Lady Leatherface - Aberdeen, New South Wales, Australia

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast Summary

Episode: Lady Leatherface - Aberdeen, New South Wales, Australia
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Release Date: August 8, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the dark and twisted case of Catherine Mary Knight, infamously known as Lady Leatherface, who committed a gruesome murder in the small Australian town of Aberdeen, New South Wales. Balancing in-depth research with their signature comedic flair, the hosts guide listeners through the harrowing events that shook the tight-knit community.

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Background of Aberdeen, New South Wales

Aberdeen, located in the Upper Hunter Shire of eastern Australia, is a modest town with a population of just over 2,000. Historically a hub for mining and meat processing, Aberdeen was home to the Aberdeen Meatworks, one of the town's largest employers until its closure in 1999. The town is also known for its Scottish heritage, celebrated annually through the Aberdeen Highland Games.

Notable Quote:
James (00:26): "It's a lot we got for you today. It's a crazy episode."

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Catherine Mary Knight: Early Life and Personal Struggles

Catherine's tumultuous life began with a troubled family dynamic. Born to Barbara and Jack Ruffin, Catherine endured severe abuse from her stepfather, Ken Knight, who was both alcoholic and violent. This abusive environment profoundly affected Catherine, leading to behavioral issues during her school years, including bullying and violent outbursts.

Notable Quote:
Jimmy (18:36): "Which is just what a six-year-old wants to hear."

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Descent into Violence

Catherine's violent tendencies escalated over the years. After multiple abusive relationships and a series of personal conflicts, her aggression culminated in the brutal murder of her husband, John Charles Thomas Price, in February 2000. Catherine meticulously planned and executed the murder, demonstrating a chilling level of precision and lack of remorse.

Notable Quote:
James (13:00): "Is somebody skinning people around here?"

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The Murder Scene

On the night of February 29, 2000, Catherine entered Pricey's home under the guise of reconciliation. After a brief encounter, she attacked him with a kitchen knife, stabbing him multiple times. In a horrifying display of violence, she removed his skin in one complete piece, resembling the process of skinning an orange. She then proceeded to cook parts of his body, intending to serve them as meals to her children.

Notable Quote:
James (48:38): "She skinned a man like a fucking orange. One piece."

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Investigation and Arrest

The following morning, Pricey failed to show up for work, prompting his colleagues to alert the authorities. Upon inspecting his home, police discovered the gruesome aftermath of Catherine's actions, including blood spatter, the macabre display of his skin, and cooked remains of his body. Catherine was found unconscious in the house due to an overdose of prescription medications, likely taken to avoid detection.

Notable Quote:
James (55:39): "So she hung his skin on a meat hook."

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Trial and Sentencing

During the trial, Catherine maintained a facade of distress, citing her history of abuse as justification for her actions. However, psychiatric evaluations concluded that while she exhibited a personality disorder, she was mentally competent and fully aware of her crimes. The Supreme Court judge condemned her actions as "an appalling crime, almost beyond contemplation in a civilized society," sentencing her to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole—the first woman in Australian history to receive such a sentence.

Notable Quote:
Judge (64:30): "To sentence any person to life imprisonment is a big thing. To sentence a woman to life imprisonment for me was an even bigger thing."

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Aftermath and Legacy

Catherine Mary Knight's case left an indelible mark on Aberdeen, attracting numerous tourists fascinated by the horrific events. The house where the murder took place remains a point of interest, occasionally listed for sale and serving as a grim reminder of the tragedy. Catherine continues to serve her life sentence, reportedly maintaining a stoic demeanor and presenting herself as having found faith, though skepticism remains among those familiar with her history.

Notable Quote:
James (65:14): "That's the name of this fucking episode right there. Lady Leatherface. That is good."

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Conclusion

Lady Leatherface offers a chilling exploration of Catherine Mary Knight's life, her descent into violence, and the profound impact her actions had on the small town of Aberdeen. Through detailed narration and insightful commentary, James and Jimmy provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of one of Australia's most disturbing murder cases.

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Notable Highlights:

• Psychological Profile: Analysis of Catherine's personality disorder and lack of remorse.
• Community Impact: The effect of the murder on Aberdeen's residents and its transformation into a site of morbid curiosity.
• Legal Proceedings: The groundbreaking sentencing and its significance in Australian legal history.

Quotes with Timestamps:

• James (00:26): "It's a lot we got for you today. It's a crazy episode."
• Jimmy (18:36): "Which is just what a six-year-old wants to hear."
• James (13:00): "Is somebody skinning people around here?"
• James (48:38): "She skinned a man like a fucking orange. One piece."
• James (55:39): "So she hung his skin on a meat hook."
• Judge (64:30): "To sentence any person to life imprisonment is a big thing. To sentence a woman to life imprisonment for me was an even bigger thing."
• James (65:14): "That's the name of this fucking episode right there. Lady Leatherface. That is good."

---

This episode is a poignant reminder of how personal trauma and societal pressures can intertwine, leading to unimaginable acts of violence. Small Town Murder continues to shed light on such cases, offering listeners both detailed narratives and thoughtful analysis.

Transcript

[James Petragalo]

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Choo choo.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragalo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petragalo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder Express. We usually say 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag. This is about 20 pounds of murder here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragalo]

This is a lot we got for you today. It's a crazy episode. So buckle up everybody, we're gonna start right now. First of all, shut upandgivemerder.com is where you get all of your tickets for live shows. Get your tickets for the fall. We have Philly D.C. seattle is available right now for sale. So get in there and get those tickets before they're gone because a couple of them, they're over 97% sold out. So you definitely want to get in there and do that. So thank you for everyone that has shut upandgivemerder.com also listen to our other two shows. Crime in Sports just finished up a seven part serial killer episode. Very little sports. You definitely check that out on Randall Woodfield, the i5 killer. And you'd stupid opinions of course, where we just find the dumbest opinions from all over the Internet in review form and make fun of them. So that's a good time. And you, and you Definitely want Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you are going to get so much. First of all, a huge back catalog of stuff you've never heard before. All bonus episodes, hundreds of them, available immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder. And you get them all, every drop of it. This week, which you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about more amusement park disasters. Oh, it's time again. It's been about eight months since we've done those. So it's time again. And then for Small Town Murder. It's back, everybody. The Prisoner Dating Game. All Violent Felon Edition. Gonna line Jimmy up. Four bachelors, four bachelorettes. He's gonna have no idea what they did until after he picks one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Figure it out later.

[James Petragalo]

It's a fun one. We call it avoid the Pedophile. The Pedophile Shell game.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But that's not all.

[James Petragalo]

That's not all. And now you also get everything. Crime and sports, your stupid opinions and Both small town murder episodes every week ad free on Patreon. It's everything for you and you get a shout out sign up right now patreon.com crimeinsports do yourself a favor. You deserve it. Yes, you deserve it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Take care of you.

[James Petragalo]

I'm telling you. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here, let's all clear the lungs. Let's all shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Ok. We are going far, far away this week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How far?

[James Petragalo]

Australia, the other side of the planet. That's exactly where we're going. We're going to tomorrow. We're not even in the same day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe yesterday.

[James Petragalo]

So we are going to Aberdeen, New South Wales, Australia. Aberdeen, Aberdeen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not the one in Oregon?

[James Petragalo]

No, no. New South Wales, Australia. It is in eastern Australia and in eastern New South Wales as well because that's where the New South Wales is. It's like southeastern Australia against the coast. The region. This is the Upper Huntershire region.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

The Hunter region. Area. No, Hunter shire. Two different words. Oh, they took that bullshit and they're like, listen, England, we're not doing it. We'll take your shires but we're not going to make it Sures. And make them one word and do all that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We got time down here.

[James Petragalo]

We're fine. We got all the time in the world here. It's about three and a half hours to Sydney. About 10 hours to our last Australian episode, which was Goomborian, I believe. Queensland, Australia, which was episode 512 more than 100 episodes ago. This is 620. That was five. So it's been over a year since we've been in Australia. Australia. Men at Work was the name of that one. Aptly, the postal code. The postal code here is 2336. Population 2051. It was a small little town, a lot of mining and farming and that sort of thing. Median household income here, 74,152 EMU backs or whatever they are. Koala bucks. I don't know, something walla dollars. Roof skins they call them down there. You owe me five roof skins, they say, and you got to give it up. Median home cost around here about 550,000 Ruskins.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So seems like a lot. Seems like a lot. Don't know what that translates to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think they do a dollar. But it's like a different.

[James Petragalo]

It's an Australian dollar. Yeah, but that's different currency has different values all the time. No, no, no way. Different dollar. Instead of a President. It just has a kangaroo head on there. That's the. Like a noble looking roo head. It's totally different. And he's holding a can of Fosters for some reason in a powdered wig. Don't understand why. History. It's one of the first settlements in the Upper Hunter Valley. It was named after the Earl of Aberdeen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

Who was a friend of an early settler named Potter McQueen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He was a pal.

[James Petragalo]

Must have been. He was overseeing whoever they sent there. Prior to this. Prior to these people. People coming here, it was occupied by the Wannerua people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

Yes, absolutely. Named after Aberdeen, Scotland. Also with that guy. So historically a meat processing hub.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gross.

[James Petragalo]

Mining and meat processing goes on here. This is like. This is their industrial hub type of deal. But it's a small town. It's weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The meat processing plant is not a slaughterhouse. It's just where they take the slaughterhouse.

[James Petragalo]

No, no, no, no. It's everything. It's an abattoir, which we'll talk about. Abattoir, sorry, an AB abattoir, which is. I'll explain that when we get into the episode here. But Aberdeen Meatworks was one of the largest employers, but it closed in 1999. Known for beef cattle, dairy farming, horse breeding, and there's, like I said, mining around here as well. Famous people from here. Roger Knox is from here. Well, you don't know him, but you know his picture. Look at that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy.

[James Petragalo]

He is known as.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is going on?

[James Petragalo]

Black Elvis.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, sir.

[James Petragalo]

Although he looks more. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that like a puffy loud tracksuit? What is that?

[James Petragalo]

No, no, it looks like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it velour?

[James Petragalo]

It looks like more of a Conway Twitty jacket. You know what I mean? With like fringy stuff on there. Less Elvis, more Conway Twitty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, there's some fringe on that.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, there's some fringe hanging off. He's got it on his collar. Got it on his sleeve dangling down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I thought those were stripes.

[James Petragalo]

And he's playing a bass, which I didn't. I never saw Elvis play a bass before, but that's fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know if he really played a guitar.

[James Petragalo]

Who the hell know? Yeah, we have one review of this town and I'll give it to you. This is Antimus with a review, 4 stars. Small Town with a lot of history is the title of it. Aberdeen is a small town in the Upper Hunter Valley and the gateway to the richest horse country in the world. Richest in the world?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What does that mean?

[James Petragalo]

Never mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kentucky Most horses or most Money?

[James Petragalo]

I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's not defining it.

[James Petragalo]

I feel like there's spots in Florida and I'm sure in like the Middle east some Dubai lunatic has a crazy horse. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or do they mean like buttery meat?

[James Petragalo]

It's really rich horse meat surrounded by horse studs. Oh, that's how every lady wants to be, surrounded by horse studs. There is much to do and see, including visiting the vineyards of the Upper Hunter, the cheese factory and olive grove to purchase some award winning local produce. Leisurely drives will take you to other historic towns and to the Barrington Tops, A great and safe place to raise children with access to great primary and secondary schools. Oh, it's wonderful there things to do here. The Aberdeen Highland Games, right? It's named after Scotland.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's gonna be some footy and rugby.

[James Petragalo]

No more shit than that. This is. I guess they're saying this town is very Scottish. Scottish heritage wise. It's named Aberdeen. I don't know, but they're really into that, so. The annual Highland Games takes place on the first weekend in July. The games are a gathering of pipe bands, clans, not that kind. Dancers, heavy event participants. I don't know what that is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Heavy ones.

[James Petragalo]

Heavy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of fat people.

[James Petragalo]

Big, fat, bad. The fattest Australia has to offer, as well as state and interstate tug of war teams to help celebrate the Scottish Celtic history.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You want the fattest bastard?

[James Petragalo]

You got, you got. Well, yeah, you got your fatties in there. That helps lean back, tie it on your ankle, clean. Also here they have the games or gathering of all that and the strongman challenge. That's separate from the state and interstate tug of war teams. I don't know why. You can also go to the old butter factory and mill. You want to go to a butter factory and mill?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I kind of want to see it.

[James Petragalo]

Just over the railway line here. The ruins of the old mill built in 1837. So it's not a butter factory. A mill that's working.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It used to work.

[James Petragalo]

You can see a building that's half.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fallen apart now and go, ooh, they.

[James Petragalo]

Used to make butter. And then you go drive to the next thing. That's amazing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

At least they show up here every day.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, man. And this was the spot once upon a time when the Aberdeen Meatworks closed as well. They had their big reunions there, I guess. And they have a big 30th anniversary or. No, it's a different. Whatever, 25th anniversary last year. The Aberdeen Meatworks reunion.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petragalo]

All you have to do is Text or phone Butch and he'll hook you up. I swear to God. That's what it says in the poster. Text the guy Chinese meals available on the day. Just text Butch.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He doesn't give his number.

[James Petragalo]

Come to the meat packing. Come to the meat cutters reunion and get Chinese food. Butch will take care of everything. Sounds good. Let's talk about some murder because we got a lot to get into and I don't want to run out of time here. Okay, here we go. Let's start out hot. What do you say? March 1, 2000?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petragalo]

Jump right in here. All right. There's a guy named John Price, and he has not shown up for work that day and has got some worried colleagues here. So the other thing, too, he had told his colleagues the day before that if I don't show up tomorrow, it means I've been murdered.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what I hope. Everybody assumes any time I don't get to show up tomorrow.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, he's probably dead. I assume he's been murdered. Which when someone tells you that, you probably think they're drama, though. Oh, yeah, you've been murdered. I'm sure it's real drama.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, because we make this show anytime anything at all happens. That's what I assume. Last night, two shotgun blasts. I'm pretty sure there's a body over there.

[James Petragalo]

There probably is one now. It's rotting yards from my home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I did take a walk that way.

[James Petragalo]

But I mean, it probably happened inside, I would imagine. We hope so. They call the cops, the people at work, and say our guy didn't show up. And he said if he didn't show up, it means he's murdered. So can you go check him out? Basically. So there's a cop. He goes, knocks on the door and the cop said, didn't get an answer. Saw some blood on the door jam. Looked through a little gap into the lounge, which was dark, reasonably dark, and saw what looked like a bunched up curtain hanging down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So everything's fine.

[James Petragalo]

So, I mean, okay, dark, curtains. I don't know. I mean, I don't see anything. Yeah, you know, there's no headless people or anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Blood for me to be alarmed.

[James Petragalo]

Well, you didn't say anything about it. He saw some blood on the door jam. Some. I mean, who doesn't have a little blood on their door jamb is what I'm getting at, Jimmy. I mean, my blood. You go into my house right now, everything's fine. There's blood all over the place in the door jamb. It just Keeps people away.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's where we keep it.

[James Petragalo]

It keeps people away. Someone's gonna break in. They're gonna go, oh, God, someone already got here. It's like already getting a ticket. You don't get another ticket for the same thing. They're like, he's already been murdered. Nevermind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You turn your turn signal on when.

[James Petragalo]

You get out from being a ticket, that's it. So they can't. They knock on the door, nobody answers. So they decide to break into the house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragalo]

To make sure. Now this guy's been missing for two hours. He's a grown man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Break all his windows.

[James Petragalo]

Let's fucking bust through this door. Who's got the battering ram?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's probably got insurance.

[James Petragalo]

So they go around back. This cop, he goes around back and breaks in through the back. He says. As we went in, I saw straight ahead of me what I thought was a curtain. There was something hanging, blocking my entry into the hallway of the house. I thought it looked like some type of blanket or some sort of covering that had been placed on the archway. So I remember I used my left hand to push it aside and could immediately feel coldness coming on my left arm. He looked down and saw that his arm is covered in blood.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragalo]

So he thought that he hurt himself breaking the door. She's like, oh, shit, I'm bleeding. Oh, I'm bleeding, I'm bleeding. But he didn't understand it. He said, quote, I realized then it was a human pelt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, the skin.

[James Petragalo]

That's what was hanging. Not a curtain, just skin. Quote it was the skin.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just a person's pelt.

[James Petragalo]

Just a. Yes, just an Edgar suit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he pushed it aside. Get this out of here.

[James Petragalo]

I'll move this curtain of blood. My arm, it had a full skin just hanging from the top of door frame.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

Looked past it and saw a torso on the ground without a head and without skin. He said, I think my first reaction was to turn around to Scotty and say, don't look, Scotty. Of course, that's the worst thing you could say because the other guy's. Look at what? Oh, God. So they were like, holy shit. This is a headless person and a skin pelt. This is horrifying. The cop said, it was at that point I realized what had happened. For something that I'd never seen before, I'd never experienced, I had an immediate idea of what's going on. Well, yeah, if you see a skinless, headless man, and here's some skin hanging.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Doesn'T he Wait a minute.

[James Petragalo]

He goes, I didn't make detective quite yet, but I think I put these two things together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is somebody skinning people around here?

[James Petragalo]

Someone promote this man to detective. He gets it. He said, quote, there's a pot on the stove.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ah, Jesus.

[James Petragalo]

I think I may have said to Scotty, I'll give you one guess where the head is. What do you think?

[Jimmy Whisman]

In the fridge.

[James Petragalo]

He said there was a pot on the stove. Yeah. God damn it, that's hilarious. So anyway, it's horrifying, obviously. Yeah, it's silly. One cop said, on the table there was a couple of plates that had meals prepared, vegetables and meat cooked sitting there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, don't touch it.

[James Petragalo]

Just a prepared meal on the table, all served and plated and everything. Now, okay, let's go back in time and figure out how we got to this scene a long time. Okay, let's go back to a woman named Barbara Ruffin. Ruffin. R O U G H A N Ruffin Ruggun. Whatever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ruhan.

[James Petragalo]

Whatever. Barbara, she married a guy named Jack. He was Rogan Rufin. Whatever the Ruffin. Whatever. They had four sons together, Barbara and Jack. Barbara, though, liked a co worker of her husband named Ken Knight. And so they had an affair. Apparently this is in the 50s, so this is a big deal, an affair in this. It was a very small town in the 50s, under a thousand people here. You know, it's a very small cheese making, fucking butter churn, butter churning kind of joint, you know what I mean? So this was a big scandal of the town that she was having an affair. And then she got pregnant with twins.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's gonna have six kids.

[James Petragalo]

Six goddamn kids. Wow. And so that was not an intended result, obviously. So the local people were so shitty about this whole thing that Barbara and Ken, the guy she was having an affair with, Ken Knight, they took off from Aberdeen. They had to leave town. And so Barbara leaves her four sons behind. Two. Two of them stayed with their father, still husband, and the two youngest boys were shipped to Sydney to live with an aunt he could only afford. Two, how that went. Yeah, the younger ones are a pain in the ass.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, they are.

[James Petragalo]

He's like, I gotta work and stuff. Can't be taking them to daycare too much. So Barbara gave birth to twin girls. And these are Catherine Mary Knight and Joy Knight is who she gives birth to October 24, 1955. So when the kids were just four years old, Papa Jack died.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragalo]

The guy she was having an affair with. So then his two older sons moved. So that's the guy who had her ex husband.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Original husband.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. So then the older sons that were living with him came and moved in with Barbara and Ken.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now we got two kids from him and the twins.

[James Petragalo]

And the twins. And living with Barbie and Ken. Yeah. So Catherine, now there's six kids in the house total at this point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She got all of them.

[James Petragalo]

And there's two adults. Two. Those two. It's a mess. Okay. Now, Ken, not a great guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragalo]

Severe, alcoholic, kind of a real violent guy. He would rape Barbara frequently. Sometimes up to ten times a day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How do you.

[James Petragalo]

I don't even understand how that's physically possible. I guess you have to be a rapist.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta get off on that.

[James Petragalo]

The only way you could do that is if you're a rapist. Yeah, that's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a trick to why it works.

[James Petragalo]

Just based on cool, collected sexuality. Nobody's that horny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragalo]

You know, especially as a guy, you know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Physically you're like, I'm good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. And the clock too, is plenty. The clock gets longer as the. As they happen.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You might be able to go again in 10 minutes, but it's going to be 30 after the second one and.

[James Petragalo]

Then it's going to take a while longer to finish. Exponentially.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

It's going to be quite a long. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petragalo]

If you've already had four sexual acts that day, the fifth one's gonna take a while to finish and there's gonna be nothing there. No, like we said, there's gonna be very little proof A ghost is gonna fly out. That's all you're gonna hear.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ooh. She's gonna accuse you of faking it.

[James Petragalo]

No shit. So now Barbara, she would tell her kids about this, about the rapes, about the abuse, the rapes, everything. Particularly Catherine. Catherine, one of her twins, is her sounding board. Like, let me tell you about how your dad rapes me all the time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get a book.

[James Petragalo]

Which is just what a six year old wants to hear. You know, they don't get a diary or a Sesame street or anything. No, no, no. You tell your child that's what you do. Now, Barbara was described by everybody as, quote, a hard woman with little empathy for her children. And she was also physically abusive toward her daughters. And this is a nightmare to grow up in this household. The family moves back to Aberdeen in 1959. I guess the furor has died down of this big affair. So now there is one person who is very nice to Catherine and the kids. One particular uncle who's real nice. Doesn't beat him, molest them, do anything like that. That's Uncle Oscar, who is, I believe, Ken's brother. Ken Knight's brother. He was a champion horseman and he was very nice to her and kind to her and everything like that. Also, Catherine was abused on and off by different family members and things like that. So she had a terrible, awful childhood. All these kids, it's a mess, pure chaos.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is crazy how prevalent that shit really is.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, it's insane. It's so much insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why is that a thing?

[James Petragalo]

People are very worried about strangers, as they should be. But most of these molestations come from family members. People that have access to the kids a lot is what it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Trusted access.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. She tried to tell adults and nobody listened to her. This is also back in the days where people went, oh, she's just making up stories like, I don't know what it was back then people didn't want to believe this type of stuff and.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They didn't want to shame the family. Not in our family.

[James Petragalo]

Now they want to believe it's all that happens. And back then they were like, it didn't happen at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's all that happens. And it's that guy right there, just the closest guy to you. Just point at them and go, that's a dirt.

[James Petragalo]

That's the one. So in high school, Catherine's teachers and classmates started to see her problems here. She's a loner and a bully. Catherine who. Which makes sense. She's abused. That's what happens. They said she would pick on the smaller kids too. She assaulted at least one boy with a weapon and once was injured by a teacher who had to act in self defense because Katherine attacked him with a weapon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

So he had to knock her little ass out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Here to go. Imagine being allowed, fully allowed to, because you know it's the only time in your life you're ever gonna be able to punch a 10 year old girl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ever since he picked up a weapon and charged towards him, he smiled, he.

[James Petragalo]

Was like, this is a fight I can win. He's like, finally, this is a fight I can win. I've wanted to punch one of these kids for. So imagine being a teacher.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petragalo]

Even no matter how good of a person you've had at some point a fantasy of just throttling one of these kids has come into your fucking head and you finally get to do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The biggest smile ever.

[James Petragalo]

Unfortunately, it's a small abused girl, but she's attacking you with a Weapon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The last thing Catherine saw that day was a smiling adult.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, done. So her teen years here, she apparently one time had a boyfriend, Catherine. And the guy was trying to get her to have sex and do all sorts of stuff and she didn't want to do it. So she told her mom and was like, what do I do? She went to her mom for advice.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, mom that's been raped.

[James Petragalo]

What do you do when. Well, so is Catherine, but she's like, what do you do when a guy is coming on to you and you don't really want it? Mom said, put up with it and stop complaining.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so you're happy someone liked you. Ungrateful bitch.

[James Petragalo]

Just be happy someone wants to hump you. What are you talking. That's not what you tell you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragalo]

Hey, Bad advice. At one point, her and her twin sister got in a fight over a bicycle at school. That escalated into a full on fist fight with the sisters trying to kill each other. Wow. Just complete mayhem. I mean, this is their household and it spills out into public.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Only time we've seen that's in a Miller Light commercial. Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

And they're just, they're like pulling each other's hair and like a boob pops up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great taste.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, this is. There's no fun involved, I don't think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is just terrible.

[James Petragalo]

Not a tit popping out among anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We don't want to see it anyway.

[James Petragalo]

No, it's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's over a Schwinn.

[James Petragalo]

Children fighting over a bicycle. So 1969, Uncle Oscar kills himself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no. And he was the good guy.

[James Petragalo]

He was the good guy that she liked. Catherine later would say that his ghost would continue to visit her all the time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's fucked up.

[James Petragalo]

She's got some interesting things. 1970, she drops out of school. She's functionally illiterate. Didn't really do much in school. She can basically read and write on the most remedial of levels. I mean, just a real. She gets a dry cleaning ticket. She gets that. But outside of that, that's the extent of her reading that she's gonna do. Pick up Tuesday. Okay, excellent. I can do that. She gets her dream job eventually. After a few years, she gets out of her teen years and her dream job is at an abattoir.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that?

[James Petragalo]

That. And this is the definition in livestock, agriculture and the meat industry. A slaughterhouse, also called an abattoir, is a facility where livestock animals are slaughtered to provide food. Slaughterhouses provide the meat and blah, blah, blah. Then there's a packing Facility also.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I felt like it was a familiar word. It's because you just said.

[James Petragalo]

I said it about 12 minutes ago, I think is what that is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petragalo]

She's really good at cutting. Yeah, that's what she does.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She can cut things apart.

[James Petragalo]

Oh yeah. She gets promoted to a boner, which is my. That's the job you want right there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want to laugh at it.

[James Petragalo]

She's a boner.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Which is actually a very skilled position. They call it a boner. They say boning is the job. So I assume you're a boner if you're boning. Right. You have to have a boner to be boning, I think. Correct.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's pretty incredible.

[James Petragalo]

Hopefully not 10 a day. So it's a very skilled position though. So to have that you really have to be good with the knives and really be able to separate the flesh from the bone with really good accuracy because any wasted meat is costing the cup money up. Yeah. So yeah, she loved it, by the way. It was her favorite thing. Everybody else just did their job and she was like. Like she was making a fucking. An art project or something. Smiling like a teacher punching a 10 year old. Just big shit eating grin.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, this is what joy feels like.

[James Petragalo]

They said she loved the blood and the gore and she would brag about her knife skills and yeah, she even hung a set of butcher knives above her bed as her defense mechanism. People keep a gun next to their bed. She keeps all of her butcher knives.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

And if you fuck with her, she'll get up and start slashing at you like some kind of fucking action movie or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stand on her serta and grab herself.

[James Petragalo]

It's wild.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

So yeah, she did all of that, which is a little bit weird. She kept her knives like really pristine and perfect and they were like sharp, clean. Oh, like a chef does with knives. Except with her it was like a. She took special interest in it. Really loved them. She also creeped out people at work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm already creeped out.

[James Petragalo]

These are creepy people anyway. These are slaughterhouse folks. If you can creep out the creeps, you're creepy. You know what I'm saying? So they started noticing some weird shit. Sometimes she'd be cutting meat and just staring at people. They were like, I don't like that. She would just make comments about. It'd be so easy to do this to a human. What we're doing, it's the same thing. Gee, you could really carve somebody up. And they were like, this bitch is crazy. She was staring at me like 10 minutes ago. This is real weird. And also she seemed to get a little excitement out of. Anybody was afraid of her knives and her and her knives. She would like that. She thought that was a good time. So 1974, she meets a man, a truck driver who worked at the abattoir with her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's moving the parts she carves.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. David Stanford Kellett. He's a heavy drinker.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Obviously she likes those guys.

[James Petragalo]

I mean, that's what she grew up with. So this guy's got his own problems. His drinking is kind of a self medication. He apparently witnessed his best friend get hit by a train.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Damn it.

[James Petragalo]

A few years before that. And he also was around a bus crash that killed six kids and where he rescued bloody children from a bus crash while there was dead children laying around. Oh, Lord, you drink too? I think I'd be drinking a little bit to forget that too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think I'd rather see Vietnam than see that.

[James Petragalo]

That sounds horrifying. There's just many dead kids there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't want to see children.

[James Petragalo]

That's bad. So he, by the way, she loved the fact that he was very quick to get into bar brawls. That was her thing. She found him sexy because he'd get up and just punch somebody in the face. She would back him up. Also, she'd jump in and throw fists too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is her deal?

[James Petragalo]

She's nuts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's violent.

[James Petragalo]

She loves it when they get in a fight together. That would make her real excited too. She'd be. You'd be getting some that night. So they get married on the wedding day. They arrived at church on Catherine's motorcycle with him on the back because he's so drunk he can't stand up, he can't ride. Imagine the bride and groom pulling up on a motorcycle and the groom just falls off onto the ground. And then she gets off with her big dress, tries to pull him up off the ground. That is some kind of trash wedding right there. And so during this, he's so drunk, David. But Barbara, mom pulls him aside and says, now you think Barbara's gonna threaten him and say, listen, you'd be good to my daughter. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, no. Barbara's got a warning for him. Quote, you better watch this one or she'll fucking kill you. My daughter's scary is what she says.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a bad woman.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. Stir her up the wrong way or do the wrong thing and you're fucking.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You just made a big mistake.

[James Petragalo]

She said, don't ever think of playing up on her or she'll fucking kill you. She's got something loose. She's got a screw loose somewhere. That's what she told the guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hey, congratulations.

[James Petragalo]

Hey, by the way. And then she throws rice in his face. Holy shit. That's what you want to hear while.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You'Re proud of yourself, you dummy.

[James Petragalo]

Then just after she said that it was. Oh, God. So, wedding night.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Things get sideways quick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really? That night?

[James Petragalo]

Yes. They only had sex three times, which made her extremely furious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wedding night.

[James Petragalo]

Wedding night. Three times sex. She's pissed at him because he fell asleep after three times. And she's like, you fucking piece of shit. No, she tried to strangle him with an electrical cord.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wake up, mother. I'll put you.

[James Petragalo]

I want four. Yeah, that's. He escaped, but was like, whoa. That is. If she wants to fuck you, give it to her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You better do it.

[James Petragalo]

So over the next few years, she continues her violence, obviously with him. At one point, she's heavily pregnant and she burned all of David's clothes and hit him in the head with a frying pan because he came home less than an hour late from a darts competition that he was in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was winning. What do you want?

[James Petragalo]

I went to the finals. What the hell are you gonna.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's doing great.

[James Petragalo]

You said you'd be out by the semis.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pang.

[James Petragalo]

So he fled to a neighbor's house because he had a fractured skull.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, she fractured.

[James Petragalo]

Fucking cast iron. Frying pan. Yeah. He called the cops, but then Catherine talked him into dropping the charges. Because I'll be nice now, I swear, I'll be nice. I'll be nice. You know, it's all fine. 1976, a daughter is born. Melissa.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, you didn't mouth it.

[James Petragalo]

No. You didn't. No, that was the one. She was already pregnant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, right. She was still pregnant at the time.

[James Petragalo]

When she was beating him. She was beating him pregnant. She was like seven months pregnant while she was pregnant. You don't listen very loudly. I remember. Very pregnant abattoir, pregnant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm shocked. By being beaten by a frying pan.

[James Petragalo]

That's fucking insane. It's wild. So David is pissed off now. He leaves Catherine for another woman. That's going to cause some strife. He had to flee to Queensland. Oh, you can't stay in the state. No, you gotta get out of there, boy. No. And Queensland, like we heard from our last episode, is like 10 hours away. So he's smart. Get some distance between us here. Get some distance here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Several tanks of gas.

[James Petragalo]

Catherine, though, not gonna take lying Down. No, no. The day after she left or he left, people saw Catherine violently shaking the newborn's cradle from side to side.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragalo]

And so word would get back to David that he better get back to protect his daughter because Katherine's fucking shaking him. That's what she was trying to get through here. She's diagnosed with postpartum depression. Obviously, she's hospitalized, but after she's released from the hospital, she does something way crazier. She takes her baby, Melissa, and puts it on the railroad tracks while a train is coming.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petragalo]

Luckily, some just random person walking by saw what was going on and ran down to the tracks and saved the baby. Otherwise, she was just standing there with her arms crossed, letting the baby come.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let this get back to him.

[James Petragalo]

How's he gonna kill this? Wow. She was arrested for that and admitted to a psychiatric hospital. In the hospital, she made threats. When they're talking or, like, doing therapy, she's like, well, I'm going to kill him and this is how I'm going to do it. This isn't what this is for.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No. You are a cartoon villain.

[James Petragalo]

This is crazy. I will also kill his family. And they're just writing, you're the joker. And she said, anyone else who wrongs me also, I'll kill them too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll get them.

[James Petragalo]

So August of 76, let's release her from the hospital.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They couldn't take it. She's too crazy for us.

[James Petragalo]

Get her out on the street. So she goes right back to it. Right fucking back to it. Now, David had had to come back because his mother was like. Catherine was living with his mother with the baby, and she's, like, nuts now, and the mother's taking care of her. So David comes. So in the end, it worked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He moved back in.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. To tell. Because the mom was like, you gotta come back here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta help.

[James Petragalo]

I got a baby and a crazy lady to take care of. This is insane. But, I mean, in the end, all that shit worked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

She got her way. So they moved to Ipswich, near Brisbane, where Catherine found work at the Dinmore Meatworks. Like Dinty, I was gonna say. Is that any relation to Dinty? I hope not. So in 1980, they have another daughter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's all working.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. Natasha, Marie. And she keeps getting crazy, making threats against David's family members, occasionally breaking everything he owns and burning things and stuff like that. She would always remind him that, I'll carve you up. I'll kill you in your sleep, so mind your p's and Q's here most.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Likely kill you in the morning.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. In 84, Katherine leaves David. I don't know how you could get her to leave, but whatever he was doing worked and moved back to Aberdeen with the daughters. With the twins. With her two daughters. Sorry that she's not twins. She had Melissa and Natasha. So she goes to work back at the local abattoir. But then she injures her back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragalo]

And she's on disability after that. And now she has a lot of time to find more guys. December 1987. She meets a miner named and David Saunders. He liked her because she's real into sex.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Boy, is she.

[James Petragalo]

If you're super horny, she's the lady for you. So this lasted a couple of years. She got pregnant with another daughter. But she absolutely overwhelms him with crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's got three kids.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, yeah. Then to demonstrate exactly how she gets down and how this guy should probably watch what he fucking says. Another David here, she takes his dingo puppy, which I didn't know dingoes were like a house pet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, I guess you can have a wolf puppy.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, I guess it like a coyote or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, I've seen people that have had half wolf something. Yeah. Bloodline.

[James Petragalo]

Wolf bloodline. Yeah. But not a full.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not a dingo.

[James Petragalo]

But a dingo's like a coyote.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You can't have a coyote in your house.

[James Petragalo]

That's what I mean. It's like a coyote puppy. I thought just from the dingo, he took your baby or ate your baby or whatever the fuck it is. So you figure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, because it was a wild dog, right?

[James Petragalo]

It's a wild dog. Yeah, it's like a wild dog. So it's an Australian coyote. Apparently you can have those in your house because he had an eight week old dingo puppy and she slit its throat in front of him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She slit the throat of a dog?

[James Petragalo]

Of a puppy. An eight week old puppy who does he. In front of David.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. And she told him, that's what happens when you fuck with me, basically.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Next one's you.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. He stayed around for another year. They have a daughter and he's terrified, but she keeps being crazy. At one point, she hit him in the face with an iron. She stabbed him in the stomach with a pair of scissors. And whenever she feels slighted, she just destroys everything he owns.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God dang.

[James Petragalo]

So he can't keep clothes for a long time. She'll just burn them all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't get nice ones.

[James Petragalo]

So he flees.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Okay. Takes off to scone which is his hometown. And he went into hiding and just basically he quit his job, everything. He just went into like witness protection, which is nuts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hiding and scone.

[James Petragalo]

She called police and filed a false report at one point claiming David Sanders had been violent toward her. And she got a like a restraining order, an apprehended violence order against him saying that she was the victim and all of that kind of thing. Then she approached her nephew with an offer of $500 to steal and destroy David Sanders uninsured car. Now we'll have no car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh that's fucked up.

[James Petragalo]

And that didn't work to her satisfaction. So she asked the same nephew to throw acid in his face. Which never came to fruition.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She is diabolical.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, she's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll destroy the car that you dropped the insurance policy on.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. 1995. She's got another new boyfriend here. John Charles Thomas Price. 45 years old at the time. Everybody calls him Pricey. He's a little pricey there. He's a. I'm going to read this from this one description. He was a well respected miner.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well respected one.

[James Petragalo]

I never heard a well respected. Heard like a well respected doctor, things like that. Well respected miner. You could trust him with your ore. He was real trustworthy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. He wouldn't be in there just stealing.

[James Petragalo]

No, no. Not pocketing big pockets full of coal. Walking up there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It goes in the mining cart.

[James Petragalo]

It's going in the cart with the rest of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tell you that it'll come to the service.

[James Petragalo]

You can trust this guy. He's got three kids and pretty much known as a real nice guy. Even his divorce from his ex wife ended very amicably. Everybody was fine. So he's a nice guy. He's just known as a real good cat. He works in the mines. He makes decent money, has a decent life for his kids and his family here. He's got a house at 84 Andrew street and he loved the house and everything like that. Now when Catherine comes in she thought that he was the guy and she somehow he could handle her. And she wasn't as crazy around him for some reason. So he knew about her and knew she had a reputation as kind of a nut. Small town but she could be charming. And also she's super horny. We're really dumb. We're so dumb. We can hear this girl now Listen dude, you should check this woman out. She might kill you, but she will fuck you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How much?

[James Petragalo]

All the time and hard as shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That it's worth it.

[James Petragalo]

You go Tell a woman that, yeah, now the dick's good. But he might kill you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's going to stab you.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, you might get some very severely damaged people that are into that. But guys will go, I think I can. I'll make it work. I think I can make her happy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're gonna come twice a day.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he's going to kill you.

[James Petragalo]

But you're gonna bleed once a day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So one of those days you won't do it anymore.

[James Petragalo]

No shit. So he's making good money. She's on her best behavior. He called this time in their relationship, quote, a bunch of roses, doing great. She moved into his house, obviously with all their knives and things like that, but she didn't even keep them in the bedroom. She kept him in the kitchen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She put him in the right place.

[James Petragalo]

Like she's a new person. 1998, she wants to get married. Let's get married. He doesn't want to get married.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragalo]

He keeps saying no, no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why buy the cow?

[James Petragalo]

So she gets some revenge on him. Not her usual violent revenge, much more crafty and honestly, just disturbing. She would secretly videotape items that he brought home from work. He would take outdated medical kits that they were gonna throw out. This is like working at McDonald's. And every 10 minutes they have to change the Big Macs. And as they throw them out, you eat one of them. You're eating garbage. It doesn't matter. You're not costing the company any money. But technically it's against the rules. That's what's happening here. He's stealing shit that they throw out. Outdated medical kits that are technically outdated. So the company has to keep them in date.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They still work, but for how much longer?

[James Petragalo]

But for at home it's fine, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

The bee sting swab is a little weaker now.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, it' date for whatever. So she would videotape all of this. She created a video with a commentary going on with it, presenting herself as just a concerned citizen reporting workplace theft. And sent this to his employer. Yeah. And he was fired from his job. He had for 17 years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petragalo]

Not a well respected. But talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. Like, what are you doing now?

[Jimmy Whisman]

We can't pay the mortgage.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, thanks a lot. But he found another job. But he was real leery of Katherine after that. I don't blame him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

17 years down the toilet.

[James Petragalo]

17 years he was getting promotions and doing all that. Now they're having increasingly frequent arguments. It's a lot of it is Katherine. She's very jealous. And she also wants control of all the finances. She wanted him to give her ownership of his house, or at least a share in it, at least half. She said that she had some claim for the property. I've lived here for a couple years, so, you know, I should have some legal squatters rights, you know, squatters rights here. When he said that his house and his shit is staying in his name because it's gonna go to his kids someday, she didn't like that very much. She said, quote, you'll never get me out of this house. I'll do you in first.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus, Ken.

[James Petragalo]

1999, Catherine slashes old Pricey on the left part of his chest with a knife, leaving a pretty big scar. I bet she made very specific threats, telling not only him, multiple people, anyone that would listen. I'm gonna kill him, she told the daughter, Natasha. Quote, I told him if he took me back this time it was to the death.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I guess that kind of sounds sweet.

[James Petragalo]

Till death do us part is sweet. To the death is what you say before a kumite. Like that's what you say to Jean Claude Van Damme before he attacks a man in 1987 or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. This is bloodsport.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. You don't say to. When there's somebody marrying people, the guy never stands up there and goes there to the death. Do you take this woman to be your lovely wedded wife to the death? No. That sounds really scary. She told her brother, quote, I'm going to kill Pricey, and I'm gonna get away with it. I'll get away with it. Cause I'll make out like I'm mad. I don't think you're making out like you're mad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, like she's crazy. You are crazy.

[James Petragalo]

Fucking nuts. Like The Hatterbed, early 2000. He is in constant fear. He told his neighbor that he thought Catherine would eventually kill him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think so.

[James Petragalo]

He told his friend Trevor that he was afraid Catherine would stab him in the back, literally and figuratively. He told work colleagues about waking up to find Catherine standing at the foot of his bed with her hands behind her back and a belief that she was holding a knife.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragalo]

Holy shit. February 2000, she stabbed him in the chest during an argument. Wasn't fatal, but, you know, it's a stab wound in the chest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She was going for something.

[James Petragalo]

So this is what made him kick her out of the house. He was sitting in the emergency room getting put back together, and he's like, this is crazy, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Counting stitches, going Fuck this woman.

[James Petragalo]

Oh. Then on February 29, 2000, it's leap year. Leap day. Leap day. You gotta take. Gotta do something different. You got a free day. Do it. So he went to the magistrates court and got a restraining order against Katherine. That's a good leap day. Not bad at all. He told about the previous stabbings, plural, and her threats to cut off his penis.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gonna bob it.

[James Petragalo]

And he's granted the order and she has to stay away from him and his children. That afternoon is when he told his co workers, if I don't show up for work tomorrow, it's because Katherine has killed me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or I'm just laying in a bed minus my penis.

[James Petragalo]

Or we might be having sex for the 14th time in the last 24 hours.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Either way, I'm in a lot of trouble.

[James Petragalo]

And his people at work were like, well, don't go home tonight, then. What are you doing? He said, well, my kids will be there. So he said, if I don't return home and she comes over to kill me, she might kill them. So I got to give her a better target here. How about get your kids out of the house. What are you doing? Go somewhere. Hide. So that night, after learning about the order, Catherine somehow became, everyone said, creepily calm. Her normal thing would be to blow up. And she was just very calm. Yeah. She went to her twin sister's house where she retrieved a video camera that she had been storing there for months. Shoof. She told her sister, I want to document something, but wouldn't say what. She went back to her house where she filmed each of her children making emotional declarations of love. And then she said one thing and said, I love all my children and I hope to see them again. Which is a weird thing to say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I should see him tomorrow.

[James Petragalo]

Then she said that she's taking her daughter Natasha and some other family members out for a dinner tonight. It's a special dinner, she said. They said, why does it need to be special? She said, because I want it to be special. It's a special dinner. So they said during dinner, she seemed fine. Catherine was a little disconnected, kind of in her own head, zoning out, just her and the kids, not raging, not threatening to stab anybody or anything. But Natasha said it was just. It made her uncomfortable. The kid Natasha, at one point said to her mother, I hope you're not going to kill Pricey and yourself. And her response was just to drop her two younger children off at a friend's house. That was it. Or at Natasha's house, the two younger kids go with the daughter, Natasha. So she wouldn't give a clear explanation about why she was dropping the kids off or what she needed to do. But then she went to the store and bought black lingerie. Pricey that night. Hangs out with his neighbors.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Okay. Which I thought he was scared for his kids. He's hanging out with his neighbors.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's not going home?

[James Petragalo]

No. He goes home at 11pm which makes. It's a weird thing, right? I'm so scared for my kids, I'll hang out and drink with my neighbors. But that's what he was doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's going to go hang out with them while they sleep because that's when.

[James Petragalo]

They'Re most vulnerable, I guess. Yeah. Go home at 11. That's a good point. So That's a very good point. So she. All of the children were all having sleepovers at friends houses. So he's the only one home at this point. So it's 84 Andrew street, like we said. It's empty. It's him. He goes to bed. Catherine comes by sometime after 11, lets herself into the house. She still has the keys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. She doesn't live there.

[James Petragalo]

No. She got kicked out, but there's a restraining order against her. She hangs out for hours, watches tv. She watched Star Trek.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Didn't even wake him up.

[James Petragalo]

Watched Star Trek, took a shower, then changed into her new lingerie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragalo]

Okay. Then climbed into bread with him and woke him up. So they had sex. Because guys are idiots.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cause we're dumb.

[James Petragalo]

We're dumb. And we're like, oh, I guess we'll have sex. I guess everything's fine now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I may as well.

[James Petragalo]

Everything's fine now. Yeah. Guys try that. Have a wife as a restraining order. You break in the house in like a fucking weird Speedo and then show up dry humping her in the middle of the night while she's sleeping. You're gonna end up in jail in a thong that night. Night. This guy bangs her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dressed in that fucking Borat thing.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, exactly. Dressed like fucking Borat. So they have sex. He falls asleep. She goes and gets her knives.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragalo]

By the way, she had sharpened them because there's a sharpener on the counter that's been used recently. She just did this. So at 1am she begins stabbing him while he sleeps. Torso at first he woke up immediately. Blood spatter everywhere shows that he definitely was trying to defend himself. Trying to escape from the bedroom, trying to get away from her. She chased him through the house, stabbing him everywhere.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, and he's getting weaker and Weaker.

[James Petragalo]

Oh yeah. He managed to get to the front door and get it open. That's why there was blood on the door, jam and all that. But then he ended up back in the house somehow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

So we don't know how, if he fell in or. She dragged him in. He collapsed in the hallway where he bled to death from his wounds. She stabbed him at least 37 times. Some of them were so deep, they damaged vital organs. His aorta, both lungs, liver, stomach, pancreas and left kidney. She stabbed, God dang it. Butchered this guy. One blow sliced most of the lower part of his kidney off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petragalo]

Then. Then she goes to work on him. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now he's dead.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, yeah. And what happens now was described by the supreme court judge later on as considerable. Needing considerable expertise and an obviously steady hand to do. She removed his skin, the whole thing, in one complete piece.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whoa.

[James Petragalo]

She try that with an orange. It's impossible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

With anything.

[James Petragalo]

With anything. Try that with. You see people in orange once in a while. Dude, I. I go mind blown how you did that? That's what's going on here. She skinned a man like a fucking orange. One piece. Imagine how steady you'd have to be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, you'd have to go. Yeah, that's crazy.

[James Petragalo]

Then including the skin of his head, face, nose, everything. Neck, torso, genitals, legs, whole body. She had the whole sleeve, whole thing. Just a suit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

A john suit. Yeah. She left one small section untouched. And that is the skin of his upper left chest where she stabbed him and left a big scar. She left that there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, Woof.

[James Petragalo]

So she skinned it. She skinned him. I'm sorry. Then she hung his skin on a meat hook.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragalo]

That she had installed that night while he was sleeping to go between the rooms. Like when the guy walked in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. He saw the.

[James Petragalo]

That's what he saw. Because she hung it up from a meat hook. Imagine what that looks like in a house. No, that's fucking crazy. Okay, there's more. We'll find out about that in a second. So Pricey doesn't show up for work. They call the cops. They arrive and. We told you what happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She did that in one night?

[James Petragalo]

One night.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's so fast.

[James Petragalo]

She knows what she's doing. It's crazy. So when they went to go to his house, the cop said, I knew Mr. Price. I knew that he was a hard working and reliable man. So it was unusual for him to not turn up to work when the cops know. You don't. No call, no show. That's A small town, pricey. Never no calls, no shows. So, yeah, like we said, he went in, he saw. Oh, God, I got blood on my arm. What's that about? It's cold. It's gross. They find the sharpening stone on the kitchen counter. And the cops find a pool of blood measuring 1 by 2 meters deep enough that it fully hadn't congealed. Even hours later. It's a lot of blood. A whole man's worth of blood. The forensic investigator arrives and he. He was told, we got a real. This is horrifying. But he said he didn't expect this. He said, we came in through the laundry and the back of the premises, and there was an aroma. It was quite a macabre thing. It was a sweet odor, a nice odor, as if Mom's cooking his stew. Okay. They said the first thing they found was the skin hanging from the meat hook. He said, walk inside and one of the first things you see is Mr. Price's skin or pelt hanging from the door. Hanging from the door from a meat hook. They said they were. They searched through the pelt for his genitals. It was detailed. They also said the victim had first been attacked whilst lying in bed, then tried to run for his life. But as you go out toward the lounge room, the blood stain is getting heavier and heavier. Big swipes on the wall where he's blood soaked himself and sliding against the wall. He's actually opened the front door and there's blood spatter on the screen door. So he's nearly made it out. Not that it would have helped him. He would have died, certainly. But you just see the enormity of where it starts in the bedroom. And it just progressively gets worse and worse until you get to the point where he's died.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My Christ.

[James Petragalo]

Then they said, we examined the body. You can see the body has been there in its entirety. There was a big stain on the floor where the head would have been.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A big round spot.

[James Petragalo]

It's been skinned first. She skinned the head first, then cut it off. You can see where she's walking and carrying it to the kitchen. There's a drip, drip, drip, drip of blood all the way leading to the cooktop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Lord.

[James Petragalo]

She had cut. I think it's the gluteus maximus, they called it, off his backside. And it's a big muscle. She cut it into five different steaks and she cooked them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His ass.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. Baked them in the oven, roasted them. Two of them were on one plate, two on another plate, and a fifth one was out for the dog, I believe. But it wasn't touched.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my word.

[James Petragalo]

They said that those meals were like a trophy. They had names of each person who was supposed to get them. She had name cards, like a very formal dinner seating. She was gonna feed him to people. The names displayed were. On the meals, were two of his children. She's gonna feed him to his children.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Feed his ass to his kids.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, God, that is fucked up. If they didn't call the cops. That was the plan. That's what she was gonna do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She'd have to clean all that up.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. Apparently, she cut him with such surgical precision. She removed his head at the C3, C4 junction with a clean cut, perfectly. She took his head to the kitchen, along with portions of his buttocks, obviously, and started to cook. She also prepared vegetables. Potato, pumpkin, cabbage and zucchini.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, what goes with that, you know?

[James Petragalo]

So you gotta find. I hear pumpkin always. That's what they say. So she put his head in a large pot with vegetables and set it to boil. Just did it. The pieces she'd cut from his buttocks went into the oven like we said. Wow. She even seasoned them and everything. She cooked them like steaks. She didn't just throw them in there. Arranged them on the plate, plated them nicely, did the name cards, did all of that. By the way, when the cops got there, it was still boiling on the stove. It was on. His head was still boiling in the pot. When they opened it up, it wasn't just a head in a pot. It was a boiling head in the pot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragalo]

It's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Coming off the bone.

[James Petragalo]

So where the hell is she?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where'd she go?

[James Petragalo]

So they. As they moved down the hallway, one of the cops said, we heard what appeared to be someone snoring coming from one of the bedrooms. So we knew that there was someone alive in the house. In the bedroom. They found her on the bed unconscious. She passed out, they said. I tried to wake her. She's obviously drugged on something and couldn't wake her properly. She's very groggy and wasn't responding, so we carried her outside. She was unresponsive, though, they said. I wasn't sure whether she tried to kill herself with sleeping pills or whatever, but she certainly wasn't injured in any other way. Turns out she took an overdose of prescription medications and was found unconscious there. Didn't take enough to kill herself, though. The blood test shows levels consistent with therapeutic doses.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sleeping time.

[James Petragalo]

She took enough to feel good and pass out. Didn't expect anybody to come home. She was so probably overwhelmed with adrenaline after that. She couldn't sleep, couldn't come down. It's like after a show, it's hard to sleep.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So hard.

[James Petragalo]

Can't imagine after she didn't even have.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A flight to catch the next day.

[James Petragalo]

Butchering and fucking cooking a man. Yeah. She's got to get up at 6 for a flight, so she already told her brother she'd get away with it. So, I mean, that's what's going on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragalo]

They bring her in. Once she's medically cleared. They bring her in to her. No, to interview her. Oh, they want to talk to her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're not even charging her yet. Well, I mean, we don't know for sure.

[James Petragalo]

She's definitely in the handcuffed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Questions.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah, they want her to admit to it. Obviously, it'd be easier. So they said she was yelling and screaming and saying that she'd been abused by men and suffering domestic violence throughout her life. They said, but she never admitted any remorse for killing John. She was just saying, I did it because I've been abused and he's abusive and everybody's abusive. They said she kept saying she doesn't remember anything about the night. They asked her about her death and she said, I don't know anything about it. About John Price's death. Later on, she said, the last thing I remember, I was going out for tea with my daughter and kids coming home. And then she also said, though Catherine, this is. The detective, said, Catherine presented me during the interview with this scenario that I needed to go and explore, that perhaps she believes or is claiming that she committed this act because of the severe ongoing domestic violence she'd occurred during her life. Then he also said she has a rat cunning that she won't then go on and say, yes, this is why I did it. She's never given the family peace. So you know about why she did it. She's never been honest about it. She blamed him by saying that he had been violent toward her, but she won't admit doing it. She just admits saying, I don't remember what happened that night.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't remember. And then here's a bunch of excuses and bad things.

[James Petragalo]

Yeah. Just in case I decide I did it. But they said, we know that she left the crime scene at least once and that was to take her car back to her home on McCoyne street and Park it well up into the backyard. It was also the fact that Price's bank account had some money taken out of It, I think at about 12:15am, two $500 lots, we believe Catherine did in an ATM. She got there, watched some Star Trek, got his card, went and got some money, changed, took a shower, did all that shit. Then they said in the video, they said back at the daughter's house, she set up a video camera. They said she loved that video camera. And she started recording things. It was quite bizarre, sort of like a last will of what she was going to, wanting to portray. They said she's been planning this for days. She watched a video, drives to his home, wakes him up, watches a bit of Star Trek, has sex, and then she strikes. Wow. One guy said here Catherine was. The detective said Catherine was workshopping the crime in her own mind and just dropping hints to family here and there. There was information from her brother that she did say those particular words, that she would kill pricey and she'd get away with it because they think she was mad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragalo]

Which, I mean, she is nuts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's definitely mad.

[James Petragalo]

They said there was other comments. The, you know, if he takes me back, it's to the death. Death. Then the physical evidence. The slinky black negligee the cop said was found to have sperm on it. That's not good. It was also found in the bathroom where they believe she showered, which she must have after she butchered him out. She cleaned herself and changed clothes. She could remember having sex with him in vivid detail, but couldn't recall taking medication or anything like that. She says she has no memory of any of the murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So did the negligee have blood on it? Did she do it in that?

[James Petragalo]

No, I don't think so. She went out changed. Yeah, probably. I want to get that on my knife. Maybe it's easier to fucking clean that way. Yeah, one of the most. Because that's what a lot of mob guys would do. And they can get in the tub and fucking start cutting it up. Yeah, they want to get shit on your suit. So the ATM records, like we said, 230 and 235. She used his bank card to withdraw $1,000. She had replaced the card in his wallet as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In the morning.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, yeah. She used his car to drive to the ATM as. As footage we'll find she drove back to the house. Wow. So they also find a collection of violent horror films that she has, which a lot of people have. One Resurrection, it was called. Depicted scenes that are exactly like what she did. Skinning, decapitation, and hanging skin on meat hooks. They said, oh, my God, did she Use that as. Like. That's a smart move. Yeah, I like that. That's a good idea. They also uncovered her extensive history of threats against him and everything like that. So this town goes batshit over this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

This is 2,000 people. If you fuck somebody who's not your husband, they all know about it. Imagine if you kill a guy and skin him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Take all of his skin in one pull.

[James Petragalo]

Wow. One pull. And make fucking dinner out of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

So people are freaked out. Tons of tourists start coming to the town, but just to gawk, Just to fucking be like, oh, this is the weird little town where something happened. It was one of those things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Seasoned his ass here.

[James Petragalo]

Oh, man. So they go to court. Court. And the judge later says, at no time, either as a barrister or as a judge did I ever strike anything of the horrific nature of Catherine Mary Knight's case. She pleads not guilty. Obviously, the judge said, she was quite small, unimpressive. In a crowd, you would certainly never notice her. She didn't look like a monster is what he's trying to say here. So then, out of nowhere, right before they're about to go forward with the trial, she just changes her mind and says, I'm pleading guilty. Guilty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragalo]

No explanation, no nothing. The judge said, I was somewhat nervous about this because I was concerned that if I took a guilty plea and sentenced her, then she would appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeal and say that she was insane at the time she made the guilty plea. So in order to make sure that it is a plea that will hold up, he sends her for a psychiatric evaluation. He said, I decided to get a court expert to examine her. And the psychiatrist came to exactly the same conclusion as the other psychiatrists that had seen her, namely that she wasn't insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, how do they say that?

[James Petragalo]

They said she was quite sane, but she was a bad woman. Okay, yeah, that's a good way to put it here. They also, the court heard three psychiatrists all diagnosed her with a personality disorder, which is not a psychiatric illness. No, she's just a dick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's an angry bitch.

[James Petragalo]

That's it. It's actually just a disorder, the way you relate to other people. That's all it is. If she doesn't get her own way, if you crossed her, her, or if she imagined that you had done something or said something about her, she would get payback. They said that throughout the whole of evidence. It didn't matter what a witness said. She wouldn't look at the witness. It didn't matter what photograph or video. She wouldn't look at it. She sat looking straight ahead, absolutely impassive. They said there was never a sign on her face of any reaction to any evidence. One time, they said there was one time when there was. They were describing the crime scene, or it might have been the crime scene tape of it, the videotape. She started rocking violently backwards and forwards and screaming and then threw herself on the floor and did the same. They said what she wanted. The judge said, when she wanted an adjournment, she manipulated her behavior. So that's what she got. After she resumed the same manner as she had before, he said, I don't think she'd switched off. So the judge is going to say to her, you're taking a guilty plea. Fine. Oof. He says that she has. Wow. She has not expressed any contrition or remorse, and if released, she poses a serious threat to the security of society. He talks about the crime in detail and what she did and said that they had pleasurable sexual intercourse before Mr. Price retired for the night. Not only did she plan the murder murder, but she also enjoyed the horrific acts which followed in its wake as part of a ritual of death and defilement. Her evil actions were playing out her resentments arising out of her rejection by Mr. Price, her impending expulsion from his home, and her refusal to share with her his assets, particularly his home, which he wanted to retain for his children. At no time did the prisoner express any regret for what she has done or any remorse for having done done it. Her attitude is that is, that regard is consistent with her general approach to the many acts of violence which she has engaged in against her various partners. Namely, they deserved it. He said. He talked about her killing a puppy, right? Oh, man. He said, the prisoner's history of violence, together with her flawed personality caused me to conclude that she is, without a doubt, a very dangerous person and likely, if released into the community, to commit further acts of serious violence, including murder against those who cross her, particularly males. Catherine Mary Knight, you have pleaded guilty and been convicted of the murder of John Charles Price. In respect of your crime, I sentence you to. You, ma', am, may fuck off. Life in prison without parole.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

She is. Yeah. It was the maximum penalty. And the crowd went crazy and everybody was applauding. The judge said, to sentence any person to life imprisonment is a big thing. To sentence a woman to life imprisonment for me was an even bigger thing. So this was as bad a case as you got. So she had to go to jail for the term of her life. By the way, she's a real trailblazer. She's the first woman in Australian history to be sentenced to life without.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the first person on the planet.

[James Petragalo]

Over here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. To get the skin off in one go.

[James Petragalo]

I've never heard of that before.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Never.

[James Petragalo]

Like I said, do it with an orange. And I'm impressed. So she earned a couple of nicknames as well. Australia's Hannibal Lecter and Lady Leatherface. Which is the one I like a lot. That's a good one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Alliteration and everything.

[James Petragalo]

Lady Leatherface. That's the name of this fucking episode right there. That is good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hannibal's no good.

[James Petragalo]

That's kind of boring. Yeah, Lady Leatherface. Now we're talking. I could see that. That's. We don't even know if she ate anything. No. Yeah. Maybe. Who knows?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who knows?

[James Petragalo]

So June 2006. She appeals. And they said, get the. Are you fucking kidding me? The justice who wrote the judgment said this was an appalling crime. Almost beyond contemplation in a civilized society. If there was a deeper hole to put you in. We put you in one. In prison. She is not allowed to share a cell with anyone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She does.

[James Petragalo]

Just too dangerous. They don't think she's gonna kill somebody. She's not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Catch anything with a sharp edge. And you're in so much trouble.

[James Petragalo]

And if you're rooming with somebody in a bunk, something's gonna piss you off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Absolutely.

[James Petragalo]

Clean the toilet properly. Something. Wow. She now says she's a Christian, though.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't care.

[James Petragalo]

All fixed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't care.

[James Petragalo]

All fixed now. Found Jesus, so it's all good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petragalo]

This is the one, lady. Even Jesus, in whatever form he's done, would be like, I don't know, lady. I don't quite believe you. This is a little. You know what? No, not you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't forgive you.

[James Petragalo]

You know, I'll save and stuff, but it's kind of more of a slogan than a. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

When I say I forgive, I mean, like, in general. Cheat on your taxes.

[James Petragalo]

A guy stole some stuff from me. I forgive him. You know, this is. You're a sick bitch. That's all I'm gonna say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Accidentally took some shit and didn't pay for it. It got hidden under the bottom of the cart. Whatever.

[James Petragalo]

That's in the Bible. Right? Don't be a sick bitch. I think is in there somewhere.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You sick bitch.

[James Petragalo]

Speaking of weird and sick and odd. The house that all of this took place in, by the way. I'd like to show it to you here. Nice house. Just a little.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow. It's very nice.

[James Petragalo]

Nice house. Brick house. Nice raised porch. Very nice. It is currently for sale. Hey. It has sold a couple of times since then, but is currently for sale. 84St Andrew street in Aberdeen. It is a 691 meters squared, whatever the fuck that means. I have no idea what the square feet I gotta get a calculator to figure out. It seems like a decent sized house. By the way, here are some of the rooms that shit took place in. Oh yeah. Wanna see the kitchen? There it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There it is.

[James Petragalo]

Ah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It exists online.

[James Petragalo]

Oh no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that remodeled or is that the one?

[James Petragalo]

Oh man, it looks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who knows?

[James Petragalo]

I don't know. I see like stone countertops. That looks 2,000. So it feels like somebody you had to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta take the blood out.

[James Petragalo]

350,000 rubax. So whatever that is, get in there. I don't know. Whatever the Australian affiliate money is, we can't afford that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Should we get it?

[James Petragalo]

I don't know. That might be either. Either $3 million or $72,000. I'm not sure which one it is, but.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And can you buy a house in Australia if you're not a citizen?

[James Petragalo]

I'm not sure. I don't know. Why not?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want that.

[James Petragalo]

My money's good. We'll give it to one of our listeners and have them buy it for us. Who cares? We'll figure it out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragalo]

There you go, everybody. Aberdeen, Australia. Hope you enjoyed that. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragalo]

I said that's 15 pounds of murder in a two pound. Nevermind. 10. That's a lot of murder in a two pound bag. So, so quickly before we have to end here. ShutUpAndGiveMerder.com is where you go for the tickets to all the shows, merchandise. Tickets in philly, tickets in D.C. tickets in Seattle. Everything else is sold out. So check that out. Definitely get on whatever app you're listening on. Give us five stars. That helps a shitload. Follow on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram, Smalltown pod on Facebook. Patreon.com Crime and sports, anybody? $5 a month or above. Tons of back episodes, Hundreds of bonus stuff you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription, new ones every other week. This week for Crime and sports, which you'll get, of course. Amusement park disasters again coming at you. And then the prisoner Dating game is back, everybody. In addition to that, you get all of our shows, Crime and sports. Your stupid opinions, both Small town murders all ad free on Patreon. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. You can't beat the it. It's the best damn deal going in podcasting. Patreon.com crimeinsports you deserve it. You're good enough. You're good enough, damn it. So get in there and do that and keep coming back and hanging out with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bye.

[James Petragalo]

Sam.