Murder In The Blood - Grasshopper Junction, Arizona

Summary

Small Town Murder – “Murder In The Blood – Grasshopper Junction, Arizona”

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Date: October 3, 2025

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

In this episode, the hosts dive into a gruesome double homicide that occurred in Grasshopper Junction, Arizona—a remote former mining outpost with a population so small, the crime essentially wiped out the entire town. They provide an in-depth exploration of the area, the people who lived there, and the bizarre, tragic events that led two troubled brothers from Alabama to commit an atrocity that shocked the region. As always, James and Jimmie balance meticulous research with dark, irreverent humor.

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SETTING THE SCENE: GRASSHOPPER JUNCTION & CHLORIDE, AZ

[04:30]

• The story is set in Grasshopper Junction, Arizona, just outside Chloride (pop. ~296).
• The area: remote, lacking basic amenities, historically a silver mining camp; never abandoned since 1866, making it the "oldest continuously inhabited mining town in Arizona."
• The median household income and home cost is startlingly low, reflecting deep poverty and a “drug-addled vibe.”
• Hosts riff on local traditions (“Old Miner’s Day” with gunfight reenactments and bake sales featuring pineapple upside-down cake), joking about the town’s motto and radioactive history (due to nuclear test fallout from the Nevada Test Site).

Memorable quote:
"Grasshopper Junction at this point has zero population. At the time of the murder... this wiped out the entire town." – James ([05:22])

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INTRODUCING THE KILLERS: THE MURRAY BROTHERS

[14:13]

Robert Wayne Murray (b. 1964)

• Troubled upbringing: physical abuse, psychological problems, involuntary bowel movements.
• Married at 16, criminal record includes burglary and armed robbery.
• Allegedly forced to work for his father’s illegal business.

Roger Wayne Murray (b. 1970)

• Even worse criminal trajectory: extensive juvenile record starting at age 9, violence, vandalized cemeteries, obsessed with guns, antisocial tendencies, multiple head injuries.
• Diagnosed with ADHD, brain damage, and aggressive conduct disorder; described as a “time bomb waiting to go off.”
• In and out of youth detention, boot camps, and prison for robbery and car theft.

Memorable quote:
"He’s a better kid. He keeps his shit in his body until he’s ready to expel it, which is excellent. That’s sad when that’s the base level." – James ([18:13])

Quote from a psychologist about Roger:
“Roger is a time bomb waiting to go off. He constantly talks about killing people, especially policemen. He’s very destructive. He needs help that we cannot give him.” ([19:32])

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THE KILLERS’ ESCALATING CRIMES & FLEEING TO ARIZONA

[32:14]

• April 30, 1991: In Alabama, the Murray brothers rob and violently assault a 78-year-old woman in her own home.
• Only Robert wears a makeshift mask (“cut from a sweatshirt sleeve... looks ridiculous”), Roger doesn’t—he’s recognized and identified by the victim.
• Upon realizing they are suspects, they flee Alabama in a beat-up Ford Tempo, heading west and amassing weapons, including a sawed-off shotgun purchased in Las Vegas.

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THE CRIME: THE SLAUGHTER IN GRASSHOPPER JUNCTION

Timeline: May 12–14, 1991

• May 12-13: The brothers check into the "Holiday House" motel in Kingman, AZ; circle two remote businesses in a road atlas—including Grasshopper Junction.
• Night of May 13/14: They arrive at the home/business of the only two real full-time residents: Dean Reginald Morrison (65, WWII veteran) and Jacqueline Applehans (60).
• The hosts detail the couple’s simple, rural background and their efforts to keep a dying town alive.

The Discovery

[43:14]

• A local friend arrives for his morning coffee, notices the restaurant door open and cash scattered outside, and discovers the bodies of Dean and Jackie in their home.
• The couple was forced to lie down, then executed with multiple firearms: shotgun, .38 revolver, and .22 rifle—suffering close-range wounds.
• The killers ransack the house, leaving items like wallets (despite $800 cash inside), but stealing thousands in cash and coins, which are found on the brothers upon their capture.

Memorable moment:
"Drawers in the living room. All the drawers in any kind of cabinets had been pulled out and pulled open. The contents strewn about... one of the two cushion coverings was missing from the couch." – James ([44:55])

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THE CAPTURE: CHASE ACROSS ARIZONA

[13:10, 35:09]

• May 14 (morning): The Murray brothers are spotted in Arizona in a white Ford Tempo with Alabama plates; a routine check reveals warrants for their arrest.
• High-speed pursuit ensues, ending when they attempt to flee across the desert—throwing guns out the windows, only to crash in a wash.
• Police recover weapons (sawed-off shotgun, revolver, semi-autos), receipts, the victims’ property, and the murder cash.

Memorable banter:
"We're going to do Baja in a Ford fucking Tempo... the desert, you might look at it and think it's even, but there's so many big dips and washes... It's terrifying." – James ([36:01])

On Roger's fate:
"Roger tosses a fully loaded .25 semi-automatic as well out the window... they're behind them in the desert, they're watching guns fly out." – James ([36:33])

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INVESTIGATION, EVIDENCE & FOOTPRINTS

[46:24]

• Detailed footprint analysis ties the brothers (one in cowboy boots, one in sneakers) to the scene—along with blood, possessions, and matching ammunition.
• Their attempt to mislead police (abandoning a tow truck facing west while fleeing east, pointing blame elsewhere) is easily thwarted by robust forensics and common sense.

Memorable quip:
"We'll walk in the desert, make footprints and then walk backwards in all them footprints, so it looks like we just disappeared… Looks like aliens took us in the desert." – James ([54:08])

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TRIAL, DEFENSE & SENTENCING

[63:57]

• Both Robert and Roger are tried together; Robert briefly considers representing himself.
• The hosts riff on the brothers’ desperate legal maneuvers, including requesting “a jury of my peers” (i.e., "I need pants-shitters if you can get them" – James, [68:07]).
• The defense's best (and failing) argument: they "just happened to be there," despite all evidence to the contrary.
• Jury is shown graphic crime scene photos; overwhelming evidence leads to convictions for both on multiple counts of first-degree and felony murder.

Quote:
"The evidence is overwhelming. It’s like, dude, Jesus Christ, man. You might as well have been carrying one of their heads in your backseat." – James ([56:31])

• Both brothers are sentenced to death.

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EPILOGUE: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BROTHERS

[78:02]

• Numerous appeals fail; Robert (the older brother) dies of “natural causes” in prison at age 49 in 2014.
  "He died at 49 of natural causes. The fuck is natural about that?" – James ([78:18])
• Roger remains on death row, penning philosophical essays about evil and blaming prosecutors for his fate.

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QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• On the tiny town riddled with murder:
  "We've never done a murder where the whole town died." – James ([05:22])
• On Roger’s criminality:
  "If we don't fix this now, he is going to be a mess later. We’re going to have to deal with him later… when they're doing bad shit and they're on our show." – James ([20:54])
• On the crime scene:
  "It's like Sonny Corleone at the tollbooth. This is crazy." – James ([44:31])
• On legal defenses:
  "The fecal defense—throwing anything up against the wall and hoping it sticks." – James ([77:50])

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IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

• Intro to Grasshopper Junction: [04:30]
• Bios: The Murray Brothers: [14:13]
• Alabama Crime & Flee: [32:14]
• Chase and Arrest in Arizona: [35:09], [36:33]
• Discovery of the Murders: [43:14]
• Forensic Evidence Discussion: [46:24], [54:08]
• Trial and Sentencing: [63:57], [74:03]
• Final Outcome & Aftermath: [78:02]

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CONCLUSION

Wrapping up, James and Jimmie reflect on the senselessness of the crime, lamenting the tragic, total erasure of a tiny town at the hands of two volatile drifters. Their trademark blend of research, outrage, and gallows humor turns this rural horror into an engrossing, macabre tale—tailor-made for fans of dark, true crime storytelling.

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End note:
"Don't shit your pants." – Jimmie ([81:16])

Transcript

[A]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. Seemintmobile.com if you love chilling mysteries, unsolved.

[B]

Cases and a touch of mom style.

[A]

Humor, Moms and Mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for.

[B]

Hey guys, I'm Mandy.

[A]

And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for Moms and Mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well researched true crime stories. Each week we deep dive into a variety of mind boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heists to whodunits. We're your go to podcast for mysteries with a motherly touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries wherever you get your podcast. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[B]

Yay. Choo choo.

[A]

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. I'm James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. We have some wild stuff for you today. We're going to Arizona. And it's always, it's never a normal one in Arizona either. We lived there a long time and it's a place where the murders are. They're vicious and strange and the desert does things to people, man. It's weird stuff.

[B]

Makes you see things.

