#593 - Jerry Springer Show Murder - Sarasota, Florida

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder - Episode #593: Jerry Springer Show Murder - Sarasota, Florida

Introduction In Episode #593 of Small Town Murder, hosts James Petregallo and Jimmie Wissman delve into a shocking true crime case set in Sarasota, Florida. This episode uncovers the tumultuous relationship between Nancy Campbell and Ralph Panitz, culminating in a brutal murder closely tied to a dramatic appearance on the Jerry Springer Show.

Background of Nancy Campbell and Ralph Panitz

Nancy Campbell's Early Life and Marriage Nancy Campbell, born in 1948, led a seemingly typical life. She married young, had two children, Jeffrey and Gary, and became a single mother after her husband tragically died when her sons were still young. Nancy was known for being a strong, independent, and reserved woman, prioritizing her family and rarely seeking attention or engaging in dating post-divorce.

Ralph Panitz's Introduction Ralph Panitz, twelve years younger than Nancy, initially connected with her through AOL chat rooms in the late 1990s. A German painting contractor recently divorced after sixteen years of marriage, Ralph sought companionship online. "James Petregallo James: 'She's a really good mother... She's a very nice lady,'" described Jeffrey Campbell, Nancy's son, emphasizing her nurturing nature.

Relationship Dynamics

Marriage and Domestic Turmoil After a year of online communication, Ralph flew to the U.S. and married Nancy, only to face immediate domestic issues. Reports indicate that shortly after their marriage, Ralph exhibited violent behavior, leading to multiple restraining orders. “James Petregallo James: 'He can't keep his sausage out of the crowd...'” highlighted the escalating abuse, with Ralph being arrested three times for battery charges between 1998 and 1999.

Introduction of Eleanor In 1999, Ralph began a new relationship with Eleanor Isaac, another woman he met online. Eleanor, born in 1958 and recently divorced, faced opposition from her family, who doubted Ralph's intentions, suspecting he sought a green card. Despite her family's concerns, Eleanor and Ralph married in March 2000. Their relationship quickly deteriorated amidst ongoing conflicts and restraining orders, leading to a convoluted living arrangement with Nancy.

Appearance on the Jerry Springer Show

The Ambush Setup On July 24, 2000, amidst numerous legal battles and a volatile household, Nancy decided to appear on the Jerry Springer Show. Unbeknownst to her, producers orchestrated an ambush by bringing Eleanor and Ralph to the show. Nancy believed the appearance was a step towards reconciliation, unaware that Ralph had already remarried Eleanor.

Show Dynamics and Betrayal During the episode titled "Secret Mistresses Confronted," Eleanor aggressively confronted Nancy, mocking her and revealing the truth about Ralph's marriage to Eleanor. Nancy was blindsided, maintaining her calm and refusing to engage in the typical Springer-style confrontation. “Jimmy Wissman Jimmy: 'She brought shaving cream to mash it in this woman's face,'” lamented James, highlighting Nancy’s unexpected passivity amidst chaos.

The Murder Event

Immediate Aftermath Following the show's taping, Ralph, in a state of rage fueled by alcohol, murdered Nancy Campbell. The crime scene was horrific, with Nancy found brutally beaten and unrecognizable. Police reports described it as the worst crime scene they had ever encountered. “James Petregallo James: 'Skechers and Chevy Chase... That's what was on her face,'” noted the connection between Ralph’s attire and the forensic evidence.

Manhunt and Trial Ralph and Eleanor fled Sarasota, attempting to reach Canada for protection. A nationwide manhunt ensued, with Ralph eventually surrendering and being charged with second-degree murder. The trial was marked by sensationalism, with prosecutors presenting a case built on circumstantial evidence and shoe print analysis. “James Petregallo James: 'DNA is just a fancy word for a guess,'” mocked the defense’s stance on evidence credibility.

Trial and Conviction

Prosecution's Case Prosecutor Charlie Roberts portrayed Ralph as a violent individual whose martial arts skills enabled him to brutally murder Nancy. Evidence included blood-stained Skechers shoes matching prints found at the crime scene and DNA under Nancy's fingernails consistent with Ralph's.

Defense's Argument Defense attorney Jeff Feger attempted to shift suspicion to Ralph’s nephew, Marcus Panitz, suggesting a setup orchestrated to implicate Ralph. He argued that the DNA evidence was inconclusive and that other suspects were overlooked.

Jury Verdict and Sentencing After a lengthy deliberation, Ralph Panitz was found guilty of second-degree murder. During sentencing, Judge Robert Bennett emphasized the brutality of the crime, stating, “Judge Bennett Judge: 'Ralph Panitz, this is how she died...'” and sentenced him to life without parole. The judge criticized the Jerry Springer Show for manipulating guests to incite public humiliation and violence.

Aftermath and Legal Actions

Reactions and Lawsuits Nancy’s children, Gary and Jeffrey, swiftly sought justice, advocating for a severe penalty for Ralph. Additionally, Eleanor remained steadfast in her belief of Ralph’s innocence, maintaining their relationship despite his incarceration. The Campbell family filed a lawsuit against the Jerry Springer Show for negligence, although it was ultimately settled without compensation.

Impact on Talk Shows This case ignited debates about the ethical responsibilities of reality and talk shows. Mental health professional Jimmie Wissman noted the tragic consequences of sensationalism, while prosecutors and defense attorneys discussed the potential influence of media-induced conflicts.

Conclusion and Insights

The Small Town Murder episode on the Jerry Springer Show Murder in Sarasota, Florida, serves as a grim reminder of the deadly potential of manipulated media confrontations. It underscores the importance of ethical standards in reality television and the profound impacts such shows can have on participants’ lives. As James Petregallo poignantly puts it, “[Sara...] It’s a wild, twisted story that highlights the darkest facets of human behavior and media influence.”

Notable Quotes

• “James Petregallo: 'He can't keep his sausage out of the crowd...'"
• “Judge Bennett: 'Ralph Panitz, this is how she died...'"
• “James Petregallo: 'DNA is just a fancy word for a guess.'"

Final Thoughts

This episode not only narrates a harrowing true crime story but also prompts listeners to reflect on the ethical boundaries of media productions and their real-world consequences. Through meticulous research and a mix of somber insight and comedic relief, Small Town Murder brings to light the intricate web of relationships and external influences that culminate in tragedy.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit from our friends at shutterfly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, shutterfly.com.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

It's fun to watch them actually thrive.

[James Petregallo]

I love it. And I'm telling you, we have hired people to do stuff. And I've complained about it on the show before, how expensive these people are. They turn you upside down and shake you, these tree people and landscapers. This is a great way to do it and save so much money. So much money. It is awesome.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

When Luigi Mangione was arrested for allegedly shooting the CEO of United Healthcare, he didn't just spark outrage, he ignited a cultural firestorm. Is the system working or is it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Time for a reckoning?

[James Petregallo]

I'm Jesse Weber. Listen to law and crime's Luigi exclusively on wonder. This week in Sarasota, Florida, a visit to the Jerry Springer show causes a love triangle to spin out of control, ending up in a brutal murder and fingers pointed in many directions. Welcome to small town murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small town Murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. We have a crazy episode for you. I don't even think I need to say that anymore. I'll just stop saying that. Tuning in, it's crazy. Trust us.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Otherwise, no, hang tight. You'll find out.

[James Petregallo]

You'll find out. It's wild stuff. We'll get to that though. Before we do, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows right now. You need to do that. If you're still, if you're listening to this early and you're still two weeks ahead of the April 19th virtual live show, you can still get that crazy virtual live show. By the way, Sasquatch is involved. You really want to check that out. But get your tickets for May 17th at the Riviera in Chicago. St. Louis is sold out the night before. So get in there, get those tickets. Also get tickets for the rest of the year too, because they're selling out fast. Even the shows in November and December are almost sold out. So get those tickets right now and come see us out there. That's shut up and give me murder.com also all the merch you could want on there. That said, also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports. We just finished up a 10 part Evel Knievel series that you should listen to. You don't have to like sports at all you just have to like stories about crazy people and also listen to your stupid opinions. Where we hear people's dumb opinions from all over the Internet when they're reviews of products and places and everything like that. Then get yourself patreon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You're gonna get immediately upon subscription, hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before to binge on. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murderer. And how much of that do they get, Jimmy? Every damn bit, every last second of it. That's right. This week, what we're gonna do for crime and sports, we are gonna talk about some college coach sex scandals. Because they are horny, those college coaches, man. I'll tell you what, they're super horny. And it doesn't matter if it's players or other people or faculty, they're into it. And then for small town murder, we are gonna delve into the last meals of some death row inmates. We did this before, years ago. We did some of the famous ones. We're gonna dive into some of the less famous ones this week. And I said delve. Dive and delve. I mixed them together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're delving and delving.

[James Petregallo]

We're diving and delving into that. So check that out. That's gonna be a lot of fun. That's always a great question. What would your last meal be? So we'll talk about that and more. Patreon.com grimeinsports that said, Disclaimer time. Yeah, this is a comedy show, everybody. We are comedians. We're gonna make jokes, but every second of the show, every detail is real, very meticulously researched. And yeah, we don't make anything up for comedic effect or anything like that. You might say, well, how did true crime and comedy mix easily? It's a stupid thing to say. You think you can get away with murder. It's a dumb idea. I think I can do. No, no, no. Everything's gonna be fine. I'll get the insurance and all that. That's a stupid idea. It's just stupid. And what do is we never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why, James? Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's real simple. It was a real easy way to do that. So if you think that you want to hear a crazy story, you're gonna hear one if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, ever go together, well, maybe we're not for you, but maybe we are. I think maybe you might not be giving it a chance. Either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time, everybody. Let's all sit back. Here we go. Let's clear the lungs, arms to the sky, and let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Hey, let's go on a trip, shall we? We are going down to Sarasota this week. Sarasota, Florida. That's right, it is. South of Tampa down there, Southwestern Florida. That's about an hour to Tampa, to be exact. About three and a half hours to Miami if you go the other way, which doesn't seem like it should take that long.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I always mess it up with Pensacola, which I've heard is nice.

[James Petregallo]

I doubt it, but. Yeah. And then the Panhandle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I'm gonna leave it north of Tampa. Yeah. Yeah. It's about 2 hours and 45 minutes to Fort Pierce, Florida, our last episode, which was Murky Murder Motives. That's the name of it. That was the attorney that was found in that shed, all burned with acid. And that was a crazy goddamn story. That was wild. This is in Sarasota county. Area code is 941. And they have several mottos and nicknames and things like that one is May Sarasota prosper. That's a motto. May it. I don't know. Make it happen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hope around here.

[James Petregallo]

Make it happen, man. The next is where urban amenities meet. Small town living. There you go. And then finally. Circus City.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Circus City.

[James Petregallo]

Circus City, that's right. And there's a reason for that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Circus.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Circus. Now, the origin of the name. A little bit of history here is disputed. Most of these old town names, unless they were named in the last hundred years, they're all disputed. So some claim that it's based on De Soto's daughter, Sarah, the conquistador De Soto, his daughter Sarah, claiming that. And others claim that it came from Sara Dakota, meaning an area of land easily observed in the language of the indigenous tribe that was there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's probably that.

[James Petregallo]

That seems. I don't even know. It seems like they probably would. Miss?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Miss? You know, what am I looking for here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Translate.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I guess that's the best way to put it. Yeah. Mistranslation was going to be. Yeah. So. I don't know. Who cares either way? So around 1883, the Florida Mortgage and Investment Company of Edinburgh, bought 60,000 acres for development in Sarasota. And Scottish people started coming because they were. It was up in Scotland. So they were selling these plots of land. Is it wet up here? You look, it's cloudy every day. Cold. Check out what we got. And they would sell these people. So it's weird, though, when you think of Sarasota or southern Florida, you think Scottish right away, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Indeed, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is funny because we know a guy with a Scottish accent that if you ask him where he's from, he goes, tampa. Like, okay, sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very funny.

[James Petregallo]

That's very funny. So now, from 1911 onward, a couple came here. Mabel and John Ringling. Name sound familiar? Circus City. Ringling. Ringling Brothers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, oh, okay. Ringling is the last name.

[James Petregallo]

Got it. They would spend their winters here and eventually purchased a large parcel of property for their permanent winter headquarters here. And they attracted several members of the Ringling family to Sarasota as a winter retreat. I assume brothers were involved in this, I imagine. And the Ringling brothers were very wealthy, but when they came to Sarasota, they hadn't started. They hadn't had circus wealth yet. Basically, the Ringling Brothers circuses were just like a bunch of. They did them once in a while here and there. They weren't consolidated under an entity of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It didn't necessarily have a schedule.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it wasn't Ringling Brothers, you know, circus or Barnum and Bailey or whatever the fuck it is now. So Charles Ringling, one of the brothers, and his wife Edith built a big bayfront winter retreat there and all that kind of thing. And then the guy died. Took years to build. And then he died right after it finished. Can you imagine that? Now I can finally enjoy it, and you drop fucking dead. That's what's going to happen with these shows. Yeah, I'm going to be done. Finally enjoy my fucking life, and then I'm going to drop goddamn dead as soon as I don't have to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I imagine everything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Soon as I don't have to stay up every day till 6am doing work, I'm going to have to. I'm going to drop right there. I know. Done done it. It's the George Costanza thing of, I knew God could never make me a success. He'd kill me first before he'd made me a success.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I had a friend that retired, James. And two weeks later, he was dead.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I mean. He has so many plans. So many plans. September 2022, Hurricane Ian made landfall here. And this people in Tampa because we were there right before that. And they were real cocky. 2002, 2022.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

People were real cocky about how hurricanes never hit this coast and eh, get the fuck out of here. I don't care what the weather's on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's never happened.

[James Petregallo]

They were, I mean, downright arrogant. And then it came right through. It was bad. Yeah. So this was a bad one too. It was winds exceeding 85 miles an hour within Sarasota County. The 200 mile an hour wind field, it was a lot. 10, 15.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They made landfall here in Fort Myers. Right.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know about Fort Myers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think it was the two of these places.

[James Petregallo]

I wasn't studying Fort Myers for this one, but that sounds. That sounds right. Though. The county suffered 10 fatalities due to the storm, making it the second highest county for casualties behind Lee county, which is just tons of trailers. So that would make a lot of sense. If you ever watch on patrol, Lee county is. That's when they asked a guy, where's your truck? And he pointed and went yonder. I swear to God he said that. Famous people in this town. There's a bunch. The Ringlings, obviously. And another circus act, Nick Wallenda of the. We heard about the him a lot in the Evel Knievel episode of the Wallenda Brothers, who did all the high wire shit there. We had him. Pee Wee Herman is from here. Paul Reubens, what. Grew up in Sarasota and it was where he was arrested for whacking off in a theater.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is the dumbest thing ever. Jerry Springer, he got arrested in Florida for that. Yeah, at his hometown. Jesus hometown. Jerry Springer had a big giant house here during the. His whole height of everything. And lived here for a long time. And finally, if you were a fan of wrestling at all, obviously Randy Macho Man Savage, who was actually from Illinois, I think. But you know, Sarasota, Florida was where they announced him from. So reviews of this town, because I've never been to Sarasota, it might be great. Let's find out. Five stars. Here we go. Sarasota has it all. Nice. Every store or restaurant you could imagine. Well, that's everything. Stores and restaurants. We have lots of fun things to do. Beautiful parks, amazing beaches and so many walking paths. The Legacy trail connects Sarasota all the way to Venice. That's a long way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Venice.

[James Petregallo]

It's got to be about 6,7000 miles, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Or 3,000. The other direction there's a Venice, Florida apparently too. And it's great for Biking. Other than that, the traffic. Because everyone loves Sarasota, I don't have many complaints for the area. I will say the public schools are awful, but that seems to be a theme in Florida.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it does.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they pride themselves on that. It's on the flag. Two stars here. This is an angry person, overpopulated by everyone moving here. And then in parentheses, mostly from the northeast. Okay, I bet your house is worth twice as much as it was before. You like that? Probably. Traffic crashes, non stop. Schools getting overcrowded, crime is growing crazily, homeless all over. Everywhere you look, a new unaffordable neighborhood or apartment building is being erected. But the infrastructure is not keeping up. As others have said, there's stuff to do and cool places to eat, but it's overwhelming to try to even go to them. Especially on the weekends. Forget about the beaches. Get there by eight or you're not getting a parking space in the actual beach parking lot. Gee, people would want to go to sand near an ocean. Weird. I can't imagine. I've lived here my whole life, many decades. And I take my beach vacations elsewhere. It's so stressful living here. It used to be nice, not now. My only hope is to sell my house to some fool from New York willing to pay too much and make me rich so I can live somewhere nice. All right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is the person that heard some media somewhere and just fucking bought every bit of it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, one star. If you're thinking about moving to Florida, don't. I'm from Boston and I've seen the strangest things on earth here. Rude people. Everyone has two jobs, crazy drivers, beyond expensive, poor pay, high rent, constant building of more chain restaurants. Weird people stay up north. This place is bizarre. Think Twilight Zone weird. So that nobody that he knows from Boston is going to buy that other person's house. I don't think people in this town. 53,786. So big. Yeah, a big town, but not a city. You know, not a giant city or anything like that. Small, small city is a lot more women than men here. Almost like 53 and a half percent women. I don't know how that happened, but that's a lot of way out of whack with the normals here. Median age here is 49, which is about 12 years older than the national average. And it's Florida. What do you want? A lot of old people come here. And this area, the Tampa area, also has a lot of retirement homes and retirement villages. My grandmother had a place down there that's where. So it makes sense to me. Family here, about 41% are married, which is below the national average. 21% have children but are single. And that's like double the national average. Race in this town, 64.8% white, 13.7% black, 1.4% Asian, 18.3% Hispanic. So it's almost like if you took the breakdowns nationally, that's exactly kind of within a couple percentage points what they are. That's interesting. Religion in this town, 44% religious. And it is going to be Catholics taking the, oh, people from the northeast and you know, people from whatever, you know, Hispanic people. Until you get that, you're gonna get a lot of Catholics here. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the bay. The Gulf coast region, I don't know. Very weird here. Sarasota has an unemployment rate a little bit below the national average. But the median household income is also below the national average, $62,615, which the national average is about $69,000. So there's that cost of living regular is 100. That's average across the country. Here it's 105. Doesn't seem that bad. The housing is actually the high thing. People used to move to Florida because it was cheap. That was the reason people moved there. Yeah, it's cheap and it's sunny. Great. I'm moving there. No more shoveling. But the median home cost here is $454,200.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Golly, that's not cheap at all.

[James Petregallo]

That's not cheap at all. So if you said, damn it, I don't care. I'm going to the crowded beach and the strip mall restaurant. I'm coming to Sarasota. We have for you the Sarasota Florida real estate report. Average two bedroom rental here goes for fifteen hundred and eighty dollars, which is God damn, couple hundred over the national average. That's high. Here's a two bedroom, two bath, 1480 square foot house. Not bad at all from the outside. Kind of looks like the golden girls house a little bit. Do you remember that from the opening credits? That's kind of what it looks like a little bit. Not bad. I mean, the furniture inside is a little bit weird. It's. You can tell that it's not. You can tell someone moved here from somewhere else. It looks like they took their Massachusetts furniture and put it in a house in Florida.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Running a beach community now.

[James Petregallo]

Not bad. 199,000 bucks for that though. Okay, not too bad. Almost 1500 square feet. Here's a three bedroom, two bath, 1802 square feet. It's a nice house. It's not a huge house, but it's a nice house. Looks very Florida. The Spanish tile roof inside, the like the big like, you know, 14 inch by 14 inch tiles. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. Very Florida looking. Altogether 625,000 bucks. And there's no land too. This isn't like, you know, two acres or anything like that. It is just expensive. Highway robbery. Wow. You want to talk about highway robbery? 6 bedroom, 9 bath. T Ball for all your B holes. Each and every B hole here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Even if you got two.

[James Petregallo]

Even if you got two B holes coming out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

8,929 square feet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's enormous.

[James Petregallo]

That is ridiculous. That's four houses. That's crazy. Four good sized houses. That is 1.82 acres. Right on the fucking beach. I mean. Yeah. Your yard, your yard. There's grass and then it runs into sand and then there's the fucking crashing waves. It's ridiculous. Very silly. It's. I mean, it's really nice. It could be like a hotel or something. It looks like when you see like pictures of the Diddy parties, this is where it was. That's the. This is one of like a house that. Like a Diddy party.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Glass panels on the patios that are upstairs.

[James Petregallo]

The floor slippery with lube everywhere afterwards. One of those type of things. $24,700,000. Okay. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who the fuck owns that?

[James Petregallo]

That is crazy. It's for sale now? I don't know. Apparently Pitbull is looking to make a change. I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Starting to get closer to Miami. I don't know what that is.

[James Petregallo]

Or further away, but maybe things to do here. Okay. We had some circus stuff first of all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The Circus Arts Conservatory.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

It's a circus college.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Does want to be a dipshit clown? You can do this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I wonder if this is the one that Stevo went to. Because he went to. He went to clown college in Florida.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. Well, that's probably where a lot of them are, I would think.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It says. Providing some of the most anticipated events in our area, the Circus Arts Conservatory leads the way in cultivating and enriching circus legacy. On enriching circus legacy, Florida's Gulf Coast. Enjoy everything from professional world class circus arts productions to Sailor Circus Academy productions of the greatest Little show on Earth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they have a circus arts class which are offered throughout the week for all experience levels. Our one Of a kind. Summer camps teach children circus arts disciplines and then showcase their new skills with a costume performance. Oh, look at that. Remember when costumed performance kids would like run away to join the circus? Who's encouraging their child to do circus arts? Like who's bringing your kid there? That's wild. Grow up. That's fucking weird. It's a non profit too. Educational performing arts organization. All right, how about the Circus Museum? Yeah, it says run away to the circus.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Don't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Immerse yourself in circus history. Be wowed by incredible human and animal feats. Study the amazing logistics of circus management. Or try your hand at walking the wire. Circus Museum's bed with no net. Vast and varied collections are on a view on view throughout two different buildings. Jesus Christ. They have two built. This is too much. Circuit man. Circus. I mean, Jesus Christ. Be sure to visit the newest exhibit. The Greatest show on Earth Gallery. Holy shit. Well, let's get away from that and go to something completely different. The Sarasota Reggae and Food Festival.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There we go.

[James Petregallo]

That sounds much better. There's going to be weed smoke in the air. This is much better for me. Rather than clowns and pictures of clowns. So if it says if relaxing, having fun, enjoying good food and listening to great live music over the weekend, sounds like your perfect plan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Maybe.

[James Petregallo]

Then join us at the Sarasota Reggae and Food Festival. They said the fun and relaxation begins every begins Friday evening from 4 to 10pm Sounds great. Free admission.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Outdoor event. Pet friendly. This is fantastic. You choose foods from a diverse menu of barbecue and meat dishes as well as all sorts of other shit. There's booze. It's great entertainment schedule. This is last year's because they don't have this year's yet. Johnny Long Long. I'm waiting for more. There. Nothing else. Doug Deming and the Jewel Tones.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nope.

[James Petregallo]

Sean Chambers?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Never.

[James Petregallo]

Gary Memphis Rub. Is that referring to barbecue or his cock? Which one? I gave it the old Memphis Rub Right in her face, you know what I mean? I got it in her eye though. It felt bad. Joey Gilmore, Memphis Lightning. Frank Bang. Put him together with Gary Memphis Rub and you got something. The old banging Rub. The Lee boys. They gotta have them. And then Lee Boys coming on in. Bridget Kelly band. JP Soares and the Red Hots. Which sounds like a S O A R S O A R S. All right. Yeah, put him with Gary Memphis Rub and Frank Bang. Where's Johnny Long dong? Where's he at? Oh, he's just Johnny Long now. He left the dong off Now, I'm sorry, I didn't know. Last time I performed with him, he was still dong. I don't know. And Mike Hund's All Stars. H U N D S Hund Mike Hunds All Stars. Okay, there we go. Crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here, property crime is almost twice the national average. It is a lot. It is high. That is not good, my friends. That's bad. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime also. This is slightly above average, but not out of control like the property crime numbers. That's still up there, though. So anyway, that said, let's talk about some murder. Let's do this here. Okay, let's head back. Let's set the scene here and head back to July 24, 2000. Yeah, 25 years. So trying to think Internet. Yes. Not high speed and not on your phone. You have a phone, but it's only for calling people. And you're wearing stupid clothes, Very stupid clothes. You're also. Phone is for calling people, not for texting. 2000 is like pre. Even cameras on your phone. This is just. It's a phone. You call people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And if there was. It was pixel.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. It was like people started getting them a lot. Like 2002ish, that kind of thing. That was like, really when they blew up. But I mean, I'm sure that one existed, but I mean, yeah, you couldn't see shit on it. Those old camera phones were terrible. The pictures are awful, awful, awful. So on this day, police are called. It's about 7:30pm and police are called to 2827 Grand Cayman street in Sarasota. And they are called by two different neighbors saying two different things, too. The main takeaway is, you guys need to get your asses over to this house. Why is disputed. But get over there. One neighbor reports hearing a man and a woman fighting and a woman yelling, don't do this. And all this sort of thing. And then another report from a neighborhood. They report to the police that two women are fighting and that there's some sort of domestic thing going on in this house and they need to get over there. So the police come in when they try to get in because they've heard there's violence inside. They can go in basically here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probable cause. Is that what that is?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that there's something bad happening in here. Plus, somebody said they looked in the window and saw blood and all this stuff. So they're going in the house now. They try to get in the door. It's barricaded. The door is barricaded, which is a bad sign right away from the inside. From the inside. Yeah. Well, barricading it from the outside would be much less.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're not letting anybody in.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you could just move this stuff and open the door from the outside. That'd be pretty worthless.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Best of luck, fuckers.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, take that in front of it outside. All right, well, you get the other end of this desk. I'll get it. Okay. Move that out of the way. Push this fridge. All right, then. Should we go in now? Okay, good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Will it help?

[James Petregallo]

So they bust in open. They bust in through the barricades. They have to really kick the. You know, push through it and everything. And they find the only person home is a woman. And she's definitely not in any state to complain or give a statement. She is on the floor in a pool of blood, absolutely dead and beaten so severely about the face that she's is like an unrecognizable person. Like, no one could look at her and go, oh, I know who that that is. It's impossible. She's been just absolutely mangled and mauled. And it's horrifying what's happened to this woman. I mean, several cops said it's the worst thing they've ever seen. Several of the responding cops said it's the worst crime scene I've ever been to. Most horrifying, gave me nightmares type of shit. Not good. Okay, now let's. So now we got that. Now that's going on. They're obviously trying to figure out how the hell that happened. Now let's set the table with some people here. Okay. Let's go back in time away from that. That's in 2000. January 24th. We'll go back in time and meet some people. Let's meet Nancy Campbell. Nancy Campbell is born in 1948. And you should see her pictures, too. Like some of her high school pictures. She's just that total mid-60s, swoopy thing at the bottom of her hair. You know what I mean? Yeah, that. Like, whatever the hell. Not a beehive, but that, like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, it's like. I don't know. It's fucking.

[James Petregallo]

It's Jackie O. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of bang walls and a little swoopy doop on the end there. So now she grows up, she gets married young.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And has two children, has two young boys. And, you know, this is a woman who got married in the mid-60s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just doing what you're supposed to do back then, you know, graduate school, get married, have kids, have a nice life and a family. And it's the sitcom, the 50s sitcom here. But the problem is when the children are very young, they had their kids pretty much right away. When the children are very young, Nancy's husband dies.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And he's young. They're both young. I mean, they're in their 20s when he dies. This is a horrible tragedy, obviously. So now Nancy is left with two sons and you know, obviously financially it's not great. If you're a single mom in the mid-60s, you're. Yeah. Your prospects aren't wonderful for, you know, high paying employment and that sort of thing. Now she has a son named Jeffrey and a son named Gary. Now this is in Michigan by the way. They're living. They're living in Michigan. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, Simplisafe. We love Simplisafe. Easy to say it. We love it. You make decisions all day long. That's all we do. But one of the easiest decisions we've ever had to make is to secure our homes and offices with Simplisafe. They're so good. When you arm that system, you know that your family's gonna be protected. I do. I know. I'm like, everything's protected. My pets are protected, my, my stuff is protected. It's fantastic. You could, whether you're stepping out for the day, whether you're going to go to sleep at night, that is going to give you peace of mind. Just knowing that you are going to be secure in there. You can focus on what matters. I rest easier. I can go about my day knowing that if anything happens at all, floods, fires, burglaries, whatever happens, Simplisafe has got my back. They have me covered and they give me confidence and I like it. Visit simplisafe.com smaller to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's s I m p l I safe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Back to the show. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And Jeffrey said, quote, that Nancy was just a really good mother, saying, my dad died when I was just a toddler, so she raised me and my brother by herself. She's a strong, independent, and just a great person. And that's kind of everybody's take on Nancy. She's a very nice lady. And when you look at her, she's like, just looks like a nice lady. She's like, kind of short and just looks like. Has a face that looks like, you know, she'd be like, she'd be friendly if you were. She was checking you out at the supermarket or something. Looks like a nice lady. So she's doesn't like attention at all. She's kind of quiet, keeps to herself, that sort of thing too. In fact, they said that she was a very reserved person. Didn't even like having her picture taken. Said she would, like, hide her face. She didn't want to have her picture taken. She's too shy, basically. Didn't really date at all while the kids were growing up either, really. Husband died and she just. That's it. I'm mom now and didn't really date at all. Until the kids are grown up and out of the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let them leave and then I'll worry about me.

[James Petregallo]

She has, like, no interest in men after that. So it's pretty interesting is that she seemed content to be alone and to raise her kids and just be fine. Now 1996 comes around. Let's fast forward to there. The kids are grown up now. She's just kind of a lonely lady sitting in her house, you know, she's what, in her 40s here she's 48 years old. She's lonely. I don't blame her. She doesn't want to if she's only 48, but she feels like she's living like she's 65 and she's just going to be lonely for the next. She could live 40 more years, for Christ's sake. She's going to sit. Just sit there and be lonely and miserable for 40 years.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she's probably going to be trimmed down tremendously by being miserable. But yeah, not great. Probably right around 30 years if you. If you're.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. If you're that depressed up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But if you. If you start dating and you're happy, maybe 50 years, who knows?

[James Petregallo]

Sometimes if you're miserable enough, you persist, though. That's the thing. The misery keeps you alive. Like I always had. My one grandmother just was kept alive by anger and, like piss and vinegar and anger. Whenever she would be mean and angry, I'd be like, she's fine. Okay, that's good. That was a good sign that, like, things are okay. Oh, good. She's making horrible racist comments. That means. That means that she's feeling okay. That's good. She's too nice. That means she's thinking about death and she's gonna. None of that shit. So 1996, Nancy's friends turn her on to AOL chat rooms.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

There we go. And this is a lonely lady sitting there, discovering a whole new world. And in the 90s, these chat rooms. I mean, now it's apps and shit like that. But these chat rooms in the 90s were. People met like crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's everything.

[James Petregallo]

They were everything. So she meets a specific man on the Internet. Yeah, so. And she's made a good life for herself and, you know, all that kind of thing. She was never interested in dating or remarrying before this, but now she's on the Internet, she's fucking around in AOL chat rooms.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she connects with a man. He is a German man. Oh, not just from Germany, living in Germany and border. Oh, he's in Germany and in Germany. Yeah, absolutely. German as shit for the Internet. Yeah. How else would you meet this guy? His name is Ralph Panitz. Ralph is R A, L, F. Right, The German. None of this ph shit here. Right. For the F. Ralph Pan. It's P A N I T Z. And he's about 12 years younger than her. But, man, do they get along. They're getting along. He is a German painting contractor, so that's what he does. A painter, house painter. He also found his way. Somebody turned him on to an AOL chat room. His screen name was Plainwell. P L A I N W E L L plainwell. I don't know if that's like a town over there. Whatever. Who knows? Look at me now, Nancy goes by Cupcakes 99.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Plural.

[James Petregallo]

Cupcakes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That she calls her boobs. I think my cupcakes right here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One of those cheeks.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Who knows? But Cupcakes. Now, Cupcakes 99 is her name. And somebody already had cupcakes. And she was like, cupcakes nine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somebody already had cupcakes. Cupcake. 99.

[James Petregallo]

Cupcake.

[Jimmy Wissman]

More than one.

[James Petregallo]

99. Hey. All right, I got it. So, yeah, they streak. They, you know, strike up a conversation. And they start then breaking out of the chat rooms to communicate solo, you know what I mean? They start speaking regularly for about the next year. This is her German Internet boyfriend. Now, imagine being her sons. We're like 30 at this point. You know, late 20s or whatever. They know about the Internet, I assume. Probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You gotta assume. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You come over to your mom's house and she's like, I met a German man on the Internet. You'd be like, I'm taking this computer out of your fucking house right now. You are not. No, no, it's back up until about nowadays, you ask people, how'd you meet? And they go online and you go, okay. You don't think twice. They might have said at work or here or there. It's the same thing. If you said even in the year 2000. Never mind. 97. If you said in the year 2000, oh, we met on the Internet, people would go, oh, my God. Really?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Right?

[James Petregallo]

I had friends of mine that were a couple, and this was like 2003. And they met on the Internet but didn't tell anybody. Like, he pulled me aside one day and was like, I gotta tell you something. And I was like, what? He goes, we. He said, yeah. He said, we didn't really meet at a bar. And I was like, all right. He goes, we met online. And I was like, okay. And he goes, I just don't want anybody to know. Cause people will make fun of me. He had a hard Boston accent. So he goes, I don't want anybody to know I was his friend. Yeah, he needed to tell somebody. And I was like, okay. Goes, ah. People are real weird about it. You know what I mean? I told. I told my brother. And he was like, nah, nah, you shouldn't do that. She's a nice girl, though. And blah, blah, blah. Anyway, they ended up absolutely, like, getting. Calling the cops on each other all the time. And of course they did they were a fucking mess, these two. But either way, back then, it was like they wouldn't even tell people they met on the Internet. They made up a backstory. So that's how the stigma of that was. And in 97, it was even more. It was like, anyone you meet on the Internet, the Internet will murder you immediately. You'll meet them, they'll stick a knife right in your forehead and walk away and spray paint AOL on your chest and then walk away. So they are dating, I guess you call it online dating for about a year. And this guy, Ralph Juergen, J U R G E N Ralph, Jurgen Panitz. He's 12 years younger than her, like we said. Now, he was married right up until the time that he and Nancy started talking. He just. He was married for 16 years, but just divorced right before this. So, like, he got a. I don't know if he got a divorce because he was meeting women on online chat rooms or if he was meeting women because he got divorced. I'm not sure which one it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But did AOL ruin this divorce or save his loneliness?

[James Petregallo]

It doesn't really matter at this point. So, anyway, after a year in 1997, he flies over to the US to be with Nancy and they get married. Oh, married. I mean. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So fast.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. A year of talking on the Internet, he's on a plane, he lands. They're pretty much married right away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Which is pretty fucking wild, honestly. Like, that's trusting on both of these people's parts. I mean, if you're him, you're going to a strange goddamn country. Strange country to be with a strange person. What if she doesn't, you know, something happens. Now you're in a strange country by yourself, and what do you do? And for her, she's importing a man. This is crazy. Back in the day. So right away, not a great marriage. Apparently there's a lot of fire between them, both romantically and, you know, argumentatively.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fire. Makes for great sex and arguments.

[James Petregallo]

That's the problem.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sometimes the argument leads to the sex. So sometimes it's just fucking amazing if you.

[James Petregallo]

Sometimes the arguments. Foreplay is. Yeah, like, that's a. Maybe that might pump some people up. But just for makeup sex right away, there's reports of domestic abuse. Right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, that's not good.

[James Petregallo]

Like, right away, one of the. Her sons said it wasn't long after their wedding that there was a domestic issue. Ralph had thrown her on the floor and she had hit her head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

After that she left and filed for divorce, which is, she's got her shit together, this lady, and she's been on her own for this long. She doesn't need to get knocked around now by some German asshole. So court records indicate that they, through this, even after they separated, they would go back and forth a lot, like we're talking restraining orders, and then have the restraining order lifted, and then another one three days later, and then have it lifted a week later. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a real lot. Nancy often expressed what they called devoted love for her husband and asked him to get back together with her. They would. He would act like an asshole, she would leave, then he would beg her back, and she would come back. And it was just back and forth with this relationship. Everybody knows people who've been in that relationship. I hope for your own good that it's not you. If you're listening, if you're in it, because this is a mess. So it's never going to get better. That's never going to be like, oh, we got that behind us.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thank God that's done.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, that's not going to happen. So they filed several requests for domestic violence injunctions against each other, which resulted in temporary orders that they didn't have any contact with each other, and then they would break their own orders. And of course, one of those. Ralph included in one of his petitions copies of email conversations in which Nancy asked him to return to her. One in one, he said. She said, you want me back? I want you. I will never stop loving you. I know you know this. And he wrote back, need to think about it. Which is pretty fucking short, I think.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Vague.

[James Petregallo]

It's a little terse, I think, for.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You know, poured my heart out to you. Let me sleep on it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, hold on. Let me kick that around for a couple. So she wrote back, we need counseling, though, but we can do it. But no other women from now on. Okay. Love you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I mean, she. She's saying we need counseling, which is the right move, but we can do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She did a lot of it.

[James Petregallo]

A lot. Yeah. And that's. That's his whole thing is he cannot keep his German dick in his pants.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He can't keep his sausage out of the crowd, and that's a problem. His brat needs to be in the crowd right now. So the email sometimes would be like angry emails back and forth, which she would accuse him of adultery and stealing from her money and shit like that, too. And then he would accuse her of stalking Him. Why are you stalking me? Basically like emailing him is stalking him to him, by the way. I don't know if it's a language barrier or he doesn't understand what stalking is. Yeah, but an email isn't really. An email from your wife isn't really stalking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

At that point to be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's seems over phone then motherfucker.

[James Petregallo]

Seems overly formal if anything. You know what I'm saying? An email from your wife. I rare several. Sarah rarely sends me an email about a household matter. It just doesn't really work like that. So court records indicate that he was arrested three times on battery charges over this time period. We'll talk about a couple of these here. July of 1998. He's really a summer batterer, as we'll find out. He's really. He's hot in the summer. He's the winter off. Maybe he's from Germany. He's not used to the heat down there. It's hot down there in the summer. I don't know what it is, but he.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Humidity will piss anybody off.

[James Petregallo]

It really fries his fucking German circuits, man. He can't take it. He loses his fucking mind. Because either that or he's just a complete asshole. One of the two, but which I think I'm. I'm opting for B. He was arrested on a domestic battery charge after Nancy threatened accused him of throwing her on the floor and threatening to kill her. You can't do that. Either of those things you can't do. The charges will later be dropped by prosecutors, and that is because Nancy doesn't want to cooperate. Very hard to get any kind of court case going if the victim won't cooperate. It's difficult. So there's a series of injunctions here that start in July of 1998. On July 25, Nancy files an injunction against Ralph to keep him away from her. So August of 1998, the next month, Ralph is with a different woman. Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, they're, they're. He. He gets around. He is, he is a. He is like. Like a. Like a German balloon in the wind, just floating.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Horrific accent is just bringing them all in.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's a bad one too. Like even nowadays, like, or even like 20 years later, he still like leaves out words and stuff. It's funny. So this is August 1998. He's with a different woman. And this is another girlfriend who accuses him of hitting her in the lip. Punched her in the mouth. She said, yeah, Jesus Christ. He was arrested on a domestic Battery charge, which prosecutors later did. What with Jimmy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What'd they do?

[James Petregallo]

They dropped it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of course they did.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is. This is a guy who just hits women, and then. No, there's no consequences for it whatsoever. It's wild. So February of 1999, Ralph and Nancy divorce.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Official divorce going on. Done for now. During that same month, Ralph meets a new woman online.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Got a new online girlfriend, a woman named Eleanor. And we'll talk about her in a little while. More on her coming up. Okay, so in the background of everything that's gonna happen now, he is. He has another relationship, like an online thing going on with Eleanor. So just in the background, picture the clicking of keyboard keys, like a dell computer from 1999, a Compaq Presario from 1999 with a Pentium 2 processor in it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's got a fucking tower.

[James Petregallo]

I worked in this shipping off or shipping place that had. It was like a big computer place, and it had, like, a shipping receiving department, and I worked in there, and I remember having to individually take out all these Pentium 2 processors out of these packages and, like, put them in other things. And I just remember going, wow, these are awesome. This is, like, some technology here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This shit is so impressive.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. Holy fuck. You couldn't run a fucking non smartphone with one of those things now. So February of 1999, that happens. So all in the background, that's going on July 4, 1999. Fourth of July, an American holiday. Ralph gets very American here by getting arrested again. That's pretty American, right, Ralph? Is that just a patriotic thing when you get arrested on the 4th of July? So he went to visit Nancy at her home in the 7700 block of 40th Court East. And her, apparently he was invited because they're going back and forth all the time. So apparently she invited him over. He didn't just kick in the door or anything like that. And she has a roommate named John Wilbur at the time, nothing romantic at all, Just someone to help share the bills.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Apparently, Ralph got in an argument with John Wilbur, a Florida man and a German guy. Arguing is right away hilarious to me. I'm sorry. That's just funny. That's just entertainment right there. And Ralph escalates this beef by smashing Wilbur in the head with a motorcycle helmet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's American.

[James Petregallo]

That's pretty fucking American.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To get together on the 4th of July, have some beers, and hit your estranged wife's male roommate in the head with a motorcycle helmet. Oh, say, can you see, that is the most American thing that's ever happened right there. So by the way, he hit him as Wilbur was on the phone with 911. So he went to call 911 to call. I'm calling the cops on you. And he said, no, you're not. Bashed. Smashed him in the head with a fucking motorcycle helmet. So he's an ambulance. Yeah. Now we both need something. So now. Now we're getting both ambulance and police are coming to the scene now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Send fire, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you know, just send everything you got. Who knows what could happen by the time you get here. You never know. So he's initially arrested on a charge of aggravated battery because he used a weapon. And he's always riding his motorcycle around, too. He's got a motorcycle he's riding around. It's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It looks like a Honda or something, though. It looks like a. It's nothing you would like or nothing like my dad or my brother would like. It's one of those.

[Jimmy Wissman]

James Dean.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, James. I am James Dean. I will crash one day, but for now, I will have all the pussy. I will get all the women. Charges, though, end up though. Charges, though. Charges, though, end up being downgraded to battery by the prosecutors. Not sure why he would later plead no contest to the charge and was sentenced to 60 days probation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

I've never heard of probation in that small of a serving, have you? 60 days. What is that? What is that, a hundred? I don't get even.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When you get a DUI, you get longer probation than that.

[James Petregallo]

60 days, that's. What is that? $156 in fines and 25 hours of community service. That's what he got for smashing a guy in the head with a motorcycle helmet to try to prevent him from calling 911, which seems like a much bigger crime than what he got convicted of. He's also ordered to take anger management classes and to pay restitution for Wilbur for any medical bills he might have incurred from this whole thing here. That next month, that's the Fourth of July. So that's a memorable holiday for Nance there. Jesus Christ. The next month In August, on August 14, he is again arrested for a domestic battery offense. Yeah, and I. That's not. From what I understand. I don't think that's involving Nancy. I think that's somebody else. So Ralph is a loose German cannon man. He is. Wow. He's a problem at this point. Yeah, he's not if you're his wife or his girlfriend or Anyone around these women for that matter. He's not very fun. He's a fucking mess. So enter Eleanor. Remember Eleanor, the woman he was talking online with since February? Well, Eleanor Isaac is her name and she is born in 1958 here. And yeah, she is also coming off a failed marriage, much like Ralph here. And her family does not like Ralph when they get together. I mean. No, they don't like him at all. They again think that his drinking is a problem. He loves to drink. Not just in a casual like, you know, European way either. Like he's a drunk. You know, like Europeans drink, but they're not drunks generally. Yeah, that's a different. They drink, but it's weird. They know how to do it because they've been doing it. They give kids booze there. So it's. Kids never binge drink. If you look at like England where the age is 18. Yeah, the kids do not binge drink. They just don't. Doesn't happen over there. They don't get deaths from alcohol poisoning and all that shit like we get in all these colleges.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're used to drink all the time.

[James Petregallo]

This is not a big deal. They've had a glass of wine with dinner. They're not overwhelmed. Same thing I saw a map the other day that had the alcohol related deaths in all of the European countries. Russia is like by far and ahead above everybody because it's miserable there and all you do is drink. But places that you would associate with heavy drinking. Germany, France, Italy. The lowest rates in the entire fucking European continent. Because they're just used to it. No, not Ireland. That's a different thing. Yeah, that's different up there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a religion.

[James Petregallo]

It's different up there. Yeah, that's to excess. But otherwise it's different. It's weird. So they know how to drink. Except for this guy doesn't hold his booze well. So despite her family's concerns, they also think that he might be using her for a green card, just be able to keep staying here. But she said, nope, not like that at all. She said we seem to have a lot in common. We liked the same authors and movies. We just watched Das Boot over and over. It's just Das Boot over and over again. So, you know, he doesn't like anything else. So. Yeah, I don't know if that's gonna. I mean, that's nice at first. You gotta have more than that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a first date. Then what?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's. That's right. Well, we'll have more on it too. It's so fucking funny because like Eleanor's mother said, he's too good looking. I don't like him. In other words, he's too handsome for you is what she's saying. This guy's obviously using you. You're hideous. Which is a tough thing to hear from your mother, but that's the type.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of worst thing to hear.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's tough, but that's also the type of shit. I don't know if her parents are foreign at all or anything, but that sounds like something my Italian grandma would say. Like, what do you think that person wants with you? That's what they say. She's mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm sure it's fun, but don't count on that lasting.

[James Petregallo]

She's gonna leave. She'd go, are you fat? Why would he want you? That's what she'd say. I've heard her say that to my relatives before. It's like, wow, you are brutal. So February of 2000, Nancy asks the court that her injunction against Ralph be dissolved.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So now she wants to be able to go near him again. She's wrote in her filing, I have no reason to fear Ralph Panitz. So, okay, everything's great. So things seem Wonderful. February of 2000. Christ, he might be getting back together with Nancy here soon. Yeah, yeah. Then the next month, March 17, 2000, Ralph marries Eleanor. Okay, this is. Wow. Has everybody been keeping their scorecards so far? Yeah, I mean, honestly, dude, you could make a huge chart with this shit and it would. This is a lot, dude. So March 17, 2000, that is. He claimed, by the way, that in one of the court things with his ex wife, with Nancy, that Nancy was a Jekyll and Hyde who stalked him and his new wife. So he claims that they got married and then all of a sudden Nancy begins stalking them. That's what he said. Now, Eleanor thought that Anansi was just Ralph's ex wife, didn't really realize the extent of what's been going on and that they've been going, getting back together and on and off. Ralph basically tells Eleanor that Nancy is a, you know, is constant. She's always here. She's stalking me relentlessly. She's a never ending presence in my life and she won't go away and all this type of shit. So according to Ralph, she just wouldn't leave them alone and she would follow the couple everywhere, interfering with their new life. In fact, he told Eleanor that we need to confront her. We can't just run away from this lady and have her stalking us is what he was saying. So that's one thing. By the way, I have to give you comments that Eleanor made about her marriage to Ralph. She said, this is the ceremony. It was the. It was absolutely beautiful. It was the only wedding I've had that I cried at.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The only one.

[James Petregallo]

The only wedding I've had that I cried at. Which sounds like she's at least four, right? There has to be. Yeah. Yeah. If you were married.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Surprised that there's a cry. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Well, if you were married once before, you'd say, I didn't. The other time I got married, I didn't cry. She said that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Big of a deal.

[James Petregallo]

The only wedding I've had that I cried at. Which sounds like a cop saying, this is the worst crime scene I've ever been to. You know, he's been to a few. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the worst accident I've ever seen.

[James Petregallo]

A guy, first day on the job, wouldn't say that at all. So, Ellie, Eleanor's sister, said, when I first met Ralph, I really wasn't impressed. He's a drinker. And her mother told the sister that she was concerned that Ralph was violent and an alcoholic and said, quote, he's gonna kill her one day. Oh, that's what Eleanor's mom said. And he's too handsome. Listen, you ugly bitch. No. When a guy is using. Using you for murder, know it. Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So her mother said, quote, I don't trust him. He's too good looking. He just wants you for the green card. That was her quote. Now, Ralph said, telling. And Eleanor sitting here. What do we do? We have to confront her. We have to get this Nancy to stop stalking us. How can we do that? There's only one way to do it. There's only one way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cops.

[James Petregallo]

Cops. That's one way. A friend and find a mediator. A mediator. Somebody like that. Move not confront her. Maybe call her up, say, hey, let's meet at, you know, let's meet me at Chili's, and we'll all sit in the booth and have some fucking. Some queso dip and talk about this and clear the air.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bottomless nachos.

[James Petregallo]

That's all you know, it's whatever. Those little egg rolls. We'll get it all, man. We'll go all out on apps. It's a special occasion.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Saucy Nugs. Let's go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do it. Saucy Nuggs. But instead, they decide the best venue for this talk would be the Jerry Springer Show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Heard Tell he has a nice house down here.

[James Petregallo]

Holy balls. Yeah, let's go on the Jerry now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

There's serious life choice, serious shit going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. We'll have Jerry Springer mediate this.

[James Petregallo]

We'll have Jerry handle it. And these people are not your typical kind of Springer trash as the thing too, because she's a nice lady. And they're just not the typical here. They're older too, is the other thing. It's a lot of younger people. Not usually. Nancy's like 48 years old at this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Point, and there's not really a scandal here except for an extra person involved.

[James Petregallo]

But it's like confront her on Springer. Yeah. And if you don't know, by the way, just to go because, I mean, we just assume everybody knows Jerry Springer. There's kids who are 22, 23 years old to listen to the show, have no fucking idea what that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he's dead. So it's not happening again.

[James Petregallo]

No. I couldn't believe it went on to like 2000, 2010 or some shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crazy how long it went.

[James Petregallo]

Nobody watched that after like 2001. 2002. But like, Jerry Springer, when it first started, was a real mild show. Jerry was like, Mr. Like Cardigan Guy. And he was like, well, let's. Let's hear more about that. Like, Mr. Sensitive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was a government person.

[James Petregallo]

Before that, he was the mayor of Cincinnati and all that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But he. Then they ended up going more sensational because other shows are getting successful with more sensational content and they had to compete. James, basically, you're not. Yeah. You're not going to be Oprah and beat Oprah. You know what I'm saying? If you're Jerry Springer. So they decided to go this raunchy route where it's people on stage and they have problems and they fight. And this was basically, someone would come out and go, I heard you fucking, my man. And some like, hillbilly would come out. I love when the women would come out and immediately kick both their shoes off because they know they're going to be fighting. So now you have.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Just barefoot hillbillies fighting each other up there. That's all it was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Steve was amazing until he talked. Once he started to show what his personality was, it was fucking boring. I want to watch him punch out a tiny, tiny little spinning out skinny meth head.

[James Petregallo]

Just. Just stand there and look like Jack Cal Ripken and shut the fuck up, you know what I mean? Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about Goldbelly. That's right. It's incredible. It's an unforgettable gift you can get. Hey, how about mom on Mother's Day? That's coming up. It's Gold Belly, everybody. This amazing site that we order from all the time and where you can get the most iconic famous foods from restaurants all across the U.S. this is great. We all move around the country and then we want the things we want from back home and it's not there or even from somewhere else that you just want to go to. And they'll ship it anywhere across the country for free in time for Mother's Day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Unbelievable. And there's so much good stuff on there too. There's so much good stuff. I mean, everything from the New York bagels. That's what we got. Which is excellent. Gold Belly will ship gift worthy cakes from Ina Garten and Martha Stewart Magnolia bakeries, famous banana pudding, New York bagel brunch directly from the city or even authentic deep dish Chicago pizza. If you're looking to make your mother's day perfect or you want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal, next time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Smalltown Murder. That's goldbelly.com code Small Town Murder for free shipping and 20% off your 1st order.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about Thrive Market. Jimmy, myself, we both want to be healthy and know how to eat healthy. But the thing is, where do you start with that? If you don't know what you're doing, it's very difficult. And that's why we love Thrive market. It's our go to online grocery store for getting all of the healthy essentials delivered. And we don't even have to leave the house. It's the no junk online grocery store that bans over 1,000 harmful ingredients from anything they have there. I know you have one thing here, particularly pasta sauce.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Drives me bananas and rouse is there and it tells me what's good and what's not.

[James Petregallo]

And not full of sodium because that's the problem. Some of those pasta sauces loaded with sodium so you can find better options easy with Thrive market's healthy swap scanner scan, a product that'll instantly recommend a cleaner alternative. It's amazing. Yeah. You swap out things you get like simple mills crackers and lesser evil popcorn. Are you ready to make the switch? Well, I'm ready. Go to thrivemarket.com smalltownmurder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V E market.com smalltownmurder thrivemarket.com smalltownmurDer now back to the show. Audible ignites your next action packed adventure with thrills of every kind. On your command, dive into the Silent Patient by Alex Michalitis. A psychological thriller that will keep you guessing until the very end. Masterfully narrated by Jack Hawkins and Louise Freely. From electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance. And far off realms unleash your adventurous side with gripping titles. Discover exclusive Audible originals, hotly anticipated new releases and must listen bestsellers that hook you from the first minute. Because Audible knows there's no greater thrill than the one that speaks to you. Discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat. Start your free 30 day trial at audible.com wonderypod that's audible.com wonderypod grab a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Couple of crackheads under each arm, throw them off the set. That's fine. Soon as you talk, I'm so fucking bored.

[James Petregallo]

So done. So by this point, this was when 2000 was, when it was. I mean, it wasn't even the beginning of it. It had been for five years. All it was was people fighting. Yeah, you go on, you yell at someone, they yell at you, you get up and then there's a big fight. And everybody cheers. And Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. And then Jerry, you cut to Jerry and he's like just sitting on the stairs, running his hand, head through his hands through his hair. And then he makes some like quip and then everybody laughs and then everybody sits back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jerry going, I can't believe I had a man come on my show that told us that he was marrying his goat. And then there was a fight. This is unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

This is unbelievable. He can't believe it. Think a man just marry a quarter horse and we could have a nice ceremony. But no, can't have anything nice. No nice things, huh?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I had no idea that I'd bring a little person on this show and somebody would try to throw him.

[James Petregallo]

Try to throw him after trying to fuck his head after the little man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just told me that he fucks my wife.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. And that's what it would be. It would be crazy shit like that. It would be two sisters who were both fucking the same guy and they'd yell at each other, well, I fucked him last night. Well, I fucked him last Night, too. Like, in their life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then he'd come out and then the twist would be, and we don't even want you. We're just gonna fuck each other. What?

[James Petregallo]

Either that or he'd be. He'd come out, they'd be fighting, and he'd be like, listen, I'm only here to tell you I don't want either of you. And then here's Mandy. And then another chick would come out, and then both the sisters would beat the shit out of her while he tried to, like, pull them off of each other. And they're holding each other's hair and crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And Mandy's trans. And it's crazy because Mandy's beating the shit out of these women on tv.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, this. This is. It's just a fucking mess. It's just an absolute trailer park throwdown chaos. That's all it is. And they talk about on the. There's a documentary on. Was it Netflix, about this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And this case involved in it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's from the employee's point of view where they're telling you, like, what happened behind the scenes and why this show ended up going away.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And they're. They. They were just encouraging this. They needed this. Basically, this. No. No regrets. So this is where you end up taking this beef that they've had, which, if you look at them on paper, this looks like the perfect Jerry Springer Trio. You know what I mean? All sorts of court stuff. And I divorced her and I married her, but then I'm back with her. The way they met. He's from Germany. It's all a crazy story, but Nancy doesn't fit into this because Nancy is just a kind of a shy lady.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she, like, you look at her, she just looks like a mom. She just looks like some.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Meek and mild.

[James Petregallo]

Nice. Yeah. She looks like. Like there's nothing about her that's like, oh, she's going to go on Jerry Springer and start beating people up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So it's odd now she ends up going on the show because she basically. She thinks it is to confront this other woman. By the way, she has no idea that Ralph and Eleanor are married. None.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She doesn't know that they're married.

[James Petregallo]

No clue. And this is May 7, 2000. Is the Jerry Springer show taping? So they've been married a couple months. She has no fucking idea about it. She thinks that she has been brought here so Ralph can reconcile with her and they can tell this Eleanor to stay out of their fucking lives.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Leave us alone.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That is What? That is what it is. So. By the way, the day of the episode filming is Nancy's birthday as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

This is all on this woman's, like, 48th birthday. This happens. Okay, now a little bit of thing. This is some background I'll give you, from Nancy's son about the relationship. He said that, you know, after the domestic violence in the beginning where he thrown her down and she hit her head. He says after that she left and filed for divorce. All of a sudden she was in a big house alone. And I think she just got lonely. That's why she went on the show, to get him back. Yeah, this is just sitting there by herself. Which was the whole point of going on AOL to begin with, was to not be by yourself. So he said, this is the son, Jeffrey. My mother believed that Ralph had been deported to Germany.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, she thought he was gone.

[James Petregallo]

So that's how little she was stalking him. She thought he was on another continent.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I have to email him because he doesn't have an American phone anymore.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. He is somewhere. He is in glutton stogging or some shit. I don't even know. That's not a real place, but sounds like a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably does feel like stalking when she's emailing you at fucking 4am because she thinks it's 2pm there.

[James Petregallo]

She's just at work in her normal schedule. He's like, what's happening now? So she. Jeffrey said that then he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother, but she was basically lied to because that never happened. I don't think my mother had any idea what she was walking into. And that's another thing too. The Springer show likes to ambush guests with things that they don't know are gonna happen to get the reactions. They want reactions. And when they showed in the documentary, too, like, they're like, well, when they're, like, coaching them backstage, the producers are like, all right, what if she comes out and she says, I don't care. I'm fucking your boyfriend. I'm doing. In your own bed. What are you gonna say? And the lady was, you know, the other person was like, I tell her, like, you know, you're a bitch. And she's like, no, that's not enough. Like, that's. We really gotta, you know, do something. And so, you know, get this energy up. And they'd be like, you're not fucking Batman anymore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My fucking bed.

[James Petregallo]

I'll take you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that, that. And they'd encourage Him. That's more of that. More of that. More of that. Yeah. And, you know, maybe she. If she's not gonna listen to you, you might have to go over and grab her by the hair and tell her about it and shit like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now you're getting the gist of the show.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Wow. So Jeffrey said my mother believed that Ralph had been deported to Germany and that the show was gonna pay for his travel back to America. Then they could reconcile and he could stay. So this was just basically a way to get him over here for free. Then he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother. That was the plan. So that was it. So anyway, he said it was shocking, to say the least, that she agreed to do it. It was so out of character for her. He said, growing up, I don't even remember my mother dating ever. Maybe once or twice, but nothing like a serious relationship because she was a widow. He said to see her up there on the show just looking like a deer caught in the headlights, like, what's going on here? I just wish I could go back and say to her, don't do this. Okay, now it is Eleanor, Ralph, and Nancy, and they are going to appear in a segment titled Secret Mistresses Confronted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which again, sounds.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds. Everything sounds on the up and up here. She didn't realize that she is the sheriff's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's the mistress.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, that's what she didn't realize. So the show starts out with Eleanor up there, and then Nancy comes out. They're sitting on kind of the opposite sides of the stage in chairs. And then there's a chair placed in the middle of them with everything. Everybody's spaced apart. Like, the chair in the middle is 5ft from each chair. If we can give you the layout there. Okay. So Eleanor gets on the stage and. Or, I'm sorry, Nancy's there. And Eleanor is mocking her immediately, calling her old and fat and all this type of shit and everything, because she's. Eleanor is, like, two years younger than Ralph, and Nancy's 12 years older. So she's like 14 years younger than Nancy, and she's calling her old. She's calling her fat. She's calling her all this bullshit. Right. So it's very cruel. And you could see that Nancy, you could. You know, when you see a person's face, go back to the sixth grade.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Where they're like, just let this go by. It's very. Yeah, it's. It's very disconcerting to see an adult do that. Have to do that. Like, like go through that. Weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's, she's realizing she, it's, it's the face of regret for this decision. But like, but she also doesn't feel like there's any solution of getting out of this decision until I just let it get out. Be done with the time.

[James Petregallo]

Don't argue back. Just sit there kind of quiet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How long this takes.

[James Petregallo]

Get it over with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll get out of here.

[James Petregallo]

And. And there's a crowd, you know, heckling and jeering along. It's like gym class. Basically it's gym class and someone is ridiculing you in front of the whole class. And they're laughing like it's horrifying. Horrifying. Not, not comfortable to watch. So it's not the usual. Usually it's like, well, you need to get away, you're old and fat. And then she'd go, you fucking bitch, you got syphilis. I heard, fuck you, you fucking twat. And that's the normal thing. But Nancy's going, she's not giving them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The Jerry Springer episode. She's just sitting there being a normal person who's been blindsided and ambushed. And she is not okay with this. But she's not comfortable with it and not, not able to. And she clearly avoids confrontation.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, exactly. She's not big on confrontation. I don't think she's a yeller in a. I don't think she's a fighter. I think she's kind of a mild mannered person for Michigan. I think she's real chill. So what she says is that she explains that she and Ralph are trying to restore their marriage, but Eleanor won't leave them alone. That's what Nancy says. And Eleanor said, I want you to leave us alone. I want a normal life. And then Nancy said, no you don't. Neither does Ralph. He loves the excitement.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There you go.

[James Petregallo]

Which is kind of the truth here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. But none of this is Jerry Springer exciting.

[James Petregallo]

No. So then they bring out Ralph. Let's bring out Ralph. And he steps out with this big like, hahaha, I'm a stud. Like he just, he had a little stupid German ponytail. He was dressed like an idiot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look at all this American pussy I'm stealing from.

[James Petregallo]

Look at this. Isn't this amazing? They're fighting over me. Oh my goodness, look at me. Like this look on his face was just so cocky. And he goes over and he kisses Eleanor and then walks over and kisses Nancy too, kisses her on the cheek, then sits down in his chair okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now, in between them.

[James Petregallo]

In between them, which is what they want, because they either want betwixt the gals. Yeah. So he. This is when she learns that they're married.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she is, like. You could see that, like, is a physical blow to her. You can see, like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

At that point, she's really going, oh, what am I doing here? What's going on?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Why am I. I thought we were talking about mistresses.

[James Petregallo]

You could see the wheels turn and where she's like, wait a second. They're mad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God. I'm the mistress.

[James Petregallo]

I'm the mistress. What the fuck? You could totally, totally see it. So they start accusing her of stalking them, Eleanor and Ralph for accusing Nancy of that. And then out of nowhere, when they're like, yeah, he wants me, and they're going back and forth, she then says, well, I don't know why was he sleeping with me the last couple nights? Then Nancy says that now Eleanor tries to act like that's nothing to her. Doesn't bother. That's fine. That's fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whatever.

[James Petregallo]

Neil or Neil Ralph. Neil. I don't know where that came from. Not even close. You keep all these fucking people straight.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I have them written in front of me and I can't even keep them.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean, who the hell knows? It's hard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No more sympathetic. I couldn't be.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know where the fuck. What am I talking? I'm a should be. You have a lot of sympathy for me because I have brain damage, apparently. Calling people by the wrong names. I need sympathy. So Ralph tells Nancy that I don't wish you any harm or anything like that. Just leave me alone. He sent me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That could have been a text message, you dick.

[James Petregallo]

Why are we on Jerry fucking. Well, it's 2000. So it couldn't have been a text message, but an email.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You could have sent an email?

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Clicked reply and said, I'm married. And she wouldn't have written back.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You know that AOL thing you do all the time? Get on there. You've got mail, motherfucker. And it's not Jerry Springer. So Ralph then says that I was only. The only reason that I had sex with her the last couple days is because I wanted to be nice to her, to get her to come on the show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So it was a bait dick.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I was fishing with my worm.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said he wanted to keep her, quote, illusioned and to ensure that she would, you know, be on the show, which is just gross. And The. And the current wife has no problem with this. He's like. She goes, yeah, see, he doesn't want to be with you. It's like, have you. What? He just said he fucked her last night, and you're fine with this? Okay. So then Nancy said, and this is Ralph. He plays the games with all his women. He takes all the money he can get. And he said. Nancy said that after he said he had sex with her yesterday. But he said, but the matter of the fact is that I married Ellie and I do love Eleanor. Then Eleanor said, ralph loves me and wants to be with me, and you redheaded bitch from hell, you need to leave us alone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petregallo]

That's a producer thing. They want you to have that kind of thing. Have a catchphrase.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do some name calling.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, do some. But make it creative, you know? Do that, you redheaded bitch from hell. So Eleanor, as she said, you need to get a life. I hope you enjoyed yourself immensely the last two nights, because it's the last time you're ever going to see him. He wants to be with me. Wow. And that is crazy. So Jerry said that, quote, you know, he came in there and asked, why. Why'd you do this? And that's when he made the illusioned comment. Then Ralph said, quote, I thought she might be humiliated enough to realize it was over. Oh, I figured I'd bring her on national syndicated television to humiliate her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Figured this part where she cries publicly.

[James Petregallo]

You know, that sort of means that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Millions of people watching, that ought to make it stop.

[James Petregallo]

So then Eleanor said, you can't humiliate this woman. Like, she's beyond. You know, has no shame, basically. So Jerry turns to Nancy and said, he's telling you he doesn't want to be with you and Nancy. Now, this is the point where Nancy's supposed to go, but he's my man, and fuck that. And she's supposed to go over and, like, mush Eleanor's face, and then Ralph's gonna come up and grab her from behind, and then both the women are gonna fight. They're gonna have each other's hair, and. And Steve is going to be throwing Ralph off and trying to. That's the point of what's supposed to happen here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She brought shaving cream to mash it in this woman's face.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Someone's going to take their shoe off and hit somebody else with it. Instead. Nancy says, quote, that's fine. Bye, and walks off the stage.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She is way too classy to be on the show. That's what that says to me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's the answer that you're supposed to have as a rational human being.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what an adult would say. You know what? That's fine. I don't want to be anywhere near you, then. Bye and leave.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or this dumb show. Why am I here?

[James Petregallo]

Why am I here? And the audience, like, cheered and shit, because they were like, yeah, get out of here, bitch. Like, because the audience was on. There's Ralph and Eleanor side, stupid, which you're on Ralph's side. He just said, I fucking pork this lady to get her here. This is crazy. So at that point now Eleanor is up out of her seat and, you know, talking shit as she's walking off the stage and all that shit. And wow, Eleanor forgives Ralph. It's okay that you did that the day before and all this type of shit. Didn't really care. Nancy's son said it's pretty obvious that they were there to ambush her, which I don't think you can argue with that. No, the interesting thing is the title of the show. If she had known what the title was, she probably would have thought twice about appearing. But she didn't know that the producers wanted to get the. Wanted them to get physical and make threats, and she wasn't about to do that. She looks like a nice lady who works in, like, the office at a high school or something. Like, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's so timid.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she's like Ferris Bueller's principal secretary. Like, that's what she reminds me of as far as personality. She's just kind of a mild mannered, meek lady.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the principal secretary was much louder.

[James Petregallo]

Than she was louder. But I mean, like, what she looks like, though? Like that, Like. Like somebody's whatever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, she also looks like she has a lot of stress going on in her life. She has a lot of things that she's trying to balance. And this was, she thought something that was gonna get her back together with the person that she cares about, and instead she's been ambushed and wasted her fucking time. Wasted her time when she's got bills to pay. Leave me the fuck alone.

[James Petregallo]

Like I said, if this was a different talk show, one that wasn't predicated on hillbillies fighting each other publicly, then it might have been different, you know what I mean? If she was going on one of those other ones. But Jerry Springer has one fucking goal and one goal only, and that is to get white trash to beat the shit out of each other on television. That's it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We need white trash blood and somebody to have a crazy sexual proclivity. That's what we need.

[James Petregallo]

And then you got something here. So Eleanor later about this whole thing says, actually, we didn't even do a good job, meaning on the show, they wanted yelling. They wanted yelling and screaming and to lunge at each other. And we didn't do that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, because she was gone. You couldn't.

[James Petregallo]

She didn't participate in that. If you wanted a show, you could have turned to. Could have turned to Ralph and took a swing at him for fucking banging her the night before. That would have been some. Something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There you go. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now backstage, the producers don't just go, you tell him, Nancy, great job. That's right. You shouldn't have taken that stuff. They go, what are you doing? Get back out there. And she said, no. Yeah, we're fucking getting back out there. And they said, yeah, you are. You got to get back out there. Go get in her face. Go tell them what the fuck you think of their bullshit. And you go in and she said, no, I don't want to. They made it clear. And I'm not going to go out there and embarrass myself. Then they pull the talk show card here, which is whole card. Yes. This is crazy. This is like holding someone's passport in a foreign country or something. It's not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's exactly what it is.

[James Petregallo]

They tell her, well, if you want to get your flight home, you'll go back out there. Otherwise, we're not giving you your ticket home.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

You're stuck here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's kidnapping.

[James Petregallo]

That's insane. Like blackmail or not extortion. I don't know what the fuck it is, but it's not good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

So that's. And it's fucked up. They're, like, allowed to do that. I can't believe they're allowed to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't believe that you can just withhold somebody's return ticket until they come to whatever it is that you want. Meanwhile, she. She. Does she have a time limit that she has to be. Because she went on the fucking show.

[James Petregallo]

Went on the show. She's just not. And they do. They threaten her. And apparently they do this with everybody. They threaten them with, you're not getting your ticket home. Like, you want to go home, Then you're fucked. How are you gonna be here? And a lot of these contestants, you can tell contestants, it's not a contest, but, no, not a game show. But a lot of the people that are on this show participants is the word I'm looking for. A lot of the participants, when you watch it, they don't have any money.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

They're very, very poor people. A lot of these people. And they don't literally don't have the money to get a bus ticket to Arkansas from where the fuck they are. From Chicago, which is, you know, you hold a lot of control over someone when they can't even buy their own bus ticket.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And you brought this woman from Sarasota, Florida to fucking Chicago.

[James Petregallo]

So they keep telling her that, and she says, I don't give a shit what you do. I'm not fucking going back out there. So they go, okay, you don't get a return ticket home.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And she leaves.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now included in this is not only return tickets and all this shit is also you're supposed to get. They get limo rides to their hotels, to the airport, to the, you know, they get on their flights and do all that kind of shit. They just kick her out in the street. Oh, Nancy ends up wandering the streets of Chicago with her fucking Rollie suitcase.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She has place to be wandering around with a suitcase.

[James Petregallo]

No hotel, no. No ride and no flight home. She's just stuck in Chicago and she has no money either.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

She does not have enough money to get home or to get a hotel room or do anything. So she basically wanders around the city rolling her fucking suitcase, crying about what just happened until some actual one decent human being on the face of the earth said, oh my God, what's wrong? And she said, I went on the Jerry Springer show and this guy understood her plight and bought her a bus ticket to Sarasota.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So this is literally a good Samaritan, just some nice person in the street bought her a Greyhound ticket to Sarasota. Rushing, nice, still fucking be there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Recognize this person is not just. She's just down on her luck and needs help.

[James Petregallo]

She's not a crackhead. She's a nice middle aged lady with her rolly bag going, they won't let me back on. And they've seen Springer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The mayor of Cincinnati just ruined her day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. So the Ralph and Eleanor, though, get the limo to the airport from the show and in the limo with other guests from the show because they basically just shipped the whole cabal off to the airport. Right after the show. Eleanor wished aloud in front of everybody that Nancy was dead. I wish she'd die. Okay. And they were all like, oh, shit. And then later on, a waitress at a pizza place in Sarasota Said that she heard Ralph talk about the show and say of his ex wife, quote, I'll choke the life out of her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

So that's not good. Those are bad statements. Now, this is from the son, Jeffrey, saying backstage, my mom was informed that if she didn't return at the end of the show, they would not provide her return ticket to Florida. And she wasn't having that. He said somehow she found her way to the bus station after walking the streets alone by herself. She didn't have any money and anywhere to go. It was just her crying. And a good Samaritan saw her visibly upset and bought her a bus ticket, like we said. Now, multiple producers confirm that's what the show does. This is not a rumor or anything else. They'll tell you straight up. We tell them, if you don't get out there and perform, we're not sending you home. I didn't think they'd actually do it. I always thought that was just a threat to get people to do it. But at the end of the day, they go, fine, here's your fucking ticket. Get out of here. But they don't give you your ticket. So this is Toby Yoshimura. That's the guy from the documentary, the producer there, one of the guys, he said, you as a producer had one more opportunity to keep them. They should feel beholden to you, that they are letting you down and that you've done all this for them. And like, yeah, you should be like. They should be like, they owe you something. So they got to go out there and perform. Yeah, it like. One of them talked about how one guy told him, gee, buddy, you bought me the best rack of ribs I've ever had in my life last night. So I'm going to go out there and put on quite a show for you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm gonna really kick some ass today.

[James Petregallo]

I got a belly full of pork right now. I'm feeling good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm a burp honey barbecue all over that.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man, it's smoky. My burps is smoky right now. So. They also noted that no one from the show tried to contact Nancy afterwards to check in on her or see where she went or see if she's alive or got home or anything like that. And yeah, one other former producer, Richard Dominic, said we weren't problem solvers. We weren't going to give you the chance to tell your story and get it all out. But we are also. But we all. We are not going to help you, or we will give you the chance to tell your story and get it all out. But we're not going to help you. That's what they say. Why is it a policy to just treat people like shit, though? You don't have to treat people like shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you do. If you.

[James Petregallo]

You can work with them probably too, and they'll.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Otherwise you get taken advantage of. James, if you show remorse and sadness.

[James Petregallo]

And softness, they're going to be coming in from everywhere. I don't. Yeah, I don't understand it. I mean, I don't know. We're not going to help you. Fuck off. Yeah. So the show description here, like if you looked at the website or a TV guide or something back then, said Eleanor says her ex wife's husband, Nan won't take no for an answer. Nan has stalked them so severely that they had to go into hiding. Today, Nan will learn that her ex husband is actually married to Eleanor. So they just spun it as a big ambush on Eleanor or on Nancy, which is fucked up. So June 10, 2000, about a month later, Eleanor now gets in on all these injunctions going back and forth. Eleanor files a petition for an injunction against Ralph. Now what is going on a month later? Now Ralph and Eleanor are now broken up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All of a sudden, they're not doing great.

[James Petregallo]

No. And she's filing fucking, you know, restraining orders against him. Yeah, she said, quote, she said also that. That Nancy was still stalking them. Said that it just got to the point where anywhere we went, she would find a way to show up. It just got worse as time went on and we couldn't get any peace. So. June 15, 2000. Dude, this is just put a neck brace on so you don't get whiplash. So they're together. Okay? May is the show. Fuck Nancy. Eleanor and Ralph are solid. June 10, 2000, Eleanor says, Fuck Ralph. He's a piece of shit. June 15, 2000. Five days later, Nancy and Ralph buy a house together. I couldn't. This is insane. This is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He took this woman on a show two months ago, a month ago, and told her he wanted nothing to do with her. Now we need to make fun of her.

[James Petregallo]

Called her a piece of shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Picket fence together. We need to own half a picket fence.

[James Petregallo]

This is crazy. I'll show you nice little house too. I'll show you. Here. It's on a lease option to buy. Lease to buy basis here. At the time, the house was worth $103,000. By the way, the zestimate on this house right now is $450,800. It's a two bedroom, two bath, 1300 square foot house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Half a million dollars.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, look at that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

Half a million dollars. Just about. For that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Boring.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think so. It's fine. It's a nice little house, but I mean, a half million dollars worth of house. People move to Florida to not pay a half million dollars for a little house. So there's the house they move in. 2827 Grand Cayman street in Sarasota. That address should sound familiar to everybody from the beginning of the show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is from Nancy's son. He says after the taping of the show, mom was determined to go on with her life without Ralph. She didn't want anything more from him. I don't know what happened in the two or three months after they were on the stage, but somehow they got back together at that point. Yeah, I don't get it either. She put money down on a home. And then he went back to his old ways. He threatened her again. And like she did on the show, she wasn't going to take it anymore. So. But that was. This is not for a few days anyway. So June 15, they buy the house. June 20, five days after that, Ralph files for divorce from Eleanor.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, so that's done.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, well, we'll see. But by early July, Ralph started messaging Eleanor again, asking him. Asking her to take him back, reconcile, babe. He's still living with Nancy. This is insane. These women should get together, have lunch and go. Let's both beat the shit out of him. He's the problem.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. You flatten the left side, I'll flatten the right side.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. What are we doing here? Why are we fighting with each other? So, July 10, 2000. This is a month after Eleanor filed against him. And less than a month after he moved into a house with Nancy. Ralph moves into. Okay, this is crazy. He left the house. Okay, like I said, he's messaging with Eleanor, leaves the house, then on July 10, he moves back into the house with Eleanor.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

He brings his wife to Nancy's house and moves in. So now it's the three of them living there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why would Nancy allow this?

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck kind of demented three's company is going on here? This is crazy. Don Knotts would have nothing to do with this. Holy shit. Unbelievable. So I don't even know what to say about that. Now this day, July 10, they came 8:14am so they haven't been there that fucking long. So early. The Sarasota Sheriff's Office reports Nancy was made to leave by a Deputy answering a call for a disturbance at the home with Eleanor. Eleanor called the cops on Nancy, saying that they were fighting and you need to get Nancy out of the house. So the cops come and remove Nancy from the home.

[Jimmy Wissman]

From her own home.

[James Petregallo]

From her own home that they just moved back into. This is insane. I don't even know what's going on here. So the police were having to show up at the home apparently all the time to break up fights between the two of them or the three of them, mainly between the two women, both claiming Ralph is their husband. Wow. I mean, dude, this is exhausting. 12:05pm that day. So 8:14 is remove Nancy. 1205, Ralph again calls the sheriff's office to report his cell phone was missing from his home. And he suspected that Nancy took it when she left earlier that morning.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, because she needs to do that.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. So July 11th, the next morning, Nancy tries to get an injunction to be able to go back to her house and get them out of the house. Okay, that's what she's going for. Nancy testified during an injunction hearing that, quote, I was so scared of them that I left immediately. She said that she went to live with her aunt and uncle in Manatee county, and Nancy was denied an injunction against Eleanor. Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, what? Can we kick her out of my house, though?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, that's. That's what she was trying to do. Nope. Because Ralph is on half the lease too, and she can stay. Yep. So that's how it goes. Now someone else does get an injunction that day, though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who's that?

[James Petregallo]

Not Nancy. No. Marcus Panitz. Marcus? Yeah. Marcus is Ralph's German nephew who also lives here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

He's moved into the house now as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who did get an injunction against Nancy? Oh, dear Lord.

[James Petregallo]

He gets an injunction against Nancy. Nancy claiming she threatened him. So now there's an actual injunction against Nancy to not go to her house because her ex husband's nephew said that she threatened him and lives in her house, and he lives in her house with Ralph. And Ralph's not quite. Ex wife. Yeah. What do you call? I don't even know. This is a fucking mess. Yeah, this is a mess. Just. This is one of those where you need somebody to come in and go, nobody talk to each other ever again. None of you. I swear to God, if I see two of you in the same room, I'm killing both of you. I swear to Christ, I'm gonna put a bullet in ball all your fucking heads if you're ever in the same room.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is she just a hopeless romantic? Is that what it is? She just wants.

[James Petregallo]

She's in love with Ralph. She loved Ralph and Nancy. Like I said, she's not a woman who dated a lot. This is. She was married and they never really had another relationship. So it's like she's a widow in her mind. You marry a guy, then that's your husband and you stay with them and you're a couple, whatever. And then. Yeah, so Ralph doesn't see it that way much more. Ever think of the Germans as being real loose and willy nilly but apparently this guy is just. They are in the sex though. Maybe the Eleanor does poop stuff for him. I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She might be getting some scat play.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we don't know. That's what I mean. We don't know. We can't know. July 13, 2000. Last one. The injunction day was July 11. July 13, 2000. 11:15am There is a visit from the sheriff's office. Ralph says he heard a noise outside at about 2:30pm or 2:30am that morning and he went out to investigate and found the garage door was open. He said he knew that he closed it before going to bed but didn't lock it. He told the deputy he believed that Nancy was responsible. You know what was stolen? What? Wallpaper paste and a gray metal box. Yeah, that's what your ex wants. You really want your wallpaper paste. Not that you're in a place that has twice the national average of property crime and you left your garage door open and someone stole your wallpaper paste because they could sell that at a construction site or something for a few bucks. Not that at all. I'm sure it's. Nancy said, I'll take this box and wallpaper paste. That'll show him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nancy. Yeah, she. Big, big caper there. She's.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's waiting for your. For your garage door to be left open so she can sit.

[James Petregallo]

She's been looking, waiting for it to be. And then she got him in the car. Think about it. She put that wallpaper paste right on the seat next to her in the front seat, started up her car. As soon as it went in reverse she went. That's right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now I got him.

[James Petregallo]

The perfect crime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You'll never know.

[James Petregallo]

Now I got him. So about a week and a half, almost two weeks goes by. Okay. She is going to end up as we'll talk about here, trying to get another injunction here. She gets an injunction against Eleanor and she has to stay. Eleanor has to stay 500ft away from her. Meaning that Eleanor then has to leave this house. Okay, so that's how that goes. Then she also gets an order of protection against Ralph for domestic violence. She told the judge he is frequently violent. That morning, the one they're discussing in this. Whatever morning they were together, he had chased me with a knife. With a knife. And made threats about taking my life, ending my life the way he was going to torture me. Whoa. So he's ordered to stay 500ft away also. And she has given exclusive possession and living rights to the Grand Cayman street property. Holy goddamn shit. This is wild, man. So the problem is the sheriff goes to serve Eleanor with her injunction at 10:45am at the house. But Eleanor presented an injunction issued in Manatee county against Nancy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, what is going on?

[James Petregallo]

So they said, well, what do we do? We have dueling injunctions. So the sheriff had to leave. The court order prohibited Nancy from coming within 500ft of the residence. No one's allowed to be within 500ft of this residence at this point. These are in. You ever seen, like a crime movie where, like, people realize we've been double crossing each other and then all three people take guns out at the same time and they point them at each other. I point at him, then I point at him and he points at. That's what this is, a ridiculous comedic. Not comedic because it's tragic, but fuck, this is ridiculous, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They need to sell this home. And she and Ralph go separate ways forever.

[James Petregallo]

So the deputy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a lease. They can get out.

[James Petregallo]

We're leaving. Don't you want us to leave? Since the cops are here every day, you probably don't want that in your house. So the deputy couldn't determine who had legal rights to the house, so he told Nancy she had to meet with another deputy in the civil department of the sheriff's office to resolve the discretion discrepancies and the two injunctions. She's back to square one. She's fucked. So July 24, 2000. Okay, remember we started on that day. Nancy's in court that morning working this out. This is Nancy's attorney. Quote, there had been several incidents with Ralph before, and this time he'd actually been kicked out of her house. Nancy said to me that her and Ralph had been on the Jerry Springer show and that it was about. It was going to air in two weeks. They're talking about two weeks earlier because this is the day where the Jerry springer Show airs. July 24th. He said, that didn't register with me. I really felt from her that it was between her and Ralph. She was done with him and she wanted to get back into her house. So they. There's a tape recording in which Nancy gets a court order against him. They have like the court tape here. And tells the judge that. That Ralph had beat her several times during their marriage. And she said till recently she had been trying to reconcile with him. She even said she wanted to remarry him before she learned on the Springer episode that he was already remarried. That's what she's telling the judge.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Since then she said she just wanted to get on with her life. Meanwhile, she bought a house with the guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't move on with your life.

[James Petregallo]

No. It's fucking sad because she's just. I think she's just a nice lady who's looking for. Looking for someone to be around.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Look at someone to have a good time with and grow old with. It doesn't seem. That's crazy. So Nancy even said that she shared her home with Ralph and his new wife, not knowing that they were married shortly after she divorced him. Meaning before they went on the show. They lived together for a couple weeks because she thought that Eleanor was just some friend of his that needed a place to stay for a minute. It not his mistress or his wife actually at the time. So. Oh my God. Then she said. She goes on to say that on July 10th that Ralph chased her with a knife and made threats. Remember July 10th was one of those court days that we talked about. She said he spent a couple of hours Sunday, a couple of hours telling me how he would kill me and my whole family. He was trying to think of a way to do it it. To get away with it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

By the way, I'm going to kill your whole family. I'm just. Once I figure it out, it's gone.

[James Petregallo]

Scratching his head with the knife blade going. I just can't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Figure it out. You watch out.

[James Petregallo]

I can't configure it. I just don't know. So the Ralph. Because Ralph is in court too. Ralph tells the judge that Nancy's the aggressor and had been stalking him. He said he went on the Springer show because he thought if she was confronted before a national audience, maybe she'd leave him alone. Finally, the judge, Robert Bennett, signed a permanent injunction against Ralph after the hearing and a sheriff's deputy served the order that evening. Ralph was so pissed off that he was overheard by a bailiff saying that his ex wife would never get the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Even though the Judge just issued a permanent injunction against him going to that house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She'll never get it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, she's never gonna get it. Well, Nancy's lawyer said when Ralph walked out of that courtroom, he wasn't cursing or stomping. He seemed resigned to the ruling. There wasn't really an issue. But then he went to a bar and they were playing the episode. Ralph watched the entire show getting drunk and he was getting more agitated. So. And then at one point during this, he turns to just a person who's at the bar and says, I'm going to kill her, and then keeps drinking. Okay, now, so let's talk about later that afternoon. This is after court. This is the afternoon the Jerry Springer show airs. And if you remember, that's an afternoon show. It's always on, like when you get home from school. Jerry Springer's on. Back in the day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Was it two or was it one? Was it two?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know about Arizona. I lived in New York, so I didn't know about the Arizona, but it was like three o' clock in New York or whatever. And it was on like four different, different channels. It was on. It fucking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the other part. It. You could watch two episodes in a day because it was like syndicated and tbs and it was crazy.

[James Petregallo]

They'd have an early show, then there'd be another one on at like 11 o' clock at night or midnight, different episode. And then sometimes they show like four of them in a row and be like, great, I'm just watching this all night. So that's what happened. So later on that afternoon, like we said, Ralph watches the Jerry Springer episode at a bar drinking Ice House beer. Oh, he really wants to shit later. Boy, that is a choice. You'd think a German would pick a better beer than Ice House, you know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Were they out of Rolling Rock, man?

[James Petregallo]

Were they at a Red Dog? What happened? Trying to think of 2000 era beers. Oh, boy, that is fucking awful. So they, him and his nephew watched the episode. So him and Marcus, remember Marcus here they sat and drank heavily, according to witnesses. And Marcus and everybody else. So they, they went to. He was with, by the way, Marcus was with Ralph and Eleanor when they went to court that day. Oh, he came with them because remember, he's like living there too. So after the judge granted possession of the house to Nancy, Marcus said his uncle was upset and angry and excited. Excited, but in a heavy German accent. So even more angry. Upset and excited. Eleanor and Marcus left Ralph at the bar. While they went to the residence to gather their belongings because they're not supposed to be there. So they have to go get their shit out of the house, essentially. So they come back to the bar, Marcus and Eleanor, to watch the Jerry Springer show with a now quite intoxicated Ralph. Apparently, from what everybody says, they watch it. And apparently Marcus said that Ralph told him, quote, I'm going back to the house. It's my house, not Nancy's house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Now, by the way, there's a couple more details, one of which is absolutely hilarious that we'll talk about in a little while because it is one of the details of him at the bar for hours. It's so fucking funny. So I can't wait to tell you. Especially now. Marcus said that his uncle was drinking heavily after the show ended. Ralph, quote, persuaded Marcus and Eleanor to drive him to the house, even though it's very illegal for him to be within 500ft of it. So Marcus says, quote, we walked into the master bedroom, my uncle threw himself on the bed, saying, it's my house. But Marcus said, I saw police through the window. My uncle. Yeah, whoops. My uncle jumped off the bed, ran to the dining room and climbed out of the window. He escaped through a fucking window.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he's aware that even though it's his house, he's not leaving through doors.

[James Petregallo]

So, no, he's not opening the door, going, telling the cops, this is my house. Go away. That's. Yeah, he knows. What's up?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Up?

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the sheriffs come, and Eleanor and Marcus are left in the house, and they're there to pack their shit and then leave the property. Now there, I guess, had been a. They had made a plan before. As he's jumping out the window, he said, meet me at the 7 11. There's a 711 near here store. Okay. So Marcus and Eleanor get all their shit and go to the 711 where they thought they could find Ralph, where he's supposed to be, but he's not there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Rendezvous at the Tornado Grillers.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Gotta have it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what's going on here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the safe house, is the 7 11.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Hook up at the Big Gulp stand. Let's do it. Yeah. And they said that they couldn't find him. Marcus said he and Eleanor separated to search for Ralph, but couldn't find him. So Marcus said that he then returned after looking for his uncle, returned to the 7:11 again so that he could call his girlfriend because he doesn't have a cell phone, I don't think. And that's when Eleanor ran up to him at the 7:11 in a panic and saying. And she's, you know, going crazy. Going crazy. He said that. That they were doing this. Eleanor ran up and said, quote, hurry up. Ralph is going into the house and he's going to. And he's trying to kill Nancy. Nancy's crying for help.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh. So she's there and he's there, and.

[James Petregallo]

They'Re in the house, and Eleanor is coming to get Marcus to get help for this. So Eleanor, one thing I'll give her, at least she didn't jump in and try to, like, you know, go, yeah, get her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She at least is encourage it. She's trying to do that. So then he said, Eleanor must have seen something that made her very frightened, he said, because she said she had a terrified look on her face like, oh, my God, she came up. This was no games. So Marcus. They run back to the house. Marcus is crying, yelling for help as he walks up the street here for neighbors, basically looking for neighbors. They find a neighbor named Ron Shinn. And this neighbor says, Marcus told me his Uncle Ralph was in the house, that he was drunk and that he was killing his ex wife and himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

So the guy said, marcus was asking me for help. So this neighbor who lives right across the street said that Marcus, you know, that Marcus said that his uncle had been hiding in the trees earlier when police arrived to escort Marcus and Eleanor off the property, which he climbed out the window and hid in the trees. That's what he did. So this neighbor also said that he tried to enter the home through the front door. How about call the cops? What are you. Why would. There's people in there murdering each other. Let me head right in there then. No, that's when I turn around and walk the opposite way and call 911. That's not my fucking job to deal with this. So Shin said said that he tried to enter the home through the front door, but it was barricaded from the inside, as we remember. So he called 91 1. Finally. There you go. And another neighbor said that they heard. So he called 911 based on that. That's the one call saying a man and a woman. Then another neighbor said that he heard screams coming from the residence less than an hour before that as well. He said, I heard a screaming male voice that sounded angry, loud, and I couldn't understand what was said. The screaming stopped as suddenly as it started. I saw Eleanor Panitz standing on the street screaming in the direction of the house. I heard her yell, ron, don't do this. And she looked like she had seen a ghost. And later on he'll say that he misheard it. It's Ralph. That she said. But he just thought it was. He didn't remember when he was telling the cops. I think she said, ron, don't do this. But when they said, was it Ralph? He was like, yeah, yeah, Ralph. My bad, my bad. That's the name. Yeah. Couldn't remember the name. So that's what's going on here. Now, according to Eleanor, while this is going on, Marcus with the neighbors guy trying to bust in, 91 1's being called from two different places. Eleanor decided to circle the block a few times because she didn't want to be seen at the house when police arrived.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

So that's when she spotted Ralph running down the street. Oh, yeah. She's like fucking raising Arizona or some shit. Like, he's got a panty on his head and some underwear. So you got a panty on your head? Yeah. Huggies Huggies.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Huggies, that's right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Get some Huggies. So she told him to get in the car and he, I assume threw the Huggies in and then dove in head first. So Doberman's chasing him, Doberman's chasing him. Fucking people shooting at him. Some toothless hillbilly clerk shooting at him. So he gets in the car, they take off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Gone from the scene. Police arrive, 7:35. They break down the door and that's when they find Nancy in the house and unrecognizably beaten. Unrecognized. She's been strangled and beaten to death as well. And by the way, Ralph is a black belt in karate also.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. He knows how to fight, throw punches and kicks. I didn't know about German karate, love, but apparently I didn't know. Yeah, big Van Damme. Big Van Damme fan. Saw Bloodsport. Really got into it. I don't know, I'm not sure Van Damme is Belgian. I understand. But close. Close. Fucking enough a beer country that they share a border with eat dicks. So this is. She's in there. She's in horrible condition. It's an extremely bloody scene. Blood everywhere. I mean everywhere. They said that. Jesus Christ. The fucking Nancy's. Wow. Her bones of her face were separated from the bones of her skull.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my.

[James Petregallo]

We've done this show a long time. I've never heard of anybody getting beaten.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That bad just with fists.

[James Petregallo]

Fists and feet. She's been stomped.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

This is mainly from being stomped.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

This is horrific. Dude. Imagine a person is on the ground and you stomping their fucking head until they're all their bones aren't connected anymore. Imagine that. How horrifying that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Separated the facial bones from the rest of the head.

[James Petregallo]

Basically just like a melon smashing against a tile floor. It's horrifying, man. There were shoe print impressions left in the blood on the kitchen floor and shoe prints on her face.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a.

[James Petregallo]

That's how hard she was being kicked. But in the print, a Skechers logo could be made out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He wears Shape Ups.

[James Petregallo]

Swearing some sketchers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he really cares about that lower back.

[James Petregallo]

He does. He's like, man, he's got soreness. You don't understand. It's hard to be a German philandering karate expert. Your back gets sore. It's very difficult.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm surprised he's getting so much pussy wearing Skechers.

[James Petregallo]

He's wearing. Dude, this. When you see this guy, you're like, why is Everyone clamoring over this fucking dildo.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's wearing Skechers, ladies.

[James Petregallo]

And he speaks with a hilariously funny German accent. Like, this is ridiculous. Skechers. That's the ultimate funny accent.

[Jimmy Wissman]

German.

[James Petregallo]

It's fucking. When I was like, five, six years old, my mother's friends, they. All. My mother's friends knew this guy from Germany came over. He was like a young guy. He was like in his early 20s, I guess. My mom was. Christ, she was probably 25 at the time. I don't know. Anyway, how. We hung out with this guy, her and her friends and this guy. We went to, like, the Bronx Zoo and shit. And the whole day was just him marveling at things and all of us cracking up, laughing at him because he talks so funny. That was. It was so fucking funny.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think. I think World War II may have been avoided had Hitler been wearing those stupid fucking shoes. Nobody had taken them seriously.

[James Petregallo]

No one would have taken them seriously. Yeah, he couldn't. Couldn't have. Definitely not. Fucking Germans. Yeah, they're different. So anyway, so now they got to find who was wearing the Skecher. Yeah, basically. Now, Nancy's son says, this is Jeffrey again. They told me someone had attacked my mom, choked her, pushed her down on the floor and stomped on her head. That was the cause of death. They said it was one of the worst scenes they'd ever encountered. They had no idea what was going on, the cops. But they definitely needed to speak to Ralph, probably, since he's the missing entity here. He's the prime suspect, since they were just at court that morning and they didn't know. Also, Eleanor's not around. They don't know if she's an accomplice. They don't know if she's a hostage. They have no idea what's going on here. So they issue a BOLO alert for them, and they are reportedly seen fleeing the area, heading towards South Carolina and then west. They're headed west toward the Midwest is all they could figure out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, head on up to South Carolina and then head west. Was at the 40.

[James Petregallo]

What is that up there? And I don't think they were taking the 40. They were just taking other shit heading west. So the sheriff's department said that they're not suspects, but they're wanted for questioning.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they have a nationwide manhunt for people who aren't suspects.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

The. They're searching for this couple here. A. A first degree murder warrant is issued for Ralph, and detectives want to detain Eleanor as a witness as A material witness. So they think that they're trying to flee to Canada. Yeah, they believe. They think that. They believe they were. They were seen in Maine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Is why they were spotted in Maine. And they're believed to be trying to reach Canada. They believe that he is trying to get to the German embassy in Canada.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And that she is a Native American and may be trying to reach a reservation near Campbellton, New Brunswick in Canada to get protection there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's going to stay up in New Brunswick. Oh, she's about to be in for a fucking life changing experience up there.

[James Petregallo]

It's a little different. A little different.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sarasota to New Brunswick. All right.

[James Petregallo]

But ollioli oxen free home base can't get me though, for both of them. That's what they're trying to do. They're both trying to home base each other. There's. So the Jerry Springer show makes a comment saying, quote, this is a terrible tragedy. That's all. And that the show is cooperating with the police investigation in any way they can. What?

[Jimmy Wissman]

She slipped. What are we talking about?

[James Petregallo]

Terrible tragedy. We're sorry. Tragedy like Lori Valo calls murdering and dismembering her daughter as a tragedy. Family tragedy. Family tragedy. Don't turn it into a crime. Jesus. As she said, ridiculous. So Jerry Springer, who has a home in Sarasota that he spends much time at. So the Sarasota News now contacted him and he says, I don't remember them. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You don't remember the one group of people that didn't throw fists on your show?

[James Petregallo]

The one lady, nice lady, didn't look like she was from a trailer in the hills, who just. That's fine. By and left. Don't remember her, huh?

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

He said, quote, obviously this is a terrible situation. And I know that our company is cooperating fully with the police and I hope they find the person who killed her. Yeah, he said, he. They said, but you can't remember who they were. And he said, quote, if the guy was £300, maybe I'd remember him. Or if he liked to be thrown on or something. Thrown up on or something. But no, that's the real weird people he remembers. Not the one person who doesn't fight. Okay, Jer, Come on, Jer, that's bullshit. But he said the name meant nothing to him. Don't know what you're talking about. Now this is adding to a larger problem with talk shows that their talk shows were having at the time. And that Was people were starting to turn on them and go, hey, you're not good for society. Basically, this is bad stuff. And this is the second talk show murder that's happened in five years.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, between that guy. That.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that was a bad one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jenny Jones.

[James Petregallo]

Nice. 1995 Jenny Jones show guest was killed after appearing in an episode about secret crushes. And I've seen a documentary on this, too. It's a very weird story. Yeah. Jonathan Schmitz was convicted of the 1995 shooting death of Scott Amador after they appeared on the Jenny Jones show about secret crush. The guy came on thinking, if you don't know, if you've never heard it. One of the guys, the murderer, came on thinking that a woman had a secret crush on him. So he was there to meet a crush, and it turned out to be his guy friend.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And so not too long after, very evidently gay. Oh, he was. Yeah. There was no way that you readily gay be around that guy and think that, you know, let's go out for chicks tonight. Let's go find.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sit down next to that guy. He's not going to be like, you're not going to believe who has a crush on you, Sarah. You know, I mean, some. Yeah, some girl that we know. That's not going to happen. He sat down. You should be like, oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

So, but I mean, rather than just being flattered and saying you're not interested, it escalated higher than that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why is it so hard?

[James Petregallo]

I don't understand why I can't. Have you ever had a woman like you that you weren't interested in? You just go, I'm not really interested. It's just. Yeah, just not interested. No, thanks. You don't have to kill them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think you're marvelous. Yeah, I'm not gonna fuck you. That's not that big of a deal.

[James Petregallo]

Now, that episode was never broadcast because they were killed before it aired. The murder was before it aired. Amador's family was awarded $25 million by a Michigan jury that found the show and its producer, Warner Brothers, negligent in his death.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Michigan has a tie to this, too. God damn.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. So, I mean, it's weird. Oh, it's. That lawyer will be involved in this, too. The lawyer who got the 25 million will be involved in this. He's gonna be Ralph's defense attorney. It's interesting. So anyway, obviously the police unravel the whole mess. They had to go into the court dockets and just go through everything and put together a trail of. Of fucking restraining orders. And people breaking up, getting back together and marriages and divorces and deeds and it's just a lot man Lease agreements with cohabitants.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is nuts.

[James Petregallo]

It's so weird. A spokesman for the sheriff's office did say that Eleanor had a court order saying that she was allowed to be there to get her shit. So that's one thing they say now, Ralph and Eleanor eventually surrender to authorities. They flew into Florida. They flew from Maine to Florida.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They did go to Maine.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, they went to Maine. That's what they were seeing. They were held without bail at first. Now, Eleanor claims that she had no idea what happened to Nancy. She said she thought they were fleeing from immigration officials, not the cops. She said Ralph said that immigration came for him, so that's why they were fleeing, was to get away from that. So she's like, I didn't know even that Nancy was dead. According to Eleanor, Ralph convinced her that Nancy had called immigration on him. That's why he took off. So, Eleanor, was it because you thought you ran up to Marcus saying that he was trying to kill her? Maybe that's right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What about that?

[James Petregallo]

She would have done that. Yeah. So Eleanor believed Ralph was on the run from that threat, not a murder investigation. And she said she didn't know anything about Nancy's death until days later when her father called her to tell her Nancy was dead. And that's when it began to. That's when the whole thing unfolded.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So a man. A man punched and stomped a woman to death and then escaped on foot. You picked him up on the street, he didn't have a drop of blood on him?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. Obviously not. No. Actually, it's really funny because when they did turn themselves in, little things are there. Ralph is wearing the same pair of blue sketchers that he wore to murder Nancy. The shoes matched the prince perfectly that were found in Nancy's blood and on her face.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So there has to be blood all over, though.

[James Petregallo]

She didn't see that. That's what I mean. I'm sure he went out and hosed them off or whatever. But they're not getting blood out. Not enough out of there. Shoelaces and shit. No way. So Ralph is going to plead innocent? Not guilty. Oh, yeah. Eleanor is not charged at all. And as a matter of fact, is given immunity to all charges in order to answer the. The detectives questions. They give her immunity to everything, which seems extremely generous.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Like, next level generous. Sure. You help a guy escape after that. Sure. Seems like you knew about it. And we're in on it. It's just. It's just from my point of view.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Turn the tables and he's going to. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. I don't know anything. In his German accent.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, like, sure you don't.

[James Petregallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's covered in blood, man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, let's go. Fucking dipshit. Moving along. I don't. Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's just no way he wasn't covered in blood. There's just no way.

[James Petregallo]

No fucking way. He's got at least his legs, his feet, his pant legs. All that kind of shit's got to be covered in blood. So. So Jack McGill, who's Ellen Eleanor's lawyer, said that he wouldn't comments on. On comment on the case itself. But when they asked about, you know, threat that she's made in limousines and things like that, he said, you get new wives and ex wives. You probably get some statements like that that are not seriously made, you know, just random threats to kill in public. People do that, you know. So the Jerry Springer show, they hear that they're all getting subpoenaed. The whole staff is getting subpoenaed here. They don't want to be subpoenaed. So if this was from the documentary too, one of the producers said the rumors were we were going to be subpoenaed. That's when Richard called me into a meeting and said, I like that Jamaica show idea at a swingers resort. Everyone's going. He said, I don't want to get.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The plane ticket to Hedonism.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, I don't want Richard to get at me. But if you are going to subpoena someone, all of them were there. That's a great coincidence. We never got subpoenaed. So when the subpoenas were coming, they all went down and spent like a week in Jamaica, the whole fucking and crew. And nobody got subpoenaed. So that's interesting. Now Dominic denied that accusation. In a separate thing here, Netflix noted at the end of the doc that the show denied they ever attempted to evade subpoenas, which looks like they did.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But you left the country after a really awful thing happened.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Real convenient. The Richard Dominic said there's a rumor going out that the. The company took the entire show and sent us to Jamaica to get Jerry out of the country. That is bullshit because you can't take a whole show and 60 people on a whim and move them. It's impossible. And said that Springer would have Quit if the show was somehow responsible for the events that led to Nancy's death. No, he just said he didn't even remember them. He totally blew off the question. We talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

So then Eleanor tells the cop she's got to do something for her immunity here. She tells the cops that Ralph was so upset after being banned from the house and banished that he banned, barred and banished from the house, that he tried to kill himself by jumping in front of a moving car, but the driver swerved. She said then he'd been drinking that day all day. And they all watched the Springer show at the bar and Ralph was drunk when they all went to collect the couple's belongings. Nancy and the sheriff's deputies arrived while they were there. And Ralph fled through the back of the home while Eleanor and Marcus left in their car. When they returned to get him, Eleanor said she found him dazed on the street, running down the street, picked him up and left. Marcus, who found the door barricaded, he was the one who called authorities. Eleanor said she feared that her husband would be arrested for violating the restraining order, so they fled the state looking for a German consulate to help.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Help.

[James Petregallo]

Eleanor was asked by her lawyer in this questioning if she thought her husband had killed his ex wife. She said, quote, I can't imagine that he did. No matter everything that's happened, Ralph has always said, I don't hate Nancy. I don't hate that woman. And she also said she didn't see any blood on her husband, which I find extremely hard to believe. Just extremely hard to believe. They did find her blood on his shoes and shoe prints matching in her face and floor and his DNA under her fingernails as well. You know, fighting back. That's. You're fucked.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, done.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, that's all. Blood here, blood there. Shoe print, your shoes in the blood, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You did it.

[James Petregallo]

Your sketcher print fits her face. Fucking indentation. So talk shows, now it's even more under fire with these fucking talk shows. Here is an article called do the show, get the treatment. This is from the Times of London. You know, England, and it says, let's say for the sake of argument that you had slept with your sister's husband. You would probably want to keep quiet about it. You might tell a priest, a therapist, or your closest confidant, but no one else. But if you lived in Hicksville, usa, however, you might take a different approach. You might appear on a North American TV show, ambush your sister with the good news, proposition her husband, and wait for the punch up to begin, what's wrong with the people who appear on U.S. reality talk shows? Shouldn't they be receiving psychological or psychiatric treatment rather than disporting themselves on continent wide tv? Why did they get out of bearing their darkest secrets? What do they get out of bearing their darkest secrets? Before millions, they say. These questions were brought into stark focus when the Nancy Campbell Panitz murder happened just hours after millions had watched her pre recorded appearance on the Jerry Springer Show. But if in America, but if America and the rest of the talk show watching world was shocked by that death, there's one man who's not surprised. Jamie Huysman, H U Y S M A N a licensed child and family therapist from Florida who has a business called Aftercare providing help for the, quote, disposable people who appear on US talk shows.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God dang.

[James Petregallo]

That's the best way to describe them for society. We're literally like run out there, dance around, just ruin your lives, ruin your employment prospects, embarrass yourself in front of your friends, ruin your relationships, punch each other in the face. And then when I'm tired of watching you fuck off so the next people can come out and do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Disposable.

[James Petregallo]

That's the kind of disposable. Yeah. This guy made a career out of these people, some of whom who do require psychological treatment. Television producers pay him to barter these deals so that tragedy such as this death can be averted. What a weird business this guy has. It's the same thing over and over again, which is very interesting here. So, yeah, this guy anyway, claims that this, you know, he was pitching it to the networks to have a guy like this. I guess he was on the Geraldo Rivera show at one point to argue with a journalist from the National Enquirer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

Which is interesting. Who knows? Geraldo needed somebody to argue with and there was no Klansmen and Black Panthers available that day. No Nazis and fucking, you know, rabbi coalition people. So a father and daughter who were engaged in an incestuous relationship had agreed to appear on the show in disguise. And this guy said the disguises were poor. He looked terrible. She looked pretty bad. And then of all things, they brought out her identical twin sister without any disguise. She looks like that. So things like that happen. This guy says everyone asks, why does anyone go on talk shows? Most of these people have tried everything to deal with the issue at hand. There's hospitals all over the country that they can't get into unless they've been on a talk show and unless the treatment Centers get the prominence they're seeking. So, yeah, they said to get ratings on tv, you need great clinical challenges. The guests have to be very sick to get good ratings. So it can be heinous people. So it can be a heinous couple or trio you bring onto a stage with big problems. That's kind of how it goes. And he talks just all about different people's going on, you know, all different people he's dealt with, basically, and the people he's worked for. I guess the Lisa show hires him so he can do. Oh, boy, treat the people afterwards or whatever. So Ralph's trial comes up now. Okay? It is a media fucking circus, man. Yeah, media circus. They say that the Jerry Springer show shows in Great Britain, which is why we're all here, which is what a British reporter said. Everybody in England, he's getting paid for that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jerry must have been incredibly wealthy.

[James Petregallo]

He actually didn't make that much money because he didn't own that show. That wasn't. Who owned that. They. The production company, really. They hired him to be the host of the show. So he didn't make dick compared to Oprah, who owns her syndicated show, or Arsenio or somebody like that, who made money. Jerry did not make as much money as everybody else.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He may have made 60 to 75 million dollars.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Oprah made billions. See what I'm saying different? I think Arsenio made more than that in 1991 because he owned the show and had the syndication rights.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He had a salary of 8 million a year. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

That is insane. Most underpaid.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He beat Oprah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he was the most underpaid guy on television by far. He was just the host. That's it. So, yeah, it showed over there. Think about them watching American trailer trash fight each other. That's like. That would. That's like. If we were watching, like, British people drink tea properly, like. Yeah, that's what we look at. That's what they think of us anyway, so they can look at it. So this guy went on to say it made quite a big story when it happened. German and Japanese television stations have also shown interest. So they're going to be coming. It's just a big deal. Court TV plan to broadcast parts of the trial live. A Court TV cameraman said the station had three different crews at the courthouse covering various angles of the trial. And they expect the defense attorney, Feger, a Michigan attorney who defended the assisted suicide advocate, Dr. Kevorkian, to make the trial interesting. He's a big. Yeah, he did that. Yeah, that's right. He wasn't involved in the lawsuit. He was involved in Kevorkian. Wrong about that. So this guy said he'll keep things moving and keep things entertaining. He's entertaining, all right. I'll say that much. So the Sarasota County Courthouse media room, although crowded, was able to hold about a dozen journalists. And they said, this is so easy for the media. If this would have happened in Bradenton, it would have been a nightmare. Nightmare because they have the, I guess, the facilities for it. Here representing Panets is Jeffrey Figar, or Figar, the Michigan attorney known for defending suicide, Dr. Kevorkian and suing the Jenny Jones Show. Nevermind. He did. He was. He was involved in both. If it's public and he'll get attention, he'll do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's into it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Figar said he's gonna call Jerry Springer himself as a witness. He already said, I don't remember these people, so good luck. Figar says police have accused the wrong man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

Mistaken identity, man. That's all I know, really. Another German guy running away with bloody footprints. That's fine. He said the detectives decided Ralph was the killer immediately and never looked for another suspect because his shoe prints were in her face. I think we got. What are we talking about here? While Feeger declined to say who he thinks the killer is, he did say he wanted to defend Ralph to ensure the German citizen had adequate representation. He said, I think it's important we show the rest of the world that we really are a paragon of freedom. And the judicial system is not like what Mr. Bush wants to set up, these military tribunal, kangaroo courts. This is a good, you know, because this is a time, you know, we're not looking that great on the world stage. Let's look better on the world stage by letting this guy go. So they'll love us for that. Yeah. He remained a critic of outlandish television talk shows. This lawyer also saying they provoke violence and should be held responsible for endangering people. But he insists that's not the case here. He said, these shows do have the potential to provoke violence. They are really playing with fire. I don't know if the evidence is going to show that the show is a provocative element in this killing. In any case, Ralph Panitz didn't do this killing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Didn't do it.

[James Petregallo]

So someone who saw them on Jerry Springer decided to come over and kill Nancy because she didn't fight enough. One of the producers, maybe Nancy's family's attorney, said Nancy was The victim of domestic violence. One of our concerns is that this has been about domestic violence and that that message doesn't seem to get through to anybody. He said that the family is still considering a civil lawsuit against the show, but wants to wait until after the criminal case is over to decide. Jesus Christ. They also said that the show had a responsibility to check for a history of domestic domestic violence before putting people in a confrontational situation, which, I mean, that makes sense.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They love confrontation.

[James Petregallo]

I know. I think they look for domestic violence in terms of they'll be great guests. They fight at home when no one's encouraging them to imagine if we put them out here. They said, certainly there should be heightened security or scrutiny. They should ask if there is a history of domestic violence, and if the answer is yes, they should not be allowed on the show. So this lawyer also says, I'll defend Mr. Springer's right to put whatever he wants on the show, but with those rights come some responsibilities. Now, here are the different cases for the prosecution on the defense. The prosecutor's case is this dipshit killed his wife. That's it. Came over and killed her. The defense is, this is wild. Someone else committed violence upon her, but that's not even what killed her. You know how she died?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Heart attack.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sometimes they make your face explode, man.

[James Petregallo]

Dude, all the bones pop right off your face and you have a heart attack.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's really high blood pressure.

[James Petregallo]

Boom. It'll pop you. The prosecution in their opening. This trial is amazing, okay? The prosecution told the jurors a little bit of a different story than that, describing Ralph as a black belt intruder who brutally beat and stomped poor Nancy to death. In his opening remarks, Charlie Roberts, the prosecutor, spoke to the mostly female jury. That's not good for Ralph, I don't think, in this particular case, being his womanizing and his domestic violence. For 40 minutes detailing his theory of the crime, Nancy Campbell was confronted by her husband. This is a quote. In her home, Ralph Panitz used his martial arts skills and beat and stomped Nancy to death. Said that pants choked Nancy with such strength as to break bones in her neck. Also said that Ralph was angry because earlier in the day, a judge had granted Nancy possession of the house. And also then the Jerry Springer show was on. She said this prosecutor said her only defense were her fingernails. Ralph Panett stomped on her head with such force that his shoe left a treadwear impression on Nancy's face and separated the the bones of the face from the bones of the skull. Also says her fingernails contain DNA that Was shown to be consistent with that of Ralph and that he had blood on his shoes. And holy shit, I have common sense. I mean, obviously, what's going on here? So he said one of the major pieces of evidence was the pair of shoes he was wearing when he turned himself in. He said Ralph leaves numerous bloody shoe impressions around his ex wife. Wife's body as well as on her face. Blood on the defendant's right shoe matched the victim's blood. Expert testimony will show individualized wear patterns on the shoes match the specific wear patterns that show up in Nancy Campbell's blood on the kitchen floor.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Roberts told the jury that the morning of the day that Nancy died, she'd gone to court begging for the judge, begging the judge for protection from Ralph. They said, you'll hear her own words in a tape of the hearing telling the judge that the defendant had, quote, chased me with a knife and made threats about taking my life. He also said another witness will testify that Ralph said, quote, she'll die someday and the house will be mine. Wow. The defense takes a different approach.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do they?

[James Petregallo]

It's hours long. Over two hours for an opening statement, which you're playing with fire there. I mean, two hours of this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somebody else come up?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this is America. If you putting something up for two hours, it better have transformers and car chases and shit, or else no one is watching that shit. Even, even the Springer show was an hour long. And those, that was, you know, hillbillies trying to murder each other. And we still were like, that's an hour. I'm tired of that. So. Wow. They said this is from a newspaper article. In a scenario befitting the tabloid television backdrop of the Jerry Springer murder trial, defense attorneys for Ralph Panitz painted an unsolved mystery that they say involves a setup. A missing right shoe, a botched police probe, and an uninvestigated suspect covered in blood, who they claim is the real killer of Nancy. He. This is sillier than O.J. wow. This is crazy. So in a two hour plus opening statement that put some courtroom observers to sleep, Feger countered the prosecution's allegations of what happened July 24, 2000, and pointed the finger at Marcus Panitz. It's the nephew who did it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Who was a key witness against his uncle. Figar said that witnesses saw the nephew dead drunk at the time Campbell. Campbell had died. Nancy had died. Marcus is the one who called police saying his, quote, aunt was hurt. The prosecutor has made a horrible mistake. The evidence in this case is circumstantial. Yeah, no, there's DNA evidence, but we'll get to that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Circumstantial DNA, James.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. He's got his own idea of what DNA is and it's hilarious. That's wild. So the evidence in this case is circumstantial. There's no witness and no proof. He said not only that did he not kill Nancy, but that she wasn't even murdered. No bones broken in her neck. She was strangled so hard and her face stopped to unrecognizability. This guy says, quote, diabetes, obesity and heart disease caused her death.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Are you the balls to go? She's just a fat and lazy. That's why she died. Her fucking head is smashed. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

To leave and get a job because she was so lazy.

[James Petregallo]

Lazy? That is insane. He went on to say she wasn't murdered. She was engaged in some fight, then fell and had a heart attack.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Then he told the jury that DNA isn't consistent enough. Not the DNA in this case. DNA in general.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

They said that the DNA under Nancy's fingernails was statistically more likely to come from a Hispanic male than from Ralph Panitz. Here it is, the quote of the day, everybody. DNA is just a fancy word for a guess.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Huh?

[James Petregallo]

Everybody taking that in, that's a fancy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Word for a guess.

[James Petregallo]

We're never speechless. No, that's insane. A fancy word for a guess. By 2001, we all knew what DNA was. Man, that is crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

DNA stands for do not assume.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah. If Nancy touched any of Ralph's clothing, he would have his DNA on her hands. Not under her finger? No, under fingers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do not assume.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck? Just a guess. Then they go on to disparage Nancy, telling the jury that Nancy had lied to the judge about her fear of Ralph. Just trying to get nefariously get him out of the house so she could have it all for herself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, so she could just be lazy in there all alone.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. They said that his nephew and they wanted to get rid of not only him, but his nephew and his new wife and to have the home to all to herself. Quote, she abused the legal system to punish these poor people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

Or these people not poor. I put that in myself. Then about the shoe prints. He says Figar tells the jury that all 19 of the shoe prints around the victim's body are of the right shoe and that there are no shoe prints leading away from the crime scene. Did he fly away? There's something really strange about these footprints. It Would be anatomically impossible for a person not to leave the left shoe print. The shoe prints showed perfect imprints in blood at various distances from the body. This would be impossible unless you used the shoe like a stamp and continually dip it in blood. So they're saying the cops took his shoe, which, by the way, he had on his foot still.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And borrowed it to make shoe prints in the crime scene.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then he got in a car and I don't know how. What. How you'd even. They said, hey, what kind of shoes does Ralph wear? Skechers. Okay, we got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then we can take care of that.

[James Petregallo]

That is wild. So figure also told the jury that pants didn't have a drop of blood on his clothing or in the car as he rode in. That he rode in for four days. But he promised to show the jury pictures of Marcus Panitz, his pants, legs splattered in blood. It's all his fault. Now the prosecution calls a witness to testify that he had seen Ralph at a restaurant that evening and he did not appear drunk. Oh, I think he's also German.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think that he can absorb it and do it. Well.

[James Petregallo]

I think the Germans know how to hold their beat. What? 10 ice houses aren't gonna. Is gonna put a German down.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That ain't gonna do it.

[James Petregallo]

No, not at all. They drink water. They drink a heavier.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. They brush their teeth with ice house.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's. That's pussy shit. You drink that on the basketball court instead of Gatorade. You just put that in a water bottle and squirt it on you. Now, nephew Marcus is on the stand for more than eight hours. They grill him. He spoke through a German interpreter, which must have been a lot of fun for the jury to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Eight hours of German to English and. Oh, God. And not only that, he told all the stuff that we said earlier that he said about going to 711 and coming in. That's. He just testified to all of that. Ralph testifies in his own defense. He's going to try to charm the. Charm the jury, because, as we know, nothing's more charming than Germans. Yeah, they're known as. They're real cuddly and warm and really will win your heart.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They do charm. I don't know how, but somehow they figure it out.

[James Petregallo]

They're not real cuddly, though. They're not like cuddly like a cactus. Ralph, he said, quote, we just wanted to tell. Talking about Jerry Springer show. Said, we just wanted to tell her that we were married and leave us alone. What happened on the show, we never intended. Okay. He also said he learned of his ex wife's death days later after he had left the state. When his wife's father called and told them about it, that was it. He said. I was extremely in shock. This is a German accent. I was extremely in shock. I could not believe what happened. They said he appeared confident and relaxed. On the stand. He denied hurting his wife. But he also testified that he doesn't remember much of what happened that afternoon until he woke up in a car being driven north on I95 by his wife the next day. I don't really remember much before that, he said. Interesting. He told the jurors he felt guilty about disrupting Marcus's life. And that's why he started drinking several 16 ounce bottles of ice House beer soon after the court hearing. When his wife and nephew cleared. While his wife and nephew cleared the belongings, he said that he. This is. Here it is. It's coming up. He testified that he drank another four to six bottles of beer when he and his nephew went to the neighborhood bar to watch watched the Springer show later switching to rum and Cokes when he started buying rounds of drinks for a stranger who he believed was Chevy Chase.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He testified to this.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I switched to rum and Cokes because I wanted to hang out with this guy, with Chevy Chase. So he continuously bought, quote, Chevy Chase rounds of drink.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Kind of looked like the guy because.

[James Petregallo]

He looked like Chevy Chase, apparently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't want to talk about your career, so I'll just buy your drinks for you. I'm a good guy.

[James Petregallo]

That's amazing. He's so drunk. He thought Chevy Chase was hanging out in the shithole neighborhood bar.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How blind drunk were you that you thought a man from SNL was sitting next to you?

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. Is that Fletch over there? What's going on? What's happening?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That is not Chevy Chase. The moose out front should have told you.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah, exactly. The show came on at the bar, but Ralph said he never saw it. Yeah, he said, I can't remember the show at all. I must have fell asleep. If you fell asleep at the bar, your ass would have been outside. Yeah, they had tossed you fucking head. I was a bouncer. Sleepers are the first people that are out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're gone. They're done out.

[James Petregallo]

Number one, you're too drunk to be in here. Number two, you're not buying anything more. Cause you're sleeping off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And as somebody sleeps, the deeper they sleep, the more comfortable they get. You're Going to be on the fucking floor sprawled out.

[James Petregallo]

You'll be on the floor farting soon. Get out. Farting. Ice house. Oh, God.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Snoring.

[James Petregallo]

It's got mag drooling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're trying to enjoy 50 Cent's new album. Get out.

[James Petregallo]

Get the fuck out. So Ralph testified at some point that day he ended up at his ex wife's home and vaguely remembers lying on a bed while he was there. The next. That quote, the next thing I recall was sleeping and Marcus and Eleanor saying something about, the police are here and I have to hide. He said that he also has vague recollections of Eleanor telling him to get in the car. He said he woke up the next morning as she was driving north through Georgia. He said that they didn't learn of his ex wife's death until Eleanor called her father, who told them a woman at the house had been slain and that they were wanted. Ralph said he cried at the news of his ex wife's death, adding that he still had feelings for her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I don't want her dead. Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I had a very. I had very deep emotion for Nan. I couldn't believe she was actually dead. Now, cross examination, he denied that he was upset about being forced to move. Said, that's fine. I wasn't there. You know who it really pissed off, though, Nancy? Marcus. Oh, that's who it pissed off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He is literally blaming Marcus.

[James Petregallo]

He's blaming Marcus. Yeah. He said that's who really. That really made him mad. I'll tell you what. So they. First, it was first degree murder charges here, but they end up dropping through. Somewhere in the case here, they drop the second. The first degree for a second degree murder. Murder, yeah. So that's what he's going to the jury for, his second degree murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now the jury. It's 10 days of a trial. 18 hours of deliberation. I don't exactly know what they're talking about for 18 fucking hours. I can't. I mean, what, like fishing this weekend? Like, what are we. What are they talking about in there for 18 hours? I don't get this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know. Can you believe he's wearing Skechers? Yeah, Skechers and Chevy Chase. You guys, he's a moron.

[James Petregallo]

Those Germans are fucking weird. They see Chevy Chase and everyone. Oh, every American looks like Chevy Chase to you? Is that what you're telling me? Great, thanks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chevy Chase.

[James Petregallo]

So several hours by the several days. 18 hours over several days. I think it's four days of deliberation, which Is crazy. He is found guilty of second degree murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of course.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. During sentencing, he doesn't attend his own sentencing. Doesn't want to hear it. Nope. Doesn't want to hear it. He's like Lori Valo going, I don't want to hear it. Can we just. Except he doesn't agree to stipulate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Awaiting my responses from Chevy Chase.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He watched tv. He watched the sentencing on TV in a holding cell. Eleanor said that he was on a hunger strike to protest his confinement in jail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, then go ahead and don't eat, then see if I give a fuck. Yeah, knock yourself out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck do I care.

[James Petregallo]

Nancy's sons, Gary and Jeffrey and Nancy's sister all asked for a life sentence here. They said he's a violent, angry, manipulative man who should not be allowed to enter society again. That's Gary, the son. Gary. The judge does not like Ralph.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

To say the least. Oh, no, not a fan. The judge holds up a bloody picture of Nancy's face for all the court to see.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, fuck.

[James Petregallo]

And says, ralph Panitz, this is how she died. You know, you're in deep shit at that point for the cameras. So he could see it in his little cell there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I sentence you to the only just sentence in this case. You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole. Wow. Keep on keeping on. He. This judge had the flexibility in second degree, he could have gotten as little as 20 years.

[Jimmy Wissman]

As little as. That's. That's so long.

[James Petregallo]

That's a lot. But it's not life without. He could have got 20 years, which you're out in 10 or 12 rather than. Or even 14. It's better than never, never, never, never, never, never, never, ever, ever. So the judge went on to say that this is the maximum sentence allowed by law for second degree murder, saying he showed no remorse. Held up the photograph and said that a life sentence is only just a sentence. And then said the judge also had harsh words for Jerry Springer, too, which is amazing. The judge said that the trio were, quote, manipulated by the show to increase their humiliation. And it was reprehensible to Jerry Springer and his producers. I ask you, are ratings more important than the dignity of human life? The answer is yes to them. Yeah. Dignity doesn't mean anything to them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What's dignity?

[James Petregallo]

Then said, shame on you. Shame on you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, you could have said worse.

[James Petregallo]

Can't sentence them to anything, but, you know, you can call him, you're a dick, Eleanor. After this is all over. They said could be seen smiling and laughing before and after the hearing and said, quote, we don't agree with this verdict. We don't think it was a fair trial. We really expect this will be overturned and we'll have a new trial. Jerry Springer Show. Here's a statement from them. They said in a statement, neither the show nor its producers were any in any way responsible. They said, quote, this murder transpired nearly three months after the taping of an episode and happened the day it aired. You fucking asshole. You can't ignore that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

After the taping, who gives a shit?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it aired. That's the point. And was pointed out during the criminal proceedings, many events occurred that were totally unrelated to the taping of the show. I think it definitely escalated shit, though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It certainly aggravated a volatile situation.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck yeah. Eleanor disagrees, though. Eleanor accuses the show of putting her husband and ex wife in the same hotel room for a night so that there would be a sexual interlude between them. Them. Eleanor said that the encounter fueled the Nancy's obsession with Ralph, is what she said. By the way, there's later on, there's an interview with Nancy's sister, or not Nancy's. I'm sorry, Eleanor sister. Where Eleanor is like, yeah, the show sent the two of them together and put him in the same room. What do you think's gonna happen? I mean, he is an adult, that one. Huh? So that means he has to stick it in her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I guess every room that you're in with a woman, J. James, you have to fuck them.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Fuck them if you're an adult.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know what to tell you.

[James Petregallo]

But the way she did, she was like, he is an adult. Like, yeah. What? That's wild. The defense lawyer is now sued. Who do you think sued him?

[Jimmy Wissman]

The prosecution? No. Did Ralph do it?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. A juror.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

A juror sued him. Have you ever heard of this before? Almost 600 episodes. Okay. Because during the trial. This is amazing here. During the trial. He'll have to return to Florida now for litigation stemming. He was served Friday with a slander lawsuit filed by one of the jurors. A juror named Owen Stacey called a juror named Owen Stacey, quote, a Nazi and a creep. You can't say that right after the verdict was announced outside the court. That's what he said. That guy on the jury, this one gave his name, said he's a Nazi and a creepy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, Then why the fuck didn't you strike him? Then you could have watched here beforehand. You could have had him gone. Questioned by the media about the Lawsuit. He professed to be unconcerned. He said, I would say the definition of mental illness is suing Jeff Feger. He used his name in the third person. I know it's easy to hate lawyers, but this guy is like the worst. He is a guy. I mean, he's like, come on, give me Lloyd. That's right. You know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

What do you call a. What do you call me? Drowning in the ocean, huh? What do you call it? Fucking bad lawyer jokes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he just tells Ramstein all day about himself.

[James Petregallo]

All day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He.

[James Petregallo]

Then the lawyer filed his own defamation suit against 12th Circuit Chief Judge Thomas Gallo.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The suit is in a response to a letter by Gallen published in the newspaper. In it, Gallen said Feger should be punished for calling the juror. Calling two different jurors names. Oh, yeah. So Gallon filed a complaint against figure with the Florida bar. And the officials of the bar have launched an inquiry. It's a mess. Then the children of Nancy file a lawsuit against the Jerry Springer Show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Program, you know, denies any responsibility. Jeffrey said the whole situation just erased the whole middle part of my life. I dealt with it for the last 20 years. Now here I am, 24 years later, still talking about. That's what he said in 2025 or 2024. He said it has been a pretty big impact. It's hard to trust people anymore. Sure. 2000. That was in 2002. They sue in 2003. They are going to drop the lawsuit. They dropped the lawsuit. It was for $25 million. They settled for nothing, basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, they got nothing out of it. Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Remember that big giant reward that the Jenny Jones jury gave out? Well, a Michigan appeals court threw out the $29.3 million verdict against the Jenny Jones show, saying the program had no legal duty to put. Protect a guest who was slain after appearing on the show. And the family lawyer for the Nancy's family said the Jones ruling was one of several issues that led us to get the matter resolved.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. They don't have any responsibility to protect them, but they do have a responsibility to.

[James Petregallo]

To not make it worse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To not exacerbate a fucking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah. Don't fucking make a situation worse that, you know, is already volatile.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not to step on somebody's stubbed toe, probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the way Jenny, like, interviewed that too. It was so gross.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was. It was weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What do you think? How are you feeling? You know what he's feeling?

[James Petregallo]

He's a bucket giggling and shit. Everybody giggling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Toxic.

[James Petregallo]

Douche yeah, man. So they dropped the suit. In a settlement agreement, the show's attorneys agreed not to countersue for malicious prosecution. They said, quote, it was a walk away, which means they walked away. Everybody walked away. That was that. That's. That's interesting, man. Very, very interesting. I guess Eleanor had responded to. This is the teaser she called. Remember, they be like, if you're experiencing this, this or this, call the Jerry Springer Show. Is there somebody who wants to disturb your relationship? Call Jerry.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's all they.

[James Petregallo]

That's. That was the question she responded to. Yep. That is fucked up. Jeffrey said, I don't think they've ever been held accountable for anything. People just watching the show and think, oh, this is normal. It's not. All right, then 2010, know the show Prison Wives.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Second episode of Prison Wives is all Eleanor is that she married him. Are they still. They're still together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No. Still fucking way.

[James Petregallo]

This is 2010. They were still together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Eleanor says that the squabble and the publicity it generated influenced the outcome of the trial. By the way, she says about. On this, she says, I wish that we had never gone on that show. Meaning Springer. I believe my husband is innocent and I will never give up on trying to get his sentence reduced.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now on the show, they show her. By the way, on this show, she is not doing well. Eleanor. She's living in a tiny shitty trailer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And the park is like. The trailers are like 3ft from each other. Like, it looks like a giant, like a storage place. Yeah. There's no, like driveways up to them. Half of them. It's. Maybe there are. I don't know. But it looks like a self storage place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she talks about how she can barely afford food. And like they show her making this really bleak fucking dinner.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

It's not good, dude. She is not doing well. They show her like talking to a friend of hers outside and she's like, you know, because this was 2010, so there was a bad recession at the time still from 2007. And they were like, the job market sucks. And she was doing. She worked as a sales rep for an online college. Telemarketing for college scammers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In other words, telemarketing for something probably.

[James Petregallo]

Barely accredited, if it is at all. A lot of those. That was 2010. That was the golden age of those schools before they all had to pay a billion dollars and fucking fines and shit. So she said that there was a risk that the company was closing down and she wasn't going to have her job anymore. And her friend's telling her to get out and look for a job, and she's just depressed. It says on the show she's in constant financial turmoil. But she says, Ralph says he's not guilty or. I'm sorry. Ralph says. They cut to Ralph in prison, and he says he's not guilty. And he says, I don't deserve this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's a victim.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. And then she says, quote, I love him dearly, and maybe someday I'll get to see him walk out of prison a free man. That would be the absolute happiest moment of my life. Okay, sure. Ralph says, my specific struggle is that I as. That I cannot be for my wife.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

I cannot be for my wife. He says, yeah. When she needs, what does it be for? There. I think the word there is missing. Be there for when she. What does that be for? To sting you silly. To make honey silly. When she needs me the most. Financially, this is the greatest struggle I have. You're in life without parole. Her financial.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I give she fuck about your financial situation. You're never getting out.

[James Petregallo]

But she supports him in there. She gives him money and all that. She says he doesn't have anyone else to give him money, so I have to support both of them. Us. As she does, apparently. Crazy Ralph says, I thought back. This is. They asked Ralph about Nancy in 2010. He says, I thought that back then that she was just wicked, wicked evil and trying to destroy what she can't have. She tried to destroy Eleanor. You killed this lady. And you're saying this. And they claim that they went out on the show. They only went on Springer because it's the only recourse they had because their life was. Was turned upside down by Nancy Stalking. That's what they're saying now. Ralph is in the Polk Correctional Facility. Yeah, Currently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I think he's been there the whole time. Eleanor and Ralph are still together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Still. He has been in jail for 25 fucking years. She's still with him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is she, an angel or is she an asshole? I can't tell.

[James Petregallo]

She is a glutton for punishment. A bit of a dummy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think perhaps she deserves this. Maybe this is just very fitting and awesome.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know what she did before. Maybe this is karma. So I don't know. But if you go to her Facebook profile, it's only pictures of the two of them in prison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

You know those prison pictures where you're allowed to take a picture of that block wall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Mural wall?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that block mural Wall with like a couple of like, paper palm trees taped to the wall on the sides of it. So it like makes a little fucking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very colorful flowers behind you.

[James Petregallo]

Makes like a red carpet. Fucking photo shoot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Frames both of you.

[James Petregallo]

It looks nice.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, my God. She lives in. Living in that little trailer while keeping up with Ralph. This is what they said in the prison wives thing. Simplicity and scarcity are now the norm for Ellie. She lives paycheck to paycheck, has very little social life and no children. She sits in a depressing little trailer waiting to go see this scumbag in prison every week. That's all she does. That's it. She still stands by Ralph, continues to support him financially, visits him every weekend. Wow. And she says he did not get a fair trial. Eleanor insists that law enforcement didn't look for any suspects. She believed they rushed to blame Ralph simply because they recognized him from the Jerry Springer Show. You know, just, he's super famous, that's all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, it's because he wears Skechers. And that's what was on her face.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. And her blood was also on his shoes and her fingernail DNA. The reality in Eleanor's eyes is that they pinned the crime on him. Without fully investigating the possibilities, her support for him hasn't wavered. She remains convinced that Ralph deserves a chance to be repatriated to Germany, hoping that a transfer there might lead to a lesser sentence. But he's not going anywhere. He's been there 25 years and he's gonna continue to be there, I think. There you go. That is Sarasota, Florida, and the Jerry Springer show and one twisted, fucked up ass story. I'll tell you what. So shitty, such a shitty story. If you like that show and shitty stories in general, please, please get on whatever app you're on and please give us five stars. Whatever you're listening on, it helps so fucking much. Drive us. Drive us up the charts. Takes like 30 seconds to do and it helps the show immensely. So, you know, be a mensch and do that, would you? All right, do that. Also. Shut up and give me murder.com you get your tickets for live shows if you're listening to this on the early release and it's within the two week window of April 19th. After that, you can still get the virtual live show. Costumes, bongs, Sasquatch, crazy story. You can't miss it. It's all there. Story has it all, people. So check that out. And also get your tickets for regular live shows, especially Chicago at the Riviera May 17. We can't wait. St. Louis is sold out the night before. So you guys get in there and get your tickets and sell this bad boy out for us if you would. And get tickets for the rest of the year too, because a lot of those shows are selling out. Like Portland in November, sold out. Big theater, sold out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Get your tickets. Grand Rapids, San Diego, all these. So please get your tickets now. Shut up and give me murder.com follow on social media. Smalltown murder on Instagram at Smalltown pot on Facebook patreon.com crimeinsports P A T R E O N.com crimeinsports you get all the bonus material you could possibly want there. All you gotta be is $5 a month or above and you're gonna get a back catalog that would choke an elephant. Hundreds. Hundreds. It'll. It'll. It'll crush a woman's head like a German's fool. What? Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before load under a sketcher, like a German sketcher. So yeah, you get all that back catalog. You get new ones every other week after that. And so binge on those, then get new ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder. You get it all. This week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about college coach sex scandals. They are a horny boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Plentiful.

[James Petregallo]

Aplenty. Horny aplenty for their students, for other people and just norm faculty. They're all married, they're all cheating. It's crazy. We'll talk about that. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about some death row last meals. And not the real famous ones. We went over those about five, six years ago on Patreon, if you go back through the archives. But some more kind of under the radar ones just because it's interesting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It is.

[James Petregallo]

It doesn't have to be a serial killer. I just want to know what Joe Schmo ate for his last meal. It was psychologically fascinating to me. So. So I can't wait to see that. That'll be fun. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out right fucking now. Jimmy, please hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who never ever wear Skechers while they murder. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This week's executive producers are. Martin Marufo, Katherine Domarod, Catherine. It's her birthday and she's 70 and she loves us. Thank you, Katherine, for being a part of us.

[James Petregallo]

We love you back Kathryn, thank you so much.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anne Marie Fitzgerald, Judy Anderson, Brittany Robertson and Gary Howard. Thank you all so much for doing this with us.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you, guys.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's great to have you. Other producers this week, Ryan Dempsey, Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Melissa Warburton, Alexander Whalen, Janice Hill. Happy Hour. Checking in. In Raymer, Colorado. Stephanie H. Ryan Stasiak. Jake with no last name. Anna Kinsella. Sarah Fowler. Taylor Reed, David Schaefer. Deanna Dina. Maybe Fleming. Brie Mack. Stephanie with no last name. David Lista. Kate K. And 8. Lisa with no last name. Robin with no last name. Bob Higer. Catherine with no last name. Christy Ingram. Dynamo. Prince Fadre. Morph. Easter. Easter Wester. Okay. Easton Weston. Is that right? Is that a real name? No way.

[James Petregallo]

I don't even know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Maybe Renee with no last name. Martina. Renee. Also Marcus Van Z. Bonnie Rendall. Gypsy Pliss. Plea. Maybe Joel Shurney. To Shurney. Mickey Kirstein. Kirstein. Rachel Fields. Molly Ott. Victoria Mullen. Allison Cialis. What? No way. Elira. Oh, Lyra.

[James Petregallo]

She gets you going, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You gotta grow. Allison. Go get after it. Christy Jameson. Steph C. Abby Thompson. Liliana Pierce. Heather Salcedo. Daisy Dowd. Maybe Doe. Christian Senior. Miranda Connors. Beef Supreme. Gross. Kind of. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe. Is it gross?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Christina Brown.

[James Petregallo]

Beef Burrito.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's. That's. That's decent. That's.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Otherwise, sour cream in that bad boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Carl Lyon. Takara. Takara, right. Probably. Kayla Marquardt. Karen Smith. Nicole Wolf. Kelsey with no last name. John Parkin. Karpinski. Parkinson. Hampton. Coney. It's Karpinski. I'm Mancioni. I like that guy. Sheila, what is this coin? Corey Pregler. W. Prow. Pru Prow. Willow Shotmer. Leanne Barry. Brian Rector.

[James Petregallo]

Barely.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Joe Siret. Melissa. Joe Corinne with no last name. Trevor. Geese. Geist, perhaps. Sherry Steed. Kindwall. Kindwall, maybe. Rebecca Haymond. Ashley Griffin. Diane with no last name. Deborah Ware. Were. Were. Carrie Black, Michelle with no last name. Anna Bush. Shayna Rhaenys. J. The Letter J. Hugh Janus James. He's a big fan. He was a wonderful guy. Truly. His first name? 100% a real name.

[James Petregallo]

But he likes everything. You throw anything at him, it sticks. You know what I mean? What do you want?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he's got a big appetite. Angela Marath. Norija Joshi. Neeraj. Neeraj Joshi. Joshi.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sali Nimogata.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't. I'm terrible at this. I'm the least. The least cultured person on the. Samantha Bradshaw. Cupcake. Kitten Explosion. I can do that. Melissa with no last name. Leslie Babcock. Banshee. Baruchi. Baruchi Alexander with no last name. Cookie Davis. Michelle McGarrigal. McGargle. Julia Paltridge. Partridge with an L. Annette Chrisman. Chrisman. Okay. There was a guy in high school that I went to school with. James. His name was Jimmy Christman. And I was Jimmy Whisman. And it was the most annoying thing on the planet. I hate. But he lived real crazy. So he would like do crazy. And they're like. Like, I heard about this. You did? I was like, what? I was like, how would you know that?

[James Petregallo]

What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Then I just owned it after a little while.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Just started.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just take his stories.

[James Petregallo]

Living his life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Him.

[James Petregallo]

I'm living his life. Why not More interesting than mine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

David W. Janelle Steckles. Stecklestiwa. Stecklestiwa. Shacklestiwa.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shackle. Stua. I don't know. That's all. R.J. king. Chris Sugden. Sugden. Angie Urbanya. Jason Bradley. Brooke Mortensen. Kimmy with no last name. Kelly with no last name. Jessica Patterson. Vanessa Fayo. Sean Hone. Maybe Caleb Simway. Simwali. Natasha with a J. What the fuck? Natasha Varney with the J. You figure out where it is. Michelle Holloway. Lauren. Davey. Davi. Perhaps Ginger with no last name. Grant Baker. Daniel Gibson. Fish. Twinkies. Gross. Bri own. Oni1aMackenzie Ramadaka. Haram. Her Modka. Raymond Ryan. I gotta sound it out like a moron. Karen Mandeville. Chelsea Staton. G, O O. Glacinto Calabasista.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bridget with no last name. Nick Spaghetti Arms. Camera. And Carol.

[James Petregallo]

Medical procedure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Natalie McHenry. Kim Hill. Katie Robinson. Mark W. Kyle Roeder. Rosa. Mowbray. Mowbray. Emily. Touch it. Touche. It's touch it. That is touch it any way you shake it. Donna Taylor perhaps Emily. Touch it. Chris Recano. Cage. Shulem. James Morgan. Aloysius B. Greg. Jennifer Brandt. Rogue with no last name. Mommy of twins. Rodney Comer. Madison. Anna. Chacheria. Kariko.

[James Petregallo]

Fell apart.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hannah Camp. Caleb with no last name. Amy with no last name. Nina. Patricia Patrickian. Ryan K. Alyssa Brown K. Smith. Megan Brenna. Ellen Newman. Devin with no last name. Jamie. Justice. Laina with no Lana. Lana with no last name. Dan with no last name. Jamie or Jaime. Augusto. Emma Carvin. Calvin. Joe Crystal. Casey. Cassie Perhaps Coats. Angela. Peel pile. Gross. Let's. We'll go appeal. Mo. Capicola rides again.

[James Petregallo]

Capicola.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Don Thorpe. Lance Brooks. Home Ward, Carla Baker, Brenda Davy. Chris with no last name. Maya Hicks, Sarah Hager, Chris Devlin, Michael Cockleman. Oh, boy. Brandy Collins, Beatrice Anderson. Alyssa R. Kate Nash. Charity with no last name. Molly with no last name Zach Krueger, Kiki with no last name Taylor Brady, Jamie Lund, Sammy Grange, Joseph Richie. Amy. Amy, Amy what? Docket. Monica Cocky. Go Chi perhaps Trevor with no last name. Greg Bates, Allison Mendez, Melendez. Jerry Jones got two of these. So he's we're rolling. Dallas Cowboys money.

[James Petregallo]

Well, I was going to say when you're wildcatting around and buying football teams.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He probably signed up and then didn't realize he got one and then got another probably.

[James Petregallo]

Well, thank you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're a good man now, Jerry.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, now we like you didn't like it before but now Betsy with no.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Last name Haley Gregory, Mark Moore, Nathan Swenson, Jesse Plotkin, Lynn Cap, Jim McCoy, Jacqueline Michael Michelle perhaps Robbie Arnold, Tracy Stillwell, Julie H. Brandon, Alex, Mary Laboon, Morocco. Stephanie Hale, perhaps Haley Tonnette Brown, Brittany Bach, Tyrell Battle, Zachary Gibson, Katie with no last name and every patron the patrons this show. Thank you so much.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

We can't, we can't thank you enough. Honestly. We tried. I don't even know what words to use. Thank you for all that you do for us.

[Jimmy Wissman]

100 million is a crazy number.

[James Petregallo]

And yeah, that's not money, that's listen streaming, you guys.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, just from Spotify. You guys listen to this so much and we can't thank you enough for changing our lives and making this viable and fun and we're gonna keep going. Let's go, James. Let's keep going.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do it. Let's keep going. But until then and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bye. Foreign.

[James Petregallo]

If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey Lamont Jones is shattered when his cousin dies just weeks after entering prison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The official report says natural causes, but.

[James Petregallo]

Bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. Wondery presents Death county pa. A chilling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

True story of corruption and cover ups.

[James Petregallo]

Follow Death County PA on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.