#573 - Serial Killing Schizophrenic Cannibal - Bethesda, Maryland

Summary

Small Town Murder - Episode #573: Serial Killing Schizophrenic Cannibal - Bethesda, Maryland

Introduction

In Episode #573 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the chilling case of Haddon Clark, a serial killer from Bethesda, Maryland. Combining in-depth research with their signature comedic flair, James and Jimmy unravel the disturbing history and heinous crimes committed by Clark, shedding light on how a seemingly average suburban life concealed such darkness.

Background of Haddon Clark

Haddon Clark was born in 1951 in Troy, New York, into a family marked by instability and dysfunction. His father, also named Haddon Clark, was a brilliant chemist involved in significant inventions like Saran Wrap and fire-retardant carpeting. However, despite his professional success, Haddon Sr.'s relentless pursuit of money led the family to relocate frequently, disrupting Haddon's childhood.

James notes, “Haddon’s upbringing was anything but stable, with moves nearly twice a year, leaving him without a solid sense of home” ([03:32]).

Haddon’s mother, Flavia, descended from Mayflower settlers and was a homemaker who struggled to manage her four children amidst her husband’s absences and alcoholism. The environment at home was toxic, with frequent fights between his alcoholic parents, leaving Haddon and his siblings emotionally scarred.

Early Signs and Education

From a young age, Haddon exhibited troubling behaviors. He was a late walker and talker, which his mother attributed to complications during birth. Despite being sent to Yale’s Child Study Center at age four, Haddon's issues were misdiagnosed, leading to a mismanaged understanding of his mental health.

A pivotal moment came when, as a child, Haddon’s anger led him to deliberately crash into his brother’s head with a bike, causing severe injury. His mother dismissed his actions by blaming birth trauma, further neglecting his emotional needs.

James reflects, “His mother’s inability to recognize and address his behavioral issues clearly set the stage for future atrocities” ([28:31]).

Adolescence and Early Criminal Behavior

Haddon struggled academically, failing grades in elementary school and being labeled as having learning problems. His behavior continued to deteriorate, culminating in incidents of aggression towards peers and inappropriate interactions, such as attempting to engage in sexual acts with a raccoon he had kept as a pet.

At 15, after exhibiting violent tendencies and resisting psychiatric treatment, Haddon was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. His refusal to adhere to medication protocols only exacerbated his condition, leading to further isolation and erratic behavior.

The Murders

The first known murder occurred in October 1985 when Haddon abducted and murdered Sarah Pryor, a nine-year-old girl from Wayland, Massachusetts. Disguised in women’s clothing, Haddon lured Sarah under the pretense of helping her, brutally assaulting and murdering her. He dismembered her body, consumed parts, and attempted to conceal her remains in the woods near his brother’s house.

James narrates, “The level of premeditation and the disturbing nature of his crimes highlight the depths of Haddon’s madness” ([73:43]).

In addition to Sarah Pryor, Haddon confessed to murdering Laura, another young girl, in Bethesda. His heinous acts included not only murder but also acts of cannibalism, as he consumed parts of his victims.

Investigation and Arrest

Initially, Laura's father, Carl Doar, was wrongfully suspected due to a strained custody battle and his own violent tendencies. Despite his alibi, relentless investigation by authorities, combined with anonymous tips and forensic evidence, eventually implicated Haddon Clark.

At [116:40], James explains, “It was Haddon’s own confessions and the accumulation of incriminating evidence, including the discovery of Sarah’s remains years later, that led to his arrest.”

Trials and Imprisonment

Haddon Clark’s trial was swift and condemning. Pleading guilty to second-degree murder, he received a sentence of 30 years in prison. Throughout his incarceration, Clark exhibited further signs of his disturbed psyche, including multiple personalities and continued violent ideations.

James states, “Even in prison, Haddon couldn’t escape his demons, often boasting about his crimes and maintaining his alter ego, Kristen E. Bluefin” ([158:14]).

Haddon Clark in Prison

Inside the penitentiary, Clark’s behavior remained erratic. His cellmate, whom he believed to be Jesus, interacted with him in delusional conversations about his crimes. Clark’s artwork, consisting of innocent-looking yet eerie drawings of girls and landscapes, surfaced as potential psychological manifestations of his disturbed mind.

Notably, at [177:14], James shares, “Clark’s art is deceptively innocent, with wide-eyed girls and serene landscapes that belie the horror behind them.”

Conclusion

James and Jimmy conclude the episode by reflecting on the complexity of Haddon Clark’s character—a man who, despite his intelligence and skills, was utterly consumed by his mental instability and violent urges. They emphasize the importance of understanding the signs of severe mental health issues and the tragic outcomes when they go unaddressed.

James remarks, “Haddon Clark’s story is a sobering reminder of how troubled individuals can hide behind facades of normalcy, leading to unimaginable tragedies” ([181:58]).

Notable Quotes

• James on Haddon’s upbringing: “Haddon’s upbringing was anything but stable, with moves nearly twice a year, leaving him without a solid sense of home.” ([03:32])

• Jimmy on parental abuse: “He was beaten down that everybody's beaten up on.”

• James on Clark’s art: “Clark’s art is deceptively innocent, with wide-eyed girls and serene landscapes that belie the horror behind them.” ([177:14])

Final Thoughts

Small Town Murder Episode #573 offers a deep dive into the life and crimes of Haddon Clark, blending thorough investigative storytelling with the hosts' unique humor. For those intrigued by the dark corners of human psychology and true crime, this episode provides a comprehensive and engaging exploration of one of Bethesda’s most infamous killers.

Transcript

[James Petragallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

I'M Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another Absolutely Insane Top 10 Small Town Murder crazy people that we have today. Holy wow. It's just a lot. And we are gonna get to it. These drawings, I can't wait to show them to you. They are as creepy as it gets. We'll get to all that and more. First though, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com. what's there, you may ask. First, merch. Tons of merchandise. Number one, all the sayings you could want. Everything from bathmats to coffee cups. We got it. But also tickets to live shows. Get them right now. First of all, 4:19, April 19th, we'll be doing our 4:20 virtual live show.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's gonna be crazy.

[James Petragallo]

I have apparatus that will scare Jimmy to death that he's gonna have to smoke out of while we tell you a wild murder story. It's gonna be so much fun wherever you are in the world. If you have WI fi, you can do this and you can get this show. Absolutely. Get it. Shut up and givememurder.com right now. And also get tickets for the regular live shows as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragallo]

St. Louis just about sold out. I think there's a couple of tickets in the back there. Left in May and then Chicago the next night. Get your tickets. You can come to Chicago at the Riviera. San Diego, sold out. I think Madison is sold out. There's a lot of sold out shows. Portland, sold out. So get your tickets right now and get in there. Shut up and give me murder.com. you are definitely also gonna wanna listen to our other two shows, Crime in sports and your stupid opinions. Crime in Sports. Right now we're doing a series on Evel Knievel, which is just amazing. Yeah, gotta hear that. It's so much fun. You don't have to care about sports at all. The guy's jumping cars on a motorcycle. It's not sports.

[Jimmy Whisman]

American history. The guy was everything. So many people.

[James Petragallo]

Hugely popular. Also, Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get everything. First of all, hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription, new episodes every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder. You get it all my friends, this week, which you're going to get for crime and sports. We're going to talk about the Dolphins. Miami Dolphins bullying scandal. If I just say Dolphins, you'll Think dolphins are bullying each other, which would be. I don't know how we'd even.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Scandal man.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know how we'd even quantify that. But you bottlenose fuck, hey, quit being, Quit doing that. Quit stealing his tuna. I don't even know what you do. So we'll talk about that from back in 2012, Richie Incognito and all that. There's some new stuff that's come out recently. And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about the Amazon Review Killer, one of the craziest, weirdest guys we've ever heard of. So we'll talk about him. That and more. And you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. Here, Jimmy will mispronounce your name, even though we'd love to get it correct. Patreon.com crimeinsports that said, disclaimer. Time is a comedy show, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is.

[James Petragallo]

We are comedians. This is. These are terrible stories with awful things that happen. And there's also jokes now happens to be. Happens to be jokes now. The jokes don't happen during the murders because there really isn't anything funny about murder. The actual act of murder isn't very funny. But the actual act of I think I can get away with murder and here's what I'll do to do that as that can be a lot of fun. So that's where we try to concentrate on all that. The stories are as real as they get, unfortunately. No details are made up or embellished and all that kind of thing. But what we do though here is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why, James?

[James Petragallo]

Because we're assholes, scumbags. But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. See, it's real easy. So if you think that that sounds good to you, you're gonna hear one of the craziest stories ever. If you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together, they don't mix, then I mean, I don't know, maybe we're not for you, but maybe we are. Either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time everybody, let's all sit back, clear the lungs. What do you say here? And let's all shout shuuut and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, we do it. We are going to Maryland this week. We are in Bethesda, Maryland.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is in central popular place.

[James Petragallo]

It is. Bethesda has been I don't know. Why was it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know.

[James Petragallo]

I feel like those old TV ads. There was people that were like, you know, send a self addressed stamped envelope. It was something. I think a lot of that shit came maybe there. Yeah, I think that's what it was. Maybe. I don't know. So this is a self addressed member. Allow six to eight weeks for shipping or whatever the hell you want. This thing off tv, you can have it two months from now. Just call.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want to know why I know so much about Bethesda that I don't know anything about it.

[James Petragallo]

Well, we'll find out some stuff about here. It's in central Maryland. Maryland's like a lot of panhandles all together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a very strange shaped place.

[James Petragallo]

The middle one here. Yeah, they definitely kind of made that one up. As far as land goes, there's no natural borders to it. Where you go. Yeah, that's where it ends. It's about. From the ocean down the ocean and the rivers. It's about 20 minutes to Washington D.C. from here and about 45 minutes to Baltimore. So it's actually closer to D.C. than Baltimore here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it was in the wire.

[James Petragallo]

Possibly. Yeah, that's a. That's a possibility. About 2 hours and 45 minutes to Pocomoke City, Maryland, which was our last episode in Maryland. Gone like a ghost. That was a very weird episode there. Just a disappearance completely. This is in Montgomery county area code 301. The motto here is an uncommon mix of life and style.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is. Oh God.

[James Petragallo]

Jesus. Dude, that's uncommon. That's such a marketing like that's. They hired a company. Yeah, they paid five grand for that. And someone gave them that slogan. Some of the history here a little bit. Most of the settlers here were tenant farmers who paid their rent in tobacco. Try that now. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pay your rent in anything but currency.

[James Petragallo]

Just tobacco. Just give them a pile of Marlboros and see if that's. Is this good drop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kick them a cart in the Newport.

[James Petragallo]

Is that all right? Or no square. Couple reviews of this town here. We'll get through them pretty quick because we have a lot of crazy story here. Here's five stars. Okay. What I love the most about Bethesda is its safety. Having lived in several countries. That doesn't sound good when we're talking about on a show called Small Town Murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bethesda's safe because I've been to Uganda.

[James Petragallo]

He said it's definitely the safest place I've lived in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. Moreover, it's Very international. I also love how clean it is and how green everything looks during the summer. However, it's very residential, so it's not a very walkable city. How many times did they say very in this review? A few. It also has to be. It also can be a bit too calm sometimes. Okay, little too calm. Not enough partying. Good. It depends on what you're looking for, I guess. Right. One star. We've lived in Bethesda for a year and we cannot wait until our lease expires so we can get out of Bethesda. Oh, my car was broken into a month after moving to the quote. Nice neighborhood. Well, that's where the nice cars are to break into.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't break into shit.

[James Petragallo]

What are you gonna break into somebody's 85 fucking Caprice? No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't leave money in there.

[James Petragallo]

No. There is constant mayhem from construction in the downtown area. You know, construction causes mayhem improvements and stuff of, you know, making it a nicer place. The drivers are chaotic. There are a few safe places to walk to, restaurants because the drivers are unpredictable. We'll just jump up on the curb and take you out on the sidewalk. It's very hot and humid. Well, yeah, that's the east coast. And the J2 bus is okay, but the bus drivers are aggressive. Yeah, it's a bus driver. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's great.

[James Petragallo]

There are a few normal primary care doctors, Just urgent care that acts as primary care on paper, but without the trust or security of actual doctor patient interactions. Rent is absurd, but most of the housing is dated and low quality. Okay, that's great. And they say that there's no good mechanics in the area. Just some extremely expensive dealerships. Very specific.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The person wants somebody to do everything.

[James Petragallo]

For them and they're upset that everything can't be done exactly how they want it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And this person is an incapable person of taking care of themselves.

[James Petragallo]

No, they can't do much here. Jesus Christ. I guess they're not. If you're not a doctor or a mechanic, it would be hard to take care of that stuff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But mechanics, not that hard.

[James Petragallo]

Now it is those.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Can't look at a fucking car and do anything to it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you've got a scanner, it's not hard.

[James Petragallo]

You just gotta take fucking effort. If you're a professional. If you own a professional shop. Yeah. You know, my father can fix any car up till about 1998. And then it starts being computers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He can fix everything today too. He just needs the computer that knows what to do.

[James Petragallo]

He doesn't have. Because he doesn't have a shop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Everything out to do one little thing.

[James Petragallo]

I think that computer's expensive.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think it is. I think you only get it when you're certified in that.

[James Petragallo]

I think probably. Yeah. So people in this town. 66,294 people. So a little big, but still a suburb and definitely residential. That's why we put those reviews to tell you that it's 52% female. So way more females than males. Median age is a few years higher than the national average. It's 43. It's a very suburban family type of place. 61% married, which is well above the national average. Very low. People that are single with children is only 6.5%. This is. You get married, you buy an expensive house that you can't afford to get divorced in. That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you work on your own car.

[James Petragallo]

You stay together and you just let your cars die and put them in the garage. Race in this town, 74.8% white, 3.6% black, 11% Asian, 7.2% Hispanic. So some mix up in there. Religion. 40% of the people here are religious. So it's lower than our normal here we have. Catholic is the most. But it's not that. By that big of a margin though. Really not. We'd say that's the Baptists of the north, but we're really not in the north. And it's just hodgepodge.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They just happen to have seven or.

[James Petragallo]

Eight more Baptists of the mid Atlantic region here. That's about it here. The unemployment rate here is about average. Median household income here is very high. Rest of the country, $69,000. Here $178,370.

[Jimmy Whisman]

These people are crushing life.

[James Petragallo]

They're killing it. That's almost three times the national average of everything but the cost of living. You need to make that outrageous. 100 is average. Here it's 138 and a half. 138.5.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not that bad. But you're making three times the national average in money.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, but the home cost is the problem. That's the big one. That's what drives it all the way up. The home cost. Median home cost here, $1,072,100. So you better be making 200 grand a year to buy any house. Is your average house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's for every two. For every half a million dollar house, there's a million and a half.

[James Petragallo]

That's exactly right. So if you've saved up your money, you're all ready to go. We have for you the Bethesda, Maryland real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here is $2,340, which is almost double the national average. Here's a four bedroom, three bath, 2228 square foot house. It's nice. It's a cute little place it's built and not even little, it's a decent place, but it's a good sized house. It's classified as a bungalow, so it's that style. So it looks smaller than it is. It was built in 1928 and very nicely updated. It's pretty damn cool. Wow. It is $950,000 though, which is a bit pricey. No land, a little tiny lot. Nothing. Just this little house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's gotta have a finished basement, right? That's gotta be where the.

[James Petragallo]

Maybe. Possibly. Yeah. I don't remember if I. It was hard to tell. If they don't show if it's a finished basement. Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's in the rest of the house or where it is. Here is a six bedroom, six bath, tea bowl for each and every b hall here. 5,890 square feet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is the meat, this is the middle house.

[James Petragallo]

0.35 acres. This house looks like it's 150 years old, but it was built in 2003. Oh, wow. It's an old Victoria. It looks like a big old Victorian house. It's got like that round turret looking thing there and all that kind of shit. It's very cool. But you are like, hey, what the fuck? This is old. But it's not. I don't understand it. It's $3,190,000. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Man alive. Imagine. Imagine being able to.

[James Petragallo]

It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And then the next house is even crazier. 6 bedroom, 11 bath, T bowl for all your B holes and your brothers and sisters. You can invite your parents over to take a dump. Everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They ran out of people to put bathrooms in. They're just like, we've got so much more room. Just make more bathrooms.

[James Petragallo]

We got a lot of plumbing. We have extra pipes. Let's just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How's that idea?

[James Petragallo]

It's 11,522 square feet on 1.93 acres. It's like it's on the river. It has these beautiful views. It looks like. It looks like a resort destination. Romantic comedy, movie, wedding venue. That's what it looks like. It's ridiculous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it 11 million?

[James Petragallo]

It looks like a resort. 23 million, $500,000. 23 million. 23 million.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know what. I don't know what.

[James Petragallo]

That a sultan lives there. Somebody who, like, goes to D.C. sometimes, but lives in, like, the United Arab Emirates or something that, you know, that's ridiculous. And this isn't in Beverly Hills or in Greenwich or something like that. This is Bethesda, Maryland, which we. Which we thought we heard of, but we weren't sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm not even sure what this is.

[James Petragallo]

Things to do here. All right, I'm going to give you two completely opposite things as far as culture.

[Jimmy Whisman]

$23 million. That's what there is to do here.

[James Petragallo]

That's for these. That's the first thing to do is for the $23 million house set here. Listen to this shit. It's called Bethesda Row Arts Festival. Here's the description. I'm gonna notice if you notice. I'm gonna see if you notice a certain word they like to use here. Every September, over 30,000 affluent art enthusiasts from the Washington, D.C. metro area and its surrounding suburbs converge upon the Bethesda Row arts Festival. The three mile radius surrounding the festival boasts household income of $196,910, positioning the event as one of the nation's most affluent and educated art marketplaces.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hey, you broke dummies. Stay away.

[James Petragallo]

Yup. Would you like to come and stare at rich people? Do shit that rich people do that you can't afford to do. Maybe they can tell you about their extra bathrooms. What do you say?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Come through and get bullied without a single word.

[James Petragallo]

They just look at you and go, so that's one end of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Affluent. They love the word affluent in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Then the other end of it is Porky the Little Eater.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is this?

[James Petragallo]

Okay, that is. I'll show you a picture that. Is this. Okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a little brick house with a pig on it.

[James Petragallo]

Six foot high, brick house with a pig with its mouth open. Looks like a glory hole. That looks like a pig. Glory hole is what that looks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That looks like you fucked that pig's face.

[James Petragallo]

You fuck its face and you're like, okay. It says, cabin John Regional park is peaceful picnic spot in Montgomery county that features one very unusual resident. An environmentally conscious talking pig.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragallo]

He has been entreating visitors to his chatty maw with refuse since the park opened in 1966. The push of a button located near his smiling face. It's not smiling. He's making an O hole for a dick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's not a person this is just a. It's like a classic.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It talks if you press the button is all the prodding he needs to start his pitch. After a couple of snorts and grunts, the low voice of one time park caretaker Ted Gurney issues the following cheery, hi, kids. I'm Porky the little eater, and I sure like to eat. You can feed me paper and cardboard, soft drink cans, but never feed me bottles or broken glass. Glass gives me a stomach ache.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a recycle bin.

[James Petragallo]

He's a recycle bin that doesn't do glass.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's like, yeah, throw that in the trash.

[James Petragallo]

It's got a vacuum powered mouth. You know, people have stuck their dick in here. How many people have stuck their dick in this big mouth? How many? I'd love to know. It's remarkable. Maybe that's. You gotta go there, man. There's this park with this. You just stick your dick in there, buddy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll tell you what, it's a vacuum pig mouth.

[James Petragallo]

It will suck you into the next farm boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And it's free.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, my God. That is funny. Porky wasn't the first talking trash receptacle in Montgomery County. That honor was held by Billy the Litter goat, who in 1965 was at Wheaton Regional Park. But Porky is the only one that remains.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so they got rid of the litter goat. The litter goat sounds like much more practical. And it seems right, because goats will fucking eat anything. Pigs don't eat bottles. They don't eat paper.

[James Petragallo]

No. That's why. I guess that's why glass gives you a stomachache. Yeah, they'll eat your, like the clothes of a dead person, I think, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a dead person.

[James Petragallo]

And a dead person on the person. Holy shit. That is crazy. So crime rate here, what we're interested in, crime rate, property crime is actually less than the national average by about a third under the national average. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault is about half the national average. So pretty goddamn safe in this town. It's super wealthy. I mean, if you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what happens when you have money.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. If you're riding down the street in anything less than a $90,000 car, there's probably people. Everyone's gonna notice you and you'll be caught for murder, I think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So what's this riff raff doing here?

[James Petragallo]

What are you doing? Staring at the art installment. Don't do that. You're not up to that. So that said, let's talk about Holy Shit. Some murder here this is. Wow. Okay, let's just start by talking about this guy here. All right. There's no other way to do this. Haddon. H A D D E N is his first name. Haddon Irving Clark. He is born in 1951 and he's from Troy, New York originally. That's where he's born. But he's going to move all over the place. Just a constantly moving as a child. His parents are always going to. His dad's always going to a different job trying to make more money. And Troy is a shithole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything way up, Anything in upstate New York there is a dump so bad it's. These are burnt out industrial towns that still have SUNY colleges. Now they're just little college towns now. So now his parents are married and together his whole life, which normally you go, okay, well that's good, it'll be a stable upbringing. But this is not a stable upbringing. And judging by the actions of Haddon and his brother, something went wrong in this house for sure. Like this is not an okay household here. They move all the time, at least like sometimes twice a year. And not just to a different house, to a different city.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, like move to a different place completely a couple times a year, which is different. Like I moved a lot. Well, no, not instability. His dad's a chemist and apparently a like top tier gun for hire chemist back then where people were always trying to hire him away and so he was always moving jobs to get more money. His dad's name is also Haddon. They called him Haddon Junior. This Haddon Young Haddon, even though they, his dad doesn't have a middle name, but he does, but they still call him Junior all the time. Now his dad was on the team that invented and was one of the heads of the team that invented Saran Wrap. Yeah, his dad invented plastic wrap. Every, every time you save something and put it in your fridge, this guy's dad had something to do with this shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petragallo]

So that's very interesting when you lost.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The lid to the Cool Whip bowl and you're just like plastic, you gotta put something over it.

[James Petragallo]

He did it, he said, how much, how many picnics has this man saved? The food of. How many, how much food has he saved?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, and also it bowls lid got melted in the dishwasher.

[James Petragallo]

That's. What are you gonna do when it's twisted now? Now it's twisted and now it's warped. It doesn't fit. Fuck, it doesn't fit. It won't go down on this side over here. It pops up if I push down over here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, what's that smell?

[James Petragallo]

He'll take it. He's like, hold on. Gotcha.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Forever on this.

[James Petragallo]

Also helped invent fire retardant carpeting as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So I guess I didn't even realize that exists.

[James Petragallo]

It's all carpeting now. Every carpeting is fire retardant. Whereas it used to be something, right? Yeah, it used to be just the most flammable thing in your house. Just burst into flames. Yarn beneath your feet or worse. By then they were using like synthetic shit. So it was. It would burn even better. Yeah, they're using like nylon and shit like that. So yeah, that's a big deal. His father had an MBA and a PhD in chemistry and smart son. Bitch used it. Very smart. But he's always wanting more money, more status. So that's why they move all the time, different jobs. His mom's a homemaker. She takes care of the kids at home. There's four kids, so three boys and a girl. And mom is. Her name is Flavia. Flavia. F L A V I A. Flavia.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Flavia.

[James Petragallo]

Now she sounds like she's ethnic, like, ooh, maybe his mom's like Spanish or something. Absolutely not. She is as. As blue blood. Her lineage goes back to the actual Mayflower. That's how blue blood they are. That's wild shit. And she bragged about it, that her directest, she was direct descendant from heroes of the Revolutionary War. Now, Hadden's grandfather on his father's side served as the elected mayor of White Plains, New York as well, which is a good sized city. White Plains, just north of the Bronx. It's a decent sized city right outside New York City. So I just stayed there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's beautiful.

[James Petragallo]

It's very nice in that area. Very nice. Expensive. It's an expensive area. Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The sales are crazy. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Little pricey in that area to do anything. Now both of the parents, Haddon Sr. And Flavia, are super nasty alcoholics, by the way. That's a problem. And non alcoholics to the point where anyone outside of the house notices it. He goes to work, he does his work very well, Comes home, she goes to her society events, does all of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Her things and ties it on when they get home.

[James Petragallo]

Then they lock the door, drink like fish and fight with each other in front of the kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragallo]

So, yeah. And the kids are horrified by it, obviously. Now here's the family, the way the kids go. Brad is the oldest, Bradfield is His name, that's the first son, Brad Field, goes by Brad. He's a year older than Haddon, born in 1950. Then Jeff with a G is. He's born in 1955. Another brother and then the last child is Alison, finally got a girl. She's born in 1959. So they had Brad. He was a boy. Terrific. They wanted Haddon to be a girl, especially Mom. Flavio really, really wanted Haddon to be a girl and was super pissed that he wasn't a girl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she has to do this again. And then probably strike three was really bad.

[James Petragallo]

Really. But hadn't. She will not accept that he's not a girl, which is weird. We'll talk about this really now, Allison, Things are so fucked up in this house. Allyson will, as a teenager will run away from the house, never talk to her family again. She just done for a teenager to leave and never fucking come back. There's bad shit going on there. She later on, years later, said, quote, I never had a family. That's her quote. This house is a mess. And it has to be a little bit about Haddon and his strange behavior as a child. He's got very strange behavior. He was late to walk, late to talk also. Oh, late bloomer, late bloomer and all sorts of shit here. Now, when he was very young, he rammed his brother with a bike. And we'll talk about that and give you a little more detail on that. Oh, totally on purpose. I mean, his brother's head bounced off the sidewalk. Jeffrey.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petragallo]

Bleeding profusely and everything like that. His mother blames his strange behavior on the doctor using the forceps wrong. When he was a baby and being born and fucking fucked up his brain. Squeezed his brain stupid. That's what she said. So, yeah, she would speculate that that had to be a brain injury from birth. She would say it was a difficult delivery and the doctor had to use forceps to get him out. And she even claimed also that this had to have resulted in injury and left a long lasting impact and fucked up his judgment. Basically. His mother brought him to Yale University's Child Study center at age 4. These are wealthy people with education and.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They we're going to get to the bottom resources if we can't fix it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The smartest people on the planet.

[James Petragallo]

Well, the smartest people on the planet completely misdiagnosed him as, as having cerebral palsy, which he absolutely does not have.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

And perhaps a mild brain damage which he probably, which he probably does have, but definitely doesn't have cerebral palsy. So that was a wasted trip to Yale there. Wasted trip to New Haven that day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They gave scholarships to the wrong kids.

[James Petragallo]

Jesus. Kids doesn't have palsy. Look at him for crazy. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Walking all over the place.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Jesus. So the Clark family moves around Connecticut, New Jersey and all over the place. It's around the Northeast where, you know, all this stuff is going on here. Rarely staying at a place for more than a year, sometimes moving twice in a year. And the parents, they have a lot of money, obviously, but they have to move around and do all of that kind of thing. And if, you know, if you've done that as a kid, it's hard. It's hell.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

I did that a lot. I went to a lot of different schools and moved across the country and back and it's really hard to get. Keep your footing and.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

You know, feel like you have any planted roots.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah. When you have money like that too, like you're staying in nicer and those kids are so fucking mean.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cruel.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean they're openly.

[James Petragallo]

And you're not part of it. Yeah, you're not. Your parents don't go to the country club with their parents for the last 20 years and all that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So are they as alcoholics, are they drinking like really good?

[James Petragallo]

You know, I mean, I don't know exactly. I assume it's. Why would they drink rot gut if they. Yeah, they probably. Probably drink it. She's probably drinking good wine. He's drinking like a single malt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think they're some sort of Glenlivet or something.

[James Petragallo]

Something. I don't know. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the safest sponsor ever. Simply safe. Absolutely. These people will keep you safe. It's amazing, you know that every 26 seconds a burglary takes place in the United States. According to the FBI, that means that by the time this podcast is over, dozens and dozens of homes will have been targeted, ransacked. God knows what happens here. So protect your home before it's too late. With Simplisafe proactive security System, Simplisafe helps stop threats before they even have a chance to break in. Named best home security system by U.S. news and World Report five years in a row. And by us for about the last eight years as well, if you trust us. Believe me, you want SimpleSafe, so visit SimpliSafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and Your first month free. That's simplisafe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our stylish friends at Quint's. That's right, let's go. Elevate your styles, people. Get it going. Look good out there and you can do it now without breaking your wallet, without breaking the bank. Because at Quint's, you can get high end, versatile pieces at prices we can all actually afford, which is very nice. You want to get good stuff that lasts and it's good. And they have quality stuff that's very affordable. And you can do like we did, upgrading our stuff here while still being a very reasonable price. Quint's only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices, along with premium fabrics and finishes. It's all quality stuff. You're gonna love it. Trust us. It looks good. And I've got the leather jacket. It's a very high quality item. Real nice, soft leather. Jimmy's got his linen pants he's rocking. Come on, be like us. Be fashionable. Get in there with Quince. Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quince.com smalltown murder for free shipping on your order and 360 day returns. That's Q U-I N C E.com smalltown murder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com smalltown murder now back to the show. So it's tough though. Basically, he never had a solid friendship group. You have to constantly adjust to new surroundings which will make you either quiet or will make you a comedian like me. So that's what happened there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not good.

[James Petragallo]

Well, I guess I figured out if I'm funny that people will like me and I'll make friends easier. It's a lot easier to do. So, yeah, so they had to do that. A lot of moves, a lot of shipping around and everything like that. So you have to figure it out, Figure it out and figure out how to do it. And he's not good at this stuff. And part of it is he doesn't really have a good base of him, like a good base of knowing who he is at home. At home. He's teased at school and at home, basically picked on everywhere, mainly by his parents really well. His father had a nickname for him that he called him all the time in front of him and just in general. It was, quote, the retard. What so, Rika, where's the retard? He would say. And that meant hadn't. Yep. And he would say, hey, retard, come here. I get that this isn't nice, but this is what he would call his fucking son.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's so fucked up for me.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. This is when he's, like, five, six.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Meaning, like, everybody in the house recognizes him as the.

[James Petragallo]

That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

They all knew that was his nickname. We call. We call him Sonny. We call him Spanky. And that's the Retard. Like, that's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Princess Allison and the Retard. That's so fucked.

[James Petragallo]

That's so fucking mean, man. And terrible. It's his father. It's his own father.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So you're not gonna have, like, a friend coming over the house and dad comes home and goes, where's the retard?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they go, they're talking about me. Or he's in his room with his friend. Like, the friend's gonna know that your nickname is awful at all.

[James Petragallo]

And then what's gonna happen at school? So.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Later on, while talking to a psychiatrist. This is horrifying. When he's an adult talking to a psychiatrist. He said that when he was growing up, before he, like, knew what your official name was, like on a birth certificate or something, he thought that Retard was part of his name. He thought that was. He thought he was Haddon Retard Irving Clark. Like, he thought that was his name. Like the Bill Cosby joke from the old Dick. Yeah. I thought my name was Jesus Christ. That's exactly what it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, God damn it.

[James Petragallo]

God damn it. Jesus Christ. Get in the cab. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

So that's what he thought. He actually thought that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's fucked up.

[James Petragallo]

Now, his mother gave him a different nickname for a completely different reason. His mother upset that he was not a girl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The accident.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, no. Upset that he wasn't a girl. And not having a girl until he's 8 years old would dress him up in girl's clothes and call him Kristen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, you can't do that.

[James Petragallo]

So, like, this kid has no idea who he is. Essentially, he's a retarded girl. Yeah. That's in his mind. He has no idea.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His parents making him be. Ah, Jesus.

[James Petragallo]

So he thinks his name is Haddon Retard Kristen Irving Clark. That's a lot of names. And the parents, while they're doing this, while they're being horrible to him, abusive as shit. They're also, like I said, alcoholics who fight not Only verbally, but physically in front of the children as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice.

[James Petragallo]

So this is a mess. A goddamn mess. One classmate said that he remembered both Bradfield and Haddon. The brothers were both mean and quick tempered and said that Haddon had a learning problem and a speech impediment. And he attended a special school as well. Oh, yeah. So he went to a special school from the time he was 6 to 15.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So that's why his dad did this to him.

[James Petragallo]

Yes. And then obviously he would, you know, he would think that of himself anyway. And then rather than the dad going, no, no, no. It's just, you know, some people learn at different paces. Buddy, he'll be fine. His dad goes, hey, retard. Which is not, you know, gonna help this kid at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he's. And he's the only one of the kids that's at this special school. He's. He's clearly slower than everybody else at learning and just give him some fucking time, you guys.

[James Petragallo]

And the kids in the neighborhood are gonna pick on him for that, obviously, so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're brutal.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. This classmate said Haddon would get angry and go into a corner and pout all the time. The kids didn't want to play with him. That's how he was. Another childhood friend of his said that he had a speech impediment and a quick temper and said that sometimes he couldn't control himself if something didn't go his way. He'd get very upset. All the kids would walk away and wait for him to calm down. He'd have a tantrum. And they all knew to just leave him alone, basically. So the next door neighbor here, they were the next door neighbor for a while until the Clark family moved to rhode island in 1962. Called Haddon a meek child, mischievous at times. But I don't remember him as a problem child. No. Because he's just beaten down that everybody's beaten up on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's not a problem child at that point.

[James Petragallo]

While all this is going on, his parents are active in all the outside activities. They're active in the Boy Scout troops, they go to PTA meetings, they're in the church group. They are members of civic organizations. All this nice stuff is going on. On the surface, they look like the perfect family. And then, you know, what goes on behind closed doors, it's messed up. So the only thing that the father did with Haddon that didn't involve insulting him or beating him up was they took him hunting. So he spent. That was the quality time they spent together was Hunting, firearms. Yeah. Let's teach this kid. But that could go either way. That could be something that he could be interested in and whatever. Or you could just be teaching an angry person how to use, how to be violent.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the other thing you're teaching him how to murder.

[James Petragallo]

You never know. Or it could be good for him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't understand. I don't know. Whatever. People do it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't understand the. The bonding of that. That's fucking crazy.

[James Petragallo]

That's because neither of us had that with our fathers, too, so we don't know. You didn't know your dad? My dad has never been a hunter. Yeah. Never hunted anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I get it. If that's your survival thing, if you're gonna go out and eat all that, that's great. Good for you.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't care. I don't give. I'm not judging anybody. I don't give a shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know.

[James Petragallo]

Don't kill anything endangered, please. That'd be nice. Try not to kill, like, any kid. I'd be like white rhinos or anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Take this gun child.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Yeah. It seems odd, but that's bizarre. It depends on where you are, too, because some people, like, live in the woods and they.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So, James, you got to tame the. The population that's out of control. They're gonna shit everywhere.

[James Petragallo]

That's the problem. It's the shitting. There's gonna be too much poop on the forest floor here. We gotta clean this up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can't even hide.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. So the elder Haddon was a big hunter, and he taught Junior here how to trap animals. So Haddon here, the young Haddon, Jr, rather than keep just doing this on hunting trips, he would trap all sorts of shit in the backyard. See this guy? This kid isn't right in the head to be teaching this stuff. So he would trap every little furry animal he could find. Fucking rabbits and possums and squirrels and raccoons and anything here. So, yeah, he would do this. He would torture them until they died. Every once in a while, he would let one live for some reason, though, which nobody ever understood Here. Yeah. One of them that he let live was a raccoon that he caught. And he kept it as a pet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's actually kind of cool.

[James Petragallo]

It's funny as shit. He trained it. He trained it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've seen this. This is amazing.

[James Petragallo]

He would ride his bicycle around with the raccoon clinging to his head. And neck. Yeah, just hanging off his head and neck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It would hold on.

[James Petragallo]

It would hold on to him. Yeah. And so the kids thought it was like basically a live action Davy Crockett hat, because that's. Back then, that was a popular thing. The first coonskin cat. So he would. He had a real one. He also did bad things with these animals, like dissecting them, which is weird unless you're in science class. And if kids picked on him, he would catch their pets and decapitate them. No. Yes. That's how he would get them back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What pets was he catching?

[James Petragallo]

Catch dogs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah, you can catch dogs.

[James Petragallo]

Fuck yeah. You can catch a little dog and kill it if you want to. I'm sure. If you're a sick fuck. So obviously he's got mental problems. This is not normal. He's in and out of psych wards and special treatment facilities as a child as well. And the parents, this is a lot of money that's going out. They're paying for this. They're not putting them in some county facility in some padded room. They're sending them to some fancy psychiatrist and shit like that. But his dad always had the money for it, so that wasn't a big deal. Here his brother, now Brad, issues as well. Brad began doing drugs when he was about 10 years old and was very aggressive. At one instance, he got a hold of a gun and used it to shoot out the windows of the next door neighbor's vehicle. And they said, why'd you do that? Why were you mad? And he said, I wasn't mad. Just did it, quote for the heck of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I wanted to see the windows break.

[James Petragallo]

Just felt like window shatter would be fun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shot his neighbor's car. Wow.

[James Petragallo]

You find a car in the woods, abandoned, and you do that. That's how you do that. Every town has a car in the woods, abandoned somewhere that you can shoot up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And really there's. There's. You got things in the house. Your mom made beans or something. Take the cans.

[James Petragallo]

Take something. Now. Brad hadn't at one point told his mother that his brother Brad had taken him up in a tree house and sexually assaulted him. His brother denied it and his mother just ignored it and acted like it didn't happen. So Brad was doing things to his brother. Here Haddon fails two grades in elementary school. His intelligence later on is found to be average to low average IQ wise, and shit like that. Haddon's brother Jeff talks about the younger brother, about four years younger. He talked about Haddon having a mean Streak. And they said he didn't even know where it came from. And oftentimes Jeff was the target of the meanness because people would pick on him. He can't get them back, but he can get his little brother and make him hurt. So he said something always seemed off about Haddon here. He said Hadden was always strange, he was always different as a child. He'd ignore people when they asked him a question sometimes or run away. It's an odd reaction to that. How was school today? Okay, I guess. Never mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't understand this. I'm running.

[James Petragallo]

It wasn't that he was being rude. The concept of rude wasn't there for him. It's like someone who doesn't taste sweet. If you give them a plate of strawberries, they're not going to taste them. Rude didn't occur to him. Never even thought about it. He just never thought about it. As he got older, a lot of his emotional development didn't move beyond being 8 or 10, which is true, we'll find out later. As a kid, he did a lot of impulsive things, but it didn't matter. As he got older, it began to matter. This is all a quote from Jeff. It continues. There were a lot of times when I got hurt from something stupid he did. I have the scars. One time we were riding our bikes and we were trying to learn to ride one handed. And I told him not to ride too close to me, but he did. And when we were just learning so he didn't have that much control, he swerved in front of me and I fell and hit my head. Hadn't ran home, by the way. Hit his head, split his head open. Bleeding all over the sidewalk, unable to move, hadn't ran home. And when he saw my parents, he said, don't worry, the bike's all right. That's what he said. So his concept of everything is way skewed and off. He doesn't get shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My parents used to say things like, if you hit my truck, I'll kill you when you go buy it. Yeah, you'll heal. The truck won't, is what they would say. So they probably said that to him. And that's why he probably said, don't worry, the bike's okay.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. I remember having my dad at one point having two cars and they were. One was nicer than the other and he said, that's death and this one is mega death. Don't hit that one. As we were playing basketball. So all of my friends knew, don't hit the car with the ball or James's father will kill us. So it was like everyone was terrified of him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was. That was dismemberment.

[James Petragallo]

He said that in front of my friends when I was like 12. They were all like, oh, shit, don't hit the cars. God damn. So, yeah, you get that in your head. But I said, he just didn't have the care. The one place. There's one place in the world where Hadden feels comfortable and safe, and that is at his grandparents house. Oh, yes. Somehow his grandparents here. I don't know. They're decent people. Even though they've raised either one of these people. His parents are monsters.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they raised somebody that's an alcoholic, something.

[James Petragallo]

So this was in Cape Cod. His parents lived. Oh, okay, very nice. So he'd go there. His grandparents were always there. He visited them every summer. He'd come, he would fish. Sounds like a fucking dream. I'd love to do that down the Cape every summer. Going to the Cape every summer. He's like Tom Hanks and splashed this fucking guy. I'm jealous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Incredible.

[James Petragallo]

He would fish and he would do all the nature stuff. And he said these were the happiest days of his life. And Jeff said the days we spent there were the most wonderful time of Haddon's life. They were for all of us.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it'd be. I mean, it'd be very hard to make the Cape an awful memory.

[James Petragallo]

I mean, his grandparents treat them great and it's just like it's a totally different life for them. Totally different life. So that's nice that now as a teenager, he is discovered to enjoy wearing adult women's clothing sometimes. Now he is much like Ed Wood. Ed Wood is a filmmaker. I don't know if everybody's heard of Ed Wood, but Edward what is known as the worst director of all time. He made Plan nine From Outer Space, which is considered one of the worst movies that's ever been made back in that era. Ed Wood, I know a lot about him because he's from Poughkeepsie, actually. He worked at the Bar de Bond theater when he was a kid and shit. But. But there's a good movie, the Tim Burton movie with Johnny Depp as Ed Wood too. It's very good. But I've read books and stuff about Ed Wood and Ed Wood liked to wear women's clothing. He was a extremely straight guy. He was a World War II veteran and he was a paratrooper, for Christ's sake. I mean, fucking big balls on this guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a man. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

And he said that he was never scared of being killed. He was only scared of being injured and having the medics find his bra and underwear under the fucking uniform. Yeah. He said that's all he was scared of, was that that's what was terrifying him about being in the Army.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a fascinating. I guess that makes all this. He's probably not the only one that's ever done that.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, no. Absolutely not. There's. This is a big thing like this. There's a lot of. Apparently a lot of men who like that are, like, straight and that are not. They're not even, like, you know, there's no transness or. There's no. They just like wearing women's clothes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They like the feeling of bloomers.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know. So I don't know what that is. And he once told his mother, I like my lady's clothing. Don't try and change me. Okay? He said, hadn't said that to his mom when he was like, 12. Don't try to change me. He burst into a Lady Gaga song after that. And they were like, I guess just let him wear the bra. Yeah, just let him wear it. So weeks after he got caught doing that, he was involved in a peeping Tom incident that resulted in police intervention, which isn't great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's heavy.

[James Petragallo]

Apparently, his father would try to change him in his saying that. He said, I'm gonna change this boy by beating this out of him with a belt. He would get Haddon. When. He would get. When he would come out of the bathtub naked, his father would rush in the room with a belt and start beating the shit out of him when he was, like, wet and drying off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, God. Jesus.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's wild. So at 15, he was sent to a conventional school away from the special school, just regular high school, out of his special education school, and immediately fell behind again and couldn't keep up. And it was a hard time. Okay. Now, 1964, age 14. This is when he claims to have murdered his first victim. We don't know anything about this because it's very vague, but he said he murdered his first victim, who was a boy, a child. And he says his father helped cover it up. His father knew, which kind of would make sense because his father wouldn't want that being public for himself. So. But we don't know the details about that or anything about that. That's just something he mentions later. But when he was 16, a woman hired him to work in her yard. You Know, do yard work. Found him in her house. He's supposed to be out in the yard. Instead, he's in the house wearing her nightgown.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yep.

[James Petragallo]

God damn. Yeah, That'll get you fired from yard work pretty quick. Yeah, that is interesting. A year later, his mom. This was before, well, after the incidents of catching him wearing. Quote, catching him wearing women's clothing. But his parents came across him wearing a nightgown and standing in front of a mirror. So his mother mentioned these incidents to the therapist he was seeing. Because this is the thing. He's in therapy this entire time. This isn't like, oh, you know, these parents don't know what to do and they just stick him in a room. He's in therapy. He goes to see doctors. All of this shit is, you know, documented. Documented. So the therapist recommend that she not confront him and just let him just leave him alone about it. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, the doctor knows too, that it's not. That's not like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not a trigger.

[James Petragallo]

It's not a big deal. It doesn't matter. Exactly. Just leave him alone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, as many serial killers or people that do bad things, that do that.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's probably a thousand that didn't.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, more than that. Yeah, absolutely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I drink Pepsi. I'll bet they drink that too.

[James Petragallo]

Well, they always say this. Many drug addicts started out by smoking this or smoking pot or drinking alcohol. I bet 100 out of 100 started out by drinking milk. Like, where do we stop? Going back and figuring it out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, they're probably breast. They were either breastfed or drank fucking formula.

[James Petragallo]

It's these fucking Gerber people. Those are the people you blame. Like, who are you gonna blame?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Big Gerber.

[James Petragallo]

Big Gerber. So 1972, he graduates from high school at 21 years old.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's embarrassing.

[James Petragallo]

Who's coming to the bar afterwards? Oh, just me. Okay. Never mind. Just me and the mill workers. Okay. That sucks. He's a big guy too. He's 6 2. He's not like a. He sounds like a little squirrely guy, but he's not. He's a big guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a man.

[James Petragallo]

Not like a big heavy guy. He's kind of lanky, but he's 6 2, he's a big guy. So he likes cooking? That's what he likes?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So his family was absolutely fucking thrilled to find out he had an interest. They're like, you're interested in something from.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Girls clothing or trapping and killing animals.

[James Petragallo]

Great. A normal thing. That's actually a Career fucking terrific. They don't care if it's, oh, we want you to be a chemist or go to Yale. A job is great, whatever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Something that you can have an open conversation about at the church cookout, I'm fine with it.

[James Petragallo]

And he wants to be a cook, which is that is also a profession where weird behavior, things like that, completely ignored. If you can keep up during rush, no one cares what you do, give.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A fuck what underwear you're wearing right now.

[James Petragallo]

You can keep all those steak temps straight while keeping up during a rush at from six to seven. I don't give a shit if you go out in the fucking parking lot, rip kittens heads off and drink their bloods from their body like a mug. Doesn't matter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're only wearing ruffled bloomers.

[James Petragallo]

No one cares. Nobody cares. And that is one of the biggest things in the, in the, in the, like, industry of restaurants is no one cares what the fuck you do if you can keep up in the kitchen. So he ends up there. They want to do everything they can to help him do this, so they use all of their resources and connections and everything else to get him a spot at the Culinary Institute of America, CIA, up the street from my house there in High Park, New York. Now, this is, by the way, the exact same time that Anthony Bourdain was here. Oh, this is really weird. He has like. I wish Anthony Bourdain was alive for a lot of reasons, but I really want to know if he knew this guy because he not only went to culinary school at the same school at the same time or within a year, but they also both worked in Provincetown. And restaurants. There was a big, like a pipeline between the Culinary Institute and all of their. While they were working there, like summers while they were going to school and also, like when they graduated, a lot of them worked in Provincetown, really, which is off Cape Cod. It's a big, kind of a big gay place at the end tip.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's beautiful.

[James Petragallo]

It's great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a fucking party.

[James Petragallo]

It's a huge party. So that's all tons of restaurants. And that was a place that had big kitchens that would hire Culinary Institute people. And it was a good place to get your feet wet. And Anthony Bourdain worked there for years, for a couple of years when he first started. So did this guy. So they must have known each other because all these, all of the cooks would all end up at the same bars after shifts because they all get off at the same time. So it's really interesting. So they get him into CIA, which is, you know, on a beautiful place, a beautiful school and everything like that. And not only is he a decent cook, he's fucking amazing at ice sculptures. Amazing. Incredible. Like, really good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got a portion of his brain that certainly works.

[James Petragallo]

It's so weird. Yeah, he's got definite things he's skilled at. Like, so good. They were saying, holy shit, you're gonna do really well. Because these fancy parties, they all have ice sculptures. And if you can do that, you charge a fortune for those.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can bring the ice sculpture and then make a seven course hors d'oeuvres and fucking dinner thing. You can make all kinds of cash. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Crush that shit. So apparently he was very skilled with a knife, and they said he could carve anything out of a block of ice. Just anything he wanted. Graduates from the Culinary Institute of America in the spring of 1974. Gets lucky he graduated because he got in trouble a couple times. Number one, for urinating into vats of mashed potatoes in retaliation against slights that he perceived against him. Because the students cook. The way that CIA works is students cook for the other students. So you're always either cooking for the other students or eating what the other students have cooked. So he was mad at the other students. So he pissed in the potatoes. He made pissy potatoes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's crazy, because that'll thin them out tremendously.

[James Petragallo]

This is my specialty. This is my specialty. Pissy parsley potatoes. You're gonna love them. You can taste that. That's piss and parsley.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Asparagus, potatoes.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, you can. Yeah. Smell that. That's asparagus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Asparagus. That's crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, it's in there. Don't worry. So after graduation, he can't keep a job, though, for more than a few months because he is. To show up every day and do your job and leave, you have to have some form of stability at least at work. He was hired by a few really nice restaurants too, because back then, if you were a CIA graduate, anybody would hire you in their kitchen. You know what I mean? There wasn't a lot of. It's not like now, where there's so many chefs and cooks and people. Back then, cooking was not a glamorous job. It wasn't a cool job. It wasn't anything like that at all. So he would always get fired, though, and, man, people weren't gonna deal with his shit. Basically. The way these employers put it is he tried to act like he did with his family, with them and they weren't putting up with this shit. Basically here, you show up, you do your job, you go home, shut the fuck up. Whereas don't piss on the potatoes. Yeah, they weren't gonna deal with his bullshit. He tried to treat his supervisor and coworkers like he treated his family. And they would fire him, basically. So much so that from 74 to about 1981, he held 14 different jobs. That's a lot. He got fired for doing weird shit like chugging beef blood in the kitchen at one point. Just chugging it. So they were like, okay, he's too weird. You're fired.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Scare people or something. What is.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know if it's to keep him away. His grandparents, who he loves and who have always taken care of him. His grandfather dies in 1975, and his grandfather was apparently taking care of his grandmother, who was in poor health. His grandmother ends up going to a nursing home after that. So that whole thing is gone. His refuge of Cape Cod and his grandparents he could still go to at any point is now over with. So that's tough. He gets a job on a cruise ship as a chef. The peak of culinary importance, cruise ship cuisine. Making buffets for old people. At that point in time, that's what that was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is the wheelchairs.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Making food that is friendly to dentures. Denture, friendly fare.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very soft fare.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. Soft, mushy shit. This is on the SS Norway. And that was. After a while, that's all he could do was be a chef on a cruise ship because restaurants wouldn't hire him anymore. Essentially. He would recall later that most of the other cooks were Korean and so. And they didn't speak any English.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petragallo]

So he was just talking to people in English and they would talk to him in Korean. But the weird part is this worked out well for him because they didn't think he was weird because they didn't know what the fuck he was saying or doing. So they thought he was fine. He didn't know what they were saying. Everybody got along because they couldn't talk. Yeah. He stayed in this for almost a year. This is the longest he's ever had a job at once. After that, he ends up taking jobs at a couple different Long island banquet halls. And he actually has a three week assignment at the 1980 Olympic Games in Lake Placid as well. Cooking. I don't know if those athletes. Maybe that was the thing that propelled our hockey team over Russia was urine potatoes. That's what did it. The power of this man's urine propelled them to the biggest upset in Olympic history.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The potatoes.

[James Petragallo]

These potatoes. So his mother and his father are gonna divorce in the early 80s. They're gonna get separated. Yeah. His father goes on to marry a much younger woman, obviously. Cause he's got money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got Saran Wrap money.

[James Petragallo]

He's got Saran Wrap. And he wraps her in Saran Wrap to keep her fresh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petragallo]

So he then his father completely ignored the kids after that, even though they're all adults. It was like, oh, well, now I got. I'm banging this young lady.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now I'm busy.

[James Petragallo]

So Haddon, by 1982, he's between jobs. He's having a hard time. He ends up moving in with his mother, who's living by herself at the time. And she wanted to help him get his shit together and told him, listen, you can live here, no rent. All you need to do is do a few chores here or there's. But after a while, they started to argue, and things kind of got out of control. At one point, an argument escalates to the point where Hadden beats his mother up so bad, she calls the cops. So this resulted in him being brought up on assault charges, but then it was dismissed. This show, Small Town Murder, is brought to you by BetterHelp. Get yourself some therapy, everybody. Honestly here. We often hear about, you know, red flags that you should avoid. That's a lot of a thing. It's become a real phrase now. Real cliche. But why don't you focus also, you look at, like, green flags, and friends and partners look for good things as well. And maybe you're not sure what that looks like, though therapy can help you figure that out. What are positive things? What are the green flags? And then you can practice them in your relationship. It's absolutely effect. And so honestly, we absolutely are huge advocates for this. It really, really helps. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable. It's convenient. Serve over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists. Wide ranges of specialties there. Here's the coolest part. You're not getting along with your therapist. You're just not feeling it. You can switch at any time, no extra charge. Wow. The thing is, they want you to get help. That's it. And you can do it with BetterHelp. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com smalltown murder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com small town murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Chime. Things are expensive. The world is an expensive place and it only gets more expensive every day. And the last thing you want is a credit card debt hanging over you. Nobody wants that. It's horrible stuff. What you can do is enter the Chime Credit Builder card. This is a secured credit card with no annual fees. You can build credit with money you set aside and avoid interest or expensive debt. Those terrible, high, awful interest rates that you get on some of those credit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cards chasing your tail.

[James Petragallo]

Sometimes it's hard. It's what it is. You'll never get. You'll never get ahead. Plus you can get access to my pay and get up to $500 of your pay before payday with no mandatory fees. That's excellent. You gotta do it here. You get a Visa credit card. No annual fees, interest or credit check. That's. That's good stuff there. You use it everywhere. Visa cards are accepted, so it's not some special weird card you can't use anywhere. Turn your everyday purchases into steps toward your financial goals with Chime's secure credit card. Get started [e-mail] SmallTownMurder that's chime.com SmallTown Murder Chime. It feels like progress. The Chime Credit Builder Visa card is issued by the Bank Corp. NA or Stride bank na. Spot Me. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limitations apply. Out of network ATM withdrawal and OTC advance fees may apply. Late payment may negatively impact your credit score. Results may vary. MyPay eligibility requirements apply. Credit limits range from $20 to $500. Go to Chime.com disclosures for details. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a healthy, delicious item, Herobred. And we're both trying to get healthier this new year. Jimmy had an eye opening, doctor's appointment and things like that. So we're trying to get healthier. And I'm telling you right now, this hero bread is a good step in this direction. It's delicious and it is really good for you and it's really excellent. They have the sliced bread is good, the bagels, the tortillas. I know you've been ranting about the tortillas. They're so good. With herobread, you can focus on your health goals and still indulge in the soft, fluffy experience you love, but guilt free. I really love the little Hawaiian rolls too. Yeah, they're so good. They're so good. The Hawaiian rolls, they're legit. They're fluffy. They're exactly how you want them to be. You'd never know it's low carb and high fiber bread. From the texture you get the soft, fluffy experience you know and love with your savory breakfast sandwich. Late night grilled cheese taco Tuesday. Do it. No compromises, just flavor. Ultra low net carbs, zero grams of sugar, high in fiber. It's fantastic. Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use the code. Small town murder at checkout. That's small town Murder at H E R O Co. And now back to the show. But she didn't want to press charges on him. That's why she just didn't. But she did realize that they couldn't live together any longer. So she felt sorry for him. She would let him sleep in a shed on the property. If he had nowhere else to go. He was allowed to sleep in the shed. Soon, he said, I have to get my life together here. By the way. This is crazy. I'm sleeping in a fucking shed. I have no job. And he's a skilled chef and stuff. I mean, he's. He's literally a Culinary Institute graduate. He knows how to do things, but he can't keep it together long enough. He says, I know what I'll do here. He ends up joining the Navy. That's his fucking solution to this. Now, couple of things. Back in the 70s, when he graduated from Culinary Institute, his first few jobs were in Provincetown, just like Anthony Bourdain was there. He says later on that while in Provincetown. We'll have more details later. He said he killed several women in the sand dunes and buried them in the sand dunes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yes. He said he cut. Wow. He. Jesus Christ. He cut this one woman up because she bit him. So he'd killed her, I guess. He tried to rape the first woman after he murdered her, but it didn't work. He couldn't do it. So he tried to be a necrophiliac and couldn't do it. Here, another woman here. He claims that. And we'll get more details later. He claimed he murdered her, buried her nude under the sand dune, first removing her hands and wrists and then cutting her fingers off and cutting them at the knuckles and using the pieces of finger as bait for surf fishing. That is insane. Yeah, that's fucking wild. So he joins if he caught anything. I never heard if he caught anything. I was curious too. He's. I got the biggest sailfish. Boy, it's beautiful.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Love to know if that worked.

[James Petragallo]

No, it didn't work. So he joins the Navy and he's. He's a below deck cook. He's got cooking skills. What are they gonna. That's what they're gonna have him do. He works on a nuclear aircraft at the time called the USS Carl Vinson.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, the aircraft carrier. That's a big one.

[James Petragallo]

It's a big one. Yeah. He's one of the cooks. He was assigned as a cook and his duties were basically the same as the cruise ship. He's a ship and he's putting shit out there. So he's gonna try. He's gonna try to make it go. But after a while he of course gets pissy with everything. He doesn't like being bossed around. He doesn't like the commanding officers telling him what to do, which is the whole point of the military. Like, if you don't like people telling you what to do, the military is not for you. You got to be able to deal with that shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You have to take orders, man.

[James Petragallo]

He had some run ins here after one of a little problem with some fellow sailors. Some of his. Some of the fellow naval people stuffed him in a. In a meat locker for over three hours, made him stay in there. That is pretty interesting here. He also. He got transferred a couple times. He was sent to a different ship, the USS Theodore Roosevelt. And things didn't get better there. At one point, people who were mad at him waited for his shift to end, then jumped him and his head was viciously smashed against the deck of the ship multiple times. Now they asked Fraction was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just because they didn't like him.

[James Petragallo]

Well, they asked what the hell happened here. Hadn't. And he said, quote, they were jealous of my cooking skills. So he beat him nearly to death because he cooked. Well, that's pretty ridiculous. It's more likely it's just he's a weird guy and he does weird things and he doesn't know how to fucking talk to people. He'll also later say they found out that he wore women's underwear and they didn't like that about him to begin with. He was sent on. His stint on Iwo Jima was pretty brief as well. He goes there. He had apparently a break with reality at some point. Lost his mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, he's had a break for.

[James Petragallo]

A while and was sent to a psychiatric hospital for an evaluation and was deemed unfit for duty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right? Yeah. Because he said something crazy and they were like, we can't do this.

[James Petragallo]

So they beat him half to death. That makes sense. So Jeff, his brother, said that a massive head injury from this beating is kind of what caused, quote, his danger, potential to become unleashed. This head injury fucked him up. He said this about his brother. Something in this beating changed him. Probably it was a combination of the actual beating of his head and some emotional stuff that happened afterwards. Instead of just being carelessly dangerous, he was then somehow able to justify his acts of violence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yes. This is real weird. So June of 85, he's discharged from the Navy, diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Oh, yeah. And given a medical discharge.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

He told them he thought he had a split personality. He said he doesn't like hurting people, but he sometimes does things that he wasn't aware that he did. Whoa. He also said he heard voices tell him he couldn't trust anyone. And as a result, he only talked to himself. Whoa. He's. He'd see things that weren't there. He'd hallucinate at times, his speech would wander off into weird shit. He would say things that don't make any sense. It's really weird. He was given a 30% disability status at the time, which gave him a small pension.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They should have gave him more than that.

[James Petragallo]

He can't hold a job. He's a wacky son of a bitch. So he's having a lot of this. Little bit of money helps him, obviously. So he gets home, gets discharged, and he has nowhere really to go. So lucky for him, his brother Jeff is in the middle of a divorce. So he moves into Jeff's basement. This is on Sudley Spring Road in Silver Spring, Maryland. He's not, by the way, Haddon will not take the medicine they prescribed him for his paranoid schizophrenia. He's not doing that at all. He just doesn't give a shit and won't do it. So Jeff here, he's got other problems as well. Jeff earned a degree in microbiology at Ohio State University. His brother Brad also had an advanced degree. Really? Yeah. He married his childhood sweetheart. I mean, this is. He is living the American fucking John Cougar Mellencamp song Dream here. And made their way to the Maryland suburbs. And he got a job with the Food and Drug Administration.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

They had a nice house, they have three kids. And then shit turns ugly and they get a divorce. Jeff can't do it. Well, Marsha accuses Jeff of physically abusing her twice. And he was convicted on charges of that. Getting a suspended Sentence for domestic battery as well. Like childhood, you know. Well, speaking of like childhood, let's talk about his other brother, Brad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, Bradfield.

[James Petragallo]

Brad's a bad guy, real bad guy. What's he up to now? Brad's a successful guy. He's good at, you know, college and a job and all that kind of thing. He married a woman in 1977 and they got divorced by 79. Nice in that. That'll work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a. It's about how long you should probably marry.

[James Petragallo]

About two years. You're like, well, this isn't working. Well, let's give it a chance. And it ain't working, okay? Because remember, people get married and they get divorced in like a year. You're like, you didn't even try. You didn't even give it a chance. Two years you go, that's enough. So he had moved to California by the early 80s. He started a good job at a computer firm then he's doing great. He's starting his turn it all around. And then he met a woman on a work related trip to Chicago named Carolyn Calavera. They had a little fling and then Carolyn broke things off in the summer of 84. And after that Brad got weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

This, I don't understand it. It was like seeing this girl for a little bit, seeing this woman not even for that long. And when she didn't want anything to do with him anymore, he's a divorced man. Like he's had relationships fall apart, but this one broke his ass, man. It fucking broke him. Like even his, like people at work noticed he got weird all of a sudden. And anyway, he ends up meeting another woman named Patricia Mack or Mock M A K. And she showed up at work there and Brad liked her and she liked him. That's great. Problem is she's married.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh no.

[James Petragallo]

Which isn't good. Obviously she's not for you. So they, I guess had a little affair, but then she chose to stick with her husband. Right. Which will happen. And. But she still ended up talking to Brad and being kind of. They said they don't know if it was physical at that point, but it was at least an emotional affair, they were saying with Brad. She stayed in contact with him even after she got a different job and left. So she didn't even have to see him every day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But she certainly wants that dick.

[James Petragallo]

She wants something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's certainly a sexual tension there.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Oh, for sure. Why else are you keeping in touch with someone you had sex with unless there's something going on there?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, Reminder that maybe you could do it again.

[James Petragallo]

Something. You never know. At least it's like a dick in a glass case at that point. Case of emergency, smash away. And he looks at it the same way. So there is one time here where Patricia's husband is out of town on business. And Brad invites Patricia over for dinner. So she accepts. Why not? I guess she's gonna come over. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why not. Yeah, well, for her. Why? Let's do it. So Brad, I mean, has a real nice dinner, wine and good food and all this type of thing. By the end of the night, they're chilling at his swimming pool, drinking drinks, doing all this type of shit. They start kissing. They do all that they're getting and they're making out. They go in the house, they're getting into it. Patricia's shirt's off and everything like that. And apparently he starts going to work on her nipples, right? Just licking and stuff like that. He starts biting. Starts biting hard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, what?

[James Petragallo]

To the point where she said, hey, stop. That hurts. Yeah, too hard. So he. But she was. She said, you're gonna leave marks and my husband's gonna see them. You know how that works. But he kept doing it. So she, like, slapped him. Like, hey, stop biting. You know, I get that you're all into it, but you gotta chill the fuck out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thanks for the enthusiasm. But yeah, so.

[James Petragallo]

But Brad gets angry at being slapped, and rather than stopping, he bites the tip of her nipple off. Oh, my God. That's horrifying, dude. That's horrifying. Yeah, he fucking bit her nipple off, man. I don't even know why.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She'S in trouble now.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. So she got away from him, but fell down crying in pain and bleeding, obviously. So apparently a neighbor hears these screams, but doesn't know what's going on, so she doesn't call the cops. Oh, I bet she wished she would have. Or at least this Patricia woman wished she would have. So as Patricia tried to get away, Brad corners her in a room in his house and just beats her beyond recognition.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragallo]

He beat her head so hard that he knocked her out, obviously. And that's when he was like, oh, shit, I've been beating this woman so hard that he, you know, fucking said I knocked her out. So he ends up grabbing his keys, getting a pack of cigarettes and leaving. He takes off on foot, apparently deciding to walk around because he's drunk. She is unconscious and bleeding on his floor. So he walks and smokes and does all this type of Shit. And you'd think he's trying to calm down. That's the thing. Instead, he must have been coming up with some crazy fucking plan because he gets back, and instead of trying to save her and take her to the hospital, he drags her still unconscious body to his bathroom and cuts her right breast off of her body. The one he bit the nipple off of? Yes. Then he took it, left her unconscious on the floor.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She still didn't come to. Oh, my God, she has so much brain damage.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he totally fucking. He beat her savagely. And he's a big guy. He savagely beat her. He took. That's not the weird part, though. He took her breast outside and put it on the grill and cooked it and ate it. What? He cooked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was the idea.

[James Petragallo]

Her breast and ate it from walking.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And smoking, smoking and walking. He's. I got it.

[James Petragallo]

I got it. I'm a little. I'm peckish. I could go for a bite.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Crazy.

[James Petragallo]

So that's wild. He then went inside, he doused Patricia's crotch with rubbing alcohol and set it on fire.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus, she's still alive.

[James Petragallo]

This is fucking crazy. So he then got a butcher knife from the kitchen and absolutely carved her up with it. I mean, came in there and it's fucking horrifying. He cut off her arms. He cut off her legs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragallo]

He cut off her head and even cut her torso in half with very good precision, by the way. Knew what he was doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't do. She died from the dismemberment. That's crazy.

[James Petragallo]

From blood loss. We don't know at what point she died. Who knows? She had a broken skull and we'd have no clue what exactly killed her. But it is horrifying. He then stuffs everything into plastic bags and throws them out in a remote location. Just trash bags. So that's that. So the problem is when his. When her husband gets home, he's pretty worried that his wife is missing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, where's my wife?

[James Petragallo]

She's a real stable lady with a steady job and everything like that. So one thing leads to another and they. Next thing you know, the cops are talking to Brad. Yeah, they talk to her job and they go on her friends, and they know that she's been seeing this guy and all this type of shit. He lied, said she wasn't with me. I don't fucking know. So the cops leave, and then Brad starts to feel some remorse, apparently. So shortly after the police left, he had a mental breakdown and stabbed himself in the stomach in an attempt to commit suicide, but he didn't bleed to death, so he ended up calling an ambulance. So then when he's at the hospital, he confesses to the police about what he did. Remember how you came by earlier asking about her? Well, yeah. So that is pretty fucking interesting. Here Brad is put on trial for first degree murder and he, he cooperates and confesses and he gets 15 years to life for the murder. By the way. He's eligible for parole in 2002. At that point we'll talk about how that worked out. Okay, so back to Haddon. But that's, that's Brad at this point. So while Haddon is losing his fucking mind doing weird shit, his brother has gone completely off the deep end into.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cannibalism, really fucking his life up.

[James Petragallo]

What happened in that house to cause this, you know, like to cause with the parents to cause this shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I hope Allison's okay.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. She is. She took off and said, I never had a family. She just made her own life. Fuck these people. She's the only one who got out unscathed, I feel like. So, October 1985. This is a young nine year old girl named Sarah Pryor that hadn't. Hadn't kills this young girl, she was. She vanished after going for a walk on Route 26 in Wayland at 4pm the priors were new in town, just moved in from Boston or from near Boston and. But she just disappeared into thin air. Her father said don't have any idea what happened. They said that they got in touch with the police department there. She had disappeared in Wayland. They said, quote, at approximately 4:00pm that day, Sarah Pryor told her father she was going for a walk in the neighborhood. We know that she walked north on Concord Road for approximately one and a half miles. She was seen by several individuals at places along the route at some point, don't know exactly where. It's our belief that she was abducted. But we have no crime scene, no witnesses, no physical evidence. We do not know what happened to this child. That's what the police report said they called her. Your basic average happy, go, lucky nine year old girl. Shy around strangers, family oriented, athletic, does well in school. Later on when she's missing, there's a message on the Berlin Wall about her. What people would write messages on the Berlin Wall before they took it down. And one of the messages was about her? Yeah, it said, where is this here? Yeah, they wrote a thing about her disappearance and you know, all that kind of thing. Her father said, I was at home on the Day she was abducted, she had made herself a dish of Jello. She watched a TV show and finished eating the dish of Jello. Then she said she was gonna go out for a walk. I said aren't you gonna clean the dish of Jell O? She said she'd clean it when she got back. She walked out the front door. I never saw her again. Wow, it's wild shit. They said they've kept her room just the same as it was. They said we expect the worst and pray for the best. And the cops said that I work on this case every day, made a parents that I promise to the parents I'll never stop working on it. They also said none of us could believe something this terrible could happen in our community. It was unthinkable. Now people think about it all the time. It's certainly brought right up close that we are not safe here either.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's right.

[James Petragallo]

Safe anywhere. So I guess Sarah was starting to feel comfortable, they said so she was going on walks like exploring because they had just moved there. Her mom said Sarah was shy and I was teaching her to be more trusting of other people. Going for a walk was a big deal for her. She was proud to go explore. The last thing she said to my husband was I'm going to go further today than I've ever gone before. That's the difference between the 80s. In the 80s a nine year old girl would say that and you go okay, bye.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good for you.

[James Petragallo]

Now they'd be like no, you're fucking not now. Without me you're not going anywhere farther than you've gone before. You crazy. So after the girl disappeared, the parents marriage dissolved and it turned into a, a big mess. Obviously it's, it's, it's tough. So they said. Tips have led police to search parts of Boston, Baltimore, Rhode island and Cape Cod for sides of Sarah. All have turned out to be either psychic speculation, cruel frauds or sightings of girls who look like Sarah. So they said the parents said they stopped getting their hopes up after a while. Um, the mother said she, she holds out no hope that Sarah's alive, but she hopes the killer will be caught. She says the mother says she's certain of she knows who did it. Oh, a convicted murderer in Texas named John Worty. She said that's who's responsible for Sarah's death.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why him?

[James Petragallo]

Wayland Police Chief Gerald Galvin, who was headed the investigation in Wayland from the start, said that Wordy, this guy, a 50 year old, was in the area the day Sarah disappeared. Witnesses reported seeing a car similar to Wordy stopped at various points along Concord Road on the afternoon of October 9, 1985. And police believe that he returned to Massachusetts in 1994 after being released early from his prison sentence for strangling a Texas teenager. Six weeks after Sarah disappeared, Wordy tried to force a Newton woman into his car at knifepoint, but the woman escaped. So Wordy was sentenced to 7 to 12 years in Massachusetts prison. After his release, he went back to Texas for violating the conditions of his murder parole and he was put back in prison. Now they questioned him and he told the police, I have nothing to do with that Sarah Pryor shit. And I don't even know anything about it. So no, didn't happen. And he wasn't lying. It's not him. But in the paper the mother's like, he fucking killed my daughter, period. And it wasn't him. Pryors, that family, the Sarah Pryor's family said that the. The Wayland police received anonymous letters that year on December 16th and 17th, that said Sarah's body could be found in a well near six cottages protected by a row of pine trees. Yeah, they were typewritten letters postmarked from Boston, said the well was in rhode island, about 10 miles from the Massachusetts border. They said that Rhode island police failed to turn up any trace of Sarah, though they said the fact that they have not found the body is encouraging. Well, not really because she's probably not. That's not great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're real excited because we haven't found it yet.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, a lot of these people were psychics sending letters too, which is getting hopes up and shit. They offer a reward. A $30,000 reward is offered for information to get Sarah back. They said, we know that a nine year old little girl cannot have disappeared without someone knowing what happened to her. That's a fact.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can tell you what she's not doing is she didn't go get a job somewhere because she doesn't like it here.

[James Petragallo]

She didn't just fucking take off and start college like this is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're real encouraged that we haven't found the body yet. She's probably off being successful somewhere.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I'm sure she started her own business and she's just, you know, when you first start your business, it takes a long time to get it off the ground. She's been working hard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You'll hear about her soon when they write articles about her successful cupcake business.

[James Petragallo]

Nine and a half. She's doing great. So early 1986, Haddon is arrested for shoplifting women's underwear. Okay, so we all knew he did.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the brand new ones, huh?

[James Petragallo]

He wears the women's underwear under his pants. That's what he wears all the time. That's what he likes. During all of this, Haddon Sr. Who had been suffering from pancreatic cancer, commits suicide. He kills himself. That's the move. Pancreatic cancer is a tough one. And I don't know, his son is. One son is a fucking cannibal. Got found out for cannibalism and murder. His other son is a fucking nutcase. I think this guy is just like, okay, his daughter left, ran away, never came back. I think it's just, I'm done.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He probably felt like the pancreatic is penance for what he's given the society, something he should.

[James Petragallo]

Anyway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So May of 1986, Jeff and Hadden, they're living together. Haddon has got himself a cooking job at a local country club, and he's got some money saved up. He's got a pension check coming in, too. So he pays his brother $500 in rent, which is a lot, actually, for a basement in the 80s. But he liked hanging out with his brother, and his brother needed the money, so that's kind of. His brother's going through a hard time. He just got divorced. He lost custody of his kids. And Haddon would help out by occasionally picking up the children for visits if Jeff was at work or something. So Jeff liked the extra money. He liked having help with the kids around the house. So they seemed to get closer. And especially after Brad ends up doing all this crazy shit and eating a woman, that brings them closer, which is interesting. And then their father kills himself. And that also, yeah, now it's just us. Brings them closer. So the Clark brothers found solace with each other, basically, here. So Haddon, for once, was a source of comfort for somebody like Jeff, liked having him around. Haddon went to his father's funeral, came dressed in his Navy uniform, even though he was obviously in the Navy in a long time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you got kicked out.

[James Petragallo]

I was gonna say you got kicked out for being insane. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is not a point of pride. This is disappointment.

[James Petragallo]

That's probably. He probably didn't have a suit. Think about it. It's probably his best suit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that's his only dress. Is his dress white?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that shit is. I look. I mean, it looks sharp anyway, if.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You could still fit it. That's pretty good.

[James Petragallo]

Good shit. Yeah. He's always Pretty thin. So I think he can never even when he's older. So it seemed like he's trying at this point. He would do well with Jeff. Kids, Jeff's kids, when they came and Jeff said it was because Haddon's kind of a big kid himself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

Said he never really matured past a certain age. So maybe that's the deal here. He said it this way. Jeff described him, quote, here was this 6 foot 2 tall inch man who was their emotional age. He was a playmate. But a playmate who could drive a truck to the park and choose the biggest swing. Yeah, Haddon was a playmate who had money to buy them candy and who taught them how to kill skin butcher and cook rabbits he raised in our backyard pen. He was an adult with the social skills of an 8 to 10 year old child. So they started arguing over money though. And also Jeff started arguing with him about how close he was with the kids. You're hanging out with the kids too much. There is even at some point here, Jeff decides that he. Well, not decides. He saw and says later that he saw Haddon fondling himself in front of the children. So he was like, that's about enough of that. Now Jeff at the same time gets engaged to another woman. And so he kicks Haddon out in May of 1986. Like, listen, I got a chick coming in here and you're jerking it in front of the kids. You gotta go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, mostly that second part.

[James Petragallo]

Mostly the second part. But she doesn't want anyone jerking it around my kids either. So he moved out. He finds a cheaper room on the other side of town for $150 a month. But he's pissed. He's pissed he got kicked out. He's not happy now. You'd think that he would just go, yeah, he's got a new woman coming in, he's gonna get married. Not gonna have my weirdo brother living here too in our during the honeymoon, but not him. And then a week after that. This is fucking wild. Or a week before he got kicked out, he was mad at his six year old niece. Anyway, Eliza, who quote, who called him a retard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, here we go.

[James Petragallo]

A six year old called him retard and he wanted to kill her. After that he said for that remark, yeah, I can't kill his father. I'm an adult and I can't kill my dad. So guess what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't kill my dad. You're six and think you're mentally superior to me. You're gonna die.

[James Petragallo]

That's fucking bad. So he is kicked out here and he's having problems. This is May 31, 1986. He's standing outside Jeff's home and it's hot outside and he's standing out there being pissy and I guess he said he's there to give, to get his stuff. He had more stuff there now. Everyone was out, everyone in the house was gone. So there's that. Anyway, he's at the house, he's waiting to pick up a box of his shit and he. As he starts going toward the house, a little girl walks up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh God.

[James Petragallo]

A six year old little girl named Michelle Dorr. D O R R and he knew her, he knew her from where he like, he goes, oh, what's this kid's name? I know this kid. She is just a little cute little girl with freckles and you know, she's Eliza's friend, his little niece and his dad, or this little girl's dad lives on the street, lives two doors away and he's there on the weekends. So this girl's there on the weekends, hangs out with his niece on the weekends. So she's wearing a pink ruffled swimsuit, she's wet. She was playing in the little backyard pool, the little plastic pool. Her home life isn't great either. Her mother, her father would slap around the mother in front of her at times and so she has like a little bit of a stutter and has like some emotional problems from all this crazy stuff that's going on at home. Her mother said later on she had seen too much for a six year old. So back to this current day. She, the little girl asks, where's Eliza? And you know, Haddon said to himself, oh, I can get revenge on little Eliza here for calling me a name. Yeah. So he says, she's in the house upstairs in her room playing with dolls. You can go in if you want.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragallo]

So Michelle walked up the house, went up the steps and when she was out of sight, he went into the back of his tool in his truck and got his toolbox. Now in there he had his toolbox had his chef shit in it. In there he had his knife roll and so he takes his knife roll and this is, he selects a 12 inch long chef's knife and walks in the house, follows this little girl into Eliza's room, throws her to the floor. She didn't even know it was going. It happened so fast. She didn't even scream, she didn't even know it was happening. He threw her to the floor and slashed her with a backhand slash from left to right across her chest. And the second one went back the other way. It looked. She had basically had a Z on her chest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

No, it was like a Z. The way she. The way he did it because it came back, slash, slash, slash.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

It looked like the Zorro sign. Basically, he. Then she is in shock, falls down, he covers up her mouth and he stabs the 12 inch knife through her throat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petragallo]

Obviously the blood goes everywhere. It's an old house with some sloped floors, so blood is going fucking everywhere in the room. He didn't know what to do. He didn't know whether to mop up the blood and cover this up. Or maybe in his mind he should try to have sex with her now that she's dead. He tried that and he couldn't do it. So then he went downstairs, got some plastic trash bags. Did I say that? Yes, I did. I didn't say trash bags. Ran out to his truck, got some rags and his navy duffel bag. Went back upstairs, stuffed her into a plastic bag, then put this body into a duffel bag. Then he mopped up the floor like, you know, wax on, wax off on that kind of shit. He said he did it like on an aircraft carrier. The way he swabbed the deck there, everything had blood on it and everything he could find with blood on it, he was sticking into trash bags. He cleaned up to the naked eye pretty decent. He threw the bags and the body in the bag in the back of his truck and then he raced off to get to his chef's job about 20 minutes away because he couldn't be late. People are obviously looking for Michelle. Clearly she's a six year old girl. So this girl's father, Carl, Carl Doar, he's looking. He looked into the backyard several times. He didn't see Michelle. He said that his father. He said that she just vanished after he had filled the wading pool for her in the backyard and then went inside to watch the Indianapolis 500 on TV.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What year was that?

[James Petragallo]

1986.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

So he said he had last seen her a little after 2 o'clock when she came inside for a towel. So he said he wasn't worried at the time, though, because this is a safe street and it's, you know, nothing exciting ever happens here. It's fine. It's gonna be easy. He said my daughter's probably down the street playing. That's what he thought, with Eliza, which is her friend. So that's what he said, he goes, I looked out there, I didn't see her. But I figured she went down the street with. With Eliza. So he just said whatever and started paying a few bills while watching the Indy 500. She's six, dude. You don't just go, I don't know where my six year old is, but I'm sure she'll turn up. Like, what the fuck? Finally, about 5:30, I said five. It's a three and a half hours. He just let this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a long race, James.

[James Petragallo]

He waited till the fucking checkered flag.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dude, you gotta wait for Rahul to take the.

[James Petragallo]

He had to see fucking Al Unzer Jr. Take the whole thing. He had to sit. The only name I could think of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

From old nascar, that one probably, or Mario Andretti, one of those guys.

[James Petragallo]

One of those fucking guys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So there's only like six fucking Famous Ones.

[James Petragallo]

I know, I don't remember from fucking Indy cars from back then. So he. By that time, it's 5:30, he walks down to Jeff Clark's house to see if his daughter's with Eliza. He finds Jeff in the backyard barbecuing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. His kids are there, Jeff's kids are there, his new girlfriend's there, Eliza's there. No Michelle, though. So Jeff says, I haven't seen Michelle all day. I got home and I've been barbecuing. I have no idea. And so they ask Eliza. Eliza says, I haven't seen her all day either. She didn't come down here to play with me. So Carl was like, what the fuck? So Carl walks around, he walks down to the street, doesn't find anything. Starts knocking on doors. Have you seen my daughter? Is she over here? Is she talking to you? She has no idea. He has. He doesn't know what to do. So he starts panicking, drives around the neighborhood and then heads over to the police station. Reports are missing. When he does that, he becomes their prime suspect.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God. Really?

[James Petragallo]

Absolutely. Estranged father living off here. He's watching her. She disappears. It doesn't look good. So they said that the cops said that when a child disappears, you look at the parents or the caregiver first. Especially if in a divorce situation, it's even more. They said it's usually it's 90% chance that it's either the parents or the caregiver that did something with the child. That's just statistics.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that right?

[James Petragallo]

The detective here, Mike Garvey, who is the first cop to speak with Carl Doar, said it's page one in the handbook. He said the more he looked like, the more Carl was there, the more he looked like the guy. They said he had threatened his wife. He said that he would abduct their daughter just three months before threatening the wife.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, but he regrets those words.

[James Petragallo]

They've been battling in a custody battle for years. Carl was the last to see him alive, and they asked him to take a polygraph test. The polygraph examiner told them Carl might know more about Michelle's whereabouts than he was telling them. And the cops said, that's our fucking guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's our guy. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. Carl said, quote, it was good cop, bad cop. They were right in my face telling me I'd failed the polygraph exam and that it had been 24 hours and they knew she was dead. We were going to find her, they said, and when we do, we're coming to get you. So Carl scared shitless. Also, this girl's Michelle's mother, told the cops she thinks Carl did it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

So, I mean, they're just all on board, Carl. They're not even looking at anybody else. She gave them an extra motive. She said her estranged husband was trying to get out of paying her $400 a month in child support as well, so that would help. So he told the cops he loved his daughter. They said, no, you don't. He took a second lie detector test with a different examiner and passed it. Okay, so then he underwent hypnosis, even to try to prove his innocence. He took sodium pentothal. Truth serum, quote, unquote. And none of this convinced the cops, even though under hypnosis, truth serum, and lie detector, he said he didn't do it. So, yeah, this is not great. They said, nope, it's him. He snapped. He did this and. Yeah, and apparently in a psychotic episode, he told a psychiatrist that he had abducted and killed his daughter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

He didn't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why would he tell him that?

[James Petragallo]

He said, quote, I started hallucinating. I couldn't take the pressure. My brain was soup. When they talk about false confessions, they happen so fucking often. And this is why people's. We sit in our living rooms and watch this shit. And you know, in the best possible conditions, with your drink of choice next to you, eating a fucking snack on your 80 inch fucking LCD TV, this asshole. Like, why would you say that? But when you are in a police station for 24 hours and they're. You're taking fucking every day. This is your day. And your kid's missing and you don't know what's going on, and they're making you take drugs and hypnosis and all, you might just snap. That'll happen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you might start to believe them when they say, we can help you, we can get you home, whatever the fuck.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, and. Exactly. And he. At the. And we know for a thousand percent fact this man did not kill his daughter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't do it.

[James Petragallo]

He absolutely didn't do it. Fucking, you know, Haddon has the details. He knows where the body is. He fucking did it. But this poor guy, he said that his mental state, he started to believe that people on television shows were talking about it. He snapped, dude, his brain broke. His brain fucking broke. He said that he looked behind the TV set, and when he didn't see anything, he thought the police were fucking up the TV reception.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petragallo]

That's how fucking crazy is. The next day, Carl got into his car, drove to his father's grave, and began talking to his headstone, thinking the headstone was speaking back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy, he's having a break.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He said, I believed that if I could find Michelle, I could bring her back to life. And if I was able to do that, then I must be Jesus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's not wrong.

[James Petragallo]

He went from watching. He went from watching an Indy car race to three days later believing that he may be Jesus and he's going to bring his dead daughter back from the grave. He also, because he said that he could do that, he began calling himself the White Messiah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, holler at me, man, because I'll believe it if you can bring a little girl back. I'm listening.

[James Petragallo]

I'll watch if you can do it. Yeah. So anyway, the cops took this all as a confession, basically. So they bring him in again and again and again and again. He's eventually committed to a psychiatric hospital for 72 hours of psychiatric observation because he's acting so crazy. Soon as he got out, they questioned him again. Now he's just basically the thing he did, though, he was ashamed that he had neglected his daughter because he knew that he should have kept a better eye on her. So he fudged the timeline. That's why Hadden is never considered a suspect.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[James Petragallo]

He told the cops it was around 2:10pm that, that she left rather than a little before 2. That 15 minutes gives Haddon a perfect alibi because he was at work after that. So if he said the truth, then Haddon would have been a suspect because they talked to Haddon, they talked to all the neighbors, but he wasn't a suspect because the timeline didn't fit the timeline. Yeah, he finished his so back. Meanwhile, while all this is going on, Haddon finishes up his shift at the country club and begins driving with Michelle's body in his pickup truck. Yeah, in the back. He's got the cap on it, so, I mean, he can't see it, like at a stoplight or anything. He stopped off at the nearby Bethesda Naval Hospital to get the cut on his hand fixed up. That's part of his benefits package when he was discharged from the Navy. He leaves the hospital about midnight, drives toward Baltimore on old Columbia Pike. He saw some woods, pulled over to the shoulder of the road and stopped. So he said if the cops came by, he was ready to tell them that he just was trying to piss and he couldn't wait, so he had to pee right there. He grabbed the duffel bag, flashlight, and a shovel from the back of his truck, went over the guardrail.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just tell him he's making potatoes.

[James Petragallo]

Just like I'm doing stuff down here. Yeah, making pissy potatoes. Anybody needs some pissy potatoes? So he goes into a ravine, into the woods. At the base of a tree, he dug a grave, four feet long, digging until he hit Clay. Basically couldn't dig anymore. Took the little girl from the duffel bag and put her in there. But before he finished, he had one more thing to do. He ate a piece of her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is the deal?

[James Petragallo]

He had to taste it. I don't know. What about. What about this family causes two people to not only think, I'll kill somebody, but I should probably see what they taste like also sample it. Who the fuck thinks of that? We've covered a lot of murderers. Most of them don't think I should probably get a taste.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's wild, man.

[James Petragallo]

That is fucked up. So he covered her with parts of an old mattress he found nearby and some leaves, and then fucking went back to his place. That was it. Went back to his rented room. June 8, 1986. Now, this is nine days later. A detective Wayne Farrell is cruising around the neighborhood on Sudbury Road where this all happened. He was trying to figure out anything here. And he found Hayden. He found Haddon in the driveway of his brother's house fucking with his truck engine. The cop said, were you here yesterday? And he said for about two or three minutes. So this guy, this detective later on, told another detective about this encounter that there was a guy on the street for about three minutes. He said that he had checked around and that Hayden, or Hadden Clark, seemed to be the Neighborhood weirdo. Yeah. So this guy is this detectives boss said go ahead and bring him in for a fucking chit chat here. So they do, they call in, they call Jeff and Jeff calls Haddon because they didn't know how to get a hold of Haddon. Hadn't goes to the police precinct the next morning. He's supposed to, he was on time. But they let him chill in there for a little bit and do all of that. He said he punched the client time clock at the country club where he worked at 2:46 that afternoon. And they did some figuring. They said, well, if Carl saw his daughter at 2:10 then Haddon Clark couldn't have found, abducted and killed someone, then hit a body within 36 minutes. That's impossible. And, and drove 20 minutes to work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. That's gotta, you gotta have a plan to do that.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. They said they weren't about to, you know, they said they weren't allowed about. They were going to question him, but they thought that, you know, his alibi's probably pretty solid. They went at him a little bit soft. They asked him about the rabbits he had raised behind his brother's house and his life and all that kind of shit. They started asking him about the kids in the neighborhood. And Haddon complained that one of the little boys had kicked him in the testicles while he was playing with a group. A, why you playing with a group of kids? B, you have six year olds kicking you in the balls and calling you a retard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a weird day.

[James Petragallo]

What a fucking day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why do you set yourself up to have that day?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. So he said he didn't like that kid.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

He also said he once playfully pinned a little girl to the ground. There is no playful way that an adult man pins a little girl to the ground.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not your own. You don't do that.

[James Petragallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not a relative.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Not your own. And not laughing and having horseplay with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Their parents present if it's not yours.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Still, even then, no good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. That could be precarious.

[James Petragallo]

Also no good. So they said to him, is that what you did with Michelle? And they pulled out a little, a picture of her and they said he began rocking back and forth in his chair and he began crying and not looking at the photo, which is not good. Not good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the worst response to this picture that you could have.

[James Petragallo]

It's the worst thing you could do. Not. Oh yeah, I've seen that kid. That's the right response. Yeah, that's the one Response.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Talking and crying is such a good.

[James Petragallo]

And refusing to look at the picture again, bad. So they said again, is that what you did with Michelle? And he mumbled an answer. Mumbled an answer. And then out of nowhere he says, I feel sick. Do you have a bathroom? And he ran into the police station bathroom and began vomiting loudly into the toilet with the cop standing right behind him, watching him like, holy shit. That's the craziest response to a fucking photo we've ever seen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a cute kid. You shouldn't be throwing up.

[James Petragallo]

This is. Yeah. Wow. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This guy hates kids.

[James Petragallo]

He either hates kids or really loves kids. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a Little bit about life360. A new year. Things are going on. You're juggling your family. You got school, things to do. And I know you're on the streets.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got a new driver in the house.

[James Petragallo]

You have a new driver in the house like Jimmy does here. You're juggling all this stuff you need to get Life360. It's a location sharing app that works whether you're on iPhone, Android, doesn't matter. Life360 makes coordinating your family's daily routines and activities so much smoother. You open up the app, you can see real time locations for everyone in your family. That takes away all the stress of wondering, where are they? Are they going to be here in 10 minutes? When are they coming?

[Jimmy Whisman]

How fast are they going?

[James Petragallo]

Like you do with your son. You can monitor. That's great. Jimmy's been monitoring his son because he's a new driver. That's what's awesome. It really does. You can coordinate things, you know, and you. Because, I mean, obviously you could text somebody, but you don't want them texting and driving. So this way you can just look at it. It's really awesome. It's amazing how much more coordinated your family can be. Family proof your family with Life 360. Visit life360.com or download the app today and use code Small Town murder to get 15% off. That's life360.com code small town murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

So then he's throwing up and they're yelling at him. What did you do? The parents need to know. Tell me what happened. They need to bury their child. An accident. Let's talk about it. And he was throwing up. So what they did is as he continued to throw up, they slid a photo of Michelle under the stall door. Oh, God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus. Do you need more fuel for that vomit?

[James Petragallo]

And said, what did you do? Yeah, between heaves, he said, quote, I don't know, I may have done something. Sometimes I black out and do things I don't remember. Oh, boy, that's a tv. All of these are the worst answers you could possibly give. But he then said again, he said, but I was there at 2:46. I checked into work at 2:46. And the detective checked his notes. He had called the country club. He checked in at 2. He fucking punched in at 246. So they were like, he may be crazy, he may be a weirdo, but he's not a time traveler. So there's no fucking way he could do this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a punctual weirdo.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he's a punctual weirdo. But they said there's no way the timeframe works. So they don't know why he's reacting like this. But who the fuck knows? Carl Doar gave him an alibi, essentially.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn it.

[James Petragallo]

So this crime won't be solved now. They can't ever pin it on the father. They didn't do anything with Haddon, so it just goes cold as shit. So for the next few years, Haddon's mental state just goes to shit. It's not good. Oh, man, it's really bad. He stopped renting his room for $150 a month, even though he could very easily afford it, and starts living in the back of his pickup truck under the cab. Then he would Often set up camp in the woods just off the interstate. Yeah, nobody would hire him as a chef probably because he has like woodland animals in his beard and shit like that. Burrs stuck to his clothes, they're like, I don't think so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pine needles in his face.

[James Petragallo]

He's working odd jobs as a gardener and things like that. He would work at fast food places. He'd do whatever just to. He doesn't need money, he doesn't spend it on anything. So November of 1987, he is stopped for speeding in Montgomery County, Maryland. That's over 10 miles an hour over the limit. And then March of 88, he stopped again for speeding in Montgomery County. Same thing again. So he needs ticket money. That's all he needs here. So he tried to get help a few times. One time he showed up at a veterans hospital and then stayed a few days, got a few doses of Haldol and then took off and went back to the woods. So a doctor's diagnosis was this quote. His mental state is psychosis with questionable etiology. He states that birds and squirrels talk to him and keep him company. He's tearful at times with intermittent outbursts of anger and agitation. He's a potential danger to himself through poor judgment and self defeating behavior. And he told the doctor, I think I have a split personality. I don't like to hurt people, but I do things I'm not aware of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, and you're a psycho Cinderella. This is fucking horrific.

[James Petragallo]

This is wild shit. So he ends up he's boarding in 1988. He is staying at the house of an older couple, but they asked him to leave because their daughter had to move into the house and wanted to use that room when he left. He stole tools, records and some rare books. And also he wrapped fish heads in plastic and hid them around the house. Oh, he fished him. He shrimped them. As gl. Magical joke it goes. He shrimped them. Shrimped them up good. Yeah. That is a horrible thing. Yeah. There's this place I worked, they pulled a prank on this one kid. Man, I felt so bad for him. He had no. It was Phoenix in the summer and he didn't have air conditioning. He was driving a Saturn with no air conditioning and they put a fucking fish under his front seat when he got to work in the morning. And he worked 9, 10 hours of 115 degree day and then opened the door.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

And you can imagine how overwhelming that was. He couldn't find it for a while.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh no, they left it in there.

[James Petragallo]

Oh yeah, yeah. And then finally found it. He couldn't find it, so he drove home. And then finally found it. And then the car never would. You could never get that out of the car. It was there forever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The company I worked at, they had to retire a truck that. They did that to me with a tilapia under the front seat.

[James Petragallo]

It'll do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A Memorial Day weekend.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, my God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

With the windows up. And I threw up. I opened the door and threw up.

[James Petragallo]

He did, too, I think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they had to retire the truck. It was useless.

[James Petragallo]

At least that was a work truck, where they just give you another one. This poor bastard, he drove a Saturn with no air conditioning, which is not a choice. That is the best he could get. And now he has a Saturn with no air conditioning that reeks of fish.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They sent it out to die, it came back, and it smells worse.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, you just angered the hive at that point. It's made it worse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a dead animal, man. And it's. It just smells like death. And it. It never goes away.

[James Petragallo]

Nope. Late one night, he hanged their cat and left it on the doorstep.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dude, after it's already over, like, he fished them, he shrimped him, and then he did this, came back and hung the cat.

[James Petragallo]

That's not all either. We'll get back into more.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, he's just terrorizing these people with the worst things.

[James Petragallo]

He later told the detective, I knew that would get to him. I knew that would hurt him, you know, killing them and ruining their house. So September 88, his mother confronts him for stealing items from her home in Rhode Island. He visited his mom, and during his stay, he started stealing shit. She caught him and screamed at him. She said, what are you doing stealing from me? He knocked her down and started to kick her. Then he got in his truck and tried to run her over. She dove out of the way just in time to not get run over by his truck. So she presses charges of assault and battery, and he gets one year of probation. She writes him a letter saying that he is dead to her and that she does not love him anymore, which is just what he needs. She said she was going to pretend he was dead until he got some help from a veterans hospital. She said, always remember that your mother and father loved you. And she said, wrote the word loved in past tense several times. December 25th, Christmas Day, 1988. He's pulled over for speeding in Montgomery county, and they find an unregistered loaded.38 caliber handgun in his possession.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yikes.

[James Petragallo]

He got a suspended sentence in Probation for that. Back to the. The people's house that he put the fish heads on here. His landlord said there he seemed crazy and evil and he booby trapped the house. Oh, this is a complete. Yeah, this is the same one. In addition to the fish head and the stealing and the. The fucking cat, he also balanced a 10 gallon can of oil on top of the door so that it would spill when it was pushed open. You know, like a cartoon. And after black. And he sprayed black dye all over the living room carpet and hid the fish heads inside the family's piano, the chimney, the stove. All places you wouldn't look. Holy shit. They said in the chimney.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's gonna smoke a fish head too.

[James Petragallo]

That's. Yeah. Well, that is the only one that fucking probably will get.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That one probably smelled. Probably smells nice.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Put a little pepper on it, a little garlic, that could smell. The charging document read, the smell of decaying fish permeated the house and was extremely difficult to eradicate.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

His former landlord said his lifestyle is getting even and then said, we feel scared. After that, he told us about getting even with other people. So they were still scared. He pleaded guilty as part of a deal which dropped the unlicensed, loaded handgun offense. No jail time is served and he has a suspended sentence and is assigned to a probation officer and ordered to get psychiatric treatment. There we go. That's the first time that's good. So he does. But he left immediately after being admitted. So he's got problems. February 1989, he gets in trouble for dressing up as a woman and going into local churches and stealing purses and wallets out of coke. During, like, ladies church meetings, he goes in dressed as a woman and steals from them. Fifteen counts of theft he is charged with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Done it a lot.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he did it all over the. All different churches. Women would be inside doing choir practice. He would go to the cloak room and steal all their shit because they would figure, you know, no one's gonna steal their purse from church. He was. On the day he was arrested, he pulled over to the shoulder of the road and he was screwing around with his car. A cop offered assistance. This is the crazy thing. No one. He didn't get pulled over. He was dicking with his car. A cop pulled up and said, hey, can I help you with your car? And he panicked, began fumbling around the front seat trying to hide coats and purses. And he just yelled at the cop, no, no, you can't go in my truck. He's like, I didn't want to Till now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's where all my stuff's at.

[James Petragallo]

Now I really want to. I didn't before.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'd sure like to now.

[James Petragallo]

But the cops saw a black gun holster hanging at the top of a seatbelt restraint, and they wanted to see what else they had. Then they saw the women's purses and coats and said, are these yours? And he said, yes. And they said, they're yours. And he said, yes, I'm a woman. Nice beard, ma'am. Terrific. What I'm saying is because he's dressed in full man's regalia, working on his car, so. So they search further. They find women's wigs, a hypodermic syringe, women's dresses, and a thick roll of cash. Yeah, got a bunch of cash, which is wild. So, 17 counts of criminal indictment, 15 for theft, and possession of controlled paraphernalia. For the syringes, obviously. So, anyway, he's gonna plead guilty like we said, and he's sentenced to 18 months, but the judge suspends all but 45 days.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petragallo]

Now he serves 45 days in jail before he posts his bond and later boasted that he did it on purpose because it's cold in February and it was warmer than jail than in his truck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Didn't want to be outside anyway.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he said it was more comfortable in the county detention center than in the freezing cold. He said he liked the three meals a day and a roof over his head. And they had movies every Thursday, so it wasn't too bad in there. This is great. It was like summer camp to him. He said he was reluctant to leave when spring arrived.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That should let you know how bad your life is. Get it to fucking get it to jail is better.

[James Petragallo]

You're like, this is great. I don't even want to listen. It's like a spa to him, though. He looks at it like a spa.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a vast improvement of his life.

[James Petragallo]

Holy shit. Now, they said they gave him three years probation because he had serious mental problems. The Maryland judge said the defendant has serious mental problems and is now addressing them. Them. And his public defender, Donald Salzman, was so sympathetic, he wrote a letter for Haddon Clark and instructed him to hand it to any police officer the next time he was arrested.

[Jimmy Whisman]

License, registration. Well, read this here.

[James Petragallo]

The note read, to any police officer, I want the help of my lawyer, Donald P. Salzman, and I want my lawyer to be present before I answer any questions about my case or any other matters. I do not wish to speak to anyone concerning my criminal charges pending against Me or anyone else or any criminal investigation, regardless of whether I am charged, I do not want to be in any lineup or give any handwriting samples or give any blood, hair, urine or any other samples unless my lawyer is present and then gives the lawyer's address and phone number. So this is. Just give them this rather than have you say dumb shit and cry when they show you an 8 year old's picture.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's gonna stink of a sovereign citizen, but they're gonna get to the bottom.

[James Petragallo]

And they'll have to go, oh, I get it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, you're crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, you're insane. I see. But by 1990, living in the woods is cheap and he saves money. He has $40,000 saved. Over $40,000 by 1990, just saved up. So, yeah, they said that he defied the stereotypes of homeless people. They said he was super industrious and he was always doing shit, like he wasn't lazy or any bullshit. They said he tries hard to feed himself. He's a little standoffish sometimes, but he wants social acceptance. They said that he, you know, he plays chess. He does things like that. He joins the First Baptist Church of Bethesda. He's not doing okay. He's doing all right. The reverend said he came for the social aspect. He's a little loud sometimes and would make remarks that were immature. He was aware of that. And he didn't have social skills. They said he was a man to whom friends were invaluable. He wanted friends really bad, but nobody liked him. No. Except for the kids. And then they started calling him names and kick him in the ball. So they said he would tell you he had days when he got depressed. One person from the group said, I tried to avoid talking to him. He talked nonsense. I stayed away from him. 1992, penny hofteling. Okay. H O U G H T E L I N G. She is a psychotherapist and a lady who lives in Bethesda and her daughter Laura. She has a daughter named Laura, who in 1992 was at Harvard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fantastic.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Just doing really well here. Totally well. So Penny, the mom needs a gardener now. This is about 10 miles from where he had murdered and eaten Michelle Dorr in 1986. Penny likes to help people who need help. Basically, she's a nice lady and she's a psychiatrist. And so, you know, add all that together. She thought she was doing a good deed when she hired a homeless man from a local church organization in 1992. And that is Pat, our guy here. So she hires him as a gardener. And he immediately becomes very attached to Penny, like she's his mother in a motherly way, because he doesn't have a mother now and he has the mentality of an eight year old and has no mother. He needs a mother. Yeah, he needs a mother now. He's a good worker. He does all his job and shit like that. And he's real good. He tended to her zinnias and pruned her perennials so well that she began to invite him into the house and let him have run to the kitchen. He was allowed to make himself coffee and use the bathroom without asking if he could come in. After a while, Penny starts noticing little things are missing. Oh, pearls, pearl necklace is missing. Her underwear is missing. Oh, clothing starts to become missing. So she was not a very observant person, Penny and had a lot of stuff and didn't really care that much. But a strand of pearls disappeared and she noticed that, but she didn't want to confident confront him about it. Penny once complained to Haddon about some missing gardening tools and he blew up and yelled at her, was like, how dare you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So she was like, shit, my bad, sorry. Rather than firing him, she backed off. So Laura, after she graduates from Harvard In June of 92, she comes back home and he doesn't like it because he's the child and now her daughter's home and she's paying all his attention to Penny and he's jealous. He's jealous. He said she appeared to like her more than him, you know, because it's her daughter and you're a homeless guy she hired to trim the fucking zinnias. What are you talking about? So within a couple of days of her returning, he starts plotting to get back at this Laura for how dare she come home. October 13, 1992, Penny tells Haddon that she's going away to a conference for a week. She said, I'll be gone from the 20th, from the 17th of October to the 25th. So just so you know, you don't have to come that week. October 14th, the next day after she told him that 1992, he purchases two rolls of duct tape, braided rope and a nylon cord, pays with a check.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shouldn't be able to be bought together.

[James Petragallo]

He said, go. No, you have to get like, you need like drywall or something to go with this. You need some other building materials.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't just need this, you son of a bitch.

[James Petragallo]

Fuck. What are you gonna get a little shovel too? Is that what you Want? No. So he wrote a check for this and in the memo part of the check, he wrote Laura on it. This is. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You shouldn't be able to buy those.

[James Petragallo]

And for sure Laura, if you are. Who's Laura? You should have to ask. Who the fuck is that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't get to write victim.

[James Petragallo]

That is crazy, man. So Saturday, October 17, 1992. Laura went to a horse meat. I don't know what that is. I think you have to be a rich person to know what a horse meat is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Horse meat.

[James Petragallo]

Horse M E E T Not. She's not going to eat horse meat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petragallo]

She's going to meet with horses, apparently in Middleburg, Virginia.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Car meet. You know what I mean?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get together, park them in a parking lot.

[James Petragallo]

I was going to say line them all up and you just go up and lift the tail, look at their buttholes and yeah, it looks like a good horse there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know about 2014.

[James Petragallo]

That's what you got there. That's a nice horse. So there was a gala dinner party following the event afterwards. The next day is a Sunday, October 18th. Laura slept in. She watched some football games with her older brother Warren and his roommate. She had taken a temporary job in Washington until she decided whether to go on to law school or become a teacher. Don't go to Harvard and then become a teacher. Not that that's bad, but I just mean for money wise, you're gonna get.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unless you're gonna be a teacher at Harvard.

[James Petragallo]

That's what I mean. It's gonna be. You didn't need to go to Harvard to get a job as a teacher is what we're saying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've done this at the community college.

[James Petragallo]

And not owe $200,000 in fucking student loans. So I guess there was a big project at the firm due to start the next morning. So she went to bed early, just after 10 o'clock that night on Sunday the 18th. But she's in bed about two hours when just about midnight, Haddon parked his truck on the street next to their house to Penny and Laura's house. He went to Penny's gardening shed and grabbed the spare house key that was kept inside. He knew about that. He, by the way, he's wearing full regalia. He's wearing clothes that he stole from Penny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petragallo]

He has a wig on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a nightmare.

[James Petragallo]

He has her underwear. He's carrying a black purse. He's wearing her lingerie all the way to the purse. Purse, lingerie, blouse, slacks, underwear, purse, wig, full costume. So he's going as. As Penny, basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Horror movie shit.

[James Petragallo]

He also wore a woman's trench coat, and underneath the trench coat, he concealed a.22 caliber rifle. He opened the door, tiptoed into Laura's room, used the gun to nudge her awake. Yeah, okay. She woke up. And he yelled at her, why are you in my bed? So you're awoken. You awaken to a strange man dressed as your mother.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Pointing a gun at you and saying, why are you in my bed? You'd have to think that was a dream at first, right? You close your eyes, reopen them like three times, and be like, this isn't real. Right. Laura just sat there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Spaghetti. That late?

[James Petragallo]

What the fuck? God damn it. Spicy, Spicy. Don't eat Indian food. Not past seven. God damn it. Did I have too much coffee tonight? So Laura just lays there, terrified. What the fuck? So he yells again, what are you doing in my bed? And she was like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Then he said, why are you wearing my clothes? So Laura started to cry. She didn't know what to do. She's like, what's happening? Then he yelled at her, tell me I'm Laura.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What in the fuck?

[James Petragallo]

Tell me I'm you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So she said, you're Laura. Please don't hurt me. I'll call you anything you want. I'll call you fucking anything. I'll call you fucking President Eisenhower if you want. I don't give a shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't give a fuck.

[James Petragallo]

Doesn't matter to me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're it.

[James Petragallo]

Kermit the Frog. Great. Please don't kill me. He asked her. He got a Bible out and asked her to swear on the Bible that he was Laura. So she said, sure. Okay. Then he holds the gun on her and tells her to get up, get undressed, and get in the bath.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't like this.

[James Petragallo]

No. So he does. She does that, as instructed. At gunpoint, she takes a bath. He then leads her back into the bedroom and made her lie down on her stomach. Okay. His plan was to take her to a campsite in the woods. And he told her he was going to, quote, introduce you to Haddon. He bound her wrists with duct tape and her ankles, then turned her over and started covering her mouth with duct tape. But he. He just got so into it. He just kept wrapping it around her head, around her eyes and her nose and just her whole head. She couldn't breathe and suffocated.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petragallo]

So he said, fuck, she's laying There still, he started taking the tape off her face with a pair of scissors. And his hand, he said, slipped and he stabbed her in the neck. And then blood started coming out. So he, rather than go, what do I do? He started looking down at her neck and became fascinated with her earrings and took the them like those earrings. So he had a hard time getting the second one off. So he just got a pair of scissors and snipped off her earlobe with the scissor with the earring on it. He then sat by her bed and just stared at her nude dead body for an hour. At times he said he touched. Touched her breasts, but said that he neither raped her or practiced cannibalism on her remains. So at three in the morning, he wrapped her body in a queen size sheet, threw her over his shoulder and put her in a narrow bed underneath the cap of the rear of his truck. Okay, that's his bed that he sleeps on. He then went back inside, gathered up the bloody evidence, the sheet, the mattress pad, the pillowcase. Carried him outside along with Laura's high school ring, a crystal uniform and some other our unicorn and some knickknacks from her room and some other personal shit he put in his pocket. Then he laid down and slept in her bed inside. Left the house at 8 in the morning. He was wearing a woman's, wearing the whole wig and carrying the purse. A housekeeper standing with a child waiting for a school bus would later tell the police she thought that was Laura headed out to her job. Because Laura's about 6ft tall. She's a real tall girl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, big gal.

[James Petragallo]

So they just thought it was Laura going to work. Instead, he got in his truck, drove two blocks to the parking lot of a nearby church, backed his truck into a corner of the lot and went to sleep again next to her dead body in the back of the Sleepy fella. He's very sleepy. Well, he's got a lot of. He's all tuckered out. That's the thing. He's got to go and do a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's wild that he brought a gun and then and like just personally didn't do anything with it.

[James Petragallo]

I don't think that's how he meant to kill her. I think he meant to kill her in a different way and accidentally duct taped her too much and went oh shit, I broke it. He's like a kid who was trying to keep a fucking fly in a jar and then I ripped a wing off and was like, oh no, now what? So the next morning, while he Slept. Laura's employer is calling the house, getting the answering machine. She's never not. She's never did a no call, no show, so. So they think it's odd, so they send someone to the house to look around. That's how dependable she is. They send someone out there. This was a friend of hers. She rang the doorbell, got no answer. She called Laura's brother and started calling her friends. And so everyone said, oh, we'll look around for her. Her brother Warren decided to walk the route that Laura takes to the bus stop that she would use to go to work. He walked down the street, and as he walked down the street, he saw Haddon Clark driving toward them in his pickup truck. He was planning on coming back to the house to steal more, but now everybody's there, oh my God. So Warren waved him down because he knew he was the gardener and was like, hey, do you know anything? Have you seen my sister around anywhere? And Haddon said, you know, he pulled over and the guy said, hey, have you seen my sister? And as he's asking, he just guns it and takes off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His answers to questions are always wrong.

[James Petragallo]

They're always wrong. He could have just said no and then drove away. Nope, I don't know. I haven't been around. That would have been easy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So Officer chase him, obviously.

[James Petragallo]

Fuck. So he decided, I better bury her because they're looking for her. So he stumbled with her, gets off to a spot on the ice270, just across the highway from his campsite. And he drops her about 20ft from the road, digs a hole, digs a shallow grave, puts her in it, covers a body with dirt and leaves. In the months to come, though, animals are going to find this and they dig her up and they get the remains quite a bit. Yeah. And also later on, we'll find her wrists and lower extremities would rise above the ground from heavy rains washing the earth away.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So he's nervous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Horrifying.

[James Petragallo]

So he drives north to. Toward New England. Here in Rhode island, he stops and stuffs the bloody sheets, mattress pad and the items he stole from Laura in a self storage locker that he rented yearly. He keeps the pillowcase for himself, though. It's a trophy. It's a trophy because it's got blood on it. So he drove back to Washington thinking he did a pretty good job. The cops in Maryland want to talk to him though, because Warren and Penny both mentioned his name. When his description was phoned in the headquarters, they went, oh, wasn't this the Guy who we thought killed that little girl. Same area, 10 miles away. So they said that to Penny, and Penny said Haddon wouldn't hurt anyone. He's just a gardener. It's not him. He didn't hurt anybody. She's a psychotherapist, this woman. She should know better. No, she wants the best of people. So the cops, here they go. I don't think so. So they remembered him vomiting in the bathroom and having, you know, only getting off because of that alibi. And the one guy said, haddon Clark? Absolutely. Let's go. Let's get him. That son of a bitch got away once. This is the cop on the phone. Let's go fucking get him. He said that, you know, we'll wait till tomorrow. Basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So OJ Stealing his shit. Not. Not this time.

[James Petragallo]

Not this time. Motherfucker. So hadn't drove down to the same church parking lot near Penny and Laura's house. He went into his truck, found the bloody pillowcase, ran into some woods that bordered the church, threw the pillowcase near the base of a tree and went back to his truck. And he fell asleep. So, by the way, at the scene of the crime at the house, they found a butcher knife on the kitchen counter. Her bed looked like it was scrubbed clean. It did show traces of a large amount of blood covering almost the entire mattress, though, on there. So they talked to him. A detective, Ed Tarney, sits him down and said, have you seen Laura? He said, quote, I'm so scared, and started crying. Not the right response.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Once before.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, maybe that'll work. So they said, hey, there's nothing to be afraid of. And then Haddon got down on one knee and said, oh, God, I just want to die.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I thought he was going to propose.

[James Petragallo]

You're the only person for me, Detective. They said he was wearing a T shirt, jeans, and a woolen sailor's cap. They asked him whether he thought Laura was pretty. He said he hadn't paid much attention to her. Okay, when they asked, just throw a question out. He goes, what'd you do with her? What'd you do with her? He pulled the cap down over his face and refused to talk anymore. He said, going inside now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't see you like the guy from Fat Halbert.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, except with no eye holes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, we can. And you're still there, man.

[James Petragallo]

An eight year old would do that, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

An eight year old would go, I'm gonna hide now. You can't see me. So the detective said, we didn't know what we had at that Point, we knew we had a nut. But was this head case smart enough to hide her body and clean up the crime scene? We just didn't know if he was that sophisticated. So they let him go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Because they have no evidence. They just have. He's acting weird. So that's interesting. Yeah. At one point, they get him back. He's escorted by the head of a local homeless group named Sue Snyder. And the cops were gentle because they had nothing to arrest him on. And he's got somebody with him. He had an alibi for everything except the time Laura was killed. He said, well, it was the middle of the night, you're saying, So I was sleeping. He left the station and began crying. And the Sue Snyder lady asked him why he was crying. And he said, I feel so bad for Penny and Warren. So when Laura never turned up, ever, the local cops did a complete search of the area. A dog from the K9 unit led them into the woods near Penny's house that bordered the church. There they turned up one of Penny's bras, a woman's blouse, a high heeled shoe, and the bloody pillowcase. Taken to a lab, they determine it's the same blood type as Laura. Then they notice there is a single fingerprint on the blood. Oh, yeah. So they haul in Haddon again while they're testing this. And he says, as he's being caught, as he's being hauled in, I'm just a homeless man. I don't have any friends. I'll be jobless after this too. And they said, we found a pillowcase in the woods. It had a fingerprint on it. The print is yours. They don't know whose it is yet. They haven't tested. It's being tested, but they were hoping that maybe he would do something. He began whimpering and crying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not the answer either.

[James Petragallo]

They said, what did you do with her? And he said, I don't remember. Bad answer. Bad answer. But you know what they had to do. They still let him go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, because they don't have anything.

[James Petragallo]

They don't have anything. So they had nothing to hold him on. Then they used search warrants. They examined his bank accounts, found a copy of the check that said Laura on it. They also located his campsite and searched it, but didn't find Laura. The next Sunday, he attended church. In the collection plate, he left a note that said, hadn't I Clark Homeless? Is life really worth living anymore? Or is it time to commit suicide? That's in the collection plate. He also sends the Family, Penny and the rest of the family. A sympathy card that reads, just please give me a call when you're ready to do some gardening again. Also, I can bring you bagels on Friday too. He's offering to pick up fucking bagels. He's like, I'll make a bagel run. Wow, that is fucking wild, man. So the police obviously match up the fingerprints and he's arrested on October 22, 1992 for murder. They saw him, they peeked through the windows of the truck. Cap, he's inside. When they arrested him, he's asleep, hugging a teddy bear. He's fucking eight, man. He's an eight year old pervert.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Super wrong.

[James Petragallo]

So they arrested him. They told him, you're under the arrest for, for murder of Laura. And he said, okay. That's all he said. Didn't fight, didn't do anything. They took him in a room and they watched him through a one way mirror. He looked around. They let him keep his teddy bear in there. At one point, he's in there alone with the teddy bear. It's sitting on the table. He leaned over and says to the teddy bear, quote, not getting out of this one. And then sits back to the teddy bear. He said that. And it said in the Boston accent. Let me handle this, pal. It's all right. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Got any weed?

[James Petragallo]

Got any weed or whatever over here? Come on. So yeah, that is fucking crazy. So he didn't confess, but during questioning they said he lapsed into voices. An infant, a woman and a man who said they were just said to look for, quote them in New Jersey. So they looked through his, one of his boyhood neighborhoods in Warren, New Jersey, but found nothing. So this is obviously a huge deal in this area. People freak out. It's crazy. One of the spokesman for the Montgomery County Township Police Department said, two brothers, isn't that incredible? No shit, it's not that incredible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, it makes sense.

[James Petragallo]

He said it's very odd to have brothers involved in capital murders on two coasts of the country. That doesn't happen too often.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Being separate, separately.

[James Petragallo]

They didn't do it together. Yeah, yeah. Then another, an officer with the Montgomery County Police Department said, he has a glare, he looks at you with that just sends chills down your spine. Everybody compared him to Hannibal Lecter. That's what they all compared him. Because they knew he ate somebody too later on. Wow. So yeah, he's gonna go to jail here. By the way. His brother at the time is in Tracy, California in prison where he's a model prisoner dabbling in Judaism at the time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really.

[James Petragallo]

And is eligible for parole in 2002, which, spoiler alert, he doesn't get. You're not getting out. He barbecued. You're not getting out on first parole. Well, I thought about the error of my ways and I thought, you know, barbecue sauce would be a better way to go about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Next time you charbroiled the titty, man. It's not happening.

[James Petragallo]

He's like. I realized pork is a better thing than more normal thing to cook on the grill. So neighbors said they remember him as being a little bit weird. One neighbor said, I just remember him snapping and getting angry. Then you just kind of walked away. And he would calm down. That's what everybody would say here. Another guy who grew up with him said that he remembered him being quiet and a little slow. But they remembered at one point, Mrs. Clark Flavia trying to stop a snowplow from clearing the street so her four children could sled. That's what mom is like, overbearing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that?

[James Petragallo]

I will stop. No one can drive on the street because I want my kids to sled on it. It's crazy, selfish.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That changed the entire day of everybody. For my children to be able to run around.

[James Petragallo]

Okay, so they bring bloodhounds and find no trace of Laura. Here, the two dogs searched a square mile of woods here in Warren to try to find the scent of Laura. Here, the two dogs, Sherlock and Buford, which are very good bloodhound names. Yeah, Sherlock, because you're sniffing him and a bloodhound just looks like a Buford.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And also they look like they would wear a Sherlock Holmes hat.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's what. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Well, it's like best in show when he's talking about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, he goes, is that dog's name Buford? Are they from Buford?

[James Petragallo]

I don't know. No, they're from Pine. Pine nut, whatever. Because. Will you stop naming nuts? I love that. What if you just put like a little pipe and maybe a hat on there? Is that allowed? I don't know if props are allowed, but. So they did all this shit and they're looking for. The dogs were given pieces of clothing belonging to both the victim and the assailant and couldn't find it. They said passage of time in rainy weather made it difficult there. So they keep bringing these dogs. They're not finding anything. Wow. January 1993. A letter arrives to police. It's a hand drawn map transmitted by fax machine arriving at the police station in Wellfleet. Massachusetts. It depicted a cemetery in Wellfleet. It had been found in a pickup truck in Maryland that belonged to Haddon Clark. This is one of the things they found in his truck. The detective in Maryland sent it up there. Okay. He had spent summers in this. In this area at his grandparents house. Oysters, eating all sorts of shit. So on the map here in the area where his father and grandparents were buried in the cemetery, he drew an X. The Maryland detective asked the wealthy Fleet police if they could see whether anything seemed out of the ordinary in the vicinity of the X. Laura's body was not found there, though. They said they drove down the road in the cemetery, came to the grounds by some oak trees where the Clarks have their graves. They said it was cold, getting dark. Right in front of the grave marked Haddon Clark Sr. It was clear the earth had been disturbed. So they called the state police and they said there might be a body buried in this cemetery. To which they said, listen, let me tell you something, buddy. There's a lot of them. There's a few. The next day they arrived with a dog that had been trained to find cadavers. They said, we're in the cemetery. And the officer starts rubbing the dog. She says, you want to go to work?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that's a way to confuse them the fuck out of that poor thing.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, find it, find it. Find a fresher one. One that's not in a box.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Got anything newer? Buford?

[James Petragallo]

Well, they're also looking at. They're also sniffing that. Her belongings also, I think so. He said, go to work and find. The dog runs back and forth. Nobody points him in any direction and anything like that. But in about 30 seconds he's by the disturbed piece of ground and digging furiously.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petragallo]

So they call the police from Maryland. They arrive and they said, we get shovels and dig up the spot. And me and the Massachusetts State Police and the detectives from Maryland, and nothing's there. They said they dig a little more. Still nothing. He said, it's winter, it's cold, it's damp. We're standing around a hole in the ground looking at each other, shaking our heads. He said, I know now what happened. I know most of it happened anyway, but for eight years I didn't know anything. Okay, we'll get now in jail. This is before his trial is about to start. An inmate at the detention center where he's being held told police Clark had been sitting at a picnic table in the yard one day while people were playing volleyball. The ball rolled over to. Toward Him. They asked him to throw it back, but he didn't. He was sitting with his head in his hands and crying and saying, I shouldn't have killed her. I shouldn't have killed her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petragallo]

Not good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragallo]

So the day before the trial is set to start, he decides to plead guilty instead. So he pleads guilty to second degree murder of Laura and the sentencing is, you, sir, may fuck off. 30 years in prison, that's a long time for that. Okay, 30 years. Now, within days of his sentencing, his lawyers go to the prosecutors and said he's ready to tell you where the body is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He buried the body in Rockville, next to Bethesda, in woods near a highway exit ramp. So no, it wasn't there. He must have been doing that. He did something else there. Who knows?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That would have been absolutely bonkers crazy.

[James Petragallo]

If he buried a body on top of his dad. I mean, I know the mob would bury bodies under other bodies, but not on top of. That's crazy. So when he's in prison now, he's boasting of his many murders. He's telling inmates details about how he killed Michelle Dorr, Laura and others. Now obviously they're not real big fans of child killers in prison here. And also if you inform on a guy, you can get early parole. So you mix all that together. There's a guy named Lou Luciano. Hey, Louie. He's a former Baltimore based FBI agent and he's done a lot of murder for hire cases. Armed car robberies, kidnappings, homicides. But he said this case was different. When he's in prison, Haddon hung meat from his cell ceiling to let it rot. Drew coloring book like caricatures of his victims, and believed his white bearded. His white bearded cellmate was Jesus. Actual Jesus. And we'll talk about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You have a cellmate and you're hanging meat in here.

[James Petragallo]

Yes, it's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petragallo]

And he's so crazy, no one does anything. This Luciano guy said you're dealing with multiple personalities. A guy eating moldy pork patties. He's a killer. He's a soulless individual. Behind those eyes, there is nothing. And he was the guy holding the cards because he had a pretty good idea where the bodies were. This guy conducted hours long interrogations with Haddon, who attributed his murders not to himself, but to a Persona he has named Kristen E. Bluefin. That's my alter ego. Who I kill people. That's who kills people. Not me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's Kristen from my mother.

[James Petragallo]

From my mother who called him Kristen isn't that fucked up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn.

[James Petragallo]

I'm surprised his middle name isn't Retard. Yeah, Kristen Retard. Bluefin. So he said this. Luciano said there'd be times when we spent seven, eight, nine hours with him. And he's talking about his alter egos. He's showing us his drawings. He's talking about people he killed. He's giving information up. Some of it we could corroborate and knew about. Some of it we knew. Some of it he was playing us. So he said that he signed his name Kristen and claimed that Kristin was a mean bitch. Ate raw flesh and loved hiding stuff. That mean bitch, that Kristen. As Haddon started to demonstrate that his more forceful personality and more prolific personality was this woman, he began to become her more in the moment. He would shift back and forth. I think Kristen was probably his wall or his shield. Yeah, yeah. The drawings. Okay. I'll show you all of them at the end, or most of them, but I'm going to show you one here that's pretty creepy. He said his drawings are mostly women in landscapes, maps. They almost look like postcards. Wish you were here so I could kill you. He said, I'm featured in some of it, but it's always wide eyed girls with blue eyes. And it is. Here is one of them. Oh, my God. I don't like fucking that at all. No. Are they the creepiest? They're so innocent and so fucking creepy because they're so innocent. They're really similar to the BTK drawings.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

And we'll talk about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very, very childlike, childlike quality of drawing.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, the way he does his. Just his lines look a lot like btk, though. That's how BTK would draw the slick ad people and do all that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't like the part that he gave them to.

[James Petragallo]

No. They have like a fucking bald part. Like a, like a 40s man part that's been parting on the side too long.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hitler Youth shit.

[James Petragallo]

So. Wow. During one of the interviews, Luciano asked him for a picture of Kristen and he handed over a drawing of a blonde woman with big blue eyes. Now it resembled FBI Special Agent Desiree Smith. The guy said when they brought it to her, they brought her in to help. Haddon gave her the picture and smiled and said, you're Kristen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragallo]

They were like, whoa. And after that, he really opened up because he's like, oh, you're here, you're here. Okay. September 23rd, 1998. They talked to him about Michelle Dorr. Okay. They bring him into an interrogation room. They let him sit by himself. He starts making a series of gestures and sometimes makes. And he also. That he says are American Sign Language, but they're not. He makes like. Yeah, he made up his own sign language and he sang a song in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Lyrics that never indicates guilt.

[James Petragallo]

Nope. Lyrics are as such. He's still working on me to make me what I ought to be Took him just a week to make the moon and the stars sun and the earth and Jupiter and Mars how loving and patient he must be he's still working on me There really ought to be a sign upon my heart don't judge her yet there's an unfinished part But I'll be perfect Just according to his plan Fashioned by the master's loving hand.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is a wild song.

[James Petragallo]

He's singing creepy Jesus songs in there, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Throwing her in there.

[James Petragallo]

The detectives come in the room and hang a poster sized photograph of Michelle on the wall.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragallo]

This is the one that's appeared in all the newspaper articles and everything. They said, do you know who she. She is? And he said, yep, yep. And now in one of his storage lockers, the police had found a collection of tools that a land that his landlord said that they stole from him. Now they showed him the pictures of the tools and asked if he could identify them. And he said, that's mine. I got that from my grandfather's workshop. That's mine. I got it when I was in high school. There was. There was an old vice that came out of my grandfather's shop up in Wellfleet. He used these tools to tune pianos. They showed him a collection of Chinese coins and he said, money? My coin collection.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

And they said, you speak Chinese? And he said, yep, yeah. They said, you speak Chinese? And he said, yeah. And he said, yup. Then they said, you speak Chinese? And he goes, yup, I speak German. No, no, no, that's not what we asked. They said, you speak Chinese? And then he took a big pause and he said, I don't speak Chinese, but I listen to Chinese music. I listen to a lot of different types of music. I listen to Chinese music. I listen to Mexican music too. Caribbean. I like Caribbean music too. Oh, great. Fuck are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is not going well.

[James Petragallo]

An hour goes by. They place a document several pages long in front of him with a warrant charging him with the murder. The other detectives asked if he wanted some coffee. He said he did. The guy went to get it. They knew Clark would talk to himself, so they wanted to see what he would Say he turned the pages of the warrant, read them all, stopped and went, oh, well, guess I'm fucked. He took the picture of Michelle from the wall and put it face down on the table. Then sat with his elbows on his knees and clasped his hands and said, oh, well. Going to court. As he slowly read through the pages, he rubbed his chin and he said, oh, well, I'm the Rockville Rocket. The Rockville Rocket. That's me. Then he said, this could be a bunch of bullshit to try to break me. He spread his elbows on the table, put his head down on the warrant with such force that they opened the door and asked him if he was all right. Whack. Like, bang. Then he calmly folded the warrant up, put it in his pocket, and sat there and waited for his coffee. Now, the Behavioral Science Unit here from the FBI, that's who these people are with. Obviously, Detective Tarney, who'd pursued him for years, said that the Maryland and Police took him to the FBI, the Mindhunter people, to see what the fuck's up. This is what the cops said. Quote, they took one look at him and told us, you've got your hands full. Never seen anyone like him before. They went to think about that. They went to fucking Holden. And he went, beats the shit out of me. That's a crazy one. Fuck off. I don't know. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. We shine dark or light into the darkness. We can't illuminate this one.

[James Petragallo]

Nope. So 1999, he's in court again. He's tried for stealing from that family that he stole tools from and shit. And he's found guilty and receives another. You, sir, may fuck off. 10 years in prison, consecutive. Then they try him for the Michelle Dorr murder, and he doesn't plead to this either. This is a. At the trial, his defense attorneys tried to point the finger at this girl's father, who's fucking guilty enough as it is. But several fellow inmates testify against him. Like, multiple inmates were like, oh, yeah, he tells us all about this shit. So during the trial, he would rock back and forth in his chair and sometimes break into songs about Jesus. Okay, he's found guilty, obviously.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Still working on me.

[James Petragallo]

Working on me. It's catchy. And he receives. You, sir, may fuck off again. 30 more years, consecutive to the other one. Okay, okay, now that's 60. But really 30, because it's consecutive. Yeah, but they're eligible for parole in 15, I think. So January 2000, I gotta hurry up here. We're running late. January 2000, he confesses to Jesus. Not at church or to a deity of any kind. He has a cellmate with a white beard that he thinks is Jesus. He literally thinks he's Jesus. His name is Jack Truitt. He's in on a 50 year sentence for murder. He's not Jesus. No, that's a news for you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not Jesus, or he rose and really took it out on Judas.

[James Petragallo]

He really fucked up, man. So this Jack Truitt, I'll just call him Jesus from now on. Jesus recalled the rancid smell coming from this man's cell. He said inside Haddon's locker, He had saved 15 cartons of milk. He said he would save them. It's hot. He just let them swell up. It was just rancid, man. I'd say to him, why do you do that? He told me, it reminds me of decaying bodies. When Haddon started confessing to Jack because he thought he was Jesus, Jack was like, this is from Luciano. Jack was like, man, this guy's talking about killing, gutting and cannibalizing little kids and cutting the throats of women. So Luciano said, Jack did this at great risk. Being locked up in a correctional institution. Calling the police can make a very bad entry to your health record while you'll be. While you're behind bars. But Jack picked up the phone and made that call. So they asked Jesus what. What Kristen is like. Have you met Kristen? He said, the whole demeanor to me changes when he's Kristen. When you talk to Haddon, sometimes he'll bow his head and talk with his eyes closed and constantly fiddle with his watch. He's kind of slow and a little retarded. Everybody notices Kristen is smart and evil. That's what's weird when he switches personalities. He's 30 fucking points higher. IQ, that's what's fucked up. It's weird. You can see there's nothing behind the eyes with Kristen. It's unnerving. I can easily visualize him in a car, dressed in women's clothes with a butcher knife, riding the roads, looking for a victim. So during this here. Wow. They talk about a second female personality emerges. Now, Kristen's daughter, Nicole.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragallo]

The Jesus said, quote, she is, I'm estimating about 14 or 15. She's a pretty evil, pretty nasty person. A smart little kid with an attitude. She was mad because she felt the police were disrespecting her mother. When she'd stop and go to the bathroom, they'd take her to the men's bathroom and she'd get mad on the way to Wellfleet. He got into a dispute with the detective and tried to bite him. Him. This is Cadden. The detective said Clark goes through these tirades. The night before we went to find Michel Dorr, he didn't eat, got lethargic, and he just got comatose on everybody. It's just like an exorcism he goes through. This is what Jesus said here. The tirades are a result of a conflict between Haddon and Kristen. They're fighting inside.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh. That's why internally, there's a battle in there.

[James Petragallo]

Jesus said when we. That's a great thing to say. Jesus said, quote, when we went to get Michelle Dorr, Haddon's in the holding area and he won't talk to us. He's down on his knees, beating his head against the wall and talking in a crazy language. He was in turmoil. We didn't know it, but the problem was that Kristen told him not to tell anyone where Michelle was buried. So Clark began telling the detectives he wanted to die. He thought that it was a good day to die. So this guy, the detective said he held Clark's head in his lap for 20 miles. In the car. He laid on his lap like a child. Then Clark tried to scratch him out of nowhere. He said it was like a cat. It's like a sketchy cat. Like I was scratching and biting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Fuck. I pet him three times. He bit me like the first two. The next day, the detective said he rode from jail with a couple FBI agents and he tried that stuff, and they tuned him up real cute. We brought him back, and he's sporting this big black eye. The FBI just kicked the shit out of him. They didn't care. Like, you bite me, I'll beat your ass back here. So Clark and Jesus and the detectives went with several. That was the thing he said, too, I won't do it unless Jesus can come. I'll show you where the body is, if Jesus can come. So then this other murderer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Poor fucking guy.

