Podcast Summary: Smart Women, Smart Power

Episode Title: An Icelandic Perspective Inside NATO
Date: June 25, 2025
Host: Dr. Kathleen McInnis (A)
Guest: Brynja Hod Oskarsdruther (B), Committee Director at the NATO Parliamentary Assembly

Episode Overview

This episode explores the unique journey of Brynja Hod Oskarsdruther, an Icelandic civilian who forged a career in international security and defense, culminating in significant roles within NATO and the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. The discussion delves into Iceland's contributions to NATO despite not having a standing military, Brynja's experiences deployed in Afghanistan, her current work fostering understanding among NATO lawmakers, and thoughtful reflections on gender and generational shifts in international security.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brynja's Professional Origin Story

• Background in Journalism

  • Started as a journalist in western Iceland, covering local news before gravitating toward foreign affairs and security.
  • Early aspiration to become a war correspondent, later realizing an interest in understanding decision-making within institutions.
  • “I think I've always had this drive to really understand how decision making works... how the decision making happens that ends up often negatively impacting people that are in conflict areas.” (02:34, B)

• Pivot to International Organizations

  • Worked for UNICEF and UN Women, gaining humanitarian experience.
  • Pursued a Master's degree in security studies to understand the origins and endings of wars.
  • “Wars are easier to begin than to end. Fact.” (03:34, B)

2. Intense Early Career Experiences

• Work at Jane’s Defense Intelligence
  • 2016-17: Analyst during a peak of terrorist activity, focusing on terrorism and insurgency.
  • Managed secondhand trauma from exposure to violent imagery.
  • Cultural and organizational support played key roles in handling psychological stress.
  • “It's not... humans don't like watching violence and trauma or shouldn't at least, and it sits with you.” (05:28, B)
  • “If I wouldn't be doing this job, who would be doing it instead? And would that person come in with the same values ... about human rights or... gender...?” (07:17, B)

3. Iceland’s Unique Role in NATO and Deployment to Afghanistan

• Deployment as a Civilian Expert

  • Iceland’s lack of a permanent military leads to deployment of civilian experts via the Icelandic Crisis Response Unit.
  • Brynja’s mission in Afghanistan: Strategic Communications at Resolute Support HQ, starting in August 2018.
  • Role placed her in a NATO “O4 billet,” typically reserved for highly experienced military personnel.
  • “I show up, like, 29, 30 years old, a female civilian from a country that has no cultural or... background ... That was my first time ever being around people in uniform.” (09:01, B)

• Daily Life and Social Dynamics

  • Cultural adjustments in a highly militarized environment; humorous anecdotes about integrating with military personnel.
  • “I like your costume.” – “It’s the uniform, love.” (12:18, B paraphrasing)

4. Strategic Communications and the Realities of Mission Work

• Operational Environment

  • Responsibilities included aligning NATO’s messaging, supporting reconciliation with the Taliban, and coordinating with Afghan ministries and the international community.
  • Worked directly with a supportive US Colonel and contributed to the run-up to negotiations with the Taliban.
  • “What are we working towards? ... The end state... was Taliban reconciliation.” (14:40, B)

• Optimism and The Aftermath

  • Recognized the prevailing hope among NATO personnel leading up to anticipated peace.
  • Reflected on the subsequent collapse and the painful consequences for Afghan colleagues.
  • “I still... can’t believe we made our friends and allies go through that, because it was so... catastrophic.” (19:59, B)
  • “What changed my career so drastically was that I had the privilege of deploying… and then at the end of it, I could take my beautiful bright blue Icelandic passport and leave, which obviously my fellow Afghan females… couldn’t.” (20:37, B)

5. Gender, Values, and Perspectives in Security

• Being a Woman in a Male-Dominated Field
  • Gender fundamentally influences her worldview and approach to decision-making.
  • Emphasizes the generational shift: women and her peers now moving into positions of power, shaped by growing up during the “peace dividend.”
  • “If we would take exactly myself as a man, I just have different lived experiences because I’m a female working in a male dominated environment... all of our lived experiences... shape the way that we see the world.” (27:40, B)
  • Noted rapid advances of women in leadership roles in Iceland: “The previous former minister of Iceland ... was the foreign minister and the defense minister. She’s two weeks younger than me.” (28:53, B)

6. The Work of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly

• Role and Relevance

  • Directs Science and Technology Committee and Mediterranean and Middle East Special Group.
  • Organizes assemblies for over 280 MPs from NATO nations—recent session marked the 30th anniversary of the Dayton Peace Accords in Dayton, Ohio.
  • “The main mission... is to establish those relationships and ... make the platform for those connections to be built.” (25:00, B)

• Themes from Recent Assembly

  • Central focus on continued support for Ukraine and the evolving discussion around defense spending among allies.
  • “We need to really, really continue supplying and supporting Ukraine. And then the shift in burden sharing... what will be the new benchmark in terms of defense spending? ... That was a huge part of the conversation...” (26:01, B)
  • Importance of lawmakers building friendships and trust outside formal capitals—strengthening future crisis cooperation.

7. On Power and Responsibility

• Definition of Power
  • “For me, power is influencing or having the ability to influence decision making processes or outcomes. And I think that power comes through understanding the environment that you’re working in, understanding the people that work in that environment. And that power comes with immense responsibility.” (31:16, B)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “I think I've always had this drive to really understand how decision making works...” — Brynja (02:34)
• “Wars are easier to begin than to end. Fact.” — Brynja (03:34)
• “It’s not... humans don’t like watching violence and trauma or shouldn’t at least, and it sits with you.” — Brynja (05:28)
• “If I wouldn't be doing this job, who would be doing it instead?...” — Brynja (07:17)
• (Anecdote) “I like your costume.” – “It’s the uniform, love.” — Brynja paraphrasing a British officer (12:18)
• “The end state... was Taliban reconciliation.” — Brynja (14:40)
• “I still... can’t believe we made our friends and allies go through that, because it was so... catastrophic.” — Brynja (19:59)
• “If we would take exactly myself as a man, I just have different lived experiences...” — Brynja (27:40)
• “For me, power is influencing or having the ability to influence decision making processes or outcomes. And that power comes with immense responsibility.” — Brynja (31:16)

Key Timestamps for Reference

• Brynja’s origin story & early journalism: 01:35 – 03:43
• Work at Jane’s & coping with trauma: 03:58 – 06:33
• Deploying to Afghanistan and Iceland’s NATO role: 08:09 – 10:40
• Experiences in Kabul, integration with military: 11:07 – 12:41
• Strategic comms, optimism, and outcomes: 14:40 – 17:29
• Evacuation and reflecting on privilege: 19:59 – 21:13
• NATO Parliamentary Assembly purpose & value: 21:19 – 25:50
• Takeaways from Dayton assembly: 26:01 – 27:27
• Impact of gender and generational shifts: 27:40 – 31:09
• Definition of power: 31:16

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, thoughtful, and supportive—often moving between humor (as in the “costume” story), intense personal reflection, honest discussions of trauma, and passionate advocacy for transnational understanding and cooperation. Brynja brings a grounded, humanitarian, and Nordic perspective informed by lived experience, personal values, and a commitment to collective security and gender equity.

This episode is particularly valuable for listeners interested in:

• The lived experience of international civilian experts in military and intergovernmental contexts
• NATO’s structures, purpose, and changing political environment
• The intersection of gender, generational worldview, and policy-making in contemporary security affairs
• Reflections on Afghanistan’s collapse and the responsibility of allies