The Deadly Grandma & The Doppelgänger - Austin, Arkansas

Summary

Small Town Murder Express: The Deadly Grandma & The Doppelgänger – Austin, Arkansas

Podcast: Small Town Murder
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Episode Date: January 10, 2026
Episode Topic: Two strange and deadly cases from small-town Arkansas: the murder conviction of "Deadly Grandma" Barbara Jo Still, and the bizarre “doppelgänger defense” of Jimmy Don Wooten.

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Episode Overview

In this fast-paced “Express” episode, James and Jimmie hilariously dig into two true crime tales from Arkansas. First, they unravel the story of Barbara Jo Still, a supposedly sweet grandma with a deadly secret. Then, they recount the wild case of Jimmy Don Wooten, whose defense after a shooting spree is one of the dumbest (and oddly memorable) on record. Along the way, the hosts riff on small town living, ludicrous festival fare, and the classic quirkiness of rural criminality, delivering both detailed research and signature snark.

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Arkansas and Austin: Small Town Snapshot

• Timestamps: 03:05–10:06
• Quick intro to Austin, Arkansas: a leafy, growing Little Rock suburb with 3,486 people, median income above national average ($78k), but low home values ($201k).
• Quirky local history: “The city was settled in 1872, when the railroad built tracks about a mile southeast of old Austin… They dragged buildings over a mile!” (A, 05:12)
• Limited amenities, but a “small town feel.”
• Amusing events include the Ozark Roots Dulcimer Festival and the Arkansas State Dulcimer Championships – “It looks like a small boat they put strings across.” (B, 07:29)
• Satirization of tourist suggestions: “You wanna go to Dry Creek? Dry Creek sounds great.” (A, 10:02)

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Case One: The Deadly Grandma – Barbara Jo Still

Background & Suspicious Circumstances

• Timestamps: 10:09–26:00

• Introduction to Barbara Jo Basinger/Still, born 1933. Married first to J.W. Still, military man, had three kids.

• In 1979, J.W. Still is found dead of a gunshot: ruled suicide.

  • “I’ll give you one partner committing suicide. Any more than that, it’s your fault.” (A, 24:06)

• By 1984, Barbara is living with her second partner, Floyd Gibson Jr.

Floyd’s Disappearance (1986)

• Floyd’s sister can’t reach him; Barbara Jo says he left with $14,000 cash and two suitcases, but didn’t take his truck (A, 17:08).
• She drains $64,000 from their joint account over 3 months and trades his truck for a new one.

Investigation Intensifies

• Neighbors notice constant fires in Barbara's yard—she says it's an “old septic tank.”
  • “She just had fires going constantly, for over a month. Eternal flame.” (A, 19:26)
• Favorite quilt of hers suddenly “stolen”: “That’s a damn nice quilt… There’s quilt thieves out there.” (A/B, 20:29-20:33)
• Police dig under a fabricated shed and find…the missing quilt – with Floyd’s body inside. (A, 21:38)
  • “[Dead] Floyd, wrapped up in her prize clothes, Floyd.” (A, 21:48)

Barbara Jo’s Story Evolves

• Initially claims Floyd skipped town, then changes her tune: he threatened her, then “shot himself”; she buries him in the yard–to “keep him close.” (A, 25:48)
  • “She wrapped the body up in this quilt… in the good quilt…put it in her garbage.” (A/B, 24:52–24:58)
  • “[Felt she needed to bury him there because] my first husband had been taken from me and buried somewhere I couldn’t visit.” (A, 25:58)
• Medical examiner: wound inconsistent with suicide; also, the gun she turned in was not the murder weapon. (A, 31:25)

Trial & Conviction

• Motive: Floyd gave her power of attorney 2 weeks before vanishing. She drained ~$80k after his death.
• Jury deliberates less than two hours: Guilty of First Degree Murder (A, 36:02).
  • “The judge says, you, grandma, may fuck off. Life in prison.” (A, 36:34)

Aftermath and Appeals

• Multiple failed appeals (1987–2020), including claims of ineffective counsel and lack of physical murder weapon.
• As of the episode, Barbara Jo Still—now pushing 90—is still behind bars in Arkansas. (A, 40:59)

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Case Two: The Doppelgänger Defense – Jimmy Don Wooten

The Shooting at Long Pool Recreation Area

• Timestamps: 42:27–56:01

• August 5, 1994: David Lasalle, cousin Henry Porter (49), and Henry’s daughter Molly (18) hiking near Long Pool area.

• repeatedly encounter “ATV Man” (eventually, Jimmy Don Wooten).

• ATV Man acts agitated, eventually ambushes the trio with gunfire:

  • Lasalle fatally shot in the head.
  • Henry Porter shot multiple times (shoulder, face, forearm) but survives, protects his daughter.
  • Molly escapes unharmed, hides under a rock.

The Idiotic Defense

• An hour later, Jimmy Don Wooten goes to police and reports his ATV stolen:
  • Says he was shot at by a man who “looked exactly like me. It was like looking in a mirror.” (A, 55:14)
• Cops find his ATV and pistol (the murder weapon) with him.
  • Excuse: “Oh, yeah, I found it again later.” (A, 57:01)
• Quoted by James: “His story is, ‘my doppelgänger is running around the woods stealing from me and killing people.’” (A, 55:21)
• Clothes match victims’ descriptions: he was wearing swim trunks at the time.

Courtroom & Sentencing

• Picked out of a lineup by survivors.
• Defense pleads “it was another guy who looks identical”; prosecution and jury are not convinced.
• Convicted of capital murder and more; sentenced to death by lethal injection. (A, 78:41)

Legal Saga

• Minimal mitigation effort by his attorney (“His lawyer told the jury, ‘He’s got no criminal record, he’s a good worker…’” A, 77:20)
• 2020: Death sentence is overturned due to ineffective counsel (had a hilariously terrible lawyer), commuted to life without parole.
• Wooten’s background: severe poverty, abusive upbringing, lifelong learning disabilities.
• Hosts on his defense: “I got the perfect crime—you just say some guy looked just like me did it. That’s how you get it.” (A, 67:53)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

Small Town Laughs

• “This is what he does: his all-dulcimer set. You can’t escape Ludacris.” (A, 08:58)
• “Anything you bury in the yard looks suspicious. Anything.” (A, 42:14)
• “Chef Boyardee—why are you burying it?” (A, 42:27)

On Crime and Excuses

• “I’ll give you one partner committing suicide. Any more than that, it’s your fault.” (A, 24:11)
• “Her story is shitty. Your lawyer should have told you to shut the fuck up.” (A, 38:34)
• “He did all my police work. Yeah.” (B, 57:06)
• “That’s the hillbilly ‘Now yous can’t leave.’” (A, 50:26)
• Regarding the defense: “Best story, ‘duffel bagger’ [doppelgänger].” (B, 75:09)
• “They didn’t say, ‘fuck you, slow down with your ATV.’ There was never a word exchanged other than cordial talking...None of this makes sense.” (A, 71:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------------|----------------| | Introduction & Town Profile | 00:15–10:06 | | Barbara Jo Still’s story | 10:09–41:30 | | “Stolen Quilt” story | 20:18–21:42 | | Investigation & Discovery | 17:44–25:48 | | Medical Examiner’s Findings | 31:25–33:00 | | Trial/Conviction/Appeals | 35:25–40:59 | | Jimmy Don Wooten’s shooting rampage | 42:27–56:01 | | Doppelgänger Defense | 54:33–58:03 | | Courtroom & Sentencing | 73:29–78:42 | | Hosts’ Final Thoughts | 82:30–end |

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Hosts’ Signature Tone & Humor

• Casual, irreverent, and frequently self-deprecating.
• Lampooning small town quirks and outrageous criminal excuses.
• Comedic, but also well-researched and clear about the tragic elements of these cases.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

If you missed the episode, you’ll hear two truly astonishing Arkansas murder cases, each upended by the logic-defying actions of alleged criminals. From the fires and quilts of a deadly grandmother to a man blaming his “evil twin” for murder, the cases are as dark as they are bizarre. The hosts expertly mix gallows humor, sharp research, and local flavor—making even the most absurd crime stories both informative and gut-busting.

Don’t miss:

• The reveal of the missing quilt
• The all-time dumbest criminal excuse (the “doppelgänger defense”)
• Classic small town festival tangents (“Ludacris on dulcimer!”)
• A parade of quotes and asides on the absurdity of crime in rural America

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Final Word

James: “There you go. Three-named Arkansas murderers in one hour for you.” (A, 82:30)
Jimmie: “That lawyer was right about one thing, the only thing that makes sense.” (B, 82:39)

For more, visit shutupandgivememurder.com!

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[End of Express Summary]

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[B]

Yay. And choo choo.

