Forest Serial Killer - Oak Grove, Oregon

Summary

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Small Town Murder – “Forest Serial Killer – Oak Grove, Oregon”

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Release Date: September 18, 2025
Case: The “Forest Serial Killer” a.k.a. Dayton Leroy Rogers
Setting: Oak Grove, Oregon (Portland suburb) and the surrounding forests

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Episode Overview

James and Jimmie embark on a harrowing yet darkly comedic exploration of Oak Grove, Oregon, home to a horrifying murder in 1987 that unraveled the case of one of Oregon’s worst serial killers: Dayton Leroy Rogers. The episode covers Rogers’ extremely abusive childhood, years of escalating violence, his double life as an upstanding businessman, and the eventual discovery of his secret forest graveyard. Throughout, the hosts use their trademark irreverence, balancing in-depth research and grim facts with sharp, self-aware humor.

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Episode Breakdown

1. Setting The Scene: Oak Grove, Oregon – [05:14]

• Oak Grove is a suburb just outside Portland, Oregon with "rough houses" and "lots of traffic problems," as the hosts riff on local reviews.
• Crime rates: Property crime above average, but violent crime is well below national average — "I think it's a neighborhood and an intersection, apparently with rough houses from what I hear." — James [08:41]
• Real estate is expensive, with median home prices near $440,000. Local events include a mysterious Oak Grove Festival and a folk music fest featuring recurring acts like Robin & Linda Williams ("he’s not dead, he’s hiding, that's what it was." — James, [15:55]).

2. The Attack At Denny’s – The Crime That Unraveled It All [18:50]

• August 7, 1987: Disabled man Charles Gates, “a legit hero,” witnesses a brutal attack in a Denny’s parking lot.
• Charles, confined to a wheelchair after a construction accident, rolls toward screams and finds a naked, bleeding woman with a man over her.
• "If you hear squeaking as your hero comes to get you, you’re like, ah, fuck. But at the same time, anybody is a great help." — James [20:39]
• Bystanders and Denny's patrons attempt to block the assailant’s escape as he flees in a pickup. A witness memorizes the license plate, leading police to Dayton Leroy Rogers.

3. Who is Dayton Leroy Rogers? – Childhood & Early Violence [25:45]

• Born in 1953, Dayton grew up with “a lunatic” father, Ortis, and an extremely religious household, often living in dire poverty (even in a chicken coop at one point!) [43:16].
• Ortis used extreme corporal punishment ("...sometimes wasn’t even for. They didn’t even know what was happening. Just out of nowhere, he would just attack one of the children in such an intense way..." — James [33:39]), and tightly censored all music, marking up any exposed skin on album covers with a marker ("He would draw clothes on their bodies with black felt pen so no flesh would be exposed except for faces and hands." — James [37:44]).
• Dayton grew up sexually repressed and developed a fixation on women’s feet—stealing his sisters’ shoes to masturbate as a child [45:10].
• By his teens, Dayton’s violence surfaces: shooting at cars with a BB gun, resisting authority, and resenting both parents [48:13].

4. Early Crimes, Legal System Failures, and Escalation – [54:01]

• Dayton rapidly escalates to sexual violence. At 19, while newly married, he picks up a 15-year-old hitchhiker, has sex with, and days later stabs her (“...will you marry me?” as she is bleeding out — [56:25]).
• Interrogation tapes show Dayton shifting stories—denying intercourse, then admitting it, blaming the “devil,” but later recanting again [66:16].
• Despite a pattern of repeated sexual assaults, including tying up, raping, and assaulting multiple teenage girls, he repeatedly avoids lengthy prison time due to plea bargains, psychiatric hospitalizations, or being acquitted altogether — “A murder case looking for a place to happen. Please put this guy away.” — [88:46]. He spends only about 2½ years in prison out of a five-year sentence.

5. The “Normal” Years: Double Life in Suburban Oregon [91:53]

• Rogers remarries, opens a successful small engine repair business in Woodburn, becomes a father, and is “reliable and polite” to neighbors (“...the kind of guy you trust with your equipment…” — [94:27]).
• His wife, Sherry, is oblivious, though she hears rumors he hangs out in bars. Rogers claims late nights and high odometer readings are just work-related.
• By night, he cruises Portland’s red-light districts, picking up sex workers under the pseudonym “Steve the Gambler from Nevada,” paying extra, and developing a pattern: vodka-and-OJ screwdrivers, foot fetishes, escalating to bondage and knife play [102:26].

6. The Forest Graveyard: Discovery and Investigation [110:42]

• After Rogers murders Jennifer Lisa Smith in the Denny’s parking lot, evidence (bloody knife, bandaged hand, hot engine, and blood in truck) ties everything to him [114:06].
• August 31, 1987: Bow hunter Everett Banyard stumbles upon a partially buried nude body in remote Molalla Forest, which leads police on a grisly search.
• Eventually, seven bodies are found, each with signs of extreme violence—many with no clothing, bound with makeshift materials, mutilated, and some with feet sawed off (a unique and disturbing detail leading to the nickname “The Molalla Forest Killer”). (“We got two women and one foot. We got a problem.” — James [131:41])
• The clusters and victim backgrounds convince authorities for a time the Green River Killer may have struck here, but the signature is different—especially the focus on feet.

7. Rogers' Modus Operandi & Survivors [146:43]

• Rogers typically pays the women, takes them into remote woods, indulges in hours of violent sexual sadism (usually involving feet), and murders those who resist violently.
• Survivors testify that if they gave up—“just kill me”—he’d lose all interest and let them go. (“...he has to threaten them, okay? Which is real fucking weird… They all say if they fight, that's when he's into it. If they stop and just go limp, he completely stops. He's done.” — James [99:15]).
• Physical evidence: blood, hair, orange juice bottles, mini vodka bottles, and burned women’s clothing and bra clasps in his shop’s woodstove, all tightly link Rogers to the murders.

8. Trial(s), Defense, and Aftermath [153:14, 154:15, 162:06]

• At trial for the murder of Jennifer Smith, his lawyer argues the killing was self-defense—claiming she tried to rob him naked at knifepoint (“...if a prostitute is going to rob a customer...What is she supposed to have said? 'Mr. Rogers, take the knife for a minute so I can get my clothes back on and get away?'” — Prosecutor [162:01]). Rogers himself testifies with outlandish self-defense stories.
• Jury deliberates for two weeks, ultimately convicting him, but opt against the death penalty—granting life with possibility of parole after 30 years, believing his killing wasn’t proved to be deliberate or that he posed a continuing threat [162:48].
• For the forest murders, an all-female jury convicts him. Eleven women testify about surviving his attacks; forensic evidence is overwhelming. Rogers is sentenced to death.
• But his death sentence is overturned and reinstated multiple times, due to appeals and changing laws—costing Oregon taxpayers millions, and putting victims’ families through decades of legal agony.
• As of the episode’s release, all Oregon death sentences have been commuted to life without parole.

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Key Moments & Quotes

Standout Quotes

• On the killer’s childhood:
  “He would draw clothes on their bodies with black felt pen so no flesh would be exposed except for faces and hands.” — James [37:44]

• On police blowing the arrest:
  “His answer is, quote, next time, I won't leave a witness.” — James [90:18]
  “And they said, well, parole granted!” — (sarcastically, on the parole board’s cluelessness) [90:39]

• On the disturbing foot fetish:
  “If you didn’t draw fucking parkas on the Hawaiian girls, he could have jerked off to that and not had to find something weird to jerk off to.” — James [46:20]

• On evidence in his shop:
  “They end up finding bra clasps from 15 different bras. Just gonna say she's not wearing 15 bras. She’d have to have 30 tits for that, right? 30 tits. She’d need the 30 titted woman.” — James & Jimmie [120:14]

• On the serial killer's “signature”:
  “What is the ultimate act of dominance for him to remove that foot? We submit that's what happened in the Molalla Forest.” — Prosecutor [167:38]

Notable Timestamps

• [20:39] – Charles Gates rolls into action to try to help the screaming victim in the Denny’s lot
• [54:01] – Early violent sexual assaults, repeated parole failures
• [91:53] – Rogers opens his own business and becomes a family man
• [102:26] – Details of his violent sexual fantasies and interactions from nearly 33 surviving women
• [110:42] – Night of murder at Denny’s, pursuing evidence, and attempts to clean up
• [127:14] – Discovery of Molalla Forest body, and the subsequent finding of multiple bodies
• [153:14] – Survivors provide crucial insight: fighting results in attacks, surrender can mean survival
• [154:15] – Prosecution lays out the pattern; defense claims self-defense
• [162:06] – Verdict, jury confusion, frustrations (“12 reasonably intelligent adults... couldn't decide whether he's guilty in two weeks”)

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Thematic Takeaways

• Systemic Failures: The episode hammers on repeated failures of the legal and parole system to keep Rogers in prison, with several comic but furious asides about the incompetence ("We always see that too. In a lot of our stories. You'll have somebody in a family whose family adopted a bunch of kids and it really pissed one of the kids off good. And they ended up being an asshole." — James [26:29]).
• Victim Vulnerability: Most of Rogers' victims are sex workers or vulnerable women, underscoring society’s disregard and the police’s initial slow response.
• Killer’s M.O.: A combination of sexual repression, violent sadism, and an obsession with feet becomes the “signature” connecting all the crimes.
• Community Impact: The case leaves a deep scar on Oak Grove, Portland, and beyond, with families and survivors reliving the trauma through decades of legal wrangling. Rogers' refusal to confess to other murders raises chilling doubts about more victims.

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Conclusion

This episode exemplifies Small Town Murder’s strengths: razor-sharp, humane comedy in the face of horror, exhaustive research, and a refusal to sugarcoat the failures that allow predators to flourish. The case of Dayton Leroy Rogers leaves haunting unanswered questions—and reinforces that even everyday heroes, like Charles Gates, can make a small difference in horror stories we hope are mostly over.

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For listeners:
If you have a taste for true crime mixed with bleak, irreverent humor and want a thorough breakdown of one of Oregon’s worst serial murder cases—along with cautionary tales about parole boards—this episode is a must.

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“He was more evil than any of us could possibly imagine. Once all the cards were on the table, we could see something that was just monstrous.”
— Charles Gates [184:21]

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed. Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. This is crazy stuff that we have here. This is one of those where when we're all done, we go and how many more are out there? It's a lot and it's crazy. And yeah, this guy was so off the chain that people thought it was the Green River Killer doing this for a long time. Wild stuff. We'll get to all that and more. First of all, shut up and give me murder dot com. Get in there today. Get your tickets for live shows. First of all, Seattle in October and mid October at the Moore. Get your tickets for that that's available. All the ones before that are sold out. Then get your tickets for the virtual live show. Hey, the Thursday before Thanksgiving is the virtual live show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You mean Halloween?

[James Petregallo]

Did I say Thanksgiving? I did Halloween. Virtual live show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm so hungry, James.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. I just want turkey before Halloween. Virtual live show and it'll be just like a regular live show except we'll be wearing costumes and you can be anywhere in the world that you want to watch this and it'll be available for two weeks afterwards to watch it. So if you buy it, you can watch it 100 times. Do whatever you want with it. Shut upandgivemerder.com Also, get yourself some Patreon. Do yourself a favor. Anybody, $5 a month or above. You're gonna get so much. First of all, hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week, including this week when you're going to get for crime and sports, which you'll have access to. Of course. We're going to talk about the Kermit Washington story, which is this crazy fight that happened in the NBA in the 70s, almost killed a guy and just their lives were completely changed from this incident. It's a wild incident. Precipitate then for Small Town murder, we are going to talk about the history of executions in the United States. That was the one that you chose Ted Bundy over, but it was close. So we'll do that one then. It's gonna be great stuff. That is patreon.com crimeinsports and on top of that, you also get all of our content. Crime in sports, your stupid opinions and Small Town murder. All the shows all ad free on Patreon as well. And you get a shout out at the end of the show too. We'll do that for you. Another little show note, stay tuned for Friday's express episode because we have something very, very special for you. Something we've never. So tune in and check it out. For sure. Don't miss it. It's a lot of fun. It's gonna be fun. It's a really, really fun story and a really, really fun thing that happened. So check that out and hang out with us. That said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. We're gonna make jokes. It happens. People are certainly gonna die because it's a show called Small Town Murder. Here's the thing though, what you do is we never make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why's that, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes. Yeah, but, but we're not scumbags that there. So I mean, there's plenty to make fun of here. We make fun of a small town because we're all from some small town that's easily made fun of. Who cares? That's just good fun. And we like to make fun of murderers because we don't really have much other recourse. It's not like we can go put them in jail or something. So we have to make fun of them, and that's what we do here. So that sounds good to you. You're gonna hear a wild story, really crazy stuff. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be for you. That's possible. But I think maybe you should give us a chance. Either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs here. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murmur. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. All right.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are going to Oregon this week, which we will be going there next month to go to Portland to do a show. So we can't wait for that. And Seattle's the next night. We're going to Oak Grove, Oregon, which is in northwestern Oregon. It's a Portland suburb here. It's about 20 minutes to Portland. So right outside Portland, about 4 hours and 15 minutes to our last Oregon episode. That was in Weimer, Oregon. That was the Pig Farm Murders. Remember that? With the Heejeebee Gees. That guy gave me the Heeji Bee Gees. I get the Heeji Bee Gees all the time. That was a crazy episode. This is in Clackamas county, area code 503 and 971. The little bit of history here. It was named at the suggestion of a guy named Edward Cornell, who was a guy. He was a member of the surveying party that was platting the town site. They were sitting in an oak grove for lunch, and he said, a fine grove of oak trees in the northwest part of the tract. And he said, we should name this place Oak Grove.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There it is.

[James Petregallo]

That's what it was. So it was platted in 1890, and that's what ended up happening here. They showed. Apparently they put a trolley in in 1893 and all this. The weird thing is the railroad station was originally named center. And there was another station in St. Teresa that was named Oak Grove. So they literally had to try to. How do we switch this? You get this and we get that. And so the post office department changed the name of the post office to Oak Grove. And the center railroad station was changed to match. And then the Teresa one had to change theirs because it was already taken. Ridiculous. They fight over names and who's gonna be the county seat. Crazy stuff. Reviews of this town. Let's find out what other people think about here, because we've never been here before. I don't know anything about it. Here we go with four stars. I love my neighborhood. Good, that's nice. I moved here when I was in seventh grade and I've seen it grow so much just in the past five years. The sense of community in my neighborhood is so incredibly strong and comforting. The relationships I've nurtured with my neighbors are relationships I'll cherish years after I move.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Why are you planning on moving if it's so great? The neighborhood? Yeah, just the neighborhood. Why don't you just stay there if you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, sounds great.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Why are you going to move? I don't understand that. Here's three stars. Very short and sweet, inexpensive cost of living and close to the river. Yeah, yeah. It's not really that inexpensive as we'll talk about there. And then three stars. Here we go. A lot of the people this. I don't know what this person's talking about. A lot of the people who live in the area are from a very rough or live in a rough house. Rough house, what is that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

The rough house.

[James Petregallo]

Barely constructed. Just a lean to. What are we talking? Roughhouse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's just framed. That's it.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Many come from a background of violence, but have chosen to become the. And then in quotes, better person.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. The neighborhood also has a lot of traffic problems at the intersection. I have no idea what you're talking about, except for that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is this town just a neighborhood?

[James Petregallo]

I think it's a neighborhood and an intersection, apparently with rough houses from what I hear. That said Population of this town, 17,382. It's very big for a big, not small.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the biggest neighborhood I've ever heard of.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, no, it's a town decent size. I mean, that's a good sized town. More men than women in this town, which is not normal in the population here. It's about 50.8% men. Median age here is a few years above the national average. It's about 42 and a half family. Here it is just below the average. It's usually 50, 50 for married. And here it's 46.6%. A lot of average stuff. It's kind of an average suburb race of this town, 86.4% white, 1.8% black, 1.3% Asian, 7.7% Hispanic. Religion in this town normally 50, 50 in the rest of the country. Here it is 29.6%. So much less here. And it's spread around pretty good. The highest concentration of a faith is the other Christian. So I don't know what that is? I'm not sure exactly. Not sure what that means exactly or what that encompasses. But other Christian other than the ones they listed like Pentecostal and Methodist and Presbyterian and all that. The unemployment rate here is just about average. Median household income here is just about average too. It is $68,344 a year, which is $1,000 less than the national average. Problem is the cost of living here is pretty damn high. 100 is regular average in the country. Here it is a 134 out of a hundred.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty expensive. And the housing is the most expensive thing. Median home cost here, wow. 439,800 bucks. Pricey, someone said. Oh yeah, it's cheap to live here. It is not cheap to live here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In comparison to what? Malibu island?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. Maybe Portland itself. Like Portland property. I know Portland's really expensive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It is, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So I guess it's cheap compared to living in the city. Maybe. I'm not sure. But if you want to figure it out, we have for you the Oak Grove Oregon real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here goes for 1740 bucks. So that is pricey.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Incredibly steep.

[James Petregallo]

500 high. 500 high, exactly. Here's a house that is. It's a three bedroom, two bath, 1312 square feet. Just a nice little raised ranch, two car garage attached, that sort of thing. Not bad. It's on a small lot, not even, you know, a quarter of an acre or anything like that. Pretty big driveway inside. I don't like the carpeting, but they have a nice fireplace in the living room.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

$390,000 for that though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, I'll show you a picture. It is, it's not, I mean it's, you know, it's fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

400 grand.

[James Petregallo]

It's, you know, it's built in 1973 and it looks like it and it's not that big and it's 400 grand. So that seems like a little steep. And here is one. A three bedroom, one bath. Again, same thing. 1320 square feet. It's nice hardwood floors. The lot's a little bit bigger, but again, not even a quarter acre. It's fine, but it's not amazing. $489,000 for this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My word.

[James Petregallo]

For a very average 1300 square foot house with no property. Yeah, that is steep. That seems really, really steep. And then finally here. Move on in everybody. A four bedroom, four bathroom, 5477 square foot house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And this is one of These very modern here. I'll show you super modern with all you know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

It looks like a new McDonald's is what it looks like. You know, it's like all gray and industrial. That's kind of what the house is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's just a 2 car.

[James Petregallo]

That looks like a 2 car that they have there. Yeah, nothing bigger than that. But this house is $2,999,990.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So that's steep.

[James Petregallo]

Pricey this place. This is expensive, this joint. It really is here. So that said, things to do in this town. Okay, let's find out. The Oak Grove Festival. Now I tried, I looked and I fought long and hard to find things about the Oak Grove Festival. They talk about it constantly, but they won't tell you anything about it. Essentially I don't understand it. It just says it's back and better than ever. And it says 11am to 4pm A lively day packed with food, music, fun and local flavor. That's all I can find on this damn thing. And everywhere it's listed, that's the description they have. They just sent the press release out and they did it. Now something that's a little more covered is the Oak Grove Folk Music Festival. Oh, here we go. All sorts of folk people, I suppose. I don't know who any of these people are. Mojo Parker.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Never heard of him.

[James Petregallo]

Don't know Mojo. I don't know Mojo.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I got no Mojo.

[James Petregallo]

Patty Larkin, Barry's sister. She's got something going on. I don't know. There's also a Saturday morning jam where it says old time folk and bluegrass jam. Bring your instruments, bring it. Just ever. Just some people fiddling out on the lawn there. That's going to be. The whole town's going to fiddle it up. Bill Evans, Banjo in America. Yeah, that's a band. Shelton and Williams, which sounds like a very popular 90s country act. I could see. You know Shelton and Williams, right? Yeah, they got the best. Huge man. Then they have Mel Lee's open mic on stage. Okay. And it says that's at 4:45. Share your talent and your music with the Oak Grove audience. So it's open mic night over here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then at 7:30 the evening concert begins. Here we go with the Honey Dew Drops.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

Man, I remember when I was a kid I just have posts, just posters all over my wall of the Honey Dew Drops. And just man, idolized them, hoped I could meet them someday. Here we are talking about them. John McEwen and the Circle Band. Okay. And that Bleeds right into the next morning, where they have the Sunday morning song circle. Bring your instrument, Rise up. Singing books. Sing along. Listen and be inspired. I guess like a church. Sing along. Sunday morning. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And then an afternoon concert with a different thread. Don't know who that is. And then closing it out. Robin and Linda Williams. Now that I pay for. Robin Williams is back, everybody. And he's singing folk music in Oregon. He's not dead. He's hiding. That's what it was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's not dead, lady. He's hiding.

[James Petregallo]

Let me tell you something. He's not dead. He's hiding. That's what he's doing up there. He decided that he wanted to cash. He's tired of all this fame and fortune.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he said Pacific Northwest is where it's at.

[James Petregallo]

I just want to start over and just do a little folk band with Linda, who is, I assume, his wife. I don't know. It's funny, too, because I looked up, they had the other lineups from this last year's lineup had Robin and Linda Williams. They're fucking stalwarts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Staple. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The Robbie Folks Trio. F U L K S. That's the Robbie Fucks Trio. He fucks the whole trio. Lucy Kaplanski. That's a great stage name. And my name's Petra Gallo. And I'm telling you that you need to change your name. That's terrible. Kablansky sounds worse. David Wilcox. The Furnace Mountain Band.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Whole mountain full of furnaces. The Flybirds. Valerie McQueen and E. Brandon Collins. And then the year before, they had Robin and Linda Williams.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They are. Wow.

[James Petregallo]

You can't have a festival without them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is their jam.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Then there's Dar Williams. Not sure if they're related to Robin and Linda. Scott Miller. The Red Volkart Trio. Presley Barker with Luke Barker. She's bringing Luke. Oh, I didn't realize Luke was coming. Karen Savaka and Pete Heintzman. That's a band name. Karen Savaka and Pete Heintzman. How about you two get together and come up with a name for the two of you to perform under? Like a band name?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody can figure. Nobody can Google that.

[James Petregallo]

No. It would be hilarious if the Beatles were just called John Lennon. George Harrison. Ringo Starr. Paul McCartney. That would be the band name, not the Beatles. That's the name of them. Jacob's Ferry Stragglers. That's Ferry, not fairy. Alex Arbaugh and Crystal Archermont. Armentrout. What the fuck does that mean? What are you doing? And of course, Buddy Thomas, to make it easy for us. That said, crime rate in this town, weird crime rate. Property crime is a good amount above the national average. Really, it's about 20% high. But then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is under the average by about one third.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why do you suppose that is?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. People, teenagers, vandalism, I'm not sure, but I mean, that's strange. Usually the property and the violent crime kind of go with each other together. But some of these towns like this, you'll get that. Like a college town, that happens a lot because there's a lot of kind of, you know, guy pissing in the alley type of crimes that happen. Or broken window because two idiots got in a fight and broke a car window or something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The dumb shit.

[James Petregallo]

The dumb shit, yeah. That said, let's talk about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go, some murder.

[James Petregallo]

And we are gonna come in hot here. August 7, 1987. Let's go back to. Here we go. There's a man named Charles Gates. Yeah, let's talk about him now. Charles Gates. He'd been out late this night. It was a friend's birthday and he was out at the friend's birthday party, hanging out. Now Charles is a disabled guy. He's confined to a wheelchair. And he had a construction accident about five years earlier.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

So that really sucks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To get mangled in a way that's not even like doing something you enjoyed, you know what I mean? It's not like he was snowboarding and he fucking went headfirst into a pine tree and now he's in a wheelchair and he was like, oh, but that was a great. That was a great run, though. On the way down, when the wind was blowing through my hair, boy, I said, if my life ends right now, I'd be fine with it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm alright.

[James Petregallo]

This guy's at work doing construction and gets hurt this bad. That's horrible. That's a shit way to go. But he's been in this wheelchair for five years and navigating himself through it, what he does, he'll go out at night and hang out with his friends and do stuff and kind of every night, and this is late at night, middle of the night, he will go to Denny's because he lives nearby and get a hot chocolate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right?

[James Petregallo]

It's become his kind of little ritual here, you know what I mean? He has a hot chocolate, then he goes home and relaxes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fair enough.

[James Petregallo]

So he just got to the Denny's on this evening. And he just got himself into his chair and everything like that and was ready to wheel himself inside of the Denny's. And then he heard something. He heard a woman screaming.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

So he wheeled himself toward the direction of the screaming, which, I gotta say, that's a lot of balls.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What a hero. But if you're the victim of anything.

[James Petregallo]

Like that, your hero is the guy you want to call. Shit. If you hear squeaking as your hero comes to get, you're like, ah, fuck. But at the same time, anybody is a great help. And maybe this guy is like the. You know, like the world bench press champion. And he's. He can twist somebody into a pretzel. Who knows, you know, you don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or the world record holder for the fastest police call.

[James Petregallo]

I'm gonna. There's that too. Well, no. He wheels himself over there, okay. And he sees a naked woman lying in the parking lot and blood all over the place. On top of this woman is a man kneeling over her. Now, Charles doesn't know if this guy is the cause or is helping or is helping. Yeah. Did he just get there quicker because he's not in the chair? Who knows? So then the guy who is kneeling over her gets up and runs away at top speed. So Charles goes, well, that's probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably not the helper.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody that's up to something. So he's got good upper body strength because he's been in this chair for five years. And he saw the guy flee, sees the woman on the ground, and he wheels on over to this woman and he said, quote, I just did what needed doing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What'd he do?

[James Petregallo]

Went over to the woman. He reached this woman. He basically kind of like dove halfway out of his wheelchair to try to help her because she's bleeding everywhere. There's blood all over. He can't even tell where the wounds are, there's so much blood.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He can see at one point her throat's been cut, which is obviously a bad sign. And he sees just holes everywhere. Stab wounds all over her torso, abdomen, all over the place. Now, he had been trained in first aid some years ago, and he remembered some of it. So he felt her. There was no pulse and no breathing at this point, but he had heard screaming 30 seconds earlier. So he started CPR. He started doing mouth to mouth, chest compressions, all of this shit. Then he called 911 as well, or he called to the people, started to gather around from the Denny's. Because if you're sitting inside one of those big Denny's windows. And you see this going on in the parking lot. You might mosey on out and see what's happening. So he yells out, my God, he slit her throat. Someone call 911.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now they think the guy with the chair did it?

[James Petregallo]

No, he yells that to them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, okay, Got it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's given. And then he's giving her CPR afterwards from his wheelchair.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thought the people coming out of Denny's screamed it. All right, good.

[James Petregallo]

So at this point, there are people crowd gathering from Denny's. There's a couple guys named Stan Connor and Richard Burgio, and they just finished eating at Denny's, and they were walking to their cars when they heard all this going on. And at the same time, they see that happening. Oh, my God, he slit her throat or whatever. Call 911. They see a man heading for a small pickup truck, A little dark colored Nissan. And someone shouted, that's him. That's the son of a bitch that stabbed her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There he is. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So these two guys get in their cars and try to block the exits. Oh, with their cars. They park their car sideways in front of the exit so this guy can't get out is how it is. But the pickup truck just drives over the sidewalk and landscaping and, you know, they're not really. If you just stab somebody, the rules of the road and not wanting to run over the azaleas growing out in front of the Denny's is probably not high on your mind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably don't care.

[James Petregallo]

Probably don't give a shit. So at that point, they watched the guy drive away, and Richard Burgio said it and gunned it and started chasing the guy. All right, he chased him. They're going 100 miles an hour very quickly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

100 through Milwaukee.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gladstone, get a license plate and let it go, man.

[James Petregallo]

Dude, Oregon City can be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

It got to the point where he was almost out of gas. This Burgio, he's like, fuck, I was gonna stop after I wasn't prepped for a chase today. Yeah, I didn't know I was gonna do 100 mile an hour chase. So before he pulls off the chase, he gets the license plate number of this truck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the answer.

[James Petregallo]

That's which. I mean, could be a stolen car. Who knows?

[Jimmy Wissman]

But at least you know something. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So it was Oregon plate number CYW194. He has that. He calls 911 and he says, you know, I'm the guy from the Denny's and I got A license plate number. And I chased the guy, gave the description of the car. So they get the license plate and they run the license plate and it comes back to a man named Dayton Leroy Rogers. Dayton, just like the city. Dayton Leroy Rogers was born September 30, 1953. So he's about 34 at this point in time. Almost 34. He also goes by the name Steve the Gambler.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Steve the Gambler.

[James Petregallo]

Steve the Gambler, Yeah, yeah. He's also a joker and a smoker and a midnight toker. This fucking guy. Yeah. Steve the Gambler, he goes by. It's cooler than Dayton Leroy, I guess. Steve the Gambler. So little background on old Dayton, the guy they were chasing here. Actually a lot of background on him. He is quite an interesting fella here. Okay. He is the youngest of three children in his family. He's from Moscow, Idaho. That's where he was born. Now he's the youngest of three natural born children to the family. But the family is then going to adopt four more kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They got seven and adopted four.

[James Petregallo]

Adopted four. And that pissed them off good. And we always see that too. In a lot of our stories. You'll have somebody in a family whose family adopted a bunch of kids and it really pissed one of the kids off good. And they ended up being an asshole. So he's got a wild life. His family's going to move very frequently. His father is a lunatic. His father's out of his mind. Ortis Noble Rogers is his father. Ortis O R T I S Ordis. Didn't know that one. Never heard it before. Both his parents are known as zealous members of the Seventh Day Adventist faith.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really into it.

[James Petregallo]

They're real into it. Like that's all they're about. And we'll talk all about it here. He's got two biological sisters, his two older sisters, three adopted sisters and an adopted brother. Okay, so altogether five sisters and a brother. That's what he's got. Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about some delicious cereals from Magic Spoon. Magicspoon.com oh, I love cereal, Jimmy, you know that? I have. I'm a cereal aficionado.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our SafeST sponsor, SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

That'S right. We want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here. I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break in and the guy would get scared and, oh, God, people are going to hear this and they run away and maybe get your neighbor's attention. But that's pretty reactive. I mean, things are already happening by that time. An intruder is in your home, it's too late. You've heard small Town murder. You're listening to it right now. It's way too late. If someone's in your home, you're already dead. So we can't have that. That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So Ortis, and this is an odd thing, his dad, Ortis, didn't like kids. No, no. So you want to have three and then adopt four more when you don't like them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Any strays inside?

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ, man. I hate dogs. I'm going to the pound to pick a couple up and take them home with me. Be the weirdest thing to do, wouldn't it? So anyway, yeah, he doesn't even like his own kids, never mind the adopted kids. He didn't even want to have kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't want them at all. The mother though, Dayton's mother and Ortis wife, Jasper El is her name.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jasper El.

[James Petregallo]

Ortis and Jasper El are the parents. Okay. And they named Dayton. Anyway, she loved the kids and loved being a mother and a homemaker. And that was her jam, man. She really, really liked it. And it was her decision to adopt more kids all the time. Keep adopting kids. Now, Ortis, his role is basically go out and work and bring money home and, you know, if you don't want to deal with the kids, you really don't have to. And he basically, it was a lot to try to keep a roof over their heads and food because seven kids, there's a lot to support. So yeah, they move constantly. Constantly. They're on the move multiple times a year. They're moving. And not just to a different house, to a different town, different school district. So imagine having to enroll seven kids in school every couple months. Oh my God, that sounds like a goddamn nightmare. And this also makes it so the kids only know each other pretty much. They don't have outside connections because they're not there long enough to get any kind of deep connection. So it's so insular when you move around like this. You're like a band that's on the road for 80 straight days. You're just in yourself. Yeah. You don't even know anybody else. So. So Ortis is a big disciplinarian. Big into that. Always punishing people. Corporal punishment, any kind of punishment. And we're talking sometimes wasn't even for. They didn't even know what was happening. Just out of nowhere, he would just attack one of the children in such an intense way. I mean, he'd leave him in a puddle on the ground and bruised and beaten with blood coming out of them and shit. Out of nowhere. No one expects it. He just attacks. Somebody starts savagely beating them. Never would offer an explanation or even go talk to the kid later and tell him what they did wrong. In his mind, anything. He was just. That was it. You got a beating and then he walked away. Like, you know, like you know what happened. You owed him a hundred bucks. You should have given it to him. Like he's, you know, a gambler. He's a degenerate gambler they left on the floor. So he never apologized. And the children never knew whether the punishment was for what they did or if he was just a sick fuck. But that'll keep you on edge a lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that'll make you be expecting the next shoe to drop.

[James Petregallo]

That's a whole house full of on edge right there. One of Dayton's brother in laws, now this is a guy who married one of his sisters and this guy will later become a minister. He said, I saw Dayton punished almost every time I was in the house. I saw him hit with a belt, slapped and punched. Every time I visited with the family, it seemed like there was some kind of punishment.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Huh.

[James Petregallo]

So, I mean, either Dayton is just. What could he possibly do as a child to draw that kind of ire, you know, unless he's, you know, going out raping people or something. I can't imagine why you would beat your child savagely like that. That just doesn't make any sense. So on one occasion, this man recalls that young Dayton was forced to. To sit in a chair while Ortis punched his legs with his hands and fists, quote, unquote. So he said, you sit here and I'm gonna beat your legs. Which is a weird punishment. And the guy also said the weird thing was Ortis would do this and he'd beat these kids and then he would like hurt his hand. And then everybody had to have sympathy for him. Yeah. Cause everyone had to like, tend to him and make sure he was okay because he hurt his hand from beating children too much. It's ridiculous. Dayton would just sit there and take it. He never fought back. He never tried to run away. He just took it. The brother in law said he wouldn't even move his hands to protect himself. He'd just take the beating, which is wild. He also had a real weird. Lot of weird thoughts about sex. Ortis, obviously, as you can imagine. If he's this kind of controlling lunatic.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hate that. They know that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He would continually preach to his kids that, wow, that they all had an evil entity inside of them living. And that's sex drive. That's an evil entity. Oh, just like a little demon. Picture it with like a. Just a little demon with like a. You know, with like a bondage mask on, basically. That's how you can. That's how you know that one from the other demons. He's got like a whip and a bondage mask. Oh, that must be that demon. Okay. So he would say that it was always living in them and he tells them that he's attempting to remove it by basically constantly pumping the Bible into them. He said, I'm doing this to remove the sex demon that lives in you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

That's why we're spending the entire night doing this instead of anything else all the time. So it was a lot for the kids and that's. It's just a lot. He also sent them to Seventh Day Adventist schools and all of that kind of deal. So I mean, just tries to immerse them in religion so they won't have a sex demon in them. He also would censor shit. Like he makes North Korea look loose with the censorship. It's wild. He was. He'd have to approve everything that was watched, read or listened to in the house. I have to approve it personally. No, it's crazy. He went so far. This is fucking nuts. Ortis was a big. This is ridiculous. We were talking like in the 60s when all that Hawaiian shit was popular.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He loved Hawaiian music.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Which was hugely popular back then.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ukuleles. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He loved the Hawaiian records. So he had a bunch of Hawaiian records. But. But on the covers of the Hawaiian records, you know what the covers look like, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chicks with grass skirts doing hulu shirts in grass skirts.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Hawaiian stuff. He would draw clothes on their bodies with black felt pen so no flesh would be exposed except for faces and hands.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And a pantsuit for this one.

[James Petregallo]

And a burqa for you. There you go. So that is insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's gone too far.

[James Petregallo]

If you're a kid too. Right. You're a kid looking to whack it. Okay. At that age and pre Internet too. We're talking. This is in the 60s, so we're talking. You don't even have a Playboy. Was like a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Visual aids are few and far. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There's no porn movies. There's none of that shit. You can't just look somebody up on your phone and get a picture of their tits like it's none of that shit. This is like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're a visual guy. It's tough for you.

[James Petregallo]

You can whack it to a hula album. You can do it like back then. You're taking the only outlet I have to whack it and you're covering it up with a black felt pen. Not cool. Not cool at all. But that's the kind of control he wants to have on you. Is that when visitors, people come over, they'd ask about that, why did you do. Because he'd like, I'll play some albums. And he'd do it and they'd be like, why are all the women wearing snowsuits? I don't understand this. Aren't they Hawaiian? What's going on? Super weird. He would say, oh, those women are sluts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's why it's part of the music, man.

[James Petregallo]

Why part of the culture? They're on a beach, for Christ's sake. What do you want them to do?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Robert Palmer, they're on the beach.

[James Petregallo]

What do you want from them? It's very beach appropriate outfit. So he said the women were sluts and he would not tolerate such a display of pornography in his house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pornography?

[James Petregallo]

Pornography. A woman in a grass skirt is pornography.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A woman exercising her culture, mind you, that's just Hawaiian. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is part of the culture. It's not a Hawaiian orgy. It's just go to the beach and you know, it's fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He did like the music, though. He said, I like the music.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Not these whores on the COVID These trumpets and harlots over here. Can't take that. I don't know if that's going to. I don't see how that's going to help. Like the kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, that's.

[James Petregallo]

It's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's certainly not going to make them normal. No, it's. It might make them very scared and insecure about themselves. Or the other way. It could go either direction.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah, it does go either for me. I'd be like, what is under that black felt pen? I got? That must be amazing if I can't see it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Can I use a quarter and scratch that off.

[James Petregallo]

I'd be able to jerk off to that in like two seconds. It's gotta be so good. That's why he's covering it up. He let me see the Sears catalog, so this has to be better. So he also taught his children that women who had sex prior to marriage or even ones who necked with boys on dates, necked, made out and kissed, should be stoned just like the whores in the Bible. That's what he said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

So we'll call this extreme. There's not. This isn't, you know, hey, you should be a little more chaste and a little more, you know, I'd like everybody to wait till marriage. This is. I'll stone a girl to death because she made out with a kid in his fucking 62 Impala. That's insane. So a lot of chaos going on during all this. The other thing too, his father. If you're going to have all of these concrete, you know, just locked in thoughts and everything like that, you better be pretty stable and be like an example of something. And he's not. He's a kind of a dickhead, just a dickhole. He's a painter, like a house painter. He's a baker. He sometimes teaches in church run schools. Basically, if he got a job five towns over, they're moving five towns over and he's uprooting seven, you know, kids and everything else and his wife and moving. It's a lot. Sometimes four times a year they'd move. So they said that the children were never in the same school for more than, you know, for a whole school year. So they could never form any relationships. And that made them kind of weird and kind of recluse and everything. So they also said, a lot of people said that the parents, Ortis and Jasper El had an unreasonable fear that if they allowed their children to make friends, friends with outside people, then they would steal the kids love from them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They said, oh, you've only got a certain amount of affection.

[James Petregallo]

There's a love pie. Yeah, there's. If you give him three slices, then how about. That was the point. So, yeah, if you give me three slices then, you know, what do you got left for mom and dad here? Now the other thing that they have a bit of an issue with is Ortis and Jasper El have an obsession with Armageddon. Not the movie, not the terrible movie, the actual event of Armageddon. They believe that it was near and they needed to Be away from the wicked big city influence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that a thing for the Seventh Day Adventists, that the end of days is coming while you live?

[James Petregallo]

Listen, I'm not a religion expert, I'm not a biblical scholar, but I feel like in all the religion I've heard there's always some sort of. You know what I mean? It's just some of them, some of them are saying it's happening right now and some are saying it could happen. And, you know, it's kind of part of that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Some are saying one way or another, it's coming.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's why. I don't know. So they ended up basically. This is from the brother in law again. Said they always lived out in the country or in small towns away from everything. They said they always kind of lived in the middle of nowhere. Occasionally they'd live in houses with no electricity or plumbing, just a structure. Sometimes in trailers, sometimes even in cars. Then it gets worse than cars. At one point while living in Idaho, Ortis was so in between jobs that he found an abandoned chicken coop with a dirt floor and moved the family into it. No, he converted it into, quote, a house by just putting up like, you know, pieces of wood on the side of it to keep the wind out. And they lived in there. Oh, it's real weird now when they have to live in these environments. When you have seven kids living on top of each other like that, it gets weird, you know what I mean? From time to time. Every house is a Charlie Bucket's house. Every damn place they go is Charlie Buckets. So it's strange. So they said that at one point during this, one of these times when he was. When they were all forced to live very close to each other here, this is when he started developing odd sexual interests. Dayton does not. Ordis Ortis already has odd sexual interests.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's already bizarre.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. He already likes to. He jerks off to fully clothed hula women that he drew the clothes that he drew the clothes on. Maybe that's why he's like, I'll put the outfit that turns me on on him. So Dayton develops a very specific sexual interest in his sister's feet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know where that would come, how that would get into a young man's head or why or. I don't know. I'm not a psychiatrist. But for some reason, he was super into his sister's feet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If he had just hung on a minute, he could have been an adult that just likes other adults feet that's fine.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that would be. Well, he does fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, fine.

[James Petregallo]

I didn't say he raped his sister. I just said he didn't like attack. Start fucking her feet. He just. He was into her feet. And the way that manifested was that the sisters were always trying to find their shoes. You could never find where's my shoes? Where's my shoes? They could never find their shoes. Yeah. And that's why at night, after everyone would go to sleep, Dayton would masturbate while holding his sister's shoes, which again, I don't know what wires got crossed in what way to make you jerk off to a shoe, but that's what he was into. Maybe if you didn't draw fucking parkas on the Hawaiian girls, he could have jerked off to that and that had to find something weird to find to jerk off to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And it's fine to jerk off to a shoe, whatever, just not your fucking sister's shoe.

[James Petregallo]

Don't jerk off to anything that's in the universe of your sister. That's just weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Make that stranger's shoe.

[James Petregallo]

Don't care. Yeah, be Jerry Brudos. That's less weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

So he would later tell people that after his family moved again, he told people, quote, his sisters became whores and would force him to engage in sexual acts with them. Which no one thinks was true, by the way. That's the other thing no one thinks that's true. Which is interesting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Broad definition of it anyway.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. More like I'm turned on by them, I feel weird about it, so I'm going to say bad shit about them, kind of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And I don't appreciate them making me so horny.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And if they could go shoe shopping a little more often, that would be helpful.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's horroring around here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I see the same pair of these fucking penny loafers. These Keds aren't doing it for me anymore. He thought they needed to suffer like he'd suffered. He said too, because they were terrible. By the time he's in middle school, they had moved to College Place Washington, which is near Walla Walla. And I guess dad gotten a job at a bakery owned by relatives. Dayton worked at the bakery too. When he's 12 years old while attending school, the Seventh Day Adventist School, the Walla Walla Valley Academy, where he didn't get very good grades, didn't really care. He's not dumb, he just didn't like school at all. Just not into it. Now, during this time, 12 years old in the seventh grade, he has a little bit of A problem with the law here. He's kind of bored, I guess. Him and his friend were caught by police shooting at passing cars with a BB gun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Trying to break the windows. So, I mean, that's a 12 year old. That's kind of. I mean, it's obviously not okay. You could really hurt somebody, but at the same time, it's not out of the bounds of no cop would be like, oh my God, but he needs to be in prison forever. They'd go, listen, a passing car though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is kind of bad.

[James Petregallo]

It's all bad. Yeah. I mean, you could. What if one of the windows is open? You could hit somebody. And there's a lot of ways that this is terrible, but it's also kind of normal for. Not normal, but average for in 1965 for some kid to shoot BBs at a car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Most of them had slingshots probably. This is just an up from that a little bit.

[James Petregallo]

He's an upscale Dennis the Menace, this guy. He's ready to go. He's dating the Menace, so that's what he got caught doing. Him and his friend got probation in this, actually. But Dayton's dad was pissed. Ortis was real pissed. He beat the living shit out of Dayton for this one, so that's not good. And shockingly, as his teen years progress, he gets a continually worsening relationship with his father.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Weird, Strange. Now, Jasper, El mom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

She just wanted Ortis to just treat him. She wanted him and Ortis, Dayton and Ortis to have a real father, son, close relationship. That's all she wanted. That's it. Yeah. She said that she wanted them, quote, or she wanted Ortis, quote, to do things with Dayton like a lot of fathers do. But he just wasn't a pal with Dayton like I wished. A pal? No, he beats him fucking unmercifully. That's not a palace, Jimmy. How many times do I beat you unmercifully? Is that. I mean, sometimes, but not that often. I mean, you throw it back at me when I need it. It happens. That's what friends are for. Unmerciful beatings back and forth. I lost count. So the father and son became even more distant though. And things get really, really weird and bad here. Dayton grows to hate his father and starts basically anything his father pushes toward him, he rejects at this point. And this is what you get. You either get someone who is going to be hyper like you are, hyper religious and whatever, hyper moral, or you're going to get someone who goes, no, no, I'm doing the Complete opposite of what you fucking tell me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I hate you and I don't want to be you.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Find a preacher with four daughters and I guarantee you all four of the daughters aren't going to turn out the same fucking way. Or four sons or four or anything. So anyway, he hates his dad and then he starts having a resentment toward his mother too because his mother wouldn't stand up for him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So he realized his father's being unreasonable. He's like, oh, she's not fucking helping either. So thanks a lot. Now, shortly after the BB gun incident, Dayton's parents are going to send him away. This is about age 15. They sent him away to the Upper Columbia Academy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is a church run boarding school in Spangle, Washington, near Spokane. And he. Dayton was pissed when he got sent here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Didn't like this.

[James Petregallo]

No. His grades got even worse. He gets pretty much all D's now. Not at the boarding school for very long because his parents end up moving to Pleasant Hill, Oregon. So he moved with them where he attended the Emerald Junior Academy the following year. He also worked part time as a cabinet maker as a 15 year old, which is a odd job for a 15 year old. Not a laborer, not a hole digger, a cabinet maker.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Carpentry.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's like fine carpentry though. That's. You work your way into that. Yeah, that's a different type of carpentry.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And actually it's incredible if you can do it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah. I knew a guy who was a cabinet maker and he made incredible. He was amazing with what he could do anything. It's so meticulous. Yeah. But Dayton is pissed and pissed and pissed. His grades continue to fall. Now he's failing some shit and he's not doing well. At age 16, he drops out of the academy in the middle of his sophomore year and moves. His parents just absolutely forbade him from doing this, but he's not listening to them by now. So he moves away from them to Corvallis, Oregon, where he gets a job as a house painter earning $2.35 an hour.

[Jimmy Wissman]

$2.02, 35 cents.

[James Petregallo]

19. We're talking 1970. That's not bad money actually. That's actually decent for a kid especially.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's very little. But it's very little money to live on. Is it?

[James Petregallo]

I think it's over $20 an hour now. I mean, it's not for a child. That's not bad for, you know, someone who just dropped out of school at 16 years old, you know. Yeah. Back then you could probably get an apartment, a little, some little studio or something and. Fuck yeah. Yeah. If you're making over 20 bucks an hour back then, yeah, things were a lot different. So that's what he's doing basically. That's his whole deal. 1972 comes around and he's a house painter at this point now. Like his dad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So no matter what you're going to. You hate your dad? I'm not gonna be like my dad. Guess what you're doing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's gonna make you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, same shit as your dad, I guess. He moved there while in Eugene he began dating a 16 year old girl named Julie, who his parents hated, of course. So obviously what's gonna happen then? They're gonna get married immediately. Yeah, because they hate her. So that works out perfectly. So he marries a 16 year old. They hate her not because they're getting married or because they're together, but because she's a Lutheran. Oh, oh, not those damn shifty Lutherans. Are you kidding me? Good. What is she from Minnesota? I mean, who freaks out if your kid brought home, this is my girlfriend, she's Lutheran. You'd go, okay, anyway, where are you from? Who cares? But she also, they thought that she had a problem with drugs and alcohol. Oh, and that's true because at one point she had to be institutionalized for problems with drug and alcohol. So. Wow, she's got problems, this young lady here. To Dayton's family. This was just, it was the ultimate disgrace of the family. He's marrying some girl he shouldn't marry and he's moving away. And he's not listening. They couldn't understand a, how he could possibly marry outside the faith and, and especially a Lutheran. They said, my God. Okay, so July 72 is when he gets married to Julie. So he's married for a month. A total newlywed. All right, so he picks up a 15 year old hitchhiker, a young lady, and has sex with her. Oh, well, I guess at that point we'll say he raped a 15 year old because a 15 year old can't really consent to have sex with an adult. So there you go. He picks up a 15 year old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And that's groomed a child in a.

[James Petregallo]

Moment, very quickly, from fucking the 711 to her house. I mean, that's a, that's very fast. That's a very fast groom. Then on August 25, 1972, which is like a week later, they go out on their quote, second date. This 15 year old, the 15 year old he's now dating sophomores while he's married, which is excellent. Anyway, he drove this 15 year old into the woods near Eugene, Oregon, so they could have a little sexual interlude. And at one point, while this is going on, they're getting into it and at one point he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing her in the abdomen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

Just starts fucking savagely attacking her abdomen, stabbing her up, saying, quote, I just couldn't trust you anymore. Okay, interesting response. Now she's stabbed in the stomach, she's bleeding in pain, and now he feels bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What do you do?

[James Petregallo]

He said, oh my God, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. So he proposes to her, she's bleeding, she's bleeding out currently with multiple stab wounds. And he said, will you marry me?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he's married.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And he's also already married. Yeah, as soon as I get some, you know, my internal fucking organs sewn back together, maybe we'll talk about it. But for now, can we go to the hospital? So she said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get married, no problem. Yeah, take me to the hospital. So he took her to the hospital. And when they get to the hospital, when some scumbag brings in a 15 year old girl with tons of stab wounds on her, they tend to call.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The cops, ask questions.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, even in 1972 they called the cops for that. So he gets arrested for stabbing her in the stomach.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And she survives. She's fine, she's fine. I mean mentally probably not, but traumatic, but she's fine. Now imagine, imagine being Julie.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

You're 15 and you marry a girl, or 16, you marry some guy who you think, I assume you think he's end all be all. If you're marrying him at 16, you're married for a month, so you think you're a newlywed and things are great. And he's out raping and stabbing teenagers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Children. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

In a month. Wow, that's a lot. So when they arrest young Dayton Steve, the gambler, they bring him down to the station. And I have some of the transcript of the interrogation from 1972, which is fun. I mean, not fun, but it's fun to have an interrogation from that old. So they tell him, come on, Dayton, we talked to the girl. She told us that she did not stab herself because he said she stabbed herself. She just started going nuts and stabbing herself. And they said she said she didn't stab herself either intentionally or accidentally. Do you want to hear the tapes? They say to him, we have her recorded saying it, we got her words. So then he doesn't wait. The detective just presses the play button. And Dayton listens to the girl's statement of all of this. And he starts getting all freaked out now because he thought he could just lie his way out of it. And no, she told on him. They said, do you understand what she said, Dayton, as they switch off the player here? And he shook his head yes, but didn't answer. He just nodded. Nodded his head. And they say, well, what do you say, Dayton? Is the girl's statement true? And he just shook his head no. He wouldn't speak.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hmm.

[James Petregallo]

He's just shaking his head no. They said it would be in your best interest if you were truthful. You know, Dayton. So Dayton looked down and didn't know what to do. He started chewing his fingernails. And then he tells the detectives, quote, I need a little time to get my thoughts in order. Like, this guy is wacky. But he said, yeah. He said, I will tell you everything. I'll tell you everything that I know. I'll tell you the truth. You just got to give me a minute to get my shit together. They said, why not? We'll go grab a cup of coffee. We'll be back. So, yeah, can't wait to hear what this asshole has to say. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, Simply safe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Simply safe.com s I m p l I safe dot com.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. We want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here. I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break in. And the guy gets scared and, oh, God, people are going to hear this and they run away and maybe get your neighbor's attention, but that's pretty reactive. I mean, things are already happening by that time. An intruder's in your home, it's too late. You've heard Small Town Murder. You're listening to it right now. It's way too late. If someone's in your home, you're already dead. So we can't have that. That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts, Right? That's why we trust Simplisafe. Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive. And really could have made half of our episodes not happen if people had Simplisafe. It's amazing. I love it. My whole house, my studio, Jimmy's house, studio, everything is covered by Simplisafe because it's the best. It's simply the best that's all there is to it. They use AI powered smart cameras to identify threats lurking outside your home. They immediately alert Simplisafe's professional monitoring agents. Boom. There you go. These agents intervene in real time before things even happen. They can talk. They have access to two way audio to confront the purse. Hey stupid, get out of the yard. It's great. It's amazing. Trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them. They request rapid police dispatch when needed. All helping to stop this intruder while they're still outside your house. That's security. So join the more than 4 million Americans who trust Simplisafe with their home security every day, including Jimmy and myself here. And with a 60 day money back guarantee and no long term contracts, Simplisafe earns your business by keeping you safe and satisfied every single day. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system. That's SimpliSafe. S I-m p l I safe.comsmall there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game or. Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This show, Small Town Murder is brought to you by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com youm know it. Therapy is a good thing. We could all use it. Not all of us are getting it. So you should be getting it. And you'll turn to weird places to get the support that you need. You'll turn to a friend that might have an insight. You'll turn to other people. Your mother, some stranger who knows. But not everybody's a therapist. That's the thing. Not everyone is the one. Find your right match with better help. And you can do that. I'm telling you. You talk to all sorts of random strangers or people you know or somebody cutting your hair or something about relationships, anxiety. You know, they're nice to talk to those people. But when you need somebody that really knows what they're doing here, those people might not have the right answers. But you can get guidance from a credentialed therapist online with better help. And telling you, man, BetterHelp is the great place to start therapy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Perfect, sir.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

He starts out by saying, quote, I'm married.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. I've only, I've only been married about a month and I've been having some difficulties with my wife. Okay, you're married a month. Figure it out. Yeah, he said that his wife was young. Yeah. You married a sophomore again. That's. What do you want?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Young is a word.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. She's a teenager, a child and she was having problems adjusting to marriage. Yeah, yeah. She was in science class last week and now she's married to you. It's a big change probably here. He said that he only wanted to talk to this young woman. I'll leave her name out of this. The 15 year old. He said he just wanted to have a friend he could relate to. When he was having problems with his wife. He just wanted to have a sounding board.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I needed somebody around her age that.

[James Petregallo]

Would understand, that would get what she's about. But it's just a strange thing because if you want a friend to talk to you don't have sex with that person. That's the point. So he said that's all he planned to do that day. He said he took the young lady into the woods just to talk and he wanted to just vent and bear his soul and hopefully get some feedback, he said. But one thing led to another. You know how it is. He said before he knew it, they were quote, frolicking on the ground, where he'd be frolicking, you know, I guess making out, rolling around on the ground. I don't know why they're on the ground instead of back in the car, but that's fine. He said that he began fondling her legs and feet. Here we go with the feet again. This guy. Fucking weirdo. So he began fondling her legs and feet, and he said that he attacked her when he leaned over to kiss her. She thought he was kissing her. And he said she didn't respond or even put her arms around me while I was kissing her. That's when it happened. So apparently she wasn't as ravenously into this kiss as he was. And that's it. So he said, you know, that's when it happened. She doubled up and I drew back, startled, then looked down and saw the knife in her stomach.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

She had both hands on it and she was pulling it out. I stood up in complete confusion and shock and said, oh, my God, what did I do now? Or, what do I do now? Not, what did I do? What do I do now? I must have been taken over by the devil, or else I wouldn't have done it. He says. So his claim is, got horny, devil.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Took over, made out with her, stabbed her once, walked away. That's his answer. She's stabbed up a lot though, right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it must have been the devil.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's all blacked out. He said his mind went blank just prior to when it happened. So he doesn't know what happened. That had to be the devil, he said. That's all I can think. The detective said, did you fuck the girl Dayton? Which is great. He tells his big horseshit thing. Did you fuck the girl Dayton? Come on now. He says, no, no, we just kissed. They said, what happened to her bra then? Oh, yeah, where's your bra?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where's that?

[James Petregallo]

What's up with that shit? Yeah, he said she just got hot and wanted to take it off. Wow. He said he helped her take it off, but he insisted that he did not engage in sexual intercourse with her. Absolutely not. He said following the stabbing, he was so in a tizzy, he just grabbed the bra and threw it into some bushes along with the knife and the knife sheath. Just threw it into the bushes. Doesn't know what he did, but he knows it's wrong.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, those are expensive. You can't just be throwing those willy nilly.

[James Petregallo]

No, I don't think they had expensive bras in 1972.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're probably right. They're probably just every one of them sucks.

[James Petregallo]

Every one of them? Yeah. None of them. None of them had, like, you know, some model. They paid $40 million to put it on. So they have to now charge you $130 for a fucking bra, make your fucking boobs stand up straighter or whatever. So that's what he said. He said it was in a rural location just off the Lorraine highway in the vicinity of the Isaac Walton League firing range.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So he said, I'll take you there if you want.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, let's go.

[James Petregallo]

And they said, love to Dayton. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do this. Let's go. So it was shortly before 2pm when Dayton and the policeman arrived at the location near Macbeth Road. Upon entering a field. There's a lot of heavy forest in the background and all that kind of thing. Dayton pointed out, there's where I stabbed her right there. He then pointed to the east, over past a fence that separated the field from the firing range, and said he'd thrown the brassiere in that direction. So the detective eventually found the bra and found the knife sheath a few steps to the northeast. He then said, keep going a little farther north and that's where you'll find the knife. And it was in some bushes lying beneath the bottom of a barbed wire fence. All right. So, yeah, that's interesting too, because it makes perfect sense. If you're throwing things, a bra won't go very far. Not a good throwing item. A knife sheath will go farther than a bra, but then a knife will fucking cruise. You could throw that thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So throw that handful of three and see which one goes further.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, that's exactly how they're gonna land. So now, on the way downtown back down after getting all this shit, Detective Miller is talking to Dayton in the car. And Dayton says, okay, fine, I had sex with her. You were right. I did. He said the sex act had occurred the day before in his car on a side road near the community of Fern Ridge. So that's when he picked her up hitchhiking day before? Yeah, they went out for their second date the next day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

He said they would also have sex. They would also have had sex the day of the stabbing if he hadn't attacked her. For her apparent lack of interest, he said that the sexual incidents between them had been mutually agreed upon by both of them. And either way, he is held on a charge of first degree assault and released on bail. So from this, they're gonna make him undergo a psych evaluation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, dude. Figure out what's wrong with him?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's just a little off. And they're like, this doesn't sound right. It just doesn't sound right. So they do. This is October of 1972, is the examination. It was performed by a psychiatrist from Eugene, Oregon. They said he was neatly groomed and looked nice. He didn't show up with leaves in his hair, ranting and raving or anything like that. They said he was somewhat anxious and had tension during the interview. The interview. And they did a series of standardized psychiatric tests, including the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, which we talked about a lot with Ted Bundy in a Ted Bundy Patreon episode. We did here the sentence completion test and the draw a person test, which again, Ted Bundy did. This is like the standard. These are all what Bundy did. So now Dayton performed well on the test and appeared oriented in all spheres of reference. So he's not a dummy. He doesn't have some organic brain problem that's not connecting, you know, synapses or something here. But during the interview, he said he recanted everything he said to the detectives earlier. He said that. I told them that because that's what they wanted to hear. He said, but it's my opinion that the girl stabbed herself and she was under the influence of some kind of drug at the time and stabbed herself. So they said, that's what I think. So that's his excuse for this with a psychiatrist, which is. You know what I mean? That's a. That's not a good excuse. You can tell the cops that, but your shrink is not going to buy that shit and neither are the cops. But. So anyway, here is the diagnostic impression written by a Dr. Cook. They said there was no evidence during the interview that his judgment was impaired and he seemed to have significant levels of psychiatric insight. It is my opinion that the defendant at this time does not have a mental disease or defect which. Which would. From the basis. Which would form the basis for an adequate defense against the charges of first degree assault. It is noted during the examination that the defendant consistently maintained that he was in complete awareness of his mental faculties and denied being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, which would alter his mental status diagnostically. I feel the defendant falls into the classification of depressive neuroses, probably superimposed on a long standing schizoid personality disorder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

There's no suggestion at the present time, nor at the time of the alleged crime that either of these emotional disorders would render the defendant incapable of Distinguishing between right and wrong or being aware of the criminality of an assaultive act. So he's all fucked up, but not fucked up enough to not know the law.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's crazy. That he has a disease that's going to cause him to do violent things. He also knows it as wrong.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, and that's the standard for law.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dangerous one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They don't care how crazy you are under the law. They just care if you knew that what you were doing was wrong and then you're guilty, it doesn't matter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got a propensity for violence and.

[James Petregallo]

He knows for sure and he knows it's bad and he still does it. So yeah, now he is facing jail time, like a good amount of jail time. So he plea bargains the charge from a second degree assault all the way down to coercion. Or. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, this is a bargain to charge down to a second degree assault. Coercion is something later. I'm sorry. So, yeah, he's going to end up with that. He pleads guilty and as a result he receives no prison time and is placed on four years of probation. That's what he gets. So second degree assault. Now less than six months later. Jesus Christ. This is crazy. Less than six months later, the police are aware of him again because according to reports, Dayton and his wife Julie, his 16 year old wife, had taken in two teenage girls listed as runaways and let them live at the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh no.

[James Petregallo]

Runaway high school students. So also at this point, he's a mess. He starts drinking heavily, real heavily. When he would get shitfaced, he'd start making out with the girls and requesting sexual favors from them, the teenagers they took in. At one point, his relationship, he's just having an affair with both of them, I guess you could call it. At one point, one of the girls starts trying to get him to leave his wife and be with them. Them, with them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who's not taking that deal?

[James Petregallo]

Crazy. Well, they're. Nobody's an adult here. What am I talking to say? They're not even adults. Neither is his wife. So what's the difference? He doesn't care. He looks at a high school yearbook like a, like a dating site. This is insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's Tinder. That's a two for one deal right there. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

That's fucking nuts. So Dayton's wife Julie eventually leaves him because of this. Yeah, she leaves because he's banging around with two other girls in the house. So she ends up moving in with two men that she knows, Julie. So you can imagine Dayton's thrilled about that. So Dayton found out where she was staying and demanded that she come home.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Now she gets home. The two young wards here didn't realize she was coming home. And they're mad she's back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Dayton's mad that they're mad that she's back and Julie's mad that they didn't. It's a mess at this point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So everybody's mad that everybody's here.

[James Petregallo]

A violent brawl erupts among the whole group here. A violent brawl. Dayton tells his wife and both of the men, by the way, that she was living with, that he would kill all three of them if he ever saw them again. And Julie eventually returns home. Okay, so she's going to live in this weird quadruple that's going on here. Wow. So now at age 20, August 1, 1973. He's. Like I said, he's got all these. He's got these teenage girls living in the house. This night, during this evening, Julie is out somewhere, he's been drinking. And without warning, he attacks the two young girls that he's there with with a beer bottle, beating them repeatedly about their heads.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

Just beating them with a beer bottle? Yeah, Clonking on him. So then he freaked out because, you know, he thought he didn't know what he did. Basically he freaked out and didn't know what to do because, you know, now they have lumps all over their heads. I'm sure they're upset. So he jumps into his house and speeds away, by the way, in his white 67 Camaro. Cool fucking car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. 67 Camaro is a great car. Now, neither girl's severely injured, but they contacted the police and Dayton was arrested near his home after he lost control of his Camaro and crashed into another vehicle. Oh, no. He was hammered. He left the house shit faced. And that's what happened. So the cops showed up at this accident scene and they were like, oh, we were gonna arrest you anyway. This is easy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Perfect crash, that one. God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

He was charged with one count each of second and third degree assault in connection with this attack. And that was that. So that's it. Second and third degree assault. Now, would this be considered a probation violation?

[Jimmy Wissman]

You'd think so, right?

[James Petregallo]

You know, from his last assault of a teenage girl, he's doing the exact same thing. The prosecutors petitioned the court to revoke probation, but the judge found him not guilty by reason of insanity. Yes. He came in For a hearing. And they said, I don't think he's got insanity. And puts him into a hospital, the Oregon State Hospital, in March of 74.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He's gonna spend nine months in the hospital.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which. Yeah. Instead of jail, essentially. So on December 12, 1974, he gets out. He's released from the hospital. There he is now. At this point, he doesn't know what to do with himself. His family wants nothing to do with him. He doesn't really want anything to do with his family. His wife, like, you know, lives with other people and dudes and girls are calling cops on him and he doesn't know what to do. So he moved to Eugene, Oregon. Now. I'm sorry, they had moved to Eugene, his wife and everything. So he moves to Salem. He gets a job as a house painter and moves into an apartment with the minister from the church he began attending while he was hospitalized. So the guy from the church takes him in. He still has violent sexual fantasies. He masturbates multiple times a day. As much as he can get in, as much as he can squeeze in. Really. He's jerking it, really getting it in there. February of 1975, he meets a woman. Oh, what a lucky lady she is. Sherry Miller is her name. And she's known as very attractive physically, and very naive and innocent as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is, you know, a guy likes that. A young man likes that young man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's a specific type of man that really likes that. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Especially guys under 20 or under 25 really like that because then they can feel like they're the experienced one or whatever. As you get older, you're not interested in that anymore. You're interested in a decent blow job at that point. That's not going to come from. I don't care how pretty you are. You don't know what you're doing. That's different. That's just life. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a tough job to be handling, lady.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. We want some experience after a while, some fucking. Know how.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When you can lean on your looks to get past it, then it's probably not very good.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So, yeah, she's sexually inexperienced. She's also very religious. She's from Canby now. She loved everything like that. And she loved him, thought he was great right away. I don't know what the hell ingratiated him to her, but.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, he's probably charming.

[James Petregallo]

He loved her family. He thought her family was awesome. She has, like a good family. She's from a good family. Where Everybody likes each other and they're nice to each other and they encourage their kids. And he was like, this is awesome. This is so cool. They're real clean cut and loving. He loved Sherry's father Roy. Loved it, loved it, loved Roy, thought he was a great guy. So soon he moves out of his apartment that he was living in with the minister and rents an apartment of his own in Woodburn. This is to be closer to Sherry and her family. Now he's happy and he really likes Sherry and he really likes her family. But he's also really into some sexual shit that he can't really talk to her about or get into. So he would basically still. He would hang out with Sherry, hang out with her family, and then he'd go out at night and hook up with other women. Basically go to bars and find somebody or, you know, find someone on the street if he had to. He's just. He's gonna get some that night, though. That's what's gonna Mousey gon get some dick tonight, as the wild, wonderful whites told us. So he and Sherry are married on October 25, 1975. So very quickly, yeah. They get married. Sherry and her family hope that this is going to be great for everybody. But they had no idea who Dayton really is and what he's all about, what he's into.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is he divorced now?

[James Petregallo]

I assume so. He's married and Sherry. Yeah. So he's got to have gotten divorced now. Newlywed life for him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, the courtship.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the courtship. He's got a young bride, she's pretty, she's vivacious and got the family that he likes. Everything should be going well for him. Problem is, things started to kind of deteriorate for him. He had problems at the painting company where he works. There was a union issue and there was a big strike and there was all this shit. So he was unemployed and dependent on Sherry and her family. He wasn't sexually satisfied with his wife at all and started getting even more into sex with people that he knew from bars and stuff like that. And, you know, he was having sex all the time. He literally. Why is he so goddamn horned up five different chicks? Because his dad never let him see the goddamn hula album. Just let the kid jerk off to some broad in the grass skirt and none of this would have happened.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He won't have to do it every day, seven times a day for the rest of his life.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. That's it. That's all it is. I'm convinced of that. I'm not a psychiatrist, but that seems probably what it is. So he's still not satisfied with anything. So he starts to get depressed and begins drinking very heavily and smoking some weed and using some amphetamines from time to time. Let's mix meth into this as well. Why not? And he started getting severe, severe headaches as well. This is the time for years. Severe headaches he starts to get, which, I mean, maybe it's all the booze and speed that would give me a headache, but who knows? So anyway, he keeps getting more depressed, more agitated, the more sex and drugs and alcohol that he ingests, basically. So he's at home, he's more depressive, he's kind of more alienated from his family and friends and everything like that. And he just basically is a jackass after this. Now, December 4, 1975, okay, Sherry's questioning him, going, where the hell are you? Where are you at night? Seriously, where the fuck do you go? He exploded. How dare you? How dare you ask me where I am?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Question me.

[James Petregallo]

How dare you. They have a huge fight and he storms out of the house. Okay, okay. He thought in his mind, I'm gonna drive to Eugene and not tell Sherry. That's it. I'm not gonna tell her. So he just takes off and he's not gonna talk to her. What he ends up doing is finding an 18 year old girl. And this is February 24th. That's December 4th. Oh, I'm sorry. December 4th, he finds an 18 year old girl and ra. After a fight with his wife, she turns him in and he's indicted on first degree rape charges.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, great.

[James Petregallo]

Great. He's allowed to remain free pending a trial in May.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We shouldn't do that, right?

[James Petregallo]

Well, not for this guy. He's got no bearings. It's not like. Well, he has to be to work on Monday and he'll be there all the time. And his probation officer could check on him. He was just putting this guy in the wind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got nowhere to be.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. So February 24th, 1976, while out on bond awaiting trial for first degree rape. Okay. He finds two high school girls.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he holds them both at knife point and rapes one of them while the other is forced to watch and held at knife point. That's nice. Disgusting. And then he apologized afterwards.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, at least.

[James Petregallo]

I'm so sorry. Yeah. One of the young ladies said, quote, he apologized as if it was all some kind of game. Like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry, my bad. So what he does is he's then driving them in the car. They're trapped with him in the car, but it's raining out and he gets stuck in the mud. So he had them tied up with ropes in the car. In the car. What do you think he was going to do with them? This is after he raped them. He figured out you can't let them go after you rape them because they'll tell on you. And then you go to jail. So he has to untie them because he can't push the car out by himself. He needs them to help push the car out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gonna need a little help here, victims. I mean, ladies.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they get out and they're like, yeah, so we're going to the back bumper. Okay. So, yeah, you get in the middle. Bye. And they just fucking ran away as fast as they could out into the rain while he's standing there like an asshole in his car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Can't push my car out.

[James Petregallo]

No, I can't chase them, because then they're gonna find my car, and then I'm gonna be. Fuck. So he gets arrested. Obviously, they call the cops. And he pleads not guilty to these charges because of mental disease is what he says.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, this is a problem.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. May of 1976. This is court for the December rape. He's found not guilty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

This is the mid-70s, where, yeah, they'd get a girl on the stand and be like, how many guys have you slept with? What were you wearing? That kind of shit. So he's acquitted. June of 1976. Finally, his probation's revoked.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, good.

[James Petregallo]

Finally. Holy shit. I mean, what does it take? How many teenagers have to run screaming from your car before they revoke your probation? So August of 76, he's in court for the February attack on the two young girls there. He is acquitted of rape again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

There's two witnesses. Two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

But he's convicted on two counts of coercion.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. What is that?

[James Petregallo]

Which essentially means he making somebody do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Something they didn't want to do.

[James Petregallo]

He convinced underage girls to fuck him is what that means. Which is way different than rape.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And wow. I mean, in the court back then, in the law, the prosecutor referred to Dayton as, quote, a murder case looking for a place to happen. Please put this guy away. And they went, nah, he's okay. He's good. He is sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off. Five years in prison they give him for this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's terrific. We'll keep an eye on him for two and a half years.

[James Petregallo]

That's about right. Well, August. That's August of 76, March of 78. He's paroled.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A year and a half.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Yeah, not even two years. Yeah, he's paroled, but he almost immediately violates his parole and his return to prison. After that, he is held until January of 1982, when he has a parole hearing. That's his first hearing during this. And this is one of those where the parole. Basically, his sentence will be up next year. So a lot of times they will parole somebody, even if they're not a good candidate for it, in case they fuck up. They can then put them back in prison for violating and then extend their sentence and all that kind of shit. You can tell that's what they're doing because he doesn't do a very good job. In this parole interview. No, this is during the parole interview, one of the parole people asks him, if you could do things differently, what would you change?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What would you do?

[James Petregallo]

Look, what's the answer to that question if you're trying to get out of prison, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I would have never done that in the first place.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. I would have gotten help for my problems. I wouldn't have involved others. I wouldn't have hurt anybody. His answer is, quote, next time, I won't leave a witness.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Next time.

[James Petregallo]

Next time, I won't leave a witness. So I'm gonna do it again, and I'll make sure they're dead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

And they said, well, parole granted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get out of their yard. Get out there and be somebody.

[James Petregallo]

You can do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Boy, do we believe in you.

[James Petregallo]

Enjoy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. And she writes in her report that, quote, he appears well adjusted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's making jokes and shit, you guys.

[James Petregallo]

He's super comfortable. Holy shit. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He added some stitches. A little dark on the humor, but very funny.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, you know, I kind of like that, though. I'm into that. You know what I mean? I like Carlin's darker stuff saying back then. It's funny. I like when Pryor talks about setting himself on fire. That's the good stuff, you know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Wissman]

The guy told the parole board, next time I won't leave a witness. Real Jeselnik material.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, he's got. He's real edgy. That's what it is. People don't get his edge sometimes. See, that's the problem. They just don't get his edge.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fucking believable.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, he's paroled, and a year later, his parole supervision is terminated. His sentence is up. So that's that. He's a free man. He becomes. He somehow figures out. He never had any experience that I found of working with engines of any kind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

He's been painting. He's been doing stuff like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's a mechanic now.

[James Petregallo]

He's. Now he's a mechanic. I guess maybe in prison he might have learned the trade. Yeah, I mean, he's a. Yeah, a small engine mechanic.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

That's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's lawnmower.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not a car. Yeah, yeah. Basically he's sling blade now. Yeah, Sling blade got out. Where did he go?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right. It's very.

[James Petregallo]

To repair lawnmowers and fucking sleep in a. God.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He talks like this, and he can repair a lawnmower just good as anybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So, you know, single piston, you spray some carb cleaner in it, it's ready to go.

[James Petregallo]

It's all good now. That's right. Going over to Bill Cox's outfit. That's right. Fuck, I love that movie. That's a goddamn great movie. So he's a small engine mechanic now, and he opens up a repair shop in Woodburn, Oregon, in the 80s. So now he's a business owner. And he appears. By all outside standards, he appears to be keeping it all together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got it between the lines.

[James Petregallo]

He's not a raging alcoholic. He's not raping anyone. He's not beating his wife. He's opening a business. He's operating it. He's paying taxes. He's doing all the things you're supposed to do when you get paroled.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's doing everything rolling down the road.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. By 86, 87. He's still married to Sherry, by the way. He's been married for 12 years now. That's very stable. I mean, he did spend half of that time in prison, but still, it's stable. For our show, it's stable. But then he and Sherry have a son in early 1986. God damn it. That's scary that they have a son. That's one of those. When this guy has a kid, you go, let's just hope it's a daughter and it turns out to be a stripper or something. Not a murder. Let's hope she dances and not kills. Because a boy. I'm worried he's gonna kill 30 people at least.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's not gonna rape this child, right?

[James Petregallo]

Let's hope not. So he's married to Sherry. They're both. They're very religious. They go to church. They. You know, he is like a mainstay in the Community, you know, you got your. If your weed whacker's broken, he'll fix it. You can talk to him about it at church on Sunday because he'll sure be there. They have a son. They live in a nice house in Cambie. Like a little night. Not a big house, but modest house. His business is pretty successful, doing well. He fixes lawnmowers and chainsaws and shit. He even had to hire help because his business was so good he couldn't handle it all in his life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow. He's doing great.

[James Petregallo]

He is described by neighbors as reliable and polite.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What happened? He was rehabilitated.

[James Petregallo]

That's what it looks like. One person called him, quote, the kind of guy you trust with your equipment, meaning drop off your chainsaw to him. You trust him with it. The weird thing is, the only crack in this armor is he works late an awful lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right, well, yeah, he had to hire extra people. He's got to be out there late at night.

[James Petregallo]

You own your own business.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You got to put whatever hours in you need.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. There's a lot of years waiting on work.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I work a lot more than I'd like to right now because this is our business. You know what I mean? You got to do what you got to do. So he works late, and also he's putting. Like, she'll even notice that. He puts a lot of miles on his truck. You're just going to the repair shop down the street and back. What happens? So what is up with that? And he said, I'm working late. That's why. Just working late. And she believed him. Then she heard rumors from her friends that, you know, that he's in bars at night. Oh, I saw your husband out at the bar.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, really? Thursday. I thought he was working late on Thursday. Okay, so Sherry's getting all of that. But she said, you know, maybe he needs to blow off steam. He's a guy. I don't know how they think. And he works all day, and maybe he has stress and he blows off, has a couple of drinks before he comes home. Maybe that's why he's so nice, because he's interesting. Unwound.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. To be working really hard and then go sit on the end of a bar stool for 34 hours and sigh.

[James Petregallo]

There are so many guys that do that. That is a. That is a life. I mean, Jesus, I know construction guys. That. That's what they do every day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Telling the Same stories for 20 years.

[James Petregallo]

Same shit over and over again. You can go to the Restaurant by my house that we go to, the bar in there, packed every goddamn night. Tons of those guys that are just putting them back, man, and just driving and then weaving their way home at fucking one o' clock in the morning or midnight or whatever the fuck. It's a crazy wild style life that I can't. I can't get into that shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't wrap my head around like the idea of the danger involved in getting home.

[James Petregallo]

It's insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So summer of 1987, his headaches are starting to get really bad now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh no.

[James Petregallo]

His head is just. He can't take it anymore. Pounding, pounding. So he called it like blinding pain. Migraine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Actual migraines. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Horrifying. He did say that he found some things that will help it go away. And that is going out at night and having sex with strange women. That makes his head feel better.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Strange pussy sometimes does.

[James Petregallo]

It can cure anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It just says, you're right.

[James Petregallo]

Apparently for this guy, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crazy.

[James Petregallo]

It's a cure. So by like 8:30pm he'd have dinner with the family and then by 9, he was going back to the shop to work more.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yep. By midnight he's changing into different clothes that he kept in a special closet at his shop. Yeah, he'd change into his out going out clothes and by 12:30am he'd be heading off to Portland to party. That's how it went. To party. And he'd be out all night half the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All night.

[James Petregallo]

He'd be like, man, you have no idea how broken these people's lawnmowers are. They are just. There is not a blade of grass that can be cut in this county unless I get my shit together. Boy, it's bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How many bars stay open that late in Portland?

[James Petregallo]

I guess enough for him. Well, he'd go to bars, but then there was also another scene he was looking for, and that was the ladies after the bars.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The red light district.

[James Petregallo]

The ones he could pay for. Exactly. So this is what Steve the Gambler is into. That's what he tells all these ladies. His name is, by the way, Steve the Gambler. He's from Nevada. That's what he tells them all. Which is the only place that I can think of that he hasn't lived actually is Nevada. But he tells them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cowboys from Arizona, but we can't. Pinocchio.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they, the ladies that he hooks up with all notice the same thing that he's into. He wants to tie their hands and feet tightly behind them. Which if I'm Doing that. There's no fucking way anybody's tying me up. No, not happening. No, not happening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're not restraining me?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. I'm gonna have a blade on me and I'm gonna have my hand. I can only do sexual acts with one hand because my other hand's on my fucking blade. Ready to chop your balls off would be my. I don't know how else you would go about that profession.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

He would also enjoy threatening to cut their. Their breasts, feet and buttocks with a knife, too. You tell them he wanted to do that and he was gonna. He's gonna cut them and he's gonna do all this shit. And then they would get scared, and then he would get off on that. That's what he likes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When you put your penis in my mouth, I'm going to bite it.

[James Petregallo]

Very well. I'm going to take it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm be honest.

[James Petregallo]

But this is he. This. They know that this is what he does to get off as he has to threaten them, okay? Which is real fucking weird. He also likes biting and pinching breasts, feet and buttocks as well. He enjoys basically inflicting pain on them until they stop resisting. They all say if they fight, that's when he's into it. If they stop and just go limp, he completely stops. He's done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He doesn't like it.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our SafeST sponsor, SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

SimpliSafe.com S I M P L I Safe.com.

[James Petregallo]

That'S right. We want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here. I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break in. And the guy would get scared and go, God, people are going to hear this and they run away and maybe they get your neighbor's attention, but that's pretty reactive. I mean, things are already happening by that time. An intruder's in your home, it's too late. You've heard Small Town Murder. You're listening to it right now. It's way too late. If someone's in your home, you're already dead. So we can't have that. That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

That's why we trust Simplisafe. Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive, and really could have made half of our episodes not happen. If people at Simplisafe. It's amazing. I love it my whole House, My studio, Jimmy's house. Studio. Everything is covered by Simplisafe because it's the best. It's simply the best. That's all there is to it. They use AI powered smart cameras to identify threats lurking outside your home. They immediately alert Simplisafe's professional monitoring agents. Boom. There you go. These agents intervene in real time before things even happen. They can talk. They have access to two way audio to confront the purse. Hey, stupid, get out of the yard. It's great. It's amazing. Trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them. They request rapid police dispatch when needed. All helping to stop this intruder while they're still outside your house. That's security. So join the more than 4 million Americans who trust Simplisafe with their home security every day, including Jimmy and myself here. And with a 60 day money back guarantee and no long term contracts, Simplisafe earns your business by keeping you safe and satisfied every single day. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system. That's Simplisafe. S I M P L I Safe. There's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Loses all interest in what's happening if you go limp and stop. Doesn't care. Wow. He always did that. Later on, 30 different women will come forward. Really 33. Zero with saying they've been with Steve the Gambler. And they all have stories and they're all very similar. He'd find them out on the street. He'd find them on Union Avenue usually. They said he always had miniature vodka bottles. Little plain bottles.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, always.

[James Petregallo]

Always had those. And he always had plastic containers of orange juice. Orange juice?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Road screwdrivers. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. They said he would mix them while driving. He'd dump the vod, take a sip of the juice, dump the vodka in, shake it up, and then he would have that to drink, basically. Okay. Now so that's that. He picked them up and now he's having a cocktail on the way out to wherever they're going. He would start with foot massages. Not for him, for them. Okay. Obsessed with feet. Rubbing their feet especially. They all said high arches. That's what he was into.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He likes the high arches.

[James Petregallo]

That is. So how do you get that specific about feet?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I like feet. I don't like just feet. I like big toes.

[James Petregallo]

Like a high arch. Yeah. I like if the third toe, not the second, the third toes a little longer than the second. That's what turns me on. Now that's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't get into anything else is when that pinky toe doesn't even have a nail.

[James Petregallo]

It's just sitting off on the end, kind of hanging underneath it. That's sexy, Roy. I tell you what.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's like. It's like a skin tag over there.

[James Petregallo]

That's what he's into. I don't get it. Like, I can't even. Like, I've never got that specific about boobs. And boobs are great. I've never been like, well, I only like it if the nipple is placed right. Like, they're all great. Who cares?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Specificity in feet to be that.

[James Petregallo]

I don't get what. I don't get it. He would pay them. And this is in the 80s, mind you. $50.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which I remember the Hookers at the Point documentary. That's what they're called, by the way, from the HBO in the late 90s. We're talking 96, 97.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

These girls would do 40 for a half and half, which is a blowjob and sex for 40.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Doubling up.

[James Petregallo]

This is. He would pay them 50 just to rub their feet while he masturbated. Which. Okay. Why? I don't get it. I just don't get it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

50 bucks.

[James Petregallo]

My shit isn't. Whatever. They're not quite twisted in that way. Other ways, yes, but not that particular way. So then that's what he would do. That's what he's doing at night when Sherry doesn't know what he's up to. And she's going, oh, my man is such a hard worker. He's working something hard. Here's a story from July 7, 1987. Heather Brown, she's 31 years old. She was. She had worked the night before and needed some cigarettes. And a man in a blue Nissan pickup offered her a ride to the store. He drove her to the Molalla Forest instead. Is that how you pronounce that? Malala? Probably, I believe. M O L A L L A. Molalla. That sounds right. He said that he wanted to, quote, tie someone up and fuck them. That was his quote.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She tried to get out of the car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He.

[James Petregallo]

He gunned it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Started going 60 miles an hour on a logging road. Scary.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She jumped from the moving truck. Anyway.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

That's how scary.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He did not want to be tied up.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She said, I know this will hurt, but that this guy's going to be way worse than jumping from a 60 mile an hour moving vehicle. She ends up with a concussion and multiple abrasions. This young woman so that's crazy, first of all. So there's that. Then we come to August 7, 1987, where we started. Let's find out how this all occurred here. Jennifer Lisa Smith is the woman that was being bleeding out in the parking lot. She's a 25 year old young lady. She has an AKA of gypsy Rosalyn Costello, which is much different than Jennifer Lisa Smith.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure is.

[James Petregallo]

Now she works the street in Portland and that's kind of. She's not. She has odd jobs sometimes and then does this sometimes too. Does a little bit of prostitution on the inside. She's a mother of two and she's trying to make ends meet, essentially. So she does whatever she has to do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Financial instability will cost you everything.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So she said she knew the man who picked her up in a blue Nissan pickup. His name, he called himself Steve the Gambler from Nevada. She said sometimes he said he was from Vegas, sometimes he said Reno. But didn't matter. She'd been with him twice before. Oh, she said two months earlier there was the Rose Festival. And during the festival she was with him twice there. She said he paid well too. He paid $80 instead of 40. He paid double the rate. She said he was weird, but. And this is the thing, like if you, if you watch Deadwood when they're in the, you know, at the gym and they're talking about, quote, specialists, the guy who just wants to jump tit liquor. Yeah, the tit licker who runs by. And like they said, specialists are the best because they just want to do one weird thing and they usually pay more than everybody else and they don't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Want anybody to know.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And that's what she was looking at this as is. He was into the feet and shit like that. And she thought that was weird, but he never hurt her or did anything. She just had to have her feet out and she got extra money. She didn't give a fuck. She was like, great. She said some little bit of rough stuff, but nothing that was outside of the bounds of what she could deal with or what she was willing to do for the money. So this particular night, her friend Jackie watched her get into the pickup on the northeast corner of Union and Wygent. Jackie was. Her friend was sleeping in her Honda, waiting for some scheduled dates she had. So she had a car and everything. She later says, also police to police, that Jennifer waved goodbye and smiled. She knows this guy. It was about 1:15am he picks her up and then he drove with her to a 711 store. I think that's they got stopped for cigarettes and stuff like that. Then to the parking lot of a Denny's on McLaughlin Boulevard in Clackamas County. Now, we don't know what happened during the drive from 7:11 to the Denny's parking lot. A lot. Now, Dayton claims later that they had consensual bondage sex for money. That's what he says. He said that she let him. Jennifer let him tie her up so that he could massage her feet and masturbate. Just let me tie you up so I can rub your feet and masturbate. Jesus Christ. How fucking. What's the problem? What's the problem, honey? I don't get it. Like, what the fuck? Okay, so he said that she was tied up. So that she was on her knees facing the back of the seat with her hands and feet tied behind her against the dashboard. Everybody get that backwards in the front seat.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what he says. We know it's a little bit different, though, because by 3am they were in a dark corner of the Denny's parking lot, hidden away between a small office building and a row of hedges. Because I would assume if you take her to an abandoned parking lot, she might get scared. But if you go to a Denny's parking lot, it's enough people where she could find someone if she's scared, but. But not enough to where they're going to see you doing what you're doing type of deal. So, 3:02am Michael Fielding lives in a townhouse apartment on Vineyard Lane, directly behind the Denny's. He works early in the morning, so he tries to get asleep here. His bedroom window overlooks the Denny's parking lot. This Michael Fielding is in bed. And he shoots out of bed out of a sound that he thought was cats fighting. Yeah, he said. He said it was weird. They almost sound human. You know, these cats really. Cats nowadays, more human than ever. But then he started hearing things that you'd never hear a cat say. Like, help me. Please help me. Rape. I'm being raped.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

If you hear a cat saying that, you know, get that thing to the vet, because it's not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Call Sarah McLachlachlan.

[James Petregallo]

She's going to be furious, going to really be upset. So. Jesus. So she. They said it was muffled initially, like someone yelling through a window. So he got up, by the way, his window was closed, so maybe that's why.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yelling through the window?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you know, he said he's half asleep. He stumbled to his window trying to process what's going on here. As he got to the window, he said the screams were louder now, no longer muffled. He said it was like someone had opened a door. Suddenly the screams were everywhere. At first I thought it was muffled, like someone yelling inside a car. Then it got louder. She was screaming, help me, please help me. Rape. So he is watching this from his window, which is horrifying because you're on like a second floor. You can't really do much about this other than go, hey, stop. What else can you say? Throw something at the guy. I mean, so he doesn't know what to do. He sees a man under a streetlight walking away from the situation carrying something you can't see. What. That's when Charles Gates with his wheelchair.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Takes a detour from his hot chocolate to run over, to roll over there and try to tend to Jennifer here. And he is now. That's when the bystanders tried to pin him in. And they chase him for 100 miles an hour. They get his license plate and they're looking for him now. Now back to the Denny's parking lot scene. Paramedics arrive and they work on Jennifer for 20 minutes. But she's loaded into the ambulance and rushed to the hospital where she is pronounced dead at 3:47am despite the best efforts. I mean, her throat's been cut and she's been stabbed a lot. 8 stab or 11 stab wounds.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ish.

[James Petregallo]

8 to the front of her body, 3 to the back of her body. And her throat had been slashed so deeply that it almost completely severed her trachea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good lord.

[James Petregallo]

Horrifying, fucking terrifyingly brutal attack. Both hands showed defensive wounds where she tried to grab the knife blade. Brutal. Now, near the parking lot of Denny's, the police find a knife covered in blood. Yeah, pretty good find there. 5:35am is when they run the license plate and find it is registered to Dayton Leroy Rogers with an address in Canby. So they go, well, we know where we're going at six o' clock in the morning and it's fucking Canby. So they go knock on his door and Sherry answers the door. Hi, guys. And they said, ma', am, we're looking for Dayton Rogers. And he said, oh, he's at his shop. He works odd hours sometimes. Is everything okay?

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, ma'. Am.

[James Petregallo]

And the cops said at that point they could see she had no father fucking idea who her husband was. You could tell she was just like, oh, what can I do to help you? Like, just innocent as shit. They said the concern in her eyes was Real like she was worried something happened to him, right? So they were like, this is. This is crazy. They say, where's his shot, ma'? Am? She says, Woodburn. 11600 block of Pacific Court. DNS Small Engine Repair. And then she said, is Dayton in some kind of trouble? So they go to the shop, and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He'S there, is he?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's there. He's reeks of booze. His eyes are like cherry tomatoes, and his whole right hand is bandaged and bloody. And they said, what have you been up to tonight? And he said, quote, been here all night.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Been working on.

[James Petregallo]

Obviously. Yeah, you know how it goes. So they go, really? And this is just clever. Not even police work. This is something like a decent. Like a parent with a decent set of investigatory skills could manage cop goes over and touches his truck. Hood.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The hood? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He goes hot to the touch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hot.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, been here all night, huh?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's funny. Your truck hasn't. It must have just got here, buddy. How's that worked? So he said, oh, I mean, I was here all night. I went out for coffee a little while ago. I just got back. I went out for coffee. He said, I don't know what you're talking about, but I was out for coffee. That's why it's hot. But I'm here all night. I need coffee. And they go. They sniff and they go, it smells like coffee in here. And they look over, and there's a coffee maker with coffee being made right now, percolating.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why is that Mr. Coffee going, man?

[James Petregallo]

So they're like, huh, that doesn't seem right. And where's this coffee you bought? You don't have another coffee. You're making coffee, but you just got coffee, all right? And they said, what happened to your. What happened to your bandaged hand there, chief? What's up with that? He said, oh, I cut it with a hacksaw tonight. Yeah, you know how you do. You know I did that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The bush hook is out of control.

[James Petregallo]

That's wild. Now, later on, when he goes to the doctor for this, by the way, the ER doctor will say that the wounds are smooth and clean. Knife wounds, not a hacksaw. Nothing with teeth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Basically nothing serrated.

[James Petregallo]

So they go, hmm, Hot engine car connected to this bloody right hand. You're under arrest, dipshit. You're coming with us for sure. So then they search his truck now that they've arrested him. And there's fucking blood everywhere in here. Uh, oh, blood all over the place. There is Knife cuts on the dashboard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

When he's struggling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Goes into the dashboard. There's knife cuts on the ceiling, on the passenger door.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

It's crazy. They also find Jennifer Smith's fingerprint on the outside passenger door handle. So he can't say, I don't know who you're talking about. Someone stole whatever. So they also find knotted shoelaces in his truck, one of Jennifer Smith's tennis shoes and most of Smith's clothing near where he had parked his truck. This was like in a pile over in the corner of the outside. They also got evidence from his shop and truck. But the real crazy shit happened when they take him to jail. It's August. It's still. Well, we'll talk about this then. That. Okay, now here's what he did after the murder. He drove to his business, the small engine shop. Blood all over the passenger side of his truck. He tried to wash it out with a shop rag and a sponge.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

That much blood from cutting a woman's throat and stabbing her 11 times?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I got a. Yeah, a sponge.

[James Petregallo]

He burned his blood soaked clothing and a tennis shoe, one of the sneakers and some clothing that belonged to Jennifer Smith. In the wood shop. In the wood stove in the shop. So he burns up all that there. When the police arrived, his truck was parked in front and was still warm. And the cops saw blood on the front of the shop door. So when he opened the door, he wasn't even cleaned off, so they said. Strong odor of alcohol. And he told the detective that he had bought some miniatures at the liquor store. That's why he smelled of alcohol. What he had purchased was a 10 pack of vodka miniatures.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dang.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, interesting. And we'll find out how they connect by brand later on as well. Now, Jennifer Smith, her injuries, she bled to death from stab wounds from her chest. She also had stab wounds in her abdomen, her breasts and nipples. Oh, this is targeted. Yeah, very specific. A complex V shaped stab wound on her back as well. Somehow the stab wounds were consistent with the knife that was found near behind a nearby building after he ran away. She had numerous defensive wounds to her hands, arms and wrists and showed recent bruises that could have been caused by the knotted shoelaces that he used to bind her. Now he gets to jail. Okay, now if you're this guy, you're in jail, you're in trouble, you would shut the fuck up. Number one, A, shut the fuck up, or B, tell him everything you've ever done. One of the two this asshole calls wow. He calls his father in law, who, remember, he loves his father, Sherry's father, great guy, loves the guy. Calls him up and he calls him dad, by the way. And he says from jail, quote, because the cops had come search the house. And he said, dad, did they look in the wood stove? Oh boy, that's a scary thing. So the father in law used a magnet in the ashes to see if anything would come up. They end up finding bra clasps from 15 different bras.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

A metal. Metal shoe parts matching Jennifer's missing shoe. Colored glass and rhinestones that would be in like, you know, and like costume jewelry, that kind of shit. And star shaped grommets.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Little things that would stick in Levi jeans or something. Something like that. Yeah. A jean brand, that kind of thing. Okay. So that's what they find in there. And they're like, whoa, this is a lot. This is a lot. She doesn't want her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She doesn't have 15 titties.

[James Petregallo]

Just gonna say she's not wearing 15 bras. She'd have to have 30 tits for that, right? 30 tits. She'd need the 30 titted woman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She doesn't have that many.

[James Petregallo]

No. She could charge much extra for that if she had 30 tits. So. Wow. Now, August 31st, 1987, it's been four weeks, almost three and a half weeks sitting in jail. Okay. Just hanging out while he's doing that. Out in the Molalla forest there, there's a guy named Evan Barnyard, or Banyard, I'm sorry, Everett Banyard. He's a bow hunter and he's been hunting around these areas for decades. Yeah, years and years. He knew all the trails, all the clearings. Everything there is a 90 acre private timberland. And that's where he goes. Or 90,000 acre private timberland. Wow. That's where he goes. Yeah, that's where he goes. He hunts there. He's been scouting for the upcoming season, looking for signs of deer movement, checking mineral licks, you know that what you do, checking all the deer activity. Let's see if they've been licking this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is a very secluded, mountainous, out of the way area. You don't find this unless you're real local and come here all the time. Yeah, it's not, it's not effortless. It takes some effort to get there basically. But this guy knew where he was going because he'd been there for decades. So that's what he's doing. He turns right off Highway 211 at the Matthias intersection. Drove About a quarter mile to Fryer Park Road, turn left. This is for your locals out there. Until Friar Park. Intersected with South Dickey Prairie Road. South Dickey Prairie Road. There. Banyard turned right onto Dickey Prairie Road and continued in a southeasterly direction. This is going somewhere, I promise. Crossed over the Glen Avon Bridge over the Molalla river and made a right turn. That put him onto the Molalla Forest Road, which follows the winding course of the river and takes you past a bunch of recreation areas where there's swimmers and fishermen and hikers and all these type of people. Here. After about 500 yards, there's a fork in the road where you can go left or right now, the right portion was a gravel road and was blocked off. Had a fence up. So he goes to the left side and continues for about three miles all the way through here until he reached Molalla Forest. Okay. Which is an old logging road that takes you deeper into the mountain and forest and everything. Here. He continued along this gravel covered, steep road going west past a flat portion or a plateau surrounded by a bunch of dense fern and brushes and Douglas fir trees. Then there's another gravel road that begins a steep ascent for approximately a quarter mile, at which point it swings to the left and continues around the mountain southwardly, going further. What I'm saying is remote. This is as remote as it gets. And if you didn't know where you're going, you would be lost in two fucking minutes and you'd never be found. You're taking a Sasquatch bride so far.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's it. You'd be blowing a Sasquatch by the end of the night, because that's all that's out there for you. So he ends up there going in that way and the point where the Molalla Forest 75, that road swings down to the south. There's another road, a small dirt and partially graveled logging spur road that wound around to the north. He took that road, which he followed for about 200ft until he came to yet another fork in the road. One part of the road continued straight at that point, but it wasn't accessible by vehicle because it was blocked by fallen trees. The other part of the road continued up a steep grade in a northwesterly direction for 300 yards where it dead ended at another landing or flat area. He turned his pickup around there and just before the Y in the road and used the extra turnaround space to park. So this is what he's doing. He went, this is some serious shit. To go scouting. So a lot of this area, this is where the local hunters go. They know this area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is what you gotta do to get a deer. I don't want anything to do with it.

[James Petregallo]

Too much, too much. By the time I'm out there, I'm like, that was beautiful. So let's go home now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let's leave it when you're out here. Goodbye.

[James Petregallo]

That was a great drive. Where are we going now? Like, what, are we gonna sit here for fucking five hours now? So the area has a lot of spent shell casings from people shooting and stuff like that. A lot of trash and debris. They said that you can tell it's used by everybody from hunters to teenagers out here having keg parties and shit like that, and people just dumping their trash. So he said this is a good place to be to hunt, though. He goes here all the time. So he's got a crossbow and his arrows, and he climbs out of his pickup and looks around, and he's looking for deer and looking for hoof marks and droppings and shit like that. He spots a fern that had been smashed down. And farther toward the forest, he saw what looked like a fresh patch that might have been a deer crossing. So he's like, I better go investigate that. So he's like, this is where the deer are. So he gets his crossbow and they walk. He walks down. After a few yards, he smells something terrible. Now, this guy works at a fertilizer plant.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. And he said, this is terrible.

[James Petregallo]

Number one, too. That and he. A lot of times he has a bad smell in his nose that won't go away type of thing. So that's a. So he doesn't know if it's that or him or what it is. So he just kept walking and he kept walking. Soon, though, he said, man, this is not a deer crossing. A person did this. Maybe some teenagers who came to drink beer or some bullshit like that. So there is a small clearing off to the right Only a few yards before the forest slopes downward into a huge steep decline that eventually ends up in a cliff. Yeah, so that we're up in the mountains here. Now, from this vantage point, he said it looked like there was something lying beneath these ferns here that he could see. And he said he couldn't see what it was. He couldn't make it out. So he approaches the ferns and the odors getting worse and worse and worse. He now believed that someone probably poached a deer and gutted it out here and left the guts under some fern. So nobody Would see because it's illegal. But he uses the. Jesus. He takes his toe of his boot and pushes the dried ferns away, and he sees an exposed buttocks, thigh, and calf of a human body.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

So he freaks out, runs back to the where he came from, jumped in his truck and went home. He called the sheriff's department and reported what he saw.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Gonna give them those directions. Best of luck, boys.

[James Petregallo]

That's the problem is he then has to go out there. Yeah, he has to take the cop out there. Yeah, Like I don't know where the fuck you're talking about. Exactly. So there's no address, you guys, you know, Jesus. So they took. Now it's dark out, too. So now there's him and some cop going deep into the woods in the dark. Lights with flashlights, and they started to smell it. They shine the light in the area, and the cop said, yep, that looks like a dead person. You got that? So he went back to his car, reported it into the detectives and everything like that. So they said that we all have to meet. They can't just give him a location. So he said, okay, we'll all meet at a market off Highway 211, and then we'll all. We'll all take a fucking caravan up here. So that's what they do. So this one detective arrives on September 1st, and they're looking for body. They're looking for this body and how to get the rest of it. So, okay. The county medical examiner who had been at the site the previous night said that. Because they took him out just to make sure. And he comes back to process everything. He says the body is almost mummified and appeared leathery and shiny. He didn't. Couldn't tell the gender of the corpse, but said it was definitely nude. The body was in a prone position with dead leaves and debris around. He said that a hand was visible, but it was unusually positioned, as if the body had been tossed into the ferns. The body was visible from the waist down, nude. And there was no clothing in any proximity to it. The upper torso pointed to the southeast, legs pointed to the northwest. So that way the left leg was lying under the right leg and was straight. The right leg was bent with the ankle lying on top of the left leg near the left ankle area. There was a white plastic bottle lying next to the left leg, its spout facing the ankle. There was also a rusty can nearby. So they start taking pictures and everything like that. The fact that the body is nude and hidden under some fucking foliage tells them that this is definitely a murder, probably even if they can't see wounds. So at 10:22am they finished their photography here, and the medical examiner entered the scene and started removing brush from the body. Now they've got all the pictures. Now they actually have to extricate this person from the ground. So he pulls ferns off the upper torso and head areas and exposes the body. The left arm was extended straight out from the shoulder in a direct parallel line with the body, and the right arm crossed under the torso with the right hand lying down between the legs, kind of like if you were sleeping and you put your hand between your legs instead of a pillow. There was also significant maggot activity in the groin area. And it was obvious that large amount of liquid had oozed into the underlying brush and soil putrefaction. So the skull bone was exposed where the scalp and curly, light brown, almost blonde hair had slipped back during decomposition. So it was like sloughing off the head. It was noted that her left foot was missing. Oh, gone. Severed just above the ankle and not in the immediate area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They didn't know whether the missing foot was animals or a perpetrator, but later on, they'll see that it was not chewed off, it was cut off. So three minutes later, they're pulling ferns and brush from the area around the body. And when they're doing that, they discover another body.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Another body very nearby. A second body. They're like, holy shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Graveyard.

[James Petregallo]

This is a graveyard is what this says. They find this body in a fetal position on its right side, facing northeast. Left arm extended, hand open, fingers extending straight out. Both feet were missing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Both feet were missing. Sawed off at the ankle level. So now they're like, okay, these missing feet are not animals. We got two women and one foot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We got a problem.

[James Petregallo]

This is a fucking problem. And they said, this body is also nude and decomposed. So they finish taking the photographs here, and they start from the road's edge and began seizing evidence as they walk toward the bodies, anything on the ground they're grabbing just in case. They're trying to make clear an area around the bodies that they can work and not step on. Crime scene shit. Basically no contamination or anything like that. As they work, they also collect samples, soil samples, dead ferns that covered the bodies. The white plastic bottle, the rusted can, a piece of fiber cord that's red in color. They found a glass bottle near the head of the first body. They found an empty Bud Light beer can near that Victim's left hand and a small clear liquor bottle in the stand of ferns that overlooked the bodies. Okay. At 12:30, while they're collecting all this, one of the cops calls out to the other one, quote, hey, Mike, you better get over here. I just found another one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

They said. He said another what? Yeah, and he said another body. Like, holy shit. We thought you meant another piece of evidence or something. The third body is about 15ft north of the first two. It's resting against a tree in a supine position, and the left arm is extended vertically like the others. Also nude. The odor is extremely strong here as well. Now, the one officer detective observes a gaping cut or incision that extended from the area of the groin up toward the sternum. Cut open, gutted like a fish. So he could see the vertebral column and the left iliac or iliac bone through the opening. He saw maggots moving about, concentrated on and near the right side of the head. He's like, this is fucking crazy. At this point, the lead detective says, everybody out of the forest now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Too many.

[James Petregallo]

We have no fucking idea when we're stepping on a crime scene.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stop finding bodies.

[James Petregallo]

Stop it. No, everybody out. Because, yeah, you're walking around, you're gonna trip over one and ruin this crime scene. So they're like, holy shit. Everybody stopped. And also decided that additional personnel would be needed and they need to set up a command post and a grid system and all this type of shit. So they do. At 5pm the canine arrives. The canine unit tracking dog, a German shepherd named Colt. So Colt and this detective began searching the vicinity of the bodies. Fifteen minutes later, Colt found number four.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Another. It was 40ft north of body number three, resting in the same position deep within the brush and BlackBerry vines, partially covered by a mound of dried dirt. The pelvis and lower vertebral columns was tilted somewhat vertically toward the left, exposing a portion of the rib cage. No clothes. Honor. Near the remains like everybody else.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Now, this corpse, unlike the others, though, this one is mostly skeletonized. So these are all in different states of decomposition. Yeah. So this is. They think that's been there the longest. The skull is almost completely devoid of flesh, except for a small amount of leathery, dried and desiccated tissue in the left temporal region. Wow. Long, unattached, reddish brown hair remained around the skull. And there was a small band of leathery skin that passed around the lower lumbar vertebral region and similarly around the left femur. The body was so decomposed that they couldn't even smell anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

That's how. Decomposed. That's insane. At 6:35pm a reserve officer assisting with the search. A seizure of everything calls out to the group. Hey, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, shut up.

[James Petregallo]

I found another one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes, of course you did.

[James Petregallo]

I found more. It was located 50 yards west of body number four. That's a good distance. Half a football field in a small triangular open area in the woods, separated from the other bodies by the road. So this is on the other side of the road. Is it long been there? The longest, yeah. Well, this one was nude as well. Now it was actively decomposing and partially mummified, so. No, it's one of the newer ones in a prone position, its head facing downward into a large growth of fern. The right side of the skull was skeletonized, but not to the extent that the last body was number four. So maybe it looks like it's the second one that was put here. Compared to those two, I mean, there could be a hundred more. They said that the hands were bound behind the back with a dark green, 1 inch wide belt that may have been a dog collar. And there were several circular and irregularly shaped defects in the lower back and right buttocks and the right foot had been sawed off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Damn it.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, now the immediate thing everybody thinks is holy shit, the Green River Killer has come down here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he's gotten a new thing that.

[James Petregallo]

He'S doing and he's into something different. That's the only reason why they don't think it's the Green River Killer after a while is because of the missing feet. Otherwise they're convinced this is the Green River Killer because if you look, we just did patreons on this. Whereas Ted Bundy was trying to help them find the, the, you know, the Green River Killer. He had. And Ted Bundy did the same thing. That's why they went to Bundy or that's why Bundy, when he offered help, they went to him because they had the same thing they did. They killed these women and they had burial sites where they buried many of them. They put a bunch there, then go to another site. When they thought that site was compromised or something, they'd go somewhere else. There's too many. So with Green river, we know of a bunch of his sites and Ted Bundy too. There are so many we don't know about. Yeah, Ted Bundy. There could have been 30 more sites with much many girls and Green river too. We have no idea how many people he Killed. So. And when they find out who the girls were and what their profession was and things like that, some of them, or at least what they were out doing, they think, holy shit, it's the fucking Green River Killer. Just came to Portland. Got too hot in Seattle and he came to Portland. This makes all the sense in the world. So they said there was considerable. At 7:20pm they called off the first day of search. Considerable talk among investigators and everyone in the entire area that, holy shit, the Green River Killer's here now, man. Because also in 1985, Oregon authorities in Washington county found the remains of four young women near the Portland suburb of Tillotin, two of which were identified as Denise Darcel Bush, 23, and Shirley Marie Sherrill, 18, both Seattle area girls who were doing prostitution at the time and whose deaths were attributed to the Green River Killer. They said, that might be this guy. We just gave that to him. But because we didn't know anybody else that was doing this. But maybe not. They said the. It's very interesting. They said that because the Molalla Forest bodies had been cluster dumped in an outdoor location like the Green River Killer. They said that, you know, they notified the Green River Task Force in Seattle to see if maybe. And they talked to Dave Reichert. Remember, we talked a lot about Dave Reichert, Detective Reichert. And provided an opportunity for the Green River Task Force to send a representative to Oregon so they could watch this. So there is literally a Green River Task Force member at this site. The next day. Wow. Now, that day they found five bodies in various stages of decomposition, all nude, all showing knife wounds. Three victims had their feet sawn off at the ankles. Others showed marks on thigh bones where their cutting had started. Wow. One of the victims, who was Nandis Cervantes, that's the one who was cut from the pubic area all the way up to the breastbone. Now, what they also find scattered around all these bodies are miniature vodka bottles, shitloads of clear booze bottles, and orange juice containers, really. Same brands that they found in Dayton's truck, by the way. Uh oh. The next day they go searching for more. The next nine days, 200 people are gonna search. They grid out the entire Forest into 25 foot squares and that's it. So they said, quote, if it doesn't grow, bag it as evidence. If it's not, if roots aren't in the ground, if it doesn't have a tail, fucking throw it in the bag.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No photosynthesis. Bring it to the fucking lab. Let's go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go. So on day six of this searching, there's two detectives, Turner and Machado, and they walk about a quarter mile away from the scene to have a cigarette break. A place where they could, you know, not contaminate. They're standing there, they light up cigarettes. And Detective Turner said, you smell that, Mike?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

20Ft away from them, another body.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

Another fucking body. So altogether, seven bodies they find in the forest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

At this one site, seven. Wow. They perform autopsies and determine the type of death caused each of the women. They couldn't tell at first by looking, but once they get into it, they know a little more. But it's all homicidal. Violence, basically, is what they rule it on. They estimate that the bodies had been in the forest from one to three months, depending on the bodies. Some a month, some three months. Because of the decomposition. They couldn't rule out strangulation as causes of death because they couldn't determine whether the various wounds. Wounds had been inflicted before or after death. So here are the victims, and here are what they happened to them. One is, and I put them kind of in the order of when I thought he put them here, because we don't know for sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No idea.

[James Petregallo]

So Cynthia Diane Devore, she was 21 years old, had an eight month old daughter, I believe at the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She was trying to make ends meet. She was doing a little bit on the side. Trying to make ends meet. Fucking sad. Her body was totally skeletonized, the upper back, revealing stab injuries. That's the one that they didn't even smell anymore. Riatha Guy. Giles, or Giles, G y L E S. 16 years old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

High school student. No connection to the street. Drugs, sex, work, nothing. Just picked her up, literally picked her up on the side of the road. Six stab wounds to the lower back. The bone of one lower leg had been sawed through and the foot had been sawed at the ankle. One foot missing. Lisa Marie. Lisa Marie Mock, I believe. Or is it? It's Mock, I believe. Lisa Marie Mock, 23 years old. She was a pretty big, severe drug addict and a regular on the Portland streets. But she was about to inherit a bunch of money. Like a shitload of money.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Damn it.

[James Petregallo]

She was identified by her distinctive tattoos. She had both feet removed. So I think we go from no feet removed, one feet removed, one foot removed, two feet removed is probably the progression of how this works. Deep stab wounds to the lower back region. Both feet had been sawed off at the ankle and were Found underneath the body, there were multiple saw marks on the right thigh bone, just above the knee. Then Christine lotus Adams, she's 35, by the way. Different races, different ages, no fucking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just women.

[James Petregallo]

Very Green River. Like that's the other reason why they thought it was Green River. Because Ted Bundy, you know who his victims are. You find a 38 year old lady with 20 extra pounds on her ass, that ain't Ted Bundy's, you know what I mean? You find a cute college girl, that's Ted Bundy. Whereas Green river, it could be anybody. Any time, any age, any race, doesn't matter. Now this girl, this woman here, Christine Lotus Adams, she had a 15 year old daughter. The star shaped grommets that were found in the stove are from her pants we find later on. Absolutely. Stab wounds to the back. Right foot had been severed at the ankle. Hands bound by a dog collar with the arms above the head. When the body was found, Maureen Ann Hodges, 26 years old, also from Portland, vanished around the same time as. As Lisa did. The Lisa Marie Mock woman. Jesus Christ. This is fucking horrible. She was a. Also a drug user, A known drug user. Her remains were scattered by animals. The legs below the knees were not found. And the lower back revealed stabbing injuries. Nandis Noni Cervantes, she's from Tempe, Arizona.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Arizona.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, she is the most brutally mutilated of anybody. She is. They think that when they. When he cut her from fucking groin.

[Jimmy Wissman]

To breastbone against the tree.

[James Petregallo]

They think she was still alive, for Christ's sake. They think she. Absolutely. They tortured her. Pretty much. Abdomen split open with a sharp object from below the breastbone to the pubic area. Right nipple appeared to have been cut and the left nipple had. Appeared to have been cut and removed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeesh.

[James Petregallo]

They think this all happened while she's alive. While she's alive. Body number seven, they cannot identify. No, they have an unidentified young lady. They don't know. Which is sad. Very, very sad. We'll have an update on that later. So now, the site where all these bodies were found, that's when they found 38 miniature bottles of that particular brand of vodka that Dayton liked to drink.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a lot.

[James Petregallo]

A cardboard sleeve that would hold 10 miniature vodka bottles, you know, like they give you at the store. And 34 orange juice containers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

He's been here a lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Partying out here.

[James Petregallo]

Which. What does that tell you?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He comes back.

[James Petregallo]

He comes back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's way more vodka and orange juice than victims, right? He comes back just like Green River. Just like Ted Bundy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He comes back, watch out.

[James Petregallo]

What do you think he does with those bodies when he comes back? Disgusting. Shit. A knife with human tissue on it was found near two of the bodies. They also found several items that had been tied into knots, including pantyhose, shoelaces, rope and cloth. Never trust that boy scout who's too good at knots, by the way. That's gonna be real weird. Ted Bundy loved knots and he said that all the time. They also found a dog collar in addition to the one that was binding one of their hands and feet. Remember that? Or hands, remember. They found a matching dog collar to that. Also pieces of wire they found. The knife that they found is the same kind and brand as the one he dumped behind the building next to The Denny's on August 7th as well. He's not good at covering his tracks. I mean, basically, when you put shit out there, it's like if no one ever finds it, I'm fine. But if anyone ever finds all this, I'm fucked.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or, I don't know. You just figure it. It's out in the middle of nowhere. Nobody will ever tie this to me.

[James Petregallo]

But wouldn't you look around and see shell casings and shit and go, hunters come here. Bad spot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

People are here.

[James Petregallo]

People come here. But I guess he didn't think about it. Now, items found earlier in his truck and shop, they seized a hacksaw that could have caused the marks on the legs of a lot of these forest victims. I think he was doing it right at the shop where he was taking them. From the ashes of the shop's wood stove, they found a shoe shank, eyelets and swivels from Smith's other tennis shoe, shoe shanks from two pairs of other shoes. Shoe eyes. You put the glazes through shoe nails like a sole being nailed on, like a dress shoe. Burned and partially burned fabric, numerous bra parts, snap fasteners, decorative metal parts, and clothing studs from women's clothing included star, including star shaped studs later identified as studs from Adam's pants buttons, numerous zipper parts, earring pieces and belt buckles. They also took his boots, which also had blood stains on them. In his truck, they found a bungee cord, a green pull tab from a juice container similar to the containers found at the forest crime scene. Numerous blood stains, several human hairs. Some of the blood stains found were made by type O blood, the same subtype as Jennifer Smith's blood. Type O is also the same subtype as the defendant as his blood Subtype and is inconsistent with Smith's blood. Subtype was also found. Oh. Other blood that was inconsistent with Jennifer Smith was also found in the truck that wasn't his or hers. Okay. Cervantes and Adams also had type O blood. Giles blood was type A. Of the human hairs in the that were found, several were microscopically similar to the mock woman's hair. Two hairs were consistent with Cervantes and two hairs with Devore's hair. That woman. So they also noticed all the knife wounds there. So they put together kind of a little. This is a lot. This is crazy shit. They put together kind of a figure out his patterns, basically. And they said he would definitely head to Portland's Union Avenue. All the street ladies there knew him as Steve the gambler from Vegas or Reno. Never haggled about price, always paid cash. Didn't say, like, I'll give you a hit of crack or something. He always paid in cash, didn't haggle about price. He'd stop at a convenience store for orange juice, pour in vodka from the miniatures he had while driving. Then he'd take them to the forest. Start with bondage, shoelaces, wire, whatever was handy. Then he'd get the knife, he'd cut some, he'd bite some, sometimes for hours. Basically, if they fought back, he would kill them and saw off their feet and burn their clothes in his shop's wood stove, clean the car at a car wash, wash out the interior, then go home to Sherry and go to church the next day and act like he's a great family man. This is a dangerous guy, dude. I mean, just a serial killer. Straight up. Straight.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he's been doing this for years.

[James Petregallo]

Straight. Ted Bundy, Green River BTK kind of cat. Then women start coming forward with stories. One woman who survived one of his attacks, named Carol, before now, they didn't detail to the public. They just put out, they found bodies. They didn't detail the feet being cut off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So this woman asked the prosecutors, did any of the victims have their feet cut off?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then she showed them her ankle, which was a healed wound with ragged edges on it, where she said, he started cutting on my leg with a hacksaw.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So they sent her to the doctor, and they confirmed it was cuts from a hacksaw on her bone. Wow. So that means that they believe. This is fucking insane, but they believe Dayton. Totally. They believe that Dayton was cutting these women's feet off while they were alive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

Based on this lady that seems to be his jam okay. Another one of ladies that have been with him is Susan. She had been with him 20 to 30 times, really. She was his favorite. One night, they went up near the forest there. He started cutting her feet with a knife. She was tied up and she couldn't in the middle of the woods. So she's like, I'm fucked. She said, there's no reason to scream because no one's gonna hear me anyway. So she told him, quote, just kill me. Get it over with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

And she said that's when he stopped dead in his tracks. Stopped, started the car back up and started driving away. Over with. Drove her back to Portland, dropped her off at her spot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No problem.

[James Petregallo]

She said. She walked away with my shoes full of blood. That's what she said. And so if you surrender and stop fighting, he has no interest in you. If you fight, he wants to cut your feet off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

This is crazy. Now, February of 1988 is the trial for Jennifer Smith. That's the first trial, Just the one. They can't mention any of the forest stuff because he hasn't been convicted of that. It's just Jennifer Smith. And they think based on the forensics and the witnesses, they have a lot of evidence here. So the district attorney addresses the jury in the opening statements. Wow. He. It's a jury of five women and seven men. And he says, you know, Dayton murdered Jenny. He had a plan to do it. He followed a pattern he's established with countless other women. And, yeah, he said that he's a vicious predator who killed for sexual thrill. He said, you'll find the reason he went to Portland was to satisfy what you will find to be his bizarre sexual appetite. You'll find his sexual appetite including bondage, masturbation, and intent to inflict intense physical pain.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The defense, on the other hand, how do you defend this?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wasn't me.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Well, it gets worse, actually. He tells the jurors that they listen. You're not going to like my client, but you're not here to decide whether he's an asshole or not. You're here to decide whether he's a murderer. He said, yes, he did kill Jenny Smith. That's a fact.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

It's indisputable. He said, that's right. He said, nobody's denying it, but he killed her by accident while defending himself. Because you. You know, when you're defending yourself, you stab someone 11 times in both sides of their body and cut their throat. Yeah, that's how it works. Obviously. That's what he said. He stressed that, Listen, you know, this is. He's got weird sexual stuff. That's fine, but ignore that. He mentioned that Jenny had spotted more than $200 in Dayton's wallet when they stopped at a convenience store to buy orange juice. They say at which time she made the decision to rob him at knife point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She waited until later when they arrived in a parking lot. The, you know, the Denny's parking lot had drunk some of the screwdriver and Dayton had got out of the truck to take a leak. At that time, they say Jenny pulled a knife from the glove compartment of Dayton's truck and brought it up next to his throat, demanding his wallet. When he came back, he wouldn't hand it over and a struggle ensued. He said that turned into a wrestling match for the knife. And during the struggle, she'd been stabbed several times and killed purely by accident. That is the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's, it's. It's a theory.

[James Petregallo]

If, if there was one stab wound and it was like sticking out of her neck while he stood over the body going, help, help, then it would be believable. Maybe. But this is not. At one point, the prosecutor had portions of his truck brought into the courtroom as exhibits.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

They took it apart, man. Criminologists and detectives pointed out evidence, mostly blood cuts and slash marks and fingerprints that have been found on the trucks door handles and panels and door sill trays, seat frames, floor mats, floor covering, seat bolts, and the actual seat and frame themselves. Some of the fingerprints were Jenny's and many of the blood stains were believed to have come from Jenny and Dayton and other people as well. Not only that, remember the. The 1972, 15 year old that he stabbed? They bring her in to testify. Oh, we can talk about that because it's similar too. It's in the truck, the same deal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he's convicted of that.

[James Petregallo]

And he's convicted. She showed off a six inch scar and described him as having, quote, cold black eyes when he stabbed her. No remorse, no feeling. Now the medical examiner comes in as well, and they have pictures of the wounds depicted that he'd inflicted while he's defending himself. And they're like, yeah, these wounds here, it'd be over here, there'd be no more. No need to further defend yourself. They're like, this wound pierced the liver and severed one of her major arteries. They said the rest are torture wounds to her breasts and defensive wounds while trying to attempt to fight her off. This was somebody enjoying what they were doing. Yeah. They said that Dayton was left handed in courtroom testimony, but there's an issue of whether he received the wounds to his right hand from a hacksaw, as he had said, or whether they were incurred during his struggle with Jenny Smith. People close to the case believed he was ambidextrous.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Though they could never prove that in court. Basically. They said. Basically that he was. He had cut himself as he slashed Jenny with the knife in his left hand while trying to hold her with his right hand. So they think he was holding her and he accidentally stabbed himself because he was on top of her. And it's all bloody and slippery. This guy takes the stand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Dude, let's talk. What? Yeah, let's. This is a circus now. So he takes the stand in an aggravated murder case, and in his version of the events, he told the jurors that he paid her $40 for a sexual encounter that involved bondage. This was all above board. He said he got out of the truck to urinate after having bound her hands and feet with shoelaces, but she slipped out of the bindings and took the knife from the glove box. And he said, quote, she attacked me when I got back inside the truck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said she was still nude but holding a knife to my throat and ordering me to give over my wallet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

You ever been robbed at knifepoint by a nude woman? Has anyone ever been robbed at knifepoint by a completely naked woman?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll give you whatever you want.

[James Petregallo]

Sure. Why not? You didn't need the knife, really. That's the thing. You could have just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Real nice. Here you go.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. Thank you. I guess, for the visual. That's how pathetic we are. You don't even need the knife. So that's his story, though. He said he refused and fought back. He said he felt feared for her. His life. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I took a nipple.

[James Petregallo]

I was scared. I took it with me for fucking safekeeping. He knocked her arm away and wrestled her for the knife, which he eventually wrenched from her hands. He said, I got a hold of it and used the knife on her. I was just going back and forth in virtually any direction I could. That's why she had so many cuts. He said she eventually jumped from the truck and he chased her across the parking lot, eventually grabbing her as she fell to the pavement. And that's when he tripped over her. Okay. If you were so afraid of her. And then she got out and ran away. Threat fucking over. Yeah, yeah, threat over. Awesome. You win. But no, he had to go chase her. He said both our feet entangled. I don't want to hear you talking about feet, sir. She went down backward and I fell down on top of her on the way down. That's when I stabbed her in the upper area here. Talking about the right side of his chest, over by the shoulder area. So that's his excuse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a crazy story.

[James Petregallo]

So, I mean, but you never know. If a guy gets up there and tells it, the jury might believe it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the thing.

[James Petregallo]

So during closing arguments here, the defense attorney says this is the understatement of the year. I know you find my clients contacts with prostitutes vile and disgusting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I know.

[James Petregallo]

He says you have no sympathy for my client. I know you don't like Mr. Rogers. Poor Mr. Rogers. I know you don't like Mr. Rogers. Wow, Mr. Rogers Forest neighborhood here. This is horrifying. And you don't like what he's done to these girls? He's not here for a popularity contest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Understatements. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. If he was going to go out on one of his usual dates and torture and sexually abuse a woman, where would he go? Would he go to one of the few establishments in Clackamas county that's open at 1 or 2 in the morning? Like. No, he'd obviously go somewhere, somewhere more remote. He raised self defense in this case. He said a defense against. And then. Yeah, he said that. Then the prosecutor said he raised self defense in this case. Self defense against what? A naked bleeding woman? What are we talking about? He said the defendant's claim of robbery is hogwash. I like that. Hogwash. Pure hogwash. Jenny Smith was naked. If a prostitute is going to rob a customer, a john, she knows she's got to get away. What is she supposed to have said? Mr. Rogers, take the knife for a minute so I can get my clothes back on and get away? Exactly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hold this.

[James Petregallo]

So the verdict comes in.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

This takes two weeks of deliberation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Two weeks.

[James Petregallo]

Twelve reasonably intelligent adults. Taxpayers couldn't decide whether he's guilty of this in two weeks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Feels like it was probably much less than 12, right? Probably. One dude was probably like, nah.

[James Petregallo]

Then the other 11 should have fucking worked him over with a rubber hose till he figured this one out. This is an odd. This isn't like, oh, you know, all the jurors, everybody has their own own, you know, give everybody a chance to go over it. Fuck you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

12 angry men.

[James Petregallo]

No, not at all. So they finally, they come to a conclusion here in a verdict and they Find him guilty of aggravated murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

Now, during sentencing, death penalty on the table, mind you, the court, they say that during the guilt phase, the court refused to permit the introduction of evidence regarding the forest victims. The state didn't offer that evidence during the penalty phase either. Here in the penalty phase, the jury was asked three questions. This is by the judge asking three questions. Now the questions are, number one, Was the conduct of the defendant, Dayton Leroy Rogers that caused the death of Jennifer Lisa Smith committed deliberately and with the result of expectation. With the reasonable expectation that the death of Jennifer Lisa Smith would result? That's question one. Seems like a pretty clear yes on that one. Number two, is there a probability that the defendant who would commit or would commit criminal acts of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to society, will he keep doing this? And then three, was the conduct of the defendant in killing the deceased, Jennifer Lisa Smith, unreasonable in response to the provocation, if any, by the deceased? They answered no to the first two questions.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

No. They said that what he did, he didn't do deliberately and with the reasonable expectation of death. If you cut someone's throat, you should expect them to die.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're gonna live through that. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And is there a probability that he would commit further acts of violence that would be a threat to society? They went, no, he's good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

11 stab wounds and neck slashed.

[James Petregallo]

One time thing, man, she shouldn't have went for his wallet. And then they do say yes to the third, meaning it was an unreasonable provocation. So that tells you exactly where the jury was at. They believe that she tried to rob him. They believe that, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're on board with it.

[James Petregallo]

They're on board. That is insane. So although the jury concluded it was an unreasonable response, it did not conclude that he had acted deliberately when he killed Smith. They didn't think it was deliberate and did not conclude it was probable that he would commit acts in the future. Therefore, they cannot sentence him to death because they don't find the aggravators. He is sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off. Life with parole after 30 years.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

Okay. That's okay. Now, after the conviction, Roger's lawyer, Dayton's lawyer goes to the prosecutors. This is after sentencing and after everything. And he knows that now they're making the cases. They're gonna try all the forest murders at the same time. He says, quote, if you don't seek death penalty for the Forrest murders, he'll tell you where the rest of the bodies are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

How many bodies are there, Jimmy? How many?

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Many, So many. There's probably three, four more sites with eight, nine different women in it.

[James Petregallo]

He didn't just start doing that three months before they caught him. There's no fucking way on earth. No way in the world. Wow. They said that the metal in his wood stove suggested more than eight victims because there's too many bra clasps, too many shoe parts. So he's indicted for the forest killings, aggravated murder and everything else. Two counts of aggravated murder for each victim. So he's in deep shit. And also in the course of sexual abuse, aggravated murder in the course of sexual abuse, all this shit. This somehow is an all female jury. All ladies on this jury, they accepted that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Huh?

[James Petregallo]

Wow. I don't know if he thought that they would upstanding women would think that these girls were beneath them or deserved it or whatever the fuck. Or if that he has a terrible lawyer who doesn't go, jesus Christ, they're gonna attack him with their purses. Halfway through this fucking thing, they're gonna scratch his eyes out. So they bring in the forensic evidence. They found the colored glass in a victim's hair that matched the glass in his stove.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Uh oh.

[James Petregallo]

They found victim's hair in his truck. They found, they testified, a relative of his testified about finding evidence in the wood stove. That's the father in law. This guy, the father in law broke down crying twice and wouldn't look. Over at Dayton, a 15 year old identified her mother's star shaped gene studs found in the ashes. That poor girl. Imagine that. This poor girl is 15 fucking years old. Not only is her mother murdered, but she has to go testify about pieces of jeans of her mother's. That's horrifying. They said the orange juice containers and vodka bottles are his signature, like the mark of Zorro. The prosecutors said he might as well have written his name on the corpses.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Absolutely true.

[James Petregallo]

It's true. They said what is the ultimate act of dominance for him to remove that foot? We submit that's what happened in the Molalla Forest. They bring in 11 ladies to testify against him. 11 people that he has done business with in the past here. And wow. One testified about his conduct during the encounters. Jesus Christ. This is Carol Van Size. Oh, this is horrifying. She says that she was working on the streets in 87 as a prostitute. And he picked her up and had bitten and pinched her breasts hard enough to draw blood and used a knife to cut the heel of her right foot. She said, he told me he was going to have to cut my breasts off. Or strangle me. I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna have to. I told him he wasn't gonna cut my breasts off. He'd have to kill me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not gonna let you do that. So they asked if she was afraid during the torture. And she said, afraid, but sick of it. She said at one point, she just told him, you know what? Go ahead, do it. Another one. If you're on the street and you've had a tough life and all that kind of shit, at some point you're like, you know what? Fucking go ahead. I don't fucking care anymore. And that's what she said. And she said, at that point, done. No more interest. He quit. He stopped, and he was fucking done. Same thing. Countless, countless stories, they said. There's been. They brought out a ton of stories from women to testify against him. Another, named Sandra Scott, said that he tied her up and bit her brutally the year before. Another, named Marie Johnson, said that he tortured her during 1986 during an encounter, basically. It's terrifying. There was testimony concerning all of them. They said, now when he's driving away, does he drink anything? And they go, oh, yeah, he's got an orange juice and he has little mini vodka bottles, and he pours in. Every single one of them said that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So that just ties him so dead to rights to that shit. Several of them also testified that he took them to areas near where all these bodies were found in the forest out there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What a wild guy.

[James Petregallo]

Several of them also said that they willingly accompanied him out there and did so because they didn't think he was going to hurt them. When they did hurt them, several of them said that he refused to untie them and take them back to the city. One said she jumped out of the truck naked to escape him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

One described six hours of torture in the forest. He was biting and tearing at my breasts. When I screamed too loud, he'd put something against my neck. I assumed a knife. Told me to be quiet or I'd really have something to cry about. Which is exactly what an abusive father says to their fucking son. He's. How long has he been using that line that his dad used on him? They said, what were you doing then? And she said, just existing. Meaning, what were you doing for a living? The prosecutor says, quote, he's capable of fooling psychologists. He's capable of fooling psychiatrists. I hope to God he's not capable of fooling you. Yeah. Jury needs six hours of deliberation. And that just might be because there's so many charges and so much to go over. And they find him absolutely guilty as balls of every goddamn thing. They go, is there anything else you want to charge him with? We'll just write guilty on it. Just tell us now. We'll put it on there. We don't care. June of 1989 is sentencing for this. Death penalty on the table. Aggravators coming out of his asshole. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for this asshole. Uh oh, finally they got this guy for something. Now some thoughts on the crimes after this. Because they got something, a lot of criminologists talk about it and people like that, they're studying this guy like they would, like they did with Green river or Ted Bundy. One said, this guy thought that, thought that was a sexual thrill, the torture. And another said for sexually sadistic killers like Rogers, murder can be very pleasurable compared with normal sexual experiences. There's just no comparison. And the medical examiner said, I've never seen anything like that before or since. Stabbing, cutting, sawing, that's all pretty rough stuff. And they said, basically, the fact that he didn't kill the women who gave in is not something that women should look at in case they're in this situation because it's different with every guy. Some guys, if you give up, it pisses them off. They want you to resist and they'll kill you for that. Some guys want you to fight and then they'll let you go. Some guys, whatever their trigger is, you don't know. That's the thing, you don't know. And there's tons of stories of women who got released from kidnappers after telling them a sob story about my father's got cancer or something. Whereas other ones where they did the same thing and the guy was extra pissed off at them for trying to work their emotions. So it's crazy. Now there's a bunch of appeals for this, as you might imagine. Bunch of appeals. I'll get to a couple of them that are kind of points that are apt here. One of them contends, one of the points of appeal contends that the trial court erred in denying his motion for an order authorizing expenses for a pretrial public opinion poll.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, to find out if we should move this.

[James Petregallo]

If you watch a lot of trials, that is something the defense always does as a pre opinion poll to see how many people have heard about the case in this area. And if 97% of the people have heard about it, how are you gonna find a jury? So they won't give him that he wanted to poll the jury in order to figure out the extent of the publicity, which was vast.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, this guy killed a shitload of people. This is crazy. He said that the denial of his motion violated his rights under the Oregon statute and his constitutional rights to adequate assistance of counsel, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment and due process. That's right. So that's what he says. The court denied his request for the expenses for the opinion poll, concluding it was satisfied that the individual voidir of prospective jurors and the additional preemptory challenges will permit the selection of a jury unaffected by publicity. He just said, I'll give you guys extra challenges. How's that? And they went, all right, fine. That's good. He also failed to establish the probable value of him to the public opinion poll in light of the extensive wadir provided. So what more could you have found out from that that would make you not guilty, basically. Also, he contends that the court erred in denying his challenge for cause of all prospective jurors who knew of his earlier conviction for aggravated murder of Smith of Jennifer Smith. Specifically, he contended that knowledge of the conviction was so prejudicial that it demonstrated an actual bias from which a prospective juror could not be rehabilitated. Five of the jurors at the trial were aware of his conviction for the Smith murder. He asserted that he was not tried by an impartial jury, and that is his problem. Also juror misconduct, as he calls it. On the fourth day of the guilt phase of the trial, a juror was washing her hands in the bathroom and was approached by the mother of one of the victims.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

She told the juror that she either wanted to thank her, that she wanted to thank her, or that she appreciated what she was doing. The juror said, I can't remember what she said, but it was quick. She said, I want to thank you or I appreciate it or something like. She said, she never identified herself and she didn't know who the person or she didn't know. No, the jury was the mom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't know it was a mom. And she said that she didn't respond to it either. Just someone said thank you or whatever. And a lot of people will do that. Just say, oh, thanks for your service. On it. Thanks for doing that. You know, it doesn't have to be a victim. So the juror then left the restroom and reported this to the bailiff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, that's good.

[James Petregallo]

To talk to her. They have to. The following morning, they had a Big hearing in the chambers. And they questioned both the mother and the juror separately. And they both gave the exact same account of their encounter. And they said, yeah, that's not gonna. That's not gonna make her. Yeah, it's not gonna make this person prejudiced against the client. So the juror did say she assumed that this woman was the defendant's mother. She said, I thought it was Dayton's mother at first. That's what I thought. I didn't realize it was her mother. And that after the encounter, she only told the bailiff and no other jurors about it because she thought that that was like attempted juror fucking tampering, basically. So he had. He ends up moving for a mistrial, arguing that the juror would realize that the mother was not the defendant's mother and that she was being thanked in advance for convicting him instead and imposing a death sentence. Okay, which trial court said, get the fuck out of here? No, but they did give a cautionary instruction directing them to avoid all contact with any participants. He also appeals the sufficiency of the facts. We'll just skip over that because the facts are pretty. They're pretty strong.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, the physical evidence, the everything. Yeah, you were stabbing. No. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, we know what you do. We know the feet, and we know all that shit. It's you. If it's anything weird with feet, it's you, dude.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. And 30 bras, clasps were burned. That's a lot.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. Wow. They say with. He tried to say that the aggravated felony murder sexual abuse count concerning the death of Cervantes tried to say that it wasn't reasonable for the jury to infer that he cut off her nipple in order to gratify a sexual desire. Well, what else would you rather? And that she didn't consent to doing so.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. All right.

[James Petregallo]

So she might have said, please cut off my nipple. And then he said, sure, fine. And wasn't even, like, sexually turned on by that. That's what he's trying to tell a fucking appeals court. Now, the conviction is affirmed, but the Oregon Supreme Court in 92 vacates the death penalty and remands him for a new penalty phase of the trial. Recently, the ruling was influenced by a U.S. supreme Court decision emphasizing defendants right to present mitigation that could sway juries toward life sentences and away from death. 1994 is the resentencing the penalty phase hearing. He is resentenced to you, sir. Keep Fucking off. Death again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

More. Another one. 2000. The Supreme Court again vacates the death sentence and remands for another penalty phase trial. The court held the trial judge erred by not allowing the jury to consider life without parole as a sentencing option, which had become available under Oregon law after the initial trial. So we're talking the Last one. Okay. 2006, back for remand. The third jury sentences him to death again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Die.

[James Petregallo]

2012, they just run him over with a truck in the parking lot as they're taking him to court. No. On automatic review. Oregon Supreme Court vacates the death sentence and remands another new penalty phase. The court focused on five key claims, rejecting three related to constitutional amendments and the third question on provocation and evidence admission for that question. Anyway, they say that the court erred in empane an anonymous jury without sufficient grounds for jury protection. And they improperly allowed state expert testimony about Rogers consensual teenage homosexual experience.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

He did some experimenting when he was a teenager there. So the Supreme Court vacates the sentence again, saying the jury thing was improper. 2013, the seventh body is finally identified.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

As Tanya Jerry Johnston, an 18 year old. 18, DNA technology finally identified this poor young lady. That's crazy. 2015, his defense offers to waive future appeals for a life sentence. He said, just give us life without, we'll waive everything and this will be over. And the state said, nah, we want to kill you more death. We're doing the death penalty again. So during the sentencing, he speaks and he cries and he's soft. He reads a nine minute statement.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nine minutes.

[James Petregallo]

Nine minutes after he's been called Oregon's most prolific serial killer, he cries. Nine minutes. Apologized, calling sorry inadequate. He said, the enormity of my crimes makes the word sorry inadequate. But I am sorry. So very sorry. So, so, so very sorry. Yeah, well, he says that the enormity of my crimes is so disturbing that it paralyzes me. It may be impossible for you to believe, but I do have a conscience. I am humble. I humbly tell each of you that I am very sorry for what I did to your precious loved ones. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, because of that part where you just said plural loved ones. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Then 2021, the Oregon Supreme Court unanimously overturns that death sentence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

This is why I said it's just, it's stupid. Like the CO Burger thing. Did those families want to do this for 30 years? Because this is the future of that. This is 35 fucking years later. These families are still going to court every time. That's horrifying for these poor people, these poor families. It's. It's just awful. So it's overturned again here due to a new law limiting aggravating factors. Jesus Christ. The family reactions here. Wayne and Sherry Devore said they raised their granddaughter after Cynthia was murdered. Her daughter. And they've attended every hearing for 30 years.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My God.

[James Petregallo]

They said, we never get to have a say. 48 jurors said death was just. But the rules keep changing. Wow. Now her daughter, who was eight months old when she died, who's now grown and has children of her own, says, I'm devastated by the court rulings. What does this mean, moving forward? And, man, that's fucking crazy. So one of the detectives leading the forest search said, we realized we had a serial killer. When I found the third body, first thing through my mind, oh, gee, three bodies in one place. Wow. That's why you're the detective, mister.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What about the second one, man?

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Yeah, that's just an accident. What the fuck? The prosecutor said, based on the cruelty he's shown, he's right up there with the most evil serial killers. The survivors, a lot of them started new lives, became citizens. Some died, some went one way, some went the other way. One called after the verdict and said, I was working at a job, fixing dinner. Saw him on the news, had a fit, was shaking, thinking, it could be me, it could be me, it could be me. December 2022, the governor just commutes all death sentences to life without parole in Oregon and says, fuck this. And the reason why for a lot of it was, do you know what? This has cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. This is just for his defense. They had to pay for. Now, this is not all the prosecution, all the, all the psychologists, all the. That is 10 times this amount. Just his defense cost $2.5 million to the state of fucking Oregon. You know, things that. That would go better toward, probably. I can think of a few. So in prison, he's at the Two Rivers Correctional Institution in Umatilla, Oregon, where he works as an inmate barber.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

That guy ain't cutting my fucking hair right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They gave that guy scissors.

[James Petregallo]

Yup. That's crazy. When he's not cutting hair, he's only allowed out of his cell every 20 minutes, out of every 24 hours for a shower. He still maintains he acted in self defense with Smith and claims the forest victims, quote, provoked him somehow. They all deserve it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

And he's never revealed how many more bodies there are, either.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dozens.

[James Petregallo]

Man, that's crazy. Charles Gates, the guy who found him murdering Jennifer Smith, said he was more evil than any of us could possibly imagine. Once all the cards were on the table, we could see something that was just monstrous. And another woman, Sherry Leder, who was the woman who held Jennifer as she died and the paramedics worked on her. She said no one cared. But I did. When I go, everyone will have forgotten about Jenny. And the detective, John Turner, one of the main detectives, said, how many other bodies are still lying in Oregon's forests awaiting discovery? Unless Dayton decides to talk, that question may never be answered. And he's in his 70s now. He's not talking, never gonna. He's not saying shit. Some very good information, especially on background stuff, came from a book called Bloodlust. Portrait of a Serial Sex Killer by Gary C. King. It says. Eight pages of shocking photos. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good Christ.

[James Petregallo]

So there you go, everybody. That is Oregon. Oak Grove, Oregon. That's where the Denny's was, by the way, in Oak Grove. That's why that's so. Holy shit. This is insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

You took all that in and say, enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed it. But obviously not too much because that would be creepy. And I'd be looking for feet under your fucking. Yeah, I'd be looking for feet under your floorboards at that point. So thank you so much for listening. If you like the show, give us five stars and whatever app you're on. Also, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com get yourself merchandise and get yourself tickets to live shows. Virtual live show, the Thursday before Halloween. Get there, get those tickets, just like a regular live show. We'll be in costumes. That's the only difference. And it's all the pictures, all the regular stuff of a live show, except you're in your living room or wherever you feel like being anywhere in the world. With WI Fi, you can watch this and you'll have access to it for two weeks after we do it. So get in there, you can watch it a hundred times, do whatever you want with it. Hang out with us. Also get your tickets for Seattle, mid October. It's the Saturday night, whatever that date is in there, 17, maybe the 17th, the Saturday of that weekend. We're Portland the night before. And then we are Seattle. So get your Seattle tickets. Portland sold out already. So thank you so much for doing that. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Follow us on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram, Smalltown pot on Facebook, patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. All you got to do is be $5 a month or above and you get a shitload. Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all. This week we're going to talk about Kermit Washington, this incident in basketball for crime and sports, where it was a fight on the court, Unbelievable. Punched Rudy Tomjanovich and it changed both their lives forever and almost killed Rudy. It's a crazy story, really wild story. We'll talk about. And then for small town murder, we're going to talk about the history of executions in the US Because a lot of people wanted that over Ted Bundy even. So that's what we're going to talk about. It's going to be very, very interesting. And on top of all of that, you also get all of our shows, Crime and sports, you, stupid opinion, Small town murder, all ad free at your Patreon as well. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Damn it. We just give too much. That's what it is. We just want to give. Jimmy, let's do this right now. Hit me with the names of the people who you would never leave in a forest with missing feet. Jimmy, hit me with them right fucking now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This week's executive producer, Gary Howard, Jennifer Frisch. How are you, Jen? Exact Solutions. She doesn't give her name, but the lady came to our show in Irvine and evidently the. The whole office is thrilled to hear about it.

[James Petregallo]

Well, lovely. We appreciate that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Balieko Rogers. Thank you all so much for everything you guys do.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're amazing. Thank you. Yes. Can't say it enough. Other producers are. Peyton Meadows, Happy Hour in Nagadoches, Texas.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Poor bastard. Get out of there.

[James Petregallo]

Happy hour every time. It's the worst places.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The sky overnights in the worst places you ever heard. Janiceville, Sydney with no last name.

[James Petregallo]

Jerry Jackson, crotch rot, L.A. this week. Holy fuck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Welcome to Dickhole, Mississippi.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sarah Gatchik, Heidi Griffin checking in. In yeast infection. Florida.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, one of my favorite spots. I love a tract infection. Florida. That's wonderful.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jalen Skogland, Matt Van Geesen, Liz. Lys. Lys. It's Alyssa, but I don't. What do you say, Lys? I think it's Liss. Thank you. She didn't give her last name. Alexander Wizen and Joseph Lindley. Andrea Davis. Krista Malloy. Megan Argo, Sam with no last name. Bent rcs. Jennalyn Willis. Bob Hodgman. Burns. Jill Brown. Rachel Sullivan. Venice Keller. Brett Hegel. Helga Helgeson. Dakota Schultz. Cassie Jones. Amy with no last name. Will Puckett. Sandra Marks. Cece the Dundalkian. I don't know. That is Caitlin Winkler. Richard. Richard Hamilton. Is that a person?

[James Petregallo]

That's a basketball player.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There it is.

[James Petregallo]

That's a player for years. Yukon, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think so. Tom Trimble. Is that Rip Hamilton? That's Rip. Hannah Hamilton.

[James Petregallo]

Richard. Rip Hamilton.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tom Trimble. Oh, smart. Shelley Brown. Melis. Melis Mellace Malates. Bill with no last name. Elizabeth Bunk. Celia Kinney Riley with no last name. Tarek Newcomb Evans. Amy Fortner. John Gates. Michael. Michael Lynn Finley. Perhaps that's Mike Finley's daughter. Brian Bates. Katie Dion. Maria Rose. Joanne Fogarty. Not. Wait, it is the same spelling as John. M.K. trafford. Michelle Kelly, Sarah with a. With an h. Jana Van Nelson. Avery with no last name. Thomas Fallon, Elizabeth Sperber. Ray with no last name. Amin Burns, Ali. Dr. Bill Sale, David. Bullied. Is that. That might be autocorrected. I don't know if he was or not. Bullied.

[James Petregallo]

Akiko Namato.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Carolyn Beck Anderson. Nikki Pom Berry. Donna with no last name. Tracy Taylor. Sarah Trippy. Sasha Bovey. Nina with no last name. Bloody Echo. Rob with no last name. Rachel Parker. Molly Manning. Kelly Ann. Olivia Roberts. Elena Bidlak. Zipporah Abraca. Tom with no last name. Marcel Wiggins. Jeffrey Self. Shauna Rogers. Julio Danzing. Wooden spoon upside the head. Helen Bennett. Bill Dubs. I don't know that I like that in a child abuse episode. Ah, shit. Bill Dubs. Caitlin Yost. Misha Palmer, Misha Crane. I'll bet those are people that are the same person. There's no way a Misha Palmer and a Misha Crane donate back to back. They're different people. Never.

[James Petregallo]

Everybody named Misha loves us. Don't you know that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Evidently. And they got to give us money. Carlos Tabarez. Katie with no last name. Sean Hale. Donna D. Michelle Hamilton. Joey Benefiel. Benefiel. Christy Ackley. Kerry Fox. Carly Kane. Jenny Lean. Melanie with no last name. Erin Flynn. Lisa. Lisa Harger. Linda McCarthy. Sarah Palumbo. Angela Cardo. Aisha Sise. TR Colleen Kaline. Perhaps Steven with no last name. Stefan Maybe. Becky Williams. Beverly Ellis. Shaylee with no last name. Zachary Haas. Brandon Williamson. Butters the Cat. Oh, I love a good cat with a great name. Jan Fisher. Yon Fisher, maybe. Tamar Pileggi. Pilgi, Ginger with no last name, Emily B. Carol Colson, Holly Manning, and all of our patrons, especially the ones in Skin Infection, Indiana.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you everybody so much.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

You're fantastic, wonderful, magnificent bastards. We just appreciate the hell out of it. If you want to find us on social media, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com drop down menus take you anywhere you want to go. Keep coming back and seeing us week after week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.