Double Life, Double Murder - Newton, Kansas

Summary

Small Town Murder – "Double Life, Double Murder – Newton, Kansas"

Podcast: Small Town Murder
Hosts: James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman
Episode Air Date: February 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmie delve into the small city of Newton, Kansas, unraveling a chilling murder case rooted in deception, brutal violence, and the consequences of a double life. The story centers around the 1994 murder of Rhonda Krebel in her own home – a crime initially enveloped in mystery but eventually linked to a killer with a secretly criminal past and a false identity. The hosts provide their usual in-depth research, gruesome crime details, and signature comedic banter, exploring not only the facts, but the oddities, frustrations, and small town quirks surrounding the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Newton, Kansas: Setting the Stage

• Introduction to Newton

  • Located 30 minutes from Wichita; population ~18,500.
  • Median income below US average; affordable housing market.
  • Notorious past: Gunfights, high crime reviews, alleged police corruption – “the wickedest city in the West.”
  • Residents’ reviews: “Quiet town, good for raising kids, but meth is a problem”; others call it “the vortex of despair.”
    • Memorable Quote: “A vortex. The wickedest city in the west or the vortex of despair.” – James (09:17)

• Local Flavor

  • Events like Sand Creek Summer Days, cardboard boat regattas, and a surprisingly robust music scene – “good old Midwestern family fun.”

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The Krebel Family and the Crime

• Rhonda Krebel (née Schmidt)

  • Born and raised in Newton, 1957. Married Von Andros Krebel in 1980; three daughters.
  • Described as the ideal small-town mom: active in churches, nurseries, community groups, always a happy, welcoming home.

• Precursor Incident

  • Weeks before the murder, Rhonda argued with Matthew Murphy, a waiter/assistant manager at the Newton Inn, over a bill at a Christian Women’s Club meeting.
    • Matthew was enraged by the confrontation, describing Rhonda as “a fucking bitch.” (18:37)
    • Co-workers recall his regular complaints when serving her group.

The Day of the Murder: May 20, 1994

• Rhonda brings her daughters and a friend home after a field trip; is last seen scooping ice cream for the kids.
• Friend’s mother comes to pick up her daughter, finds no one answering, and eventually contacts Rhonda’s husband and a nearby relative (Kevin).
• Kevin finds two young girls crying in a closet; the six-year-old says, “The bad man hurt Mommy” (26:25).
• Police discover Rhonda’s body: hogtied with pantyhose, gagged with tape, strangled and severely beaten with a blunt instrument (13 head strikes); apparent attempted sexual assault interrupted.

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Investigation and Community Crisis

• Immediate Suspects

  • Focus on family members; Kevin’s odd behavior (dumping Rhonda’s purse) and bizarre answers during questioning ("an angel stopped me from opening that bedroom door"; describes Rhonda as “sexy” – 44:00) make him an initial suspect, but he’s cleared due to the child witness’s recognition: “Kevin is a dipshit... but not the man in the house.” (46:58)

• Child’s Testimony

  • Six-year-old victim witness provides a surprisingly detailed description – tall, thin man, blue eyes, Jesus-fish red cap, aviator sunglasses (37:43).
  • Lois Gibson (famed forensic sketch artist) creates a composite that’s plastered across Kansas, but leads go cold for over a year.

• Physical Evidence

  • Sunglasses under the bed (do not belong to the family), cigarette butts under the window (family are non-smokers, pointed to the killer’s surveillance), bindings made from materials within the house.

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A Second Murder and the Unraveling of a Double Life

• September 1995: Jody McCown’s Disappearance

  • Wichita sex worker Jody McCown accepts an unusually large offer for an overnight “date”; her friend notes the john’s car license plate.
  • Jody disappears; the car is traced to “Matthew Murphy,” but the man’s actual name is Chester Higginbotham – a felon with a tragic, abusive past and an intricate false identity.

• Chester’s Background

  • Child abuse victim; locked in closets; mother died when he was 13.
  • Long criminal record: theft, burglary, forgery.
  • Assumed the identity of an Arizona man who died in a bike accident to become “Matthew Murphy.”

• Connecting the Murders

  • Police, initially investigating Jody’s case, find rope, tape, and zip ties in Chester’s shed, matching bindings used in both killings.
  • Both victims: hogtied, gagged, bound with improvised materials, apparent sexual assault interrupted – killer knew both women.

• Breakthroughs

  • Chester’s wife (Vicki) reports seeing a blonde woman slumped in his car (later identified as Jody), didn’t question him due to her meek nature (59:02).
  • Chester previously worked as a waiter/assistant manager at the Newton Inn (Rhonda’s nemesis); he walked past her house daily, explaining surveillance.
  • Vicki confirms Chester smokes the same brand of cigarettes found under Rhonda’s window and wore signature aviators and the Jesus-fish hat.
  • At work after the murder, Chester had a swollen eye (Rhonda fought back).

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Trials, Aftermath, and Closure

• Trials & Sentencing

  • Jody McCown’s case (1996):
    • Chain of physical evidence (rope, tape, matching tattoos in Chester’s sketchbook) leads to a first-degree murder and kidnapping conviction.
    • Verdict: Hard 40-year minimum sentence plus 49 months for kidnapping.
  • Rhonda Krebel’s case (1999):
    • By now, DNA analysis definitively links Chester to the crime (1 in 5.5 billion match).
    • Signature similarity to Jody’s murder.
    • Verdict: Guilty – another “Hard 40” sentence.
  • Quote from the judge (74:24):
    • “This is an especially heinous, atrocious and cruel crime... You, sir, may fuck off.” – Judge, on sentencing Chester

• Psychological Profile

  • Chester described as a manipulative sociopath formed by a cruel, abusive childhood.

• Family & Community Response

  • Krebel family’s impact statements and loss described as especially heartbreaking; video montages and victim support group outreach noted.
  • Rhonda's sister refuses to judge Vicky, Chester's wife, noting, "She could have been a victim. She could have been killed, too." (74:56)
  • Newton’s culture is permanently changed: from unlocked doors and safe neighborhoods to alarm systems and vigilance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Newton’s reputation:
  • “A vortex. The wickedest city in the west or the vortex of despair.” – James (09:17)
• Kevin’s interrogation:
  • “An angel stopped me from opening that bedroom door.” – Kevin (42:37)
  • “Sexy.” – Kevin on what he thinks about his cousin, the victim (44:00)
• On suspects:
  • “You're a complete jackass, let me tell you that. But I don't think you're a murderer.” – James, on Kevin (46:06)
• On child witnesses:
  • “Adults second guess themselves. They overthink it. Children just tell you what they saw.” – Lois Gibson (52:40)
• Chester’s signature:
  • “He wore his favorite shit to the murder.” – Jimmie (72:54)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Town Introduction and Reviews: 04:17 – 12:42
• Background on the Krebels and lead-up to the crime: 12:42 – 19:54
• The Murder & Immediate Aftermath: 20:05 – 34:05
• Investigation & Child Witness: 34:05 – 40:49
• Case Goes Cold, Community Panic: 50:03 – 52:55
• Jody’s Case, Discovery of Chester’s Identity: 52:55 – 58:57
• Storage Shed Search, Vicki’s Testimony: 61:50 – 62:41
• Linking the Murders, Evidence Building: 62:41 – 67:29
• Trials and Sentencing: 67:29 – 74:56
• Final Thoughts and Reflections: 74:56 – 76:09

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Tone & Delivery

The episode expertly balances detailed, factual storytelling with comedic detours and personal asides, staying sensitive when needed but unafraid to highlight the oddities and dark humor that only small-town America (and true crime) can provide. James and Jimmie punctuate the bleak story with banter, impressions, and relatable frustrations with institutions, suspects, and the odds of survival in a town like Newton.

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Conclusion

This harrowing yet oddly absurd tale underscores the dangers lurking in plain sight and the layers of deception a single person can create in a trusting community. The hosts demonstrate both reverence for the victims and a critical eye toward law enforcement, witness behavior, and the quirks of small-town life.

Transcript

[Amazon Music Announcer]

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[James Petregallo]

Small Town Murder is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, but potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Hello, everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another episode of Small Town Murder Express. All aboard the Murder train.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Pulling away from the station. We have a wild one for you today, as usual. When are the expresses not crazy? When are the regulars not crazy? They're all crazy. They're murder stories. Just the thought of how it started. Gonna be crazy right there from the start. Before we get into that very quickly, definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com what's there? Get your tickets for live shows, everybody, including, well, it's gonna be this weekend. If you're listening to it, it's right now, right when it comes out, Nashville, February 21st. Get in there if there's still tickets left. Also, March 6th in Durham, March 7th in Atlanta.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's go.

[James Petregallo]

Get in there. Get those tickets. And then that the March 21st, your stupid opinion show, Phoenix at standup live. Come out and see us. Shut up and give me murder.com also get yourself patreon. Do yourself a favor. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get everything we put out immediately upon subscription. Hundreds of back bonus episodes, new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get them all. This week. What we're going to give you is for crime and sports, we're going to do dead cyclists part. Yeah. Who knew that cycling is the most dangerous sport that's ever existed?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

There could be a sport that's literally like catapulting people to see how much farther they would go and it would be less dangerous than cycling. It's insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The guys that train it and do it like for A hobby. They're brave, brave people because I see them constantly in traffic.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they're gonna get killed. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Out of their minds.

[James Petregallo]

Out of their minds. Then for small town murder, let's get into some conspiracy talk and some what happened talk. We're gonna talk about Kurt cobain finally, and what happened there. Had a lot of people asking about that. And we've had a new investigator, a new private investigator come in recently and have some stuff. So we're gonna talk about it and new theory. Well, not really a new theory, just kind of. I guess we'll talk about it during the show. It's small town murder. Do that. Definitely. That is patreon.com crimeinsports and you get all the shows we put out. Crime in sports, you, stupid opinion, small town murder, all with your patreon ad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Free ad.

[James Petregallo]

Free. And on top of all that, you even get, you get a shout out at the end of the show. So you get that too. You get everything. Patreon.com crimeinsports we're crazy. We're giving it away. We can't have inventory on the shelves. That's what it is. Take it all. Just take it all. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. I think it's time to clear the lungs here. Let's do that here. And let's get ready to shout. Arms to the sky. And let's all shout. Shut up. Give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was so excited.

[James Petregallo]

I know you are. You were jumping it. I like it. I like enthusiasm. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Going to Kansas this week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is something that you don't normally hear people say. No, not I'm going to Kansas. Why? What's going on there?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He was trying to get back.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, exactly. This is newton, Kansas. And I don't care how they say it, I don't care if it's newton or neaton or whatever they want to say. You're like a fig newton. It's newton, Kansas.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's it.

[James Petregallo]

Central Kansas. This is in. It's about a half hour outside of Wichita. About 2 hours and 45 minutes to our last Kansas episode in Prairie Village, Kansas. Episode 633, brilliant brutality. That was a wild one, too. Kansas, you guys, you seem mild on the outside, but let me tell you something, you got some stuff going on. Yeah, this is in Harvey county. Area code 316. Population here. Not too tiny, actually. 18,000, 576. So not like Nebraska a couple weeks ago, where it was a bunch of 400 person towns. Median household income here, 59,586, which is about 10,000 below the national average. Not too outstanding, but the median home cost is well below the national average at $143,600. Yeah. If you want to. Very expensive kite in rural Kansas. No problem. Easy to do. Little bit of history. It was founded in 1871, named after Newton, Massachusetts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, so it's definitely Newton. That's what they say.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. But you never know here. I mean, that's the thing we found out. People said El Dorado. I mean, anything's possible. It was home of some of the Santa Fe Railroad stockholders. It was Massachusetts, so they named it Newton. There. In August of 1871, the gunfight at Hyde park occurred.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Awesome.

[James Petregallo]

Where eight men were killed. That's a big gunfight.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a gunfight.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. That's not a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Eight men were killed.

[James Petregallo]

That's a battle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a. Yeah, that's a.

[James Petregallo]

It's a small military skirmish. That's a lot, man. The incident began with an argument between two local cops.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Two cops?

[James Petregallo]

Two cops. Billy Bailey and Mike McCluskey.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And anyone else with an alliterative name is welcome to jump into this as well. If they haven't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Michael McDonald.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. If there was, like, a Ronnie Ronaldson. Get on in here, buddy. We're ready for you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is amazing.

[James Petregallo]

Because of this, Newton became known as bloody and lawless and quote, the wickedest city in the West. Wow, that's awesome. That sounds.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dodge City's in Kansas, isn't it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. Dodge City. But this was. I mean, Dodge City had Wyatt Earp and people shooting people, but you didn't have cops starting major gun skirmishes with each other. That's wild. So there's that. Shortly after incorporation in 1872, the council passed an ordinance prohibiting the running at large of buffalo or other wild animals.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Running at large, like, through the town square.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if it's to make them go a certain direction so you can shoot them. I'm not sure if that was part of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, right. Cause there aren't, like, ranchers for buffalo. That shit's wild. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To drive them by, like. Cause people would be on, like, a train car and just sit and shoot buffalo. So sometimes they would hire people to drive them. By now, this place has 3.5 stars on niche as far as reviews go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, not bad.

[James Petregallo]

So let's find out what the hell these people think about this bad boy here. Here's five stars. It's a quiet town. Good for raising kids. I would just like to see less meth problems here. But I guess that's everywhere. That's a five star review.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just want a little less methy.

[James Petregallo]

Five stars. You know the meth. It happens. Three stars. Newton is a great size. He'll be happy to hear that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Size isn't everything.

[James Petregallo]

He'll be happy to hear he's a great size. That doesn't mean he's huge. It just means he's right. You know what I mean? Not so small that you know everybody's business, but small enough to make connections when you're out running errands. There are four grocery stores and decent options for eating out. That's good. One star. Lived there for 10 years. It's crime and meth infested. Yeah, that's a little less.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what we heard a minute ago.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You can't order from Amazon because there's a 50% chance that your packages will be stolen by addicts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

50%? Isn't that just roll of the dice?

[James Petregallo]

50%?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Isn't it always 50%?

[James Petregallo]

When I lived at the place down the street from the methadone clinic, I would have killed for 50, 50 odds. I was not getting what they sent. Ever. I would have loved 5050 odds. It was just everything's getting stolen. Period.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you had a fence like around your patio.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't matter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Your whole house was closed in.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't matter. Opened it up. Take my shit. It happened all the time. Horrible things go on there. I think of it as the vortex of despair. Wow. A vortex. The wickedest city in the west or the vortex of despair.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Write that down.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. A vortex of desp. Bear is awesome. That's amazing. The PD is awful as well. Corrupt to the bone. The sheriff's department is great and it's a pretty little town. There's definitely good people there. There is so many complaints about this police department in these reviews too. Here's another one. One star. The Newton PD is very corrupt. No help in any way. If you call them for help, you will more than likely catch a charge of some kind. They will twist anything and everything to say to say. Then hold you up in court for a year over nothing that sounds like that happened to this person.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're arresting everybody.

[James Petregallo]

That's not a like this could happen. Theoretical shit. This is a year. This is by far the worst place in Kansas. Called the cops on myself asking for help and they arrested me. Tried to take my kids and are now charging my wife, saying we have no contact with each other. We have five kids and not even the DCF took our kids. So why the hell does Newton think that they can sow over that town? There's no punctuation in that entire review, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Called the cops on myself and I faced. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

There's a lot going on there. Another review says, a corrupt little town indeed, filled with residents who lie, cheat and steal from those who work hard to maintain their lives and try their best, only to be knocked down time and time again by the very law that tries to live by. To protect and serve. Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're crying for help, James. We gotta help.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Newton, you guys, this place exists in America.

[James Petregallo]

What is going on? Cops are shooting at each other. Things to do in this town. The Sand Creek Summer Days Festival. Daz. Of course. Sand Creek. That's what they're doing. They're having concerts and food and rides and, you know, bullshit. Basically, they call it, quote, good old Midwestern family fun. Okay, okay. Midwest, yeah. Yeah, that's still. It's the Plains, but it's still the Midwest. Yeah. Especially eastern Kansas, definitely. I would say. There is a skateboard competition, which I didn't expect. That's pretty good. There's a kickball game, a community kickball game. Apparently. There's concerts, There is a live mural. A cardboard regatta. What is that? We've talked about this before. You make shit out of cardboard and float it. Make little boats out of cardboard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, like a boat. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

All right. Yeah, one of those things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was gonna say regatta. Sounds water, right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's like a boat race type deal. Okay. Live performances, sometimes on Sunday is one of them. They get the coveted. Oh, that's a band. Yeah, they get the coveted 10am slot that we all go for as performers. At 11:20, the High Flyers will be coming out. Uh. Oh, 12:30. The Great Brain Freeze.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no, it's all local.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And then the headliner is the Bethel Performing Arts. So probably kids singing here. That's not great. Oh, there's a couple others, too. The hall and Oates Project. Okay. Cover band. Then there's a Toes in the Ice competition. I don't know what that is. That's in the middle of the summer. And then the Yacht Grooves Band just play like Michael McDonald and Jimmy Buffett over and over again. A bunch of shit yacht rock. So there you go. That said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good.

[James Petregallo]

Let's get into this, okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

If not, I'm gonna kill somebody.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I gotta get out of this town, man. This place is rough. It's the wicked vortex of despair. Jimmy, what do you want? It's terrible. Let's talk about a lady first. Here. Here is Rhonda Lou Schmidt with a DT Schmidt. Yeah. Later on she'll be Kreebel, but we're gonna go with Schmidt for now. She's born August 21, 1957. Born in Newton. She's Newton. Born and raised.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Born and raised.

[James Petregallo]

Vortex of despair. Poor lady. Her parents are Robert and Mary Lou Schmidt. She grew up here. She attended local school here like every other kid in this town. Basically, she goes to college and meets a young man named Vaughn Andros Schmidt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Von Andros Schmidt? Yeah. That guy is. Yeah, that's a man. I'll tell you something. Or. I'm sorry, Kreeble. Did I say Schmidt? Schmidt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I was like, wait, what?

[James Petregallo]

Krebel. Von Krebel. Wow. That is. And I'm thinking that doesn't sound right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Too many Schmidt's.

[James Petregallo]

Too many Schmits.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is all about Schmidt today.

[James Petregallo]

All about. It's a totally different movie about Schmidt. So Krebel here, Vance Vaughn and Andros Krieble, they start dating in the late 70s when they're in college. They get married in 1980, so she's now Rhonda Lou Krebel. And could you get a more German name than Von Andros Schmidt? Good Lord. He's gonna be like. He's gonna have like a monocle. He's gonna be like the guy after Glass Joe in Tyson's Punch Out. That's what he's gonna be, that guy. So anyway, they have a Midwestern life, man. He works in Wichita, half hour away. As we talked about. They have three daughters. And it's a happy environment. These two like each other. Rhonda and Vaughn like each other.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Beautiful.

[James Petregallo]

They get along. They seem to. Everybody says. All the kids say they had nothing but fun and activities and always laughter in the house. Everybody says, love it. Like all the friends that would come over. Kids friends would be. They liked going over there because it was like a happy house. Real happy house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wait till he has to pay for three weddings. He's not going to be happy about that.

[James Petregallo]

He's not going to be happy about that. Yeah. He's like, luckily that was then. That'll be going away by the time they're adults. Good. So Rhonda was a stay at home mom, so she could be with the kids she also worked in nurseries. She taught Sunday school, helped with preschool programs. She was into the Christian Women's Club and all that kind of thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's Vaughn's gig in Wichita? What's he do?

[James Petregallo]

Not sure exactly what he does. Some kind of business deal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he's doing okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he seems to be doing all right here. The family doesn't seem. They don't seem to have any financial pressures or anything like that that we know of anyway. People always describe Rhonda as a really nice and kind person, a Midwestern lady who has three kids and wants to be a mom. And she's a very nice lady.

[Jimmy Whisman]

School shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, nice lady. They said her wedding was beautiful. And they talked about how the holidays at their house were wonderful and full of laughter and all that kind of shit. So that's nice. Mid May 1994. Here. Let's go there. There is a Christian women's. I want to call it Christians Women Club, and that's not how it is. Christian Women's club, meeting at a restaurant. This is at the Newton Inn. So they're all gathering. That's the restaurant, and they're gonna have a big meeting here. They hold regular meetings there, and they're normally given a reduced rate for their meals because they're a regular thing that happens. Standing arrangement, whatever. For some reason, on this day, the restaurant gave them a bill for full price. Okay. Rhonda was not having. She was not having this shit. And apparently she's in charge of dealing with that. Not happening. Yeah, not today. You're not getting me. So according to what happened, people. According to people at the inn and according to other people that were there, Rhonda asked to speak to the manager about the bill, which seems reasonable. Yeah. I mean, there's a bill. A bill issue. That's who you talk to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is wrong. Let's talk to the manager.

[James Petregallo]

So they said the manager just. He just stepped out. He's not here right now. So they sent over a waiter to the table to deal with it. Yeah, you deal with it and figure out what's going on. Now, this waiter's name is Matthew Murphy. What happens is an argument between this waiter, Matthew Murphy, and Rhonda. They have a big old fight about this bill. I don't understand. This needs no escalation. Like, from his point of view, these are regular customers. They come in all the time. It's a bunch of church ladies. Let's not have a screaming argument. And then from their point of view, we come here all the time. Let's not act like assholes. So neither of these people have any motivation to fight. It makes no sense why they're fighting, honestly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Apart from this guy wants a bigger tip because the bill's bigger. Well, Matt's not even the guy that did the survey.

[James Petregallo]

No, he's just the guy they sent over to try to smooth things out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's just been here the longest.

[James Petregallo]

He's the guy. Well, he's kind of like assistant managerish too, type deal. So whatever. Front of house type of guy. So anyway, they ended up arguing. Rhonda's yelling at him. And from what I understand. I don't know if she's yelling, but she's explaining her situation. The Matthew Murphy had to recalculate the bill. So he said, okay, yeah, that's the deal. He goes back, he fixes the bill. From what I understand, from what all the people in the kitchen said, when he got back into the kitchen, he was just teeming with rage over this shit. Yeah. Just angry as fuck at these people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The agreement we came to was not in his. He was not happy with it.

[James Petregallo]

He just wasn't happy that he had to deal with the whole situation. So one of the baker who worked at the restaurant said that Matthew came back shouting, what a bitch she was. What a fucking bitch this lady is that I had to deal with. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Take it easy, Matt.

[James Petregallo]

Calmly, they said he slammed down books and, like, slammed a coffee mug down. He was very upset. Another woman who worked at the inn said that she heard Matthew talk about Rhonda several times during the Christian Women's Club meetings. Not favorably. So this isn't the first time he's dealt with Rhonda and does not like Rhonda.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He does not like this gathering here.

[James Petregallo]

Does not care for this shit at all. They probably tip like shit. They probably tip. I'm sure it's probably a standard 10% or some bullshit like that. So I get it. And it's the same people every week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And It's a standard 10%. Standard 10 on a reduced bill, which is even more bullshit. I'm putting out just the same amount of work for way less money. This is fucking dumb.

[James Petregallo]

And I bet they want everything to be just right all the time. So, I mean, that's fine. But I get it. I've been a waiter, so I understand it's the worst to deal with people like that, but understandable. But he is extra upset. This is one of those things that just happens at a table.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And you deal with it and you walk away and you go, move on and you go to the next table. But this, apparently he's done eating the crow, James.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's done swallowing his pride.

[James Petregallo]

He's full and that's what it is. He felt like she embarrassed him so he was upset about that. Okay, so about a week later, Friday, May 20, 1994, Rhonda takes her two oldest daughters, an 8 year old and a 6 year old, the 6 year old's name is Natalie, on a field trip to Wichita. She goes on, it's a school field trip, she's a chaperone. Her youngest daughter who is like preschool age, has dropped off at grandma's house. So there you go. About two to 2:20 somewhere in there. Rhonda returns home to her house in Newton with six year old Natalie and Natalie's five year old friend. Okay, so we got two little kids. The eight year old had returned to class with her schoolmates and the youngest is still at grandma's. So it's Rhonda, little six year old Natalie, five year old friend. Rhonda's scooping the girls ice cream. What a great day for these kids. They got to go on a field trip. They're getting mid afternoon ice cream. This is awesome. So they're sitting in booster seat type high chair situations because five six year old girls are still pretty small and they're eating ice cream and they're having a good time and cartoons are on and all that kind of shit. Now about 3:20 to 3:30 somewhere in there, approximately, the friend's mother here arrives at the home to pick up her daughter. Pick her up? Yeah. She knocks on the door, rings the doorbell, nobody answers. Oh, Rhonda's car's in the driveway, the front door's unlocked as no one locks their doors in this town by the way. Yeah, it's a non locker town. So she figures maybe Rhonda took the girls to the store or something or whatever. So they're not here at the moment. So she just goes home, she starts calling the house to see when she'd get back. Every couple minutes she calls and no one ever picks up. She calls again, she calls again, she's just waiting. So by 3:30 in the 3:30 to 4:00 clock time period, this woman is now starting to get a little bit worried.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's been an hour and I'm looking for my kid.

[James Petregallo]

It's your five year old too. If it's a 14 year old you go, who knows, maybe it's five. You want to know exactly where a five year old is at all times. So she contacts Rhonda's husband, Vaughn, old Vaughn Andros Krebel here, he's over there in Wichita. He's in wichita, it's about 30 miles away. Now Vaughn says, well, I'm 30 miles away, you're closer than me, but let me call some family members that are close in the area and see if they can go over. So they call up a. They call up a cousin here that lives nearby and his name is Kevin. Some sources have him listed as a different name, but I think it's Kevin. It doesn't really matter. So at this point, before Kevin gets there, the eight year old daughter arrives home from school. Oh, she finds the house locked. Now. Now it's locked, front door's locked, which it's never locked. So she's like, what the hell? So she just shrugs and goes over to. I didn't say that, but yeah, yeah, she goes over. What the fuck is this? What's this fucking bullshit? What are we locking fucking doors now? Ma, come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nobody gives me a goddamn key around here.

[James Petregallo]

I got nothing over here. I don't got a garage door open. I got no key. Fucking people breaking my fucking coolons over here. I'm trying to get in the goddamn house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want that to be all that.

[James Petregallo]

She says, trying to get in the house over here. You fucking. Well, one of you mooks let me in or what? Come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Feeding my sister the fucking ice cream at noon.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Christ, everybody's eating ice cream. What am I doing standing in the yard like a fucking jerk off? That's what I'm doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fucking jerk.

[James Petregallo]

This poor. So yeah. She shrugs. Goes to a neighbor's house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He made a fucking jerk out of me.

[James Petregallo]

He made a jerk out of me. So she goes to a neighbor's house, this kid, the eight year old. Now somewhere between 4:00 and 4:25, Kevin arrives. Okay, the cousin or some relation that he is, he has a key. Oh, he's the. You know how you always give it

[Jimmy Whisman]

to him but not the kid that comes out.

[James Petregallo]

Not the kid. Well, you don't give an 8 year old a key to a house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck no. This is gonna end up on a playground somewhere on the ground. Kids are not responsible to hang on to things that are important, like a key, I suppose. Yeah, I wouldn't give an eight year old chapstick. That's not coming back to the house. It'll be gone by the time they get Home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Both of my kids have had keys to my place since the divorce. One was eight, one was ten.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. I could see they still have them. I wouldn't give them those.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They've done all right. They beat the shit out of a couple of phones.

[James Petregallo]

They don't do anything now, though. They get them going on an iPad. Kids used to go like, run around outside and shit. That's your keys getting lost.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can get like seven goddamn phones, but they got the key.

[James Petregallo]

You can give a couch kid a key, that's fine. You can't give like a playground kid a key. That's not gonna work out a couch kid. I'd have lost a key in three seconds when I was a kid. So Kevin arrives, he lets himself in. He yells for Rhonda. Nobody answers. He notices her purse is on the counter. He's like, okay, that's a good sign. She must be close by. If her purse is there and her car is here, her keys and her wallet and everything are right where they should be. And we know that because he dumps her purse out. Which is a strange move. Correct? Is that odd?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Usually you look at the purse.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I wouldn't dump it out like that. Weird. So it's very strange. She's just not here for some reason. He's looking around. Then he hears something. He hears faint, muffled crying. Like little. Little tiny voices of crying. He's like, what the fuck is that? Where is that coming from? Like if you heard like an animal outside in a tree, like, what is that? So he hears it coming from upstairs. So he runs upstairs and follows the sound to the room that it's coming from. And it appears to be coming from behind the closet door. He opens the closet door. There's two little girls in there. There's six year old Natalie and her five year old friend are sitting in the closet together and they're bawling, crying. Kevin's like, what's wrong? And all Natalie can get out is, the bad man hurt Mommy. Oh, boy, that's not good. So Kevin calls 911 right away and the dispatcher tells him, hey, stupid, get the girls and get the fuck out of the house. Number one, you don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't touch anything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, whatever you do, don't dump anybody's purse over. That's very important. Don't touch the goddamn thing and get out of the house with the kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've already licked everything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, my DNA's on everything. So they go wait outside. And so that's where he stopped Is that bedroom got the girls went out. As soon as 911 told him to get out, he went out and he went out in the front yard basically in the middle of the day. At about 4:30pm, Newton Police arrive. There's a Detective Walton here who's gonna be kind of overseeing this whole thing. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you just a better way to eat with good chops.

[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

It is. I'm a New York strip guy. I had a nice New York strip. Very marbled and delicious. Thing is juicy quality stuff here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I love a good pork chop that's like, that's thick and juicy and tender and that's, that's rare. It's not easy to get those.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

He's among the first on the scene and he said this was about as bad of a thing as he's ever seen in his life. And on the job here they search the whole house and don't find anything until they get to the master bedroom. Okay? They open the door and they find Rhonda and she's dead. She's dead. She's on the bed. She's bound, gagged and a bloody mess.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, it's horrible. The blood soaking her hair and the bed, blood spatter on the walls, really. Pictures are covered. It's terrible. One eye is swollen shut.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Her clothes are partially removed now. They said the room wasn't ransacked. There was a few drawers open, but not full on. Ransacking. Rhonda's wrists and ankles were tied behind her with pantyhose. So they hogtied this poor woman with pantyhose. Her own pantyhose that were taken from a drawer. Her mouth was sealed with white masking tape from a roll found in the dresser.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is weird.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. A white tube sock was knotted around her neck as a ligature. Her right eye was swollen and discolored. Bruises inside were inside of her mouth and on her legs. There's pieces of torn underwear next to her body. So everything that has been used on her came from inside right here?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. This room didn't bring anything home. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't know. There's no. Nobody brought anything here. The pantyhose, her tape, her socks, all this shit. Wow. Now they find that Rhonda was struck in the head 13 times with a heavy, blunt object. It said something like a mallet. Okay, so this is a brutal. Yeah. Brutalize this woman. I mean, this is overkill. This is ridiculous. Her skull is fractured in every way you can imagine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

So this is a small town, and shit like this doesn't happen. Church lady dead on the bed with her kids in a closet very often. So the county attorney shows up to the scene.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they're real interested. Mary McDonald, she shows up and said, this has to be somebody very bold that did this, because it's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The county attorney is on site.

[James Petregallo]

On site? Yeah, they are. She knows this is gonna be her case and she wants to get a feel for it. And like I said, this doesn't happen all the time. So you hear something like this, and it's not just two crackheads stabbed each other to death or something. Or two cops had a shootout, like, back in the day. But they said this had to be such. It's broad daylight. Yeah. Beautiful day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's ice cream.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Residential neighborhood. Two children in the house. Like, this is a particularly bold person.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very brave. And the kids saw him. And the kids are alive.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing that's strange. So they said this had to be someone who did this before or someone who knew her and had a specific reason to be here. There's gotta be something. So outside they find some evidence, because inside they're not finding a whole lot of evidence that it's only shit that was in the house. So there's not a lot to connect it to except in the house. But outside they find right beneath the living room window, scattered all throughout the grass below the living room window, cigarette butts. Tons of them. Tons of them. Bunch of cigarette butts. This is a big picture sitting there a while, huh? Yeah. This is a big picture window that looks directly into the house. Yeah. So it's Richard Ramirez style.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Watching and smoking.

[James Petregallo]

Watching, smoking, stalking. And nobody in the Krebel house smoked. There's no ashtrays or anything. It's not a smoking house. So someone stood out there smoking for a long time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's an interesting choice, right, to be watching something while smoking? Because I mean, that's a halo of

[James Petregallo]

scent that you're giving off scent you can see. It's an odd choice.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Smell that for, I mean, quite a ways.

[James Petregallo]

I would say so. I mean, in 1994, you're gonna smell smoke coming from a lot more places.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a good point. It's a great point.

[James Petregallo]

The grocery store, everywhere. Yeah. Under the bed. And this almost gets missed actually. But it's found kind of in the last sweep of the bedroom. They find a pair of aviator style sunglasses with teardrop shaped lenses. Now they go and they make sure, they say, does this belong? Because they figure it's probably Vons or somebody, but it doesn't belong to anybody in household. So they're like, okay, this is the only outside thing that we found in the house is this. These sunglasses. So then they need to know what happened. And the only person who can give an insight to what happened is a child is a six year old. And luckily a six year old is a lot more together than a four year old. You can ask six year old questions and they'll give you a narrative.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, they'll give you some shit that they don't realize that they're giving you some shit and. But they're giving you everything. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

It might be a rambling narrative. Yeah, yeah, it might be a rambling narrative too, where there might be. You might have to tell them to slow down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, you gotta chase them.

[James Petregallo]

They'll have it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh yeah, they'll get it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, for sure. No, it's like a cat. You have to like, hey, come over here. No. So Natalie says shortly after 3pm There was a knock at the door. All right, Nobody. These neighbors come over all the time and stuff. So knocks on doors aren't a big deal around here. Not a big deal. She said nobody. We wouldn't even Ever check the peephole? Most of the houses. Most of the houses don't even have a peephole. They said in this town, people just open the door. Whoa, that's crazy. I don't even do that. Isn't that wild?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't even come near the door thanks to the fucking doorbell app.

[James Petregallo]

No. And even if I didn't have a doorbell app, I'm not expecting anybody. Don't really care who's at the door.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm not answering it.

[James Petregallo]

Whatever you got, leave it there and go away. I'm not answering you. If I know you, you would have told me you're coming. Otherwise, I don't need this. So Rhonda had told the girls, keep eating and she'll be right back. She walked to the front door, opened it, and returned to the hallway. Natalie said, this time followed by a strange man. She described him as tall, thin, with dark hair under a red baseball cap with a fish symbol on it. And they. They're like a fish, like a. Like a bass or a fish. Like this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus fish.

[James Petregallo]

They ended up figuring out it's a Jesus fish.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ha. I'm getting real good at guessing.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus fish. Yeah, well, I mean, what other kind of fish is it going to be, though, honestly?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, it could be a lot of things.

[James Petregallo]

It could be like a bait shop hat or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it could have been the fucking. The fish hat from the sandlot.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. But I think we all know what's going on in Kansas. It's. It's. Yeah, it's a Christian. It's a Christian fish. So also, he was wearing sunglasses. Aviators. Yep. Jesus fish. Sunglasses. The girls had never seen him before. And Rhonda didn't introduce him, like, oh, this is, you know, my friend Bill, or whatever the hell. So she walked, I guess. Natalie said she didn't even stop. When she came back in, Rhonda with the man. She just walked straight toward the back of the house, toward the master bedroom with the guy behind her. So Natalie said, and this is a six year old talking. Something felt weird about it. Her mom would never just do that. Her mom would say, hey, I'm doing this, or hey, whatever. So she said that. Whatever. She's six and she just forgot about it. She kept eating ice cream, basically. And you don't think your parents are in any kind of peril or anything like that when you're six, you're just like, oh, it's my mom, she'll take care of it. I got ice cream, whatever. So she does this now they say that she just told the girls to keep eating the ice cream and walked away. So it's interesting now, between 3:10 and 3:20, Natalie finished her ice cream and decided she wanted to go outside to play. So she walked down the hallway toward her mother's bedroom, but didn't see her anywhere. So she just said instead she saw the strange man standing alone in the hall. When they asked her, like, what's his expression like? She said she couldn't figure it out. She was hard to read. It was a weird. He didn't look mad, he didn't look happy, he didn't look anything. Just kind of whatever, just blank. Blank. She said he did have blue eyes. She remembers that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh. So the glasses are off now.

[James Petregallo]

Glasses are off. So she says, where's my mom? And he doesn't answer her. He just stares at her. So Natalie peeks past him into the bedroom and sees Rhonda on the bed with her hands and feet bound and her mouth gagged with tape. Her mother's trying to talk to her but can't because of the tape. So she's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

And I'm sure she's saying, run the fuck away.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get out of here.

[James Petregallo]

Run. Get out of the house. Go to the neighbors. But she can't. So at that moment, the man. There's this. Imagine that uncomfortable moment of, oh shit, what's going on? The kid saw it. What's happening? So the girl must have been terrified in that moment, I assume. And Rhonda, Jesus Christ. Even more terrified. The man grabs Natalie and carries her down the hallway. Imagine the fear Rhonda's feeling for everything right now. He also then grabbed the five year old friend, brings them both upstairs and shoves them both into a closet in Natalie's room and slams the door. So that's why they're in the closet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was a lot of anxiety.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So about 3:15 to 3:25 here, they're in the closet and the girls hear sounds. They hear heavy thuds.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh God.

[James Petregallo]

It's like something hitting something else. They said they heard seven or eight bangs. They said they thought it was that Rhonda was being shot. They thought their mother was being shot because they just heard these loud bangs. That loud?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She was not being shot. The gunshots were the sound of the impact. That's how hard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody was beating this poor woman. So the investigation there is pressure. This town wants this crime solved yesterday. Yeah. Fucking mom with her kids in the house, getting brutalized in her own fucking bed on A weekday afternoon, for Christ's sake. Like, this is not happening here. So they freak out and really, really do. So they start with the people closest to her, obviously, to try to eliminate people. Obviously. Kevin, the guy who found the body or found the situation, Vaughn, we're gonna talk to all of that. It's usually someone who knew the victim. Now, Vaughn is the easiest to clear because he was at work 30 miles away. No way he could have done it. There's witnesses and he's there. He's at his desk. Now, Kevin, though, or whatever his name is, his story is odd and that's strange. He said he entered the house, he saw Rhonda's purse and emptied it on the counter. Which again, weird thing to do when you're checking. Started robbing her. Yeah. Let me see what she's got in here first. He's a nursing student, but there's no. Like, I better see if anyone needs medical help. None of that crosses his mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Later, when asked about why he didn't go check on Rhonda immediately, he said, quote, an angel stopped me from opening that bedroom door. That's his actual quote. To a man with. There's a person with a badge sitting across from him asking serious questions about a dead woman. And he said, an angel stopped me from opening that door. You just pistol whipped that guy. Right? For that, you just said, we're gonna be adults now, and we're all gonna be very serious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now there's an exorbitant. Is that a word? Exorbitant?

[James Petregallo]

Hell, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of people believe that.

[James Petregallo]

I get it. And a lot of people aren't sitting in a homicide interrogation room because you can believe whatever you want.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I know.

[James Petregallo]

In this room, we're serious people. You can say, oh, there's angels and this and that. In this room, we deal in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We deal in facts and blood evidence. We deal in evidence and proof.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think so. You can't say that. So they said, you're going to take a polygraph there, chief. What are you saying about that? So he says, okay. When asked what he thought of his cousin Rhonda, his one word answer, what do you think it was?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Did he quote Matthew and say, she's a bitch?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. He said one word answer. Sexy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

My dead is very sexy. I don't. I. This guy is not good at being interrogated.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No. There's not a person in my family that described this thing sexy.

[James Petregallo]

If they said, too. That's not like, after 10 minutes that came out too. Well, what does she look like? I mean, she's attractive. Would you call her sexy? She's sexy, I guess. No, that was just. What's your thoughts of your cousin? Sexy. That was her first thought. This is one word answer. It wasn't. She's nice. She's a good mother. She's a good person. She's pretty sexy too. No, sexy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, even if his relation to her is through Vaughn, that's still a fucked up answer.

[James Petregallo]

Still a weird answer, man. And I think he's her cousin too. That's the even weirder part. When asked if he killed her, he said, quote, if I killed her, I must have blacked out. Which is a terrible answer because you weren't even. You're supposed to not even be there. So you just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've only heard that as an answer in times when somebody killed somebody

[James Petregallo]

because they don't want to say no on the polygraph and have it go. So police put him at the top of the suspect list. I would say he gets a lawyer and he's not cooperating anymore.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I wouldn't cooperate either if I fucked up and gave those two shit ass answers.

[James Petregallo]

Well, if I was a lawyer, I'd go, never answer a question again. First of all, ever. I don't care what the question is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Your wife has any questions for you, call me.

[James Petregallo]

How many gallons on pump? 10. You call me up and I'll talk to the clerk. You don't need to talk to the cashier. I'll take care of it. You're fuck it all up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hello, lawyer. Do I want fries with that? Good call.

[James Petregallo]

Good call. Yeah, thank you. Good call. Just don't tell them you killed anybody when you biggie sized that shit. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Blacked out. What?

[James Petregallo]

You idiot. You jackass. So Detective Walton didn't think he's the guy though? No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Detective Walton thinks he's a fucking weirdo.

[James Petregallo]

No. Yeah, well, it makes sense too. I think he's an idiot, obviously. You're a complete jackass, let me tell you that. But I don't think you're a murderer. And the reason is Kevin is known to the family. Natalie knows who Kevin is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, right. Yeah, she's seen him.

[James Petregallo]

And they went back and they said, could it have been Kevin? And she said, no, I did not know this man who was in the house. Kevin came in later. That's a different guy completely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And this is 1994, so, like at the very, very beginning, but today with those glasses, brother, this shit's over. Tomorrow.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. So they said that the one thing that investigators know about children and they could be unreliable, but the one thing they are reliable about is, do you know this person? Yeah, they know whether they know someone or not, and they don't. She said, I don't know that person, but I sure as shit know Kevin. So there's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That just gives some stupid fucking names.

[James Petregallo]

They go, what about your uncle Kevin? And she's like, oh, he's a dipshit. Don't get me wrong.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's dumb.

[James Petregallo]

He's dumb as fuck. I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't ask him for help on my home. No.

[James Petregallo]

I'm six and I feel a little bad for him, let's put it that way. So technology is not where it is now in 1994. There is DNA technology, but you need like. Like blood. Like a blood. You need like a, you know, a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A whole.

[James Petregallo]

Like a. Like a thimble of semen. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He liked a whole load.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. To like hair, you need it, like, with the root attached, shit like that. So over the next five years, that'll change drastically, but tremendous. At this point, yeah, it's kind of a nightmare. So the sunglasses are their only piece of physical evidence. Yeah. And they were subjected to superglue fuming, which is to get fingerprints off. If you've ever seen Beverly Hills Cop 2, Eddie Murphy will explain it to you using a turtle. A turtle aquarium and a matchbook. You remember that scene now, don't you?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I love when he casually explains crime scene shit.

[James Petregallo]

In those movies, you just do this shit. So no usable prints. And the fuming process complicates shit because the chemical residue from the super glue coats the lenses and potentially degrades anything underneath them. There's also the pantyhose, tape, sock and other bindings. All useless. There. No fingerprints gonna be on a sock. And they have nothing on that. Basically, the cigarette butts outside the window, nothing there either. Nowadays you can get your DNA no problem, but in 1994, they're useless.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You'll know who his fucking grandfather is.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So the medical examiner found signs that this was an interrupted sexual assault. Oh, so that's why the underwear are torn and all that. He was about to. And bruising was consistent with the assault, but there's no DNA evidence, like semen. So they're like, he didn't finish. He got interrupted.

[Jimmy Whisman]

By the girls.

[James Petregallo]

By the girls. And they said everything that he had used came from inside the home. He brought nothing. There's no plan. He doesn't have a kill kit or anything like that? No murder weapon to trace? No. He didn't purchase anything that you could track a guy to later on? Nothing. So they have.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he's been smoking there and watching. So he knew the girls were there.

[James Petregallo]

He knew the girls were there, but I don't know if he thought that they would just stay away. And I don't understand it. So months go by. Tips trickle in. A lot of people think it's the relative, it's that Kevin guy. But the cops are like, it's not. So every few weeks people call in with a name and a memory of, I saw a guy in a red hat near the neighborhood and whatever. And everything went cold. Nothing was worth a shit. People started like, kids can't go to school on their own anymore. Parents have to walk them. The unlocking policy is over in this town.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Everybody's locking them up, closing them down. It's all about. It's wild. Everyone's just talking about what kind of alarm systems are getting and arming themselves. Then there's a woman named Lois Gibson. She is a sketch artist and by all accounts one of the best on earth, apparently.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

She holds the OR 1994. She held the Guinness World Record for most identifications by a forensic artist. I did not know that was a record.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That might be the most impressive record.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty cool.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck your long fingernails.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, fuck you and your creepy mustache that twirls around 17 times. Over 1,000 criminals were identified through her sketches. Wow. Pretty goddamn good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There was actually one guy who was a murderer who saw his sketch on the news and turned himself in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's too good. I'm never getting away with it.

[James Petregallo]

You nailed me. He's like, fuck, that's me, man. Jesus Christ. Shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who was it? The Night Night Stalker.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Well, that was by smell. We found a guy who smells like a goat. It must be him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was crazy, that whole thing. He's the only person on earth that that sketch looked like. It was crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Can't look like anybody else. So she was from this area? Apparently she moved to LA to be a model and a dancer. This sketch artist, she was attacked and almost killed by a rapist. So she went back to school to get a Bachelor of Fine Arts from University of Texas, then went to the FBI Academy Forensics Artist Course and became the Houston PD's Forensic Sketch Artist in 82.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She sounds amazing.

[James Petregallo]

She's pretty badass. So she sits down with Natalie. Ms. Lois Gibson. She uses an FBI sketchbook catalog of hundreds of facial features. 250 sets of eyes, 250 sets of noses, mouths, faces, shapes, hairlines, jaws. And they flip through all this shit looking for the features, right? So they build it piece by piece, starting with the hair and hairline and working down to the chin and jaw bone. It's how she does it, she said. She was careful with Natalie reminding her it's okay if she didn't know something, don't you know, just add enough together later. Yeah, we'll figure it out. But Natalie remembered everything she said. Long hair, dark and long enough to reach the ears. Red baseball cap, gauntlet face. And the eyes were a piercing blue. And that's a lot. So she said that children are often better witnesses than adults. This Lois said. She said adults second guess themselves. They overthink it. Children just tell you what they saw.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There it is.

[James Petregallo]

There it is. So the sketch is everywhere. It's on grocery stores, the post office, you name it. All over telephone poles. It's everywhere. Tips are pouring in. None of them lead anywhere for more than a year. Nothing happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

September 16, 1995. Janetta Jody McCown. She goes by Jody. She's 30 years old. She works the streets is what she does here in Wichita on South Broadway. She got into a car with a john in the early morning of September 16, 1995. Now, Jody has a life. She's not homeless or anything like that. She's got a boyfriend that she's very stable relationship.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's just how she pays for it all.

[James Petregallo]

It's just. Yeah, that's what she's doing at this moment. So she had a friend, another girl on the street here, who watched out for her. They looked out for each other. One get into a car, the other one would jot down the license plate number. And we've had this happen multiple times on the show.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, the Pretty Woman Kit, that's what she did.

[James Petregallo]

And we had it a few weeks ago on a show that happened, so. So anyway, her friend wrote down the license plate number. This was a man who approached Jody and offered $200 for an overnight stay, which was more than she even charges for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So it's a little strange. And her friend told Jody not to go, but Jody said, It's 200 bucks. I'm going. So she wrote down the license plate number. Now, Jody had also told her friend about a man who had been hanging around who was sitting in a car parked outside her friend's apartment looking for cocaine at one point. So that was the night before Jodi disappeared. So there's been a creepy guy hanging around. So they have the license plate number. This Jody never comes back. She disappears, gets in the car and never comes back. But they have the license plate number. And her friend calls the cops and says, my friend disappeared. There's the license plate number. So. So they trace the license plate. It comes back to a man named Matthew Murphy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stop it. Matt.

[James Petregallo]

Remember Matt?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Matt, you fucking.

[James Petregallo]

Did I get you another refill on that iced tea?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Who the police quickly discover is not even Matthew Murphy. What? It's actually a guy named Chester Higginbotham.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a wild name.

[James Petregallo]

That's why he went by Matthew Murphy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why did he do that?

[James Petregallo]

We'll talk about it. He lives in Newton, Kansas. Matthew Murphy, by the way, isn't just some bullshit identity. He has a driver's license, a marriage certificate. He works at his job under Matthew Murphy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's married under Matthew Murphy.

[James Petregallo]

His wife calls him Matt. His co workers call him Matt. Everybody calls him Matt. No one knows his name is Chester Higginbotham.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Chet, what's going on, buddy?

[James Petregallo]

Okay, so they had to. This was such a big identity that he had just two separate identities, but it's the same person. So he's born in 1965. He's been to prison before. He's had a messed up childhood, too. He tried to commit suicide at 8 and his alcoholic mother died when he was 13. And before he died, she would lock him in closets for long periods of time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what you do.

[James Petregallo]

Including during an entire Christmas vacation. He was locked in the closet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A two week vacation from school, he's

[James Petregallo]

locked in a closet. Locked in the closet. He's got a lot of petty crimes. Theft, car theft, burglary. He was currently on parole for burglary and forgery. Wow. Well, he was at the time of Rhonda's death, but not anymore. So the real Matthew Murphy was a young man in Arizona who died in November 1989 by being struck by a car when he was on his bicycle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He snatched it up.

[James Petregallo]

He was a guy from Tempe. The driver was a church pastor who was having a diabetic episode and lost control of the car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, fuck.

[James Petregallo]

A few months later, a driver's license was issued under Matthew Sean Murphy's name and date of birth, bearing a photograph of Chester. So he stole his identity. Wow. So they go to Chester's house. He's not home, but his wife Vicki is there. While they're talking to Vicki, Chester pulls up. Yeah. Chester pulls up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fake Matthew.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, fake Matthew. He approaches the officers, appears cooperative, offered to come to the station. They search his home and storage shed that he rented nearby where he would keep cars that he worked on. They were looking for signs that Jody had been there. They're only investigating Jody at this point, Right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the only thing they're thinking about right now.

[James Petregallo]

So his wife Vicky was born and raised in Newton, and she had no idea that his name was Chester Higginbotham whatsoever? None.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he's made himself like 10 years younger by doing that too.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. They met because she was a convenience store clerk when he started coming in, going by Matthew Murphy, buying soda and snacks and shit. And she said that he flashed a smile. That quote just did it for her, really just did. From behind that counter, Boy, that's all

[Jimmy Whisman]

that can get it in the glow

[James Petregallo]

of that green light. Giving you a total that'll be $7.42, that little light coming off right now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Partly why it's just reflect that. 7:38, man.

[James Petregallo]

Tell you what. So they dated for like six months. He proposed, they got married. She said everything was great. But then after a few months, he turned into a different person. An angry drunk, apparently. All right. She tells everybody, and others that know her say Vicky's very meek, so she never pushed back. Which is why he looked for someone like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's why he likes her. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. She told police that two nights before Jodi disappeared, Chester went out with a friend. He was supposed to be back by 10:30 or 11. That time came and went, she got worried, so she got in her car and drove to the storage shed, the place she knew Chester hung out sometimes doing work on cars. She pulled in and Chester came out, rushing out to greet her. She said as they talked, she could see through the car windshield in his car that there was a person in the front seat. A blonde female, slumped over and not moving.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She asked Chester, hey, who's your friend?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who's she? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, oh, it's a friend of a friend. Which is not. If that's your wife. If I told Sarah, okay, she was looking for me and she came looking for me and found me and there's some blonde chick slumped over in my car. I was like, oh, it's a friend of a friend. That wouldn't be the last question about that that we were talking about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is your friend Lap where she slumped over? Why is she there and why is she doing that?

[James Petregallo]

He said she had too much to Drink. So I'm taking her home in the shot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. She didn't. Vicki said the woman didn't move the entire time she's there. Didn't look up, didn't shift, didn't breathe as far as Vicky could tell. So Vicky left without asking any more questions.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She is meek.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is beyond meek.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. I mean, he could be fucking. He could be balls deep in a chick in the living room and he'd be like, oh, it's a friend of a friend, and we're doing this. Just go in the bedroom. I'll be there in a minute. She'd be like, okay, this is crazy. So Chester came home about 15 minutes later. They went to bed and never discussed it again. She never brought it up again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've never been in a relationship that. That wouldn't come up 12 times a day for the next 10 years until

[James Petregallo]

you had a satisfactory explanation for that. That's gonna keep coming up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There will be no sleep that night

[Jimmy Whisman]

unless a gift shows up for her that I needed that person to participate in me procuring. Said gift.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yes, dude, totally. So she didn't want to say anything there. For everyone who solves crime from their couch, knows more about forensics than their own job, and has trust issues with small town sheriffs. Amazon Music's millions of podcast episodes are calling. Just download the Amazon Music app and start listening to your favorite true crime podcasts ad free included with Prime. Small Town Murder is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. But potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Look at him, eating whatever he wants, never gaining a pound. Well, I'm stuck with the boring special and can't lose an ounce.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How's your lunch, man?

[James Petregallo]

Amazing. Yours?

[Jimmy Whisman]

So good.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, I'm so happy for you. Cool, buddy.

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[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

Now police go to the storage shed hoping to find Jody's body, but they don't. And by the way, Jody's blonde too, so that helps. So they find items that made it a little suspicious. They found nylon rope, duct tape, and zip ties in A storage shed. None of which are too zip ties can be. But most of them aren't too useful for auto repair.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now if you use a nylon roll for a minute, put something together, you're a shit mechanic.

[James Petregallo]

You're not doing it right. So this is. And the detective that saw this was like, oh shit. Bindings, tape, things that could be a ligature. This is pretty scary shit. Also they find out that Chester. Well not find out they're there. This is three blocks from Rhonda, by the way Chester lives.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, her house is right down the road.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he was, he used to be. At the time he lived in a halfway house three blocks away from Rhonda. He had moved to Newton and took a job as an assistant manager and a waiter who sometimes managed a local inn. And he had to walk past Rhonda's house every day on his way to work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He happened to be a smoker.

[James Petregallo]

James, let's find out about that. So they ask him about his identities. And Chester, it's ridiculous. He said that he changed his name from Higginbotham to Murphy because his ex wife had witnessed a gang related murder in Arizona and they had been placed in a government witness protection program.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There would be documentation about that, right?

[James Petregallo]

Not really. It's a federal. That's a closed door. So not a local police force. I don't know. They're not going to be able to get that. But, but his ex wife, his actual ex wife said, I knew him as Chester Higginbotham. He changed his name when they moved to Oklahoma. She said, I've never witnessed a murder and I'm definitely was never in the witness relocation program.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know why he's doing this.

[James Petregallo]

All a lie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Chester admits he picked Jodi up that night. He said he gave her $50 for go around. He said they drove around and then he dropped her off at the bus station in Wichita. Problem is, first of all, she lives in Wichita, so where's she going? Second, the bus station wasn't open at the time that he claimed he dropped her off there. When confronted about, well, Vicky, your wife said you had a blonde woman slumped over in the car. He said, no, no, no, that wasn't Jody. That was a different chick. Who?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tell us who.

[James Petregallo]

A different woman. So they were like, so you had two different blonde women in your car on the same night? And he goes, absolutely. They're like, oh, okay, sure. So they go get around. Yeah, you're under arrest for solicitation of prostitution anyway that you are under arrest. That's a way you can hold you for a minute?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Cause we don't want to let you go. But we can't charge you with anything yet, so. October 11, 1995, Jody's body is found decomposed and on the side of a rural road east of Newton. Severe decomposition. Identification was difficult. Her wrists and ankles were hogtied behind her. The core nylon, consistent with the type found in Chester's storage shed. Also that was used for that. The mouth was taped. And from what appeared to be the same roll found in the shed, the torn edge matched when they put them together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He hasn't even used that tape since then.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. So they said it was asphyxiation. The pose of the body, bound, gagged, beaten and discarded. Basically identical to how Rhonda was found, except in a house instead of on the side of the road. Detective Walton works both cases and said when he saw Jodi McCown's body, he said, holy shit. This is Rhonda. This is fucked up. Without him, it's the same killer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Without him, it doesn't connect.

[James Petregallo]

Both found with ligatures, hand and feet tied behind the back. They both had their mouths sealed. They both had indicators of sexual motivation without completed sexual assault. They were both controlled using materials found at the scene or brought in by the killer. Improvised restraints rather than a pre purchased thing or a kill kit or something like that. And both women were familiar to Chester before this happened. So with Rhonda, Chester was interrupted. The children, the doorbell, the phone, all that shit. So he had to kill her quickly and get out of there. With Jody, he had as much time as he wanted, right? He had her alone? No, he took her to the storage unit. He had all night is what he thought. And then Vicky showed up and fucked that one up, too. Now, the sketch is identical to him. The only difference is he has shorter hair now, but it's a fucking match. I mean, it's him. So police go back to Vicky.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they say, your husband's suspected of two murders now. And he said, let me ask you this. What kind of cigarettes does he smoke? Bingo. And it's the same kind, same brand, found outside the window.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is a problem. When you got yourself a taste for a specific cigarette. It's gonna get you every time.

[James Petregallo]

Yup. They said, did he wear sunglasses? And she said, yeah, aviators.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God, this man does not change shit. Except his name.

[James Petregallo]

They also found out he came to work the weekend after the murder with a swollen eye.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, she got him.

[James Petregallo]

She got him. Yeah, she's fighting back. And also when the composite sketches of the murder suspect were published in newspapers, Chester's co workers at the inn said that he made numerous comments that the police didn't know who they're looking for or what they were doing, and they'd never find the real killer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

October 25th, 1995. This is two weeks to the day after Jody's body is found. Vicki's marriage to Chester is annulled.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I judge she's done.

[James Petregallo]

She said that the marriage was a fraud. She didn't even know his real name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's not even married to. Yeah, it's not even him on the fucking certificate.

[James Petregallo]

96 is the trial for Jody. Cause the evidence was more recent and everything's cleaner and more recent. So they can't get him for the death penalty. Because apparently when this happened, Kansas didn't have the death penalty reinstated quite yet. So she's going to seek the hard 40 sentence, which is a minimum of 40 years without parole, which is hard. 40 is brutal. So they build the case on the rope, the tape, the zip ties, the matching duct tape. They also have the drawings. They found drawings in his residence, Chester's residence, of women. Including a drawing of a vagina and drawings that bore resemblance to Jodi. Including a matching tattoo that she had. What? Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sketched her tattoo. Drawing vaginas.

[James Petregallo]

Vicki testifies about the blonde in the car. The bus station lie, Chester admitting he picked Jodie up that night. The defense, all they had to argue was inconsistencies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not even what the vagina looks like.

[James Petregallo]

Look at it. I mean, he's got the clit on the bottom. You can't have that. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's all upside down.

[James Petregallo]

You'll be so confusing. The verdict is guilty of first degree premeditated murder and kidnapping.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

The judge says you, sir, may fuck off. Hard 40. 40 years mandatory for the murder, plus consecutive 49 months for the kidnapping.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so another four years.

[James Petregallo]

So another four years. He's got 40. A hard 44 this guy's got. He appeals in 98, but they affirm it. No reversible error. By the way, late 90s DNA technology is coming a long way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bingo.

[James Petregallo]

Now they can extract all sorts of shit. And the aviator sunglasses. Now I have a match.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They can almost tell whether or not you can draw a vagina by your DNA.

[James Petregallo]

By your DNA. He'd be piss poor drawing a vagina, let me tell you. So it's a 1 in 5.5 billion. It's Chester oh, fuck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's you, buddy.

[James Petregallo]

Unless there's some guy in Pakistan somewhere

[Jimmy Whisman]

that did it, man.

[James Petregallo]

Do somewhere. So the psychological reports are that he is consistent with an antisocial personality disorder. Calculated manipulation, lack of empathy, ability to maintain a convincing facade while committing horrific acts. His childhood had severe abuse. Locked in closets, beaten, subjected to horrible treatment. Shit that turned someone into this. So 1999 is the trial for Rhonda. He wants it moved. He wants the venue changed. But they say it's gonna be in Harvey County. The prosecutor's case is DNA all over the place. Sunglasses. How the fuck do your sunglasses get under the bed unless you were there? That's it. Also the evidence, the prior crime scene evidence, because they bring in his conviction for Jodi to show how he tied the girls, these women, and did the same thing to them. The bondage signature, the binding, the gagging. Detective Ken Landwerr of the Wichita Police Department said that the murders bore a signature of bondage. By the way, this is a guy who ended up was on the BTK case. Oh, this guy. Yeah. The defense challenges the DNA because back in the late 90s, people just didn't know what it was. So you could just be like, that's all bullshit. And people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, maybe they don't believe in science is what he thought. So the similarities between the two murders, the timeline. The defense's whole thing is there's a timeline that doesn't fit. He says 4am that day. This is the defense attorney. Hagenbotham rode his bike to the restaurant at 11.28am he cashed his paycheck, later paid his rent. Records at the halfway house indicate that he had checked in at 2:45pm and didn't leave till 4:45pm and then he went somewhere for about 30 minutes. So he said, how could he have murdered her between 2:30 and 4:15pm he said, I will ask you how it's possible for Mr. Higginbotham could have done what he's accused of doing in the time frame. Well, there's lots of ways, but it doesn't matter because there's DNA evidence that he did it. So he could have much more believe that he fudged his entry time going in. Probably written down with your initials or something rather than the fucking DNA is wrong. Vicky identified two pairs of sunglasses introduced as evidence that he wore all the time. When one came out, she said, oh, my God. He had sunglasses just like that. So that's that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

She also confirmed at the Time of Rhonda's murder. He was wearing a red hat with the Christian Jesus fish on it. The fish. The jury finds him guilty of premeditated first degree murder and kidnapping in the most obvious way possible. Here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He wore his favorite shit to the murder.

[James Petregallo]

To the murder. That's all the stuff that he had on because he wasn't planning. He just. I'm gonna stop by. I think he saw her in the window when he was walking by and was like, look at this bitch.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cigarettes. And did his thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So it's crazy. During sentencing, the Krebel family members, Rhonda's family said that, we understand you were raised in a shit environment, but it doesn't give you the permission to treat others that way. Right. Everybody else agreed. I mean, Jesus, the poor kids had to. The kids were given their impact statements. It's fucking horrible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They were given a crazy statement.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They showed a video presentation that Krebel's family made, splicing together snapshots of the woman with her children and husband with the words from the song We Are the Survivors, the national theme to the support group Parents of Murdered Children playing in the background. You just go, I give up, man. Fuck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is the people version of the aspca.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck. Yeah. The defense attorney says, what type of environment could be so horrible that an 8 year old would want to commit suicide? I just wonder sometimes where we go wrong. The judge said that's all handy and dandy and nice and everything, but this is an especially heinous, atrocious and cruel crime. And says we know that the first blow didn't put her out of her misery. You did more. You said may. Fuck off. Hard 40 again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Double hard 40. Hard 80.

[James Petregallo]

A hard 40 nine months after that, too. So he's got a hard 88 right now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hard 88 and over a half.

[James Petregallo]

That's rough. Also pay $21,272 in restitution.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy shit, too.

[James Petregallo]

Rhonda's sister said about the wife, because they wanted to say that we're not mad at Vicki. This is how nice these people are. They care that she feels bad. Like these people lost these nice people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Vicki's so meek.

[James Petregallo]

She said she was deceived like many others. She thought she married Matt Murphy. She could have been a victim. She could have been killed, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Isn't that the name of one of the best DA's in the history of DA's?

[James Petregallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Matt Murphy. Isn't that his name? The guy from la?

[James Petregallo]

No, that was. That wasn't that that asshole from the story in Northern California. The cop who didn't believe the people who were kidnapped. I think his name was Matt Murphy. I'm not positive, but I'm.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That may be another name too, but

[James Petregallo]

I think Murder the American Nightmare documentary.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is he blonde?

[James Petregallo]

I don't remember. It doesn't matter. We're almost done here. So we're way off the subject. 2001, he appeals for Rhonda's stuff. Doesn't matter. That's fucking. He can keep on fucking off. Chester is at the was. At last I saw Lansing Correctional Facility in Kansas. Served about 30 years of his consecutive sentences. He's not going to be eligible for parole pretty much ever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Up to now he served 30 years.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's still got 58 to go.

[James Petregallo]

Still got a long time to go. So there you go. Everybody there is Newton, Kansas. Wow. Bad. Bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great job, James. That's a fucking horrible great job.

[James Petregallo]

I'm real sad now. Terrific.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I wanna know what Kevin thinks about it.

[James Petregallo]

I know. Jesus, Kevin.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's sexy?

[James Petregallo]

Kev? Don't ask him. He'll just say something completely wrong. Hey, Kev, what do you think of 9 11? My dick was hard. I mean, Jesus, why do I say that? What is wrong with me?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why do I say so sensual weird

[James Petregallo]

shit about dead people? So anyway, shut up and give me murder.com head over there. Get your tickets for live shows. If you're listening to this right when it to comes comes out February 21st. Nashville, still some tickets available on that Saturday night. March 6th in Durham, March 7th in Atlanta, March 21st in Phoenix. For your stupid opinions. There's way more than those two. Get on shutupandgivememurder.com get on whatever app you're listening to this on and if you're not watching it, if you're listening to it and give us five stars. That helps a lot. Shut upandgivemerder.com is where you get your tickets. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or a bundle, you're gonna get everything. We put out huge catalog of back bonus episodes immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder. This week is no different. This week for crime and sports. Dead Cyclists, Part 2 Crazy Stories of people getting mauled on bicycles. Small town murder. Kurt Cobain's death and how the fuck that happened. And what are our. Everyone's got their own hard opinion on that. So we'll give ours out and see how that goes. There's been some new investigative things going on, so we'll see how that goes. Patreon.com crimeinsport and you get everything we put out ad free and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. Keep coming back and seeing us week after week. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and givememurder.com drop down menus take you where you need to go. That said, until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bye.

[James Petregallo]

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