It's better than. Whoa. I don't even know how to say. How do you say it? What the hell is your last name?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I got Wishman, I got Weissman. I never. Nobody ever says Wisman.

[James Petregallo]

My favorite mispronunciation was a gym teacher who did it for a year and a half and called me Petraglio. For a year and a half. A year and a half. Like, not my name. Thank you, Patraglio. All right. I was just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm not fixing that shrug.

[James Petregallo]

I'm like, whatever. So my friends would be like, hey, Petraglio. They'd start calling me that, too. So that was fun. Now, Ann Wishman, she's born in 1974, so she's about nine years younger than Brian. Her family owns a farm near Geraldine. So on the outskirts of Geraldine, everything is outskirts of Geraldine because there is no real Geraldine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's no Geraldine.

[James Petregallo]

So apparently, sometime in 1996, here in May, they spent. Anne and Brian spent an evening together talking. And at the end of the night, after a night of just saying and spilling their guts to each other, they decided that they're going to talk to each other again later in the week. That's how this started.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This talking is so good. I'll talk to you later.

[James Petregallo]

So this is the best talking we've had in a while. So they talked a lot about her cat, probably, too. But still, it's a good talk. So this all started. Who's the guy she's with now that's calling to complain that she's having sex with Brian is a man named Thomas Jaraski. J, A R, A C Z E S K I. Whoa. Jresky.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm gonna say don't look at me.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Something Thomas. Let's go. Thomas on him. Tommy J. Tommy J. Tommy J was born in 1973. So he's right around Ann's age. And they got together when Ann was just barely 18 years old and, you know, he was 19 or whatever. That's when they started hooking up in 1992. So this relationship has been going on a while before Brian comes into the picture here. It's four years now. His family, the Thomas family, we'll just say the Jareskis, Tommy J's fam. They leased a farm in the Geraldine area. So same thing. He grew up on a farm in the area. So did she. And they both attended college in Bozeman. And that's how they met each other and started dating. Or they knew each other, but that's how they started dating. Was then. Now he's got a brother named Randy Jersey or whatever the fuck it is. And they lived in. They live on the farm, but in separate houses in the farm. There's separate building, tons of outbuildings. They live in two different ones, so they don't, you know, see each other's comings and goings. Exactly. That'll come in Handy later. So December 1995, after, you know, about three years of being together, Ann and Thomas here moved into an apartment together in Great Falls, an hour and 10 minutes away or whatever. But the problem is, as soon as they move in together, he really, really steps up his jealousy a lot. Yeah, Thomas starts getting real possessive of her and disapproved of any associations with other men. Basically, no talking to other guys. And he didn't like it when she went out with her friends either. You know, controlling. Obviously, I get the other men thing, you know, that could be like, hey, who's that guy? Or, you know, go tell your wife you have a ton of women friends, and they'll really be thrilled with you for that. So that's. That's just asking questions. But going out with her friends. What are you being a fucking. Don't be an asshole like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let her be out.

[James Petregallo]

Let her go out. She's just. If you don't let her go out or you do, you make her feel weird about it, she's just gonna want to fucking go out. And even more so you're not helping your situation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you're gonna force a dick down her throat. You better knock it off.

[James Petregallo]

Forcing dick guy. Don't so according to Ann, Thomas had a pretty good temper on him and would punch a wall or throw things around when he was angry. He's that correct.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He sounds great.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds like a lovely gentleman here. Immature is what it is. He doesn't apparently hit her, but he does punch holes in walls and throw shit around, which is not great either, obviously. That's pretty simple. It's not the same thing, but, you know, it's on the road, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's certainly. Yeah, it's certainly coming.

[James Petregallo]

It's on the road, too, here for sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Everybody's. Everybody's had a spectacular event where they punched something.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Kick a fucking door or some shit. But not the. Not the. Yeah, not all the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is spectacular cheese. If you got Swiss cheese holes all over, you got some anger issues, man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, absolutely. If you go in and see lots of holes in the drywall, you go, oh, boy, bad things have happened here. So June 2, 1996, that's when all of this is going down. Because late May is when Thomas called the other lady's sister to complain about Dr. Brian fucking his girlfriend. So June 2, 1996, this is after Ann and Brian have had their chat all night and they want to talk again. That was earlier in the week. So Ann calls Brian Rain and leaves a message for him. Leaves on the answering machine at the time. And so Brian returned the call.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And left a message for her because she wasn't home. Problem is, she lives with Thomas. And this isn't cell phone days. This is an answering machine with a blinking light in the middle of the living room. And whoever presses play is gonna hear it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So with a tiny little tape in there.

[James Petregallo]

Tiny little tape and a little blinky light and tiny little tape of evidence. Thomas got home before she did, like anybody would back in the day. Walked up to the answering machine, hit the Play button, and here's the voice of a guy saying, hey, and can't wait to hang out again. And. Yeah, like, you know, all that shit. So he is fucking pissed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which anybody would be a little pissed at. That. That's not even. That's not out of the realm of normal for being pissed at. Like I said, reverse that around and, you know, have your. Have your girlfriend or wife find that. It's not good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure. But that's not info for a wall puncher to hear.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. This is. Definitely. You're going to. You're going to make somebody's. Somebody who does drywall is going to profit from this, somebody's about to get another job for sure. So Thomas knew where Ann was. So he called her up and asked her, what the hell's going on?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, why is this guy calling?

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck? So she said, this guy Brian asked me out. So Thomas said that at that moment, he said, I knew right then she must have cheated on me. That was it. He jumped right to it. Thomas called Brian now because he has his number, because 96 is caller ID. So he knows the number. He calls Brian here and leaves a message for him saying, quote, I don't know what your intentions are, but they're gonna stop.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got your message.

[James Petregallo]

Got your message. Called my house, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thanks for calling.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here's my call.

[James Petregallo]

So the next day, Ann drove out to Great Falls to meet with Thomas. And Thomas said, listen, whatever happens, happens. Whatever has been passed in the past, I am going to change. I'm a changed man. I am the one for you. Just love me and don't go out with this other guy and everything's going to be better. The walls are going to be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My wall punching days are in my.

[James Petregallo]

Past walls will be pristine from now on. Everything is going to be fine. I swear. So he said, I don't want to break up. I want to make this work. So the next day, she broke up with him. She broke up with Thomas, not Brian.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is a four and a half year relationship now. Yeah, Done. So she immediately started hanging out with Brian. And I mean, to her credit, she broke up with the guy. It's not like she was like, oh, okay. And then, you know, led him on and all that. She said, no, I like this guy. Broken up, moving on. That's that you guys are fucking 23 or whatever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

What are you talking. You know. Yeah, that's what happens. So, yeah, she breaks up with him. Now. Thomas's sister, Sandy J. She was asked how Thomas was feeling after the breakup. And she said he just. He said he just keeps thinking it's a nightmare. And he thought that they had a good relationship. I don't know what happened. I thought everything was great. Thought everything was great. He said he realized that he probably should have done more with Ann and that he would like to take her to Chicago to see her family and all that good stuff. And she also said he just kept saying he was going to give her her space and maybe she'd come around.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the answer.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. That's it. That's all you can do. He said, I thought they had a good relationship. I should have done the things she wanted to do. I wish I had the chance. I'd do it now. I'd take her to see her family and do all that kind of thing. So that's a healthy reaction. Yeah, this is what I've done wrong. What have I done to cause this? Okay, this, this. A, B and C. And okay, maybe she'll come around. If not, I don't know. Now, later on, though, Sandy says, the sister, Sandy says that she describes a conversation that Thomas had with his mother while Sandy was present. His mother's name is Dorothy. And this is about a week after he and Ann broke up here. And she says, and I quote, yeah, and after they, Ann and Tom had broke up, he had gone home. And I just think within the first week of them breaking up, and mom was cooking hamburgers for supper. And Tom just went to his bedroom. And on his way back to the bedroom, he asked mom if she had a minute that they could talk. And then he told her he just couldn't handle it. And he said he felt like doing himself in. And mom said, oh, no, don't do that. You know, and he was just crying really hard. And by the end of the talk, he was feeling a lot better. He had no one to talk to about this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he internalized a lot of grief and didn't let it out.

[James Petregallo]

He needed to get a good cry out and had nobody to do. That's what it was. So he went to mom and did it. So that's. Mom will always listen to you. So that's good. So Dorothy and the sister both said that Thomas was crying and very upset and that the mother told him and the sister too, told him that he should probably maybe try to get professional help. Like, you really seem to be in a funk here. Maybe talk to somebody a couple times. Maybe they have some tricks, tools for you to be able to get over this type of shit. So he considers that and then obviously doesn't do anything like that. No, no, it's. That's the healthy thing to do. We're not doing that. I am going to stew in my room and punch holes in the wall, though. So Ann also talks about his breakup. The reaction here. She received a phone call and a letter from him shortly after they broke up. And here's a quote from her about those two things. Quote. Then he had wrote me a very long letter before, like a 25 page letter. What? And this is handwritten. Wow. That's a manuscript. That's a novella at that point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You could have a Structure and an arc and a story in that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You man. So there's got to be a lot.

[James Petregallo]

Of Shakespeare plays shorter than that. Yeah, it just keeps going to. I'm really sad. My mama says I should get help.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dr. Seuss taught many lessons, and way less.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. Way less time than that. No shit. She said, this was right after we broke up and went on and on about one. About. On and on and on about our relationship and how he wanted us to get back together and get married and have kids and do all this stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he was. Told me that I should save the letter and not do anything with it. And I asked because he might need to make. And I asked because he might need to make copies, and he's. Cause that kind of. It didn't make sense to me. And he goes, well, if I go to counseling, the counselor might need to have a copy of it and read it to see what's wrong with me or something like that. So this is like a. Yeah, he's written a manifesto, essentially. And he's like, I might need to take this to a therapist, probably. He should have saved the letter and just brought it to a therapist. Cut out the middle man here of her. Yeah, she doesn't need this at all. And I just said, okay, fine, whatever. And I said, well, that was the night that he was very upset and talking about killing himself. And I just said, well, maybe you should go talk to somebody now. Maybe you need. You know, maybe you need to go see a counselor right now. And. Because he'd talk and he'd be crying, and then I heard his dad knock on the door, and he goes, yes, I'm on the telephone, in a very normal voice. And then he'd start talking to me, and he was crying and upset.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So. Yeah, he cleared himself. No, I'm good, dad. Great. And then back to her in a weepy. Which people do, people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I mean, he doesn't want dad to hear it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Especially if you're, like, a Montana farmhand and you're with dad. Like, you don't want him to fucking. He's gonna come in here and beat the shit out of you, probably. What are you doing? Get out there and shoe a horse or something. Jesus Christ. Calling you names and shit. So. God forbid. So Thomas isn't taking this well at all. Let's just be realistic here. He's not taking it well?

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, he's.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, he's done healthy things so far. Yeah, he tried to get it back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, he's. He's doing nothing outwardly. That's gonna hurt his. Hurt his reputation. He's just doing the family.

[James Petregallo]

He's just. Yeah, he's just sad and telling people, and they're. They're. Everyone's thinking he's just gonna kind of. It'll all work itself out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He'll sad right now.

[James Petregallo]

He'll punch himself out. Yeah. And he's gonna be tired, and then that's that. He'll. He'll meet somebody else. Soon as he finds some other chick, he's gonna be fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You know, he's gonna find a country song that's gonna speak to that heart, and he's gonna play it 3,000 times, and off he goes, and then find.

[James Petregallo]

A girl with some nice boobs.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's what he's gonna do who knows that song.

[James Petregallo]

So during the month. During this June month, he makes numerous phone calls to Ann, to her family. When I say her family, I mean her mother, her brother, her father, sister, everybody and her friends, even. All of this to try to reestablish a relationship. He's just. It's crazy. So here's a rundown of some of these here and kind of what Thomas is up to. June 4, 1996, Thomas quits his job in Great Falls. So he is done. Done like he is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's imploding this whole life.

[James Petregallo]

He's having a. Yeah, that's what it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Everything reminds me of her.

[James Petregallo]

He was living in Great Falls with her. So now he's going back home, and he returns to the family farm in Geraldine. So the farm is seven to ten miles, by the way, from Brian. Dr. Brian's trailer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

It's in the area of there. On June 4, 1996, Thomas called up a woman named Trish Judeman, who is a close friend of Ann's, and he calls her up just to see if Ann has talked about their relationship with her. Oh, no. She's way too busy talking about this new guy's dick. Boy, she is excited about it. So. Wow. Thomas believed that it was this woman, Trish, who introduced Ann to Dr. Brian. So he wants to kind of know shit. This woman said yes. She got a call from Thomas who asked about their relationship. She later said, Trish said, I did know more about what was going on with Ann and Brian than I told Tom that I knew. But I didn't want to create more of a problem than there was already was. I didn't think it was smart to do that. Yeah, especially. You're not going to get in the middle of it. You go, I don't know shit. I don't know anything about it. Yeah, no clue. So Thomas made a phone call to Heather Buck, who was another close friend of Ann who was living in the state of Washington at the time. He's calling long distance. He's paying for this exorbitant amounts of money at the time. So this lady, Heather Buck, said that Thomas called her and asked numerous questions about Brian and Ann's relationship. She said she told Thomas that Brian had dated other girls around Geraldine and he had used them. That's what she was. That's what Thomas is telling the friend. Like, this guy's a womanizer. I talked to his, you know, ex's sister, and she said, womanizer. He dated all these girls around Geraldine and had used them. And it's not that he's jealous, see, he's just concerned that Dr. Brian is using Anne. And he's very concerned for Ann's well being. Yes. Using her for sex, which she is happy to take.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Maybe she's him, man.

[James Petregallo]

They're using each other. She used me. I used her. She used me. But neither one cared. We were getting our share. We're working on their night moves. Jimmy, what do you want from me? What am I supposed to do with that 60s?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chevy's mad comfortable back there.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. I feel like this is an appropriate environment for that song.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're certainly night moving.

[James Petregallo]

They're night moving like a motherfucker. So that's what happened. This woman, Heather Buck, described the conversation as quite bizarre. And she said she could not understand why Tom was calling her since they weren't friends. Like, literally, that was her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And talk some sense into her. She's being used.

[James Petregallo]

It's not like. Like they all hung out as a group and, you know, they all. She barely knew. This guy was like, I don't fucking know you. I don't care.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How did you know her? If you could keep her from being used?

[James Petregallo]

I'd appreciate it if you could completely dismiss your loyalty to a longtime friend and transfer it to a stranger. Maybe do some stuff for me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So apparently, after the phone call was over, they never spoke again. He didn't call back or bother. But Thomas also called Ann's sister Marie, who lived in Illinois. Again, this is costing him money.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he just quit his job. The man doesn't have any money.

