Madness, Murder & Multiple Personalities - Fredericksburg, Texas

Summary

Small Town Murder: “Madness, Murder & Multiple Personalities - Fredericksburg, Texas”

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Episode Date: November 29, 2025
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Subject: The case of Scott Panetti—mental illness, murder, and a bizarre trial

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Overview

In this episode, James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman dive deep into a chilling and darkly surreal murder case from Fredericksburg, Texas. The story centers on Scott Panetti, a man with a long and well-documented history of severe mental illness, whose descent into psychosis would intersect with violence, leading to a double homicide, a nine-hour standoff, and arguably one of the most outrageous trials in Texas history. The hosts combine research, dark comedy, and personal anecdotes to unpack the small town’s history, Panetti’s unraveling mind, and the criminal justice system’s abysmal handling of extreme mental illness. The case is both a tragic crime and an indictment of how the law interacts with the truly insane.

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Setting the Scene: Fredericksburg, Texas

[04:19 – 12:09]

• Small town vibes: Population about 10,800, known for its German heritage (“Fritztown”), wineries, and sprawling ranches.
• Hosts’ personal story: The case was discovered on a long road trip in 2017, years before covering it, and James admits, “I’ve just been saving it… hoarding it.” [03:18]
• Town quirks:
  • High median home price despite average incomes.
  • Odd reviews—one star: “Very closed off from the rest of the world…it’s great if you have money, otherwise you’re a servant.” [09:15]
  • Local events: County fairs, livestock judging, washer pitching, and “goat roping”—which the hosts riff on.
• Quote:
  • “If you ask someone a question, they go, ‘Nine. Y’all ain’t doing it.’ That’s Texas German, I guess. I don’t know. Who the fuck knows.” —James [08:00]

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The Descent of Scott Panetti

[12:10 – 27:31]

Early Years & Onset of Mental Illness

• Born 1958, Wisconsin: Originally a gentle, soft-hearted boy; hated hunting.
• Behavior change in teens: Star athlete but punched assistant principal, bounced between high schools.
• Mother’s hindsight:
  • “Looking back, I remember the danger signs … I told myself that Scott was just a unique person. He’s not crazy, he’s just interesting.” [14:35–14:55]
• Navy service & discharge: Lasted only briefly, probably released for psychological reasons (not arthritis as he told his parents).
• Mental breakdowns:
  • Diagnosed repeatedly with schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder.
  • Routine hospitalization throughout the 1980s, increasingly severe paranoia, delusions, and hostility toward his family.

Violence and Increasing Instability

• Marriage & family: Married twice, fathered four children despite escalating illness.
• Paranoia peaks:
  • Believed the devil lived in his house/furniture—“He took all the family’s furniture … and buried it in the backyard ... like the remains of Pompeii.” [20:46]
  • “He also then nailed the curtains in the house shut ... so the neighbors would not film him.” [21:33]
• Frequent committals: Over a dozen hospitalizations, multiple diagnoses (schizophrenia, depression, suicidal and homicidal ideation).
• Reluctance/inability to stay medicated: Combined with heavy drinking and deteriorating relationships.

“If this man can marry, you have no excuse”

• “If this guy can find a wife…what is your excuse?” —James, riffing on repeated marriages, despite mental collapse [26:03]

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The Murders and Standoff

[27:31 – 38:37]

Lead-Up to Violence

• Threats and protection orders: After years of abuse and threats, Scott’s second wife, Sonia, left with their daughter and obtained a protective order.
• Warning signs ignored:
  • Sonia and her father repeatedly told police about Scott’s threats and guns, but nothing meaningful was done.

September 8, 1992: The Attack

• Preparation:
  • Shaved head bald (“in 1992, that was considered aberrant behavior”), sawed off a shotgun, dressed in military fatigues.
• The scene:
  • Broke into the Alvarado home (his in-laws), assaulted Sonia, cornered the family, and fatally shot both Joe and Amanda Alvarado with a deer rifle.
  • Tried to shoot Sonia, but the rifle jammed. He kidnapped Sonia and daughter at gunpoint, leading to a nine-hour standoff in a remote bunkhouse.
• Memorable quote:
  • “He shaves his head... and saws off a shotgun…dresses in full military fatigues…this is going to get bad.” —James [34:27]

---

A Legal Circus: The Bizarre Trial of Scott Panetti

[38:37 – 71:44]

Confession and Multiple Personalities

• Confession: Scott confessed, but insisted the murders were committed by an alter ego—“Sarge Iron Horse.”
• Police and community failure:
  • Sonia recounted repeated failures by law enforcement to confiscate his guns or keep the family safe, which the chief dismissed.
  • “Their main concern was upholding the image of Fredericksburg as a nice tourist town. That’s all they gave a fuck about.” —James summarizing Sonia's grievance [43:41]

Too Insane for Justice, But Not for Texas

• Competency hearings:
  • Multiple experts agreed he was deeply mentally ill, incapable of rational communication, and unable to assist his defense.
  • Despite clear evidence, a jury found him competent.
• Decision to self-represent:
  • Judge allowed Panetti to act as his own attorney.
  • “His sister said he had a delusion that only an insane person could prove insanity.” —James [48:52]

The Most Insane Trial in Texas

• Trial spectacle:
  • Dressed in garish “1920s cowboy” costumes: 10-gallon hats, bandanas, chaps, purple shirts, and green ties [57:19–58:06]
  • Adopted John Wayne-style speech, rambling monologues, erratic behavior in court.
  • Subpoenaed “200-plus” people including Jesus Christ, JFK, Ann Bancroft, and the Pope [51:46–52:44]
• Psychiatric reactions:
  • “My main impression was, why was the judge allowing this crazy man to defend himself? I thought to myself, my God, how in the world can our legal system allow an insane man to defend himself?” [59:34]
  • “The trial was a big fiasco … the courtroom had an atmosphere of a circus.”
• His own lawyer:
  • “[Scott] was only interested in his own show…every time I tried to talk about jury selection or discuss any of the items … he instantly changed the subject.” [56:05]
• On the stand:
  • Delivered a barely-coherent, surreal narrative:

    “Sarge woke up, cut off Scott’s hair. Sarge suited up. Shells, canteen, pouch, 30-06. Tropical hat. Tropical top. Bunkhouse. Fast. Haircut fast. Suited up fast. Boom. Really fast. Fast. ... Blood demons. Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, Lord. Oh, you.” [66:41–68:22]

  • When pressed, responded to the judge: “You puppet.” [68:36]

Jury and Sentencing

• Found guilty after 2 hours of deliberation; given the death penalty.
• Memorable exchanges:
  • “Do you know what mitigating means?” —Panetti
  • “Not really.” —Juror
  • “Me neither.” —Panetti [70:07]
• **Even Sonia, the victims’ daughter, decried the farce, noting the jury never heard the whole story of his illness.

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Aftermath: Decades on Death Row and Final Fate

[71:44 – 76:13]

• Legal appeals:
  • Texas determined to execute; Board of Pardons refused relief.
  • U.S. Supreme Court finally ruled that prior competency proceedings had violated his rights.
    • “How can this be just? … It was not fair to let a mentally ill man be his own attorney when he didn’t know what he was doing.”—Scott’s sister [60:56]
• Stays and appeals: More than 30 years of legal wrangling; never executed.
• Death: Scott Panetti died of natural causes, aged 67, in May 2025, still on death row.
  • “They left him on death row anyway. May 26, 2025… He dies… at 67.” —James [76:12]
• Victims: Joe and Amanda Alvarado are buried in Fredericksburg.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If this guy can find a wife—what is your excuse?” —James [26:03]
• “He took all the family’s furniture ... and buried it in the backyard.” —James [20:46]
• “I witnessed a number of incidents where the inappropriate use of language and actions show that Scott was mentally ill and incompetent.” —Doctor at the trial [62:12]
• “I don’t need [Jesus Christ] to subpoena, He’s right here with me.” —Scott Panetti, in court [64:30]
• “Sarge boom boom. Sarge boom, boom, boom. Sarge is gone. No more Sarge. ... Blood demons. Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh Lord. Oh, you.” —Scott Panetti, trial testimony [66:41–68:22]
• “He’s not crazy, he’s just interesting.” —Scott’s mother [14:55]
• “How can this be just?” —Psychologist, watching the trial [59:34]
• “God bless Texas. Thy will be done. Oh, the law sometimes sleeps, but it never dies.” —Scott Panetti, closing argument [69:13]
• “God bless Texas. Tips his hat to ‘em.” —James after verdict [69:32]

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Key Themes

• Total system failure: Despite decades of documented, florid psychosis, Panetti was found competent, allowed to act as his own attorney, and sentenced to death.
• Dark comedy and horror: The hosts use humor to call out the absurdity and tragedy at every turn, especially Texas’s stubbornness.
• Family devastation: Not only the loss, but the way Sonia—herself a victim—was failed by every institution.

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Essential Timestamps

• Town background & hosts' discovery of case: [03:18–12:09]
• Scott Panetti’s early life & mental unraveling: [12:10–27:31]
• Murders & standoff: [34:27–38:37]
• Trial, circus atmosphere, and legal horror: [57:00–71:44]
• Death and aftermath: [76:01–76:25]

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Conclusion

This is a poignant, infuriating, and at times surreal look at what happens when a community, state, and justice system mishandle severe mental illness, ending in a legal disaster so egregious it still reverberates decades later. With their trademark blend of research, empathy, irreverence, and wit, the hosts ensure this case—equal parts dark comedy and tragedy—leaves an indelible mark.

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Recommendation:
If you enjoy true crime laced with outrage and gallows humor, and want to hear a case that will have you questioning the very nature of legal sanity, this is an unmissable listen.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yay and choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I am Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us on another absolutely insane edition of Small Murder Express. This is one that I've been saving for almost nine years now. This case. Oh no, it's so good. And I've just been saving it. I don't know why I've been hoarding it like it's. I'm telling you. I'll tell you the story as we get into it because you'll remember when I found it because I told you about it at the time. So very quickly head over to shut upandgivememurder.com youm can get all your merchandise tickets for live shows. None of them are available right now. December shows are sold out. We are going to be announcing in the next, I think week the slate of 2026 shows. Those tickets will be available this month in December before Christmas. So definitely get those. Shut upandgivemerder.com also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and you'd stupid opinions which are just hilarious. Do yourself a favor then get yourself Patreon as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do it.

[James Petregallo]

Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. It's a cup of coffee. It's well worth it. We give you more than, well, more than that. First of all, you're going to get hundreds of bonus episodes immediately upon subscription. All the back ones that you've never heard before. Then you get new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder and you get it all. Every damn drop of what we put out this week, which you're gonna get for crime in sports. We're gonna talk about how the sport of cycling is so dangerous. We are gonna talk about so many dead cyclists, just mangled and mauled. And they die in horrible ways too. It's not just oh, they fell over and died. It's crazy how they die. Then for small town murder we're gonna talk about Charles Starkweather. Killed 11 people, blamed his 13 year old girlfriend. We'll talk all about it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a lot 60s or 50s.

[James Petregallo]

50S, late 50s. They thought he was James Dean, this guy. We'll talk all about it. So it's crazy stuff there. That's patreon.com crimeinsports and you also get all of our shows, Crime in sports, your stupid opinions, all the small town murders. All ad free as well. Ad free. You can't beat it. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show too. So do that. Get in there and do that. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs, the throats and everything and let's all shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are going to Texas this week. We're going to Fredericksburg, Texas. Oh hey. Which we remember this because, okay, this case was found. We were driving 2017. This show, Small Town Murder was about two months old at this point. And we were going the south by southwest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

15 hours each day.

[James Petregallo]

16. The festival in Austin. We had been accepted with crime and sports and it was a big deal because it's the first acknowledgement we had of any kind of anything. So we drove all over in south.

[Jimmy Wissman]

By Southwest at the time.

[James Petregallo]

It's a big festival and it was a big deal. Great credit to have. And so we got in Jimmy's Honda Civic and we had enough money to share a bed in a hotel room that was $89 a night. And we ate subway sandwiches from gas stations cause that's all we could afford. And we did all this, did the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Show and made a U turn and went.

[James Petregallo]

We did not stay after doing the show. We drove straight back. So Fredericksburg is on the way to Austin as we'll talk about. And as we drove through first of all ton of wineries, I was like, what's going on here? Then we found Bobby Colorado, the animal trainer who does a bunch of animal training for movies and then became a crime and sports character based on that. And so I just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And it's the home of lbj.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And as we were going. I was just. As we were going through small towns, I was Googling murder this town. Just because that's what we were doing. And I found this case, and I was like, holy shit, this is awesome. And I told you about it, and I put it away, and now we're finally gonna do it. So I'm excited. Fredericksburg, Texas. It's in central Texas. It is about an hour and 10 minutes to San Antonio and about an hour and a half to Austin. I remember being excited, too, because we were almost to Austin finally. We were so close.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's crazy to drive from Arizona to Austin so far. And so far it's literally six hours to get to Texas, and then 10 hours once you get to Texas.

[James Petregallo]

That was when we were famously driving through El Paso, and Jimmy looked to the south and went, man, that side of El Paso looks like shit. And I went, yeah, that's not even America, Jimmy. That's why.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That is Mexico, Jim.

[James Petregallo]

That is Juarez.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Doesn't matter. Mexico. Hell, that is Juarez. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somehow a step below Tijuana.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it is. It's more dangerous than Tijuana. It's four hours, and Tijuana is a party town.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it is.

[James Petregallo]

Juarez is not a party town.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They'll pickpocket you, but they want you alive.

[James Petregallo]

That's fine. Yeah. Four hours and five minutes to Lancaster, Texas. Our last episode In Texas, episode 609, murder is life. And that was a twisted, crazy one. So I'm not even gonna get into what that was. Gillespie County. This is in area code 8.

[Jimmy Wissman]

3.

[James Petregallo]

Population here. 10,864. Not a big town. You remember, it has that, like, kind of quaint downtown area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then it's very spread out with wineries and big properties and all that. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We were driving down that fucking freeway, and there was a giant ranch right there. Beautiful. And the fucking freeway running right through the front.

[James Petregallo]

Right through it. Yeah. It's like, man, that is not idyllic. Median household income here, $54,771. So not a ton of money, but the median home cost is crazy. $548,400.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

That is a lot compared to the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They must have lots of land, huh?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. All the houses. We saw a lot of ranches, vineyards, things like that. Bring the average up. The nickname of this town, they call it Fritztown for a reason. We'll get into here a little bit of History to explain that. The county seat. First of all, it's the county seat of Gillespie County. It was named after Prince Frederick of Prussia, which is Germany now. So German residents refer to it as Fritztown and which some businesses still use as well. It's notable as the center of Texas German, which is a dialect spoken by the first generation of German settlers who initially refused to learn English.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is it? Just like that.

[James Petregallo]

If you ask someone a question, they go nine. Y' all ain't doing it. That's Texas German. I guess. I don't know. Who the fuck knows? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How many guns should I carry? Nine, y'.

[James Petregallo]

All. Wait, is he German or just heavily armed? I can't decide.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What a town.

[James Petregallo]

So reviews of this town. Here's five stars. Since the day I was born, I have been a member of the Fredericksburg community.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That is dramatic. It's been a blessing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Born and raised is easier to say.

[James Petregallo]

Way easier. Since the day I was born, it's been a blessing to grow up in this beautiful German town. It gave me so many chances to grow as women. Such as giving me the opportunity to be a Stonewall and Gillespie cow. Gillespie County Fair. Duchess Pageant. Pageant. Loon pageant. Luna.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She must be hot.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe. Yeah. Who knows? I bet her hair's big though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She might look like lbj. We don't know.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know. Three stars. Housing is typically expensive for a nice house. There are many run down houses as well in certain parts of town. We didn't get to see any of those. One star. Very closed off from the rest of the world. It's great if you have money. All otherwise you're a servant.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Are ya?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That's most places and one star administration and teachers target kids they deem bad and use excessive punishment for minor offenses. This person's kid's a fuck up. Yeah, that's what that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why did you tell your kid to stop being a nudna?

[James Petregallo]

To control your goddamn kids over here. Things to do here. All right. The Gillespie County Fair. And here is from their website. There's nothing like a good old fashioned county fair.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's true.

[James Petregallo]

And the Gillespie County Fair does it right up does it upright? Not does it right up does it upright. With a stock show, entertainment, rides, great food and more. There's even a fair parade down main street. And of course a contest crowning the next Gillespie County Fair queen. Oh God.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, a hot chick.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the coveted. And they say of course we couldn't have a parade without a fair queen. So there's that it's returning. They said they will have a paramuteal horse racing. What the frig is that? Paramuteal. M U T E or M U T U E? L Parimudial. I don't know what that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've never heard of that.

[James Petregallo]

And then there's livestock shows.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's a paramilitary and they just spelled it wrong.

[James Petregallo]

Who knows? Very wrong Racing camouflage horses. They have an open cattle show. They have. What else here? Livestock judging. You just go by and you go. I don't like the looks of that cow. Just judge it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Real questionable.

[James Petregallo]

Fair food, household exhibits. A washer pitching tournament where you bring your own washer and you throw it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah, the washers. Yeah, yeah, the big washers.

[James Petregallo]

The big washers. That's an antique tractor. Displays. Okay. There's also the Stonewall Peach Jamboree and Rod.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jamboree and Rodeo.

[James Petregallo]

That's the other one. She was a fair duchess of. Was the Stonewall. Yeah, the Stonewall Peach Jamboree and Rodeo. Nightly dances, rodeo peach queen, coronation goat roping, which Isn't that an insult. Goat roper. Isn't that an insult? That means you're not a. You're a pussy if you're a goat roper. A washer. Washer throwing again. It's a big deal. A 42 tournament, which is like 21 if you can count higher. It is. It's like some kind of table game. Food trucks, beer, wine, who knows? Oh, also a peach eating contest. A pit spitting contest.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How do you win? I guess you eat the peach.

[James Petregallo]

Fastest, fastest, and the most of them, which will just make you shit everywhere if you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's not good.

[James Petregallo]

That's fiber pit spitting. There's also mutton busting music and of course rodeo. So gotta have that. We gotta get everyone involved. That said, let's talk about some murder here. Cause this is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Here we go. Like I said, a case that I have been sitting on for nine years in my notes. And I've just wanted to do it. And I'm like, ah, let's do it another time. Because it's too good. I've just been saving it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I kind of set. We're doing it on this because I want to know all about whoever's performing at the Fredericks.

[James Petregallo]

I know, but they don't. They don't tell you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They give no name.

[James Petregallo]

There's no information. That's what I mean. Yeah, I looked out. Believe me, I was looking and it was hard to find.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who's buying that?

[James Petregallo]

So let's talk about some murder. Let's talk about a dude first here. Let's talk about a guy, a dude. Scott Lewis Panetti. P A N E T T I Panetti. He's born February 28, 1958. He is born in Wisconsin. From Wisconsin. North central Wisconsin. Yes he is. And well, let's talk about when he was a kid. His parents, his mother said she remembers him as affectionate and even soft hearted as a boy. Yeah. Jack Panetti, his dad recalls one time when their oldest son Tom and then Scott, also Scott was 14. They went deer hunting and Jack Panetti said Scott was all shook up. Oh, he hated the idea of killing an animal. He couldn't stand the blood. So that's, that's what they, they thought of him. You know, just a. Not a hunter, not a hunter. Now he was a star athlete apparently was like a. Like all county, like a big deal. But dropped out of Ponet High School or Poinet High School. Well, this is. You're going to drop out or get kicked out for this after he got in trouble for punching the assistant principal. Well, do you got to expect that you're not coming back to school on Monday? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's very little that you get to justify that. You have to be punched first.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Is he trying to finger you outside of that? That's really the only thing. The only time it's okay. So he was transferred. Transferred or I should say dropped out and re enrolled in Portage High School to finish his education in Wisconsin. Still in Wisconsin still. And this is just a small acorn of a very large batshit tree that we'll call it, or to use the scientific term cuckoo crazy would be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I believe I do love cuckoo clock.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, he's nuts is what the best way to put it. He's fucking crazy as a loon, this guy. Here's something his mother said. Quote, looking back, I remember the danger signs. But I then associated his behavior with typical teenager weirdness.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

She said after all this was the early 1970s, which. Yeah, kids were doing all sorts of crazy shit. Mental illness was not publicized or admitted to again. Also true. If someone went to a psychiatrist, they go, what happened? Did you snap? Did you Kinda.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Did you just drive your car into a nursery school? Like what did you do? Like that's crazy. People really thought that. She said, I told myself that Scott was just a unique person. He's not crazy, he's just interesting is what she said. Basically she said there were no support groups to contact that I know of where one could Go to for advice, probably. Especially in small town northern Wisconsin. I would assume that would also be part of it. Psychiatry was eyed with suspicion. I now understand what I didn't want to see then. There was something dreadfully wrong with Scott. That is an understatement of all understatements here. 1976, at the age of 18, he joined the Navy. Let's give this guy access to weaponry. That's good. Wow. I don't even know how the hell you get into the Navy being this crazy. How'd you not punch the guy interviewing you? Yeah, the doctor giving you the physical, you know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

He received an early honorable discharge. He told his parents it was due to him having arthritis in his hands, but he never had arthritis in his hands. So they think it was psychological, that he was psychologically. And he didn't want to say because he was embarrassed, but they think he was psychologically discharged honorably. Just. Yeah, he tried, but he's too crazy, so we're kicking him out now. His parents ended up selling their dairy farm because that's where they. He grew up near Poynette and then moved to Fredericksburg, Texas.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

And he ended up joining them and meeting a woman and getting married. So he ends up going with them down to Texas and meets a woman named Janie Luckenbach.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Luckenbach, Texas.

[James Petregallo]

I have no idea. Luckenbach. However, he was. L U C K E N B A C H. Yeah, I don't know. So he marries her. He's gonna have three kids with this woman too. By the way, an unstable man. Let's have three kids. Not two, not one. Three. In 1981, he is involuntarily committed to the Kerrville State Hospital in Texas. He's diagnosed as paranoid after being very hostile to his family. Apparently he was being real weird with everybody. He was getting thinking people were after him, his own family was coming for him, things like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just unhinged, huh?

[James Petregallo]

They gave him a little break. Now, 1982, his family moves back to Wisconsin, but he stays in Texas because he's got a wife and started having kids and everything else. And he's got a relationship with some psychiatrists and everything else. So. Gonna stay there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got some friends, got some mechanics.

[James Petregallo]

Brain mechanics down here. Yeah, why not? I got some people tinkering on the old. The old brain there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. When you got a specific car and you got a guy that knows how to work on it, you don't leave.

[James Petregallo]

You don't move.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Far from it.

[James Petregallo]

You don't leave. No. So his Wife is terrified of him. By the time their third child is born in about 1986. Basically here she ends up she's going to file for divorce here pretty soon because this is a lot. But in her petition for divorce, she says that he'd been threatening her and become obsessed with the idea that the devil lived in their house. Not that it was her or the kids, but that the devil was in a separate entity, was living in their house. Yeah, he's in the house. She said he claims he saw the devil on the wall and cut the devil with a knife and that blood had run out of him. That's what he said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And wounded him.

[James Petregallo]

He's stabbing the wall like Winona Ryder in Stranger Things. Trying to fucking get to the Upside Down.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But got him.

[James Petregallo]

But got him, apparently, is what he thought or said, which is now he's pissed. Yeah, now the devil's mad. I got him, but I don't think I killed him. Now think about how crazy. Let's stack the levels of crazy. The devil lives in the house. Okay? That's entry level crazy. That's level one of crazy. I see the devil on the wall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I seen him. That's a different level.

[James Petregallo]

That's level two. Then he's not only here and he's not only on the wall. But I interacted with him and. And stabbed him and devil blood came out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hand to hand combat. I got him.

[James Petregallo]

That is the third.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's outrageous.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That is outrageous. I mean, think about where your mind has to be for that. You've gone completely outside of what is reasonable.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ooh, Daddy. What happened?

[James Petregallo]

What happened? So he's admitted to the Starlight Village Hospital in Texas here, Obviously diagnosed with schizophrenia. Now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, yeah, that leads to it.

[James Petregallo]

That's there. He apparently had a history by now of speaking incoherently out of nowhere, saying crazy shit, and also serious paranoia. So the wife said he absolutely became obsessed with the notion that the devil lived in the house. He took all the family furniture. And this is what made me put this aside for nine years and save it like a wonderful. Now you remember this part? Now you remember this part? Cause it's so crazy. You went, what? You turned away from the road and were like, are you kidding me? He was convinced that the devil lived inside his furniture. So he took all the family's furniture from the living room. Couch, coffee tables, entertainment center, everything, and buried it in the backyard, all outside. And buried it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like underground.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, underground. And buried it, like the way it was set up in the living room, too. Like he was like, there set. Like, if you found, like, the remains of Pompeii or something where they're like. They were sitting there having dinner and it just. That's what happened here. Done. Still life archaeologists, years in the future, they're gonna go. There must have been a. Like a civilization landslide or something that came on in these people's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's an Ashley sofa under that.

[James Petregallo]

It's real weird. Nice IKEA coffee table. They got a Wayfair entertainment center. It ain't bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's not bad stuff.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what's crazy. He also then nailed the curtains in the house shut. Didn't tape the. Nailed their curtains.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nailed them.

[James Petregallo]

Nailed curtains to the wall. So, quote, that the neighbors would not film him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, through the windows. Happening.

[James Petregallo]

And you need to nail them shut, otherwise they'll obviously blow open. So he's also having hallucinations about the devil seeing blood come out of the walls. She would catch him. The wife would catch him just washing the walls. And she's like, what are you doing? He's like, washing the devil blood off. I got him again, got him again. Started speaking Texas German. Shit got weird. Real weird. So for the rest of 1986, he's transferred to the Kerrville Hospital again, where he started back in 81. Diagnosed with, like I said, schizophrenia. Then he's transferred to the Waco Veterans Administration Hospital. I was gonna say he was in the Navy and honorably discharged, so he should have access to veterans services, I would think. He's diagnosed with schizophrenia there as well and given antipsychotic medications. There we go. Now we're in business. He ends up moving back to Wisconsin in 1986. At the end of it. Really? Yeah. He's. I don't know if his wife calls. Called his parents and was like, I don't know what you did to handle him, but I can't handle him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He got along for at least three times, you know what I mean, For a second to be able to make three kids. But what the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

It's crazy. His mother said our plan was to get Scott the help he needed in the more progressive state of Wisconsin. Texas had a bad reputation concerning its treatment of the mentally ill. And it still does, by the way. We'll talk about it for a second. I might as well just talk about it now. But Texas has, like. They spend like, a third of what the average state spends in mental health services. Wow. Yeah. They don't. Yeah. If you're crazy in Texas, good luck. They got a prison for you. That's what they do. Yeah. So back in the hospital, he moved back to Wisconsin. He's admitted to the TOMA Veterans Hospital, which I believe we did a Tomah, Wisconsin episode, if I'm not mistaken, where he's diagnosed with. I'm gonna get you. Got your guess, Jimmy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ah. Schizophrenia.

[James Petregallo]

Schizophrenia. Seems like multiple hospitals come up with the same diagnosis. He might be schizophrenia, might be schizophrenic. Yeah. He's then hospitalized in the Northern Pines Unified Services center, where he's diagnosed with depression and suicidal ideation as well as schizophrenia.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

So he's transferred then to the Cumberland Memorial Hospital and diagnosed with D. Depression, Brain dysfunction. I don't know if that's organic or caused by something else. Delusions, auditory hallucinations, and homicidal ideation toward his family.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is real bad.

[James Petregallo]

This is bad stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's dangerous.

[James Petregallo]

This is real true crazy. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like, this is real life. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Something is wrong. Organic issues, you know?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dare I say unfixable, too. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Sometimes, though, these people, if they're on the right medications, can be very fine and very functional. They just need to get their shit balanced out. There's plenty of people who have terrible mental illness that's very well helped by.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Medications, but have to be willing to.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He seems to be willing. He's going to hospital after hospital, try to fix it, but.

[James Petregallo]

And his family's trying to help him, and he seems. But he's genuinely pretty crazy. So somewhere in all this, his wife files for divorce. Shockingly, when the divorce came through, he became even more unstable.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

And then moved back to Texas.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if his family was like, okay, at least he's out of our hands. Or if they're like, holy shit scared now that he's going back. When he gets back to Texas, pretty much immediately, he's admitted to the Starlight Village Hospital, again and again diagnosed with schizophrenia, transferred to the Kerrville State Hospital. This is becoming a pattern. Same thing. And diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, which is a combination of schizophrenia and manic depression. Bipolar. So that seems to be where we're at with him. So in 1989. And I'm gonna tell everyone out there right now, I know, listen, it's hard out there for everybody, but if you can't. If you just really want a relationship and can't find one, you are not looking hard enough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's on you.

[James Petregallo]

You're not. It's on you. He gets married again in 1989.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, honestly, if this guy can find a wife. What is your excuse?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What are you doing?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, what's your excuse, man? Are you stabbing the walls and then cleaning the devil blood off of him? Burying the furniture in the yard? No. You're a catch. Get out there. Have some confidence in yourself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Have you wounded Satan? No.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. No. All right. Do you speak Texas German? No. All right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think you're doing all right.

[James Petregallo]

You're doing fine. So 1989, he marries Sonia Alvarado. Now they have a daughter that year as well. So I don't know if he married her because she got pregnant or what the deal was, but they have a daughter the same year they get married in 1989. So again, now he's got four. Four kids as well. Wow. Four people call Scott dad. That's crazy. 1990, next year, involuntarily committed to the Kerrville Hospital due to homicidal behavior which was threatening to kill his wife, their new baby, his father in law, his wife's father, and himself when he's finished. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cause I'm not. I'm not gonna pay for this.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, back in the hospital he goes. By this time he was telling the doctors that he had genuinely come to believe that there was a plot against him put forth by the entire citizenry of Fredericksburg. They had had it with him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The whole town is after me.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said that's where his wife and his parents in law and all those, they all live there. And the whole town is plotting like, I'll walk down the street, I'll see people talking. They're obviously plotting against me. Yeah, that's some serious paranoia. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show here to tell you about the best holiday gift you can get. An aura frame.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oraframes.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

This can help keep you connected and keep your family connected. If you're like me. My family lives kind of all over the place. And, you know, there's people and friends and family and all that kind of thing. This can keep you connected with all the pictures from everybody that can come into it. It's perfect. And that's why it is our favorite gift to give in the holidays. And I give this to all of my relatives. Everybody loves it. It's prominently displayed. Everybody has it right in their kitchen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So you're sitting around talking and a thing will come up. I remember when grandpa was alive and this was going. It's so cool. And it really is you get pictures of the kids. You know, I get my nephews on mine. I get to see. It's really, really cool. And you want to do that. You want to be able to share your life and be able to have other people share their lives. Even if it's a long distance thing or a big event or something like that. It's a great way to stay connected. And it's awesome because you can personalize the gift first of all too. You can add a message to it before it arrives. You can share photos and videos effortlessly too, straight from your phone all year long. The gift box that comes in, it's a premium gift box. No price tag or anything like that. That is made to be the gift and it is really, really great. Honestly, the best gift you can give. I've never seen anyone not love this thing. And you are going to love it too. For a limited time, visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's best selling Carver mat. Frames named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code Smalltown murder at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code small town murder. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year. So order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And now back to the show.

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[James Petregallo]

Sonia, she tried, man. She tried. They moved at least two times due to his craziness, angering the neighbors and having all the neighbors hate them. So she was like, we'll move, move multiple times. She's really trying to make this work, man. 1992, admitted to the Kerrville Hospital again diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder again. This is again for threatening to kill his family. Records reveal from this time that Scott had a series of different personalities now and aspects of his own personality that he gave full on names to. Oh, last names and everything. I mean he has got characters in there now, multiple of them. So this is. You've seen this show as a cast. A full cast, dude. A full cast. Damn it. There's like lighting guys and grips. The best boy grip is in there. It's got everything. So August of 1992, Scott and Sonya separate, which wow. And by the way, in addition to his mental illness and behavior that's threatening everybody, he's also started drinking heavily as well. Let's add booze to this. And not taking his medication.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's gonna try. Oh, substitute.

[James Petregallo]

Nice. I don't know if drinking tries to. He's trying to quiet the voices because a lot of. I've heard that a lot. People who are paranoid, schizophrenic and multiple personalities, they will drink to try to quiet the voices. And sometimes it works and sometimes it amplifies them. So you never know. So Sonya takes their three year old daughter and goes to stay with her parents for a bit here. Okay. Her parents are Joe Alvarado, who was born November 23, 1936, and Amanda Alvarado, maiden named Carrion. She's born April 30, 1936. They've been married since 1958. They apparently. I don't know if it's. They apparently had a child named Gloria, born in 1954, before they were married, who died in 1984. And then they had another daughter named Martha, who died in 1977 at the age of 17.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they have Sonia left as their daughter and now she's going out with this guy. So, okay. September 1, 1992, Sonia comes home from work to her house, to Scott's house and everything and found Scott just mumbling to himself, just mumbling, which is not a good sign. They started to fight. He went and grabbed a rifle and smashed her in the face with the butt of the rifle. So she then took the daughter left and went right to the police station or the court or something and got a restraining order against him immediately and moved in with her parents, which. All of the correct things to do there. Yeah, what else can you do? You know what I mean? So she obtained a protective order to prevent him from contacting her or the child or her family. Friends of the Alvarados here said that the couple, the parents here, Joe and Amanda, had been afraid of him. So one of the friends said for a full week, Joe was worried about this man. He had already talked to the police about it. So they were. This was a church. A person that went to church with them and he was talking. He's got my son in law. I'm scared of him. So September 8, 1982. Here we go. Scott has got some stuff he wants to get accomplished today. First off is shaving his head completely bald.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I get it.

[James Petregallo]

He's got. Well, he's got hair. He just decides to go to the skin today, which nowadays people do all the time. In 1992, that was considered aberrant behavior to just shave your head to the skin. You were either a Nazi or a crazy person. One of the two. Or from the future. Those are the only three options. There was no.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're really going through something right now.

[James Petregallo]

You're going through something. Yeah. So September 8th, 1992. Shaves his head. Then he goes in the garage and saws off a shotgun. Oh, make that nice and short and easy to carry.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then he dresses up in full military fatigues, gets in the car with the shotgun and a rifle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And drives to the Alvarado home. Okay. Drives to Joe and Amanda Alvarado, 55, 56 years old. Here. Now, obviously, Sonia's been staying here for at least a whole week. She stayed for a couple weeks, tried to go back. He was mumbling, hit her with the rifle. Now she's been back here for a week now, through the back sliding glass door. She just heard glass shatter coming from the back sliding glass door. She immediately knew what it was. Sonia, she heard the glass shatter of the door. She said, fuck, Scott's here and he's coming for me. So she ran out of the house immediately, but he caught up with her and hit her on the right side of the face with the butt of the deer rifle. Bam. Nails her then. Wow. So she, to get away from him from outside, crawled back into the house after being hit with the rifle. So then Scott corners her in a small hallway area, which is about 6 by 8ft. So she is in deep shit at that point. Here comes Joe and Amanda. They're in the mix obviously here too. And they're in this. Everyone's in the small hallway. He just takes his.30 06 deer rifle and shoots Joe and then shoots Amanda with his rifle. Boom. And boom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Instead of the shotgun, instead of the.

[James Petregallo]

Shoddy, which close quarters, the sawed off is the weapon. Yeah. But he's pretty good shot. Doesn't like hunting. But one shot each, right through the head, these two kills them both. Yeah. Sonya said, I could feel the vibration of the gunshots on the floor. It was so loud. Yeah. Small hallway too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So.30 caliber weapon. That's tough.

[James Petregallo]

He then turns it to her, to Sonya, and pulls the trigger, but it jammed. And he's fucking with it, trying to get it to work and it won't work. And he's trying to shoot her. She said, I believe I'm alive today by the grace of God. Yeah. So apparently also the child is right there. The three year old has watched seeing all this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sweet Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

When you bust open A sliding glass door. Everyone's up in the house at that point. Everyone's awake. You know that's happening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a big plate glass window.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, either. Either you're in a lot of trouble or stone cold Steve Austin just got here, one of the two. But you got problems either way. So anyway, he then, because the gun won't work, he just grabs Sonia and the three year old and says, you're coming with me. So he takes them at gunpoint and puts them in the car and drives about three miles west of Fredericksburg to a bunk house that he knew about, that he had some stuff in that he was like crashing at. It was like his hideaway pad. I don't know what's going on. So he brings them in there. There is a standoff. The cops are aware of the situation because of the gunshots. People call the cops, they end up going there. He says, I'm not coming out and you want me, we're gonna shoot it out. Basically, that's what's going on. I got my wife, I got my daughter, and we're all gonna die today if that's what's gonna happen here, or you're going to go away. This lasts for nine hours. Nine hours standoff, nine hours. And then he releases the wife and daughter. He tells them, you guys can go. Lets them, they run out of the house. Then he dresses up in his best suit coat and tie and everything and goes out and turn and surrenders. But he's wearing his best suit with a cleanly shaved head, so he looks super nuts at this point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Real clean cut, real clean.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, real clean. One of the troopers said, I don't think the officers had any problem convincing him to surrender. I think he already had made up his mind before they got there that eventually he would surrender. One of the sheriffs, this guy's kind of a dick. We'll find out later. Gillespie County Sheriff Milton Young or John J U N J G Jung Young, either one. He said that Scott had been treated for mental problems before at the VA hospital. He said, yeah, guy shaved his head and all that. He said, quote, he's a very strange man. No shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, really, obviously.

[James Petregallo]

They also said this was the first homicide in Fredericksburg in more than 20 years. Oh, wow, it's been a while. Yeah. Now, they also said, we know him. Officers describe him as someone who's been in legal trouble several times for alcohol related problems, ones that we couldn't find in the newspaper because they were small. They called him an unemployed former Navy man who's on medication and is prone to violent outbursts when his medication is not taken exactly properly. He apparently has several medications. They all have to be taken in a very specific way. And if he doesn't do it because he's loopy, he goes nuts. So it's sad. I mean, that's real mental illness. I mean, it really is. So one of their friends, the Alvarado's friends, when found out that she was. That they were killed, started talking about them, said Mrs. Alvarado had been suffering from cancer and was undergoing chemo. And she said Joe Alvarado enjoyed working in the yard and around the house so that he could stay close to his wife. He also worked at a stone quarry. Joe Alvarado there and said he was just a good man. He was my best friend. The woman said. So there you go. Now they bring Scott in, he gives a full confession.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

He goes, yeah, I did it. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I had them in there. I got all the guns. I mean, pretty obvious what I did, you know, the devil and all and blah, blah, blah, sure. But he said it was me, but it really wasn't me. See, that's the thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The devil got in.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. It was a very specific person with a first and last name. It was Sarge Iron Horse. That's who did it. Oh, wow. Which sounds like a great gay porn name, by the way. Sarge Iron Horse. You are going to the top of the charts with that one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes. A guy named Sarge, he does bad shit. He's seen some shit in the past.

[James Petregallo]

And you don't to look at a baby and name it Sarge. You got to know it's some shit going on about Sarge Iron Horse did it. Is the story like alrighty now. Sonia warned them, by the way. Sonia recalled a number of incidents prior to the crime in which she alleged that the police had failed to act on the family's concerns about the threat he posed. She recalled that after one incident only weeks before the killing of her parents, she said, my mother and I begged the police to take the rifles. Scott had his deer rifle, the.30 06 he used to kill my parents, the other shotgun at my parents house, even though the police were told to take the guns, they did not. The court told them to, but they didn't follow it through. She said Scott had made threats against my parents. She said several occasions they responded to domestic violence calls and did nothing to reprimand Scott because she claims they either feared him or they were casually Acquainted with him. Cause he's been there a long time. And they were like, oh, he's crazy, but harmless is how they looked at him. You know, he's not gonna do nothing. The police chief said that he couldn't recall any particular incident that was handled incorrectly. And said the police, knowing Scott was not a factor in how the domestic calls were handled. Yeah, right. He said, we dealt with Scott on several occasions, adding that she has also made these allegations on previous occasions. Well, she sounds right. At this point. He just killed her whole family. She said the police department and sheriff's department tried to keep all the facts about the events from the media in an attempt to protect the image of the community, not to protect her privacy. She said their main concern was upholding the image of Fredericksburg as a nice tourist town. That's it. That's all I gave a fuck about. Well, yeah, that's what this place is. She was also ignored. She says on the day of the crime, when she was taken away from the being held hostage, she was injured and traumatized and not provided any medical attention or counseling. She said she just made a statement to the police and they were like, bye. She said that the denial of immediate medical attention by sheriff's deputies caused her to be denied funds from the Victims of Crime program as well, because they didn't have. So. She said she was barefoot when she was kidnapped and was not given shoes or even a pair of socks to wear by the law enforcement officers at the scene. She was questioned for nearly seven hours about the day's events without any medical attention or anything. Said she was. The county sheriff, this Milton Jung, said she was not held against her will. She could have gone at any time. Well, maybe she's trying to be helpful. You're telling her that she needs to tell you everything and it'll be helpful. She never requested medical care, but she said this type of experience is just one of several with local law enforcement agencies that were handled carelessly. She said. About a week later, when my head and memory became more clear, I told the DA that I wanted to add more events as they occurred. He told me it was best to just leave things as they were and they would stick to the original statement given. Which is not how you do things, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You gotta get the whole story.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, especially a woman who's been hit with a deer rifle an hour before you talk to her. I told them there were more things I wanted to add, but the DA told me it wasn't important. He wanted to stay with the first statement, too many mistakes. I feel this was wrong of him. I feel now that I was used on the stand so that I would cover up for law enforcement mistakes. And the sheriff knowing of Scott's mental illness for years, not to mention all the other reports that were not written out. So Scott's evaluated in jail. Records indicate that he's being prescribed antipsychotic medications for his symptoms. So he stays on those, apparently for a while. Later on, he'll discontinue the medication after what he claimed was a religious experience that he had on it. They were like, let's take those away from you. Now he's got a court appointed attorney, this poor bastard. By the way, when I tell you this, what goes on in this trial.

[Jimmy Wissman]

His responsibility is poor guy.

[James Petregallo]

He said, quote, Scott was unable to cooperate with his attorneys or assist them in any way. He said, I have never had a client who did not try to cooperate, who just separated themselves to where they weren't with us anymore. I never had a meaningful conversation with Scott regarding the status of the case, the facts of the case, or any issue involved. Over a period of two and a half years. I never saw a change in Scott's demeanor and conversation. His talk was always bizarre. He was never able to complete a rational and meaningful conversation with his attorneys. Which is one of the things that you go on, if they're competent to stand trial, is can they assist in the defense of their case or not? If their lawyers are like, I don't know, I ask him questions, he blows bubbles at me. What am I supposed to do here? What do you do if you're that lawyer? You're fucked. So summer of 93, the next year, he's still in jail awaiting trial and being evaluated and medicated and everything. His younger sister visits him and she recalls that he was, quote, very paranoid and very hyper and was making many irrational and bizarre statements. And she claimed that. Remember that conspiracy in Fredericksburg that's against him?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

His lawyers are also part of a conspiracy against him as well, Possibly connected to all the Fredericksburg people as well. So July 1994, he has a competency hearing. Apparently there is a jury for this competency hearing, which I didn't know that was a thing. But the competency hearing is declared a mistrial after the jury is unable to reach a verdict. So September 9, they call that a mistrial. They call that a mistrial of the hearing. Okay, whatever. Anytime a jury can't reach a verdict, it's a call to mistrial. Whether it's a trial or not. September 1994, second competency hearing. His lawyer testified that in the previous two years, he has had no useful communication with Scott because of Scott's delusional thinking. A psychiatrist for the defense concluded that Scott was not competent to stand trial. A psychiatrist for the prosecution agreed with the diagnosis of schizophrenia and that Scott's delusional thinking could interfere with his communications with legal counsel, particularly under the situations of stress such as a courtroom. So that's only going to exacerbate the symptoms. However, he said, even with all that said, I think he's competent to stand trial even though he can't assist in his defense, and he's completely delusional and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He thinks everybody's out to get him.

[James Petregallo]

I think he's fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And the jury said competent. Yeah, no problem. So now he's competent, and he wants to be his own attorney.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, I.

[James Petregallo]

You want to have a party? I'm so competent. I'm a lawyer now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, me and. Me and Sarge are. We got this.

[James Petregallo]

Sarge. Iron Horse is going to cover this case. So that is. Think about that. You're letting this man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's too much.

[James Petregallo]

It's gonna be a circus. I mean, and it is. Wait till you hear this. So according to what his sister said. His sister said he had a delusion that only an insane person could prove insanity. That's his life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

Only an insane person can prove insanity. See, you know how that goes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's insane.

[James Petregallo]

That is what an insane person says. See? And she went, you're right. You just proved it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Sold. His fears of the attorneys were irrational. And due to his paranoid delusions, I believe that his decision to represent himself was totally irrational. This decision was because of his mental illness. She also had a friend who was like a crime reporter for a TV station and had that friend who knows about the justice system try to tell him, this is a bad idea. And he was like, you're out of your mind. You don't know what you're talking about. So the judge found that he had voluntarily and knowingly waived his right to counsel and allowed him to be his own lawyer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fucking unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Leading up to the trial, he constantly sent mail to his sister and family in Wisconsin. She said his writings were completely irrational. He wrote many strange things that did not make sense. This is. While this is going on. She said that he called her his legal assistant, and he mailed all his papers, documents, and records for the trial because he was afraid to keep them in his cell because he thought the guards were Looking at his work and would tell them, everybody's after me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She said, quote, I can't understand how he was supposed to get ready for his trial when his papers were in Wisconsin. So she mailed the boxes of materials back to him for the trial. But, quote, the jury selection was over before the boxes arrived. So he did not use them. So he doesn't even have the materials for the trial. He has no idea what's going on. None of the reports, nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck. Is going on.

[James Petregallo]

His standby counsel. Because he's got a standby council. It's appointed. Said when the trial began, Scott did not have his files. The material that had been prepared was not available. Scott's family brought the files back to Texas, but Scott never used the materials. I do not think that Scott had a rational understanding of the importance of that information. Scott was all the discovery, everything. Scott was filing motions and subpoenas with rambling statements and bizarre artwork. He'd draw a picture. This is also what I want.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

I also want a cat with dragon wings. If you could make that for me. I'd like this and that. I'd like to pass this motion and make this reality.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I need a signed Emmett Smith helmet with full of ice cream.

[James Petregallo]

Rocky Road full of ice cream. And I want my dragon cat to. Instead of fire coming out of its mouth, it's Captain Crunch. That's what I want.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Perfect fire comes out of his asshole.

[James Petregallo]

Everybody knows that. Yeah, everyone knows that. He also. Duh. He also. He has 200 plus subpoenas he filed. The lawyer said, I have copies of the 200 plus subpoenas he filed. Scott wanted to subpoena. Jesus Christ. JFK actors and actresses. People who have died that have nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

To do with this.

[James Petregallo]

I know Ann Bancroft was one of the people he tried to subpoena who I think was dead at that point. Yeah. In his pretrial motions, including to. He filed several Scott does including to disqualify the judge for a change of venue. His central argument being that he couldn't get a fair trial because the people of Fredericksburg have been plotting against him for years. So obviously the whole jury, they're all going to be in on it. A psychiatrist who reviewed the records. A 10 page letter that Panetti sent the trial judge. The psychiatrist said at this time contained numerous biblical passages. Just idiosyncratic expressions. Flight of ideas meaning sudden changes in his thought processes, loose associations, meaning communication that was not coherently connected, connected together and incoherent and illogical thought processes. Like a judge should have got that and said this person can't stand trial. They're insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's too much.

[James Petregallo]

Instead, they do do him this favor of suppressing his confession. They suppress his confession here for some reason. I don't know what the reason is. And the judge also granted his change of venue motion and set the trial for Bandera. That's where it'll be happening.

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[James Petregallo]

Oh hey. Welcome to gift wrapping. Whoa. Soy saldana.

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[James Petregallo]

Wow, iPhone 17s.

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[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

Sounds like my family drama.

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big.

[James Petregallo]

Damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation at rubrik.com that's R U-B-R-I-K.com the prosecutor said they're going to delay, they're going to appeal the suppression of the confession. It's not enough that you got a crazy person representing himself. You need to stack the deck more. And that delays the trial. So finally, August through September 95 is the trial. It begins with jury selection in late August. And Scott's sister arrives in Texas for the trial and visited him in the jail. And she said, quote, I had never seen Scott so sick. I got to visit with him in his cell since I was his so called legal assistant. Maybe that's why he did that. Scott was acting all strung out and weird. He started screaming at the guards and acting like a madman. Scott was laying on the floor so he could scream under the door at the guards. I was scared. I had never seen Scott act so crazy. So now he's the craziest he's ever been. So he's set to represent himself in a murder trial.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

His appointed standby counsel here said that his attempts to help Scott were impossible due to his mental illness. He said Scott did not have a factual and rational understanding of the Capitol murder proceedings. Scott was not able to assist me and I was not able to assist him due to his mental illness. Scott was paranoid of a big conspiracy that everyone was out to get him. He had to represent himself to prove insanity. Scott was not on any psychotropic medication. During the trial, Scott did not use the information I prepared for him. I tried to outline the theory of the defense, but Scott was only interested in his own show. At a meeting during the jury selection, I advised Scott on several important issues. This was all way above Scott's head. It did not appear to make any sense to him. Every time I tried to talk about jury selection or discuss any of the items or things I brought him, he. He instantly changed the subject until he eventually ran out of time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So during the trial, he pleads not guilty by reason of insanity.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

This should be easy, right? Oh, my God. Okay, now normally just his mental stuff is gonna cause a spectacle in the trial. He goes even harder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

He walks into the courtroom and this is what he wears every day. Described as a quote, 1920s cowboy style outfit. He showed up in like a completely like garish, like 1930s movie cowboy outfit. He showed up in a giant 10 gallon hat, a huge bandana, boots with stirrup, weird boots. They're described as too. Not just regular boots, weird boots that the pants were tucked into too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, nice stirrups with boots on the outside.

[James Petregallo]

He had, I believe it was A purple. He wore purple shirts with green ties.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, you can't do that.

[James Petregallo]

He's dressed like a circus clown. Cowboy. Yeah, he's dressed like a fucking lunatic.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like the Joker as a cowboy.

[James Petregallo]

And affected from a newspaper. Affected the mannerisms and accent of a John Wayne movie character.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Like over the top. So he's like, let me tell y' all little ladies and cusses. A little something there. I got a little something to tell you about this craziness. Now that mental illness will sneak on up on you kind of like a Texas tornado, if you know what I mean. They just pop up out of nowhere now, you know what I'm talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like a rabid prayer dog.

[James Petregallo]

I tell you what, when you're out there on the ranch with the doggies, it's a little something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petregallo]

This is crazy. This is crazy. So here's some different doctors observations of him during the trial, okay? Different psychologists. Quote, in my opinion, Scott was not competent to stand trial because he was unable to assist himself in his own defense and didn't have a factual and rational understanding of the proceedings. There's no doubt in my mind that he's mentally ill and. And he was incompetent to stand trial. Here's another thing. My main impression was, why was the judge allowing this crazy man to defend himself? I thought to myself, my God, how in the world can our legal system allow an insane man to defend himself? How can this be just. I not only thought that Scott was incompetent, but I thought. But that it was not moral to have him stand trial. It was terribly wrong. I did not know that our legal system would allow an insane man to represent himself in his own trial. Here's another one. There's no question in my mind that Scott was incompetent at his trial. Scott's questions and conduct were bizarre and represented a break from reality. His conduct was bizarre in part due to his unusual dress, which I can only call a costume. Scott was more concerned with his dress and appearance than the reality of his Capitol murder trial. The courtroom had an atmosphere of a circus. Here's another. At the trial, Scott dressed in 1920s era cowboy style. It looked idiotic. He wore a large hat and a huge bandana. He wore weird boots with stirrups. The pants were tucked in at the calf. I had a feeling that Scott had no perception of how he was coming across. He was totally unable to see the effect. His questions were completely without thought. They were irrelevant. I felt like Scott was digging his own grave. The Trial was a joke. It was a big fiasco. And two more here. When I watched Scott in court, he was very bizarre. When I saw him on the first day of the trial, I thought the judge should stop the trial and commit him to a hospital. Scott was not competent to stand trial. My wife had written the judge a letter, but it didn't seem to make any difference. I wanted to tell the judge to stop the trial because, oh, this is from his mother. My son was sick and incompetent. Like, he's obviously nuts, clearly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, got a problem.

[James Petregallo]

And his sister said, I think the justice system or the justice broke down in my brother's trial. It was not fair to let a mentally ill man be his own attorney when he didn't know what he was doing. I am sorry to say the trial was a farce. It was a circus like atmosphere. I. I never expected justice to allow this. Even Sonia, whose parents were murdered, said that she thought the trial was a big joke and a circus and that there was lots the jury did not know about Scott and his mental illness. Even she was like, what are we doing? The actual trial? Yeah. Purple and green cowboy shirts. He wore leather chaps, for fuck's sake.

[Jimmy Wissman]

For fuck's sake.

[James Petregallo]

He didn't wear like a suit and tie and a cowboy hat and boots like a Texas lawyer. He dressed like it from a costume. Anyway, one person said, this is his lawyer. Sorry. Mr. Panetti's direct examination testimony essentially began with his birth. He discussed a near drowning episode, falling off a horse and messing in his pants when he was a child. He later described his school in Wisconsin, the carpeting there, how he wanted to look up his teacher skirt. This is great. What do you. Yeah, we all get it, but you don't tell the jury that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't. Don't admit it, man.

[James Petregallo]

At one point, he showed the jury a tattoo on his arm, a wounded sunbird, and went into excessive detail about it. After the court redirected him, Mr. Panetti talked at length about his high school sweetheart in a loosely connected manner. The judge redirected him for a second time to relevant evidence. After Mr. Panetti discussed bull riding, high school interactions, and that his father looked like Colonel Sanders, the court redirected him again to the relevance of the guilt innocence phase of the trial. Despite continued redirection, Mr. Panetti described working on his father's ranch in Texas. The District Attorney even asked the court to instruct Mr. Panetti to talk about his guilt or innocence and not about his life story. One of the doctors who Attended the trial as a witness said, I witnessed a number of incidents where the inappropriate use of language and actions show that Scott was mentally ill and incompetent. And Scott literally enjoyed the spectacle of the courtroom where he was the center of attention. Scott enjoyed the trial since he was getting attention and was being allowed to act like an attorney. Hey, I get to dress up like a cowboy and ask people questions.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Isn't this fun?

[James Petregallo]

Hey. Scott was acting out a role of an attorney as a facet of the mental illness, not a rational decision to represent himself at trial. Scott was acting as his own attorney from his paranoid fear that his attorneys were out to get him. He gave a rambling presentation that showed he could not think clearly nor understand the information that was important to his trial. The trial gave Scott the opportunity to get the attention that a paranoid person so desperately needs. Scott needed to represent himself out of the delusion that he alone could defend himself. He wanted recognition as an attorney and got the judge to allow him center stage. The mental illness caused him to fail to recognize the importance of the jury. In his mind, the jury was not important. What was important to Scott was the recognition of the judge, the da, the witnesses, and the public that Scott was an attorney in the courtroom. So one witness, he asked this question here. We subpoenaed Dr. Hal. I mean, I didn't want to go subpoena crazy and I just turned the Pope loose and jfk, and I never subpoenaed them. But Jesus Christ, he didn't need a subpoena. He's right here with me. And we'll get into that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We'll get there, huh? Give me some time.

[James Petregallo]

He turned the Pope loose. What the fuck are you talking about? I don't need him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't need him. He's busy.

[James Petregallo]

He also said during one question, he called Jesus. He said Jesus Christ was sharing a cell with him. He said he had a cellmate and it was Jesus Christ, but he was serious. And it wasn't a guy named Jesus because it is Texas. He called 43 witnesses over eight days, subpoenaed John Kennedy, subpoenaed Jesus Christ. In the end, he did need to subpoena him. He's busy. Busy guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm tired of all the miracles. You are bound to be here.

[James Petregallo]

I get that. Teach a man to fish, el eat for a lifetime and all that kind of shit. But you're also time blind. You're real bad with times and dates. At one point, he put his hand on the jury box like he was shooting. He did Finger guns at the jury and said, boom, boom, boom with a cowboy outfit on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

You can't do that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Scott's mom on the stand. He said, mom, I slept good and I had a dream and woke up real confused. And the relevance of my guilt or innocence, Is there anything that has to do now? I flat ironed you yesterday. You sort of expected I would call you, but you didn't expect it this morning. That's what he said. To a flat. I flat ironed you that none of this makes any sense.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nope.

[James Petregallo]

The judge said, you need to ask a question, Mr. Panetti. And he said, talk about my treatment, Mom. Before, after, and during the duration of my treatment that's directly relevant to my guilt or innocence as charged. Mom. The judge says, Mr. Panetti ask a specific question. I don't want a general question. Yeah. Scott says I'm going to have to ask you a couple of questions that we didn't ask before and it's safe to ask Mom. Well, there's things I should have said or didn't say or didn't say and should have said. The judge said, Mr. Panetti ask a question. Then he testifies himself. He said the day of the crime, he'd been under the control of Sarge Iron Horse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Sarge did Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He's back. Yeah. He also said that the demons were cackling at him during his crime. This is his quote. Sarge woke up, cut off Scott's hair. Sarge suited up. Shells, canteen, pouch, 30, 06. Tropical hat. Tropical top. Bunkhouse. Fast. Haircut fast. Suited up fast. Boom. Really fast. Fast. Haircut, web gear, top brush, hat, boots. Out the door in the jeep. Driving wife, the bridge. Why is it taking so long? In front of Joe and Amanda's house, Sarge, Everything fast, everything fast. He sounds like English isn't his first language. He's losing connector words. Everything fast. Everything slow. Tapped on the window. Shattered window. Sonya screams. Runs. Follow her. She runs out. Out the front. Knife. Birdie. Birdie. That's Scott. And that's their daughter. Where's Birdie? Pick her up. She's in bed. Scott, What? Scott, what did you see? Sarge do fall. Sonya, Joe, Amanda, kitchen. Joe, bayonet. Not attacking. Sarge not afraid. Not threatened. Sarge not angry, not mad. Sarge boom boom. Sarge boom, boom, boom. Sarge boom boom. Sarge is gone. No more Sarge. Sonya and Birdie. Birdie and Sonya, Joe, Amanda, lying in kitchen. Here. There. Blood. No. Leave Scott. Remember exactly what Scott did. Shot the lock. Walked in the Kitchen. Sonia, where's Birdie? Sonya? Here. Joe. Bayonet door. Amanda. Boom, boom, boom. Blood demons. Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, Lord. Oh, you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's what he said.

[James Petregallo]

He said that on the stand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Those are words.

[James Petregallo]

They said what happened that morning? And he said that. That's what happened that morning.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My God.

[James Petregallo]

The judge said, Mr. Panetti, let's stop.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, you puppet. That was God's answer to the judge.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You puppet.

[James Petregallo]

In closing arguments, he said this, quote, how long did this deliberate and that. Deliberate, I don't think. I think that you are all way beyond. And this ain't no show. And there ain't no body in this point. Any evidence. And I proved what, without a preponderance of doubt. Those are not words that go together like that. That I didn't know right from wrong and that I was insane. Not lay experts or doctors. And in your hearts, everybody knows. Do you honestly think any of you are gonna go home after making the decision and second guess it? I think without hesitation you won't. And God bless Texas. Thy will be done. Oh, the law sometimes sleeps, but it never dies.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What does that mean?

[James Petregallo]

The jury goes in, deliberates for two hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God bless Texas, you guys.

[James Petregallo]

God bless Texas. Tips his hat to him, ma'. Am. He gives him one of those. They find him guilty of capital murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not crazy. Not at all guilty. Regular old criminal. The prosecution's going for the death penalty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Scott's attorney said, this is not a case for the death penalty. Scott's life history and long term mental problems make it an excellent case for mitigating evidence. Scott instead, though, during sentencing doesn't present any mitigating evidence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Scott.

[James Petregallo]

It's fucking crazy. He asked one of the. There's a different jury for the sentencing. And he asked one of them, quote, I despise the tragedy details, but as far as. Do you understand what Even I don't. Do you know what mitigating means? And the juror said, well, from what I gather off of him, the prosecutor, it means circumstances. Is that what, something to that effect? No, not really. And he says, Scott says, me neither.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Me neither.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. His opening. Well, thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. I think it's maybe odd that you didn't see more of a breakdown. It's. It's been three years, and that was two years ago that I went into the. May have heard being uncomfortable with crime, but I went into the crime that I described as something that I heard in Jacques Cousteau analogy of tears. That whales would swim. And I hope that you don't think it's odd that I don't have more of a breakdown. But again, I must reiterate, I had very untreated mental illness. That in my brief look over some papers that a previous law firm sent, which I should have prepared earlier, there is my culpable mental state.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, fuck.

[James Petregallo]

What does that mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know what that means. It doesn't mean that at one point.

[James Petregallo]

He said that sheep guilty. And that's not justice to the sheep. And I pose no future dangers to anyone, including myself. And even less and less if I were given proper medication. I posed no threat. All right, judge. They come back, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty. Not only do they try this guy and let him represent himself, they're going to kill him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God bless Texas.

[James Petregallo]

God bless Texas. Yeah. What the fuck? One witness said, I watched Scott question some of the jurors. The jurors would look scared. One of the doctors who was at the trial said, in my opinion, Scott's mental illness had an effect on the jury that was visible. It was obvious from the appearance of the jury that Scott antagonized them by his verbal rambling and antics. Scott was completely unaware of the effect of his words and actions. Members of the jury had hostile stares and looked at Scott in disbelief when he rambled and made no sense. Yeah, so anyway, that Detective Jung said, quote, he's the best actor there is. I guarantee you that guy's an actor. For his whole life he's been doing this acting, huh?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He did all this in calculated ways so that he could murder two people.

[James Petregallo]

That's all he wanted to do for years. He knew it. Another, the lead homicide detective said, I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Why would someone who didn't know right from wrong, run from the police, take hostages and engage in a standoff? Cuz he's crazy. Why would he do anything? The answer's nuts. So he appeals. He's got tons of psychiatrists saying, holy shit, he's insane. It's denied. The state fights for the death penalty in every hard. They want to kill Scott. Yup. The Board of pardons voted 14 to 1 to reject a request to commute his sentence to life and 15, 0 in rejecting his reprieve. Sonya wrote in 1999, I do not hate Scott. I hate what Scott did. Scott was a good person, except when he changed. I now know that Scott is mentally ill and should not be put to death. It is her parents, please don't kill him, she said also, my family doesn't understand any of this. She said my family couldn't understand why I was alive and my parents were dead. So they're mad at her because she wasn't murdered. Talks a little bit about the daughter, but we don't have time for that. 2003, this goes to the Supreme Court. They try to, but they don't listen to it. The Texas Attorney General's office said that he's fine. Basically. 2003, Supreme Court did not refuse to consider the case. They said that the U.S. court of Appeals said during trial, Panetti proceeded while dressed in a cowboy suit, gave the appearance of hallucinating, and carried rambling dialogues. He did, however, formulate a trial strategy, improved his trial performance over time, and was able to effectively cross examine and cross examine witnesses. Is that what you heard from the quotes I gave you?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that what he did?

[James Petregallo]

He's fine. Kill him. Scott's mom said maybe they can throw him away like trash, but that's not what he is. He's a human being who is sick, but no one will help. Wow. Yeah. 2004, they issue a death warrant for Scott. He says, by the way, in jail, he's known as the preacher in death row for his manic recitations from the Bible. He's got to be. He's real fun to have around. Yeah. He's told several visitors that the state wants to execute him to stop his preaching. They said he doesn't associate the death penalty even with the murder anymore. Now it's in his head. They don't want him preaching the truth to the prisoners, so they're going to kill him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

2007.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's not that he's okay.

[James Petregallo]

No. 2007, Panetti vs. Quarterman, U.S. supreme Court reversed, holding that the state court competency proceedings had violated his right to due process and that the federal court had applied the wrong test for determining competency. 2014, Texas schedules a new execution date, but the Fifth Circuit issues a stay ordering a full hearing on his competency to 2022. In an opening statement here, his attorney noted it's unprecedented to be litigating an execution competency claim for 20 years. In 2023, U.S. district Court for the Western District of Texas ruled that Scott was not competent to be executed, saying that he had severe mental illness rendered him unable to meet rational understanding of what the fuck is even going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, what is this?

[James Petregallo]

But they left him on death row anyway, so he stayed on death row this whole time. May 26, 2025. This is why we're finally doing it, by the way. He dies.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He dies.

[James Petregallo]

Dies at 67 of natural causes at the hospital in Galveston. Wow. The Alvarados are buried at the St. Mary Cemetery in Fredericksburg. There. Gotta bust out. We're way late here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

If you like this story. Holy shit. It's great. See why I saved it for so long? If you like this story, get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It really helps. Shutupandgivemerder.com is where you get everything. Check that out for all the 2026 tour dates. We're announcing them this week, so get in there and do that. Hang out with us there. You can follow us on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram, Small town pot on Facebook. Patreon.com crimeinsports anybody, $5 a month or above. You get everything you huge, huge back catalog of bonus stuff. New ones every other week. This week, crime and sports, dead cyclists. Why is it so dangerous? And then Charles Starkweather for Small Town Murder. That's going to be good stuff there. Patreon.com crimeinsports get everything ad free as well. So do that and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. Keep coming back and seeing us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

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