[James Petragallo]

This murderer has to go on this trip. Yeah. Wow. So they said that Clark changed at the station. He said he wouldn't do it. He had to be dressed in women's clothes with Jesus next to him, then he'd do it. So he said Clark changed at the station. A red wig, gray cotton blouse, sort of a pullover. Tan skirt with a pattern. I'm tempted to use the term paisley, but I think I'm wrong. That's from a detective who doesn't know anything about women's clothing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Paisley's the design on bandanas, sir. You can say paisley.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, fuck it all up. Or those 90s ties.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

He told the detective he'd placed an old box spring over her, then covered her with dirt. The dogs worked for several hours without finding anything. One of the dog handlers took Clark aside and said to clear his head from all the people standing around. Being a distraction, he said. He was about 10 or 20ft from me talking to the dog handler about what time of day it had been when he buried Michelle and where the sun had been. I looked down and saw a wire sticking up and started pulling it. It looked to be about the size of a child's bed. I said, haddon, is this it? He came over, looked around at the trees and landmarks. Then he got down on his knees and started pawing at the ground like a dog.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. So that's where she was. They found her there. Now, Jesus told the cops that if he wanted to discuss Clark's crimes, he had to address him as Kristin. And this guy said. When Clark finally called me, this person's talking, saying, hello, is this Haddon or Kristen? He said, who do you want? I can get them for you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll put them on.

[James Petragallo]

Well, I have some questions for Kristen. Is she around? And he paused and said, this is Kristen. What do you want?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragallo]

I asked Clark if you would describe what happened to Sarah Pryor. He said, okay, that's the little girl we know. Nine year old. Okay. That was 85 in the fall, an Indian summer kind of day. I was on my way to the area from Maryland to see my father. He lived in Sudbury, the town next door. My father was seeing another woman then. I think my mom and dad were divorced at the time. I just got out of the military. Things weren't going so good for me. I got to the house and he wasn't there. I had plans to help him move some things. I drove all the way to help him move some stuff, and he didn't show up. It's canceled. Big deal. But it's very frustrating to drive all that way and it's canceled. I was on my way home. I forget what route I came through. Wayland. I asked this girl about directions. I was acting like I was lost. I already felt I was going to kill something. I don't know what makes me feel that way. I know I have a problem. If I'm doing these things, I must have a problem. But no one gives me any help. Something makes me mad, and I take my anger out on anything you get in my way. It's like a tornado. So I sort of lured her into the car, pulled her in, took her to a field. One thing led to another. I told her. I told her I wanted her mom, not her. And she didn't tell me where she was. I left her in the field, then covered up and went to, like, one of those stores to get plastic bags. I came back, put her in the bags. It was late in the afternoon. The only thing I left behind was her head. I dropped it just like I dropped the pillowcase in Maryland by mistake. He dropped. He just lost a head. I headed back to Maryland. I knew the rest area where I could pull over and hide it and get back and get it. When I came back up, I think it was Rhode Island. I sort of buried it, put stuff around it so no animal can get to it. Rocks. It wasn't a permanent grave site. I had already planned on going to Wellfleet to bury her at my grandfather's place. I wasn't worried about anybody finding her before I got back. I never had anybody find anything I didn't want them to find.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is so much information. He didn't.

[James Petragallo]

So fucked up, he knows it. In 1997, a piece of bone small enough to fit in the palm of a hand turned up in a field in the town of Wayland. The fragment turned out to be a piece of Sarah Pryor's skull. And those are the only remains of her that have ever been found, is one bone fragment from her skull.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God. That's so fucked.

[James Petragallo]

That's so fucked, man. So, yes, he takes them all around trying to find different things. Then they talk about other murders besides those two little girls that he killed and everything else. One is a woman he said he met in Vermont in 1975 or 6 and drove to Wellfleet and killed her and buried her on his grandfather's property. Her body was not found. He also says he killed a woman who's buried in Provincetown Cemetery under a marker that says, unidentified female Body found. Race Point Dunes, 7-26-74. He said that's his. Yes, that's. Well, that's what she's. That's her marker.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, okay.

[James Petragallo]

Because they found her in the dunes and somebody buried her. In the newspaper story, she's referred to as the lady in the Dunes. He said. In 1974, I was vacationing on Cape Cod at my grandfather's and I went into one of my episodes. I was in Provincetown and I came across beautiful girl. I lured her into the Dunes. I smacked her in the head with one of my surf casting poles. And then after she was unconscious, I had killed her, removed all her clothes, folded them neatly, put them under her body. And I did some things with her body. I folded up her clothes real nicely and I cut off her hands and stuffed her arms into the sand like she was doing push ups. Then I took her. Wow. Then I took her hands and put them in her purse like a beach bag. I cut off a couple of her fingers and used them for fishing bait. I buried her hands in a different place. I didn't bury her because I was making a statement. I don't know why I was doing it. Maybe if you were a trained psychologist, you could tell me. I wanted her to be found.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I want answers if you give them to me.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. That is fucking crazy. So Jesus has gone to all these places and everything? Yeah. So December 15, 2000, shortly before Christmas, he tells Jesus what he had buried in the Wellfleet Cemetery and drawn and that that had drawn the cadaver dogs was the body of a little girl named Sarah. He also drew a map of some woods in Silver Spring where he said he had buried Michel Dorr, which is where they found it. Jesus told his wife what Clark has said. And she called a state trooper she knew. And that's how this whole fucking happened. They end up digging up. They go to this grave site. There they dig up a bucket that he described to Jesus. It was two feet below ground. Attached to it was a shred of plastic which it had torn loose from a plastic bag. The bucket contained 230 pieces of jewelry. Valuable bracelets, earrings, little bead chokers strung on rubber bands like kids wear. One of the items was a brooch with a winged female figure reclining against a blanket.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It.

[James Petragallo]

Television reporters called it the angel of Death. He said he wore that when he killed someone. That was his killing brooch. He said someone else must have given it that name, because he sure didn't. But he said the brooch belonged to a girl named Debbie whose car broke down in Pennsylvania during the 70s. He gave her a ride and she kept asking to drive his car. And he got annoyed, so he killed her and buried her. Also in a bucket were a ring and a watch that Penny later recognized as having belonged to her daughter. 200 pieces of women's jewelry. Dude, he stole this. This is all of his trophies. These are his trophies. Wow. He claimed they all came from victims near the. That's crazy. So 2000s, they find the bathing suit that Michel Doerr was wearing in a wooded area near a playground. With the help of. Of Haddon and Jesus. He's currently serving two consecutive prison terms at the Eastern State Correctional Facility in Maryland. However, you know, Luciano says, if you're comfortable with this guy living in your basement or renting a room from you, then you put him on parole. Because I don't know if he's getting parole. No. In prison, he occupies himself by reading the Bible. He's often given to attributing quotations to it that aren't there. This is great. He will say, like it says in the Bible. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. That part's not in the Bible, like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It says in the Bible. Fuck around and find out, you know?

[James Petragallo]

You know what I'm saying? As it says in the Bible, a penny saves, a penny earned. I mean, that's just how it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cliches and made up. Cliches and a trivia.

[James Petragallo]

He said at one point, like father, like son. You ever read the Bible?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, they just misdiagnosed him. The man's not retarded. He's just dangerous.

[James Petragallo]

He's just insane. He's fucking insane. He plays chess by correspondence with people whose names he gets from chess magazines. What? Plays with other prisoners, too. And he says if he feels they're cheating, he cheats, too. Michael Bay made a documentary about him, that Michael Bay, which is incredible because there's that whole story. Almost three hours. Did you hear one explosion? No Transformers, man. No explosions at all. Called Born Evil. It's on Max. Oh, man. There's also a guy named John F. George, wrote a book called Knowing My Correspondence with the Cross Dressing Cannibal that is available in paperback only on Amazon. There is also Born the True Story of Cannibalism and Serial Murder that is available on. That's by Adrian Havel. That's some good information from this story came from that. Got to give that credit. There's that, I guess. Havel interviewed and corresponded with Haddon Clark more than a dozen times for the account. The only names they change out of anything are Jeffrey Clark's kids, because who cares? And then there's his art. Okay, Jimmy, let's look at some of his art. First of all, you can buy one of his letters@serior killersinc.net for $30.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Could probably write to him and he'll write the fuck back.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah, he needs. Look, here's the one you saw. That's creepy. Here's another creepy one that's really good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

On the coffee cup. That Person's face is fucked.

[James Petragallo]

Is so fucked. Look at the nose.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The fuck. Yeah, the face is. The nose is a ball bag.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's like Peter Griffin's chin. It's like. And he writes things on him. He writes coffee. Like, it's almost like an ad for coffee. And it says, circle the s. Hands over and under each other several times. And he has, like people doing sign language in all of these. Here is dog. It's a little girl. There are. It's always little girls. Pigs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got an amazing rendition of one of the fucking Dalmatians. That's beautiful.

[James Petragallo]

And it says, pat the side of the leg, then snap the fingers. I guess that's how you. That's how you make a dog do stuff. And it's a very nice. It looks like a Disney dog.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's a Dalmatian.

[James Petragallo]

Very Disney ish here. This one. It's a picture of actual someone with a cat. A woman with a cat. And it says, love cat. And it has another drawing here, and it says, Reagan Revord. Love cats. Reward.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He writes like Stevie.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Catfish. Love frogs. Marijuana. There's a weed leaf. And like making a smoking gesture with this little girl. And it says, using the F hand. Make the motion as if you are smoking a marijuana joint. That's the sign language for that. In his mind library. The right hand. The right L hand is a circle. That's library. These. Look at how creepy they are. That looks a lot like Laura, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They. All their eyes are either too far apart or crooked.

[James Petragallo]

Look at. Look at the same girl he draws. Yeah, that's Michelle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ball, bag, nose.

[James Petragallo]

That's Michelle that he's drawing. And that is Laura. Because if you see a picture of Laura, it just looks like her. Here's another one. Circle the A hand toward the body alternately several times. TV and acting. My favorite actor is Clint Eastwood, but I have plenty of actresses I really like. Demi Moore, Michael Learned, Mary Beth McDonough, and quite a few others. That's what he writes. Quite a few. Home. And it says Los Angeles up there. That's for Reagan. Revers home is in Los Angeles. And what's this?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right? Who is Reagan revered?

[James Petragallo]

Must have been the chick with the cat. Onion. Onions make some people cry. And it's that same little girl with tears coming down her face there. Then there's a picture of Garfield that just looks traced.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't. Yeah, he didn't draw it. He just colored it.

[James Petragallo]

That looks like a coloring book picture. It's Garfield on a skateboard with a backwards hat. I don't get that. Then there's a frog here again that looks like a colored frog, but it sits on top of her head for some reason. Candy, he's got M&M's. Like a Photoshopped M&M's on there. Lightning. It's got that money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Always the same.

[James Petragallo]

Yep, the girl's exactly the same. How is new money?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Look at that. That's the new bills.

[James Petragallo]

Those are new bills. There you go, everybody. That is Haddon Clark. And like I said, top 10 crazy in the history of this show. Obviously. This guy is fucking nuts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the world.

[James Petragallo]

And the world. Yeah, I'm sure there's crazier people, but I haven't heard of them. So we will get through the end of this very quickly here. Definitely. Shut up and give me murdered dot com. Get your tickets for live shows. The 419. It's on 4 19, Saturday night, April 19th. The 420 virtual live show. Crazy story. Just like a live show, but in your living room or wherever the hell else you want to watch it. Anywhere with WI Fi. Jimmy's going to get super stoned. I got all sorts of crazy shit to mess them all up there. Do that. Also tickets for live shows. St. Louis, Chicago, you're up next. Early May, I think it's the 6th and 7th. Get your asses in there and come see us there. It's going to be great. Chicago, the Riviera. Some tickets available there. St. Louis almost sold out. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Head over to where am I talking about? Social media. Well, that's next. We're Smalltown Murder on Instagram. Altownpod on Facebook. Facebook. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get all the whole bonus shit. Whole catalog of hundreds of them immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week, including this week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. And how much do they get?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, you get all of it.

[James Petragallo]

Whole fucking thing here. So this week for crime and sports, we are going to talk about the Miami Dolphins bullying scandal again. I almost just said Dolphins bullying, which would be a nature show, not a sports show. And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about the Amazon Review killer, who's a sick fuck who kept people kept young ladies chained up inside shipping containers. It's crazy shit. Talk about him. Patreon.com CrimeanSports and you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right Now, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful fucking people who would never, ever do any of the shit that this guy did this week. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This week's executive producer, Angela Corey. Wow. Thank you so much. You're an angel. That was very, very kind of you. Wonderful job. And. And quit Patreon because of it. And then she came back to donate a giant amount of money that she didn't have to do.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you so much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank you. Gary Howard also. Thank you so much, son. That's getting bigger all the time. Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows. Happy Hour is in Lafitte, Louisiana. Thank you, Happy Hour. Happy to see you. Janice Hill. Sherry Lynn Henderson. Audrey.

[James Petragallo]

Every week with Janice Hill. We never say thank you. Janice Hill. I hear your name every week. Thank you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Constant. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Rock.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So nice.

[James Petragallo]

Jordan Bennett and Peyton Meadows. And yeah, thank you, Liz. Liz Vasco. Regulars. Thank you, guys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You do too much and you don't have to. We appreciate it.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sherilyn Henderson. Audrey Alan, Ricky Hargette. Hargett Taylor. Marcelino Goldino with no last name. Joshua.

[James Petragallo]

Sounds like that magician. The great Goldino.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great Goldino, yes. He. He makes pizzas. Jace Chancellor. Kin. Is that Kayla? It is. Kaylin Soros. Chris Bourne. That is Jason's brother, right? Abel Martinez, right? Is it Jason Bourne? Yeah. Sandals with no last name.

[James Petragallo]

Rebecca.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You didn't. You didn't watch those movies?

[James Petragallo]

Me, I don't like action shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, I understand pop culture references. Ashley Young. Holly Stansberry. Dakota Jenkins. Stephanie Deese. Abby Bowden. Bowden, maybe. Cameron Craft. Lisa Stelter. Yes. Hayden Smith. Samantha with no Last name. Sam O'Connor. Elizabeth Jacobs. April C. Sam Coleman. Derek Schwab. Tiffany West. Bob Soa. Jody Moore. Alexandra Leclaire. Carrie Fowler. James Wilkinson. Naomi with no last name. Ash Egan Burke. Daniel Hardesty. Allison Rainford. Justin Johnson. Shane McDowell. Sludge monkey. Gross. Amanda Smith.

[James Petragallo]

Nasty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A sludge monkey Sounds like a poop dick. That's fine. Anita Falk. Joe Bryant. Kathleen Schmidt. Alyssa Wilson. Lola Brown. Michelle Wood. Jessica Jones. Robin Noguchi. Elliot Worm. Zach Duffy, Matt Harris, Doug Rose. Bruce with no last name. Wake Waukee. Oh, that's gonna be a miss. That's gonna be a correct autocorrect.

[James Petragallo]

An autocorrect?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Wake is not the first name. It's something else. Ag. Benya, though. Is your last name Laura?

[James Petragallo]

Joe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tiffany Osborne. Laura with no last name. Montromancer. Montroman, sir. Bradley Germain. Maybe German. Maybe German, we don't know. Sophie Hull. Jennica Angus. She signed up twice. Thank you. Jenna. Tommy with no last name. Danielle with no last name. Whiskey with no last name. Cassandra. Hegabo. Bad news. Bad new. James Mahaff. Mahaffey. Christina Brennan. Madison Parker. Missy Johnson. Nancy with no last name. Luis Block. Lois. No, if it's Louise. Cassie Wornley. Wornley. Staff Magot. Mago. Staff Mago. I don't know. I don't know what you want me to say. Rebecca Reifschner. Gochi, I think. Julie Sand. Chaz. Reba Talbot. Tara with no last name. Laura Berg. Kaya. Kaya Stroh. Stroh, like the beer. Kachina. Cameron Jacobson. She's got Stroh's money. Teresa. Not a stat.

[James Petragallo]

Old timey beer money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not a lot of money there. It's like a $90 for like a 12 pack.

[James Petragallo]

Falstaff Person is going to be here bringing that old money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maddie Osborne. Olivia Bernal. Nicola Nicola Sundin. Inhabit jewelry. Christine M. Lindsey Straighten. Kate. Cheatwood. Virginia Babo Babu. Wendy. Wendy Fried. Friedland. Rachel. Nope. Yeah, that's Rachel Rose. Roach. Perhaps. Roachy. Feeling funny. Erica S. Gretchen Hagen. Book Hagen. Booch Hagen. Booch. Crystal Howell. Corey Frankenhauser. Frankenhauser. Trey DeWitt. Brittany McNat. Jacqueline McGinnis. Green, Lynn and Caroline. Carolina Hammers. Joey Jenkins. Dave and Jade Boharnois. What the fuck?

[James Petragallo]

You broke him. You broke Jimmy with this last name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tucker Basso. Tyler Harrison. Jesse Robbins. Mitchie Bags. Mike Holland. James Fleming. Jimmy is adorable. Ken Morris. I'm disgusting. Jeremy Regan, Regan, Regan, Reagan. Maria Noel, Peter Cerny. Doc with no last name. Wyatt Gray. How about that? Doc and Wyatt donated.

[James Petragallo]

All together, back to back, same time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fascinating. Andrew Hillis. Eric Enos. Cat. Kathy with no last name. Pookie with no last name. Ricky. Lindsay. Shelly with no last name. Christopher Clark. Sven Sfern. Sphere. Sver. Kern. Sveri. I don't know. Maria Paolella. Paola. That's.

[James Petragallo]

That's power.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's a Monica. Monica Rola. Ella. Alex with no last name. Tammy with no last name. Rain with no last name. And Elizabeth with no last name. And then obviously, obviously every other person that's a patron. You guys are the best. Thank you so much.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you so much, everybody, for all that you do for us. For everything you do week after week. Keep coming back and seeing us. Tell your friends. Tell everybody about it and keep coming back. Like you said. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me murder dot com. Drop down menus. Take anywhere you want to be. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey it takes one guy out there to say, who's that? Kyle who thinks he can just get on a microphone on a podcast and start publicizing this. From I Heart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Comes a new true crime podcast, Crook County.

[James Petragallo]

I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Meet Kenny, an enforcer for the legendary Chicago Chicago outfit. And that was my mission, to snuff the life out of this guy.

[James Petragallo]

He lived a secret double life as.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A firefighter paramedic for the Chicago Fire Department. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything. People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[James Petragallo]

Torn between two worlds.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm covering up murders that these cops are doing.

[James Petragallo]

He was a freaking crazy man. We don't know who he is really.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He is my father and I had no idea about any of this until now. Welcome to Crook County.

[James Petragallo]

Available now listen for free on the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.