[James Petregallo]

He doesn't have long distance money. He's got no LD funds at this point in time, none. So remember what a big deal a long distance call was pre Cell phones. When it was just all everything is included and everything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When my family. I mean, we were living in Arizona, my grandparents were living in Colorado. My mom would call them, like, once a month, and she'd be like, we gotta make it quick, but here goes, Jimmy. And I'd be like, hi, Grandma, how are you? And then, hurry up.

[James Petregallo]

Off, off, off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is costing me money. It's your sister's turn, dude.

[James Petregallo]

I told you about my grandmother with the October 10, 220 at 20 minutes, when it would go to another dollar, she would be like, oh, okay, I already gotta go now. She'd start getting panicky. Long distances.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm doing all right. How tall are you now? I think four, eight. Great to talk to you.

[James Petregallo]

All right, bye. She hangs up the phone. Well, I found out this is going on. Jimmy's 4 8. And they're too poor to talk on the phone for too long.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Jimmy, 16. 4 8. 4 8, I think he's not growing because mom doesn't have any money.

[James Petregallo]

Seems pretty sad there. Oh, God. So, yeah, she. This is fucking hilarious. So she calls, he calls Marie. Marie said, yes, she did receive a call from Thomas in June. This is about two weeks after the breakup. Marie, the sister, said she was surprised by the call because, again, not like they talked on their own all the time here. She said Thomas poured his heart out to her. Stop pouring your heart out to people. Good God. He's like, this is crazy. He's like a fucking John Cusack in a John Hughes movie. Like, this is wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's just so painful when you show how vulnerable you are.

[James Petregallo]

And it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not only does it not turn her on, it does the opposite.

[James Petregallo]

It does the opposite.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She gets the ick and never wants to see you again.

[James Petregallo]

No. And this Ann's just going to get calls from her friends and family going, this guy is pathetic. He just keeps calling and calling. That's not going to help.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hey, Anne, this guy called. Yeah, he called me, too. Was he crying to you, too? He sure was.

[James Petregallo]

He was. He told the sister that Brian is older and a womanizer. He's older than her and using her, don't you know, Taking advantage of her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now she said, well, I don't know this guy very well and neither does she. And he said, well, I'm concerned for her welfare. And the sister indicated Thomas told her he'd been in her house and read her diary since then. Oh, Tommy, why would you tell her sister that? Number one, he's like, here's from the shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tell her to come back to me.

[James Petregallo]

I also broke into her house and read her private shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Marie, the sister, said that Thomas told her that he had been by Brian's house late at night and found her vehicle there. He's like, I know. Because Marie's like, you don't even know if they're seeing each other. You have no idea what's going on. He's like, I do too. I broke in. I read her fucking diary. Then I drive past his house at 2 in the morning and guess whose car's outside?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Now who's crazy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

See, confessing to stop. It's not me.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not the crazy one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm the criminal.

[James Petregallo]

I'm a criminal. So according to Marie, Thomas told her that Rainn and Whisman, that Ann and Brian were sleeping. I've said Wisman way more in my life than Wishman. So it's going to come out like that. We're sleeping together. He's like, they're sleeping together? Yeah. Like adults. Who cares? This is not my concern who my sister fucks. So Marie said that Thomas told her he tried everything and he didn't know what else to do. Marie's like, I don't know. It's not me, and I live in Illinois. I don't care.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And you're scaring me with your crimes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is crazy, because Thomas is still calling Ann. He called her on June 5, and she told him she needed her space and asked him to leave her alone for a while and that she wasn't going to change her mind overnight. She's buying time. That's what that is. Maybe in two weeks he'll find somebody else and move on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Anne told that. Yep. Ann told Thomas that their breakup, that she said, this isn't a sudden thing. This has nothing to do with Brian. This has been coming for a long time. And these are just the events that pushed it over the cliff. That's all it is. So June 6, 1996, according to here, Thomas and then Ann as well, he called her in Geraldine, where she was staying with her family, and asked her to come to Great Falls for the weekend so they could spend some time together. Which the day before she tells you, leave me alone. Give me space. I don't want to be with you. I haven't wanted to be with you for a long time. Blah, blah, blah. The next day he goes, let's go away for the weekend. What do you say? No, she said she not gonna do it. Not happening. And that's that. And he also called her on Friday, June 7, and said, how about that weekend? And she said, still no, stupid. I will be knee deep in veterinarian penis by then. I am not. Won't be there. So Saturday morning, June 8, he calls her again. This is every day now. He's calling her since they broke up. And he calls her and said that he was dying to see her. I'm dying to see you. He said, I want to see you so bad. So they talked on the phone for a couple hours, apparently. And he kept saying that I want to come see you. I want to see her and see you. And she said, I don't want to see you. It's too soon. I told you to give me some space. You're calling me every day. So he said, all right, all right, you don't want to see me. You want your space? Okay, I'll give you your space. And then he showed up at her house. So this is not working. He showed up at the Wishman farm in Geraldine as Ann was getting ready to go to a dance. In Geraldine, I assume of the square variety. I can only imagine. I can only imagine. I'm not sure it wasn't like no Diggity playing in the background. I doubt. Try to think what was out in 96.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was either line or square. I'm sure of it.

[James Petregallo]

One of the two. Yeah, there you go. Oh, they were probably still Achy Breaky Hearton up there. It's about three years late, but shit, takes a long time to get to Montana. I just think it's gets there last. That Billy Ray boy, a handsome feller. So he shows up with a present for her. He said, I got a present for you. He said, let's go for a drive and have a drink. And she said, no, let's do some drinking and driving. That's what he said. Let's go for a drive and then get a drink. So he told her, she said no. And he said he wanted to go to. I want to go to town with you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, okay. That's nothing to say.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I want to go to town. So Ann said that Thomas had brought a bottle of liquor with him. And when she indicated finally that he realized she was not going to go for a drive with him, he just started drinking right there at the house, just in the yard. Start without you. So Ann asked him, could you please not drink here? Because I don't like. What are we doing?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm trying to make you jealous. See, I got my lips on it. Are you jealous?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, look at that. She likes it, too. And then he got upset and took off. Okay, all right. He left. So then Ann called Trish Judeman, her friend from before that he called, who was bartending in Geraldine, and told her that Thomas was upset and he's drinking. And if he comes to town, if he comes on into town, you go ahead and let Brian know to look out for him. These people need cell phones badly. Yeah, I mean, giving messages through the bartender.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And I'd love to say that it's small town in specific.

[James Petregallo]

It's not. It's just 1990.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, this is just. It's just what it is, man.

[James Petregallo]

You had to leave mess. You had to wonder where someone was, know their number, try to find them, and if they're not there, leave a message to, hey, you know. And people would actually deliver them, too. Cause it was an essential part of communication back then. So June 15, 1996, about a week goes by. Thomas encounters Anne and Geraldine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Runs into her, I'm sure by pure accident.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Obviously it wasn't on purpose.

[James Petregallo]

So Thomas, somehow, I guess in person, I don't know, he's a little more persuasive. He gets Ann to go for a ride in his truck so they could talk. Okay, just come for a ride. It's all I'm asking. Come for a ride.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Eventually you gotta cave. Just be like, I'm gonna have to sit him down and tell him no.

[James Petregallo]

He'S not getting it. So maybe she thinks maybe if a once and for all, if I can get it across to him, whatever. So she initially said no, but then figured that she'd go hang out with him, get it over with. He literally said, I'll get it over with. And then she thought, maybe he'll leave me alone after that. Maybe if I give him this little bit, he'll go, okay, fine. So as they're driving around, he then drives out of town toward the middle of nowhere and starts to really press on her to get back together. God damn it. And he's accusing her of. You were always just looking for somebody else to sleep with. That's what he keeps saying to her. You're always just looking. So she got angry and said, take me the fuck back to Geraldine. And he said, no. Not gonna do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

So she tried to jump from the moving truck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, it was that bad.

[James Petregallo]

It's that bad. She's like, I am the fuck out of here. Take me back. No. Take me back. No. And she said, all right, fuck you. I'm jumping out of the truck and will not be. She won't be told what to do. No, she won't be. She's gonna do what she wants to do. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a healthy, delicious item, Hero bread. And we're both trying to get healthier this new year. Jimmy had a eye opening, doctor's appointment and things like that. So we're trying to get healthier. And I'm telling you right now, this hero bread is a good step in this direction. It's delicious and it is really good for you and it's, it's really excellent. They have. The sliced bread is good. The bagels, the tortillas.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I know you've been, oh, they're terrific.

[James Petregallo]

Ranting about the tortillas. They're so good. With Herobred you can focus on your health goals and still indulge in the soft, fluffy experience you love, but guilt free. I really love the little Hawaiian rolls too. They're so good. They're so good. The Hawaiian rolls, they're legit. They're fluffy. They're exactly how you want them to be. You'd never know it's low carb and high fiber bread. From the texture you get the soft, fluffy experience you know and love with your savory breakfast sandwich. Late night grilled cheese taco Tuesday. Do it. No compromises, just flavor. Ultra low net carbs, zero grams of sugar, high in fiber. It's fantastic. Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use the code. Small Town Murder at checkout. That's Small Town Murder at H e r O Co. And now back to the show. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you all sorts of good stuff about Chime. That's what I'm talking about. There's so many extra fees you have to pay in life. Everything. You go to the airline, there's an extra ticket on that, there's extra fees, every fees, hotels fees, all this type of stuff. We're trying to make progress and the next thing you know, here comes another fee coming at you and it's more money than you expected. And your whole math is thrown off and it's awful. Learn [e-mail] Smalltown Murder Chime is great with that stuff. I mean, you can't beat if your things are a little tight, especially around the holidays or after the holidays. You need that money a couple days early or you go grocery shopping. You got a car Payment due. There's so many things that don't cross over exactly how you want them to cross over. Make progress toward a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in 2 minutes at Chime.com SmallTownMurder that's Chime.com SmallTown Murder feels like progress. Banking services and debit cards provided by Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members. FDIC Spot Me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees. Apply it out of network ATMs.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Sono Bello. You know, the most known secret with celebrities and influencers and all these famous people is so many of them have had lightbow, they've had lipo. Whether it's a little touch up here or a total makeover, nobody has a perfect body. That's the thing. They may look like it on tv, but there's things that help that absolutely Lipo now has changed. And Sono Bello's been at the forefront with using LAL technology and getting those beautiful and natural outcomes for each person looking real natural, our friends at Sono Bello are offering their best deal. You're now included in their winter savings event. But appointments are limited, so please get on this. Sonobello doctors are masters in micro laser fat removal, a brilliant technique that removes stubborn fat permanently wherever your problem areas are. Tummy, love handles, thighs, arms. It's gone in one comfortable visit. Eating healthy and workouts are great. Keep doing that. But if you want to lose that stubborn fat in one visit, check out Sono Bello Save Big during their winter savings eventually. Schedule your free consultation [e-mail] SmallTownMurder that's S O N O B E L L O.com SmallTownMurder now back to the show. So he grabbed her and held her from jumping out and then gunned. It went even faster.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Don't do that.

[James Petregallo]

You want to jump out. It's gonna hurt. Let me tell you something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's gonna be at 70.

[James Petregallo]

It's gonna be something. So he kept pressing her about getting back together. And according to him, she just would not give in at all. Just. Which is weird. You're holding her hostage right now while going 75 miles a fucking hour weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If. If sane conversations weren't gonna do it, this isn't gonna do it.

[James Petregallo]

If Can I buy you a drink? Won't do it, right? Yeah. You know, if you're gonna jump, it's gonna. You're gonna die. Is not the way to get it done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somebody not accepting a free drink is a certain go fuck yourself.

[James Petregallo]

They are not interested, just move on. So he eventually said, okay, fine, and turned around. He eventually. She was like a stone wall. And he was like, well, this isn't working. So he turned around and went back to Gerald, to Geraldine and dropped her off. She told everybody when she got back, she didn't feel safe the way he was acting. She didn't want to be alone that night either because she thought he would come back. So she asked Brian if she could stay at his place that night. See what you did there, Thomas?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He drove her right into his arms.

[James Petregallo]

You might as well have inserted his penis into her. Like it's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That guide it.

[James Petregallo]

You might as well have said, hold on guys, I got this. Don't worry about it. There you go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You brought the Astro Glide, man.

[James Petregallo]

Like the third in a porn. Like it's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You brought baby oil to a Diddy party. Knock it off.

[James Petregallo]

That's what happened, man. So June 16th, 1996, 1:30 in the morning. Now it's. Yeah, now it's gonna get out of regular daytime hours here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now it's criminal shit.

[James Petregallo]

Criminal time. Totally. Thomas is moving into night watchman hours here. He's got a different thing going on. Tribe o'clock here, 1:30. So Thomas figured out that no one was home at the Wishman farm. Nobody there. And he went into her house and went into her bedroom. And this isn't the apartment they shared or where. This is her family's home. This is breaking and entering. This is burglary. This is not good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure, it's her bedroom, but it's her family. It's her parents place. That's fucking weird.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. This is great. And some farmer dad's not gonna pop out with a shotgun either. Is pretty ballsy of you. So this is when he searched around and found her diary again. Because he had read it when they were in the house together. But now they're here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now let's see if she counted the veins on his cock and wrote it.

[James Petregallo]

Down how good his dick is. I'm almost here about. And in this it's just her talking about how great Brian is. Not good. Oh, man. In there he read that she had, quote, met the man of her dreams. Brian.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And it's not Thomas. Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

And not only that, she couldn't wait. And wanted to spend the rest of her life with him. He's like, fuck out in the fucking. Oh, my God. And she also wrote that she did not want anything to do with Thomas. And also she didn't want Thomas to find out that she was so into Brian because she was afraid of what he might do to himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So I'm going to write it all down. Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. So that's at 1:30am By 3:22am he's calling Brian's house and asking for her in the 3:22am so Brian told him that Ann wasn't there. So Thomas then called Anne's apartment, okay, the one in Great Falls. And she didn't answer the phone there either. So Thomas then said, well, I can't let this just fucking sit in the middle of the night. Gets in his. His truck and drives him. Drives to Brian's trailer to speak to Brian and ask him if Ann is there. Dude, stop doing all of this. He needs a friend is what he needs. Not a mom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not a sister. Not a brother. He needs a buddy that's gonna go, bro, what the fuck are you doing, man? Yeah, fuck that shit. No. Hell no. I know this girl. She's got lots of friends. You don't need this. This is fucking. Yo, bro, you're crazy. You look crazy. You know that, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He needs more than one to say.