[A]

We'll talk all about that. Yeah, if it can make you see things, it can make you into a weird murderer. So we'll talk all about that and more. First though, head over to shut upandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows. We are October 18th in Seattle at the Moore. There's still some tickets left for that one. Everything else is pretty much sold out. So get your tickets right now for that. Also get your tickets for the virtual live show. Oh, we're so excited. It's just like a regular live show except you don't have to go anywhere, anywhere in the world with wifi. You can watch this right from the comfort of your own living room, just, just like A regular live show. All the pictures and the jokes. And we'll wear costumes because it's Halloween. It's going to be so much fun. And you can watch it. It's available to watch for two weeks after the airing as well. So you can watch it 100 times. You can get it and then watch it later if you want. Do whatever you want with it. Keep hanging out with us. That's shutupandgivemerder.com then get yourself some Patreon. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, first listen to our other two shows, Crime and Sports. And you'd stupid opinions. But then get Patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports Just like the name of that other show you should be listening to. That's where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You are gonna get it all. Everything we offer. First of all, hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder and you get. How much of it do they get?

[B]

Every last bit of it.

[A]

Every damn drop of it. This week, what we're gonna talk about for Crime and Sports, we're gonna talk about the. Those old rock and jock specials that used to be on MTV. Nothing more hilarious than watching a 5 foot 6 actor try to like drive the lane on actual athletes. It's very funny. And we're gonna talk all about that. It's just gonna be a lighthearted.

[B]

I watched them every year.

[A]

I watched all of them. Yeah. The softball, everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then for Small Town Murder, we were gonna do an Internet salad, but we're gonna move that to another week. The next time. And we're gonna talk about that Unknown Number documentary. We've had so many requests for that.

[B]

Might as well.

[A]

We can't ignore it. So we'll talk about that. Patreon, do crimeinsports. And you also get all the shows, Small Town Murder, Crime in Sports and your stupid opinions all ad free with your Patreon subscription. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. It's all we can do for you. That's all we can do for you for $5. So do that and keep hanging out with us. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back, clear the lungs. Here we go. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, we're going Arizona. There we go. We both know. Yeah, we are going to Grasshopper Junction, Arizona. Who knew it existed, this place, man. Now we're going to talk about the stats for a town that's four miles from there called Chloride, Arizona, where there's actually people. Chloride. That sounds great, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God, it should be like cyanide should be in there.

[B]

Cyanide, Chloride, Arizona, in the direction of Kingman.

[A]

It's all outside Kingman in trash country. Yeah, this is trash country.

[B]

It sounds.

[A]

It's bad. It's just what it sounds like. Now, Chloride actually has some people. Grasshopper Junction at this point has zero population. At the time of the murder, obviously there was some people there, but this wiped out the entire town.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. We've never done a murder where the whole town died. But this is. We're there this week, so we'll talk about it. This is in northwestern Arizona. Either way, Chloride or Grasshopper Junction, it's about three and a half hours down to Phoenix. It's about an hour and a half to Vegas and about. Okay, yeah. About seven hours to Clifton, Arizona, which was our last Arizona episode number 592. Murder texts are forever. And yeah, it's a particularly stupid person in that one.

[B]

It's like northeast of Kingman, huh?

[A]

I think it's west of Kingman. It might be east of Kingman.

[B]

I'm not sure Kingman's on the goddamn border.

[A]

Well, it's west. It's west of Kingman.

[B]

Yeah. Is it really?

[A]

I think it's over toward. More toward California. Yeah. Nevada in that area. This is in Mojave County. Here are the stats for chloride. Population 296. Not a lot. Median household income there. Household $22,708.

[B]

That's a lot of math.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. And then median home cost, $109,600. That's the median cost.

[B]

I guarantee you this place is drug addled.

[A]

Oh, it has to be. Yeah. And I don't think ravaged a lot of those homes in that median home cost are like attached to the ground. I don't think there's a lot of those, so.

[B]

And if they are, they've been there since fucking territory was in the word. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. And the motto for Chloride, it is known as the gem of the cerbats. Kerbats.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

C E R B A T S.

[B]

Is that a mountain range?

[A]

How long have you lived in Arizona? 40 years.

[B]

38 years.

[A]

38 years. And you don't. I've never heard of this either. I lived there over 20 years. Never heard of this.

[B]

I've been up this way a hundred times. I've never heard of any of this.

[A]

Yeah, go to Vegas and you pass all this shit and you ignore it. History here. Chloride is a one time silver mining camp and is considered the oldest continuously inhabited mining town in Arizona.

[B]

Oldest continuously inhabited mining town.

[A]

It was never a ghost town. It never was abandoned. People stayed the whole time. So yeah, in 1866, miners began what was mining there in the Hulapai Indian territory. The miners were attacked and four were killed on the site. So they said this is a great place, obviously. So the two miners ended up escaping and bringing back the cavalry to claim the mine for them.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

And word got out that silver was found. And by 1863 there's a town basically now, Grasshopper Junction real quick here. Between May 28 and October 7, 1957, the Nevada Test site for nuclear testing ran a series of nuclear tests called Operation plumb bob. In 1958, they also did more tests called Operation Hardtack 2. And Grasshopper Junction became a part of hearings before a special subcommittee on radiation in the Joint Committee on Atomic Energy. Basically, there's some radiation here. Is the problem a lot? That's what they figured out. Yeah. Which Northern Arizona is kind of call.

[B]

It Micro Colombos all you want. That's too many Colombos.

[A]

I don't want any Colombos.

[B]

Zero Columbos is Microsoft.

[A]

Holy shit. In 1975, a marker was erected across from Grasshopper Junction to honor the bicentennial of chloride.

[B]

200 years, huh?

[A]

Yeah. From 1988 to 1991, Grasshopper Junction had a population of six.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

Yeah. And it's one family.

[B]

That's a family.

[A]

We'll talk. It is. And it is one family. We'll talk about them reviews of this town. This is for Chloride. Not a lot out there. Here is one. Chloride is a hidden gem in Arizona.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The people here are welcoming and friendly and the landscape is breathtaking. Oh, I love dirt. It's great fucking landscape. There's no landscaping up that direction. It's a great place to escape the hustle and bustle of city life and enjoy some peace and quiet. Here's a better one here.

[B]

Hustle and bustle. Of Kingman.

[A]

Of Kingman. Of a bunch of gas stations.

[B]

Yeah. Williams, Arizona.

[A]

Oh, boy. Here's Sarah. Living in Chloride is like stepping back in time. The town has a rich history and you can feel it as you walk down the streets. Yeah. It's all under your feet.

[B]

I mean, it's all the Colombos around here.

[A]

I can feel them. However, it can feel isolated at times and there aren't many amenities nearby. Yeah, it's absolutely not things to do here. The old Miners Day parade and celebration. Old Miner's Day? Yep. They say some families have lived in Chloride for generations. On the third Saturday in October, Chloride honors its hard rock miners. They fucking rock.

[B]

Hard rock. Fucking Megadeth mine.

[A]

They fucking killing it. Hard rock miners of the past. They just bring like twisted cistern dee Snider waves to people. To start the day, Chloride's bakers prepare their one of a kind treat for the corner bake sale.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Pineapple upside down cake and pecan pie are bestsellers. Don't forget to buy raffle tickets. The prize includes hotel stays and Chloride.

[B]

Say motel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't you dare.

[A]

How dare you. Gift certificates and sometimes cash.

[B]

Sometimes.

[A]

Give you a 20. There you go. You win.

[B]

When we've synced it.

[A]

Yep. You can participate in the parade if you just sign up at town hall. You can watch gunfight reenactments in the Chloride Historical Society's cyanide springs. That sounds lovely. Where are you going? Wow. Me and the wife are going to spend some weekend to soak in the cyanide springs. I've been feeling too good lately up in Chloride.

[B]

I think I just found out why there's 280 people here.

[A]

Jesus Christ, man. This is wild stuff. That said. Okay, let's talk about some murder. Never mind Chloride in their parade. Let's talk about some murder. Okay. May 14, 1991. All right. This is in the morning, pre 8:00am.

[B]

Okay, so it's 112 already.

[A]

118 degrees. Everyone's gone inside. Basically there are state workers driving around these highways all the time. And one of them finds a tow truck abandoned on the I40 westbound near Kingman. Like pointed westbound, headed west.

[B]

That's when you got to take to go to Vegas, that direction over there.

[A]

So they're like, okay, they're looking at that. They find this tow truck and they find the tow truck belongs to a man named Dean Morrison in Grasshopper Junction. They own a couple of businesses in there. So that is. That's. They find that tow truck now about 20 minutes later.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On the I40 eastbound near Holbrook, which is way in the other direction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A couple hours on the other side of the state.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Holbrook is going toward New Mexico.

[B]

Winslow.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Out that direction. If you wanted to, you can take. If you're going up to the 40, you can go to Flagstaff and over, or you can take that 87 and cut through Holbrook and go that way, depending on traffic. And.

