"James Gunn"

Summary

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SmartLess: "James Gunn"

Released August 18, 2025
Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: James Gunn (Filmmaker, CEO/Co-Chairman of DC Studios)

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Episode Overview

This episode of SmartLess brings acclaimed filmmaker and DC Studios co-chair James Gunn into the "living room" with Jason, Sean, and Will. The conversation playfully journeys through Gunn's humble beginnings, his transformation into an industry-shaping creative force, and his current stewardship of some of pop culture’s most iconic superheroes. Topics span from creative philosophy and studio politics to the future of AI in filmmaking—not to mention the vital debate over Superman’s trunks. Throughout, the discussion blends deep industry insight with the hosts’ signature warmth and wit.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. James Gunn's Unconventional Start in Film

Timestamp: 08:06 – 15:14

• Origins at Troma Entertainment: Gunn recounts his early days working for Troma, famous for its low-budget horror films.

  • He wrote Tromeo & Juliet for just $150 (“I’m not saying that as an exaggeration. I mean, literally 150 bucks.” – James Gunn, 12:02).
  • Learned all facets of film, from writing and directing to producing and even choreographing scenes.
  • “I just learned… I would come home every day from work… I think I’ve found my home. It was like I was alive.” (15:14)

• Troma’s Influence: Bateman and Arnett compare Troma’s DIY spirit to the maverick attitude of Roger Corman, with Gunn emphasizing the “blood splattery, sexual, very trashy” artistry that set Troma apart. (13:20)

2. Creative Passion vs. Luck in Success

Timestamp: 16:11 – 17:26

• Gunn credits a combination of luck, passion, and creative detachment for his career trajectory.
  • “Luck… definitely plays a hand in it… I somehow am able to shut out the world about what the world thinks and just act from a creative place.” (16:42)
  • He underscores the duality of artistic purity and the need to “check commercial boxes” (17:11).

3. Running DC Studios: Artistry Meets Corporate Reality

Timestamp: 17:26 – 21:52

• Division of Labor at DC: Gunn elaborates on his partnership with Peter Safran (“He takes care of everything that I don’t want to have to take care of…all the corporate meetings.” – 17:43).
• Empowering Writers: Strongly advocates for elevating the role of writers in film. “Writers…their place is diminished in Hollywood… we never go into production on a script that I don’t think is finished and great.” (18:42)
• Balancing Scheduling Pressures: Gunn is unwavering about script quality, willing to change release dates if a screenplay isn’t finished (“I’ll change the date.” – 19:31).

4. DC vs. Marvel: Corporate and Creative Culture

Timestamp: 21:12 – 22:19

• Discusses differing studio cultures, noting Marvel’s leadership (Feige and Desposito) care deeply about their films but sometimes get overwhelmed by demands for content (21:52).
• Stresses the challenge streaming platforms have brought: “Disney coming out with streaming and then saying we needed a million things this year…It just became too much to quality control.” (21:52)

5. Reinventing Superman: Fresh Perspective on an Icon

Timestamp: 27:01 – 31:03

• Genesis of the New Film: Initially resistant, Gunn was inspired after rereading All-Star Superman and wanting to tell a story about “goodness.”
  • “This is a movie about goodness...The world in Superman is as unkind as our world…but Superman is kind…that’s his real superpower.” (30:10)
  • Krypton the Superdog, inspired by Gunn's own dog Ozu, will appear for the first time in a live-action Superman film. (29:18)

6. The Superman ‘Trunks’ Debate

Timestamp: 33:29 – 36:39

• Gunn humorously walks through the heated fan debate over whether Superman should wear his iconic red trunks.
  • “I am sure that somebody would kill somebody else over the fight over whether Superman should have trunks or not.” (33:39)
  • Chose to include them because “David Corenswet [the new Superman] was like…he really wants kids to like him. So he’s going to wear this garish, colorful costume.” (35:42)
  • Bateman jokes about the “practical” aspect: “He’s wearing some clingy outfits there…he needs another layer, am I wrong? Otherwise we’re going to see his religion.” (36:23)

7. Guardians of the Galaxy: Unexpected Breakthrough

Timestamp: 38:07 – 43:39

• Gunn was considering leaving film for TV when Marvel invited him to pitch on Guardians.
  • The challenge: making a talking raccoon “real” led to Rocket’s soulfulness.
  • “This raccoon would be the saddest creature in the universe. He’s created in a petri dish…he’s completely alone.” (40:14)
• The use of music, especially 70s AM pop, became a distinctive element, grounding the fantastical story (“…how do you ground this in the coolest way possible?” – 42:43)

8. Directing, TV, and Working with John Cena

Timestamp: 44:55 – 46:55

• Details on Peacemaker (HBO Max): Gunn created and wrote much of the hit series and is prepping season two.
• Discusses the challenge of juggling showrunning, feature films, and running a studio all at once (650 pages of material in one year).

9. Creative Leadership at the Studio Level

Timestamp: 49:37 – 56:16

• Bateman marvels at Gunn’s rare blend of creative and executive power—Gunn acknowledges he’d never do the job without Peter Safran.
• Critiques the long tradition of non-creatives making creative decisions (“…it felt like a couple of brain surgeons performing brain surgery and having a bunch of podiatrists around telling you how to do it.” – 52:09)
• Gunn is candid about the challenge of actually wielding influence: “The only person we answer to is David Zaslav…He’s the opposite of the guy Will was talking about.” (54:50)

10. AI and the Future of Filmmaking

Timestamp: 56:16 – 62:24

• Gunn tempers alarm over AI, suggesting the biggest impacts will be on lower-rank VFX and support jobs first; true AI-driven storytelling is still “a little ways off” (58:40).
• “In the moment, it’s a problem for low-level jobs…all the people that do the rotoscoping…that is going to be replaced by AI in the next couple of years, almost certainly.” (57:35)
• Bateman wonders if cheaper VFX through AI could help financial health of the industry and eventually create new opportunities.

11. Human Connection as Entertainment's Enduring Value

Timestamp: 64:12 – 65:44

• Will and James reflect on the draw of live performance and human connection as the “commodity” that will always be irreplaceable, even as AI grows.
  • “I do think…the one thing is going to be the desire for real human connection…that is going to become even more exclusive…and that’s the good.” – Will Arnett (64:58)
  • Gunn agrees that authentic communication is what makes film, TV, and music moving.

12. Loose Ends, Music, and the Peacemaker Podcast

Timestamp: 66:39 – End (68:58)

• Gunn discusses writing songs for film, including those written with Rhett Miller, Tyler Bates, and others for the Guardians franchise and holiday special.
• Teases the Peacemaker podcast leading up to the new season, co-hosted with his wife Jennifer Holland and other cast members.
• “I believe it’s called Peacemaker: The Official Podcast with James Gunn…A creative committee of sorts came up by.” (68:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Filmmaking:
  • “One of my first jobs was to choreograph a sex scene between two women. So that was sort of like my first…yeah, it was horrible.” – James Gunn (14:45)
• On Movie Studio Leadership:
  • “There hasn’t ever been a creative in the position of studio head.” – James Gunn (50:27)
  • “It felt like a couple of brain surgeons performing brain surgery and having a bunch of podiatrists around telling you how to do it.” – James Gunn (52:09)
• On Superman’s Core:
  • “This is a movie about goodness…Superman is kind and right. That’s his real superpower.” – James Gunn (30:29)
  • “We’re not making fun of him…he is a rebel…His rebelliousness manifests itself in just kindness and goodness and love.” (30:30)
• On AI’s Impact:
  • “I have a stunt … friend who’s like, ‘They’re gonna use my body and they have the rights to my body.’ I’m like, ‘They don’t want your body…they want the body of the guy you double for.’” (57:35)
• On Fan Culture:
  • “I am sure that somebody would kill somebody else over the fight over whether Superman should have trunks or not.” – James Gunn (33:39)
  • “He can fly around…beams out of his eyes…he really wants kids to like him. So he’s going to wear this garish, colorful costume.” (35:42)
• On Chris Pratt:
  • “He can’t help being funny.” – Will Arnett (43:36)
• On Human Connection:
  • “I think…the one thing is going to be the desire for real human connection…that is going to become even more exclusive. And people will pay a premium to have a real experience.” – Will Arnett (64:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [08:06] James Gunn’s Troma Days
• [15:01] Learning Everything About Filmmaking
• [17:26] Running DC Studios & Elevating Writers
• [21:12] DC vs. Marvel Studios
• [27:01] Approaching a New Superman
• [33:29] The Great Superman Trunks Debate
• [38:07] Gunn’s Guardians of the Galaxy Breakthrough
• [44:55] Writing & Producing Peacemaker
• [49:37] Creative Leadership (Studio Politics)
• [56:16] AI and the Future of Creativity
• [64:12] The Enduring Power of Human Connection
• [66:39] Gunn’s Songwriting & Upcoming Podcast

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Tone & Takeaways

The tone is irreverent, candid, and deep—with Gunn’s self-deprecation and animated storytelling blending perfectly with the hosts’ relentless banter. For film geeks, writers, or anyone curious about the realities of Hollywood, this episode shines a rare light on the intersection of creative vision, fandom, and the changing face of the business. Expect laughter, lots of meta-commentary about the movie business, and a heartening message: that authenticity, kindness, and genuine connection matter most—even when you’re leading superheroes into the future.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Sean Hayes]

Introducing Searchlight Picture's new movie, the Roses, starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Colman. Perfect couple, Ivy and Theo Rose have it all. But when Theo's career comes crashing down, just as Ivy's fame starts to skyrocket, a tinderbox of fierce competition and growing resentment threatens to destroy everything they've built if they don't destroy each other first. Directed by Jay Roach of Meet the Parents, written by Tony McNamara of Poor Things, and also starring Andy Samberg, Alison Janney, Shooty gatwa and Kate McKinnon, all's fair when love is war. The Roses in theaters everywhere August 29th. Get tickets now. Turn your downtime into meaningful progress with Rosetta Stone. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language whenever and wherever. As I've talked about on the show, I'm in London, England right now. If you're looking at a map, it's directly east of the United States. And boy, was I surprised when I got off the plane. What a different language they speak. Couldn't understand a word they're saying. Couldn't understand a word. Picked up Rosetta Stone and I learned English. It's incredible. Smartless listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosetta Stone.com smartlist to get started today.

[Will Arnett]

Today's episode is sponsored by Ashley. They don't just sell incredible furniture. They're also making an impact in vulnerable communities. Here' fact, over 7 million kids are affected by the welfare System and over 368,000 are currently in foster care. So together with Ashley and Sirius xm, we made a donation to four others, an organization working to end the child welfare crisis in America. You know, partnering with Ashley in our live show. First of all, they just made our set look really good. They made us really comfortable and they kind of made us look legit because otherwise it would have been, you know, milk crates and, you know, cardboard boxes. And Ashley made it look like a real, kind of looked like a living room, made it really comfortable, made our guest, John Mayer really comfortable. And then he thought that maybe we're professional. We're not just a bunch of clowns. To be honest, there was a point where I got so comfortable, I forgot that I was in front of an audience. I was sitting back on that nice Ashley couch and I was just hanging out with my buds in my living room. Anyway, Ashley offers timeless, well crafted furniture with with white glove delivery right to your door. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style. Great to be here with you guys.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, it's so great to be here with you too. I'm Jason. Hey, what's your name?

[Sean Hayes]

I'm Sean.

[Will Arnett]

And I'm Will.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, Will.

[Sean Hayes]

Welcome, Jason. Hey, Will.

[Will Arnett]

I just, I'm just feeling really cozy today, you know? Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

You want to chat about stuff?

[Will Arnett]

Well, I just want to kind of coz up to our, to our listener.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, put on some nice soft, soft socks.

[Will Arnett]

Snug up. Yeah. Get a nice wrap.

[James Gunn]

A wrap, A throw maybe.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. And just, just. And just get like a real, like a real cozy. Like just real cozy. Are you going to light a fire? Real. Yeah, just. Just real cozy. Welcome. And if you listen, if you listen to the snap, crackle, pop of the fire, you can just barely hear. You can just barely.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, grease up your ear holes, everyone.

[James Gunn]

Here comes Will.

[Will Arnett]

Welcome. Welcome to Smart. Welcome to Smart.

[Sean Hayes]

That's so gross.

[Will Arnett]

Smart.

[Jason Bateman]

Less.

[Will Arnett]

Smart.

[Jason Bateman]

Less.

[Will Arnett]

Smart.

[James Gunn]

Less.

[Jason Bateman]

Hi.

[Will Arnett]

Hi.

[Sean Hayes]

Hi.

[Will Arnett]

Hi.

[Sean Hayes]

Hi.

[Will Arnett]

Hi.

[Sean Hayes]

How's everybody doing? Look at Will's haircut.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, Will, you finally figured it out. Christ, that was some tough sledding there for all of us for a week or so.

[Will Arnett]

I got a lot of like, I got a lot of really shitty comments.

[Sean Hayes]

You did?

[Jason Bateman]

Someone's got to be honest with you about my hair.

[Sean Hayes]

I know all the people commenting, but.

[Jason Bateman]

Then like, well, who's responsible for what we had to deal with for a couple of weeks? And then who's responsible for this pleasure cut here? Yeah, same. Same criminal. Was it Eli?

[Will Arnett]

No, no, no, no, no. Eli's done a fantastic job. No, I'm in New York. I went and saw my, my guy, Kevin Woon, who is the best.

[Jason Bateman]

I guess the next one's free.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, well, I mean, he's never received a mention. He's the best.

[Jason Bateman]

And what was his name again?

[Will Arnett]

It's Kevin Woon.

[Jason Bateman]

And you want to spell that for the listener.

[Will Arnett]

W O O N. And you'd find him and Kevin's with a K.

[James Gunn]

You.

[Jason Bateman]

Ever met a Kevin with just a hard C? How would you spell that to make sure no one goes seven.

[James Gunn]

So.

[Will Arnett]

So seven. No, it's Kevin. Yeah, or like a Quebec. I am.

[Jason Bateman]

Wait, Will, where are you? It looks like you're at your grandma's spot.

[Will Arnett]

I'm not. I mean, do you want me to give a shout out to the hotel? It's new.

[Sean Hayes]

Yes, it's. It's good. It's with the Whitby.

[Will Arnett]

No, it's. It's Warren Street.

[Jason Bateman]

Warren street down in. And you'd find that on Warren street down there. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. And I got to say, I like those hotels. It's pretty fantastic.

[Jason Bateman]

It's cozy.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty great. I didn't know what to. Because I used to go into the place that we always go to, and.

[Sean Hayes]

Then, you know, Jay. The Farmdale. Farmdale Hotels. You know, those little boutique hotels.

[Jason Bateman]

Here comes Sean for he'd like a freebie all over the world. Not just. Why weren't you at the usual spot, Willie?

[Will Arnett]

Because they didn't have what I wanted. Because they were full.

[Jason Bateman]

I see you haven't had your chocolate strawberries over your right shoulder yet.

[Will Arnett]

Are you going to.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait?

[Will Arnett]

They're plums. Get your eyes off my plums, man.

[James Gunn]

We.

[Will Arnett]

We haven't really spoken. We haven't spoken since we did our live show with our buddy John Mayer, which was really fun.

[Sean Hayes]

That's super fun.

[Jason Bateman]

It really was out there in la there at the Avalon.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

[Jason Bateman]

We're still kind of thinking about maybe doing another one later in the year. We're not sure.

[Will Arnett]

Well, we also keep talking about. We know we got a lot of people saying, like, oh, you guys, you know, you're not. You're not doing. We. We keep talking about doing a tour, and it is something that we are. We have. We almost did last year, remember? We got really close. We had dates, and then it didn't work out. But we have a lot of fun, so we. We would like to try to. If we can figure out a time that we can do it again. Plus, this other live show, jb, that you talked about, that we may do at the end of the year. So, you know, it is something that we are actively looking to do, if anybody cares. Probably they don't, but it's something that we do also.

[Jason Bateman]

If anybody cares. Granddad is now officially on Instagram.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Enjoying.

[Will Arnett]

Yes.

[Jason Bateman]

So, but what am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to put up pictures, right? This is not, like. So that. The writing. That was Twitter. I got rid of the Twitter. But now this is just pictures, right? So take, like, a fun shot of, you know, me and traffic, right? I put up stuff like that.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, crazy 405 today, right? Just put that up, please.

[Will Arnett]

Please do that. Please just make your Instagram traffic updates.

[Jason Bateman]

Or shot of a candle burning. Just relaxing.

[Will Arnett]

Do a lot of pray hands a lot. Talk about gratitude a lot.

[Jason Bateman]

What if I can get my dog on a skateboard do that?

[Sean Hayes]

God, yeah. Your views will Go, Will. Skyrocket dogs.

[Jason Bateman]

All right, everybody's been warned.

[Will Arnett]

I'll tell you what I'm going to warn you guys. I'm going to warn you guys about our guests, because you guys are both going to be. No, you guys are. I'm not even looking. You guys are both going to be excited for different reasons. For all the right reasons. This. This is a big one.

[Jason Bateman]

Really?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Jb, you're going to be excited on a bunch of different levels. Sean, you're going to be excited on a bunch of different levels, which all meet. I'm excited on a ton of different levels. This is. We get a lot of talented people on here, but I love when we have people on who do lots of different things, especially when they built it themselves and came from humble beginnings. Our.

[James Gunn]

Our.

[Will Arnett]

Our guest today, this is Elon Musk.

[Jason Bateman]

I want to apologize for dropping Twitter.

[Will Arnett]

He hails from St. Louis, Missouri. So it's not. Our guest is from St. Louis, Missouri, originally went to Columbia University. Got his start in showbiz, you know, in paid showbiz, working for Troma Entertainment out of New York, the home of lots of great, what people would call B movies, but really, like, low budget horror films and stuff. Really cool stuff.

[Jason Bateman]

Right? So intentionally kind of close to trauma, but it's not. It's trauma. It's fun. It's fun with the words, Sean.

[Will Arnett]

It's fun with the words. Yeah. You know, he's written lots of films. He's written lots of books. Hang on a second. It's so good.

[Jason Bateman]

He's terrible at this.

[Will Arnett]

His first thing he wrote was Tromeo and Juliet in 1997.

[Jason Bateman]

He's having fun with the fucking.

[Will Arnett]

He's written so many. He's written so, so many scripts. It started with the big studios for films like Scooby Doo and then dawn of the Dead and then Slither, which he directed with Nathan Filly and Elizabeth Banks. He went on to do feature films. Super. Then he went on to do all of the Guardians of the Galaxies movies. And now he is the co chairman CEO of DC Studios. Guys, James Gunn.

[Jason Bateman]

Holy shit.

[Sean Hayes]

Pow. Bing. Bing. What did I tell you?

[James Gunn]

Paper comes off.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, guys, I'll tell you. Nice going, Will.

[Sean Hayes]

What did I tell you?

[Will Arnett]

What did I tell you?

[James Gunn]

John, how are you? Good to see you. I know, Sean.

[Sean Hayes]

I know you do.

[James Gunn]

I do.

[Jason Bateman]

How do you two know each other?

[James Gunn]

We had dinner at Chris Pratt's house and then we watched an Alexander Payne movie.

[Sean Hayes]

That's right.

[Jason Bateman]

Which one? What was it? Drinking?

[Sean Hayes]

No, the one in the winter it was in the winter in the college.

[James Gunn]

The last one.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, Holdovers.

[Will Arnett]

I love that film so much. I thought the Holdovers was so, so fantastic.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I loved it too.

[James Gunn]

And I know I've met Will a couple times, but I can't. I remember one time it was at a screening somewhere. But it was a long time ago as well.

[Will Arnett]

Still married to the. I was gonna say the same thing. We have met a couple times, but it was like 20 years ago.

[James Gunn]

Exactly. Yeah. Right.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And neither of us remembers it. Didn't leave an imprint with either of us.

[James Gunn]

I remember you standing there.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, I do a lot of that.

[Sean Hayes]

James, look at all the photo. Look at all the paintings behind you. Like you look like you're in a museum. Almost.

[Jason Bateman]

No, hang on now. Sean, who is that? Who is the heavyset fellow there in the black and white?

[Sean Hayes]

I'm afraid this guy.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm gonna give you two guesses.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[Sean Hayes]

No, I can't. I can't. I want to say. I'm gonna embarrass myself.

[Jason Bateman]

I might embarrass myself too.

[James Gunn]

Go ahead.

[Sean Hayes]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Jason Bateman]

This is a heavy set, black and white photo. Looks like an old president listener. And I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna go with Taft. Is it Taft?

[James Gunn]

It is. It's Taft. It's a painting though. But if you notice, instead of a pocket watch, there's sausage links there.

[Sean Hayes]

I didn't even see that.

[Will Arnett]

That's a little.

[James Gunn]

It's a very elegant looking painting. Yeah, beautiful. And then just kind of, you know, just a smaller part of the painting. There's sausage.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, who. Who did that?

[James Gunn]

I can't remember the artist's name.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, that's great.

[James Gunn]

He put that on there. So I bought it a long time ago.

[Will Arnett]

That's okay.

[Jason Bateman]

James. I'm very excited to meet you.

[James Gunn]

I'm excited to meet you too. I'm a big fan.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm a big fan of yours. I want to know everything about everything that you're doing and. Sorry, Will. I know. Go.

[Will Arnett]

No, no, no. I do too. And I'm with you. And I really. And I mentioned it in the opening, James, because I think it's so interesting. Because as a guy who feels like I grew up in Toronto, but I really grew up in New York. I moved when I was 20. And I remember all the times going down Ninth Avenue and seeing Troma ads for Troma on the side of the building. And I was always like, what is the deal with these guys at Troma Entertainment. And that's where you got your start. So please just tell us a little bit about that experience and what it is and what that was for you.

[James Gunn]

I was still in grad school and studying what? Studying writing at Columbia. And I got a job at Troma to write a screenplay for a movie called Tromeo and Juliet for 150 bucks.

[Will Arnett]

Troma.

[James Gunn]

And I'm not saying that as an exaggeration. I mean, literally 150 bucks. Troma was most known for the Toxic Avenger films. They were like, made a lot of money. And then they made a. You know, they started out with sort of, you know, TNA movies like Squeeze Play. Stuff that, you know, I watched on Cinemax as a kid. More fun with titles, made money in theaters. And then they made a bunch of movies that made a bunch of movie on video cassette. So they actually made a lot of money in the 70s and 80s and this was the 90s, so they weren't making as much. But they were never paying anyone for anything they did. They made money for doing everything.

[Jason Bateman]

I mean, it was traumatic to work for them, you guys.

[James Gunn]

Lloyd Kaufman, the head of Troma says that the word Troma means excellence in celluloid in Latin. So I don't know how much. Well, that's what he says. I don't think there's a Latin word for celluloid.

[Will Arnett]

But he's kind of like almost like an East Coast Roger Corman. Is that a fair comp person?

[James Gunn]

Yeah, like a more raw, rougher. I mean, the difference is, is that Corman just was 100% product. But Lloyd is kind of an artist. It's just that his artistry is not kind of he's an artist. But his artistry is very blood splattery and sexual and very trashy. But there is a sort of feeling to Troma Films that the aip, Roger Corman's company's films didn't have.

[Jason Bateman]

Got it.

[Will Arnett]

But you. But you were able to cut your teeth there. You were able. You were given the experience, the opportunity to write a script, to write a screenplay you didn't even go into. Is it true you were applying for a job just to work there? They asked you to write it?

[James Gunn]

Sort of. I mean, I went in to meet with him and then he asked. By the end of that meeting, I think he asked me to write the screenplay. I was doing like these sort of monologues. It was these monologue things. Downtown New York. And so he kind of knew who I was from that.

[Will Arnett]

Right, okay.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. The Thing is, is that trauma. And I just was able to learn about every single facet of filmmaking. So, yeah, I wrote the screenplay, but I ended up. My credits, I think, are executive producer, but then also associate director, because I basically ended up, you know, directing portions of the film.

[Jason Bateman]

That's a sitcom title.

[James Gunn]

It is. One of my first jobs was to choreograph a sex scene between two women. So that was sort of like my first. Yeah, it was horrible.

[Jason Bateman]

It's a different job title nowadays.

[Will Arnett]

I think I speak for Sean when I say gross.

[Sean Hayes]

That's the quote from this episode.

[Jason Bateman]

So then you learned a lot of stuff about the nuts and the bolts of making a film because you were on set for the thing that you wrote.

[James Gunn]

Well, I was on set every single day. I directed the actors. Nobody talked to the actors but me. So it was like I just learned. I just. I would come home every day from work with the girl I was living in at the time, and I, like, I think I've found my home. It was like I was alive.

[Jason Bateman]

What felt so great about it? Was it just, like, the fun of making fake lives?

[James Gunn]

Yeah, I think it just. I was good at it. I really was good at it. And I, I. I mean, it wasn't like I had no experience making films. I started making films when I was very young, just out of fun. But I was just one of these artistic kids that did everything. I made films. I took photographs, I played in rock bands, I did comic strips. But I understood filmmaking. Pretty. Pretty.

[Will Arnett]

And you. Yeah. You were making films, like, as young as eight with your brother. Is that true?

[James Gunn]

Yeah, I think about 11. I started making movies, and it was like, I had seen Friday the 13th, and I'm like, oh, we can all do this. And. And I was tearing apart my brother Sean, who's an actor now, you know, with fake blood and.

[Jason Bateman]

But, like. But look at all of that. And in the years from then until now, I mean, look at where you are and what you're doing. Like, what is it? Tell me you're not jaded and it's not lost on you, like, how freaking awesome it is that you're doing exactly what you were passionate about when you were, what, 8, 10? And do you think it was because of that passion that you're where you're at now, or was it just. Was there a moment of great luck? Right place, right time? I'm sure a combination of.

[James Gunn]

I think it is a combination of a number of things. It's a combination of. Of luck.

[Will Arnett]

It.

