Podcast Summary: "Inside Modern Defense Tech"
Podcast: Smart Women, Smart Power
Host: Dr. Kathleen McInnis (CSIS)
Guest: Erin Biggers (VP of Mission, Vannevar Labs)
Date: June 11, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode explores the intersection of advanced technology and national security from the perspective of women leaders. Dr. Kathleen McInnis interviews Erin Biggers, Vice President of Mission at Vannevar Labs, discussing her personal journey from the US Air Force to defense technology entrepreneurship. The conversation dives into how Vannevar navigates product development, startup risks, adapting tech for emerging challenges, and the distinct qualities women bring to leadership in defense innovation.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Erin Biggers’ Origin Story and Purpose
[01:41 – 07:07]
- Erin joined the Air Force for practical reasons—lack of college funds—but her sense of mission deepened after 9/11.
- A pivotal career moment occurred during her second deployment in Afghanistan, particularly during a helicopter crash on June 9th, 2010, an experience that redefined her commitment to national security.
- Quote: "There’s kind of like who I was before their helicopter went down, and then there is who I am after." (Erin Biggers, 05:35)
- After the Air Force, Erin briefly shifted to legislative work but returned to national security—ultimately joining Vannevar Labs, attracted by a chance to build meaningful tech solutions for people she cared about.
2. Founding and Early Days of Vannevar Labs
[08:10 – 10:38]
- Vannevar Labs was co-founded by Brett Granberg and Nini Hamrick, both with backgrounds in counterterrorism and defense technology.
- The initial impetus sprang from seeing the tech gap in government—outdated, inflexible, or unusable technology for critical missions.
- Quote: “Brett was really shocked that in some of these premier centers, in premier agencies, the tech was not responsive, not flexible, sometimes didn’t even work.” (Erin Biggers, 09:06)
- The company began focusing on counterterrorism but pivoted to supporting strategic competition (especially China) after early customer feedback.
3. Pivot to Strategic Competition and Product Iteration
[10:38 – 13:06]
- The major pivot involved shifting from counterterrorism targeting to focusing on contested information environments—especially China.
- Product development was approached as highly iterative and customer-centric:
- “I think you can’t really know if the core of the tech…applies to strategic competition unless you try something…then you get it in front of people…inevitably whatever you create is wrong…maybe there’s a 5% of that, that’s good. We can keep. Throw everything else out and…iterate relentlessly.” (Erin Biggers, 12:02)
4. Breaking into the Government Space and Scaling
[13:06 – 17:36]
- Early traction came by winning a Defense Innovation Unit (DIU) contract for Mandarin and Russian natural language processing (NLP).
- Seed investment: $750,000 to deploy their beta product “Decrypt.”
- Challenges included lack of government clearances and credibility. Success required hands-on engagement:
- Erin described “food court” pitches and on-site observations to understand users’ workflows.
- Emphasis on listening before selling or building—pulling insights directly from the way end-users solve problems, rather than pushing pre-baked solutions.
- Quote: “People are much more likely to listen to you…when you’re sitting in front of them and also appreciate you’re meeting them where they are.” (Erin Biggers, 15:41)
- The critical shift: moving from pitching solutions to co-creation with end users.
5. Building for the User vs. Homogenous Solutions
[21:53 – 22:59]
- The company intentionally rejected one-size-fits-all tech, instead developing a growing suite (“ecosystem”) of applications for specific mission sets.
- Quote: “If you stuff all the bells and whistles into one application, it becomes unusable over time…How do you build applications operationalizing specific data for specific missions, and then tie them together into workflows?” (Erin Biggers, 22:24)
- This approach allowed the company to move from a single product to 12 highly mission-tailored applications.
6. Qualities for Success & The Role of Gender
[23:09 – 25:03]
- Erin outlined three key traits for navigating startup and defense tech challenges: deep observation, resilience, and relentlessness.
- She argued that women are often naturally more observant—acutely aware of their environments—a quality beneficial for both user-centric product design and leadership.
- Quote: “I think that observing your environment acutely is potentially hardwired into women’s brains…You need to be super attuned to how people are operating around you—really just based on personal safety.” (Erin Biggers, 23:31)
- The challenge: ensuring women’s naturally strong external observation/listening skills are fully leveraged inside teams and organizations too.
7. Perspective on Power and Leadership
[25:15 – 27:03]
- Erin defines power as the combination of leverage and credibility—the ability to move people and things by consistently delivering results.
- She emphasizes doing the work (“putting points on the board”) and building trust, both internally and externally.
- Quote: “Power to me is probably leverage—your ability to move people and things. And I think that comes with credibility. You constantly have to put points on the board.” (Erin Biggers, 25:20)
- Building a strong team and acting on feedback are central to her concept of leadership.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the impact of trauma and dedication to service:
“There’s kind of like who I was before their helicopter went down, and then there is who I am after. It just forces you to grow up in that moment.” — Erin Biggers [05:35] -
On building tech in defense:
“You want to hire builders, not sellers...default always to listening…answer a problem and not focus on money.” — Erin Biggers [19:23] -
On being a woman in national security and tech:
“Observing your environment acutely is potentially like hardwired into women’s brains…I think it might be more of an active practice for [men] and more of, like, default passive behavior for women.” — Erin Biggers [23:31] -
On credibility vs. the pursuit of power:
“I never really strive to have power, but…I strive to be extremely credible. Like, we are here to build real solutions.” — Erin Biggers [26:39]
Important Timestamps
| Timestamp | Segment | Highlights | |-----------|---------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41 | Erin’s Air Force origin story | How 9/11 and service shaped her sense of mission | | 04:52 | Afghanistan deployment, tragedy | How a helicopter crash changed her; lessons in resilience and loyalty | | 07:07 | Transition to Vannevar Labs | Moving from policy to startup life | | 08:45 | Origin and pivot of Vannevar Labs | Gaps in government tech, co-founder backgrounds | | 10:38 | Pivot to strategic competition | How customer feedback shifted company focus to China and strategic rivalry | | 13:17 | Scaling through DIU & first contract | The importance of natural language processing and learning to “show up anywhere” | | 17:36 | Customer-centric product design | Hands-on observation, co-creation with end-users | | 19:23 | Company mission and future vision | Ambitions for multifunctional, tailored defense tech | | 23:09 | Leadership traits and gender | Observance, resilience, and gender’s impact on leadership style | | 25:20 | Definition of power | Power as credibility and the ability to deliver |
Tone and Style
The tone of the conversation is candid, earnest, and focused on practical leadership—marked by a deep sense of mission, humble reflection, and a commitment to listening and learning. Erin Biggers’ storytelling style brings emotional gravity, especially to her experiences in Afghanistan and the realities of building trust as a tech outsider in defense. Both women bring a mix of personal insight and actionable guidance, blending empathy, realism, and optimism about the future of women leaders in national security.