Real Life Murder Songs - Farmville, Virginia

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder
Episode: Real Life Murder Songs - Farmville, Virginia
Release Date: June 6, 2025
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman

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Introduction

Timestamp [00:00 - 01:22]
The episode begins with a series of advertisements for T-Mobile, featuring Zoe Saldana promoting their latest iPhone offer. The hosts briefly interact over the commercials before smoothly transitioning into the main content of the show.

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Show Updates and Promotions

Timestamp [01:22 - 04:25]
James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman introduce themselves as the hosts of "Small Town Murder Express." They discuss recent changes to their show format, including the cessation of early access episodes previously available through Wondery Plus. The hosts emphasize their commitment to a unified listening experience for all audiences and tease upcoming content on their Patreon page. They also promote live show tickets available at shutupandgivemurder.com, highlighting sold-out events and urging listeners to secure their spots.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo: "We are just all getting them at the same time, which we really enjoy." [02:25]

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Overview of Farmville, Virginia

Timestamp [04:25 - 10:06]
The hosts delve into the setting of the episode: Farmville, Virginia. They provide demographic and historical insights, noting its rural nature, low median household income ($35,000), and affordable median home cost ($214,000). Farmville, with a population of approximately 7,266, is described as a tight-knit community with minimal violent crime. The town's history is traced back to its founding in 1798, with origins in coal mining.

Notable Quote:
Jimmy Wissman: "It's a community." [02:27]

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Notable Personalities from Farmville

Timestamp [07:55 - 08:33]
Farmville is home to several notable individuals, including Vince Gilligan, the creator of "Breaking Bad," and the rapper Lady of Rage. The hosts humorously highlight the contrast between the town's serene image and the diverse backgrounds of its residents.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo: "That's a great quote. It's the most specific." [05:57]

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The Murder Case: Key Individuals

Timestamp [13:35 - 31:54]
The core of the episode focuses on a tragic murder case from Farmville in 2009. The victims include:

• Mark Niederbrock: Pastor of Walker's Presbyterian Church, described as a beloved and approachable spiritual leader.
• Deborah Kelly Niederbrock: Mark's wife, an associate professor of sociology and criminal justice studies at Longwood University.
• Emma Kelly Niederbrock: Their 16-year-old daughter, a creative and rebellious high school student involved in online communities.
• Melanie Grace Wells: Emma's 18-year-old friend from West Virginia, also interested in music and heavy metal.

Sammy "Psycho Sam" McCroskey III:
A 20-year-old horrorcore rapper from California, Sammy developed an online relationship with Emma via MySpace, drawn together by mutual interests in horrorcore rap. Sammy's background reveals a troubled adolescence marked by bullying and a detached family life.

Notable Quotes:
James Pietragallo: "He'd be a wonderful on Twitter. Boy, I'm sure he'd love that shit for the next 10 years." [40:13]
Jimmy Wissman: "He just didn't like to cooperate with police. And all he put out there was, 'Jesus told me to do it.'" [56:17]

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The Crime and Investigation

Timestamp [41:18 - 58:22]
On September 12, 2009, Sammy visits Farmville to meet Emma in person and attend the Strictly for the Wicked Horrorcore Music Festival in Southgate, Michigan. After the festival, concerns arise when Melanie's mother from West Virginia reports not hearing from her daughter. Police visits to the Niederbrock household initially yield no results, with Sammy providing vague explanations.

Subsequent police investigations reveal four gruesome murders: Deborah, Melanie, Emma, and Mark Niederbrock, all bludgeoned and found in the family home. The primary murder weapons identified are a ball peen hammer and a wood-splitting maul. Sammy is later apprehended in California but remains elusive initially.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo: "Mark came over the house on September 17th about 5pm just to check on everybody... Sam jumped out with the mall and attacked him in the living room." [61:55]

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Arrest, Trial, and Outcome

Timestamp [58:22 - 76:06]
Sammy is eventually located at Richmond Airport, where he is arrested for driving without a license. Upon interrogation, he expresses remorse and attributes his actions to a directive from Jesus, though his defense attorney emphasizes his emotional turmoil and lack of prior misconduct. Sammy pleads guilty to two counts of first-degree murder and two counts of capital murder, foregoing a trial. The plea deal results in a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Sammy's actions and demeanor during sentencing, including a smirk—a likely result of youth and emotional distress—highlight his complex psychological state.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo: "He spent a long day and a half with the bodies of his girlfriend and the other two. And the lawyer said... 'I think he was just contemplating.'" [70:44]
Judge: "I know exactly what to do about this. You, sir, may fuck off." [72:36]

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Aftermath and Community Impact

Timestamp [76:06 - 78:39]
The community grapples with the shock of the murders, given Farmville's sparse history of violent crimes. The victims' families seek closure, while the case attracts attention from pundits like Dave Rimmer, an occult crimes expert whose interpretations are met with skepticism by the hosts. The episode underscores the profound impact of such tragedies on small communities and the complexities of addressing mental health and online relationships.

Notable Quote:
Jimmy Wissman: "He's just a young man being told no." [69:28]
James Pietragallo: "He's sitting in jail for the rest of his life. What does he do anymore?" [72:19]

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp [78:37 - End]
The hosts wrap up the episode by reflecting on the case's implications and promoting upcoming content. They reiterate the move to a new network, Libsyn, and discuss ongoing efforts to provide an ad-free listening experience. The episode concludes with light-hearted banter, maintaining the show's characteristic blend of humor and serious discussion.

Notable Quote:
James Pietragallo: "We moved off of Wondery and not gonna talk any shit about Wondery. They're fine." [80:09]
Jimmie Whisman: "We are podcast raiders. We're podcast grapefruit. Essentially, that's what we are." [25:37]

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Key Takeaways

• Impact of Online Relationships: The tragic case of Sammy and Emma underscores the potential dangers associated with online interactions, especially involving minors.

• Community Shock: Farmville's low history of violent crime magnifies the community's horror and struggle to comprehend the murders.

• Mental Health and Influence: Sammy's engagement with horrorcore rap and his subsequent violent actions raise questions about the influence of media and the importance of mental health support.

• Legal Proceedings: Sammy's swift plea deal, resulting in a life sentence without parole, highlights the legal system's handling of severe crimes involving young offenders.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• James Pietragallo: "We are just all getting them at the same time, which we really enjoy." [02:25]

• Jimmy Wissman: "It's a community." [02:27]

• James Pietragallo: "He'd be a wonderful on Twitter. Boy, I'm sure he'd love that shit for the next 10 years." [40:13]

• Jimmy Wissman: "He just didn't like to cooperate with police. And all he put out there was, 'Jesus told me to do it.'" [56:17]

• James Pietragallo: "Mark came over the house on September 17th about 5pm just to check on everybody... Sam jumped out with the mall and attacked him in the living room." [61:55]

• James Pietragallo: "He spent a long day and a half with the bodies of his girlfriend and the other two. And the lawyer said... 'I think he was just contemplating.'" [70:44]

• Judge: "I know exactly what to do about this. You, sir, may fuck off." [72:36]

• Jimmy Wissman: "He's just a young man being told no." [69:28]

• James Pietragallo: "He's sitting in jail for the rest of his life. What does he do anymore?" [72:19]

---

Disclaimer: The content of this summary involves discussions of violent crimes and may be distressing to some listeners. Listener discretion is advised.

Transcript

[Zoe Saldana]

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[Unknown]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.

[Zoe Saldana]

You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old phone. Up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Unknown]

There's always a trade in.

[James Petregallo]

Not right now.

[Zoe Saldana]

At T Mobile.

[Unknown]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's okay.

[Unknown]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Zoe Saldana]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Unknown]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints.

[Zoe Saldana]

Really, I'm fine.

[Unknown]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[James Petregallo]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualify.

[Zoe Saldana]

Imported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge.

[James Petregallo]

Payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel c mobile.com. hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. But my name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy episode of Small Town Murder Express. Ten pounds of murder in a two pound bag as it's known around these parts. Lots of crazy stuff today. Somebody that we can all hate together, which is fun. I love when it's just there's not a person alive who can go, yeah, that person's okay. That's. That's great. That's what we have for you today. A lot of fun. And stick around for the end of the show as we'll explain. We have move networks. Not a big deal. Really affects very little with the show. The shows are exactly the same. A long show on one day and Express the other day. Twice a week, two shows a day. That's it. So we'll explain everything later. But basically it's just no more early access. They used to come out a week early if you paid the thing. And wondery plus and all that. We, we're not on Wondery anymore. That's why we can't have that. So we're not doing the early access. Everyone gets them at the same time, which we really enjoy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's so good. It's a community.

