One Deadly Twist - St. Albans, Vermont

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder – "One Deadly Twist – St. Albans, Vermont"

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman

Release Date: April 17, 2026

Setting: St. Albans, Vermont

---

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, comedians James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman take listeners to St. Albans, Vermont, for a story that twists unexpectedly from small-town quirks and relatable relationship woes into a random and brutal murder in broad daylight. Through their signature blend of detailed true-crime storytelling and sharp comedic commentary, the hosts dissect the events leading up to, through, and following a senseless killing that shocks even seasoned fans of bizarre crime tales.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. About St. Albans, Vermont (03:59–14:12)

• Town Geography & History
  • St. Albans is divided into “town” and “city,” the latter being a 'nickel' in the middle of the 'dollar' that is the town. (05:03)
  • Railroad City of Vermont; site of the northernmost Civil War engagement, the St. Albans raid.
  • Noted for maple syrup, butter, cheese, Victorian houses, and a now-defunct semi-pro soccer team.
• Town Reviews
  • Mixed reviews — “A very quite [quiet] town… well known for maple syrup”; apparent drug issues and need for larger police presence.
    • “Drug deals take place out in the open with little discretion.” (09:40, James)
  • Host comedic riff on local complaints, particularly one about “the all-caps worst school ever,” parking drama, and school drop-off chaos. (10:10–11:10)
• Events & Attractions
  • Vermont Maple Festival, chainsaw art, poetry contest about maple syrup, and quirky local performers (“Rockin Ron, the Friendly Pirate”, and fire-eating, juggling Jason Tardy Productions). (11:47–14:12)
  • Commentary: “Who the fuck is judging [the syrup poetry]?” — James (11:56)

---

2. Case Introduction: Matthew Webster’s Downward Spiral (14:24–17:25)

• Who is Matt Webster?
  • Born 1983, lifelong resident, history of mental illness, chronic drug and alcohol issues.
  • “He abused prescription medication including Oxycodone and Methadone. Also Klonopin…” (16:11, James)
  • Notably self-destructive but, the hosts riff, still manages to have a wife and a girlfriend — “This guy’s getting laid. If you can’t find a woman, don’t blame women. This guy’s getting laid.” (21:00, James)
• Personal Struggles
  • Matt’s wife, Danielle, reports a family history of suicidality, frequent threats, and dangerous behaviors (leaving guns out, unstable mental state).
  • Past car accident, minor criminal record.

---

3. Relationship Drama Escalates (20:24–25:00)

• The Affair
  • Matt is caught up in a year-long affair; his wife Danielle knows about it for nine months.
  • “He had made assurances to Danielle that he would end his relationship…but guess what? He didn’t.” (21:44, James)
• Day of the Incident (Sept 25, 2013)
  • Danielle discovers Matt is again visiting his girlfriend. She confronts him by phone and then in person.
  • Heated exchanges, multiple car relocations to avoid face-to-face confrontations.
• Comic Comparison
  • “Trying to break up with one woman while another yells at you and calls you on the phone…would be a horrible vice grip…but it’s 100% his fault.” (24:09, James)

---

4. Road Rage and Tragedy (32:21–44:03)

Setting:

• A fight at a gas station, Matt flees, Danielle follows.
• Matt, in a fragile, suicidal state, races off, runs a red light (with wife in hot pursuit), nearly causing a collision.

The Victim:

• Anna Alger
  • “They went to the same high school…they didn’t know each other…She’s a nurse’s aide, lives locally, and a mother.” (34:02–34:32, James)
  • Anna, driving with her fiancé, is almost hit by Matt at the intersection.

The Incident (Main Event: ~36:42–41:58)

• Anna, enraged, follows Matt and blocks him at the side of the road (in front of Domino’s Pizza).
• She confronts him, yelling:
  • Quote: “What kind of a piece of shit do you think you are?” — Anna Alger (38:00)
  • Anna and Matt are a mere 6 feet apart.
• Matt, in a mental crisis, empties his 9mm — 11 shots — into Anna, killing her instantly (“hit…seven or eight times in the head and neck.” (40:08, James))
  • “He just raises his pistol and fires eleven shots into her face.” (38:59, James)
• Attempts to shoot Anna’s fiancé, gun jams.
• Danielle arrives, disarms Matt as he attempts to shoot himself (gun also jams).
• Anna’s fiancé calls for help, Anna is already dead.
  • “She’s been shot seven or eight times in the head and neck. This is wild.” (40:11, James)

---

5. Aftermath: Arrest & Interrogation (47:08–67:40)

• Immediate Aftermath:
  • Matt is arrested at the scene (“He willingly emptied out his pockets and laid there on the ground and let them arrest him. He was screaming ‘I’m sorry...’” (43:13, James))
  • Multiple witnesses at Domino’s, Domino’s worker, and a passerby corroborate the chaos.
• Police Interrogation
  • Matt confesses immediately (“I was going to kill myself…” [47:37]) but is emotional, incoherent, and remorseful.
  • Notable comedic moment as Matt, in his chaos, asks the detective:
    • Quote: “Are you a doctor?” — Matt (48:02)
    • “Yes, that's me. I'm an armed doctor, and I'm here to talk to you.” — James (48:14)
  • Matt cycles through remorse (“I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry…” (48:49–50:01)), confusion, and insists “I never meant to hurt anybody.” (Assorted, ~51:00)
• Narrative Details
  • Matt blames lack of medication, drug withdrawal, and his own “terrible shot” for the events.
  • Explains intent was suicide; felt “charged” when Anna approached.

---

6. Trial and Sentencing (69:01–78:27)

Legal Arguments:

• Defense Tactics:
  • Tried to argue mental impairment, momentary crisis, and potential self-defense due to “charging” confrontation.
  • Clinical psychologist for defense: Matt was impaired, suicidal, not thinking rationally.
• Prosecution:
  • Points out Matt’s deliberate actions (firing 11 times, reloading), lack of prior connection, and total randomness of the murder.
  • Court underscores that Anna’s actions were normal, not provocative — “She approached you, but she didn’t provoke you. She had no idea what she was walking into…You alone decided how this would end.” — Judge (76:44)
• Memorable Line:
  • “You, sir, may fuck off. 40 years to life.” — Judge (76:44, James retelling verdict)

Victim Impact:

• Anna’s fiancé and daughter provide emotional statements:
  • “When Anna died, a piece of me did, too.” — Patrick, fiancé (75:41)
  • “Now that you’ve shot my mom, we can’t do the things we said we were going to do…” — Anna’s daughter, age 11 (75:52)

Sentence & Aftermath:

• Matt Webster: Found guilty of second-degree murder, sentenced to 40 years to life.
• All appeals denied. Anna’s family expresses relief at conviction.
• Matt’s remorse is persistent but, as the hosts note, cannot undo the devastation.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “What kind of a piece of shit do you think you are?” — Anna Alger confronts Matt. (38:00)
• “She was ready to give the mayor an earful about that shit. It’s a goddamn memorial for a dead woman.” — James, recounting Anna’s grandmother on a memorial controversy. (69:10)
• “You, sir, may fuck off.” — Judge, as recounted by James in the verdict. (76:44)
• Host Riff: Comparing Matt’s situation with “a man with every problem in the world, and there’s more than one chick willing to fuck him…” and what this means for listeners struggling in the dating world. (21:00)

---

Structure & Timestamps

| Section | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Intro, Town Rundown | 01:15–14:12 | | Case Introduction: Who is Matt Webster | 14:24–17:25 | | Relationship Drama | 20:24–25:00 | | Road Rage Incident / Killing | 32:21–44:03 | | Witness Reactions, Arrest, Interrogation | 47:08–67:40 | | Trial & Sentencing | 69:01–78:27 | | Host Reflections/Closing | 79:30–82:00 |

---

Tone & Style

True to the Small Town Murder formula, the episode weaves thorough research with biting wit and empathy for victims. The hosts maintain a comedic, conversational tone—even in discussing tragedy—but are also clear about where responsibility lies and condemn senseless violence and poor life choices.

---

In Conclusion

This episode stands out for its unexpected turn—a small-town marital drama erupts into random public murder, all unfolding in real time amid witnesses, with a deeply troubled perpetrator and an innocent, outspoken victim. James and Jimmie’s commentary is equal parts dark, irreverent, and humane: they pull no punches for Matt, mourn Anna authentically, and offer biting observations about fate, poor choices, and human unpredictability in small-town America.

For fans and new listeners alike, this is Small Town Murder at its most unpredictable and compelling.

Transcript

[Mackenzie]

My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about 10, $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[James Petregallo]

GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's

[Ad Voice]

gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

[James Petregallo]

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yay and choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you, folks so much for joining us on another crazy, wild adventure known as roller coaster. Known as Small Town Murder Express. And this one, this episode, oh, man, this thing, you're going along on the coaster and it's just gonna take a hard turn on you where you're like, where did that come from? It's a crazy episode. Can't wait to get into it. Wild stuff. So all aboard the murder train leaving the station. Let's get into this here. Thank you so much for joining us. Definitely. Before we start, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows. Also your merchandise, too. Everything from skateboards to shower curtains there. But get your tickets for live shows. Next live shows with tickets available here May 2nd in Denver. Get those before they're gone because they're almost gone. And then May 30th in Royal Oak, Michigan, those are really almost gone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

There's under 100 tickets left, so definitely get your tickets for that one, come out and see us. And then after that, in September, we're in Milwaukee and Minneapolis. We're in Dallas, San Jose and Sacramento in October. And then November, Tarrytown in Boston. So come out and see us and come to a live show because it's not a lecture, it's a comedy show. We have pictures and jokes and you're going to leave holding your side. So definitely do that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Come out.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. Shout out and givememurder.com also get patreon. For the love of God, get patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports which is the name of our other show that you should listen to, by the way, because it's very funny and also your stupid opinions you need to check out. That's where all the good stuff is. Well, this is all good stuff, but that's where more good stuff is. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get everything we put out. As soon as you subscribe. You get hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Over 300. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get it all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

This week, no different this week for crime and sports. We're going to talk about this crazy. It was supposed to be a good thing. It was in California, this program for inner city kids to help them do sports and all this. And it turned into exactly what you're gonna imagine. It turned into a complete mess and kind of a weird cult of strangeness. It's real weird stuff. Then for small town murder, Corey Richens, Part 2, the Utah Mother who murdered her husband, then wrote a book about grieving for her kids about it, which is. And that's the least egregious thing she did. It's crazy. All the stuff she did.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Kind of a bad mom, bad everything.

[James Petregallo]

Just a awful. Patreon.com crimeinsports in addition to that, you also get everything we put out. Crime in sports, your stupid opinions, and small town murder. All ad free with your Patreon. No ads. And then on top of that, you get a shout out at the end of the regular show where Jimmy will mispronounce your name even though, believe me, he'd love to get it correct. Trust me, he takes great pride in it when he does nail one. So that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs. There we go. Arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up. Give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, let's do it. We're going to Vermont this week. We were in New Hampshire for the Express last week. So we're sticking up in the. The foresty region over here in the maple syrup region of America here. This is St. Albans, VT. A L B A N S. Which made it extremely confusing because There is a St. Albans the town. And then there's St. Albans City, they call it, which is just picture if you had a dollar bill. That's St. Albans town. Okay, now picture if you put a nickel in the middle of the dollar bill, that would be St. Albans city. Perfect. So it's very confusing. And I had to find out the address of where this happened to find out which part of St. Albans it was in. It's a mess. So it was a really hard thing to do here. This is in northwestern Vermont. It's all up by Canada. It's up there about an hour and a half to Montreal. So pretty close to the road.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, it's right there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, right there. About a half hour to Burlington, Vermont. And about two and a half hours to our last Vermont episode, which was Grafton, Vermont, episode 642, exactly 50 episodes ago. And that was called the murder blame game. That was when these guys killed someone and then showed back up at the scene of the crime to do something else with the body. And there was already police there and already a crime scene set up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Perfect.

[James Petregallo]

And then they had to blame each other because they didn't know what to do. That was a fun one. This is in Franklin county. Area code 8, 02. Population here, 6866. And I think that's in all of the St. Albans town and city. I think that's all together. Median household income here is low. Normally. Rest of the country it's about 69,000 here, $49,063. Not great. That is. That's scraping nothing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Costs shit up there though.

[James Petregallo]

Well, median home costs 298,100 bucks. So what? Yeah, that's a rough living. That's tough. That's a rough going there. Nickname of this town, the railroad city of Vermont. Make of that what it is. We'll talk about where that came from. A little bit of history. It was named after St. Albans, England, which is in Hertfordshire. Hertfordshire. It was first settled during the Revolution by Jesse Weldon. The war delayed further settlement. But then after the Revolutionary War, people started showing up from around New England because they had rich soil, good for cultivation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Cold as fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Cold as fuck. Also they raised cattle, horses and sheep. A lot of butter and cheese came out of this area.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Tons of butter and cheese. I know Vermont still does a lot of cheese.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, they love cheese. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Vermont still. They love their cheese. Yeah. St. Albans also became known as the rail city because it was home to a major depot, operations center and a repair shop for Vermont and Canada. Railroads. This was kind of like a hub for them. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And the repairs, that's.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. The northernmost battle of the Civil War was here. Well engagement. It wasn't a full on battle but it was known as the St. Albans raid. And it was in 1864. In 1902 they finally incorporated the city of St. Albans which is two square miles inside of the town of St. Albans. Today it's a big. People like to go there to see the old school houses. They have Victorian and craftsman houses there and all that kind of thing. So it's a big deal. And a lot of trains still pass through here. Also home was for a minute here home to the Vermont Voltage.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

Which was a semi professional men's soccer team.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A soccer team.

[James Petregallo]

Many.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All the way up there.

[James Petregallo]

All the way up there. They folded in 2014, unsurprisingly. So that said, reviews of this town. We've never been here. We know nothing about it. So let's check it out. It only has 3.2 stars on niche. That's not great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The whole place.

[James Petregallo]

The whole place. And there's zero five star reviews which is really. Yeah, people like it, but not that much.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They like it. Nobody loves it.

[James Petregallo]

It's just gonna be friends though. I like you, but not that way. Here's four stars. Overall. A very quite town. I assume they mean quiet, quiet quite town. Well known for maple syrup. No shit. Not a whole lot to do unless you're willing to drive to the bigger cities like Burlington where all the action goes on. The trees and mountains are beautiful in the fall. Great snowboarding and skiing locations. I believe that as you would imagine, three stars. It needs a lot of work. They're judging it like it's like an 84 Toyota Celica. They're like, I mean yeah, it's a good price but it needs a lot of work.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A.C. blows warm.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it blows warm. Yeah, it's got a problem there in the wheel well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It needs a recharge but the compressor doesn't take the new gas.

[James Petregallo]

It's not doing it. I believe the city and town need a bigger police force with a greater presence to help reduce the drug related crime in the area. Yeah, they have a. It's maple syrup flavored. Fentanyl is a big deal here. They really will fuck shit up. Due to a lack of police presence. Drug deals take place out in the open with little discretion. There's no cops waving bags of powder around and the people involved can be very threatening to those around. Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a drug Dealer.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Drug dealers. Drug users. Here's one star. St. Albans City school is the all caps. Worst school ever. Three exclamation points. Now you'd imagine this is probably from like an eighth grader.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Or something. No, this is an adult. Who wrote that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a parent.

[James Petregallo]

A parent. My children were bullied. My child with a learning disability was ignored. Parents illegally parked in the no parking zones and entered the building unsafely through the classroom emergency exit doors. For years. For years, parents illegally parked in the front of the no parking zones, blocking the entire road, causing illegal wrong way driving, forcing homeowners off the road into other homeowners lawns. Okay, they're making it sound like it's like a police chase from a 70s. Like the blues Brothers police chase. This is ridiculous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every day, 7:30 to 8 is bedlam.

[James Petregallo]

Just people on the lawns. People diving out of their own lawn chairs to get out of the way of cars that are barreling at them from the street. Wow, this is crazy. So they're driving onto lawns. So to avoid being struck by aggressive wrong way drivers.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They don't have a resource officer at the school directing traffic.

[James Petregallo]

I'm gonna go just by the histrionics of the worst school ever. I think this person is just. I think they're a little much. They're the person yelling at people for where they park. And it's like, shut up. Just shut up and get your kid and go home. Yeah, worry about you and your kid. Yeah, worry about your kid being bullied and your kid with a learning disability ignored because you were done with that in the first two sentences. And on to all the parking violations, the egregious parking that goes. Things to do. The Vermont Maple Festival takes place here. I wonder how many of those there are. A new event this year, the poetry contest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, contest.

[James Petregallo]

If you write poetry about maple syrup. This is the festival thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who the fuck is judging that?

[James Petregallo]

Who knows? There's a best maple menu contest. A creative chainsaw art exhibit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I like that.

[James Petregallo]

A pancake breakfast. That seems like it goes without saying. A sappy art show. It's called like SAP Maple SAP. A kid's entertainment zone, which we'll talk about. Opening ceremonies, information booth, Main street stage, which we'll get to. Maple beverage tasting, St. Albans Museum, the Fiddler's Variety Show. A maple cooking contest. A maple syrup contestant.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But isn't the cooking contest.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, this is who makes the best maple syrup. This is other shit. Making maple flavored things. It's got a picture of a Cake up there. The Maple Ambassador contest. Wow Contest contest. And the youth Talent Show. All right, for entertainment. This is the kids entertainment. Here we have Rockin Ron, the Friendly Pirate.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh boy, get away from my kids.

[James Petregallo]

Who looks like the Wiggles when they do that shit. That's back in the day. And then Pipsqueak the Clown in Taylor Park. This looks to be a middle aged woman who's a clown for whatever that's worth. And also Jason Tardy Productions.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if he's a little late or a little slow, but he's something here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Showing up 10 minutes late.

[James Petregallo]

Says he's a multifaceted performer who uses his strength. He juggles three ten pound bowling balls. Intelligence. Skipped a year of high school and was valedictorian and endurance 2 time 100 mile ultra marathon finisher. And skill. He has no social life, so he practices a lot to create a crazy high energy comedy and juggling show like you've never seen before. Yeah, you know, annoying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Smarter than your average sophomore though. James.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You know he wears one of those headset Bobby Brown deals too while he does it and he makes stupid jokes. Yeah, the asshole microphone. This hilarious show includes innovative choreographed juggling to upbeat music, fitting his body through a tennis racket, balancing a ladder on his face, standing on a yoga ball. And if you trust him enough, fire eating and fire breathing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

I would like to see him eat fire for real.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I trust him to eat it. I'm not eating it, so what the fuck do I gotta trust him for?

[James Petregallo]

Stick it all the way down. I don't care.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Go nuts, fucker. Drink a lot of gas first.

[James Petregallo]

Make sure you gotta really coat the esophagus with gas before this will work, right? That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? All right. This is a crazy, crazy, crazy story that will end up not at all where you think it's gonna end up. Uh oh, it's one of those weird ones that's just only small town Murder Express here. Okay, this, we have to start in 2013, so not very long ago. I mean everything's basically the same. You have the same phone in your pocket, different operating system, you're on Instagram, you're on Facebook. It's just maybe TikTok doesn't exist other than that. Same world. Matthew Webster, let's talk about, goes by Matt, Old Matt Webster. Matty Webb. Webb. He's born August 7, 1983. Now. Yeah, pretty young at this point. He's 30 years old in 2013. Long history of mental health and drug problems, which is a bad combination.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, you can't. No, you can't treat that with that.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of times people have mental health problems, they self medicate and then that just makes it worse. You have exacerbated.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can't have schizophrenia with cocaine.

[James Petregallo]

No, it doesn't work. It just makes it worse, for Christ's sake. On a lot of things. Now he's got a wife as of 2013, named Danielle, and she's a big part of this. We'll talk about. And they live in Swanton, which is about 15 minutes outside of St. Albans. Okay. Now, he's got some issues. He's being treated for depression, Matt is. And chronic anxiety. Among, as his wife put it in a court filing, quote, so many other things.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So many other things.

[James Petregallo]

So many. Those are just tip of the iceberg. But he's got a lot below the surface of the water here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Those are the two big ones that most people are treated for. He's got a lot more.

[James Petregallo]

He's got a lot more. He abused prescription medication including oxycodone and methadone. Also Klonopin, which he also gets as well, which is anxiety. Anxiety medication. And the methadone's gotta be for an opiate addiction there. And then oxycodone is for, you know, quote, to continue that, but it's just gonna basically continue. Yeah, and that's the problem. What I hear a lot always is methadone. Methadone's one of those things where it's like, it's to manage for the most part. Like if someone's a junkie and they're about to die and they're in the streets and they're shooting up all the time and their veins are fucking rotted out and all that. You put that person on methadone because they're never gonna get off the methadone, probably, but they're gonna be better than

[Jimmy Wisman]

sleeping in an alley, standing up on the bus. Yeah, any of those.

[James Petregallo]

But for most people, it just kind of keeps. Lets them kind of stabilize so they can kind of get their shit together to make another run at being a junkie is the problem. It's a. A tough thing. And most people on methadone, too, tend to chip on the side. Yeah, they'll get their methadone, but then they get pills, they get heroin, they chip on the side. They do a little bit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's how I think there's another one that's like that. That's just a dissolvable that goes under your tongue and it kinda. It's a similar thing. But yeah, I mean, a lot of the guys that are on that shit are still doing it.

[James Petregallo]

They definitely chip. Now he snorts his pills also, which will make him, you know, shows he's a little more into him. His wife Danielle also said that he deals with pancreatitis, chronic anxiety, high blood pressure as well, and said that her husband's family members. Matt's family members have a history of suicide attempts and that Matt has talked about committing suicide and has, quote, gotten prepared for it, as he put it. So that's what's going on here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When he got prepared for it, did he financially get prepared for it or just in his head he's just ready for.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, mentally knowing that this is going to go down at some point. Now, Matt's wife said he would leave his guns out and research ways to commit suicide online. And he did that for years. But it's been a few years since that issue came up. In terms of 2013, he hadn't really brought up suicide in a while. He hasn't really been that suicidal. But years before, he was perfectly unwell.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Gun owner.

[James Petregallo]

Nice, perfect guns. And he'd lay him out, which is perfect here. Yeah. And also he's on a bunch of drugs, which is what I really want people to have as many guns as possible while they're fucked up and paranoid and have anxiety, excellent depression and that's rough. He's gonna hurt himself now. 2012, there was an incident. A Vermont State Police person here accused Matt of negligent operation following a car wreck in Swanton. He tried to pass a line of three cars and overtook two of them, but then crashed into the third. Yeah, not good. No one was injured. And he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor careless and negligent operation and was sentenced to serve, this is a deterrent, two to three days in jail with a recommendation that he would be on a work crew for those two to three days. Anyway.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I hate those roads where there' there's like several cars and you gotta pass them and you gotta pass all of them because there's not just. You can't just one at a time. You gotta get them all. You gotta have a long gap of nobody coming the other way. That is horrifying.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that sucks. It's horrifying. Yeah. This guy, he clipped the third car he was trying to pass, apparently.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Was there a car coming? We don't know.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know that. No, I don't know that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just got in a little early.

[James Petregallo]

They didn't draw up a schematic for me, unfortunately. I wish they did. Hey, everybody out there. Police forces, people like that. Draw up a schematic for me. It would help these cases a lot. You could really get.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let me know specifically how much time he had before he got across that third one.

[James Petregallo]

If you could just start sending that shit directly to me also, that would be great. Just do research at. Shut up and give me the address and just send it to the research directly and we'll be okay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll give you his number.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. If you need it privately, no problem. Yeah. So September 25, 2013. He just turned 30, and things are coming to a head with Danielle. Matt and Danielle are having some problems,

[Jimmy Wisman]

and it's not good at home.

[James Petregallo]

Well, it's not good at home. Yeah. Apparently the problem is he's been cheating for the last year with a woman. It's a man's world, and she's pissed off about it. Yeah. This guy is snorting pills. He's got every problem in the world. His pancreas is rotten out, and there's more than one chick willing to fuck him. Isn't that amazing?

[Jimmy Wisman]

He loses count of cars at three.

[James Petregallo]

James, we say it all the time, and we need to reiterate it. If you're a guy out there and you can't find a woman, don't get mad at them. It's not their fault. This guy's getting laid. This guy's getting laid. That means you have no game because this guy's getting laid. You should be too high.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Something's not right. You got to recalibrate.

[James Petregallo]

At some point. You should be able to go, hey, I don't snort pills. And some chick will be like, all right, well, that's a plus. My last boyfriend snorted pills. Let's talk about it. So this. I guess he's been having an affair for about a year, and Danielle has been aware of the affair for about nine months, which seems very dangerous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What's going on there?

[James Petregallo]

He had made assurances to Danielle that he would end his relationship with the other woman. But guess what? He didn't. He didn't do it. He said, it's over. It's over. But then she'd catch him and catch him again. Now, today, on September 25, 2013, a fight begins with Danielle during a telephone call that Matt made to Danielle as he was driving to meet the other woman. Now she knows where he's going. He's saying he's going to meet her. To end it forever. This is it. It's over right now. So this is where I'm going. And it's going to be over after this. Now they're fighting while he's doing this, while he's driving there. So he went to this woman's apartment, and Matt picks her up and drives her to a parking area nearby that they could talk not in the apartment, but away from there a little. Because he wanted to get out of sight because Danielle was threatening to come to this woman's apartment and talk to her herself.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

So he said we need to drive away from the apartment to a spot of privacy over here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Did you say they have kids?

[James Petregallo]

I'm not. I can find no kids that they have. Possibly. But let's hope not. Let's hope there's no kids waiting at home while all this is going on, because this is ridiculous. So anyway, while he's talking to his paramour here and ending it, ostensibly ending it, his wife is calling him several times. She just keeps calling on the cell phone, blowing up the phone, yelling at him and threatening, basically, what's taking so long? You should have told her, bitch, you're dumped. And then dropped her ass back off and kicked her out of your truck cab.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She shouldn't even gotten in your truck.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So she's yelling at him and she's threatening to, quote, kick the other woman's ass. I'll kick her. Fuck. I'll come over there and kick her goddamn ass and show her what's up. Kick his ass. That's the problem.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got the wrong ass, lady.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's the fucking problem. You're mad at the wrong person. So eventually, after this goes on and he ends it with her, and now he's ending it with her, which he has made this bed to lie in. Boy, oh, boy, he's made the bed. I mean, there's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a lumpy one.

[James Petregallo]

He has caused all this, but at this moment in time, I don't. I feel for him. Not I feel for him, but I wouldn't want to be him. Put it that way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There it is.

[James Petregallo]

That's. I don't envy him. That's what it is to be trying to break up with one woman while another yells at you and calls you on the phone all the time would be a horrible vice grip to be put in. But it's 100% his fault. Yeah, and they're not wrong.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He climbed in it with shoes full of gravel and took them off. Why?

[James Petregallo]

Did you see that? He ate A whole sleeve of Ritz in here. And now he's wondering why he's itchy. And it's like, listen, cat, you know, brother, you are going to be itchy for a while.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You let the cats piss in your bed, bud.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's going to be wet and stinky. So he eventually drops the other woman off at her apartment. As he does this, he noticed that Danielle is parked nearby.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's here.

[James Petregallo]

She has come to the apartment and is parked nearby. Now, I don't know if she was parking to see if they were gonna give a kiss goodbye or whatever the fuck, but she does it now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And he noticed.

[James Petregallo]

He sees her there. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, he sees her for sure. And they leave the apartment. Now he's in one car, she's in another. Danielle's behind him. And they pull into a gas station on Main street in St. Albans to hash this out. Okay? So they pull in, they get out. She says she's angry, she's pissed off at him, he's an asshole. And she's sick of this whole situation, which she absolutely should. She should have dumped him. He's a drug addict. Fucking. You know, he's having problems and he's having affairs. It's like, it's one thing, stand by your partner, they're having some problems, but then once they start fucking around, you go, see you later. Don't have to deal with that anymore. Have fun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Serial cheating is one thing, but he's holding a whole ass relationship.

[James Petregallo]

He's got a whole relationship going. Yeah. He's got a second thing happening. This isn't just he went out to a bar one night when he was on the road during a sales conference and banged some chick from Chattanooga. That's not what's going on here. This is a totally different story.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And she got out of the car to tell him that she's angry. He should have known that by the fact that she's fucking here that she's at the place.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. With both hands on the wheel, with her elbows locked. This is the stance of a pissed off woman.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right here and present.

[James Petregallo]

She's here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

So I love how the court documents put it during this conversation. Conversation is a very conversation confrontation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What's the difference?

[James Petregallo]

I really love sometimes how court documents be put things. They're so just like plain language and frank. It's very funny. During their conversation, she apparently took off her wedding rings as she does about once a month during our death. She takes off her rings. I'm done with this. Throws them at Him. He picks them up, she puts them back on later. Now, she wanted to continue this again from the court documents. Although his wife wanted to continue talking, Matthew wanted to go to his father's house. Let's read between the lines on that one. She wanted to keep yelling at him and he said, I don't want to hear it anymore.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She wanted to keep talking at an elevated volume without.

[James Petregallo]

Outside the gas station. Yeah, right near pump four. This is a mess.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Without interruption.

[James Petregallo]

Yup. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to buy your meats, all your proteins with good chop. Goodchop.com Ah, see, now this is in our wheelhouse. This is what we love. I love this good chop. I love it. I love their strip steaks. I love the. Oh my God. I love their salmon tonight. Oh, their salmon is so good. And their pork chops are amazing. This is what you want. This is the delicious stuff that's gonna come right to your house and make you feel good about it. Good Shop delivers high quality American meat and seafood straight to your door, vacuum sealed and frozen at peak freshness. Your freezer stays stocked, you cook when you want, and you never have to gamble on that dicey grocery store meat section again because you never know what you're getting there. You know exactly what you're getting with Good Chop, though. And unlike many other companies, Good Shop sources its meat and seafood exclusively from American farms and fisheries. By choosing Good Shop, you support local family farms and independent ranchers right here in the U.S. customize your box from over 100 menu items, including USDA Choice and Prime steaks, 100% grass fed beef, wild caught seafood, organic chicken, responsibly raised pork, and so much more. I gotta try their chicken too. It's the one thing I haven't tried of theirs. I've tried everything else. And Good Shop, this is the thing. They're confident you're gonna love this stuff. And how confident are they? Well, Good Shop sources only the good stuff, which is why they feel confident about their 100% money back guarantee. Here it is. It's very complicated. Everybody get ready to write down the small print. Love Good chop or you get your money back. That's it. Pretty easy, pretty simple. So go to goodchop.com podcast and use the code 50 Small Town Murder to get $50 off plus free shipping on your first order. That's $50 off plus free shipping at goodshop.com podcast code 50 Small Town Murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you how to do something nice for your mom with StoryWorth. StoryWorth.com Absolutely. It's your mom. Yeah. Your mom's special to you, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Of course she is.

[James Petregallo]

What you want to do? Leave her sitting there with some gift you got her or just some normal mass produced thing that you picked up at some store? That's not what your mom wants from you. Your mom wants heart. Yeah. Yeah. She's done stuff for you. Think about it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do something thoughtful.

[James Petregallo]

So get in there and you can do it too. Most Mother's Day gifts are about one moment. Storyworth is about so much more. Storyworth gives your mom a year long experience and gives your family a book filled with the stories only she can tell. You're immortalizing your mom. This is great stuff. Each week Storyworth sends her a question about her life. She responds however she wants, writing back over email or web voice recording or new this year, guided phone calls too. No apps, logins or tech hassles. In case your mom isn't into that. Storyworth makes it easy for her so she can focus on the joy of remembering and reflecting. You can even pick the questions you can choose from. Pre written questions, write your own or let Storyworth create personalized questions based on her life. You get each story as she tells it. And after a year, Storyworth compiles everything, her words, her photos, her life into one big beautiful hardcover book. And it's very cool here. It's very nice. Families have used Storyworth to create over a million books and more than 50,000 five star reviews agree. It's gonna be a treasure that your family will love. You can do it. And new this year is Storyworth's unlimited plan. Buy it once and you'll be able to give Storyworth memoirs to friends and family all year. Plus it comes with all the newest features and multiple full color book copies. It's really good stuff and that means you get all your Mother's Day gifts for your mom. You can do it and your grandma or any mom figures in your life. Plus you can take care of Father's Day too while you're at it. Telling you your mom. You don't know everything about your mother. Maybe you'll find out some fun stuff and some things about her life that were interesting and let her tell you about herself a little bit here. This year, give mom a gift that helps her reflect on her life with fresh perspective and gives your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's day is Sunday May 10th. Order right now and save up to $20 at StoryWorth.com SmallTownMurder Save up to $20 at Storyworth.com SmallTownMurder StoryWorth.com SmallTown Murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So he jumps in his car and says, I'm not doing this anymore. Once again, by the way, he's earned all of this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

He's earned every bit of ire and acrimony here. All of it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You don't get to decide when this conversation's over. You sit still.

[James Petregallo]

You are gonna. Yeah, she didn't get to decide when your affair was over, so you don't get to decide whether her being pissed off is over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he jumps in his truck and takes off on Main street, driving north at a high rate of speed. Just guns it out of Main Street. And we know he likes to go around stuff. He's not one to wait in traffic. His wife outrun her rage. Yep. So then she goes, gets in her car, follows him. Okay, car chase. Car chase. Now, she's a little bit behind him because he jumped in and took off real fast. So she had to wait for a couple cars to go. So she's back a little bit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Red light.

[James Petregallo]

Sure. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about a red light. That's about to happen, actually, at the intersection of Main street and Lower Newton Road in downtown St. Albans. City in parentheses. That's what that is. He runs a red light. Okay. He's about to run a red light. Now at the same time, a car coming the other way is trying to turn left onto Main street from Lower Newton. So he's about to blow a red light into someone turning left, which would be a. Just pound him in the driver's door and could kill people. I've been in a car accident like that. It sucked. I think they're turning left, and he's coming this way. So I think it's one of those.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, they're going around him. Left.

[James Petregallo]

No. Yeah, they're coming from here and turning left. He's coming up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So you can get this. Got it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Which is. I got hit in a driver's side by a minivan when I was, like, 18, and I ended up. My whole driver's seat was on top of the passenger seat next to me. So that was a tough one. So the other car is being driven by Anna Alger, and her fiance as well is in the car with her. Anna's driving. Her fiance is in the passenger seat. Now, Anna Alger is born November 13th, 1981. She's from St. Albans. Parents are Lloyd Thompson and Rebecca Alger, and she graduated in 2000 from Missisqui Valley Union High School, which is the same high school Matt graduated from. They went to the same high school and they're like a year and a half apart. Yeah, but they were definitely there at the same time for a while, but they don't know each other. She's a licensed nurse's aide. Anna is and worked for several years in various nursing homes, including the Holiday House, the Haven Healthcare and the Redstone Villa, all in the area of St. Albans. She also worked at the Birchwood Terrace Healthcare center in Burlington. And for the past three years she's been with Peerless Clothing and in earlier years was employed by Price Chopper. So she does nurse's aid stuff and then works whatever job she needs to work. She has a daughter as well, but the daughter is not in the car, but her fiance, Patrick Dally, is in the car in the passenger seat. Now, back to the intersection, because we kind of paused as we kind of froze time there now. So she is able to avoid the collision.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good.

[James Petregallo]

She's able to slam on her brakes and he makes, you know, he kind of goes around her. And again from a court document, she made a gesture of errant disdain at him with her middle finger.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah, that's cool.

[James Petregallo]

She gave him the errant disdain is a great way to put that, but okay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Didn't know that was what we call it.

[James Petregallo]

Me neither. But that's why I love a court document. They could have just said she gave him the finger, we'd all know what that meant.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She gave him the universal go fuck yourself finger.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now, this is fucking amazing. Okay. This is. Wow. This is again from the court document. Okay. Matt's wife saw Matt run the red light and called him to tell him about it. Called him to tell him about it like he didn't know. Like he had something hanging off the bumper or some shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In an awful big hurry to get away from me, aren't you? You just ran a red light, called

[James Petregallo]

him to yell at him, and he didn't answer the phone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Now, shortly after passing through the intersection where he almost killed a woman and man. And then they gave him the finger. He pulls his car to the side of the road and stops. This is around 248 North Main street around the address. It's right in front of a Domino's pizza that's still there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now, Anna Alger, rather than turning left, changed her direction to follow this guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She made a U turn for a conversation.

[James Petregallo]

She just made a right because she was coming to make a left. She would have just turned.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She was going that left. Or was she going against him?

[James Petregallo]

Left.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Know what I'm saying?

[James Petregallo]

She's coming. I don't know how to explain this. He's going this way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's going east. She's going north. She. Right. I get it.

[James Petregallo]

He's going north. She's going, let's say west. She goes to turn where he was going to hit her this way. Now, instead of turning left, she turns right where he went and followed him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, so he ran the shit out of that light. It was way.

[James Petregallo]

Just. Oh, it was just a red light. It wasn't like turning red. It was a red light. He just wasn't paying attention to it at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Cross traffic.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So she pulls in behind him and also stops. All right? Now he's in the car, and what he's doing is sitting with a loaded 9 millimeter on his lap, about to blow his brains out, according to him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

So she gets out of her car and walks toward him. Anna does.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The wife is still on her way, still en route.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Still hasn't caught up.

[James Petregallo]

She hasn't caught up yet, Danielle. Now Anna gets out of her car and walks toward him. He gets out of his car and walks toward her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

As she's walking toward him, Anna waved her arms, pointed at him and yelled, I think I would have. I think I, like Anna said, quote, what kind of a piece of shit do you think you are? Which is a. That's such a great question to ask in traffic. It just really is. What kind of a piece of shit do you think you are? Is phenomenal.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She makes so many. She's so flustered.

[James Petregallo]

She almost got killed by this guy. She's like, what the fuck is your problem, you dick fart? Like, she wouldn't even know what to call him. You know what I mean? That's how angry and flustered you are.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She was gonna. What kind of piece of shit move was that? But then she's like, this guy's a piece of shit kind of piece of shit you think you are.

[James Petregallo]

That's the. A person who's just. They've had it with you when they say that. Now she gets in with about six feet of him. They're very close to each other. He just raises his pistol and fires 11 shots into her face.

[Jimmy Wisman]

11.

[James Petregallo]

11 empties his gun. Just empties his clip into a nine meter. What the fuck that's how many he had in there. Open fire. Firing 11 shots. Completely emptying the clip. She's hit. We're not sure if it's seven or eight times.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, I mean, he's a piece of shit shot.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He then puts another clip into the pistol.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

While Anna's fiance is getting out of the car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

He points the gun at Anna's fiance.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And the gun jams. He tries to shoot him, but it won't go. Won't fire.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Brand new mag and it won't fire. What a shit gun.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So this guy, this fiance was about to get killed, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Luckiest man on the planet.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So he. Then Matt turns and runs away. Starts running. Just up the street, just taking off. Right. He's running away. And as he runs away, the fiance summons help from a passerby. And they check on Anna. She's already dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. You're not making it.

[James Petregallo]

She's been shot seven or eight times in the head and neck.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

From a distance of six feet and closer. This is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

That's wild. Now, the wounds are at least seven bullets, some striking her as she fell to the ground. They said any of the shots could have been fatal. Any of them. They were all in the head and chest. And head, chest, neck. They were all fatal. Investigators will later find 11 empty 9 millimeter shell casings on the roadway near where she was shot. That's how they know it's 11 times. So where's Matthew going?

[Jimmy Wisman]

On foot.

[James Petregallo]

He takes off up the street. Now, Danielle, who was witnessing all this from a couple car lengths behind, chases after him. Basically, she chases after him and she sees him point the pistol to his head and try to pull the trigger, but it still won't work. This guy is a fucking loser. He's just a fucking loser. I'm sorry. He's just a loser.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a piece of shit and an

[James Petregallo]

asshole and a loser.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's exactly what he is. And a piece of shit can't kill

[James Petregallo]

himself, but he can kill an innocent woman who he almost killed already.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're right. So it's like almost vehicular manslaughtered her instead. Shot her in the face a million

[James Petregallo]

times instead, straight murdered her. So at that point, Danielle takes the pistol from him as well as a second pistol he was carrying. He had another. He had another one. The St. Albans police arrive at the scene. Shortly after that, they arrest him. There's a video shot by a witness named Kyle Gagne, who, or Ganya either one. Who. He videos the entire arrest.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And basically the video shows police holding him down, taking him to a cruiser. And you can hear a voice be heard and it's Matt's voice talking about slowing down and saying he was sorry. So that's what he's saying. Now, he had two firearms. A Ruger 9 millimeter semi auto handgun and a Kel Tech 380 pistol, along with three mags as well, three clips including the empty one. And five loose bullets that were just loose, just hanging loosey's. Just Lucy's that he kept in there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They fall out of the. They fall out of the magazines, you know.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, I thought you meant in the gun. I thought you were joking. You know, if they're sitting out loose. Yeah. You know, it could fall out if

[Jimmy Wisman]

I fall out of a deltac. That's not a good weapon.

[James Petregallo]

Seems like a piece of.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's like a high point.

[James Petregallo]

There's a witness named Kylie Charbonneau who's working at Domino's across the street. She heard six or seven gunshots and ran outside to the front of the store, which seems ill advised. Yeah, there's six or seven gunshots outside. Let me go out there and see what's happening. No.

[Jimmy Wisman]

As a Domino's employee. Nope.

[James Petregallo]

Does this have anything to do with pizza? Probably not. We don't use guns for our pizza.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So you are inviting violence to a Domino's. Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

No, thank you. She said, I actually heard the squealing of the tires. I heard screaming and I heard multiple gunshots. When I actually walked to the door to see what was the noise was because it wasn't just firecrackers. I just knew it. I looked outside and I saw the guy walking from his black car. He saw the cops coming and he willingly emptied out his pockets and laid there on the ground and let them arrest him. He wasn't fighting or anything. It was really scary. He was screaming. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He was saying how he was trying to kill himself and the trigger wouldn't go off. And how that woman should have left him alone. Okay. Another witness named Carolyn Manahan said. I've never seen anything like that before.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I would fucking hope.

[James Petregallo]

I would hope. I never see anybody just unload a clip into someone's face for no reason after they almost killed the fucking person.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every time it happens, I go, another one this week.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. I guess there was an off duty cop working out in the fitness zone that was right there. And they said that he looked out the window and told everybody to get away from the window. Then he locked the door and parked his cruiser in front of the victim to shield from people looking here. So that's what went on there. Now, the video of the arrest was on Facebook, and that was a big deal. The Kyle Gagna who took the video said, I was sitting there the whole time, and I never realized he had a gun on his lap till I saw him grab it and toss it onto the ground.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And another comment under the video from a woman named Jill Marie Longley said, I saw the man and the woman standing outside of their cars and they seemed to be arguing. He started toward her and she put her hands up and said something along the lines of, no, don't. I had been driving by at this time, and when I went past, I heard a shot. When I looked back, she was on the ground and he had taken off. So extremely scary. Okay, now, not at all where you guys thought the story was gonna go. Correct.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

You thought, the wife is gonna get it or he's gonna end up something,

[Jimmy Wisman]

but not the girl's gonna fight back.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not some. Her fiance would jump out and then kill Matt, you know what I mean? Like, before he got a chance to kill her. And that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is peripheral character.

[James Petregallo]

Totally peripheral character. This is what I mean. You don't know what the hell's going on with people when they're crazy on the road. You have no idea what they're pissed off from. You have no idea if to blow their brains out and you're getting in their way. You don't know. It's always best to just say fuck it and drive away. It doesn't matter. What are you going to settle by? What, are you going to punch better driving skills into somebody? Like, it doesn't work like that. Really. It's stupid.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're going to get to tell them they're a piece of shit, though.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. But you can do that out the window. That should make you feel good enough in your car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God. I was driving within a couple months ago, on my way somewhere, there was a man, like, I noticed he was swerving in and out of traffic. He got off the freeway. Literally. We were. I mean, he was swerving around traffic. I could see him in the rear view. Yeah, he got off maybe 20 miles down the road. He was on the same freeway with me as he got off the road. I glanced over, I saw him getting off the freeway, rolled his window down and gave me the finger. I'm like, this man has had a whole thing happening in his truck for the last fucking. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. You don't even know what you did.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I had no idea. I don't even know what I did.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. It's really pointless.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, absolutely pointless. Just don't bother because you don't know the infraction. You don't know what the retribution is for the refraction because you don't infra. For the problem.

[James Petregallo]

You don't know. No. You have no idea. And one time it worked out where somebody, like, went around and almost hit me. And I was like, you motherfucking asshole. And he drove, like, 20ft and then hit a cop car. I was like, yes. Fuck you. Take that, dickhead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I was like, you're going now. You're fucked good. So they get Matt to the station, they arrest him. They take him down to the St. Albans police Department, and they sit him down and they bring him in the interview room. And this takes place. Okay? Matt says, hello. And the detective says, hi. And Matt says, I'm Matt.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Boy, oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

And the detective said, are you Matt? Let's make sure of that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Are you the guy?

[James Petregallo]

And Matt says, I was pulled over here to let her go because I was going to kill myself. So he's saying, I pulled over so she could go by, and I was just going to kill myself on the side of the road. Oh, that's what he said. So the detective says, okay, hang on, hang on. The detective, he hasn't even read him his rights yet.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I gotta read you something real important.

[James Petregallo]

He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then he says, okay, hang on, hang on. Matt says. Then she got out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shut up.

[James Petregallo]

Detective says, wait, wait, wait, wait. Calm. And then Matt says, are you a doctor? Yeah. Doctors usually carry guns. That's who I am.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Dr. Detective Jones.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, that's me. I'm an armed doctor, and I'm here to talk to you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let me do your blood pressure.

[James Petregallo]

Anybody with a tie is a doctor in this guy's mind. So the detective sergeant says, no, I'm a detective. And Matt says, I didn't take any of my medication this morning. I'm sick. I don't feel well at all. And the detective says, okay, cool. Yeah. Matt says, I didn't mean it. I didn't mean anything. And the detective says, can I talk. Can I talk to you?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And Matt says, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And the detective says, can I talk to you, okay? And Matt says, I'm sorry. And the detective says, okay. And Matt says, I'm sorry. He said, I was trying. I'll tell you everything. And the detective says, okay. And Matt says, I'll tell you everything. And he says, okay, sure. Then Matt says, I swear to God, I won't give you any problem. I swear to God. What do you think? The detective says, okay, okay. That's exactly right. And then he goes on, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And the detective says, we just need to figure out what's going on, okay?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay is his comfort word. Then Matt says, I'm going to. It's been my counselor. And the detective says, okay, hang on. Yeah, right there. Just hang on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Chill.

[James Petregallo]

Matt does not hang on. He says, my counselor. My counselor quit. My counselor quit. And then I. I'm so sorry. Detective says, hang on. Hang on. Okay. In order for me to talk to you, okay, I gotta read you what's called a Miranda warning. Okay? None of this matters at this point. So Matt says, okay, Yep, yep. Ready to. Let's do it. The detective said, I'm a detective with the police department here. And. Okay. And then Matt says, I used to be such a good. I didn't never. I never done anything wrong. I mean, I got in a car accident and I got a careless and negligent out of it. This. I swear to God.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Great.

[James Petregallo]

The detective asks, what's your name?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Because this is all the information. All that is irrelevant to me right now. I got this sheet I need to fill out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. I got specific questions I gotta ask you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So Matt says, is she okay? Matt Webster. What?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, first. Is that your first name?

[James Petregallo]

I mean, yeah. So he says. The detective says, okay, before I go any further, I have to read you these warnings. And Matt says, I've seen it on tv. Yeah, okay. I know how this goes. This is fine. So the detective said, in order for me to talk to you and find out exactly what happened today, I've got to read this to you. Okay? And he says, okay. And we go on, date of birth. Do you know what today's date is? And he says, yes, and what time it is and all this type of shit. He says, anything you want to know, I'll tell you. I'll tell you everything. And the cop says, okay, are you going to be able to calm down for me where I feel comfortable enough, where I can take these two off? Meaning I think his guns. I think his guns and his Cuffs, like, do I need these in here? You're going to be cool, right? And he says, yeah, definitely. And he says, okay. And then Matt says, definitely. I swear to God, I'm seriously, I will do whatever. He just said, calm down. He said, I will do whatever. I mean, one of the reasons, obviously I just. Is my wife. Okay. Sorry, I don't. I don't. She was in the orange car. She was behind me, or not behind me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Cbd.

[James Petregallo]

He's all over the place.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's manic as fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. He's in a complete manic meltdown at this moment in time. So the detective says, okay, okay, okay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Too many questions, too many statements, too many words.

[James Petregallo]

He said, before we go any further, I've got to explain the Miranda rights and your warnings here. Gotta do this. So then they go on. Right to remain silent, and it's a bunch of yes sirs. And so we'll skip all that. So they said, do you want to be represented by a lawyer and have one present during questioning? That's a two part question. So I wouldn't even talk to you. So he's also telling Matt, if you do want a lawyer, I'm out of this room and you're not going to be able to get this all out like you want to. So Matt said, it's. There's. I guess I got to know if she's okay. So the detective says, do you want to talk to me? And Matt said I should. Right? It's better. It's better that way, I think. I don't know. I don't know. I should. Yes, yes. He is all over the place. So the detective says, better that way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ask any defense attorney. No, it is absolutely not.

[James Petregallo]

It's better. It's better that way, I think. I don't know. I don't know. I should. Yes, yes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's better for the taxpayers, that's for sure.

[James Petregallo]

So what do you think? The detective says, okay, okay. That's right. The answer's always okay. So he says, yes, sir, I wish to talk to you. All right. So the detective said, okay, you've been advised of your rights. There's no threats or promises have been made against me knowing my rights. I agree to waive them. I waive my right, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. And he says, can you sign it right here? Because that's the I'm gonna talk thing. He says, yes, you saw all these?

[Jimmy Wisman]

And we move on.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So he said, all it's saying is that you agree to Speak to me. That's all it is. And Matt says, I guess I'm just. I'm afraid because, you know, I don't know the laws too well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, you don't.

[James Petregallo]

Do you know that shooting a stranger in the face eight times, you know, red means stop.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We'll start there.

[James Petregallo]

Well, let's go back to that. Let's go back to waiting in lines and not passing around people when you don't have room. Let's start there, and then we'll go to red lights and we'll see if we can get all the way up to murder at some point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get right up to road rage murder.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so he says. Matt says, I guess I want to be 100% honest with you and everything I know. And the detective says, okay. Well, in order for me to talk to you. And Matt says, okay. He says, I mean, you have to waive your rights. It's up to you whether or not you want to waive your rights. There's two sides to every story. And I know that and you know that. Okay. And I don't know what really happened. Okay? And Matt says, I was. Okay, I'll explain it. So anyway, they go back and forth. So he says, in order for me to get your side of the story, I need to talk to you. And he says, so, I mean, it would be. I mean. And Matt says, I want to do the right. I want to do the right thing, but I don't know if the right thing is to get a. Would they be able to come right now so I could talk to you, a lawyer? I don't know. So he's saying, should I get a lawyer and he can sit here and then we'll talk about. That's not how it works.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Will it take a while to get him down here? Will it inconvenience him?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, it'll take a while. He's saying, like, you know, I don't want to sit here and not talk to you for that long. But what he doesn't understand is if he asks for a lawyer, the interrogation's over. No lawyer would say, yeah, let's sit in an interrogation room. I'll sit next to you while you answer questions. He'd say, shut the fuck up. Go to your jail cell and we'll deal with it later.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We'll sit here, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So then the detective says, man, I can't give you that advice. I can't give you legal advice. So Matt says, right. And the detective says, you know. And Matt says, I just. I don't as a man. I don't want you to look less at me, you know, if I choose to, like if I should say I want to get the lawyer, I do. I want to help you. I need to tell you what happened. Yeah, okay. So if he went there, I don't want you to think less of me. This is a stranger.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't want you.

[James Petregallo]

You're a moron.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Look down on me as a bitch of a man.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of a pussy man, if you will. So he said he wanted to talk with the sergeant more because it's the right thing to do. And I just know someone is going to holler at me later for it. Probably because I know it's the right thing to do. But I know a lawyer's gonna be like, how stupid are you, dumb fuck?

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck are you doing?

[James Petregallo]

So then he signs it. And here we go. So he said that day he was at home reading his email. He received a message from his ex girlfriend whom he'd been having an affair with starting in January 2013 and ending about two and a half months before today. He then diverts into describing the car he had finished repairing the week before. He said, we finally finished the car Friday. I was going to start work. Everything was going to go the right way. He then describes an app on his phone which allowed him to communicate with his ex girlfriend without his wife knowing. You know, WhatsApp or some shit like that. Yeah. Oh, Snapchat, Snapchat, WhatsApp, whatever the fuck. So he then asks where the phone is, the cop. And then Matt starts crying again. He said he lost track of the phone after the shooting. And he said I was collapsing on the ground with my wife. I'm so friggin scared. Then he says I was lazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he said I was supposed to be cleaning the house. I wish I was still cleaning the house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'd give anything to be dusting right now.

[James Petregallo]

Anything to be just scrubbing a toilet ball right now. So bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Give anything to smell pledge. Right.

[James Petregallo]

This smell of pine right now would take me away from this blaze. Then he said his girlfriend called him in tears, apparently upset that her children's father was going to leave her and take their children. Not Matt, her actual. Her other children, her children's father, the woman he's having an affair with. So she asked to see Matt. He said he initially refused, but then he agreed. However, he called his wife at work to tell her he was going to see his ex girlfriend, you know, because he's a moron for the 45th fucking time this episode. Then the detective asked for details including the route he took to his ex girlfriend's apartment and all that. He said, Matt said, I got a really bad memory. I'm trying to get this the best that I can for you. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you the best home security available out there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Simply safe simplisafe.com S I M P L I safe.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

There is a big difference between traditional home security and Simplisafe. It's just number one. It's so easy when you get it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You can have the whole system up, installed on your own and live. So easy to do it online. There's apps and all this in like an hour. You can do this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is less time than normally people would take. Just in the window waiting for a technician for they have the cameras and they can see what's going on outside before you. Even before you know what's going on while you're in your house sleeping. They could be yelling at someone through your system telling them to get out of here. The cops can be called and you're like, what's going on now? It's great. They take it, they take the initiative and they go after it before there's a problem. They make it so there was not going to be a problem for you. It is so good. We really, really love it. It's easy to get secured. You can easily customize a system that's right for your [e-mail] and it ships to your door in just a few days. With an app, guided setup and no drilling required, you can install and arm your system under an hour. No need to wait for technicians or any of that. And it's not just a camera. It's a comprehensive ecosystem of sensors, cameras for inside and out and 24. 7 professional monitoring. In the event of a break in, fire or flood, Simplisafe's agents are ready to take action. No long term contracts. There's no lock ins, no hidden cancellation fees. SimpliSafe earns your business by keeping you safe, not by trapping you in a contract. That's great too. Their pricing is also really good. 24. 7 monitoring for a fraction of what traditional brands charge you. And they were named America's best customer service by Newsweek. And over 5 million people trust SimpliSafe every day. And U.S. news and World Report ranked them the best home security system of 2026. We also rank it that way as well. We want you to experience the same peace of mind that we do. Which is why we've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com small that's half [e-mail] small S I M P L I safe.com small there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[Mackenzie]

A Mochi moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying. You're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy.

[James Petregallo]

Thanks, Sadie.

[Mackenzie]

I'm Mayra Am founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com

[Ad Voice]

Sadie is a Mochi member, compensated for

[James Petregallo]

her story, he said because his wife was coming to his ex girlfriend's. He said they left the apartment and parked behind the VFW hall on Lake Street.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

While parked, he was talking with his wife over the phone and he had his ex girlfriend tell his wife the affair was over. Said he passed it. You tell her it's over. Now describing his relationship, he says, I'm a pushover. I'm a nice guy. I never meant to hurt anybody in my life. He said even though it's done, I wanted to protect my ex girlfriend. He said I didn't want her to lose her children. She still loves them. She's got one tattooed on each foot. Well, then she must be a great mother.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What, a mother? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That means she's a great mother. Any tattoo you have on your body of your kids, names or anything, you can do anything you want. You can burn them with fucking cigarette butts. You can beat them with coat hangers. You do whatever you want, really, because you're a great mom. You have a tattoo of them, so you must be a great mom.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Specifically feet, though, you know, you pay

[James Petregallo]

the guy upwards of $100 for that. You must be a great mom. It doesn't mean you're a great or a bad mom. Just means you got tattoos of your kids, that's all. It's fine.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But when you can show it off with a strappy shoe, that's a mom.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, well, that's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a damn nice mom.

[James Petregallo]

That's mothering right there. Yeah. So Matt then describes taking the ex girlfriend back to her apartment and he said in the Middle of this, he said, I haven't taken any of my medication, so I don't feel so hot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And the detective said, maybe I can get you the medications from your car later. And, you know, are they there?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Your stuff, if you have them on. And we can get them for you if they're prescribed by a doctor. And he offers them some water. He said, danielle comes in and she parks by the apartment. And Webster said, here Met said he told his wife to follow him. Let's go over here. They went to the switchyard shopping plaza on Lake street where he says he bought cigarettes and a soda. They spoke. He said, quote, she was angry. Well, no shit. Yeah. She had to leave work to go sit in an apartment complex because you're hanging out with your girlfriend. Yeah, I would think that'll piss her off a little bit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She left work to monitor your breakup.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Make sure. He said that he drove away from the switchyard with Danielle following him. He said, I was on Main street in front of that new restaurant. Twigs, I think it is. He said he had the 9 millimeter handgun in a holster. He said, I've carried a gun since I was old enough to carry a gun, so I just always have my gun. He diverts from the gun to describe his medications and said he takes two pain medications for pancreatitis. And he said, that stuff's rotted my brain even more. Even more than it already was rotted there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If you think heroin's bad, wait till I tell you about whatever the fuck this over the counter shit is.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. So returning to what happened, he said, I took my 9 millimeter off safety and chambered around. He said he pressed the gun to his neck, which doesn't seem like the best way to do it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, that's.

[James Petregallo]

He said I was ready to die because this argument had been so ongoing for almost a year. He said, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I had it squeezed. I could feel it coming back. He said, the hammer on the gun. He said, I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to die. He said while all this was occurring, he ran a red light. He said he pulled over and a couple pulled up behind him. He said they pulled over. I didn't even want to talk about this part. I was so scared. He said I wasn't safe to drive. So I pulled over as soon as I could because I wasn't safe to drive. He said, I don't know why I got out. I got out and first the guy started to get out. He was in the passenger seat. Then the driver's side opens up. I had these two people coming at me. He said he was still holding his gun. He said, I tried to put it back in the holster and it wouldn't go. I didn't think, I didn't think. And then he starts crying and he says, the gentleman that was in the passenger side got back in the car. I think he saw the gun. I said, can you please get back in your car? He went back in the car and she charged further. Like a six point buck come up over the hill.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, is that what they do?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I have a yard full of deer. Those bucks, if you get caught out there, they just charge you, man. They're like bulls, boy, I'll tell you

[Jimmy Wisman]

something, especially if you're wearing red.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they come right at you. He said, like a six point buck come up over the hill. I pulled up and shot. She kept coming. No, she fell to the ground. I emptied the clip and I didn't even know it. I saw her fall. And at that point it was like, my God, what did I do? He said, a friend riding in the car with Anna, her fiance, started to get out of the car. He said, I pointed it at him. He said he also put a fresh clip in the gun and put it to his temple and squeezed the trigger. And it went click is what he says. So then it's kind of difficult to follow because it's jumbled around. He's a mess. He's crying and he said his wife appears and takes the gun. At least that's what he thinks. He said his memory is so jumbled that there's no way to replay it now in my brain. He said, I'm a terrible fucking shot. At 1.2. He said, I remember seeing the blood on the pavement. I knew I had done wrong. So I said, somebody's got to call the cops. He describes cradling both guns because he didn't want anyone to use them. He said, my wife caught up to me. She said, you just shot somebody. I collapsed in her arms and I said, somebody's got to call the cops. So he said, there was another man there. I think he was going for my gun, my father's gun that was on the ground. I was afraid the man would shoot my wife. So I picked the gun up and told everyone to stay back. Then when uniformed officers arrived, he said he threw the gun out of reach and laid on the ground. He said, I wanted to be taken into custody. Yeah. So interesting. He said he always carries an extra clip with the 9 millimeter because it only has 10 rounds.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's very little.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, there's so many times I leave the house where I'm like, I need at least 20 shots. I have to have at least 20

[Jimmy Wisman]

shots or else I need two mags and one in the chamber.

[James Petregallo]

I won't go to the five guys without it. I mean, obviously it's just dangerous over there. He said, because why? Just for safety's sake, he said, cause I'm a terrible shot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I know. Six feet away. You still missed three times.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said I might need to unload the clip on somebody. He said guns have kind of always been in my life. He said he used to work for a Georgia gun maker, Century Arms. That's one, yeah. He said also, they asked about his medications. And he said I was a prescribed addict, meaning he's addicted to the drugs he was prescribed, meaning oxycodone and methadone. He said I was all out of my oxycodone because I had a bad month, pain wise. So he. Then he began snorting oxycodone. He said it stopped my pain and it stopped my depression. Yeah, I bet.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shit was amazing.

[James Petregallo]

He then said, if I was still on oxycodone, I don't think my temper would have been. Then he said today I was at my lowest depression stage. So if he would have just snorted his pills, he would have been fine is what he's saying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I wouldn't have cared about this.

[James Petregallo]

Then he asked about Anna's condition, but the detective said he didn't know. And then Matt said, I want to know and I don't want to know. You know, Matt, you know, she's pretty dead. So during the arraignment, the state's attorney calls it an act of extreme violence. This was a random act. And he said the defendant and Anna had no relationship whatsoever, which is true, despite the fact they went to the same high school at the same time. They didn't know each other other.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They had no relationship.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's brutal. So he's a reign. We're gonna have a trial for him in a minute here, but it's gonna take a while, the trial to build up. Usually a year, year and a half, you know, of prep. So a year after the actual murder, family members hold a vigil for Anna Alger here. And they said they hope through a candlelight vigil in sending lanterns and balloons into the sky, that Anna somewhere can feel the love that they have for her. Her grandmother Gladys said that Anna was ready to give. Basically, she said that. Okay. The family said a memorial placed at the scene of the shooting was moved to a friend's yard last week after St. Albans city officials received a complaint. And Anna's grandmother said that she was ready to give the mayor an earful about that shit. It's a goddamn memorial for a dead woman. Alger's sister Ginny said that she feels like the community support has dwindled some since the sh. But the family is standing strong. They said our main concern is justice for Anna. At this point, we're just asking the community to back her up. She was a hometown girl. Now he's gonna go to trial, Is that right? This seems like the ultimate need to plea bargain case. He shot a person in broad fucking daylight in the middle of Main Street, Literally, with people watching out the Domino's Pizza window. And while they were on their treadmills. Like this is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, you shot a woman to death

[James Petregallo]

on the street because she asked you what kind of a piece of shit you think you are that you think you are, think you are. So one of the defense strategies here, because you go, how do you defend this guy?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I guess you just call him crazy, right?

[James Petregallo]

You can either call him crazy or they're gonna say it's self defense. Two people were coming at him, so he felt threatened. He's a big bald fat fuck too, Matt, so I don't know how threatened he felt by a woman coming after him, but whatever. Anyway, Patrick Dally, Alger's fiance, who was in the passenger seat here, he had a deposition here that was read to the court. And he spoke of how angry Anna was at the near collision. He said he urged her not to stop, but he said, that's not the person she is. He said, if someone ticks her off, she's going to tell you how she feels. He said he had also he'd never previously seen her angry, but had heard from her family and best friend about her temper, but never put it on him, which is good. The state's attorney said the deposition of these family members and Anna's best friend would serve no purpose and would only serve to harass these people because they were trying to bring in depositions from other people. And the state was like, we're not making these people public for no reason, basically. So they also talk about provocation, and they say provocation has to be adequate. Mere words are never enough to merit a physical response. She never made it past the fender of her car. And her car was riddled with bullets. So not like she was in his face trying to scratch his eyes out or something. The defense said his mental state was so impaired that he was without the capacity to form intent. Oh, that's what they have. They have a clinical psychologist named John Holt who appears as an expert witness who says that the only person Matt wanted to kill on the day of his fatal encounter was himself. That's it. And this was just in the way. So there's two shrinks. There's the he was crazy shrink, That's John Holt saying that it's clear that he committed the act, he fired a weapon. In Mr. Webster's case, he was impaired by the immediacy of what happened. He'd gone from being suicidal, going through a red light and not even being aware of what was going on, to all of a sudden when he opened his car door and comes out, bam, incoming right at him, screaming. He did not have time to think rationally. And they said, well, he emptied an entire magazine plus a bullet that was in the chamber. So that's 11 trigger pulls. That's 11 intentional acts. Right. And the doctor said, I'm not sure that's 11 intentional acts. He added, if the trigger pulls occurred rapidly, he may not have had time to think about what he was doing between shots.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I guess you call that one event.

[James Petregallo]

One event, yeah. Overall. Now, there's also the States, he was fine shrink. That's Dr. Paul Cotton, who says that he'd been making conscious decisions throughout the afternoon before the fatal act. And those conscious decisions didn't end when he pulled the trigger. So there's that. Now, closing arguments here, the prosecutor says, lastly, in discussing the absence of a need to prove motive, he said this. The only thing the law will require us to prove is for you to find that he intended to do her great bodily harm. Going back to that hammer and nail for a minute, this is a fellow who looked at the world like a hammer, carrying these two guns around all the time. No, you mean he looked at the world like a nail and he's carrying a hammer, which would be these two guns. Yeah. If you look at the world like a hammer, what does the rest of the world look like? I guess if you're the hammer, it looks like a nail. You're going to find a reason, an excuse to act out in that way. That's what they said. Now, the defense said, or I'm sorry, the prosecution went on, it's not like you pull the trigger once and the gun Empties itself. You pull the trigger 11 separate times. It's not just wildly here and there and off in the distance at the target. So he's shooting right there. They said if he had actually pulled the trigger, he would have been successful in killing himself. As successful as he was in killing Ana, Algeria.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He didn't pull the trigger.

[James Petregallo]

They said he must not have pulled the trigger because he said he tried doing the car and it didn't work. But then he got out and shot her 11 times and then it wouldn't work again, miraculously. So, yeah, the defense said the shots happened. It just happened so fast. We can't blame people. It's so quick. He said they happened so quickly that Matt did not have the chance to think about what he was doing until it was all over. They said he's not upset, he's not mad, he's not enraged. Then he tells the police about the event and says, I don't know what I did. You fire till there's nothing there because you're not thinking or you just keep pulling.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now the verdict here the jury is five men and seven women. They began deliberating the case Tuesday night. After five days of testimony, they stopped for the night return Wednesday morning and had a verdict pretty quick.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They find him guilty of second degree murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Which is.

[James Petregallo]

It's not first degree murder. She didn't even know this person 10 seconds before this happened. So you can't say it was premeditated and reckless endangerment and negligent operation. Again, the traffic thing, because he blew a red light, which is pretty funny. They even kept that charge in there. During sentencing, Anna's fiance, Patrick said, we will never forgive you, Matthew, for what you put on us. We no longer have Anna. When Anna died, a piece of me did, too. Anna's daughter writes a letter to the court. I won't give her name. Says, now that you've shot my mom because I don't know how old she is. Now that you've shot my mom, we can't do the things that we said we were going to do together. Jesus Christ. Yeah. So in a more recent note, she also said, you've really changed my life. I don't feel the same. I don't feel Safe. She was 11 at the time, writing that, by the way. This poor kid. What a poor kid. That sucks, man. Lost her mom, that shit. So the defense asked for a compassionate sentence. They said, he's deeply remorseful. Look at him. He's so sad right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't care yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he was contemplating history. He's got a long, long history of or contemplating suicide. Long history of mental health problems and drug abuse. And, you know, come on. Basically, come on, let's do this. Now the prosecution. Prosecution's asking for life without parole. The defense said that would be completely disproportionate to the typical prison term for second degree murder. Matthew speaks. He said, I'm sorry for the tears and broken hearts. For the family, friends and co workers who will never get to hear her laugh again. I heard she had a contagious laugh. And I'm sorry. No one will be able to hear it anymore. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Then there's a letter he wrote. And he said, every single time that I dream about that day, I try to fix it, fix what went wrong. But even while I'm asleep, I cannot fix it. I wake up in a cold sweat, stare at the cement wall and begin to cry. Not just for myself, but for everyone this tragedy has affected. The judge says Ms. Alger did nothing to invite her death. Disagreements occur between people every day. Ms. Alger's response to the fact that you ran the red light and nearly caused an accident was not unusual. It was not improper or illegal. She may have been upset, but the court cannot state clearly enough that she is not at fault. She approached you, but she didn't provoke you. She had no idea what she was walking into. Mr. Webster, you are entirely responsible for what occurred. You are the one who was armed. You were the one who chose your response to her. You alone decided how this would end. You, sir, may fuck off. 40 years to life. So pretty good sentence. It's not bad for second degree. That's banging him pretty good. It's usually 20 to life for second degree. So 40 to life is. You're doing 40? Pretty steep.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Anna's family said this is her stepmother said we weren't sure what was going to happen. We were very satisfied. We can finally put Anna to rest. So that's nice. He appeals a couple of times. 2015 for retrial. 2017 to the state Supreme Court, saying the lower court should have suppressed incriminating statements he gave following his arrest before detectives read him his Miranda rights, even though he said the same things after he was read his Miranda rights. But those were utterances that you couldn't control. That detective was telling him to shut the fuck up and he wouldn't do it. In the middle of the sentence, he would interrupt him and say more. So there's no way to Stop a guy for doing that. They reject it. He's still in prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good.

[James Petregallo]

Anna's still dead. Her daughter still doesn't have a mother. And yeah, Danielle's like, wow, I didn't expect the day to end like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's terrible.

[James Petregallo]

That is fucking crazy. So that everybody. St. Albans, Vermont and wow, didn't expect that turn right at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, That's a crazy story. It's just too crazy. And it's very small town murder. I mean, it's in a small town. She's gonna chase him. It's Main Street. It's everything this show is. Sucks. Yeah. Poor Anna. So anyway, if you enjoy that story, please get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars. It really helps drive the show up the charts and all that kind of thing. We don't understand it, but that's how it works. So for sure do that. Follow us on social media MallTownMurder on Instagram, SmallTown Pod on Facebook. Definitely, definitely get yourself or go to shutupandgivememurder.com get yourself tickets for live shows. We are May 2nd in Denver. Still some tickets left for that May 30th and Royal Oak. A few tickets left there. The other ones are sold out on those weekends. Then Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown and Boston. So get your asses to a show, come see us. Shut up and give me murder.com patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get everything we put out, including as soon as you subscribe, you get over 300 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. New ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. You get it all. This week. Crime and Sports, a program for kids in sports that turned into obviously a disaster and a cult of abuse and weirdness for small town murderer Corey Richens, Part 2 Utah mother who poisoned her husband and then wrote a book about grief for her grieving children. She's a horrible person. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show and you get everything we put out ad free ad free. So do that. Shut up and givememurder.com if you want to find us on social media, there's dropdown menus that take you anywhere you could possibly need to go. So keep doing that and keep coming back and seeing us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey everybody. Listening to small town murder out there. Hi. Hello. Good to see you out there. I'm here with Jimmy too. And this is an ad, but not an ad for a product. This is an ad for tour dates.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

Come see a live show. The 2026 Tour. All the tickets are for sale right now. Starting out with February 21st in Nashville, March 6th in Durham, March 7th in Atlanta. Phoenix is sold out. We do have tickets though to your stupid opinions. On 21 March, Salt Lake City sold out. Denver has tickets. Be there on May 2. May 29, Buffalo sold out. Royal Oak, Michigan. May 30, we have September 18, Milwaukee. September 19, Minneapolis. October 3 in Dallas. October 16 in San Jose. October 17 in Sacramento, November 13 in Tarrytown. November 14 in Boston. Come see us. The live shows are spectacular. Come join all of the other STM people. You're going to meet so many people. You're going to have fun. Make some new friends like crazy and make some new friends. Come out and see us. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you go for those tickets. Get them right now while they're hot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

See you on the road.

[Ad Voice]

Dryness is one of the biggest challenges for curly hair and many products they clock out after wash day. The new Ultra Moisture collection was literally designed with our hair in mind. Curls, coils, all of it powered by Botano oil and Jamaican Black castor oil. Which means the science is actually doing the work. Clinically proven to help retain moisture for up to five days. This means non stop moisture for up to five whole days. The shampoo gently cleanses without stripping. The mask masque deeply, conditions and helps reduce breakage. The leave in adds rich moisturization with hyaluronic acid. And the curl cream wraps every curl in luxurious hydration with long lasting definition. No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones, no mineral oils. Just nourishment without the compromise. Because here's the thing. Your hair deserves products that actually understand it. Moisture that starts at the root and keeps going well past wash day. That's the Ultra Moisture collection from Cantu Explore their full line built for every curl pattern, every hair routine available now at Walmart. Go get it.