Murder Mystery Gone Wild - Payson, Utah

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder – "Murder Mystery Gone Wild - Payson, Utah"

Introduction

In the episode titled "Murder Mystery Gone Wild - Payson, Utah," hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the perplexing and tragic murder of Dr. K. Mortensen in Payson, Utah. Blending meticulous research with their signature comedic flair, the duo unravels a case fraught with twists, wrongful accusations, and eventual resolution.

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1. Background of Payson, Utah

Payson, Utah, a town in Utah County with a population of approximately 21,093, serves as the setting for this intricate murder mystery. Known for its strong Mormon community (93.3% of residents), low unemployment rates, and a median household income slightly above the national average, Payson presents a façade of tranquility and safety.

• Historical Context: Founded in 1850 by Edward Pace Jr. and other settlers, Payson evolved from its original name, Petite Neat Creek, into a burgeoning small town. The establishment of industries like the Utah Idaho Sugar Company and events such as the Onion Days Festival highlight the town's agricultural roots and community spirit.

James Pietragallo [05:03]: "The settlement was originally named Petite Neat Creek, after which Chief Petit Neat was named."

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2. Dr. K. Mortensen: The Victim

Dr. K. Mortensen, born July 6, 1939, in Ephraim, Utah, was a respected metallurgy professor at Brigham Young University (BYU). A dedicated family man, Mortensen was known for his academic prowess, frugal lifestyle, and extensive prepping habits, including the accumulation of firearms and the construction of a fortified underground bunker.

• Personal Life: Married to Hermona Anderson, Mortensen had four children. Following his divorce from Hermona, he remarried Pamela Ann, who softened some of his more extreme prepping tendencies but did not alter his fundamental distrust of society.

Jimmy Wissman [12:23]: "This is Brigham Young's Zion. You don't get that in Saudi Arabia, for fuck's sake. That's... That's insane."

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3. The Murder Incident

On November 16, 2009, tragedy struck when Dr. Mortensen was brutally murdered in his home. The initial 911 call came from his son, Roger Mortensen, who reported that intruders had invaded the house, tying up the family members and committing the heinous act.

• Description of the Crime Scene:
  • Mortensen was found hanging over the bathtub with his throat severely slashed and multiple stab wounds.
  • Evidence suggested a calculated attack, with specific weapons missing from various strategic locations in the home.
  • Unusual signs included seasoned meat on the stovetop, indicating the preparation of a meal amidst the chaos.

James Pietragallo [66:55]: "There's certainly been a scene. They go upstairs to find that Kay's body is indeed in the bathroom, hanging over the edge of the tub with his throat slashed."

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4. Initial Investigation and Wrongful Accusations

Given Mortensen's well-known prepping habits and amassed firearms, suspicion initially fell on his son, Roger, and Roger's wife, Pam. Their financial struggles and high stakes as potential heirs to Mortensen's estate made them prime suspects.

• Arrest of Roger and Pam:
  • Inconsistencies: Roger and Pam's accounts of the night of the murder contained numerous inconsistencies, particularly regarding the number and description of the intruders.
  • Behavior: Their subdued demeanor and failed polygraph tests further fueled suspicions.
  • Charges: They faced first-degree murder and obstruction of justice charges but maintained their innocence, claiming to have been victims themselves.

James Pietragallo [89:57]: "And then the killer told a prayer... so they said, you were telling the truth. They know who you are. Shit. With the truck driver."

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5. Revelation of the Real Culprits

The breakthrough in the case came from an anonymous tip linking the murder to Martin Bond and Ben Reddick, acquaintances of the Mortensen family.

• Martin Bond and Ben Reddick:
  • Both 23 years old with no prior criminal history.
  • Bond, a childhood friend, admitted involvement through jail notes and later testimony, implicating Reddick as the actual perpetrator.
  • Collaboration: They orchestrated the robbery, forcibly tying up the family and murdering Dr. Mortensen to steal his firearms.

Jimmy Wissman [116:09]: "Imagine telling a story that's true and nobody believes you."

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6. Trial and Convictions

• Grand Jury Proceedings:

  • Despite initial wrongful accusations, the grand jury was presented with evidence pointing to Bond and Reddick.
  • Bond's trial revealed he acted under duress, claiming Reddick forced him to commit the murder.

• Outcomes:

  • Martin Bond: Convicted of aggravated murder, kidnapping, burglary, and robbery. Received life without the possibility of parole.
  • Ben Reddick: Pleaded guilty to aggravated murder and kidnapping in exchange for a reduced sentence. Received 25 years to life.

James Pietragallo [115:57]: "They said, you got anything to say for yourself, Marty? Sure do. He said, if I really was the monster everyone thinks I am, then Roger and Pam wouldn't be sitting here today."

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7. Aftermath and Legal Battles

Following their exoneration, Roger and Pam Mortensen faced immense social ostracization and legal hurdles, including unsuccessful lawsuits against law enforcement for wrongful accusations. The ruling underscored flaws in the grand jury system, particularly the inability for defendants to present their side during proceedings.

Jimmy Wissman [126:27]: "You're allowed to lie because you're a cop. That's the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard."

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8. Media Coverage and Public Perception

The case garnered significant media attention, featuring on shows like Dateline and Trace of Evil. Public opinion was deeply divided, with many initially condemning Roger and Pam before embracing the truth of their innocence.

James Pietragallo [160:30]: "Check this wild ass shit out. So more recently it was covered in an episode of Trace of Evil titled the Perplexing Case of K. Mortensen, which aired in 2021."

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Conclusion

The murder of Dr. K. Mortensen in Payson, Utah, is a harrowing tale of misunderstanding, wrongful accusation, and ultimate justice. Hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman effectively highlight the complexities of the case, emphasizing the critical role of thorough investigation and the perils of initial biases. This episode serves as a stark reminder of the importance of seeking the full truth before passing judgment.

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Notable Quotes

• James Pietragallo [05:03]: "The settlement was originally named Petite Neat Creek, after which Chief Petit Neat was named."
• Jimmy Wissman [12:23]: "This is Brigham Young's Zion. You don't get that in Saudi Arabia, for fuck's sake. That's... That's insane."
• James Pietragallo [66:55]: "There's certainly been a scene. They go upstairs to find that Kay's body is indeed in the bathroom, hanging over the edge of the tub with his throat slashed."
• Jimmy Wissman [116:09]: "Imagine telling a story that's true and nobody believes you."
• James Pietragallo [89:57]: "And then the killer told a prayer... so they said, you were telling the truth. They know who you are. Shit. With the truck driver."
• James Pietragallo [115:57]: "They said, you got anything to say for yourself, Marty? Sure do. He said, if I really was the monster everyone thinks I am, then Roger and Pam wouldn't be sitting here today."
• Jimmy Wissman [126:27]: "You're allowed to lie because you're a cop. That's the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard."
• James Pietragallo [160:30]: "Check this wild ass shit out. So more recently it was covered in an episode of Trace of Evil titled the Perplexing Case of K. Mortensen, which aired in 2021."

---

Final Thoughts

"Murder Mystery Gone Wild - Payson, Utah" is a compelling episode that not only narrates a tragic event but also critiques systemic issues within the justice system. Through engaging storytelling and sharp humor, James and Jimmy invite listeners to reflect on the importance of due process and the human cost of miscarried justice.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

This week in Payson, Utah, a horrifying and bloody scene at a local house leads detectives to suspect two people who say they were tied up and spared by the murderers for a very strange reason. Is it the truth? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I am Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you, folks so much for joining us today on an absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. This is crazy today. The twists and turns in this story. It's a wild mystery and it's just crazy. I'll never expect what happens to happen. So tune in for that. Before we get to that, shutupandgivemerder.com is the place to get not only all your merchandise for all the shows, crime and sports, your stupid opinions and Small Town Murder, but that's where you get the tickets. Yeah, live shows. Go get your tickets right now. Starting again in the fall. Right now there are seats left in Seattle, in Philly and D.C. so get in there and get those tickets. I think there might be a couple left of the ones we released from San Diego too. So check them out. Possible. I'm not sure. You can look and see and maybe. So do that. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Come out and see a live show. Really? Because it's not like it's a lecture. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. You will be laughing. It's a good time. And you get the pictures and the visuals and the jokes. It's good stuff there. Also, when you're doing that, go to Patreon and get yourself some patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports like the name of our other show. That is where you're going to get all the bonus material. And there's a lot of it. Anybody, $5 a month or above, you're going to get hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard. You can binge that immediately upon subscription. And then you get new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder, and you get it all. This week we're going to do some updates for Crime and Sports because BJ Penn has been absolutely crazy with. I mean, we're talking. People have. He says that people have kidnapped his family and replaced them with identical replicas and stuff. Like it's crazy. We'll talk about that then. For Small Town Murder, we're gonna discuss this Amy Bradley thing. We did poop cruise last time. We'll stay on the ships here and you'll hear that and go, wow, the poop cruise wasn't so bad because we still don't know what happened to Amy Bradley. And we'll talk all about that mysterious disappearance on Patreon, that is patreon.com and you get a shout out at the end of the show. And now you get all three shows that we put out with your Patreon subscription. Crime and Sports, you stupid opinions. And both Small Town murders will be ad free on there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There it is. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just a quick program note. There's a couple glitches where sometimes people will listen and they'll get an ad. And it's a weird thing. It comes from our regular feed and we have a baked in ad and a regular feed and we replace the file quickly. But if people have an automatic download, it goes right to that. What I'm saying is none of that matters. In a couple weeks we'll be phasing out any baked in ads, so that will never happen again. So patience for a couple weeks. We're figuring it out and we're doing this. We're trying to put two different systems together and make it work. So there you go. So sign up for Patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports Time for the disclaimer. Hey, everybody, it's a comedy show first and foremost, but everything is real. Nothing is made up for comedic effect. And we try to do the most meticulous of research, better than a, you know, better than Dateline or something, and also have jokes. So that's what we're working on here. So you get that and you go, well, how do you do that? How is murder funny? Well, it's very easy. You can make it funny. Sometimes people go, hey, I think I can get away with murder. And you go, I'm going to make fun of that guy. That's a dumb idea. Just as simple as that. But what we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do, is we never make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. See how that works there? It's very easy to do. So if you think that, if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together, you might not like the show, but you might like the show either way. Check it out. No complaining later. That said, I think it's time, everybody, let's sit back, let's all Clear the lungs here. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout, give me murder. Let's do this. Everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? We shall. Heading to Utah this week. This is Payson, Utah. P, A Y, S O, N. Just like in Arizona. Same thing. What do you mean? What is it? It's a town in Utah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Why is it so important?

[James Petregallo]

There's a few. This, I'm not sure exactly, but there's a family named Pace. We'll get into it with the history. This is in north central Utah. It's about 20 minutes to Provo, about an hour to Salt Lake City.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Way up north.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, up north there, but not too far from things. It's about 3 hours and 50 minutes to lucen, Utah, which was our last episode here. Murder selfies where the guy was. Yeah, there was pictures involved. And not a smart. Not a smart guy with the murder there. So this is in Utah county. And they really put their heads together to think about that one. Utah county area code 801. And they don't really have a motto, but it says everywhere, all over the town. Home to the Onion Days Festival.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gross.

[James Petregallo]

The Onion Days. Days of onions. Sounds like too many onions.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Little bit of history of this joint here. The. The Mormons found this place as a lot of Utah. They were the first ones to kind of settle here. They came. Edward Pace Jr. Was the first person to settle here. Now, I'm not sure if Pace. Payson, but it's Pace. So I'm not sure how that came about. That's all I can think of here. So, yeah, they showed up in 1850 with his family and the families of a couple other people, 16 people in all, arrived at the Petite. Whoa. Petite Neat Creek.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Petite, Neat.

[James Petregallo]

Petite Neat Creek. A lot of ease in there. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Ease in. Petite Neat. A lot of ease. The settlement was originally named Petite Neat Creek, after which Chief Petit Neat was named. And. Yeah, so they started doing that. In January 1853, the territorial governor, Brigham Young, you know, Steve Young's great, great grandfather or whatever, he submitted a bill to the second Utah Territorial Legislature to incorporate Payson as a city. And they passed that act. And it had some stuff going on here for a while. They had an Opera House in 1883.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

An opera house? Yeah. That's kind of like highfalutin for like some Western, small Western town full of Mormons.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Those opera houses oftentimes just did plays and shit too, I suppose.

[James Petregallo]

But, I mean, they Built it as an opera house. So you assume they would be thinking about opera. Which I didn't know. I didn't even know opera was allowed in Utah. It wasn't positive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Seems like the right place for it. Really.

[James Petregallo]

No. It's a bunch of. It's. It's a bunch of passionate Italians. It's the least.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The last place they would be. That's what an opera is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Bunch of shit they can't understand too emotion and. Yeah. They don't know what the hell they're saying there. In the late 1800s, a factory making horse collars operated in Payson. Oh, exciting. Wow. The Strawberry Valley Reclamation project was completed in 1912. And then the Utah Idaho Sugar Company decided to place a sugar beet processing factory in the area. Sugar beets. So that sugar beets became the big deal. Then in 1897, the beet leaf hopper, which is an insect, ate all of the sugar beets basically. And destroyed. Destroyed everything. Yep. So they ended up reducing the sugar beets and just planting other shit. Because they were done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was over with bugs.

[James Petregallo]

And I think the spot of that now is a fertilizer factory now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

They were processing this stuff. Reviews of this town. Here's five stars. I've lived in a near Payson my whole life. It is my home. The people are fun and the surrounding areas make it a great place to raise a family and be with friends.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I mean your typical five star review of a place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure, sure.

[James Petregallo]

I love it. It's nice. I grew up here. Here's three stars. City struggles to keep up on street repair. I mean it's cold there. So. Yeah. Shit. Cracks, gets cold, gets warm. Streets break. Happens. Go to Michigan and then complain.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Can't be heard. I want to hear. Not enough traffic lights versus the amount of people. Businesses struggle to stay here. The planning is poor. So in one breath there's not enough traffic light.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I want to stop more. What are you talking about?

[James Petregallo]

Apparently it makes chaos. I don't know what the hell they're talking about, but they're saying there's so many people. But then businesses struggle to stay open. So I don't understand it. How is there so many people at the businesses.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Businesses.

[James Petregallo]

I don't get it. It has to be. Here's two stars. The attitude around the city is we have been a crappy little town forever. The there is no reason to get better in anything we do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's history now.

[James Petregallo]

It's history.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's our legacy.

[James Petregallo]

It's really our heritage. And we Embrace it. We're run with it. We're going to just run with that. People in this town. 21,093. So not a big place, not a small place. And it's been growing a lot in the last 20 years. So it was a much smaller place a while back. A few more males than females, which is kind of not the norm almost. It's about 51.5% men, which is weird. Median age here much lower than normal, which is common for high LDs areas. Because if you have eight kids and two parents, the median age of that family goes way down. You know what I mean? So the median age here is 26.7.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which is very low. It's usually 38 and a half in the rest of the country. So that tells you something in this town here, 56% married, which is above the average. We have a lower than average divorce rate. 53.2% of the people here are married with children, which is very high. Yeah, very, very high here. Race in this town, 84.1% white, 0.1% black, 0.3% Asian, and let's see, 13 and a half percent Hispanic. So that's how it breaks down in this town. Now normally, 50, 50 is normal for religion. Average for the rest of the country. And we've seen it in the 80s and went, wow, that's pretty high. 95.7% of the people here are religious. I'm gonna Repeat that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

95.7% of people anywhere shouldn't agree on anything. First of all, they shouldn't agree on that. You know, water keeps you hydrated. Like you can't get 96% of people to agree to anything. Put anything on the Internet and see what happens. Put I like. Just post I like puppies and see the response. Well, I like cats. There'll be people fighting about this and that and the puppies suck. And puppies are great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Eventually. There's a I like snakes girl.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you don't want her. You don't want the I like snakes one. And that's a good chunk of our audience, by the way. Sorry, snake girls. We get it. We're scared of you, though. We understand. You're fine and you're normal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You love it.

[James Petregallo]

We're a little frightened. That's all we're saying. It's more on us as men. We're a little. Frightens us a bit. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's embarrassing.

[James Petregallo]

It's not about you, it's about our problems. 93.3% of this people, people in this Town are Mormon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It is heavy.

[James Petregallo]

93.3% are one. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is Brigham Young's Zion.

[James Petregallo]

You don't get that in Saudi Arabia, for fuck's sake. That's. That's insane. Wow. Low unemployment here. Median household income slightly above the national average. $75,682.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So yeah, they do.