[James Gunn]

Luck has definitely plays a Hand in it. I think a part of it is. I agree that I still. I somehow am able to shut out the world about what the world thinks and just act from a creative place.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow.

[James Gunn]

So I don't have to do what I'm doing to, like, you know, please. Like, that can come in after.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[James Gunn]

Yet at the same time, I have a right brain mentality, so I'm sort of able to think how things fit into a pattern.

[Jason Bateman]

The boxes you need to check for, the commercial viability of it, etc.

[James Gunn]

I mean, yeah, the puzzle making part of it is a part of it for me. So I think. Yeah, I think I have the right mix of being. Passion, creativity, but also detachment, which you.

[Jason Bateman]

Need now running the studio. The DC element, you've got to not only be the creative element, but you also have to oversee other creatives you bring in underneath it and make sure that you're marshaling things in. More of sort of a corporate agenda at times as well. Yes.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. Although I have a partner, Peter Safran, who takes care of everything that I don't want to have to take care of. So he goes to all the corporate meetings.

[Jason Bateman]

Dry cleaning.

[Will Arnett]

You built in a bad guy.

[James Gunn]

Takes up my dry cleaning. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Right. You built in a bad guy. So, like, somebody comes and goes like, hey, we want to do this. You're like, I'd love to, but Peter says we can't.

[James Gunn]

I hate to say it, I'm still the bad guy. But he's. He. Yeah, but he takes care of all the, you know, sort of practical stuff in the studio. He knows all about the money and all. I don't know what's going on. On with that. Right, right. I really am here mostly to try to, you know, create creative, you know, stories that. That are good. And, you know, one of our main commitments is to the writing of the story. So that means that the writers are, you know, lifted up in, you know, a place where they've been, I think, just sort of their. Their place is diminished in Hollywood, especially in filmmaking, not in television. And. And to be able to, you know, make sure we never go into production on a script that I don't think is finished and. Great.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, that's a great point that you bring up. I feel like there's so much. The writers, especially in film, have been sort of taken for granted in the sense of, like, we're gonna make this movie, we'll get somebody to just write it, and then we're gonna make this movie. It's like, no, no, no. You're skipping the biggest step, which is you need. The material needs to be there. Otherwise, what are you doing? And people just kind of skip over it.

[Jason Bateman]

Isn't that at odd sometimes, James, when especially tent pole stuff that you guys do there at dc, where you have to, like, put your flag down on the ground with a date? And then sometimes that script is not yet written, but it has to be written by a certain time in order to make the film, all the effects and all that stuff, and hit that release date. Isn't that sometimes at odds with you saying, we're not doing anything till the script's right?

[James Gunn]

It is, but I'll change the date. I don't. You know, I mean, if that has to happen.

[Jason Bateman]

Gotcha.

[James Gunn]

I mean, I just generally, you know, we've been just running off of screenplays. So Superman got finished. People liked it. We made Superman. Supergirl was written by this wonderful writer, Ina Naguara. And then that was really good. And so we greenlit that. Clayface came into us by Mac Flanagan. He wrote a great script, and so we greenlit that. Batman 2 has had. Matt Reeves has moved the date a couple times of when it's coming in, but it's, you know, we moved the date because Matt wasn't ready with the script, and we need to give him time to finish the script in the way he wants.

[Jason Bateman]

That's awesome, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, that is great.

[James Gunn]

I've been around. I mean, I've been around so many big movies by this time, and I just see that the problems are always that you have these screenplays that are, you know, they say, okay, well, we have the first act. That's really good. Let's set our production date for five, six months from now. And then they go into production and they don't have the last act, and they're writing it during production. And that's just not how screenplays work. Everything in the first act, what they're doing is naturally related to what happens in the last act.

[Jason Bateman]

Sure.

[Sean Hayes]

Right.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. And you have so much experience in that and as Jason said, working in these big tentpole films because you've worked on the biggest films for the two biggest players in this sort of this superhero IP world that there is. There's DC and there's Marvel, and you have kind of gone back and forth a little bit between the two. Right. Are there similarities in terms of the culture between the two?

[James Gunn]

Well, the culture at D.C. studios is new. It's me and Peter, so we haven't even been here for three years. So that's New and the culture at Marvel. There were so many things I loved about being at Marvel. I mean, first of all, Kevin and Lou, the guys who are in charge, are just really, just great guys.

[Will Arnett]

Kevin Feige for Kevin Feige and Lou.

[James Gunn]

Desposito, they're great guys. I really love them. And they. They really care about the movies, you know, but sometimes they get over, you know, I mean, like, they've. They're trying to get things all back on path. They got overwhelmed with, you know, Disney coming out with streaming and then saying we needed a million things this year.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[James Gunn]

And it just became too much to quality control.

[Sean Hayes]

So when you have.

[Will Arnett]

Well, that goes into what we were talking about. Sorry, Sean. Just the idea that, like, hey, we've got this huge streaming service, we need to feed this machine, give us product, and instead of going like, hey, let us finish the product, and then that's right. Right. They kind of back.

[James Gunn]

That's right.

[Will Arnett]

I mean, it's nobody's fault. They're trying to run a business and so whatever. But. Yeah, but it creates. It creates that quality control issue that you. That you alluded to.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

How do you. When we were talking about it at dinner, when we had dinner about Superman, you were just into casting or something like that, and. And Sean, by the way.

[Will Arnett]

Or something like that.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

You're so.

[Jason Bateman]

Sean, what part did you read for?

[Sean Hayes]

I read for Superman.

[Will Arnett]

Did you.

[James Gunn]

He. It was down to him in corn sweat.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. And I. I came in. I came in a. A motion capture suit, and I just didn't think that was right.

[Will Arnett]

When. When were you ever. When have you ever been in motion? What. What are they capturing? Like, you go into the fridge, they're going to capture that motion.

[Sean Hayes]

You go, I don't want people.

[Will Arnett]

I don't want people watching Jeopardy.

[Sean Hayes]

So interesting. When I move my body, it's forever interesting.

[Will Arnett]

And now a word from our sponsor.

[Jason Bateman]

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[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

All right, back to the show.

[Sean Hayes]

No, but, James. So when I heard about. Even before we had dinner, when I heard about they, meaning you and dc, we're doing Superman again. How do you. This is like clunky, obvious question, but how do you approach a new take on it that we haven't seen? And what is gonna be different? And what do you. Because when I first read it, I was like, wait, they're doing it again. You know, and then I see the trailer, I'm like, oh, my God, I have to see that movie. It looks amazing. You know.

[James Gunn]

Well, I didn't. I mean, again, it was a thing of. They came to me with Superman, you know, many years ago, and I. I was like, I don't know, I just had a hard time imagining what it was going to be. And Peter Safran, who's been my partner, he started out as my manager in 1998 and has since become my producing partner. It's his dream. It was his dream to make a Superman movie always. And so he was always bringing it up, always just bullying with me, bullying me about it. And eventually I just kind of kept playing it in my head. It was like a math problem I'm trying to solve. Like, how could Superman work? And then I finally started to see it, and it was the culmination of a couple of things. Number one, that I reread an old comic book I really like a lot called All Star Superman. And it had a sort of silver Age, yet grounded, classically, sort of science, old school science fiction, but again, really grounded characters and deep moral issues around the character of Superman. And I saw how that wouldn't be the story that I could tell, but I could just rip off the way that comic book was Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly and Jamie Grant did that book. So I think that was part of it. And then just kind of just playing around with ideas and coming into it. And then I got this stupid dog, Ozu, who was destroying all my stuff. And I thought, oh, my God, what if this dog had superpowers? My life would be destroyed. My house.

[Jason Bateman]

Wait a second. Your real dog is the name of the dog that's in the film?

[James Gunn]

No, my dog's name is Ozu.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

But he is what crypto is 3D modeled based upon. So he.

[Jason Bateman]

Crypto's the name of the dog in the film.

[James Gunn]

Crypto's the name of the dog. Yeah, he's a.

[Jason Bateman]

Okay.

[James Gunn]

He's Superman Superdog from the comics, and he's never been in the movies.

[Sean Hayes]

And so that's so great that he's in there.

[Will Arnett]

You know, you talked about. And Sean, you mentioned, like, Superman. Everybody's familiar with that character, and there is something about. And maybe you can sort of shed some light on this. People keep returning to these characters, specifically these superhero characters, comic book characters that they like and people. And for some reason, they continue to resonate. And I know with this new Superman, I read that you were trying to do something that sort of painted a nicer, sort of kinder vision of the world. Right. Where there was more good happening. And especially we were living in complicated times. I'll just say that.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Is that important for you to get that kind of message through in all of these films?

