When Is A Woman’s Prime? with Tamsen Fadal

Summary

Smart Girl Dumb Questions: When Is A Woman’s Prime? with Tamsen Fadal

In the April 4, 2025 episode of Smart Girl Dumb Questions, host Naima Raza engages in a revealing conversation with Tamsen Fadal, a multifaceted expert in journalism, matchmaking, filmmaking, and menopause advocacy. The episode delves deep into the complexities surrounding a woman’s prime, societal expectations, menopause, and modern dating challenges. Below is a detailed summary capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from their enlightening dialogue.

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1. Introduction: Exploring Age and Aging

Naima Raza sets the stage by posing fundamental questions about the prime ages for women and men, highlighting societal shifts in marriage rates and personal fulfillment. She shares startling statistics, noting that "a record 51% of women between the ages of 18 to 40 in America are not married" and that nearly 40% of men and 50% of women believe marriage is no longer essential for a fulfilled life (00:31). Raza expresses her personal struggles with societal pressures, especially regarding career and childbearing, and introduces Tamsen Fadal as an ideal guest to explore these themes.

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2. Defining a Woman’s Prime

Tamsen Fadal offers a nuanced perspective on what constitutes a woman’s prime. She states, “a woman’s prime is when she starts to not worry about what’s going on on the outside in what everyone else is thinking, and she just does her thing” (02:52). Fadal emphasizes that a prime is not strictly tied to age but is more about internal confidence and self-assurance. This redefinition challenges traditional notions that typically associate a woman's prime with her 20s, 30s, or 40s.

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3. Changing Societal Expectations and Narratives

Raza and Fadal discuss how societal narratives around age and marriage are evolving. Fadal points out that while the idea of a man’s prime is often overlooked, “there’s a scarcity mindset that we have been taught for women, money and men and power are scarce resources” (05:05). They critique the outdated competitiveness imposed on women, suggesting that these narratives are shifting towards more empowering and supportive frameworks.

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4. The Overlooked Midlife Health System

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the shortcomings of the health system in supporting women through midlife changes. Fadal laments, “the health system as a whole lacks a lot when it comes to midlife” (09:06). She advocates for increased research and support for women navigating menopause and other midlife transitions, emphasizing the need for better medical education and resources.

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5. Menopause: Breaking the Taboo

The discussion transitions to menopause, a topic often shrouded in stigma and misinformation. Fadal shares her personal journey, noting that societal misconceptions have led to widespread fear and misunderstanding. She highlights the impact of the 2002 study linking hormone replacement therapy (HRT) to breast cancer, which has deeply influenced women's perceptions and medical practices since then (28:19).

Fadal explains her current regimen, which includes estrogen patches, progesterone, and testosterone to manage menopausal symptoms, stating, “Women have levels of testosterone, progesterone, and estrogen, and all of those start to deplete” (30:07). She underscores the importance of accurate information and supportive medical professionals in navigating menopause.

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6. Modern Dating Challenges

Reflecting on her experience as a matchmaker, Fadal contrasts the pre-dating app era with today’s landscape. She reminisces about the personal connections formed without the immediacy of online profiles, suggesting that “too many options are very stressful in some ways” (10:22). The conversation touches on the complexity of modern relationships, where women seek both independence and supportive partners, leading to a balancing act in dating expectations (13:25).

Fadal advises focusing on self-awareness and setting clear expectations early in relationships to foster healthier, more sustainable partnerships (16:52).

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7. Intergenerational Dynamics and Mentorship

Fadal shares her dedication to mentoring young women, despite societal misconceptions that mentorship can be seen as self-sabotage. She emphasizes the value of intergenerational relationships, stating, “I enjoy supporting young women, seeing them succeed” (05:48). This mentorship fosters a non-zero-sum mindset, countering the scarcity narrative and promoting collective growth and support among women.

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8. Advice and Personal Growth

Throughout the episode, Fadal imparts practical advice for navigating midlife and relationships. She encourages women to “work on you and stop looking back” after a breakup, focusing on personal growth to avoid repeating past patterns (17:17). Her insights on maintaining healthy relationships later in life highlight the importance of mutual support, shared values, and individual growth.

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9. Rebranding Menopause and Embracing Change

Towards the end, Raza and Fadal discuss rebranding menopause to reflect its transformative nature. Fadal suggests alternative names like “Bolden” or “Menoprime”, aiming to shift the narrative from one of decline to empowerment and growth (44:50). This rebranding aligns with their overarching theme of redefining a woman’s prime as a period of authenticity and alignment with one’s true self.

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10. Conclusion: Embracing the Prime Years

Naima Raza concludes the episode by affirming that women continue to grow and flourish with age. Reflecting on her conversation with Fadal, Raza recognizes that “women get better with age like a fine wine” (50:19). She celebrates the wisdom, strength, and health that come with maturity, advocating for more open and supportive conversations around women's health and aging.

Raza encourages listeners to engage with the topic, inviting them to send in their questions about the healthcare system and other life aspects, thereby fostering a community of curiosity and support.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tamsen Fadal (02:52): “A woman’s prime is when she starts to not worry about what’s going on on the outside in what everyone else is thinking, and she just does her thing.”
• Naima Raza (00:31): “A record 51% of women between the ages of 18 to 40 in America are not married.”
• Tamsen Fadal (05:05): “There’s a scarcity mindset that we have been taught for women, money and men and power are scarce resources.”
• Tamsen Fadal (09:06): “The health system as a whole lacks a lot when it comes to midlife.”
• Tamsen Fadal (16:52): “Assuming somebody’s going to change when they see all the signs… Those are pink flags.”
• Tamsen Fadal (28:19): “Doctors stopped prescribing, medical schools stopped teaching, talking about it.”
• Tamsen Fadal (44:50): “I like that. I like that.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Smart Girl Dumb Questions provides a comprehensive exploration of what defines a woman’s prime, the societal pressures surrounding aging and relationships, and the critical yet often overlooked topic of menopause. Through candid dialogue and personal anecdotes, Naima Raza and Tamsen Fadal encourage women to embrace their authentic selves, redefine traditional narratives, and prioritize their health and well-being in the process. The conversation is an empowering reminder that age brings wisdom, strength, and the opportunity for profound personal growth.

If you haven't listened to the episode yet, it's a must for anyone seeking to understand and navigate the complexities of modern womanhood with confidence and grace.

Transcript

[Naima Raza]

Maybe dating gets better when you get older.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'm telling you, it gets better. It gets better, I'm telling you.

[Naima Raza]

Does the sex get better?

[Tamsen Fadal]

The sex gets better as. As long as you know, as long as you can communicate and you're not shy about it. Here's the manual. Just follow it.

[Naima Raza]

A sexy, sexy manual.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Don't deviate.

[Naima Raza]

No, actually deviate sometimes. Maybe you're going to find something that I haven't found in the last decade. Smart Girl, Dumb Questions. Welcome to Smart Girl, Dumb Questions.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Naim.

