#570 - Twelve Scary Hours - Westport, Connecticut

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder Episode #570 – Twelve Scary Hours: Westport, Connecticut

In episode #570 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman explore a harrowing true crime story from Westport, Connecticut. Through meticulous research and their characteristic blend of depth and humor, they unravel the tragic events of November 12, 1962, detailing the brutal murder and kidnapping that shook this affluent suburb.

---

Introduction to Westport, Connecticut

[03:20 - 07:17]

The episode opens with James providing a comprehensive background on Westport, painting a vivid picture of its transformation over the years. Originally incorporated in 1835, Westport evolved from an agricultural powerhouse—famously the leading onion-growing center in the United States—to a lush, wealthy suburb adjacent to New York City. By the early 20th century, it had become an artsy enclave attracting notable figures like Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward.

“Westport is a leafy suburb... population in this town, 27,168. So a nice sized town.” ([07:17])

The Salon Family and Their Mansion

[07:17 - 16:27]

The Salon family, residing at the extravagant 31 Stony Brook Road, epitomizes Westport’s affluence. Pierre Salon, a successful textile designer, lives with his wife Isabel and their 14-year-old daughter Gail in a sprawling 6,503 square-foot mansion on a 95-acre wooded lot. The home, valued at over $4.6 million today, was purchased for a mere $75,000 a few years prior—highlighting the rapid wealth accumulation in the area.

“His father was persuaded to stay away from her. Okay. If you're this 14 year old girl who's just been fucking attacked and raped and all...” ([34:18])

The Crime Unfolds: November 12, 1962

[16:27 - 34:18]

On Veterans Day, a Monday when schools are closed, Pierre leaves for work, leaving Isabel and Gail alone. At approximately 8:45 PM, Gail awakens feeling disoriented and attempts to check the time, only to encounter Harless Miller—a 32-year-old part-time landscaper with a troubling past—standing in the hallway.

“…a man was standing there and not her dad or either of her brothers. He was a tall, light-skinned man.” ([20:09])

Harless violently assaults Gail, choking her with a cord and dragging both her and Isabel into various rooms, binding them with ropes made from clotheslines. Despite her severe injuries and restraints, Gail exhibits incredible resilience, repeatedly struggling to free herself.

“I struggled with the ropes as hard as I could and managed to... fall out face first.” ([39:01])

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The Investigation Begins

[34:18 - 53:01]

Gail's desperate escape leads her to neighbor Mary Burgo, who alerts the authorities. The investigation quickly points to Harless Miller, a known landscaper in the area with a previous criminal record. Witnesses from the local Calypso Tavern report seeing a man matching Harless's description purchasing a chicken sandwich around 6:00 PM—an unusual time for such orders at the establishment.

“He had a heart-shaped face, a narrow chin, and one ear stuck out...” ([42:12])

Harless's disappearance and subsequent sightings catalyze a manhunt, involving local police, the FBI, and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Eventually, Harless and his wife Lucille are apprehended in Sopperton, Georgia, after Harless is spotted near his former residence.

“He submitted to arrest without resistance.” ([52:39])

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The Trial and Conviction

[53:01 - 75:00]

During the trial, the prosecution presents compelling evidence, including Gail's eyewitness testimony and physical evidence from Harless's vehicle, such as bloodstains and hair matching Gail's. Despite the defense's attempts to discredit Gail's account and challenge the legality of the car search, the jury finds Harless guilty of first-degree murder and rape.

Notable moments include:

• Gail’s Identification: “I pointed him out,” ([67:52])

• Defense's Argument: The defense claims improper procedure and attempts to introduce reasonable doubt regarding the evidence.

• Prosecution’s Stand: Strong emphasis on the consistency of Gail’s testimony and the physical evidence linking Harless to the crime.

“The state introduced testimony that he wasn't there at the time she said he was...” ([63:12])

Ultimately, Harless is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, a sentence later influenced by legislative changes in Connecticut abolishing natural life sentences.

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Aftermath and Legislative Changes

[75:00 - 78:07]

Following the conviction, Connecticut introduces Public Act 573, abolishing natural life sentences and making life without parole conditional upon eligibility for parole after 20 years. Harless remains incarcerated, and his wife Lucille is released, having been an unwitting accomplice in his escape.

Gail Salon, survivor of the ordeal, rebuilds her life, eventually attending the New York School of Interior Design and working as an interior designer. Tragically, she passes away in 2013 at the age of 64, leaving behind a legacy of survival and resilience.

“Gail ended up attending the New York School of Interior Design and working many years...” ([76:09])

---

Reflections and Conclusion

[78:07 - End]

James and Jimmy reflect on the harrowing events, emphasizing Gail's extraordinary bravery and the profound impact the crime had on Westport. They discuss how the community responded by increasing vigilance and security, transforming the suburb into an even more guarded enclave.

“That’s why we don’t live there.” ([12:33])

The episode concludes with the hosts encouraging listeners to support the podcast through ratings, live show attendance, and Patreon subscriptions, while teasing upcoming content on disasters and psychics.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. James on Westport’s Affluence:
   “The median household income here... almost a quarter of a million a year.”
   [07:17]

2. James Describing the Kaff Mansion:
   “It looks like an apartment complex.”
   [16:46]

3. Gail’s Initial Encounter with Harless:
   “I walked past an intersecting hallway and that's when this man grabbed me by the neck...”
   [20:09]

4. Jimmy on the Crime Scene:
   “How do you expect that to go Right.”
   [10:55]

5. James on Harless’s Arrest:
   “He submitted to arrest without resistance.”
   [52:39]

6. Gail’s Identification of Harless:
   “I pointed him out.”
   [67:52]

7. James on Legislative Changes:
   “Public Act 573, a law abolishing natural life sentences...”
   [75:30]

---

Final Thoughts

Episode #570 of Small Town Murder masterfully dissects a complex and brutal case from Westport, Connecticut, blending detailed storytelling with insightful analysis. James and Jimmy not only recount the tragic events but also explore the broader societal and legislative implications that followed. This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the resilience of survivors and the enduring quest for justice in the face of overwhelming adversity.

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For those interested in delving deeper into this case or other intriguing mysteries, Small Town Murder continues to offer compelling narratives with every episode, enriched by thorough research and the hosts' engaging commentary.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to get you styled up with Stitch Fix. Shopping's hard. It's hard. With Stitch Fix. You get a stylist, though, who understands your style, your size, your budget, and they do all the shopping for you. Wow, this is excellent shopping. I'm telling you. Shopping and figure out your style. It's overwhelming. Let somebody help you. When it comes to getting dressed, we don't know what we're doing. So we let Stitch Fix help us out. A Stitch Fix stylist there, they know it works on us. We get the prices that make us look really good and it feels good. You get some confidence boost walking around knowing that you're looking decent here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

We just give the stylist our sizes, style, budget preferences. I hope we order boxes when we want, how we want. No subscription or any of that required. And they send all just for me pieces as well. Oh, like maybe you'd like this. And it's awesome. Outfit recommendations, styling tips. You keep what you love, you send back the rest. It's super easy. You can do it. And we are doing it because it's excellent personal styling for everyone. Get started [e-mail] STM that's stitchfix.com STM.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about Noom. Has Noom helped you? I believe it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's got an app you can do tracking. It's terrific.

[James Petregallo]

It does it. Noom builds personal plans that can meet individual needs. That's the thing. Takes into account any dietary restrictions, medical issues, other personal needs that helps build a plan that works for you. And yes, so you've. I know that you've had your own personalized program here that you've been working on and weight loss, that, that, that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is, this is weight loss results that last. They stick around because you, you get yourself into a lifestyle change and that's what matters.

[James Petregallo]

That's mainly. You can't just say, I'm going to for a month and then go back. That's not where you don't. So I'm glad it's helping you. That's great. And it really does. I like the psychology and biology based approach here. Noom weight uses psychology. That's why they say losing weight starts with your brain, but it also takes into account your unique biological factors. Jimmy. All of all of your multitude flora and fauna that goes on inside of you there. Stay focused on what's important to you with noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial [e-mail] noom.com n o o m.com here based on 3.5 year study of actively engaged Noom users with minimum starting BMI of 25. Individual results may vary. Visit our website for more information.

[Matthew Scher]

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[James Petregallo]

I'm Matthew Scher and on my new.

[Matthew Scher]

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[James Petregallo]

Shootout that left one activist dead and.

[Matthew Scher]

And countless lives forever changed.

[James Petregallo]

Binge all episodes of We Came to.

[Matthew Scher]

The Forest ad free on Wondery.