[James Petregallo]

It, though, because you won't believe him. You need four guys around you just fucking pinballing you with insults. That's what you need. Maybe some mockery, some derision. That way you go, okay, fine. Oh, I'm that friend.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, I mean. I mean, you had a friend that did this driving to.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, yes. I'm the guy. For some reason, I'm the guy that everyone tells everything to. I don't know why they. Since I was a small child, they tell me all of their personal bullshit. I have had friends of mine show up knocking at my door 4:00 in the morning with tears flying down their eyes. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? And then they're telling me all this shit about their girl. I don't want to know this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I had a friend that I was like, the fourth call, because everybody was like, dude, no. So he finally called me and was like, would you go over to her house? Like, no, I'm not going to her house. He goes, well, at least go over and get my click dvd.

[James Petregallo]

I was like, and Adam Sandler dvd. Your click dvd?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Adam Sandler movie.

[James Petregallo]

You want that while you're there, grab my copy of Spanglish too, if you could. The fuck out. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jack and Jones, too, bro.

[James Petregallo]

What are you doing? Oh, my God. That's the craziest request ever. Go over there, fucking look around, grab my copy of 50 First Dates and fucking jet, bro. Come back. It's crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He literally told me, I don't want her to watch it, man.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, my God. Like, as soon as you walked out, she was like, ha, ha. I got his Clique dvd. I win. And popped it right in the DVD player. Oh, my God.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Watching it without me, I was like, I assure you, she already threw that shit away.

[James Petregallo]

She Frisbee'd that shit across the parking lot of the apartment complex immediately.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Funniest request I've ever asked.

[James Petregallo]

That's the greatest fucking dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. Holy shit. Click dvd. Oh, God. So Thomas shows up looking for his Click DVD at Brian's house. Knocks on the door. Brian tells him, she ain't here, bro. Yeah, and her car's not there either. So you kind of knew that to begin with. Yeah. When you pulled up, you didn't see her car, did you? So Thomas goes, okay. And then leaves.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

I hope that Brian was like. And fuck off, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And don't come back.

[James Petregallo]

Don't come back here. Jesus Christ. So I will treat you like a horse with a broken leg and put you down.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How's this thing, though? What if he is a womanizer and that woman's not there, but another one is?

[James Petregallo]

Another chick's there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck, dude? Get out of here.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking up my life, cramping my style. I'm drying out over here. Come on. So at 6am this was at 3:30 in the morning, he's over at the house. At 6am he calls Brian again. But this time he doesn't say he's Thomas. He pretends to be Anne's brother, Carl.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, for heaven.

[James Petregallo]

Carl Wishman. So. Jesus Christ. And he tells Brian, I really need to speak with my sister. If I'm Brian, I'm like, this is too much trouble. I've been with this girl two weeks. I can't even get a decent night's sleep. This is crazy. I'm dumping this jig.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All I've done is had a long night talk with her. And now I got this guy every three hours calling me.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck somebody else. So Ann gets on the phone because she was there hiding. So Ann gets on the phone and as soon as she hears the voice, she knows it's not her brother. She knows it's Thomas. So she said that immediately. Basically, she got on the phone, said, hello, and Thomas immediately started with just a tirade of calling her a tramp and a slut and a whore and everything else.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You tramp, slut, whore, every loose woman word. What a piece of shit.

[James Petregallo]

So she hung up the phone. She hung up on him, obviously. So obviously he called back, clearly spoke to her again, told her that now she's not a tramp and a whore and a slut. Or maybe she is in his mind, but he only called her that because he's worried about her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, okay.

[James Petregallo]

I don't want you to be those things. Yeah. He said, I called your house at the farm there, and there wasn't any answers. So I went looking in town for you and I couldn't find you. And I also read your journal and your diary, so I didn't know what was going on here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I did my own welfare check, didn't find you. So I started reading. Maybe you wrote down where you're going.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe. No shit. By the way, that call to the Marie Gardner lady who was like, yeah, I don't know. That was a 34 minute phone call. These are not two minute conversations. It is a lot to get him off the phone. That's the sister who lives in Chicago. So that's a long distance, 34 minute call he put out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a woman that's concerned for her sister's safety because otherwise you just hang up on this fucking guy.

[James Petregallo]

I guess so, yeah. Well, back then, if someone called you long distance, it was so expensive that no matter what they had to say, you felt like you owed it to them to listen because they were paying for this. Literally. Someone could be calling you names and you're like, this is costing them like three bucks a minute. This isn't, you know, this is crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll just let him go.

[James Petregallo]

Let him go off his chest if.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He'S willing to pay this much for it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. So June 18, 1996. Now Brian shows up for work at his clinic and gets out of his car and he's ready to start another day of helping the animals out. And he discovers that a large rock has been thrown through his front window of his clinic. So we kind of. We get that here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not a lot of mystery behind that one.

[James Petregallo]

Not a lot of mystery. Probably doubt it's kids. So June 21, 1996, Ann and her brother, now, Carl, actual Carl, not fake Carl, on the phone, fake Phone Carl. Ann and her brother and Carl's girlfriend were about to drive to geraldine at approximately 10:30pm So I guess Carl said that he and Ann were going to Geraldine and that Ann was in her vehicle and Carl was in his with his girlfriend. So they were in two separate cars. Now, while this was going on, Carl said he noticed a vehicle with its lights on, quote, just sitting there. And he said that. That this vehicle waited till we left the driveway. Now, he says Carl says he recognized it as Thomas in one of his dad's pickups.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, keep in mind, he's in a separate car than Ann, so they're not talking about this. No cell phones. So Ann said that they were driving down their lane when she observed a vehicle approaching at a slow speed. She said she didn't recognize the vehicle and kept on driving to Geraldine. She thought it was somebody lost or something. But Carl said, no, fuck that. That was Thomas in one of his dad's pickup trucks. Oh, boy. Just not his. So they get to the bar, Carl and Ann and Carl's girlfriend. Carl said they went to a bar in Geraldine. And while at the bar, he noticed that Thomas was continuously driving up and down the street in front of the bar, just driving back and forth. Why? Either go in or go home. What are you driving back and forth for? Maybe you'll see them come out and act like you ran into him, I guess. Is that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I guess that's what it is. Yeah. You can't go in. You're gonna cause a scene.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's going to be a scene. Yeah. So Carl said that when he left the bar, he saw Thomas drive by, so he followed Thomas, and they met up at an intersection where Carl got out of his car and told Thomas to fucking quit calling my sister and quit following her around. God damn it. Carl then asked Thomas, where you going? And Thomas said that he's going home. They said, good, fucking stay there. Leave us alone. Did he go home?

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Let's find out. Well, he did go home, but he didn't stay there. He just switched vehicles. So he's just switched cars.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck, man. He's so exhausted.

[James Petregallo]

I was just gonna say, how exhausted are you right now? Just hearing about. Imagine living through this. No, he hasn't slept in days. I don't know what his. I don't know when this man fucking sleeps. It's crazy. So he went back, switched vehicles, then went back to Geraldine and waited outside the bar. So Ann comes out, and she said that she exited the bar with Brian and observed Thomas Sitting on a bench in front of the bar. Dude, if I'm Brian, I'm hands up and I'm going, this is too much, guys.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's your problem. Lady.

[James Petregallo]

We've been going out for two weeks. Like it's not like, oh, I'll like, like we're just dating. This is way too much drama for this here. And it's not her fault. But no, still, if you're an outsider, you're like, I don't want any part of this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Also you'd kind of feel like anything that happens to her is going to be your fault. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

At some point you got to take some accountability to like calm the down and let, let that situation go away before you start.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Interfering in it.

[James Petregallo]

I don't want to be seen with you for a while.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I mean granted, granted this a month we should be, we should, we should have fucking some decorum and not treat people like this. Obviously.

[James Petregallo]

Well, obviously stalking would be. Is frowned upon in our, in our society.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In the event that people can't follow the fucking rules. Maybe let them handle it first before you pour fucking piss fire piss gas on this fire.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, gas piss. That's not good. That's the worst kind of piss. June 24, 1996. Carl tells Thomas again to stop bothering. I'm sorry. Ann tells Thomas, stop bothering my family and friends because he continuously was doing that. Carl, the brother said that they received telephone calls where nobody would talk and they'd hang up the hang up calls. Carl also said that if he answered the phone they would get about two calls per night if he was the one answering the phone. But if Ann answered the phone, they would receive 10 calls on night of hang ups fest around. I just want her to hear her voice. Yeah, what good is that? What good is that doing you? So just seeing if she's home, I guess. Not out with Brian, but when it's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A sausage fest, I'm not calling.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, keep it out of that. July 2, 1996. A good month has gone by here. It's about 10:30pm here and Ann and her brother John, a different brother, are sitting on their porch watching a lightning storm in the distance. Which is nice. Lot of distance to watch shit in.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you can see one coming from miles.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck. Yeah. So the house lights were off. They were just watching like that. And they observed lights approaching their farm on the country road.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Coming down or county road. Sorry. So Ann said she turned on some house lights and waited for the vehicle to drive into her yard. She suspected it was Thomas. So after a period of time, she and her brother drove down their lane to look for the vehicle because it never popped up at the house. So she's like, where the fuck did it go now? And found. And said they found an ATV sitting in the middle of the road with its neutral lights on and nobody around. It's running. A running ATV in the middle of the road with lights on that didn't just fucking fall from the sky. I doubt someone had to drive it there. So that's interesting. Now her brother gets on the ATV and drives it to the house. Fuck it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is ours now. We own this.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, it's ours. So Ann said that they then woke up her brother Carl, who then drove around the area looking for anybody who could.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somebody on foot.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, somebody on foot. Carl then returned to the house and called up Randy, who is Thomas's brother, Randy Jareski here, and asked if Thomas and their atv or is Thomas and your ATV home by any chance? Is Thomas sitting there?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There. Yeah. So the Ann said a short time later that Thomas answered the questions for them. Because this guy said, I don't fucking know. I don't live in the same thing with him. So I don't know what to tell you here. A short while later, Thomas emerges, covered in mud, walking through their yard toward the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what he's been doing crawling around in the mud or what here. So Thomas said he was going to the farm, quote, just hoping to catch a glimpse of her in the window. Whoa. Wow. He apparently was apologetic at this point. Didn't get nasty. Was apologetic and again, talked about killing himself. He needs to talk to somebody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's. Yeah, He's.

[James Petregallo]

This is too much. You can't do this for a month. Yeah. So Carl heard Thomas state that if he could not have Ann, he didn't want to live. If I can't have you, I don't want to live anymore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If I can't have you, I want nobody else.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Yeah, I don't want nobody, baby. So they've moved on from night moves to fucking disco music. Perfect. We're going on through the years here. So Ann indicated that they talked for some time, and Carl offered to give Thomas a ride home because he felt bad for him. He was like, this guy's just a heap of a mess. Tears going through the mud on his face. That's a mess.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Embarrassing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. That's terrible. So immediately after all this happened, Carl gets in the car to Drive him home. He and calls Brian up here and tells her what the hell happened? Jesus Christ. We saw this ATV and then he, you know, emerges covered in mud like John Goodman in fucking Raising Arizona. It was weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tears made us, made them. Made the mud look like.

[James Petregallo]

Look like makeup. Running.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Made it look like Schwarzenegger in Platoon. Is it Platoon? No, it's.

[James Petregallo]

It's fucking Predator.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Predator. That's it.

[James Petregallo]

Platoon is Charlie Sheen, Oliver Stone movie. Tom Barringer and Willem Dafoe. Yeah, so that's fucking funny. So Brian told then said that, listen, I can sympathize with you because at about 3:30am Thomas came to my house last night too, claiming his. Claiming his truck had broken down and I need to use the telephone. So you were just happened to be coincidentally driving past my house when your truck broke down again?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, the excuses he's making are just. It's just. It's stalking and he's giving shit excuses that are like obvious that you're fucking stalking.

[James Petregallo]

He's not a great stalker. He's being found all the time and then has bad excuses for it. Not a good stalker. Fuck. So Brian told her that he let Thomas come in and use the telephone. And he said he returned to bed. So he goes, yeah, use the phone, let yourself out. And then went back to bed. Would you let this guy just unsupervised wander your house while you went and laid down in bed?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Isn't he a drywall puncher? This guy's scary as shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm gonna just make sure this weirdo is out of my house. Anyway, so at that point Ann told her that she was concerned and told him she was concerned for him, meaning Brian, and said, I don't know why Thomas would be on the road that passes your house other than to drive by your house like. Like, let's be honest here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So my truck broke down while stalking. Can I use your phone?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And Brian is just not. He doesn't seem real street smart at all. Like, he doesn't seem real or whatever farm smart or any of that shit. He just seems kind of book smart and doesn't really get shit here. I guess maybe that's why he deals with animals and not people. Maybe he's better with animals.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Animals don't speak English.

[James Petregallo]

So Ann told him, listen, you bet. Do me a favor and keep a shotgun next to your bed just in case.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So he's. Brian said that I'm not going to do anything to Thomas unless he did something to my clinic Again, if he tries to Fuck with my clinic again, then we'll talk about it. But otherwise I'm going to try to leave it alone and hope he just punches himself out. I bought him two sheets of drywall and I said, listen, go to town, buddy. And just stood him up out in the yard against a tree.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He can come between me and a girl, but the vet, the clinic's how I get more girls.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's where all the girls are, the source of girls. So the weekend of July 6th and 7th, here. All right, so post 4th of July, 1996, Brian stayed at Ann's apartment in Great Falls. Ann said they received calls on July 6, right before 11pm and 11:30pm and then again at about 2:30am that morning they got calls. They didn't answer the calls, believing they were from Thomas. So Ann said that approximately 3am that morning the phone rang again and Brian finally said, you gotta answer it. We can't have peace. Tell him to fuck off at least. And you know, maybe he won't call back, but otherwise he's just gonna call all fucking night.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Too much.