[B]

Well, the 40 goes that way, too.

[A]

That's what I mean. You connect to it from there.

[B]

Oh, gotcha, gotcha.

[A]

Yeah, you connect, like from Phoenix. I'm thinking I should have made that clear. So. So this is about 8am A Department of Public Safety officer spots a white Ford Tempo with Arizona or with Alabama license plates on it.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

So he's just bored and runs the plates.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And finds out that the owner of this car, the registered owner, is wanted for assault and robbery, assault and armed robbery, and is considered armed and dangerous.

[B]

Out of Alabama.

[A]

Out of Alabama.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So they're like, okay, dude puts his lights on to pull him over. Fucking Tempo takes off.

[B]

Now we're in a 35 mile an hour.

[A]

An 88 Ford Tempo is not exactly the car you want to make a run for it in.

[B]

Yeah, they call it a Tempo because you gotta keep it real easy.

[A]

Well, you keep a very steady tempo of 37 miles an hour at all times, 6,000 rpm. Those things made Escorts look like they were luxurious.

[B]

It was stepped down from the Escort.

[A]

Yeah. At least the Escort had a GT model. You know what I mean? Like, there wasn't. The Tempo was just. Here you go, asshole. It was 86 horsepower. Enjoy.

[B]

I think in the 90s, they put ground effects on some of those pieces.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That was a bad time for everybody.

[B]

It's a bad car.

[A]

So they attempt a traffic stop, turn the lights on, the Tempo is gone. Now who is inside of this running Tempo?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

But who's crazy enough to think it's.

[B]

Got a Mustang motor in it? That's for sure.

[A]

Who's crazy enough to think they can make a run for it in a ford Tempo, an 88 tempo? Well, it's. A couple of brothers are in the car. This is wild. Robert Wayne Murray is one of the brothers. He's the older brother, born December 20, 1964. And also in the car is his younger brother, Roger Wayne Murray. Both of their middle names are Wayne.

[B]

Wayne. Yeah.

[A]

Roger and Robert, which are also very close. This was so confusing to put together. I can't even tell you now. He's born July 28, 1970. So Robert Older, Roger Younger.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Think of who Framed Roger Rabbit. He's a cartoon. He's young. There you go. Okay. That's how I had to think about it. To keep them straight in My head.

[B]

The older's got more letters in his name. That's all.

[A]

Is it? Yeah, one more. He's got one more letter now. They're from Mount Hope, Alabama. I heard they also lived in Russellville. But they're fleeing.

[B]

Alabama's there.

[A]

Yeah, they're fleeing from Mount Hope. Now a little bit about their backgrounds to figure out who's in this car running. What kind of an asshole tries to make a desert getaway in a Ford Tempo? Sure, let's figure it out. First of all, Robert. Apparently Robert's mother and aunt will say that when he was a kid, small child, and growing up into his teens, he had a problem with, quote, involuntary bowel movements, which sounds horrifying for a child. He just shits himself a lot.

[B]

Just. And he can't. He can't do anything about it, apparently.

[A]

Apparently not. But it's not a physical thing. They take him to the doctor and they do. I don't know. There's something wrong with him. He's like. It's like a psychological problem where his.

[B]

Body just doesn't want it. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. His asshole won't. Won't compress or something. I don't know.

[B]

Hold.

[A]

Just.

[B]

Won't hold. Waste it. Just shoots it out.

[A]

Won't shut it.

[B]

It's like a bird.

[A]

As soon as it comes through, it's gone.

[B]

It's like a fucking bird, except with.

[A]

Pants on to catch it, which is even grosser.

[B]

It's no good.

[A]

At least a bird just gets rid of it. So the mother also said that his father would beat the shit out of Robert all the time. Punch him with fists.

[B]

Well, now you've got the problem.

[A]

That's what I was going to say. Maybe that's why. Yeah. Because a lot of times when kids are like, wetting the bed. As an older. At an older age, it's because it's abuse. So apparently Robert got married at the age of 16 when he got his girlfriend pregnant.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

So he must have been done with the involuntary bowel movements by then to get enough time to get someone pregnant.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he quit high school to work full time at 16. He's about 6ft tall. 2. He has a lot of criminal problems. He does here. He has all sorts of arrests for burglary, theft. He's wanted for armed robbery. Like we said here. He had. I guess also he felt like.

[B]

He.

[A]

Was forced to quit school. His parents made him quit school, which. You knocked a girl up. Well, you can't. My husband has math class is weird. You know what I mean, yeah, my.

[B]

Husband has a D in social studies. My husband's gonna have to do summer school.

[A]

Well, my husband has second period gym, so I can't get a hold of him right now. Is a weird, weird thing. No. Also, he was forced not only to quit school, but to work for his father's business, which was illegal. I don't know what he was doing, but it was some sort of illegal business.

[B]

Oh, got it.

[A]

Okay. So that's part of it. Now, Roger, the younger one, actually has a way more extensive criminal history.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, he's.

[B]

Roger's better.

[A]

Roger is a mess.

[B]

How about it?

[A]

Now, Roger has some ADD when he's a kid. Hyperactivity. And, you know, he's born in 1970, and even in the 70s, they were like, this kid's, you know, something wrong with him here. He's a little too hyper.

[B]

Is he pants shitting, though?

[A]

He's not. He keeps his shit in his body till he's ready to expel it, which is excellent. That's sad. When that's the base level. Can you control your bowels? Yes. Hey. All right. Now we're on to.

[B]

He's a better kid.

[A]

He has multiple head injuries as a child. His father obviously physically abused him, too. Extensive juvenile record. That starts at age 9.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Which it's hard to get arrested at 9. It's, you know, he got arrested for shoplifting, but at 9, you have to get arrested. You have to get caught multiple times before the police are involved. At nine. At nine, they'll take it away from you, take you aside and go, listen. This is why they'll talk to your mother. Your mother will yell at you. Police don't get involved with 9 year olds until they've done this a lot. He told classmates at one point here, when he's 13, he brings a gun to school, which you're not supposed to do.

[B]

That was early.

[A]

Yeah. He's showing his classmates the gun and they're like, why'd you bring that? And he said, that way I can blow my teacher's brains out if I want to.

[B]

If I want to.

[A]

If I want to.

[B]

We're going to watch the lesson plan.

[A]

Today, see how it goes. If the man plays a film strip, he's going to live. Let's just put it that way.

[B]

Better be on his P's and Q's. Second that overbred protector turns on, we're going to have a problem.

[A]

It's a problem. He's sent to a detention home. At one point during this era, Wonder why a home counselor there wrote that Roger is a time bomb waiting to go off. That's not a good. That's not a ringing endorsement. Also, his brother shits his pants a lot and that's kind of disturbing. They didn't put that. He also wrote he constantly talks about killing people, especially policemen. He's very destructive. He needs help that we cannot give him. Here we are tapped. He's way too fucked up for us is what they're saying. They said he. Yeah, he has serious emotional problems. They also said when he isn't crying, he's cursing or destroying things around the house and then says he needs help we can't give him and he's a time bomb waiting to go off. Another psychologist during this period, a court appointed psychologist said, my fear is that Roger will have no care for society. I believe that Roger and society are going to be at odds until some drastic steps are taken. It appears that it would be to Roger's benefit for those steps to occur as soon as possible if we're going to have a chance of changing his behavior.

[B]

Yeah. Then it slides on a collision course with Roger.

[A]

Yeah. If we don't fix this now, he is going to be a mess later. We're going to have to deal with him later, essentially, which. Yeah, that's how kids are. You don't deal with them now. You got to deal with them later.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When they're doing bad shit and they're on our show. So he vandalized a cemetery at age 14.

[B]

Really?

[A]

That's just shitty. Like, who vandalizes a cemetery? I sound like Tony Soprano now. How do you vandalize a swimming pool?

[B]

What do you do?

[A]

How do you do. Well, that's a good question. How do you vandalize a swimming pool? You can't spray paint it. Like, what do you do?

[B]

I guess you pour concrete in it or something.

[A]

They threw chairs in it. Oh, shit. The Sopranos. That was it. Yeah. Little Anthony Jr. And Lady Gaga too. She was in that scene.

[B]

She was in that scene?

[A]

Yeah, she was.

[B]

Wow. How about that?

[A]

She was being an actress and she's Italian.

[B]

Being an Italian girl.

[A]

Just being, hey, you're an Italian chick there. Throw some shit in the water. There you go. So. Well, she was doing it anyway and they were like, yeah, well, yeah, just get this on film. So he vandalizes a cemetery, which is really just creepy.

[B]

So he's just scummy shit.

[A]

Yeah. These people are dead. Yeah.

[B]

And it's not like he's vandalizing some famous person Shit, it's just some. Some dude named Todd in Alabama, and he's kicking over his fucking headstone.