[James Petregallo]

Hello everybody and welcome back to small Town Murder Express.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us. All aboard the Murder train pulling away from the station. We have a very weird episode for you today. Just a strange one. Can't wait to get into it before we do. Very quickly. Shut up and give me. Murder.com is where you get tickets for all your live shows. If you would like to come to a live show, get your tickets now. I'm telling you right now the tickets may is the next batch of shows coming up which is Chicago and St. Louis. St. Louis is just about sold out. Chicago's getting there. Grand Rapids is just about sold out. I think, I think Madison sold out. I'm pretty sure that Portland is sold out. San Diego is sold out. I mean these, it's really, really. If you want tickets, get them. Hurry right goddamn now and get in there and do that. Shut up and give me murder.com also. Patreon is what you want. Patreon.com crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

And we have so much bonus material for you. Anybody $5 a month or above, you are going to get, including as soon as you subscribe, hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before of bonus stuff and then new ones every other week, including this week. This week for crime and sports. We're going to talk about disasters of all kinds. We did like some industrial disasters, some hot air balloon disasters. It's just like a disaster grab bag.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're going to talk about when it goes bad.

[James Petregallo]

It's crazy. Yeah, especially when it's like old timey like the molasses river that happened in Boston that was wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And hot air balloons. How do you expect that to go Right.

[James Petregallo]

It seems like it would be a miracle every time it lands, I would imagine. Oh, my God. How'd that happen then for small town murder? Since we always debunk everything, we're going to talk about psychics that actually succeeded in what they were trying to do, find bodies and do things like that. Very interesting stuff there. We'll get into all that. Add more patreon.com crime in sports. That said, I think it's time to get into this. I think it's time everybody to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs here. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, let's go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wissman]

We have to.

[James Petregallo]

We are going to Connecticut this week here. Westport, Connecticut. Westport is in southwestern Connecticut.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the West Port, the one by the land.

[James Petregallo]

Well, it sits down on the Long Island Sound down there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, is it?

[James Petregallo]

It's on the water. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So it is a port.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a port, yeah. It's Westport, southwestern Connecticut by the Long Island Sound. It's basically a suburb of New York City, though. Anything within 2 hour driving distance is a suburb of the city. And this is about an hour and a half depending on traffic to New York City from here. So definitely a burb. It's about an hour and a half in the other direction to Ellington, Connecticut, which was our last episode. Our last Connecticut episode. Detective Fitbit. I remember. That was wild. That was interesting. A whole case solved by a Fitbit. That's crazy. Shit, then this is in Fairfield County. Population in this town, 27,168. So a nice sized town. And it's remained that size for years and years and years. They're not building anything more. It's nice. A lot of larger properties on wooded lots and shit like that. This is a very leafy suburb. The median household income here. Buckle up. $236,892. That's median. Median is almost a quarter of a million a year. Median home cost here, you better be making a quarter million a year because the median home cost is $1,473,500.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Almost 1.5.

[James Petregallo]

That's all I can say to that. Holy shit. The nickname. They don't have a motto, but they have a nickname of this town, which is capital W, little E, capital P, little O. We po, which is. They're not PO at O. At O. They're not par in the slightest. These fucking people I get it's Westport. We. But no, it's not. Don't do that. Because that's what it sounds like. A little bit of history of this town here officially incorporated in 1835. They got lands from Fairfield, Weston and Norwalk and just made a town out of it here, I guess. There was a guy named Daniel Nash, led 130 people to petition the town of Fairfield for Westports incorporation. And they wanted to assist their seaport's economic viability that was being undermined by neighboring town seaports. You have a seaport, you're concerned with that, but we're concerned with our seaport. So let us deal with this shit. So for several decades after that, it was a big agricultural community. It was the leading onion growing center in the United States, which I had no idea. You can smell it in fucking Times Square. You can smell the onions. That's crazy. And it became a shipping center in part to transport the onions. That's how it worked. Once the collapse of the onion industry happened, then mills and factories replaced that. And now it's just replaced with rich people. So that's it starting about 1910. This is when people in New York City discovered a nice little leafy burb about an hour and a half away. And this. This is when artists and musicians started moving here. Oh, this became an artsy town. F. Scott Fitzgerald moved here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I did some shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Because he didn't want to be. He didn't want to deal with the business. All the business shit in New York. So Star Spangled Banner guy moving there. No, no. F. Scott Fitzgerald is not these. No.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is he not a composer?

[James Petregallo]

He's a writer. He's a writer. He's an author. F. Scott. The Great Gatsby.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I know who you say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which would make sense. Seeing the light across the thing. You're on a sound. It all makes sense now. So that was before he wrote that too. He moved there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Francis Scott key.

[James Petregallo]

Francis Scott key. There you go. Yeah, it's an F. Scott. You got it. I'm on board. You got that shit. The. This it became. Got a reputation as an art center. And people were calling it a creative heaven at that point. And then in the 20th century, there's industrialization and all this in New York and all this industrialization everywhere else. Made fashionable. People come here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And it became Westport. Very fashionable. More writers and artists came. Farmers started. Yeah, farmers were selling off their land for housing developments and shit like that. And it changed from farmers to the suburbs at that Point. Then famous people started moving here. In 1960, Paul Newman moved in and lived there till he died. Lived there till he. I'm sure he had five houses. But he.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he lived there being handsome. Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just being handsome till he's dead. And his wife, Joanne Woodward, the other actress, she still lived there after he died. Even just stayed there. Liked it. Here's reviews of this town. Got a couple reviews here. 5 stars. I appreciate the location of the town and what the town has to offer. It's an hour from New York City, making the city very accessible and contains a beach, a nice downtown area, a public pool, the public sports courts and fields. The high school is very intense, but contains amazing sports, theater and music facilities and programs. These are rich kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Smart kids.

[James Petregallo]

The parents are monitoring. Not necessarily smart, but rich.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, rich.

[James Petregallo]

All rich people think their kids will be smart no matter if they're dumb or not. That's what rich people think.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We can buy them being smart.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I am rich enough that that kid is not dumb. It's weird. Very fucking weird. Here. Here's three stars. Beautiful town and relatively nice people. In my opinion. People can be spoiled, arrogant and extremely out of touch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, they're called rich people.

[James Petregallo]

They're called rich people that live in this. Yeah, this is not the real world. And then finally, one star. A very all caps. Nasty town. Oh, nasty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's run shit about you.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, she's got a whole. This is a whole thing here. It's run by an insider's clique of real estate people, hedge fund people, show biz types. And if you're not a quote, insider type, you're deemed a sub citizen. So if you're not rich. Yeah, that's how rich works. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you're not wealthy, these people don't like you. Really?

[James Petregallo]

Are you here to trim my hedges? That's what they think at that point. The police are very nasty. Basically thugs for the real estate people. And if you complain to town hall about them, what does Downhall do or town hall do? They refer your complaint back to the police. They are nasty people, the whole lot of them. The realtors are also extremely nasty and they engage in serious blacklisting practices. Yeah, yeah. It's a small town that. Where you're not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Richard. Of rich people that don't want anybody that's not rich there because you bring down the property value, you poor fuck.

[James Petregallo]

That's. That's why we don't live there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So things to do here. Westtoberfest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a Craft beer, beer and fall festival. Let's see here. Promising a day of craft beer delights, live music, community camaraderie. In the heart of downtown Westport, beer enthusiasts can indulge in a diverse selection of over 50 local and regional beers. From crisp bloggers and bold IPAs to rich stouts and refreshing non alcoholic drinks. Oh, the festival promised rich douche beer. Rich douche beer. Rich ipa. Yeah. Tears of the Poor is what one is called. It's great. Tears of the Poor children. Holy. The festival promises more than fantastic brews. It will also feature delicious food and lively music. Local culinary favorites will serve mouth watering treats to satisfy any appetite. And the musical performances will be by one band called, quote, one bad oyster. Why we'll make you shit, have a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Rich community and just have one shit band. You probably priced out the riffraff, dude.

[James Petregallo]

You should see their logo is a cartoon oyster shell open with. Looks like a lump of gray. An oyster, like angry, like it's got teeth and it's like. And it's got a. It's got a bomb sitting next to it with like a, you know, a cartoon bomb with like a, you know, fucking thing coming off. Fuse lit. Yeah, that's because they're one bad oyster.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's an explosive oyster.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. And they'll also be a steinholding contest, a pumpkin chunkin event hosted by CBS News, CBS News weather anchor and Westport resident Lonnie Quinn. Oh, well then there's Lonnie Quinn, by the way. One Bad Oyster. Here's how they describe them. One Bad Oyster's not your average band. They're an energetic and lively ska surf band hailing from the vibrant Fairfield county in Connecticut. That sounds, no thanks. Rough. But they say they've been rocking the tri state New England venues with their infectious beats and catchy tunes. Holy shit. Let's talk about a murder. I gotta get to the murder before.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I have to murder them.