[Naima Raza]

I'm Naima Reza, and today my dumb questions are about age and aging. I want to know when's a woman's prime? When's a man's prime? These days, a record 51% of women between the ages of 18 to 40 in America are not married, and I'm part of that demo. Almost 50% of women and nearly 40% of men think that marriage is no longer important to a fulfilled life. I'm not sure I'm part of that demo, but I don't have kids, and I do feel a lot of pressure to kill it in my career or other parts of my life to compensate or explain that away. So I have a lot of questions here. I want to know why it's so hard to absorb these big social changes into our small personal lives. Why is it harder to partner up and get married? Is that feminism's fault? Is there, as my mother says, just a window, a prime time for all of these major milestones in your life? Or do some things actually get easier as you get older? And how is our health system set up to help people through these middle three decades of our lives? I wanted to ask these questions to Tamsin Fadal, someone who I think is an expert on living well and openly and vulnerably. She's been a journalist, a matchmaker, and a health advocate, and she does not shy away from the thorny or sensitive topics. Like her latest book is called how to Menopause. And by the way, I know when two women are sitting down to talk about love or life or other things, it can feel like a quote unquote, woman's conversation. But this is not that. And so I encourage the men who are here to stick around. Whether you have sex with women, work with women, know a woman, or are a woman, I think this is a pretty important conversation. And for the boys, it's kind of like you get to be in that movie from when we were kids, like where Mel Gibson drops a hairdryer into water and then can Hear everything that Helen Hunt is thinking. Um, it's like that, you know, you get to be Mel Gibson, but without the scandal and the baggage that surrounds actual Mel Gibson. For everyone, this is my conversation with Tamsen Fadal Tamsen. Thanks so much for being here. I so appreciate it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

[Naima Raza]

Yes. You have been a journalist, a matchmaker, a filmmaker, and now a menopause advocate, which I think makes you the perfect person to answer this question of what is a woman's prime?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh, I do love this question. I think a woman's prime is when she starts to not worry about what's going on on the outside in what everyone else is thinking, and she just does her thing. And there is this. This. This safety. I don't know what it is. It kind of clicks on inside where you're like, I've got this. And I think it has less to do with age and more to do with just this. This internal confidence, really.

[Naima Raza]

And you remember that famous Don Lemon moment, of course, where he. He gave an age. Right, Don. Don was just perfectly. You know. We know Don. It's fine. He happy to say.

[Tamsen Fadal]

When a woman is considered to be in her prime, in her 20s and 30s and maybe 40s, what do you. That's not. That's not according to me. Prime for what? It depends. I.

[Naima Raza]

It's just like prime.

[Tamsen Fadal]

If you look it up and that.

[Naima Raza]

Nikki Haley.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

Then I think a presidential candidate. Not in her prime.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Not in her prime. Remember?

[Naima Raza]

I remember.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I. I knew Don from Philadelphia, days.

[Naima Raza]

I've known him for. Did you call him?

[Tamsen Fadal]

No, I did not. I did not.

[Naima Raza]

I found that offensive at the time.

[Tamsen Fadal]

In my 30s, I was like, women of all ages.

[Naima Raza]

What's crazy is I actually saw a survey about this. Took the time in 2023 to do this survey, and they said that 2/3 of Americans, I think, was like 70 +% of men and 50% + percent of women agreed with dawn that it was 20s, 30s, and maybe 40s. Less than 2 thirds said that it was okay to say that on tv.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, my gosh. I swear, I feel like we've come a long way, but that. Exactly. Me and eye roll. I'm like, just, you know, this is why we're here. So let's, like, we're rewriting this narrative.

[Naima Raza]

Let's go.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, that's what I thought then.

[Naima Raza]

I've never heard people talking about men having a prime.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Well, they don't. Men just, you know, they just glide through it all, you know? I think that, yeah. And then I think that's a big problem. And it come, it hits every part of our lives. Right. It hits our career, hits relationships, it hits how we think about ourselves when it comes to, you know, just being, you know, sexual. And I think it hits us in women's health.

[Naima Raza]

Yes.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And what's been done for us. So I think there's no area undone. And I also think it's where I see a lot of this. You know, we always say, like, oh, men go to the golf course and they make all their deals and women are so competitive with each other. And I think it's because that's how we're looking at things. We've been taught to look at these kinds of things all along, like, you know, better, smarter, faster, prettier, younger. And that's not, I don't think that's what it is anymore. And that narrative is changing in a.

[Naima Raza]

Big way, a hundred percent. There is this scarcity mindset that we have been taught that like that for us, for women, money and men and power are scarce resources and you gotta get.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I agree with you and that's not true. And I will tell you, sitting here as a 54 year old woman, that is not true. And it was what I was taught. It took time and energy from like beautiful moments that I should have been present and enjoyed every minute. And so I have made a vow to myself to do that. And I love it. I love supporting young women, I love seeing young women succeed. I, I get excited to share what, what, you know, mistakes I've made or whatever lessons I've had because it feels really good to do that. I don't have children of my own, so I feel like that's kind of what I've been put on the earth to do.

[Naima Raza]

Was there a time that it was hard for you to say your age out loud?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh, yeah. I came from the TV world like we were, we were. I'd be like, oh, you know, 30ish. And I went, what? And then Google, like ruined that, like what was going to happen all of a sudden. There was no way to, there was no way to hide that.

[Naima Raza]

You became notable enough to have a Wikipedia page.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It's out, it's over.

[Naima Raza]

But now you came out of the closet.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I did, I did. But now I say it out loud and I don't care. I don't care.

[Naima Raza]

I think that means you have hit your prime.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I hit my pride.

[Naima Raza]

By your own definition, what age did you become comfortable saying your age out loud?

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, it's interesting. I lost my mom when she was 51 years old, and I never had a road map leading to that. So in my head, and obviously, like, I didn't think this was going to happen, but in my head, I never saw life past 51. And so I think 50 wasn't a hard age for me, so I was fine with that. I was excited about my 50th birthday. Unfortunately, it happened during COVID so it was like me in a fun dress inside my apartment with my husband. But. But I. I don't know. I think when I got into my 50s, I was good with it. I did have hesitation in my 40s, though, because of that, oh, gosh, I'm gonna be 50, and it's gonna be all over.

[Naima Raza]

Right?

[Tamsen Fadal]

It'll be 51. It's gonna be all over. And now I don't think about that. Now I'm. I, you know, I hear myself say it out loud almost as, like, in advance of the conversation, because I'm really proud of it. And I'm so proud of. I'm not only proud of where I've been, but I'm proud of where. What's. What's ahead. I'm excited about what's ahead.

[Naima Raza]

I love that. So the 40s were the silent decade.

[Tamsen Fadal]

30S and 40s, I think that even late 30s, I was like, oh, gosh, I'm getting older. I'm getting up there. You know what?

[Naima Raza]

There is this funny thing on the subject of prime where there's this kind of super age, the 35.

[Tamsen Fadal]

35. 35, right.

[Naima Raza]

It's a magic number. I mean, men who cannot find a clitoris know about the number 35. They're like, oh, 35. Fertility is on the decline.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

And I find it fascinating. And there's this analogous age for men a little bit, where one doctor called it manopause of men hit their kind of 40s, mid-40s. I think 42 was the age he gave me where their, you know, motility and other issues of their sperm start to arise. And men are completely unaware of this? For the most part.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. They're unaware of it, and they have options for it.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. Well, I actually feel it's like, it's not. This isn't to shame men. I actually feel like they're being also misled about their own health, which is that, you know, women, as much as the 35 feels like the scarlet letter, I was really grateful for it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

Because I had been in relationships from when I was 16 to 31, and then I decided, like I had, I would never really been single. And I went and. Because I knew that, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be 35 not far from now. And because egg freezing was a thing, I went and froze my eggs. And I then thought deeply, thought deeply about whether I wanted a family, in what circumstances I want a family, would I be okay to adopt? I had to confront those things. And I think men who have no idea about their own declining fertility have no idea that, you know, a third of infertility issues are male factor infertility. And then there's another additional subset that's female and men compatibility. They have no opportunity to go do the things.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No.