[James Petregallo]

So Ann picked up the phone and she said she could hear someone on the line. However, no one's speaking. It's a hang up. It's one of those again. Now, later on we find out Thomas's phone records show that calls were made from his residence to the apartment at 2:27 and 2:49am so July 8th, Ann receives a letter from Thomas where it's completely different tone now. It's all conciliatory. He's sorry for humiliating her. Very sorry about that. My actions have been unforgivable. Very sorry. But he doesn't say, so I'm gonna let you go and you live your life and whatever he says. But I really do want to get back together and get married and have kids with you. So that's why I did it. And I can't help it because I want to marry. July 9, 1996. Ann spends the night at Brian's trailer here. And Ann said at 2:30am she saw headlights driving into the driveway. The vehicle then departed quickly though before she could, like, get a read on what vehicle it was. All she saw was the headlights. So Thomas would admit later and to anyone who would listen, that he often would drive to Brian's residence in the early morning hours just to see if Ann's car was there. Trish, now, remember Trish, a friend. She said that based on the actions of Thomas and her discussions with Thomas, she was very concerned for the safety of Ann and Brian very concerned. She gave this statement, quote, I called Carl that night and I told Carl's the brother and told him that I was a little concerned because I thought that Tom wasn't acting rational, that I was afraid for Ann being at Brian's house and not telling someone where she was. As far as what I thought he would do, I have no idea. I mean, I don't know that he would do something. But I did feel very concerned, very concerned. I told Brian that same night I called and Carl told me that Ann was at Brian's house. And I called over there. Brian answers the phone and I told him to watch his back. I really felt that Tom was not handling it very good. Then I spoke with Ann and I told her the same thing. I said, no matter what time you come home, whether you call me or you call Carl, which she never did. I said, tell somebody that you're on the road. If it's the middle of the night and you're by yourself, let someone know where you are. Just to check in all over town to make sure she hasn't been kidnapped and thrown in a gulch. So that's fun. July 12th. Now, Marlene Proston, remember, that's the landlord and one of the landlord, Dickie, prostate man's wife, she works at the vet clinic that Brian has here. She gets a call from Brian at about 4pm and he said he was coming home from Bozeman that evening. He was in Bozeman. For some reason, Marlene recalled receiving a call after Brian had called from a young man asking for Brian. Now, she told the young man that called that she didn't know who the fuck it was, that Brian is returning from Bozeman this evening. So, you know, call back later or some shit, you know. By the way, guy calling, it was obviously Thomas.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Obviously, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So fake Carl, Fake Carl, Fake Carl. So I love this. He's just fake Carl from now on. So Thomas and Randy, now the brothers here, the Jureschi brothers, they said they worked until approximately 7:30pm on July 12, 1996. Then they returned to the farm near Geraldine where they lived. Randy did not stay at the farm that night, though. Randy left the farm at about 8:30 and went to Stanford, which is where that motel was where we did the review, and did not return home until about 4:30am well, there's handing out popcorn like hotcakes over there. How do you go home? Popcorn and coffee are flowing. So Thomas was alone at the farm, at the family farm in those early morning, you know, late Night hours here. Thomas said that he was there the whole night. He'll tell everybody I was there all night. All night. He did call Brian's residence at approximately 9:45pm that night, but hung up when Brian answered the phone, obviously, so. So he knows Brian's home. Now, Ann said that night she was at her apartment in Great Falls with her friend Kelly Hines. And Kelly confirmed that she was with her at the apartment. Ann said at about 9:30pm she received a hang up call. So Thomas was doing his hang up. 9:30, it's time for my hang ups call Brian. Just find out where everybody's at. Okay, Good deal. I feel like he has like a little map with pin that he, you know, pins that he puts on it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He knows where everybody is.

[James Petregallo]

Or like a police map, an old school one that like lights up, you know what I mean? There she is. And like she blinks as she moves. So yeah, she made that. She said she immediately called Thomas back because she thought it was him. She's like, I'm not taking this shit. Called him back and got his answering machine. Okay. Now Thomas here says he didn't make the phone call later on, however, phone records show that he made the phone call at 9:30pm all right. And it was made from Randy's residence, by the way. He went over to his brother's house to do it. So Ann didn't believe that Brian was gonna return from the conference until the next day. She thought that Brian would be in Bozeman the whole time. Again, just a simple text. If we had cell phones. That evening, Ann suggested that her friend Hines there call Brian's residence so she could hear Brian's voice on his answering machine and hear how nice it was. You should call my boyfriend and just hear his voice. It's so nice. You're gonna love it. So that's how much she likes him. She just wants her friend to hear his voice.

[Jimmy Wissman]

His voice smells cute.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. So she does. She places the call at about 10:15pm and Brian answers the phone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So Anne's like, oh my God, you're there. Great. So Ann said, hey, have you been getting hang up phone calls? Because Ann said that. And then Brian said, yeah, I had quite a few at the clinic and I just had one at my house here. So they spoke until about 10:40pm When Brian said he had to go. He said, I gotta go. And I guess according to Ann, she said goodbye and he just hung up. He said, I have to go. And she was saying goodbye as he Hung up. And she said that he's never abruptly terminated a call like that. He always says, okay, goodbye. And it's a new love. They're going back and forth. Goodbye. No, you hang up. No, you hang up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, I love you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And he just. Instead she's like, goodbye. And he was quick. That's it. All right. So during the phone call with Brian and told Brian she was interested in obtaining a temporary restraining order against Thomas for both of them. We should both get this. And so, yeah, that phone call. End abrupt. Ended abruptly. Now introduce Bill Spevisek. He lived about a mile from Brian's trailer here. He said at about dusk that night on Friday, July 12, he heard what he believed to be two shots fired. When asked if he had previously heard gunfire from a distance, he said, yes, quite a few times. And it, as far as my recollection, it was not a rifle. It'd be more like a short pistol shot or, you know, more of a pop instead of a rap sound or whatever. These are hunters and ranchers and farmers. They know what guns sound like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They can hear, identify hunters and ranchers can identify them like a. Like a young kid in Baltimore.

[James Petregallo]

I was just gonna. I was just gonna say. Or a kid in Baltimore. Abso fucking lutely.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's crazy how that bridges the gap.

[James Petregallo]

It bridges everything, man. They know. So that was going on there. This guy also said he recalled seeing an unidentified male driving a dark green ATV in the direction of Brian's trailer. Randy owns a black and fluorescent green atv and it's the same ATV that was at the house at that time, the same one from July 2nd. So by the way, when we say dusk, you're thinking, what time you thinking?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Around 6pm?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. This is July way up north. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So it's 3pm Dusk begins.

[James Petregallo]

No way late. Remember in the summer here? Remember in the 4th of July, we had to wait till 9:30. This is the middle of July. Dusk didn't begin until approximately 10:01pm Whoa. And lasted between 33 and 48 minutes. It's not dark till 11pm These people hate daylight saving. That is wild. Holy shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They are saving the shit out of it.

[James Petregallo]

So much to save. In the winter though, it's dark at 3 o'clock. So that's the problem. So yeah, what is it? 1:30. Shit. Pitch black out there. So that's the time period after the phone calls and all that kind of thing. Richard and Marlene, the landlords and friends of his of Brian said that Brian's trailer was always Left open. And that Brian didn't even have a key to the trailer. Really didn't even have a key. Just. It's wide open.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just.

[James Petregallo]

It's wide open all the time. That's how these people live up here. Ann also said when she went over to Brian's trailer on Friday, July 12, to Moa's yard, she went over to Moa's lawn. Hey, sweetheart, I'm out of town at a conference. My lawn's a little shaggy. You want to grab the mower and come on over or what? What are we doing?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't. I can't just let it go for four days. I'm gonna need somebody to come by.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. When she was there, she said his trailer was open as well. And she said all the time she's been there, his trailer has never been locked. And we know it's not locked because he doesn't have a key. He's not gonna lock it. So Richard Prostman here, Dickie Prostate man, said that on Friday, July 12, he observed the lights, like we said, he observed lights on in Brian's trailer shortly after dark, which is after 11pm indicating that he was home, as Richard said, that the. The lights that had been. The lights had been off while Brian was in Bozeman. So he didn't leave them on the whole time. So he said that he and his wife left for Laurel, Montana, between 8am and 9am the next morning, Saturday, July 13. And they arrived home back from Laurel at about 6pm that night on July 13. That's a Saturday. So at around 7pm they left for Great Falls and spent the night with their daughter. There's a lot of driving around these people are doing. So then Richard said they returned to their home between 9:30am and 9:45pm on Sunday, July 14. And he called Brian and found the line was busy at his house. Couldn't get a hold of him. Busy. Which busy signal happened back then? Nothing you can do about it. So then and said that she and Brian had made tentative plans to see each other Saturday evening, July 13th. Ann called him at about 9pm on July 13th, and he never answered, so. Or it was busy. I'm sorry. So she kept calling until 1am over and over and over again, and it was always busy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So she's like, what the fuck?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's spinning a yarn tonight.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is why he must be really on one. So this is interesting. So apparently, the day of that week, earlier Wednesday, July 10, before Brian left for Bozeman, he had talked to Richard Prossman. And Brian was asking him questions if he knew anything about Thomas and shit like that. So Prostman said that Brian told him that Thomas had come to his house one night at 3am and asked to use the phone because his vehicle was disabled or whatever. And Prostman said that Brian told him he didn't ever heard a vehicle enter or leave the area. So he doesn't know even where the vehicle was. So July 14, 1996 is the Sunday. Okay, Richard Prossman, he can't get ahold of Brian, so it's still busy. Has he been on the phone for two days?

[Jimmy Wissman]

This guy's really chit chatting.

[James Petregallo]

So 10am on this Sunday morning, he goes over to Brian's trailer, knocks on the door, no answer. But his car's there, so he just goes in. And right there on the kitchen floor there is Brian, dead as fucking could be, lying on his back here. He's lying on the floor on his back with his legs crossed near the ankle. And near his left hand is his. Brian's own.357 Magnum.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Him.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, near his left hand there. So they immediately obviously called 911. He's very dead. Dickie Prostate man said, I just kind of panicked. He said, I may have checked for a pulse. I don't even know. But he didn't look alive kind of thing. He said, yeah, he's checked his eyes and they were glassy. He said there was blood everywhere and he saw a gun near him. So he was like, oh, I think I know what happened here. He said he didn't see any of the injuries from the shots at the time. So he said he drove the mile to his house and yelled for his wife to call 911, telling her that Brian shot himself. He's like, brian shot himself. Brian shot himself. Call 911. So he and his wife drove back down to the trailer after she made the call. They go traipse around the crime scene a little bit more. She went inside and yelled, he didn't shoot himself. He's been in a fight. Something bad happened. She went in and looked at everything like Richard was just like, holy shit. Didn't expect to see this, and took off. She went in knowing what she was gonna see and looking at it like a detective, like, trying to figure it out. So the cops show up, and this is when it really gets messy. Okay? So the investigators arrive and they observe. A handset to the telephone was under Brian's left hand off the hook. And he's got the Gun in his right hand. He wore a button up outer shirt. Brian did. The outer shirt was unbuttoned, exposing a T shirt underneath. T shirt with a dress shirt over it. The outer shirt was torn. Brian suffered two gunshot wounds to his right arm. That's not a normal suicide attempt, Right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Kicking his own ass.

[James Petregallo]

And one to his right anterior chest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. Tore his own shirt, shot himself three times.

[James Petregallo]

Boom, boom, boom. Fuck it. Can't take it anymore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the forensic pathologist determined that the. That the later wound to the chest which was near a contact wound, was the death shot there, obviously. They also noted an abrasion located in the mid forehead and a second abrasion and the bridge of his nose.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Been in a fight?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they also noted his right eye was swollen and he had a contusion behind his right ear. They take the gun in. The.357 Magnum by his hand is the gun that fired the bullets that killed him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So there. This is a weird crime scene. Now back to the crime scene. Investigators reviewed the crime scene and based on the location of the bullet holes, the spatter and the droplets, which won't be there very long as we'll talk about, they concluded that Brian had gone out to the back steps of his trailer where he confronted his assailant. One of Brian's shoes was located near the back door. And blood was also located on the sidewalk near the black. Near the back door. They further concluded that a struggle ensued and that this, whoever did this shot Brian twice in the right arm. As Brian attempted to retreat to the trailer. They believe that the assailant grabbed his outer shirt, ripping the shirt, and then shot him in the chest. Brian then retreated to the kitchen and attempted to use the telephone and died in the kitchen. While he's trying to probably call for help.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get help. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, okay. This is a crime scene that there's a lot of different parts to it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And it's very important to keep all this shit pristine. There's going to be trace evidence here, all this type of shit. But so what they do is here's Douglas Williams, who's with the sheriff department at the time. He's the guy who's supposed to be in charge of this shit. But he's away at a conference, a training conference at the time. So there's other cops that are in charge that aren't normally in charge of this type of shit. And by the way, they haven't had a death like a murder, a suspicious death like this in 19 years in this Town in this area, most of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The people on the police force didn't even see that one.

[James Petregallo]

Have never seen a murder before or anything that's close to it. Now, this guy, Douglas Williams, who's supposed to be in charge here, he says that they have a, quote, unwritten policy with crime scene. First of all, all crime scene policies need to be written.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So basically, no policy at all or.

[James Petregallo]

Too much of a policy? One of the two. Because we'll find out this is too much.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If it's unwritten, then we don't have one.

[James Petregallo]

Not a policy. Well, they have an unwritten policy regarding the cleanup of bloody scenes. Okay. And that is that. All right. Well, basically what happens is, I'll tell you in a second here, the deputies in the local coroner spent a few hours just fucking trampling this crime scene. In this kitchen. They take about a dozen photos, which isn't enough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

12.

[James Petregallo]

12. You could do that just with the blood spots outside. Nevermind everything else. Holes in the walls. And in the process, what they do is after they take the photos, they just start mopping the fucking scene up. They don't document shit. They don't swab for DNA, they don't dust for prints because the family started showing up and they didn't want the family. That's the unwritten rule, is they didn't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Want family see it.

[James Petregallo]

They don't let families see a bloody crime scene. So they literally got a bottle of 409 and started destroying every piece of physical evidence in the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, that shit. Wow. That shit's good.

[James Petregallo]

It's great. You spray it on a scorpion and it dies. That's awesome. That shit is the best.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That shit. You can smell somebody's cleaned.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, you know, when the 409's been out. Holy shit. So not only that, the sheriff's deputy here, they cleaned up the blood under his body and everything. Removed his body. This. This should have. They should have kept it exactly the way it was for two fucking days probably to process all this shit or at least for a few hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's several scenes at this house.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. Here's the other thing. There was bloody towels nearby and the phone that was between Brian's head and the wall. They didn't want the family to see them, so they picked them up, put them in a garbage bag and threw them out. In the garbage? Just threw them out. They just took evidence and threw it in a dumpster. Oh, get rid of that stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't see it. It's too bad.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. Now one of the cops said all he did was, quote, clean up a small area of congealed blood with 409 cleaner because the coroner told him to. The coroner's not even a fucking doctor, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The coroner's not a crime scene investigator.

[James Petregallo]

No medical examiner is a doctor. A coroner can be any, literally anybody. It can be the pizza guy who got the job as coroner, right? They go, he's dead. That's what they do. So. Oh my God. So anyway, he said, yeah, the guy told me to. And the later photos of the sick of the scene, though, suggest that it wasn't a little area. He cleaned up a fucking huge area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of the whole room.

[James Petregallo]

My Christ. This is crazy. So this is crucial evidence fucking gone? Yeah, gone. So they said, well, when would you clean up the crime scene? What's the unwritten policy? What the fuck? This makes no sense. And the cops said there were certain times we would clean it up. Okay, great. That's what I'm saying. What are they when it's most fucking detrimental to the investigation?

