Podcast Summary: "Is NASA Worth 25 Billion Bucks?"

Podcast: Smart Girl Dumb Questions
Host: Nayeema Raza
Guest: Casey Dreier (Chief of Space Policy, The Planetary Society)
Date: October 14, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Nayeema Raza dives into the big question: Is NASA worth $25 billion? With guest Casey Dreier, she explores the societal, scientific, and political value of space exploration—and why human curiosity about the cosmos might be more than just dollars and cents. Together, they untangle the often irrational, sometimes spiritual, and inevitably political reasons the United States (and humanity at large) has invested in space, and what might be lost if budgets are slashed.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Spiritual and Symbolic Value of Space Exploration

• Civil Religion of Spaceflight:
  Casey references historian Roger Launius’s concept of a “civil religion” around spaceflight, expressing how for many Americans, space evokes awe, inspiration, and a shared sense of national purpose—emotions typically reserved for religious experiences:

  "When you think about spaceflight, it touches on something that is not just purely in the rational mind... it says something about us as a species or as a Nation. And that makes it special." – Casey (04:01)

• Astronauts as Modern Apostles:
  Astronauts hold a revered place in society, not because people know them personally, but because of what they represent—transcending earthly limitations:

  "People do treat them with reverence. If an astronaut sits down next to you...you want to shake the hands of someone who walked on the moon." – Casey (05:03)

• Profound Personal Experiences:
  Casey credits witnessing the Curiosity rover’s 2011 launch as a life-changing, quasi-conversion experience:

  "Rockets launches are a very powerful thing...I really recommend everyone should just go and experience that once." – Casey (06:05)

2. The Cold War, Apollo Era, and the Shift to Pragmatism

• Apollo as Peak Techno-Optimism:
  The rapid-fire achievements (Sputnik in 1957 to the moon landing in 1969) fueled a belief in unlimited human potential.

  "Within 12 years, you went from the US not being able to launch...to landing two people on the surface of the moon." – Casey (10:37) "Apollo evoked...emotions of awe, devotion, omnipotence, and most importantly, redemption for humanity." – Nayeema quoting Launius (10:08)

• Public Support Was Never Overwhelming:
  Contrary to nostalgic narratives, most Americans were ambivalent:

  "The majority of the public was never that supportive of Apollo...the only time it was ever above 50% was right after Neil Armstrong walked on the moon." – Casey (14:24)

• Why Did Momentum Wane?
  After winning the “space race,” spaceflight lost its urgency. Economic shifts in the 1970s and changing priorities (e.g., Vietnam War expenditures):

  "NASA, you will compete and elbow your way for resources like any other federal agency. You are no longer deemed...this priority thing because we won the race." – Casey (14:01–14:20)

3. The Modern Debate: Should We Spend Billions On Space?

• Cost Perspective:
  Nayeema challenges Casey on the morality of investing in NASA given pressing issues like child poverty and healthcare:

  "Given the state of healthcare in America…why are we then taking dollars and putting it into sending dudes to space?" – Nayeema (16:14)

  Casey provides context:

  "We spent $6 trillion last year. NASA was $25 billion of that. That's less than one half of 1%. Every six days, we spend NASA's budget on Medicare." – Casey (17:03) "If NASA was the thing standing in the way of eradicating childhood poverty...I personally would shut down the agency." – Casey quoting James Beggs (17:33)

• Indirect Societal Benefits:
  Space challenges inspire STEM careers, technological advancement, and national pride—impacting society beyond the technical goals.

  "The act of even doing it...gives you...education...dragging a magnet...all these iron filings pop onto it out of the blue." – Casey (18:22)

• Concrete Everyday Benefits:

  • GPS: "That's a good thing—literally tells us where to go." – Casey (20:45)
  • Semiconductor Advancement (from Apollo program)
  • Solar Panels: Developed/deployed for spacecraft, led to advances on Earth.
  • Communication: Satellite communications, global connectivity

• Unexpected, Long-Term Payoffs:
  Problem-solving in extreme space environments often leads to useful innovations (e.g., miniaturization, nuclear power for tight constraints, climate science inspired by studies of Venus and Mars).

4. The Political Wrestling Match Over NASA Funding

• Partisanship vs. Bipartisanship:
  NASA typically has bipartisan support, but shifting rhetoric and priorities threaten that fragile consensus.

  "It's not inherently partisan...there's nothing inherently that would drive one party to believe in one thing and not the other." – Casey (08:17)

• Current Funding Threats:
  At the time of recording, a proposed 25% budget cut to NASA (with a 50% cut to science) was being hotly debated:

  "That seems bad to me. Within that, science would be cut in half...and that's a lot to cut in one year." – Casey (28:22)

  Bipartisan pushback in Congress demonstrates continued symbolic consensus, at least at high levels:

  "Both House and Senate, which again are controlled by the President's own party, flat out reject that level of cuts to NASA." – Casey (28:49)

• Implications of Cuts:

  • Projects like "Mars Sample Return" (potential to confirm extraterrestrial life) could be canceled (29:53).
  • Reduced funding for telescopes like Hubble and James Webb would mean less science: fewer observations, fewer scientists supported, reduced discovery (38:36–38:50).