[A]

Yeah. Just so the family will be upset or whatever. So he sent to the Department of Youth Services for criminal mischief. It's kind of a. It's more of a commitment, they call it, than a sentence, basically. A counselor reported that Roger was receiving behavioral counseling, but said, quote, at present, he just simply does not appear interested in rectifying his misdeeds. So even in counseling, he's like, don't care. Fuck you.

[B]

I don't want to fix it.

[A]

Yeah, just. Bad guy. In 1984, around this time, a psychologist gave a diagnostic report that Roger had a conduct disorder and was under socialized and aggressive. After which they put him in for a year of treatment and rehabilitation at the Alabama Department of Youth Services, which he also got drug and alcohol counseling at this point, too. So he was already drinking and doing drugs at 14. A doctor there, a doctor Potts, diagnosed him with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and also antisocial personality disorder and things like that. This doctor said that his life has been directed by what is quite probably an organic brain disorder. The psychological testing conducted since he was 14 is consistent with brain damage. It manifests as hyperactivity, poor impulse control, a short fuse, violent rages, and increased susceptibility to the effects of alcohol and other illicit substances. So basically a keg of nitroglycerin. Just that any little thing can set off is what they just said. Now, at 17, he's gonna plead guilty to unauthorized use of a vehicle and was placed on probation. A few months later, he's again charged with unauthorized use of a vehicle. Yeah, so he didn't get that. Then. Also, at age 17, he's arrested for two separate armed robbery incidents.

[B]

My Christ.

[A]

And third degree burglary and theft. Now, he admitted the theft and the robbery, but would not admit the armed robbery. Okay, okay. Now, when he is brought to court and sentenced, he is asking them for youthful offender status, which means that he won't be sent to adult prison.

[B]

Why is Robin like crazy at 17? It's time to maybe rectify the situation.

[A]

I think we've tried and you didn't listen. And now you're an adult here.

[B]

Now you just want leniency to keep doing this shit.

[A]

Basically, that's it. So the Alabama Board of Pardons and Paroles said the subject, meaning Roger, bears a bad reputation in Colbert County. He's considered to be dangerous. He has a thing about guns. He has been stealing since he was 9 years old, he's been through the juvenile court system and this has not helped him any. He runs with a bad crowd of older people. He has never worked to any amount of anything. And as stated above, he is considered to be dangerous by the folks who know him. And one of his ex parole officers said, Roger Wayne Murray is a dangerous individual. I believe that if left to remain in society, he will harm and continue to harm people. Roger should be treated as an adult in order that society might be protected from such aggressiveness and abusive personality.

[B]

They tried to tell him, dude, we all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they said, collision course with society.

[A]

So they end up he's convicted as an adult for burglary. They drop the robbery charge. It's a plea deal. And he gets, rather than prison, he is sentenced to a boot camp.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which this, this was part of his plea was to go to this boot camp. So that's what he wanted. He of course failed that miserably and is sent to adult prison after that. All he had to do was get through this boot camp. Instead he's sent to prison for four years.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

There is no, like, if I do this, then this will happen with this guy.

[B]

Yeah. He doesn't understand that just keeping it between the lines is like beneficial to. I mean, if you want freedom, there's that. But just like be a decent dude, you can still be a dickhead. Just fucking. Don't do anything illegal.

[A]

He's just a slave to his impulses, it seems like. They also said that doctor from before, by the way, the Alabama Board of Pardons called him dangerous and talked about his, quote, thing about guns. Because he's released in 1990 from prison. January 1990. In a pre sentence evaluation, they said that Roger had cerebrovascular. Had a cerebrovascular accident, quite possibly secondary to PCP ingestion.

[B]

What the fuck? So he has a brain injury that's similar to what, too much pcp?

[A]

No, no, no. He has a brain injury that's exacerbated by PCP ingestion.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's only made worse.

[B]

So he should certainly do that.

[A]

So he should do as much PCP as possible, I would say. So he's released from prison in January of 1990 and seems to stay out of trouble for a year, which is a long time for Roger to stay out of trouble.

[B]

52 weeks.

[A]

Yes. Then he's charged with theft of property, attempt to elude, and driving without a license.

[B]

Okay. Stole a car.

[A]

Stole a car, fled, tried to run, had no license. So now he's, by the way, he's about 5 foot 8. So he's shorter than his brother, 6 foot and 5 foot 8. So these are the two people fleeing in this Ford Tempo.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

The bad guys, not great guys. And whoever's following, all they know is they're wanted for armed robbery. They don't know the list I just gave you of shit of exactly who they're dealing with.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Now, during the same time all of this is going on here, which is crazy. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com absolutely. October 10th is World Mental Health Day. And this year we're saying thank you to the therapists here. They make a big difference. And better help therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys. And behind everyone is a therapist who showed up, listen and help someone take a step forward. It's therapy is a big deal and it's a really excellent thing for anybody. A lot of things, moments in therapy, like the right question, a safe place to cry, even a little small win can really change your life. This World mental health day, BetterHelp is honoring those connections and the therapists who make them possible, while showing how easy it is to get guidance from a licensed therapist. With BetterHelp, we are huge proponents of therapy and general mental health, things like that. And BetterHelp has been doing this for over 12 years, helping match the right people with the right therapist. And they do a wonderful job. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. They do a short questionnaire, helps you identify your needs and preferences. And their 12 years plus of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. But if you're not happy with your therapist, you can make a switch anytime you want, no extra cost at all. Over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based over 1.7 million client reviews. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com SmallTownMurder that's BetterHelp H E L P.com SmallTownMurder now back to the show. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get your finances in better shape with Rocket Money.

[B]

Rocketmoney.com you know it.

[A]

A lot of people are not aware of how much money they spend each month. They just don't know. Do you know how many subscriptions you pay for off the top of your head? Who knows? I don't know. There's tons of stuff. What about how much you spend on takeout or delivery? It's probably more than you think. But there's an app designed to help you manage your money better, and that is Rocket Money. My goodness, are they great. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. If you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. And that's what they did for me. I literally was paying for something for four years I didn't even know I was paying for. Thank you, Rocket Money. That was amazing. Their dashboard lays out your total financial picture, including bill due dates and pay dates in a way that's easy to digest. You can even automatically create custom budgets based on your past spending. If you got like a goal that you're saving for, Rocket Money can analyze your accounts to find the best time each month to put money aside, get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're getting close to going over budget, even when you're doing a good job, they're going to tell you that too. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com SmallTown Murder today. That's RocketMoney.com SmallTown Murder RocketMoney.com Small Town.

[B]

Murder now back to the show.

[A]

So what they what they're fleeing from in Alabama? Because you might say, why are they Fleeing Alabama? On April 30, 1991, this is the armed robbery they're wanted for. At about 9pm in Mount Hope, Alabama, a 78 year old woman was alone in her home when two men enter, one wearing a mask cut from a sweatshirt sleeve. Literally pulled a sweatshirt sleeve over his head, cut some holes in it.

[B]

Ingenuity. But it looks funny.

[A]

It looks ridiculous. And only one of them wore a mask. The other one didn't. Robert had the mask on. Roger didn't. Okay, they tie her up, beat her for a period of time and ransack the whole house, just tear it apart. They leave her alive, though.

[B]

Is that good? I mean, well.

[A]

And two days later, she identifies Roger in a photo lineup as the guy who wasn't wearing the mask.

[B]

After she got out of the hospital, I imagine.

[A]

Yep, absolutely. That's. It took her two days to be able to process all this because she was beaten and with. For two days. She's 78 years old now. That's now Roger. That tells you a lot about Roger. Robert said, I'll put a mask on. Roger said, what Consequences that come later.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't understand that. I don't need a mask.

[B]

Somebody walks in not wearing a mask, you're probably about to die. That's frightening.

[A]

That's terrifying. Yeah. Especially one scary, weird sweatshirt mask.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. By the way, sticking up. Or was it, like, whacked off there?

[A]

No, no. Yeah, it was. It was fitting. But like, everybody out there who wants a weird Halloween costume or anyone making a horror movie, have the killer wear a sweatshirt sleeve pulled over their head with eye holes cut out. Terrifying. I would shit my pants if I saw that in my house.

[B]

Especially if it's like. If it's just whacked off at the armpit and then pulled over and then that part just draped back. That would be like a big fucking elephant tusk on your head.

[A]

He wasn't wearing the sweatshirt that he cut the sleeve off of.

[B]

Right. I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah. I'm just saying that so that the mask also matches, basically. They said, we have a description of this mask. They went to their house after they were picked out of a photo liner. No, no, no. Their father, Murray Sr. There, he gave the police a sweatshirt with a missing sleeve that matched it perfectly that they had in their room.

[B]

Perhaps this is it.