[Jimmy Wissman]

One of the sacred hours that we clean up crime scenes.

[James Petregallo]

Well, we do it mornings usually. If we get there then, you know, got an egg sandwich in your stomach. It's nice. So he went on to say, though, that in 98 or 2000, he doesn't remember what year, though his office stopped that practice. And they've been, you know, processing crime scenes correctly, then using a crime scene cleaning service afterwards like a normal police department would, rather than just going, hey, Bobby, go ahead and get that 409 from the bathroom under the sinking. This is a mess in here. We don't want people to see this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's a Scrub Daddy under the sink.

[James Petregallo]

You could go on. Great. Between the Scrub Daddy and the Swiffer, I feel like we get this place in tip top shape, Right? So they also find out that nothing was taken from the trailer including valuables, jewelry and two rifles, as well as the.357. So interesting. Now they're saying they think he killed himself. The police are saying, looks like a suicide.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Boy, did he hate himself. He really took it out on him, to be honest.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, these cops are fucking dumb.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, see, you don't understand depression like we do around here. When you're real mad at yourself, it's sad. You really do. You do a number on yourself.

[James Petregallo]

This is May. Besides the mayor coming in and trampling in that one episode, this might be the worst crime scene I've ever heard in my entire life. Literally even the 30s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shot himself multiple times and really Crosses himself.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck, man. Really? I mean, right in the arm. I want to feel it first. Punching himself, hitting himself like fucking Ed Norton in fight club. So they the undersheriff told Brian's grandparents and two other family members that Brian's death was a suicide, even though he hadn't even been to the crime scene yet. Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about a very cool place, Thrive Market. Yes, we are both looking to get into the healthy swing this year. The problem is I don't, I don't know what's in everything and I don't know if even I'm qualified to even read the labels to know if that's good or that's bad. There's chemicals and things and there's things floating around. I don't know what I'm doing out there. One of my favorite features I know you were talking to me about this is the Healthy Swap scanner in the Thrive Market app. Yeah, it's simple. You scan any item and it'll instantly suggest a cleaner, healthier grocery alternative, which is amazing. That's great. Thrive Market also takes the guesswork out of finding these safe, healthy foods. For example, like, I'm trying to get my protein intake up for energy. I'm always moving around. I need stuff. And I love that you can filter their site by the high protein options. It's very cool. And you can personalize this portion and you can put filters on it and get ready. You should be ready for a junk free start to 2025. Get ready for it and head to thrivemarket.com Smalltown Murder and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V E market.com Smalltown Murder thrivemarket.com SmalltownMurder now back to the show. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our stylish friends at. That's right, let's go. Elevate your styles, people. Get it going. Look good out there and you can do it now without breaking your wallet, without breaking the bank. Because at Quint's, you can get high end, versatile pieces at prices we can all actually afford, which is very nice. You want to get good stuff that lasts and it's good. And they have quality stuff that's very affordable. And you can do like we did, upgrading our stuff here. Well, still being a very reasonable price. Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics. And finishes. It's all quality stuff. You're gonna love it, Trust us. It looks good. And I've got the leather jacket. It's a very high quality item. Real nice soft leather. Jimmy's got his linen pants, he's rocking. Come on, be like us. Be fashionable. Get in there with quints. Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quince.comsmalltown murder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I-N C E.comsmalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comsmalltown murder now back to the show. Okay, so the grandmother said, you're full of it. My grandson would never kill himself. I know him. He's not suicidal. He's not even sad. He's super happy. He's knee deep in poon, man. What are you doing?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's that, for Christ's sake.

[James Petregallo]

He gets to play with animals all day and then be knee deep in poon. That's a great life he's living. I love to do that. Pet dogs all day. Jesus Christ. Now John Seabrant said that he'd been a friend of Brian's for about 10 years starting in Kansas. He said that he helped Brian move to Montana in June of 1994. And he said that indeed Brian did own a 357 caliber short barreled, nickel plated revolver.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He told the cops that Brian hated the gun. Didn't like it at all, just hated it. Too loud, too much. And he'd been trying to sell it or trade it for a long time and it's just been sitting there. So he said that Brian generally kept the gun in his bedroom. But it was possible the gun could have been left in plain sight in his house or vehicle as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anywhere.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, could be anywhere. They live on a farm, in a trailer, who knows? So another one here, a guy named Rick Porter. Rick Porter's a customer of Brian's. He said they became friends after that. He said that he had seen the hand tooled leather gun case containing Brian's initials. He said that's what held the.357. So he had that and Brian had offered to sell it to him. He said, you want to buy it? And he said, no, I'm good right there. He said he last saw the gun though on the seat of Brian's car in December of 95. So the gun does move around. It's not just on a shelf up in the closet. So according to people that knew Brian well. They were not aware of anyone who was angry with Brian or would have had any reason to kill him other than Thomas. I mean, he's been saying this guy's been stalking him, but otherwise he's happy. So they look into the whereabouts of numerous friends and associates of Brian here. Investigators determined that all of these people that are everybody, his sister, his family, Richard and Marlene Prostman, Larry and Laurie Hagenbach, who we'll talk about at the end of this in a while here, Ann Wishman, John Sebrent, Jody Thorson and Penny Porter all had alibis for the time period that Brian was killed. And all their alibis were corroborated. They didn't do it. They were not able to locate a single witness who could control confirm Thomas's whereabouts because, remember, they got home from work, his brother went out till four in the morning and he said he didn't go anywhere. Thomas did. But no one was there to see that. So that's that. So there's no. They have no alibi witnesses for him. So they have to bring him in and talk to him. So they bring him in for a formal interview on July 15. And he said, yeah, I was devastated by the breakup. Yeah, absolutely. He said, I was, quote, I was really hurt because it was almost like we were married, you know, so going went out four and a half years and living with each other for the last six months and, you know, felt like we were married. He told investigators that he knew that she wasn't being straight up with him and quote, because she had told me Brian wasn't the reason that she dumped me. So he said that he knew over time that Brian was the big reason she dumped me. During his interview, he also told investigators he was home alone on the evening of July 12th. And so he was asked why he didn't pick up a call from ann at approximately 9:30. And he said, I may have been at Randy's residence, which is exactly where he was making those phone calls. So we know that for a fact in talking to him, he makes these statements. He said he never went to the rain house, the rain residence on July 2 to seek assistance with his vehicle. Even though he definitely did. Yeah, he made phone calls from his house and everything. The last time he was present at Brian's trailer was on the morning of June 16, 1996, a month ago, when he went to the back door and asked to see Wishman. That was the early morning, 6am he shows up. He denied he'd ever been inside the trailer he said he was unaware of Ann's whereabouts that night, that this all happened and that approximately 9pm the night of the murder, he injured his back while working on his truck at the family farm. Because he had injuries and they were like, well, how'd you hurt yourself fighting a veterinarian? And he was like, no, no, of course not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

68 Ford out back.

[James Petregallo]

God, no. Yeah. He said that he called Brian at approximately 9:45, July 12, 1996, but hung up when he answered the telephone. And he just remained at his family farm until 8am with his back hurt. He said that's when he and Randy returned to the fields to work. Later that day, he said his back hurt so bad that he went to Great Falls and received treatment at a hospital. So fucked up. So they were talking to everybody and the hospital and everything, they were able to determine that he did suffer an injury to his back that night. And he stated in an interview he fell from his truck that evening and he received medical assistance for it. Medical records say that he was in the emergency room on July 13, 1996. According to the hospital records, the diagnosis was a myofascial strain of LS spine. So that's a condition. It's chronic pain in the muscle. He strained his back. That's all, you know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Threw his back out. Doctor said, I need a backyatomy. So he's got a. That happens when you're fighting with people, apparently. So he has the funeral. They have a funeral for Brian, obviously. And they had. And people were singing. I'm going to say this right now. Don't let anyone sing at my funeral, please. It just makes everyone uncomfortable and it's not cool.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just don't do it like single people singing. Like somebody walking up to the podium saying, and now I'm going to sing Amazing Grace.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. They had an organist and two different people. They sang Precious Lord, Take My Hand in the Garden and Amazing Grace. Obviously you got to have to stand. Yeah. Can't have Christmas without Jingle Bells. What are we doing here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Christmas to Mariah's thing.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. So there's memorial set up to Brian. Is the Brian A. Rain Memorial Fund in care of Q Banks of Geraldine will be distributed to the KSU Veterinarian Fund and the Livestock Judging Department.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

I only put this in here to go. What the fuck is that? Is that a class you take to livestock judge?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know, man.

[James Petregallo]

But he really know all the standards. Yeah. To judge the shit, you'd have to know all the standards. You have to Know, this animal should have this, and they should have a bit of color here, and this should be like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So I guess it is fascinating to see a dog judge pick a dog up by its tail and its face and then be like, his hindquarters suck.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you're out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a bad dog.

[James Petregallo]

Piece of shit dog. Dog looks great. Wagging its tail, looking happy and shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's a good dog.

[James Petregallo]

So July 8th night, or July 18th, 1996. Two days later, three days later, because Thomas went home, they bring him back in for a second interview. And this is. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna poke around a little more here. And he indicated the following. He said. Thomas said he'd never been in or around the area of the shelter belt located near the rain trailer. Shelter belt is the wind thing we.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Were talking about earlier.

[James Petregallo]

He had only been at the rain residence once when he went to the back door. Never been inside. He said that again after he made those declarations. They said, well, we have evidence that puts you right in the shelter belt. So then he said, okay, I lied. Sorry, my bad. When confronted with facts, he just gives it up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You got.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I said, yeah, I lied. He goes, yeah, I lied when I previously said that I didn't do that. And he said, quote, okay, well, this is something that I didn't tell you guys the first time that I talked to you, which terrible right away, but it was something that you and Mike asked me about, is that this is what the story was, is that my truck supposedly broke down. Supposedly. And I went and asked to use Brian's phone. Do you recall that? He said, this is all hypothetical. You asked that. He said, and I walked to Brian's through the shelter belt. And I told him. I asked him if I could use the phone. So I. I was in the trailer. That's something I didn't tell you guys before, and I don't know why I didn't. But, you know, so they're like, okay. He said, I only went there to see if she was there, though. That's all I wanted. He said, yes, I. My truck wasn't broken down. I did come through the shelter belt. And I didn't actually make a telephone call. I just faked it. Yeah. Did one of those. So he said he'd been there. They said that would there be any reason for any evidence to be tracked down to him on a weapon or any components of a weapon, anything, your fingerprints, blood, anything, DNA gonna be on any of these weapons? And he said, I don't believe so. Of course, I was right at that table where the phone was at. So if there's something to do with that. But I don't recall seeing a weapon, know, when I was there, you know. But I mean, as far as. If you're talking like maybe bullets or something like that that could have been lying on the table, I might have had my hand on there. I might have just touched bullets that were hanging around, you know, when I stopped for two minutes, there might be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ammo with my fingerprints on it.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, he said. But no, I don't. You know, when I was there, I never did recall seeing one. This is a terrible job he's doing right now. So. Holy shit. So that is the 18th of July 18th, like we said. And he said he denied calling her on the evening of July 12th. But he did admit that he called Brian at 9:45. But I didn't make the call right before that to Anne. That wasn't me. So fucking weird. So phone records for Randy shows that on 9:45, someone called Ann's Great Falls residence. From the telephone at Randy's house. He admitted that he was the only person at the farm from 8:30 to 9:30am he further admitted that he would call Brian, quote, just to annoy him on occasion by tapping on the phone with his fingers when he answered the phone, just to annoy him. He admitted that many of the phone calls were to see if Brian and Ann were together. That's why he was calling. Okay, so they're waiting for the lab to come back with shit. For what? I don't know. It's all destroyed and ruined and corrupted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And everything else coming back with nothing.

[James Petregallo]

Coming back with shit but rumor and speculation in the town. Imagine this small of a place down at the feed store. Everyone is hanging around talking about nothing else. Fucking, period. This is the first local murder in 19 years and wow. The county attorney said everybody is kind of on edge. They'd like this case to be solved. They don't know whether the person's still out there running around. Yeah, they said they're conducting interviews, tracking down leads. They have 89 items submitted to the crime lab and they said that might be the key evidence. Maybe that'll come back with something. They said. We do have suspects, but we need the physical evidence before we can walk into court. You destroyed the crime scene. What the fuck are you talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nothing there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they said they're proceeding cautiously because of the intense local scrutiny. They don't want to fuck it up. Basically they said that a lot of the early interviews where they were just getting alibis for people who knew him, became fuel for gossip. People were saying, oh, that guy had to talk to the cops. He must have did it. Or that lady talked to the cops. She must have did it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I saved him with a click.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. Who had the click? So he said, we noticed we'd be working on something and talking to someone. And next morning, the gossip mill had them arrested and convicted. Did you see? They went to the police. They arrested him for the murder. Meanwhile, the guy's making fucking eggs in his kitchen. It's fine. So. July 24, 1996. Time has gone by now. DCI agents led a ground search of the vicinity surrounding the trailer. They're just doing this now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

A member of the search team found a gun case to Brian's.357 Magnum in the tall grass about 85ft from the trailer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. It's got his initials on it.

[James Petregallo]

They examined a shelter belt northwest of Rain's trailer and discovered that there was an area in the shelter belt where it appeared someone had stood and trampled the grass. In that area? Yes. According to investigators, from that location in the shelter belt, you can see the back door to Rain's trailer and not be seen. It's the perfect hiding, stalking spot. Basically, they believe that the person who handled the gun case hid in the shelter belt, walked to the rear door of the trailer, confronted him, fought him, shot him, killed him, walked away. There you go. Neighbors want it solved yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. The. Some local residents have even accused neighbors of involvement in the murder. Like they're turning on each other. That's. How crazy is it? I bet you did it. No, I bet you did it. That's what the mayor said. The mayor said that? Yeah. The mayor said people are turning on each other. We gotta solve this. Yesterday, he said the mayor went on to say, people really close to Brian want this case solved. At the same time, it's disrupting a certain number of families. But members of Brian's family say they've been in close contact with the sheriff's office and are satisfied with the progress of the investigation. They said the sister, Charlene, who helped him out with the vet, said they'd been working on this case day and night. They're going to do what they have to to get the crime solved. That's nice. Here. They said that the vet service will remain closed until they can find another vet to fill it in. So Therehere we go. August 1990. Six weeks have gone By. They finally searched Thomas's house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now.