[James Petregallo]

Before I have to talk more about One Bad Oyster. Now we're gonna go back in time farther than I think we've done. One case older than this, maybe two. Normally don't go back in time this far, but this is such a fucking harrowing tale that I read it and I'm like, how do we not tell this story? Just because it's like a story of. It's one of those narratives where it's like, then this happens, then this happens. It's not like this is what happened. It's the. You're gonna go through it and it's white knuckle and it's like. It's a story of death and survival and horrifying shit. It's wild. We'll get into it. Let's go here. 1970. 62. Yeah, 63 years ago. Way farther back than we usually go here. So let's talk about some people. People. Pierre and Isabel still on sillin S I L L A N. If his name's Pierre, I'm going salon because it's probably Pierre. Pierre and his wife Isabel. She's 50 years old. He's a little bit older than that. They have some kids as well. They have three kids. They have Paul, who is 24. His son, he's the oldest. He is in the army, stationed in Germany by now. In 62. Pierre Jr. Again, somebody named the Junior the second kid. So weird. Must have had a commitment to name something after somebody's dad or some shit before that. So Pierre Jr. Is 20 and he's away at college. So neither of the boys are in the house at this point. They're both out of the house doing their own thing. They have one child at home and that is Gail, their daughter. G A I L, not G A L E. She's 14 years old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So they live in a fucking incredible mansion. These people really. It's a three story home in a wooded area at 31 Stony Brook Road. And I'll give you the stats on it later, but I'm gonna show you a picture of this fucking house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fucking.

[James Petregallo]

It looks like an apartment complex.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it is probably four stories.

[James Petregallo]

There's three above ground, three above grid.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look at that great room. It's got three arcadia doors.

[James Petregallo]

Insanity, dude. That's the garage. I don't even know what to say about this fucking place. It looks like four houses. Like four big houses they crammed into one house. It is a five bedroom, eight bath, 6503 square foot house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't believe there's only that many bedrooms. There should be 11.

[James Petregallo]

It's bonkers, dude. This house is. It's all rooms. You'd think there'd be more. It's on a 95 acre wooded lot backed up to woods. That's fucking incredible. This house. These people are doing very well for themselves.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're happy, they smile a lot.

[James Petregallo]

They bought it a couple years earlier for $75,000, which was an exorbitant amount of money for a house back then. Absolutely. Like next level expensive. So they're doing very well for themselves here. So the exact date we're going to go TO is November 12, 1962, it is Veterans Day. This day, it's a Monday. It's very important that it's a Monday and Veterans Day because the kids are home from school this day. It's a holiday for a lot of people. Not for Pierre. Pierre is a textile designer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pierre is a very successful man. He does not take days off.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he doesn't get fucking federal holidays off. When you live in a 6,500 square foot house, you work when other people aren't, hopefully. Unless you're an inherited asshole.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm a veteran of the textile industry. I have to work.

[James Petregallo]

So it's a holiday for the kids though. So Pierre leaves for work at about 7am he's got a commute to New York City. So he leaves his wife and daughter in the house. They're both asleep. Like I said, the boys are ones at college, ones in Germany. He goes out the kitchen door, which God knows how many doors there are in this fucking house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean on the weak side it's.

[James Petregallo]

Got so many which he closes but he doesn't lock because it's 1962. This is a very good neighborhood. Yeah, so he doesn't even lock it. They don't even bother locking this giant house up. So he then gets on the train and goes to New York on the commuter train. Okay, now here comes what I'd like to call 13 Hours of Hell. Oh, okay. I'll give you a. This is Gail, 14 year old Gail, quote. I awoke suddenly and thought my watch had stopped. I couldn't seem to figure out what time it was. I put on a red wardrobe over my flowered nightgown and went out into the second floor hallway. I was going to check the time on a grandfather clock downstairs. No phone sitting next to her, nothing like that. Just gotta check that, she said. As I walked into the hallway, a man was standing there and not her dad or either of her brothers. He was a tall, light skinned man. He had worked in our house as a handyman about two weeks ago. Okay, okay, so she knew she recognized him. So this is about 8:45pm she gets up, starts down the hallway toward her parents bedroom also to go downstairs the same direction. Pm Am. I'm sorry, am. She walked past an intersecting hallway and that's when this man grabbed her by the neck and pulled her back into her bedroom. Oh, pushed her up against the. Closes the bedroom door and pushes her up against the bedroom door that's closed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He held her by the throat. 14 year old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Here comes the mom. Here comes Isabel, she knocks on the door, says, everything all right? I heard, is everything all right? She couldn't answer from in there. She's getting choked. Gail passes out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, that kind of heavy choke.

[James Petregallo]

Choker. Yeah. He's choking her so she can't get noise out to alert her mother. So chokes her till she passes out. She hits the ground, passes out. Okay, this is. Now, it could have been fainting, but it's probably choking. Probably from the choking. So this guy who has come into this house is Harless Miller. H A R L I S Harless. Never heard his name before.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't think it really exists.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. Harless Miller. He's 32 years old at the time and he is a part time landscaper and gardener who has done work around here for 10 years. Okay. He's worked on this property, as a matter of fact, on at least six different occasions in October and November of 1962 and on the adjoining property on at least four occasions during the same period. So for the last two months he's been around doing landscaping. Shit. Now, Harless had never failed to report for work on a scheduled day ever. But on November 10, he was supposed to work Monday. They told him Saturday, you have to work Monday. But he didn't show up to work that day, the first time he's ever done that. Now a little bit about Harless. He is from Sarasota, Florida, but he lived in Norwalk, Connecticut and like I said, didn't show up that morning for work. And when one of his employers telephoned his landlady to see where the fuck he was, she just said he was out. So he wasn't home, he wasn't sick. They also said that Harless was. We find out he's the oldest of seven children he's born to. His mom's name is Mary Jones. And she go. Everybody calls her Aunt Mary. And everybody said that she is a very upstanding lady down there. Her first husband died right after her last child was born, which is convenient now you have seven kids and fucking by yourself. Her second husband was killed in a gun duel with a neighbor. Wow. Yeah. 50s in the wild, in like the 40s, I think.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That is fucking crazy. Through it all though, Aunt Mary would raise her kids up by. This is. She made a living by picking beans and selling hogs. That is rough going, man. The county never had trouble with Harless at all though. One guy here though said that that was down there. But the deputy police chief, Jack Royal of Sarasota said that he used to work in a pool room down there. And meaning Harless. And he said Harless had a record of three arrests. Gambling, carrying a deadly weapon, and rape.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They accelerated fast.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The last charge was dismissed in 1960 on the grounds of insufficient evidence. Now, Harless calls himself several aliases. Harris, Hollister, and Ulysses, as well as Harless. Yeah, that's what he goes by. So it's. It's very interesting. A little background on Harless here. His mom, Aunt Mary, would never say anything bad about her, but there. Harless was married before this to a woman named Jimmy Sue. Jimmy spelled like you Jimmy Sue.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy sue called Harless a quote, mean man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And accused him of carrying a gun everywhere. Original Florida man he is. Jimmy sue said Harless was a turpentine worker when she married him in 1953. So he's got excessive brain damage, probably. If he's been working around turpentine in the 50s, probably just ate everything he's got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So not just for the inhalement, but inhalement. Inhaling it, but everything. It doesn't matter. The absorption, but. Oh, the chemicals through the skin. It's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

In the 50s, there wasn't, like, safety measures or anything like that. Fuck that. Yeah. Osha. You kidding me?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get out of here.

[James Petregallo]

So during their marriage, the first year of their marriage, she said that. This is amazing. She marries a turpentine worker, and things aren't all settled during the first year they're married. Honeymoon period. Okay. He tried to rape his aunt.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

He tried to rape his own aunt.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ew. What? What the fuck, man?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. But his uncle shot at him and he ran away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

His uncle was not impressed, not having this shit.

[James Petregallo]

Harless Hollister, whatever the fuck you want to call yourself. Boom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

At least there's one sane person in Florida.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. And the sanest guy is the guy shooting at somebody. That's the craziest thing here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shooting at his nephew, raping his wife.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck, man? He tried to rape his aunt.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. So he ends up having a son with her, of course, because he's got to be fertile if he's this fucking stupid. Gross. So after that, well before the son was born, Harless went off to Florida while his son Willie James was born, and he didn't return until the baby was 2 months old. Just left for 4 months when the. When his wife was pregnant. Then Jimmy sue said he banged My head against the wall. And he beat me up very often. Then, luckily for her, he finally abandoned her in 1957. Thank fuck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thank God.

