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Smart Women, Smart Power
To Infinity and Beyond: Open AI to the New Space Race
00:28:22
On this episode, Kathleen McInnis and Lauren Bedula explore Ashley Pilipiszyn’s decision and delve into the growing space race between China and the United States.
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- [00:00]
A
Before OpenAI was the household name it is today, the leading artificial intelligence company began as a non profit organization with an uncertain future. In 2018, Ashley Pilchin had a decision to take a risk and be an early employee of a startup or focus on finishing her PhD. Ashley is an applied scientist turned entrepreneur who amongst other things, has traveled to all seven continents while casually installing two weather stations in Antarctica like you do. I'm delighted to learn more about Ashley with my amazing co host Lauren Badula, who's joining us today from Beacon Global Strategies and is a non resident associate with Smart Women Smart Power. I'm your host, Dr. Kathleen McInnes and this is Smart Women, Smart Power. This is Smart Women Smart Power, a podcast that features conversations with some of the world's most powerful women.
- [01:00]
B
Ashley, thank you so much again for joining us today. We're really excited to dig into your story and that's exactly where I want to start. Over the past decade, our world has seen some incredible transformations and you've been on the front lines of almost all of them. So can you tell us how did you get there? Where did you come from?
- [01:17]
C
Love to hear it.
- [01:18]
A
And how did you build your internal intuitive barometer for the wacky stuff coming next?
- [01:26]
C
Absolutely. Well, again, thank you both so much for having me and excited for this conversation where this story really begins. Grew up in the Midwest, in Chicago. For me, I have never followed a straight and normal path and I think that'll come out through the conversation. I think at the end of the day though, I've always been curious and followed where my curiosity has led me. And that really started with science. I fell in love with science, trying to understand the world, which led me to do my undergrad in human biology and psychology. Originally wanted to go into neuroscience and that really guided a lot of my excitement to understand, okay, the human brain. How does it work? As I began to think, okay, well, in order to address neuroscience, you can become a doctor. And I was like, okay, medical school, that's one path. I originally considered going to get an MD, PhD because who wants more school? Of course that's the path. Why not?
- [02:25]
A
Yes, of course.
- [02:26]
C
Because I loved research. That was something that I started doing in undergrad was research and being able to ask a question, run an experiment and see how that played out. So that really was the first bug we'll say that I got. Being able to then take systems thinking is really the next unlock for me is being able to think about, okay, well, human health and medicine. Yes, we need medicine, we need different Types of technologies, et cetera, what are other pathways, what are other ways to come at the problem. That's what led me to start thinking about climate change. How the food we eat, the water we drink, the air we breathe, what kind of impacts that has on human health. Which led me then to the world of energy. That's where I got my next bug of thinking about. Okay, well if we can think about new advancements for our energy systems, what can that do for a much larger impact on human health? That really is then where I started to focus on things like micro grids. How can we incentivize the use of renewable energy or alternative energy? And this can be leveraged both with hardware and software solutions. Something that became very clear to me, particularly in this country, is how rigid our grid system is. And so what are different types of solutions that we can approach? That really then led me to thinking about machine learning, artificial intelligence, and can we have a more flexible grid by being able to leverage some of these software solutions in tandem with our hardware infrastructure?
- [04:05]
A
May ask, what's the time span which these thought like these nuggets like, because all of these are like a career worth of research. So how.
- [04:18]
C
Yeah, I mean this really is the span of pretty much the last 10, 15 years or so. And really again, curiosity driven. One thing that I really pride myself in is that anything I work on, I ask myself two questions. What is the hardest problem I could solve and the biggest impact I can make? And that really has led me on my trajectory, which as I was going down this path very much was like, is something wrong with me? I could have just gone medical school and just gone down the path, which is great for some people, but for me it was learning to listen to my gut of what got me excited. What, you know, what was I hungry to solve and being able to wake up each morning excited to go after that. And so, you know, continue to educate myself, whether through books, talking to people, different degrees, to really begin to, you know, learn as much as I could to apply these different domains from a systems level, thinking well and just to.
- [05:17]
A
Follow that on a little bit more, press you a little bit more. Because trusting your gut and defining your own vision of success versus what everybody else is telling you around you, that's incredibly difficult. Was there a moment or a thing that you did that helped you trust your gut, or was it something that's just innate to who you are and it was just never really quite a thing?