[James Petregallo]

Now they search his house. You know, plenty of time. We got tons of. He ain't getting any debtor, so it's fine. So they do this. They search it, and they find a letter to Ann. The letter was written to ann prior to July 12, 1996, 6th and the death. This is what he writes to Anne and. But I don't think he gave it to her. Quote, I really hope that Brian doesn't hurt you too bad, but maybe that's a lesson you'll just have to go through. I sure haven't heard many good things about him. Tammy told me that he goes through women left and right and has girlfriends in other towns. I talked to Jody Thorson about him, and she really hates his guts. She called him a bastard and said that he cheated on her. She said that he's a real good at manipulating younger women and that he uses people. Different people that I've talked to said that it won't last long between you two because he'll either get tired of you or cheat on you, whichever comes first. Then he said the first I knew you slept with him was June 15, but Jody told me that Glenda had told her that you were seen leaving together June 8, which was only four days after you dumped me and had slept with him. So what? What does any of this matter at this point?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very irrelevant.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I am real hurt that you dumped me, but I'm even more hurt that you started seeing someone else right away and jumped right into bed with them. Okay, so that is August of 1996. Rest of 96 goes by nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, fuck.

[James Petregallo]

All of 97 goes by, oh, no. No progress. They fucked this crime scene up so bad, they have to figure this out. April 4, 1998, they want to talk to him again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. During this time, he again denied making the call to Ann on July 12 and stated he did not know where Ann was that night. He did admit to calling Ann's telephone in the early morning hours of July 7 and July 11. He stated that on those occasions, he set his alarm clock to wake him after the bars closed so he could check in on them. He set an alarm for bar closing time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you're setting your alarm, then you're sleeping just fine. This is a stay asleep man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, stalking is a job for this guy. He sets his alarm, he's like, oh, I almost. I'm almost late.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's some fomo, man.

[James Petregallo]

I got to punch in. This is crazy. Yeah, that's a crazy Amount of fomo, so. Wow. He also conceded that he had driven by Brian's trailer on many occasions, other than those he acknowledged in previous interviews. He said that he'd used different vehicles, including the atv in order to avoid suspicion by Brian and his neighbors and Ann. Many of those drive by incidents occurred on weekends. He also admitted on one occasion he drove into Rain's driveway one early morning, then left. That mean that seems to be the one that they were talking about where a car pulled up and then it never came. During the April 4, 1996 interview, he was again asked if he may have touched the weapon or a gun case. They said, and you said you may have touched some cartridges or something that was on the table? And he said, yeah, that's where his phone was located, was on the table. And the only light he had on in the house was his bedroom light, so it was dark. So I said there's a possibility that just, just leaning his hand on the table, he might have grabbed some, some ammo, you know, that goes. So they said, is there any way that you could have sat your, your hand down on, on a gun case or touched it or rubbed up against it? And he said, well, yeah, of course. He said, there's a possibility. Like I said, it was dark and I could have, you know, leaned up against the table while I was on the phone. So that's a possibility.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they said, you're under arrest. I think you're under arrest, sir. This is. I may have touched all the things that were at the crime scene with my fingerprints on them. It's not a good excuse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I get real easy with things.

[James Petregallo]

This is weird. Real touchy feely. It's just how I am sensory. I have a gut problem, I need to touch it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I treat the world like a children's book. Sometimes there's some velvet, I gotta touch it.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, he's, he's going to jail. Charged with murder and burglary. And they. This is the. One of the under sheriffs here said we were hit with a lot of gossip and rumors and knew early on we couldn't say anything. We knew it was going to be a complex case. We had a lot of folks to look at. Did you? I don't know, man, if, if someone's stalking you, I feel like that's the one to clear first. A stalker feels like they, he just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thought we have to check Everybody in town.

[James Petregallo]

200 people, you could.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then when we run out of people, then we got to start looking out of town. Yeah, we're gonna check the whole country?

[James Petregallo]

We could be. He could be in Philly for all we know. So they said that he was viewed as suspiciously early on. But he said. I wouldn't say. He's always been a prime suspect. No. Then how fucking stupid are you people? Are you kidding me? I just described him stalking. They said the defendant's relationship with Wishman was hardly ideal. He was possessive of her and disapproved of her associations with other men. On one occasion, the defendant threatened to kill other men that she might date. Okay. Now, family members of Brian's praised the investigators. I don't know how I'd have been like, you dumb fucks are lucky. You arrested somebody. You fucked up the crime scene. It's been a year, two years almost. You people are useless. Fuck you. I don't know why they're so grateful. You fucked everything up and you finally did the right thing. Sorry. Not really fucking doing that. She said, I know they've been working on this a long, long time. That's the sister.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's true.

[James Petregallo]

That's Brian's mother. Yeah. They said they chased a lot of leads and rumors. I give them credit for being persistent and not giving up. They wouldn't have had to if they wouldn't have cleaned the goddamn crime scene up. So. Wow. So his parents live in Scott City, Kansas. Their son moved to Geraldine then, and he said the sister was the partner in the business. They're talking about that investigators kept close contact with the family as the months rolled by. Brian's mom said, they've been very good. They told us as much as they could, which was nothing. They acted like it was a big mystery rather than, listen, we know who did it, but we can't really arrest him now because we fucked some stuff up. They didn't tell her that. She also said that she doesn't know why he was murdered. She said, I'm not sure we'll ever understand the why. It was just so senseless.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. That's true.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The sheriff said he spent considerable amount of time with Thomas family members after the arrests, many of whom are longtime residents. And the sheriff said the Juarecki family are just darn good folks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Are they?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Besides that. Murderer 1.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I just hope people have some compassion for his family, too. And Brian's mother said, there's still a wait here. They have to wait a lot. They said, we're thankful that there's been an arrest, but happy there's two families that have been destroyed by this. The suspects and ours can't be happy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're being way too logical. They gotta. They gotta get some police work done.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Get in there and fucking do something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Too much, I guess. It's not logical. They're putting too much human emotion into this. They need to fucking. Yeah, some police work.

[James Petregallo]

It's in a town of 200 people, everything, you know everybody. So everything is like a personal thought. Well, I don't want to offend, you know, Paul, if I do this, it doesn't fucking matter. That's why it's hard to do shit in a small town. And everybody knows Everybody then. September 25, 1998, this is, what, five months after the arrest? Charges are dropped.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Pardon? Okay. Judge John Warner ruled that certain evidence obtained through the use of a bloodhound could not be used. That's the gun case with his fingerprints on it. According to the press at the time, the prosecution was unable to properly document the dog's work on the case to the judge's satisfaction. So the following month, the prosecutors have to drop the charge. An assistant with the Montana Attorney General's office here, Prosecution Service Bureau, said, I didn't feel we had a strong enough case. If I don't believe we can win a case, I'm ethically required to have it dismissed. It's Montana, and you're not gonna have an expensive trial. They don't spend a lot on that kind of shit in the rural area. So that's going to be the county's whole court budget for the year. So you better make sure that that motherfucker's guilty. So that was 1990. Eight years go by. Sixteen years to be exact.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Sixteen fucking years. Now, in the meantime, Thomas has gotten married, had two sons with his wife, and moved to South Dakota. Oh, whole new life he's got left the state. Whole new Life. But in 2014, they rearrest him because he wasn't acquitted. He just had the charges dropped. He was arrested at his home in South Dakota. His wife probably didn't even know this shit was going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he's not telling her.

[James Petregallo]

They showed up at his house in South Dakota on April 30, and that was that. This is one of the communications people for the Attorney General's office said, several. Several years ago, at the request of law enforcement, our Prosecution Services Bureau here at the Montana Department of Justice took another look at the case. With the assistance of our Division of Criminal Investigation, our prosecutors reworked the case, which included additional investigation, and felt that sufficient evidence they had to refile charges. So they do 2015. It's trial time, baby. This is a lot. 19 years after the crime and not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A lot of physical evidence hanging around.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's all been either dismissed as not, you know, admissible, or it's been cleaned up with 409. So the openings here, the prosecution for the Montana Attorney General's office made the opening statement and said that he was heartbroken following a breakup. We've all been there, he said. Yeah, he said then his girlfriend Ann started dating Brian while he was working there. And she. Whatever, they had been living together before the breakup. And then she's moving in with this guy, painting the picture of the relationship that we just did for two hours. So the prosecution characterized him as a jealous man who displayed the behavior of a stalker, quitting his job in Great Falls, moving back to his family's Geraldine Farm, and driving by Ann and Brian's residences and calling them both on multiple occasions. They told the jury that Thomas entered the Anne's home in the middle of the night when she wasn't home and read her diary and read that Brian was the man of her dreams. You know what that did that set him off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, I'll send you into a fucking tizzy, babe.

[James Petregallo]

You bet it. You bet it will. So the prosecutor also said Thomas told Carl, Ann's brother, that he'd entered the residence that they all shared without them knowing. And further stated that he. If he couldn't be with and he might as well kill himself. They put that all out there. They also asserted that he called Brian's residence and hung up and did the same to her that night, which we know. And they said, and now he knows they're not together. She's at her place. He's at his place. Perfect. So they said that Brian was speaking on the phone with Ann just before his death and that he abruptly ended the conversation, which would make sense because he said, I got to go. He said, there's a person outside. And he hung up. And they said that was the last anyone ever heard from Brian Rain. The state gives no theory to how exactly he was shot three times in the upper arm, arm and chest, not in the opening. But they. The cops thought they figured it out because he had blood outside. Arm. Arm. Now, I don't know. I guess he stole the gun. Someone must have stole the.357 from him. And it's all I can imagine. Yeah, that's all you could do. So the. They give no theory. They say that this was not a suicide. It was not an accident. It was a Murder where no evidence was left behind. That's very funny from the defense. I'm going no evidence because of the incompetent police force. These people are. You can't trust a word from these people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a great commercial for 409.

[James Petregallo]

It's terrific. It will clean up your crime scene. So the defense now, Jennifer Striano of the Montana Office of Public Defenders made the opening statement first explaining that the state will prove that her client was heartbroken. That's true. It's true. And also that he did some really stupid things. He did some dumb things, some immature things. Something that just a heartbroken person might do in desperation. But they're not going to prove that he killed Brian, tell you that much. He said there's no evidence. They said the officers expect to testify will try to explain away and excuse their treatment of the crime scene and even blame. Blame the decision to clean the blood on the coroner, who was a mortician and not a trained law enforcement officer or even a doctor, for Christ's sake. So they said, well, he wanted it cleaned up. Well, shut. Who cares? You're not the investigator. We'll clean it up when we're done investigating a homicide detective. I realize there's no homicide detective here. This is like the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is just deputies.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, three guys that put their feet up on their desk and put their hat in front of their face when they want to take a nap in their office. Shit in the truck or in the truck. That's what they do. They're not, you know, detectives, but a homicide detective or really. Every state law says the investigator in charge owns the scene. It is their scene. If they don't want the coroner there, they'll tell them to go, fuck off. Get the fuck out of my scene. We'll call you when we need you. The coroner doesn't get called till the detectives are done processing the scene. Then the coroner comes in. Otherwise, we got all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All evidence now. You can take the bod.

[James Petregallo]

That's it, man. So they said that towels from Brian's home used to clean up the blood were placed in garbage bags along with the phone and discarded. Where were they discarded? At the Chateau County Undersheriff's home. He took them home with him and threw them in his own garbage. Holy fuck. This is just Little League shit here, man. So the defense noted that trace evidence that was salvaged, including DNA, fibers and shoe impressions, didn't even match the client. The shit we have, it's all cop stuff. It's all their shoe prints and shit like that. There's a big thing about shoe prints. They also implored the jury to keep an open mind about the time of death, saying her client did not have an alibi for Friday night, but he did have one for Saturday. So maybe Brian was killed on Saturday. The defense mentioned several other people who had alibis for Friday but not Saturday, who should be considered suspects. You're going. You going to take their word for time of death? It could have happened later. We don't know. Um. And they also. The defense said, you will have the urge to want to solve this. That's natural. But this case cannot be resolved. Prosecution gives their rebuttal, saying the decision to clean the blood at the scene was an unwritten policy of the sheriff's office at the time. It's just fuck it all up, ruin all evidence and throw it in the garbage. Wow. Unwritten, unwritten. That. Especially given that some initially classified his death as a suicide and family members were expected to arrive at any minute. That's why they cleaned it up. Up. And they said that the town of Geraldine hadn't seen a homicide. This person says 17 years. I've read 19 either one. The state pointed out inconsistencies in Thomas's statement to law enforcement officials and that he continued to pursue. And after Brian's death, he was still trying to get with her. They mentioned several letters that he sent to Ann and that he used a vacuum cleaner salesman to get her new phone number.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. He sent a vacuum cleaner salesman to her house to try to get her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Phone, sell her a Kirby, and then bring the paperwork to me.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking unbelievable. That is wild. They sent the Dyson guy in. So the state said that Thomas told his new girlfriend that he was still in love with Anne and that a vet took her from him and that he wished that vet was dead. And they were like. She was like, was he in Vietnam?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's like, no, you fucking dummy animals. Not a vet that way. You stupid ass.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Corvette took your baby.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She rode off with a man in a Corvette.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Jesus. A soldier in a Corvette. Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I could see it.

[James Petregallo]

Say it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm wet just thinking about it.

[James Petregallo]

A vet and a vet. That ain't bad. So he said he wished the vet was dead, but he already was. This was after he was dead and Thomas knew he was dead. He was telling the girlfriend that they bring in the old undersheriff here to testify that he had been in training that day and, you know, regarding. At the Montana Law Enforcement Academy regarding coroner duties and Homicide investigations. If only they took that earlier, that would have been great. They asked why they were. Whether they were told cleaning the scene was not was appropriate at trainings that he attended in 1988, 1991 and 1993. Did they tell you that was the appropriate thing to do? And he said no. Well, why the fuck did you do it? Stupid would be the fucking natural follow up question here. They went on to ask whether cleaning a crime scene and throwing away evidence went against all the training he's received, like ever. And he said yes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, we never do that.

[James Petregallo]

Dude, how do you even deal with this if you're the jury? The defense established through this that the undersheriff should have had control of the scene at all times, given his absence for training. Also that Williams also provided more information about the then coroner's training and how in 1996 the coroner was not affiliated with the sheriff's office. Some dude just came in and said clean all this up. And they went, okay and cleaned it up. During this trial, the witnesses, meaning the crime scene people, said that an 11 1/4 inch hair was found with the root still attached on Brian's left hand. That belongs to Ann Wishman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Which she means she spends tons of time there. So if you've, if you've ever been around a woman in the house, you'll get there long. Where the fuck did that come from?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, it'll be in your boxers. How did you get that? Asshole.