[James Petregallo]

He left where she had to get a job as a cook at the local jail to support her son. And she described her son as. Ain't got no temper like his pa.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know. That's confusing.

[James Petregallo]

His pa's got a temper and he ain't got it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, that's good. He's a calm kid.

[James Petregallo]

He's a calm kid. He's not a jerk like his dad, which is terrific, I guess. So he was been when he was around Westport, he went four months without a job. And then he'd been a handyman for the last two months doing landscaping and shit like that. And that's when he's been hanging around this neighborhood. He drove, apparently. He. His boss that he worked for said, quote, harless drove a relative of mine up from Florida about six months ago. He just sort of took a vacation until he started working with me two months ago. So he wasn't doing anything. He said that this boss said that the boss's brother Clyde have a long. Have a cleaning business. And, you know, they hire guys all the time. And he seemed like a good guy. So here's this good guy. This is who Gail is trapped in a room with, tried to rape his aunt. Yeah, that's where we're at right now. So I am not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And is that the second rape or is that the one that we.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's. He didn't get charged with that. That was just family affair. I shot at him, he ran away. Everything's fine. That was an official. Yeah. So who knows how many people, especially in the 50s, even less people reported rapes. I mean, he might have been doing this everywhere. He's a bad, bad, bad man. So. Got a temper like his palm. So Gail said he grabbed me and put a piece of cord around my neck and started choking me. I tried to pull the cord loose and he forced me back into my bedroom, held. Held me with the cord as he locked the door. Then he started choking me again. Holy shit. She said. I fought him as hard as I could, but he pushed me back onto my bed just then. My mother must have heard me struggling and choking, and she started pounding on the door and shouting my name. I guess then I must have fainted or passed out from being choked. So. Wow. She gets her consciousness back here, comes to, and there's nobody there. She's alone in a room. So she goes downstairs and sees Harless on top of her mother on the floor with his hand around her neck, choking her mom. So she tries to help her mother. By the way, Harless is six'three £195, so he's my size an inch shorter. So that's a pretty big guy, you know what I mean? So she's trying. She's a 14 year old trying to help with a physically imposing person here. But what ends up happening is he just sees that she's awake and then grabs them both and drags them both back to the mother's bedroom where he chokes both of them and places a rope around Gail's neck. And so this is how Gail describes it. Apparently he went to the door, unlocked it, and started choking my mother. When I came to, I ran out into the hallway and the man was bending over my mother and was choking her with a cord. She had been forced down to the floor and was fighting and screaming. The man then forced us into my mother's bedroom. This is fucking crazy. Then she said my mother asked him if he wanted money, and he said he didn't want any money.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

She then asked, why are you doing this? And he said, quote, you wouldn't understand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is for fun.

[James Petregallo]

Which I honestly think he's being honest. You wouldn't understand what a rapist and a monster guy feels like here. So then Gail said, why do you hate us? Like you must hate us to do this to us. Why are you doing this? And he said, quote, I don't hate you. You wouldn't understand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I hate me.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So then he started choking her after that, after she said, why do you hate us? And he choked her unconscious again. So now she's been choked unconscious twice now, Gail, when she regained consciousness, she was on the floor with her hands tied. Hog tied, basically. Hands and feet and feet bound. And her mother was on the floor beside her with a rope around her neck, unconscious and breathing heavily. So he, like, left her there. So Gail said, I kept fainting and waking up, fainting and waking up. When I came to, he was choking my mother again. And I screamed, stop, stop. The man then ran over to Gail. Harless does, picks her up, drags her in her own bedroom. Yeah, he tied her hands and feet here again because this was. She was untied. And then whatever. The mom was tied. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the safest sponsor ever. Simply safe. Absolutely. These people will keep you safe. It's amazing, you know, that every 26 seconds a burglary takes place in the United States. According to the FBI, that means that by the time this podcast is over, dozens and dozens of homes will have been targeted, ransacked. God knows what happens here. So protect your home before it's too late. With SimpliSafe Proactive Security System. Simplisafe helps stop threats before they even have a chance to break in. Named best home security system by U.S. news & World Report five years in a row. And by us for about the last eight years as well, if you trust us. Believe me, you want SimpliSafe. So visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and your first month free. That's simplisafe.com small there's no safe like simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

This show, Small Town Murder is brought to you by BetterHelp. Get yourself some therapy, everybody. Honestly here. We often hear about, you know, red flags that you should avoid. That's a lot of a thing. It's become a real phrase now. Real cliche. But why don't you focus also you look at like green flags and friends and partners look for good things as well. And maybe you're not sure what that looks like, though therapy can help you figure that out. What are positive things? What are the green flags? And then you can practice them in your relationship. It's absolutely effect. And so honestly, we absolutely are huge advocates for this. It really, really helps. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable. It's convenient. They Support serve over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists, wide ranges of specialties there. Here's the coolest part. You're not getting along with your therapist. You're just not feeling it. You can switch at any time, no extra charge. Wow. The thing is, they want you to get help. That's it. And you can do it with BetterHelp. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Smalltown Murder today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelph e lp.com Smalltalk Town Murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Then he went back to the mother's room and she heard him pulling out drawers and dumping shit on the floor. She said, I called to my mother, but there was no answer. He comes back in into her room. Well, he cut her bonds, first of all, she was bound. And then he cut them and brought her back into the room, and then bound her again. Okay. Then left the room, returned and untied her again. He's untied her and tied her up like five times already.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that about?

[James Petregallo]

He orders her to change into a different nightgown. Yeah, put on a different nightgown. Get your fucking robe and your slippers. Okay. Then he tied her up again. Then he covers her up with a quilt. Like, makes like a big Santa sack with her. Basically gets a big quilt, covers her all up with that and carries her downstairs. He then takes her outside, puts him. Puts her on the floor of the backseat of his car and drives away with her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

He just took her. Okay. So Gail said her words were, when the man returns, he wrapped me in a blanket after warning me to keep quiet and took me downstairs and outside, where he put me in the back car. In the back of his car, on the floor. Gone. Okay. Gone by nine. Fifteen. Out of there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. It makes you feel like she was the reason he came there.

[James Petregallo]

It's kind of the opposite, actually. We find out. But, yeah, it's weird. 6:30pm, Pierre gets home from work. He gets home, he found his house dark. What the fuck? The living room's in just complete disarray. The bedroom's a mess. What's going on? No, he can't find anybody. No one in the bedroom. No one in the living room. No one in any of the bedrooms. He then says he has to go to the bathroom, opens up the bathroom door and finds his wife Isabel, in her nightgown, dead as can be, sitting on the toilet with her head resting against the wall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

He fucking posed her on the toilet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's wild.

[James Petregallo]

With her head resting against the wall. Yeah. She'd been dead for hours already. So he. Oh, Jesus Christ. Ran out, called 911. Or at the time, just called the local police or did whatever he could here. It turns out she died from asphyxiation due to strangulation caused by a rope or clothesline around her neck. Marks encircled her neck, could have been made by clotheslines like the ones used to bind them both here. Wow. So this is. This is fucking crazy. So clotheslines are a big thing. All of this tying up is done with clotheslines, by the way. So let's get into the hell car here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He just drove around for hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Drove around the countryside for hours? What is that about just driving around? Once he stopped and lit a cigarette. And Gail asked, what are you going to do now? And he said, haven't made My mind up yet. And then drove off again. At one point, he stops, gets her out of the car, puts her in the trunk and drives away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very indecisive.

[James Petregallo]

Man is no idea how if he wants you tied up, if he wants you in the car, in the trunk. He has no clue. He. Gail said we drove around for a long time. Then he stopped in a lonely place and put me in the trunk of the car. My hands were tied behind my back. This is terrifying. Then they drove around again for a long time. She said, I just felt driving and turns and all the normal driving things. Then they stop at a restaurant, a bar restaurant. And she said he opened up the trunk and asked me if I wanted a chicken sandwich. Not particularly, no.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the best one in town.