[Naima Raza]

That are frankly, cheaper, easier, and whatever for them or even to confront those ideas.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Well, I think the health system as a whole, you know, lacks a lot when it comes to midlife. And we want to call that midlife. And. And I think that that's a real shame. So I talk so much about women's health, but I do think that across the board, you know, you get to kind of right here and you're in your frame about 40, and everything kind of declines in terms of how we pay attention to people that are a little bit older. So we'll pay attention to people that are much older, are much younger, or leading up to the reproductive years, and then everything else kind of goes away. And I think that's a real shame because I think we have an opportunity now. We hear the word longevity a lot, but I think we have a real opportunity right now to see what. What that looks like and where research dollars need to go to help all of us, quite frankly, you know, live better and not be struggling at that age to start looking for answers.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

As midlife keeps getting older. Actually, by the way, I want to.

[Naima Raza]

Talk before we talk about. Hell, we will talk about both things. I owe you. Love.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Love.

[Naima Raza]

That's good. What's not to love? Except sometimes, I don't know, I had.

[Tamsen Fadal]

A few years that I didn't love love. But yeah. Okay.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. Those are tough years. I've been in those years, too. You had a business as a matchmaker. You were married previously, and you and your then husband had a business matchmaking together. And this was in the kind of 2000s, like 2006. 6, 7.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, it was like 5, 6, 7, 8. Like, in those years.

[Naima Raza]

Okay. It's like peak post sex in the city era in New York. Is that it totally was dating better before the apps.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Gosh, that's such a good question. I think that. I think there was less pressure. Do you know what I mean? I think that because of the convenience of it all, we assume that it's going to be a lot easier today. So I think there's more pressure. Like, you have all these options, but I think sometimes too many options are very stressful in some ways. And I also think that we're doing it like we do everything else. Like, we're working and we're dating and we're. It all goes in the same category. So I think that. Look, when we had the matchmaking business, what was interesting about it is that you couldn't go online and Google somebody or look at their Facebook profile and decide yes or no and make this quick judgment. You had to go and talk to them on the phone or meet them in person.

[Naima Raza]

And like, this all happening in black and white.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I know, it's so odd. It's like a silent movie. And so. So you had to do those things. You had to take time, you had to be present. And so I think that there was something a little nostalgic about that now, when you look at it. But it's much more convenient. It's a little practical, too. Right.

[Naima Raza]

Versus sad.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I know, but. No, it's not always like that. But I'm just saying, like, some of it is. Some of it's. It's. It's tech.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, and so. But. But I also see. I think that you meet people that you would have never have met.

[Naima Raza]

Yes.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, in your own neighborhood or whatever it is.

[Naima Raza]

Right. Which can be exciting.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, totally exciting.

[Naima Raza]

So you wrote these books back in 2007, 2008, with these. With kind of titles emblematic of the time they were called.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Why hasn't he Called? And why hasn't he proposed? Yes, now it would be, why hasn't he. Why hasn't he texted? Why hasn't he DMed? I don't know what it would be called now.

[Naima Raza]

Why isn't he slid into your dad the. Yeah, I know. Why isn't he liking my Instagram stories?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Why didn't he heart me?

[Naima Raza]

Do those books still sell?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, I mean, they do, but I. They're so. They're so outdated. You know, at this point, I think.

[Naima Raza]

Men are in a difficult position of, like, having to do the thing.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

Call. When do you think there'll be books? Like, why hasn't she called? Why hasn't she said yes? Or, you know, I'm hopeful. Why hasn't she?

[Tamsen Fadal]

In the last 20 years, there have been some of Those things. But I don't know. I haven't heard of them. Maybe I need to do a re. A redo. Why. Why hasn't she DMed?

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. Why hasn't she split into your DMs? We have all these excuses for. Or I think sometimes insults for men in midlife, like midlife crisis. They're Peter Pan syndrome. Do you think women can have these things? Midlife crises, Peter Pan?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Sure.

[Naima Raza]

Wendy syndrome?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Maybe. Maybe Peter. I. I think more of the midlife crisis, but I think that, you know, really, that is wrapped up in just anybody that finds a woman irritating or disagreeable, and they're like, oh, she's having a midlife crisis.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And she's, you know, of whatever age she is. But, yeah, I think, Look, I think that we can all have those kind of things. I don't think that those are just men or just women. I don't think that. I think that we. We call it and deal with it in a different way.

[Naima Raza]

Part of what has made dating more challenging in the last, you know, probably the last decades has been the changing role of women societally.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Sure.

[Naima Raza]

And all the emancipation, empowerment that's come with being a woman has become hard.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It has become for.

[Naima Raza]

For men and for women dating. Because we haven't changed our dating expectations at all.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No. But the rules have changed in some ways. Like, the rules have changed, but the expectations have not changed.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And so I think that's. Well, I think that, you know, we are. Expect. We. Most women are like, oh, he didn't call there. They're still saying that if you're. If you're talking about a relationship, he should initiate. But at the same time, we definitely want our independence in a lot of ways. So I. I'm very aware of my. The juxtaposition that I have when I went into this with my, you know, my husband, we were dating. I'm like, he needs to call. He needs to initiate. He needs to. He needs to. I need my independence, and I want it all my way.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And I was like, yep, that's. That's how I want it. I want it. I want my cake, and I want to eat it, too. Like, that's what I want. I do think a lot of men that are supportive of women are appreciative of those things. And I think that if you have a man in your life or a partner or somebody that you're dating or wanting to date, and they are not like that, that's not who you want. You don't have that support over on. You have to look right now when you're dating of who that person is, of what they're going to be like when it comes to children, what they're going to be like when it comes to career change, what they're going to be like when it comes to any other transition in your life. A firing, you know, a second child, whatever, whatever family issues, whatever it looks like. So I'm very aware that what happens early on in your dating is going to explain. Extend out for a very, very long time.

[Naima Raza]

I want to do a rapid fire round of kind of dumb questions when it comes to love, dating, matchmaking, everything. Number one, how do matchmakers get paid?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, they get paid well. I mean, all of them are a little bit different, but ours was like you. The women would come into the system and they would pay a set amount for an amount of time. In New York City, there was a dating law where you could only charge a certain amount of money for a certain number of dates.

[Naima Raza]

Oh, wow. How much was that?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Y. It was $1,000 for 12 months. And so then people would sign up for like, dating. I mean, this is 20 years ago, but yeah, they would sign up for like dating, coaching or styling, all that other stuff around it.

[Naima Raza]

I know some men who pay kind of $25,000.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Naima Raza]

For a matchmaking service and then a massive bonus if they end up.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, yeah. Dating for someone too. There's a bonus too.

[Naima Raza]

Should you get a refund if it's a bad date or divorce?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh. People. Not if it's a divorce, but people want it if it's a bad day.

[Naima Raza]

They do.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, my gosh, yes. Yeah. I used to have a refund account because I was like, I don't want. You're dealing with affairs of the heart, remember?

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And so you really are it really? I didn't understand it totally. When I get it, I'm like, oh, this is going to be fun, social. We're going to introduce people. At the time, there was 100,000 more women than men in New York City. So it was like. It was crazy inter. And then men were always dating younger women. So women who were like, in their 30s were like, oh, yeah, it was totally.

[Naima Raza]

It still is sex.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It totally is. I don't think anything has changed.

[Naima Raza]

Nothing has changed.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I. You know what's funny? I go back and I watch a rerun sometimes and I can't sleep and I'm like, nothing's changed.

[Naima Raza]

Or which one are you?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I don't have any cell phones. I Think Carrie.

[Naima Raza]

You're a Carrie. Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. But sometimes I think Samantha, which is like. I don't know why? Because I'm older now and I do too.

