Surprising Serial Killer - Carmel, Maine

Summary

Small Town Murder — Surprising Serial Killer: Carmel, Maine

Podcast: Small Town Murder
Hosts: James Pietragallo, Jimmie Whisman
Episode Date: December 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmie head to Carmel, Maine, to explore the jaw-dropping case of an unassuming serial killer who haunted several small towns. They trace the interconnected disappearances and murders of three women over two decades, digging into Maine’s rural backroads, jaw-dropping police errors, and the manipulations of one of the state’s most notorious murderers. As always, the story is told with in-depth research, dark humor, and the hosts’ signature banter.

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Setting the Scene: Carmel, Maine

[06:50-13:43]

• A tiny town 20 minutes from Bangor, Maine; population under 3,000.
• Town reviews highlight rural quiet, few amenities, and “outdated businesses.”
• A place where newcomers get little respect (“If you didn’t grow up there, nobody gives you respect or even treats you with decency.” – James, 11:57).
• Demographics: overwhelmingly white, slightly more men than women, median age 40, strong Catholic presence, above-average income, low cost of living.
• Local flavor: “If a 4-year-old and an 80-year-old are both looking at the same thing, it’s bad, it’s not fun.” (James, on Carmel Days, 18:50)
• Crime rates are low – “one third of the average for violent crime” – but this episode hones in on exceptions.

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Case Introduction: The Disappearance of Geralyn (Jerry) Towers

[20:31-29:42]

• October 16, 1982: Jerry Towers disappears after an afternoon with her kids and bowling, later dropped at the Gateway Lounge.
• “She’s saving up her change in a mayonnaise jar so she can pay for this day of bowling with her children.” (James, 26:04)
• Family dynamics: estrangement from husband, boyfriend in jail, kids split between parents.
• Jerry’s quirks: always wore men’s tube socks and a penny in her shoe for luck.

Disappearance Details

• She was last seen at the Gateway Lounge around 6:30 pm.
• Never returned home; stepfather heard a loud car with headlights off pull into the driveway around 1 am.
• Police respond, find few leads, and follow up on an anonymous tip about a man named “Gary Hicks” spotted with Jerry at the bar.

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Digging Deeper: The Shadows of James Hicks

[39:25-56:46]

• Investigators quickly realize “Gary” is likely “Jimmy/James Hicks.”
• First officer interview: Hicks is evasive, sweaty, and nervously pouring water down himself.
  “He sat back down, getting ready to take a drink of the water, puts it up to his mouth and then just pours it all over himself.” (James, 45:08)
• Hicks oddly volunteers: “Everyone thinks I murdered my first wife.” (James, summarizing, 44:14)
• Hicks’s background: rough upbringing, cruelty to animals, married young after impregnating a 16-year-old Jenny Cyr.

Marriage to Jenny Cyr

• Early high school romance leads to teenage pregnancy and a tumultuous marriage marked by infidelity and escalating violence.
• “She thought that getting married and having a child…everything would be better now because her parents aren’t telling her what to do. Not really.” (James, 55:21)
• Multiple affairs; at one point, Hicks makes advances on the 15-year-old live-in babysitter, Susan, who is paid in room, board, and cigarettes.
• “We’re going to pay a child in cigarettes. That’s crazy.” (James, 75:18)

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The Disappearance of Jenny Cyr Hicks

[77:03-96:11]

• July 1977: After a major argument involving Hicks’s advances on the babysitter, Jenny vanishes.
• Susan reports seeing Jenny “in an awkward position” on the loveseat, possibly already dead.
• Jenny’s glasses and purse were left behind—strange, as she was nearly blind without them.
• “If you hear a woman yelling, ‘Stop, please stop, you are going to kill me.’ When the kill word comes in, that’s when you can go ahead and call the cops.” (James, 100:32)
• Hicks tells varying tales: Jenny ran off with a truck driver, is in Florida, New Hampshire, or just passed through town.
• Police conduct a shamefully lax investigation; locals and family suspect foul play immediately.

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Break in the Case: Link to Multiple Women

[97:02-108:37]

• In connecting the disappearances of Jerry Towers and Jenny Hicks, officers re-examine both cases.
• Officer Ricker: “The case was not more rigorously pursued because, for lack of a better word, trailer trash. These were all trailer trash...drunks and trailer trash.” (James quoting Ricker, 107:05)
• Years later, in 1983, James Hicks is indicted for Jenny’s murder—the first Maine case to seek a conviction without a body.

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Jenny Hicks Trial & Aftermath

[108:14-125:13]

• Prosecution relies on circumstantial evidence: neighbor hears Jenny scream “You’re going to kill me,” Susan testifies about her odd position, and the victim’s dependence on her glasses.
• Hicks himself testifies: “I am not guilty, but someday it will be proven. I’ll accept what the court gives me for now.” (James, 123:35)
• He’s convicted of fourth-degree murder (reckless intent) and sentenced to 10 years.
• Despite being convicted for Jenny’s murder, Hicks can’t remarry due to no death certificate, resulting in a bureaucratic farce with the state (128:23).
• “The state has convicted him of murder and then said ‘You can’t marry this other person because we don’t know that she’s dead.’” (James, 129:15)

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While Out and After Prison: Hicks’s Twisted Trail

[144:38-152:26]

• Hicks’s life post-conviction is a whirlwind of new relationships, all bearing a disturbing pattern: jealousy, violence, controlling behavior, and fathering children.
• Ex-wives and ex-girlfriends eventually confess: they lied for him, were abused, or lived in fear.
• Hicks strips the interior of a car “including the carpet and headliner” (152:04) after Jerry disappears.

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Another Victim: Lynn Willette

[152:26-162:59]

• By mid-1990s, Hicks is with Lynn Willette—but the controlling, abusive pattern repeats, and she attempts to leave.
• May 1996, Lynn disappears; Hicks reports her missing, says she left with her car.
• Her car is found abandoned at a truck stop—again, Hicks claims she ran off with a trucker.
• Investigators surveil Hicks but can’t make a move; meanwhile, he moves in with an 18-year-old, abuses her, and fathers more children.

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The Texas Incident, Hicks Confesses

[167:29-177:38]

• 2000: In Texas, Hicks commits aggravated robbery of a 67-year-old woman, tells her, “I killed my second wife and did 10 years in Maine, and I’m not going back there.” (James, 170:07)
• Arrested, he bargains: if extradited to Maine, he’ll confess to multiple murders.
• He finally details how he murdered, dismembered, and buried the remains of Lynn Willette, Geralyn Towers, and Jenny Hicks.
• “If you’re going to do a crime, do it alone.” (James quoting Hicks, 177:00)

Confession details:

• Dismembered bodies, heads and hands in concrete buckets; bodies hidden in remote woods, motel maintenance shops, and grain bags.

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Discovery, Final Justice, and Sentencing

[180:59-192:08]

• Based on his directions, police recover human remains across Maine’s wilderness—dense with “fields, rocks, and dump sites.”

• In court, the victims’ families finally get closure:
  “You killed my mother. Cut her up and discarded her like garbage. I won’t let you destroy my life, James Hicks. Today my roller coaster ride stops and I get off leaving you behind.”
  —Geralyn’s daughter, [191:28]

• The judge: “You, sir, may fuck off.” Two consecutive life sentences, no parole.
  “Eat all the dicks.” (James, 192:09)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Hick’s Evasiveness:
  “When he doesn’t have an answer, he just stares. That’s his game. Which works. Honestly, it’s better than giving a bad answer.” (James, 50:32)

• On Paying the Babysitter:
  “We're going to pay a child in cigarettes. That’s crazy.” (James, 75:18)

• On Fourth-Degree Murder:
  “I think that is…you sold someone a hamburger 10 years before they had a heart attack. I believe that’s fourth degree murder.” (James, 122:17)

• On Bureaucratic Absurdity:
  “The state has convicted him of murder and then said, ‘You can’t marry this other person because we don’t know that she’s dead, even though the state convicted him of killing her.’” (James, 129:15)

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Timeline & Key Timestamps

• 06:50–13:43: Carmel, Maine—demographics, local reviews
• 20:31–29:42: Geralyn Towers’ disappearance
• 39:25–56:46: James Hicks interview and background
• 77:03–96:11: Disappearance and investigation into Jenny Cyr Hicks
• 108:14–125:13: Jenny's trial, conviction, and aftermath
• 128:23–129:43: Marriage and death certificate absurdity
• 152:26–162:59: The case of Lynn Willette
• 170:07–175:09: Texas robbery, Hicks’s confession prelude
• 177:43–192:08: Full confession, recovery of remains, sentencing

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Conclusion

This episode unpacks a harrowing case of unchecked abuse and serial murder amid small-town neglect and police oversight, ultimately exposing how a bumbling, disarming local could hide monstrous crimes. The hosts balance horror with humor, illuminating why even in “safe” rural towns, evil can thrive in plain sight—often dismissed until it’s far too late.

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Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Sponsor Announcer]

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[James Petregallo]

This week in Carmel, Maine when a woman disappears off the face of the earth, detectives are told about one suspect who seems to have a history with other missing women. One which leads them to an unexpected serial killer and his awful burial grounds. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I am Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you Folks, so much for joining us today on an absolutely bonkers, twisty, crazy nasty edition of small town murder. Good stuff here. Big announcement. Shut up and give me murder.com head there right now. The tickets are on sale pre sale and they go on sale for the whole whatever on Friday. Oh my God. For the 2026 season we have some new places we've never been before. San Jose, Buffalo. Coming to see you guys out there. Going back to Dallas. We haven't been there in a couple years. We're going. It's going to be awesome. We are very excited. I know there's some other places we haven't been. Come get your tickets to the tickets. Get your murder James right now. Oh, this is going to this year is going to kill me. Boy, oh boy. Shut up and get. Come watch the demise of James health right in front before your eyes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

See which one is James last.

[James Petregallo]

Buy a ticket to the show everybody. The show is me deteriorating before your eyes like the wicked witch of the west. Just gonna shrivel right up. That is shutupandgivemerder.com Check out the full slate. I think the first show is Nashville. I believe so. Get in there. Get in there. We're excited. Do that. Also get your merchandise and all that good stuff there. Listen to the other two shows. Crime and sports and small town. This is small town murder and your stupid opinions, that's what you need. They're hilarious. You don't need to like sports to listen to crime and sports either. It's just funny stuff. Then get yourself Patreon. Patreon is cooking. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You're gonna get it all, everybody. You're gonna get hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription to binge on. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder and you get them all. This week for crime and sports we're gon about how cycling is the most dangerous sport that's ever existed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's something.

[James Petregallo]

It's more dangerous than dueling. I swear to God. There could be a sport where people literally shoot guns at each other and there'd be less deaths than this cycling. It's nuts. How many people die?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Slightly less bad for your health than making this show.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, than making this show constantly. Then for small town murder we are going to talk about. Charles Starkweather killed 11 people and blamed it all on a 13 year old girl that forced him to do it, obviously. So we'll talk all about that. Dangerous. Patreon.com crimeinsports and in addition to all the episodes, you also get everything we put out. Crime and sports, your stupid opinions and all the small town murders, all ad free with your Patreon ad free. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mess your name all up for you. Don't you worry about that. That said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. Unfortunately, the stories and the murders are 1000% real. Nothing is embellished or none of that garbage for comedic effect. The point is, you don't have to do that for things to be funny, because people are idiots that want to murder people. That's the thing. What we do here though, you go, how do you make murder funny? Well, one thing you do is you never make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why is that, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. That's how that goes there. So if that sounds good to you, I think you're gonna enjoy this. There's plenty to make fun of. We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Who cares? And we make fun of murderers because why not? We're comics and we have no other way to get to these people. So this is how we're gonna do it. They deserve it. So that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here, let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do it. We're going to Carmel, Maine. Here we go. And it's C A R M E L. So it can be Carmel. It can be Carmel. It can be caramel. There's a lot of different.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The Internet says Carmel.

[James Petregallo]

That's what they say. And the only Carmel, the only Carmel that I know is Carmel is Carmel, New York, which is near me where Jimmy was saying, well, they're all Carmel, aren't they? No, that's the point. One by me is Carmel. So who knows? Who knows? This is kind of in central, I guess you'd call it in terms of the coast. Central Maine. If you say central Maine, you think of in the middle of the state, but it's. This is like kind of halfway up the coastline is the way to put It.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, there's very little up in that.

[James Petregallo]

No, there's trees. That's it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. The center of the water. It's very. Maine is. Our Australian people just live near the ocean.

[James Petregallo]

They live near the ocean, yeah. The interior, rather than being a desert, is a vast forest full of Stephen King. Cheap as cheap as fuck, full of Stephen King characters. That's all it is. You gotta watch out. So it's about 20 minutes to Bangor, Maine. That's right outside of that. Three hours and 20 minutes to Boston, if you want to go down there. And then an hour and 10 to Litchfield, Maine, which was our last main episode, episode 612 behind the murder Mask. And that was the one where the lady had her. Brought her son's friends in so he would feel better after they moved there. And then it spun out of control. This is in Penobscot county, area code 207. Now we're gonna do the town stuff pretty quick here because this story is deep. I mean, it's a wild story. The little bit of the history here. A Martin Kinsley of Hampton bought this township in 1795. He bought the whole area and started selling off lots. His idea was to have a town. So the land that's now Carmel was first bought. This was in 1795, like we said. The first settlers were Abel Ruggles and Reverend Paul Ruggles, who named the church. They named the place to honor the prophet Elijah's experience on Mount Carmel. So this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they were very religious, I would say. Mount Carmel.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is it Mount Carmel? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

From Biblical Things reviews of this town. Okay, let's find out what other people think. We've never been here before and we both like Maine, so love Maine. Yeah, this is pretty interesting. Let's find out what we're scouting for our future hideouts here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This may be it.

[James Petregallo]

So here's five stars. The town is small, where everyone knows each other. What could change is a store that is on Route 2 going into Herman. The store needs to be updated.

The store on Route 2 needs to be updated.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It exists there already.

[James Petregallo]

It exists. It didn't sound like it from that review.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right. At first they wanted one. Now it's there. They just want it better.

[James Petregallo]

I think. It's just so crappy, it might as well not exist. Maybe that's what they're going for. Here's three stars. The best part of this town is the rural, quiet plots of land. You have close proximity to the bustling outer towns around you. Nothing in Maine can be described as bustling. By the way, bustling nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Portland's pretty good, right? Downtown?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Right on the water in the middle of summer, maybe. Otherwise, the rest of the town is pretty chill, pretty common. It's a lot. The town is like the. Like a physical incarnation of whittling, you know what I mean? Just kind of sitting and that's kind of like what Maine is, just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's very quiet on the porch.

[James Petregallo]

Small town. A lot of outdated businesses, though. I don't know what that means. Outdated businesses.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They only take cash.

[James Petregallo]

They only. They sell beepers. That's it around there.

Bunch of beeper stores and, you know, typewriter repair shops, shoe cobbling. I don't know, that's maybe. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

VHS and TV repairmen.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Here's three stars. Crime is average for a high population city, but isn't bad. This is not a high population city by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This isn't a city.

[James Petregallo]

No. People and police take care of situations and community is very close. Then we get these people. I don't know what their deal is, but they apparently don't want to type. They don't like it. Here's three stars. Summer is great. Winter is awful.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The whole review. Yeah. I don't like it when it snows, but I like it when I'm on a jet ski. That's fun.

It's good stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure do love swimming.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Here's three stars. Not a lot of restaurants nearby. That's all. Yeah, that's it. And then here's two stars. I have to travel a half hour to work.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, you do.

[James Petregallo]

That's it, though. There's no backstory. Wow. And then finally, here is somebody that's a little more valuable. One star. Stay away from Village Market.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, is that the root?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Maybe that's the outdated businesses there. I think this town is probably by far the worst place I've ever lived in my life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably by far.

[James Petregallo]

Probably by far. This town is one of those places where if you didn't grow up there or you're not from there, nobody gives you respect or doesn't even treat you with decency. The overall worst place here is Village Market. It's a small town. If you move to a tiny town, they're like, who the hell are you? Yeah, you got to kind of work yourself in. Haven't you seen. Haven't you seen Funny Farm? Higher the town.

Together to sell your house, eat a bunch of Rocky Mountain oysters and everyone will like you. It's fine. You hang out with the Criterion Brothers. And there's no problems.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Go to the fucking baseball game.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The overall worst place here is Village Market. They had a worker there who it seemed was inbreeded. Inbreeded, not inbred. Inbreeded.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You sound inbreeded.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Sir, you are inbreeded with nothing but an attitude problem. If you do stop there. They have some nice workers at Dollar General, though. That's about it. The owner of Village Market even followed me to my house because I expressed feelings to them. To your house? How the hell does that work? From the store and the main state troopers did nothing except serve me and my girlfriend a no trespassing order when in all caps, we felt threatened.

How does that work? Anyways? If you can avoid this town, do it at all costs. I'm from Maine myself, originally from Bangor. This town is 20 minutes away, but no good. Thanks. Hopefully you guys realize and understand you're from Bangor. 20 minutes away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

These people wouldn't be upset with you.

[James Petregallo]

Just, you're from right there. Who cares?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right there. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

People in this town. 2,828. So very small.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very few.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there's this, and then there's Aetna, which is right next to it, which is like 3,000 people. And then there's Newport, which is a couple thousand people, too. These are all the towns all lined up. Less women than men, which is. We rarely find that. 48.9% women, 51.1% men. I don't know if there's like lumberjacking going on there or what, but there's some jacking, I know that much. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

All those guys.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's lumber or not.

[James Petregallo]

That goes without saying. So median age here, 40.1. Little bit above the national average. Not too far. Family here at 63% married, which is well above the 50, 50 national average.

Low number of people that are single with children. So you move here and you stay here and you stay married with your kids out in the woods. That's pretty much. I don't know if there's not a courthouse nearby to file anything, so you just say screw it or what? Race in this town. 98.9% white. That's pretty goddamn white. 0.0% black. 0.0% Asian. 0.4% Native American, 0.5%. Two races or more, and 0.3% other.

0% Hispanic, black, Asian, I don't know.

24.2% of the people here are religious, which is about half the national average. And the leading one is Catholicism. It's 11% Catholic. But 11% is hardly anything. We do know that Catholics are the Baptists of the north though. They're gonna be the highest.1 0.5% Jewish average unemployment. The median household income here is above the national average, which, that's interesting. It's 86,623, which is not bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The people in Maine are doing well and I'm not sure what all those people do, but they all get some damn money.

[James Petregallo]

And you're three hours away from a city. So I don't know, like a big, I guess Bangor, Portland, I don't know, lots of Etsy pages that are killing, oh, killing it. Just all sorts of, all sorts of like main crafts, lots of plaid things going out. Cost of living in this town, 100 is regular average, you know, rest of the country. Here it is 85. And the housing here is a 78 out of 100. Median home cost here, 70 or $275,000, which is lower than the national.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's not bad.

[James Petregallo]

Not bad. If you're making more money and we've convinced you, damn it, you are going to talk to that inbreeded employee and straighten him right out. We have for you the Carmel Maine real estate report.

Average two bedroom rental here goes for about $1,330, which is expensive above the national average, which is odd because I'm going to read you the houses and it feels like you could do much better just buying a house. Here's a three bedroom, two bath, 1720 square foot house. It's nice, you know, decent regular house, wood siding, that sort of thing. On three acres also. Yeah, inside it's a little farty. It's a little. Need some updating. A little farty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Most stuff up there, there is pretty farty.

[James Petregallo]

They have a Pepto Bismol pink bathroom. I mean it is Pepto pink from fucking floor to ceiling in there. It's wild. $134,900 for three acres in a house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's not bad at all.

[James Petregallo]

$15,000 price cut very recently, by the way. Here is a three bedroom, one bath, 1,008 foot square foot place. But it's like a. It's a log cabin.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh yeah, that's like a retreat.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's pretty cool. So I had to kind of add that in as an option. This place is on nine and a half acres of woods.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now we're talking.

[James Petregallo]

It's beautiful, very nice, very picturesque. 269,900 bucks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

With a $25,000 price cut two weeks ago.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fantastic.

[James Petregallo]

Not bad. And then finally this thing. Oh man. You have sold all the beaver pelts in town and you're doing well. Four bedroom, three bath, 4365 square foot. It's a big old house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn. With a big old pond.

[James Petregallo]

It's a pond. And there's an above ground pool and bury it for that big of a house. But it's on two acres. Big place. 559,000 bucks for that thing. That's pretty decent for what you're getting. Yeah. For the rest of the country it'd be more expensive. And again, $16,000. Price cut on that recently too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure. Give it a couple of weeks. It's going to come down.

[James Petregallo]

It's going to come down. More things to do here. There's so much like outdoor stuff that people do. There's just not a lot of a ton of stuff. Unless it's kind of hanging out in the street. Because that's so nice. We have Carmel Days 2025. This year's theme was quote, let's party. Yeah, okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not bad.

[James Petregallo]

Come join us for this free family event. Oh boy. Watch the parade that runs through the village. Then join us at the rec field for food, fireworks, music, entertainment for all ages. Which means bad entertainment usually.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yep, sure is.

[James Petregallo]

If a 4 year old and an 80 year old are both looking at the same thing, it's bad, it's not fun, it's not good. It's really bad for someone who's 40. They're gonna hate it. So they said. This year's parade has a let's party theme. We encourage you all to consider participating whether you're a business, a local organization, a family or an individual. If you have a special car, truck or tractor you want to show off, a float you want to design with your family, friends or co workers, or a bicycle you want to decorate with a let's party theme, you can do it. Now they do have one rule. What is that from your float or from your whatever the hell you're making there? Candy may be handed out, but no throwing candy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What are they going to do the fucking procession?

[James Petregallo]

Kid lost an eye last year with a thing of sweet tarts. You can't have that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What are they gonna do if I throw it from. From the parade? They gonna pull me out. How you gonna get me out?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, a mini Snickers took. Took out an old lady's trachea. Streets aligned with people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't get out now.

[James Petregallo]

Couldn't do it. There's also bands. They have the Crossroads Main Band. There's Crossroads Band, Maine. Okay. DJ dance party with Austin Wicket. So we got that. That. By the way, the Crossroads Band Main performs at the highly coveted Noon spot, which is what all the bands want to play.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Let's open it up.

[James Petregallo]

Crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here, property crime is just above half the national average here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. Pretty safe.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty safe. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third of the average. So.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Great.

[James Petregallo]

It's very safe. I mean, it's a town in the woods in Maine. How much crime could there be? One of those things that said, let's talk about some horrible, horrible murders in this area. Let's do it. Let's start it out here. We need to go back in time a bit to get to the beginning of this. This case is going to span quite a while and quite a couple of bodies here. So let's start out here on October 16th, 1982. Okay. On this day, by the way. October 16th, 1982. Do you know what the number one song in the country was?

[Jimmy Wissman]

1982.

[James Petregallo]

1982, October 16th.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Was it still disco something?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no. It's all rock shit now. It is Jack and Diane by. Is that right at the time. Little pink houses for you and me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What a great album, though.

[James Petregallo]

John Cougar at that point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wasn't even Mellencamp yet. Now he doesn't like the Cougar. Before that, it was make up your.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Mind, you fucking jerk.

[James Petregallo]

Before that, it was Abracadabra by the Steve Miller band, which is a terrible song. Probably their worst.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Made it great.

[James Petregallo]

Well, a little better. Yeah. And then much better, I should say. And then Men at Work with who can it be Now? Was the next number one, which is also great stuff there. Number one movie was E.T. in the box office Fuck. At this time. Officer and a Gentleman before that. And then ET Will be knocked out by Rambo. First Blood. Shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then Creep show, which I was like, awesome.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not bad. Creep show was number one one time for a week.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, big deal. And then number one TV show is 60 Minutes. It should be every day and Dallas. Okay, now let's talk about a woman here, Geralyn Lee Towers. Jerry Lynn is J, E, R, L, Y, N. She goes by Jerry sometimes, too. I think she's born Tibbets, but then she's Towers. She gets married and divorced. She's born December 2, 1947. She's 34 years old at this point. In time. She's born in Maine, raised in Rome, Maine. She has her parents and brothers and sisters. I think she has three sisters and two brothers. So big family, six kids. She has three children of her own by the time she's an adult, although two of them are primarily staying with their father, which is interesting. She lives on one side of a duplex in Newport, which is two towns over from Carmel. She lives in. It's a duplex. Her parents live on one side, her mother and her stepfather. Okay, so she's not Tibbets, she's Towers. So she's born Towers, I believe, anyway. Her mother and stepfather live on the other side. She lives on one side of the duplex. She has a boyfriend who's in jail at this point in 1982.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So things aren't going great, obviously. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's precarious. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Boyfriend in jail. Two of her kids live with their father. Something, you know, she's obviously had just maybe some issues or maybe instability in housing or whatever. The thing is, maybe she was moving from place to place. It was easier for the kids to stay with the dad. I'm not sure. But she was in the process of ending the relationship with her jail boyfriend. Yeah, she's like to bowl a lot and she likes to camp. And she's known for two things very specifically, always wearing men's tube socks. Oh, and keeping a penny in her shoe for good luck, which just sounds very uncomfortable. Yeah, you'd be like, God damn it. Imagine having a penny in your shoe all the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Slid down into the bridge.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, now it's down on the toe. Christ, you got to kicking around. She was married. She's separated from her husband, though, so she lives with her parents, June and Millard. Well, her mom and stepdad, I believe, here. And she has three teenage children. Like we said, two of them live kind of go back and forth, and one lives with her now. On October 16, 1982, June and Millard, her mom and stepfather, brought Jerry and her three children to the Pittsfield bowling alley during the afternoon. And the day was to be a family reunion, basically. Before that day, her two younger children, son and daughter, had been living with the daughter's father, and he had brought the two kids to visit her the night before. So she's finally getting this. I don't know how long it's been since she's seen them, but she's getting to see them again. And so they're going to go out and do something.

So she goes with the kids with mom and stepdad to the bowling alley. Mom stays in the car. June. Mama June. She stays in the car while the others go into the bowling alley. We're gonna go in and bowl and drink. And she's like, I'll just stay out here, which is, I'll sit in the car. Super weird to just sit in the car. She must hate bowling. Like, the sound of the pins must drive her nuts. So now the stepfather and Jerry, they had a drink while the kids were bowling. The stepfather then came back to the car a short while later to tell the mom that Jerry had forgotten to bring her money with her and wanted him to go back to the house to get her money. She didn't have it. He can't spot her, I guess, till they get back to the house. Seems like a lot of work for. How much is bowling alley beers in 1982? 75 cents. Yeah, tops. Yeah, you can spot her now. According to her parents, Jerry had been saving up her change in a mayonnaise jar so that she could pay for this day of bowling with her children. She's had this, like, on the. On the schedule for a while. Yeah. This is important to her to go out bowling with her kids. It is.

Otherwise, she had only aid to dependent children, which is like, you know, check. Like an SSI kind of check, and food stamps on which to support the kids. So saving up any amount of money was hard for her because she didn't have a lot of money at all. So the stepdad went to retrieve the money and later returned. After he got it, Jerry and the kids counted out enough to pay the bowling tab, which I'm sure was lovely for the people behind the counter. Thanks a lot. The entire family left the bowling alley. Now, Jerry's daughter said that Jerry had spent her bowling money on drinks and that she, the daughter, who's a regular bowler in the area, had felt angry and humiliated when her mother had to send for her change and make the kids count it out. You don't want to do that as a teenage kid. That's embarrassing. And nobody likes that. So. But, I mean, what are you going to do now, that night here. Jerry is known to have a little bit of a drinking problem. That's the thing. So that night, at her insistence, her parents dropped her off at the Gateway Lounge and restaurant. Now, you can tell she's got to have a drinking problem if the fact that she's been saving up and wanting to hang out with her kids so bad, and she finally has them, and then she Goes to a bar instead. You know what I mean? So that's a problem. That's because you're being drawn there by something. So she'd been drinking in the afternoon, and she decided to stop for a drink at the Gateway Lounge when the family returned to Newport. So they let her out at the bar, mom and stepdad and kids. And she told her stepfather she would call him later for a ride home. She entered the bar, they watched her, and then they went home. The parents went to their part of the duplex, and the children went to Jerry's side on the other side. The oldest child, who was 15 at the time, was watching, you know, the other two kids, basically. So Mom June. Mama June went to bed before stepdad here, and she's got a daughter, Jerry's sister, who has advanced stage multiple sclerosis at the time. She's been taking care of him. Stepdad stayed up watching, quote, Stacy's Country Jamboree.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The fuck is that?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. But it was on every Saturday night, so he watched it every Saturday night. Stacy's Country Jamboree while he was on that shit.

Me neither. Then he heard a vehicle later in that night. He said June was still awake, the mom. And they both thought that that was Jerry coming home. Okay. So the next morning, they never got a call to come pick her up. The next morning, Jerry's oldest son went over to the other side of the duplex, to the grandparents side, and said, mom didn't come home last night. She's still not here. So they became alarmed because they hadn't heard from Jerry either. And they knew that she only had $6 on her, so she couldn't have done too much on $6. And she was also taking prescription drugs for a liver problem. Huh.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is going. What?

[James Petregallo]

She washes it down with booze. She's already got cirrhosis or something, I don't know. And did not have her medicine with her also. So $6 and no medicine equals she would come home.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the best holiday gift of the season. An aura frame. Auraframes.com oh, you know it. We love aura frames here. You want to be thoughtful. This is what you're trying to be. A nice person. You want to get people gifts, and then you. You procrastinate because you're busy and you got things going on at the last minute. You're like, what do I do? When you buy everybody gift cards and gift cards are fine. But it's not. There's nothing personal about it. It says, I forgot about you till yesterday. That's what it says to me. But skip that panic and just give everybody an aura frame. They're gonna love it. You're gonna feel great about it. They're unbelievable frames. These digital frames are phenomenal. They're gonna want to see the pictures of the family in there, I'm telling you. Especially if you've got a mom, an aunt, a grandma, somebody like, oh my God. They're gonna love this so much. They have unlimited free photos and videos. You just download the Aura app and connect it to WI fi. You can upload as much as you want to there. You can keep adding them from anywhere, anytime. You can add a message before it arrives too. Yeah, it's really great. A great gift box too. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag. So you don't have to worry about any of that. What am I going to put this in? You're going to love these aura frames. You can't wrap togetherness, but you maybe you can frame it and they're right about that. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling Carver mat frames named number one by Wirecutter by using the promo code Small Town Murder at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code, small Town Murder. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

This show, Small Town Murder is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com Absolutely. You gotta rewire yourself and you have to kinda redo your traditions. Therapy can give you the space to create new meaningful traditions, providing clarity amidst the holiday chaos. Cause it's a lot going on the holidays, a lot of traditions. People may have traditions in their family. While some people might have any, they might not have any. Or they might just be starting traditions of their own.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Start a new one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now's the time to reflect on what they mean to you or to rewrite those traditions and make your own. Like perfecting a new hot chocolate recipe with the kids or continuing your great aunt's sweet potato pie. Incorporating therapy into your new existing traditions can help ensure you take time for yourself during what can be a very joyful. But let's be honest here, hectic and sometimes lonely time of the year too. Yeah, yeah. That's what you got to do. Share your, you know, you can do it. Share with somebody. That helps a lot. You know, I'd like to start some new stuff going on here, but it's hard to do. So you got to. That helps, you know, see some coaching.

[Jimmy Wissman]

On that, that direction too.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. And therapy during the holidays is kind of essential. You're gonna have to deal with family members you might not want to deal with. You might be lonely, you might have memories come up from past stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's so much here baggage.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh shit.

[James Petregallo]

But she never came in. So we have no idea. So a police officer named James Ricker, who is gonna be. You're gonna hear about him a lot through this episode. Officer, Officer, then detective, then Chief Ricker all the way through. He responds to the call and they tell Ricker that their daughter went off for short periods of time in the past, but she always let somebody know where she was. She never disappeared. This time she didn't contact anybody. So that the Tibbettses here, the parents also decided to run a notice in the local papers asking for anyone who might have seen her because after a few days nobody's seen her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So they said they received one response and it's from a quote, someone who called himself a fortune teller, a psychic. He called to inform the family that he believed Jerry was in a river in Bingham. Oh, okay. Now the psychic here, they said that the weird thing they said, perhaps.

More disturbing than the communication from the so called psychic was the fact that Ricker could locate no one who admitted to having seen Jerry after she was dropped off at the bar. So the cop issues a missing person report including a complete description of Jerry and everything like that. They said she's 5 foot 6, 200 pounds, brown eye, dark hair, wearing black slacks and a blue checkered button up shirt. Everyone has flat a lot in Maine. She also had on Maine Dexter shoes, the ones that are made in Maine, and her trademark men's tube socks. And I'm going to read, by the way, portions out of a book that I'll give you the title for and everything later. I think it's Tragedy in the north woods. But I'll give you the author and everything later on as well. She wore a gold double banded mother's ring set with red, yellow, blue and green stones. She had four stones because although she had three kids, she was raising three kids. She had a fourth child who was being raised by another family member. So she has four kids total. Her hair was short at the time. She's described as salt and pepper. And her weight is above normal for her because of her recent health issues. The medication she's on makes you pack weight on. Now the psychic here. Okay, this guy, they're contacted by, I guess Nathan Small. He contacts the police as well as the Tibbets family. He claimed he had a special ability to locate the bodies of missing people.

Special ability. He's special, this guy. Yeah, yeah, he's part German. Shorthaired pointer, that's what he is. He said he believed that Gerry was dead and her body was floating in the river in Bingham temporarily trapped by some rocks. Now, the cops thought he's full of shit, but he's giving a very exact location for the body. He's not saying search the Atlantic Ocean. He's saying right here, this part of the river where there's rocks, that's where you can find her. So it's specific enough that you can take a look at it, because they don't know he might be the crazy shit and he might have killed her and put her there. You know what I mean? Certainly you got to take a look at it. So, you know, if there's a crib, they have no other leads. So whatever they felt like, they had to follow up the call. So the sheriff, within whose jurisdiction the location of the body, according to the psychic was, had a plane in the air, and so they had the pilot check the specified location. No body was found. Okay, so the investigation at this point is they don't really have much. They have a psychic who responded to a newspaper ad and nothing else. Pretty much nothing else, which is brutal here. They don't know what to do. So then.

Another Officer, Robinson, he receives an anonymous phone call claiming a man named Gary Hicks was the last person seen with Jerry at the bar. Okay, it's an anonymous call. So they end up interviewing a bunch of bar patrons because this seems like the type of bar where if you go on a Thursday, you can talk to them about what happened on Monday. Because it's all the same people that were there that seems they know they were there. Whoever's there a month later was there a month ago. It's just how it is. So they go in there, they interview bar patrons, and they find out that there's nobody named Gary Hicks that they can find. When somebody says, I know a Jimmy Hicks. Oh, I don't know a Gary, but I know Jimmy. Close enough. We'll take whatever Hicks you got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He might have.

[James Petregallo]

He might have a brother, something. So that's who they come up with after a few weeks. All they come up with is a name, James Hicks. That's all they know. So one of the cops said when we got into that, they said someone who bore a resemblance to Hicks, or was Hicks, was seen with her that night. We had no knowledge at that time at all of anything about that guy. Nothing. So they said that a witness, a bartender, said that Hicks had indeed been at the Gateway Bar that night. He. He came in about 10pm now with $6. I don't know if you can drink from 6:30 to 10.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, if you Nurse him, I guess.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you have a liver disease and you're on medication, maybe. So they said he sat at the corner of the bar drinking with Jerry. Okay. He paid for both of their drinks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

James did.

[James Petregallo]

James did. Because he was probably. She was out of money by then. Probably. So they described him as being about 5 foot 8 inches tall, weighing about 150 pounds. He had a beard and was wearing one of this steel chainsaw hat, which sounds like every guy in Maine wearing the hat of a chainsaw.

Chainsaw company. Yeah, the chainsaw company. She said this other person at the bar, that Jerry and James had left the bar together, but she didn't know if they'd gotten into a vehicle together or they just walked outside together, who knows? She said that she honestly had not remembered Hicks even being there until he came in again later on the next month. We're talking in November. He came in and then that's when she connected. Oh, that's the guy that was here that one night. Otherwise, she didn't remember. And she hadn't remembered if his name was Gary or James Hicks, but she knew it was Hicks. She said she didn't remember names well, she remembered faces and drinking choices because she's a bartender. You see a guy, you know what he drinks, it doesn't matter what his name is. Most bartenders call people by what they drink.

[Jimmy Wissman]

By their drink.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. To themselves or to the other people that work there. Oh, that's fucking. You know. That's Guinness over there. Yeah. So she said that he had consumed bottled Miller beer when he came in in November, same as he did in October, and wore the same yellow steel hat, steel logo hat. So who the fuck is this guy? Let's talk about him. This is James Rodney hicks. He's born April 17, 1951. Goes by Jimmy or Jim. That's what everybody calls him. Born in Aetna, Maine, which is right between Carmel and Newport. That's the town in there. His family is shitty shit. Family. Poor father left when he was very young. He was reported to have kind of a. I guess a normal childhood. Not any huge behavioral issues or anything like that. Except that he is known by his friends and people in the area to have displayed acts of cruelty toward animals throughout his childhood. Which. Who knows if that's being weird or just living in the woods and people do weird taxidermy or. I have no idea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not even that some people are just cruel to what they deem to be a pest on their.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. That's the other thing but we're not sure exactly what that means, but I think it'll become more clear as we go on here. So father left early, like we said, and here he is, basically. That's. Nothing has happened to this guy, pretty much he was born, he fucked off a little bit, and he sits at the bar with a yellow steel chainsaw hat, drinking a bottle of Miller. That's the guy. So they go to talk to him, and he lives with a woman at this point named Linda Marquis. Or Marquis. Whatever you want, whatever it is. Marquise. So Linda here they go to drive to the home, and they found him standing by the front door. They said, hey, how you doing? You James Hicks? He said, yeah. They said, we'd like to ask you some questions in reference to a missing person case. And he said, sure. And they said, you want to come talk in my car? Which is weird because we're standing here. Why can't we talk while we're standing here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, it's Maine. What year is it? What month is it? It could be cold.

[James Petregallo]

It might be cold. Actually. No, it's not, because he's hot. As we'll talk about. So they tried to read him his rights, and they believed he was lying when he responded to their initial question. So they started reading him his rights. So he kept interrupting them, talking about how he knew why they were there and that everybody thinks I murdered my first wife. I know. And they're like, huh? What? You're what now?

What the fuck are you talking about? Her name isn't Jerry, right? No. Okay, well, all right, well, let's get. Hold on, let me get another notebook page open here. So they were like, what the fuck? The police were able to finish reading him his rights at some point, and he said he understood them. So they talked to him. They asked him if he could go into. He said, can I go inside and get a drink of water?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I think I'm going to faint unless I get a drink of water. I'm so fat. I'm so parched right now, so sweaty. They said he appeared extremely nervous and was sweating profusely and stuttering. So all three of them went into the house. Two cops and him. They're not going to let him go out and come out with a shotgun or something like that. So he sat in a chair. James does then rose to get a glass of water. He sat back down, getting ready to take a drink of the water, puts it up to his mouth and then just pours it all over himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's that sweaty. I don't need it in the veins. I need it on me.

[James Petregallo]

On me. And this is in the house. Like, there's water all over the place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Poured it in his good chair.

[James Petregallo]

Weird. So they said his attention seemed to fade in and out during the questioning, and he seemed to have fainted at one juncture. He's so thirsty, Jimmy. You have no idea how thirsty this man is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This man fainted, and they just keep asking his unconscious body questions.

[James Petregallo]

He just passed out in his chair. And they're like, he'll come to in a minute. We'll get to the bottom of this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We'll wait on part two of that question.