[A]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host, Jimmy.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another action packed, crazy edition of Small Town Murder Express. You know us, we stuff as much murder as we can into this hour of express. So before we get started, very quickly, shut up and give me murder.com is where to go, not only for your merchandise or information, but tickets to live shows. Full slate of 20, 26 live shows are for sale and some of them are selling extremely fast. So like Salt Lake City, sold out in a day. Already gone. So a lot of these, you want to get your tickets right now, they start out February 21st in Nashville.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Let's kick this year off, right? And then in March and the 6th and 7th, we're at Durham, North Carolina, Atlanta. The 20th we're in Phoenix of March in Phoenix at Stand Up Live. And then the 21st we're doing a youa Stupid Opinions at Stand Up Live. So come for both. Salt Lake City sold out. And then we go Denver, Buffalo, Royal Oak, Mini, or I'm sorry, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Terry and Boston. Get in there, get your tickets right now. Shut up and give me murder.com then get yourself Patreon.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Do yourself a favor, patreon.com crimeinsports. All you need to be is $5 a month or above and you get everything that we have to offer, which starts off with as soon as you subscribe, you're going to get hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder. And you just get them all.

[B]

We're crazy.

[A]

We're crazy. We're giving it away. This week for Small Town Murder. We're going to talk about the whole Dean Corll, Wayne Henley thing. This was a horrible murderer. Dean Corll, who recruited a teenage, I guess kind of a teenage Ghislaine Maxwell almost to like bring teenage boys into his little thing. And then they. And then the teenage boy who was left at the end really was holding the bag for a lot of this. So we're going to talk about how much of this is his fault, how much is, you know, this kid just a poor kid who was in a bad situation. We'll talk all about that. That's patreon.com crimeinsports. And in addition to all of that, you also get everything we put out. Crime in sports, your stupid opinions and small town murder. All ad free.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

Ad free with your patreon.

[B]

What a deal.

[A]

And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. So that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, we're going to Arkansas this week.

[B]

No.

[A]

Here we go. Oh, yes. Yes, Jimmy. Yes, Arkansas. Austin, Arkansas.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yes, Austin. Why? There's an Austin in like every state, by the way. It's hilarious, really. There's an Austin, Minnesota. There's an Austin, Arkansas.

[B]

Why are we doing this?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know why we keep doing this, but here we are yet again. This is in central Arkansas. It's about a half hour outside Little Rock. So it's a suburb of Little Rock. It's about two hours to Memphis if you go the other direction on the 40. And about five minutes to our last Arkansas episode. Didn't realize they were so close. Cabot, Arkansas was the last one. Episode 623 On Deadly Ground, which not only is the name of a Steven Seagal movie, but a crazy story. That was a terrible movie, but we did a much better job than he did with that name. Yeah, put it that way. That was the one with the real estate agent. That was really creepy, man. This is in Lonoke county or Lanok county. Area code 501, population 3,486. Oh, not a big place to be. 30 minutes outside of the state capitol and that kind of thing. Median household income here is higher than the national average. It's 78,000, 878. It's 69,000 in the rest of the country because it's. This is like if you want to move, it's a little leafier than Little Rock type of deal. Median home cost though is still very low.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Median home cost here, 201,900 bucks.

[B]

Because it's still Arkansas.

[A]

It's still still central Arkansas. So that's not bad as far as income to housing there. Little bit of history. The city was settled in 1872 when the railroad built tracks about one mile southeast of old Austin. Oh, there was an old Austin. There was. There was Austin. It was called Austin at the time, not Old Austin. Then Many of the residents of old Austin moved a mile near the railroad tracks. They literally uprooted and dragged buildings places. They put buildings on a cart and just dragged it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so the new city near the tracks was known as Austin Station to distinguish it from that Austin that's a mile away. And then it just became known as Austin. So then they had to change the other Austin to old Austin. You change.

[B]

Yeah. Why should we change? You're the one that sucks.

[A]

So now it's Austin and old Austin. Yeah. Reviews of this town. Because we don't know what the hell we're in for.

[B]

No.

[A]

Maybe you people do and we'll find out. Here. Here we go. Here's four stars. There's only two reviews total of this town. Oh, small place with the 3400 people or whatever. Austin, Arkansas is a quiet, family friendly community with a small town feel. I would think so. There's 3,400 people here. Better be. And a strong sense of neighborly support. I appreciate the peaceful atmosphere, low crime rate, and the overall safety it offers, especially for raising a family. The schools are solid and the town continues to grow at a comfortable pace without losing its charm at a medium pace. One area for improvement would be more access to local amenities like grocery stores, restaurants, and recreational facilities. You know, like a food, like a bigger town. That's what you're asking for. I like the small town feel, but I'd like all the conveniences of the bigger town but without the people, which I'd like these things to be open just for me, essentially, is what that is.

[B]

Yeah. I need the places that are supported by large amounts of population to be just for me.

[A]

Just for me. Overall, Austin's a great place to live if you value peace, space, and community. And here's finally. Four stars. Austin slash. Cabot has a small town feel, but it's very close to the larger metropolitan area of Little Rock, providing multiple opportunities.

[B]

There you go. There's.

[A]

Yeah. Should be opportunities for restaurants and grocery shopping and all that stuff. It's all right there. Things to do in this town.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

Okay, we have the Ozark Roots Dulcimer. Dulcimer Festival.

[B]

I don't want Ozark roots.

[A]

And also the Arkansas State Dulcimer Championships take place at the same time.

[B]

What is Dulcimer?

[A]

Well, I'm gonna show you. I was hoping you would ask Jimmy. Well, first of all, there's the guy holding it. He looks like a prospector. There it is.

[B]

He does.

[A]

He does.

[B]

That's a Dulcimer Yeah, it looks like.

[A]

A piece of art. Yeah, yeah, it's a guitar.

[B]

It looks like a small boat that they put strings across.

[A]

Yeah, like a little canoe mixed with a lute mixed with a guitar.

[B]

What is this, a canoe for ants?

[A]

It looks like a four stringer, I believe. Yeah, it seems like four strings. There's four. That's what it is. It makes. All right, it makes.

[B]

Sure it sounds tinny, makes bluegrass sounds.

[A]

It does shit like that. So they say, whether you want to hone your musical abilities or learn to play the mountain or hammer dulcimer for the first time. The do what? Hammer dulcimer?

[B]

Is that what playing it is called?

[A]

Is that what they call that? Sounds like hammered shit is what that sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like some animal. Their excrement's called dulcimer. Oh, yeah. No, that's the excrement of a badger. It's called dulcimer. You gotta hammer it.

[B]

Sounds like they're trying to rock and roll up the least rock and roll thing ever. It really is gonna hammer dulcimer, babe.

[A]

Well, whether you're the first time in that. The annual dulcimer jamboree workshops are a great opportunity to relax, get hands on, and fellow musicians, fellow people who don't know how to play this weird instrument. Make your plans now. Not only that, there are other things going on there. Not too much. There's performances, but nobody that they'll tell us about. I don't think Ludacris will be here, which I'm surprised about. Ludacris doing his dulcimer set. This is what he does. His all dulcimer set is what this is.

[B]

We just had the best lineup ever.

[A]

That was so funny. The last. The last episode. You can't escape ludicrous.

[B]

No, I'm telling you.

[A]

There's at least seven or eight ludicroi rallying the running around.

[B]

They gotta be.

[A]

They have. There's not one man doing all this. It can't be so.

[B]

Otherwise he's laughing at us all the.

[A]

Way to the bank. He has. Yeah, maybe so. Yeah, you have to do that. And then the. The Arkansas State Dulcimer championships on Friday evening and all day Saturday.

[B]

Oh, Jesus. You will be dulcimered out.

[A]

Workshop registration for new beginner, intermediate and advanced mountain dulcimer and hammered dulcimer players. You can click there, get drunk and do it. This is my favorite. Need a place to stay or eat?

[B]

Well, always.

[A]

Yeah, this is great. The skillet Restaurant at the Ozark Folk center offers classic Southern fare. It's a truck stop is what that is.

[B]

And you can stay there.

[A]

I think you can stay there. Yeah.

[B]

Sleep on your car there.

[A]

The cabins at Dry Creek are modern duplex rooms to meet a variety of needs.

[B]

Dry Creek.

[A]

Dry Creek. That sounds great. That said.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Let's talk about some murder here.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Let's get into this. Let's talk about a lady first here, okay? Let's talk about Barbara Jo Basinger.

[B]

Barbara Joe.

[A]

Barbara Dro Barbara Jo Basinger. She's born September 2, 1933.

[B]

Good Lord. Barbie.