[James Petregallo]

Not really, she said. I shook my head and told him I wanted to go home. You take me home. I don't want a chicken fucking sandwich. You're strangling me all the time here. This is crazy. So that's fucking wild. Okay. He then he says he's going to get a sandwich. He takes her out of the trunk, places her in the back seat, ties her hands behind her back and to the rear door handle of the car. He then left to go get the sandwich. He returned shortly, telling her that the sandwich wouldn't be ready for like a half hour. And at that point he untied her and took off her nightgown. And what she said, quote, did something to her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He then he rapes this young girl, which is fucking horrible, in this car, which is a nightmare, obviously. And, yeah, he then placed her on the floor with her hands tied behind her back and used another rope to tie her to the door handle again. Then I guess he went in to get the sandwich.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Came out, got the sandwich and he, you know, this was. And he asked, offered her some. She didn't want any. She said afterwards, meaning after he attacked her, I pleaded with him for a drink of water and he left me. Okay. He left her. She. Oh, my God. She struggled. She said, quote, I struggled with the ropes as hard as I could and managed to. She, like ripped her fucking skin off to get the ropes off her hands. Like chew your arm off to make an escape. Basically pulls it off, then tries to untie the one in the handle, but she's still tied up and she only has one hand. She said, I quote, I then pushed the handle with my head and fell out face first.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

She stripped her fucking hands apart, struggling, and opened a door with her head. Those Are those big, those big handles? I mean this is a survival. Like this is. This is like the guy driving the snowmobile while he's bleeding and shot and all that. This is crazy. And this is a 14 year old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a big chrome handle that you got a. Beat the shit out of it with your head. Yeah. Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

This is fucking crazy. So now she's still tied up, her hands are tied behind her, she's sobbing. Her. Her clothes are soaked in blood. Yeah, she's sobbing. She's. She just takes off and fucking runs as fast as she can. Hands tied behind her back, in a bloody nightgown, screaming bloody murder. She goes to the nearest house she finds and just kicks the door till somebody opens. Was about 6pm and so she'd been a prisoner for. This is going on 13 hours here. Not 13, but yeah, about 13. Almost so. Or no, a little less than that. So the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's like 10 hours.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So this is Mary Burgo is the woman in the house. And she found. This is in Norwalk. She found Gail on her front porch bleeding and tied up and said, holy shit, child, come inside. And so she tells her the story. Gail tells her what just happened to her. And this lady Mary Burgo calls the police. Then she called her home, she called Pierre and Isabelle's house, Gail's home, to let her know that she's alive. You know what I mean? So then she's transported to the hospital. After that they take her to the hospital. This is crazy. Now, before all of this, they. Before they take her to the hospital, the cops advise that she be kept under heavy guard. Yeah, until the murderer and kidnapper is caught. Because, quote, I'm sure he would try to kill her if he got the chance. Because she can identify him. Absolutely. So where the fuck is Harless now? Besides shitting his pants? Yeah, you'd imagine driving as fast as he could towards some other jurisdiction would be what he's doing towards Canada or Mexico. Well, we'll find out here. Number one, the bartender and two patrons of the Calypso Tavern. That's where the chicken sandwich was purchased. Remembered that a man fitting the description given by Gail bought a chicken sandwich at about 6:00. The bartender noticed him particularly because his customers usually didn't order food at that hour. When the fuck are they eating at 6 o'clock?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the time, isn't it?

[James Petregallo]

They eat at 10 o'clock, they eat at 3 o'clock. I have no idea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They usually drink their dinner and yeah, chicken Sandwiches are ordered around 9pm Will people eat late?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. The bartender noticed this Harless particularly because his customers usually didn't order food. And he observed the man's left ear was lower than his right ear and it stuck out in his. I don't know, stuck out to him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He must be real slanted for this guy to notice.

[James Petregallo]

No shit, man. Like really off to notice that. It's gotta be like at least like a 2 inch difference, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that a bad haircut or are you real misshapen?

[James Petregallo]

Real fucked up? Jesus Christ. Oh man. So the inspector for the Norwalk police talked with Herman and Clyde Whitmore who own the landscaping and housekeeping firm that he worked for. And I guess they're retained by many, many, well, well to do families in the area and yeah, all this shit. And they said he confirmed that yes, their crew had worked at the salon house two weeks before and one of their temporary employees does fit the description of the fugitive. And he said only you should also say he has heavy lines under his eyes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You should also say that diagonal head.

[James Petregallo]

And a fucked up lopsided head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's in italics.

[James Petregallo]

So the land. This is his landlady, Mrs. Elizabeth Richard told police that Harlan might be the man you're seeking. She said only you should say he has a heart shaped face and a narrow chin. It's getting better.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He is a hideous.

[James Petregallo]

A narrow chin and a fucked up ear thing. You talk to three more people, he's gonna have a horn. This is crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Natalie's heart head man.

[James Petregallo]

And she added, he and his wife Lucille were nice quiet people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got a wife.

[James Petregallo]

And they said were? What do you mean were? And she said, oh, they left here last night about 9:30 without saying goodbye. She said. I wasn't surprised though because he went off yesterday morning and told Lucille, when I come back, be ready because we're going away. He, he, he planned this. He said, I'm gonna go out and do some raping and pillaging. You get your shit together because then we're gonna fucking flee. But instead what he did was he went to sleep that night. They slept there that night. Left in the morning. He was tired, all tuckered out from his adventures here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was a big day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, big day. They asked what kind of person he was and the landlord said Harless was a pleasant sort. He'd just come here after a day of working, sit and watch tv. He offered pleasant company to me, him and his wife. One of those where they probably rented a Room, and they all had to watch TV together in the living room. So, yeah, he went home, went to bed. After that, him and his common law wife took off, heading south. That's that. Investigators couldn't say whether they were. The motive for the crime was robbery, kidnapping, rape. Who knows? All three, we don't know. They expected to find the house empty or, you know, they said they thought maybe he expected to find the house empty or was surprised when it wasn't just the wife. Because if he watches every day, husband leaves at this time, kid leaves at that time, wife's in the house by herself. But it's Veterans Day. But he's not off today. So he probably didn't realize that the kids had off from school that day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

So she surprised him. They're thinking that she surprised him. He's like, oh, shit. Fuck. And that's child. Yeah, there's two people. What do we do here? But he decided, well, that's the one I want to fucking kidnap and just fucking attack and destroy forever. So his boss is surprised at all this? I would hope so. Like, that's what I expected from him. But I hired him anyway to go into people's private residences. I thought that was good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, his head. I should have known.

[James Petregallo]

It's all lopsided and stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't believe they sent that guy to the nice neighborhood.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Still a landscaper. Still get what you do?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Bringing down the property value.

[James Petregallo]

His employer voiced astonishment, saying, a good worker, a fellow who didn't ask questions. Is that a good worker just doesn't ask questions, just does what he sold.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He wasn't one to talk much, but he gave me a good day's work. Somehow, though, I just figured he didn't care much about anything. He never objected to anything, and he never favored anything either. He just. Whatever. He was just like, all right. He's like Richardson from Deadwood. So he also says, I wonder what made him do it. I guess he wonders now himself what made him do it. Probably not, because he's a rapist. I think that's what he does.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You wouldn't understand, man.

[James Petregallo]

You would. Like he said, you wouldn't understand. I don't understand. You don't understand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't get it either, man.

[James Petregallo]

And if you're listening and you understand, I'm worried about you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Arrest yourself.

[James Petregallo]

Arrest yourself. Holy shit. By the way, this neighborhood, it was like a bomb fucking hit it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They can't imagine.

[James Petregallo]

Went bonkers. All of a sudden, not only are doors locked, extra Locks fucking double pane locked. Wind. I mean, it is. Everybody is a big. All of it, guns, everything else. Yeah. They're waiting because he hasn't been caught. They think he's stalking the all their neighborhood here now at the hospital. It's Monday night when Gail comes in. She sleeps through most of Tuesday. They probably gave her a sedative and said, fucking calm down. Her father was persuaded to stay away from her. Okay. If you're this 14 year old girl who's just been fucking attacked and raped and all, you need your people. I think. I think seeing your father would make you feel that's some security. Yeah, no one's gonna fucking come get me now. Like there'd be some feeling of grounding and security. Instead they convince him that it's better that he stays away because he will be. She will be able to see on his face his sadness. And she'll know her mother's dead and that's not good for her recovery right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They said maybe he just is sad that his daughter's hurt and we're not gonna talk about mom right now. We're worried about you.

