Financial Gaslighting (It’s More Common Than You Think!)

Summary

Smart Money Happy Hour Podcast Summary

Episode: Financial Gaslighting (It’s More Common Than You Think!)
Hosts: Rachel Cruze & George Kamel
Air Date: May 21, 2026
Network: Ramsey Network

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Overview

This lively episode dives into the concept of “financial gaslighting”—where manipulation and deceit invade conversations about money. With their trademark humor, pop culture references, and real-world examples, Rachel and George discuss gaslighting’s roots, how it plays out in families and finances, and practical ways to spot and stop it. The show blends personal anecdotes, role-play scenarios, and actionable advice, aiming to help listeners identify financial gaslighting (from others or themselves) and pursue healthier financial relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Gaslighting

• Gaslighting: Manipulating someone into doubting their own sanity, memory, or reasoning—making victims feel “crazy” for noticing strange behavior.
• Origins of the term ([03:23]):
  • George quizzes Rachel about the word’s roots. Rachel looks it up: The term comes from the play Gaslight by Patrick Hamilton (1938), later adapted into films. In the story, a husband manipulates his wife by secretly dimming the gas lights, then denying any changes, causing her to doubt her perceptions.
  • Quote:
    • Rachel: “She notices the lights flickering and dimming, but when she asks about it, he insists that nothing has changed and that she must be imagining it. What? History, George.” [03:28]

2. Pop Culture Gaslighters

• The hosts humorously identify iconic examples:
  • “OG gaslighters” in movies: Mother Gothel in Tangled, Jafar in Aladdin, even biblical references—e.g., the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.
  • Quote:
    • George: “Wasn’t Satan the original gaslighter?” [05:47]
  • Rachel: “If you watch that whole movie—Tangled—it is the psychological crazy.” [05:41]

3. Personal Tolerance & Book Club Chat

• Rachel reveals a taste for true crime and dark fiction as training for dealing with toxic communication, whereas her friends have a lower threshold for “crazy stories.”
• An extended aside on communicating with celebrities via direct messages, connected to feeling “seen but not heard.”
• Memorable Moment:
  • Rachel: “Handling gaslighting and toxicity—some people can’t do it. I can. So I don’t know what that says about me.” [09:52]

4. Real-Life Financial Gaslighting

• Example from the Ramsey Show: Woman’s husband secretly purchases cars and takes solo vacations, dismissing her concerns as “crazy” ([11:29]):
  • Rachel: “He goes on vacations and doesn’t tell me… he’s on a vacation right now and doesn’t invite me.”
  • George: “Amy…I think he’s cheating on you.”
• The hosts theorize about “detective” skills, using social media to uncover the truth.

5. Role-Playing Financial Gaslighting Scenarios ([15:54] and following)

• Rachel and George reenact three common situations:
  1. Landlord vs. Tenant: Landlord invents damages to withhold security deposit—doubts tenant’s recollection and invokes the contract.
     • Rachel: “I need the before and after pictures because I may get with my attorney.” [17:50]
     • George: “That contract is ironclad. I wish you the best.” [18:25]
  2. Friend Lender vs. Borrower: A friend delays paying back a loan, shifting blame and gaslighting about expectations.
     • George: “You never gave me an actual timeline of when I needed to pay it back.” [22:09]
     • Rachel: “Do I put you on a payment plan? Five dollars?” [22:37]
     • George: “I’m not comfortable on payment plans.” [22:38]
  3. Adult Child vs. Aging Parent: Grown child tries to discuss care plans with parent, who brushes off concerns, hiding the need for help.
     • Rachel (as Mom): “I’m 80. I do what I want… Don’t you worry about me.” [28:17, 30:02]

Main Takeaways:

• Manipulation shows up at every life stage: rentals, friendships, and especially in family care and end-of-life finances.
• Self-advocacy (“take photos!”) and boundaries are crucial.

6. Advice for Lending and Family Finances

• When friends or family need money, give instead of lend—no strings, no resentment.
  • Rachel: “It just feels so much better where you’re like, I have no expectations… so never lend it.” [25:55]
• With aging parents: Set boundaries when family assumes financial support, especially if they’ve mismanaged their money.

7. Debunking Common Self-Gaslighting Money Lies ([34:12])

A lightening round where Rachel and George take on the false beliefs we tell ourselves:

• “You deserve it. Just charge it on a credit card.” ([34:28])
• “It’s only a $300 payment—everyone has car loans.” ([35:05])
• “Renting is throwing your money away.” ([35:51])
• “Investing is only for rich people.” ([37:40])
• “You have to have credit cards to be an adult.” ([39:01])
• “You can’t save on this income.” ([40:30])
• “Student loans are good debt.” ([42:15])

Their key message: Recognize when you’re the one gaslighting yourself out of making healthy financial decisions.

8. Notable Quotes & Moments

• Rachel: “We can turn down the guilt and shame lever if we just ramp up the justification lever.” [34:44]
• George: “Nobody gaslights you more than the credit card companies.” [39:07]
• Rachel: “If you spend with cash or a debit card, you are going to spend less. Period.” [39:23]
• George: “The fallacy here is that your income is immovable.” [41:32]
• Rachel: “A diploma does not guarantee you're going to be successful.” [42:34]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:26 | Official definition and origins of "gaslighting" | | 03:23 | Explanation of the play/movie “Gaslight” and how it informs the term | | 05:34 | Pop culture and biblical gaslighters | | 11:29 | Real-life financial gaslighting—husband hiding financial info | | 15:54 | Roleplay: Landlord vs. Tenant | | 20:27 | Roleplay: Friend lender vs. borrower on overdue debt | | 27:05 | Roleplay: Adult child vs. aging parent | | 34:12 | Debunking self-gaslighting money lies | | 39:01 | The truth about credit cards and adulthood | | 41:31 | Addressing income limitations and saving | | 42:15 | “Student loans are good debt” myth discussion | | 44:51 | Details and cost of the Mango Mojito mocktail | | 46:10 | “Guilty as Charged” segment: Splurges before kids |

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Podcast Tone & Style

The conversation is friendly, witty, and packs practical insight amid banter and joking. Both hosts draw from personal experience and maintain a non-judgmental, approachable vibe. Their style is to “call out” manipulative behaviors—whether from others or ourselves—while encouraging accountability, humor, and grace.

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Summary Table of Main Financial Gaslighting Examples

| Example Scenario | Form of Gaslighting | Key Advice | |-------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------| | Landlord/Tenant dispute | Fabricated costs, ambiguous accusations | Document everything, know your contract | | Friend lending money | Shifting blame & moving goalposts | Gift, don’t loan; set clear boundaries | | Aging parents & elder care | Refusing to discuss finances, denying issues | Be proactive, set boundaries, get help early | | Self-talk money myths | Justifying poor behavior, minimizing risk | Recognize patterns, seek accountability | | Credit card culture | Manipulative marketing, “you deserve it” | Live on debit/cash, resist pressure | | Student loans | Framing debt as “good” and risk-free | Evaluate true ROI before borrowing |

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Memorable Moments & Listener Takeaways

• Rachel and George riff on “detective” skills for tracking down the truth—often via social media.
• They roleplay challenging but very real situations, illustrating how gaslighting unfolds and offering a script for holding boundaries.
• Rapid-fire myth busting shows how easy it is to believe financial “lies”—and how to break free.
• Fun drink review of a Mango Mojito mocktail ([44:51–46:10]) wraps up the episode with a “cheers.”

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Notable Quotes With Timestamps

• On pop culture references:
  • George: “Wasn’t Satan the original gaslighter?” [05:47]
• On self-deception:
  • Rachel: “We can turn down the guilt and shame lever if we just ramp up the justification lever.” [34:44]
• On credit cards:
  • George: “Nobody gaslights you more than the credit card companies.” [39:07]
  • Rachel: “If you spend with cash or a debit card, you are going to spend less. Period.” [39:23]
• On setting boundaries:
  • Rachel: “It just feels so much better where you’re like, I have no expectations… so never lend it.” [25:55]

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Listener Resources Mentioned

• Investing Guide (free download from Ramsey website) [38:13]
• Fairwinds Credit Union info [33:05]
• “Delete Me” data privacy service [43:50]
• Drink recipe for Mango Mojito mocktail [45:03]

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves up practical wisdom with signature Ramsey flair—encouraging listeners to identify manipulative tactics in their financial lives and replace them with honest, boundary-driven communication. Rachel and George strike a balance between entertaining storytelling and serious financial advice, leaving listeners empowered to face financial gaslighting head-on—with a laugh and, maybe, a mocktail.

Cheers!

Transcript

[A]

All right, guys, queue up Toxic by Britney Spears, because today we're talking about gaslighting and toxic communication strategies that can sabotage your money. Don't gaslight yourself thinking it's not going to happen to me, Rachel, that's crazy.

[B]

That's right. That's a gaslighting. That's that big of a deal.

[A]

I am your child. I'm your son.

[B]

You're in your 50s, then. I'm in my 80s, Winston. Hey, guys, I'm Rachel Cruz.

[A]

I'm George Camel, and this is Smart Money Happy Hour.

[B]

Cheers, George.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

[A]

I hope they're talking about Toxic by Britney Spears. I don't think it's talked about enough.

[B]

I think we should talk about it more.

[A]

She has not responded to my dm. If you've been following along in the saga. Ghosted. Ghosted.

[B]

I was. I was worried about that.

[A]

I think she's gaslighting me.

[B]

Come on, Britney, stop that.

[A]

Well, let's talk about what we're sipping on as a. As a salve to my soul right now as I grieve the lack of dm. We are sipping on a mango mojito mocktail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was a nod from Rachel. That was a. I think you know what her rating is already. We're going to give you the rating at the end of the episode. Don't miss that. And we're going to reveal the cost per glass and the ingredients at the end of. Of the episode. So stick around.

[B]

I think it's. I think it's fine. I don't know why you're trying to gaslight me first.

[A]

No, it's not. You know what? I am.

[B]

No. Gaslighting, a term that is used by the. By everyone now. It feels like. Yeah, it's become popular. So the official definition of this is the practice of psychologically manipulating someone into questioning their own sanity, memory, or powers of reason.

[A]

Wow, that's good.

[B]

When you are the one that starts to feel crazy and you're like, am I. Am I crazy? Or are they, like, gaslighting?

[A]

Yeah. And I don't know if this is true, but I think a lot of narcissists use this. They're gaslighters because they can never have ownership or be wrong. So they sort of deflect it.

[B]

Okay. Do you know what I think of what comes to my head when I hear gaslighter hit me? I think of, like, A. Like a little lighter. The gas, the flame.

[A]

Okay, Where.

[B]

What. What is gas? Like, what is.

[A]

What is gas?

[B]

Are you asking me what gas is Gas? Lighter. Like, I understand the psychological term.

[A]

Where did the term come from?

[B]

How did they come up? Yes. Is it like a lighter? It switches on and off quicker. You don't even mean like there should be like.

[A]

You know, you would think that would have been included in this outline for today's episode. I do wonder where it came from.

[B]

Where did it come from?

[A]

No one will ever know. We can't search it well.

[B]

We can't. What are you talking about? We have the world at our fingers. How would you even look that up?

[A]

You go to a library, pull up an encyclopedia.

[B]

It's called ChatGPT, George.

[A]

Oh, you're still using ChatGPT?

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

Embarrassing. We've moved on.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, you're behind the trend on this show.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

Nobody's using that anymore.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

Honestly. You know what Boomers are still using?

[B]

You're gaslighting me. You are gaslighting me.

[A]

No, but I have moved on to Claude. Isn't Winston a Gemini guy?

[B]

Winston's Gemini.

[A]

Gemini.

[B]

I like my ChatGPT.

[A]

I like people who use Gemini because I feel like they're not falling for the trend.

[B]

Where did the term gaslighting come from? Did it come from a word picture or maybe a lighter?

[A]

You can't lead it.

[B]

Yeah, I can.

[A]

In a court of law. You'd be in contempt of court, I think, if you did that. Ooh.

[B]

Oh, it. Oh. Are you ready for this history lesson?

[A]

Did it originate from a lighter?

[B]

No, it originated from a play, Gaslight, written by Patrick Hamilton in 1938, and the play was later adapted into some films called Gaslight. So basically, it's a story of when a husband secretly searches the attic for hidden jewels, and when he turns on, this is it. The gas powered light Lights upstairs. The gas lights up the rest of the house. That was. That was dim slightly. His wife notices the lights flickering and dimmering, but when she asks about it, he insists that nothing has changed and that she must be imagining it. What? History, George.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That is what we needed to know.

[A]

I was stuck on the fact that you said dimmering and I didn't know it was a word. Did it not say dimming? Did chat GPT say dimmering?

[B]

Hold on, hold on. Nope.

[A]

Yet it said dimming.

[B]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[A]

Okay, now you're gaslighting me.

[B]

You don't know what you're talking about this whole episode.

[A]

We're just gonna be gaslighting each other.

[B]

I don't. I don't remember that, George.

[A]

It just hit me in a way. You know when someone hits your brain, you're like, that's. That's not a thing. That was really good, though. Thank you for that.

[B]

Dimmering. Dimmering.

[A]

You know what? That was the first time you've. You've taken the onus to look something up instead of me. I'm usually the one who says, I guess I'll do the work.

[B]

Really do. You know, like, I use my phone a lot here. I feel like I.

[A]

Like I'll use it not to be helpful. You've never used it to be helpful.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, George Campbell.

[A]

Now you have used it to, like, phone a friend.

[B]

I bet they'll do some montages of me using my phone. I bet I use it way more than you.

[A]

Well, if we do a montage, it's gonna be you calling Dave, hearing his voicemail, calling Sharon, calling Winston. You have, like, power.

[B]

Sorry, I'm a communicator.

[A]

And that I have resourcefulness. You have influence. Which one would you rather have? Anybody can be resourceful.

[B]

Influence.

[A]

You'd rather have influence.

[B]

I think at the end of the world, I need bread and water. How are you gonna get it?

[A]

You think Dave would answer if I called? I don't even know if he has my number. He did add me to a group chat once, and I thought he must have added me by accident, but he didn't. He was like, yo, we meeting up? Let's go. Like, hotel lobby meet up.

[B]

Oh, like at an event, grabbing some

[A]

food after an event. And I was like, george, this is what's up.

[B]

You're like, this is it.

[A]

Made it to the group chat.

[B]

I'm in it. Okay, so who are some OG Gaslighters that you can think of?

[A]

OG Gaslighters.

[B]

I think about the mom untangled.

[A]

Oh, Mother Gosling.

[B]

Yeah, she was a gaslighter.

[A]

Forgot about her.

[B]

Yes. Because she. Yes. If you watch that whole movie, it is the psychological crazy.

[A]

You know what I'm thinking? Almost every movie has a gaslighter. I mean, wasn't Satan the original gaslighter?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

The Serpent in the garden 100.

[B]

It was.

[A]

Guys.

[B]

Yes. He's like, God didn't say that. Oh, my gosh. That to Mother Gotham. I mean, we're crazy.

[A]

That's not what he said.

[B]

Good job, George. Look at you. You're so biblical.

[A]

You know what? My Sunday school teacher would really be proud and it was my mom who was my Sunday school teacher. Shout out to Arabic Evangelical Church.

[B]

Arabic Baptist.

[A]

No, my favorite, I think, like, because of my favorite movies, I'm thinking through Aladdin. I'm like, oh, like Jafar Gaslit Aladdin at the Cave of Wonders.

[B]

Yes. As he was. Yeah. He was like, just get the lamp.

[A]

Yeah. And he pretended to be like. When he came up as a little old man, he's like, oh, that cave, you know, convinced him to go into

[B]

the cave to do something.

[A]

And then Space Jam, Another favorite.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like there was also a lot of gaslighting there.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

But I don't remember how or who.

[B]

I know. I'm trying to think of my movies now. I don't know. I'm not that quick on the draw.

[A]

Well, you watch a lot of rom coms. Less gaslighting.

[B]

There's a lot of gaslighting there. Gosh. Probably some books I read.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

There's some gaslighters in there.

[A]

Can I just ask you what's going on with women in books? Cause my wife is in a book club, and she's like, I can't read the book. They're so dark.

[B]

Well, you're speaking about one genre, and I. I don't know.

[A]

I have a. Most book, like, true crime.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I have a weird kidnapping, a bunch of abductions.

[B]

100%. Give me a murder, affair, kidnapping, all of it. I know. And I think I have a high threshold. Cause I was entertained by, like, unsolved mysteries in 2020 as a kid. Like, that's what my family would watch, and they wouldn't change the channel. Like, you were four years old watching 20 20.

[A]

Grew up fast.

[B]

And Unsolved Mysteries and like, all these, like, Rescue 911. Yeah. Like, we. I watched Trauma from a Young Age on tv.

[A]

Do you think it caught?

[B]

I really do.

[A]

If you watch trauma, does it cause trauma?

[B]

No. But you know what did? Kind of the one time I really was scared that I remember feeling like something's bad gonna happen to me. It was after Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped. Oh, that messed me up. I was her age.

[A]

Yes, that's right.

[B]

Hated that one. That was horrible.

[A]

All I can think of is that she now follows us on Instagram.

[B]

Yes. I actually reached out to her, George,

[A]

to be on the show.

[B]

No. Oh, we should get Elizabeth Smart on this show. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

All right.

[B]

She's. Well, I watched a recent documentary with her, and she was so good. She's amazing.

[A]

Like, very poised.

[B]

You watch her now and you can Tell the way she speaks about things. And, like, she's done a lot, a lot of work. I mean, she. I mean, I would assume so much therapy and emdr. I mean, I can't even imagine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What? Because of what she went through. I mean, horrific. It's just. Oh, it's terrible. But she's able to, like, communicate it, talk about it. Anyways, I just DM'd her because I just.

[A]

Did she respond?

[B]

I just wanted to tell her that she did a great job with the documentary and that, like, she needed to

[A]

hear that from you.

[B]

And she responded, george, that's so nice. I kind of freaked out. I was like, oh, my gosh. Elizabeth Smart just DM'd me.

[A]

Can I tell you, this is off topic, but I recently DMed a celebrity.

[B]

Yes, you did.

[A]

Who? No, no, but it's a different one. On Instagram, I found that this person following me.

[B]

We need Guy.

[A]

And he didn't respond. And I was a little bit sad. Cause I was like, you follow me, and I didn't even follow you. And you're not gonna respond to my dm?

[B]

Will you say who it is?

[A]

Yeah, I'll tell you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Have you ever seen the show Shrinking?

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, then you lost me.

[B]

Oh, no. We got some nods, though, from the crew. What'd you say?

[A]

It's the neighbor's husband on Shrinking. His name's Ted. Great actor. Love him on Shrinking. And I saw he followed him, and I was like, oh, my gosh, Ted, huge fan of your work. Love Shrinking. So good. Yeah, that's it. No response.

[B]

Did it say red, though, at the bottom?

[A]

I think it said scene.

[B]

Oh, shit. Oh.

[A]

And it's like, you know when you're seen but not heard? That's me and Ted right now.

[B]

That was you and Ted? Oh, man.

[A]

Still a fan.

[B]

I bet Elizabeth would message you back, George.

[A]

Yeah, but now it feels weird to just message people for no reason. Just be like, hey, do you see me? Feels a little bit desperate.

[B]

Well, I just was really proud of Elizabeth after I watched that documentary. Okay. So all that to say I can. My capacity for kind of crazy stories,

[A]

handling gaslighting and toxicity.

[B]

And I know some people can't do it. I can. So I don't know what that says about me.

[A]

I don't know what it says about you. You can handle a lot of toxicity.

[B]

Maybe I should. Maybe I'm in the wrong profession.

[A]

What should you be doing?

[B]

Detective. Investigator?

[A]

You think you could be a good detective because you've read some books?

[B]

I'm just saying Because I can handle that stuff. More than, like, Whitney, who doesn't want to read that stuff.

[A]

She's like, no, I guarantee you couldn't find a missing purse in your own house.

[B]

What are you talking about, Georgia?

[A]

Let alone an abduction case.

[B]

Listen, if you need someone stalked online now that I will find them for you. I'm a detective. I am in my own right. I do feel like I'm a detective.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

I can stalk anyone. Hey, I found out. Yeah. Mark Zuckerberg.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

His old yacht.

[A]

His yacht was in. You could see in Cabo.

[B]

When we were in Cabo, this massive, like, half cruise ship came floating by, and I found it on yachtfinder.com or Vessel Finder. But then you had to get the name, location, and then I had to look up the.

[A]

Then you had to get the subscription. And you're like, I'm not.

[B]

No, I. I didn't pay for it. Yeah, no, whatever.

[A]

I. I'm gaslighting you.

[B]

Whatever that's ever.

[A]

We get a lot of these calls on the Ramsey show, truthfully, where someone calls in. Now we get one side of the story, and to be fair, we don't know the other side.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I've got DMS from people saying, I can't believe what they said. They were lying to.

[B]

That was my boyfriend on the line. And he. And they DM the girlfriend. Dms. Yes. As he. And I'm like, oh, sorry, girl. Well, I just heard his side of the story because he called in.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, let's be honest.

[B]

On your side, you can, but we

[A]

have to assume you're telling us the truth. We can try to dig a little bit, but you can make up stories for days.

[B]

100%.

[A]

We recently had one, I think had some gaslighting in it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I think you were on the call. You were. The woman called in. This is a crazy story. And she said, my husband and I could not be further apart financially. He shows up and there's a new car, and he didn't tell me about it. He goes on vacations that doesn't tell me. And she says, he's on a vacation

[B]

right now and he doesn't invite me. And I was like.

[A]

We said, by himself.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, wait, with friends. Or she's like, no, by himself. And we were like, what? And then we said, what type of vacation? Cause we thought maybe like a monastery. Yeah.

[A]

You can be so proud of me.

[B]

Going to meditate for a weekend, like, I don't know, a cruise on A cruise.

[A]

And Rachel says, by himself? Does he do these a lot? He's got a few more planned. And then I go, does he invite you? And she said, well, I asked him. I told him I was gonna go on one jokingly. And then next day, he said, did you book it? And I said, no. And he said, good, because I don't want you to go. And I went, amy, I. I think he's cheating on you.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think this is good.

[A]

I rarely make a blanket statement like, I'm on Maury.

[B]

He's for sure doing some weird stuff on that cruise. No, no, no.

[A]

So I think there was some gaslighting there where he made her think she was the crazy one for being like, no, I'm not. What?

[B]

What? I'm just going on a cruise by myself.

[A]

Cruises all the time. That's insane that you would even insinuate anything's going on.

[B]

Sorry. Sorry. If any of y' all have solo cruise. Married, male.

[A]

She was shocked at the possibility.

[B]

You're weird. If you have. You're weird. I'm just saying it. That's weird.

[A]

So there you go. Gaslighting is.

[B]

And here's what I was gonna say to her. Here's my detective work.

[A]

We got off the call, and I remember this.

[B]

Almost went back in the booth to say, hey, can I. Can I talk to Amy again? Because what I would have done is I would have gone on Facebook or Instagram and found the ship name, and people tag the ship name or location, and I would have found people presently on the ship posting pictures of their vacation, and I would have DM'd them and said, I will pay you $1,000 if you can find this man, show him picture, and you can get him in any compromising position. Like, if he's in a pool chat. I don't care. I don't care what it is you send me. You send me eight pictures, and I will. And I'll pay you the big bucks. Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then you know what I did? Oh, man. I'd have. So. I'm so evil. See, this is. This is what happens when you read crazy books.

[A]

This is the mother goffeling you.

[B]

It is.

[A]

No, no. What would you do?

[B]

I don't. Okay, so what do you do? Do you accidentally, like, send him a text and then be like, oops, didn't mean to send that picture, but it's him at a nightclub on this boat?

[A]

I think I'd wait for him to get back.

[B]

Okay, and then would you have him, like, printed out in an album and been like, I hope you had a fun vacation. I went ahead and got you an album for it.

[A]

I think outing it publicly, like, big sign on the front lawn, that kind of thing, with a poster of it.

[B]

Oh, you wanna do it? Like, would you do it at your house now?

[A]

If I was planning on moving, if it was like, hey, this marriage is over. I'm not going to live here much longer. Let's have some fun with this. Let the neighbors know.

[B]

Let the neighbors know.

[A]

Because we all want. The neighbors want the tea.

[B]

You're a cheater.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Now my. My second thought.

[B]

I have adrenaline right now. I feel like this is, like, gonna happen.

[A]

How do we know he was even telling the truth? Because a cruise is a great lie. Because you're like, I don't have reception.

[B]

That's true too.

[A]

Not paying for Wi Fi. He could have been anywhere for a week.

[B]

I just don't feel like he was that smart. I don't know why I got that vibe.

[A]

Yeah, I'm giving him too much credit as a gaslighter. I know. Well.

[B]

Weird.

[A]

Well, Rachel, it's been a minute since we've done a good financial role play challenge. I think Rick's Boats may have been the last great one.

[B]

Rick's Boats.

[A]

Let's play that clip, give him a taste. Hey, ma', am. How can I help you here? Rick. Rick's Boats. I'm Rick. Pleasure to meet you.

[B]

Do you own the store?

[A]

My dad, Rick Senior, he was the owner, but I took it over his passing just a few months ago. Rest in power, Rick. How can I help you, ma'?

[B]

Am? So sorry for your loss.

[A]

Aw, I appreciate that. He was older than a tick on a boat.

[B]

Did he die on a boat? I grew up on the lake with my dad. Are you crying?

[A]

Wow. What's your dad's name?

[B]

I don't want to tell you his name.

[A]

I recognize you.

[B]

No, you don't, Rick.

[A]

People loved it.

[B]

It's funny.

[A]

It got unhinged pretty quickly. People were dying. They. There was tears. That's usually how improv goes. So we thought, let's bring it back. So our team made up some scenarios where there's some financial gaslighting happening. And we're going to see. You know, it's a parent versus a child that's a landlord and a renter borrowing money from friends. So we're going to play these. We'll each play a character and we'll see who wins. Let us know in the comments who you think wins because it's very subjective. Rachel thinks she wins every round, everything we do. I tend to agree because she cares more about that than I do.

[B]

Okay, so this first one. George, you're the landlord.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm either renter or tenant, and I am moving out of my rental house because my lease is up. And I email you, George, to ask when I can expect my security deposit to be reimbursed, but you start gaslighting, claiming that you need to keep the deposit for damages even though you can't name specific repairs.

[A]

Wow. Okay, this is juicy.

[B]

All right, you ready?

[A]

I love a world where you're renting from me. That's wild. All right, you emailed me. I'm gonna try to move to a position of power here where there's no trace. If it's a phone call, you just. There was a phone call, but it's not in writing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, pick up.

[B]

Hello?

[A]

Hi, Rachel, this is George calling your landlord.

[B]

Oh, hi, George. How are you?

[A]

Good. Just wanted to touch base about your email. Yeah, I'll have to withhold that security deposit due to some damages that I found when doing a perimeter check.

[B]

Oh, okay. What specific damages did you see?

[A]

Well, there was some damage to the carpet. I saw a lot of scuffs and holes in the wall.

[B]

Holes in the wall?

[A]

Yes. It may have been from you trying to hang up pictures. Poorly. Oh, I noticed you had some artwork. I don't. I can't even call it artwork. Because it wasn't. Is that art? I don't know. It's subjective. But all that to say it's going to cost me a couple of grand just to try to get this ready for the new tenant. So, unfortunately, I'm gonna have to keep it.

[B]

Well, if you actually see that there's only one or two holes, and I don't mind patching them up because I can do it for under $20.

[A]

Yeah, it's not really a DIY situation. We need this professionally done. And no offense to you, I'm sure you're great, but I need my guy out there to do it.

[B]

Well, no, according to the contract.

[A]

Oh, you read the contract.

[B]

I did read the contract.

[A]

Perfect. Well, you'll notice in the contract, I made sure there was a line stipulating that I have 30 days to hire an inspector to verify the.

[B]

Yes, but the damage had to be at a certain extent.

[A]

I think that's up to my interpretation.

[B]

Okay, well, I need the before and after pictures emailed to me, please, because I may get with my attorney.

[A]

Oh, wow, you took before Pictures. I'd love to see those.

[B]

I did. Right when I was moving. And I was so excited about your nice apartment.

[A]

I look forward to that. I'll have my attorney call yours.

[B]

And I went around and took pictures of everything and you'll actually see that one of the holes was from a previous tenant. Did you keep their deposit too?

[A]

I made sure that all holes were patched up before you moved in. That's the kind of landlord I am.

[B]

I think so. That's really sad. You have missed missed it. Cuz I, I, I'm trying to turn.

[A]

You should check your vision.

[B]

I'm trying to turn it back on you. Trying to gaslight you.

[A]

That contract's ironclad. I wish you the best though.

[B]

Ralph. My attorney.

[A]

I'll make sure to put that security deposit to good use fixing up from all the damage you did. Appreciate your time, Rachel. Have a good day.

[B]

Contacting you by. I went lious.

[A]

Did you put up a good fight? You went immediately to my lawyers.

[B]

I did. I just went. My, my lawyer Ralph will contact you. Ralph, doesn't that sound like a good lawyer?

[A]

No. Honestly, no.

[B]

Doesn't that sound Ralph?

[A]

I don't know, Ralph.

[B]

The lawyer just feels right.

[A]

That was a tough one.

[B]

God, that was hard.

[A]

But it's a good reminder. You got to be like covering your butt when it comes to this stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like when you rent a car I know I don't trust they go, well, that, that was there before.

[B]

Well, they do walk around with you. And I've got, I do with it.

[A]

I do. Like you just walk out and get in the car and go, oh yeah, yeah. And so I try to do a quick like video of something.

[B]

Just like I don't want to just

[A]

to say no, I have video.

[B]

And then that kind of there it was there before.

[A]

Not pulling a fast one on old Georgie. You're not going to gaslight me.

[B]

That is tough. Well, I do know one thing that I have been loving recently though, is all my Cozy Earth products. No lies there, no, no manipulation, no gaslighting there. Because the quality it holds so well. Like literally just this weekend we were at soccer games all Saturday and I had my Cozy Earth joggers and sweater on because it was a little cold still here in Nashville in the early mornings. And, and that's, I'm like, I just, I wear that stuff all the time. And so it's so comfortable. It's so. Oh, and my socks, I wore my Cozy Earth socks with it too.

[A]

Are you sure they were Cozy Earth socks?

[B]

Rachel, they were. Don't try to gaslight me, because I sure on my left was cozy, and on my right said earth.

[A]

I do love that.

[B]

And I switched it. Like, I, like, made sure it was right.

[A]

I'm. You know what I'm doing? I'm slowly trying to convert my wardrobe to where I only have cozy earth socks.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean? Only have cozy earth joggers.

[B]

Now, that's a bougie life right there.

[A]

So slowly collecting that. That's kind of my new thing. Because I don't have hobbies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so make it your hobby. To live life a little more comfortably. Go to cozyearth.com smart money. You can get up to 20% off when you use code smart money at checkout. We'll also drop a link in the description.

[B]

Okay, George, next up. Oh, this is fun. Okay, I'm the lender. We're friends. Okay? Friend to friend.

[A]

All right.

[B]

But I'm the lender, you're the borrower.

[A]

And.

[B]

And I lent you $500 last month for rent, and I need to.

[A]

I was short on rent and I

[B]

need to get it back. How irresponsible are you? Unbelievable.

[A]

Well, clearly I'm going through something. Rachel, thanks for the compassion to kick it off here. Okay, so what else is happening in this scenario? Give me more.

[B]

I'm a little hesitant because you've not paid me back fully in past transactions we've done together.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And. Yeah. So here we go. I need to get my money back. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can do this.

[A]

Where are we meeting up? Is this in person?

[B]

I have, like, a coffee shop. It should be on, like, your playing level, you know, your world.

[A]

Because you wouldn't darken the door of a coffee shop.

[B]

I don't really go to coffee shops.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

Okay. It feels like an easy escape, too. I feel like they have multiple doors.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, you can just leave.

[B]

Hey, George.

[A]

Hey, Rachel. What's going on?

[B]

How are you? You drinking a cold brew?

[A]

I am today, actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a single origin. Can I get you one?

[B]

Very nice. No.

[A]

No. Okay.

[B]

I'd rather you save your money, George.

[A]

Really? For what?

[B]

Yeah, I know. I was just seeing where you're at with the $500 that I lent you last month to cover your rent. My husband Winston and I, we are planning a birthday party for our 10 year old and.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

We need some cash.

[A]

Aren't you the queen of budgeting? It feels like you'd be able to do that so easily.

[B]

You wouldn't Say, yeah, you would think. But I had $500 extra of income this month thinking you were paying me back. So I've already included it in my expenses and so to kind of trip the budget.

[A]

Yeah. You know what's funny though? You never gave me an actual timeline of when I needed to pay it back.

[B]

Okay. Cause you just said I just needed it for this month, that I can make sure that.

[A]

Yeah, I decided I need it for this month. I never said I could get it back to you the next month.

[B]

Okay, so when do you think is the next time you will have 500 cash?

[A]

I don't think now's the time to get into details. You know what I mean?

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

But I should have it sometime in the near future.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, you can be drinking a lot of cold brews between now and then, because you could just. Do I put you on a payment plan?

[A]

I'm not comfortable on payment plans.

[B]

$5? Yeah, it's like an after pay, Rachel.

[A]

Well, I follow. I follow this financial, like, influencer, Rachel Cruz on Instagram, and she said payment plans are never a good idea.

[B]

Never.

[A]

So because of that, yeah, I've stayed

[B]

away from them even to keep a relationship going. Somewhat of a trustworthy, you know, connection that's not completely broken. It's like just a little good faith, you know, Emilia's really. She's wanting a swim birthday party with new floats and new games.

[A]

Sounds like she needs to learn a little contentment and be happy with the party she gets. And honestly, I didn't know a healthy relationship keeps score like that. You know what I mean?

[B]

I also, yeah, didn't know that a healthy relationship would disrespect the other person so much to tell them that they won't give them a time frame at which their hard earned money was given to you, which, I don't know. Do you work?

[A]

I do have a job, yes. I'm employed.

[B]

Good, I'm glad.

[A]

Yeah, I just got laid off. Thanks for asking. You'd know that if you were a friend. I put it on my Instagram story.

[B]

Oh, did you?

[A]

And added looking for work on my LinkedIn. I know you follow me over there, but. No, it's okay. I know you've been really busy. I just saw you guys went to a trip to Italy and bought a new car. And so I know that's. That's taken up a lot of your time. I'm gonna really try hard. As soon as I get a job again, I'm gonna get you that money back.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, thanks. For being such a good friend.

[B]

No, you're so good.

[A]

Honestly.

[B]

Enjoy your $5 cold brew.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Because it looks like you. You have five bucks, so that's good for you.

[A]

Well, I was gonna buy you a coffee.

[B]

Oh, so you have $10. Great. Well, so you could give me that, and you could have owe me nine hundred and four hundred and ninety dollars. You know what?

[A]

I'll buy you a coffee, and I'll owe you $495.

[B]

Oh, that sounds good.

[A]

As soon as I get that job, I'll be in touch.

[B]

You know, George, you have a birthday party to plan.

[A]

I don't want to keep you. Rachel.

[B]

No, I just feel bad for you. Are you.

[A]

I appreciate that. You know what? A little empathy from you is rare, so I appreciate the compassion.

[B]

Oh, George, you're such a good friend.

[A]

Enjoy the new Lexus I saw out there. It looks beautiful.

[B]

End scene.

[A]

That's a tough one, man.

[B]

I tried to, like, belittle you. You know how some people, like, belittle me? Just like, mm, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I do that.

[A]

I do that.

[B]

No, I tried to do that to you to make you feel bad. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Some people do. What I just did to you.

[A]

Well, the thing that you underestimate is that I have no shame. And I think it's really hard to deal with someone who has no shame.

[B]

Yeah. It's just all out there, and they're fine with it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I've got some of those aggressive friends in my life who you're like. It's so hard to say no or to confront them because they can just. No argument now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Just deflated instantly. And I think that's a form of gaslighting. That's manipulation in and of itself, especially

[B]

if you go on a. What's it called, like, in Congress, where A filibuster.

[A]

Oh, that's a great idea.

[B]

Someone can just solo filibuster, and they just stop. And then you're like, I don't even know where you're going with this conversation. I can't.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Figure out a way out of it. My points. Now I'm so lost because of where you're taking us. You know, not good. Not good.

[A]

And I. Have you ever lent a friend money?

[B]

I'm gonna be honest. I don't. I mean, you're adult. Unless it was a situation of, like, yeah, I'll grab dinner, and someone's gonna like, Venmo.

[A]

I mean, like, a small amount.

[B]

That kind of stuff.

[A]

Not like, hey, I need 500 bucks for.

[B]

Yeah. No, we've had situations where we've given people money.

[A]

Just. That's. That's the key.

[B]

That's it. Just give it. No. Straight. It just feels so much better where you're like, I have no expectations, so never lend it.

[A]

And if you can and want give it, give it. With no strings attached.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And if you can't give it, just.

[B]

And for some people, and they won't even say it during the interaction, but, like, later, like, a year later, they're like, hey. They, like, you know, this happened to us. They wrote us a check back for the amount that we gave them because they were like, we just want to true it up. We. Because we just weren't out of place, and now we are, and we just want to say, like, that kind of thing, which I was not expecting and actually kind of was like, no, don't worry about it. But they so much wanted to. So that's happened.

[A]

But it does change the rel. Even in this, I was like, this is icky. I don't like role playing. This.

[B]

Yes. I don't like. Yeah.

[A]

Me owing you money. It's like, I don't even want to see right now. I want to avoid her at all costs.

[B]

It is awkward. Yeah. So if you have the money, make sure. If you're going to help anyone in any situation, it needs to be an amount of money that you can, again, just let go of and not expect anything.

[A]

It's not going to hurt your financial future.

[B]

Yep. And then that is the most freeing

[A]

way, because then they become resentful. They feel guilty and shamed, and it's just a spiral and the relationship is gone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I've never seen it work out where they're like, bff.

[B]

Later on, there's always a little negative, negative tilt to the relationship.

[A]

Someone soured there. All right, next one.

[B]

Oh, this is funny. I'm the parent. You're the adult child.

[A]

I am your child.

[B]

I'm your. You're in the. You're in your 50s. This says, and I'm in my 80s.

[A]

Okay. I'm trying to picture this. You're 85.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I'm 55.

[B]

I'm like, this one. 80.

[A]

With, like, so much work. Just. You couldn't move a muscle on that shit.

[B]

Okay. And you're wondering what my financial plans look like. And, oh, gosh, I'm gonna need more permanent healthcare like a nursing home care. I get defensive and gaslighting. Say, you don't have anything to worry about. I can handle it. I'm perfectly capable.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

I'm ready, Mother.

[B]

Okay. Hi, George.

[A]

Hey, Mom. How's it going?

[B]

I'm good. Just sipping on my drink.

[A]

How are you doing? Have you been taking your medication? Every day. You seem a little bit out of it, so I just wanted to make sure you were okay.

[B]

I take a double sometimes.

[A]

Wait, mom, are you. Is that alcohol?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Mom, you know you can't drink while you're on your meds. Your doctor told you about this?

[B]

It's okay. I'm 80. I knew what I want.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

Is this gonna be me?

[A]

Oh, I'm 80. We gotta talk to you.

[B]

I need a Chanel purse, too. I feel like that's me, Rachel at 80.

[A]

I know, mom, but I'm worried about you.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Well, ever since Dad's been gone, I'm so country. Wow. Ever since Dad's been gone. I know you've been. It's been a struggle financially.

[B]

Winston,

[A]

start bawling. Winston. Wow.

[B]

I miss him.

[A]

I miss dad, too, mom, but he was 96. He had a good life.

[B]

That much older than me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I was young.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you were what, 18? 19. As the crow flies. When you guys got married.

[B]

In that. For distance, George?

[A]

Could be. But in the south, that's just what we say. But ever since then. I know. Like, you guys didn't really have a financial problem.

[B]

What?

[A]

I mean, how are you even covering the mortgage and all of your bills and all the work you've got done? Clearly.

[B]

I got a reverse mortgage, George.

[A]

Oh, no, Mom.

[B]

Credit cards.

[A]

Stop watching tv. Was it one of those Tom Selleck ads?

[B]

I got a walk in Bathtub, too. No. And gold. Mom,

[A]

mom, you know you can't afford this.

[B]

Me? Fine. I'm gonna die in four years, George.

[A]

Well, that's what I want to talk about. Can you not smoke in the house? Mom, please don't smoke in the house.

[B]

Oh, George, you're so worried about everything. It's fine.

[A]

We're never gonna be able to sell this place if it reeks of cigarettes.

[B]

No, you can have it. I'll put it in my will. But then you probably won't have much. Cause I have so much.

[A]

Well, there's a reverse mortgage on it, so, yeah.

[B]

You won't get anything.

[A]

The lender's gonna take it.

[B]

Georgie, you doing okay?

[A]

We're doing fine. My wife and I are doing fine.

[B]

Don't you worry about me.

[A]

Well, I am worried, mom, because I Want the best for you. And I think the best next step is for you. We found a great place. It's just down the street.

[B]

Are you shipping me away, George?

[A]

I don't think shipping. We're gonna drive you there. It'll be great. They got Bingo. They got Wheel of Fortune. I know you love to watch Wheel of Fortune every night.

[B]

I love watching Wheel of Fortune.

[A]

And they do some karaoke nights. I know you love to sing.

[B]

Do I? In my old age.

[A]

Well, you're not good at it, but you love to do it, Mom. You always have.

[B]

My shame has gone down.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

When I was younger, George, I'd never sang in public.

[A]

But now you love it.

[B]

I'm a songbird.

[A]

Well, I think you're gonna love this place. I know you're a very social butterfly and the community here is amazing. They're gonna take good care of you. So would you mind if we take a tour tomorrow?

[B]

Sure. 3:00pm I'm supposed to say no, right?

[A]

Too late, you said.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

End scene. Got mom to do the tour.

[B]

Oh, that was hard. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you're on the soft.

[B]

Yeah. But you did dangle social in front of me. If I could be with people.

[A]

That's what I said. I was like, you're isolated. You're not pretty good. Ever since Dad's been gone, just crazy. He died on a boat.

[B]

He died on a boat.

[A]

Just wouldn't have thunk it. Wow.

[B]

That is hard, though, The. The adult child to parent whole situation, that. Those are tough conversations, though.

[A]

We get that call a lot on the Ramsey show of how do I talk to my mom and dad, who didn't prepare financially.

[B]

They're broke, and we.

[A]

And we don't want them to live with us. And they're sort of assuming and hinting that, well, I'll just come live with you guys. And you have to put up this boundary and say, I'm gonna help you get on a budget. We're gonna figure this out because you can't live with us. That's not the next move.

[B]

And that's especially depending on the situation, how dire it is of how you step in and basically help control the situation and the finances if you can. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that is a hard one because you're not gonna let your parents live on the street. Like, I mean, that's. You know, they may make some bad choices like reverse mortgages or whatever, and

[A]

you can't stop them.

[B]

That's the case. You can't stop them. And then, you know. But the thing Is too. Their debt does not come to you in debt.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

It goes against the estate. Yeah.

[A]

So whatever assets they have.

[B]

It's hard. I mean, a lot of parents do not listen to their kids with this kind of stuff. They just do what they want and

[A]

so they don't want to hear it or they have too much kind of shame or baggage or guilt and they go, no, no, you don't need to deal with that.

[B]

Yes, yes. Yeah, that's hard.

[A]

Those are probably my least favorite not scenarios.

[B]

I know. It's really sad.

[A]

A lot of sadness there. And it's not a lot of time. They can't work a lot of times. So there's not a whole lot you can do.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Other than go, okay, are you making anything from Social Security that and you know, totally Medicare that we can use to cover you.

[B]

Oh, so difficult.

[A]

Or get on a plane with the siblings to go, hey, we're gonna. I'll chip in a few hundred bucks a month to cover this care or life. But you gotta go, hey, you can't live this lifestyle you want to live.

[B]

No.

[A]

So there's a gap from homelessness to bougie life.

[B]

Sure, 100%. But you did mention nursing home in our segment. But getting long term care insurance when you're 60 or older is really important because that stuff is expensive. Whether you have, you know you're going somewhere or if you have in home care, someone coming to the house.

[A]

Like, you're talking six figures a year so you could burn through 300 grand in two years of nursing.

[B]

I know. Yep. So things to think about. Oh, man. Well, I'll say one thing though, George, that Winston and I made a change, and I'm so thankful we did, is we started banking with Fair Winds Credit Union and we opened up an account online. And it was so easy to do. Like, I was shocked. Like, the whole experience of doing it, it was so simple. And it just showed you screen by screen what to fill out. And then actually the next day, I had someone call me from Fairwinds.

[A]

I thought I was special. I guess everyone calls.

[B]

I know. No, they call everyone special.

[A]

They call every customer. They come through the Ramsey link. Yes, I found that out.

[B]

Oh, through the Ramsey link.

[A]

Yes. Isn't that cool?

[B]

Yes. So if you guys go to fairwinds.org Ramsey you can sign up for the Smart Bundle because it's a High Yield savings account and a checky account, which you get your Ramsey Beware debit card. It's blue. So great. And it's just a great place to organize your money, keep your money and bank out of Fair ones Credit union.

[A]

Yeah, check it out. We'll drop a link in the description as well, but Fairwinds.org Ramsey easiest place to go. You'll be signed up within minutes.

[B]

So good. Okay, George, let's debunk some common self. Gaslighting lies. A little rapid fire.

[A]

I forgot you can gaslight yourself. Probably the most common person we lie to.

[B]

Put yourself in a bad position. Okay. One, you deserve it. Just charge it on a credit card.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Yeah, this is a hard one.

[A]

That's the wrong part of your brain talking.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's your heart.

[B]

It's the instant. It's the instant gratification of like, I just want something. I've worked hard. It's been a hard season of life. Like, whatever it is, even though I don't have the money, just buy it because. Oh, it's just easier. Just do it.

[A]

We can turn down the guilt and shame lever if we just ramp up the justification lever.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, I'll. It'll be fine.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And I do deserve. It was a hard week. So. It's so easy to convince yourself to do something you know isn't good for you long term.

[B]

But then what's hard too, is on the back end. Like, you're paying for that. Months, sometimes even years, depending on the purchase. So not great.

[A]

All right, next. It's only a 300 payment. Everyone has car loans. Ah, this is the. Well, everyone's doing it, so how bad can it be?

[B]

How bad could it be? It feels like everyone has a car loan. I mean, what are you talking about?

[A]

I'm going with the flow.

[B]

I know. So, yeah, again, justification of yeah, getting in debt and staying in debt. Cause in this mindset, when the loan is paid off, a lot of people go get a new car. Re up, you know, and so they just stay in that cycle, trade it

[A]

in, and they go, well, that was a little down payment there. And they just restart the cycle. But this is one that's hard to break, but once you break it, you never go back. I've never met someone who stops the car payment, pays for a car in cash, and then goes back in debt.

[B]

Yes. Rarely, rarely does that happen. All right. Renting is throwing your money away. Ooh, this is a hard one. Because it feels like that.

[A]

I could see that you're crazy. If you rent, you not want to build some equity, right?

[B]

Because it does feel like it's a lot of money that you're paying for rent and it's not doing anything for you, quote unquote, in the future. But what it is buying you is time and patience. And you really have that. It gives you that margin on your timeline. Because if you go and buy a house, which is like the largest purchase most people make, and you get stressed out, that home becomes a point of tension for you and your family for a long time. Like when you can't afford that payment and something breaks in the house or what? Like, it just causes a lot, a

[A]

lot of stress versus renting. You got so much flexibility, so much flexibility.

[B]

And you're not married to it. Like, it's just. It is. There is a level of freedom there while you get out of debt or get an emergency fund, save up a down payment.

[A]

Well, some of the most heartbreaking calls, we just took one this week. This guy called in and said, hey, I think we need to sell the house because it's over 50% of our take home pay. And he goes, well, we were making good money at the time, but then my wife, who was the breadwinner, decided she wanted to stay home when she had a kid. Which is a noble, wonderful thing. But now you have to have the conversation, all right, either she goes back to work and you get childcare or you need to move. Like, there was three things they could do, but all of them are not fun.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They all involve a lot of sacrifice and hard work. And so you got to think about that ahead of time as what of the next. What does the next 10 years look like?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Before you sign up for this mortgage payment.

[B]

Yeah. Which is a good point too, because the bank will give you a lot more money than what you will think.

[A]

Wow, we are rich.

[B]

So do not. Yeah. Do not max it out what they'll give you, because again, that margin gives you room to make other life choices. But when you're maxed out with it, you're kind of stuck in the life you have, which is not always.

[A]

Which is why we recommend no more than 25% of your after tax monthly income go towards your housing costs. Like your mortgage, you know, the principal, interest, taxes, insurance, all of that investing

[B]

is only for rich people.

[A]

Ooh. So you've just self selected out. It's not for me. That's for somebody else out there. Who am I to be investing that's such a big. I'm not on Wall Street. That's a scary one. Because if you think that it's only for rich people, you will never become wealthy.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

[B]

Yeah. Because if you never invest, it's hard to build wealth. So. Yeah. To your point.

[A]

So there's a. I think this is financial literacy issue. People just don't know, so they don't do it. And they just go, well, I don't want to mess it up. And it's confusing, it's overwhelming, it stresses me out and therefore I won't touch it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I won't ever seek out help from like a, you know, professional financial advisor to help me with this.

[B]

Yeah. I would always say that's the first step. People always ask like, what do I do? I would sit down with someone who's in the industry, who knows what's going on to teach you to kind of guide you in simple investments. Like they'll help you look at like a Roth IRA or talk about your 401k at work. Like they're going to be able to really guide you in some of this stuff. So I do think having someone in your corner that's helping you in your specific situation with your specific numbers, it's really great.

[A]

That's true. And you know, I just thought of a great resource we have. It's free on our website. It's our investing guide. I will drop a link in the description to that. That is all the financial literacy you need to get started investing. So no excuses now you know too much. All right, next one we gotta debunk. You have to have credit cards to be an adult. Rachel.

[B]

Just gaslighting yourself into a system that is so against you. I just can't do it. I really can't.

[A]

Nobody gaslights you more than the credit card companies.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

You deserve it. This is freedom to speak.

[B]

Get this. So you get airline miles.

[A]

Why would you wait? Build your credit points.

[B]

You can get points.

[A]

That's what all their marketing sounds like.

[B]

I know.

[A]

They make it so fun.

[B]

And all the things you get to

[A]

go to the airport lounge if you get this special card.

[B]

And it's, you know, have told me and I've talked to a few people recently in my life that yeah, they were like, yes, I stayed on budget. And we like stayed within our means, X, Y and Z. And then we got a credit card and we started spending more like there is. And the data proves it. Studies have been done that you spend 12 to 18% more on a credit card. And it is true, y'. All, I'm telling you, if you spend with cash or spend with a debit card, you are going to spend less Period. And I bet the amount of money you save over a year will pay for the airline tickets.

[A]

Oh, 100. That's what I tell people. If you get 2% cash back on your card, I am guaranteeing you that if you use a budget and you stick to debit or cash that you actually have, you will save more than 2% on what you would have spent on a card.

[B]

100.

[A]

I wish I could do a study on that, but it's hard to convince people to do that.

[B]

I know, I know. Oh, the credit cards.

[A]

That's a big one we hear. And the truth is we're adults and Rachel and I don't have credit cards.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

It's really not that hard. It's honestly, it's a nothing burger. Once you live without 1 100, you go, wow, they really, they. They made it sound like I was going to be dangerously living on the edge with my debit card.

[B]

I know, I know. All right, you can't save on this income. Someone's making something like, you can't save. And this is a hard one, because in order to save, if you are paycheck to paycheck, there are things you're going to have to do differently in your life. So whether that is upping the income or cutting things out. So if you are in that paycheck to paycheck cycle, it can feel like that you can't save. But that means that you're gonna have to make some little hard choices to cut back. Because saving is so crucial, though. Like, it's worth the sacrifices to have that money. Whether it's with an emergency fund or you're funding retirement for your future self, it is worth those sacrifices.

[A]

And it's a priority issue. I mean, you gotta prioritize savings to make it happen. You gotta put that away first before doing the other things. Now you gotta cover your four walls, your food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, all that good stuff. But beyond that, before you touch anything of your wants, your lifestyle stuff, put the money away in savings and get that thousand dollars starter emergency fund done fast. But the fallacy here is that your income is immovable.

[B]

Oh, that's a good point too.

[A]

That's what they're saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, you can't save on this income. And I'll always make $16 an hour. So I guess the Ramsey plan doesn't work for me. And we meet people on the debt free stage and they always say, well, I started at this income, but it ended up over here because I took on side jobs Or I worked my butt off and got the promotion.

[B]

Or over time, over three years, you should be making more money than you're making today in general. So like your income should be going up. Right. And you may take a different job and you take a little bit of a pay cut, whatever that looks like, but over the course of your life you should be making more money.

[A]

And sometimes you do need a legit career change because you're just in a field that doesn't have a big ceiling to it. And you do need to go get skills or education or, you know, network and start to move over there. But it can be done.

[B]

All right, Last but not least, student loans are good debt.

[A]

Oh boy.

[B]

This is what we heard all the time.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean the, the number thing I hear with this is, well, it's an investment in your future, Rachel. You don't care about the kids futures,

[B]

care about the future.

[A]

Wow. What cost?

[B]

Well, that and then the reality that a diploma in college does not guarantee that you're going to be successful. It doesn't guarantee that you're going to

[A]

get a job, especially in today's world.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It used to be impressive and now it's like, well, it's a thing you could check off.

[B]

Yeah. And everyone, everyone can get it basically, right. Because of student loans. Anyone can go to school. And we're all for education. Right. Like, I mean, we are saving for our kids to go to college. So I'm not bashing education, but this idea that you're going to be deeply in debt and when you open up the road of debt, suddenly money feels like monopoly money to a degree to an 18 year old.

[A]

Especially if you say it's good debt, I got to get more of it.

[B]

Yeah, because you're like, I don't know, 60,000 versus 90. It's only $30,000 difference. Like, I don't know, is it that big of a deal? But I really want to go to that school and so I'm just going to do it. And then you look like 30. That's an extra 18 months of paying off debt or whatever it looks like for you. You know what I mean? Like it's, it does, it costs you.

[A]

So we had a call in the Ramsey show, it was Dave Ramsey and I, and it was like a woman had a, she had a degree in social work and went like $250,000 into debt for this thing. And now she's making like $45,000 and she's like, how do I get out of this? There's not a lot of good solutions when the math is that, you know, weighted against you, so.

[B]

And you can't bankrupt student loans either, so.

[A]

Yeah, Sallie Mae made sure that they are.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Dangerous.

[B]

That is. That is crazy.

[A]

You know, so much gaslighting.

[B]

So much gaslighting and danger. And also having your personal info online. Very dangerous.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

That's why we love Delete Me. Because Delete Me will go in and remove your data from data broker sites that collect your data and they sell it to other companies. So you get spam and scams and phishing and, like, all of it, and it's just so annoying. And so removing your data online, so important to do today.

[A]

And it's so much easier than it ever was before because I've tried to fill out those forms online when I would find an address or, you know, my family's information on there, and it took a long time, and I had to track it and make sure they actually removed it and check back on that website. And to have a real data privacy expert do that for me behind the scenes and just send me the report, Absolutely worth it. And they've made it super affordable for the smart money. Happy to our fans out there. 20% off their annual plans. When you go to JoinDeleteMe.com SmartMoney or you can use the link in the description. And let me tell you, don't gaslight yourself thinking it's not gonna happen to me. Rachel. That's crazy. That's right.

[B]

That's a gaslighting. Not that big of a deal. Yes.

[A]

Don't do it.

[B]

Mm. Mm. Get deleted. Just sign it up. Sign up for it. All right, before we spill the tea in our guiltiest charge segment, what's the details of the drink? George?

[A]

This is the Mango Mojito mocktail. It's nice. It's got mango. I don't know what that means. Is it mango puree? Is it actual fruit? What are we talking?

[B]

Fresh mango puree.

[A]

Fresh mango puree. Wow. Wow. Thank you, team. I didn't even know how you guys pureed a mango back there.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

We don't have a kitchen. This is impressive.

[B]

So impressive.

[A]

It's got mango, fresh lime juice, mint, simple syrup, and sparkling water. Comes out to a dollar. 34 cents. That's pretty cheap.

[B]

Good. I know.

[A]

When you're talking mangoes, limes, mint.

[B]

When I think mojito, too, I think a pool or a beach.

[A]

Yes. This is a great one to have poolside.

[B]

Yes. I like it. I like it better now.

[A]

Than I did as it sat.

[B]

Yeah. When I first drank it, it was, like, a little bland or like, kind of watery.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder if. I wonder if the. Because the puree kind of floated to the bottom.

[B]

Yes. And now I'm getting a lot of mint and lime, which I love.

[A]

Yeah. The more the mint sits, too, it's sort of.

[B]

I'm going eight out of ten.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, I'll go eight out of ten as well. What I want is more mango, more lime. Like, I want it to be punchier.

[B]

I'd go more mango, a little.

[A]

Almost more like a nectar where it's a little thicker versus kind of a water watered down version. But it's really nice.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Love it. So get the recipe in the show notes. Give it a try this weekend. And this is one that the kids can enjoy, too.

[B]

That's right. All right, now it's time for guilty as charged. And this is where we ask each other a guilty as charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take a sip. All right, George, what. What is one frivolous expense you're guilty of splurging on before kids?

[A]

Oh, I can't even remember life before kids. I mean, for you, it was eons ago.

[B]

Eons ago.

[A]

Because your oldest is how old?

[B]

I know. She'll be 11 next week.

[A]

Wow. Little Amelia's all grown up.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Okay, so 11, 12 years ago, what were you guys spending on that? You look back and go, wow, simpler times that we were just blowing money here.

[B]

Before kids. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Now it's all for the kids.

[B]

Now it's all for the kids. I feel like we went out to eat a lot.

[A]

Just you two.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Every night I was like, you want to go out?

[B]

And I feel like. Yes. I feel like we were like, oh, yeah. Like, we didn't cook a ton. But then I'm trying to think back. Yeah, I would say food, probably. That's not one. Like, say frivolous. See, I need.

[A]

I need one frivolous exp. And a frivolous is such a. That's a weighted word.

[B]

Yeah. Do you have one?

[A]

I'm just trying to think of things that I'm like, that was kind of a waste. Or like, not a waste, but things that I couldn't do that today. And so for me, that might be the fancy gym membership.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now, we got a discount through the Ramsey health insurance here. So it was probably like, 130 bucks a person for, like, the lifetime fitness.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I'd go to, like, the sauna or whatever and do it. Do a quick workout and then off to the sauna. Ah, that's really.

[B]

Love a sauna.

[A]

So now it's like. That would be a real. Wow, what a frivolous treat that would be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Disappear to the gym for four hours.

[B]

I know. I was gonna say we dropped a golf membership that Winston had.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Since. Poor guy.

[B]

I know. He wasn't like a Matt. He wasn't like. He. He's not a avid.

[A]

He was a bandwagon. Like. Well, the guys.

[B]

Yeah. He could do it. Yeah. Pick up a club. Wow. A club or two with the guys. But yeah. So we dropped that.

[A]

Dang.

[B]

So that may be it. Maybe it's that one, because that was expensive. Per month.

[A]

Hundreds of dollars. Yeah. So, ladies, if you ever need. If your husband golfs, I feel like you can justify pretty much anything monthly.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Well, you spend 500amonth on golf, so.

[B]

True.

[A]

Who cares? If I get my nails done, I'm gonna do it.

[B]

All right, well, if you have a guilty charge question for us, make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Camel. Because we get them, we see them, and we're thankful for them.

[A]

We love them.

[B]

And if you love this episode, you may love the next episode. Love and money. Financial decisions people immediately regret. We will leave a link for you and make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all new episode of

[A]

Smart Money Happy Hour.

[B]

Cheers. Cheers.