#582 - Seven Murders & One Lie - Elkland, Missouri

Summary

Small Town Murder - Episode #582: Seven Murders & One Lie - Elkland, Missouri

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Release Date: March 28, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode #582 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the harrowing true crime story set in the rural town of Elkland, Missouri. This episode, titled "Seven Murders & One Lie," unpacks the tragic events that unfolded in 1987, exploring the complexities of a tightly-knit community and the dark secrets that led to a series of unimaginable murders.

Elkland, Missouri: A Quiet Rural Community

Elkland, situated in Webster County, Missouri, is characterized by its sprawling farmlands and a population of just under 2,000 residents. With a median household income of approximately $61,467, the town mirrors the national average but maintains a distinctly rural charm. The post office, operational since 1870, lends its name to the town, rooted in the presence of elk in the area.

James Pietragallo [06:05]: "We are going to Elkland, Missouri, this week. Elk land. The land of elk."

The Schnick and Buckner Families: Pillars of the Community

At the heart of this story are two prominent families: the Schnicks and the Buckners. Jim Schnick, a 30-year-old dairy farmer, was deeply embedded in the community, holding positions such as volunteer firefighter, postmaster, and member of the Lions Club. His wife, Julie Schnick (née Buckner), hailed from a long line of farmers, and together they managed their dairy farm alongside their two young children, eight-year-old Jamie and six-year-old Mindy.

Julie’s brother, Steve Buckner, a 35-year-old farmer, faced financial strains after expanding his dairy operations, leading to mounting debts. This expansion left Steve frequently away from home, placing a significant burden on his 14-year-old son, Kirk Buckner, to maintain the family's farm operations.

Jimmie Whisman [08:05]: "We gave a shit about that."
James Pietragallo [14:55]: "Yep, that's that."

Mounting Pressures: Kirk Buckner’s Struggles

Kirk Buckner, the youngest in the Buckner family, was thrust into the role of caretaker at an alarmingly young age. Balancing school attendance with the arduous demands of dairy farming, Kirk managed morning and evening milking sessions for over 40 cows single-handedly. His peers described him as a hardworking but isolated teenager, burdened by responsibilities beyond his years.

James Pietragallo [18:06]: "Everything falls on Kirk's shoulders because the other ones are too young."

The Night of the Murders: September 24, 1987

Tragedy struck early morning on September 25, 1987, when Jim Schnick was discovered with gunshot wounds in the kitchen of his home. Simultaneously, Kirk Buckner was found dead with multiple gunshot and stab wounds. The scene further revealed that Julie Schnick and her two sons, Timmy and Dennis, had been brutally murdered in their beds, alongside the tragic death of Steve Buckner, who was found near a local cemetery.

Jimmie Whisman [29:06]: "Okay."
James Pietragallo [35:03]: "All the kids are dead in the house."

Initial Investigation: Kirk Buckner Under Suspicion

In the immediate aftermath, Kirk Buckner, due to his overwhelming responsibilities on the farm and initial circumstantial evidence, became the primary suspect. The community, grappling with the loss of several of its own, struggled to comprehend the motive behind such a heinous act.

James Pietragallo [39:00]: "And that's when he said that."
Jimmie Whisman [39:10]: "Yeah."

Unraveling the Truth: Jim Schnick Takes the Spotlight

As investigators delved deeper, inconsistencies in Jim Schnick's accounts raised suspicions. Further forensic evidence, including a 22-caliber revolver found in the wrong hand of the deceased Kirk, pointed towards Jim as the true perpetrator. The revelation baffled the community and law enforcement alike, leading to a swift trial.

Jimmie Whisman [50:20]: "Have to do it."
James Pietragallo [53:53]: "And that was it."*

Trial and Conviction: Justice Served?

Jim Schnick stood trial for the murders of his wife Julie, son Kirk, and his brother-in-law Steve Buckner. Despite a strong defense highlighting his contributions to the community and lack of prior criminal behavior, the jury found Schnick guilty on three counts of murder. Subsequently, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

James Pietragallo [67:11]: "So now we go to sentencing."
James Pietragallo [74:00]: "The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for you, sir."*

Community Aftermath and Lingering Doubts

The aftermath left the Elkland community reeling, struggling to reconcile the image of a beloved community member with the atrocities committed. Over the years, books and investigations have surfaced questioning Schnick’s guilt, suggesting possible miscarriages of justice and exploring alternate theories.

Jimmie Whisman [76:44]: "Jesus, that's bonkers."
James Pietragallo [80:30]: "That's a fucked up story. Let me tell you something bad is what that is. That's horrifying."*

Conclusion: Reflections on Tragedy and Justice

"Seven Murders & One Lie" serves as a poignant reminder of how tragedy can shatter the facade of small-town tranquility. Hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman offer a compelling narrative that not only recounts the events but also invites listeners to ponder the complexities of human behavior, the fragility of community trust, and the often-painful pursuit of justice.

James Pietragallo [78:12]: "And absolutely that new woman move right in. Had to kill them all."
Jimmie Whisman [78:12]: "That's fucked up, man."

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Notable Quotes:

• James Pietragallo [18:06]: "Everything falls on Kirk's shoulders because the other ones are too young."

• James Petregallo [39:00]: "And that's when he said that."

• James Petregallo [53:53]: "And that was it."

• James Petregallo [74:00]: "The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for you, sir."

Final Thoughts

This episode not only explores a chilling true crime story but also underscores the intricate dynamics of small-town life and the unforeseen darkness that can lie beneath seemingly ordinary surfaces. For listeners seeking detailed investigations into tragic events, Episode #582 of Small Town Murder offers a deep dive into one of Elkland's most disturbing cases.

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Note: This summary excludes promotional segments and advertisements to focus solely on the episode's content.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whitman]

That is nice to be able to pop something down on the floor for him that looks like something that you'd put over rice or whatever and eat it yourself.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whitman]

Now back to the show.

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[Jimmy Whitman]

Yay. And choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed. Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm Jimmy Whitman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. On more crazy episode. You can't get any more. I don't know how that came out wrong. On more crazy episode. That is terrible. On another insane episode of small town murder express. 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag. And this week. Wow, is this a lot going on this week. It's a wild story. We will get into that. First of all though, shutupandgivemerder.com is where you get tickets. First of all, get your tickets for the virtual live show. It is April 19th. It's our 4:20 virtual live show. Just like a regular live show except you can be anywhere in the world you want to be that has Internet. You can get it. We'll have the pictures and everything else. We'll wear costumes. And on top of that it is 4:20 so I have a bunch of crazy bongs and things of that nature to scare the crap out of Jimmy. It's going to be a lot of fun.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We're going to go hard.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we're going hard. Can't wait to do that. And also get your tickets for regular live shows while you're there. Chicago, May you are up.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

St. Louis the night before is sold out. Chicago at the Riviera. Get your tickets and for the rest of the year too because we got a bunch of them selling out. San Diego, Grand Rapids, Madison, Portland. So if you want to go to in the second half of the year I would get them. Now that shut up and give me murder.com also. You want Patreon?

[Jimmy Whitman]

There we go.

[James Petregallo]

My goodness. Patreon.com CrimeInSports P A T R E O n you want this? Anybody? $5 a month or above you are going to get just so much stuff. A gigantic back catalog of hundreds of episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. And you my friends get it all. This week what we're going to do here for crime in sports, we're going to talk about the some scams in sports and some cheating scandals. But one particularly is the Spanish Paralympic team, where none of them were disabled in any way, shape or form. Spoiler alert. They did win gold, Is that right? Shocking. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about this documentary and also a book that accompanies it called American Nightmare on Netflix. And it is the craziest story. I've never been on the edge of my seat so much in the story, wondering what's gonna happen. It's like you think it's a Sherry Papini situation with a faked kidnapping, but then you're like, is it real? And it goes. It's crazy. I cannot wait to tell you this story. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well. Jimmy will screw your name all up. Don't you worry about that. That said, I think it's time, everybody, let's all sit back, clear the lungs. Here we go. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

We are going to Elkland, Missouri, this week. Elk land. The land of elk. Here it is, southwestern Missouri. This is kind of not quite no man's land here. It's about 35 minutes to Springfield. But that 35 minutes, it turns real rural. I mean, long 35. It's a long 35. There's nothing going on out here in Elkland. It's, it's definitely. It's farmland out here, a lot of farms. And, and especially back when we're going to talk about it, it's about 35 minutes to Springfield, like we said. Population of this town, 1956. So not too, too small. But they're spread out a good amount, though. I would say under 2,000 people. It's in Webster County. Median household income here is about $61,467 a year, which is in the ballpark of the national average, but not quite.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's named after a president. Yeah. Wasn't there a president of Webster?

[James Petregallo]

Not that I know of. A Webster? No, No. A dictionary, but not a president.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is there a web. What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

No, no. I don't know. I don't know who you think. I'm trying to think. We got a Woodrow Wilson. That's W. That might be the closest. I may be thinking of that. And then median home cost here, $232,100 here. The post office named Elkland has been in operation since 1870. Very simple reason why they called it Elkland. When they showed up, there was elk here. So they were like, well, it's Elkland.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Look at that.

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's it. I don't know if there's any more elk around here, but it's there. In 2018, Elkland resident Helen Viola Jackson. Get ready to do some math here to figure this one out. Was inducted into the Missouri Walk of Fame because she was notable as the last living widow of a Civil War veteran.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We gave a shit about that.

[James Petregallo]

But 2018, how the shit was she still alive? How the hell is that possible? Did she marry a hundred year old man in like 1965 when she was. Yeah, I don't understand when she was like 18. I don't understand Civil War. I don't know how the math works.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Which Civil war? American.

[James Petregallo]

The American Civil War? Not. It's crazy. I don't understand what the fuck. I don't know how that happened. I had to have that in there just for the crazy math there. And it is nearby Marshfield, which we'll talk about in the reviews because that's where the court takes place and it's like seven miles away and kind of where town is basically is the home to the only intersection of the Transamerica bicycle trail and US Route 66.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So yeah, there is a. Yeah, don't.

[James Petregallo]

Get hit by a car on your bike there. Reviews of this town. And like we said, this is going to be Marshfield, which is right next door. The reviews really are similar of what they would probably be for Elkland. Here's five stars. Marshfield is a small town. There are three E's in Marshfield. Everyone knows everything about everybody. The three E's. That's clever. I like that.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm going M A R Y.

[James Petregallo]

What the hell? I know. I was like, how does that work? We have at least 1200 in our high school, yet we still are a close community and come together to help people out. Whether it's churches coming together to make food for those in need, or if it's someone giving a homeless person money to spend. It's a small town to have homeless people. Why are there homeless people here? What's going on? Can't be that many of them. You think you could put them up somewhere? The two guys who you went to high school with probably like help them out.

[Jimmy Whitman]

2000. Yeah, it's gotta be so small.

[James Petregallo]

Four stars. People stay. Okay. People stay. Marshfield is known for the town you hate but never leave. Okay. Four stars though. That's good. People are friendly. But unless you're involved in a church, there is little community. Yeah. Because it's. It's rural. I mean, you're. You're out on your own kind of. There's not a lot of gathering places here. Two stars. Finally. Generally an okay town. Not too grand. People are incredibly rude and terrible drivers. Most kids I graduated with said they want to get out of this town. And I've never agreed more. So. It's a small town people move from. Unless they want to farm or something of that nature or be part of a religious community or be part of the church. I don't know. Things to do here. We have the Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival, which is in Marshfield, by the way. It became. In 2021, they became Sister festivals, which I didn't know they did that. I know they're sister cities, sister festivals with the Peanut Festival in Plains, Georgia, where Jimmy Carter's. From there, members of the committee and auxiliary traveled to Plains for a ceremony. They had a whole ceremony there. Okay. The Cherry Blossom Festival is open to the public. And most events that do not include food or a performance are free. You know, just standing there doing nothing. That's free. The Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival is an annual three day event in the spring that celebrates the city of Marshfield and the state of Missouri. Descendants of presidents of presidents are invited to come share their stories. Like we said, they said. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Cleveland, Ford, Webster. These are just a few of the presidents that have been represented at the Cherry Blossom festivities. Celebrities with ties to Missouri are also invited. They're not gonna show up.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Fucking clout and anything validate us, please come through.

[James Petregallo]

Even relatives of celebrities is like your brother. Have like a show on hgtv. Great. Come on in.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Paul Rudd got a cousin.

[James Petregallo]

Who gives a shit? We don't know he's from this area. Then also there's the Starvey Creek. Starvey Gross. Which is like I'm short for starving. Like feel a little starvey right now. Starvey Creek Bluegrass Festival. So we got that. And there's four bands I have listed here. The little Roy and Lizzie Show. That's a band. The Seldom Scene. Like you're painting a scene. The Seldom Scene. And Dave Adkins. We bring Dave in for special events like this. The Lonesome River Band and then the Larry Stevenson Band will also be performing. You can't have a festival without the Larry Stevenson Band, let's be realistic here. Yeah, there's not a lot going on in this town here I would say, but I don't know, people seem to like it I guess. That said, let's talk about some crazy goddamn murder that happens here.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We have to.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, is this insane? All right, let's go. 1987 is where we're going to do this. Everything kind of takes place in 87. Let's just do 87 here. Let's start with a man, James. Jim Schnick. S C H N I C K Schnik. Now Jimmy Schnick here, He's in his 30s. He's got a dairy farm. He's running a dairy farm. The Schnick dairy farm. That's right. Apparently the Schnick family has been a part of the community for 250 years or so. They've been around this family. Yeah, they've been a lot of farming going on in this area. Jim worked for the volunteer fire department as well. And the postmaster, Jim Jacobs recalled that he once had been a member of the Lions Club as well. Oh, look at that. So Jim Schnick is getting. He's trying to find all the social things he can from a new. A newspaper article said Elkland is the sort of town where everybody knows everybody else. Which is just what the reviewer said too. It has two gas stations, a Lions Club chapter and a Masonic lodge. You join one or both or the volunteer fire department. That's what you do for socializing because there's nothing else going on here. Now he's got a wife, Jim does, named Julie Elizabeth and her non married name is Buckner, maiden name of Buckner, B U C K N E R And she will later be Schnick here. So Julie Schnick, Julie Schnicks comes from this area as well. Her family has a farm a couple miles away. Her brother runs a farm and then her parents also have a farm that she grew up on.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So this is families of farmers, all.

[James Petregallo]

All dairy farming people. Her parents are Alfred and Elizabeth. Now Julie and Jim have two kids. They have eight year old Jamie at this point and six year old Mindy. So these are their kids now they live on their own little dairy farm. Jim, Julie, two kids. Jim, Julie, Jamie, Mindy and then there are, is the Buckner's. These are Julie's relatives, Julie's brother and his family.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Cousins and such?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, just her brother. I mean they live around but her brother Steve lives a couple miles, about six miles away on his dairy farm.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So and with his family. So they're all, they're kind of, you know, right. Next six miles is nothing. And when we're talking farmland, so brothers.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, that's that. He's also a dairy farmer, another dairy farm and he. So this brother is Stephen James Buckner, goes by Steve. He's 35 years old. He's got a wife named Jeanette Ann Buckner. Used to be Bernhard, changed it to Buckner. She's 36. They got married in 1970. They have four kids with them living in this house too. Yeah, they have Stephen Kirk Buckner, he's 14, goes by Kirk, so it goes by the middle name. So it's not confused with his dad's name, I would assume. So he's 14. Then they have Dennis, who's eight. Then they have Timothy, who's Timmy, he goes by Timmy. Six. And then they have a two year old, Michael Brian Buckner as well. This family, boys, all boys. Which if you run a dairy farm, that's great. That ain't bad actually. It's called a workforce is what you're, what you're raising here.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They're called all shifts covered.

[James Petregallo]

They're slowly turning Amish is what they are like. Let's just make as many kids as we can have to deal with this farmland. So yeah, all these kids live here. And so there's six people living in this, in this little farmhouse and they, they kind of extended themselves. Steve extended himself a little bit buying more farmland. So he buys more land. And due to this he's having a hard time paying the bills. It's not easy they're having. After they pay for, you know, food and feed and all that kind of shit, they, there's very little money left over. There's not, no, not a lot of just discretionary spending. The kids don't go out to the movies, they don't go get new school, school clothes every year. There's not a lot of money going around here. This, even though Steve has this over 100 acres, by the way, this dairy farm, even though he has this, the money so tight he has other jobs. He has to do one here, I guess. He had just purchased about 110 acres over the last few years and that's where this is coming from. So he basically leaves his wife and sons in charge of the dairy while he struggles to make a living selling. Selling feed and cattle semen. He's a semen dealer.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, salesman.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's me. I sell semen right there. But the Residents of the town say basically this meant that everything fell on 14 year old Kirk's shoulders. Okay, we'll talk about his wife and Kirk's mom. But at the same time, the other kids are kind of too young to really. Eight is the oldest kid. Eight is a terrible employee. They're awful. They're just not good at shit, you know, nevermind child labor for morality reasons also. They're just bad at it. They're just not good at farming.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Well, didn't they have one older than eight?

[James Petregallo]

They have 14. Kirk is the 14 year old. So everything falls on Kirk's shoulders because.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They don't have any help.

[James Petregallo]

No, the other ones are too young. And we'll talk about mom in a minute here. But they say so not only that, Steve is also. He operates a business that artificially inseminates cows. So, okay, he'll sell you semen.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And you can artificially inseminate the cows. And he also replenishes storage tanks on nearby farms with liquid nitrogen that's used to keep bull semen cold. This guy knows his fucking jizz, man. His farm jizz. He could write an encyclopedia of farm jizz, this guy.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And the temperature with which to keep it fresh.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he knows everything. He is the fucking. The jizz sage over here. That's him. So the Kirk, like we say, the 14 year old, things fall on him. He's a freshman at Marshfield High School. He's entered calves in the local fair, stuff like that. He's a farm boy. He's a little farm kid. He almost drowned two years earlier in 1985 in a local pond. His friend Bill Shoemaker ended up getting a medal from the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission for saving him and pulling him out of the water. Apparently. Yeah. This was two summers ago where Shoemaker, Kirk Buckner and a guy named Darrell Carr, they were fishing on a pond on the farm of Dean Dugan in Elkland. And Buckner went for a swim and almost fucking drowned. Apparently it was July of 1985. And the bill, his friend said, I knew he couldn't swim, so I just went out there and got him. And a neighbor said, if it wasn't for little Billy, Kirk would be gone, he'd be dead.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Almost lost him. Almost swimming. He got in a pond.

[James Petregallo]

Dude, there's swimming holes and everything else. How do you not know how to swim?

[Jimmy Whitman]

I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

And he goes fishing all day.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Fucking don't go impressing friends and shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Why are you going out past where you can stand up so yeah, I guess that's. I guess, you know, that's what happened there. Bill said that. He said there wasn't much else to say about it. We were friends. It was just something between us. And he said, quote, I'd do it again. That's nice. I wouldn't let. I changed my mind. I'd let him drown this time. So. Kirk carries a lot of weight on his shoulders. The weight of a full grown family with a farm. It's all on him. He often handles both the early and late milking of more than 40 cows. So that's morning and evening milkings all by himself. He does the family shopping.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What.

[James Petregallo]

And for the most part is in charge of caring for all three of his younger brothers, including the two year old.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What do mom and dad do?

[James Petregallo]

Well, dad is out semen. He literally, he's out of town all the time. They say like he's not home very often because he's out working. He goes to like distant farms to set up their, you know, to get their semen fridge going up and running. So they said Kirk would return each afternoon from classes at the vocational agricultural program at Marshfield High School, which makes sense for a kid like that. He's going to be a farmer.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I mean, he's already a farmer. He's going to get better and better at this.

[James Petregallo]

He's just going to have to do it. The newspaper article says though that he would come home, quote, to one of the town's few unkempt houses where his heavy set mother, Jan, 36, presided amid the squalor to pile. It's basically. It's bas. Wait till you hear the next line. It's basically who's eating? Gilbert Grape is going on around here. Except no one has down syndrome. What's eating?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Not who's.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, who's eating what's eating? Sorry, 30 year old irrelevant movie. I got the title wrong. This is a guy who mispronounces Pamela and he's gonna fucking correct me.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I know, but it sounds like somebody.

[James Petregallo]

Going down on Gilbert Grape's Ma, who's eating Gilbert Grape? Or, or Gilbert Grape or maybe that. Who knows? Going down on Gilbert Grape. Actually. Was he Gilbert?

[Jimmy Whitman]

I think so. Wasn't he?

[James Petregallo]

I don't remember. I don't fucking remember.

[Jimmy Whitman]

All I know because I can see, I can see Leonardo DiCaprio calling him Gilbert.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Yeah, that's right. Gilbert. And I remember my grandmother being very sad and then being very happy when she saw Titanic because she said, oh my, that boy, he's not he's okay. She, she doesn't understand. She didn't understand acting and she thought he was really. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Pretty good at.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She was so happy when she saw it. Like, that's the boy. Oh, Mario, I'm so happy. He was a handsome young boy and he couldn't, you know, he had the problems.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I remember him saying Gilbert though, saying the bee with his top teeth on the bottom lip. Not Gilbert.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

When he was sad. I hated it.

[James Petregallo]

So the article goes on to say two piles of garbage lay just outside the door. Candy wrappers and old boots were strewn out in front under a five foot maple tree where a ramshackle ladder of two by fours had been nailed to the trunk. Here's a quote from an Elkland resident. Quote, she weighed 300 pounds and never took a bath. Then he said, quote, don't quote me by name. I've got to live here. That's what he said to the newspaper. Never took a bath. That's the main problem.

[Jimmy Whitman]

She's a pig. That's what I want her.

[James Petregallo]

You can be heavy set, but fucking bathe yourself. Jesus Christ. So another neighbor said his dad was never home. It got too much for Kirk. You take a 14 year old and have him go to school and take care of a bunch of kids and milk the cows and that's day after day. I think the boy just had nothing to look forward to. That's how I feel. So Kirk has got problems. Sometimes he'd have to miss school because the farm work was too overwhelming, so he couldn't go to school that day. Jesus Christ. I don't get them. They're going to be all chafed. So other times he would visit neighbors asking them for odd jobs to earn money because he needed money. So he's doing all this and trying to find odd jobs too, like this. This is way too much responsibility for a 14 year old by far. It's crazy. But he never. Apparently he would never bitch to adults. That's the thing. He would only complain to his friends once in a while. But he wouldn't ever complain to the people who could change the situation for him. Although I don't know what could be changed. It's a tough life. They're trying to make ends meet. There's really. Dad can't go all come home and take care of everything because then they lose the farm completely and they have nothing.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Can you give me a slimmer, abler body mother to take care of my brother so that I can do this shit?

[James Petregallo]

At least that one friend One of the guys he was fishing with actually, when he almost drowned, said he complained about milking, getting up so early. And then another kid here said Kirk's father and mother just sat around the house and he was out feeding the cows, milking them. They said this week coming up that he was cutting stuff and told us he was tired. One kid said a bunch of times last summer, Kirk told us, I'm just sick of doing everything around here. And what ends up happening is the dairy business suffers, you know, because a 14 year old isn't capable of running his own dairy farm while he's got school during the day too, unfortunately. Yeah, that's tough. And said it was just too much for a 14 year old to handle the milk because the conditions of the farm were deteriorating because he couldn't keep up with everything. The milk was given a C grade by inspectors.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Meaning a major loss of income because they pay you based on the quality of it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You gotta have grade A milk.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So there were rumors that foreclosures were in the works on the farm and everything like that. So it's a lot. Neighbors near here believe that this kid just. It's a lot on him. One neighbor said more can be put on a person than he can take. And she describes their house as a dirty wood frame house that the Buckners called home. She said he didn't have the kind of life that other children have. He didn't have the money other children had to spend. And other neighbors just said he ran everything. And one neighbor said, you don't turn a farm over to a kid. I saw him working all day long. He did all the milking. He was worked to death. I just think that Kirk had to work harder than a 14 year old boy should have to work. You just can't do that to a kid. So Kirk's life is shit, basically. It's hard, man. It is a hard. This kid's gonna look like he's 45 when he's 21. He's one of those kids just from being working and being beaten down. So September 24, 1987, Kirk goes to the local service station that evening to borrow a carjack from the service station. Such a small town. The service station lets you borrow tools. That's how small of a town it is. Oh, Kirk. Yeah, sure. Just bring it back tomorrow. So everybody describes Kirk as, when he's not farming, he likes to hunt and fish. They say he was friendly, but sometimes he kind of moped around. One person, one of the kids, he Was fishing with, said that he was kind of weird. But then when asked what specifically he was weird with, he said, I don't know, you know, General. General, you know, he's always farming and stuff. That's just weird.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's pretty weird.

[James Petregallo]

The last time this is the Thursday night is when he was putting. He put gas into the farm, into the family farm's tractor at the gas station, got an automobile jack. And another neighbor then observed him chopping greens for the cows to eat. He's busy, so he made a big pile of them to eat. Now the next day, the next morning, I should say September 25, 1987, early in the morning, like a farm early farm morning here there is a phone call from the 8 year old from Jamie. This is Jim and Julie's kid Jamie, not Kirk's brother. That's the Buckner family. So that's the Schnicks. Now Jamie Schnick calls up his grandparents, Alfred and Jean, that's, you know, his mom's parents there to come over to the house because something was wrong. Well, let's see here. Alfred and Gene show up about 6am and they find. They find James Jim Schnick lying in the kitchen with blood all over the place. He's got a gunshot wound to his abdomen and lower leg.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Lying on the kitchen floor. Now they said when they got there, the first cop that arrived said that Schnick was just berserk. He kept saying, don't hurt me, don't hurt me. He fought us, then laid on the floor and passed out, apparently from shock.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, he's doing that shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. When people go into shock and they don't know that it's somebody like an AMT trying to help them and they're just.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You almost can't take anything they say and like value it and pay it for anything that matters because it's just lunacy.

[James Petregallo]

Their mind is completely fucked at that. Shock will screw your whole head up now.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They look around and Jean Buckner, the Gene Buckner here, the mom, Julie's mom, went into the bedroom and found Julie in her bed with two bullet wounds in her forehead.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Dead.

[James Petregallo]

Dead. Mom's dead? Yeah, she's. Julie was only 30 years old here, I guess she was shot twice at close range in the forehead as she slept. Never knew. She's still in her sleeping pose. Never knew what happened. Now back out in the living room a few feet from where Jim Schnick was freaking out and going berserk and going into shock. Kirk's body is laying there. He's dead. Young Kirk, he didn't even live here. Nope. 14 year old Kirk, he'd been shot three times. Kirk in the chest, neck and back. And he'd been stabbed twice.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

Kirk is very dead. A.22 caliber revolver is found in Kirk's right hand as he lay there dead. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about our safest sponsors. Simply safe. And everyone has routines that you go through, make you feel good, make you feel secure, like you have control over the world. And a lot of times you don't. But you do. If you're us and it's on, your routine includes arming your SimpliSafe home security system, you know that's gonna do well for you. So when we're heading out, both of us, we both have them in our houses, our studios. You lock up for the night. Yeah. This simple step does more than just protect you. Gives you peace of mind. You're going to feel good about leaving and you're going to know it's going to be the same when you get back. You'll sleep more soundly. I can leave the house with confidence. And it's amazing how a push of a button can give you that kind of confidence. And with SimpliSafe, we love it. Like I said, it's in our studios, in our homes. It's really easy to install too. You can get professional installation also, but if we can put it up, you can put it up. Put it that way. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com/S I M P L I safe.comsmall there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And now back to the show.

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[James Petregallo]

So they. Alfred Buckner. This is Julie's dad. The grandparents here, they asked what happened. And once Jim Schnick got know his shit together a little bit, he said Kirk came in the door shooting.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Kirk snapped? Yeah, he said Kirk snap came in the door shooting. So the police arrived here. Webster County Sheriffs, they arrive and luckily the two Schnick children, Jamie and Mindy, this eight and six year old were stay slept. They're sleeping still unharmed. Completely unharmed. Sleeping in their beds.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Hmm.

[James Petregallo]

Well, not sleep. They were sleeping. One called the cog called everybody. But they were fine. They slept through this. All the first shots were heard in the area at 4:55am okay, so a couple hours ago, an hour ago, they weren't at this house either. We'll talk about. Yeah, around 7:15am the cops are obviously going looking through this scene. There's two dead people, two kids and a wounded man. They said, well, Kirk came from his house. We have to go tell his house what the fuck's going on. Yeah, those cows, their udders are gonna burst otherwise.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy, they've gotta be engorged by now.

[James Petregallo]

So they send one of the cops to the Buckner home to do a notification and kind of see what the hell's going on over there. So inside the home, here is the description here from a newspaper. The inside of the home is cluttered. Dirty clothes cover the floor and uneaten food spoils on the kitchen table. Apparently, Kirk didn't have time for his housework that day either. Also, like, he didn't have time to vacuum and shit because he's doing everything else. The body of Michael, the baby. No. 2 years old, was found in a playpen in the living room where he was sleeping among a pile of stuffed animals.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Mm.

[James Petregallo]

It's fucking horrible. Timmy and Dennis Buckner are still in their beds. Each had been shot twice in the head.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What the shit?

[James Petregallo]

All the kids are dead in the house.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They're all dead.

[James Petregallo]

They're all dead.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I mean, the whole family, they're all dead.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, everybody's dead. That was. We'll find out here. So, yeah, so that's the three young children there. And then Kirk's dead in the house over here. So all four of their kids are dead.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Dennis and Timmy were asleep together on the top of a bunk bed when they were shot. God damn it. That's Fucking horrible, man. They said a pillow sodden with blood sat propped up on the headboard, which was decorated with a garbage pail. Kid detail, very 1980 decal. A crayon rendering of a giraffe signed Timmy hung on the wall.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Both were shot in the head two times each. The sheriff said. Then they think Kirk walked down to the barn where his mother was milking.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Apparently she was out there and she is dead. Also shot out by the. In the barn. They find her out there. Yeah. Which is obviously crazy. She'd been shot once in the head. So now everybody is dead. One guy's wounded. We haven't found Stephen Buckner yet.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Where's dad?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, where's dad? Well, they ended up finding him on a road selling semen. He was just roadside semen. He had a Styrofoam cooler and he was just like, who needs it? They find him on a gravel road near a cemetery. Right by a cemetery that runs between the Schnick and Buckner Farms. There's a gravel road that connects them.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He's dead there.

[James Petregallo]

He is dead. He was shot as he sat in the cab of his pickup truck.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They said, oh, God damn.

[James Petregallo]

He'd been shot twice in the head and his body was dumped near the local cemetery, they said, because there's blood all in the pickup truck. So he was shot while he was in the cab, but his body is. His body is dumped kind of on the outside gates of a cemetery.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's wild.

[James Petregallo]

When you get a chance, put that in the ground, too, if you can.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Did this, huh? That's what they assume.

[James Petregallo]

So in the pickup cab was the uniform and the red helmet that Steven Buckner wore as a member of the volunteer fire department. He also had a shotgun, a box of shells and a hunting knife in there. So, yeah, he had to be shocked.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This, where he was found, is exactly. Pretty much halfway between the two homes. So this is a fucking. This is insane.

[Jimmy Whitman]

This is nuts, man. This is two families.

[James Petregallo]

There is seven destroyed. There's seven dead people right now, including the. Yeah, you know, the murderer here. So that's. It's a lot going on. But that's not the end of this by any stretch.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Can't be.

[James Petregallo]

So the news media hears about this slaughter at two farms, they go bonkers. I mean, fucking bonkers, man. It's a lot. So this is how they think it went down. Based on everything and based on what Jim Schnick told them and based on what the scenes tell them here, they seem to think the Boy just snapped. Kirk, he snapped. He couldn't take it anymore. He said, fuck it, I'm done. Killed his mother, they think first outside, then went in and killed his two brothers, then his little brother. And then Steve, they think somehow was either coming home from something or about to leave to go somewhere. And he went out, shot him in the truck, drove the truck to the cemetery, dumped him off there. That's what they think, which is about three miles away. Then he had driven to the Schnick farm with his dad's truck covered in blood and. Yep. Killed his aunt. And before he got to the kids or anything else, they think that Jim, because Jim said that he was unaware that anything was going on in the house. He came in from his morning milking and took off his boots.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And sees what was going on. It was just before 6am, it was dark in the house. And apparently Kirk came up and fired at him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And that's when he said that. Hit him in the leg. And so he got a hole. He stumbled into the kitchen because it's small. Grabbed a knife and just lunged at Kirk from a close range and stabbed him in the chest, which actually pierced his heart.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Then after two stab wounds and weakened him, obviously, Jim says he grabbed for the gun and shot him. He said, I don't know, at least twice I shot him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And leaving powder burns on his stomach as well. Yeah. A bullet in Buckner, this Kirk's neck. So there's a bullet in his neck and another that entered his side, pierced his lung and heart.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Okay, so that's two that are good.

[James Petregallo]

His heart's been pierced twice here, so he was very dead. Now they said about Kirk's gun that he had in his hand, they said he had to reload at least once. They described the weapon as a little cheapy. 22 Saturday Night Special that had been registered in Jan buckner's name in 1981. It's his mom's gun he took.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Now they said, we think Kirk Buckner killed his three brothers first. They said maybe possibly starting with Michael, who was found in the playpen in the living room. And the cop said, I don't understand. Oh, this is. One of Kirk's friends actually said this I don't understand about the two year old. Kirk was so close to him. He played with him all the time. He was like, why would he kill his little brother? He can't even be a witness. Like you could kill people in front of a two year old. It doesn't matter. So they said it wasn't until Jim Schnick had been admitted to the hospital in Springfield that he learned that his wife had been killed. He said he just came in and struggled with. He had no idea about his wife, kids, anything. He never got past being shot in the living room, basically. So he's listed in fair condition in the hospital. So everybody's going, why, why, why do this? Why kill everybody? Run away if you have. Don't kill everybody. So they don't know. They say that it's a financially strapped family, he carries too big of a load and maybe he just snapped. They don't know. The Webster County Sheriff, Eugene Fraker, who's the first guy on the scene and the guy who's gonna stick with this case throughout it says he was not the macho type, not the Rambo type. He was a very meek child. Some people keep it bottled up inside. I guess there may be something more behind it. Hopefully we'll find out in the next few days. Now, Grandpa, who was Alfred, who found all this mess? He was the one who found his dead daughter, which is horrible.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

He's now lost a daughter, a son, a daughter in law, four grandsons because he's, you know, all these people are dead. All these people are his family, you know. He said Kirk was your average 14 year old. Didn't know he had any problems. He didn't voice any complaints. He said Kirk was raised on a farm. He also bailed hay and raked all summer for some of the neighbors and me. So he said he was used to hard work. That wasn't. It wasn't like he was, you know, coddled. And then all of a sudden they said, now you're working 14 hours a day on a farm, like. Said he could handle it. He said, as for the boy's relations with his father and uncle, he said, the Sunday before, we were all out on a private picnic together. All played ball. Kirk, his brothers, his cousins. None of this makes sense. He didn't seem mad at anybody. He said he joked and kidded with his father. He thought the world of his little brothers. That's what makes it so hard to understand. I wish I had some idea. It would help my mind. These people just don't know how to deal with this. He said he can't condemn his grand. His grandson. He can't condemn him. He said, I thought a lot of the boy. I have no ill feeling. And yeah, one of the neighbors said, when something like this happens, we pull together. He said, it may sound strange to you. But in Elkland, they just throw down some coffee cans on a cafe counter and people put money in to help with funeral costs. We're taking care of things the best we can, trying to be a family here. So Kirk remembered as a mild mannered kid who liked to hunt and fish like everybody else around here. A cattle breeder who lives in the area named Archie said, Kirk asked me last week to take him dove hunting. I was too busy. Makes you feel like a heel.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Makes you feel pretty bad.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty bad. Another neighbor said, it's unbelievable. It doesn't seem real that that many lives could be gone. He always acted as if he wanted to do something for somebody or himself. He was just a boy trying to get through life. I don't know what snapped in him. We never will or maybe we never will. They say a lot of these people here. One kid, the Darryl Carr who was with him, and that's the kid who, by the way, said he was a little weird. And then they said, how? And he said, I don't know. He said the next day at school, he was mad because all the kids are talking about this. And he said, I told the kids at school to shut up. I told them he wasn't the one who did it. I just walked out of school. When I came home, I saw what was happening around here and I just started crying. So he can't take it that his friend that he likes, you know, did this. Another friend also left school. He had planned to go hunting with Kirk today. They had plans. He says, quote, he had a new gun and he wanted to show it off.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Kirk did.

[James Petregallo]

Kirk did. I think he did showed it off. Yep. He said, it surprised me a lot. There had to be more to it than anybody thinks right now. The principal of the high school said, of course the kids were shocked. It's been traumatic for some. Most of the older students didn't know him, but most of the freshman class did. One of his best friend said that they drifted apart. It's the one who saved him from drowning in the recent months. But he said, not for any real reason. We just kind of got with other guys. That sounds different than he wanted it to come out, I think. And he was like, hey, don't print that. If you could let me say that again. They're like, no, no, that'll work.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It was live. It's already up.

[James Petregallo]

He said, but we still saw each other and said hi and stuff. He said Kirk stopped by from time to time to see him and the talk would turn to hunting, which Was Kirk's big passion. He said he'd always ask me to go out coyote hunting. He said we'd go out late at night and listen for the coyotes and track them down, but they never actually went. Now, on the last day before this, the 24th, the day before the murders, Kirk, for some reason, went to hang out with his friend again that he hasn't hung out with in a while. Bill. He said he was acting real weird. He hung around me all day. We even went to lunch together, and we hadn't done that in a long time. He said they didn't talk much the whole time. They hung out all day but didn't talk much. And he said he was puzzled by Kirk's sudden interest in being his friend again. He didn't understand it. And then he came back to school the next day and learned that Kirk slaughtered his family that morning. So he didn't understand it at all. He said, I'm going to miss him. He was a good friend. I have a lot of good memories with him, he said. And then the article says, then Bill, quote, left to ride his motorcycle. He said he wanted time to think. He's 14. Just me in the wind on my motorcycle when I'm 14. What the hell is happening here? Now, the junior high principal, the school he went to, the junior high before high school, Said the killings were out of character for Kirk. He said, I knew him pretty well. He didn't get in trouble. He was one of the kids I enjoyed talking to because I felt that I was getting through to him. He described him as a country boy and not a top student, but one that would, quote, give you an honest effort in class. Not the brightest bulb, but he'll try hard. He'll try hard. He'll get. If b is what he gets, that's the best he can do. And that's fine.

[Jimmy Whitman]

The boy's doing his damn best.

[James Petregallo]

He's doing his level best. That's what I say. So another Bill Roberts, a teacher who taught an agricultural class that Kirk was in, said he also knew the boy from the county fair where he had shown cattle. He said, he was your average kid. You wouldn't pick him out of a crowd as someone different from other students. And he said, I didn't see any behavioral changes in him over the last few weeks. He said, I didn't see anything building up in him at all. So they're. They're trying to figure this out. Like, is there an escalation? Have you. Has he been saying, I'm going to Shoot my fat mother in the forehead when I get home and, you know, fuck my other family too. The school superintendent said there's just no answers. That's what's so surprising to the principal, his teachers and the students. There was nothing to show a reason for this. He was no problem at school. Okay. Now Jim's at the hospital.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Turns out his wounds are not that severe.

[Jimmy Whitman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. Turns out he's got pretty much a graze to his abdomen and he's got a gunshot in the leg. Now, one of the deputies that comes in, and again, small town, this is a problem. One of the investigating deputies, this is one of the first two officers to arrive at the scene. And the guy who, who went to the Buckner house and found all of them, Deputy Rowe, he shows up at the hospital to question Jim, accompanied by his wife. He brings his wife. No, no. Jim's wife is dead. This guy brings his wife to a. To this. No. And Roe told him, I'm your friend, but I'm here as the deputy sheriff, so I gotta talk to you here. And they said he seemed alert and conversant. He proceeded with the interview in which he said that he had been assaulted by an intruder, which he found out was Kirk. He also said that he has been having. Not Kirk, Jim has been having an extramarital affair going on. So he thought maybe it was somebody who was mad about that, but it wasn't. And he's had a long standing feud with Steve Buckner. And we'll find out why that is in a minute. But he gave his accounts the same thing. He said he came in and shot at me. And that was that. So when paramedics arrived at the Schnick home and they found the pistol in Kirk's right hand on the floor, the thing that perplexed them was Kirk was left handed. Most people shoot with their dominant hand. With their dominant hand. So they're like, that's odd. But you know, who knows? They said it's quite possible. It's pretty hard to pick up a gun in either hand when you're dead, is what the guy said. So the cops, he's like, who knows? So they're questioning all of Kirk's. Everybody's relatives here. And like I said, there's nothing weird. The only other question, they have guns in the wrong hand. And how the fuck does it. Kirk weighs 91 pounds. How does a 91 pound boy load his over 250 pound father into a pickup truck and dump him in a cemetery? How the fuck do you do that. That's. I mean, maybe some farm equipment, who knows? So the editor and publisher of the Marshfield Mail newspaper said it was quite, it's quite easy to believe the story that Kirk Buckner has, has done. Looked like the boy did it. It looked pretty conclusive. They do an autopsy on Kirk. They find out that he'd been shot through the heart, stabbed through the heart. They said either wound would have been almost instantaneously fatal. So the gunshots were not necessary, didn't.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Have to do it.

[James Petregallo]

No. Now, two days after the murders, two days after, things start to get a little bit weird. Number one, Jim, they found out that his wounds were not severe enough to even war. His wounds were only severe enough to warrant an overnight stay in the hospital and release him the next morning. But he told doctors he didn't want to be released, wanted to stay.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Keep me?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, keep me. Once he was released from the hospital, he went to the. To his wife's parents house and was who were taking care of the kids at that point. So he moves into their house on October 1, 1987, Jim talks to the cops again because they're like, now that you're, you know, out of a hospital bed here, let's do this. So he does and he gives a pretty similar account, but a little more elaborate of what happened from the first account. Now during this time he's on medication, using a walker because he got shot in the leg. He complained of pain, but he told officers it'd be no problem going to talk to them. So he was permitted to prop his leg up and stop for water, go to the restroom and all that kind of shit here. It lasted about two hours. The interview they wanted to ask him, they wanted him to do a polygraph examination. Would you just do that? And he said, yeah, but can we do it a different day? Because I'm in a lot of pain. I've been sitting here for two hours. Can we come in? And you know, my leg hurts, basically. So they said, yeah, yeah, we'll do it in a few days then. No worries. It's at this point that the fraker, he is the cop who showed up first, he starts being a little suspicious.

[Jimmy Whitman]

A little nosy now, huh?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said at the time, when I found him in the shot on his own kitchen floor, he said that's great. He said he a little thing that didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but now looking back, he said he was overacting. He said he was thrashing about wildly as if delirious from grief and his wounds, two men had to pin his arms to the floor while a paramedic worked on him. And when they let go, he continued to writhe, but never tried to get up.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, that's weird.

[James Petregallo]

That's weird. He said. He was thrashing about, but it was like a little bantam rooster wanting to be held back from a fight.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I've never seen that before.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what that means. I've never been in a cockfight. I haven't been live at a cockfight, so I'm not sure what that means, but I'm sure it's not good. He said another thing that he said. Jim's voice was very weak. He said that didn't seem unusual at the time, but then when the medical report came in that he wasn't shot that much. He wasn't that injured.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Shot that much?

[James Petregallo]

Shot that much. He said the abdomen was a flesh wound. He said, a bullet in your leg doesn't make you lose your voice.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, is that what. What is he doing?

[James Petregallo]

He's like, that's weird. I got shot. He's like, I'm shot. Yeah, I'm weak. I'm weak. So at that point, he called the Missouri Highway Patrol Criminal Division and asked for help. And the guy, the sergeant there who got the call said, I was wondering when you were gonna call. So they said. Piece by piece, the evidence came in, and it became more apparent that what we first assumed was wrong. The lab report discovered a crucial piece of evidence in the pocket of James Schnick's clothes, and that is a.22 caliber. They found evidence that he had dealt with the pistol. They don't say what it is. We don't know if it's a round or something, but that he at some point had the.22 pistol. He had had access to it.

[Unknown]

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[James Petregallo]

The gun is in Kirk's wrong hand. And of course the basically the father was 30ft off the road, so someone would have had to drag his 200 bastard 75 pound carcass 30ft off the road. Now, October 5, 1987, the funerals all take place. Jim's too fucked up to go to the funerals. Obviously he's too injured. Here, this is polygraph time. So he is told of certain physical evidence that was inconsistent with his initial account and that they don't believe him. So then he gives two completely different accounts that are different from each other and different from his first accounts. In one version, he claimed to have been abducted by Kirk and Steve. Okay, now it's getting crazy. In the next account, he. He claimed that Kirk kidnapped him. He was kidnapped by a 90 pound child. So he takes the. They're sitting him down for the polygraph. He's in a wheelchair, complaining of pain, but he agrees to take the polygraph. Here they explain the polygraph test, telling him that it could be terminated at any time and he's free to leave whenever he wants. He read aloud a form consenting to the polygraph, waving his Miranda rights, signed the form. Then as they're starting to attach the shit to him for the polygraph, he says, don, I think we better stop. I don't think I want to take the test. I'm just so scared.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I don't want to do it.

[James Petregallo]

So this cop talks to the other cop who'd been monitoring this interview, and they agreed that they don't believe his stories at all.

[Jimmy Whitman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

So he comes back and they say, look, you got inconsistencies in your earlier stories. We don't think you're being truthful. If you want us to believe anything you fucking said, you better hook up to the machine. So he said, let me tell you a different version of what happened. Version number four or five, now I'm not sure. And they said, well, that sounds pretty goddamn incredible. And he said, okay, here's what really happened. And then told a completely different version of it. At that point, they're starting to look at each other and go, do we just put the cuffs on him now or what the fuck did he do?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Apparently at that point they said, we think you did all of this. And started to start going through it with him. And he would confirm the statements as they would do it. Yep. Yep. Then he started to recount to them how he killed all seven of them.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He killed everybody.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

They said, he told us he did it. He set it up to make people think his nephew did it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's fucked up, man. But why?

[James Petregallo]

They said once we had the statement from him, there was no sense in putting him on the machine on the lie detector. So he repeated it again, then gave a final statement on videotape after being Mirandized again. And throughout the time, access to water, bathroom allowed to take his medication. This is how they think it really happened. They think that Kirk went to the Schnick house at about 4am Armed with the.22 just because he had it on him. He added on him around the farm. There was a struggle. They or they think that Steven came over there armed with the.22 because they have had a beef. Okay, we'll talk about that. Or he came over to help with something. Or who the fuck knows why. They don't know why, but there was a struggle. He killed Buckner Steven and dumped him at the cemetery, then continued on to the Buckner house and killed the whole family. Kirk was the only one dressed, probably doing chores. And police say now that he might have died trying to save his family. They said he probably tried to protect his family. He took care of those children. He loved his brothers. They presume that Julie Schnick is the last one to die. And he didn't kill his own kids either. He left his two kids alive. Jamie and Mindy were alive in there. So he said he killed Steve Buckner at his house, then went to the Buckner house where he killed Jan Buckner, then all four of the sons, then returned home with Kirk's corpse in the car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And killed his wife. And he said. They said, well, what did you. What was your big beef with Steve? What happened? They said, well, when Steve and Julie were kids, Steve raped her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So he killed him because of the rape.

[James Petregallo]

And his four children. Him and anything that sprung forth from his loins, apparently. And that created marital problems for both families. And he was mad that Steve neglected his four sons, so he said, I'll just kill them all instead.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So then why kill your own wife?

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing, man. Well, that's where the money comes in. She has a $50,000 insurance policy. She's the only one that has one, too. Now, the Webster County Sheriff, Eugene Fraker, said publicly, quote, the Buckner boy is innocent of everything. He had no part in this.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He had nothing to do with it.

[James Petregallo]

So the motive is the thing that they can't figure out. All they can figure out is there's a fucking bad blood and there's a $50,000 insurance policy on Julie's life. The cop said, love's a funny thing. I don't know if we'll ever know exactly what happened. They said he didn't really explain it, why it happened. He only explained that it happened. They even said, I don't know if it was a long range plan or what. There is the wills and insurance to consider. There are several motives, but I don't want to comment on them in detail.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, because what if he did this? Like the. Like the Beltway Killer who just killed all these people just to kill his ex wife?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Whitman]

In this particular instance, his actual wife.

[James Petregallo]

His actual wife. So I'll kill all these kids, too. We don't know. They said the most tragic thing would be if we didn't clear Kirk Buckner's name. Yeah. So in court, Jimmy, he shows up. Holy fuck. Wearing overalls in court. No, he had. Dude, I'll post it on social media. You absolutely want to see this. It is our second time of someone knowingly that we know wore overalls in court. But he shows up in court in fucking overalls and a white T shirt. It's not a good look for court.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's a man that is counting on you to set him free so he can get back to work.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, that's It. I got stuff to do this afternoon, so I figure if I could leave. He's up for the death penalty, by the way. And the prosecutor said, if there ever were a death penalty case, I would think this would be the one.

[Jimmy Whitman]

This is it, man.

[James Petregallo]

He killed fucking four kids, for Christ's sake. Monster killed a two year old. They said in a little town like this, everyone's a relative. Everybody was kind of relieved to find out the boy didn't do it. Nobody really wanted to find out about Mr. Schnick because he had a lot of friends, too. Yeah, nobody wanted their friend to be the one responsible for it. They say, though, they think it's most important that the boy who was killed not be branded a killer. Please don't do that. They keep saying in the paper. Please, please, we're sorry. There's an article from the St. Louis Post Dispatch here that says the freshman and junior varsity football teams of Marshfield High School were playing a road game at Bolivar, Missouri, Monday night. When word spread that police had mistakenly blamed Kirk for. For killing his family, the students relayed their feelings. The principal said, most of them said, basically, we told you we didn't do it. A lot of the people, the kids are like, what the fuck? The principal said, my own gut feeling about it is the students never really did believe Kirk did it. One neighbor said that she never believed Kirk murdered six people and got killed. She said that never ever. She said, I thought I'd feel a lot better about this knowing that he didn't do it, but I really don't. Said it's bad enough the whole thing happened, but Kirk won't be blamed for it. That's good. It's just awful to think what Kirk went through before he died.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, no shit.

[James Petregallo]

Now this is their next door neighbor to the Buckner family. She says she didn't believe it and never would believe that he did it. She said, I knew his whole family. I knew how they were when they were together. There was no way he was capable of this at all. So they said they felt some relief when a Missouri Highway Patrol officer came to question her a few days after the killings and the investigation implicated Jim Schnick instead. And she said, I was so relieved that somebody was checking into this and not just forgetting it and just saying, well, the killer's dead. Fuck it. That's what happens now. His best friend. Kirk's best friend, B.J. lawson, said he hopes that Kirk's name is finally cleared now. He said they just knew he couldn't do nothing like that. He said, because he never lost his temper. The maddest he ever got. He'd say a couple cuss words and that's it. He said everybody knows he didn't do it. But people who didn't know him, they probably thought he was some kind of weirdo. He was an all around nice guy. He'd do anything for just about anybody. Nice guy. So trial comes up here for Jim. Four of the murder counts are dismissed by the state before the trial with no explanation. So the charges are Julie Kirk and the two year old. Those are who he's charged with killing. That's it. Which makes the others or what? They're all in the same. Do you think someone different killed the other kids in the bed and then somebody else killed the kids in the living. It's a crazy thing. I don't know why that is, but that's how it goes. Now, the testimony here, you get the wife of the deputy who went to visit him in the hospital and question him. She. She testifies. Yeah, she's way too involved in all this shit. I don't want to know. This is crazy. They said, do you consider yourself to be a friend of James Schnick? And she said yes. So there was that. Also firefighters here saying that Schnick was one of their best volunteers. They said said Schnick got most of the donated items sold at an auction last year to benefit firefighters. Oh, well, let's just let him go then.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He bought everything because he's such a good guy.

[James Petregallo]

He collected the items, he got the donations.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, he went and brought them to.

[James Petregallo]

He brought them to be. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, he's a.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So he did his job.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So what are we doing here? Let's let him go. John Arthur Sparkman of Republic, that's a town, said that Schnick lived with his family at one time. Sparkman's son and Schnick worked cattle and hogs together. He said Jim was a good worker. I never had any questions when I loaned him my trucks and machinery. Great. He killed fucking four kids. What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Return the shit he borrowed, James.

[James Petregallo]

But Jesus Christ, you lend this guy a weed whacker, it's coming back full of fucking.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He had any Blockbuster late fees? James, he's a good man.

[James Petregallo]

He's a good guy. He's coming back with the oil mixed properly and everything. It's filled up. Gas and oil mixed. He said with that. They said that he wasn't. They asked this one guy and he said he wasn't aware of an affair that Schnick had cause they said, were you aware of it? And they said, would that have changed your opinion of him as a father if you knew about it? And the guy said, yes, it would have. I don't know what difference that makes, but. Verdict comes in here. Less than two hours of deliberation, not much. He's found guilty of all three counts of murder. So now we go to sentencing. Four murders or three, Seven murders and he's.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Four others.

[James Petregallo]

Three. So they get a psychologist here in the sentencing stage to testify that Jim Schnick is unlikely to do this again. Well, yeah, because he killed everybody he's related to. The fuck else is he gonna shoot? Nobody left. So they said this psychologist did a battery of psychological tests on Schnick that showed he suffered from organic brain damage that hampered his verbal reasoning, comprehension and memory. They said the records show that Schnick offered. Suffered from traumatic head injuries at some points in his life here, which I don't know if that's just farm work or what you get kicked in the head by an animal every once in a while. I don't know. So Foster, who. That's the guy who did this all the doctor who's chief of psychology at the Federal Medicine center in Rochester, Minnesota. Interviewed him for hours, interviewed all his friends and everything like that. He says that Schnick denies and represses the killings. He didn't do it. He doesn't know what you're talking about now. Doesn't get it. Yep. He described. I call it lying is what that is. I call it lying. It's a different name. It's not a psychological medical term, but I think it works. Lying. Yeah. He described Schnick as a very compulsive person who likes an orderly life, has strong held moral values. That's why he cheats on his wife and shoots his fucking Shoots a two year old.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Whole family. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Very high moral standards here. And helps others. He said in Mr. Schnick's case, the axe of that night were so far removed from his life, his earlier life, that he repressed the axe. He was repulsed by the axe, as was I. Well, I would hope you would be.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Nobody I know reveled in it.

[James Petregallo]

No. He then said it's unlikely that Jim will display this behavior again. And you know, he won't kill seven people again. So, you know, that's all he said he had the conditions. He had. Schnick's family background, he said, disagreements with his brother in law. All of this perfect storm of Shit. Probably wouldn't ever happen again. So, you know, he's fine.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Probably.

[James Petregallo]

You know, I can't. I'm not a genie here, but, you know, I can look into my crystal ball and figure it out. What do I look like here? So in describing his past, the psychologist said that Schnick's father and brother weren't loving and supportive. Oh, so kill everybody. That makes sense. Schnick, who had learning problems since birth and but a higher than average mechanical aptitude and ability, sought approval by hard work and high moral values. He said that Schnick left home as a teenager because of a strict father. And he also describes him as a hard worker who frequently helped others, including strangers. One boyhood friend with whom Schnick had double dated recalled times when Schnick helped stranded motorists. Oh, well, then let's just put him back out on the street.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He helped change a tire, jumped a car.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He also said that Schnick wouldn't fight back in disagreements, but would go elsewhere and seek attention and approval through aiding others. That's what he said. Rather than fight, he'll go off and try to help people and make himself feel better. Most people have outlets to express their anger, but Schnick felt cornered by pressure and didn't have any way to cope with it, the psychologist said. He also goes on, and this is kind of true. Unlike other mass killers who this guy's examined, he said, this guy has no background of abuse or crimes. He's not a criminal. He has no back.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So that makes him much more dangerous.

[James Petregallo]

Why? There's not even a predictor. It's just out of nowhere he did this. He said, I will have to say something that's unusual with Mr. Schnick is he doesn't have the antisocial behavior of many serial killers. The defense attorney here has said that he has the capacity to lead a productive life in prison. She believes that in the work ethic, philosophy and relationships that Schnick would make a good role model for other prisoners because they love people who kill babies. Who doesn't look up to that guy? You know what I mean? Well, he might probably has the most bodies of anyone in there, so maybe they will look up to him in prison. Who knows?

[Jimmy Whitman]

They certainly hold him on a pedestal.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. They said, I don't know if they'll be raping him atop that pedestal, but something will be going on. They said that. The doctor said, my concern would be his naivete. Even despite the acts for which he's been accused, he's still Naive in many ways. Now, closing arguments here. The prosecutor said that Alfred and Gene Buckner, they no longer have their entire family. Said these families have suffered losses that can't be compensated for. Losses they'll have to live with for the rest of their lives. They said they won't have any holiday family, nothing. Alfred and Gene Buckner will never be familiar with the idea of having their daughter or son walk up to them and hug them. They'll never know the satisfaction of their daughter coming up and saying, I love you, or their son saying, I love you. The victims had both hopes and dreams. Anyone who would kill an infant under these circumstances deserves the most serious punishment provided by law. They said that his helpfulness, that's all good and dandy in his tire changing and everything, but they said that agony suffered by the survivors can't overcome a hundred lifetimes of good deeds. Yeah, I don't care how many tires you change, you're not doing this. No.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You don't think so?

[James Petregallo]

His lawyer argued for life in prison, saying the murders represent a terrible loss to the area, but said, but Alfred and Jean Buckner have two grandchildren left. He didn't kill all of them. They said the children have a father left and those children love their father. She said that vindictive punishment wouldn't be appropriate. She said, there's no mercy in this courtroom for James Schnick. There's no mercy in this courtroom because life in prison for James Schnick will be extremely hard. They said maybe he'll be a role model, put him in prison. Said that I would ask you. Then the prosecutor rebutted by saying, I would ask you. What mercy did he show Kirk Buckner? What mercy did he show Michael Buckner? What mercy did he show for his own wife? He's been portrayed as a man who loves kids. He should be portrayed as a man who killed four kids, including three who were sleeping in their beds. Eight men, four women. On the jury. They decide because the jury recommends to the judge and then the judge has final say. In Missouri back then. So they say they recommend death. The jury recommends death. The judge has final say, though here. They said the judge will consider it and it'll come back in a couple of days. Now they come back. If he is sentenced to death, they'll be the 57th man on death row in Missouri State Penitentiary. No one had been executed since 1965 in Missouri, though.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's been a minute.

[James Petregallo]

This is 87. The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for you, sir.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Got him.

[James Petregallo]

You Got. I don't know. I mean, this. Like I said, if there's a death penalty, killing a sleeping two year old is pretty bad. That's pretty bad.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We got 20 years of people in line ahead of you, so just go sit down.

[James Petregallo]

So the defense attorney said, I was trying to prepare for other things instead of the ultimate outcome. So. 1990, by the way, there's a fucking. A big accident here with their family. To Alina Aline Schnick, the driver of a car apparently ran a stop sign at the intersection of Missouri highways 13 and 215, and she was killed. And other members of the killed. Sharon Schnick's children. Katerina Schnick, 19 months old. Jennifer Schnick, 5 years old. Oh, my God. Kimberly Ducker, 9 years old, all killed in this accident.

[Jimmy Whitman]

The Schnick family.

[James Petregallo]

The Schnick family is getting wiped the fuck out. 1991, he appeals. He said he was deprived of his freedom because he was in the hospital, and thus Miranda was required. The law says no, you were a victim at the time. You were in the hospital. And just because you couldn't move because you were in the hospital doesn't mean you were held. You could have told the cops to get the fuck out of your room and they would have had to go. End of story. So also jury selection. Okay. They asked the defense attorney, asked a juror or a potential juror during voir dire. Do you think because they are law enforcement officers, they're entitled to more believability than others? This guy said, not necessarily, but you know them and the job they've done, and you believe them before you would a stranger because he knew one of the cops. The potential juror knew the Roe guy who went with his wife to the hospital.

[Jimmy Whitman]

There's 1900 people here. You're gonna know somebody.

[James Petregallo]

That's the problem. The Missouri Supreme Court, based on that, overturns the conviction, reverses it. Then on May 1, 1992, Jim pleads guilty to the three counts of murder and is agreed to that he is sentenced to. You, sir, may still fuck off. Three life sentences, consecutive. No chance for parole. You're going forever. And also part of the plea agreement is that he will never, never be prosecuted for the other four murders as well. In 2000, there's a book called Murder in the Heartland that comes out that has, I guess, a bunch of different stories. And this is one of them. It's the only way you can get it is $75 for a used paperback on Amazon.

[Jimmy Whitman]

God.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus, that's bonkers Then in 2016, a book called no justice. The Jim Schnick story. An in depth investigation reveals the innocence of a man sentenced to die for seven, seven family side murders in Webster County. Based on a true story. Someone wrote a book, 257 page book that's only in like two libraries in Arkansas. Because I tried to find it, saying he's innocent.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Arkansas people are buying it.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. May 11, 2024. So not even a year ago at the south central correctional center in Licking. That's his town, Licking, Missouri. Licking, Missouri. It's better than Licking, Arkansas, I guess. I don't want to lick Arkansas. You don't know where Arkansas has been. James Schnick, 73, pronounced dead.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, he beat the. Beat the sentence.

[James Petregallo]

He beat it. Well, he got life. So that was it. The all of the dead family members. By the way, the murdered family members are buried at the timber ridge cemetery in Marshfield. And there you go, everybody. That's elkwan.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

That's a fucked up story. Let me tell you something bad is what that is. That's horrifying.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I look being a cynic and thinking beyond it all, I think he. I think he was killing her and had to make it look like it was anybody but him.

[James Petregallo]

And absolutely that new woman move right in. Had to kill them all. That's great. He said I'll kill everybody. That'll make me look insane or that'll make me look not guilty. So if you enjoy that story or any of the other stories, please get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars. It helps fucking tremendously also. Shutupandgivemerder.com head there for your tickets for live shows. 4 19, April 19th is our 420 virtual live show. It's available for two weeks after it, to purchase it, to watch it, to do whatever you want with it for two weeks. Watch it 100 times. We don't care. Knock yourselves out. We'll be in costumes, telling a crazy murder story, smoking weed out of crazy devices and just like a regular live show. But you're in your house. It's going to be so much fun. We can't wait for that. Also, Chicago and may get your tickets at the Riviera coming up. And for the rest of the year as well. Shut up and givememurder.com patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you are going to get a whole big back catalog of bonus stuff. You've never heard before and new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, One Small Town Murder this week crime and sports Spanish Paralympic team that wasn't disabled, but they did win the gold. Spoiler alert and some other scams. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about the American Nightmare documentary on Netflix. It's fucking the craziest story I've ever heard. You think it's a papini? Is it? We'll find out. That's patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. Want to follow us on social media? Drop down menus on shutupandgivemurder.com will take you there and take you everywhere you need to go. That said, thank you so much for listening everybody and until next week, it's been our pleasure. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Unknown]

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