Are These Common Money Habits Broke, Average or Wealthy?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel

Episode: Are These Common Money Habits Broke, Average or Wealthy?
Air Date: September 11, 2025
Podcast Host: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

Rachel Cruze and George Kamel, money experts and friends, sit down for a lively discussion as they dissect a variety of “common money habits” and categorize them as “broke, average, or wealthy.” Their aim: bust myths, stir the pot a little, and help listeners learn which habits actually lead to building wealth—and which just keep you stuck. In classic Smart Money Happy Hour fashion, the conversation blends pop culture, humor, and solid financial wisdom, inviting listeners to play along and reflect on their own habits.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Main Theme: Broke, Average, or Wealthy Money Habits (03:10)

• Premise: Rachel and George read out popular money habits and debate which category they really belong to—“broke,” “average,” or “wealthy.”
• Goal: Challenge assumptions (“That’s what wealthy people do, right?”) and spotlight the truth behind habits that often lead to or prevent financial success.
• Rachel: “There are a lot of things floating around that people just assume, ‘Oh, that’s what wealthy people do.’...And it can be distractions at times.” (02:29)
• Listener Engagement: Encouraged to play along—no real judgment, just some fun, honest reflection.

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2. Deep Dives on Specific Money Habits

a. Investing 15% in Retirement (03:14)

• Rated: Wealthy
• Why: Consistent investing, especially in index funds over 30 years, is cited as a hallmark habit of quiet millionaires.
• Quote: “You don’t have to be a financial genius or some Wall Street guru. No, it’s not for people of a certain IQ...This is how people become wealthy.” –Rachel (04:22)
• Ramsey Philosophy: This aligns with “baby step four” (07:37) from their proven money plan.
• Warning: Don’t rely on Social Security (“Do better.”) –George (05:13)
• Memorable Metaphor: Compound interest is “an incredible thing.” (05:01)

b. Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOCs) (05:51)

• Rated: Average
• Why: Used mostly for middle-class “stuff” like renovations or debt consolidation; risky due to collateralizing your home and variable interest rates.
• Quote: “This is basically a reverse mortgage for people under 65.” –George (06:30)
• Advice: “Stay the course, people. Do not do it; you’re just robbing yourself and moving backwards.” –Rachel (07:02)

c. Social Membership Clubs (08:22)

• Rated: Wealthy
• Why: High threshold for entry, sometimes six-figure buy-ins; more about maintaining a social circle than wealth-building.
• Memorable Moment: Humorous aside about the world of country clubs, golf stories, and who really belongs.
• George: “I’m more of a putt putt guy.” (09:47)

d. Combining Bank Accounts (12:07)

• Rated: Wealthy mindset
• Why: Not exclusive to the rich, but joint finances reflect teamwork and trust, proven to build wealth faster.
• Quote: “People that build wealth together win faster.” –Rachel (12:27)
• Warning: Separate accounts can hide problems; joint accounts bring them to the surface sooner. (13:13)

e. Day Trading/Cash Flow Investing for Big Purchases (14:46)

• Rated: Broke to Average
• Why: High intelligence needed but high risk; often leads to losses and strains relationships.
• Quote: “Day trading... there’s a spirit of greed there.” –Rachel (15:26)
• Biblical Tie-in: “Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.” –George, paraphrasing Proverbs (17:28, 14:11)

f. Giving Money Away (Generosity) (19:45)

• Rated: All three – Broke, Average, and Wealthy
• Why: Generosity is a “wealthy” trait but can be practiced at any stage; builds joy and peace.
• Quote: “Give a little until you can give a lot.” –Rachel (20:43)
• Insight: Generosity guards against fear, greed, and pride. (21:13)

g. Refinancing the House (21:25)

• Rated: Average to Wealthy
• Why: Smart if used to shorten loan term or take advantage of rates, not as a stopgap.
• Advice: “It’s smart to look at your options and to shorten your timeline anytime you can.” –George (22:31)

h. Budgeting (22:46)

• Rated: Average to Wealthy
• Why: Budgeting is key to moving from broke to average to wealthy; the first step toward escaping paycheck-to-paycheck life.
• Quote: “Budgeting helps you go from broke to average and then eventually average to wealthy.” –Rachel (23:41)

i. Chasing the Trend Cycle (25:49)

• Rated: Average
• Why: Chasing trends (fashion, lifestyle, investing) keeps you average, not wealthy.
• Quote: “If you follow the trends, you fall for the traps.” –George (27:00)
• Insight: The truly wealthy aim for quiet, timeless investments—not flashy trends.

j. Financial Education (29:50)

• Rated: For Everyone
• Why: Intentional learning leads to growth regardless of income.
• Quote: “I want to talk about money so we can stop talking about money.” –George (31:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rachel on teamwork in marriage: “People that build wealth together win faster. And so it is a team sport, if you will.” (12:26)
• George on HELOCs: “This is basically a reverse mortgage for people under 65.” (06:30)
• Rachel on day trading: “There’s a spirit of greed there.” (15:26)
• Proverbs wisdom: “Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.” –George (17:28)
• Rachel’s motto: “Give a little until you can give a lot.” (20:43)
• George on financial goals: “I want to talk about money so we can stop talking about money.” (31:23)

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Fun Tangents and Personal Stories

• Country Club Stories: Lighthearted takes on golf, the stress of country club commitments, and a funny anecdote involving Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman (10:29–11:39).
• Fashion Trends: Rachel critiques current trends like mesh shoes and barrel jeans—“I don’t like them, but they’re out there.” (27:18)
• Personal Guilty Rabbit Holes:
  • Rachel: Church history and the great schisms (35:11–39:46)
  • George: Obsessing over washer/dryer technology (39:59–41:00)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Game begins – Broke, Average, or Wealthy: 03:10
• Investing 15% in Retirement: 03:14–05:43
• Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC): 05:51–07:11
• Social Membership Clubs/Country Clubs: 08:22–11:39
• Combining Bank Accounts: 12:07–14:46
• Day Trading: 14:54–18:29
• Generosity & Giving: 19:38–21:18
• Refinancing Housing: 21:25–22:45
• Budgeting: 22:46–24:33
• Chasing Trends: 25:49–29:03
• Financial Education: 29:50–32:19
• Drinks Review: 33:09–34:42
• Guilty As Charged (Rabbit hole discussion): 34:45–41:30

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Tone & Language

• The conversation is casual, witty, and welcoming. Both George and Rachel use relatable analogies, pop culture references, and a blend of humor and sincerity to connect with listeners across all financial backgrounds.
• Example George Humor: “My goal is to never be on trend, and that way, I’ll never go out of style.” (28:41)
• The hosts invite commentary, self-reflection, and even a little disagreement—making personal finance feel accessible and non-judgmental.

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Final Takeaways (32:26)

• Lean into the wealthy mindset: Not to amass riches for their own sake, but for the freedom, peace, and generosity it allows.
• "Wealthy people are earning interest, broke people are paying it, and average people are just trying to keep up." –George (32:46)
• Rachel: “Let’s all lean towards the wealthier mindset...so that money doesn’t have to be an issue and you can do great things with it.” (32:26)

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Whether you’re broke, average, or wealthy, these money habits—done with intention and the right mindset—can pave the way to a life you love and the freedom to focus on what truly matters.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

You think it's a financial slam dunk, but it's actually a major airball. That's right. I can make sports references. And today we're playing a little game of broke, average, or wealthy. Nothing else will trip you up more when it comes to building wealth. And I think all of those three can play into it.

[A]

Oh, this is gonna stir the pot. This will. This will make people mad.

[B]

It's a bear.

[A]

Hey, guys, I'm Rachel Cruz.

[B]

I'm George Camel, and this is Smart Money Happy Hour.

[A]

Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. Everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

[B]

But first, we have to talk about what we're sipping on. Rachel, we must.

[A]

Okay. And our production coordinator went home to get a blender to make this drink, so be very kind with your words. The amount of effort that went into.

[B]

This, I have no blame toward the person who made it. I have a blame toward the recipe.

[A]

There you go. It's the recipe's fault.

[B]

There we go. This is a cucumber lime mocktail.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

We're gonna give you the rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode. And I highly recommend you stick around until the end if you want an unfiltered review of this drink.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

All right, moving on. Have you ever seen an influencer. Don't answer yet. Post something they think is gonna go viral, but the comment section is just full of comments that's like, who's gonna tell her? This is just not it, sis. Which I find condescending.

[A]

To be fair, I call her Cis.

[B]

Don't call anyone Cis.

[A]

You're not related that you're not friends.

[B]

With, deeply or related to.

[A]

That's fair. That's fair. Yeah.

[B]

Just like you call me bro, don't call me bro.

[A]

Dude. That's what my kids say.

[B]

Only my bros call me bro.

[A]

Bro. That's what people. That's what my kids are saying now. They came home from school being like, hey, bruh.

[B]

Amelia is like, hey, brah.

[A]

Not as much. Amelia, Charles and Caroline. Yes.

[B]

Because Amelia respects her elders.

[A]

I think so, too. I know, but, yeah, it's like they're not quite getting the vibe. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's kind of. That's kind of the lesson there.

[B]

That's the energy that we're going to attempt to bring in today's episode to set the record straight on financial habits that are broke and average or wealthy. It's Basically a fun way we can be judgmental, which I think is the goal of life.

[A]

That's fair. Yes. Because I think there are a lot of things floating around that people just assume. Oh, that that's what wealthy people do. Right. And it can be distractions at times. So we're going to bring the reality to some of these, you know, money trends or situations and be like, okay, is this really like what broke people are doing, but they're acting wealthy, average people? Sure. It's of kind.

[B]

Kind of an average middle class. Okay.

[A]

Or is this what wealthy people do? Right.

[B]

So I like it. We're going to make it into a little game. We're going to read popular money strategies and decide whether it's broke, wealthy or average. And play along in the comments as we go or in real time as you listen to this. If you're with someone or if you want to talk to yourself, we don't judge unless it's inside of the episode.

[A]

There you go. That's right. Perfect. All right, first up, George, what is it?

[B]

Investing 15% in retirement. Is that broke, average or wealthy?

[A]

Oh, this is a little softball. A little easy pitch for the first one. I'm going wealthy. So there's a guy on Instagram, we actually talked about it in a meeting earlier today.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'll give him a shout out because he's great.

[B]

Sure. J.C. rodriguez.

[A]

J.C. rodriguez.

[B]

Nice guy.

[A]

Yeah. And he, I found his, his account recently and he interviews people on the streets and a lot of them are like these like, totally corporate quiet millionaires. Like, they don't look wealthy. And then he starts interviewing. I'm like, what have you done? Like, well. And they talk about how they've become multi millionaires. And one of the number one things always that helped them was investing. They all say, fund every retirement account you can and do it consistently. And they do it over 30 years and they retire at like 60 with millions of dollars. And it's just like, this is what you do. Like one guy, which I wouldn't recommend this necessarily, but he was like, you don't have to understand it. Just put it in index funds. That's all you got to do. Just put it in index funds and you're going to be fine.

[B]

Basically. You don't have to be a financial genius or some Wall street guru. No, it's not for people of a certain iq.

[A]

No. But it is the key of building wealth today. It really is. Like, try to ensure, you guys, this is how people become wealthy. Yeah. And I love it.

[B]

And in our Seven Ramsey baby steps. This proven money plan that we've developed over the last few decades. Baby step four, once you're out of debt with an emergency fund, Is to invest 15% in retirement. And so whether you are broke, average or wealthy right now, if you invest 15%, once you follow those steps and you continuously do that for the rest of your life, it's almost a guarantee that you're going to have a seven figure portfolio for sure.

[A]

Yeah. It's amazing. Compound interest is an incredible thing.

[B]

And with the tax advantages of retirement accounts where, you know, maybe it's a Roth account, it grows tax free, it's a major win. That's like net income.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In retirement.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

So, and here's the thing. If you're relying on Social Security, do better. Because the average Social Security check falls just shy of about two grand a month. There's no guarantee this program will even be around when younger generations get there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So do not rely on it. We take calls on the Ramsey show all the time of people who thought it would be enough or they just didn't save for whatever reason and they're trying to live off of Social Security. It's a sad, scary scenario.

[A]

Yeah. And the wildest thing is people that do have Social Security, but they've done the baby steps and they like paid off their house and everything, they use that money, it's gravy. To like buy food and they take everything they've saved to like go travel. Like, it's funny. Like they can like use it to their advantage versus depending upon it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right up next, George. HELOCs home equity lines of average are.

[B]

Wealthy, I would say.

[A]

I'm going to say average.

[B]

Average people do this because broke people likely may not have a home yet.

[A]

May not have equity in the home.

[B]

May not have equity in the home. And usually helocs are done to do middle class stuff like build a pool or renovate the kitchen or maybe even pay off other debt or fund college because they didn't save. And this is really scary because your home is collateral. And so if you don't make the payments on the heloc, which by the way, have a variable interest rate, in most cases, you could lose your house.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. And you go backwards in your equity. Right. You're borrowing on it.

[B]

This is basically a reverse mortgage for people under 65.

[A]

Yes, totally. Totally. So, but I would say, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to go average here too, George.

[B]

I don't like it. I've never heard someone do like a really wonderful thing with. Usually it's just something they impulsively didn't have time or patience or know how to save up for. Well, I'll just take a heloc.

[A]

Well, the crazy thing is, depending on how much you borrow on your home, the thing you're using the money for, especially if it's like an upgrade or something, it's out of style anyways. It doesn't add value to the time it like. Yeah, it ends.

[B]

So it just moves you backwards.

[A]

It does. It moves you backwards. So stay in, stay in the course, people. Stay the course.

[B]

Do not do it. You're just robbing yourself and moving backwards.

[A]

Yeah, but one way to propel yourself forward in a comfortable way, George, is when you have Cozy Earth on now.

[B]

That's an investment worth making. Absolutely no debt required.

[A]

It's an incredible company and everything that they sell you guys, the quality is outstanding. Everything from the bedding to the clothes, I mean all of it. It is, it's incredible.

[B]

It's incredible and it holds up. They have a 10 year warranty on their bedding just in case. But it's really incredible. I've been rocking the T shirt. I got the lake house clogs, the no show socks. My wife loves the PJ sets. I have not yet delved into the PJ world.

[A]

Okay, well, you got Whitney PJs. And I saw them because they came to the office.

[B]

I influenced you.

[A]

And I was like, those are so cute. And I went and bought some because they had the, they had the white with the blue pattern on it.

[B]

Yes. Cozy Earth knows more about fashion than I do, clearly.

[A]

But that's why you depend on them. That's why you need them in your life.

[B]

George got a pair for my mom from Mother's Day.

[A]

Yeah, I did that too.

[B]

Who's the favorite son now? But really, check it out. 40 off when you use the promo code Smart Money at checkout or go to cozyearth.com smart money. We'll drop a link in the description and you can thank us later for living your wealthiest life with Cozy Earth products.

[A]

All right, up next, George, social membership clubs. Oh, so you got like the Soho House country club screams wealthy golf clubs. Yeah, it's gotta be. That's a lot.

[B]

Yeah, I mean these memberships can range from a couple thousand to ten or twelve thousand annually. Some have like buy ins. Like the initial buy in that would blow your mind. Like six figure buy ins.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't understand it. I'm not at that place in Life to be interested in that.

[A]

But it's funny because I do think it depends on the circles you run with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The more common these things are. Right. So, like, I didn't grow up with country clubs. That wasn't like the circles my parents ran around in. And. And even today, like, I think we know some people have, like, golf memberships places, but there's a whole world where that's like, their societal norm.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are these kind of things. And so, yeah, it's.

[B]

And it is nice. I'm not here to knock it, but for people that can't afford it, it's a terrible idea. But most people that do this, it's a small part of their world.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, they're not worth $500,000 and spent 200 grand on a country club membership.

[A]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[B]

And so.

[A]

And usually it comes with, like, a minimal, like, fee every month that you like a food and drink beverage, like, you know, you have.

[B]

You gotta spend this much to stay in the club.

[A]

Yes. To stay in the club. Or you just end up paying it. Not even using the food and beverage line item.

[B]

You know, that stresses me out. But hey, if you love golf and fanciness, country clubs are for you.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I'm more of a putt putt guy.

[A]

Love a little putt putt.

[B]

I think we should start a country club for putt putt lovers. I'm sorry, but if pickleball can be a sport, why is putt putt not up there? Does it not require skill?

[A]

You know what?

[B]

Most of golf is short game.

[A]

I'm gonna say that's probably fair. Right? Thank you. I've never played golf.

[B]

Never. Your family?

[A]

Well, we went to golf. We went on a personalities retreat.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Were you on that one?

[B]

Oh, I was there.

[A]

Okay. So that's the only.

[B]

The guys went.

[A]

Yeah, but we went. No. Some of the girls went, oh, I.

[B]

Wasn'T on that one then.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was on one with just the guys.

[A]

And I swung a golf club for the first time ever on a golf course. I don't get it.

[B]

I'll tell you this. I went. So it was Dave Ramsey. Of course. He drags us out there. It's the only word for it. And it was very nice. He took us to the club by the lake house. Deloney's out there. Cargo shorts, graphic tee sneakers. If you know anything about golf, like, the number one rule is you got to dress.

[A]

Your attire is important to the game. Yes.

[B]

Ken Coleman. Looks fabulous.

[A]

Walked out of a magazine like he is.

[B]

Mostly 99% he is there for the attire. 100%, 1% for the Golf. So Deloney, Ken, and I go our own way because Dave's a serious golfer. We didn't want to distract him. Deloney almost breaks a window from the golf because he's just swatting. He's just happy going more out there.

[A]

He's a golf, right?

[B]

I wouldn't say he's a golfer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm hitting Aaron Dirt with guess whose clubs? Sharon Ramsey. Because I don't own golf clubs, as you can imagine. And Dave's like, just use Sharon's. You'll be fine. You're about the same height. First of all, rude. I'm at least 2 inches taller than Sharon. So then I go, well, Dave, let me clean these off at the end. They're covered in dirt. Cause that's all I hit. And Dave goes, nah, don't worry about it. He's then there in the truck just wiping off every club that I used. And I'm just so embarrassed.

[A]

What a servant. Leader.

[B]

And I have not played golf since.

[A]

Well, yeah, I'm kind of with you. It's a difficult.

[B]

There's a big learning curve.

[A]

It's going to take it up at like 52.

[B]

Okay. Was that when your mom took it up? When I'm 52, she was like a late.

[A]

No, she was late. No, she was like 60.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I guess she just looked 50.

[A]

Yeah. Sharon watches every episode, so well done, Sharon.

[B]

Shout out to Sharon and thank you for letting me use your clubs. I don't think you knew that happened, but you just found out. And it was a big blessing in my life.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That's fun. Okay. All right, moving on. Broke, average, or wealthy? Combining bank accounts.

[A]

Ah. Can I go wealthy, please?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like anyone can do this.

[A]

Oh, yeah, anyone can.

[B]

So in that regard, it's a trick question, because I think if you're broke, you should still come out.

[A]

I think it's the wealthy mindset of, like, we are one.

[B]

It's mindset.

[A]

Yeah. People that build wealth together win faster. And so it is a team sport, if you will. And when you're in it together, studies show you build wealth faster.

[B]

So think about it. If you're in the same canoe, rowing together, you're going to go faster than the guy who's in a separate canoe.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I always go to canoe analogies. That's how my brain works.

[A]

Love water sports, George. I know. And if I'm to be all sappy, I don't know, I think I'd be kind of sad if it was, like, all separate.

[B]

Like, Winston had his own little world.

[A]

He's like, I'm gonna go do this thing. And then I have to, like, figure out this thing. I don't know. Part of me is like, it just feels good to do things together when you're married. You know, you're in it together.

[B]

Well, I do think it's. It's more complicated to have a shared account, but then you have your own separate accounts, which is what a lot of people do.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So, like, well, our. Our income goes into this, but then we split it off into this, and then I have my money, he has his. Because here's the thing. What you guys don't hear is the Ramsey show calls we take when someone goes. He's upset because he found out that I have more in savings than him, even though he makes more than me. I'm like, this is a silly scenario. Why are we doing so? Since day one, my wife and I have had a shared joint checking account and a shared high yield savings account since the day we got married. And it's the simplest way to go.

[A]

Yes, totally.

[B]

But we get hate for this so much.

[A]

It's our number one place of, like. Everyone hates this idea because men go.

[B]

Well, she's gonna take you to the cleaners. I'm like, do you not know how divorce works?

[A]

You don't just. Women are like, don't depend on a man ever fully, you know? Yes.

[B]

I'm like, well, if that's the case, then don't marry that person. If there's deep trust issues. So a separate accounts would just hide the problems, which works for a season.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The joint account will just expose the problems early on, and you can actually deal with it then.

[A]

Yeah. And work through it. Yeah. And if something major happens in life, if there's, like, a massive shift in the marriage, you know, something comes out and you're not trusting your spouse anymore, then get. Yes. You need your own account then. Right. Like that there is a reality good reason for it. Yeah. And we've told people that on the show. People call in and we're like, you.

[B]

Have to protect yourself if there's a gambling addiction. Yes. Separate accounts while you work through this.

[A]

That's right. That's right. So I like it.

[B]

You just got me riled up on that. But yeah, I think regardless of where you find yourself broke, average, or wealthy, combining bank accounts, if you're in a healthy relationship.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is a great move.

[A]

I love it. All right, up next, day trading, slash investing to cash flow. Big purchases, broke, average or wealthy.

[B]

Oh, boy. I mean, day trading for sure leans broke to average. Because here's the thing. Day traders, they're really like, smart people. If you looked at their iq, their intelligence, like, you have to know a lot just to be able to even.

[A]

Attempt this, get into that. Yeah.

[B]

But I recently took a call on the Ramsey show of a guy who made a bunch of money after leveraging some debt and then was $100,000 in debt just due to day trading.

[A]

Shoot.

[B]

And his relationship was ending because of it. He was in a terrible place, mentally, emotionally, financially, because of it.

[A]

You know, I just had a thought. Call it the Holy Spirit, whatever you want to say. Some of this. We're just chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing the next dollar, just trying to get wealth. There's a spirit of greed there.

[B]

Can I hit you with a verse to tie that in?

[A]

I was going to throw out Judas, but, yes. I just read a thing about how Judas was, like, the treasurer of the disciples. Did you know this?

[B]

I did not know that.

[A]

He, like, yes, took. And so there's like, all.

[B]

Which makes sense. He would be the guy to embezzle.

[A]

So, yeah, I'm not kidding. There's a. There was. There's like. I read this whole commentary about it, and I was like, that is so fascinating. I never knew that. Whether it's true or not. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying, like, that spirit of greed, what it will lead you to, is so dangerous. It really is.

[B]

Well, think about it. If you make money, you're gonna go, well, I can do that again. And if you lose money, you go, I gotta keep playing until I get back up.

[A]

Yeah, the money thing. And we're a money show, right? We help people with their money.

[B]

So Smart Money Happy hour.

[A]

Smart Money Happy hour. So it's not that we're against it. In fact, we are about building wealth to change your family tree, but we are very much on the slow train. Like, invest consistently. Be wise. Like, you know, I mean, it's.

[B]

We want to make sure anyone can do it.

[A]

It's not for a money grab, though. And I feel like a lot of this situation, it's a money grab. And let me tell you, money can be a blessing, and we say it all the time, but it also can be a curse. Like, it can be the thing that takes you out in life if that's all you're chasing. Like, I think there's a lot of, like, caution around it so when I hear that, it's like, how can I make the most amount of money the fastest? And if that is like, your number one thing in life, that's not gonna suit you. Well, in life, it's just not like it's gonna get you in a lot of trouble. So have some peace. Financial peace, huh? One of our taglines around this subject. And this kind of stuff doesn't create peace. It fuels the greed. And I don't like it, George. Hey, what's your verse?

[B]

I'll hit you with my verse. I'm not like a verse.

[A]

Is it a Proverbs?

[B]

Let me just put it out there. I'm not a guy who's, like, memorized all the verses, but this is one that's really stuck with me. It is Proverbs.

[A]

Okay. I believe it.

[B]

Cause I like this.

[A]

Well, I'm reading through proverbs right now because our church is doing like a two year read through the Bible plan. There is so much money stuff, they're.

[B]

Just dropping little bombs in there. It's amazing. Okay, here it is. Proverbs 14:11. Don't quote me on that. But I think it's right. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. And that's been a great source of encouragement to me.

[A]

That's so good.

[B]

Because I'm going slow and low like a crock pot while culture and Instagram says, hey, microwave it, bro. You can do it in 10 seconds.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Why wait six hours, y'?

[A]

All?

[B]

So there it is. And in my book, I talk about the three stooges of wealth, and it's fear, greed, and pride.

[A]

I believe it.

[B]

Nothing else will trip you up more when it comes to building wealth and fear, greed and pride. And I think day trading, all of those three can play into it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or anything. That's a get rich quick scheme.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which, listen, find another hobby. If day trading you think is like. Well, I'm just passionate about. No, you just want to make money quick.

[A]

I know. Yeah. And there's a spirit in that, y'. All. Check yourself. Check yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

So what do you do instead, Rachel?

[A]

Instead, I use my money for delete me subscriptions.

[B]

That's way less risky. In fact, it helps protect you from the risks that are out there.

[A]

100%. Yep. So it ends up being less than $9 a month. And delete me goes in and removes your data from online data broker websites. Because these data brokers collect your data. And this is your name, your phone number, your Address your family's names, your family's names. It's wild with all they have, you guys. And then sell your data and make money because they sell it to other companies. And those other companies take all your information. They. And they put it out there into the world with emails and other companies. And you are a major risk for scams, spam, harassment, harassment, phishing, even pH. Phishing. So it's not good.

[B]

Bad news bears.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if you sign up for Delete me, here's what you get. You'll get a custom report every few months showing you where they removed your data, how much time they've saved you. So far, they've removed me from over 240 data broker sites. Save me 94 hours. So you can get 20% off their annual plans by going to join delete me.com. smart money. Or click the link in the description.

[A]

Amazing. All right, next, George. Giving money away or being generous? Ooh, I love that.

[B]

I'm going to say this is a wealthy trait. You can do this in any stage. Broke, average or wealthy. But I think the people who have the heart plus the means to do it lean wealthy.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

We call them philanthropists. There's a fancy word for it.

[A]

Yeah. You know, George, I may go all three.

[B]

There's broke people who are very generous.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

There's average people who are very generous.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So this goes all three for me.

[B]

There's wealthy people who are very stingy. So we can call that out too.

[A]

100% for sure.

[B]

It's not like just because you have money means you will give. It's a habit that you build from broke to wealthy.

[A]

Yes, that's right. Yep. But be doing it regardless of which category you are in. If you are broke, if you are average or wealthy, be generous. But it does create, I don't know, a level of joy in life and peace. I don't know. There's something about it when you live life with an open hand.

[B]

Yeah. Can I quote Rachel Cruz?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Give a little until you can give a lot.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

That haunts me. That quote I'll wear the middle of the night. I'm like, give a little till you give a lot. Oh, my gosh. Love your life, not theirs. Know yourself, know your money. Smart money, smart kids. Oh, so good. But that is. That is a true statement. And when we talked about fear, greed and pride just a moment ago, I think giving is the antidote to most things that ail us in life because it's in Our control, we can make impact. It makes it not about us.

[A]

And you're kind of releasing control in a way when you're given.

[B]

Yeah, very freeing.

[A]

I think it's great. Beautiful.

[B]

All right, next up, broke average or wealthy habit? Refinancing the house.

[A]

Ooh, tricky, tricky. If you're refinancing, I'm going to say this is like an average to wealthy decision.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. Yeah. If the interest rate drops for long enough, you're like, oh, we're going to refinance or you're in a bad mortgage, you want to refinance like a better.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. If you're not in like a fixed.

[A]

Rate mortgage, I guess, and depending on which way the financing is going to, but hopefully if it's going to the better side.

[B]

Yeah. Well, back, you know, during the, the pandemic era, we saw those like 2 and 3% rates. We have not returned to those as of this recording. We're still sitting in the six and sevens. And so if rates do come back down and you do have a 7 and rates go down to a 5, you can do the math pretty easily and figure out your kind of break even point to go. All right, within a year we're going to recoup the cost for this refinance and pay off our mortgage earlier. Especially if you're going from a 30 year to a 15 year fixed rate mortgage, that can be a great deal. But yeah, I think this does. It kind of depends on where you're at. It's not like all wealthy people do this, but I do think it's smart to look at your options and to shorten your timeline anytime you can.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because that's a forced savings plan. A lot of people think, well, if I get a 30, I'll just pay it off like a 15. I haven't seen any data that proves that's actually happening. But when you get a 15, worst case, it's paid off in 15 years.

[A]

Yeah. It forces you into it. That's great.

[B]

So I like that.

[A]

All right, next subject is budgeting.

[B]

Is this. This one's a trick question because everyone should be budgeting. Who is actually budgeting. I think it would have to lean average to wealthy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because by definition, if you are totally broke consistently.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And doing a budget, you're doing it wrong. Because the purpose of a budget is to live on less than you make.

[A]

And I'm going to say we've been doing these every dollar webinars more and more. And when you're talking to people and it's groups, anywhere from three to 900 people that are in these. We do multiple a week. And most people that are in there for this one, like, they're like, majority of the audience is living paycheck to paycheck. And most of them have been living that way their whole adult life. Because we'll ask them like these questions.

[B]

Little polls they can take.

[A]

Yeah. And so it's just a good baseline to kind of see. And so I do think budgeting helps you go from broke to average and then eventually average to wealthy. Because to get out of that paycheck to paycheck cycle, unless you have this crazy jump in income and you're really disciplined, budgeting really is the thing that helps control that income coming in to find margin, to make moves because you actually know where your income's going so well.

[B]

And I found most people who have an aversion to budgeting, they either go, well, budgeting is for broke people, or they go, well, budgeting is for like excel loving nerds who have money.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I found that I was broke until I started doing a budget. And so once I downloaded every dollar, it changed the game because it just held up a mirror to what was happening in my life and it showed me a plan out. And so if you guys want to check it out, we'll drop a link in the description or you can go to everydollar.com and start your budget for free today. Makes it super easy to get control of your money.

[A]

Yeah, it's great. And what else is really easy is setting up a Fair Winds account that.

[B]

Comes with a budget. You gotta have a bank account for money to come in to budget with.

[A]

So Fairwinds is a credit union, it's not a bank. And if you're working the baby steps, you want your financial institution that you're using to be on your side. And there's a lot of big banks out there, you guys, that just aren't like they are advertising debt out the wazoo, you know, pushing every, all of this stuff on you. And Fair Winds is such an incredible credit union because it's run by the people, which we love. And the setup even to set up an account, George, is so easy. Winston and I did it. I think I even did it on my phone. I would say, like, it was just like, it was so simple.

[B]

You have to walk in anywhere. You just pull up the website on your phone and knock it out.

[A]

Yes. And they send you the debit cards and it's great. And you can access a lot of ATMs around the country that they have, like, business with, and it's fantastic. So make sure to check out Fairwinds.

[B]

Yeah, it's cool. Because, you know, they've been fans of us and now we're fans of them. They want to help Ramsey fans win with money. And so they've set up a smart checking and savings bundle designed specifically for our fans. And it's simple, it's practical. Lines up with the baby steps. So get started today. Head to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your account or click the link in the description.

[A]

All right, next one. Chasing the trend cycle.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

So this could be like fashion, luxury brands.

[B]

What's in outdoor gear?

[A]

Outdoor gear.

[B]

It's all Rachel.

[A]

Oh. Even ways of like, making money. The trendy cycle. Okay.

[B]

It could be a coffee shop that just launched in town. There's one that just launched in Nashville that is very. Do I want to go. Yes.

[A]

So I'm going to say the like, die hard of this is average.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like if you are on the trend cycle all the time, I'm going to go average because I do think you can get to a place where you're like exhausted by the change of everything. You're like, I'm fine, I'm content. I'm good.

[B]

Well, you find like the truly wealthy people, they're in to the sort of quiet luxury. They're not as concerned with the flashier brands, the flashier trends.

[A]

They're great with like a pair of loafers, jeans, and a cardigan that could cost a lot.

[B]

Still could be cashmere.

[A]

But it may not like, look on trend necessarily. But see, I like it. You know, that's where I fall into. This is my trap.

[B]

I do you know what I say, if you follow the trends, you fall for the traps. And Rachel. Consistently, but intentionally.

[A]

But I do well and I buy inexpensive trendy things that if they go out next year, I'm fine.

[B]

So there's a trend, but you're.

[A]

It's like a pair of $80 jeans versus $300 jeans or something, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Or Amazon.

[B]

I wanted you to tell us what the trends currently are, cuz I don't know.

[A]

Okay, there is a trend and I just don't like it. Or the. Are the mesh shoes. Sorry, no offense. If anyone has the mesh shoes, I don't like them, but they're out there. Who's this for?

[B]

Like the.

[A]

This is a target find. So these like strappy sandals are kind of in. I'm going to say the barrel, you're.

[B]

Talking about, like, medieval mesh.

[A]

The mesh.

[B]

What kind of mesh are we talking like.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, oh, look, look, look, look. She's got it up for you. So they're. Yeah, but they're like see through shoes. And you can see your toes. It feels like you've got to be like, if you want to show, like, the feet, just show it. I'm making sure no one has mesh shoes on right now. Just show it. Don't be like, I'm kind of hiding it, but then I'm not under this mesh material.

[B]

I agree. Don't go halfsies. Like, it's.

[A]

It's kind of like spider webby or something. Part of me is like, I don't know. I don't like it.

[B]

There's a lot of trend. I mean.

[A]

Yeah, the barrel jeans are in now where it used to be. These, like, these were last season, these jeans, but they're just. They're like the wide leg, and now it's like the barrel leg, which there.

[B]

Will be comments on this episode saying, rachel, tell us where you got your jeans and your top.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Never is it. Where'd you get that tiny denim jacket?

[A]

George Abercrombie Target shoes. So, like, that's my thing is I'm like, I will go buy. Yeah. Stuff like that. But if the next season comes around, I'm like, you know what? I bought it for the. I bought it for the moment.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It wasn't like an investment kind of thing. So I don't know.

[B]

My goal is to never be on trend, and that way I'll never go out of style. You know what I mean? It's just an easier life.

[A]

I think that's fair.

[B]

I go for timeless out of style.

[A]

That's a wealthy mindset.

[B]

But even trends like, you know, sports betting can be a trend that people chase of. The latest app people are downloading. Where are people spending their money? And so I don't like. I don't like any of it because I find that it tends to cause you to stay broke.

[A]

Yes, that's fair.

[B]

There's nothing wrong with them inherently. But the marketing is so good, and you're so tempted and you want to keep up with the Joneses that it costs.

[A]

Yeah. So outside of fashion trends, financial trends, I stay away from. I've literally been doing the same thing with my money for, like, 15 years.

[B]

Just your 401k.

[A]

I mean. Yeah, actually, we've done some real estate, so that's.

[B]

Yes, that's pretty trendy. You've done some flips.

[A]

I know.

[B]

With cash.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Way to do it, Winston. Still waiting on the TV show. Winston.

[A]

Man. It would be good sledgehammering.

[B]

I think that's what mostly women want to see is just Winston sledgehammering.

[A]

Just working the real estate.

[B]

Why can't you be like him?

[A]

Look at it.

[B]

A thousand reasons. Whitney.

[A]

Oh, George. All right, last but certainly not least, financial education.

[B]

This was a trick question. This one's for everyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's no one. This is not for.

[A]

No.

[B]

How do you like that For a double negative.

[A]

But I think people that study it and want to be intentional with it. Great mindset.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's going to lead to.

[B]

And that's kind of the space we are in is financial education now. We sneak it because we, like. We're really cool and we have drinks and we make it real fun and conversational. But the goal here is to kind of make financial education great again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just make it mainstream to where it's normal to want to tune into your favorite personal finance YouTubers like George and Rachel.

[A]

Yeah. And that. Great.

[B]

And to learn about it.

[A]

But for real, like. Yeah. And the purpose of all of it, again, is to have peace in this area of your life, to be able to do amazing things for your family, to do amazing things for other people and for money. Not to be this paralyzing issue in your life like it is for so many people. And that's what we do not want for you. So we. The goal is not just to become rich, rich, rich, rich, rich. That's not why we're doing this. No. It is for you to get control of this area of your life, to sleep good at night where this doesn't keep you up and stress you out. And you have the ability to do.

[B]

Fun things, live your dreams.

[A]

Yeah. If you want to travel, start a business. And again, the generosity piece is big in this is to be a generous person through it all and to help a lot of people. Like, it's incredible what we can do. So. Yeah. That's. I think it's. I think it's a great thing.

[B]

I like to say that I want to talk about money so we can stop talking about money. That's not the goal.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

But we have to talk about it. So you get control of it so that you can focus on everything else that's important in your life.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you're talking to a guy who loves to nerd out.

[A]

Yeah. And like anything else, if we get so obsessed with it, even if you're doing well, then you end up becoming so obsessed with the topic, and you end up, like, not doing anything great with the money that you've earned and made, and you end up hoarding it. And that's not what we want. It's like. It's like people that are really into health, and they're like, oh, my.

[B]

It's, like, paralyzing in a way.

[A]

Yeah. They, like, literally can't enjoy themselves ever.

[B]

Because nobody else can enjoy them because they're so obsessed. Like, I don't hang out with my friends, like, hey, guys, can we talk about this latest mutual fund?

[A]

That's right. So it is. I'm like. It's for the benefits of, to your point, getting control of it. So it's not a thing in your life. So don't make it a thing once it's not a thing.

[B]

Well said. Tweet that.

[A]

Get it.

[B]

This is good.

[A]

Makes sense to me, George.

[B]

This is good. What's the takeaways today?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Broke, average, wealthy.

[A]

I think that there are common themes that each group of people can tend to fall for or do. So let's all lean towards the wealthier mindset. Not again. Just so you have a bunch of money, but so that money doesn't have to be an issue and you can do great things with it. That's what I'd say.

[B]

I would say wealthy people are earning interest, broke people are paying it, and average people are trying to keep up and just keep up with the status quo. It's not going to get you anywhere. So leaning toward that wealthy mindset means living on less than you make, investing the surplus, not owing people money, and it's a better life. I don't care who you are, where you're from, what you did, as long as you love me. That's my final takeaway.

[A]

Good time. All right, before we get to guilty as charged, let's share the details on our drinks. And what do we rate them?

[B]

This is a cucumber lime mock cocktail. As you can see, mine is still largely full of liquid. Let me get a second opinion. Okay, I'll go two out of ten.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I think that's fair. Here's the thing. If I was at a spa.

[A]

That's what I just thought this was a spa drink.

[B]

This is a spa drink.

[A]

I'm going seven out of 10. I'm going seven out of ten.

[B]

Would I order this at a restaurant and take it back? Absolutely. But if I was at a spa and it was served for free after my $150 massage. I would gladly be like, mmm. So refreshing. It is very hydrating. And I love cucumber. I would want more lime in this if it's a cucumber lime mocktail. And I think it needs some fizz. So add some lacroix BlackBerry cucumber to this, and you might have a real winner. Here's what's in it. Cucumber, lime, mint leaves, maple syrup, salt in carbonated mineral water. I'm not tasting the carbonation. Did that. It's in there.

[A]

Oh, we just waited. You waited too long to drink it. It fizzled out.

[B]

Okay, maybe. But here's the good news. We need some silver lining. It's only 98 cents per glass. I'm not sure water is that cheap. I don't know how this turned out to be 98 cents, but I do think it is refreshing.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I'm willing to concede. 2.5 out of 10.

[A]

Okay, he's going up.

[B]

Final rating.

[A]

It's. It's growing on them.

[B]

Get the recipe in the show notes. Make it for your kids. You might sneak a vegetable in there.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

They like vegetable water.

[A]

Oh. All right. Now it's time for guilty as charged. And this is where we ask each other a guilty charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take a sip of our spa water. All right, question. Are there any Internet rabbit trails? You're guilty for falling for.

[B]

Have you lived if you haven't gone down an Internet rabbit trail?

[A]

It's one of the joys of humanity, searching.

[B]

Okay, what's your latest one? I think is the real question.

[A]

My latest one. Church history.

[B]

Do tell, pray tell. I might, I think, is the better word there.

[A]

I have. I've been down, you know, I don't know. I just always knew that, like, there were the apostles and then Martin Luther. That was in my time frame of Christianity.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Had no clue what was in between all of that. Ecumenical councils. You got the great schism in 1054 from the Catholic Church split. The first big split. You go back all the way to see what happens. And how did church become what it did.

[B]

What's your big takeaway so far? Like, who was the original church in your mind?

[A]

Oh, this is gonna stir the pot. This will make people mad.

[B]

Poke the bear.

[A]

Here's where. Here as I'm an innocent little Protestant over here. Okay. Just doing my research. It does keep going back to the Orthodox Church.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Those that are Catholic will not like that. So. I love y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Can you Explain. We're all under the Nicene Creed.

[B]

Like, where does Orthodox fall? In between, like, Catholicism and the Protestants. Where does Orthodox fall?

[A]

Oh, God. I'm not an expert, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

I'm gonna go in the middle, I would say, because the Orthodox is not Catholic. No.

[B]

But it's not Protestant.

[A]

No.

[B]

So it's just floating in the middle somewhere. It's more liturgical, that fair, for sure.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

A little more tradition, a little more pomp and circumstance.

[A]

So a lot of, like. Mostly like. I. Yeah, yeah. It's. It. It is.

[B]

There's more robes and hats.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes. I mean, but they. They would claim as Catholics. Would. That they are the original Church.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So there's like, there was a big split that happened in 1054, the first split ever of Church. And then off the. And then the Catholics, which again, depending on who you are, which way you would take my hands. But go with me. You got Catholics that split from the Orthodox. Okay. And then out of Catholicism is where Protestants split. So then over here. But I don't know. It is all about the same. It is so fascinating and I love it. I love researching that. Or the Denver Airport.

[B]

Those are your two.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

Denver Airport.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

Pizzagate.

[B]

Here's my question. Have you researched. I grew up Arabic Baptist. I imagine that was invented in 1962. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in the Baptist realm over here.

[B]

So, like, when was that invented? And when did the Arabics get a hold of that?

[A]

That's a good question.

[B]

I don't know, because the Middle east is largely Muslim, but there's like 5% that are Christians.

[A]

Yeah. So that's what's interesting is when you look at the split, you have a.

[B]

Lot of Orthodox in that world.

[A]

Yeah. Yes, I was going to say. So really, the. Out of the five original churches, Alexandria, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Rome, Rome was the only one that went west. All the others stayed east.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So Rome took the Western part of Christianity, which is largely Catholic. So when you go.

[B]

Which then became America, saying all of.

[A]

This, that I am not an expert.

[B]

So please, please roast her in the comment section. If you are a historian or a theologian or Bible.

[A]

Seriously, this is very. This is like chatgpt rabbit hole stuff. But, yeah, you go over. You go over to Western Europe and it's. It's cathedrals, it is very Catholic. But then you go Eastern and very Orthodox, like in the map when you see it.

[B]

That's helpful.

[A]

It's just the Truth. I mean, I think that's what happened.

[B]

There's worse things to delve into.

[A]

So to take Orthodox over here to float it to little Rachel in Nashville, Tennessee, in 2025. Took a jump. But I like it. It's interesting. It is fascinating.

[B]

Have you been to a Coptic Orthodox church?

[A]

Hey, no. So Coptics, they came out of. So they're in Egypt. They're mostly Egyptian. And they split, I think, after the second Ecumenical Council because they were talking through, like, the theology of the Trinity. Very fascinating. Yeah. I mean, it gets real nerdy real fast.

[B]

Really trying to follow. My brain hurts.

[A]

It's so interesting. But here's what's crazy, too, George. We can stop about this. But a lot of that was. A lot of them were meeting to figure out theology before the canon of the New Testament was even created.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So they're very. I mean, and it's very old time. And it's pretty wild when you go back and read this stuff, because it's a lot over the branch of Christianity, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, of what we all still really, truly believe from, like, the Trinity standpoint and all of that. Like, it's really crazy. But they did all of that. They're Constantine. Wow. Cheers, Constantine.

[B]

Cheers to Constantine. He doesn't get a lot of cheers these days.

[A]

Drop a comment in the section if you are Catholic or Orthodox. I would love to.

[B]

I think everyone's gone at this point. I think it's just us. Just us and the crew.

[A]

I think it's all. I think it's fine. Okay.

[B]

What's your rabbit hole Washer dryers have been my latest rabbit hole. Specifically top load versus front load. Why did we make the switch as a society?

[A]

Do you know that I think top load is better?

[B]

Well, technically, because agitator, but it uses more water.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So it's more efficient to go front load. But front load has the issue of mold because of how the water sits.

[A]

Oh, no way. Okay.

[B]

So now there's a GE profile that has an odor control, and it actually has a drying cycle that will dry out the water sitting inside of it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But they do say if you're a front loader, you got to keep it open to let it air out.

[A]

To let it air out. I've learned that.

[B]

But we've been a top load family. We're about to make the switch, and I'm nervous.

[A]

Okay. Why are you switching, though?

[B]

Why do you want to switch the efficiency? A lot of the modern ones just happen to be front load. They look nicer. I almost got the pedestals with it so that it raises the entire thing.

[A]

Yes. And then you have a drawer underneath. We did that.

[B]

I asked Whitney. She said, I'd rather be able to fold on top. So we're getting like a platform on top to fold.

[A]

Yep. Fair.

[B]

But I was like, we're gonna break your back doing that. But hey, it's your funeral, you know, so that's been my journey spiritually is washer dryers while Rachel has been, I guess, trying to convert those.

[A]

No, I'm not converting anyone.

[B]

Maybe not of the faith.

[A]

It's just good to not have the faith. It's good to know where we've come from.

[B]

There's at least one atheist listening who's going, I'm intrigued.

[A]

That's fair.

[B]

Buy my washer dryer conversation.

[A]

Okay, so good. Well, if you have a great guilty as charged question, let us know your.

[B]

Rabbit trails in the comments. Yeah, we're not the only ones.

[A]

If you enjoyed this episode about being intentional with your money decisions, you're going to love the episode habits that are wasting your time and money. You can click the link down below to check it out because it is a great episode. And also if you don't want to miss a future episode, make sure to subscribe. So we will see you next Thursday on an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.