[James Petregallo]

That they said, let's wait till. Let's give her a couple days. So her brothers were notified, her one brother was rushing home from college. And they even let Paul fly home from Germany where he was stationed in the army. Your mother's dead, your sister's raped. I think you can come home. That gets you some R and R, right? I would hope so. Now by Wednesday, now the newspapers all have the story in it. And she yelled at everybody and said, is my mother dead? And the father broke into sobs and said, yes, she's dead. She didn't even know her mother was dead until Wednesday. This poor girl. Holy shit. Police talked to the press. A police officer told reporters that, quote, she is a very brave girl. No one could have gone through a more terrible experience. But she's feeling much better today. And eventually she will have to know about her mother. And then she was. Yeah, then they found her because she read that quote, probably. You know what I mean? Fucking newspaper. So the State Motor Vehicle Bureau provided the information that Connecticut plates 574252 had been issued for a turquoise and cream 56 Mercury hardtop sedan owned by Harless Miller. That's a dope car. Pretty dope car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good color, too. Shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not bad at all. He's described as 31.63,195, with obviously narrow chin, heart shaped face and uneven ears.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Metallica.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they're thinking, is he headed to Sarasota? Maybe Right where he was. They talked to the sheriff down there and he says, quote, I don't think he's headed here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

Okay, can you give us any reason? He said, quote, he's too well known and he knows it. Why not try Valdosta, Georgia? That's where he comes from. Sure, but, you know, don't bother me. I got stuff to do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So a Valdosta police, the Valdosta Repeat Police reported that Miller haven't. Hasn't lived there since he and his wife and son, 10 at the time his old wife moved to Sopperton, Georgia. Soperton or Sopperton, Georgia, which is where he was born. And he says, by the way, his wife's name is Jimmy sue, not Lucille. That's because Lucille's his new wife. Jimmy sue was his wife down there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This idiot has no idea. Caught up with him.

[James Petregallo]

He said, Lucille must be a girlfriend. Nope, it's his wife. So. That is fucking amazing. This county sheriff down there where Sopperton is said that Miller was not in Sopperton, but he'll keep an eye out for him just in case. So Friday, Gail is still in the hospital. This is the day that she's. That mom's gonna be buried. Isabelle is buried this day. And that since they did not know where the kidnapper was, still, the police captain asked that Gail be kept in the hospital and miss her mother's funeral. So she can be protected in the hospital because they haven't caught this man yet. So they're using a hospital as like a. She's like a hostage in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I doubt a kidnapper is going to show up to the funeral to kidnap or kill the little girl while she's.

[James Petregallo]

Holding hands with her father.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's a lot of witnesses.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, and there's. And she's a murder victim, so I bet there'll be cops there. I don't think they're gonna pop up and take her. Probably, I would say. I mean, you could just. It'd probably be a lot cheaper for everyone just to have a cop hang out out in front of their house. That would be the cheapest and easiest way to do this. And probably the most effective, too. November 16, 1962. This is about the same time that Isabelle is being put into her grave in Tarrytown. Beautiful place, 900 miles away. There's some drama here. Here we go. Word reached the sheriff that a turquoise and white Mercury with Connecticut license plates was parked at Aunt Mary's house. His Fucking mother's house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Which is off the road a bit on the outskirts of Sopperton. When an 8 with an agent for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and three FBI men, they drove down. This area is called the Bottoms, by the way. Yeah, not great. They drove down and saw the Mercury in the yard and a young woman leaning against it. She was looking at a pickup truck, also parked in the yard. Aunt Mary sat there on her back porch. So they said. The sheriff said, is Harless here? Aunt Mary didn't answer because she thought the sheriffs were there to arrest her son for non support of his wife and child because he abandoned them. He's a deadbeat. So she just sits there silent. And the cop notices movement beneath a bag in the back of the truck. Oh, he ran over, pulled up the burlap and yelled, come out of there. And Harless stood up and there he was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

He just jumped in the back of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A truck and hid?

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He submitted to arrest without resistance. Yeah, he. And this is fucked up too. We don't know. Okay. First he was described as two men in the car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then it was him and Lucille. But now when they're here, they're calling her Rosalie Millage.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

The woman he's with who's 23. But I don't know if that's what Lucille goes by, if that's her middle name or. I don't know what the fuck it is. But I. From what I know, he. She is with him because I've seen a picture of the two of them in the sheriff's office together. So she was there and they're like, this. Is this him and his wife, Lucille? So he didn't put up a fight. And they were. Both. Him and his wife were taken in to the Sopperton police station before he was told why he was under arrest. He said I. He said, quote, I never knew any family name salon up there. All I knew up there was my bosses I worked for. And he said that he had that you guys have hunted down the wrong guy. I didn't do this. And I'm not fleeing from anything. I'm just coming to see my wife.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sir.

[James Petregallo]

You're in your head, bro.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So easy to draw.

[James Petregallo]

She got you. Yeah. Fuck. They said you were coming down here anyway. It's just a coincidence that you left the day after a murder. He said, well, I knew it would get cold up there and my landscaping job would play out. That's what it was I knew about, you know, it was Gonna be cold, he said. So I was heading back to Florida, and I stopped to see my mother. And the woman said she knew nothing about the crime. She was just returning to Florida with Harless to escape the winter. That's all. And they said, you know, they said, you got the wrong guy. You got the wrong guy. So they said, okay, Why'd you shave off your mustache? Why can't you explain who owns the red bathrobe belt found in your trunk? Oh, yeah. Along with clothing that belongs to them, blankets from their house, and a narrow brimmed hat. Exactly the type described by Gail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why would you keep that?

[James Petregallo]

Why you have all that, sir? Oh, and they're gonna find tons of clothesline all over the place and everything else. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Chime. Things are expensive. The world is an expensive place, and it only gets more expensive every day. And the last thing you want is a credit card debt hanging over you. Nobody wants that. It's horrible stuff. What you can do is enter the Chime Credit Builder card. This is a secured credit card with no annual fees. You can build credit with money you set aside and avoid interest or expensive debt. Those terrible, high, awful interest rates that you get on some of those credit cards.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chasing your tail sometimes.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's hard. It's what it is. You'll never get ahead. Plus, you can get access to my pay and get up to $500 of your pay before payday with no mandatory fees. That's excellent. You gotta do it here. You get a Visa credit card. No annual fees, interest or credit check. That's. That's good stuff there. You use it everywhere. Visa cards are accepted. So it's not some special weird card you can't use anywhere. Turn your everyday purchases into steps toward your financial goals with Chime's secure credit card. Get started [e-mail] SmallTownMurder. That's chime.com SmallTown Murder Chime it feels like progress. The Chime Credit Builder Visa card is issued by the Bancorp NA or Stride Bank NA Spot Me. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Out of network ATM withdrawal and OTC advance fees may apply. Late payment may negatively impact your credit score. Results may vary. MyPay eligibility requirements apply. Credit limits range from $20 to $500. Go to Chime.com disclosures for details. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a healthy, delicious item. Herobred. And we're both trying to get healthier this new year. Jimmy had an eye opening, doctor's appointment and things like that. So we're trying to get healthier. And I'm telling you right now, this hero bread is a good step in this direction. It's delicious and it is really good for you and it's really excellent. They have the sliced bread is good, the bagels, the tortillas. I know you've been ranting about the tortillas, they're so good. With herobread, you can focus on your health goals and still indulge in the soft, fluffy experience you love, but guilt free. I really love the little Hawaiian rolls too. They're so good. They're so good. The Hawaiian rolls, they're legit. They're fluffy. They're exactly how you want them to be. You'd never know it's low carb and high fiber bread. From the texture you get the soft fluffy experience you know and love with your savory breakfast sandwich, late night grilled cheese taco Tuesday. Do it. No compromise, just flavor. Ultra low net carbs, zero grams of sugar, high in fiber. It's fantastic. Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use the code. Small town murder at checkout. That's small town murder at H e R O co. And now back to the show. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Sono Bello. You know, the most known secret with celebr and influencers and all these famous people is so many of them have had lipo. They've had lipo. Whether it's a little touch up here or a total makeover, nobody has a perfect body. That's the thing. They may look like it on tv, but there's things that help that absolutely Lipo now has changed. And Sono Bello's been at the forefront with using LAL technology and getting those beautiful and natural outcomes. For each person looking real natural, our friends at Sonobello are offering their best deal. You're now included in their winter savings event. But appointments are limited, so please get on this. Sonobello doctors are masters in micro laser fat removal, a brilliant technique that removes stubborn fat permanently wherever your problem areas are. Tummy, love handles, thighs, arms, it's gone in one comfortable visit. Eating healthy and workouts are great. Keep doing that. But if you want to lose that stubborn fat in one visit, check out Sono Bello Save Big during their winter savings event. Schedule your free consultation [e-mail] Smalltown Murder that's s O N O B e l l o.com Smalltown Murder now back to the show. So agents of the FBI joined the investigation here. Obviously they went up to do this and they charge Lucille and Harris with unlawful flight to escape prosecution. And then they'll put everything else on later. By the way, the Mercury that he was driving went through eight states undetected on the way back. He got pulled over three times on the way from Florida up to his mom's house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh wow.

