Podcast Summary: Smart Girl Dumb Questions

Episode Title: Why Is Love Harder Now? ft. Esther Perel
Host: Nayeema Raza
Guest: Esther Perel, psychotherapist and author
Date: September 30, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deeply engaged and insightful episode, Nayeema Raza sits down with world-renowned psychotherapist and relationship expert Esther Perel to unpack why love and relationships seem harder in modern times. The conversation flows from the impact of shifting gender roles and cultural expectations to the commodification of intimacy in the digital era, examining both historical and deeply personal perspectives. Perel illuminates the implications of societal change on love, connection, vulnerability, and identity, while Nayeema brings her own cross-cultural and generational context to the table.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Rules to Negotiation: The Shift in Relationship Frameworks

• Cultural Upbringing and Modern Identity (02:02–05:49)

  • Perel describes the “constant negotiation” experienced by those straddling traditional and modern cultures.
  • Quote [02:02]:

    “There's a lot of certainty here, very little freedom. There's a lot of freedom here and very little certainty. Because everything now has to be negotiated, right? Everything that was a rule has become a conversation.” — Esther Perel

  • Contrasts previous generations’ defined roles (duty, loyalty, certainty) with today's climate of choice, freedom, and self-doubt.

• The Generational Impact of Feminism (05:49–08:41)

  • Perel lauds feminism as a transformational force, but describes ongoing multigenerational adaptation.
  • Quote [05:49]:

    “Change happens in multiple phases. You can change the law, you can open doors. But what follows, in terms of the intricacies of the experience, takes more than one generation.” — Esther Perel

  • Notes the “designer generation” now attempts to custom-build relationships, demanding acute self-knowledge.

2. The Rise of the Individual and Loss of ‘Other’

• Self vs. Other (08:35–09:15)

  • The overindulgence in “self” (self-help, self-care) may come at the cost of consideration for others.
  • Quote [08:41]:

    “I think that the over index, the overemphasis on the self, at a detriment of our ability to actually think about others, is not necessarily helping us at this point.” — Esther Perel

• Obligation as a Source of Meaning (09:15–10:51)

  • Nayeema reflects on the generative side of obligation, to which Perel responds:

    “Obligation is not hot at this moment...Authenticity and personal truth and honesty is much more [valued]. And we will forego our relationships at this moment in order to preserve this authenticity.” — Esther Perel [09:38]

3. Changing Gender Roles: Where Are Men in the Revolution?

• Masculinity and Social Change (10:51–13:25)

  • Perel asserts that men have not experienced a systematic equivalent of the feminist revolution, and that rigid gender roles serve as tools of social control—especially in times of rising authoritarianism.
  • Quote [12:17]:

    “Everybody stands to gain from revisiting taboos, rigidities, set norms, and constraining and constricting narratives and roles.” — Esther Perel

• Tradwife Trend and Authoritarian Order (13:02–15:53)

  • Perel connects renewed interest in traditional gender roles ('tradwives') to social backlashes and authoritarian impulses:

    “Wherever you have rises of authoritarianism… it is accompanied with a redefinition of rigid gender roles.” — Esther Perel [14:41]

4. Love, Relationships, and Commodification in the Digital Age

• Romantic Consumerism & Emotional Capitalism (16:45–18:52)

  • Perel critiques the commoditization of relationships and emotional life:

    “Consumerism marrying romanticism, becoming romantic consumerism...emotional capitalism.” — Esther Perel [17:15]

  • Relationship-seeking has become transactional, aided by dating apps and the “math” of compatibility.

• Dating Then vs. Now: Serendipity Lost (19:03–21:09)

  • Perel prefers dating in 1985 to 2025 for its spontaneity and availability for real-world connection:

    “In 85 we were less…socially atrophied…We were still more available to serendipity and to mystery and the unknown.” — Esther Perel [19:10]

  • She highlights the uniquely open era of 1968–82, post-pill and pre-AIDS, as a historical sweet spot for sexual and relational adventure.

5. Longevity, Health, and the Importance of Relationships

• Beyond Romantic Love (22:19–24:03)

  • The Harvard Study is cited, showing the quality (not just duration) of relationships is the prime determinant of happiness and health.

    “The quality of your relationships determines the quality of your life.” — Esther Perel [22:49]

  • Emphasizes both romantic and non-romantic connections; cautions against individualistic “lifespan hacking.”

• Bad Relationships as a Health Risk (24:10–24:33)

  • Acknowledges the health dangers of toxic relationships, not just loneliness.

6. The Difficulty of Falling in Love as We Age

• Crushes, Imagination, and Rationality (25:13–29:35)

  • The imagination and carefreeness of youth make it easier to have crushes and fall in love; with maturity comes rationality and caution.

    “Crushing is a kind of surrender…lifting yourself from the mundane, from the ordinary life, the reality you are in.” — Esther Perel [26:58]

  • The shift from love story (youth) to life story (adulthood) complicates falling in love.

• Malleability and Vulnerability (39:59–41:25)

  • Maturity brings self-definition and less malleability, reducing our openness to being shaped by others, which impedes new love.

    “When you’re young, you’re more malleable… At your end of the 30s, you are quite formed.” — Esther Perel [41:09]

• The Inverted V of Falling in Love (29:50–31:43, 36:24–37:43)

  • Nayeema observes that the ease of falling in love follows an “inverted V”: easy and frequent when very young, harder in midlife, possibly easier again in old age.

    “You will have less crushes because you're looking for something else.” — Esther Perel [29:35] “Why is it harder to fall in love as you get older? …It's partly like—a search filter, that's a different reality. It's partly an openness, a carefreeness, liberation that you're talking about…” — Nayeema Raza [36:47]

• Romantic Agency and the Biological “Clock” (37:09–39:03)

  • Perel pushes creative solutions for those wanting children, encouraging agency beyond traditional couple-based paths.

7. Vulnerability in Love and Society

• Risk, Safety, and Aliveness (32:08–35:34)

  • Perel sees “aliveness”—the opposite of deadness—as a vital, erotic charge emerging from adversity or risk.
  • She ties today’s obsession with safety to relational risk-aversion, leading to less experimentation and spontaneity.

• The Burden of the Self (36:39–37:09)

  • Weakening of communal and religious institutions leaves modern individuals to arbitrate their own happiness and cope with existential uncertainty alone.

    “…the burdens of the self have never been heavier. It's all on me to figure this thing out.” — Esther Perel [36:39]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Transactional Culture:

  “We are bringing in an enormously transactional—what will satisfy me?—what is on my list? …And when I don't like it, I dump. I ghost, I follow, I go on to the next and I swipe.” — Esther Perel [18:19]

• On Marriage and Success:

  “People really do equate success with longevity. And man, for most of history, people had longevity. That did not necessarily mean success. They just didn't have an option.” — Esther Perel [21:31]

• On Crushing in Old Age:

  “In your 60s, 70s, 80s, you're free again… That project of family making with the intense years of in-between… takes you on a different track.”
  — Esther Perel [30:16–30:38]

• On Therapy:

  “If you're paying the same couples therapist for 10 years, then maybe you should consider another one or the therapist should consider recommending you someone else.” — Esther Perel [43:00]

• On Fights in Relationships:

  “It's not what you fight about, it's what you're fighting for… power and control… care and closeness… respect and recognition.” — Esther Perel [47:07–47:54]

• On Admiration:

  “They admire their partner. They're not just respect, because admiration involves an idealization. You look up to people you admire. When people admire their partner after 10, 15, 30 years, they have a good thing going.” — Esther Perel [57:20]

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Introduction/Nostalgic first meeting, old recording | 00:00–05:49| | Generational shift: rules, freedom, feminism | 05:49–08:41| | Rise of individualism vs. duty, reflections on obligation | 08:41–10:51| | Gender revolutions; masculinity, trad wives | 10:51–15:53| | Emotional capitalism, commoditization of relationships | 16:45–18:52| | Dating: 1985 vs. 2025, periods of sexual freedom | 19:03–21:09| | Longevity, relationship quality and health | 22:19–24:10| | Imagination, crushes, love over life stages | 25:13–31:43| | Aliveness, trauma, risk and safety in love | 32:08–35:34| | Burdens of self, existential uncertainty | 36:39–37:09| | Biological, existential and social pressures; agency | 37:09–39:03| | Lightning round: fights, contempt, therapy, relationship talk | 47:07–54:14| | Admiration, creative couples, final curiosity questions | 56:08–60:24|

Additional Memorable Moments

• Lightning Round (47:07–54:14): Perel identifies primary reasons couples fight (power/control, care/closeness, respect/recognition) and answers provocative questions on therapy, communication, and infidelity.
• On Therapy's Limits: Encourages changing therapists for new perspectives, especially in long-term couples work.

Final Reflections and Host’s Takeaway

Nayeema closes by emphasizing the “inverted V” of falling in love over the lifespan, the historical contexts that make relational life what it is, and Perel’s wisdom about caring for ‘the other’ as well as the self. She also highlights the importance of social support among women and the need for curiosity—remaining open to new perspectives on love and connection.

For listeners: this episode is an enriching, nuanced exploration of why love feels more complicated now—delivered with warmth, candidness, and depth by two highly self-aware, reflective women examining not just their own experiences but the broader patterns shaping our relational lives.