[Naima Raza]

I always felt I was like a Samantha Charlotte mix, which makes no sense. Like a prude woman that gets around a lot.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No, it's good.

[Naima Raza]

It makes no sense. It's not okay. Are. Speaking of money, are prenups a good idea?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, I think they are. I mean, now, nowadays, like when we were talking, going back to talking about what we were talking about before, when women want their own thing, you know, I think they are and I think they are for both. Both, Both sides now. I don't think it's just, you know, before it was like to protect his money.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, I really think that they're a good idea. I do think, you know, you have to make sure it doesn't feel like a business arrangement and feel uncomfortable. And it has to be both sides agreeing, not somebody being pulled into that because that sucks.

[Naima Raza]

Single biggest mistake people make in dating.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Assuming somebody's going to change when they see all the signs. I always call them pink flags. Like they're not red, but they're pink little flags. And I ignored all of them when I was. Went into my first big relationship. I ignored them in a lot of relationships.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And I was like, oh, he's gonna. He didn' that, you know, I upset him. You know, it's my fault. I shouldn't have done. And you know, if you start hearing those words, get out, get out.

[Naima Raza]

Biggest advice for a breakup, single thing.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Work on you and stop looking back like you've got. You've gotta like all in focus. Focus on you. Yeah. Because I think we spend the first six months plus of that, like, maybe he's gonna change or maybe she's gonna change and she moved on to find somebody else. How did that happen? Or why did he just pick up with somebody else and have a relationship? Was it me? What did I do? And hard as it is, because you're dealing with emotions, it's not just practicality, but I think that that focus is essential because eventually you're going to have to do that anyway so you don't wind up with the same type of person again.

[Naima Raza]

So cut the cord, Cut the cord. Cut the cord.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

You separated from your first husband, you start dating again. You got married.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, at 50. 50. Which I swore I'd never do.

[Naima Raza]

Get married again or get married at 50 either. Why?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I didn't even think about getting married.

[Naima Raza]

Well, you said you didn't think about life after 50.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I did not. I didn't. So, but I, I didn't think I was ever gonna get married again.

[Naima Raza]

So. Is marriage better the second time around?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh, yes. Well, I mean, mine is, I don't know that everyone else is. You know, I, I, I guess I feel like here's the reason I think it's better second time around. You know who you are and what you are and you're not gonna accept. You've already been through some of the worst. Divorce is very, very difficult. Whether you wanna have a divorce celebration or not, you know, whether you're very excited and say hallelujah, it's great. It's hard, it's hard. There's a lot that comes with just, it's a loss. Right. But I think the other reason it's great is because we don't, at this age, we don't have these timelines that we're trying to hit. You know, we're not talking about like what's next in our career. Like we're enjoying it and we love the next hurdle, but it's not like panic and we're not talking about children.

[Naima Raza]

Yes.

[Tamsen Fadal]

At this time in our lives. You know, and although you could, we could, we could, we could. We had that good discussion early on.

[Naima Raza]

So maybe we should all get married twice.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I, I mean it was, it's good for me.

[Naima Raza]

You're also in a long distance marriage. Long distance marriage. More perks or more trouble?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Well, we stay most of the time together in both places, but I think totally more perks. Like I get so excited, you know, to see him versus like, oh God, you again. So I like it, I like when there's like that four day break and nobody is doing it to like because they're upset with each other. It's because it's work and so it's like you can't help it. So it's kind of like, you know, it's sexy, it's, it's fun to come back and have like a date night when he gets back on a Friday night or, you know, I'll get wine out or whatever. So yeah, like it, I like it.

[Naima Raza]

The median age for getting married is increasing in the United States. I think it's nearing 30 now for both men and women in New York. It's probably much closer to 40. Is there a prime age to get married?

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, it's a good question. I, I think a good age to get married is, is obviously it's individualized and so I Don't want to give a non answer. But if you don't know who the hell you are, then you shouldn't be getting married.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. So when you know who you are.

[Tamsen Fadal]

When you know who you are. Because if you're relying on a partner to figure that out for you, that doesn't work and it's a lot of pressure.

[Naima Raza]

What about.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It doesn't mean you can't get married when you're young, but young people sometimes know who they are.

[Naima Raza]

I kind of envy people who got married when they're young.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Me too.

[Naima Raza]

I think there's something really beautiful about like being with the person you're with in your 20s.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It's something very sweet. However.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I will say it goes one or two ways when you get older. One way it goes is that there's. You're so close to that person and you've grown together and it's, you know, really been a special and amazing. And you find new ways to, to reinvent what that looks like. And the other way is like, I'm sick of you. And we've lived our separate lives and what are we still doing together?

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And so I, so I do think that it takes work, you know, to stay married. And I, and I love it. Like I wish, you know, my dad was with my, my mother for 20 years and then he was with my stepmother for 20 years. So those are. And, and he always was like my bride. And you know, even 18 years in.

[Naima Raza]

You know, I met Richard Curtis who did the film, he's a director who did Love actually and all these other films. And I met him at a dinner party in la and I remember he said something about, oh, my girlfriend is studying at USC or some ucla. And I thought, oh, this guy probably has like a 30 year old girlfriend. Lo and behold, I had been talking to his girlfriend, his forever girlfriend, Emma Freud for like 10 minutes before I had no idea. But they never got married. They're just forever boyfriend, girlfriend and they have kids together and it's so beautiful. And more and more people are making a decision not to get married.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

What do you think of that decision?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I mean, look, I thought that's where I was going. I really, I really did. And, and I was fine with it. So I would never pass judgment on people saying like, look, we're just going to stay together and this is what works for us.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I think the worst thing that could happen is two people stay together, miserable, then have children and the children see that misery too. I have a really hard time with that, I think it's really sad. And I never thought I'd get married again. And when Ira and I decided to do that, and I said to him, look, I know I want to walk the world with you. You know, I want to walk the earth with you. That's what I want to do. So however we do that is good by me.

[Naima Raza]

My mom wants to know why I'm not married yet. Do you have any. Do you have a good answer for her?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I've heard that so many times. What? Because you're doing you right now. Thank you. Because you're not looking for somebody else to make you whole. And that's when he get married or that's when you can find somebody.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Do you feel sad you're not married?

[Naima Raza]

I'm not obsessed with being married. I think most of my life, I've had partner and I've been partnered and. And I think, like, I like that. But that said, you know, life in New York City is so amazing because I have this amazing, really, like, fabulous group of friends, family. No, I mean, I hear I love you from, like, three or four or five people a day, which is probably more than many married people have. But there's something. I love being in relationships. I'm like a total, like. Like lobster girl, you know, I love it. I love it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

But I will say this. I was totally doing me and having. I was loving my life. And I met Ira at an elevator bank in Miami at a hotel, and it was, like, unexpected. And I. I. And I was like, this dude lives in la. He's really nice, but whatever. And so I. It was the. It was nothing I ever thought was going to happen. So that said, I think that any moment of any day, something can happen. That's. That's how I look at the world.

[Naima Raza]

There seems to be this renaissance in boomer love. By the way, the number one growing age demographic on dating apps is boomers. Yeah, there is the later daters on the Golden Bachelor. Does love get easier as you get older?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I think pressure gets less when you get older for love. You're not trying to do it to show people that you've got somebody. You're not trying to do it because you're having children. Most likely you're not trying to do it because you haven't had it before. Most of the time. Obviously, I'm speaking in generality, but I think it gets easier because I think a lot of the pressure's off.