[James Petregallo]

How did that happen? They said although a vacuum search of the kitchen area where his body was found didn't discover any other hairs of hers. Just one near his hand or on his hand. Also, the Montana Forensic Science division said that they recently did a DNA analysis of Brian's underwear. Everybody want that done to. You have a DNA analysis of your underwear from the crime scene and found the DNA of an unidentified person who was not Ann Wishman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Attaboy.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, this. The defense suggested that this could mean Rainn was having a relationship with someone. And he and Ann may have had a conflict over this that day. That's how this happened. Ann killed him. It's all Ann. They blame Ann. They do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Based on one hair?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, based on one hair. That there's tons of her hair in the house. I'm sure. Then there's Larry Hagenbush or Buck. Or Buck. Larry Hagenbach. They were friends in Kansas, he and Brian. And he had moved to Montana to work on his wife's partner's ranch. And when he was later visiting with Brian, he suggested that he moved to Montana, too, because there was an opening for a veterinarian in Fort Benton. And Brian ended up moving to Fort Benton and then to Geraldine. He took his advice. So they put Larry on the witness stand and asked him about his activities in 1996 prior to Brian's death. And he generally gave short answers to the questions, they said. The defense also called two women who worked in a counseling office in Great Falls where Larry Hagenbach and his estranged wife went for a counseling session on Monday, Monday, July 15, the day after Brian's body was found. The office manager there, Kathleen Foster, testified that Larry Hagenbach arrived at the office before his wife and acted like he was having a, quote, rough day. She said, quote, he said the prior day he had come upon his friend who'd been murdered. He wasn't at the crime scene. She then asked him questions, and she said that Larry said that Rain had been shot Saturday night with his own gun. This is while everyone said it was suicide still. So this is very interesting. So Ann testifies. She's got to testify. Now. Her name is Ann Stone. Now, though she has a. Yeah, she got rid of the Wishman. She said she didn't leave Thomas for Brian, but she thought. But he thought she did and called her a tramp. She answered questions about the frequent phone calls at a time when. A time when he pressured her into going for a drive and attempted to keep her in his truck when she wanted to leave and all that kind of shit, as well as all the stalking. She testifies to everything. She said that Thomas admitted to reading her journal and told her mother and sister that he was concerned about what he read. I've been reading her private.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I know what's going on in her personal life. That and between her ears. And I'm very concerned about it.

[James Petregallo]

I'm concerned she talked about her first or final phone call with Brian and that she was devastated by his death. Now, cross examination, though, the defense says, did you know your hair was found on his palm? And she said, no. And they said, did you kill him? And she said, no. Okay. Now, there's also a shoe print. There's a shoe print that I'll read right from this. The testimony almost given to the jury Wednesday, almost given regarding a shoe print resurfaced in Chateau county as the defense in this case deliberate homicide or deliberate homicide trial, moved for the charge to be dismissed due to the misconduct on the state's part. The former Division of Criminal Investigation agent Joseph Uribe mentioned a pattern he noticed in shoe prints left near Brian's Trailer More than a week after he was found shot. This guy said that he drew the pattern in his notes and then matched the pattern on a later search. He drew the pattern in his notes. That's not how you do that. He drew it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm a real good drawer, though.

[James Petregallo]

And then said it matches his shoes. The defense objected and the issue was discussed outside the presence of the jury and the judge. Greg Pinsky read instructions to the jury which stated that based on evidence and expert testing, not footwear impressions. Based on the evidence. Based on evidence and expert testing, not footwear impressions were found at the scene or near the trailer matching any souls belonging to Thomas. He said that does all this draw drawn shit. That doesn't count outside of the jury as well. The defense counsel requested to address the issue further. He said despite the instruction, the jury now has an impression that cannot be reversed and will adversely impact their trial strategy. The defense attorney says he just lied, your honor, to try and make a physical connection in this case between the footprint and my client. So the prosecutor said that they just attributed this to this guy providing a longer answer than she anticipated regarding the shoot printing. Saying something she didn't expect him to say. Like, I didn't tell him to say that. Wow. The defense said that the state's intention with the line of questioning about the shoe print. She said the defense had no information about the ruined plaster casts of the prints mentioned on the stand or drawing he made in his notes of the pattern. So, like, we didn't even get anything on that. Apparently they made past plaster casts and fucked them all up. So then he just drew them from the picture. He just drew them water in the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In the mix.

[James Petregallo]

You ever try to make paper mache? It ain't easy. Ever make one of them volcanoes in the fifth grade? Shit's hard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We. It said two cups and that was for half. So we put six because we were bad at math.

[James Petregallo]

I thought that one. I thought the cup was one cup. But turns out that's a two cup one. So I messed it all up. We got four when it should have been two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

See, we're trying. It was like. You ever made rice and it's just crispy still.

[James Petregallo]

That's weird, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

We just. We just kept putting water and it ended up too much, too runny. So we just drew it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's so fucking funny. So, yeah, they said that the defense proposed that the state intended to show the shoes to the jury along with this testimony. And yeah, they concluded that after a 19 year span between the Crime and the trial. There's no reason the defense shouldn't be privy to all of the case information at this point. And the judge said, quote, if the shoe, no pun intended, were on the other foot, you'd be outraged. Son of a bitch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No pun. It really use that one intended as fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Stop it, Superintendent. Pun fucking on your nose, man. Just right. Pow. The tip of it. So police interview. They played the police interview and in this they got to choice lines like Thomas saying, quote, I guess it was stupid for me to be doing this. Talking about several times when he was like, I drove by, I stalked. I did that kind of shit here. Which is really fucking funny here. He told the cops during this that they're played about driving to Brian's trailer to pick up Ann and bring her home after the street dance in June after reading her diary. Thomas said, right then I knew she wasn't being straight with me. So I knew Brian was the reason she dumped me. And then that's what they're hearing. And then he told the investigators he confronted Brian about Ann when he drove over there in the middle of the night after reading the diary. Which makes him sound just crazy as can be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Makes him sound guilty.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He explained all of the. All of the phone calls he made to multiple people about like the. Her family and friends and all of that. And he said he told Ann's mother that Ann drank alcohol and was promiscuous before they started dating when she was 17. She was a teenage strumpet also. Did you know that? Because that's what he's trying to say now. He went on to say that Ann confronted him about that one July 2nd when he rode a four wheeler to the farm and was caught hiding there. He said that Ann told him she didn't trust him anymore her and that he knew they'd never get back together. And he said that he never saw her after that. That was it. So the state introduced the letters and cards that he sent to Ann after Brian's death as evidence to the contrary. He was still trying to get with her. They play the second interview in court and he admitted admitted to tasking a door to door vacuum salesman to use his company customer contact cards to get Ann's unlisted phone number after she moved following the death. Wow. That's scummy. Wow. He also told the cops that about 9:45pm the night the state says that Brian was killed. He said he called to apologize for his behavior. That's why he called, not to check on anybody. He said but he chickened out and didn't say anything when Brian answered the phone. Now, the cops told him in the interview, they don't buy that as a reason. There's. They express sympathy for his feelings about the breakup, but then they say that they knew he wasn't telling them the whole story and. Yeah. So also they share with him, this is on the tape, a theory about how the shooting might have occurred with a confrontation, a scuffle, the gun in the truck and was stolen. And the cop had told him, I don't believe you went over there to hurt anyone, Tom. You're the one. Who else would it be? There's 200 fucking people here, and you're the only one stalking these people. So they said that Thomas then shared the rumors around town of his potential enemies and that he knew people would suspect him as soon as he learned of the death. And they went on to tell him he'd be. They. The cops went on to tell Thomas that he would be better off telling them up front that he didn't shoot Brian on purpose. It's an accident. Tell us.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They said it would look worse. Yeah, they gave him the little window. They said it would look worse when the evidence was collected. On top of stalking, You've admitted to stalking. It's going to look bad. And he said, I have nothing to hide. That's what they heard. So the interview also included a discussion of whether Thomas had ever been inside the trailer and all of that shit. So they continue to play all of the interviews. The investigators mentioned having some concerns about his previous statements, and they specifically hone in on his lack of alibi. All of that shit, they said, do you have any idea how important that is to you? Because they said the defendant admitted to pretending to have car trouble in the middle of the night and that Brian let him use the phone for assistance. And they said, do you have any idea how important that is for you that you were in the house, so your fingerprints might have been in there? And he said, I do now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now I get it.

[James Petregallo]

I get it now. And they said that, look, we're not here to judge you, but we're here to help you. That's always what people. That's what they're here to do. Cops love to help and that confessing would actually help him down the road. They said they told him prosecutors were chomping at the bit at that moment. So he said, if you're trying to get me to confess, I won't, because I didn't do it. That's that then they told him, this is what your trial's gonna be like. A parade of witnesses who are all gonna say you're a scumbag and a stalker and a crazy person and, you know, all of that kind of shit. And then Thomas said, ken, I've told you once, I've told you twice, I didn't do this, okay? He said later he wished he wouldn't have behaved the way he did after the breakup, but can't take that back now. Time of death is a big deal. The defense attorneys are talking to people that say Jim Arthur and Bill Meeks said they saw Brian eating a steak in the Square Butte Bar around 6:30 to 7pm and then they brought in Dr. Carl Weigran, a forensic pathologist from Seattle who reexamined the evidence and offer his opinions. And he said that studies have shown that it takes an average of around nine hours to fully digest a steak dinner. The autopsy showed at the time of his death, his stomach did not have steak in it, but contained partially digested eggs and peppers. Interesting. The defense said that's important. That's medical evidence. Also, those people could be mistaken. That they saw him eating a steak is the other thing they could have just saw. They could have mixed up. If you ask someone a month later, what was that guy eating in a bun? Who the fuck do I know? I don't care. Got a life of my own.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got eggs and peppers in him.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what he was eating. Yeah, so they said. Though the defense said that's important. That's medical evidence. There's no way Brian was shot Friday night because there's no steak in his stomach. They also said that the photos taken of him when his body was found, he looked pretty normal without signs of decomposition or discoloration. But in the photos taken at the autopsy Monday morning, significant decomposition had been taken place. And they said the decomposition may have been rapid because of the shot through his stomach. Okay. Now, closing arguments. Prosecutors said, I think it's very clear there's something unique about this case. It happened in 1996. It's 19 years old. We know when something like this happens, we never forget. We never forget the people that were taken from us. They said it's also unique because it happened in one of the least populated areas in the entire United States. They said a trailer house 10 miles outside of Geraldine, which is a tiny town. They said when you think about who took Brian from, you think about where this happened. This happened against a person who did not have Enemies. He was a beloved vet who came to this community from Kansas and was well received. He didn't seem to have enemies except one person. Nobody else had any motive or grudge against him. They said they spent a long time reviewing Thomas's behavior there. And they said this was not normal breakup behavior. He would not allow her to simply break up and say no. So they talked about his encounters with them, all the summation here, his hang up calls and all that kind of shit. They said that Thomas called rain's house at 9:45 that night, hung up and all that kind of shit, then called Ann at 9:48 and hang up. They said, so he knows where they are. And then, you know, 1038 is the hang up of the phone when he's talking to Ann. And then no one ever hears from him again. He said there's no eyewitnesses, no direct evidence such as hair or fingerprint at the crime scene. Still, there's enough circumstantial evidence to convict him. He said, quote, the defendant would like you to believe that there's only one way to prove a homicide. If an individual goes to a scene, takes minimal precautions, which seem rather easy to take, doesn't leave physical evidence at the scene and make sure that there are no eyewitnesses. You can kill anybody you want and get away with it. That circumstantial evidence is not good evidence, and that you cannot look at the whole picture, that jurors throughout this state cannot look at all the facts, facts collectively and make inferences of what happened. It can't be said, ladies and gentlemen, that you can simply wear gloves, wear a hat, destroy your clothes, and make sure no one's around and kill someone. So you get away with it. All the evidence points to. There's no doubt that Mr. Jureski killed Brian Rain. All there is to it, they said, so we don't want officers to throw away phones. But what does it mean in this case? Like, that still isn't me saying the evidence, the crime scene stuff, who cares? The shit doesn't matter. They also said the time of death thing. They said Thomas Jarecki is the only person with the opportunity, only person with the motive and the only person with the opportunity to take him out of this world. They said, and he did it. He committed this crime masterfully. Not really. You guys are just bumbling idiots.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a master fuck.

[James Petregallo]

The defense attorney said that she played a tape of Thomas talking to investigators years ago, saying, I did not go over there. You won't find anything, I guarantee it. And she said, everything we heard the last weeks after all of that and everything we've done, this case will remain unsolved. It's been 19 years, and there's a reason. It's been 19 years. After all this, the only thing we have are more questions. The more we look, the more questions arise. The reason we're here 19 years later is because of what happened on day one. She questioned law enforcement statements that they. They. They thought it was a suicide and all that kind of shit here. They said, you tell me why. They asked for a bag of bloody towels and a phone, and it was never retrieved, and it was thrown in the garbage, and it was ridiculous. They said, you heard these officers try to justify what they did to the crime scene, and yet they've really given no explanation. They, yes. They can't even admit, yes, we cleaned up the whole area. We owe this county an explanation. They owe Tom an explanation. And they owe you an explanation, and they refuse to give it. A guy got on the stand and said, I only cleaned up a little bit. And they were like, no, the pictures show you cleaned up a fucking lot of bit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a lot of it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not cool. They also said, yes, he did things that don't make sense. He did things that were incredibly stupid, but that doesn't make him a murderer. Jesus said, not at all. He's just a kid who was an idiot, basically. They said that investigators talked to him and found he did not have an alibi, while he did have an alibi for Saturday Morning and all that. She's the defense attorney, went on to say, all of this is just a story. It makes no sense. They use the word infer, but you still need to infer based on rational, quality evidence. They said that during the trial, the defense suggested that there are other people who might be considered suspects, including primarily Larry Hagen, Butch, and Ann Wishman. The defense said, I can't tell you who did this. I have no obligation to. No legal duty to. And I simply can't. It's been too long. She said that prosecutors have to prove to you that it's unreasonable. Unreasonable to think that someone else may have done this. She said, quote, larry Hagen, butch was the only person who knew Brian was shot with his own gun the day after he was found. The only way he could have known that is if he was the one using the gun or if he was friends with a cop or one of the medical people or it's a town of 200 people. I assume Shit gets out. Out. So they said, we don't convict people because we need closure. We convict people because the lead investigator. We don't convict people because the lead investigator is retiring and needs this case resolved. We don't convict people so that we can close the book. Now the defense attorney, after all of this, makes a motion to dismiss the case due to lack of evidence. So the judge dismisses those motions, he said, but they asked for it on Friday. He took till Monday to think about it. He said he deliberated it over the weekend, and he said, I struggled with this decision. Judge says, when the testimony and the evidence is viewed in isolation, it is mostly weak and conflicting and insufficient to convict Mr. Jarecke of deliberate homicide. On the other hand, when the totality of circumstantial evidence is brought into more specific light, it supports. Supports the state's charge. So, yeah, he listed 12 areas of evidence. Multiple calls, Last person to speak with, with Rain, interior and exterior of the crime scene. He was that in the days and weeks leading up to the murder. Told others he wanted the guy dead. You know, all the circumstantial evidence, the firearms. Said he could have touched the cartridges, ATVs. The judge said, I present these facts as the Montana Supreme Court requires me to in a light most favorable to the prosecution. Prosecution, they said, this evidence is very close call on whether to dismiss this case for insufficient evidence. I must be mindful of the Montana Supreme Court stringent standard. In view of the totality of evidence in the light most favorable to prosecution, I can't conclude that there is no evidence upon which a jury could base his verdict. Okay, jury goes out for deliberation. Eight hours of deliberation. It's not a lot on this one. No, eight hours is kind of. It's a murder case, so whatever. But that means it's not open and shut for them by any stretch. Here they come out here, he's at the table, they find him not guilty. Damn it. Not guilty. They said he laid his head on the table following the verdict. And yeah, afterwards, as soon as they did it, and the judge said, you know, he's to be released. And. And thanks for the jury and thanks for your service and all that. The pretrial supervising officer came right over with a pair of fucking wire clippers and cut the monitoring device off his leg.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

