Singing Serial Killer - Menomonie, Wisconsin

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast

Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman

Episode: "Singing Serial Killer – Menomonie, Wisconsin"

Date: November 13, 2025

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Overview

In this darkly comedic episode, James and Jimmie dive into the chilling case of Alvin Edward Taylor—the lounge singer with a velvet voice and a penchant for eliminating "demons" he saw all around him in small-town Wisconsin. As always, the hosts blend meticulously researched true crime details with sharp, irreverent banter. They explore Taylor’s mental illness, his series of murders, and the repeated investigative failings that let him evade capture for years—all underpinned by a sharp critique of the U.S. mental health and justice systems.

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Episode Structure and Key Segments

• Menomonie, Wisconsin – Town Profile (05:45–22:20)
• Alvin Taylor’s Background & Mental Health History (41:04–53:18)
• The Murders Begin: Bob Williams (68:09–89:40)
• Subsequent Murders: Severson, Lundgren, Hayden (93:04–147:38)
• Investigation, Confession, and Judicial Proceedings (141:18–176:28)
• Taylor’s Commitment and Attempts at Release (176:29–183:22)

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Menomonie, Wisconsin

• The hosts open by painting a vivid portrait of Menomonie, highlighting its college-town innocence, weirdly low crime rate, and hyper-local quirks.
• Notable reviews:
  • "Definitely not a place you want to be outside at night. Unless you like to party uncontrollably..." (10:00)
• Menomonie is depicted as a safe, sleepy town—a sharp contrast to the violence that would soon erupt there.

The Antagonist: Alvin Edward Taylor

• Born in 1947, Milwaukee; endured serious abuse from his father and maternal neglect.
• Became a musically talented lounge singer with a charismatic persona.
• Suffered from paranoid schizophrenia—with constant auditory hallucinations and belief in a "divine mission" to eliminate “demons.”
• His psychosis grew over time, especially in periods of stress, failure, and after institutionalizations.
• Cocaine as self-medication—"He discovered, you know what calms them down? Cocaine." – James (53:19)

Early Red Flags & Systemic Failures

• Repeated hospitalizations in the 1970s and 1980s, but always released due to lack of insurance, non-compliance with medication, and system failures.
• Lack of mandated psychiatric treatment, especially post-prison, allowed Taylor to freely travel and continue gig work.
• On mental health neglect:
  • “That’s why we have crazy people walking around killing people. Insurance companies won’t fucking pay for it.” – James (52:16)

The Murders

1. Bob Williams (Friend) – July 15, 1985 (75:43–85:03)

• Victim: Lonely computer technician, became friends with Taylor over shared interests.
• Build-up: Taylor’s delusions escalate; believes Williams is a "demon operative" working for "them" (his journal is filled with delusions).
• Murder: Taylor lures Williams to his rural farmhouse, shoots him three times, buries him with quicklime, and plants tomatoes over the grave.
• Aftermath:
  • "First demon eliminated. The force pleased. More work to come." – Taylor’s journal (85:00)

2. James Severson (Neighbor) – May 21, 1986 (93:04–109:14)

• Victim: Divorced, alcoholic neighbor. Taylor believes he’s surveilling him for a “network.”
• Murder: Taylor enters his unit under pretense of friendship, stabs him, chokes him, then repeatedly stabs body post-mortem “to ensure demon was expelled.”
• Police Response: Deemed suicide/accident; failed to notice clear evidence of murder.
• On incompetence:
  • “They just said, well, he’s got a lot of wounds. He was in a bad car accident.” – James (124:43)

3. Daniel Lundgren (Motel Manager) – November 30, 1986 (113:58–125:29)

• Victim: Motel manager who evicted Taylor for bizarre behavior.
• Murder: Taylor shoots Lundgren three times at close range, stages the body in a traffic accident, and the coroner never finds the bullets. Death is ruled as traffic trauma.
• Journal entry: "Lundgren equals central node of demon network. Must be eliminated before the portal opens fully." (121:30)

4. Attempted Murder of Paul Zwick – December 23, 1986 (22:21–38:56; 125:46–147:33)

• Victim: Maintenance worker.
• Attack: Taylor lures him with a fake maintenance call, attacks him with hammer and screwdriver—Zwick escapes, but fails to report.
• Quote:
  • "I was leaving for the Navy in two weeks—didn’t want to deal with courts and trials and bullshit. Just wanted to get the hell out of Wisconsin." – Paul Zwick (37:09)

5. Tim Hayden (Roommate) – March 26, 1987 (128:06–139:55)

• Victim: Young accounting student, shared an apartment with Taylor.
• Murder: Taylor, deep into psychosis, believes Tim is an alien duplicate threatening a bartender (Sandra). Shoots him in the head; waits for "the alien" to manifest.
• Post-killing: Calls police himself, calls bartender to say "I saved you. The alien is dead."
• Quote:
  • "I did and they told me what to do." – Alvin, moments before shooting Hayden (135:32)

Taylor’s Funtime Journal

Throughout these years, Taylor’s journal chronicles his descent:

• Criminal plans described in the language of missions from “the Force.”
• Victims designated as “demons” or “operatives.”
• Chilling, at times darkly absurd, insights into delusional thinking.

Law Enforcement Failures

• Repeated agency mistakes: deaths misclassified (as accident or suicide), bodies missed, confessions ignored because Taylor’s madness made his claims seem incredible.
• Key quote:
  • “He starts telling cops about murders they don’t even know are murders.” – James (142:08)
• Failure to recognize bullet wounds or investigate thoroughly in most cases.

Confession, Plea, and Institutionalization

• Taylor is ultimately apprehended after speaking out at Tim Hayden’s funeral:
  • "Tim was my friend. The demons made me do it. Tim understands." (140:56)
• He confesses to the killings in chilling detail, often before police even realize they’re dealing with homicides.
• Ruled not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect; committed to Mendota Mental Health Institute, home of Ed Gein.
• Never stands full trial; multiple psychiatrists agree on severe, treatment-resistant paranoia.

Life in Mental Hospital & Repeated Parole Attempts

• Taylor is medicated heavily; at times compliant, often relapses into delusional thinking, periodically violent within facility.
• Family members of victims consistently oppose parole.
• Despite becoming elderly, wheelchair-bound, and physically ill, Taylor’s delusions persist.
  • “A doctor said, ‘In unguarded moments, he still refers to his victims as demons and himself as God’s soldier.’” (182:56)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

All timestamps in MM:SS format.

On the case overall:

• "This is the only place in America where a serial killer can blend seamlessly into the background—just another weird musician at the Holiday Inn." – James (45:10)

On investigative failures:

• “You have three hospitals, a flight-for-life helicopter, a rescue squad, and a coroner involved. Nobody saw three .38 caliber bullets to the head.” – James (161:31)
• “They just said, well, he’s got a lot of wounds. He was in a bad car accident. That makes the other police work look good. This is awful.” (124:43)

On Taylor’s delusions:

• “The force says... wait. Better targets coming.” – James, reading Taylor’s journal (38:05)
• "I am chosen. I am the sword of righteousness." – Taylor, journal (90:13)
• “Alien duplicate using pheromones and mind control. Must protect her. Must eliminate the duplicate.” – Taylor, journal (131:03)

On systemic shortcomings:

• “You want a public defender’s job? Imagine this—your only client is God's assassin with a taste for Motown, and he’s mad about your tie color.” – Jimmie (153:26)

On small town quirks:

• “If you go out after sundown, it’s uncontrollable party. By 5:30 it goes crazy! The town turns to Nero’s Rome—orgies, beer, bouncy houses!” – James (11:20)

On dark humor and tension:

• “He shouldn’t be able to have a rubber band and a nickel. Never mind an actual weapon.” – James, on Taylor having a .357 Magnum (80:57)
• “He painted technically very nice portraits that were really disturbing and weird, but good artwork. Well done!” (177:59)
• “He comes over with blood on his shoes and they’re like, no problem, can you start Monday?” (re: getting a job post-murder) (147:44)

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Timeline Highlights (Timestamps)

| Time | Description | |-------------|------------------------------------------------| | 05:45–22:20 | Menomonie town profile and real estate oddities| | 41:04–53:18 | Taylor’s mental health history | | 68:09–89:40 | Murder of Bob Williams | | 93:04–109:14| Murder of Jim Severson (misclassified death) | |113:58–125:29| Murder of Daniel Lundgren (staged accident) | |128:06–139:55| Murder of Tim Hayden (roommate/alien delusion) | |141:18–147:38| Interrogation and confession | |176:28–183:22| Taylor’s mental hospital life and parole denials|

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The Lasting Outrage

• The episode closes with pointed criticism of the system that allowed this tragedy—highlighting the ignorance of mental health needs, lack of oversight after prison release, failures of law enforcement, and the trauma suffered by surviving families and near-miss victims like Paul Zwick.

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Tone & Style Notes

• The hosts keep the banter lively and the tone irreverent, often breaking up gruesome details with sharp comedic asides.
• A running “Alvin’s Funtime Journal” brings the audience inside Taylor’s madness in an (intentionally) absurd, chilling way.
• Their signature way of balancing empathy for the victims while lampooning inaccurate police work, bizarre local customs, and the failures of institutions is on full display throughout.

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Final Thoughts

This is classic Small Town Murder: dark, thorough, funny, and deeply unsettling—using the true crime framework to explore not just a “singing serial killer,” but the failures and eccentricities of small-town America and its institutions.

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For listeners: You don’t need to be familiar with the series or the town to be horrified, informed, and highly entertained by this wild, true story.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

This holiday, give the gift that says let's cancel plans and just lounge. Meundies has dropped a new holiday collection and it's made for maximum cozy. We're talking soft as snow, ultramodal fabric, festive prints and loungewear so comfy your couch might get jealous. Onesies, hoodies, joggers, even delightfully quirky holiday designs. You're welcome. Knock out all your holiday gifting needs with deals up to 60% off at MeUndies Dot Comfort. Enter promo code Comfort. That's Meundies Dot Comfort. Code Comfort. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

$15 per month equivalent required.

[James Petregallo]

New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan, taxes and fees extra. See Mint mobile.com this Week in Menominee, Wisconsin, a friendly traveling lounge singer slides into town only to have people begin to turn up dead all over the area. Is it a coincidence or is he a serial killer who just happens to sing like an angel? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. I know we don't have to say it because it's every week, but wow, is it crazy. This week we got. We have a crazy person doing some really crazy things. Just a wow, insane stuff. Before we get to that, shut up and give me murder.com is the website head there all the merchandise you could want from all the shows we put out. Also tickets to live shows. The live, live shows meaning in person. Those are sold out. Philly. I kept telling everybody there's a few tickets left in Philly. Those are the handicap accessible seats I found out. So those are not available unless you need extra whatever room those are not available. You could get I think until Friday, I believe until Thursday night.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just a couple of days.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, couple days. You can still get the virtual live show that we did for Halloween, which is an amazing story. It's really Funny. So go ahead and get it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fun time. Also, thank you to everybody that already did it.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you. It was amazing. That was great. Thank you for hanging out with us and doing that. Shut upandgivemerder.com Also listen to our other two shows, Crime in sports, which is crime in sports except you don't really have to like sports. It's a comedy show where we're making fun of people's insane, you know, overreaches of everything. So check that out. And then also youo stupid opinions, which is us making fun of all the reviews from all over the Internet of everything. And it is hilarious. It's so funny. So check that out. Then get yourself patreon as well. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You are going to get so much stuff. Or first of all, as soon as you subscribe you're going to get hundreds of back episodes, Bonus episodes you've never heard. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder and you get it all. This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about part two of the team relocations because those were a lot of fun. People freaked out about losing a team and it was really fun. Then for small town murder we are going to talk about. We got some good ones coming up. The next couple we're going to talk about how the American prison system has evolved over the years. Where it started, where we are now, what was the original purpose, where we are now. Then after that, a couple weeks from now, we're going to do Charles Starkweather. We're going to finally do that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Terrific.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of good stuff coming up there. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get all the shows, Crime in sports, small town murder, your stupid opinions all ad free with your Patreon as well. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. So it's all we can give you possibly. It's everything we have.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know what else you want from me.

[James Petregallo]

It's a garage. It's a garage sale. The garage is empty. We got nothing else. Yeah. Cook your breakfast. What do you want? There you go. So there. Do that for sure. That said, disclaimer time. Hey, hey. This is certainly a comedy show. We're comedians. We're definitely gonna make some jokes here. That's a fact. Other thing that's a fact is everything that goes on in the Story is true. Nothing is embellished for comedic effect. Or any ridiculous thing like this is. We try to do as meticulous research as possible on all this and make all the facts crazy. But you'd say, well, how do you do that? You make jokes and there's murder. Yes, we do. Because you do it nice and you do it tasteful. See, that's how you do it. What we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victim's families because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. That's how that goes there. It's real easy to do that. So if you think that sounds good to you, boy, do we have a crazy show for you and a wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should go together, we might not be for you, but give it a shot. Might not be what you think it is. Either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

We're going to Wisconsin this week.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a nice place.

[James Petregallo]

It's a nice place. Going up there to hang out. We are going to Menominee, Wisconsin. And I know I said that right, Actually. And we've said it. We brought that town up in other episodes. It's come up and the Wisconsin people are incredibly impressed that we pronounce Menominee correctly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Really. And it's the only reason.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Reminds me of the Dr. Pepper commercial. But it's a fun word to say.

[James Petregallo]

It is a very fun word to say. You just want to put a rhythm phenomenon. It's very fun. Yeah, it's very fun. I only know how to pronounce it from ras on. Frazier said it once, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

And I was like, oh, Menominee. Okay, that's how you say that. This is in western Wisconsin. It's about an hour and 10 to Minneapolis. That's the closest city. So it's really kind of more Minnesota here in that direction. It's four hours down to Milwaukee and about three hours and 15 minutes to our last episode in Wisconsin to Green Bay, which was episode 606, the kinky cut up murder insanity. That was Shabusiness. That was our girl Shabusiness on an express episode doing some seriously wacky things.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Serious Shabusiness.

[James Petregallo]

She was handling her Shebusiness from day one. This is in Dunn County. D U N n area. Code 7, 15 and 5 3, 4. This is kind of out there. There's not a lot going on. This is a real rural area of Wisconsin, kind of also near some. There's like vacation spots on the way there. Motto here. You don't know how local I am. There's a great outdoors reference for you there. Now also there is a city of Menominee and a town of Menominee. And it was very confusing because then they literally said the city is mostly inside the town of Menominee. So I'm like, well, which is possible. This is for the city of Menominee.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Inside the city.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's impossible. Made me confused. I don't know how much the cheese curds have overtaken insanity up there. I don't know what's going on. The history of this town. The area was heavily populated with Sioux Indians when French fur traders showed up in the late 18th century. In 1788, Jean Baptiste Renault set up the first trading post near present day Menominee. So, yeah, there's a permanent settlement established in Menominee in 1830. And then lumber industry started to take off and big lumber firms started to happen and all that kind of thing. The lumber company closed in 1901 though, so that didn't last long. They established a post office in town. One of the company, the Menominee, was the suggestion of one of the lumber company founders. How about we call it Menominee? The name is derived from an Algonquin word that means people of the rice. As we know, northern areas is ricing, as we found out from this show, Minnesota, So much rice. And apparently there was a lot of rice going on all over here when it started. The bulk of the people here are college students.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

There's a University of Wisconsin Stout is up there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, stout, like the beer.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Apparently they have the only polytechnic school in the Wisconsin University of Wisconsin system. So, yeah, if you're into polytechnics, whatever the hell that is, this is where.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You go several technics.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. If you. If you. If you eat cheese curds and like hot dish and also are into polytechnics, this is where you're gonna end up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stout beer.

[James Petregallo]

This is stout beer reviews of this town. Let's find out what other people think because we've never been to Menominee. Never in Madison, but not Menominee. Close Madison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Milwaukee, five hours away.

[James Petregallo]

Here's four stars. This is a really nice town. However, you need to travel a minimum of 30 minutes to go to a bigger town to have more options. To do activities and shopping. I would say that it is a reasonable time to travel if you don't have a time limit to get things done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you've got all day, boy, you got all day.

[James Petregallo]

Great. Not in a rush. Hey everybody shuffling around your house wondering what to do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good for you.

[James Petregallo]

This is your. There is your average stores and food places. Okay, five stars. Menominee is a small town in Wisconsin with only one high school. It is an excellent and safe place. It was a wonderful. It was wonderful to grow up here and would be a great place to raise children.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure would.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, sounds great. Only if you have a lot of time on your hands though.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, if you got all.

[James Petregallo]

You got plenty of time. Here's five stars. I like Menominee because it's not too big, but it's big enough to have things to do. We're also close to Eau Claire. Eau Claire. Eau Claire. Eau Claire and the Twin Cities. Which makes it great. If you want to live in a smaller town but still want to be close to the cities, you know like a suburb like we've been doing for.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can find it big.

[James Petregallo]

You know, all that kind of stuff and you have a lot of time. Three stars. Who Eh, it's okay. Some stuff to do in town, but definitely not a place you want to be outside during the night. Not a place you want to be outside at during the night. And then in parentheses. Unless you like to party uncontrollably. You know, once the sun goes down. If you go out after sundown, that means uncontrollable party. At that point you can't help yourself. Can't help it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're out of control partying.

[James Petregallo]

Keep in mind it's dark at about 3:45 here in the winter. So you get yourself out of control partying by mid afternoon. Or it's out of control party by 5:30. I'm telling you it goes crazy by 5:30. Wow. They are out of there. That is the craziest review. Unless you want to like to party uncontrollably. Just. I've never heard no. The streets of Menominee turn into Nero's Rome. Past dark man. The second the street lights come on, it's orgies and real bird. It's wild. People pissing everywhere. It's insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fremont street ain't shit.

[James Petregallo]

Tits and beads and you name it. People in this town. 16,721. So not that big at all. 16,000 and this is like the biggest town in the area. There's a Bunch of other smaller towns.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Real, real well kept secret, evidently, because there's only 16,000 people that know about it.

[James Petregallo]

We could have picked from a number of small towns around here for this episode because of where things happened. And one was Springbrook. But there's nothing in Springbrook. There isn't even a gas station there. So they had nothing to talk about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not even one technics?

[James Petregallo]

Not even any technic. Not one. The population, like I said, 16,721. There's more women than men in this town. About 50.4% women to 49.6% men, which is about the national average. Median age here, 23.9, which is about as low as it seems. It's all colleges. There's probably 2,000 people who live here, don't go to college.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And most of them probably work at the college. So it's tough. Normally it's about 38 and a half family. Normally 50. 50 is the marriage thing in the United States. Here, 25% married. So very low. Way less.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh yeah, college kids, I guess.

[James Petregallo]

College kids. 18% are single that have children. I mean, they are partying uncontrollably after all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Uncontrollably. That might be why they're losing children.

[James Petregallo]

Say you're slip one past the gully at some point. If you part, it's dark, you can't even find your condoms.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And you party too hard, you'll lose the baby.

