Responding to Your Money Drama (Not Holding Back)

Summary

Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze & George Kamel

Episode: Responding to Your Money Drama (Not Holding Back)

Date: December 4, 2025
Host/Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

In this lively, unfiltered episode, Rachel Cruze and George Kamel dive into listeners’ burning money questions in a rapid-fire "Ask Me Anything" format. They tackle dilemmas ranging from navigating student loans at 61 to whether one can splurge on Super Bowl tickets, all while mixing in humor, childhood nostalgia, and strong Ramsey-inspired advice. Listeners get their hot takes (with a splash of sass) on pop culture, personal finance, and practical strategies for building wealth and affording a life you love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lightning Round: Money Dilemmas & Hot Takes

[02:14] Child Support, Lawyers, and Math

• Question: Should I keep paying lawyer fees to fight my ex who is trying to reduce child support?
  • George: "Are the lawyer fees worth what I'm trying to protect with the child support?" [02:41]
  • Both agree to weigh legal costs against future support received.
  • Quote: "If you're paying $100,000 to lawyers, but you're only getting 40,000 worth of child support…it's time to cut your losses." – George [03:01]
  • Both: Recognize the difficulty and emotional weight of these situations and advise objective cost-benefit analysis.

[04:13] Worst Way to Pay Off Debt?

• George: "The worst way is to just move the debt around thinking you've done something. That's actually the scariest." [04:32]
• Rachel: Using cash advances to pay down debt is also called out as a major trap.
• Both: Advocate for focusing on debt payoff directly; do not consolidate unless it’s a clear path to financial progress.

[05:10] Bear Hunt Detour: A Bit of Pure Rachel & George

• Rachel dives into an impromptu (and hilarious) retelling of "We're Going on a Bear Hunt" to illustrate confronting debt head-on.
  • Memorable Quote: “Can’t go over it, can't go under it, gotta go through it.” – Rachel [05:21]
• Lighthearted sidetrack about childhood and “trauma” from kids’ books—classic Smart Money banter.

[07:23] 61 and Still Has Student Loans

• George: "Getting rid of the loans is paramount because that payment could be used to then invest." [07:51]
• Rachel: Real talk for those in their 60s with debt: "You're going to be working longer than you probably want to." [07:59]
• Prioritize debt before investing for retirement; working years may need to be extended.

[10:00] Retirement Contributions on Baby Step 1

• George: "The real answer, you should contribute 0% right now...get that $1,000 emergency fund, knock out all of your consumer debt...then you won't be investing a measly 1%. You're gonna be investing 15%. Think about that." [10:00]
• Rachel: Emphasizes intensity: "If you tackle a goal like getting out of debt...you're going to wipe it out so much faster." [10:25]

[11:22] Should You Pull Investments to Pay Debt?

• George: Only consider cashing out non-retirement investments for debt payoff.
• Rachel: "Leave [retirement] alone. Anything else? Go ahead and cash out, throw it at the debt." [11:58]
• Penalizing retirement withdrawals outlined: taxes + penalties = losing future growth.

[12:34] Negotiating Salary

• George: “Go in emotionless, with just logic and facts, and talk about value and be as specific as you can.” [12:49]
• Rachel: Come prepared with accomplishments, work history, and market data.
• Both encourage annual raises as baseline; clear expectations and communication are key.

[14:50] Financial Safety as a Stay-at-Home Mom

• Rachel: Advocates for transparency—joint access to all accounts and equal say for both spouses.
  • "You bring as much value to the table as that." [15:39]
• George: Calls out controlling spouses: "If the spouse...is like, 'no, you can't see that.' That's a huge red flag. That can become financial abuse." [16:59]

[20:02] Using 403B for Home Down Payment

• Both: Hard no unless facing bankruptcy/foreclosure.
  • George: "This is like taking out a loan at 35% interest." [20:22]

[21:15] Storing $200k for Med School

• George: High-Yield Savings Account is the only safe option for funds needed in under 5 years. [21:42]
• Rachel: Don’t risk market volatility on near-term goals.

[22:59] Net Worth Before Buying Super Bowl Tickets

• George: "The experience watching at home is superior." [23:04]
• Rachel: "If [the money is] gone out of your account today, are you okay?" [24:05]
• General rule: pay in cash and only if it won’t disrupt financial goals.

[26:16] Newlyweds & Joint Accounts

• George: Joint accounts for personal funds, not business—unless spouse is business partner.
• Both: Stress importance of financial transparency in marriage.

[27:38] Paying Off House with Savings (Leaving 5k Cushion)

• Rachel: Wouldn't do it—prefer a fully-funded emergency fund first.
• George: Consider how eliminating your mortgage changes your emergency fund needs, but six months of expenses is still ideal.

[30:00] Why Not Lease a Car on Baby Step 7?

• Rachel: "If that's where you want to put the money, you can. But mathematically, it's the most expensive way..." [30:15]
• George: "Don't tell people you're on the Ramsey plan with your car lease." [30:40]
• Reiterate the folly of paying for depreciation and never owning an asset.

[31:25] What Would You Do with $500K?

• Rachel: Give some away, invest, fund a real estate project, and “take a fun vacation.” [31:40]
• George: Invest half, fully fund kid’s college, set up a “bridge” account, maybe build a pool, go on vacation, and (jokingly) hopes Rachel gifts him her old van. [32:26]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rachel (On debt consolidation): "When you move seven debts into one big debt, it's actually harder to pay off." [04:39]
• George (Bear Hunt Reflection): "At every turn I'm like, where will this story go next?" [05:38]
• Rachel (Financial Abuse): "You do have rights. Let me just say that you have rights." [17:54]
• George (On joint accounts): "Get back from the honeymoon and...make everything a joint account. That's going to make your wealth-building journey better, easier, more transparent." [26:32]
• Rachel (Net Worth Before Super Bowl): "Burn it in the middle of the table test: if it's gone out of your account today, are you okay?" [24:10]
• George (On leasing): "You owe people money...there's a buyout amount that you would owe to actually own that car." [30:55]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 02:14 | Should I keep paying lawyer fees to fight ex? | | 04:13 | Worst way to pay off debt? Bear Hunt Analogy | | 07:23 | 61 with student loans and saving for retirement | | 10:00 | Should I contribute to retirement at baby step 1? | | 11:22 | Should I pull money out of investments to pay debt? | | 12:34 | Best practices for negotiating salary | | 14:50 | How stay-at-home moms can feel financially secure | | 20:02 | Using a 403B for a home down payment? | | 21:15 | Where to keep $200k for med school in 3 years | | 22:59 | Net worth threshold before buying Super Bowl tickets? | | 26:16 | Newlyweds: add spouse to personal & business accounts? | | 27:38 | Is it dumb to pay off house & only have $5k left? | | 30:00 | Why can't you lease a car on baby step 7? | | 31:25 | "What would you do with $500K?" Fun hypotheticals |

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Tone & Takeaways

• Language & Style: Candid, witty, occasionally irreverent, but always warm and encouraging.
• Key Takeaway: Listeners have genuine, diverse money questions and a desire to "do the right thing"; Rachel and George offer both empathy and straight talk.
• Quote: "You get to pick. Sometimes the dumber decisions feel better in the moment because it's easier." – Rachel [35:39]
• Final Advice: Seek wise counsel; stay focused; don’t sacrifice long-term gain for short-term pleasure.

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Fun, Non-Financial Sidebars

• Bear Hunt Recap: Rachel can’t resist reliving childhood memories to make a point about trudging through financial challenges.
• Mocktail Review: Christmas Slush Mocktail gets a brutal 3–4/10: “A sad attempt,” says George. [36:43]
• Car banter: Rachel dreams of a luxury SUV if she got $500k, George wants a pool and jokes about getting Rachel’s van.
• Guilty as Charged: Both admit to money choices “Dave Ramsey wouldn’t approve”—like buying a Tesla or pet insurance.

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For New Listeners

If you missed this episode, expect a blend of actionable financial advice, Ramsey values, plenty of wit, and authentic moments that make even intimidating money topics relatable and, dare we say, fun.

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Skip the confusion, skip the FOMO—this Smart Money Happy Hour recap covers all the essentials, punchlines, and real world wisdom from Rachel and George’s December AMA!

Transcript

[A]

Well, you asked, and we love to yap. Today we're answering your ask me anything financial questions.

[B]

If I'm on baby step seven, why can't I lease a car?

[A]

Why can't you save up and just buy a car you like? You gotta find those friends, become friends with wealthy people. How long do I need to harp on this, guys? That's the life hack.

[B]

Hey, guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Campbel, and this is Smart Money Happy hour. Cheers, George.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

[A]

But first, what are we sipping on? We're sipping on the Christmas Slush mocktail.

[B]

I like the. It's like. It is slushy, which I like the texture of it.

[A]

It's like the gift that stopped giving immediately.

Just.

It's one of those. It's like a catfish of a drink. It's like, it looks great on the outside.

[B]

Mocktails are hard. I agree.

[A]

You know what? Way to give benefit of the doubt to whoever made this.

[B]

I may drink it concoction. I'm gonna drink it.

[A]

Stick around till the end. We're gonna give you our rating and reveal the cost per glass. All right, listen, this show has always been for you guys. It's not for us, all right? It's. We don't need this. This gives us nothing except joy. We do this for you, and today's no different.

[B]

I love this. Okay, so we are gonna do an ask me anything. And thanks to social media, AKA Instagram, you can put up one of those little. Those little squares. Yeah. And you just say, hey, ask me anything. And did you respond? Man, we had so many questions, and so we just took a bunch of them, threw em in this episode, and we're gonna go through them because there's some common questions in there. Maybe not so common, but this show is about you today. The Ask me anything show. And here we are.

[A]

It will range from helpful to hilarious to super sad to I'm doing better than I think.

[B]

You get all the emotions. All the emotions.

[A]

All right, let's get right into it.

[B]

Okay, I think we just go through these quick, George, what do you think? Lightning round number one. Wow. Okay, you ready? Should I keep paying lawyer fees to fight my ex who is trying to reduce child support?

[A]

That's how we're starting.

[B]

Merry Christmas.

[A]

This is happy hour.

[B]

Merry Christmas.

[A]

Not dumb money. Sad hour.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

See? Okay.

I try to put myself in this person's shoes. This is obviously a very difficult, emotional, grueling process they've been through and that they are continuing to be through. So would I keep paying lawyer fees to fight the ex who's trying to reduce. At some point, you have to go, are the lawyer fees worth what I'm trying to protect with the child support?

[B]

Correct. Yep, that's what I was gonna say.

[A]

If you're paying $100,000 to lawyers, but you're only getting 40,000 worth of child support over the next however many years, I'd say it's time to cut your losses.

[B]

Yep, totally.

[A]

Because they can just keep dragging this out and dragging this out to try to mess you over.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's just. It's a gross game and you're using a child as, like, a chess piece, which is extra gross to me. So just, like, it's hard if you.

[B]

Need the money, which you should pay 100%. Yes. And what's hard is if you're on the other side of that and you need the child support money to help. You know what I mean? Like, you're making an income.

[A]

That's a big factor.

[B]

That's so hard. But to your point, if the lawyers are costing you more, you're going to come out net negative.

[A]

Especially if you're in debt to the lawyers to the tune of 50,100. I mean, we've heard some crazy stories on the Ramsey show.

[B]

Yes. And. And again, I think the law can try to do so much. But when we've taken calls on the show where it's like, yeah, the other spouse, like, doesn't pay for a year. Right. And they're supposed to all the things. But, like, it is. It's. That's a hard one. But I would say you. You can look at the math on this to see what the lawyers are costing you versus the child support payment.

[A]

And don't do the math with the lawyers because they'll charge you for that time.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Do it on your own.

[B]

All right, next up, what's the absolute worst way to pay off debt?

[A]

Is this a trick question? I guess the worst way would be to not pay at all or to just, like, make minimum payments.

[B]

Oh, that's good. I was going to say use some, like, cash advance to try to get extra money to pay on the debt, but you're going deeper in debt somewhere else. That would be the worst.

[A]

Yeah. The big thing is the worst way is to just move the debt around thinking you've done something that's actually the scariest.

[B]

Yes to go.

[A]

Like. Well, I did a debt consolidation loan, and so I feel better. Or like the interest rate's a little lower. Whatever it is. What I found is that when you move seven debts into one big debt, it's actually harder to pay off. It's hard to do the debt snowball method because they're not separated. You can't do smallest to largest when it's just one large one.

[B]

That's right. Yep. So I would say that I think that's good. I think that's probably the worst way.

[A]

Don't move it around. Just go through it.

[B]

What's that? We're going on a bear hunt. We're gonna get you.

[A]

Who's hunting bears? Is this a child's book?

[B]

You don't. I'm not scared. Gotta go over it. The river, all the things. You just quoted. A child's book, George. You didn't even know it.

[A]

I had no idea. There's a kid's book where they go on a bear hunt.

[B]

Y' all haven't heard the bear hunt. We're going on a bear hunt. We're gonna catch a big one. I'm not afraid or I'm not scared. The river. The big, cold river. Can't go over it. Can't go under it. We gotta go through it. Swishy, swashy, swishy, swashy, swishy.

[A]

At every turn, I'm like, where will this story go next?

[B]

I know.

[A]

And then.

[B]

And then you get. Yeah, you go up the forest. The big, dark forest. Can't go over it. Can't go. You gotta go through it. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. Cause you're sad.

[A]

This is for children. It's a survival song I did not hear.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

The bear hunt. What's it called?

[B]

Look at that. Look at that. That's the bear hunt book.

[A]

Who wrote it?

[B]

We had that when we were kids. George. This is a classic tennis court. And then you get to the cave.

[A]

School did you grow up in? Didn't you go to Brentwood?

[B]

Then you get to the cave. Can't go over it. Can't go under it. Now we gotta go through it. Shh.

[A]

Why is there a cave near a forest?

[B]

Oh, no. Big bulgy eyes. It's a bear run. Go out of the cave. Crunch. Shit. Through the forest. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. Through the river. Swishy, swashy, swishy, swashy. Through the mud. Scrunch, scrunch, scrunch.

[A]

And it keeps.

[B]

To the house. Close the door or no, open the door through the house upstairs, you know, and then go, oh, we're never going on a bear hunt again. I'll buy it for Mia.

[A]

That's the end of the song.

[B]

It's the book. Oh my gosh.

[A]

It's not a song.

[B]

I'm gonna buy it for Mia.

[A]

I'm glad it's not a song.

[B]

No, but you just said, can't go over it, can't go under it. Gotta go through that debt. And it triggered bear hunt.

[A]

It triggered so much, so much trauma that we don't even have time to unpack today.

I'm still thinking about.

[B]

This is a kids will love this kids book.

[A]

The dark forest, the big bulgy eyes. The kids love it.

[B]

It's a bear.

[A]

Okay. Wow. This is what you can't get on another show. Oh, here's some financial. No, this is what you get. You learn new kid songs.

[B]

You're welcome. All right, next.

61 with student loans and needing to save for retirement help.

[A]

Okay, there's a lot of follow up I have here. Are they your loans or they like a parent plus loan that you, you know, signed up for for your own children? If so, I would try to get that kid to pay back what they owed. If you guys agreed they would pay it. If they're your loans and you need to save for retirement, getting rid of the loans is paramount because that payment could be used to then invest.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So make it a priority to get out of the debt. Don't invest anything. Right now you're trying to do too much at once and you're not going to make progress on any of it.

[B]

Yep. And in a situation like this, like when you, you are in your early 60s still with consumer debt, the span of working is going to extend. So I think there is like a. You're going to be working longer than you want to. Probably than you want to. Yes. Just to get all this cleaned up, to get some income in to save for retirement. All of it. So yeah, I think that's. That's the road ahead. That's the truth.

That is so hard. I know. But that's why student loans are so frustrating. Because it's an industry that works so against the person. But having an industry that works for you, like if your bank worked for you when it comes to your financial journey, that would be the most incredible thing ever. And we have that. George with Fairwinds Credit Union, y', all, they are an incredible credit union that you get to bank with. And there's a smart checking and Savings bundle that you can sign up for. They like package together for people going through the baby steps. And they are Ramsey fans. We are fans of them. George and I both have accounts. We use it. And I love my debit card. It says debt is normal, be weird. It's like a Ramsey branded debit card. It's awesome and it is incredible. It's an easy banking experience. And again, the heart behind it is what I love is that they truly want to work with people that have big financial goals and they want a legacy for their family. It's like a really big picture for them and we love that. So being able to partner with them and for them to be a sponsor, we love. So Fairwinds Credit union, make sure to check them out.

[A]

And because they're a credit union, they're owned by their members, not by Wall Street. So they're not going to nickel and dime you trying to increase shareholder value. They actually want to see you win. So get started today. They make it super easy. Just go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey or use the link in the description below.

[B]

All right, next, George. Let's see. Okay, I'm on baby step one. That means they're saving for $1,000 for their starter emergency fund. And my company only matches 1% of retirement contributions. Is that all I should contribute right now?

[A]

The real answer, you should contribute 0% right now. Because you got a priority right now. If something happened, you would be going deeper into debt to cover that emergency. So get that thousand dollars emergency fund, knock out all of your consumer debt, get your baby step three done, which is your fully funded emergency fund. And then you won't be investing a measly 1%. You're gonna be investing 15%. Think about that.

[B]

That's what's amazing. So that's why I do love the way the order of the baby steps are because some people kind of freak out. Cause they're like, wait, what? There's free money and I should just do the employer match. But that's the thing, is most people are only investing like 4% of their income. But. But if you tackle a goal like getting out of debt and all of your focus and energy and money is going to that thing, you're going to wipe it out so much faster. Which is incredible because you freed up as much money as you can to do that. And then when you get to the point to invest, you get to invest 15%, like more than double than what most people do. So you're going to have plenty for retirement. So pausing it for a few years to pay off debt. In the long term, it's not going to hurt you. It's actually going to help you because you're going to have more money of your income freed up to invest.

[A]

Yeah. Otherwise you stay on this journey where you're like, well, I'm making some progress on retirement. Retirement at 1%. I'm making some progress on the debt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Some progress on my savings. You got to be focused when you're building that foundation and then you can kind of like put your foot off the gas and enjoy life a little bit more and invest way more.

[B]

Yes. Okay, so that lines up with the next question a little bit. Should you pull money out of investments to throw at debt?

[A]

The big caveat here. I would if it's non retirement investments, because those retirement investments, you pull that money out, it's like taking out a loan at 35% interest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're going to get penalized, you're going to pay income tax, you're going to pay the 10% penalty. So I would never take money out of investments to pay off debt for retirement. Yeah. If you were like on the verge of bankruptcy or foreclosure, maybe then and only then would you even consider it. But no, use your future income. Use any liquid savings you have. Use any non retirement assets that you can. Yes.

[B]

If you do have stock, like company stock from an old company, or you have some index funds or mutual funds. Yes. You can cash those out. Um, yeah, you'll pay taxes on them, but you won't have that penalty that you will for specifically retirement investments. So leave those alone. Anything else? Go ahead and cash out. Throw it the debt and yeah, do.

[A]

Not touch that retirement. And unplugging that investment growth in those retirement accounts, you will just be very upset with yourself later going, I didn't give up 35 grand I took out. I gave up half a million. Because that's what it would have grown to if I left it alone for 30 years.

[B]

Yep. How quickly it grows, that's great.

[A]

All right, next one. How do I negotiate my salary? Best practices question mark.

This is a tough one because, like negotiate feels like you got to go in defenses up, ready to fight.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[A]

Which rarely works out when you're talking to your leader or your employer or whoever it is. I found the best way to negotiate is to go in emotionless with just logic and facts and talk about value and be as specific as you can. Not just like, here's how I feel. I feel Like, I'm underpaid.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Go in with some actual data and do it in a logical way where you're just wanting to collaborate 100%.

[B]

And I would show work history of like, what you've been doing. Right. The hours you're clocking, the projects you've been working on, where you've added value to a team or a situation. Like, all of those things are helpful too, with that data. Not just the marketplace data of what people are being paid outside that company, but also like, what you're contributing to. So. Yep.

[A]

And I love, I talk with my friend Ken Coleman about this and he always says, let's work on a growth track and a growth plan because then it becomes collaboration. We're both looking in the same direction. And then you have something to hold yourself to. Cause part of the frustration with not getting what you think you should be paid is just a lack of clarity. Like, oh, this is what it takes to be a senior analyst versus a junior analyst. I need to be doing these things. So do those things and keep track of it all. Stay accountable to it, and you can keep your leader accountable.

[B]

And let me say too, best practices for most businesses is you should be getting an annual raise, like, at the minimum. So if you're not getting that red.

[A]

Flag, in my opinion, like, just like a cost of living adjustment versus like a promotion may happen later, it might happen every year, but at least some kind of raise. Unless you're underperforming in your kra. And so again, having clear objectives laid out and that might be on you, might be on your leader. And so just get clarity of like, what does it take to grow in this role? And then you can work on those things. Oh, P.S. kRA stands for key results areas. And it's something we use here at Ramsey. You might hear like, okrs, whatever. There's all different kinds. But it really just means here's your responsibilities and here's what your leader will hold you accountable to as part of your job.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Gets tactical.

[B]

All right, next. How can I feel safe financially as a stay at home mom?

[A]

Ooh, that's a real one. This is about the vulnerability of I don't bring an income.

[B]

Okay, well, I went two different ways. I don't know. I'm gonna go ab ready. Situation A is if you were working and you want to be a stay at home mom and you just became one, but you guys are down in income. Oh, how do we feel? Okay, so if you do, if you guys are in that situation and one person Wants to stay home. I always say to priority practice living on one income, like, even while the other one's still working. Just like, bank that to the side and be like, hey, this is our reality. Can we live within this and actually live in it? Right. Not just numbers. Like, we are in the month doing it. And that helps the transition for stay at home moms to go from the workforce home to one income. So that's a safety element of, like, am I gonna feel safe with that transition? And once I'm there, are we gonna be okay? So I think that's really important to live out. And then the latter would be, yes. If I am a stay at home mom and husband's working, how do I feel? Safe? I mean, I think that means that. I mean, you have access to everything. You have all the information, you have all of the say that your say is no less than his say in what goes on in the household and how money is spent or saved or given. You bring as much value to the table as that. So there's that safety element to know that you guys are collaborating. And then if something is going awry, from a marriage perspective, you know, we get these calls too, which is so heartbreaking and so difficult. But for some people. Yeah. If the marriage starts to dissolve, you think, okay, what's my next steps? Right. And then that's a whole other game plan. But just as a stay at home mom, to feel safe, I would want knowledge and a voice into the situation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For me personally, I don't know, just channel your stay at home mom.

[A]

I mean, I have a stay at home wife, and so I'm trying to go, like, what would she be experiencing? I do think the transparency is a big deal. Like having joint accounts. Like, my name is on everything. I have access to everything. A transaction cannot happen where Whitney's, like, I had no idea. Like, she can see it all.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And so that's a very important piece. And if the spouse, the. The dad, you know, or the husband is like, no, you can't see that. Well, that's a huge red flag. We need to dig into, like, what is happening with this financial infidelity.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That he is so unwilling to show you or to give you access so that that's a control thing. That can become financial abuse.

[B]

Tony, stop that. Tony.

[A]

No, thank you. Tony. Tony. Classic Tony behavior. And then of course, there's like, the law. And so if you go to court and there's a divorce, there's going to be alimony. If, you know, you didn't have an income and he was supporting the family and now you're on your own.

[B]

And for a lot of states, it's 50. I mean, for a lot of states, if it's like a commingling of finances, regardless of who brings it in, like, yeah, it's state by state for sure. But God, gets really complicated. We're not lawyers, but there are. You do have rights. Let me just say that you have rights.

[A]

Yes. Now, will he actually pay? I hope so. Otherwise he's a scumbag.

[B]

But yeah, that goes back to like the first question. Remember that?

[A]

Exactly. So that's a tough one. But I would say a lot of. I'm trying to phrase this delicately. Some of it is self imposed as far as, like, feeling like, well, I don't contribute financially to the family and therefore I feel like I'm less valuable or I don't have as much say because, well, he makes all the money. And I just, I rebuke that. I don't like that at all. My wife, George, just as much vote when it comes to finances, if not more. And so I value her, I respect her. And so I don't see it as like, well, I make the money, so I should get to do this or she doesn't get to do that. That is abuse.

[B]

Well, that and it's a. And it's an immature man. Like, it's a boy. So crazy.

[A]

It's a boy.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

That's. No, I feel like man is generous in that.

[B]

That's fair. Thank you. I appreciate that. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Got me riled up, but you rolled up.

[B]

You know what I get riled up about, George? Internet safety.

[A]

Yeah, talk about stay at home mom feeling safe. What about everyone feeling safe online?

[B]

To feel safe online. That's why we love and use Delete Me. Because it goes in and removes your information from the Internet. Because our names and addresses and cell phones and kids names and parents names, I mean, everything's out there that hackers and all of them can figure out together. And you're like, whoa, whoa. And these data brokers will take all of that and then even sell your data. And that puts you at risk for scams and fraud and all this stuff, and we don't want that. So removing your data from the Internet is so important. And DeleteMe helps you do that.

[A]

And they show their work. I mean, they'll send you a report every few months going, hey, here's where we found you. We removed you here. Here's how much time we saved You. And it's one of my favorite emails I get every month is that report of all.

[B]

I mean, seriously warms my heart. And the fact that it's actual people doing it too. It's not just like bots. Like, it's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. And I use it for my whole family. So I add in. Here's my. The kids, here's their information. If you find any of that, delete it. You can even send a custom removal request. So if you guys want to get a sweet discount, go to joindeleteme.com smartmoney and you'll get 20% off their annual plans. Or drop a link in the show notes as well.

[B]

Beautiful. All right, George, Can I use money from my 403B for a down payment on a home? So a 403B is like a 401K in the business world, but usually for like nonprofits, teachers. Teachers, yes, all that. Yeah. So there's like another option for retirements that are 403bs. Would you use it for a down payment on home?

[A]

No.

[B]

No.

[A]

I'm assuming this person is not, you know, 60 plus years old and therefore they can't use it without getting that penalty. So again, like we mentioned earlier, this is like taking out a loan at 35% interest. It's just not worth it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so if you're struggling, find another way to save up the down payment.

[B]

100%. Yeah. Just think, don't use retirement savings for non retirement things. Like, genuinely, the only advice we ever say it's to use to cash anything out is if you're facing like a foreclosure or a bankruptcy and you need money to help get you out of that situation. That's the only time other than that, don't touch it.

[A]

So I would dig in and go, why are you looking for a shortcut? Like, where's the lack of patience coming from? The urgency, Like, I get it. You want to get in a house. You feel like the market's always shifting. But the solution is not to rob your future. It is to make changes in the present to get there faster.

[B]

That's good. All right, George, what's the best place to hold cash? $200,000 to fund METS School over the next three years. High yield savings account, question mark.

[A]

I'm so impressed. This person has $200,000. You know, rare.

[B]

That is well done.

[A]

Most people just like stumble into med school and go, oh, gosh, it's going to cost half a million dollars. Guess I'll take out loans. So this person has Done a really good job. Maybe they had family help. I don't want to assume.

[B]

Sure, but.

[A]

But what an amazing privilege that is to have 200 grand to fund it. Where would I keep that money for? If it's a three year time horizon, I. I would go High Yield Savings Account.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

You'll make, you know, three and a half percent. You might miss out on some market returns, but you also don't have the volatility of, like, the market was down negative 20% this year and I need to pay for tuition.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You can't risk that.

[B]

Yeah. There's a safety. Especially if, you know, there's a purchase coming in five years or less. They're like, oh, no, we're going to make this. Play it safe. High Yield Savings Account. It's great. Yep. Not volatile. You'll get that three and a half percent, which is fine.

[A]

Stable.

[B]

Yeah. But if there's money that you're, that you have and you know, like, okay, we may not need this for like, five, six, seven years. I would invest it then. Because you have time to write out the market and actually make 12, 13, 14, 20%. God forbid we say that, but yes. I mean, the market's done great the last three years.

[A]

If you just invested in the US stock market, you'd be up well over 20%.

[B]

Isn't that crazy? Yes.

[A]

So y' all go look your 401ks and prove me wrong.

[B]

Prove me wrong.

[A]

Unless you're invested in bonds or something. You're like, I'm not getting 20%.

[B]

My CDs. My CDs aren't.

[A]

Yeah, Grandma, get out of bonds. What are you doing?

[B]

Come on.

[A]

All right, next up. What should my net worth be before buying super bowl tickets?

[B]

Oh, do you have any desire to do the Super Bowl, Sporty George over there?

[A]

Borderline zero. Because here's what I found. It's not about the sport. The experience watching at home is superior. Yeah, I don't need the, like, energy of the crap. It's just people yelling in my ear and you're staring down. You're looking at a screen to actually watch the game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're probably missing out on all the ads. You get the halftime show, which, sure. I'd just rather watch it on the screen.

[B]

Okay, tell me this. Buffalo chicken dip at home, A college national championship. Do something different for you?

[A]

Yes. Okay. Those are actual fans. My hot take is that super bowl fans are like, whatever. I'm just rich for. I know rich people. I got to go to the Super Bowl.

[B]

I agree, I agree those aren't real sports fans, but no offense, College national championship. That would be fun.

[A]

That would be electric. And you know they're going to do something crazy after, like they're going to tear down the goalposts.

[B]

The goalposts of the river.

[A]

Yeah. And I get to witness a crime, which I think is a cool thing.

[B]

Go balls. Okay. So when it comes to these experiences that are big, like a Super bowl or whatever, it may be a Taylor.

[A]

Swift concert, Backstreet Boys at the Sphere. Not that you have done any of.

[B]

Great experiences, it's definitely one of those feelings of like, it's a, it's a quote my dad always says, but I think it's a good one. Emotionally. It's like the burn it in the middle of the table. Meaning, like, if it's gone test, like if it's just gone out of your account today, are you okay? And if you're like, oh my gosh, no, I would not be okay because I don't even know how much, how much they cost.

[A]

I was going to Google it.

[B]

Look it up, look it up.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Because I mean, yeah, if that's going to stress you out and you need that money and you feel something emotional like, oh my God, I know. We, I, if that was out of my account today, oh, that makes me nervous, then you can't do it. But if you're like, oh, yeah, I don't think we would notice, we can keep on moving. You keep on moving, Go.

[A]

And if you budget, you pay for it in cash, you're not going into debt. It's not this impulsive last minute thing where like, I didn't plan for it, but I'm going to do it anyways, I'm totally fine with it, regardless of your net worth. And again, if it really gives you a pit in your stomach because you're like, I make 40 grand a year and I have financial goals and I want to buy a house. And ten grand on tickets feels insane. That's your gut and spirit saying, don't do it. You're going to regret it. Cheapest resale seats, $2,800. This is based on the 2025 Super Bowl. Some of the most premium seats, prime location, close to the field, listed as high as 25 grand. Official package options started around 6, 700.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That doesn't include your travel, your lodging, totally eating, all the other things that go along with it. So for those reasons, I just, I just don't see many experiences that would be worth it. Like maybe once in your lifetime.

[B]

Sure. Just check it off a bucket list.

[A]

Let me just find a friend who's like, hey, you want to come to the Super Bowl 100?

[B]

We got to find those friends.

[A]

Become friends with wealthy people. How long do I need to harp on this, guys? That's the life hack.

[B]

Get connections.

[A]

Don't do it maliciously. Just find wealthy people that you would get along with and then infiltrate yourself into their life. It's not that hard.

[B]

Oh my gosh. All right, next. My husband and I are newlyweds. Should I be added to his current personal and business accounts?

[A]

Yes. I mean personal, yes, business. Unless you're a part of the business, you don't need to be on a business account. Like the IRS is going, hey, you're not.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

You know what I mean? If you're not an employee of the business.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

If it's a like a husband, wife, do it.

[B]

You're both own. If you both own it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But yeah, if it's his, yeah, that's fair. Yeah.

[A]

But remember, like if you take out business debt and spouse signs their name, that's Yalls debt. Like you're responsible for that. So just know that going into it. But. But yes, as newlyweds, that's a great time. Like get back from the honeymoon and go down to the bank or you know, do this online and make everything a joint account. And again, that's going to make your wealth building journey better, easier, more transparent, more accountability. And if there's things where like, well, I don't feel comfortable with that, get to the root of why one or both of you is uncomfortable joining accounts.

[B]

And joining your life. Yep. So it doesn't have to be, I guess his personal. You guys could open up a new one if you wanted to. Just to.

[A]

I just switched mine. I had a personal checking and I made it a joint. So it was the same account number but Whitney got added to it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So that was easy. I didn't have to like get all new things. She did, but she just kind of closed down her side, you know what I mean?

[B]

Totally. Yes. And joined over and moved over. All right, next. Is it dumb to pay off my house with some of my current savings? I would have $5,000 left and no other debt.

Dumb is not. That's a strong word. I wouldn't do it. $5,000 left. I would have a six month emergency fund before I did that, like I would have some good savings. But if you had money just to pay off your house. Yeah.

[A]

You're so close. I think within a few months you could pull the trigger. Because here's the other thing. Your emergency fund gets lower if you don't have a mortgage payment anymore. So I would crunch the numbers on like what a 3, 4 month emergency fund would look like without having that mortgage payment because that'll reduce your expenses. That might get you closer. So that's my caveat to go, you're closer than you think. If you do that math and then build it back up to six months, if that's where you're comfortable. I prefer six months, personally, especially as you get older. You're just like, why fool with it?

[B]

Yeah, 100%. I love it. George. You know what I've been loving recently is the Cuddle blanket from Cozy Earth. It is like winter time. And this blanket, it is weighted, it is heavy, it is massive. So soft and it's incredible. And Cozy Earth has blankets, it has sheets, it has bedding, it has clothes. Everything you need to make a cozy winter Cozy Earth has.

[A]

I pulled that thing out and I used it with my toddler with Mia. And she had the best time because she's never felt anything that soft.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she loves like a teddy bear. So imagine like the softest teddy bear, but it's like, I don't know, queen or king size blankets. Yes.

[B]

It's massive. I know.

[A]

So we had a great time.

[B]

I love it. I know. So Cozy Earth. Their quality is incredible, you guys. And everything that you buy, I promise, from like the fit of the clothes to the softness of the sheets, like the bamboo stuff I personally love. But all of it, it is, it's incredible. You're not going to be disappointed with Cozy Earth products, so make sure to go to cozyearth.com smartmoney click the link below and you can save up to 40% off.

[A]

And that includes the new soft wash cotton sheets which I just threw on there. You know, I'm a bamboo guy, but there's something about this.

[B]

You like the cotton?

[A]

Yeah. It's got that lived in feel.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, it's lighter weight than the bamboo, naturally breathable, easy to launder. So I love all of that.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

So check that out too. While you're at it, just go to cozyearth.com smartmoney or use the link in the description and use promo code Smart money at checkout.

[B]

Hey George, I think we have time for two more. Okay, you ready? If I'm on baby step seven, why can't I lease a car? If that's where I want to spend my money.

[A]

They make a good point. You can do dumb decisions and stomach it for a long time. Like, if you have.

[B]

You can probably afford some dumb decisions in baby step seven. Yeah, mathematically.

[A]

Well, Rachel, you have a golf membership, and that costs money, right? What's the difference with me leasing a car, Right?

[B]

Yes. So it's just the idea of the lease, of not owning it. There's so many. It's a very complicated process to me. Like, a part of me is like, just buy a great car and drive it for a few years. Sell it, get another car. Like, you can keep upgrading cars, changing cars, but yeah, if that's where you want to put the money, you can. But mathematically, it's the most expensive way to finance a vehicle. You almost. It'd be cheaper to even just take out a loan, right?

[A]

Well, yeah. You just never own anything. You're just renting a car very expensively, with a ton of restrictions and prepaying all the depreciation. So if that's what you want to do, that's fine. But I would. Don't tell people you're on the Ramsey plan with your car lease, okay? Because you still owe people money.

[B]

Like, you got to give that car reputation, George. Way to protect that reputation.

[A]

You got it. You owe. I mean, there's a buyout amount that you would owe to actually own that car. So my. My pushback to you is, if you're on baby step seven, why can't you save up and just buy a car you like?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you're a net worth millionaire, you can even get it new if you want and pay all the depreciation yourself. That's on you. But do it the smart way. Delayed gratification.

[B]

Yep. All right, last one, George. This is fun. What would you do if you got $500,000 tomorrow?

[A]

That's a big question. Okay, I'm.

[B]

Half a million dollars.

[A]

I'm trying to think of, like, not like, what would like smart, fiscally responsible George do, but like, current. Just gut reaction. What would I do with 500 grand?

[B]

I've got some, so I would give some away.

I would. We'd probably fund a rental flip because that's what Winston's doing these days. So we'd probably do that.

I would want to take a fun vacation and then I'd throw, you know, a little, like, I don't know, 50 grand in the old index fund.

[A]

Oh. Invest a little.

[B]

Just see what happens, you know, Just watch it grow. That's just Off. That's just off the cuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm going on a bear.

[A]

Swishy, swashy, swishy, swashy on the bear.

[B]

That's what I would do.

[A]

Big, dark, fortis. Bulgy, big eyes. Everyone's going to die.

[B]

I'm going to Amazon that book to your house.

[A]

I don't know if I can read that. My toddler's going to have nightmares.

[B]

No, it's cute.

[A]

The big bulgy eyes is cute.

[B]

And the big sharp claws. Yeah, it keeps going. Okay. What would you do, George? 5.

[A]

What would I do? I think emotionally right now I'd need to like invest half of it. Like I'd fully fund my kids college funds. Cuz doing that now at their age.

[B]

Feel great.

[A]

It's going to be plenty.

[B]

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

[A]

So I would do that. I would put a bunch, like outside of retirement as sort of a bridge account. So for fun money later on, I probably would build a pool in the backyard.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So probably sink. I don't know what that costs. You know, 150 grand into like redoing the entire backyard with like landscaping and the pool. That would be a frivolous, fun thing to do. Vacation.

[B]

I would buy. I would buy an suv.

[A]

Oh, are you an SUV mom now?

[B]

No. I mean, I'm a van mom, but.

[A]

You'Re trading in the van to get.

[B]

If I had $500,000.

[A]

Yeah. What would you get? Would you get like a luxury suv?

[B]

Yes. I mean, if this is like money just given to me.

[A]

Yeah. Left to your own devices, what SUV would Rachel Cruz buy? Like a Range Rover?

[B]

No, I'd go Lexus.

[A]

Like the gx.

[B]

Like the boxier was Escaladed. The. The Escalade? Yeah. That's what all the Brentwood moms drive.

[A]

Okay, no offense, I didn't know we were still doing Escalades.

[B]

No. Oh, yeah. Different colors. We got reds, we got blacks, we got white. We got. We got all the colors of the Escalades.

[A]

A red Escalade?

[B]

Yeah, like a deep dark red. It's actually really pretty. Yeah.

[A]

Like a maroon.

[B]

Yeah, got it.

[A]

Need to Google it to see for myself.

[B]

Yeah. But the new Lexus, that kind of looks like a Land Rover.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I think that is the gx.

[B]

I think those are so cool. I think they're too small for our family, though. We'd have to go bigger. But I would get a. I would get a luxury suv. I would. I'd retire the van. I always said the van was a five Year car.

[A]

Can you give us the Odyssey?

[B]

Yeah, I would do that. I'll take an Odyssey. That's my charity. I would do that for you. I would get. That's part of my giving.

[A]

Let it be known I get to not if, but when Rachel somehow stumbles upon $500,000, I will be gifted a van. I can't wait.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

Oh, that was fun. All right, George, what's your takeaway from the episode?

[A]

My takeaway number one. People have really good questions that span the gamut of, like, you know, they're trying to get out of debt. Like, they're trying to do the right thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that gives me great hope.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Like, there's not a lot of, I would say, dumb questions on here where it's like, trying to justify. Other than leasing the car.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Which is kind of like justifying bad behavior.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People want to do the right thing with their money. They just need some guidance. And so that's why I love the job that we get to do every day on the Ramsey show. Speaking, writing a book, hosting the podcast. It's just fun to, like, help people navigate this. And we're not gurus. We don't have all the right answers, but it just feels good steering you away from the money traps and towards something that is reliable.

[B]

That's good. Yes. Yep. Yeah, that's my thing. And regardless of what stage you are in, financially or season of life or wherever it may take you, like, you can always make wiser decisions with money or dumber decisions. And you get to pick. Right. And sometimes the dumber decisions feel better in the moment because it's easier. But pushing through and actually doing something long term with your money and having that plan, I think is important.

[A]

It makes me think, what's the proverb? The multitude of counsel?

[B]

There is wisdom.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is that us? And that's where a multitude of counselors.

[A]

When you make decisions in a vacuum, generally they're worse. But when you go like, hey, I'm gonna go to trusted people who I look up to or a step ahead of me, that's gonna make it always better. But if you go to people who are broke, who you know will justify your decision, you're gonna find your answer. So it really depends on where you look. And I think finding wise counsel and, you know, the Ramsey plan is never gonna do you wrong. Like, you can try to get rich quick. Good luck. Our plan works 100% of the time.

[B]

If you do it.

[A]

And so as conservative as we may Be the reason we tell people to do all of this is because you're likely going to succeed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's that simple.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

That's my takeaway.

[B]

All right, before we get to our guiltiest charged question, George, what's the drink? What's the. What's the rating?

[A]

This is a Christmas slush mocktail.

Christmas slush mocktail.

[B]

And I'm going four out of 10. I'm sorry.

[A]

I love going.

[B]

I love the texture.

[A]

I'm gonna go three out of ten. It tastes like if you took a. You know, like the juicy juice that you'd give to a child. Take, like, the cranberry version, but then add, like, just, like, lemon juice on top to make it even more tart and sour. And I love tart and sour. Like, I grew up on warheads.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Love a warhead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is, like, a sad attempt.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I got a warhead.

[B]

But I'm really thankful for all the effort.

[A]

But you know what?

[B]

That was put in.

[A]

Kudos to the crew. They put a lot of effort in. And to make anything a slush, that's hard.

[B]

Genuinely. The, like, do they have a.

[A]

You guys have a blender you're using?

God bless. Kelly brought her blender from home.

[B]

That's why. That's why it was a four, not a zero for me. Because the texture was amazing. It really was. The slush was really good. And it stayed. There's still slushyness on top.

[A]

Yeah. No, the foam is. She Be foamy.

[B]

She. It's great. Listen to that. It sounds like snow.

[A]

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. All right, this has cranberry juice, orange juice, pineapple juice, lime juice, sparkling water, even. And none of that was enough to save it.

Cause at face value, you're like, how could that be a bad drink? I'm still confounded by the product, the cost. Not cheap. $1.40.

[B]

Oh, wow. One of our cocktails on the show was just like, a quarter more.

[A]

I know. You could have had alcohol for a quarter more. Kids. It's 1950s pricing. Hey, if you want to try for yourself, maybe you can figure it out. Maybe we just messed it up. The recipe's in the show notes. Let us know in the comments what went wrong.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And give it a try this weekend. You can even have the kids try it out. Maybe they like sour red juice.

[B]

All right, now it's time for guilty.

You've never missed that, George.

[A]

My brain was looking at the question.

[B]

In all of our times Doing it.

[A]

I got nervous at the question.

[B]

Here we go. You ready? Now it's time for guilty. Guilty as charged. And this is where we ask each other a guilty as charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take. Take a sip. All right, George, ready for the question?

[A]

I'm nervous.

[B]

Have you ever made a financial decision that Dave would call stupid? Stupid? Or have you made one that you didn't share with Dave because you knew he would disapprove? Wow.

[A]

Okay. As someone who is kin to Dave Ramsey, I feel like you have some inside knowledge of things you didn't share.

Because you and Dave are financial decisions. I mean, you're a lot alike in ways with your spending.

[B]

You know, it's not a secret because it's out there. But the Tesla, I definitely did not, not a fan, tell him that I was buying an electric car.

[A]

Wow. Not that he would have, like, cared necessarily, but he vehemently has made fun of our vehicles for, like, forever. Potentially exploding or lighting on fire. Because he read one article.

[B]

Because it's a computer. You're driving a computer.

[A]

You know, unlike, you know, conservativeman biz or something that was like, Teslas are, you know, fire starters. I'm like, okay, like, let's.

[B]

I think only, like, two blew up, and that's it. Do you know how many real cars blow up on the side of the road? Real cars that, like, have.

[A]

Many.

[B]

I mean, not real. I mean, it's real. The Tesla's real. But, like, oil and gas cars.

[A]

Is this the same reason he didn't like you watching Fern Gully growing up?

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Is it because, like, people who buy electric vehicles think they're better than everyone because they're trying to conserve their environment?

[B]

Yes. I think if there's me, I don't know, but that's.

[A]

I'm trying to see, like, you know, if there's a red spot.

[B]

There probably is a connection.

[A]

If I was the detective.

[B]

Childhood Rachel, they couldn't watch Ferngle buys a Tesla and your dad still doesn't approve.

[A]

Oh, I have one.

[B]

I think it is all connected.

[A]

So I'm guilty of this because I bought a used Tesla and Dave makes fun of both of us. So he would not approve. He doesn't like it. He makes fun of it. He rode in the car with me for the Millionaires and Cars Getting Coffee segment and made fun of me for it. I told him how brave he was for taking the ride with me in a car that could explode at any moment. Evil Knievel, the other one that I think you disapprove of is when we got our French bulldogs. I got pet insurance.

[B]

Oh, that's a good one.

[A]

Which, like, it's a big Ramsey thing. Like, hey, like, don't do pet insurance. It's a ripoff. It's a waste of money.

[B]

But you said.

[A]

No, no, I said, George wants it. So Dave will say, hey, we have, you know, term life because Sharon wants it. Swi.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

We don't need it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't make sense financially. We. We're just going to do it.

[B]

We're just going to do it.

[A]

That's how I felt about pet insurance.

[B]

Yes. That's fair because I knew.

[A]

And here's my. Here's my hot take. I got, like, the highest deductible plan, lowest premium, because I never wanted to have. I don't want to have to make the decision if there's a $10,000 surgery of do we just put them down Instead, I go, we live to fight another day because I'll pay the deductibles and move on with my life.

[B]

Moving, moving and shaking.

[A]

So to me, it's worth it in the budget. I don't have a lot of hobbies, as you guys may have guessed. And so I just put the money towards, you know, protecting my family.

Call me a terrible human. Good luck.

[B]

What a savior. Get that cape out.

[A]

So that's the one. And I just haven't canceled it. Cause at this point, like, getting new insurance if I ever have to again would be wildly expensive.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because now they have, like, few spinal bones, you know.

[B]

Yeah. We don't want to get them re examined.

[A]

They're only breaking more over time.

[B]

100% they are.

[A]

So there you go.

[B]

So good.

[A]

That's a good one.

[B]

That's a good one. That's a good one. All right, if you have a great guilty as charged question, please DM us at Rachel Cruz and oregocamel. We are looking for those. And if you love this episode, make sure to leave a review. And also check out our episode, our unfiltered takes on your real life money dilemmas coming up next. And we'll see you guys next Thursday on an all new episode of smart money Happy hour.