[James Petregallo]

So he told officers that he might. And that's a big might. Might have been at the gateway bar on October 6, and eventually he might have been talking to Geralyn Towers that night, but he's not sure. He said, I go to bars. I talk to women in bars all the time. That's what I do. Wow. It's my jam. He thought he had. He said, I think I stayed till the bar closed. Not I didn't leave it whenever. So now he's informed that witnesses had seen him leave with Jerry. He, quote, stared at the policeman, just stared at them. Which is a weird response to a question when you're seen with a missing person leaving the bar and you just stare at somebody like you had a stroke just now. So then after that, he said, well, maybe I walked out at the same time as some girl.

But, quote, he didn't think that they were together. I didn't think we were together. That's what he says. I didn't think we were together or I don't think we were together. He then acted confused and said he just didn't know what was going on right now. Why are you asking me that? He was prepared to answer questions about something completely different, about how everyone thinks he killed his wife rather than this. So he is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Turns into somebody else. So now he's flustered.

[James Petregallo]

He's flustered, doesn't know what to do. He's sweating and stuttering and everything. So he was living at this time in Etna on his family's property. So he replied, like I said, didn't know anything about him about this, but I don't know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, he was being cooperative. They thought for a while there.

But he also said during this time that he had never left the Gateway with any woman. So he said, I might have left at the same time as her, but I never left with Her. He did, however, say that he had sexual relations at about that time with an unknown woman in the lounge's restroom.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Didn't even get her name.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't even get. I don't even know who she was. Just took her in the bathroom and banged her out in there. It made her hold on to the urinal. Now.

This can't be a huge bar. I've seen a picture of the bar. It's not a huge bar. A small, small town bar at this point.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he was born. What, he's in his 20s, mid-20s at this point. Late 20s, something like that. He is not an old guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do that kind of thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. When else can you?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, right. I mean, if you do it in your 40s, good on you.

[James Petregallo]

If you do it in your 60s, you're going to be like, sore for days. If you fuck in a bathroom, you're going to be sore forever. If you wait till your 60s and when you're 22, I don't know if you have the game to quite get. Get that accomplished.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, in your mid-30s, I don't know how you do that and not be like mid, mid, mid act and going, ah, what's.

[James Petregallo]

What am I doing right now?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What's going to turn this green in the morning? Yeah, it's going to be red or green.

[James Petregallo]

What am I doing myself? Jesus. Oh, God. He said he also doesn't know anything about any Gary Hicks. They go, maybe there's a Gary Hicks and we're. Maybe we're confusing you. And he said, no, I don't know any Gary Hicks. So, yeah, they don't know anyway. So, okay, at some point here they bring up what's up with the wife thing here, what's up with that? And he said, well, yeah, suspected of her. He said, you don't worry about that. He said, the problem is people think I murdered my wife. But she's alive. I saw her two weeks after she left the house. I know she's alive. That's why I'm not even sweating people saying I killed her because I know where she is. She's fucking alive. He said she sends Christmas presents to the kids every year and that her parents had had contact with her since she left. So anybody saying I killed her is crazy and that's just some bullshit thing that's going on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fair enough.

[James Petregallo]

He said if he had been at the bar on October 16, he'd stayed till closing time and had woken up at the aetna campgrounds at 4:30am If I did go there. This is what happened. But I'm not sure that's what happened.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If I did, I closed it. I know that.

[James Petregallo]

Quickly before closing. And I know I just sleep in my car at a nearby campground. I know I don't go home every day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I wake up in the campground. So there's the answers.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And the officers found out that his car, which was registered to his girlfriend Linda, had a really loud exhaust on it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Which had since been repaired in the last month.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, okay, so it was a muffler problem.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, loud exhaust. But it had been repaired after October 16, after Jerry disappeared and stepdad heard a loud car in the driveway. So the officers asked him why his vehicle had been sighted at 2am on Jerry Lynn Towers Street. And he just stared at them. When he doesn't have an answer, he just stares. That's his game. Which works. Honestly, it's better than giving a bad answer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I mean, he wakes up in a campground like Trevor in Grand Theft Autofile.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, exactly.

Like with gravel in his ear going, what the fuck happened?

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is exactly.

[James Petregallo]

You son of bitches.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is exactly the response I think Trevor would give if questioned by the police.

[James Petregallo]

When you can hear someone blink, that click, click of the blink. Because it's so quiet. Cause they're just staring. So a later communication stated that at the time of the interview, quote, Hicks was suspected of nothing other than a fling with a girl he'd met in a bar. Then during this interview, his live in girlfriend Linda came home and ended the interview and kicked the cops out of the house. Get the fuck out of my house. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. She was done.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's aware.

[James Petregallo]

As Ricker explained later on in an interview in 2009, he said, quote, she asked us to leave and we left. I was trying to be discreet, but she knew that there was something going on about a woman. Hicks, he said, had started shaking the moment he was asked where he let Jerry Lynn Towers off that night. As they followed up on other leads, they would die off. And there was still Hicks sitting here being weird and suspicious and staring at him and shit. So it's very strange now. Then they do some investigation. Let's find out about this wife and all that. And they find out he is in fact a married man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, right now?

[James Petregallo]

Right now. Not to Linda. They contacted the Aetna postmaster and asked if he had a street address for Hicks and that's how they found him to begin with. But they replied that the postmaster said that he knew Hicks personally and found him to be rather strange. You know, it's a small town when the cop can call for an address and the guy goes, oh, I know him.

That's some small town shit right there. Try, you know, try that in Salt Lake City. They go, here's his address. I don't fucking know that guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Also, how do you go to the male, the mailman? He just know. I've got four mailman. I haven't seen the same mailman.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In weeks.

[James Petregallo]

It's interesting. Yet someday when we do the Poughkeepsie serial killer, one, I am going to quote my mailman, because I can't wait. Him and all the other mailman. All the other mailman talked about the smell all the time and all that kind of shit. Same guy? Yep, same guy. So they said that he found him rather strange and said that Hicks's first wife had disappeared about five years ago.

And never to be heard from again. He and everyone else he knew believed that just like James had said. Everyone thinks that James killed his wife and then filed a missing persons report.

So anyway, his wife, where is she? Well, she's Jenny Lynn Cyr. Cyr is her birth name. 1/2 of Al. Half of Al in there. Cyr.

She'll be Jenny Lynn Hicks after she marries him. She's born February 6, 1954, so about three years younger than him. Her parents are Myra and Adrienne Cyr, and she's born in Danbury, Connecticut. Her family moved to Maine when she was a small child. She was in the Dixmont school system. She lived in Etna, Maine, which is a very small town. As a teenager, she went to Herman High School, which is about 150 students. And this high school serves several towns, including Etna, Carmel. Carmel.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All of them have 150 kids combined.

[James Petregallo]

Altogether, the high school has 150 kids. Wow. So not a lot going on there. Very small town. Now, when she was a freshman, Jenny met Jimmy Hicks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

On a school bus. On their school bus. He was three years older, so he's probably a junior. When she was a freshman.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Riding the same route.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. She passed him a note one day asking him to sit with her, which is every 16 year old boy's dream. Shit, yeah, I'll go sit with a girl. Awesome. He said, shit, yeah, I'll go back and sit with you. And they started a romantic relationship. Little teen relationship.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here, come back here and I'll tug on you.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he didn't have to tug on her. She didn't have to tug on him because she let him put it in her because she's pregnant by the time she's 16.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He knocks her up at 16 and they decided to get married.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is a school bus marriage.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Man, I hope it wasn't on the bus.

[James Petregallo]

God, I hope so. Those buses are gross enough anyway. Who knows what's wrong.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You don't have to even move on those. Suspension in those will move you. Do all the movement for you.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely.

So according to a lot of people, Jenny had some issues with her parents at the time. Teenage bullshit here. And she thought that getting married and having a child of her own would make her an adult with freedom and everything would be better now because her parents aren't telling her what to do.

Not really. And her parents did not approve of this marriage, obviously. Clearly with a pregnancy. Yeah. So 1970, they have a daughter named Veronica here. Jenny drops out of high school and they move in with her parents. Which real comfortable for old Jimmy Hicks to hear as well. You're gonna move in with these people who hate you and know that you're fucking their daughter. That sounds great. Really pleasant here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Those like adult complaints where you sit down and you're like, ah, the wife and the kids.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Christ. Yeah. Wife and kids. Jesus. You know how that goes. Let me do my math homework.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pass me a beer, would you?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Jesus, pass me a beer. Pass me a beer in my chemistry textbook, if you would. So they had the baby in 1973 and they get married. Jimmy finishes his senior year of high school and finds a job working at a local woolen mill. Now it says local woolen mill. I don't know if he's making wool products or the whole mill is made of wool. I'm not sure they call it a woolen mill.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or perhaps he's just sheer and sheep.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe you don't. That's got to be part of the process at some point, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the only way to get it right. Can't grow it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He moved on to a job with a construction company and actually got into a labor union, which is good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, nice.

[James Petregallo]

He can make some decent cash here. Jenny finds work at a local skating rink. I don't know if it's the same skating rink as Jerry went to or that was a bowling alley. Nevermind. Yeah, bowling alley. So over the years here, James is going to work a variety of jobs as a union laborer. Paper mills he works in. At one point, Jimmy and his father in law, Adrian, Jenny's dad, worked for the same employer. And the Two families moved farther north so that the men could be closer to their jobs. They stayed there for a few years, then returned back to the Carmel. Carmel Aetna area. And that's from Adrian.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Adrian hooked that up, I'm sure.

[James Petregallo]

I think so, yeah. By 1974, though, in the midst of all this, Jimmy and Jenny are getting a divorce.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, not going so great, huh?

[James Petregallo]

It is not. Little pink houses for you and me when it comes to these two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

It is not. So now by. They're having a lot of problems. Jimmy admitted to numerous affairs he's been having. That's part of the problem. He's fucking everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Seems like the type.

[James Petregallo]

And that he had also made sexual advances toward Jenny's sister, Denise.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Which will get you divorced quickly. So Jenny and Jimmy ended up putting their divorce proceedings on hold because they found out that Jenny was knocked up again.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

So she gives birth to their second child, a boy, in December of 74, and they pull the divorce papers and decide to try to make a go of it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stop trying to fuck my sister.

[James Petregallo]

You got it Here, I'll put it in you and leave it in you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stop trying to fuck our kid's aunt.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, stop trying to fuck Aunt Denise, please.

So by 1977, Jimmy and Jenny are living at the TN trailer park. TN, T and N. Not TN. Yeah. So the trailer park in Carmel, Maine, it is on Route 2 in Carmel, where that store that needs to be updated was, according to that reviewer. It's right down the street. Route 2 was a quiet road. It stretches from Bangor to Newport. So it goes through Carmel, Aetna, and then to Newport and also through Herman, where the couple, both of them had went to high school and ends up in Newport. Now the trailer park's a small trailer park, two rows of trailers. One of those. We've talked about that. Like on the way to Massachusetts when we saw that little trailer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just barely a park.

[James Petregallo]

Barely a park. We had a show a couple weeks ago that had a trailer park very similar to this. The Hicks family here lives in the second row, the one farther from the Route 2 from the main road. It's the second trailer on the west side of the court, lot number 28. The court features single wide trailers, little rooms, those little tiny windows that had cranks on them. Remember those bad trailers? Yeah. Little tiny yards. I do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like the ones with the panel windows.

[James Petregallo]

Those are cool. Like louvers.

Like an 84 Dodge Charger would have in the back of it. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like a Florida home.

[James Petregallo]

Like a Dodge Daytona from 87 would have those. Yeah. Flora Florida home.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That was a fun car.

[James Petregallo]

They were cool. They. I like those.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So cool.

[James Petregallo]

Those are cool.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I want to say my Shelby one's bad.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they were awesome.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Shop for one of those. They got to be 1200 bucks now.

[James Petregallo]

Or they're 38000 bucks. One of the two, it might be like a Supra, you know what I mean? Where they're just so expensive. Who knows.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We'll see those car. The motors were useless. They're oh, garbage for about 2,000 miles and they explode.

[James Petregallo]

Then it's a dodge from the 80s. It's an American 80s car which are not a good era.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Loved that car though.

[James Petregallo]

So for work in 77, Jimmy is working with the Paul Lawrence Construction Company and he's working in Woodland Maine that summer, driving three or four hours each day for 115 mile commute. He's working hard. He would get out of bed that summer by 4:30am each day and leave the trailer by 5:15 so he could start work at 7:30. Okay, so that's a two hour and 15 minute goddamn drive. That's rough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's long man.

[James Petregallo]

That is long. In the morning he said he made the long commute so he could be with his wife and children in the evenings. Whereas most of the men just stayed at the job all week. They stayed out there. He said he came home to spend time with the wife and kids because he's a family man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's a good man.

[James Petregallo]

Now Jenny does stuff too. She does them. She very good at cakes. She makes elaborate creative cakes that she's very good at.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Early.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she is like early adapter of cake boss. Shit. Like if she had a TikTok channel she could have crushed it. Killed it, crushed it. Unfortunately, she just had a trailer in Maine that she made cakes out of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The videos too early.

[James Petregallo]

Very much. Yeah, yeah. Almost 50 for Christ's sake. At the end of it. So yeah, at least 40. So she did all of that. She made a Greyhound bus cake for her best friend's father who I guess retired from Greyhound. Also for additional income. She did this or sometimes she just did it for people as gifts. She also started working as a quote, as a kitchen helper or a tray person they called her at the Penobscot Nursing home in Brewer.

Now she worked part time, split shift position and was a good employee there. In order to take the job though, she had to find a babysitter. Sure. So she's got a friend named Linda Elston who lives next door to her in the trailer park and she volunteered to babysit for the kids until Jenny could work out a better arrangement temporarily. So you can start this job. I'll do it. Jenny was also arranging to start CNA courses, certified nursing assistant courses as well at the nursing home to further her career. She also would require childcare for that.

[Sponsor Announcer]

So.

[James Petregallo]

So she needs like a permanent babysitter. She needs like a live in au pair, which you don't find those a lot at the tnn. Single wide trailer park. No, you know, not really. So it's a problem. So anyway, Linda and Wayne Elston live next door. Well, Elston or Alston, I'm not sure. Either way doesn't matter. Linda and Wayne. Linda's good friends with Jenny and Wayne has known Jenny, Jimmy since kindergarten.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How about that?

[James Petregallo]

They all live. Yeah, they live there. Wayne was serving in the army and Wayne was transferred to Bangor until after his mother's death. The couple had two daughters. The oldest was the same age as Jenny and Jimmy's daughter and their youngest was about the same age as their son. So it's an easy watch, basically for her. She's doing all the same things.

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you how to dress better with Quince.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Quince q U-I-N c e dot com.

[James Petregallo]

You know it. Cold mornings, holiday plans. This is when I need my wardrobe to work for me. This is the thing. That's why we love quints. They make it easy to look sharp, feel good and find gifts that last. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, Quint's pieces are crafted from premium materials and built to hold up without the luxury markup. And that's the thing. You're going to get great quality stuff for an amazing price. Quince makes the essentials every guy needs. Mongolian cashmere sweaters for 50 bucks. That's amazing. Italian wool coats that look and feel designer and denim and chinos that fit you the way you want them to fit you. Their outerwear lineup is no joke too. Down jackets, wool top coats and leather styles that are built to last. I got a sweet leather jacket for them that I've been wearing. I like it a lot. Each piece is made from premium materials by trusted factory that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production as well. What they do here, you say, how do they have quality stuff for so cheap? You cut out the middleman. There's somebody who's not making your clothes or wearing them and they're getting money. So what's going on there. That's what they do. Cut out the middleman. All the traditional markups. Quince delivers the same quality as luxury brands at a fraction of the price. It's everything you actually want to wear. Built to hold up seasonality after season. I've gotten so much stuff from there. I've been wearing this leather jacket all fall, the whole fall through. I love it. You got your linen pants. We are big fans of quints. Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with quints. Don't wait. Go to quints.com smalltown murder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com SmallTownMurder Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com SmallTownMurder now back to the show.

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about a better kind of safe. SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

SimpliSafe.com S I M P L I safe.com that's right.

[James Petregallo]

If you could stop somebody from breaking in before they got inside, why wouldn't you want to do that? That's the greatest. Yeah. Most old school systems, they go off after someone's already inside. The alarm's going off. Big deal. They're stealing things. They murdered grandma. Who cares? At that point, it's all over. What's the difference? So you don't need that. That's too late. Simplisafe is different. It's proactive. They'll keep grandma alive with a double layer of defense that stops crimes before they start. You've listened to this show. You need this. There's a lot of bad stuff out there. First AI powered cameras spot potential threats outside. Then live agents stop. Step in talking to the person through the camera. Get out of here. You're not allowed here. Go. Letting them know they're on video and the police are being called right now. So get out and go. They can even trigger a loud siren or a spotlight. That's how you stop crime before it starts. There's no long term contracts or hidden fees. You can cancel anytime. Named best home security systems by U.S. news and World Report for five years running. 60 day money back guarantee. So you can try it and see the difference for yourself. We use it. Our houses, our studios, everything. I can't put together an IKEA coffee table, but I installed this. No problem. That's. I'm telling you, it's good stuff. Super easy. It's great. You can do it too. And you really should because I feel better with this. I really do. And for the holidays, protect your family. What are you doing out there? This month only takes 50% off any new system. This is one of the best prices you will ever see from SimpliSafe. Don't miss it. Hit simplisafe.com small again. That's simplisafe.com small and lock in your discount. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thrive Market.com oh, you know what?

[James Petregallo]

The holidays are coming here and it's a time for connection, not chaos. Between the baking, the gifting, the gatherings. No one wants to spend precious hours in a grocery store with strangers. That's not what you want to do. And with Thrive Market, you can simplify the season. Get yourself premium healthy groceries for your entire family curated and delivered to your door so you can just skip the whole store garbage and save your sanity this holiday season. They have premium pantry essentials all the way to non alcoholic, bubbly and nostalgic snacks. Thrive Market put your holiday pantry on autopilot. That's what they can do for you. So and that's what I do too. So I can focus on the good stuff and not grocery store aisles. Between wrapping and hosting holiday parties, the last thing I want to do and the last thing you want to do is go to the grocery store to track down the seasonal and harder to find items. Thanks to Thrive Market, I can grocery shop from the comfort of my couch and I really do. I love Thrive Market. We order this stuff all the time. I love how you can find like the gluten free options for Sarah. It's great stuff there. You don't have to compromise health absolutely. But you can still look for the good little holiday snacks that I've been getting from there. Some of them I didn't even know existed, which is really cool. I'm like, wow, they have this. This is great. So Thrive Market makes it simple to keep things festive and healthy this season by restricting over 1000 sketchy ingredients from the site. So everything you shop for is high quality and trustworthy. Thrive Market creates healthy, high quality groceries, personalized so you can filter by dye free, high protein, low sugar, you name it. The smart sweets are really, really good and Thrive Market added their seasonal sour snowflake flavor. And that's pretty good stuff. You probably want that. The holidays are always a Time to reflect and give back. Which is also why we love Thrive Market's mission. Through their Thrive Gives program, every membership purchased sponsors one for a low income family, teacher, veteran or first responder. Because access to healthy groceries shouldn't be a privilege. That's a fact. I love this. They have a lot of great options for things. Super easy to shop here, right to your door. There's no reason not to shop at Thrive Market. You can do it too. Go to thrivemarket.com smalltown murder to get 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show. Yep.

[James Petregallo]

So they knew Jenny well, this couple. Linda considered herself Jenny's best friend. Their house was. Their house wasn't in the trailer park, but it was across a short dirt drive in the park and a few hundred yards down. Their house is there. So it's a two minute walk. It's like across the street pretty much. So she said, quote, this is. Linda said, either I was at her house or she was at mine. Every day mostly while Jimmy was at work. And they would often go shopping and all that. And he said that Wayne said that he's known Jimmy since kindergarten. They'd been friends. He was mainly friends with Jimmy's brother rather than Jimmy. He said that Jimmy's brother was involved in sports and so was Wayne, while Jimmy, quote, pretty much did himself during school, quote, unquote. Just whacked it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I get what he means, but he.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty much did himself, you know, after he graduated from high school. He said Jimmy didn't seem to hang around with any of the friends and he would spend his time with his family. Like his brother. Yeah, he's his brother, his father and his wife. None of the other kids are married with a child. Probably is why.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, the goddamn father, for Christ's sake, man.

[James Petregallo]

So Wayne said about Jenny, she was just a very nice person. She would do anything for anyone. And Linda said she's an awesome mother. Awesome woman, a mother to die for. Weird again, strange way of putting it. So they're living. They have two kids, Jenny and Jimmy. Jenny is. We described Jimmy before physically. Jenny is described as 57125.

Dark blonde hair. And everyone said at the time, worn in a style similar to Farrah Fawcett, the late 70s. Farrah Fawcett do thing. Yeah. So anyway, Jenny here, they said, you know, she wore glasses. They said she was attractive, long light hair. Her glasses she needs badly. She is blind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Terrible eyesight. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Here, not good at all. Now, Dwayne, the Neighbor said Jenny seemed to be living two or three different lives. He said one when she was with other people, one, a good life with her kids, and the third, a terrible life with Jimmy. Oh, yeah. She said. He said the marriage clearly had trouble, but she would never tell anyone what it was all about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hmm.

[James Petregallo]

Now here's a story from Jenny's mom, Myra. She said Jenny's marriage seemed all right, but then later stated that her daughter went out one night with a young man while Jimmy stayed home with the children. Jenny never came home that evening. And Myra, the mom, said she saw her daughter in a car the next day. And she said, I yelled at her and said, what kind of mother are you for staying out all night like that? So she got yelled at by her mom for staying out in traffic. In traffic, in public. So they're in need of a babysitter, a permanent Linda can't do it all the time, so they end up coming across the perfect situation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What's that?

[James Petregallo]

A 15 year old named Susan Matley. Okay, now, Susan, you'd think, oh, maybe she's a neighbor kid and she has a lot of free time, right? I know. No, not at all. She's actually a ward of the state of Massachusetts who ran away from her foster home and hitchhiked to Maine with two of her friends.

A fugitive, otherwise known as a child fugitive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's crazy. Wow, an absconder.

[James Petregallo]

Yup. The guy who gave them a ride to the Carmel area said when they arrived, Susan, who was a small and slender girl with blonde hair and blue eyes, decided to stay there with the guy who gave them a ride.

She hitchhiked and was like, I'll just stay with you, can I?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Since you're giving, since you're being so, so generous today with a ride, have you a room?

[James Petregallo]

Have you a bed and room? And Bowen, please. This is a guy named Dwight Overlock. And Overlock and James Hicks went to school together but weren't close friends. Now, his family introduced Jenny to Susan and they agreed. I got this 15 year old girl in my house I don't know what to do with. You need a babysitter. What if we move her into your house and perhaps we could traffic her? Perhaps I could sell her to you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is going on?

[James Petregallo]

Perhaps I could sell you a sophomore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Would you enjoy a child?

[James Petregallo]

And she said, sure. Now, at the time, Susan was describing Overlock, who was at least in his mid-20s, as her boyfriend, by the way. Okay. Now I don't know if he's trying to get rid of her. Or what? Here. So they, quote, hire her now. This is how they hire her. Okay. This is crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it is.

[James Petregallo]

It gets crazier. In return for watching the kids when Jenny was away, Susan earned her room and board as well as cigarettes. So they're going to pay a child in cigarettes?

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're going to pay a child in prison. Cigarettes and a roof. It's prison.

[James Petregallo]

We're going to pay a child in cigarettes. That's crazy.

Pay a child who's our high school friend's girlfriend in cigarettes. Okay. She slept on the top bunk in the children's room too. She slept with the kids, just smoking away. I just picture up there smoking away in that bunk, just smoking cigarettes on the top. That's it.

Oh, man, this is hilarious. So while the other kids slept on the bottom bunk. So they slept together on the bottom bunk. She slept in the top bunk by herself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I got top.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy, not surprising to anybody, quickly made advances on her, obviously.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Of course. Why not? You're already committing a multitude of crimes of child endangerment and other things. Why not throw trying to fuck her in there too? Disgusting. So apparently one afternoon when Jenny and the kids were away, he kept grabbing and pinching her and backing her into the refrigerator.

This has turned into the accused now. This is horrifying. So Susan fled the kitchen, takes off. Jimmy would follow her. And we don't know if it was on purpose or not, or Susan doesn't know if it's on purpose or not, but he burned her neck with a cigar after throwing her onto a bed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

This is a 15 year old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Threw her on a bed and burned her with a cigar. What the fuck? She started crying for him to let her go, so he did. Now here's the thing though. This is in July. July 6th. That was July 1977. On July 16th, 1977, Susan told Jenny about what happened. Oh, Jenny is not happy at all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

And so they argued about it. Jenny was upset obviously about this and argued about to Jimmy saying, one of us is going to move out of the house because this isn't going to work. You're trying to fuck our sophomore babysitter here. So they've had. Apparently these fights are not a novel thing for them. They happen all the time. That blow up into you're leaving or I'm leaving. But Jimmy had always been able to convince her not to go. But this time he seemed like he fucked up too bad to fix. So it's bad. Jenny was not letting this go. Sunday, July 17th, Jenny, Jimmy and their little boy went for a long drive. I don't know why they left the daughter home, but whatever. They stopped in a small town of. Whoa. Ken Dus, Kendus Keegan, K E N D U S K E A G. Then Kendeske. Yeah, I don't know. And Jenny and Jimmy argued further about the situation. Sure. They decided Jimmy's gonna be the one to leave because, you know, I'm here with two kids. So, yeah, you know, you should probably leave. Jenny would keep the kids anyway, Jimmy said. Told people he thought he'd be able to change her mind before the end of the month when he had to get out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the couple went home, and On Monday morning, July 18, Jimmy got up and went to work as usual. Jenny and the kids went to see her sister Denise that Monday morning. You know, the one he tried to fuck when they lived with the parents.

So after the visit, Jenny headed to Bangor to buy some ingredients to make cake for the neighbor, Linda's nephew. Cake ingredients. So they decided that the daughter would stay with the sister, Denise. So the sisters made plans to meet the next day for Jenny to take Denise to a dental appointment in the afternoon. Okay, that's how this goes here. The scene is set now, July 18.

That'S the day where this is all going. On the 18th, they're going here because. No, that was the Sunday. Okay, that was what they did. Now the 18th is the day of the dental appointment. Jimmy's at work. Jenny leaves with her children to visit her sister, then go to Bain for the shopping trip like we talked about. After returning home, she called Linda, her friend Linda, and asked if she wanted to go to Bangor with her tomorrow, but Linda says she can't go. She tells Linda she finished making the cake and they had plans to take the cake to Bangor the next day. And Jenny called and asked if she could come over, but Linda said she couldn't. She didn't have anyone to watch her kids. So Jimmy here, Linda said about Jimmy, quote, we couldn't just sit and talk when he was around. She didn't seem to quite dare to say anything. Once, when she had tried to visit Jenny in the evening, Jimmy Hicks had sat there listening and suddenly announced, I'll give you a ride home. They're in the middle of talking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Imagine you're there with your wife, and she's talking to one of her friends, and he's like, well, you're getting the fuck out now. Let's go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've done enough of this.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'll Give you a ride home. So Jenny just shook her head as if basically saying, don't go with him. Which she didn't. So July 18, spent the rest of the day with her kids, her sister and her friend. But at some point he comes home from work. Jimmy comes home from work. Now that night at 2:00am, neighbors hear Jimmy and Jenny arguing around the trailer. Because this is a small trailer park, a single one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a two row trailer park.

[James Petregallo]

Right. You might as well put your fucking lips up to a bullhorn and start arguing because you're in a tin speaker. Yeah, that's all it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just go shout at each other in your neighbor's bed.

[James Petregallo]

It's easier. Yeah. That way they can hear it clearly.

As they're listening.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. A little bit of insulation in between.

[James Petregallo]

You and their ear. Yeah. So then the next day, Jimmy says, Jenny's gone. She's missing. She took off. Yeah, gone. She's reported missing by both Jimmy and Linda, the neighbor here.

So Jimmy, the cops come to take a report. Jimmy tells the cops that she, quote, probably ran off with a truck driver.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably.

[James Petregallo]

You know how that goes when you can't find your wife. What do you think? Fucking a truck driver probably, right. That's what I think.

Jenny's parents said she's not fucking any truck driver. She wouldn't leave her kids is what they said. They said she would have never run off and left her kids behind. Nor would she have not contacted us to tell us what was happening. She would have called us and said, I left, can you go get the kids? Or whatever. So it made no sense. So Jimmy said, I've been looking for her, can't find her. And the parents said, I looked for her, I can't find her either. They talked to Jimmy here and basically in his version of the events, Susan, the babysitter went out on a date that night. The night that they argued and Linda disappeared and Jenny disappeared. She'd gone out on a date that night with Dwight. Overlook Overlock, the guy who gave her a ride and then took her in. He and Jenny watched television. Were watching television when Susan returned from her date at about 11 o'. Clock. He said he didn't talk to her because he was angry about what she told Jenny. She told on me. I'm not talking to that bitch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, she ratted me out, he said.

[James Petregallo]

Jenny did speak to Susan briefly. The couple stayed up a little longer talking and then went to bed. Then Jenny brought the son into the bed with them and the three slept together until he got up and got ready for work in the morning. He drove the family car to work as he needed to have some repairs made to his truck. That's what he said. So they talked to Susan, the babysitter. She said, I got home from the date at 4am, not at 11 o'. Clock.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How old is she that she's staying out till then?

[James Petregallo]

15. Well, she's already working for cigarettes, so at this point.

She'S pretty worldly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hayden. Pall Mall.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this is crazy. She's like, pay me and Benson and Hedges, everybody. So she said she remembers seeing Jenny lying in a peculiar position on the love seat at one end of the trail while James watched television at the other end of it. She said that.

She was, I guess was approached by police. And she said jimmy Hicks was there and told me not to give any information. That's what she told the police. She said that. Yeah, she wasn't supposed to do that. And she said that also, I guess they talked about she shouldn't. Jimmy specifically told her that Jenny. That she shouldn't mention that Jenny left her eyeglasses behind when she left because it might give the wrong impression.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Now here's what she saw when she came in. She said, quote, I opened the door and seen Jimmy sitting down in a chair and Jenny was laying down on the loveseat. And I asked him, I said, is Jenny asleep? And he said, yes. How was your night? I said, fine. And I walked into the bathroom. Then I climbed onto the top bunk, the bed. And I was scared, nervous. I was listening. Now, when asked why she had been afraid, she said, quote, things didn't seem right. Yeah, but very important that this is 4am and not 11am because people heard them arguing at 2am, 2am which wouldn't have made sense. This story makes no sense unless she comes home at 4. She said that things didn't seem right. She said Jenny was wearing her blue bathrobe and laying down in the loveseat, but her feet were scrunched up and her head was like one eye and half of her nose and her hair was more or less covering her face. She said Jenny's arms were kind of like in a different. In different weird positions. She looked like she was in an uncomfortable position, not a natural.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, like you wouldn't lay down like that. She's going to be in pain when she wakes up.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Yeah. So she said. It was real awkward. I guess. Jimmy told Susan that Jenny was asleep, but Susan feared that Jenny was not. Well, so she said after she went to her room. She got into bed and heard slippers scuffling across the floor and then heard the trailer door open. She said she was afraid to investigate what she heard and she hid under the covers and eventually fell asleep. Why? Because she's a child and she knows.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That this is bad and just doesn't know why this is bad.

[James Petregallo]

What do children do when they're scared? They pull the covers over their head. That's why you know, you shouldn't be fucking them. That's how you know, working for cigarettes or should be working for cigarettes. So people close to Jenny said that her vision was so poor she never went anywhere without her glasses. One of her friends said that on one occasion, her sister, this woman's sister had removed Jenny's glasses from her face in jest. And it made Jenny very nervous because she couldn't see anything and it freaked her out. Another one said that her sister also said that she only removed her glasses to sleep or to take photos. That's it. She had some big old glasses on her. She had the glasses like that the chick on the wire had. Who was dancing, Freeman's girl.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So the wires, that.

[James Petregallo]

The big old fucking grandma glasses with, like, a chain around the neck to keep them on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The De Niro wears at the end of Casino.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the Nan glasses. Yeah. And another guy that we know. Roar.

So anyway, Jimmy said Jenny had left her glasses and purse at the trailer. That's what he told the cops. Susan stayed home alone at the trailer for at least a few hours while he said he drove around looking for Jenny. Jimmy stopped at his mother's house and left his son with the mother. Then Jimmy's brother left the mother's house with him. After a couple hours, the brother supposedly returned to the trailer, picked up Susan and took her to. To a fair in Bangor. We can't find Jenny. Let's go to the fair with the sophomore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get in, Susan.

[James Petregallo]

Why? When the three returned, a light was on inside the trailer. Jimmy went inside, then came out again claiming that the glasses were now gone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, now the glasses are gone.

[James Petregallo]

So Jenny must have came back and got them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy Hicks returned to Denise's home later that night and told her that both Jenny's glasses and purse were gone. So she must have come back while I was gone. I don't know. I can't help it. Now, the babysitter said she saw Susan, said she saw Jenny's glasses and her purse at the trailer on July 19, but didn't see Jenny. So at some Point Susan called Linda and asked if she knew where Jenny was. Neither thought anything was seriously wrong because they'd been fighting and they knew that he tried to diddle the babysitter, but they didn't know where she was either. When Jimmy came home from work, Susan told him that she had not seen Jenny all day. Jimmy then went out to look for her and make some telephone calls. He also called or visited Linda and Wayne, the neighbors and friends there, and visited Jenny's sister Denise, as we talked about, and went to her parents house as well.

And finally his own mother's house. He took the son with him. On the last visit, the son had stayed home with Susan for some of the evening. The daughter was still with Denise. So we don't know exactly which where he went when, but that's the whole totality of where he was. Now the sheriff's department looking into the missing persons case finds a neighbor who tells the officer she overheard a fight between Jenny and James Hicks on July 18th that night. Where he says the babysitter came home at 11 and she says it was 4am.

So she said that she heard the fight and stated that it was not any worse than numerous others she had overheard, meaning this is normal for them. Susan also stated that Jenny and James Hicks fought after Jenny went to visit her sister earlier in the day on July 18, but also that she had witnessed similar arguments. But this last altercation involved pushing and shoving.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Uh oh, people put hands on each other.

[James Petregallo]

They're putting hands now, Mom. Jenny's mom, Myra said that three days after the Jenny was gone.

He. She was told by Jimmy Hicks that, that he had seen Jenny in a car in Newport. He told her mom that Jenny didn't want to talk to him and that she only asked for her clothes. So mom said, quote, newport's a small town and I walked all over and never ran into my daughter. She was like, if she's in Newport, I'll find her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll see her. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, one week after the disappearance, there's a woman named Linda Dunifer. Not Linda, not the other Linda, the neighbor. This is a different Linda. This is a friend of Jenny here. Said that a week after she disappeared, a woman called her on the phone and identified herself as Jenny. She called and said, hi, it's Jenny. The caller wouldn't say where she was, only that this Linda was to tell Jimmy Hicks to deliver her clothes from the trailer. And they said, well, where do I tell him to go? And the caller told this Linda that Jimmy knows where I am and where to bring my clothes. Around the same time, Jimmy calls Jenny's employer and demanded that they release Jenny's last paycheck to him, which is highly odd. Someone leaves you, you don't try to take their paycheck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You don't.

She's.

[James Petregallo]

If someone died. If someone died and there's a death certificate, your wife died, you go get your last paycheck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She didn't even quit her job.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's what I mean. They said, we can't do that. So he yelled and screamed over the phone, then showed up at the nursing home the next day, angry.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he was denied the check again. So he cursed them out and said, I'll be coming back with the police.

To get her check because they're involved in this somehow. Yeah. Right. Now, late July of so months have gone by here. Late July rolls around. James Hicks reported that he saw his wife about a week or so after she disappeared at the Gateway Bar near Newport. Remember that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The Gateway Bar obviously would later come in handy, come into a big thing here. But no one could find any evidence that Jenny had actually been at the Gateway bar in late July 1977 when he said he saw her. According to James, he had been with his brother that day when he saw his wife sitting in a car in front of the Gateway with a tall, dark haired man. Supposedly, Jenny told Jimmy that she was staying with this man, a friend of hers and his parents in Waterville, Maine. And she claimed that she was planning to go to Florida with them in their Winnebago. She did ask how the kids were doing. They good, okay, great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I gotta go.

[James Petregallo]

And everyone's like, no, she was obsessed with her kids. She wouldn't be like, I'll be in the Winnebago. Kiss the kids for me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

P.S. hope they're all right.

[James Petregallo]

So Jimmy also tells everybody that Jenny's fine. Tells other people that I not only saw her there, I've heard from her. I saw her in Augusta, in Waterville, in Newport. She's also been seen in New Hampshire and down in Florida. She's around, don't worry about it. August 15, 1977. There's a. An article here in the newspaper. There's a picture of Linda, by the way, for you. They said relatives and friends said they're seeking information as to her whereabouts. She's been missing from a trailer park. And they give all of her major stats and say that she wears her dark blonde hair in the style of actress Farrah Fawcett Majors. She was married to Lee Majors at the time. September 1977.

I guess. Jimmy says he spots Jenny and a chase ensues. Oh, yes, apparently this is Wayne, the friend. Neighbor. He and Jimmy and Jimmy's brother George drove into Bangor, where Jimmy hoped to find someone he thought who lived on Ohio Street. Wayne Elston said he was not made aware at the time of the reason for the trip, nor the identity of the person that Hicks was trying to find. But when James Hicks was told that the person had moved from this apartment they went to just two days before, the three of them drove away. And Wayne said eventually they stopped at a set of lights near Harlow Street. Wayne said, at that moment, James said he had just seen Jenny drive by in a car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I seen her.

[James Petregallo]

I seen her. So he then turned around and pursued her up Harlow street and slowed down when Wayne cautioned him against driving past the speed limit. So then the pursuit ended, and Wayne said he didn't know which car Hicks was even chasing and that he didn't see Jenny drive by. But it was just Hicks went, there she is, and flipped a bitch. So, February 1988, Jenny's mom writes a letter to the Maine Secretary of State asking whether her daughter has renewed her driver's license. By the time of her birthday. She knew it was up.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, it was about to expire. So if she renewed it, then she's alive. Chase is on. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And she also indicated that she believed her daughter's disappearance was either the result of foul play or, quote, self destruction. She said, quote, she has two children, a girl, seven, and a boy, three. And she is a very shy girl who would never leave the house by herself, especially walking, like her husband said she did between 4 and 6 in the morning with no clothes or pocketbook or her glasses. She's nearly blind without her glasses. What I would like to know is if she renewed her license this year. I realize he could have done it to keep us from looking for her, but if she has a new address, she most likely would have it on her license. She said, I'm her mother and very concerned about her whereabouts. If you can tell me if she's renewed her license and the change of address, I would very much appreciate it. At least I would know she was all right and perhaps someday she will come back. It's a sad letter. It is now April 25, 1978. 78 years gone by. Jimmy gets arrested for speeding and operating a motor vehicle under suspension of his license, and he's fined $30. Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a $30 fine.

[James Petregallo]

$30. October 1978, Jenny's parents run into Jimmy on the street.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. This was in Madawaska where they were living, the parents here. She met Jimmy on the street and asked about Jenny. She said, quote, he said she was in Florida. She said that she told Jimmy that she checked into Jenny's whereabouts and that she was not in Florida. So mom said that Hicks then told her that she's in New Hampshire living with a boyfriend. Same thing, you know, New Hampshire, Florida, same place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Tropical New Hampshire, you know? Now, mom said, quote, I think that's a lie. I think you killed her and hid the body. And at that point, he replied, quote, you'll never prove that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

And that was the end of the conversation. Okay.

Again, this guy either stares at you or says some crazy, incriminating shit. What are the two?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't say. You'll never prove it.