[James Petregallo]

Going north. He got pulled over three different fucking times but not at all on the way down. He must have thought he's got away with it, didn't care and they didn't have like a, you know, nationwide plate system. So yeah, then he says some incriminating shit when they get him in the police station. Well this is fucking crazy. They get him in the Westport police headquarters here and they will talk about this is before they get him to Georgia or to the headquarters in Westport. But he's in Georgia at this point and he's quoted as saying, quote, if everybody says I did it, then I must have, must have, must have. And that he said he was quote, sorry for what he'd done to that woman. Not good. Both of them, not fucking good. So they take him back to Connecticut. They're arraigned in Georgia before the U.S. commissioner Martha Daniel. Then they were held in custody without bail in Augusta and they waived extradition and were driven back to Connecticut by the Fairfield County District Attorney, his investigator. And the two men spelled each other driving on the 875 mile trip. They made it in 17 and a half hours. Good time right there. So they arrive in Connecticut at 5:34am now while he's in jail, a Connecticut county detective and a Westport police sergeant went to Georgia. This is before they took him back up and examined his car without getting a search warrant. What just went down there to pick through it. It then the car is brought back to Connecticut, they do a full take apart examination. Again, no fucking warrant. They get no search warrant for this shit at all. They just said, oh what the fuck, we can do that. The upholstery, by the way, teeming with blood and hair from Gale, just all over the place. I mean physical evidence is a big deal here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Lucille's a dummy.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking unbelievable. Certain objects taken from the car were submitted to the state laboratory in Hartford for examination. No search warrant. Again, it's a lot man with this no search warrant, including they found human Hair identified as Gale's on the crank handle of the rear window and on the rear seat and floor, completely corroborating everything. They found blood stains on the COVID of the rear seat, the blood being the same type as Gale's, which is as close as you could get back. Then they do a lineup, they bring him back, and Gale is asked to identify him. And. And she does. In the lineup, obviously, she was brought to headquarters and picked him out of a lineup of six men. Now, the officer later said the girl was given instructions by him, viewed the lineup without pointing to anyone in it, then left the room and talked with the officer, after which time she returned to the lineup and pointed him out. So at this point, he is a lawyer because he's been arrested. And his lawyer is saying the identification wasn't made on the first viewing, only on the second viewing. And the officer probably told her who to pick. Now, my thing is, she's 14. And back then, everybody in 1962, everyone on earth hadn't seen a million police procedurals where they would show lineups and stuff. She might have asked, can they see me? She might have asked, is this safe? She might have asked, can he hear me? She might have asked anything on fucking earth. Yeah. So that's an interesting thing here, but the court, they're gonna. He's gonna go to trial. The prosecution here says, my client wasn't there and didn't kill, but he was. But if he was there, he didn't mean to commit the murder. He wasn't there and didn't do it, but if he did, he was an accident. So either way, take it as one of those are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's our defense.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He said, this is the prosecution. That's wild, man. The prosecution said, by Gail's story, I say Harless Miller was there and murdered Mrs. Salon. And they said that he was acquainted with the layout of the home because he's been in there before. And he. Though the defense says he contends he was in a bar part of the day of the murder, but the state introduced testimony that he wasn't there. As a matter of fact, he was there at the exact time she said he was getting the exact type of food that she said he did. Did. Yeah. So charging that Miller, that Harlan Harless went to the salon home with a rope, the prosecutor claimed that if he was as startled as the defense claims the assailant may have been, why didn't he kill Mrs. Salon downstairs, where Gail testified she saw him attempting to strangle her? There was no frantic situation. He had time to premeditate. Yeah. He was deciding what he was going to do. They said if the law requires that the eyewitnesses were needed at the exact moment of expiration, how few cases would we be able to prove? Yeah, someone had to watch you murdering a person. Yeah. They said there's no question of Dale's identification or Gail's identification. She was with Miller for about 12 hours under all sorts of circumstances. She knows him. She'll pick his ass out. They also talk about the rope. There's several. There's evidence which attempted to connect him with the murder. They said a piece of rope which had been tied to her wrists was introduced. But the home she ran to that the girl fled to. Afterwards, she testified she thought the piece was heavier than the one that was shown in court. The woman from the. Not the gal who was tied up, the woman whose house she went to said, I thought the rope was different, which is very weird. Yet a police officer examining a piece of rope in court said he was able to identify it because of two knots tied in the two ends. So they said, yeah, this connects to that. So another piece was introduced, found on the ground in the rear of his home of Harless House by Westport police a few days after many newsmen and other spectators had visited the premises and failed to turn up the ropes. So they're saying that could have been planted by anybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

But nobody knew at that point that it was a rope with certain knots. So, yeah, they said the type A blood found on the seat covers of the car which matched Gale's blood, quote, could be anybody's blood.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And also, he's a. He has a common physical appearance. A lot of people look like him. Really?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've never seen anybody that looks like him. And I've only heard of description.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. And at the fact that back then, 63 was extremely tall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Right. Now, in The United States, 64 and over is 1% of the population. What do you think it was back then to be 6 3, 6 4. That was considered a giant back then. So that's crazy. So, Gale. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of things to pick out. The ear, the weird. The fucking heart face. So Gail testifies. She has to. And apparently they try to get a mistrial because she's describing what took place in the automobile and all of that kind of thing. And. And accusing him of committing heinous acts. So they're like, mistrial. This is ridiculous. The. They said we have no facts before us on the record concerning this incident during the trial except the bare statement and the finding that the defendant moved for a mistrial based on the witnesses mischaracterization of this offense. They're like, she's a liar, that one. And they try to get a mistrial. Then Harless himself has testified. He has to testify too. He takes the witness stand, you know, fucking. He's gotta. Gotta do some acting here. He described his position in the two lineups in which Gale viewed him and testified to what he wore for each lineup. He said he could see the legs and bottom of the coat of the, quote, lady or woman who wore or viewed the lineup and could hear her voice despite the bright lights which were shining on him. Yeah. It's because lights don't make sound different. That's why. Generally they can make it louder if.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You got a headache, but that's it.

[James Petregallo]

That's about it, yeah. Did you have a migraine at the time? No. Asked whether his name was on the sweatshirt he wore for one of the lineups. He said the word Miller was up his shirt for one of the lineup appearances. So that's interesting. Yeah, that wouldn't be great. But she's standing there, right there going, that guy did this, right? Period.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The defense in closing recounted the events. And they said he. Miller came up here. He gave you his best effort to recount the events. He said that he was. His client was upset because of the argument he had with his wife the night before. And he said no one can recall what he did. No one can recall what he did every minute of every given day. Which is true. That's true enough. Wow. They call her Lucille Harris and Rosalie Millage, interchangeably. His wife, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Don't get it. So the lawyer says you must examine every detail because a man's life is at stake. Said his summation required more than 20 minutes. And he was. The defense was very dramatic. He said, in this case many questions have arisen as to who, how and when. The state has attempted to prove by one witness all these elements. One witness who you held hostage for hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He said it was difficult to even cross examine Gail. It was difficult to ask her questions about the thing that happened to her mother. The question is whether Gail told the whole story. He says, alluding to several times during her testimony when she didn't remember something or didn't know. You know, because it was the most traumatic thing that's happened to a fucking eighth grader. Yeah. The state had failed to prove premeditation, he said. Also, he said the excitement described in the home that day was a continuing thing. There was no time to reflect. None. Yeah. Pointing out there were two telephones that were not used in the home. The public defender said this fact proves that this was an excitable period of time. They didn't even call the cops because they were getting strangled intermittently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What a fucking wild thing to say.

[James Petregallo]

Then he says this and this. I would assume if you said this now, a jury would come out of the box and fucking beat you with hammers. It's dangerous to rely on one witness, especially a 14 year old impressionable girl. In a first degree murder case. You can't depend on a rape victim.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She doesn't know she's 14.

[James Petregallo]

How does she know who raped her? That's ridiculous. He said that this case would require intensive deliberation on the part of the jury, which he said must decide the life or liberty of Harless Miller. He also said that they must prove homicide, an unlawful killing done by another, and that the accused committed the acts resulting in the death and that those acts were committed with the specific intention of causing death. Can't have an accident here. So the jury is eight men, four women, which I'm shocked. There's four women on the jury back then. A lot of these back then. Remember we just did the case 60s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They don't have any rights.