[James Gunn]

That's not always where I'm at with something, but with this film, I was. I said to the cast when we sat down for our. Our, you know, meal before we started that this is a movie about goodness.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And it isn't about a world that's kind. The world in Superman is as unkind as our world in many ways. But Superman is kind and right. That's his real superpower. And that's, you know, the fact that he doesn't balk from that. That there isn't an ironic flip on the fact that he's kind. That he's just straight up, kind of. It's not a joke. We're not making fun of him. And that's, you know, he is a rebel. And his. His. You know, his. His rebelliousness, you know, manifests itself in just kindness and goodness and love.

[Will Arnett]

I love. I love that message. I think that that's really. I remember saying to one of my sons a few years ago, I said. He was talking, and he said, it's quite personal. But he said, you know, I. Dad, I feel like I'm really sensitive. And I said, that is your superpower in this world. Yeah. And the world will try to take that away from you. And and don't let them take that away. Lean into that. That is the true, true superpower that you have.

[James Gunn]

Man, that's great. Dad stuff to say. That's really great.

[Sean Hayes]

That's beautiful.

[Will Arnett]

Well, it's true. I think it's really true. And I think that that gets lost on us. I think that there was, you know, that traditionally, it was much more about, you know, if somebody comes at you, hit them back harder and don't take no shit from nobody and punch them in the nose and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, you know, look where that gets us. Yeah, you know.

[Sean Hayes]

Exactly.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And I think so. I love the idea that you. That you at the center, you have a superhero who. Not to spend too much time on Superman. I know, but. But. But just that. That. That was important to you?

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was very important. And I think it's really, you know, I think that was why I struggled with the character, because I've normally written these characters that are sort of the opposite of that in some ways. Characters like, you know. You know, Rocket from. Rocket Raccoon from the. The. Those movies and Star Lord and Peacemakers, who are these blustery, angry individuals who, you know, at their heart, they're good, but it takes this work to get to who they are.

[Will Arnett]

Right?

[James Gunn]

That's the. That's what the stories are about. And I think that's what my life was about up until that point, because I was like that. But I think that this comes to me at a certain different point in my life where I am more okay.

[Sean Hayes]

With just being, you know, it's so funny.

[Will Arnett]

Isn't that funny? Is. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Talk about Instagram.

[Sean Hayes]

No, I was on Instagram.

[Will Arnett]

You saw something fun. We're having a real conversation. Talk about the thing you saw on Instagram.

[Sean Hayes]

No, because it is so left field. So keep going with yours. Keep going with yours.

[Jason Bateman]

Because I'd love to double back just on what the button is in the bottom right hand corner.

[Sean Hayes]

But when we get there, I was gonna say.

[Will Arnett]

No, I was gonna.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, you go in my Instagram feed.

[Jason Bateman]

I want you two to fight.

[Sean Hayes]

So far, and my Instagram feed, of course, is my algorithm, but a video came up the other day about you and the movie, about whether you should put tights on Superman or not.

[James Gunn]

Oh, no, no. It's the shorts.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, the shorts. Or whatever it is.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, It's.

[Sean Hayes]

I thought it was curious that there was this whole conversation about, should he have trunks? Should he not have trunks? What is It.

[James Gunn]

Oh, you don't even understand.

[Jason Bateman]

Walk us through it. We got time.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, somebody. I am. I am sure that somebody would kill somebody else over the fight over whether Superman should have trunks or not.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what I'm saying.

[James Gunn]

I wasn't aware of this conversation until I came onto the movie and I started trying to design the Superman suit. And the truth is, Superman always had trunks in the comics. Do they make sense? I mean, sort of. They existed because when Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster first created the characters, he was like a wrestling guy or a circus strongman. So he has these trunks on over his costume. But then Zack Snyder came in, and that was like the dark, more mean, cool version of Superman, and he didn't have trunks. He took away the trunks. And so when Zach took away the trunks, there were tons of fans that were outraged.

[Sean Hayes]

Sure.

[James Gunn]

There are people that spend all the. You know, we think our world is divided in terms of Republicans and Democrats and that everybody's fighting about it. That stuff about Trump, that's because you. You don't. There are whole factions of people that know, don't even know, barely know who Donald Trump is, and all they care about is whether Superman has trunks or not.

[Will Arnett]

Can I tell you, I had a. I had a small taste of that over the years when I. When I. I did the voice for LEGO Batman and the Lego movies and the Lego Batman movie.

[James Gunn]

What a dark figure.

[Will Arnett]

He's a really great guy.

[Jason Bateman]

Inside joke, James.

[Will Arnett]

Inside joke. Yes, sir. I get it. I tried to do Lego Batman in the back of the theater as the dude, but I remember I got dragged in over the last sort of 10. Whatever it's been since I first did it, 10 years and all these. And I get. Speaking of Instagram tagged in these arguments about who's the best Batman. And I'm telling you, it's twice a week.

[James Gunn]

Huge.

[Will Arnett]

And thousands of opinions and things about things and specific things. I'm like, it means something.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, Something to people.

[Will Arnett]

It's everything.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, it is. It's crazy.

[James Gunn]

It's like a religion to some people. I don't. I mean, that. That it may not be the healthiest thing for a person. So, I mean, but it's a. It's an issue. And so, yeah, people keep arguing about the trunks. And then I. I came out in our. Superman has trunks because. And I really couldn't decide, but David Coren Sweat was like, you know what? This is a guy who can fly around. David Corn Sweat play Superman. He can fly around. He shoots beams out of his Eyes. He can do all these scary things. He's an alien from outer space. But he really wants kids to like him. So he's going to wear this, you know, sort of garish, colorful costume.

[Will Arnett]

Kids love short shorts. Kids love shorts.

[James Gunn]

They aren't that short. They're trunks. They're trunks.

[Jason Bateman]

Isn't it born from kind of a practical purpose to kind of keep things somewhat discreet on our superhero? Because he's wearing some clingy outfits there. One clingy outfit, and he needs. He needs another lay. Am I wrong? I mean, otherwise we're going to see his religion.

[James Gunn]

Well, I. I think that you could design the pants so that they don't outline the ball sack.

[Jason Bateman]

No. I don't know. It's different.

[Will Arnett]

You're worried that kids are going to see the super package? Is that what you're talking about?

[Jason Bateman]

Guys, got a real pronounced helmet. You've got an issue.

[Will Arnett]

Wow.

[Jason Bateman]

Guys, these are things you got to consider when production. With the costume fitting, Okay?

[Sean Hayes]

I think it's a smart movie. You just attracted an entire new audience.

[Will Arnett]

By the way, we're talking about these people in the abstract, these people who have an opinion. Sean says, I see it. The reason it came up in his algorithm. Sean's married to one of them because Sean. And Sean is on their verge. Sean and his husband Scotty are, like, super nerds. And these are the kind of conversations that they have over dinner. Like, I could see that you guys going like, did you hear that?

[Sean Hayes]

The trunks.

[Will Arnett]

Like, in between bites of sloppy jokes, the trunks. He's not gonna do the trunks.

[Sean Hayes]

We do sometimes we do about Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and stuff like that. We do have conversations like that. All right, so wait, the other.

[Will Arnett]

Can I just say that I'm just. I know, by the way.

[Sean Hayes]

I know.

[Will Arnett]

God, who could.

[Sean Hayes]

Who could handle any of this?

[Will Arnett]

So we're gonna have dinner tonight, by the way, Sean. And is that on? Yeah, it's on, but can I just make this one just. No cosplay. Can we just say that tonight because I don't want one of you.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, then it's gonna be a pretty boring dinner.

[James Gunn]

Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

It's gonna be boring. So wait, so, James, you had this, like, you know, Scooby Doo, then the sequel and Slither and all these things, and then do you feel like Guardians was. How did that come about? And do you feel like that was the thing that kind of launched you to the next level?

[James Gunn]

Oh, I mean, without a doubt. It was like I had actually told my agents that I didn't Want to focus on film anymore? Actually, this relates to some of the stuff we were talking about in the beginning. I saw said, you know, it's like, no movies are taken seriously. They aren't a part of the cultural conversation. Unless it's like a Hulk movie or a Marvel movie or something. I'm making these lower budget films. Like, they just aren't resonating, you know, I had just signed a deal to do another TV pilot, which I'd always done, and I was like, you know, it seems like the really creative space for writers these days and even directors is in television. That's where you can kind of do what you want. Television has taken the place of the art film in a lot of ways.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, for sure.

[James Gunn]

So I said, I am going to just focus on television. I had also just done a video game, which I had a lot of fun doing. I'm going to focus on creating TV and video games. And it was then that Marvel called and said, we want you to come in and meet about this thing. And I was like, I have to drive down. They were in Manhattan beach at the time. I was in Studio City. I'm like, oh, my God, I got.

[Will Arnett]

To drive through this terrible traffic response. You should, by the way, next time you got a big drive, next time you got a big drive, go to Jason's Instagram and he'll give you an.

[James Gunn]

Update Instagram page with the cool. Yeah, the cool traffic site.