5. The Science vs. Human Spaceflight Debate

• Science Is the “Best Bang for Buck”:

  "Science is the most important thing, because it goes further. The universe is really big. Humans could probably only ever go to Moon and Mars...understanding how the universe works...is really, really important." – Casey (37:30)

• But Budget Priorities Say Otherwise:
  NASA spends more on crewed missions (with immediate media appeal) than robotic science, despite public preference for practical/planetary science.

• Commercialization and Privatization:
  The rise of private sector players (e.g., SpaceX) has reduced certain costs but hasn’t replaced the public agency’s role in pure science:

  "SpaceX will not make a Hubble Space Telescope...There's no incentive, even though they could pay for it themselves." – Casey (43:30)

• Science vs. Technology:
  Culture is shifting to value applied, profit-driven “technology” more than foundational “science.”

  "There's been a replacement of the word science in our culture with technology." – Nayeema (44:04) "The ability to assert that anyone who is smart in one area can also do something as equally well in a completely different field is folly." – Casey (44:07)

Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Why Space Is Worth the Money:
  "We're a big and wealthy country. We can do lots of things at the same time. I think we have the right priorities...it's kind of adding to this long-term, high payoff investment." – Casey (17:03)
• On the Transformative Power of Space:
  "Rockets launches are a very powerful thing...I really recommend everyone should just go and experience that once." – Casey (06:05)
• On Science Losing Out in Budgets:
  "Would we lose some of these telescopes we love so much? ...They’d reduce the amount of science they do on the Hubble Space Telescope...You just pay fewer scientists. You just do less science." – Casey (38:36)
• On the Unique Role of Government in Science:
  "Commercial industry will not do science for you. There's no money in it, by definition...That's like why we have a public space agency." – Casey (41:42)
• On Techno-Optimism and Its Limitations:
  "There's no universal intelligence...That ability to do science is very distinct from engineering." – Casey (44:07)
• On Capitalism and Space:
  "We've become too utilitarian with it. And I do think there's a truth again...Going into space does make you feel something...To completely ignore that part for the idea that we can just take, take, take is, I think, diminishes the opportunity we have." – Casey (45:55)

Notable Segments with Timestamps

| Time | Topic | Summary / Quote | |--------------|-------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:30–01:18 | The awe of rocket launches | Casey’s visceral account of a launch that changed his perspective | | 03:14–05:45 | Spaceflight as “civil religion” | The special, irrational reverence for astronauts in American culture | | 10:06–11:38 | Apollo: Peak “techno-optimism” | The mythic status and context of the moon shot | | 13:02–15:01 | Why Apollo momentum fizzled | The impact of Cold War priorities and changing national mood | | 16:14–18:22 | Budget debates: Is space “moral” to fund? | Comparative sizes of NASA budget to health/social programs (“Every six days we spend NASA’s budget on Medicare.”) | | 20:42–22:11 | Everyday benefits from space investment | GPS, semiconductors, solar panels, communications | | 28:13–30:06 | Current political budget fight | $25B threatened with 25% cut, Congress's rare bipartisan pushback | | 29:38–30:28 | Mars Sample Return – Cancelled? | “We have a hypothesis to test. Was this life or not? … This budget cancels the effort to do [bring it back].” | | 34:53–36:17 | NASA vs Space Force | NASA’s civilian, scientific mission versus Space Force’s military mission | | 37:30–39:12 | Science > Human Spaceflight? | Casey argues for priority of science—“goes further” | | 41:42–43:30 | Can commercial space fill the science gap? | “There’s no market incentive to go to Europa, is there?” | | 44:04–45:08 | Tech vs. Science in US culture | Tony Stark and the myth of the universal genius, science’s unique role | | 45:55–47:13 | Is space too capitalist now? | The value of awe, wonder, and public investment unique to exploration | | 47:28–49:12 | Casey’s “dumb” question about consciousness | When do children grasp the difference between past, present, and future? |

Takeaways & Closing Reflections

• Space exploration, for all its spectacle and cost, is about much more than rockets and moonshots—it’s about national identity, inspiration, and the enduring value of curiosity.
• The science budget at NASA is under threat not because of its cost, but due to shifting priorities and the encroachment of commercialization and utilitarian mindsets.
• Many of the greatest benefits—from climate science to communications—arose as offshoots from ostensibly impractical “curiosity projects.”
• The future of space exploration and science in the US may hinge on preserving bipartisan consensus—and not allowing excitement for private rockets to eclipse the foundational, slower, but ultimately more transformative scientific questions.
• As Casey says, we must not “diminish the opportunity we have here and diminish something really, really valuable that it provides us.”

Recommended follow-up:

• Casey Dreier’s podcast: Planetary Radio, Space Policy Edition
• Upcoming episode: Bill Nye discusses the fate of science in modern culture