[James Petregallo]

You lose it all, man. Just lost down the river. I don't know where it went. Race in this town, 89% white, 1.2% black, 4.9% Asian, 1.8% Hispanic. Religion in this town, 48.8% religious, which is close to the national average. It's usually 50, 50. And the highest here by a long shot is Lutheran. Oh, this is the Lutheran area. This is. This is definitely. Even around Minnesota, especially if you've seen Drop dead Gorgeous. Everything was even like the Lutheran gun club and the Lutheran, all that stuff here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wasn't that the reason that Leo couldn't marry that girl in Touch me if you can. Because she wasn't. Because he wasn't Lutheran.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Some people get.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They really. They really stick on that Lutheran thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Some of the people, if you come from these areas where it's like all pretty much one religion, everybody's the same religion. It's like Utah, you know what I mean? Yeah. They want you to be a Mormon. It's the way it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You don't sound Catholic around here.

[James Petregallo]

Well, yeah, and Catholics are the ones who don't care. It's like, yeah, I wouldn't want to be. Yeah. They're like, yeah, you don't have to deal with all that. It's fine. We don't. We don't care. Everybody else wants you to convert. Catholics are like, it's fine. It's fine. Whatever. Don't worry about it. You do Christmas, right? All right, yeah. Good. We're good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a lot of. It's a lot of other shit.

[James Petregallo]

You don't want to go with that. The unemployment rate here is about average. Median household income here is 47,684, which is way under the national average, which is about 69,000. But that's understandable because there's a lot of college kids. So college kids, one thing they don't do is earn a lot of money. Generally. It's hard to do that while you're going to school.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They spend a lot, but they don't earn a lot.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, hard to do it while you're going to school and partying uncontrollably past dark. It's crazy. Cost of living in this town, 100 is average in the rest of the United states. Here it is 86 in terms of cost of living. The housing is also pretty low. Median home cost here, $243,500, which is steep. It's steep. But it's a third under the national average, though. So for as far as that goes, it's not bad. So if we've convinced you, you're gonna go to school, you're gonna party uncontrollably past dark, we have for you the Menominee Wisconsin real estate report. All right, your average two bedroom rental here goes for 12 $30, which I assume right at average. And I think because there's a lot of rentals because of the college kids, so there's competition for those here. The first house is a three, three bedroom, one bath, 56. I'm sorry, 1556 square feet. It's on eight acres here. And it looks like. It kind of looks like if Ed Gein's house was in good shape. That's what it looks like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I love the little gazebo out there. You can't use that shit very much.

[James Petregallo]

Also leaning to the right, as you can see, it's not. Yeah, don't. Don't love it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sunday build.

[James Petregallo]

Don't love it too much because it might fall over. The inside is not great. As you can see. The countertops are very 1970s. It's it is not good. But the auction starts at $105,000, so.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, at an auction.

[James Petregallo]

At an auction, you might get it cheap. Eight acres, 1500 bucks. Not bad. It will be offered at auction with Andrews Auction Services. Like I said, 105,000. This house was built 1900. Our next house here, four bedroom, one and a half bath, 2100 square feet. And it's not bad. I mean, it kind of looks like a giant shed, but it's got room.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And yeah, there's some shit upstairs happening.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, inside's not terrible at all. It's. You can tell they've redone it, you know, semi recently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I do love those.

[James Petregallo]

Ten years or so.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I do love those. I don't know if those things are even called those, like alcoves that come out from the roof that have a little window in them. Those are cool.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you know, those look pretty cool. Yeah, I like that too. That's not bad. Yes, that definitely. They made that into a bedroom. This house built in 1940. 5.28-acre lot, $218,000.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's not so bad.

[James Petregallo]

No. Just had a $5,000 price cut as well as every single house on every house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Everything's going down.

[James Petregallo]

This next house is dope. It looks like. Like some sort of German something. Something we bombed on the way to fucking the bunker in Berlin. Like, it looks like some weird, crazy, like German beer hall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Slash our house that was shelled in London by the Germans.

[James Petregallo]

Something something just looks old. It's got a German style to it, though. It's got that thing. It's got the brick thing. It's really cool. Four bedroom, four bath, t bowl for each and every beehive here. 5,145 square feet on 0.72 acres, built in 1914. Look at the inside of this joint. Look at how this place is. It is classy, man. It is like old school classy. It is gorgeous. 849,900 bucks for that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's funny how when. When those really nice houses, you can see, they ran out of shit to update and make nicer. As soon as they start with the ceiling, you know, they got ornate shit on the ceiling with wood frames and it's beautiful.

[James Petregallo]

It's beautiful. Well, it's old school. That's. That's just original woodwork and that's. This house has so much original, like, intric. Intricate woodwork and shelving. That's like built ins. It's gorgeous, man. This is a gorgeous house. I like this house a lot. Things to do here. Got a bunch of stuff to do. The great community cookout.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Featuring local food trucks, beer tents, exciting raffles. You didn't even have to say beer tents. It's Wisconsin. We get it. There's beer. There's gonna be beer. A car show, inflatables and bouncy houses. A bouncy houses. A dunk tank, of course. Gotta have that. And activities for the whole family. It'll. This is great. Located in public parking lot number six, across the street from Raw Deal. I don't know what that is, but Raw Deal is. And we all. We do know at Dark. Get the fuck inside. It's over.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Otherwise you'll get a raw deal.

[James Petregallo]

You're get a raw. Raw dogged and a raw deal. There's also music that they don't tell you who's going to be there at all and everything like that. And a classic car show. There is also music on Main they're talking about. It's a summer music series happening in downtown Menominee. I think it takes place on the lawn of the library. So that's exciting. Live music. Here they have saying live music performances. Various venues and eateries. Search for hidden records to win prizes. Enjoy extended evening shopping hours with sidewalk sales and outdoor entertainment at the boutiques. My goodness. The live music we're gonna see for the next couple are. One band is called E. Stearns and Jerrica Miguel. They'll be there. And then the next week they have the Witch Syndicate. Oh, and the Dirty Pretty. A different band. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, all right.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know anything about these bands.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dirty Pretty might be something that's a touring band, but I doubt it.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe. I'm sure they play a bunch of places like this. It's one of those. There's a. There's a lot of tears of bands. Kind of like comics. Yeah, there's a lot of tears.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. There's pretty reckless, though. And I think that this may be like, they might be upset that that girl is doing fantastic. Because Dirty Pretty may have been around before. I feel like. I feel like I've heard of them. It doesn't.

[James Petregallo]

It doesn't. They're there. If you're playing the lawn of the library and fucking menominee doing the 7 to 8pm set. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, just work on what you're working on. There's really not a lot going on for you. And also in a nearby town here of Hayward, they have the 2025 Blues Band of the Year. The Jimmy's, all Jimmy's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. They said they're saving a spot for us just to. We're gonna. We'll be there. Six guys named Jimmy and they're gonna add two more.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've been working on the harmonica.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we got this. I've been working on it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, I'm looking at it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. We're gonna be part of the band. We're gonna be part of the band there. It's pretty good stuff. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, the property crime is right about. At average. Just about average. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third under the national average.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fairly safe.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of typical of college towns. You get people breaking windows, pissing in the streets, doing uncontrollable partying at night. Uncontrollable, uncontrollable. And then you get the violent crimes less. So that said, let's talk about some murder, shall we?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

All right, well, let's start out hot. What do you say? Screw this. Little ease into this bad boy. December 23rd, 1986. Let's go back to two days before Christmas. This is at the Paradise Inn, okay. Paradise Inn. Nearby here? Room seven, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, we know the room.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. It's all going to go down in room seven here. There's a young man named Paul Zwick. Z, W, I, C, K, Paul Zwick. He's 23 at the time. He is a maintenance worker at the hotel and a part time desk clerk. Oh man. So he does the maintenance shit. And if it's nighttime because he works like the night shift. So if it's nighttime, you know, he'll. Somebody needs to do something at the desk, he'll do that and then he'll go fix something and then he'll sit there pretty much the rest of the time. It's a small town motel, you know. What the fuck are we talking about here? So not that overwhelming with workload. He plans to join the Navy the next month. He's been already done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's a young man.

[James Petregallo]

He's already enlisted in the navy and he plans to leave next month. Yeah, he's 23, which is young still, but kind of. He didn't go to college. When people join the NAVY when they're 23, it means they've tried some other shit and it didn't work. You know what I'm saying? I know this just from experience of Knowing people, there's those gung ho people who join right out of high school. And then there's those people that are like, well, I got. This is my last attempt at something. I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. And at 23, if you're working at the hotel and doing pretty much everything there on the night shift, your parents are probably going, you can't do this your whole fucking life. You gotta do something. Yeah, well, there's nothing in this town. Well, then fucking enlist in the army.

[James Petregallo]

I don't care. Get the fuck out of here. So anyway, he is covering the night shift for holiday pay because he gets paid extra. Cause it's around Christmas. So he's like, I'll fucking cover the night shift. I'll do it. I don't mind. So he's doing that this night now. So it's not his normal night to work. Now at 11:30pm that night, damn near Christmas Eve, there's a call at the front desk to him and it's a maintenance call. Someone's saying, there's room seven, saying, there's something wrong with my heater. Oh, boy, can you come fix it? Because we're talking about December in Wisconsin. Not a good time to not have heaters broken. It's you're going out and fixing it. So right there, Zwick grabs his toolbox. And this happens all the time too. It's kind of a rundown motel. I assume they don't have the greatest newest equipment. So, yeah, he's fixing heaters quite a bit here. So he enters room 7. Now, the occupant of room 7 and the person who called for the heater to be repaired is a man named Alvin Edward Taylor. Okay, Now, Alvin Edward Taylor, born in 1947, so he's almost 40 at this point in time. He is a traveling musician. Yeah, yeah. He plays all around the area, Minnesota, all around this area, the Wisconsin Dells. He goes there and does all their shit. Fucking park grass at the moment. If he can get that gig. That's sought after. That's sought after. He was trying to get it, but Dirty Pretty stole his spot. And he was pissed. He was real pissed about it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So he decided they got pretty reckless.

[James Petregallo]

He decided to party uncontrollably. So he bases himself out of this motel because, you know, that doesn't pay a lot being a traveling musician like that. So he's living at this hotel, you know, traveling guy, very strange looking man. He has. He looks like. He looks like if you took like Hank Kingsley, Jeffrey Tambor from The Larry Sanders show with the mustache and the extremely bald head with the just little tiny ring of hair.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very low. Very low ring.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, so take that guy, take Jeffrey Tambor and turn him black. And that's who you have here, really black Tambor is what he looks like, that hair. And it's terrible looking. His hair looks awful because it's a little ring and a dumb mustache and the whole deal. Now he's hanging out when Paul Zwick gets into the room. He goes in. He doesn't see anybody. He opens the door. He doesn't see anybody in there. He's like, hello. Behind the door is Alvin Taylor. This guy, Alvin Edward Taylor. Now, Alvin is behind the door holding a hammer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He takes a swing with the hammer at Paul Zwick.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Doesn't hit him. Full on glancing blow to the head. So still a glancing blow to the head with a hammer. Still a blow to the head with.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A fucking hammer that'll cut you open.

[James Petregallo]

So it makes Zwick stumble because first of all, he didn't even see it coming. So then it hit him in the head. So it makes him stumble, but he stays on his feet. He keeps coming. Alvin does with this hammer, swings it misses. Paul completely hits the wall, ends up putting a big hole in the wall with the hammer, leaving a big, giant hole. Now, Zwick, he's in a closed. Because the door was shut at this point. So he's in a very closed. I assume it's not a, you know, not a suite at the Waldorf. So it's probably a small little room with a guy who he doesn't even know, has no idea what's going on and is swinging a hammer at him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. And putting holes in the drywall that I'll have to fix later.

[James Petregallo]

And he's doing like the. That's the other thing. And he's doing like fucking Dante from Clerks going, I'm not even supposed to be here today the whole time. Come on, man. So that's how this is going at this point. He's bleeding, and he's a little bit dazed from being hit in the head. But Zwick, being 23 and also a former high school wrestler, decides, I got to attack this guy. That's the only way I'm getting out of this. So he attacks him, just tries to tackle his ass. Alvin Taylor. So they wrestle around for a minute, and Zwick gets the hammer away from him. Oh, Paul Zwick probably saving his own life. But the problem is Alvin Taylor pulls a screwdriver out of his Pocket out of under the bed. We don't know where it came from. But he's got a screwdriver now he's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got a whole ass toolbox full of weapons.

[James Petregallo]

He's ready to roll. Yeah, he could have fixed his own heater. He's got enough tools. That was a problem. So he pulls the screwdriver out and starts stabbing Paul's wick. Just stabbing his ass. Stabs him in the shoulder, stabs him in the arm, stabs him in his side with a screwdriver and a screwdriver. That's a brutal thing to be stabbed with. You'd rather be stabbed with a knife generally. Although it can go in deeper and cut organs. It hurts less to go in because it's sharp and made to do that. A screwdriver is just a big nasty puncture hole. It's terrible. So he's stabbing him, stabbing him. And Zwick though is still, he's doing a good job wrestling him. He's contained him, but the guy's kind of trying to stab him off of him, basically. So it's a mess here. He then gets on top of Alvin Taylor and begins punching him. Just starts wailing on him as you would do, just beatin him, beating and beating him till Alvin Taylor goes limpin unconscious from being pummeled. Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a better way to manage your money with Rocket Money. Rocketmoney.com oh, you know it. Managing your finances takes time. It's a hassle. Canceling old subscriptions, tracking your expenses, sticking to a budget. It's hard. Luckily, Rocket Money can do the heavy lifting for for you automatically finding new ways to save and simplifying the process. Less stress, more free time, and a clearer path toward financial freedom all in one app. It's amazing. You gotta get Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions that you forgot about, more than likely. And if you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. If you've got a goal you'd like to save for, Rocket Money can analyze your accounts, find the best time each month to put extra money aside. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. Wow. You want to call customer service and sit on hold for hours and ask for managers to try to negotiate? You're not doing that they will. It's incredible that they'll do that. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save, then goes to work to get you better deals. We even talk to customer service so you don't have to. And that is amazing. Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. And some of that's from me because I used it and it was great. They canceled stuff that I had that I didn't know about for, like, seven years. It's amazing. Their 10 million customers save up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. You need to go there. You get your Rocket Money, do it right now. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com SmallTownMurder today, that's RocketMoney.com SmallTownMurDer RocketMoney.com SmallTown Murder now back to the show. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com you know it, Jimmy. And I'm telling everybody right now, yeah, the days are getting shorter. It's getting dark earlier. It's a little gloomier out. That doesn't mean that you have to feel like that on the inside. That's the thing outside and inside, they don't have to match up like that. This is a good time to know that you're not alone. We all are. We all need to know that now. And so it's, you know, it's tough. So this November, Better Help is encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on your friends, reconnect with the loved ones, and remind people in your life that you're there. It's helpful just to know somebody's there and you'll be happy that they're there as well. It's a nice thing to do, and it helps out a lot. And you'll end up saying, why didn't I do this sooner? I should have done this earlier. Human connection is really what you need. And that's kind of what therapy's. That's mostly what therapy is all about. It's a human connection to make with somebody. And honestly, there's nothing bad about therapy. It is good for everybody. Everybody could use it. And BetterHelp is the place to get started with that. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct. They're fully licensed in the US Their match. The thing about matching with a therapist is huge, because that's a tough thing. You Never know if you're gonna vibe with somebody. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Just a short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And then they use their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate. It means they usually get it right the first time. But if you're not happy, switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. You can't beat that. They want you to get help. And really, honestly, it's the best way to do it. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. They've served over 5 million people globally. And it really works. With an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars for a live session based on over 1.37 million client reviews. They do good work. And this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Plus our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com small town murder. That's betterhelp.com smalltown murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So he leaves his attacker on the floor. Fucking. They're both bleeding. Now this. Alvin's bleeding from the face. He's bleeding from several holes from his head. He's got all sorts of shit going on. So Patrick Zwick or Paul Zwick. I'm sorry. Runs out of the room now. What do you think he does?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Go call 911 at the desk.

[James Petregallo]

Right. To the front desk, Right. No, he runs out of the room, across the parking lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

To his 1978 Camaro that's parked out there. Sweet ride.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah. 350 and I'm. I'm out of here.

[James Petregallo]

That one does not have a 350. Probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

78 sure does.

[James Petregallo]

Those started to get real weak in those late 70s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

78.

[James Petregallo]

It's got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It should have a 350.

[James Petregallo]

The Trans Am maybe. Not the. Or the. The Fire. The.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The Firebird. The SS.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The Z28 is what I'm going for. That maybe, but not the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Regular six.

[James Petregallo]

It might be. It might have a 350. But those were weak anyway. Those were big. That 350 was weak in that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. The 78 was the long front end with the recessed lights in the. In the weird tunnels on the corners.

[James Petregallo]

After 76, you kind of want to. Yeah, it's a different thing. 78. I like the way they look that Rocky Trans Am look, basically that long. The Rocky 2 car. So anyway, he jumps into the 1978 Camaro and drives himself to the hospital.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, wow. He got away.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he got away. Drove to the hospital, which. That makes sense. Call 911. Just go to the hospital if you can do it. You know what I mean? We can stand there and wait. You could have been at the hospital already. So when he gets there, the ER nurses go, my God, what happened? They call the police, says, what? Because it looks like he's been attacked. They call the police, they say, oh, my God, what happened? He said, quote, got jumped. Don't know by whom. Why? He knows exactly who it is. The man is registered with a fucking registration card at the hotel.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is he Italian?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, seriously. Hey, you know, Zwick doesn't sound like an Italian name, but he's like, listen, none of my business.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He really keeps it to himself.

[James Petregallo]

None of my business. So the cops came and they said, look, what happened, you know, where did this happen? What happened? And all he would say to them is, couldn't see his face. Too dark. Don't know what happened. It was dark out. Somebody just jumped me. I don't know, sadly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why would he do this?

[James Petregallo]

I got away. Then his parents asked him too, and he said, wrong place, wrong time. Somebody just jumped me. I don't know what happened. It happens sometimes, I guess. Didn't want to deal with it. He is set to leave for the Navy on January 5th, and he doesn't want. He just doesn't care. He doesn't want to deal with it, which is crazy. At least you'd think you'd want to get the guy kicked out of the hotel, for Christ's sake, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

They, you know where he's at, you know what, what room he's in. You know so much about him, why not just have him arrested?

[James Petregallo]

Not only that, but what happens when he calls for more towels next time? And some, yeah, some fucking, you know, maid comes into the room and he jumps her. Then what happens? Like, you gotta. You gotta tell people about this shit. This is insane. He doesn't, though, now. Doesn't do it now, obviously, the question is, why did you not tell on this guy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're not saying anything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, what the hell are you doing? And this is what he said later on. This is years later, he said, quote, I was leaving for the Navy in two weeks. Didn't want to deal with courts and trials and bullshit. Just wanted to get the hell out of Wisconsin. That's how much this place sucks. He's like, you can stab me. That won't keep me here. I don't give a fuck. If they had to wheel my hospital bed to the goddamn naval ship, I'm going there. I don't care.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't imagine.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, and January 5th, he reports to the naval station for basic training and that's that forgets about it completely. Yeah. Okay, now the next day after that, we're gonna. This is something that's gonna recur over the course of this episode. The day after. Not the day after he leaves for the Navy, but the day after the attack. Christmas Eve 1986, Alvin, who has a journal that he writes in.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wrote in his journal, we're going to call this Alvin's funtime journal entries. Okay? Because he's going to have a bunch of them throughout the whole thing. He said, On December 24, 1986, the demon was stronger than expected.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah? Does he mean the one that was inside him or the one that came to the door? Is he delusional?

[James Petregallo]

Young vessel, military training pending. The Force says. Wait. Better targets coming. Oh, that's what he wrote. One more time. The demon was stronger than expected. That's Palswick. Young vessel, military training pending. Palswick, the Force. And by the way, the Force is written in all caps. The Force says. Wait.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, so the Force is inside him, right?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Better targets coming. So hold on, he's not the one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that one was too strong.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Which Star wars did this one come out of? Yeah, I don't know. This must have been Episode Whatever. I don't know because I don't recall this, the Force being inside of a crazy person in a Menominee motel room. I don't know that one. So who is this goddamn lunatic with crazy diary entries and just unprovoked attacks on strangers? Okay, this is Allen Edward Taylor, like we said, born 1947. He is born in Milwaukee. He's from the south side of Milwaukee. Kind of low, you know, low blue collar type of deal. You know, lower middle class. His father. And this was in the 50s, by the way. So in the 50s in Wisconsin. I'm sure the beer was flowing. I'm sure this was normal. Not okay, but normal. His father beat the shit out of him on a regular basis, which some people, that really affects them badly. And obviously you shouldn't do that. But in the 50s that was considered kind of normal. You know what I mean? Part of it, yeah, that was considered being a good dad in the 50s, like, oh, well, I mean, yeah, he pays attention to his. Look at his son. He's got a black eye. Clearly he's a great dad. He's paying attention. Growing up, babe, it was crazy, but he. This was more than just a smack around once in a while. This was regular beatings he was getting here. His mother was aggressively Midwestern and would just pretend like it wasn't happening. Oh, well. Got some of this cooking. Like, I don't know what's going on over there with old Alvin, but, you know, it's okay. Yeah. And interesting. So it's strange. And he said it was not really neglect, but not just. She seemed to just not care. She seemed to be detached from the whole situation and anything that was going on with him. She was just in the kitchen doing stuff. That was it. So interesting. So Alvin, as a young man, gets into music. That's kind of his escape from everything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There's a piano in the basement of his house and he teaches himself how to play the piano in the basement of his house. I assume while hiding from a beating. You know what I mean? Trying to avoid a beating. I can only imagine. Well, maybe if I play something he likes, he'll stop beating me. So he had done all of this, and over time, through his childhood, he plays more and more into music, starts to try to sing. He wants to be a musician. That's what he's all about. That's the escape from Milwaukee that he sees here. So by his 20s, he starts to do shows where he's going from town to town. He's booked at a hotel for two nights, just sitting in their lounge. And then over there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure a lot of this is for free bar tabs and, you know, and dinner things in a room. Yeah, we've done those comedy gigs. We know this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Comedy, water and shelter is what you're playing for.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And you drive there on your own fucking dime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

How often?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gas money. You're playing for food, water, shelter.

[James Petregallo]

Remember how sought after those comedy gigs were in Arizona? Oh, you mean a casino that's two hours away that I don't even want to stay at? You mean I can go there, perform, and then they'll just give me free food and drinks? That sounds great. That's awesome. I'll pay $40 in gas to get there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'd rather have money. No, no, no.

[James Petregallo]

And it's going to be for 30 indifferent tourists. Oh, excellent. Please.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Indifferent. Oh, you wish they were indifferent.

[James Petregallo]

They hate you actively. No, no, no, no. That's how it's sold. To you?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And you're like, wow, that sounds great. And you get there, and they're like, oh, these are drunken people who hate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Me actively and individually, who are angry.

[James Petregallo]

That they set up a microphone in this area of the lounge where they were just talking to somebody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You surprised them with comedy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's the best.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the worst thing to surprise people.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing worse than assaulting people with comedy. The only thing worse is if you just showed up with a trumpet or something. It was just like every time they went to talk. That would be the only thing worse than. Let me tell you this dick joke while you're trying to tell somebody about something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've got a story. After we're done, I'll just say the bar I stopped at last night, pressing it. I asked him if they do comedy here ever. She goes, oh, not anymore.

[James Petregallo]

We could probably say, let me guess. It was one of these four people that ruined it. Is it this one? This one? This one? That's the funny part that we knew.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I said, I knew why.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you know why.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I knew exactly why it was ruined. I go, were they from. Were they from Phoenix?

[James Petregallo]

Obviously?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Where else are they from? What do you think? There's no Kingman comedians or Sierra Vista comedians. There's Phoenix comedians and three in Tucson.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They waited a year to ask if they could do it again, and they didn't even realize they were talking to the same person. She goes, I remember what happened. They go, oh, okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, Never mind. Yep, that's comedy in Arizona for you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, not anymore. She said, not anymore.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's done now. Holy shit. So he's. Oh, man, that's funny. So Taylor's trying to do. This is what he's trying to do. Alvin Taylor, trying to be that miserable guy, gets all his shit together because this is. We're talking the 70s. He's got his polyester going.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, the suits and everything like that. He sings a combination of Motown hits and Frank Sinatra standards. He loves too. He loves My Way. He loves the Sinatra standards. And he mixes that with a little bit of the Temptations. For some reason, I'm gonna throw that in there. Which. Not a bad medley. I'll listen to a Sinatra Motown medley. Put it together for me. Let's see. I like both those things.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's all Italian restaurant music. It's fine.

[James Petregallo]

It's fine. Yeah. And he's a good performer. He's very personable. He's a very magnetic performer in terms of. He has charisma on stage. He smiles and sings, and I just picture him on stairway to stardom now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's that guy. You know what I mean? So he's doing great. He's working the circuit. And now the circuit, much like comedy in Arizona, consists of a couple of different Holiday Inns in Madison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Ooh. A Ramada Lounge in Minneapolis. And any other place he can go, basically, if there's a piano and he can croon and put one of those giant brandy snifters on it for tips. You know those back in the day that you'd see on there? You put one of those up there, he's fine. One club owner from Eau Claire who booked him regularly in the early 80s, said he had this voice. Smooth as bourbon, you know? Smooth as bourbon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who says that?

[James Petregallo]

Take a shot of bourbon and then tell me if it was smooth as you go. Yeah, smooth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Yeah, you can get a decent one, but it's still.

[James Petregallo]

It's still not smooth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The smoothest bourbon still hurts.

[James Petregallo]

It still hurts. As smooth as a milkshake, maybe. What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you gotta dilute that to make it smooth.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Smooth as bourbon, you know? Could make My Way sound like he wrote it himself. Frank Sinatra. I did it My way, though. Yeah. The ladies loved him. Hell, everybody loved him. Until they didn't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. That's Alvin. He's a great guy to get in the door, big smile.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking charming voice. Charming guy. Handsome. Does all this. Everybody. Even with that, despite the lack of hair, handsome, doing great. Ladies loved him. And then he would turn a little nuts. And then he wouldn't love him anymore because he's acting crazy. He goes on tour in 1969 with a bunch of. With a band that he's in. He's actually in a band.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got some fellas.

[James Petregallo]

Got some fellas, some ladies. And they are touring the Northeast doing a soul act, basically doing a bunch of soul songs. Motown shit, stuff like that. Playing clubs up and down the i95, basically. And from Boston to Baltimore, that whole. Which. There's a lot of towns in there. You got Philly, New York, Baltimore. You got a lot going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can really do it.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of population there. So they were in a Howard Johnson's in Hartford, Connecticut.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

And there was TVs up in the bar. They weren't on. The televisions were off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And they started. He said their television was talking to him. No TV without it being on, which that's a problem. If it's on, you can go okay, well, yeah, there's a. You know, Walter Cronkite's up there. Of course he's talking, Talking head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're telling you some stuff.

[James Petregallo]

Clearly something's happening. But, yeah, Archie Bunker's right there. He's talking to you. But this is a different story. This is turned off tv, which is crazy. This is what everyone will call his first clear psychotic break is at this moment in time here in the bar. First, the TV was talking to him. And what the TV was telling him is the important part.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's where it is.

[James Petregallo]

The TV was telling him that there were some men in the bar who were gonna kill him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Mama.

[James Petregallo]

So, I mean, that's a good heads up. Nice tv. Thanks. So then they left. The band left, and they got on the bus that they were traveling on. And on the bus he started thinking that the people on the bus, his band mates and the people who travel with the band, that they were plotting to kill him and were actively going to kill him. So then they get to the motel, like, okay, let's get to the motel. You go in your room and calm down. He started freaking out. He thought the maid was gonna kill him at the hotel. Oh, so he's just gone complete nuts. He went up to his. Knocked on a bandmate's door, is banging on his door, you know, and then he ran away and went back in his room. And they go looking for him, and he's barricaded in the bathroom with a chair against the door on the other side of the room. He took a chair in the bathroom, put it up there, barricaded himself in the bathroom. And they go, alvin, you okay in there, bud?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You got like, just a. Just eat Arby's tonight or what's the deal here? You got a deuce cooking. What's happening? And he says, quote, they're coming for me. Okay, who is coming for you? And he said, can't you hear them? They're using frequencies, the broadcast frequencies. They're coming for me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy. That's when you start going, what do we do with Alvin? Yeah, what do we do? They left him there. They just left. They left the motel and left him there. They didn't take him. They were like, he's fucking crazy. We can't take him down the eastern seaboard like this. This is insane. So they went out without. They went without him. So Alvin got a Greyhound bus back to Milwaukee. Oh, imagine being on that bus with that guy for three fucking days. And he was convinced the whole time. He Was acting real squirrely for three days, convinced that most of the other passengers were FBI agents. Now, okay, that's number one. Who were monitoring his thoughts?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

How do you monitor his thoughts, you might ask?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well. Well, I do ask.

[James Petregallo]

Through the overhead lights in the bus. Oh, those lights turn off. Yeah, that's how he's. That's how they're monitoring his thoughts. They're sitting around him, using the light to monitor his thoughts. And then obviously, you know, jotting it all down. For three days, he's doing this. He's a loaded pistol. When he gets back there, man, he's out of his mind. So by 1970, he experiences his first hospitalization, which is probably for the best. He got home freaked out, melted down for another six months, and then ended up in the hospital, the Milwaukee County Mental health complex in 1970. His diagnosis here is acute paranoid schizophrenia. Duh. With auditory hallucinations. Sure. Not good. Hears things. Thinks there's people there that aren't there. Thinks there's things happening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Alternate realities are happening.

[James Petregallo]

Frightening treatment. They decided to give him Thorazine, which basically they just medicated him to a state where he couldn't function.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Antipsychotics and calming.

[James Petregallo]

He was just walking around in circles, drooling on himself. He was just a complete mess. He couldn't do anything. So now his insurance, I guess whatever insurance he had. Stop paying for this. After six weeks, they said, well, that's enough. Which nowadays they wouldn't even pay for six weeks. They wouldn't pay for two fucking minutes of that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You should be thankful he got anything.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. Back then, they'd actually do it. Try that now. They'd go, oh, well, you're cutting him off the fucking rolls.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, on their side, I could see why they wouldn't want to do that. Because it's gonna be A, expensive, and B, if six weeks didn't do it, what the fuck are we gonna do?

[James Petregallo]

Well, he needs more. That's what I mean. That's why we have crazy people walking around killing people. Because we have insurance companies won't fucking pay for it. Yeah, force these cocksuckers to pay for mental health care. That's a weird thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Boy, is there a. Yeah, Quagmire Bruin there.

[James Petregallo]

That's a mess. A separate mess that we need not get into.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, they can't take care of normal diseases, let alone those outrageous ones.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, health. We meant just physical.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, mental health. Let him kill 20 people. We gotta save a few bucks. I don't care if he fucking, you know, goes in and takes out a school. We need to save a few bucks. What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're barely putting bones back together. The brain doesn't have any bones.

[James Petregallo]

Mental health in this country is not in good shape, man. We're in trouble. We're in a lot of trouble. It's not prioritized at all. I mean, normal people don't even. It's hard. So through the 1970s, he just kind of stumbles his way through. He's singing, he's doing a lounge act, he's got jobs here and there. He did discover something that could help him with the voices.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cocaine.

[James Petregallo]

Co fucking cane. You got it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is it.

[James Petregallo]

You're absolutely right. Absolutely. He discovered, you know what calms them down? Cocaine. You gotta speed them up to calm them down. That's what it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the mental health. Ritalin.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, they were calling for cocaine. That was the problem. Then they're like, oh, thank you. And then they're good after a while.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now we're good. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's interesting. So by 1978, he's selling Coke too. Oh, yeah. Because he works in places like Chicago. He'll do a show and then he'll buy a bunch of coke and then he's gonna go tour a bunch of small towns in Wisconsin where there's no coke, where you can sell coke for three times what you bought it for in the big city. So there you go, they need coke. They need coke. Yeah. These people need it, man. They're all hopped up on curds and beer. They need some coke.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Uber eats you some coke.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. So they're doing it. 1980, he is in Medford, Wisconsin. He had been playing at a bar called the Tombstone Tap, which is a dive bar that basically all of the drugs in town come from as well. That's where you buy drugs. You want coke, you go to the Tombstone Tap. Now, I don't know if this is true or not, but according to the Internet, I'm going to read you a fact about the Tombstone Tap that's going to blow your fucking mind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I bet it's factual.

[James Petregallo]

The Tombstone Tap was the original bar in Medford, Wisconsin, where the Tombstone Frozen Pizza Company got its start in 1962.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That makes all the sense in the world.

[James Petregallo]

It does, it does. It really does. So that's especially. That's like a bar pizza, frozen pizza. That's considered a bar pizza. Those used to be free back in the day at bars.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

In The Midwest. You know the reason why in Chicago they cut it into tiny squares? Not just to be frustrating and to ruin the fucking pizza. They did that because they were free. The bars would put those out like pretzels or peanuts and people would eat them. And that would keep them drinking. And so that they cut them into the smaller squares so they'd have more pizzas for everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Makes all the sense. And these little towns, they all still have frozen pizzas there. They're. Do you have food here?

[James Petregallo]

No.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We got pizzas though. We'll make you a pizza.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You'll make me a fucking pizza?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You'll heat me up a Red Baron. Thanks a lot. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They got a toaster oven back there and they make a shitty pizza.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I'll eat it when you're drinking. Who cares?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's not bad.

[James Petregallo]

So they said the bar was named because it was located across the street from a cemetery.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

While the bar itself no longer exists in its original form, the city of Medford is still home to the company's roots and its manufacturing facilities.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, they're still making that garbage?

[James Petregallo]

Apparently. Yeah. The Tombstone Tap was opened by Pep and ron Simic in 1962. They started to make pizzas to get people into the bar and keep them drinking. Pizzas became super popular. So they started selling them to other taverns in the area. Eventually outgrowing the bar's kitchen. They had to move into a manufacturing facility in Medford. And then the company was sold to Kraft Foods in 1986 and now is owned by Nestle. So that pizza is so far removed from being a Wisconsin bar pizza. Now it's been passed around by multiple multinational conglomerates.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Turned into some bullshit. What do you want on your tombstone?

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. So here he is. Jesus Christ. He's being a salesman at this point. Alvin. He's a coke salesman. There is an undercover operation at the Tombstone Tap by the police about cocaine sales. It's a three month investigation and Alvin ends up being caught with two ounces in his car. Two ounces of coke.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dang.

[James Petregallo]

Back then too. That's a lot of coke back then. Sure is. In his Buick Lesaber. So then they went and searched his motel room at the Starlight Inn and found another 4 ounces of coke there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Old boy had 6 ounces.

[James Petregallo]

He had 6 fucking ounces of coke.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That is a lot of coke.

[James Petregallo]

He is the major distributor of the area. He's it. Yeah. Yeah. So the arrest reports noted that he was quote, cooperative but appeared to be responding to unseen stimuli in Other words, fucking crazy. Yeah. Cooperative, but also answering questions from the air that nobody asked and, you know, saying stuff is bothering. They could tell he's nuts. So he goes to prison, to Waupun, which from 1980 to 1983. And inside the joint now, he's not getting medication. He doesn't have his cocaine to keep the voices at bay. So nothing to keep the voices at bay. No music to play either. He is just insane in jail, voices like crazy, talking to himself, yelling at nothing, acting like a fucking lunatic at all times. A prison psychiatrist noted thusly, quote, patient believes he receives divine missions through electrical devices. God will contact you through the toaster. Don't worry, it'll be there. God's gonna contact you through the cur iron. Keep your ears open. You know what I mean? Holy shit. Quote, particular fixation as being on being chosen as God's soldier to eliminate evil from Earth. This is not good. When someone feels they've been divinely tasked to clean up the garbage, that's not a good thing at all. Then said prescribed Haldol, but compliance questionable. He does not like meds, is the other problem. When you get somebody who's detached from reality and does not like meds, that is bad. Because at some point they voluntarily have to take medicine or be crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What are you gonna do about this? You gotta have been there for a long time, right?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. In 1983, he's released early for good behavior. This is good behavior or pain in the ass.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Such a pain in the ass that we call it good and let him go.

[James Petregallo]

Sure, he's talking to people and he's yelling at the electrical outlets, but he hasn't stabbed anybody. So in prison, that's considered good behavior. Nobody. By the way, the state doesn't follow up on any psychiatric recommendations. No. Like, nothing. They don't say, like, you have to go see somebody who then makes you go see a shrink. None of that shit. They just say bye and release him out into the wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So he goes back to playing music because that's the only way he can make a living, really. And that's what he knows how to do. So he does that. He just gets gigs here and there. And it's been three years, so his networks are kind of crumbled a little bit, but he was doing it. He comes back to one place he had worked before called the Lamplighter. And a bartender there named Martha said that Martha's a hot piece of ass. As we know, obviously, from earlier episodes. Quote, he was different after prison, still Charming, still had that voice. But sometimes he'd stop mid song and stare at nothing. I did it. My fuck's going on over there. Hey, turn that light off. It keeps talking to me. Like, turn the ceiling fan off. I can't take it. Quote, like he was listening to something nobody else could hear. Because he is. He's listening to voices that other people don't hear.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're talking back.

[James Petregallo]

They are talking back. Yeah, he's listening to shit. He based himself out of Eau Claire, renting a series of shitty apartments, motel rooms, just kind of in that area. Eau Claire, by the way, is very near Menominee. It goes Menominee, Springbrook. Two separate words, because there's a. By the way, there's another spring brook in Wisconsin. That's one fucking word. This is Springbrook. And then there's a Clare over there to the east. Now, he based himself there, and that means he can go from there to the Twin Cities, down to Madison and back and play gigs that way. A little kind of triangular tour, basically, that he does. He works at the Paradise Inn in West Bend. Paradise Inn in West Bend is the place where he attacked Paul's Wick later on. Oh, right. So he's working there, doing stuff there. They take him back at the Tombstone, even though he got busted selling massive amounts of coke out of there. Hey, he's a good singer. What do you want?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And sometimes people deserve a second chance.

[James Petregallo]

They do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Who knows?

[James Petregallo]

He was selling Coke. It was 1980. He wasn't doing coke and selling coke. Who cares? And also at the Lamplighter that we mentioned before, which is in Menominee, September 1983, he's prescribed medication. Oh, I don't know what it is, if he went in or was feeling off. But he's prescribed Thorazine again. But he stopped using it after two weeks. Telling a psychiatrist, it makes me unable to perform, which I can totally understand. You can't go do an engaging stage show on Thorazine. That's incredibly crazy. Imagine going up and trying to do a half hour of standup on Thorazine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Anything like I was gonna say on anything. I've done on plenty of different drugs, but not that one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not one like that. Ones that make you more sedative.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

No. Well, weed. Weed. You know, mushrooms can be a sedative. Sure. Yeah. If you had plenty of edibles, booze, that's a sedative, all those. But not Thorazine, which is like Thorazine Is like when they're wrestling an elephant to the ground. They're like, hey, stick it in. Just get them. They hit him with the Thorazine? Yeah, yeah. There's some giant lunatic in prison or some shit. So January 1984, he's given a Haldol prescription. He never fills it. Oh, just given a prescription. He doesn't go to the pharmacy and get it done or anything. 1984, in June. Here he is hospitalized briefly in Milwaukee, but He's released after 72 hours. They hold him for 72. Can't hold him any more than that unless he's a danger to himself or others.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What year is that, though, that they're doing this?

[James Petregallo]

84. 84.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They don't know what the fuck they're doing yet?

[James Petregallo]

No, they don't have any idea. Just sticking with the Thorazine. Yeah. Did that work? I don't know. That's all we got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Did you give him Haldol? He didn't take it well.

[James Petregallo]

Weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know, man.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what to tell you. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you how to be Safe with SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. SimpliSafe is the home system number one that we use and that we trust. Homes, studios, everything is trusted to Simplisafe because they do it right. And now they're having this amazing Black Friday sale, the early access Black Friday sale. It's so good. That's the thing. Security. What is it? Security? Normally it would be someone breaks in a loud thing, woo, woo, woo. And then they steal all your stuff, murder your whole family and leave.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now we gotta check it.

[James Petregallo]

Great. And it's gone. Woo, woo, woo. Still, who cares? You're hoping someone calls. No, that's not what it is. Because what they do, it's a different thing. They're stopping crime before it starts. They are proactive with Simplisafe. This is how you do it. There's a way you can stop someone from actually entering your home. Because Simplisafe, they will. They have active guard, outdoor protection, AI powered cameras that detect threats while they are still outside your home and alert real security agents. This is huge. They take action while the intruder is still outside. Number one, they yell at the guy, get out of here. Stop those tracks. Go. What are you doing? I'm calling the cops right now. They let them know they're being watched on camera. There's cops on the way. And even sounding off a loud siren, triggering a spotlight if needed. This is how you do it. This is how you stop people from doing this. If you listen to small town murder, you know you gotta stop it before it starts. Once they're in, it's way too late. So I'm telling you, you gotta get Simplisafe. There's no long term contracts. That's wonderful, that's huge. No hidden fees. You can cancel anytime. Named best home security system by U.S. news and World Report for five years running.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

November 1984. Okay, he is. Things are going little sideways for him. Obviously he meets a friend. Everybody needs a friend. Sure. Everybody needs a friend. And he does. He meets a friend named Robert Williams. Not Robin Williams, Robert Williams. Old Bobby Will here, he's 38 years old. Williams had moved to the Eau Claire area in June 1980 when he had found a job at Cray Research in Chippewa Falls. Okay, so he does computer stuff. He's a computer guy. Basically. He works at this point in 1984 for NCR Corporation in Eau Claire, installing and maintaining computer systems for businesses trying to, you know, basically this is the beginning of the computer age. So there's tons of businesses that are going from paper to computers at this point in the 80s. Like they're getting their first computer system. And so being a computer guy that installs that kind of shit's a very good job back then for that sort of thing. So he's divorced, he has no kids. Old Bob Williams here, he meets Alvin Taylor at a bar in November of 84. Alvin was playing at the bar. It's Charlie's west side Bar is the name of it. He was playing his. It was a Friday night, he was playing his stuff, he was singing everything. And Bob Williams here, he requests. He put a request up there. Hey, can you sing this? Sure. Fuck it. He sang, he asked for Fly Me to the Moon. Frank Sinatra standard. So. And Alvin Taylor was like, fuck yeah. Right in my Wheelhouse, no problem. So he sang it. And after his set, they started talking and they. They both really love Frank Sinatra music. So they were talking about Frank Sinatra for a while. And they're both fans of the Cincinnati Reds baseball team.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So yeah, that's good.

[James Petregallo]

They're like, oh, you're a Reds fan. I'm a Reds fan too. Which is in the middle of nowhere in Wisconsin. Probably isn't that common for you to be a Reds fan? You know what I mean? Maybe brewers, maybe Cubs or White Sox or Twins even, because you're an hour away from there, but probably not the Reds. So that's something that you would, you know, notice about someone and talk to them about. Now, Bob himself was kind of a lonely guy. He was divorced semi recently and not doing real well with it. That's why he's out by himself at a bar on a Friday night requesting Fly me to the Moon rather than being with significant others or friends or anything like that. Bob's sister said Bob was lonely. Oh, the divorce hit him hard. He was always looking for friends, for connections. When he told me about this singer he'd met, how they were hanging out, I was happy for him. God, I was so happy for him. That's what she said. So they started hanging out and became good friends. And Alvin doesn't have a lot of friends that he hangs out with and neither does Bob. Yeah, well, he's got those friends. They're mainly. They're mainly adversaries though, really, I think. So they developed an actual friendship. Bob would go to Alvin's shows and all that kind of shit and they drink together. And Bob sometimes would do kind of roadie work for him. He'd just help him. He'll help you move your speaker in or whatever equipment he had. He'd help him with that kind of shit. And Alvin would call Bob and they would hang out and, you know, do their thing. Here is, oh, we're gonna have Alvin's Funtime journal entry again here. It's Alvin's Funtime journal time, okay? December 12, 1984, from Alvin in his journal, quote, Bob Williams. Okay? That's what we're talking. His friend Bob Williams. Bob Williams Dash sent by all caps them. Uh huh. Bob Williams sent by them. Pretends friendship. But monitors. He writes. Yeah, Electronic surveillance through his computer knowledge. That's what he. So somehow his knowledge of computers allows him to be able to rejigger the electronic equipment, to be able to monitor him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

At the request of, quote them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Them.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, whoever that is. Okay, then we have Alvin's Funtime journal entry from July 3, 1985.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Williams asking questions. Too many questions. Where do I live? Where do I go? You know, like a friend would ask you normal questions about yourself. That's considered. Like, if you ask somebody if you were an alien, you got dropped down and you went to people and you go, well, how do you make a friend with somebody? What do you do? How do you show interest? They would say, ask them questions about themselves. That shows you're interested. Right? That's how you do that shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

On first dates, they often say, don't just answer questions, ask questions.

[James Petregallo]

Where do you live? Where do you go? Things of that nature. What are you interested in?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes or nos. Ask about them.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, don't just talk about yourself, ask about them. That's the whole way you do it. Where do I go? Where do I live? FBI question mark. CIA question mark. And then all caps. The force warns me, oh, it's saying, beware. Beware of Bob Williams because he's asking too many questions about where he lives and where he goes. And he must be in this FBI, CIA. Here's the thing. I don't know what he thinks the FBI or CIA is interested in him about. He never seems to say, like, they're after me. Because, A, B and C, it's just. They're just after him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're just after me.

[James Petregallo]

Shows how exactly crazy he is. He doesn't even have, like, a Step B for them. Step one, find out everything about Alvin. Step two, we'll work on that later.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's after Alvin.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Early 1985. Now, okay, because that was 1-3-85. Was that last journal entry. Sure. Early 1985. This is in Springbrook, Wisconsin, which is between Menominee and Eau Claire. And it's a little town, Spring space. The one with the. Yeah. Spring space. Brook. This says there's nothing here. There is not a restaurant, a gas station and a fucking thing here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is there a spring or a brook?

[James Petregallo]

Neither. So Alvin finds a farmhouse to rent here. It's super rural, so it's gonna be cheap if you can find something. Basically, this is a white. Kind of a shitty white house, basically. Shitty white old house with peeling paint, but surrounded by 40 acres of woods and land, basically, nearest neighbors, over a quarter mile away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is what Alan needs. First of all, if you're gonna fuck with music, this is nice. You're not disturbing anybody. And if you're gonna be an insane person, this is probably the best place for you to keep You.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

At everybody's hair now. Very private, all that kind of thing. The landlord said he paid six months up front in cash.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So you're not gonna even ask a background? You're not gonna ask any follow up. Where do you live and where do you go? Where do you go? If someone pays six months advance in cash.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Six months advance. I'll fuck off. Do whatever you want for six months.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, he said. Said he needed somewhere quiet to write music. I didn't ask questions. Cash spends. I didn't ask. I had cash in hand. So I said, great, see you. Fuck it. That's hilarious. Cash spends. So the farmhouse becomes his home base. He's always. I mean, he's only here a few nights at a time and he's out on the road or he's out doing something. He's always moving, always doing shit. And also the voices are still happening. So they tell him to go places and do things. It's a lot more of Alvin's Funtime Journal Here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Alvin's Funtime Journal. March 18, 1985. Quote, the television confirms. First of all, the television doesn't confirm anything. Well, it just puts stuff out. There's no to confirm. Mean you'd have to put info in and then they. No, it's just. It's just telling you shit. The television confirms. Williams equals demon operative.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Bob Williams, equal sign, demon operative, obviously. Elimination authorized by divine frequency. Oh, so through the television, yeah. He has been told that Bob Williams is a demon operative. And I assume, you know through the bedside lamp that divine frequency has been authorized. Has authorized him to eliminate Bob Williams is what he's saying. Okay. July 15, 1985. Alvin Taylor calls Bob Williams that morning. Says, hey, why don't you come over tonight? You should come over, hang out tonight. I'm working on some songs. And I got some new songs I'd like to play for you on the piano. And I could sing them and you tell me what you think of them. And you know, bring some beer and we'll hang out and play some music and whatever fun Friday night, you know. So Bob Williams drives his. He's got a 1982 Ford Escort. So he's doing great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's about 40 minutes from Eau Claire to Springbrook. From where he was to Springbrook, he stopped at Fuzzy's liquor store. Fuzzy's liquor store got a 12 pack of Miller High Life. Oh, baby. Yikes. Your stomach is going to be hating you tomorrow. The receipt is timestamped at 6:47pm so we know that's when that happened. Okay, we assume he went over to the house. That is July 15th. It's a Friday night now. By July 18th on Monday morning, Bob Williams doesn't show up for work. Oh, at the computer place. So they, the work calls his house and they talk to his ex wife Willie. She probably divorced him because her name was Willie Williams and decided that was ridiculous. You can't do that. So she had to get a divorce. So she tried to find him too. Based on what the work people said, she couldn't find him. She files a missing person report with the police on July 20. So they do an investigation, but it's pretty minimal in 1985 because there's no, he doesn't have any like, you know, history of mental illness or like regular illness or anything that would make you like afraid that he's like, you know, dead in the woods somewhere. He fell over while going for a walk. He's got, he's been some. He's been depressed a bit. He's just divorced recently. They go to his house, everything's in place, nothing looks weird. So they're like, what do we do with this? It's probably just some guy couldn't take it anymore and took off. His apartment looks depressing. I'd leave too, you know what I mean? Like, who knows, you know, he's a grown man. If he wants to leave, he can leave. Leave him alone. And especially because it's the ex wife calling it in. They're like, fuck it, maybe he doesn't feel like fucking talking to her. Maybe that's why she's mad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's not getting shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And also, yeah, if your ex wife is talking, you're like, yeah, maybe I wouldn't call my ex wife back either. And she's gonna call the cops. And now they're over at my house and so they're like, eh, fuck it, he's fine. She's probably just trying to get away from this lady, whatever. So that's that. They don't. After a couple weeks, they don't even think about it anymore. File goes in the back of the cabinet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh God.

[James Petregallo]

Probably took off. What do we care? Adults are allowed to leave. Basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he's out being a guy somewhere. Leave him alone.

[James Petregallo]

Leave him alone. Maybe he's getting some.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Maybe he started a new family.

[James Petregallo]

Who the hell knows? He could do whatever he wants. Maybe he went to Canada just to try the syrup. You never know. Maybe he's ricing in northern Minnesota. We don't know. So that Friday after the Monday he's reported missing. He continues performing. Alvin does. He performs at Charlie's west side bar that Friday. The same one sang Fly Me to the Moon. Even Bob's favorite. No Bob, though I don't know if he thought maybe that would make him materialize. If he sang Fly Me to the Moon, Bob would appear. But he did. So where the hell is Bob? Let's find out what actually happened to Bob, shall we? Here. Okay. Now, they were sitting on the back porch. Bob came over to Alvin's house. They're sitting on the back porch drinking beer and just hanging out. The sun is setting. There's corn fields they're looking at just sun setting, chillin. Nice night. Yeah, he's gonna play some songs. High Life, actually it is highlight, not mgd. It's High Life is diarrhea fuel. That's bad. Yeah. So Bob was talking about his job, was talking about computer systems and a new code that he was, you know, working on. And he's coding different things. Alvin doesn't know shit about what this means, but he's nodding along, you know, just listening to people. You know, you listen to people's very specific work things and you're like, I don't know what that means.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Professional references. And they got acronyms and shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they got jargon. They got fucking jargon. Oh, your TPS report. Great. Yeah, we know all about that. Like, who the fuck knows what you're talking about? So then according to Alvin, while this is happening, quote, then the message came through.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, then he got a brain fax.

[James Petregallo]

The message. Yeah, not through the radio this time, through Bob himself is what Alvin said. Yeah, they used Bob, quote, his voice changed, became their voice. Demonic, threatening. So Bob was just talking about computer code and then he was like. Yeah, so you got to put in the thing that he's like, I will eat your soul. Oh, shit. Wow, that's a lot. Give me sugar. Either that or he's like, you know, talking about Ms. Dos. He started getting into computer shit that way. So Alvin said when this happened, he said he got up, politely excused himself. Excuse me a minute, Bob. I have to go inside for a second. Went inside, goes into his bedroom, grabs a.357 Magnum out of his dresser drawer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh shit.

[James Petregallo]

The fact that this guy has a.357 Magnum is terrifying.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[James Petregallo]

Completely terrifying. Yeah. This guy, you shouldn't. He shouldn't be able to have a fucking rubber Band and a nickel. Like, never mind an actual weapon. This is crazy. What the fuck? A Dennis the Menace slingshot would be a lot for this guy. So he comes back out. Bob still starts talking again. They were just oblivious to the whole thing. They're just beer chat at this point. So as they're talking, out of nowhere, Alvin just raises the gun and shoots Bob right in the fucking head. Wow. Through the skull, right above the right ear. Okay? Bob falls forward, beer bottle breaks on the ground, the whole deal. Then he shoots him again, as if a.357 to the side of the head at close range wouldn't do it. Shoots him in the torso. This time, Bob falls off the chair, so he's obviously a goner. Alvin comes over, stands over him, aims at his head again, fires again, quote, to make sure the demon was expelled.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, you got a vent.

[James Petregallo]

It's the thing, the two shots might not. I mean, he might be dead, but the demon could still be in there. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Another shot running his gut shot him in the gut. It ran to his head.

[James Petregallo]

Now he's got to open the door to let him out. You know what I mean? It's. It's like having a. Like a raccoon gets in your living room. You got to. You can't close up the whole house at that point. You gotta open all the doors so he can run out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Apparently he first started thinking of killing in 1984, the year before. And, you know, he liked Robert Williams. He said he liked Bob, but he thought Bob had killed someone. Then at one point when he was in town, okay, I don't know which town this was, but in one of the small towns, Alvin heard a small child say to him, quote, yeah, get rid of him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gotta get him.

[James Petregallo]

So somehow these entities talked to him through a small child and told him, yeah, get rid of him. Which obviously Taylor, Alvin met, took as I should kill my friend Bob, gotta shoot him three times because a small child told me, yeah, get rid of him. So where does he put Bob? Where? Well, before this happened, Taylor spent three days. Alvin spent three days digging a hole in the outside. Three fucking days prior to this. He had this planned. He had a very large grave, 6ft deep, 4ft wide. Not a fucking. Not a shallow grave. He's gonna just put some twigs and leaves on it. He did. He dug a fucking grave like a psycho. So, yeah, six by four is not bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, he clearly knew what he was doing.

[James Petregallo]

That's insane. So that's crazy. He did all of that this is behind the farmhouse where the property meets a tree line right up there. He also went to Hansen's Farm Supply the previous week, by the way, before he killed Bob and bought £50 of quicklime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he told them that he needed it for pest control, which. There's better things to use for pest control than quicklime, by the way, Everybody, they have poison you can put down.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Kills everything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You just use Juicy Fruit.

[James Petregallo]

That's whatever you want. So he dragged Bob by the ankles. He later would completely come. Cleaned the blood trail with bleach, by the way, dumped Bob in the hole, poured in all the quicklime, filled up the hole, and then he planted tomatoes over it. Over it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Put tomatoes in there. I'll do it. He writes on July 16, 1985, in Alvin's Funtime journal entry again, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He really a Bose fella? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, quote, first demon eliminated.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got one.

[James Petregallo]

First one, by the way. Not the demon. Got that demon. No, first one on the list of demons. First demon eliminated. The force pleased. Okay, that's good. More work to come.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's some more down the road.

[James Petregallo]

August 1985. Okay, this is fucking crazy. He's still at the farmhouse in Springbrook. Okay, he's eliminated a demon. The Force is pleased. So Bob is buried in the backyard under some tomatoes. He then brings in a tenant into the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's gonna sublet.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's got a sublet? Yeah, he's, you know, not making that much doing his gigs here. A guy named Marcus Henderson, who's 24 years old and he is a graduate student at UW Stout, studying agriculture.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. He later said he was a good landlord. Bob was quiet. Traveled a lot for his music. Sometimes I'd hear him talking to himself late at night, but, hell, I talked to myself during thesis writing too. He thought he was just like songwriting. So you talk to yourself about it? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sometimes you got to say it out loud.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. If you're a con. I've said jokes out loud. Can I say those words together? Do they sound right? I've done that before. Usually not for hours at a time. Maybe once, but still, we'll let it go. This guy lived there for 18 months.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Never noticed anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Year and a half.

[James Petregallo]

Year and a half. He did complain about a weird smell from the backyard at one point, and Alvin blamed it on raccoons. Get under the deck and die.

[Jimmy Wissman]

People say that a lot, don't they?

[James Petregallo]

That is the Poughkeepsie serial killer. The Kendall Francois guy. That was. I know my mailman did his mail stuff and knows all those. So when that all happened, all the mail men, like, gossiped about it. And multiple mail men had noticed the smell. And he told multiple mail guys, these fucking raccoons nest under here and then they die under my porch and I can't get to them. And that's why it stinks. Meanwhile, he had so many bodies in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Eight, eight, nine in there.

[James Petregallo]

So many bodies in there. Unbelievable.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But that's what Dahmer used to say to his grandma, too. I found that smell. It's a raccoon under the fucking porch.

[James Petregallo]

I can't get it. It's just what works, man. Especially in Wisconsin. Seems like these raccoons get in everywhere. People just believe you and they just explode everywhere. Oh, they get under there, they can't get out. They get in, but they can't. Very lazy once they find a place to lay down. November 1985. Alvin takes a little visit to the hospital. Little visit to the ER this time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. The report from the hospital says, quote, patient reports radio waves attacking brain. Yeah. They gave him sedatives and refused to admit him and sent him away. Oh. So he reports radio waves attacking the brain. And they went, take a couple of these and follow up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You need a nap. That's all.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Okay. Wow. Okay. February 1986. He goes to a psychologist at this point, or a psychiatrist, actually. I'm sorry, a Dr. Martin Kellner. He goes for three visits and then stops showing up. Oh, no, not good. Now, in Dr. Kellner's notes, he writes, this patient presents with fixed delusions of divine mission. So he was telling the psychiatrist the truth?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He wasn't making shit up. He said, I hear fucking voices and they're telling me to do shit. With fixed delusions of divine mission. Believes he receives commands through electronic devices to, quote, eliminate evil, high risk for violence. Recommended immediate hospitalization. Patient refused. Unable to meet criteria for involuntary commitment. Meaning he has no set plan. Or if he said, there's a guy I'm going to go kill, then he could have him committed. Or if he said, I'm going to hurt myself, he could have him committed. But just having things tell me to do shit, but I have no real set plans. You can't commit somebody with that. Unfortunately. Crazy as fuck is what you can say, but then that's all you can do. March 3, 1986. Alvin's Funtime Journal entry. Let's do it. What do we got?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let us hear it. Al.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He said quote the. Wow. The force speaks directly now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

It stopped. That's nice that it stopped going through too much force.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know, it's figured it out. No need. No need for radio or television intermediaries. Those fucking middlemen. That's the problem. They jack the price up on everything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you've heard of the game telephone. It fucks things up.

[James Petregallo]

I am chosen. I am the sword of righteousness. Oh, the sword of righteousness.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's some shit that Samuel Jackson said in Pulp Fiction, right?

[James Petregallo]

That is Ezekiel 25:17. I think that's what that is. The righteous man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think that also was a made up verse that they.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think it's real. So funny. Or might be like an amalgamation of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A couple of things together.

[James Petregallo]

I know zero Bible. So if it is real, that's the only part of the Bible I know. If it's not real, I just know zero about the Bible.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that one about the. About the. When there's one set of footsteps. Is that in the Bible?

[James Petregallo]

I think that's just in grandmother's posters in their bathroom. I think that's only. That's what that is, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I've never seen in any other place but old ladies bathrooms on a wall. So he is the sword of righteousness. That's nice to know. Now the voice, because the psychiatrist said, describe the voice to me that's going into your head. He said it sounded like his voice, but perfected.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sounds a lot like my own voice. But perfect, but not how it comes out of my face.

[James Petregallo]

Basically, if Frank Sinatra lived in my head. That's what it sounds like. That's perfect. It told him about the Demon Network that was infiltrating Wisconsin. Oh, they have come to Wisconsin. They want your cheese. It's happening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The Demon Network. It's in the grocery store in the meat aisle. That is three fucking aisles.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, do you get the Demon Network? Nah, my cable system doesn't have it yet. Shit. I hear the Demon Networks coming to Wisconsin. Is it awesome? Holy shit. Ordinary people he thought were actually vessels for evil. Yeah, but only he could see that though. He's like Roddy Piper. And they live. He's like Rowdy Roddy Piper with the glasses on. That's really an alien. And not only could he see them. Obviously if you're the only one who can see them, who can stop them? Yeah, just you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I got a question about. Let's not stop. How did it start? You fuck. Where did this come from?

[James Petregallo]

Who knows, man? It's been so long. You know what I mean? That's the thing. We don't know when this started. I assume schizophrenia usually starts in like teen years, into the early twenties, something like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It could be birth sometimes, and sometimes it's also trauma that triggers it.

[James Petregallo]

You never know. And he's been hit a lot, but.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There'S plenty of reasons.

[James Petregallo]

But usually it's that 15 to 23 is the range where schizophrenia pops up. Who knows? So, May of 1986, let's go to James Severson.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

S E V E R S O n Severson. He's 42 years old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Two years later, nobody has a fucking clue where.

[James Petregallo]

Everyone thinks Bob left.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bob is gone.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Bob disappeared and now he's got an ex wife. She called the cops once, that's her thing. She forgot about it. He's got no one really looking for him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's just pissed he left two years ago.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she's probably happy. Maybe she's not getting alimony. I don't know. So, James Severson. This is at the Paradise Apartments in eau Claire. Apartment 1A is where James Severson lives. Okay. He's 42 years old. He's an unemployed machinist at this point who is currently going through his second divorce. Yeah, yeah. There's a couple of cans of Paps on his bed nightstand at the end of the night, put it that way. And he is. He's drinking Jim Beam. And everybody says that he stands on his balcony at odd hours of the night just smoking cigarettes. Just smoking and smoking and smoking. One neighbor who lived upstairs said Jim was nosy. Jim Severs. Severson. Jim was nosy. Always watching people come and go. Made comments about everyone. Creepy, but harmless, or so we thought. Oh, ooh, let's find out if he's harmless. So Alvin moves in next door. Yeah, okay. By the way, Paradise Apartments, no relation to the Paradise Inn, which is the place where he attacked Paul's wick that time. Okay, this is a ground floor unit, apartment 1B, right next door to James Severson. So if you're an unemployed guy with a lot of time on your hands and you like to be nosy, this guy is the ideal neighbor to have Alan moving. He's got all sorts of shit to be nosy about. He's leaving, he's coming and going, doing weird shit, talking to himself. He's fun. Now. He's always out there, though, Severson, smoking and watching everybody. What do you think? How do you think Alvin takes that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He'S not going to enjoy that. Don't fucking watch me.

[James Petregallo]

He was convinced that Jim Severson was monitoring for quote them. He's monitoring me. That's what he's here for. Even though I moved in next door to him, he didn't move in next door to me. He said Severson was always outside when he came home. That was one reason why always outside when he came home, which he's just always outside. He said he could hear Jim Severson's TV through the wall.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's annoying.

[James Petregallo]

And on the TV he could hear that the TV was giving Jim Severson reports about Alvin. He could hear the reports from the TV about him going through the wall. The TV is a direct communication to the person watching it. It's a personal message. Really. Yeah. You turn your TV on that says, hi, Jimmy, how you doing? Let me give you your updated shit. Your next door neighbor, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's what happened.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You clearly hear us.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's great. So there's that. And also one time while talking outside in casual conversation, Jim Severson asked Alvin Taylor about his travel schedule. Oh, so you're going out of town this weekend. You got gigs lined up. Obvious intelligence gathering. Alvin said, again, not casual conversation. Asking someone about what they do for a living and just being. Trying to look interested. Absolutely evil. Then, oh boy, he found a cigarette butt, a Marlboro Red, just like Jim Severson smokes in front of his door. In front of Alvin's door.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Jim's been here?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. That's was. That's a surveillance device. That cigarette button can monitor Alvin from outside of his door.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that transmits audio, video back to, I assume, Jim Severson's TV next door so he could see what's going on. Yeah, possibly. Yeah. But. Yeah. This cigarette butt is. That's a surveillance device by the door. Watch out. May 14, 1986. Alvin's Funtime Journal. Here we go. He got to say Severson. And then the equal sign, which he likes to use Severson equals Level two Demon. Demon operative.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Level two.

[James Petregallo]

Level two graduated. He's starting to sound like Lori Vallow now. Yeah, this is what Lori Valo and Chad dabell did back and forth of. Oh, he's a. He's up to level six now. Oh, Jesus, we got to get him, like literally crazy shit. But there was at least two of these idiots. This is one person talking to himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Isn't that amazing that they. He was so Desperate to hang on to decent looking woman that he fucking got her to go crazy.

[James Petregallo]

And she's just. She was nuts to begin with. She's so goddamn crazy. She read his books and was like, yeah, me too. Yeah, she went to him. She met him at that fucking thing where he was signing books for like 12 desperate weird people in the middle of nowhere.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's like, I bet I can get butt stuff out of this woman.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, she'll do anything. She's great. Especially if I say that it's ordained. Yeah, God told me. Yeah, he said, he said, you got to do butt stuff or else this person's going to be a level five fucking dark soul or whatever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was a dark person already.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Jesus. So level two demon operative. Constant surveillance, reporting my movements to the network. Oh, the network then must act before he acts Jim or them before Jim acts upon him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Because the network isn't he surveilling him. There's something going on here. Okay. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com youm know it, Jimmy. And I'm telling everybody right now, yeah, the days are getting shorter, it's getting dark earlier. It's a little gloomier out. That doesn't mean that you have to feel like that on the inside. That, that's the thing outside and inside, they don't have to match up like that. This is a good time to know that you're not alone. We all are. We all need to know that now. And so it's, you know, it's tough. So this November, BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on your friends, reconnect with the loved ones and remind people in your life that you're there. It's helpful just to know somebody's there and you'll be happy that they're there as well. It's a nice thing to do and it helps out a lot. And you'll end up saying, why didn't I do this sooner? I should have done this earlier. Human connection is really what you need. And that's kind of what therapy's. That's mostly what therapy is all about. It's a human connection to make with somebody. And honestly, there's nothing bad about therapy. It is good for everybody. Everybody could use it. And BetterHelp is the place to get started with that. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct. They're fully licensed in the US they're matched. The thing about matching with a therapist is huge because that's a tough thing. You never know if you're going to vibe with somebody. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Just a short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And then they use their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate. It means they usually get it right the first time. But if you're not happy, switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. You can't beat that. They want you to get help and really, honestly, it's the best way to do it. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. They've served over 5 million people globally and it really works. With an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. They do good work. And this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Plus, our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] Smalltown Murder that's betterhelp.com Smalltown.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Murder now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

May 21st, 1986. Alvin pays Jim a visit. Alvin had been drinking. Not a lot, he wasn't sloppy drunk or anything, but he was definitely loosey goosey feeling. All right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He knocks on Jim's door. He's got a six pack of Miller High Life too. Like, hey buddy, you got an alcoholic neighbor, you knock on the door with a six pack. He's going to answer. So he opens the door and he says, hey, come on in, buddy. Yes. Got a beer. Come sit down. They're sitting there and he's smoking cigarettes and eating a fucking banquet TV dinner. One of those, the chicken ones that are just little fat balls, you know those. Oh, we've eaten those. And they're watching a Brewers game on tv. Very nice. So they sit, they drink, they're watching baseball. Just normal neighbor shit. Okay? That's normal neighbor shit. That's May 21st. May 23rd. Two days later. Remember, Patricia Holmberg lives upstairs. Said Jim's nosy but harmless. She complains, something smells weird around here. Something smelling weird.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not like something suspicious.

[James Petregallo]

Something weird. It's bad. Yeah. Not something smell funny around these parts. It's actual. You smell that shit? So the next day, May 24, the landlord uses his master key to enter and finds Jim Severson. Jim Severson finds Him in the apartment, not in good shape at all. Very dead. Attacked. Well, okay. The police arrive at apartment 1A and do one of the worst investigations of a fucking dead human being that's ever existed. So they looked at him and just went, single guy fucking drinks and he's divorced and probably acts crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Their assessment was suicide or accidental death during self harm. Okay. Oh, was fucking with himself a detective, one of the detectives said he wasn't sure about that, but that was the determination. He said the wounds didn't match. Too many wounds, wrong angles, but the scene was clean. There was no evidence of another person, so we didn't have enough to call it murder. So it is ruled death by misadventure, basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

He was fucking around. Accidentally killed himself or did it on purpose, but. But it's all him. They said they found no evidence, no fingerprints, no evidence of another person being in there. So how are you gonna say another person killed him when they don't even think anybody else was there?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just bizarre gashes. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Strange. Now, what happened to Severson? Let's find out here. Let's go back to May 21, and when I tell you the actual what happened to him, imagine going in there and going. Yeah, he must have done that to himself, I'm sure. Okay, okay, Listen to this shit. Back to the 21st. Alvin and Jim are watching TV. Then Jim said, so where you been traveling lately, Al? Just real casual. Where you been traveling to? Just. And if you're a guy who sits, you're an unemployed guy who just sits in this tiny shithole apartment all the time, you might want to just hear some stories of other things people are doing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It is fun. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Where you been now, Alvin, rather than asking the question, he gets up, excuses himself to use the bathroom. He's like, I have to go to the bathroom now. On the way to the bathroom, he saw a knife on Jim's kitchen counter. Just one of those shitty, cheap wood handled, serrated blade, crappy steak knives that you buy in one of those sets that comes in, not a block, like one of those plastic things that has forks, knives and whatever in it. One of those. He comes back, Jim Severson had his back turned. He was lighting a cigarette at the time. And Alvin comes up behind him and just plunges the knife into his neck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

Stabs Jim in the neck. He was aiming for the jugular but missed and just hit. Just stuck it in the muscle of his neck. Okay. So obviously Jim Severson screams And spins around and grabs Alvin's fist. And they start fighting around. They're wrestling now, which is crazy in this apartment. He's got a huge knife wound with blood coming out of him everywhere. Alvin's trying to get the knife out so he can stab him again. The blade snaps off in his neck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

So now he's holding a wooden handle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And fighting with this guy. Severson's bleeding, choking. He tries to crawl toward the door to get out. He's trying to get out of there. Alvin grabs him from behind and starts choking him. Okay, interesting. So he holds on to Jimmy's choking him. He's just got. Holding his. Choking the life out of him from behind for just hanging on for dear life here. So he holds on for a while. Finally, Jim Severson goes limp. But he didn't know if. Alvin didn't know if Jim was dead yet. Oh, and the way he put it, the force needs you to make sure he's dead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gotta keep going.

[James Petregallo]

Gotta. So he went back to Severson's kitchen this time. Found a butcher knife, a good sturdy one, something he could really use here. Out of that wooden block there. Comes back and just stabs the shit out of Jim while he's already dead on the floor with a knife blade and him bleeding and choked to death anyway. Stabs him, stabs him, stabs him. Blood all over the place. Now, later on, Alvin will say that was to ensure that the demons were expelled. It was like we found out earlier, if you got to shoot a gun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You got to vent them. That's how it works now. Okay? There's blood everywhere, all over the place. He. Jesus Christ. Alvin strips naked because he's covered in blood, so he can't go back outside like that. He strips naked, puts all of his clothes, bloody clothes, in a garbage bag, then takes Jim Severson's bathrobe and wears that back to his apartment, which is right next door. He then comes back to Jim's apartment with bleach towels and fresh clothes for him to change into. He spends three hours cleaning the place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Not perfectly, because no shit that he's in, but in 1986, decent enough to make the cops go, gee, must have done all this to himself. Wow. Think about what they thought he did to himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he stabbed the motherfuck out of.

[James Petregallo]

Himself, Broke a knife off in his own neck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Choked himself and then stabbed himself a bunch with a butcher knife and that was it. Too many wounds. The one detective said it. Too many wounds wrong. Angles. I didn't think it was a suicide, but that's what they classified it as, so. He also positioned Jim Severson's body to make it look like a suicide attempt. He put the knife in his hand. Yeah. So he's in his own hand and put a bottle of pills like scattered around. Some pills scattered around him like he was taking pills and just looking for any way out. Basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I would have taken the pills, but I was too busy stabbing.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. So how the fuck do you get out of here? You're in an apartment doing all this. He left through the back and drove to Minneapolis that night and did a three night engagement at the Marriott Lounge in Minneapolis. Wow. From there. Now, May 22, 1986, couple days later, this is the day after the murder. I believe Alvin's funtime journal entry. Here we go, everybody. Oh, second demon eliminated.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

The force grows stronger.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's counting them up.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. The force grows stronger. I grow stronger. The work continues.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Holy balls. Okay, now here is one that we're unsure of. We don't know about this one, but this is one that they have gone back and forth on wondering whether he should be a suspect in. In June of 1986 here. It's a morning, 9am A guy named Sheldon Kleeman, who's 59 years old, was the owner of the Palace Theater in Spooner, Wisconsin. Oh, he was found. It's a movie theater. He was found dead lying on the floor near the entrance to one of the two screening rooms of the theater. Stabbed to death. Now his son, this, what is this Clemens son was. Was 22 at the time. His name is Irvin. And he was identified as a prime suspect and remained a principal suspect for years. But Alvin Taylor was also questioned for this. Oh, they questioned him about his possible involvement due to the proximity and timing of the crime within this whole spree. So they'll later question him about this. They never filed charges against him for Clemens murder. And they don't know. They're not positive about the suspicion. That's because there was other suspects. The morning of the murder, at least three men had been described by witnesses as having been in or around the Palace Theater. This is according to the police chief. A local businesswoman described a young blonde haired man, about 5 foot 8 tall, which is certainly not Alvin. No, it was an older black man with no hair, slender build, coming out of the theater that morning. A composite sketch was drawn. They said the witness saw someone coming out of the theater sometime shortly after the homicide. And that's the blonde younger person here. They said that the younger person wasn't the son, Irwin, who basically they said it wasn't him. They said the young person was never identified. We had our suspicions of who it was and that person was talked to, but we couldn't nail anything down. That is part of the problem. It seemed all the things we checked out came to a dead end and it didn't lead anywhere. Another suspect was described by a city worker as a nicely dressed businessman, white but dark complected, 35 to 40 years of age, 175 pounds, six foot to six foot two, who drove away in a dark four door vehicle. Okay, they said for years it was assumed the businessman in question was a local person. But when the witness met the local person that she thought it was, she realized it wasn't the person she saw the night of the murder. So it might have been somebody else. In 1996, the police chief, who's also an artist, that's what I want, made a composite drawing from the witness description and they still never found anybody. Now, according to the police chief, at least one of the three persons seen by witnesses near the scene had been positively identified as an out of town truck driver. And he said, I asked him, are you positive it's him? And he said, I'm positive. The police chief said the third person still lives in the area and has been interviewed by the police at least eight or nine times. And denies being near the murder scene on that morning and also refuses to take a polygraph test. Oh, they said, we've done two interviews in the past couple years. That person just wouldn't talk. He wouldn't tell us certain things, but he wouldn't take a polygraph test either. He said it's important to take the polygraph test to eliminate suspects. He said either he was there or he wasn't. And that's all we wanted to know to rule that out. The theater, by the way, was closed for a week after the murder so they could collect evidence. When it reopened, the son Irwin took over the business and then they ended up closing the theater and selling it. And it reopened in October 24, 1986, and then it was sold again. And it's currently a movie theater at 238 Walnut street in Spooner, Wisconsin. It's one of those cool like small town movie theaters with the marquee outside.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The big marquee? Fuck yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, little like Main street, small town movie theater. It's cool as shit. So that's what's there. 595 seat Palace Theater. So there you go. That was what it used to be. Now they have a liquor license too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh great.

[James Petregallo]

So now you can get booze there, which is awesome. October 1986. Okay, so that we don't know anything about whether Alvin was a part of it or not. October 1986. Alvin heads to a motel. He needs a base that's between Eau Claire and Wisconsin somewhere. So he goes to a motel, the Paradise Inn.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Room seven, as a matter of fact. Remember where we started?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Familiar with that joint?

[James Petregallo]

180 bucks a month. This costs this place a month. A month?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

That is $6 a day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

$6 a day? A day for long term stay. Like if you stay for a month, it's that much. I'm sure it's more per night. You don't walk up and they go, yeah, six bucks over one night. But 180amonth is crazy cheap. That's insane. He's got a room facing the parking lot. Room 7, they said the first week. Model tenant. Alvin was quiet. Paid in advanced advance. Even helped a guy fix the broken ice machine. Okay, great guy. Then there's a guy here named Daniel Lundgren. He's 33 years old. He is the motel manager. That's the guy. He helped fix a broken ice machine. Now Lundgren, this is the same hotel as what happened with Zwick. And we'll get into that. Lundgren graduated Esco High School in Wisconsin here and worked at the Potlatch Corporation. Potlatch Corp. He also attended some college before moving to San Francisco where he worked in a hospital, then served in the Navy for seven years, leaving in 1986 when he moved to West Bend, which is where he is now. His mother and father both died in the 70s and you know, he's just trying to figure out his life here. Basically he manages the Paradise Inn Village Motel and the on site Chinese restaurant as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh yes, managing that too.

[James Petregallo]

Imagine what the Chinese food is like at the middle of nowhere, small town, Wisconsin motel. That can't be good, right? That's gotta be interesting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's real authentic.

[James Petregallo]

That is interesting. Yeah, totally. This, by the way, is one of those, I guess, described as one of those 1960s hotels that just never got renovated. One of those motor Lodge side of the road joints that just looks the same as it did in the 60s. Just a duck dump. It's located on Highway 33 and it's kind of for cheap people. So Lundgren managed the motel and lived in a converted Storage room behind the office. Not even a room. A converted storage room. He's just doing this to save money. He's trying to save money to do things. Tom Chen, who owned the attached Chinese restaurant, said Danny was all business. Up at 5am checking the pool chemicals, fixing broken AC units, himself dealing with the kind of people who rent motel rooms by the hour. I think we know who they are. Tough job, but he never complained. If you can get an Asian guy to say that about you, you work hard. Yeah. You're a hard worker.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If you're like you're getting out, he wants you. He wants to poach you as an employee.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he does. He works for him. He manages the. The Chinese restaurant for Tom Chen. Loves it. He did poach him. Yeah. Now, week two at the Paradise Village Inn, things get a little more sketchy for Alvin. The voices start to come to him through the room's television set. By week three, he became convinced that Danny Lundgren was poisoning him through the air conditioning system. He's sending poison into my room.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's gassing me.

[James Petregallo]

Gas chambering me. Yeah. October 28th, 1986. Now, keep in mind, this is a month and a half, almost two months before the Paul's Wick incident here. Taylor, at this point, Alvin complains that the AC was transmitting frequencies. Complaints to people about that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anything electrical has a. Has a 60 Hz hum.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's got something. November 3rd, 1986. He complains again, this time about electrical interference from the restaurant. Oh, fuck the Chinese. Everybody knows you fry an egg roll. It sends shockwaves throughout the whole building. November 14, 1986. Lundgren came upon Alvin Taylor as he was dismantling a telephone. Taking it apart. One of those old school push button sit on the nightstand. Taking it apart. Yep. Claiming that it was, quote, recording everything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

Not just phone calls, everything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, wait till he gets a load of 20, 25.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God, it's recording. I said, I said something about snowsuits yesterday and now it's trying to sell me snowsuits. What the fuck popped up? That's all I can see. November 20, 1986. Lundgren evicts Danny or Alvin. I'm sorry? Danny Lundgren evicts Alvin Taylor. Now, Lundgren told his friend, I gave him a week to leave. He felt bad for him, so he didn't say, you got to get out now. So I gave him a week to leave. Quote, guy's clearly having some kind of breakdown. Feel bad for him, but I can't have him scaring the other guests. So he kind of gave him a, you know, give me. Give you a week, maybe that'll make you not so crazy. Whatever. So that's November 20th. Now November 30th, 1986. 6:30am Yeah. A passing motorist, this is out on the road, not at the motel, sees a car crashed out on the side of the road and calls it in. At 7am EMTs alive arrive and they find Danny Lundgren in his car, breathing but unconscious, barely breathing in his car. Clearly had a horrible accident on the side of the road. 7:30am he's medevaced to Frode Turt Hospital in Milwaukee. Over the next 30 hours, he'll be sent to three different hospitals for multiple surgeries. Okay. To try to fix this man. Examinations, surgeries. The injuries are too great from this car accident and December 1, the next day at 11:47am Daniel Lundgren is pronounced dead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Cause of death listed as severe head trauma from motor vehicle accident. Okay, this will. Okay, this is gonna unseat that other case of. This guy's got knife wounds and everything. Must be self inflicted. This is gonna overtake that as the worst investigation in the history of Milwaukee.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, great.

[James Petregallo]

This makes sending a 13 year old or 15 year old naked Asian boy back to Dahmer's house. This makes it look like a reasonable decision. This is so much worse police work than even that. Which is horrifying.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tell me more.

[James Petregallo]

This is worse. Okay, so he's this poor Lundgren. He ends up being dead. December 5, 1986, is the funeral for Danny Lundgren. So they do an investigation just of the traffic accident. And it's a traffic accident.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's all it is.

[James Petregallo]

That's that. So he's gone now. What actually happened to Danny Lundgren?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

It wasn't a fucking car accident, I'll tell you that much. Okay, Alvin's funtime journal entry. Here we go, Everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Demon number three.

[James Petregallo]

Demon number three. November 20, 1986. This is dated Lundgren. Equals. He loves the equals. Lundgren equals central node of demon network.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, this is the queen.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's the central part. He's the hive mind. Like he's vecna. Like he's uh. Oh, yeah, yeah. Central node of the Demon network controls the Paradise Portal, meaning the Paradise Motel. Whatever portal is to there must be eliminated before the portal opens fully. Oh, so he's there opening this portal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, November 30th, 1986, this is when this all happened. At 5:15am because remember, that's when he was Found in his car was December 1st. In the morning. I'm sorry, November 30th. They found him. November 30th, at 6:30am they found him. Sure. Now, November 30th, what ended up happening? At 5:15am Danny Lundgren was doing his morning routine. Drinking coffee, walking around the property, checking for damage overnight. At 5:45am Alvin Taylor was waiting in the parking lot with his engine running. And he called out, Danny. He said, I'm leaving today. Because remember, he was supposed to be gone in a week. It's been 10 days. Right. But he said, I'm leaving today, but there's something wrong with my car. So I'm having. Can you take a look at it so I can get out of here? And he said, sure, whatever the fuck gets you out of my parking lot and away from my other guests. Great. So he says, sure. He approaches the vehicle, Alvin under. On the passenger seat, under a newspaper, he had a.38 caliber pistol. As Lundgren leaned in the car to look at the dashboard, Alvin shoots him at the temple. Point blank. Yeah, like fucking. Just boom. Right in the head. The second shot shoots him again, was behind the ear as Danny slumped into the window. Basically shot him again, then shot him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In the forehead three times in the head.

[James Petregallo]

For, to quote, seal the portal.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, you got to close. That closes.

[James Petregallo]

So that close sometimes, but it also, it also closes. That's the thing. You got to close the portal or open a vent to let the demons out. So it depends on whether you're looking for portals or vents really is what you're doing here. So then he dropped Lundgren's body into his own car, a 1983 Chevy Cavalier. Went over to Danny's car, positioned him in the driver's seat, seatbelt on, head tilted like he was sleeping.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. This is fucking crazy. Drove his car out to Highway 60.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Left it there. Goes back to the motel. Picks up Danny Lundgren's car with Danny in it. Drives that out to a rural road near Jackson, Wisconsin. Finds a culvert. Positions Lundgren's car at the top of an embankment.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Puts the car in neutral and pushes it down a hill. Wow. Watches it crash into the concrete of a culvert. Bang. That ought to do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And that was enough for bullets to go through a man's head.

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing. They did 30 hours of surgeries, medevacing. Nobody noticed he had three fucking bullets in his head.38 calibers,38s, not.22s bouncing around.38's a big gun. Three of them, not one. They just said, well, he's got a lot of wounds. He was in a bad car accident. That makes the other police work look good. This is awful. This is fucking awful. Then he walked two miles to where he had hidden his own car because he had hidden it somewhere else. Drove back to the Paradise Inn, packed his bags and took off by seven. Then December 23, 1986, he's still at the Paradise Inn because why not? The guy who kicked him out is gone now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What are you gonna. Yeah, he can't. Can't keep me out of here.

[James Petregallo]

And that's where we get Paul Zwick, the new guy. Maintenance manager doing worker, doing all this type of shit. And that's when something's wrong with my heater. He attacks him with the hammer. Zwick runs away. Don't know who jumped me. There you go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Zwick was gonna be number four?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he was gonna be number four.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

And then that's when he put in his own. In his little funtime journal. The demon was stronger than expected. Young vessel, military training pending. The force says. Wait. Better targets coming. So January 5, 1987, Paul Zwick, like I said, he goes into basic training. Wow, that is. That's crazy. Now, Alvin, after the Paul Zwick attack, he says he assumes that this guy told the cops what's going on. Alvin assumed if he let him, if he got away, he probably went and told the cops he just got attacked and stabbed with a screwdriver and hit with a hammer. Sure. But instead, he never told anybody about it. So Alvin would have been fine to stay put. But he didn't. He took off. He went underground. He jetted because he was scared.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Went into hiding. Thought he was going to get caught. He stopped performing, stopped traveling. Just hid out in Menominee? Yeah, that's it. He gets an apartment at 423 Wilson Avenue in Menominee. Apartment 2B. It's a two bedroom, one bath and has a little kitchen. But it's a very small apartment. Very, very small, but two bedrooms. He needs a roommate too, because he's not performing very much. He doesn't have a lot of money, so he ends up with a roommate named Timothy Hayden. He's a 27 year old kid here. Tim Hayden. Tim is born in Covina, California. He's got parents named Bernard and emma. He's got two sisters as well. Moved to Menominee in 1963. When he was a little kid, they moved from Covina to Wisconsin. At this point in Time. He is working as a night shift custodian at the University of Wisconsin Stout. He's working these nights to pay for the accounting classes he takes during the day. He's trying to be a cpa. So he does math all day, then does maintenance all night and does custodial work all night. Tim is a hard working, studious young man. Absolutely. Tim is trying to make something of himself. And his supervisor said Tim was a good kid, quiet, reliable, always talking about getting his degree and moving to Minneapolis for a real job. And he was so close to graduating right then.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they ended up becoming friends. Tim Hayden and Alvin Taylor. While there was. Apparently they were both working at this musical in Eau Claire. It was a production. It was called Peace Child. It was a production aimed at improving U.S. soviet relations. And that's how they knew each other. And then Hayden ends up moving into the apartment in Menominee. Now they met each other in the fall a few months earlier. So, okay. They had lived together the previous fall for a couple months before he moved into the motel. This is before Alvin moved into the motel. He had lived with Hayden for a couple months, but they had a dispute of somehow a falling out over a woman. We don't know exactly what happened, but there was a woman involved.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know even what same woman they would both be into, but whatever. So they live together peacefully here at this apartment. It's at 408 20th Ave. East. This apartment. Nice coexistence. It helps a lot because Hayden works at night and Taylor. Alvin. Taylor's kind of up all night and sleeps all day. So it works out perfect while he's at work. Dude, that's when Alvin's doing his thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Seeing each other.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He gets home, he's sleeping. So it's great. Then In February of 1987, Alvin started hearing voices in this apartment as well. Through the heating vents.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This time they really just get in there.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. This is very Ike Ibiabucci. Remember him? The boxer? We did. Who? Arizona demons in the air conditioning that was in their house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Was it right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He was calling up fucking H Vac guys going, can you get the demons out of my system? And they were like, sure, I'll come take a at.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look, the vents are so small.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know how to do it. So. Yeah. He also said, claimed that Tim Hayden was broadcasting his thoughts. Meaning Alvin's thoughts. March of 1987, he's taken it to another level. Now Alvin. Alvin is now convinced that Hayden is not some demon. Or some node in a demon network. He's convinced that Hayden isn't even Hayden anymore. He is an alien replacement. A pod person.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He's been replaced by an alien who looks just like him. The real Hayden has been abducted and replaced with a duplicate. That's what happened here now. March 20, 1987, Alvin's Funtime Journal entry. Let's do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

He says, quote, hayden makes move on Sandra. Now we're back to a chick. Remember that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

There she is.

[James Petregallo]

Hayden makes move on Sandra. Alien duplicate using pheromones and mind control.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's got some fucking cologne this summer.

[James Petregallo]

He's got game is what it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he's good at this.

[James Petregallo]

Must protect her. Must eliminate the duplicate. Oh, the duplicate. Yeah. All right. Sandra Cole is the Sandra that she's talking about who was a bartender at Stubbs Bar where Alvin has played a few gigs. Okay. Yeah. He's never, never dated her. Barely knows her. Just know she's the Bart. Just knows. That's where you go to get the fucking free three drinks that the guy promised me for playing the stupid gig.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Order. Order your chicken strips through her is what he said. But in his mind, Alvin thought that Sandra was somehow his girlfriend.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he thought we have a relationship.

[James Petregallo]

We have a relationship. Maybe she might not know it yet, but. But we're hooked up. And that Hayden was trying to steal her away from him. Yeah, he's the guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, Sandra said, quote, I maybe talked to Alvin Taylor three times total. He was creepy, always staring. I told the manager to please not book him anymore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Three times. And he has a relationship.

[James Petregallo]

A relationship of where he needs to protect her and everything else.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

March 25, 1987. It's Tim Hayden's big night out here. He works as a custodian from 6:00pm until 2:30am oh, that's a terrible shift. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wissman]

6:30Pm to 2:30am that is an awful shift.

[James Petregallo]

That's not. That's like one and a half. That's not even second shift. That's first and a half shift. That's terrible.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that a terrible shift?

[James Petregallo]

2:30Am I've never heard of that shift before. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's not a shift. Right.

[James Petregallo]

They made that shift up, apparently. Then somebody comes in at 2:30am and works till 10:30. What the hell kind of operation they run in here? So, yeah, March 25th, into the March 26th. Gets off of work at 2:30am There we go. Now, March 28th. This is the next day, three days later, two days later, at 10:00am, his friends, he's supposed to show up for a lunch engagement the day before, never showed up. And no one can get a hold of him. So at 10am, his friends come over and they find him in his apartment, and he is not alive at all. Tim Hayden. So he's taken to the state crime laboratory where an autopsy is performed, and they say he died as a result of complications from combined assaults to the head and three gunshot wounds to the facial and neck areas.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ooh, dang.

[James Petregallo]

So the police question all of his friends. They question Alvin Taylor because he's his fucking roommate and lives there. Because they had questioned several of Hayden's acquaintances. And they said, well, he lives with this guy named Alvin Taylor. He knows this guy named Alvin Taylor. So they go, we gotta talk to him. So they learned that Taylor had lived with him for a short time in the past and that they got in some kind of beef over a woman and then kind of reconciled here. So they bring Taylor in to question him a little bit. Dale Admin Amundson and Frank Bammert of the Anomaly Police Department, they learned that also through some research about Alvin, they learned that Alvin had borrowed an automatic.22 caliber revolver and a box of shells.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Automatic, revolver, automatic.

[James Petregallo]

And it's got to be. Yeah, it can't be a semi automatic or. That's what it says in the newspaper, though. I just read that. Automatic revolver. I said that. I'm like, that can't be. That can't be a thing. And a box of shells from a Wisconsin Dells man on March 17th. And he had the gun in his possession until returning it to the owner on March 27, which is the day after they think fascinating Hayden died. So he said, I need to. Nope, don't need this now. I'm good. Okay. So here's what actually happened. Yeah. Okay. In February of 87, Alvin said he saw a calendar with a girl on it who reminded him of a girl, of a Sandra or somebody else. Taylor felt that Hayden might hurt that girl. Sandra or someone else.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got the poster up to remind him what she looks like.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said the calendar. He said that the calendar gave him a sign. He looked at the calendar and it spoke to him. And in his mind, the calendar was telling him to kill Tim in a room with a waterbed. Very specific calendar. Very specific. Wow. So Alvin Taylor returned to Menominee, discovered Hayden and got the gun. He said he found out that Hayden had purchased a gun. Yeah. So he Said that's when he said he found out he got there just in a nick of time and he needed to kill him right now. Yeah. Now, what actually happened here? It was March 26, 1987, at 5am Hayden had come home from his custodial shift, took a shower, made a cup of coffee, sat in the kitchen studying for his corporate finance midterm or final or some shit, some test. Here comes Alvin Taylor and he said, hey, good morning. And he said, hey, you're up early. What's going on? And they're talking and couldn't sleep, whatever at that point, by the way, he also mentions the voices. Hayden knows that Alvin's hearing voices. They talk about it all the time. And he said, I couldn't sleep. Got those damn voices again in my head. But so he thought, Hayden is real laid back. He thought, I don't know. I'm an accounting guy, I'm not a creative guy. Maybe musicians are nuts. That's what he thought. Oh, maybe it's a musician thing. Who the hell comes up with those songs? How do you come up with fucking songs like that? Lyrics. I'm sure that you just hear voices and they tell you about how else would you come up with that shit? Or thought maybe he was on drugs. But he said, none of my business. Basically, I'm paying cheap rent, getting myself finance degree or my CPA and I'm out of here, basically. So Tim told him, you should see someone about that, about your voices. And Taylor, Alvin said, he then said to him, he pulled the pistol from his bathrobe pocket. Bathrobe pistol. Bathrobe pocket pistol. That's wild. And said, I did and they told me what to do, meaning I did see someone and they told me what to do. And he shoots Tim in the back of the head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

He slumps forward. By the way, he was on chapter 12, risk assessment. So there you go. He was reading on his thing. He stood there for 20 minutes. Taylor did after he shot him because he expected at that point the alien duplicate would reveal themselves. That was his whole plan. He's going to kill him, then he'll wait for the alien to come and then he can shoot the alien duplic right when it comes out of his body. So he sat there waiting for it, waiting for it and waiting for it. It never happened.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Never materialized.

[James Petregallo]

So then he said, shit, I just killed a person. I didn't kill a. I didn't kill a duplicate. I fucked up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He has a realization.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, oh, fuck. Shit. Fuck. He's not a duplicate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What am I gonna do now?

[James Petregallo]

Duplicate left. Yeah. So. Wow, that's interesting. So then he ends up this. By the way, there's something that happens here that I am not sure is true or not. Because I've seen. I've seen a thing that says it's true and I've seen other things that I don't think it's true. So. Okay, this is Alvin's Funtime911 call. We'll call it. He called and he said, I just shot my roommate. 423 Wilson Avenue, apartment 2B. He's dead. I'm the soldier of God. Had to do it. Not I'm a soldier of God. I am the soldier of God. Had to do it and hung up. Then apparently at 6:35am he called. He somehow got a hold of Sandra Cole, the bartender. Oh, and said, sandra, I saved you. The alien is dead. We can be together now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Now at the same time, Sandra's having a roommate call police and all this type of shit. So there is one story that claims that he was arrested and then let go on $50,000 bail at this point, which.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But we're not sure if that's true.

[James Petregallo]

I'm pretty positive it's not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't call police, tell them you killed somebody and then get 50.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not only that, he doesn't have $50,000 to get bail. So I don't know what they would be talking about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He had a roommate, for Christ's sake.

[James Petregallo]

In a two bedroom, tiny, shitty apartment. So this is the real story here. April 3, 1983, and in Portage, Wisconsin. This is at Tim Hayden's funeral.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

It's a packed thing, the university, that all the people that work there are there, students that knew him, family, everything. In the back row, Alvin Taylor. Yeah, he showed. Now the cops are watching this, thinking he's going to show because they've been waiting, looking for him. So they think he's going to fucking show up. And Dorothy is her, I guess. I'm sorry. Tim's mother is giving the eulogy, talking about her son and all that Alvin said. Stood up and said, tim was my friend. The demons made me do it. Tim understands.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

And no one knew what the fuck he was talking about or who he was. But the police end up running over there, grabbing him. The family's going, what the fuck is this? The killer. It's crazy. A detective said we knew he'd show up. These types always do. They feel compelled to see the aftermath.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So it gets very calculated.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they arrest him on this. He's right there at the church. Take him away, sit him down. And he's got a story to tell.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Boy, does he.

[James Petregallo]

Well, first of all, too, because this is in multiple counties and everything. And they know that he travels a lot, so they don't know where this could end, possibly. They bring in the FBI, too. They bring in other counties, everything. He's been off his meds for weeks. He's not doing well here. First, he just claimed to be Jesus. Car. Jesus Christ. He said, I'm Jesus.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, that one's not a winning argument.

[James Petregallo]

Took about an hour and a half just to get him off the fact that he's Jesus reincarnated. Okay. No good. Hour two, he insisted, I didn't kill the people, but the people who are dead were demons in human suits. Okay?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So I don't even know why I'm sitting here. If I did kill them, you should be thanking me. But I didn't, so we shouldn't even be here. Okay. Then he started talking about what actually happened. He starts telling cops about murders they don't fucking know are murders.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

Because he tells them about Hayden, tells them about others. Then he says there are more. The first demon, Bob Williams, he's in my backyard in Springbrook. Yeah, that's what they said. They weren't even asking about Bob Williams. Didn't know shit about Bob Williams. Never even thought about him. The cops said, quote, we thought he was bullshitting.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

Another delusion. Henry Lee Lucas saying he killed 200 people or whatever. We thought he was bullshitting. Another delusion. But he knew Williams, his full name, description, and exactly when he went missing, so that scared us. He tells them exactly where to find Robert Williams as well. So the next day, they get a search warrant for the property. They get cadaver dogs out there, start excavating. On April 6, April 7, they discover Robert Williams remains. They're like, holy shit, this guy's for real.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And quicklime had preserved him enough for identification as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, it preserves. It doesn't break down.

[James Petregallo]

I thought it made you break down, but apparently this helped him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It stops the smell.

[James Petregallo]

I think it's for smell, is what it is. Really? I thought it was to help break it down, though. Yeah, I thought it was to dissolve it. That's why mob guys use it. You put some lime on there. Anyway, he's decently preserved because he's underground. I guess that helps. Anyway, so this is what they. He tells them about. Starts telling them about that. They said they became aware of the. The cops said they became aware of the grave site in Springbrook. Now, at first in the newspaper, they didn't release that we got this crazy guy and he told us all about this. They said, quote, hearing reports of murder stories, owners of the property became upset, knowing that on their rental property they had seen a hole slowly filling up over a period of time. Then they sent us to check it out. Which they sent you, and you checked it out just happened to be two days after you arrested a guy who did the murder. So that's pretty crazy. They said they studied two sites which could have been construed as graves as well. He had two more holes dug, apparently, out there. The sheriff said the excavating of all of this was done. And they dug for about 20 minutes and uncovered an object that appeared to be a chest cavity covered by some clothing. They called the state crime lab and the site was guarded by officers and did all of that. They said that the case appeared to be a homicide, but it would be strictly speculative to name any one suspect when we have no cause of death. Meanwhile, how about the guy who told you he did it and where the body was buried and what happened? They said the body was encased in a substance that appears to be lime. Neighbors say there that Alvin had lived there a couple years ago on the property where the body was discovered. So anyway, they said they now have received calls from people who have expressed suspicion about other possible graves on both sides of the river and all around the county. Anywhere that anyone sees disturbed earth. Now they think, well, that must be a grave site. Oh, my God. Yeah. If you see a tomato plant growing, watch out, it's a body. Yeah, they said, we'll check out those sites when time allows, basically. Now, back to the interrogation. Severson. Jim Severson. He says, quote, the neighbor in Eau Claire, Severson, May of last year. Check my old apartment building. So they're like, who? What the fuck? Homicide detectives are like, I don't understand. I never even heard of this guy. What are you talking about? So they go in and pull his death report. And it says misadventure. So they go, okay. And they reinvestigate it and look at it. Blood patterns don't match a supposed suicide scenario. It was just lazy. Just completely lazy. They didn't feel like dealing with it kind of thing. Like, I don't know, I'm hungover today. Fuck it. Misadventure. So they said. Also, Alvin Taylor provided details. Only the killer would know about a broken knife still being stuck in his neck. Nobody would know that where he'd hidden the blade fragment, which was, by the way, behind the refrigerator, still there. They didn't find it at first. Now they found it. And also that bathrobe I brought back to my apartment. That's his bathrobe, so you can check that, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's got it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said that Alvin told the cops that he felt bad because Jim Severson suffered when he killed him. Yeah. He said Taylor said he initially stabbed Severson in the neck and the knife broke, and then he choked him. And he said that Severson kept asking him while he was choking him, why are you doing this?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, why?

[James Petregallo]

Why? Why? So that made him feel terrible because he was like, the guy didn't even know it was going on. Then he admits to Tim Hayden as well. He says, all right, fine. He says, I emptied a handgun into him and I beat him with a rifle bullet. He said, I also stole the handgun he just bought so I could sell it. Which doesn't seem very crazy. They said, well, what'd you do when you killed him after Hayden was dead? And he said, I went to a job interview at J.C. penney or Sears. I can't remember which.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really. Just a mall job.

[James Petregallo]

Want to hear the crazy part?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

He got the fucking job.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No way he fucking really performs after he murders.

[James Petregallo]

Telling you he came over with fucking blood on his shoes. And they were like, no problem. Come on in. Can you start Monday?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That's amazing. They also found out that he planned to kill more. Alvin said that he threatened to kill a Portage man and had the tools in his truck so he could dig a grave for him as well. So he was planning on it. He also told police that, whoa, he had a half dozen more people that he had planned to kill. And he had a pickaxe in his car when he was arrested. He goes, that's what I was gonna start my holes with, with that. But I had a list of demons that I was gonna wipe out here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they search his Portage apartment, and they try to get additional evidence here, and they find some shit there. They find. They searched the property, also a property nearby where he had reportedly had target practice with what's believed to be the murder weapon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

38A.

[James Petregallo]

22. On one of these, he said, we hope to find shell casings and spent rounds to link Taylor with the.22 caliber pistol he reportedly had in his possession at the time of Hayden's death. They also have discovered what appears to be a partially dug grave that Alvin had dug in the Portage area. And they said that it looks like he abandoned the project at that time because the ground was frozen, but he was trying to dig a hole. Another one. This guy is nuts. So a ballistics expert with the state crime laboratory examined the spent cartridges found in Hayden's body and positively concluded that all the cartridges had been fired from the same.22 caliber revolver that Taylor had borrowed in Wisconsin Dells from his friend. The police chief also said they also recovered a.32 caliber revolver already taken by Taylor from Hayden's house and sold to a different Wisconsin Dells man. They found that gun. That was the one he stole from Hayden. So I think he took this gun back to the guy he borrowed it from and said, here's your gun back, and would you like to buy another one? Essentially. So that was the revolver that was missing from Hayden's house. So at this point, they go, holy shit. We know of three people he just murdered. Because Danny Lundgren's still a car accident, remember?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So they go, we know of three people that he just murdered. This is how he goes all around. Where the fuck he could have killed 30 people? We have no idea. We got to start. This is just in our area. We got to start checking around. So they entered him into the FBI's violent criminal apprehension program, which allows law enforcement agencies to communicate with one another about similar unsolved violent crimes. At the time, they said. During our investigation, it's been learned that Mr. Taylor has traveled extensively as a result of his occupation as an entertainer. You know, obviously here, they said, information developed by our investigators from a variety of sources suggests that Taylor may be responsible for additional deaths. For those reasons, we've decided to utilize the VICAP to alert other departments with impending with pending investigations. So that way, if anybody else is got a mysterious death that fits this at all, that'll pop up. So they said, when our department is contacted, we'll be able to provide certain pieces of information such as fingerprints, blood type, et cetera, that may link Mr. Taylor to other homicides. Without this valuable program coordinated by the FBI, local law enforcement organizations would have a great difficulty solving multiple cases with a common perpetrator. So Alvin, after that, then, he denies killing Tim Hayden, even though he gave all the details. They all match up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's gonna be this guy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, no, no, no, I didn't do it. And he started telling people that. The police, the district attorney, and the person running the polygraph machine. Because they didn't believe him about that. He's killed this many people, they had to hook him up to a polygraph to make him believe it. He said, they're all in on it, quote, unquote. No, that's what he said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A frame job.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said also the personnel at the Dunn County Jail are trying to poison him. He told the psychiatrist as well, and I'm being poisoned, and I'm being poisoned. Now. The media goes nuts with this shit. Obviously, the local media goes bonkers. Fucking nightclub singer arrested at victim's funeral at the Milwaukee Journal set. That's a big goddamn deal. Big deal. Paul Zwick, also, there's another article we'll talk about that people are real pissed off about. It's at this point that Paul Zwick finally comes forward. Remember, he just took off and went in the Navy. He was stationed in San Diego and saw news coverage of the arrest and said, ah, shit, I better say something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I could have saved lives.

[James Petregallo]

That guy killed a bunch of people. He told the investigators, quote, I knew I should have said something, but I just wanted to forget it happened. So that was it. He located and corroborated the confession, providing key testimony that supported an attempted murder charge against him. April 22, 1987. He is charged with first degree murder in Dunn and Eau Claire counties, waived his right to preliminary hearing in Eau Claire county, and faces first degree murder charges in the death of James Severinson as well. Now he pleads not guilty in Dunn County. Not guilty by reason of mental defect or disease, though, in the first degree murder of Robert Williams of Eau Claire. He's also charged with Timothy Hayden's death and James Severson. Okay, here comes Alvin's fun time court hearing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Here we go. This is a motions hearing. Taylor abruptly decided that this is wild. Out of nowhere, in the middle of the hearing, he said, I'm representing myself now, all right? And it was based on something very pointed. The reason was he's representing himself because of the colors on the public defender suit and tie. He told the judge, he said, the colors on my lawyer suit and tie tell me that I should defend myself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They've communicated it.

[James Petregallo]

They communicated in some sort of Simon form.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Just flashing red and blue lights. And he also believed that he said this in court, that the force became unhappy with the attempted discharge of his lawyer because the jailers did not ask him if he wanted to use the jail's recreation room. So then he allowed the lawyer to stay on. Okay, jailers didn't ask him if he wanted to go to rec that day. That meant that the force was mad at him for dismissing his lawyer. So then he asked for his lawyer back because he doesn't want to piss the force off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. May 6th, he's charged with more murders here. All sorts of murders, different counties, everything else. Now, is he sane?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is he.

[James Petregallo]

That's why it doesn't seem like it. The sanity phase of this all began. This is before you go to trial. You have a big sanity phase just to see if you can go to trial. It gets postponed by the judge. The judge ordered the delay after a defense attorney questioned the defendant's mental competency to proceed. So, yeah, there he goes. He pleaded guilty by. Or not guilty by mental defect here. So the public defender here. Wow. If you're the public defender here. I mean, being a public defender sucks. You got like a whole pile of shit. No time and no money. But in this case. Holy shit. What do you do? He said that Alvin's current competency came into question after he told people that the force was advising him to retain or discharge an attorney. And he said the force represents itself to Alvin in the form of interpretations of events or the gestures and communications of others. Anything you order a grilled cheese. That is a sign from the force. You get it with potato chips instead of French fries. A different sign from the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the fun part. Mental deficiencies.

[James Petregallo]

And that would be fun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Problems is that you can. You can really make a choose your own adventure. Everything that happens all day.

[James Petregallo]

Totally. I mean, besides the murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why do that? We do that. We make a choose your own adventure every day. We just happen to use logic.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Besides the murder, though. This is like a fun old timey mental illness. This is like a sitcom. Walking around in a bathrobe and a Napoleon hat. Yeah. Talking about, I'm doing this and that. Sure you are, buddy. Yeah. You know, I'm the king. I'm the king of Prussia. Oh, okay. Great. The fuck are you talking about? So. So. May 1987, competency hearing. Okay. Dr. Philip Erdman, a psychiatrist for the defense. Man, that's a hell of a job. He said Mr. Taylor suffers from severe paranoid schizophrenia with command hallucinations. Meaning he's not just being. Not just hallucinating. They're telling him to do shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is way different than just hearing shit or seeing shit. He genuinely believes he was instructed by God to kill demons. He cannot assist in his own defense because he doesn't believe he Committed crimes. He believes he saved humanity. All done. Finished. Now, a psychiatrist for the State said while Mr. Taylor is mentally ill, he understands the charges against him. He knows killing is wrong in the eyes of the law, even if he believes it was divinely justified. Yeah, this is a real hair splitter on legalities. So there's three different psychiatrists, three evaluations, same conclusion. Insane, but could possibly stand trial if you medicated him enough, if you dope him up enough, he might not fuck up the courtroom. The problem is he refused to take his medication consistently. He said that it blocked the divine frequencies because he couldn't hear the voices anymore. Because it worked and made him, as he put it, spiritually deaf. Can't hear the voices, man. So you can't force medication unless there's a trial is the thing. If someone's at trial, you can force medication on them so they can participate, but you can't. Otherwise, you can't have a trial without the medication, and you can't have medication without the trial. So we're in a catch 22 here. This is rough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So June 16, 1987, Alvin asked to talk to the detectives. And when they come in, he just starts blurting shit out. This is when he says, I got to tell you about something you don't even know about. Oh, Danny Lundgren. And they said, who the fuck is that? And they said, danny at the Paradise, Three bullets in his head. You buried him thinking it was a car accident. So they were like, what the fuck? They're pulling files out everywhere. And they were like, no, no. They looked at his file, and they were like, no fucking way he killed this guy. This is bullshit. He must have read it in the paper or something, that he died. He said, though, no, I did it. Quote, I felt a force make me do it. I'm a soldier of God. That's what it is. So they were like, what the fuck? He said, yeah, no, Lundgren, you know. He said, I left him for dead in his car. I shot him three times. He wanted me to move out. I didn't want to move out. Shot him, stuffed him in his car, rolled him down a hill. You guys bought it. Fucking dummies. So they exhume him from his grave, which is in Lakeside Cemetery in Minnesota. So it took a minute because they had to get another state involved and everything else. So they pull him out of the goddamn ground. And they're doing it. And the district attorney said, we're potentially talking about a murder here. Whether we have a murder or not. I think is speculation. We must also have to look at the possibility that he may be confessing to crimes that he never committed. It's only Mr. Taylor's statement that even opened up this case. So we think he's crazy. Then they examine and they find that there's metal fragments in his fucking head.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

They said, oh shit. That's the first thing, is to X ray him and they find metal fragments. They go, oh fuck, look at this. They said that maybe a bullet or it may be from dental fillings. Real big fillings. He's got huge.38 caliber fillings. No problem.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fillings just go everywhere.

[James Petregallo]

So they said, how the fuck could a bullet hole, no less three bullet holes, go unnoticed? And the one. Jesus. One of the guys who works in the medical examiner's office said when there's that much damage to the vehicle and to the individual, there's no reason to suspect foul play.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

So just kill your whoever and push their car down a hill and you win. Are you joking?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You have to look for bullet holes at least a fucking autopsy. They go over every inch of your body. They document. Like if you have a pimple, they put that in there on your autopsy. That's crazy. The examination reveals three.38 caliber bullets in his skull. Fuck. They said that the neurosurgeon at Froedart Memorial Lutheran Hospital in Wauwatosa pronounced him dead on November 30, 30 hours after the car accident of cardiopulmonary arrest was cited as the cause of death.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's just heart stopped, right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Cause too much damage. They said this is a very unusual circumstance in the coroner's office. And the coroner's office was never notified of the metal fragments in his head. You've got three hospitals, a flight for life helicopter, a rescue squad and a coroner involved. Nobody saw 338 cowboys.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody saw holes in his head.

[James Petregallo]

Big ones. Wow. They now speculate that he was probably shot in his car, left for dead and revived enough to drive a short distance before his vehicle left the road. No, he wasn't revived enough. He got driven there, put in the seat and fucking pushed, you idiots. But they aren't sure why. Medical personnel didn't notice the bullet wound. One of the guys said it wouldn't have mattered anyway. The massive hemorrhaging was too much. They went through 27 units of whole blood. He would have died anyway, even with specific treatment for the bullet wounds. But it might have helped to try to treat the bullet wounds. I mean, they were 338s in the head. He's dead either way. But you're not treating bullet wounds. You're like, why? I don't get it. We're pumping his heart blood shooting out of three different spots in his head. Why is that? Fuck. And he. He goes on to say, but it's very strange that they didn't catch this. They all took it for granted that it was an auto accident. Somebody missed their diagnostic duties there. Um, this guy said he asked the. The prosecutor said he asked Dr. Lawrence Tuber at the time if there was anything unusual about the death. And Tuber had notified authorities on November 30 that he died. And he was the official signer on the certificate. He's the senior resident physician assigned to the case. And another guy signed off on it too. And this guy said he, meaning the head medical guy, said no, that he was sure about the. He was sure about the cause of death. He didn't mention the metal fragments and said nothing of where the body was coming from. I said, all right. And it was listed as an auto accident. I'm not a doctor, and I have to take the expert's word for it. Had he mentioned anything about the metal fragments, I would have called for an autopsy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Now, after viewing the autopsy results, they changed the death certificate to Homicide. And the detective here says, I'm still trying to figure out how everyone who treated this man missed the bullet holes. He said they were the size of a lead pencil from a.38 caliber. And nobody found them. It probably wouldn't have helped him, but we would have known it was a murder anyway. Wouldn't have fucking buried him. Car accident, they said. The director of public relations for the Frodert Hospital there said if a guy comes in with cuts and abrasions and listed as a motor vehicle accident, they aren't gonna be looking for bullets.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, right.

[James Petregallo]

Find them by accident. Hey, what's. That Would be a good thing to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ask, looking over the body. Wouldn't you see it?

[James Petregallo]

He said he was pretty mashed up. Mashed up? Is that a medical term? He was pretty mashed up. There were a lot of places blood could have been coming from. Okay. And they said the Washington County Sheriff called last week and talked with the doctors. Apparently he's satisfied with their explanation. I'm not. Jesus Christ. A friend of Danny Lundgren who last saw him a few months before he was killed, said, I can't believe this has all happened. How in the world could they have missed three bullet holes?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

That's a fact. The medical examiner who performed the original autopsy, Dr. Richard Holbrook. Old dick over here said, I've asked myself a thousand times how I missed it. The trauma from all the. The trauma from the crash was so severe, but still. Three bullet holes. How did I miss three bullet holes?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Good fucking question. I believe that. Maybe time for thicker glasses, dear. My cousin Vinny, this shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I guess so.

[James Petregallo]

So this is all going on in different counties. Washington County, Eau Claire county and Dunn county are all involved in this. So that's. That's a mess right there, obviously. August 5, 1987. A tape recording of the interrogation that he showed Alvin Taylor told the investigators, quote, I guess I would like it to rest when they asked him about the homicide. The judge rules that this is the defendant. As Alvin added, I guess I don't want to get into the details of Jim Severson's death. The judge rules that these statements did not necessarily mean he wanted to remain silent, but added that the statements were ambiguous and investigators had a legal obligation to stop questioning and have Taylor clarify his intent.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Please quote.

[James Petregallo]

It appeared to me that there was a reluctance on the part of Taylor to discuss the Severson murder. So this. They throw out the confession. So that's a problem. Why would they do that? There's a lot of evidence. Because he didn't. He said, I don't know about this. And they didn't clarify his statement, which is his job, to clarify the statement. They don't have to clarify. Lawyer is the word you're looking for. Attorney. Anything outside of that is not my problem. Alvin Taylor said in court, the pressure was definitely there. They kept coming at me and through the telephone and shit, too. They kept coming at me through that, through an intercom system, the vents, the light bulbs. It's a lot. Now, Alvin had initiated the meeting on June 16, the judge said, and before the officers finished giving him his Miranda rights, he blurted out a confession that he killed Danny Lundgren. But they didn't get the Miranda rights out. He said, there's no question that the defendant's statement was voluntary. Would Alvin Taylor think after June 12 that he would have immunity for anything that he said? How long does any kind of agreement last? Because the first they gave him some, like, queen for a day immunity thing to talk about other shit. They said, I don't think the state pointed out at any time until that June 12th agreement was over. So anyway, he ends up confessing to everything that they don't let him go on. So the judge ruled the prosecutors may not present a statement that he gave to the Menominee Police in connection with the James Severson attack. All the other ones, fine, but not that one. Now, where will the trial be held? They're also arguing about that. There's a discussion of where it is. They're checking into costs to house jurors and witnesses and attorneys at various locations, possibly in southern Wisconsin. The prosecutor said the place for the. I think the defense attorney said the place for this trial is in Dunn County. It's cheaper than anywhere else. Okay, we're going on cost. October 87, he pleads not guilty by mental defect. Again, here he's got an attorney, a public defender, and. Yeah, so he's not going to plead not guilty to all charges. He's obviously fucking insane. No one denies that. Every psychiatric evaluation says it's insane. Fighting this plea was also not guilty by reason of mental defect. Is a huge, long process that you're gonna have to. He's gonna be in hospitals, and you're gonna have to talk to him a bunch of times, and you can find out he's sane now. But then if he goes nuts, then it's another delay. You never know. So they don't know what to do here. Finally, November 1987, they are sending him to Mendota, the mental health facility that Ed Gein lived in forever. And they're sending him there to find out what's going on. So a cop said, the last day I talked to Alvin, he was leaving to go to Mendota. As Alvin shook the cop's hand, he said, dale, it came to me in a dream. I will get out of Mendota someday. And when I do, I have to come and kill you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm coming to get you.

[James Petregallo]

I'm coming to kill you. He said he felt bad about that because he said, honestly, I like you, and I feel bad about it. But he said, nothing I can do about it. I've been told already the order's in. You know what I mean? His intake evaluation, they say, quote, patient presents as calm but actively psychotic. Fun. Sounds like a good time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He looks fine between the ears. It's all going to.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's all. He's got a little party going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Making shit.

[James Petregallo]

Continues to maintain he was acting on divine instruction. Shows no remorse as he believes he saved humanity from demonic invasion. Duh. Requires constant supervision and forced medication and compliance to comply. So he is a fucking train wreck in this joint, right? March 1988. There's a big article in Startling Detective magazine. I didn't know existed. The cops, the lawyers, everybody's pissed off about this because they printed details that A, aren't public knowledge and B, a lot of which aren't even true. They got a lot of information here. The magazine published a seven page story about this under the headline, did the Piano did the Piano Man Play a Deadly Medley? And then the title of the article is Murder in B Flat. Okay? The issue featured a cover photograph of a woman in a pink negligee pointing a gun at the head of an appropriately distraught looking man. What does that have to do with any of this shit?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was distraught.

[James Petregallo]

He wasn't wearing a pink nightie. I don't think so. They said that they were not sure whether police reports were given to the two authors of this article, but she wondered how they obtained information that she didn't recognize from court documents. The prosecutor also said that her office has a policy against providing police records to news reporters. The documents generally are available to reporters through the police department, but not until the court cases are resolved and the defendant's appeal opportunities exhausted. Now we have FOIA requests. It's different. They said Taylor has yet to go to trial on any of the four homicides. The magazine article attributes much of its information to authorities in Dunn county, where he was charged for a couple of murders. There they go back and forth trying to find out who did it. The prosecutors questioned the Menominee Police Department because they had sat down with these guys, too. It's a fucking mess. 1988. Okay, here we go. He is gonna plea in a multi county arrangement.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

Rather than go from county to county figuring this out, all the counties got together. Let him plea to this shit here. So, yeah, it's interesting. They're doing this. They're letting him plead. Now several people speak about him in court. Most people say that you would like him when you meet him. He's courteous and has good social skills. A guy named Dr. Greist, who's a professor of psychology at UW Madison, interviewed Taylor numerous times and said Alvin is a very pleasant, very polite, considerate person. He's a very nice person who has a mental disease which drives him to be a murderous person. Similar thoughts offered by Dr. Paul Callier, who practices psychology in Eau Claire and who also interviewed Taylor. He said, Alvin is very friendly. He's a likable person, but he's deeply mentally ill and requires extensive hospitalization. They said that Alvin Taylor tends to give personal significance and importance to events to which the average person would call normal parts of Reality like what tie your lawyer is wearing, things of that nature. But him. Random observations, flashes from radios or television, hearing a conversation on the street, pictures on walls, all have secret meanings. He said these messages begin to build up inside of him. And he said that before killing, Taylor would wrestle with what's been described as the force. Not responding to the messages caused the pressure to build up inside of him, and he had to respond to them. After killing and not getting caught at all, he eventually began believing he was working for the police.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

He's working for God and the cops who can bust me, you know what I mean? How can it go wrong?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Divine law.

[James Petregallo]

He was getting rid of people who might be dangerous to society. So when the killing began, Alvin was getting into reality. He was finally finding his role and his mission is what they said. He said Taylor discovered Tim Hayden to be a quiet man involved in the church and Bible study. Taylor was on hard times, so Hayden, you know, whatever, didn't mind him being there. This is what. The first time they moved in when they got in a fight over a girl and Taylor got kicked out. Taylor went to Portage, killed a couple of people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We all know how that story goes. They also say that In August of 88, Taylor is still talking of plots and people trying to kill him. The messages are still there. The force is still there. And all the times Taylor still wanted to, quote, blow people away. They said Taylor has recently been, quote, beaming in on a man who resides in his wing at Mendota. He said he quoted Alvin Taylor as saying he knew he had to kill him, meaning that man, wow, okay, yeah, he's gonna kill people. They said all of the killings had a common factor. There was no money involved, no ill will, no revenge, no factors other than mental disease is what they all say. Sure. Even, like, attacking. Zwick is over six feet tall and well muscled. It wasn't even a smart attack. He didn't even have a gun. It was stupid. He said that the judge asked the psychologist here, psychiatrist, is the force still giving him directions? And the guy responded, yes, including this morning. He said he's still getting messages that he still has to go with this, go with this thing called the force. So they end up sentencing him to, you, sir, may fuck off. 20 years in prison for attempted murder. That's the deal. He's not even a murderer. He's an attempted murderer. What? Attempted murder. This is a consolidated charge with the Severson and the Lundgren murder charges and all this type of shit. It's Consolidated. Everything's consolidated into one attempted murder charge. Now, by not challenging the pleas, the prosecution then allowed Taylor to be committed to a mental institution. When sentence calls for both prison time and commitment to a mental institution, he's placed in the mental institution institution, and time spent there is subtracted from the sentence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that they accept the plea for all four murders. Guilty plea for attempted murder of Paul Zwick. And that covers all four murders.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. What this does also is 20 years in prison. But then if he's still crazy, he can still be kept in a mental facility until ready to leave. As part of the plea agreement, the district attorney agreed the judge would rule on the mental condition in the Severnson case rather than Severson case, rather than holding a jury trial that had been planned because try to get this guy through a fucking jury trial.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You don't think he's going to receive any messages about any of those 12 people? The judge also said to him, quote, if I had to guess what the outcome of that case might be, it would be that you would have been successful in your defense. You're. We were going to find you crazy. Sorry. They said, should Taylor leave Mendota anytime before the 20 years, he'd be required to serve whatever's left in prison. Now, let's see here. Now, Alvin's record in Mendota. 1988, he attacked an orderly who he claimed was transmitting something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To him from him. 1989, attempted to strangle a patient during group therapy, which, I mean, who wants to hear about someone else's problems? I get it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's my turn.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I want to go now. 1991, found he was caught collecting metal fragments. When asked why he's doing this, he said he was, quote, building a demon detector from metal fragments. Okay. 1993, goes on a hunger strike that lasts 23 days, claiming his food was poisoned with, and I quote, alien spores. Don't know what that means. So he's forcibly medicated through a court order. Haldol injections, Thorazine. Later on risperdal and Zyprexa. 1995 to 2005, on all this medication, voices chill out, they're cool.

[Jimmy Wissman]

10 years, he's fine.

[James Petregallo]

They quiet down. In a therapy session in 2001, he said, I know I killed those men. I remember doing it, but it feels like watching someone else's memories, like a movie. I saw him once. He also painted. He got into art therapy. They have an art therapy. They said he painted. Technically, very Nice portraits that were really disturbing and weird, but good artwork, well done. He did music therapy. They let him play the piano in the rec room, supervised, which nobody minded because he was good at it. A treating psychiatrist said, when properly medicated, Alvin shows remarkable insight into his illness, expresses appropriate remorse, but the moment he's off his meds, he reverts completely. The infrastructure of his delusions remains intact, just suppressed. He's fucking crazy. 2005, it comes out after that. Now he can seek release every six months. Since it's been 20 years, every six months he can apply again to be released twice a year. He's actually got a doctor in 2005 that says Alvin Taylor is presently not a danger to the community based upon his long standing treatment and will not become a danger to the community under conditional release. Yeah, right. The victim's family said, fuck that shit. No one even said, I don't believe they found all the bodies. His hiding place was mental institutions. He's using the system.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Um, so that's what they say. Um, motion for release is very, very, you know, fraught here. Um, one kid's mom said, my son was three. Tim Hayden's mom said my son was three credits from graduating. Three credits. He was going to be an accountant, have a family. Instead he's been in the ground for 18 years because this man thought he was an alien. I don't care how many pills he takes, he shouldn't see daylight, right? Yep. Another person said Bob, about Bob Williams. Bob was lonely. After his divorce, he thought he'd found a friend, someone to watch games with. Taylor shot him in the head and buried him in quicklime. No amount of therapy changes that. The prosecutor said, yeah, he's bonkers. We got to keep him in there. So his release is goddamn denied. So that's gone. That is denied. Now we go to 2010, tries to get out again. They figured out, by the way, an examination of him after his 2005 request cost taxpayers $1,950. And another assessment cost $900. The bill for this 2010 psychiatrist is $4,040.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Now this point, they're like, he's 63 years old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So statistically, once you hit 60, they rarely commit violent crimes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

They're going by. That's the statistical one. Doctor said Mr. Taylor hasn't even achieved the least restrictive status within Mendota. He's tested boundaries, tried to cheek his medication, shown narcissistic antisocial behaviors beyond schizophrenia. They also found out he'd been writing Letters to women on the outside claiming to be a wrongfully imprisoned musician without ever mentioning murders. He's denied. 2013. He applies for and gets a jury trial to look over this. A jury's gonna look over whether to release it. Whether to release it, to let him out or not. Yes. He says, no words can express the deep sorrow I feel for the trauma I've caused. Hardly a day goes by when I'm not reminded of those that I've hurt. He said, my recovery process has been frightening, long, and very, very painful. They said, keep it going, asshole. Denied. Get back in there. Paul Zwick testified in that he said, I still have nightmares. I check behind doors. I can't stay in hotels. This man tried to kill me with a hammer and a screwdriver because he thought I was what? A demon? Evil. I was 23 years old, trying to earn college money. So get the fuck back in there. A juror, five jurors, four women and one man. It's a panel. Took them 47 minutes to unanimously decide. You're not getting out. 2016. Again. They say he represents a clear and present danger to the community. Mental illness explains his actions, but doesn't excuse them or eliminate the risk. Um, that's that. Denied. 2022. Motion for release. Now he's wheelchair bound and has diabetes and heart problems.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't care.

[James Petregallo]

They're saying he's not crazy anymore, but they're saying, yes, yes, yes. He may not be crazy that way, but now he's 75 to the age where his mental facilities will start dwindling, also making him crazier. So we can't let him out. Wow. A doctor said Mr. Taylor's delusions remained fixed. He simply learned not what not to say. In unguarded moments, he still refers to his victims as demons and himself as God's soldier.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that what it is?

[James Petregallo]

2025. He has another petition pending release this month, and the families still show up. Dorothy Hayden, Tim's mom, is 91 years old and in a wheelchair. And she shows up and said, I'll be here every time until one of us is dead. He took my baby. He doesn't get to be free.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Atta girl.

[James Petregallo]

There you go, everybody. Menominee and Springbrook and Eau Claire and all these different places.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He never got out, huh?

[James Petregallo]

He's still there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So that is a crazy fucking story.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

Insane. So there you go. If you like that story, get on whatever app you're on, give us five stars. It helps a lot. It really does help. Drive us up the charts, tell your friends. Post on social media, which you can find at Shut up. Or Smalltown Murder on Instagram, Smalltown Pot on Facebook. Shut up. And givememurder.com is where you go. Last day to get the virtual live show from two weeks ago. It was on the 30th and this Thursday is the last day you can do it tomorrow. So get into that. That's shutupandgivemerder.com patreon.com CrimeInSports get all your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get all sorts of shit. You get a back catalog. Hundreds of episodes you never heard before of bonus stuff. New ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. This week, Team Relocations Part 2 for crime and sports. American Prison System origins and where it Went for small town murder there. And you also, in addition to that, get all of this. All the shows we make. Act free and you get a shout out. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever, ever think that they were being talked to through the air conditioner so they had to kill us. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This week's executive producer, Gary Howard in Atlanta, Gary Ian Stevenson. Happy birthday, Ian.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And Dan Forbes. Keep up the good fight, bud. You're doing great.

[James Petregallo]

Forbes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Peyton Meadows. She's the Sessa Zimmerman.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what that means.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know. I don't know it either. Other producers this week are. Ryan Bender. Happy Hour in Granbury. I think it was Texas. God damn it, I didn't write the state somewhere. Google it. Janice Hill. Okie Cola. Jacob. Whitey White. Wild. L. Wild A. Samantha Wallace. Joyce with no last name. Stephanie Armstrong. Brooke Meadowcroft. Jocelyn with no last name. Ashley Duke. Birdie Gal. Charlie Edwards. Christina Blakely. Julie with no last name. Brian G. Aaron Kennedy. Madeline Mora. Misha Moto with no last name. Trisha Robinson. Carl Allwort. Allwurt. Not just. Not some of it. All of it. Lp. The letters. Lnp. Doc Hollabay. You know, the Doc Holliday? Yeah, yeah. Jake Rhodes. Tiffany with no last name. Saul. Dave. Samantha Low. Leanne French. Norma Wright. Casey C. Errol. April Evans. Sacco Portman. Corey Patterson. Gabriel. Gabriel, Gabriel Hammond. Annie B. Joel. Joel, perhaps Ria. Raya. Ray. Uh, Emily with no last name. Name. Rich. Emma Moe. Melanie Rogers. Jenny Lean, J.

[James Petregallo]

Law.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Alicia Holloway. Mrs. Coop. Karen with no last name. Barbara Kish. Kim Sawaski, Zawadski. Evan Mack. Jess with no last name. Mary Miller, Kim Wilbert Henry Matson, Connie Weaver. Posey Parkour. Tyler Christie. Nicholas Chips. Rissa J. Megan Jacobson. Danny Finn. Sherry Christensen. Ryan Anderson. Ryan Oaks. Steve Holler. Justin Odendall. K. With no last name. Denise with no last name. Susan Michelle Odom. Candy Birdsell. Caroline Weber. Michael West. Monica Ricks. Jeff Rayleigh Whaley. Mike Cormier. Samantha with no last name. Christy Greiner. Elise C. Erica Carlson. Angela French. Billy Wrinkles. All right. Michaela.

[James Petregallo]

Billy Wrinkles over here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a gal, actually, I think. Well, it's an ie. It could be whichever you want to be.

[James Petregallo]

Michaela Griffith sounds like a euphemism for a butthole. Billy Wrinkles over here. No offense, Billy Wrinkles, but.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or the sack, you know what I mean? Miles. Miles Clerking. Michaela Griffith. I said that. Dee Dee Silverston Sylvester. Megan Matthews. Kobe Peterson. Silverston. It's the same thing. Adam Saltzman. Ray Raquel with no last name. Tiffany Sloan. Michael Geary. Stephanie with no last name. Jane Lombardo. Corey Williams. Shelby Murray. W. No, that's vw Heath Smith. Maddie Gruenwald. I think I might be dyslexic. That might be.

[James Petregallo]

Really?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Deanna would know the last name. Gina Bowers.

[James Petregallo]

That looks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Certainly a start.

[James Petregallo]

Rough stuff, dude. That's hard. I'm sorry. You're doing great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Crazy cat lady in Boston. Tracy Workman. I used to like this one. Podcast this one. What? Why'd you used to like, I don't know, D.L. johnson money. If you don't like it anymore, what's the matter, Birdie? I used to like this. Take my money. Kimberly Chavez. Stephen Jenkins. Dion with no last name. Dylan Cook. Carissa Charissa. Bryce Kim with no last name. Henry. J.D. erica. Hug, you huskin. Chris. Reggie. Ryan Mantle. Oh, look at that.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, Mickey's Mickey's kid.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Great, right? Has to be a little bit of that Mantle money. Hugo Kenniard. Kin aired. Send us his shit.

[James Petregallo]

Jordan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Any of your great grandfather's shit you got laying around. Yeah. Jordan tournament. We won't sell it. I promise. Edward Egan. Kevin White.

[James Petregallo]

Monsters Kevin.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If your uncle's Reggie, send that shit. Jesse Burns.

[James Petregallo]

I can get us Reggie.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, Reggie White. That was just Reggie White.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Kevin White immediately went to Jacksonville.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the only Reggie you know. Kyle Lamphere. Jeff S. Robert with no last name. Jennifer Wilson. Ashley S. Steve Perill. Austin Fink. David Phelps. Sanga Maria Saga Maria. Seija Marie. All right. Christy Harp. Sherry. I've tried my best. Sherry Basinger. Give me some of your mom's shit. Callie Brown. Anna Marie P. Shelby Pike, Robin Baldwalda, Bebop with no last name, and also anybody that had a hand in making that new documentary from Peacock about that dirtbag Gacy. I'm so glad you made me watch it. It's the greatest thing. I'm rewatching all eight episodes and all of our patrons. You guys are the best.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. You fantastic bastards. We really do appreciate everything you do for us. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Keep coming back and seeing us over and over. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com as dropdown menus take you where you need to go. That said, until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.