[Naima Raza]

I do feel like it used to be so easy to fall in love like when I was in my 20s or even when I'm a kid, I remember reading Alain de Botton's book Course of Love and he talks about the open of the book is. It's a fictional story, but a kid goes on holiday at age 5 and falls in love with this woman. I think her name is Victoria. And I'm like, yeah, every time I would go on a train or something when I was a kid, I'd be in love.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You'd fall in love.

[Naima Raza]

I'm like, oh my God, I can't leave my best friend. I can't leave my boyfriend. And then also in my 20s and then in your 30s, I think love just gets harder because you're going on too. And your ability to like, to provide your own joy and amusement and the fullness of your life is so much more. So it's really hard to find time, to find space and to, to commit.

[Tamsen Fadal]

How we do life is so very different. Like my mother went from her parents house to my dad, you know, living with my dad, like that's what she did. There was nothing in between. I mean there wasn't 30 then, you know what I mean? And she got married late. She got married at 28. So, you know, I, I see a lot of different types of relationships and I, and I think that the people that are not really looking for relationships wind up finding great ones because they're whole with themselves. I really do believe that. I do believe that if you don't know who you are after, you know, either a divorce or a large breakup and you don't take time to figure that out, somehow you're going to repeat that. And I didn't think that was true, but I did it. And I've seen how it works and it's this, A repetitive waste of time.

[Naima Raza]

Maybe dating gets better when you get older.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'm telling you, it gets better.

[Naima Raza]

It gets better.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'm telling you.

[Naima Raza]

Does the sex get better?

[Tamsen Fadal]

The sex gets better as long as, you know, as long as you can communicate and you're not shy about it. About it.

[Naima Raza]

Okay.

[Tamsen Fadal]

So you know, you've got to be able to say like, this is what I want. This is where I want it. This is my body. And not be like, oh, I don't want to talk about sex. I don't want to insult you.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And make you think like you don't know what you're doing. Because I think we all think that like they're. The other person's supposed to know.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And I don't think they know. They're like, here's the manual.

[Naima Raza]

But in a very sexy way.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, here's the manual. Just follow it.

[Naima Raza]

A sexy, sexy manual.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Don't deviate.

[Naima Raza]

No, actually deviate sometimes. Maybe you're going to find something that I haven't found in the last decade, you know, maybe so. Natural segue to menopause. I was kind of scared to talk about menopause.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Why?

[Naima Raza]

On the show?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Why?

[Naima Raza]

Because I feel like it ages. No, that's the thing.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Is it 35?

[Naima Raza]

You better be talking about it. So this. I do think that there's a sense of, like, oh, my God, it's a menopause show, and people under a certain age won't pay attention to it. Men won't pay attention to it. So it's something very funny. I just want to disclose that this.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Is not an old person conversation.

[Naima Raza]

This is not an old lady conversation. We need you to know. We need you to know. But I asked several people coming into this conversation, what is the dumbest question that you have heard about menopause?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

One person asked me this. I think I have to say it like a British male accent. How does one catch menopause?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I say that to all the young girls that have worked with me, that they're always like, I think I have a hot flash. I go, listen, you didn't catch menopause for me, so stop it. It's just hot in here. So turn up there.

[Naima Raza]

What is the dumbest question you have been asked about menopause?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh, I've asked so many questions. Can you not have good sex anymore after menopause? I was like, no, it doesn't go away down there. It's all still there. Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

By the way, how do you know if you're just. If you're hot or if it's a hot flash?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, well, most of all, you'll know it's what a hot flash feels like, because it comes from, like, in here, and it's like an inferno. And it pops out in your head and you're.

[Naima Raza]

You're pointing to your boobs.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Everywhere, belly in your core, and it just comes all the way up. Boob sweat, insides. I mean, not everybody, but, yeah. Head sweat, everybody, everywhere.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And it just feels like, oh, gosh, I feel like you're gonna call me when it happens. You're like, oh, I get why you had such a hard time explaining it.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It just feels like an inferno.

[Naima Raza]

Okay. And it starts. It starts in your abdomen and it goes up.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It starts in your core.

[Naima Raza]

I'VE never. I grew up in the tropics. I grew up in Indonesia. So I never feel warm. So I think if I ever feel warm, I'll know. No, I don't know. No, I'll probably know immediately.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Don't worry. If you leave that one out, you're fine.

[Naima Raza]

I'm gonna ask about it. I. I kind of laugh about these quote unquote dumb questions, but actually, two years ago, I knew nothing about menopause. About menopause.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I didn't know anything about perimenopause, and I'd gone through it. So. Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

[Naima Raza]

Then two years ago, there was this big story in the New York Times.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Susan Dominus.

[Naima Raza]

Yes, Susan Dominus's story. It was around hormone replacement therapy and this idea that women have been misled about hrt because there had been some study that linked it that had since been debunked, linking HRT to breast cancer. You know a lot about both. About all of these things. Menopause, HRT and breast cancer.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Because I believe.

[Naima Raza]

Believe that's what your mother had.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, that's what my mother died from. And my stepmother.

[Naima Raza]

And your stepmom. Oh, my gosh. Sorry.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No, a lot of loss.

[Naima Raza]

That's a lot of loss. So explain what happened in that.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

Study. And then talk about that moment where everyone knew something.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It's interesting. A lot of the doctors I've talked to since were practicing doctors during that. So they were. They were practicing before 2002 and then after that study. So those headlines came out. I think it was June or July of. Of. Of 2002. And essentially link those two things together. And if a woman hears breast cancer, like, that's it. That's what the headline says. It was. Since p. Since walked back. However, that stuck in such a way in women's minds that I was actually talking to a woman yesterday. She goes, I don't even know where I heard that. And I go, all of us are like that. We don't even know where we heard it. You understand, like, what the big fear headlines were like, estrogen causes breast cancer. But the walk back didn't get that kind of attention.

[Naima Raza]

And the walk back was one, though, like the 2010.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I don't even know. It's been a couple different times over the years. Even just recently, they came back out and said, like, hey, hey, just so you know, hormone therapy is the most effective treatment. I think it was, like, two years ago. Again, most effective treatment for menopausal symptoms.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And so the problem Is, is that headline stuck, that information stuck. And here's what happened as a result of that. Doctors stopped prescribing, medical schools stopped teaching training, talking about it. Women kind of like fell off the timeline of what happens in medicine. And doctors say that we're. During that time, our phones rang off the hook. We went from about 40% of women that were taking hormones down to 4%. And that number has barely peaked back up again. I think we've talked about it quite a bit over the course of the past three to four years. I'll be interested to see if we see any kind of increase in that number.

[Naima Raza]

And are you on hormone replacement therapy? Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'm on one side or the other right now. I don't know which one.

[Naima Raza]

It's a patch.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I have a patch. It's a estrogen patch. It's called Estrad. And then I take progesterone and then I also take testosterone.

[Naima Raza]

This is confusing to me because estrogen goes down, down when you age. But. Which makes sense.

[Tamsen Fadal]

All of them.

[Naima Raza]

But testosterone also goes down. But aren't estrogen and testosterone opposites? This is urban, a reveal opposite.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Women have. Women have them. Women have levels of testosterone, progesterone and estrogen. And so all of those start to deplete. And what happens in perimenopause is why this is for young people, not for when you're.

[Naima Raza]

And perimenopause is this period before menopause.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Before menopause. And that's really when you're hearing about all these symptoms, all the chaos, all the hormonal chaos, all the symptoms, all your hormones all over the place. I'm moody, I'm irritable, my periods are heavy and erratic. I don't know what's going on. Is it stress? Is it something else? I have brain fog. That's perimenopause. And so that can last up to, you know, seven to ten years before menopause. So when we start having These conversations at 48, that's really late. These conversations should be at 35. So at 35, some women go and start having some of these hormone fluctuations. Forget about the words hormone fluctuations. Start, start in those years. They can be in the late 30s, they can be in the early 40s and on. And so I think if we call it, if we say the hormone fluctuations, it's a little bit easier to, I think, to digest. And like what? I'm perimenopausal because we've given that word in such an age of sexist society, such a Bad connotation that it's. It's hard for any woman to. To want to jump into that club.

[Naima Raza]

Does Hot Girl Summer get harder as we get older? The simple answer is yes. But I'm here to bust some myths around women's weight gain. I'm Naima Raza, host of Smart Girl Dumb Questions, and this is the sponsored Dumb Question brought to you by Noom. So as women's hormones start to fluctuate in our 30s, 40s, and definitely by the time we hit our 50s, it becomes harder to gain muscle and easier to gain weight, which is like the opposite of what you want. Think belly fat. Studies suggest that 70% of women will gain weight annually for up to a decade and that we'll lose 3 to 8% of our muscle mass in menopause. Now, as women, we know what it's like to work twice as hard to get half as far. It is frustrating, but the truth is we can get ahead of these changes with diet, exercise, and our health care. And the earlier we start, the better off we are. Which is why I'm getting on top of this ASAP before those fluctuations begin so I can look and feel good for hot girl summer 2025 and also for hot girl summer 2039. Noom is the perfect companion for that calendar. Calendar. It's a behavioral change based health app that helps you set goals, lose weight, and feel good in your body. And it's now offering hrt, the number one recommended treatment for menopause symptoms. All of which makes NOOM uniquely positioned to help with that stubborn weight gain. Take those hot flashes and make it a Hot girl summer. Visit noom.com menopause today is menopause just puberty in reverse?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I think of it as puberty in reverse. And I do it because my nephew is 12 and 13 during this time and his mom's going through menopause at the same time. And she's like, I feel like I'm going through it. He's going through in reverse. And I went, that's a great way to think about it, right? Yep.

[Naima Raza]

Do men need to know about menopause?

[Tamsen Fadal]

A thousand percent. I'm not a doctor. A thousand percent. They need to know. A thousand I. Yes. There's no medical disclaimer on that one. They need to know.

[Naima Raza]

Can you explain it to them? Them, like the way we say, like, explain. Explain astrophysics to a baby. Explain menopause to a man?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, they need. They need the basics. After 12 months, I'm not going to have my period anymore. So yay for me. But during, during the part leading up to it and after, if I decide to do hormone therapy, these are, these are what I could possibly do. If I decide not to, these are my options. I don't even know if they need to know. But some of the symptoms are going to be, you know, anxiety periods leading up to it. That could be erratic sleepless nights, sweating, low libido.

[Naima Raza]

Right.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Painful sex. Because when estrogen depletes, you have dryness all over your body. As Naomi Watts says, scalp to veg everywhere. And.

[Naima Raza]

But your toes are fine.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And your toes are okay. Well, I don't know.

[Naima Raza]

Give a foot fetish. The sex is going to stay great if your foot fetish.

[Tamsen Fadal]

But. But I think that that's important for a man to know. So when a woman's like, don't touc know. It's. It's not because I don't really want. We're just like, oh, that. That could be painful.

[Naima Raza]

Painful.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And so there's a thing called vaginal estrogen that you can use that is very, very helpful.

[Naima Raza]

Do you put it inside?

[Tamsen Fadal]

You do put it inside.

[Naima Raza]

Like you reach in and just like reach in.

[Tamsen Fadal]

There's a.

[Naima Raza]

Maybe he can put it in.

[Tamsen Fadal]

There's an applicator that you can put it in.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah, applicator makes it last.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I don't know. I want him to put it in, but yeah.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. So confirm. You cannot get pregnant after menopause.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You can get pregnant in perimenopause because you're still getting your period. And in menopause you no longer have a cycle. So that's. That's the end of your reproduct. Reproductive years is menopause.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. This is wildly like a contested issue on Google, by the way.

[Tamsen Fadal]

There's lots of questions about it. Pregnant in menopause. Oh, I mean, I'm not a doctor again. Yeah, you don't have your cycle anymore. And every doctor I've spoken to. But. But they could be confusing it with perimenopause, which is very confusing.

[Naima Raza]

Is there like a menopause test?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I can give you one. Do you want one?

[Naima Raza]

Do you know? Okay, yeah. What's the menopause test?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Put up five fingers. Okay.

[Naima Raza]

Five fingers.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'll just give you the challenge. Do you want to hear if you're in perimenopause? Really? See?

[Naima Raza]

Sure. Okay, we'll do both. Let's do very many positives.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You might not be. I don't know if you think you are or not. Do you have erratic cycles and periods that are all over the place?

[Naima Raza]

No.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

Do I put it up or.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Keep your hands up. Then. Do you get into bed and wake up in a pool of sweat?

[Naima Raza]

No.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

Unless there's a night of torrid lovemaker.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Let's see. Do you have brain fog where you're thinking all the time? That's very, very different. You're having a conversation. I can tell you don't because you rattle off those questions with no notes. But we'll go through it just in case. Anybody else? Do you have a hard time getting to sleep, staying asleep? Do you wake up in the middle of the night, hot, one foot in the covers, one foot out of the car?

[Naima Raza]

No.

[Tamsen Fadal]

All right. But that's good, though. You're not having any of the perimenopause symptoms right now.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Joint pain, there's so many of them, but those are like the big ones. You go anxious and rage. You have rage. One. Okay.

[Naima Raza]

No.

[Tamsen Fadal]

All right.

[Naima Raza]

Okay.

[Tamsen Fadal]

That's. That's my layman.

[Naima Raza]

That's your perimenopause test.

[Tamsen Fadal]

That's my parents. And what's your menopause challenge?

[Naima Raza]

Is there a menopause test?

[Tamsen Fadal]

No, because that's perimenopause. Yeah. Then, you know, oh, well.

[Naima Raza]

But I mean, for everybody.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Have you gone 12 months without your period?

[Naima Raza]

No.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

That's the menopause test. Menopause, 12 months without a period. But there's not like a test. You don't go to the doctor and they give you.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. So let's talk about that. There's blood tests that are out there, and a lot of people are like, I'm going to do my blood test and know if I'm in perimenopause.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Most of the doctors that I have talked to, and these are leading scientists or doctors or obgyn, say that if you go in there in the perimenopause years. Right. Symptoms are going to be the best way to determine whether or not you're in perimenopause. And not a blood test, because your hormones are all over the place and chaotic. So your tests are going to. Could read different things. Now, that doesn't mean not to do blood tests. I. I did them. If you're looking for perimenopause, symptoms are probably going to be your best indication. And then when you're in menopause, I like to keep a check of my levels because now I'm on estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. So I want to make sure that my levels are good and I'm not having too much estrogen or too much testosterone, because that wouldn't be good either.

[Naima Raza]

Other symptoms? Symptoms. So brain fog, tiredness, sleeplessness, and then.

[Tamsen Fadal]

The one that periods for perimenopause.

[Naima Raza]

Heavy periods.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Belly fat.

[Naima Raza]

Belly. Belly fat's the one that girls in my group chat were most scared about.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, well, that one sucks. But yeah, of course.

[Naima Raza]

Any way to prevent that?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Look, if the girls in your group are already talking about it, then you're probably already implementing those lifestyle changes that are really great.

[Naima Raza]

We go to boxing on Fridays.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

That's what we're saying.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And strength training is huge during this. And I didn't start that early like I was. I was at your age on the, on the elliptical, going crazy, trying to pull a sweat. All cardio. So that strength training is great.