[James Petregallo]

Well, slightly above. Yeah, that's. That's good. Anyway, if you're gonna have a bunch of kids, you better make some money. So the cost of living here, 100 is average in the rest of the country. Here it is 117. It's a little expensive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And housing is the expensive part. Median home cost here, 425,000 bucks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which is a little pricey. If you're making 75 grand a year and have five kids, that's a lot. So I don't know how they work that out, but we'll find out. Because maybe you have thought about. You've gotten a knock at your door recently and you said, you know what, I'm going to hear these young men out. And maybe you have a move planned. We have for you the Payson Utah real estate report. All right. Your average two bedroom rental here goes for $1,130, which is actually below the national average because. And I'm not trying to make fun, but of think about who lives here. It's a bunch of families with a lot of kids. A two bedroom apartment is doing them no good. Yeah, no, no. There is young people though. And there's a college in Provo and some of the people. Kids live here because it's cheaper apparently. Here is a two bedroom, two bath. I mean mobile home with. Here, look, I'll show you. With corrugated shit around the. You know that's an orange actual. Yeah, that's a trailer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy. That is a 10 foot wide.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's crazy. Single wide trailer, 910 square feet. Not looking great. It's yellow and brown. That tells you a lot too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Two bad colors together.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's. Tony Gwynn lives here. Other than that, there's no excuse. Unless you're a padre. Great. This is $110,000 for that. Which seems steep. I'm gonna be honest here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And you gotta pay lot fee probably. Unless you get the land. If you get the land. And that's probably what it is.

[James Petregallo]

It does not say land like amount of land. So I think you're just buying a trailer. Here is a. What is this one? A three bedroom, two bath. Looks like about 1250 square feet. Here. Check this thing out. Just your average lot of like weird manufactured home, right? It's a manufactured home with a lot of awning. There's just a lot of awning. Every window has awning over it and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A garage that's like way in the back.

[James Petregallo]

Way back there. Yeah, it's weird. It looks like a little restaurant with all these awnings though. It's real strange shit. The kitchen is all hgtv, white cabinets and all that crap. So you got that $312,000 for that thing though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You have to be shitting me.

[James Petregallo]

No, that does not look worth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, that's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

That is crazy. And then finally a nine bedroom, seven bath. There we go. Jesus. 8,504 square foot thing. Look. Look at this thing. It's just a big old compound, basically. Yeah, that thing is giant big flagstone walkway and all that. It's pretty nice. All your wives, all of everybody, all the kids, everything. So it's a pretty nice. Nice manicured. A lot of landscaping. It's gonna cost you to keep that up. 2,999,900 bucks. So, yeah. Little much. I would say a little much. Probably 3 million bucks for that. Now, things to do here. The aforementioned Payson City Golden Onion Days.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Is that going to be yellow onions? I guess.

[James Petregallo]

I suppose so. They don't say the worst onions. The yellow onions. Most useless. Whites have their taste. White onions have the nice flavor. Red onions are great. I love an Italian guy, so I love a red onion and everything, but.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not those yellow onions on a pizza.

[James Petregallo]

Those yellow, yellow onions are garbage.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Poor people, onions. They're just disgusting.

[James Petregallo]

Those are like when I lived in that apartment. The guys below me remember every night they would sweat down onions. It was. You had to close all the windows and everything. That was. They were yellow onions. You could smell them. I don't know what they were doing down there, but they were sweating down. They bought 30 gallon pot of onions every night, those people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They bought those from a grocery store that has flies on the. On the produce.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, for sure. Yeah. They were like extra onions that they didn't need anymore. So this celebration was held first in 1929 as an opportunity for residents and former residents to renew old friendships and make new ones. If you don't live there anymore, what the hell do you care? That's weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You gotta make new friendships, Jason.

[James Petregallo]

New friends with new people. Originally known as the Onion Harvest and Homecoming, the event honored Payson's status as an agricultural district and outstanding producer of onions.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Outstanding.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They renamed it Payson City Golden Onion Days. And that's what it is now. It's held every year, Labor Day weekend. There's concerts that they don't tell you who's going to be there, which doesn't help. There's a carnival, there's a car show, 5k, 10k parade, fireworks, a baby contest. Doesn't say a baby beauty contest. Just who's the most baby out of this?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That one looks like a baby.

[James Petregallo]

Hold on, let me smell its breath. Yeah, that's a baby. I smell this breath formula in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nipple breath.

[James Petregallo]

It's nipple breath. I smell it. That's definitely a baby. So there's that now in 2024, they said from an article leading up to the 2024 show. I almost said festival, they said. There's been a lot of excitement around the city of Payson in recent months from a successful push to bring actor Kevin Bacon back, back to the city. And it's high school for the 40th anniversary of the movie Footloose to the revamping of the city. I believe so. So this is the town you're not allowed to dance in. You know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, I can. I know why now.

[James Petregallo]

But like when they were making this movie, they said, we need a place to film that looks like you're not allowed to dance in.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Looks like it's no fun.

[James Petregallo]

And they said, Payson, Utah. Boom. Nailed it. So that's where we're at. Wow. There's also the Payson Scottish Festival. Okay, Okay. I didn't know there was Scottish Mormons, but let's find out what they do there. They have, let's see, there's a two day festival that kind of kills the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whole point of being Scottish, doesn't it? You don't even drink.

[James Petregallo]

That's so weird. Yeah, well, imagine a Scottish guy getting 3.2 beer. They'd be so pissed. So mad. Jesus.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A mouthwash.

[James Petregallo]

I've had 14 of these. I can't feel a thing. You're right, cunt fox.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I still feel everything.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. They have a Strongman competition at 4:00'. Clock. Then there's a piping area. Piping just. This is where you hang out. Pipe. This is where you do your piping. There is a bag piping solo competition.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

How much do you want to bet somebody every year does like Sweet Child of Mine solo on a bagpipe, though?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that a. Is that a multi instrument? You know, I mean, like, can you. Can you lead? Can you lead bagpipe and rhythm. Bagpipe. Is there?

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah, yeah. There's a whole. There's there's groups of pipers, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They got a piper.

[James Petregallo]

I feel like the pipes, they're all on the same frequency though. They just do the same thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's not a. There's not a bass, piper.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody play low, you play high. I'm not sure how that works here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's weird.

[James Petregallo]

But there's a solo competition.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then the band's playing. We have 5:30pm Benson plays B E N S U N Benson. Yeah, they'll be there. At 6:30. The Payson High School Pipe Band plays. That's. I want to see high schoolers do bagpipes. That sounds great. They only get. They only get a 15 minute set. The pipe band.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I mean how much bagpipe can you listen to?

[James Petregallo]

There's a solo competition, so probably a lot. That's probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It seems like at a funeral, Irish funeral or any Boston cop funeral. The bag so fucking long.

[James Petregallo]

They're long and they're loud. Then at 6646 45, the Bonnie Knees contest. Knees. K N E E S knees. And it says anyone in a kilt can enter. Who has the most attractive knees? I'm not sure. At 7pm Dragon Keel teach Irish dancers. Okay. 7:50 the men of Worth will be performing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh boy. I gotta have them. 8:35, the useless ones. Yeah. The Men of little Value. Follow them. The AML Trio. After that on Saturday they have a drum major competition from 8am to 4:30pm on the field they say Scottish heavy athletics. That's all they say. I was going to say that includes like a bar fighting competition. And there's many different ones.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somebody getting glassed.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. They have. The Men of Worth are back. They have two sets that day. Fiddler's rally. Well three sets. Men of Worth play at 12, 2 and 5. God dang, these guys just too much. And then there's a dance. Dance competitions in the elementary school auditorium. So everyone wants to show up for that crime rate in this town. What we are interested in now, you'd figure these nice God fearing Mormon people there'd be no crime at all. Well, property crime right about average in the United States. So I don't know what the hell's going on here, but something's happening. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is less than half. It's under half the average. So pretty. Not even half. So safe. As far as violence goes with the property grind, it's pretty high. That said, let's talk about some real weird murder here. Let's talk about some vicious shit that. Wow, is this a messed up story. Okay, let's start out with a man. We'll talk about here. A really interesting eccentric guy. Okay, interesting guy. Dr. K. Mortensen. M O R T E, N S E, N. Mortensen. K A Y. K A Y. He's a man. K. Sherman Mortensen. And K is his whole first name too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Family name.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That is a very common thing in the Mormon religion to just give like the name J or like J, and they'd spell it J A Y, like. Like that's your middle name.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. So they do that and it's almost like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Em, I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

So then after that, if a Mormon joined Heaven's Gate, he'd be Coyote after that. So it makes it easier for those.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Much easier to remember their name.

[James Petregallo]

As.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You transition to the ship.

[James Petregallo]

Totally. Just a hop, skip and a jump.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's very similar.

[James Petregallo]

They're both getting ships and planets. Dr. K. Sherman Mortensen. He's born July 6, 1939, in Ephraim. Ephraim, Utah. How do you say that? Is it A, I, N, no, A, E, P, H, R, A, I, M. Ephraim. I think it's Efraim. One of those. It doesn't matter. It's the only time it's going to be mentioned because he's born there, so doesn't matter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good for you for being Ephraim.

[James Petregallo]

Moving along, moving along. His parents were Sherman, which is where I'm sure he got the middle name from. And Roxy Mortensen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I like that name.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of old timey Mormon ladies named Roxy, but she was. That's so strange. So, yeah, he was born there. He's the oldest in his family. He's got some siblings here. He's got, let's see, one, two, three, four siblings, including his sister Fern, who they keep kind of close over the years here. He grew up on a farm. I mean, okay, yeah, grew up on a farm in Utah. Basically spent his childhood helping his father raise sheep and, you know, hunting and all that kind of thing. Really loves farming and farm equipment and livestock and all that kind of thing. And throughout his whole life, he'll raise cows and crops and he always has something going on. But he's also extremely interested in, like, academic pursuits and scholarly shit, as we'll talk about. He's not just like, well, I'm a farmer. He wants to know engineering and mechanics and he's interesting guy. He finds a wife pretty early on named Hermona Anderson. Hermona? Yes, her Mona. That's her Mona, not my Mona. Yeah. They end up having four children together. They have Roger K. He's the firstborn. He's born in about 1962. Then they have Julie, Janet, and then Paul is the youngest. So that's how that goes. They have four kids and. Yeah, they're raising them in a Mormon church and all that kind of thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Doing it, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, Kay, though, like I said, very interested in academics. He graduates from Snow College and then Utah State University, and then he ends up graduating also from the University of Utah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sick.

[James Petregallo]

So he graduated from three colleges.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a busy kid.

[James Petregallo]

Imagine that. Neither of us went to one college. He graduated from three of them. That's incredible. I'm impressed, man. I'm impressed. He got a PhD in metallurgy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that? It's a science, right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Science of how metals are made and all metal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I guess the root word, so I should have known that.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dummy.

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's because you didn't graduate from three colleges.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I didn't even step on college campus.

[James Petregallo]

That's why. We're stupid. And this guy's smart, so he got a PhD. So he's doctor.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dr. Metal Man. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Dr. Metal Man. That sounds like a fucking Rock on title right there. That's somebody's guitar player in the 80s. Hey, what's up? I'm Chuck, this is Steve, and this is Dr. Metal the Shredder Man. He fucking rips me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We are the metal man.

[James Petregallo]

We are the metal man. So he graduates from all these different places. He works a few years as a metallurgy person. Metallurgist, I don't know. Then he became a faculty member at byu, where he will teach courses in manufacturing, design, engineering technology and mechanical engineering.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So very smart guy. Real smart guy. Known as a really smart guy. Like, very well respected amongst the other professors and scholars is like, that's a smart guy. You know, we all know that he's going to end up teaching for more than 30 years at BYU.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He also does mentoring programs where he mentors undergraduate and graduate students. He does these lecture series. He's extremely bright guy. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you where to get amazing cereal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Magic spoon, magicspoon.com.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you know it. I love cereal. I've talked about it. I'm kind of a cereal junkie. I love it a lot. And I'm picky about my cereal too. Yeah, extremely picky. But Magic Spoon gives you some great stuff. Really good cereals and they make high protein, zero sugar cereal and treats reinvented from your childhood. So experience all the good nostalgia without all the bad stuff that comes with the cereals.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All the sugar.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. I love it. I love it. It tastes so good too. That's the thing. It really does. And every serving of Magic Spoon high protein cereal has 13 grams of protein, 0 grams of sugar and 4 grams of net carbs. They come in nostalgic flavors like fruity cocoa frosted. You know what we're talking about here. Oh, the loops, man, I love them. So good. The Magic Spoon loops. Yeah. Magic Spoon's high protein treats are crispy, crunchy, airy, and an easy way to get 12 grams of protein on the go. They come in mouthwatering flavors like marshmallow chocolate, peanut butter and dark chocolate. And they're both great on the go. Pre post workout midnight snack. Whenever you're wanting something delicious, Magic Spoon has you covered. Get $5 off your next order at magic spoon.com smalltownmurder or look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magicspoon.com smalltownmurder for $5 off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Annie's like kind of known around the area. Like Here is a 1972 newspaper article from basically the society page, you could say, type of thing. And it says Dr. K. Mortensen of BYU and two students that's their name is unimportant. Are presently in Detroit, Michigan attending a national competition of clean air vehicles.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

The purpose of the competition is to encourage the invention and development of non polluting transport vehicles. Before that was controversial or like political at all. It was just like, hey, that sounds like a good idea, Roger.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Far as anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was just divisive line.

[James Petregallo]

It was just new science. Yeah, it was just let's look at for new science shit. Roger Billings invented. That's one of the students and designed the hydrogen engine which they will enter in the competition. The engine was adapted to two automobiles, a Volkswagen and a Mazda, which were donated by auto dealerships. Gasoline was also donated for the competition. Let's see. The engine developed by Mr. Billings actually cleans the air rather than polluting, like takes in air and then puts it out better as part of the intake.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cleans the air and filters it.

[James Petregallo]

Weird. Yeah, really. I mean sounds like a good idea, but I don't know. So they also say in this article, Mrs. K. Mortensen, his wife Harmona there and three children are. And her sister are in Spanish Fork, spending a few days at the home of Kay's parents. So There we go. 1984, he's doing more smart but boring shit. Listen to this. Okay? December 13, 1984. The Herald newspaper, Provo, Utah. The headline is, all consumers would suffer if Geneva Steel Fails. Okay, I'm just gonna read you the first paragraph. Cause it's boring. It isn't just Utah county steelworkers who will suffer if US Steel's Orem Geneva work shuts down. It's the consumer on all levels. That's the opinion of Dr. Kay Mortensen, a Brigham Young University professor of technology who participated in a panel discussion of problems in the steel industry at BYU Tuesday. He said, this is a very complex issue. He said Geneva employees have the highest level of education of any steelworker in the nation. The innovative ability of Geneva employees may be its major asset. So this is. This is the kind of boring shit he's doing. Like he's being sat down on a panel to discuss how the ramifications of a steel plant closing. And like, very interesting. But he's just to show you. I just was showing you that. To tell you kind of how respected he is, you know, among his peers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah. Scientific community.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, my philosophy is that American industry is in the business to make a dollar. It doesn't bother me if US Steel decides to optimize its plants. It does bother me if we use the capac to produce steel in this country. Okay. Now, his kids here. As time goes on, he and Hermona are gonna end up getting divorced at some point. They're gonna split up and he'll find a new wife later. But let's kinda catch up on what their kids are up to over the years here. Janet, the second child, died in a car accident in Salt Lake City in 1988.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not up to much at all.

[James Petregallo]

No. I found her obituary and she apparently got in a very bad car accident and was killed pretty hard. 88 in. 88? Yeah. So who knows? It could have been one of those little CR. Those little Honda hatchbacks, those little fucking Civics. Little CRXs. Yeah, I rolled over in one of those. It was tough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You rolled in a crx?

[James Petregallo]

Fuck yeah. When I was eight.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

Me and my mom rolled over.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That was the car she was driving?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. We rolled like five times and landed on the roof. And you had to pull her out with all the glass. It was bad. I was like, Eight years old, I think. It's like there was. I remember all my teachers talking about it and like, they brought me in front of the class to like, be like, he's a hero. And I was like, what? I don't even know what was going on. It was really weird, dude. It was strange. Real weird shit. So anyway, he dies, she dies. In 1988, the two youngest kids move away and kind of. They're just gone. Doing their own thing with their own families.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

And then there's Roger. Roger's the oldest. Roger has some issues. Oh, yeah. Number one, in 1994, before this, he was in the Navy. So he was fine in the Navy. Had some success. He worked for the state of Utah for a while after the Navy at a state job. And then in 1994, everything changed. He was in an ATV accident and had a brain injury.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

In an ATV accident. Messed his brain up. And after that, he was a different guy. Couldn't hold a job down. Yeah, not the same personality. Unreliable. He started doing drugs out of nowhere. Never his whole life he was doing. I don't know where he's doing drugs and stuff like that. And just basically would be combative with people for no reason. A brain injury was kind of messed up. And after that, all of a sudden, now criminal things follow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He was in his 30s and never had a problem. And then that just snapped everything into place for him. Here he does. In 1996, he was driving in American Fork Canyon on a four wheeler. You think he would have maybe stopped doing that. But he was passed or he passed a car full of boy Scouts. Okay. Now, car full of boy Scouts on the way to a trip thing that they were doing. He passed them. No one knows why. We don't know if one of the kids, you know, kids, when they're in the car together, they make a face. Out the window. They make a face. One of the kids moons or you know, does something stupid. They give him the finger, stick their tongue out, whatever it is. Something pissed him off bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What'd he do?

[James Petregallo]

Real bad. He became, quote, very upset. Stopped in front of them so they couldn't go any further. And pulled out. No, like a station wagon, I think. And pulled out a handgun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Atta boy.

[James Petregallo]

At a car full of boy Scouts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I'm gonna give. I'm gonna give you your bleeding to death badge right now. How's that? This is. Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One of you is gonna get a triage badge.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you have to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You have to.

[James Petregallo]

You have to think about what's going on. Like, you almost wish you could pause time for someone and go, step back for a second. You're holding a gun on a fucking car full of Boy Scouts. What the hell is wrong with you, dude? Like, chill out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he needs Eminem and Dre to talk him through.

[James Petregallo]

Need somebody to talk him through it. Absolutely. So he's doing that, holding the gun on. He began yelling and pointing the gun at the driver's head at that point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so then he ended up, you know, getting back in his. On his ATV and driving away. But the driver reported that to the cops because that's crazy. And he's a lunatic illegal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They tracked him down and found him with the gun, just as described by the driver. And he had a weed pipe, too. He had his bowl on him. Okay, okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So in Utah, that's bad.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Yeah, in Utah, especially, you know, in 1990. Whatever the hell. 96. So he then pleaded. Roger, pleads no contest to reduce charges of theft and exhibiting a dangerous weapon, and was given probation. The theft was from another thing that he had pending. So they dropped the weed pipe and all that. Then next year, 1997. Fuck, man. He is charged with theft for helping his roommate steal a bunch of tools from a hardware store in Orem, which I don't understand. This is where Mortensen worked as a cashier.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Smart.

[James Petregallo]

So he had his friend help rob him, which. We've all heard of that before. I have a story to tell on that, but I'm not sure about the statute of limitations on it. So I'm not gonna tell it. I'm not gonna tell it. I think it might be up. But still, it was, like, a serious crime that these people committed that I knew about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Products or money.

[James Petregallo]

Money. Yeah, money. Like a staged. A staged robbery thing. Yeah, I'm not going to talk about that. But it was. I didn't do it. Don't get me wrong. It was just my new.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And it depends on the state, too, because in Arizona. I know a friend of mine recently told me that they know who robbed the Peter Piper pizza. And I was like, well, fucking tell me. And he's like, I can't. Because, I don't know, he may have been looking for attention. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

I can't do that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a. That's a. I don't want to be part of. Dude, the statue of limitations is up. Fucking 10 years ago, you should have.

[James Petregallo]

Put one of your guns on him and went, this is what it felt like. You're going to tell me now, motherfucker. I'm going to tie you up and put you around a bunch of dough, you fucking idiot. This is how I felt while it was happening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now you're going to talk bladder feel a little weak.

[James Petregallo]

I'm telling you man, scary isn't is right? Now you're going to tell me. Well, I guess you're not going to tell anyone about this then since you're so fucking tight lipped. So not real worried about it, huh?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Feel that adrenaline. That's what I'm taking to shake.

[James Petregallo]

That's how it works, huh? So now a jury found him in the hardware robbery? No, the jury found him guilty but mentally ill. Oh yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, because he has that brain injury.

[James Petregallo]

He has a brain injury and he's just not right. They looked at his history where he had nothing wrong up until 1994, then brain injury, then a bunch of crazy shit and they went, okay, we think that's the reason why then in 1999 he was in jail for some reason and received a pretty good beating in the jail. We don't know if it's from staff or inmates, but I mean, yeah, he got a pretty good beat. So he was beaten pretty badly in jail in 1999, which like we said, his brain injury, I don't think that's the best thing for it. Probably to get jostled around a little bit more. In 2000 he is again arrested for violating a protective order by making harassing or allegedly making harassing phone calls to his ex wife in which he threatened to kill his stepson. Oh boy, I will kill your child. Yeah, a judge ordered him to take an anger management class.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

I think his brain is fucked up. I don't think it's a matter of knowledge. I think it's a matter of lack of self control, impulse control.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't think any courses are going to.

[James Petregallo]

No, they're not going to stop this. Yeah, they're not going to fix frontal lobe damage. I don't think that's not going to happen. In 2002 his stepson that he was threatened to kill the year before assaulted him with a baseball bat. Oh, beat him in the head with a baseball bat. Roger so badly that Roger had to have metal plates put in his head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

His brain has been through it, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No lighting.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, that is scary. I mean think about it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A thick candy shell.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's good for it. Probably now it's a big peanut M and M. But that is like, man, that's a lot, dude.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's too much. It's a lot of brain injuries then. Okay. In 2003, same stepson, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. He is charged with assault. Roger is in Spanish Fork after police say that he and his stepson split a bottle of tequila, which is a bad start already, and you know where this is going. And then he attacked his stepson after half a bottle of tequila. Yeah. Charge was dismissed because he entered a plea in abeyance for providing alcohol to a minor instead. This was a child, by the way. A minor who beat his brains in with a baseball bat and who he splits bottles of tequila with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Roger's decision making is questionable at best. At best questionable. It's scattered is more like it. And dangerous is also inconsistent, precarious, lots of things like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not good.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not good. So he ends up getting remarried because that obviously that relationship isn't going to work out. That'll sour protection orders and baseball bat beatings. And that's basically like being in a relationship with the Gambino family. That whole thing. It's crazy. So he gets a new wife named Pamela Ann. She goes by pam. She's about 13 years younger than him, by the way, than Roger. Now, she is known for her cooking. Pam's a hell of a cook, especially her pecan pies.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Those are, I guess, K. Dad, that's his favorite dessert is Pam's pecan pie. Triple P, baby. She should start a stand. So Pam's pecan pie stand. Now. K. Back to his career a little bit here. University spokesman said he worked at the school from 1968 to 2005. And when he left BYU, he was a member of the mechanical engineering department at that time where he'd been teaching. And he's amassed, apparently. K. In addition to his abilities and mechanical things and that sort of thing. He's really, really smart with money. Oh, he's a really good investor and has invested money extremely well over the years. I don't know if he inherited anything from his parents to Kickstarter, because I know they had a farm and all that, but whatever it is, he's worth millions. Really? By the early 2000s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good for him.

[James Petregallo]

He's worth millions. And it's all just his. He's really methodical about the way he invests. He, like, tracks and makes charts. He's a math guy. I mean, that's what he does. And he finds a new wife as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

One with a name that's a little better than Hermona. K I'm sorry. K, that's his wife's name. They're both K. He married Darla is her name. Darla Pectol. P E C T O L Pectel. Darla Pectel Jones. Okay, so Darla is a little younger than him and a lot different than him. She's like bright and cheery. And he's not. He's got some interesting. He's got some interesting things that he does that we'll get into here. So Darla, this is a neighbor, described them as quote, unquote. Boy, he sure seemed like a nice fellow when he's around here. Because they lived behind them in another home they owned in Washington City. They owned another home. And he says he was a part timer for now. I guess he was going to retire here eventually to Washington City. K is also. And this is where his idiosyncrasies come into play. He's a big time. I guess you could call him a prepper, a doomsday guy. Yeah, big time. We're talking, uh. Oh, yeah. Real, real strange. He's got. He's a total survivalist. Overwhelming distrust of society, really. Societal collapse is imminent and nuclear war is even more imminent. And we got a fucking. We gotta. Yeah, we gotta gird our loins here. Yeah, he's one of these guys, big time. He was convinced that there was many catastrophic events coming. Nuclear war, which will lead to a civil war, which will lead to pandemics and economic collapse and all of that. So he didn't want to be involved in any of that. So basically he decides to make himself a fortress in Payson. And that's what he does. Okay. He has fuckloads of guns, first of all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Like a hundred of them. Really conservatively. Yeah, like a hundred guns. He keeps them not in one place, not as a collection, not in safes all over the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He knows where all those are in.

[James Petregallo]

We're talking in strategic locations all over that. If I'm on the couch and I'm reaching for my drink, I can pull a gun out of the coffee table. And if I'm going over here, let's say I'm in the kitchen getting some eggs out of the egg holder here. Okay. Well, somebody comes up, boom. Pull a gun out of the butter department there you pang right here in the mayonnaise jar. That's it. Pull it right out of a pickle can. That's no problem. Pickle can. I don't think pickles come in cans, do they? Jar is what I'm going For there. Pickle can. I just said, yeah, that's how you eat pickles. Canned pickles. You'd think there would be canned pickles, but they're not. You want to see them in there? I think is why. So that's what he's got going on. They're everywhere. And he's got his, what he calls his everyday weapons.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, what are those?

[James Petregallo]

The ones he wants to shoot, actually. If someone comes in, he'll 9 millimeter here or something there. Then he has his valuable collector pieces that are expensive collector guns that are, you know, more for to look at than to fuck with kind of a thing. And a lot of them are, you know, worth thousands of dollars. As you know, guns can be very expensive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, man.

[James Petregallo]

Extremely. Now the valuable guns, the collector's pieces are kept separately from the rest of the guns. Then there's a lot of rare ones and things like that. He knows everything about guns too. He's a guy that if he's interested in something, he'll find out everything there is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All of it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, learn it all. So he had his own underground bunker? Yeah, he had a bunker, man. He made a bunker. Nice to live in or to whatever. Like a blast from the past bunker. No, he made a bunker separately of the basement.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dug a hole.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, a big one too. An underground bunker. Stocked. And it's stocked not only with weapons and ammo, but canned goods and water supplies. And it's prepper shit. I mean, he's ready to go. It was accessible through the house and contained what he considered his everyday firearms. That's where he put those because, you know, to fend off the boards that'll be coming to his bunker. In addition to that, he's a black belt in karate as well. He's so. That's so paranoid. I will beat you and kick you and if that doesn't work, then I can shoot you. Is a lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just don't know how much, how he has so much time.

[James Petregallo]

Just pick one. Pick a defense mechanism. Either you're going to kick somebody or shoot them, but not both. Bruce Lee never pulled out a gun and shot somebody. It was. You know what I mean? Chuck Norris was a. He'd kick you, he'd shoot you too. But Bruce did later on, catch one. He shot. Yeah, he shot. Yeah. No, no, I'm talking. He never shot others.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[James Petregallo]

I know how Bruce Lee died. How would karate have kept him out of that one?

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, no, maybe he should have had a gun, is my point.

[James Petregallo]

Bruce Lee.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think he needed it. He was good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He got shot, didn't he?

[James Petregallo]

Brandon Lee got shot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think they both did.

[James Petregallo]

But it was an accident. It wasn't. Yeah, he couldn't have defended himself against an accident. That's my point. He wasn't like robbed. Robbed at a 711 or something. That would have been one thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But was that a movie set? I think it was.

[James Petregallo]

I think his son died the same way as him. I'm pretty sure. Wasn't it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It'd be sad if just Bruce Lee just had cancer. We messed it all up. So anyway, that's how, that's how this is going. He's a black belt and karate and a firearms guy. And guns in all the rooms in the house. Even his cars are full of guns. Everything. Fully stocked, bunker, you name it. Even, like magazines, books, things like that. Just like it was stocked down there. This is where we're going to live. And yeah, Darla, he'd tell Darla, this is where you and I are going to end up because there's going to be a nuclear war. And, you know, I'd say I don't want to live if everybody else is dying. But, you know, he was, he did want to live here. And he also, she also said he was a true patriot and he worried about things and he wanted to be prepared for the civil war that was going to erupt. So, yeah, nuclear war followed by civil war was his plan of how the whole thing was going to happen here. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you the best place to get wines. Naked wines.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nakedwines.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So this guy, between the karate and the guns, he and the prepping, he's ready to kill you to defend his water supply? Essentially.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they and Fern, his sister, once asked him what would happen if, you know, I'm not prepared and I'm hungry or my kids are hungry, can we come to the house? And he said, no, I'll probably just shoot. You don't have enough for everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get out of here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. No good. So how does Darla feel about this, his new wife? She cool with all this? Yeah, well, I mean, everybody said that she kind of softened him up a little bit because she's not like this at all. So not as far as the prepping and all that shit goes. But in terms of his harder edges, she kind of smoothed him a drop here. Not so much. Not so terrified of the world she is. She accepted it because she said, well, that's him, whatever, but it doesn't affect me that much. So she said, I think we both felt like we were back being teenagers again because we both hadn't really had love for quite a few years. And she had kids of her own as well. Kay has adult children. She's got adult children. There's, you know, all sorts of. They both have had lives before this and now they're gonna come in and, you know, live their golden years together essentially here. And she was into her own shit, too. She was into, like, you know, like normal shit people do when they go. When they retire, they golf and things like that. She liked vintage cars, which is cool. I'd much rather have a bunch of vintage cars than a basement in a bunker and a fucking. Yes, much more fun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sell the guns, buy a car.

[James Petregallo]

Kill me in my 68 Camaro or whatever, that's fine. Just annihilate me in a nuclear fashion while I'm driving my 71 Cooter or whatever the fuck. You know what I mean? Like, I don't care. It's better. So they were happy. But he'd say, you know, we're good. Let's just be happy. He told Darla that. What else do we need to do? We're retired. We have plenty of money. Let's just have fun. Which sounds great. Sheikh Darla also said that he made most of his money buying gold at $250 an ounce, which apparently it went up significantly after that. And she said he just had the foresight. He's always said, the dollar's bill isn't going to be worth anything, so you need it to grow. He put his money into a trust so that Roger and his other children would inherit everything when he was gone as well. Everybody said he wasn't spending it. He's very frugal. Worth millions. Extremely frugal, except when it comes to, you know, guns and cans of doomsday preparations. That sky's the limit. But everything else, very frugal. Darla said, very frugal. And I just. I used to say to him, I said, when is it you're going to spend your money? You know, what are you waiting for? What are you doing here? So that prompted him to finally promise Darla that, fine, I'm going to travel with you and we'll see the world. Let's do that. I'll get out of my bunker. But, you know, he's still in the bunker for now. And like I said, Darla has her own grandchildren and children. Everybody kind of blends together pretty seamlessly, though, because, I mean, they're all adults. You meet them at Thanksgiving. Hey, how you doing? You know, it's not like you have to live with these people, so who gives a shit?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, very little effort.

[James Petregallo]

She's a lot more social than Kay is. She's the one who, like, maintains kind of the family connections and she talks to the kids, his kids, more than he does. And that sort of thing, too. Now K becomes more isolated. He's involved with the LDS Church as well. People said he's dedicated, eccentric, and that he took his religious obligations very seriously. Now really, really does that. Neighbors knew that he was well prepared. And some said if the apocalypse came, Kay's house would be the safest place to be. So all of his neighbors kind of know him as a pious guy who's very focused, and that's his thing. And everybody knows about him. Which I think if you're prepping, the fact that everyone knows what you have defeats the purpose of doing it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

If you've prepped and everyone comes to your house because they think you're prepared, you're no longer prepared anymore. So it's pointless.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now you're overwhelmed.

[James Petregallo]

Now you're overwhelmed. Yeah. Now you have to shoot your neighbors, which is. I don't know if that's what you're up for right now. Is that what you're looking for? So K spends a lot of time with Roger. He's kind of the only person he really hangs out with besides Darla. They're very close, best friends. People say they do everything together. They're nothing alike, by the way, but they're. Especially after the brain injury, they're not much alike, but they are always hanging out together. By this point, Roger cannot work. He lives on disability.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

His brain just doesn't connect things very well sometimes. And they lived less than a mile away from each other because they liked spending time together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah. I mean, Roger later said if I ever needed help, he was. He'd be there in a minute to help me. And, you know, he said that wasn't. That was great. You know what I mean? It was. Roger's dad was. Called him. Called him kind of just very strong guy. His way or the highway. So everybody said that Roger learned to shy away from confrontation with his father. He knew better. If his dad was adamant about something, he just. Whoop. He just skirted it, didn't want to deal with it. Roger, he figured that out early. Now Darla will go right at him and say, what are you doing? You know what I mean? She's a different story, and he's okay with it, so whatever. So like I said, these two guys, they spend a lot of time together. They go camping together and play games. Roger would often help Kay with projects around the property. And so they're always together. He knows. Roger knows the home. He knows all about the prepping and the guns and where everything is and all that kind of shit. Roger knew about the bunker. He knows all of this stuff. So by 2009, Kay is a retired professor and a church member and a survivalist with an arsenal at the same time. He's waiting, just literally waiting for society to collapse. Any minute now, like, any fucking minute in early November 2009, he gets out from doing an 18 month missionary stint.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

I just said that. Like jail. He's like, said it like he was released from jail. He and Darla, he just did a. Yeah, he did a couple of fucking little bit here. He was released from serving as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints at the Provo Mission, where he was doing that shit missionary work. So they did 18 months of that. That's early November now, November 16, 2009, Darla was in Salt Lake County. She was with her daughter who was having a baby. Oh, so granddaughter coming now. YK didn't go with for that. Weird. But he stayed home. He's prepping the bunker, you know, things.

[Jimmy Wissman]

To do, step grandfather, I guess, in that situation.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you go with your wife.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know, that's a. Yeah, that's a family event. You make her go by herself. Plus, it's like a drive. Go with her. What are you doing? You're retired.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a ride out. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Who gives a shit? Guys, stop for lunch on the way and have a good time. So she was delayed that day getting back and was coming home later than expected. So she was supposed to be home kind of early evening and now it's, you know, pushing 9 o' clock and she's still not home yet. All right, then at 8:52pm, a 911 call comes in. Oh, okay. This is a 911 call made by Roger. Oh, and Pam is there as well. And they'll pass the phone kind of back and forth to each other as the events progress. Here it's Roger on the line. His voice sounds a little shaky and he's saying, he says that there's these guys in here and they came in and we were tied up. And he's really mumbling and stumbling. So he said there was a guy with a gun and there's guys and they had guns and we were tied up and I don't know what's going on, but not like a real concise A to B linear explanation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Of what's going on. He's stumbling over details. He's having a hard time expressing himself, which also brain injury doesn't help for that either. Yeah. So that's another fucking. Another thing like that. So that's what he's doing now. They said they asked him, quote, the guy that had the gun, what did he look like? Was he a white guy, a black guy? And he, you know, basic details. You've said it's a guy. Let's get a color, then maybe a height, and then, you know, we'll go from there. What was he wearing?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shit like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, I don't know. And they're like, okay, how many were there? How many guys were there? Okay. That's what he says to them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He asked them how many guys there were.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I don't know. How many were there? How many guys were there? That's what he says. Like, is that your question? You're asking me? Like, obviously, that's the question. Yeah. So the dispatcher says, white, black, Hispanic, you know, let's get some more info. He says, three white males came out, two white males. That's his response.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Three white males came out, two white males.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. I don't know what that means. So the. Then they're saying, we think something happened to my dad. Okay. We think there's something wrong with him. We think there's something wrong. We're calling him. He's not answering. Okay. So they say to him, the dispatcher asked Pamela, who now is on the phone, I have help on the way, but I just need some information. Is he dead? The other guy in the house is K. Dead? Pam responds, quote, um, I don't know. And then says, my husband went upstairs, looked around or went to look. I don't know if he is or not. If you're the dispatcher, this is a very frustrating call.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Because you got to get the right people to the scene.

[James Petregallo]

You'd love to get them police and fire and ambulance and all this different shit, but they're not helping with, like, vital information at all here. So then Roger gets on the phone again after he comes down, and they said, you. You sure your dad's. Your dad's cold to the touch. Yeah, that's an easier way than saying dead. If you say dead, then they might fall apart. And then you got somebody on the phone. So then Roger says he's leaned over face forward in the bathtub with his throat sliced all the way up. Okay. So the dispatcher says, they sliced his throat. And he said, sliced his throat. Yeah. So that's what's going on here. That's the scene that we're arriving to. These two Just saying we don't know who, how many, what they are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's a lot of people. There's a throat slit. There's a lot happening.

[James Petregallo]

Somewhere between two and three people, maybe white, we're not sure, who knows, because then he'll say they're black. So we have no idea what's going on here. So the police arrived, and the house shows some signs of disturbance here. There's furniture moved. There's items scattered everywhere. Shit, looks like there's been scattered. And struggles and whatever the hell.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's been a scene.

[James Petregallo]

There's certainly been a scene. They go upstairs to find that Kay's body is indeed in the bathroom, hanging over the edge of the tub with his throat slashed. Okay. Now he's also stabbed multiple times in the back of the neck as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

In the back of the neck? Yeah, like they had him over the side. I don't know if they're trying to loosen. Maybe he was tightening up so he couldn't get at his throat. So they were stabbing him. So I don't understand what that was. But according to later on medical examiner findings, he suffered at least five slashing wounds to his neck and a single stab wound to the back of the neck. The positioning, forcing him to kneel over the bathtub basically said that this was a. Like you would kill an animal and collect its blood in a fucking. And it's. It's a slaughter. Yeah, they put him over the tub to slaughter him. So this is horrifying. They say that these injuries, by the way, wouldn't have killed him immediately, and he would have remained conscious and aware for one to five minutes as he bled to death. Horrifying as he watched himself bleed out. Terrifying. I don't even know what to say about. That's horrifying. So the medical examiner. Wow, man. That's crazy. That's what they say. So they look around and they've heard a lot just on the way over here and just from basic neighbors and shit that he has a shitload of guns. And they say that there's guns missing from their usual locations all over the house. Yeah, guns missing all over the fucking house. So one of the first responders, a Lt. Mike Brower of the Sheriff's Department, said that the house was largely undisturbed. There were areas of shit scattered, but not the whole house. He said there were drawers and gun lockers left untouched. None of the doors showed anything to suggest a forced entry. And thing that was most interesting, they found there was meat on the countertop. On a countertop grill in the kitchen. Not cooking uncooked. But seasoned. Yeah, but seasoned. So this was. He was in the process of cooking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

For sure. So he was in the middle of preparing dinner. The. The guy. The lieutenant said the home did not appear to have been ransacked. So that's a little bit odd. But there's a lot of blood. And they're saying that in a home invasion. What's being claimed here? That there's usually more shit disturbed because someone bum rushes into the house and does stuff. They're going to tear the house apart looking for shit. That's why they're in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. You don't usually just. Unless you're interrupted. But you don't usually just stop. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they're like that. The fact that it doesn't seem to have been ransacked seems like more of like a calculated direct thievery of where to steal things.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're looking for something specific.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That doesn't strike people as just a straight up home invasion type of deal. So it's very interesting. They said also the home is super secure. This is not. He doesn't just have like a screen door open for anybody to come in and out of. Multiple locks. Security measures. Weapons placed strategically everywhere. They said that it's almost impossible to imagine people being able to break into the house and then bum rush him before he can get to a gun. It's just not a thing that is possible. Probably. So they're like. That seems completely unlikely. They would have had to have broken. Snuck up on him or something. But there's no forced entry anywhere. So how's that work? That's the problem. Now many of the guns are missing. Specific. Some of the specific firearms are interesting here. The thieves had somehow known to go directly to the underground bunker that. Yeah. Where he kept his everyday weapons. They hadn't touched some of his more valuable collector pieces though. So they're wondering if that was because they were interrupted or they just weren't. Professional thieves that didn't know the value of shit. Basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sometimes that collector gun is ugly as fuck. Doesn't look menacing. It's just old and stupid.

[James Petregallo]

They might think it's nothing. Exactly. Whereas that. That's the gun that's worth three grand. And you know so. Or more. Yeah. Who knows?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's Aaron Burr's gun.

[James Petregallo]

It's better than fucking having the other gun that didn't work apparently. So he said that the. You know, they seem to have. They seem to have had some specific knowledge about his collection and some weapons seem to be deliberately chosen while some are overlooked. So it's very interesting. So the people they really want to talk to are Roger and Pam because they made the 911 call. So they might be able to put together some of this mystery and maybe have a little more of their shit together off of 911 because they weren't good. So they said that the couple appeared really composed for people who had just survived. What they're going to describe that they. That they describe here? Okay. They said that they expected to see more obvious signs of trauma, but they seem calm as they recounted the story. At one point, Roger said, I came back downstairs and my wife was talking at the time to 911 dispatch. And I said, he's dead calm as can be. So here's their story. Okay. They showed up with a pecan pie for Kay because it's his favorite, remember?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they. They showed up just neighborly pie. Delivery time. Okay. They said they knocked on the door, Roger and Pam. When they did, they saw there was an unfamiliar car in the driveway.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But they said, you know, who the hell knows what Dad's doing? They said, Kay, he had visitors occasionally, and he also knew that he and Darla were planning to leave town the next day. So he said, I don't know if. That maybe he rented a car to go out of town. I have no idea what he's fucking doing doing. Or maybe he's got a friend over, I don't know. So then they said that a person they didn't recognize opened the door when they knocked, not Kay. Pam said that she assumed that these people were contractors and maybe working on the Internet or looking at some new carpet because Kay and Darla had discussed some home improvement projects recently. So she thought maybe they're just like contractors who are over at, you know, 8:45 at night or whatever, which is normal. Too super normal for people to be giving you a carpet fucking estimate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Carpet swatches at 9pm yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So it's real weird. So Pam said that, you know, she just thought nothing of it. She said they did not have ski masks on. They did not look like anybody scary. They looked like regular people. I was not scared, nor did I think anything of it. So she said that a man opened the door and told them that Kay was upstairs and said, you know, come on in. Basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Pam then started toward the stairs. And that's when one of the. She said there was two men. And one of them told her, come back or she's at this point, they're saying three men. So they're saying one of the men told her come back, and that's when she noticed he was holding a gun. Oh, that's her story. So she said once inside, that's when they showed their weapons and they bound Roger and Pam with zip ties, just like they'd done to Kay because Kay was bound with zip ties as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So now they're part of this whole thing. They're getting robbed, too.

[James Petregallo]

There's a. They're involved in this, too. So they said they were zip tied at the wrists and ankles, just completely helpless sitting here. They said they thought they were about to die. And so at that point, because they figured they were getting shot, that Rogers said he began to pray. He said that Rogers told the police that he started praying out loud, preparing to die, but instead of the burglars or killers or home invaders telling him to shut the fuck up, they instead stopped what they were doing and bowed their heads respectfully and waited for Roger to finish his prayer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, so they were going to participate and be in the prayer as well.

[James Petregallo]

They're going to be in the circle. Yeah, they want to be a part of it. So they said that when Roger told the cops that when he concluded his prayer, the killers opened their eyes and looked up and announced that they changed their minds. This prayer, what a powerful prayer, just put a whole new sense into them, what's right and what's wrong. And yeah, they said, you know what? We were going to kill you, obviously, but we're not going to kill you now. We're going to let you live, but under one condition.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Caveat. All right?

[James Petregallo]

So, I mean, at that point, I think any condition is fine. You're like, great, take. Unzip it. Let's go. I don't care. Whatever. Sure, I'll suck it. Let's go. So they said, here's the catch. I want you to tell a very specific story to the police.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And this is the story they tell at first, and then they. They go back and change it to this story. Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They said that you were to report that three men broke into the house. Not two men, and all three were black. Now. Now they're black.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's what you have to say? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. We want you to say three black guys broke in here instead of two white guys. That's what's going on here. So they said, and this is what Pam said later. Quote, before the men left, she said they told her and her husband to tell police that three black men had been inside the home. They said that her husband's identification and their addresses. They took his id. They took Roger's ID and did. Like Jimmy Conway and Goodfellas. You may know who we are, but we know who you are. Shit. With the truck driver.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said. So they took the ID and said, I see your address and read it off and said, I'll come to your home and kill you if you say anything to the cops other than what we're telling you to say.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they took his driver's license, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

By the way, his breakfast will never taste better.

[James Petregallo]

Never. So Pam said, we were told that we were doing this, that they were doing this for their families, that they were desperate for money. They weren't greedy. They were just really desperate people. And their families were hurting and they needed the money. So then Roger and Pam said they managed to free themselves from the zip ties somehow, which. Go ahead and try that, people. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Only way.

[James Petregallo]

You need a good luck getting yourself out of zip ties. Yeah. Enjoy. I mean, that's. That's a tough one. And they said they immediately went up upstairs to check on K. And that's when they found the body and the throat slashed and blood everywhere. And they called 91 1. And then the cops are all here, and they're like. And now. Now we're talking to you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So now when they do this initial interview, though, they say three black guys broke in the house and tell the rest of the story. They stopped. They let us pray. They did all that. But then later on they go, okay, it's really two white guys. But they told us to say three black guys. So we said three black guys.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which is very confusing and maybe the worst story. Maybe the worst story of, like, we didn't do it that I've ever heard in my life, possibly. So you were tied up with zip ties that you miraculously extricated yourself from, which are impossible to get out of. But you did it. You figured it out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're unbelievable. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You were gonna be murdered. Just about to be murdered. But on the burge.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They decided to do a prayer with you. And then they had a change of heart after brutally slashing this old man to death upstairs. Now it's a change of heart. And then they told you, look, we'll let you live if you just tell the right story. Like, this does not sound believable.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a very powerful prayer, James.

[James Petregallo]

It's so powerful. So the investigation, the law enforcement is not releasing a whole lot to the Public just a few details. And they are saying that they are searching for two men and a blue hatchback vehicle. That's all they'll say. Now a neighbor at the time here, this is Kent Carroll, a longtime neighbor here says that the Mortensens family was planning to gather at the house the next day to play board games that included Roger and Pam, who were. Or that night. I'm sorry, who. They said they were tied up. This neighbor says, I really think they're lucky to be alive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I do too.

[James Petregallo]

Oh man. Super lucky. That prayer saved him. So the neighbor said he was late getting home with his wife from a doctor's appointment in Pleasant Grove. Or he believes he would have been at the scene during the home invasion because he was gonna come over for game night. That's why they were there with a pie. He said it was common for him to take care of the Mortensen property when they were out of town. And he thought they were gonna be out of town. Cause they were gonna drive. So he would drive his four wheeler over and look for suspicious shit. He said, it's probably a good thing I wasn't home. Had we not stopped at the store, I might have come home and actually seen the guys coming out of the driveway. So he said that when he tried to drive up the canyon, he found the roads blocked by sheriff's deputies. So he called Darla, who was at the time getting off the freeway at Payson to see if she knew what was happening. And she said, I had no idea. There's sheriff's blocking the road and I don't know what's happening. So she met this neighbor at the police command post in a church and said. Said that he, you know, he said he left before the officers had told everybody what happened. The neighbor said he described Kay as a survivalist type person who had a bunker and all that kind of shit. So everybody knew about it. And he also said, I suspect that maybe he let his guard down thinking that people he knew were coming over because he was expecting people. He was expecting Roger and Pam and he was expecting the kids and the wife and everybody. So he said he probably just thought somebody he knew was at the door. And he said, if that happened, I suspect he was facing a gun and they got the drop on him. The drop on him in this duel. Knowing K, he was a fairly cautious guy. So what does the Internet have to say about this? The next.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tell me all of it.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, here is November 19, 2009, 108pm so it was like the day after it's released to the public or the day of quote. Is this the same case Sherman Mortensen that shot his neighbor's dog down in front of them? What happened to that case? Shooting in city limits. Animal cruelty. Okay, now next person says something's rotten in Denmark or Payson. This incident reeks of plotting. Was this break in revenge? Was this break in revenge? Someone out there know about this and isn't telling. Contact the police right away. Then another comment. A bad guy for shooting the neighbor's dog after repeatedly informing him of numerous negative issues. You kill a bad dog, you don't paint the property owner as bad for protecting himself and family and property. I'll take a fine anytime rather than teeth marks. So this guy's defending shooting the neighbor's dog right then. Dr. Mortensen was one of my favorite professors while I was at byu. His depth of knowledge was immense and his real world engineering experience was key to how he taught his courses. What a tragic event. I'm truly heartbroken. Then, okay, this neighbor is supposed to be a good friend. But for some reason he can't seem to keep his mouth shut, which may hinder the case. There's a reason the police are not releasing information. He should be respectful of that and keep quiet until they release the info. I'm sure Mr. Mortensen's family are not real thrilled with his running his mouth. Okay, then another one. For a man who was cautious like him, he had to have known the perpetrators. No man leaves his guard down in the face of a stranger. Plus he was. He was being constantly watch. I don't know what that means. What a shame when we trust the world and the world just stabs us in the face.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In the face.

[James Petregallo]

In the face. I don't think that's how that goes. But okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Usually. And we will always believe that we live in a safe zone. Okay, so the comments are scattered is what I'm getting at. People, they're mad at him. Some people like him. Like I said, you can't get 96% of people to agree on anything. You can't get 96% of people to agree that a victim butchered in his tub is bad. That we can't even get that to. We can't all agree on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sometimes you call back all the bad deeds in their life and you've justified the Act.

[James Petregallo]

But 96% of us can agree Joseph Smith pulled some shit out of the ground and everything's fine. Like what are we talking about here? Shot and you can Agree on that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Magic underwear. He saved his life.

[James Petregallo]

So Roger's acting real weird too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

During the investigation, he's not real cooperative with the cops at all, which is kind of strange here. There's also inconsistencies in he and Pam's account of what happened. So even during the original 911 call, he contradicted himself about the number of attackers, their descriptions. And as they conducted more detailed interviews then with Roger and Pam, these inconsistencies just piled up and piled up. More and more and more start happening. And in one interview, Pam described the attackers as wearing blue fuzzy gloves that looked like women's winter driving gloves. And in another interview, she described them as purple gloves that weren't fuzzy. Purple eyes donors very different. Now blue and purple to me look the same because I got a very close fucked up thing that, whatever, but I know fuzzy and not fuzzy. I can tell you whether it was that or not. Now, when asked about the possibility of family involvement, Pam's answers were also weird. She just seemed evasive and, well, I don't know. And a lot of Heman and Hahn. Then the investigator just said, is your husband capable of killing somebody? Oh, let's just ask, is Roger capable of this? Pam's response now, I would hope if you asked Sarah that she'd go, fuck, no, probably not. Probably not. She said, quote, I need to get a drink.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Huh?

[James Petregallo]

Pardon?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I got a pee. Anything.

[James Petregallo]

She's wow, I need to get a drink. And then said, I wouldn't hope. I mean, I wouldn't think he is. I wouldn't think he's capable of killing his father. Oh boy, Real weird answer. So I wouldn't think he's capable rather than. No, of course not. Yeah, it was real strange. And Roger's descriptions kept changing. At first he said that Pam and he knocked on the door, or when they got there, Pam knocked on the door. Then later on he said that she rang the doorbell. And then later on he said that she knocked again, but she didn't like, knock, ring the doorbell, then knock. These are three different things that she.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Different first actions.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. So it's real weird. One detective at one point just confronts him and says, this story sounds too rehearsed. Yeah, sounds like something you practice, but you keep mixing up the details. Basically sounds like you practiced it, but you didn't put your brain injury into the equation and all of that. So another thing, they claim to have been bound with zip ties for nearly an hour now. To get out of zip ties, imagine you'd be all scraped and cut and ripping the skin off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that'll fuck your arms up.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's so. But they said they showed no physical signs of restraints. No marks on their wrists or ankles, no chafing or bruising that would be expected from struggling against plastic restraints for your life. For Christ's sake. Not just a little bit struggling to flee yourself so that right away looks terrible. Inconsistent stories, zip ties. Now they dig into Roger and Pam's background a little bit and discover that they are in a shitload of debt.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Debt. So much debt.

[James Petregallo]

Shitloads. They have unpaid bills. Financial pressures. They're looking at losing their house. They have credit card bills coming out of their ass. So much debt and so much financial hardship. So they said that they had a lot of unpaid bills when searched by the police here. And you know, Kay is worth millions and they are in line to inherit a third of it, so.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

That'll get you out of debt. And one investigator said, you're in debt. Your father has millions, and suddenly he's dead and you're the one that found him. How does that look?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

How does that look to you? He said, that's wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Come on. He said that to Roger. How's that look to you? Yeah. And Roger said, quote, I get a big share of my dad's millions, too. I know we're in a lot of debt, but I personally would not have killed my father for his money. Wouldn't have killed him for his money. Maybe another reason. But not for that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not for his money.

[James Petregallo]

I personally would not have killed my father for his money. Like, I mean, other people. To each his own is what I'm getting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Somebody else might. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not me, though. I'm not the guy. Then they start looking into the family dynamics and scrutinizing them, and they learned there'd been some tension between Darla and Roger and Pam in the past few months. Darla later also mentioned to the police a falling out that occurred, but didn't really have much details. There's just a general falling out amongst the four of them here. Now Roger's best friend defends him. He has known Roger for six years, and he doesn't want to be identified publicly, which is always very reliable information. He says that Roger's someone who's extremely cautious about the people he associates with. He said even if he meets someone that he doesn't know, that looks like a shady character or something like that, he just won't even deal with them. Just judging books by their covers, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, that's his, that's his forte. That's not real.

[James Petregallo]

It's not really a compliment.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So far he's been real good at it, batting a thousand. He just says, you're a scumbag. I see it.

[James Petregallo]

I see it in you. And I'm not going to deal with you. No, I don't give chances based on the content of your character. Get the hell out of here. I don't like the look of you. So the neighbor said, he's like, you know, I don't need that in my life. And that's exactly how he is. You know, if he can't tell right away off the bat that you're a good person, then he doesn't want nothing to do with you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

They also, he mentions that quote, roger Mortensen suffered brain injuries in an off roading accident and has no short term memory. He says that that might prevent him from accurately remembering what the suspects look like that evening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Pam's brain is fine though. And they were right next to what about her? So what are we talking about? He also said about Roger, he's a stand up guy. I mean, he's in the five or six years I've known him, he's been more of a dad to me than my own dad has been in the 26 years that I've been alive. He's over 20 years older than this guy, so he'll be more of a father figure. He said Roger Mortensen sustained brain injuries in the off roading accident and he has no short term memory. So I mean, you got to keep looking at that. November 25, 2009, a $25,000 reward is offered by the family.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Here, I believe, yes. Mortensen's family offers this reward for anything leading to the arrest and conviction. They said, we plead with anyone with information to come forward. They said they've been interviewing a lot of people in this case and the reward is going to make more tips come in and they'll be interviewing more people. But they said, we're willing to sift through all those concerns to hopefully get some decent information out of somebody. And that's what you do when you put up a Reward. You're saying 99 out of 100 of the next calls are gonna be bullshit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bullshit. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just trash that have nothing to do with anything. January 25, 2010. So almost. That's more than two months have gone by.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Been a while. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The police publicly name Roger and Pam as persons of interest in the case. Publicly they're described by investigators as uncooperative. They said, we have two persons of interest in the that were identified. We've tried to work through attorneys to have them come in and give us more information about what's been obtained in the investigation. And that has not been done. So they obtained a lot more evidence. And then they were going to them go, we'd like to talk to you again. And they're saying, we're done talking to you. Roger and Pam, that's not great. That does not look good here. Obviously, they said in early March, then the police released a list of firearm stolen from Kay and it results in many leads, but nothing that leads to anything. They say a lot of tips have come in related to the stolen firearms. We've followed through with those leads and made several arrests. But the weapons do not come back to the Mortensen murder. They've gotten a bunch of other stolen guns off the streets, but not the ones they're looking for. So they said that it's dragging on because they need to have a case solid before they make an arrest here. They said the case is still very active and will continue to do so until we resolve it. We're confident in the information we have now. Pam and Roger have an attorney. Oh, and he said, my clients were not involved in this murder. They are happy to help the police with the investigation, but detectives have only shown interest in talking to them if they're willing to confess to the crime. It's inappropriate to say they're not willing to cooperate, but in this case, cooperating means coming in and talking to them and they won't do that anymore. So it's kind of hard to say they are cooperating too. So that can go either way. Now, there is no DNA evidence, fingerprints or any of that on the murder weapon because they find a knife eventually, but they. There's nothing to help them with it at all. So no witnesses, obviously, other than these two. So what do you do? So the missing guns, they say that they're basically. They're not looking for. For the guns specifically, but any calls that come in about stolen guns, they're. They're checking, but they're not. Yeah, they're not on the hunt for guns. They said that, you know, they were. Whatever. They said that one guy from the US Marshals said that two weeks ago a marshall's vehicle was broken into and two guns were stolen. The task force was actively looking for those guns. In the process of doing that, we really pushed our informants and as a result, we came up with over 40 guns, nice. About half of those were from a burglary in Idaho, while the rest were taken from people pulled over. Mostly felons who had guns, but nothing connected to Kay Mortensen at all. So they're like, shit. That's what they. They really thought they could do that. So. But they couldn't. So anyway, the police are focused on Roger and Pam. That is one, two, three, four and five suspects here. Um, tips come in about suspicious vehicles seen in the area, but, you know, it's a bunch of different vehicles and a bunch of different tips and nothing really pans out. Potential witnesses reported seeing unfamiliar cars or strangers, but they said that they're, you know, the cops kind of just dismissed them and didn't really, didn't really look into it very much. Um, it's because they think they got it. Now they get Roger and Pam to agree to take polygraphs. Okay, let's get the whole thing over with. And they tell him, you pass these, we'll leave you alone, basically. And they both failed the polygraph. Not good. Not good. Not good at all. So, yeah, during one session here, they go back to Pam about the glove thing and all that kind of shit. Finally, during one of these investig. One of these interrogations, Pam mentioned they were talking about the gloves. They're talking about all that. And one of the cops just said, you know what? Quite frankly, I think the story's a bunch of crap. I think the story's a bunch of crap that you and Roger have come up with. It sounds too rehearsed. You're messing up the details. Basically, you tried and you fucked it up. So just give it up now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tell us the truth.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, tell us the goddamn truth. This went on for hours and hours, but she never would confess. So they said. Now Roger and Pam, not only are the police looking for them, but the whole society has ostracized them. Yeah, around there, they're the church everybody. Nobody wants anything to do with them. So their kids are bullied at school. Basically they're reading and classmates are telling the kids, oh, your parents killed their dad and blah, blah, blah, your mom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And dad killed grandpa.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, exactly. Like they're just talking shit to the bullying the kids about what they're seeing in the newspapers and on the Internet and everything. So, yeah, it's really tough. The family gatherings are weird because half the people think Roger and Pam killed Kay and half the people don't. So they argue about it. So it's a mess. It's all gone to shit. July of 2010, rather than just charging him, charging Roger and Pam, they go to a grand jury with it. And the grand jury can issue findings and indictments. They said that the reason they did that. And if you don't know what a grand jury is, if you're not from this country or something like that, a group of people, citizens who review the evidence and determine whether criminal charges should be filed. That's what they do. So they're usually done in secret with only. And the thing that's weird is only prosecutors present evidence. There is no defense in a grand jury.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, no, no. This is what we believe. This is what we believe to be true.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like you could say, like they could say, okay, they're indicting me for a robbery. And they're going over the facts of the case and they're saying witnesses described him as 5 foot 3, 111 pounds and of Filipino descent, blah, blah, blah. My lawyer would not be able to say he's 6 foot 4 and Italian. That's not a good description. He wouldn't be able to do that. That would have to be done at trial. They would have to. So you can. Yeah, basically. That's why there's the old expression you can indict a ham sandwich. Because you can. If you see someone go to a grand jury and not get an indictment, they had nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They had nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[James Petregallo]

Less than fucking nothing. So yeah, this is how all this is going. And the county attorney, who is a prosecutor here, said that the jurors, you know, they hear the prosecution's a version of the events. A daughter and son in law who are in debt up to their ass. They kill a wealthy father for inheritance. They fabricate this story, here's all their inconsistencies, blah, blah, blah. I mean, they make up a story about home invaders and all of that kind of thing. And in the grand jury you can bring up failed polygraph tests as well a trial, it's not. Okay. Before the grand jury again. So the weird. Also the timing. They got there in the middle of a home invasion. Fascinating timing with a pie. I mean, what a. Here's our pie. Oh no. Did they ask him, did they take the pie too?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right. Where was that?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, where's the pie? So, yeah, the grand jury is going to absolutely indict them and arrests are made. They arrest Roger and Pam. They cite all the inconsistencies and the. Basically the evidence. Roger Mortensen, when they go to arrest him, he's found near his home in a car with another guy, his wife Was inside the home. Everybody was arrested here without incident. They said, Here now. They said that when they found him, the police said, we've invited all the family to participate and he has chosen to never ever talk to us. Participate or help. At no time was he of any help with any information that would assist us. They also said that they refused to make a composite sketch of the suspects as well. So all of these things adding, why would you refuse to do good?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, why won't you help?

[James Petregallo]

Unless they're like, shit, we didn't talk about exactly what they look like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Exactly, damn it, we didn't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, shit. So their attorney says their clients are innocent. He said, my client didn't. Clients didn't commit this homicide. They were. Weren't involved in it. They didn't commit it. They didn't participate in it. He said, it's bullshit. It's all bullshit. They said they've always felt that our clients were involved. And because of that, they haven't, in our opinion, investigated the case outside of just our clients. And a big part of that is when we've talked about this before, when there's a murder, any kind of investigation, they don't look at it as a whole. They're not like, okay, let's look at the planet and check people off and all that. They go on leads and basically they take each lead and choke the life out of it until it either yields something or doesn't. And then they move on to the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Next lead or gives possibilities of things that could have happened. Yeah, at least some sort of information.

[James Petregallo]

If they have five people, they don't go, okay, we're look at all five people equally and figure out which one did it. They go, who do we think is the most guilty? They attack that one first. If that turns out that it doesn't work, then they go to number two, Then they go to number three. It's just the only way in terms of time and manpower that you could possibly conduct investigations. So that's what they're saying they did, which is probably what they did. Now, Rogers also booked for investigation of possession of marijuana, possession of drug paraphernalia, and possession of a firearm by a restricted person. So they said when they arrested him, he and another guy were smoking a bowl, basically in the car. When cops searched the house, they found a man made hidden compartment under the furnace. Oh, with six guns in it, which is where you want to keep your guns. Right by the furnace, right by the fire. It's the best place for them, I hear, right that's where you want to keep them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Keep them good and warm.

[James Petregallo]

I hear ammunition, you're supposed to keep it real hot and crispy. I hear, I don't know, could be wrong. Inside this compartment, there are six firearms, including an AK47 and a 12 gauge shotgun. Also several thousand rounds of ammunition in and around the hidden compartment. Also a.22 caliber revolver found in a safe in the garage. So not good. They are charged with murder, a first degree felony, and obstruction of justice, a third degree felony. Now, were other people involved?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Great question.

[James Petregallo]

The cops are saying they're still looking into the fact of the possibility that other people may be involved in the case. They're still looking for several guns discovered missing from the house. And they said the guns may have been part of the motive because they're very valuable. And there's still 30 guns missing. Now, they said, we know there's some guns missing, so we know that other people have information that would help us in this case. Anything's possible, basically. So they were asking, you know, is there are more people involved? They said, anything's possible to find. Do we know? Now, Pam's attorney describes the ordeal as this. Their children faced bullying at school, with classmates repeating things they'd heard their parents discussing about the case. Family gatherings became tense affairs with relatives divided between those who believed in their innocence and those who wondered if the police are right. It's not good. Pam has offered a plea deal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Because, I mean, it's not her dad. So she has offered a deal that would reduce her charges in exchange for testifying against Roger. And she said, no, not taking it. We're going to trial together. I love Roger.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

All right. So they are all set for a January 2011 trial, ready to fucking rock and roll. And then in early December 2010, they get an anonymous tip. Well, not anonymous for long, but at the time it's anonymous. An anonymous tip comes in to investigators and they end up a tip comes in that helps them obtain a search warrant for a residence in Vernal. Vernal. After searching the home, they find weapons that belonged to Kay Mortensen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Which would make sense because whoever would steal the guns would probably sell them. Yeah, that's why you stole them to begin with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, the home belongs to or live there. One of the residents at the time is a 23 year old named Martin Bond. B O N D. He knows the Mortensen family very well. In fact, he's the son of a very close friend of Kay Mortensen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Kay had known Martin since he was born, always knew him and you know, watched him grow up, was close with him, you know, all that kind of thing. So they, yeah, they said that, you know, that this guy, they think the tip that came in basically said this Martin Bond is the guy who did it and he has the guns. So they said okay. I mean that would make sense because he knew him very well. Maybe Kay would let him in. Maybe he would have let him in without holding a gun on him if he knew him very well and this guy could have surprised him. Martin's been at his house before. Martin's father and Cade were very close friends and maybe he got into the house that way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

That brings us to Benjamin Reagitt R E G G I t who's also 23. He's also arrested here and he's another one that he has no connection to Kay, but he knows Martin Bond. And neither of these guys have a criminal history by the way, Martin or Benjamin. And so they're kind of weighing whether they think this tip is actually correct or not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

And the DA says I've prosecuted a number of homicides and just in my experience I've never seen it where you have no criminal history at all. And then they go right to homicide. Yeah, it happens. It happens. But it's rare. Yeah, it's more likely from a guy with a history of violence and a brain injury and a shitload of debt. Yeah, yeah. But the guns they found, they said that Martin Bond and Ben reagged between the two of them had 20 of Morton's and stolen guns. 20 they said about a dozen weapons still missing. So. Okay, now Bond here, Martin Bond will have several stories we'll talk about. He admitted that yes, I was at the Mortensens home that night. Oh, I was. He said, yes, I did zip tie the hands of two people who arrived at the residence that night holding a piece of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And held them against their will. Now he doesn't tell the cops that. He told his ex wife that who told the cops that that's where the tip came from.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why did he do that?

[James Petregallo]

His ex wife, Rachel. That's why I don't think conspiracies, that people think conspiracies are a big deal. Someone's going to get divorced and then that person's going to tell. Someone's going to tell. They don't last criminal like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So according to her, she said Martin told her and we don't know if this is true or just some lady Trying to get back at her ex husband, too. She said that the plan was specifically about the gun collection that Martin had described to Ben Redig. The extensive firearms that Kay kept and saying they were worth like 30 grand. So they, you know, they targeted him to steal the guns.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

She tells the cops that they told Benjamin and Martin told her. They driven to kay's house on November 16th with a plan. They had a.40 caliber handgun, zip ties and latex gloves.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Which is a bad kit to have.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

When they arrived, K welcomed them in and offered them coffee.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And was talking to them. And that's when they produced weapons and zip ties and restrained him and demanded to be taken to his gun collection. And K took them to the cheap guns. Oh, he said, oh, yeah, sure, they're down here in the bunker.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I got these nothing guns.

[James Petregallo]

Those are the cheap guns. Didn't tell them where the expensive guns were hid. Those. So they took between 20 and 32 weapons and loaded them into the vehicle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And.

[James Petregallo]

And that's what this ex wife says that he, that he told him that he told her. Now that could be just shit gleaned from information that's out there. And then you just put your husband in it and that could work too. So where did Roger and Pam line up in all this shit? So according to this ex wife, it was just that they showed up at the wrong time. That's it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They literally showed up at the wrong time.

[James Petregallo]

They said they were literally had all their shit and were ready to walk out the door with the stolen weapons. And they heard a knock at the door and we're like, fuck, what do we do? Imagine being them. You just murdered a man. You have all this loot, this fucking, you know, bags with fucking money signs on them, and now there's a knock at the door and you go, they're telling the truth. They know their cars in the driveway. Yeah, well, according to the sex wife.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

This is what they said. So they said that, yeah, they, they were preparing to leave, but they came in and they said, now what the fuck do we do? These are going to be witnesses who I can identify them. So. But Martin knew them. He knew Roger, remember, from all that shit? So he knew Roger and Pam. He'd been at Kay's house days earlier and met Kay's family members and recognized Roger and Pam. So he was like, I know these people, fucking know me. So they said rather than flee and hope Roger and Pam didn't see them, they said they just kill them. I guess at that point but this is the part that's fucked up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

The ex wife then says, martin told me that they were gonna kill them. But then they said a prayer. Think about that and change their mind. How would she know that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Uh huh.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I'm saying? Said that she was being. They started saying a prayer and they had nothing to do with, you know, religion or anything like that. They just said while the prayer was going on, they had a minute to think about it. And we're like, we're going to make it even a bigger bloodbath. This is crazy. We're going to get blood all over us. Let's just leave and make these people tell a story that we want to tell.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

That's what she says. So they said that they told them to repeat a very specific script when talking to the police. They were to report that three men broke in. Black men and not us, basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So Pam later said that they told us about the people who broke in. We were told they were doing this for their families and that they, you know. And the ex wife also said that they took Roger's driver's license to try to make sure that they told the right story. Okay. Then. During the investigation, Martin Bond admits that he has buried weapons he took from Kay Mortensen.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

He showed the detectives the site of the buried weapons. And when investigators dug at that site, they discovered 14 guns, including shotguns, rifles and handguns. They found weapons in his possession with scratched out serial numbers and others in a septic tank at Vernal Park.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ew.

[James Petregallo]

You can't even use.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where are you going to get. How are you going to go back and get those? That's terrible.

[James Petregallo]

I think he was just throwing them off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He just gave them up. Yeah. I'm not dealing with these. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So while in Vernal, they also contacted the authorities. Contact Ben Redig, who fully admits to being involved in the burglary and robbery. Wow. He confirms this lady's story 100 fucking percent. He even had Roger's driver's license.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Uh oh.

[James Petregallo]

Everything they said was true, Jimmy. So their crazy story was 100% true.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They did not do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Imagine telling a story that's true and nobody believes you.

[James Petregallo]

They're sitting in jail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. On murder charges because their story's fucking crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Cuz it's crazy. And Roger can't remember details because he got a fucking brain injury.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And so he says details that don't match up to Pam and it looks like their details are inconsistent. So It's a mess. Yeah. Wow. Bond tells the cops that. He says Reddick is the one that cut his throat and stabbed him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then said something about a gladiator when he did it. He said he did that and said something about he's being a gladiator. That's a story. Reddick said Bond is the one that cut the throat and did the stabbing. But they're pointing the fingers at each other. But nobody's pointing at Roger. They're only pointing at each other. Holy fucking shit. According to Martin Bond, Redig threatened K with the handgun. Zip tied his wrists and demanded he tell him where the guns were. And that then they showed him to the bunker in the backyard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

They let him in. His ankles were zip tied and he was forced to kneel over the bathtub. Or one of the men went to the kitchen downstairs and retrieved a butcher's knife, which they. Which they each claim each other used to stab and cut the throat on. Then they. Reddig said, fucking. They showed up. Shit, what are we going to do? Basically, so they threatened to come after them. They said, tell this story or we'll come after you. I have your license now. In early 2011, Redig was arrested in Colorado on unrelated firearms charges. Illegal possession of weapons that investigators soon find out included stolen guns from Kay's house. But that wasn't put together at the time until after the ex wife called and all that. So they ran the serial numbers on the weapons through the database and several were connected to that case. So he was facing federal weapons charges and the possibility of being linked to this murder. So he didn't know what to do. So he just said, fuck it. I'll confess to everything. And Reddick spills. It's detailed. He admitted to participating in the robbery and murder here and implicated. That's again, he's implicating Bond as the killer. According to his accounts. Yeah, it's all Bond, Bond, Bond and more Bond. The confessions came with his own version of events that kind of were a little more advantageous to him. He said that Martin Bond forced him to participate in the murder under threat of being killed himself, as you do. He said, I was just a reluctant partner. That's it? Just a reluctant participant?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I just wanted to rob some shit. I didn't want to do any of this stuff. He said that Bond kept talking about going to Morten's house to steal the guns. According to his account, Martin had seen K's gun collection and knew where he could find weapons worth money. And Reddick claimed that bond was the driving force behind the crime. With the one with the plan and the inside knowledge. I just went along to get some free guns.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

So the prosecutor said based on this, they now think these two are the murderers for sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Because they told a story that checks out.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The prosecutor said this is a huge paradigm shift for us. This came out of the blue.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. We didn't have any fucking idea.

[James Petregallo]

No. So, I mean, December 8, 2010, they're in jail. What, do we go to the K or go to Roger and Pam and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Go, whoopsie, sorry about it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, dude, and think about if. Imagine this lady didn't come forward.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus. They would have got.

[James Petregallo]

They're getting convicted. They're absolutely getting convicted. Fuck, yes, they're getting super convicted. They're done. Their story looks terrible. They were definitely there. It makes no sense. They're going to prison forever if that's. If they don't. If that woman doesn't come forward, they owe that lady their fucking life. That's wild. So a cop said, this has been a year of intensive investigation on hundreds of leads and interviews and the collection of numerous stolen firearms from other cases. So it's been a pretty intensive case that solved a lot of other cases they don't mention. And the arrest of two innocent people and jailing of not only innocent people, but fucking victims of violent crime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

These people were dragged in the house at gunpoint, zip tied while their father was murdered, told they were going to be killed, and then let go and threatened under death, and then arrested and then arrested and put in jail for five fucking months. I mean, dude, you cannot have worse luck than that. No, it's one thing to just accuse innocent people, but victims? Jesus, that's horrifying. So, yeah, then they find out the tip came from Martin's ex wife. See, that's why you don't want to be 23 and have an ex wife already.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's bad.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. There's a reason why you don't. And that's why Rachel Bingham is her name. And, yeah, she gave it all up. And she said before she made the call, she'd been struggling with the decision for months. She knew about this for months? Months, months. She watched those people get arrested.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

And she said, fuck. She said not only did she know the details of the crime, she even helped him move some of the stolen guns.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

That's how she knew. She said the turning point was she had a relationship with a man Named Peter Smith. And Smith later said that he and Kirk, she told him what happened and he encouraged her to go to the police. You gotta go to the police. There's two innocent people. You know, never mind your ex husband. So Rachel said, he helped me see what was going on with the Mortensens and that they were being wrongly accused. Just telling him I could see how bad everything really was and that it needed to be told no matter how scared I was. She said, I just watched the news. Those people are going to jail for something they didn't do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably for life. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And imagine how perplexing it would have been for Martin and Ben to do all this. Their hope and their plan was for this investigation to get turned and be going toward searching for three black guys. Instead they're watching the victims get arrested for the crime that they committed. They gotta be going, fuck, what do we do here? This is. Oh, shit, this is bad. But they still kept driver's licenses and guns. Get rid of everything at that point, you stupid. Jesus Christ, man. So anyway, Rachel said that Martin and Ben confessed everything to the crime to her. How they planned it, everything. So she described to the police how Kay was forced to kneel over the bathtub. How the killers positioned him. Specific details about the weapons used, the sequence of events, and also the. The stolen weapons that. Where she was found. But yeah, I guess it was always robbery. Rachel said Bond said that him and his friend Ben drove up to Pace into Ken Mortenson's, which he knew from childhood. And that he entered K's home and took his life and took K's guns. And then like I said, Bond said it was Reading who killed. Reading said it was Bond who killed. Now they're executing a search warrant here. And that's when they find all of this shit here. And they said that they found firearms a lot with the serial numbers removed, but at least a few of them that had serial numbers. And then they're. And they were kept with guns that fit the description minus the serial number of stolen guns. Yeah, so that makes a lot of fucking sense. Other evidence here, there's blood analysis, forensic evidence, weapon recovery. Yeah, everything is looking dead at Martin and Benjamin as the killers here. Not good at all. So Darla, the widow. Yeah, she says, we thought it was just. If just one weapon would surface, it would make all the difference. It would tell the story and we'd have answers. We're going to get the answers now. And that's all I wanted to know. I just wanted to know what happened that Night. So now, did they act alone? Do they have anybody helping them?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a good question.

[James Petregallo]

The prosecutor said, we feel pretty confident that there was no one else. The individuals, when they went into the house told Roger and Pam to tell a story, and as part of that story, to say that there were three individuals. The prosecutors believe that there's evidence to support that and they know it. So the prosecutor said, roger and Pam are going to be our witnesses now. Oh, be like, you can suck my butt balls is where you could fucking keep that shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm not you at all.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm not talking to you. I'm not coming down to the station. I'm not going to the courthouse. You know what? We'll do this by zoom. And the picture the whole time will be of my asshole as I spread my shit. Show it to you the whole time. No, no. Puckered asshole is what you're gonna all look at the entire fucking procedure. Fuck you gonna come and help you people now get me in jail for five months now. Fern, Kay's younger sister, attended the hearing. And following the hearing, she expressed relief that it wasn't Roger and Pam. Basically, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's just thankful. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She said, we're just so happy this is the best possible resolution other than finding Kay alive. It's going to be a lot of healing. I mean, obviously, if he's dead, that'd be better. So the arrest announcement made huge headlines because the local media had been reporting this every detail for a year. And then when they arrested Roger and Pam, it was like, oh, these big deal. And all the comments, you pieces of shit. Killing your own father, who's taking care of you for years. I mean, you want to talk about getting excoriated? Look at the comments on some of these fucking articles of them getting arrested. It is wild. I mean, there's. Every once in a while, they're like, I know Roger and Pam, I don't think they did this. But every now and one out of 20. Yeah, but the rest of them are. These are the worst people alive, these pieces of shit. Let's put the gallows right in the courtroom. And I mean, literally, that's what it is. I mean, let's just take them right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There, Rent a center, credit, fuck that.

[James Petregallo]

They don't even need. They don't even need a trial. Like, I was wild, man. It's like, this is why you need a trial or whatever. So it was a big deal. And the prosecutor also says the murder charges against Roger and Pam Mortensen will be Dismissed, their attorney says. They said, how do you feel? And they go, well, obviously very happy and relieved after hearing the news. Pamela Mortensen can't recover six months of her life, but she does not fault the Utah County Attorney's Office for the incarceration. She doesn't really. Who the fuck else's fault is it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's 100% their fault.

[James Petregallo]

All their fault, period.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, I would be. Fuck them. Fuck that guy. I want, like, eight get out of jail free cards, and I'm gonna be doing some shit around this town. You see, like, a car drive, like, right through a Carl's Jr. Window. That was me. And I'm allowed to fuck off. It's happening right now. So. Wow. And then the guy even went on to praise the prosecution, really continuing to investigate. They didn't. They got a fucking anonymous tip.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They thought it was over.

[James Petregallo]

They were 100% all in on these two. They got a tip. If they didn't get that tip, none of this happens. They said the county Attorney's office worked the case hard. They changed what they had. We told them they were wrong and we told them not to stop looking. To their credit, they didn't. So when will they release Roger and Pamela? Because they're still in jail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why they think so?

[James Petregallo]

I know they have. They have all four of them in jail. Martin, Ben, and these two. They're all in jail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're a part of it either way, huh?

[James Petregallo]

No, they just. They said they planned to drop charges against them. They faced, obviously, murder charges. They said they're supposed to be out of jail, but we can't find a judge to order it. Their lawyer says, can we hurry up and figure out and find one? The prosecutors didn't return calls to the press here about this, but the lawyer for the. For Pam and Roger says, I don't fault them for filing a case that proved to be wrong. I applaud them for admitting they did wrong and are doing the right thing. We've always said that they were not involved in the homicide. They were hostages in a home invasion. They said they just walked into a crime in progress that's now been solved and they've had to sit in jail for that shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it. It's like a bad Ben Stiller movie.

[James Petregallo]

It's so fucking bad. They said, how's Pam feeling right now? And he said, she's still very much upset right now. She's in jail and has been there for four and a half months. I think she just wants to be home probably Yeah, I would be the biggest pain in the ass at that point. I'm leaving today.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right now.

[James Petregallo]

There's gonna be problems.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll be gone yesterday.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I am gonna make shit happen. So there's more charges against me. Because it's gonna be wild in here. I'm gonna throw piss on guards in a minute. Get me the fuck out of here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're gonn reason to keep me in a second.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. So finally, the murder charges are dropped, but the officials say. Officials say they're still listed as persons of interest in the case.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Which is wild. Yeah, man. So their attorney later would criticize the grand jury process, saying, we're going to end up with more people like Roger Mortensen because of our poor grand jury system. The grand jury only heard the prosecutor's side of the story, which. That's all grand juries. Yeah. They said that the prosecutors should have filed charges and let a judge decide if the trial was merited, rather than using the grand jury process where attorneys can't present their side of the story. That was the point, was they were avoiding that. They knew they could make it look bad enough for a grand jury to indict them. If you go to a judge, it's a little different. Then both lawyers can talk. And, you know, I think they still would have got the indictment against these two, probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I think they would have got a fucking conviction against these two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Their defense is crazy. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Their defense is ridiculous. Imagine their case went to trial. Imagine Pam getting up on the stand and saying, I came over with a pie. And next thing I know, we're getting zip tied, but not that tight, loose enough to where we can get out, slide it off without even scratching ourselves or anything like that. We said a prayer. They lowered their heads and observed it with us and then changed their minds. Then said, fuck it, but say we're black and left. You're going to jail. You're going to prison forever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just tell me. We were both in green sweaters.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, my God. No shit. So Roger. They release Pam very quickly. Roger has to stay in because he's got a firearms charge as well on him. So he has to stay in for an extra minute till they figure out what to do with that. Then in March of 2011, Roger has another run in with the law. Unbelievable.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

A snowmobiler got in an argument with Roger in Utah county because Roger's dogs were running wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Doesn't want to run over the dogs.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I don't want to have to be dodging dogs out here.

[James Petregallo]

The snowmobiler kicked one of Roger's dogs.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Which, yeah, we're going to war now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I'll probably pull guns over that.

[James Petregallo]

And the man became enraged and he yelled, you had better be worried about your equipment when you leave, is what he yelled at Roger. Roger then walked toward the snowmobiler with his fist clenched and said, I just got out of jail for murder. I didn't even fucking kill you. I didn't do it. But they had me in there. I'm hard. Yeah, he just basically said, I'm hard, motherfucker. Try me. Which. So he gets arrested for that. Can't do that. June 23, 2011. Roger is in trouble again. Still in trouble. He's going to have to plead guilty to being a felon in possession of firearms and ammunition. So, yeah, they said that, you know, the Assistant US Attorney had a request that he served prison time because of his explosive temper.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they're trying to put him in prison after they just serve. I'd be like, motherfucker, how about the five and a half months I did? How about that? You want to see a temper? Fuck you. Yeah, I got five and a half months credit right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm sorry, I'm doing things like. Like I charged too much on my credit card and then overpaid.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I just got out of jail for murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got $5,000 of extra credit on my fucking Amex. I'm gonna buy some crazy things.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Every once in a while we'll like, for some reason, overpay our water bill, and we get the one the next day next month, and it's like, negative $36.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's $36 worth of water next month.

[James Petregallo]

That's what's up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's where I'm at. I got five months of free prison time that I get to punch people off of.

[James Petregallo]

Do whatever I want. I could punch you right in the face and I should go free, you know? So Roger admitted to possessing a Vector Arms Uzi 9 millimeter machine gun. He's got an Uzi?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Along with several other firearms that Utah authorities initially said were stolen from his father, but apparently they weren't. Roger's attorney said that Roger took the weapons after Kay died, which he was allowed to do because they were his now, he was inheriting them at that point, and because the guns were a part of his father's estate that he was due to inherit. And you just don't leave guns in some empty house. So you take them. So now Roger knew he couldn't possess the weapons because he was a convicted felon. So they said, look, he just made a poor choice in trying to hide his father's guns in the garage. In part because of his brain injury. He's not all there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Forgot he put them all there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you forget he didn't even realize it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the judge says Mr. Mortensen has had a difficult life. Nevertheless, he was culpable in this case. He knew what he was doing. And he involved a friend and said, you, sir, may fuck off. 36 months of probation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Gives him. I think he basically. That was. He said, we owe him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Making up for it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I think so too. Which was a big deal. Now this also. He has to stay under strict supervision and attend veterans court. I continue to attend Veterans Court with U.S. magistrate Paul Warner. The program is designed to rehabilitate veterans who have had brushes with the law. Criminal veterans. So that's what that is. Roger must also continue to take medication for his mental illness. I don't know what kind of medication you take for pudding brain, but maybe it kicked other things in there. Otherwise his brain's been smashed. I don't know what kind of pills fix that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What thickens up pudding?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Was there a little flower? Maybe a little ruin there? Start a roo. So the maximum penalty he could have faced was 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine and three years of supervised release. So instead, he just got three years probation. Sentencing guidelines are based on likelihood to reoffend and all that kind of shit. Here, by the way, the guidelines placed his recommended incarceration time at 21 to 27 months.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So the judge 100% gave him a break because they kept him in jail and accused him of killing his dad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's no probation. Not bad.

[James Petregallo]

3. 36 months probation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

33 years.

[James Petregallo]

3 years probation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Could have got 20 months in jail, though.

[James Petregallo]

He could have gotten. No, no more than that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Years.

[James Petregallo]

He could have gotten 10 years and then three years of supervised release.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they just cut off the jail part. Yeah, yeah. Also, there is a co defendant, William Robert Lemieux. Mario's little brother.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Who was sentenced also. He received 36 months of probation after pleading guilty to one count of possession of an unregistered machine gun and admitted to helping Roger handle his father's gun collection. Now, over time, Martin's story is going to change a lot. Martin Bond, all sorts of shit here. He told his ex wife that he held the handgun while Redig murdered Kay with the knife. First he initially involved any. Denied any involvement. Then he said that he had no weapons. Then he said he had a gun and the other guy killed him. He went back and forth, but in the end, the only thing that he's absolutely positive about is that Reddick was the one who stabbed and killed. And cut the throat.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's all he knows. Then while he's in prison or jail, Martin Bond passes notes to another inmate in which he claimed that he killed K, but that Benjamin Redig forced him to do so by threatening him with the gun. Now, these jail notes were handwritten and nice cursive and everything like that. They were in his handwriting being passed between cells using shoelaces. So they were fishing kites at this point with the shoelaces. And yeah, in there they were discovered as a 21 year old inmate came forward with these notes who'd been housed near him. He's later convicted of robbing a credit union. So a bank robber. He testified about the note passing system and his conversations. He said, I and Bond, I and Bond, I and Bond would write notes called kites and pass them using what the inmates refer to as fishing, tying the notes to a shoelace and tossing them between cells. One night, the inmate wrote a note asking why Bond was blaming Redig for the. For doing the cutting of the throat and stabbing him in the neck. And Bond's response was this quote. Well, Ben. Well, Ben made the situation. When K and I tried to talk to him, he freaked out more and a bunch of other stuff happened. It came to the point where he was going to kill him, but made me instead. It was that or he said he'd shoot me so that no one could say anything. That's why his throat was cut. He wouldn't give me the gun. I thought he was suffering, so that's why I stabbed him. Okay, so now he said he actually did it. And so that's how that works. Now, are these notes real or are these a credit union bank robber guy trying to get some time off his sentence? A handwriting expert from the Salt Lake City County Police Department knows and they, they do know. Like, I got a guy. Actually, they verify these. I got a guy. If we want to know, they were written by Martin Bond. So he looks real guilty right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not good. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They also get another staff member of the jail to testify at a hearing that Bond and another inmate had been housed in nearby cells. So they could have been passing notes. Because sometimes we've had this before where people will come forward and they're on the other cell block. So he ends up using these notes very strategically and ends up getting a deal, a better plea deal in his robbery case, as long as he testifies at the trial. Redig said this. These are in his own words here. He said about Martin, quote, he came to me the night before that he wanted to meet this guy that had guns and he needed someone to drive. Okay. We went to Walmart when we first started into town there and got black hoodies and ski masks and some kind of like purple gloves. She was fucking telling the truth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nailed it.

[James Petregallo]

Everyone was telling the truth. He says as they entered the home. He gives me the gun and says, stay in the car. I'm going to go up to the door. He'll knock on it and Kay will answer because he knows him. As soon as the door closes, I want you to come through the front door to knock. Don't knock, just come through the front door. The guy standing there and he's knocking. What's going on? Because he knows, you know, he knows Marty, apparently. He said that. Wow. Right before the killing, he said, he told me, you don't have to do this. You don't have to do this. I told him, oh, it's. We're just going to leave you up here. We're just going to get the guns and we're going to leave. So Kay was telling them, you don't have to do this. And he was telling K, oh, yeah, yeah, don't worry, we're not going to kill you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're just going to hurt anybody. Just want the guns.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Then he says about Martin, quote, I thought he was just going to go there and knock him out. We were just going to tie him to the fucking toilet or something. It's not this butcher knife. He said. And then he had him lean over the tub and he slashed his throat and stabbed the back of his neck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

So the detective says, who cut his throat? And he said, it was Marty. And he said it was Marty. It was Marty. And he said, yes, Marty. Marty who? And he said, marty who? It was Marty. And he said, marty. I swear to God. Marty Bond, who he's finding out very quickly, does not have a license to kill this particular Bond.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That is the name that I think James would name his. His son Martin. Like the car.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Little Martin. Yeah. This is my Martin Bond. Yeah. He does not get the same licenses. He said, I swear to God. Marty Bond. That was more he said. What did he say? Oh, I could have stopped that, you know, But I just sat there and he said that he feels shame about himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, the sheriff acknowledged that this is the craziest fucking case that's ever existed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't believe we were so wrong.

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We followed all the info, all the leads, and we got to the right spot, and it was all wrong.

[James Petregallo]

We got the most ridiculous story in history, and it's all true.

[Jimmy Wissman]

100% right.

[James Petregallo]

He said, this has been. This is the sheriff. This has been an unusual case from the start, and it will continue to be an unusual case until it's over. This is fucking weird. So Bond makes a little bit of a deal. Okay? He's gonna be charged with one count of aggravated murder, three counts of aggravated kidnapping, and one count of aggravated burglary, one count of aggravated robbery. To avoid the possibility of the death penalty, he makes an agreement with the state that he would be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. And if the jury convicted him of aggravated murder. So if he gets convicted, there's no doubt about what that sentence will be. He can't, like, argue for a release at some point. That's it. So October 2011, Pam and Roger, guess what they do?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got married.

[James Petregallo]

File a fucking. They've been married. They file a lawsuit. No, it's lawsuit time now. Yeah. Against the county sheriff, the prosecutor, everything. Claiming they misrepresented evidence to the grand jury.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Because an honest mistake you can't sue over. It has to be malice involved of some kind. You can't just be like, oh, really? We really look guilty. And they arrested us. Because if I'm the cops, I go, what would you have done? Like, you would have arrested you, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Your story doesn't make any sense.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's stupid.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Reality's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

You sound like idiots.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So before the Bond trial, the Martin Bond trial, Ben Reddick pleads guilty to aggravated murder and aggravated kidnapping and agrees to testify against Martin in exchange for what he calls favorable sentencing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So we'll find out what that is in a minute here. Now the trial comes along. Martin Bond trial. And the prosecutor said to the jury, under the guise of friendship, Martin Gahn Barton Bond got into the house. The reason that K let this person into the house is because he knew him. He knew Martin Bond. Martin Bond had been to his house before Martin's Bond. Martin Bond's father and Kay were extremely good friends. Under the guise of friendship, Martin Bond got into that house, he said. Then he let his friend Ben into the house. They threatened Mortensen with a gun, and he escorted them Outside to a bunker where he kept some weapons. And he said that Kay didn't put up a fight. He just opened the door. But before they took anything, they escorted him back to his home, into an upstairs bathroom where they had him kneel on the ground over a bathtub. Then Martin Bond went to the kitchen, grabbed a knife, returned to the bathroom and repeatedly slashed Kaye's throat. And said, when you hear the facts of this case, it will almost sound like a crime novel at times, but it isn't fiction. Yeah, we didn't make this shit up. This sounds like we made it up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So during the trial, a guy named Peter Smith testifies. Remember, that's the guy who convinced the ex wife to turn him in. He said that he's had conversations with Bond that seem fucked up in hindsight. He said Martin liked to talk about guns, how to use those guns. Those were the things we pretty much always talked about, was guns and how to commit murders.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

That's what we talked about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a fun day.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy, it's enough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shut up.

[James Petregallo]

I'm gonna ask you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stop telling me. Stop trying to bring this conversation up so often, James.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. How many times? That's all we do. We had three, five hours a week of this murder. We spend plenty of time in cars going between cities for four hours and all this type of shit. Do we ever talk about guns and how to commit murders? Does that ever come up, ever? Never, never. He would talk about slicing throats because that's how he would do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He said, oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

And in the most horrifying fashion of all time. Just blood. How much is the most blood I can get out of somebody? Oh, I got an idea. Go to the source and cut it. Holy shit. So the defense attorneys will question his credibility regarding his sobriety during these conversations. Like people who haven't had three beers talk about slicing throats.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I think that that's a conversation that needs some lubrication. Meaning alcoholic lubrication.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You don't just start talking about cutting throats while you're having chick fil A at 2 o' clock in the afternoon or some shit. That's just weird. Smith said I was drunk enough that I shouldn't have been driving, but not drunk enough that I wasn't coherent. You know, drunk enough to talk about murders with your friend. Basically, that drunk.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This will guide the car down the road.

[James Petregallo]

They call Ben Redig to the stand now. Okay. Now he's called to the stand. He refuses to answer certain questions. Oh, which Is not part of the deal. He's supposed to answer questions. Yeah. They granted him immunity to testify. He said that he has a fear of federal firearms prosecutions for the gun stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

But the state granted him immunity to testify, and the court permitted the prosecution to ask him leading questions in front of the jury regarding the crimes. He answered some questions, but then repeatedly invoked his fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination. He admitted he planned to meet up with Martin Bond the day of the murder. But when the prosecutor asked what happened after they met, he said that he refused to answer the question or to testify any further, which is not part of the deal. So outside the presence of the jury, the trial court told Ben Redig that he had already waived his right against self incrimination and was under subpoena to testify. The court ordered him to testify and he said, no, no, no, not gonna do it. And he was dismissed as a witness. So just refuse, doesn't matter. Um, the Martin Bonds attorney declined to cross examine him, insisting that the questioning him was not permissible given the invocation of privilege. So he did his fifth Amendment rights already. Now, the next day, the prosecutor requested that Ben Redig be called in again. I feel like getting kicked in the nuts again. Let's bring him back in here. And saying the state will grant him immunity. Defense counsel, as well as Ben Reddick's own attorney, they protested, arguing that immunity would not protect him from possible federal prosecution. He said that you can only grant state immunity. You can't grant federal immunity. So his attorney informed the trial court that he intended to invoke his fifth Amendment privilege against self incrimination despite any promise of immunity. So the court granted the prosecution's request to call him, but proceeded with initial questioning outside the presence of the jury on the stand. He ordered again answered some more questions he was consistently answering. So the court brought the jury back in to allow them to watch the questioning. And they also granted the prosecution, basically granted the prosecution leave to treat him as a hostile witness and pose leading questions. You could. You can't ask a leading question.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

You have to say what happened that day. You can't say, isn't that a leading question? No, what happened that. Because that would be like, okay, it was this date. Okay, what happened that day? That's fine. But you can't say like what happened at 2:30 at the Piggly Wiggly when you saw that one guy. That's a leading question. You know what I'm saying? So you can't have that. But if you're Treating someone as a hostile witness, you can do that. Total different court rules. So he responded to a number of the initial questions, but when the detailed questions came about the crime, he said, fifth Amendment, bitches.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. So Bond's attorney moves for a mistrial based on the state's calling of Ben Redding and forcing him to invoke the privilege before the jury. The trial court said, fuck no, we're not having a mistrial.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're getting.

[James Petregallo]

We're getting through this shit. The jury comes in and finds Martin Bond guilty of everything. Yeah, guilty of everything. And at sentencing. This is insane. At sentencing they said, you got anything to say for yourself, Marty? Sure do. He said, if I really was the monster everyone thinks I am, then Roger and Pam wouldn't be sitting here today. I was in a bad situation and I did the best I could to save two lives. In his version, he's actually a hero, really, if you think about it, he's actually just a hero who's being totally boned right now. The judge says, okay, well, that may be, but you, sir, may fuck off. Life without the possibility of parole and additional decades on top of that for aggravated kidnapping, burglary, robbery. But they don't matter because he's never getting out. Yeah. Now Benjamin Redding gets sentenced. He didn't cooperate like he was supposed to, really, or anything like that, but they sentence him to, you, sir, may fuck off. 25 to life in prison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He. He was only 25 years old when they sentenced him. He's getting out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. And that's not good.

[James Petregallo]

No, he's getting the fuck out of jail. He didn't even.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So soon, even.

[James Petregallo]

I mean. Yeah, I mean, 25. I don't know if 25 to life maybe means 25, but he'll be 50. Yeah, I mean, that's killing left in you. Yeah, that's fine. So the lawsuit. Yeah, the lawsuit. Okay. The Mortensen's attorney said, there is no way you can ever repay the embarrassment and humiliation, the mortification, the pain of being accused of a vile and grisly murder of your own father. How do you ever get past that? Hard to argue that, I would say. Here they. In their lawsuit, they claim officers and prosecutors lied to them about them to the grand jury. That's what they said. Now the court dismisses their lawsuit here, which seems insane that they don't get anything for this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nothing at all.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing. Their lawyer said when we filed the case, it was a very good case. It involved falsehoods told by several Officers to the grand jury. It left the grand jury with the false impression that these people were flim flam hustlers. Flim flam hustlers. Wow. I've never heard flim flam hustlers before. It's a good one. That was the clear impression left by the evidence. And most of it was false. He said that he was confident they could have prevailed in this civil lawsuit if not for a just then US Supreme Court ruling that declared all witnesses. All witness statements given before a grand jury are immune to civil litigation, including those given by law enforcement. Oh, so you can say any fucking thing you want in a grand jury and no one can sue you? That's the law. That is a ridiculously stupid law.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It should have to be under threat of perjury or. Yeah, it is, Right? I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm sure there is. You can't. I'm sure there's that. But it's immune to civil litigation. So no one can sue you for what you said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

So you could make up a whole giant story getting someone indicted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they can't sue you at all. Which is wild. Just fucking wild that they can do that. So they said that was a big deal. And the attorney said what? That left us with whether we could find something other than grand jury testimony. We couldn't find anything. But he was adamant that the officers lied through their teeth, probably due to the pressure to solve the case. He gets it. But the attorney who represented the officers and prosecutors said the case was fatally flawed because there's always been immunity for witnesses who testify before grand juries, including police and prosecutors. I think they should be the only ones who aren't immune, if anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

If you say civilians or them. They should have to tell the truth because they're the only ones getting fucking paid to do that. We're paying you money to do that. If you don't do it, at least give us your fucking paycheck back. How about that? What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

All of it. And your 401k too.

[James Petregallo]

Gimme it all. Yeah. So the defense or Mortensen's attorney said the ruling upended 40 years of precedence. The other side said it's merely reaffirmed the broad blanket immunities that prosecutors and officers have always had. For good and sound reasons. He said the law is quite clear that witnesses are always clothed with broad immunity. We want people to participate in legal proceedings without fear or retribution. That was a fundamental flaw with the complaint. Well, guess what? Cops have to do it anyway because it's their fucking job and they're subpoenaed. Tell the truth and you don't have to worry about anything. What are we talking about? You're allowed to lie because you're a cop. That's the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard. Wow. Roger and Pam, they must be pissed. They released a statement saying it's hard to understand that falsifying information to a grand jury, especially by law enforcement, could be tolerated in our situation. Our right to have compensation for the injustices in. Inflicted on us by detectives, sheriff's department and public defender has been halted. You would think they'd at least. There's gotta be some kind of settlement, at least for the fact that they were. For five months. They probably lost their houses, they probably lost things. Jobs like, you know, ruined their life pretty well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. At least, you know, the bills they had piled up to pay them back for. Obviously anything else you can't. The. The mental anguish and everything of being in jail for that long. Now Martin Bond is going to appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel. So he says it's ineffective assistance because counsel did not move for a mistrial based on an alleged confrontational clause violation. He contends that counsel's performance was deficient because there was no conceivable legitimate tactic or strategy for failing to move on this ground. Also, he claims he was prejudiced because the trial court would have been compelled to grant the mistrial based on the confrontational clause violation. Okay, the Redding testimony is the big one here. He challenges this, that the state called Benjamin Redig to testify knowing full well that Redding intended to invoke the Fifth Amendment. So they knew that. So they said that he had pleaded guilty. He obviously, Reddick did and took the stand and proceeded to plead the Fifth on most questions. Stonewalling the prosecution. Bond argued that this was prosecutorial misconduct, a deliberate ploy to put a witness before the jury who would refuse to speak, creating an aura of guilt by association because he's been. He's already pled guilty to this crime. So. Yeah, that's interesting. The prosecutor first asked Redig these questions. Question 1. Isn't it true that you've told the police that the reason you were meeting up with Mr. Bond is because you and him had talked about going to a man's house and taking some guns the day before November 15, 2009? That's one of the. Yeah, that. Is that true? Question two. Isn't it true that you told police that Mr. Bond had actually approached you the day before and talked about going to some guy's house in Payson and stealing some guns? Question three. Okay, so the question is, isn't it true that when you. That you told the police that you drove from Vernal to Payson, that you stopped at Walmart and bought some zip ties and latex gloves and some hoodies with Mr. Bond? Question 4. Isn't it true that you told the police that you went up to K. Mortensen's house and Mr. Bond told you to stay in the car while he went and knocked on the door? And question five, Isn't it true that you actually entered the house at the direction of Mr. Bond with the gun and you helped zip tie Kay Mortensen? Isn't that true? Isn't it true that you told the. Isn't that the truth that you told the police? Now, in this appeal, they claim that these questions imply that Martin Bond took the lead in the early stages of the robbery without Redig even answering the questions of whether he did or not. They suggest that Mr. Bond originated the idea of robbing Mortensen, directing Mr. Redig to remain in the car when they arrived, knocking on the door, and then prompting Ben Redig to come in the home. But many of these factual assertions were established by other evidence already presented to the jury, the court says. The appeals court. For example, in a recorded interview with police, Mr. Bond explained that he and Mr. Redig had planned to travel to the Mortenson home to steal the guns.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And.

[James Petregallo]

And that they met up for that purpose.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

So that's fine. They said that Bond's ex wife also testified and that Martin told her that he drove with Reddig to Payson to rob Mortensen. So it was backed up on twofold that it was true. Additionally, the state presented evidence that Mr. Bond bought zip ties and latex gloves and brought them to Mortensen's home on the night of the murder. So they've already established this shit here, they said. More importantly, none of the first five questions directly contradicts or undermines Mr. Bond's compulsion defense. When the pair entered Mortensen's home, Mr. Bond and Mr. Reddig were carrying out a mutually agreed upon plan to rob him of his guns. According to Mr. Bond's theory of the case, the plan went awry when Mr. Redding forced him to kill Mr. Mortensen at gunpoint. And Mr. Redding's alleged compulsion did not occur until well after the pair exited the car and entered the home. So you can't say he forced you. If you both were there, he only went, yeah, yeah. The forcing has to be at a different time, they said. Thus any implication that Mr. Bond took the lead in the early stages of the stages of the robbery did not foreclose the possibility that Mr. Redig changed the course and later forced him at gunpoint to kill Mr. Mortensen. So, yeah, they said, we therefore conclude these initial questions were unlikely to undermine Mr. Bond's defense or affect the outcome of the trial. Then there's two more questions that were more direct. Question six is, isn't it true that you repeatedly told the police that Mr. Bond is the one who stabbed and killed Kay Mortensen and that you were holding the gun upstairs in the bathroom? Isn't that true? They said this question was not harmful to Mr. Bond's defense because it actually restates Mr. Bond's own version of events. The state had introduced notes that Mr. Bond wrote and passed and all that kind of shit. So, yeah. Moreover, defense counsel argued the same version of events in closing on the basis of Mr. Bond's compulsion defense. Far from prejudice prejudicing Mr. Bond, this question actually paralleled his theory of the case. And then the seventh question was the prosecutor asked, isn't it true that you didn't get any guns or anything? Or any. You didn't get paid or you didn't receive anything? That's what you told the police, that you didn't receive anything at all? Now, through the jail notes, the jury had already heard that Mr. Redig left all the stolen guns with Mr. Bond after the murders. And so that was a moot point, too. So they said there was substantial evidence already in the record to establish that Mr. Reddick had not received any sort of financial or any other benefit from this event. So therefore, the jury had already heard the evidence that he didn't receive the guns. So they conclude that the question would have little impact on the jury. So they said, for each of the seven questions, Mr. Bond has failed to demonstrate prejudice resulting from the prosecutor's assertions that would undermine our confidence in the jury's verdict. His second challenge involved the prosecutor's use of leading questions when questioning Redig, which Bond claimed violated his rights under the confrontation clause. The court's analysis ventured into the murky waters established by Douglas versus Alabama, where the Supreme Court held that even though prosecutors questions weren't technically evidence, they, quote, may as well have. May well have been the equivalent in the jury's mind of testimony and that the jury might improperly infer that the statement had been made and that that statement was true. So anyway, fuck off. Dismissed. Life in prison without parole. Take that, dickhole. Now, in the media, this murder was the subject of a 2013 episode of on the Case with Paul Azahn entitled Bound by truth. Also 2013, an episode of Dateline. They seem to. There's an episode of Dateline for everything entitled Murder at Payson Canyon, which doesn't sound all that juicy, does it? Murder at Pace Canyon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Accidentally in jail. How about that?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Holy shit. This is fucked up. That would have been a good date.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whoops the daisy. That's a good one.

[James Petregallo]

Check. Check this wild ass shit out. So more recently it was covered in an episode of Trace of Evil titled the Perplexing Case of K. Mortensen, which aired in 2021. Now, K. Is buried at the Ephraim or whatever it is. Ephraim State Cemetery. And that's in Utah, in San Pete County, Utah. So you can find him. He's in plot H365. Okay, go take a look at K. And there you go, everybody. That is Payson, Utah. That's insane. Is it not insane?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't believe it.

[James Petregallo]

It's wild. Those people were. They were done, cooked, and then going to prison forever. Forever. And people are like, oh, you fucking heartless. Just admit it, you heartless assholes. Like, we swear I just have brain damage. Don't remember so well. And that was the other thing they talked about too in the papers was that the police never really took his brain damage into account, as he. He would be a bad. He'd be bad at recalling facts from what just happened because he has bad short term memory. He just tried his best. He tried his best, failed on some accounts. And they went, that's guilt. That's brain damage. So there you go, everybody. If you like that show, or really you like any of the shows that we make, ever get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars. It helps so much. We don't know why. We wish we did, but we don't know it does though. So it helps drive us up the charts, help us out. If you want to help out the show, also head over to Shut up and give me murder dot com. Get your merchandise. Get your tickets, baby. Live shows, yes, they're coming this fall. Seattle and Philly and D.C. have some tickets left. And I think there might be a few left in San Diego, but check. Yeah. And everybody else keep checking back because we have some. They give us some like holds and comps and stuff. And we are eventually release those. So anywhere where you're looking to go at some point, a few tickets are going to pop up there. So keep an eye out for those. Keep going back to shutupandgivememurder.com and getting all the info on that shit. So do that. Definitely follow us on social media. We are Smalltown Murder on Instagram at Smalltown Pot on Facebook. Also follow on Patreon. Get yourself Patreon. You deserve it, damn it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you do.

[James Petregallo]

Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get not only a gigantic back catalog of bonus stuff that you've never heard before immediately upon subscription to binge, but then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. And you just get them all. Take them. This week we're gonna do some updates for crime and sports, especially BJ Penn, who is claiming that his family has been kidnapped and replaced with replicas. It's crazy. We'll talk about that. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about that whole Amy Bradley situation. The woman who disappeared from the cruise ship over 25 years ago, is she still alive? Did she fall off the cruise ship? Did she jump off? Is she still around? We'll get into all that shit and more and more reasons to never go on a cruise. We should just call the Small town murder Patreons reasons to not go on cruises or go to amusement parks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cruisers are disgusting.

[James Petregallo]

They are gross. So we'll get into that and more. And you get everything ad free now as well. All of our shows ad free on Patreon. Now a little bit of an explanation because I've had messages where a couple people are like, listen, I'm still getting ads on that. This is complicated technical shit. But we have, and this is only for the next couple weeks, we have baked in ads, which means when we upload it to our server, it has an ad in the actual file of the show. Now I make two versions. I make that version, I make an ad free version with no ad in it. Now what we do is we upload it to our server. The only way to make this work is then Patreon pulls that from that feed onto Patreon. So that has a baked in ad on it now. So what we have to do is immediately go into Patreon, pull that file and replace it with the ad free version of it. Do you understand? So if people have like automatic Downloads on Patreon or if they go in the first 10, 15 minutes or something. And listen, it has an ad on it still because it's still in the process of replacing the file. I'm saying all this to say this is ending in the next couple weeks, right? And they're shortly getting rid of the Libsyn, our network is getting rid of the baked in ads. So they'll only be dynamically inserted ads, which means they will pull, they'll pull the ad free version off this thing and that's what you'll get immediately and always. So sorry for a little confusion. If you had to fast forward for like a minute and a half once, honestly, I mean, if you paid for it to not have to do that, we do apologize, but we're fixing it. We're trying to get a thing going with a network and then a whole other system and trying to make them talk to each other and finger fuck. It takes a minute. So you know what I'm saying? So definitely sign up for Patreon, get yourself that ad free stuff and. And let's hear about the people who have done that. Jimmy, hit me with the list of the most wonderful goddamn people on the face of the earth who patiently will scroll through a minute 30 second AD. Hit me with them right fucking now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This week's executive producer, Gary Howard Terry stuck on to Rock A Cheered Up Bitch. Jordan Weaver, Jonathan Boykin, Liz with no last name, and Aaron Brains. Oh, boy, oh boy. All right, thank you all so much for what you guys do. Other producers this week. Peyton Meadows, Happy Hour checking in in Huntsville, Texas. I didn't even know there was one near the prison.

[James Petregallo]

Neither did I. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's where they have prison.

[James Petregallo]

Huntsville. Yeah, that's where they do the executions in Texas.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus Christ. Jesus and Janice, thank you all, truly. You guys are so great. Other producers this week, not Ya Mama's Vegan Cafe. Ashley Bailey, Jacqueline Gray, Bri Wade, Angie Pennington, Ducky4915, Beth with no last name. Isla Vanell, Johnny Tebow, Sandy Kelch, Andrew Culhane, Clay Grassman, Alana Klepeck, Charlotte Beatty, Emily Anderson, Gus Stamps, Stump Humper. All right, Sydney with no last name. Pepper with no last name. Tracy Katz, Bobby Throck, Morton, Erica Anderson, Allison Fernandez, Shamil Singh, Eric McMichael, Eric Michael Cowan. God damn it. That looks like. Never mind. Carly Turchan, Ben Goodrick, do you know him? James John with no last name. April Gonzalez, Peggy Johnson, Lindsay Drotus, Heather with no last name. Adam Taylor, Paul DeMarco. Sean Carlin. Jessica Norcker. Norcutt North. Cut North. Kerr. That can't be right. Pervy. Reed.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody. Damn it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Matt Funale. What is that? Funnel? That's all the vowels. He's got all of them. Sahar Zaharia. Oliveira. Oliveiro. Karen C. T.J. cunningham. Allison Wagner. Aaron with no last name. Rebecca with no last name. Abra Franco. Justin Fox. Andy W. Maria Becerra. Spencer Loomis. Amanda. Shira. Joe with no last name. Chelsea Roach. Hillary with no last name. Hillary G. Also probably the same person. Thank you. Hillary or Hillary. Donnie Doney. Donnie Morin. Morin. Donnie. Is it Donnie? It might be Donnie. Mary Claire Grigson. Colin Jones. America. Mercadante. My Christ. Kristen Woodruff. Danielle Ranke. MJ Andranko. Nico Meredith Bracken. Jennifer Christensen. Angela Faulkner. Emily Myers. Christina Wisner. Lonnie Loney. Lonnie Blair. Shane with no last name. Julie Calvadis. Julie Kovitis. I don't like that at all. Brina.

[James Petregallo]

I don't like your name at all. You sound like a disease. Thank you for your money.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thank you. Brianna Becker. Louis Lopez. Valerie Hilton. Joy with no last name. Justin with no last name. I don't like that at all. Andrew. Andrew Nagler. Ben loves Holly in Eltown. Good for you, Ben. Good for you, Holly. Atticus Banji. He could be anywhere. They could have done that in P Town.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jordan Kaiser. Liam Jones. Kathy Knudson. Jen S. Andrew Blunt. Nope, it's just Bunt. Eric Foley. Terrence Howell. Nope, that's Clark. Why did I say Terrence Howell? Who? The M. Jesse Barker. Esther with no last name. Stacy Peterson. Jordan Bennett. It's Jordan D. Bennett. I don't know if it's the same one.

[James Petregallo]

I hope you're enjoying England. If it's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If it's. If it's not.

[James Petregallo]

Wherever you're at, say hi to Simon for us.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Mackenzie with no last name. Katie Bumgardener. Helen Locare. Locker. Maybe Dano. Dano. Dano. Barney. Is that real? Dano. Dano. Right. You don't call somebody to know.

[James Petregallo]

Dano. Dano. Dano.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jacob B. Jim Best. Dean Goldberry. Lily F. Donna Royale or Royal. Whatever. Jesse L. Reed.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Clearly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jess Reed. 5380. Morgan Halliday. Ashimo Ashamo. I don't know. M. Scott with no last name. William George Mx. The letter D. Josh Januski. Cody Frampis. Teresa Foscolos. Jesus. Pamela Haved. Haved. Were you have a. Is it hav? I was behaved the one angry elf. That one angry elf. Nicolette Alexander. Lady Cataluna. Patrice. What is that? Doe Tree. I know that's Dotri because that is the name of a man on King of the Hill. Throat Punch. Katia. Katia. Katia.

[James Petregallo]

Katya.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Katya Cuevas. Brooke Rice. Kim Queen. Anne Quinon. V. Ricks. Danny. Danny. Danny. Jack. Paul Laposki. Marilyn Bagan. Savannah JN510. Suzanne Papiuski. Tania. Tanya. Tanya, Leah. What is that? Late Holy Lee. Hey, what is Lehigh Lay out of? Fucking Tanya. Your name's fucking confusing with your TN T A N, I A. Is that Tanya? There's a fucking Y in that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you got to figure that out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You got to figure the.

[James Petregallo]

Make it simpler for us.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shmia. I don't know. Christy Farina. Steph Stafford. Rick D. Rick D, like in the Morning. James. Diana. Chemo. What? Kerno? No, that is Chemo the cable God. Rob Holt. Colleen Rudolph. Angel Bird Song. That's nice. Shamor Key Show More Key. Greg Keller. Tanya. There's another Tanya with no Y. What in the motherfuck? David Poliam. It's not how you spell it. Geber Jeeber. Adam Heisner. Jacob Casper. Reverend Randy. Franklin Tyler. Matt. Kitty Salmons. Simon Sammons. Charlie Beutel. Butle. All right. Like that shit you used to.

[James Petregallo]

No, I think I might know that first.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Alexis Guerra. Steph with an F. Rachel Brown. Lori R. Misty Carrier. Kathy Smith. Meg C. Marta. This Dutchie likes the stories. The twisted stories of the twisted. I can't read my own writing. Casey Funnest. Back, Sean.

[James Petregallo]

I'll know what that is later.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Carl Winslow. Probably not, but possibly so. Rita Lambert. Amber Harris. Bill Hoyes. Hollywood. No last name. Jamie Johnson. Taylor Freed. Mike Hunger. Carl Hungus. Melanie Miller. Aaron Easter. Kara Hodges. Sandra Hux. Kendra Miller. Julie Roberts. Not Julie. Elizzy. Aliza. Alisa Corrigan. What is this? Hannah with no last name. We will survive. Okay. Melissa Shonley. Mike Williams. Kevin Swift. Robin Rinaldi. Melissa with no last name. Jane Gigante. I look, I think, wonderful person. Bella Holcomb. And your entire family. I'm not going to say a negative word.

[James Petregallo]

Eli.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ellie. Ellie Schmidtke. Dori Cook. Amai Johnston. Justin Pike. Lori King Godwin. Nope, that's Goodwin. Zachary Murphy. Jonathan Bob. Charlene Supa Supper. Jessica Dowding. Haley Thorndike. Brian Evans. Amber O'Daniels. Like Pappy's kid. Patty Wilcox. Lauren with no last name. Spelled just like Michaels. Brett Burns. Sarah Tursky. Alicia Seuss. Jocelyn Emerson. Alan Tripp. Aaron Hewlett. Kiki, Patty, Steph and Rod Ellerstein. Todd with no last name. Gordon Baird. Amir Cooks. Nope. Brooks Coleman, Jana. Jaina Kent, Deborah Kokika, Kakika, Colby Burns, Daniel Frederick, Karen Goodwin, Mackenzie Pasteur. Like Louie Brian with no last name. Scott Keha Siha Cha, Johnny Olearin, Chad Saint, Mike Swint. I'm giving it one swing and moving along. Mike Martin. No, it's Jenny. Ashley Bradley. Steph with no last name. Amanda lang, Josh Rosen. Ghost487, Sandra Bloom, Jessica Martin, Lori McLean, Jo Lynn James. Pay the Man 714 Rich Dolof, Wesley Morelli, Rebecca White. January with no last name. Tiffany with no last name. Shelly with no last name Becky French Butler. Sage with no last name. Anna Perrasquia. Seleska Chizasenga. Trevor Fletcher. Kathy Casa, Mark Mathias Mathis. Paula Berkmeyer, Michael Clem. Jessica Cagnilotti, Jessica Canoli. Matt Moon, Sonia James, Tina Embry. Sounds delicious. Matt with no last name. Heather Werther Snyder. Misha Milby, Chaka with no last name. And every one of our patrons. You guys are the best. Thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. You wonderful bastards. We hope you're enjoying all the material and all the stuff. We notice a lot of you have been going back and like listening from the beginning again. And thank you so much for doing that. Just everything you do for us. If you want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me. Murder.com has dropdown menus that take you anywhere you could possibly want to be. So keep coming back doing that. We'll keep coming back. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bye.