"Jason Blum"

Summary

Episode Summary: SmartLess – “Jason Blum”

Release Date: January 6, 2025

In this engaging episode of "SmartLess," hosts Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett welcome Jason Blum, the CEO and founder of Blumhouse Productions. Known for revolutionizing the horror genre, Blum shares his insights on the film industry, his unique business model, and the future of horror cinema. The conversation is filled with humor, candid anecdotes, and valuable lessons for aspiring producers and film enthusiasts.

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Introduction to Jason Blum

Sean Hayes opens the episode by introducing Jason Blum, highlighting his impressive accolades and contributions to the horror genre:

Sean Hayes [08:34]: "He's a three-time Academy Award-nominated, two-time Primetime Emmy Award-winning, and a three-time Peabody Award-winning producer. His company, Blumhouse, is considered the driving force and one of the last genres to get people into the theaters."

Blum’s Journey in the Film Industry

Jason Blum recounts his unconventional path to becoming a successful producer, emphasizing his background in sales and real estate:

Jason Blum [24:25]: "I was a licensed real estate agent in New York... I sold cable TV door to door... It was commission only. I made 29 bucks a sale."

Blum draws parallels between his early sales experiences and his current success in film production, highlighting the importance of performance-based earnings.

The Blumhouse Business Model

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Blumhouse's distinctive business model, which minimizes financial risk and aligns incentives:

Jason Blum [33:21]: "Our main tenant of our entire business is no one gets paid up front... If the movie works okay, you get paid okay. If the movie works really well, you should get paid more than you've ever made before."

Blum explains how this model allows them to produce high-quality horror films with low budgets, maximizing profitability and creative freedom.

State of the Film Industry and Horror Genre

Blum provides a sobering analysis of the current state of the theatrical film industry, particularly within the horror genre:

Jason Blum [30:26]: "The audience is showing up to sequels and remakes consistently... There's only one original horror movie that worked in the last year."

He discusses audience preferences for familiar franchises over original content and the challenges this poses for innovation in horror cinema.

Success Stories and Key Films

Highlighting Blumhouse’s achievements, Blum mentions several blockbuster horror films that have achieved significant box office success:

Jason Blum [31:17]: "Five Nights at Freddy's was last year's highest-grossing movie of all time... It did 300 million bucks."

He attributes their success to strategic film selection and understanding audience dynamics.

Partnership with Atomic Monster

Blum discusses the strategic partnership between Blumhouse and James Wan’s Atomic Monster, emphasizing their combined influence in the horror market:

Jason Blum [57:58]: "Next year is our first year where our release date slate will be... Combined, we put together a slate that dominates the horror market."

This collaboration has significantly increased their production capacity while maintaining quality.

Challenges in Movie Production

Blum shares anecdotes about the hurdles faced during film production and distribution, particularly with major studios initially rejecting their projects:

Jason Blum [51:49]: "We had $5 million in sales from international territories... It was in profit by the movie cost 15 grand."

He underscores the importance of perseverance and belief in their projects despite initial setbacks.

Future of Streaming and Theatrical Releases

The conversation shifts to the evolving landscape of streaming versus theatrical releases, with Blum offering his perspective on profitability and content distribution:

Jason Blum [35:29]: "Wall Street decided streaming companies need to take in more money than they spend... Budgets are coming down, and the way to bring budgets down is to pay the people who make the movies the most."

Blum argues that the financial reevaluation by streaming platforms has reshaped content production and compensation structures.

Insights on Industry Trends

Blum emphasizes the necessity of audience testing and market validation for the success of films:

Jason Blum [54:52]: "If you see the movie with an audience before it came out, you would know it was a hit."

He highlights how Blumhouse leverages audience feedback to refine their films and ensure box office success.

Upcoming Projects and Future Plans

In concluding the episode, Blum outlines Blumhouse’s upcoming slate of horror films slated for release in 2025:

Jason Blum [60:25]: "Next year is our big year... Wolfman, Drop, Megan 2, Black Phone 2, Five Nights at Freddy's 2, Mortal Kombat, Conjuring 5."

He expresses excitement about the diverse range of projects and their potential impact on the horror genre.

Notable Quotes

• Jason Blum [33:21]: "Our main tenant of our entire business is no one gets paid up front... If the movie works okay, you get paid okay. If the movie works really well, you should get paid more than you've ever made before."

• Jason Blum [56:34]: "I am a great picker. I am a good picker."

• Sean Hayes [08:34]: "He's a three-time Academy Award-nominated, two-time Primetime Emmy Award-winning, and a three-time Peabody Award-winning producer."

Conclusion

This episode of "SmartLess" offers an in-depth look into Jason Blum’s innovative approach to film production and his significant influence on the horror genre. Blum’s candid insights into the challenges and successes of running Blumhouse provide valuable lessons for anyone interested in the film industry. The hosts' dynamic interactions with Blum further enhance the episode, making it both informative and entertaining for listeners.

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Key Takeaways:

• Innovative Business Model: Blumhouse’s no upfront payment model aligns incentives and minimizes financial risk.

• Audience-Centric Approach: Emphasis on audience testing ensures films resonate with viewers and achieve box office success.

• Strategic Partnerships: Collaborations like the one with Atomic Monster amplify Blumhouse’s impact in the horror market.

• Resilience and Perseverance: Overcoming initial studio rejections through belief in their projects is crucial for success.

Recommended Listening:

For those interested in the intersection of creativity and business in the film industry, this episode provides a compelling narrative of how innovative thinking and persistence can lead to monumental success.

Transcript

[Jason Bateman]

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[Will Arnett]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Sean Hayes]

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[Will Arnett]

So. Hello.

[Sean Hayes]

Hello.

[Will Arnett]

This is, this is a. This is not going to be a cold open. This is going to be a hot open. Yeah, let's make it hot. Let's give it a little bit, a little bit of a summer theme on this, on this, on this hot open.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay, Summer.

[Will Arnett]

So. So here we are. So we're on the beach and. Oh, look at those waves. Beautiful, huh? Is that a surfer out there? That looks like Will Arnett will get on in here. We're doing a hot open. Paddling in. He's paddling in.

[Jason Bateman]

You guys. You guys cool with the G string?

[Jason Blum]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

It has no.

[Will Arnett]

Will, don't turn around.

[Jason Blum]

Don't turn around.

[Will Arnett]

Welcome to Smart.

[Jason Blum]

Smart.

[Jason Bateman]

Smart.

[Sean Hayes]

Jay, did you sleep okay?

[Will Arnett]

I slept like a log.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Will, you were missed last night.

[Will Arnett]

Lemon bundt cake and Rice Krispies really put me down.

[Jason Bateman]

We went back to the bundt cake, huh?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Whose was that? Was that yours, Shawnee?

[Sean Hayes]

No, that was a gift. Oh, that somebody else brought in?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. You were missed, Will.

[Jason Bateman]

I missed it? Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I didn't come. I had A dinner with the boys.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

By boys, I mean my sons, not with my golf buddies or something. Yeah, we had a nice. Just my boys and me, which was really nice.

[Sean Hayes]

That's nice. Isn't that nice? Did you watch a movie?

[Jason Bateman]

No. We watched a little Sunday Night Football, which was fun.

[Will Arnett]

All the snow.

[Jason Bateman]

And then we did. Sorry. So then we did. Do we do movie night at night before bed? The littles like to watch little movie. They call it movie night. Usually ends up being. Put a movie on in my room. And then it turns into fight. Everybody gets weapons.

[Will Arnett]

You don't fall asleep right away.

[Jason Bateman]

So last night, Denny hadn't seen Star wars, and he kept saying, what are you talking about? This is the real movie. We're like, I know from moment one, he's like, what's he doing? What's this guy doing? They're in a. Literally at one point goes, this is a great, total human, pure moment. He goes, as C3PO and RT2 R2. Detour. Walking on Tatooine. Sean, hold your boner. He goes, that's a desert. And we go, yeah. And he goes, there's no sea there. And go, no. He goes, I'm thirsty. It was so. It was so funny, just right in that moment to say that. So wait.

[Sean Hayes]

But back to football. Yesterday, I was watching football too. And I don't understand why they. The guy. When they know they have a camera on them. They just hold one nostril and they blow it out the other way. And it's so. They're always on camera just blowing their nose out. It's like, just get a Kleenex.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, you're right. They should go get Kleenexes on the side of the.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, they hand them everything else.

[Jason Bateman]

Please stop the place. Excuse me, can I get a Kleenex?

