The Art Of Murder - Talladega, Alabama

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast Summary

Episode: "The Art of Murder – Talladega, Alabama"

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Date: September 4, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, comedians James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman dig into the terrifying case of serial killer Daniel Siebert (alias “Daniel Spence”) who left a trail of death across several states, including a particularly chilling murder spree in Talladega, Alabama. Known for their blend of exhaustive research and dark humor, the hosts explore: the small-town context, the murders themselves, the psychology and background of the killer, police missteps, and bizarre aftermath including the sale of the killer’s prison artwork. The story involves the murder of multiple women and children in Talladega and unravels a nationwide manhunt for a man hiding in plain sight.

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Major Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Talladega, Alabama

[06:00 – 18:40]

• Town Profile: Famous for its NASCAR racetrack and the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind (AIDB), Talladega is painted as a place with a struggling economic profile, high property and violent crime rates, and a close-knit, if challenged, community.
• "Talladega Curse": Hosts joke about the speedway’s alleged supernatural curse (Bobby Isaac incident) and local quirks.
• Local Flavor: They riff on town festivals (like the Bluegrass and Fingerstyle Guitar Festival), real estate bargains, and quirks about religious demographics.

Quote:
"Talladega's where you go if you want the whole town to know sign language and you want a cheap house... but keep your doors locked during race weekend."
– James Pietragallo [10:31]

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2. Introduction of the Killer

[18:43 – 54:18]

• Donald Hendren’s Journey: Artist Hendren picks up hitchhiker "Daniel Spence" in Arizona, who appears talented and harmless, and offers him work at the AIDB in Talladega.
• “Daniel Spence” Arrives: Spence charms the community and quickly becomes involved with AIDB students, notably Sherry Weathers.
• Red Flags: Staff-student relationships at the institute were strictly forbidden; as things get romantic, Hendren distances himself.

Quote:
"If you’re picking up hitchhikers in the ‘80s, you’re already rolling those dice... but then to offer them a job at the deaf school, well, that’s just jackpot or disaster."
– Jimmie Whisman [22:04]

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3. The Murders

[54:19 – 1:09:43]

• Timeline:
  • Spence is last seen with Sherry Weathers, her neighbor Linda Jarman, and Linda Faye Odom (his other romantic interest).
  • Within the span of a few days, Sherry, her two young sons (Chad, 5, and Joey, 4), and Linda Jarman are found strangled and positioned in horrifying poses—Sherry and her sons in a cross formation.
  • Linda Odom goes missing; her body is discovered later in a cemetery.
• Chilling Details:
  • Kids are awoken and killed after witnessing their dead mother.
  • Spence/Seibert uses both the murdered women’s cars and the murdered children’s identities while fleeing across the country.

Quote:
"He woke the kids up. Coulda left ‘em asleep. Could have just left them alone. But no, had to look those kids in the eyes and... That’s monstrous."
– James Pietragallo [106:26]

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4. Police Investigation and National Manhunt

[1:09:44 – 1:38:39]

• Misidentification: Police initially think "Daniel Spence" is a legitimate person until fingerprints reveal his real identity as Daniel Siebert, a fugitive and previously convicted killer.
• Police Fumbles:
  • Siebert uses social security cards of his child victims to post bail and repeatedly evades capture due to police oversight.
  • He almost escapes detection several times due to poor cross-state communication.
• Multi-State Crime Atlas:
  • Siebert is found with an atlas marked with places he killed (circled "X"s) and robbed ("X"s).
• Final Capture:
  • After months on the run, Siebert is caught in Tennessee in spectacular fashion—on the toilet at a convenience store.

Quote:
"Clerk silently points to the restroom. Six officers burst in... He’s sitting on the stall and says, 'How’d y’all find me?' Well, that’s a long story, Danny; there’ll be a podcast in 40 years all about it."
– James Pietragallo [99:38]

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5. Psychological Profile & Background

[1:38:40 – 1:53:28]

• Childhood Abuse:
  • Siebert endured extreme sexual and physical abuse from his father, as well as severe neglect.
• Antisocial Behavior:
  • He developed early criminal tendencies, substance abuse (PCP), and ran away constantly.
• Manipulation and Sexual Shape-shifting:
  • The hosts detail how Siebert would manipulate his sexuality to his advantage, describing him as a “shapeshifter” with no real attachments to people of any gender.
• No Remorse:
  • Siebert displays a chilling lack of remorse or emotional connection, described by experts as ticking every box for psychopathy.

Quote:
"If you didn’t know what kind of monster he was, you could actually like him... That was his mask—he was a shapeshifter."
– Detective Jacks, as quoted by James [118:21]

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6. The Confessions and Legal Proceedings

[1:53:29 – 2:33:15]

• Open Confessions:
  • Siebert confesses in detail, matter-of-factly, to the murders of women and children, including chilling monologues about killing the Weathers children because “they wouldn’t amount to anything.”
• Multiple Trials:
  • He is convicted and sentenced to death twice in Alabama for the murders of Linda Jarman and the Weathers family, with additional guilty pleas and confessions in other states.
• Appeals:
  • Numerous appeals on technicalities, police procedures, and mental illness—all denied.
• Victims’ Families:
  • The relatives of the victims form a support group, attending each other’s trials and advocating for victims’ rights.

Quote:
"They didn’t have anything to say... and I don’t have anything to say."
– Daniel Siebert [1:09:06]

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7. Aftermath: Death, Artistic Infamy & Legacy

[2:33:16 – 2:51:53]

• Death:
  • After multiple execution stays (with the state battling appeals about execution protocols vs. Siebert’s failing health), Siebert dies in prison from pancreatic cancer before his scheduled execution.
• Prison Artwork:
  • While on death row, Siebert produces and sells disturbing, sexually explicit artwork via pen pals and websites, sparking outrage from victims’ advocates.
• Cultural Reflection:
  • The hosts reflect on the enabling aspects of small-town trust, the dangers of lacking proper background checks, and how predators exploit good intentions.

Quotes:
"Serial killers need love too—it’s him drinking ‘Killer Beer’ with a giant naked goddess behind him and a scythe. He’d be great at skateboard graphics."
– James Pietragallo, describing Siebert’s art [162:33]

"How do you get to profit and get attention from your drawings when you did this? "
– Victims’ advocate Esther Brown [153:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Setting the Scene / Talladega Town Profile | 06:00 – 18:40 | | Siebert's Arrival and Community Involvement | 18:43 – 54:18 | | The Murders and Discovery | 54:19 – 1:09:43 | | Police Investigation / Nationwide Manhunt | 1:09:44 – 1:38:39 | | Psychological Profile & Backstory | 1:38:40 – 1:53:28 | | Confession, Trials, and Appeals | 1:53:29 – 2:33:15 | | Aftermath, Execution & Art Commerce | 2:33:16 – 2:51:53 |

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Town’s Curse:
  "Not just a tight track, it’s a curse. There’s a whole circuit of fingering we didn’t know about."
  – James & Jimmie [15:31]

• On Siebert's Manipulation:
  "He knew how to mirror behavior. He studied people like you would study how to hunt animals."
  – Dr. Yardley (profiled by the hosts) [121:24]

• Reactions to Confession:
  "If there’s anything more heartless, more depraved than that remark, I’ve yet to hear it."
  – Criminologist reacting to “they didn’t have anything to say” [109:23]

• On Prison Art:
  "He’s selling commission pencil sketches of bondage and orgies, so we know the system works, folks!"
  – James Pietragallo [153:21]

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Tone and Style

• The hosts maintain their signature dark, irreverent, but empathetic comedic style—using levity to cope with heavy material.
• They are adamant about never making fun of the victims, only the killer, police blunders, and small-town oddities.

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Engagement & Utility for Non-Listeners

This episode is a deep-dive into one of the more horrifying and lesser-known serial killer cases in the American South. It seamlessly combines interpersonal drama, crime investigation, and macabre comedy, while providing historical, psychological, and critical context. The inclusion of victims’ perspectives, law enforcement challenges, and the disturbing economics of “murderabilia” (like Siebert’s art) gives the episode added depth. Listeners gain not only a case narrative but also a meditation on vulnerability, trauma, and the fallibility of small-town safety nets.

Recommended for true crime fans who appreciate context, critical humor, and a focus on both crime and community impact.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Back to school is better with Family Freedom from T Mobile we'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free ph all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone16128 gigabyte 8 $29.99 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile this week in Talladega, Alabama, the gruesome discovery of three murders in an apartment leads to finding even more bodies and a hunt for a serial killer as he goes on the run killing people along his path. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm Jimmy Whitman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. As usual, today is just this guy is a whack job. This is a crazy one. We will get into all of that. First of all, shut up and give me murder.com head there right now. Get your first of all your merchandise. Oh yeah, everything from skateboards to shower curtains you can get there. And then also get your tickets for live shows for the fall. There's most of them are sold out at this point. Seattle is where you want to go for your tickets here. Seattle in October. There's a few left in Philly but Seattle in October is what we're telling you to do now. That is shut up and give me murder.com then you definitely want to listen to our other shows, Crime in Sports and your stupid opinions which are hilarious. If you like this show, trust us, you will like those shows. Believe me. Do that and then get yourself Patreon as well please. Patreon.com CrimeInSports Just like the name of that show you should be listening to. That is where anybody $5 a month or above you get everything we have to offer hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all. Everybody, sir, this week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about athletes that made bad financial decisions and went bankrupt despite having tens of millions of dollars. Then for small town murder, that's always fascinating. Then for small town murder, we are going to talk about Ted Bundy, quote, helping to find the Green river killer for his own benefit. Part two. It's fascinating. Part one was, and that's why we're doing a part two. So it's really good. Patreon.com crimeinsports and also, in addition to all that, you also get all three shows, Crime and sports, you, Stupid opinions and Small Town murder all ad unbelievable with your Patreon subscription. And if that's not enough, Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show, attempting to give you a shout out. So you get it all. It's all we could possibly offer you for $5, I would say, so do that. Patreon.com crimeinsports disclaimer time. This is a comedy show, everybody. Now, yes, the murders are absolutely 100% real and every detail, in fact, is real. That's the thing. We, our goal is to do better research than Dateline or 2020 or, you know, these shows that do murder shows do better research than them and be funny. So that's what we're doing here. Now you might go, how does that go together? Murder and cop, they do go together. That's the thing. What you do is, what we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Why is that, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. See how that works there? That's how it goes. And it's pretty good otherwise. But yeah, there's plenty you can do here. We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that's worthy of being made fun of. Who cares? We make fun of a bumbling police force that lets a murderer go free. And we also make fun of murderers because why not? We can't do anything else about it but make fun of them. So when someone says, I think I can get away with this, we go, that's pretty ridiculous. We're making fun of you for that. So that said, if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together, maybe we're not for you, but I think you should give it a shot here. Really do. I think you're gonna like it. That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. Let's all clear the lungs. Here we go. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Right, we're going to Alabama this week. Here we go. We're going to Talladega, Alabama, which I know you've heard of because of the famous racetrack there. Everybody crashes. I'm not a NASCAR fan at all and I know that's the track everybody crashes at. It's famous for it. And there's a possible curse that we'll get into that causes all these.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Crash has a great song about it. God damn.

[James Petregallo]

It's not just a tight track, it's a curse. You know, obviously it's gotta be a curse. So Talladega, Alabama is like kind of central Alabama. Off to the east a little bit in that area. About an hour to Birmingham, about two hours to Atlanta, in the other direction if you go east and about an hour and 10 minutes to Clanton, Alabama, which was our last Alabama episode. Episode 586. Self explanatory title. Never trust your cousin. That's a. Never trust your cousin.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Good advice.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. It says Talladega county, this is in area code 256. And the motto, unsurprisingly is city of speed. If you don't know what we're talking about or if you're from another country or something like that. The Talladega has a very famous racetrack here that NASCAR does. It's on their tour every year. Right. It's one of their races. Yeah. So every year. And it's famous for crashes. And a little bit of history of this town will kind of introduce you to that. Here they opened Talladega Speedway in 1969. Now also what's here, another big thing that's here, not only the speedway, but also the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind, which is a very big. Apparently in the deaf and blind world it's a very big deal. I'm not well, listen, I've never looked for a blind school.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So if there's ever a place that is a great place for deaf people, it's Talladega.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I didn't hear shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They're not annoyed at all.

[James Petregallo]

No. So this was established in 1858 and nationally it's one of the very famous schools for the deaf. Really. Now the Talladega Speedway curse. There's a legend that says that the Talladega Superspeedway was originally built on a former Creek Nation territory. And it's cursed. The natives have put a curse on them. It's said to be the site of a sacred burial ground and a Creek chief allegedly placed a curse on it after being forced out by the government to build the track. The Talladega jinx is often blamed for all the weird events that have happened. A few here. One of the Bobby Isaac incident. In 1973, a NASCAR driver named Bobby Isaac abruptly pulled his car off the track during a race and quit saying he heard a voice telling him to leave. Go. Get out of the house. It's like a poltergeist car. Got a poltergeist car. Returned to the track that day. Took off. Reviews of this town here, five stars. I've lived here almost my whole life and I've gone to school here from birth to present. Wow. Put them right in school at birth. There you go. Learn something. Welcome. Talladega is a good place. Rakes weekend is awful to be a resident when you have everyone from the track coming through to buy beer, but other than that, it's decent. Well, yeah, that's probably a big boon to all the convenience stores around there. They love that shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That probably pays your sales tax for the year.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. Not much to do for kids and teens, but it's slowly getting better. Okay, other people disagree. Here, three stars. It's a pretty little place, but nothing really to do. I'm always hearing about crimes that took place. However, there are good people in Talladega and they're working to improve the situation.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

They're good people working to improve it. Okay, one star. Growing up in Talladega, I enjoyed school and the little places attended for children after school. However, I noticed the decline of children graduating and those buildings that were for them to be social have been torn down. What, the mall? Yeah. Where is. Where are kids supposed to be social? The crime rate is terrible. We'll be the judge of that, sir. Every newsletter is another murder tragedy. Newsletter? They don't have a newspaper. They have a newsletter.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They got a newsletter. They got a pamphlet.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, I've never heard of that before. Did you get the pamphlet? They drop it off yet? This city needs better funding for the schools. Something needs to be done to ensure the safety of the people.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I agree.

[James Petregallo]

We will find out. People in this town. How many people do we need to be safe? 15,782. Which is a good amount. It's a decent amount. 51.2% women, 48.8% men, which is a little above the national average as far as the difference goes, but not too far. Median age is about a year older than the national average. It's 39 and a half. The situation here, usually married is 50, 50 here it's 33%. Wow, so it's a lot lower marriage rate. Yeah, about the same divorce rate though, which is if there's less people married in the same percentage of people divorcing, that means that those marriages aren't ending well. Race in this town, 45.8% white, 48.1% black, 1.1% Asian, 4% Hispanic. 53.4% of the people here are religious. And no surprise, the winner, the number one with a bullet here is going to be Baptist at 33.2. As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South. By the way, I've gotten multiple messages asking why we say that. It's just noticing numbers, that's all it is. And if you go to like Massachusetts it'll be 48% Catholic and if you go down south it'll be 48% Baptist. That's all.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's why it sounded like the sentence was pretty self explanatory.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I thought, but sometimes you gotta explain. I said, yeah, maybe we haven't explained that in a few years. Don't know. I'm like, okay, let me explain it. Then people got mad at me for it. They're like, how dare you? I'm like, what are you talking. I'm just pointing out the existence of people. How can you get mad at that? The things people get mad at me for on this show is wild. It's remarkable. Low unemployment here, it's about half the national average, so very low. Median household income is below half the national average, though. That's not great. Median it is 31,795 a year. It's normally 69,000 and change in the rest of the country.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And they make that on one weekend.

[James Petregallo]

That's just from selling parking spots in your yard for race day. The cost of living here, 100 is regular. Average here it's 76. And housing is the real low one. The median home cost here is $134,600. So you'd need it to be that low though, based on the income. So if we've convinced you the only place that you will be happy is Talladega, Alabama, we have for you the Talladega, Alabama Real estate REPORT okay, here we go. Your first house up on the block is a three bedroom, three bath T ball for all your B holes. 15, 49 or 46 square foot house. It's built in 1960. It's on about three quarters of an acre. I'm going to show you a picture of it. It looks like it could use some help.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I can't believe there's three. Three under that roof.

[James Petregallo]

It's amazing. I don't know how far back it goes though. That's only the front. So it could go because there's 1500 square feet, but it looks like it's falling apart. The front steps going up the front porch are like crooked. That's just a bad sign. And the price of it, you know it's falling apart. 39,900 bucks for that. Three quarters of an acre. Three quarters of an acre and a 1500 square foot house. Wow. Next up is a three bedroom, two bath, 960 square foot house. I'll show it to you. It's a cute little brick house though. See, it's nice.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It looks the same size as the other one. That's right.

[James Petregallo]

It does well, because we don't have deeper couches. It looks like a little outdoor screened in porch. It's only 960 square feet. It's got a metal roof, so have fun during rainstorms. It's on half an acre though too. And it's 124,900 bucks.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Not bad.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's kind of the average house because what is it? 134 is the median home cost. Pretty close. That's small. And then here we go. You know what, let's just do this. 22 bedroom, eight bathroom.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

11,632 square foot on a three.

[Jimmy Whitman]

11,000.

[James Petregallo]

11,632 square foot on A 3.4-acre lot. It's built in 1936 and it used to be a nursing home. So there we go. You know how many people died in here? You want to live there?

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's probably Richard Petty's house.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's huge with pillars. It was a nursing home. It was a nursing home and now it can be ours.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It looks like one of those rich dipshit schools.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of gonna say it looks like a private school. Looks like a private school. But it's, it is huge. 450 grand for that?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Are you kidding me?

[James Petregallo]

I mean, I'm sure it needs some work. And like we said, hundreds of old people have died there. But still 450 grand. I'm sure I don't know how it wouldn't. Things to do here. Okay. The Talladega Bluegrass and fingerstyle Guitar Festival. Yeah, I made the same face when I fucking read it. It's like fingerstyle. Like I have to go with the two fingers. See, you won't get all up in there now. You gotta go with the one finger and make sure you hook it back. You know what I'm saying? There's people just arguing over finger stylings. This is how I do it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Dancing on welcome to the Talladega bluegrass and fingerstyle Guitar festival. The dynamic Talladega bluegrass and finger style guitar festival team has pulled together the very best talent, venue and special events required for an enjoyable music festival experience. The lineup is first class with three full days of some of the hottest names on today's bluegrass music and finger style guitar circuit. Taking this day. I didn't know there was a finger style guitar circuit circuit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

A whole finger circuit.

[James Petregallo]

There's a whole circuit of fingering that we had no idea about. Oh and did we mention campground jamming? No music music nonstop all weekend long. Is that a threat? Sounds like a threat. You'll be trying to sleep. I'll be playing bluegrass music right over your tent. Like hey, calm down.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sleep will finger you.

[James Petregallo]

Well that's when the finger styling starts. Once it's sleeping, tune up your fiddle, bring along your banjo, get out the guitar, bust out the bass and make tracks with that mandolin. To the Talladega bluegrass and fingerstyle Guitar festival. Pick a soon to pick a tune, sing a song, catch up with old friends and make some new ones along the way. So they're encouraging amateur guitarism as well. Some of the people here Shannon Slaughter.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he'll be there with and County Clare. Not country Claire. County Claire out from the county. Fast track which is a bunch of 70 year old men wearing suits. Slow track, slower track. Carolyn Owens and new company. She just got rid of all of her old company and she got rid of bad company. Now she's got new company. New company, new company. Russell Moore and Russell Moore III. And time out. Edgar Loudermilk band Bent Creek.

[Jimmy Whitman]

This isn't good.

[James Petregallo]

Okay and backline that's will be there but they backline. There's a guy with an enormous stand up base so that's got potential opportunity to be good. If I see a stand up base I'll give it a minute. You know what I mean? But the way to get tickets is you send an order form and a Check or money order to Edgar Loudermilk of the Edgar Loudermilk Band. Not even online. And there's a thing that you like, print out and cut off and fill in number of tickets. It's like from the fucking 80s.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's gotta go to the bank. You get a cashier's check.

[James Petregallo]

It's so weird. And if that's not enough action for you, there's the Kymolga grist mill and covered bridge.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, thank God.

[James Petregallo]

Thank shit for that. They said it dates back to 1864. And despite surviving the Civil War without damage, the mill changed hands four times before being acquired by the Chidelsburg Heritage Committee. One of the most interesting things about the grist mill, I'd love to hear what's interesting about it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

One of the most.

[James Petregallo]

One of the most is that it still uses its original large millstones to produce cornmeal to this day.

[Jimmy Whitman]

However it operates.

[James Petregallo]

That's interesting. However, it operates on electricity instead of traditional water power because it's on a creek. And that's how it worked. Okay, crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here, property crime. That person was not lying. Twice the national average. Property crime.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if that's all during race weekend or what. That's the problem. When you put in tens of thousands of drunken NASCAR fans for an event where people are always crashing, that could really send a small town's crime rate through the roof. You know what I mean? Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is almost double the national average.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Jesus Christ. Talladega. Scary.

[James Petregallo]

That's some scary shit for a small town of 15,000 here. That said, let's talk about some real scary shit with a murder. Let's do this with lots of murder. I should say. Not just a murder. Let's start out in December of 1985. Let's do that. Let's meet a young man here, Donald Hendren. H E N D R either o N or en, depending on the source. But court documents have o n, so I'm going with o N. We'll go there now. He had been living in Studio City in California. In la. Yeah, he's living in la and he decides that he is going to move across the country in December of 85, traveling, leaving from Hollywood, and he's going to end up in Talladega, Alabama, where he's going to serve as an artist in residence at the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind. They make murals, they do sets for their, you know, Play plays and things and productions they do and stuff like that. And music stuff. They have all sorts of, like, art programs for the people. So he leaves Los Angeles, driving east. His plan was to first go to North Carolina to visit his family, then head down to Talladega to operate their theater program and help down there. That's what he was going to do. So on December 30th of 1985, the day before New Year's Eve, while passing through Tucson, I guess he's going to take the 10 across as his plan. He picks up a hitchhiker. Oh, which in Tucson, which by the 80s, picking up hitchhikers was sketchy, sketchy business.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, that's not good.

[James Petregallo]

That's 70s. That would have been. People used to just pick up hitchhikers for some company and maybe they can take a shift driving.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Literally just for conversation.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I think there's an old story about the baseball pitcher Bob Gibson fucking going to spring training, and he was falling asleep driving his fucking giant Lincoln or some shit. And he was falling asleep and he saw some guy on the road. He said he looked like he slept in a ditch. So he picked the guy up and he said he needed some company to stay awake. So he was talking to him, and then at one point he's like, I'll get some sleep, you drive. And they switched. And he said this guy was just caked in dirt and mud. He was all, you know, just looked like he slept outside for days. The guy gets in there and he said, he's driving it for a little while. He was having some trouble with the cruise control. And Bob Gibson woke up and looked over and said, what the hell's going on? He goes, I wouldn't drive a piece of shit like this. He was on the road an hour ago, sleeping in a ditch. Yeah, that was a fun story. So anyway, that's what he's doing. He finds a young man to pick up, and the guy's name is Daniel Spence. He gets in the car, says, hi, I'm Daniel Spencer. Daniel Spence at this point is, you know, he's born in 1954, so he's 31 at this point.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sure, sure.

[James Petregallo]

And, you know, looking to get across the country. So the Hendrin, the guy, the driver, he notices that Daniel Spence has an artist's case with him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's like, wait, you're an artist? I'm an artist. I'm going, literally going across the country for an art job.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I do. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they spent the next two states discussing art and views on art and what they're. If you find somebody that you share that kind of common interest with, you can talk for two days about it. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whitman]

The next two states, James, that's New Mexico and Texas.

[James Petregallo]

That's like four days worth of states. Yeah, it's a lot. So Hendren was impressed with Daniel's talent, and he said, dude, you should come with me to Talladega to work for this program. He said, you're just drifting at this point. You should. You know, you could be a set designer. He goes, when you first get in, like he said, I'm running the program, so I get a paycheck. But when you. I can get you in as a volunteer where you don't really get paid, but you get room and board.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So I mean. I mean, if you're drifting and standing in Tucson with your thumb out, that's a pretty good offer, especially for artwork. It's not like you have to go dig ditches. So, yeah, so there they go. They keep on driving. And Daniel said, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. What a fucking fortuitous. Not only did I get a ride across the country, but I got a goddamn job out of this, too. This is awesome.

[Jimmy Whitman]

At the destination.

[James Petregallo]

At the destination. Yeah. And an art job, too, not just like some job I don't want. So Daniel said, yeah, but I have to go visit my mother in Illinois before I go to Talladega. So just north of Jackson, Mississippi, they part company. Hendren goes on to North Carolina and then to Talladega, whereas Daniel hitchhikes up north to Illinois to go see his parents or his mom. He said, so that's how they do it. Now, Hendren ended up arriving in Talladega on January 9, 1986. And when he got there, he is contacted by Daniel Spencer. He contacts him through the Institute, says, I'm trying to get a hold of this guy so they get back with each other. And he says, it's still okay if I come down there and get this job? And Hendren said, yeah, come on. Down he goes, you can even stay with me in my apartment so you can be my roommate. Perfect. So this is Danny Ray Spence. He says, no problem. Let's do it. So he gets down there. He's going to help design stage sets at the institute. So he gets a job down there. And by the way, this Deaf and blind institute is a big deal down there. It's huge. It's founded in 1858, so it's at the core of everything that's been there. They employ hundreds of people at this point. And basically it's mainly deaf at this point. There's blind people, too. But it's mainly. It's become a big thing for the deaf. And, you know, everybody. If you're deaf, you can be very comfortable in Talladega because everybody speaks sign language kind of there. A lot of the people do, right? Because a lot of the people work at the Institute. So one of the kind of upper muckety mucks of the town here said aidb is a big part of the Talladega community. It's actually a community of its own and a family of its own. So Danny arrives on January 20, 1986, and within days, he's ingratiated himself to everybody at the Institute. They all like him. He's a charmer. He is a very good artist. They're all impressed with his work and they're happy to have him there. Basically, he volunteers to paint a mural. He helps with set designs. He's polite and a good conversationalist and a real find. Everyone's like, jesus, good job picking this guy up off the road. This guy's a fucking great guy to have here. So they find an apartment. This is Hendren and Danny Spence. They first share an apartment kind of, right? It's like on the campus of the Institute, like when they first get there. And then after a little bit, couple of weeks, maybe, they move into another apartment in the Porter Building after that. Now that'll come up again. He. Danny Spence tells Hendren that, you know, I kind of like it here. I like the job. I like the environment. I'm kind of maybe thinking about settling down here. I've been.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm just gonna say, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Cause they've been talking about. He's been bouncing around all different places. He's an artist, and artists are looking for a place to ply their trade and stuff like that. So he goes, if I can do my art and actually have a decent life here, maybe I'll settle in here. You know what I mean? Now, shortly after they move into the Porter Building, Danny starts getting in with the ladies. Okay, there's a couple different ladies. Number one, and the one he calls his girlfriend is Sherry Weathers. And that's W E H or W E A, like the weather, not with an H. She's 24 years old, Sherry Weathers. She had been. Just is getting done being a student at the Institute and is going to be a teacher.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what she's been doing. She's a single mother, she's deaf. And that's one thing you're going to find a deaf chick if you're coming here. I mean, that's. Oh, you bet that's what you're going to get probably if you're going to work at the institute. Know these people. Now, Sherry, a little bit about her. She said that Sherry lived in Midland City in southern Alabama for about a year and a half before she moved to Talladega. And, you know, she's lived here since then. And she's also was divorced and living alone with her two children. So she's a divorced single mom, has two small children that are five and four at this point. So they said that Sherry had told her friends when she got here that she'd been beaten by her ex husband. Oh, that's nice. Beat up a deaf lady. That's excellent. And she also said that she had rough experiences in her childhood with her parents too. Just a. She's had a rough go of it basically. And on top of everything else, she can't hear shit. So that doesn't help any.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Not easy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. One of her friends said she'd been having a hard time all her life. We told her to be careful. We gave her warnings of, you know, be careful of people. You know, you have a tendency to date people who aren't great for you. But she said, no, Danny's a great guy. He treats me wonderful. So she thinks she's found gold here. She's living in the Sunrise Apartments with her sons, Chad, who's five years old, and Joey, who's four years old. She lives in apartment 30 of the Sunrise Apartments. Now. Problem is, relationships between any staff and students are strictly prohibited at the deaf school. Not cool. Okay. Not okay. So Hendren, the guy who gave him a ride and got him a job, he wants to separate himself from the situation. He does not want to be lumped in with like being told that he helped facilitate this or something. So he moves out of their apartment on February 16, 1986. He said he, he said he told Danny, look, man, this is going to mess you up at the Institute. And I don't want to get myself messed up. I like this job and I like this place and I'm going to stay. So that's what happened. So on February 16, 1986, he, Hendren, moves out and Danny Spence is in the apartment by himself. Now another person who knows Sherry talks about saying that she used to be her roommate and said that they talked about Spence quite a bit. They're friends still. They were roommates when she first moved to town. And this person said, she told me he was real nice. She said he was real good to her, quote, unquote. So that's all you can ask for, nice and good to her. Now, February 19, 1986. This is three days after Hendren moved out of the apartment with Danny. Now, they see each other this day. Hendren arranges to pick Danny up about 8am the next morning to go to a faculty meeting. Danny doesn't have a car, obviously hitchhiked here. So they're planning the morning of 8am on the 20th of February that Danny's gonna be outside his apartment, ready to go. Now, this day, February 19th, we'll talk about Linda Faye Odom. And her last name is Odum. Sometimes O D O m, but most commonly O D u M. She's 32 years old. She is a cocktail waitress and a mother of two. She lives in Talladega. And, you know, she know kind of she knows Danny from being around and briefly dated him here a little bit too. Yes. Unbeknownst to Sherry. So he was kind of dating a little bit of this one, a little bit of that one. It's very interesting. And when we talk about his background and what he's about, it's even odder. So they dated briefly and now she has another boyfriend. Now, I don't know if she was cheating on this boyfriend with Danny or what. We have no idea. This. This guy's name is Steven Laney. And on the 19th, Stephen Laney and Linda Odom and Danny Spencer having lunch together.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah. Now Steven here, Laney, that's Linda's boyfriend, he goes off to get his car, leaves to get his car. At one point, I guess he had left his car somewhere and he went to go get it and he said, I'll be back when he returns. He can't find Linda.

[Jimmy Whitman]

She's gone.

[James Petregallo]

She's gone. She can't find. Not in her apartment, nowhere to be found, can't find her. So he goes and knocks on Danny's door because he says, you're the last person. Have you seen Linda? Is she here with you? Where is she? And Danny says, fuck, I haven't seen her. We left and broke apart soon after you took off. He goes, I'll sure help you look for her if you want, though. So they go out and they look around. They can't find Linda. So, yeah. So Steven's like, what the fuck, man? She Just ditched me. That's pretty lame. Don't know. So, yeah, they don't know that was it. He just gives up. He's like, well, I guess that's that. So after they look for her, Danny asks this Steven if he could have a ride to his girlfriend's house, Sherri Weathers. So Stephen drops him off there. This is February 19, 1986, at about 8pm so it's a long day for Danny here that night. He is seen at 8pm with Sherry Weathers and her neighbor, Linda Jarman. J A R M A N Jar Man. They're buying beer at a convenience store in Talladega and they're discussing a card game that they're gonna play. They bought beer to go home and play cards and drink beer, which is fun. Who doesn't like to drink and play cards?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Any game at home, really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So people. Yeah, especially if you're drinking. It's fun no matter what. So there's people around that see them, all three of them laughing together and having a good time. And I don't know if he learned sign language real quick or what, but he's communicating with a deaf woman.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, sometimes they read lips real well.

[James Petregallo]

That's true. And they're both deaf. Sherry and Linda are deaf, so he's with two deaf ladies. Linda is. Jarman is 33 years old. She's had it tough, too. She's the youngest of seven children and deaf lived in the area her whole life. She was a student at the AIDB where she completed a program for job preparation. So she's still in the area hanging out. And she's a neighbor of Sherry's and a good friend of hers and babysits Sherry's two kids often. Now. She had just come from working about a year in Birmingham City hall as a copy machine operator before she came back to Talladega and completed this program that trained people. Her mom said she liked Talladega because she could communicate with people better. A lot of people here know the sign language.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's very impressive.

[James Petregallo]

The more people that know it, the easier it's going to be to live there. Dude, being deaf would be horrible. To not be able to communicate would be not nearly as bad as blind.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Don't get me wrong, I can't imagine driving with it. And my cousin does it all the time. It is mind blowing.

[James Petregallo]

People always say, would you rather be deaf or blind? I don't think there's much of a contest there. Deaf sucks, but I'll take it any day over Blind, at least deaf people know when they're done wiping their ass. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's a fact. I'm sorry, I mean there's a lot of, there's a lot of questions. Blind is tough people that I have and I. Oh, I can't.

[James Petregallo]

Incredible.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I can't imagine, I can't imagine how they do it.

[James Petregallo]

People that can go about their business blind are absolutely.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I don't know, I don't get it.

[James Petregallo]

I mean deaf people too, but blind is. You can't see. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, that's worse than the Rubik's Cube. I don't know how you're doing it every day.

[James Petregallo]

Now Linda also has a five year old child who lives with her parents. At this point while she's doing all this stuff, she lives. She's a neighbor of Sherry's in the Sunrise apartment complex and she's single and described as real independent despite being deaf. And that's kind of part of the program too, is to make these deaf people as independent as possible. That's what's going on. Yeah, the two women are really close. They're often seen hanging out together, Sherry and Linda. And like we said, Linda would babysit Sherry's kids all the time and even drive her places because Linda has a car, a big cream colored 73 Buick that she's driving around boat. She is driving a boat. And she would drive, give her rides, give Sherry rides places.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Death driving that, huh?

[James Petregallo]

Big old. Here I come motherfuckers. Out the way. I'm coming.

[Jimmy Whitman]

She can't even hear the people honking when she's too close.

[James Petregallo]

Horns blaring, kids screaming, jumping out of the way. She's just dogs barking. She's cruising along, doesn't give a shit. So that night, that's Linda and then there's Sherry and then there's Danny and they're all leaving the convenience store together. Now Billy Kyle is another resident of the Sunrise Apartments. He saw about, he said he thought it was sometime after 8pm Now Billy is described in court documents as quote, mildly retarded and deaf. Okay, so that's. Yeah, I don't know what happened here, but he said sometime after 8 he saw Sherry and Danny in her apartment fighting. Oh, I don't know what kind of argument they could have because I don't think he speaks sign language and she doesn't speak very well. I don't know what kind of charades argument those two went through that night. But somebody broke out some Pictionary. This is what you did. With an arrow pointing to it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sometimes legally deaf is different from all the way deaf too.

[James Petregallo]

No, she doesn't hear shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

She doesn't hear at all. So there's no way she talks.

[James Petregallo]

These people aren't legally deaf. They're deaf from birth. They're like. Or deaf from. Yeah, yeah, they're deaf. Deaf. Super deaf. Yeah. They're not just like, I went to too many Motorhead concerts like here, ringing in my ear.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, some people just get sick and then. And there's fever spikes and they just go deaf. But they don't go all the way deaf because there's a little bit of hearing there. But yeah, it's. I can't imagine being all the way.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they. This Billy says that it was the time he arrived home, is where he saw this. And it was sometime after 8pm which lines up with the fact that they were leaving the convenience store at 8pm Fetus porter. F E T T U S. That's the man's first name. Fetus.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You sure it's not fetus?

[James Petregallo]

I think that's what the second T is for. To keep it from being fetus.

[Jimmy Whitman]

To keep it from being fetus.

[James Petregallo]

That's why I was like, it's definitely fetus here. It looks like fetus. Fetus looks like fetus. Fetus Porter, who's a neighbor of Sherry's, he got home at about 9:30pm that night and found a note from Sherry on his door saying, hey, come over and play cards with me. Danny and Linda. Yeah, we need a fourth for cards. Can't play fucking teams with three people. So he said, shit, yeah, why not? I'm not doing anything. He heads over to Sherry's apartment about 10:30pm where when the door opens, he finds Sherry and Linda chatting, having a chit chat, signing back and forth and doing everything. They said, I thought you had a third here. I thought we needed four people. Where's Danny? And they said, oh, well, Danny just left. He took Linda's car, the cream colored 73 Buick, to get some more beer. Apparently they did. They were thirstier than they looked, than they thought. And they said, we're all going to play cards when he gets back with the beer, the four of us. So we'll do that now. Porter Fetis, he remains at the apartment till about midnight and Danny never comes back. Never shows up, never comes back. So he says, fuck it, I'm going back home. I was going to play cards till about now and I'm not going to start playing at midnight. So I'm out of here. So that's fine. So, yeah, that's. He leaves, and that's how that goes. Now, the next morning, February 20, Hendren arrives to pick Danny up for the faculty meeting. When he gets there, Danny's not there. Can't find him. Knocks on his door, doesn't answer. Looks in the windows, can't see him. He's not there. He's like, okay, I guess he's not coming to the faculty meeting. He drives away now. Sunday, February 23, 1986. So now, three days later, here, no one has seen Sherry or her children around the apartments in a couple of days.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Or her kids.

[James Petregallo]

Nobody. Yeah, Billy, the man who saw them fighting when he came home there, he said that, you know, he remembered seeing the fight between Sherry and Danny in the apartment. So he said, well, I haven't seen her in a couple days. I saw her fight, and I better go check on her. So Billy goes to check on Sherry, knocks on the door and knocks on the windows, and nobody answers. So he's pretty concerned about this. So he climbs into Sherry's apartment through an unsecured window. This is his story. Climbs through an unsecured window. But he could see into the bed. He could see a part of Sherry's, you know, body, arm, leg, something sticking out of a sheet.

[Jimmy Whitman]

In the bed.

[James Petregallo]

In the bed. So he's like, oh, shit. He said, I saw that, and immediately climbed back out the window. I got scared, like, oh, fuck. I just broke into this woman's apartment while she's sleeping. Holy shit. This isn't good. I better leave.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Why would he knock? What a dumb thing to do.

[James Petregallo]

To knock to see if she's home.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. For a deaf woman's house.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think they have a doorbell where the lights ring, the lights go off. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There's no knocking, obviously. Yeah. That's just. It was more of a euphemism of trying to get her attention from outside, you know? Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I don't know how. Yeah, she'd have to have something.

[James Petregallo]

All the deaf people have those doorbells where the lights.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's a light.

[James Petregallo]

They have it, like, connected to their, like, lamps or something where bell rings, the lights flick, the lights flicker. So they know.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they. Whatever. They'll. They'll do something.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They do an action.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, an action. Or some people have a. I've seen, like, a.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Like a red light.

[James Petregallo]

Like a bulb up by the door that'll come on. Like an On Air sign, kind of. I guess. Yeah. You could say that.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, so he, the next day he tells Wanda Hunley, who's an institute social worker, that he was concerned about Sherry and said, will you, will you check on Sherry? Didn't say that he climbed in her window or any of that shit, right?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So she makes several phone calls, this person, and learns that no one's seen Sherry or her children in a few days.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So she also learned from one of the neighbors that there is an odor emanating from apartment 30 as well.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh no.

[James Petregallo]

So they're like, huh, I don't think she's cooking curry in there or something. So this is bad. So this woman from the institute, accompanied by several other people from the Institute, all decide to go down to the apartments to look for her, right? So they go in, they get a pass key from the manager for apartment 30. They explain what's going on. They also call a cop to go in there with them just in case. Officer Tom Bayman is first on the scene. He opens the door, takes one look, backs out the door, closes, locks it and calls for detectives on his radio. Like it took him. They were like standing back. He opened the door, took half a step in and then closed it and locked it again. Well, nevermind. Well, a little of both as we'll find out. Detective Eugene Jacks arrives here with an investigator from the DA's office as well. And Jack's years decades later said, quote, right in the center of the living room in the kitchen, you see three bodies.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Three.

[James Petregallo]

It's quite horrible. I haven't forgotten it after all these years. So upon entering, they find Sherry, Chad and Joey all dead and posed in the shape of a cross.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh wow.

[James Petregallo]

The kids meet being the arms.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And with a sheet over them. Horrible, horrifying. And posed, which is even scarier. This is not a random positioning. This is clearly opposing. So they're like, this is bad. This is real bad. They once they fingerprint everything, they go, hey, Billy, we found your fingerprints on a fucking window. Like, like you climbed in the window. And then he had to explain all of this shit. So at first they thought Billy absolutely did this because they found his fucking fingerprints climbing in a window. That's exactly what you're looking for, someone breaking in and doing this.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And he's the one telling people to check on her.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, but he's a real like meek little guy and they were just like, I don't see it out of him. I just don't see it out of him. Everybody kept saying, I don't See it out of him. And he apparently. I don't know if he passed a polygraph or whatever, but they believed him, that he just went into check on her. So the autopsies show that all three. Sherry and her sons, Chad and Joey, all died as a result of ligature strangulation.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

That's a rough way to go, man. So a huge investigation. I mean, you killed a sweet deaf lady, you know, with a lot of friends and two little kids. Yeah. This is, like, massive. Yeah, they want this shit solved yesterday. This is big. Real big. So during the investigation, they lift shoe prints from apartment 30. So they have some foreign shoe prints, and that's one of the reasons why they believed Billy was. Because his shoes didn't match the shoe prints in there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's good.

[James Petregallo]

So they were like, okay. So now they're really canvassing everywhere, talking to everybody, and they find out that there is a neighbor, Katherine Elaine Shelbourn, who lives next door to Sherry in apartment 31. Shares a common wall with her and is not deaf. Oh, she's also not deaf. There's also elderly people live in this complex.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And also not deaf.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Either elderly or deaf, pretty much. So she heard through the wall, she said, On February 19, the night all this started, she said she heard a man. By the way, how thin are these walls? That she heard every fucking word of this.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. And knew the gender.

[James Petregallo]

She heard a man's voice saying, quote, come to me. You can join your mother.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

And then a minute later, she heard him say, come on, and you will be with your mother and brother.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

So that's what she heard through the wall. But that doesn't sound frightening. That sounds like, oh, come with me, and I'll take you to your mother. Your mom's in here with no context. Yeah, when you. And I'm all dead in there, it's much worse and much weirder. So now, while they're processing this murder scene, they discover that Linda Jarman hasn't shown up for her classes either. Oh, it's been days. And she hasn't been showing up either. So they go, okay, well, we better check on this Linda Jarman. She lives in one of the apartments close by. So they head to her apartment, and they knock and knock or ring the doorbell or whatever the fuck they do to get her attention. She doesn't answer. They get a pass key, they go in, they find her strangled to death in her bed.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Strangled to death in her fucking bed. Ligature around the neck. Same thing.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Same Thing, Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Her VCR is missing and her cream colored 73 Buick is gone. In 1986, by the way. People are going, VCR, first of all, if you're young, that means video cassette recorder. It's these big tapes that we used to have and you put them in and watch movies and tape shit off tv. Yeah. And now an eight track is also a tape that we can go back forever, which is just a square record. Now a record is this round thing that's real big and made of vinyl that you put on, go back to phonographs were cartridges.

[Jimmy Whitman]

A cartridge, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So back then a VCR cost a lot of money. You could sell a VCR for 300 bucks on the street. Like back then it was expensive. So VCR being missing is a big deal. That's a robbery thing. And her car's gone, obviously. Now while all this is going on, they're contacting everyone that might have talked to any of these people. And Steven Laney comes forward. Remember Steven Laney, Linda Odom's boyfriend? He says, I haven't seen Linda Odom in a long since then either. The last time I saw her was at lunch. I went to get my car, came back, she's gone. Me and Danny looked for, never found her. I dropped Danny off. So what the fuck is that? So they don't know. They're like, shit, we, I don't know, I guess we'll look into that too. So now they have two missing or one missing woman and two dead women and two dead kids.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's a lot.

[James Petregallo]

That's a long weekend, man.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, for Talladega. That's a small place.

[James Petregallo]

This is 15,000 people. This is, this is a, you know, three years worth of death, three years worth of murder probably. I mean, what do they have one or two murders a year in this county? Probably. I mean, this is crazy. So the police said here, the spokesman said that no arrests have been made, but there are several people we're checking out. He said there are four or five people under investigation by authorities. Now, one of them at the time was Billy Kyle, the guy who climbed in the window. He was cleared, but they said they are searching for, for a man to talk to who was believed to be Sherry Weathers boyfriend, and he hasn't been seen either, and that's Danny Spence. So the Steven Laney who hasn't seen Linda Odom since February 19 at lunch, says, I did see, I did see Danny Spence though. He said, I saw him late February 19th or early February 20th, like late at Night or morning? He said that. He said that, wow, he had dropped him off and that I guess he had went home, Danny had gone home. And he saw Danny loading several large trash bags into a car outside his apartment building late night on the 20th. And he said that, you know, he didn't know what was going on. So Steven said. I asked him, how did he get back? And he said he used his girlfriend's car, but he used Linda Jarman's car. He said that Danny told him he had a fight with Sherry and that he was about to return some of her belongings to her. And that was all the garbage bags that he was putting in. It was her stuff that was at his place. They'd been together for like. They'd been together for, like, three weeks. I don't know how much stuff could she have over there? So anyway, the neighbors are freaked the fuck out, by the way, about this.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, all of them. Everyone in the area is freaked out. They said that the, you know, number one, they liked these people. They're already being missed. And one person here, a neighbor said, quote, it really hurt me to the heart because me and her were real close talking about Linda Jarman. She said she used to come over all the time and we'd share cigarettes together. Just come over and smoke. Come on by and smoke for a while. Okay. Normally, smoking isn't an activity that you get together to do.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm going to come over and smoke. How's that sound?

[James Petregallo]

I'm going to come over and smoke. Unless you're 14, then you'd be like, you want to go meet and smoke? That'd be the only time we'll meet by that tree and we'll go smoke.

[Jimmy Whitman]

But how many can you smoke?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. So that's hilarious. So this woman who's legally blind said she last talked. How the hell does a blind person and a deaf person talk to each other? I mean, you can't see. That's exactly what I'm saying.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It makes an amazing See no evil, hear no evil.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, get Gene Wilder in there and you got some Richard Pryor.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What are you, deaf? Yeah, motherfucker.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So these two, their conversation, I would pay to watch, first of all, as I would pay to watch that movie. So she said that she talked with Linda on Thursday. She said when I went over, she didn't discuss any problems she was having or say anything was wrong. She said she was going to see her parents and her son this past weekend. I don't know if she ever Saw them see, that's why a lot of people didn't look for Linda over the weekend, is because she said she was going to her parents that weekend to see her son. So they expected her to be gone. Then when she bought herself three days.

[Jimmy Whitman]

In death without being found.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And when she wasn't showing up for class, that's when they were like, okay, she should be back. She said, I'm going to miss Linda a lot. I miss her company already. And her roommate said he also, he's also blind, this guy, Anthony Handrick. He said he occasionally talked to Sherry, who is also into art. She also draws and she's also an artist. And he said he spoke with her briefly Thursday, which was the 19th, before she disappeared, before she was murdered. And he said she said she was fixing to draw. Not like on you. She was gonna make pictures. She's gonna draw pictures. Otherwise someone says they're fixing to draw, that means you better look for cover or draw yourself because you're in deep shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You better watch that clock. Oh, shit, it clicks before it strikes.

[James Petregallo]

He said, and that was the last time I saw her. So the police think they have an idea of what's going on. They put a thing out in the paper saying two people are being sought in connection with the quadruple murders over the weekend. Two people, they said they're looking for Daniel Spence, a 33 year old man, and Linda Fay Odom, a 32 year old, both of whom were last seen on February 19th.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So they think they're together. The police spokesman said Spence and Odom were last seen driving Linda Jarman's 73 Buick Century. So she's reported missing the same day. And they asked what's the relationship between them? And the cops said this quote, they're missing and the car is also missing in the same time frame. You can draw your own conclusions. In other words, these two were fucking and killed everybody and took off. They fucked in their blood and then left, probably, you know how it goes. So that's what they think happened at this point, that he ended up wanting to be with Linda, who he had a previous relationship with, or with Linda Odom, not Linda Jarman, and then killed these people because he was with Sherry and Linda happened to be there and now he's whatever. That's, that's what they're thinking now. So those two are on the run. They're looking for a Bonnie and Clyde. So all these interviews that they do with everybody point to Danny Spence because he's dating Sherry and now he's gone.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And the timing of him being there that night and not being there and all that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What's the deal?

[James Petregallo]

Say go? Well, let's. Let's figure this out. Let's just run his fingerprints through the system anyway and see who we're doing. Maybe he's got priors or something we can latch onto. They run his fingerprints based on just going into his apartment and lifting them off of shit, and they get a completely different result. His name is not Daniel Spence at all. His name is Daniel Lee Siebert. S I E B E R T. And he's wanted in San Francisco.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Would be.

[James Petregallo]

He's wanted for assault in San Francisco. He has a previous manslaughter conviction in Las Vegas. We'll talk about that. And he's considered in this national database as considered armed and extremely dangerous.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Extremely dangerous.

[James Petregallo]

Not the guy you want to put in to do art at the deaf school.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. Not even a guy you want to pick up in Tucson.

[James Petregallo]

No. That's why you don't pick up hitchhikers. No matter how good they are at drawing, you still don't fucking pick them up because they're wanted. They're all wanted for manslaughter or some assault or something.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So now who the fuck is this guy?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Because he's a completely different guy now.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Spence.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's not Spence. Well, let's talk about his background and where he comes from. His mom's name is Dorothy Richards. Originally Siebert. Later on, she was born in 32. 1932, and grew up in the, you know, in the Great Depression in Illinois. Just rough times. She got. She, I guess was. Her mother was married when she was 15. That's back. Which back then wasn't that abnormal. You know what I mean? Dorothy, for reasons we're not sure about, was placed in foster care at age 3. And back then a lot of people did that because they literally couldn't afford to feed their children. During the Depression, that was really common to give your kids up because at least the state would feed them. And I can't feed them.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Somebody's got beans and rice somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Literally, someone's got grain to feed this kid something. And her mother was divorced quickly, too, so she was like a 17 year old single mother with a kid and didn't know what to do, and pores all get out, so she just gives the kid away. Then the mother remarried here. Dorothy's Dorothy. I'm sorry, Remarried here because Dorothy also got married at 15, just like her Mom. She grew up, got married at 15, had a daughter just like her, and got divorced quickly. Just like exactly her mom's pattern. She remarries, though. It is. It's crazy. She remarried Irwin Julius Siebert in 1952. Now, this guy is about four years older than her. He's also from Illinois. He's a twin and one of six children, which is an interesting little psychological something. He served in the army in World War II, the very end of World War II. And in 52, he had just gotten out of the army, and that's when he met and married Dorothy. He's a truck driver and a real abusive piece of shit. Oftentimes as a PTSD having truck driver may tend to be. Sometimes that's. That's the thing. Now they have together Daniel Lee Siebert. He'll have many aliases over the years. Danny Spence, Danny Ray Spence, Daniel Marlowe. He's got a whole bunch of different ones. What is that?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Why did he. Where did he get Spence from?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Just decided that's what he wanted to be. Who knows if he's met a guy in Flagstaff who said, I'm Johnny Spence, and he was like, that's a name I can use. You never know what he saw or saw, a sign or a business. He's from Mattoon, Illinois and Irwin. His dad is super physically abusive and sexually abusive as well as we'll talk about. And that definitely lines up with his. His future and what he does, things that he does. He sexually abuses his son, his own son. And I'm talking real nasty shit like he's the male version of Skidmore Lady. Last week. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy and the reason why I find this to be fascinating, not in a good way, but just psychologically fascinating, is the difference between when you do this to a male and when you do this to a female. When you do this to a woman, a young girl, and you do this to a young man, different things happen. The woman wanted a baby of her own and she wanted to do all she had, all this that she wanted to have, and she was whacked out of her skull, but she wanted to have some sort of. She wanted to have a husband. In her marriage and a relationship. So whatever happened to her affected her that way. Whereas a man starts murdering people, lots.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Of them, she feels is based upon not being able to have something. So she lashes out by getting what she can't have.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Whereas a man might go out and say, I'm going to destroy the world.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Destroy things. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Whereas women generally, psychologically don't usually have that instinct that I'm going to just.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, it's hard.

[James Petregallo]

There's not a. There's not a lot of our Eileen Warnoses out there is what I'm getting.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right. There's very few villains in Batman that are females.

[James Petregallo]

They are the. They're like a cat or a plant or some shit. They're not a cat or a plant. They're not even that evil. They're just like doing shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So.

[James Petregallo]

He'S very temperamental, the father, and uninterested in spending any time with his family. Doesn't give a shit about Danny at all. Nothing. The Dorothy, in the understatement of the year, described her husband as, quote, not an understanding man.

[Jimmy Whitman]

A little difficult.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, this is. This is crazy. Dorothy would later say, which they found out wasn't true from friends and family and stuff. He did hit some, but it was mainly his attitude. Erwin never wanted to spend any time with him. He didn't want to bother with him. Now I'm not sure at what age he stopped bothering him. Bothering with him. It seemed like when he aged out of sexually abusing him, that's when he went from having at least that much interest in him to zero interest at all.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Didn't even take the time to beat him.

[James Petregallo]

We still beat him, but not sexually. Then do other things. He beat Daniel with a bullwhip. He still had scars as an adult from whippings. Forced him to perform sexual acts. Made him walk around in girls underwear just to embarrass him or whatever the fuck. Certain times he would tie him up, he would gag him. A lot of times while he'd be tied up and gagged, he would urinate on him. It's exactly what happened last week in Skidmore. He didn't build a special room off the trailer to do it in, but he did everything anyway.

[Jimmy Whitman]

They would pee on him.

[James Petregallo]

That's. It's insane. So this is a lot. I mean, he had a lot of shit going on in his childhood. That's a lot for anybody to endure. So not only that, they're super fucking poor also and unstable and they move all the time and they're poor and he's molesting him and beating him and peeing on him, and it's just a horrible life. So he's described by everybody as a harsh man who frequently resorted to physical punishment. His mother insists that the more significant damage was done by his emotional neglect. That's what hurt Danny more. But I think if you asked Danny, he'd probably have a different answer. He would have loved for his father to ignore him. If the other option is to beat, whip and rape me, I'd rather have you ignore me. Thank you.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'd rather not have hugs or praise as long as I'm not being raped and systematically tortured and peed on.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. So they said he showed no desire to bond with Danny or understand his needs or anything like that, which. That would be bad enough alone. But when you add all the abuse to it, this shockingly causes some behavioral problems for Danny. Surprising, right? So, yeah, his mother was more attentive to his needs, but. But she couldn't ever, according to Danny, ever shield him from her dad, from the dad. It was just. He was going to do what he was going to do, and mom would kind of ignore it and then go, oh, no, he's just a little mean. That's the only way she could get through it, I think here. So he would fight with his parents. He would fight at school. He would disobey teachers. He refused to adhere to anything that he's supposed to do. If it's a test and you have to sit there for 30 minutes, he's just going to get up and leave because you just told him to sit there for 30 minutes. It's the way he is. His mother would try to maintain order in the household, and it didn't work. And everything is just deteriorating. His only outlet is art. That's what he's into. And he really is a pretty talented artist. He draws pretty well, as we'll show you, with his very disturbing pictures that we have later on for you. Stay tuned for that at the end of the show here. Oh, by the way, they're for sale if you want some. So his. This is what he really tried to channel shit into art. And this. He described that as an escape from his dad. So he got into it as a young boy, basically. He would hide from his dad and draw. That's what he would do. He would learn. He said he learned to draw as a way to cope and basically drawing. When he was drawing, that's all he could concentrate on and he wouldn't worry about. He usually had a Constant fear of being, you know, abused and beaten. But when he was drawing, he couldn't think of all that. All he could think about. So all that would go away. Like anybody's. You have an outlet, you need it, you know what I mean? Some kids, it's sports. Some kids, of course, yeah, whatever it is, you know what I mean? So his talent, tv, whatever. Yeah, for us, comedy, that's what we were into. Comedy and shows and tv, that's what all of us. Distractions, learning, memorizing people's stand up and shit. That's what we did. So he really liked it. And also later on, it's going to help him because he can pop up and just be like a sign painter, a mural painter. All businesses, especially back then, we're all looking for people to draw on the windows and do shit like that.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

He could end up being the wind. That's the thing. He could drift and go wherever he wanted to and pick up work as needed, basically. One night in 1967, Daniel is 13 or 12, is not quite 13 yet. His mother's getting the shit beaten out of him, out of her, from the father. He decides that he's old enough to try to intervene at this point, which is ballsy for someone who's being abused his whole life though. So he grabbed Daniel by the throat and choked him till he fell unconscious on the floor. The father did and the mother thought he was dead because he choked him for like two fucking minutes and then dropped him on the floor unconscious. So he goes, holy fuck, you just strangled her son. But luckily he was just unconscious. So she the next day filed for divorce. You can beat him, you can rape him, you can piss on him, you can beat me, but when I think you killed our son, it's over. So she said that that was like the main thing was he choked the kid and all that kind of thing. So Dorothy gets custody. Daniel says after the divorce she had numerous boyfriends and he hated it. Made him very uncomfortable. And Daniel's father remarried and their relationship got even worse after that because now he wanted even less to do with him. The father, now that it's not even this lady's kid. His mother ended up getting remarried as well. But that didn't help either. It just. He didn't feel. Daniel never felt like he was part of this either household at that point.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Part of the family. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is hard. I know how that feels. It sucks. So he ran away at age 12. At first. That's when he first started running away. Develops some Severely antisocial behaviors. Starts committing petty crimes, stealing, never shows up at school. Back then, that was truancy. That was a crime. And he gets really into doing PCP as well.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which what age? Teenager. Real into it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which if you have problems already, PCP will both alleviate and cause some new ones all at once.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Exacerbate and fix at the same time.

[James Petregallo]

Alleviate and exacerbate all at the same time. So he starts committing tons of burglaries to buy more PCP as well. It's a mess. The kid's a mess. So his mother eventually decided to have him committed to a state youth home, which is juvie, essentially in 1968. So he's 14, saying he never goes to school. He's got terrible behavior, he's stealing shit, he's always getting arrested and in trouble. And they reported that local law enforcement said Daniel had been involved in petty theft and other non violent offenses at the time. So no violence yet, just thefts and little things. They said he developed a habit of running away from home, which is why his mother wanted to put him somewhere where he couldn't run away. So he has no adult supervision because he's just on the run half the time. He became just a drifter. He would hitchhike as a child. They would find him two states over when he ran away. He's just getting the fuck as far away as possible, he said. His mother said he would disappear for long periods of time, only occasionally making contact with her. Just literally to go, just want to let you know I was alive. And he hangs up on her, which is still. I mean, honestly, it's probably more than she's owed at this point, or either of his parents are owed. If I was him, I'd be like, let these motherfuckers worry. They probably don't care. So that's what I would think. But he would just wander and never have any, never set any roots anywhere. So he's in and out of the Illinois Department of Corrections boys home from 68 to 71. Multiple escape attempts, all of them. They'd find him two states over or all the way over here or somewhere. He's also getting much more antisocial. And I mean the clinical antisocial, not he doesn't like people. I mean, it's antisocial behavior. He's got a real rebelliousness, hates authority, he's always in trouble with the law. He began to display an interest in more serious shit, violent things. Up to this point, it was petty thefts, anything he could get away with and, you know, nobody would catch him. Or just thievery mainly. But now pushing the boundaries now he's starting to get a little bit weird. And at the same. Yeah, at the same time. So now he's like 17, 1971, he's out of this home. He's addicted to PCP, and he decided he becomes a. He starts turning tricks just to get by. At 17.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And not with women, obviously.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Obviously men.

[James Petregallo]

With whoever will pay for it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And this, by the way, is one of his main kind of psychological factors, I guess here is he's not straight, he's not gay, he's not even bisexual. He's a. He's a shapeshifter. He's like a fucking alien. He's like. If an alien came from a planet and was like. What was that movie in the 90s where the alien would turn into different shit? Like it was like a hot chick and then, you know, turn into a dude and whatever. There was a movie in the 90s about. Doesn't matter either way.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm sure. I'm trying to.

[James Petregallo]

It doesn't matter either way. He's like an alien that comes down and is like. Can turn into whatever somebody wants at the time. What they need to suck the life out of them. And that's what it is. If it's a guy and he needs to get money and a car or things from a guy, well, then he's gay for a minute. If it's a woman and he needs a place to stay and he needs stuff from her now he's a straight man and he's totally fine with that. And it's not like he likes both. He doesn't really like either.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He's just benefits him in this situation.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's so broken that he doesn't even have his own sexuality. He's just.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Doesn't know what it is at this point. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just uses it to get to benefit and to benefit and to just fool people too. So the other. Through all this, though, he's a really good artist. His mother recalled that he's an accomplished artist. He's really skilled in creating lifelike portraits and other works. You'll see how lifelike it is at the end, by the way. It's weird.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I can't wait. I'm fucking riveted.

[James Petregallo]

So that's like the only positive aspects of his life is that people would see his art and be like, oh, you're really good at this. But that was the only positive outlet he had. So he just starts drifting as his artistic talents are developing, he's drifting. He's constantly in trouble with the law. He can't maintain any stable relationships. Relationships with anybody, friends, family, you name it. Eventually, just stops talking to his family completely. His mom and everything like that. He's moving around, just looking for work. So 1972, he decides, you know what? God damn it, I'm going to do something with my life, all right? I'm going to join the Marines.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

That's a left turn. You didn't expect that, did you, in 1972, he makes that decision. That's a smart decision, in the middle of fucking Vietnam. I know it was winding down, but people were still getting sent over and killed over there, so.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Good. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He enlisted in 1972 under the name Daniel Marlow. Why not?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Who is that?

[James Petregallo]

Well, I don't think you could join if you had a long criminal record like he had. So he had to use, and soon.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You got to be. He had to be somebody else.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And then if you decide to run away, it's not you anyway, so who cares? You know? I mean, so he goes AWOL, obviously.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Marlow did.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Danny Marlowe takes off, goes AWOL. He's dishonorably discharged after 12 months. They're just like, we're tired of dealing with this fucking guy. Kicked him out, basically.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Booted from the Marines during wartime when no one was signing up. And they were drafting people. Yeah, they're literally, literally drafting people. And they were like, you go home, fuck up. You get out of here. We don't want to see any pictures of any bullshit. Just go. So he turns to crime. What else is he gonna do? He's got no other skills except art and crime. So he piles up. He heads to California at one point here. Piles up a pretty good record, criminal record in Los Angeles, of drug charges, batteries, assaults, you name it. Just tons of stuff. Working on that, running the gamut. Sure does some more drifting here. Just living totally transient, working as an artist here and there, traveling across the United States, painting murals, painting people's portraits. He'll go on the street. If it's a busy area or something, he'll go on the street and do caricatures and shit, whatever he has to to make ends meet. And the fact that he's a really good artist allows him to make a lot of connections with people. And connections, people trust a good artist. They like a good artist. So the problem was people would take him in, but then he would act like himself and act all crazy and unstable, and then they wouldn't want anything to do with him anymore. And then he'd be upset and mad that they don't like him. So it's a hard thing here. Also struggling with authority, obviously. Never gets arrested, ignores court dates, does shit like that. Changes jobs all the time. Just drifts. Doesn't share any details about his experiences or relationships with his family or anything like that. He's just a mess. His mother later said that he would call to check in, but that that would be it. He'd just go, yeah, I'm alive. Bye. Click. Fuck you. 1973 to 1975. He fathers two children.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Not the guy you want having kids. Just left it in there, I think is how you mainly. Do I have to. This is Jimmy. Let me tell you where babies come from. Hold on. We're going to take a sidebar here on the. We're going to tell Jimmy where babies come from. How does.

[Jimmy Whitman]

How does he convince somebody to stick around long enough when he's clearly unstable? He kept it together for a minute.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know if he kept it together. We don't know if they're from the same woman. We don't know if they're from two different women. We don't know if he might have had a stable relationship for a minute where he impregnated a couple people. But he's got a son and a daughter. We don't know anything about what happens to the daughter, even her name, which is probably for the best for her. The son, though, Damien, ends up in prison for child molestation. So guess what? What do you think happened to Damien? I mean. You know what I mean? With this guy, what do you think? Shit rolls downhill. Right?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right. But with the. With the way his life is too. Who. Who knows?

[James Petregallo]

Who knows where they left him? Yeah, well, who knows where he was? The mother thinks Danny Spencer, Danny fucking Siebert's a good guy to have a relationship with. So who knows if her judgment's lacking also or if he molested his kid, too. You never know.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know. Quick clarifier, too. Because last time we were talking about something like this, had a long message from a guy, and he was talking about how he misunderstood me, essentially. Wasn't ever saying that everyone who gets molested turns into molesters. That's never what I said. I was saying that most of the people that are molesters were molested. That doesn't mean that.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Or in an environment where molestation took place. It's yes, it's almost 100%. Calm down.

[James Petregallo]

But it's not, it's not all molesters molest. Are all molested people molest at all? I was just saying the people who do go on to molest have a past of being molested a lot of the time.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Most of the time or in an environment that occurs. It's just the way.

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whitman]

How else do they learn it?

[James Petregallo]

This, this person was telling me, was saying that like they thought I meant that if you're molested you'll definitely be a molester. And they were like my psychologist wife is disagrees with the holiday. I was like, listen, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't have time to explain it. But there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So as they molested. I'll tell you that it really feels weird and it's very difficult to have a, a relationship with any child because you have weird feelings about it. You always feel that people are looking at you funny. It's fucked up. I would assume so it fucks your head up entirely. And anybody that disagrees with that, inbox me, go ahead. I'll talk to your psychological wife.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, he's got two kids. One of them will end up in prison. So we don't know what the hell happened. I mean he named him Damien. Damien in the mid-70s, right after Omen came out. That's on purpose. That's 100% on purpose. Yeah, that's him going haha. That'll teach everybody. Fuck you people. So January 1979. 24 years old, not quite 25 yet. He's in a relationship now with a man. See what I mean? He has no. There is no. And it's not bi either. It's literally whatever's convenient to not even pan. Not even pan.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's just opportunist. That's what he is.

[James Petregallo]

Shape shifter. That's the best way I can describe it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sexual opportunist.

[James Petregallo]

Doesn't have sexual feelings, I don't think for people like that. He just has. This is how, you know, whatever. I can use this for other things. One night this relationship goes off the fucking rails. Apparently here he. And we'll find more details later, but he stabs this man 29 times. He stabs the boyfriend 29 times and kills him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is that the one in Vegas?

[James Petregallo]

That's in Vegas, yes. And he claims self defense.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Of course he does.

[James Petregallo]

With 29 stab wounds, which is. Yeah, he kept coming, man.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He's a tough man.

[James Petregallo]

Jason Voorhees. I was fucking. Don't you understand?

[Jimmy Whitman]

He.

[James Petregallo]

And when the cops came in and found them, he was laying next to the guy naked. Weird. Which was pretty weird. Now he is convicted. Somehow because of the self defense thing, it is muddled enough and it's 1979, so I think people were just like, Ah, two gay guys, I don't know what the hell they do. One of them must have punched the other one and then he threw one, bad or no. So they just go, manslaughter is good enough. And he is sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off. 10 years in prison 29 times. That's why. At least give a year.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, she should have self defense. She should have claimed self defense and said I had to get rid of him. So I just took him apart. And I was. And I was scared. She could have done that.

[James Petregallo]

I was scared.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Without her own fucking words, she might have gotten off.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, that's the truth. So December of 1990 or 1981, he is on work release. Two years after stabbing someone 29 fucking times, he escapes from work release. That's what he does. And he kidnaps and rapes a woman in California.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. So he heads right back to Cali and ends up kidnapping and raping a woman that he end up having had a ride with at that point. Then he goes to San Francisco and there's a woman up there. We don't know her name, but she is. He's driving and she's in his car in the passenger seat. He kidnapped her. So he's got a kidnap victim in his car. They are on the Golden Gate Bridge, driving across the Golden Gate Bridge, I assume toward Marin county where the woods are, where he can fucking take her and dump her. Yeah, she fucking jumps out of the moving vehicle on the Golden Gate Bridge, which you can imagine. Cause get some attention. That's a spectacle. Yeah. She literally jumps from a moving car, tumble and screaming, help me, help me. While he fucking takes off. That is terrifying.

[Jimmy Whitman]

If that happened in an action movie, you'd be like, not even believe me.

[James Petregallo]

Bullshit. She's gonna get run over by all the. Yeah, bullshit. So Danny, she goes, everybody sees this. They help her. The cops come. So now they're after him. He is captured in Oakland the next day.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Now for assault and rape and kidnapping and all of this and escape, he has one year added to his sentence. I mean, if you're going to Compare it to 29 stab wounds, I guess that's not as bad or something. But wow. Unbelievable.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Very lenient.

[James Petregallo]

So he is paroled in 1985. Seems like a perfect candidate for parole.

[Jimmy Whitman]

There we go.

[James Petregallo]

Although the general. We've talked about this before, but the general idea is to release people before they're dated out so you can keep an eye on him for a few more years and give them extra charges and take them back. Yeah. The only condition of parole is that he appear in San Francisco to go to court for those kidnapping charges that he has. He doesn't ever show up for that. Obviously that's why he's still wanted years later for the kidnapping there. So that's a parole violation. So he flees from that. And that is when he decided to leave and go hitchhike across the country. And that's how he ended up in Tucson with Hendren picking him up. Hendren had no idea that that's where he was coming from. Just got out of parole and was escaping kidnapping court in San Francisco.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

He just saw a guy with an artist fucking case and said, oh, look at you, we're friends now.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Messy guy with some colored pencils.

[James Petregallo]

Yup. Jesus Christ. Now, February 25, 1986, back to the present here. Cheryl Evans, who's 19, is found strangled as well. A 19 year old woman is found strangled. Now, the police say that she was involved in prostitution, but that's never been confirmed and nobody knows if that's true. And for them, if she might have, who knows, if she turned a trick once in a while, they consider that full blown. You know, that's a whole lifestyle full blown. Pretty woman. Now that's all it is. But we don't know that whether it happened or not. But they find her strangled in Calhoun county, March of 86. They find a cream colored 1973 Buick Century. Century, that's the one. Found abandoned near Elizabethtown, Kentucky.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Dang, that's a ride.

[James Petregallo]

That's a ride. Now by the way, Calhoun county is going north out of Alabama is where they found that. So Elizabethtown, Kentucky, hundreds of miles away, inside a black purse is found containing a receipt with the name Sherry Weathers on it. Okay. Also found in the car was a brass key which matched Danny. Danny Siebert's door locks. Oh, so now her stuff and his stuff are both in the car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

All together in her car.

[James Petregallo]

So, like that's interesting. Then about a hundred yards away, they find way more interesting stuff. They find an abandoned campsite. Oh, they found business cards bearing the name Daniel Spence and the address of the Porter building apartments. Various photographs of Sherry Weathers, A mailgram addressed to Don Hendren Connect. Everybody evil? A little more. A birth certificate bearing the name Danny Ray Spence. I don't know where he got that. Made fake. He's an artist. Maybe he made it. The other items bearing the name Daniel Spence. Two sheets of white paper on which appeared the names of Sherry Weathers, Chad Weathers and Joseph Weathers. Just written down her kids.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And an art pad bearing the name Sherry Weathers. Her art pad. It's her. Not in, like, draw. Sherry Weathers. It was her pad. They also found about 30 pairs of women's panties as well.

[Jimmy Whitman]

30 pairs?

[James Petregallo]

30 pairs.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Nobody has that many, right?

[James Petregallo]

No, he's been stealing those. I feel like just grabbing them off clotheslines or whatever. But 30 pairs of panties, several pairs of pantyhose, a bikini type bathing suit, a black negligee and a half slip.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

These are trophies. These are trophies. There's also a bedspread and other items that are linked to Linda Jarman's apartment. So now we have in this are things connected to Danny and two different murder victims. And the guy that drove him to town looking bad for Danny. Then they find two fingerprints and a palm print. And those are identified as belonging to Daniel Siebert. Then they take the shoe print that they found at Sheri Weathers house, her apartment, they compare it to some of the shoe prints from Danny's Porter Building apartment and find a perfect match in tread size. Tread and size. It's a certain type of boot. Also, this is disturbing. In his apartment, a child's pajama bottom was found there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, I don't like that.

[James Petregallo]

No, I don't like that. This is what I mean. He's a fucking predator. That's all he is. He's just a predator. A drooling fangs. Drooling from the fangs. Fucking predator. So are they ever gonna find this fucking guy? Cause they have no idea where he went. They have no clue.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What are you gonna do?

[James Petregallo]

So the detective who's the first one on the scene, Eugene Jacks, said each day when you went to work, the first thing you did was start. Start checking tips and leads of the possibility of where Siebert was. There wasn't a day that went by that you didn't do something on the Siebert case. That's interesting. He assigned one investigator to solely maintain contact with people in Siebert's address book. Keep calling him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

See if he contacted. He builds a rapport with one of Siebert's ex girlfriends in Las Vegas. Okay. And the ex says, I promise you if he calls, I'll let you know. Which. Yeah, right. Thanks a lot. So the district attorney, Robert Rumsey, said, we spent six months and no telling how many trips, with the investigators running down every little lead that they could come up with. He's in the wind. We don't know where he is. But we knew eventually somebody's gonna die. Until he's caught. Jesus, this guy ain't gonna stop killing people. Because the other body they found on the 25th, they assume that that's his too, probably. It's also, like, on the road to Elizabethtown. So they're like, yeah, it works. So what the fuck's Daniel up to? On the run.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Where's he at?

[James Petregallo]

March 8, 1986. He encounters a woman named Beatrice McDougal, who's 57, in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He's all the way up there, all.

[James Petregallo]

The way the fuck up there. He is mobile. I mean, with or without a car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

How the fuck is he doing it?

[James Petregallo]

He priced all another car. He does.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So Beatrice is 57. She's from Schenectady, New York, originally. Poor lady. She's a mother of three and worked as a tour bus guide in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Sure. Now her kids are all grown up, so everybody described her as just coming into her own and out of her shell. Once her kids got out of the house and she started to live a life, she was like a housewife and raised her kids that way. And now she gets to go out and do stuff. And she's known for being real easygoing and kind, as opposed to those surly tour guides you usually get. So, yeah, she was preparing a hospitality room at the hotel. That's what she was doing for the guests who were going on this tour to, you know, come in and get a snack or whatever and leave coffee up or whatever. Yep. So Siebert thought, hmm, Tour guides carry cash because back then they would. You'd pay the tour guide.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he comes into the room. She's in the hospitality room. She friendly thinking, oh, here's another person wants to join the tour instead. Instead he says, how about I stab you twice in the stomach instead?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then that didn't kill her. So he strangles her as well.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

And robs her also. And her body was found in a different hotel room in Atlantic City, like in the building. So I don't know how the hell he did that. This is crazy. So that's what he's doing. March 10th. He. He has some issue here. He has a run in with the police in Atlantic City and uses a Social Security card to identify himself rather than a driver's license bearing the name of Chad Weathers.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's the child.

[James Petregallo]

That's a five year old child that he murdered. That's what he says. That's me. I'm Chad Weathers. The cop doesn't run the Social Security number and just goes, yeah, whatever, and lets him go here.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whitman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whitman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whitman]

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[James Petregallo]

Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 this is.

[Jimmy Whitman]

This is crazy.

[James Petregallo]

This is fucked. Where does he think he's going to go somewhere? March 30, 1986. A cemetery outside of Talladega. A skeleton is found above ground.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, those are all fine if they're in the dirt in the cemetery. When you find one above ground, there's either someone got murdered or they're escaping and we need to run one of the two. There's a lot of them.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You rarely get your eyes on them.

[James Petregallo]

No. So they find a completely decomposed body and dental records confirm it's Linda Faye Odom. The one who they thought was his accomplice? No, no, no. He murdered her that day also a long fucking time ago. Dumped her out. That's the garbage bags he was putting in his trunk. Was her fucking body in front of the boyfriend? And said, yeah, this is stuff I'm taking back to my ex. Wow, that is fucked up. She's been dead since February 19th. She was the first victim. She has been beaten so fucking horribly, by the way. Even mostly skeletonized, you can tell she's been savagely beaten and just dumped. Somehow she wasn't found for over a month in a cemetery body.

[Jimmy Whitman]

How about that? So when you get buried, that's how much you're visited?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Nobody gave a fuck.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Buddy gives a fuck about the cemetery.

[James Petregallo]

No, that is sad too. June 14, 1986.

[Jimmy Whitman]

June.

[James Petregallo]

They found her in March 30. He's still fucking gone. How does this guy keep escaping? June 14, 1986. He is arrested, Sort of. Yeah, he's arrested.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Interaction.

[James Petregallo]

He's arrested for car theft in Virginia and he uses Joey Weathers. The four year old's Social Security card as his id. It's. They don't run it. It's just enough for him to be able to get bail, make it and fucking bounce, get out of town. Yep. So they had him in handcuffs and let this motherfucker go. Processed, sitting in a cell, and they went, nah, let him go. $500 bond, 50 bucks and you're out of here. Are you kidding me? Think about that shit. They had him. This is why we say we make fun of bumbling police. You had him. You had a fucking serial killer right in your midst. Child killer.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You're booking a man with a Social Security card, his id, yes, and letting him go. You shouldn't be able to let that man go until. No, you have confirmation who he is.

[James Petregallo]

At least run his Prince. Yeah, but his Prince, that. Back then, you can't just run them right through the computer. They took him while. So he made bail before they even ran his Prince. Probably. That's the problem. They looked at us. They looked at his Social Security card, ran that. No record. They're not wanted anywhere. There you go. Good enough. So, yeah, because Joseph Charles Weathers wasn't wanted because he was 4.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right. He doesn't have a record yet.

[James Petregallo]

No record. Yeah. August of 1986. He is in Baltimore now. He's almost arrested. He assaults a woman, apparently in front of other people. And they try to hold him there till the cops arrive. But he escapes from these people and runs away. Yes. And he's been using Chad and Joey's Social Security cards wherever he goes. A criminologist later said, quote, by possessing these children's names, by presenting yourself as them, you are owning them. You're possessing them. They are yours. So it's more than just a matter of convenience. It's also an ownership thing.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm a God.

[James Petregallo]

He gets it all out of that. September 3, 1986. This is too much time. Remember that girlfriend in Las Vegas that the investigator made friends with there? She calls on September 3rd and said, quote, danny just called me.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

And they said, where the fuck was she? Was he. Did he tell you? And she said, no, he wouldn't say where he was. Great. That's useless. They said, is there anything you can tell us? And they said, well, he told her what time it was. So it had to be in the central time zone. Because it was in Central. The time was two hours or whatever, an hour from west coast time. She said, so the call only lasted two minutes. So I didn't get a real chance to get into it with him, but I know he was in central time, and I could hear thunder and rain in the background.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I think that's good.

[James Petregallo]

So anywhere in the central time zone with rain, which is not really narrowing it down too good.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Well, at a certain time, you could probably check some weather records and figure out where there was rain.

[James Petregallo]

Well, Eugene Jacks, the detective, said to his assistant, go call the National Weather Service.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Find out where it's raining and thundering in the central time zone. If it's 20 places, hundreds of miles apart, obviously we're fine. But let's. Let's give it a shot. The answer, Tennessee. The only place that's happening right now.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Only place with a storm.

[James Petregallo]

The only Tennessee had storm. The only place in the central time zone that had storms that night was Western Tennessee. That's it. They said the phone company then takes all of these calls, the call from her that came in and traces that. They say it can take weeks to trace in 1986. But they had the state narrowed down so they can get it quicker.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's great.

[James Petregallo]

They said it's in fucking Tennessee. So it takes only a few days to find a payphone at a convenience store in Hurricane Mills, Tennessee, 70 miles west of Nashville, population 200.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Little, tiny, dinky fucking town that happened to be thundering and raining outside. So now they know where he is. For now, who knows?

[Jimmy Whitman]

Two days ago. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So September 4th, they said that they started assembling their team to go there. The district attorney said, no question. We were keyed up. This was a live hit. Now. So they get the team together. It's the attorney there, the D.A. they get Eugene Jacks, the detective and investigator Dennis Surret, and the Tennessee Board of Investigation or Bureau of Investigation, all these people are involved. They arrive in Hurricane Mills at night. Now there's a restaurant in Hurricane Mills. There's not a lot of. Not a lot of places. There's no mall or anything. Go ask around. So they go to the restaurant, figure if people are hanging out here, they probably come to this restaurant. So they show him Siebert's photo, and the guy said, yeah, he's been painting some signs for me.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Great guy.

[James Petregallo]

Good dude. He said, yeah, no, he'll be in here in the morning to collect his check.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's great.

[James Petregallo]

So they're like, awesome. We're gonna hang out.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We'll be here, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we'll be here, too. So Dennis Surret said, an investigator said, everybody's upbeat. Everybody's tired, but everybody's upbeat. I don't think A single one of us even took a nap that night. No, they've been months overtime. Every minute of their day has been on this.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We're about to have him.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So they just sit out in the dark. They go out in some road somewhere and just sit in their cars and wait for morning, basically. So at dawn, they're converging around the restaurant, and Detective Jax said, it's hard to describe what it was like sitting there waiting for him to come around the building, but I'd always wondered if I'd recognize him. When I saw him when he rounded the corner of that building, there was no doubt in my mind, that's him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

There he is.

[James Petregallo]

So they wait for Siebert to enter the convenience store, then they all rush in, okay? Because it's easier to get him in a confined area than somewhere he could run. You know what I mean? So they go in, guns drawn.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's not there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Where'd he go?

[James Petregallo]

Did we spook him? They're thinking, did he run out the back door? So they go. Clerk silently points to the restroom.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Six officers with weapons drawn burst into a tiny men's room where he's taking a shit. They kick open his stall door. He's literally sitting on the fucking stall with his pants down and says, quote, how'd y' all find me? Well, it's a long story, Danny. There'll be a podcast in about 30 years. It'll talk all about it. Don't you worry. 40 years, almost. So he's arrested. I don't know if they let him wipe or finish shitting or what, but, I mean, what's he gonna do? Escape down the drain? So that's one you gotta kind of. All right, well, you finish shit, and then you just sit there with your gun drawn.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he's arrested. At the time he's arrested, in his possession, he has a Social Security card with Joey Weathers name on it. A torn manila envelope also on which appeared, without the W, Just Eathers Joseph. So he had, like, all of his info in a folder he was carrying. The Detective Jax said, quote, man alive. You can't even imagine the relief you feel. He actually said, man alive. Wow. I don't think I've ever heard someone actually say that.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Exasperated in an interview, he said, man alive.

[James Petregallo]

Isn't that weird?

[Jimmy Whitman]

I used to say it all the time, and it was my favorite. I still say it from time to time. Norm MacDonald. It was his favorite.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. He said it as a joke because it was an old timey he liked old timey phrases, that's why. Yeah, it was perfect. Man alive. That sounds like jeepers or something. It's funny, he said man alive. You can't imagine the relief you feel. We've got him. He's not going to hurt anybody else. And you're thinking of Sherry and you're thinking of the babies and Linda. And Linda Odom. Okay, we can put everybody to rest now. It's the best feeling in the world. Yeah, it is. But now they got to find out what he's been, what else there is. Yeah, so. And what's he gonna be like when you get this guy in there? What's he gonna be like, you think? You know what I mean, Is he gonna. He's not real good with authority. So is he gonna tell him to go fuck their mothers? Is he gonna just lie? Is he gonna stone face him and. Or stonewall him and just not say shit? Just say lawyer. What's he gonna do here? So he's had a lot of kind of experience in the legal system, so he knows he's a lawyer. So. In custody, he says, this is in custody up in Tennessee too. They haven't even taken him back home yet. He says, I don't want a lawyer. I don't want any bullshit. I'll talk. I'll talk right now. Tell you everything you want to know.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They're like, okay, yeah, sure, they think he's gonna lie, but yeah, there he goes. Detective Jack.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Just going to tell us everything about the car theft.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, or, yeah, I stole. I broke in and stole Linda's kids information so I could go around the country and whatever the fuck. Detective Jack said, he wasn't concerned at all. Showed no emotion whatsoever, never shed a tear. You could tell there was no concern in him about what he had done. Didn't. He is cold as fucking ice. This guy doesn't have a. His feelings were tortured out of him as a kid and he doesn't have them anymore. That's all there is to it. So first of all, he says, yeah, Linda Fayote, Yeah, I strangled her. That's what happened to her. The one you found in the cemetery? Yeah, I strangled her in her boyfriend's apartment.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

We went back there after he took off to get his car and then he moved her body to his own apartment and then took her, carried her over there, then took her to the cemetery and dumped her. So this guy risked moving the body twice. Balls. He also said about her, he doesn't know why, but he strangled her and beat her to death. He said, but after she was dead and after I took her home, I just kept beating her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Kept beating the dead body.

[James Petregallo]

Kept beating a dead woman. Not a dead horse, a dead woman. Kept just beating her. Yeah, she was already dead. It didn't make any sense. And he said, I don't know. I just kept beating her. Couldn't stop beating her. I knew she was dead. Kept beating her anyway. And they said, why? Why'd you do all this? And he said, she's a racist.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is she?

[James Petregallo]

She's black. And she's saying that. He's saying that she was racist against him. But they. Doesn't make any sense. They're hanging out, having lunch, and had a relationship also. They kind of hooked up a little bit, so it shouldn't sound that racist to me. Whoever you fuck, it's hard to be racist against. So anyway, he said, I borrowed Linda's car, returned to my apartment, lowered Linda Odom's body out of the back window with a sheet.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

He put her body in a sheet, then lowered it out the back window. And nobody saw somebody lowering a corpse from their window. The balls on this guy, man.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And just dropped her into somebody else's car.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, put her into Linda Jarman's car and dumped it off Alabama Route 77 near. Oh, wow. Ohache. Ohachee. I guess. Is that how that said now? He said he went to the Sherry Weathers apartment then that evening. And this was. This was after fetus had already left. Fetus said he left around midnight. So this was. He was gone all night. He came back and he said he had a key. Sherry had given him a key.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he just let himself in and. Which was fine. They were expecting him. So Sherry and Linda were there. Everybody was hanging out. And eventually Linda Jarman left. He said as he and Sherry were walking toward the bedroom with Sherry in front of him. He said he had a piece of cloth on him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Just wrapped it around her neck and.

[James Petregallo]

He just strangled her from behind. Just decided to strangle her right then. She didn't do anything. There was no reason. It was just. He already killed somebody else and he's going to go on the run, so he might as well kill more. So then he kills her and leaves her. Now the boys are both asleep at this point, he could literally walk out the door and that's it. The boys would never know the difference. They weren't awake or there or anything. Instead, he goes and one at a time, wakes the boys up and murders.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Them and brings them out there.

[James Petregallo]

Brings them out there and said, that's why the first one, he said, come on and join your mother. And then said, come join your mother and brother. It was after he killed the first one. He said that. That is fucking insane. He woke the kids up. Couldn't just murder them while they were sleeping, even. He woke them up to murder them. That is.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Couldn't even.

[James Petregallo]

Just.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Couldn't just leave him alone. Leave.

[James Petregallo]

Well, just leave him alone.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Walk out. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's it. You didn't have to do anything. So that is insane.

[Jimmy Whitman]

But he needed. Was that maybe his idea was, I'm gonna take all their identity and I'll just go be the boys now.

[James Petregallo]

You have to.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I guess that's what.

[James Petregallo]

I think the whole motivation for even knowing Sherry was there's two identities I can steal, possibly. So, yeah, he took the kids out there where they would then saw their dead mother and then dead brother and then strangled them that way. He arranged the bodies, the children stacked on top of their mother in the shape of a cross and covered him with the sheet. They go, why'd you do that? He went, I don't know.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's just fun.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Which there's some more significance to it, but he doesn't want to get into it. That's. That's something. Yeah. That's. The people don't pose bodies for no reason.

[Jimmy Whitman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

There's a reason behind that. Psychologically.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. And something that people will recognize right on site.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. There's something in their brain that wanted them to do that. But he's not interested in talking about that because he's got all sorts of other shit to talk about. So he said he left town in Linda's car. He said he abandoned it in Kentucky after it had two flats. Can't go much farther with that. So he said he set up the campsite that they found all the panties and all that shit at. They set up that campsite. He stayed there for a couple days and then headed northeast in an attempt to get as far away from Alabama as he possibly could. That's what he was trying to do. They go. They said, why did you kill Sherri Weathers? It doesn't sound like you had to kill Sherry Weathers. He said, and I quote, because she was deaf and would never amount to anything. Huh.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I think she was doing fine, man.

[James Petregallo]

There's that actress who has, like, fucking Emmys and shit. Like, she does great. There's plenty of deaf people that do. Yeah. Marlee Matt. She's great. Great actress. She's funny. She was the deaf lines woman on Seinfeld. Very funny.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So then they said, okay, that's insane and fucked up and, yeah, weird and shit, but why the children? You didn't have to kill the children. And he said, wow, this is fucking insane. They wouldn't amount to anything because they didn't have a mother because you killed her. Yeah, you fucking lunatic. And when asked about the whole thing, they said, well, what did they say? Were they trying to talk you out of it? What happened? He said, sherry didn't have anything to say. Joey didn't have anything to say. Chad didn't have anything to say. And I don't have anything to say.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And I don't have anything to say.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whitman]

My God.

[James Petregallo]

A criminologist that studied him said, if there's anything that could be more heartless, more utterly revolting, more depraved than that remark, I've yet to hear it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I don't know what to say.

[James Petregallo]

That's horrifying. They didn't say anything because the kids probably were used to not talking much around the house because Mom's deaf. Yeah, Sign language would be the thing to say.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's a horrific noise that you heard, though.

[James Petregallo]

Unbelievable.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So he's extradited back to Alabama.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And that's when he continues confessing, giving it up. Keeps talking. They. They find out about Linda Jarman. Now, they said he said he walked to her apartment after he killed Sherry and the kids. Yeah, he killed Sherry and the kids and walked over to her apartment and tells her that he and Sherry had a fight. Can he sleep on her couch? So she said, sure, why not? Of course you can. We were just all laughing. So they all sat down, or the two of them sat down and drank some Thunderbird. Literally. If you don't know what Thunderbird is, it's cheap wine. If you've never been really poor drunk Thunderbirds, Cheap, awful wine. Yeah. Like in the Wire or not in the Wire. In the homicide book, when they're in like the worst part of Baltimore, looking through this guy, this guy who's a total scumbag and they think killed a 12 year old girl. His place is disgusting and he's gross and everything's gross. They found a big stain on the floor and dude scraped it up and smelled it. And they go, is it blood? And he goes, that ain't blood. That be Thunderbird. That's what the guy told him. And it was. It was Thunderbird. So that's who drinks Thunderbird. Guys who may have Killed children and live in fucking abandoned buildings. That's what they're drinking. So they drank some Thunderbird and laid down on the couch. And he laid down on the couch till she went to bed. After she fell asleep, he went in with a strip of pink cloth and strangled her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He just carries little bits of cloth with him to kill people.

[James Petregallo]

Lengths of cloth that he could. That's what I mean. A sick fuck keeps shit like that. Oh, I could strangle someone with this. I might need this. So in her sleep too, he attacked her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which is pussy. So from the court documents, it said they went to the bedroom partially clothed and laid down upon the bed. See the newspaper? Didn't want to put it out. But in the court documents, apparently they were hooking up was what is thought to have happened here. So they went in the bedroom. She was partially clothed, but we don't know that that's what he said. So who knows? She could have just put her night clothes on and then he came in the bed. But he said he laid down upon the bed where he murdered her by strangling her. And that's when he stole her VCR and her car. Went. Lowered the fucking body out of the window, did all that shit. That's all going on. Wow.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He murdered a woman and left the other one sitting in his plates.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, yes. He's got a lot of plates spinning right now. He's got murder plates spinning hard. So they said, why'd you do this to her? Why'd. You didn't even. You went over there to do it. Why'd you do it? He shrugged and said, needed a car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Needed a car.

[James Petregallo]

Could have just stole a random car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't have to do this. Then they start finding through all of his shit, they're looking through all of his things and all of his possessions and they find something really scary in his apartment. It's an atlas. A big road atlas. This is before gps, big book of maps. It is marked with X's and circled X's. The detective Jax said, quote, he said every place there was an X with a circle around it is where he had killed someone. The exes were just robberies, okay? So they start contacting those jurisdictions and every single. He's not lying.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Every one of them has a body there.

[James Petregallo]

There's fucking bodies there. Yeah. Cheryl Evans, he confesses to, he's never going to be charged for Cheryl Evans death because of lack of formal indictment, which makes more sense. But he said, by the way, for this murder, he used Donald Hendren's car while Hendren was asleep. He didn't even know his car was used for murder. Oh, that was because this was before the ones he killed. Remember? She was found on 25 February. He had killed her before that, a week and a half before that. Then he starts confessing about others. Gidget Castro in 1985. December 85, right before he started hitchhiking. She's a divorced mother of two and was self employed, did house cleaning for people. She also was active in like 1970s activisms. She was into Black Panther rallies and shit like that in the early 70s.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He found her in December 85 and robbed her in Los Angeles. Her body was found December 26, 1985 in an alley in Commerce, Ca, California. The problem, they never thought it was anybody else. They just linked and lumped her in with the south side serial killer cases.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petregallo]

So he got that was he was free and clear. They weren't. They just attributed her to that guy. They didn't even sleeper. Yeah, think about it. And instead this is it. Clears it from that one and goes on to Danny's. Because he knew shit nobody else knew.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, he confessed. This is two Los Angeles detectives came out, he confessed to them. He's going to be charged in California, but we'll find out if he ever gets tried. Yeah, so again, he murdered her by strangulation. And again, police claim she's a prostitute, even though there's no evidence of that whatsoever. Yeah, so next up, he says, oh, Nessia. Got to tell you about her too.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Nessia Gail McElrath, December 1985. Again, he had a busy December. She was 23 years old from Los Angeles. Again, cops say she was a prostitute. Never arrested for it. People said, no, she wasn't. They just assume. Anybody found dead in an alley as a prostitute back then, that's it in the 80s. So he strangled and robbed her. Her body was found Dec. 19 in a rural area near Castaic, California, which is 20 miles from the south central Los Angeles neighborhood she disappeared from. Initially, they thought that this. At first they thought it had nothing to do with the south side serial killer because it was away from here. But then they attributed her to him and then they had to take her off of that list and put him on Danny Siebert's list here. So. And he had information only the killer. He had the details. Only the killer would know shit because very little was released publicly. So now he's charged again in that crime. Now they Said at the end, why the fuck did you do all of this?

[Jimmy Whitman]

What the fuck, man?

[James Petregallo]

You've killed so many people. Because he said, I'm not even done yet. I got more.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, I believe it.

[James Petregallo]

They said, why? And he said, needed money.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's it.

[James Petregallo]

That's it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I needed a car. I needed money.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. He never heard of just stealing shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Apparently, or getting a goddamn job.

[James Petregallo]

Goddamn job, yeah, that's one thing. But even if you steal shit, don't kill everybody. Yeah, or get a job. One of the two. So when asked how many people he killed, another shrug. This guy's big on his shrugs. He shrugs and said, quote, maybe a dozen, maybe more. I try to put these things out of my mind.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I'm sure you do.

[James Petregallo]

So they have 10 confirmed victims they know are his, and then other ones. It was so muddled and lack of evidence. They don't know, but they suspect that there's 13 and possibly maybe 15. There's probably 20 and could be God knows how many. Could be 50 for all we know, but they're pretty sure there's at least 13. So the detectives are, number one, horrified, but number two, pretty goddamn psyched to get all this information, because they're clear, in murder cases, there's families that are knowing what happened to their fucking daughters. There's. Things are moving. So this guy, Eugene Jacks, again, he said, quote, these people look out for each other. They had to. About the deaf ladies, when you can't hear danger coming, you rely on your community to keep you safe, right? And he also said about Siebert, a very interesting thing because he spent a lot of fucking time with him, talking to him in multiple states, and he said, if you didn't know what kind of a monster he really was, you could actually like him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I believe that.

[James Petregallo]

Which meant that he was. That was his mask he could put on.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He's a chameleon. He'll blend in.

[James Petregallo]

He's a shapeshifter. I can be cool with the cops. I can be sexually attracted to guys. I could be sexually attracted to women. I could kill them. I kill kids. I need this. He's just, wow, he is a scary man. So the crimes span multiple states, but his prosecutions are going to be concentrated in Alabama, where he faces the death penalty for multiple murders. So basically, all the other states are going to hold off. I mean, if he got acquitted in Alabama, obviously he's not going to because he confessed, but then we can start charging him. But he's charged in California. He's not charged in New Jersey, or. I think he might be indicted, but not formally, whatever the fuck, however it works. So why the hell does he do all this? Why? Well, they asked this Dr. Yardley here, and she did an analysis of his traits. She said that he exhibited, quote, every possible psychopathic tendency.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

All of them, including complete lack of remorse, no conscience, no empathy. She said some killers are driven by hatred, but he had. That's not him. He has no hatred. Yeah, that's what's fucked up about it. Killers with hatred. At least there's something in there. There's a light. This. She said he has no compassion or feelings for anyone. People were just objects to him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Weird.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing. He felt nothing.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Nothing even for his father, who raped and beat him.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing. Just dead inside. Which you'd have to be to survive that. You'd have to shut off everything to survive that. That's the thing. And then when you shut off everything, you end up like this. Yeah, it's scary. So they said that. She said this is also evident in his military stint because she said, he joined the Marine. Who's the most tough? The Marines. That's the toughest one. They're the toughest. I'm gonna go to Vietnam and I'm gonna join the Marines. That's the most alpha male, tough thing he could do, this doctor said, but he went AWOL because he couldn't handle the structure. He couldn't do it. He wanted to have all those things, but he couldn't handle being on time and being told where to go and what to do. It just wasn't a thing. So she said that his early crimes, like the 1979 stabbing, she said she framed that as in terms of shame. He was ashamed of his sexual leanings at that point, or just sexual actions, not necessarily leanings, because he really didn't have any leanings. She said that he's the most manipulative person who could have ever been born. She said he could perform caring behaviors and he knew how to mirror behavior that he should be doing, but he didn't actually feel it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh. He knew how to outwardly project it and make it look like he feels.

[James Petregallo]

That he saw what people do.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

Because he's smart enough to understand this is the problem. When you get somebody who's smart like this, they can then put it together intellectually. Of, okay, when people are acting helpful and nice, that's how they look and act and make eye contact. That's what I have to do, even though I don't feel it or Understand it. I get it. That's what I have to do. Like, he studied them like you would study how to hunt animals. Oh, you have to get in the tree and then you wait for them to come. It's the same shit. It's disturbing. She said he lacked total genuine emotion. They said. They said she examines. And she wrote a book about called Social Media Homicide Confessions in 2017, where she examines how killers like Siebert curate their image. Post crime too. Because now, once they're caught, now they need an image because everyone knows who they are and they're very famous, by the way. Nobody knows this fucking guy. This guy is very, very not heard of, which is insane. For all he did.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Way too unheard of.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That's how crazy. How many murders, murderers there are. So she said she dissects his motives as a mix of rage and envy and pragmatism. I mean, also, I need a car. I need money.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

For the 86 murders in Talladega, all the deaf people and the kids. She said that she had probably had envy towards Sherry Weathers and her children who were happy and loving. And he probably saw that and it pissed him off.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Hated it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They've got jealous of those kids.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. And they're still happy. And nobody's being these children, very well taken care of. And that pisses him off.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. So she said he was probably. He craved that. Never had it. And it made him angry. Now they said, what about the post mortem abuse of Linda Odom's body where he said, I just kept beating her and beaten her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

And they said that reflects rage and a sense of control, which. Yeah, they said that he did. That had to be what it was. And opportunism is the reason of killing Beatrice McDougal for money in Atlantic City. They said that was just for straight money. He said also he targeted a lot of times, like in California, people on the margins, people who were part time sex workers, things like that. Because he thought simply society valued them less and they have much better access to them. You can get to them easy and no one will care if they're gone. Basically, that's what he thought. She gave this remark, or she talks about that when he said, Sherry didn't have anything to say, Joey didn't have anything to say. She said it was heartless, revolting and depraved. And she talks about the road atlas. Why'd he keep a map of this? What was he gonna do? Go back and look at them like, what are we talking about? And she said, oh, no, no, not at all. This was a commemoration of his crimes. This would be like a normal family would have like, you know, a magnet on the fridge they bought on vacation or, you know, things like that. That's what this is for him. This is. This is his, you know, his photos from Grand Canyon.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is me by the abyss or whatever.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, right. This is his magnet map of the United States with all them. With all the states he's been to.

[James Petregallo]

His game of the states.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind had no background check system at the time.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Which is how he got there in the first place. If they did a background check, they know that wasn't him. So they all had to do is fingerprint him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that changed pretty much immediately. They said they implemented new security measures, including background checks for all employees and volunteers, restricted access to student housing, mandatory reporting systems, and even self defense classes for the deaf students because they can't hear anybody coming. So they'd have people sneak up on him and shit. And then you'd have to figure out how to deal with that. So March 1987, he goes to trial. Linda Jarman is the first trial. For some reason not sure why, there's a judge, William C. Sullivan, he's gonna preside over all of his trials. So he's gonna hate Danny in a minute. Here he is charged with capital murder. Cause it's during a robbery. She stole her car. And that's why they're doing it first. Because he stole her VCR in her car. And this is an easy death penalty case. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. So they spend the first day selecting a jury. There's 14 total. Two alternates, 13 women and one man. Oh, that's.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I've never heard of that before.

[James Petregallo]

I haven't either. But he's got to look at that jury and go, oh, then again, though, men are gonna be just as mad because how you fucking. How much of a pussy are you? You're attacking deaf women and children, you scumbag. Allegedly.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Allegedly.

[James Petregallo]

So an opening statement. Well, I've done the whole episode, so I know the outcome. You calm down at this point.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's alleged.

[James Petregallo]

It's alleged. So in opening arguments, district attorney said that he killed Linda Jarman for her car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

After he killed Sherry Weathers and her two children. And said the evidence will show that he came to Talladega hitchhiking and he was barely here for two months before he had to kill people. Now the evidence they show fingerprint Evidence from her car, campsite, evidence that we talked about, his detailed confession about exactly what he did, and multiple witness testimony placing him with the victim as well. So just plea. It's pretty bad. They play the tape of him confessing. It is so matter of fact and creepy.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Dude, he went to court about this?

[James Petregallo]

Hell, yeah. He's going to trial.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

They said while at Linda Jarman's apartment, did you kill her? And he said, yes. This was on the tape they showed. They said, how did you kill her? He said, strangulation.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's just matter of fact as fuck. Doesn't care. This doesn't care. The medical examiner here testifies about the autopsy. He said that no sexual activity was shown in Linda Jarman immediately before her death. Some of these women, like the ones in California, some of them have been raped by him as well. Sometimes he rapes and sometimes he doesn't. So no idea what the psychological thing with that is, but sometimes he rapes, sometimes he doesn't. Now when they played this video of all of this, they said that people are getting closer to look at the, you know, the screen. He, though, sat quietly with his head bowed. I'll read from the paper. During the screening, Siebert sat quietly with his head bowed and his tattooed left hand pressed against his forehead. To shield his eyes from the video, he twiddled an ink pen with his right hand. And Linda Jarman's older sister said he didn't have the guts to hold his head up and see what he had done. I think they should have. They should have made him watch it. If the jury was made to watch it, they should have made him watch it, too. Yeah, you can't. That's. There's no. You don't have to do that as a defendant. You just don't have to.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So you don't have to do anything, but it looks bad.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I was going to say it looks. It looks worse on him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And also that's why we're sending him to prison, because we can't make him do anything else but send him to prison. That's all we can make somebody do. So her friend, Linda Jarman's friend, testified, saying her friendly nature is what led to this. And, you know, it's fucking horrible. Her friend said that was the only good thing to come out of this whole thing. The fact that she was just trying to help somebody. A friend. She was just giving a guy a place to stay, being a nice lady. Her mom testifies Mary Jarman. She said her daughter's father died last August. And she said now she's dead, the youngest of her seven children. So she said, my husband and now my youngest kid died. She said she's had to take sleeping medication ever since because she can't sleep and has nightmares and all this shit. She said that she was told the children had been badly beaten and Mrs. Weather's apartment had been torn apart, but her daughter's apartment seemed untouched. She said, I didn't get that. Why was that one torn apart? Mine wasn't. She said they found her in bed and thought at first she was asleep. They said they shook her and said, all right, Linda, it's time to get up now. But she was dead. She also said, you think Talladega would have been the last place something like this would happen to her? She started to school in the first grade. She started to school in the first grade and spent most of her life either in school or working here. So she should have been safe, essentially. And her sister described her. Described Linda as being very happy just before being killed. Yeah, it's not going to be happy after. She said the good side of it all was that she always wanted to make it on her own and wanted a job. A job and her own car. We'd always been very protective of her and hadn't wanted her to get a car or an apartment. But she had what she said she'd always wanted and she was very happy. They didn't want her to live on her own independence. Exactly. So they didn't want her to live on her own. And. Yeah. So the defense, now, the defense's argument is mentally ill. Super mentally ill. He's been abused his whole life in childhood. He's super mentally ill. Cause they don't have any other thing, any other defense. He confessed to all this shit and they played the tape of him doing it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So got. Who the fuck normals does this shit?

[James Petregallo]

That's the thing they said during the proceedings. This is from the newspaper. Siebert, who was not restrained by handcuffs, sat quietly, occasionally sipping coffee, chewing gum or smoking unfiltered cigarettes. It's the 80s. You could do that. At the defense table on Monday, he carried with him Larry McMurphy's book Lonesome Dove. Hey, he's reading Lonesome Dove. This guy, you know, drinking coffee, just drinking coffee, smoking butts, reading Lonesome Dove. He said he wore his light brown hair in a bushy style and carried an Afro comb in his back pocket. He's a white guy, by the way.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He's got a big Pompadour, white man, Afro.

[James Petregallo]

He's got a big, 70s, bushy hair. Type of deal here that carries that. So in closing arguments, the defense attorney admitted that Siebert had killed Linda Garman or Jarman. Deny it. He said he's not innocent of the murder of Linda Jarman. He told them he did it. Okay, so why are we here? He said. But no robbery was involved in the slaying, which is what's necessary for capital murder.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, so they're trying to save his life is all.

[James Petregallo]

That's it, they said. We're not denying force, the ultimate force, was used. But taking the car was not connected in any way with Linda Jarman's death. But it is. You killed her, then took her car.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I needed a car. That's why she died.

[James Petregallo]

That's ex. That was the problem right there. And the district attorney said that he intended to steal the car and decided to kill her. Before he left Talladega, he said, Siebert went into that apartment, drank that Thunderbird, which I think is hilarious. He went in, drank that Thunderbird, and snuffed the life out of her. She never knew it was coming. He used the handicap of that woman to his advantage. He is as bad as a murderer as he is as bad a murderer who ever came into this court. He's as bad a murderer as anyone who's ever come into this court. Verdict comes in here. So the jury deliberates for more than an hour before returning a guilty verdict of capital murder. Guilty of everything. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah. So the sentencing here, they. It's all about his childhood.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, they're saying he's. He's had a terrible childhood. And look at. What the fuck do you expect him to turn into? His dad peed on him. What do you want?

[Jimmy Whitman]

You got choices, man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The prosecution said it's all calculated as fucking. He has zero remorse. What do you. How do you put this guy anywhere except in the electric chair? And so they say, you, sir, may fuck off. Death in the electric chair. In the electric chair. In the electric chair. The old Alabama electric chair. They have a lot of storms. The power goes out once in a while, so you might have to stop halfway through it, pick it up again later. It's not good. It's a bad thing to do. Bad thing for him to be in.

[Jimmy Whitman]

We may get you when we get the power poles back up.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they move the trial to a nearby county for the Sherry Weathers trial.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And, yeah, now, by the way, in between the trials, while this is going on. The families of the murdered people. The victims. Murdered people. We'll just say victims. Families of the victims start to get. Hang out with each other and form a real like a little club here of horrible, you know, shit that's happened to them.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Terrible thing to have in common.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They said after all this happened, we spoke weekly. Linda Jarman's mother said, a lot of times when you're a survivor, you think that something is wrong with you, but then you see others going through the same behavior and you know that there isn't. So he said, it's almost like we could sense when we were needed by each other and one of us would call the other eventually. There came a time when we could laugh about mistakes caused by our grief, like forgetting things. So they were their own little support group. They had essentially here, of course. Yeah. They attended the trials of each other's kids for support, for emotional support and all that kind of thing. The. Linda Jarman's sister said it meant a lot to have them at Linda's trial. So I've come to sympathize with them as well. Well, yeah, why wouldn't you? He said, we're like one big family. We've all had the same hurt, so we can't. We can help each. Before that. I didn't have any sympathetic.

[Jimmy Whitman]

If they didn't show up to her trial, I would be furious with these people.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, fuck her and her dead kids. Yeah. Also attending the trial is Dawn Burchard from Chattanooga who meets the two families. She is the daughter of Beatrice McDougal, the Atlantic City tour guide that was murdered. She joins the group too, and starts hanging out with them. Yeah, she goes to the trial as well. She, she said she attended the trials to give the family support and to see justice done over her mother's death because they say he's already got the death penalty. New Jersey ain't trying him. All the other states said to Alabama, well, I mean, if you want to try him so bad, you spend the fucking money, go for it. Literally. We don't. Yeah, yeah. If he gets out, let us know. She also said she's a staunch advocate of victims rights. She said we need to educate ourselves and the community as to what's left behind. Murder, it's such a contradiction to natural death. The homicide victim dies once, but the, the survivors die a little more each time they remember it. Yes. June 1987 is the weathers family trial here. He's got the same judge too, which is a bad sign. Not good. He Got Lori Valoed here with the same judge. Oh, hey, I know you. Yeah, they said, the DA said it's the same DA too. He said, I probably tried 30 death penalty cases or more, but this one is just the magnitude of it. You got a woman that's deaf that he's intimate with a 4 and a 5 year old who he wakes up from their sleep to strangle. And they have the bodies, they have physical evidence. They have him using the children's identities while he's on the run. And then they have the neighbor, the witness saying what he said, which is imagine how that rings out in court. Imagine that. Come with me so you can join your mother and brother. If you're on a jury, you're just. It's gonna suck the air out of that room.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Can I throw the switch?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I'm saying so lucky nobody strangled him from behind with a pink cloth or something. People want to murder you after saying that. So lot of evidence. The verdict comes in here. Fucking guilty as well, obviously. And the sentencing here. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty. Again.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Again.

[James Petregallo]

Liked it so much. We did it twice. So nice. We did it twice. So there we go. Now they are going to take him to trial for Linda Fay Odom as well. Real fuck it. Line him up because you never know with appeals.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Don't you want to? Yeah, I guess so, but. I guess.

[James Petregallo]

But there's no statute of limitations if the appeal knocks it down. Then take him to trial for that. Yeah. Then you can. Do you have all. It's all physical evidence and confession on video.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Hang on to all this stuff.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Save your money. Basically, from what I understand, I don't think Alabama's the highest funded state. Going out there, I don't hear like.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Their schools and I feel like they're.

[James Petregallo]

In the middle overflowing with money. Yeah. So I feel like they could use the money. So he ends up pleading guilty to this. They offer him a deal. They go, I'll tell you what. You plead guilty, you take life in prison with no parole because it's a non capital case. He didn't steal anything from her, he just dumped her off. So they said okay. They have him dead to rights on fingerprints and everything else. So he said, okay, life in prison for you. So he also confessed to the Beatrice McDougal murder. But he's charged and never tried because he's on death row down there and New Jersey's gonna save a few bucks in case. Why not? Yeah, he faced charges in other states but was never extradited. Or charged mainly because he's on death row. So you're on death row. You're on death row in California, too. You know, they did at least move the murdered victims off the south side serial killer list and moved them over to his column here, Siebert's column. So Alabama, five murders that we were positive of. I'm sorry, six, because Cheryl Evans, too. So that'd be six, right? Linda. Linda. The two Linda's. Linda Fayotom, Linda Jarman, Sherry Weathers, both kids, and Cheryl Evans as six. That's at least six in Alabama. At least three that we know of in California and Nevada between the boyfriend and the two women he killed. And then we know of one in New Jersey. And then he's admitted to others, too. And there's various assaults and kidnappings. I mean, he's left a trail of fucking destruction behind him. We haven't even got to his artwork yet. Hold on a minute.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I can't wait.

[James Petregallo]

That's the craziest part of this whole shit.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Fantastic.

[James Petregallo]

So his death sentences trigger automatic appeals. Of course, here they say his unfair trial evidence related to his past criminal record, including a 79 manslaughter conviction, had been properly. Are improperly introduced during sentencing. And they also challenged the decision to keep the first trial, the Linda Jarman trial, in Talladega county, because of the publicity. So that's one of the automatic appeals that gets rejected. 1989 is his Sherry Weathers appeal. Main point of contention is his Miranda warning that he got the balls on this guy for the. This is the funniest, most ridiculous appeal point of all time. He said that the trial court erred in admitting his statements into evidence because the Miranda warnings given to him in Tennessee were improperly worded.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, they weren't verbatim.

[James Petregallo]

Check this out. Well, he said that the detective who informed him of his Miranda rights said, quote, anything you say can be used against you in court. When the card says anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Yeah, I think we get it. Yeah, I think we understand. And therefore, that his initial statement, anything that he said in Tennessee, and then that, of course translates to anything he then said in Alabama, it should all be thrown out. The whole dominoes, Whole row of dominoes that fell should be thrown out because he didn't say and will. And in a court of law in Tennessee. Yeah, that's. That's because that's when they initially arrested him. But he confessed confessing in Tennessee.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, they're saying he thought that maybe. Oh, just in Tennessee, that's going to be held against me.

[James Petregallo]

That's not what he said, though. Yeah, no, that's not what he said. That would have been another one. What about just in that state? But yeah, he. He just thought that's what it was. So they said. No, they said at the time of his arrest, he was informed of his Miranda rights by the captain of the Talladega Police Department. They said shortly thereafter, upon arrival in the county jail in Tennessee, he was informed of his Miranda rights again and made a decision. He said it was at that time he was informed. Anything you say can be used against you in court. In other words, he had also already heard and will. So they said. Later, upon return to Talladega, he made another incriminating statement. However, prior to this statement, he was informed. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now, if you're from another country, I'm sure if you've seen an American movie of somebody getting arrested, there's this little speech they give them. Yeah, yeah. You know, you have a right to an attorney. You have a right to remain silent. You have a right to this and that you have. Anything you say can. It will be used against you in a law. If you can't afford an attorney, won't be provided for you, all that shit. So his contention was the wording differences between those two render his confession thrown out totally null and void. Now they argue that. He also argues his statements should not have been allowed into evidence because he said they were involuntary, specifically saying they were conditioned on Captain Hearst's alleged promise that he would not be asked to certain questions concerning details of the murders. They said the Captain said, though, that he. That Danny told him that he would admit to the killings, but he would not go into details until he got back to Alabama. And he said, sure, great. Tell us who you killed, then we'll talk more details later. He now claims that this agreement to this condition constituted a promise from the Captain or an inducement for his statement, thereby rendering his statements involuntary. Because you can't give inducements for statements, although they do it all the time. They say, hey, you know, you say something, we can talk to the DA for you, maybe help you out there. A whole confession is all inducement. So that's bullshit, though. He said they attempted to transform Captain Hearst's actions into a promise of benefit or inducement. And it's readily apparent from the testimony that this was simply a condition placed by the defendant on the extent of his confession at the time, Captain Hearst neither promised appellant anything nor induced him in any way. He was merely acknowledging the terms which the appellant had unilaterally imposed. Appellant had the right to remain silent. He also had a right to limit. Any statement which he chose to make could have shut the fuck up at any time. Captain Hearst was only honoring this right. Any benefit which may have occurred from this agreement was solicited freely and voluntarily by the appellant himself, thus failing to render his confession involuntary. So the trial court says, keep on fucking off, Mr. Death Penalty 89 is the Linda Jarman appeal. This is based a lot on juror selection. Oh, little back and forth between the defense. No, no, no, no. Things they said beforehand. A little back and forth here. From vadir of the jury members, the defense counsel said, you said earlier you think he's probably. And juror Betty Chandler interrupted and said, well, I shouldn't have said that because I think I could be fair. Because earlier she had said, I think he's probably guilty is what she said. Yeah, she said, I think I could be fair. I mean, you know how you read and you think guilty? I never questioned it, but I think I could be fair. So, I mean, I read it in the paper, so I thought guilty, but if you show me evidence, I think I can, you know. So they said, okay, you said a minute ago, I believe the question was. And I might be mistaken, but I believe it was. You think that. Did you think the defendant was probably guilty or probably innocent? Which one were you leaning toward there a little bit? And she said, I was thinking guilty. And he said, the defensive counsel said, probably guilty. Okay. Do you know of any reason why you couldn't give the defendant a fair trial? And she said, no, sir. They said, do you think you could put that out of your mind, even though today or at some time in the past, you thought he was guilty? She said, yes, sir. So the next juror problem, they said, based on this, is the defense counsel talking to the juror at the time, at the trial. Based on what you saw or read or what you discussed with somebody, what do you think happened? What do you think about it? This juror said, well, I think it was a terrible thing. I think it was a terrible thing. And the defense counsel said, what is so bad? Oh, I don't know. Dead children.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What do you think so bad?

[James Petregallo]

The juror said, well, with the children part of it, because I've got two small children at home. There you go. So the defense counsel said, so you've heard the defendant was charged with killing some children. And he said, yes. They said, based on that, would you have a hard time sitting as a juror? And he said, probably so. And they said, and it would be hard to give the defendant a fair trial based on what you've heard and what you know. And he said, probably so. And the defense counsel said, I believe I'll challenge Mrs. Smith, who is this person? And they let her be a fucking. They let her be a juror based on the prosecutor saying, I would like to ask a question. He said, Mrs. Smith, we are now trying any case. We're now trying any case today by the State of Alabama vs Daniel Siebert for the death of Linda Ann Jarman. She was a deaf lady that lived here in the city of Talladega. Could you put any knowledge of what you had seen, heard, read about, or anything else out of your mind and render a verdict in this case and the case alone based on the evidence that comes to you from the witness stand and exhibits you are not that are allowed into evidence? Can you do that? She said, yes, sir. So she said, I can't be fair to him. But the prosecutor reworded it, and then she said, yeah, I guess so. And this happens all the time.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, I can be here. I can be up here that way. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Nowadays, the judges would rather just. If a juror is acting any. They don't want them there, fuck off, then. They don't need that shit because that's just appeal points you're gonna end up with. So now they want all the jurors to be none of that shit. So they said, you know, you can put anything out of your mind. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. They said, so the fact that the defense counsel said, so the fact that you have heard of him being charged with committing other crimes, that wouldn't affect the way you rule? And she said, I don't think so. So, yeah, also the fact that during the. I guess the prosecutor, during the trial asked the police officer a question who testified during the manslaughter conviction. This is a Las Vegas cop. They brought him in to testify in Alabama. And they said, how did he die? And the cop said, multiple stab wounds. They said, how many multiple stab wounds? And he said, total wounds. We're not sure. We stopped at 29. They gave up after 29. It might be 100. They just gave up. They're like, at 29. So then the defense counsel asked, weren't a number of those wounds on the victim's legs and he said they were throughout his body. And they said, and there was testimony at the trial that Mr. Siebert was lying on the ground and the victim was standing when some of these wounds were inflicted. Is that correct? And he said, yes. And they said, when there's any testimonies about advances being made toward the defendant, wasn't there. And so that's how that went. They said, how is the question was how was the testimony and evidence as to how the defendant was dressed at the time? Wasn't he naked at that time? He put the stab wounds in him him. Wasn't that evidence? And the detective said, I'm not positive, but it sure puts a picture in the jury's mind.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Sure does. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They said, I believe he fled the scene and there was some time getting him into custody, wasn't he? And he said, yes, sir. So there you go. This denied, also denied. Now 1990, it's both affirmed by the Alabama. Both convictions of the death penalties are confirmed by the Alabama Supreme Court. 1999 post conviction relief was denied and federal habeas petitions were dismissed in 2001. His appeal points after this are ineffective counsel, juror misconduct, prosecutorial misconduct, mental illness. He also sues over prison conditions, food quality, medical care, and the method he'll ultimately be executed with. The way he's talking about, everything's dismissed. Okay, so in prison, he's sitting on death row, inmate number 00Z4 75, at the Holman Correctional Facility. In prison, he is described as calm and almost meek at times. Nothing like he was before. Reporters who interview him noted his ability to appear charming and polite even as he discussed the heinous crimes which he was convicted for. So he's a mess. He continues to draw constantly, but now he used to draw all sorts of things. Landscape things, different things, pictures. He draws pretty much two dogs. One dog going one way, one dog going the other way. This guy's saying, what do you want from me? So now all he draws is women in, like, bondage outfits, but, like, half of them are, like, real dominant women. Violent sexual scenarios, including group sex and all this weird shit and depictions of control and domination that we'll talk about. He sells this shit online. Later, he develops a bunch of pen pals. He has so many women absolutely devoted to him, sending him money for commissary, maintaining websites about his case and his art. And how can this wonderfully talented artist possibly be a murdering psychopath? Yeah, the belly of the beast thing. Like that guy, the guy who wrote that book and got out of Jail and then killed a waiter almost immediately for fucking not putting his silverware straight or some shit. So he's doing well in there with all that. So from prison, he can manipulate people with his artwork. They go, he's got to be so. He's so gifted. So he gives his artwork to other people who sell it through websites. In the early 2000s, there's a small group of pen pals that do this. All women, obviously, because that's who he finds easiest to snow for him. So they are. These people don't give a shit about his crimes. Nothing. They just see. They see his art. Somebody put this in. It's a great quote. They see his art as a window into a misunderstood soul.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

They're like, I can see through the color use of this and that and sketches what's going on in there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

But sketch of the dominatrix.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but psychologists all said it was just more manipulation. That's all it is. It's just how he can manipulate. Otherwise, he looks like a monster. They said his charm allows him to blend into communities, which is how he did this all in the first place in his art. Now it presents him as a tortured artist rather than this murderer. This one psychologist said the duality murders mirrors other charismatic serial killers, especially like a Ted Bundy who used his skills in the same way to endear himself to people and then did what he wanted to do completely, remorselessly, same way. So problem is, his artwork is very controversial among the victims. Advocate groups should be. They're like, you know, how does he get to profit and get attention from his fucking drawings? Which is fair. Yeah. So it's crazy. Even Esther Brown from Project Hope to. From Project Hope to abolish the death penalty. So someone who's trying to get him off death row said that she expressed disgust that Siebert's art gave him a platform. Like, I don't want to kill him, but I also don't want him to be out there. I just don't want people to be murdered with my tax dollars. That's all you know, which is understandable. So he becomes the subject of fascination. He produces tons of drawings and portraits. I mean, a lot. He's really prolific. Some of his artworks, which are really weird. One has, like, a woman holding a severed head. Real weird. One of his own drawings depicting his own decapitated head was given to a female police detective who played a role in gathering evidence against him. Here you go, sweetheart. There you go. That's a little something for you to take home. You Know what I mean? That's for the kids. Put it on the fridge, will you? It's for the kids.

[Jimmy Whitman]

So here's what you did to me.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. She ended up displaying it on her office wall. She put it up and was like. Really serial killer. Well, yeah. And the detectives. That's a, that's a fucking conversation piece in a police station. Yeah, that's another sick fuck that killed all those people. He drew that for me. So yeah, 2007, the death penalty is moving right along and he's supposed to be executed in 2007. Problem is in May of 2007 he developed severe jaundice and he's diagnosed with hepatitis c. Uh oh. July 12, 2007, a biopsy reveals he has terminal inoperable pancreatic cancer.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh shit.

[James Petregallo]

He's got Swayze disease.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, it's coming for him. That's fast.

[James Petregallo]

Not good. Yeah, that is fast as fuck. And that's fast if you're rich and not in prison. So imagine how fast it is if you're in fucking prison. They don't let you cardio. Yeah, yeah, with abs and shit. So July 19th, he files an amended lawsuit. His argument is the three drug lethal injection protocol. Cuz that's what they're doing again in Alabama down there, combined with his medical conditions would constitute cruel and unusual punishment. There's the same time that this drug mixture is also being challenged in other states as well. So that's on there. His lawyers argue execution would be cruel and unusual punishment because the cancer drugs would interact with the lethal injection drugs causing excessive pain. A board certified oncologist, Dr. Jimmy H. Harvey and I.E. jimmy said he has a life expectancy of less than 90 days. He has severe muscle wasting, he needs a feeding tube, he has chronic nausea, he has a tumor blocking his upper gastrointestinal tract tract and has a great likelihood of regurgitation during execution which. And a very compromised venous access. So his veins aren't good either. So like, I don't know what you want to do with this guy, but unless you put a pillow over his face, it's not going to work.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It's almost over anyway. It sounds like then while all this.

[James Petregallo]

Is going on, he's investigated regarding a pornography case involving one of his correspondents. Oh, he isn't charged, but his pen pal is convicted of multiple sex crimes related to the materials they exchanged. What do you think that was about? Kids probably. I would assume.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yup. Piece of shit. So he files this lawsuit against Alabama's lethal injection protocol, sodium Thiopental for anesthesia, pancuronium bromide as a paralytic, and potassium chloride to stop the heart. So he argues that all his conditions mean you'll have failed anesthesia. Basically. So. October 3, 2007, the district court allows a claim to litigate, but denies a preliminary injunction. But they're going to look at it. Then he has his. His execution is stayed. There's an emergency motion for a preliminary injunction and that's denied. But then it ends up getting saved, stayed by the 11th Circuit intervention. A three judge panel says that they have to wait a minute to execute him. Or then they say you don't have to wait. Then the next day, on October 25th, he's supposed to be executed, but files another one and they end up maintaining the stay so they can't execute him right away. The governor said his crimes were monstrous, brutal and ghastly when asked if he would pardon him. So November 5th, that was vacated and remanded at the to the panel, which again reversed the denial, remanding for full consideration as the claim. So it's a huge fucking mess anyway. Execution day comes around and it stayed. The execution stayed again. That Esther Brown, who hates him from the project to hope to abolish the death penalty, said, I find it unbelievable that Alabama justice demands we strap a dying man to the gurney. Literally wait an hour, he'll probably die.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So there's all sorts of shit getting filed. Alabama files emergency petitions to overturn the stay. It's a fucking mess. The state said that he's using his illness to delay justice. Families deserve closure. Modifications to the protocol addressed any concerns. His crimes warrant no mercy, regardless of his health. The governor said, I would in essence be commuting his sentence to life in prison. And that's not a sentence he was given by a jury. His crimes are monstrous, brutal and ghastly. So then the stay is lifted. Okay, so he's gonna be allowed to do it. They say that they have beyond a reasonable degree of medical certainty that more than 99.99999999% of the population would be unconscious. So don't worry about it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

April 22, 2008, as they're preparing the death chamber for him at 1:35pm I think he's getting executed in like three days. He fucking dies, damn it. Who cares? He's dead either way. What's the difference? This is way worse. Yeah, this is so much worse. Okay. If you hated somebody, if you are sick, hated them and you said, how would you like them to die. Would you like them to feel great and then be lethal injected? Or would you like them to get pancreatic cancer, rot from the inside and spend the last month of your life wasting away attached to a feeding tube?

[Jimmy Whitman]

If you've never. If you've never seen someone die of cancer.

[James Petregallo]

Horrible.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It is the worst thing that is possible. I guarantee that State sponsored death is so much more peaceful.

[James Petregallo]

It probably is. This is horrible. So I don't understand. Some of the families are mad. I don't get it.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is that the detective justice?

[James Petregallo]

The detective said, I think we felt cheated. Of what? He's dead. You watched him wither away and die. That's gotta feel great. I think, you know, that's. Hey, good. Fuck this. Look at me. Looks terrible. Awesome. Fuck him. So the reactions overall, the whole thing. The detective, Eugene Jackson was there from the discovery of everybody said, I think about those two little boys and I always will. And the other detective said, when you see something like that, you can't help but think about your own child. They still attend memorial services and they check on the family members. They said they're still keeping in touch with people. They feel bad now. His artwork is for sale now. It's all over the fucking Internet. Okay, well, here's one that's particularly odd.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, it's colorful. All right.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you got a titty lady back here.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Some big city. That is a incredibly well done.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow. The demon is even scary.

[James Petregallo]

He'd be great at skateboard graphics.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, serial killers need love too.

[James Petregallo]

It's he. It's him. It says he's drinking a can of killer beer he's got. And he looks like a little like almost like a gremlin he's got going on. Basically the shirt is serial killers need love too. And behind him that's kind of like over a hill. And behind him is this giant naked woman with huge boobs and ass holding a grim reaper's sight.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, her.

[James Petregallo]

Looks like she's got real hard.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Very interesting titty. It's big. Everything's big on it.

[James Petregallo]

Look at the way she's looking.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, she's horny.

[James Petregallo]

Like horny. She's got a scythe in her hand. She's ready to. She's going to go chop this guy's head off.

[Jimmy Whitman]

You think that's what she's doing? She thinks she's hunting him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is his zipper down? What is that?

[James Petregallo]

No, it's just the wager. Yeah. So yeah, I think she's behind him looking to kill him. I think she popped up from behind a hill behind him, Right. And he's sitting there drinking a beer, staring off. Because there's no acknowledgment of the killer guy seeing her. It's only her seeing him. So I think that's what it means. I'm not an artist. Oh, and he's smoking a joint or something here, too. A cigarette.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Got a little pre roll.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, here is one.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Super. Not. Oh, okay. All right.

[James Petregallo]

This is. Sorry, I just made some interference there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is a giant. Like a. Like a. Like a mythology. Man with a shield. Like a he man, basically, with woman on her knees by his side, wearing only. Everybody's only wearing, like, a little loincloth type thing. But she's pointing at something that he's looking at.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, like, she's gonna watch over there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Save me.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, go get that one. This is $350, by the way.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Because it's signed by him. Here's one that you don't need a lot of interpretation for. It's a chick from behind spreading her asshole so you can see her whole palm with her whole palm. And she's making a face like. Yeah, give it to me. So it's all. They're all like pencil sketches. Basically. Here is a woman licking another woman's nipple. Yeah, that's too. But the nipple has, like, tape on it. But her tongue is under the tape. That's gotta mean something. That's only $60. Okay, here. This looks like a kid's drawing.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I think that was just censored for the Internet, James.

[James Petregallo]

No, all the other ones have nipples and tits and pussies and shit. Wait till you see them. I think it's. Or it might be. Who knows if they got them from somewhere else, but. But this is like a woman riding a giant strong horse looking. She has a Xena Warrior Princess outfit on, and she's holding victoriously a bow up in the air like she just shot killed somebody.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Did you watch Heavy Metal? That reminds me of Heavy Metal.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what it looks like. You're absolutely right. That's 120 bucks. And there's this. This is fucking weird. Boy, this is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Really? Naughty tree. Like a twisted up tree. Interesting.

[James Petregallo]

It's a woman in a bikini and she's turned back toward you to look. She's holding, like a. I guess her clothes, a robe or something. There's a twisted tree next to her. And there is a little. Look at the face.

[Jimmy Whitman]

A Lynx that has a human face.

[James Petregallo]

A lynx with his face, I think is what it is. It's a lynx. It's. It's almost like wizard of Oz kind of looking.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Where the wild things are.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there you go. Where the wild things are. 350 bucks for that. Here is just a horse.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. Running through the canyon.

[James Petregallo]

Running through canyon with like hills in the background, but there's little lumpy rocks and I think maybe there's bodies in there or something.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Or something in there. Yep.

[James Petregallo]

$325 for that. These are 16. 16 by 20 inch too. They're big. Bigger. Yeah. That's a 325. These are all signed by him. So that's $325. You want that? Here's another big giant like Clydesdale looking horse with a very bedazzled saddle and everything and bridle and everything. And looks. It looks like Foxy Brown in a bikini next to him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

It looks like him as a woman.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, kind of, but it looks like Foxy Brown. Like that kind of pose, like on the COVID of a movie poster. But like 70s style, like total foxy because a big fro. 325 bucks for that. This very strange picture. It's a woman who looks real muscular and like you could almost see inside of her. See, it's like she's like an X ray. You can like see her like she's wearing like a muscle suit. Real weird. And half her face is totally in shadows. She looks like a demon or something. Here is a woman with big wings, like butterfly wings.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

A nipple hanging out. There's a nipple and there's tops of nipples there. She looks like almost like a goddess drawing. Almost something like that winged female. That's $225. Daniel Siebert's mustard and mayo packets for $20.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

These are his mustard and mayo packets from April of 2006.

[Jimmy Whitman]

What the hell is that?

[James Petregallo]

Someone. Someone is selling that for $20. His mustard and mayonnaise packet here is him doing whatever the fuck this is.

[Jimmy Whitman]

That's that same one with the.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's the one from before. Yeah. Here is another one on the river.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, Tina.

[James Petregallo]

It's like kind of a. Kind of a goddessy looking picture. Woman in her underwear, no top, but like a cape that goes across her tits so they're not there. It's a watercolor. That one. That is. What is that? 350 bucks. Here's another version of the woman and the lynx. It's very similar, except that looks like a Black woman. I believe that's $140. You can get a handwritten letter from him.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Wow. He had great penmanship.

[James Petregallo]

He's an artist.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he writes about his son, saying he will be arrested and taken to the county jail on a rape abduction charge with numerous others charges attached. That's not exactly what I wanted to hear out of. None of blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's all about his son being in jail and basically Damien and basically asking if you can kind of keep an eye on my son. Basically if you can talk to him, if you can do whatever, because I can't do shit for him from here. The whole letter is very interesting. I just don't have time to read it. Then we get into these.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy. He's allowed to draw.

[James Petregallo]

To draw anything you want.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

There is.

[Jimmy Whitman]

He loves blowjobs.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. There is one where the guy is bending over and he's got his dick sticking out backwards and a woman sucking it. That's impossible. Then sucking it from the front. Then there's a money shot in the mouth over here and that. He does that a few times.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, he loves.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this. There's one. Look at this. The dick goes through into her mouth, through her cheek and comes on somebody else's face.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, well. And there's still jizz dripping down her chin.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And a puddle under this one, too. Then there's this. This is like a, like kind of a woman in, like, Tracy. She's got like the high, you know, stockings and like, you know, like a sexy outfit, but also like a floppy, like, gardening hat. And she's watering her flowers, which is strange. Then you have like demon woman here.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Impressive. He's getting better.

[James Petregallo]

But look, he's. She's over. Is that a dead woman? I think it's a dead woman. It's a dead naked woman bent over, face down, ass up, face down, ass up, eyes closed and everything. Then you got this. A guy licking some chick's shoe while he plows her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

I don't like kinky ones.

[James Petregallo]

No, a threesome thing or some guy sucking a dick while he's fingering somebody else here. And there's always things dripping out of the woman, by the way. Always. And all of these, they all squirt dripping. Here's another one of just a doggy style tableau, but it's actually a threesome because there's a woman under there licking, see? So there's that everybody fucking. Another one of like dirty bonded shit. A woman, like, looking at another Woman who's on a hill looking like a warrior. More fucking scenes. This is two people going down on one chick. And like there's a reverse cowgirl we got going on there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Man, he missed out on porn. He would. Oh, this is everything now. It's the same scene every time.

[James Petregallo]

On the bottom it says, images from Kevin Taylor's girl. Yeah, I don't know what that means. Here's another one of just all blow jobs. It says ump shit up on this one for some reason, as if they're having a threesome of the girl is riding a guy while another girl is spreading her asshole to lick it. And that's a jizz covered woman there. Now this one down here has two jizzing cocks on her.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, that was. It's just pencil drawing, so.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

How he gets so much detail in. In everything. He's got hair, he's got. That's really good drawing.

[James Petregallo]

It's just got an orgy over here going on. Got this looks like. This is a wild picture. This looks like Brian Adams and Britney Spears together, like at the height of both of their. Like him in the mid-80s and her in the late 90s. That's what this looks like. He looks like Keith kind of. Yeah, yeah. With a guitar right there.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. He drew Keef.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. But there's a guitar, which makes me think of Bryan Adams because it looks like him more. If he had anything else, I would call him Keef. If he had like woodworking tools, he'd be like, it's Keef. So that was then. Here's another orgy scene, so you get the picture.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah, it's a lot of dick and.

[James Petregallo]

Pussy warriors and orgies. And here's another two women, a lot of, like, domination, but the cheapest one you could find are $75 and they're 8x11 unframed graphite on.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Why is that?

[James Petregallo]

Don't know. There's ones that are 300 bucks, 150 bucks. Don't know what the fuck's going on, but very high. He's dead, so fuck them. There you go. That's Talladega, Alabama. Holy shit. Very quick. I'll get through the end here. Definitely had to shut up and give me murder.com. get your tickets for Seattle in October. There's some available for that. Everything else is just about sold out. For those, get your merchandise there as well. Follow us on social media. Small Town Murder on Instagram at. Yes. No. Yeah. At Small Town Murder on Instagram. At Small Town Pot on Facebook. That's where we are. So there's that. We have patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of your bonus materials. Come get them, everybody. I'm telling you, anybody, $5 a month or above, you're gonna get everything. Our whole back catalog. New ones every other week. And you get everything ad free. It's a shitload this week, which you're gonna get for crime and sports, which you have access to athletes fucking up and going broke even though they had tens of millions of dollars. Then part two for small town murder of Ted Bundy, quote unquote, helping find the Green River Killer, Right? Cause that's some crazy shit. That's patreon.com crimeandsports like I said, ad free for all three shows. And you get a shout out. When does that shout out come? Right fucking now. Jimmy hit me with the names of the best goddamn people in the world who would never rape, kill us, and then draw pictures of it. Jimmy, hit me with him right now.

[Jimmy Whitman]

This week's executive producers are. Gary Howard, Dorothy Katz, Aaron Webb. We're too alike, my man. And I'm so sorry. I hope you're hanging in there. You're the best and I love you. And Jamie Anthony. Thank you all so much for being a part of this. It means the most to us. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Jessica Mackiewicz. That's a sandwich of Mac. Yeah, that's gross.

[James Petregallo]

McDonald's. The Mackowich. It's a dead clown on a bun.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Happy hour in Owensville, Missouri this week. Good for you. Janice Hill. Kathy Fair. Pelicione Pelicioni. Jillian Copenhagers. Dolan Harrington. Amol Cowerkor. Annie Johnson. Come area. Cameria Collins, Megan Clark. Nick Mick Brandy, PhD. Jeremy Sanderson. Ty with no last name. MX Stacy. I imagine that's motocross Stacy. Maybe not. No name. Somebody with no name. Lydia with no last name. Brianna McManus. Chris Templeton. Marco with no last name. Sandra Sheldon. Stacy Salai. Salias Psilocylus. Helen Psilocybin.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you for making me trip.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Helena. SVE Dang. Sv Dang. Rachel Spiller. Amy Nichols. Zanti with no last name. Haley Shrank. Carl Zubowski. David Bakabo. Bakabobo. Baka Bacobo. Tammy. Tammy. Tammy. What is this tarney? Is that Tammy? Tammy. Sander Halsey with no last name. Cece with no last name. Marguerite Puentha McGowan. Jenny Bean, Melbourne 99. Patty Taylor, Marie Yarborough, Carrie Lee DeHart, PZ. What is this. Jennifer. Why did I do two ends? One N, two F. Nice. Jennifer Johnston. Bradley Thors. Thorne. Oh, Thompson. There it is. Lynette Placido. Lendra Devereaud. Andrew Thomas. I hope not. Kendra Levy. Desmond with no last name. Karen Snook. Ryan Noonan. Blaine Cluten. Trevor Robinson. Nick Juts. Mick and Cathy. Eric with no last name. Nicole Jennings. G. Wayne. Eric Macbeth. Carol with no last name. Brad Big Rig. Tim C. De Haven. Vicky G. Deborah Anderson. Michaela Sutherland. Jennifer Bain. 1. Quinn's with no last name. Skyler Littlefield. Dre Thomas. Dre Thomas. Nope, that's Torres. God fucking damn.

[James Petregallo]

Damn names.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Hainsy, I think. Hey, hey. Is Knee Hayes. Knee Hayes. New York, maybe? Or is it hazy? All right. Laura with no last name. Ems. Nick at night. The State Farm guy. I don't know which one. Joel Perry. Travis with no last name. Don white. Babulous. Oh. Babylon 35. Chris Hicks. Francesca with no last name. Ian Crystal. Crystal, perhaps. Dustin Dentier. Kara Muir. Robert Mafrey. Jennifer Jones. Probably not that. Jenny Fatimas07. Crystal Cannon. Karen Palmer. Michael Lanigan. David Nichols. Nichols. A. With no last name. A. The letter A. This show brought to you by. Letter A. Marty with no last name. Elizabeth Massad. Jeremy Radek. Danielle Gallo. Galcallo with a C. No, with the G. Jamie.

[James Petregallo]

Rord.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Vet.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Jaime perhaps. Mira Boulding. Karen Wells. Skyler Quazo. DK Metcalf. Christy Hunter. Nanani. Nanami. Alan McRae. Sonny Provenzano. Beth Freeman. I can do those quick now. Don White. Ashley Morse. Got that Morse code money. Mackenzie Henson. Thomas Hajatna. Brianne with no last name. Spencer Altoff. Helen Downey. Yep. Courtney Santos. Rhonda Claussen. Misty spells Dash with no last name. David Sutton. Mel B. Yabos. Yabos McGee. I betcha. Jonathan West. Why was this? What you eating? What you been eating? All right. Heidi Orme. Amy McGuire. Beth Miller. Savannah Dolan. Kristen Seeley. Alexandria G. Ann Marie Polinski. Terry McElrath. Katie Lockhart. Mantle Manol. Perhaps James Etie. Mike Noonan. Jay Petro. I can't do them as well as I thought. Leanne? No, that's Lena. No, that's Leah. Leah Snyder. Russell Stewart. Gian Marie. Joe and Mary. Maybe it's Jeannie. All right. J.C. german. No. G, J, E, A, N, N, E. Gene. Could be. Otherwise, it's two N's.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it might be GN I don't know. Possible.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Cheyenne Bruns, S and a. The letters S.A. julie.

[James Petregallo]

Sexaholics Anonymous.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Yeah. Or just a Mexican guy. My essay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Waraxa Hayden Burns. Leslie with no last name. Jeremiah Sniffing Gross. Nicole with no last name Edgar. Edgar Bradley. Susie Fade. Julie Coates. Jackson. Latasha Campbell. Laura with no last name. Alex C. Tiff with no last name. Marianne Menina. Timothy Ruiz. Ruiz. Ruiz Brown. James Larkin. Christine France. Outsider with no last name. Jessica Knight. David Borges Borg. Hannah would no last name. Andre Black, Jennifer Baran. Todd Prince. Got that tennis brand money. Jerrianna Reardon. Barbara Cope.

[James Petregallo]

Yellow fuzzy ball money.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Jeremy Renner's last sip of the soda in the town. That is hilarious because I've never mentioned it nor discussed it with anybody, but that's the most disgusting sip of soda in any movie ever. He's getting shot at by cops. He grabs a soda out of the trash can, takes the biggest pull you've ever seen from a soda that's not yours, the straw and everything, and then throws it down and gets up and continues a battle with the police. He doesn't care that whatever that's gonna give him because he's about to die and he knows it. I think.

[James Petregallo]

Well, yeah, I don't think that disease.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Is really at that point. He just wants a sip of Coke.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. It's so gross. Take hepatitis. If he has.

[Jimmy Whitman]

And he certainly got it. He was teeming with it when he got blasted in the face. Nick Blake, Bodie Marshall, Summer Monstera, Michelle Cox, Cody Lambert, Connor Crawford, and every person who patrons this show. You're the best. And thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody, for all that you do for us. Everything, every day. We really, really appreciate you and hope this wasn't too disturbing. It'll be different next week. Don't worry. So it's all good. Keep coming back and seeing us. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and givememurder.com has everything you need. That said, everybody, until next week, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whitman]

Bye.