[A]

Yes. Barbie's been around. Now. Not sure exactly where she's from because I got real mixed up because there was a woman with her exact same married name. And it's a long story, but they're born, like, the same year, around the same time. And I thought it was her, so I thought I had information from her obituary about birth and all that. But then it turns out it was a complete, completely different person. Wow. Which was crazy because their husbands later on have initials. This Barbara Joe's future husband's initials are J.W. and that's what he goes by. The other Barbara Joe was married to a guy named JT with the same last name. So it was very confused. I was like, is somebody just wrong about the T and the W? What's going on here?

[B]

That can't be possible.

[A]

Dude, it's a mess, man. Picture me at two in the morning just punching myself in the forehead.

[B]

Welcome to Arkansas.

[A]

Who are you? So Barbara Jo, she is gonna marry James W. Still S, T, I, L, l still keep persisting. He goes by J.W. that's his name. See what I mean? The other lady had J.T. he's born June 26, 1936. James had four brothers and a sister. He was born in St. Joseph's in 36. His parents are Rufus and Verse. Lee.

[B]

Verse.

[A]

V, I, R, C E. Versi.

[B]

Versi. Yeah.

[A]

Verse. I don't know, Lee. That's it. He was in the United States Air Force and was a major in the Air Force and retired and had been living. They're gonna. So they end up, you know, starting a family. Sure. They have two daughters and a son. I think Pamela, Carmen are the daughters. And James is the son after him, I assume. But he's James G. Instead of James W. Now, again, they raised some kids. This is about all I know about them. They raised some kids in Arkansas. Sure. In the Yellville area. They're living Yikes. Yellville. Um. Wow. So, Wednesday, November 7, 1979. JW's dead.

[B]

What, he just doesn't wake up?

[A]

No, he's found in his home with a gunshot wound.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

Yeah. So 79. So that would make him. Jesus Christ. Only 40, 46, 43 at that point. He was born in 36.

[B]

Oh, he's born 36? Yeah.

[A]

He's only 43. This is ruled a suicide. So, yeah, he. I don't know what made him. I don't know if it was.

[B]

Young man.

[A]

Yeah. Being out of the military, a lot of people have a hard time with transitions. Sure. Like, athletes have a hard time when they retire. And I assume if you're. If you're especially a successful officer in the. In the military, you might get. You might kind of feel bored or not know what your purpose is or something when you're done.

[B]

Aimless.

[A]

Aimless. But either way, he is. He's dead, and it's.

[B]

Or he could be an alcoholic son of a bitch who's got a problem.

[A]

That's the other thing. We have no idea. We have no clue. So either way, Barbara Jo is upset with this single mom. Now. She's a single mom. The kids are getting older. They're moving out of the house and all that. By 1984, she's a grandma and she's with a new person. So she gets her life together here about five years and is ready to start over again. And she finds Floyd Gibson Jr. Yeah, he's born 1930, so he's a couple years older than her. He had just retired, actually. Just retired. He worked for Jonesboro City Water and Light. And he was a maintenance supervisor.

[B]

Utility man?

[A]

Yeah, utility man. He was a plant maintenance supervisor.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

Yeah. So he's got a son also from a previous relationship, everything like that. So they get together, her and Floyd Gibson, Jr. From what I found, Floyd was married in 1949 for the first time. So, yeah, it's been a while now. They start hanging out with each other, and then she moves in with him. Late 1984, early 1985, they move in together in this area in the Austin area here Now, March of 1986, they've been living together. Apparently, Floyd's sister is looking for Floyd and can't find him.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

So Barbara Jo is the one she gets ahold of. And Barbara Jo said, he just walked out. He left me.

[B]

He just left. Oh, he's gone. He's forever gone.

[A]

He had two suitcases and $14,000 in cash, and he walked out the door. I don't know where he went. He hasn't contacted me. It's 1986. We don't have cell phones. I don't know.

[B]

This thing's over.

[A]

Could be anywhere. Yeah, don't know where he is. If you find him, though, you know, let him know I'm looking for him, basically. So now they have to find him, you know, because he is a missing person at this point. He's not contacting his family, which is strange.

[B]

So he's got 14 grand, two suitcases.

[A]

He could be in Mexico with, like, eight women feeding him grapes. At this point. It's 19, you know, the mid-80s. He could be in Mexico a long.

[B]

Way, not having a great time.

[A]

He could be in Memphis, risk trying to get away from being stabbed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the investigation. Officer Gage of the Arkansas police force here, the state police, he's investigating the disappearance. And when he does, one of the things that you're looking for with a missing person is you track their financials.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

What's their bank account been doing? Have they been writing checks? You know, he's got 14 grand in cash.

[B]

He could disappear.

[A]

That's the thing. Well, they found out also in his bank account, he had about $64,000 at one point. But since then, and this is a joint bank account with Barbara Joe, since he's disappeared, or they think, anyway, they don't know, since about mid January, late January, the account's just been drained by Barbara Joe. Barbara Joe's been making. Draining it. It goes from $64,000 to $5,000 in his bank account.

[B]

That's fast. Yeah.

[A]

In 84, that's 69 grand.

[B]

You gotta be working to spend that.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. He also learned that she'd been accepting the monthly $1,000 interest payments on a certificate of deposit owned by him as well. So she's taking his dividends as well here. And she had traded Floyd's pickup truck for a new one.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So who the hell walks out with two suitcases and $14,000, but doesn't take.

[B]

Their car and just their shoes?

[A]

Just the shoes on their feet. Walking down the road with that makes no sense. Now, everything that happened here, her accepting the payments, the draining of the bank account, the trading in of the truck, all happened after late January of 86. So they're like, okay, there's a definite point where she just starts spending the money. So they're trying to figure out, was he around still during that time. So, April 1986. The police are talking to Barbara Jo, interviewed by the Same Officer Gage here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Barbara Jo tells him the same story that she told the sister. She said, in May or in March, I'm sorry, he took off, just walked out with his shit. So then in May, she comes back to the police department and says, I have something that may be helpful for you.

[B]

Very good.

[A]

This is a quote, farewell note. Oh, fare thee well, Dear John letter. Basically a Dear Barbara Jo letter that she said that Floyd had written and left in her screen door. This is between the last time they talked in April and now. So this just came to my door. Yeah, this wasn't from before and I forgot to give it to you. This is. He must be back. And for some reason, three months later decided to drop me a fucking line. So September of 1986, they get a search warrant for her house, which they hadn't done yet. The reason is talking to all the neighbors to see if they had found or knew anything about Floyd or where he'd gone or anything. Just some insight on Floyd's life. Neighbors said, I don't know. But ever since about late January, Barbara Jo has been keeping a fire going in her yard all day and night.

[B]

Non stop, nonstop fire.

[A]

Perpetual hunter's fire. Just over. Yeah, they said there's a. Yeah, there's a hole in her yard that at this point, they said there's a fabricated shed put on top of it. Now there's a shed, but over that spot for basically from late January all the way through February, she just had fires going constantly for over a month.

[B]

Eternal flame.

[A]

Yeah. So they found the operator of the dump truck who'd been summoned by her to fill the hole. And he said that there were old timbers in the hole which should be removed before filling, but that Barbara Joe was adamant in refusing to let them move the timbers from. Move whatever wood chunks that were in this hole, saying that the hole was the location of an old septic tank. So don't disturb it. Oh, that's what she said. Another thing they noticed is that she's a quilter. Old Barbara Joe. Yeah, she's a. At this point, she's a grandma. She quilts and everything. So one of her neighbors said she really had admired one of her quilts. This was just the stitch work on it. Beautiful, warm. And one day she asked Barbara Jo, hey, where's that quilt that you always had out on the couch? I love that.

[B]

That's my favorite one.

[A]

Where is that? And she said that Barbara Jo, like, acted real shocked and real flustered for a minute and then said it was stolen.

[B]

It was stolen.

[A]

We all know about these.

[B]

That's a damn nice quilt.

[A]

There's quilt thieves out there. That's all they're looking for. They're not looking for jewels, they're not looking for cash or electronics. They want quilts. They know what a grandma quilt is worth on the open market.

[B]

Yeah, I do believe this. There's a quilt. Yeah.

[A]

Tell you what, you take that to.

[B]

Downtown Little Rock, there's a bandit on the loose.

[A]

Oh, downtown Little rock at about 2:00 in the morning. You get yourself something real nice for that quilt, let me tell you. So that's an odd thing. So Barbara Joe's got a stolen quilt and. And has been made doing fires for.

[B]

A fire pit for nine months.

[A]

So that's strange. So that's why they get a search warrant based on all this shit. Just sounds suspicious. And it's enough because they have no other trace of him, it's enough to get a search warrant. So they're gonna start with where that shed is. That's the sure number one. Well, they searched the house, obviously for forensics, but after that they said, let's go ahead and do that. So they pull the shed off of it and they dig at about 34 inches below the ground, just below 3ft. They find something. They do. It's a quilt.

[B]

Oh, is it the quilt?

[A]

It's the quilt. It's the quilt.

[B]

Guess what, Barbie? Joe, we found it.

[A]

We found the quilt. The problem is inside the quilt is Floyd.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Is dead. Floyd. Wrapped up in her prize clothes, Floyd.

[B]

Stole her quilt and jumped into the.

[A]

Ground and then built a fire on top of himself.

[B]

Is 14 grand in there?

[A]

That's impressive. So, yeah, they're like, barb under arrest.

[B]

Found your quilt, found your man.

[A]

So October 1986, Barb has a new story of what happened. Yeah.

[B]

Cause you got to.

[A]

Up till this point, all she had was he left. And now we know that's a lie. So what's going on? So she came to this officer Gage and said, I want to change my story.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, you're right. It was mid January when he took off. Matter of fact, he left me on January 14, but he came back on January 15, changed his mind next day. Yeah. You know, that quilt is irresistible. You get a lady who can make a quilt, you got to come back for that.

[B]

He left on the road. He ran out of peanut butter and just wanted that quilt.

[A]

Just needed it. So she said that day he threatened her with a gun, saying that if she wouldn't marry him, he would kill her and then himself. You're gonna marry me. Yesterday I didn't want to be with you at all. Today I will kill myself if you don't marry me. Which he's real flighty here, real labile here. This Floyd really vacillates a lot. So she then said she ran away from him out of the house, not down the street, not to a neighbor, just into the woods. She ran away screaming and just ran through the bath into the trees. Which. Who does that? She said at that a 7 year old would do that because they don't know what else to do. So she said as she was running through the woods there, trying not to get clotheslined by a branch, she heard a gunshot. Oh, back at the house. So she stayed in the woods for a little while, didn't hear anything else. So then she returned to the house and she said there was Floyd dead on the floor with the gun laying right next to him. Oh, there he was. Guess what? More suicide.

[B]

She is just touched by dude all the time.

[A]

I'll give you one partner committing suicide. Any more than that, it's your fault. I'm sorry. Any more than one. One person. People have problems. If more than one of your spouses kills themselves, you drive people to.

[B]

You're a nightmare.

[A]

That's what that means, your fault. I'm blaming you for that shit. Either that or you killed both of those people. I'm one of the two.

[B]

I was that too.

[A]

Yeah, one of the two. Or I guess probably psychologically, people who are into people with depression probably seek out people in that sense. But you know, still just anecdotal 3.

[B]

Though, I'm giving you shame on all of us.

[A]

3. Forget about it. Forget about it. I don't even care if people watched this person leap off the 80th story of a building. I'm still taking the picture. You pushed him. You did this. It's over on three. So, yeah, he's on the floor. She said she didn't know what to do, so she wrapped the body up in this quilt.

[B]

In the good one?

[A]

Yeah, in the good quilt. And put it in her garbage. She put it in the garbage.

[B]

She's strong.

[A]

I don't know how she got a fucking grown man in the garbage of dead weight. She said later she thought about it though, went in the house and she's like, well, I mean, the garbage men are gonna come. They're gonna wonder why it's so heavy and there's blood everywhere and why I'm throwing out my good quilt. So then she said she went back outside in the middle of the night and dragged the body out of the garbage into the yard and buried it. She said she didn't think she'd be accused of any crime. She said the only reason I did this is because I wanted to bury him in the yard. So he was close to me. Because my first husband, who died from suicide from a gun as well, had been taken from her and buried in a place that she couldn't visit, which I don't know where that was. I don't know if they took him to Thailand or something. Yeah, it's like, where the hell. He's in Sri Lanka.

[B]

I don't know where he burial at sea.

[A]

I don't get it. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe because he was in the military. Might have been a military, A military cemetery where he probably was, or a.

[B]

Family plot in another state. Who knows?

[A]

Wherever it was. Not where she could go. I mean, she could, but I don't think she had the means to. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a better way to cook with Tovala.

[B]

Tovala.com T O V A L A.com.

[A]

Oh, these are the coolest. I'm so happy that we got these. These are awesome.

[B]

It's awesome.

[A]

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[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com Absolutely. New Year is coming. Obviously you don't need to be a whole new you though. No, maybe just a little better, less put upon version of yourself. That's all therapy can do that they can help you with that. Identify these things that are holding you down. We all have things that are holding us down. Keeping us back and Keeping us from doing the things we want to do. You need to get somebody that's going to give you an unbiased perspective on this. And therapy is so good for this. They will point things out that you never even thought of. And it's really. Honestly, we've all had these things going on, these obstacles. I know, Jimmy, this is what you've been in therapy for. These things to get out of your own way. And it helps so much, honestly. And BetterHelp is the place to start. It is so good. It's so good. I mean, God, think about the pressure everybody has after the holidays. It's so much. So you want to get better help. They work according to a strict code of conduct. They're fully licensed in the US Their therapists are great. They have amazing. The match thing is awesome. BetterHelp does the initial matching work so you can focus on your therapy. Just a short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And they have over 12 years of experience and great industry leading match fulfillment rate. So they usually get it right the first time and get you with the right person. But if you're not happy with the match with the therapist, you can switch to a different one at any time, anytime. No additional cost from any of their tailored recommendations. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works too. It really does. With an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. Start therapy today. Honestly, what are you waiting for? It's so good for you. You're going to feel great. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] SmallTownMurder. That's betterhelp.com SmallTown Murder.

[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

So the medical examiner, they say that the wound that killed Floyd Gibson was not the sort associated with suicide. Oh, so this is not suicide because the bullet entered between the eye and the ear and went from the rear rather than from one side of the head to the other. If you shoot yourself, you put it in your temple, comes out the other side. If you do it. Nobody puts a gun to the back of their head.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Behind your ear or. I'm sorry, it was between the eye and ear, but came from the back.

[B]

So it's a right nobody.

[A]

It's not a suicide shot. I mean, I guess it could have. Somebody tried to pull it Away at the last second. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I got a friend, James, that tried to commit suicide.

[A]

We talked about this. That's hard.

[B]

His eyes. The poor bastard.

[A]

Oh, that's horrifying.

[B]

Unbelievable. But that, that. And that's possible to hear. Who knows? Maybe, maybe. Maybe got startled.

[A]

Maybe also the gun that she gave to them. They said, well, where's the gun he killed himself with? She said, this gun is the one he had next to him. The ballistics tech tests show that that's not the gun that killed him.

[B]

What is she doing?

[A]

So this is not good. And there's no other guns found.

[B]

What in the fuck, lady?

[A]

This is real bad. Then they figure also the medical examiner looking him over says he's been dead since late January. So she wasn't. That's when it happened. As soon as he was dead, she started draining the bank accounts, started doing whatever. So then out of nowhere, an anonymous caller calls up to mention the death of J.W. still, her first husband. Yeah, an anonymous caller says, you need to look back into that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So one of the detectives here said, we're just looking into it right now to see if everything was up to snuff back then, meaning the investigation of that death. He said, the investigation of J.W. still's death is more or less a background investigation of her. Okay. They said any information that might change the ruling, you know, we'd be interested in meaning from suicide to homicide. So this goes on. They actually reopened the case of her ex husband. Her dead husband. And yeah, reinvestigated. And they say that, quote, we've reinvestigated the 1979 case, which was first investigated by then Sheriff Billy Joe Purdom. Of course, his name's Billy Joe. And have found his files and the statement of witnesses to be complete. The Marion county case is no longer being investigated and the death continues to be considered a suicide. They have no new evidence, essentially. No, they don't. So rather than go, they don't have anything to do, so they just go, everything's fine. Which of course, we're real. Everyone's real suspicious, obviously. So they take her to trial and they said her assets, the assets that Floyd had, were frozen after his body was found and just before his disappearance. This is a key factor that they think for motive. Like two weeks before he disappeared, he had given Barbara Jo power of attorney, allowing her to access his certificates of deposit and accounts in more than one financial institution. So she. Right before she got access to everything, that she didn't need his signature to get money and do Things. And then, like, two weeks later, he's dead.

[B]

Hmm.

[A]

The state police said that she withdrew not only from bank account, but from investments about $80,000 between the time she was arrested in May and when he disappeared in late January. To spend $80,000 in the middle of fucking nowhere in Arkansas in 1986. You gotta work.

[B]

My word.

[A]

Yeah. You don't even have, like, Amazon or anything, like, online to just, you know, go do real quick. There's none of that shit. No impulse. But you gotta go to a place and buy shit. Like. That's. That's crazy. Barbara is gonna testify.

[B]

Really?

[A]

She has no choice. She's. It's competing narratives. She's gotta. She's gotta say, I'm just a grandmother who quilts. And I came in and my poor. You know, I'm full of tragedy. That's all it is. She testified that he threatened to kill her and that she ran away. Same story. She believes he killed himself. Medical examiner says not how it works. Also, she gave us a gun. That's not the same gun. So where's that gun? So the verdict comes in. They deliberate for less than two hours, and they find her guilty of first degree murder.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

So first fucking degree. No. In two hours, Two hours. First degree murder. But it's the money. It's. If the money wasn't there, she could. If she didn't touch his money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She could have got away with this. She really could have. Yeah, but they looked at the money and they went. I don't think so. He gives you power of attorney, you start draining his accounts, he shoots himself. I don't know. So the judge says, you, grandma may fuck off. Life in prison. Holy life for Barbara Jo. She's going away.

[B]

She's in her 60s, late 50s.

[A]

Late 50s. Gonna have plenty of time for quilting in there. Wow. Yeah. That's life. And I don't know if it's without, but it seems like it's without because. We'll talk about it here. She appealed in 87 on the sufficiency of evidence. Yeah. They're saying that the sufficiency of evidence against her was not enough to sustain her conviction because no one saw the killing, no murder weapon was found, and there was no evidence of any motive on her part. Now, the appeals court said there was plenty of evidence of motive. You stole tens of thousands of dollars, so that's a thing. And the other things? There's plenty of murders where there's no witnesses. And just because you did a good job of hiding the murder weapon, doesn't mean that they can't convict you. That's not how it works, Actually. The fact that you gave them another gun makes you look 10 times worse for sure if you gave him the actual gun. At least she's being honest. Yeah. So they said a defendant's false and improbable explanation of incriminating circumstances is admissible proof of guilt.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So if you do some dumb shit, that counts against you. If you. If you have a dumb story. And it does. So they said the jury had before it substantial evidence that Ms. Still killed Mr. Gibson. So. Affirmed. So there we go. Then in 1990, she says, ineffective assistance of counsel. Just bad assistance of counsel.

[B]

That part was bad.

[A]

Yep. He said that her first statement. Her counsel failed to move to suppress her first statement to police, which she claims was the product of a custodial interrogation where she wasn't Mirandized. Then she says her counsel unreasonably advised her to make her second and third statements to police. Statements that were contradictory and were used to impeach her at trial. Well, your story is shitty.

[B]

First of all, your story sucks.

[A]

It's terrible. Your lawyer should have told you to shut the fuck up. That's true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But still. She also claims her counsel failed to make a motion to suppress admission into evidence checks totaling $57,300 written by still from her joint account, payable to the attorney for the cost of her defense. All right, why. Okay, you're not going to suppress that because that's still her using his money.

[B]

His money.

[A]

She's using his money. That is admissible.

[B]

We got to talk about that.

[A]

Yeah, she's using it for something good nowadays. She wouldn't have been able to take that money and use it for the attorney. They wouldn't have let her. So they're saying basically that not the prosecution used her statements to impeach her. But had the statement been suppressed, the prosecution could have used her second statement, which she maintained her story that Gibson had left town, which we knew was bullshit, too, because he's in the yard.

[B]

Yard. Right.

[A]

And two witnesses also testified that Barbara had given them the same explanation of the whereabouts. So either way, her. Her statements would have been in with other people saying that's what happened. So they said, blind acceptance of the defendant's story may be improper. Counsel has a right to assume his client is telling the truth. Other counsel might have pursued a different strategy. But in assessing a counsel's performance, the courts must resist the temptation to second guess a lawyer. Strategy. Strategy is not competence. Having A having a dumb idea of how to execute this doesn't make you a bad lawyer. It's still an idea and it's an attempt at a vigorous defense, which is all you can ask for.

[B]

That's what it is.

[A]

You just need to be. Not outside the bounds of the law.

[B]

Just need to be defended.

[A]

That's it. So it's affirmed again, Barbara Jo here. This is crazy. Barbara Jo at this moment in time is still in prison. Yeah, she's still in prison today. Yeah. Number 703100.

[B]

She's been there 40 years.

[A]

Yeah, she's been there 40 years. She is life. I mean she's. What is she, 90?

[B]

That's a 90 something year old woman.

[A]

She's almost 90. She's going to be 90 this year.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So that's. That's what I found. And then I found an obituary of a different one that was a complete mess. That was tough. It says that she earned her GED in 1987.

[B]

Nice job.

[A]

In 2021, you were planning on getting out. Yeah. And the reason I knew it wasn't her that was dead is because in 2021, apparently, from what I found, I think this is the same person. Barbara J. Still. How many old ladies named Barbara J. Still could be in the Arkansas State Prison? How many?

[B]

Evidently all of them.

[A]

All of them. She was a disciplinary violation for trafficking and trading in 2021, which was after the other Barbara Jo still died, the one with the JT husband. So I'm like, okay, can I.

[B]

Trafficking?

[A]

Apparently, I don't know what could be food or a cell phone or what. She's in the minimum level risk level unit now. You know, she's 90, she's trafficking. Yeah. I don't think she's gonna attack anybody now. That's where she remains, I believe so. That said, I want to talk about a different murder and normally express we do one murder or whatever, but these two murders, they're both crazy because I think she killed the first guy too.

[B]

I'll bet she did.

[A]

I tend to think she did. Basically based on this, you know, I don't know. It's the same scenario.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She could have also got the idea that that guy killed himself and everybody believed her. So why not?

[B]

Why not this one?

[A]

Yeah, but she probably didn't bury the first one in the yard.

[B]

That's my other point. She left him just laying out. If she did that.

[A]

Yeah. If you call the cops and you say I shot somebody, but if you bury them in the yard, it's always Gonna look bad. Anything you bury in the yard looks suspicious. Just anything?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you could bury a ravioli can.

[A]

Why? Why are you burying that? Chef Boyardee? Why? Why are you burying it? So murder number two here. Okay, this is just the. Basically, this episode is worst excuses is what this is. Because Barbara Jo's Here's a gun that doesn't match. I buried him in a quilt because I wanted to be able to visit him. Is crazy. But. Yeah, it pales in comparison to this fucking idiot. Okay. All right. August 5th, 1994. David Lasalle, he's 45 years old. He is a native of Generette, Arkansas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And he lives in New Iberia, Arkansas.

[B]

Where the fuck is that?

[A]

Arkansas, New Iberia. No idea.

[B]

Well, it's the new one. There's also an old one.

[A]

There's Spain and Portugal. There's Spain and Portugal and then there's this place, you know, that's Iberia and New Iberia. That's how that works. He was the director of Parks and Recreation in the early 1970s for Morgan City. And he was a sales manager for an aviation company. And then after that he's been in the offshore boat industry for years and recently founded a company of LaSalle Marine, Inc. Became a founding partner of that.

[B]

In landlocked Arkansas.

[A]

In landlocked Arkansas. The Mississippi, I suppose. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this day, he and his cousin. So David, his cousin Henry, Henry Porter, who's 49 years old, and Henry's daughter Molly, who's 18 years old, they're all going through a hike. They're going for a hike on a forest trail near the Long Pool recreation area in Pope County.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Okay. Now they see a guy riding and a six wheeled atv.

[B]

Sick.

[A]

One of those bigger fuckers. Yeah. So they had a couple, couple encounters with ATV guy in the woods. And if you walk around the woods of Arkansas, someone on an ATV is gonna fly by at some point.

[B]

And one with probably 12 wheels just went by.

[A]

12 wheels. And yeah, if there's nobody with a banjo on the back, you're doing well.

[B]

And that thing didn't come with six in the wall. He welded something to it probably.

[A]

So this became very odd. Now, at first the ATV man passed by the group at a high rate of speed, flew by on the trail, didn't even look at them, didn't nod, didn't blink, didn't, you know, say hi, nothing. Then they see him again a little while later. He comes up and he stops and he talks to them. They have a cordial conversation. Hey, where you guys been? Oh, yeah, I went up here. It's really pretty. They got this over there. That's cool. You know where the fishing is and all that kind of shit. And then he gave them directions to the long pool recreation area. So he's like the woods guide here. He's given directions. Seems like lucky that guy passed us on that atv. So then he took off. Then a few minutes later, he flies by the group again, according to one of them, quote, as fast as you could go on that trail. And they said he looked agitated. Just flying with a pissed off look on his face. He was going somewhere that something was about to happen.

[B]

So no helmet.

[A]

Then he comes back a fourth time. God damn. What do you think people in the woods in Arkansas in the 90s are wearing helmets?

[B]

You don't think they're concerned with safety?

[A]

James, come on. I didn't know one kid because we were teenagers. I didn't know one kid who rode. Who had a helmet on, riding dirt bikes or anything else then either, really. Fuck no. If you put a helmet on in the 90s, what do you think would be rained down upon you? What word do you think would come out over and over and over again?

[B]

It's. You don't think it's.

[A]

No. Maybe that's my group of friends were fucking idiots. But that's. I won't put it past that. But I never saw no one even owned a helmet. None of these people.

[B]

I mean, I didn't ride anything in the city limits, so I mean, nobody would. There wasn't anybody there to rain upon gay slurs. But I could.

[A]

No, no. This is in the woods. Kids will yell at from the trees. You don't even know they're there. Second you clip the helmet under the chin, people start yelling it from the treetops back then. They just start yell at passing cars, anybody. They just know.

[B]

Echoing off the mossy oaks.

[A]

It was wild to be a kid back then. It really was. So he's flying around with no helmet now. The fourth time he pulls up was about two minutes after the last time when he flew by looking agitated. Okay, so the group is continuing their hike on the trail, and out of nowhere, they're just walking. They see him, and then he's not near them anymore, the ATV guy. Then out of nowhere, Porter. Here, dad. Porter Henry. He hears multiple gunshots.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

And he sees David lasalle slumped to the ground.

[B]

Fall down.

[A]

Fall down. His cousin David just hit. Fall down. And he said that Porter Henry said he felt like what was like a Bee sting on his shoulder. Stung by a bee. And it wasn't something bit, it was a gunshot. So he grabbed Molly, his 18 year old daughter, by the arm and pulled her down to the ground.

[B]

Nice move.

[A]

Two of them got shot. Because he's a good dad. Pulls her down to the ground. So Henry looks in the direction that he thinks the shots are coming from and sees the guy on the atv.

[B]

That's the atv. Son of a bitch. Yeah.

[A]

He's in a slight crouch. He's off the atv. He's in a slight crouch with both hands on a semiautomatic pistol.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

So then Henry Porter feels something hit him in the face and he's knocked back into the dirt, he said. Then blood began gushing out of his face the way he put it, and he realized he'd been shot again. So he's like, oh fuck, I've been shot twice. Headshot, headshot. Now he looks back. ATV man is attempting to reload his pistol. So now you got two choices. Now you can either run the fuck away or you can go at him. One of the two.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But either way he's going to chase you probably.

[B]

And either way, no matter what you do, you're shot. And the right. And the, the motion and the movement is going to cause pumping and blood's coming out.

[A]

It's absolutely, I would think the adrenaline at point is causing it to come.

[B]

Out and keep you to go. And there's that.

[A]

Yeah, I mean it's, it's pumping. Your heart is pumping. At this point, just survival mode. Also protect your daughter. I just got shot. All the different things are going crazy. So to keep your head straight is impressive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this guy Henry says, this is the, these are the times that define everything. And he says fuck it and runs at ATV man.

[B]

Are we going into the night?

[A]

That's it. So he runs at ATV man. He runs at him, tries to tackle him. Because the guy on the ATV runs away from him trying to reload the pistol. He's running, he doesn't want to get tackled while he's trying to reload. So he runs and starts running behind trees trying to reload the gun. They're playing like. Yeah, yeah. They're doing like, try it like little kids around a tree. And he's like, I'm trying to stick bullets in the fucking gun as this happens. Howard Coward. Absolutely. Yeah. You couldn't be more. You see this man shot twice and you're scared. So he's running away and hides behind a tree. So Henry Porter Goes over to the ATV and pulls the keys out of it.

[B]

Nice move.

[A]

And he says, quote, now try to get out of here.

[B]

Now youse can't leave. Hillbilly way.

[A]

Exactly. That's the hillbilly. Now yous can't leave. Exactly. I have under here. Now yous can't leave. Arkansas style. That's what I have written down. Cause that's exactly what this is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now try and get out of here. Now you want this guy to leave. That's the problem. Now you're stuck with him.

[B]

Well, it sounds as though he does not want him to leave. He wants to tear him apart.

[A]

But when he gets the pistol reloaded, which he does, uh, oh. Now you're stuck with a guy with no way to leave. Now you can't leave except to go through you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he reloads the pistol. ATV man steps out from behind the tree and points the gun at Porter again. So Henry Porter goes, oh, fuck. And he runs for a distance and then stops to see what the guy was doing. He runs and there's no shot. So he's like. He looks back, like, what's going on? And he looks down and sees Molly, his daughter, is still lying down beside his dead cousin. David's dead on the ground.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Is that first shot got him? So then ATV man starts firing the shots again. Once, when Henry stopped, he starts firing shots, hits him in the forearm. Now, God damn it. Shoulder, forearm, head. So he got hit and he just keeps running. He runs and ends up at a farm. He just runs through the woods till he hits a farm. And then he's asking for help. I mean, you don't need to ask for it if you show up with three gunshot wounds. Now, Molly, this poor young lady, had been trying to assist her uncle. She'd been trying to help him, but he's dead. He's beyond help. So she just ran from the scene, scurried away, and hid under a rock on a small cliff. This poor little.

[B]

He didn't shoot her.

[A]

No, he never shot her. Because she wasn't the threat. She was firing. He was firing at Henry. Once Henry got out of distance, I think he just took off. He has no keys to the atv, but later on we'll find out it's this atv, belongs to a friend of his. And you can use a knife or a screwdriver to start it, too. So you can use a knife blade to start it.

[B]

The ignition on any of those ATVs, that's a turn. It carries.

[A]

Yeah, it's just yeah. So anyway, Henry Porter comes back to the area with the cops now. Back to the scene of the shooting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they fight. He's looking for Molly, he's looking for his daughter. He doesn't know if this guy kidnapped her and dragged her into the woods like a Sasquatch or whatever, shot her.

[B]

And left her there.

[A]

Either way, is she a woods bride now? We don't know. So they end up calling her and she finally crawls out from under a rock. And so he finds his daughter safe and sound. She's the only one who's not shot at all. And yeah, he was shot.

[B]

Not physically injured, but certainly.

[A]

Oh, she's all fucked up. Yeah. So he was shot in the shoulder, forearm and face. Henry Porter. And Lasalle was shot too. And Molly said, yeah, this guy started shooting at us and my dad went after him and then he took off. And so Lasalle died, David Lasalle died of a single gunshot wound to the head. And Molly states later, by the way, when she was hiding behind the rock, she heard somebody start the ATV and drive off.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So she heard it and she was scared that he was looking for her, but he just took off because he probably knew, oh shit, someone's coming back with cops. Now this goes on in the woods. We don't know who ATV man is, right? Then about an hour after all this happens is possibly the dumbest thing that any criminal has ever done in the history of the world. Introducing Jimmy Don Wooten. Yeah, Jimmy J, I M M Y. Don Wooten. And he goes by Jimmy Don. Now Jimmy Don, you go to Arkansas.

[B]

You get two names, that's it.

[A]

Sheriff Bobby Joe, Sheriff Jimmy Don. Now he's born June 10, 1963, this idiot. So he's in his 30s. This isn't like a 20 year old or anything like that. Fairly young. He shows up to the cops. This is amazing. And he says, I'd like to report something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they go, what's that? And he go, there's this guy, right? He said, I was fishing out near Longpool and there's this fella came up upon me, shot at me with a.22 caliber pistol and stole my six wheeled ATV. Oh. And they said, really? That's interesting. He shot at you and stole your atv because they know they're looking. And he said, they go, well, what's, what did the man look like? This is important information. It's important evidence. What'd the man look like? And his answer, exactly like me.

[B]

That's a man who knows he's been Spotted.

[A]

Oh, my God. He said, exactly.

[B]

It was crazy identical.

[A]

He said it was like looking in a mirror. And he just came, shot at me and stole my atv. It's literally his story is my doppelgang, my evil twin, is running around the woods stealing from me and killing people. Yeah. I don't even know what the fuck he said.

[B]

Yeah, how did he. Did he think that? On his way there, do you think they went, what did he look like? And he goes, shit.

[A]

That'S a great question. What the fuck are you doing?

[B]

I'll bet they stumped him right then. And when he was like, well, I've been spotted, so I gotta say something. Well, well, exactly like.

[A]

I mean, he said, separated at birth, y'. All. He said it was eerie. He said it was. I got my doppelganger just. Just a running around. So you. Y' all gotta stop him. Cause he's giving me a bad name out there. People gonna think it's me. He said that the. The gun that he shot at him with was the.22 that he had in the ATV because he shot at me with my own gun.

[B]

My own gun. My duffel bagger.

[A]

And he. Look, I'm pretty sure he's home fucking my wife right now. I' you should probably go check on it.

[B]

There's no way he knows the word doppelganger, right?

[A]

No, there isn't. I'm sure. He said, my evil twin, he just.

[B]

My clip clopper or something.

[A]

No, it gets better. Yeah. Somehow it gets better. They look outside and they go, well, you got an ATV outside that you rode up on, and there's a.22 caliber pistol on there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he goes, oh, well, yeah, I found it again later.

[B]

I got it back.

[A]

I got it back. I mean, he didn't.

[B]

He did all my police work. Yeah.

[A]

He said, I found it abandoned on the side of the road near his truck. So the guy dropped it off right by my truck for me. Ain't that convenient?

[B]

So you're telling me a man stole your ATV, looks just like you?

[A]

Yeah, identical.

[B]

Identical. Stole your truck or stole your. Stole your bike, stole your gun, shot at you with your own gun, and.

[A]

Returned then killed other people to your truck? He said, probably that guy's truck.

[B]

And it looks just like you.

[A]

Identical. It's eerie. Creepy. And they said, well, when you found the atv, what was. You know? He said, well, the keys were there. They had blood on it. There was blood on the keys, and the pistol was on the floor, but without its magazine in it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And I don't know, man. So they. That's. That's the murder weapon, the gun he has on him.

[B]

This is his story.

[A]

This is his story. He said, I'm gonna get ahead of this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is like people who like, you know, go out, do a bunch of shit and then report their car stolen like two hours afterwards. Like, that doesn't quite hold the same weight. That's a guy. But at least they don't say a guy who looked just like me stolen. That's crazy.

[B]

I didn't sink to him and he looked just like me.

[A]

What a fucking idiot. So it was determined that his gun fired the.22 caliber cartridge found at the location of the shooting as well. In addition, swimming trunks found at his home matched the exact description that Henry and Molly gave to the cops of the.

[B]

He shot people in swim trunks.

[A]

Swim trunks?

[B]

What the fuck?

[A]

He's at a recreational area with swim trunks and an ATV and he says, I'm gonna kill people. He doesn't even know these people.

[B]

Why would you. What the fuck?

[A]

By the way, Jimmy, Don Wooten, they pick him out of a lineup and he goes, well, yeah, told Charlie what? I'm telling the truth. That's the craziest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

So they, they pick him out of a lineup and everything like this isn't just, you know, he's, he's.

[B]

He's fucked for all intents and purposes.

[A]

It doesn't look good, I'll say that much right fucking now. Yeah. So. Wow. They're going to talk to him. Obviously he's picked out of a lineup, which he says, you know, hey, that ain't me. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[B]

Thrive Market.com.

[A]

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[B]

And now back to the show.

[A]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the safest sponsor there is. Simply safe.

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[B]

Guy. What did he do this.

[A]

For? This isn't like, you know, oh, this is a long. This is just the end of the culmination of a criminal career. He's never been in trouble. Never done anything. We find out that he's got some problems and there's gonna be no surprise here. He's the youngest of six children. Dirt. Dirt, Arkansas dirt poor. Real dirt poor. Like their floor is made of dirt poor. That's dirt poor. His father was a severe alcoholic who refused to work or provide for the family. Horrible abuse by the father to the whole family. Beats the shit out of every one of the six kids and the mom in front of the kids, everything. He beats everybody, including young Jimmy Don, who is, you know, the youngest. And they said that, yeah, he was actually a special target of his dad. His dad took great joy in beating the shit out of him because he was small and weak and also mentally slow. He's not all that shocking that a guy who's not all there. Go. I got the perfect crime. You do things. Then you say some guy looked just like me, did it. That's. That's how that'll get.

[B]

It. I can't believe nobody never thought of this.

[A]

Before. That's the process of a dumper. Remember in Mindhunter when they talked to the one guy who's a complete.

[B]

Moron? He's like, they weren't looking for me.

[A]

Yeah. He said, yeah. So I sent him letters to keep them off the track. And they were like, you just pushed them toward you more. That's what he did. He's an.

[B]

Idiot. Well, they didn't. They didn't find her, so I wanted them to find her. Yeah, but you told them where the body is. Yeah, that's the genius.

[A]

Part. Yeah, see, that's the smart part. That way they.

[B]

Know. Walking around like a.

[A]

Donut. Exactly. That's this guy. That's who we're dealing with. This is the level of.

[B]

Intelligence. And I've been framed by my double.

[A]

Dutcher. Oh, God damn evil twin. Every time. I thought the soap operas was lying all these years, but no, there's evil twins out there now. They said he has a lifelong history of learning and cognitive problems. He was in special education for the lowest functioning students that they had available in Arkansas, which is saying something. Yeah, he was in like. I think they call that the inbreeder class is what that is. Certainly the mostly just inbred.

[B]

Children. It's a single helix. That's what they call.

[A]

It. Yeah. Now, despite of all of this, he was considered a good worker at jobs that he had just unskilled manual labor jobs. But he's a good worker who doesn't do anything or steal or that crazy. Does his job and shuts up and goes home. He had. But his childhood was a fucking mess, they said. Evidence of his life history that were noted here in court records. Quote, among other things, Wooten was able to hold several jobs, including maintenance work and small vehicle repairs. Well, so did Billy Bob Thornton and Sling Blade. So did Sling Blade. He literally did this exact thing. And they're like, I mean, he's fine.

[B]

Right? Hacked a man's head in half with a lawnmower.

[A]

Blade. Jesus. I call it a sling blade, including maintenance work in small vehicle. Graduated high school, bottom of his class, but he graduated. I didn't graduate high school, so. Good for you. Attended college for two.

[B]

Years.

[A]

What? It couldn't have been. I don't think it was, like, a major university. And he didn't graduate. He just went and was able to maintain his driver's license. He actually operated an aircraft and actually at one point owned a Beechcraft Skipper.

[B]

Airplane. You can own anything, James. I mean, that does not mean he flew it, but if he did, that's.

[A]

Impressive. And he's still alive, which means he knew how to fly it, you know what I.

[B]

Mean? And knew how to land.

[A]

It. Currently, he was an employee of Arkansas Tech University in Russellville. I guess he was doing maintenance work there. He pleads not guilty to the charges. Wow. Yeah. Now, so Henry Porter lives through all this with his three gunshot wounds, and the newspapers are calling him a hero for saving his daughter and everything else. He says, I think she had as much to do with saving her life as I did. Which, yeah, she went and hit under a rock and everything like that. She was just lucky he didn't start shooting her. But he made himself the target and the threat for this man, so it took the attention off his daughter. That's hero shit. He said that. I don't want anything to get in the media that might in any way jeopardize the case against this guy. And he said another thing. He said there weren't a cross word between everybody until this fellow shot at us for no reason. They didn't say, fuck you. Slow down with your 18. There was never a word exchanged other than the cordial talking and him giving them directions. So none of this makes sense. He didn't rob.

[B]

Them.

[A]

Right. It's the thing he didn't see, like, didn't have anything to.

[B]

Take. There was no benefit for this. It was just to kill.

[A]

People. It's crazy. So David lasalle's brother said they had a cordial conversation with this fellow and then left him. The next thing they know My brother's shot in the back of the head. It was completely unexpected. So, like I said, they pick him from a lineup, obviously, and they try to get the lineup suppressed. Oh, yeah. They say that basically Henry Porter, the guy who survived, described initially the assailant as being in his late 20s, 5ft 7 inches tall, about 140 pounds, with sandy blonde.

[B]

Hair.

[A]

Sure. He didn't say that the assailant had either a mustache or a.

[B]

Beard.

[A]

Oh. But then when they got him in front, he picked that guy out. Molly Porter described the assailant as being in his late 20s, light brown hair. His hair's red, by the way. He's a ginger.

[B]

Hardcore. This is Arkansas.

[A]

Too. Yeah, yeah. Five foot six, about 140, 150 pounds. She also didn't mention a beard or.

[B]

Mustache.

[A]

No. Now he contends they want to get the. The lineup thrown out because Jimmy Don contends the lineup was conducted. That was conducted. Was overly suggestive because based on the description provided by the two witnesses, it was inevitable he would be picked. You know, because it was me, because it looked just like me. He says he was the shortest person in the lineup by 3 or 4 inches and asserts that the closest to his height had gray hair and a mustache and that two other persons in the lineup had facial hair and that two persons appeared to be in their late teens or early 20s. So, yeah, you do have to have a generally consistent.

[B]

Lineup.

[A]

Okay. The trial court, though, concludes that they did not see much disparity at all between the individuals placed in the lineup. And there was nothing that the court appeared to be suggestive happening. So they said lineup stands, which is pretty much everything. That they picked him out as the guy shooting at.

[B]

Them. Yeah.

[A]

But. And also, he had the gun, and his story's ridiculous. Just go in front of the jury with that.

[B]

Story. Yeah, but the other part is, like, don't you want a lineup with, like, I don't know, like a guess who. Everybody's different. I don't want everybody to look the same or.

[A]

Similar. Everybody's supposed to look similar in a lineup.

[B]

Though. Are they.

[A]

Really? Yeah, they're supposed to look similar. So you pick out the exact person that did it. Yeah. All right. If you pick out. Because otherwise, if. Let's say you see, yeah, I guess he was tall and sort of, you know, vaguely ethnic of some kind. And then you stick me in the lineup with you and like, Sarah and like a bunch of other.

[B]

People. I guess the idea. I guess the idea is here's a bunch of people. One of Them is the one we suspect. Perhaps if you pick the one we suspect, then it's. Yeah, I guess you're.

[A]

Right. Yeah, yeah, you got to pick them.

[B]

Out. Because if they all just expect a guy and then Everybody else is 60 years old.

[A]

And. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it's not only any of them, that's for.

[A]

Sure. And the person doing the lineup is going to do process of elimination of that must be the guy. It's not him. Rather than it's definitely him. So the prosecution's opening said common sense will tell you what's different about this. And we've got the defendant with his blue bathing suit with the red band around the top and his stained eye or his stained eye teeth.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

What? And we've got a cold blooded murderer. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is this defendant right here. So the defense, their entire theory is it was another guy. They stick with his story. A lawyer does not come up with a better strategy than to look just like.

[B]

Him. Yeah, I mean, plausible for what happened and all the facts, the best story is Duffel Bagger. You're.

[A]

Right. That's the only thing. Yeah, you know what? Duffel Bagger, we're doing it. So the prosecution in closing said Teb Porter, that's Henry's nickname, is a hero. And this defendant is a coward. He's a coward and he's a murderer. Every one of you was asked talking to the jury if you would hold the state accountable for a motive. And you assured me you wouldn't try to make us explain what was going through his head. Because I don't want to be there in his stupid head, I assume you say, but there's some obvious things about this. And I'm sure you've seen three people hiking. One shot dead, the other shot three times. And the other one in and around this shooting, definitely in danger, but no physical injuries. And that one person's a pretty little 18 year old girl. Yeah, pretty little. Thing said the only. The one person who doesn't have a scratch on her when he is from me to you is Molly. You see where I'm going. You know that's not our burden. Although, you know that's what's happening. Do you see what they're.

[B]

Saying? What are they.

[A]

Saying? They're saying he's trying to kill those two. So he can kill. He can get Molly and go take them.

[B]

Out. He's the.

[A]

Girl. Yes, he said he's from me to you. From her. Doesn't shoot her, huh? But tries to shoot the two men. Meanwhile, she's a pretty 18 year old girl. So saying he got his dick hard on this ATV and said, I'll get me that.

[B]

That's. Whoa.

[A]

There. That's what he's saying is, you know, I'm not saying that's motive, but you can follow my logic, right?

[B]

Yeah. She's the only one that's unscathed. And it didn't go to his plan, that's for.

[A]

Sure. This is obviously not what he expected to happen. So the verdict comes in in very short amount of time. He is guilty of capital murder, criminal attempt to commit capital murder and aggravated assault in.

[B]

Arkansas. They pull your heart out through your penis.

[A]

There. I believe that's, that's actually what the judge sentences him to. So the sentencing, the mitigation, they say that his entire penalty phase presentation, his lawyer's presentation, filled fewer than 10 pages of trial transcript, including his opening and closings from.

[B]

The. He didn't even try.

[A]

Y'. All. He presented two witnesses. An officer from the jail where Jimmy Don was housed prior to and during the trial, and one of his former coworkers. Doesn't bring in his family, doesn't bring in brothers, sisters, mother, none of that.

[B]

Shit. I expected an OJ defense for this open shut.

[A]

Case. He said he had no criminal work, no criminal record. He's a good worker, a good prisoner, and could work in prison if sentenced to life in prison. So he'll make his way. The co worker also testified he was a good worker. In closing, his lawyer told the jury they would have to find the aggravating circumstance asserted by the state, namely that the person in the commission of capital murder knowingly created a great risk of death to a person other than the victim. And he said that he told the jury also he did not intend to appeal to a motion and in fact presented no evidence of any personal history or testimony from the family. Okay, okay. The jury finds the knowingly created a great risk of death. Aggravator. They found several mitigators too. No criminal record, exemplary work ethic, more than one job skill that he could use in prison. That he adapted to prison and was a good prisoner. And that he didn't kill the girl, didn't kill.

[B]

Molly. That is.

[A]

Good. But they say, you, sir, may fuck off. Death by lethal.

[B]

Injection. Yes. It's Arkansas, man. You don't kill people.

[A]

There. Plus, they have the highest murder rate, second or third highest murder.

[B]

Rate. Yeah, but my point is, my.

[A]

Point just because I don't mean are Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas. They're the three that kill the most People too. Just about. They're in the top.

[B]

Five. Right. My point is, when you do it, don't expect to not be put to.

[A]

Death. Yeah, but the problem is, it's also the Arkansas court system. So that's why they drag on for 40 years. They don't actually kill all these people because it's Arkansas. So. Plus 30 years imprisonment on the attempt to commit murder and six years on an aggravated assault charge. His first appeal is denied. A new lawyer is hired for some second appeals and third appeals. One of the appeals he says they kept. This is my favorite. They struck the one black juror, and the appeals court is like, you have red hair. How would that have helped.

[B]

You? They.

[A]

Understand. Over time, they figured out that black jurors are less likely to vote for a death penalty. That's what their thing is here. But they say it wasn't struck for that reason. It wasn't. So that's preserved there. 1999 appeal. Okay. His wife hired a new lawyer after the first appeal. This guy Clausen. James O. Clausen. He does now. Here's some highlights of Clausen's legal career. I'll go through this real quick. 1993. Disbarred in Oklahoma for failure to pay dues and also to do the continued learning. 94. Oklahoma. Conviction and sentencing. Sentenced to two years in Oklahoma on two separate grounds of uttering a forged instrument. 1998. Reprimanded by the Arkansas Supreme Court for mishandling a bankruptcy case. Also reprimanded that year by the Supreme Court for Deceptive Advertising. 1999. Referred to the Arkansas Committee of Professional Conduct for failing to file an appeal on behalf of his client. 2001. Sentenced to 18 months imprisonment by the US District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas after being found guilty of six counts of bankruptcy, flaws, fraud, and then finally disbarred in.

[B]

2001.

[A]

Nice. Yeah. Not.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Yeah. Lawson. So it's.

[B]

Fucking. That's his.

[A]

Lawyer. This guy says, we got a new. And this is literally what he said in court. He's, quote, too.

[B]

Retarded. Oh, I'm too retarded. I can't do.

[A]

This. No, no, no. He can't be executed. Just too retarded. Oh, not that he is just mentally retarded. He's too.

[B]

Retarded. Like, good news, James. Neither of us will ever. We've never flown a.

[A]

Plane.

[B]

Yes. We're in good.

[A]

Shape. We're in good shape. That doesn't.

[B]

Work.

[A]

No. Finally, in 2020, his death sentence is overturned. What? And his new sentence is you sir may fuck off. Life without parole. It's because of the attorney thing. A ton of stuff up so on everything like that right now. Here, I'll give you a picture of him here. Yeah, there he is, that guy. That little squirrely fuck.

[B]

Here. That little guy looks like your.

[A]

Neighbor. Yep. He's £635. Little guy still there. Dangerous. Where is he in the facility? Address that doesn't matter. He's a P.O. box 600 Grady, Arkansas. There's the thing. So he's in there and will be in there forever. Life without parole. He did achieve in a program principles of applied to living program in 2012. So there you go. There's Jimmy Don Wooten. There's Barbara Gar still. There's two, three named Arkansas murderers in one hour for you.

[B]

Guys. I got a feeling that guy was. That lawyer was right. I think his motive and idea of why it happened 100%.

[A]

Accurate. That's the only thing that makes.

[B]

Sense. Nothing else is.

[A]

Plausible. Makes sense. So there you go. Definitely head over to shut upandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows. Nashville, you're up first. February 22nd. Can't wait. Get those right now. We are excited to do more live shows so that is great. Do that. Give us five stars on whatever app you're listening to. Follow us on social media at Smalltown Murder on Instagram. Small Town pod on Facebook patreon.com crimeinsports all your bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month or above. Hundreds of back bonus episodes immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One crime and sports. One Small Town murder. You get it all this week. Small town Murder. Dean Corll and Wayne Henley. And was that an accomplice situation? Was he forced? It's so crazy unearthing people from the ground. It's bonkers stuff. We'll talk about that and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show and you get everything we do ad free. Patreon.com crimeinsports want to follow us? Shut up and give me murder. Shutupandgivemerder.com is the place to find everything that you can About Us thank you so much for joining us. Until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in.

[B]

Benefits. They leave.

[A]

Out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch. And now T Mobile is in U.S. cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans, plus the cost of optional benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit.