Smart Women, Smart Power

Episode: A Fresh Perspective on National Security Policy

Release Date: October 24, 2025
Host: CSIS | Center for Strategic and International Studies
Guests: Kathleen McInnis (outgoing host, scholar), Nina Easton (founder, journalist)

Overview

This special episode marks a pivotal moment for Smart Women, Smart Power (SWSP)—a reflective look at a decade of progress elevating women’s voices in national security, business, and global affairs. Founder Nina Easton returns to interview outgoing host Kathleen McInnis, examining the podcast’s evolution, the importance of gender in national security analysis, and standout stories from years of conversations with extraordinary female leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Mission of Smart Women, Smart Power

• Genesis:

  • Co-founded by Nina Easton and the late Andrew Schwartz, who was instrumental in recognizing the potential of podcasts for CSIS and SWSP.
  • The initiative started as a storytelling platform to amplify women's voices in national security, combining live events and podcasting.
  • Easton reflects:

    “We were the number two iTunes university download on our second year… He was technologically forward looking, which really helped the SWSP platform.” (01:57)

• Evolving the Mission:

  • Kathleen McInnis is credited with bringing robust data and analysis, pushing beyond inspiration to validate the impact of women’s leadership with evidence.
  • Easton praises McInnis:

    “Kathleen has taken on that task, and that's what we're going to discuss quite a bit today. But, Kathleen, congratulations on the enormous success of Smart Women, Smart Power under your leadership.” (04:09)

2. Integrating Gender Analysis into National Security Policy

• McInnis’s entry into the gender and security conversation was unexpected, sparked by a 2019 conference briefing on online radicalization, which revealed gendered blind spots in traditional security analysis.

  “Gender really is a blind spot when it comes to national security policy analysis… When we think about national security, we tend to think about bombs and tanks… but where does feminism fit into that?” (05:37)

• The need for data:

  “I was getting frustrated at the lack of data... so, you know, we decided… let's build the data set. I intuitively knew it to be true. But I wanted to build a rich case library where people could start to understand… where having women at the table really did make a difference.” (07:54)

3. Key Findings: Impact of Women’s Leadership in Security Fields

• Diversity Improves Intelligence:

  • Women in leadership create avenues for better intelligence gathering and sharing within organizations.

  • Example: Local women disclosed critical information to a female US official in Darfur that they wouldn’t share with male counterparts.

    “The local women only raised the issue that it was a serious, serious problem. They only felt comfortable raising the issue to a US person because Elizabeth [Shackelford] was a woman.” (09:11)

  • Male and female staff both reported more candidly to female leaders, enhancing decision-making.

    “Organizations with better intelligence and better knowledge, of course they make better decisions.” (10:13)

4. Why Women’s Representation in the Military Matters

• Essential for recruitment and a culture of respect:

  “We can't meet our recruitment and retention goals for our military forces without having women at the table. We just can’t. Women are almost 20% of the force.” (10:47)

  • Debunks myths around unfair advantage via DEI, emphasizing cultures of respect and positive leadership climates over token promotion.

    “The root of all of this is about creating climates, creating leadership cultures of respect for one another.” (11:32)

• Future-Proofing Leadership:

  “Why would you shut out half your talent pipeline to the leadership? … You want a range of voices at the decision making table.” (12:20, paraphrased by Easton)
  “Our job ultimately is providing leaders with the best possible options… you can’t do that if you don’t have the best possible talent around the table that is capable of expressing their minds without fear of retribution.” (12:51)

5. Gender and Authoritarian Regimes

• Dictatorships weaponize gender roles:

  “These authoritarian regimes… create this idea of a golden age history… men need to be hyper masculine… women… no power, back at home, in the kitchen.” (13:47)

  • Using ‘gendered’ propaganda sustains brittle power structures (ex: Taliban, Iranian regime, Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China).
  • Recognizes the strategic opportunity for democracies in understanding and countering these patterns.

  “If our adversaries are using that toolkit… it behooves us to understand that a lot more carefully… see if there's any ways that we can flip the script.” (15:25)

6. Women as Catalysts for Change

• Examples from history:
  • The Taliban’s and Iranian regime’s suppression of women breeds societal cracks and potential for resistance.
  • Historical movements: Argentine Madres de Plaza de Mayo, post-Soviet “Soldiers’ Mothers” in Russia.

  “When the Madres de Dios in Argentina against the junta ask, Where are my sons? … That creates a space for a lot more, a lot of other societal actors to exploit and eventually take down these regimes.” (16:50)

7. Personal Reflections and Memorable Moments

Favorite Conversations

• McInnis highlights the wide range of guests, emphasizing the privilege of facilitating authentic, impactful stories.

  “Every woman taught me so much… Everybody brought their full selves to these conversations. And so I'm just so honored.” (18:19)

Transcendent Wisdom

• Easton’s favorite moment: Christine Lagarde’s surprising answer on the secret to her success—

  “I thought she was going to say something like being a swimmer. And instead she said, love… The love of people around me and the people I care about and the people that I'm doing this for. And…I was really…that was a powerful moment.” (20:23)

Defining Power and Self

• McInnis on the meaning of power:

  “Power to me is authenticity and care… Authenticity… because if you are not your authentic self, it's very hard to lead. And care… with those two building blocks, authenticity and care, I think power is working with others to shape things, hopefully, towards a better future.” (22:47)

Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 01:57 | Nina Easton | “We were the number two iTunes university download on our second year… He was technologically forward looking, which really helped the Smart Women Smart Power platform.” | | 05:37 | Kathleen McInnis | “Gender really is a blind spot when it comes to national security policy analysis... where does feminism fit into that?” | | 09:11 | Kathleen McInnis | “The local women only raised the issue… because Elizabeth was a woman. They didn't feel comfortable talking to men.” | | 10:47 | Kathleen McInnis | “We can't meet our recruitment and retention goals for our military forces without having women at the table. We just can't.” | | 13:47 | Kathleen McInnis | “These authoritarian regimes… create this idea of a golden age history… men need to be hyper masculine… women… no power, back at home, in the kitchen.” | | 16:50 | Kathleen McInnis | “When the Madras de Dios in Argentina against the junta ask, Where are my sons?... That creates a space for a lot more, a lot of other societal actors to exploit and eventually take down these regimes.” | | 18:19 | Kathleen McInnis | “Every woman taught me so much… I'm so honored to have been trusted with… close to 100 conversations.” | | 20:23 | Nina Easton | “I thought she was going to say something like being a swimmer. And instead she said, love… The love of people around me and the people I care about and the people that I'm doing this for.” | | 22:47 | Kathleen McInnis | “Power to me is authenticity and care… If you are not your authentic self, it's very hard to lead and care… with those two building blocks… I think power is working with others to shape things, hopefully, towards a better future.” |

Key Segment Timestamps

• Intro and honoring Andrew Schwartz: 00:00–02:40
• Nina on the founding vision: 01:30–03:48
• Kathleen on reframing gender in security: 04:52–08:37
• Impact of women’s leadership on org intelligence: 08:37–10:30
• Importance of women in military: 10:30–12:44
• Authoritarianism and gender lens: 13:13–16:04
• Women as change agents in oppressive regimes: 16:04–17:58
• Standout conversations: 18:14–19:22
• Defining power: 22:16–23:27

Closing

The episode closes with heartfelt gratitude from both hosts, reflection on the continuing need to define and expand women’s roles in national security, and the affirmation that authenticity and care are foundational for meaningful power and leadership.

Upcoming: Next guest host Emily Harding sits down with Peggy Whitson, VP of Human Space Flight at Axiom Space and former NASA astronaut.

For more, visit www.csis.org and subscribe to Smart Women, Smart Power.