Jimmy Wissman (3:21)

Oh, yes, for sure.

James Petregallo (3:22)

You're going to want to listen to Crime in Sports. Our other show, which we're doing an Evel Knievel series on right now. Don't have to like sports for that. You listen to your stupid opinions. But if you want more, you can get Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get immediately upon subscription, hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before. And then you get new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder, and you get it all. That's right. This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to Talk about the 2012 Miami Dolphins bullying scandal that they had, which is really weird. And some new information just came out about that. People are talking about it now. So we'll find out. For Small Town Murder, the Amazon review killer.

Jimmy Wissman (4:06)

Golly.

James Petregallo (4:06)

Which, yeah, that goes along with so much of what we do. Small Town Murder, your stupid opinions, all of it in there. We'll talk all about that and more. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. At the end of the regular show, Jimmy will mispronounce your name horribly while dying to get it correct. That's it. So that said, I think it's time, speaking of our credo, here is our credo. I think it's time everybody to sit back, clear the lungs. Let's all arms to the sky. Let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do it, everybody. Okay, let's go on a Trip. Shall we? We are going to Utah this week.

Jimmy Wissman (4:52)

What a place.

James Petregallo (4:53)

We're going. This place is really some kind of place. This is Lucin Utah. L U C I N and if people have never heard of it, it's because it's a ghost town at this point.

Jimmy Wissman (5:04)

Oh, really?

James Petregallo (5:05)

Yeah. Especially after what happened here. It's even more of a ghost town now, so.

Jimmy Wissman (5:09)

Right.

James Petregallo (5:10)

Yeah. We'll talk a little bit about it. Not a lot of stats, but a little bit of some weird shit here. It's in northwest Utah. Over. Out over there. About three hours to Salt Lake City. About three and a half hours to Pleasant Grove, Utah. Utah. Our last Utah episode, which was Dr. Serial Killer. That was a good one. This is in Box Elder County.

Jimmy Wissman (5:30)

Box Elder.

James Petregallo (5:31)

Box Elder. Two separate words. I don't know. Elder has something to do with Mormonism, I'm sure because they call each other Elder. I don't know. So a little bit of history. This town was founded in the late 1800s originally about 10 miles north of its current location. And it was only here to provide water. It's a water stop for railroads to replenish their steam locomotives. That's the only reason why it's here. Then in the 1903, the town moved. They moved it to its site now to serve as a stop for the loose and cutoff, which was another railway railroad thing there. The town's population consisted mainly of employees of the Central and Southern Pacific railroads back in the day. In 1936 the town was completely abandoned and then resettled by a group of four retired railroad workers and their children. They decided, we're going to start a town again here.

Jimmy Wissman (6:29)

We like it. We're not going to stop it.

James Petregallo (6:32)

They came back about 37. So the next year then there was people there until 1972. And then no one lived there anymore.

Jimmy Wissman (6:42)

Wild place.

James Petregallo (6:43)

Then in 1997, a guy named Ivo Zdarsky, who was an aviation engineer, entrepreneur and manufacturer of the Ivo prop, which is a plane propeller, he invented it, he bought it and moved there. He bought the airport. He bought like the whole town. Not the whole town, but like the airport and a bunch of land, basically. So he did that as of 2016, except for intermittent people stopping. People we're going to talk about in this show because they were there and all of that kind of thing. And Zdarsky, there really wasn't anybody there. Like it was just maybe five people. This Sdarsky lived alone in an airplane hangar. That's it. That's what he did. When they asked him why he moved to the desert. He said, quote, I escaped from Czechoslovakia, then I was in California and then I moved here.

Jimmy Wissman (7:37)

Okay, in broken English, I'm sure.

James Petregallo (7:40)

Yeah, it is too. It doesn't talk very much here.

Jimmy Wissman (7:43)

Why are you here? I escape.

James Petregallo (7:46)

And then now I hear he bought 400 acres for $99,000. That included.

Jimmy Wissman (7:52)

That's why he moved here.

James Petregallo (7:53)

Yeah, that included the Lucent airport as well.

Jimmy Wissman (7:56)

Yeah, I would too if I had a little bit of cash and no need to do anything. That's awesome.

James Petregallo (8:00)

Problem was the airport was just a Runway. It wasn't even. There wasn't even a building. There's no like Cinnabon in there or anything. None of that shit. It's just a Runway. That's it. So he made a hangar. He built the hangar. A 50 foot steel hangar, no windows, no anything like that. He just lives in a metal box in the middle of the desert.

Jimmy Wissman (8:19)

Winter's cold and summer's hot.

James Petregallo (8:21)

Absolutely. So he says some people drop by when they're exploring because they don't know, like, oh, someone lives here. What is this? He says you always run into people. And they said, well, how often is always out here? And he says if you define seeing people by seeing a car driving by, maybe once a week. So once a week he sees a car drive by and he. At least a car, he says, that's always seeing people. You always run into people.

Jimmy Wissman (8:49)

You know, every week there's a person.

James Petregallo (8:52)

As they fly by at 75 miles an hour. I consider that a relationship.

Jimmy Wissman (8:58)

I assume society is going because I.

James Petregallo (9:00)

Saw a car last week so wild. He said that the post office won't deliver there, but UPS and FedEx will deliver there. So he can get stamp delivered.

Jimmy Wissman (9:12)

Stamps are useless. You gotta.

James Petregallo (9:14)

He used to get delivery from the Schwan's food truck.

Jimmy Wissman (9:18)

Oh yeah.

James Petregallo (9:19)

Which makes those little frozen pizzas. Yeah, and they'd bring him prepared meals, but he canceled it. Cause he gained too much weight. He said he was gaining too much weight. Couldn't do it. He says he's got great Internet speed out there. He said, so I'm on Amazon ordering stuff and then UPS will bring it to me in the middle of nowhere.

Jimmy Wissman (9:36)

Wow, that's gotta be a driver's nightmare, seeing that address.

James Petregallo (9:41)

Amazing. Very quickly I have to talk about it. They call it there's an oasis in the desert. Because approaching there you see a. You said you can see a clump of lush green trees about three miles to the south and southwest. And apparently a small 4 inch pipe originating in the pilot Mountain range to the southwest supplies water there.

Jimmy Wissman (10:02)

Wow.

James Petregallo (10:03)

So there was ponds. There's ponds here too. There's the Lucent pond and everything else. So. Yeah. There's also some. Some telephone booths there.

Jimmy Wissman (10:13)

Really?

James Petregallo (10:14)

That are like old. Old abandoned telephone booths.

Jimmy Wissman (10:16)

Close the door and shit.

James Petregallo (10:17)

You can get land there. Jimmy. Look at the pictures of this land.

Jimmy Wissman (10:20)

Show me this. Oh, boy.

James Petregallo (10:22)

It is nothingness.

Jimmy Wissman (10:24)

That one's cool.

James Petregallo (10:25)

That's got a mountain in it. At least A good view you can get.

Jimmy Wissman (10:27)

The rest of it's just desert.

James Petregallo (10:30)

80 acres for $46,000. 80 acres, 80 acres, 500 bucks an acre, basically.

Jimmy Wissman (10:37)

Oh, my God.

James Petregallo (10:38)

10 acres, 10 grand. And then here's 1, 640 acres, 320 grand.

Jimmy Wissman (10:44)

That's unbelievable.

James Petregallo (10:46)

That is so cheap. There's nothing there, obviously. Speaking of that, how far to Salt Lake?

Jimmy Wissman (10:51)

Three hours.

James Petregallo (10:51)

Three hours?

Jimmy Wissman (10:52)

Okay.

James Petregallo (10:52)

Yeah. Not commutable at all. Things to do here. Well, not much, honestly. Popular stop for people that look for rocks. Rock people. Apparently there's an apple green chert, like phosphate, mineral varicite, that's in this area. Look for that.

Jimmy Wissman (11:14)

Apple green. There's no apples.

James Petregallo (11:16)

There's no apples.

Jimmy Wissman (11:16)

The color of the rock.

James Petregallo (11:18)

If you see that, it's not an apple. And there is a large artwork here that actually plays into our story a little bit here. It's mentioned, called the Sun Tunnels, which was created by an artist named Nancy Holt in 1976. Look at. It's just concrete tubes in the desert. Sun Tunnels. Look at this.

Jimmy Wissman (11:37)

Remember those things in school? Did they ever have those on your playground? They had those on our playground. They were buried. Half buried.

James Petregallo (11:42)

It's just like a big water pipe.

Jimmy Wissman (11:44)

There was a kid that ran into one of those and fucking capped herself. She peeled the top of her fucking head off.

James Petregallo (11:52)

They look like things that people would hide in from prison dogs that are chasing them. Except these are just out in the desert. They're not underwater.

Jimmy Wissman (11:59)

Or the cheap school district in the playground. Yeah, hiding those, you fuckers.

James Petregallo (12:04)

It is fucking wild, man. So that said, let's talk about a murder here. This is May 31, 2022, we're talking. So recently just happened 8:30am Here. Okay? A detective is called about a missing person reported in this area in the Lucent Utah area. So they have to drive all the way the fuck out here. There's no police station in Lucent, so.

Jimmy Wissman (12:31)

Police station shows up.

James Petregallo (12:33)

I believe it's the county, the Box Elder County Sheriffs or whatever. So the Box Elder County Search and Rescue had already responded to the area and they were requesting police assistance. So this detective arrived and, you know, talked to some people and found out who was missing and what was going on here. And found out that it is a 19 year old young man who's missing named Dylan Rounds. He's 19 years old and he's got a weird story. He seems like a kind of a cool kid. He's from Rigby, Idaho originally. And at this point in 2022, he's living by himself in a camp trailer where he farms grain out there.

Jimmy Wissman (13:16)

How old is he?

James Petregallo (13:17)

19.

Jimmy Wissman (13:17)

19.

James Petregallo (13:18)

19. It's his dream to have a farm in the middle of nowhere where he makes grain or grows grain.

Jimmy Wissman (13:25)

Tough kid.

James Petregallo (13:26)

Yeah, that's what I mean. That's an interesting dream for. And he owns land. Like he and his father and grandfather chipped in and bought this piece of land so he could like farm it and all this type of thing. It's pretty interesting, honestly. His mother said Dylan was out building his life. His lifelong dream was to have his own farm. He spent the last two summers ripping out and redeveloping that ground on his own. He got his water rights, he did everything. And this year, his grain was finally coming up. He finally got a crop. He got his pivot up. It was a fully functional farm. Okay, so cranking Dylan, doing great. Now he's missing, not good. Yeah. I mean, it seems like he could have just wandered off, but you could see people for like eight miles in every direction. You're not going to miss it.

Jimmy Wissman (14:14)

That's whole land. If you got 680 acres.

James Petregallo (14:16)

Yeah, I can see it all. So apparently the original. This is the cop gets here, the detective, he gets filled in and he's told that Dylan spoke with his grandmother on the phone on the morning of May 28, this day that they were called out here. And he was told that he told his grandmother he's going to be parking his seed truck. He was on the phone with her. He said, oh no, it started raining, so he had to take his truck to park it in the, in the, like the, in a shelter, in a shed, basically a grain shed where he kept his shit there. Okay. Which is a couple miles away on this area. So he's got to go park it there. So he said he had to stop working and go do that on the property. Now the shed is where a guy is squatting, by the way. There's a guy named James Brenner who squats in the shed and like, oh man, he's got an interesting story. He needed to come out here because he was not doing well in regular society. Yeah, too many people.

Jimmy Wissman (15:22)

Not good for him.

James Petregallo (15:22)

Hey, this guy shouldn't be around many people here. So I guess then he said, I'm gonna go put the truck away and then I'll call you back is what he said. So that's on his cell phone here. But he never called back. And then nobody could get in contact with him in any way. So people came out to look for him. He wasn't there. They called the cops. And this is what happens now. So this detective was told by the police station here that Dylan's phone had been pinged and the last location was returned to a little over a 15 mile radius because there's not a lot of cell towers out there.

Jimmy Wissman (16:00)

Holy shit.

James Petregallo (16:01)

If you're in a big radius, if you're in a concentrated area, there's cell towers everywhere. They can coordinate it more. But if you're out there, where there's one cell tower anywhere in this service.

Jimmy Wissman (16:11)

Is 15, 15 miles.

James Petregallo (16:13)

That's it. So they, so they were trying to figure it out, the distance of the radius. They were like there was no direction in which to search. A 15 mile radius is huge.

Jimmy Wissman (16:23)

Yeah. Pick a spot, go 15 miles away from it, and then do a circle.

James Petregallo (16:27)

That's crazy.

Jimmy Wissman (16:28)

It's so big.

James Petregallo (16:29)

It's so big. It's such a big area. So it's not a good. If you have like three cops, it's gonna take you a month to search a 15 mile radius for sure. It's gonna take forever. So they can't really do that. So they said there was a shelter on a section of land owned by Box Elder Land and Livestock that was adjacent to this property here. I guess. So Dylan is doing all this. I guess this James Brenner was using the storage shed to sleep in, hang out in and to store stuff. Both of them lived in off the grid trailers. I guess he had a little trailer too. James Brenner, but he was also sleeping in the shed. Sometimes for some reason, doesn't make any sense. So this guy doesn't make a lot of sense. James Adrian Brenner, who is 58 at the time, in 2022. So way different than Dylan. I mean totally three generations away.

Jimmy Wissman (17:23)

He's just starting and like this is a 19 year old's lifestyle, not a 58 year old's lifestyle.

James Petregallo (17:29)

Yeah, to me this is like a 41 year old's lifestyle for me.

Jimmy Wissman (17:34)

Look, I'm. I'll be 44 in a second.

James Petregallo (17:36)

A 19 year old.

Jimmy Wissman (17:37)

I can't do this for more than two days.

James Petregallo (17:39)

No, no, no. But a 19 year old running his own farm seems odd.

Jimmy Wissman (17:43)

Also that part's nuts.

James Petregallo (17:45)

But it's weird.

Jimmy Wissman (17:46)

Small operation, so bad.

James Petregallo (17:49)

Now this Brenner is a considered a family friend of the rounds is here. They know him. He's considered just a guy of the area. Yeah, one of those guys. He's got a decent little criminal record on him. Sure, he's got a record that includes malicious wounding, malicious shooting, multiple convictions of being a felon in possession of a firearm. He had a shooting charge from 1986 and at another separate occasion he was charged with and accused of beating a 70 year old man with an aluminum chair. He went full fucking WWE fucking extreme. He went full ECW on a 70 year old man when he was like 40. Worked him over with a chairman born.

Jimmy Wissman (18:38)

In the 60s like he was a teenager in the 70s. And he's gonna have some criminal shit.

James Petregallo (18:44)

But that's, this is.

Jimmy Wissman (18:45)

That's heavy.

James Petregallo (18:46)

A lot. I have the arrest report for his 1986 shooting arrest, okay? And it is real fucking interesting. First of all, it says no fixed address on there for him, which says a lot. So even as 1980 he was a drifter. It was that long ago back there. It was 510, 160. He is listed as under employment. Unemployed aluminum siding hanger.

Jimmy Wissman (19:13)

So I hang aluminum siding. Where? Well, not right now.

James Petregallo (19:16)

Well, not currently. I've hanged aluminum siding. Say how's that?

Jimmy Wissman (19:23)

And if more pops up, I'll hang it.

James Petregallo (19:25)

I will hang it again. So this took place at a 711 store. All right. Which makes the whole thing way trashier immediately. So it says. The above defendant was arrested after he was involved in a shooting at the Costa Regional park at approximately 1750 hours. The defendant was sitting in his truck at campsite number four. I guess it's near a 711 at Costco Regional Park. He was visited by Mr. Danny Weir and Mr. Michael Spro, who had stopped to discuss a new job offer for him. Hey, there we go. Get some siding up. The defendant had been laid off earlier in the day by Mr. Weir. Okay, now they're back.

Jimmy Wissman (20:04)

He was laid off. We've got work for you.

James Petregallo (20:06)

And now we're back with work. The defendant allegedly uncovered a handgun from under a blanket in the truck and reached for the gun. As he did, Mr. Weir reached for his arm, meaning this guy's arm. Mr. Weir stated that as he reached for the defendant's arm to push the gun away from his chest area, the two struggled. The gun Discharged and the bullet shot him in the thigh. In the right thigh, God damn it. The bullet then passed through his right. The right calf of Michael Sproul, who was standing behind him.

Jimmy Wissman (20:38)

Shot two guys, one bullet, who were.

James Petregallo (20:40)

Trying to fucking get him a new job.

Jimmy Wissman (20:42)

Yeah.

James Petregallo (20:43)

He then stated to Mr. Weir, quote, I'm going to kill you, you motherfucker. You cost me my job. As the two struggled for the gun, the defendant attempt to cock the gun for another shot. Holy shit. At this time, Mr. Weir was able to gain control of the gun and give it to Dwight Castaboarder. The defendant then ordered his dog, a German shepherd, to attack Mr. Weir, which it did. That's a good puppy. Mr. Weir received several bites to the leg and numerous scratches to his chest hair. What a bad day. With the help of witnesses at the scene, Mr. Weir got the defendant off of him. At the time, the defendant approached Mr. Castaboarder and demanded his gun back. When he did not receive it, he fled in his truck. A lookout was issued by Officer Wright to all area police agencies. The defendant was stopped at the 7:11. That's where that comes in. This is in Maryland by Prince George's County. He was transported to Clinton Station, blah blah, blah blah blah. The defendant was processed and interviewed. He stated that he did not remember any of the incident and that he did not own a gun. I don't know what you're talking about.

Jimmy Wissman (21:53)

Search me. I don't have a gun. I don't know what you're talking about.

James Petregallo (21:56)

The gun described as a.44 caliber Ruger, 6 inch barrel. Shot him with a fucking Dirty Harry gun, for Christ's sake. Holy shit.

Jimmy Wissman (22:06)

Wider. Peacekeeped his thigh.

James Petregallo (22:08)

Yeah. Revolver, black powder model.

Jimmy Wissman (22:11)

Yeah.

James Petregallo (22:12)

Holy shit.

Jimmy Wissman (22:13)

That's a real ask gun, man.

James Petregallo (22:15)

Wow. This is fucking crazy. Then later on he stated that he does keep the weapon in his truck. He admitted to it in a box. Wow.

Jimmy Wissman (22:25)

Has like a seal on it that says Peacekeeper.

James Petregallo (22:28)

The peacekeeper with a picture of a mustache on it. Fucking crazy big mustache. So in 2012 he served two and a half years in federal prison after a conviction for being a felon in possession of a firearm, another gun. And that happened all the time from the 80s on. So this guy is a fucking trip. He's a party.

Jimmy Wissman (22:52)

He lives in the wind, on the land. He needs a weapon for nature, he does. The cops don't want him to have it.

James Petregallo (22:59)

No, he needs to not have a gun for any nature or anything else. So now there's a little background here. Apparently Dylan James Brenner and a guy named Don Hateley, who is a next door neighbor to this whole event. He has the property next door. He works the property next door. I'm not sure of the ownership status. They were in Idaho approximately June 20, 2020. So two years earlier, related to the purchase of several hundred pigs. Now, people involved in the deal with the pigs were Brenner, Dillon, Ed Harshberger, and a guy named Larry. So Jim, Dillon, Ed and Larry are going to go in on some pigs here. Larry explained that the pigs were part of a venture where Dylan was attempting to make a profit from the slaughter of pigs purchased from the Midwest during the COVID epidemic. So that's what he's doing. The pigs were purchased for pennies on the dollar. The deal resulted in approximately 500 pigs being delivered to Larry's property in Idaho, with an eventual plan to move the pigs to Lucen, Utah. Now, initially, Larry estimated there were only to receive approximately 100 pigs. However, 500 were initially were eventually delivered. That's way more pigs.

Jimmy Wissman (24:12)

That's so many pigs.

James Petregallo (24:13)

I went to a place, they gave me an extra pizza, and they were like, oh, we made an extra one. You can keep it. That's fine. 400 extra pigs. I'd be like, I don't have what?

Jimmy Wissman (24:22)

We accidentally made 400 pizzas. James, please.

James Petregallo (24:25)

Yeah, we accidentally made 399 extra pizzas. I don't know if you want these or not. So hungry. Moving the pigs from Idaho to Utah required approval. Required approval by a vet in Idaho. Larry indicated that the veterinary clinic was upset with the number of pigs requiring approval. Yeah, they didn't want to look at them all.

Jimmy Wissman (24:44)

Yeah, I'd be upset. That's gonna take us so long.

James Petregallo (24:46)

You said 100. This is way more than that.

Jimmy Wissman (24:49)

This is five times the worst.

James Petregallo (24:50)

Holy shit. It was at this vet clinic where Dylan was seeking approval to move the pigs, where the initial altercation between Brennan or Brenner, James Brenner, and Justin, who is Justin, is Dylan's father. Justin shouldn't be anybody's father. No one's father should be named Justin, number one. It just doesn't work. It's weird.

Jimmy Wissman (25:07)

It's bizarre that there are people named Justin that are old enough to have kids.

James Petregallo (25:11)

Yeah, that's just straight. Someday there's gonna be Grandpa Justin. We can' it's just weird. We're going to grandpa Justin's. Is a strange thing.

Jimmy Wissman (25:20)

There's a professional football player named Aiden right now, and it drives me nuts every time they say it's.

James Petregallo (25:25)

I bet. Yeah, you sound like a tiny white child. Why are you in the NFL with like. Like, a hemophiliac with all sorts of allergies?

Jimmy Wissman (25:34)

You should be sick somewhere.

James Petregallo (25:36)

Yeah. You should be, like, staying away from pets because they make you break out in hives.

Jimmy Wissman (25:40)

He's like, one of the best players on the Lions, too. And every time they say his name, I'm like, no, just call him by his last name.

James Petregallo (25:46)

I can't do. I can't deal with it. So Dylan's father and Brenner got in an argument here. At the time of this incident, Justin mistakenly believed that James Brenner was Harshberger, a totally different guy. He had him confused. That's why they were arguing. Justin was angry with Harshberger, believing that Harshberger was responsible for Dillon having an interest in farming in the Lucent area, which they didn't want him to do. Justin angrily confronted Brenner at the veterinary clinic and told Brenner to get off Larry's property where the pigs were being kept. Despite Justin mistaking Brenner for Harshburger, Brenner told Justin to meet on the lane outside the property adjacent to the house of Larry's father. This was a residence where Brenner was staying while he was working with Dylan. Okay. Brenner arrived. Brenner, he's like, show up for a fucking throwdown, basically. So Brenner arrived at the lane with his six gun on his hip in his holster. That's from a police report.

Jimmy Wissman (26:44)

An actual revolver.

James Petregallo (26:46)

It's 2020. Fucking 2020 Covid is going on. This isn't the fucking Dodge City wandering.

Jimmy Wissman (26:52)

Up for a fucking shootout.

James Petregallo (26:54)

This is not Tombstone. This is crazy. Larry believed that Brenner retrieved his gun from Larry's father's house. Justin arrived at the lane. He apparently knew it was up. He showed up with an AR15, so he wasn't fucking around either.

Jimmy Wissman (27:06)

Oh, boy.

James Petregallo (27:07)

This is crazy. There's like, four people in the whole town hundreds of miles. Get away from each other. What are you doing?

Jimmy Wissman (27:12)

And they're all strapped and hate each other.

James Petregallo (27:14)

This is cr. So Larry somehow was able to de escalate this situation so that no one shot each other. I don't know how you de escalate this situation, but he did it. So Brenner and Justin were approximately 100ft apart and were pretty angry. Brenner was walking up the lane with his gun. Brenner was angry with Justin and told Larry that Brenner stated something to the effect of I hate that son of a bitch, which Larry described. Brenner as having a short temper, which it sounds like. While Brenner was on the lane waiting for Justin, Justin went to his house, got the AR15. Larry explained that Justin can get pretty loud when angry and was either pointing his finger at Brenner or had poked Brenner in the chest prior to. That's what caused the showdown. He poked him chest poked him. So we're showing up with our guns. Neither pointed their gun at the other. Larry believed that if either would have pointed their gun at the other, someone would have gotten shot. I think so too. Brenner relied on the good nature of Dylan and Larry for survival during the winter. Because during the winter it's harsh out there.

Jimmy Wissman (28:17)

Oh yeah.

James Petregallo (28:18)

I mean, kill you. Yeah. Larry pointed out that Dylan drove to Idaho from Lucin in order to collect firewood from Larry so that Brenner would be able to stay warm during the winter. So Dylan's doing him favors. Yeah. Rounds also believe that it's likely that Brenner's temper played a part in the disappearance of Dylan. That's what Justin said the dad and indicated that if Brenner were to provide information of the location of Dylan's body, Larry would be interested in Brenner receiving a break in any potential charge or sentence. So they already have him. He did it and he took him somewhere and did something.

Jimmy Wissman (28:52)

Yeah, they got him assumed as the bad guy.

Don Hateley (28:54)

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James Petregallo (30:54)

Now, from all we can assume here, it seemed like Dylan and James Brenner got along though. So that makes it's interesting. So the family, Dylan's family hires a private investigator, which already there. Well, they did it right away because I'm not sure. I don't think they have a lot of confidence in this police department going out in the middle of the desert and really following through on this shit, even though they do.

Jimmy Wissman (31:15)

Like they're. Yeah, it doesn't seem like they're doing much out there anyway, so I don't know. They're versed in how to do this.

James Petregallo (31:21)

That's the thing. And I read, I'm telling you this, like I said, there was a Freedom of Information act release of all the files in this case. Yeah, so I've read, I read 30 police reports. I read all this shit. So I saw everything they were doing and they were following up on things and I mean they had to drive out to the desert a lot, trying their best a fucking lot here. So this guy went on a YouTube channel to talk publicly, the private investigator, he did all of that. He reported that Rounds has been farming in the desert town of Lucen, Utah during the summer months over the past few years. And, you know, all of that sort of thing. So Rounds, Dylan reportedly told his grandmother that he was doing the seed truck and that's how that goes. So now he was last seen on May 26, 2002. People talked to him on the 28th. He was last seen in a cafe in Montello, Nevada, which is close by on the other side of the border there, where he ate before going back to Utah. So they found out that that's a thing. So they're going to figure that out on May 30th. Now, this is his mom and Dylan's mom. And Dylan's stepfather here apparently traveled out to Lucent from their residence in Ohio in Idaho, because Dylan hadn't been heard from. So on the way to Lucent, Candace is his mom and his stepdad stopped in Park Valley, Utah, where they were able to get cell service and call Don Hateley, the Neighbor there and then call the box Elder county sheriff's office to report that Dylan was missing. During the call to Hatley or Haitley, Candice asked Haitley if she should call the police to make a missing persons report. And Hateley told her, yes, I think that that would be okay to do now. So Candace and the stepfather drove from Park Valley to Lucen and met Hateley on the road into Lucent, where Haitley's turnoff into his property was. Hateley told the mom that that James Brenner was waiting for him there, waiting for them to talk to them. So Candace and the stepmom continued to the property where James Brenner lived. Hateley waited near his turn off so that Hateley could direct others arriving to look for Dylan as to where to go because there's people showing up looking for him. They pull their truck into the property. Candace and the stepdad are met by James Brenner. They park by the grain truck, which was parked in the grain shed. So they park back over there where he was last going. So after their arrival, James Brenner mentioned that Dillon needed to learn how to use a gun. He said that he kept the gun on one side of Dillon's truck and the ammo on the other side and that Dillon would be better off learning to throw a gun as opposed to shooting it as a means of self defense.

Jimmy Wissman (34:10)

Because he's got the gun and ammo separate.

James Petregallo (34:12)

Exactly. So he had them separate. So they said, that's interesting. And they reported that to the sheriff's department that he said that he also repeatedly, James did made mention that Brenner had been in the grain truck in order to reposition the truck because the truck had been backed in too far. He said, I had to move this truck because he backed it in way too far. Like frustrated, though. So he also told them that whatever happened to Dylan, Dillon likely left out of the front gate of the property because there was small dually tire tracks leaving out of the front gate. Okay, so they're searching all over the place. Within the first few days, volunteer teams logged over 300 hours searching, covering over 3,000 miles. Wow. Yeah. They said they've been searching around the clock every day. Detectives have already 6,000 miles. I don't know how you even do that. Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot. They spent over 650 man hours investigating the case. They've got canines, drones, They've been on horseback. They flew planes over this thing. I mean, everywhere. They said the surrounding areas on the Utah, Nevada border is full of old mine shafts, caves, and tunnels. That's what the mother said. So she said a professional cave diver volunteered to help search some of those spaces for them. Because you got to know how to do that shit, so you can't just go fucking walking into a cave. Parents also offer a $20,000 reward as well. And they also said there's a number of false rumors and fake fundraisers circulating on social media.

Jimmy Wissman (35:49)

Oh, isn't that fun?

James Petregallo (35:50)

Isn't that great? So on the initial day of May 30, when they're looking around and searching, they found a pair of Georgia work boots. Georgia. That's the brand that belong to Dylan. And they're on the property behind the grain shed where the truck was backed in. The boots were being described as located directly south, directly west of James Brenner's trailer. And they look like they were just thrown into the brush, like they weren't lined up next to each other sitting there, like someone took them off. Now, they. James Brenner claimed that Dylan must have thrown them away out there in the trash pile. So Brenner asked the police officer if he had found any blood on the boots, which the cop was like, pardon, What? That's a weird question.

Jimmy Wissman (36:37)

Did you find blood?

James Petregallo (36:38)

You didn't find any blood on those boots, did you? What now? Thought you didn't even know they were there. What's up with that? One of the boots appeared to have a dark spot on them consistent with some type of blood. In speaking with the sergeant that was there, Brenner detailed to him that on the 28th day of May, when he arrived home, he noticed Dylan had parked his grain truck in the shed. And James said that he went to the shed where he had pens set up for his chickens and horse and that he was mad that Dylan had knocked over all the pens in parking his grain truck. It's hard back in trucks in, you know.

Jimmy Wissman (37:12)

So anytime anybody's missing and somebody goes, we were. I was mad at that guy.

James Petregallo (37:16)

I was mad at him. By the way, did he have blood on his shoes? Yeah. How about that? I got bracelets for you you might like. So it's real interesting here. They said the original meeting place was at the location where Dylan parks his grain truck. The land on the location is being occupied by James Brenner. They made contact with Brenner and talked to him about this shit. Now, his original statement, he spoke with multiple individuals. Brenner did and had been making the statement that he knew that someone had driven up and taken Dylan. So he's been telling everybody and that Dylan wasn't just simply missing. He was taken.

Jimmy Wissman (37:51)

He was kidnapped.

James Petregallo (37:52)

Kidnapped. So Brenner said he believed that this is what happened because his gate was open. And Dylan never leaves Brenner's gate open. Brenner also stated that when he noticed the gate, he saw there were tracks at the gate. And also he identified the tracks that were there in a way that they appeared to stop. And that's where Dylan was taken. He figured right here. He detected it all up.

Jimmy Wissman (38:15)

Yeah, I've already found the. The dually tracked at the gate. So he left.

James Petregallo (38:21)

I just fucking Jerry orbached the shit out of this thing. It's good. We're done.

Jimmy Wissman (38:25)

Get out of here, guys. This is my land.

James Petregallo (38:26)

Take off. Yep, the cop said as he spoke with Brenner. The cop learned that he. What he was reporting to everyone was simply speculation. And he had no actual knowledge of Dylan being taken. He said, you're just. This is just your like theory. You're amateur detective? Guess. And he was like, well, yeah. They were like, okay, so that's useless. Great, thanks.

Jimmy Wissman (38:47)

But just because I'm not wearing a badge don't mean it didn't happen.

James Petregallo (38:52)

I guess not. No. So the boots that they found turn out to be a big deal because the mother said those are the only pair of boots he has. Dylan.

Jimmy Wissman (39:04)

Yeah. And a farmer's not getting rid of his boots.

James Petregallo (39:07)

No, he said his mom said at that point it should have been treated as foul play. You just don't see someone's boots in the desert that's missing. We knew the first day we got out there when we saw Dylan's boots. What happened to him? That's what the mother says.

Jimmy Wissman (39:21)

The mother knew already.

James Petregallo (39:23)

Mother said his boots are there. He's gone. This is his boots.

Jimmy Wissman (39:27)

He's dead.

James Petregallo (39:27)

He's dead. Yeah. Found his dad. He just died with his boots off, that's all. So they follow the trail here. They go to Montello, which is the town over the Nevada state line where he was last seen. And they said they went to the cowboy bar, is what it's called. Big surprise there.

Jimmy Wissman (39:46)

19 year olds allowed on a cowboy bar.

James Petregallo (39:48)

Fuck yeah. Well, I guess you can eat there too. And they spoke with two Montello citizens to see if they knew anything about Dylan. They asked the bar owner if she had seen Dylan recently. The bar owner said that Dylan had not been in for about a week. So they spoke with the bar patrons and, you know, they were told that Dylan was staying out In Lucent, which they already knew, and that. That there were locals out looking for him as well. Like, they're like, oh, there's people here out looking for him. So they asked the bar owner who Dylan spends time with, and she replied that he spends time with her son and that her son was out there looking for Dylan right now. Now, the daughter of the bar owner said that she heard Dylan had a confrontation with a man named Chase Venstra. Okay. Now, Chase Venstra is a local drifter with a long criminal record, and he's a mess, basically. So this. The daughter said she was worried about this confrontation. She said that if Dylan walked back from where he left his grain truck and this Chase Vestra got a hold of him, something bad could have happened in that time, in that space between those two places. She explained that another individual in Montello had his face smashed in by the butt of a gun and his whole camper shell was destroyed. And the people at the bar said that Chase, that lives out in a motorhome out on Church street, and that's where, quote, all the drug users live.

Jimmy Wissman (41:15)

Chase is a bad guy.

James Petregallo (41:17)

Yeah. He's not a good cat in this town, anyway. He's not considered one. So this young lady went on to reply that she'd heard it said that Chase was out there in a. In a ghillie suit.

Jimmy Wissman (41:30)

Yeah.

James Petregallo (41:30)

What's that?

Jimmy Wissman (41:32)

It's one of those, like a camouflage suit.

James Petregallo (41:35)

Oh, okay. Like a combat suit. Some kind of. Okay.

Jimmy Wissman (41:39)

Worse. It's like. Yeah, it's kind of. I mean, Schwarzenegger would have worn it in fucking Predator. Yeah.

James Petregallo (41:45)

Yeah.

Jimmy Wissman (41:46)

Why do I always want to call him Platoon?

James Petregallo (41:47)

I don't know. You've done that several much different movie. Yeah, but I would like to see Charlie Sheen fight the Predator, though. That would be great. That. I'll watch fucking Willem Dafoe going after the Predator. That would be fun. Predator starring Tom Barringer. That's good stuff.

Jimmy Wissman (42:06)

It's a swamp suit, essentially. It's like trying to keep yourself hidden, camouflaged.

James Petregallo (42:11)

Okay. Well, she said he's out there in one of these suits and would attempt suicide by law enforcement if they came for him.

Jimmy Wissman (42:17)

Oh, he might be just hiding amongst the.

James Petregallo (42:20)

Yeah, just ready to throw down. Ready to start a firefight with somebody.

Jimmy Wissman (42:25)

Yeah.

James Petregallo (42:25)

So it was then stated that Dylan was driving down the road and Chase had stopped and asked Dylan for water. Chase then asked Dylan if he knew Kurt, which is another guy we'll talk about. And they got into an altercation somehow. Everybody fights over nothing in this Town there's two people around and they're all.

Jimmy Wissman (42:40)

Mad at each other.

James Petregallo (42:41)

Two people in five square miles and they want to fight. Like wouldn't you just want to talk to somebody? It'd be so lonely.

Jimmy Wissman (42:46)

Wow.

James Petregallo (42:47)

Jesus Christ. So they got into an altercation and Chase said Kurt was an asshole. To which Dylan said he wasn't. Dylan said, no, he's not. He's a good guy. Yeah. Throw down, boy. So then they spoke with more bar patrons and didn't receive any new information about Dylan and Chase. It was stated at the bar that Dylan was a good kid and didn't do drugs. They were told that Chase does do drugs quite often. And outside of multiple rumors and second to third hand information, they found nothing further. So they drove back to Lucen to talk to some other people here. They talked to a guy named Kevin Bibbins and they talked to him about half hour. He said his property was burned down at one point. This place is.

Jimmy Wissman (43:33)

Bibbins was craz.

James Petregallo (43:34)

Yeah. This is the craziest place ever, dude.

Jimmy Wissman (43:37)

There's a lot of fire.

James Petregallo (43:38)

This is wild. Wow. And detailed a time when he was assaulted by Brenner as well, James Brenner. When the talk turned to Dylan, Kevin didn't have any information about what may have happened to him. But he did say that Brenner is kind of a nut and attacked him one time. So then he went out to the. This cop went out to the property where Brenner was and where Dylan parked the grain truck. The cops searched inside of the grain truck to see if maybe Dylan's phone or wallet may have been left inside. And the cop said he was informed that Dylan's family had already gone through the truck. But he said he searched it again and didn't find anything except a phone charging cord. So there's about that. Now this is when the cops find out that the families not only put up a $20,000 reward, it also had an old picture of Chase Venstra and stated that they were offering a $5,000 reward for information on locating Chase.

Jimmy Wissman (44:36)

Stock this guy for five grand.

James Petregallo (44:38)

Yeah. He's not even like a technically a suspect yet.

Jimmy Wissman (44:42)

He's not missing nor a suspect. What the fuck can you do?

James Petregallo (44:45)

That fucking wild man. That is crazy shit. So then they talk about that they found. There's a guy. I swear to God. His name's Joe Glasscock.

Jimmy Wissman (44:57)

Perfect.

James Petregallo (44:58)

He's the Wine Cup Ranch manager, Joey Glasscock.

Jimmy Wissman (45:02)

That's the Wine Cup.

James Petregallo (45:04)

Wine Cup Ranch. It's just called Wine cup, but the word Wine is in Glasgow. It's just too much. So he's talked about an incident with Chase Venstra. He said about a week ago, he was driving on the highway toward the Wine Cup Ranch when he saw Chase lying on the side of the highway dressed in camouflage in a ghillie suit. In a ghillie suit. Joe said he recognized Chase from prior employment, so he stopped to check on him. According to Joe, Chase started to approach the vehicle while carrying a rifle.

Jimmy Wissman (45:35)

You're not good camouflage. I can see you.

James Petregallo (45:38)

I saw, hey, buddy, what's going on?

Jimmy Wissman (45:39)

While I was driving, I saw you.

James Petregallo (45:41)

And he's stopping to go, are you okay? And this guy's approaching him with a rifle.

Jimmy Wissman (45:45)

Jesus.

James Petregallo (45:45)

So according to Joe, he said that Glasscock said he was concerned enough for his safety that he had a gun out of on his vehicle seat. But Chase didn't continue all the way to the vehicle. Joe said that after his interaction with Chase, Chase walked east on the railroad tracks where Joe believed that he would come across Dylan. That's when Dylan ran into him. Chase was barefoot and needed water and his phone charged. And that's when Dylan let him charge his phone and gave him water. So there's a thing that happens there. According to Joe, Chase appeared to be under the influence of some type of narcotic. Based on his odd behavior and mannerisms. He said that he saw him. He said, after the pickup left, Chase got up and I could see he was wearing camouflage clothing and a tan military style backpack. He was carrying a tan assault rifle with a scope. He crossed the highway and started walking toward Lewson. I asked him what he was doing, and he said, just trying to stay out of trouble. I said, with an assault rifle?

Jimmy Wissman (46:45)

Yeah.

James Petregallo (46:46)

And he said, it's just a pea shooter. And that was the last he saw of him. All right, so moron Chase. Later on that day, they talked to Candace, Dylan's mom, and Dylan said, or Dylan's mom said that Dylan had told her he was driving on Tacoma Road when Chase ran out of the bushes bloody and high on drugs. According to Candace, Chase did not have any shoes on and wanted a ride from Dylan. Dylan didn't feel comfortable giving him a ride due to his erratic behavior. So Dylan reportedly left Chase with water and contacted Chase's father to inform him about Chase so he could pick up up. So that's another incident he's had with him. So that's interesting now. Very, very interesting. Now they talk a little bit about Dylan. They said he had purchased his own land and they're talking about all this, they talked to the parents more about Chase to see if maybe there was some other stuff with Chase that happened, you know what I mean? Did he threaten your son? Did your son say anything about that and all that shit. So after they interview the family, they went back to the property that the grain truck was parked on at that time. They had another sergeant there. They took a bunch of pictures and Brenner was there the entire time and walked around with the cops while they tried to separate from him. While he was. They said they couldn't get away from him. He wouldn't leave them the fuck alone. He wanted to see exactly what they were doing. Which is odd when you add that with. Is there any blood on that boot?

Jimmy Wissman (48:19)

Yeah, and I've already found the truck. Those truck tracks.

James Petregallo (48:22)

Yeah. This is weird. So June 3, 2022, they think Chase is on the run here. They tried. The cops are trying to interview Chase, but they were unsuccessful getting in contact with him. They couldn't find him, but they. They were left a voicemail. They were advised though, that by friends that Chase had been making posts on Facebook about Dylan's disappearance saying that he wasn't involved in any way. Which is super weird when you're posting on Facebook that you weren't involved. He posted that we would have not been in contact with him. But at one point he said he wasn't even out there at the time and that he already had spoken to Candace about it and was cleared by her and the private investigator. Oh, if you're cleared by the mob, tell the cops that. But the FBI is involved in this and shit like this is.

Jimmy Wissman (49:10)

There's a 19 year old missing, so.

James Petregallo (49:12)

It'S pretty fucking interesting. So they said the deputy said that he was a. Deputies told the detective that he was Chase's neighbor growing up and that Chase had been sending him text messages about Dylan. Chase told this deputy that he had no involvement in the disappearance and he wasn't even out there after the 25th of May. At one point he stated that he did talk to a private investigator and was cleared of any involvement. You know, and he said that the Box County Elder Box Elder County Sheriff's Office just wants to arrest him and leave him in jail while they continue the investigation. So that's why he's hiding. He also said everything that anybody said about him was total bullshit, quote unquote. So then they found out though that chase had a $75,000 arrest warrant out of Montana for a domestic incident. So they got in contact with other sheriff to try to find him and all that kind of thing. They finally get Chase in there, good, they get him here. And he said the last time he talked to Dylan was when he drove him to the Tacoma crossroads. So they talked to him. He said that. I don't know anything about it. That's just all he did. He said he gave the exactly where he was. I mean everything he said. On 28 May at 06:00, he was at Little Caesar's Pizza. Then he bought beer and went home like, oh, that is a rough night. That's a rough gastrointestinal night. Pizza and Little Caesars or Little Caesars and beer. Oh, boy.

Jimmy Wissman (50:41)

I can't imagine it's any any higher grade beer than Little Caesar's kind of beer.

James Petregallo (50:46)

No shit, man.

Candace Rounds (50:48)

Everybody, we have some exciting news that we want to share. If you want to go on an adventure with Generation Y, we'd love for you to join us. January 26th through the 30th, 2026, we'll be sailing from Miami to the Bahamas. Dramas on Wondery's first ever true crime cruise aboard the Norwegian Joy. Aaron and I will be there to chat, hang out, dive into all things true crime. And we're thrilled to be joined by some familiar voices in the true crime podcasting world. Sirtee and Hannah from Red Handed, Sashi and Sarah from Scamfluencers and Carl Miller from Kill List. Super excited to hang out with them too. We got some cool activities. Interact with of mysteries we can solve. Testing our forensic skills with a blood spatter expert and so much more. So for some sun fun and just the right amount of mystery solving, come join us if you'd like to know more and secure your spot. Visit exhibitccruise.com for pre sale information.

Joe Glasscock (51:45)

In the 1980s, a swept the country.

James Petregallo (51:49)

Hey Mike, I really like this white Zinfandel.

Jimmy Wissman (51:50)

Well, good, good.

James Petregallo (51:51)

Now put it down. We're going to try another one. White.

Joe Glasscock (51:53)

White Zin became America's top selling wine. But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history. What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles.

James Petregallo (52:03)

A big fraud, multi million dollar fraud.

Joe Glasscock (52:06)

Sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business. The Licciardis. But the closer the feds got to them, the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit.

Jimmy Wissman (52:18)

At the time, I was paranoid.

Matthew Scher (52:20)

Threats, you touch my kids, I will kill you.

Narrator (52:23)

And murder with a.22 caliber bullet to the head.

Joe Glasscock (52:27)

What started with a scheme to mislabel wine Spilled into a blood soaked battle for succession. Welcome to bloodvines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify.

Narrator (52:45)

Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From COVID experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week on Redacted Declassified Mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories. 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II not as prisoners, but as assets to advance US intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries on the Wondery Avenue or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad free right now on Wondery plus.

James Petregallo (53:46)

So Chase said some more information about things that were occurring in the desert here. He said that Dylan and Kurt Wadsworth might be in a relationship with one another. Kurt is the bar owner's kid, I believe. Said that he thought they might be in a relationship, one another and he. With one another. And described that he has seen Kurt dress up in. Dresses. Okay. He told the cops that he believes that Kurt could be attempting to set him up. Meaning me setting me up. Chase. He also said that when he was out in that area, he had his boy's SKS rifle, shotgun and pistol. Stated that the pistol was stolen. And he informed the cops that he thinks Kurt's place would be a good place to look for Dillon and that he hopes Kurt hasn't hurt Dylan.

Jimmy Wissman (54:32)

Okay.

James Petregallo (54:33)

Wow. Interesting.

Jimmy Wissman (54:35)

They're in a homosexual relationship and I'm hoping that Kurt didn't hurt.

James Petregallo (54:39)

Yeah, that's what he's. That's what he's claiming. No one else is saying this, by the way.

Jimmy Wissman (54:42)

That's a wild accusation.

James Petregallo (54:44)

It's a lot. Yeah, it's. That's. I mean, all we've heard are crazy rumors and innuendos and this is small town gossip. That's all this is.

Jimmy Wissman (54:52)

Nothing's checking out yet?

James Petregallo (54:53)

Nope. So they interview Brenner again. They keep talking to him. They talk to him on the 7th, they talk to him June 7th and then June 11th, and they serve a search warrant on his trailer. During that search, they Found ball, ammunition, ignition caps, black powder, speed loads, all related to muzzle loading, which were photographed in the trailer. They didn't seize them at the time, but they're going to go back and he's going to get arrested for weapons charges again because he's not allowed to have that. June 8, 2022. There's a tip that comes in here. They spoke with an individual who remained anonymous and they said that, okay, Dylan Rounds and Kurt Wadsworth lived inside the Saddle Sore bar together. Which sounds like a. That sounds like a gay bar. I know it's not, but that sounds like your butthole sore because you've been getting it pounded all night. That's what that sounds like.

Jimmy Wissman (55:45)

That's the whole point of it. Yeah, that's like saddle sores are.

James Petregallo (55:48)

If you were in a city and you saw the Saddle Sore bar, you'd go, that's a gay bar. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So this guy stated that Wadsworth and potentially Dylan were running around with loaded guns and wondered if there was potentially an accident. It was reported that multiple. Multiple individuals had been running around Montello, Nevada area with loaded guns trying to catch people committing thefts. By some crazy. Probably some. Probably some YouTube bullshit where they're trying to. Yeah. They were previously referred to being vigilantes, but I was unable to actually obtain information confirming that this was actually transpiring. This is the cop talking. This is from his. But in the Montello, Nevada relation to Dylan Rounds, the vast majority of these statements were third person and could not be verified or confirmed at all. This person also stated that the Wadsworth family that's in Montello, Nevada, was Barbara, Troy, Kurt and Scott. And he said they ran a lot of things in town, including the Saddle Sore and cowboy bars. They also said that Troy Wadsworth had been seen with multiple scratches on his forearm and he had stated he crashed a three wheeler. But this guy said, I went and looked at his three wheeler and it didn't have any scratches on it.

Jimmy Wissman (57:03)

So, you know, those things will throw you.

James Petregallo (57:06)

That's a machine. And he said that it happened yesterday, but his scratches were already scabbed over. So he didn't believe him. So. And then this guy said, or whoever this is, this anonymous person said that Kurt has a backhoe that was out in Lucent and explained that Kurt knows the mines and other areas that could be used to hide a body. So they're trying to put this on Kurt big time. So anyway, Brenner's arrested for all the weapons violations here. Yeah, they also Go out to Dylan's property. They talk to Dylan's grandfather, Larry, and he told the cops that Brenner and Don Hatley had gone into town grocery shopping and that they recently spoke with Don Hatley, and they were almost on their way back to Lucent. So they're waiting to arrest Brenner here. So they're going to do that. They get Brenner in cuffs. And this cop approached Don Hatley and inquired if the gate access to Brenner's trailer was secured or not. Don said it was open, but he could go and close it. Don't leave his gate open, which is a nice gesture by the cops. So the cop asked Don about Brenner's horse on the property that he needed to keep in the fenced area. Don said that he does. That he does have a horse and stated that he needed Brenner's keys. Brenner said that Don would secure and lock the gate. I told him that Don was about to get the keys. Brenner started to get upset and saying that he doesn't want anyone in there. I don't want anyone in there, which is weird. Don said if he didn't want to give him the keys, that's fine, and asked, if your trailer's locked, I'll lock it for you. Brenner said that it was locked, and he asked Don to close the gate and get the cooler that has meat in it from earlier when they got groceries. Brenner angrily said he doesn't want anyone in there. He was irate and said that people go in and out of there and they don't close the gate, and he has to go and look for his horse, and it gets out of the gate and he says that he has to go up to the mountains to find his horse, which is bullshit.

Jimmy Wissman (59:03)

It's enough with the horse.

James Petregallo (59:05)

Yeah. So this is fucking amazing. So Don said that Brenner had been living on his own property in the Nevada side of the state line before his trailer burned down, and that's why he went to live on Dylan's property. Don continued to explain that one day Brenner looked out his window and there were two people stealing a winch off his truck. He explained that Brenner hollered at them, but they just flipped him off. I'd expect.

Jimmy Wissman (59:29)

Fuck you, it's our winch.

James Petregallo (59:31)

Now. I'd expect some desert trailer hermit to come out bucking shots, wouldn't you?

Jimmy Wissman (59:36)

Yeah, I'm not taking any. Especially a winch that probably saves his life in some Situations.

James Petregallo (59:42)

Yeah. Not only that. Just if I see that, I expect the guy on the old Mountain Dew can to come out like a long beard and a hat, firing a fucking shotgun gun in the air, talking about, get out of my property. Tennessee Valley Authority. I don't want no electricity.

Jimmy Wissman (59:58)

Don't fuck with a man's winch.

James Petregallo (60:00)

No. At this point, according to Don, Brenner had a black powdered pistol and shot at the individuals, which will happen. Don did state that he does think that Dylan went and parked the grain truck on the property that Brenner was living on without calling Brenner to come and open the gate for him. So, okay. Now, Brenner's statement, he said that Don Hatley. They're talking about what happened the day that he was gone, that Dylan disappeared. He said at approximately 1300-1400 hours, he left the farm where the trailer's located. He said that Don Hatley was cooking ribs and they were going to watch Yellowstone. I'm going to go watch some Costner is what I'm going to do.

Jimmy Wissman (60:42)

So living life on the range, watching shows about.

James Petregallo (60:45)

Watching shows about living. Go. And these people are full of shit. Are they doing it just to call out how full of shit they are? That ain't right right there. Anyhow. You hook up a horse trailer.

Jimmy Wissman (60:56)

TV's a break from reality, so you don't have to think about day to day shit. They're watching shows about their day to day.

James Petregallo (61:04)

All I do is watch police interrogations and shit. So I guess it's the same thing.

Jimmy Wissman (61:09)

But like, Yellowstone is about conference, everybody's. It makes sense why they're all mad at each other.

James Petregallo (61:14)

Yeah, they get it. Apparently, that's when you move out to the middle of nowhere. You just want to kill all your neighbors, apparently. Fuck. So Brenner stated that before he went to Don's residence, he went to Lucent Pond to gather wood and water because it's on the way to Don's. Brenner said that he arrived home about 2100 hours, and when he came over the hill, he saw Dillon's grain truck. He told the cops that Dylan was the kind of kid who does whatever the hell he wants and doesn't tell you anything. Brenner said that Dillon backed the grain truck in the shed and moved Brenner's stuff out of the way. Brenner also said that Dillon had broken some of his property. According to Brenner, he didn't think anything of it until Don called him the next day and asked if he'd seen Dillon. Brenner stated that he was looking around outside. He found what he stated were two tracks of 10 wheelers going one in and one out. Brenner stated that he didn't use the front gate there and that he noticed Dillon had unhooked the wires to the gate because it was locked and he wanted access. Brenner further said that Dylan or somebody had wired the gate back up, and he felt that Dylan had left the grain truck and exited the property. So as he continued, he named Chase Venstra and explained how Chase had been a problem in both Montello and Lucy. He said that he knew who, quote, who quote over there uses methamphetamine. And he continued explaining that the different items and places he felt Chase had stolen from both him and other victims in the area. He said that Brenner said he saw a black truck on Chase's property that he knew was responsible for blowing up his trailer. So he's. This guy says that Chase blew up his trailer. Okay. He relayed frustrations that the Elko County Sheriff's Department won't go and investigate the incidents. Wow. They said they let him speak without too much interruption, even though he was trying to move the conversation away from Dylan's disappearance. But that's what he wants to talk about. Basically. He said that Dillon drinks beer. And one time around the 4th of July, Dillon arrived back to Lucen from Twin Falls, Idaho, and had the entire back of his truck loaded with beer. He stated that Dylan stored the beer in one of the trailers he had on his farm property. He also said that Dylan borrowed money from him to purchase that trailer. Borrowed money from a desert squatter. Brenner also said that Dylan was in the bar in Montello bragging about how much money he had. Brenner continued to make allegations and name individuals that he stated were into drugs and stealing things. He also made allegations about crimes he stated he knew as a fact, but ultimately was being told this information. He wasn't present to any of these described. He just described every bit of gossip of every crime that he's heard about in the last five years to these people. So Brenner told us he believes that Dylan was involved in a strong arm robbery, and he believes it was Chase Venstra and Robert Avilas. And Brenner reported that he believes Dylan wouldn't give them money, and it escalated.

Jimmy Wissman (64:13)

Chase sounds pretty dangerous.

James Petregallo (64:15)

He does. When asked about the bar, Brenner stated that he did not think that Kurt or Troy Rodsworth would have anything to do with this incident, he explained that Kurt was too good to Dylan. And allowed him to sleep in the bar when Dylan had had too much alcohol and couldn't drive home. That's what. He doesn't live there with him. He sleeps in the bar when he's too drunk. They let him fucking put a cot on a table in the fucking back.

Jimmy Wissman (64:36)

Yeah. Why does he care if Dylan is the kind of kid that just does whatever he wants? Doesn't he own this shit?

James Petregallo (64:41)

Yeah, it's his land. So Brenner told the cops that Dylan had a shotgun he would keep in the backseat of his truck. And they found that in Rigby, Idaho, with his family. Brenner stated that Dylan also had a handgun that he had already found. Brenner commented that Dylan would often keep the handgun in his truck's console. But did not keep it loaded all the time. Remember, he'd be better off throwing it. Brenner said he told Dylan that he either needs to learn how to use the pistol or put it somewhere because it would end up getting him killed. And then he commented that it was a little late for that, referring to the pistol. And said that he was telling Dylan's dad, Justin, that as well. He just. He just had him killed off already. So he went back to stating he believes Chase and the drug users were the ones responsible for the disappearance. He went off about Kevin Bibbins saying that he would only. He would. He would be the only one going around out in Lucin and Montello carrying a gun. This is a mess. So they explained to him that Dillon's boots were out where they were located there. And they had to be taken out there by someone. Brenner talked about Dylan telling his grandmother or somebody on the phone. And he said that Chase didn't have boots, remember? So he probably didn't. Well, then. Well, he would have probably warned them then, not left them in a fucking field. So they said that I told this guy, said I told Brenner that it was odd that there didn't appear to be any vehicle tracks out to the location of the boots. And he explained that someone had to have taken the boots out there. As it's too far for the boots to just be thrown out there by someone. They then asked him, is there any reason that your DNA would be found on these boots?

Jimmy Wissman (66:14)

Oh, that's a good question.

James Petregallo (66:16)

Brenner said that if he picked them up, if he picked them up, there might be some fingerprints on him. And that his fingerprints are on everything out there. Everything in the vast desert has Fingerprints.

Jimmy Wissman (66:27)

I touch every. That's the thing about me and 6 year olds. I touch every.

James Petregallo (66:32)

We hang out all the time. My fingerprints are on none of your shoes. None of them. And you have multiple pairs. This is this guy's only pair of shoes. They're always on his feet. This guy's. Was he going down, checking his toe to see if he's growing out of them?

Jimmy Wissman (66:44)

I give him a lot of foot massages through his shoes.

James Petregallo (66:47)

Do that all the time. So. And Brenner stated that he did pick up a boot out there and threw it before. He said he doesn't know how they got out there now. He goes, oh, yeah, I did pick it up and throw it. Yeah, that's how that happened. So they're like, interesting. He told us that he never saw the boots we recovered and didn't know if it was one of those boots. But he's touched some of Dylan something. He described that he was walking out to catch his horse on a path and came across a boot that he threw out of the way that might have been the same boot. So they search his area, Brenner's area here, and they now they have some phone activity. So they have phone activity between him and Brennan, basically. And the way it ends up happening is their phones line up perfectly at some point to where all of their movements are together. And then Dylan's phone doesn't have any more movements, and Brenner's goes about its day.

Jimmy Wissman (67:42)

Yeah.

James Petregallo (67:42)

Keeps moving. So they said that Dylan's phone appeared to move around the property until 1101 hours, where it goes stationary on the property for 3 hours and 36 minutes. So 11:01am it goes stationary, which he's on a property doing things that wouldn't be stationary. Then the phone moves again at 1437, where it travels from the barn to Lucent Pond. Remember, that's the same exact time Brenner said he was at Lewson Pond. And by the way, his phone is also at Lucen Pond at this time. The route that Dylan's phone takes is on the road that Brenner refers to as the back way. And Brenner has stated on multiple occasions he doesn't use the little Pigeon Mountain road to go to the main entrance. He uses the back way. The phone arrives at the pond at 14:52 hours. And that's the last movement of the phone. The final timestamp on his phone is 14 hours, 53 minutes and 55 seconds.

Jimmy Wissman (68:32)

Okay.

James Petregallo (68:33)

Also, so they analyzed all of Brenner's. Everything mirrors Everything until the pond. And then Brenner goes on with his day. So they went, huh, that pretty much says it all. We just watched what happened. So they find it in the water, in the pond. They find his phone.

Jimmy Wissman (68:51)

The phone is in the water.

James Petregallo (68:52)

Yeah. They find the phone, the polygraph. Now they bring him in. They tell him he's going to do a polygraph. Brenner, he does it. They tell him, you didn't do well on that at all. You did very poorly. So they end up he's in there anyway for the guns. So after the polygraph, they interviewed him again and told him. They asked him if there's anything other than Dylan's boots and inside Dylan's truck that could have his DNA on it. He told investigators that Dylan's trailer is another item that would have DNA on it. He also included the tractor, and they said, have you ever asked. Handled his cell phone? And he said, no, absolutely not. Uh oh. So they find out that he did, obviously. So That's a problem. June 20, 2022, there's a neighbor here, Donald Hatley. They talked to him a little bit more, and they talk about that. Brenner. Okay. They said on June 7, Brenner brought three black powder guns to his house and asked him to, quote, safekeep them.

Jimmy Wissman (69:54)

Hang on to these people.

James Petregallo (69:55)

Hang on like Godfather 2 when he passes him. Hang on to this for me through the window. So when the. Just in case you didn't realize, I watched Godfather 2 recently because I made two references in an hour.

Jimmy Wissman (70:06)

Yeah, it's the better one.

James Petregallo (70:08)

Right. They're both great, but I like it better. Yeah. When the neighbor asked why here? Brenner said that he needed to do this for his own safety and that the last time he had trouble with the law, they took everything from him and he didn't want his things to be taken again, so he brought a.22 caliber rifle and some shit like that. He explained that the rifle had been left in a trailer on the property where Brenner had been living prior to Brenner living there by a person who owed Brenner money. So that's what that goes on here. So, yeah. So Donald Hatley talks about a little bit more about Dylan, and he said that Brenner had potential to fly off the handle and get extremely violent when upset. He talked about several incidents when that happened there. So they keep talking to this Donald Hatley because they think that he might have some info as a neighbor. But all he has. He has a lot of innuendo and all that. He said that he liked Dylan and that he wanted to help because he believed in villains. Dylan's vision, not villains. Dizhen to start a farm in Lucent. And he felt like a father type to Dylan and he wanted to help him out, so there's that. Now, this guy said he knew Brenner since he lived in Montello and he'd seen Brenner two to three times a week since Brenner has been in Lewson. And he said if Brenner did kill Dillon, he didn't know where Brenner would hide a body. He said that he did do some. Dylan did some exploring. He and Dylan did some exploring together at the Williams place, where Hatley described being north between Brenner's place and Dylan's place on the other side of the mountain. He did say that if Brenner did kill Dylan, he would not probably find the body easily out there.

Jimmy Wissman (71:55)

Oh.

James Petregallo (71:56)

So anyway, June 25, they get more tips to police from complete about completely different people. A guy said that they had a friend near Area 51. They said that a female. Said the guy was named Justin Hayward, but goes by the rap music name Lil Eric. So she's blaming Lil Eric on this. That's what's going on here. Lil Eric killed him.

Jimmy Wissman (72:24)

It's a stupid rap name.

James Petregallo (72:26)

Oh, my God. So when they get the phone out of. That's a terrible rap name. When they get the phone out of the pond, that's when everything breaks open. Because the opportunity and the phones being together make Brenner look very guilty.

Jimmy Wissman (72:40)

Yeah. Unless Little Eric left a note in this phone.

James Petregallo (72:46)

Little Eric did. This bitch left his calling card.

Jimmy Wissman (72:50)

No, Lil Eric.

James Petregallo (72:51)

No, no Lil Eric. It's a bad rap name. So while they're searching the phone, they actually recover his phone. Recover data from his phone despite it being in a pond. Nope. There was media located that clearly shows that the phone was in a trailer and was identified as Brenner's trailer. There's a picture of. This is fucked up. The timeframe is consistent with Dylan first arriving on the property in the morning of May 28th. The media recording was originally moving at a high speed, then was converted to a lower speed recording by the FBI. Now, in the video, the stair railing can be seen as well as the window and the door of Brenner's place. Brenner can be seen in the video wiping off a revolver consistent with his black powder revolver. And a red substance consistent with blood appears on his left, left elbow, wrist and hand.

Jimmy Wissman (73:47)

How the fuck did that happen?

James Petregallo (73:49)

Don't know. I don't know if he did it on purpose. And then accident maybe. But Brenner is seen wearing a camouflage T shirt. And at multiple points in the recording, it appears he's standing over the phone. They end up going to his house and finding that T shirt with Dylan's blood stains on it.

Jimmy Wissman (74:04)

Oh, shit.

James Petregallo (74:05)

Not good.

Jimmy Wissman (74:07)

He got himself caught.

James Petregallo (74:08)

Not fucking good at all. Yeah, very, very bad. They also found a bunch of other stuff with Dylan's blood on it. They have Brenner's touch DNA on the boots. Yeah.

Jimmy Wissman (74:19)

It's so recent. There's so much technology.

James Petregallo (74:21)

It's so. So technologically. And then the shirt is the big one, though. They literally find the fucking shirt he was wearing when he did it. The video comes right when Dylan went missing. It is not good at all, dear. They also find a hat as well. A John Deere hat that his mother said. Dylan's mother said is a rare special edition John Deere hat that he purchased and worn. And it was confirmed that that was what he was wearing. And James was wearing the hat when they arrested him. He was wearing Dylan's hat.

Jimmy Wissman (74:53)

Dylan's hat. He took the hat.

James Petregallo (74:55)

It's fucked up. So they're still looking for his body, though. They haven't found his body. They look around, they find a bag of bones in the desert, and they find out that they're not human bones. They thought maybe that was it. They find a clump of. Justin, the dad found a clump of skin and hair. Turns out, not his.

Jimmy Wissman (75:14)

Oh, my God. What is happening out here?

James Petregallo (75:16)

Don't know this. I'm telling you, this place is wild. So they charge Brenner with murder. Anyway, obviously I'm here. Then the parents start sending Brenner emails begging for the body.

Jimmy Wissman (75:28)

Yeah, Grandpa let us bury him.

James Petregallo (75:30)

Yeah, Grandpa sent one that said, Jim, this is Larry. On May 30, you said Dylan should learn how to use a gun. A gun can't do you any good if all you know how to do is throw it at someone. Did Dylan throw his gun at you on May 28? What did he do to make you so mad? I would really like to hear it from you. I have some questions I hope you can answer. My phone number is. And gives it out and said, or you can text me. There is money on this account for either one. In other words, if you call me, I'll give you money. I'll pay you to tell me what the fuck happened. So anyway, he decides to make a plea bargain. Really Yup, he admits it. He said, I did it. I killed him. Fuck it, he does it. The prosecutors are working with the parents of Dylan to come out with different options and sentencing outcomes to finalize a plea deal here. So in part of this, he's required to tell all about the case, including the location of the body. That's part of it. So he leads police to the body. It is way out in the middle of the desert in Lucent, just in the middle of the desert, under a pile of fucking shit. And he's skeletonized by now.

Jimmy Wissman (76:34)

Jesus.

James Petregallo (76:35)

This happens about a year and a half later. So he's. He's basically just last year. Yeah, It's a skid. 2023 is when they found the body. So this took this long. They finally found him. He's been. Gunshot wounds is what did it. They think they shot him with the.22 rifle, I believe here.

Jimmy Wissman (76:50)

So much for fucking private investigators.

James Petregallo (76:54)

So Dylan's mom said that's it. Just mad. It was that he was just mad because he told Brenner, told the cops that he was mad that Dylan put his truck in the shed that day. That's why he killed him. Annoyed by the truck in the shed.

Jimmy Wissman (77:08)

It's his property, man.

James Petregallo (77:11)

But he knocked his stuff over. So the mom said, that's it. Just mad. It was absolutely shameful that that's what it was over. And then probably. That's probably all we'll ever get out of him. There's no legal arrangement that can make him tell us exactly what happened that morning. And he said that we're definitely. He said, we've been waiting for it. It's a giant elephant out of the room. It's a relief in that sense. The mom said. Sentencing comes around. The defense and the prosecution agreed to recommend a minimum of three and maximum of 30 years in prison. At sentencing. The judge requested that Brenner stand and face the gallery, which was filled with Dylan's friends and family. And he refused.

Jimmy Wissman (77:54)

What?

James Petregallo (77:55)

He said, nope, not gonna do it. So the judge said, I am going to recommend to the parole board that they keep you as long as they legally can. You, sir, may fuck off. One to 15 years in prison for each of the three counts. He pleaded guilty and he's been given credit for like a year and change. Time served. So it's three year minimum. That's what he's got. They'll run consecutively.

Jimmy Wissman (78:20)

Does he recommend they hang on to him for 15 years?

James Petregallo (78:22)

For 45? Because consecutive. So that's the most he can possibly get. Is 45. So that's, that's a lot. The mother said it shouldn't have been an option. It should be 25 to life. But the justice system forced us into this type of plea. Since then, they've set up a non profit to honor Dylan's memory and to get resources for families who are searching for missing loved ones, which is very cool.

Jimmy Wissman (78:45)

It's so fucked.

James Petregallo (78:46)

It's so fucked. Yeah, that's Dylan's legacy is what it's called. So.

Jimmy Wissman (78:49)

Poor little guy.

James Petregallo (78:51)

That is fucked up, man. This is all fucked up. He went out there, he just, just.

Jimmy Wissman (78:55)

Wanted to grow some grain.

James Petregallo (78:56)

He just wanted to grow grain. He wanted to be fucking. Just feed people.

Jimmy Wissman (79:00)

He's an actual farmer.

James Petregallo (79:01)

Jesus Christ. It's hard. So there's poor Dylan. The most information we've ever had on a case in this, everybody's interviews. It was so much to sift through. So get through the end real quick here. Definitely. If you like that, tell everyone you know. Give us five stars on whatever app you're listening to. Definitely. Head over to shutupandgivemerder.com Tickets not only for virtual live show. It'll be April 19th, the 420 virtual live show. Wherever you are in the world with Wi Fi you can watch it. So check that out. Also tickets for Chicago in May. Get them right fucking now. And the rest of the year as well. Get in there and do that. Shut up and give me a murder.com patreon.com crimeandsports all your bonus material. Anybody. $5 a month or above. Tons of episodes you're gonna get immediately. New ones every other week. This week, the Miami Dolphins bullying scandal for crime and sports, which you get. Small Town Murder, the Amazon review killer. Can't wait for that. Can't wait. Come back. Keep seeing us over and over again. And until next week, everybody. It's been our pleas. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey.

Narrator (80:35)

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James Petregallo (81:01)

This was not an operation that was performed. This was attempted murder.

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James Petregallo (81:22)

This case is one of those rocks roller coaster rides where it's like, no, he did it for sure. No, he for sure he did it.

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