The Fireplace Poker Murder - Spring Grove, Illinois

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast

Episode: The Fireplace Poker Murder – Spring Grove, Illinois

Hosts: James Pietragallo, Jimmie Whisman
Date: January 29, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmie journey to rural Spring Grove, Illinois, to dissect a particularly brutal 1992 murder case: the bludgeoning death of 21-year-old Kathleen (“Kathy”) Twarowski. The main suspect is her on-again, off-again boyfriend, John Cumby, a former small-town cop with a violent record. The hosts balance deep research and grim facts with their trademark irreverent comedic riffs, laying out the small-town quirks, legal maneuvers, and the maddening labyrinth of evidence, trials, and appeals that followed Kathy’s murder.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Spring Grove, Illinois

• Location & Demographics:
  • Rural commuter town between Chicago and Milwaukee; pop. 5,713, area code 815.
  • Notoriously high median income ($131k), almost zero racial diversity (92.8% white, 0% black), 54% religious, "Catholics are the Baptists of the North" (13:50).
  • Home to the driest fact ever: "First vertical silo in North America was built here in 1873.” (9:19)
• Social Life:
  • B4 Summer Festival ("bacon sizzles, bourbon flows, ziplining, and more–all while drinking heavily"), (19:12).
  • Eclectic local cover bands: "Rock Brigade plays only the biggest and best of Def Leppard," (22:15).
• Crime Rate:
  • Extremely low; violent crime 1/3 national average. “This place is very safe. Incredibly safe. That said, let's talk about some horrible murder that happened here.” (24:57)

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2. Victim and Suspect Backgrounds

Kathleen “Kathy” Twarowski

• Born 1971. Oldest child, close to her family.
• Model student and athlete: National Honor Society, student council, anti-drug and drunk-driving groups, girls’ basketball.
• Described as "loyal, kind, striking – always smiling, always laughing," (Math teacher, 36:04).

John A. Cumby

• 11 years older than Kathy (b. 1960), ex-cop, divorced, two kids, “bullied hard for that last name.”
• Became police officer “to live out a power trip” (41:16); known for brutality.
  • Example: pulled a gun on a man for a burned-out turn signal (41:24).
• Had a history of domestic violence (“beat wife with his gun”) and restraining orders.
• Pattern of controlling, stalking behavior: started contact with Kathy when she was 12, later stalked her at clubs, assaulted her physically, and damaged her property.

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3. The Abusive Relationship Unfolds

• John meets Kathy at age 12 while on patrol; by 18, they’re dating—he’s 29, separated with two young kids.
• Cyclical breakup/make-up pattern (moves in, moves out, buys house, moves out again).
• Multiple documented incidents of abuse:
  • Nov 1991: Strangled, hair pulled out (50:25)
  • Jan 1992: Bites her face at a nightclub; beats her, slashes her car, steals belongings (54:41, 57:02)
  • Cops arrest John for battery & violating protection order
• Controlling, stalking, and “showing up wherever she is” (62:11).
• Kathy obtains protective order—then “starts dating him again” (65:31), often hiding it from her parents.

Quote:
Kathy to friend, Nov. 1991: "Helen, this is fucked up. This time I thought he was going to kill me." (51:00)

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4. Timeline of the Crime

• May 5, 1992 (Murder Night):
  • Kathy leaves parents’ home at 8:30pm after dinner; says she’s going to a friend’s.
  • John allegedly calls her at 6:30pm and again after 9pm to set up a meeting/study session.
  • 11:20pm: Local narrowly avoids head-on collision with car driven by man (“dark hair”) with “slumped over” woman passenger—likely Kathy, dead or dying (71:17).
• May 6, 1992: Kathy’s body found in her white Geo Tracker, in tall grass one mile from Cumby’s home, near his old job. Severe head trauma, pants unzipped, reclined seat. (74:13)
  • 14 lacerations to scalp, 7 to face, broken teeth. Bludgeoned with heavy rod-like object—likely fireplace poker.
  • Blood, hair, and physical evidence (fibers, hair, blood, etc.) subsequently found at John’s house, especially on bathroom linens and a push broom.
• Police immediate suspicion:
  • “It was probably John, the guy who bit her face up two months ago.” (82:08)
  • Cumby’s immediate response: "Where's Kathy? You can check my alibis." (83:10)

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5. The Investigation

• Interviews and Deflection:
  • John lies about relationship ("just buddies"), offers confusing timeline, has fresh wounds (blames on “log from fireplace” and “stethoscope burn,” 86:03).
  • Tries to shift blame to “stalkers” and invents "a fancy-dancing Mexican" (115:05)—an obviously fabricated, racist scapegoat.
• Forensics & Evidence:
  • Extensive testing: some bloodstains in Cumby’s house, lots of Kathy's hair on his broom (with blood and pulled roots), fibers linking his, hers, and house.
  • Fireplace poker consistent with weapon used, though no conclusive blood found (101:16).
  • No semen or evidence of recent sex.
  • Jailhouse confession to fellow inmate: “I did it. So what?” and “...dropped the body off in McHenry county because you can't get tried in two counties.” (94:45, 162:01)

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6. Legal Shenanigans: Trials and Appeals

• First Trial (1993):
  • Prosecution: Detailed abuse history, circumstantial and forensic evidence, stalking, confession to police/detective.
  • Defense: Attack forensics, argue lack of direct evidence, highlight absence of Cumby’s fingerprints/hair in the car, blame “police hunch.”
  • Jury finds him guilty of first-degree murder (“exceptionally brutal and heinous as well”).
  • Memorable moment: John’s sentencing speech is a 20-minute rant scapegoating everyone—judge, police, victim’s family, “I help everybody. I never hurt anyone. I think of myself as calm and serene." (154:50)
  • Sentence: Life without parole
    • Judge: “You, sir, may fuck off…” (155:45)
• Appellate Reversal (1995):
  • Technicality: Jury wasn’t properly instructed regarding venue (which county had jurisdiction), so verdict overturned.
• Second Trial (2003):
  • All previous evidence, plus testimony from jailhouse informant about Cumby’s confession.
  • Same verdict and sentence: Guilty, life without parole (174:52)
• Endless Appeals:
  • Cumby and his attorneys repeatedly blame everyone else, claim evidence was mishandled, even allege the murder weapon was misidentified, float more conspiracies, and blame “fancy-dancing Mexicans.”
  • All appeals denied, withering ridicule from the court and hosts alike.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Jokes on Small Town Quirkiness:
  “If they don’t have what you want, it’s your fault.” (10:44)
  "They worship the AR-15. Catholic is the Baptist of the North." (13:50)
• On Cumby’s Violence:
  "He became a police officer to ‘live out a power trip’, which is the worst reason to become a police officer for everybody around you.” (41:16)
• On Cumby’s defense:
  “According to him, I’ll show you my guns… but we never said it was a shooting.” (88:16)
• On the incredulous scapegoating:
  “He danced real fancy. Sorry.” (118:19)
  “No fancy-dancing Mexicans in rural Illinois in 1992. Doesn't exist.” (118:56)
• On Cumby’s self-sabotaging testimony:
  “If he just shut the fuck up, I'd go, ‘Maybe he's innocent’. But he got up in front of a judge and said, ‘they’re all liars’. He convinced me that he did it.” (182:25)
• On misogyny and entitlement:
  “The world does not owe you pussy. No, you gotta work for that shit… It’s the most arrogant thing anyone can do.” (133:12)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:01 – 14:48: Spring Grove background and comedy on small-town quirks
• 36:04 – 65:31: Kathy and John: backgrounds, relationship, abuse, stalking incidents
• 74:13: Kathy’s body found; discussion of injuries and crime scene
• 86:03: Cumby’s physical wounds and far-fetched explanations
• 94:45: Jailhouse confession, “I did it. So what?” moments
• 115:05: Cumby’s bizarre defense: “fancy-dancing Mexican”
• 154:50: Cumby’s disastrous sentencing speech, "I never hurt anyone. I think of myself as calm and serene."
• 155:45: Judge’s iconic line: "You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole."
• 182:25: Hosts’ closing reflections: Cumby’s own words proved his guilt

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Conclusion

This episode captures the tragic murder of a young woman at the hands of a controlling ex-cop, the failings of the criminal justice process, and the layers of forensic, legal, and psychological complexity involved in solving—and retrying—a murder case. The hosts bluntly spotlight the danger of unchecked male entitlement and domestic violence, while cutting through the darkness with comic relief and biting critique of small-town absurdities.

Final Reflection:
"If he just shut the fuck up, I'd go, ‘Maybe he's innocent.’ But he got up in front of a judge and said, ‘they’re all liars.’ He convinced me that he did it.” (182:25––James Petregallo)

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For bonus content and upcoming live show tickets, visit:
shutupandgivememurder.com

Transcript

[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Wayfair Every style Every home this week.

[James Petregallo]

In Spring Grove, Illinois. Detectives suspect an ex small town cop when his on again, off again girlfriend is found horribly murdered, mostly due to his violent past. But he insists that he, quote, only wants to help people. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely wild, crazy, downhill edition of Small Town Murder. We have a wild one as usual. And something special today that we have to talk about. We have to welcome Netflix viewers. Hello. Thank you Netflix viewers viewers for joining us today. Hello. We'll wave right at the camera for that one. Nice to see you guys. Thank you so much. We're very excited. And if you like this show, good news for you because this is episode 669. So that means there are 668 more episodes to catch up on wherever you listen to podcasts. So thanks for being here. You're gonna see a wild show. We can't wait to present this for you. Got a crazy murder. Gotta tell everybody. Head over to shut upandgivemerder.com tickets for live shows are available right now. A whole slate of 2026 live shows starting out February 21st in Nashville. Get them right now. Nashville sells hot so you gotta get them hot like their chicken fast. That's right. Then Durham on March 6. March 7 in Atlanta. Phoenix is sold out but your stupid opinions is still available. So get your tickets for that. Salt Lake City, sold out. We have Denver, almost. It's getting there. Buffalo, sold out. Royal Oak, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown and Boston. Get your tick. Come see us live. It is a blast. You'll be looking at us like you're looking at us now and everything, but we'll have them. They're so much fun. They're crazy. We have all the pictures and everything. It's a really good time. So definitely do that. Also listen to the other two shows we make, Crime and Sports and your stupid opinions. Then get yourself Patreon. That's what they should do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get everything that we put out. We're talking hundreds of back bonus episodes immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One crime and sports, one Small Town murder. And how much of that do they get?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jimmy, I think we're so crazy. You just have it all.

[James Petregallo]

We're crazy. We're crazy. The prices are insane. You get it all. And this week, no exception, for crime and sports, we're going to do one of our favorites, Old timey ads and just weird articles and medical things and it's a lot of fun. Then for Small Town Murder, Dean Coral Part 2. Let's catch up with Dean. Last time we left off with Dean, he's dead and there's 27 bodies that we found. And we're going to try to put this all together and connect it to John Wayne Gacy. So there's a lot going on there. Patreon.com CrimeInSports and in addition to all of that, you also get everything we put out. Crime in sports, Small Town Murder, your stupid opinions ad free. Free with your Patreon. That's the craziest part, which is amazing. And on top of that, you know, you get also a shout out at the end of the show. So we can't beat it. You can't beat it. Do that. Patreon.com crimeinsports and we also want to thank, by the way, before we go any further, thank Libson, who is our podcast network sells our ads for all the audio stuff, who were very supportive of this and are just really nice people and have done well for us so far. So they're our favorites. The favorite network we've ever been with. We like them a lot. Disclaimer time, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

Gotta do it. This is a comedy show.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is.

[James Petregallo]

We're comedians, people are gonna die, unfortunately. And there's gonna be jokes made. You go, how does that work? That sounds awful. No, no, no, no. You gotta do it tastefully. That's all it is. Yeah. What we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's pretty simple. If you do that, I mean, there's plenty to make fun of, too. You don'. Of the victims, you can make fun of a small town. We're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Some bumbling police force that has led a murderer go free to kill many more people. Or we make fun of murderers because we don't have any other recourse. We're comedians. What are we gonna do? Go down to the jail and make fun of them through the bars? Yeah. We can't really have no recourse. This is all we have. So we're gonna do that. And I think it's gonna be a good time, and I think you're gonna agree. And. And if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, we might not be for you. We might not. But I think you should give it a chance. Either way, no complaining later. We don't want to hear it. So that said, I think it's time, everybody, let's do this. Let's all clear the lungs here, arms to the sky, and let's all shout.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shut up and give me murder.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

We have to.

[James Petregallo]

We have to. And we, more importantly, we want to. That's the thing here. We're going to Spring Grove, Illinois. All right, this is in northeastern Illinois here. It's like a commutable suburb of Chicago, but it's really rural. It's weird. It's an hour and 15 minutes to Chicago and about an hour to Milwaukee. So you would think in between these two major metropolis, Northeast it would be. Yeah, Northeastern, where Chicago is. It's just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it stays on.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like up like that. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Geography is not my best.

[James Petregallo]

We'll work on it. That's all right. It's about 20 minutes to McHenry, Illinois, which was our last Illinois episode. Episode 629, the Killer Cookie Conspiracy. That was the guy just poisoning everybody. He's poisoning donuts, he's poisoning vegetables, he's poisoning everything. Nothing is safe to eat around this Guy. This is in McHenry County. So it's pretty same county as the other one. But this murder takes place right on a county line of Lake County. And that makes for some confusion also. And you get to see some real small town machinations going on here. It's good stuff. Area code here, 815. A little bit of history of this town. Okay. In the 1700s, the areas were occupied by the Potawatomi, as we found out. That's how it's pronounced. After many attempts that went awry, we were corrected.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Potawatomi.

[James Petregallo]

We tried a lot. We really did. I think it was Potawatta Tomi. But they're like, it's Tommy, not Tomi. Got it. We'll work on it. So this is. They named the Nipper Sink Sink Creek, which goes through Spring Grove and never. Sink is what they called it, which translates to a place of small waters. And then people named it Spring Grove when they found natural springs and groves of trees in the area. So Spring Grove and also the tall prairie grasses reminded the first English settlers of their homeland. So they named the area they settled, English Prairie. You know, English Prairie just south of Milwaukee.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know how it is because nobody's mowed it yet.

[James Petregallo]

That's all amazing. And they have the English Prairie cemetery and road and subdivision just to remind you that you're not the first people here. So it was established as an agricultural community in the 1830s. And we're gonna bring back something this week here. We're gonna bring back an old school thing that we used to do here. When I find the most boring fact possible, we call it the Sahara Desert Art fact of the week. The driest, most boring piece of information you can have. And I think this might be the best one of all time. Okay. The first vertical silo constructed in North America was built in 1873 by Fred Hatch on a small farm located in Spring Grove. Vertical?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Before that. They laid him out long enough. Yeah, he just laid them out long ways. Miles long silos. That's all they had.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's gotta be what it was, right?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I guess if they didn't build it high, they had to build it wide. Right. And what else can you do? That is the driest fact that is ever. This is the first one up here, huh? Yeah, yeah. First one in all of North America. So parts of the unincorporated Lake county, which is what it borders, also use Spring Grove's postal addresses as well. This is a commuter village. Everybody that lives here pretty much works in Chicago. It's one of those kind of places. So we don't know anything about this town. We've never been here. So the way we find out about towns is by reviews. So let's check out some people's reviews here. Here is one. Five stars. Perfect. Lovely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what they say.

[James Petregallo]

That's what they say. I was born and raised in Spring Grove and have met so many amazing people growing up. It may be a small town, however it is abundant with love.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

Oh boy. What does that mean? I don't know. Watch out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Are most small towns loveless?

[James Petregallo]

I feel like people are diddling you as you walk down the street. I don't like that at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cold and hate filled.

[James Petregallo]

They are hateful towns. That's it. We've covered some of those. Some hateful ones. That's true. Five stars here. The town is a great place filled with every store, shop or restaurant you could want to go to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

If they don't have it, it's your fault.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If we don't have it, it's because you don't want it.

[James Petregallo]

You don't want it. The school districts are some of the best in Illinois and I enjoy all the festivities. We have. Oh boy. Here's four stars. Small town with a tight knit community. But hard to get into if you're new and haven't grown up or raised kids. With the people who have been here a long time, some can be a little high maintenance. Not small town people. They could never high maintenance.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That midnight bloodletting ceremony, it's tough to get. There's a long waiting list.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta do it. Three stars. The area is more populated with small businesses rather than corporations. Not a good place to seek a six figure salary. Oh, I guess. Well, you know, it is an hour that way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That giant city I've heard tell of.

[James Petregallo]

Some very or that other big city that's an hour the other way. Most people don't have the option of working in two major cities an hour from their house. So. Yeah, you're pretty. You're doing well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The richest women in the planet is from an hour and a half from here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can make it. You can make.

[James Petregallo]

You can do it. People in this town, 5713. So not a huge town at all for being so close to Chicago. It's weird too because there's so many more men in this town than women usually it's. It's like national average is slightly more women than men and when we get a town over like a thousand, the stats are normal. And, you know, it's. It evens out. But here it's only 46.8% women, 53.2% men. I mean, I get it, Chicago, but they're having a sausage fest here. That's what they're doing. I think that's why.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of meat around here.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of meat. Median age here, 38.1. Just above the national average of about 38.4. Family in this town. This is a wife and kids out in the suburbs, you know, with a, you know, a lawn and, you know, lawn furniture and all that kind of thing. 71 point shorts. 70. Oh, you know that. 71.3% married, only 5.4% divorced. Oh, you're like, these people have money and they're not losing it to each other. They're like, we're just going to stay married because it's way too expensive to get a divorce. 44% are married with children. Only 7.3% are single with children. So it's very much. Everybody seems to stay together here. Race of this town here, 92.8% white, 0.0% black. Out an hour from Chicago and Milwaukee and no black people. That is interesting. Not a one, not one. 0.0. Not even nobody. Not one. Not a family. That's crazy. 0.3% Asian, 5.3% Hispanic. 54.1% of the people here are religious. And no shock here, because it is the north. And we've figured this out. Catholic is the Highest one here, 35.5% Catholic, as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North. We say that because if you do southern towns, every single one of them is 60% Baptist. And then you go to northern towns, they're all Catholic, so that's all it is. Then you get west and starts getting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Into all bets are off.

[James Petregallo]

All bets are off. You start stepping into little Mormon ponds and things like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's weird, wild militia country.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, then you get up there and it's. Yeah, they worship like AR15. That's the church of the AR. They give us just a bullet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's just the round.

[James Petregallo]

That's just like northern Idaho, though. We know that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So unemployment here, guns fired are the same round.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, unemployment here is right at the national average. But the median household income is cooking. They're doing well. Yeah, Median household income here, 131,735 bucks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So much for that not finding six figures.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I'm saying. What are you talking about? Everyone seems to be finding all six figures here, it's usually about 69,000 in the rest of the country. So you're almost double the national average.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're doing great.

[James Petregallo]

Quit complaining. Yeah, what are you doing Now? Cost of living 100 is average regular across the country here, it's 101.9. So pretty close to average.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pretty good.

[James Petregallo]

The housing here is actually lower than the national average. Median home cost here, $312,100. So it's almost to the point where it's just like a little more than double the average income is a home cost, which is an incredible statistic for affordability. That's not bad. That said here, if we've convinced you, the only damn place in this God's green earth that you're gonna be happy is Spring Grove, Illinois. We have for you the Spring Grove, Illinois real estate. Your average two bedroom rental here goes for $1,620, which is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's steep, right?

[James Petregallo]

That seems a little steep. Yeah, it's not cheap there. First house, it is a two bedroom, one bath, 613 square foot. Very small. It's just a little box. Nice little yard. It's green. Got a little fence next to you. That's nice. Little tiny box. It's a small lot here. Built a while ago. It looks like. It looks pretty old, but there's no built on date. $170,000 for this thing. It's just had a $5,000 price cut. It's small, man. It's just really small inside. The outside's kind of dingy. Could use a paint job. Your next house here, four bedroom, three bath. Wow. 2,983 square feet. So it's a good size. Decent size house there. 1.22 acre lot. Too nice. It's nice too, the way it sits. There's like woods behind it. So you don't really have a house right on top of you, which is pretty cool. It looks like the Clark Griswold. Griswold family. No, the Griswold family house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Griswold house. Oh, that's a great looking house.

[James Petregallo]

Two story with the, you know, garages and everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Have the little round spot where you can look out from the attic.

[James Petregallo]

I believe it does for house. It has a storage for 25,000 Italian imported twinkling lights. I believe it has enough storage for that. You can put it all up there, which is helpful. You're going to need that 544,900 bucks for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my.

[James Petregallo]

It's steep. It's a little steep. So the next one is the most ridiculous house I've ever seen on the real estate report in almost 700 episodes. And that is a four bedroom, five bath way we like to say T bowl for each and every B hole, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All of them. One left and one to spare.

[James Petregallo]

One to spare for the neighbors. 3,712 square feet. It's a castle. Look at the. Can you see this thing up there?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What the fuck is that?

[James Petregallo]

It's a castle, dude. It's got turrets. It's got a bound to live in that. No, it's got a spot to dump hot oil on people as they try to approach. It's really nice.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a moat. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Inside looks like your standard midwestern American house. Beautiful. There's no like, you know, dungeon or anything cool like that. No like rounded stone staircases to sword fight on. Nothing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just a freezer full of tots.

[James Petregallo]

That's just a Costco supply in the. In your. In your. In your chest freezer there. $1,200,000 for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But that's a million dollars worth of brickwork.

[James Petregallo]

It's a lot. Yeah. The facade on the front is silly. It's got like a big gate with like lions on it and shit. It's. I don't know what kind of fantasy you're living if you want to live there, but it's something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Million bucks is pretty decent.

[James Petregallo]

It's not bad, especially that close to Chicago. It's not bad if you're in the market for.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you've got a.

[James Petregallo]

If you've got a million dollars and you want to live in something that looks like somebody's four year old daughter designed it, then yeah, you should do that. Get after it, bud. Things to do here. Now we're cooking. All right. It is the B4. B4 Summer Festival. So when does that take place, you think? Probably after summer in October. What is before next summer in early June. So just before summer, Right before almost summer. They should call it festival Just about Summer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're really parson. That's barely not summer.

[James Petregallo]

We're just on the panty line of summer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All the midwestern humidity you can handle.

[James Petregallo]

Just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not technically summer yet.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. But you will sweat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy. Will you?

[James Petregallo]

It says bacon sizzles. Bands rock, bourbon flows. Beers, cheers. The ultimate party for a purpose.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. There's a lot of alliteration, huh?

[James Petregallo]

All sorts of shit going on there. They say craft beer, fireworks, bourbon tasting, zip lining, pedal carts, jump zones, food trucks. Oh, the privilege of paying an Admission fee for buying food from a truck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For normal.

[James Petregallo]

You normally don't get that amazing experience. You can't find that in any other parking lot in America. And I like how all of the activities are the most dangerous things you can do. After drinking beer and eating and drinking bourbon while getting trashed, you want to go zip lining and jump zoning for maximum splash ability. It's awful.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You really get a lot of people with your puke.

[James Petregallo]

You can do it. But we do have music. Oh boy, do we have music. DJ Mark S. Which is asses with an E. That's exactly what it is. We have the Pino Farina Band.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Old Pino Farina. And I love how. Here's their description. This is my favorite. This multi talented band is led by a charismatic singer who gracefully balances their performance with passion and energy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He also writes descriptions of their band. I feel of himself. Of himself. They have an eclectic set list and add their own style to many of the songs that they play. They will also add in their fan favorite originals as well. Yeah. That's what everyone wants to hear. The Pino Felina bands. Huge, huge fan favorites. They'll rush the stage if they don't play them. That's the thing. They'll burn it down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jimmy Scream and play the hits.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They call them the Pinos. Those are their fans. Those people are. They're aggressive. They have stormed onto the scene since COVID Okay. And we'll leave you looking for when they play next. All right. Can't wait for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Clamoring for.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The next up is Rock Brigade.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Roc, by the way. Or Rok. I'm sorry, Rok Brigade. It is a quote super group of Chicagoland's top musicians that have come together and failed together. Come together to be the middling band on a shitty festival where people are dying while bourbon drunk.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The best Chicagoland has to offer, collectively coming together to open for Pino. Whatever the fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Pino Farina. I believe Pino Farina is the opener. Yeah. Going toward the headliner, I think Rock Brigade is middling. Here to bring you a tribute band that fires on extra cylinders. Now you might wonder, what are they tributing? What is this?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Extra cylinders. They got them spare.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah. Based on that, who do you think they're covering?

[Jimmy Whisman]

High octane Nickelback.

[James Petregallo]

Was the most random. Fucking Nickelback. Nickelback cover band playing the biggest and best of Def Leppard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy. All the way from Rock of Ages all the way to Rocket.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Was that one.

[James Petregallo]

That was the name of A song and an album here. They're gonna pour some sugar on you. No, they don't, thankfully. But it says their show is inclusive. Impressive, high energy and flat out all caps. Rocks. It rocks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

When they hit the B Force Fest stage, they will all caps Armageddon it. Which if you're not, that is a Def Leppard song.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why did you swing so hard?

[James Petregallo]

That is bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's so terrible.

[James Petregallo]

I could have said there will be hysteria. That would have been better.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They will rock it. That's the easy one, isn't it?

[James Petregallo]

It will be Rock of Ages. They will. Yeah, you will. Want to take a photograph? All right, We've covered all the death.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Levels on that occasion.

[James Petregallo]

And then finally, the modern day Romeos. Okay, they say the MDR has. I like the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ah, they got an acronym, baby.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're not queens of the Stone Academy.

[James Petregallo]

Listen, we're the mdr. Listen, Jimmy, don't tell me that. Don't diss Modern day Romeos. Come on. Ah. They seem like they're trying. MDR has been one of the most successful party bands in chicagoland for over 20 years. You never know where the set list is going to take you. And no two shows are the same. Oh, we're a mess.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We learn a new cover every week.

[James Petregallo]

It's all fucked up. If we mess it up in the middle of it, we just stop. Play something else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, amazing.

[James Petregallo]

I know. What? They're not going to be playing Def Leppard. I think the crowds should be all leoparded out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're gonna be exhausted with the DL.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy. And here's my favorite. When you see their name headlining a fest, leave your boring pants at home and wear your participants to this party. I give up. I give up. It's too much, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Your boring pants.

[James Petregallo]

Your boring pants. Bring your participants. There's also a Tulip Festival. And guess what they have there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Participants.

[James Petregallo]

Tulips. To put in your participants stuff. Over 350,000 bulbs. That's exciting. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, let's get into what we're interested here. Crime rate in this town. Property crime is low. It's about one third of the national average, so 2/3 below. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is also about 1/3 of the the national average, so that's great. This place is very safe. Incredibly safe. Seems incredibly safe. That said, let's talk about some horrible murder that happened here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do it.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do this. Okay, now our story. Much of it takes place in 1992. So sometimes what we like to do here for new people is we like to set the tone. Where are we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do you remember it? You think you remember it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Where are we as a society? Because that's a lot of things. You'll think, oh, that's like that. And you go, no, that was the early 90s, not the late 90s. And so we like to just kind of set a tone and really give you a cultural basis of where we are here. So 1992. We'll talk about some really quickly. The top movies of 1992, because that's one of those that really set you in an era. Number one movie of 1992, Jimmy. That's a lot to tell. Number one movie. Number one movie of 92.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For Red October.

[James Petregallo]

No. Batman Returns.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The Keaton one. That one's great.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The second Keaton.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nicholson.

[James Petregallo]

That's Danny DeVito, I think. Oh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Penguin One.

[James Petregallo]

Got it. Yeah. Lethal Weapon 3 is number two. Sister Act.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Still too old for this.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Sister act. Home alone 2.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Wayne's world, Basic Instinct. A League of Their Own.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Great. Time to be Alive.

[James Petregallo]

This is like the T every the 90s TBS lineup. That's all this is. They just played the top hits of 92 over and over.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shitloads of commercials of Michael Jordan and Larry Bird shooting a game of horse. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Over. A Big Mac.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Big Mac over.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. With a Big Mac on the line. Aladdin. Hand that Rocks the Cradle. That was a good one. Under Siege, Steven Seagal was in the top 10 in 1990.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can you believe that?

[James Petregallo]

This was a disturbing time in our history. Folks, I'm going to tell you right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now, think America's a mess right now. But Steven Seagal at least is not in the top 10 movies.

[James Petregallo]

No. If he made a movie, you wouldn't even hear about it, which is great. Patriot Games, Dracula. The Bodyguard. White Men Can't Jump. Fried Green Tomatoes. Now here we go, the top songs. We'll do these real quick, Jimmy. Number one song of 1992. Billboard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Billboard. Fucking that.

[James Petregallo]

Number one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But it's Boys to men.

[James Petregallo]

You got it. No. Oh, my God. You did. Oh, my God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sometimes you. Broken clocks, James.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, we gotta stop recording. Everything stops. We gotta go celebrate. This is insane. I'm so happy right now. We've done this, like hundreds of times.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And it's number one draft pick on crime and sports. What do you think?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Never gonna happen.

[James Petregallo]

You got it right? How'd you pick that out of your ass? I'm so impressed right now. That's awesome.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's an absolute guess. I assure you that.

[James Petregallo]

Well, Boys II Men, End of the road. You did it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a great song.

[James Petregallo]

It's good, sir. Mix a lot. Baby got back number two.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's so wealthy because of that song.

[James Petregallo]

He still works because of that song.

[Jimmy Whisman]

$30 million he made from that song.

[James Petregallo]

Only he goes from casino to casino all around this country and just makes playing that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Following up with Posse on Broadway and we all love it.

[James Petregallo]

And then followed by two people who don't make a lot of money. I don't think off this song, Kris Kross. I don't think Chris and Cross are.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Both not doing well.

[James Petregallo]

They're wearing their clothes the right way now and everything. It's weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Showing up to job interviews.

[James Petregallo]

Vanessa Williams, Save the Best for Last. Tlc, Eric Clapton, Tears in Heaven, En Vogue. Never Gonna get It. Red Hot Chili Peppers, under the Bridge. Color Me Bad. Oh, that was the worst shit we've ever produced. What? Yeah, so bad. John Cicada. No, this was all for love.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They did that dance.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That one got real bad.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that real boy bandy. Yeah, that was bad. John Cicada, Shanice, Mr. Big. Oh, that shit was awful. Just to be the next to be with you. I'll wait for the guy you're with now to leave and then I'll jump right in there with you. What do you say?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the love song version of I'd eat a mile of your shit.

[James Petregallo]

I think so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Man, I'd love to be in a pool of another guy's jizz is what that says. Thanks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just to be the guy that uses that as lube.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. I'll be there for you. Just to be with you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the anthem of all the cocks.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. 13. Write said Fred. Yes, I'm too sexy. He only had one song. Which song is that? Gee, I wonder. I'm trying. No, that's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I dug in my head. What was this other hit?

[James Petregallo]

Nope, that's the one. Michael Jackson, Black or White. And finally, Billy Ray Cyrus. Achy Breaky Heart. Jesus Christ. We were in a bad place. So that said, let's get into some people here, okay? Let's talk about a woman. Okay. Yeah, let's talk about Kathleen. Kathy. She goes by Twarowski. Tw A R O W S K I. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

SimpliSafe.coms I M P L I Safe dot com.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. That's what it's the place to be. That's where you keep your house secure and the people in it and all of your things. Because you know how after you might hear a small town murder episode in certain cases, you might want to, you know, double check those door locks and all that. We do the same thing. We're not. We're freaked out by it all too. But we just don't want home security that goes off after someone's already inside. Because as you know from the show, it's worthless at that point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

They're already slaughtering your whole family. What's the difference? There's an alarm going off. Great. No, you need Simplisafe. Traditional security is basically saying, hey, someone got in Simplisafe. They don't mess around. They do it before that. Simplisafe home security is different because it's built to stop crimes before they start. They've got this double layer of defense. They have these AI powered cameras that can spot a real threat while they're still outside your home and alert live monitoring agents. And those agents, they don't just hang around and watch what they're doing. They call the cops. They do. They can talk to the intruder. They can go, hey, hey, stupid, get out of here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that yours?

[James Petregallo]

Does this belong to you? Is this your house? I didn't think so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Are you lost?

[James Petregallo]

No. Yes, clearly you are. And the police are on the way. And they can even trigger a loud siren alarm and a spotlight if they need to. So it's not all, you know, you see a notification in time that you can do it, they're doing this for you. We love Simplisafe. Everything we have is protected by Simplisafe Studios, homes, you name it. We don't trust anybody else but Simplisafe, and we have for years. It's fantastic. Simplisafe's been named one of the best home security systems by U.S. news World Report for five years in a row. And it's trusted by over 5 million people, including us, to help protect their homes. So protect your home with SimpleLife and get 50% off any new system for a limited time, just go to SimpliSafe. That's SimpliSafe. S I m p l I safe dot com. Small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thrive Market.com.

[James Petregallo]

That'S the one Jimmy ThriveMarket.com you will be thriving with Thrive Market. Healthy's hard. We get that the Thrive Market will help you make it easy. You can just with the small swaps, little things that you can swap out can help so much. Trusted ingredients and personalized shopping that fits your lifestyle. Thrive Market is the easiest way to make better choices without feeling overwhelmed. All delivered straight to your door. And they really do. They have so much stuff. Just little things you can swap out like sour candy, gluten. So they have these awesome chips that are really good that I didn't even know were gluten free and I'm eating them like crazy. I love their tortillas, tortilla chips that they have others to snack stuff. It's so good and not terrible for you. That's what's great. You can actually eat better and do better with Thrive Market. And it's so simple to do. It really is. I mean it's. You don't want it to feel like all these sacrifices. You want to feel like you're living your life. You work all day, you come home, you want to sacrifice more. No, you need something decent. So healthy living, it's not. Doesn't have to be boring, doesn't have to be expensive. Thrive Market will get you where you need to go. If eating better feels overwhelming, that's because you're not shopping in the right place. Yeah. I'm telling you right now. Healthy eating does not have to feel like it's a restrictive diet saying no all the time. Thrive Market makes it easy to say yes to thousands of healthier versions of your favorites without giving up on taste or breaking the bank. They make it easy. Scan anything with the barcode scanner that they have and it instantly swaps it out for a better version of that. That's so cool. So you don't have to go searching for it. But personalized shopping is also great that they have here. Instead of the struggle of trying to figure out what foods fit your health goals, Thrive Market will do the hard work for you easily. Shop by 90 diet and lifestyle filters to find exactly what you want without second guessing. High protein meals, low sugar meals, GLP1 friendly options or gluten free staples. AI powered cart remembers your habits, cutting decision fatigue out too. You don't have to think because Thrive Market knows what you like so they'll bring it with you. And also, Thrive Market ensures the food you eat has the healthiest quality, the highest quality, the healthiest quality, and free of 600 plus sketchy ingredients. So Every choice is verified by experts and it feels intentional and safe. And it's great. Thrive Market's great. It's an easy way to shop. Really excellent for finding the healthy stuff to switch out. We use it. I think you should use it. Honestly. That's our advice as friends. Go out and get Thrive Market. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com smalltown murder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Rouse. Plenty of skis in this area, by the way, between Milwaukee and Chicago. That is ski country, you can call that. That's what it is with no hills and even in the summer it's all always ski.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't get confused with Colorado.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. Now, she is born in 1971. Kathy is. She is born to her mother Elizabeth, who goes by Betty as half the women in 1955 went by was Betty. She's got a father named Bob, got brothers named Richard and Brad. Richard goes by Rick. So she's the oldest of the three kids. From what I've gathered here, Kathy is one. She's a real loyal young lady. She's real loyal. She keeps her friends from. She has a friend, her best friend since grade school, still her best friend when she. She's 20, you know what I mean, Jessica. So I mean she's a loyal, kind of a sweet young lady actually from everything I've heard here, and a good student. She went to Grant High School where the assistant superintendent was a math teacher. When she was there, she went to Fox lake School from 84 to 88. And the math teacher said it was really nice because after she graduated she left me a picture of her. She gave me a wallet size of her. Just handing out wallets, not just a picture.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Take this with you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, here you go. This is for you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here's a road.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not bad. And she's real a nice young lady. Very pretty too. And striking. She's blonde, she's five' ten, you know what I mean? Blue eyes. She's a striking young lady for sure. Everybody notices her. Really nice. One person said, this is the math teacher said, what keeps coming back to me as I think about this person is that winning smile, that laugh that we wound up every conversation with. She's always laughing, always smiling. She was a really good student. She was also a four year member of the girls basketball team. She belonged to the student council, was a member of the Students Against Drunk Driving.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very cool.

[James Petregallo]

As well as the school's in Touch team, which sounds gross.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I Don't like that.

[James Petregallo]

I don't like that at all. Sounds like Mr. Big is gonna sing about it in his next hit. But it's students promoting alternatives to drug abuse. So she's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's the alternative to drug abuse?

[James Petregallo]

Being really bored.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I thought alcohol was the alternative. She's against that too.

[James Petregallo]

I guess she's against it all here. But this is that she went to school. This is the just say no era, the end of it and all that stuff. So kids were real into that rather than now they're just like, eh, whatever you want to do. Mind your own business. I don't care. Knock yourself out. She also participated in interscholastic academic competitions. So she's not just an athlete and just socially into stuff. She also is really smart and she was a member of the National Honor Society during her junior and senior years. Her teacher said she was a splendid student. She was indeed a wonderful young lady when she was here. Yeah, terrific. Now let's introduce her to somebody else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who's that?

[James Petregallo]

Somebody is a little older than her. She's going to have a hankering for and she's going to get to like here In September of 1989 when she's 18, she meets a guy named John A. Cumbee. C U M B E E. Cumby.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He was a cop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bullied hard.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah. Everybody just called him Jizz Hornet and threw things at him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, spooge wasp. And they were like just throwing. Disgusting. Yeah. That is gross shit. But you don't want to get stung by the cumbee. That sounds awful. You get pregnant, that's gonna say you'll get way more than a little redness and swelling. I think if you get stung by the cumby. Mom. Get hepatitis. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got stung by the gumby.

[James Petregallo]

The come bee. Mom. Ow. I got stung by a come bee. Oh, no. We need to go to the emergency room right now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You will swell off. You will look allergic to that.

[James Petregallo]

You certainly will. Now John a. Cumby's about 11 years older than her. He's born in 1960. He is a divorced father of two. Not quite. He's in the middle of a divorce when they meet. Oh. So he's a 29 year old guy who just had his last son in 1988. The year before. And he's married to. This is maybe the weirdest name ever, Connie Cumby. That's his wife's name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's like a cartoon character.

[James Petregallo]

Connie Cumby. It absolutely does. From the Incredibles. We have to fight. Well, Connie Cumby, she turns into a bee and then we know what happens from there. So they're not quite divorced yet. Now you would think this is sweet. They start dating in September. 89. I mean it'd be nice if he was fully divorced and a little closer to her age. Yeah, no, and I mean 10 years isn't bad, but 18 and 29 is a big difference. Pretty wild, you know what I'm saying? Like 35 years old.

[Jimmy Whisman]

18, 29, divorced with 2. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 18, 29, divorced with two kids. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

And he's a cop, so it's like a cop. A divorced cop with two kids has way different life experience than an 18 year old girl who just graduated high school or young lady or whatever you want to call her. A hot smart girl. Yeah, a hot smart girl. Yeah. But he's attracted to her. But you might go, okay, well maybe they had a lot in common. Maybe he's swashbuckling in his uniform and she's into that, or she's into a guy in uniform or whatever it is. Now she's living with her parents when they hook up. He was a former police sergeant, or was at this time a police sergeant in Sunnyside. So he's even got a promotion. He'll later train as a paramedic. Now here's a story from his cop days to tell you what kind of guy he is. Here a lot of people say that knew him around the force say he became a police officer to quote, live out a power trip. Which is the worst reason to become a police officer for everybody around you. You'll feel better, but no one else will.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He was bullied for that dumb fucking last name.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And now he wants to be a cop and make everybody pay for it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Say my name. With respect, Sergeant. Come be. Say it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Say Jizz Hornet. Say it again.

[James Petregallo]

I dare you to call me Sergeant Jizhornet. I dare you. I dare you to. So one of the district attorneys in the area said that he disgraced the law enforcement profession. That's a grim endorsement from your superior there. One man here, a guy named John Palladino, who was 29 years old, testified against Cumby later on that John Cumby threw him up against a car, busted his lip, punched him in the face and held a gun to his head, threatening to blow his head off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Now you would think he must have caught him like in a sixth grade girls locker room or something with his dick out. No, he made the. I mean he did take some liberties this Guy, he made the insane error of driving with a burned out turn signal that earned him this rebuke that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Got you a cumby ass kicking and a gun in your mouth.

[James Petregallo]

That got you cumbied right there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. So how did they meet? You ask this how? This brutal cop and this nice young lady, something magical at the grocery store. You know, they both reach for the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Same mango, grab an apple together. Oh, this is your. You take it.

[James Petregallo]

You like Gala? I love Gala.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, they're my cosmic crisp.

[James Petregallo]

Not quite how they met as a matter of fact. Wow. They met.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's shoplifting.

[James Petregallo]

They met when she was in junior high school. What? She was a 12 year old when they met and he was a cop. They met because he would make rescue calls to their neighborhood in rural Fox Lake and he knew all the kids in the area and he was apparently scouting for later sexual dalliances. I don't know what's going on here. And later she would see him, you know, when she was in high school, she would see him at high school football games.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He's the guy who's in his late 20s, has no little brother playing or anything and still goes to high school football games.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, that's so bad.

[James Petregallo]

Outside of Texas, that's considered really aberrant, weird, strange behavior.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's nuts, you guys.

[James Petregallo]

That's wild in the upper Midwest. They do not do that. Once you graduate, you never go back again. I've never since the moment that myself and my high school decided to part ways. I can't say since I graduated high school.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Mutual breakup of you and your high school.

[James Petregallo]

Since then, I've never. It was a mutual breakup. It was. The principal called. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We both thought we were better than each other.

[James Petregallo]

You know, the principal called me in. He knew my grandfather used to cut his hair. So he knew me. He sat me down and he went, what are we doing here? You're two months away from the end of this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You don't like me?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he said, no, that was the thing. We got along fine. He goes, doesn't look like you're going to graduate here, but you keep showing up. And I'm like, I do. And he said, I mean, it's. You're not causing any trouble. It's fine, you know. He goes, but what's your plan? And I went, I don't know. I'm gonna hang out for a while. And you know, this is where all the girls are. I mean, yeah, yeah. People that buy weed are all here. Everything's all where I need it to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Be everything I do is here. So, I mean, apart from the homework.

[James Petregallo]

But I'm not doing that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All the other shit is here.

[James Petregallo]

They want like final stuff. Yeah. You know, not doing any of those things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But I won't be here for that day.

[James Petregallo]

I'll definitely show up till just about the end and wander off. But ever since that day, I've never been back. That's what I'm trying to get at.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I was so done. I smoked a cigarette. After I walked and got my diploma, I sat back down in the chair and lit a cigarette and I was like, obviously this is over. They can't do anything to me now. No, no, I'm certainly smoking this right here.

[James Petregallo]

At least they didn't tell you. Why are you coming here?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, they tried their damnedest to get me the hell out of there.

[James Petregallo]

It didn't work.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, it did work. I ended up graduating, but they had to put up with me for four years.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy's like a come be. Once he's on you, boy, he's in you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're gonna have to do the paperwork to get me out of here.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta do some serious paperwork here. So they started dating in September of 89 when she's 18 years old and he's a 29 year old cop, like we said, after meeting her as a child, patrolling her neighborhood. This is creepy. January 1990. Things aren't going well in John's divorce where he's trying to get here. They can't be because Connie Cumby gets an order of protection against John.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, against him.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Claims are here that he beat her with his gun. Wow. Like pistol whipped.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His pistol whipped is. I mean, what is that at that point?

[James Petregallo]

Separated wife.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The defendant now.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, wait, the plaintiff, I would say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, the plaintiff now.

[James Petregallo]

So John says it's such bullshit because at the time my then police chief had all my guns. Oh, because that means you're doing well when someone else has all your guns.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You told your police chief about every one of them. I don't believe you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And yeah, that's a bad sign too, because when you do something really bad, what's the first thing in a movie? What's the police captain say? What's he want on his desk?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, badge and gun.

[James Petregallo]

Badge and gun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pass them over.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, so that's bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he said all of them, which.

[James Petregallo]

Means all of them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He doesn't want him to have a single one. No.

[James Petregallo]

If he's got a squirrel hunting rifle, the chief has it so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he kept the ankle pistol.

[James Petregallo]

Evidently I couldn't have beat her because I didn't have any guns. That's his excuse. Not I didn't beat her, just all my guns are taken. So. April 1990, Kathy is working here. She switches jobs. She had been working part time at the St Therese Hospital in Waukegan before going to the. What is this? It's a rehabilitation center called Condal in April of 1990. Her whole thing is she wants to do therapy and rehabilitation stuff with people for injured people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She wants to have physical therapy, shit like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, physical therapy. That's what she's into. Thank you. I couldn't think of the term. August 1990, they've been together for less than a year. Mm. And she moves in with him. Yeah, I don't know if this is just a young lady who wants to get out of her parents house and you know, get into that, you know, get into a relationship. It gets pretty serious pretty quick as well here. May 1991, Kathy and John buy a house together. Damn, that's serious. I mean, yeah, you're tying each other like 30 years worth of financial responsibility. You're pulling up together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So kind of genius on her part, right, yet that she's got half a house now for suresies.

[James Petregallo]

Except now she's like, she has to stay in it with this guy if she doesn't like him, which is till.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She'S 50 or kind of weird. I mean, if you don't like him, you make him sell it, get your name off it and you got half a house.

[James Petregallo]

Well, we'll find out what she did pretty quick here because in May they buy it. By June, she moves back in with her parents. So that didn't last very long.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was a fast. I don't think there's enough equity yet, lady.

[James Petregallo]

It takes longer for the house to close than that from the time you buy it. So she moves back in, it's only for about three weeks, and then she moves right back in with old Cumberglar there. So her job at this point, she is the assistant in the physical therapy department at Condill Medical center. So in Libertyville, 1991, in November, so she lasts through the summer, they go see the B4 Festival, the Pino Farina band. Heals all wounds. You know how that goes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put on your participants.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my. They're on, baby. For mdr. We just got Armageddon by Rock, whatever the hell that was. November 1991, Kathy moves back in with her parents.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, this is called the cycle.

[James Petregallo]

This is not. Yeah, not good. This is not good already. I mean, she's 20 years old, and this is not a relationship she needs right now. It's just not. I can't do that. No. Hopefully her friends and family are advising her this is probably a bad idea, but if you do that too much because she is still young, you're just gonn drive her toward him anyway, so it's tough. So you might ask, why does she move back in with her parents? What happened? Let's let Helen Cybisky talk about it here. This is on November 19, 1991. Helen Cybisky worked with her from 90 to 92 and said that she was like a second mother to Kathy. Now, November 19, 1991. In the early morning, she gets a crying, the way she puts it, crying hysterically call from Kathy. Okay, Kathy's losing it. Helen tells Kathy to come to her house. Kathy arrives 30 seconds later. So she must have been very close.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So fast.

[James Petregallo]

Real from a payphone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She was on the curb.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck. Yeah. Well, there's no cell phones. Really?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, she's got a payphone out front of her house.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. She's right out front. She lives in a gas station, this lady. Actually, she lives back by the 10w30. Don't worry about it. Now, Sabisky meets her in the driveway and notices that Kathy's face was extremely red and she had marks on her throat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

On her throat. So that's a lot. She said that Kathy was crying hysterically and saying, helen, this is fucked up. This time. I thought he was going to kill me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

You might get distracted by the kill me part. I'm focusing on, not you people. This time is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah, you tell me where to be, Gary.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. I knew you knew where you were. So scary. So Kathy shows Helen places on her head where it looks like small portions of her hair have been pulled out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

This is horrifying. Kathy also tells Helen that Jeanne had thrown her onto a bed and put his hands around her neck. So this is awful. This is not great. December 31st, New Year's Eve, 1991, going into 92. Michelle Gast, who's a close friend of Kathy since high school, said that night that Kathy, Michelle Gast and a group of friends all went to Chicago to celebrate New Year's Eve. Yeah, they were just. They didn't have major plans. They just wanted to be in the city for New Year's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So they go to do that. They go to a Hotel room and check in and, you know, figure out what the plans are for the evening. Because where are we gonna go and celebrate? So at the last minute. Now, this is very important that this was not planned at the very last minute. They're just, you know, let's go here. So they decide to go to the Hard Rock Cafe. Mm. How nice to be alive. Yeah, either that or Planet Hollywood, guys, what do you think?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Either way, you're eating shitty macaroni and cheese that they dressed up.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but am I going to look at Stallone's jacket from Judge Dredd, or am I going to look at the guitar player from Dawkins? Which one is it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A vague reference in a movie or a vague reference in a song? Either way, I'm eating shitty macaroni and cheese.

[James Petregallo]

Or am I going to look at Def Leppard's one arm drum kit? Yeah, that's what's set up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just one drumstick here.

[James Petregallo]

This is. This is crazy. So they decide to go to Hard Rock when they arrived. Guess who's there? It's John.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, John's there.

[James Petregallo]

John is waiting by the entrance, standing there. There is no possible way he could know where. That's what I mean. How did they decided this at the last minute? How the hell. He should be a Detective, figure out Sgt. He's wasting his time checking people in in the morning. This is ridiculous. So he's out there now. This was unusual, the friend said, because he wasn't. They weren't aware he would be there. And no one invited him. And they didn't even know where they were gonna go. So they had one drink at the Hard Rock Cafe and they left. They were like, let's not make a scene. We'll go in, we'll have a drink, and then we'll just leave. So they left.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It'll look bizarre if we just walk away.

[James Petregallo]

Feel like run away. Yeah, yeah. He's gonna follow us. So the friend, Michelle, said she didn't recall seeing him again that night. He was gone. Okay, yeah. So that's. They saw him then. So now, less than two weeks later, January 11, 1992. Yeah, this is at Bogey's nightclub. Yeah. Is that like a 40s theme? Like you're doing Casablanca or some Humphrey Bogart? Oh, yeah, just a guy in a white dinner jacket smoking all over you. So Laura Hill, who's another close friend of Kathy since high school. See, all of her friends are since high school. She came to the same people. She said that night they went to an event at Bogey's nightclub. And around 10pm, that's when they arrived. That's when they go out. People are.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a good idea.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Cause it's before. It's when people are feeling good, but before they get handsy and start fighting and punching each other.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And it's when all the real fun stuff is happening. You go out seven, people are loose. Yeah. You go out 7pm Everybody's hammered by nine.

[James Petregallo]

No one's even buzzed yet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

By seven, you're puke before the fun happens.

[James Petregallo]

That's no good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Like we've seen go out late. You go out late, but not too late because then everybody's a mess. Ten is a good sweet spot. So they go out, they arrive at the club. Then after about 30 minutes, here comes John at Bogies. At Bogies, they're like, what the. How does this guy know where the fuck we're going all the time? Like, what is happening? So that's insane. He ended up. John pulls Kathy onto the dance floor. So her friend Hill here grabs another friend to dance, and they dance the way she said, right beside them to see what's going on and to protect Kathy. They all. This is crazy. They watch him bite her on the cheek, bite her in the dance, during the dance. I don't know any dance where you bite, so that's not part of it. He then grabbed her and she's bleeding. And he takes her to the bathroom. So, okay, she's bleeding from the face. Yeah. And in the bathroom now. In the bathroom here. After this, some bouncers from the club escorted him out because the friend went, this guy's biting my friend, bleeding. So they get him out of there. The friend said that she saw that Kathy had been bitten on the cheek, nose and mouth. She's got bite marks, the whole face just bite. Bit her. That's his idea. I'm gonna go bite her face up. A friend of hers since grade school, a guy named Brian, said that he was surprised to see John at bogeys that night. And when he saw Kathy and John dancing and then going to the bathroom, he said he saw Kathy, quote, all bit up. And that's when they called the police, said, come get one of your own here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So when they leave the nightclub, this is her friend Hill and Kathy, they leave together. They found Kathy's GEO tracker. She had like a brand new GEO Tracker, White.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hell, yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That is some hot shit in 92 for a young lady.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, that's a specific car.

[James Petregallo]

It's very special.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The answer to Suzuki's Samurai.

[James Petregallo]

I was just gonna say it was between that and the Samurai, but Samurai had they tip over too many times. Your dad wouldn't go for it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The Geo just didn't go.

[James Petregallo]

It just didn't go. Yeah, this is safe. It only goes 46 miles an hour. This is perfectly safe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It makes no tracks, it finds no tracks.

[James Petregallo]

And it's not going all around the earth by far. So when they get out there, they see the windows are bashed in, the convertible top is slashed open, and their leather coats are all missing from the truck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And somebody took the coats.

[James Petregallo]

He robbed them. He not only vandalized, but he robbed them too, which is ridiculous. Now. January 1992, let's go. It's still the same month. Forward a little bit. This is when Betty, Kathy's mom, said that she noticed something changed the relationship between John and Kathy. Betty said she observed bite marks on her face, nose and tongue as well. On Kathy, her tongue. So Bob, who's her father, took her to a medical center to treat the injuries. And they take pictures of it, which is put into evidence and all that. So it's all documented anyway, which is good. The Cook County Sheriff's Office also arrested John January 15, 1992, for battery and violating an order of protection. That's not even against her. That's against Connie Cumby. Oh, so he is. He's out on like a retribution attack. Like, I'm going to bite her face. I'm gonna go beat up my ex wife. Yeah, I'm on this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So cops shouldn't be able to keep their job if they're arrested, especially for like, let's say violent crimes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, no, yeah, no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you're arrested, you shouldn't be a cop, right?

[James Petregallo]

Well, I mean, anybody could be arrested if you're. You know what I'm saying?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I suppose they can be arrested. Yeah. Convicted, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, if you're convicted for sure. You know what? You should keep your nose fucking clean.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm sorry, arrested on violent charges. Yes. Let's suspend with pay until you pay.

[James Petregallo]

Any time you're suspended, you get no pay. That's the other thing I hate about this. If you're suspended, if you're not. If you're doing something that doesn't allow you to be at work. I'm not fucking paying you. And I mean me as the taxpayer, we're not paying you. If you fucked up, we're not going to pay you while we figure out how badly you fucked up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay? And then upon adjudication, you decide whether or not. You get your fucking job back.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, exactly. That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Go bag groceries until. Or whatever the fuck we've had jobs. Figure this out.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. If they told you to go home and don't come back for two weeks, think they're send you a paycheck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no, no.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely not. No job I ever had would do that. Maybe if you had. I never had a good job, so maybe that's fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I had one good job that did, would and did.

[James Petregallo]

Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That worked out pretty great.

[James Petregallo]

You were lucky. Yeah. You didn't show up for four years. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Six, six.

[James Petregallo]

Six years. So, yeah, with a cop though, it's like. It's bad enough we have criminals running around. I'm not paying for you to be a criminal too. You know I'm gonna pay your salary also, right? Yeah, no, I don't think so.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just think any. Anybody. I don't think anybody with a record should be a cop. That's just. I think that, that. Jesus Christ.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, absolutely not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. That shouldn't be a thing, right? No. They do, right? Yes.

[James Petregallo]

I worked at a gas station where you couldn't be a criminal if I had to pass a background check to do shit like that. You have to keep a little clean to be a cop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think I had to pass a background check to sell a fucking TV at Best Buy. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I'm saying? It's crazy. So, February 1992. This is Frigates, frigates. F R I G A T E. Frigate. Frigate. Frigate. Fragatti, Frogatti.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fragate.

[James Petregallo]

Fragatte. It's a Fragatte. Zenith Club. We're going.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a beautiful red sauce.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's so beautiful. You come in. The meatballs are so nice. That are so nice. February 1992. Hill here, that's her friend. Hill and Kathy and a group of friends were leaving the club when Hill thought she noticed John's truck in the back of the parking lot. Okay, at this point, run. This is scary. Kathy and another friend left the lot parking lot first. Then some other friends followed in their car. The truck left then and followed. Following the truck that John was in is Hill and her friend. So there's like a little parade going out here. Hill wasn't sure, but she thought the license plate on the truck read FF or F for Fox Lake Fire Department. Oh, yeah. So later it was revealed that the plate on John's truck read flffemt. Fox Lake Fire Department. Fox Lake Fire. Emergency Medical technician Because by this time he's an EMT school.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So when you go to EMT school, you immediately change your personalized license plate to meet your needs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Make it all your personality.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. So the truck continued to follow Kathy's vehicle for at least five miles. And then finally, when Kathy turned the truck, went straight and followed the other car. And Hill ends up getting close enough to confirm that it was John driving.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's John in the truck.

[James Petregallo]

So he's hiding in the back of parking lots while she's in clubs. He's stalking her. He's stalking her. So end of March, early April, 1992. Yeah. Jessica Murray, who is. We mentioned her in the beginning. She is Kathy's best friend since grade school. She said that at the end of March or beginning of April, she and Kathy went to Frigates nightclub or Frigate.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's gotta be.

[James Petregallo]

It's gotta be around 9pm to meet some friends. Later that evening, John arrived and Jessica Murray saw him arguing with Kathy for about 30 minutes. And they said that Kathy was very surprised to see him, wasn't expecting him. She should expect to see him everywhere. Now. This is scary. Yeah. And that he was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

30 minute argument.

[James Petregallo]

That's a. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What are you doing?

[James Petregallo]

She said he was very angry. So I think he was definitely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's keeping a guy.

[James Petregallo]

Perpetuating this argument for sure. Now she. She's trying to use her. She's trying to get a physical therapy degree. She's an honor student at her school. She wants to help disabled children.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Beautiful.

[James Petregallo]

Beautiful. Which in our show means you are screwed if you're on Small Town Murder and you're a sweet young lady who wants to help disabled children. Just fucking lock your doors, man. It's bad. So. April 15, 1992, Richard Barnes, a firefighter in Kenosha, said that he was John's classmate for paramedic training at Victory Memorial Hospital over a period of seven or eight months in 1991 and 1992. So following a test on April 15, 1992, John and this Barnes guy spent the evening together at a restaurant and at several bars. John told Barnes that he was having difficulty with his relationship with Kathy. That's an understatement. You're stalking her. That's not a relationship. It's a little more than difficulty. He said it was, quote, going sour and that she was driving him crazy. Oh, I don't know if he means the thought of hers driving him crazy or what. He also told this guy that Kathy was having a hard time being in a Relationship with him. And you know what the reason is? The most reasonable reason of all. And also why you shouldn't buy a house with someone when you're 19.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Because she was young and wanted to experience life and date other people and didn't want to be tied down. You know, like a smart person would say that young age.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they moved into a house.

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Her idea was that we were going.

[James Petregallo]

To be roommates and they were in a relationship.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, but she wants to date other people, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because if it's communicated, whatever, man. Do whatever you want.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I mean. But he can't. He can't take that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He can't accept that.

[James Petregallo]

No.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No way.

[James Petregallo]

He owns this woman in his mind. That's the thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He will not listen to Mr. Big.

[James Petregallo]

No, he will not. Yeah. Find someone else to be the next to be with. Come b. You can handle it. So. And again, here, tied down to one person. You shouldn't be tied down to one person at that age. And she might have been saying that to be nice when the real truth is because I'm terrified of you. Right. Yeah. So Kathy gets a protective order against him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

This month in April of 1992. Here. But starts, then starts dating him again. Oh. So she gets a protective order, then hides from her parents that she's dating him again because she's embarrassed to be dating him again. Yeah. So she would tell her parents she was going out with friends or going to a study group or something like that, and she'd go out with him when she was at John's house, which I guess is partially hers, which is about a mile from her parents house. They live very close. Kathleen would park her car in the garage so her parents wouldn't see it while taking walks around the neighborhood. This is some shit you do when you're 16. And now she's kind of painting herself into this corner with her parents, which sucks. So May 2, 1992, John talks to a neighbor of his. This is Gordon Kesgan. And he said that he was John's neighbor, and on May 2, 1992, Kathy and he were outside and that John and this neighbor, or John, told this neighbor that they were getting back together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She and Kathy are getting back together.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And she was over there. Now, although he said, you know, me and her have had some problems in the past, but he said that he had gotten counseling. Oh. And that he felt the relationship was going in the right direction.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I'm healing. I'm a better person. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And according to this neighbor, it's true. Her car would be kept in the garage out of sight of her parents. Okay, so they even this weekend in early May, host a joint barbecue at their house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

With who? Oh, with her and he.

[James Petregallo]

Her and he. With the neighbors and with his friends and stuff. They host a barbecue together. So she's putting out potato salad and so that's something now, mate. Yeah, he's got the apron.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, he's got this old personality apron with the quirky shit on it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it says the cook bites. That's what it says. It's different.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The cook.

[James Petregallo]

I'm the cook, yeah. May 5, 1992. Elizabeth Swarowski, Betty, Mom. Here she is hanging out with her daughter. Kathy's still living at home and she said that her daughter ate a dinner of stuffed green peppers and peas. Okay. Stuffed green peppers and peas. And then about 8:30pm Kathy said she was going to go off to a friend's house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Now, 6:30pm that night before she left in prime pepper eating time here, John calls Kathy and Betty answers the phone. John asked to speak with Kathy. Betty puts her on the phone and doesn't hear their conversation. Then Kathy sat down, ate dinner with her mom, her dad, and Brad, the brother. After dinner, Kathy went up to her room, left the house at 8:30. She was wearing her DePaul jacket, that's College DePaul. A gray sweatshirt and gray socks pulled over her jeans. Because it's 1992.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So she's got those big.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is the time.

[James Petregallo]

Those big, like, leg warmer looking socks that are like all, you know, bunched up and shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Were they the tapered jeans or did she taper it herself?

[James Petregallo]

She might have been tight rolling them, we don't know. Possible tight roll in 92. We're not positive. Who knows? Who knows? So later that night, 9:15pm this is another woman here. Patricia said that she called home to speak with her daughter here and she informed John that her daughter was ill and sleeping and that that was the extent of their conversation. Cynthia, this is a person that he studies with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So he had called her a little later. A friend of John's said she met him. She had met him while working at a hospital together. But after 9pm on May 5, 92, John had called her and the conversation lasted about 20 minutes. She said she didn't notice anything unusual about him, just a normal conversation. They made plans to meet the next morning so that John could help her move items from a storage facility into her new residence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, nice guy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's gonna see, he only wants to help people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's what it is. Well, he's got a truck. And when you buy a truck, that's your fucking job.

[James Petregallo]

That's your lot in life. Now you're screwed. So he met her about 8am the next morning on the 6th, and then helped her until about 11am Three hours of moving help is you better buy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Labor at 8am Are you out of your fucking mind?

[James Petregallo]

That better be followed by some pizza.

[Jimmy Whisman]

After 11am Pizza, blowjobs, they're welcome.

[James Petregallo]

You never know. Whatever you want.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Anything other than thanks. See you around.

[James Petregallo]

You pay my electric bill, never mind a blowjob. Three hours worth of work. Kidding me?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I'll direct you to T mobile.

[James Petregallo]

To pay my bill. Go pay my shit. Then he left for work after 11, May 5th. Now we'll go back the night before May 5th again, 11:20pm that night. So we knew where Kathy was. She left at 8:30. John talked on the phone a bit after 9: O'. Clock, so we know where he was. And then the next morning he's helping out. Now this is 11:20pm on May 5th. Okay. About a little less than three hours after Kathy left the house. Now they, I guess Kathy and John had talked on the phone twice that night. But now around 11:20pm this is a resident of Spring Grove narrowly missed a head on collision in a secluded area with a car driven by a man with dark hair who was accompanied by a woman who was, quote, slumped over.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I almost got hit head on. And you got to see both the driver and passenger.

[James Petregallo]

If you're that close eyesight and if you're that close and it's dark and your headlights hit it. Yeah. You might see, I guess.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. You would illuminate the cab.

[James Petregallo]

Sure. Yeah. In a secluded area like that because it wasn't like they were going 75 miles an hour. Probably country roads, probably doing 35, 40. Yeah, yeah. And a woman who slumped over. But it's 11:20. People could be asleep. You don't know. She got up at 5am for work or something. Who knows?

[Jimmy Whisman]

A passenger is allowed to be slumped as fuck, right? That's their job.

[James Petregallo]

Reclined all the way back. You slept in the trunk while we drive back from Austin for Christ.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I folded down a backseat and put my ass in the trunk.

[James Petregallo]

That was adorable and fucking hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was like, this is snuggle in the fucking backseat.

[James Petregallo]

It was like I had a golden retriever back there. I was like, this is crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Half of my body in the car. Half of it in the truck and.

[James Petregallo]

Just trusting me to drive through the night on no sleep for two days. He won't kill us. It's fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Was that back from LA or back from Austin? I was from Austin. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That was a long drive.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And then I decided to drive from that rest area and got pulled over doing 97.

[James Petregallo]

You got pulled over on the on ramp. You weren't even on the goddamn freeway yet. I was like, I just drove for seven hours. He was the nicest man, the least eventful. Seven hours of us driving that could happen. You get in the car, we're not even on the off ramp yet and we got two cops behind us. What the fuck did you do? What is happening?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was like, I got this. Don't worry. I got out of the car like today. That was 10 years ago today.

[James Petregallo]

That'll get you shot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got out of the car and walked back to him.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, my bad, dude. That was ridiculous. That whole thing was ridiculous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He did take care of this.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he did hit you, bust your lip, put a gun to your head and threatened to blow it off. So that was. He responded appropriately.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I feel like Good morning, jizz wasp. Let's talk.

[James Petregallo]

What's happening? Oh, man. So now this near miss collision here, almost collision occurred in the wooded area off Rabin Drive about a mile northwest of U.S. highway 12 and State Park Road. Now May 6th the next morning. This is before John goes to meet his friend to help her move ship. Okay, so he shows up at 8, this is 6:45am there's people out in a secluded area jogging, doing their normal morning stuff. As they're going, they see a white Geo tracker about 35 to 40ft from Rabin Drive, which is a private driveway in a secluded area. In this car they discover Kathy. Oh no. Yeah, it's really an isolated. It's an isolated field near the Nippersink Canoe Basin near the Spring Grove area here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's Neversink, right?

[James Petregallo]

Never sink. That's right. The car was found in tall grass in an area surrounded by bushes near railroad tracks. The closest homes are about 100 yards away. They find Kathy, unfortunately, very dead. Yeah, she's in the. Now there's conflicting reports of which seat she was in. Oh, there's a newspaper report that says it is a passenger seat. She was in her own passenger seat. And then there's other reports saying that she was in the driver's seat. So I'm not positive which one it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who fucked that up?

[James Petregallo]

Someone fucked that up. Now she's covered in blood. Her pants are unzipped and open, which is bad. She either just had Thanksgiving dinner or something bad happened. And she's in a reclined position in the seat. So we don't know driver's seat or passenger seat, but she's in a reclined position. There was a quote, pooling of blood and large blood spattering in the rear seat on the driver's side, but there was no blood spatters on the ceiling of the car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Which is an interesting little scientific.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that? I guess that's not a lot of cast off. So whatever it is is not being flung up.

[James Petregallo]

But even if someone got hit, flung forward, it goes back some stuff, it goes all directions. So I don't even know how you do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe his fist doesn't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Right. If there was enough blood. Yeah. I mean.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.

[James Petregallo]

It's bladder if it almost bloody already.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that's crazy. Now, the location. A McHenry county patrol officer here said you had to have lived near here to know about this location. You wouldn't just pass by and know to go down this road over here to the field. It's pretty isolated. Now, the other thing is John. John Cumby. He's usually nearby this area.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Not only is he a firefighter, former police officer, but he worked part time for Rabin Construction, which is located right there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it's right there.

[James Petregallo]

He knows about this place very well because this is the drive to his old job. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got a belly full of caffeine at this time.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, shit. Yeah. So they said the vehicle was nearly hidden. The weeds are so tall. Remember English Prairie?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tall grass.

[James Petregallo]

Tall grass. Why do you think I put that detail in there? Come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't forget.

[James Petregallo]

You can't forget it. And it was in the bushes straddling the Chicago and Western train tracks. So near there. They said the site is just inside the McHenry county line, less than a mile from the home of John Cumby and right where he worked, too. And the private road, Rabin Drive, leads to the excavating firm where he used to work. Okay, so he couldn't be more tied to this area or more framed. Perfect framing job here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Frame the shit out of this thing.

[James Petregallo]

Let's drop a bloody glove in his yard. That's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

For him to be framed, that's the level of framing it would have to be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does he have a house guest that can tap? This is very. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Did he have Big Mac with a guy earlier in the evening.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, Very, very rare leather shoes.

[James Petregallo]

Very rare. Expensive.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So now she was about to graduate. She was going to graduate that Thursday. She was set to graduate from Oakton Community College's physical therapy assistant program. Instead she had a funeral three days before her graduation, which is pretty goddamn sad. Now the neighbors here who've lived here for a long time said many of them said they didn't even know about Rabin Drive. There's people saying, I've lived here 20 years and I didn't even know that was there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How about that?

[James Petregallo]

So that's how you have to really know about it. Even though some of them were walkers and bicyclists, they said we still never went over there. One guy said, I can't believe this. I saw her drive by my house and stop at the stop sign at us 12 Tuesday evening. Now she's dead. One said she was such a luckysuch. A sweet girl, very happy go lucky and athletic, but also very sensible. I used to see her playing basketball in her driveway with her two younger brothers. Anything she and her two brothers could do to help you, they would. They all had respect for their elders, which an old person in the neighborhood, that's the best they could say about anybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's their favorite thing to say about you. If you do that, they can't wait to say it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, anyone under the age of 60, that's the biggest compliment they could give. It's like they treat me real well. One person here said, quote, she had put her focus in life on physical therapy and had planned to work for a while before enrolling in a more advanced program to become a full fledged physical therapist. She was caring with people and she would have been good with adults or children, but she wanted to concentrate on disabled children.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable gal.

[James Petregallo]

So let's find out what happened to Kathy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. The doctor here doing the autopsy finds that there are 14 lacerations to her scalp area.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, 14, that's usually some purpose.

[James Petregallo]

Well, it could be that or she could have been getting her head knocked against something. Someone could be hitting her. I mean she could have been slammed against a wall or a floor, anything. Seven lacerations to her face and her teeth were broken and cracked.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

She has been brutalized. Her fucking head. Food was present in her stomach and they estimated that she died around four hours after her last meal, which we know was around 6:30. It's around 10:30, which would make perfect sense for her to be dead in a car, almost getting in a head on collision with someone at 11:20. Perfect timing. Also that's gotta be terrifying if you're. Now I've never driven with a dead human in my car, obviously. But if you're driving with a dead body that you just killed, you gotta be terrified to get in any kind of accident.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

To be seen. To be seen to be pulled over. What if you have a burnt out turn signal?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

You know what I mean? You got to do the whole.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very concerned about that. You have to do the whole.

[James Petregallo]

Everything in operational shape here. Like you got to be on top of your game, motherfuckers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tip top as far as I know.

[James Petregallo]

Tip top as far as I know. So now following the examination, the doctor opined that Kathy died of multiple blows to the head resulting in brain injury.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, great job, man. I think, I really think so. Zero medical knowledge. I think I nailed it.

[James Petregallo]

Unless you cut her open and all of her organs were missing. Probably that you think.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or pureed in there somehow.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Who knows? According to him, the facial injuries suffered required a heavy metal rod like instrument. Oh, that's what he says. He said she had facial damage and teeth missing. And they took polaroids for later, which are bad. They bring in Dr. John Tegitz who was qualified as an expert in the field of forensic pathology. He said that her injuries had a pattern of a very linear or line like nature. Right. So he said in his opinion they were caused by an instrument more unusual than a hammer. Not a bashing like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Straight.

[James Petregallo]

And not a baseball bat or a tire iron even. Okay. They said, he said because those, those instruments have a characteristic look to them that you can identify. So he said it's not that, it's something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Tire iron's got like an octagon shape to the.

[James Petregallo]

It's got a different shape a baseball bat has. It's tapered. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gets bigger.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So he's saying if you have a long line, this is. It's a totally different injury than he's used to seeing. And he can't really pick out the instrument at this moment.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So police immediately, you know, because they find her, they tell her parents, her parents say, oh my God, it's probably John, the guy who bit her face up two months ago. So they go to see John at the hospital where he works. This is within six hours of finding the body. They're talking to him. So they go there on May 6th. Here it's two cops that go to interview him at St. Therese Hospital. When asked, he said that he and Kathy co. Owned a geo tracker, which is true. They were Both on the title.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

They were both on the title. They bought it when they were together and they were.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the best way to buy a Geo. You only got half the money.

[James Petregallo]

I'm only half into this Geo, so when it loses all of its resale value, I only lose half of that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm only down half.

[James Petregallo]

It's pretty good. So he said that the car was found because that's why they talked to him too, is his name's half on the title. Right. So he said, we found this car with a large amount of blood in it. And his response is, quote, where's Kathy? You can check my alibis.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wild.

[James Petregallo]

We just said we found blood in your car, bro. What are you talking about? What do you mean alibis?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I found your car and blood. That's all I said.

[James Petregallo]

You just jumped all the way to alibis? This is scary. So when they informed him that she was in fact dead, he didn't say anything. So then he told the officers he last saw her on May 3, 1992 at her parents house where he talked with her in her driveway three days ago. Three days. According to him, he did not see her on May 4th, 5th or 6th.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And when they asked, well, what's the nature of your relationship?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, quote, just buddies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ah.

[James Petregallo]

How many cars do we own together? Jimmy Lutz, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm such a pal of yours.

[James Petregallo]

We just want you. Whenever we go in on a where I'm gonna buy a car, I'm like, hey, Jimmy, come with me to the lot and we'll co own this car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, we are geo tracking tonight. I'll tell you that right now. I'm getting on Facebook, Marketplace. I'm gonna find this one.

[James Petregallo]

Get a sidecar lifted or lowered?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What do you want?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, lifted by far. Let's be ridiculous. So when asked about the future, he said that he and Kathy had plans to get married even though they're just buddies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just buddies?

[James Petregallo]

He told the sergeant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The f. Variety? Is that what he's trying to say?

[James Petregallo]

He just said no, he just said just buddies. Fuck buddy wasn't even a term in 1992.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

It wasn't even a term. There was not even a thing. It was just buddies. We're just friends. We're buddies, but we're planning on getting married and we buy things together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Buddy cop film.

[James Petregallo]

And we like to enter in loans together. Yeah, that helps a lot. We like to owe the bank an equal amount of money. He said also, he's studying to be a paramedic. They said, well, when's the last time you talked to her? He said, I called her about 6:30 to ask her to help me study for my paramedic exam. She said yes. But then around 6:50pm she called back to say that she was going to stay home and study herself. So she couldn't do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So now according to him, on May 5, he came home from work around 8:30pm he called Cynthia Beck to help him study. Remember, she didn't come to the phone. She said she didn't feel good. So he did some chores around the house, watched TV, fell asleep around 11 o'. Clock. He was paged by the Fox Lake Fire Department to respond to some type of call that evening and he did not respond because other on duty firefighters had handled it already. They had enough people by the time he called back. So now they observe while they're talking to him, a very deep gash on his right middle knuckle that has scabbed over some.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So it didn't just happen five minutes ago. Also noticed his two adjacent knuckles had scabs. And also that he had a scratch or an abrasion on the left side of his neck. You know, defensive wound type. Shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

According to him, his hand was injured when a log fell out of his fireplace the night before. He also said that the abrasion on his neck was caused by a stethoscope that rubbed back and forth.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it fought back.

[James Petregallo]

Every doctor you go to looks like they've just been choked out every time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Go, Doc, you okay? They go, this damn stethoscope looks like a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know, that doesn't go there, Doc.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Jesus. Yeah, according to him also, you know, he's. They said they observed the stethoscope that he was wearing for four, and they said it was 4 to 5 inches below the injury on his neck. Oh, so it's hanging down here. He's got an injury below his ear. Yeah. Not where you wear a stethoscope. So they end up showing him pictures. They show him pictures of Kathy that were taken after the biting incident.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Trying to spook him a little bit. Yeah. He said he doesn't remember doing that. And he said, I don't think I'm responsible for that. I didn't do that. Okay. I'm cool. Yeah, that's what he said. Like, okay, well, everybody said, you did it. That's interesting. He said that. He. This is the best line ever. He said, he, quote, won't hurt Kathy anymore. No, you know, anymore. Anymore. I've already bashed her skull in, so I think I'm good is what he's saying. Allegedly. So he said he would not. That he would not kill her and that now he's in control. Before, even if he did bite her face off earlier, he was having problems, but he's good now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Basically, I got my temper, I got my rage. I got all of it under control now.

[James Petregallo]

I got him all in control. He went to some counseling. He's feeling much better, Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Therapized.

[James Petregallo]

According to him, Kathy had confided to him that she had recently had sex with two other men. Oh. I don't know why he would tell the cops that, but. Oh, that's to get. That's to say you should look at them, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So is he saying at different occasions, what's he saying?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not at the same time, I don't think. And say. Yeah, she's talked about getting really. Just teamed by these two guys. I don't think that's what happened. So maybe, who knows? But I don't think that's a really.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice night she had.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Either way, that's his claim.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

He offered to show the officers his guns if she had been killed. She said, I'll show you my guns. And they said that at that time, they had never told her that she had been killed or how she died. They just said she was dead and say she was murdered.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

You shouldn't be talking about guns and alibis. It could have been a car accident. They came and said, there's blood in a Geo that you own and she's dead. Car accident. Many different things. Heart attack, anything? Not that. So May 7, 1992. The next day, they put luminol in areas of John's house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They. Luminol. That shit. When they applied luminol to his living room carpet, the test showed a positive indication for the presence of blood.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How much?

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's what we'll find out. They then tested the same areas of carpet with. Oh, boy. Phenolphthalin, which also showed a positive indication of blood.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that shit? Does that glow or. It doesn't glow.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Turns pink or some shit.

[James Petregallo]

I guess it's a backup or something or just a. You know, for when we're accessible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

When the black light dies.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We gotta use.

[James Petregallo]

So in the bathroom, they apply luminol in the bathtub and a. To the bathtub? To a towel hanging over the shower curtain in the bathtub. To the sink, a hand towel, a wastebasket. All of which showed a positive indication for presence of blood. There's fucking blood everywhere.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now in a bathroom, there are. There is blood everywhere in a bathroom.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Especially if you're a guy who shaves. There's blood. You bled? Kind of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Want a luminol? Mine. I'd like to see it light up.

[James Petregallo]

Like a fucking Christmas tree.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dexter lives here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm sure it's ugly, but this seems.

[James Petregallo]

Like too much blood. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Everything in the bathroom has a shitload of blood on it. That's wild.

[James Petregallo]

It's a lot. So the other test they do show also shows an indication, positive indication for the presence of blood in all these areas. So they said that they thought, you know, there was all. There's a lot of blood. Both tests were reapplied to the surfaces in the living room and bathroom, and they were photographed and admitted into evidence, too. May 8, 1992, they questioned John again. Yeah, they received secondhand information that he was saying that stalkers had killed Kathy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he's.

[James Petregallo]

He can take the s off of that. Yeah, stalker.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he's already found the cult. He's done a lot of investigation.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he did his own investigation, you know, kind of a cop. Over here. Pull this off. He told them that he was referring to the two men whom she just had sex with. Oh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They teamed up.

[James Petregallo]

Either way, they're either together or it's one of them or whatever it is they're both stalking. But only one of them killed her. Probably. But that's what she. You're with her once and she'll. You'll stalk her is what he's saying. She's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's a good one.

[James Petregallo]

So the sergeant told him that, listen, we're watching your house, and they observed you. We observed you and another individual remove two duffel bags from your home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's that?

[James Petregallo]

It was in those duffel bags. He said those duffel bags contain clothes because he was leaving the house for a few days.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

When asked, he stated that he and Kathy had sex on April 30, 1992, in front of the fireplace. That's the last time they've been together. He described it very. We were in front of the fireplace, and it was very romantic, and we fell asleep there. He really.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You've got a bed and you did it on the floor.

[James Petregallo]

Huh? Did it on the floor? Yeah. Did it like, 70s style on, like, an animal skin rug. You know what I mean? Gross. So Loretta Dixon, the woman who he went and helped move that morning that Kathy was found, she said she didn't see any marks or scratches on his hands, knuckles or neck. She saw nothing. Nothing. She said she also had dated him twice. Once before Kathy's death and once after Kathy's death. Okay, I'm a murder suspect. Want to go out? Sure. Sounds good. Where do you want to go? Hard Rock sounds great. So the cops are asking for tips here. They're basically standing on a roadside talking to every passing car, showing them pictures, saying, did you see this woman at all this night? We're desperate. Yeah, they're putting it out in the newspaper. If anybody saw her or her car after 8:30pm Please call us. So, yeah, May 9th is when they set up a roadblock. And by the way, I have to give credit to a lot of good reporting here from the Northwest Herald newspaper at the time. Yeah, I doubt they're still in existence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Anymore, but the Internet maybe killed them.

[James Petregallo]

That's one of those small papers. Probably died. But they did a great job covering this case. They really did. So they do this on the long shot. They might trigger someone's memory of her last hours. They set up a roadblock. They show a Polaroid of her and everything else they said. One of the cops said, I'd like a witness. We're hoping someone can tell us who she was with the night she died and what they did.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'd love a witness.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'd love a witness. So they stop people, they just say, did you see this woman after 8:30pm June 18, 1992.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a while, huh?

[James Petregallo]

A month and a half after they find her, there's a search warrant executed here for his person. Yeah, this isn't just his house. This is. John is taken to a hospital where medical staff obtain samples of blood, saliva and hair. In 1992, this is the beginning of begin.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's a start. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

DNA and physical evidence really come in very handy here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So the hair bit is a. Is a bit skeptical, but I get it back then.

[James Petregallo]

If you had a hair with a full root, you could get DNA off of it. Yeah, yeah. Matching hairs that look similar, we've I.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Love found out like overlay them. They're like, it's a match. Okay. Put a dog hair on there and.

[James Petregallo]

They do that all the time. They find that that's not reliable.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

At all. You could put a monkey hair on there, it's the same thing. No one would know the goddamn difference. So on the 40 minute ride to the hospital. He was calm at times, but also numerous times shouted profanities at the officers on the way to the hospital. Panicking, getting real mad. At one point he said, this is great. Quote, I did it. So what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whoa, what?

[James Petregallo]

Pardon? We didn't even pluck hairs out of your head yet. You did it. Wow, thanks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So what? What?

[James Petregallo]

You can't. So we turn around, go to the station. Now what do we do?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why do you say, so what? So what?

[James Petregallo]

So what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

So what?

[James Petregallo]

You say that to two uniformed police officers. So I did a murder. So what? Who cares? Oh, we do. Honestly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, there's gonna be a lot of people that care about that.

[James Petregallo]

A few. I would think that's gonna come back to haunt him. So what? So one of the cops asked if he wanted to talk about it, but he just smiled and sat back and crossed his arms.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Smiled. When he was advised that the hair and blood samples had been retrieved from his home, he said that the samples would not do them any good and that the officers had, quote, shit on him. You guys are shitting on me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is he talking about?

[James Petregallo]

Bullshit. Okay. Actually, probably more like, you guys are shitting on me, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, taking the piss.

[James Petregallo]

Let me tell you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Midwest. Taking the piss.

[James Petregallo]

You guys are shitting all over me right now, and I don't appreciate it. Okay, so something like that. So they get items from John's home as well. They get the bath towels, carpet samples, wastebasket, bath mat, fireplace poker. Oh, oh, hey, hey, look at that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's a long.

[James Petregallo]

That's a long, irregular object. Yep.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And in 1992, in every movie, that's like the most common thing for a homeowner to defend their house with.

[James Petregallo]

You picked it up and went.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They look around and go, that'll do, everybody.

[James Petregallo]

I like when they grab the shovel. Come on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Or the broom.

[James Petregallo]

The broom. The push. Yeah. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thrivemarket.com.

[James Petregallo]

That'S the one, Jimmy. Thrive market.com. you will be thriving with Thrive Market. Healthy is hard. We get that. The Thrive Market will help you make it easy. You can just. With the small swaps, little things that you can swap out can help so much. Trusted ingredients and personalized shopping that fits your lifestyle. Thrive Market is the easiest way to make better choices without feeling overwhelmed. All delivered straight to your door. And they really do. They have so much stuff. Just little things you can swap out, like sour, can't eat gluten. So they have these awesome chips that are really good that I didn't even know were gluten free and I'm eating them like crazy. I love their tortilla chips that they have others. The snack stuff, it's so good and not terrible for you. That's what's great. You can actually eat better and do better with Thrive Market. And it's so simple to do. It really is. I mean it's. You don't want it to feel like all these sacrifices. You want to feel like you're living your life. You're. You work all day, you come home, you want to sacrifice more. No, you want to eat something decent. So healthy living, it's not. Doesn't have to be boring, doesn't have to be expensive. Thrive Market will get you where you need to go. If eating better feels overwhelming, that's because you're not shopping in the right place. Yeah. I'm telling you right now, healthy eating does not have to feel like it's a restrictive diet saying no all the time. Thrive Market makes it easy to say yes to thousands of healthier versions of your favorites without giving up on taste or breaking the bank. They make it easy. Scan anything with the barcode scanner that they have and it instantly swaps it out for a better version of that. That's so cool. So you don't have to go searching for it. Personalized shopping is also great that they have here. Instead of the struggle of trying to figure out what foods fit your health goals, Thrive Market will do the hard work for you easily. Shop by 90 plus diet and lifestyle filters to find exactly what you want without second guessing. High protein meals, low sugar meals, GLP1 friendly options or gluten free staples. AI powered cart remembers your habits. Cutting decision fatigue out too. You don't have to think because Thrive Market knows what you like, so they'll bring it with you. And also Thrive Market ensures the food you eat has the healthiest quality, the highest quality, the healthiest quality, and free of 600 plus sketchy ingredients. So every choice is verified by expert experts. And it feels intentional and safe. And it's great. Thrive Market's great. It's an easy way to shop. Really excellent for finding the healthy stuff to switch out. We use it. I think you should use it. Honestly. That's our advice as friends. Go out and get Thrive Market. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com smalltown murder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Now they also take hairs Found on a push broom. Not the fireplace broom, regular broom. So they use the tests on the bath towel. They have a small spot. React positively. They did a confirmatory test. They're going through all of this shit again, basically. And they said that possible reasons that the stain could not be identified, as they said at one point they could not identify it as human blood. Positively. They did a confirmatory test which came out negative.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So they said either the stain wasn't big enough or the stain was degraded. That's how a human sample could come out. Maybe not human sample. After confirming the confirmatory test, the stain was consumed. It could not be tested further either. They already put all the shit on it. So they then performed a presumptive test using the phenyl. Phenylphetadoline.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

That's not right at all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's the alternative. Luminol. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not even close to. All right, I'm going to call it non luminol there from now on. On the second towel, there were several small stains that reacted positively. They then cut some of the stains out of the towel and performed a confirmatory test which came out negative.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, negative for blood.

[James Petregallo]

They don't know. Yeah. If it could have been degraded. So negative for human blood. So they performed tests on three pieces of carpeting, which all produced negative results once they got them in the lab. So as a result, no confirmatory tests were performed on those items. Another piece of carpet tested positive with the presumption when the presumption test was applied, although the confirmatory test came out negative as well. In addition, they're saying that no blood was found on the wastebasket or bath mat. And all the presumptive tests applied to the fireplace poker came out negative as well. Now, this is later on, the people that he gets to examine this, they also viewed hairs from the push broom under a microscope and observed a few hairs with tiny red crusts. That would be blood.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, right. Right.

[James Petregallo]

After they removed the crust from the hairs, she performed a confirmatory test identifying them as human blood. So now we got something. So they stipulated, also later on they'll agree that no seminal material was found in any of her cavities. Right. Okay, so there's no recent sex. The fireplace poker, when looked over, was very consistent with the type of weapon that could have been used to cause her injuries. It fits. They said they can't say definitively that it's the murder weapon, but they said it could be any number of incidents or instruments, but that it's consistent with her injuries. And that she was near death at the time. She was placed in the car as well. So they get a qualified hair fiber expert here. They received some of the hairs and fibers for examination. In comparison, head hair standards and pubic hair standards were taken from Kathy and her clothes hair standards were taken from John. When they examined the hairs and fibers found on John's broom, they observed approximately 100 head hairs and hair fragments that were consistent with Kathy's head hair dissimilar to his.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And that's just a push broom. That's in his house, though.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, that's just to sweep up the tile.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got a gal in your house for 20 minutes, you got 100 head hairs in your broom.

[James Petregallo]

Hopefully not covered. Encrusted in blood, though.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a problem.

[James Petregallo]

That's a problem. I would hope not. Jesus, that'd be terrible. Can you imagine? So those 100 hairs had broken roots, meaning they were removed with some force. Ripped. Yeah. And blood. So in addition, they observed approximately 10 head hairs and hair fragments that were consistent with John's head hair standards and dissimilar to Kathy's. They also recovered fibers from the wastebasket and compared them to other fibers. The examination showed that several gray rayon fibers from the wastebasket were consistent with. With fibers from Kathy's socks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, she got rayon socks.

[James Petregallo]

In addition, they tested that the purple, blue, green acrylic fibers from the wastebasket were consistent with purple, blue, green acrylic fibers found on Kathy's right sock, her shirt, and the sheet she was wrapped in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Now, according to this, they also seize seven weapons, ammunition, and in addition to the towels, fibers, his police badges, brooms, a mop, his address book, all that kind of shit. They collect everything from here and take samples of his hair and blood, obviously. So DNA comes in here, as we'll talk about later on. DNA will improve quickly as this goes on. That's the thing. DNA is making huge advancements throughout this investigation. Every day that goes by. Wow. So later on, it will be found that two bath towels from his bathroom were examined. One of the towels, the extracted DNA matched his DNA profile. The other identified three areas of DNA. One area matched his. The other two were a mixture of DNA from both him and Kathy. Okay. July 14, 1992. Their detectives are trying to match a mystery, the way they put it, a mystery palm print left, near left on her car. Yeah, it doesn't belong to him. It doesn't belong to her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where's that?

[James Petregallo]

So they. I'm not sure, but they said they're trying to compare it, maybe to her friends. It was inside the vehicle is where they found it. So they don't know where it came from. They said that the palm print's the only one they have yet to identify. They said that they didn't think that finding the origin of the palm print would bring new suspects, Nor will it make or break the investigation. Could have been anyone who traveled in the car and left behind one palm print. So could have been one of her girlfriends, one of anybody. They said, we're just trying to tie up loose ends. It sounds like this evidence. And then his attorney, because John's got an attorney now, even though he's not under arrest or anything like that. His attorney said it sounds like this evidence will exculpate my client, so. Great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sounds like it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Pick it up. That same day, John's sister offers a cash reward for clues. Oh, John's sister. To get him out from under the suspicion.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's got money for clues. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She said that she will pay. Offered $500 in reward in hopes that someone will disprove police suspicions that John is the suspect here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

She announced it in ads in McHenry and Lake counties. And the ads call for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the killer. That's interesting. She said, we just wanted to help not only John, but to help find the correct person that did this awful thing, the corrupt person. Not just to keep my brother from getting in trouble.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We want to find the real killer.

[James Petregallo]

That's what's important. We'll find the real killers. Yeah. She said, we're hoping money can motivate people. We did it because my family thought a lot of Kathy. We want the right person to pay the punishment. We firmly believe in John's innocence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That's fucking amazing. And John said that. I don't know anything about it. That's not me. She's doing this all on her own.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, independent. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just wants to help me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just a good sister is all.

[James Petregallo]

September 1992, they're talking about the test results they got that were underwhelming. Yeah. And his lawyer said they got their results back and the results obviously show nothing. So they're going to continue with their witch hunt with Cumby rather than looking for other possible suspects.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He said, the real shame of this whole thing is is that we've got one woman dead with no real suspects. We've got another man who's been everything but legally accused of the murder, who has effectively been fired from several jobs because he's under suspicion. He cannot afford to support himself and his two children. They've destroyed his life. In addition to not solving the murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is a tragedy.

[James Petregallo]

That's a tragedy. Yeah, It's a real tragedy. This guy. So the prosecution says the lack of leads is frustrating. Yeah, they said this is the only case I've worked in the last 25 years where we didn't get all kinds of calls, got nothing. They said it's just a case where we think we know what happened, but we have no witnesses, no nothing. We're still hanging. We're going to get him, though. We'll make an arrest. It's just a matter of time. Okay, that time is November 4th, 1992. Here we go. When John is arrested, shit, they go ahead and arrest him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That sister money backfired, huh? At least a little bit.

[James Petregallo]

A little bit? Yeah, That's. It was just brought more attention to him. Yeah, that's silly. So within the last two weeks before he was arrested, he's laid off from his job as an EMT at Lake County Hospital. He did earn his certification as a paramedic, and he put his house up for sale. Been a busy two weeks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That is a tough two.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So while a grand jury was considering the murder case, a detective was keeping track of John's whereabouts. They were getting ready to arrest him. If they came back with the indictment, they were going to get him ready at the spot. They've been watching him since 6am he spotted the detective outside of his home and he tossed a duffel bag into his truck and told the officer, he's going to be in Lake county all day. Okay. So the detective followed him until about 11:45am and then stopped him on Route 83 near 120. Near Route 120. And they arrest him. So literally, they got a call over the radio, take him now. And he goes and gets him. Yeah. So what went down during the arrest is fun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

That's fun. He gets arrested and he said that John threatened him. The cop? He threatened the cop? Yeah, the sheriff's detective, Gene Lowery. He said, John Cumby stated to me I wouldn't get away with this one. And that when he got out, my family and me wouldn't sleep very well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah. You can't say that to cops.

[James Petregallo]

Right? That's a threat. As soon as he got to the station, he filed a complaint against him for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So telling him to have sleepless nights.

[James Petregallo]

And then Comeby filed a complaint against him for allegedly attacking him during the Arrest. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And also ensuring that I'm not going to sleep tonight on this fucking concrete jail, cop.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. On this jail cot with no pillow. So, yeah, there he is. Now, the prosecutor here says we have hard evidence now. All the parts fit together. It's just like a puzzle. We don't have a confession, but we have enough evidence to convict him. Oh, they won't reveal what that incriminating evidence is yet, they said, though, we can't tell you yet. But they said this man was acting alone. He knows all the tricks of the trade, but he forgot one thing. We're smarter than he was. I didn't do that. Yeah, that's fun. Kathy's mom said, I'm very emotional right now. I'm very happy that he's caught, but I'm also very sad because it doesn't bring my daughter back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I mean, it's. That's kind of a. Oh, you know, great. But that doesn't help me any. Yeah. So her friend Kim, a high school classmate, said that I'm relieved that what we've known the whole time is happening, that he's finally arrested. I think everyone knew it would happen. We just had to wait. Yeah. One neighbor said, I certainly hope that this is final. I think that we have all had the suspicion that that's who it was, and we feel very bad for that family living close by. A man who lives nearby said the arrest didn't surprise him. He said Cumby had been friendly to him, but also said that Cumby had a new girlfriend and that the two of them had been sprucing up the home. I don't know who that is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said, it's not surprising to me that he murdered somebody because he's doing decoration and shit.

[James Petregallo]

Well, when I do interior decoration, it's because I murdered someone. And also, that's the only reason a home is sold.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's how you know that a lot of men weren't doing a lot of home improvement in the 90s. Because if you saw your neighbor doing it, you'd be like, he is covering up a murder over there.

[James Petregallo]

He's gonna put that shit for sale. Some bad things happen in that house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He'S painting, for Christ's sake.

[James Petregallo]

That was what Karen Reed said. That was her reason why she thought the people in the house did it. Because they fixed their house up and sold it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because they flipped the house.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they flipped their house. So that must be that. Why? I'm not saying that either way, I don't know. I'm just Saying either way. I'm just saying that was one of the main things they were using. Yeah, he said that he put the house up for sale. He said he was gonna leave town and move somewhere else. Said he couldn't get a job here and that the police department was wrecking his life. There we go. So they said that we sent the physical evidence to the state labs in Rockford and Joliet and also used the FBI laboratory and a private lab in Boston to get the test results. They said we had sophisticated blood tests to distinguish between old blood that might have been on an object from a legitimate cut and fresh blood that would have occurred at the time of the murder. Oh, yeah. They had to go to the FBI for this, but we could do it. And probably in Boston. They're probably talking at some university somewhere or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right. Yeah. Yale or Harvard or some shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, some shit. So. Well, Yale's in Connecticut, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Again, New Haven, geography, whatever. I think so. I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just know Northeast.

[James Petregallo]

I didn't graduate high school. The hell do I know about where Ivy League colleges are?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Smoked a cigarette when I was partying that my education was over they told.

[James Petregallo]

Me, why are you here?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I smoked a cigarette, going, not learning. Another fucking done.

[James Petregallo]

And you haven't. Congratulations.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm fucking dedicated.

[James Petregallo]

You have really stuck. Most people when they leave high school, they're like, you know, I'm going to do this. That they don't stick to it. You know, stuck to it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I just stick to it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

No learning.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck it.

[James Petregallo]

Love it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I slammed the door on it.

[James Petregallo]

He locked in. Boys to men. Number one. Moving on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good night.

[James Petregallo]

Good night. So he pleads innocent to murder charges here. He's jailed on a $5 million bond.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's steep. They're pretty sure.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ, that's a lot. So they don't want it lowered either. They're fighting in court about lowering it. And they said no, not at all. They said. Researching the law. They're researching the law. They believe that the 20 to 60 year term would apply unless the court finds that her death resulted from exceptionally brutal or heinous behavior. If so, it could be 60 to 100 years or a life sentence, but that has to be, like, very special things being found. So he has a bond hearing, and he gets. He gets some people to talk on his behalf, including a fire chief. But Kathy's parents write their own thing about it and say Zion fire Chief Dave McAdams has described Cumby as a compassionate paramedic. This is the side of Cumby that our daughter preferred to see. Regrettably, Kathy was, in our opinion, too late in seeing that along with this Dr. Jekyll came a Mr. Hyde. For this mistake, we believe she paid with her life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeesh.

[James Petregallo]

That's a concise takedown right there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a left and a right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that is a fucking huge combination. Dropping to the floor. January 93. John says there's an obvious suspect that police missed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That John says this.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you guys are such idiots. Do I have to do everything in this fucking town?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said two, but. Okay, who's the obvious one?

[James Petregallo]

Do I have to. Police put out fires, save people's lives, flip houses, drive geo trackers. Do I have to do it all? I have to do it. John says, obvious suspect that you've all missed because you're just dummies and concentrating on me. He says, no, no, no. He says that first of all, you're letting the real killer get away with this because you didn't do your homework. He said. So the prosecutor said, what else is the guy gonna say? You know what I mean? He said, this is the cop quote. It's always bang the copper. No, that's a different game you're playing, sir. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does it always bang him?

[James Petregallo]

I've worked a lot of homicides and it's like they all go to the same school. When you've got a good case, they have nothing else to do but gripe. Okay, so he claims they didn't pursue other suspects. One of the leads came from search dogs who followed ascent from the murder scene straight to a nearby condominium complex. Oh, but the trail ended between units 30 and 35. All right. They said they never looked at who lived in the apartments. They only questioned them about Cumby. He said that. That's his quote about himself. They only questioned about Cumby.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he in the third person says Cumby.

[James Petregallo]

Not even John. He prefers Cumby to call himself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is favorite.

[James Petregallo]

The police quickly dismissed the dog's trail because it passed through an area clearly untouched by a human. They said, though, that the detectives did interview and check the residents at Vacation Village. They said, we checked it all out. Besides, no one could get past the guard house there without being seen. You have to check in through the guard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They secure a check with the security guard at the complex confirmed detectives spent several days searching the area and talking to residents. But the visit also confirmed the possibility that a killer could have eluded the guard. You know, they said the guard shack includes an enclosed bathroom. So even though there's two guards on duty at night, one guard's out on patrol, the other one could have been peeing. We don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. One's walking around, one's pissing and he.

[James Petregallo]

Snuck by and he's. Perfect timing. Yeah. They said Vacation Village would not permit reporters to interview the residents. They wouldn't let him in for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's good.

[James Petregallo]

Cumby will not reveal the name of the man he says is the likely killer. I know who he is, but I can't tell you. You have to figure it out yourself. Yeah, he's just like. He's just setting up like a murder mystery weekend for his friends. Like knives out. He's just doing that shit. He said that he told police of a man who had harassed Kathy in the last weeks of her life. And they said, well, who is he? And he goes, I can't tell you his name, but I can give you a description of him. Oh, and I quote, he was a Mexican guy who danced real fancy. That's the second last week's episode never heard fancy and dancing together. In last week's episode, somebody brought up fancy dancing. And we were like, what's fancy dancing? Because people got thrown out of a club for fancy dancing. And this guy says, a fancy dancing Mexican. Real fancy. Sorry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

He danced real fancy. Yeah. He said his girlfriend had dumped him cold. Kathy felt bad for him. He took it the wrong way. Started calling her up about a week before she died. She called me at eight minutes before 11pm and said he was out looking for her and wouldn't leave her alone. I told police about him, but they never checked on him. And the cops said they checked out several people named by Cumby. They said, the fancy dancing Mexican. Quote, nobody else in the country knows about this guy. He doesn't exist. Doesn't exist?

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's not a Mexican on this planet that fancy dances.

[James Petregallo]

No. No. Fancy dancing Mexicans in rural Illinois in 1992. Doesn't exist. January 1993, John writes a letter to the newspaper.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. By the way, he's gonna also ask for a change of venue because of too much publicity. After he's writing letters to newspapers and.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Doing interviews, giving the publicity. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's causing the publicity then saying, all right, we gotta change venues. These newspapers won't stop writing about me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not fair.

[James Petregallo]

Not fair. So he professes his innocence and questions the motives of his accusers. In a ten page letter delivered to the Northwest Herald. He knew they were doing good Reporting on it too. He goes, these are the people to talk to. He said, nowhere in any of the reports are there any facts or relation to physical evidence. The sheriff has based his entire investigation on the assumption and a hunch with no evidence to back it up. When they found her in her vehicle, tracking dog tracked ascent from the victim's vehicle north and then east to a housing complex which is over a mile from my home. The dogs narrowed down the scent to one specific area and nobody at those residents were questioned, which we know they were. He said guards at the security complex were questioned, but of course none of them had any contact with me on the night of question. And of course they weren't questioned about anyone else because the police zeroed in on me and only me. He reiterated he spoke to her on the phone the night before she died or the night she died at about 6:30pm Between 6:30 and 7, they both planned to stay home and study for their tests, respectively.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Mutual tests.

[James Petregallo]

He said Kathleen eventually lied to five people that evening to conceal her true destination. Oh, if she hadn't lied to all of us, we might know where she had gone and her killer might have been located.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, how victim blaming. That's gross.

[James Petregallo]

She lied to you because she didn't wanna see you. That's what she did. That's the only person she lied to. That's unfair.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She shouldn't have done that.

[James Petregallo]

No, he said that she practically deserved it. She must have been. She's asking for it. Clearly, you lie about where you're going, you should be murdered. Duh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If she hadn't lied to me, I might know exactly where she is.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. He also said that his years in law enforcement could not have helped him avoid arrests like the police are saying. He said, quote, my only felony cases, meaning on the cop side of them, not on the perpetrator side of them. People he arrested. Yeah, we're a burglary and a young man selling marijuana to grade school children. What, 11 year olds are buying weed? Yeah, I didn't even look at weed when I was 8.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And if they aren't, leave that poor bastard alone. He's got it rough.

[James Petregallo]

That kid must be getting some shit at home, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petregallo]

So he said, both arrests made by traffic stops. So my years in traffic enforcement may have taught me how to disobey a stop sign or fail to yield, but not how to cover up a murder scene. Okay. He said yeah, he saw her as often as twice a week after she had moved out of their home and back in with her parents and the neighbors said they saw her coming and going throughout the spring of 92. She said her parents knew of these dates and yelled at her for going, but she disagreed with them. In the last two months of her life, her parents had turned into dictators, which prompted her to, on 5-3-92, call me and request to move back into our home in the second bedroom. He referred to the relationship between he and Kathy at the end as, quote, best buddies. Just real close pals.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Best buddies.

[James Petregallo]

Just best buds, man. You know, he sat around, I never.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Called a girl my best buddy ever.

[James Petregallo]

Best buddy. Even if she's your best friend, you wouldn't say my best buddy. No, no. That's just weird. He said he wrote that he believed the police should have focused on another man whom he said was bothering her as he questioned the timing of the arrest. Just one day after the new state's attorney won an election, too, he said, so that's what it is now. It's. Yeah. He said the saddest and biggest lie told yet was the one told to the Twarowskis by the sheriff when they said they had caught the murderer. They haven't. He's still out there. Her best buddies in jail and stuff. You fucking asshole. God, this guy's a dick.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She'd be furious with all of you.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. I'll say alleged all you want on other shit, but he's a fucking asshole that I know for a fact. That shit is written in stone. He also does jail interviews. Here's one from the Northwest Herald where they say, quote, he blinks rapidly, but tears still nearly spill from the former police officer's eyes. Now he's an accused killer, spending his son's fifth birthday behind bars. And those eyes. John Cumby of John Cumby's Deaden when he says he did not kill Kathy Twarowski, 21, the girl he calls his, quote, best buddy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Best buddy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, no, ma', am, I did not. Okay. Which I don't like that at all. We know about the didn't and did not. We know about not using contractions. People do not. Contractions are lying. Not always.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Contractions are just your normal way of speaking when you don't. When you don't do those.

[James Petregallo]

Sometimes, though, people who have been in, like, if they're cops or if they're. For some reason, they need to, like, extend their speech with bullshit or paramedics or anybody. Like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, they think saying not. And, like, breaking the words up makes. Makes the statement harder and more.

[James Petregallo]

I did not do that and I did do that. Which, I mean, on paper, yeah, maybe it is. Or in reading, but I didn't do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think that if you didn't do it, saying, I didn't do that, it's much more convincing. I did not do that.

[James Petregallo]

But when you add, no, ma', am, I did not, that sounds.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's guilty.

[James Petregallo]

Come on. It should be followed by chop down that cherry tree like we know it happened, motherfucker. What are you talking about? Don't give me that shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he said that he's being held on first degree murder. He said that they say finally, the drill, like, gaze shift. And he says, I have an idea who did it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

He says he told police, but investigators ignored all the leads and other evidence and they're just trying to link me to the slaying. So he's thumbing through the police reports and medical data and he says he's fighting for his life against liars.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, they're lying. And I hate liars. I knew Kathy was lying to me a lot. Did you just think about that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

You just said you hate her.

[James Petregallo]

You hate Kathy. She lied to you a lot, which would have made you mad enough to kill her. You stupid idiot. Why would you say that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That was a full accident, right?

[James Petregallo]

I would think so. He said this wasn't even an investigation. This was a quest. The cops said if they couldn't get me legally, they would get me socially and professionally. Well, they have. I'm out of a job, I'm out of a life. I'll never beat this. The truth has to come out. People have to know I'm innocent. They have to know. He said that he sent letters to newspapers and to the state's attorney and no one will listen to him. No, he said she was just a friend, not a girlfriend. He said, sure we were friends. We also had sex the Thursday before she died.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

We called each other several times each day. And there's enough letters exchanged between them that the police found that fills several grocery bags, they said.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Grocery bags.

[James Petregallo]

Grocery bags full of letters.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a lot of letters.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He said in a recent interview, he said not all of those letters were asking for forgiveness. So let's find out some letters. Here's one that was asking for forgiveness. This is one from John to Kathy. Kathy, I saw pictures of your face today. And if I did that to you, I'm sincerely sorry if I did that to you. Unless someone else came up and bit you about the head and face, that would be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, if you've just been getting nibbled.

[James Petregallo]

On all day, you just got bad luck and tasty skin. I don't know what to tell you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that lunch nibs?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yeah. He included a check for $100.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Clean yourself up. That is so disrespectful.

[James Petregallo]

To, quote, cover your lost days of work, fuel, times and expenses. He did. Like Sonny Corleone. Like, he just peeled off a. There you go. Take that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Clean yourself up, you pig.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He promised to send more, too. And then he wrote, I'm sorry, princess. Be careful out there. I call all my buddies Princess. That's my nickname for Jimmy. Everybody should know that. When I see him, I'm like, hey, princess. And then, you know, he said, sorry, princess. Be careful out there. This letter came five days after police say that he bit her face. Yeah. So that's the face. Five days after the face bite incident. He says, wasn't him. No, me. His whole defense is, I'm shaggy and I didn't do this shit. Yeah, you didn't see it. Don't trust your lying eyes. Wasn't me. Yeah, that's it. He said I wasn't even there. You're talking about a girl here who was too intoxicated to identify her attackers. In two bars. It was you. She identified you and so did all her friends. That's the other thing. Wasn't just her. There's plenty of other people, they said. But someone did identify Cumby, although she does not want to discuss the case before the trial. The witness here, Laura, her friend, testified she witnessed the attack. He said, it's all a lie. They're all lying. Kathy was a liar. The cops are liars. All of her friends are liars. Yeah, that's what it is, man. It's like the old Will Ferrell SNL character. Like, she's a lying bitch and this one's a fucking bitch. And that's what he's saying. They're all just lying on me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Concerted fabrication.

[James Petregallo]

Lying on my boys. That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, to frame me.

[James Petregallo]

To frame me. He said that it's just a lie. And then questioned if Kathy's injuries were all that bad anyway. He's like, they weren't even that bad. How would you know that unless you were expecting them? Yeah, he said, the pictures I saw didn't look really that bad. Okay, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So he said, one of her friends described me. Described it as a love bite. What? What is a love bite? It's not A nibble on a fucking nipple. It's a. It's a goddamn earlobe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wasn't there like a thing about love marks in that? That's like a fucking hickey in it. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

That's not a bite. That's more of a broken blood vessels sucking. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you break skin, there's no love involved. Right. That's not.

[James Petregallo]

I think so. If you spill Gatorade all over yourself too, you can't do it either. Forgot how to drink while we've been talking. But if you get.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you have. Yeah. If you've broken skin, that's not affection, right?

[James Petregallo]

No, that's not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's great.

[James Petregallo]

There's people that are into some bloodletting. Harsh. It's not usually bite my face.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no. Right, right. Because that. That leaves facial scars.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, just slap my ass, not bite my face. This is a totally different thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cat, nine tails, but I can put pants. Whatever.

[James Petregallo]

This is great. Yeah, you can have whatever you want. People ask to be, you know, choked sometimes and stuff like that, but again, it's not bite my face while you do it. So.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's absurd.

[James Petregallo]

He said that the love bite quote actually came from a psychic that she saw, that Kathy saw occasionally. He's reading from the police report. He goes, look, look, this one says it's a love bite. A psychic said that. Which is not a reliable source of anything. And they said that came from a psychic that she saw occasionally and appears to refer to a different incident completely as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

When the discrepancy shown to him and said, no, no, John, your story doesn't match because this and that. That's not what the psychic was talking about. They say Cumby shifts to his offer to give bite impressions and saliva samples to police. He notes many media reports have referred to the bite marks on the victim's body at the time of the death. He said the police reports say there were no bite marks. He said she had facial damage, teeth missing, according to the police reports. They showed me a Polaroid of her. It was pretty nasty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty nasty stuff. So he said he last talked to her at 7 o' clock the night she died. And she probably had met a man who had been harassing her for the last two weeks. Is that's who you go meet up with?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Probably, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said the stalker is the man that the police have ignored. Asked if he loved her. He appears rattled. They say his eyes flick up and down at the table several times. His hands shake. He says, we were not head over Heels in love. And then for a long time he's quiet. Asked again, did you love Kathy? He says, I can't answer that. He says, I have a girlfriend I'm head over heels in love with. She's the greatest thing that ever happened to me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Don't care. Did you kill her? No. Are you accused of killing her? No. We don't care.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She will be so jealous if she hears that I loved anybody ever before.

[James Petregallo]

It's gonna be in the newspaper. It's terrible. Did you ever feel that way about Kathy? That's a good question. After that. And he hesitates and says yes. At one point. I really thought for a while we were gonna make it. But she still had things to conquer. You can't force someone to love you. True. He then talks again about making love in front of the fireplace the Thursday before she died. He said, it's the same place I slept the night of the murder. That's where I fell asleep. Oh, I went to sleep with a book in my lap at 11pm in front of the fire. He said he thought that she was home studying. So she never even gave her a thought. But he said. Kathy lied to me a lot. Both nights she went out with those men. She didn't want me to know. She told me she was going to the North Shore with her girlfriends. Another time when she was staying home to another time she said she was staying home to study. I drove by her house and knew. She lied to me. Why would you. Stalker motherfucker. Yeah, what she did, she lied to me. So what? Shut up. She doesn't want to see you, asshole. That's what it means.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She didn't tell you where she's going. Move on.

[James Petregallo]

Move on. This is. I will say this and I've said it a million times. I'll say it again for our new Netflix viewers. The world does not owe you pussy. No, you gotta work for that shit. You gotta work and you gotta earn that shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The world does not owe you pussy. You can't just go out and go that. I want to put it in her so she should crazy. It's not how it works in the world.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's the most arrogant thing that people do is the. If they lied to you, why would you want to be treated like that? Further.

[James Petregallo]

And women will believe a lot of your shit too. Guys. That's the other thing. They'll give you way more credit than you fucking deserve. You put together a half decent rap, they'll fuck you anyway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're listening.

[James Petregallo]

But you have to at least try to woo them. You can't just be like, here's another woman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Women are desperate for a guy that'll be nice to him.

[James Petregallo]

Try that. That would be nice. Yeah, they like that. They like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sometimes they seem to be real happy when people are nice to them.

[James Petregallo]

Yep, a lot of women like that. Some of the younger women don't like it so much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[James Petregallo]

They look for that later after their first divorce when they have two kids. Like, where's the one who'll just be nice to me?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Stop being so fucking exciting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's just not nice to her.

[James Petregallo]

Stop being so goddamn exciting, guys, please. So he said she lied the night she died and she lied about the night she went to meet those other guys. They say the light goes out in his eyes again. She didn't want any of us to know what she was doing. She lied for her own personal gain. The detectives lied. My ex wife lied to hurt me. Everyone's a liar but him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's his biggest problem with society, is untruths. You were a cop, man.

[James Petregallo]

He said, police say, my first marriage ended because of violence. And he said, lying is what ended my first marriage. Now I'd like to say this, if he wasn't saying all of this crazy shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I'd be 5050 on whether he did it or not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, because they don't have a ton of good proof. I mean, a lot of that physical evidence can kind of be explained away by the fact that she was there a lot. Sure, she could have bled, she could have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, hair, who knows what's going on. That's all fine and dandy. And if he sat there just going, I'm an innocent man, I'm an innocent man. I'd go, maybe he's innocent, but he's sitting in jail calling, she's a liar and this one's a liar. And my ex wife's a liar.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Funny, I didn't beat her. Lying beat her.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, lying bit her face.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What are you talking about?

[James Petregallo]

It was the teeth of a lie that bit her face. He said he can prove he did not beat his ex wife with his gun because the police chief had possession of his guns. Uh huh, that's right. But the police chief from back then said. Because he also said that the police chief went to court to testify for him. Oh, but the thing about newspapers is they check up on shit you say, right? So they went and talked to the police chief and he said, I never testified. For him, he said he gave me his weapons later to hold them, to hold until the court proceedings were over. But that was after he was charged already.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. And that's because that's a law. You're not allowed to have a gun if you're. If you're. If you've physically abused somebody.

[James Petregallo]

Which came after.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. Your spouse. Right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And so after that, he was like, oh, well, I'm gonna be. Was it Brady laws? I don't know what the law is.

[James Petregallo]

He may be around there, something like that. The waiting period was a Brady law. Might be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think it has to do something with.

[James Petregallo]

It might all be lumped in to some big gun bill.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But it's stalker shit and stalker shit and DV shit. If you're accused of that shit, you.

[James Petregallo]

Can'T have guns, then you can't have it. That's probably a good law. Not probably. That's a good fucking law. It's a great fucking law. It's a great law.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's one of the better ones.

[James Petregallo]

So the night of the murder here, he said a close friend and fellow paramedic had scheduled a study date. He says he could prove he was home that evening in part because of his call to that Cynthia woman that we talked about. But this Cynthia woman's mother who took the call, said the study date was, quote, for some time, not necessarily that night, and said to call the friendship between them close would be really stretching it. Yeah, this is just some guy he was calling, and they're looking at that as an attempt to establish an alibi, essentially. And it was she. That Cynthia was ill that night. And so he said he spent the. Spent the day doing, you know, doing chores and shit. So his final thoughts are, quote, there's no way in hell I could do this to my friend.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

All my life I've been a public servant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

You can hear. Start the. Start the violin music or the Sarah McLaughlin with the injured puppies in the background. Something. All my life. Yeah, I've been a public servant away for someone. Yeah, there it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's finishing it for you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I think it is. I was finishing. That's probably 92 also. It's right around there. It's in the ballpark, man. He said, I serve the people. Oh, I love watching a person in a jail uniform say, I serve the people. That's hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In his orange whatever it is, I'm not violent.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not a crazy person. No, clearly not. He said, my problem is the sheriff has painted a dark picture of me. It's all these liars and all these.

[Jimmy Whisman]

People just painting me and putting on me.

[James Petregallo]

He said he's ready to go. And then as he gets ready to go back to his cell, the composure cracks. And he said, my son will be five next week and I'm in here. Tears fill his eyes and he said, and I shouldn't be okay, get that fancy dancing Mexican motherfucker. Get him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got a feeling he's gonna be six and you're still gonna be in there.

[James Petregallo]

Still, the county sheriff disagrees. They say, quote, we did our homework on this case. We didn't pull his name out of the telephone book.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

If I wanted to just get John Cumby, I would have had him in jail on the first day. It took us six months to put the whole case together.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Sufficient evidence will be presented at trial to convict.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Investigations take time.

[James Petregallo]

Cumby's attorney said, I'm absolutely convinced the guy's not guilty. I've never seen a murder case with so little evidence. Have you seen one where a guy acts so guilty? Yeah. So obviously, clearly very few people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How many murder cases have you seen?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Tons, apparently. Chicago Tribune here talks about him wanting a change of venue. And the judge said, there's no clear evidence that you won't get a fair trial because of publicity, so you're staying. They said that they keep arguing that Lake county would be more appropriate place for the trial. And because they're saying, they're alleging that the beating occurred there, but the body was found in McHenry county, so they're gonna do all of that. They also said a jury in Lake county, which is like a quarter mile that way, will be more impartial. They haven't heard of the county line. Stops all news. Big brick wall.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is a nice filter buffer.

[James Petregallo]

TV fucking rays don't go over that. Signals don't go. Newspapers can't get through.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's vertical like a silo. It stops shit.

[James Petregallo]

It's like East Berlin. You gotta airdrop info to these people. They just don't know what's happening in the outside world, they said because they haven't been subjected to all the negative publicity. Those people from a quarter mile that way, those people right there read the same newspapers and watch the same TV shows. He says there's just too much press. This is after he did extensive interviews and mailed letters to the goddamn people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put the press out.

[James Petregallo]

He said the potential jurors may not admit they read the articles, which could sway them to believe Cumby's Guilty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

He said people. And then his defense attorney said, people want to be on murder juries. They're gonna say anything to get on a murder jury.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Are they?

[James Petregallo]

Okay. This is the first person in the history of the world that says people are scamming to get jury duty, Man. They want it. They're really looking for jury duty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Most people are trying to get out of it, to be honest. Yes.

[James Petregallo]

People go in there and say they hate minorities or whatever the fuck they can do to get out of this shit. People say crazy shit to get out of these things.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's literally zero cases of people going up to the courthouse going, I haven't gotten a summons in, shit, six, eight years.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, guys, can I get in there? Is there a murder case going on? Volunteer me, me, me, me. I'll do it. I'll do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's been so long, you guys.

[James Petregallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Every time they eliminate me, it's bullshit. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I've gotten one jury summons in my entire life and took it and threw it right in the garden. I was 22. I'd go now, but at the time I was 22, and I was like doing that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Lied my ass off and said I knew the cops so that I could get the fuck out of there.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. That's what people do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That guy looks like my age. We're friends.

[James Petregallo]

You either show up and lie or you go. Don't need that. Because I looked at it and I go talk to talk about it. It's not certified. There's no way they know I got it. Got lost in the mail. See you later. They'll send another one if they want me that bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I'll show up. I'm gonna work my balls off to get the fuck out of here, man.

[James Petregallo]

That is a crazy statement, though. I'd show up now. Yeah. To say that people will do anything to get on a jury.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No way.

[James Petregallo]

I want. Especially a murder case. Sounds like it's gonna take a while, right? I don't want to be in here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shit to do.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I don't fucking do this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My kids got volleyball.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. The prosecutor says also about the change of venue. He said the defendant's self serving interviews neutralize any arguably negative pretrial publicity and eliminate any reasonable apprehension that the accused cannot receive a fair and impartial trial. He did it to himself. Fuck off. So there's a lot of argument about where it happened and the jurisdiction. And that's on this line. And this is over here. It's real. If you're ever Gonna murder somebody, do it right on a county line because it'll delay shit for a long time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It'll fuck everything up.

[James Petregallo]

They have no idea. There's also an argument here. A detective testified that Kathy apparently was savagely beaten on the head with a fireplace poker and said certain evidence in the car, an apparent reference to Kathy's blood and hair samples as well as chips of her teeth, showed the brutal killing could have been a continuous attack carried over to the tracker. Oh, someone might have thought she was dead and then realized she wasn't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She sustained beating all the way in and out. Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I believe the death occurred during a three hour time frame from when she left her house at 8:30 to later on. They also talk about the large quantities of her hair recovered from a yellow handled broom. They said that the defense, though, says the police have failed to turn up any more witnesses to the killing and that the lead attorney said outside the court the fireplace poker contained no blood, skin or bone fragments when it was analyzed by the laboratory. He said the fragments found in her skull were from a black object. Not the brass color of the poker. You know, it's black though. Soot from a fireplace poker. I have a fireplace inside. You see it? It's got soot all over it from the poker. And especially if he had fires going, which he said he did. They made love in front of him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He fucked in front of one. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. The prosecutor said our theory is that the acts that caused Kathleen's death took place at the defendant's home, but we do not know which county she was at at the exact moment of her death. Okay. But we're gonna call it McHenry. So the defense attorneys say that the fingerprints were not. His fingerprints aren't on the vehicle. He would know enough from being a cop to not need fingerprints. They said that, you know Cumby's law enforcement background, he's cagey enough to know the county line, would severely impede a murder investigation per se. Also, which it does here. Now, pretrial, he wants a bunch of things. Letters written by him to his former wife concerning their marital problems. He wants suppressed evidence that he allegedly beat Kathleen on four occasions from December 1990 to January 92. Police testimony that showed no remorse when informed of his death and that he had several guns in the house and that he refused to give a blood sample until ordered by the court. He wants all that suppressed. Oh, all the bad stuff that makes me look guilty. Please don't say it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All this shit evidence. That's ugly.

[James Petregallo]

Can we suppress that I knew her. Is that possible? And we'll just call it good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can we suppress that? I'm a suspect?

[James Petregallo]

Right. Is that possible? So, yeah, this is a lot. They. They said that they talk about witnesses that had. That knew about her be getting beat and like that. 1993 is the trial. Here we go. Seven men and. Seven men, five women, obviously, on the jury here. And the trials are going to detail everything. We'll get into it. Mom Betty testifies, obviously, and says that she was against the relationship because of several alleged beatings that she took at the hands of John. So any mother would be not cool with that. Not cool. She told the jury that this is a mother's worst fear for how her daughter's life could end. She said her daughter left the house to see friends and they said, did you ever see your daughter again? She said, yes, I did. In the morgue.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's dark.

[James Petregallo]

That's dark, man. That's fucking. That's grim.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, that's what you want to tell a jury. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Rather than grim, Karen, we might go with grim Betty from now on. That's true, but that's grim.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's not kidding.

[James Petregallo]

Feel bad for her. So her brother Rick testifies as well and says, I feel so guilty that I did not try and get John out of her life earlier before he murdered her. And, yeah, he said he trusts no one now. Then they bring up the detective that he told, I did it. So what? Oh, that's not good. Detective Eugene Lowry said. He said, yeah, I did it. So what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, you're arrested.

[James Petregallo]

What are you gonna do?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Through cross examination, defense attorneys questioned if maybe he was speaking with sarcasm, but he said that the cops said. They said, was it sarcastic? And he said, quote, it was nothing but the truth coming out, which is hilarious. He said, I believe John Cumby is the murderer of Kathleen Twarowski. Mr. Cumby's facial expressions were calm, and at no time did he show any remorse. At no time did I observe any tears or crying. He never expressed his sorrow in any way. And I heard him say, yeah, I did it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So what? So what?

[James Petregallo]

So what? John's girlfriend here or on and off, Loretta Dixon, the woman he dated once before and once after the murder, said she called John at 9:15 the night of the murder and talked to him for about 18 minutes. He said that we discussed where we would meet the following morning. He's going to help me move some of my belongings out of storage. He sounded relaxed it was a normal conversation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's frightening.

[James Petregallo]

That's frightening. That's right. Because that is frightening. Now, to me, Betty didn't hear. And I'm just going to venture a theory. Sure. Betty didn't hear the conversation between her daughter and John on the phone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. She said that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So that conversation might have been, hey, tell your friends you're going out and come over to my house. And she might have been. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then told her mother she was going to her friend's house and then went to John's because that's what she had been doing. All right, so that's what the theory is here, is that he talked her into coming over, she came over, and then, by the. Yeah. Well, after this conversation with his friend, sometime after that, or before he killed her in the house, drug her into the tracker, and drove off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Got it.

[James Petregallo]

So there's defense attorneys here. One named Donald Ostermaier. He's an Ostermire. Wiener.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ostermire.

[James Petregallo]

Ostermire.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, you poor bastard.

[James Petregallo]

And it is Oscar Mayer, except with a T. With a T. That's rough. With a D. With a T. Thomas. Yeah. A crime scene expert from Florida. This guy is. He's seen plenty of those down there. You know that. Who challenged the evidence that blood was found in his home. He said Cumby's home was not a crime scene because there's no blood splash spattered on the fireplace walls or ceiling. He emphasized that although blood detection tests at his house were positive, the tests could not be confirmed. So they also got another person to talk about the amount of black material found in her head wounds, saying it was not soot from the fireplace poker as the police believe. It could have been paint, vinyl, or rubber, this guy said. Now, the Boston area schools and the FBI and everybody else said it could have been soot. The defense sought a mistrial four times in the last few days of the trial, accusing prosecutors and the judge of improperly making comments or eliciting testimony that should have been withheld from jurors. Oh. So the judge denied all four of those motions, by the way. In closing, defense lawyers question how jurors could possibly find him guilty when none of his hair or blood was found on her body. Why would he bleed? Yeah, he had a little scratch on his neck. That's not enough to bleed all over me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But no hairs. That's not. Yeah, that's wild.

[James Petregallo]

So they said that preliminary tests showed blood on the living room carpet and in the bathroom. They couldn't be confirmed so he's not guilty. He should be. So the verdict comes in. They deliberate for six hours. Wow. Here six hours on Friday, six hours on Sunday. So 12 hours. And they come out, tense courtroom. And they find him guilty of first degree murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

First degree.

[James Petregallo]

They find him guilty. It is first degree, right? I believe it is. The county prosecutor said, we had such a tough case. It was such a violent murder and she was such a sweet girl. They said he sat stone faced while they announced it. As they escort him from the courtroom. He didn't look back at his family or anything like that. His girlfriend had her head in her hands and she was the only person who did not stand when the judge and jury left the courtroom.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, her knees are sore from doing all that tile alone.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The retiling of the place. He said, we're all positively devastated that the sister said, we can't imagine how they could find beyond a reasonable doubt. I think they've got the wrong person. This is the sister that put up the reward.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

She said, I'm sure they got the wrong person. There's no way John could have done all that cleanup. He's so lazy. He's such a filthy, lazy animal. I can't see him doing it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Your freedom requires it.

[James Petregallo]

You'll do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're gonna do it now.

[James Petregallo]

His attorney before sentencing said, what the judge sentences him to is meaningless because this case will be back on appeal. As soon as the appellate court sees the errors, they will reverse this case. The prosecutor said when the case was indicted, it was an extremely weak case. It was the state's attorney's office and the sheriff's department who put it together after the indictment. As my predecessor said, good lawyers could win it. So the sentencing comes around and they are going to let in evidence that he was a brutal cop. They let in the guy who he put the gun to his head for a burnt down turn signal. So that's fair game. There's victim impact statements. Brother Richard says, I think that John should spend the rest of his life in jail without parole. Because a small room with steel bars caging him is a great place for John to live and die. Unforgiven. Fuck that guy, is what he said. Yeah. John speaks. And what are you gonna do here? If you're John, how are you gonna handle this?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, you're gonna cry, right? And apologize?

[James Petregallo]

It's a 20 minute prepared statement, really faulting the police for arresting the wrong guy. Not only that, not only putting him in jail, but defaming his character.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm gonna sue you all.

[James Petregallo]

He said in his statement. He criticized the judge, the police, the press, the victim's family.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This defamation will not stand.

[James Petregallo]

Will not stand. People with a dead daughter should watch what they fucking say. Watch your tongue. Grieving family. Holy shit. In his. This is his. Please don't sentence me. Till the judge could sentence him to anywhere from 20 years to life without.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Without, without.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, you know that victim's family. Fuck them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck em.

[James Petregallo]

That's what you say in front of a judge. What an idiot. And her friends as well. He spoke of his plans to appeal his case to court. Judge, by the way, you did a shitty job too, at your job. You're poor at it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm gonna make them reverse all your bullshit.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And he says he plans to appeal his case to court and he's not swayed to a court that's not swayed by politics and gossip.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said, this is bad, right?

[James Petregallo]

This is bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is like the worst thing you get to.

[James Petregallo]

He would have been better off saying, I got nothing to say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nothing to say.

[James Petregallo]

Way better off than this. Than insulting everybody in the courtroom except for him and his lawyer. He said, quote, this is me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here I am.

[James Petregallo]

I help everybody. I never hurt anyone. I think of myself as calm and serene.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He tried to bite a girl's face off. What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bumble jizz.

[James Petregallo]

It gets even better. Oh, bumble jizz. I don't even watch violence on television.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

I'm incapable of it. To the point I don't even like cop shows.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't even absorb it in media.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He. That is wow. During his proclamation of innocence, a large group of people representing Cathy were laughing at him. He was crushing. He was having a great set. Great set.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're laughing and he keeps going.

[James Petregallo]

Let's see who has the last laugh here. The judge here, after being told that the victim's family's a bunch of shitty liars. The cops suck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's the worst judge ever.

[James Petregallo]

He's a bought, paid for, politically minded hack.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Huge.

[James Petregallo]

The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole. He talked himself from 20 years to life without parole from 20 years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And we'll consider parole. In that time, could have been 10.

[James Petregallo]

Years to get parole.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now we'll never talk about it.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck you. Forever's that way, dickhead. That's what they narrowed that down to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's dark down that hallway. Keep walking.

[James Petregallo]

Keep on. When you see that light, just keep walking. It'll get there eventually. No, it won't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Face it.

[James Petregallo]

The prosecutor said, quote, he deserved it. What kind of person is it to take a fireplace poker and ram it into her face? That's how he treated somebody who tried to help him. He savagely beat her. He said also that he convicted himself. That's probably said he was the state's best witness during the trial. And he was the state's best witness during sentencing. He told unbelievable stories, lashed out at everyone else and called everybody else liars.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

He lost his credibility on the stand. They said this guy was out in left field. It seems like he's the only guy who tells the truth in his telling.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

That's how he believes everyone but him. He said, I think the sentence was great. I guess the only thing better could have been would have been if we had the death penalty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God, it was great.

[James Petregallo]

It was great if he got the death penalty because the death penalty was only for certain malice of murderous. Multiple murders, I think. Or police officers. Officers or whatever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dismemberment or some shit.

[James Petregallo]

Some shit. Kathy's mom said, quote, what goes around comes around. Not bad. He never even came to us and said he was sorry for what happened to Kathy. So even if he didn't kill her, he could have came. You go over and go, wow, I'm really sorry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't believe this happened.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I know you and I know her. I should say you're sorry. He should never be able to celebrate another birthday or holiday with his family, just like Kathy can't. And she said, I've always wanted to just go up to him and shake him and say that to him. How could you do this to her? John's family, not the same what they say. Kathleen Comeby. God damn it. Kathy Cumby. Kathy Cumby is his sister. Said, I believe John. My mother believes John. Bill believes John. I'm not saying he's an angel, but he's not a murderer. He did not murder Kathleen.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And they said, no matter how long it takes, I'll stick with him until the end. Okay, Well, I mean forever again, that way. Yeah. Yeah, forever's that way, asshole. Enjoy. So he said, none. His lawyer said, if there was ever a good appeal, this is it. The local court made 22 errors during the trial, he said, by allowing hearsay testimony about his prior violence against her. Now what do the jurors say?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What do they say?

[James Petregallo]

They said that one juror said it was obvious that he lied about many things. He lied about having followed his girlfriend to a bar where he bit her face. Despite eyewitness testimony. He Told jurors he never followed or bit her face. He told jurors he went to the bar at her invitation and told reporters he never set foot in the place. So he told three different stories to three different people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can't do that.

[James Petregallo]

No, he said, they said. The jurors said that when jurors said they questioned why blood was not spattered on his ceiling, but they noticed it was a cathedral ceiling, really high. So they said way less likely to catch blood because it would have gone up, but it would have came back down again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he's got super high ceilings.

[James Petregallo]

That's super high ceilings, which makes all the difference.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They said on the night of the murder, he watched tv, did dishes, made laundry, the jurors said. Or did laundry, the jurors said. The numbers didn't add up when they calculated how long it would take to complete these chores. So they went through it. How long does it take you to do laundry? How long does it take you to wash dishes? After closing arguments, they said that, you know, it became pretty clear what was going on. 1995, he appeals. Oh, okay. His attorney says this case should be reversed. It didn't happen in McHenry County.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he wants to do that.

[James Petregallo]

There's not one bit of physical evidence connecting Mr. Cumby to the crime. Now, none of that really matters because the former trial judge failed to provide jurors with an instruction on venue. This is literally a jury instruction about venue. They reverse it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

They reverse the conviction.

[Jimmy Whisman]

New new trial or new new sentence.

[James Petregallo]

They have to. They're. They retrial. They have to try.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Now, 1996, there's a new inmate. He's new in town, as we always say. He was incarcerated in the jail at the same time as John, and he had. He was convicted of forgery and theft.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

In July 1996, he was arrested twice in one week for driving under the influence of alcohol.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

That's a good one. Twice in a week.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That guy's a party.

[James Petregallo]

He's a party. Yeah, he is. He is fun. Let's get him a Nerf car and everybody get the fuck out of the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a guy that does not learn.

[James Petregallo]

No, he does not. He just got out, and he's like, I'm pissed off. I need some drinks. God damn it. He served two weeks in jail, where he met John.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

In the middle of July, 96, he asked John why he was wearing a yellow band on his wrist. And at first, John said for.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Can I get into the Club? Is that how you get drinks?

[James Petregallo]

Is that a, like free commissary or what? What do we got? Is that the drink tickets? Is it an unlimited amount with a wristband or do I need tickets? How's this gonna. So he told John, told him for an assault, and then said he was in jail for attempted murder. Lies. Lies. He's already convicted of murder. According to this guy, John told him that he and a girl were drinking when John became angry and hit her with a fireplace poker.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

That's what he says. He said. John said he got carried away and he didn't mean to kill her, but shit happens.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why did he say that?

[James Petregallo]

He then further told this guy Rogers that he, quote, dropped the body off in McHenry county because you can't get tried in two different counties.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh. Cause he's a cop and he knows these things.

[James Petregallo]

He knows that shit. Yeah. So as we were saying, he knew about the jurisdictional lines, would fuck things up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why did he say both of those things?

[James Petregallo]

That's dumb. Now, Rogers, the guy who's gonna testify against him, is not promised anything in exchange for his testimony. Testimony and a couple of drinks. He said he went straight to the attorney's, State's attorney's office to relay the information when he was released from jail. Okay. 2001 comes around, he's still in there. He wants a change of venue for a new trial. That's what he wants.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They say the alleged murder and death occurred in John Cumby's home. That's what they say. Which is in Lake County. So going. Going by the prosecution's logic, he should be in Lake County.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

So they presented several motions for this, and they said our short term method is to get out of McHenry county and get some prosecutor who doesn't have a political agenda to make a legitimate decision as to whether or not this case should proceed again. Those people half a mile that way, totally different people. No clue. So that's what they're doing here. He also wants his murder charge dropped.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To what? To nothing.

[James Petregallo]

To nothing. Because he said they didn't preserve the GEO tracker. But you have to know. A GEO tracker, after like, what, four years, it just deteriorates into dust, doesn't it? It's like a dandelion spore. You go. And it blows away. And then it grows a bunch of more little tiny GEO trackers all over the yard. Gotta watch out for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they all fall over, too.

[James Petregallo]

They all do it eventually, too. He says that? Yeah, he wants the tracker preserved and we can't test it. But meanwhile, all the tests were done. Photographed. It's essentially preserved. They can't just keep a geo tracker in storage for the rest of their lives. Murder was 10 years ago, for Christ's sake. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's devaluing the property by now.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. It's like any geo tracker does. A new geo tracker would devalue your property.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll get your HOA pissed off.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The prosecutor said in the geo tracker there was blood spatter and pools of blood. The defense is entitled to have its expert examine the interior of the car in order to trace the blood spatter patterns and determine thereby the nature of the wounds and the manner in which they may have been inflicted. John Cumby is unable to prepare for trial without having an expert examine this critical piece of evidence. The defense says so. The prosecutors say there was photographs and evidence collected. You got it. Don't worry about it. The prosecutor said it was not used as evidence by the state or the defense. It was of no value during the trial. Okay, so why does he need it now so bad all of a sudden?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, July 2003. Trial number two. Yeah. Let's do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sequel.

[James Petregallo]

Michelle Gast testifies about New Year's Eve stalking the Hard Rock Cafe. Laura Hill testifies about the biting incident. Now the trial court gives a limiting instruction to the jury explaining that the evidence was being received on the issues of the defendant's identity, intent and motive. Not on. You can't say. Because he. Bitter he killed her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can't add it to his character overall. Basically, and over. Objection. She testified also that she was very afraid of John.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

They also have huge fights over the luminol testing. Jesus Christ. Gary Reaney, who performed the luminol testing here, he became a police officer in 1975 and over a period of 28 years had taken all the requisite courses for updated information and continuing education for that shit. He has a master's degree in forensic science from George Washington University, belonged to several forensic organizations, taught courses in crime scene investigations investigation, blood stain pattern analysis and luminol testing. He and a colleague developed a technique to photograph luminol. And their article was published in scientific journals in 1988. This guy knows his shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He knows luminol, that's for goddamn sure.

[James Petregallo]

This guy pisses luminol, it comes right out of his dick hole. This guy. He testified over a hundred times. Been qualified as an expert in luminol processing, blood spatter pattern analysis, death investigation investigation, crime scene investigation. And forensic investigation. Yeah. They object vociferously to him being qualified as an expert.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Which it seems like there is. Who would be a better expert than this guy you could possibly bring in?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sounds like the godfather of it.

[James Petregallo]

So they, when they're qualifying him as an expert, they're asking him like Mona Lisa veto questions like, well, what's the timing on his 57 Bel Air, all that shit. They ask him like, you know, tell us about the history. And he said, well, luminol was first synthesized in 1980 and has been used as a forensic tool since the mid to late 1930s to determine whether blood is present. And then he crossed his legs and winked at Vinny LaGuardia, Gambia.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And then the guy goes, I regret asking anything about this boring ass shit.

[James Petregallo]

He goes, she'll do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He seems to know it all right.

[James Petregallo]

Seems to know it. So he explains luminol to these fucking people. The other one, the pheno, non luminol, he said, is generally accepted within the scientific community as a presumptive test for the presence of blood. Now on cross exam, he said that luminol and non luminol are both screening tests that are not conclusive. The feno test is not a confirmatory test. And luminol reacts positively to a number of common items. Oh, yeah, because it's certain elements in the blood that it reacts to fleshes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And urine and blood. It's probably just all bodily fluids, right?

[James Petregallo]

Well, certain things are for blood, but I'm not sure exactly what are for because like jizz, you could just go in with a black light and see it. You don't even need.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, that's a good urine to it.

[James Petregallo]

But maybe you do it. Yeah, I think it's bodily fluids, I would think, probably, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, who's looking for anything but that?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but I guess the difference between spit and blood would be huge. So you need something that would.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I mean, I don't know if you've. If you're missing a giant pool of spit or a giant pool of blood, you're probably dead.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, like a drop. Yeah, there could be drops.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, yeah, that's what they look.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For on walls, on the floor, things bitter blood. Because spit isn't that big of a deal. But that much blood, that's a problem.

[James Petregallo]

That's a problem. I think that luminol or one of those attaches to some element in the blood protein or something. Metallic element, something is there. But don't quote me on that, because I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Remember they said, why are you in high school?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I just watched Forensic Files, and I was like, dang, that's a lot. That's a problem. Somebody's sick.

[James Petregallo]

That's. That's. That's an issue.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So on cross examination, he stated he could not be sure that the fibers from the wastebasket came from Kathy's sock. But they could have. You can't tell exactly with fibers. You can tell they're similar, but they're not exact.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And rayon's.

[James Petregallo]

Rayon. Yeah, exactly. But the purple, blue, green acrylic fibers are very specific.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Then they get the cellmate testimony. He says, yeah, I said he got mad and bashed her with a fireplace poker, but he didn't mean to kill her. And he was, by the way, hadn't been back to jail after he'd been released in 96 and is not like, has no looming charges or anything like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So he figured out how to not drink and drive.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. And the prosecutors are like, thank fuck, because now we don't have to offer you anything for this testimony. Near the end of the state's case, the jury took a bus tour of the home of his home, Cumby's home. Cumby Central and Kathy's home. No, that's the same house. Okay. The jury, the judge, the prosecutors, court reporter, and a defense attorney all traveled on the bus while he, John, traveled in a separate vehicle with one of his lawyers and sheriff's deputies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why didn't he ride with everybody?

[James Petregallo]

Not allowed to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, is that right?

[James Petregallo]

They might overhear him saying something. They could overhear him. Plus, I assume security. You don't have a murder, a convicted murderer around a bus or full of strangers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, he's not convicted right now, is he? We're going through trial.

[James Petregallo]

He's still convicted. I mean, it's overturned, but he was convicted and he's in jail for murder. So, yeah, the defense case, a police Sergeant of the McHenry Sheriff's Department here testified on behalf of John, according to Sgt. Lutz, who interviewed Rogers. That's the cellmate. Regarding the alleged statement, Rogers did not tell him that the defendant and Kathy were drinking on the night of their death. In addition, he wrote in his report that Roger said they're going to get me for hitting her with the fireplace poker. So pretty much the same thing, Right? Just in different words. Fireplace poker expert. Here we go. Really? They got an expert for everything. He's an expert in firearms and tool mark identification. Testified he received Kathy's bone Skull fragments and the fireplace poker for testing. Based on his examination of the fragments, he could not determine a specific type of tool or object that could have produced those tool marks. In his opinion, the fireplace poker could not be identified or eliminated as having made the impressions on the bone skull fragments. A medical doctor and expert in forensic pathology, Nancy Jones, testified that after reviewing reports from everybody and photographs, she concluded the instrument that caused the injuries were not the fireplace poker, but a long, cylindrical object. She says. Okay. She says that the instrument that was used left evidence of itself in the skull.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's a fireplace poker?

[James Petregallo]

Not a long cylinder poker. I guess the end is different.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I guess the rod part, yeah. So there's that. Then there's a babysitter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

His final witness is a babysitter who used to babysit his children. And she said on May 5, 1992, at approximately 11:30pm she was leaving her mother's home in Spring Grove when she saw a car coming at her in the middle of the road. According to her, the driver had a dark hair and a fuller face, and the passenger in the car was not moving, and she didn't know whether the driver was him or not. So they have someone who positively identifies him as a driver with an unconscious passenger that night, and someone who goes, looks like him, but not sure. Okay. Now, closing arguments. These are gonna be big because. Wow. State's attorney stressed the witness testimony that he was frustrated with his relationship and it had gone sour. He said John Cumby's jealousy, his passion, and his rage built up to the murder of Kathleen. For whatever reason, John's rage exploded. His rage turned into fury. That fury turned into homicidal frenzy. Oh, yeah, that's a lot dirty. Now, the defense said there's no physical evidence linking him to the geo tracker. None of his hair's blood or fingerprints are in there. They also caution jurors not to make too much out of the evidence that witnesses say that he bit her in the face in January.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't make too much of that.

[James Petregallo]

Don't make too much of the fact that he stalked and abused her for months before she was killed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Her father face in public.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He then said, you don't have a duty to like John. You don't have a duty to like his relationship with Kathy, but you do have a duty to acquit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a lot of duty.

[James Petregallo]

A lot of duty in this case. I know who's got some duty that they're full of. He said there's a crime scene Here, just as there is a killer. But the state never found it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Prosecution says, remember, the defendant had two days from the time the body was found before the police executed the search warrant. So he could have cleaned up pretty well. And they also said that he missed a spot in his cleanup. The bathroom wastebasket, where forensic experts found fibers that matched shit from all over her body.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ah, the old you missed a spot real nice.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. Gotta be careful when you're doing that shit. Then they instruct the jurors that if evidence does not show where she died, they may satisfy the venue issue by agreeing that her body was found in McHenry County. Okay, so that's what the last judge didn't do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Was that just telling them that? Look, you can all agree that where it was found.

[James Petregallo]

Totally. That's fine. So, yeah, the verdict comes in here, and the defendant here objects to the state's venue instruction, by the way, and all that shit. But here it goes. They go in and they find him. What do you think, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Guilty again, right?

[James Petregallo]

Guilty of first degree murder.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They also found.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm shocked.

[James Petregallo]

They also found the murder. Well, would have to be seriously planned and executed. This isn't an accident. So the jury also found the murder was accompanied by exceptionally brutal and heinous behavior, indicative of wanton cruelty, which gives you. You, sir, may fuck off. Life without.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Life without. Again. All that for this bullshit.

[James Petregallo]

God damn it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stop spending taxpayer money.

[James Petregallo]

Unbelievable. This is what he said before they sentenced him. By the way, I feel sorry for the Twarowski family. I adored Kathy. She was a great person, a friend. I did not do this crime. Any sentence you give me would be unjust.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He said, keep on keeping on, Chief. The defense attorney said he will appeal this verdict.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, God. Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

He believes were several errors made. He said, I think it's fair to say that when you look at the record, there's no evidence that John Cumby murdered Kathy Twarowski. I told John Cumby moments ago that he's in the middle of a 15 round heavyweight fight. Oof. The jury foreman said it was accumulation of everything. There was no one thing that made us feel the way we did. Okay, Betty. Kathy's mom said he's a liar. He'll never admit what he did.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, she's got. She nailed him. She knows what he is.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the brother said same thing. It's the second time. It's the truth again. They described him as a manipulative, pathological liar. And they will expect him to appeal forever. He Said, as long as they.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, go ahead.

[James Petregallo]

As long as he has that chance. Oh, that's right. We're always going to be nervous when the decision is in someone else's hands. Maybe our family will have a little bit of peace for a few holidays, though.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And if he ever gets out, society's in danger.

[James Petregallo]

That's a bad person for sure. Brother Brad has a way. Succinct. Or more succinct way of putting it. Quote, the judge can't send him to hell, so we have to be satisfied with life in prison. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So we'll send him as close as we can get.

[James Petregallo]

That's as close as we got.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

John's mom said, we know John is innocent. The whole thing is bogus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right, take it easy.

[James Petregallo]

She's stuck in 92 when she saw Wayne's number six movie. There's a letter to the editor in 2003 in August in this newspaper, Northwest Herald, and it says, I'm disturbed by the vitriol of your Aug. 7 editorial. Let come be rotten prison. The state withheld exculpatory evidence from John's lawyers in his first trial. A note from the same crime lab demonstrates beyond a doubt that the fireplace poker from John's house could not have been the weapon that killed her. Notes from the internal investigation in 1992 were not disclosed to the lawyers at the first trial. Those notes reveal that a polymer substance was embedded in the wound and skull fracture. He goes on to say, John's fireplace poker had no polymer coating. The fireplace poker could not have been the instrument that killed him. And I don't like the way you're talking shit. Your editorial power should place under a microscope the sheriff's police and prosecutors who abuse their powers and seek to convict the innocent. Jed Stone, lead attorney John Cumby's defense team.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, there you go.

[James Petregallo]

That's why not John Q Public. 2006, he appeals again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty much the same shit. And they say, fuck you. Yeah, confirmed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're hanging on to it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we made the right instruction this time. February 2009, they're going to pay his lawyer bill. He's got a $24,344 lawyer bill here. And they said they're going to pay it, no problem. They said there's a fine of the lawyer. All this crap. 2011, he files a complaint against the warden claiming a claim under the Eighth Amendment for deliberate indifference to medical need. He files tons of shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that cool and unusual? Is that what that one is?

[James Petregallo]

This Is what the prison ward warden.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. Isn't that what the eighth is? I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

I think something like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Prisoners can't live in your house.

[James Petregallo]

Trying to think 8th amendment. I don't remember.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The army can't occupy your house.

[James Petregallo]

It's got to be cruel and unusual. Yeah. You don't have to give up your. Your living room for the army's quarters. So they. Apparently he worked with his attorneys to prepare his defense. Come be injured himself. He cut his lip while working in the inmate kitchen when he was assigned for his job. How you do that, I have no fucking idea.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, there's a lot of ways.

[James Petregallo]

He says he slipped and struck himself in the mouth with a roasting pan that he was carrying. Oh, didn't. Didn't report that injury to anyone at the prison. Someone punched him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somebody hit him. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But the internal affairs office received an anonymous tip that he was involved in a fight, so they opened an investigation. Under prison policy, he was placed on investigative status and moved into a segregation housing unit, which is distinct from being on segregated status, which is a disciplinary measure. Oh, he was never placed in segregated status in connection with this incident. He's basically suing, saying they didn't treat him nice enough in jail. Based on. They made him. Being in this segregated thing made him not be able to participate in his defense the way he wanted to for appeals.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And then hitting himself in the mouth. He didn't get a doctor. All right.

[James Petregallo]

He didn't get shit. Yeah. They don't care. So there is a lot. Also, there's stuff about dietary things that he wrote.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Forcing him to eat eggs. James.

[James Petregallo]

There's a lot. Yeah. He's shitting all over the place. Jimmy. He's just like you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got a problem.

[James Petregallo]

He's got a little issue. 2013, he appeals again. This time, he's got no lawyer. Pro se. This time, baby. Really, it's all him. If you're from another country or don't know legal shit, that means he's representing himself. He contains. The trial court erred in granting defendant's motion to dismiss because there was no proper certification that the grand jury was impaneled and sworn, and thus it lacked jurisdiction. He contends that his conviction and sentence must be vacated.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

He said the grand jury has no right to say shit about me. God damn it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't have jurisdiction over. Wow.

[James Petregallo]

2016, he sues the warden again for his refusal to allow Comeby to return to his work assignment in the inmate kitchen after he Was the subject of an untimely, unsubstantiated allegation of fighting. Still, that same shit from back then, it's denied.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He dicks John 20:23. He wants new DNA testing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He says there's new testing methods. That should set me free. All right, let me add it. But as of right now, he is still in prison. Illinois Department of Corrections as of January 19, 2026 is when I looked it up. He's at the Sheridan Correctional Center. That's very similar to Sheridan. Terrible 6 foot, 198, he is. He's got some scars and shit like that. Last parole date or projected discharge date, Quote, ineligible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Zero. None of them.

[James Petregallo]

Zero. Fucked in the ass. And there, everybody. Wow. Is the story. It's about time here. Yeah, there is, John. About time they finally dismissed everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stop.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, stop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't let him talk anymore.

[James Petregallo]

You just let him do it. It's over. So there's Spring Grove. And there is one wild hell of a goddamn weird case. And I don't know what happened still.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What happened?

[James Petregallo]

If he just shut the fuck up, I'd go, Jesus. They got nothing against this guy. It seems like he might have done it based on the past. And he's not a good guy. I don't like him, but I don't know if you can convict him of murder. But then he got up in front of a judge and said, they're all liars and the family's a liar and this one's a liar.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Everybody conspired.

[James Petregallo]

He convinced me that he did it. He talked me into it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Trying to do.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I did it, Goddammit. Is what he's trying to say. I think so. There you go, everybody. That is Spring Grove. Hope you enjoyed that. Thank you so much. If you like this show, lots of ways to tell everybody to like it. First of all, tell everybody. Get your participants on and give us five stars on whatever app you're listening to this on as well. You can do that. Do that. Listen to our other two shows, Crime and Sports and you'd stupid opinions. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com get your tickets for live shows, everybody. Starting out February 21st in Nashville. Durham on March 6th, Atlanta on March 7th. Phoenix is sold out. But your stupid opinion still has some tickets in Phoenix. Get that. Salt Lake City, sold out. Denver, selling Wells, Buffalo. Sold out, sold out. Royal Oak, Michigan. Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, Boston. Shut up and givememurder.com has the whole calendar, links to everything. Get you your tickets there. Definitely do that. Follow us on social media. We are SmallTownMurder on Instagram, SmallTownPod on Facebook. Get yourself Patreon. Do yourself a favor. I'm telling you. Patreon.com crimeinsports anybody, $5 a month or above, you get everything. We put out everything. That includes immediately upon subscription, huge back catalog of hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before. You get those, then you get new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports. One Small Town Murder. Take them all, they're all yours. This week, what we have for crime and sports, we're gonna do old timey ads and weird kind of newspaper shit from back in the day. Then for Small Town Murder, it's Dean Corll Part 2. There's 27 bodies pulled out of the ground, a dead murderer, a kid in handcuffs, and a John Wayne Gacy connection. Let's get into this shit. Patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. And you get everything we put out. Ad Goddamn free ad. Free ad. Free. So that being said, I think it's time Jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people on the face of the earth who would never, ever, ever smash our faces in with fireplace pokers and then call our families liars. Hit me with them right fucking now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This week's executive producers are. Nathan Nolte. I imagine that's Nick's kid. Sharon Jones. Ash Kalb. Cobb Kalb. Ben Cartledge. Benny Boy Alaina. Alenia. Alenya Montroy. Happy birthday, Alenia. Happy birthday, Alania. What is that? A L I linea nea alignia.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds like Alinea. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Melissa Warburton. Gary Howard checking in in Winter Haven, Florida, Martin Marufo. Thank you, Martin. And Mew Hayes. She signed up for Patreon also. Thank you so much.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess that's your real name, Mew. It's the sound a cat makes, right? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Mew.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Mew. Mew. All right, that's our executives. Thank you guys so much for everything.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you, guys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You guys, other producers this week. Samantha McCormick, Peyton Meadows, Happy Hour, checking in. Chandler, Arizona. Look at you, buddy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dealing with the best weather in the country at the moment. Ryan Bender, Nathan Rose, Janice Hill, Gary Howard. I said that. Cody and Delaney Leversy. Checking in because of the new Congrats.

[James Petregallo]

On your baby, guys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Netflix deal. You guys are fantastic people. Been here from the beginning.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice to drink beers with you. Every time we're in Detroit.

[James Petregallo]

Cody, you're a good kid.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Liam Gatton. Gatone. Corey. Adir Adair. Peggy Auguste. Adam with no last name. Heather Kelly. Celia Gates. Sabix with no last name. Megan Sullivan. Handsomest. Sansomest. Samsonist. Did I say Samsonist?

[James Petregallo]

Ah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why would you put that word in front of it? It's not the same. Kate Patton. David Horning. Hornig. Maya Teka. Alienus. Aliena. Alienaeus. Den Menis. Brandi Bradley. Nomos. Allen Berry. Laura Siam. Siam. Audra Hansen. Megan. Megan McGee. Christie with no last name. Hunter Simpson. Rachel McCarthy. Tyler with no last name. Esme. Esme Kornmeyer. Sandy Wattenbarger. John Anderson. Olivia Carter. Jeanette. Jeanette Corona. That's right. Nick D. Aaron Marsh. Kathleen Campos. Patlan. Nicole Lanier. Becky with no last name. Daniel Miller. Deanna Foster. Anthony Osicki. Brian Cunningham. Brandon Miller. John White. Sherry with no last name. With a ch. Victoria Lazzarella. Brandon Liu. Leo Lou. Robert Anderson. James Cole. Bub.

[James Petregallo]

Bub.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shawn Labor.

[James Petregallo]

All right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a cool one. Amber G. Paper cowboy. Jeff Crossen. Simone Gibson. Brian Meek. Anna Herbert. Morgan McNamara. Josh Cecil. Grace Odinger. Victoria Wood. Kelly B. Amber Cox. Eliza Keegan. Drake Nance. Kristen with no last name. Charlotte Nicole. Becca Conley. Steve Koss Coast. Perhaps Brittany Leopold. Vinnie Bailey. Kelly Graves. Melissa M. Yupe River. Yup.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Paco Hurte. Jennifer with no last name.

[James Petregallo]

We gotta figure this out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I will announce it down next week. Claudia k. Magnus Noden. J.J. smith. Exeter with no last name. Maddie K. My turban is dirty. I know what you tried to say, and you're an asshole. Terry Blaschka. Blaschko.

[James Petregallo]

Tell him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You know what you did. Cynthia with no last name. Carly. Carly Burley. Josh Teague. Dylan Carico. Melissa Aguirre. Paula with no last name. Joshua Rosenthal. Stephanie Culver. Alex Welch. Nick Ibatsin. Moises with no last name. Maybe Moses. I don't know. Erica Vincent. Is it Moises? Usually it is Alu. It is, right? Yeah, it's usually Moises.

[James Petregallo]

All right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Brit Holtz. Rickster Semino. Dominic Wilson. Pat. No, it's Dan Praka. Prokupets. Prokopoots. Prokopets. Prokopets. Denny with no last name. Georgia Mira Mavradou. Bradley Fritz. Justin Greenhaw. All right. Julianne Trishita.

[James Petregallo]

What?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Trishita. It's probably Trishita, right? It's not Trishita.

[James Petregallo]

You hit the shit hard on that one, though. Trishita.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kelly Shelley with No last name. Stephanie Lawson. Kelly Parsons. That's why I said Kelly. Monica at Texas. I don't know if she's just at it or in it. Julie Giles. Giles. Maybe. Jessica Soldberg. Hey, Jess. Thank you. John Russou. Russo. Dale Warren. John. Nope, that's Joe Throckmorton. Sparrow the Harrow hero. Lisa Mazajewski. Josh Barr. Bake. Bake.

[James Petregallo]

Mark.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bake. Marker. Danny Cummings. Susan with no last name. Brent Gamont. Guimont. Sharon Harvey. Denise Arguello. Aguayo. J's. Jessie Hesse. Holsapple. That's Jesse, I'm sure. Heather Dryden. Belew. Eric rouch. Erica Rouch. TLC 22. Angie with no last name. Sandy Saltzman. Mew. Hey. See, told you she did it twice. Kiwi with no last name. Alan Lick. Dina Aspen. Isaac Larson. Marissa Mazowiecky. Mezawiush. Joe Watkins.

[James Petregallo]

Rosemary bailed on that one. Miss? You wish. Joe Watkins.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Roisin Rock. Dougie Fresh. Probably not, but good for you. Jordan Mackowski. Michalski.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Quentin Baker. Karen with no last name. Matt from Woodstock. Christine with no last name. Libby Mason. And every person that's ever patron. This show donated a goddamn dollar on PayPal, bought a fucking ticket to our live shows.

[James Petregallo]

Dairy Queen gift card, sent it to U.S. senate Coupon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You guys are the fucking best. And I can't wait to see all of you in every place we go. Specifically the very first one, Nashville. Get fucking tickets now.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much everybody for all that you do for us. God damn it. We appreciate it. Keep hanging out with us. If you want to follow us on social media, shut upandgivemerder.com is the place to find drop down menus, take you to everywhere you need to go. Thank you, Netflix viewers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you for joining us this week. Week. Thank you to Libsyn for making it possible for us to do this as well. And thank you mainly to all of you who made this possible out there. Because if nobody gave a shit, they wouldn't have wanted to put us on here. So you've done this and we thank you enough. This is it. So thank you so much, everybody. Enjoy. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a Podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to.

[James Petregallo]

Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.