[Will Arnett]

But why do they all spit in baseball, too? I get that. The chewing tobacco and stuff. But, you know, only half the guys are chewing tobacco now. It's just.

[Jason Blum]

But it's habits.

[Jason Bateman]

It's this weird.

[Will Arnett]

Like, I'm a male. Check it out. I can spit people on the street, too, that just, like, spit when they're, like, kind of uncomfortable or they know eyes are on them. It's like, yeah, I'm a dude. It's. People on a golf course do it. Guys like, you're not. You're not a real man guy. You know, we're just out here playing golf.

[Sean Hayes]

I was in Germany with Scotty on a vacation, and I spit in public. He didn't talk to me the rest of the day.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. He's like, what's the matter? What are we doing?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, we got a huge fight now.

[Jason Bateman]

You'Ve got an escape valve. You know what I mean? If you think about it.

[Will Arnett]

But, like, why would, like, you know, you can. You can swallow saliva. Like, it's built for that.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, but if you have. Like, if you have to get it out, what do you do?

[Will Arnett]

But. Exactly. But what. What. Saliva is so bad that you've gotta get it out. Put it on the ground.

[Jason Bateman]

Here's.

[Will Arnett]

Here's an interesting chewing tobacco. I get it.

[Jason Bateman]

But here's the irony is that knowing JB as well as I do and the. The. Shana, you and I know him almost as well as anybody. He could go either way with that. He could see somebody hork up, like, have some spit and swallow it and go, gross. Why don't you just get rid of it? Why would you. Am I right about that, jb?

[Sean Hayes]

Yes.

[Will Arnett]

I could argue both sides.

[Jason Bateman]

It's so true, right?

[Will Arnett]

You think if I was a lawyer, I would. I've been a defense attorney or a prosecutor.

[Jason Bateman]

You would have been both. You would have come in. Your Honor, I'm representing both because I.

[Will Arnett]

Don'T want anyone's involvement.

[Jason Bateman]

No, and you don't want to be caught out being wrong in either way. So you're just like, I'm going to cover both. You're like, my dad does that. My dad goes. He'll say. He'll make a point and go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're about. You go, intake. You're about to make a point. And he'll go, having said that. And you're like, oh, you're going to argue the other side.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to get to our guest right now. But Jason told. I've never heard that story unless you told. And I don't remember, and we don't have to tell it right now, but Jason was doing a play and he bought the cast.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, my God. That story. I was trying to remember what story I told you last night.

[Sean Hayes]

God, it was so funny. He.

[Will Arnett]

I think I've said that on this before.

[Sean Hayes]

Really? I don't remember.

[Jason Blum]

Anyway.

[Will Arnett]

Just some horrible example of what a fucking monster I was in my 20s.

[Jason Bateman]

Did we talk about last time? The thing that we're not going to talk about yet. We did, right?

[Will Arnett]

Yes. No. Yeah. Please don't even think about it.

[Jason Bateman]

We did, right?

[Sean Hayes]

What is that?

[Will Arnett]

I don't know. I'm just going.

[Jason Bateman]

The stuff that we're looking into doing with.

[Will Arnett]

Did We, Oh, I don't know, you guys are in control.

[Jason Bateman]

We didn't actually talk about it, did we?

[Sean Hayes]

No, we're. That, that we're, we've.

[Jason Bateman]

That we're planning on doing something. We're really excited. We, we don't want to say yet, but we are excited about something because we've had, we've had, the three of us have talked to people have said to us like, hey, you should do something with the brand. As gross as that sounds.

[Will Arnett]

Very gross.

[Jason Bateman]

And then. Right. For a while we've sort of. And kind of like when we were thinking about going on tour, we're like, hey, should we do that? Blah, blah, blah. So then we were like, should we do something? And then we've sort of zeroed in on something that we are gonna do within the smartless world that we're really excited about. We can't really say it yet and sorry, we're not sort of teasing it on purpose to not make you guess, but it is something that we are excited about and when it finally comes to fruition, so kind of bear with us. But it's something pretty and it feels really organic to what we do.

[Sean Hayes]

Right, Right. But first we're gonna say hello.

[Jason Bateman]

Yes.

[Sean Hayes]

Ah. How about that?

[Jason Bateman]

Yep.

[Sean Hayes]

We're huge fans of our guests today. Not just his prolific work, but the man behind the Empire is a dear friend to all of us. A self proclaimed weird kid. His favorite holiday was Halloween. After graduating from Vassar, his career started as a real estate agent in Manhattan before working his way up at a major movie studio. Today he's a three time Academy award nominated, two time prime tamer primetime Emmy award winning and a three time Peabody award winning producer. His company for which he is CEO and founder is considered the driving force and one of the last genres to get people into the theaters. He's our brilliant friend, Jason Blum. Jason Blum. Blumhouse.

[Will Arnett]

Welcome Blumhouse. Hello.

[Sean Hayes]

He's got his little warm jacket on. Look at him go.

[Will Arnett]

We're doing it. We're finally doing it.

[Jason Blum]

This is a, this is a very, very important day for me.

[Will Arnett]

This is. Everybody just take it easy right now.

[Jason Blum]

Well, it's not probably the listeners who are as excited as I am because you know what I'd like to share, you know, with all your fans. By the way, I have I guess like all your guests been listening. Like the way not to sell your product is literally the last five minutes is exactly. You basically said we're doing something someday we're going to tell you about it. I mean, I've never. I mean, that was. We're stupid. It was. It was. It was. Which is why. Which is why I'm. Which is why I'm very happy to be here to kind of help you with your chocolate bars, you know?

[Will Arnett]

Well, it's just like. Well, if you were, like, selling one of your movies, it's like buying a billboard and just having it just be black.

[Jason Blum]

We might make a scary movie. It might come out someday. And I'm not telling you what it's called.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

By the way, effective.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. But for my sister, who may not know you, but knows the name of your company, Blumhouse. Blumhouse makes all the hit horror films you've ever seen, and it's all because of you. Every horror film out there is basically. Every hit horror film is basically a Blumhouse.

[Jason Bateman]

You're saying horror, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Horror. Yeah. Thriller.

[Will Arnett]

Horror.

[Sean Hayes]

Scary.

[Jason Bateman]

Okay.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah. I just gotta get something off my mind first, though, before I start talking about Hara. I just. Cause you guys are being really polite, which I appreciate it. But I think it's important for all your gazillions of listeners to know that I know all of you individually. Yes, I've known Jason the longest, but, you know, we have relationships, and I think it's important for everyone to know that individually. Over the last. Since how long has smartly Smith. Two or three years?

[Sean Hayes]

Five years?

[Will Arnett]

Four.

[Jason Bateman]

Four and a half.

[Jason Blum]

Four and a half years. I've probably over the last four years, sent a total of 15 emails, five to each of you every three or four months, timed separately, begging to be on.

[Sean Hayes]

Separately begging.

[Jason Blum]

Now the harsh. The harshest response is Jason just doesn't reply. Love to promote the new movie on Smart List. Ghosting me.

[Jason Bateman]

No, not only that.

[Will Arnett]

I don't think so. I changed my email address.

[Jason Bateman]

Which one? Not only emails and texts, you also have done individual lunches, dinners and collective dinners.

[Jason Blum]

And a collective dinner. Yes, yes, yes. Lunches, collective dinners. And everyone in my family and everyone at my company knows this has been the golden chalice. So for me, I just need a moment to let this wash over me. Like, this is a pinnacle. Forget those dumb awards. This is.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

This is a mountain I've been trying to climb for four and a half years. The Ted Sarandos. If you remember, when he went on, I said, you gotta put. They're gonna put me on now. It's been two years since then.

[Jason Bateman]

I love that. I love that Blum said, forget the. The dumb awards. He didn't say, forget the money. Because you never Forget the money.

[Jason Blum]

Here's the one thing.

[Jason Bateman]

Let me say this. Let me say this.

[Jason Blum]

Forget the money.

[Jason Bateman]

Truth. Never forget the money. Two things. One is this. You've known Jason the longest, but we met longer ago than any of us.

[Jason Blum]

Oh, no, that's true.

[Jason Bateman]

In the mid-90s, we had a dinner in which you spent 90% of it on the phone outside in the East Village with your former boss.

[Jason Blum]

Yes. Being berated.

[Jason Bateman]

Being berated. The other thing is I noticed you're wearing your jacket. And one of the reasons is because you've been sleeping outside.

[Will Arnett]

Let's talk about that. It's still not improving.

[Jason Bateman]

My favorite. I am still. Since the moment you showed me sleeping situation. Blum. I am obsessed with it. And people use obsessed, but I am literally obsessed.

[Sean Hayes]

Walk through. I never.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, walk us through it, please, if you can.

[Jason Blum]

I. My grandmother lived in Northern California, in Petaluma, where we still. We still. Actually, I still have. I. I still have that little. This little house. And it was, you know, I don't know if it was before air conditioning, but she didn't have air conditioning. And they had these things, I guess in the 30s and 40s really is when it started called sleeping decks. And you would just kind of put a mattress and sleep outside in the summer to stay cool. And when I went to go visit my grandmother, I used to always sleep outside on a little mattress in a sleeping bag on the sleeping deck. And ever since that time, I've always wanted a house where I could sleep outside. And about five years ago, we got this house in Rustic Canyon, and I built a deck outside the bedroom, and we have a completely screened in porch. There's no heat. And my wife and I sleep there every night. And it feels great.

[Sean Hayes]

And now people don't realize California, it actually really does get really, really cold.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, it gets cool at night.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

48, 46 is about the coldest that it gets. I sleep with a hat. See my hat? I sleep with the hat on. And I sleep with. I have, you know, sweats and sweatpants and I. Multiple blankets and gloves.

[Jason Bateman]

And you don't need a sound machine because right next to the sleeping deck is a creek.

[Jason Blum]

There's a little creek. Yeah. So you just cre. They have water. And it's right in the middle of Santa Monica.

[Jason Bateman]

And I said to Vom, I go. And we were in there and he was showing me, and I was just blown away. And I go, especially as a Canadian, I was really impressed. And I said, how do you sleep out here? And he goes, incredibly.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. And I was like, incredibly. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And he doubles down. Because what happens as soon as you wake up from that freezing night?

[Jason Blum]

Then I walk down. It's a balcony with an outdoor stairway, and I do a jump in my cold plunge very quickly, which is very trendy and pathetic, but I do it. And then I take a.

[Will Arnett]

It's what, 37 degrees?

[Jason Blum]

It's at 37. But I don't. I used to stay in for a minute every morning, and Vivi Nivo stays in for a minute or something, and I used to stay in for a minute every morning. And then I started getting sick. Like, every two weeks, I was getting a different sickness, and I'm convinced it was because I was doing that. So now I just go in for like five seconds. Wakes me up, and then I jump into a warm shower and I'm on my way to school.

[Sean Hayes]

Now, couldn't all of this be solved by just opening the windows in your main bedroom?

[Will Arnett]

Just open the windows.

[Jason Blum]

Doesn't. Not the same at all.

[Sean Hayes]

Not the same. Not the same.

[Jason Blum]

Oh, not at all. Not the same.

[Jason Bateman]

Not at all.

[Sean Hayes]

Not at all.

[Jason Blum]

Because every so often we sleep in the bedroom with all the windows open. It's just. It's not the same.

[Will Arnett]

And Lauren's on board with all this. Does she do the cold plunge, too?

[Jason Blum]

She does not do the cold plunge, but she loves sleeping outside, and we sleep outside together every night. She doesn't do the cold plunge.

[Jason Bateman]

But, Sean, you used to sleep outside. Right, Sorry. A five guys. Every time they open, a new five guys. You'd sleep outside waiting for. To open.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I got so excited, I was. I'd starve myself.

[Will Arnett]

Now, Jason, the eccentricities. Don't. Don't stop there. Let's talk to. Let's. Let's explain to Tracy about the traffic situation and the parking situation in Los Angeles and how you've managed to circumvent that problem.

[Sean Hayes]

But before that. And yes, I want to hear that. I just want to tell Tracy, like, you know, insidious Paranormal Activity, the Purge. Get out. It goes on and on and on. I just want to let get people.

[Jason Bateman]

These are films that Jason has produced, is what you're trying to say.

[Sean Hayes]

That's right, that's right.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

He's responsible for all of these split Halloween. You left five nights at Freddy's, Megan.

[Sean Hayes]

That's right.

[Jason Blum]

A couple of big ones. The gift, most importantly, the gift.

[Sean Hayes]

So. But I say all that because you. You can accomplish all this because to Jason's question, you have a van. A van. Is that what you're talking about that you drive.

[Jason Blum]

Yes, I'm obsessed with efficiency. I'm obsessed with. Yes. And. And one of the. One of the things I was very fixated on is I. I've always kind of struggled with life in la, and I'm always very hot and cold in la. But one of the things I really don't like is driving and traffic and valet parking and parking and all of that stuff. I really much prefer public transportation. There was a while when I lived downtown that I took the subway in la, you remember? This is in la, you take an Uber. Well, it went right downtown. So you take an Uber to the stop in Santa Monica and then take. Take the train and then I could walk to my house. Wow, that's a very LA way to take the subway. But anyway, the. The best.

[Will Arnett]

The best thing, this van.

[Jason Blum]

And I'm in my second generation of van. But when I always said if I made a hit movie, I was going to do this for myself. And the first hit I had was Paranormal Activity, and I went right out. I bought myself the used chevy Astro for 10,000 bucks. Now, at that time, this is about 12 years ago, there were very few minivans with a flat bottom. Like a handyman, all of the minivans had a.

[Sean Hayes]

Nobody likes a flat bottom for the.

[Jason Blum]

Back axle, I understand. Yeah, yeah. So this had. This was completely flat. And so we took a minivan and I took it to a guy who did car stereos and gave him, I think, 20 grand, or I think the whole thing was 30,000 bucks. And he built an office in the back. So I had a computer, I had a keyboard, I had a printer.

[Sean Hayes]

That's crazy.

[Jason Blum]

And the screen went up and down, all the windows closed. So I would make it impossible for myself to backseat drive. So I would never say, like, I wish you take. I would never think about. I wish you were going this route or this route or the traffic here, the traffic there. Because if you're in your thing and you're working, it doesn't matter if it takes 20 minutes, if it takes 30 minutes.

[Sean Hayes]

Like a Waymo. Now you're.

[Jason Blum]

It's a. It's like a waymo. Exactly.

[Will Arnett]

So you're rolling calls, you're watching cuts, you're. You're receiving fast.

[Jason Blum]

Doing my email, I'm printing out my boarding pass. You know, you could print out your little speech. I'm printing out my speech.

[Will Arnett]

And then if you need to park somewhere and there's no parking, what you did was you painted on the side of this van. What?

[Jason Blum]

Oh, I did. I painted. It was a. And it said. It said electric. It was an electrician van, but it said electric. Oh, commercial residential electrician. Yeah. So it looked like an electricity or something. A blum. Power. Yeah, exactly.

[Jason Bateman]

It looked like a commercial vehicle.

[Jason Blum]

It looked like a commercial little handyman. Looked like a handyman.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. One cone and you're good, you know.

[Jason Bateman]

You know who used to do that? You know who used to do that a lot and was really effective for grab was the Stasi, the secret police in East Germany. And they would drive around and it would look like a bread truck, and they would nab people off the street and stuff them in the back and then take them to the Stasi headquarters to torture them. You know what I mean? So this is.

[Jason Blum]

The second part is a movie. We don't do that.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

I actually bought speakers out of the back of some guy's van at a gas station. I did.

[Jason Blum]

That could have been the guy who redid my van.

[Will Arnett]

Did he have a flat bottom?

[Jason Bateman]

And they were not real. They were.

[Sean Hayes]

No. Otherwise it wouldn't have been empty.

[Jason Bateman]

And they weren't real, right? They were fake. They were empty, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, they were empty. Totally.

[Will Arnett]

Now, Jason, you say your struggles with la, that implies you came from somewhere. Where is that place?

[Jason Blum]

Well, I was born in la. I lived here till I was five, and then I grew up in New York. I grew up until eighth grade. I went to public school in Dobbs Ferry in Westchester, and then I went to boarding school in Connecticut, which was very traumatic. And then I went to Vassar and Poughkeepsie, and then I lived in New York for my first 10 years of motion picture shenanigans. I lived in New York from. In the 90s. I graduated in 1991, so I was there from 91 to 2000. And then I moved to LA in 2000. And I've always thought about moving back, but I never really.

[Jason Bateman]

But you didn't. But when you first moved to LA and you alluded to the fact you lived downtown for a while, you lived in a hotel, you never wanted to commit.

[Jason Blum]

I lived at the Ritz. Yeah, it was great. I love. I still own the apartment if anyone wants to buy. Cannot sell that thing for the.

[Will Arnett]

What about the traffic about Laker Games and stuff, though? Like when they were building crypto and. Or Staples or whatever.

[Jason Blum]

Oh, Laker Games was amazing because I had meat. I had great parking. I could just park at my house, right? You could. Well, I didn't really. I'm not really Go to the Lakers. But, but you can go. I could go to Staples to see shows.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, but you couldn't get in and out.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, I loved it. I love. It's a great. It was great. It was rare.

[Jason Bateman]

No, you mean if he was coming back.

[Jason Blum]

I know what you mean. Like if I was coming back and there was a Lakers game. Yeah, sometimes it was a pain in the ass. It wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad.

[Will Arnett]

Now do you not miss, like, the idea? It just sounds so ideal. First of all, I've seen the Vassar campus and it's incredibly beautiful. I can only imagine the boarding school in Connecticut was also gorgeous. Like when you moved out here to Los Angeles, did you not miss? Because like, we're, we're recording this in the, in the winter time here in la and it's just, you know, the, the, the, the leaves are finally turning and, but it's like that, that most of the year in Back East. Do you not miss all of that?

[Jason Blum]

Yes, I miss. That's what I'm saying. I struggle with living in la. I miss it terribly. We go. We were in Connecticut for the summer. I made a deal with my wife. My wife kind of prefers la, but we made a deal that when school holidays, we go to the East Coast. So for all summer I get to be on the east coast, which I like.

[Sean Hayes]

But where you live in LA is like. Feels like the East Coast. Gorgeous forestry. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Jason Blum]

That's true.

[Sean Hayes]

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[Will Arnett]

And now back to the show.

[Sean Hayes]

You know what? Because you're a real estate agent. That's so funny, by the way. I didn't know that.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, what?

[Sean Hayes]

He was a real estate agent.

[Jason Blum]

I was a licensed real estate agent in New York. I did it for Cromen Real Estate. 1992. 1993. Yeah. It was an amazing job.

[Will Arnett]

In New York City.

[Jason Blum]

In New York City. That was after I sold cable TV first. I sold cable TV door to door. Commission only. I made 29 bucks a sale. That's it. You only made money if you sold someone cable TV for Time Warner in Chicago. No, prime cable of Chicago. Yeah, prime cable of Chicago. I loved commission only jobs. And that's why. And the movies are the same thing. I don't get paid on our movies. I only get paid if the movies work. And that started when I was really young. You know, doing shoveling driveways or actually shoveling driveways is a good Example of it is if I had to work for a landscaper and you'd get like, you know, five bucks an hour. Or you could go shovel driveways and say, well, do your whole driveway. Give me 10 bucks or 15 bucks. And I hated getting paid. Always like a salary. Work for hire. I always liked getting paid for the exact work that I did. Right, Right. So when everyone else was a waiter, I sold cable because I'm like, I can make more money if just pay me for the sales. And the same thing with the real estate. And when everyone else was a real. I was a real estate agent because you only got paid if you rented people apartments. And I always liked. I loved sales.

[Sean Hayes]

That's cool. That's wild. I still love sales because you have the person. You have that. You're such an amazing personality that I wondered if you. How did that kind of aid you in what. When you crossed over to producing. Because you're such. You're so personable. Everybody loves you.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. The best. I always say that. Think the best training I ever got for being a producer was. Was real estate. Because you. You get. It's the same as being an actor. You get rejected all the time. So most people don't rent the apartment. Right. Most. Most movies you don't get. Most movies you don't get made. So it got you very. It gets you very used to being rejected and just keep. You just gotta keep trying. Very, very similar to acting. You gotta keep trying and keep trying. It is sales and it works. It's sales.

[Will Arnett]

Every part of this business is sales. Unless you. Unless you have a studio job and you're on the buying side.

[Jason Blum]

But even them, they're selling a direct. They're trying to. Studio people are salespeople too. They're selling. They want directors to direct things they don't necessarily wanna do. They want actors to do things they don't necessarily wanna. Want their boss to make a movie their boss doesn't necessarily want to make. Yeah, it's. Everyone's selling. Everyone's selling to a certain degree.

[Will Arnett]

And your company's so big now you're doing both sales and. And you're buying and selling at the same time, right?

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, we do.

[Will Arnett]

Coming in all the time, trying to sort of sell you a pitch on something and you've got to make a decision. And do you like toggling back and forth between that?

[Jason Blum]

I do. I do. I like toggling back and forth, buying. I.

[Jason Bateman]

Would you get a bumper sticker that says, I like to. Toggle or. I'd rather. I'd rather be toggle. I'd rather be toggling.

[Jason Blum]

I may actually paint, man. I like to be toggled. I'm like, Jason. I like to do both sides. I like to do both sides.

[Jason Bateman]

Toggling electric. Toggling electric.

[Jason Blum]

Toggling electric.

[Will Arnett]

The long lost switch.

[Jason Bateman]

Let me ask you this, okay? I want to get into this. What is the current? You and I have talked about this before. I said, well, can we do a comedy? I remember about a year and a half ago or something, we had lunch and I said, can we do. Make a comedy? You said, there's no money in it. And I said, really? I mean, in effect, you said that the state of movies.

[Jason Blum]

There's no money for me in it.

[Jason Bateman]

There's no money for you, Right, Yeah, I don't know. I got it.

[Sean Hayes]

Because you're not getting paid. You're not getting paid.

[Jason Blum]

I'm not getting. I'm not the comedian.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, no, no, I got it. I read that. But what is the state of theatrical films on this planet right now from your perspective? Can people still make them? Can they make money? Do people want to go and see them?

[Jason Blum]

Okay, let's just clear the record. On the comedy, my response was not, I can't make money in it. Although that is true. But the reason that we don't do comedy is because you. I don't. I think horror really works. You don't need a. You don't need massive, massive stars for theatrical horror.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

Cause it's about tv, different thing. Tv, comedy, different things. But for comedy, for a comedy to work, comedy is just very hard to work. In movie theaters, there's so much great comedy. All of you guys have been part of a lot of it on television. Horror doesn't really work on tv. There's a lot of great comedy on tv. So to make and for comedy to work theatrically, I still think it's very hard anyway, and you need a huge star so that it becomes expensive.

[Jason Bateman]

And there was a time, as you.

[Jason Blum]

As you know, I don't like making expensive movies.

[Jason Bateman]

As we know, there was a time, especially in the early aughts, where there were a ton of big comedy films driven by big stars. But as we know, especially if we go back and look at a lot of them, I've always maintained it's hard to make a good comedy film because of the nature of making film does not lend itself to that element of surprise, et cetera. In television, you have to make it quickly. You have to keep Moving. And so it works for comedy in that way. Making movies can be often tedious and quite boring. A. That's. But so it's funny that the comedy works on TV and horror does not, and vice versa. But what about the state of theatrical movies of film?

[Jason Blum]

Well, this is constantly on my mind. And I actually texted. I texted Aaron this morning, you know, who runs all the AMC theaters because they had their biggest weekend ever.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[Jason Blum]

And I keep trying. I've been asking everyone I trust on that, like, is this like an anomaly? Or do you think.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, but look at what. But look at what worked. It's Wicked, which was an IP already established for 20 years. Gladiator 2, which was a massive movie. Moana, which was an institution in and of itself.

[Will Arnett]

Two sequels.

[Jason Blum]

Well, that's different. If you're saying. Or people don't want original movies.

[Jason Bateman]

They don't.

[Jason Blum]

Like. They say, right, that they want them. But actions speak louder than words.

[Sean Hayes]

That's right.

[Jason Blum]

People want familiarity, reason. They're all sequels and remakes. That. That's what they want. That's what. That's what the audience. The audience is showing up to that consistently, consistently, consistently. And even more so now, if you look at horror this year, one horror movie in 12 months really hit original. There were six or seven sequels that worked, but one original horror. I don't think you'd have to go Long legs.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, I don't.

[Jason Blum]

I think. I don't. I think you'd have to go back 10 years for, for. To see where only one original horror movie worked. I mean, it's. It's.

[Jason Bateman]

Have. Have there been any outliers in terms of films that horror and. Or otherwise that have done well in the last, let's say since the pandemic, since 2020, in the last four and a half years, anything?

[Jason Blum]

Well, yeah, we've. Our High Five Nights at Freddy's was last year's our highest grossing movie of all time.

[Sean Hayes]

Wow.

[Jason Bateman]

And that was a. So that. That was the original.

[Jason Blum]

No, it's based on a game.

[Sean Hayes]

Based on an ip.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, but based on a game.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that did. That did 300 million bucks. I'm trying to say we had our best. Megan. Megan was one. Megan was a huge movie. Black Phone was a huge movie. Quiet Place is not our movie. Huge movie. Conjuring the. Those. Those were post. You know, Quiet Place was this year. Those were. Those were all post pandemic horror franchises are. Like I said, we had our Insidious Five last year. It was the highest grossing Insidious movie of all five of them. And that was.

[Jason Bateman]

And it was the most insidious most of the five.

[Will Arnett]

Sure.

[Jason Blum]

I'm sure you've seen all five of the five.

[Jason Bateman]

It was the most insidious.

[Will Arnett]

So hey, so Jason, without getting too much into the weeds for, for folks like Tracy, can you speak what do you think the current appet is in the business for these sort of these trick deals where instead of an actor getting paid a bunch of money up front. Like when you're talking about this scenario with comedy where by having a big star in there it becomes sort of cost prohibitive. But I think some, some actors, Cameron Diaz is one of the famous ones that did it for Teacher.

[Jason Bateman]

Bad Teacher.

[Will Arnett]

Bad Teacher where she basically didn't take a lot of money up front but then had this definition for the back end of a profit participant where if the film did really well, she got paid a lot of money and did. Because I know your model without getting into stuff you may or may not want to talk about, you are. You seem to be open to this type of structure in the interest of trying to get as many at bats as possible in the hopes of finding a great movie.

[Jason Blum]

Well, no, it's more than that. Like that's our main tenant of our, of our entire business is no one gets paid up front, including us. Just like my real estate and just like my, just like my cable tv. Like no one gets paid or you get paid minimum scale. And if the movie works okay, you get paid okay. And if the movie works really well, you should get paid more than you've ever made before. That's our whole.

[Sean Hayes]

What about your toggle business?

[Jason Blum]

The toggle business is also a an IFCOM business, by the way. It's a fantastic ifcom business.

[Jason Bateman]

Yes, I but I remember you saying that. I remember you blum talking about and who I won't name but an actor that you who was in one of your films in the last five, 10 years who's a well known actor who you said they made more money doing this. They took nothing up front. They made more money doing this than they'd made on anything they'd ever done. They've ever done.

[Jason Blum]

That's true. And that's how we keep getting people to work for us and take a gamble.

[Will Arnett]

And you didn't mind doing that, right? You didn't mind writing those checks to that.

[Jason Blum]

The greatest thing I can ever do is if I write the biggest check to anyone's ever made on my. It's like complaining about paying a lot of taxes like if you're paying a.

[Will Arnett]

Lot of taxes, things are going on. Yeah. So then why do you think that's not more universally embrace?

[Jason Blum]

Well, it is. So I wrote an article in the New York Times. It was an op ed. I was very proud of it. And you can go back and read it, Tracy. No, Tracy can go back and read it to me or I'll read it.

[Jason Bateman]

To you for New York Times.

[Jason Blum]

And it was all about the fact that I believe in my. If there's one, there are no rules to making movies and TV shows in my mind, except one, which is if people have equity in what they're making, as opposed to being paid up for what they're making is better. It just.

[Jason Bateman]

Absolutely.

[Jason Blum]

I totally agree. And that his view has been very. Not. Has been very out of fashion until the streaming correction, which happened about 18 months ago. But to put it in very broad terms, Starting in about 2010, there was an enormous amount of money. Wall street gave not just Netflix, but all the streamers money not based on their profit, but based on subscriber numbers. And the way to get subscriber numbers was to spend more and more and more and more. And so the industry as a whole spent more money than it was making because it wasn't using profit as a metric. Right. You with me? Yep.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

18 months ago, when Netflix stock dropped, it's now back to beyond what it was before, which is going to tie into what I'm saying. But 18 months ago, Wall street decided that's dumb. Streaming companies and media companies need to be like every other company, which means they need to take in more money than they spend. So we're no longer going to reward you for streaming numbers or anything else or what you might eventually make in streaming. We're going to reward you for what actually makes money. So that all the people who make content had to take a much closer look at their budget. And the budgets are now all coming down a lot. And the quickest, most effective way to bring a budget down is to pay the people who make the most money, which are the actors, the writers, the directors, and the producers. People who make the most money, much less, unless the thing that they make makes money. And that's what's. And that's now.

[Will Arnett]

But the trick with streaming is that the ability to calculate what a profit is becomes vague.

[Jason Blum]

Yes, yes, but it's not. It. That's. That's. That's such gobbledygook. It's the easiest thing in the world to create. You just. They. They have the data of everything. You just have to decide a penny a minute, a penny an hour. What it doesn't.

[Jason Bateman]

It's so what everybody, everybody universally decides on.

[Jason Blum]

It's way easier to, to, to. To make up a profit definition.

[Jason Bateman]

Here's the other thing that's.

[Jason Blum]

I got carried away.

[Jason Bateman]

No, no, I think this is, I think this is a great area. This is the other thing because it's. And I think that, you know, it's pretty cynical in the sense that the streamers, like you said, were given, you know, exorbitant amounts of cash to try to do that, to grow their business and to get subs. Well, it turns out that they figured out within that time, and this is probably five years ago, they realized when they started to offer things, they started to offer ad Adam, ad supported customers. They realized that their ad supported customer was worth more to them than a subscriber that they would get more return on. And so eventually, what the consumer doesn't understand that eventually we are going to be going back to the old formula from before network television. So we're just coming to the tail end of this huge fucking cycle that we was virtually meaningless. And now we're back to ad supported viewing is gonna be the thing that they are going after, et cetera. Am I right?

[Jason Blum]

Streaming is just basically. It's basically an electrified vcr. That's all it is. You can watch anything whenever you want, but otherwise it's gonna be like it was before. I don't know if I totally agree with that. But it's changed. It's changed a lot. And it's changed not very much. I do agree with most.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Because all the people that work at the streamers worked at the networks.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, that's true.

[Sean Hayes]

Almost all the same people.

[Jason Bateman]

That's true. That culture that, that culture has shifted. And all that stuff that they said that that separated them and made them different at all. The streamers now does not separate them or make them different. And it's very, very difficult.

[Will Arnett]

Well, but hang on. I mean, we're talking about something that for the most part is subscriber supported. The. The ad still is supported viewer is a small fraction of that and they.

[Jason Bateman]

Want it to be bigger.

[Jason Blum]

Not as well, not as a part of the general population because people still watch a lot of network tv. But as for streaming ad supported streaming is a smaller piece than subscription for sure.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. And it's still hard to argue with. You know, having 250 million people spending $15 a month is a pretty yummy business. If you can retain Those people month after month after month after month. And it really is, it's a retention business. It's not an ad sell business. It's.

[Jason Blum]

Well, you know, it's, it'll be, it'll be both. You'll have. And by the way, movies are, are different than, in a different category than what you guys are talking about studios. It's different. But there will be a bunch of people, a bunch of subscribers paying a premium for no ads. And then there'll be a bunch of people watching, watching programming with ads for either less or no money.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, jb, I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is that that is what they have decided that they want to move towards because it is more profitable. And I guarantee you, all of them are going to do, going to tend towards the thing that is more profitable. It's what they want.

[Will Arnett]

If it was more profitable, then why wouldn't linear television be in better health?

[Jason Bateman]

Well, there are. Because there are things that are showing up to be, that are proving that, which are things like Tubi and all these sort of fast channels types of things. These are proving to be really effective ways that people are watching stuff who don't want to have to pay the subscriber a monthly fee and who are willing to, to watch ads and that kind of stuff. That stuff is growing. It's all about what's available.

[Will Arnett]

I have Tubi. Do I have Tubi?

[Jason Bateman]

That's a long callback. That is, that's like a three year callback.

[Sean Hayes]

Jason Blum, I want to talk about your stuff because I'm a fan. And so first of all, I wanted to start. You're going to.

[Jason Bateman]

He's got 17 million questions for you.

[Sean Hayes]

I do. I do. Paranormal Activity is one of my favorite movies. I watched it a year ago with my nieces. Yep. Quote it. Well, just. I could talk about it all day long.

[Jason Bateman]

Then start.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

You keep saying you're like a rapper who goes, I'm gonna rock the microphone. Wait till I get on the mic and you're like, okay, you've got the microphone.

[Will Arnett]

Fucking do it.

[Jason Bateman]

The fuck? And when I get on the microphone, I'm really gonna then fucking do it.

[Jason Blum]

That's how I felt about this mystery product coming there.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I know.

[Sean Hayes]

That's true.

[Jason Bateman]

Fair enough. Fair enough. Oh, I'm. Oh, by the way, I'm a hypocrite in my core. What?

[Sean Hayes]

But Jay, Jason, tell me about it because wasn't it true that the studio wanted you to remake it or they didn't like it or whatever. And how did you convince them that they had gold and all that kind of stuff? Tell me this.

[Jason Blum]

Paranormal Activity. I'll do that.

[Sean Hayes]

And that, Isn't that the one. That kind of version of it.

[Jason Blum]

But yeah, yeah, yeah. That was what launched the launch of the company. But I had a guy, this very sweet fellow who I'm still friends with and a very good producer, a guy named Steven Schneider, and he was a horror expert. I had a deal at Paramount, and he had a deal with us, and we had a deal with them. And Paramount, you know, whatever, was ignoring me. And this guy Stephen showed me this movie, showed me Paranormal Activity. And I saw it, like, you know, on a DVD at my house. And it had been, you know, at a couple festivals and whatever.

[Jason Bateman]

And you were living in New York at the time?

[Jason Blum]

I was. No, I was living on Sunset Plaza in my bachelor pad on Sunset Plaza before I moved downtown. And, and. Exactly. And, and I had passed on Blair Witch Project. Like, I can't believe that.

[Sean Hayes]

And now you're remaking it?

[Jason Blum]

Yes, we're trying. We're trying. We'll see it.

[Sean Hayes]

I know, crazy.

[Jason Blum]

But, yeah, I passed on it. And I was never, like, My boss just was like, you idiot. For a year, you know, a year I had to listen. But when I saw Paranormal, I had this like, oh, my God, what if this is Blair Witch? And I didn't say, like, this movie's gonna be. I didn't think the movie's gonna be anything what it turned out to be, but I definitely thought there was something to it, and I thought it was worth screening it in front of an audience. That's what I learned from Blair Witch is if you see anything somewhat that might be good, throw it in front of an audience.

[Sean Hayes]

Yes. Cause you love testing.

[Jason Blum]

I love testing. So anyway, I smile.

[Jason Bateman]

The smile on his face when you said that.

[Sean Hayes]

No, but it's, I've heard you talk about that.

[Jason Blum]

Testing's my dream. Yeah, I, I don't like friends and family testing. I like testing with, you know, real object testing.

[Jason Bateman]

The testing, the film in front of a, in, in front of a random regular audience. And then they all fill out what they liked, what they didn't like, and.

[Jason Blum]

You get a number. I'm not such a big fan of that, but I like watching the movie with a regular crowd.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. The best feedback ever.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I, I, I, I haven't, I haven't, you know, this itch I want to scratch on this movie. And I met the director and he had Basically sold it to a. He sold it for 100 grand to direct a DVD to IFC, by the way, who, never forget, guy named Jonathan Searing was there at the time. He never forgave me for this. Cause I said, it's a deal.

[Will Arnett]

Done.

[Jason Blum]

He said, no, it's not done, but I think I'm gonna just sell it for 100 grand. I said, I think the movie should be in theaters. I told him the butter witch story. I said, give me a cut of whatever you make after you make $500,000. So I'm not gonna cost you anything unless I make five times the money you've already made. Then I want a piece, but until then, nothing. And let me come on and partner, see if I can get it made with you anyway. Three years goes by, no one wants them. I do the movie with the audience like I want to do. It's very clear. If you see the movie with an audience, it's going to be a crazy hit. It's very clear. But I'm the, you know, schmuck producer. I call everyone and say, you gotta watch this movie with an audience. They say, well, we've already seen it. We got the details. DVD here. It's sitting on my assistant's desk. And the movie sucks. And, and so good.

[Will Arnett]

That's the way a lot of conversations go in Hollywood, by the way.

[Jason Blum]

Exactly.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow.

[Sean Hayes]

We'll be right back.

[Will Arnett]

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[Sean Hayes]

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[Will Arnett]

All right, back to the show.

[Jason Blum]

So three years into this, I get, I get, you know, Paramount won't return my calls and it's, and it, you know, And I get. It still drives me crazy that the movie wound up with them because they hated the movie forever. But I get DreamWorks, this guy, Adam Goodman.

[Jason Bateman]

And I know Adam.

[Jason Blum]

You know Adam. Yeah. Remember Adam, right?

[Jason Bateman]

Great guy. Made couple movies with him.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, Adam and, and Ashley Brooks and they're working at DreamWorks and they, I, they really into the movie. I give them credit for that. And they said, but we're going to remake the movie. You know, we'll put famous people in the movie. Movies have found footage movies. So I don't know how it could work with famous people, but.

[Sean Hayes]

Right.

[Jason Blum]

I say this is my, my, my, my flash of brilliance of which I've. I've had, you know, two in my career, but this was one of them. And, and I said, I said, I will. First of all, you gotta pay me 150 grand. Cause I need more than 100 for Oren, so I gotta get him an extra 50 grand. Second, you gotta put the original movie on the DVD. When we remake the new movie, you gotta put the original movie on that DVD because I want it out there somewhere.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, wow.

[Jason Blum]

Third, you have to test the original Paranormal Activity. You have to test screen the film in Burbank with 300 people. And you add up. And it was Stacy Snyder, his boss, and Stacey Snyder. You guys have to be there. And not because I want to release the movie, because if I said that, they would have said, you're an idiot. I said, because when we remake the movie, I want to invite the writers who are going to write the remake. And I want all you executives to be there with the writers so we can decide which parts we're going to redo and which parts we're going to leave. Right? I love that.

[Sean Hayes]

I love that.

[Jason Blum]

And then I said to the director, Oren, who I give Oren so much credit for sticking with me all this time. You know, three years into this, he had 150 grand three years ago. He still stick. He's sleeping in my guest house for half the time he was in San Diego, but he used to sleep in my guest house all the time. For all these dumb meetings we would have where people would say the movies doesn't work. And I said to Oren, oren, I will bet you a nickel that if Adam and Stacy watch this movie with a recruited audience, which was impossible to do, if they watch this movie with a recruited audience, they're never gonna talk about the remake again. Just trust me. And by the way, worst case scenario, if they do, you're gonna get a buck 50 instead of 100. So it's no lose. And I still remember Oren, Stephen and I went to this screening, it was in Burbank, and Stacey was there and fucking people went insane. And three people left the theater because they were too scared. And the movie ends and everyone goes, no. And Stacy, I will never forget Stacy Snyder is at the bottom of this and she's literally. The writers were there for the remake. They disappear. And Stacy has the three of us pitching us the 30 second TV spots of how she's gonna sell the movie. The theatrical release, the movie as is. As is the remix on the table. And they. And then Steven gets. Spielberg gets the. Spielberg gets the results of the test. He sees it like two days later. He loves it. And DreamWorks is releasing our movie. And then in another thing, I won't go into it now, but DreamWorks then and Paramount split up and DreamWorks went to Disney. And Disney. DreamWorks could not have their first release be Paranormal Activity.

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right, right.

[Jason Blum]

So we were saddled with Paramount and another year of shenanigans, which is how it wound up with that.

[Jason Bateman]

No way. Another year. From that moment, it was a year.

[Jason Blum]

They said they weren't going to release it. They blackmailed us. They blackmailed us into releasing them. I've never really been this straightforward about it, but I will be now. We had, based off that test screening, we were able to sell 5 million bucks of international sales. So based off the fact that it was going to get a domestic release by a studio, we had $5 million in sales. All the France and Germany, we sold territory by territory. Right.

[Will Arnett]

You're already in profit.

[Jason Blum]

We had. Oh my God, in profit by the movie cost 15 grand. So, so, so, so we had 18 months to get the release, which, by the way, no problem. Stacy and Steven Spielberg love the movie. DreamWorks is releasing the movie. Boom. Disney were at Paramount. Paramount's like, we're not releasing the movie.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow.

[Jason Blum]

And it went on. And they.

[Will Arnett]

Why were they opposed to releasing it?

[Jason Blum]

They thought it was a piece of shit like everybody else. But what about the only. The only savior was that When Disney and DreamWorks broke up, Adam Goodman and Ashley Ashley brooks moved from DreamWorks to Paramount. So internally they were doing what I was doing on the outside. So on the outside I was. And internally they were saying, guys, you got to. But everyone was saying to them, you guys are inside saying, don't do this movie. And basically what happened in. In retrospect, his history is rewritten. Like they did this strategic smart release no. Adam and Ashley got them to agree to pay a million bucks to in PNA to do this tiny release of the movie advertising. And we contributed like, I think five or six hundred. They came to us and say, we'll only put in a million. If you take 500 of the 5 million you have from international, which we know you're going to lose. Informal. And you put 500 up and we'll put 500 up and we'll put it in. In 13 theaters, demand it. Which was only. That was that the whole marketing thing was just like, how can we spend as little money as possible to get this movie out there?

[Sean Hayes]

I mean, isn't it amazing?

[Jason Blum]

I've never really, really told incredible that. That part of the story, but it's incredible.

[Sean Hayes]

But, but it's. Isn't it amazing that you have this thing and what it takes to get people to believe in it and you just didn't stop. And isn't it fascinating that you can see it, but the people in charge can never see it? Why is that?

[Jason Blum]

Well, no, you know those stories, though. I mean, you guys know these stories too. I have a little, like, it's always annoying, the story. There's so many stories of. I believed in it and nobody didn't. And it favors the producer so much because executives, their job is to look at 400 things and pick 10. So it's an imp. They have to not believe in 390 things. So it's not really fair. Producer's job is to pick 20 things, believe in all of them, and 10 go, you know, whatever it is. So I always think those stories are kind of dopey. And including this story, like, I don't.

[Sean Hayes]

It's fascinating, though.

[Jason Blum]

No, I don't, but it's fascinating. Except it's not like I give myself credit for that one thing of putting that language in the test screening. But anyone, any of you or anyone, if you saw the movie with an audience before it came out, you would know it was a hit. It's just I couldn't get anyone into the theater. There was no genius of knowing that.

[Sean Hayes]

But you did. And it still took all of that work to get it, you know?

[Jason Blum]

Well, I had no clout. I had no clout. You know, it's like this little, you know, this guy with no. Like, I had no track record. I produced six independent movies. They were all terrible. One was okay and five were horrible. So it was like, why am I gonna. Why am I gonna waste my night and be away from my kids by this schmuck put it when everyone in my team has seen the movie and they think it's not good. Which, by the way, which I get too.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

How under the hood do you like to get creatively as far as like script notes and edit notes and all that?

[Jason Blum]

I hate being on set. I like running my production company. I give usually a couple of notes on a script, a few notes on a cut, depending on the cut. Sometimes, sometimes I give more notes on the finished movie than the script. But Cooper Samuelson, who, you know, well.

[Will Arnett]

He'S the, he's the great Cooper Samuelson.

[Jason Blum]

He's the great. We've been together 10 years and he, he really runs the. He. No, he does run the movie company and he is very. He and his team are extremely involved.

[Will Arnett]

What would you say is your fastball then, like identifying a filmmaker, a concept, a script? Where do you think your, your greatest talent lies if it's, if it's not getting in there under the hood, day to day, quality control, et cetera, et cetera?

[Jason Blum]

Well, I'm a great picker. I'm a good picker. I'm a very good picker. I am a good picker. So that is quality control. And I'm a good seller, you know, and I'm not talking about. It's easy to raise money for the movies now, but I'm good at talking people into working for me, you know, working for us. You know, I'm good at it. But I have. It's a good, it's an easy thing for me. It's an easy thing to sell because I believe it. I really believe in our model and I believe in the company and I believe the model leads to movies and shows.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

And the only thing that I was going to say is there's, there are really no other companies that just do one thing. And that's been a huge advantage to us. And now, you know, the, the second, the, the, the, the second. The only other company that really does just do one thing like we do at scale is James Wan's Atomic Monster and now Atomic Monster and Blumhouse. You know, we put the companies together. Yeah. 16 months ago. And it's a huge advantage to not do horror as like a side hustle, you know, which that's what the studios do, obviously. But also most production company, most other production companies, they do all the thing. And we do the occasional horror movie and that's all we do. I see every horror movie, Mom.

[Jason Bateman]

That's. Of course you're good at it because that is what you Do. You're a specialty, you understand? And now you have. You're doing it with James Wan. Talk a little bit about your. Your relationship with James Wan and, And. And how that came to be.

[Jason Blum]

Well, we. I'm interested in growing the company, and I really felt like this kind of. This is actually kind of. It kind of ties together a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about.

[Sean Hayes]

It's.

[Jason Bateman]

That.

[Jason Blum]

Is that I. I don't believe you can make. Let's just talk about movies and not TV for a second. I don't believe you can make movies. You can. You can make more movies that are good by just. Just hiring more people. Right. And remember, we only get paid if our movies are good or if they work. If they don't work, we don't get paid. So for us to go from four or five movies a year to seven or eight movies a year, we have to keep the quality the same. If the quality goes down, it's a disaster. So the only way for us to grow is to go from four or five to six or seven. And it was my view that the only way to get to six or seven was to bring in a partner. Not just a. Hire former executives, but to bring in a partner who was a visionary who was doing this on his own. And if you take Blumhouse and Atomic Monster and if those two companies just continue to do what the companies have done on their own the last 10 years, it's like 60% of theatrically released horror movies have been done by those two companies.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. Talk a little bit. James Wan. Some of the things.

[Jason Blum]

So James Wan, first of all, he's a massive director. Separate business. Aquaman, Fast and Furious. Right. But he. He birthed Insidious with Us, which is how I met him. But he's dead. He. He's. The Atomic Monster is best known as the production company behind the Conjuring universe. So all the Conjuring movies. Annabelle La Llorona.

[Jason Bateman]

Huge. Huge.

[Jason Blum]

It's a mat. Yeah. The nun. The nun 2. None too. You know, no one ever talks about none 2 was the second highest grossing horror movie of all time last year. $270 million.

[Sean Hayes]

Wow.

[Jason Blum]

No one talks about it in Hollywood.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

So anyway, so next year 25 is our first year, where our release date slate will be. We're up to our eight movies. We have Wolfman. We have two original movies. We have a Chris Landon movie called Drop. And then we have Megan. Then we have Black Phone. Then we have Five Nights at Freddy's two. And then we and then these guys have a Mortal Kombat movie and a Conjuring 5 movie.

[Sean Hayes]

Wow.

[Jason Blum]

So next year is our big year.

[Jason Bateman]

What percentage of box office does horror make up now in domestically?

[Jason Blum]

It's like a billion dollars a year. Billion dollars a year, which is what it's like. It's about eight, nine, about a little, right? About 10%.

[Will Arnett]

Good Lord.

[Jason Bateman]

So every awards show where we're lauding all these other people, they should do the first five minutes. Should just be a standing O for you and Juan, just to say thank you for keeping us all at work. And now let's get to the Oscars.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jason Bateman]

Five minutes standing O. Blum.

[Will Arnett]

Right. And they are starting a long time ago. They got really cinematic and less sort of like, you know, the rap they used to give with slasher and exploitative and whatnot. They're like beautifully made films now.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. There's less T and A. I will say that.

[Jason Blum]

Not to knock it now. Do you know, I heard maybe somebody sort of talked to you about this on the show, but do you know, I heard that kids don't want TNA in movies now because there's so much of it on the Internet that they don't want TNA in movies anymore.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow. No kidding.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah. Real progress.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. And they don't want their driver's license either. Cause there's Uber, you know, if you can get it somewhere else, I don't want it here.

[Sean Hayes]

Jason Blum, I'm a big fan of Get Out. And, you know, we don't have time to go through it because we gotta let you go. But I didn't know.

[Will Arnett]

God, you're already over time, Jason.

[Jason Bateman]

This might be the. This might be the quickest we've ever gotten to it and feel like we're just starting.

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, we really are. I got so much more to go into.

[Jason Bateman]

God, I thought you were going to be a disappointing guest.

[Jason Blum]

I know. In four years.

[Jason Bateman]

Bateman. Bateman kept saying, I'm not going to respond to this guy's email.

[Will Arnett]

Respond to him.

[Jason Blum]

No, I can imagine. Before the show. Said, did Blum email you the other week?

[Jason Bateman]

Who's going to let. Who's. Who's going to break first? And then Sean. Oh, my gosh. Sean broke first. Wait, Sean had a question, though. Do ask it, caller.

[Sean Hayes]

No. Well, it's too long to get into, and I can probably just Google it, but I did not know there was a different ending to get out.

[Jason Blum]

There was. That was a note I had. That was.

[Jason Bateman]

I had.

[Jason Blum]

There was an end date to get out Where Daniel died and. Or wound up in jail. Wound up in jail. Something terrible.

[Will Arnett]

Terrible. Did they write it?

