Making A Murder Meal - Jeffersonville, Indiana

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder – "Making A Murder Meal - Jeffersonville, Indiana"

Episode Information:

• Title: Making A Murder Meal - Jeffersonville, Indiana
• Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmy Whisman
• Release Date: July 24, 2025
• Description: Two comedians delve into the intricacies of a small town, uncovering what makes it tick and exploring a chilling murder case with their signature comedic perspective.

---

Introduction to Jeffersonville, Indiana

The episode begins with James and Jimmy setting the stage for a deep dive into Jeffersonville, Indiana—a town with a population of approximately 50,000, located just minutes from Louisville, Kentucky. They highlight Jeffersonville's transition from a Civil War-era supply center to a mid-20th-century hub for gambling and nightlife, earning the nickname "Little Las Vegas."

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [06:11]: "He kills a lot. Yeah, he kept all. He's the i5 killer."

Demographics and Community Insights

The hosts provide a comprehensive overview of Jeffersonville's demographics, including racial composition, median age, household income, and housing costs. They emphasize the town's reputation for safety and its appeal as a place to raise a family, despite some critics labeling it as "boring."

Notable Quotes:

James Petragallo [08:18]: "Dog tracks, pussy."

Jimmy Whisman [09:15]: "If you require no excitement, this place is fine for you."

Profile of Joseph Albert Oberhansley

Central to the episode is the tragic story of Joseph Albert Oberhansley, a man whose troubled past and mental health issues culminated in a horrifying crime. Born in 1981 in Utah, Joseph faced significant trauma in his teenage years with the suicide of his half-brother and the death of his father due to a drug overdose. These events profoundly impacted his mental state, leading to substance abuse and erratic behavior.

Family Dynamics: Joseph's relationship with his family is complex. While his mother, Brenda Self, and grandmother, Norma Dodge, are depicted as supportive, Joseph's actions suggest deep-seated psychological issues.

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [24:08]: "If someone decides I think I can get away with murder, I'm going to make fun of that person."

The Crime: Murder of Tammy Jo Blanton

On September 11, 2014, Joseph's violent tendencies erupted tragically when he murdered his girlfriend, Tammy Jo Blanton. The crime scene was gruesome, with signs of forced entry, multiple stab wounds, and dismemberment. Joseph's interactions with Tammy prior to the murder—marked by quick courtship and escalating tensions—set the stage for the tragic event.

Details of the Crime:

• Date: September 11, 2014
• Victim: Tammy Jo Blanton
• Method: Stabbing and dismemberment using kitchen utensils
• Crime Scene: Tammy's apartment, with blood and body parts scattered throughout

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [36:22]: "He pulls out the gun, aims it on Sabrina, yelling at her, saying, it's not my fucking kid and you're a liar."

Legal Proceedings and Sentencing

Joseph's arrest led to a tumultuous legal battle characterized by mental health evaluations, plea bargains, and multiple trials. Initially charged with murder and attempted murder, Joseph's legal journey was marred by procedural mishaps and his ongoing mental instability.

Key Legal Events:

1. Initial Charges: Murder and attempted murder
2. Plea Bargain: Joseph pled guilty to manslaughter and attempted murder, serving up to 15 years instead of potential 30 years.
3. Parole Attempts: Multiple parole hearings highlighted Joseph's erratic behavior and unresolved mental health issues.
4. Second Trial: Complications arose due to procedural errors, leading to mistrials and further delays.

Notable Quotes:

Jimmy Whisman [51:37]: "He said, I feel that it's kind of. It's really. It's made me calm down, made me a lot mellower."

James Petragallo [60:56]: "He's out of it."

Mental Health and Recidivism

Throughout the narrative, Joseph's mental health remains a central theme. His diagnosis of schizophrenia, auditory hallucinations, and delusional behavior played a significant role in both the crime and his subsequent legal struggles. Despite brief periods of competency, Joseph consistently displayed signs of severe mental illness, complicating his ability to stand trial and receive appropriate sentencing.

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [94:25]: "A lawyer who's real good at finding shit other than that."

Impact on the Community and Families

The murder of Tammy Jo Blanton had a profound impact on both her family and Joseph's. Tammy's family expressed deep anguish and frustration over the legal outcomes, feeling that justice was not fully served. Conversely, Joseph's family grappled with their conflicting feelings of loss and the horror of his actions.

Notable Quote:

Tammy Jo's Father [135:44]: "I wish they'd kill him tomorrow. I want him gone. I want him dead."

Interstate Compact and Legal Loopholes

A significant aspect of Joseph's case is the failure of the Utah-Parole Board to adequately monitor his parole violations due to jurisdictional complications. This loophole allowed Joseph to evade stricter supervision, ultimately leading to his release and subsequent repeat offenses.

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [82:04]: "Everyone has Instagram and a fucking iPhone. There should be a real easy way to do this."

Conclusion and Reflections

James and Jimmy conclude the episode by reflecting on the systemic failures that allowed Joseph to continue his violent behavior despite multiple red flags. They emphasize the importance of mental health support and robust legal systems to prevent such tragedies in the future.

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [160:21]: "I don't know if he's legally crazy or not, but just general. If you saw that person on the street corner acting like this, you go look at that crazy guy across the road."

---

Final Thoughts: "Making A Murder Meal - Jeffersonville, Indiana" offers a harrowing exploration of a tragic crime intertwined with systemic oversights and deep psychological trauma. Through their comedic lens, James and Jimmy shed light on the complexities of small-town dynamics and the dire consequences of neglecting mental health in the criminal justice system.

Additional Resources:

• Host’s Website: shutupandgivemurder.com
• Patreon: patreon.com/CrimeInSports
• Social Media: Follow Small Town Murder on Instagram and Facebook for updates and bonus content.

---

Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key points discussed in the podcast episode. For full context and nuanced discussions, listening to the original episode is recommended.

Transcript

[James Petragallo]

Everyone's loving family freedom from T Mobile. We'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Visit your local T Mobile location or.

[James Petragallo]

Learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone16128GB8999 eligible trade in eg iPhone11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile. This week in Jeffersonville, Indiana, police discover a horror scene complete with blood covered walls and body parts found all over the house. And the most surprising thing about this is this isn't the first time this horrible murderer has killed. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co host.

[James Petragallo]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on an absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. As usual, obviously. But wow, is it crazy today? I mean it's extra crazy today. Sounds like the act itself is crazy and the person committing it is even crazier. It's just the whole thing is nuts. We'll get into it very, very deeply. But before we do, absolutely head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. What are you going to find there? First of all, all the merch you could possibly want for all of our shows, including Small Town Murder. But more importantly, tickets for live shows in the fall. We cannot wait. Starting back up in September. Tickets right now there are a few left in San Diego because we released some. So few left in San Diego. I think there's like four Grand Rapids if you want to get there. Otherwise Seattle, D.C. and Philly still have some tickets left. So get in there, get your tickets right now and keep an eye out because we have like holds that they give us and every once in a while we release a bunch of them. So if you're looking for a specific place that's sold out, check, you might find them popping up. I mean not a lot, but a few popping up now and then. So definitely get in there. Also you definitely, definitely want to check out Crime and Sports and your stupid opinions. Our other two shows, Crime and Sports. We're in the middle of a deep dive multi part series on the i5 killer. No sports Involved. It's all murder. It's crazy stuff.

[James Petragallo]

He kills a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He kills a lot. Yeah, he kept all. He's the i5 killer. I mean maybe the i5 driver. Otherwise it'd be a boring story. I don't think we can I5 guy stuck in traffic. I don't think that would be probably a multi parter at least then. Absolutely. Get yourself Patreon. Do yourself a favor. Patreon.com P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com CrimeInSports Just like the name of our other shows. What you get there, anybody $5 a month or above. You're gonna get first of all immediately upon subscription you're gonna get tons of back episodes. Hundreds that you've never heard before. Bonus episodes. Then you get new ones every other week. One Crime in sports. One Small Town Murder. This week for Small Town Murder we are gonna cover that Amy Bradley disappearance that everybody's talking about with that documentary. Because I am intrigued. I mean that is so interesting, fascinating. And it kind of piggybacks on Poop cruise from last time.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You think your cruise went wrong with poop everywhere. How about this? This could be. Could be a lot worse reason not.

[James Petragallo]

To go on a cruise.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Absolutely. So you get all of this and now you get all three shows. Crime and sports. Your stupid opinions and both editions, both express and regular of Small Town Murder all ad free on Patreon as well. It's all we could do for you.

[James Petragallo]

We're crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We could. If we could come over and mow your lawns, we would. But this is all we can do for our five bucks. Go ahead and do that. Patrion.com CrimeInSports that said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. We're gonna make jokes and people are gonna have horrible deaths. That's how the show works. Now nothing is embellished or anything like that for comedic effect. Unfortunately it doesn't have to be because it's that crazy. Everything we cover is that crazy. But there's a nice way to do it. And that's how we feel we do it here. Thing we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims families.

[James Petragallo]

Why, James?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because we're assholes.

[James Petragallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's real easy. There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of. Trust me. When someone decides I think I can get away with murder, I'm going to make fun of that person. That's just the way we do our thing here. That's how we roll. So that said, if you think that true crime and comedy never ever should go together, maybe you might not like this, but I think you might. That's the thing. Give it a chance, but no complaining later. Let's just say that, that said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody, arms to the sky and let's all shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip, shall we? We are going to Jeffersonville, Indiana.

[James Petragallo]

Bet I could guess who that's named after.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yes, you can, because it is absolutely named after Thomas Jefferson. This is in southeastern Indiana, like far southeastern Indiana. Like five minutes to Louisville, far south.

[James Petragallo]

Almost a different place right over.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, almost a different state right across the river there. It's about an hour and 45 to Indianapolis. If you want to go someplace pretty dull, you can go there. That's fine. About 4 hours and 45 minutes to Middlebury, Indiana. Our last Indiana episode, episode 568, the Preacher's Daughter and the Soul Stealer. That was a crazy ass episode. Indiana. You guys bring the crazy. I. We salute you is what we're going to say right now. As far as for crazy shows and crazy stories, you guys get the job done. This is in Clark county. Area code 812. Nickname of this place. Not really all that creative. What do you think the nickname of Jeffersonville is?

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy. Land that time for. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Think real simple.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Is it a place to live, work and play?

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no, not a motto. A nickname.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, oh, nickname.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know what Thomastown.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The Jeff.

[James Petragallo]

Jeff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The Jeff. Which sounds Tommy's town Crazy. A little bit of history. It is named after Thomas Jefferson. Was founded in 1802.

[James Petragallo]

And the county named after Lewis and. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know who the county's named after, but possibly because that was during that expedition is when this place became, you know, was founded. So yeah, it was named after. Now, Jeff. Thomas Jefferson designed the original platting of the town, by the way.

[James Petragallo]

Is that right? Was he an architect?

[Jimmy Whisman]

You'd think he'd be too busy for that. He's got a lot of other shit going on. He was into a lot of stuff. Architecture. He was into science. He was into like animals. That's why Lewis and Clark were bringing all those animals back to him. Because he wanted to like look at them and study them and shit. He was real interested in that.

[James Petragallo]

Wanted a zoo.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, he was a real like intellectual kind of guy. He was interested in everything. So in the 1800s, it became known for shipyards along the riverfront. And it was a big supply center during the Civil War for the Union army that would support the operations in the Western Theater. It was like you'd stop here and supply and then head west and served as a hospital center as well. Somehow it goes from being this little Midwestern town to. In the 1930s and 40s, it became a huge hub for gambling and, like, partying and drinking and.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Little Las Vegas, they called it for a while.

[James Petragallo]

Heading over to the Jeff to get fucked up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To get wasted and lose all. I'm gonna get wasted and lose the mortgage payment, honey, I'll be back later.

[James Petragallo]

Get wasted, gamble and buy some pussy on the Jeff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what they did. They had dog tracks and casinos and betting parlors and nightclubs. This is. It's a tiny town. Indiana. Makes no sense.

[James Petragallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So let's do some reviews of this town here. Here's five stars. I have lived here all my life. Small town with friendly people. We have everything you need. Yeah, we got it all.

[James Petragallo]

Dog tracks, pussy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Come to the jet, baby. Whatever you need. We're also close to big cities such as Louisville, Kentucky, about two hours away from Indianapolis and Nashville. The school systems here are very. Are very. Are great. Sorry. This is not my fault. This is written weird, the school system.

[James Petragallo]

To write this way. When you're talking about the school system.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That'S always a joke. We make that joke about twice a month usually, because it's just. It keeps coming up. The school systems here are great. Very safe place to be. So they're great. Very safe place to be. I'm like, there's something missing there.

[James Petragallo]

The school systems is great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His school systems is great. Very safe place to be. Spelled wrong. B is spelled wrong. B. E. E is two E's. Three stars here. Boring as hell, but pretty good if you just want to live the rest of your life in a calm place.

[James Petragallo]

Well, yeah, that's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you require no excitement, this place is fine for you. Normally there isn't, you know. Normally there isn't any crime here and is a good place to raise kids. There's a lot of diversity here. So you may see people of all places here. Of all places here. God damn it. Three stars. Jeffersonville is a small town with not much to do in it. Yeah, boring as hell, we've been told. So I've heard. Boring as hell. I'd like to see more stories or more stores to shop in and Other amenities. Overall, it's not a bad place and is close to Clarksville and Louisville, which both have many things one can do.

[James Petragallo]

All the vils.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All the vils. Jeffersonville, Clarksville. Here we. This is amazing. One star. I love it when people have no context of the outside world. It makes me laugh. One star. Had to move. The crime rate is ridiculous. Well, we'll be the judge of that because we have the stats. I don't know if you do or not. Yeah, we got this. They keep building and building and building and building for buildings and building and building and building. Could have got on indefinitely at that point.

[James Petragallo]

Take it easy, Dr. Seuss.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's like Clarksville now. Oh, well, not like. Might as well be Clarksville. The booming metropolis of Clarksville.

[James Petragallo]

What is this, Fayetteville? Come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Next thing you know, the monkeys are gonna sing songs about it. Fuck this. This place is crazy. Is that Clarksville or Clarkstown? I don't remember because, like, way before.

[James Petragallo]

My time, but I've heard terrible things about that. Jacksonville, when it gets too big, get.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A ville going, Anything's possible. And then finally, my favorite, a weather complaint, which. I just love these. One star. It's. This is my favorite complaint of any place ever. All the time. Weather is very inconsistent. One day it will be freezing, the next warm, the next rainy, the next windy. It's constantly changing, you know, like weather.

[James Petragallo]

Wish the mayor would get on top of that bullshit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ever heard the expression it changes like the weather? That's because the weather changes a lot. It's an example of something that literally is the most changing thing there is and can change at any time. Wow.

[James Petragallo]

I like it. It's about to get worse, but yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What are you talking about? People in this town? 49,178. So not too small, but not a big city by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, it's not Clarksville or anything. Let's not go crazy here. Oh, wow. It's about. Women are about 50.8% of the population here, so a little over the national average, but pretty close. Median age is about a few months off the national average. It's about 37.9. So it's very, very average here. Family is 48% married. It's usually 50, 50. A couple more people that are single with children, but pretty much near the average race in this town. 75.7% white, 13.6% black, 0.8% Asian, 5.2% Hispanic. Religion. 35% of the people here are religious, which is less than I Would have thought, honestly. It's normally 50. 50.

[James Petragallo]

This is a sin town, James.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess so the number one religion here is other Christian faith. The one that likes you to go to casinos and brothels and shit. Whatever. Faith. I don't know what faith that is, but one of those. They have low unemployment here, I think because there's a lot of places to work. You can go five minutes to Louisville. There's a lot of places around here. Yeah. Median household income here, Normally it's about 69,000 and change in the rest of the country here it is $60,110. So not too far off the cost of living. 100 is regular average here it's 87. So, okay, it's a little low. A little low. And the housing is the lowest one out of everything here. Median home cost here, $217,400.

[James Petragallo]

So not so bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not bad at all. Compared to a lot of other places, it's 338 in the rest of the country. So not too shabby here. Now maybe we've convinced you. Damn it.

[James Petragallo]

Maybe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe you're like, you know what? I want a booming metropolis that reminds people of Clarksville. I need it. I'm gonna go here we have for you the Jeffersonville, Indiana real estate report. Average two bedroom rental here goes for about $1,050. So little. Yeah, a couple hundred under the national average. So kind of in line with its home cost, I would say. Here's the house number one and I'm going to show you a picture of it. It's.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's definitely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why look at the inside.

[James Petragallo]

That close.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But yeah, it's got. Well, look at this. It's. The porch is a tree.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's a thing's way too close.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's paint missing off the walls. That is a brown carpet from about 1981.

[James Petragallo]

Probably not brown when they laid it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that's funky. This is a four bedroom, two bath, 1744 square foot place.

[James Petragallo]

Four bedrooms.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Four bedrooms, 1700 square feet. I had a four bedroom house that was 6.

[James Petragallo]

1700.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, 1700.31 acres. So, you know, decent size lot. Anyway, it's at auction and they're estimating it'll go for about $81,000 is the estimate. Wow. So not bad. Here's another one. This one's kind of more put together. It's cleaner. Four bedroom, two bath, 1643 square feet.

[James Petragallo]

Portland.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That kind of does look Portlandy. But the inside's done. The floors are nice. The walls are painted. It's not a bad place. It's the other house. Finished, basically.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And it's 187,900 bucks.

[James Petragallo]

So put a hundred grand in the other house and you got this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got this house or you just move into this house, save yourself the aggravation. Then there's this house. Look at this thing. Looks like. It looks like Ferris Wheeler's house. It's like a John Hughes movie. Big driveway, stories. I don't like it still has double staircase. No, no, that's just two pictures of the staircase. But it has the carpeted stairs, which is always a bad sign that things haven't been updated. Yeah, it's a five bedroom, four bath, 5,513 square foot on a one and a quarter acre lot. 799,000 bucks for that. Which.

[James Petragallo]

That's a pretty good deal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The rest of the country, you're going to pay a shitload more for that. Or at least in most of the country. In Phoenix, that house would be, oh, two and a half million dollars. Yeah, easy. So not bad. Just had a $76,000 price cut on that one, too. Oh, things to do in this town.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. What is it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, not much.

[James Petragallo]

We've heard that. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I feel like it's built to be a. It's kind of like it's a suburb. And if you want to do things, you should go to Louisville.

[James Petragallo]

Get the fuck out of here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's right there. And so we're not going to put stuff here. We live here. You go over there and do shit that's kind of play there.

[James Petragallo]

Live here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, exactly. Live. Well, just live and don't work or play here. Just live here. Our motto is live, damn it.

[James Petragallo]

Live here. Do all your other shit somewhere else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So it's hard to find shit. Here is Jeff Fest.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. Jeff Fest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jeff Fest. Not to be confused with the Jeff Fest in Chicago, which I was very. Where I was. No, that's at like Jefferson park or something. Some shit in Chicago. And that's. If you search, that's what you're gonna come up with. So I was like putting all the things from that and I'm like, wait, this isn't the right thing. God damn it.

[James Petragallo]

Dang. The Bare Naked Ladies are gonna be here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They had bands, they had all sorts of Ludacris Is there. Of course. Obviously, there he is. Nelly's gonna be here.

[James Petragallo]

Bare Naked Ladies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, but Jeff Fest, you don't get that. This Jeff Fest, you get free children's games, free pony rides and inflatables. Free face painting. So far, I haven't heard one thing for adults. This is all.

[James Petragallo]

Nope. This is all very targeted.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Free make and take crafts for the kids. Get your macaroni and your glue ready, kids. Yeah. Your elbow macaroni and your glue. And parents, get ready to get that fridge magnet.

[James Petragallo]

You don't want this shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, nobody wants that. Hot dogs. And then in parentheses, for sale. Because everything else said free. So, like for sale. Ice cream for sale. Can't give it away. Christ. And free live music as well. And the live music is so good that they don't mention any of the people who'll be performing, which is when you know it's great. Then we have the Rolling on the river craft beer festival.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That seems like it could be okay. It says we want to celebrate and further the craft beer industry in Kentuckiana, which is what they call this area. They absolutely call the Louisville, Southwestern Ohio your Indiana.

[James Petragallo]

Man. They all do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kentucky Anna's a. That's. That name's been around for years and years. That's. They all call that area. Yeah, they all call it that. What? It's. That southeastern Ohio north, south or northwestern Kentucky, Southeastern Indiana. That's Kentuckiana. They call it Shit.

[James Petragallo]

And then there's Pennsylvania.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Between Pennsylvania or West Virginia, as it's known in the rest of the world.

[James Petragallo]

Do these people know that Kentucky is not good?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not sure they're right. They're on top of it. They have to like it. They're embracing it.

[James Petragallo]

They gotta smell it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

With a premier tasting that event that embodies the craft beer lifestyle. Okay. I don't know what that means. Embodies. Khaki shorts and a beard. Is that what it embodies? Because I feel like that's the craft beer lifestyle.

[James Petragallo]

Cargoes. Yeah, cargoes and no shirts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Guests will be able to stroll the expansive grounds of the museum property while enjoying beer from some of the best breweries in the world. We also have fine wine distributors, import beers and more. Enjoy amazing grub from local food vendors and listen to live music. Okay. It says team up with your friends to dominate at Cornhole. Which Dominate. Sounds like you're gonna gang rape a butthole together. That sounds dominate at Cornhole.

[James Petragallo]

I don't like you're gonna make somebody cry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn it. Trash can. Beer pong. Okay. And more. I don't know. I didn't go to college, so I don't know drinking games as much as I would.

[James Petragallo]

Trash can. Like, are they using trash cans on, like, basketballs or something instead of Solo cups and ping pongs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess it makes. Makes it a lot easier drink out.

[James Petragallo]

Of a trash can though. Jesus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I don't know if you want to drink out of it. And the music will be done by Runaway Souls. Yeah, I don't know who that is, but it says jam out with Louisville's finest slice of fuzz pop. What the fuck? I don't know that genre. Rock and roll with heaps of soul. The Runaway Souls. Okay, good for you guys. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here. Let's find out if that guy was right. Property crimes a bit high. It's about really 20% ish high. It's a little high. It's not overwhelming, but it's definitely noticeable, probably. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is also a bit high, but not that high. Not 20%. It's just a little bit high. So there's definitely crime here. But we're five minutes outside of a major city and you know that's going to happen and there's 50,000 people here, so you know, shit happens. That said, let's talk about some murders, shall we?

[James Petragallo]

Let's do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now, before we start, I just want to do a little program note. We've had some confusion apparently. I didn't realize there was confusion, but I've seen a couple posts and a couple times I've been tagged and sent messages about people. Newer listeners thinking that the Friday Small Town Murder Express episodes are a shortened version of a longer story. We did. Not at all. It's not true.

[James Petragallo]

Listen to that. It's a condensed version of last week's show.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what they think. Which understandable because you just think, oh yeah, they just maybe do a shorter version for people who just want to hear. No, no, no, it's a whole other story. It's just a story that's insane enough for an episode but doesn't have enough background or info to make up two and a half hours. So that's an express. They're usually, they're lightning in a bottle. They're, you know, 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag. So they're, they're crazy episodes.

[James Petragallo]

Just wondering that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I understand. Because I mean, well, if you're not that concentrated in it, you're just a casual listener to something. You just go, oh, they have a Wednesday show that's long. They got a Friday show that's short. Oh, that's an express. It's probably a Condensed, you know, I could see it. So there you go. It's not what we're doing here. We're giving you fresh murder twice a week. There you go. So let's talk about a lady first, shall we, here? Yeah. Let's talk about Tammy Jo Harbin. Everybody calls her Tammy Jo. Also. It's a name for Harbin is H A R B I N. Later on she will be Tammy Jo Blanton. Later she'll get married and divorced, she would keep the last name, apparently. She's born January 7, 1968. She is from the Jeffersonville, Indiana area. She went. Lived here her whole life. Her dad's name is Daryl. Her mother's name is Linda. She's got a couple of brothers, Tim, Jason, who will live. And she's got another brother named Darren who dies at some point.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, dang.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know when. Now I'm not sure if this was an infant disease or if he like bought it going over the high side on a motorcycle. I'm not sure.

[James Petragallo]

Bought it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, bought it. Died. Bought the farm?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, bought it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He bought it going over the. If you're talking about going over the high side on a motorcycle, that's buying it. You know, that's not dying. That's. That's the only term I could make work with that.

[James Petragallo]

You bought it given everything you got for it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So I'm not sure how he dies, but he's dead at some point. So she's got a dead brother and two live brothers. She graduated in 1986 from Jeffersonville High School. Now, in the 2010s, we'll fast forward to here. In the 2010s, she is working as a. Doing billing and coding at Zermed, which is a big Louisville healthcare deal. Yeah. So she's doing like, you know, medical billing and coding and that sort of thing. Now In June of 2014, she has a boyfriend that she met a couple months before that.

[James Petragallo]

Hell yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so she's got a boyfriend. At this point she is like, you know, 46 years old.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she's just looking to, you know, have a wife and have a. Have a significant other. So she meets this guy in the spring and by June he's moving into the house. Wow. Yeah. So I mean, that's a quick.

[James Petragallo]

That's fast courtship.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I mean, when you're in your 40s, what are you. What are you really waiting for here? I mean, either like the person or.

[James Petragallo]

You don't make sure they're not fucking insane. You can hide so Much for three months.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The thing is, is she knows a lot about the guy, which is. Makes it even odder that they ended up moving in together so quickly. Because when you find out who kind of the guy's background, you go, you probably wanted to give that one six, eight months before you.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Invited him into your home. Sure. But I think part of the reason why she was disarmed by this young man is because she met him through his mother.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Meeting someone through their mother is very disarming when it comes to that. You think, oh, well, good relationship with mom. That equals. Will treat me right. It's that kind of thing.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know. So did Bates guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, no. He killed his mom and then pretended to be her. No. He was obsessed with her. No, that was a completely different thing. He was abused by her. And it was like. That was an Ed Gaines situation where.

[James Petragallo]

This horrible mother was inspired by that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah, that was a different thing. But that's what Sarah, my wife, has told me many times that that is what her parents told her growing up was figure out how they talk about their mom, because that's how they're gonna talk about you. So, okay, that's what girls are looking at. That's what women are looking at here. If you're like, oh, my mom's a fucking bitch, and blah, blah, blah. They don't. They think you're. Unless they have had some problems and they're looking for a bad guy subconsciously.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If they're looking for someone good, you're out right there. You might as well kick their cat when you walked into their apartment. Like, that's not. Not good. So. But you meet through a mother, I think that disarms you as far as.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know what it is. If someone's mother's vouching for them, it seems like they're nice.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now, this guy's name is Joseph Albert Oberhansley. O B E R H A N S L E Y Oberhansley. So Joseph here, He's born in 81. He's significantly 13 years younger than her, which again, also common for, like, a lot of times I notice, like, when women get divorced, they tend to look for younger guys for a minute. Not. Not like 20, but like, you know, a little bit younger. Age appropriate still, but which is normal because guys do the same thing in like midlife crisis time. So it's very similar. So now this guy, Tammy Joe's friends are immediately suspicious of this guy. There's just a Vibe they don't like off of Joseph.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which is interesting. Now this is in 2014, so you didn't have to hire a private investigator. You didn't have to like just sit and wonder. You could just pop them up on the Internet on your phone, look on your iPhone, and you'll have the answer in two minutes. So they look up all this shit on the Internet and they find some very serious background issues with this guy that we're gonna talk about. And they start warning Tammy Joe that you can't go out with this guy. Don't let him move into your house. Look at what he did. This is crazy. So it's very, very interesting here. So now a little bit about Joseph. Let's give you his backstory because this is very important for the whole thing. Well, he's from Utah originally, and his mom's name is Brenda Self, and she'll come up quite a bit. Brenda is who introduced Tammy Jo to Joseph. So we got Tammy Jo, Tammy Jo and Joe introduced by Mrs. Self, which. That's very interesting. He has a younger brother and a younger sister named Alicia. Now, I don't know if he has any other siblings, but these are the only two that really come into play, so we'll talk about that. He and other people describe his childhood in Utah. As he says, quote, good or better than most. Oh, decent childhood. Nothing to, you know, no big events, didn't get moved around a bunch. You know, mom didn't die when he was 3.

[James Petragallo]

Salt Lake Provo or like down near.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The border, like Salt Lake City. It's around, so it's like Salt Lake City suburbs is where he ends up. So yeah, he's got a grandmother named Norma and she says that she remembers him being such a loving boy when he was just a beautiful kid. She said, the kind who had always put his arms around me. He'd say he loved me and he kissed me, Then he'd bring me flowers and then he'd say, grandma, let's talk about taking this relationship to the next level. And I was like, okay, now he's getting weird.

[James Petragallo]

Let me help you off with them bloomers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. No, no. Joking, joking. So she said he was a sweet kid with kind eyes. That's what his cousin said who's 10 years older. His cousin Misty, who's 10 years older. She said that she never heard him so much as swear as a kid. He was just a real good.

[James Petragallo]

A kid that didn't swear.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kid that. A real in line little Utah kid. Yeah, I don't think Kids in Utah swear as much as we did.

[James Petragallo]

Probably Salt Lake, there's much less.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Probably. Yeah. So things happen, though, that end up making him less than bright and bubbly and cherry.

[James Petragallo]

What happened?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, he's gonna get in trouble a bunch of times. He's got a bunch of problems. A bunch of like little burglaries and stealing shit, stuff like that as a teenager. Yeah, he's doing a bunch of stuff like that. Couple assaults here and there.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, Jesus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now this could be seen a couple different ways. You can look at this as like a, you know, a precursor of things to come. You know, this precedent of something that's going to happen.

[James Petragallo]

Or could just be mad litigious parents in the neighborhood. When he punched a boy in the face and they're like, that's assault.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You could very easily say, boys will be boys. You know what I mean? That's the other thing. So it's. And that's kind of the. You don't really know which way to go with it. Because if you have like a good kid, you don't want to ruin his whole life over something that didn't, you know, nobody's dead or anything, who cares? But also, if it's not a great kid, he's on a bad path, you probably want to try to correct that. So that's a. It's really tough to figure out what to do with a 14 year old who's fucking up. Very tough, very difficult. Now when he's 16, that's when things really, really, really hit the skid, really. His half brother commits suicide. And it's to him, it's his brother. He grew up with him the whole time. He commits suicide. This devastates Joseph.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And then within a few weeks, his father dies of a drug overdose, huh? Yeah. And we don't know if it was suicide or an accident. So.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. And we don't know if that kid is his kid or is his step kid.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So either way, it's not great for this kid. Within a few weeks, his brother and father died. When you're 16, that's a lot of shit to deal with.

[James Petragallo]

It's very close. Yeah. Too many in the house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If they were both in the same car and got in an accident, you could deal with it all at once. But to deal with your brother and then just when you're kind of starting to whatever, then your father dies too. That's a lot to go on. So it's just a lot. So his mother Brenda said that's when everything changed for Joseph. And when his troubles really started, the other shit, she blew off as just teen kids doing dumb shit. But this is really a different story. She said this was just weighing on him so hard, all the trauma and all this type of thing. And she said also, everybody said he started doing drugs at that point as well. Yeah, because just, you know, I mean, kids are likely to do drugs now and then anyway. But now if they're real depressed and pissed off at the world, that's when this happens. So obviously it's a good time for him to impregnate a young lady. Right. Certainly this is the best time. When you're sad, in flux, and hopped up on meth, you really want to knock people up. And 17, the best thing to do is stop grieving, Knock up a young lady here. So at 17, he gets a girl pregnant here. Sabrina Elder is her name. They're the same age and all that kind of thing. At least she's not 13 or some shit. That's good. But this is. And on December 4, 1999, they have a son.

[James Petragallo]

Great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which is terrific. Joseph doesn't think it's as terrific as Sabrina does, though.

[James Petragallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now she names the child Joseph Ober Hansley Jr. She juniored him up. Yeah, she juniored him up. He says, why are you doing that? That's not my fucking kid. What? In the hospital up until this point, like, there hadn't been an issue about it. But in the hospital now, and the kid didn't come out Asian or black or something. I mean, it was a. It's a fucking white kid, you know? Yeah. It's an. Either way, it's not. Not enough for you to be like, I know that's not mine.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, so, you know, like I said, if the kid came out looking fucking Filipino or something, you'd go, okay, I don't think that's my kid. Neither of us are Filipino, so there's a problem here. But, no, it's just a white kid. And so she. She says, it absolutely is your kid. What are you talking about? And he starts freaking out over the paternity. Why'd you name him after me? Why'd you name him after me?

[James Petragallo]

It's not my kid.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he's the only one who is doing this. His whole family is like, what are you doing, Joseph? You're being a nut. They're embracing Sabrina and helping take care of her and the ba. Yeah, they're at the hospital. I mean, it's a family affair. Everybody's on board. Except he's Crazy.

[James Petragallo]

What the hell?

[Jimmy Whisman]

So December 8, 1999, she, Sabrina is staying at his grandmother's house in West Valley City, Utah. So she's staying with his family even. And his mom's there and his little sister's there, the 13 year old, everybody, all the, you know, the whole family's there. And he ends up the night. This is December 8, 1999. He's there as well. Everybody's there. He punches Sabrina in the face that night. He punched a woman who had a baby four days ago.

[James Petragallo]

What the hell?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which is obviously bizarre. Small town murder, approved behavior, Please don't punch women, number one. But especially if they're, if they're fucking still dragging their vagina behind them. Don't let them peel up at least before you start acting weird. This is crazy, man. She's fucking still got a placenta just dragging on. And he's. Fuck, man. So the next night is December 9, 1999, and it's quite the night. Let's just say that this is at grandma's house. We have Brenda Self is there, mom. We have Sabrina, elder girlfriend. We have grandma Norma Dodge is her name. And then we have 13 year old Alicia and we have Joseph Jr. The baby, right? That's who's present in the house. Joseph is not present this night.

[James Petragallo]

Okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Then he shows up and they didn't know where he was. They didn't know when they were expecting him. He just shows up. He is completely jacked up. He's on a shitload of meth. Shows up all fucked up and angry, okay. Walks into the house, he's still enraged that his family is embracing Sabrina and the baby. Because he is still, he's screaming that, that's not my fucking bab still. And you fucking, you, you're taking her side is what they're saying, what he's saying. So he walks into the home, grandma's house, for Christ's sake. And by the way, everyone in this house couldn't be more. It's mom, grandma.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

New mom, baby and 13 year old little sister. All vulnerable people that you should be trying to protect. You would think, right? These are. If you'd say, who do you want to protect in this world? He'd say, those people, all of them, women and children. Well, those specific women and children and.

[James Petragallo]

These specific ones in his life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's what I mean for him. Who would you like to have protected? He'd go, these people, I'll protect them. So he's walking up and down, pacing up and down the hallway several times Muttering to himself, really. And he's high on meth, and they can tell he's fucked up, so they're like, jesus Christ. Then he has. I don't know if it's a backpack or some kind of sack, but he has a bag with him.

[James Petragallo]

Satchel?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, some kind of satchel. Backpack, something. He reaches into the satchel and pulls out a.22 pistol.

[James Petragallo]

Why does he have that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, we'll find out. Here. This is wild. He pulls out the gun, aims it on Sabrina, yelling at her, saying, it's not my fucking kid and you're a liar, and my parents. And he just opens fire on her.

[James Petragallo]

He shot her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just keeps. Five times he shoots her.

[James Petragallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Opens fire. I mean, this is close range. In the living room. He's doing this in grandma's living room. Doilies flying everywhere. This is crazy shit. So now here, Brenda, his mom, sees this and runs over to Sabrina to try to help her. And basically, human shields her. Gets between her son and Sabrina to try to help her because she's like, I'm sure he won't shoot me in the back. I'm his mother. Well, wrong.

[James Petragallo]

He shot her, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Opens fire on his mom.

[James Petragallo]

What the hell?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bang, bang. Shoots her twice in the back and in the arm. And he only stops because he turns his attention to his little sister, who's 13. She bravely. This kid deserves five fucking medals. She ran in the room, scooped up the baby and took off. Ran into another room. Yeah, she saw this guy, 13 years old. She did this. Big balls on you, man. I respect the shit out of this kid, man. So she scoops the baby, runs into the other room. He turns, starts firing at her with the baby.

[James Petragallo]

Holding the child.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His little sister and a baby, the two. I mean, every guy should want to just in your brain go, I want to protect my little sister and babies. I don't want to hurt them. He's like, I will fire at both of them.

[James Petragallo]

And math ruins that thought, evidently.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Apparently. So now grandma is in a back room. So she's unaffected by this, thankfully. Because I feel like. I don't think grandma would have done anything.

[James Petragallo]

She's getting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She wouldn't have fared any better than.

[James Petragallo]

The rest of her Alicia at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't hit her at all. He missed.

[James Petragallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She was running with the baby and he missed. So he's not that good of a shot, apparently. That is. I am. That's. That's wild, because she apparently. What happened was mom heard the gunshots, put the baby down and ran over there. To help Sabrina. So the baby was put down. That's when Alicia was like, oh, shit, the baby's on the floor. Scoop that baby up and run away. Which is. Wow, that's incredible. Amazing that he didn't hit her. That's. That's so lucky. So, yeah, she just ran out of the room at that point. Here comes Grandma. Grandma rushes in from the kitchen into the living room. And he's standing there with the gun, his wounded mother on the floor. A shot five times. Mother of his child laying there. And instead of turning the gun on grandma, he turns it on himself. Turns it on himself, puts it under his chin and fucking fires.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gun under the chin and fires.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unfortunately for everybody, I feel like, especially him, this bullet does not kill him.

[James Petragallo]

Doesn't even go into his head.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, it does. It gets lodged in the frontal lobe of his brain.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he's down and unconscious. Now, this is quite the scene here. I mean, this is crazy. So grandma calls the cops, and the deputy chief shows up and said, when his mother tried to protect Sabrina, he shot his mother, then shot himself. This is crazy. Now mom is gonna survive her wounds. Yeah, she's gonna survive two shots. One in the back, one in the arm. Sabrina's dead. She's dead. She's dead. When the cops arrive, she's already dead. There's not even a. Yeah, she's dead on arrival here. So now his suicide attempt leaves, like I said, a bullet destroying the frontal lobe of your brain, which is a pretty traumatic brain injury. And if you know anything about how brains work, that's where all of your, like, all of your skills and shit. No, no, no. That's where your. That's a bad idea comes from.

[James Petragallo]

That's your frontal lobe skills.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's impulse control is your frontal lobe. So people who have damaged frontal lobes, that's why they often. It's a problem. Commit crimes and shit later because they have lessened impulse control. That's all that is. Or that's what they're doing. Either way, I think it's kind of the same thing, isn't it? He spent three weeks in a coma.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Woke up and they charged him with murder.

[James Petragallo]

Welcome back, dipshit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hey, buddy. Hey. There you are.

[James Petragallo]

Good morning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Warrant for your arrest. This is for murder. So now they said at that point, he's a mess. Now, his cousin, by the way, that watched him grow up, said the person he is now, meaning pre shooting himself, just in general. I don't know him. He's a monster. That's what she said. So he is going to be charged as an adult with a first degree felony murder charge and a second degree felony attempted murder for wounding his grandmother. He probably should get. Yeah. Ergo's mom. Yeah, he probably should get that doubled up because he definitely tried to shoot his sister and a baby. So let's give him a couple more attempted murders on that, I would say, but they don't.

[James Petragallo]

Assault with a deadly weapon, something instead.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And this is 1999. They release him from where? They don't hold him for trial. Somehow.

[James Petragallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

This seems like the last guy you would let out. Like, you know what I'm saying? If he's not, he's obviously a dangerous guy. So you want to keep him in. And he's got some whatever mental issues and he's got, you know, traumatic brain injuries. Let's hold on to him for a while. But instead they're gonna let him out here. First he was jailed in lieu of a million dollars bail. Now he's gonna have to be at his grandmother's house. His grandmother's letting him come home. Why? This kid just killed that woman's daughter. Shot that woman's daughter in this lady's living room. And she's like, come on back, Your room's ready for you.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So Norma is a nice woman. Holy shit. Kind is kind different.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow. He has to wear an electronic ankle bracelet to make sure he stays there. That's all he's got. He's just got to get a bracelet on. Wow. The judge had refused to lower the bail, citing concerns over public safety and his possible suicidal tendencies. But that was for the last couple weeks. But then the judge releases him without requiring bail. He's not even on bail. Grandma didn't even have to put her house up. It's just ROR to grandma's house.

[James Petragallo]

Whoa.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which is. That's insane. This is after a pretrial services. Psychologists said there's no longer a threat of suicide. Doesn't seem suicidal anymore. Well, he's still homicidal probably. Let's worry about that too.

[James Petragallo]

He doesn't want to die now, so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let'S let him out so he can fuck with other people. Now they basically, during all this, they're going to go to trial. And to take him to trial for first degree murder is going to be complicated. They know it's very complicated because his mother and his grandmother don't really want to cooperate. Oh, no. They want to protect him. So they're not really cooperating with anything.

[James Petragallo]

They want his mother too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His mother too. Like they're not, they don't. In court, their testimony is. They don't know what the fuck they're going to say basically on the stand. They don't know what to do here because they're the eyewitnesses. So if you take them to trial, you need them. And if they, if you don't put them up, people are going to go, where are they? And if you do put them up and they say something different, they're victims. The jury's going to take that with a lot of weight. So instead they said they have to end up working out a plea bargain with him because they really don't have any other choice. Yeah, because the trial could be messy and he's got a bullet lodged in his frontal lobe and he's a mess. So in 2000, he pleads guilty to manslaughter and attempted murder.

[James Petragallo]

Okay, okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He says in part of this also is he says he was very high at the time and everybody backs that up. That he came in with his eyes fucking dancing. Yeah, that's. Well, that's voluntary intoxication. It's not like somebody injected you with something while you were walking around drugged, man. No, so. But still they're saying, you know, it complicates things a bit, basically. So in exchange for the two second degree felonies, the prosecutors promised to recommend concurrent prison terms, meaning at the same time not to run consecutively, which is a big win for him because otherwise if you stack them long ways there.

[James Petragallo]

Then he's in trouble.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, a lot more years where he'll probably. They're saying he could serve up to 15 years rather than a possible 30 years he would have gotten before. So he can get out in 15 years, basically at the most, is what they're saying now, the public and a lot of people said, why the hell did you make a plea with this guy?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, what the hell.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, he obviously did it. There's ballistics, there's a gun. He did it. We know he did it. We have the grandmother's statement from when he got there. So whatever she testifies on, that's what happened. But the prosecutor said that the case was problematic because not only were the only witnesses members of his family, his mother, his 13 year old sister, obviously all those people, they said not only were they reluctant to testify, but because of a two to three week drug binge, lack of sleep and emotional stress, the prosecutor said that Joseph was probably not completely rational at the time of the shooting.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I mean, if we all do that, then we're just gonna be shooting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Folks. If you don't sleep for three weeks and do a bunch of meth, I can't.

[James Petragallo]

You can't murder somebody, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know what my behavior would be at that point. Because your brain is not working right. You're probably hallucinating at that point. You know, you go three days without sleep, you'll start seeing fucking cartoon characters. You will see spongebob at the end of your fucking couch. If you. If you do three weeks of no sleep and you add drugs to it. Holy shit. So they said also, he said he wasn't himself. And they said that he. They didn't think he was himself. They knew something was wrong because they said he wouldn't have shot and wounded his own mother unless there was something real fucked up going on with him. That's not even who he was mad at. But it kind of was, because they were. His whole argument was, they're taking your side to his. You know what I mean? That my family's taking your side. But the guy said, this is the prosecutor. I'm convinced if we went to trial today, we'd get a manslaughter conviction. So let's just take a manslaughter conviction, basically. Now, during sentencing, one of the craziest fucking thing that's ever happened happens, okay?

[James Petragallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

His lawyer, Ron Yengich, who is hilarious, by the way, this guy's got balls the size of cantaloupes in a courtroom, man, and in a judge's chambers, apparently here, because he takes offense to the claim by the prosecutor that this defense attorney, Yangich, had a conflict of interest. So not only does he say it's not true, he takes, like, personal offense to it, and he's pissed off. All right? Now, the prosecutor was trying to say that while Yengich was defending Joseph, who's accused of shooting his mother, his mother is paying for the defense. His mother's paying this lawyer. Okay, so. Which is. They're saying the victim can't pay for the. The. You know, the perpetrator's lawyer. So that's a conflict of interest. And that's also why she's a reluctant prosecutorial witness, because she's paying for the defense, for Christ's sake. So as this hearing about this fact, by the way, the judge dismissed that as stupid. So after this hearing ended, Yengich, the defense attorney, called for a huddle at the judge's bench. And he said, quote, I've been attacked personally and unfairly. And he said it Was a cheap shot. I think Castle is calling into question my ethics. Was one of the lowest shots I've ever taken. And I believe the court has an obligation to def. Defend my integrity.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's a punch right in the dick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You're calling me. You're saying I'm a scumbag here. You know, it's a different story. So the judge says, let's put it on the record. And he says, no, I want to speak to the judge in chambers. That's what Yengich said, who continued to complain about Castle and the judge's failure. Castle said, I don't know what he's talking about. The prosecutor, I don't know. And the judge says, well, we're gonna find out right now. And takes both lawyers into the chambers, says, we're gonna get to the bottom of this. So in chambers here, Yengitsch raises his fist up right in front of the prosecutor and says, I'd like to punch you right in the face.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which is extremely rare in a courtroom or in a judge's chambers. That's a more relaxed environment.

[James Petragallo]

Like, the judge is about to see a fist fight in his office.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So this isn't performative for anybody for the. This is. There's only three of us in the room, and I'm gonna punch you. We're about to throw down, me, you, him, and the court reporter, and I'm going to beat one of you up, and it's you, motherfucker.

[James Petragallo]

I'm going to punch you. Where nobody can write about it in shorthand.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So the sheriff's. The bailiff's commander that was there said that the prosecutor was, quote, a little upset, to say the least. The prosecutor took a complaint to the sheriff, who said that the threat was particularly inappropriate inside of a judge's chambers.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So the. Ron Yengich offered the court officials an apology here for his clenched fist. And apparently, this guy's known for his outbursts. That's what he does in court. That's his lawyer style. Angry outbursts. Yeah, that's his thing that he does here. But he had to say that, you know, he lost his, you know, lost his temper and lost his cool there and all that kind of thing. He said, I reacted angrily. And he said, because these are very difficult cases, the emotions run high. And then praise the judge for his handling of the situation, you know, because he's got to try a case in front of him here. So they said that it was pretty. Prosecutor said, that's as close to an apology that you're ever going to get out of somebody who's like. With his temperament, basically, that's all it is. The guy said. The prosecutor said it's over. He apologized. A new attorney has been assigned for our side. So they replaced the prosecutor. So the guy got what he wanted. He got rid of this prosecutor in the end. It worked out for him. Now the defense here, Yengich, argues that the damage that Joseph had inflicted on his own brain is actually. You should sentence him accordingly because it's actually beneficial to him.

[James Petragallo]

How so?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And society in the greater scheme. He said that this. He's a much calmer person than he used to be. And this could long term make him a much more calm person. Maybe the bullet took apart that one piece of him that makes him shoot his mom.

[James Petragallo]

He shot the murderer in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, he shot it right out. It's all gone now. So he did some. He did some really imprecise brain surgery is what he did. Yeah, but it worked.

[James Petragallo]

Fascinating. Lobotomy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yep. He said this is all gonna lead to less aggressive behavior so you don't have to worry about him in the future. Yeah. He said things went wrong for him and he gave him a sob story about his younger brother committed suicide. His father died of a drug overdose. And then he blames the media also. Oh, yeah. He says he turned into a gangsta mentally. Imagine hearing this guy say that in court.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Only in 1999 would you hear a lawyer say gangsta in court like that. He turned into a gangsta mentality. Into a gangsta mentality glorified by the media and music. Oh, so it's. That's what it is. It's music's fault.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Master P. Master P. That's the problem. I blame Method man for all of our nightmare.

[James Petragallo]

And he caused all of this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That might be true, actually. Silk the Shocker might have caused it.

[James Petragallo]

They're both bad people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's. They're bad guys. So that's a. That could be true. And see murder also. It's that whole bunch of those. There's a bunch of guys I think still in prison over Mexicans.

[James Petragallo]

A child molester.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck, man.

[James Petragallo]

Fucking crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Crazy. So then he said an attitude that is being. That being macho is right. So the media turned him into. I don't know how being macho is right. Means you shoot your mom. That doesn't make sense.

[James Petragallo]

That's not macho at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not macho. It's the least macho thing. He walked into a house with a bunch of Women and children and started shooting them. Super macho of him.

[James Petragallo]

How does shooting the mother of your children equate to shooting Tupac on the strip in Vegas?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Remember all those John Wayne movies where he was just mowing down women and children all the time? Take that, pilgrim. And he'd fucking sway off and then go do something horrible and fucking racist. Probably because he's fucking John Wayne and he's an asshole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You ever heard an interview with him? He's not a good guy.

[James Petragallo]

He's such a scumbag.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not only for that. For many other reasons.

[James Petragallo]

For a million other things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For a million things. So he, then, Joseph is going to read from a prepared statement. He says that he accepts responsibility for killing Sabrina and for taking drugs and for, quote, other poor ass decisions.

[James Petragallo]

Poor ass decisions.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He read that off a piece of paper. He wrote poor ass decisions. I'll say that in front of the judge. That's what he wrote.

[James Petragallo]

The judge will know what I mean by that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said that he can't trade his life for hers. No. What if he could? But he can't. So he won't. You know, it goes. But he said he would try to, quote, become the best person I can and the best father I can be to my son. At this moment, the boy was being raised by his aunt. Oh, well, Joseph Jr. He said, I can remember being real, real, real intoxicated from my drug use. Three real. Yeah, three reels. It's less than all the buildings in that one review. But it's still there. It's still there. The judge said that basically, quote, it was a serious decision to bring a child into the world at the age of 17. But it was also tragic to then deprive that child of its mother five days after it was born.

[James Petragallo]

That is fucked up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're not a good guy. But you, young man, may fuck off. 15 years, pretty good. It's two 15 year sentences. Concurrently. Concurrently, yes. Now the reactions are mixed here. Sabrina's family said that, quote, we did not agree to the plea bargain. This is the grandfather, Alfred Ermer, and said they just rolled right over us.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Because they said we're getting manslaughter either way. So we're taking manslaughter.

[James Petragallo]

We're gonna run with it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And this is. I'll just quickly bring this to a modern case, which is the Coburger case, where you got half the families are like, good, thank God I don't have to see my kids autopsy photos splayed in the courtroom and then come to Court for the next 20 years and all these appeals and this'll never end. I'm glad this over. And then half the families are very upset because they wanted the death penalty. They wanted to come to court for 20 years. Yeah. It'd be one thing if. When you say death penalty, then they drag the guy out into the gallows. That's what. You know. That's not what it's going to be.

[James Petragallo]

And they can't because you have to make sure that this is the right guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Exactly. And that's why you have appeals and all that. Because we've. We have killed so many people who weren't the right people. And that's not great. We don't want to do that. Now we know Coburger did it, obviously. I'm just saying that it's a similar situation here where they're complaining, saying we weren't complaining, and they just did it, basically. And in Idaho, they did the same thing. They said, life without with no appeals. How do you turn that deal down?

[James Petragallo]

He's gone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because a lot of people are like, you'll never know why now. You'll never know why. If he went to trial, you'd definitely never know why, because he'd be appealing it for 20 years. Still saying he didn't do it.

[James Petragallo]

Still doing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He'd never admit it. At least this way he admitted it. Maybe he'll get bored in 10 years and write somebody a letter telling him all about it. But he'd never do that if he had a million appeals lined up.

[James Petragallo]

It's the best chance you get gut to. To find out why.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Totally.

[James Petragallo]

He's trying not to die. Then he's not like. That's the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's never going to admit.

[James Petragallo]

Desperate. Right. That they'll ever be. And they'll never tell you anything in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That case because he's. He's saying he didn't do it still.

[James Petragallo]

Right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So at least this way he has.

[James Petragallo]

To say, bundy did that up until the last day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he was. And then he only whispered it.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His whispering is the creepiest thing.

[James Petragallo]

So awful.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The whispering of a serial killer is the strangest shit ever.

[James Petragallo]

Serial killer who says pornography the way he does?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He says. It's so weird in the context. He puts it in pornography. Pornography.

[James Petragallo]

It doesn't say R. He says.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he says, like pornography. Like Pen. Like pornography. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

It's so creepy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pornography.

[James Petragallo]

If it wasn't for the pornography. Oh, Jesus, Ted.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, that's not. It didn't affect me that way. At all. I just whacked off a bunch. That's. I didn't want to kill anybody.

[James Petragallo]

I just tugged more. I was like, there's more of this. Great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe if you took my again, maybe if you took away my pornography, maybe then there would have been an issue.

[James Petragallo]

But I'll stab you with a pen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. If you're gonna let me keep it. I'm too busy. I'm too weak from whacking it to go kill a bunch of people. I'm weak.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm in a state, man. Hey, everybody, Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about a wonderful sponsor, thrive market.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, thrivemarket.com.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Absolutely. Me and Jimmy, both of us here, have been trying to clean up the way we do some stuff here. It's been working. It's been working. And not just for health, but for everything. For your budget, for your health. A lot of things you could do. You gotta feel better. Tired of standing there trying to. Trying to read ingredients in a grocery store. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm looking for, even so. And then you end up overpaying. That's the other thing too. If you want something healthy in a grocery store, it's just, here's this. It's got half the ingredients and it costs three times the money. There you go. And it's like, this is. This is awful.

[James Petragallo]

This is what I want. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thrive Market is what you need to do. It's a total game changer. You're gonna love it. We get the same high quality brands, but for less. No compromising on any standards you have here. It's like your favorite health food store, but online and really way more affordable than any health food store. Premium brands like Primal Kitchen, WHO and Simple Meals, all delivered to your door up to 30% less than what you pay at traditional stores. Everything they sell is 100% non GMO and meets incredibly high standards. They actually ban over a thousand ingredients that are still allowed to be put in products in the US Mostly things like artificial dyes, preservatives, and seed oils. You know, some of them you want to avoid. You know what I mean? So the site's really easy to shop. You can filter by diet, which is great. I'm telling you. Sarah is gluten free. And this makes it so much easier to find the gluten free things filter through that. If you're keto or any of that stuff, you can do it in an instant. It's great to do that. You really want to do that. And you can stock up on any of the essentials. You got magnesium omega 3s and herbal teas. And they have supplements, household items, clean beauty stuff, too. Everything all vetted and all way more affordable than you're going to think it's going to be for something that nice. And the shipping, it's fast, it's carbon neutral. You sign up, you get to pick a free gift worth up to $60 with your first order, which was pretty great. And you want, you're going to try something new that's free and you're going to be awesome. And I'm telling you, you're going to like it a lot. You can find everything you need there much easier and at a much lower price. So skip the junk without overspending. Head over to thrivemarket.com smalltownmurder to get 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift. That's thrivemarket.com smalltown murder thrivemarket.com smalltownmurDer now.

[James Petragallo]

Back to the show.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whether you're into comedians roasting each other's life choices or turning yesterday's bad decisions into today's funny stories, Amazon Music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with Prime. Download the Amazon music app and get in on the joke or go to Amazon.com ADfreecomedy that's Amazon.com ADfreecomediDy to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. So, but understandable for the family to be upset about that. We get it. But I mean, for the state, the problem is, and I should reiterate, by the way, because there's people that have a lot of emotions about the co Burger thing that I have somebody in my family that was horribly murdered. So we all went through this already. So kind of understand. And they made a deal with that person. She's still in prison. This person, it's been 34 years. She comes up for parole all the time and doesn't get out. But we all understood that at a certain point, whether this is for right or for wrong, but it is what it is, that it's the state versus that person.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. It's not. It's not the family versus him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Once they put the cuffs on, you're not involved anymore.

[James Petragallo]

It's over, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know what I mean? It's not. It's this. It's what's best for the state. So if the state's going to save millions of dollars or the state's good, that's what they're going to do.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's what they can prove.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. And your emotions don't really factor into the. The state doesn't spend millions of dollars for people's emotions. They just don't in any other aspect. So they're not gonna do it there either. That's. I'm just saying logistically, why they do it, not that it's good or bad.

[James Petragallo]

Laws and emotions are separate for a reason.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's the thing. That's why, yeah, you can go kill the guy yourself, but once the cops are involved and they put the cuffs on, you're kind of out of it at that point. It's the way it is.

[James Petragallo]

Then we'll prosecute you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, my family went through that, and we're Italian. Obviously, revenge comes up first, but, I mean, it's done, so I get it. So his lawyer, this is Joseph lawyer, said, I know that I felt very sorry for him. Yangich said this. It was one of those cases where you couldn't either read the reports or deal with the people in the case without feeling a great deal of sorrow. It's just a mess. The whole thing's a mess. A random lady from Reno said, quote, oh, no, this is not a random. This is the grandfather. This is Sabrina's grandfather. Said he'll be out in three to seven years, so he can do it again in Nevada. Joe would have got more time for shooting a horse, which I don't know if that's true or not. Now, during the whole time he's in prison, he complains about hearing voices.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Now, he does have a big chunk of his brain fucked up, so that's highly possible. He also. The Utah Department of Corrections lists two aliases for him that he gained while being in prison, which are Ghost. Yeah, And Bullet.

[James Petragallo]

He got a couple of nicknames. Well, Bullets. Pretty good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I mean, it's not great. At your parole hearing, probably. They call me Bullet. I'm fully reformed.

[James Petragallo]

It's right back there and pointing at his forehead there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Oh, he thinks he has something in the middle of his forehead. Later on we'll talk about. Really? Oh, he does. He's got some weird shit going on. So in July 2004, he's up for parole.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The grandfather said two, three to seven. He thought, we'll see close. Yeah, we'll see. So in July of 2004, he's up for parole. His mom Brenda's there, and Sabrina's family's testifying against him. Obviously, this is July 1, 2004, during the proceeding, the parole board asked Joseph if he suffered from brain trauma from when he shot himself.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he said, this is true. It's a very weird response. You'd mark that down as no matter what he said? If he said it that way, we're saying, yes, that's weird. So the parole board asked him how the self inflicted gunshot changed him. And he said, quote, I feel that it's kind of. It's really. It's made me calm down, made me a lot mellower. It made me to a degree, I feel a bit slower mentally, which from his speech, it sounds like he's a bit slower mentally now. Sabrina's family pleads for him to be kept in prison, right? Yeah. One family member said a 15 year sentence wasn't tough enough to begin with. He walked in and in cold blood killed a new mother with her baby five feet away. That's crazy.

[James Petragallo]

But she's still in those mesh panties, for Christ's sake. It was so soon after.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's horrifying. Yeah. She felt horrible enough, for Christ's sake. You could have just let her feel bad for a few more days. That would have been enough.

[James Petragallo]

I assure you. She felt humbled.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, no shit. So another relative of Sabrina said, the primary objective of the board is to protect the public. The board also has a duty to safeguard the rights of the victims. That's what we're asking for. Now, Joseph's mother, Brenda was still. She said she's still in pain from her back wounds from being shot. And she continued to defend Joseph and said, I think drugs had a lot to do with it. God, that's not the son I know. Other relatives of his, though of Joseph's, asked that he remain locked up. His aunt and uncle, who have now adopted his infant son, said he'd become obsessive before the murders, before the murder. And they changed the child's name because they felt it unfair to have the same name as the guy who killed his mother. And it's kind of a famous name of a psycho murderer at this point. So, yeah, let's go ahead and give him a little more of a chance.

[James Petragallo]

Whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Apparently, Joseph had sent letters and demanded baby photos, calling the boy Baby J. Baby J. Even though he knew that they changed the kid's name, he still called him Baby J. They believed also he'd sent someone to take pictures of the child while he was like. While they were like doing stuff.

[James Petragallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Some stranger showed up snapping pictures for Joseph.

[James Petragallo]

He was like, at the park?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, go take Pictures of the kid sitting outside the living room window taking pictures of the kid. Creepy. Also, he wrote them things like, looks like he's starting to get pretty big. A cousin also meaning he saw pictures of the kid because they didn't send him any. A cousin also contacted the parole board to tell them about a tattoo that scrawled across Joseph's back that they don't all know about. They're like, you might want to know he's got a tattoo that he got in jail that says murderous deeds on it across his back. Which is not great at your parole hearing for murder, right? That you got that like you're proud of it. It's not like you got it beforehand, you got it since then. That is crazy. And basically this cousin said, this will should warn you of his remorselessness. Essentially, a board member asked him question Joseph and said, do you comprehend the gravity of what you've done here?

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They said he couldn't believe that. How casual Joseph was. And he says, you're acting almost like you've shot. Like you'd hit somebody's dog. Not even shot. Like you hit a dog with a car. And you're like, oh, accidents happened, Bolted.

[James Petragallo]

Out in front of you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you're like, I mean, I feel bad, but, you know, shit happens. Basically. He's denied parole, by the way. Denied parole. He is going to be kept in prison until July 10, 2012. That is when he's paroled. Now, there's a strategy here for this. He has two years left on his sentence total, so they can only keep him on parole for two more years. So what they end up doing here, and they do this a lot. Rather than have him max out a sentence in there and then walk out completely free, not knowing if he can do anything, you got to let him out a couple years early. That way he's on parole. That way if he fucks up, it's a parole violation, an extra charge, and you can keep him longer. Basically, that's the way they do it. But if he can be. Keep his nose clean for two years, then, hey, look at you. Maybe you can. Maybe you can make it. So there's a. There's a strategy to that. Because I've heard people go, why'd they let him out on parole? It's like, well, they were trying to. Actually trying to fuck him. They're trying to fuck him. Exactly. They're trying to screw him. But he's went around it. Now he has an immediate request once paroled, and that is that he be allowed to transfer to Indiana where some of his family lives. Where he'll be able to stay.

[James Petragallo]

The family that I hurt, I want to be near them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Including Brenda, who has moved out here. His mom. So he wants to go with his mom. I mean, his mom. Jesus Christ. Talk about, talk about like, you know, being there for your kid and like, wow, this is the ultimate mom. This is a lot. It's, it's too much. It's to an extreme that's. I've seen this before in my life that people defend their kids too much and it's not good in the end.

[James Petragallo]

Get out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No. They turn out to be jerk offs.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. And they just suckle mom's tit for the rest of their life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what happens. They're never going to not be a jerk off. So they allow his transfer to Indiana because they say that it might be a more beneficial environment if he had. If he's just alone in Utah there, it's probably not going to be able to get his feet under him because I mean, he went to jail when he was 17.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he's never been an adult.

[James Petragallo]

And now he's an adult in Utah with brain damage.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Exactly.

[James Petragallo]

And he's got to try to make it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they always say too like John Douglas in the Mindhunter book says when they do profiles, they'll say like, you know, we think this guy's, you know, 25 to 27. But if they did time in prison, that's different. If they did 10 years, they could be 35 to 37 because that's, that stunts your, your growth in prison. So he's basically a 17 year old kid with brain damage walking out of prison now. So they want to, they want him to stay with mom. Please stay with your mother.

[James Petragallo]

Basically 17 year old with brain damage that has no job or life skills.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No. And doesn't know how to get one or do anything.

[James Petragallo]

Has no clue.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No. So he's gonna need mom. So he moves to Indiana and he still kind of has some. His mental health is not great. I'm sure he's still saying he hears voices every once in a while. Didn't tell the parole board that. Told them he's just doing great. But yeah, he's peachy.

[James Petragallo]

He's got murderous deeds on his back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, he gets a job at a car dealership.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Because you got to wear a shirt there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got to wear a shirt. But I mean that's how easy it is to get a job at a car dealership. Hi, I'm Freshly paroled, got a bullet in my head, never had any work experience whatsoever. Shot my mom, killed my girlfriend.

[James Petragallo]

The shit out of a centric.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's go. Did I tell you I shot at my 13 year old sister while she held my 5 day old baby? Anyway, let me show you to a new civic. These are really great now I'm telling you, you're gonna love them.

[James Petragallo]

Technology in the ultimate is fucking crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's wild. So 2013, he's working there, he starts hanging out at a bar, which is probably not the best thing for him.

[James Petragallo]

I can't believe he's allowed, right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He starts hanging out at Johnny D's, a bar in Jeffersonville. One of the bartenders named Trina said that he would come in alone and play darts. Doesn't really know anybody.

[James Petragallo]

Kind of a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're not really playing darts, you're practicing darts at that point. That's all you're doing, you're practicing darts. I guess if you go out in the driveway, you just shoot some hoops. You don't really play basketball if you're alone. It's kind of hard to.

[James Petragallo]

I guess you call it playing basketball though, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know. The game of basketball says it's two people, people against each other.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. It requires an opponent similar to fucking darts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what I mean. Yeah. You're just practicing otherwise at that point. Yeah, I mean, Christ. So I mean, running around isn't a race unless there's somebody else there. So he has some trouble pretty quickly, by the way. Okay. He's going to. This is wild. He is going to be. Put it this way, in the end, he's going to be arrested for choking out a bar patron and resisting arrest. All while naked.

[James Petragallo]

Naked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All while naked.

[James Petragallo]

They saw the tattoo.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dude, I got. Imagine that. Somebody choking someone with their dick swinging in a murderous deeds tattoo across their back, balls just dangling. Wow, that's interesting. So I had to give you the umbrella before I gave you the details.

[James Petragallo]

Because clothes come off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, well that's another whole other issue here.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's going to be charged with strangulation and resisting law enforcement.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which should get him put away for a long time, I would think.

[James Petragallo]

Violation. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So. Well, we'll find out. So what happened is he met a Woman, this is March 2013, and agreed to go home with her. Which many witnesses back up in the bar that they were getting along and she asked him to come home with her and he said yes. And that's where shit pops off now. Okay. In the Middle of the night, the bartender of a different tavern called Slammers. Another bar? Slammers called police to report the sounds of a fight in the apartment above the bar.

[James Petragallo]

In our apartment.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so this chick lived above a bar but went to a different bar?

[James Petragallo]

Well, yeah, you don't want to do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't shoot. No. And then pick. It'd be a lot easier to bring someone home. Wanna go home?

[James Petragallo]

Sure. Let's go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get in your car, go up the.

[James Petragallo]

Steps, up those stairs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, we can have four or five more drinks. Don't worry, it's just stairs. So they said there's a fight going on upstairs. Which again, to be able to hear a fight over the din of a bar is pretty. That's a pretty good fight going on there. So as police arrived, a woman threw the door open and screamed, he's killing my boyfriend.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. This has gotten real different real fast.

[James Petragallo]

Why did you do that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now there's a boyfriend involved.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, my God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Out of everything Joseph does, this is kind of the thing he's least responsible for. I'm gonna say this is on her. Cops walk into the bathroom to find Joseph fucking butt naked, dick swinging like a pendulum.

[James Petragallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Choking a man who is barely conscious. This is. Imagine walking into that scene. Walk into the bathroom. What the fuck is going on?

[James Petragallo]

Imagine being the boyfriend walking in on your girlfriend fucking someone else. And then that guy kicks your ass while naked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's total righteous gemstones at this point. Right. It's the naked guy beating up BJ in his house. Jumping on his back with his ball sack dangling, breaking shit. That's what's going on. So his. Joseph's knuckles on his right hand are swollen and bleeding at the time. So he's obviously been doing something. He refuses to release this man's throat.

[James Petragallo]

Not yet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They have to tase him twice to get him off the guy.

[James Petragallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is some shit.

[James Petragallo]

He was intent on hurting this man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. But he said he tells the cops that I'm the one who was scared for my life here.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm naked for Christ's sake. Yeah. He said the women. This woman invited me into her apartment to have sex, he said. And we're in the middle of it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And some dude fucking runs in and hits me from behind with a baseball bat. I don't know who the fuck this guy is. He said. I don't.

[James Petragallo]

From behind. He's hitting me from behind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, everyone's getting hit from behind. Lucky he used the bat for hitting instead of for other things. So that's what he's saying. He said, I don't know. I'm a victim. I got attacked from behind with a baseball bat in a place I was invited. What am I supposed to do? He said that and they noticed he was bleeding from the head. So he did get hit in the head with a baseball bat. So anyway, he said the couple took his wallet, his ipod and the keys to his Chevy Camaro.

[James Petragallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're taking my Camaro?

[James Petragallo]

Bitching Camaro.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a dealer loaner, man. They can't steal that from me. And also police ended up finding some of the items listed hidden all around the apartment.

[James Petragallo]

They were robbing him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They were fucking robbing him. She lured him up. That's why she doesn't go downstairs to pick up guys.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, she goes to a different bar.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They lured him up there to beat him up and rob him. It literally is what happened. They said the apartment was filthy. It was gross in there. The woman first told a police officer that he followed her home uninvited. Joseph did. And then her boyfriend rescued her. But officers noticed as she was saying this, her shirt was on backwards and inside out. And her pants were unzipped. You look like you threw your clothes on pretty fast. This is not the outfit. Yeah. Did you wear this outfit to the bar? Oh, yeah. So you went into the bar with an inside out backwards shirt on?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And your pants unzipped. Then she finally confessed. Okay, I went with him willingly. I invited him. So the police book him into jail. They booked Joseph.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He got set up. This is crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Still can't fuck around, man. Not on parole.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, you could fuck around until the cops tell you to release the guy. And then they have to tase you twice. I think that's the problem. So that's when they're like, I still am resisting it. This guy. So he. No, he's booked on in county jail on charges of aggravated battery, strangulation and resisting law enforcement.

[James Petragallo]

God dang.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That self defense is like a. I mean, Jesus Christ. They beat and robbed him.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's crazy. So he had a thousand dollar cash bond. And the court record doesn't note whether prosecutors discovered his past or advocated for a higher bond. They don't know. But they say David Dodge, who is his mother's stepfather. So his step grandfather bailed him out. That's who came and got him. Now later on, they asked the judge, Judge Weber, and he said that he doesn't recall how the thousand dollar cash bond was calculated. Typically, he said, a bond is set by schedule, meaning anyone charged with the same class of crime would face the same bond. A class D felony, like strangulation typically carries a $5,000 bond, which requires a $500 payment for release. Obviously, they said this was actually set higher because it required $1,000 payment. Oh, but they don't know. He says he doesn't know why that was, and he says he didn't know anything about his criminal past. He didn't know Joseph's past. That wasn't why the bail was higher. He said there was nothing extraordinary about this case. I wouldn't have remembered this guy from a lump of coal. I would have remembered naked in the bathroom choking a guy. I would remember. I'd remember that forever. That would have been like when someone asks you what's some crazy cases you've heard of? I'd be like, oh, here's one. Check it out. Now, the Utah parole board does not receive any reports of violations on this at all. Nothing. He is being supervised by Indiana parole officer on behalf of the Utah Department of Corrections through a program called the interstate compact. The program enables an Indiana officer to send reports to a Utah parole officer, who would then alert the Utah parole board, who are the only people that could actually revoke his parole.

[James Petragallo]

So they got to tell him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They should tell them. Yeah. And the. One of the prosecutors in Utah said, we would have absolutely wanted to know and definitely would have considered a warrant, but there's a kind of chain that has to work for the information to get here, which is crazy when you think about it, because this is not 1982. This is 2013.

[James Petragallo]

It's unbelievable.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Everybody has Instagram and a fucking iPhone. There should be a real easy way to do this. There should be an app that they have that they just load up shit to in a portal, and it'd be super easy to do that. Why wouldn't you have an interstate compact app and have everybody on there be able to access everything? Jesus Christ. So they said that at minimum, for.

[James Petragallo]

The murderers and child molesters, let's keep.

[Jimmy Whisman]

An eye on people. Let's just keep an eye on the people who've done some real bad shit. Let's just do that, you know? So they said that Joseph's Indiana parole officer was unsure if the police. Unsure from the police report if Joseph was the victim of the perpetrator. Because they said by reading the police report, it sure sounds like you shouldn't have arrested this guy for anything but resisting and in the rage he was in. This is all kind of understandable.

[James Petragallo]

I might be mad, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's what I mean. I might be pissed off, too. They brought me here and fucking got me naked and tried to rob and.

[James Petragallo]

Tried taking my Camaro.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. They're taking Warren's wealth. No regulators there at all, man. So he said that he contacted the prosecutor's office, the parole officer in Indiana, which advised it knew nothing of the case. And then the parole officer said he sent four subsequent queries to the prosecutor, none of which were answered, none were unanswered.

[James Petragallo]

God damn it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he just went, all right. I mean, obviously they don't care, so fuck it, let it go. When a quarterly progress report was due in Utah in July, his parole officer said he noted the arrest. The officer wrote it was unclear if he would be prosecuted and promised to alert Utah if charges were formally filed. So basically it's in a holding pattern. So everyone's like, we'll see what happens. And then it just kind of goes away.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right, Now, May of 2013, it was like two months later, he's convicted of speeding.

[James Petragallo]

As you do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, as that. That happens. Even the best of us can speed once in a while. 2014, early 2014, he gets arrested for driving with a suspended license from the speeding. From speeding. Yeah. That charge ends up being dismissed somehow.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. But now he's in the fucking cycle.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he's in this cycle. He also is starting to fall apart mentally a little bit here. He's got some issues. We'll talk about it. He also thinks his family is trying to kill him. Let's get into that. Anyway, he reported to the police that his family was trying to kill him at one point. We'll talk about that later. He is caught driving recklessly and runs from the cops for 40 minutes. 40 minute chase, by the way.

[James Petragallo]

That's a long time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a long chase. Like, I'll watch like on patrol and they'll have a good chase. And it's like eight minutes is like, holy shit, this is going on a long time. This is crazy.

[James Petragallo]

You've lost all ability to say, I didn't see you back there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragallo]

40 is like, you can't say that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just saw one last weekend where the guy did something just like that. He was going like a buck forty in a Cadillac. And when they finally pitted him and knocked him out, he's holding his hands out and he goes, pedal stuck. Pedal was stuck, man. Pedal stuck. Meanwhile, earlier in the chase, he had stopped and done a U turn. Yeah, but the pedal Stuck, man.

[James Petragallo]

There's bees in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, bees. He goes, pedal stuck. Pedal stuck. And fucking. They're like just ripping him out of the car. Shut the fuck up. The pedal's not stuck. Oh, dude. So that's. We'll talk about that now. That's going to lead to charges of criminal recklessness and resisting law enforcement. What happened was, though, he's taken to the hospital after this arrest because his mental state is all wacky and he claimed the FBI was following him.

[James Petragallo]

Awesome.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. He asked the nurses to shoot him or give him a gun. Which nurses are not. Nurses are notoriously heavily armed. That's the. They're not there to heal. They're there. They're there to bust a cap in that ass. That's what they're there for. Yeah, that's it.

[James Petragallo]

We're putting them down like cattle today.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He then referred to himself. They said, well, what's your name? When one of them came in. And this is what he would say the rest of the time. He said that his name is Zeus. Oh, Zeus.

[James Petragallo]

Ghost.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no. Or bullet. No, it's Zeus. And he also bit his own wrist really hard, like drew blood and was ripping his flesh out, basically. So a few days later, he's taken for inpatient psychiatric treatment where he's prescribed medication. He bonds out of jail and sought medical treatment and was found to be paranoid and delusional. This is after he bonds out of jail, but he actually goes and seeks medical treatment. So that's good, that's positive. He's not running away. So does Utah hear about any of this?

[James Petragallo]

Hey, not a word.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Guy running from the cops, calling himself Zeus and shit. You might want to know about that. Just saying. He's yours. None of these encounters with police were reported to the Utah Parole Board of Pardons and Parole.

[James Petragallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The head of the board said, we had no reports of violations, so we didn't even consider a warrant or extradition. The information we had was that there was no violations and he was doing well, doing just fine. So that was July of 2014. That is when Indiana authorities, they, I guess he was driving erratically and he did a 40 minute chase that ended in a slow speed pursuit. He did an OJ after that and just went slow. This is just before midnight one night. And it ended up in Louisville is when they finally caught him. So the prosecutors agreed to reduce the bond from 25,000 cash to 5,000 court cash, which means 500, basically 10%. So the judge who has presided over most of his cases since then, since he Got to Indiana, set the initial cash bond for 25,000 and then they lowered it. So, yeah, he's Zeus. The FBI is following him, all that kind of shit. He approved an agreement between the prosecuting. The judge did, between the attorneys to lower it to 5,000 in court cash. And the judge said there was no dispute. They basically, they had simply tendered an agreement. So the judge wasn't involved. The lawyers came to the judge and said, we've got this worked out, we've tendered an agreement. The judge said, basically it short circuited me out of the process. And he said that decreases in bonds due to agreements are not that unusual at all. Happens all the time. Well, when he was in his inpatient thing there, saying he was Zeus and everything, they, they were in the hospital, they noticed the severity of his conviction condition here and said that holy fuck, he needs some help. So, yeah, they like I said, he went out and then went back in again into a hospital. When he came back the second time, he was found to be paranoid and delusional. Yeah. His parole officer though here said Ryan Harrison, who's a supervisor of the Indiana Parole District 9, said that Joseph showed up for meetings every month in first parole, passed drug tests and seemed like a straight laced guy.

[James Petragallo]

Attaboy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Interesting. Very, very interesting. So luckily for Joseph during this time with his, you know, whole issue with the driving, he has someone to bail him out.

[James Petragallo]

Really? Who?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because I don't think mom can afford it. No, no, no. His new girlfriend, Tammy Jo Blanton. Remember her? Yeah. There's a whole reason why we're talking about him is Tammy Jo. She paid a thousand dollars to get him out of jail.

[James Petragallo]

What a gal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, she's a superstar here. Now, during all of this is when he starts dating Tammy and moves in all of this stuff in and out of the hospital. I'm Zeus. I bit my arm.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Slow speed chases. She's like, you're fine, you're my guy. Wow. And apparently according to Brenda, his mom, when he was with her, when he's with, you know, Tammy Jo here, he's a different guy.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. He said they all went out. The families, meaning Tammy Joe's family and his family. And Brenda and Joseph were all very close, saying they had regular outings together, saying that Tammy Jo and Joseph had a real good relationship, quote, unquote. Yeah. Now, like we said earlier, the other co workers, Tammy Jo's co workers are kind of leery of him, as women are of friends, boyfriends, they question things.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The amount of like friends, boyfriends. I've heard, like, Sarah talk about when we discuss whether he's a serial killer or not is remarkable. It's remarkable. We judge them from a thousand miles away or whatever and just, he sounds like a murderer. She should stay away from him.

[James Petragallo]

Bad guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bad guy. The weird part is people come to us for, like, a judgment on people. Like, you guys know about murderers.

[James Petragallo]

What do you think about this?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know. Let me know if he kills somebody. I don't fucking know. I'll. I'm not a psychiatrist.

[James Petragallo]

Doesn't sound like a murderer to me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm a comedian who knows how to use Google. That's all I am. I'm a comedian who's real good at finding shit other than that.

[James Petragallo]

Thing about murderers is you're not one until you do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. And I don't think we can pick them out. So anyway, the co workers said that it was pretty obvious that Joseph was mentally ill, even to them who probably didn't spend a lot of time with him, I guess. Also, Tammy Jo had told coworkers about him. One thing was that he was hearing voices that he hallucinated. Both of those are, first of all bad. If you hear your friend's boyfriend is doing either of those things, advise dumping him.

[James Petragallo]

Isn't hearing voices a form of hallucination?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because that's delusion.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hallucination is seeing.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Delusion is believing. Yeah. So hearing voices is that. And also he was telling people that he was God. Not. Not God. A God. Not the God. Yeah, not the God.

[James Petragallo]

I'm not presumptuous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A guy like Groundhog Day, where he's like, I'm not. I'm not the God. I might be a God.

[James Petragallo]

You know, I might be a God. A God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A God. Not the God. So now he told Tammy Jo about his past, but he was a little bit vague here. Her friend Tanya said that. That she was just. He was real vague. And he said that he was a kid when it all happened. He was only 17. And, you know, he saw he's changed now. He did his time in prison and he really reflected on himself. And he did a lot of growing and took classes and whatever the fuck other bullshit he said. So the friend said that she loved him.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tammy Joe loved him. The friend said, quote, she was trying to give the man a second chance. Oh, that's what her. That's what Tammy Jo's dad said. She was trying to give the man a second chance. He seemed at first like a pretty ordinary Guy, he even helped her dad build a deck.

[James Petragallo]

Hell yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's good stuff. Yeah. You get in there and help somebody build a deck, they're gonna like you after that, you know. But then her friends grew suspicious, which makes sense. And they grew suspicious because Tammy Jo became withdrawn and would never see her friends anymore. And they worried that she wasn't allowed to see her friends type of thing. Not that she didn't want to. Joseph also added his name to her Facebook page. So it wasn't Tammy Jo Blands, but it was Tammy Jo and Joseph now. So you know those couples pages? Yeah, they're weird, but that's usually somebody. People who've been married for 20 years, they do that because it's. They're only posting pictures of their kids anyway and just for their grandparents or.

[James Petragallo]

Something, one of them fucked up and isn't responsible enough to be on social media.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the real reason. But they definitely pose it in a different way.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. As we're just in a relationship and we want to see we are one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somebody was getting private messages. So instead this is to monitor her online activity so he has access to her shit.

[James Petragallo]

There's that too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They've only been together for a few months, man.

[James Petragallo]

This is March to June, July, whatever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's crazy. It's crazy to be have a Facebook page together at that point. Yeah, live together, but a Facebook page, that's serious. Live together, have a baby, but don't Facebook. Now we're talking. So Monday, September 10, 2014. Okay. Tammy Jo tells a co worker that Joseph assaulted her over the weekend. So they talk her into not going home that night to him. Obviously he lives in her house now, so she does not go home. She stays somewhere else and avoids the home completely. So she wanted to avoid Joseph at that point. Then she sent him a text message ending the relationship. Basically ended it over. Oh, she broke up saying, quote, no one and I mean no one gets to terrify me the way you did on Sunday.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's one thing. She's 46. She's not 19.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, a 46 year old, unless she's had a lot of problems and trauma in her life, they're not going to put up with that shit anymore. No. Even if she would have when she was 25 by 46. No, not happening. Yeah. So she told him to take all of his shit and that the locks are going to be changed. So go home. I'm not there. Go get your shit and leave because I'm changing the fucking locks the next Day Joseph visited her at work because obviously she wants to.

[James Petragallo]

He showed up at her work, at her job. Oh my God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow. She's lucky that he's lucky she didn't call the cops on him. So she. And he ended up leaving because she wouldn't talk to him. So what's he gonna do? At least he didn't have like a freak out and jump up on her desk and, you know, pound his chest and say, king Kong ain't got shit on me. Some weird shit. So that's good. The next day, the new locks are installed. So Tammy Jo returns to her home that day. That evening, Joseph tries to come in and retrieve his shit. Now he wants to get his stuff.

[James Petragallo]

I couldn't do it earlier. I was busy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He gave. She gave him a window. Yeah, now the locks are changed. So he wouldn't. She wouldn't let him in. She's like, no, motherfucker, I'm not letting you in. There's locks are changed for a reason.

[James Petragallo]

Told you what to do and you didn't do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So I love that she's got such a. Not happening dude. Not even gonna do it.

[James Petragallo]

Told you. Nobody, but nobody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So apparently he left. And then at 3 o' clock in the morning, the cops get a call from Tammy Jo. He's back, saying he's back and he's trying to kick my door down. Oh, Jesus, here we go. So, yeah, this is 3am on September 11th. She said her ex boyfriend's trying to break into her home on Locust Street. When the cops arrive here, Officer Brandon McGee arrives. They find him outside and turns and complains that she changed the fucking locks on me. All my shit's in there and I can't get in. She changed the goddamn locks. So the officers talk with him for a little bit. He complains and ba ba, ba, ba ba. Then his mom comes. Mom shows up, talks to him for a little while and basically tells the cops, let me talk to him, I'll get him to fucking calm down and leave. She does, he leaves.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Brenda calms the situation down. She's got balls. Last time she did this, she got shot. Yeah, but she showed up and did.

[James Petragallo]

She's diffusing things now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow, this lady is too. Too caring of a mother, I would say. So anyway, he takes off and leaves. Now, next morning, still that same day, because that was three in the morning, but now the sun's up and everything. September 11, 2014, Tammy Jo doesn't show up for work, which it's been a long night. She was calling the cops at 3aM Maybe she's sleeping.

[James Petragallo]

We overslept her alarm.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. But everyone at work knows her as excessively reliable, basically. And she always shows up to work when she's supposed to. And she just didn't come to work. No call, no show. So, like, that's strange, A co worker named Tessa shepherd started calling her phone, trying to reach her, and no one ever answered. No one ever answered. Then finally, after countless phone calls, a man answers the phone. Oh, A man answers the phone, says, yeah, no, no, I'm Tammy Joe's brother. How's it going? I'm Tammy Joe's brother. Tammy Joe went to care for our father.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm at her house with her phone for some reason, but she went to go care for our dad.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And, you know, I guess she's doing that and I'm watching her house, I guess is how it works. I don't know. So that's strange. And Tammy Jo's co workers are like, that doesn't sound right. No, doesn't sound right. And the one lady here, from the beginning who was calling all the time said it kind of sounded like her boyfriend's voice.

[James Petragallo]

Kind of sounded like. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So I'm a little suspicious. I don't know if that was her brother.

[James Petragallo]

Basically, it sounded like Darren or Daryl.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they're like, this is no. Or the other brother or the other Darryl, either. So they said that they're just increasingly worried. Then they said, all right, we're gonna call the cops, have him do a wealth. What's the worst that could happen? She's sitting in the living room and she tells them I'm fine, and they go away. That's great.

[James Petragallo]

Or. Or the brother's sitting there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or the brother's sitting there going, she's at my dad's house. That's also fine, I tell you.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I fucking told you. What are you sending cops for? So they contact Tammy's friend named Sabrina hall, another Sabrina. Sabrina calls the police to go do a welfare check. Now, the police arrive and they look, before they do anything, they look around the house. They do a little, you know, you go around back. I go around perimeter just to see who's around and see if, you know, there's somebody. Somebody with a machete hiding behind a bush out back and a run out. So they do that. They discover signs of what look like forced entry on the back door.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't like that at all. But they don't know when that's from. So they Go around front and knock on the front door. Joseph answers the door. Oh, hey, hey, how's it going? Steps out onto the front porch. Immediately the cops notice that he's bleeding and has a pretty good sized cut on his hand.

[James Petragallo]

Uh oh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're like, we don't like that. They go, well, you know, we gotta make sure we're safe. Mind if we search you real quick? No problem. So they pat down, search him real fast and find a brass knuckle knife, which, if you don't know what that is. Brass knuckles, where a knife opens up out of the end of it and they're pretty nasty.

[James Petragallo]

Or a fixed blade. Right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fixed blade too. That too. But this I think was. It was the other kind that you could punch or stab with on the one of those. It's in his pocket now. I don't think he's allowed to have that particular.

[James Petragallo]

Certainly not. No, no, no. The brass knuckles bit alone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No. Yeah, not good. But the worst part is this knife has hair and blood on it. Oh, they don't like that at all here. So they also said he was talking a mile a minute. Joseph. Just like a meth guy or like a guy who has. In a severe state of mental illness. One of the ten. Either or basically works for that shit.

[James Petragallo]

Both are pretty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah. Or when you add them two together, oh boy, you're gonna be talking. So Officer Connie Veers is the first to enter the home and she found what she described as, quote, blood everywhere. Everywhere in the bathroom especially, and a, quote, bloody mound in the bathtub.

[James Petragallo]

What is that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's a. What's a bloody mound? What could that consist of? That sounds horrifying. She also noted that the back door of the home had been forced. And then on closer inspection of the bloody mound, they discovered it was Tammy Jo's body. It wasn't a bloody mound. It was a fucking person. A person who'd been taken apart, as we'll find out. She's kind of under the shower curtain, sort of basically kind of draped over her. There is a hole in her head with brain tissue just everywhere around it, coming out of it. Like, not like a wound where the bullet took brain tissue with it. Brain tissue opened and pulled. Yeah, out of here. Part of her skull was down by her knees.

[James Petragallo]

Oh my.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where? I don't know if you're familiar with anatomy, but it doesn't belong there, doesn't go there.

[James Petragallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Blood was scattered all over the house on and near various tools and kitchen cooking implements.

[James Petragallo]

Holy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dude, this is getting way weirder. Here. This is real gross. Everybody in and around the kitchen sink were knives, cooking and eating utensils, and dirty plates covered with blood.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, my God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You see where we're going with this? Body tissue were found. Was found in the trash can under the sink. Just chunks of flesh and things. There were cooking tongs. Tongs. Jimmy, what is going on? Like you're flipping a pork chop in the frying pan. There were tongs covered in blood and a dinner plate with what appeared to be skull and bone fragments all over it.

[James Petragallo]

What's the. Okay, what's the point? I don't understand why to take her apart like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It wasn't just a taking apart, Jimmy. That's. That's why.

[James Petragallo]

He was gonna make her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, he did make it.

[James Petragallo]

He did make it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, we'll talk about it. What he did is horrifying. Let's talk about her injuries. This poor woman. Jesus Christ, man. She tried to do a nice thing. She tried to do a nice thing, give somebody a second chance. When it didn't work, she even did that, right. When it didn't work, she even did that, right? She cut it off immediately, changed the locks, call the police. Everything you're supposed to do, she did everything. In the Handbook of How not to Get Domestically Murdered, and she did it. And it didn't work anyway. She is found to have 25 sharp force injuries, including eight stab wounds. Blunt force. I'm sorry. Stab wounds and blunt force injuries to her throat, neck, nose, mouth, lips, fingers, chest. And a camping tent had been draped over her corpse. It wasn't a shower curtain, they found out. Several of these horrifying wounds were inflicted while she was alive, by the way.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, dear Lord.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Torture. The medical examiner found that not all of her body was there. They found that most of her heart, lungs, and brain were missing from her body.

[James Petragallo]

Just not there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not present in the fucking corpse. In the bloody mound. Not present. They will find out later that her heart and brain and some of her lung had been eaten.

[James Petragallo]

Is that right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Had been fucking eaten, Jimmy. And listening audience.

[James Petragallo]

Why do you. Why.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why does anybody. Whenever there's an eating situation, you go, why?

[James Petragallo]

What the fuck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like, Dahmer sort of had a reason, not an excuse, but he was like, I was trying to make them apart, whatever the fuck is. Weird reason. I don't see that reason here.

[James Petragallo]

But the. The things he ate are so big, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah, well, he had to cook them. He cooked them. He cut him off the kitchen and had a whole thing going on. Yeah. That's why all the kitchen, all the utensils were all bloody. He went in, Bobby flayed the whole thing. Yeah, he. He did a whole fucking.

[James Petragallo]

Holy shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shit is crazy, man. So the cops arrest him. They're going to go ahead and arrest him.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got a knife with blood and there's body parts everywhere. So they're gonna go ahead and take him in, they take him down to the station. And here's where it gets real weird now, right? It's been weird so far.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now it's getting real fucking weird. The next 12 hours or so are gonna be the craziest shit ever. He's while being brought to the station. During the ride, he would only stay state over, and they Mirandized him and everything, but over and over and over again, he kept saying, the wicked will flee. The wicked will flee. The wicked will flee. The wicked will flee. Don't know. Over and over and over and over again. And they're like, whoa, dude, this guy's. Now if you've walked in and you've seen all the brain parts in the kitchen and what's going on in there, and then you got the guy in the car and all he's saying is, the wicked will flee. The wicked will flee. You're like, who the fuck did we get here? So the interrogation lasts for three and a half hours. He spoke of tingling, said he was being electrified, wanted to restore the balance, and also talked about Zeus falling. Okay. He said, I'm tingling. I'm like, I'm electrified right now. I shouldn't have opened that gate.

[James Petragallo]

What gate?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just want to restore the balance. That's what he's saying. I have no idea. He kept complaining that there were too many gates open. He kept telling the cops, there's too many gates open.

[James Petragallo]

What is he talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

The gates are open, guys, Zuul is here, not Zeus. You misunderstood me. It was Zuul I was talking about. Yeah, the gates are here. He kept saying that. Then at one point he says, I didn't kill her. They're like, no. And he goes, no, two black guys killed her. So you're covered in blood and you're here, and you were at the house, and the two black guys ate her. Okay, let's. Tell me about the two black guys. He said, well, two black guys had been at her home when he arrived at like 4am So 3am Was the cops there? He left, came back an hour later. Okay. He said that the two black guys got there, they were already at her home. And first of all when he got there. When the cops got there, he first told them that he didn't even know she was in the home. He's like, tammy's not here. Okay? Then he claimed that these two men did it. But here's the thing. They weren't there to kill her. They were actually there to kill who? Me, Me. Me. Joseph. He said Tammy arranged to have the two black guys kill him. They were hired help.

[James Petragallo]

And I turned the tables.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, the men instead killed Tammy while holding him hostage. He said they were holding me hostage and they just decided they were going to kill Tammy. I don't know if she didn't.

[James Petragallo]

Because he's such a good guy. That was so bad of you, Tammy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fucking crazy. Then he said, zeus fell.

[James Petragallo]

Zeus fell.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they're like, huh?

[James Petragallo]

None of this makes any sense.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Talking about. So the detectives stepped out of the room to gather themselves. Because you gotta get a strategy when someone's doing this. Whatever your normal interrogation buildups are, let's build rapport. And then we do this. And then you come in with that is out the window when someone's going, zeus fell. I feel electrified.

[James Petragallo]

Well, he did say. He did put himself there too. So that's good. There's that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There is that. But he's there with two black guys, he said, who are murderous and bloodthirsty. So the detectives step out of the room. He begins breathing heavily. Joseph does. And audibly buzzing. He's going. He's doing that? He's vibrating, but he's audibly doing it. Yeah, like he's some sort of piece of machinery or something. So the cops step back in. Imagine looking at that through the fucking two way, and you're like, whoa, this is crazy. You're all filming this, right? I hope. Because this is wild. We're going to play this at the Christmas party. This is crazy shit. He's buzzing. I'm gonna go back in and find out what that's all about. So they come back in and he said that, listen. Okay, yeah. They go, okay, so there's two black guys there to kill you, right? That's your story. And he goes, yes. He said the reason why she hired them to do this. That's the part that's the most fucked up, man. That's the most nefarious part. They were going to kill me and steal my third eye in the middle of my forehead.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So that's what they were gonna do. They were gonna steal my third eye. Yeah. He said that they wanted to eat his brain.

[James Petragallo]

The brain, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Eat his brain and take the third eye from the center of his forehead, you know, in the brain there.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And so. Wow. That. What do you.

[James Petragallo]

I think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What do you say to that?

[James Petragallo]

You gotta, you gotta prove that this man's not insane. That's, that's, that's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You go, either he's really going out here trying to win an Academy Award or he's fucking nuts. One of the two wrong. Yeah, some's real wrong. But. So they leave the room again to discuss.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he starts breathing heavily and buzzing again.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they're like, I think he's his own devices. I kind of think he's nuts, man. Like. Yeah, like that's what they're thinking. Like, does this seem like this is an act to you? And they're like, no. Plus the fact that we think he ate a chick's brain and heart.

[James Petragallo]

And we also probably already know that he tried. He's a failed suicide. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not yet. These guys don't know shit about that yet. No, no, they just, they came to the house, there's some guy with blood all over them. They don't know anything about him at this point. So when they return, that's when he admits to prying Tammy's head open with a knife. He pried her skull open with a knife so he could eat her third eye from out of her brain. Okay. Now this, by the way, in mythology, this third eye shit is believed to be a gate. Gate. Gates are open to the inner realms of higher spiritual consciousness. It's all of these third eye is like all of this kind of. It's like mystical kind of like, you know, like, I'm trying to put it like Fernando Valenzuela thought he had a third eye thing going on. It's like a, you know, like a Mayan. There's a lot of different cultures that believe in that.

[James Petragallo]

It's a real mythological conspiracy theories around it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, yeah, that too. But I think we can say probably.

[James Petragallo]

Nobody has three eyes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm saying that if you have a third, it's probably somewhere we can see it, put it that way.

[James Petragallo]

And it's probably because you live near a nuclear reactor or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Some weird shit, power lines too close to the house.

[James Petragallo]

You're not gifted something, you're not more important than anybody else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So, yeah, I ate part of her brain to get her through third eye. Fucking pride it open, man. Ate it. So the cops go, all right, we're going to take another minute here. Just hang, hang loose, would you they go back, they come in and out of the room like eight times because they're just like, what the fuck, man? What do we do?

[James Petragallo]

I heard what he said.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

I heard it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So I'm going to read from the transcript.

[James Petragallo]

Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Of the whole thing while he's gone. Here in parentheses. So this is, like, what he's doing. Growling, hissing and heavy breathing. He's. Grr. Doing that shit and breathing heavy, saying the words, back down, back down. Then more hissing and growling. And then he says, no harm, no harm. Then you can hear his cuffs moving around a lot. And then you hear he's doing that. Starts buzzing again, and then starts doing all sorts of cuff movements, just moving his hands all over and really being nuts. Okay? So the cops go back in there because they're like, we gotta go back in there before this guy fucking loses his mind here. Yeah, they go back in. They go, what's wrong? And he said, I can feel a presence in this room.

[James Petragallo]

You can?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Do they. How many eyes do they have? Let's start with that. So they say that he revealed to detectives at that point that, yes, I ate Tammy's brain, tried to pull the third eye out with the tongs. That's what they were for. That Tammy had taunted him in the bathroom by saying, checkmate, and that the thunderstorms that were happening outside were attempts on him.

[James Petragallo]

To.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Attempts to kill him, strike him with lightning or something. Yes. And that she said, checkmate after he killed her.

[James Petragallo]

Perfect.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So that's why he had to do it. So the cops go. And also. Oh, that's the other thing. He said that they go, well, how do you know what she was thinking and all that? And he goes, I could hear Tammy's thoughts.

[James Petragallo]

I knew it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I could hear her thoughts. And they went, step outside for another minute. Okay. You're going to be okay. They do. They go back outside, leave him alone, and he starts banging, mumbling, growling, and buzzing all of the. From all the different times they've left the room. He's now brought his whole act together to do it all at once. Now, none of this piecemeal shit. One big performance now I want you.

[James Petragallo]

To see it all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So then they get back in, and he says, I can smell them. There's a presence. I can smell them now. He said, listen, I was lying in bed with Tammy when he. When I started tingling, and he said, started getting my tingling. That's how he put it.

[James Petragallo]

Getting it, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Started getting my tingling, man. The storm started coming, and I caught the Vision.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, so at one point, now he starts moving around the interview room, claiming that there was something going on around him that he didn't like. Now he's like one of those guys in a movie that's like, the ghosts won't leave me alone, man. They're just talk. Come on. Shut up, guys. That's what he's doing basically all around the room. And he kept saying, I can smell it. I know there's something right there.

[James Petragallo]

They're all here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I can smell it. And they're just like, dude, it's just us, bro. What do you. You know, what the fuck? Can we get you some McDonald's? Like, I don't know what to do for this guy to chill him out.

[James Petragallo]

He's full.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's full. Then he began knocking on something, banging and buzzing and growling. And he yelled, hey, man, I'll fuck your world up.

[James Petragallo]

Oh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To nobody in particular, not to the.

[James Petragallo]

Cops, just to rant, okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just to whoever was there and around him, he didn't want, said, hey, man, fuck your world up, brah. So then he started growling more and yelled, down, down.

[James Petragallo]

Get out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay? He explained to the detectives. Sit there the whole time watching this, and they're like, this is wild. And they believe him, by the way. They're like, yeah, I'm sitting right next to him. He's crazy. This is not an act. Like, if he. He would be the greatest actor in Hollywood if this is real, because I'm believing this shit. So at that point, he tells the detectives, they're like, hey, you know, we're here for you. He said, you don't understand, man. They tap in and control my mind.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said, they'll come in anywhere. It's a spirit. It's a sense.

[James Petragallo]

It's like Wi Fi, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It just comes 5G, man. 5G. It's coming. Watch out. So, yeah, he's doing that shit. So the interrogation continues. He starts growling and buzzing, you know, from time to time. Now and again, he growls and buzzes. Then he asks one of the officers whether he was going to receive his gift of immortality or not. Am I immortal or not, dude?

[James Petragallo]

Am I going to receive it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Am I getting it? And the cop's like, huh?

[James Petragallo]

We don't know what you're talking about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I made 43 grand last year. I don't know anything about this. Like, immortality. Jesus Christ, I have no idea what you're talking about. Then they take him, appropriately, I would say, to a padded cell. Oh, they take. Yeah, they transport him to the jail and place him in the fucking having a bad day unit there.

[James Petragallo]

Don't open your own head on us.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Exactly. When they removed the restraints from him in the room, he began panting and beating his chest like a gorilla.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

While panting. Later on they said, let's put him in there. Let him chill out for a little bit. He's a little. A little jacked up. So then they go back and meet with him and ask him a few more questions, like maybe we could have a little chat with you again.

[James Petragallo]

Are you okay now?

[Jimmy Whisman]

You okay? The main question is they'd like to know what happened to Tammy's heart.

[James Petragallo]

Where's that at?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where's the heart? Could we find that somewhere? And he said, I ate it.

[James Petragallo]

The whole thing?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I mean, the parts that you could eat. The rest of it I threw out. That's the flesh chunks, you know, that's. You know, there's gonna be gristle, obviously. I mean, nothing's perfect.

[James Petragallo]

Valves are gonna be crunchy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Your ventricles don't really want the soft, fleshy part. You could do, like. If you. If you cook them slow and then do, like a reverse sear on them. I hear that's the only way that make them edible, otherwise. Otherwise? Yeah. You got nothing going on there. They're not gonna work. It'd be way too crunchy. The whole thing ate the whole heart. And he said, I did eat it. And he said that I have demons coming out. Coming out of where? Him. His pores.

[James Petragallo]

Allergic to hearts?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not sure. And that he knew, quote, the power that I owe.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know what he means.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know. He's got a gambling debt to some power, and he's got to get it taken care of pretty soon. He also admits not only to eating the heart and the brain and demons coming out and all sorts of that shit. He said he cut her apart, cooked parts of her body. He tried things both raw and cooked.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

See how that is now let's cook.

[James Petragallo]

It up a little fish raw.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I love an ahi tuna. But then you sear it. It's also good. I think that's what he's like. Let me do some left ventricle sear. See how that works? Yeah. Aorta searing. See how that goes? So that's horrifying, he said. And he told police that the way he got in, My God. He said he kicked the door open and he said this, quote, truth be told, she really wasn't all that scared, surprisingly. Like she knew she was gonna die. You Know what I mean?

[James Petragallo]

Yes, she knew, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's totally cool with it. No, no, she's cool with it. He said she just was totally fine, okay? She was trying to be calm, so maybe you would be calm because she's been around you and probably knows that's how you calm you down. Exactly. He said that he could. The reason he ate her brain, not only for the third eye, obviously, but, I mean, duh, you know, anybody can see that. But he could literally absorb her consciousness and gain supernatural powers by eating her brain.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, but this isn't getting you into the psychiatric unit. This is really bad stuff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I. I mean, he's pretty delusional. This is pretty fucking delusional, I would say. Yeah, but I don't know, man. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

He still knows right from wrong.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does he?

[James Petragallo]

I think he does. I think he knows it's wrong, but he's doing it still because, well, the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fact that he's overconscious, the fact that he told the cops that she wasn't there when they came, that says that he knows.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he knows.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, that says he's trying to cover it if when they got there, he said, hey, guys, come in. I gotta show you something. Look what I did. Isn't it great?

[James Petragallo]

Look at my art project.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And then I would be like. He goes, dude, I got a third eye and I got her consciousness. Why you call. Oh, cuffed. Okay. Yeah, sure. I mean, we'll go down to the station, I'll talk to you guys. Whatever you want to do. But you should see, it was totally cool. Guys should have been here. Then you'd be like, I already got the eye. Yeah, but just knowing. To me, the. The standard of just knowing right from wrong is not crazy. Or not crazy. It's not. Yeah, this is crazy. I don't think.

[James Petragallo]

This is certainly crazy behavior.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, this is crazy. He's crazy. I think we could all agree. Yeah, I don't. Wherever he goes is another story. But we can all agree he's fucking crazy. Let's start out with that. That's indisputable. Indisputable that he's crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Don't know if he believes this, if this is for real, but he does hear voices and shit, so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he has. For years.

[James Petragallo]

Years. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he has a brain injury and.

[James Petragallo]

He shot himself in the fucking brain.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This all makes sense. And he keeps it up. This whole. There is no breakdown. He never, like, takes a breath and he goes, hey, you guys believe in this shit? Like, this is just his constant state.

[James Petragallo]

I think I'm still unconvinced. I still think he's obviously. What he's saying is out of control. It's absurd.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I assure you he's not faking.

[James Petragallo]

He believes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He believes, absolutely believes it now that what we're saying is we don't know. I don't know if he's legally crazy or not, but just general. If you saw that person on the street corner acting like this, you go look at that crazy guy across the road. Yeah, that's. Yeah, you'd say that's a general speaking crazy, but legally, it's a whole other thing. Yeah. So he then went into detail of exactly what happened. He said that he stabbed her in the head, neck and body. Then he got an electric saw.

[James Petragallo]

Now he's going to do crazy things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now it's getting crazy.

[James Petragallo]

She's alive still.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think she's dead at this point. Finally, he gets an electric saw. And that is when he sawed her skull open and he removed part of her brain and ate it raw. Then he cooked some and ate some of that too.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he tried it both ways. Then he sawed open her chest, cut out her heart and ate that too, and part of her lung as well, just for good measure. So he goes, that's what he did here? Yeah. He said it all had a cosmic significance and all this shit's crazy, dude. He's out of his mind. He's out of his fucking mind. He knew what he did was wrong. That's the thing.

[James Petragallo]

Sure. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Number one, he knew what he did.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He knows what he did and he tried to cover it up. So it's not like he doesn't. He. It was so. He was so delusional. I don't remember doing it or something. Like, I didn't, you know. And he tried to cover it up. So that is nuts. The fact that he could describe his actions is a big deal. Yeah. It's like even if he was delusional while doing it, he knew what he was doing enough to do it and know about it, which means he's not.

[James Petragallo]

He's aware and alert while he's doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It, which makes him kind of sort of not legally crazy, I guess, in a way, or at least arguably at.

[James Petragallo]

That point, much more dangerous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. So at this point, the Utah police chief that did the whole first murder that he was involved in, they asked that person about it, and the police chief says it's very upsetting because we think of our families and to think that somebody else was victimized, it's very Disheartening to us in law enforcement. And it's not their fault. They didn't let him go and let him go to Indiana and not. Not watch him. Joseph's mom said this quote, this is Brenda. He has a bullet in his own head. Wouldn't you have some mental health issues?

[James Petragallo]

I suppose she's making good points.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A psychiatrist here, a Dr. Williams, said eating the body can represent someone who wants power over their victim. To keep them with you always. It's not an accident when what he chose to consume her thoughts and her heart, her brain and her passion. That's what he said. So he's making it even more of a thing. Now Utah and Indiana, obviously neither one of these states want the blame for this.

[James Petragallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they blame each other is how it works. That's how. Let's get some interstate squabbling going on.

[James Petragallo]

Because that'll help me the Spider man meme. But all right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For sure. They said that had the parole board received the information in Utah, it would have likely prompted a review and potentially extradited him back to Utah. Now the parole supervisor for Indiana, though, said that Utah was sent all information regarding each of his interactions with police, not just his arrests. Even they said everything was sent to them. I've read it myself. He said it's not uncommon for states to fail to follow up with issuing warrants for out of state offenders with parole violations. Because what are we gonna get this guy back here now? He's our problem. Even more, it's easier to just concentrate on the criminals we have within our borders and fuck it. So they said a warrant from Utah would have been the only law enforcement order that could have kept him in custody following the March strangulation arrest.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because it wasn't enough in Indiana, he didn't do enough to be held. It had to be Utah telling them to hold him. And they didn't. The Indiana parole officer said it's a horrific situation. But at the same time, I don't believe parole officers in either state could have prevented this. I don't know about that. I feel like the thing is that strangulation one, though he shouldn't have been violated for that because he's the victim there.

[James Petragallo]

It was self defense, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You know, and they also said the problem is his parole expired in July before all this happened. So they said even if it would have been revoked by from the strangulation thing, Utah would have had to at the very latest, free him by July 23rd of this year no matter what, because his sentence was up. So they said he'd still have been out now. He wouldn't have ever been in jail and stayed in there. So the prosecutor. The prose. Here's some shit about the prosecutor who did the bail with him. And by the way, his mom won't talk. Okay? Now, the prosecutor who agreed to the bail reduction originally, remember that bail reduction so he could get out on the last charge, he resigned.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's like, I did bad there.

[James Petragallo]

I don't want to talk about it anymore.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's not talk. I'm going to have to resign. A lot of people asking a lot of questions, and I'm going to.

[James Petragallo]

Too many.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Too many questions. Yeah, a little too many for me. So Brenda mom would not say who supplied the $500 that fulfilled the $5,000 court cash bond at the time, he. She just said it's between me, her, and him. Referencing a dead woman.

[James Petragallo]

What the fuck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not between now. It's just between you and him because one of you three is dead. She said that local police could have prevented the death of Tammy Jo Blanton. She noted that local police responded to a call for service at the home that morning just hours before the body was found. And she said, this is the mom. She said, quote, they could have took him in. I'm kind of. I'm kind of disgusted in them. In them. Not my son who ate a woman. I'm mad at the. I'm disgusted in them. They really didn't do anything.

[James Petragallo]

It's their fault.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow. She said that the recent arrest of her son and the death. Death of Tammy Jo is a huge loss for the two close families that had regular outings together. And she said nobody won out of this deal. No, no one. Who the fuck said anybody won? What are you talking about? This. Brenda's whacked, man.

[James Petragallo]

Like, she's out of her mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know if she's whacked, but she says some whacked out shit. Like she doesn't seem to get the gravity of other people have kids, too.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, she doesn't want to. It hurts to admit that maybe you failed as a parent.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, I think at this point, it's time to put your cards on the table and go, I have nothing. Yeah, I know. I've been.

[James Petragallo]

I keep betting three, a king and a two and a ten. I win.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I keep betting. And I should have folded fucking five bets ago. I get that. But I got nothing.

[James Petragallo]

I kept calling, expecting everybody to fold. You guys didn't fold. And now I got.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And I can't beat a pair of fours, so I got nothing. That guy won with a pair of fours.

[James Petragallo]

They're all different colors. Shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shit. That's not good, is it? And there's only four colors. And I got five cards. How does that work? I don't know, but it happened.

[James Petragallo]

I got a blue one, though.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somehow. Somehow that came out. So she then said, I wish to God I could take everything back, Meaning she wished she had never introduced Tammy to her son. Yes. You were the one who introduced these people. And then all this shit.

[James Petragallo]

She's responsible for their being around each other at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. And apparently she was at the scene that night when he got kicked out of the yard, so seems like she could have. I don't know. Anyway, she said that she knew that her son had many run ins with the law, and so did Tammy Jo. She said Tammy Jo knew about that and in fact, had just picked him up from jail a couple months ago. So she definitely knew he got in trouble sometimes. She characterized them as a, quote, real good relationship. Wow. Leading up to the night she died, obviously then she said something just went haywire.

[James Petragallo]

There's that one moment. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Understatement of the year. Something went haywire. Haywire is like something silly happened.

[James Petragallo]

It's really trivializing. What he.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You cut half of somebody's organs out and cooked and ate them. That's a completely different kind of haywire. Man, that was a bunch of hullabaloo. Yeah, it's just a bunch of malarkey, this crap. The charges are murder, obviously. Level four felony burglary, and level three felony rape as well. Even though he said he didn't have sex with her. That's what they're gonna. They're saying that he raped her. So during the arraignment. This is the arraignment, okay? This is just the beginning of it. They announce him, Joseph Albert Oberhansley, and he says, that's not my name. Obviously, you've got the wrong guy. Okay, not my name.

[James Petragallo]

What's your name?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, his real name that you don't know, obviously, is Zeus Brown.

[James Petragallo]

Okay, Zeus Brown.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He gave Zeus a last name, and he gave him Brown. Something real simple. Zeus Smith. That's what Zeus married Judge Joe's sister, Zeus Brown. And he said, yes, I'm Zeus. I'm the Zeus Brown who played for the Ravens and the Cleveland Browns. Don't you know me?

[James Petragallo]

Oh, is that what he said now?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He says he's a professional football player named Zeus Brown.

[James Petragallo]

He's in the NFL for years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do you remember me? And they go. You know, they go through all the things that he. And he said. I don't know if I'm a US citizen or not.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's born there, lived there his whole life, never left the country. Not sure if he's a citizen or not. Okay. Tammy's family is. Imagine these poor fucking people.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know what I mean? Jesus Christ, man. This is horrible. Tammy Jo's mother, Linda, spoke to the media for the first time a few months, about six months after the death here. And she said this is the first time she's been able to do it. And she said she was a daughter, she was a sister, she was an aunt, she was a friend. She was loved by many. What a contagious laugh she had. She was a happy person, and she tried to help this fool. And this is what happened. Yep. She said that she actually she had met Joseph while he was dating Tammy Jo. She said she knew something was wrong with him, but couldn't pinpoint exactly what it was.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time myself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And we have hindsight. Imagine just at the time. Holy shit. We have so much hindsight. Court documents and everything else. And I'm still real confused. So there's. He's was manipulative enough to be able to present himself as not insane at the time. So when you meet him casually, he didn't come across as obviously dangerous. She said, this is Mom. We were just getting close again, meaning Tammy Jo and Mom. And I didn't want to say nothing. I didn't want to tell her, don't date this guy. And then she doesn't talk to me again for five years. She said she was 47 years old. She'll always be my little girl, but she was grown. I mean, what could you say? That's the truth.

[James Petragallo]

You can't tell her what to do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can't force. She's 46 years old, man. And it's wild. By the way, in court, he also said they said something about the facts of the case. And Joseph yelled out, yeah, right. And pigs fly, too. I'm sorry? Zeus Brown yelled out, yeah, right. Pigs fly, too. And Linda said she has no patience for what prosecutors thought might be strategic behavior, meaning what he's doing. Because they're telling her, we don't know if this is real or not. And she says, well, I have no patience for this behavior because he's lying. She said, there's nothing insane about him. He's just evil. She called him, an evil monster who doesn't deserve to be breathing air right now. Tammy Jo's father said, I wish they'd kill him tomorrow. I want him gone. I want him dead. We want it to stop. We have enough problems listening to the news. We just want it to stop. I think anybody would feel like that, right? I think that's pretty normal. State decides they will go for the death penalty on this one.

[James Petragallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Based on mainly the heinousness of everything. I mean, they said that it's intentionally committed during a burglary, number one. So that's an aggravator. The murder was intentionally committed during a rape, they're saying also. And the dismemberment and the general heinous nature of the crime.

[James Petragallo]

There's a lot. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Three factors there. Now, of all people, of all organizations you wouldn't think you'd be hearing from right now. PETA has something to say about this whole thing. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has something to say about this.

[James Petragallo]

I guess people are animals, too. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no, no. That's not their angle at all.

[James Petragallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. This is fucking wild. Okay. They wrote a letter to Brian Meyer, who's the acting sheriff of Clark county, requesting that Joseph be restricted to an all vegan diet.

[James Petragallo]

Why? Oh, because he ate people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They say that this is crazy. They wrote only vegan food could diminish that bloodlust and might even help protect staff and neighboring inmates.

[James Petragallo]

No, that's not how make this person really nuts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not how food works. It doesn't give or take away Bloodlust. What the fuck are you talking about? So the sheriff is pissed. The sheriff said it's bad enough when you lose someone to natural causes, let alone dealing with a loss. This violence that Peter would do. This is unfathomable to me. It's an insult to injury. It's unforgivable. And they've lost all credibility with me. Described the letter as a cruel joke, but thought it was a cruel joke at first. He said he thought it was somebody sending it on there, like as a joke. It wasn't real. But then he said. When I realized it was real, my first thought was to not even respond because it's ridiculous, the whole thing. This isn't the first time Pete has done this, by the way. They made a similar request in a murder case in Tennessee and they say that doing so here would be acceptable because of the cannibalistic nature of the crime. He doesn't need meat. PETA spokesman said, we really want to Take a situation that's a tragedy and make it into something positive to reduce the total violence in the world. Dude, you are so far down. This is not even. Wow. They said it is his contention that everyone is rightfully horrified by this act and switching to a vegan diet would reduce violence and jail costs out of it. It's. No, that wouldn't. A vegan diet, too, would be way more expensive than the shit they feed them in there.

[James Petragallo]

Get back to throwing ink on rich women in fur.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There you go. That's your. That's your lane. That's perfect.

[James Petragallo]

Stay over there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Don't worry about what prisoners eat. But the sheriff said the sensitive nature of the case made the letter inappropriate. He said, I can't believe they would say, would be so insensitive to the victim and her family. So is he competent to stand trial?

[James Petragallo]

It's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Court doesn't stand trial.

[James Petragallo]

It's so hard to call.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They find him incompetent to stand trial.

[James Petragallo]

For now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. That doesn't mean forever.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. That means we could maybe drug him and make him competent.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Exactly. That means they put you in an institution, drug you for a few months, and then bring you back in court looking all fucking spiffed up, shine you up and put you back out there. I see him like. Like licking their hand and, like, you know, rubbing it, getting his hair, patting the cowlicks down. There you go. Yeah. Ready to see here. So it's nine months in a hospital. He is, quote, restored to competency.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. They're so good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nine months.

[James Petragallo]

Amazing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Amazing. So he is then ruled incompetent again due to signs of schizophrenia and delusions. That's in 2017.

[James Petragallo]

So the nine months didn't take.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Didn't take. He's out. He was good for a minute, but then he's still crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Reset. He's nuts again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's it. Oh, shit. I unplugged it and everything. I unplugged it, plugged it back in and did a whole thing.

[James Petragallo]

And now it's worse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's worse now. I lost all my apps too. Fuck. He's committed to a psychiatric facility for treatment again. October 2018. Another year goes by. He's found competent again.

[James Petragallo]

Great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

By a state psychiatrist here. They say that. But his competency can still be contested by his defense attorneys here, they said. Which would then make another hearing where a judge would make a final decision. So they said. This matter has been going on for four years now, and it's a high time that the victim's family Saw some justice done. That's what the prosecutor said in their motion. Attorneys noted a complete breakdown in this is his attorneys now. Defense attorneys in a motion note their complete breakdown in communication with Joseph, who appeared suspicious, paranoid, uncommunicative and agitated during all of their interactions. Because that's part of being sane and competent. I should say not sane because it's not crazy or sane. It's competent and incompetent. Part of being competent is being able to help in your defense.

[James Petragallo]

Sure, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If defense wants you to help and you don't have it, then they can't. There's nothing they can do for you at that point. So he finally. Joseph finally files. Apparently, they initially filed a notice that he would plead the insanity defense. However, there is an agreement between the two parties that they're gonna go to trial. He is not allowed to use the definitive insanity defense, but the state cannot seek the death penalty. That's the thing. They seek life without parole. He doesn't use the insanity defense, which is a great deal for the state because they're really 50. 50 on if he pleads the insanity defense. Judging by all of this in front of them, he might get it. You know what I mean? So they'd rather. Rather have it this way. So they agree on this. Clark county prosecutor Jeremy Mull said in a statement that while he supports the death penalty in the case, he decided to withdraw it because of Joseph's mental health, which could create the chance for reversal. Also, he could very easily have an appeals court say, this guy's crazy as shit. What are you people doing? They said because of the psychiatric evidence that's been produced and put on the record in this case, I believe that it would be virtually impossible to see any death penalty in this case upheld in the federal courts. He's too crazy. That's the thing. They wouldn't uphold it. They said further, pursuing the death penalty in this case in light of the psychiatric evidence would present a substantial risk that any guilty verdict itself, in addition to the death penalty, could be reversed. So we could lose everything on this. They could say, you shouldn't even walk free. Oh, he could go to an institution till he's sane enough to walk free. Yes, that's what could happen if they don't do this. If they just do life without parole and he can't plead insanity. Then it's all. You know what you're getting? Then it's all based on. Here's the evidence. He said he ate this lady's heart. Her heart's missing. Here he is. That's what all the case is about at that point. He also said that removing the death penalty would save an estimated $1 million for the state.

[James Petragallo]

Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And add considerably to the several hundred thousands of dollars spent thus far and significantly reduce the number of prospective jurors. As in a death penalty case, you have to have so many jurors because a lot of them are immediately disqualified for being two, four or two against the death penalty. So they said now it'll be 200 instead of 2000, which will save the court shitloads of time and money. Tammy Jo Blanton's family agrees with the decision and prefers proceeding with life without parole as opposed to the uncertainty of the death penalty. They're sane, rational people. Even though they would like to kill him with their bare hands. They understand how the world works and they're mature enough to accept that this is better for everyone rather than there are some people who don't have that. So September 2019, here's the trial moved to northern Indiana because of all the publicity, the court ordered that because he withdrew his insanity defense, he could not present any mental health defense evidence in the guilt phase of the trial. If you're convicted, you could bring it up in the penalty phase as mitigators, but you can't bring it up as a, you know, I'm not guilty. Problem is the circuit judge here has to declare a mistrial on the first day of testimony. Oh yes. A prosecution witness immediately brings up both Joseph's past drug use and time in prison, which are not allowed. And they said this is shit. The prosecutor said they specifically told them not to fucking talk about. And it's the first fucking thing that came up. And it's an immediate mistrial, damn it. They said that could very easily prejudice the jury. They said the witness was a close friend of Tammy Joe. That said Tammy Joe had told her in a previous conversation that drugs motivated him to commit his heinous acts before the first murder. Now the judge said a simple admonishment to disregard the comments would be insufficient and certainly would not clear the prejudices created by the witnesses testimony. The jury had been selected from Hamilton county, which is 120 miles north. And it was a real pain in the ass. And now it's all over with.

[James Petragallo]

Whoops.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The prosecutor said he insisted he instructed all witnesses on what they could and could not include in testimony and said as unfortunate as this event was today, I don't think it's going to get us very far off track. I do expect to have this trial going in September and by September sometime to have a verdict in this case. He also said there was concerns that if the trial had continued, the verdict would have been overturned by the appellate court. So he was happy about the mistrial. He said, the last thing in the world I can do is put this family through another four or five years of delays trying to get another trial date. So if I've got to wait a week or two weeks behind schedule, that's fine. The defense attorney said that while the judge made the correct decision in declaring a mistrial, it was still disappointing. It's just because you're ready for the game. You got your uniform on and the power goes out and there's no game tonight. You're like, oh, fuck, man. I was all warmed up from three. This is crazy. Yeah, he said you feel like you were ready to go and suddenly you can't go anymore. And so it's very much a letdown. Totally. So August 20th, August of 2020. This family has had to wait a long fucking time.

[James Petragallo]

Way too long.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is six years. They've been waiting years. Six years already. That's crazy. A second attempt to empanel a jury failed when insufficient jurors were available. That's not the only crazy thing he also made. Joseph made really crazy outbursts and tried to fire his attorney. During the proceedings, a defense attorney handed the judge a written letter, handwritten letter by Joseph, which was filed under seal. Then Joseph spoke up and said, quote, they're trying to control my thoughts. They're trying to control my mind. About his lawyers. The judge told him he needed to work with his attorneys. So he also, during this also, he contended again, two black guys killed her, not me. And then asked the judge to read his letter. Please read my letter. And he said, I'm just so tired of dealing with all this stuff and being locked in this cage. I just want to be executed.

[James Petragallo]

I just want to do it, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just get it over with. So, wow, that is crazy. He also, when the court read the allegations of rape, he said that they were, quote, bull crap, lies. Bull crap, bull crap, lies. See, he did not mature past 17.

[James Petragallo]

No, he didn't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bullcrap. Lies. During his 10 minute tirade, he claimed that Tammy Joe was, quote, getting high and drunk and texting a bunch of bullcrap.

[James Petragallo]

What the fuck does that mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know. The defense argued that the text messages from Tammy Jo claiming Joseph had raped her and that she was afraid of him, should be suppressed. Oh, yes, that was the assault on her. So Joseph told the judge that he had uncovered new evidence from his cell. I got a miracle.

[James Petragallo]

There's a lot of ins and outs, a lot of what have yous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm telling you this.

[James Petragallo]

You're not privy to the new information, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It points to my innocence and suggests that detectives had missed the murder weapon. A murder weapon insisting it could not have been the little cheap knife investigators found. But all the wounds line up with it. Perfect. It's mainly the saw that he started cutting her up with was the problem here. Defense attorneys couldn't. They had to withdraw the insanity defense. Obviously, the defense. The defendant told the judge also that he felt using the defense would admit guilt and is unlikely to work. He's like, I'm not going to say I'm crazy because that means I'm saying I did it. That's not going to work anyway. He says, what is the mental illness disorder that I'm supposed to have? I don't like being portrayed in that light. I don't suffer from any mental illness.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's fucking crazy.

[James Petragallo]

He's out of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To stand. It's one thing to be like, I'm crazy. Look how crazy I am. I'm Zeus. You don't know me. I play for the Browns. But to be like, I play for the Browns. I'm Zeus. I ate a third eye. Stop calling me crazy. I'm not fucking crazy. This is real. The difference between crazy and not crazy is understanding what you're doing.

[James Petragallo]

I think knowing what you're doing or not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

After, as he left court, he tried to speak with news reporters. As the deputies dragged him away, he wanted to have a full interview. He was going to.

[James Petragallo]

Welcome to my press conference. Thank you for showing up today.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Imagine how excited they were. They're like, oh, shit. He's gonna say crazy shit.

[James Petragallo]

Please.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Camera, Camera. So the judge declares a mistrial after the jury pool. Contamination here from the courtroom behavior and from the media exposure. And he is declared incompetent once again.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he's ruled incompetent. His defense attorney said, this is absolutely the right thing. From the nature of the case itself, the accusations and just Joseph's behavior both in and out of. There's really no question that he's incompetent.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's put in a institution. Competency restored.

[James Petragallo]

Miracle, we got him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So here's a second attempt at a second trial.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. So really the third attempt at having a trial here. All right. Jury selection started. They did all of that because of this attention, they had to get jury from Louisville, Kentucky. They're not even from Indiana. Indiana. They had to get people. Oh, no, I'm sorry. They got people from Indianapolis to come here, which is 120 miles away. After the jury selection was finished, they brought him in. The news reported this, quote, as he's brought in to enter the trial here, Joseph, he said, quote, I did not kill Tammy Blanton. Two black guys did.

[James Petragallo]

Right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what he's heard saying out of in the courtroom or on the way into the courtroom. The prosecutor told the juries that during opening statements that Joseph butchered Tammy. Like you wouldn't kill a livestock animal, right? Which is fair. She said. He said the final moments of Tammy's life. She locked herself in the bathroom in an attempt to save her life. However, there's evidence that he had forced the door open. During the videotaped interview. He told the cops that he kicked the door open and said, quote, truth be told, she really wasn't all that scared, surprisingly. Like she knew she was gonna die. You know what I mean? And the prosecutor said in her last moment, she wasn't gonna give him the pleasure of seeing her scared, which very well might be. And she might also thought, if I stay calm, I can, yeah, finesse my way out of this. You know, the defense here, they're not allowed to mention sanity or state of mind. But they asked the jury, rather than mention sanity or state of mind, legal questions. He said, is a person who does this thinking right, Their brain working on all cylinders there? Is it clicking?

[James Petragallo]

We don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said, when he eats the brain in the heart of his girlfriend. All I want you to do is keep an open mind. He said, the pro.

[James Petragallo]

Dude, you can't say that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's why I laugh.

[James Petragallo]

An open mind that's open every time. Why do they do it?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why do they do it every time?

[James Petragallo]

Open, you son of a bitch.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a million other ways to say that. I just like you to be, you know, to listen to all sides open, to consider any kind of both sides of the case open mind. Why would every juror should have went, ooh, ouch, man. He said, the prosecutor told you about a few statements, select evidence, but there's gonna be a whole not lot more. Her chest had been cut open. The heart was removed, the heart was eaten. I'm sorry that I have to go over this, but that's what the evidence is. Think about the process and say to yourself, is this someone who's thinking right his he thought that someone was after him. Okay, this is crazy.

[James Petragallo]

Someone said, stop and dismember this woman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And here's the fucked up part is they said this made a real weird situation with the jury hearing left and right from witnesses and witnessing it themselves. Incredibly bizarre behavior that he's done without any context about talk. There's no shrinks testify, no psychological context, just here, wacky shit going on, which is real weird.

[James Petragallo]

Here's a guy that does bizarre shit, okay, explaining why he's doing that bizarre shit. That's a guilty man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But they definitely know there's something up because they hear not, not about the murder. They hear about other weird shitty did and Zeus and all this stuff because they play his interrogations and stuff and they're like, well, that's not right. That doesn't seem right, right?

[James Petragallo]

Normal guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not normal. The physical evidence, the crime scene and the interrogation, the presence at Tammy Joe's home, I mean, it looks like he's guilty here, obviously, but now this is his first time appearing in court like, you know, in normal clothes. He's wearing a suit and everything, so he looks semi same, you know what I mean? But they showed the jury a videotaped interview in which he told the police that she wasn't all that scared and all that kind of shit. So two of Tammy's friends testified that she was so terrified of Joseph that she moved out of her home and stayed with a friend for several days after her father changed the lock. She returned home, but assured the witnesses that she had the police on speed dial, so she was terrified of him. The detective, one of the detectives here, testifies. And during this, Joseph just starts talking to the judge at an hour. He spoke out twice, saying the testimony was speculation of this detective. Speculation, pure speculation, full of shit. Sorry. The judge cleared the courtroom for about 15 minutes before the trial resumed and had to, you know, come back to it. Now a friend of hers also testified that Tammy Jo told her that Joseph had raped her several days before the murder, which is why she kicked him out and ended the whole fucking thing and was done with him. So the detective was asked, this is real weird. The detective was asked if a rape victim, if rape victims typically shower or wash themselves after being raped.

[James Petragallo]

Hmm.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And that's when Joseph shouted out that the detective was speculating. You ever been raped, detective? If not speculation. Not that he hasn't talked to 100 rape victims probably. And, you know, he probably would know that, so. Jesus Christ. Joseph also said that he was confused when he Confessed that morning. He didn't know what was going on and that he was hit in the head at Tammy's home hours earlier by said two black guys.

[James Petragallo]

Sure. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he had all sorts of shit going on. Yeah. In closing, the prosecutor said she suffered so many indignities that night. She was terrified. She was stabbed, she was dismembered, she was eaten, and she was raped. And the justice for each of those acts of indignities is important. If it's proven, it's what justice demands. So the verdict comes in here. It's a lot of. They can't find him insane, by the way. That's not even on the table. So it's just guilty or not guilty or not. Yeah. Not a lot of suspense here. Except for one thing. He is found guilty of murder.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He is found guilty of burglary.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not guilty of rape.

[James Petragallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because they don't know whether he raped her that night as part of the act, I guess. Or they're trying to use the rape and murder together.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A different occasion and they have improved it. All they have is hearsay from a friend, which is not proof of it, so. And some texts and some text. Again, not proof of anything. He never said, sorry, I raped you, which would. That might have been some proof.

[James Petragallo]

It's a he said, he said, she said thing at that point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. And he then cut her fucking brain out, so she can't say much, which sucks. So he's gonna. Yeah. The acquittal on the rape charge eliminated one of the aggravating factors that they hope to use in seeking life without parole. But they still had murder during a burglary, and the heinous nature of the crime with the dismemberment and all that. In Indiana, dismemberment is obviously considered a heinous act. So during the sentencing phase, the state points out the evidence presented in the guilt phase, and they argue all the aggravating circumstances, which seem pretty clear. He told jurors, quote, because of what happened on September 11th. Don't say it like that. That makes it sound totally weird. You're like, there's bin Laden responsible for this. What's going on? Because of what happened on September 11, because of his actions, he should never, ever walk free again. These aggravators outweigh the mitigating factors of his mental illness, they say. Now, his defenses, they present to mental health experts and claiming and claimed as mitigating circumstances that he had acted under extreme mental disturbance and that mental illness impaired his capacity to appreciate the Criminality of his conduct or to conform to the conduct of the law. Okay. Defense team presented. Their goal is to convince the jury that his mental illness should be considered mitigating evidence. That would argue against the life without parole, which is very interesting. The problem is they have to acknowledge that what he did is fucking crazy. But also, you know, you could also just. They could take that and go, oh, so he admits it and he's just evil. Okay.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Either way, you're fucked. He's just a bad guy. They argued he acted under extreme mental disturbance. They presented evidence that his mental illness had impaired his capacity to appreciate everything. It wasn't an insanity defense, but it's a punishment defense. Here. The mental health experts also testified about his traumatic brain injury from his suicide attempt. Ongoing psychiatric symptoms, including auditory hallucinations, grandiose delusions, and the impact of his untreated mental illness on his behavior. Basically, they paint a picture of a guy who's fucking a mess. His brain is fucked. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's got brain trauma. He's crazy. Anyway, Joseph gets up and talks and says, he didn't kill Tammy.

[James Petragallo]

Well, who did?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, we know two black guys. He said he didn't kill Tammy. He loved her. And what happened to her was, quote, a shame. Real shame, that was.

[James Petragallo]

It's a damn shame.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The jury takes about 45 minutes to come back here and they say, you, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole.

[James Petragallo]

Terrific.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Eat all the dicks is what they tell him. Now he's going to appeal this based on a jury verdict form. Oh, okay. The court instructed the jury that before it could recommend a life without parole sentence, it had to find one or both aggravating circumstances proven behind a reasonable doubt and that any aggravating circumstances outweighed by any mitigating circumstances. The jury was instructed the court would provide verdict forms. The purpose of the forms was threefold. First, to show whether the jury found each alleged aggravating circumstance proven. Second, to show whether any aggravating circumstances it found outweighed the mitigating circumstances. And third, to show whether it recommended life without parole or a term of years sentence. Despite the instructions, the jury did not receive a verdict form for weighing the aggravating and mitigating circumstances. They didn't give them the right paperwork. The jury returned for return forms indicating it found both aggravating circumstances proven and recommended the life without parole, but not the middle part of they outweigh the mitigators, which is very important. So the trial court noted verbally that the jury had found the aggravating circumstances proven. At the hearing of sentencing. The trial court found sufficient evidence to support the jury's decision and impose the sentence sentence. He argues, though, that the jury, by lacking the jury form for weighing the aggravating and mitigating circumstances, Failed to make a determination on the issue. And thus the court lacked the authority to impose that sentence. That's part of it. He further claims that the imposition of life without parole sentence without these necessary jurors jury findings. Violated his right to due process under the constitution. He seeks a revision of his sentence, Asserting that it was inappropriate. Because he committed the crimes due to severe mental illness. The court says that Joseph himself characterized the crimes as gruesome, horrific and brutal. They say his brief points to no aspects of his crimes. Which might alleviate their severity. Indeed, no positive light can be cast on them. The crimes involving dismembering and eating parts the. Of. Of the victim's body were extreme. They were inflicted on a frightened former partner. Who had locked him out of her home. Like the murder, sexual assault and dismemberment we reviewed in another case, the offenses in this case were, quote, beyond horrendous. Yet the case does not present the exceptional and extraordinary circumstances in which such consideration is warranted. They say although Joseph acted under delusions created by his mental illness, he did not show a restraint or lack of brutality, nor any regard for human life. They said he also acted deviously. He tried to visit her at work dressed like an employee. What? He tried to sneak in dressed like one of them, not in his usual clothes. And thus gained access to her workplace. During the crimes, he left his cell phone at his mother's house. So couldn't be tracked there. He lied in an attempt to mislead friends who were worried about Sammy Jo's safety When they called. After being moved along by police from Blanton's home, He parked his car nearby and returned. Then lied to the police and told him two black guys killed Blanton. He maintained that at trial, too, his deceptive behavior, his efforts to shift the blame, aggravate the nature of the offense. Also, they say he offers no record of positive characteristics. Character traits. They say we find a lack of redeeming character traits of a positive nature. They said he suffered the loss of close members of his family during his youth. But usually evidence of a difficult childhood. Is entitled to little, if any mitigating weight. The suicides of his father and half brother. Have marked a significant turning point in his life. But that doesn't mitigate the subsequent record of violence against his own mother and intimate partners. He lives with several mental disorders that affect him at the time of his crimes. Yet his juvenile record of delinquent acts goes back to the time before his mental illness even happened. So he's always been a dick. Now he's just a crazy dick.

[James Petragallo]

Right now he's even worse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah. They said likewise. His attack on his girlfriend and mother predated the first recorded signs of psychosis. That's when he shot himself and caused them, they said. We cannot ignore the fact that his second partner, whom he killed, is the third person he's attacked with deadly force, meaning his mother in there, too. He also had a strangulation charge and other charges pending. That's not. I'll let him slide on that one. And his Christ has history of criminal conduct. Ways against relief denied, sir. Keep on keeping on. And last we saw him, here he is. His number is 249876. And he was at the Newcastle Correctional Facility at 1000 Van Nuys Road, P.O. box E in New Castle, Indiana, 47362. Just in case you want to, like, write him a letter and tell him you can hear his thoughts. Something weird like that. Something to really freak him out.

[James Petragallo]

I hear what's going on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hey, Zeus. Either that or just, like, start asking him about, like, the, like, 2012 brown season and how it went and, like, you know, was he disappointed in the losing record and was he for or against the drafting of Johnny Manziel, things like that. He might want to write him a.

[James Petragallo]

Message and tell him you got his message, that you. That he wanted you to write.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's up? I got. I got it through the toaster. Are we cool? So there you go. Everybody there is Jeffersonville, Indiana, and one of that's one of the craziest fucking things we've ever talked about all across the board there. So it is insane. If you like that episode and like all the stories we tell you, please do me a favor and do us a favor. I should say get on whatever app you're listening on, give us five stars. It helps a tremendous amount. We don't know why, but it helps drive the show up the charts. More people see it and more people listen to it, which is good for everybody. So do that and keep hanging out with us. Also, follow on social media Smalltown Murder on Instagram at Smalltown pod on Facebook patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of your bonus materials. And I'm telling you, there's a lot. Anybody $5 a month or above. A lot of you unbelievably have upped your donations since we added the ad free. So thank you for that. You're gonna get. You're the best. You're gonna get hundreds and hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription, you can binge new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one Small town murder. You'll get it all. This week we're gonna talk about Amy Bradley for Small town murder, which will be a lot of fun. The young lady who disappeared on the cruise ship and they think she might be alive. And I have some theories on that. I'm sure you have theories. I'm sure, sure everyone has theories. And we're going to talk about all those theories and it'll add on to the poop cruise because it's like, what could happen worse? Well, this could happen worse.

[James Petragallo]

It could get worse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Basically, it's our month of don't go on cruise ships. Public service announcements.

[James Petragallo]

Cruise ships are the worst.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So do that. And you're going to get in addition to all of those bonus episodes all the time, you're going to get all of our shows, crime and sports, your stupid opinions and Small Town Murder. And Small Town Murder Express. All ad free as well, all through your Patreon donations.

[James Petragallo]

What a deal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's the best deal we could possibly give you. We have nothing else to give, really. I mean, blood I'll give you. I have, you know, only like a pint a day or whatever, but I'll give blood on.

[James Petragallo]

It's useless. But I'll give you semen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can have it. I mean, do stuff with it. Just don't put it at a crime scene, please. So do that and come back and keep hanging out with us all the time. But definitely Patreon. Get yourself some Patreon. Do yourself a favor. Patreon.com crimeinsports and now I would like to hear the names of the people who are so sane, who never would come to our house and eat our brains and hearts and lungs. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best fucking people that we have here.

[James Petragallo]

This week's executive producer, Jamie Kadrovich, Katherine Giles. Giles. Alana Zamel. Thank you again. Zamel. Zamel. And Gary Creeder's Happy birthday. And Brian, thank you so much. Brian Burton. No last name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank you, Brian. Without your last name. We appreciate you.

[James Petragallo]

Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows. Duncan Z. Peters. Probably not. Liz Vasquez. Janice Hill. Georgia Liptak. Hey, I Know her? Ashley Eichler. Eichler. Maybe. Rob Nash. Rob Nash? No. Oh, no, never mind. Allison with no last name. Joe Sallow, Wendy Gorski, Jeff Orbeck, Rebecca Zavala, Jessica Williams, Melissa Cabin Caban, Lisa Early Earl. It's Earl, like Steve. Melissa, Melissa B. Ethan Banky, Daniel with no last name. Krista Gregg, Ryan Pizzuto, Brandy Cameron, Jeremy Rice, Amanda with no last name. Tim with no last name. Roger with no last name. Anina Daw Distin, Kelly Jo May Jake with no last name. Evangeline Maynard, Ian Ray Lauren with no last name. Rebecca Ridden Hour, Leo.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My murderer.

[James Petragallo]

I don't know what that means. K and R. The letters K and R. Hayden Morris, Danny Stewart. Tamal. Tamal. Tamale. Tamal 99. Mary Price, Susan Sobosinski, Jess King, Wanda Shotsburg Gray. Felicia Roach, Brian Moore, Tiffany Wright, Benjamin Jones, Christian Delgado, John Grant Ash with no last name. Sophie Cooney. Max Hubley is an idiot. Hubley perhaps. I don't think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's be specific about who's an idiot here.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's probably Hubley. Tanya Hamilton. It might be Steve Baron, Holly La Zaborowski. Anonymous. Just a random person that wants to remain anonymous. Peter with no last name. Aaron Flight, David Varner, Colin Wyren, Vinnie the Cocaine King. Vishnu Nish.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, well then. Well, thank you for your giving your cocaine money.

[James Petragallo]

Don't arrest that man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, if he sell. If you're selling cocaine, you should donate more probably. You have plenty of money.

[James Petragallo]

Leah with no last name. Elisa with no last name. Denal Owen Vale with no last name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Melvin. Not too good for drug money, people. We're not too good for drug money. We will take any illegal proceeds. We don't care. We'll use this for good.

[James Petragallo]

Send coke. I don't care.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We don't want coke. But we'll sell it.

[James Petragallo]

Give me the money. Dana Wilcher, Courtney Franklin, Amelia Bant Bond. Stacy Meacham, Tim S. Mark Donaldson, Catherine Belle Neve, Christina Cawthron, Michelle Richards, Doc Bob, Lisa W. Jennifer Pernia, Preston Richards, Caleb Eversole, Megatron, Jen and Hattie, Emily Merton Jordan with no last name. Matt Rogers, Zach Nikolai, Katie Hayes, Blake Harrell. Harrell. Uh, Justin Wilson, Kathy Frazier, Chris Mosley, Amanda Stout, Whitney Beldich Blick. Uh, Amanda White Weisbrod. Uh, Rice, Broad, Cole Lee, Jeremy with no last name. Megan Davis, Josh Benji Bengay. Uh, Nancy Beckman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Which one?

[James Petragallo]

Uh, Brianna Burnett, Carly Edwards, Ashley Hicks, Naomi Belt, Jordan Gerlach, Brian Bouch, Sarah Wilhelm, Beth with no last name. Sabrina with no last name. Yellow Jaybird. Plebe. Pleb. Pleb. Bob Violet Halloran, Susan with no last name Cameron Holland, Denae Smith, SB Debandit Espy Stolen SP Reward Stolen Espy demanded Kendra Seeger, SMA Seigersma, Mike Shearer, Mitchell Holmes, Donna Sauls Lack with no Lake with no last name Dave Butts, Rudy with no last name Tammy Kinison, Sam's kid Joanna Dresser, Mario Zara Zaragoza. Jessica Hatter, Brian Hopkins, Sasha plus five Abby Smith, Hildu. Run. Oh, boy. Sigurdota Kavar Ran. Scrotum Face Sam. I know that one. Adam Graham, Heather Deonda, Nora Moen. Moen. Moen. Like faucets. Sandra Gammon, Josh Picot. Belligerent behaviorist Cody with no last name Chantelle Hamill. Chantelle Hammel, Carrie with no last name Mickey Hardy, Brandon Durra, Kathleen Kathleen Smith, Angela Bartlett, Shelly Nance, Deaclan Delaney. JT Met Mate Discar Driskerd Jorgensen, Shay Hansen, Leaf Blizzard, Carrie Spike Sipic, Summer Walker, Drizzy Dorden. All right, Casey. Nope. That's Stacy Mitchell. Carly Vieira, Nicole Ferris. Mr. Saturday Brett Caldwell, Tina Schlingman, Kate with no last name Jeremy Brenton Parker Jones, Daniel Vincent, Becca with no last name Virginia Bacon, Suzanne with no last name Sonya Walker, Crystal K. Jeff with no last name Ryan T. Tamara Crane, Ralph Castaneda, Bobby Potoff, Christina Olson, John Gorman, Carolyn Hyde, Justin Black, Sierra Savadas, Visceroi Burrito Cindy Licklock, Whitlock Jesus Barbie Shannon Roseanne.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Change your name, sweetheart.

[James Petragallo]

Sherry D.C. michael Bjorklund, Diane Slaughter, Linda Sandifer, Carrie Flanagan, Katie Manier, Andrea Oliver, Kiana Smith, Luzanne Suzanne Lebel, Sigmund Sigmund Matt Roselle, Brando Barn Brand Flake, Trisha Topping, Tyler Eller, Angela B. Monty Prinse, Eliza. Nope. Elaine Barnes, Chad McClure, Renee Burdett, Jacob with no last name them home T News Hannah Montague, Robert Fleming, Scott Silberman, Monica Quinn, Jessica Berkley, Spencer Majeski, Luke McDonald, Sylvia Hernandez, Tyler Rako, Cory McGoodall. Sam with no last name Sammy FedEx, Lori Bullock, Justin Meyer. Tom with no last name Suzanne Harris. Susan Harris, Jane Shea, Megan Haggerty, Jen Strauss, W.M. rice, Marilyn Canoe, John Jason Boyd, Kayla with no last name Susan Wolfenbarger, Mark Nixon Kosuka with no last name Jessica Walters. Marco. Oh. Marcos King Koza Queen goes. Scotty Midget. No, it's Magette. Right. That's my get. That's not Midget. Slade. Garrett T With no last name. Hail Nimrod, Tawny Tony Mago Magoff, Tharina Lee, Lexi with no last name Nicole with no last name John Schulte, Dominic Draper, Richard Profrock, Nathan Pitts, Finnis with no last name Deanna Dina. Dina Dyer, Casey Randall, Megan Ross, Kevin Nolan, Terry Ann Chin, Danielle Caitlin Car. Oh Care Bear, Cordy Crawford Wyatt with no last name Lolo Hill, Lisa Appling, Sarah Dawson Adair Dan Rogers, Christine Fry, Beverly C. Stephen Hobbs, Ricky Kerner, Mary with no last name Kathy JC Anne Frochette, Fr. Eric Diebler, Pamela Parsons, Emily Dillon, Prue with no last name Tessa Marshall, Amy Amy Kellogg, Tim Wheeler, Charissa Carissa Kirsch, Laura Galloway, Rusty Shackelford and the Pocket Sand, Ashley with no last name Melanie Hines, Tyler Campbell, Leanne J. Beth, Seth Bernatsky, Amy Oldfield, Ama Amma, Ama Williams. Ama Ama Ask Me Anything Williams, Amanda Engels, Like Laura's kid and all of our patrons. You guys are the best. Thank you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank you so much. You fantastic, wonderful sons of bitches. We can't tell you how much you just.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, you change.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You keep the show going. You keep everything going the right way. Thank you. And we're so happy we did it this way where we can have it ourselves and you guys can have it without having to get some other company's app and all that shit. You're getting all our stuff. That's what we want to give you, not selling other people's shit. So awesome. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Keep coming back and seeing us week after week. Head over to shut upandgivemerder.com drop down menus take you everywhere you want to go. That said, until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[James Petragallo]

Bye.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ad, go to libsynads. Com, that's L, I B S Y N ads. Com. Today.