- [05:43]
C
I think it definitely was part of the journey when I was younger, yes, you begin to develop what that gut feeling feels like. But whether or not to trust, trust it and listen to it, that is a skill that is learned over time. Yeah. And I would say, you know, from where I am today, I. I have that really, really dialed in. But if you asked me 10, 15 years ago, that was very different. I was like, well, okay, this. This feels like I should do it. But honestly, logic and. And reason are telling me, like, here are all the 10 other reasons of why you should not do it.
- [06:14]
A
Right, Right. Yeah, that's. I mean, again, so many people, and I think so many women that I encounter, it's a similar sort of question, how do I start trusting my gut and moving forward?
- [06:25]
B
And I think what I love about this, too, is we often focus on the technology, but at the end of the day, it's all a human endeavor.
- [06:31]
A
Absolutely.
- [06:31]
B
So it takes folks like you trusting their gut to ask these questions and think about solving hard problems. So do you have any advice to those who are listening, who might think about getting into a difficult field or a field where they might not look like those around them or.
- [06:47]
C
Yes, absolutely. So two main things. 1, 99% of the time, your gut is going to be right. And I have found that to be true to myself is the times that I decided to not listen to it ended up being wrong or didn't go the way that I was hoping that it would. So really, at the end of the day, there's a reason that we have that gut feeling. It literally is in our DNA. So learning to really trust yourself, and then if you really want to double down just to do a sanity check, you know, yes, you can ask those around you, and, you know, it's great to have support, but also some of. Some of the folks closest to you will also question it and be like, well, is it. Is it the best decision? So, more importantly, one of my mentors told me when I was at OpenAI, was the idea of creating your own personal board of directors.
- [07:35]
B
Oh, cool.
- [07:36]
C
Wow. Yes. And it can be for folks in the past, it could be currently living today. But if you could have walk into a boardroom and you can have anyone seated around you, who would you want around there? And specifically why? Is it from something they accomplished in their lifetime? Is it just because of the way they think? Do they have particular knowledge or expertise? And so that is actually an exercise I do every year now as part of my annual personal planning is who is my personal board of directors based on where I am in my life, personally, professionally? And it's been one of the best exercises.
- [08:16]
A
We have to use that.
- [08:17]
C
Oh, yeah, please. 20, 25.
- [08:20]
A
Yeah, there we go.
- [08:21]
C
Yeah.
- [08:23]
A
I know that the, the next thing that has excited your interest, I mean, you've talked about AI, but is space and the growing space race between China and the United States. I mean, how, how are you seeing that competition playing out in space? And what, what are the things that are standing out to you that we really need to be paying more attention to?
- [08:48]
C
Yeah, it is a race that is quickly heating up. Interestingly enough, it's because of convergence of technologies as well. As early as 2019 was when I first publicly read about China creating what's known as Kylin OS or their AI driven OS that they're using for space operations.
- [09:09]
A
OS is operating system, correct?
- [09:11]
C
Yes. And I remember being OpenAI being like.
- [09:14]
A
Whoa.
- [09:17]
C
AI driven OS for satellite management. Whoa. Okay, that's. And then I started looking at, like.
- [09:24]
A
What do we have?
- [09:25]
C
What are other companies doing? And there wasn't a whole lot. And so that was kind of the first warning bell in my head of, okay, I kind of need to stay up on what's happening in aerospace and defense. And, you know, what is China doing? What is happening in AI? What is happening in space in general, Whether we're looking at different space stations, lunar operations, in space manufacturing, what does this all mean from an autonomous systems perspective, whether that's terrestrially or in space. And that's really where I've started to see just a rapid increase in development on all the things I just mentioned. And China in particular has been very smart in terms of integrating these different technologies, whether from their. I mean, their space station is beautiful. I mean, it's. I mean, they've got the latest technology on there and being able to run the experiments that they're looking at, from life sciences to semiconductors. So being able to take advantage of all these different technologies and leverage this, whether this is in low Earth orbit, you know, the moon, there's been a lot of focus on the moon and, you know, what we want to be able to do there. So a lot of things now happening.
- [10:40]
B
You are a founder, an executive entrepreneur, have done so much on the private sector side. Are you having any observations about the differences in terms of public private partnerships here versus China, or any observations on that front?
- [10:55]
C
I think China is an interesting case where essentially everything is directed from the top down, from a technical sense. On the data side, it can make things easier because you just have a single data pool, if you will, to be able to train models, et Cetera. But then there's also the constraints due to the different export controls that we put in place on chips. At the end of the day, you can't have the AI models without the latest and greatest chips to be able to do the training, inferencing, etc. So that's one of the kind of interesting approaches I'd say in the case of the US being able to partner these public private partnerships can also be very exciting and I think very fruitful. As we think about different defense related applications, how can we think about the future of data centers? There's been a lot of conversations coming all the way back to thinking about energy and the grid. At the end of the day, everything runs on our grid, including our data centers. We've become so reliant on these pieces of ultimately critical infrastructure that quite honestly, we take for granted every day. And that can become a little worrisome. And if you begin to think like that is a core public private partnership, as we think about what's needed on the energy side, data center side, and ultimately AI models, and then what that also means for space. So it's all interrelated.
- [12:22]
A
If you had any recommendations for the Trump administration that's coming in, in this space, what would you say? Like, you got three minutes, you gotta do this, you gotta focus on this. What would it, what would those be?
- [12:36]
C
Number one, when it comes to AI policy and regulation, regulate the application, not the technology itself.
- [12:44]
A
Interesting.
- [12:44]
C
Because right now when we talk about AI, we throw it around like a blanket term.
- [12:49]
A
Yes.
- [12:49]
C
But if we, it means a lot of different things, many different things. But if you use AI in manufacturing versus AI in aviation versus AI in healthcare, those are very different applications and should be regulated at that application and industry level.
- [13:04]
A
Interesting. Okay, yeah, yeah.
- [13:06]
C
Because if you apply the same regulation to just AI models writ large, but for all these different industries, you can either over regulate, under regulate, depending on that application level. So that would be number one. Number two, support for in space manufacturing. We essentially have, you know, had space around us and our planet for so long and we're not taking advantage of this incredible environment. You have an ultra high vacuum, you have microgravity. If you think of what's capable on the moon in terms of different minerals, resources, metals, and so being able to think creatively from a systems level perspective. So those are really my two big call outs are on support for space industrialization as a whole, which includes in space manufacturing. And then as we think about AI systems and AI infrastructure, being able to look at that from an industry lens and an application lens, not just a technology lens.
- [14:08]
B
So on these topics, what are you seeing as an investor, a founder, from the private capital side, are you seeing increased interest here? Is there a lot of risk or how does that align with what you're seeing on the policy side?
- [14:19]
C
Absolutely. Lots of growing interest, I think on the defense tech side, definitely growing appetite for that. On the kind of, I put my investor hat on as you begin to think about the risk profile of doing, you know, want defense tech or deep tech, hard tech, you know, kind of however you want to bucket that. But when you're doing work in space, that risk has been lowered both from a cost perspective, but also as you think about just the accessibility to space, thanks to SpaceX and many other companies, quite honestly, where SpaceX is launching about every 2.7 days right now. Wow. To put that in context, that's about how long it'll take you to order something on Amazon prime right now.
- [15:03]
B
Wow, that's wild.
- [15:05]
C
So when we think about doing things in space, it actually is a lot more accessible than we realize and timely. And that's really going to be a huge opportunity both for American, the American economy as well as national security. And we need to be able to take advantage of this.
- [15:25]
B
So why is the Moon suddenly a.
- [15:26]
C
Priority and a lot of different things happening on the moon? One, I mean, it's a really great goal. Like we were there and, and then we left and then we didn't come back. So we should have a sustained presence on the moon. One, just, I mean again, we were there, we know how to get there. We figured that out already. So that's kind of piece one is just why not. But two, there's a ton of, I mean, incredibly valuable, I mean research, science, manufacturing that can be done on the moon. So for example, one application would be large diameter silicon wafers for semiconductors. When you're manufacturing them on the moon, you have a lower microgravity environment. But then two, being able to take advantage of some of the lunar regolith and basically processing the material to be able to produce silicon and manufacture those for either different types of solar panels, different types of resources for sustained presence on the moon. And bonus, I mean, China is also very active on the moon. They have a handful of robotic rovers that we're not quite sure what they're doing. So there's kind of the national security in space angle. But then too, as we think about different types of resources and we think about what it's going to take also to get to Mars or to be able to just do more in space manufacturing in LEO or anywhere else. And so the Moon is kind of a really great almost milestone or gateway to be able to think about activities with Earth as well as Mars.
- [17:20]
A
This is such a mind blowing conversation. It's amazing. Well, sue, the decision that you brought with you today to this podcast is your decision to leave your PhD, which is a big deal, especially to start at OpenAI. Right. So what was it, the role that you. That pulled you there? Is it the leadership? Your ability to see something? What was the draw?
- [17:46]
C
First and foremost, the mission, Being able to walk up to someone and say, tell me about OpenAI. And the first thing out of their mouth is going to be, we're trying to build AGI that benefits all of humanity. And I was like, that answers my two questions.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah.
- [18:02]
C
That I always start off with is, it's bold, ambitious, there's a positive impact. And it's. And it's exciting. And, you know, being able to be mission driven is something that just really, really drives me. So that was the first thing that got me hooked. Then my second is second question was, okay, great, you have this incredible mission, like, how are you going to execute it? And they're like, we're trying to bring together the best and brightest people to help us figure it out. Will you help us?
- [18:31]
A
That's kind of awesome.
- [18:32]
C
And I was like, yes, sign me up. I got so excited and felt that energy in my gut of, okay, yes, this is a nonprofit that pretty much no one has heard of, but these people are awesome. And you can hear it in their voice how proud they were to be working on this mission and they didn't have the answer. They're still figuring out. Everyone's now trying to build AGI, but when you put a bunch of really smart people together who are passionate about solving a problem, I mean, incredible things can happen. And it was just, I knew I needed to be a part of it. I was like, the energy from these people is drawing me in the mission here. I want to apply my skills in any way I can. Let me know, like, I'll sweep the floors. Whatever you need. Like, let me know. Yeah.
- [19:17]
B
Say in hindsight, you were now on your personal board of directors. Is there anything you would have done differently or any advice on that front?
- [19:24]
C
Oh, man. Anything differently?
- [19:27]
B
Yeah, it's hard.
- [19:29]
C
It's hard to say, like, because I think if I would have done anything differently, it probably wouldn't have played out awesome the way that I would. I think the only thing I Would change is I probably would have if I were ever to go back to school. I wish I would have studied material science or mechanical engineering, those two things. Now I'm basically self teaching myself. And I find it fascinating. From the clothes we wear to furniture at the end of the day, you know, is made of atoms and different material properties. And at the end of the day, I mean, the periodic table of elements is just such a beautiful thing and we've really only scratched the surface. And so for me, as I really did a deep dive into AI, that to me is the killer app. How can we create new materials? What is this Ages Titanium or Kevlar? The new types of materials we can create and utilize more effectively through computational methods really excites me.
- [20:23]
A
So cool. Was there at the time you're making that jump, Were there, were there naysayers? And how did you get through that?
- [20:34]
C
Oh, absolutely. There still are. They don't go away. I just learned to ignore them. Yes, but, yes, of course. I mean, if anything from, you know, people closest to me, they're just like, you want to leave your PhD to join a nonprofit that nobody's heard of. And quite honestly, for anything I've done, like, I kind of jumped around from, people were just like, pick, you know, pick one, pick a domain. But I was just like, no, like, for me, I need to follow my passions and what makes me happy and where I can spend my energy and skills and learn. That is another thing that I recommend is never learn. Never lose that thirst for knowledge and asking questions and always be learning. Never stop learning. That I think is one of our greatest downfalls, as we assume, okay, you're done with school, you got the degree, learning is done. And it's like, oh, no. I think I have learned so much more since the day I have left school. And that really has, has been key.
- [21:42]
A
But also, PhD is a certain kind of learning, right? It's a, it's, it's structured, it's structured. It's, it's. Can you write an argument in a deep dive? It's not necessarily that sort of holistic systems approach to understanding the world from the experience that I had my PhD.
- [22:00]
C
Maybe others have a different take, honestly, that if, if I were to go back in time, I am so excited for kids who are in school today to have access to the AI tools that we have available now. I would have loved that if I was stuck on a math problem, a chemistry problem, to then, or if I was reading something in a textbook, be like, oh, that sounds interesting. Like I would like to learn more and being able to pop into ChatGPT, whatever, you know, platform of choice and say, you know, tell me more about, you know, this president or this type of material and being able to go through that method of doing deep dives and kind of self learning. Before, you either had to go to the library encyclopedia, even some Google links at the time, but now you almost can have a built in tutor. You can be able to just do so much more than before. And so I like to look back and like, okay, what would I have done, what would I have created if I had access to some of these tools, you know, while I was in school, even like elementary school?
- [23:01]
A
Well, that gets to intrinsic motivation, right? That these things are tools for us to understand the world as opposed to tools to fake an essay or, you know, because obviously with academia is having huge challenges with that.
- [23:15]
C
Absolutely.
- [23:16]
A
You know, but. But ultimately it's about self improvement. Like you're shortchanging yourself if you don't use, if you use these tools irresponsibly.
- [23:24]
C
Yes.
- [23:25]
A
Yeah. So do you think that your gender as a woman has had an impact on how you have approached this decision, but also the other, the way you take decisions and the choices that you've made?
- [23:42]
C
It's a very interesting question. I think from my perspective and kind of my own experiences, I do believe that it's a no in the sense that unfortunately, I've gotten just so used to being one of the things few women in the room. And it's a bit sad to say that, but it's something that through kind of most of my academic career and then, you know, into the tech world, et cetera, of just it's. It's more of a surprise when I enter a room and I'm like, wow, there's a lot of women in here.
- [24:14]
A
That like, that's great.
- [24:16]
C
But in terms of my decision making, you know, it was more of did I listen to my gut? And does this feel right? Yeah, for what I want and what I want to do with my life. So that really was the key question and the key driver of making that kind of real pivotal decision in my life.
- [24:35]
A
Do you think if you'd been a dude, you'd been able to, you had made the same decisions?
- [24:42]
C
That's also a great question as well. I don't know, I feel like it may have been a different trajectory or a different path. It probably would have changed either how fundraising worked or maybe the way I thought about, you know, business or the approach to things. But it's hard to say exactly because.
- [25:04]
A
You know, yeah, you're not negative, but yeah, no, it's really interesting because one of the things that I've noticed in a number of these podcast conversations is women tend to bring more holistic thinking to the problems that they solve. And I sort of listening to you describe your. The way you have approached the problem, the way you think about things, it's almost the embodiment of that holistic system's thinking. So, yes, that's really interesting.
- [25:35]
C
No, absolutely. I think the ability not only to take a holistic approach, but one thing I have found, particularly with working with other women, is the ability to identify not just what needs to be accomplished, but what are second and third order impacts. And the ability to have that level of foresight of, okay, if I take this decision or do this, what are the downstream impacts? And I've just found women just can sometimes be able to kind of pull that system systems view.
- [26:06]
B
And I love how you've really hammered in the idea of curiosity being so important in your story, because I think that's key, but also the confidence to listen to your gut.
- [26:16]
A
Right.
- [26:16]
B
So not just stay in one lane. And a great way to unlock that is the power of mentors. So this idea of having those that you're focused on almost being accountable to or having that regular back and forth, because at your level two.
- [26:32]
C
It can.
- [26:32]
B
Get lonely at the top.
- [26:33]
C
Right.
- [26:34]
B
So to continue to be able to learn every day is identifying folks you can learn from. So that is so smart. Did I miss anything in that in terms of advice so we can encourage other women to enter these fields?
- [26:44]
C
No, I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, really, again, it's that personal board of directors and that, I mean, mentors. I would not be where I am today without mentors and the incredible support network I have from friends, family, people just listen. They're like, I might not understand exactly everything you're doing, but they're just like, I'm here to listen. Like, help me. Like, you know, just talk it out. And that's the other thing too. I think that is, you know, really great is just even if you talk it out to yourself, you're like, oh, saying it verbally. Just all of a sudden you can kind of unlock things if you were stuck on it before.
- [27:17]
A
And to wrap up our conversation, I'd love your thoughts. Reflecting on all of the above, how do you define power?
- [27:25]
C
I personally define power as the ability to affect change and drive innovation, particularly innovation that is either disruptive or challenges the status quo. Wow. And then the second part to that answer, because this is one of my all time favorite quotes, is with great power comes great responsibility. So that accountability, really holding myself accountable, holding others accountable, that is part and parcel of what it means. Also with power as well.
- [28:00]
A
Awesome. Ashley, thank you so much for an absolutely fabulous, fascinating conversation. Just thank you for being on Smart Room and Smart Power.
- [28:09]
C
Likewise.
- [28:09]
B
Thank you, Ashley.