[Jason Blum]

Did they show? Yeah, we shot it. It was at the test screening, and we tested it, and me and my very, like, you know, not, not, not thoughtful self, I come bounding down the aisle. I'm like, jordan, the movie's great. You cannot leave this end. I, like, I didn't. I didn't hedge. I didn't. Like, you have to change the end. I said, daniel is too good. Everyone is in love with him. The movie's amazing, and you cannot end him with him in jail. Like, it's just. It's horrible.

[Will Arnett]

And did Jordan say, yeah, but that was your idea?

[Jason Blum]

Yeah, he said, yeah, he said, but that was your note.

[Jason Bateman]

No, you sent me that note from the back of your van. You were. You said you were on Cat.

[Jason Blum]

You idiot. You idiot. No, he was a man. No, I pitched him some horrible idea of what it should be to keep.

[Sean Hayes]

So in the original, she. I forget the name of the character. The girl in it, the lead girl.

[Jason Blum]

Allison Williams.

[Sean Hayes]

Allison Williams. I haven't seen her in a long time, but she ends up getting him in jail. Is that what it is?

[Jason Blum]

I think now I'm forgetting, but I think the end. He's in jail. He winds up in jail. Like, there's a scene of him.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Jason Blum]

How it is so sad. And. And. And Jordan, you know, a month later, he had a new idea for the end. He reshot it and.

[Will Arnett]

And what a filmmaking. He is.

[Sean Hayes]

Amazing. Amazing. Tell me your favorite horror film.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, just a softball right here at the end.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. Just so we can alienate everybody he works with other than the person he names.

[Will Arnett]

Any funny stories of you going up on a line on stage?

[Jason Blum]

I like Hitchcock movies. Those are my favorite. You know, and terms of like those, that's. Those are my. Those are my inspiration movies.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Okay, so listen, you got to get out of here. We got to get out of here.

[Jason Bateman]

What movies. What Blumhouse movies are we going to go to? Are people going to come and see in 2025? Tell us right now.

[Sean Hayes]

He just did.

[Jason Blum]

I did. Man is Wolf Man. Wolfman is January. It's great. It's Lee Whannell who did the Invisible Man. It's amazing that.

[Will Arnett]

Julia Garner.

[Jason Blum]

Julia Garner and Chris Abbott. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Wolfman is January. Okay?

[Jason Blum]

Wolfman is January. This original movie by Chris Landon, who did Happy Death Day.

[Will Arnett]

Michael Landon son.

[Jason Blum]

Michael Landon's son called drop with Megan FY, which is great.

[Jason Bateman]

Drop.

[Jason Blum]

And then we have Megan 2.

[Jason Bateman]

Megan 2.

[Will Arnett]

Summer release.

[Jason Blum]

Summer release. Then we have Black Phone 2.

[Sean Hayes]

Black Ethan Hawk.

[Jason Blum]

That's Scott Derrickson with the great Ethan Hawk with the great Ethan Grabber.

[Will Arnett]

Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

I thought they caught him. Yeah.

[Jason Blum]

Then we have Five Nights at Freddy's two. Now, clearly you guys missed the first one, but you. 10 nights at Freddy, you got 12 months to see the first and then.

[Will Arnett]

See the second, you know, on Friday night, Christmas release.

[Jason Blum]

Christmas release. If you're doing the math, December release. And our friends at Atomic Monster have the next conjuring movie. Have Mortal Kombat. So it's.

[Jason Bateman]

It's a full slate of great movies. It's a monster year you should consider doing you should consider doing the year after for Five Nights at Freddy, do it as a Christmas movie. 12 Nights at Freddy tied into Christmas. It's a great idea. That's a freebie. You're welcome.

[Will Arnett]

It's. This is from us to you.

[Jason Bateman]

Lumhouse is bringing you all the movies you want to see. Go and go and see them. We urge you. We urge you to go and see him. And you're an unbelievable guest.

[Will Arnett]

Well, you're an unbelievable, unbelievable guy.

[Jason Blum]

Took me four years, but I. There was a lot of pressure. I had to make it worth it. You delivered. Thank you, guys.

[Jason Bateman]

Delivered.

[Jason Blum]

Thank you, Jason. I appreciate it.

[Will Arnett]

Say hi to Lauren, please.

[Jason Blum]

Okay, I will. Lots of love to all of you.

[Will Arnett]

Love you.

[Sean Hayes]

And congrats, by the way, your new.

[Jason Blum]

Thank you. Thank you. Our little daughter.

[Will Arnett]

Bye, buddy.

[Jason Bateman]

All right.

[Jason Blum]

Thanks, guys.

[Will Arnett]

Bye, pal. The man has a gift for Gab. You know, we could expand this to. To 4 hosts very easily coming.

[Sean Hayes]

But aside from. Totally. Aside from buying a movie from him, I would buy a house from him.

[Jason Bateman]

I know.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

I'd let him shovel my driveway. Yeah, I'd let him shovel my driveway.

[Will Arnett]

I'd let him fix my wiring with the electric vehicle. Man. No. A very, very good person. And so is his wife. And it's just. I don't know.

[Sean Hayes]

A good guy. I mean, and a perfect example of. Of how to succeed, you know, like when you. When you're kind of starting out in this business, if there's any young producers out there, it's a perfect person to kind of, you know, look for inspiration of how he did it.

[Will Arnett]

I know, but it's like, how would you. What. But how would you say, like. Like, you know, he does have. It's trying to break down. Like, what. What's the recipe to become Jason Blond?

[Sean Hayes]

His personality. But.

[Will Arnett]

I mean, but not to belittle his ability in the business and that skills is an enormous part of this industry, no matter what lane you're in.

[Jason Bateman]

That's true. And I will say this, and I. I will say he has the. The. The. I was thinking about it too, throughout the thing. Like, what is it makes him so successful other than he's got. He says as that he's a good picker. He's got tremendous people skills. He understands. But he's really smart.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And so you have to be a.

[Sean Hayes]

Lot of things and he's a lot.

[Jason Bateman]

So, like, it's a good place to start is being really smart.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, J.B. nothing.

[Will Arnett]

Huh? Oh, no. I was looking at a text and I thought, are we going to.

[Sean Hayes]

Now we know why you're not himattentive.

[Jason Bateman]

Now we know why you're not him. Because he would never do that.

[Will Arnett]

No. No. Not at all. Well, Rob Armyarve, stop fucking texting me while we're doing the wrap up. God damn it.

[Sean Hayes]

I was texting you.

[Will Arnett]

We have to have pickups. We have pickups. We have to get to. So let's get to a buy. Sean, you have anything on the list?

[Sean Hayes]

I don't have anything on the list that fits.

[Jason Bateman]

Really?

[Will Arnett]

How about, you know, let's try a new thing. I'm gonna give you a word here that I'd like for you to work into a buy. Okay. And the word is bifurcate. Okay. Will, would you like to go first?

[Jason Bateman]

We did that one last week. Right.

[Will Arnett]

Okay. How about.

[Sean Hayes]

How about a. How about a buyback? What's a buyback?

[Will Arnett]

A buyback.

[Sean Hayes]

What is a buyback?

[Will Arnett]

Somebody with two backs. A buyback would be if you wanted to purchase something back from somebody.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, I would never want to do that to one of his films. I would never want to go into his film after seeing something so spectacular and ask for.

[Will Arnett]

You would never need to.

[Sean Hayes]

I would never need to go into it.

[Jason Bateman]

I feel like this is going to be. I feel like this is going to be really lazy.

[Sean Hayes]

No need a buy back.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, no.

[Sean Hayes]

Even. We all even saw it coming. What's that, Michael?

[Jason Blum]

Instead of get out. It could be be called by Byee.

[Sean Hayes]

There you go.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, yes.

[Sean Hayes]

It didn't clear.

[Will Arnett]

It was already taken. But yeah. The original title for get out was by.

[Sean Hayes]

That's good.

[Jason Blum]

Smart Less.

[Jason Bateman]

Smart less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terr, Rob Armjarv and Bennett Barbico. Smart Less.

[Will Arnett]

Hello, friends. Jason here. We are so excited that Smartless has officially joined the SiriusXM family. We can't wait to announce new surprise guests who we know that you'll love. And if you want to be the first to hear new episodes ad free and a whole week early, subscribe to Sirius XM podcasts plus plus on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

[Jason Blum]

NetCredit is here to say yes because you're more than a credit score.

[Sean Hayes]

Apply in minutes and get a decision.

[Jason Blum]

As soon as the same day.

[Sean Hayes]

Loans offered by NetCredit or lending partner banks and service by NetCredit application subject.

[Jason Blum]

To review and approval. Learn more at netcredit.com partners NetCredit credit to the people.