[James Petregallo]

No. Well, on the one we were talking about on the Patreon, the lady from 19, right around this time, it was the same kind of shit. And she got acquitted by an all male jury and it was like 1963, so. And there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and shit like that. They find him guilty. First degree murder and rape. Yeah, you really have to here. But they did also recommend mercy as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

They recommended mercy, which means they did not want him executed, they said. They also recommended life in prison without the benefit of parole. Don't kill him. Just hang on to him forever and ever. And now after the trial, by the way, his wife Lucille Rosalie is released from custody. She had no idea what was going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, she didn't know. She's just real dumb.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I think she just. I think he found an idiot to do what he wants with and probably. So she went back to Georgia. Now, Pierre Salon took Gail on a long trip to Europe and then moved with her from the horrible house here in Connecticut to a nice apartment in Manhattan. And he probably moved to fucking Central Park. And it was wow. Awesome. That's good. So, by the way, there's a new bill introduced right around this time. The headline slaying leads to plea for bill. Basically saying that there should be, like, a salesman has to register because he's knocking door to door and doing all this type of shit. Back then he had to register. I don't think you have to do that now. But they said this should apply to domestic staff and landscapers as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They said the applicant would know he was on file and would have to be without a police record to begin with, for all applications would be sent to the FBI in Washington headquarters. So they said yes. State Rep. John Shostak, introduced or informed, was informed at his home about the proposal, and he said he was in favor. He said, I shall definitely propose such a bill to the state legislature. I discussed this very subject with a friend last night, and I think it's needed and needed right now. A photo, fingerprints, and description of all house cleaners should be on record in local police offices. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How about not trusting your help?

[James Petregallo]

That's. Yeah, no shit. That's interesting. The state legislature convenes. This guy's the former mayor, and he indicated he would first have to consult with persons knowledgeable in bonding and registration to prepare an accurate proposal. Yeah, you need people that know how to write a law. So. 1965.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Here's the appeal. The appeal is based on no warrant for his car search. Yeah, the Connecticut Supreme Court of Errors, which is a real thing back then. The Supreme Court of Errors, which sounds like they just fuck everything up all the time. They're looking for errors. They said. The. The. The crime, said Judge John M. Comley, speaking for a unanimous bench, was, quote, particularly revolting and atrocious. Yet the conviction of him for this, they said. The judge said not every search without a warrant is illegal. For example, a search which is an incident. Which is an incident to a lawful arrest, is proper, meaning you pull them out of the car. There's something sitting right there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But the search of Miller's car was remote from the arrest in both time and space. They searched it when he was in Connecticut two weeks later, and then brought it to Connecticut, did it again. Uh, the US Citizens immunity from such a legal search is a cornerstone of the Constitution, and the court is guarding against any erosion of that immunity. And also that he wanted a new lawyer as well. He said his lawyer didn't call the exact people he wanted to call. So he's a shit lawyer. Meanwhile, he's been in the bar since 1946. He's processed 800 cases, done 40 jury trials.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's done very well.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Prosecuted five appeals to the Supreme Court, securing reversals on three of them. So, I mean, he's fine. He's. The lawyer's fine. But the court overturns the verdict.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Overturned because he stay searched his car without a warrant, and a lot of that evidence was used against him, and he can't do that. And that may have swayed the jury beyond just the eyewitness.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Testimony. So that's pretty fucked up. And that doesn't mean he goes free.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, he's just going to try again.

[James Petregallo]

Just try again. So there's a retrial this time. No car evidence at all. Okay, who got on the car evidence here? So he was convicted again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And you got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You have plenty with everything else. You've got an eyewitness, for Christ's sake.

[James Petregallo]

Awful lot going on here. Convicted again and sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off life in prison again. Now then, there's a new law after that, though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Several months passed, and the Connecticut General assembly passed a Public Act 573, a law abolishing natural life sentences, meaning life without parole.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, so you gotta get parole.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. It went into effect Oct. 1. Now, Miller and three other inmates in the state, there's only four people in the whole state on that, hope to prove that the law is retroactive, and if they succeed, they'll be eligible for parole in 20 years. Now, what happened to Gail? Gail ended up attending the New York School of Interior Design and working many years at Vital enterprises in Vista, New York, as an interior designer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And then in 2013, at 64, she died.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Damn it.

[James Petregallo]

So poor Gail. Gail's dead 50 years later. But, yeah, she had a better 50 years than there. The house, by the way, 31 Stony Brook in Westport, is worth $4,651,000 right now, which is crazy. On Zillow, I tried to find what the fate of Harless was. I know for a fact he was in prison in the 80s because there was a video of him talking that I could only get a screenshot off of in the video. Wouldn't come up. I kept getting an error and it wouldn't work. So. But he was in the 80s, he was still in prison, and I don't know if he ever got paroled if he's dead. I tried to find his grave. I tried to find everything. I assume he's dead because he was born in like 1930. So unless he's 95, he's fucking dead because he was 31 in 1962. So he's got to be dead. But I don't know if he died in prison or if he ever got out again, and I hope not, because he's a dangerous son of a bitch. Here. That is a rapist forever right there. So there you go, everyone. That's Westport, Connecticut. Wow. And you can see why. It's like I said, normally not such an old episode. Literally, the last Connecticut episode was about a Fitbit solved the crime. So, I mean, normally we stay pretty modern, but this case, just that narrative of this poor fucking girl fighting for her life and surviving. I know it's horrible that there's murder and there's rape and all that, but it's also kind of like she survived.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's very similar to the Cheshire murders a little bit. But like he. This guy had a plan to get away. That's. Yeah, he super planned it out. Those two are just willy nilly sick. Sick fucks. This guy was gonna try to get away.

[James Petregallo]

He knew when he left the house that morning.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That he was gonna do this. He told his wife, be ready to fucking take off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So he was gonna do some shit. So there you go. Holy fuck. That's a crazy case. That's why I couldn't not do it. I had other cases. I'm like, this is. This is the. It's so crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Veterans Day fucked him.

[James Petregallo]

That Veterans Day fucked him. And I got to give just Gail as a fucking survivor, she's a fighter. And then she went on to have a nice life, you know what I mean? And good for her. It helps to be rich, but still good for her. You know what I mean? So there you go. Everybody there is Westport, Connecticut, if you like the show or anything about the show, please get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars and say something nice. Really helps drive us up the charts. And it is a free, quick, easy way to help the show if you'd like to do that. Other ways to help the show, you can go to a live show. Shut up and give me murder.com. get your tickets now because they're. Half the shows are sold out already. Shows months and months away are sold out. So get your tickets right now. Chicago, St. Louis, those are the next ones up in early May. And St. Louis is. I think it's sold out now. Maybe just our comps that need to be released, but it's just about sold out. And Chicago is pushing it. Chicago, always a huge crowd there. So great. You definitely want your tickets for there. Get them now and do [e-mail] is where you get all of those and everything else, merch and all that kind of shit. There's you should also follow on social media. Shut up. Yeah, shut up. And what is it at Small Town Murder. Small Town Murder on Instagram. I'm sorry, I am under the weather today. That's. That just came out. It's not good. That is. Yeah, it's Small Town Murder on Instagram and Smalltown pot on Facebook. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus materials, tons of it. Anybody $5 a month or above. Immediately you get hundreds of episodes of bonus shit you've never heard. New ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murderer, and you get it all. This week for crime and sports, we're gonna talk about disasters of all types. Industrial disasters, hot air balloons bursting into flames, all sorts of weird crazy shit. We'll talk all about it. Then for small town murder, we are going to talk about psychics when they actually get shit, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Cause we talk, we debunk psychic stuff all the time. We're always like, oh, that one's full of shit and this one's full of shit. Whether they're full of shit or not. A few times it actually worked. So sometimes they. Maybe it's lucky. Broken clock. Right. Twice a day. Or maybe they're psychic. We'll fucking find out and Talk about it. Patreon.com CrimeInSports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show because God damn it, we appreciate it and we want to tell you that what you're doing for us. So thank you very much for joining us. You want to follow us on social media? Shut upandgivemerder.com drop down menu. Head over there, follow us, hang out with us. Keep coming back each week because you can't get rid of us. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Matthew Scher]

In the 1980s, a swept the country.

[James Petregallo]

Hey Mike, I really like this white zinfandel.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, good, good. Now put it down.

[James Petregallo]

We're gonna try another one.

[Matthew Scher]

White Zinn became America's top selling wine. But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history. What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles.

[James Petregallo]

A big fraud, a multi million dollar.

[Matthew Scher]

Fraud sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business. The Licciardis. But the closer the feds got to them, the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit.

[James Petregallo]

At the time, I was paranoid. Threats, you touch my kids, I will kill you. And murder with a.22 caliber bullet to the head.

[Matthew Scher]

What started with a scheme to mislabel wine spilled into a blood soaked battle for succession. Welcome to bloodvines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad free on Wondery plus. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify.