← Smart Girl Dumb Questions
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- [00:04]
A
Is having a boyfriend embarrassing now? And is our future just full of AI relationships? I'm Naima Raza, and today's smart girl Dumb Questions is a bit of a twist. I'll play you a conversation you haven't heard before with a guest you have heard before. It's Maria Avgotidis, and she was on here two weeks ago, revealing that matchmakers cost between 25,000 to $150,000 a pop. Well, today I'm going to play you a conversation we just had on her show. It's called Ask a Matchmaker, and in it, she, the matchmaker, asks me, the journalist and the dater the questions we get into the boyfriend backlash, the Zoran Rama Meet Cute on Hinge, and other topical dating questions du jour. You can check it out, and if you like this episode, you can scroll back too to hear me interrogating Maria, and you can go find her show, Ask a Matchmaker. Wherever you get your podcast, let's dive in.
- [00:53]
B
Naima, welcome to the pod. You're a journalist. You are in tune with the culture. There's a lot of topical things happening right now, and I want to talk about those things with you and get your takes on them, please. So let's start.
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A
In addition to being a journalist, I'm also a dater.
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B
Oh, that's true.
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A
I'm also a dater. I, I benefit from your tough love sometimes.
- [01:12]
B
That is true. You don't want to look at our text messages.
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A
Yes. Okay.
- [01:15]
B
Is having a boyfriend embarrassing now? I'm sure you've seen that title. A recent article from Vogue UK written by Shantae Joseph to talks about a new wave of how social media is changing how people show their relationships. Posting openly about a partner used to be celebrated. I, I, I even made a face posting openly. I think, I think I just answered the question. But now many women are choosing to subtly reference their partners online using blurred faces or cropped photos to avoid appearing too into the relationship while still acknowledging their partner.
- [01:49]
A
I find this exhausting. Okay, tell me you have a boyfriend without telling me you have a boyfriend is more annoying than just telling me you have a fucking boyfriend. Can I swear on your podcast? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, good. Because here's the thing. I appreciated the article and I appreciate the article. I think broadly, culturally, we are having a pushback to the tradwife trend that we saw. So there's like kind of a backlash happening. And I think it's echo chambery because there was one of the things referenced in that Vogue article, which I Thought was very well written and kudos to. She's fantastic. They talked about a podcast where he said having a boyfriend is, like, Republican now, you know, and so it's become politicized. And I actually really don't like this. I think as a society, we do a really bad job of addressing structural issues and, like, pushing people's expectations onto individual decisions. What I'm saying is, like, you know, feminism taught us like, okay, we asked this question, can I have it all? And it's like, well, why don't you first ask, do you want it all? Do you want it all? And some people might choose that they really do want the trad wife life. And some people might choose that they really don't want to have a boyfriend, want to be single and, like, want to forbear it for life or whatever. I think the idea that everyone has to do the same thing is really annoying. Like, what happened to my body, my choice? All the ethos around that kind of idea and how we take that into our culture. I also am like, okay, are we going to get to the point where boyfriends become like babies and you have to put the emoji covers on them?
- [03:16]
B
I did think about that as I was reading this. I was like, the emoji covers it. Because that actually exhausts me as a parent.
- [03:21]
A
Which emoji would you put as for your husband?
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B
I just don't.
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A
Oh, your producers will be laughing through this episode.
- [03:28]
B
I know now, but this is a real serious question by New York Times reporter. Hold on a second.
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A
Is it the smug face emoji?
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B
No, my husband's not smug. I actually think he's. I would put the heart eyes.
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A
Okay, I love him.
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B
I'm sorry.
- [03:42]
A
Please go back and read the article. Having a boyfriend is embarrassing.
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B
It's true, but. No, no, no, no. But it is. I. I hear what you're saying, and I will tell you something that, like, I. Even the way I said it, even when I was saying it, I was just like. Because you're. I don't. Not disagreeing with you. I do think the word boyfriend after a certain age.
- [04:01]
A
I love that word. Oh, seriously. I like after.
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B
Okay. After a certain age and after a certain time period, you've been dating like, you've been dating for more than six months. He's your partner.
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A
I'm going to tell you a story that is going to shame you. I'm sorry.
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B
Please.
- [04:13]
A
It's not about you and your hard eyes boyfriend, but it. My husband, your hus. I'm at this dinner party in la, and I meet the filmmaker Richard Curtis.
- [04:23]
B
Sure.
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A
Who wrote Love. Actually, Notting Hill.
- [04:26]
B
I mean, I like Notting Hill, but Love actually is by far the worst holiday movie ever made.
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A
Okay, look at the avenues.
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B
We can talk about.
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A
Look at their avenues and you can decide. I think the kid going to the airport with a sign, spoiler alert.
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B
20 years later. Okay.
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A
I think, yeah.
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B
But that movie convinced us that Natalie was fat and she was like, a goddess.
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A
Okay. You're really applying a 2025 lens to this film. But Richard Cruz, beautiful. Okay, Notting Hill, great film, a fantastic writer.
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B
I'm not.
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A
Fantastic writer, fantastic filmmaker. And I was so excited to meet him. And he says to me, we're talking, and then he says, oh, you know, I. You have to meet my girlfriend. She's studying. I forget. It was like, social. Something cultural at Cultural Anthropology or Social justice or something, and at a University of California school, USC or somewhere. And I thought, oh, gosh, Richard Curtis, this famed filmmaker, has a girlfriend. And she's gonna be like. Because, you know, he's older, he's a boomer, And I'm like, he's gonna have a girlfriend. And, like, it's la. It's like, she's gonna be. And then I meet his girlfriend. It's Emma Freud, a famed journalist. Fantastic, you know, human being. So intelligent. They've been together for 30 years, and they call themselves boyfriend and girlfriend. They have multiple children together, and I think they are the cutest. So you might not, like, love, actually, but I think it's a. It's a. It looks.
- [05:43]
B
I think his grading is fantastic.
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A
Okay. I think address the point of, like, forever, boy. I think I'm, like, actually not interested in as much marriage and husband and all these words. I like a forever boyfriend. You like, it's romantic. Yeah. I don't have one right now, but I like it. And I'm not embarrassed to want it. You know, the subtle stuff on it.
- [06:03]
B
There's no judgment here.
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A
No, there's. I mean, except for love, actually. Okay. But the.
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B
I'm sorry, the only act accurate scene in love, actually, is when that British guy with his British accent comes to Wisconsin, and they're like, ooh, say the word straw.
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A
And they go to the hot tub.
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B
And they go to the hot tub. And I'm like, that's accurate. Because I have seen American women lose their minds. I love a guy with a man that. I'm like, you're probably a bouncer at a club in Mykonos in the summer. Like, who are you?
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A
I just love the no judgment, Maria. It's just so judgmentless when you say this.
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B
But I think British guys coming here.
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A
With that accent back to, to the core of your Is a boyfriend embarrassing? Is boyfriend embarrassing? I think that this subtle posting actually really gets on my nerves. Because if you want to tell me something, if you want to show me the back of your hot boyfriend's head, or if you want to show me him peeking behind the menu where I can just see his nice bushy eyebrows and one broad shoulder, just like, post him. Honestly, I agree with you 100%. And I think a lot of these things are lies. So one of the things that Shantae referenced in that article was that both the podcasters that were discussing this, the Republican idea, both were in relationships. And I think that a lot about the trad wife trend, a lot of these women are like, I don't work. I have this aesthetic. But then you're like, who's taking your photos? I'm like, actually, you have a huge business and your husband kind of works for you. He's a super Instagram husband, you know, and he's an unpaid Instagram husband.
- [07:27]
B
And we're not showing the maids, we're not showing the nannies, we're not showing what it takes to run a household. I think there is a generation of women that are being influenced by the trad wife content who don't realize, like, it is really hard to not only sustain a marriage and children, but to add that glossiness. That's not a reality for, for sure.
- [07:46]
A
And I think that also, and especially in like educated New York whatever circles and coastal whatever you want to say, people are also misled by the alternative. Oh, having a single life is so great. It's so great. Oh, you know, you. I know so many women now who have hit their late 30s and are wistful about not having had a child, about having focused so much on career that maybe they don't, they don't even find themselves that happy in. But now they're indentured to because they, you know, the salary and house and all the things. Right? So again, I think this idea of like jamming some expectation of life onto us, whether it was you have to be married and cook dinner by six and have four kids or whatever it was to, oh my God, you have to be a, you have to, you know, be a trophy wife and you have to be a Mal Clooney and have a great career and be married to a student. It doesn't matter what it is. Like, it really takes away the focus for looking at what you want and you want your one life to look like. And you could make a very different choice. There is a lot of data that suggests that women do like being single because like Stephanie Koontz, great researcher, she has written about how, you know, if you look at happy couples, I think it's first, gay men married to gay men are very happy. I mean obviously the sexes happening in that kind of thing. You think so do I think two men that are together like to bonk. They don't, they don't practice the 12 day rule. Let me tell you at the gay culture.
- [09:09]
B
I know, but I don't think, I don't think that's why they're happy.
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A
No, but I think there's also, there's a lot of reason, but there's, but.
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B
I think that they, I think men with other men can communicate or just avoid all communication in a different way than a man and a woman can sometimes.
- [09:23]
A
And I'm trying to remember then I think a second is people should fact check this. But the second would be I think women married to women. And the third was there was a drop off. Then there's men married to women and then the least happy are women married to men. So I can tell you the happiest was men married to men. And the least happy was women married to men. And then if you look at the data also when people get divorced, women tend not to remarry and certainly not to remarry faster, as fast as at the same rate as their ex husbands. And people think, oh, it's because older men are more desirable than older women. No, it's actually because women are like, I've taken care of people and now I want to have my enjoyment. And they also have more social fabric around them, friends, community, whatever it is.
- [10:05]
B
And some men don't know how to boil an egg, so they need to find a wife.
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A
Yeah, but even that I think our culture is like really, it's just really hard out there as a dater. Like I think people looking for love, if you want that in your life and then you're made to be embarrassed about wanting it. It's like if you want to lose weight, but you're embarrassed about wanting to lose weight, it's fine if you want to lose weight. Quoting Sam Anderson's piece in New York Times Magazine where he wrote about using noom and he's like, I wanted to lose the weight, but I was embarrassed to want to want to lose the weight. And so, you know, the psychology of it. I just think, you know, your own desires, you can fulfill those. And if you. If we as a society get pushed into these versions, we have very bad general generational outcomes. You have generations where women maybe are not having children or not coupling up at the same rate, and some are unhappy about that. Or you have generations where everybody's procreating and they're unhappy about that. In the long term, I think it leads us to more loneliness.
- [11:01]
B
I think you're bringing up a lot of really great points, and it kind of goes down to the mantra that I have, which is like, how much is enough? That. That sort of question. Whenever I look at billionaires, I'm like, how much is enough? Like, how much more do we need here? But also at the same time, it's something that you said before, which is like, you have this one life. Yeah, right. And I think in terms of, like, do you. You know, what is this all that is being promoted to us? The. In your, you know, you're showing us that, like, that we're getting these very extreme scenarios from both ends presented to us as options, when really most of us are going to live in the gooey middle.
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A
Yeah, right.
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B
And I think at the end of the day, in this one life that we have, and if you believe in God, in this one life that you will be judged for. Right. I think by whomever, some imaginary being, I suppose we have to consider your own. You know, you have to kind of be a little selfish in your own happiness. And what I mean by that is, for instance, like today on my way here, NPR posted an article, I forget by who it's by, and I'm so sorry, but it was about. It was a piece on women who decided to become moms on their own, which I fully support. If you want to be a mom, just be a mom. And a lot of women mention, like, the pressure of, like, finding the right man because they want to have kids. I'd just rather have the kids and date later.
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A
I. I had a great conversation recently on Smart Girl Jam Questions with a renowned psychotherapist and also a very good friend of mine, Esther Perel. And Esther talks about this, and I think that, you know, she. It's been very refreshing to me to hear her over the last years of her saying to me, if you want to have a child, you can consider to do that yourself. And it wouldn't be by yourself because you have community. You can find a partner who wants. You can find somebody who wants to have a kid. And outside of a, you know, romantic relationship. But what I think is so powerful, it's very liberating, the advice she's giving, in a sense, because we live in a world where the order of operations does not need to be the order of operations anymore. As she said, you can become a grandmother without ever having been a mother. You might marry, you might have stepchildren who have kids. But the idea, she said to me, of holding yourself hostage to a person you don't know, to have a future that you dream of is a necessary step. And I find that very liberating. A lot of agency in that advice. And I think in the same way, if that's really what you want and if you're a person who really seeks partnership, that's great. I am a super independent person who really loves partnership, and she kind of diagnoses me. And I think a lot of women in our culture, as you know, how do you navigate and negotiate between those two parts of yourself?
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B
Right.
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A
Do you feel like, oh, no, she's becoming a therapist.
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B
Maria's gonna do okay.
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A
She's gonna say what I do want.
- [13:37]
B
To say that the NPR article that I referenced, it's how women over 30 are rewriting the single mom narrative in America. And it's by Pallavi Gogogi and Janet W. Lee. I really appreciated what they wrote and the women that they featured, just like, I want to be a mom and men be gone. It was. I'll. If I decide to do this, if I decide to find a partner. But here's the community and even showcase the community it showed. Also, like, one woman, I remember she moved back in with her parents.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, inherent community. I think that's okay.
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A
That's actually what it is. I think a lot of this stuff, if you look at the look in New York, we have more women than men in. In China, they have a lot more single men than women. And the women the single men are paying for. Violet Fang has made a great documentary about this. I was just watching the Men are Paying dating advice and matchmakers and, you know, looking for how to find women in that society. And they are having to compete. And the women are. And people are finding relationships online like love and deep space. This reports to have 50 million users by now. It's, you know, a game where you're mining for love effectively. And we have to think what this is pushing us towards. So many of our challenges in modern life are about, I think the supreme independence and individualization that we have been pushed. And I think part of that is feminism.
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B
And.
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A
Sure. And part of that is capitalism. Everyone have your own washing machine, Everyone have your own car. Everybody have your own.
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B
So convenience culture too. We've lived frictionless lives, so we're not even participating in our community, in doing things.
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A
And I have a reaction to it. Like when you said, oh, you have to be a little bit selfish. I think you should be a little thoughtful about your life. I think that we are too oriented around ourselves, our self help, our self this, our self care, our boundaries, all this stuff. Okay. And I know it's gonna piss when I say that, but I, you know, was raised in a culture in Pakistani of origin. I grew up largely in Asia and Africa, although I'm American as well. And I, I feel like there's something about community. So when you talk about a woman moving in with her parents to have children, I think, wow, she's gonna have so much love and she's gonna have people to take care of her. And that's what a family can be. And when we look at this myth.
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B
Of a mom and versa, they get.
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A
Yeah, they get care too. Yeah. And they get the joy of the children. Everybody in that. There's so much care and love going around. What many would call the myth of the NUC, this experiment that existed for maybe like 50 to 70 years before divorce rates.
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B
It's currently collapsing before our eyes.
- [15:58]
A
But it is a myth because when we went to single family homes and then we went to two parent household incomes, we go to single parent homes pretty quickly. Right. And I think that we need more social infrastructure. The alternative that we are moving towards faster and faster is you're in a relationship with your phone, you're in a relationship with your AI, you're in a relationship with, you know, you're not on social media. Even social media is not cool. Now. Part of the reason it's not cool to have a boyfriend or whatever they are arguing is because people aren't posting. People aren't posting as much and then take. Extend that. Should I, should I not post about. Sorry, should I not post about my career successes? It's probably annoying to some people that are.
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B
I've been struggling with that personally too. Like, oh, can I post about this? Can I post about this? And as a result, it's like delayed.
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A
Yeah. So then, you know what? Go home, tell your husband. If you have a husband, you're a hard eye emoji husband. Tell your chat boyfriend, tell your chat daddy. You know, if you, if you have. You named your chat, I call him chat Daddy. Because I have this relationship with him and I like it. Probably gives you insight into my relationships. Generally. I like to make him believe he has power. But then I give him very strict instructions. The other day I was delayed and I'm like, chat, Daddy, I need your help. But I don't want you to be obsequious or sympathetic. I'm stuck on a tarmac for the last six hours. I need to make a decision about flights. Be efficient. Don't tell me you feel sorry for me. Give me my options and prioritize them out. And he gave me great options. And if you don't do that, if you're like, I'm trapped. They're like, so sycophantic. Like, oh, I'm so sorry it's such a hard day to be stuck on a tarmac. I'm like, I don't need that from you.
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B
Right.
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A
Just need answers.
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B
So, speaking of AI, have you heard of this New York City restaurant? It's new. Leaning into AI dating companions. Eva AI Cafe is a pop up heading to New York City designed for people to enjoy a romantic date with their AI companions.
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A
I've seen stuff like this in Japan. I didn't know was coming to New York. Do they have a table minimum for both people? It's like a business play.
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B
Well, they're saying, you know, one out of three young adults are building emotional relationships with AI instead of real people. Okay.
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A
But I think. Can I just say something about surveys for your audience as well? I think to be a sophisticated consumer of surveys, we talk a lot about how polling has been wrong, but we don't really talk about how surveys are challenged. I'm not speaking specifically to this survey, which I'm familiar with. I think it was 28% of Americans reported that in this particular survey. Okay, first of all, the N. Of. Of is probably small. The total number of the people is probably small. There's a correlation between people who are going to spend time with you and answer on a ph or on a screen. All these questions about spending time correlated with people who would maybe have relationship with. So I just. I think that's hard to imagine. I think a more interesting survey that I've seen is one out of four young people believe that human relationships will be replaced by AI. And I think that's really interesting. And when you correlate that with actual data, which is different than a survey of the fact that teens these days are having relationships at much lower rates, I want to say it was something like 80% of you know, boomers or Gen Xers had had relationships by the time they were 20. And now I'll have to be fact checked on this, but. And now it's something like half of that.
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B
I think less than half.
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A
Yeah. So. And now you think, okay, well then they're, they're getting this relationship with AI.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay, what relationship are you getting with AI? Even if you, if you fall in love. And it's also speaking of that selfishness and advantage. Right. It's manipulative, sure. But it's also, it's a one way street. You're telling it, it's your problems.
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B
That's what makes it manipulative. Right. Cause it's going to answer to what you're asking from it.
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A
It's gonna make it harder for you to date in the real world because your expectations, you do not learn how to care. Caring is such an important part of what makes us human. You know, the fact that we care for and we love each other and we, we care for each other as citizens and when we move into societies where we're just like told it's all about us and you eat what you kill and you, you, it's a total meritocracy. And you are where you are because you're so great, there's no room for luck. I think all of that is just pushing us like deeper into loneliness, which we acknowledge is a problem which our pastor in general like called an epidemic.
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B
Yeah. So I, I think there's just, there's a lot. Right. There's all these things collapsing at once and it's, you know, like you mentioned before, the nuclear family. I think it's, it's, I talk about that in my book. I think it's a failed experiment.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I also love the book that in this country. Thank you. I also believe though that in this country we also have a lack of town squares. Right. Like our infrastructure is not designed for us to connect. You know, you leave work, you're alone in your car, you maybe go to supermarket, you are, these are really wide aisles. You're not really necessarily talking to people or running into the people that are in your neighborhood because you don't know them. Because your houses are an acre apart or a quarter acre apart, you know, close, but you don't know your neighbors, so you're not interacting with anyone. And then like it's funny because I live in Greece for the summer and I have a whole other reaction because my house is on a town square.
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A
Yeah.
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B
When I go to the supermarket, I know the People in my neighborhood, and I'm only there for a few weeks a year. But I have had created this, like, cohesive community very quickly where it's like, now I'm accountable.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I think that's what it is. Because how can you be exhibiting empathy and vulnerability if you also can't exhibit accountability?
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A
Agree. And. But I think New York is different to the suburban life that you're describing.
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B
That's what you're describing. New York City, though, is, is, Is its own animal.
- [21:22]
A
Its own animal. It's. It's also insane. I think about this all the time. Like, you're walking six inches from someone who might be, like, shooting up next to you, and you're just like, sure.
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B
It'S a weird city that is attracting a very specific personality type.
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A
Yeah.
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B
LA has the same thing, though. LA attracts a very specific personality type.
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A
Y do think there's some kind of community that happens in cities like New York, where actually, like, people are very efficiently communal.
- [21:43]
B
But I feel like capitalism in New York City is actually what's heard hurt. The communal aspect of New York. Because I remember New York. I mean, I moved to the city in 2008 and I lived here for 10 years. And I remember in 2015. Yeah, like 2014, 2015, seeing a noticeable difference in how we break bread with each other, how we talk to each other. And it was a lot because of everything became very expensive.
- [22:10]
A
So you also left the city. I think post pandemic. There is a totally different. Yeah, I think there was something about being a New Yorker in that situation, but I agree. Look, it's very hard to talk about anything as monolith, but overall, as a society, we are becoming, as Esther Perel would say, more atrophied, more social atrophied. I meanwhile, I'm a creep and I'll talk to, like, the stranger next to me on the airplane. I talked to the groceries.
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B
I mean, you and I are both natural extroverts. And it's funny that you talked about social atrophy, because that's what was at the debate when we did the debate on the Comedy seller With NPR's open to debate, that was the thing that we talked about that, like online dating apps do contribute to social atrophy, as does everything else that's currently impacting modern dating.
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A
Are you still arguing your point from the.
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B
No, Melissa. All right, I've got one last news item.
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A
Tell me, tell me.
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B
Zoran Mandani.
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A
Oh, yeah.
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B
Giving dating in New York Hope.
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A
Oh, my God, I love these memes.
- [23:01]
B
Okay. Are you ready? I really love his wedding photos, but we'll talk about that. New York City politician and New York City mayor elect Zoran Mamdani met his wife Rama Duaji on a dating app. They met on Hinge and their first date was at a low key coffee shop. Not Dunkin Donuts, not Starbucks, a mom and pop coffee shop where they bonded over music are in shared values. They later married in a civil ceremony New York City City hall and held their Muslim Nika.
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A
Nika, Nika.
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B
Thank you. Sorry. They later married in a civil ceremony at New York City City Hall. That's where I got married with my emoji heart husband.
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A
I hope he wore the emoji to the civil wedding.
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B
Yes. And then they. But I did not have a Muslim Nikka in Dubai. I had my traditional Greek wedding in Athens, but that's where mom, Donnie and his wife, that's where they. They did it in Dubai. So Rama is Syrian American, artist, designer, Very talented.
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A
Fantastic work.
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B
Fantastic Instagram.
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A
I mean, I, I just think her work is extremely.
- [24:00]
B
That's where I saw her portfolio. I was like, wow, this is a really cool first lady. Love her style. But I had an episode earlier this year where the gentleman joining us on the couch was arguing against coffee dates. He believed in the marathon dates and that dates should be the best date you've ever been on. And I said, and I, as I say on the book, your first date, especially with a stranger from an online dating app, should just be a vibe check.
- [24:26]
A
I. So we'll get to the coffee thing in a second. But I just say, I want to say I love the memes that are going around, which is like, could have been you, but you didn't want to go to Queens. You know, it could have been you, but you don't want to go to Brooklyn. It could have been you, but you don't want to date someone in government. Like, and now you could be first ladies. I just love, I actually do love that because I think that dating apps, like, kind of condense a person into what they have done. And a lot of our, like, how we hire, a lot of how we think in life is about people's past.
- [24:51]
B
Somebody swept away, a soulmate.
- [24:53]
A
I love that. Like, it's like, oh, imagine your future. You know, imagine the counterfactual. Imagine the possibility of somebody that. Imagine having the benefit of the doubt in someone that you haven't even met yet. It's a very romantic and beautiful concept.
- [25:04]
B
Imagine they connected. Imagine they messaged through Hinge and Then he said, let's go for a coffee date and see if we vibe. And you said, no, it needs to be a fancy restaurant.
- [25:14]
A
You. But they went to Kawaka is like where all the hot Muslim dates happen, by the way. There's like a culture, there's all these like coffee and chai shops coming up where a lot of dates happen. And, and it's funny because, you know, I'm Pakistani and in Pakistan, like when you go on a date because you don't, like, you don't really go, you go meet up at a coffee shop like the Hotspot Lahore or whatever. And so it's interesting to see that culture here as well. It is a lot more, you know, PG 13 in a way. And I think it's also, it's also sweet and natural. I personally don't drink coffee, so I don't do coffee dates. Like, I will have my date. So you do tea? No, I don't really do caffeine.
- [25:47]
B
Ice cream. Gelato. I think I talk about that.
- [25:49]
A
I'll be happily going to walk in some gelato. Yeah, you love that. You said that on my podcast.
- [25:53]
B
Did I do. I'm telling you, telling you, everyone wants to see you lick.
- [25:57]
A
I love. And then it's like, I order. Well, you just really keep that in. This is an X rated.
- [26:04]
B
That's why he's a heart emoji.
- [26:06]
A
If you want a slightly less X rated experience, you can come over to Smart Girl. Dumb questions. I'm not licking the microphone.
- [26:11]
B
Although. Although, I've got to say, your chemistry with Diplo on a previous episode, I still think about it. Did you guys go on a date?
- [26:21]
A
What are you talking about?
- [26:22]
B
Hard hitting news here.
- [26:24]
A
The. You know what's funny? No, it was a great, it was great, fantastic chemistry.
- [26:28]
B
I love that episode.
- [26:29]
A
It was fantastic.
- [26:30]
B
I wanted to hate it so badly when I, I was like, all right, let's.
- [26:33]
A
Yeah, he's the kind of person you would want.
- [26:34]
B
Let's see what he's going to say. And then by the end I'm like, okay, I'm going to subscribe to him on Spotify now.
- [26:39]
A
Join a run club.
- [26:40]
B
Do I like him? Am I joining a run club? So the thing I am, I really liked him.
- [26:45]
A
He did a great job, but he was, he's fantastic. I think that people don't appreciate about Diplo west that he's. He's so global, so intelligent and I think the vibe was so great because we have a similar kind of like, yes.
- [26:59]
B
And I could have listened to that. Episode for four more hours. I listened to it twice, actually.
- [27:06]
A
So I was like, is this like your soft porn Smart Girl Dime Questions episode with tipla?
- [27:12]
B
I am a person who likes intelligent conversations.
- [27:14]
A
You're a sapiosexual.
- [27:16]
B
Yes, I am.
- [27:16]
A
And did you like when we were taking off some clothes? Clothing. Some shoes were being changed. Some footsie was being played at that point.
- [27:23]
B
I was in the shower here.
- [27:26]
A
Where was the shower head? I'm kidding. The. The. I think that the. No, it was great episode. I really enjoyed it.
- [27:33]
B
I also liked your first episode out the back. For anyone who's not listening to Smart Girl Dumb questions, please change that. That's a fantastic podcast. But I really liked your first episode, too, with Mark Cuban. I think I sent that episode to, like, a hundred people.
- [27:44]
A
That a little flirty, too. I think my.
- [27:46]
B
No, I was very, like, mentor.
- [27:48]
A
Yeah, I. I documents great. And we had a really fun conversation. I'm like, why is the NBA better than the US Government at regulating billionaires when the billionaires own the teams on the NBA? Like, it makes no sense.
- [27:59]
B
He was very good at. He was. He was a fantastic. Fantastic at answering your dumb questions.
- [28:05]
A
And also, I think what's great about.
- [28:07]
B
You're not that dumb. I think your questions are actually quite smart.
- [28:09]
A
I think they're disarming, I suppose. But what I think is great. But the idea is, like, be confident enough to be curious. Right. Ask the question. And I feel confident enough in my intelligence that I can ask things that other people would feel embarrassed and want to ask their phone. What I appreciate about Mark is that he wants to have a conversation, and he's also interested in what you think. And he recently said something, he tweeted or put on Blue sky that the thing AI can't. He's quite an AI booster in some ways, but he's like, the thing AI can't do that humans can do is say, I don't know, practice humility. And I thought, I don't know that humans are doing that that much these days, Mark. But he does that. And very rare to find a billionaire that would do that. But. But I was gonna say, yeah, that conversation with Diplo is probably not one that I could have done when I was at the New York Times. I don't think they would have looked frowned upon. This footsie, this. Letting an interview guest touch your feet is not something that would.
- [29:02]
B
I just love that everybody knows that your first relationship was with someone who had a foot fetish, and that ruined you.
- [29:08]
A
Yeah.
- [29:09]
B
It keeps coming up on episodes you.
- [29:11]
A
Gotta listen to the one with Justin Garcia, evolutionary biologists, head of the Kinsey Institute at University of New York. Fantastic sex studies. Fantastic about. Are we having sex these days? You should have him on your show. He's got a book coming out.
- [29:23]
B
You want to introduce us, honey?
- [29:24]
A
I will do. I will totally introduce you. Oh, my God. He has a great book coming out called the Intimate Animal. You should get that book along with the book, Ask a Matchmaker. You know, these are books that you should be reading. Everyone should read more books. Okay. You, by the way, were a great guest.
- [29:37]
B
I was on Smart Girl, Dumb Questions.
- [29:39]
A
You were fantastic. We dove into the matchmaker industry. Did you listen to the episode?
- [29:44]
B
Yes. Three times.
- [29:46]
A
Oh, more than you listen to Diplo. Were you in the shower?
- [29:48]
B
No, I wasn't. I never, I never listened to me as a guest on podcasts ever. I don't even listen to. I can't, like, I don't want to hear my voice.
- [29:56]
A
But this is your favorite podcast.
- [29:57]
B
But this is my favorite podcast. A and B. I actually left when we recorded, I actually left really upset with myself. I was like, oh, you know, I could have done this. And I could. Because I've never been asked the kinds of questions you were asking me on.
- [30:11]
A
A podcast about the business of matchmakers.
- [30:14]
B
The business of matchmakers.
- [30:14]
A
I was, like, fascinated to learn that matchmakers have, like, an industry association. You guys go and cruise together. It's fascinating. Like the, the economics of it, everything. But I, I, I feel what I want to say, but I was really.
- [30:25]
B
Happy with the episode is what I want to say. That's why I listened to the second time to, like, enjoy it. And then the third time I forced my husband to listen to it, I was listening to it in the background.
- [30:31]
A
I hope he was wearing the emoji face. The. I think that the. You were fantastic. People have loved that episode. So many people have written in. They love it. They love your dating advice.
- [30:41]
B
Yeah.
- [30:41]
A
Because you tell it. And actually, I want to apologize to you then that you left feeling that you hadn't done a good job, because that makes me feel.
- [30:48]
B
No, you were great.
- [30:49]
A
No, but part of my job as a host is to make sure that you feel great. And so I'm sorry that. But the journalist in me also likes to ask heart questions. So I want to let you know that you were great in the episode, as you know, because you've listened to it three times.
- [31:04]
B
I just got really nervous, and while I don't suffer from imposter syndrome, just knowing, like, who was in that room that day too, like Esther Perel. And you know, who were the previous guests? Because I actually listened to your podcast. Podcast. And I love the guests that you have on.