[James Petregallo]

It sucks when some of the audience was like hey, no spoiler alerts. I don't have early access. And it's like no, let's just all get them at the same time. We are working on an ad free option as well. I know a lot of people love the ad free option. We are working on that. We're trying to work something out so we can have an ad free option. We'll talk about it more at the end of the show but quickly before we get to that. Definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com tickets for live shows. They start back in September. Grand Rapids and Madison. I think those are about sold out though. I think Irvine has some tickets left. Seattle's got some tickets left. Portland sold out and then dc, Philly. Get your tickets for those because they're going fast too. So get in there. We can't wait. Shut up and give me murder.com also. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all of your bonus material. And by the way, Crime in Sports is the name of our other show that you should be listening to along with your stupid opinions as well. You should listen to that. So anyway, patreon.com crimeinsports anybody $5 a month or above. You are going to get whole lot of stuff. Hundreds and hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription binge away. And then new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports. One Small Town Murder. This week for Crime and Sports we're going to talk about this really weird league that plays 1864 baseball rules with the wool and the skinny bat. It's the weirdest thing in the world. We'll talk about that. And then for Small Town Murder we are going to talk about this Sherry Papini documentary where she says now she's telling the truth and it is crazy. We're going to talk about that. Can't wait for that. Patreon.com crimeinsports that said, and you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. I, I think at the end of the regular show. I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up. Forgive me Murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to Virginia this week. We are going to Farmville, Virginia, which when we're talking about small town murder. A town called Farmville.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's about like the app game. Yep. On Brand as it gets right there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Is the town named after the game or the other way around? We'll find out. We will find out. This is in central Virginia. I know. It's hilarious. Barnville. Is this real? Wait to hear who's from there too. A couple of people you wouldn't expect. An hour and 15 minutes to Richmond one way, about two hours to Durham, North Carolina, the other way. And then it's about three hours to Pearisburg, Virginia, which was our last Virginia episode. Episode 555, Murder on the Trail. That was the A.T. killer, the Appalachian Trail killer. And old Randall. What a weird Lyon Randall. That guy was wild. This is in both Prince Edward and Cumberland counties. Area code 434, population 7266. So not a lot of folks in Farmville. It's a pretty, pretty rural area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

People played the game, that's for sure.

[James Petregallo]

Definitely. Median household income here awfully low. It's about half the national average. 35,000. 6. 90. That's. That's not great. And then median home cost is pretty low as well. $214,000.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not low enough.

[James Petregallo]

Not low enough. If you're making 35 grand for the whole house, that's tough. The motto of this town is just quote the heart of Virginia.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure is.

[James Petregallo]

And it kind of is in the middle of Virginia. It's in central. They're being both literal and figurative on that one. History of this town. Farmville was founded eight years ago after the app game. No, I'm just kidding. Can you imagine? That was the truth. No. Farmville.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're on Mafia Wars New York.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You know how it goes. What's the one that LeBron James is always pushing lately? The Kingdom of Royal horseshit or some shit? I don't know. I have a crossword game that it always pops up on. And I'm like, damn it, go away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know how these app games are making so much money.

[James Petregallo]

They can pay, they can hire everybody. Everybody. That game has everybody. They have Jimmy Fallon playing like eight characters on one of them. Like, dude, he had to be there for like two days. That's like a bunch of costume changes. Like, how are you paying Jimmy Fallon? That was funny.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That was a whole weekend that that guy did to fucking advertise your stupid candy crush.

[James Petregallo]

He had to go back to the Tonight show after that. So Farmville was formed in 1798 but wasn't incorporated until 1912. So you know, they needed about 115 years to think about it just to make sure they wanted this to be real. There was started out with coal mining. John Flournoy was the first to mine coal near Farmville. He started in 1833 working on a seam which was two feet thick, just pulling coal out of it. In 1837 they granted a charter to the Prince Edward Coal Mining Company to mine and sell coal. They lasted until about the 1880s. That company, another coal pit in the 1880s was worked by at another property. The coal from this small pit was used to fuel a blacksmith shop that this guy had. So that. Yeah, he basically was like a subsistence coal farmer or coal miner. Not a farmer really. You know, coal. Coal farmer. Coal farmer. You know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Water.

[James Petregallo]

The coal crops are coming in good this year. They got that deep black to it this year. That's how you like it right there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fertilize the coal crop.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they come in a little too gray, a little too light. It ain't no good. But that shows it got proper water over the winter if it's nice. Nice shiny black color.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got a plane coming in the morning to dust the coal Crocker.

[James Petregallo]

Famous people. From here we have Vince Gilligan, the creator of Breaking Bad. Writer creator of Breaking Bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Vince Gilligan.

[James Petregallo]

Gilligan is his name. Little buddy. Little buddy himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like second. Vince Gill.

[James Petregallo]

Yep.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Vince Gill again.

[James Petregallo]

Also. Also from here. Again also from here. Lady of rage. Rocking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Roughing stuff with her afro puffs. And she's in Farmville, Virginia. That lady, that lady, she's from the Crip.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Man, that's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Apparently not. Apparently she's a farmer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's so funny.

[James Petregallo]

And Joseph E. Johnston, Confederate general during the American Civil War as well. That's more expected reviews of this town. Here's five stars. Okay. I love it in Farmville. It's a great place to live once a person retires. That's very specific. The people in this town are so loving and polite. The town of Farmville have a. The town of Farmville have a few good historical places you can attend to learn about history of that town. In Farmville they even have a college you can also attend called Longwood College. Yeah, Think about. There's like this is a college town and there's still only 7,000 people here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

That's wild. I myself thought about attending there as well. It's plenty of place you can choose to eat as well. They have a Walmart, a food line, an Arby's, Burger King, Huddle House, Granny B's, Applebee's, you know, the grandson of Granny Bees. Kfz, Double B's, Pizza Hut, Chick Fil, a Frosty Frog. Oh, they got a Frosty Frog. Frosty Frog, a Dairy Queen, and more. Oh, my God. Then they go on to name pawn shops, faxing places. Literally, like every business in town, they're.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Reading the phone book to us.

[James Petregallo]

We get it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This business, we get it.

[James Petregallo]

You guys have commerce. Enjoy. Five stars here. The employees were very polite and welcoming to the restaurant. They provided cups and plates for my meal. Five stars. Oh, God. They didn't just slap it on the table and tell you to eat it with your hands. Eat it with your hands and get the goddamn hell out of here. Okay? That's what they said to me. That's just a restaurant. That's not the town. So I don't get it. And then finally, one star. This person is right to the point. Everyone around here is lazy and sucks at their job. No cups or plates for that guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I love when people describe anything as sucks.

[James Petregallo]

Sucks. They're out of synonyms they don't even know they're out of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're so exhausted.

[James Petregallo]

No descriptors whatsoever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sucks.

[James Petregallo]

Just sucks. You can see that our restaurants in town compared to other towns get way worse reviews. The people just don't care. It's a town of zombies that America has left to die. Oh, Jesus.

[Jimmy Wissman]

7,000 zombies over their farm bill.

[James Petregallo]

Left to die. Things to do here. Oh, baby. The Heart of Virginia festival celebrates the arts, music, food and our community. Before you listen to this, before you come to the festival, we want to make sure you have all the information to make your visit one where you will want to come back. What a weird way to put that. Strange. Strange. They have bands here. And zombies talk, James. That's true. That's some lazy zombie talk right there. Under this, they have the Heart of Virginia Community Band we'll be playing, which they prepared to perform here under the direction of David Ganzert. The band performed several show tunes, traditional songs and patriotic pieces.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Great. A community band singing. Fucking doing Stars and Stripes forever makes me want to blow my brains out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Put your patriotic pigs back in your pants.

[James Petregallo]

Well, listen to this too. It's comprised of local musicians who gather to play, enjoy music and provide concerts at community events. Musicians with all Levels of experience are encouraged to join. No. And then here's some bands from a couple years ago because they don't have their upcoming schedule. So this is from 2022. They had Jordan Cooper. Yeah, sounds country to me. DJ play dat. Is that a jukebox or like just a fucking John Schenck? That sounds like a rock star. Let's see the Travis. Ray Reban. R E I G H. Ray.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

That's a terrible name.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Change it. I hate it.

[James Petregallo]

Good Lord. With special guest, Rebecca Moreland. Oh, well, now I'm in. I wasn't in before, but now. And I know she's going to be there. Starfire Live, the Righteous Roots. And then what is it? Oh, they got karaoke also. You can go to. So there you go. That said, let's get to some murder here. There's not going a lot going on in this town, so let's talk about some murder. Here we go. We're going to do. We're going to be in 2009 for this one. Not too much different than now, honestly. It's not. A lot has changed in 15 years when it comes to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, if the. If a car's still being manufactured, it's just in a different iteration.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a little more rounded now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It looks a little different.

[James Petregallo]

Looks a little different. Social. This is a transition period for social media and that's only important because of the story involved has to do with that partially. So this was a time when, like, people were just joining Facebook at the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I mean? And, like, Twitter was still like a very, like a tech nerd thing, I think it just came out. Instagram wasn't even around yet. So this is. This is the very end of MySpace. This is the last gasp of MySpace.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Timberlake bought it.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, that was long after. That was after.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right after that.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that was after it was dead, buried and gone already. This is when it was still hanging on, before Facebook completely buried it. And then obviously Twitter and Instagram piled on, did a dance and peed on the corpse of MySpace.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Peed on Justin Timberlake's wallet.

[James Petregallo]

Just pissed all over it, man. Good purchase, Justin. That's great. That's good. I'm going to purchase the rights to the Ford Edsel next year. That's what I'm going to do. I think it's due for a comeback. I really do. I know that didn't work out in the 50s, but I think I can make it happen now. So 2009, this is. Let's Talk about a man first. Mark Niederbrock. Mark Niederbrock, born March 20, 1959. He's 50 years old here in 2009. He's born in Benton, Illinois. He is raised in a nice family. He's the son of Jan and David Niederbrock. He was an Eagle Scout, did everything right. He liked photography a lot, which normally I'm suspicious of, Leary. I'm suspicious of men who like to take pictures. I'm just suspicious there's a sexual component to it. Always. I don't care if they're taking a picture of a tree. They want to fuck that tree. There's something weird about it. I don't know what it is. But if women are taking pictures, fine. If men are taking pictures, I'm like, you creepy fuck. You're just trying to lure women in to take pictures of them. So he went to study photography at the University of Illinois. So he actually went to study it, and he's actually interested in the science of it and everything. Later, though, he ends up wanting to be a minister and earned a Master of Divinity from. From Union Theological Seminary in Richmond, Virginia. Sure. Which. I don't know what that means. That's probably not accredited. I mean, it's probably fine to preach, but it's probably about the same as if someone signed, you are a preacher now on the back of a Denny's place. Matt, as far as. I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know what, like, preaching schools have for.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do they go, look at me.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you went to Union Theological. Oh, you're horseshit. Like, does that happen? Yeah, that's. Oh, he went to Union Theological. This guy knows his stuff. Like, I don't know how that works. So in 2003, he began serving as the pastor of Walker's Presbyterian Church in Hicksburg, which is in Appomattox County. Known as a real nice guy and a real approachable guy. Easy to dole out advice and to kind of, if you got a problem, he's a guy you can go to and expect a soft touch. Basically, everybody said he's not one of these guys that's like, that's because you're a moron. Anything like that. He's like, well, let's, you know, let's pray about it. Which is what you would want out of a guy in that position, I would hope, you know, rather than just telling you how you've wronged the Bible and how you're going to be going to hell if you don't fix it. So they remembered him as not only a spiritual leader, but as a good guy and a nice guy and a friend and liked to tell stories. And everyone said he was the exact guy you want leading a small congregation. This is like a 50 member church too. This is a very small, tiny. Yeah, as a tiny ass church. I mean, that's really.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're not even making any money.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's like the guy from the Julia Roberts movies in fucking. In gemstones there who shot Chad, that guy. He had like a church like that, like 50 people. Little tiny thing. You can picture it. So he's the pastor there now. He's married. He has a wife named Dr. Deborah Kelly. Oh, yes. She is born September 28, 1955, making her about 53 in this time, 54 years old. She's born in Richmond, Virginia. Her parents are Tom and Margaret Kelly. And she is all about academia, mentorship, that kind of shit here. She'll end up being an associate professor of sociology and criminal justice studies at Longwood University.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what she does here. Talks about shit that we talk about a lot. Kind of. She'd probably be a fan of the show maybe. Or hate our guts. One of the two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One of the two. It would never be right up the middle.

[James Petregallo]

No. Oh, no.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell yeah. Or fuck no.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck them. That's kind of the reaction we get. Hey, I love those guys. I hate those guys. There's really no in between. It's really odd.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We are podcast raiders.

[James Petregallo]

We're podcast grapefruit. Essentially. That's what we are. You never know. So they have a daughter named Emma who is 16 years old in 2009. Emma Kelly Niederbrock. Now, Emma, she's an interesting young lady here. She's a real dichotomy of personality, which a lot of kids are. And I find it normal when kids like very disparate things. You know what I mean? That's kind of how kids are. Sure. They can be into this, they can be into that. Adults, they get more honed to a certain thing that they like. So she is homeschooled since middle school so that she's a homeschool kid. She's real creative. She like. She wants to. She does like fashion design that she's into. She wants to do that. She also wants to do like hair stuff. She's very into music and very into online communities, which you would be if you're homeschooled since middle school, because you need.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And young. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And young you. That's the only way you could really get some social, you know, engagement. So she is equally kind of like a typical, like a typical high school girl. And then also she's rebellious at the same time, so it's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Which is.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the same sort of typical. Like she's real into like horror core rap, which we'll talk about. Yeah, she's real into shit like that. But she also really liked the Backstreet Boys and played soccer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I'm saying? So she's like a chick who's like drawing like horses on their honor Trapper Keeper, but the horses are like smoking joints, you know what I mean? Like, that's the kind of girl she is, which is cool. She's, I mean, you know, got different interests.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's got. Yeah, she's got different. Not just different interests, different. She might have different friends too, you know, like that, different groups.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she does. She goes by her screen name of Ragdoll on all online places she is. MySpace is where she's real big.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And a lot of the. Because this is like I said, if she's, you know, 16 years old at the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know, she's been doing MySpace for a few years now. It takes them a while to get out of that and into something else.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So cool. Those kids got so lucky. Like they got to code, like, you know, I mean, that generation got to code their own website. That was the most stress inducing website as a. As a fucking late teens, early 20 guy. That's.

[James Petregallo]

We didn't have to do that. That's what was great about it. We just went to school and. No, no, no, I meant when we were kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

We were teenagers. We didn't have to do that. We just. There wasn't. Didn't exist. You just hung out or you didn't. That was it. Now we of course did it later on, but. Because we're morons. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Because we wanted to fit in.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So Emma's parents, mark and Deborah, Dr. Debbie here and Pastor Mark, or I guess whatever you'd call Minister Mark and Dr. Debbie Deborah, they get divorced a little bit like they get divorced kind of at the end of 2008. So it's interesting though, they're very kind of like educated mature people. So when they get divorced, they don't like fight and throw poop at each other's houses and stuff like that. They make a plan to co parent and to do things together with the kids still that they act like adults where their child matters, which is nice, really. Good. And they have a very cooperative relationship. Everybody seems to be getting along here, which is terrific. Enter into this also Emma's friend Melanie. Melanie Grace Wells is her name. Melanie Wells. She's 18 years old, so a couple years older than Emma is. And she's staying with Emma in this time in 2009. They're. They're staying. She's from West Virginia, Melanie Wells. Her family had moved to West Virginia from Louisville, Kentucky just before she was going to go into high school. Melanie ended up dropping out and was trying to get her GED at this point. She had gone to Musselman High School and she was now staying with Emma and Emma's mother. Again, real into music, just like Emma is. Particularly likes heavy metal and horrorcore rap as well. So that's kind of how they get together. Yep. She's a real nice kid. Now her, her appearance looks like real kind of, you know, like kids are into weird music, you know what I'm saying? Like gothy looking appearance kind of. But she's a real nice kid, as a lot of those kids often are. That's just kind of a. So they can have a personality, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very welcoming and friendly.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. One friend said people assume she's a bad person because of how she looked, but she's actually an amazing person in general. So that's how she gets it. Now Emma meets a boyfriend on MySpace. The best place to find young love, obviously. So she, under her ragdoll Persona, Emma wrote several messages to a young man that she met here that we'll talk about. What brought them together was horrorcore rap music.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah. Horrorcore rap. Now they have an online romance all throughout late 2008, early 2009.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they're going out online for a year and they haven't met each other yet. Emma and Emma and. And this young man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And they're an item. They are.

[James Petregallo]

They're another. Together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. On their. On their. They got a MySpace status.

[James Petregallo]

It's in a relationship with this person. Yeah, for sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tagged. You bet.

[James Petregallo]

And the person she is having this relationship with is Richard Alden. Samuel McCroskey III.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My Christ. They are proud lineage.

[James Petregallo]

He is a horrorcore rapper.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's an actual rapper.

[James Petregallo]

Richard Alden. Samuel McCroskey III.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He is a short, chubby, ginger kid who horror core raps.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's a hatchet boy.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He goes by Sammy because Dick isn't the name you're picking. Yeah. He's born December 26, 1988. So he's about 20, a couple years. He's four years older than Emma is. Which? 20 and 16. No thanks. I don't like that. 19, 16. Is she a junior? He just graduated. We might be able to make that work. 20, you're in a different decade now. Fuck off. Yeah, we're not doing that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I had a friend, 16, dating a 21 year old kid. That's fucking weird, man.

[James Petregallo]

I knew a girl who was 15 who was dating a 22 year old in high school and the 22 and her parents were fine with it because he had like, came from a bad background. So like he's, you know, he didn't mature as much. I was like, he's 22, he's humping your fucking 15 year old. I don't give a shit what he's doing. That's horrifying. Yeah, fuck that. Now Sammy here goes by, he is a horrorcore rapper, goes by the handle of Syko Sam S Y K O Psycho Sam. Psycho Sam. Now we'll talk a little bit about the music too. Here he is originally, or he comes out to visit her from Castro County, California or Castro Valley, California. A little bit about his background. He has an older sister named Sarah and he was an average student, had some friends and that sort of thing. His mother said he took karate lessons, enjoyed jogging and watched horror movies with his family and never got detention in school. Oh, all's fine. Apparently that's it. He took karate and never got detention. I don't know what the problem is here. So she the mother. His mother was so protective of her son. This is too much, by the way, for your kids development here she worked as a teacher's aide from his kindergarten through his third grade years so she could be in the class to look over him the whole time, which is the point of school, is to send them away from you into another environment and they learn how to do that if you're there the whole time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Doesn't do anything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they're too attached emotionally. In 10th grade he started an independent study program, mostly working at home and just got a ged. So he just dropped out and got a ged. Now his sister Sarah said, quote, we weren't a Leave it to Beaver type of family. We each had our own space and did our own thing. That's the main vibe I'm getting off of their family is there doesn't seem to be anything real bad going on. Nobody's like coming home drunk and beating the shit out of everybody. But they're not close at all. They just seem to get home and go to their separate corners of the house and not really interact as a family.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which happens, you know what I mean? So she said that she. In high school, her and Sam were both teased and picked on because they were both overweight and had ginger hair. As she put it. That's her term. Redheads. Overweight redheads. That's a tough one for school.

[Unknown]

When the Moore family ditched cable Internet and switched to Zigli Fiber, they got so much more. Mr. Moore got more upload speed for next level gaming and livestreaming to the masses with reliable service. Mrs. Moore is no longer her family's IT guru, leaving her more time to stream games into overtime.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go.

[Unknown]

And young Mason Moore got more done quickly uploading HD product demos and video conferencing without freezing the numbers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look good. Brad, you're on mute.

[Unknown]

Switch from cable Internet to Ziply Fiverr and get more of what you love for $65 less per month than cable@ziply fiverr.com.

[Zoe Saldana]

Hi, I'm Chris Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number. Thousands of people try to call. You talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's gonna happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, Somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's gonna happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous.

[James Petregallo]

She said it broke our confidence and we grew up with a lot of insecurities. I always fought back, but Sammy was way too passive. He didn't say anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He just took it.

[James Petregallo]

Hardcore rapper.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess there's probably some sort of.

[James Petregallo]

Rage built up inside.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the. What's the stereotypical fat ginger nickname?

[James Petregallo]

You know, I mean, I don't know. There has to be. I mean, I don't know, something. Hey, Fat Wendy. I don't know what you call these people. I don't know. I don't know what. There's not a specific name for that. So his sister described him as. As quiet and insecure individual. He often got bullied and that's what led him to dropping out of high school. The sister said he dropped out because he got bullied all the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then rap about fantasies of chopping.

[James Petregallo]

Up your fucking classmates later on. Yeah, that's. That's going to come in. So they both drop out of Tennyson High in Hayward, California. Then they went to Hayward High and dropped out again. Hey, hey. Word perfect. Dropping out. She said we both fell into the wrong crowd. But high school was just uncomfortable for Sammy. He just was. He was just unhappy. He couldn't do it. She said he spent much of his time in his bedroom, which was decorated with like, Basically Friday the 13th hockey masks he had all over the place. Yeah, shit like that. And he would do web design and he liked to do music production, like to make beats and shit like that. So their neighbors here, the McCroskey family, neighbors, said they never noticed anything troubling about him, his parents or his older sister. They said he appeared to be a loner. Always wore a black hoodie. Basically just had a black hoodie on and was kind of doing his thing. Which, by the way, is not the best. It's not the best color. If you're super pale and ginger and you wear black all the time. You just look redder and paler at that point. Yeah. Work on your color schemes. Green, I hear, works for them a lot. The Irish, they wear green. Works for them well a lot of times. Matches their eyes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Apricot thing is not good either.

[James Petregallo]

That's better than fucking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is it?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what is going on here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That Matrix guy. Who knows?

[James Petregallo]

Who knows? His dad is a construction worker who plays guitar in a band called S.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And M. What is going on with this family?

[James Petregallo]

It comes from his sister Sarah is a drummer who played in a heavy metal band.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they like music. We don't have the name of that, but we do have. Sarah said that he was very good at making music and he would spend endless hours in his room doing music shit. She said it was our way of escaping reality and finding a way to cope and relax.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's what music's supposed to be.

[James Petregallo]

Now, his whole thing. Psycho Sam is his alter ego here. And he speaks of the typical horrorcore rap shit. Death mutilation, killings, and now horrorcore rap. By the way, you go, what the fuck is that? Okay, I don't. The best way I can describe it to me, the. The. Well, I would say the best of the genre would be Gravediggers. I think they're the. Well, they're the best. They're the best.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I guess you could. I guess you could lop Hopson in there, I guess.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Brother lynch was kind of like that too.

[James Petregallo]

But to me, like, Gravediggers was the most. Like, that was like the first two, in my mind. They came out like 95. I mean, that was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And that was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, I guess suicide and gangster rapper, right?

[James Petregallo]

Diary of a Man. Yeah, that's what I. Yeah. Whereas this was like Graveyard Chamber was the name of a song, you know. Two Cups of Blood is the name of a song of Graveyard 36 Mafia.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Might be that too.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Like, they tried to, like in a lot of articles, they tried to put the ghetto boys into that. And I'm like, that. That's not that. But they literally tried to lump ghetto boys because they had like one song that was. And it wasn't even Mine's playing tricks on me. It was something else. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But I mean, I guess after they kind of did their own things when Ghost Face or when Scarface was doing his own thing and. Yeah, with Bill, when he was doing his own thing, he was kind of that, though, like a Phantom of the Opera album. That was weird.

[James Petregallo]

It wasn't as to the point as Grave Diggers, though. I mean, Grave Diggers was Two cups of Blood. Fucking tripping suicide. Diary of a Madman. Chewed my fucking arm off and made an escape. But it was. Yeah, but this was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Mafia had a song about being buried alive.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but this was like I'm being trapped in a. Have you heard Grave Diggers?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not. Not recently. I don't know any of their lyrics, that's for sure.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, okay. Yeah, it's. It's. It's way. Yeah, it's exactly this genre of what it's kind of supposed to be. There's no songs on the thing about just hanging out with your friends or like, you know, your. Yeah, you met a girl. There's no songs like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's all about no Blowjob Betty.

[James Petregallo]

Be the Bushwick Dutch master rapper. I love black women and I hate fucking crackers. That's the. That's the most. That's a. It's a great fucking line. That's the most non, like, horror ish line in the whole album. That's just a guy dogging some shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, I guess there's probably a lot of hardcore rappers that we don't even know.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, I'm sure so. Because they suck so. Right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Because it's Sound Cloud.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's stupid. Nobody gives a shit.

[James Petregallo]

Grave Diggers is fucking awesome. That shit is great. I listen to that shit. It's so good. So it's rza. I mean, it's fucking rza. Made all the beats, and it's his shit, and he's rapping on it. So anyway, in his stuff, he's just. He's been rapping that long. He started rapping in, like, 2008, for Christ's sake. Here. So his sister said, here, quote, much of horrorcore rap is taking you through the mind of a killer and their point of view. Psycho Sam was just a stage name. It wasn't his alter ego. And she said also, he wasn't obsessed, because some people said he was obsessed with serial killers, especially David Berkowitz.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

But she said, no, he wasn't at all. That's ridiculous. On his MySpace page, he posed with a. He had like, a skull with a bandana covering his face, trying to look tough and shit like that. He's got certain lyrics. Oh, yeah, here's some lyrics of his, and I'm going to read them in a Shakespearean way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Amazing shit.

[James Petregallo]

This is from the track entitled My Dark side by Psycho Sam. All right. You're not the first. Just to let you know, I've killed many people and I kill them real slow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

It's the best feeling Watching their last breath Stabbing and stabbing till there's nothing left. And that's a lyric from that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's good.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's. He's got the gift. He really does. Next up is a song entitled I Kill People. For Real. Yeah, this is Go. We have, like, a good chunk of lyrics here. So here we go. Night. I was the murderous rage but now I got to get rid of the bodies before the corpses start to something. I can't read what that is. Get. I don't know. Get about. Welcome to my dark side yeah, the other side. That's Side through my dark side the dark side yeah, the dark side the place you die where is that? The dark side, the dark side the evil voices they're in my head they want to see me kill they want to see me dead yeah Call me a demon or call me the ice the icy I don't know what that is I am here to take your life and I'll take it twice Kill you once I'll bring you back to life as I'm Better to do it again for another sacrifice Questions? What the fuck? Possibly even thrice Burn to the ground Burn to the ground let's all burn the churches to the ground Burn it to the ground Burn it to the ground the ground let's Burn all the churches to the ground the ground we kill, we die it's true Sick minds we think alike we kill on the dark side on the dark side oh, yeah Reel into John Cafferty. That's what this guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's a John Cafferton.

[James Petregallo]

It's John Cavity's Beaver Brown Band, for Christ's sake.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And Eddie and the Cruisers.

[James Petregallo]

Eddie and the Cruisers, exactly. The soundtrack. And they also. One of the things is a little Gravediggers ish to me as well, here. Yeah, Yeah. I can see where he's going, which he's trying to be like a Grave Digger esque type of thing. But those guys were way better than him, is the difference. I mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. And, you know, that whole genre is as interesting as it can be because you can be dark and. I don't know, it's very. It's just. It's emo rap, that kind.

[James Petregallo]

But Gravediggers is not like that at all. It's aggressive and it's funny, too. Like, suicide's fucking hilarious. It's a funny song. It's all about different crazy ways to kill yourself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right?

[James Petregallo]

The one kid wants to kill himself because what is it? He fucking thinks he's adopted or whatever. Cause he said mom and dad are white and you're dark as ink. They say maybe you're Sicilian, but you hate lasagna and the pizza man. So you're not. So you're upset at your parents, you want to kill yourself. So all these different scenarios. It's fucking hilarious. It's so funny.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, that's kind of what ICP was trying to do until they started, like, feuding with people.

[James Petregallo]

And then it was stupid, but they're like. I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They were trying to be funny, but then they. Then they dress dumb, too.

[James Petregallo]

These were. That's the thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Can't you just do that with just your face, man?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. If you look at the COVID of the Grave Diggers album, they look terrifying. Yeah, they look like. They look like. You'd be terrible. Whereas I'm not scared of ICP at all. Like, they look ridiculous.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Keep my kids from them.

[James Petregallo]

But I definitely shield my children from them. But I'm not physically scared of them, even though they're both gigantic lunatics.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One of them is just a big fat dork, but the other one's the scary one because that guy's actually clinically insane.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You want to stay away from that one.

[James Petregallo]

So other tracks on his page here on his MySpace page included. Sick in the Brain. That's not a Cypress Hill takeoff at a I hate this world and up in flames. Okay. On his website, he posted videos and pictures of a grave where a cross and miniature American flags had been turned upside down. This is, by the way, a dead marine's grave that he's defiling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He really did it.

[James Petregallo]

He said, we defiled the grave. And then lightning struck seconds ago. I think we were being warned. And he's laughing in the video saying that, dude, what the fuck? He's just trying to be a jackass on social media.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just trying to.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's pioneering the social media jackass phase of our fucking social.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Starting face Instagram trolling. Yep, that's MySpace trolling is what he was doing.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he'd be a. He'd be wonderful on Twitter. Boy, I'm sure he'd. He would love that shit for the next 10 years. So spring of 2009, his parents broke up. Apparently this Sam really devastated Sam, Even though he's 20 years old and really shouldn't really matter that much to him. But I guess his father asked the mother to move out, which is different. You don't hear that very often. So. September 7th, 2009. Okay. On MySpace here, Emma is posting on MySpace. How excited she is for Sam to come visit her at her house in Virginia. He is planning a trip to Virginia to see his online girlfriend here. So she said, the next time you check your MySpace, you'll be at my house in all caps. Oh, yeah, that's cute. He. And then she also wrote. She was basically had a countdown of the days until he got there going. And she said, you are my one and only everything also. Yeah, very hardcore of them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So there is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's romance in every.

[James Petregallo]

Every. Every genre, man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just funny.

[James Petregallo]

September 12, 2009, he is. He came to visit them. He landed in Virginia. They all end up in Michigan on September 12th. This is Emma, Melanie, her friend from West Virginia, and Dr. Deborah here are all take. And Sam, they're all going up to Dr. Deborah's driving them all up to Southgate, Michigan to go to the Strictly for the Wicked Horrorcore Music festival, which I'm sure mom just loved. I'm sure she had a great time all day at that place. Just really had a good time. Although she's into psychology and like criminal stuff like that. That might be a good place to check in, honestly. That might be.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She could probably get a lot of work.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she can get a little bit of work there in the background. So yeah, this was outside of Detroit here. Southgate, Michigan. Now, there's a guy named Andres Schremm and he owns a independent horrorcore music label, little record label named Serial Killin Records.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

In New Mexico, where all the good horrorcore, where all the good rap comes from, obviously. So he performs under the name Sicktanic.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. And basically he saw Sam, Melanie and emma all on September 12th at this festival. I think he's like one of the main people of the festival, like help putting it on and shit. Now, Serial Killing Records here, the label's roster includes such stalwart artists as Razakel, Stitchmouth. We all know old Stitchmouth there. Stitch Mouth, Comatose with a K, obviously. Concrete, two clips with a Z, of course. And Bloodshot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've heard of Comatose. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, interesting. So this is the skr. The Serial Killer Records was the organizer of the Strictly for the Wicked festival here. And. And Shrimp, the guy who runs it, said that. He said, these people aren't violent people. It's all about the music.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. We're just saying things.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, you look at the music we do, and it's kind of harsh and somewhat brutal at times, but there's a different side of life that people aren't normally accustomed to. And being an artist, I think it's important to see both sides of life. Yes. For the art of it. Sure. Shrim said about Sam, he was brilliant at web design, graphics and all that. I commissioned him to do our website and to do some graphic works for us. So he did some shit for them. Now Melanie was also excited for all of this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Her. Her handle on MySpace is Lil Demondog. Lil Demon Dog. Her page makes references to this concert and excitedly says that there was after parties in multiple hotel rooms we were going to and hanging out. And she wrote on. Oh, this is not from this time, from another time, another post, she wrote, I can't wait to get drunk with like five views. So that's nice. She also. She describes herself as an skr. Unholy disciple. So a fan of Serial Killing Records. There we go. She also calls herself a believer in LaVeyan Satanism, Anton LaVey's Satanic, all that shit. She notes also there that McDonald's cigarettes, caffeine and drugs keep me alive and healthy. Yeah, that's the food pyramid you learn about in elementary school. That's what it is. McDonald's cigarettes, caffeine and drugs. Well, I mean, really, if I remember correctly, the food pyramid, the base of it was. Was Caffeine and drugs, I believe. And then you built it up from there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, eventually at the tip top, peaking.

[James Petregallo]

At the tip top at McDonald's, obviously. So that's what I thought.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just really brings it all together at such a time in all of our lives when we all did all of that.

[James Petregallo]

When that was. Yeah, life. She lists her interests and these are very relatable as blood and gore. Open graves, dead people and animals. It doesn't say dead animals. They're live animals, I'm assuming. And she also says, I'm a sinner and I repent not. She's got a little online character that she's got there. She also has a poem that she put on her page here where it's basically a country song, but not a country song. It's fantasy about killing a cheating boyfriend.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, killing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You're screaming and bleeding, lying on the floor. I can't help it. I'm aching for more gore. Slowly I make an incision in your main artery. I feel the blood rush gush all over my body. It's going deeper and deeper. Your life is slowly fading. Your eyes roll back and your body starts shaking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, I'm terrified.

[James Petregallo]

I am. Wow. I am terrified.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So horny. I'll be right over.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, I can't wait to get over there. Yeah. Oh, all right then. So they all head back to Deborah's house, where Emma and Deborah live here. After the concert, they all go back to Virginia. And this is at 505 First Avenue in Farmville. The house is a four bedroom, two bath, 2,600 square foot house. So comfortable, Nice, comfortable house. And I've seen it, the yard, it looks very comfortable. Built in 1924, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Now, so apparently, okay, some. At some point during the festival, Emma was sending text messages. Now, I don't know if it was to Sam or two other people or wherever the fuck the text messages were going, but apparently Sam was getting upset about it. I don't know why. I don't know. I mean, who knows what goes on in the mind of a young horrorcore rapper? So we don't know these things. So I guess as they got home, he started to become more and more angry and all of that. Somebody said later on. I think he had a certain expectation about what that relationship with Emma Niederbrock was going to be like after a year on the computer. Yeah, he thought he'd get in and start plowing away right away, I think is what it is. He was like, oh, we're just gonna.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Be fucking gonna be a river of jizz. Always.

[James Petregallo]

Always. They said it did not turn out to. To be what he had imagined it was going to be. I guess he felt rejected because he thought they were in an exclusive relationship. But I guess seeing her, what she was doing, he thought maybe that she was like, talking other guys or whatever. Who the fuck knows? She's 16 years old. I mean, what are we talking about? You live in California. Relax, chief. You know, so Thursday, September 17th, 2009 comes next. Okay, so it was all back on the 12th. Is the concert and all that on the 17th here. Police are called after Melanie's mom in West Virginia calls the local police in Farmville to say, hey, it's been days since I've heard from my daughter, from Melanie, who's staying with these people. Can you go to the house and see if they're around? Basically make sure there's not a carbon monoxide leak or something. So, yeah, they go to the home and Sam answers the door. Yeah, hello, officers. They say, hello. He says, oh, yeah, The. The. The girls, all of them, Deborah and the two daughters, they all went to the movies. They were going to see some chick flick. I didn't want to see it. So I'm here, they're there, and I don't know. Be home in a couple hours if you want to come back. So the cops, like, all right, Bridget Jones is out. Oh, God, they can't wait to see it. They're seeing Twilight fucking whatever. So, yeah, they're seeing that cracks. I'm trying to think, 2009, what was out?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't even know.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I can't think of it. So the investigators are there, like, okay, sounds good. We made contact with a person. He said, they're gone. What else are we supposed to do here? So they leave now. Friday, September 18, 2009. This is the last time Sam is going to log into his MySpace page for a minute here. And his status, he listed as out of town, and he listed his mood as determined. Sure. Okay. Now the next day, the Friday, when he's listing his mood as determined, the. Melanie's mom in West Virginia still has not heard from her. So she calls the police again and says, still haven't heard from my daughter. Can you guys go back again?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, and here is a quote from one of the police spokesmen here. Quote, when officers arrived at the house, they noticed a distinct odor that they recognized as possibly being decaying bodies. They made entry and observed three bodies on the floor.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Three.

[James Petregallo]

Three. Three women on the floor all off in the downstairs bedroom. All of them unrecognizably bludgeoned about the head and face. Real. Just can't even recognize them. Complete mess. Wow. Then they get a search warrant because they walk in, see that, go, oh shit and run out, get a search warrant, they go back in. When they search all around the house, they go to the second floor and in an upstairs bedroom they find a fourth body.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh no.

[James Petregallo]

And it's a man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

And they end up identifying them as Deborah, Melanie and Emma downstairs. And Mark is upstairs, dad, Emma's dad, he's there. He's dead upstairs also bludgeoned. Unrecognizably, horribly bludgeoned. So that is. They're like, where the fuck did this guy come from?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And that's it. Those are the only people on the scene are four dead people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody alive in the house.

[James Petregallo]

No Sam at all. So the police sergeant said it's a horrific crime. It's hard to imagine what these people must have gone through. They said Farmville has very little violent crime. He said it's a close knit community and everybody knows everybody. It's just devastating. They said, would you have a possible motive why somebody would do this? And he said, I wish I knew. That's all he said. So they recovered several possible weapons from the home. Most notably, and what turns out to be the murder weapons is a ball peen hammer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And a wood splitting maul.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very horrorcore weapons.

[James Petregallo]

Brutal. Yeah, terrible. Those are horrifying. Middle ages, you know, torture weapons. That's brutal. Absolutely brutal. And a maul is like a big ax if you don't know. So that's what they found here. They were also removed from the home. A meat cleaver and a red stained knife. But they don't believe that either of those were used in the killings because there's no knife wounds to these bodies. It's just bludgeoned. They've just been bludgeoned. So the next day, Saturday, September 19, 2009, obviously they'd like to talk to Sam.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, Sammy, what's going on?

[James Petregallo]

But they don't really know that Sam is in existence at this point. The cops that show up and find dead people, they knew they talked to a kid there the day before, but they didn't know what, you know, he might have just been house sitting. They have no idea what the hell his connection was. So turns out also Mark's 2000 Honda car is missing as well. So they figure out that Sam took off in the car. Okay. And a Sheriff's deputy after he. This is wild. He crashes the car. He had to crash that Honda for a Pulp Fiction reference here. So a sheriff's deputy encounters him, has no idea about any of this shit, issues him a summons for driving without a license and sends him on his merry way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They have not. Okay, I haven't put it. Oh, wow.

[James Petregallo]

They don't know they're looking for him yet. And this is the day after the bodies are found. So he. Yeah, that's that. So they. And the sheriff's sergeant who talked to him said that they didn't think much of someone else, someone driving someone else's vehicle. Because it's a college town, most of these kids have parents, somebody else's car. So it's very normal to find a 20 year old kid in the car not registered to him. It's just real normal. As long as it's not reported stolen, it's fine. But they towed the car because he didn't have a license. Now, the tow truck driver dropped Sam off at a nearby gas station and said that he wasn't acting strangely. He said, I just asked him where he was from and all, and he said he was from California. I said, what in the world are you doing down here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Great question.

[James Petregallo]

Middle of fucking nowhere. He's, I'm looking for fucking lady of Rage. Do you know where she is? I'd like her on my next album. No. He said, trying to get a feature. Trying to get something in. Yeah, a duet with Afro Puffs would be nice for me, I think. He said, my girlfriend lives down here. And so at that point, the tow truck driver said he could see what appeared to be hickeys all over his neck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you know, we're suckers around here.

[James Petregallo]

And he asked, he said, jesus, what happened to your neck? Yeah, and he said, my girlfriend did that. And they both chuckled. You know. Yeah, Teenage love. He's. He immediately put a Bob Seger song on the tow truck stereo. And he was like, yeah, there we go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This ought to feel right at home.

[James Petregallo]

This ought to do it for me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Points of a wrong way, up high. They don't be that way for a long time, son.

[James Petregallo]

Not for long. Take advantage while you can, boy. And he's like, what are you talking about? So the tow truck driver said, she was about to eat you up, wasn't she? And they just chuckled about it together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God, how gross.

[James Petregallo]

They said they had no reason at the time to be suspicious of him. He's just a kid that didn't Have a license. Happens all the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Being a normal kid now.

[James Petregallo]

He left a weird phone message for his family after this, saying, I love you guys and saying a bunch of weird shit. And the sister Sarah said that that was completely uncharacteristic of Sam because they're not a Leave it to Beaver kind of family. Again, she says, so we didn't call each other and say we loved each other and shit. Yeah. So 11:30am on Saturday, this is when the police now find out they're looking for this guy. And they're like, oh, shit, we had that guy. We gave him a ticket. Shit. So they find him at the Richmond Airport.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where's he going?

[James Petregallo]

He's got a ticket for California.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right the fuck back home is.

[James Petregallo]

Right the fuck back home. They find him asleep in the baggage claim area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's got a while.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. They rouse him in the baggage, which is not where you hang out before a flight, which is probably why he was hanging out there, right? Yeah. So that he gives them ID and doesn't resist. Talks to them peacefully. Goes peacefully. When they get to the police station here, a reporter asks him how he committed the crime. You know, they shout questions. He said, jesus told me to do it. Which is a bad answer. Yeah, just a bad. Don't say anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're being perp locked. Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. And so they search through Mark's car. They find, they say, an assortment of pills, a folding knife, and items from a satchel that he had with him when he was arrested at the airport as well. Computer and phone, electronic shit like that. They believe that he spent the. That he's been hanging out at the airport just for however long. So they also seek records for phone records and all kinds of shit like that. They got text messages and everything. So they know that he was talking to Emma and that's where he was and all that kind of shit. Sunday, September 20, 2009. Now he's in custody, police custody. His MySpace messages start being deleted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. What is that about? Someone accessed his MySpace page and deleted a shitload of messages, including pretty much all of them from Emma.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Cutting off all electronic ties. That is. That is interesting. One of the deleted messages from Emma said, quote, I know my mind works weird because I always expect the worst, but I'm trying so hard not to with you because I know you'd never hurt me. That's nice. So they're going to charge him with murder, robbery and auto theft here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Seems interesting. And he said that there's Anyway, so he's charged with all of this. Robbery, grand larceny. He's later gonna be charged with six counts of capital murder. Six. Wow. And four people now. Remember the serial killing records there guy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, this is not something from the Sam I know. This is not something that I would ever, ever in a million years envision him doing. You would never, ever imagine that kid even being a suspect. If he is found to be guilty, I would be 100% shocked.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Sarah, too, the sister said that she thought there was no way her brother could be the prime suspect in any of this. She said, but it hit when investigators called, and she became overwhelmed after seeing the reports all over the Internet and tv. She said, I just fell to my knees. I couldn't see, I couldn't talk. I failed as his big sister. Well, it's not your job to raise him. That's the thing. You're his big sister. That's not your job. She said, since then, death threats started being left on her cell phone voicemail. So it's not just him. His family is getting threats, too, which is pretty shitty, honestly. She said also that sheriff's deputies came over in California to her house to search it, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

She said they tore the place up. Everything is on the floor. They took house phones, computers, and anything relevant to the situation. They even took bab books, which is strange. So Sam is put in jail at the Piedmont Regional Jail. He's on suicide watch. And his lawyer, because he's given a public defender, said that sleep isn't easy for him. Oh, that's good. He said he's still feeling remorse about this whole thing. It's a bad situation for everybody. What a shitty lawyer. First of all, number one, you're a terrible lawyer. He hasn't pleaded guilty yet or anything. You're already talking about remorse. Shut the fuck up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck, man? Help the kid out.

[James Petregallo]

You might as well tell the kid to just talk to the cops. He can't do any worse for himself than you're doing for him. So this guy said that he remains in jail and he has had no visitors except for his attorneys, although he's been in contact with family members and all of that. Now what the fuck happened? What the. Sam initially did not cooperate with police, and all he put out there was, Jesus told me to do it. But eventually he cracks and tells the story. With a lawyer like that, not surprising that he would decide to confess everything. So he said late in the evening of September 14th or early in the morning of September 15th, late night. He was drinking beer, smoking weed, and quote, may have taken some painkillers when he got. He was pissed off about Emma. And so he said about 3am he went around and killed all three of them as they slept. They have no defensive wounds on them whatsoever. He just did this while they fucking slept. He killed Melanie first, who was on a sofa on a first floor den. It's like a guest room type of situation. Then went upstairs and killed Deborah in an upstairs bedroom. Now you're noticing that's not where these people were found.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, they're in the bottom floor. He drug him downstairs.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And then finally Emma was in her downstairs bedroom and he went and killed her last.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which is odd because he seems to be the target of her ire, but he goes for her last, which is like, if I'm eating, I'll eat like my vegetables first and whatever. I save my meat for last because I like it the most. So you know what I mean? Like, maybe he's saving, killed, killed them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

First as to have as much time as possible so nobody could interrupt it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but the weird part is he didn't like do anything different with Emma. He struck each victim multiple times with the mall. No one woke up. There's no defensive wounds. I mean, when the first shot is to your head with a mall while you're sleeping, there's not a lot of. Now the thing is, Mark came over the house on September 17th about 5pm just to check on everybody because they have a good relationship. And he was just checking in, seeing how Emma was doing and everything when he came in, apparently looking around. Hey, everybody, what's going on? Sam jumped out with the mall and attacked him in the living room and later moved Mark and Melanie's bodies into Emma's bedroom and attempted to clean up the mess. So. But he ends up, Mark ends up being on an upstairs floor, so he ends up changing his mind. I don't know what's going on here. At some point he used a digital camera to record a video of himself as well. In the video, he indicated he knew he had to pay for what he'd done and also thought it talked about suicide, which is interesting. So, yeah, killed Melanie first, then Deborah, then Emma, and then two days later kills Mark. So he sat in the house with dead bodies for multiple days. My God, multiple days. Which is horrifying. The wood splitting mall is about £8, by the way. It's heavy. That's a lot to get hit in the head with. And the cop said after Talking to Sam, quote, he said that's what he picked up. And he felt like because of the weight of it, that nobody would suffer. He's like, well, this will kill him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Quick clobber ahead.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Jesus Christ. That's fucking crazy. So, yeah, he recorded his video, which the camera was recovered from his backpack at the airport. So they got that. So he had no way out of this. I mean, he was in a video with dead people saying how he just killed them. Now he called police. At one point, Sam did called the police to come and check on noises in the basement because he said Mrs. Wells told him to Melanie's mom. Okay, which is crazy. He explained during one of the many conversations he and Melanie's mother had, which involved fictitious stories of where they went and all that kind of shit. She told him to call the police since he felt uncomfortable because there was noises in the basement. So the cops saw him three times after he killed these people and never got him. Now, the college, by the way, the state police are involved in this. And Longwood University did not issue an alert because they were like, did they issue an alert at the college? And they said no, because they said, not only on campus, but even in Farmville, it just doesn't happen here. So we didn't expect this was like a serial killer. So we just didn't bother telling the kids about it. Okay, so there's an occult idiot. By the way, every one of the. If you have a case like this, this is a chance for attention from some fucking old gray jackass who knows nothing about what he's talking about, but has wrote three books because he did like some correspondence course in 1983, like the. Like the West Memphis Three Idiot Guy. This is Dave Rimer, Rimmer, I'm call him Rimmer R I M E R, but I'm calling him Rimmer, Don Rimmer. He described the scene as a slaughterhouse. The crime scene. He's a police occult. Taxpayers give him money. This idiot. He spent 33 years as a detective with the Virginia beach police and now teaches police departments around the country about occult crimes. And he knows nothing about what he's talking about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

He said he was called in because an expert on the symbols found in the music the teens listened to. So they wanted to get his opinion. He said, my end goal is to educate parents, law enforcement, every discipline on the dangers of the occult. He said what those invest investigators stepped into a slaughterhouse. They stepped into a slaughterhouse on Friday night about murder, about killing, about all kinds of ritual Abuse. Anyone could take a look at that. And that's the world she was interested in. Meaning about the music. He says that there are parents that just believe it's a fad. It's just the music. It's just a game, just a movie. But I call it Russian Roulette. You're an idiot. We can't take that chance. No, I'm sure. Yeah. So then there's another occult idiot named Paul Calcagno. And he said that. That Sam was part of a satanic cult who engaged in ritual music videos and idolized the son of Sam. He said. He describes meeting Sam in 2006. This guy, he said, as a result of my personal experience with Sam and his affiliated horrorcore rap artists, I believe that New Mexico rap label Serial Killing Records is behind the grisly mass murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They did it.

[James Petregallo]

They sent him out there to murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, they're calling hits.

[James Petregallo]

That is fucking crazy. He said, basically, I was an actor in one of their music videos. In the video, they killed a priest, a rabbi, a Muslim cleric, and the Pope. Well, yeah, you don't want to discriminate. That's. You kill them all. That's how it works. Well, you can just kill one. It looks like you hate one religion. You gotta show it's everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't write them. So we call them.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, and now Sam McCroskey killed a pastor in real life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Mark. In the video, Sick Tanic tells the clergyman one by one or kills them one by one by slitting their throats, masturbates onto a magazine and is sexually serviced by a chained up woman. Okay, interesting. According, according to Calcagno, the video is actually a satanic ritual itself. The filmmakers were all members of the Church of Satan. They showed me red membership cards. Oh, my God. He also says that there's a connection because Melanie's screen name, Little Demon Dog is a connection because that's a reference to David Berkowitz and all of that. This is, dude, the dog tells her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What to do, or she tells other people what to do because she's.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And also, he says Serial Killing records had Sick Tanic joked that one of them were to go out and pull a Manson, that they should blame it on Jesus and then saying, sam said, Jesus told me to do it. So the prosecutors, on the other hand, when they talk to them, you know, people who actually have to present a case in court, they say had zero percent to do with horrorcore music. And their case to the jury would be more upped if it did, but it doesn't. They said. Nope. Just a fucking chubby ginger who didn't like rejection, that's all. Just a dipshit who, who put himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Out there dealing with the pains of.

[James Petregallo]

Not enough experience with relationships. Doesn't. Didn't know how to take rejection. That's all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's just to be a young man being told no.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Just an angry little shitty kid. Maybe if his mom didn't go to fucking school with him every day for the first four years it would have been better.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But maybe she should have told him no more.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, that's it. So they said the other three were just wrong place, wrong time. He wanted to kill Emma and they happened to be there. That was it. And he didn't know what to do. That's why he hung out there. And that's how Mark ended up getting killed. Now he's eligible for the death penalty here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

In Virginia a person can be, as you say, six capital murders for four bodies. The rule is in Virginia a person can be charged with capital murder when there are certain aggravating circumstances such as the murder of a police officer, murder in commission of a rape or robbery, or more than one murder in a three year period. So I'd say four in two days qualifies.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. A defendant can then be charged, tried and convicted of more than one count of capital murder for the same murder. It's an aggravator type of situation here. Each of the capital murder indictments against him charges him with killing multiple people within three years. All right, so September 2010, are we going to trial? What's happening here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got a plea, right? There's nothing to go to court over this.

[James Petregallo]

He confessed like three weeks before his trial was to start too, which is real bad negotiating position for you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. You're handing them all the cards.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So the plea agreement comes together and the prosecutor said over the course of the last eight weeks we've met with the various family members and went through the case with them. Them, they said all of the victims families supported the decision to get have a plea agreement instead of going to trial and seeking the death penalty. So there you go. They said the family played a large role in going over specifics in the case. So he's going to plead guilty. Two counts of first degree murder and two counts of capital murder. Two counts of first degree murder are for, for Emma and two counts of capital murder of Melanie and Mark. So Deborah, I don't know if hers is in charge I don't know what's going on, but there you go. So during sentencing, his dumb shit lawyer said that he spent a long day and a half with the bodies of his girlfriend and the other two. And the lawyer said, I think he was just contemplating. He was contemplating the severity of what he would done, what he had done and just, just didn't know what to do about it. The judge says, I know exactly what to do about this. You, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison without the possibility of parole. Yeah, a couple of times, by the way. Over a few times.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're never getting out, man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you're getting nothing. Three. Three without possibility of parole. Done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's so young.

[James Petregallo]

He's 20.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

21 by now. On his way out of the courthouse, he smirked as he walked toward the van. I have a picture I'll post on the social media of him smirking. But his attorney said no, he wasn't being proud of what he did. He's just friendly. That's all he said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Make your acquaintance.

[James Petregallo]

That's all he said. I think it's both a relief and he's thinking about the rest of his life. So that comes out and smirks at the camera.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, the thing is, James, when you're 20, you're so young, you're still used to mom saying smile. Yes, that's probably why he did it.

[James Petregallo]

Probably why he saw cameras and just smiled. He is so damn young. Oh, that's funny. He said that his client expressed remorse and understood the severity of it. He said, quote, he said how bad he feels about it. He's left families without their loved ones. We have four people dead here. He's not proud of that. No. He said that he allowed his anger to get in the way. He said this became an issue regarding his perception that his girlfriend wasn't being loyal to him. Him. It was a deterioration of the relationship. And he said, four bodies is pretty compelling evidence. Also, this is the defense attorney saying, well, why'd you take a plea deal? He goes, four bodies is pretty compelling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We didn't have anything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, I don't know. So the prosecutor here said, yeah, the other three people were killed. Wrong place, wrong time. The prosecutor described Sam as a closed off individual. There's no history of violence or any bad acts in his life at all. He's never gotten in trouble before.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

For anything. Yeah. He said he's going to prison for the rest of his life. What it really means is death in prison. Hopefully it'll bring some measure of Closure to the family. It won't go on for years in the appellate system with no resolution in some of their lifetimes. So which death penalty would have now in prison his offender ID is 143-4584.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He got one four three in the beginning. God dang.

[James Petregallo]

143 he is at the Red Onion State Prison. Sounds great. Sounds gross, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

In pound Virginia.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll bet that is.

[James Petregallo]

That is amazing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He is in pound town pound town.

[James Petregallo]

Now murderabilia.com yeah they there's a letterhouse one of his letters was for sale where he was asking for photographs of two of his victims explaining I'd like to put him in photo albums for memories. Lol.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fucking scumbag.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now the prosecutor here said that in the 12 plus years I've been monitoring this industry this is the first time I've ever run across a particular defendant requesting pictures of his victims in murderabilia type shit. He said I thought that part of his sentence structure where the death penalty was taken off the table he would not publish or produce anything that remotely had anything to do with the homicides. It's disconcerting when you think of the victim. Think of it from a victim survivor's perspective. And they said they're going to look into the matters and they said they have no further comment. What else are you going to do to him? He's in life without. That's the problem. What can you do to him at this point?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He didn't get the pictures, right?

[James Petregallo]

No, I would think not. Yeah, his lawyer, the dumb one said that he'd be pretty disappointed if Sam started to do that. You know, look into the do this shit. He said we had a gentleman's agreement and it would be unfortunate for him to capitalize on such a situation. A gentleman's agreement with a murderer? They're not a gentleman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You spit in the palm of your hand and shook a man's hand. About what?

[James Petregallo]

About a horse that I sold.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I won't jerk off to the pictures of them. Is that what you.

[James Petregallo]

Apparently it's a gentleman's agreement that he wouldn't do this type of shit. Apparently it wasn't in writing so. By the way, there are some fans comments under the song I Kill People for real that he wrote and that he performed and on the video. And they're all making fun of him, which is pretty fun. So I figured we'd end this making fun of this idiot. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Terrific.

[James Petregallo]

This is from Adrian Jr. At least he's not capping. Okay. It's right. It's true. I mean it is true. Next one here. This is from 15 years ago. So this is right when this happened. I usually hate auto tune but I think it would have helped this guy out a little. That's not a compliment. Here's one from three years ago. This is a great example of how we are completely screwed as a society. My God. May God actually says my God have mercy on us all. But I think may is what they were going for. Here's one from 14 years. I seen this dude on TV when I was in prison. I don't feel his music. Don't get me wrong, I like horrorcore rap rappers such as Old School Brother Lynch, Old School, Three Six Mafia, etc. Yeah, they all say they kill murder and other crazy shit. But actually murdering after rapping about murder makes this guy on the bottom of my top horrorcore rapper. Listen, honestly, I personally won't be a Psycho Sam fanatic and another person says quote I'm not even going to press play. I know it's whack without even hearing it. You are correct sir. So there you go. There's Farmville. Very quickly shut up and give me murder.com head over there, get your tickets for live shows for the rest of the year. Rate review on whatever app you are currently listening on. You can give us five stars. It helps the show a lot. Shut up and give me murder.com I told you about. Patreon.com crimeandsports all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above which you might be saving on your Wondery subscription. Now I would go there because you're gonna get hundreds of episodes to binge and you get new ones every other week. That's where all that shit is. And this week what you're gonna get Crime and sports, which you'll have access to. We're gonna talk about a really weird group of guys who play 1864 rules baseball. Now it's real weird and funny. And then for Small Town Murder we're gonna talk about this Sherry Papini documentary where she says she has the real truth is now coming out. So we'll talk all about that. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the show very quickly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why might they be saving on their.

[James Petregallo]

Wondery plus James we moved networks, we moved off of Wondery and not gonna talk any shit about Wondery. They're fine. Their checks cash just fine. And they were allowed us to put fucking shows out and we put them out and you know, not allowed us to, but, you know, whatever paid us to each other. Great, they're terrific. But business relationships end and we moved on to another network. So we moved on to another network. We're on Libsyn now and they're very nice to us and they're treating us really well and their whole thing is, you know, hands off, as always. Our number one contract thing is you can't tell us a goddamn thing about our show. Okay, good. Once we agree to that, then we can move on to everything else. So anyway, they're really good. They don't want to fuck with our show and they're excellent people. But what they don't do is early release. Very quickly, I'll explain to you the reason why early release existed for Wondery. And this isn't a shit talk, it's just reality. Wondery is owned by Amazon. Amazon and their Amazon music app, they were launching hard a few years ago when they signed us. They wanted that to compete with Spotify. That's what they were going for in the marketplace. So they were getting all these podcasts, paying us good money and getting it. So they had early release. So people would subscribe to that and then they would listen on one replus or listen ad free on Amazon. And if they could get all these podcast people to use that as their main app, which they didn't, they only used it for the podcast and they'd go back to Spotify to listen to music or whatever, then they could. They could dominate the market. That didn't work out for them. And so that's why it didn't work.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Out as they planned.

[James Petregallo]

And so didn't work out as they planned. Is everyone. Is that your main app? Probably not. So you could see other people and we're fine. So that. Yeah. And we were like, yeah, let's. That's fine. So that's the reason why they did early release is what I'm getting at. They were doing. That's the only reason why we hated the early release because so tough watching our fucking listeners argue with each other. Don't post that joke about this. That's a spoiler. And I. Well, I don't hear that yet. I don't have. It was so confusing for everybody. Now everybody gets the same episodes, one regular, one express every week. Everybody gets them at the same time. We can all hang out together with them. We are working on an ad free option. We don't know if that's going to be via Patreon or via some other thing with Libsyn we're not sure, but we are working as hard as we can, and hopefully we'll have that resolved for you in the next couple months. But for now, there's a fucking button where you can just dip, dip, dip, dip. It goes right by it and keep listening and hanging out. So there you go. We have to go now. Thank you so much, everybody. Until next week. It's been our pleasure. Bye.