[James Petregallo]

You'll never prove it. Oh, what are you, a comic book villain? What the F. The fuck? December 6th, 1978, Jimmy is again arrested, this time for operating a motor vehicle while under the influence. He's fined $200 for that. That'll cost you 10 grand. Nowadays in Arizona, one of those. Never mind. 200 bucks and your life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It'll ruin your life.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, ruin your life. Now, Linda, this is when. Member Linda Marquis. Marquis, whatever. This is when he gets together with Linda in 1978. Jimmy's moving on. They're in love. They're going to have two more kids together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So in addition to, they have her two kids, his two kids, and now their two kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yours, mine and ours.

[James Petregallo]

She said, I call them his, mine and ours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hey, there it is.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. That's what she said while laughing.

So, okay, now he ends up living with Linda. It goes totally cold with Jenny, they don't know. So then, late 82, early 83. This is in the midst of the Geralyn Towers investigation, how we got where we are in the first place, Right? Okay, so the matter at this point of Geralyn Towers, because this is just all what they discovered going back over everything, Jeralyn Towers here. The matter came to the attention of the state police when the Newport Police Department was in investigating this unrelated matter that had nothing to do with any of this, and then came up with information that indicated foul play in the disappearance of Jenny Hicks. They're investigating Geralyn Towers and they come up with all this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

So this is interesting. They said, looking back on it, the cops say at the time the disappearance of Jenny was treated by law Enforcement officials as a missing person, not a homicide investigation or anything like that. They looked around, she wasn't there. She's an adult. Fuck it, she's gone now. Jenny's mom, at that point, they go back and talk to her more and they're thrilled. They have got nothing from the cops. For years, no one has talked to them. Their daughter just is vanished off the face of the planet. Wow. So she is happy to tell him. I ran into him on the street, I accused him. He said, you'll never prove it. And Jesus Christ. They had fights all the time. And on several occasions, Jenny had been hospitalized due to these fights.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good Lord, it's a lot. Did you hit her?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Yeah. Jenny was also treated for various other injuries, injuries she thought Jimmy had deliberately inflicted on her daughter. So they request her medical records and they find there's a whole bunch of little things. A scar here, crack thing here, little, you know, broken bones where you'd find that you could identify her with if you found a body. So then they also interview other neighbors, former next door neighbors of the Hickses here when they lived in that trailer at the TNN park. And she said, this neighbor said that she had seen Jenny with black eyes and a bruise on her thigh before. She'd also seen Jimmy chasing Susan around the trailer. I don't know what that means. She said that on the last night anyone had seen Jenny, she heard yelling and at one point Jenny had seen, screamed, stop, please stop. You are going to kill me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Doesn't get any clearer than that, folks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, that's it.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, by the way, I know, listen, I'm the mind your business guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I've called the cops once in my life. Like I'm mind your business once. Because at 32nd street and Bell in Phoenix by that Jack in the Box, I was online and there was a guy absolutely beating the living shit out of a woman in the next parking lot while she screamed for her life, like holding her by the hair beat. And it was like 100 yards away. Like, I was like, I called the cops. I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do over there? I don't know who these people are. So I called the cops and yelled at the guy, hey, stop. The cops are coming, you fucking idiot. You know, it would have taken me forever to get there, so. And it was 110 degrees out anyway. Even mind your own business guy will call the cops in this situation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. You can't let a lady get beat by a man. That's just how it is if you.

[James Petregallo]

Hear a woman yelling, stop, please stop. You are going to kill me. When the kill word comes in, that's when you can go ahead and call the cops. They're not fair enough unless they're rehearsing for a play. I think you're good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unless they're rehearsing for 12 Angry Men.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And about a week after Jenny disappeared, there had been severe septic problems in the trailer park, especially near their lots. Uh oh. So they interviewed other people and mainly other neighbors. A couple of children supposedly told older members of their family they had heard screams that night that Jenny disappeared also, but their memories weren't very clear. By 1982, a relative of Dwight Overlock, the babysitter fucker there allegedly or whatever, reported that he had seen Susan with a black eye at some point after Jenny had disappeared and thought that Jimmy Hicks had done something to Susan too. So now he's beating up the sophomore on top of it. Wow. One particular deal here was there's one of Hicks girlfriends named Fern. Fern, who's five years younger than Hicks, told police that in early February 83 at her home in Gilman's trailer park in Newport, she had been with Hicks for some time. She'd started dating him not long after Jenny had gone missing and had been in a relationship with him for well over a year. He's been living with Linda, having kids for five years. So while this woman was with him, Hicks had remodeled the trailer that he'd shared with Jenny. And she said she didn't know why he'd redone the mobile home because it, quote, already looked pretty good to her.

You know, take out rugs and carpets and all that. He also gave her his furniture and then sold the trailer. Oh, he gave his marital mattress and box springs to his mother, but they ended up going to the dump. This woman said she had seen the mattress and that there was, quote, a great big blood stain on the mattress that was about 18 inches in diameter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a great big blood stain, all right.

[James Petregallo]

Not a nosebleed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Now, either Jimmy or his mother had explained that at some point in their marriage they had been arguing and that Jenny had either fallen or. Or he had hit her or somehow she cut her back. You know how that goes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cut her back.

[James Petregallo]

Cut her back wide the fuck open, I would say so. Now, they said that they wanted to get rid of the mattress no matter what the source of the blood. She said she'd been living or staying at the trailer with Jimmy and that he initially refused to get rid of the blood soaked mattress and they had slept on it together.

This show, Small Town Murder is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com Absolutely. You gotta, you gotta rewire yourself and you have to kind of redo your traditions. Therapy can give you the space to create new meaningful traditions, providing clarity amidst the holiday chaos. Because it's a lot going on the holidays, a lot of traditions. People may have traditions and their family. While some people might have any, they might not have any, or they might just be starting traditions of their own.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Start a new one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now's the time to reflect on what they mean to you or to rewrite those traditions and make your own. Like perfecting a new hot chocolate recipe with the kids or continuing your great aunt's sweet potato pie. Incorporating therapy into your new existing traditions can help ensure you take time for yourself during what can be a very joyful. But let's be honest here, hectic and sometimes lonely time of the year too. Yeah, yeah. That's what you got to do. Share your, you know, you can do it. Share with somebody. That helps a lot. You know, I'd like to start some new stuff going on here, but it's hard to do. So you got to. That helps.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You see some coaching on that, on that direction too.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. And therapy during the holidays is kind of essential. You're going to have to deal with family members you might not want to deal with. You might be lonely, you might have memories come up from past stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's so much here baggage.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Back to the show. Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

She said that they had a normal sex life. However, he was often rough, including when she was very pregnant with their daughter. He knocked her up, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't be rough with a pregnant woman.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy. She also said Jim is manly. He swears and cusses a lot. She said she didn't know anything about.

That's manly. We're men, Jimmy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy fuck, am I?

[James Petregallo]

I'm major and I'm such a man. I'm just a man.

So. She also said she didn't think that Jimmy had been very close to his brothers. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She said he was a hard guy to get close to. Now, the state of the investigation. The criminal division of the Attorney General's office had become involved with this case after the Towers Geralyn Towers case. So did the Maine State Police. So everybody combines together to try to figure this out. Essentially, they figured out that the disappearance of Jenny Lynn. Law enforcement had conducted a botched investigation. That's a quote from their report. They were just like, well, oh, well.

So they said police had never investigated the Jenny Lind case as a homicide or even a missing person. They just accepted Hicks's story that she just left.

Now, Ricker, remember Officer Ricker who started all this?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is he an investigator now?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He got the call about Jaralyn in the beginning. He said, when they were reexamining it in 82. I can't even describe the excitement of the Cyr family. It was all bottled up in them. Why hasn't she. Hasn't anyone listened to us? It was just unbelievable. Some of the people who became involved with Jimmy Hicks were, for lack of a better word, victims of society. The case was not more rigorously pursued because Ricker believed, quote, because of the type of people they were. Trailer trash. These were all trailer trash. That's exactly what they were. Drunks and trailer trash.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Low income alcoholics.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said to some, they simply seem like the kind of people who would just leave. But he said, but Jenny was not that kind of woman at all. She was working on his career and very reliable with her kids. And not the type of person who isn't some trailer trash alcoholic, you know, that's not her.

So they're looking into Jenny Lynn's disappearance again here and October 5, 1983, after all this, although no body has been discovered.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hey.

[James Petregallo]

He is indicted on murder Charges for Jenny. Not for Geralyn, for Jenny.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think it's time we stop saying nobody, no crime.

[James Petregallo]

Nobody, no crime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think it's. Everybody shuts the fuck up about it. Because it can be done in the trailer park.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it can.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If there's no body, we can prove that they are dead either way.

[James Petregallo]

In the TNN trailer park. It's true. This is, by the way, they're going to try to make this the first case in Maine history with a conviction without a body. Wow. Back then it was no body, no crime.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, now we can just get DNA and all that. We don't need the body we have. Right. We know where they are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Paper trail and forensic. No fucking money, wherever they are. And that's impossible.

[James Petregallo]

So. Yep, so he's taken to jail.

They said that he was indicted for the murder of his wife Jenny. When they. They press asked the cops, where's the body? And they said, it hasn't been recovered. And they were all like, huh, what the fuck? We find out he is eligible for bail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I'll read from the paper. The Bangor Daily News. In unprecedented main court action, two men and a woman all facing murder charges. Not in this case. Two separate people besides him were made eligible to be released on bail following hearings at the county Superior court. Superior Court Justice Jesse Briggs set bail at $60,000 with up to three sureties for these three people, including James Hicks.

Yeah, the prosecutor said, I've been prosecuting since September 1973, and it's the first capital case I'm aware of in which bail has been set. Oh, so they don't understand, I guess. Following these hearings, the judge said that last year's main Supreme Court decision regarding accused murderer Nancy for Debt had given the lower courts discretion in establishing bail for those charged with murder. She said, it's not an automatic bail. Right, but you could do it. So he is granted a bail of $60,000 with three sureties, but he's unable to post it anyway, so he's held to jail. Doesn't matter. March 1984 is the trial for Jenny's murder. Seven man, five woman. Jury opening statements. The prosecutor, Fernand LaRochelle here, he says he's gonna produce a witness who can testify that a fight took place in the trailer the night of the 18th. And that witness, a neighbor, heard a woman yelling and sounds that sounded like hitting and saying, don't. You're gonna kill me. The witness also will testify that after a brief silence, she heard what sounded like Someone chopping wood outside the trailer. Oh, my God. The state's case will also hinge on testimony from Susan, the babysitter, the runaway, who they've tracked down here. She has all of her things. They describe how she saw her with the. Didn't. She saw the glasses and the purse, how she was laying in an awkward position. The prosecutor said Jenny had poor vision and did nothing without her glasses. There you go. So the defense, by the way, the blue bathrobe she was wearing that night is also missing. So she left in her bathrobe with no glasses or purse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's not.

[James Petregallo]

She left like Steve Martin in the Jerk, but didn't take any stuff with him. Didn't need his paddle ball or his remote control.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's Tony Soprano. Just getting the newspaper.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. And she just kept going. Kept walking, kept walking, getting everybody's paper, not even getting hers. Just kept walking right by it. The paper was still there. Damn it. So the defense is that, no, they said there's no fight in the trailer. There was no broken furniture, no blood stains, no sign of a struggle, nothing to indicate death. They said the key element here will be the character of Jenny herself. So they're going to try to rip the victim. The fundamental. This is a quote. The fundamental point of this case is simply whether you will believe to find it in yourselves to convict someone of murder if you don't even know a death occurred. There is no solid evidence that a death occurred. He said, we're going to show that Jenny was involved in an unsatisfying marriage, that she experienced two undesired pregnancies with him, and that she was generally dissatisfied with her life. And for the last five years, James Hicks has been living with Linda, the mother of his two children. And they've, you know, all that. He said he's not a murderer. Quote, jim Hicks is a family man.

From all I've heard, that's one thing he's not. If anything else, it's not that. So the prosecution, their case, they get Denise, who is Jenny's sister. She says that she had come to see her the day that she disappeared and that, you know, she returned to the trailer and, you know, all that kind of shit. She said what we said before, she said about Jenny, quote, she was happy with her kids. She was very close to her children. She said Jenny was upset at the time and that she told her, either Jimmy would move out the following week or I'm gonna move out and go and I'll go live with mom and dad, basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

That's what she said. Jenny's parents testify, obviously, they testify about her eyesight, how she never went anywhere without glasses. They have to establish all this. All this here. And they said that, you know, they didn't believe it when they heard him say that the glasses were there. Then they weren't all that shit. So cross examination on mom here, she admits. Mom said, she admits that she did not try to find her daughter in Florida, even though James Hicks told her that she was in Florida.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

She said, quote, I know I've lost my daughter. I'm not out for revenge. I just want to know where my daughter's body is. Because they said, what is your feelings toward the defendant? She said, not out for revenge. I just want to bury my child.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just give me closure.

[James Petregallo]

I'd like to have a funeral, you know, that'd be nice. When asked by the defense attorney why she hadn't informed police of James Hicks's claims that he had seen Jenny, she responded, the police didn't do anything from the beginning, so it was pointless to ask them. Basically dumb. She said that when James first told her of the disappearance, he said, I'll find her. She'll have some explaining to do, or I'll kill her. That was his quote to.

Now. They said also, they. You know, they said, you said in your letter to the state that she was dissatisfied with her marriage and her life and that she might. She could have committed suicide. She could still be alive. You said in your letter, you don't know what happened. And she said, quote, I just wanted them to come out and investigate. I wrote it to cover any possibility, but they're using it. Like, if you didn't even think she's dead, why should the jury think she's dead? You're her mom. You know what I mean? Then they get Susan up on the stand, and she testifies the babysitter that she found Jenny in that weird position on the love seat. James had told her his wife was asleep and that.

Both Jimmy and Jenny had disappeared sometime the following morning, leaving her new eyeglasses and her pocketbook behind in the trailer. And the pocketbook reportedly contained credit cards and Jenny's driver's license as well. Wayne, the friend, Wayne Elston there, the neighbor, said that Hicks told him one time that he had heard from Jenny and that she was in Newport. Elston here said that Jimmy told him on another occasion that he had heard from his wife in New Hampshire, and another time he heard from her in Florida. Linda Dunfer, not Linda Alston, a different Linda, she testified that a week after the disappearance a woman called and identified herself as Jenny and said that James knows where I am and tell him to bring my clothes. So then they asked this Linda, the prosecutor asked if. Did you believe you were speaking to Jenny Hicks?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she said at the time I thought I was. I mean before there was a murder trial and all, but now I don't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She said the only impression I got was she was kind of irritated with me because I kept pumping her for information and she couldn't get off the phone fast enough. Yeah. So we don't know who that call was from though. She said she called mutual friend, the other Linda. So both Linda's were on the phone and told. Not a lot of women named Linda anymore. You notice that? Not a lot of 20 year olds named Linda out there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I had a couple of girls in high school named Linda, two of them, matter of fact.

[James Petregallo]

And then it was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're in their 40s now. Yeah. And that was fucking weird.

[James Petregallo]

That was like a mom name. Then it was Linda.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was fucking bizarre to call a 17 year old Linda Linda.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds like a secretary, not a. Yeah, a child.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't remember. Well, one of them had a. A few boyfriends. But yeah, it's tough to. Tough to be like dearest Linda.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's weird to look at a baby and go, Linda, Linda. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's like looking at a baby and going Arthur, like really.

Edmund? Really? That's what your name is? Fucking good, Clarence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Even Edward.

[James Petregallo]

Edward is even weird. Anything with that in it. So anyway, she said she didn't relay the information to James or any other member of the family about the phone call. So Jimmy takes the stand.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I mean, I don't even know if this is as smart as say it. I don't even know if this is smart or not because normally go, oh, they have all this stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Force them to prove it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, force them. Yeah, don't say shit and force them to prove it. I guess that would be the legal strategy anyway. Now he says that Jenny had threatened to leave him numerous times with their two young children so that would keep him from quote, going around partying. Oh, he also said that he had not seen. That he had not seen his wife in a car in Bangor after she disappeared. Which contradicted the earlier statement by Wayne who said he was with him when that happened, remember?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

He said that never happened. They're like, okay, well other people said so he said that he and his wife argued the night before she disappeared and that sometime during the argument she told him that she felt tied down, quote, unquote, in their marriage. He said, she said she was going to stick me with the kids so that I couldn't go around partying. Stick me with the kids. Going to stick you with them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My whole life up.

[James Petregallo]

God, she can't have that. Jenny's. Yeah. So in later testimony, he says that he was approached by Wayne Elston, who said he had the address of someone who might help in locating Jenny. Jenny, James, his brother George and Wayne Elston drove to an Ohio street apartment in Bangor. That's where they were going, apparently. But member Wayne said, I didn't even know why we were going on the trip or who we were going to see. Oh, this guy saying he went here. James is now saying he went to this apartment at the direction of Wayne. Okay, so someone's lying. So he said that later, at a stoplight near State street, one of his two companions said he saw Jenny drive by. I said, I didn't see Jenny drive by. Wayne said it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He saw one of her friends.

[James Petregallo]

No. In the car. The guys in the car with him said Jenny just drove by. So he just turned around and started chasing the car. Meanwhile, Wayne said he was the one who said he saw her. He said he chased her several blocks, chased the car several blocks, but had no time. Saw Jenny in the car. And Wayne had countered that by testifying that he was the one with the address. And James was also the one who spotted Jenny in Bangor in pursuit. Cross examination on Jimmy should be fun here. It's a lengthy one, by the way, as you might imagine, he related a marital history of infidelity, frequent arguments, two unplanned pregnancies, and plans for a divorce.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ah, it's every marriage. Get over it, you fucking pussy.

[James Petregallo]

Come on. Who plans pregnancies? Give me a fucking break. What are you, the Royal Family? No one's planning pregnancies. At age 16, Jenny became pregnant. And then, you know, that's when he was a high school senior. They got married, you know, blah, blah, blah. He said that Jenny's parents suggested an abortion and possibly they might send her daughter to a convent school. They said, you're gonna get an abortion and go to a nunnery. That's what's gonna happen. Instead, he took a night job and Jenny dropped out of school and they got together, they got married. He said, jenny and I were both having problems talking about married life. Later on, he said, she fooled around and I fooled around. That's why the couple's divorce proceedings began in 74. She was pregnant. And he said, we decided to try again for the kids sake. It's for the kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's for the children.

[James Petregallo]

The day before her disappearance, Jenny had told him that she knew he had been making advances to the 15 year old live in babysitter Susan. Argument ensued and the couple went for a drive that lasted almost three hours. Shortly after midnight, he, Jenny and the babysitter retired to separate rooms, which first of all, I don't know how there's three bedrooms in a single wide. And second of all, she said she got home at 4.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, and why do you have to qualify where the babysitter went? My wife and I went to separate rooms. Who cares where the fucking babysitter went as long as it wasn't in a room with you.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty irrelevant unless she came to bed with me and then the wife went somewhere else. He said when he left for work in woodland in about 4:30am his wife was just lying in bed. He said his wife owned two pairs of glasses at the time. One was an old pair of insufficient subscription, the other was a new pair. He said he discovered the older pair missing after her disappearance. She must have been wearing them. So the jury again, seven men, five women. They deliberate for more than nine hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

There's a lot of going back and forth here. And they end up finding him guilty of fourth degree murder, which I didn't know existed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

That is. I think, I think that is you. You sold someone a hamburger 10 years before they had a heart attack. I believe that's fourth degree murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think fourth degree murder is.

[James Petregallo]

What is that exactly?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I own.

[James Petregallo]

It's reckless endangerment, essentially.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I owned antifreeze and they came in my garage and chugged it.

[James Petregallo]

I think it's Maine's version of negligent manslaughter type of deal is what it is. It's a lesser conviction carrying a much lesser prison term than obviously first degree murder or second degree degree murder. I guess because the crime occurred in 1977. Older Maine statutes will provide James with the opportunity for parole because it's. Back then they found that he was acting with reckless intent in causing his wife's death. That's fourth degree murder. Now, reactions to the verdict here, the defense attorney said, quote, I will say I was somewhat surprised at the verdict. He said, we're definitely appeal and all that. And you know, he felt that it was an unusual case and a difficult one to defend. He said, you Know, they said, is this a difficult case to defend? And he said, that would be a mild assessment. It's difficult.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I just found out about fourth degree murder.

[James Petregallo]

I didn't even know that shit existed. So I'm a lawyer. I mean, what are you supposed to know? Jimmy then speaks at his sentencing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He says, quote, I am not guilty, but someday it will be proven. I'll accept what the court gives me for now. Oh, they said, no problem, chief. You, sir, may fuck off. 10 years in prison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

That's all he gets? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

10 years to free yourself?

[James Petregallo]

Yep. It's the maximum that can be imposed for the crime of fourth degree homicide.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not bad.

[James Petregallo]

He's available for parole in five years. Eligible for parole. Taking into account the six months he spent in county jail.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I guess if you murder somebody in Maine, just make sure it's muddy.

[James Petregallo]

Well, make sure it's 1977 when you deal with this.

So then this is the most mind blowing thing of all. They set a bail for him pending appeal. The bail is for 30,000 and two sureties. His bail when he was just accused of murder before he was actually convicted of it was 60,000 and three sureties. This is 30 and two.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, that's because it was the possibility that he was a first degree murderer.

[James Petregallo]

Could have been a first degree guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now he's only a fourth degree, so.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Yeah. The sentence, the defense attorney said about the sentence. I wasn't surprised by it, but I thought there was room for latitude because of the exemplary nature of his record. Exemplary? He's got DUIs and banging chicks all over the place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's not a great guy.

[James Petregallo]

So he's going to prison. But this is the thing. This whole thing didn't start out looking to convict him for Jenny Hicks death. Do we remember how this started? Yeah, Geralyn fucking Towers. What about her?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where's she at?

[James Petregallo]

That's the point. Imagine you're their parents. You do this whole investigation and the guy that connects this to that ends up being convicted for something totally different. And they're like, what about our daughter?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And we got nothing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we got ugats on this guy. So anyway, they said that the case is still open. Investigators are stymied. The state police lieutenant said it's just one of those things where we hope something will break. We hope something will break. We did two cases simultaneously. We ran dead end on Geralyn Towers and went ahead on Jenny Hicks. Holy shit. That is remarkable. They said that the Geralyn Towers case has been gathering dust. This guy said we felt we exhausted everything we could do on it. When we had the Hicks case, we really had nothing that could develop on the thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Dead ends. Other than I think I saw him that night. Now, if he just stares at you and doesn't give you an answer, you're done. You got nothing to go on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What are you gonna do?

[James Petregallo]

You don't have proof. You don't have any kind of evidence. And you have a person who thinks they saw him that night and he just won't confirm or deny that, Won't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Even talk about it.

[James Petregallo]

He might have fucked her in the bathroom is what he says. So maybe, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I can't remember.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So anyway, they just thought it was very odd, this whole thing. They said that he said just to take off and leave kids. That's an unusual occurrence where a woman would desert her children like that. So they don't expect that Geralyn ran away, too. They said, though, they're still on the case and if the smallest whisper comes up, we'll jump on it.

Now, her parents, though, believe she's dead. They think she's dead by now. They said, quote, this is Mom, Quote, of course, nobody expects to ever see her again. Anybody who knew her knew that the first week that she wasn't going to run away from her kids. She was excited to see them that night. Yeah. This couple still lives in Newport, but they say her son, who was 17 when his mom disappeared, is now 20 and finishing a two year stint with the U.S. army. Her second son is 18 and her daughter's 15. And they're going to high school and doing all that. They said last spring, their daughter moved into the section of the house where Jerry had lived. Jerry's belongings, everything she left behind, was moved to a storage area. So they waited years, a couple years to move her. Shit.

The mom said that the family hasn't spoken to a police officer about the case in more than two years. Said, quote, we haven't heard anything. Not a word, not a thing.

So basically, they did the initial investigation and then they left Geralyn behind and just went down the Jenny track. Yeah, they said the family doesn't talk about her very often, but she thinks about her very often. Mom said there's always something. You go to bed at night and you think about the girl. You don't have any hope. In fact, I don't have any hope. But you still think about her all the time. Now, August 7th into August 8th here, two different days of newspaper articles. Is Jimmy gonna be a groom?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. State asks convicted man to admit slain Wife's death is the headline in this article. This is fucking. This is the most circular argument anyone's ever gonna have. Yeah, it's awesome. Okay, he's sentenced to 10 years in jail, but he is still technically married. He found that out when he recently applied at the town office near his hometown in Carmel, there for a license to remarry. The official said, you can't get a license because you're never divorced.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're already married.

[James Petregallo]

And even though he is convicted for her murder, there is no death certificate for Jenny, which is crazy. The only way he can get a license is to sign a statement admitting that his wife is dead. All right, so basically, the state has convicted him of murder and then said.

You can't marry this other person because we don't know that she's dead, even though the state convicted him of murdering her. So you better be pretty sure she's fucking dead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, let's get a death certificate for that family.

[James Petregallo]

Not that I give a shit whether this guy's allowed to get married or not, but I'm a person. That lack of logic drives my brain crazy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that's stupid.

[James Petregallo]

You, as a state, can't say, well, she could still be alive. You can't. You gotta divorce her. Say she's dead when you convicted him of killing her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Are they trying to get him to admit it? Is that all it is?

[James Petregallo]

Yes, that's part of it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the way to do it.

[James Petregallo]

Hicks said in a recent letter to the newspaper that if the state convicted him, that should be proof enough. He's no longer married. He said, no matter what. I know I had nothing whatsoever to do with my wife's disappearance. The state, not me, says she's deceased. The state, not me, should issue the appropriate documents of their convictions or set me free. If she's alive, what the fuck here? Now, obviously, he's appealed his conviction and everything else like that. His lawyer, Jimmy's lawyer, said that he shouldn't be forced to sign a statement acknowledging his wife's death. He said it would be a direct conflict to his moral beliefs. This guy's moral beliefs?

Wow. It's not something he wants to do. He believes she's very much alive and is going to walk in someday and clear the air. He's going to come back doing great. The next day, August 8th. Killer's remarriage stalled because wife can't be found. So they're talking about, he can't be found, and while in state prison, he's decided to marry Linda, a woman with. He's been living with for the last five years. She can't get a license. He's gotta sign papers. It's crazy. The whole thing's crazy. They said if they prosecuted for bigamy, they would have so much egg on their face, it would be an embarrassment. Yeah, basically, Hicks's attorney said you should just fucking get married, basically. Because if they prosecute you for bigamy, I'll be happy to defend that case 100% that you convicted him of murder. And, yeah, he said, I know. I had nothing to do with her disappearance, though.

So. He and Linda, though, have been living together since 1978. The couple said that Jenny's disappearance created problems for their marriage plans since divorce and probate proceedings were too expensive for them to pursue. Hicks won't sign the death certificate because he doesn't believe she's dead. The town clerk will not issue this until he gets that. And that's how it goes. Apparently, he couldn't afford to do the publication necessary. He tried to get to do a divorce the official way. And if you can't serve someone with papers. I was a process server, so I know this. You can serve by publication, which is.

Yeah. A number of announcements in the newspaper on several different dates.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. And you just.

[James Petregallo]

You have to have a paper of record.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

All right. And he couldn't afford to put these little ads in the paper. He said, all right. So that's why he's in this shit of a mess. Now, here is a random letter to the editor of this newspaper. Both these articles are in. Editor. If James Hicks truly believes his wife Jenny is still alive, why is he trying to get a marriage license? Shouldn't he be trying to get a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Divorce or fixing his marriage or fixing his imprisonment for ending.

[James Petregallo]

Well, I think. Yeah, I think at that point he would have just said, and.

I figure that it's dissolved since I'm convicted of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Murder or worse off, if the police can't find her. How the fuck am I supposed to.

[James Petregallo]

That's the other thing. Well, he said, they're not looking for her, they're just trying to blame me. December 20, 1984. He is released on bond, pending appeal. Whoa. Out awaiting fucking appeal. He was released on $15,000 double surety bail while awaiting appeal of the State's case. It's December 20th. He got out and said, quote, it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. He told his lawyer. Jesus Christ.

So he appeals to the main Supreme Court, which in Maine, I Believe consists of three lumberjacks, a jet ski and a badger. A bottle of antimimimus wearing a little tie. Yeah. And Mrs. Butterworth herself is there.

So he's challenging the conviction based largely on the basis that it was circumstantial evidence that was inadequate to support his conviction in superior Court. And he contended the jury should have been instructed on fifth degree homicide. What the fuck?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, there's a fifth.

[James Petregallo]

There's a fifth. What is that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think fifth degree is when you accidentally shoot them while hunting.

[James Petregallo]

That would be at least you shot them. I think fifth degree is they were around your car exhaust too long and got a disease in the future or something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fifth degree is when they're wearing all the reflective clothing and you still shoot them.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that would be first degree. So he said that the fourth degree conviction was barred by the statute of limitations and that they shouldn't have admitted into evidence certain statements he made and testimony concerning his wife's character as a loving mother. Shouldn't have been able to say she was a good mother. That's bullshit. You say that. You're waiting. Weighing this shit against me. Now. This was the first case in the history of Maine where a homicide conviction was obtained without a body. The first. No body, no crime there, which they're saying that's an appealable thing. Right away on that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So if it's the first one, then all the others should have gone through. And if they didn't, then mind.

[James Petregallo]

There's a reason. Yeah, there's a reason why he didn't charge all those other people and convict them. So he says. We're. This is his lawyer, James lawyer. We're in the position now of considering the appropriateness of an appeal to the US Supreme Court. He said he was waiting to read the opinion from the main Supreme Court to see if there might be any grounds for petitioning the high court on this. So he said there's never been a confession. They said there, you know, they said there's been several murder cases without bodies around the country. But in. In every. Or in virtually every other case, he said there's been a confession at least.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, and I didn't.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we can't find the body. Whatever. There's a confession. So that's something. This is nothing. You don't have anything.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You got no confession. You got nothing. You're just saying I did it. And the jury agreed.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said that in one of their direct or other cases, there's been direct evidence of the death. He said in one, the Bodiless case in Massachusetts. They found brain tissue in the defendant's pocket, which is a pretty good sign something happened. I don't have. I have, like, you know, like three nickels and a lighter and some keys in my pocket, but I don't have any brain tissue. Check for brain tissue.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've got my wallet, but, yeah, no brain tissue. It's all dry in there.

[James Petregallo]

Weird. All dried up. He said in this case, there was no affirmative evidence of a death. No blood, no. No stains, no murder weapon, no tattered clothes, nothing.

So the court here, the main Supreme Court, denies this appeal. The main Supreme Court does in a unanimous decision.

He said. Among the circumstantial evidence cited by the court was Hicks's declaration to her sister that she would leave her husband if she did not move out, but that she would never leave the children with him. So Denise had said, she told me the day before she disappeared, I'll move out, but I'm not leaving the kids with him. Fuck that. Her intention to deliver a cake to a close friend the following day, which she told several people about and made the goddamn cake.

And a neighbor's testimony that she heard screams and noises that sounded like wood being chopped. They said, that's enough.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I hate that.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's bad. So bad. The court said the jury could have concluded that Hicks killed his wife, put her hair over her face to conceal her injuries, dragged her out of the trailer and disposed of the body somewhere in the many miles he traveled to work in woodland, and that he inadvertently left her glasses and purse behind in a rush to accomplish these ends. The evidence could adequately have supported the higher charge of intentional or knowing homicide. The court said. You could have said the evidence is actually higher than what the jury convicted on. Yeah, it said the several classes of homicide which were available to the prosecutors at the time of the disappearance were eliminated in revisions of the main criminal code. So there is no more 4th and 5th degree murder. Now it's manslaughter and intentional. Yeah. So he has to turn himself in for prison now because his appeal got denied. He was on bail, awaiting appeal to the Maine Supreme Court. So Linda accompanies him to jail. She stays with him. 1985. July 16, 1985. Guess what they still don't have her body. A death certificate or death. What the fuck? They still can't get married.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why can't they just produce a death certificate?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. It's crazy. Even the Supreme Court says she's dead. She's fucking. As far as the State of Maine is concerned. This lady's dead. Super fucking dead. So this article says Linda Marquis is waiting. Waiting for a special piece of paper to be delivered so that someday soon she can become Linda Hicks. Ah, the dream of becoming Linda Hicks. She said she's patient, and they call her the patient and persevering fiance of James Hicks. Linda said on Monday that she called the state office earlier that day and spoke to a secretary in the criminal division about the death certificate. Linda said. She said that they would issue one this week. Oh, I said, I would like to have it in writing because I believe it when I'll see it. And she said, well, you'll get it sometime this week. I hope I can hold them to their word. If not, they'll hear from me again. So, yeah, they've been unable to get married, obviously. She said she's not been able to visit Jim Hicks, but has spoken to him twice since his incarceration and hoped to visit him in prison in the next week because he was getting transferred from jail to prison, too. She said she expected they would be married in the near future. She said, we'll be patient a little while longer. We'll get things rolling. We've got to get some rings and dresses, make it proper.

She said she wouldn't mind the possibility of getting married in prison. She said, it doesn't matter because I love him and that's the main thing. We've wanted to be husband and wife for a long time. She said she's happy that they're going to issue the death certificate, but she didn't want to have to go about it this way. She said she would have preferred that a waiver be issued from the state's Bureau of Vital Statistics to allow the marriage. She said the death certificate only reinforces the state's claim that she's dead, something that she and Jimmy still don't accept. She said she'll be found. She'll be found. That's what she said.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she's going to be able to. Allowed to visit Hicks in prison for about five hours a week. She said that they're interviewing her in her house and she points to a photo of Jim taken in April at a birthday party. And she said, does that look like a killer? Look at him. He's wearing a party hat, for Christ's sake. Holding a baby. Once I got to know him, I knew he wasn't. He's never, in all the years we've been together, abused me or even. Even verbally threatened me. He never Even threatened to break my neck. You know, like every guy does, right? No, that's good. They're not supposed to threaten you. They said they convicted him with no body, no weapon and they never even found one blood stain in the whole place. They based everything on an ear witness, not even an eyewitness, which is the next door neighbor. And also she said, by the way, the next door neighbor hearing you're going to kill me and chopping sounds, quote, if you heard that kind of noise going on, wouldn't you call the police right away? She never did.

She also said she is certain that Jenny is alive and with the help of the Child Keepers, K E Y P P E R Keepers, a Florida based organization that sounds like it molests children. That sounds terrible. Tries to locate.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Change your name.

[James Petregallo]

Good God. They try to locate missing children. They say 20,000 pictures of Jenny Hicks are being posted around the country. And the agency plans to age a photo taken of Jenny Hicks about some time to show how she would currently look. They said, well, how are the kids doing? And she said that the 14 year old, the first daughter from Jenny and Jim's marriage here.

Was six years old back then. She said she won't talk about it. She seems to keep everything bottled up inside. But she said, my mission is, this is Linda, to find Jenny, bring Jim home and stay sane through all of it. She said, I never rest. I sleep about five or six hours a night. If that's never resting, then I am never resting because I would love to get successful.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You've never slept a day in your life.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck me. I won't rest until he's home again. She said that she's hoping that with her numerous contacts with the news media and the help of the Chinese childkeepers, that Jenny Hicks will be found and this whole nightmare will be over.

So they say, how do you get by? And she said she relies on Aid to Families with Dependent Children, which is like, I guess like a child welfare type situation. The family's benefits will be reduced from $845 a month to 560amonth starting the next month. She's unable to receive anything for Hicks's two children because the couple are not married. She said, I've raised them since Jenny left and I'm not giving up. She said the job turned into a love affair because she said she began. Okay. She said she met Jimmy about a year after Jenny disappeared when she began working as a babysitter for the children.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

She said the job turned into a love affair. He's Got it type babysitters, he said. We were in the middle of remodeling when Jim went back to Thomaston.

I don't like living like this, but things will get better. The Lord is on our side. I don't think that's true. If there is a God, he seems to be against you. Obviously you got convicted of like something no one else in the history of the state's been convicted of. So you know, August 24, 1985, they get married in a ceremony at prison. Yeah, they get married. Absolutely.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What'd she wear?

[James Petregallo]

She got a dress, apparently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I know he's innocent. That's why I married him. That's why I stayed with him. If I have known or suspected he was guilty, I wouldn't be staying with him. Duh. Jesus. What do you think? Here? Yeah. So that's what she's doing. She's talking about the child keepers again. And, you know, Jenny's in Florida. She said there's a lot of facts and truth to come out. It was only about two or three weeks after she left that Jim saw her. She was in a van headed for Florida. Okay. 1990.

James Hicks is released from prison after having been described to have displayed modeled behavior. Oh, model behavior, perfect. In prison. Now, while in prison, his behavior with his wife wasn't modeled because his marriage falls apart. She did all that shit over nothing for nothing. I'll read from this book here. Always a man to overlap relationships. Hicks had already started seeing another woman, Karen Gomm. The two were married while Hicks was in prison and divorced in 1991. So he got divorced from Linda and married again while in prison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Karen had met James Hicks through his sister Melinda, who was married to James Hicks's brother, through her sister Melinda, who was married to James Hicks's brother Steve. So this is James sister in law? Sort of. Anyway.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck, man.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. James was in a pre release program in Bangor and he met Karen and started their relationship through correspondence. This Karen, Karen had two young children. Great. Bring a convicted murderer to your house. When she began her relationship with him, the Maine Department of Human Services removed the children from her custody. After that. Duh. An action she blamed on him.

Yeah. The children went to live with their father. Karen and James's marriage had numerous problems. At times when they fought, he would say to her, I'm not going to tell you if you did kill. I'm not going to tell you if I did kill Jenny. But I'm going to tell you I'm not going to tell You. I didn't either. Like beware of me basically. And then he would laugh. She said, she said there was an elephant of violence in the marriage and perhaps Hicks wanted his wife to be afraid of him and what he might be capable of doing to her. They separate three times before finally divorcing.

Now that doesn't matter because guess what, he's already involved with another woman. Of course it's fine. I guess he has. During the wow with Linda and Karen. He's, he's got, apparently he's got a. With Karen here. He's got a woman named Louise Robertson that he met while he was an employee at the Twin City Motel.

He started this affair in late 1990 with Louise while he was still with Karen. They met at the Brewer Twin City Motel where they both worked.

So now she knew that he was married to Karen at the time, this Louise. And she said that she was suspicious of some of the things he did but was he was never physically abusive to her. She said he did have, quote, an enormous sexual appetite. Oh, and at the end of the relationship he started getting rough with her. She lived in a mobile home park in Bangor with him for a while. They broke up a few times, then separated for good after he began seeing another woman, as we'll talk about, Lynn Willette, who was also an employee of the motel. Robertson, of course had a daughter with Hickses too. He fucking has to get every goddamn. He has to pass his shitty genes down through every fucking woman he meets.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Imagine being. It's a man's world. How do you do this and convince him? Raw dog and no control for children at all.

[James Petregallo]

No. All these women think they're going to be with him for the rest of their lives, but he's always got his dick in somebody else. He did not acknowledge, by the way, that the child was even his until he was forced to take a blood test by the court which came up positive for paternity. Of course this relationship with him lasts about four years, from about 90 to 94 on and off.

Now he told her about Jenny. This is what he told this girl. That's between me and God. Which is not what you want to hear from a guy. What happened to your wife that you got convicted of murdering? That's between me and God. Oh, okay, I'll be packing my shit now. He did tell her he had another daughter in Bangor who had been molested and murdered.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh really?

