#589 - Pig Farm Murders - Wimer, Oregon

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder – Episode #589: Pig Farm Murders - Weimer, Oregon

Release Date: April 24, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode #589 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman delve into a chilling case from Weimer, Oregon—a small town plagued by mysterious disappearances and a gruesome murder involving a pig farm. Combining in-depth research with their signature comedic flair, the duo unpacks the harrowing events that unfolded on a secluded farm, exploring the intertwining lives, tragic outcomes, and the dark underbelly of rural America.

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Background on Weimer, Oregon

Weimer is a diminutive town located in southwestern Oregon, approximately four hours from Portland and two hours from Weed, California. With a population predominantly composed of older residents (median age: 61.4) and skewed gender demographics (56% male, 44% female), the town presents an idyllic yet isolated picture. Despite its serene surroundings along Evans Creek and proximity to Rogue River, Weimer grapples with issues such as rising crime rates linked to the legalization of marijuana and the influx of transient workers.

James Pietragallo [09:20]: “Median home cost here is $376,800.”

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Susan Monica: From Engineer to Isolated Farmer

Susan Monica, formerly Stephen Buchanan, is at the heart of the Pig Farm Murders. Enlisting in the Navy to fight in Vietnam and honorably discharged, Susan underwent a gender transition in the early 1970s. Post-service, she thrived in an engineering career before purchasing a 20-acre farm in Weimer in 1991, seeking solitude and a change from her previous life.

Jimmy Whisman [27:08]: “She was not just. She's going through a lot.”

Over the years, Susan established her farm, focusing on pigs and chickens, and ran a wrought iron fence and gate-building business named White Queen Construction. However, by 2012, signs of mental distress began to surface, marked by significant hair loss and withdrawal from personal hygiene, indicative of severe PTSD.

James Pietragallo [30:31]: “Nothing good has happened.”

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The Disappearance of Robert Haney

In December 2013, Robert Harry Haney, a 59-year-old handyman hired by Susan through a Craigslist ad, vanished from the property under suspicious circumstances. Robert, known for his alcoholism and volatile behavior, had previously worked sporadically on Susan’s farm. His son, Jesse, reported Robert missing after failing to contact him for over two months.

Jimmy Whisman [37:08]: “Have you heard from dad? No, we all started to panic.”

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Investigation and Discovery of Remains

The Jackson County Sheriff's Office initiated a missing persons report and commenced an investigation. Surveillance footage revealed Robert’s EBT card being used at a nearby Walmart after Susan claimed he had left to find work in Ashland, Oregon. This discrepancy raised immediate red flags.

When law enforcement executed a search warrant on Susan’s property, officials were met with squalor: garbage pits, animal enclosures, and signs of neglect. During the search, they discovered human remains—a severed leg—in a pond near Susan’s house, unmistakably human and not animal in origin.

James Pietragallo [52:46]: “They encounter a human leg. Just a leg?”

The shocking find led to intensified scrutiny of Susan’s activities and statements. Susan admitted to using Robert’s EBT card ostensibly for purchasing beer and basic food items, but her explanations were fraught with inconsistencies and bizarre justifications involving her pigs.

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Arrest and Trial

Susan Monica was arrested and charged with two counts of murder, abuse of a corpse in the first degree, and identity theft. Her trial became a focal point for the community and garnered significant media attention due to the gruesome nature of the crimes and her erratic behavior.

During the trial, testimonies from former workers and neighbors painted a picture of a woman struggling with mental health issues and exhibiting controlling and abusive tendencies. Notably, an inmate testified that Susan had admitted to killing and feeding individuals to her pigs, further complicating her defense.

Jimmy Whisman [154:18]: “She admitted during the direct examination this inmate that she was in custody for a while on a probation violation.”

Despite her defense attorney’s attempts to portray the murders as acts of mercy or self-defense, the overwhelming evidence and contradictory statements led the jury to convict Susan Monica of both murders.

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Key Testimonies and Evidence

1. Jordan Farris (Inmate): Testified that Susan admitted to shooting Steve Della Ceno during an argument and leaving his body for the pigs to consume.

   James Pietragallo [154:17]: “She admitted to killing Delicino during an argument.”

2. Michael Bales: A former worker who described Susan’s increasingly erratic behavior and her tendency to belittle and scold helpers.

   Jimmy Whisman [56:35]: “He looks like a dickhead sometimes.”

3. Neighbors and Former Workers: Provided accounts of Susan’s hostile interactions and her use of pigs as a means to dispose of bodies and dispose of unwanted individuals.

   James Pietragallo [136:50]: “She shot two of his dogs and one of his cats and used them for feed.”

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Conclusion: Verdict and Sentencing

After a brief deliberation, the jury found Susan Monica guilty of two murders. The judge sentenced her to two consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole, given her age and the severity of her crimes. The property remains a site of ongoing investigation and environmental cleanup due to the extensive neglect and contamination associated with the crimes.

James Pietragallo [176:18]: “Pig Lady” refers to an indie horror movie inspired by Susan’s case, highlighting the macabre fascination surrounding the murders.

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Closing Thoughts

Episode #589 of Small Town Murder offers a gripping exploration of a bizarre and horrifying case that underscores the dark complexities hidden within seemingly peaceful rural communities. Through meticulous research and engaging storytelling, James and Jimmy shed light on Susan Monica’s descent into madness and the tragic consequences that befell those around her.

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Notable Quotes

• James Pietragallo [07:13]: “We just don’t know who’s this belong to.”

• Jimmy Whisman [82:18]: “Sometimes you gotta take a leg.”

• James Pietragallo [143:35]: “What the fuck would you do? Like, she says, I shot him to put him out of his misery.”

• Jimmy Whisman [158:29]: “I have an urge to murder when they're in my way.”

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For those intrigued by the intertwining of true crime and dark comedy, this episode of Small Town Murder is a must-listen. Subscribe and stay tuned for more in-depth analyses of small-town tragedies with a twist.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to get you styled up with Stitch Fix. Shopping's hard. It's hard. With Stitch Fix. You get a stylist, though, who understands your style, your size, your budget, and they do all the shopping for you. Wow, this is excellent shopping. I'm telling you. Shopping and figure out your style. It's overwhelming. Let somebody help you. When it comes to getting dressed, we don't know what we're doing. So we let Stitch Fix help us out. A Stitch Fix stylist there, they know it works on us. We get the prices that make us look really good. And it feels good. You get some confidence boost walking around knowing that you're looking decent here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. We just give the stylist our sizes, style, budget, preferences. I hope we order boxes when we want, how we want. No subscription or any of that required. And they send all just for me pieces as well. Oh, like maybe you'd like this. And it's awesome. Outfit recommendations, styling tips. You keep what you love, you send back the rest. It's super easy. You can do it. And we are doing it because it's excellent personal styling for everyone. Get started [e-mail] STM that's stitchfix.com STM.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about Goldbelly. That's right. It's incredible. It's an unforgettable gift you can get. Hey, how about mom on Mother's Day? That's coming up. It's Gold Belly, everybody. This amazing site that we order from all the time and where you can get the most iconic famous foods from restaurants all across the U.S. this is great. We all move around the country and then we want the things we want from back home and it's not there. Or even from somewhere else that you just want to go to. And they'll ship it anywhere across the country for free in time for Mother's Day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Unbelievable. And there's so much good stuff on there too. There's so much good stuff. I mean, everything from the New York bagels. That's what we got, which is excellent. Gold Belly will ship gift worthy cakes from Ina Garten and Martha Stewart Magnolia bakeries, famous banana pudding, New York bagel brunch directly from the city, or even authentic deep dish Chicago pizza. If you're looking to make your Mother's Day perfect or you want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal, next Time you host. Go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Small Town Murder. That's goldbelly.com code Small Town Murder for free shipping and 20% off your 1st order.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

When Luigi Mangione was arrested for allegedly shooting the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, he didn't just spark outrage, he ignited a cultural firestorm. Is the system working or is it time for a reckoning? I'm Jesse Weber. Listen to Law and crime's Luigi. Exclusively on wonder. This week in Weimer, Oregon. Mysterious disappearances on a local farm lead detectives into a world of horror with filth, body parts, a strange cast of characters, and some very hungry pigs. Welcome to small town murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yay. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of small town Murder. As usual, we have a very, very, very W for you today. I mean, it is all sorts of filth. So we'll get into all of that. It's a nasty farm story. This, by the way, is a story that we did for the virtual live show back on Halloween. And this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was forever ago.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it was a long time ago, so I'm sure everybody forgot. And plus, we've added a lot more details here. The virtual lives, you don't quite get the same amount of time to go over every detail of the murder, you know, with costumes and such, pictures and the like. So we're gonna get into that. Before we do, though, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com get your tickets for live shows. The 4:19. That's right. April 19th, Saturday night. And if you're listening to this after that and go, oh, I missed it. No, you didn't. If you're within two weeks of April 19, you can still get it. You can watch it a hundred times. Do whatever you want. Virtual live show, just like a regular live show, but in your house or wherever the hell you want. Anywhere with Internet. But we have costumes that are going to be fun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Terrific.

[James Petregallo]

Just like all the pictures, everything like that, except you can be in your living room. Come and see it. Or stay and see it, I should say. And that's the 4:20 virtual live show. And then also get your tickets for May 17th at the Riviera in Chicago. Live. Live show will be Live. Live. So get in there and see that. Can't wait. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of that. You should also listen to our other two shows, Crime in sports. We got a big Evel Knievel series going on right now. Nothing to do with sports, just crazy stuff. And then definitely listen to your stupid opinions as well. The show that we do about Internet reviews, then if you listen to everything, you're all caught up and you need more. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get, first of all, hundreds of episodes of back bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription, lots of binging. Then new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. And you get them. You get it all. This week, what we're gonna do for crime and sports, we're gonna continue on with fraternity hazing and do a part two there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was so fun.

[James Petregallo]

It was so fun. And I'm like, oh, no, it's already an hour. No, we have so much more.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ben Franklin burned a man to death.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Ben Franklin was involved in just a man flaming on just going. And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about the Lori Valo trial here. The doomsday cult mom, as she's known. And her trial in Arizona is going on right now. She's representing herself, questioning all the witnesses and doing a terrible job. And we're gonna talk. I've been watching Adeline beeps. I've watched every second of it. So we're gonna. About the highlights of her representing herself. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the show too. So there you go. We're gonna screw this up. Jimmy will screw up your name is. What I meant to say there. That said, I think it's time for the disclaimer. It's comedy show, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is.

[James Petregallo]

We are comedians. There will be jokes, but that doesn't mean that anything in the story is not real. Every last detail somehow is real. In all the. You'd listen to these stories and go, they had to make some of that up. No, we didn't. Not a drop of it. Don't need to. You know, it's crazy stuff here. You say, what's so funny about murder? Lots of stuff. Including someone saying, I think I can get away with this crazy murder. That's crazy and worthy of jokes right there. But what we don't do what we never do. We go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? So if you think that sounds good to you, we're going to have a wild time. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together. I don't know what you're doing here, but maybe give it a shot and see how you like it. No complaining later. That's the only. The only rule there. So that said, I think it's time to sit back here. We all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shut up. Thank me. Murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are going to Weimer, Oregon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

W I M E R Weimer. It is small place here in Southern Oregon, like southwestern Oregon. Kind of. About 4 hours and 10 minutes to Portland, so nowhere near there. About 2 hours to weed, California, if you're looking to go there. Going there. The 420 show. We're going to Weed. Going to Weed, New York, that day. And then it's about an hour to Kirby, Oregon, which was our last Oregon episode. Too Many Dead Neighbors. That was the one where the guy had the junk pile in between. He made a fence out of a junk pile. And it was a lot. And the area code here, 4, 5, 8. The town motto here. As I assume a lot of towns in Oregon probably use this motto. Please excuse our mold, I believe is what they use. Yeah. Gonna be a little moldy. It's a little damp. History of this town here. It's in Jackson County, Oregon. That county was named for who? Jimmy?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Andrew. Michael Jackson.

[James Petregallo]

Andrew Michael Jackson. That's right. He moonwalked all the Native Americans to their reservations there. Weimer lies along the Evans Creek, north of the city of Rogue River. There's a city called Rogue River. That's a cool name for a city. Yeah, it's coming around the corner. Real creepy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like.

[James Petregallo]

The community was named for a relative of William Weimer, who edited a newspaper in Grants Pass.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So I don't know why. I guess William Weimer was also said to have established a post office in Weimer here, which was open until 1909. There's a covered bridge that crosses the creek in Weimer, and that bridge, of course, they replaced. That bridge collapsed into the Creek in 2003. So, yeah, obviously that's. Bridges need a lot of help.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Reason that nobody wants to cross Them?

[James Petregallo]

No, it's the exact reason of Funny Farm. So yeah, they replaced the bridge with a look alike bridge though. That's pretty cool. They made one that looks just like it but with stronger materials. You know, modern day stuff there with steel and shit like that. It's only a 17ft wide. Kind of a small bridge here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I guess you could get two cars across that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just a small little deal. They also became the first of an eventual 35 counties in Oregon to implement a fireproofing situation where you had to fireproof your homes around it. So it didn't help keep. Yeah, they had to keep a 30 foot or greater fire break around their structures. So. Yeah, nothing. Nothing flammable around there. Yeah, so your couch doesn't catch on fire here. The 2007, the residents voted not to reopen the county's 15 libraries which were closed due to a shortage of funds. It was the largest, the largest library closure in the history of the United States. And then they were. And they reopened them with reduced hours few months later. Okay, that's. That's wonderful reviews here. Five stars. We've never been here. Who knows? Five stars. I felt loved and safe in my university. They helped me get stable. Came in all fucked up. I came in all unstable and came out on even ground. I visited the lake of the Woods. Lake of the woods, huh? And it was beautiful and peacefully quiet. All right, here is four stars. Here we go. I've lived in Jackson county for my entire life and it's been amazing. I think five stars is amazing. I think five stars is amazing though. Four stars.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where they at? Three.

[James Petregallo]

Very good. Four. Four. There are admittedly some bad drivers, potheads and unfortunate homeless people. But that's only a fraction of what the county has to offer. What do you have to offer? Well, bad drivers, potheads, and some unfortunate homeless people. Oh, there's more. Though there is very little traffic, so commuting isn't a hassle. The weather is amazing. And if you stay here for a year, you'll see that we experience all four seasons wholeheartedly. When paired with the rolling hills, plentiful pastures, mountain ranges, inviting skies, the weather really tops off Jackson County's overall charm. Although there are obviously issues, no county is going to be perfect. However, with its low crime rates, Jackson county is a great choice for families. It's a pleasure living here. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We don't half ass a single season.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. Three stars here. The crime in Jackson county has skyrocketed with the pot grows. Came A bunch of people looking for work of. Of out of state or country. With fentanyl came a whole new set of issues. There are better places to live legal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So calm down.

[James Petregallo]

Let's not blame legal weed growing operations on all of the town's fucking ill, especially fentanyl, which has nothing to do with that. People in this town. 441. So it's a small town. It's a small place. Yeah, it's tiny. 50, almost 56% men, only 44% female. So that is. That is not a lot the most men we've ever seen in a place. I think just because there's a lot of outdoor stuff going on here. Median age here, 61.4. That is very. That's the median age. So for every 40 year old there's an 80 year old. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy. There is zero people in the census, like zero to four years old. No babies in the town.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not a single toddler baby.

[James Petregallo]

There's a store with a diaper shelf just covered in dust. The diapers are thick dust on them. No one's buying them diapers from 86. Also no one from 45 to 54 lives in this town either. So 45 years old to 54 years old, it's about 40% married, which is lower than the average for the high age. The widow rate is actually pretty normal. So you think there'd be more dead spouses here. But it's not race of this town. Pretty. Only two things here. You got 96.8% white, 3.2% Native American. That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

That's the town. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Never heard of that before.

[James Petregallo]

That's interesting. That's it. 6.7% unemployment, which is a little above the national average at this very moment. Cost of living, 100 being regular, you know, average. Here it is 106. And the highest thing here is home cost. So it is not cheap here at all. Yeah, median home cost here, 376,800 bucks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn. 400 grand.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I know there's a lot of the houses here have a lot of property with them. And I think that's. It's not a lot of mansions big. It's just, you know, 150 acres with a shitty house on it. That happens to be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is fascinating. The land makes it more valuable.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Big properties.

[Jimmy Whisman]

More. More land. You could have a beautiful house on a small property and a small house on lots of land.

[James Petregallo]

You could have two trailers sitting on 150 acres. It's the same thing. So if we've convinced you there's nowhere else in the world that you could possibly be happy, we have for you. The Weimer Oregon Real estate report. Average two bedroom rental here is slightly below the national average. About $1,190. Here's house number one. A three bedroom, two bath, 1742 square foot house. The house. The listing, by the way, bragging about a quote, fully fenced in yard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, and that's about all down the road.

[James Petregallo]

That's about all there is to say positive about it. It's. It's a. It's a. It looks like. No. Yeah. And it looks like a. Like a manufactured mobile home that they stuck in the ground real good. That's what it looks like. It's not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe it just sunk.

[James Petregallo]

Not that great. It's in the 55 Plus Golden Rogue mobile Estates. Yeah, There we go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't believe how close I am to that.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. 193,500 bucks for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's unbelievable too. And they get you on the lot fees like you could, I'm sure, even if you've got the money to buy that. It costs so much to keep it.

[James Petregallo]

So much. Here's a three bedroom, two bath suite, 1782 square foot house. So almost exactly the same as the last house. It's. This place by the way, is like. This place is like if a. If a guy went to a lodge one time and was like, I'm gonna do my house like this. Just animal pelts and shit like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I never want to forget this weekend.

[James Petregallo]

I'd like to have a house that a woman will never come to. That's what it's. That's what this house looks like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No fenced yard, though. What the.

[James Petregallo]

No fenced yard. Shit. No. A lot of junk though in this house. I don't know if it comes with the house or what. 350,000 bucks for it though. So it's interesting here. It has a big shop by the way, too big. 44 by 50 foot shop out back. Oh God. Which is. It's just an empty structure, but it's still, you know, a shop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So hard.

[James Petregallo]

Here is house number three is five bedroom, four bath, 3,732 square feet. It is 44.64 acres. Big property. It's a. It looks like a fancy log cabin. Just a real fancy kind of a rich person log cabin. Has a steam room and shit. You know what I mean? It's one of those. Yeah, the Walls are all knotty pine. That kind of crap here. Very nice. 1,250,000 bucks though seems a little steep. Things to do here. The Bigfoot trap. Okay. They're very into Sasquatch up here. This is Sasquatch country. This is a like just a little box in the woods. Basically. Looks like a little. Looks like a place where like teenagers would go to like drink beer or finger each other or do whatever in there. It's just a little, little place like that. I'll read about the Bigfoot trap. Some say Sasquatch still roams the forests of the Rogue River Valley. Whether you're a true believer or a staunch skeptic, the fact is that the world's only known Bigfoot trap resides in the forest just a few miles from Applegate Lake in southern Oregon. Well, I mean, I could build a fairy trap. That doesn't mean I'm going to catch any fairies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you're a true believer or a staunch.

[James Petregallo]

If you're a gnome trap in my backyard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Absolute idiot.

[James Petregallo]

Or an idiot. Built in 1974 by the North American Wildlife Research Team. They should have researched that there is no Bigfoot. That would have been part of their research.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pretty easy.

[James Petregallo]

The purpose of the trap was to prove the existence of the legendary Bigfoot. Holy shit. Unfortunately, in six years of use, it just caught a shitload of bears. Which is exactly like my joke that I had about that finding Bigfoot show where I go, hey, every show is the same thing. Hey, you ever think maybe that was a bear? Ever think of that? Big, tall, giant, loud, all over the fucking place in the woods. Wow. Yeah, it sounds like a bear roared at you. Huh. Weird. What could that be? Maybe a bear.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Interesting. Here in the Rogue River Valley, Bigfoot sightings and stories circulate frequently. Footprints of extraordinary size have been documented. And we've seen those are all hoaxes. And local report on. Locals report unusual phenomena not easily explained by science. Oh boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

They say, we'll let you be the judge. I've already judged that one. But in the beat enough, allowing the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

People to be the judges.

[James Petregallo]

I'm tired of people just asking questions and going, I mean maybe no, no how. That's flat earth and Bigfoot. Let's just say no definitively on that right now and move on from there. So they say. We highly recommend the 7 mile hike up Collings Mountain, I guess to see this. I don't know here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Seven miles to see a bear trap.

[James Petregallo]

I guess so. They also say that there's a lodge that claims that Bigfoot stops by every once in a while. So you should come by and eat some dinner there. You know what I mean? Also, there's the Oregon Chocolate Festival. That sounds like more our speed, I think there. From chocolate Makers wine dinner on Friday night, educational presentations and demos to chocolate brunch and weekend filled with chocolate creations offered by artists and makers from all across the west coast. There is a chocolate Maker's wine dinner. There is a chocolate Wonka costume contest. And it says to come dressed as your favorite chocolate character. Oh, who would be anybody but chocolate? That's what I mean. What are chocolate characters? I mean, There's M&MS.

[Jimmy Whisman]

At Easter.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you could be a bunny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You could be Willie.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you could be. That's it. There's no chocolate.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We run out.

[James Petregallo]

We don't usually make characters out of chocolate and eat them. Usually. That's not how it works. I don't know how that works. There's a blind taste test by expert judges.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I bet that was chocolate.

[James Petregallo]

Chocolate product competition to name the ultimate chocolate. I'm going with a milk. That's a milk chocolate?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. There's only milk dark and white. Right. Is there any other chocolate?

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure there's a few in between that we're missing, but nothing that anybody cares about. We've classified them into these three of chocolate that we care about here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dark and a cabernet. And I'm a happy guy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you don't give a shit about chocolate. That's fine. You can enjoy the live music and food truck at the festival. Bringing the family along. We have something for everyone. So explore the many family activities. And here's some activities they have the. Here's the musical lineup. Cammie Sorrenta will be there. Oh, boy, you know, that is. Nope, nope. Me neither. Piano vocalist and songwriter. And it says that she's a piano vocalist living in southern Oregon. Some of her earliest musical experience took place sharing the piano bench with the church pianist. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, I think we can all do that.

[James Petregallo]

That's probably. I could sit next to someone who plays the piano well. She blends that background with her years of classical piano training to create inventive covers of pop, rock and funko. So it's all covers. Eclectic collection of covers, including songs by ccr. I don't want to hear one chick on a piano playing fucking, you know, fortunate son. I don't need to hear that. That's just going to be weird. Right? You could.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah. You can do a. I mean, it's kind of a Family.

[James Petregallo]

You could do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That he does. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Really? Fogarty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

John Fogarty. Yeah, it's kind of.

[James Petregallo]

He sounds like a hillbilly getting stabbed in the neck with a beer bottle when he's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a high pitch. A gal could probably do it pretty well.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no. I can see it. I mean, I'm sure they sing it fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You could see it.

[James Petregallo]

I just don't want to hear. I want to hear the. The instruments, not just a piano. I don't want to hear like a. Either an overdramatic version or like a lounge up. A lounge version of that. Either way it's going to be weird. Tom Petty, you two, Tina Turner, all this type of shit. Basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All the hits.

[James Petregallo]

All the hits. And then there is a Wonka costume contest and it says, that's what we talked about there. Dress up, come dressed in your favorite chocolate character inspired costumes and win a 20, 25 chocolate getaway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, there's that too.

[James Petregallo]

Chocolate. Get the Hershey Highway, Jimmy. We know that the winner will enjoy an unforgettable overnight stay for two at the retro modern Ashland Hills Hotel. That's what you get.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where the hell is that?

[James Petregallo]

Ashland Hills, I assume. There you go. So that is that crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, Property crime is about a quarter beneath the national average. So, yeah, a little bit safer than your average town. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average, little below that. So, I mean, pretty good. Pretty good. And I don't know what the hell.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Elderly. What are they going to do?

[James Petregallo]

They're elderly and they live in rural area with like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Mountains in between. People and big properties who shoot properties.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Between their house and the other.

[James Petregallo]

Stop killing each other. That said, let's talk about some murder here. Okay, now let's talk about a person here. Steven Buchanan. We'll start out with. All right, Stephen with a V, by the way. Steven. Stevie B. Stephen Buchanan, born in 1948 in California. Now, not a lot. That's some post World War II baby boomer shit right there. California born. Yeah. Who knows? Parents were Maybe World War I people or World War II people. And a lot of people were in California. That's kind of how it got a lot of its population was World War II. Basically, jobs, people came. The Okies came hard for the jobs there. So we don't know too much about Stephen Buchanan's childhood life. Not a lot said. And it's very strange too because it's someone that you'd imagine that they would talk about their childhood later, but they don't. So Stephen here ends up signing up for the Navy to fight in Vietnam.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Signing up, signing up.

[James Petregallo]

So not drafted. Not drafted. Enlisted in the Navy and fought in Vietnam. Honorably discharged after a couple tours of duty and all that kind of shit. So, you know, Stephen came up and that's a very common thing. Parents were World War II, people had kids, they went and fought in Vietnam. It's kind of how it was. So Stephen is honorably discharged from the service after the war and then pretty much right away after Vietnam ends, Stephen comes home and becomes Susan at that point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Transitions.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Has a. Has a operation and the whole deal. You know, early 70s style too. I mean, this was so. Yeah. From then on, you know, that's. She just, she's just Susan Monica from then on. Susan, first name Monica, last name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And that's just the way it is. So.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Backer. I mean, early 70s, that's a. That's even got rid of the last name. Yeah, yeah. No, Stephen Buchanan. And like we said, we don't know what the fuck the family situation was like that would make you want to enlist for Vietnam or to completely get rid of your family name and who knows? You know what I mean? But either way, a. Somebody who knew Susan Monica at the time said she got into an engineering career and was very successful.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah. Did pretty well for herself after Vietnam. So she'll talk about later too, having some PTSD from Vietnam and some stuff like that, which, I mean, a lot of people went through that Christmas.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So she was going through a lot. She's not just.

[James Petregallo]

You add that into. Yeah. Into everything else too. Yeah. That's a lot to go through. Yeah, yeah. So 1991. Okay. Susan's been working, doing engineering and all that kind of thing for a while. She buys a 20 acre farm in Weimer. Yeah. And wants to kind of just change her lifestyle completely. Susan wants to have pigs and chickens and all that kind of shit and have like a, you know, kind of a mini farm, basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She swings hard away from whatever's going on in her life. She's.

[James Petregallo]

I don't want to do this engineering to. I'm going to live on a farm. A small military.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Going to. Going to go out here. And a lot of this with Susan is kind of kind of pulling away too. There's a lot of pullback I see from. From people and from society and stuff like that in Susan of things that she's. She'll start to do over the years. And that's, you know, also. Also undiagnosed. PTSD makes people do that too. They get. They kind of withdraw a little bit there. So anyway, she does all this, has pigs, chickens, ran a wrought iron fence and a gate building business out of the farm too. So she's doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, doing all this type of shit. It's called White Queen Construction, which is a little on the nose, I would say. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fucking bingo.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, sense of humor too. So when Susan first bought the property, it was undeveloped woodlands. It was just the woods. She just bought a plot of woods and she ended up chopping trees down, erecting a large barn, which an engineering background is going to help when you want to build shit and figure out, you know, what surfaces are and all that kind of things. That's all engineers, right. To do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Plan all that kind of shit out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

More or less engineering that gets you going with the architecture.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You probably know a good amount. So anyway, a large barn is erected and a. She starts working on building a house too there. So just making a whole little. Little nook. In 2001, Susan was convicted of reckless endangering and resisting arrest. And this was in some kind of incident in town that were. The details were never made public here, but that's. I just have her arrest record of. That's definitely what happened. 2009 was booked on menacing and recklessly endangering. That was the charges. Those charges were dropped ultimately. So we don't even know what that is. They could have been a misunderstanding. No idea. No idea. So 2012 comes around and Susan is just not in good mental place at this point at all. Starts losing like chunks of hair from stress, like in patches. That kind of shit. Like Roger Maris when he was going for the record. Well, yours. Yours went evenly at least.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I mean, the center of the back isn't so great, but.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, but that's just male pattern baldness. That's not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean the whole thing is just.

[James Petregallo]

It's not. Oh, fuck. I got this. Something the size of a quarter with no hair back there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it just thinned real specifically.

[James Petregallo]

Like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That sucks a lot.

[James Petregallo]

It's just thin. Specifically in the same place that 40% of the male population, you know. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, there's that. Yeah. But it's like. It's that it. You. There's no haircut. There's none.

[James Petregallo]

You can.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can even all the areas. And then the. The thinning is still obvious.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So you just gotta shave it. You got no choice.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta shave it or some people can do something. You'd see some people, it looks normal. It depends on their head. Depends on your head.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I got a pretty good round head, but I can grow.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta decide what kind of head you have.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And yeah, I can grow specific areas out and cover everything by pulling it long in a tight ponytail like Garland. But I'm not doing that shit either.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our safest sponsor, Simplisaf. Days are getting longer. We got longer daylight hours, which means you might be spending more time away from your house, which gives burglars more time to rob your house. That's what happens here. FBI crime data shows that break ins are more likely during daylight hours than at night, actually, which you don't think of that. But you need to protect your home with Simplisafe's proactive security that helps stop threats before they even happen. We love SimpleLife because, number one, they're great. The alarms are great. The cameras are high quality. I love the. I love the fact that they can tell somebody and yell at them to go away from your house and they can call the cops. Right. And it's easy to install. That was. I was so worried when we first got. I was like, I'm not gonna know how to do this. It's super easy. They have installation if you need it. But you can do it. If we can do it, you can do it. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's Simplisafe S I M p l I safe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our fashionable stylish friends over at Quint's. Spring's coming up. People want to travel. You've been in the house all winter. You want to get out, you want to do things. Vacation season's here, Road season for us is here. And we're going to treat ourselves to some of the little luxe upgrades that we deserve with Quint's high quality travel essentials at a fair price like lightweight shirts and shorts from $30 pants for any occasions and comfortable lounge sets. Also, you can get premium luggage options and durable duffel bags to carry it all. And the Best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We like quints a lot. I've ordered stuff. I have a leather jacket. I have sunglasses. Jimmy's got pants. And I'm looking for more stuff because we gotta travel, so they do. And I do need travel stuff, too. So we need this for the road. Quince is gonna help us out for the road. And for your next trip, treat yourself to the lux upgrades you deserve from quince. Go to quince.comsmalltownmurder for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com Smalltown Murder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Smalltown Murder now back to the show. No, but then parodying. Shit. Front too. That would look weird. You'd be. Yeah, it looked like you pulled it back. So far. You've pulled it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm yanking pieces out.

[James Petregallo]

You've pulled it too far back. Jimmy, loosen that up a little bit. Good God. No, it's fine, though. It's fine. Your hair's fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, but the patches and, like, not having great hair, I feel so much for Susan.

[James Petregallo]

It's a stress thing here, you know. Like, we hear this often with people who are under extreme stress. They'll lose chunks of hair and in spots. Susan starts to not take care of her body at all or herself. Claims that basically for the next two years, from 2012 to about 14, she doesn't ever take a bath or a shower, nothing. Just wipes herself down with a rag.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, golly.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. So, I mean, that's. You're living in the woods and she's doing a lot of, like, manual labor out there dealing with pigs. So, I mean, there's. She's got animal shit on her multiple times a day. Like, I would be dying for showers in this situation. But that shows your mental state.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's just kind of letting herself go. That's. That's terrible.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I think it's the mental state of whatever she's going through at this moment is having a bad effect here. So wiping down with a rag, which is never good. 2013. There's a guy named Robert Harry Haney, H A N E Y. And he's born in 1957. And he found Susan through an ad on Craigslist. She put out an ad on Craigslist for basically, people to help work her property. And you can live there. That's for room and board and a Little bit of cash and, you know, kind of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She doesn't have time for a shower. She needs some help around here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she needs help. And also, you know, I mean, how old is she at this point, getting 64 years old or something. You know, if you want to chop a tree down, you might want to get some help with that. When you're in your 60s, you might.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get winded a little more, a little bit.

[James Petregallo]

So now her, Susan, or I'm sorry, Robert's son said, quote, my dad and Susan had a deal. My dad would get part cash and be able to stay on the property. My dad agreed to build a house from the bottom up. So that's part of the deal is he's going to help build the house and all that kind of shit. So now Robert liked to live in the woods, like the solitude. Liked all that. He lived out in the barn and just liked. It's real quiet out there. And that's kind of what he was into here. Another person said he was her handyman, laborer, carpenter. Whatever she asked of him, he did. That's what a friend said. Now, December of 2013, apparently Robert always keeps in touch with his kids, keeps in touch with his son Jesse. He's got another kid too, he keeps in touch with. So always keeps in touch with his kids no matter where he is. Kind of a wanderer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Someone who's looking for ads on Craigslist, you know, for labor in exchange for room and board, is probably a bit of a wanderer, you know what I mean? They're not that stable. So Jesse, who is Robert's son, said we hadn't seen or heard from my dad in two months starting in December 2013. They noticed. Hey, have you heard from dad Anytime, you know, pre Halloween and no one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Had two months is the flag.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, that's. Yeah, that's how you know out there he is probably too. Yeah. So. And who knows how often they talk or whatever. But they said that we all just started to panic is what Jesse said. We just didn't know what to do about that because two months usually, I guess it was a weekly call. And then, you know, there was some time went by and then it just didn't. Still had. Couldn't get a hold of him. So also, Susan, around this time has been acting a little bit strange. One guy here who we'll talk about named Michael, who will have plenty of. He'll have plenty to say and it's all hilarious, by the way. This guy. I want this guy to have a fucking Netflix special. But he can't know that they're even filming him. Like a hidden camera Netflix special where he's just talking to people because he's fucking unintentionally hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Follow his day.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's the best. This guy's amazing. I wanted to just follow him around. He said Susan had always been nice, and I noticed a change in her there. So he'd been kind of living on and off here for a while on the property, and he said that Susan started acting differently after Robert disappeared. He said she was real irritated. Now, they said that Susan was always nice to everybody else, but she and Robert didn't get along. A lot of fighting. Robert's a drinker. Okay. He likes to drink and he likes to get loud and that kind of thing. So they end up arguing a lot. Getting Craigslist employment, that's the other thing, too. Yeah, I don't think he's real stable here at all. So another friend here and former. I'm sorry, A former worker of Susan on the property said and when she got angry, she would yell at him. Not really a yell, more of a scold.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. She targets him with her rage.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. But it's very much put him in place, though, of you are not allowed to do this and you should be doing that. And very much talking down to him as a. As a. A person. Also, Susan has a little bit of a thing where Susan's kind of pretty smart person, and she treats a lot of people like she's an idiot. Like they're an idiot, basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like she's okay.

[James Petregallo]

Like she's smarter than them, because she is. I mean, that's. And she also. Something about people who drink. She really looks down on them in a weird way, too. Yeah. Like they can't even control their drinking. So anyway, they said that, yeah, she would do more of a scold. One neighbor said that she had a strained relationship with Susan and she didn't know who was arguing, but often heard yelling from over there. Yeah, she said that, quote, she was actually hollering in the middle of the night. And I hadn't really met them other than just seeing them in the road. So anybody who lived there at all. So January 1, 2014, Robert's kids drive out to check on their dad. They drive out to Susan's farm. Now, he's got like a trailer is what they're calling it, but it's like a truck with a back camper thing on it. Not a shell. It's got like a. Like it's high it's like enough to live in. It's like if you like a pop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Up, I guess, goes on the bed rails, just kind of builds it up kind of.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like that. So that's what he. He's. That's. He's got one of those parked on the property, and I guess sometimes he stays there. He had been staying in the barn, but then he moved into there. And he's got a dog, too, in the mix here. There's a lot going on. So they spoke to Susan, the kids, when they came out to find Robert, and she said, I haven't seen him since he quit four months ago. He quit and took off months ago?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Quentin took off. I don't know. So Jesse, the son, said. Susan said that my dad just basically left. She wanted us to come retrieve our dad's stuff. And she was also like, yeah, he left four months ago. He left his trailer, all his shit here. You should get it off my property. So they went over to his trailer, and they said as soon as they looked in his trailer, they knew that something was up here. Jesse said his leather jacket was there, his dog was still running around, and all of his tools were there. It made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, he's not going anywhere without his tools if that does for work.

[James Petregallo]

Well, she said he took off, and she thinks he went somewhere to go look for work. She said, I think Ashland. He went to go look for work. So you don't go look for work, and especially in January, you don't not take your jacket or your tools to go work. It just doesn't make any sense. Understandably, they're a little bit taken aback by this. He said he found most of his father's belongings intact, including vehicles and other items, but could never find his dad's wallet anywhere around. So, yeah, it's interesting. So they end up filling out a missing persons report with the Jackson County Sheriff's Office. And they learn also that months had passed since anyone had seen him. And a lot of times he lived on cash, which makes it not very easy to track his actions here, too. So police come out to the farm because it's a missing persons report, and that's the last place he was seen. So you got to put together a timeline. And they go take a look over here. They pull up to the property, and there's the camera footage of them pulling up to the property and pictures, and it looks like a fucking mess. It looks like a mess. It looks like they have back here. They Used to have these, like, paintball courses that were, like, zombie apocalypse themed, where there's like, you know, like an old trailer tipped over on its side that people could hide behind. And like a fridge that someone will pop out of. It's like garbage hanging, shit like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's fun. Unless you have to investigate.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing. Unless you have to go look through that shit. But this looks like this is all the fun of a paintball course, but with no paintballs. This is just. This is just a scary place. Yeah. Like, if everybody left, some company could just go, oh, we'll have paintball wars here, obviously. Let's just set up shop. You just decide which side stands where. And there we go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, clearly this is a paintball field. And that's all it's.

[James Petregallo]

There's shit everywhere. There's vehicles, debris, kind of makeshift shanty town structures where it looks like a little Hooverville in there somewhere. It's real weird, man. The one police officer says, I'm thinking to myself as we are pulling up, are we in the Twilight zone here? What the fuck am I doing here? Like, everybody pulled out, was like, whoa, this place is weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We have to discern from what's normal and what's not here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. It's like they pulled up and he's like, maybe I'll retire, Start a zombie apocalypse themed paintball course here. That seems like what I'm doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This looks all confusing.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. So Susan told the cops that Robert lived and worked on her property for about six months. But things kind of took a bad turn for him and he left. The cop said, quote, he received a concerning call from a family member that she had been the victim of an assault. And he was really upset about that. This will go on. They claim that. Susan claims he got a call from a family member saying that someone in his family got raped, attacked and raped. And he was really upset about it. And Susan said that basically he left to go, quote, take care of that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stevens did.

[James Petregallo]

Robert left?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Robert. Robert.

[James Petregallo]

Robert.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Robert left to go, quote, take care of the rapist. Apparently he's gonna go kill the rape. Or apparently so. Okay. I mean, good luck. But, you know, that's the story. She claims he began drinking heavily and acting erratically after that phone call. And she said he eventually told her he's going away for a while and said, could you please take care of my dog? I gotta go take care of this rape thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. Keep an eye on my trailer and my dog and my tools and my jacket. I'm Gonna go avenge a rape.

[James Petregallo]

I'm gonna go avenge somebody's honor right now. But I don't need my jacket. Luckily, yeah, I'm gonna go. It's in a very warm climate. This person's honor. It's in San Diego. This honor, it's gonna be okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Going to the high desert for this one.

[James Petregallo]

So they were. The only way they're able to track Robert at all is he has an Oregon Trail Electronics Benefit Transfer Card. That's your, like, your, like your EBT card, Like welfare, Social Security, whatever. SSI card. It's called Oregon Trail, which is pretty fun. No, no. They were like, nah, nah. Everyone loves Oregon Trail. We're doing this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a champion of this game and he has benefits for life.

[James Petregallo]

For life. He got there, he didn't even take the banker. He was a farmer and he went that route and somehow made it. So they learned that it had been last used in December of 2013. So, I mean, he's supposedly missing since. Shit, September, September, early October. And this was used in December. Had a Walmart in Grants Pass, Oregon, which is about 25 minutes from Susan Monica's property and where he was living. So apparently she says he left four months ago, but he was in the area a month ago.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just. Yeah, recently, right?

[James Petregallo]

At Walmart, apparently. So they figure that out. They say that it had been used at a date after Susan Monica said he had disappeared. That's what one of the cops said. So at one point, out of nowhere, while they're chatting with her about this, because, you know, she's just saying when she saw him, she just spontaneously says, quote, I'm in the process of trying to get a government grant for research with pigs on how they consume human bodies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

She just tells a group of detectives that at her house that never asked anything about her pigs. Human bodies. They said, have you seen Robert? You know, his card was used at a Walmart? And she said, I'm trying to get money for this. Okay, yeah, she said, Robert Haney, quote, got all crazy and destroyed a room on the property. The last time she saw him. You'd be like, hey, that's great. Can you go back to pigs eating humans?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. But I'm in the middle of building a laboratory to see how fast this flesh eating amoeba works.

[James Petregallo]

We're gonna do that. I'm trying to see how quickly I can produce as much ricin as possible. Is that a thing? Like what? No, let's go back to that. So, yeah, she said he got all crazy, destroyed a Room on the property and all that kind of shit. So they asked, hey, can we look around the property? To which she said she joked around about, hey, you're need a warrant for that, buddy. Ha ha ha. Like that. Then out of again, unprompted, she says, quote, I've threatened to kill everybody and feed them to my pigs. But the thing is, pigs would probably eat you, but it's not going to be good for them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no, look around.

[James Petregallo]

I said, can we look through this guy's trailer? What the fuck is wrong with you? This is the craziest verbal diarrhea I've ever heard of in my life. Just can't stop talking about pigs eating people without being asked about it. So then she said, I mean, but yeah, that's obviously I told you I was trying to get a grant. So I'm just joking. Then she said that, you know, I'm always just joking though. I have a real dark sense of humor. She always says I have a real dark sense of humor.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. So they're going to look into this whole issue and see what happened here. And so they, they look and they, like I said, they found out that the, the EBT card was used at the Walmart near the house. So they go to Walmart, Walmart keeps their security footage. So yeah, they look through the security footage and they get to the time of where Robert's cards used and it's Susan, Monica, using his card. Susan, it's not him using his card. So who knows? Just shit groceries she was buying. Just regular shit. Yeah, just groceries.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just using his benefits.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So one of the cops said, that's when I was like, okay, we got something else going on here. I was really concerned that there was some foul play involved if she's pretending to be him using the card, you know, just whatever to take his card and then at the same time won't shut the fuck up about pigs eating people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We got a lot of questions.

[James Petregallo]

I don't want to talk to that person. So January 10th, 2014. So that's how quickly this escalated from the 1st with the kids driving out there to the 10th. They're investigating the fraud deal with the card. So they, that's when they went to Walmart, got the footage, and now they have, they come back with a warrant to search her house because, you know, the possible crimes there. So they investigated the food benefit usage card and found evidence that she'd been using the card, obviously. So they obtained a warrant to search the property and the warrant did not limit the Search to any particular piece of the property. Oh, could be anywhere. She owned nearly 20 acres of land strewn with debris, burn and junk piles, animal enclosures and various structures. That's from a court document, quote unquote. When executing the warrant, they spoke with Susan, who admitted to using the card. She was like, well, yeah, I was using it. But she has a explanation for it. She said. Well, she said that the whole point is he wanted beer, and he can't buy beer with an EBT card. So she would give her. He would give her the card and Susan would buy beer with cash and then use the equal amount on food for herself. And she said she'd buy milk, bread, cheese, whatever the fuck, you know, basic staples and shit. So she said, that's what I was doing. Well, they were like, but you said you hadn't seen him in four months.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So you couldn't have bought him beer.

[James Petregallo]

So when did you buy him beer? Four months ago. And then he gave you his card, and then what's he been doing for food for the last four months then? Because that's what he. That's how he eats is that card. So they're all a little bit confused here, but really they're more taken aback by the complete and total fucking squalor that this place is. This place. This place is horrifying. There is just garbage piles. Her refrigerator is a horror scene, dude. Her refrigerator is just packed with shit and it's all leaking out. And there's black stuff. Yeah, it's disgusting. It's fucking disgusting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's garbage just keeping a mess cold.

[James Petregallo]

Cold mess. She's eating it, I think, though. That's the thing. They also said there is industrial waste there, which I don't even know what that is, what it could be. I don't know, slurry of some kind. That came out of a fact. I don't know what's going on, Rich.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Geranium.

[James Petregallo]

Could be anything. I really feel like here. So one of the sheriff's detectives said, I would describe that property as eerie. There was a very strong odor there. A lot of decay. Gross, but just of food and animal shit and decay. Decay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ugh.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Decay is a bad word for anything. So they have to look through all this shit. There's also burn piles and junk piles and fucking pig pens and all this type of shit here. So she told them, again, I used it to buy food in exchange for beer. So they walk around the property with a video camera shortly after beginning recording. So just walking around, they have video Cameras there. Because it's 2014.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is a nice part of this.

[James Petregallo]

That helps. So while recording and surveying the property, they encounter a human leg.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Just a leg? Yeah, just hanging out. Just. First they spot a human leg in a pond. In a catchment pond, they say. They said it was clear that it was not an animal bone. It appeared to me to be a human leg that had been severed mid femur down to the toes. So not a leg. Yeah. This isn't. Somebody, like died in the woods and an animal picked him apart. It's been severed in mid femur. Think about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the most dense bone.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta saw your ass off to get through that shit. Yeah, that is a. Gotta put some elbow grease into that bad boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. So once they find a leg, they go, I think we should talk to Susan a little closer, Sue.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why's the leg.

[James Petregallo]

And hey, she's got a bunch of different people living on here. A bunch of like kind of half transient vagrant people living on the property. Anybody could have done anything to anybody. But yeah, you're the middle of this and you might know everybody. So no one's blaming Susan here, but we're, you know, we don't know who's this belong to. Yeah, yeah, but there's a leg at your house. You know, what's up with that? And the leg is found near her house part too. Not near. Not like way out in the woods or like over by somewhere. This is like up by the house. You'd notice it. Yeah, you'd notice it. Especially because there's a 30 foot halo of. No. Why do you think I told you that? There's no trees around for 30ft.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So you can see it. Yeah. You wouldn't miss it if you lived there. If there was a leg anywhere within 30ft of my house, I'd find it soon, probably.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I got a dog.

[James Petregallo]

I was gonna say my dogs will.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Find it if it's there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, it's somebody's dogs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right to the door and be like, take a look.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. So they bring her in and they also bring in a couple other people who are living on the property at the time. One is Michael Bales. And this is the guy who. I just love this guy. I didn't even look. I don't want to look him up and find out that he's been like arrested for molesting 12 kids or something because he's just hilarious. I don't want to know what horrible things he does or could possibly be into but he's fucking funny. So he lived on the property for a few months, did some work, and I guess he'd kind of come back and forth on and off on Susan's property, as a lot of people seem to do, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, you fall into your instability and you're like, well, there's a safety net over there. I'll go do that.

[James Petregallo]

And then you kind of get tired of it. And then they try to go back into the world and then, yeah, try again. Can always come back here and, like, chop some wood for bored. Basically, room and board. So they sit him down in the interrogation room and he's. Right away he goes, you guys gonna play good cop, bad cop? Which is hilarious. The cop starts laughing because, like, I don't even think this guy was around when he was around when Robert was there. But they definitely. I don't think he killed him at this point because they're laughing. And the one cop goes, no, no. He goes, we're both good cops. He says, there's no reason to play good cop, bad cop, buddy. He said, maybe if there was a reason, but if we had to play it. And the cop points to the other cop and he goes, he'd be the bad cop that's the bad guy. So Michael says the greatest thing ever. He looks at the other guy and goes, yeah, he looks like he could be a real dickhead sometimes, don't he? That's what he said. A real dickhead sometimes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't even say something like, you gonna take that from him? He said, yeah, he does look like a dick.

[James Petregallo]

He looks like he'd be a real dickhead sometimes. So the first cop just. He starts dying like it's totally real too. Like he's not just building rapport. That's hilarious. Cause I'm laughing at home. If I was in the room, I'd have high fived the fucking guy. That's funny as shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The better part is that he knows that guy, so he probably has some experience with it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And maybe he is a dickhead.

[James Petregallo]

That's what's so funny. It's so fucking funny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ah, he fucking clocked you, didn't he?

[James Petregallo]

So as they're all laughing, Michael goes, I mean, no offense, that's my middle name. Dickhead. Michael Dickhead bails apparently. So that's. He's just. He doesn't give a fuck, this guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's clearly got nothing to hide.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing to hide, nothing to lose. He's not one of these guys. Like, oh, I don't Want the community to find out that I've been questioned. He lives in a barn, and he doesn't give a fuck about anything. He's awesome.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I live in a barn, and that guy looks like a dickhead sometimes.

[James Petregallo]

That guy's a dickhead and fucking. I don't know, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's awesome.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they talk about. There's this guy Brady, who I guess was in a wheelchair, and then he's on crutches. Later on when they talk to him, he's kind of a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a miracle.

[James Petregallo]

A heavyset holder guy. Yeah. Well, he had an injury.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, he's healing.

[James Petregallo]

He's all good now. It was crazy, too, because he had polio and just got over it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's just walking now.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that your friend Brady is in a wheelchair. And he said, yeah, yeah, up in Rogue River. He introduced me to Susan and he said that she gave me a job. Okay. You know, I went up there, I was cutting wood for her, and I had nowhere else to go. So I guess you'd call me a vagrant or whatnot. He doesn't even care. He's like, I guess I'm a vagrant. You're a dickhead, I'm a vagrant, whatever. Like, who cares? I'll be each other. So, keeping it above board. Yeah, he. Dude, he sounds honest as shit. And he's, like, leaning forward, too, like, you know, you. You asked me, I'm answering, buddy. Like, he looks like. He's like a hockey goalie who's, like, ready for a puck to come out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Of this conversation, man.

[James Petregallo]

And he liked Robert, too. He said that she was pretty nice to me. And then all of a sudden, she turned, not very nice. And they said, oh, wow, well, how long were you living up there? She said, I lived up there probably about three months. And then he said, quote, she's a fucking weirdo. Which is just a funny statement. So if you call someone a fucking weirdo, I'm interested to hear why, because that's pretty. I don't know why. It's directly to the point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pretty good judge of character. I like him.

[James Petregallo]

He's succinct. He's like a USA Today headline. He's very succinct.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pulls no punches, no punches.

[James Petregallo]

They said, why do you say that? And then he said, my favorite thing I've ever heard in the history of any kind of interrogation, you got to understand, like, he talks like this and everything. Like, he's got, like, a real. He said, I don't know. She just Gave me the Heejeebee Gees, you know what I mean? The Heejeebee Gees. You know, man, I felt all the Gibb brothers just popping up on me and stuff. Gave me the old Heeji Bee Gee. But I couldn't get off on it, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

She gave me something, you know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

You know what I mean, later on and just said, no, it's all good. Never mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not your fault.

[James Petregallo]

I said, never mind. I got a headache and stuff, so, you know, just ain't working tonight. And I just went in the bathroom.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My hip fell asleep. I'm sorry.

[James Petregallo]

About 30 seconds to finish myself off there. The Hee Gee Bee Gees. I've never heard that one before, have you?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's just a very confused guy, that the Heeg.

[James Petregallo]

He said sometimes you can just tell when someone's a weirdo. And she just gave me that feeling. Yeah, the Hee Gee Bee Gees. That's that feeling, which I'll never call it anything but the Heegie Bee Gees again. Always be the Heeji, man. I'm getting the Hee Gee Bee Gees right now. So they said, were you living in the barn? And he said, I live over in the big ass barn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The big one.

[James Petregallo]

The big ass barn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not that little bitch barn.

[James Petregallo]

The big ass barn there. Yeah, I lived in two of the rooms. I lived upstairs. But then there was a TV that got put in downstairs, so I moved there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I'd get the fucking upstairs, too.

[James Petregallo]

He was just living in, like, this quiet upstairs of a barn with not even a tv. Just nothing going on. I don't think the WI FI is that strong out here. I feel, you know, what's this guy doing? He said that. He said, Robert, the guy who's missing, was originally lived downstairs. And then he got tired of her screaming at him. And so he moved to his trailer way over on that side of the property. Basically farther away from the house. Like, if Susan wants to yell at me, she's gonna have to walk her fat ass over here and do it. Because I'm not. I'm not gonna be right there to yell at anymore. So police ask him, meaning Michael here. Looking back, are there things that were suspicious to you or kind of click in your memory, like, what was weird? And he said everything she did was weird. As he said. He said everything she said was odd.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Heeji Bee Gees, man.

[James Petregallo]

Hee Gee. See my. See these little bumps on those are. Called them. Them or Heeji Bee Gees. That's what I got there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Heeji, Bee Gee.

[James Petregallo]

Bump, bumps. I got them there. Yeah. Which you also get sometimes after a blowjob, if you get them from the wrong person. That's. You get Heeji. BG bumps. Gotta go to the doctor at that point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So everything she said was odd. They said, well, how about actions? What did she do around the property? He said, quote, drove her tractor, knocked down trees, fought with Robert constantly. You know, shit like that. He said every day she'd have me go wake him up. She'd say, robert sleeps till noon, and him, he ain't doing any work. And you know all that kind of shit. Mad about that now. He says, Robert's a cool guy, though. He goes. They go, well, what did you think of Robert? He goes, I liked him. He goes, I thought he was a cool guy. We got along real good. He said, he's a real cool guy. As a matter of fact, I still owe him 10 bucks. I feel bad about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't wait to pay him back.

[James Petregallo]

He's got. And he's like, I wish it's what he said. He's like, I wish I could give it to him. Like, it's so this. I love this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And this entry here is driving me bucks.

[James Petregallo]

It's just. It's just in the credit column and it's a debit to me. You know what I mean? I just. I got to get rid of where.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He'S going to come back and go 12 bucks. Now, because it's been so long.

[James Petregallo]

I keep a 10 spot just. Just a pinned up to my wall just in case he comes in. I ain't gonna miss it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Saw buck just end right there. Wait.

[James Petregallo]

He said. He told me every day, I hope my kids can get my stuff because she's gonna kill me. That's what he said. Robert said to him every day. Then they go, okay, when we talk to you quickly. Back at the barn there, you mentioned an incident to us where Susan held you over the pig pen area. Something about that. He said, this is hilarious, man. Quote, I think she just thought. I think I thought she was just joking, but she's a big woman, and don't get me wrong, she's bigger than you are. And she just lifted me up and held me over the pig farm because I was looking at her pigs and she knows that I'm scared of them. So he was like, you want. She thought, yeah, you're scared, huh? Well, here. How scared are you now? And held him over the pig pen while the pigs ran over there. So he said, I'm scared of them and I'd never get, I'd never get in there. But anyway, I was looking and she held me over and laughed. She went her, her, her. That's what he did. He went her, her, her, her as she laughed over.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's like meatloaf from Fight Club.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Jesus. She's like the final boss from a Nintendo game. You get beaten, they go hur. This show, Small Town Murder is sponsored by Better Help Therapy. Number one can feel like a, it's a big investment because it's a, it can be very expensive over time. But your state of mind is just as important as your physical health. If you had a physical problem, you wouldn't be going, well, I don't know, I'm going to go to the doctor and they're going to send a bill. You got to get it taken care of. So, you know, traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 a session, which, that'll add up very fast. But BetterHelp better helps different. BetterHelp online therapy you can save on average up to 50% per session. That's incredible. This is an affordable way to do this. Your mental health is worth it and BetterHelp will put it in reach for you here. And we are huge proponents of therapy because I know for a fact here I have my partner sitting here next to me because of therapy, because it's helped him with a lot of problems and just give him the tools to cope. And that's what therapy can do for you as well. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp betterhelp.com SmallTownMurder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com SmallTownMurder now back to the show. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about Thrive Market. Jimmy, myself, we both want to be healthy and know how to eat healthy. But the thing is where do you start with that? If you don't know what you're doing, it's very difficult. And that's why we love Thrive Market. It's our go to online grocery store for getting all of the healthy essentials delivered and we don't even have to leave the house. It's the no junk online grocery store that bans over 1,000 harmful ingredients from anything. They have their thing. I know you have one thing here particularly pasta sauce.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Drives me bananas and rouses rouse is there and it tells me what's, what's Good and what's not.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit from our friends at shutterfly. Oh, shutterfly.com, that's absolutely right. Shutterfly believes the moments that matter the most deserve a photo book. You want to remember these things. They're big for big moments. Weddings, graduations, that trip that you took that you've been saving up for for five years. And you know, that's a big deal. They're also for everyday moments. So it doesn't have to be a big giant thing. You can turn your Instagram feed into a coffee table book. You can make a. An annual memory book for your kids so they can, as the years go by, they can know that's there. You can create a family cookbook. There's endless possibilities. Let's be realistic here. Your imagination is the only thing that can hold you down. Here with Shutterfly. I'm putting together one of us on the road. That's one that I'm putting together right now. I think that would be pretty cool. So that's kind of what I'm doing with it Here we have an exclusive offer for our listeners. New customers get a free 8x8 photo book with promo code Small Town at Shutterfly. Enter code at checkout. See promotion details for more info. But get your free 8x8 photo book with the promo code small [e-mail]. make something that means something with Shutterfly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So heeji PG's her hur. This guy's just. That's what I mean. I just want to follow this guy around with a camera. Yeah, he's a dickhead. This is great. You look like a dickhead. So then she let. And she just laughed and held me over there and she told me, I would like to see how fast my pigs could get rid of a human body. And it seems like something just kind of I just thought it was funny, okay? You know, I thought she was kidding, okay? You know, and they said, were you in an argument or anything? And he went, no, no, I was just looking at the pics. She was mad at me. I wasn't mad at her. This was just a. Hey, what do you think of this, buddy?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a fucking weirdo if you ask me.

[James Petregallo]

Everything she does is odd. So, yeah, that's. He said she laughed and laughed as she said all this shit. Like, I want to see if what's up with the pigs, how fast they can eat a body. So it's fucking interesting. So they said that, well, okay, the cops said, we're familiar with the property. If you have. You're living in the barn there. And he said, yeah, big, big old. You can't miss it. We've been up there. I've lived. Yeah. He talks about the TV again. Really proud of having that TV downstairs, you guys understand? It's got TV real nice. And then they're like, now Robert, they talk about Robert and they go, we gotta confirm that we're talking about the same guy with a photograph. And he goes, no, that's him, it's Robert. I don't know who we're talking about. And they go, yeah, no, no, no, but it's like a police thing. We gotta get a photograph. And he goes, I know him, it's him, don't worry about it. And he just turns back to the other cop. Just dismissing that guy completely. Nah, fuck that. I don't need to see. No picture clocked him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He really is a dickhead, isn't he?

[James Petregallo]

Fucking Robert. So, man, downstairs, they're talking about. They're talking about living downstairs in the barn and all that. And that Robert got tired of her. So they said he said this, that she wanted all her work done for free and he wasn't doing it. And you know, he wanted more money. And you know, they would argue about how much work he did as opposed to. She thought he didn't do enough. He thought he did too much for the amount he was being given. Whatever. But Robert said. But Michael said that. He was my buddy, though. I got along real good with him, though. Everything was great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Co worker. And we're good friends at.

[James Petregallo]

We're good friends now. Brady Murray is the guy who had a miracle happen to him. The miraculous recovering Brady Murray. He is in there, this guy in this interview. I don't know if he's on pain pills or what, but he is not coherent. Like, he goes in a mumbles off and something like that. And he's, you know, it's kind of, you know. And then she went over, over there, and he's got his crutches and the way he's sitting too. He's got his legs all out and he looks just. It's just weird. Anyway, but they talked to him. He only lived on the property about three weeks before this police interview. So he didn't even cross over with Robert at all here. But they asked, what did she say about Robert, like what kind of person he was? And he said, what little she talked about to me seemed good. She said he was a good worker. He was an alcoholic. She'd go downstairs and she'd hear him hollering and that kind of thing. And they said, what were the type. Things that she didn't like about him? And he said, oh, none that I know of. She said he liked his work. And then he goes on to say Susan told him that Robert had a family member raped and that he was going to take care of it, and that was that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so the story's consistent.

[James Petregallo]

The story is consistent. Now they bring Susan in, obviously, for the interrogation here. And so they talked to her and they said, all right, yeah, we're going to talk about the Oregon Trail card here. And they already, you know, they said, you said he gave you permission to use the truck, to use the card? And she said, yeah, you know, I would go and he gave me the PIN number and that way I could use it. She said she would use his benefits to buy beer, and then she would use the card for bread, milk, and occasionally cheese. Not all the time. Sometimes, you know, not all the time. Jesus, how much cheese can a person eat?

[Jimmy Whisman]

But yeah, defense, 12 pack, 18 pack. When I got the 18 pack, I'd get that. I'd get the cheese.

[James Petregallo]

I get like a three pound, like a block from the deli. I'll just cut it myself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I like that, actually.

[James Petregallo]

That's not bad. She said, other than that, I got 500 pounds of pork in my freezers. Which, by the way, has nothing to do with the disappearance of Robert, where he is, what you're using his card for. She just says shit out of nowhere. It's so like Tourette's ish. It's fucking crazy. So they said. And then she says, she looks over into what she thinks is a recording device and says, for the record, if anybody here would like to buy some pork, I have pork. It's on sale, 80 cents a pound. I'm getting ready to get Rid of another pig. So 80 cents a pound. She's got pork available for anybody out there is looking for some extra pork. They said, well, where do you butcher up your pigs? Right there in the barn. And she said, yeah, yeah, right there in the barn. And they said, oh, you know how to do that? You know how to butcher? And she said, well, I know how to kill them, not necessarily butcher them. She said, I just. I'm kind of a butcher when it comes to butchering. She says, I'm not good at it. Essentially. They go, well, how do you kill a pig? And she goes like this and points dead in the middle of her forehead and goes, boom. That's all she said. Boom. Right like that. She says, which is a weird way to put it While holding hard, eye contact. Boom. Like, it's just creepy, right? Yeah, it's just a weird, odd thing to do. So they said, well, what kind of gun do you use for that, Like a rifle? And she said, A.22. You didn't see it? I saw everybody standing around searching, and I didn't know why. And the cop says, well, we stand around a lot sometimes. Ha ha ha.

[Jimmy Whisman]

22 can kill a pig, apparently, if.

[James Petregallo]

You shoot it right in the forehead with it, I guess there's a spot to shoot because she'll talk about that. She said, anyway, I have a rifle there in my house. I'm not a very good shot if I'm 3ft from a pig. You're supposed to make an X from ear to ear with the cross of it in the middle of it in the middle of the forehead. And so that's where you're supposed to shoot is right there. And she said, so, yeah, from three feet, I can hit the target. And they said, well, what did Robert think about your pigs? Did he help feed them? And she said, no. They said, did he ever go into their area and he takes this or she takes this big, deep. Susan was like, not that I know of. Okay, is that a no or a yes or what? Not that I know of. Which is real couching. Real kind of just. Yeah, yeah. So the cop goes, well, I mean, the pigs are certainly a conversation piece. I mean, I'd talk about them if I were there, you know. So basically, if he did feed the pigs or go over to hang out with the pigs, if I did that, I'd talk to you about it, basically. So she says, well, we didn't talk like he was just there, you know, the two of us have talked more today than we did in the months that he was there. That's what she says about this. Like, me and you sitting here. This has been a longer conversation, which goes against what everybody else said. They talked all the time and all that kind of shit, so it doesn't make sense. So they said, well, you must have been confused when he disappeared and he didn't come back to get his dog. Didn't that confuse you? And she said, I was confused. But like I said, when I saw him, it was sporadic, and sometimes I wouldn't see him for a week. And they said he left all his stuff there, though that didn't seem strange. And she said, well, he had left with somebody, and he had told me that he was going to Ashland. He mentioned to me one person in Ashland where I might get an engineering job. So, you know, I don't know. I thought he was just going to Ashland. They said, well, what do you think happened to Robert? And she said, I figured if he went to take care of the rape thing, that he might have ended up getting the short end of the stick. Like, you know, you're gonna go fight with rapists. Maybe they. Maybe they raped him to death. We don't know. Or maybe they killed him. He went to kill that guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No job for me. I don't want to be involved.

[James Petregallo]

Shit. Now what? And they said, well, why didn't you call us if you thought maybe that happened? And she said, I don't know. I didn't think it was my responsibility to call. I figured someone else would. Someone else would take care of it. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So, okay, I don't have this conversation. That's why.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. So they're like, okay, now you were talking about how he drinks once in a while, and every once in a while he would flip out because of his drinking and all that kind of thing. And they said, other than that your contact with him was kind of, you know, whatever. And she said, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't see him for a week. So that happens. The cop takes a pause, and he goes, susan, they found a leg by your house. They hadn't told her this yet, okay? And the pause is hilarious, too. Just the. Then there's, by the way, the footage where the cop is going, this appears to be an ankle and a foot and a knee joint here. And, like, describing this leg and all this type of shit. So she says, a leg?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they went. They said, a human leg. You know, human. Next to your place. And the guy goes, I think it might be Robert.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

And she says, I don't know. And they go, well, who could it be? How many people you know are missing legs around your farm? Like, what the fuck are we talking that have been sawed off at the femur? Anybody? Yeah, was anybody, like, in a landmine explosion where they had to have, like, you know, like, have their leg taken off?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Anybody get caught in a giant fucking.

[James Petregallo]

Bear trap, anything like that out here? Because that's a possibility. Looking for Bigfoot, maybe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got any Squatch traps?

[James Petregallo]

Any squat? Can I check your property for Squatch traps? Is that a thing? So they said, who could it be? And she said, no idea. And they said, do you think it might be Robert? And she said, I guess I should ask where it was if it was down there by his trailer. And they said, no, no, it was right next to your place. Just a few feet from your house, actually. Right there. She said, well, I don't know then. I mean, I would know it if it was out there, but next to my house. It could be anybody's leg, really. She said, if it was down by his trailer, he might have fallen down a hill or something and his leg severed itself at the femur and climbed back up the hill. What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He fell down a hill down in the lake.

[James Petregallo]

He fell down a hill and died and sawed off his own leg at the femur to try to save himself, I suppose. But she said, if it was my place, I don't know. So here's a good question. Do you think it's strange that there's a human leg near your house?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a great question.

[James Petregallo]

And she says, very. Okay, good answer. They said, do you think it might be Robert? Again, they ask her that. She goes, I mean, it could be, but I can't understand how it would get there because I can't see him having an accident up by my place. They go, well, then how do you think it got there? And she said, I have no idea.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's not doing great.

[James Petregallo]

So then they go, okay, what do you think we should do at this point? Do you think it might be him? Like, how should we proceed? And she goes, well, I would definitely get a DNA test out of there if I were you. Obviously they said, okay, let me ask you this, because we found just half a leg and none of the rest of Robert. So do you think if we search the other 19.99 acres of property, do you think we're going to find any other parts of any people out there? Possibly? And she said, I mean, if it's Robert's leg. I guess the rest of them must be out there somewhere.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You can't just see. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That is awfully casual to have. I mean, I guess the rest of a human body must be somewhere at my house. I don't know. Like, wouldn't you be way more like, fuck, that's gross. A human leg.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, it's a logical answer that there may be the rest of somebody somewhere if there's a leg there. But.

[James Petregallo]

Well, there's a reason for this logic as we'll come up to in a minute. She's gonna tell us why she's so logical in a second. Oh, yeah, don't you worry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Engineering answer.

[James Petregallo]

Don't you worry about that. So, yeah, I guess the rest of them is somewhere. And I go, imagine if you're the cop and you hear that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Like you're not concerned about that at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You're being too. Being too casual.

[James Petregallo]

This is extremely nonchalant here. Yeah. So they said, do you think a coyote maybe drug it next to your house? Like they're trying to anything?

[Jimmy Whisman]

She said some, some. Some common things that maybe there's explanation. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She said, well, I mean, that would make the most sense to me, I guess. And they said, okay, let me ask you this. Let's just forget about the leg for a second here. Which would be hard to do, but let's forget about it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put them in the back of your.

[James Petregallo]

Mind, yeah, let's take that leg and let's just, you know, let's just put it like behind the couch for a minute for later. Put it in the fridge for a minute.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's talk about something else.

[James Petregallo]

You have this peaceful, tranquil place. You try to help somebody out. It sounds you're trying to help them use their money smarter. So he's trying to get her, like, listen, I think you're the good guy here. I think you are the good person. This guy is not. You know what I mean? You're a nice lady. This is all good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Teaching them consumer math on the fly.

[James Petregallo]

Meanwhile, I'm taking a card and all that, but he's trying to spin it so it's like, I'm on your side. You're trying to help them use their money smarter, not drink a 12 pack every night and get wasted. I get that. He then said, you seem like a legitimately good person who tried to do the right thing by these people. He said Robert had some issues. It's actually documented in police reports that I pulled up. He said, so I know Robert had some issues. He could get loud and drunk and cause problems and maybe ruin that peaceful, tranquil place you've built for yourself out there. You know what I mean? And she said, the only time I was disturbed by him was when he made a bunch of noise. Which is exactly what that guy just said. What I just said. Exactly. Then he saw that was going nowhere, so he goes, would your pigs eat a person? And she said, I've heard of pigs eating people. I joke about it. I mean, I have a weird sense of humor. I've seen Deadwood. I get it. I know what happens.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. He's asking her very specific questions that are very uncomfortable. And if I'm not under arrest, I'm fucking leaving.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, I am absolutely going. Listen, I told you, I don't know anymore.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, but I feel like questions.

[James Petregallo]

I feel like if you're not under arrest and they have found a leg at your house, if you say, okay, I'm leaving, they're gonna go, now you're under arrest. You can't. Yeah, you're staying. Actually, no, we're gonna hang on to you because there's body parts at your house. We wanted to do, I would imagine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Casual, like, because you say cats casual. But now we can't.

[James Petregallo]

And I think they know, too, that Susan's smart, and if you. If you come at her hard, she's gonna shut down or ask for a lawyer or leave or, you know, whatever. Yeah, that could happen, too. And go give you the hee gee bee gees, you never know. So he then said, look, when I told you there was a leg by your place, you didn't even change expression, like, because she didn't. She was just like. He said, if I found a leg by my place, I'd be pretty freaked out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Super freaked out.

[James Petregallo]

And Susan says, well, I'm not freaked out. I'm fairly surprised. Fairly, fairly surprised. And they go, well, the leg goes to a person. It's to a person. And she said, well, I don't even know if you're telling me the truth right now. Flips it and says, I don't even know if there is a leg at my fucking house. You could be full of shit, he said. She said, you just might be making up stories trying to get me to say something else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And the guy goes, well, obviously the leg is from a person. And she said, well, I don't know that. I don't know that you're telling me the truth. And then they said, well, how the hell would a fucking leg get out there? And she says, the only Logical explanation I have is, I don't know, somewhere. I don't know. Then she says, you ever see Star Trek?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Flips the script hard? You ever see Star Trek?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Being honest, have you heard of Spock?

[James Petregallo]

Do you know? Well, she said, quote, I'm half Vulcan and half Klingon. Very logical. What the half Vulcan, half Klingon is my ethnic makeup, in case you're wondering. You know, I know. What are you, Italian? Irish?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pointy ears.

[James Petregallo]

Pointy ears. And I'm very logical. So that's what she says. So that's all my thing. If it came from. If there's part of a leg, there must be more of a body, but I don't know shit about it. So then they go back talking about other people that used to live there, and they're like, okay, what about this guy? He used to live there. He went somewhere, but people have talked to him since and they know him. And she goes, well, yeah, he left my place. I heard from him two, three months ago. And he was thinking about moving back to my place. And they said, but you know that he still exists, right? And she said, yeah, I know he still exists. And they're like, okay. So they there. Then she goes into. Out of nowhere, she just starts getting very, like, flustered and gets a rag and wipes her face off and said that, look, I haven't been able to look in the mirror for the last two years. I've not looked in a mirror. I haven't been able to take a bath in two years. I just take a cloth and wipe my face and I'm just. I'm miserable and I have this fucking horrible condition and I haven't been able to take a bath. And they listen to her do this for about a minute and a half, two minutes of her talking about that. And there's like a second pause and they go, susan, what do you think the chances we're going to find the rest of Robert are? They just ignore all of that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Listen, I get you're a dirty pig.

[James Petregallo]

Listen, listen, we built rapport before. I'm done with that. Now we're asking murder questions. Fuck rapport.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Itchy, you are from the dirt. Let's talk.

[James Petregallo]

So she said, in the goings on, you know, between where his stuff is on in the trailer, maybe he might have fallen down. And she said, but you guys have been down there. I was down there. I never saw anything. They said, have you ever fed your pigs any other animals before? Oh, let's start with that and move our way up Basically any other mammals. Yeah. She said, well, a couple weeks ago, I went and made some stew and I put some bones in the liquid to add flavor to it before I made this, made the meal. And they said, well, what are the pigs? And then she gave them the bones afterwards out of the. Out of the stew. They said, well, what? Yeah, what are the stents all soaked in? You know, stew stuff. What do the pigs do when they eat the bones? Like that. Like that. Do they crunch or. And she said, yeah, most of the bones, you know, I know of that. And she talks about her big. She had a skull of one of the pigs. So the pigs will eat each other, too, but there's a big skull. And they said. So they didn't eat up the skull then? No. And they said, so if a human ended up in there, then it's not likely they'd eat it up, you know. They said, the human skull, that, you know, none of that stuff. Right. They wouldn't eat the human skull. And so she says, well, a pig skull is a lot bigger than a human skull. So I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's true.

[James Petregallo]

So they. They might eat a human skull, but not a pig skull.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They couldn't get their mouth around that piece. Perhaps something smaller, I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

So they said, susan, our intention is to go find the rest of Robert.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she said, yes. And they said, we're gonna search until we find the rest of Robert. Like, you know, kind of have to. It's kind of our job. They make us. If you find a leg, they go, we gotta find a matching set for the rest of that, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I go, I found a leg, boss. The chief says, keep looking.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this isn't Mr. Potato Head. There's more. And find it. This is crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very few people are just a leg.

[James Petregallo]

They just sawed it off and said, I don't need that anymore. Threw it in the yard. So they said, and then we're going to compare, you know, we're going to make sure that the parts that we find belong to the same person. We're going to get DNA and we're going to make sure it's Robert's or someone else's. And we need to know if you have any knowledge of anything that happened to him. They said, listen, sometimes things happen that we have no control over or we didn't mean for them to happen. This happens, which. This is the minimizing it. You're not a monster. You're just a person that was in a bad situation. Anybody Would have done what you did.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sometimes you gotta take a leg.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You see cops in interrogation rooms with people that have killed their children, beat them to death, and go, I hit my kids all the time. Say what? You hit him? The little bastard hits his head on something, that's your fault now. And the guy will go, I know. And then they slap the cuffs on him and say, you piece of shit. And he's done. So, yeah, they go on trying to basically alleviate her of guilt so she'll admit to it so they can arrest her for murder. You know, you know how they do so, you know, they go, you know, for various things, happen for various reasons, and we hide things and, you know, we don't expect, you know, as they're going into this, she just puts this conversation on a hard stop and says, quote, if my pigs did eat Robert, would you kill my pigs?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Huh? Pardon? What was that? Excuse me? They said, I mean, obviously this shocks the shit out of the cop that she would say that. So, yeah, the guy seems flustered. He goes, well, I don't know. That's something we'd have to look at. Like, that's not really on the books. You know what I mean? What the penalty is for pig on man crime. We really isn't. I don't know if the laws are in the books over that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like, if your dog ate a kid. It depends. Was the dog fed that food only or did it go attack and kill the child also?

[James Petregallo]

Dogs and pigs are different.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Are these attack pigs?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. Well, I think pigs are all the same. Pigs eat whatever you put down. Pigs are wild animals. They're not really controllable when it comes to what they eat. Whereas a dog, you know, I don't know, if a dog attacked a kid, they blame you for that. I don't think they blame you for a pig attacking someone. So they said. It's a really. Obviously the oddest question ever, but she's concerned about the fate of her pigs here, which is the strangest part of this whole thing. It's really weird. I don't know. In her mind, though, the pigs are, you know, they're not in the wrong at all. If they did eat them. That's just. Just being pigs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's just them. Yeah. Pigs being pigs.

[James Petregallo]

Pigs are being pigs. So they go, well, why don't you just tell us what happened? How about that? Why don't we start from. Because we're talking about a leg and you're talking about what if my pigs Ate a guy. Let's put our cards on the table here. Let's just see what we both have in our hands here. Who won the poker match? So she said, everything I told you was the truth. And they said. But she said, up until about a week after Bobby had called me, that's one of Robert's sons, who said, I don't know where my dad is. Do you know? She said, I don't know when, but sometime about a week after Bobby called and I went down to the pig. So he had been gone a week, apparently, or he had been missing a week from the kids. The kids said they called, he wasn't around. She said, I went down and he was, like, half eaten. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that's information.

[James Petregallo]

So the cop goes, by what? The pigs. He was half eaten by the pigs. What are we talking about here? She goes, it was early in the morning. I would go, oh, I'd cross my leg for that. Okay, let's settle in for a story, applesauce.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's hear it.

[James Petregallo]

The sun was just rising over the rolling hills as the fog broke in the morning dawn. And she said, and I saw what happened. His guts were all over the place. And the cop goes, ah, which is great. And she continues, he was still alive. I. I knew he wasn't going to be alive for more than, you know, a few more minutes. His guts are out, you know. His guts are out. Yeah. If you can. If you can pick out someone's internal organs because they're, you know, next to them, they probably aren't going to live that much longer, I would say, see.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A hole, and out of that hole comes guts.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, is that a pancreas? That's a bad sign. Yeah, so she said, I went back up to my house when I. And I got my gun, and I shot him in the head.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I euthanized a person on my property?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She said I had to put him out of his misery, is what she said. Now, this is fucking wild. Number one, first of all, if you found your pigs eating a person who worked on your property, I would assume you would probably call somebody for that, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. At least 911 tell. I don't know who they're going to send, but you. You. You leave that on them. You call 91 1. They send over whoever they need to the pig unit, The. The, you know, whatever they got to send out there. I don't know. So I don't want to be disparaging.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Police officers, but why?

[James Petregallo]

Who cares? It's all of them. Yeah, I don't know what kind. Like the. The wildlife unit. Yeah, it's a different one. So she then said, I don't wanna. I didn't want my pigs to be shot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And I didn't want my pigs to be shot for something that's natural because, you know, the pigs. The pigs get hungry, you know, and if he was out there, I don't know what happened. To start with, they said. She said, if he went out and, you know, started doing something to them, I don't know. She said, I can't see that my pigs would go ahead and do something to somebody without cause. My pigs are real. They're real moral like that. I noticed about my pigs. Like, they don't fuck with people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's not mistake that.

[James Petregallo]

They are very Old Testament, these pigs. I'll tell you what, right now, they have beliefs and they're strong by them. Eye for an eye.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And, you know, oftentimes when I shoot one in the fucking face, they all say, we saw that. Watch your back.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they know what's going on. So she said, they've always been very friendly with me. They're still very friendly with me. I don't want to say. I didn't want to say anything. And, you know, I was afraid you were going to go out and shoot my pigs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a thing to say.

[James Petregallo]

The cop. Because the cop is like, I'm sure the cops are like, I'm so sick of hearing about these pigs. Fuck the pigs. Because the cop goes, yeah, that's not gonna happen right now. Okay, we're gonna look into that. But, you know, tell me, like back to the beginning, what happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You just told me you shot a man.

[James Petregallo]

You shot a man in the head to put him out of his misery. And then you're just glossing over that to tell me about. You're worried about the pigs. Yeah, I'll go out there right now and blow every one of these pigs up. It doesn't matter. We're talking about a murder case. Okay? This is crazy. Yeah. Fuck. So they said, how did you know Robert was in there? Did you hear a noise? What happened? Yeah, and they said, I came down in the morning and this was maybe it was over a month since I'd seen him last. And because it was about the time when Bobby had called to ask me what was going on, and I told him I had no idea. And so he had been gone. And he had been gone for over a month. Okay. I mean, he'd been gone for over a month. And they said, a month. And she said, yeah, she said, I came down to feed my animals and I just heard this moaning and stuff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

And I heard screaming. Not really a scream. Just moaning and moaning. And his guts were out, but he was still alive again. And he was moaning and it was, you know, and he was moaning a little bit. She just kept saying, he kept moaning. So they go, so what did you do then? She said, I yelled at the pigs. Well, obviously you want to. Bad pigs. That's bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no, we don't eat guts.

[James Petregallo]

Charlotte, no webs tonight. No, we're not. No, don't. You don't compliment these pigs tonight. I'm sorry. They are on punishment.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of trouble.

[James Petregallo]

We've had so many Charlotte's web references lately. I don't know how it keeps coming up and every show it comes up. I don't understand this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, she said, I yelled at the pigs and they were just doing their thing. They were just. They just, you know, were having a lunch or breakfast. They were just having breakfast on him. On him. Not on him. Of him, I think, is what you want to say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dining on him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And I could see that, you know, there was no way he was going to be able to get to the hospital and live because his guts were out. You know, you'd have to pick up his intestines and put them in a Walmart bag and carry them with him, you know. Yeah. Got to grab his spleen and put that in there. So she said, I didn't think he had got any more to live than just a few more minutes. But, you know. And he didn't say anything. He was just moaning. So they said, so but you went back into your house, right? And they like. And she said, yeah, I went back up and got my rifle and I saw. And I shot him in the head. Like, duh. What the fuck would you do? Like, she says it like, very. Like, obviously I would shoot him in the head. I mean. Yeah, like, he was just. I don't know if she just thought of the people that worked on her property as like, other farm animals. Like, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, everything that's here, you. You put it out of its misery. Especially if their guts are hanging out, they can throw over their shoulder like a Continental soldier.

[James Petregallo]

That's a problem. So I don't know if she just thought, like, well, if a goat of mine wandered into the pig pen and got half eaten, I'd put the goat out of its misery. Like, I don't know if she just thought Of Robert as, like, a goat or, like, I don't know what goats.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And people are on the same level.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if just living by yourself on this property for a while would make you kind of skew your. I don't understand it. But. No, no. Farmers don't kill people and feed them to the pigs, do they?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't have an agreement with the goat to build a house from the ground up.

[James Petregallo]

That's true. Yeah. I don't have an exchange beer for cheese program going on with any goats on my property. Some kind of welfare exchange program.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Her fucking view of people is really low.

[James Petregallo]

Like Michael said, Everything she said is odd, and it really is. Fucking weirdo. Give me the heebie jeebies or the hee Gee Gees right now. He Bee Gees. He g. Bee Gees. I rewound that like, 12 times to make sure. It's like, I can't misquote. He really says heeji Bee Gees. This isn't just me trying to be funny here, okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he thinks it's that. That's. That's the best part. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's like. And he said it, like, real, like, serious, I should give you the Heeji Bee Gees. You know what I mean? Like, he didn't stop and wait. Like, wait, that's not right. Like, none of that. So the cop asks, okay, you shot him in the head. How many times did you do that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great question.

[James Petregallo]

She said, I don't know. They said, more than once? And she said, I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't know?

[James Petregallo]

You don't know? So they said, so you're sure you did it once? You're not sure if you did it? And she said, I don't know. I don't know. And they said, more times. She said, I don't know. So that's the back and forth. And they said, well, after you shot him, then what happened? Let's go there. Did he die immediately? And she said, yes. And he said, and then what did you do? She said, quote, I went and fed my other animals, and I just left them there. Like, duh. What the fuck else would I do? And they said, so as far as you know, he was never moved from where the pigs are? The pig pen. And yeah, she. They said, well, what. What reason? Why do you think he was in there? And she said, I have no idea why he would go into the pig pen. I have none at all. And they said, were you. Are you angry? Were you angry at him when he came back? And she Said, well, I didn't see him come back, so I couldn't have been angry. She said, you know, he left for a month, came back, and next thing you know, he's being eaten by pigs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Came back to suicide himself in the pig.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Or I guess maybe try to steal pigs to sell. I don't know what her. I don't know what her. She's trying to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or he just came in, clocked back in, was feeding the pigs, and they got it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but she. He doesn't feed the pigs. That's part of it, is he doesn't go near the fucking pigs. She's the only one who deals with the pigs, so that's. She can't even say that. She said, you know, I was angry at him. Angry at him and my kid and, you know, all that kind of thing, and angry at my pigs for what happened. She said, I was angry at everybody. I was angry at him and the pigs. Bad pigs, bad pigs, bad. Ranch hand, bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's fascinating. She doesn't remember how many times she shot him, but she does know he died immediately.

[James Petregallo]

Immediately dead. Yeah. So they said, the pen area you're talking about, is that gonna be right by the south of the. Of the barn, but pretty close to the barn, you know, how close do you think it was to the barn where the body was? And she's like, I don't know. So they said, so what happened, you know, after you fed the rest of your animals and then check the, the, you know, the pigs, obviously the pigs are going to do what they're going to do. You can't stop them. All right, I get that. So pigs are going to be pigs. So if you, if they're going to come back to him, if you were ever. Did you maybe. Were you originally trying to shoo the pigs off? But, you know, like. But with leaving him there, obviously they're going to eat him. And she just says, yes. They said, did you ever move any part of him out of the pen? And they said, I mean, there's got to be some path. Like even, like, even some things that pigs don't even eat. Like you said, they don't eat clothes. Right. Like, they would be in there. Where are they? And she said, a few days later, when most of him was gone, I went and I picked up the clothes. I picked up a few parts that were left also. A few parts just said, you know, like a skull and an arm, and I'm not sure if there was the skull. If you go back out to my Barn. And then she goes, well, let me draw you a little picture. She said, what's left of him is in a couple of plastic bags right there. Okay. Pointing at the picture. Wow. She said. They said, so you shot him in the head? She said, well, I didn't want to miss, and I had to get close and shoot him in the head. And they said, was he laying on his back or to the side or anything like that? And she said, well, on his back. And so I didn't know. I don't know what happened. There's a lot of kind of that back and forth. So they said, okay, so he's lying on his back. And she said, yeah, I think there was no way for him to be alive for more than a couple more minutes. Went up to my house, got my rifle, but, you know, I just turned my head and I shot. Just looked, they said, and okay. And then. Did you see anything like that? She said, I did see his heart move. His heart beating. He said, I never. Yeah. He said, did you ever think maybe if you got an ambulance there, they might be able to do something about it? And she said, no, no, no, no, no. She said, no way. It was. They were going to take a half hour to get out there. It's the middle of nowhere. He was, you know, his guts are already out. There's no way. They said, there's no way he was going to live on past a couple minutes, you know, because she is a doctor also. So she said, and like I do with everything else, I don't like to see an animal suffer. I didn't want to see him suffering. An animal, right. What the fuck, man? Then they said, did you ever try to destroy anything you put into those burn barrels?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And she said, no, the clothes are still in there. They're all burnt up. They said, was there anything else you might have been in there, put in there and burned up and maybe, you know, it might have been in there and whatever? And she said, no, no, I haven't. I haven't emptied the burn barrel. So it's just hands full of ashes now. She's like, if you want to go through the burn barrel, there it is. I haven't emptied it, but whatever. So they said, were you worried using his cards, his card, after you knew he was dead, that you would get caught? And she said, no, that's dumb of you. Yeah. And they said. She go. They go, I'm a little concerned about this. They said, I appreciate you being honest with what you've told us. Interesting. So she said, though, there's the one thing though. Or the cop says, there seems to be something missing here, that a person that never goes into the pig pen never feeds the pigs. How does he end up in there? Mysteriously? Did he ever say. Did he ever come to you and threaten you or say, I'll kill your pigs maybe or something like that? And he was going in there? She said, nope, never came after me or threatened me. Okay, well, that's not an out then. Usually you give them the out before they admit to something, so that way it'll mitigate what they're about to say. She already admitted to murder and she's not taking the out. She's not taking the mitigator. She's like, nope, nope, just shot him in the head trying to help you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you're just telling us that you're a murderer.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you're just telling us. Wow. So they say, well, she's trying to say it was a mercy killing. So she said, he never did anything to me and the only thing he ever did to me was make a big mess. And I'm not shooting somebody over a mess because I've made a big mess before too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm a messy gal.

[James Petregallo]

I'm a messy gal. No bath in two years, messy. So the cop says, you got to see this through my eyes. I mean, honest, think about this. If you're me, this story seems pretty convenient and you know what's going on here. And she said, well, I don't know how he got in there or why he'd go in there. I don't know anything like that, you know, anything at all. I just don't know. So they said, well, if he never threatened you, never came up, you know, in rage and never did anything about this, never really pissed you off, never was mad about somebody stealing his stuff or doing anything about anything else. So she said, no, if he had come to my house and threatened me, I would have shot him and I would have called you immediately and told you I shot him. So she's like, if you threatened me there. So they said, have you. Are you frightened of the pigs? Are you frightened of them, considering they can just take a grown man out quickly?

[Jimmy Whisman]

She fear them.

[James Petregallo]

She said, no, I've never, I'm not frightened at all. I've never been frightened that I've had my 940 pound pig and that he would kill me if in a minute, if he wanted to. But he's very gentle. When he was about £400 or something, I walked by and I Was scratching the back of his neck, and he hit me with his head and put a cut in my left leg right there. That's the only time any of my animals have ever hurt me at all. And he was. He was not being mean. He wasn't being mean at all. He just twisted his head, you know, and he just did it by accident. So he said, I don't know why Robert would be out there. I don't know if he had been out there any time previous to that, and I have no idea what would happen to make them do that. She said, I could not look at him. I couldn't do it. So I just heard a little bit of moaning, and I saw his arm was moving a little bit, and I just shot him. Yeah. So they said you also mentioned that you don't like it when. If you had a pig out here in the barn, you wouldn't be able to shoot them humanely. Right. So it was important to have a good shot on the pig so they don't suffer. And she said that. They said, that's a human being asked out, laying out there asking. You didn't look. From what you are. You didn't look at what you were saying, but did you at least. Did you at least place the end of the muzzle somewhere close to where you thought? And she says, I was. I was probably maybe a foot and a half from his head at the end of the barrel? Yes. And there was a reason for that. I couldn't look at him and take aim or anything. He was laying there, I was standing here, and I went like that and pulled the trigger. But, you know. And they said, but you made sure the barrel was pointed at his head. And she said, yes. They said, let me ask you this, Susan. Is it possible that we might find someone else out there or remains from another person on your property somewhere? Is it possible that anything. We might find other things that aren't Robert? And she says, well, I don't know who that would be. Okay, interesting. And she said, I mean, this is all too much for me. I've lost my hair. She starts going into that, and they're like, whoa. She said, it's. Yeah. She said, it's just very hard for me to sit here right now and even talk about it. I just mean. Just. I never leave my property. And I wouldn't have today without putting. I would not have today without putting my wig on. And I didn't wear my wig. She's freaking out because she's not wearing her wigs. Got a Bald head, totally, totally bald hat, just, you know, shaved bald. So they said in your story about shooting Robert, I know that's true. You shot him when he was in the pigpen. And I know that's true, but where else did you shoot him? People don't always die from the first shot on the 22. Where else was he shot at? She said, I have no idea. They said, was he standing up on the first shot? And she said, no, no, he was laying down on the ground. They're trying to get her to fuck up here. They said, well, you know, we have the skull, right? I'm going to take a look at that skull. And I know how forensics are. And they go, I'm sure you watch that kind of stuff and you understand how these things are thought of. And they said, we can take a look at it and we can take it at all the angles and we can, you know, put all the layers in and figure out everything that happened. They said, if all those shots came from the same area, yes. And we can also tell if it happened somewhere else, you know, how, what angle he got shot at, all that kind of thing. They said, is there some other, Is there some other way that something we're going to see that doesn't make sense in your story, you know, like all that? And she said, well, I might have shot him six times. I really don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

They said, are we going to have an angle that doesn't match your story? And she said, I have no idea. I have no idea. He was on the ground. I know that's true and I know that, and I know that. They said, okay, but can I also. They said there's some other missing parts. What happened there? And they said, did you feel responsible? Did you ask him to go out to feed the pigs and now you're feeling guilty about that? She said, no. They said, did you require him, like cleaning up something else? And now you feel guilty because he was cleaning in there? And she just said, I was lying there, he was lying there, I shot him. You know, I don't feel, I feel guilty. Do I feel guilty for, you know, the facts that my. The pig ended up eating most of him. I do not feel guilty for causing his death. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you about Audible. Let audible expand your life by listening explore over 1 million audiobooks and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you all in one easy app. Tap into your well being with advice and insight from leading professionals and experts on better health, relationships, career, finance, investing and more. Maybe you want to kick a bad habit or start a good one. Either way, I love listening to these titles on on Audible. Right now. What I'm checking out, number one is Evil Ev E L about Evel Knievel and the Red Ripper about Chikatilo, the famous Russian serial killer. And it is really detailed, really interesting. Good listen on both of those and there's so much more. I'm listening to like 12 things at once right now on Audible. I love it. Get advice and insight from leading professionals and experts on health, relationships, career, finance, investing and more. There's so much opportunity to learn and more to imagine when you listen. Start listening today when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com smalltownmurder now back to the show. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about Chime. Life is full of extra fees. Boy, oh boy, they're everywhere. Everything you buy. There's fees everywhere. Buy a concert ticket or an airline ticket or anything like that. Fees, fees, fees, games, you name it. We're trying to make progress in life and we're trying to go forward. And then these fees hit you and you go backwards. You need Chime. Chime is a checking account that makes financial progress easier. You can move forward with this with features like no maintenance fees, fee free overdraft up to $200 or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Can't beat it. You can learn [e-mail] SmallTownMurder this chime is great stuff. You always need a little help. Somebody's you're always coming up a little short every once in a while. It happens to people. Unexpected things come up. Not only fees that Chime won't charge you, but you never know. You blow a tire out, your car breaks down, you never know when you need a few extra bucks and you might need it early. Make progress toward a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in two minutes at Chime. That's Chime.com Smalltown Murder Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp NA or Stride Bank NA members. FDIC SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in Spotme and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Oh boy, they said okay. So your gunshots are what ended it and she said, yes, and, yeah, shot him in the head. They said, did you ever point a rifle at anybody, Any other person before that? And she said, well, while I was in the Navy, if I saw something suspicious, I would throw a hand grenade at it. Which is really. I do that around my property, too. Just if you go to the mall or something, you see something suspicious, you want to throw a hand grenade at it, just in case. You never know. Grenades, you never know. So, yeah. So they said, so you value human life. Great. Sounds like you do. That's terrific. They said. She said, look, I'm trying to tell the truth. Then she says, I do not value human life very much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, you don't, because you tried to.

[James Petregallo]

Say, we know you value human life. And she said, actually, no, I don't. I'm going to make this worse for myself. She said, the only thing wrong with this planet is that there's people on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It valuing human life. Doesn't sound like me at all.

[James Petregallo]

She said, if all the other animals, you know, if it wasn't for us, it would just be all the other animals and dodo birds and whatever else would still be here. And the cop goes. Cop goes, okay. Like that's the weirdest thing anyone has ever said in a fucking interrogation. So they said, how did you feel about Robert? And she said, I don't know. I liked him, but I don't remember. So they said, do you watch crime shows on tv?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

She said, I like the British ones more than anything else. There's one called Rosemary and Time, and they go out and solve crimes where. I mean, it's one of those stupid things. You go out and trim a tree and find a body. Sure. And for the most part, it's things that are not plausible. You know, whatever. So that's what they're talking about. She said, I'm most comfortable at home, though. So she watches British crime shows, Rosemary in Time. Yeah, they can be a little. A little on the dull side. So she said that after a couple of days, she scooped up his remains, put him in garbage bags. Wild animal claimed. She claimed a wild animal must have got into the bags and dragged the leg out to where they found it. She said, but she didn't tell the cops because she was afraid that they would kill her. Pigs. They asked her to take a polygraph. She says, no problem. But before I do, you might want to get your pen and pad out because I got a couple more things to tell you. Okay, here's a guy. Stephen Frank Dell. Della. She Della Chino or Della Ceno, one of the two. He's born in 1953. So they asked, well, what else might we find on your property? And she said, I guess Steven Dellacino. And then she says, let me tell you this. And she starts saying how they met. She said, I guess he had a brain tumor and had epilepsy. He had brain surgery to remove the tumor. And according to his brother, that left him kind of not the same and that things were things that were not in his normal character. After surgery, about 20 years ago, I met Steve at the residence of George and Beverly Guerrero. He was a Seventh Day Adventist. And they had some property about five miles up the road from me. And Steve lived in a little Airstream trailer. And he did little jobs mostly just pulling up the grass and little things like that. And, you know, for the ability to live in that little trailer. George, the husband died and the wife buried George in her vegetable garden. Speaking of funny farm, what the fuck, man? I found the rest of Mr. Musselman in this case, whether that's gold or oil or. Mr. Musselman. Claude Musselman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So keep walking around, you may find his horse.

[James Petregallo]

Keep walking around. That's right. He had a horse. He never let alone. So they said. This is where. She said, this is where I learned that you could bury people on your own property.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, she can't.

[James Petregallo]

This is background from her from later. This isn't what she said in the interrogation. We'll go back to the interrogation in a minute, but I'm going to give you some background on this guy and their relationship. You can't. But I mean, there's ground and you can technically do it if you really want to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You certainly can. In. I think you got to get permitting or something for it. Right? You can't just fucking open the ground and put bodies in there.

[James Petregallo]

No, I think you need some kind of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's got some kind of paperwork somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Some kind of like a waiver or variance or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, you gotta make sure it's fucking zoned for that.

[James Petregallo]

Zoned for? Yeah, cemetery usage. I'm not sure that's okay. So they said that. She said, this is where I learned that you could bury people on your own property. And so she said, we didn't know if you need to get a permit or something like that. Didn't know. So she said, after George died, Steve started stealing from people up and down the roads. And like I said, he was slow mentally, and he didn't understand a lot of things. He didn't understand that you could sell something that was worth $500 for $100. All he ever wanted to do was get enough money to buy a case of beer. So he wouldn't try to get the best deal possible. Just enough. She said, he was a really nice guy. He was very much a gentleman all the time. He would open the doors for me and always wanted to carry things for me. Just a really nice guy. After George died, Beverly would not buy him any beer. Steve has cut off from the beer here. He was always drinking nearly a case of beer every day. One day he took a rifle from me that was worth about $300. When I noticed it was gone, I went out to the pawn shop and bought two more rifles. I was hoping that if he needed beer money again, he would take them. Because I was a contractor and I didn't want him to take the tools that I needed to work all the time. So she bought like fucking decoy items to steal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Steal these Harbor Freight shit and left it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, don't steal my circular saw. Fucking. Here's my. Steal this rifle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put away her Milwaukee stuff and just leaves out the shitty stuff.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, no Makitas today. It's for you. So she said. And then one day he decided he was going to Florida where he had a house. And this made no sense to me because he had been living in a little Airstream trailer for over 10 years that I knew him. And, you know, it was just irrational as far as I was thinking that he went living in this little trailer when he had a house in Florida. Irrational? She's talking about irrational.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a great point.

[James Petregallo]

It's also, wow, I can't believe she could even recognize irrationality at this point based on her statements to the cops. So she said he went ahead and asked me for $100 and all. And he called me and said that he was leaving. And I had tried several times to get him to stay where he was and move in with me. And then he called and wanted me to pick him up. So I picked him up. He was walking down the road, nothing but the clothes on him. Back in the car, he said he wanted $100. And when he was going to go to Florida, I tried to talk to him about it a couple more times. I gave him $100 from Oregon to Florida. $100.

[Jimmy Whisman]

$100 cash.

[James Petregallo]

$100 cash. I mean, I don't even know what you couldn't. It would cost you more to ride a bicycle that far. Is hitchhiking. I don't know. So and my next stupid mistake was that I asked him where, where, where he sold the rifle that I had. He went nuts. He thought I was going to have him arrested for stealing. She said basically she just want to know who she he sold it to so she could get it back. She'll go buy it back. She said. I didn't know at the time, but he had hit me so hard with the butt of a rifle that he busted my right breast implant. Oh no, that's a good shot to bust an implant. So he went nuts, thought he was being accused of stealing, took a rifle and busted out her implant. So she said, I was just really, really sore. I couldn't stand the pain much longer. I kept yelling at him to stop hitting me and he just wouldn't. Finally I had this, I had this little gun he had like a derringer. And I took it and fired it. I said, Steve, stop hitting me. You know, and, and are also. I'm gonna, I'm gonna shoot you. I went ahead and saw it, shot it again and missed. I was trying to shoot him in the upper arm. He pushed me really hard into the plumbing on my shower. I shot at the same time he pushed me back and I accidentally shot him in the head. Okay, accidentally, but all I did was make. All I did was something. I can't, can't read that part. When they did the autopsy, they found the bullet just in his scalp. All it did was make him bleed. When he started yelling, I'm going to kill you. I managed to get away for a couple of minutes. So he chased me into another room and up into the barn and we were fighting some more. I went and threw and then she shot the pistol again. And I managed to get a. She threw the pistol away and I managed to get a hold of the rifle that he was beating me with. And then I kind of. Then he kind of kneeled down to grab my legs. While he was grabbing my leg, I managed to turn a rifle around on him. I was holding off, holding him off in the room. And she said, well, I was holding on to a two by four to keep from getting me down on the ground. I went ahead and took the rifle and I shot him. He went ahead and grabbed me even harder and I was holding the rifle with my left hand shooting at him. I thought I had missed. So he was yelling and whatnot. And when he didn't die, I went ahead and shot him a couple more times.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This man took five rounds from close range weapons.

[James Petregallo]

My God, I couldn't believe it, but he was still holding onto my leg really tight. And I didn't know it at the time. I'm pretty smart, but, you know, nobody knows everything. So I've learned this that I heard about this thing called a death grip. So after some time I realized that he was dead after the first shot. And then I tried to get out of there. So, yeah, I let the two by fall that I was holding on to and I just tried to get out of the way. He was still holding onto my leg. So I dragged him for a couple feet and I was yelling at him to let go and yelling at him. I wasn't dead, he's already dead. I wasn't calling the sheriffs or anything. And then I decided to go out to the other door that was in the barn there. I went to my big pen because it was closer and I stepped over Steve and when I stepped over him to let to get out to the other door, he let go, I guess of the leg. Finally I went out the door and I didn't even think about it, but I didn't close the door. I was just trying to get away from him. So I managed to get out the side door of the barn and then I went out the gate that leads to the front part of the barn. I went out that gate, came around, went into my little room and barricaded the door so Steve couldn't get in. Okay, just shot the fuck out of him. I went ahead and cleaned myself up. I had blood on my back from where I had been pushed into the plumbing. And then I just waited there. I just sat there cleaning myself up a little bit. I think it was about an hour, an hour and a half. I don't know how long it is, but I yelled for Steve and didn't hear any answer. So I thought he had left. You don't know how bullets work very well. And then I went down and I went to where, where we had the fight. And he was just laying there and my pigs were licking him. And I went ahead and tried to shoo them out and I get a second one out while the third one of the first two would come back again. So every time she get one pig out, they'd come back and it was just like a wacko pig. So she said I was still reeling in a lot of pain, having a hard time standing up, so I figured they would just leave him alone. After a while. I'd come back in a couple hours. I went and laid down, tried to clean myself up a little bit more Then I went back out there to see what to do with Steve. And my pigs had dragged him, had dragged him out of the barn and there wasn't anything I could do. Then I just figured out just wait till morning. So I got up early the next morning and went out. They had been eating on him the next day. I mean, wow. I tried to get Steve away from them, but it was, it was useless. I mean, my pigs all day, they weighed three or 400 pounds and they, you know, so yeah, they just kept eating the pigs. She said she kept, they kept eating the guy. So she said I never went in anywhere around the pigs in the pen without a broom handle. That's what I usually had. So the broom handle or just the back of your hand, if you hit a pig on the nose, it'll back up. They don't like being hit on the nose. So she said, also, she said they're very strong. You can take a bunch of bananas and throw them underneath a Volkswagen and they will take the top of their nose and they will lift that Volkswagen up and turn it over to get to those bananas, meaning a bunch of pigs. She said they're very powerful. Yeah. She said you could take a two by four and bust it over their heads. And they just kind of look at you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We got it, lady.

[James Petregallo]

We knew they're strong and they eat people. Any other examples?

[Jimmy Whisman]

If an elevator falls down, they could save the people.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing you see here. The thing is, if you're on the island from Lost, right, and you had a pig. So she said, what I'm saying is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They shouldn't do horsepower. It's been baffling me my whole life.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, let's find about pig power. I mean, they don't run real fast, but I mean for a, for just a straight strength, like maybe for bulldozers and shit, they could be pig powered.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We should do torque in pig power.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, she said, the next day I took my backhoe and I put my backhoe over the next next close next to the fence I dug a hole and then when I put it back in over the fence, I went to the pig pen. I managed to get Steve into the bucket so I could lift him over the fence and then went ahead and buried Steve. I just put him down in the grave and then I took a shovel and I shoveled some dirt on top of him and that's all I could do for the day, man. So that's what happened, is that's what she says happened to Steve. That's what she says, like nowadays. A couple years ago, she said that about what happened to the Steve guy. So back in the interrogation room, though, she draws drew a map of her property. In the middle, she put an X and she looked at the cops, and she said, right there, that's where you're gonna find Steve. So, yeah, the Steve Della Ceno was the handyman on his property. He was there a year before Robert got there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So that's. This was summer of 2012, this happened. So this is when she started noticing she could just disappear these kind of transient workers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So she, you know, she told them that two of her guns went missing, and she said she found them in his belongings and confronted him. She said they got in some sort of wrestling match, the gun went off, and she shot him in the back of the head. She said that he stood up and chased her toward the barn where she picked up the rifle. Same thing. She said at one point during the struggle, Stephen was down on his knees. She's above him. She picked up the rifle, shot him in the head, fed him to the pigs, and buried whatever was left. She said that she left the body in the pig pen, quote, until there was practically nothing left. This is what she's telling the cops in the interrogation room. So now she came in just talking about a. Buying cheese. Now she's admitted to two people being dead, eaten and buried on her property.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she said nothing about it to anybody?

[James Petregallo]

No. So they said, let me ask you this here, Susan. Are there any other dead bodies on your property? We know about Steven. We know about Robert. What else? And she said, and this is what the cop said later, quote, she told me that if she had told me about these 17 others, that she would then spend the rest of her life in jail. So she didn't want to tell them anymore. She said she had 17 other bodies buried out there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We got two is enough for the rest of your life?

[James Petregallo]

Plenty. Yeah. Just the one is good, probably. So she said, it's not that I want to kill anyone, but I get anxious if there's someone in my way. Anxious, and I kill them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I have an urge to murder when they're in my way.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, wow. She said, I'm not in the psychological situation where I would become a mass murderer. And you just, you know, go into a school and start killing people or going into a crowd and blowing myself up or something. Something like that. My general feelings when I get these anxiety attacks is more homicidal than suicidal. You know, that's what she Says, but she doesn't want to do any mass murder. She just wants to kill people who piss her off. Self preservation for causing her anxiety. You know how it goes. So then they go out and do a second search of the property, obviously here. And while executing the second search, they find the remains of both Robert Haney and Steve Della Ceno. Basically exactly where she said they were. He was in the bags. Robert was in the bags where she said. And he had stuff in the burn barrel to clothes and things like that. And Della Ceno was buried right where she said he was buried. So now they, now they. This is because at first they had said that she, she shot Steve because. Just because. But then when they come back to her about it, that's when she comes in with the self defense. Because he saw my guns, then attacked me when I said something about it. She says, quote, it's up to the medical examiner's office to determine the cause and manner of death. The most important thing at the time is that we have a suspect. That's what they announced to the public here. Now the sergeant here is Sheriff Sergeant Nathan Sickler had his video camera walking up the driveway to document the search here. And the camera, they say, quote, captured a cornucopia of code violations ranging from open raw sewage and improperly stored tires to buildings eventually condemned. Condemned and deemed unfit for humans. Yeah, it was the first time the far. The. The farms conditions reached the county's radar screens. But that was because there was. He had no trespassing signs up everywhere.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, and she probably didn't apply for any fucking permits for any of this.

[James Petregallo]

And that's the thing. And they said that we, they said, well, how come this was never looked into? And the person from the county said, we do code enforcement actions when we have a complaint. We never had a complaint.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right, A complaint or an application to do things. If, yeah, none of that exists, then nobody cares.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that they became sickened during the search of the farm and they had to wear breathing apparatuses while combing through garbage. You don't want to end up like Gene Hackman's wife there. That's not good. They said, we don't know. Yeah, they said, we don't know if it was something we were exposed to or what. But they got. Everybody got sick afterwards. The whole team got. They said, we don't know if it's the flu or, or whatever this was or. Yeah. Jesus Christ. So, yeah, they said they got to bring in special hazardous materials inventory before they can do anything. And Think about any cleanup crew. They said there's a preexisting unsafe condition there. Precursor knowledge of some risk would require some sort of hazardous site evaluation. Someone needs to evaluate the conditions of the site with the appropriate gear to be there. And that's certainly not me. This one guy says, not me, motherfucker. Nope. You need to get people in those nuclear fallout suits and get their asses in there, because I ain't doing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Those bunny suits are very useful here.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Now, the neighbors. What must the. What did the neighbors think about her? Because we haven't really talked about them. Some of the neighbors said that they're not surprised that Susan Monica's in police custody. One neighbor said that Susan admitted to this neighbor to having homicidal tendencies. Yeah. One guy right close by says, I walk my dog on this road every day. So it's become home for us, but a little nervous. It's right here in our backyard. So it's definitely an eye opener. Yeah. They said they're not used to seeing this in a small town. He says, don't see a lot of crime. Don't necessarily hear about a lot of crime. And that's part of the reason we live out here is just because of that. Another neighbor said, it's horrific. It's unbelievable, but surreal. It's the Twilight Zone. That seems to be the. This would be a Twilight Zone episode.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like, consensus is. Yeah, man, this is fucking. There's something on the wing.

[James Petregallo]

You go to a farm and you never leave. And it's like a weird. You know, like, that could be a Twilight Zone episode.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe it was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I haven't seen a book or.

[James Petregallo]

Who wrote anything like that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That guy. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Something. Yeah. So another neighbor said they were stunned to hear what's happening right across the gravel driveway of her Rogue river home in Weiner, in Weimer. She says it's unbelievable that it's going on in my little neck of the woods. Yeah. Can't happen here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the whole point of this.

[James Petregallo]

That's the point of the show. Didn't you know about small town murder? I always thought she was a bit of an odd duck, but a lot of people that live out in the country are odd ducks. Yeah. These are people who moved out. Either they were born and raised here or they moved out here because they don't like people. That's why they came here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or because no other reason to be here at people.

[James Petregallo]

They're not good at people. Yeah. This is kind of. This is like if you had, like, A like pieces from like, 50 puzzles that were, like, extra that you couldn't figure out. And then you said, we'll take all these pieces and try to make a puzzle out of that, even though they're from all different puzzles. That's what's going on here. These are all kind of discarded puzzle pieces that go out here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We just can't. People, we need to be out here.

[James Petregallo]

No. So they said that the neighbor said that Susan had people, mostly transients, in and out of her home. She said this neighbor said she was really hard on them. I guess they would scream and yell and have fighting matches and all of that. The neighbor says most people would usually only stay there was like, two months and then they were gone. Now we're wondering what it means by they were gone. Then another neighbor said, I didn't like the look in her eye, and it threw up all kinds of cautious signs for me. Okay. Yeah. So, wow. They said, it's going to be a whole lot safer for a lot of people out there, is what. One neighbor said a former tenant who lived in this area lived on the farm here. Patafon Panna is the name. Patafon panna told.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's very close to Hannah Montana.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That is Patafon. P A T I P H O N Padafon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Worker told the newspaper in the area that Susan not only fed dead sheep to her pigs, but also shot three of his pets and fed them to the pigs as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

She just uses the pigs as a garbage disposal. Apparently. This is. Yeah. He told the newspaper that before he bought a house and moved away, Susan Monica shot two of his dogs and one of his cats and used them for feed. When she killed my dog, I asked where it was, and she said, quote, in with the pigs. Holy shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A local resident says that you don't believe them, right? You just go.

[James Petregallo]

No, you think. Especially if they go ho, ho, ho, ho afterwards, like Andre the Giant. So they said. Local resident Bonnie Wheeler said that she occasionally did odd jobs for Susan last year and that Susan threatened her when they had a falling out. She said, quote, she used to talk to me, to me and my friend, or to my friend about killing me and feeding me. Where, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Whisman]

To the pigs.

[James Petregallo]

To the pigs? Yeah, to the pigs. A former worker here who did jobs on the property said, this is Mark Allen Riccardi. He said he knew something was wrong when he stepped into Susan Monica's property. He said, I never felt right. There was something wrong. He said he worked for her on Multiple occasions doing side jobs. He said at the time something was wrong and bad, and I could feel it strongly. He said it's been a couple of years since he's been on the property. He said that he left when she started yelling at him. He wasn't going to take that shit. You can yell at me if you're paying me money, but not to sleep in a barn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do we know when the first time she fed somebody to a pig or.

[James Petregallo]

Anything to a pig seems like 2012 is the closest because that's when the Steven Della Ceno was being fed to the pigs. She loves.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She loves British shit. I wonder if she Learned this from snatch 12 years too late.

[James Petregallo]

But not only that. That lines up with 2012. Lines up with when she stopped bathing and everything too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And hair started popping out of her head. So if you shoot people and feed them to pigs and bury them on your property, start worrying whether or not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You'Re going to get arrested.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you start stressing, you start getting anxiety, and then it fucks your whole. Everything kind of spirals out from there, I think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How do you make a chest cavity disappear?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know how the fuck you do that. You make a skull disappear. It doesn't work, clothes, everything else. So this guy says he could feel something was wrong and bad. He said, I'm glad I picked up my tools and left because I just find out now what's happened out there. That scares me, you know? He said that Susan also didn't pay him for the work he did. And this is something that he said he's heard from a lot of other people. A woman whose family member worked for Susan before said, a lot of times people say they didn't get paid. He said the Ricardi guy said even though he never got his money, he's glad he left. He said, I walked out of there and said, I'll never come back to this place again. And he hasn't. So, a little more shit about Susan here. Staff at the Rogue River Community center food pantry had some things to say about Susan who frequently came in there. Yeah, they all. Even the ones that didn't, weren't scared of her. Susan said there was something off about her, her personality. They said that she would visit about once a month for the last eight years or so. The director of the center said she was a very pleasant, generous person. It's the usual story. Oh, that person's really nice. And it's just shocking. She said, that's the director. But other people there, who knows that the director worked with her all the time or whatever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The director's upstairs in a chair.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. One other person said she was very standoffish, so I wasn't surprised. No, wasn't surprised. She murdered people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Makes sense.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She said that her family had done work on the property. She said Susan told her that Susan had cancer. She said over the past few years she lost her hair and she wasn't the same Susan that she started off being. Most of the pantry workers agreed with that, saying something was off. One person said she was kind of normal, but she was also somewhat scary. I felt uncomfortable and I can't tell you why when she would come in. So they also said that she lived like very close with her animals and always talked about her pigs. Now the DA's office and the medical examiner here positively identify Robert Haney as the belonging to the leg and the. And the parts in the bags. Yeah, so that is. I mean they knew that, but now it's confirmed. So they said that she was probably murdered. He was probably murdered in early September 2000, 2013. They identified him through the FBI national fingerprint database. So that's helpful. I can't believe that they still had fingerprint. There may be a. Something. How would they still have fingerprints? How would he still have fingerprints that long after?

[Jimmy Whisman]

How would. Yeah, how would they. Body itself.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I don't know how they would do that. I mean he was out there for over four months.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. That's not. There's. There's nothing. There's no tissue left.

[James Petregallo]

That would be the first tissue to go, I would think would be like that kind of soft.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unless it's mummified because I don't know. They've shown mummies. Mummies that have fingerprints still maybe thousand year old corpses on the side of.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think they. They were eaten by pigs first though probably.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great point. I don't know how many pigs are up there.

[James Petregallo]

Sucking, sucking on fingers, munching on fingertips there. So anyway, they said that they did an autopsy, but no information was released right away. Anyway, so Stephen Della Ceno. The authorities said that the Oregon State Police crime lab identified the remains of Steven Della Ceno also. He was 59 years old, by the way. Della Ceno, she hires these guys in their 50s to do like hard labor, which is weird. Yeah. And then like the Michael Bales guy was a real little guy, looked like he was maybe 5 foot 2 and. But he looked like he was like, you know, 28, 30, something like that. Like guy you'd hire to Move stuff around. Anybody in their 50s. I'm like, one day I work on this ranch, you're gonna have back problems, aren't you?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And not just, not just that, but like they're. They're 50 something year old men with like health issues like alcoholism and stuff like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. They're not healthy people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not a strong guy.

[James Petregallo]

They're mostly transients who. I don't think they've been taking that great a care of themselves, so. Or vagrants, as the one guy put it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So the medical examiner said that they found some of the remains in a plastic bag. And they testify later. A forensic anthropologist says that Haney's legs had been chopped off with an ax. An ax? Not even like a power saw. She took an ax and Kathy Bates to this fucking person. That is insane. Remember when we all saw Misery and went, oh my God, chopping his legs up with an ax, that's the craziest fucking thing I've ever seen. Oh, I'm sorry, that's the book, the movie. She bashes him with a sledgehammer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the sledgehammer. Right, right.

[James Petregallo]

In the book, she chops his feet off at the ankles. I got them mixed up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So with an axe, that can't be a one blow thing, right?

[James Petregallo]

Fuck no, no, Fuck no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got wail at that thing.

[James Petregallo]

I chop firewood. It takes more than that to get through a small piece of wood, for fuck's sake. Never mind a femur. You know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Split wood is not easy. And that's dried out. Ready to be.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. This is dry. This is. This is fucked up. So they said that the thigh bones showed signs of being gnawed by an animal as well. So they said that they could not determine whether the axe blows came before or after he died. Let's hope after. She said that Delacino suffered three or four gunshot wounds to the head there. So are there 17 bodies? That's another thing. They go out looking for them, they're digging up little. They have like holes all over the place. It looks like an army of groundhogs invaded this fucking place. They said that they found no additional bodies during a search of the farm. So she just made that shit up to freak them out or something. They dug more than 50 holes looking for people and didn't find anybody. They said also the pigs that she kept on the farm have been euthanized.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So she did all this and the pigs were put down anyway. Yeah, they got. They're like sharks now. Forget about it. A former resident of the property said he saw another person, said he saw Monica feed dead house pets and livestock to the pigs as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They got the taste of all kinds of animals.

[James Petregallo]

They got the taste for mammal blood. So they are going to charge her with two counts of murder, two counts of abuse of a corpse in the first degree, and one count of identity theft, which makes sense. She pleads not guilty. And this is before the pigs have been destroyed, by the way. She's pleaded not guilty and asked for donations so her pigs can be slaughtered and given to a community food bank. We don't want your people pigs. We don't want our bacon to. With the slight taste of vagrant. Yeah, I don't want that. What'd you make this morning, Stephen? No. So the judge ordered that she be held without bail. And she said, I'd like the people of Rogue river to donate a small amount of money so I can have my pigs butchered in the meat, given to the community center. Wow. So anyway, they don't even know what to say about that. They did say the center cannot accept any meat donation unless it's processed and Certified under the U.S. department of Agriculture guidelines. That's the way that works there. Gotta have that. So they said that the. She said they questioned whether the center would accept donations of pigs even if the meat were properly processed. Because they know it's been fucking human. It's been eaten. Humans. Yeah. No. So pretrial here. The trial council moves to suppress the evidence obtained as a result of executing the first search warrant. The first search warrant has some kind of typo or some shit on it. There's something wrong because in the beginning of her interrogation, they start reading the search warrant. She goes, well, that's wrong right there. So never mind. You guys have nothing. That's wrong. It's wrong. I don't know what, it's an address or something. But the argument focused on whether the use of a benefit card during that period was considered. Was considered sufficient enough to establish probable cause for a search warrant. So she's going to be on that to the probable cause. They said that the. The council did not argue that the search warrant was overly broad and allowing law enforcement to search the property. But beyond the dwellings, the trial court denied the motion to suppress. So at that point. This is fucking crazy. A Rogue river man who's accused of burglarizing the home of Susan Monica. They went in that disgust. What did they steal?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What were you gonna.

[James Petregallo]

Rotten food.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like there's raw sewage exposed on the property.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. Jared Garwood was convicted of attempted kidnapping and assault in March of that year, but was arrested again shortly after his release. He served six months for attempted kidnapping and assault. That seems light. But now he's going back to prison for burglary and mail theft. He was arrested last October. This is after. This is the year they. That she's in jail basically for burglarizing her home. According to the sheriff's deputies, they found several stolen items at his home. Attorney said they also picked up a bag of mail that wasn't his. During his sentencing, he asked the judge for another chance. Judge says you got six months for kidnapping, you stupid idiot. One more time, he said. I really want to get this together, your honor. I really do need. I really do. And I need this opportunity to please prove to you that I could do this. The judge says you tested positive. You pick up new charges. You're associating with people you shouldn't be associating with. So we are going to proceed with sentencing today. Two and a half years of prison. Fuck off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We told you don't do drugs. You're still doing drugs and you're stealing mail.

[James Petregallo]

Basically, we had conditions of your release and you violated all of them. And now you want another chance?

[Jimmy Whisman]

We'll fuck ourselves.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, go fuck yourself. Yeah. So during this, Susan is attempting to fire her attention, her. Her defense attorneys. They claim. She claimed in court that her attorneys are not properly investigating her defense. And they seem more interested in her mental health. Oh yeah, because they have to deal with you on a daily basis. So if you can't assist them in helping, they want to know if you're crazy. And maybe they can use that as something that helps. So interesting. The judge declined to let her fire the attorneys and let her represent herself. That would have been a fucking party. You think this Lori Valo trial is crazy, by the way. We'll talk about that on Patreon. But holy shit, this lady representing herself would have been fucking bonkers, man. They would have had to like sell tickets for that. Nope, they couldn't even. Like, there would have been thousands of people at court every day to see that spectacle of her arguing with people about what pigs eat and don't eat. That would have been crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And what the pigs names are. Do you remember Fido?

[James Petregallo]

My. Yeah. He says. The judge says he'll give her the chance to represent herself down the line, but not at this stage of the case.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe when we talk about sentencing. How about that?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So 2015, the trial comes around, she is allowed to represent herself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

But is also allowed to use counsel when she feels it's necessary.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So every day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so all the time. Now every state is different with what you're allowed to do. Like some states, you can represent yourself and you can have a council and you can pick which one of you interrogate, talks to whichever witness and you know, that sort of thing. Like Arizona. Arizona is different.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like they let you just do the whole goddamn thing.

[James Petregallo]

Lori Valo, I remember the pre trial, the judge told her, look, you can do this, but if at any point you hand it off to your advisory council, that's it. You're not allowed to come back on as counsel. You're done. We're not going to go back and forth when you feel comfortable. You're either your counsel or you're not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You're not on the bench until otherwise needed. You're not a specialty.

[James Petregallo]

You're going, you're doing nothing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Laurie's been doing it all. She can't. Nobody else can do it. Which is insanely detrimental to herself in her case. So it's really amazing. So in the opening statements, the prosecution points out that Susan had an evolving story. She's brutally murdered people. He said, quote, she shoots them in the head. That's what she does. It's real simple. She can say whatever she wants, but in the end, that's how she kills these people. That's how. Both guys were shot. Multiple gunshot wounds to the head. So they said, he talks about the details. They describe how the pigs ate them and the guts are spilling out and they're eating his internal organs. One guy said, one of the lines is they're licking the blood on his head. They're licking the blood of his head. Not on his head, of the blood of his head. Sounds like an overly dramatic Italian guy. He's licking the blood of his head. Of his head.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Body of Christ. The blood of Steven.

[James Petregallo]

Susan claims, yeah, she shot him to put him out of his misery. That's what the defense says. And then self defense is the other one. So one's a mercy killing, the other self defense, that's it. She said that, quote, they were doing their thing, meaning the pigs. Her attorney gives the opening. That's smart. And her attorney doesn't deny that she shot these guys. Attorney said she shot them and there's no denying that. But she said, now we can make no mistake about it. She shot both these individuals. That's a fact. But the shooting in themselves is not a murder. It's only murder if she caused their death and did it intentionally.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, then why shoot them?

[James Petregallo]

Not in self defense or not. Yeah. There is no law on the books, by the way, for putting someone out of their misery, quote unquote. There is none of that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is there not a euthanasia law?

[James Petregallo]

I think there is no law that says, yeah, if someone's dying, you can just put them out of their misery like they're fucking. Like they're a deer that got hit by a car. Yeah, that's. There's no law that says that. So that is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That came up Lang.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, that is not an adequate defense for murder. Is. I was helping. It doesn't work. They also stated that the majority, the first victim, self defense, second victim is a mercy killing. He also said the majority of this case is on her own statements. They said there's nobody else to say she told them otherwise or sought. Her statements have many contradictions and some admitted lies even on her behalf. She'll admit those. So they're like, you know, you can't. Are my clients completely undependable? How could you take her confession seriously?

[Jimmy Whisman]

She can't. She can't bathe herself. So you can't listen to the words.

[James Petregallo]

Now, one of the prosecution witnesses is an inmate that was with her in jail named Jordan Farris. And this Jordan Farris lady testifies that Susan admitted to shooting Delicino during an argument, then leaving his body in the pig pen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And also Monica signed her birthday card. Jordan Farris birthday card, quote, the sweetest murderer in Jackson County. Oh, boy, that's good. God. The inmate who's a 23 year old woman said, quote, I got chills from that birthday card.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She admitted during the direct examination this inmate that she was in custody for a while on a probation violation and that she had other felony convictions and that her most recent methamphetamine Delivery conviction was 2015. Susan's trial counsel indicated he didn't have any questions for the wit. Didn't cross examine this witness.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Which is interesting because the jury does not learn that Farris also had convictions for burglary, theft and delivery of possession of methamphetamine. They don't find that out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, they don't find out that she's just like a bad person all over.

[James Petregallo]

Bad at 23.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, I mean, a meth habit will lead to theft and burglary and metal. It all goes hand in hand.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's part of the addiction. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Part of the game. So then they Play videos here. They play multiple recordings of the interviews for the jury. During these interviews, Monica's version of the events vary greatly because we talked about from complete denials to admitting to killing the men to then having a justification about it and all that. Throughout the interview, she called herself a liar and stated that she didn't believe her own stories. While this is happening, she says they're showing the videos. She says, I can't bear to watch. She says in the courtroom. So, yeah, she's just making a scene. In the video, they show her saying, he was laying there and I was standing here and I went like that and pulled the trigger. And that's when she couldn't take it anymore. They bring in old Michael Bales. Mr. Heeji. B.G. over here. Michael Hee Gee, B.G. dickhead Bales, as he likes to call himself. He said, she's. Susan had always been nice, and I noticed a change in her. He said that she started acting differently when she disappeared. Real irritable and all that kind of shit. And then they talked to the other guy who said that she would yell at Robert. Not really a yell, more of a scold. Another neighbor said that about the holler here and yelling and screaming in the middle of the night and shit like that coming from there. One of the detectives that interviewed her testified regarding her changing stories. He testified that he was mad at certain points with Susan because he kept hearing the same story over and over again. And using Susan's own words, the stories weren't very probable. Like he would repeat it back what you just said and go, how can I believe that? And then she changed it a little bit to make it more acceptable.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How about this?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, what about that? Eh? Anything there? No? Okay. Dry hole. All right, moving on. So the detective also said that he did not believe Susan because she had lied to him repeatedly. That testimony was elicited during redirect examination there. This was after Susan's trial counsel asked him if he believed Susan when she said she was when she was being interviewed. Because he did not investigate any of the other potential suspects or leads that she provided in her interviews. The sheriff said that Susan pawn two shotguns immediately after. After he came to her property. No word on whether they're the same guns that killed these two guys. So another detective said that Susan told him she wanted to feed him to her pigs as well. The detective. I want to feed you to the pigs too, he said. They said, well, how'd you feel about that? And he said, it freaked me out, and I'm an armed policeman. Imagine if I lived on her property and depended on her for food. So here's the fun part. This is something that most judges will not allow, okay? Like, if Lori Valo testifies, her counsel has to ask her questions, that she can't go up and give a narrative or she can't, like, you know, say, so, Laurie, what'd you think about this? Then run up on the stand and go, well, I'll tell you, I thought this and that. Not allowed to do that. Okay. This judge allows Susan to cross examine a detective herself, even though she has not been doing this, by the way. So she's gonna get up and cross examine. She said it was her Sixth amendment right to be an active participant in the trial. And the judge hadn't specifically, you know, banned that or excluded that. So they kind of have to. She grills Jackson County Sheriff's Detective Eric Henderson. This is the guy, by the way, who she threatened to kill and feed to her pigs. She said during cross examination, what did you do with my pigs? And the judge repeatedly stopped her, saying she wasn't asking appropriate questions or following the rules of court. He even reprimanded her for disparaging Detective Henderson's character. But it wasn't just the questions that everyone was into. They said that at one point, they said, I want Robert Haney's family to step out of the court for a few minutes. I guess one day after this all happened here, she asked the judge to have Haney's family removed from the courtroom. And she said, I do not want to hear. I do not want them to hear what he just said, what he's going to say about the judge and the detective about that. It's going to get gross. So another detective here. I'm sorry, the deputy medical examiner, she. He said, I found his remains in a storage area talking about Haney went over the horrific details of finding bones near one of the pig pens. And this is when she got all emotional when they started talking about her pigs. Yeah, like lost her shit in court.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not about Haney. Not about a people.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no. They said there seemed to be a lack of her taking responsibility is what the one detective said. I guess they. Della Ceno. They had to match his bones with his brother's bones.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

DNA or whatever. So another detective testified to his experience interviewing many people over a period of time and his belief that Susan was never telling him the truth. So they tried to strike his testimony, and they did. They actually struck his testimony. Now, in closings here the jury was presented with lot of evidence that the remains of two bodies were found on her property. She admitted to killing them with various justifications and that she had either allowed the men to be eaten by her pigs or purposely put the men's bodies in the pig pen for the purpose of allowing the pigs to eat them. One of the two. The jury heard from witnesses about how the explanation was not possible, let alone probable. Yeah. First of all, you know, shooting in the head five times while they're still alive, and then he's still alive while his guts are out. None of this makes any sense. You shot people and fed them to pigs. That's what they're saying. The defense closing is this. This is a defense lawyer quote. Just because Susan, Monica is different and strange and weird doesn't make her a murderer. We can't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

We can't deny that she's an oddball, obviously.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Look at her. The pictures of her property. She's fucking weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But that's not.

[James Petregallo]

Come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not what we're accusing her of. We're not accusing. Being weird, exactly.

[James Petregallo]

We are accusing her of murder. She is weird. She can be weird and a murderer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She doesn't have to be a murderer because she's weird, but. Yeah. So the verdict here, the judge addresses the jury before deliberations, and the newspaper reported that Monica stood up, raised her hand, and began asking for the chance to give jurors one more demonstration on how she claims she shot Delicino. Absolutely not. Okay. That's an. Remember when they let OJ Make a statement? Remember when they made OJ Let OJ Make a statement before the jury went to. They let him make a statement.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Which the prosecution was like, he can testify. If he wants to make a statement, he can make all statements he wants.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You shouldn't be able to do that.

[James Petregallo]

They let him make a short statement. And this is kind of what's going on here. She's asking for that. She said, I'd like to demonstrate how I shot him. For 10 seconds, the judge ignored her. Then she put her hands in the air and said, I held the gun like this and just started doing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So the judge ordered her out of the courtroom, and the sheriff's deputies took her away. She just started doing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So I said this.

[James Petregallo]

I said this with the gun, and then I had him like this. Okay, that's enough of you, Susan. So one hour of deliberation and guilty of fucking everything, obviously. I mean, this is two murders that are on her property. She asked for sentencing as soon as the jury was dismissed, saying, quote, it doesn't seem to matter, so get it over with. The judge said, quote, you shot two people and fed them to your pigs. I don't know how else I can put it. You valued your pigs more than you valued people. It may sound harsh, but you're a cold blooded killer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, does it sound hard?

[James Petregallo]

Harsh? It's not really harsh when a jury just convicted you of two murders. It's pretty. That's how nice that judge is. Listen, I don't want to be judgmental here. I don't want to be too judgy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

As I'm a judge.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I don't want to be too judgy here, but you're cold blooded killer. You, ma'am, may fuck off. Two sentences with parole, but they're consecutive. So that's two sentences, two life sentences, two minimum of 25 years before parole sentences. So minimum of 50 years before parole. She's already in her 60s, so do the math. Yeah, that's not good. So, yeah, that's interesting. Now, the defense attorney said that he knew representing Susan would be complex, especially since the judge allowed her to cross examine a detective.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I knew this was gonna be hard.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this was. I was never gonna win this. I don't know what I was thinking. This is like, you know, defending Sarah Boone, basically. Like, I'm gonna look bad no matter what happens. But the lawyer said, in her eyes, I think she learned she was not going to be as effective as her attorneys would be, much like Ted Bundy learned and everybody else learns. And Lori Valo's gonna learn pretty soon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's gonna get it soon.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that they were not surprised, the lawyer said, when the jurors took merely an hour to find her guilty. Said she made multiple inconsistent statements before we were involved in the case. And so she had told three or four or five different stories. And it's difficult to convince a jury when your stories change that, okay, now I'm telling the truth. They said she definitely deserved a fair trial. And you know, there and thought that he tried to represent her with the most vigor possible. He said in the end it was about representing a murder suspect. The lawyer says, I knew what I was getting myself into. I wanted to try a murder trial I never have before.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This seems a good one to try because I know I'm going to lose, so it doesn't matter.

[James Petregallo]

And the rest of it is not any different than any other case. This is what happens if, basically, if you get a lawyer who's volunteering to do this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Even though you're absolutely going to lose. They're just doing that to try to get some notoriety out of the fucking thing. You don't want that lawyer at all. You don't want that lawyer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, first thing, stage time.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. First thing is, so how many murder trials have you tried? None. Okay, you're not my lawyer then. And a lot of judges won't even let you have that lawyer because then you can go back and say, ineffective assistance of counsel. You had some guy that never tried a murder trial before, so I mean. Yeah. So most of the time they're like a co counsel on them for a while before they get their own. And you have to work your way into murder trials. This guy was like, I've been doing jaywalking. But I thought murder would be fun. I watch Law and Order a lot and I thought, jesus Christ, if that goddamn Sam Water, whatever the fuck his name is, can do it, then why can't I do it? I think I can pull it off. So yeah, they said that now the farm here was frozen in time until. Because they went over this with a fine tooth comb here, looking for more bodies and parts and. And pieces. They said the piles of garbage, exposed animal bones and squalid living areas that contain no running water or workable sewage facilities. Jesus Christ. Became an afterthought when the murder was going on. When the murder trial was going on. So they said now, after the conviction and the sentences here, they said now they have a potentially very expensive cleanup of the property here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or you just a lot dig trenches and light it on fire and let.

[James Petregallo]

It burn the middle well, they have. The Oregon Department of Environmental Quality and Jackson county are the ones who filed a complaint. Basically. They said that depending on who instigates it and what they find, they can. It's going to be a pain in the ass either way. But they said it could be different. They said, we're in the early stages of this. We have a whole stockpile of chickens and eggs here, not knowing what's going to go first. Right now we're at ground zero, possibly trying to do this. Possibly trying to do something about this place. So. Oh, by the way, she will be held liable for the cleanup of the property financially by the county, even from prison.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just donate the fucking property, Right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Gonna have to. So she could. They said she could instigate cleanup procedures on her own. Deed the property to someone else who would take on the liability or watch government hired Crews handle the cleanup and wait for whatever the fuck they charge you. But the guy says that she's going to have to fund it. It's her property.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure is, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, the cleanup there, it's gonna be. They said no matter what, the sheriff's department has to be involved, basically. So you'll have environmental people going through with sheriffs looking over their shoulder, making sure they don't find any pieces of people anywhere. Holy shit. For 20 acres. Holy shit. I have 12. And I wouldn't want to go over it with a fine tooth comb. It'd be fucking horrifying. So 20 is a lot more. They said at some point someone would have to make a call, go in and do something and worry about the potential funding impacts at a later time. They said she could sell the property as is. But Oregon law requires full disclosure of environmental problems associated with the site, including the nature of the crimes that happened on the premises. So they'd have to say there's disgusting shit everywhere. We found a guy's body over there. This is where the pigs ate people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the bodies were here because somebody murdered them.

[James Petregallo]

The person in the house. So the records show she bought the property for $35,000 in 1991.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great deal.

[James Petregallo]

And the market value in 2014 was $272,240. Not bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great, but.

[James Petregallo]

But almost.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's like an.8 times her investment. She made 800% profits. Pretty fucking good on a property.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shit. In comparison.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. They said there's two outstanding liens totaling about $2,100 from a road construction company. But that's it. Otherwise it's her fucking house. They said that her. It's very interesting. Her attorney said her plans to hold on to the property at least until her appeal is over. She was still. She still thinks if I get. Go to appeal and get off. I need someplace to go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I gotta go somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The lawyer said she doesn't want to let it go. She is held at the Coffee Creek Correctional Facilities near Wilsonville. That is where she lives currently. Here. Here is from an interview that we were talking about earlier. Remember I was saying. And she did that interview from. From prison here. This is about Robert. She said. One of the guys that did a little bit of work for me, but I think it's. I think he's staying on my property. Was Robert Haney. He was a nice enough guy. He drank too, but he was a binge drinker. I think he mostly was a binge drinker because his daughter got raped. And he was really upset about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's still stuck on that.

[James Petregallo]

Stuck on that. A couple times a month, he'd get fall down drunk. One day he gave me $20 and said that he was going to work. I was thinking that he was going to work in Ashland. I don't know exactly where he went. I was thinking he was working in Ashland. He had asked me one time to look at the job he was working on because he wanted my engineering skills to design something to hold up a floor in this house. And that he was not. That he was. It wasn't a house, but a business. Whatever she said, I never did that. But anyway, that's where I thought he might have been working. So I took care of his dog for a couple weeks. And then all of a sudden, it turned into a couple months, and I didn't know what the heck was going on. And then his son called me and said he thought his father was dead and he was immediately missing. So. Well, you know, it's missing. He's missing as far as I'm concerned, I guess. But you know that. That should be your responsibility to do that. About a week and a half later, I went down to take care of my pigs in the morning. And because pigs are a lot smarter than dogs, if you go outside, you have a dog and they see it comes up right to you to get its food. My pigs, they know in the back of the barn where they get fed. So when they see me coming down to the barn, they'd immediately go around to the back of the barn and they'd sit there and wait for me to get to them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't go to you. They go to the food.

[James Petregallo]

They go to the food, which. That's what my dog does, too. Comes to me and then runs and sits by the bull. Hey, dude, how's it going? Hey, look, I need this. That's what they do. Hey, hey, over here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

See you. The bowl's over there.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, look. Come here, come here. Follow me. I got something here. Come here. So let's go this way. So in the morning, they were all standing around and in the middle of the pig pen. And I didn't understand what they were doing and didn't understand why they didn't go back to where I was going to feed them. So I walked into the pig pen, and there I saw Robert laying on his back. His guts were out and his intestines were out on the ground. And I heard this little moan. And so she basically says the same thing and said. She said Then and son called me and said his father was dead. So I'm goodness, another stupid thing for myself. I went ahead and said I didn't know anything because I didn't want his family to know he died. Whoa. Then she said a coyote had dragged off one of his legs. She said, I honestly don't know what I was going to do with his body. Steve was a good friend and everything. For years, when she talks about Steve here. And I wanted him very. I wanted him to be buried on my property, where he spent a lot of time helping me, you know, because it was nice. Robert, he was a pretty good worker. He didn't like to work, but when he did work, he was a good worker. He was, yeah. She said, I don't want to. He was very honest. He wasn't untruthful. I was charging him some rent and he came up and he'd have the rent money. And I tried to get him to do some work for his rent, and he'd say he was kind of lazy and something in that respect. So when he went ahead and gave me some stuff in exchange for rent, which I really didn't want, but I could use later, you know, he was. He would find some money and then get his stuff back. So he would, like, pawn shit to her. Basically, Steven and Robert were two different people. Steve, I couldn't give him anything to do unless it was very menial because, you know, he was a moron. She said that's what her claim was. So one day he was looking for work up the street and a friend of mine was chopping wood to sell for firewood. He nearly cut his hand off a week later. So he got fired from that job. And when he was working for me, I gave him a little saw to cut things with. I had him go out on my property and lower the limbs off of trees. So now PETA, the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals there, they said in a press release that they're negotiating with the Medford area outdoor advertisers to put up a billboard geared to remind people that the meat on their plate was once a living, feeling animal and encouraged everyone to extend compassion to all living beings. They're going to show. They're using this case to show, like, look, you keep pigs and look what happens to them. And if you eat a pig, it might have eaten a person. You never know. There's also a Pig lady movie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

Pig Lady. It's called.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This year, Tennessee director and writer and actor Adam Ray Fair transformed Monica's story into his feature filmmaking debut, the indie horror movie Pig lady, which is currently available, by the way. I think on shit, I think it's on prime. They said a friend from 10. This is, I guess, what it is. A friend from Tennessee who shares story credit, moved to Oregon, and every time I go up there, he'd tell me the story. It's a small town. You start talking to people saying you're making a movie about the. The Pig lady. And everybody gets enthused. Everyone knew her, everyone had a story about her. And someone introduced me to her neighbor. We had support from all the locals. All the stars aligned. I'm shocked that these people would be like, yeah, come in and make us look like some sort of fucking, like, you know. Deliverance part two up here. Go ahead. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We feed folks to pigs.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck. Most of Pig lady is set and filmed in Jackson county in Weimer and Rogue River. The known facts of the case serve as the foundation for a slasher story in which the fictionalized Monica, Sandra D. Tryon, a monstrous figure on whom the camera never keeps focus, prowls the woods waiting to strike her victims, usually with a machete, and leaves them for the pigs to eat. So this isn't based on anything except pigs eating people in the movie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's as much based on this as snatches.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, no shit. In the movie, they play two brothers, Hunter and Caleb, whose unseen father is a fictional equivalent to the neighbor mentioned by McPeek. Caleb only appears in the newscast prologue, after which time the timeline shifts back to three months to show how Hunter, his girlfriend Brittany, and their friends fatefully came to stay at a cabin in Oregon for Christmas. So it turns into that story of the typical young people going out to a weekend here. So, yeah, they said the production of Pig lady was significantly delayed as they were planning on shooting in March of 2020, and that didn't work out. So there you go, everybody. That is Weimer, Oregon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a place.

[James Petregallo]

The crazy fucking Pig Lady. That's what this is. It's a crazy fucking story. Wild, weird, kind of a dirty little strange tale of this farm. And we've had a lot of, like, weird body farms lately. Next week, no one will be buried anywhere on a property. We promise. There you go. So not good. They've been fun. They've been good episodes we're talking about Good. I know you were trying to be supportive, but it sounded like you were sick of it, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tired of this shit.

[James Petregallo]

Well, good. You find something different, then knock yourself out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fucking tired of this shit.

[James Petregallo]

Bring it here and we'll talk about it now. So anyway, there you go. If you like this show, tell everyone about it. Tell the world. Get on Apple Podcasts or any other damn place that you listen to. Podcasts, Spotify, anything. Give us five stars. It helps so much. It really does help drive you up the charts. And do all of that. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com get all of your tickets, especially tickets to live shows. We got the virtual live show April 19th. What if you're listening to this after April 19th? Well, is it two weeks after April 19th? Because if it's in that window, God damn it, you can still buy this. That's right. It's anytime. You can watch it 100 times, just like a regular live show, but in your goddamn living room. It's going to be so much fun. We can't wait. All the bongs and weird stuff and stories and pictures and we're going to be wearing costumes. It's really too much to turn down. Also, get your tickets for Chicago May 17 at the Riviera, or where is it? The Riviera. Right in Chicago. Malice at the Riviera. We were. We were on an 80s movie kick, and that's one of them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So vice versa. With.

[James Petregallo]

Vice versa. Fred Savage shooting that out. Malice at the Riviera. So anyway, get in there at the Riviera the rest of the year. A lot of these tickets are selling fast. Like Grand Rapids, Portland, all these places are sold out. San Diego's got like five tickets left if you want to go to, like, you know, Seattle, D.C. or Philly at the end of the year. Get your tickets right now because they're going fast. So get in there. Shut upandgivemerder.com is where you get those. You also certainly want to follow us on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram and Smalltown Pod on Facebook. Almost mixed that up. There we go. And then Patreon, God damn it, get your patriot on right now. Patreon. P a t r e o-n.com crimeinsports just like our other show. That is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You're going to get, first of all, an entire back catalog of episodes you've never heard immediately to binge upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week. One Crime and sports, one Small Town murder. And God damn it, you get them all. This week. What we're going to talk about for crime and sports, we're going to talk about Fraternity Hazing part two. We're going to get back into that because there was some crazy stories and we barely scratched the surface. So we'll just do a part two and then maybe another one a year from now or something. Then for small town murder, it's Lori Valo, Trial time. Lori Valo, Daybell, Whatever. She's defending herself. I'm watching it every day and it is crazier one day than the next. I can't wait to talk about this murder trial and just all the ridiculous shit that went on around it. So we'll get into all of that and more. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out, which happens right goddamn now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never ever, ever feed us to their pigs and leave us in garbage bags in their barns. Hit me with them right fucking now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This week's executive producers are. Desra and Dahlia, Gary Howard's kid and wife.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Happy birthday. Janelle Potts. Wait, no, it's Ryan's birthday. Janelle Potts, biggest fan.

[James Petregallo]

Oh. Well, happy birthday, Ryan. And thank you, Janelle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And Andy Wallace. His wife, Stephanie Wallace. It's her birthday.

[James Petregallo]

Well, thank you very much, Stephanie. And happy birthday to you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of people banging. Nine months ago. Rebecca Babald's husband, Trevor. Happy birthday. God.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Carol Braun is a wonderful woman yet again. She, she. She's been with us since the start, by the way.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She still pops in from time to time to say hello.

[James Petregallo]

And we appreciate the out of you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank you, Carol. Charlie and Queen Creek and her mama, Jen Pat. It's their birthdays.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Birthdays. Charlie, Arizona. Amber with no last name. William Thompson.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday, Amber. Happy birthday, will you guys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess everybody's got a goddamn birthday. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows. Janice Hill. Happy hour checking in at Amarillo, Texas. Liz Rockefeller. She came back through. Jessica Shaner. Sam Hibbard. Hibbard. Maybe it's probably Hibbard. Sam Pennard. Rachel Dean. Jody Dean. Denae Denon. Denna. How do you say the. The pasta?

[James Petregallo]

It's like that with a d. The like dene.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Penne. Penne. Penne.

[James Petregallo]

How do you say penne? Penny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You say penny.

[James Petregallo]

It's penne. But I mean it's penny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Talking about here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe it's Jody. Denny. We don't know. Rachel or Rochelle or Rachelle Buchanan. Katie. Evan.

[James Petregallo]

Daddy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dingus. That's not a name. Andrea Rafol. Tommy Hartman. Hartman. Jacqueline Hazelton. Victoria Hernandez. John Hyatt. Mike Disson. Dyson. Maybe Bo. Kitsis Katzis. Stephen Mueller. Alicia Collie. Garbage farts. That's disgusting. Jenny Cross. Andrew Shellack. Shalak.

[James Petregallo]

Sh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sh. Ben Allenson. Nikki Zumo. Aubrey McIntyre. Sarah Prill. Dale Fry. Garrett with no last name. Samantha Pierce. David Brown. Michelle Neese. Yeah. Nais. Mike Van Dorn. Uh, Elizabeth Rutherford. Rutherford. Uh, Devin Tyer. Uh, John Young. Monique Monique Reynolds. James Allen. Did I say that already? Maybe there's two Allen Collins. I don't know. Moving on. Brianna Jorgensen.

[James Petregallo]

Leslie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not gonna work here.

[James Petregallo]

What is this?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What? Compagnoni. Yonin. Compang. None. Compang. Noni.

[James Petregallo]

All right. It must be Italian because Jimmy can't pronounce Italian.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a lot of. That's a lot of letters. Sarah Samara. Samara Harris. Baloney with no last name. Ronald Ross. Sarah Jane Guidry. Angie with no last name. Christine Gilbert. Kim Bjorki. Marnie with no last name. Val's best mate. Valerie with no last name. James Prinse. Jackie Conklin. Stacy Gladden. Perhaps. What else is this? Jelena. Jeremic. Jacob. Jacob with no last name. What is the rest of this? God damn it. Sorry, I missed. What happened? Jacob no. Last A. Glow. Foglia. Igalo Rojo. Abby Blair.

[James Petregallo]

Close one there. Jimmy Kubiak.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Coach Kubiak.

[James Petregallo]

Save on Foglia.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is it? Foglia.

[James Petregallo]

It's a good save on Foglia. You. You were. You were going the wrong way there for a minute. Straighten right up. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To write this ship. Sarah Eaves. Connor Miller. Nips with no last name. But you know, nips are always good. Alaska. Jordan. Kevin Sutherland. Deandra Crosby. N and R. The letters nnr. This show brought to you by. Letters nnr. Antoine with no last name. I hope it's that Antoine from the very first. Your stupid opinions. That would be amazing.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that'd be great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can only hope we got him. We got him into it. Angela Robinson. Sarah Alves. Amanda Beckett. Laura Matlock. Christy K. Mary. Mary Kulkowski. Jay Soul. Robin Largo. Pam McCoy. Katrina with no last name. Donna Hagler. Zach with no last name. Andrew Meng. Perry Morgan. Caitlin Scagnelli. Holy Super K. 13:20. Ethan Proctor. Donna Dunnigan. My name is Renee James. Nope, that's Jesse Patched. Vibalette. Vibilette? What? Bible Vibelette. What is that? Starloaf. Al God or AI God? I can't tell what that is. Mary.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, Linda McMahon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is it?

[James Petregallo]

I said okay. Linda McMahon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hocut. Mary Hocut. Elisa Alisa. Eliza Taylor. Johnny Clamps. Chris Ott. Darrell These are the hardest names.

[James Petregallo]

Tough week this week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Vicki White. Well, she's dead. Emma Tulak. Wasn't that her name? That prison guard that took off with the inmate?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I think it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Emma Tulak. Welcome to Tulak. Mike Wilbur. Savannah Mumbauer. Patrick Moore. Christine Stevens. Younger. Jason Ross. Emily. Oh, Rockamore. Rockamore. Rockham. All they can take. Kim Deaver. Samantha Roth. Monica Roth. There it is. Slip Slider. Cece Harned. Harned. Heather Bodette. For fabulous sake. Or maybe it's just fabulous sake. He's. He needs all of our help.

[James Petregallo]

You know what? Let's all pray for fabulous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Daniella Lensley. Uh, Caitlin Ola Savsky. And a Viper. Morgan John. A viper has no last name. I don't know what a viper it could be. Could be not. Patrick Hanrahan. Ryan Cosser. David Dave Holmes. Maureen Street. Crystal Lee Olson. Elise Letham. Leet Ham. Maybe serial killer. Probably not. Joe with no last name. Patrick Smith. Rutherford B. Hammock. Destiny Scott. Rachel with no last name. And obviously every other. You guys are the best. Thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. Fantastic, wonderful people. We just cannot tell you how much we appreciate all that you do for us on a daily basis. If you'd like to follow either of us on social media, both of us would be preferable. Follow. Go to shut up and give me murder dot com. That's where it is. Drop down menu. Have some fun, keep hanging out with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bye.

[James Petregallo]

If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey in the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect he has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Manioni became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, Premeditated. Admit to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi Produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue. Finally. Maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system. Listen to Law on Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery. You can join Wondery on the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.