[A]

Yep. So they know they're wanted for armed robbery. That's when they fled Alabama and headed west. And that's where we find them on May 14, 1991. Oh, they're rolling tight. All right, back to the chase now. Okay. They get up to 85 miles an hour. Cause that's as fast as the Ford Tempo will go. That's pinned. That is fucking pinned.

[B]

With two adult men. Inside. That's all it's got.

[A]

Big guys. Yeah. So they leave the highway. There's a manned armed roadblock ahead for them.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Because they're armed and dangerous and wanted. So, you know, they do that. They crash through it. They just gunned it and crashed through. They had like a movie, they had cops diving off to the side while they crashed through the roadblock and kept going.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Finally, they're all behind them on the road. They decide that the best course of action is to go off the road into the desert in a Ford Tempo. Ford Tempo. We're going to do Baja in a Ford fucking Tempo. Now, the desert, you might look at it and if you just look out across it, it looks like it's an equal, like an even surface.

[B]

Not even close.

[A]

There's so many big dips and washes.

[B]

And it's like a Detroit road.

[A]

It's terrifying. Yeah. It's horrifying. But worse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're driving through the desert and finally they crash into a wash, which is just a big dry river gully in the fucking desert, basically. So now they're stuck in a wash here while they were driving through the desert. And I think this is why they turned off into the desert. They're throwing things out the window. Robert throws a.38 revolver from the car. Oh, four live rounds still in it.

[B]

Really.

[A]

And Roger tosses a fully loaded.25 semiautomatic as well out the window. And they're behind them in the desert. They're watching guns fly out the window as they're behind them. It's not a good thing here. So they ended up, you know, giving up and everything like that. So they have, they pick up the guns and they have a.38 revolver with four bullets loaded.25. Robert also has two spent shotgun shell casings in his pocket, just in his jeans pocket there.

[B]

No shotgun, just the shells.

[A]

Just spent shells too. Just in his Levi's there. Not like, you know, about to be made.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Inside the vehicle, they find a loaded 12 gauge sawed off shotgun. Might want to throw that out the window too, while you're driving.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Along with live double aught buckshot shells. Sure. There's also a checkered cushion cover that goes over like a couch cushion, that kind of thing. Okay. Which contained rolled coins.

[B]

Okay. So that was the bag that they used to rob something.

[A]

The coin rolls are stamped with Dean's Enterprises, Grasshopper junction, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Along with the. With a blue killer pillowcase as well, in the car containing approximately fourteen hundred dollars in coin rolls.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And $3300 in cash.

[B]

Wow, that's like.

[A]

That's like a lot.

[B]

A safe.

[A]

Safecracker. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

They found gloves as well. And also a receipt from the Holiday House Motel in Kingman dated May 12, 1991. Now this is the morning of May 14th. Motel record, all this shit. Yeah. Motel records showed the brothers had listed a 1988 Ford Tempo on the hotel registration card with matching Alabama license plate as well. They also had a road atlas in the car that had circles around locations of two rural shops and restaurants. One is Oasis and one is Grasshopper Junction.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. That's all that was indicated on the map. Just two circles around there and an atlas. Okay. They also have keys to a truck that they don't have possession of as well. Chevy truck. Now, this is important. Robert is wearing cowboy boots. Roger's wearing sneakers. That'll be important later.

[B]

Yeah. Country. I'm a little rock and roll.

[A]

Yeah. There you go. Roger knows he's gonna have to make a run for it. I think a lot.

[B]

Robert's like, if I run, I'll shit my pants.

[A]

Those boots will make shit come out my pants.

[B]

Maybe that'll. That's his catch. All at the bottom.

[A]

Yeah. So he also has a hacksaw. They have a phone number and address of a Las Vegas gun dealer. Gloves and a, like, police scanner. Yeah. Okay. They have all of this in the car.

[B]

This is all very suspect. Shit.

[A]

I would say now about that same time, by the time they catch up to them, it's about 8:30 in the morning. Somewhere between 8:30 and 9:00am There's a guy named Laverne Radunes. And. Laverne Radunes, he lives in this area, the Grasshopper Junction area. Not in the town, but he goes here usually between 8:30 and 9am every morning for coffee. He goes and has coffee with the owners of this place. Who are Dean Reginald Morrison and Jackie Jacqueline Applehans. Those are the people who own the place. Now, a little bit about them. Dean Reginald Morrison, born July 23, 1925. So he's about 65 at this point. He's from Michigan. He has parents, Roy and Violet. Has a brother and sister. He got married in 1945.

[B]

Wow. He was born when Woodrow Wilson was.

[A]

President, for Christ's sake. Yeah. No shit. He was. Yeah. I don't think Hoover came in yet. So he was born in 1945 or. I'm sorry, 1945. He gets married now he served in the Navy in World War II. So I feel like that's why he got married, because a lot of those guys got married before they went. And this is a short lived marriage. I know because I found in the records that Grace, the woman he married, was married to somebody else by 1947. So that just did not last long. Now, Jacqueline Louise Corsaut Appelhans Corsat.

[B]

Applehans.

[A]

Corsat's her maiden name. And then Applehans is one of her married names. She's born November 5, 1930. She's born in Santa Ana, California, and her father's Carl. Her mother's Donna. She's been married a few times too. She's married in 1949, became Jackie Stearns. Then 1971, she's Jackie Martin. And then sometime in there, she must have married and divorced a man named Applehans because she's Applehans after that. Now, the two of the Dean and Jackie, they live together and they're a couple and everything. They had four children. I don't know if they're their four children or four children from different marriages and put it together. But by 1991, all the children have moved out. They're all older, all adults. Yeah, yeah. This isn't a place where you like, you live at home till you're 25, you'll be real bored. You get the hell out of here. Now, at this moment in time, in 1991, the four children are still counted in the official town population of six.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, it's Dean, Jackie.

[B]

So it's really only two.

[A]

Yes, that's. In reality, this town is two people.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And they are co owner and operators of the Grasshopper Junction Store restaurant thing there. They live on site and they also own a towing business called Dean's Enterprises. So they have a tow truck. Okay. Now, friend is there, Laverne. He pops up for coffee and finds the restaurant door wide open and money on the ground outside, which is strange, obviously. Who the hell leaves money scattered around? Walks through the door and sees the cash register isn't where it normally is. It's out of place and crooked. Like someone just threw it. So this guy leaves the restaurant and walks to the house that they live in. Right. Attached to it. And their door is open. And that's when they look in and see blood and bodies.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

So this guy hops in his car to drive to call the police.

[B]

There's no phone here.

[A]

There might be a phone in there in the restaurant. But he sees it as crimes.

[B]

He doesn't want to be around.

[A]

Doesn't want to disturb it.

[B]

Also, what if they're still here?

[A]

That's the other thing. He takes off, drives and goes to call the cops. Now the police arrive and they find both Dean and Jackie lying face down in the living room wearing bathrobes. These poor people just got up. Both have a lot of gunshot wounds, by the way. We'll talk about it. Multiple gunshot wounds to the head from multiple different calibers. It's a lot. On the couch, there's a revolver and A semi automatic. A.22 semi automatic rifle leaned against the wall, muzzle down, which is a weird way to put a gun. Lean a gun against the wall? No. Various.22 caliber and.38 caliber bullets and casings and shells are found near the body, as well as shotgun pellets. This looks like 18 people came in and mowed them down. Like this is like a Sonny Corleone at the toll booth. This is crazy. So, yeah, they found that stuff here. Jackie was. Her hand was clutching Dean's arm. Okay, yeah, so they were. Yeah, they were connected. Trying to get through it.

[B]

She's looking for help, too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're both in the same spot. Drawers in the living room. All the drawers in any kind of cabinets had been pulled out and pulled open. The contents strewn about the bedrooms and kitchen were ransacked. One of the two cushion coverings was missing from the couch.

[B]

Was it checkered?

[A]

Let's find out. Yeah, there's a.303 rifle on the bed and $172 on a desk chair. There's loose change and a single roll of coins on the kitchen floor inside Dean Morrison's wallet, which was undisturbed. In the pocket of his pants on the kitchen floor. He had $800 in cash in there, too.

[B]

What the hell?

[A]

The drawer from the store's cash register had been removed. Packs of Marlboro cigarettes were left in paper bags in the store. They filled paper bags with Marlboro's and left them there. The gas register was turned on. There's a separate register for the gas. So the pumps are turned on. The pumps are turned on. They found Dean's glasses, a flashlight and a set of keys on the patio of the store. They also found three live.38 caliber rounds near the gas pump, which is interesting. And Dean's sister, a couple weeks later, will find a fired.25 caliber slug in the pantry about two weeks later as well. Okay, now there's a detective named Detective Lent of the Mohave County Sheriff's Department. He's documenting the tracks around the scene. Foot tracks. They literally get a guy who could, like, you know. You know, picks up a leaf and smells it and goes. He's going. He's going west. He's one of those guys. He's headed west. He tastes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He licks his finger, puts it to the dirt and licks it. And he goes north. He's going north.

[B]

He had eggs Benedict this morning.

[A]

I know it. And he shit his pants. He shit his pants.

[B]

Florentine.

[A]

Pants full of shit. Also for sure.

[B]

For a man full of shit full.

[A]

Of shit, he might be walking funny because his pants is full. So this guy documents the tracks around the scene, noting that the tracks of the officers at the scene, as well as those of Laverne, the person who found the bodies. Lent and another experienced tracker found four sets of footprints not made by the officers or the friend who came to visit, two of which turn out to be the victims. They're made by slippers, two of the footprints. The other two sets of footprints are made by a pair of tennis shoes and a pair of cowboy boots. Oh, yeah. Who's wearing those?

[B]

That we would not familiar with those guys.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So they photographed and sketched the footprints. They did not make casts, though. Other than the shoe prints, the victims and. And the guy who found the victims here, these are the only footprints to enter or leave the crime scene other than these people. One trail showed three sets of prints. Tennis shoes, boots, and Dean Morrison slippers. The prints indicated that Dean Morrison was fighting. By the shuffling around and the movement of the slippers, you could tell he was fighting, they said. They also found rolled and loose coins in the courtyard amidst the footprints of the victims and the perpetrators. And they were also both the boots, the tennis shoes and the slippers. Footprints were all found near a backhoe as well, where there was also tire tracks later determined to be from the tow truck that they found on the Westbound I40 earlier that night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so the injuries. Dean Morrison has a shotgun blast behind his left ear.

[B]

Ah, Jesus.

[A]

From no more than three feet of distance. So that's. You're on the ground, I'm above you. Goodbye. Skulls shattered. Also two large caliber pistol wounds, left lower neck and right temple.38 bullet recovered from the neck. Buckshot removed from his head. He's also has lacerations and abrasions on his face, elbow, forearm, knee and thigh from fighting. Jackie has contact shotgun wounds shattering her head.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

Quote, brain and scalp tissue on couch and surrounding area. Just blew her head, apart from close range. 2.38 caliber slugs still in the what's left of her head. Two.22 caliber wounds to the back of the neck exiting her face. That's fucked up in the face.22 bolt caliber bullet fragment in her right hand. And they find in her autopsy she has aspiration hemorrhage in the lungs, meaning a time lapse between when she was shot and when she died. She sat there suffering. He said the.38 caliber bullets were a possible cause of death. The.22 bullets had an uncertain role. And obviously the shotgun blast was lethal. But the autopsy could not figure out the sequence of the shots. They assumed the.22s first because of the aspiration. Because once the shotgun hit the head, it would have been all.

[B]

There's nothing. Yeah.

[A]

And they find on the scene, like we said, there are a bunch of weapons on the scene.38 revolver on the couch.22 semiautomatic revolver, rifle against the wall.303 rifle on the bed. All the bullet casing shells near body.24 caliber bullet found in the pantry.25 I'm sorry.25 caliber. And three live.38 bullets near the gas pumps.

[B]

Fucking shit.

[A]

So, yeah, they have all of this stuff that we've talked about now. The footprints, footprint evidence. We talked about that. The trails and the backhoe. So the police figure out where these brothers have been. Because they have these brothers and all these guns and they have this body. And these guys all, by the way are covered in blood is the other thing. They have like blood and like just viscera on them all over them. Skull fragments in their shirts and stuff like that. So they pull them in. They figure out without their help that they've been driving this 1988 Ford Tempo. They track them. They don't know where they were. Basically from the 30th when they attacked that lady in Alabama, to May 11th when they found them in Las Vegas. So who knows what kind of trail of destruction they left across the country to get that far. But in Las Vegas. They spent the night in Vegas. They purchased a 12 gauge shotgun. They found a gun dealer bought the shotgun and paid cash for the transaction. Yeah, after the purchase, they must have taken the hacksaw that's in the car and hacked off the shotgun because it's sawed off by the time they find it. But the serial number matches the one they bought in Vegas. May 12, 1991, is when they drove to Kingman and checked into the Holiday House Motel. Registered their Ford Tempo. Just so it's nice and nice and recorded, nice and documented.

[B]

Holiday House couldn't even be in the Holiday Inn franchise.

[A]

They were like, there's red roofs and there's Holiday Inns and there's, you know, fucking Springwood Suites and there's courtyards and what about a Holiday House? That sounds fun, don't it?

[B]

Holiday House.

[A]

So they got a room for two nights. They had a road atlas that we talked about. They circled two locations, Grasshopper Junction and Oasis, which are both remote, isolated places. If you're going to rob, you can scream all you want, ain't nobody going to hear you type of thing. So they checked out of the motel on May 13. Even though they had it for two nights, they still checked out. They went that night to the temple bar. From 9 to 10pm That's 53 miles from Grasshopper Junction is this bar. Now, they drank there, the manager, because everyone, everyone else here, they know. So these are two strangers. So the manager kept an eye on them and said even though they were drinking, they were handling themselves very well. They weren't stumbling drunk, not out of control, just normal guys having some drinks. They left around 10pm, drive off into the desert night here. They apparently arrived at Grasshopper Junction at Dean Morrison's place sometime after midnight is what they assume. Now, the shotgun seller remembers the Ford Tempo, remembers writing down their phone number and address, but doesn't remember their faces.

[B]

Imagine that. I remember car that a fucking Topaz? No, it's a fucking Tempo, babe.

[A]

Yeah, but doesn't remember either of their faces. Yeah, okay. Now also in their possession is a checkered couch cushion cover which matches Dean Morrison's couch. The stamped rolled coins that say Dean's Enterprises, Grasshopper Junction. It's pretty bad. Oh, and also by the way, the keys that the unknown keys that one of them had in their pocket match Dean Morrison's 1991 Chevy pickup truck that's still at the house. The tow truck, apparently. What they were doing. And the scanner is also. The scanner goes to the tow truck, the police scanner. What they were doing apparently was they drove that tow truck and pointed it west while they drove east.

[B]

Ah, we're gonna put. It would be weird to put up a sign that said the Wayne Murray boys went this way.

[A]

So what if we point it that way? Hold on. You know what we're gonna do? We're gonna point it, then we're gonna walk in the desert, make footprints and then walk backwards in all them footprints so it looks like we just disappeared. Looks like aliens took us in the desert. They'll never just all they must have done got sucked up to space right there. No, that's not how it happened.

[B]

Pointed straight towards Vegas. And let's walk the other way.

[A]

Walk the other way. That's how it goes. Both. Plus there's blood all over both of their clothing and shoes. And blood on the cushion cover that they're carrying. Shell casings matched the guns that are in their possession. The ones from the scene. Bullets and slugs ballistically match the weapons they're carrying. This is not good. The shell casings in Robert's pocket. The shotgun shells also match the scene as well.

[B]

Why the fuck did they do this?

[A]

All fired from the shotgun found in the Ford. They kept that shotgun. The.38 bullets matched Robert's revolver. And the bullets that were in the revolver. The ones they found out by the gas pump. And the.22 casings were consistent with all the weapons. Multiple.22s they had. Three different guns were used on these victims altogether, which is ridiculous. 3. And then a.25 got shot into a cabinet. Which makes no sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're in the blood on Roger's pants. There's blood that matches the blood type of either the victims and Robert as well. But Robertson bleeding Roberts. Yeah. Or Robert. And then Robert shirt. The blood typing can only be from Dean and. And Jackie doesn't match either of them. Because this is pre DNA testing. Everything. Got to imagine. And I don't think there's a DNA center in Grasshopper Junction up there or wherever the.

[B]

I can't imagine. Yeah.

[A]

No. Also the cushion cover is obviously from their house. They left DNA everywhere with the blood on the clothes and pants and all over the goddamn place. The footprints as well. The detective from the photographs and sketches taken matches the footwear to the footprints that they're wearing. Which is interesting. Now during the interrogations they all clam right up. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. But from what it seems like. It seems like Robert eventually cracks.

[B]

Somebody's gonna.

[A]

I mean, Robert eventually cracks and says the evidence is overwhelming. It's like, dude, Jesus Christ, man. You might as well have been carrying one of their heads in your backseat. Like it's that obvious. This is crazy. You have his keys and his scanner and his stuff and his couch cushion cover. What the fuck are you talking about?

[B]

And rolls of coins with his company's name on them stamped on. You're so fucked.

[A]

Ready for the bank?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to give you a better way to dress with quince.

[B]

Quince.comqu I-n c e.com oh yeah, we love quints.

[A]

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[B]

Simplisafe.coms I M P L I safe.com.

[A]

Oh, you know it. I'm telling you that we hear horrible. This is small town murder. The stories we hear are horrendous. So many awful things that could.

[B]

And they happen.

[A]

They happen all the time. Listen, we have 600 something episodes of it and a lot of these could have been very easily prevented by Simplisafe. That's the thing. I'm telling you right now. Yeah, there's so much craziness out there. Can a home security system really call itself security if it's only responding once someone's inside. That's not really security. What good is that? You're being murdered. Who cares at that point? Yeah, come and, come and mop up later. Doesn't matter. You need them to be there beforehand. And that is where simply self, Simply safe. I'm sorry. I love Simplisafe. That is where Simplisafe comes in. There's now a way you can actually stop someone from entering your house. It is SimpleLife and they're AI powered cameras. They detect threats while they're still outside your home and alert real security agents. They can even talk to them and yell at them. It's amazing. This is a game changer. The agents take action while the intruder is still outside. They confront the intruder, letting them know they're being watched on camera and that police are on their way. And they even sound a loud siren. You can trigger a spotlight if needed. This is how you stop a crime before it starts. That's real security. Other systems have cameras that let you talk to intruders, but they require you to see the alert yourself. And then you have to do it. Simplisafe takes care of all that for you. Their monitoring agents have your back and talk to intruders even if they aren't there. There's no long term contracts or hidden fees. You can cancel any time. Named best home security system by U.S. news and World Report for five years running. 60 day money back guarantee. So you can try it and see the difference for yourself. I'm telling you, we use Simplisafe. Yes, on my house, have it on my office, the studio, everything we have. Is Simplisafe protected because there's just no better way to do it than the way they do it. I'm sorry. It's just great stuff. And right now, our listeners, you guys can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com small that's simplisafe.com small. There's no safe like Simplisafe.

[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. So apparently this is what happened. They went in with a 12 gauge, a.38 and a.22 rifle. They said that they were in their bathrobes, possibly awakened from sleep or had just gotten up and were about to have coffee, one or the other. So they forced them to lie down on the living room floor, side by side with Jackie. This is after they had taken Dean around and forced him to try to find things and get money and shit like that. That's why he's out by the backhoe and all that kind of thing. Jackie's reaching out, clutching onto Dean's arm. The.38s came first. Dean took two. Left lower neck and right temple. And Jackie takes at least two to the skull. Then the.22 rifle. Multiple shots to Jackie in the back of the neck, exiting through the face. A fragment lodged in her right hand, possibly a defensive wound. We said Dean has lacerations on his face, elbow, forearm, knee, thigh. He struggled. And then finally they got the shotgun and shot Dean from three feet away behind his left ear, shattering his skull. And put the fucking barrel right up to Jackie's head and shot her brain tissue and scalp all over the walls, couch and table. Then they ransacked. They pulled out drawers and everything. They find his wallet with $800 inside and leave it. They knew about the wallet.

[B]

They knew it was there.

[A]

They left it in the kitchen floor.

[B]

Didn't want to make it look like a robbery.

[A]

Yeah, you know, we wanted to make it look. That's weird because they took all the other money. But they're like, leave that. It'll perplex them, throw them off. Yeah, just like the. It's just like pointing the truck in the wrong direction. Real weird. They took all the other money, though. Like we said, 3,300 in cash, 1,400 in change. Grab the couch cushion because, you know, you can't carry all those rolls of coins. They removed the cash register drawer. They left the Marlboro cigarettes and paper bags. I think they just forgot them. Yep. They turned on the gas thing. They filled their tanks up. They did that. They left the other shit on the patio. The glasses and flashlight and keys. And they found the tow truck keys. And then they were like, ah, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it that way. So we go to trial and they're going to be tried together, which seems right for these two idiots. Robert, the older one, files a motion to be a pro per. He wants to defend himself.

[B]

Really?

[A]

This guy's gonna defend himself now? Robert had become a paralegal, apparently. Oh, sometime in the. In the midst of being a fuck up and everything else, he. He became a paralegal. So he thinks he's a lawyer now.

[B]

He started to get his life together, whereas Roger's just a dumb shit.

[A]

Roger is all criminal from day one. So he said that in the hearing. Robert said, you Honor, I feel that due to, to, due to its, the fact that it's been eight months since this thing started. It's been dragging out around in my opinion. I don't ask the court to proceed by myself as pro per, but as primary counsel, a co counsel appointed from the legal defender's office to assist me in this thing. You know, it might be better to have more control. The state said that hybrid representation is not allowed and that he should not have access to the county law library because of a letter he wrote to Roger stating that he would escape if given the chance and then come back for him. They intercepted a letter that he wrote to his brother. It was all in code too, like they had to decode it. And it said, like, I'm gonna escape.

[B]

Don'T worry, come back and rip a.

[A]

Shit, I'll be back for it. I was just gonna say I'm gonna come back, put like a bunch of horses up to the back of the cell wall. We gonna pull it out and free you like Billy the Kid. So the court said you're entitled to represent yourself if that's what you choose. And of course, if the court finds that you're compet, but you're not entitled to have a co counsel, you can have an advisory council, but you can't, you're going to be doing everything. It's going to be like Lori Valo, remember that? Because that was in Arizona too, once the Coke. If she wants the co counsel to question anybody, even one question, she's out as lawyer. Now the co counsel is the counsel. So it's, that's how it works. They said, you will not be allowed out of, out of jail to do any research. So you need to tell me what your position is, whether you want to represent yourself or if you're willing to stay with the attorney that you've got. And he said, under those terms, I would attempt to be satisfied with another attorney appointed from the legal defender's office. So they have a defense witness, they want to testify. There's a guy named Anthony, that's all we know. He said he saw a blue car parked outside the Grasshopper Junction store on the same night of the murders. Now they drive a white Ford Tempo. Obviously, Anthony told the prosecution's investigator that he thought he saw Dean Morrison with three men, none of them who resembled Robert or Roger. Anthony's testimony would have supported the theory of the defense, which is that Roger and Robert happened to be at Grasshopper Junction but did not commit the murders. What else were you doing? There's literally nothing else there. There's two people in the whole town, and those are them. What were you doing?

[B]

We stumbled upon an already robbed and murdered site and we stole things.

[A]

No, no, no. They're just saying they happen to be there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They're denying the ev. It's crazy, dude. It's insane. So they never called this guy as a witness because apparently their investigator discovered that this Anthony was in a veterans administration treatment center in California. And the investigator was never able to make contact with him again, so he didn't go. Also, they said that the list for the jurors, the juror master list, is a year and a half old on the driver's licenses. For a year and a half, they said. So it contained fewer young people than it would have if it was new. You know, people who just got their license.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And since they're younger, they're arguing that, especially Roger saying, you know, I'm 20 years old here. You know, I should have young people to be as an option for jurors. So it's a jury of my peers.

[B]

Oh, I need.

[A]

I need exact peers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you could find ones from Alabama whose names start with R, that would also help.

[B]

I think some that have brothers with the terrible affliction of shitting their pants, maybe.

[A]

Brothers with pants full of shit. No, that's Robert. He's the one with pants full of shit.

[B]

Oh, he's the one that wants it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He wants. I need pants.

[B]

I need pants. Shitters.

[A]

If you can get them. If you can get them. So they said the presiding judge delegated the responsibility of excusing jurors in another hearing. So anyway, they said the questionnaire did not ask about race, nationality, or place of origin. She excused some who were elderly or could not serve, and they had small children and couldn't get babysitters and all that kind of shit. Now, during the jury selection, the prosecutor strikes the only two Hispanic potential jurors, and they're gonna make a big deal out of this, Even though neither of them are anywhere close to Hispanic. That makes no difference to them. They're two white guys from Alabama. Who gives a shit? All right, so this is a back and forth between a prosecutor and the judge in this, which is. All right. And the defense and the judge altogether. Your honor. First, as to Ms. Pethers, I don't believe that she's Hispanic. She is. Ah, Hispanic is what they said. I don't recall seeing that on her jury questionnaire, and I don't recall if she attempted to talk Hispanic to me. What the fuck does that mean? So I'm not sure that's a showing. And the defense said. The questionnaire did indicate that she's Hispanic, you, Honor. I believe her maiden name was Garcia, but her first name is Christina. So the court said. I remember she said her mother's name is Garcia. And the prosecutor said, right. I'm not sure that's Hispanic Garcia, as opposed to Spanish. The amount. Well, she's in Arizona. We can assume if she's Garcia, more likely to be Mexican than from Spain. I would say just an experience of living in Arizona forever.

[B]

I would certainly say that her lineage travels through one or both of those places.

[A]

Yes. I was a process server. I remember having a woman named Ana Garcia that I had to hunt for seven months because everybody in Arizona is named fucking Ana Garcia. Every single woman. I found out 86% of the Arizona population is named Ana Garcia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God. It was horrible to do. So anyway, she says, I know her mother. I know about her mother from the prosecutor. I could be wrong. The court says I'll have to take a recess to look at the questionnaires. Blah, blah, blah. The prosecutor said, you, Honor, the state recently did a major drug investigation of her mother and her mother's brother. This is a juror they're talking about. It's a very big case. Both of those defendants went to jail for a time. I'm not sure of the status of Mrs. Garcia. From what Mrs. Pether said, the charge was dismissed. I believe there's been some sort of negotiated deal, but I'm not positive about that. I know both of these people were heavy into drugs. Both the people around them were suspected of being in drugs. There's a forfeiture action proceeding against Garcia. This being the daughter, I don't believe that she. I don't want her on the jury for those reasons. Possible bias.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then there's another guy named Alvarado, the only other Hispanic guy, and they said he was dismissed. This is fucking amazing. The prosecutor said Mr. Alvarado is Hispanic, and it was a close call on that strike. What I went on is that Mr. Alvarado told the court he knows me and I know him not well. I'm going to basically. I'm going basically on my personal knowledge of Mr. Alvarado. Five or six years ago, I was dating a lady who was a nurse. He can't Be a juror. We're getting into various social functions, parties and whatnot. I met Mr. Alvarado possibly a half dozen times anyway and I had discussions with him. The social functions at these parties. My recollection of Mr. Alvarado is he's a very nice person. He is too nice. He said you couldn't get him to disagree with you. He just didn't want to hurt anybody. He's just indecisive is my recollection of him. My strike on him is solely going back to my personal knowledge of meeting him numerous times. This is ridiculous. Why do they all know each other?

[B]

Well, that's what happens up here.

[A]

Yeah, they have to. That was another one of his things was. You didn't do a wide enough jury pool here. They put in some real vicious photos, man. These are extremely explicit, these photos. I mean, just lots of a table leg with an attached chunk of scalp and hair, shit like that. Yep. I mean, just the most graphic pictures. You can show her head with the scalp blown away. Exposing the brain and bone matter.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Yeah, things like that. Also, all the evidence we mentioned before, all that connects them. Now, Roger argues that the trial court's denial of his request for expenses for an out of state expert on the foot footprint identification meant that they shouldn't have been able to put the footprint stuff in. He requested the trial court authorized $3,000 before trial for additional investigation and expenses for use as they determined, which would cost more than that just to get a footprint expert. They put the detective lent up about the footprints. Now, they said that they were challenged his methodology, that he didn't follow FBI procedures, didn't cast the prints, didn't use a tripod for photos and said they were. The footprints were improperly admitted. Because he's not qualified as an expert as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, they said. But the prosecution said shaky. Shaky.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

His qualifications and background included extensive tracking and criminal investigations, tracking livestock, military training and the examination of enemy trails, hunting, trapping, training from an experienced Department of Public Safety officer, teaching numerous classes and tracking and footprint. It doesn't matter. You had their blood and brains all over you. Ridiculous.

[B]

But the tracking. He didn't have the fucking ring light.

[A]

This is bullshit. This is bullshit. So the verdict in this case, with all of this, I mean, the evidence is overwhelming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They had everything connecting them. They're throwing guns out the window. They're found guilty.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Two counts of first degree murder each. One count of armed robbery each. And it's also premeditated murder and felony murder. So this Is bad for sentencing. They're going for the death penalty on both of them. Let's wipe this family off the face of the earth. We'll kill them both. Which even in World War II, I don't think they'd make both brothers go. Right?

[B]

I don't think you're allowed. Yeah, I mean, that's the whole point of saving Private Ryan.

[A]

Yeah, he's gotta get his ass home. So. Jesus Christ. We're gonna kill Matt Damon and all his brothers now? Fuck em all. So aggravating circumstances. They did it for monetary gain. Especially heinous. Cruel or depraved. And multiple murders.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Mitigation. Robert said bad childhood. Father beat him with fists. He shit his pants and was never treated for it. Forced to quit school and work for an illegal business. He also claims he was intoxicated from the Temple Bar that night as well. And also a doctor who evaluated him for this finds him clearly rehabilitatable.

[B]

Clearly.

[A]

Clearly obvious. Says that he had relatively minor participation. Roger was the ringleader these six years younger brother's the ringleader. He's more of a criminal. But you tell your younger brother six years younger, hey, stupid, we're not doing that. My brother's nine years younger. If he said we're go kill somebody, what are you, a fucking asshole? Shut up. Be the end of it. And he'd go, oh, yeah, you're right. Just because that's how older brother sibling relationships work. So potential for rehabilitation. Nonviolent criminal history he has, which is interesting. Robert presents a videotape and a transcript in which one William Mater, a detainee in the cell next to Roger discussed with an officer conversations he had with Roger. This guy stated that he had a number of conversations with Roger in which Roger admitted killing Morrison and Applehans. And Robert also elicited evidence that Robert is the leader. Or Roger's the leader, Robert's the follower.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The court rejects this evidence here. Also rejects the evidence of intoxication. Based on witnesses who said, they didn't look drunk to me. They said they never had good role models, you know, shitting himself, nobody helping him. Roger said, I'm 20 at the time, I have hyperactivity, possible ADHD, head injuries. The juvenile system has failed me.

[B]

Ruined me.

[A]

Yeah, but I mean, Jesus Christ, this is too much, man. I mean, it's overwhelming, especially his background. They have his school records and all that kind of shit. So the judge's words on Robert is, or Roger, quote, the offenses were not impulsive, but planned in advance. You purchased a Shotgun. You circled the atlas. You chose your victims by an isolated manner. On Robert, they acknowledged that he might have a potential for rehabilitation, but that's outweighed by the enormity of this crime. You sirs may fuck off. Death penalty for both of you.

[B]

Dang.

[A]

Both of you get the death.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

I'm not gonna talk about the appeal, cuz we have no time. But Roger raised 56 claims on appeal.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, that was everything. The footprints were a big deal, shit like that. He also claims prosecutorial misconduct because detention officers in the courthouse library said that the defendants were using the fecal defense of throwing anything up against the wall and hoping it sticks.

[B]

That when this guy's got this many problems.

[A]

The fecal defense, that's hilarious. So there's all of that. There are multiple. Appeals are denied. The evidence is just overwhelming. It's just too much.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

There's no way you can say could have been that guy. No, it can't. June 28, 2014. Robert, the older one, dies in prison.

[B]

What?

[A]

He's pronounced dead at age 49 of natural causes.

[B]

I don't think they look good.

[A]

Natural causes at 49. The fuck is natural about that?

[B]

He died of some shit. I mean, in 1812. That's an old man.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Good Lord. Well, sure, he was raised with no running water, but these people from the 60s and 70s here. And then finally, Roger. I'm gonna read part of Roger's essay that he wrote called the Face of Evil. And he says real quick, we'll go over this. What does evil look like? Does it have a face? Can we see it? Taste or smell its presence? Does it laugh or smile? The short answer is perhaps yes. You already wanna punch Roger. Every day I converse with the men society has deemed unfit to live. Men considered the poster children of evil. Yeah, Death row. Touted by the media as the worst of the worst for the senseless act of murder. I often wonder what's going through the mind of someone who premeditates the murder of another human being. Well, think you'll find it deliberately pursues this murder for 10, 15, 20, even 25 years down the road. Are these people deranged? What are we to make of this relentless pursuit of murder for decades? This person must be a psychopath with lust for murder. Evil. Perhaps these people live among the unsuspecting public, practicing their trade under the legal guise of the office of the prosecutor. See?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Gonna hold you in there. See how I flipped it? I flipped it. I reside around an odd assortment of characters. Mass murderers, serial killers, rapists, assassins, and more than one whom choose to quarter his victim for ease of disposing of the corpse. One man resides nearby who even the police admits wasn't at the crime scene to participate in the murder. We know that case by the way. He has since committed suicide, unable to bear living on the row as an innocent man. If evil exists in human form, then I have an excellent chance of coming face to face with it here on death row. I won't read any more. You can see where this is going. So it's long though.

[B]

He's embarrassed.

[A]

It's embarrassed, yeah. Dean is buried in Cass City, Michigan, where he's from. So there you go, everybody. That is Grasshopper Junction. Real quickly. Shut upandgivemerder.com October 18th, get your tickets for Seattle at the Moore. The Thursday before Halloween. Get your tickets for the virtual live show that we're fucking jacked about. It's available for two weeks after it. It's going to be costumes and fun, just like a regular live show. Can't fucking wait. Shut upandgimurder.com patreon.com crimeinsports all your bonus material ad free. Everything like that this week. Crime and sports, rock and jock specials we'll make fun of. And Small town murder, the Unkn number documentary. You get it all. Of course, there's that. So keep coming back, hanging out with us. Patreon.com crimeinsports do that. Shutupandgivemerder.com has links to everything you might need. That said, thank you so much everybody. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Don't shit your pants.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Sam.