[Naima Raza]

And does it have to be heavy weights or it can be like Pilates and stuff?

[Tamsen Fadal]

It can be Pilates, but I think heavy weights too are really important. I do. You're not going to bulk up?

[Naima Raza]

I'm not afraid of bulking up. It's just a less fun workout.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, really? I think weight training is so fun.

[Naima Raza]

I don't know why I depends how hot your trainer is. I have found.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay, we'll get a hot trainer.

[Naima Raza]

Trevor, you're hot. Don't worry. You're hot, Trevor. So, okay, the one that scared me most is I was at an event and Halle Berry talked about having sex and it. Feeling like raping razors.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

Razor blades.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. Painful sex. I know. Well, you know, your estrogen, your estrogen has depleted and your, your skin gets very thin down there. It can be really, really painful. And, and so that's where vaginal estrogen comes into play. That's where lube comes into play. And so that's where when you said, like, can sex be better? Yes, as long as you're aware of what's going on down there and you know, and you make the appropriate adjustments.

[Naima Raza]

And you communicate it because you want to explain like, oh, yeah, what's going on. Yeah. And. And do you put on the, the vaginal cream like every day or is it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, I do. Every day.

[Naima Raza]

And then the lube is as needed. As needed. As needed. Very seriously. We're not doctors. We're talking about menopause. But when you go in to see a doctor, how do you know they're a good doctor? And are we especially for entering this phase in your Life, entering into 40s, 50s, and should we be going to female doctors more?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I don't think it's so Much female doctors, but I do definitely think it's doctors that are educated and aware. Most doctors got very little to none training, Training in medical school. So that said, a lot of them are educating themselves, which kudos to the ones that are because that is a lot to take on. Right. And it's exciting to see that this conversation is really taking a turn because when I was started talking about it five years ago, people were like, don't talk about that. You're going to ruin your career.

[Naima Raza]

You know, because they thought you just, oh, unsexy, unsexy, unsexy. Don't talk about this. Unsexy.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Don't talk about that. Even women saying that to me. So that tells you how far this conversation has gone, which is super exciting to me.

[Naima Raza]

I have not known you long, but I think you like pushing the envelope, pushing it harder.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I have like, I think we both have that little. Yeah, I think we both have that little habit.

[Naima Raza]

It's a good thing.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It's a good thing. I think so. But I. But that made me talk about it more honestly, because I thought that was insane and I thought it was unfair and ridiculous. A billion women would be in menopause by the year 2025. Now, when this was 2020. 2021. But if you're going to a doctor and there's a couple of questions you're just outright that you could ask. And I've talked to two doctors recently, one in LA and one in Miami, and they both said people are. Women are calling their offices now saying, does your doctor treat it with hormones? Does your doctor feel comfortable talking about hormones? These are the questions we're telling women to ask. And the reason we want women to ask that is we don't want them to get into an office and then have a doctor go, yeah, I'm not a big believer in that. Or this is just something you can get through and just move through. All women have gone through this. It's all part of age. If you hear those two things, you can walk out of that doctor's office. I'm asking you to walk out of that doctor's office.

[Naima Raza]

That's very good advice because I remember I went to. I had a gynecologist when I was 31 and I went and I wanted to get a AMH test and all my hormones tested because I was in a relationship. I was thinking of leaving the relationship. I wanted to have that data.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

And the doctor refused to give me the test. I pushed and pushed him and he finally was like, fine. And he didn't even call me with the results. He just, like, sent them, like, with no explanation. No. And I realized I actually shouldn't have done that test with that doctor.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No.

[Naima Raza]

I should have just left that doctor and gone to a doctor that. Who is at least interested in answering my questions. I'm not saying. You're not saying go to a doctor because you.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You want to get their answers. That's not.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah, that's not. Or because you necessarily need to take hormones.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No, not at all.

[Naima Raza]

Have the options.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You need to have somebody that's comfortable with that. With a conversation. With a conversation about menopause, forget hormones or non hormones, but with a conversation about menopause and then with a conversation of your options. And there are two options, you know, hormonal or non hormonal. Those are the options. Or. Or do nothing that I don't recommend. So. Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

And. And you. You found out you were in menopause in this kind of.

[Tamsen Fadal]

In my patient portal.

[Naima Raza]

In your patient portal. That's how you found out your patient.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Portal the doctor put in menopause. Any questions? That was it. I'm like, you told me the biggest transition of my life in my patient portal.

[Naima Raza]

And what precipitated that was this really kind of emergent situation where you were on air, you were sitting in your anchor chair, and you had crazy hot flash.

[Tamsen Fadal]

The inferno and anxiety. The inferno. Heart racing. I could hear it in my ears. Yeah. And I went off the set and. And that started me down that road. And in my case, blood tests did work because I was already in menopause.

[Naima Raza]

It is shocking to me how little we know about periods or about all things women given. This is the most historic, like, since the beginning of time. I think that this is the most, like, common thing that has happened that women. 12 times a year, maybe 13 common things.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It's the thing that.

[Naima Raza]

It's the thing and we know nothing about it. When I would go to a doctor, if I had, like, when I went off birth control and my period was erragunt regular, they're like, we'll just go back on the pill. And I'm like, but just. We do not want to understand or we don't have the information to understand. I mean, we know more about the moon and Mars than we know about menstruation. It's wild. Like, they literally just tell you to go mask your symptoms, just solve it this way.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. And I. And I think that that's why I. I really did a deep dive into this because was. I was like, why. Why don't I know how this happens? Why don't I. How to do this? Why don't I know? Why don't I know the basics of this and what. What I should be expecting? And so that was why. Because as a journalist, I. I covered everything under the sun and not this. Not what was happening to my own body.

[Naima Raza]

What's worse, medical gaslighting or gaslighting and dating?

[Tamsen Fadal]

You know, I. I think both are terrible. But. But gas. Medical gaslighting is worse because it's your health.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And that's really what I. I mean, neither one you want have. But medical gaslighting, when it comes to your health is really scary because. Because you're going to date and you're going to go in and out of those relationships, most likely. But with a. With a doctor, that's a relationship that feels very sacred and very, you know, trusting. And so I think you don't want that to lead you down a wrong path.

[Naima Raza]

There are lots. There's lots of discussions about the negative symptoms of menopause. What actually gets better.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, let's talk about the gifts. That's my favorite topic. Gifts of menopause. I think you have a certain amount of freedom. I think that your mindset adjusts and shifts and you're starting thinking about yourself not being a caretaker to everyone else.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I think. Think the sex gets better because you're willing to talk about it. I think you take a little bit of time to readjust lifestyle changes because you want to feel better. And, you know, quite frankly, I also think that it's a time that women, you know, come into their own and they feel wisdom and they feel like they want to be supportive.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And they feel a little more confident and a little more curious about life.

[Naima Raza]

I love that. If there were a rebrand of menopause and you could call it anything you wanted.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

What would you call it? What's the name you would give it?

[Tamsen Fadal]

I think it's Bolden. I think, like, I don't think golden years work anymore. I think Boulder, I think, you know, I think this is a time that's just pretty special. I mean, I don't know. I think menopause, the word is not so bad anymore. I think it's got a little bit of power behind it now.

[Naima Raza]

Maybe it should be like menoprime power. Menoprime.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I like that. I like that.

[Naima Raza]

Women's prime. Maybe that's the rebrand we need. Okay. Last things I want to discuss before I let you go. You have have built this identity of being a big sister. And now I understand a lot more of where that comes from. From losing your own mom, from not having kids. But we live in a world where, as we were saying before, like, I think women have been programmed to think that money and power and men are scarce.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Right.

[Naima Raza]

And if you ask millennial women like me, who's been super helpful in your career, I've done this survey informally. Most women will explain that. Men.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

Not women. You, I think, buck that trend.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Thank you.

[Naima Raza]

And you think you do it in an industry where it's hard to do it. I mean, Katie Couric, who I will say has been super supportive of my career, is a friend. She wrote really honestly about this in her memoir. She talked about training somebody whose father thought that this woman should replace Katie. And she said, I think the quote is something like at the time, in that context, mentorship seem like self sabotage.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Totally. I had the same thing several times. Yeah, Yeah. I was doing it and I mentored a lot of young women, but I really enjoyed it again because I didn't have children of my own. And then I realized as I was getting ready to wrap up my career and I didn't even know I was wrapping it up then I had a woman that was probably 20 years younger than me, and I loved that intergenerational stuff. So I understand what she means by that and what she meant by that, because you would be training the next person to sit in your seat. And we were always warned in that industry, like, there's always going to be somebody younger that's going to some point.

[Naima Raza]

That'S coming around, how to make it less self sabotagy. Do you think you know who you.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Are and don't think of it like that? I mean, like, I, I just, I. I always thought in my head I didn't know what I was going to do next, but I knew it was going to be something down the line. And so I, I guess I always thought like, well, if that door shuts, I. I know how to open the next door, whatever that door was going to be.

[Naima Raza]

I'm sure you get asked her a lot of dumb questions about not having kids.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I do. Yeah.

[Naima Raza]

What's the dumbest?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Who's going to take care of me when I'm older? I think that's a stupid question. Question.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Because the answer is because I see a lot of people that are not taken care of by their kids and they're older, so I don't even understand what that means. And Then I think also, like, that's the only way I'm ever going to know love. Like, how do you say that? You don't even know why I didn't have kids. You know what I mean? So I. I always think when people do that, they don't know if somebody can't have them or didn't have them or. So I always find those questions. I try to warn people, like, don't do that. I mean, I'm fine with it, but I think some women can really be hurtful, too.

[Naima Raza]

Of course. Yeah. I. I think I'm curious, like, what advice you have for me, because I'm, you know, I did this. I froze my eggs in my early 30s. Then the pandemic happened, and I was like, you know, I haven't. And I. And I wrote about this in the Times, and I was like, I really was excited to be single for the first time in my life. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, I actually would like a partner now. And now fast forward, like, I don't have kids. And I'm thinking, I don't know, if you talk to yourself 15, 20 years years ago, what would you tell yourself about that decision and how to think about it? Yeah, not the answer, but the how to think about it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No, I like that. I mean, I was. I was asked how. When I was in my 30s, there was a big article about how I didn't have children. I chose my career, and that was not what I did. I just didn't have children at that age. And I think I would have given myself a lot more. A lot less panic about it. I was very panicked, like, oh, my God, this decision is going to affect me the rest of my life. Am I. Do I do it? Do I not? Do I do it? Do I not? And I would wake up, like, all the time, I'd be thinking about that. And I just think that there's more opportunity now to do that than ever before. Later, later in life. And I think that pushing that now, you know, pushing that when you don't know if you're 100%, like, you better be 150%. And so I think, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what. I think. That's what was good for me. And I think that if you're doing that because you're trying to hit a timeline, then that that is a wrong reason to do it. That is the wrong reason to do it.

[Naima Raza]

Although it's like a very big decision.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It'S a huge decision, the biggest decision.

[Naima Raza]

You make I think if you don't have kids, there's this pressure to like, have an even bigger career.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It is.

[Naima Raza]

I feel a pressure to have a bigger career. I felt it because I don't have kids.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. I fe. I felt I was supposed to be super success, more successful than everybody else because I. I had all that extra time.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And then I was like, that is bullshit. Like, I don't have. Who am I? Who do I owe that explanation to? So.

[Naima Raza]

And hotter. Because it's like, you got no excuse. You better work out exactly right. And you do not regret this decision?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Not at all. No, I don't. I don't. I have a nephew that I love dearly. And like, I hold him so close, it's not even funny. Like, I feel like he's my son. I have young women that I adore. And I don't. I know. Not for a minute. And I have two bo Kids now with my husband that I love. That I love. And so I'm a mom to them.

[Naima Raza]

I love it. Last question. We ask every guest. You are so wise. What are you dumb about?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh.

[Naima Raza]

What do you not know? What's a dumb question? We can help you answer?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, gosh. Let's see. I don't know how to get more hours in a day. That's what I want to constantly do is get more hours in a day. Where's Neil? I don't know. Ask Tim Ferriss or.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah, Neil degrasse Tyson.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You can you actually just a combo.

[Naima Raza]

You need negative gravity matter.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

And then you can disrupt the space time continuum and get wormholes and go through it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

That's what.

[Naima Raza]

I didn't know it, but he explained it to me. It broke my mind. You need a wormhole. Thank you so much, Samson, for doing this. The book is called how to Menopause. It will make you so much smarter about all things menopause, all things life. By the way, I gotta say, I. I hope it's okay to say this because. I don't know, but I feel like your mom would be so proud.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh, thank you. That means so much.

[Naima Raza]

I hope it's okay to say that.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yes, it's wonderful.

[Naima Raza]

I lost my dad and.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Sorry.

[Naima Raza]

And I. I feel like it's nice when people tell me that.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'm sure he is watching you. I'm very proud.

[Naima Raza]

A.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Thank you.

[Naima Raza]

I appreciate it. Okay. Now that we have tears in our eyes, I really like Tamson Fadal and I appreciate how generous and honest she was in her advice. Especially around the whole having kids thing. And I think those are the kinds of intergenerational non zero sum, non scarcity mindset conversations I want women to have more of and I want to have more of. And her honesty throughout kind of made me think Tamsen Fadal is definitely in her prime, especially if you like her definition of prime being this time where you're authentic and aligned in your own body. Now there's still a part of me that feels like there's some kind of peakness in your late 20s and early 30s as a woman. But I look back at that time and I realized, wow, I am so much more self aware and compassionate and wiser and stronger and healthier than I was at that age. And I think I'm a better sister and daughter and friend and colleague and hopefully one day a better mother than I would have been then. All of which is to say I do think women get better with age like a fine wine, as they say about men. And I still feel, maybe incorrectly, that I have the kind of energy of a 27 year old and the fearlessness of a 5 year old, which I think makes me actually a teenager. And I think Tamsen Fadal has a lot of that too. I am so glad there's someone like her kind of holding our health system up to a bit of scrutiny, particularly when it comes to women's health and issues like menopause. It is wild how little we know and how ill prepared our medical system is to help us navigate these middle three decades of our our lives. And as you know from my conversations with Mark Cuban and Tamson, healthcare is a subject that I'm really passionate about and one that I want to keep exploring on this show. So do me a favor and send me your dumb questions about the healthcare system. Send me your dumb questions about all things in life, please. You can email me at naimaraza101mail.com you can drop a comment or review wherever you're watching or listening to this show. And that's it for for this week. By the way, before I go, I want to say a very special thanks to my brand partners at noom, who have all these great solutions for belly fat and HRT and other things health. So go to noom.com and check out what they have to offer. Today's show was produced with Sick Bird Productions. Jade Watson, Deanna DaCosta, Healy Cruz, with editorial direction from Dana Bellout and inspiration from the wonderful Juliana D'Orzo. Casagneu edited this episode with additional editorial from Hollywood Thiel and support from Holly Fisher. Our theme music is by David Kahn, and I'm your host, Naima Raza.