#598 - Cookies Solve Murders - Stowe, Vermont

Summary

Small Town Murder: Episode #598 - Cookies Solve Murders - Stowe, Vermont

Release Date: May 23, 2025
Hosts: James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman
Description: Two comedians delve into the intricacies of small-town life, uncovering the dynamics that make these communities tick, and exploring a murder that shook them. Combining in-depth research with comedic insights, the hosts dissect tragic events with their unique spin.

---

1. Introduction to Stowe, Vermont

The episode opens with the hosts introducing Stowe, Vermont—a picturesque small town known as the "Ski Capital of the East." They paint a vivid picture of the town's serene landscape, bustling ski resorts, and tight-knit community.

James Pietragallo [05:49]:
"We're going to Vermont this week. A nice place with mountains and rolling hills."

Jimmie Whisman [06:03]:
"Stowe is a famous ski area. Rich people from NYC or Boston go there for the weekend skiing."

---

2. Overview of Patricia Ann Scoville’s Life

Patricia Ann Scoville, known as Patty, is introduced as a bright, independent woman with a promising future. Her background includes a Cornell University education, exchange programs in Denmark, and a career in human resources.

Jimmie Whisman [14:26]:
"She graduated in '86 from Cornell University and traveled to Denmark twice."

James Pietragallo [15:04]:
"Patty is very independent, fun, and straight-laced. She enjoys hiking, biking, and playing the piano."

---

3. Patty’s Move to Stowe and the Events Leading to Her Disappearance

In October 1991, Patty moves to Stowe to escape the corporate life in Boston and embrace a more outdoors-oriented lifestyle. Shortly after settling in, she attends the annual Stowe Rescue Squad benefit barn dance, marking a turning point where she begins to integrate into the community.

James Pietragallo [20:31]:
"Patty decided to attend the barn dance on her own and had a great time, even meeting a guy."

However, within two days of her newfound social engagement, Patty goes missing after a bike ride to Moss Glen Falls—a scenic location she frequented.

Jimmie Whisman [23:31]:
"She biked to Moss Glen Falls, sat on a rock, took off her gloves, and was seen looking at the falls. No one saw her after that."

---

4. Investigation and Discovery of Evidence

The local community springs into action, deploying search teams and utilizing all available resources to locate Patty. Despite extensive efforts, including the use of police dogs, divers, and aerial searches, Patty remains missing until October 29th, five days after her disappearance.

Leon Nayfak [28:33]:
"They searched a three-mile area with everything possible but couldn't find her until days later."

Upon discovery, evidence suggests foul play:

• Autopsy Findings:

  • James Pietragallo [34:07]:
    "Patty died of asphyxia caused by manual strangulation."
  • Presence of theobromine indicated chocolate consumption before death, pinpointing the time of murder before 4 PM.

• Physical Evidence:

  • Jimmie Whisman [28:15]:
    "A bicycle, black gloves, and a yellow water bottle were found near the falls."

---

5. Suspect Identification and DNA Evidence

The investigation initially targets Ronald Gabaree due to his criminal history and proximity to the crime scene. However, DNA testing reveals that his profile does not match the semen samples found on Patty, leading to a dead end.

James Pietragallo [35:48]:
"His DNA doesn't match. So they ruled him out."

As the case grows cold, rumors and fear spread through Stowe, with residents becoming increasingly anxious about their safety.

---

6. Breakthrough with DNA Database and Arrest

In 2005, a significant breakthrough occurs when Howard Godfrey, known as Skip, who had a history of violent behavior, enters the federal DNA database upon his release from prison. His DNA matches the semen found at the crime scene.

Jimmie Whisman [63:56]:
"The DNA match was 1 in 235 quadrillion, leading to Skip’s arrest."

Despite initial resistance and Skip's pleas of innocence, the overwhelming DNA evidence leads to his conviction.

James Pietragallo [73:26]:
"The jury found him guilty of aggravated murder after only two hours of deliberation."

---

7. Court Proceedings and Aftermath

During the sentencing, Patty’s father confronts Skip with the devastating impact of his actions.

Patty’s Father [73:35]:
"Why could someone do this to my little girl?"

Despite attempts by Skip's defense to discredit the DNA evidence and introduce alternative theories, the conviction stands firm due to the strength of the forensic evidence.

Leon Nayfak [75:01]:
"It's not circumstantial. The DNA evidence is solid."

---

8. Reflection and Community Impact

The podcast concludes by reflecting on the long-term impact of the case on the Stowe community. The establishment of the Patricia Scoville Memorial CODIS Laboratory symbolizes the town's commitment to justice and the lasting memory of Patty.

James Pietragallo [74:07]:
"The CODIS lab was renamed in Patty's honor, a tribute to her and a step towards solving her case."

---

Notable Quotes:

• James Pietragallo [05:49]:
  "We're going to Vermont this week. A nice place with mountains and rolling hills."

• Jimmie Whisman [14:26]:
  "She graduated in '86 from Cornell University and traveled to Denmark twice."

• James Pietragallo [34:07]:
  "Patty died of asphyxia caused by manual strangulation."

• Jimmie Whisman [35:48]:
  "His DNA doesn't match. So they ruled him out."

• Patty’s Father [73:35]:
  "Why could someone do this to my little girl?"

• Leon Nayfak [75:01]:
  "It's not circumstantial. The DNA evidence is solid."

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Small Town Murder, James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman explore the tragic murder of Patricia Ann Scoville in Stowe, Vermont. Through meticulous research and engaging storytelling, they illuminate how relentless investigation and advancements in DNA technology ultimately brought justice to a once-peaceful community. The narrative underscores the profound impact of crime on small towns and the enduring quest for closure by families and law enforcement alike.

For more detailed insights and future episodes, listeners are encouraged to follow the hosts on social media and support them through their Patreon platform.

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Support and Further Engagement

• Merchandise & Live Shows: shutupandgivemerder.com
• Patreon: patreon.com/CrimeInSports
• Social Media:
  • Instagram: Small Town Murder
  • Facebook: Small Town Pod

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This summary captures the essence of Episode #598, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the key events, investigative breakthroughs, and the community's response to the tragic loss of Patricia Scoville.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Leon Nayfak]

It's so fun to watch them actually thrive.

[James Petregallo]

I love it. And I'm telling you, we have hired people to do stuff and I've complained about it on the show before, how expensive these people are. They turn you upside down and shake you, these tree people and landscapers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is a great way to do.

[James Petregallo]

It and save so much money. So much money. It is awesome.

[Leon Nayfak]

Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

This spring they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals.

[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Use Small Town Murder to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions apply.

[Leon Nayfak]

Now back to the show.

[Sherri Papini]

Hey listeners, it's Leon Nayfak. I'm here to tell you about a brand new series from me and prologue projects an Audible original series called Final Jerry Springer, the story of a television show that changed the world and the man who gave it his name. But did you know that before the Jerry Springer show made him notorious all over the world, Springer was something else entirely. A respected Midwestern politician, the progressive mayor of a major rust belt city, a man many saw as a future leader in Democratic politics. How did this idealistic rising star with his lofty political ambitions take a turn in such a radically different direction? You can find the whole series available now on Audible. Just search for final thoughts Jerry Springer on the Audible app or go to audible.com Springer Sherri Papini went missing in 2016.

[Howard Godfrey]

The story that the world thinks they know is that I am a master manipulator.

[James Petregallo]

She is California's real life gone girl.

[Howard Godfrey]

Well, it's not me. This was a hoax.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you're only talking now because you got caught. And could this person be playing you? This is just a lie.

[Howard Godfrey]

Now I get to tell the truth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sherry Papini, Caught in The Lie, an ID documentary event. Monday at 9. Hello, everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Leon Nayfak]

Choo choo.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.

[James Petregallo]

My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Leon Nayfak]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Welcome to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much for joining us. And all aboard the murder train as usual, pulling away from the station. We got, as usual, a crazy, crazy case for you today with a really, really bad person and a really nice person and some real weird stuff. So we'll get into all of that. And cookies are going to solve the crime today or help to solve the crime.

[Leon Nayfak]

Really?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cookies?

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How cool is that?

[James Petregallo]

We will get to that. Before we do, though, head over to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shut upandgivemerder.com get all your merchandise and get your tickets for live shows.

[James Petregallo]

You're going to be looking at shows in September and beyond. A lot of those are getting sold out. Like Seattle is close to selling out. Portland the night before is already sold out. Get your tickets to D.C. and Philly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In December because they're almost gone.

[James Petregallo]

So get in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thank you so much, by the way, everybody.

[James Petregallo]

We cannot wait to see you guys out there. That is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shut up and give me murder dot com.

[James Petregallo]

Also check out what we got going on on Patreon because that is good stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Patreon.com crimeinsports what you do here is.

[James Petregallo]

Anybody $5 a month or above, you get everything. First of all, hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before to binge on right away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's like a whole other stream of a show. It's great.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you're gonna love it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder.

[James Petregallo]

And you get them all, baby.

[Leon Nayfak]

Every one of them.

[James Petregallo]

This week, what you're gonna get for.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crime and sports, we're gonna talk about some of the worst soccer riots that have ever happened.

[James Petregallo]

They get crazy over there for soccer. I mean, we don't riot over soccer. That's. Yeah, we don't. We don't.

[Leon Nayfak]

We write when our team wins.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we not soccer team. We barely know what happened if they won.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then for small town murder, we are gonna go over from the regular.

[James Petregallo]

Episode this week, the Joseph Duncan iii.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We are gonna go over his blog.

[James Petregallo]

It's a murderer's prison blog. And his thoughts are insane. And you wanna hear this crap because we'll laugh at him and make fun of him the whole time. Don't you worry about that. So that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shut up and give me more.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, no, that's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sorry.

[James Petregallo]

Patreon.com CrimeInSports and you get a shout out at the end of the show, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jimmy will mess your name all up for you.

[James Petregallo]

So don't worry about that. That said, I think it's time, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let'S all sit back here. Let's clear the lungs.

[James Petregallo]

There we go. And arms to the sky.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're going to Vermont this week.

[Leon Nayfak]

It's a nice place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Vermont?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Some rural ness up there. Mountains and rolling hills and things. This is north central Vermont. It's Stowe, Vermont.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Have you ever heard of Stowe?

[Leon Nayfak]

I have not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stowe is kind of in the Northeast.

[James Petregallo]

It's a famous ski area. Like, you'll hear rich people going like, well, we're going to Stowe for the weekend. Like, that's like, yeah, they're going up there to ski for a while. Like, rich people from New York City or Boston say that we're going to Stowe this weekend. So it's one of those.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's about 2 hours and 15 minutes to Montreal.

[James Petregallo]

That's the closest major city.

[Jimmy Wissman]

About 3 hours and 15 minutes to Boston.

[James Petregallo]

And then about 2 hours and 15 minutes to Newfane, Vermont.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Our last Vermont episode, episode 546, Stairway to Heaven.

[James Petregallo]

It was the one with the crazy house party where the person used a ski pole as a murder weapon. That's very Vermont. Using ski equipment to murder people. That was a wild one. This is in Lamore Lemonade. I don't know if it's in French or what.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Lemuel Lemoy County. L A M O I L L E. Limois.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. I'm sure it's Lamoille here. Maybe, but. Area code 802.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Population here, 5156.

[James Petregallo]

So not a lot of people here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Median household income in this town, $74,065, which is right around the national average. Median home price, though.

[James Petregallo]

Hang on.

[Leon Nayfak]

Buckle up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hang on to your skis, everybody. $758,400 median. Wow.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah. That's Vermont.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It has a nickname and a motto. The nickname is the ski capital of the East.

[James Petregallo]

And the motto is, I don't even.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Know what this Is small town, kids.

[James Petregallo]

That's the motto.

[Leon Nayfak]

Don't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're going to attract pedophiles.

[James Petregallo]

People. Don't put that up there. Don't put that on your side.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A little bit of history here.

[James Petregallo]

We'll go way back in history. How about during the Ice age?

[Jimmy Wissman]

This area was buried in a mile.

[James Petregallo]

Deep of ice during the Ice Age.

[Leon Nayfak]

A mile.

[James Petregallo]

A mile of ice, yes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

As the ice melted, Lake Stowe was formed from that. When the ice melted completely, the water from the lake ran through the Le.

[James Petregallo]

Moi river valley from there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Stowe was chartered back in 1763. This is pre revolution by royal governor.

[James Petregallo]

Benning Wentworth of the province of New Hampshire.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Vermont became a US state in 1791. So it's one of the first.

[James Petregallo]

It's been there. Two years later, people started arriving in Stowe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And by the turn of the century.

[James Petregallo]

Into the 1800s, their property had been.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sold and the population boomed and exploded to 316.

[James Petregallo]

Bangin' bumping, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

So the early years in Stowe were all about farming and lumber. Yeah, that's what it was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Most of the land in Vermont was.

[James Petregallo]

For farming and lumber.

[Leon Nayfak]

1700S, New England. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Sheep farming was big here.

[Leon Nayfak]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It became though, a well known summer resort.

[James Petregallo]

By the mid-1800s, due to the mountain scenery, people started coming here, rivers and such. Yep.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They built the. The summit house atop Mount Mansfield was constructed before the civil war broke out.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, the. The big hotel, they called it, that they had burned down in 1889 and then skiing became the main attraction in about the 1930s and now it stays that way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here's some reviews of the town because.

[James Petregallo]

I've never been there, so let's check it out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here it is. Five stars. Stowe is an amazing town that I spent most of my summers in. The people who live there are all very friendly and there is beautiful nature.

[James Petregallo]

And outdoor activities to explore. Okay, here's four stars.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I love the town of Stowe, but I feel there aren't enough resources for locals.

[James Petregallo]

And we get this all the time with these tourist places.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I know that the town primarily functions off of tourism, but the prices are so high that the locals can't connect with each other in social settings.

[James Petregallo]

We hear this a lot, all the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

People that work at all these resorts.

[James Petregallo]

And stuff, they have like one little bar to hang out at that has like cheap draft beers and like there's nowhere else really for them to go. It's all fancy.

[Leon Nayfak]

Tourists end up finding that shit and running us out of there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So here's three stars. While I can see how families would enjoy living here, as a young adult.

[James Petregallo]

It'S pretty boring if you don't do many athletic activities. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you don't like to hike and bike and fish and kayak and all.

[James Petregallo]

That shit, you're going to be bored stiff here. And that's what it's here for. So it would be like if you lived in Manhattan and you loved skiing and kayaking and fishing and all that. You'd be real bored there, you know, it's in your apartment.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So things to do here.

[James Petregallo]

Well, first of all, skiing, kayaking, fishing, all the outdoorsy shit. Do that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Then they have the Vermont Maple Festival.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, we'd expect that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The events, though, are interesting.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not a huge maple guy. You know what I mean? Like, no. Like, syrup's fine on a waffle or something like that, but I don't want maple flavoring on anything else. Yeah, I'm not into that. I'm not a maple guy. I just don't like the taste.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So.

[James Petregallo]

Like the donuts with the maple flavor. I don't like that shit. Yeah, even.

[Leon Nayfak]

Even on bacon and sausage. I don't want it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nope, don't eat it.

[James Petregallo]

Bacon doesn't need any assistance. It's fine. It's pure fat. What more do you need?

[Leon Nayfak]

Great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now you need sugar, too, on this.

[James Petregallo]

The fuck is wrong with you?

[Leon Nayfak]

It's doing fantastic. Smoke it and leave it alone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus. So they have a best maple menu contest.

[James Petregallo]

Put together a whole maple menu.

[Leon Nayfak]

Just the menu.

[James Petregallo]

You just make it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But they do have a maple cooking.

[James Petregallo]

Contest, a maple beverage tasting. No, gross. A maple banquet, a maple parade.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A maple ambassador contest.

[Leon Nayfak]

Man, oh, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

To see who will be the Maple Ambassador. A youth talent show. Lovely. And then there's a Teen Fest mixed in there, too. Try to.

[James Petregallo]

Gotta get teens in here. Small town kids in the Teen Fest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They have Axe throwing, basketball, baseball, two.

[James Petregallo]

Lane obstacle course, airframe game. I don't know what the fuck that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Airframe game. Whack a wall.

[James Petregallo]

Is that like Mac Whack a mole on a wall. Connect for soccer and knock them down. Okay. And then there's bands, of course, too. Yeah, obviously. We have Kevin Herchin.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He'll be there. We have conniption fits.

[Leon Nayfak]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

They think they play like 90s music or something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

April Cushman.

[James Petregallo]

You can see a cowboy hat on her head. And I did. I saw the picture. Viva Las Elvis with Dan Fontaine and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Memphis Sun Mafia Band.

[James Petregallo]

It is an Elvis.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Memphis Sun Mafia Band.

[James Petregallo]

It's an Elvis tribute band, in case you were wondering. They had to put that on there. It's so funny. Maddie ryan and the 2025 talent show winners. I guess whoever won the talent show will perform.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the Fiddlers Variety Show.

[James Petregallo]

Just a bunch of people fiddling.

[Leon Nayfak]

This is maple. It's maple. And then it gets worse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's maple. And bad music.

[James Petregallo]

So here we go. That said, let's talk about some murder here now that we've set the table with the town.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, let's talk about a young lady. Here we go.

[Leon Nayfak]

We may as well.

[James Petregallo]

Patricia Ann Scoville.

[Jimmy Wissman]

S C O V I L L.

[James Petregallo]

E and she goes by Patty. Patricia goes by Patty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's born June 3, 1963.

[James Petregallo]

She is the daughter of David and Ann Scoville of. Oh, how the hell do you say that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cannon, Canandaiga, New York.

[James Petregallo]

I think where she's from upstate somewhere. She grew up there in a nice household. Um, she's the oldest of three children and she is an achiever, this one, man. Oh yeah, she's real fastidious. She's like, she takes notes and journals and like things like that. And in school she's a very big achiever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She graduated in 86 from Cornell University.

[James Petregallo]

Dang, not bad. She traveled to Denmark twice, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Once between high school and college as an, as an exchange student and later.

[James Petregallo]

On college she'll spend a semester in Copenhagen.

[Leon Nayfak]

Great.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, she's like cultured and smart and went to a good college and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, she's doing great. Her friend Amy from that she knew her whole life growing up, said she was voted most intelligent in our high school class.

[James Petregallo]

So that means she's probably pretty popular too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She was called by her friend. She said that Patti is very independent.

[James Petregallo]

And, and all of this type of thing. She said she's really fun, but she's really pretty. Straight laced also though. So she's fun but straight laced. Like she likes to like sing karaoke and play the piano and hiking and biking and stuff like that. She's not, not into drugs or boozing up or any of that stuff. So I guess they had went, this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Girl had saw her, this woman had seen patty at their 10 year high.

[James Petregallo]

School reunion and they had talked and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This woman was living in Vermont at.

[James Petregallo]

The time and Patty was living in Boston and she said Vermont sounded nice and she wanted to make a change. And we'll talk about this. So this girl says, I remember woman, sorry. Says I remember her dancing a lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Saying that Patty's very musically inclined and played the piano for years and years and years.

[James Petregallo]

And her parents, David and Ann Scoville, were very happy that she graduated from Cornell. Obviously that's a. You know, you're thrilled with that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Patty was a Rotary exchange student in Denmark during the year following high school graduation.

[James Petregallo]

And like I said, she spent a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Semester of her junior year at the.

[James Petregallo]

University of Copenhagen as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She majored in Human Development and Family.

[James Petregallo]

Studies in the College of Human Ecology.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And she lived in Boston.

[James Petregallo]

And she ends up working in human.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Resources for Bay State Federal Savings bank for about four years.

[James Petregallo]

And then she worked at the Reese Corporation for one year. And then she said, I gotta get the hell outta here.

[Leon Nayfak]

Done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She wasn't into the city, she wasn't into the corporate. Like, she had an idea in her.

[James Petregallo]

Head going to college that she wanted to be, you know, whatever, but then when she gets in the corporate race and all that shit, she's like, why am I doing this? I don't really like this.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, that is such a hard game to play.

[James Petregallo]

That's tough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And. And she's like, smart and has a.

[James Petregallo]

Good degree and things like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she kind of probably has confidence.

[James Petregallo]

That I could pretty much go wherever, I'll get a job, I'll be fine. So she says, and I think after.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Talking to her friend who lived in Vermont, she said, I'm going to move to Vermont.

[Leon Nayfak]

Great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She likes to. She wanted to spend the summer biking and hiking, and then she wanted to spend the winter skiing.

[James Petregallo]

She said, I want to be a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ski bum in Verm. That sounds.

[James Petregallo]

Do that all the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she does. She. By the way, she also worked with mentally challenged people and was an advocate for women's rights and the environment.

[Leon Nayfak]

She's an angel.

[James Petregallo]

She's doing a lot of cool stuff. So she's doing all this shit around. In September of 91, she starts looking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In Vermont and she arrives in Vermont to move there.

[James Petregallo]

October 1, 1991, she arrives in Stowe and she has a roommate named Annette Dickinson Shue. And Annette had put an ad in the newspaper for a roommate, and Patty answered it. So there you go. These young ladies are going to hook up here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now.

[James Petregallo]

It's funny because she said out of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Everyone in town, she probably knew Patty better than anybody else.

[James Petregallo]

But she said, we really didn't know each other at all. She said, well, yeah, she said, we show. You know, she.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We shared an apartment.

[James Petregallo]

But she said that, you know, she said that she had placed an ad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In the paper looking for a roommate. Patty called her from Boston, saying she'd.

[James Petregallo]

Be up in a week to look at the apartment. And this young lady described Patty as pleasant and quiet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She called her a small 28 year old woman and described her as short and tiny boned. Quote, so vulnerable. Short and tiny boned.

[James Petregallo]

I was ready to knock her out and drag her behind a dumpster.

[Leon Nayfak]

I've never met anybody describe them as vulnerable.

[James Petregallo]

They seem vulnerable to me. That's weird. I mean, I don't know if women scope each other out and go, oh, she could be taken, or I don't know how they.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She looks vulnerable. She said the first week and a half, Patty lived in Stowe. She said that she was so quiet, she kept in her room with the door closed. She said that she didn't know anybody.

[James Petregallo]

Locally, so she just stayed in a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Room and sat there.

[James Petregallo]

So her, her roommate told her. You know, she said it was kind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of out of the blue and all.

[James Petregallo]

That kind of thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

By the way, Patty also goes to adult children of alcoholics meeting.

[James Petregallo]

I think that's Al Anon, I believe that is called. She goes to that as well.

[Leon Nayfak]

Alan is just Alcoholics Anonymous, isn't it?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, it's not. No, it's a. It's. It's a different thing here. Yeah, they have adult children of alcoholics and they have.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, that's wild.

[James Petregallo]

They have alotene, which is teen children of alcoholics. They have that shit too. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she goes to those meetings too.

[James Petregallo]

And I don't know when her parents were drinking or when they weren't or. I'm not sure how that happened, but apparently somebody was drinking at some point. But the thing is that Patty, even.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Though she comes from a good family.

[James Petregallo]

That'S not falling apart from booze or anything like that. They're a really good family. She still sees that she could probably use some counseling in a certain area that's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let's keep it on top of shit that's responsible. So about halfway through her second week.

[James Petregallo]

In Stowe, Patty and her roommate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Her roommate said that Patty started to.

[James Petregallo]

Finally come out of her shell and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She decided that she would attend the annual Stowe rescue squad benefit barn dance.

[James Petregallo]

Benefit.

[Leon Nayfak]

Barn dance. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

It's a barn dance to benefit the Stowe rescue squad. So talk about a change of scenery.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She went from corporate Boston to going.

[James Petregallo]

To a fucking barn dance in a matter of two weeks. That's a. There's no barn dances in Boston. They just don't occur very often.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The roommate declined Patty's invitation to Go out that night.

[James Petregallo]

But Patty decided to attend the dance on her own.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And when she came back, her roommate said that Patty came back kind of.

[James Petregallo]

Late from the dance and said she.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Had a great time and even met a guy.

[Leon Nayfak]

How about it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

She loved it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She's like, I had a great time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The next morning, she said Patty was very happy. And she said for the first time.

[James Petregallo]

It seemed like she was having a good time being here, you know, being in Stowe in Vermont, because it's one of those things. I think for a minute she was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like, oh, did I fuck up moving here?

[Leon Nayfak]

Some fish out of water.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shit, I'm lonely, I'm bored.

[James Petregallo]

I don't have anything to do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's also gonna move out of this.

[James Petregallo]

Apartment that she just moved into.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The roommate said, quote, she said her cat wasn't happy here.

[James Petregallo]

So I don't know how the cat communicated that to her. Yeah, but somehow the cat communicated that it was. It's. It's displeasure.

[Leon Nayfak]

Living arrangements, sometimes they'll tell you how much they hate a place just by shitting next to the litter box.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's weird. So the roommate said she was kind of shy. She talked to her cat more than.

[James Petregallo]

She talked to me. I like Patty. I really like Patty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She talked to her cat.

[James Petregallo]

They both shit in a box, which was weird. No, that didn't work.

[Leon Nayfak]

They both pooped in my shoes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, I like Patty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She seems cool as shit.

[James Petregallo]

So. October 21st, 1991. Okay. Now she was a. Patty was gone the previous evening going.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She went to her new place that.

[James Petregallo]

She'S going to move into.

[Leon Nayfak]

Got it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she has. The cat stays there now. I guess it likes it better. Cat's much happier there. So she had gone out and we'll figure out where she went last night and everything, but she returned home to her apartment that morning and was baking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chocolate chip cookies and eating them.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, like baking a whole batch and eating all. She baked. Like, awesome.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sitting around, having.

[James Petregallo]

That's a great day, man. Just fresh cookies. You're down in them. Oh, man.

[Leon Nayfak]

You have the health to handle them. Good for you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fucking A. Yeah, well, she's. She's. She's so thin and bony.

[James Petregallo]

She needs to put on, you know, get less vulnerable.

[Leon Nayfak]

She's got to eat herself into less vulnerability.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she's in a great mood.

[James Petregallo]

Her roommate described her as giddy that morning just eating cookies and she was like, laughing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said she was really happy and.

[James Petregallo]

Giddy and laughing because she couldn't stop. Stop eating cookies just Kept eating more and more and was like, this is crazy. So then she was gonna go on a bike ride and whatever. That was her plan. After she got done eating cookies, chocolate chip cookies, she was getting ready to go on a nice bike ride.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she hops on her green Fuji 10 speed bicycle.

[James Petregallo]

Nice bike, Nice bike. And she's had it since she was a kid too, by the way.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

This is her, like, childhood bike. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And she heads towards Stowe Village. After that, she biked over to the Chittenden bank on Mountain Road where she cashed a check for $56.25 and she.

[James Petregallo]

Deposited $538 in there. The bank teller that handled the transaction said she remembered seeing Patty bike away at about 1:40pm from the bank.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She biked down the road down Route.

[James Petregallo]

100 to Moss Glen Falls. It's a scenic area on the northern.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Edge of Stowe that she's visited many times. Now we know that she parked her bike against a tree, grabbed her yellow.

[James Petregallo]

Water bottle, climbed to the waterfall and sat on a rock where she took off her black gloves and set them on a rock and was looking at the falls. So we know that happened. No one ever sees her again.

[Leon Nayfak]

That's where her life disappears.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Poof. Like that.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's the last time anybody saw her. Was riding away from the bank, setting.

[Leon Nayfak]

Her gloves down, taking a swig of water.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody saw that, but we know it.

[James Petregallo]

And I'll tell you why. In a little while. So two days go by.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's now October 23rd.

[James Petregallo]

It was the 21st.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She went on a bike ride before her roommate.

[James Petregallo]

Reports are missing because they don't really.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Interact and they have different schedules.

[Leon Nayfak]

So she has a separate place so she could just be there.

[James Petregallo]

That's the other thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she didn't realize. She said she first called the local hospital, then the police to report her missing. And she said she didn't notice that she hadn't been home the day before.

[James Petregallo]

Because she said, we have totally different schedules. And she said that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But Wednesday, friends and people with whom.

[James Petregallo]

Patty had missed appointments started calling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hey, Patty was supposed to be. And it was like multiple people.

[James Petregallo]

So it's like, okay, it's not just, she blew somebody off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is a bunch of people. So the roommate said by then it was getting weird. So she gave police Patty's wallet and.

[James Petregallo]

Some clothes for dogs to trace a scent from.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then the roommate said she wondered whether she should have even called the police. She said, I thought, oh, no, what if she walks in?

[James Petregallo]

I'm Not a paranoid person. But what if I've given her wallet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And her clothes away and the cops, and then she walks in and she's like, hey, yeah, I met a guy.

[James Petregallo]

And I was hanging out with him or something. I'm going to look at.

[Leon Nayfak]

Take it easy.

[James Petregallo]

I'm going to look like a real asshole here. I'm going to look like a psychopath.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like, single white female shit.

[James Petregallo]

So she started thinking, oh, no, what.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If she comes home?

[James Petregallo]

But by Friday, because she left on a Monday. The 21st was a Monday when she left for the bike ride. So by Friday, the roommate was convinced that she wasn't coming back.

[Leon Nayfak]

She's not coming back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said she's really disappeared.

[James Petregallo]

She said they've called everybody in her phone book, meaning the police trying to track her down and no one knows where she is. So police launch an investigation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They provide local TV stations with a description of Patty and her bicycle, and.

[James Petregallo]

They broadcast it all on the evening news. They try to get a timeline going. So they talk to Greg Ewing, who.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He and his wife rented the first floor of a vacation home in Stowe from a guy named Neil Hilmer, who's a college friend of Patty's.

[Leon Nayfak]

Right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So this Hillmer guy who owns it said that he let Patty stay there.

[James Petregallo]

In the home, second floor, whenever she wanted to. That's where her cat was, and that's where she was moving to, was the second floor of this house that he owned. So witnesses also say that Patty slept over at that house the night before.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She went missing, and her cat is.

[James Petregallo]

There, and then she went home. So Ewing, who lives there, said on October 20, the day before she went missing, he saw Patty's small red car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Parked outside and saw Patty in the house's second floor talking on the phone.

[James Petregallo]

He said the next morning, the 21st, when she went biking, a Monday morning.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He went to work at 6:45am and her car was still there. Her car was gone when he got.

[James Petregallo]

Home at 5:45pm and he never saw it parked there again. Oh, which makes sense because she got up and drove it home, made cookies, and then took her bike out. Great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he said that normally when Patty was away for an extended period of time, she asked him to feed her cat. By Wednesday, October 23, he hadn't heard.

[James Petregallo]

From her or Patty. So he decided he should go feed the cat. That's how he knew, you know, I guess she's there now. That same day, the 23rd, when they're looking for her, an elderly couple, a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Guy named Howard Fogel, Jr. And his wife said they saw a bicycle leaning against a tree and.

[James Petregallo]

And black gloves on a rock at Moss Glen Falls that day. And a pair and a white yellow water bottle. So this is a popular hiking area and scenic spot. So this Fogle called this tip into the police who then focused the search.

[Jimmy Wissman]

On Moss Glen Falls.

[James Petregallo]

So they come the next day because this was at night. They found a bicycle. I don't know why they were in the woods at night, but they were. So the next day police find the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bicycle, a pair of black gloves and.

[James Petregallo]

A yellow water bottle all positively identified as Patty's.

[Leon Nayfak]

That's hers? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

On the rock is the bottle and the gloves.

[James Petregallo]

The bike is leaning against a tree away from. Yeah, down the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So now where the fuck is Patty?

[Leon Nayfak]

Where?

[Jimmy Wissman]

So searchers including dogs and spotters and airplanes and everything.

[James Petregallo]

I mean they had everything going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Combed a three mile area that night.

[James Petregallo]

And quit at nightfall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

More than 50 people participated, including state and local police, numerous fire and rescue.

[James Petregallo]

Personnel and just area residents that wanted to help out. I mean there's a missing young girl. This is vulnerable.

[Leon Nayfak]

James.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she's very vulnerable.

[Leon Nayfak]

Of a vulnerable stature.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Vulnerable stature.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think one day a cookies is going to change that. So two state police divers scaled the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

80 foot walls at the Moss Glen.

[James Petregallo]

Waterfall to search the pools below the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stow hazardous terrain excavation team scaled other rocky cliffs while a Vermont National Guard helicopter and civil air patrol plane circled above.

[James Petregallo]

This is every fucking person we can get to look for. Shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All the equipment.

[Leon Nayfak]

Still pilot's license. Let's go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Still Patty is not found until October 29th.

[James Petregallo]

It takes them five days to find her.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh no.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break.

[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Leon Nayfak]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

They find her in a rural wooded area about 75 yards from where her bike was found.

[Leon Nayfak]

No.

[James Petregallo]

They searched a three mile radius with everything possible. They were crazy. Standing right where she was the whole time. Like they were there the whole time.

[Leon Nayfak]

She was right outside that fucking war room van that they just park there.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing. Well, she, she's buried in a shallow grave.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, no.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So the dogs aren't very good.

[James Petregallo]

We'll just say that because they. They would start at the bikes and go out and they never found her. So they said leaves and debris were.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Found underneath her shirt, pants and underwear, suggesting she'd been dragged up above the waterfall. A waterfall and near an old logging trail. Her bloody underwear were found rolled up and stretched out.

[James Petregallo]

And her sweatpants were off center as if they had been pulled up by someone else. Okay, so. Yeah, and her underwear is really stretched out, they said. Now, they said there was definitely sexual assault here. The. One of the people on the scene detectives said, this is not consensual sex.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is rape. She didn't scream, she didn't run, because the blow to the head knocked her out.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, no.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Medical examiner determines that she died, though of asphyxia.

[James Petregallo]

Strangled after lack of oxygen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He hit her in the back of the head with a blunt object, quote, with such force that it tore right to her skull.

[James Petregallo]

That is what the medical examiner said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They believe she was knocked unconscious, which.

[James Petregallo]

I guess is better than being aware of what's happening to you when you're fucking murdered.

[Leon Nayfak]

That makes a person super fucking gross.

[James Petregallo]

That's the other thing. Yeah, that's what. That's a human being.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So evidence shows that hands were used to apply pressure to her nose, mouth and neck, leaving bruises, cutting off her.

[James Petregallo]

Oxygen supply, and said it would have.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Taken at least four minutes for her.

[James Petregallo]

To die that way. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow. They found lacerations and bruising indicating the blunt force injuries on Scoville's head, as well as neck injuries that were characteristic of strangulation and asphyxiation. They concluded that the oxygen deprivation due to manual and or ligature strangulation was the cause of death.

[James Petregallo]

And once she was dead, she was dragged into the woods and buried.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Multiple samples of DNA believed to be.

[James Petregallo]

The killers are collected. Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dr. Eric Buell of the Vermont Forensics Laboratory took DNA samples from the semen found on her body and clothing on, in and around. Test showed that both samples of DNA.

[James Petregallo]

Came from the same man, but it's an unknown man, and this is 91. So DNA technology isn't great. We just know that it's the same profile.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The state's medical examiner testified this might.

[James Petregallo]

Be the grossest sentence I've ever heard in my life. And we do a show called Small Town Murder. Buckle up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Quote, the abundant amount of semen.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, that's. That's. You don't hear that in. You don't hear semen as abundant, like volume of Semen normally isn't talked about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Suggested that the sperm had been deposited.

[James Petregallo]

Within hours of the death. So either right around the time or wasn't like a week, a day later or something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The medical examiner additionally said that the vaginal area had been subject to trauma or injury of some sort, including tearing.

[James Petregallo]

Of the hymenal ring. So in his view here, the nature of the injuries indicated an early reaction.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That suggested the injuries occurred when she was still alive.

[James Petregallo]

The medical examiner said that it's his.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Opinion that all the injuries to her head, face and neck and the injuries to her vaginal area all occurred at.

[James Petregallo]

Or about the same time and at or about the time of death. So nothing before she wasn't beaten and then taken out there later. So now here's the thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All of the add in the. There's evidence here. They. They know she was dead by 4:00.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you know how they know that?

[Leon Nayfak]

Watch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. No, no, no.

[James Petregallo]

They said, okay. This is the detective.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She loved Stowe, she loved the mountains, she loved nature, and she loved chocolate chip cookies. That is actually a very important piece.

[James Petregallo]

Of evidence in this case because the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Autopsy includes the examination of the stomach contents which reveals the presence of theobromine, which is a chemical found in chocolate.

[James Petregallo]

Now, this chemical normally completely is empty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is completely emptied from the stomach within.

[James Petregallo]

Four hours of consumption, it goes away and it's still there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she had to have been killed.

[James Petregallo]

Before 4 o' clock because she stopped eating cookies at noon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

So they know exactly when it happened, which is huge.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a huge part of this case. Never thought cookies would help us solve a murder or us, them solve a.

[James Petregallo]

Murder, but here we are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So they said if the chocolate had been consumed around noon when she'd been seen eating cookies, it would have been.

[James Petregallo]

Undetectable, unless she died before 4. And they noticed that. They said also that the autopsy was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Entirely consistent with her having died within.

[James Petregallo]

Several hours of her visit to the bank on October 21st. So, okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now, her friend, they bring her friend.

[James Petregallo]

In that we talked about, Amy Branch, that she's known since junior high.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She comes in to identify the bicycle.

[James Petregallo]

As hers, as Patty's, because she remembers it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She got it in junior high school. She described the bicycle to Stowe police, who reached her at her San Francisco home.

[James Petregallo]

She had moved, just moved out there when Patty moved to Vermont.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And she remembered the little bell on the handlebars with a picture of Mickey Mouse on it.

[James Petregallo]

And they said that was the clincher. That's what the bike was. Little Mickey Bell. So they said that was the clincher right there. They knew it was her bike. So that's very interesting. And a friend of hers said they.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Had recently gone on a bike ride.

[James Petregallo]

With her and she pushed her bike up against that exact same tree to go sit on the waterfall. So that's a thing that she did. It was a habit.

[Leon Nayfak]

Specific tree.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. They said it was the same fucking tree that she left it on. And they took the person out there and they were like. She leaned it against that tree and they were like, all right, so, wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The friend Amy said she wished she.

[James Petregallo]

Was still in Vermont because she just moved from Burlington to California right about the same time that Patty moved from Massachusetts to Vermont. She said, I feel totally helpless, you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Know, I can't help at all. They had met in junior high and.

[James Petregallo]

They talked again at their 10 year reunion.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said what's so ironic was that this was a big adventure for her to leave Boston and go to Stowe. She wanted to be a ski bum for the winter. She was really excited and really scared about the move.

[James Petregallo]

Now why the fuck didn't they find her sooner?

[Leon Nayfak]

Why?

[Jimmy Wissman]

How did that take so long?

[James Petregallo]

Okay, that's a good question.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They said that one thing.

[James Petregallo]

This is from one store owner nearby that they talked to in the newspaper.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Said one thing I kept hearing was, it's amazing someone didn't find her before. It's not like this is some local yokel investigation.

[James Petregallo]

This is a state investigation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Apparently they had dog teams from all over New England up there. They had the Patriot sniffer team going.

[James Petregallo]

On up there and they still couldn't find them. The Celtic sniffers, they called them. So the police said several factors prevented.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Her body from being found. Those involved in the initial search, including volunteers, were looking for lost or an injured person. There was no indication that there was.

[James Petregallo]

A body that would be there. They thought maybe she fell down while climbing up some rocks.

[Leon Nayfak]

They thought they were gonna find her just like a broken leg days or whatever, 100, whatever that was.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they thought they just find her like with a broken leg at the bottom of some little ravine and she.

[Leon Nayfak]

Up against a rock with like sawed off her own foot already.

[James Petregallo]

She had to chew off her arm to escape. Is the thing how it works.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So police started with Scoville's friends and acquaintances and ruled them out one by one with DNA.

[James Petregallo]

Just had everyone she ever talked to take a DNA test and clear. And basically so they were like, okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well then, shit, now we, now we're fucked. Nobody she knows. They then Focused on the known violent.

[James Petregallo]

Offenders in the area and started going down that list. Now people freak the fuck out in this town.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is a ski town. This. This does not happen here.

[James Petregallo]

This is wild shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So dozens of women called the police department asking whether they should carry mace.

[James Petregallo]

Or guns around now, is it safe to walk around?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And many are reporting incidents from weeks and months ago, wondering if there's any connection between their experiences and Patty's murder. And the one of the police captain said, it's amazing how many calls we've received from women saying they saw a suspicious person, were followed by a truck or car, or were accosted by someone while walking.

[James Petregallo]

These are just other incidents. That's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's how gross people are. Even in a nice small town.

[James Petregallo]

There's stalking and groping and all this type of shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He said he told the women, though.

[James Petregallo]

They should take extra precautions whenever going out because the police said they have no immediate suspects.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One resident named Sally said, I hiked up there all the time. It's really beautiful. It's really beautiful. But I haven't been out there up there since Friday.

[James Petregallo]

When I found out about Patty's disappearance.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My friend and I had a long discussion reviewing our habits in the woods.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, just. What. How. How we're gonna. Not gonna do this the same you don't go into the woods by yourself type of shit anymore. So they talk about that, and then they said everybody was frightened about the whole thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're used to feeling this town is a safe place.

[James Petregallo]

Now you hear a lot of people say, we don't dare go out alone. And another woman here who owns the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bookstore said she will no longer park in the space designated for employees behind.

[James Petregallo]

Her shop on main street because that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Area of the parking lot's not lit.

[James Petregallo]

And she's back there at night.

[Leon Nayfak]

And that tells people that in this dark area, there's going to be somebody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When this closes, I'm vulnerable. Come get me.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said, I have this feeling that the killer is dangerous and he may do it again. I think that she just happened to be there. He's somebody who knows that area. He had to have least. Had to at least have had some knowledge of the Moss Glenn Falls area.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's also a reward.

[James Petregallo]

Now, Patricia's family pledged $3,000 from a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Reward fund established to help arrest and convict the person responsible for this.

[James Petregallo]

And then they added another thousand dollars from Crime Stoppers to it.

[Leon Nayfak]

That's nice.

[Jimmy Wissman]

October 1991.

[James Petregallo]

Now, a little later in the month, they. On the 24th an affidavit says Detective Miriam, who's a lead investigator, said that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ronald Gabaree, G A B A R.

[James Petregallo]

E E, lived and worked in Stowe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

At the time of the murder, and he had a history of sexual assault. It also recounted a conversation with an inmate named Clifford Bartz who claimed that.

[James Petregallo]

Ronald Gabaree confessed to the crime to him in jail.

[Leon Nayfak]

Okay, but that doesn't mean much, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

They got a jailhouse confession.

[James Petregallo]

It goes nowhere. His DNA doesn't match. Of course, not him.

[Leon Nayfak]

Those are like 30% true.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They're hardly ever true because they always get deals. So it's. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So the case goes cold. They've DNA tested everybody around and they.

[James Petregallo]

Got no answers and no one saw anything. It's just a cold case.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Rumors start. The colder it gets, the more the.

[James Petregallo]

Rumors start flying around. In a small town, rumors circulate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is the dumbest thing ever. Rumors circulated that she was. She was killed by organized crime members because she came here as a part of the witness relocation program.

[James Petregallo]

And they found her. That's what they're saying.

[Leon Nayfak]

Several people bought that story.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. That was a big rumor around town.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's just a nice young lady that.

[James Petregallo]

Worked at a bank and wanted to ski instead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's all.

[James Petregallo]

There's nothing crazy about it. Not in the protection program.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, man. So by 1993. This is 10-21-93. Two years after the murder. Lieutenant James Dimmock said that investigators will be looking at pending leads and trying to glean some new ideas on where.

[James Petregallo]

To go with the case.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In other words, we have Shit. Nothing.

[James Petregallo]

Back to square one. Nothing, he said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She didn't run with the fast crowd. No drugs, no alcohol, nothing. She did. There's no. She has no.

[James Petregallo]

She doesn't, like, have a crazy life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where you could track down leads. There are no leads.

[James Petregallo]

She just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She hangs out with her cat.

[Leon Nayfak]

Maybe the Keebler elves got her. Like that was our job. Bitch. Maybe you're busting unions around here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Maybe the cat really hated Vermont and.

[James Petregallo]

Wants to get out. It's the cat, man.

[Leon Nayfak]

Fucking hand knives.

[James Petregallo]

That thing she held on the back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of her bike seat and she didn't.

[James Petregallo]

See her the whole way and then pounced on.

[Leon Nayfak]

Slit her throat and barely. Like a cat turd in the woods.

[James Petregallo]

She's going.

[Jimmy Wissman]

10-92-92. They think they have their guy.

[James Petregallo]

By the way, how?

[Jimmy Wissman]

October 92, the police chief said, we do have what we think is a hot lead. We hope it will turn out to.

[James Petregallo]

Be the perpetrator of the crime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They said it's one of many. We hope it's the one. The police need to get a DNA.

[James Petregallo]

Sample, a court order for one to be obtained by the end of the week, but it's going to take at least a month to do that. All this shit. So they said the case will remain a priority even if this lead doesn't pan out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The lead is Neil Besser.

[James Petregallo]

B E S S E r In an October 92 affidavit, Detective Miriam said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That in August 92, Neil Besser encountered a group of hikers in the Moss Glenn Falls area. During the encounter, Besser acted territorially. Did he pee on things?

[James Petregallo]

This is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Matri.

[James Petregallo]

Starts pissing on it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Leered at a woman commenting on her body. Threatened to, quote, beat the fucking shit.

[James Petregallo]

Out of her and all of her fucking boyfriends.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All of them.

[Leon Nayfak]

Calm down, Neil.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And said something. Something to the effect of, if you.

[James Petregallo]

Think that's all I'm capable of, you haven't seen anything. Okay, that's their lead. A guy was. A guy was a dick in the woods, didn't rape anybody.

[Leon Nayfak]

You ever hiked in the woods in New England? That guy is on every trail.

[James Petregallo]

He's everywhere.

[Leon Nayfak]

This is my trail.

[James Petregallo]

This is my trail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm pissing over here. You're not coming near me.

[James Petregallo]

It's my tree. That's my tree right there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What's wrong with you? How'd the Celtics do today?

[James Petregallo]

They all right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Was it game four? Right now. Come on.

[James Petregallo]

Any help?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tatum, Torres. He taught his Achilles.

[Leon Nayfak]

Tatum's hurt. Goddamn it.

[James Petregallo]

It's over.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Kobe. The. The affidavit says that when questioned about the encounter, Neil Besser lied, denying the knowledge of the location of Moss Glenn Falls. I've never been there before.

[Leon Nayfak]

Heard of it.

[James Petregallo]

But he was just lying to get out of that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not out of the murder.

[James Petregallo]

The affidavit also said he had a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

History of incidents of unwelcome and aggressive behavior toward women, including death threats.

[James Petregallo]

But it turns out not to be him.

[Leon Nayfak]

Not his semen?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. So they said that basically, as the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Years pass, the leads become less frequent. They said they usually get one hot.

[James Petregallo]

New suspect a year, and it doesn't pan out. This is my hot. My hot right here for it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So they said basically that the lead detective said he hopes to go out.

[James Petregallo]

Of state to see somebody in the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Next few weeks if this suspect fits the.

[James Petregallo]

Because he has a suspect that fits.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The profile of the killer who was.

[James Petregallo]

Living in the area at the time. They said this is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This case right now is the only unsolved murder in Stowe, which.

[James Petregallo]

It's a town of 5,000 people. There shouldn't be many. Five fucking. There should not be unsolved murders there. They said it's one of the few.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unsolved homicides in the state where police have no prime suspect.

[James Petregallo]

It's not even a suspicion. They don't have anybody. So anyway, they get frustrating tips to the chief or the captain said that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He'S not been given license plate numbers or any identifying information to track any.

[James Petregallo]

Of the reports of tips.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He said, I wish these people had.

[James Petregallo]

Called at the time. Give me a license plate number.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tell me somebody was doing something lewd and lascivious. Someone had their dick out.

[James Petregallo]

I want to know about it.

[Leon Nayfak]

Give me a pervert.

[James Petregallo]

Where's a pervert?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Send me a pervert right now.

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he said, give me a description. People need to know that they should be reporting these things. God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

I figure they cut the goddammit part out of the newspaper.

[Leon Nayfak]

Who the hell doesn't know to report pervert specifics?

[James Petregallo]

Assholes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Police have received about 1100 leads in.

[James Petregallo]

The last two years, but they said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Few in recent months. And they said 95% or better have been cleared.

[James Petregallo]

So what are you going to do?

[Leon Nayfak]

They've chased down almost 1100. God damn.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The reward is up to $11,000 now.

[James Petregallo]

5,000 from the family, 5,000 from Stowe Selectman, and $1,000 from Crime Stoppers. Stoppers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crime Stoppers.

[James Petregallo]

That's how they're going to say it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I call Crime Stoppers.

[James Petregallo]

They're going to put up a thousand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Scoville's parents said they're optimistic that the case will be solved. Dad said Annie and I are resigned.

[James Petregallo]

To the fact that we're going to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Have the case for the rest of our lives.

[James Petregallo]

He said that his family will be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In Stowe this month to meet with investigators. He said the police have, quote, done everything but find the killer, which is really the most important part.

[Leon Nayfak]

We've done everything else, guys.

[James Petregallo]

Everything else.

[Leon Nayfak]

We deserve some credit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

These people are so nice that they're not even.

[James Petregallo]

Like these incompetent fucks can't find shit. They're like, they've done everything except, you know, the one thing. But that's okay. They're. They're not even trying to be shitty.

[Leon Nayfak]

The paperwork's impeccable.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In 1994, the federal DNA Identification act establishes a national database of samples from convicted felons. The law support is strongly supported by.

[James Petregallo]

Scoville's parents, who are A big proponent for it, and they lobby Vermont to establish its own DNA database.

[Jimmy Wissman]

August 19, 1996. Five years.

[Leon Nayfak]

It's been so long.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Karen. Karen. K A R E N K E R I N Karen.

[James Petregallo]

Karen. Someone named their kid Karen, whose last name is Karen. This poor woman, she's born in 1966.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She works for the Burlington Free Press, the newspaper. And she goes on this day to a new delivery person's house to help.

[James Petregallo]

Them get started, get them set up of what they do and how to do all this type of shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This guy is Howard Skip Godfrey. Everyone calls him Skip. He's born in 47, so he's a.

[James Petregallo]

Bit older than the rest of the people in the story so far. Now, what happens here is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

Little bit about Skip, by the way, just to give you. This is your newspaper guy that this Karen. Karen's going over to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was committed to the Vermont State.

[James Petregallo]

Hospital in 1972 for four years after.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Assaulting and attempting to rape a female.

[James Petregallo]

Who was traveling alone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He used a knife during this attack. He also attacked two other people while hospitalized.

[Leon Nayfak]

Holy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was convicted of simple assault in 1977 after originally being charged with lewd and lascivious conduct.

[James Petregallo]

Remember that?

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, remember that? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Further, he was convicted of lewd and lascivious conduct in 1981. Both of these crimes are described as involving assaults on female strangers.

[James Petregallo]

Lone female strangers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

October 13, 1997 is when he'll be.

[James Petregallo]

Arraigned on some stuff that we're going to talk about here. Oh, no, this is a different one. In October of 97, right before this deal with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, this is later.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, we'll talk about this deal. So a year after the newspaper thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was arraigned on charges of attempted kidnapping and sexual assault arising out of an incident in which he was in his car when he saw a woman walking alone. He ran up behind her with a belt in his hands held over his head as if to strangle her, struggled.

[James Petregallo]

With her, and she escaped.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, dear Lord.

[James Petregallo]

This is some boogeyman shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. He lived for many years in the area where Patty's homicide took place and lived in that area at the time.

[James Petregallo]

Of the homicide as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He lived with a girlfriend from the.

[James Petregallo]

Early 80s until May of 91, which.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is only a few months before the murder, in various towns around the area. In 90 and early 91, they lived together in Walcott. During that time, he was not employed, but would leave the house for long periods of time during the day and.

[James Petregallo]

Drive around in his car. That's not suspicious. Or anything like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

May 19, 1991 his girlfriend obtained an abuse prevention order against him, removing him from their home. She claimed they had a violent relationship. He struck her, threatened to cut her.

[James Petregallo]

Head off with a chainsaw, and attempted to rape her. Hopefully not with a chainsaw.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So while he was removed from their home, he lived with people he knew in High Park. He had his own car and continued to spend his days driving around. On occasion, he would visit relatives traveling.

[James Petregallo]

Through stowe on Route 100, which is the exact route that she was on her bicycle past the area where the homicide occurred.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Also during that time, he gave one of the acquaintances with whom he was.

[James Petregallo]

Living a wrecker operator that the guy was a wrecker operator detailed directions to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A remote area off the Moss Glenn Falls.

[James Petregallo]

So he knows the area extremely well.

[F]

Planning any exciting trips this year? I bet something you might not be planning is learning the local language. Well, with Babbel, you only need a few weeks to learn. Crafted by over 200 language experts, Babbel's quick lessons focus on real world conversations, not just textbook phrases. The advanced speech recognition technology works like a personal language tutorial, helping perfect pronunciation with every lesson. Studies from Yale and Michigan State University prove it works. 15 hours with Babbel equals a full college semester of language learning. With over 16 million subscriptions sold, the results speak for themselves. Ready to start talking? Get 60% off at babbel.com truecrime that's B-A-B-B-E-L.com truecrime babbel.com truecrime hi, I'm Alison.

[G]

Marino, host of what's a podcast the Revolution Redefined, a new documentary series from Oxford Road and the team behind Age of Audio. We dive in into how podcasting exploded into a storytelling revolution and how big tech and big money are threatening its future. Now you'll hear from podcast industry heavyweights like Ira Glass, Adam Carolla, Guy Raz, Leo Laporte, the Meisellis brothers, and more. What's a Podcast? The Revolution Redefined is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts, imagine.

[Howard Godfrey]

A place where innovation and lifestyle perfectly align. In Michigan, you can be part of our rapidly evolving automotive and clean energy industries while enjoying life to the fullest. By day, shape the future in our thriving tech hub. By night, discover beautiful natural wonders, accessible housing, exciting nightlife, and an inclusive community that welcomes all. Whether you're developing next gen technology or exploring your next favorite restaurant, Michigan offers the perfect balance of work and play, ready to make your career and life aspirations a Reality. Live your best 9 to 5 and 5 to 9. You can, in Michigan. Work, play and find inspiration. You can in Michigan. Learn [e-mail] that's TheMichiganLife.org an area close.

[James Petregallo]

To where the body was recovered. Same area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Then in the fall of 91, he was asked to move out of one.

[James Petregallo]

Of his friends residences because of an unprovoked attack on a mutual friend while they were all hanging out. He's a psycho. He's a good person.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Now back to Karen. Karen, she was the district sales manager for the Burlington Free Press. When she went to his home on.

[James Petregallo]

8-19-96, he was about to take on a delivery route.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They were going over contracts and billing procedures. Fifteen minutes after she arrived, Howard got Skip.

[James Petregallo]

We'll call him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Skip got up to get a drink of water and then struck her in the back of the head with a wooden mallet.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, dear Christ.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bleeding and feeling like she was gonna pass out.

[James Petregallo]

She thought she was about to be raped and killed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said, quote, I had just gotten married three months before. I looked outside, it was a nice day.

[James Petregallo]

I wasn't ready to die at that point. I.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So when she stood up and turned.

[James Petregallo]

Around, Skip had a fucking shotgun pointed at her.

[Leon Nayfak]

Where'd he get that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somewhere he had it planned. And he was blocking the door.

[Leon Nayfak]

Uh oh.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said, okay, well, I can have whatever's gonna happen to me happen or I can go down fighting. So she reached up and grabbed the barrel of the shotgun and started wrestling.

[James Petregallo]

With him, which is, oh, my God, Paul's personified.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And she with. They were fighting for control until he fell on top of her.

[James Petregallo]

She at that point pleaded with him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

To let her go. He said no, saying, you're just gonna go to the cops. She told him, someone is waiting for me.

[James Petregallo]

They know where I am. They're gonna come here. It's either way it's caught, it's gonna happen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So eventually she said, listen, let me.

[James Petregallo]

Go and I won't go to the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cops and we'll just forget this ever happened. I'm fine.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not injured, I'm okay, my head's okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll be fine.

[James Petregallo]

And she said, as long as I got to a doctor, just let me to the hospital. I'll say I fell down, don't worry about it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she persuaded him to unload the gun and then she took the shells and she. He drove her to a convenience store where she called the police.

[Leon Nayfak]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was arrested later that evening after hiding in the woods. And telling people he was going to.

[James Petregallo]

Shoot himself, he had to be hunted in the woods.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He admitted he assaulted her, saying, quote, he went over the end.

[James Petregallo]

That's what he said. I went over the end. The end. He said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he had women problems in the past also. He said he didn't want.

[James Petregallo]

He wasn't going to kill her. That was never his intention. He just wanted to hold her there.

[Leon Nayfak]

For a while, persuade her to do other things.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, he ends up being held on that obviously, for all aggravated assault and everything like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She said when she got there, the front door was open, but they didn't see anything. Or the cops said when they got to his house, the front door was.

[James Petregallo]

Open, but they didn't see anyone inside.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They said we were concerned for Godfrey's well being because he's threatened suicide.

[James Petregallo]

So they said. Godfrey later told the cop that he.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Had reloaded his shotgun and went up into the woods after Karen. Karen had left the house.

[James Petregallo]

And the cop said, the defendant advised.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That when we came to his residence.

[James Petregallo]

The shotgun was pointed at his head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the finger was on the trigger. And about 7:40pm Though, Godfrey called the.

[James Petregallo]

Police and told the investigator that he.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Went over the end and admitted he has assaulted Karen.

[James Petregallo]

And then about 20 minutes later, he turned himself in at the police station.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So during the taped interview, he says, quote, the defendant advised me that he had a meeting with an employee from the Burlington Free Press to talk about the billing process.

[James Petregallo]

And he advised that after talking for some time, he went up to get.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A drink of water. And all he remembers is fight, is.

[James Petregallo]

Striking her and then fighting with the gun for the gun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He said he told the cop that he was thinking about women and became bitter and that women tick him off in restaurants.

[James Petregallo]

But he doesn't say anything. They were like. Because, yeah, they were asking him, like, when do women make you mad? He's like, in restaurants, they go, what do you do about it? He goes, I don't say nothing.

[Leon Nayfak]

Okay, real mad.

[James Petregallo]

Let's get real over there. Eating salads and shit. I don't like it.

[Leon Nayfak]

Table before me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he pleads guilty to charges of.

[James Petregallo]

Aggravated assault here and that and the other one with the belt incident too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he is sentenced to use. Sir may fuck off. Six to 12 years in prison.

[James Petregallo]

He does five years for aggravated assault.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now, during this time, Karen. Karen had heard about Patty's murder and began talking to her mother about the case.

[James Petregallo]

And her mother had just moved to Vermont or, I'm sorry, the case.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Patty had just moved to Vermont and was found killed. And she.

[James Petregallo]

The mother said, we thought he was the one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is the exact.

[James Petregallo]

They were like, this could be the guy, you know what I mean? Just because.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whatever.

[James Petregallo]

So she called the police and the detective said it was a lead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's something we didn't know about him before.

[Leon Nayfak]

So you're being the most Karen of any Karen ever. Karen. Karen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're Karen. Karen it up, man.

[James Petregallo]

She is hardcore.

[Leon Nayfak]

Hi, my name is Karen. Karen. I have things to say.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, I bet you do. Karen. Karen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So April of 98, Vermont joins the DNA database. The Scovilles. Their parents helped persuade Vermont lawmakers to.

[James Petregallo]

Allow the state to be part of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The national database system.

[James Petregallo]

The FBI receives a DNA sample from.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The Scoville killing and stores it in the national database. Then seven days later, on Mother's Day.

[James Petregallo]

1998, the Scovilles joined Governor Howard Dean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

As they signed the Vermont database into law.

[James Petregallo]

And they said that the mom said, this gives us some hope.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In 2000, the Vermont Forensics laboratory takes.

[James Petregallo]

A blood sample from Godfrey when they release him from prison. It's part of their thing. It was a violent felony. So they get a blood sample.

[Leon Nayfak]

Keep you on fire.

[Jimmy Wissman]

2001. It's been 10 years.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

People want this shit solved.

[James Petregallo]

The police chief said, it really eats me up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I want this one solved. He said in a town where violent crime is rare and random violence is virtually unheard of.

[James Petregallo]

This story, this is ridiculous that this isn't closed. They said it's a very close community.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And residents say they can't go to.

[James Petregallo]

The moss Glenn Falls area without thinking of murder. So they also said the case isn't gathering dust. The investigator said, this is not forgotten by any of us who are involved in that investigation. They said it's one of those cases that hasn't been forgotten and hasn't gotten any dust over 10 years, it's still being plugged away at.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's 2,000. Five years later, they are doing a.

[Leon Nayfak]

Lot of plugging on this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck, man. February 23rd, 2005. Godfrey's blood sample is finally entered into.

[James Petregallo]

The federal DNA database.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

February 28th.

[James Petregallo]

Federal authorities match the DNA with the semen at the scene of.

[Leon Nayfak]

Karen was right.

[James Petregallo]

Karen nailed it.

[Leon Nayfak]

God damn it, Karen.

[James Petregallo]

Sometimes Karen's are right. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

March 26th.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the great cigarette butt heist.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know why they needed this. They had that, but they needed another.

[James Petregallo]

Source of DNA, so they had to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Surreptitiously collect saliva samples from him. He owned Godfrey, owned sg Windows and.

[James Petregallo]

Doors in Orleans, Vermont.

[Leon Nayfak]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he smokes. So after he finished a cigarette, he threw it out on the ground.

[James Petregallo]

And the cops who were like in.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The bushes out to the side, ran.

[James Petregallo]

Up and collected the cigarette button, matched it up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the saliva on the cigarette also matched samples from the 91 and 96 crimes.

[James Petregallo]

They arrest Godfrey for the murder. So that's a big deal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They say that the chances of two.

[James Petregallo]

White men having this particular DNA makeup.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is 1 in 235quadrillion. There's billion, trillion, then quadrillion.

[Leon Nayfak]

Think about that shit to court. Godfrey fight that one out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[Leon Nayfak]

He's gonna have to plea, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, people are relieved. They say few if any days have gone by in the last 14 years that someone in law enforcement in Vermont has not been thinking and working on this case.

[James Petregallo]

They said it took so long because there is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There was so much DNA coming into that database.

[James Petregallo]

It took so long to process. And they were underfunded at first too, so they didn't have the manpower to do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Patty's dad said it doesn't really help.

[James Petregallo]

Us to focus on the mistakes right now like this. We're happy they found someone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So there's a guy from 1991 named Michael Barber. He says he and Howard Godfrey, Skip, were really close friends. They knew each other almost 10 years. They had coffee three or four times a week at the Charlemat restaurant. Charlemarne restaurant in Morristown. Or at church, where they met for the first time. Yeah, Church.

[Leon Nayfak]

He's out there begging for forgiveness.

[James Petregallo]

Yep.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the two men who did logging, bulldozing and excavation work sometimes shared the same job.

[James Petregallo]

Barber said he would refer work to Skip as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In April of 2005, he finished dinner. Barber picked up the local newspaper and.

[James Petregallo]

Saw Godfrey on the front page and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Saw the Patty Scoville, Moss Falls thing. Moss Glenn Falls. And he said it kind of floored me. So Barber grabs his work records, which he kept meticulously over the years, even 15 year old work records, and looked up the fall of 91. The records at that time showed he had referred Godfrey to a job cutting trees on a property not far from Moss Glen Falls.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

So he contacted the police to tell them about that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Godfrey also talks to the cops. First, he said, never knew her. When they show him a picture, I.

[James Petregallo]

Don'T know who that is. Never knew her. Then he says he doesn't know they have your semen. Well, then they said, is there anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Else you want to sell?

[James Petregallo]

They told him, we have your DNA and he said, I don't know her. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So then they said, anything else you want to say?

[James Petregallo]

And he says, I do and I don't. Oh. And they said, well, we need an answer. Yes or no.

[Leon Nayfak]

That's what you don't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Either we leave or we stay.

[James Petregallo]

What do you want?

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he said this. He said, quote, you obviously have the.

[James Petregallo]

Evidence that I had sex with Patricia Scoville. And that was my concern up there. If I admitted to you, then automatically you were going to charge me with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Murder, because I know that was the outcome of the situation.

[James Petregallo]

Well, I just admitted to you that I had sex with her, but that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's. Without a lawyer present.

[James Petregallo]

I think that's as far as I should go.

[Leon Nayfak]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He did say. I can tell you one thing. I've never killed anybody in my life.

[James Petregallo]

Even when I was in the service.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pleads not guilty, by the way.

[Leon Nayfak]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I like this description from the newspaper. In court, Godfrey twiddled his thumbs, waiting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

For Judge Howard Van Bettenhausen to enter the courtroom. Godfrey's hands were dirty.

[James Petregallo]

He had a bandage on his left cheek.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The tongues of his black boots hung forward without shoelaces to hold them back. Behind him, many police officers had a.

[James Petregallo]

Picture of Patty on their lapels opposite their patches. They're just wanting to kill this guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

November 2005, they fight about whether the FBI can test Godfrey's hair without extra.

[James Petregallo]

It's a bunch of bullshit. They. Yes, we'll test whatever we want.

[Jimmy Wissman]

By 2007, Godfrey's on his fifth attorney, by the way.

[James Petregallo]

He's booning it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's booning it, man. So they rule that DNA evidence can be used at Godfrey's trial. However, they rule out his statements to police.

[James Petregallo]

Most of them, they can't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They. Prosecutors cannot refer to his 97 assault conviction as well. But Godfrey's lawyers aren't allowed to introduce.

[James Petregallo]

Evidence that 12 other suspects may have committed the crime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Um, his lawyer said that Godfrey had consensual. Consensual sex, but didn't kill her because she loves dirty old men.

[James Petregallo]

That's what she's looking for in the woods.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Even though ridiculous, they called the charges against him circumstantial.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Telling the 11 man, one woman jury that the presence of his DNA on.

[James Petregallo]

Her body doesn't mean he's the killer.

[Leon Nayfak]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. They also the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

His friend testifies in more detail.

[James Petregallo]

His friend with the logger guy, he pointing to a map of Stowe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He testified that he showed Godfrey another 700 acre property in the Brownsville area of Stowe, just north of Moss glen Falls.

[James Petregallo]

In 89, Godfrey was instructed to start.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Logging 40 acres of that property.

[James Petregallo]

He said that he would get to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The land by going up Brush Hill Road and said it's possible to get there by going down Randolph Road and past the entrance to Moss Glen Falls. Godfrey told police that he had never.

[James Petregallo]

Been to Moss Glen Falls, which he's very familiar with. He logged the fucking thing. Godfrey sent a wrecker there. That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So former employer also testified that Godfrey.

[James Petregallo]

Performed excavation work at a development on Elmore Mountain Road right near Moss Glen Falls as well. So also they get a guy, Chuck Hess Jr.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here, who owns Hess's used cars.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He said he's known Godfrey on and off for at least 30 or 40.

[James Petregallo]

Years and that Godfrey has purchased used.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cars from his father. By the fall of 91, Godfrey had a portable sawmill set up behind Hess's used car lot where dried wood was stored.

[James Petregallo]

This guy, also Hess, he's a volunteer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Firefighter, recalled how he and others were dispatched on 10-25-91 to aid in the search for Patty. And he said when he returned to the used car lot the next day, Godfrey asked him where he'd had gone. And this guy told him.

[James Petregallo]

And Godfrey just went about his business. They didn't ask any follow up questions, didn't do nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So they asked the detective, when he.

[James Petregallo]

Gets on the stand, why did Godfrey hit her?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he said, to rape her. That's why.

[James Petregallo]

Which is the worst chicken cross the road joke that's ever existed.

[Leon Nayfak]

Why the chicken cross the road to rape her?

[James Petregallo]

Why'd the psychopath hit the woman with the rock to rape her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hilarious. It's not at all. So they said Howard Godfrey found his prey at the viewing area. She was taken to the area where.

[James Petregallo]

The water park where the water bottle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Was found, and there where she was raped.

[James Petregallo]

One defense witness says that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It'S really. He says that he saw the gloves.

[James Petregallo]

That day, but there wasn't a bike there that day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He said, I would have noticed a bicycle. So someone planted the bike later, he said, or some shit like that. There's also two stray hairs. They found two hairs on her that.

[James Petregallo]

Don'T belong to Howard, which Skip. Which means nothing by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hair sticks to things. Roommates went to the bank.

[James Petregallo]

She got all sorts of shit. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now, his lawyer said those hairs are the killer's hairs.

[James Petregallo]

What about the load of semen all over the place? That's not the killer Semen.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah. Things more likely the semen did it.

[James Petregallo]

Is the person they said, you believe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Patricia Scoville was raped and murdered in one attack. They asked the detective and he said yes. And they said, if you were wrong in that assumption, you've made a terrible blunder, haven't you?

[James Petregallo]

And he said, I don't believe I'm wrong here. I think I got this one here.

[Leon Nayfak]

That could be a thing. Yeah, but I didn't.

[James Petregallo]

2350-000000-00000.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Did you hear that part?

[Leon Nayfak]

He's telling us that he had consensual sex with that young woman. Impossible.

[James Petregallo]

Young pretty woman with her life ahead of her. Scumbags. He's going to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, so the defense in her. In their closing said that. That the DNA evidence, the assumption that the DNA belonged to the killer was wrong. And that led to a case on a house of cards. They said, this structure cannot stand.

[James Petregallo]

She literally pulled my cousin Vinnie out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It is not supported by any evidence. What really brings the house of cards tumbling down is the hairs. The colored hairs were found in her mouth and pubic area and couldn't be linked to Godfrey. She suggested those are the real killers hairs. Or they were out in the forest.

[James Petregallo]

And they picked up with the leaves and rocks.

[Leon Nayfak]

Or they came off of Godfrey's shirt.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Any.

[Leon Nayfak]

Anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's what I mean.

[Leon Nayfak]

It could be transferred from him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

From him? From anybody.

[James Petregallo]

The prosecutor. Prosecutor. That's the weird way to say it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Said he silenced her and took deliberate steps to hide the crime. The only conclusion you can come to is Howard Godfrey sexually assaulted and murdered Patricia. The proof is this case is well beyond a reasonable doubt and the jury.

[James Petregallo]

Only deliberates for two hours and find him a guilty of aggravated murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

During the sentencing, the Patty's dad said, why? How could someone do this to another person? Why Patty? That was my little girl. And you raped and murdered her.

[James Petregallo]

And the judge says, well, you sir, may fuck off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Life without parole. Eat all the dicks.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And the family said, I think Patty would be happy that there's some justice foundation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The police chief said that, you know, holy shit. He said, I could have sworn we had the killer at least a half dozen times.

[James Petregallo]

They said, wow, this is until we're happy.

[Leon Nayfak]

And then you look at him and you go, probably.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's the one. May of 2008, the lab here, the lab that they do the work in, the DNA work.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The CODIS laboratory is renamed the Patricia.

[James Petregallo]

Scoville Memorial Codis Laboratory because her parents were so. Well, you thought I was going to go into they had a bunch of scandal and all that. No, no.

[Leon Nayfak]

The CODIS lab found that a bunch of samples were mixed together.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So the mom here, Anne Scovel, said that was really a positive note to finish on, to say there's a tribute to Patty.

[James Petregallo]

It helped us withdraw a little bit by bit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You hear people talk about closure. I wouldn't call it closure, but it.

[James Petregallo]

Does bring it to an end. Now 2010, he appeals, arguing that his.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Attorneys argued the case against him was circumstantial and the conviction could not rest upon inferences drawn from other inferences.

[James Petregallo]

The court said. I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. Plenty of evidence. Eat dicks. It's not circumstantial.

[Jimmy Wissman]

DNA evidence is not circumstantial.

[James Petregallo]

Your load your loads on a dead girl, that's not good, period.

[Leon Nayfak]

That's terrible. This is the worst.

[James Petregallo]

2013 in prison here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Old Skip here is found dead in.

[James Petregallo]

His cell at Southern State Correctional Facility.

[Leon Nayfak]

That's great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's terrific.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They responded to a call early Tuesday morning. He's 67.

[James Petregallo]

He died in prison, they said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It appears to be due to natural causes.

[James Petregallo]

And there's no signs of foul play, unfortunately.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unfortunately, no one raped him.

[James Petregallo]

But that's okay, now that we know. That we know of now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Patty is buried at St. Mary's Cemetery in Onondaga. Onondaga County, New York.

[James Petregallo]

And by the way, this Howard, this Godfrey Skip guy, there's all sorts of Reddit trails that go down rabbit holes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Trying to connect him to the Maura.

[James Petregallo]

Murray case, just based on geography, which, I mean, who knows? I don't know if they've checked into that or what, because this is an express episode. We don't have time for that shit. So either way, though, this is a bad guy. Glad they caught him.

[Leon Nayfak]

So he's a dead guy.

[James Petregallo]

He's a dead guy now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So there you go, everybody.

[James Petregallo]

That is Stovermont.

[Leon Nayfak]

What a story.

[James Petregallo]

A fucking crate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cookies, man.

[James Petregallo]

Cookies.

[Leon Nayfak]

Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cookies solved it all. It's all cookies.

[Leon Nayfak]

That woman had cookies at noon, and he only had four hours to woo her enough to have sex with her. That's not enough time.

[James Petregallo]

No.

[Leon Nayfak]

Fuck, no time. No, you can't do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She wasn't like that at all.

[Leon Nayfak]

You had maximum of four hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You need to put, like three months.

[James Petregallo]

In, taking her out and giving her flowers before she's gonna fucking do anything with you. I think this. I think she's a real upstanding face.

[Leon Nayfak]

Band aid.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. So a logger with A face band Aid and a long criminal record and mental hospital fucking reigns and shit. So there you go, there's Stowe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hope you enjoyed it. If you did, get on whatever app.

[James Petregallo]

You'Re listening on, give us five stars.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tell your friends, do all that good stuff. Follow us on social media.

[James Petregallo]

We are at Small Town Murder on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Instagram, at Small Town Pod on Facebook for sure. Head over to shut up and give me murder.com get your tickets for the rest of the year. Live shows are coming. A lot of them are selling out. So get your tickets now.

[James Petregallo]

Portland already gone, I think. Madison, I think there's a bunch of them. I don't even remember. There are a lot of them are selling out. So Grand Rapids is close.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

San Diego I think is sold out now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not sure.

[James Petregallo]

Get your tickets to Irvine. There's like a couple there.

[Leon Nayfak]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So get in there and get your tickets. Shut up and give me murder.com.

[James Petregallo]

Get your patreon on patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material.

[Jimmy Wissman]

$5 a month or above get you a whole huge back catalog of bonus stuff to binge on as soon as you subscribe. New shit every other week. One crime in sports, one small town.

[James Petregallo]

Murder and you get it all. This week what you're going to get for crime and sports we're going to talk about the worst soccer riots that have happened in the world. That'll be a blast. Nothing to really do with sports there. And then for Small town murder we.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Are going to go into the regular.

[James Petregallo]

Episode from this week from Idaho. That murderer's extensive blog and the crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shit he writes and he tries to.

[James Petregallo]

Like defend being a pedophile. He's a monster and his shit is insane and we're going to make fun of him greatly. So patreon.com crime and sports is where you do that and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You want to follow us on social.

[James Petregallo]

Media, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com drop down menus take you where you want to go. That said, thank you so much for joining us and until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Foreign.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you like small town murder you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the.

[James Petregallo]

Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Prime members can listen early and ad.

[James Petregallo]

Free on Amazon Music.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Before you go, tell us about yourself.

[James Petregallo]

By filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Howard Godfrey]

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