[Jason Bateman]

This. This is before the Zoom revolution of COVID right?

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This was before Zoom. Exactly.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And so I'm like, you know, I'm like, I don't even want to go. I had met with them before about stuff, so it wasn't like. Like I was getting the call. And so I went in there and I sat down and they told me about Guardians of the Galaxy. And they showed me this pre art they had done, and it looked to me like Bugs Bunny in the middle of the Avengers. And I'm like, I don't know about this. So it's like, I was like, I don't. I don't know. And I was driving home in the traffic.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

So maybe I should be great.

[Will Arnett]

Now it's worse. Yeah. Now it's late afternoon, it's traffic. You got to go over the four Hoof. Go over there.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah. I had to think and listen to music because there was no Instagram where I couldn't Instagram myself doing it. And I. And I was going, you know what? You know, okay, so you're thinking that this Raccoon is a drawback. But what if this raccoon was real? Like, how would this raccoon come to be?

[Jason Bateman]

Need to get fucking Bradley Cooper or something like that. Make it happen.

[James Gunn]

So I imagine, what if this raccoon was real? And I'm like, oh my God, this raccoon would be the saddest creature in the universe. He's created in a petri dish, basically. He doesn't. Has nothing like him in the universe. He's completely alone. And so that was sort of the soul of the movie. And then I started thinking how much I loved Star wars when I was a little, little kid and what Star wars meant to me. And I, I thought that I could create that. Not by, you know, mimicking Star wars, but making Star wars for what would work with kids today. So bringing some of the color back, what would you know? When I walked into the supermarket and saw C3PO and Chewbacca on the COVID of People magazine, I was like, oh my God, who are those guys? That's so cool. I knew that I could do that.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you did it. And you, you like, what a mission accomplished times 10.

[Will Arnett]

And by the way, Jason, you mentioned the music. I mean, I, I read that you. James, of course, like a lot of directors, you, you chose all the music. But not only you choose the music for your movies. The soundtracks became like huge hits as albums, like, like platinum selling albums. Jb, do you know this?

[James Gunn]

Platinum albums up in my house. It's so weird.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, but yeah, exactly, like introducing a sort of a new level of intrigue and draw to what was typically Marvel's sort of like, well, we're going to throw a bunch of effects at it and it's going to be really exciting cgi. But you're putting in this subversive element too that exists with the music and with lighting and editorial pace and all that stuff. Like you really kind of, you cooled it up and you hipped it up and it became a whole different lane.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, I think it was like. And with the music, it was really like, I'm creating this space opera with all these characters that people don't know and it's totally wacky and weird. So how do you ground this in the coolest way possible? And I'm like, well, 70s a.m. pop would work perfectly over somebody dancing through an alien graveyard.

[Will Arnett]

Can I just tell you, just apropos of nothing, how excited I was because I love Chris Pratt and I have for a long time. This guy, he's a bravo What a Bravo.

[Sean Hayes]

He's amazing. I love him.

[Will Arnett]

The character is a guy. He's an Italian guy. He's in the back of the theater. James. And I'm sorry, it's funny. Three of us. So. So. And I remember when, When Pratt first did Parks and Rec. I remember the first season, and I was like. And he was a, he was a recurring character, and I was like, this dude is so fucking funny.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

I just, I just love them from, from moment one. So then when all of a sudden he was doing this, I remember when he got the film, the first Guardians movie, and I just thought, like, yes, the world's not gonna know what to do with Chris Pratt because this dude is so funny, so talented.

[Sean Hayes]

He can't find that guy.

[Will Arnett]

He's one of those guys. He can't help being funny.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Do you know what I mean?

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah. He's. He's. I, I, I, I, I text him all the time because, you know, I'm doing, you know, all sorts of, you know, press junket stuff and things like that. And I love doing press junkets with the guys I'm doing it with, with the, you know, with the Superman cast and with John Cena from Peacemaker and all that. But, man.

[Will Arnett]

Which I want to get into. Yeah, yeah.

[James Gunn]

Chris and I used to have such a great time on those things.

[Jason Bateman]

Would you guys pair yourselves together all the time?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Gunn]

But was like, it just became these giggle fest where.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Will Arnett]

It's, it's. So, yeah, I, I had the luxury of doing press checkers for a couple years on the, on the Lego stuff with Chris, and it was some of the most fun I've ever had in showbiz. Was actually doing press tours because we laughed our asses off.

[Sean Hayes]

He'll drop the dirtiest joke, like the dirtiest bomb. And you're like, wait, what makes me laugh so hard?

[Will Arnett]

So, so good. So you mentioned the Peacemaker. So you're directing all these movies, and then you're going back and forth, and now you're co chairman and CEO of DC Studios, and then you're directing the new Superman movie, which is, as we all know, directing of it. Just take the years and the hours and the time and the life and blah, blah, blah. And in there, you. This show, the Peacemaker with John Cena, which you wrote a bunch of episodes.

[James Gunn]

Well, I created Peacemaker two years ago, so Peacemaker or whatever, four years ago, Peacemaker originated on HBO Max. A few years ago, it was the number one show on HBO Max ever And then I committed to a second season. And so it's my favorite cast and I love these guys. And so I was supposed to do a second season. Then I got the job as the head of DC Studios. I was halfway through doing this animated show called Creature Commandos. And so like, in a space of. I had to, I had to get into Superman first. So my second call after, you know, get. Right before I got the job was announced was to John Cena saying, I'm gonna do Peacemaker, but I just have to hold a beat because I gotta get Superman, right? And so, yeah, in a year I wrote 650 pages of material. And then the next year I produced and directed 650 pages of material. And this year we're releasing 650 pages.

[Jason Bateman]

Tell us what your day is like. What time do you, what time do you get up, typically in the morning? Truthfully, 10.

[James Gunn]

10 o'.

[Will Arnett]

Clock.

[James Gunn]

That's not true. But I get up pretty. I don't get up that early.

[Jason Bateman]

It's just so you stay up late.

[James Gunn]

I stay up late, but my, my times fluctuate wildly. So like when I'm writing, I try to have as little schedule as possible because it's just the writing's in my brain all the time. So during that 650 pages, when I'm just writing out of pure panic in a lot of ways. But then when I get to the page, it's working, you know, and then I step outside of the page and I'm terrified. Step back into the page and it's working. Step outside of the page and I'm terrified. And so I just had to keep writing and writing and writing. And that was going on constantly, you know, and I. That was the, actually the busiest time was the writing of it because you know, when you're shooting it's much more structured and then I have to go into post production and all that stuff.

[Jason Bateman]

We'll be right back.

[Will Arnett]

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[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

You obviously love the creative process so much because you're so. You're so deeply involved in it and doing so much of it. What was it like when you got that call to have one of the most prestigious elite jobs you could ever imagine? You know, partly running one of the biggest studios in the history of the so like, that's an executive job. And for the listener, like it's, it's wildly different to be the people that push the button that make it all happen versus the people that are on the set that actually make it. And so you're doing both. How did that, how did that land for you?

[James Gunn]

It was cool. I was happy. It wasn't as pure of a joy as, say, when I got the first Guardians movie, because that was me doing something I knew how to do.

[Jason Bateman]

Right?

[James Gunn]

This was kind of creating a new job that hasn't existed because there hasn't ever been a creative in the position of Studio head.

[Will Arnett]

Which is insane. Yeah, which is insane if you think about it. Right. That sentence that you just uttered is quite crazy.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, it's crazy. Meaning that it hasn't happened yet. Because you would think you would want a creative person to be the oversight person of the creative process.

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right, right.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. But also, you do need to manage a lot of stuff. So there's part of it, and that's what. I would never do the job without Peter Safran.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, to the extent that, like. And JB Going off what you just said, which is. I remember years ago being. And this is on a much, much smaller scale, but being in a meeting in a casting TV show with a bunch of executives from a TV studio that does. From back then. This is 25 years ago, and I'd already been cast in the thing, and I go in and we read a bunch of people for this other part. And one of the people who runs the studio, who. One of the people. Executives, after the person leaves, like, yeah, yeah, I think he's good. I think. And he's having this conversation. He's driving the conversation about the creative of this casting of this actor. And this guy literally was a fucking bean counter. Quite literally had been an accountant. And he's the one making the decision on the thing. That's lunacy.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

That's why most things aren't good.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. There used to be something called the creative committee at Marvel, and it was comic book people and toy people and all these people that would chime in with their notes on scripts. And I think that's fine that they give notes, because, know, one of the things that you hear, all these people being afraid of notes all the time, but you don't usually. You don't have to use them. You just have to listen to them. And people are usually happy if you just listen. If you listen and then you say, I don't know. Because of this, they're usually okay. Yeah. But they were a little bit. Acted as if they were, you know, the authority on everything. And so Kevin and I would. We'd be working on Guardians of the Galaxy, and we'd have. Have that, you know, final screenplay. And then all of a sudden, we'd get these lists of things that needed to be changed. And it always felt to me like I was watching that show the Nick at the time when they used to do, you know, operations, and they'd have the audience members there, and it felt like a couple of brain surgeons performing brain surgery and having a Bunch of podiatrists around telling you how to do it. And it was just like, you know, I mean, they told me to take the songs out. You know, when they saw the first cut and Bradley was doing Rocket's voice as a character, they're like, why do we pay all this money without, you know, he doesn't sound like Bradley Cooper. I'm like, yeah, he's playing a character. He's an actor. That's what the guy does. That's why we hired him. And it was just list of, you know, things that they just had nothing to do with storytelling, nothing to do with what would capture people's imaginations.

[Sean Hayes]

Right.

[James Gunn]

And just whatever their peculiarities were, were.

[Jason Bateman]

So you thought with this. With this opportunity maybe would come not a sea change in what the executive ranks would look like, but at least you would be able to influence this, this studio in a direction that made a little bit more sense.

[James Gunn]

I thought it gave me an opportunity. First of all, I thought it was cool because DC was breaking off from Warner Brothers and becoming its own studio, which was awesome. That had never been done. Marvel's still underdo Disney. And then secondly, I thought it was an opportunity to try something that had never been done before, which was to create a cohesive universe, but also a cohesive brand that was about quality. And I only am going to be on this earth for so long, so might as well put everything into it. It's an opportunity that just has never existed for anyone ever. So how could I say no to that? My wife wishes I had, but, you know, how could I say no to that?

[Jason Bateman]

But did you? But that presupposes that you're able to have a certain amount of authority and influence. What kind of. To the extent you're comfortable sharing, were you given assurances that made you think, well, there's a possibility I could actually do this.

[James Gunn]

Oh, I knew that we could. Yeah. Yeah. Because the only person we answer to is David Zaslav. And David Zaslav has. He tells if he likes something or he doesn't like something, but he doesn't have any sort of say or interest in saying. It's not that he doesn't have any say. If he wanted to, I guess he could, but he doesn't have any interest in saying the story. A and story. He's the opposite of the guy Will was talking about.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. Seems very deferential to the creatives. We love.

[Will Arnett]

David Zaz gets it. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. So he's not, you know, he doesn't think that he knows how to do that, you know, one of the most terrifying calls ever was I had done the screen test with David Corenswet and Rachel Brosnahan, and they were so freaking good together. And I loved them and Peter loved them and Chantal, our executive producer, loved them. And I sent the tape off to David and I said, here's our two choices. Here's what we want to do. And David called me up, up. And he goes. And he sounds really dour and he goes, you know, I have to preface this by saying, this isn't what I do. This isn't what I. I know. You know, I'm not a movie business guy, you know, movie creator. I'm not a storyteller like you are. I. This is just coming from a place of me as a person. And then he stopped and he goes, I love it. And it was.

[Will Arnett]

So good. Like, you are an. What a cool dude. What a cool dude. So then, James, now just to kind of switch gears a little bit. So you're doing all this stuff. And of course, we're all kind of, all of our ships are pointed into the headwind of AI and what kind of effect it's going to have on the future of film and stuff. And we kind of been asking everybody a little bit. You guys must be at the sort of the tip of the spear when it comes to filmmaking in the, you know, where it intersects with AI and how we can use it and what, what we need to look out for and what you think the future might, might hold for films.

[James Gunn]

I hated when we were going through all the, the guild dispute stuff and AI was the big part of it because we're just not quite there at that point yet with writing and acting. And so like, there were all these important issues that we needed to talk about. And it's like, AI the splashy thing is making all the headlines. All my friends online are getting upset about AI stuff and I'm like, guys, really look at what's happening. This isn't a real thing in this moment. You know, I have a, you know, a stunt, stunty friend who's like, they're gonna use my body and they have the rights to my body. I'm like, they don't want your body. They want the body of the guy that the actor that you play.

[Jason Bateman]

Right?

[James Gunn]

Yeah, but I do, I think it's in, in, in the, in the moment. It's a problem, problem for the low level jobs, which is where I, I feel the most compassion by, say with vfx, all the people that do all the rotoscoping and all these sort of more tedious jobs that is going to be replaced by AI in the next couple of years, almost certainly. And I don't think there's anything we can do about that. I don't think there's any way that a studio is going to say, yeah, let's spend an extra $40 million on this movie.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think just setting aside the actual replacement of jobs and people, et cetera, the actual end product is different in this, in our case. It's, it's. And each one is unique. Each sort of, you know, entertainment is going to be what you actually consume, which is what you want to consume. Original entertainment that has the potential to be created by AI. Jb I think that's the, that's my sort of question.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, but I mean it's so, it is a little bit of ways right now. So it's, you got to do a lot of stuff. I mean it's, it's, you know, the things that you're watching are eight second clips of things and even then if you put, you know, get into a cab, you're suddenly getting into the front seat of the cabin. So it's, you got to, it's there, there, there is artistry and work behind AI. I've played with it a lot. It's fun to play with and, but I, so I don't really know. I'm not the A for fortune teller, but I do, I am very aware of what the present. Wait a second.

[Will Arnett]

Thought we were, I thought you were a fortune teller.

[James Gunn]

The other, but the other pro. For me, kind of the bigger problem, especially in the VFX industry is that all the people that do the jobs that are going to remain, you know, the, the, you know, a lot of the animators are actually like almost like technical actors because they're creating the actions of these characters, the way they move. And the pe. The training ground for those jobs is gone now. Right. So how do you learn how to be those people? How does the next generation of people come about? And I think that's pretty much going to be true in every industry. So the, the double problem is where do all these people go, right, that have these other jobs in a world that already doesn't have, have enough jobs? And then how do the people train to get to the next level? Doesn't that mean that we're instantly going to have more ill trained people at the top next level?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I do think though that there's probably there's probably going to be a big audience that doesn't care about. I'm sorry, talking about writers. There's going to be great writers and then there's going to be a huge part of the audience that doesn't care about the beginning, middle and end so much. Just as long as there is one. It doesn't matter how good it is, is as long as there's car chases and explosions, they'll show up. Even if the whole thing is totally AI.

[Will Arnett]

God, I wish Scotty would walk by in the background right now.

[James Gunn]

I think maybe that's true. I mean, I don't know, though. I mean, it depends on how developed it gets, you know, because remember, AI is eating its own tail.

[Sean Hayes]

That's right, it does.

[James Gunn]

It's not feeding on. It can't create something new. It's really just creating amalgamations.

[Sean Hayes]

But I'm saying. But I'm saying. Yes, but I'm saying there's an audience for that. They don't care where it will be.

[James Gunn]

In the next few years. I don't think that's true. I think that what you get out of that is you get a Hallmark movie.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. There's an audience for Hallmark movies.

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah, yeah, there's an audience for Hallmark movies. But you can't make, you know, a billion dollars at the box office with the Hallmark movie. And you can't really afford to make movies no matter what.

[Jason Bateman]

Hopefully there's a benefit from that entry level part of the process that may become automated. Hopefully that will potentially save enough money for the industry that it'll then be reinvested into the industry and help the financial health of the industry get stood up again. Because right now there's a bit of a constraint going on in our industry. Right. There's a lack of work, there's a lack of product. Studios are making less films because it's becoming more and more expensive to sell them and make them. Hopefully this will allow that financial health to come back to the industry and then put all these people back to work again. Maybe in some other job, but maybe there'll be more product being made. I mean, maybe that's Pollyanna, but hopefully it will.

[James Gunn]

I don't think. I mean, I think that your basic point is absolutely, absolutely true. I mean that you can make bigger feeling movies cheaper. I mean, a movie like Superman is, you know, nearly half of its budget is in vfx.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, right.

[James Gunn]

That's. That's a lot. It's. It's a big budget. Film. It's not as big as, you know, you know, Guardians three or, you know, these other things. But, but a lot of that's the actors.

[Will Arnett]

You know, I think, I think jb, I think you're right. It's either, either that is true true or the opposite and we're doomed. And it's all.

[Jason Bateman]

No, but, like, look at the automotive industry. I, I, I don't know the numbers, but I feel like it's a healthy industry, the music industry, with all of that, that big digital change that happened. That, that, I think that's a healthy.

[James Gunn]

I think the music industry got kind of screwed. They're fine. Yeah, they got screwed because, yeah, the music industry had no awareness this streaming change was coming. And they just, they got screwed out of everything. So the writers, songwriters got screwed out of everything, you know? You know, so, like, one of the things I do in my spare time is I've written songs and, Right. You know, we, I have songs that have like 40, 40 million hits of, you know, 40 million plays on Spotify. I, I don't, I've never noticed a dollar coming in from that. And I, I probably have made a few thousand dollars, but that's. A few thousand dollars. That's, that's a huge song. And so it's like, you know, p, you know, people make today from money from today, from touring, which is great that the, the, you know, the live music industry is thriving, but in terms of musicians making money like how they used to from album sales and songs, you know, it's, it's not there.

[Will Arnett]

Well, well, I, I was going to say that. And the touring is, and here for me, me, that is an indicator that what people still crave is the human connection. And I think that is going to be thing that pushes back against things.

[Sean Hayes]

Like that's going to be the biggest commodity.

[Will Arnett]

Right. And I talked to, by the way, I had all these teenagers, my sons had their friends over all weekend. And I was asking all these guys, I was like, what do you guys think you're going to do when you grow up? And we're having this long. And one of them said, oh, I want to get into sports and I want to get into analytics and the numbers and stuff again, go, that's gone. I would pick something new because all that will be crunched by AI. I'm serious. Like, if you talk about a vocation, that's not going to exist. But I do think, I do think the one thing is going to be the desire for real human connection that is going to be A commodity that is going to become even more exclusive. And people will pay a premium to have a real experience of one on one, alive, whatever that is. Experience. And that's the good.

[Jason Bateman]

So you'll show up, you'll dance for someone, right? If you get sent the money, I'm.

[Will Arnett]

Like only fans, but an in person, only fans.

[James Gunn]

Private dance makes sense.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, Private dance from Dancing for Money.

[Jason Bateman]

Any old music will do in Superman's trunks. You'll do it.

[James Gunn]

We've fallen on bad times. I do think that a film or a television show or something that's a novel, they're all artistic expressions and they're all a form of communication. They're all a form of one, you know, either person or group of people communicating to other people. And I think that if people feel that communication aspect is not there, that's going to be a drawback for a lot of people because there is that feeling when you're seeing a movie or seeing it watching a TV show.

[Jason Bateman]

But do you, do you think that there'll be a lane of films not too dissimilar for. From animation, right. It's a huge section of our, of our entertainment industry. You know, Disney animation and Pixar and the like. Those don't have.

[Will Arnett]

What kind of films, jb? Like, are there new ones coming out in the next.

[Jason Bateman]

I hear. Yeah, but like, but you know, those are, those aren't actors. Those are, those are drawn figures. And so there, there's. It will be a lane perhaps of AI films that live next to animated films that live next to live action films that maybe they'll be a different price point. Maybe. I don't know.

[James Gunn]

Maybe. But I think it's also. What are you talking about as a films? Are you meaning 100% generated by AI from start to finish?

[Jason Bateman]

I don't know. But like, whatever animation is, I mean, you have real actors that are, that are giving voice, the voice actors behind it. So there'll be a combination.

[James Gunn]

I bet it's going to affect animation. Almost certainly. You know, I mean, you know, it definitely will.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

So you're in a band. You still play?

[James Gunn]

No, I'm not in a band now. I, I don't play. I just, you know.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, I thought you were.

[James Gunn]

I mean, I was in a band. That's how I like.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, I didn't know if you still played.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, no, I still play. I still play some piano, but I still write music with. At various times, you know, like Rhett Miller and I wrote songs together for the Guardians of the Galaxy, Christmas Special. And I wrote a song with Tyler Bates for Guardians 2. I wrote stuff for Scooby Doo.

[Jason Bateman]

What about scoring a film for me?

[James Gunn]

I could never do. Not that.

[Sean Hayes]

Yes, you could.

[James Gunn]

Rock, kid.

[Will Arnett]

What if you said. What if you. Yeah, I mean, from time to time.

[Jason Bateman]

Johnny Greenwood can do it. You can do it.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, I couldn't. I couldn't do it.

[Jason Bateman]

All right, all right.

[Will Arnett]

Listen, James Gun, we could talk to you. Honestly, we say this sometimes, but we could just keep going. But we've taken up way, way too much. We're already over.

[James Gunn]

Oh, my goodness.

[Will Arnett]

It's so fascinating. We're so excited. The Peacemaker comes out this summer. Summer, right.

[James Gunn]

That Peacemaker is live on August 21st on HBO Max. And there is a podcast inspired by Smartless solely with me and Jennifer Holland, who plays Harcourt, who also happens to be my wife, and Steve. Steve Agee, who plays Economos, and. And then many guest stars from Daniel Brooks and John Cena and so forth. And that takes place twice a week up until the release that we go over every single episode of Peacemaker.

[Will Arnett]

That's fun. That's cool. All right, so that's available now that the podcast is available now. What's the podcast called?

[James Gunn]

I believe it's called Peacemaker, the official podcast with James Gunn. It's a wonderful guy.

[Will Arnett]

And how did you guys come up with that?

[James Gunn]

I don't know. That was. A creative committee of sorts came up by.

[Sean Hayes]

Please tell. Please tell Chandra I say hello. It was so nice meeting her when I saw her.

[James Gunn]

Oh, I will.

[Will Arnett]

Absolutely.

[James Gunn]

Sean. Yeah. She loved you. And Scott. And Scott. Same to Scott, by the way.

[Sean Hayes]

I will. Well, yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Well, fantastic. Well, continued success. We're so happy that we have a creative like you at the. At the helm of at least one of the studios. And. And you're just doing an awesome job. And we're all. I. I'm such a fan, I'm going to say. I know. We all are, and it's just been such a joy to have you.

[Jason Bateman]

Pleasure to meet you. Say hi to Peter, too.

[James Gunn]

I will. Thanks, guys. Nice meeting you, James. Take care, guys.

[Will Arnett]

Thank you, James.

[Jason Bateman]

Bye, buddy.

[James Gunn]

Bye.

[Jason Bateman]

Very nice.

[Will Arnett]

How cool.

[Jason Bateman]

That's pretty cool. I mean, we had Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi on a while ago over there at Warner Brothers as well. That's pretty cool.

[Sean Hayes]

I love. I love talking about the, like, the different opinions of people in our business where they think it's going to go because of AI. Everybody has a different kind of. Of take or angle.

[Jason Bateman]

These guys have their Their hand on the lever too. Like, they'll tell you exactly where it's going.

[Will Arnett]

My favorite quote from today's episode is Jason going, I don't know for sure, but I feel like the auto industry is doing well. Isn't it just pure speculation?

[Jason Bateman]

And I said that about music, too. And he's like, yeah, no, they're getting screwed. I was like, okay, sorry.

[Sean Hayes]

I.

[James Gunn]

What do I know?

[Will Arnett]

I. Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

I see a bunch of cars on the road. James.

[Will Arnett]

I'm hearing music. I stopped noticing cars. I was in a car today.

[Jason Bateman]

You don't want to come to us for what's going on?

[Sean Hayes]

No, no, no. He was great, though. I love. I love his stuff. I didn't know Supergirl was a thing. I didn't know that he's got that coming out after Superman. I'll watch both of those. Don't you think it should be Superwoman, though, anyway?

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, yeah. Instead of Super Bowl.

[Will Arnett]

Super bowl, just fucking get online and.

[James Gunn]

Start fighting with people.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

But it should be. But Willie. So I'm gonna see you tonight for dinner? For sure.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

All right. So I'm gonna see you there for a quick.

[Jason Bateman]

By.

[Will Arnett]

Tonight.

[Sean Hayes]

That's not where I was going, but sure, that's good.

[Will Arnett]

By seven o'. Clock.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what it was.

[Will Arnett]

Smart smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant, Terry and Rob Armjar. Smart Less.

[Sean Hayes]

Introducing Searchlight Pictures new movie, the Roses, starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Colman. Perfect couple, Ivy and Theo Rose have it all. But when Theo's career comes crashing down, just as Ivy's fame starts to skyrocket, a tinderbox of fierce competition and growing resentment threatens to destroy everything they've been if they don't destroy each other first. Directed by Jay Roach of Meet the Parents, written by Tony McNamara of Poor Things, and also starring Andy Samberg. Allison, Janney Shruti gatwa and Kate McKinnon. All's fair when love is war. The Roses in theaters everywhere August 29th. Get tickets.

[Will Arnett]

Now, I know that we like to joke about, you know, my food intake, et cetera. I don't.

[Sean Hayes]

We're not.

[Will Arnett]

Joke about it. Like, make fun of me. Look, here's the. The deal. It's hot, it's summertime. I am looking for something that's fresh, tasting and will actually fill me up. Sashimi. All rivers are leading to Gorton Seafood this summer. Okay, Seriously. From restaurant quality shrimp, like their new coconut shrimp, to the classic crunch of the fish sticks that you may remember from your childhood. Gorton's is the summer meal go to and the midnight snack a deech. Ditch the oven and go for the air fryer or grill when things get hot and you get hungry. With over 175 years of taste and quality, it's no wonder we can trust the Gorton's fisherman. Visit gortons.com to learn more. Boy.