- [31:16]
A
I was like, it's called Smart Girl, Dumb Questions. Favorite podcast. She's gone from one of her favorites to favorites. See that? 99 invisible. What? Keep going.
- [31:25]
B
I don't know. Maybe I'll manifest Roman Mars in 2026 to come on the couch here too. Maybe. I love his voice. I don't want to know what he looks like. It's only going to ruin it for me. That's what happened to for me for Pod Save America.
- [31:37]
A
Yeah.
- [31:37]
B
I think their voices are fantastic. And then I saw their faces and.
- [31:40]
A
I was like, no, John Favreau.
- [31:41]
B
I mean, they're not. They're not bad looking.
- [31:43]
A
John Favre is so cute. Okay, they're cute. They're all getting old. No, I once saw Jon Favreau at Barry's Boot Camp, and I was there with my friend Patrick, who's gay, and we got so excited. We saw Jon Favreau of Pox of America, and we're like, should we talk to him? Should we talk to him? And so we go up to him and we're like, he's already engaged at this point. And we're like, oh, you know, we studied politics in college. And he's just like, okay, that's so weird that these, like 30 year olds are cool. And then we just tried to have conversation with him and he was obviously trying to go to class, but did.
- [32:18]
B
He know that you would be Naima Rosa?
- [32:20]
A
I was on the treadmill next to him and I just, like, couldn't focus. I had to move onto the floor. And then when we were leaving, poor Jon Favreau, who's like, these people are probably stalking me, is leaving the parking lot at Barry's West Hollywood. Barry's Boot Camp, West Hollywood. And we see a car come up. And we didn't know it was him, but Patrick kind of went to the back of the car. I went to the front of the car. And then all of a sudden he's blocked between the two people he thought he was stalking. We're stalking him for the last hour. So I apologize. Jon Favreau. We have, I think, since met.
- [32:45]
B
And Rob, do you think I'm his favorite podcast? And therefore he's listening to this right now and he's like, finally an apology from that psycho stalker who studied politics.
- [32:52]
A
You know, I hope that Jon Favreau just like, at the end, I know that I think that at the end of his day, it would be great if he listened to the Ask a Matchmaker.
- [33:00]
B
I think so too.
- [33:01]
A
Because he has so much political stuff swirling around his head. He needs a little bit of decompression. He needs to know if it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend, if it's embarrassing to be him right now. Maybe.
- [33:11]
B
Maybe he'll like Mom Donnie more knowing that he's just a regular guy. Or for coffee dates maybe. Thank you so much, Naima, for joining me today on Ask a Match Speaker. I so appreciate you. You were fantastic.
- [33:22]
A
Oh, thank you.
- [33:23]
B
I know the listeners, they're going to be in the comments on YouTube telling us how they agree or disagree with Naima and me. That's totally fine. We welcome the engagement.
- [33:32]
A
Yeah.
- [33:33]
B
Make sure to follow Naima's work, follow her on her socials, and listen to her podcast. Go subscribe to it now. Smart Girl Dumb questions there. If you've yet to do a subscribe to Ask a Matchmaker, what are we doing now? You get yours comes out on Tuesdays too.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah.
- [33:45]
B
Hello. Now I know how you're gonna be spending Tuesday mornings. Listen to my podcast and Naima's podcast.
- [33:51]
A
Get a workout, take a shower, content people. Yes, the bundle is what they call bundle in the business. That's it for this week on Smart Girl Dumb Questions. We'll be back next week for an all new episode where I will be asking the Smart Girl dumb question. And actually it's fantastic. I talked to Geoffrey Hinton, godfather of AI, and he helps me finally understand how artificial intelligence works and kind of how our brains work too. It's riveting. And you know, now that I know all this, maybe I can have an AI boyfriend, as this conversation alluded to. For more of Matchmaker Maria, you can check out her show which is called Ask a Matchmaker and her book, which is also called Ask a Matchmaker. That woman is very consistent, good, consistent branding. You can also go down two episodes in this feed and hear me asking her all kinds of questions. You can check out the conversation that made her so hot and bothered, my conversation with Diplo, as well as the conversations with Esther Perel and Mark Cuban that were referenced in this episode. That's it for me. I'll see you next week on Smart Girl Dumb Questions. Big thanks to Maria for having me on and also to my producers, Desta Wonderad of Wonder Studios, Melissa Lee Gibson, and of course to Maria's amazing producer, Venetia Gift Garas, who did a great job editing this episode.