Small Town Murder - Episode Summary

Episode Title: “My Ugly Came Out – Selmer, Tennessee”
Podcast: Small Town Murder
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Date: November 27, 2025

Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmie explore Selmer, Tennessee, blending in-depth research, comedic banter, and sharp social observation as they dissect the infamous 2006 murder of Pastor Matthew Winkler. The case, involving a seemingly perfect small-town pastor’s family, bursts open with secrets of alleged abuse and financial disintegration, culminating in a national media storm—not to mention a shotgun blast that left the pastor dead and the community reeling. With their signature irreverence and storytelling skill, the hosts unravel both the facts and myths of the Winkler case, painting a vivid picture of a town whose real troubles run deeper than Rockabilly festivals and fried pie.

Selmer, Tennessee: Small Town, Big Secrets

(05:00 - 21:00)

• Location & Vibe: Southwest Tennessee, close to Memphis and Nashville, with a small population (4,421), a rundown real estate market, cheap home prices, and a pronounced Baptist presence.
• Notable History:
  • The 2007 “Cars for Kids” charity parade tragedy, where a dragster accident killed six children and injured dozens, lingering in the town’s trauma memory.
  • The 2025 F3 tornado that left five dead and millions in property damage.
  • Home of the infamous Sheriff Buford Pusser (“Walking Tall”).
• Town Review:
  “Selmer is a small, quiet town filled with so much history and kind residents... Famous for our Rockabilly Slug Burgers…” (10:57, James)
• Crime Stats:
  Property crime 50% above national average; violent crime nearly double the national average, mostly attributed to drugs and economic struggles.
• Community Atmosphere:
  Quirky festivals (Rockabilly Highway Revival, Fried Pie Festival), slow tech adoption, and plenty of Southern hospitality—unless you get on the wrong side of local law or weather.

Introducing the Winklers: Perfection—or Pretense?

(21:00 - 55:00)

• Matthew Winkler: Born in Texas (1974), preacher’s son and grandson, charismatic, athletic, destined for ministry, but shaped by a nomadic preacher-kid upbringing. (22:00–26:00)
• Mary Winkler (née Mary Carol Freeman):
  Born 1973, Knoxville, daughter of a teacher and a real estate agent/deacon—raised in a strict, devout Church of Christ home. Haunted by fatal childhood trauma (death of her disabled younger sister in an accident she blamed herself for), then thrust into “mom” role for five adopted siblings. Described as “both pretty and plain,” gentle, and extremely accommodating. (26:25–38:15)
  • Notable Quote:
    “She goes to school, blames herself. She’s clearly having some distress in school… you do not tell anybody outside the family this stuff.” (33:27, James)
• Courtship & Marriage:
  • Met at Freed Hardeman University, both from deeply religious backgrounds and minister families.
  • Dated only three months before engagement—a “long courting” by community standards.
  • Married at 22/21, immediately thrust into adult responsibilities, grinding poverty, and a whirlwind of new homes and churches.
  • Early hints of Matthew’s temper and control issues:
    “He just destroyed [the desk] with his bare hands… Had a complete freak out.” (42:43, James)

The Perfect Family’s Cracks: Abuse & Isolation

(55:00 - 1:20:00)

• Multiple Moves:
  As Matthew’s ministry moved to new churches, financial instability persisted, but their image in each new town remained “perfect.”
• Public Praise vs. Private Pain:
  • Community:
    “Ideal family next door... perfect couple. Maybe not so perfect, though.” (49:00–50:12, James)
  • Hints of Abuse:
    • Black eyes hidden under makeup explained away as “playing with the kids” or a softball injury.
    • Matthew allegedly chose what Mary ate, wore, and who she saw.
    • Estrangement from her family:
      “You have to accept that Mary will not be a part of your family…” (54:41, James quoting Mary's sister)
    • Neighbors witnessed her “cowering,” described her as quiet, isolated, “always looking at the floor.”
• Matthew’s Public Behavior:
  • Threatened to kill neighbor’s dog (“If you don’t keep that dog away from my house, I’ll kill it.”—60:17), police report filed.
  • Control and anger issues surfaced in public—alluding to much worse in private.
• Financial Trouble:
  • Mary got scammed (Nigerian check scheme), snowballing into bounced checks and hiding their dire financial situation from Matthew, escalating her desperation.

The Crime: From Domestic Dispute to Murder

(1:20:00 - 1:40:00)

• Events Leading Up:
  • Night before the murder: Matthew allegedly upset after an argument about money.
  • Early morning, March 22, 2006: After tending to their crying baby and Matthew allegedly kicking her out of bed, Mary retrieved the shotgun.
  • Matthew shot in the back while lying in bed—77 birdshot pellets, bled to death.
    • Notable Quote:
      “He says, ‘Why?’ She says, ‘I’m sorry. I love you.’ And then he died.” (103:11, James)
  • She unplugged the phone and fled with their three daughters, taking the shotgun.

Search & Capture: The Missing Winkler Girls

(1:40:00 - 1:50:00)

• Community Panic:
  • Amber Alert issued, with the assumption Mary and the girls had been abducted or murdered.
• Found Alive:
  • Mary and the girls located in Alabama, alive and well. Mary oddly calm, emotionless, telling police she wanted the girls to “have a happy day before bad days came.” (87:36, James)
  • Shotgun found in the minivan trunk.

Interrogation & Motive: “My Ugly Came Out”

(1:50:00 - 2:01:00)

• Initial Interrogation:
  • Mary silent, flat affect: “No comment.” (90:28)
  • Focused solely on her children’s care, struggling to explain why she shot her husband.
  • Notable Moment:
    “My ugly came out.” (101:01, Mary Winkler)
• Confession Details:
  • Described a buildup of years of criticism, isolation, and being “nailed to the ground” by Matthew’s rules and temper.
  • Claimed the shooting was not premeditated; said she didn’t “plan” to kill him.
  • Admitted to changing her story several times, unable or unwilling to give rational explanation.

The Trial: Sainthood, Scandal, & Sympathy

(2:01:00 - 2:50:00)

• Charges & Defense:
  • Initially charged with first degree murder; defense focused on years of abuse (“verbal, emotional, physical, sexual”) and claimed the shooting was either an accident or occurred during an emotional snap.
• Prosecution’s Case:
  • Asserted calculated actions (getting and racking the shotgun, unplugging the phone, fleeing with the kids and killing weapon) in the face of financial ruin and imminent exposure for bounced checks.
  • Emphasized there was “no good reason” for the killing.
• Defense’s Case:
  • Outlined a decade of escalating control and mistreatment.
  • Brought to court: Afro wig and 8-inch stripper heels (“Matthew wanted me to wear them to dress up... for sex.”), which stunned the jury. (144:25)
  • Portrayed Mary as a battered woman who cracked.
• Key Testimonies:
  • Mary’s Daughter (Patricia, 9):
    “Did he ever hurt your mother? No, sir...Daddy’s hurt. We’re leaving.” (133:12)
  • Mary’s Testimony:
    Soft, downcast, claimed sexual abuse, fear, and submission but insisted she “didn’t pull the trigger”—the gun just “went off.”
    • Notable Exchange:
      Prosecutor: “Did you intentionally kill your husband?”
      Mary: “No, sir.”
      (147:12)
• Prosecution’s Closing:
  “The defendant put a 12 gauge shotgun to the back of a sleeping man... That is not self-defense. That is first degree murder.” (130:40, Freeland)
• Defense’s Closing:
  “Matthew Winkler couldn’t practice what he preached… bullies pick on people smaller than them.” (148:49, Farisi)

Verdict & Aftermath: Justice or a Slap on the Wrist?

(2:50:00 - 3:20:00)

• Verdict:
  Guilty of voluntary manslaughter (not first or second-degree murder).
  “People are getting away with murder today...” – Jury Foreman Bill Berry (154:08)
• Sentence:
  • Three years total, of which Mary spends just one week in jail, with 60 days in a mental health facility and the rest on probation.
  • Public reaction was sharply divided: some saw it as appropriate for a battered woman, others as outrageously lenient.
    • Notable Quote:
      “Had it been the other way around, Mary Winkler’s husband would have received a first degree murder verdict.” (Tennesseean letters)
• Custody Battle:
  • After a year-long court case, Mary regains full custody of her daughters in August 2008, despite protests from the Winkler family.

Media, Oprah, and Legacy

(3:20:00 - 3:40:00)

• Fame & Fallout:
  • Mary appeared on Oprah in 2007, offering an eerily flat, sometimes contradictory retelling of events.
    • Notable Moment:
      Oprah: “Why the shotgun?”
      Mary: “I can’t tell you an actual memory of a thought, but today when I think back, it’s just being so afraid.” (172:25, Oprah interview)
  • The case becomes a fixture for true crime analysis of battered woman’s defense, as well as tabloid fodder.
• Life After:
  • Little public presence since 2010, when Mary was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
  • Mary and her daughters live quietly near McMinnville, staying out of the spotlight.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• About Small Town Tennessee:
  “It’s a big, big wide state. People don’t realize it’s a big fucker.” (05:28, Jimmie)
• On Domestic Control:
  “Stop eating that and put this on—is it gonna go over big? I don’t think.” (53:05, James)
• On Town Tragedy:
  “Until the Cars for Kids accident, this was the biggest thing that ever happened here.” (180:16, James)
• Episode’s Namesake:
  “So my ugly came out.” (101:01, Mary Winkler’s confession)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:00 – Town background, history, quirky facts
• 22:00 – Winklers’ early life and marriage, red flags emerge
• 42:00 – Early examples of Matthew’s temper and Mary’s isolation
• 54:00 – Community perception versus hinted abuse
• 1:03:00 – Matthew’s public outburst (dog threat)
• 1:21:00 – The murder: timeline and physical evidence
• 1:40:00 – Search for Mary and the girls, discovery in Alabama
• 1:50:00 – Interrogation, confession, “My ugly came out”
• 2:01:00 – Charges, bond, public sentiment
• 2:50:00 – The trial: testimony, evidence, defense/prosecution strategy
• 3:20:00 – Verdict, aftermath, custody of the Winkler girls
• 3:35:00 – Oprah interview, Mary’s afterlife, enduring mysteries

Final Thoughts

The hosts close by reflecting on what little clarity exists, the murkiness of private abuse claims, and the communal trauma left by a grimly unforgettable case. Whether Mary committed an act of desperate self-preservation, cold calculation, or something in between remains unresolved, leaving listeners to question how much small towns—or any towns—ever really know about the darkness behind closed doors.

For more:

• Listen for deeper comedic tangents, true-crime context, and listener shoutouts throughout the episode.
• Support the show at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com