See, I was on home monitoring. And his family and friends were in. The whole half the courthouse cheered as they took it off. This was like a. Yeah. The defense attorney looked to the. All the People and said, you can all sleep now. I did this. I'm good. They all took turns hugging him and all that kind of thing. And then the co counsel said, all's well that ends well, as the whole group hugged. Literally had a group hug afterwards. A literal group hug. So 2016 Dateline comes in here and the preview montage that led into the show started out with a quote that this was a classic whodunit. No, it wasn't at all a classic whodunit. Not even close. One of the comments on the Dateline Facebook page after the show aired was, for such a small town, there sure are enough suspects. No, there aren't. No, it's just you couldn't. Because of the. What they did. They couldn't fucking use the fingerprint evidence at all. Otherwise he would have been dead to rights. Him saying, I might have touched it in the dark is a ridiculous thing to say. Then Keith Morrison says the plains of Montana are no stranger to sudden violent death. History is littered with it, he said. A half hour down the highway from little Geraldine is a living remnant of America's old west Fort Benton, Montana. Still holding out against wind and weather and occasional outbursts of the worst human. Of the worst humans can do to each other. Huh. So people have been talking about this. Obviously, DATELINE didn't dwell on a lot of the shit here. They really wanted to present it as a mystery big who done it. They didn't dwell on the cleaning of the crime scene. They pointed out quickly. But they didn't go like, holy shit, let's dive into that. When they asked Ken Thompson of the Montana Department of Criminal Investigation how the sheriff's department and the coroner could have thought that the murder was a suicide, the guy said, I think you have to understand that the county had not had a homicide. And I think it was 19 years. I don't care if you've not had a homicide in 100 years. He's got. Got fucking gunshot wounds to his arm, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just because, just because we're talking about just because we haven't had a murder in clock reset doesn't mean what the fuck, man?

[James Petregallo]

He then said, montana's a remote state. Someone's somewhere you'll drive eight hours to, you know, someone. Someone drives eight hours to a crime scene to get to a crime scene. So it's not like a big city where you can roll in and everything's pristine. And then Morrison's voiceover said, no, not even close. In fact, the deputies and local coroner spent just a few hours tromping around Brian's kitchen and had taken about a dozen photos and in the process had done things that couldn't be undone without swabbing for DNA or dusting for fingerprints. Episode aftermath. Shitloads of people who comment on the episode on Facebook when Dateline puts it up, expressed their incredulity, frustration and anger at the way law enforcement handled the murder scene. Comments included, I can't comprehend how this. Even who trained these people. Barney Fife Couldn't figure it out. How the police really bungled this. Very sloppy. I would sue the police department for botching the crime scene.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody said anything about Keith Morrison's face.

[James Petregallo]

Never. Never. They keep it old episodes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's up, I'm sure not one thing about maybe get him a drink of water.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. Parched. Parched. Looking at the Facebook comments on the episode suggests that the majority of the people who watched the show agreed with the verdict. Not guilty verdict. Out of the first hundred of the hundreds of comments on the show, only eight people said they felt that he was guilty. I think he's obviously guilty, but they fucked up the evidence to the point where it was really hard to convict him. But when someone's stalking like that, I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Based on the evidence. And so I guess you got to say not guilty. But yeah, the guy's a. Certainly a piece of shit, right?

[James Petregallo]

For sure. Stalker. At least some of the people who agreed with the not guilty verdict were convinced that he wasn't guilty, while others said he's guilty, but there's not enough evidence. That's kind of where I'm in. I think out of the first 100 people who commented, 23 people said they thought Larry Hagen book was guilty or might be guilty because he.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Because he knew before anybody that it was with his own gun.

[James Petregallo]

But he had a solid alibi up till Saturday.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Maybe he heard that he was shot twice in the fucking arm and was like. I mean, he clearly didn't do it by.

[James Petregallo]

On his own at 10:38 when he. When Brian hung up the phone. And that's when the confrontation happens, we think. And that's when the guy said he heard three gunshots to the neighbor at that time, Larry has a fucking rock solid alibi, whereas Thomas does not. So there's that. And Ann has a good one too, so it's not her either. They all. They have to say, it's fucking Saturday. So also, nine people suggested that Ann was guilty. Oh, yeah. The Dateline episode did not suggest that Wishman was even a possible suspect, but that's what people inferred. Although the suggestion did come up during the trial as the defense attorneys brought it up. Wow. The judge says two keys to Morrison here. This was an incredibly tough case to prove. It was a tough case to prove in 1998. It became an incredibly tough case to prove in 2015. And the episode ends just like we're gonna end our episode here with a quote from the judge. Quote. I meant it when I told the jurors when they wanted to find out who did this, when they wanted to solve this crime, that literally, if they believe there's another world they can go to someday. Look up Brian Rain when you get there and ask him who killed him. Look him up. Heaven has phone books.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ask the dead guy.

[James Petregallo]

Ask when. When you die.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Look him up in the afterlife in the old white pages and ask him. Because that's the only way we're ever going to know who killed Brian Rain. And that is Geraldine Montana and a fucking mess of a story.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Boy, oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

We all think he did this, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. But I mean, without a doubt, we know two facts. Keith Morrison needs to drink some more water.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Skin is fucked.

[James Petregallo]

Hydrate. Hydrate, sir.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You look like a prehistoric riverbed. And then 409 is amazing. That's all we know.

[James Petregallo]

The best.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the only facts we know.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Wow. Shit is wild. So there you go, everybody. If you like that show. So please, please get on whatever app you're listening on, give us five stars. It helps so fucking much. Make sure you say something. It drives us up the charts and it's very good shit here. Also, follow on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram. Smalltown Pot on Facebook. You definitely, definitely want to go to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for all the live shows here, except for the couple that are already sold out. Some of them are selling out. Madison, just. I think it's sold out now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just about.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I think I saw 100%. Now it's sold out. Madison, Grand Rapids. See you later. Portland.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sold out.

[James Petregallo]

San Diego, like 8, 98%. These are. That's half the shows almost. And then so there's Seattle, D.C. philly, St. Louis, which is, like, really close to selling out as well. And Chicago. Get your tickets right now. Oh, San Diego. And Irvine, too. Irvine, California. Get in there. So get in there right now if you want to see the show. We want everybody who wants to come to come, so don't get left out, please. And so it's a fun time It's a comedy show you will leave hurting. So shut upandgivemerder.com here's some extra stuff for you. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get access to everything we have to offer on there. Hundreds of. As soon as you subscribe hundreds of episodes, you'll get that you've never seen or heard before. And then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. And God damn it, you get all of it this week. What we're gonna do for you here is for crime and sports. It is gonna be disasters of all kinds. Industrial disasters, crazy shit going on here. Just crazy disasters with nutty stuff. Then for small town murder, we are gonna talk about psychics that actually worked, that did their. That actually by coincidence or psychic or whatever. We'll talk about it. I figure we're always debunking things and saying that things are bullshit. So let's. Let's dive into this and people who actually did a good job. There you go. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get that and a shitload more, like we said. And also what you're gonna get right now is a goddamn shout out. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best fucking people in the world who would never, ever, ever stalk us and hang out in our wind belt shelters. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This executive producer are. Gary Howard, Alana Zemel.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, Gary.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And Tyler. Thank you all so much for what you're doing. That's. You don't have to do it and you do, and we appreciate it. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Happy hour in Pecos, Texas. Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbes iii. Nicholas Palmieri. Palmieri. Melissa Coffin. Coffin. Maybe Church. Meet Jessica with no last name. Steve Dermaine. Demaine. Uh, Juliana Morgenthaler, Rob Renner, Blackheart 2000. Angela Tatri. Tatri GK KKK Santina Galvin, Marcy Smith, Michelle Kiggins, Christina Jinx, Michael Maglio. Maglio. Jesse Carlson. Carlson. Uh, the dude. No, just the dude. Uh, Lisa McChrystal.

[James Petregallo]

One dude.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There he is. Matt. Uh, Maddie. Maddie Petoskey. Pitisky. Uh, Josh Piper, Amanda Matthews, Darren Scott, Charlotte Dolan, Nicole Gray. Tanner Brusco. Susan Fisher, Natalie Contra. Bill. 2344. Aspen P. Amber with no last name. Holly Arnold. Katie with no last name. Ashley Dawn. John Donahue, John O'Donohue. Kate. Pat. K. Pat. I don't know. Jenny Crosby. Amanda Hass has given people first name. Jennifer Track. Stacy. Guy T. Ray Bergeron. Bergeron. Michelle Harris. Michael with no last name. Angela Schmeiser. Gail with no last name. Olivia with no last name. Alex Herkamp. Robert Scaffone. Lizzie with no last name. Bethany Stevens. Joseph Nicholson. Kate and Chris from New Jersey. Ollie Oxenfree. Clinton Salisbury. Salisbury. Haley Locke. Luke Lol.

[James Petregallo]

Salisbury twice.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Salisbury. The first time Thomas Waits. Sarah with no last name. Is that Walti or wait. It's. Wait. Benjamin Madison. Matte Sen. Peter Goyza goes. It goes in. Oh, it goes in you. James.

[James Petregallo]

The Peter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

As the Peter goes in. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

As you were trying to figure it out, my eyes were getting wider like Jimmy. Are you not what you're going to keep trying to pronounce this animus?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Alva Thompson.

[James Petregallo]

Michael Offend. The Dutch. It's a Dutch name.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Certain. Duke D. Stack. Alexandria. Alexandria. Krukatowitz. Kruka. Krukowitz. Kruki. All right. Taylor Carson. It's as close as I'm gonna get. Michael Frankel.

[James Petregallo]

Finkel.

[Jimmy Wissman]

William Vorgius. Vorgas. Angie. Angie Weasel. Weasel. Link Wezelink. Jessica Anderson. Jan Harris. Maybe Yawn. Uh, Rick Calhoun. Colin for sex. Uh, Emily.

[James Petregallo]

Danielle. Calling for sex.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Calling for sex. That's what he's doing. Yep. Danielle from it does. Berto. Calez. Mukule. Roy with no last name. That's funny. Kiana Keena. Kiana Price with cat. Proctor Rion with no last name. Ryan. Rhian. Rhianne. Erica Brimhall. Kelly Wright. Lauren Stites. Cher with no last name. Cheryl with no last name. Joy with no last name. Midnight with no last name. Thelma Borgens of Dorvador. Harlan. Thelma. You've got a up last name. Arlen Group. Also Grukanaza. Grukinaz Gracunas. I don't know. Jillian with no last name. Laura Hyatt. Lillian would know. Oh, Leon. Yana. Yana. Carol Shook.

[James Petregallo]

Did you get Yana out of Lillian? You started out all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That was a journey.

[James Petregallo]

That was a journey.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Lauren Loham. Tasha. Tiasha Deakins. Court with no last name. Stephanie Bean. Kepler with no last name. Colt. Kibby. Christine. Like the car that killed people. Haley with no last name. Austin. Batman. Peyton Rabadoux. Hin Hind Time. Shane Shipley. Tree with no last name. Craig would know last name. Also Craig King. Probably the same person with two of them now. Tasserath. Twice Tasserath. Shaza Fucci shows a Thule. Shows a Thali. That's not right. Okay, that's probably not even Somebody's name. Mike would know last name. I don't believe him. Nicole with no last name. Megan Johnston. Alan's mom. Cat. Carolyn with no. Carlin with no last name. Drew dog 34. Just my luck. Lori with no last name. Rhonda Moreland. Dem. 0dem O. Andrew Knopf. Noff. Maybe it is Knoff. Possible. Jacob. Jacob Walker. Antonia. Antonio Valais, Randy with no last name. The system. Melanie, Lillis, Jordan Volrath, Edith, Cerna. These are the most up names ever.

[James Petregallo]

Like all of Eastern Europe has fucking decided to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anthony, Festa, Cindy, Archibald, Freda. Frida White. Michelle Kupila, Jenny Showman. Stephanie. Sing it. Okay. Cena. Cena. Conorath. Oh, Cenac. Conorath. I don't. That feels dirty. I don't know what it is I was gonna say.

[James Petregallo]

Is that part two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

John Randall Arms. Arms with no last name. Amanda Walsh. Edgar Edward Galligan. Galligan. Gallaghan. Veronica B. Kayla Lanier. Cody Richardson. Emily Stewart. Aislin Burgess. Jas B. Joss. Maybe Heather Nelson. Kira with no last name. Christopher Banville. Tila Taylor. Talia Christ. Joe Gladhill. It's probably Crist. Elise Elise. Brad Bridges. Elise Bridges. Becky with no last name. JBW89. Also J&J. J. The letters J and J. Thank you all so much for everything you're doing.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much everybody from the bottom of our hearts. You people are goddamn fantastic. Thank you for all that you do for us all the goddamn time. We're gonna keep it coming week after week. If you want to follow us on social media, head over to shutupandgivemurder.com drop down menu will tell you everywhere you need to go and want to go. And until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey in the 1980s, a swept the country. Hey Mike, I really like this White Zinfandel.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well good, good.

[James Petregallo]

Now put it down. We're gonna try another one. White Zinn became America's top selling wine. But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles.

[James Petregallo]

A big fraud, a multi million dollar fraud sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business, the Licciardis. But the closer the Feds got to them, the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

At the time, I was paranoid.

[James Petregallo]

Threats. You touch my kids, I will kill you. And murder with a.22 caliber bullet to the head. What started with a scheme to mislabel wine spilled into a blood soaked battle for succession. Welcome to Bloodvines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad free on Wondery plus. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify.