#590 - Murdering As A Family - Jonesboro, Arkansas

Summary

Summary of "Small Town Murder" Episode #590 - "Murdering As A Family - Jonesboro, Arkansas"

Released April 25, 2025

In episode #590 of "Small Town Murder," hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman explore a harrowing family-involved murder case set in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Blending meticulous research with their trademark comedic flair, the hosts unravel the complexities surrounding the tragic death of Mark Despain, delving into family conflicts, financial struggles, and deceit that ultimately led to his untimely demise.

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Introduction to Jonesboro, Arkansas

James Pietragallo begins by painting a picture of Jonesboro, a town with a population of approximately 77,520. He highlights its economic challenges, noting a median household income of $48,901, significantly lower than the national average. The town's history is marred by repeated disasters, including devastating fires and tornadoes, which James humorously refers to as "Old Timey Fires."

"[03:33] James Petregallo: ...a real weird case. As usual today. 10 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag like Express is."

Meet the Despain Family

The focus shifts to the Despain family, particularly Mark Despain and his wife, Michelle Kelly.

• Mark Despain: Born on April 16, 1977, Mark grew up in Jonesboro, graduating from Nettleton High School in 1995. A former football star, he worked alongside his parents in the family real estate business before branching out independently.

• Michelle Kelly: At 18, Michelle entered Mark's life, bringing along her daughter from a previous relationship. Their whirlwind romance led to a shotgun wedding in 1996, supported by Mark's parents, Jack and Tana Despain.

Rise and Fall of the Despain Family Business

Initially thriving, Mark's independent real estate venture flourished, allowing the family to upgrade from a trailer to a spacious four-bedroom home complete with a swimming pool. They enjoyed affluent lifestyles, including multiple international vacations. However, by 2010, the real estate market downturn plunged the family into over $2 million in debt. Mark's aggressive eviction tactics for non-paying tenants earned him numerous enemies, straining his relationships within the community.

"[19:20] Jimmy Whisman: He's right."

The Murder: Discovery and Immediate Aftermath

On August 24, 2011, Michelle returned home from work to find the house in disarray—drawers pulled open, broken glass scattered, and belongings strewn across the floor. In the kitchen, she discovered Mark lying dead with two gunshot wounds: one to the chest and a fatal shot to the head.

"[22:25] Jimmy Whisman: You're sharing circles in your. With your."

Michelle's immediate reaction was shock and fear. She called 911, expressing concern for her safety and the strange state of her home. The scene suggested a violent, intimate confrontation rather than a random burglary gone wrong.

Investigation: Uncovering Motives and Suspects

Detective Vic Brooks led the investigation, initially considering burglary but soon determining the murder was likely premeditated. Key areas of inquiry included:

1. Financial Motive: The family's substantial debts and life insurance policies totaling $1 million raised suspicions about financial gain.

2. Family Conflicts: Tensions between Mark and his father, Jack Despain, over business matters complicated the motive, suggesting possible internal family strife.

3. Affair and Embezzlement: It was revealed that Michelle had an ongoing affair with a 24-year-old bank colleague, providing him with financial support, including paying his rent and expenses. Additionally, Michelle was suspected of embezzling funds from the family business to sustain her lifestyle and support the affair.

"[33:29] Jimmy Whisman: That's supposed to Ben, but I ain't done it."

Key Evidence and Testimonies

• Surveillance Footage: Confirmed Michelle's alibi, showing her at the bank during the time of the murder.

• Text Messages: Deleted messages between Michelle and her father, Carl Kelly, indicated possible collusion. Michelle had been in constant contact with Carl on the day of the murder, planning the deceitful act.

• Witness Testimonies: Neighbors reported seeing a black man, Terence Odell Barker (Quelo), and a blue Mercedes circling the neighborhood on the day of the murder. Barker later confessed to shooting Mark for a promised payment he never received.

"[53:29] Jimmy Whisman: You got me."

• Johnny Hubbard: A tenant of Mark's who testified that Carl Kelly coerced him into involving Barker in the murder plot under the threat of eviction.

Arrests and Sentencing

The investigation culminated in the arrest and sentencing of several key players:

1. Terence Odell Barker (Quelo):

   • Charge: First-degree murder.
   • Sentence: 35 years in prison.
   • Notable Quote:

     "[53:28] James Petregallo: Yeah, I shot a motherfucker."

2. Johnny Hubbard:

   • Charges: Hindering apprehension and violation of probation from a prior drug charge.
   • Sentence: 38 years in prison.

3. Carl Dwayne Kelly (Michelle's Father):

   • Charge: First-degree murder.
   • Sentence: 30 years in prison.
   • Notable Interactions:

     "[66:35] Jimmy Whisman: You're a shit turd is what you are." "[66:36] James Petregallo: Yes, they helped put him in a house."

4. Michelle Kelly:

   • Charge: Hindering apprehension and prosecution of capital murder (plea deal to avoid capital charges).
   • Sentence: Initially 30 years, but released after five years due to COVID-19.
   • Controversy: Despite orchestrating her husband's murder, Michelle received a significantly reduced sentence and early release, raising questions about the legal system's handling of her case.

Case Reflections and Insights

Hosts James and Jimmy critique the outcome, expressing disbelief and frustration over Michelle's lenient sentencing and early release. They emphasize the gravity of her crimes—manipulating her father and orchestrating her husband's murder for financial gain—and question the justice system's efficacy in delivering appropriate punishment.

"[73:56] Jimmy Whisman: She clearly lied..."

"[74:22] Jimmy Whisman: Somebody. Where somebody's in danger right now."

James and Jimmy also touch upon the role of internal family dynamics and financial desperation in driving individuals to commit heinous acts, highlighting the broader societal and psychological factors at play.

"[67:43] Jimmy Whisman: I'm just giving you exact names and..."

"[73:37] James Petregallo: She pleads guilty to a lesser charge..."

Conclusion

The episode underscores the tragic consequences of familial discord, financial strain, and moral corruption. While the perpetrators face lengthy prison sentences, the release of Michelle Kelly after a mere five years leaves many questioning the adequacy of justice served. James and Jimmy wrap up by warning listeners about the dangers lurking in seemingly stable families and small-town dynamics, all while maintaining their engaging and humorous narrative style.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "[19:42] Jimmy Whisman: What the fuck?"
  – Highlighting a moment of disbelief over sudden suspicions.

• "[24:08] Jimmy Whisman: She probably just deleted the messages and didn't even think about..."
  – Discussing possible oversight by Michelle in covering her tracks.

• "[33:29] Jimmy Whisman: That's supposed to Ben, but I ain't done it."
  – A playful jab reflecting the hosts' humorous take on serious content.

• "[53:29] Jimmy Whisman: You got me."
  – Reacting to Barker's confession.

• "[66:35] Jimmy Whisman: You're a shit turd is what you are."
  – Demonstrating the hosts' candid and unfiltered commentary on the defendant.

These quotes exemplify the hosts' dynamic interaction, blending serious analysis with comedic elements to engage listeners.

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Final Thoughts

Episode #590 of "Small Town Murder" offers a gripping exploration of a multifaceted murder case, intertwining personal relationships, financial deceit, and legal intricacies. Through detailed storytelling and candid discussions, James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the factors that led to Mark Despain's tragic death, while also critiquing the broader implications of the case's resolution.

For those intrigued by the darker aspects of small-town life and familial betrayals, this episode delivers both depth and entertainment, staying true to the podcast's mission of unveiling the secrets that make small towns tick.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. We just give the stylist our sizes, style, budget, preferences. I hope we order boxes when we want, how we want. No subscription or any of that required. And they send all just for me pieces as well. Oh, like maybe you'd like this. And it's awesome. Outfit recommendations, styling tips. You keep what you love, you send back the rest. It's super easy. You can do it. And we are doing it because it's excellent personal styling for everyone. Get started [e-mail] STM that's stitchfix.com STM.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about Goldbelly. That's right. It's incredible. It's an unforgettable gift you can get. Hey, how about mom on Mother's Day? That's coming up. It's Gold Belly, everybody. This amazing site that we order from all the time and where you can get the most iconic famous foods from restaurants all across the U.S. this is great. We all move around the country and then we want the things we want from back home and it's not there. Or even from somewhere else that you just want to go to. And they'll ship it anywhere across the country for free in time for Mother's Day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Unbelievable. And there's so much good stuff on there too. There's so much good stuff. I mean, everything from the New York bagels. That's what we got, which is excellent. Gold Belly will ship gift worthy cakes from Ina Garten and Martha Stewart Magnolia bakeries, famous banana pudding, New York bagel brunch directly from the city, or even authentic deep dish Chicago pizza. If you're looking to make your Mother's Day perfect or you want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal, next Time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Small Town Murder. That's goldbelly.com code Small Town Murder for free shipping and 20% off your 1st order.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Let's bogo. The hoppin goods sale at designer shoe warehouse is on. Buy any pair of shoes in store or online. Get a second qualifying pair 50% off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yep.

[James Petregallo]

Must have sandals, sneakers and more from brands you love are buy one, get one 50% off at DSW, but only for a limited time. So hop to it, fill your basket and score BOGO 50% off at your DSW store or dsw.com hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station because we got some crazy stuff for you. As usual today. Very strange goings on today and some weird alliances. It's just a real weird case. As usual today. 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag like Express is. Before we get to that very quickly, head over to shut upandgivemurder.com what do you get there, you might ask? Tickets. Tickets. Tickets. And tickets. Also merchandise. Everything from coffee cups to skateboards. But tickets to live shows, including the virtual live show 4 19. April 19th is our 420 virtual live show. But you're saying I'm listening to this and it's already passed. Doesn't matter. You got two weeks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Still there.

[James Petregallo]

Still there. Two weeks to buy it, purchase it. You can watch it a hundred times, do whatever you want with it in that two weeks. Just like a regular live show, except in your living room. Can't wait. We got costumes that we think you're gonna enjoy and all sorts of strange smoking apparatus for Jimmy to be scared of. Gonna be a lot of fun. Also while you're there, get your tickets for May 17th at the Riviera in Chicago. The Night before in St. Louis is sold out. Done. If you wanna see us in the Midwest, that is the place to do it. So thank you so much for everyone that has. A lot of the shows toward the end of the year are already sold out or close to it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

If you want to come to a show, get those tickets now. Shut upandgivemerder.com also get patreon if you want extra stuff here. Patreon.com crimeinsports which is the name of our other show that you should be listening to because it's very funny. But check that out. And anybody, $5 a month or above, you are going to get a first hundreds of episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before to binge on. And then new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all, baby.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Every one of them.

[James Petregallo]

This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk. We're gonna go back to fraternity hazing and do a part two because I feel like we were an hour into it and I felt like we were two minutes into it. I was like, this is crazy. We need another hour with this stuff. So we'll do that then for small town murder, the Lori Valo Daybell trial that's going on in Arizona where she's representing herself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

And oh, boy, is that a party. Let me tell you some mistakes. I have watched every second of that trial. So we got some real fun stuff. We'll show you why it's a bad idea to represent yourself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't do that.

[James Petregallo]

They say anyone who themselves has a fool for a client and she.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You didn't go to school for this.

[James Petregallo]

She proves that rule. Let me tell you something, that'll be a lot of fun. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. That said, I think it's time. Jimmy, let's sit back. What do you say? Everybody clear the lungs. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Oh, hey. Let's go on a trip.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Shall we? Let's do it. We are going to Arkansas this week. Oh, boy. We know it's going to be something crazy when it's in Arkansas. It always is. You guys have some creative murders down there, let me tell you. Yep. This is in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Just kind of a little bit of a bigger town, but not a big city by any stretch of the imagination. If you've ever seen any of the West Memphis three stuff or any of that stuff, not a, not a real big place. This is in northeast Arkansas. About an hour, hour and five to Memphis, which is right there about two hours. The other direction to Little Rock, it's kind of in the middle. And an hour and 20 to Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas, which was our last Arkansas episode, Kill and Let Live, which is the one where someone had their family member killed. Then they ended up taking the murderer in when they got out of jail. And then the murderer killed them, too. So it's like, you know. Come on. Population here, 77,520. And it's bigger than it was at the time. Median household income here is low. Normally it's about 69,000 bucks. Here it's 48,901.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why is it growing?

[James Petregallo]

It's lower. Yeah. Because I think it's cheaper than Memphis maybe, is what it is. Median home price here, 197,900 bucks, which is under 200 grand. You don't see that a lot. It's real low. Motto. People pride. Progress.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You bet.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I was going to say there's a couple words. There's people there, probably, and that other parts. There's people. History of this town here. After the US Acquired Arkansas as part of the Louisiana Purchase, that's when American settlers started making their way around Jonesboro. Started out with hunting and trapping and trading with the local tribes and all that kind of thing. Permanent settlement was established here in 1859 when the county was established. Craighead County. There. Craighead, head of Craig. The first courthouse was destroyed by a fire in 1869. History should just be called Old Timey Fires. That's what we should. Let's go to the Old Timey Fire section. And tornadoes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've got Old Timey fire, too, for second semester.

[James Petregallo]

It's gonna be good. Yeah, it's a 2.0 old time. Yeah. That's good. You gotta have that. I think it's a prerequisite.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think so. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You have to have that to graduate. A store across the street from the court was rented. They just said, we'll take your store and use that as the courthouse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

As the courthouse?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Sit up by the cash register there. The judge that was destroyed by a fire seven years later. So that didn't work out. Either paper or plastic for your warrant. So then another building was constructed on the same site of the second fire. And then two years later. It burns. That burns. Are we sensing a pattern here? Stop building with wood. A major fire that destroyed most of downtown Jonesboro. So then they constructed another courthouse that lasted till 1934, when they just built another one. NATO took it. No, no, no. 1968, an F4 struck Jonesboro. That's the other part.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not on fire. It's being blown into the fucking Mississippi.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe if it's on fire and then it's blown while it's. It'll spread it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

At least put the fire out.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. 34 people died.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

It struck at 10 o'clock at night.

[Jimmy Whisman]

People going to bed, sleepy ones.

[James Petregallo]

May 27, 1973, an F4 struck Jonesboro, killing three, injuring 289. $60 million in damage in $1973. So that's like, what, 80 billion today or something? Who knows? Then a large destructive F3 tornado struck them in 2012. Are you sensing a pattern?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I hate how funny this is.

[James Petregallo]

And it's so religious there. Do you take a hint that God does not want you there? They don't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How do you.

[James Petregallo]

Literally trying to blow you away from the area. Does not want you there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess it pushes you the other way where you're like, please, Jesus, stop.

[James Petregallo]

I guess. I don't know. This caused severe damage to the mall at Turtle Creek.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the mall's all fucked up. The chess king is full of garbage reviews of this town. Cause we've never been there. I've driven by it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I can't now. I'm scared to death.

[James Petregallo]

Darn it. I guess you got to check the weather constantly. Jonesboro. Here's five stars of a review. Jonesboro is a very personal town. I don't know what that means. It is. It is a big town, but the town is small enough to make very personal connections. A lot has changed since COVID 19 and the tornado came through. The tornado.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what they're doing now.

[James Petregallo]

There are many changes that took place, but it has helped us to not take Jonesboro for granted.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. Or too seriously, because it's about to go away.

[James Petregallo]

He says he's gonna continue to support the town as it's rebuilding slowly but surely from this tornado that destroyed the mall.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The tornado.

[James Petregallo]

The tornado. Three stars here. This is a long one. So I'm just gonna read one line of it that's important. A lot of it is just boring. Tornadoes will be a constant threat to this area for the majority of the year. So if that scares you, you might reconsider moving here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If it doesn't scare you, what the fuck have you been through?

[James Petregallo]

What are you doing? Two stars. We're a military family. We had to move here since my husband became a recruiter. We've seen many other places. And let me tell you, for being such a small place, there's more shootings per year than El Paso. With half a million population, more than five times as many people. Other than that, we can't wait to get out of this mosquito hell and get stationed wherever as long as it's not here to anywhere else. Alaska. Great. I'll buy a parka. Fuck it. One star. Finally, mosquito hell. Mosquito hell. One star. I've never been to a worse town in my entire life. Crackheads are everywhere. I've seen villages in Serbia that look better than this trash hole. I've been to 16 countries and lived on three different continents. And Jonesboro is one of the most ugliest, most disgusting places I've ever seen. I will never go back for any reason, ever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rather be in war torn Serbia.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. And by the way, because we had a couple people in Wyoming get mad at us. These aren't our reviews.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't say it, man.

[James Petregallo]

We're just reading other people's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's on the Internet. You can see it.

[James Petregallo]

We threw a five star in there. We gotta have balance. I don't know. Things to do here. Local Fest. That's literally what's called Local Fest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Come see the locals.

[James Petregallo]

It says they're gonna showcase artists, artisans, businesses, comedians, musicians, and so much more. Oh, those poor comedians in that one. Poor comics. Oh, can you imagine between two bands with like a magic guy walking around with kids in the crowd. What a fucking nightmare. But they have a lot of music here. Yeah, I'll read them off. Lucas, Tyler. Zach Childers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know these people?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you do? No. Okay. Zach Childers sounds like the. That's a. That's just a country singer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like Tyler Childers. He's terrific. But I don't know this guy.

[James Petregallo]

Tyler, Zach, the same thing. If I ever hear a country song, from now on, I'm gonna go, that's Zach Childers. I know that. And everyone will go, yeah, probably. It sounds right. James Carville. Not James Carville. James Carville. Different guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And if somebody calls me, just be like, no, no, no. I'm talking about who wrote the song. The original Zach.

[James Petregallo]

It's Zach Childers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, you think this is Luke Bryan, but Zach wrote this.

[James Petregallo]

Zach knows what's up. Joe Bateman. That's Jason. Jason and fucking his brother, Zaden G, who's an Elvis tribute artist.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's one person.

[James Petregallo]

One person. Elvis tribute artist striding the blast. J Ray.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not Ray J.

[James Petregallo]

Not Ray. J. Ray. He made a sex tape with a different Kardashian.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No blowjobs from anybody.

[James Petregallo]

It's Jay Ray J. Ray Aaron Walters. Nathan Younger. The Last Monarchs of Fall. Just Jeff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that what it's called?

[James Petregallo]

Just Jeff? Hi, I'm Jeff Electric Voodoo Explosion.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Welcome to Local Fest, everybody. I'm Jeff. Here's Jeff.

[James Petregallo]

Welcome to Local Fest. Here's Jeff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just Jeff.

[James Petregallo]

Hi, guys. I'm just Jeff. Play you some songs. Zach Childers wrote me this one. I think you'll like it. That said, let's talk about some murder, everybody. What do you say we have this down? Down. This does not sound great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

All right, first let's talk about a man, Mark Despain. Or Despain, I guess it is probably Despain. Yeah. D, E, S, P A, D, D, E. Spain, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Spain.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Despain. He is born April 16, 1977. Parents names are Jack and Tana. Tana. T A, N A. Tana, right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm going with it's probably Tana.

[James Petregallo]

I guess it's Arkansas.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's Tana.

[James Petregallo]

Tana. The sound doesn't really exist much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And their mom tried to give her the name Tanya, but she said it real fast.

[James Petregallo]

A Y in there or an I or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She had that epidural kick in.

[James Petregallo]

She said Tana just Ta. There's an N and something in there. I don't know. Put it in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't feel my toes.

[James Petregallo]

And it's wonderful. Never felt bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I kind of like.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of like it. Grew up in Jonesboro. He's a 1995 graduate of Nettleton High School. He was a member of the football team. He's a big football star there and stuff. So kind of small town, Arkansas kind of guy. Now he meets a young woman when he's 19. He meets an 18 year old named Michelle Kelly. At the time and she is 18, already has a daughter from a previous relationship. So she's coming into this with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's a child through and through Arkansas.

[James Petregallo]

Busy when they met. She's 18, he's 19, and she's a pretty young lady. And when he met her, she was sitting on top of a car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's my gal.

[James Petregallo]

Which is on the roof, dude. And think about when mark is born, 1977. So he came up watching like Whitesnake videos. If you see a chick on a car that's just hot, it doesn't matter if she's hot. It doesn't matter if it's a 70 fucking 7 Nova. It doesn't matter. It's hot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Although license to drive did take all of the mystique of that being sexy out of it kinda when she was dancing on the roof in her high heels, just scratching the mother, destroying the Cadillac.

[James Petregallo]

But he still wanted to fuck her though, didn't he?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He did.

[James Petregallo]

You're destroying my grandfather's car. And I Still want to have sex with you. Why? Because you're on top of a car. I don't know what it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're sharing circles in your. With your.

[James Petregallo]

He on the roof. But to be sitting up there, forget about it. So they start going out. Before long, she's pregnant again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, man.

[James Petregallo]

She's fertile, this one. Yeah. You gotta be careful on this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you're leaving it in there.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. This is not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's making babies.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is not into. Which is weird too. Cause at the time, we're talking mid-90s. I mean, it's not like anyone. Everyone knew about condoms by then. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They were pretty. It's constant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yes. Oh, it was.

[James Petregallo]

If he was watching mtv. Every other commercial was for safe sex and shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was, for lack of a better term, rammed down your throat. We all knew so much. There were jokes, movies.

[James Petregallo]

They were everything. That's everything. So that is at that point and in Jonesboro, if you got a girl pregnant, you better marry him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're about to have a baby and get married.

[James Petregallo]

The last guy didn't take that to heart, but this guy does. Mark's, I guess, a decent guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Spain's a good fella. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they basically had a shotgun wedding. Mark and his parents here. Now her parents are divorced, her mom and her dad, Kathy and Carl there. So everybody was there and everything like that. Mark's parents bought them a trailer to live in, and Mark started working for the family real estate business. So they're not poor people, his family, at all. So they can help them out a little bit, which helps they get married. This is 1996. They get married and all that. Mark, by the way, happy to help raise the daughter from the previous relationship, doesn't care. We're all one family here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is us. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they end up having two sons. These two here, the one that was from the beginning of the marriage, and they have another one a couple years later. Now, after a few years, Mark and his family start having business problems. Sure. Meaning. Not that the business is going bad, but they are fighting about the business. Oh, yeah. He worked for a number of years with his parents, but had a big argument with them. So he leaves to start his own. Yeah. He wanted a bigger slice of the money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's going to compete.

[James Petregallo]

He's going to. Well, I think he's going into something slightly different too. But he wanted a bigger slice of cash. And Jack said no, his dad. And then that was that. The mom here said the fight really began between Michelle and Jack. Not Mark and Jack. Oh. But Mark stood up for his wife and that put pressure between him and his dad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's right.

[James Petregallo]

You're screwing my husband over. And she said, what? He said, who the hell are you saying anything? And she said, that's my wife. That's who it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The lady that wants the foundation under the house. That's who I am.

[James Petregallo]

You know the argument. Yeah. Lady would like to be on a fucking concrete slab.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So I guess that was a big deal. And the mom said that when Michelle said something then the dad just flipped out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

Flipped off the handle and really had a freak out about the whole thing. So he said, okay, I'm starting my own real estate appraisal and investment business with his wife, he said, with Michelle. So Jack was like, good, fucking fine with me. You do your own thing now. Jack later said, my wife and I both wanted to be separated from Mark and Michelle as far as the business was concerned. They were tired of it there. So Mark does his own thing. Michelle helps out. She's like the bookkeeper and does paperwork and all that kind of shit. Apparently Mark had some balls. Everybody said he bought some trailer park. Oh, that was. Everybody was like, that's a huge piece of shit. What are you guys. What are the hell are you doing? And he ended up flipping it and making about 100,000 in profit. So people are like, okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Piece of shit.

[James Petregallo]

What? Well, look at that. He knows what he's doing. So he figured out how to do that and how to flip things and that's what he was doing. So he starts making a shitload of money, starts doing really, really well. They move out of the trailer. They move into an absolutely beautiful, nice big four bedroom home with a big swimming pool and you know, whole deal, I mean, American dream shit. There they go. From the trailer to a big. Not only a foundation, a basement. Yeah, you're. You can go underground.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hole undergrounds for when that F3 comes.

[James Petregallo]

Through and then another one to swim in. Got many holes, my friend. Got many. Bought me a couple of holes today.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Smart man. He figured out you can sell shit and still make money off it. Yeah, Walmart's done it for fucking 50 years.

[James Petregallo]

Have to find underpriced.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Under undervalued assets, you can flip them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So around and make money.

[James Petregallo]

It's like people do on ebay or whatever. It was all kinds of stuff. Yeah, they do that with everything. People, they go out to thrift stores and just buy crap. So I can make $2 on that $3 on that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All of a sudden I got $5.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, look at that. So they ended up. They're working very hard, Michelle and Mark, and apparently, you know, the material things are aplenty. We're buying them, they're flowing, the kids get anything they want. They're swimming in the pool and, you know, all that kind of shit. They go on multiple vacations a year, and they're not going to, like, you know, hot springs. They're going to Jamaica and Cancun and shit like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Several times a year.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Real vacations. People that don't want you there and shit like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For a couple weeks a year each time.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like a week here, a week there. It's a lot. So there's an incident that happens known as the incident to these people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's the tornado.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. This is different. Yeah, this is a tornado that goes through their life. Apparently, Mark and Michelle found topless photos of Michelle's teenage daughter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nope.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. On Grandpa Jack's cell phone. That's the accusation. So, yeah, that was a big deal. Michelle would later say he just immediately stood up for Brooke and stood up for me. Brooke is the daughter. So the Tana ends up. Or Tana, whatever. Tana ends up leaving Jack over this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She leaves, Jack ends up that she ends up coming back to him. Because it was learned later on, it was found out that apparently Brooke had borrowed Jack's phone and the pictures were selfies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She took them herself.

[James Petregallo]

She took them herself on his phone. And he didn't know they were.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She didn't realize it. She didn't remember.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. Apparently she had taken the photographs of herself and was sending them to a boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

From Grandpa's phone.

[James Petregallo]

From Grandpa's phone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck, Brooke?

[James Petregallo]

She didn't have her own phone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

That's how she was sending them away. So then they blamed Jack, but I guess it came out that she said I was sending him a boy ended up coming out. Oh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So she probably had some guilt and then was like, now Grandpa's broke up the family.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now Christmas is.

[James Petregallo]

You're not even related to these people, by the way. You've already. And that's just a messy situation. A teenage girl who the hell knows what was going on? So they said there was never any charges filed in that case. And now Tana ended up going back to Jack and saying it looked like a cruel plan cooked up by Michelle to try to. But that would mean that Michelle went to her teenage daughter and said, listen, first of all, get your tits out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Number one, got a friend.

[James Petregallo]

Second of all, is there any boys that you'd like to see those? Well, here's what you're gonna do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Use this.

[James Petregallo]

Which would be maybe the worst parenting move I've ever heard of. Possibly I'd be close.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But what this also sounds like to me is they already don't like her.

[James Petregallo]

That's part of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is very evident.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And boy is it prevalent.

[James Petregallo]

But they don't put it past her to do that. That's how low they think of her. So yeah. And then Tana later on said, we found out later that Michelle had just decided to put Brooke up to doing that so that it would draw a wedge between us and the family. That is a. That's a big accusation. It would make more sense if the kid was just trying to do it. If she did it from one of her parents phones. She thought they might find it and figured Grandpa Jack doesn't know shit about ph.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Never see this.

[James Petregallo]

That's kind of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she probably.

[James Petregallo]

That's kind of Occam's razor. Anyway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Probably just deleted the messages and didn't even think about the camera, the phone, the picture's still staying in there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Who knows? Teenagers, their brains aren't formed all the way. So this is what happens. They're not good at this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or she forgot to delete it.

[James Petregallo]

So we don't put them in charge of anything. Cause they'll forget things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They can't even be in charge of their own goddamn lives.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, not at all. So apparently the father and son though never spoke to each other again after that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jack's done with him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And he's done with Jack. Yeah. So it's a big deal. So either way Michelle is tell that this is what happened and who knows. So Michelle here by the 2000 the late aughts here 080910 she's working at a local bank in addition to helping Mark with his business. There you go. Why is he. Why is she working if they're doing so well?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because they're not.

[James Petregallo]

Because they're not. Because it's real estate. 2010 banking is not a good time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To be in either.

[James Petregallo]

If you're a teller, I guess it's fine. I wouldn't want to be investing in anything. But for the real estate business that's tough times.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not easy. Now Tana said originally about Michelle, before the whole Brooke debacle, I liked her. And as their children began to come along, I thought she was a good wife and A good mother, and that was before. But she said he always worked hard, whereas Michelle spent money hard. That's what Tana said. But Mark would tell. He liked them to spend. He liked being able to provide. Yeah, that's a. I work hard so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That we can have a nice time.

[James Petregallo]

It feels good to buy your family shit. It does. It feels good to be able to provide things. So Tana said she liked to buy things for the kids. And it was always extravagance, including vacations at resorts. She said sometimes three and four times a year to Cancun or Jamaica every three months. That's. That's too much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a lot.

[James Petregallo]

That's a lot. I don't know who the hell you think you are, vacationing like that. That's great. That's. It's just arrogant, isn't it? Like, I'm.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Every. Every 90 days you're in another country, that's like, you may as well just live there. And that's what she wants to do. She wants to. She wants to be an expat and live somewhere opulent.

[James Petregallo]

She just wants to go out of exotic. They both do. They want to bring me exotic drinks. Yeah. The two of them, they want to take the kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Tana said the more money that Mark made, the more things she wanted. She liked to associate with people who had money. She liked to rub elbows with big. Why she was into it, I don't know. Made her feel important. It's the last thing I want to do. But some people like to be like, oh, I'm in with the important people who they deem important. So the problem is there's around 2010 and all that 2011 money troubles are coming up big. Apparently he went to Michelle's mother to borrow some money to get gifts for them and stuff because it didn't have any money. And she said he was kind of embarrassed to have to come to get money because usually he has a lot of money, but he needed to buy Michelle a birthday present. So it was bad stuff. A lot of Mark's rental properties were upside down in value. The banks are closing in on shit. Tenants are being forced out of the homes because they can't afford to pay the rent. So it's a lot. So he's kicking a lot of people out, pissing off a lot of people. By the way, as you can imagine, the guy who's booting everyone out is not a popular guy. So that's a lot now. Wednesday, August 24, 2011 all right, here's Michelle's day, went to work at the bank. She ended up going out to lunch with Mark that day and then coming back to the bank by like 1:30. And then at 2:30 she takes off telling the people at the bank she had to go home that afternoon to pick up some bills that needed to be paid.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's off early then.

[James Petregallo]

She's taking off early. Well, whether she's off early or not, she's going home. She's going. So she got home, she said there's no lights on in the house at all. Yeah, 2:30 in the afternoon. And what lights are you leaving on when you go? So she said the house was completely ransacked. They were just torn apart. All the drawers were open. All their shit was thrown on the floor. There was like clothes in the bathtub. It was a very weird thing. Broken glass everywhere, she said, all throughout the house, crunching glass as she walked around. A jewelry box had been opened in the bedroom, shit strewn about. So she walks all through the house. Then she gets to the kitchen and on the kitchen floor is Mark. Oh, very dead and very bloody. Oh, two gunshot wounds. Oh no, not looking good at all. Michelle said she shook his leg and said mark. And he didn't respond, you know, because he's got holes in his head. And then she freaked out. So that's what she said. She said that quote, and he was laying on the floor and there was blood coming all out from behind him. And I shook his leg and said his name and I looked around and there was stuff on the floor everywhere. And I got scared and I put it together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is not good.

[James Petregallo]

This is bad. I should leave. So she ran outside and called 911. She told the 911 operator she doesn't know if there's someone in the house and she's afraid for her own safety. So they told her, stay out of the fucking house, obviously. So she calls 911 and does all of that. Then she goes and bangs on a neighbor's house to try to get into their house. Nobody answers. So she called her mother Kathy, and then Kathy came to be with her. And then basically everybody ends up in the yard pretty soon. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our safest sponsor, Simply Safe. The days are getting longer. We got longer daylight hours, which means you might be spending more time away from your house, which gives burglars more time to rob your house. That's what happens here. FBI crime data shows that break ins are more likely during daylight hours than at night, actually, which you don't think of that. But you need to protect your home with Simplisafe's proactive security that helps stop threats before they even happen. We love Simplisafe because, number one, they're great. The alarms are great. The cameras are high quality. I love the fact that they can tell somebody and yell at them to go away from your house and they can call the cops. And it's easy to install. I was so worried when we first got it. I was like, I'm not gonna know how to do this. It's super easy. They have installation if you need it. But you can do it. If we can do it, you can do it. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's Simplisafe. S I M p l I safe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our fash stylish friends over at Quint's. Spring's coming up. People want to travel. You've been in the house all winter. You want to get out, you want to do things. Vacation season's here, road season for us is here. And we're going to treat ourselves to some of the little luxe upgrades that we deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at a fair price, like lightweight shirts and shorts from $30, pants for any occasions, and comfortable lounge sets. Also, you can get premium luggage options and durable duffel bags to carry it all. And the best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We like Quints a lot. I've ordered stuff. I have a leather jacket, I have sunglasses, Jimmy's got pants. And I'm looking for more stuff because we gotta travel.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they got great flannels too.

[James Petregallo]

They do. And I do need travel stuff too. So we need this for the road. Quince is gonna help us out for the road. And for your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quint. Go to quince.comsmalltownmurder for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N c e.comsmalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comsmalltown murder now back to the show. Police. Get There. And obviously looks like a burglary that went bad. Some. Maybe a. Maybe somebody can't pay their rent, perhaps, you know. So there's one gunshot wound to the left side of his chest and one in his head. Both shots from close range.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shotgun?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, just gunshot. Handgun? Yeah, pistol. So they said there appeared to be one gunshot wound to the left side of his chest through his shirt, and a second bullet wound in his head. That was the kill shot. It was inflicted from very close range after he'd fallen to the floor.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, from the first shot?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So he went down and they came over, finished him off. He said, the detective said, I refer to it as an execution style almost directly between his eyes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that how you refer to it?

[James Petregallo]

A lot of people refer to it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

I was gonna say, I refer. I came up with this term.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just coined a real nice one. Listen, it's called.

[James Petregallo]

I think it's kind of clever. I think people are gonna pick up on it. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I like to say.

[James Petregallo]

I like to say this. It's fun to say, but directly between the eyes. So that means he was probably still alive and had to see it coming. Yeah. Which is pretty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's fucked up cold.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they said Mark not only went all the way to the kitchen, but they noticed that on the kitchen table there is ice cream sitting there melting and his cell phone right next to the ice cream, about to have some ice cream. About to have some ice cream. So. Which is funny because that not funny. But if you follow the O.J. case really closely, Nicole Brown Simpson had some Haagen Dazs melting in there when this. All this happened. So it just made me think of that. So they said they looked all around and the cops said that the weird thing is that, like, TVs, computers, all that stuff not touched, all left alone. All that's left alone. High ticket item shit is all left alone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very easy to move, less traceable.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I mean. So they look at that and they're like, huh, that's interesting. The fact that his keys, cell phone and ice cream are right on the counter and the fact that he and his wife had went out and gotten ice cream and he brought that home, says that they think that it's probably he walked in, got ambushed, and was totally off guard, just put his shit down like a normal thing and somebody was there and popped out. So they're looking at the burglary and Detective Vic Brooks said, when I first walked in, I noticed there were some Papers that appeared to be knocked on the ground, and there were some broken glass and stuff like that on the floor. So they said that the jewelry case was toppled over, like somebody was looking for something. But as they look at the items that have been left behind, like the computers and TVs and all that thing, it's just a weird thing, too, and it's very personal in the forehead type thing. It's real strange. So then they said they believed that it wasn't a burglary and instead a planned attack because somebody attacked him before he even got the ice cream put away. So they got him, right then probably, if it was a burglar, they might hide for a little while or something. They're not going to be like, soon as this guy walks in, I'm going to shoot him. That's. That's a lot. So they believe the person was already inside the house when he got home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Had to be.

[James Petregallo]

And it said it looked like whoever entered the home that day was not there to steal but to kill. So what do you do?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the kill had. Nothing was broken or anything. But before they did it after.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, probably. Or might have broke it up beforehand, but probably after. I didn't want him to notice it. Yeah. So police go around and question all the neighbors on the street, and they are informed of two separate sightings that they thought were odd in the neighborhood. One is a black guy. I don't know if that's that or if it's just a black guy. They said they had never seen this particular black guy on the street before that day. So they also saw a blue Mercedes that appeared to be circling the neighborhood. Separate things. Black guy walking, Mercedes circling. So they were trying to figure that out. So they go, okay, that's something to put on the shelf for later. It's just somebody that was seen in the neighborhood. So they try to establish, does he have any enemies?

[Jimmy Whisman]

So many.

[James Petregallo]

And they're told by a shitload of people, fuck, yeah, I hate that guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck that guy.

[James Petregallo]

Like, he's got a lot of enemies. A lot of people told them that he was a ruthless, ambitious businessman who kicks people out of his places. And, I mean, he's just. He's an ambitious guy. He's a businessman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a tough way to be, but it's the only way to be.

[James Petregallo]

Doesn't make any fucking friend zone. Doesn't. When you're dead on the floor. People go, I didn't like him either. That's not great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, a lot of people probably.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so the day of this whole thing they only speak to Michelle briefly at the crime scene just to say you came in what time and to do all of that. But the detective said you're speaking with an individual who's just lost her husband. At that time she was upset. So I waited until the following day to conduct a formal interview with her. But they do a lot of other shit putting together before that. So they retrace Mark's steps because he wasn't supposed to be home at that time at that day. Oh, it's not a time when he always comes home. It's not like you could watch him and find a pattern. This was an aberrant thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So surprise somebody.

[James Petregallo]

So that. Or they're thinking either that he surprised somebody who thought he would be gone or this would be a person who knows exactly where he is even when he's not supposed to be somewhere they know. So that would be someone very close to him. So one or the other, either it's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somebody incredibly far or somebody incredibly close.

[James Petregallo]

Incredibly close, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can't be in between either.

[James Petregallo]

Real diabolical or just terrible luck for a burglar. One of the two on him obviously. More so Michelle told police that she met him for lunch that day. They went to a place close to the bank where she worked. She said she was back in her office by 1:30 and then left at 2:30 again to get some bills. And that's when she found Mark. And that is all corroborated by security camera footage and all that kind of thing. So does anyone hate Mark? They asked her who really hates Mark? Not just, oh, we got an argument with some guy at the gas station who hates him and her answer is his father. True, that's one A is the father. So she said. I mean I hate to think his dad would do anything like that cause it's his son. But he is just very, very cold hearted. Meaning the father. She said that Jack's just a cold hearted guy. She told them there'd been some trouble due to an incident that happened between a 13 year old. Brooke.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

At the time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow, that's awkward.

[James Petregallo]

Thirteen, That's. Yeah. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who found him? You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Did he find him? God damn, I don't know. I'd be horrified.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or did the wife find him fucked?

[James Petregallo]

That's horrible. That's a lot. So now Michelle's father, they talked to him too because Michelle's father works for Mark as a rent collector. So they talked to him and you know, anybody that would, you know, the business people. Do you know anyone that would hate him? And he said, this is Carl Kelly, the dad. Carl Dwayne Kelly. He said that Jack, that's the guy. It's Jack. He said, I've heard him threaten him in the past. He said, yeah, if I was gonna point a finger at anybody, if that's what you're asking. I pointed at Jack. That's what he said. He said, he's told Mark he's the devil. His self. His self. He's the devil's advocate, which is not the devil. The devil's advocate is a totally different person. He's told him that more than once and he believes that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Carl Dwayne.

[James Petregallo]

Carl Dwayne. He said, jack told Mark, I will ruin you and your family. I've heard him say that. Well, that means you motherfucker, you're part of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I went deer hunting with him and everything else. He treated me real well. Talking about Mark. Mark was nice to me and he said, yeah, Michelle said the same thing. He's got a really good relationship with my family, just not his own family. So they said, you know, they keep looking around and then everybody they talked to, multiple people, five, six people said the same thing. They said, yeah. Mark told me that if anything ever happens to me, look at my dad. He's the one who did it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My dad did it.

[James Petregallo]

So they're like, all right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He calls me Keanu Reeves.

[James Petregallo]

It's so weird. Such a strange thing. So detectives talk to Jack. Obviously they're going to interrogate Jack. And Jack says, we fell out over money and business shit and all that kind of thing. And that's what it was. And due to Michelle always. And Jack told police they should look into Michelle's movements the day his son was killed because he believed that she's involved in some ways, like some deflection.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Pointing fingers at each other. Yeah. He told police that his son returned home that day to get a bow for hunting. And Michelle would have been the only person who knew he was home. So there you go. Now he also said, quote, he was, he was hard nosed. My son. He was not a very good people person. As long as he could get that dollar out of you, he'd turn around and crap on you and walk away. You know, that's the way he was. Good kid, nice guy, raised him well. Me and his mother raised him right. We're very proud.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Turn off the old piece of shit.

[James Petregallo]

Turd off the old log here. Turd off the Old log, my friend. The detectives are taken aback that this is his son was killed that day. And he's saying this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're like, Jesus, dude, they said you would do it. And you're kind of telling us nobody.

[James Petregallo]

Likes my son, including me, that you would do it. And then he tries to. Jack then says, I think Carl was in on it. Oh, cd yeah. Meaning the father in law there. And my suspicion is that, you know, he did finally piss off Carl enough that he actually done something like that. That's. Once again, I'm not trying to point the finger. That's just a concern. That's what Jack says.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm not trying to point any fingers at somebody that I just gave you their name.

[James Petregallo]

I'm just saying a guy probably murdered someone. Not accusing him of nothing though, you know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you're looking for a murderer, I'd investigate Carl Dwayne.

[James Petregallo]

That's all I'm saying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And I don't want to point fingers. That's exactly what he said.

[James Petregallo]

You tell, you know, not trying to point a finger. Wow. Jack tells the detectives that Mark was constantly rude to Carl. He said, I have seen him personally, how he had just treated him like a dog. He said, Carl's told me that he's going to kill me personally. But he's also told my son that, you know, then why does he still work for him? That's the thing. Why would Mark have it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

We heard that about you.

[James Petregallo]

Jack claims also an angry Carl even waved a gun around one time. He said quote and quote and said I'll just kill your ass right now and had the gun pointed right at me. And he also blames Michelle. He said I know how he treated her. Pretty much like he treated his father in law. Does she have anything to do with it? That's another slight suspicion of mine. Not trying to point any fingers now. Not trying to say nothing about that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm just giving you exact names and.

[James Petregallo]

Facts and that's all it is there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not pointing any finger. But I know investigator.

[James Petregallo]

So they look into the incident. By the way. Jack told police that Brooke had been sexting her boyfriend. And Jack found the photos and threatened to tell her parents. But she told them instead and said that Jack had taken the photos and we're on the phone, what the fuck? And that's when that started.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She tried to minimize. Realize that she was maximizing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And also that there's selfies too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that didn't work either.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And it's so much worse.

[James Petregallo]

So when all that came out. It ended up that Tana ended up moving back. And Jack said, at that point, he said he was just fucking. You know, his life was a mess. He said, I could have opened up my own whiskey store. I think there's that much whiskey.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that he was drinking.

[James Petregallo]

Drinking. I drank too much. And typically, I don't drink. Well, that was just to kill the pain because everybody assumed that you're abusing your own granddaughter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

That's horrifying. Poor Jack. So they said, did this maybe drive Jack to take some revenge against these people? Now?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a pretty. Yeah, pretty easy jump.

[James Petregallo]

Jack said no. He wanted to reconcile with Mark.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'd rather drink and take it out on me.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said I'd want to reconcile with Mark. And also, Jack said, when that whole afternoon, I was miles away at my own house and the alibi is checked out. And people, you know, they're gonna check that out. But other family members came down to the police station and said, don't be fooled by Jack's tears. He's a violent guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is going on?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So that's a lot. That's a whole lot. So police check out his alibi, and turns out he was where he says he was. His alibi checked out. He was fixing his roof at home, which is the best thing to be fixing when you need to be seen, because everyone in the neighborhood sees you. You're on top.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You're standing on your house, making all kinds of noise. Your neighbors hate you about it.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking. Yeah. That's the most. Oh, he was roofing, trust me, because I was trying to take a fucking nap and just caught. Tap, tap, tap, tap.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was trying to watch Wapner fucking.

[James Petregallo]

Taking this whole thing. Judge Judy didn't like it either. So he also said, I didn't feel anything as being fake from him. He appeared to be a broken man at the time. The detective said, also about Jack. So now they have to widen their investigation, because Jack himself didn't do it. He was on the roof. Maybe he hired somebody, but himself wasn't there. So. And if you were gonna have somebody murdered, you'd probably go on your roof and start hammering that day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a great plan.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That's like you might go into. That's like when people will go to a store to be seen on the surveillance footage walking around. So it's very weird. So Jack, they said he just lost his son. So the detective said he was convinced that Jack's grief was genuine. He said from all the interviews and everything that I've done over the years, it was very obvious that Mr. DeSpain was representing and showing true sadness. So he's the first one to be cleared as a suspect when they verify all, everything where he was. So then they turned their attention to Michelle because they have to interview her anyway. And they find out from asking around that they weren't exactly such a perfect couple after all. Number one, there are two insurance policies on Mark, each one of them for $500,000. So there's a million dollars at stake here on one guy? She didn't say that at first. Then they said that they found out that not only that Michelle has been having an affair with somebody from the bank.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. For quite a long time, by the way. A 24 year old guy from the bank. Wow. Yeah, she's like 34, so she's going out and getting some live coffee.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So not only was she having an affair with him, she also paid his rent and bought him groceries and anything else, his car insurance and all she was paying for this guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's doing great evidently.

[James Petregallo]

Got a gumar on the side over here. She's got. This is like a mob guy with a second wife here. This is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That young man cracked the Da Vinci Code. That's genius.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I guess so. I think once people start coming up dead, I'm running away from the situation. Oh, shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't want the married one. You just want an older lady to take care of you. That sounds great.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. So the detective said, Michelle told me that she was having an affair with a co worker, a young man, I believe he was 24 at the time. Oh my God. Mark did not know about this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that detective said she was paying his rent. She paid for him to move, bought him groceries. And Michelle said in her interview here, I gave that young guy a lot of money. So they also found out that Michelle, they thought she was swindling money from the real estate business as well too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, she's got bills.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And Tana said they were in a tremendous amount of debt. I'm talking over $2 million.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of debt. And the detective said, looking at the books and everything, it appeared they were living well beyond their means. They were just spending money like they were still making it before the, you know, the market fell apart. So they said that this was causing a lot of friction at home. And then the detective said, I believe that Mark had finally become a little bit suspicious as to the events as they were happening. Michelle told the cops that Mark did not know about the affair. But the cops wonder if that's true or not or did he find out? So they ask him. They ask her, did Mark ever ask you for a divorce recently or anything like that? And they said, michelle, did Mark ask you for a divorce recently? And she said, he didn't ask me for a divorce.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What did he ask you for?

[James Petregallo]

What is that? Yeah, that's what I mean, if someone says that, I go, what am I where, where, what lines am I reading between here? Because that's not known.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What bullshit are you trying to pull?

[James Petregallo]

So the detective obviously got the same shit. He said, well, what did he tell you? Yeah, and she said that he didn't know if we would stay married after the kids were grown.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, that's.

[James Petregallo]

We're growing apart. That's not. I'm filing papers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I don't want to ruin the kids lives. I don't want to upend anything. Let's just keep it together till they graduate and then we'll just go our separate ways. Have adult kids with divorced parents.

[James Petregallo]

Well, once they're gone, they're adults. And that's not our. Yeah, not our fault anymore. Listen, you grew up without psychological damage. Now you deal with it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Go have your own children.

[James Petregallo]

Therapist is that way. Enjoy. You can pay for it too now because you're an adult.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, because you got your own insurance. But you get your own kids. You can make your own fucking traditions. You don't need to come to mom and dad's house.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so she said that he hadn't, but he also told her that he couldn't see the future. So they also discover here they find out that about all the debt and everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yes. That's like the worst thing you could say to somebody, you know.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, that's like, yeah, what are we going to sit here and stare at each other for the next 10 years until they go?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's so bad.

[James Petregallo]

So she though ended up getting a million dollars in life insurance out of this? Yeah, so. But the police don't have any ev against her or anything else. Surveillance footage from the bank where she worked confirmed exactly what she said. She was at the bank when this happened. Michelle met her father Carl at the bank right around the time they think the murder was happening. And Michelle, the surveillance footage confirms that. So that's, you know, I mean, what do you do also, what does that do for her?

[Jimmy Whisman]

A million dollars puts her still a million in debt.

[James Petregallo]

Well, if he's Dead. There's probably some of it. That's why. Yeah, it's probably a lot of. It's the business. Oh, if the business is in debt. That's not. That's not. Yeah, that's why you llc yourself to avoid that. So Michelle's neighbor here said that they thought it was odd that she was standing calmly in the middle of the lawn after her husband was shot. They said that she was just talking on her phone. They said she didn't appear to be grieving at all. It wasn't like she was running around asking for help and all that kind of thing. Mark's sister said, I think what bothered me the most was how clean she was. Like, her hair was still perfect. Her nails were still perfect. What would you. And they said, well, what would you have expected in an interview? And she said, oh, well, as brutal as it sounds, I don't know, some blood underneath her fingernails or something like that where she tried to get down to try to help him, you know, grab him and see if he's okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not just kicked his foot.

[James Petregallo]

Shake a pant leg. Shake a fucking Docker fucking leg real quick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Looks like you have a headache.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, no. And then run away.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. All right.

[James Petregallo]

Then an anonymous tip comes in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Someone who has nothing to do with any of these people called up and said that they know a guy who has been bragging around that he's the guy who killed Mark. Oh, okay. So they're like, okay, who the fuck is that? So the guy they say did this is Terence Odell Barker, known on the street as Quelo.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Quelo? Yeah. Old Quelo. Nope. So they bring in old Quailo for questioning here, and he denies being involved in Mark's death. And he said, I suppose, quote, I supposed to binge shot a motherfucker. I didn't shoot no motherfucker. So if he didn't shoot no motherfucker, you know, that's. Whatever. So the police go, well, we have evidence against you, because when we got your picture and showed it to all the neighbors, you're the black guy they said was walking around the neighborhood. You don't live anywhere fucking near there. You don't have any reason to be there. So what's up with that? They said, as a matter of fact, your cell phone records, also the towers say that you were right by his house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You were there.

[James Petregallo]

You don't know this guy, so why are you there? They said also that you were seen in a blue Mercedes right before. Just before Mark was shot. So they presented the evidence to him and he said, okay, I shot him. Oh my God, I did it. It. He just spills it all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's supposed to Ben, but I ain't done it.

[James Petregallo]

All right, I guess I've done it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've done this.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I shot a motherfucker.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got me.

[James Petregallo]

You got me. So he said that he promised to shoot Mark for somewhere between seven and $10,000, but never got a dime of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

From who?

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing here. Now who the fuck is driving this car? Because he's walking. Johnny Hubbard. Is his name Johnny Hubbard. Old Johnny Hubbard. Police found the driver and there he is. And Johnny Hubbard would say, yeah, Terrence Barker there, Quelo's the guy who did it. Hubbard said, quote, he said he shot him in the side, then shot him in the face.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly what happened. So they said everything lined up with the evidence as it showed. Everybody's admitting it. So they go, that's the thing. How the fuck do you know Mark, right? This show Small Town Murder is sponsored by BetterHelp Therapy. Number one. Can feel like it's a big investment because it's a. It can be very expensive over time. But your state of mind is just as important as your physical health. If you had a physical problem, you wouldn't be going, well, I don't know, I'm gonna go to the doctor and they're gonna send a bill. You gotta get it taken care of. So, you know, traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 a session, which that'll add up very fast. But BetterHelp better helps different. BetterHelp online therapy. You can save on average up to 50% per session. That's incredible. This is an affordable way to do this. Your mental health is worth it and BetterHelp will put it in reach for you here. And we are huge proponents of therapy because I know for a fact here I have my partner sitting here next to me because of therapy because it's helped him with a lot of problems and just give him the tools to cope. And that's what therapy can do for you as well. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com smalltownmurder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Smalltown Murder now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack sponsor. IQ Bar is the better for you. Plant protein based snacks made with brain boosting nutrients to refuel, nourish and satisfy hunger without the sugar Crash.

[Jimmy Whisman]

These things are amazing. My daughter loves them. And it's so hard to find a snack that a child will eat in the first place. And these have nutrients that are good for your brain. She takes them to her volleyball game and feeds them to her teammates, and they all love them. They have so many different flavors. They're amazing.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit from our friends at shutterfly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, shutterfly.com.

[James Petregallo]

That'S absolutely right. Shutterfly believes the moments that matter the most deserve a photo book. You want to remember these things. They're big for big moments. Weddings, graduations, that trip that you took that you've been saving up for for five years. And you know, that's a big deal. They're also for everyday moments, though. It doesn't have to be a big, giant thing. You can turn your Instagram feed into a coffee table book. You can make an annual memory book for your kids so they can, as the years go by, they can know that's there. You can create a family cookbook. There's endless possibilities. Let's be realistic here. Your imagination is the only thing that could hold you down. Here with Shutterfly, I'm putting together one of us on the road. That's one that I'm putting together right now. I think that would be pretty cool. So that's kind of what I'm doing with it. Here we have an exclusive offer for our listeners. New customers get a free 8x8 photo book with promo code Small Town at Shutterfly. Enter code at checkout. See promotion details for more info. But get your free 8x8 photo book with the promo code small [e-mail]. make something that means something with Shutterfly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So they discover that Johnny Hubbard knew Mark because he was one of his tenants. Yeah, one of his tenants. Johnny told police Johnny Hubbard, that Carl Kelly Michelle's father approached him about killing Mark, came to collect his rent, and was like, how'd you like to have free rent for a minute?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't pay. Well, you're behind. I'll wash it if you do this.

[James Petregallo]

If you drive this. So they discovered that Hubbard was one of the tenants and that Kelly, Carl Kelly had approached him about it. And the detective said, if you don't do what he tells you, you'll be on the street. Is that what he threatened? And Johnny said, yeah, that's what he said. We're gonna kick you out of your shithole apartment. So Terrence became involved when Johnny asked him if he wanted to make some money. This all started with Johnny Hubbard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I need your help.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So then they went to a church parking lot to meet Carl and discuss shooting Mark. The two of them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Them?

[James Petregallo]

Terrence said he would do it. Yeah, he said he had no idea who Mark was and never seen him before in his fucking life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't care.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't care. Seven to ten grand. So according to Terrence, Carl gave them the gun that was used to kill Mark. Yeah, he showed him Mark's house and told him where to wait. Inside. In the house. But according to Terrence, though, wasn't just Carl. He said that Michelle was giving her father instructions. He said the wife was giving the father instructions of where the guy was gonna be. And it was exciting going to me. Father daughter, father tenant. Then they find texts here. The detective said Terence Barker's statement is that Carl Kelly provided him with a firearm in order to do that with. But they think Michelle's the one calling the shots. They said that Michelle or Terence Barker. He stated to me that she was giving play by play to her dad. She sent him multiple text messages, including one sent the day of the murder at 8:20am From Michelle to dad, quote, has to be today. Can't live like this. Awful. This morning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is her problem?

[James Petregallo]

And Carl said, okay, can you get him to lunch?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fine.

[James Petregallo]

Don't. Well, you should probably leave then. Well, okay, let's murder him is the answer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm reshingling. But that was Jack.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck. That was Jack? Yeah. Jack's got. He's lucky he's reshingling that day. So the phone records indicate that Michelle and Carl sent several text messages to each other on the day of the murder, the majority of which were deleted the same day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Sign Phone records show that Mark didn't want to meet Michelle for lunch. He was saying, I'm busy. She insisted they went out for lunch, then insisted they go for ice cream after lunch, too, and extend the whole thing. That's why he had ice cream.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're not at the house yet. Let's go get cold stuff.

[James Petregallo]

We got. Oh, no, no, come. Yeah, I really want ice cream. Come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Eat apple pie a la mote.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. So the record showed that while they were in the ice cream place, she was in constant text with her father. Touch with her father via text messages.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a fucking psychotic woman.

[James Petregallo]

She's eating her sundae. Well, it's just my dad and giving.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

That is cold. Colder than ice cream.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Colder than cold stone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're about to die today. Hold on. Yeah, we'll take mix ins.

[James Petregallo]

We could mix up a cold stone on her body. She's so cold. So Michelle's mom is not surprised by the way. Michelle's mom and Carl have been divorced. And she said, I knew what Carl was capable of. That's why I divorced him. He had explosive temper. She said that he would never hit her because he didn't want to leave a mark. She said, quote, he would hold a gun to my head. Hold a gun to your head.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That doesn't leave marks?

[James Petregallo]

No marks, but scares the shit out of you. So basic plot. Police think that Michelle asked Mark to meet her for lunch that day, allowing Carl the opportunity to get to Terrence, get him, you know, going inside the house, setting him all up and waiting. A text found on Michelle's phone was initially supposed to be deleted by her, but was later used by the police to fuck her. She forgot to delete a couple of texts. Michelle pretended to be shocked when she found Mark dead. Obviously that's part of the whole plot, but, you know, we don't know. We know the real story.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's a bad woman.

[James Petregallo]

So the investigators discovered Carl had been talking to other people and told them that Mark had been physically abusing Michelle and he was tired of it. So they said that they found that no abuse ever happened, though, when they looked at him. So that was a lie. So that's kind of one of those. The investigation uncovers the also a total of a million dollars. So the detective said it was greed, it was money. And Tana said, it's always about the money with Michelle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my word.

[James Petregallo]

So what does Michelle have to say for herself when presented with all this? Bad, bad bitch. Got some splaining to do. Michelle, she initially denied everything, of course, and then she said, okay, you're right about my dad, but I wasn't involved.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe my dad did it.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. She said, my father was involved. That's how it works. But I didn't know that till after Mark was dead.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just found out.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So this is, you know, it wasn't news.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they went, well, you know. What are you talking about? The detective said, I have the man that shot your husband, the one that killed him in jail right now. She said, you know for sure?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, we know.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And the detective said, yes, ma'am, he's in jail. Okay. And then they said, at this point, I'll also be arresting your father. And that's what she said. My father? What'd he do? What do you mean? And the detective said, quote, yes, man, your father will be arrested for murder. I have all the information, all the evidence I need. And Michelle said, not Mark's father.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It wasn't the guy I thought.

[James Petregallo]

But I said, you should arrest him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The detective said, no, ma'am. Your father, Carl Kelly's responsible for setting up this. Setting this up partly to have your husband killed. Killed. So then she turns on her father and says. They ask her, basically, were you going to split the life insurance with your father and all that. So she turns on the father hard. Here. The detective said, the implications are. And everything else that's been gathered on this is that money's supposed to have been coming from you. He's greedy and lazy. What would he get out of this? Meaning your father. So you're getting all the money. Your father's lazy. What are you gonna do? And Michelle said, he would think that I would take care of him. And then she said that she doesn't quote, I don't wanna talk about this again. And he said, I know you don't. And then she said, I want an attorney. So they go, sure, he can talk to you in jail. Cause you're under arrest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't wanna talk about this anymore.

[James Petregallo]

The judge sets a million dollar bond for her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's funny.

[James Petregallo]

And they said it's because she, with all that cash, she could flee. So, you know, now she can give all that cash away if she wants to flee. So Terrence here. Okay, Terrence Barker in court. They take him to court and he agrees to testify against anybody and everybody that they need him to gives up all the details of everything. He doesn't mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't even get paid yet.

[James Petregallo]

He never got a dime for this. He killed a stranger in his own house for nothing. For nothing? Absolutely. They couldn't even find shit that was missing from the house. Like he just ransacked it. So if he's an honest murderer, he could have stole shit too. But he didn't. So he is going to plead guilty to first degree murder here. And he has told you, sir, may fuck off. 35 years in prison for you. Not bad, not bad. This is the parole up pretty quick, though. Now Johnny Hubbard is going to plead guilty to hindering apprehension and the revocation of probation from a prior drug charge. Now he is sentenced to. You, sir, they also fuck off. 18 years in prison, plus another 20 years for violation of probation on the drug conviction. And they'll be running consecutively.

[Jimmy Whisman]

38 years for that.

[James Petregallo]

38 years he just dropped.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All because he sold some weed a few years ago.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking not good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whoops.

[James Petregallo]

Whoops. Now Papa Carl, now he's in court, he's also gonna plead guilty. They have all the. I mean, it's just text messages. They can just read the murder plot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's gotta go today.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And everybody except for Lori Vallow, when you have text messages that show how guilty you are, they fucking plead guilty. Except she goes, no, that doesn't mean that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not what that means.

[James Petregallo]

No, I just said he was a zombie in context. So he pleads guilty to first degree murder during sentencing. Jack and Tanner are gonna speak to him a little bit here. Tana says, how could you, Carl?

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn it, Carl. Dwayne.

[James Petregallo]

I love when they talk directly to the. Not just like a. Like a speech like, this has hurt my family. You son of a bitch, Carl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Damn it, Carl.

[James Petregallo]

Carl, why are you such an asshole? Something about that directness of the of right to his face, Carl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's your fucking problem.

[James Petregallo]

God damn it, Carl. After all Mark had done, you just snuffed out his life without a thought of anything but the smell of money you thought was coming. Yep. She said that my son has bought you. Bought you your family home and paid for vacations for you. He did all this stuff for you and this is what you do?

[Jimmy Whisman]

His money is put me in a house.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, they helped put him in a house. So she said, this is how you repaid his love for his family. You've been nothing but the sorriest, low life scum, grandstanding blowhard bully from the start. Fuck yeah. Tana. Lay it down. Sorry. Is low life scum, grandstanding blow hard bully. Dude, that is like grandstanding blowhard bully. That's mic drop. Holy shit. That's awesome. She could be a rapper like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a worthless piece of shit, isn't he?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he is, Carl. Sucks, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She told him so.

[James Petregallo]

And he raised a terrible daughter too. They're just bad people here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Grandstanding piece of shit bullshit.

[James Petregallo]

God is amazing. That's. Sorry. Low life scum. Grandstanding blowhard. That's a lot to. It is for a regular person who's like flustered and under the. Under the gun. That's a lot to come up with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she wrote it succinctly but it's like it's not hacky. It's not from anywhere else. She put blowhard. Who gets called a blowhard.

[James Petregallo]

Blowhard bully. Grandstanding.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Grandstanding.

[James Petregallo]

That's great. She guys. It was like the scenes from do the right thing when they're all going racial slurs on each other. That's what that seems like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She nitpicked him specific as fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Lay down the so Jack also said the same thing. Called him a quote, piece of scum lower than anything I've encountered or heard of on earth.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was hacky until he was like, you know what? There's not even a word for it. I never heard of you.

[James Petregallo]

In Antarctica under the first ice layer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've heard heard tell down there, there's.

[James Petregallo]

A certain four celled shit eater. It's a four celled creature that lives under there and literally shits and eats its own shit and then re does it over and over again. You sir, are lower than pace of the shit that's been going back and forth around in there for 12 billion years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You 12 billion year old shit recycled shit turd.

[James Petregallo]

That's all you are. Just over and over.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're a shit turd is what you are.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. You've been in and out of this being 100, 200 times. So thank you, your honor. Thank you. Thank you. I was meant to say that. They'll let him say it too. They let him say anything on there. So they said that when his son's money ran out that Carl received thought that he wasn't going to get his money anymore. It wasn't going to get taken care of. So Jack said I was pissed at you from the beginning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is in court.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I've been mad at you a long time.

[James Petregallo]

Listen, piece of scum. I'm pissed at you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hello, Shit turd.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, Carl. Hear me now?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Shit crap turd.

[James Petregallo]

If I could take your life and bring my son back, I would, as they say in your stupid opinions, if I could give you zero stars, Carl, I would. So Carl says this quote, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm very sorry for What I had done.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Carl.

[James Petregallo]

And then he says, I wish it never happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a spineless coward.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he is a blowhard. He was a sorry, grandstanding blowhard, bully, scumbag, piece of scum, shit, turd, amoeba, excrement, whatever the fuck you want to call him. So then they said, this is the judge here. And said, this is the prosecutor saying, we have not entered into any of these pleas without the consent of Mark's parents. We've been able to obtain guilty pleas from three of the four defendants. Mark's parents have been in full agreement with our negotiations.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's fighting it.

[James Petregallo]

She's the last one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Well, they got all three of them, and all three of them agree to testify against her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So now they're putting the pressure on her to plead. Cause it's like we have everybody that's gonna say that you started this. And you're the one with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My dad's ready to say you're an asshole.

[James Petregallo]

Sorry. You know, you turned on him. He's turning on you now. And they say that, quote, we will now focus our sights on the final defendant, which sounds, like, pretty aggressive. Yeah. And he is sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off. 35 years in prison. Again, they say here. This is the. Oh, no, this is. Okay, yeah. This is the prosecutor again. With Kelly's guilty plea and sentencing. And thanks to the good work, Detective Vic Brooks and the Jonesboro Police Department, the state is one step closer in obtaining justice for Mark and his parents. Today's proceedings will allow us to focus our time and resources on the Michelle Despain case.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There we go.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy. So Michelle pleads guilty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What are you gonna do?

[James Petregallo]

She pleads guilty to a lesser charge of hindering apprehension.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Not conspiracy to commit murder. Hindering apprehension. Not even insurance murder. Yeah, Hindering. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's not even a hint or inclination that murder's involved.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy. According to the plea agreement, the state said they agreed to the arrangement due to uncertainties faced at pretrial motion hearings. So evidence they needed wasn't being allowed in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, the. Probably the fact that she was a beneficiary had to be because that's the only reason.

[James Petregallo]

Allowed in. Yeah, that's the first thing. There's no reason to not allow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The only thing with that. What are you going to fight with that? That's conspiracy as fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Totally fucked. So, yeah, they said potential risks. Risks to evidence admissibility during trial. The state's unavoidable reliance upon uncertain testimony from previously convicted defendants and the burden of providing unanimous proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She could say anything about those three.

[James Petregallo]

Guys and they could come up and change their minds about who knows. So they said she entered the negotiated. Plea pleads guilty to three counts of hindering apprehension and prosecution of capital murder. And that means she would not face a capital murder charge herself. As part of the agreement, she waives her right to appeal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which she doesn't really need to because we'll find out here nothing. So Mark's parents said they were afraid that if she went on trial, There was a chance she may be found not guilty. And they wanted her to serve something. So Mark's mom said. I felt Michelle was the ramrod of it. I think Carl and Hubbard and Barker were just taking orders. I just know that in my heart she said that. The detective, Vic Brooks, never gave up. He told me he would get her. And the day they arrested her was the best day of my life. They sentence her. You, ma'am, may fuck off. 30 years in prison. But whoa.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

That's in 2014. That's heavy. But she got the lightest sentence of the group.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thirty years on that charge is. That's intense that.

[James Petregallo]

But that is. She's up for. That's 2014. September 2019 is her first parole hearing after five years. And they let her out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No way.

[James Petregallo]

They fucking let her out in five years?

[Jimmy Whisman]

No way.

[James Petregallo]

Five years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a bad woman.

[James Petregallo]

Out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

Residents of Arkansas.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somebody. Where somebody's in danger right now.

[James Petregallo]

But she did five fucking. I guess six if you count jail.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And under the COVID of COVID they released her September.

[James Petregallo]

Before that. September 2019.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

The fucking tornado didn't even hit yet. No, the big one didn't even come through.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe it took her.

[James Petregallo]

From what I understand, she's still around. Wow. Yep. I looked her up. She's kicking around right now. I won't give her her location or anything like that Because I don't want anybody to bother try to fucking attack her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Be careful. She's dangerous.

[James Petregallo]

This is great. It's a dangerous chick named Michelle. Don't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dangerous.

[James Petregallo]

Don't. Don't. Yeah, that's bad shit. So that is terrifying. Five years she got for that. She orchestrated. She's having an affair with a 24 year old. The age doesn't matter. But she's having an affair with a 24 year old. Fucking embezzling money from the family business to do this shit kills. Has her husband killed, has manipulates her dad, her Father into hiring people to kill her husband for money. And she gets five years for that. That is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she's out.

[James Petregallo]

There's people sitting on death row for that. I just want people to understand that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That'S a dead ass. Serious.

[James Petregallo]

That is insane allegation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she did it. And she pled to it.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Amazing. Now, beware of her, but don't be aware of the other Michelle Despaines because there's a few of them that are actually well known.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, baby, just beware of her.

[James Petregallo]

It's not them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just in case.

[James Petregallo]

Well, this one I don't think you have to worry about. Michelle Despain Hoger. She's an Argentinian American luge athlete who competed for Argentina in the 2006 Winter Olympics.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

I think she's probably good. And you can't catch her anyway. She'll lose away from you. You'll never find her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just support her, buy her shirt or whatever.

[James Petregallo]

And then a Michelle Despain who has a book here on Amazon called the Late Bloomers Almanac cultivating mind, body and soul throughout the year, all year long. Yes. And I know this isn't this Michelle because the book came out in 2014 when she was in prison. So. Yeah, I don't think she was doing that. It's $29.99, that book.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Christ.

[James Petregallo]

Seems like, Steve, you must be a late bloomer if you're willing to pay 30 bucks for your fucking paperback. Not doing that shit. So there you go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

There's Jonesboro, Arkansas.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stay the fuck out of Arkansas.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. Tornado. If not tornadoes. Killer women and their fathers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why isn't that in the review? If tornadoes don't scare you, maybe killer women do.

[James Petregallo]

And their fathers. Yeah, watch out for that. Killer families. It's not even. Yeah, the whole thing. Because, I mean, she wouldn't have done it if she didn't have somebody willing to do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, because she couldn't do it.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think she could do it. And I don't think she would have known where to go to get somebody or. I don't know, but the father does. I blame Carl a lot here. So there you go. There's Jonesboro. If you like this show or anything about it, please get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars because it really helps drive the show up the charts. So thank you for doing that. Also, shut up and givememurder.com tickets for live shows. The 420 virtual live show takes place Saturday, April 19th. If you're listening to this and it's already passed. You go, oh, well that's no good for me. Yes, it is. If it's within two weeks of that, you can still order it, you can get it, you can still watch it 100 times, do whatever you want with it and get tickets for the Chicago, Illinois Riviera show that is going to be May 17th. St. Louis is sold out the night before. So don't let St. Louis beat you guys. Do you want to be second to St. Louis?

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

In anything besides, you know, the NL Central drunk coaches. Yeah, nobody can top them there. So do that. Come see us and come see a live show. It's going to be a lot of fun. Shut up and give me murder.com also, you want to follow us on social media. Small town murder on Instagram at smalltown Pot on Facebook. Certainly do that. Definitely get Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. And there's so much. Anybody $5 a month or above. Here's what happens. You subscribe, subscribe five bucks. You immediately get hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before. I mean, just a whole other stream to binge. And it's crazy. So there's so much there. Then you get new ones every other week too. New crime and sports and new small town murder every other week. You get that. So four a month and we do and you get it all. So this week, which you're gonna get for crime and sports, we're gonna dip our toes back into the fraternity hazing waters and hear some other shit. Last time Ben Franklin was involved in a man being burned to death a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Lot, they soaked him in brandy like a cigar.

[James Petregallo]

I'm telling you, dude, this is not. This is a lot of shit going on. And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about the current ongoing. By the time this comes out publicly will be over with because they're already doing jury instructions. But the Lori Valo Daybell trial, of which I've seen every second, the fun part, she's representing herself and it is wild.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. The fun part may be that we get closure in that episode about. That'll be so much fun.

[James Petregallo]

All closure. And she's got another trial starting though for the attempted murder of somebody else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The two of us might have some rage filled rants.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's gonna be fun. Oh, I've seen. I have had an assful, Laurie. I've watched her for six hours a day, dude. We sit there, I'm working every day. I'm watching Laurie. I know it all man. I can't wait.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You I know her enough to hate her.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. It's gonna be amazing. So check that out. And that is patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well too. Jimmy Will your name all up. Thank you so much for joining us. If you want to follow us on social media, you can do that very easily. Shut up and give me murder.com drop down menus take you everywhere you want to go that has to do with our shows. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. And until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bye Michelle.

[James Petregallo]

If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[C]

You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries and each week on my podcast you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors. So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries should be your new go to weekly show. Listen to Mr. Ballins medical mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.