[James Petregallo]

He said somebody molested and murdered his daughter? Oh no. He showed her a photograph of some girls in a Bangor school and said the girl in question would have been born between 83 and 84 and died in 89 or 90. She also stated that Hicks was a petty thief. He was always stealing supplies and items from vending machines and that he became paranoid at the sight of blood. Interesting. Weird. So they interviewed both Louise Robertson and Karen Grom Hicks, I guess because they're married in the 90s, because they were continuing their investigation of James. Linda, his ex wife, was present at one of the police interviews with Karen Hicks. She was also present at one of the interviews with Louise Robertson. She was present because she had become afraid of James and had developed relationships with some of the other women in his life. And Linda had finally come to believe that he actually did kill Jenny. So the cops talking to Linda here? Yeah, I guess. Apparently they check out. People have been looking at his property over the years, looking for these bodies. Tammy Price, I don't know if that's her real name or not, but the book uses that name. Who is Jerry's daughter. Drove out to the property by herself one night just to look around. She felt like her mother was there. She said. She said in an interview in 2009, I went to pull into his driveway and slipped off into the ditch. She panicked, thinking that he had come to the door or someone had and, you know, she didn't know. So she was scared. She got her car out of the ditch and drove off before anything further happened. But she said she had gone several other times too, about the same time that she was investigating the property. James Ricker, the officer who's still working on this, interviewed Linda after learning about the divorce in 1991. It took place at the police office and he said in his report, quote, linda had come to my office to set the record straight for any problems we may have had during the first investigation. I initiated the conversation by asking Linda if she could give me some type of personality profile of James Hicks. She stated that he was very possessive, extremely jealous, and had a severe temper. She stated that she was never allowed to wear makeup or go outside the home unless she was with him. They're fucking Amish or something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

The only place she was allowed to go was a ceramics glass. No dudes there. Fine. She said she'd previously lied to the police as well. James Hicks had told her to tell authorities that on the night Jeralyn Towers disappeared that he had arrived home at 1am however, she stated he actually returned home at 4am.

He had told her to say this before he was convicted of homicide and the death of his wife during the trial and after his conviction. She said she had lied in order to protect him. Linda also told Ricker that the car James Hicks had been driving that night in October 82 was still in the backyard of his property. If you want to take a look at it. She said that he had removed the entire interior of the car, including the carpet and headliner, which.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who does that?

[James Petregallo]

Who the fuck does that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unless you're restoring the fucking car.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Or you've had a Pulp Fiction accident in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You shoot Marvin in the face by accident. That'll have it. According to Linda, the car had been, as far as she knew, still running when he drove it to the rear of their property and stripped it. So why would that happen?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's fine, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

1994. This is Lynn Ann Willette, another woman, 39 years old, born in Bangor. Parents Jane and Vincent Hinks. Her sister describes Linda as someone you could rely on to catch a fit, fix a kitchen sink and maintain a gorgeous garden. They said she could do anything she put her mind to. Type of thing. She does a lot of different things.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's a real man.

[James Petregallo]

She's an artist who was accepted into Disney's cartoon school in Florida.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

But turned it down to get married after graduating high school. Marriage was short lived. Then she joined the army as most artists do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I need her around my house. She sounds amazing.

[James Petregallo]

She can get some shit done. I feel like. She became a machine operator of heavy equipment in Oklahoma after that. After the army, she received an honorable discharge and eventually returned home to Maine after working as a paramedic in California and living in North Carolina with a husband that she divorced.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's fucking incredible.

[James Petregallo]

She's awesome. She was married. Divorced twice, which was actually four times, somebody said. They said Lynn was always getting involved with men who wanted to protect her. She hated that her marriage always ended on. Marriages always ended on good terms. But she was always the one who left. She had a strong need to be her own person. So 1994, she applies for a job at the Twin City Motel in Brewer, Maine. That place? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He worked there.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he works there. He is the maintenance supervisor and he interviews her and hired her to work with him doing maintenance. So he also moves in with her. Of course he does as you do. So they worked together at the motel throughout 1995. They had a pit bull named Felon. That's what you. They got it together and he named it Felon. And a bunch of other dogs and other animals as well. They shared an apartment that Was located behind two others in a two story house. It faced the Penobscot river with a few hundred yards of business and industrial property in between. That's where they lived. Autumn of 1994, Linda granted permission to James Ricker, who's now the police chief in Newport, by the way. He's gone from officer to chief.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's done as well. Done his job well.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck yo. He got a conviction on a no body case. Yeah, that's hero gives him permission to remove the 1973 Plymouth from the property. She turned over the car to him. And the crime lab here.

Isn'T going to be able to obtain evidence from a car so many years after the incident is what a crime guy, crime lab guy told him. Crime lab guy told him. So he asked her, can you think of anything else?

So then there's Vance Tibbets and Jean Worthley, who are the brother and sister of Geralyn Towers. They contacted the Newport Police Department. They did that in February 94. Vance Tibbetts said while serving time as a convicted felon for attempted murder in Maine State Prison, he'd met with fellow inmate James Hicks to try to determine if Hicks killed his sister. Oh, the warden and assistant warden were, according to Tibbets, present at the meeting. This wasn't like in the cafeteria or whatever. This was in an actual office in a meeting. Apparently Tibbets said, said that among other questions, he specifically asked Jim if he had killed Jerilyn Hicks. Tibbets alleged told him that Jerilyn had left the Gateway Lounge that night with a truck driver, which is his standard answer. These women can't resist the vibrations of the 18 Wheeler. They have to get in there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That diesel. Ah, God damn.

[James Petregallo]

He then refused to answer any more questions or submit to a lie detector exam and asked to leave the room. And they can't hold him. I mean, you know. Subsequent records state that Tibbets had contacted the deputy warden requesting the meeting with Hicks, though it was granted. And yeah, they said Hicks acted extremely nervous. Even with all the prison personnel and prison guards present, he wouldn't look Vance Tibbets in the eye. So just the, you know, she left with a trucker. Linda also says Jimmy contacted her and told her that missing girl in Newport. Her brother called Karen and was asking all kinds of questions. Karen is the one before Linda. Yeah. Or before?

[Jimmy Wissman]

After Linda.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yes. So, okay. Jesus Christ. So many Linda's.

He said that they are trying to put me back in jail. The two of them talked about what time Hicks had gotten home. That night in 1982, Hicks insisted that she knew he had been home at 1am she told him that it had been 4am she told Ricker she was afraid that Jimmy might do something to hurt her because he thinks that she has this evidence that'll put him away.

Yet. In 1982, Hicks had once stated he woke up at the campground at 3:50 on the morning of the disappearance. Remember?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And went home. But then he had her say one. So he's got conflicting things on that already. 1995, James Hicks believes he's being stalked. He calls the Brewer Police Department and makes a complaint against Vance Tibbets. Jerilyn's brother, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He tells the sergeant that Tibbets had just gotten out of jail and was following him all around. And so this cop contacted Tibbets and he said, yeah, I've been fucking following him. He killed my fucking sister. And he said he told the police department if. That if I'm ever missing. By the way, Hicks is a good suspect. Definitely. Look at him. So then the Brewer police contacted one of the detectives from the Maine State Police to ask about Hicks. And yeah, they said Hicks was complaining about Vance Tibbets. And this detective continued, I went to see Vance. He said that he would hound Hicks till the day he died. I told Hicks about Vance Tibbets, this is not someone to mess with. He will kill you. Yeah, don't fuck with this guy. He wants you dead.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's a bad man.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. He told Hicks about Vance. Oh yeah, he said. I told him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He told Hicks, bro, this guy's going to kill you.

[James Petregallo]

He's stalking you. He wants to. And I don't blame him. I'm not gonna stop him from doing it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm not doing anything about it. He's a lion right now.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And he asked him to take a polygraph and he wouldn't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

This Detective Zamboni, by the way, which is the most fun name ever. Detective Zamboni said approaching Hicks, he said he knew that Hicks would shut down if he came at him accusatorily. So he said he had to take a more of a we're partners in this approach. Like, you gotta help me. It's me and you. We're the only ones that can solve this. So in February 96, Detective Zamboni, which sounds made up, conducted an interview with Hicks at the Twin City Motel. And that was about maybe taking a lie detector test. And Hicks told Zamboni that he talked it over with his mother who was in the hospital. And with his girlfriend, Lynn. According to Hicks, Lynn told him that, quote, he didn't have to prove anything to anybody and that he didn't want to take the test. He did want to take the test, but not right away. Maybe sometime in the summer. More of a summer polygraph guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anything after Memorial, before labor, you know, somewhere in the barbecue season would suck.

[James Petregallo]

So during this, Lynn Willett pops up into the room because it's at the motel, and Zamboni talks to her about the polygraph. She looked at Hicks and told him, you're a big boy. It's up to you. Do whatever you want. Don't tell him I'm telling you not to. So Zamboni told him that he'll check in with him a little later. And then he took off. 1996. Yeah. She, Lynn Willett decides to leave Jimmy. Due to his possessiveness, she started moving her belongings to her mother's house in Orington. She took her dog there after building her a safe enclosure and stayed with her mother while continuing to move out of the apartment. She had her own car, a blue 88 Toyota Tercel. And James Hicks was driving a red Chevy Blazer. May 26, 1996. On a Sunday, James calls the Brewer Police Department and reports Lynn Willette missing.

What? He told them that Lynn had failed to show up for a family cookout that day and hadn't been seen since Saturday. He told the police that although they had split up, he and Lynn had left the motel together at about noon the previous day and gone to the apartment on South Main Street. He said they had sexual relations, spent the afternoon together, and had eaten sandwiches from the nearby Big Apple store. They had gone shopping and for a long drive in the country. Then that night, after the drive, he had let Lynn off at their apartment, and she had gotten into her car and drove away, but never made it to her mother's house. He says, I don't know what happened to her. I didn't do anything to her. He said she'd been depressed and insinuated more than once that she might have been suicidal. Although Lynn's writings, because she was taking a class and doing a lot of writing, indicate she may have just been despondent. Over the previous months, her decision to move away from Hicks and to keep her dogs have indicated that she was probably resolving some of these issues. He describes her multiple tattoos. A green heart on her shoulder, a green chain going down her chest, and a green and pink flower on her wrist.

Neighbors interviewed the following days said they had seen Hicks exit his red Blazer and enter the apartment alone on May 12th, 25th, shortly after he punched out of work. They never saw Lynn Willett arrive, which is what he said. They spent the whole day together, which is interesting. They also said they saw Hicks's vehicle between noon and 1 o'. Clock. And the guy said he had to make a telephone call and asked Hicks if she could use his phone. He said she could. Police searched the area extensively for any sign of her vehicle. They can't find it. They even searched back roads and gravel pits, everything. They did air searches. Friday, May 31, her car was found locked and parked in a back row of Dysart's truck stop in Herman, just off the I95 and Route 2. Her car. So they recovered her car. When they did, Hicks asked what was in it and he said nothing. And Hicks said, no, there should have been stuff in there. There should have been this stuff and that stuff. He stated at that point, well, yeah, she clearly ran off with a truck driver. Oh, they keep leaving me for these guys. She's at a truck stop, she parked her car and said, I'm leaving my life behind for this 18 wheeler.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You know what me and truck drivers have in common? Everything but the career. And they find a man with the career. And every goddamn time.

[James Petregallo]

Every damn time. And also after that, though, Lynn's bank account is not used, her paycheck's not cashed and she never made any financial arrangements for her car loan either. So, okay, Brewer and the main detectives now are just watching. They're stalking too. James Hicks, he's got many people stalking him now, but they can't get any evidence. They said they wanted to give him an opportunity to talk and fuck up, but they couldn't get him to say anything. So he said that, you know, all they have is the same story. By late 1996, only four months after Lyn had vanished, he moves in with an 18 year old girl named Brandi Mayo, who moved here from Texas. By November, they were already arguing and Hicks was refusing to let her leave the relationship. Wow. Joey Zamboni. That's his name, by the way. Detective Joey Zamboni.

Hey, Joey Zamboni. He contacted Brandi's mother, Ann, to tell her the situation and what this guy is and who he is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

She said they, you know, Brandi was working at the Twin City Motel as a chambermaid, but, you know, she said that her daughter's a good kid, but suffers from some self esteem issues and was concerned about her weight. She thought James was brainwashing her child. She also said she's seen bruises on her daughter. But Brandi told her that Hicks had not caused the bruising. The mom knew that Hicks could be verbally abusive and had heard him abuse Brandi when she was on the telephone with him. So she said that Hicks made Brandi stay home when he was at work, and she wasn't supposed to let anyone at work know that she was living with him. Jesus Christ.

Pattern. By the end of the year, the mom had heard through a family member that Hicks was beating Brandi, had kicked her in the ribs, and was otherwise abusing her. That family member talked to Joey Zamboni. She informed him that Brandi was only allowed to call at certain times and that Hicks, while drunk, had taken Brandi to a certain location and told her, this is where I took the girls, and this is where they still are. But then later denied it. When he was sober.

He met with Brandi Zamboni does to try to warn her. But he said, I got nothing. So I got the Brewer PD to pick her up. She filed a complaint. Hicks is going crazy, but he can't stay away. There's just a lot of pressure on the guy. It's pressure, but it's friendly pressure. It's strange pressure. He said that he compared Hicks to a moth that couldn't stay away from the flame.

Now, Brandi stayed with Hicks and became pregnant the following year.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

The Maine Department of Human Services removed the baby girl.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Because of Hicks, the state.

[Jimmy Wissman]

From her custody.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. Not from her body. You can't have this. Ever.

The state, through DNA testing, proved that Hicks was the baby's child, even though it was the baby's father. Even though he denied it, the baby was placed in foster care. Brandi had for some time denied that he was the biological father, but at this point, you really can't do that. He's about 46 years old and she's 18.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck, man?

[James Petregallo]

He then married Brandy in November 1998. They resided in a motel for a while. Then they moved to First street in Bangor, just off Route 2, for a brief period. Then they had another child, a son.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Class. Fucking class.

[James Petregallo]

And they moved to Texas.

To avoid having the Maine Department of Human Services remove the child from his custody. Psychological evaluation, by the way, for the childcare stuff diagnosed Hicks as having disruptive psychotic behavior and probable delusions of persecution. He was angry, resentful, prone to hostility, and projects blame onto others. He's likely to feel that he had gotten a raw deal and have periods of overly paranoid behavior. He was judged to be a recluse or to be reclusive, probably shy and introvert, unlikely to seek treatment and unlikely to cooperate in any treatment he might receive. So the state of Texas, alerted to the events in Maine brought permanent removal case against Brandi and James that went to trial in April of 2000. State of Texas requested that Joey Zamboni provide testimony about James background and criminal investigations regarding him. So they yanked that kid away.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

June 1999, Texas. June Elizabeth Moss, 67 years old, lived in Lubbock, Texas. She needed work done on her home and called a contractor. He and his workers. One of them, James Hicks, painted the exterior of her house. She wanted additional work done. Noted that Jimmy was a good worker and asked him if he did work on the side. He said he did on weekends. They reached an agreement, yada yada, yada. She paid him $100 for the completed work and agreed to pay him $750 to paint her inside walls and $250 to lay tile in two bathrooms. So he painted one or both of the bathrooms and some cabinets. Then she had a family illness. Had to stop it for a while. Here.

Just after the custody trial, when he lost his son, she called him again to Finish. This was April 8th and 9th, 2000, to finish the work. He arrived at the house. There was some back and forth about, you have to give me the money ahead of time so I can get the supplies, whatever. He ends up going and picking up the paint for the house. He supposedly also bought the tile, but told her that it would not be delivered until Monday. He returns to the Moss household. June Moss, her household backed his van up to the garage door and unloaded the paint.

She noticed that he was drinking beer. He asked if she minded and she told him that she didn't want him drinking in her house. He told her that even though he wasted most of the day running around for supplies, he'd start right away. She went in the house and sat down, heard the front door open and close. He brings in a blue bag. He comes over, stands in front of her and he's holding a gun in his right hand and says, this is real. I'm not going to fucking work for you anymore. All right, Just leave then. Yeah, she said his whole personality changed. He was red in the face and angry. Jim gave me, made me give him my glasses. Jim was walk talking very loud, you know, so you can't see. Yeah. And usually he's usually soft spoken. I tried to stand Up. And he pushed me back down in the chair. He then went on a tirade about his life and job. He told me he wasn't able to see his son anymore because CPS took his baby. Her. Him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Y' all have any fiestas?

[James Petregallo]

He said that I'm not gonna finish this fucking job. It's taken too long. I should have finished it a month ago, but I've had problems and you've had problems, but I've gotta get out of here. She tried to get to the phone, but he grabbed the phone and yanked the wires out of the wall, wrapped the cord around the phone and placed it on the couch. He then locked all the doors, disconnected the kitchen phone and ripped out the bedroom phone wires.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He then told her, I've been married four times. I killed my second wife and did 10 years in Maine, and I'm not going back there. I've got to get out of town, out of state, but it takes four fucking hours to get out of Texas. I'm not going to kill you because I like you. And besides, in Texas, they put you on death row. Then he grabbed her by the arm and told her, we're going to the bedroom. She said, no, I don't want to go in there. Let's stay in here. He yanked her and then fired the gun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He said. She said. We walked into the bedroom, then she was all ready to go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let's go to the bedroom.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, let's go to the bedroom. I got an idea. We walked into the bedroom and he told me to sit, so I sat down on the bed. Jim wanted to know if I had any money. And I told him that I don't have very much money. Then he asked me about jewelry, and I told him he could have whatever he wanted. Just don't kill me. So he ordered her back into the den and asked her if her husband had a German Luger. She told him no, he had gone to war, but not to Germany. He asked if she had a pistol. She told him she didn't. She had some rifles. He asked where they were. She went with him to a front bedroom and pointed to a closet where she kept the guns. Then he sent her back to the den. He.

Came back, locked the front door and told her to write him a check. She informed him that she had written her last check earlier in the day. Sitting there bitching, going back and forth about money.

He's looking through her purse and discovered she had recently cashed a check for $200. And he told her that Amount should be about what you owe me for the work anyway. Next he said, give me the title to your car.

So in the end, he asked her to turn it over. So she said she'd need her glasses back. He took her glasses out and gave it to her. She said when she asked who to write on the papers, he told her James Rodney Hicks. And the two went outside to get the current mileage on the car. And she sat down and finished filling out the title. He then had June write a note to her children. He wanted her to write that she was giving him the car and money and other items of her own volition. He dictated, dear Susan and Steve, I'm sorry, but there's nobody to take care of me. I'm giving Jim my car and the washer and dryer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man. So at this point, when he told her to sign her note to the children, she signed it June E. Moss, just as she signed everything else that day. And she said that Hicks wouldn't notice, that she wouldn't have signed her full name, that she would not have signed her full name on the note to her children. She would have signed it mom, not June E. Moss. So she did that to tell the kids, basically, in case you killed her. He then started pacing. He took out a beer from his blue bag and a Coca Cola bottle. He took the top off the 33 ounce soda bottle and told June to drink its contents. She asked him if it was poisonous. He told her it wasn't and he took a drink to prove it. She said, jim gave me the bottle and said, drink. I asked him again if it was poison. He said, no, it's cherry cough syrup. I put a bottle of regular in it. I asked him again if he was poison. He said, no, I got it at the Dollar store. Not poison.

So she's forced to drink this. She starts spitting some of it out. He yells at her. He then finishes his beer, opens a second, says, hurry up and finish the cough syrup.

Jesus Christ. So.

He then left her in the den, went to the bathroom and turned the water on. She didn't understand if it was the sink or the bathtub. Either way, she returned to where this was happening and ordered her to drink more. Left the room briefly with a stack of washcloths and then said, that was a stupid thing for me to do to leave you in here by yourself. She was able to escape the room when he went to check on the water level in the bathtub. She ran to a neighbor's house. He found her missing, went Looking for her and then ran. Got in the van and ran off.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Because he's now caught.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they. Anyway, they end up finding him, pulling him over. They found a gun, a photograph of June's daughter, and some torn paper the paper would prove to be the car title. And the weapon was a Daisy CO2BB gun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ah, that's a fucking jerk.

[James Petregallo]

So they arrest him. They take him to the Lubbock County Jail for processing, okay. Held on $250,000 bond on aggravated robbery of an elderly person. It's at this point he contacts a TV station in Maine by letter and tells the broadcaster he's got a story to tell him and asked him, do you want to be in the end, middle or beginning in getting the story? And he said, it will cost you this story. The reporter contacted, said, I don't pay for news stories, and contacted Joey Zamboni about the offer at the same time. He says, okay. He said, I want to tell my story, the entire story. He said he wanted to do it his way and be certain that the whole truth came out okay. Brandi files for divorce, by the way, after he's arrested for this.

So he's charged in Texas, like we said. He says, listen, I'll tell you everything. I got a deal for you. He says, I won't do it in Texas. You take me back to Maine and I'll tell you everything you want to know. And they said about what? He said, you fucking know what I'm talking about. So he said, I don't won't do it in Texas because I don't trust anyone down there. And he believes if he tells the story in Texas, he'll be left there till he dies. He said he wants to, quote, serve out his sentence in Maine because he doesn't get along with the Hispanics in the Texas jail and his friends and family are unable to visit him. He admitted to robbing June Moss, planned to plead guilty. They said, well, Bain doesn't have an arrest warrant out for you presently. And he said, well, when I tell you what I'm gonna tell you, you'll have plenty of arrest warrants. And then. So he said, okay. So they go down to interview him, and here we go. He admitted to killing Lynn Willett in their Brewer apartment. He says, all I'm gonna say is that I'll admit to a crime in Maine, the missing person case on Lynn, that I know where she is and stuff like that. But as for giving physical evidence or any evidence at all this time, I'm not Giving any.

He said, do I have to use the word death? And the cop said, yeah, you do. And he said, yes. And the cop said, you're not doing this because of the goodness of your heart. You're doing this because you want to go to Maine to do your time. And he said, yeah, I want to be sentenced in Maine and do my whole time in Maine, not come back to Texas at all. When I get to Maine, I'll cooperate and show you evidence and everything. So he said, well, be more specific. He goes, I can show you everything that I know about the cases. You've investigated these cases for over 20 years and no evidence? I've learned by watching television and reading detective magazines while I was a kid and talking to people. If you're going to do a crime, do it alone.

Then instead of the three main cases, he asked him about five cases. A few other women had come up missing in Maine over the years. Two of them the same time Jenny had disappeared. And he said, five? There's just three. Oh, yeah, I didn't do five. This was a way to try to trick him into saying exactly what he said. So he said, it's likely after you cooperate, the remains of the other two will be found also. And he said, what other two? I don't even know what you're talking about. What do you mean? What do you mean the other two? And he said, not just the Lynn Willette case. And he said, yes. He said, you're going to cooperate on Jenny and Towers? And he said, yes, I will.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So here we go.

Also, Zamboni identified one of the women in an exchange because he continued to assert he didn't know anything about cases other than the three, which he already agreed to help. The detective stated that the other two were women that were missing in the Newport area. He identified one of the women, Ellen Choate, and the exchange continued. He said, yeah, no, the only thing I know about was what I read in the papers. And they said, you had nothing to do with that? And he said, no. He said, there's another girl. Leslie Spellman was hitchhiking on Route 2 and found on Mount Desert Island. You had nothing to do with that? And he said, I have no. I have enough problems with the women I know, let alone going out and picking up women I don't know. So he said that Lynn died at the apartment and she'd gone there willingly. He said, oh, she picked up some mail that came there. One letter from the school and everything. I told her I could bring it to her like that. And she said she'd come get it. I told her that Friday, I think it was Thursday or Friday. And she said she'd pick it up because we're gonna be at work Saturday. So she stopped at my house. We talked for a while and then went for a ride and everything. And we came back and everything. And one thing led to another and I guess I just snapped.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He said the sex was willing, but he said he just snapped. He said Lynn didn't want to get in a fight when her sister got out of work or something to go to go by like that and see that she was there because she already told Lynn. Lynn had told her sister about my past, so she didn't want her sister to know that she was there. Basically, Wendy was so upset and Lynn figured my past would outweigh hers and get her to forget her problems. Okay. So anyway, yeah. He said that he had not actually seen Lynn in the car the day before she died. Rather had read about it. Hicks had told Zamboni that he had seen them in the car and even told him where the driver of the car lived. Okay. Hicks also said he didn't remember ever having ever told Zamboni there being a problem in the motel with a light in one of the rooms, or that he'd gone back to the office or that Lynn might have forgotten her pocketbook or something else. They said, how did Lyn die? And he said, suffocation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

They said, well, where is she? Or where is everybody? He said, it's at the other end of the Haynesville woods just before Halton. It's almost in Halton. I guess I can show you.

So, yeah. He demonstrated, it's all around Route 2. He said that near a field where I figured the town or somebody has took and made a place where they made a dump for salt and everything. You know, dirt from the winter. It's a place where they dump stuff like that. They said, what are we going to find there? And he responded, you'll find a five gallon bucket with cement in it. Should have her two hands and the head in it.

He stated that the bucket would be white, have a cover on it and be sort of buried. He said, I dropped it over the bank and threw some dirt over on top of it. I didn't have no shovel, so that's why it's only down as deep as whatever dirt they put on it. He also said it would have sunk into the ground a little bit too because it was a little wet. He said, okay, where might they find the remainder of Lyn's body? And he said, I don't know the name. That was Jenny is what he said there. He said, I don't know the names of the roads and everything. He said, well, first place we would probably go would be down Ellsworth Road. And he explains this very.

Intricate thing here.

He said, you'll find.

Lyn's torso there and more precisely, her arms and legs. They said you hacked her into pieces. And he said, pieces? Well, her legs cut at the joint at the torso. What do you call it at the hip is the word you're looking for for here. He admitted that he had not taken the time to bury what might have been the remains of Lyn's body. Rather, he put her torso in a heavy duty garbage bag and he did with her arms and legs and dropped it in between two rocks. He thought that he had put the knife he'd used under a flat rock in this general area. But he might have actually been thinking of an arm, not the knife. He wasn't sure.

He continued to ask questions. He said, how long had Linda been dead before he cut up the body? And he said, I'm going to say three or four days. I guess the blood in her hadn't started drying up yet. He said, well, where did you dismember the body? He said, at the maintenance shop at the motel. As you walk in straight down, you're going to go like into a paint room. You go past the bathroom, there's a walkway that goes to the left. It's right there. He put her body. He said that her body had been in a small wall partition for about a day, a paneled partition through which the part of the motel's cooling system passed. He wrapped her body in a blanket, then wrapped plastic around it. And they said, you had a confrontation with her and strangled her, right? And he said, yeah. And he said with your hands? He said, no, I used. What did I used? Huh? You got me on that one. What did you used? What did I use? He said, you don't remember, but you did strangle her. He said, yeah, I think I had something in my pocket. I'm not sure. They said, something like a cord or a rope. He said, rope or something like that because I was always playing with ropes and. And stuff. Okay, that's a scary sign. Right away.

He said, I transported her to the motel. I put her in a wooden box and made for my tools.

He said that he was going to store his own tools because I didn't want the motel owners taking over and thinking that they were theirs. So he goes. So into the storage box he put Lynn's body. Wow. He said her body was intact and clothed. He said that he moved her body one night, late night after going out to get beer, and that when he cut into her body, there had been so much blood that he blacked out from the sight of it. He said he mixed some cement, put some in a bucket and placed Lynn's head in it along with her hands and added more cement. Disposed of a bloody blanket in the dumpster at the supermarket in Bangor. Disposed of the bags with Lynn's body parts one day. Then perhaps the next day he took the bucket to the North Halton area.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. They imagine hearing that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Imagine. Yeah, just a scumbag saying that. And you're the first person to hear it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Well, he said he took Brandi to the site a couple of times, although he made it clear that Brandi never knew anything about it, but she wasn't lying. Yeah, Geralyn Towers. Then they talk about. And he told officers that he talked with Geralyn at the Gateway Lounge the night he disappeared, that she disappeared and that he bought her a few. Her and a few other women drinks. At closing time, they left the Gateway. He said Geralyn was just ahead of him. As they walked out in the parking lot. He had to open his car door via the passenger side door. The driver's door didn't open from the outside when locked. He said Towers was standing on the sidewalk. And when I unlocked the door, I got out to shut it and asked her if she wanted to ride. She said no, she was going to walk. She started walking toward flood store, down toward the lake that way. And so I got in the car. So he said he noticed that he's almost out of gas and decided to stop at floods to purchase more gas. While he was getting gas, Jerry came out of the store and said, all right, fine, I'll take the ride. So he said that they went to Newport Swimming Hole and parked between the sawmill and the lake. He said they talked for a while. Then he said, for some reason, I got in the back to get something or do something. She told him to get back in the front. He thought he had told her, wait a minute or wait a second or something like that. According to Hicks. The next thing I remembered, well, next thing I knew, she was strangled and she was dead. I don't remember doing it. He said that it wasn't done with a rope or anything like that. He said, but it wasn't no cloth. Must have been with my hands like that, because there wasn't no cloth or nothing. He said things were just. They just happened. It just happened, he said. When I realized what happened, I just froze for a few minutes. And like that. I don't know how long it was. Then I got back in the front seat, made sure she was dead like that. And I drove, actually drove through Newport and got on Ridge Road while I stopped there because I thought she was making noise or something like gurgling or something. Thought she might have been alive. So I checked to see if she was alive. And I couldn't find any pulse or nothing like that. So I put her in the back seat, laid her down on the back seat and just drove from there.

His girlfriend Linda was asleep when he got home, but she woke up. He told her he had to go down to the field or make some similar excuse to get back out of the house. So he said there was some debris nearby. So I laid her body down beside the woods and left a bunch of. I laid a bunch of cardboard and wood and stuff like that over her.

Wow. He said. Hicks started to tell the officers that one weekend when Linda and the children were away, he went down to the field, not knowing what he was going to do. Then he changed his story. He said, I got to back up here after I. The night it happened on the road in Newport, I put her in the back in the trunk and I drove home and left the next morning and went down to work at Peasants island or Seabrooks. I can't remember which one I was working at. And I go through the security guard gate and go come back again without them checking on me. And she was in there. And when I got home that night, that's when I took her down to the field and left her. He said he waited for about a week to cut her up because the blood was all like, dried up like Jenny's. And he said it didn't run hardly at all. He said he went down to the field, put her down on the field, put stuff over her. A week later he came back, cut her up, put her in grain bags and dug a hole and put her in it. He thought that the body. He had cut her body with a knife and used cutting insulation and similar materials. Wow. He said it was like a fillet knife or something like that.

He said that it's not even that. I guess he wanted a. He cut her body into more easily movable pieces and buried them in a four by four area. He said it's not even that big because when I dug a hole like that, I dug it inside of a building and no one could see me.

So he said then he went, took an exit off the highway, put her clothes in a dumpster. Said there was no blood on the clothes and she wasn't wearing any jewelry. He said he didn't have to take. He didn't take any jewelry off of her, which he did because she was wearing shit when she left. Then it's Jenny, the first one. He said that the children were home asleep when their mother died. He said that he also, which is the daughter, was at the sister's house. So it's interesting. He said that Susan did come home about 11. The babysitter, she wasn't lying. He said she was drunk. Not drunk drunk, but you know, she'd been drinking. It was about half to three quarters of a sheet in the wind. And he said he talked to her for a short time. She went to bed. And then he said Jenny was standing, I'm going to say probably three feet from me, like at the foot of the bed or on the side of the bed. And I was standing on the other side or the foot of it. And she was standing with her back to me. And then we was like talking. Like I said, like that. The next thing I know, she was lying on the bed and she was strangled.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She was certain shit like this Jeffrey fucking Dahmer.

[James Petregallo]

Then I just don't know what happened. He's just. His head was in a pot. I don't know what happened.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And then he's in the floor of my shower. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said he thinks he wore a. Used a belt to strangle his wife. They said what happened then? He said, now it's. They're all. They're all basically the same. It's like, I don't know how it happened. I don't remember exactly. I don't know why. Don't know what I was doing. But within a couple hours, he'd wrapped her in a blanket and he left for work. Left the body in the trunk of his Dodge Charger on the way home from work that day with Louvers, I'm sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Would have been July.

RT. So it's probably early 70s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Cool one.

[James Petregallo]

He said he stopped along the road. He said, you know all this, he was figuring out what he was going to do. And he said that he drove back and forth to work a couple times with the body in the trunk. He said it Parked it in the car and the driveway. I wouldn't let anyone use it. He still had to figure out what he was doing. He said, now you. What did you do with the head and hands? Because he chopped her up. Yeah, he said, put them in kind of an ice box, put cement in it. And he has a big chest cooler. Coleman cooler is what? He said the cooler was white and green.

And I'll show you where he. Where he buried it. They said, nowhere. Nobody is where anyone else is. He responded, nobody is where anyone else is. He said, no. Well, Towers and Jenny's. Jenny's head and stuff like that. And Towers is probably within a couple hundred feet of each other.

So they go out and.

Yeah, with Jenny. Said I had a belt on at the time. He said, and the next thing I remember, she's dead. He said that he had messed around on Jenny and, you know, all that stuff.

So he said Lynn was the one that really haunts me. I always think of Jenny because of the kids, but Lynn was one he felt the strongest about. He said, lynn's the hardest. It's not that I didn't love Jenny. I did, but it seemed like she knew me, how to make me feel better. And it was the same thing with her. She said that? Yeah, he just said that. That was. You know, he was very upset about it. Now he's gonna be charged for sure. Down in Texas. In Texas, he pleads guilty and he's sentenced to 55 years down there. Okay, so then he's charged with Lynn Willett murders, and he's expected to be charged with the Geralyn Towers murders. And he is. They do find the victims in the Haynesville woods outside of Halton, just where he said.

He tells them everything. The police were out there for a couple days, but then there was a neighbor, a local, just watching, never said a word. After everyone left, he wandered over, found two buckets and said to the cops, I think I found what you're looking for.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Found some buckets.

[James Petregallo]

So they looked for. They looked for more bodies just in case, but they never found anything else. The bodies are finally ID'd about 10 years later, and he pleads guilty to murdering, dismembering, and scattering the remains of two women. At sentencing, Geralyn's daughter said, I spent my life trying to remember what my mother sounded like, smelled like, felt like. But my mother didn't abandon me. You killed my mother. Cut her up and discarded her like garbage. I won't let you destroy my life. James Hicks. Today, my roller coaster ride Stops and I get off leaving you behind.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Suck it.

[James Petregallo]

Judge said you sir, may fuck off. Two consecutive life sentences. No parole.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Super. Suck it.

[James Petregallo]

Eat all the dicks. So that's what he gets. The book, by the way, is Tragedy in the North. The Murders of James Hicks by Trudy Irene Ski S C E E. Lot of info in there as far as police reports and stuff that quotes that weren't anywhere else. So there you go. Gotta get through this real quick. We're way late here. Definitely. If you like this show, head over to whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It helps a lot. Head over to shut upandgivemerder.com. get your tickets for live shows for 2026. They are out some new places. Buffalo, San Jose, places like that. Come out and see us. Please shut up and give me murder.com. follow on social media. Smalltownmurder on Instagram, smalltown Pot on Facebook. You certainly want Patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports anybody, $5 a month or above. Hundreds of back episodes you get immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder. You get it all. You get all the shows. We put out ad free and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show, which is right now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of. Well, patreon.com crimeinsports by the way. Hit me with the names of the people who would never ever dismember us and leave us buried in a field. Jimmy, hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This executive producer, Sarah.

[James Petregallo]

Group.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Group A. Maybe Gary Howard is in Olithe or Olathe. What? How do they say that?

[James Petregallo]

I think it's Olay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Something like Kansas.

[James Petregallo]

All.

Right. No one knows how you pronounce things. That's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Where is that? Atlanta. Zammel, Zamel, Zemel. Elena, thank you so much. Andy Frisch celebrating 31 years with Jennifer.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Married. Happy anniversary, you two.

[James Petregallo]

Rock on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

31 years, that's. They got to be in their fucking 90s, right?

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure it was each of their fourth marriages.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's gotta be our oldest listeners, right?

[James Petregallo]

Think so.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jason, Bo Basin. Thank you. And the fuck you looking at? Whoever that is. You guys are the best. Thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Motherfucker. That's our fucking answer.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're amazing. Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Happy Hours and Nolan's for Thanksgiving. That's brutal. That's got to be cold, right? He just ordered a new fucking truck. This the new trucks. Oh, they're so amazing. The over the Rig over the road truck they are in. They look like old ones, like from the 80s. They're boxy and shit. And it is so badass. I'm so jealous of it. Wish I knew how to pull shit with those. Jamie and Chris Metz. Sue Sadie, Saudi Sudie. I could probably drive it. That's a great point. I could probably drive it. Just figuring out where it goes.

[James Petregallo]

Not parking this thing. I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Kristen Hooper, Michael Song, Jen Maxima, Chuck Benda. Maxim Chuck. Rachel icher, Iker Fox 10. Gail McLaughlin, Heather West, Katie Eklund. Fatter Mike. Okay. Bridget Erickson. Josh Howard. No, that's Ward. Just Josh Ward. Melissa Steidle. Monsters with no last name. JP&M. Random Person. All right. Amethyst Morton. Patty with no last name. Nick Schneider's kid. Do we know Nick Schneider?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. He's got a kid. He slipped one past the goalie. Good for you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm gonna Google him next. Julie Edbon. Smurt Monkey. Smurt Monkey. Kristen Swinehardt. Swinert. Andre Beliakov. Christopher Romero. Squirrelly's Bar and Grill, wherever that is. Mitzi M. Rodney Thompson. Dustin with no last name. Melody Harris. Jessica Trant, Woody's mom. Rick with no last name. Jennifer Modroll. Andy with no last name. James Stone. Barger. Yep, that's right. Randy. I know. That's Brandy Brotherton. Holly with no last name. Luke Howard. Bath. Maria Hollander. Dana with no last name. Ryan with no last name. Bradley Nussbaum, George Burroughs, Samuel Wood, Danielle Tisch. Not Daniel Tosh. Dana Sinclair, Ken Sheckler, Sechler Sessler. Jessica Bellwood, Erica Brown, Emily Rose, Ramsvatan Kemp. Pamela. Check Patreon. Oh, that's what? I made a little note here. Pamela with no last name. Check Patreon. You signed up twice. Make sure you want both of those. Anna with no last name. Mo with no last name. Gigolo. Tony. The Ghetto Soul and the Ghetto Soldiers. Is that somebody that we.

[James Petregallo]

It's a doo wop group from the 50s. They sang around a burning garbage can, I believe. Are they playing Flat Top Tony in the Purple Canoes? I believe that's similar to them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Blake R. Stepper. Cat Marsden. Cute. Jelly Gross. June. Gene. Gene Russin. Rusin. Colton Graybill. Ashley Hilliard. Hilliard. Kevin Kelly, Bobby Raines, Melissa Kamer. K. Mer. Whoa. Crystal Hughes. Sver Sversky. Is that real Sverish? Arlene McGee. Kathleen Catherine Whitworth. Walter M. Bethany Bolt. Who the fuck is calling me today? Kim with no last name. Christina Cook. Scott Ozen. Owns Owns Urge. Owns Orge.

[James Petregallo]

What?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Christopher Lutz. Carlos Spicy Wiener.

[James Petregallo]

Ozone.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, of the. Those are owners, Joe. Owners Joe.

[James Petregallo]

Those guys. Yeah, we all know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Rob Bond, Aaron Squires, Chris Moore, Brad Loxley.

[James Petregallo]

What?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Isn't that. What's his name? Robin's last name? Oh, it's of.

[James Petregallo]

That's why.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Brent. Tyler Young. Brent Bivens. Message me Shield. Marcus. Angelina with no lie. Angela Angelia. I may have. I may have missed the end. Happy. Thank you. Jamie Muntz with no last. That is the last name. Emily Heidi the camo.

[James Petregallo]

This is a mess.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Zach Shakur. Don with no last name. Philip with no last name. Carrie joins. I think that's Jones. That's got to be a mistype. Kristen with no last name. Samantha with no last name. Carolyn Emerson. Charlotte Fishwick. LD Gus Messer. Ally with no last name. Chris with no last name. And obviously all our patrons. You guys are the best. Thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. You fantastic, wonderful bastards. We can't tell you how much we appreciate you. Get those tickets. Keep signing up for Patreon. Keep hanging out with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

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