"RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson"

Summary

SmartLess Podcast: "RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson"

Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: Paul Thomas Anderson
Release Date: October 9, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of “SmartLess” features renowned filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson (PTA) in a wide-ranging, candid, and often hilarious conversation. The hosts—Jason, Sean, and Will—delve into Anderson’s creative process, his family history in show business, writing habits, thoughts on cinema’s shifting landscape, and personal life, including his relationship with Maya Rudolph. The tone is relaxed and improvisational, peppered with warm nostalgia, affectionate ribbing, and genuine admiration, making it both insightful and entertaining for film enthusiasts and casual listeners alike.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Paul Thomas Anderson’s Family Roots in Entertainment

• Anderson reveals his early exposure to show business through his father, who was the promo “voice of ABC.”

• [10:58] Jason: “Your dad was the voice of ABC for all of my years growing up in Los Angeles.”

• They discuss how PTA’s father influenced the standard use of shotgun microphones for network promos.

• [13:33] Sean: “Were you close to him?”
  [13:34] PTA: “Yeah, very. I got to go... be around anything that was show business related. That was magical to me.”

2. Beginnings of a Filmmaker

• PTA talks about his childhood experiences hanging out behind the scenes at ABC and being inspired by the camaraderie between technicians.

  [15:33] PTA: “For as long as my memories are there, I've wanted to make films for sure... Movies is like this gold ring. Not everybody gets to make movies, you know.”

• Writing was a passion from a young age, with PTA crediting his mother for providing him with the script of Monty Python’s Holy Grail as a learning tool for formatting.

3. The Writing Process

• PTA expresses a natural inclination toward writing:
  [18:17] PTA: “The writing part always excited me because I liked it... putting paper into a typewriter and typing out ideas.”

• He discusses the evolution of “Boogie Nights,” which started as a short mockumentary he wrote and filmed as a teenager, “The Dirk Diggler Story.”

  [27:07] Paul: “I wrote a short film that was called the Dirk Diggler Story. That was what Boogie Nights became.”

• The challenge and pleasure of adapting the same material across formats and years shaped his approach to storytelling.

4. On Inspiration and Thematic Process

• Anderson admits he does not begin scripts with a “theme” in mind—he prefers to focus on the facts and let deeper meanings emerge organically.

  [31:09] PTA: “Can you write a theme? I can never write a theme... I always have more like facts… What really happens here?”

• He finds films that overindulge in theme “annoying and boring.”

• The process is iterative, with editing and collaboration revealing additional depths.

5. Creative Collaboration

• Emphasizes the joy of collaboration, citing experiences with renowned production designer Jack Fisk and composer Jonny Greenwood (Radiohead).

  [35:53] PTA: “Well, it’s the joy of collaboration, particularly when you’re doing it with somebody that you love and work with.”

• Notable production stories:

  • Jack Fisk’s advice: Use children’s books for initial research—simple, clear illustrations spark ideas more readily than technical tomes.

6. Comedy Influences & Personal Life

• PTA is a huge comedy fan, which is reflected both in his film work and his personal life—being married to Maya Rudolph (noted by the hosts and himself as “the funniest woman in Hollywood”).

  [51:03] PTA: “It’s funny. I guess it's like anything... people making serious films really just love comedies, you know.”

• Relates the story of seeing Maya’s name as a new SNL cast member and immediately feeling his life had changed, eventually returning from London to New York to see her.

  [54:51] PTA: “I can remember seeing her name on that piece of paper… you realize your life just changed.”

7. Casting Legends: Boogie Nights & Leonardo DiCaprio

• Sean inquires about the longstanding rumor that Leonardo DiCaprio was once up for the lead in Boogie Nights.

  [25:47] PTA: “I asked Leo to be in Boogie Nights... he had a choice: Titanic or Boogie Nights. He chose Titanic. We laugh about it now, but he, you know, regrets missing the experience and doing it. But that's true.”

8. The State of Theaters vs. Streaming

• Sean sparks a conversation on the current state of cinema distribution.

  • PTA laments the decline of theater quality and extols the communal moviegoing experience.

  [41:44] PTA: “There's probably, you know, 30 theaters in this country where it would look great and sound great and the rest are filth. I'm sorry, but... I can understand why everybody says, like, oh, piss off, I'm staying at home.”

• He points out specialty theaters in big cities are thriving, indicating there is still a passionate audience for quality films.

  [43:11] PTA: “If you go to any of the great theaters, let's say in LA or New York that are playing specialty programming, they're packed.”

9. Film vs. Limited Series: On Storytelling Economy

• PTA is wary of the trend towards stretching 80-minute stories into bloated multi-part miniseries.

  [58:14] PTA: “80-minute stories being turned into like nine-part, you know, things that... just seems to be the kind of the call of the day… piss off. This is stretched out way too much.”

  [59:09] PTA: “People say... 'You gotta wait nine episodes in.' Yeah, just wait. Piss off.”

10. Film Preservation and Working with Scorsese

• PTA discusses his collaboration with Martin Scorsese’s Film Foundation and the importance of film history and preservation.

  [46:11] PTA: “Being a part of his Film foundation has been one of the great honors of my life. It’s great.”

11. Family, Home Life, and Being Present

• On balancing an intense career with parenthood (he and Maya have four kids):

  [63:08] PTA: “One of the benefits of writing... is, you know, the ability to work from home, the ability to be present.”

• Practical about time away during long shoots (“as long as I'm with you the other chunk of time, you won’t miss me that much”).

12. Los Angeles and California as Storytelling Subjects

• Will and Jason praise PTA’s cinematic depiction of LA and the Valley—he is uniquely able to elevate the region’s stories to mythic status.
• [65:16] Bateman: “Tarantino says any great filmmaker only has 10 films in them. You’ve made nine. Tell me that’s not true.”

  [65:27] PTA: “Oh, that’s horseshit. I don’t even. I don’t understand what he’s on about... What else are you gonna do?”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• PTA on resisting forced themes:

  “Films that overindulge in telling me the theme are annoying, you know, and boring.” (34:01)

• On Leo & Boogie Nights:

  “He had a choice... Titanic or Boogie Nights. He chose Titanic. We laugh about it now, but he regrets missing the experience.” (25:47)

• On streaming and poor theater experiences:

  “There’s probably, you know, 30 theaters in this country where it would look great and sound great and the rest are filth.” (42:11)

• On meeting Maya Rudolph:

  “I can remember seeing her name on that piece of paper. You realize your life has just changed. I don’t know how, I don’t know why, I don’t know what just happened.” (54:51)

• On being a present parent and filmmaker:

  “One of the benefits of writing, I suppose, is... the ability to work from home, the ability to be present.” (63:08)

• On Tarantino’s “ten films” theory:

  “That’s horseshit. ... What else are you gonna do?” (65:27)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Key Segment | |-------------|-----------------------------------------------| | 07:16 | Jason introduces Paul Thomas Anderson | | 10:58 | Discussing PTA’s father, ABC’s promo voice | | 13:33-14:28 | PTA on his close relationship with his father | | 15:33-18:17 | Early filmmaking inspirations | | 18:17-20:03 | Writing origin, learning script formatting | | 25:47 | Leo DiCaprio & Boogie Nights | | 27:07 | "Dirk Diggler Story" and evolving a story | | 31:09-34:00 | On writing process: facts vs. theme | | 35:53-39:16 | Collaborating with Jack Fisk, Jonny Greenwood | | 41:38-43:58 | Streaming vs. theatrical releases | | 46:11 | Film preservation, Scorsese’s Film Foundation | | 51:03-55:09 | How PTA met Maya Rudolph | | 57:54-58:59 | Adam Sandler's talent in Punch-Drunk Love | | 58:14-60:33 | Limited series vs. movies, storytelling time | | 65:16-65:49 | Tarantino’s “10 films” claim rebutted | | 66:12-66:51 | Will and Jason praise PTA’s career/longevity |

---

Episode Highlights

• Fun banter around the origin of “Boogie Nights” and the “Leo vs. Mark Wahlberg” casting anecdote.
• In-depth reflection on the writing and evolution of stories, with insights into adaptation over time.
• Honest critique of the modern entertainment landscape, especially the future of non-blockbuster films in theaters versus streaming.
• A moving, romantic account of how PTA met and fell for Maya Rudolph, revealing his emotional, less-public side.
• A thoughtful perspective on parenthood, creativity, and remaining grounded in a notoriously demanding industry.

---

Final Thoughts

“SmartLess” with Paul Thomas Anderson is a must-listen for anyone interested in film, storytelling, or the intricacies of creative collaboration. The episode skillfully blends comedic improvisation with meaningful exchanges and candid wisdom about filmmaking, personal growth, and adapting to an evolving industry. Anderson’s humility, humor, and intelligence make his appearance a rich, engaging masterclass in both craft and life.

---

For more, listen to the full episode on SiriusXM Podcasts+ or your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[A]

With Sylvania, seeing better while driving at night starts with you. Because headlight bulbs dim over time and can lose up to 50ft of visibility before burnout. That's why you shouldn't wait. Upgrade your drive with brighter lights for better visibility on the road ahead. Sylvania's step by step installation guides make it easier than ever to take control of your nighttime clarity. All without a trip to the mechanic. So before a burnout darkens your day, upgrade til Sylvania and see better tonight.

[B]

Cracker Barrel has always been about full plates and full hearts. But now they've turned up the heat. With more to love, more to discover, and more country anytime. We're talking buttermilk pancakes that don't judge you for ordering them at 6pm Classics like chicken and dumplings your southern alter ego would have made. And a country store that somehow has everything you didn't know you needed. It's the same cozy vibe, but with a fresh coat of charm. Cracker Barrel is giving you all the more of what you already love. Like chicken fried chicken or all the different toys they have on offer. Like the infamous peg game. See how Cracker Barrel is bringing you more crave worthy comforts, country hospitality and all the more to enjoy. Swing by and visit Cracker Barrel today. Okay, here we go. This is gonna be a Smartless episode. Let's tune up the ears, get the wax out.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

The papers are getting set, the prep is done. Okay, ready? Here we go. You guys ready? Ready to talk?

[C]

Guys, guys, guys.

[A]

What?

[C]

It's an all new smartless.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

Smart.

[A]

Sm.

[B]

Smart.

[A]

Smart.

[C]

Lettuce.

[A]

Okay. Hey guys, look. Wait. Check this out.

[C]

Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. Start right away.

[B]

Yeah. Have you been preparing, Sean?

[C]

You see that?

[B]

Look at the construction.

[A]

No, that sign.

[C]

Right. My finger is Chicago.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Wow, wow, wow. Did you know that a week ago that you were going to be staying in that apartment?

[A]

I knew the name of it, but I didn't know where it was.

[B]

Yeah, Sean for the listener. Sean started his stay there. What is it gonna be like a multi month stay in Chicago, right? Yeah, three months.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The first night he was there was Valentine's and appropriately, he and Scotty saw a couple consummating Valentine's. Right.

[A]

Directly across the street.

[B]

And like in kind of like it wasn't even like it was. All the lights were on. It was somewhat impromptu. We won't get into the graphic details of it, but it was clearly an office building. Not a planned consummation.

[C]

No. All parties were upright. Is the Point.

[B]

It was half a wobbly H. Okay.

[A]

Isn't that wild? And Scotty's like. I go, what are you looking at? And he's like, come over to this window.

[B]

Wait, how long was he looking out the window before you noticed he was staring?

[C]

It was a minute. And he kept saying. And he kept saying, come look at these people in love. Right? He kept saying, look at these people.

[A]

I mean, they were going out.

[B]

This is love. In case you didn't know, it's Valentine's Day.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Now, do you think they wanted to be seen? That's why the shades were up?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I think people are just used to living. Well, Will, you can speak to this. You've lived in New York City. Do you just get used to the fact that people might be watching you, or do you. Well, that.

[C]

I think you go back and forth. I think that you. You have moments where you're like, oh, my God. And then you also have moments where you're like. You just live your life and you don't think about it. You can't. You can't think about it all the time.

[B]

I mean, you could pull the shades down.

[C]

Sure, I will. I would suggest that those people who are engaged in that. In that moment didn't care. And in fact, that that probably was there to heighten their experience.

[B]

Now, Shaunie, you're back out on the road. How's. We'll get to our guests here. Apologies. But, Shani, how's the first few days of rehearsal going on?

[C]

How's Oscar Levant?

[D]

Good.

[B]

So Sean's doing. It's not a musical, right. It's got some music in it, but it's a play.

[C]

No, no, it's a play. It's a play.

[B]

Okay, so he's going. So he's there now. He's. A weekend of rehearsals, and it's pretty arduous to rehearse a play for the listener. And, Sean, are you loving it or having regrets?

[A]

Oh, my God, I love it so much. I mean, it's a ton of work, but thank you for asking. Yeah, it's a ton of work, but really rewarding. You know what I love the most is the. We're in the process of sitting around talking about the play page by page, making sure everything makes sense and the backstory informs what the characters are doing. It's kind of.

[B]

Is this the first time the play is being done?

[A]

Yeah, it's a brand new play by Doug Wright, who won the Pulitzer for I Am My Own Wife, and he wrote the movie Quills and Amazing writer.

[C]

Well, let's plug Doug for sure.

[B]

You know, does he have a website?

[C]

Jesus.

[A]

Oh, by the way, it's called Good night Oscar. It's called Good Night, Oscar.

[B]

Where can people find their tickets?

[C]

Audience across the country knows Oscar Levant backstage at the Tonight Show. Nobody's going to go to the play now. Everybody feels like they've already seen it.

[A]

Well, maybe they'll check out Murderville again.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Let's give that.

[C]

That's not a bad idea. That's not a bad.

[B]

How's that doing? Well, people seem to really be enjoying it.

[C]

It's been very nice to see people enjoy it and have fun with listener.

[B]

That's a show on Netflix called Murderville that Will Arnett brought to all of us. It's very.

[C]

And you know. Well, so we'll go from that. So from Good Night Oscar to Murderville to the other big question. We got a lot on the tour, which is Jason. When are the final six episodes of.

[B]

It's seven, but not a big deal.

[C]

Seven.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

I wanted to surprise people with the seventh. Sorry.

[B]

There's a bonus Y to the credits. There's one more. They're going to announce that soon, but it's going to. I cannot say. But it will be soon. All right, here comes our guest, y'.

[D]

All.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[B]

All right, Sean. Well, today I get into a little bit of trouble with you guys. I apologize. I know that you hate it when I bring an academic on or scientist, big brains in general. But this guy seems to.

[A]

None of us really.

[B]

Just hold on. He seems to really be liked by those who have taken his class. All right. He's been teaching filmmaking for almost 30 years now. And out of of the top institutions in town, he's taught his students mostly through doing in that he's managed to gather the funds necessary to himself, make nine films on subjects as odd as a single digit, nighttime mucus, party drinks, hemophilia, major golf tournament addiction, haunted textiles and Italian candy. And if you can believe it, these films have yielded him 11 Academy Award nominations. Most importantly, though, he's got four kids, a house in the valley, and married to the coolest woman we three know. Gang, it's Paul Thomas Anderson. No.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Hi, guys. It's so good to see you.

[B]

Did you guys have a guest with that list of. Of subject matters?

[C]

You really had me reeling on that.

[B]

Did I bury it good?

[D]

Yeah. That's a great intro, huh?

[B]

I worked on that for a full nine minutes this Morning.

[C]

Paul, would you have been able to guess yourself with that intro?

[B]

Come on, now, let's. Let's guess it. So a single digit. Which one is that, man? I did it in order. A single digit, obviously, is heart 8. Nighttime mucus.

[D]

Nighttime mucus.

[B]

Come on, Boogie nights, y'. All. Party drinks.

[C]

Oh, God. Oh, my God.

[B]

Party drinks. We've got Punch Drunk Love, Hemophilia. There Will Be Blood. Major golf tournament. Obviously, the Master addiction is inherent vice. Haunted textiles. We know and love Phantom Thread and Italian Candy. Out in theaters now.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

The Valley Famous Licorice Pizza Record store.

[A]

That's incredible.

[B]

All right.

[D]

Pretty good.

[B]

I'm so proud of myself. Paul.

[A]

Can.

[C]

You can see.

[B]

I'm just beaming. Guys, we can't do early morning records. I'm still.

[C]

That's like the USA Today crossword version, you know what I mean?

[B]

Oh, man.

[D]

Wait. But Oscar Levant is one of my heroes.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Oh, you go, you two. You two.

[A]

He's amazing, isn't he?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

You know, there's a great Oscar Levant show that he did that was here on KTLA, Channel 5. And Fred Astaire was one of the.

[A]

That's exactly right.

[D]

It was impossible to find forever and ever and ever.

[A]

I have the whole thing if you want it.

[D]

No. Well, I remember it was this impossible to find thing. And then when this thing, YouTube came around, I remember thinking, I'll see if this thing can really find something I want. And I put in the Oscar Levant show, and there it was. I said, oh, my God, I like YouTube. It was great. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Dear Mr. YouTube, great job.

[B]

What's your. While I'm thinking of it. Cause my brain doesn't hold stuff. Well, the first shot in Magnolia was that when you go through the hallways and you go onto the soundstage, Isn't that the Tonight show stage? Yes, at. Yes. Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Speaking of Tonight Show, Oscar Levant, all that stuff.

[D]

Yeah. What is it called? Officially, it's NBC. It's where the Tonight show with Johnny Carson, you know, they did that. But they also did the local news there. They had. You know, I remember a big deal was that we were shooting, and we had to. We had. It was the days of Paul Moyer. Do you remember Paul Moyer?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

And we just needed to move his space over, you know, a couple spots. And it was like, you know, three days of negotiations to move Paul Moyer spot. I do remember he was not having it. And it was on a Sunday. He wasn't even shooting.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

He wasn't even There. He just didn't want his stuff messed with.

[D]

He just didn't want his spot messed with.

[B]

Somehow I remember. I don't know how I'm remembering this. He had a. A bright. I think it was a bright red 911 DP Targa. Like one of those with the big whale tails. I like it. Yeah.

[C]

Really cut you off once on.

[B]

No, I just remember being taken that a local newsman would have some big ass, flashy, cool car, and he pulled it off, that guy. Very, very cool.

[D]

Yeah, he was a hand it hand toand fight with him. And Ron Burgundy would be great. It was the very similar kind of.

[B]

You know, speaking of cool network newsmen, kind of a little bit of a reach. Your dad was the voice of ABC for all of my years growing up in Los Angeles.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. Like, if I, If I played that voice for you, you would, you'd. It'd knock you out. You'd be like, oh, my God, that's Paul's dad. No question there. I just want to mention that as something very, very cool.

[C]

Well, actually, so, Paul, we've talked about this briefly before, once, because you mentioned your dad was the voice of abc, as you said. And he, he was like the original real promo guy on networks.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And my recollection is. And so I'm going to say this, and then you can tell me what you know about this. And if I'm wrong, he would record the promos for all the network. And the promo guys are. When you watch the show, when you're watching a network and you hear coming up tonight at 8pm it's an all new blah, blah, blah, follow about that.

[A]

Oh, that was your dad. That was your dad.

[C]

And your dad would sit in the, in the room with the engineer right next to the board, and he had a 416, a shotgun mic, and he was the first guy to do that in that way. Is that right?

[D]

I. I don't know for sure if that's exactly that technical thing, but that, the image of that shotgun mike, you know, he would never go into the booth. He wanted to do it in the control room.

[C]

Was he. Cuz he was actually in real time wanting the. Telling the guy how to modulate his voice and do all the EQ and.

[D]

Stuff, I think that had something to do with it too. And I think he. I think he was smart enough or done it enough to know, like, I'm not going in the booth. I'm gonna be with you guys. You know, it's gonna be exactly the same. I'M not. You know, he also liked to smoke while he was doing it too. And I think the other guys.

[B]

Willie likes that. Willie does a little of that.

[C]

Not in the booth, not anymore. But I will say that like. And then I'll get out of the weeds on this. So traditionally, all the voiceover guys, especially in New York, where a lot of it used to be done back in the day, everybody used the mic. That's a very common that I do have over here, what we refer to as an 87. A U87. And it's a great microphone.

[B]

Oh, thanks. Well, of course.

[A]

Keep going.

[D]

88.

[C]

Your dad changed that by using that shotgun mic, and he forever changed and it became the west coast microphone. So when I would come out here and go to a recording studio, they'd always have a shotgun mic. And it was because of your dad that that became the standard, like the.

[A]

Johnny Carson one that was on his desk. Is that what a shotgun mic is? What is that?

[C]

No, that. No, no.

[A]

Okay, bye, everybody.

[C]

Oh, see you later, Sean.

[B]

So, Paul, you did not know that, huh?

[D]

No, that sounds fantastic to me. And it doesn't seem too far from. From accurate even. You know, he, he, he did obsess over that kind of stuff, and I probably passed a little bit of it on to me, you know.

[A]

Were you close to him?

[D]

Yeah, very.

[A]

Oh, that's nice.

[D]

I got to go. You know, I had had that opportunity to go to Prospect in Talmadge was where he would go to work at abc. And you know, generally that was sort of my first taste of being around anything that was show business related. And that was magical to me.

[B]

How old were you at that point?

[D]

Anywhere between the ages of probably five and, you know, nine. 75 to 70.

[C]

Did it strike you as being like a peculiar thing for your dad to do? I can say from my own experience, and I ask this because I say to my kids sometimes, like it's when they do stuff or I do stuff, they come in a work related environment. Like, it's weird, right, that this is what you're. Because it's weird to me. If my dad had done it and I sort of acknowledge it, was it. Did it seem strange or just because it was your dad?

[D]

It seems strange only because it was not. I was proud of him, but no one else could recognize this, the pride, you know, it's such a behind the scenes gig. There's nothing kind of famous about it. You know, you don't walk down the street and somebody say, like, wow, there he is, you know, or Your dad's a baseball player, hit Roman runs like. Well, you know, there's no recognition to it, really, but that's what he loved about it so much, was that he could just kind of have this independent life, coyoteing around town, you know, doing his work and getting paid for it.

[B]

So you're sitting there, you're watching kind of the sausage get made for television in some aspect. And were you at that point starting to gather these images and interest in this process and what it. Oh, these are the people that are behind the curtain that create at least this lane of fake life, and that started to build an idea for you about what you might want to do or can you track the moment that you thought, I. I want to do something like this.

[D]

I can't remember because for as long as my memories are there, I've wanted to. To make films for sure. But you have to remember, I mean, Jason, you'll remember that there was like, such a dividing line between making films and making television. You know, television back then was like, you know, anybody can do it, you know.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Movies is like this. This gold ring. Like, not everybody gets to make movies, you know.

[B]

Right. So you started to experiment with little home movie. And it's not an uncommon story. Right.

[D]

And no, it's the same exact story as everybody else. But I had the. I had the. The. The camaraderie and that. Which is so crazy now. I mean, I look around my. My life right now and I see my relationship to all the people in dark rooms that I work with, engineers and things like this through the entire process of making a movie, and you're like, this is exactly what my d. Go to a dark room each day and, you know, try and make something happen. And the. And the friendships that. That he had with those guys, I. I look back and I think I was really inspired by. I always just thought that's what a friendship was. You know, these. Kind of. He was very close with all these technicians and guys that. That he worked with. And so those are the people that were around our house.

[B]

Yeah, I. My. One of my first experiences was, was people that were very, very close with the crew, or at least a. A full understanding of the importance of the crew as opposed to this sort of terrible, traditional kind of look at, like. Oh, you know, the. That's. You know, some people look at crew as sort of soldiers and that, you know, the. The folks that are in front of the camera are the ones that are. That are super important when it. When the. When the opposite is actually the Truth. And so was that. Did that start then understanding that, oh, my God, this is. This is really difficult, and there's actually nobody on the set there that doesn't need to be there?

[D]

Well, the only people that don't need to be there are, like, studio executives and producers. And you know what I learned probably from my dad, it was like whoever's, you know, kick all people out of the room that are not completely. Completely essential to the product. You know, you learn pretty quickly who isn't. You know, they scatter.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So grabbing those early video cameras, movie cameras, stuff like that, that's sort of pretty common story where you kind of point a camera at stuff and you kind of take little. Little kid films and little army men, and that's not uncommon. But what about the writing part? Do you remember your first experience looking at a blank piece of paper and trying to figure out how to start from zero? Do you remember that being humbling or surprisingly easy?

[D]

That's a really good question, because I think you're right, that the story of, you know, the filmmaker with the 8 millimeter camera and then onto the video cameras, like there's a million of them. And that's generally how everybody starts. But the writing part always excited me because I liked it. I think I got lucky that I liked it. I liked putting paper into a typewriter and typing out ideas, and I liked the. I liked seeing it on the page. I liked looking at that idea. I don't know. From an early age, I've always liked writing and formulating things on paper. And when you learn on a typewriter, you learn how to make it right the first time, because the last thing that you want to do is go through that. And I had the one.

[A]

Still use a typewriter?

[D]

No, I don't. From time to time I will just for fun, to mix it up. But no, I don't use a typewriter anymore. But I remember the one script that I had. I. I think I have to credit my mother for this is. I had the script for Holy Grail. Oh, wow.

[B]

Monty Python.

[A]

Monty Python.

[D]

Monty Python. It was published as a little book and. And I loved that movie so much. So this is like probably 8. 78 or 79, whenever.

[C]

By the way, they're both like Monty Python. No, the actual Holy Grail. You.

[B]

We're helping Tracy.

[D]

Okay. So I. I had the. What. What was the script for that? And I. And then I just copied that. I just copied how the formatting was of that. It was a great way to learn. So I. I Can't think. Writing is either something that you like doing or you don't like doing. I mean, you know, it's. It's.

[A]

Yeah, I. I got a dumb, dummy question. When you.

[C]

No shit.

[A]

When you drive, when you're just driving around, like, the. Driving around during the day with your kids or whatever, do you constantly think in images or see images and think of filmmaking? Like, do you. Is it hard to turn it off?

[D]

Yeah, it's. No, it's easy to turn off.

[A]

Oh, okay. Never mind.

[D]

It's not. No, I don't, like, walk around like Rain man or something like that because.

[A]

I always think of, like, whenever I'm driving around, I always see, like, images. There's like, God, that'd be such. And I see, like, a frame around it or something. I'm not a filmmaker, but especially when I.

[B]

You know, like, when you're listening to music. Do you find that happening, Sean? All the time. You basically start cutting videos, right?

[A]

Yeah. Don't you do that?

[B]

Change. Your eyes go. Right. You know, and I dork out like that.

[C]

How many. How many Wham. Inspired movies have you made, Sean, in your head?

[A]

Oh, there's got to be like, 12. I mean, you know, they wake Me up before youe Go Go was my holy grail, you know, they're like. I was like, I can't believe there's.

[B]

This lends itself to a real cinematic.

[C]

Paul, what was.

[D]

This could be the best interview. Just. I like.

[B]

You don't get to talk.

[D]

I know, and this is why I like it. I just want to hear you guys. I have to tell you my favorite.

[A]

I heard.

[B]

Listen to.

[D]

I don't listen to.

[B]

You haven't listened to this.

[D]

I have. Of course I have. But the one joke that stuck with me forever and ever and ever was Will saying something about your father, Jason. And by father, he meant the security guard at the 20th Century Fox.

[B]

That sounds about right.

[C]

Don't make Jason cry. Don't make Jason cry.

[D]

It stuck with me where I think about. That's what I think about Sean. When I'm driving down the road, every once in a while, I'll think about Jason. Something pops into your head. You think, God, that was really, really, really, really funny.

[B]

It's surprising when you're in the car and you're driving around, you're not thinking about Sean's dad peeling away from the house.

[C]

Cause he's real handy in a car.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Still hasn't come back.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And we will be right back.

[A]

Let's be real. We all deserve snacks that hit that sweet spot. Delicious and better for you. That's where Skinny Pop Popcorn comes in. Skinny Pop uses quality ingredients to bring you the light and tasty flavors you love. SkinnyPop keeps it simple and tasty, using quality ingredients to create light, craveable popcorn. The original ready to eat flavor is made with just three ingredients popcorn kernels, sunflower oil and salt. Nothing more, nothing weird. And if you're feeling adventurous, they've got plenty of flavors to choose from. White, Cheddar, Sweet and salty Kettle and more. It's always non GMO gluten free with plenty of vegan friendly options too. I started taking a little bit of a more break from the sweet side of my life with like candy bars. I mean I still eat them and stuff but for movie night I still go to Skinny Pop just because of the natural ingredients. I love it. It tastes so good and it goes great with a movie. And my favorite is the original Skinny Pop. I love it. I eat the whole bag in one sitting almost. Skinny Pop popcorn deliciously popped, perfectly salted Shop Skinny Pop now Did you know Skincare can start in the laundry room? The first step of a sensitive skincare routine is choosing the right laundry detergent. All Free Clear is the number one detergent brand recommended by dermatologists for sensitive skin. All free clear is 100% free of dyes and fragrance allergens. It provides an effective clean that's gentle on skin while removing impurities like dirt and body oil that can irritate your skin. Made to fight stains and be gentle on your skin. So for me, I didn't even know I had that sensitive of skin. With my bed sheets. I would get up in the middle of the night and be like kind of scratchy, kind of itchy. No idea why I used All Free Clearance is awesome for an effective skin friendly clean wash with all free clear. AutoTrader is powered by Auto Intelligence. Put simply their tools and data sync to your exact budget and preferences to tailor car buying to. You want a pink midsize SUV with 22 inch rims and a V8? How about a two door convertible with a premium sound system and heated cup holders? Nothing's too specific. AutoTrader powered by auto Intelligence helps you find your dream car at the right price in no time because they do all the hard work for you. Imagine knowing what you can afford before you even start shopping. Having access to the largest automotive inventory anywhere with enough search filters to make it feel personal. Only seeing listings based on your budget and your must haves. Finding the car that gives you the feels and the deals while feeling like you won the negotiation without negotiating. And you can close this deal however you want. Autotrader, powered by auto intelligence, is the totally you way to buy a car. Visit autotrader.com to find your perfect ride.

[B]

And now back to the show, Paul.

[C]

And forgive us for just being such fools. I'm sure we ruined many of your days having to listen to it.

[A]

But wait, I want to know about. I want to know about.

[C]

Okay, yeah, just cut them off.

[B]

Sean, if you get an idea, start talking. Go ahead.

[C]

Will, wait.

[A]

I just want to get this out of the way.

[C]

Oh, Oscar Levant over there.

[A]

I think I've seen. I'm pretty sure I've seen every single one of your films.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And always been amazed by each one. But I just want to get this out of the way before I forget. Boogie Nights. Is it true that Leo was up for the part but Mark got it, or Leo turned it down because he did Titanic? Or is there any truth to any of that?

[B]

Shawn loves the dirt.

[D]

Paul, that is very true, is that I asked Leo to be in Boogie Nights and he spent many, many months agonizing and debating it. And ultimately, what I didn't realize or kind of came to realize about halfway into that this sort of long decision making process is that he was. He had a choice to make, which was to either do Titanic or to do Boogie Nights. And he chose to do Titanic, which, of course, in the long run catapulted him to this massive worldwide fame. On the other hand, I think possibly, but I think it was. We laugh about it now, but he, you know, regrets missing the experience and doing it, but. Yeah, that's. That's true.

[A]

Yeah, that's fine. I just always wondered that it'd be.

[C]

Well, now, you know, so I would.

[A]

Have never, never known.

[B]

Will, was your question as good as that?

[C]

Not as good as that, actually. That was very interesting and well done, Sean.

[B]

Congrats.

[C]

I like the idea.

[B]

Back to Google. Back to Google.

[C]

Sean, I thought you were going to say. I thought you were going to say. And I, to this day, I still think Leo made it a huge error in judgment. You never let it go. But. But what was. No, my question actually was just simply what was that first thing that you. That you wrote and you said, I should film this.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And that you. First thing you actually put to film that you. From your own words?

[D]

Well, I did like short treatments and shot lists and things like that. But really funny enough that when I was 16, just about to turn 17, I wrote a short film that was called the Dirk Diggler Story. That was what Boogie Nights became. And it was like a 20. It was like a 23 or 24 page script. But I did it in the format that was so popular at the time. And all I had was this sort of bad video camera. So I realized it wasn't going to look good, it wasn't going to look like a movie. So I wrote this thing that was about 23 pages long. And it was interviews with people looking back at the life of this guy, Dirk Diggler. Oh, A Current Affair was a very popular show at that time. I don't know if you remember that, but they would always have these insanely over dramatic, you know. And it was so preposterous that it was so trying to find a way into the story that I thought was interesting, which is the pornography that had surrounded me my whole life. Living where I lived, like it was so obvious what was around me. And then writing it in this format was like a doable thing. Like, okay, I can get somebody and do an interview with them, you know, I mean, it's a format that's still at work, you know, but at the time it was really like the most convenient and plausible way into a story. With the equipment that you had at hand.

[B]

Wow. Have you transferred that from. Was it VHS?

[D]

No, it was 8 millimeter. 8 millimeter video. So high 8. I think they would.

[B]

Have you transferred it to something that'll last and. Are we ever gonna.

[D]

Hopefully not. Hopefully it's somewhere. No, it's, it's, it's. It's transferred within an inch of its life. It's available, I think it. Maybe it's on YouTube. I'd have to look.

[B]

Oh, really?

[D]

Yeah, I'm not sure.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

It's not terrible. There's still some jokes that are the same and things then. And some pieces that, you know, remained in Boogie Nights. You know what, what was great about that was that what I didn't even realize at the time in terms of the writing, in terms of really learning how to write was that I'd created this kind of these fictional characters in this fake documentary, right? And then I realized what I had to do was adapt that, adapt this, these fake lives into a movie. And I spent the next, well, probably about 10 years doing that. So I like wrote a 90 page version of this documentary. And then I realized, well, I don't want to do that. That's a kind of. That's not the right format for this. I want to write this as a fictional film. So I did that, you know, for 10 years. I guess it was the way that I learned how to write, really, was practicing telling this story in multiple different ways.

[C]

It's funny that that seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of filmmakers and writers I know. You know, Kenny Lonergan used to do back in Naked Angels, this theater company in New York in the 90s. He did various scene nights on Monday nights where he would do the scene about a brother and a sister, and then just this guy who was kind of lost in his 20s in New York, et cetera, et cetera. And it took on a bunch of different incarnations, a bunch of different scenes, which eventually then became this is Our Youth, the play that my then girlfriend, Missy Yeager was in with Mark Ruffalo and Josh Hamilton, that then became kind of really, I think, the inspiration for you Can Count on Me, you know? But it was like this similar story, similar theme that he told in various ways over at least 15 years before he kind of landed on. On that. Yeah, I'm sure you can probably relate to that, for sure.

[D]

You know, maybe there's leftovers and you're just. I don't know. How deep is your. Well, I guess you just keep.

[B]

Well to that point. I mean, do you find that it was basically a peeling the onion further and further back on a specific theme that you thought this sort of story was a fun example of? And if so, what is that theme?

[D]

Yeah, but that's. Can you write a theme? I can never write a theme.

[B]

Well, I mean. But I mean, you tell me, you know, what you're doing. A theme of being, let's say, the irresponsible chase of fame.

[D]

No, I never have anything good like that. I always have, like, just like. No, like, I never, ever have. I have more, like, facts, like, well, what really happens here? And some steal from real life. Like, every story was essentially the same. You know, it was like if the exaggerated version was the guy who steps off the bus and, you know, kind of comes to Hollywood with big dreams and takes his pants off, and then the next thing you know, he's a big star. And it was any classic rise and fall story. So I'm always just sort of following any steps of reality. I mean, I don't know. I never. I get so scared of writing to a theme or having anything like that beforehand. I can remember at a certain point maybe needing help, like, what is the story? And luckily enough, coming across Singing in the Rain and being like, oh, right. It's just the same thing as, like, silent talkies, you know, it's this transitional time in whatever industry. They're going from shooting on film to shooting on video. Like, use things like this to tell your story and whatever themes will just emerge later.

[B]

Well, yes. So you write a story and you basically just write a script because it's. To oversimplify it, this event runs to this event and this event and this event. And now we have an ending, and it's a fun story, and now you shoot it. And all that worked out well. Now you're in the editing room and you start to shape this, pardon the phrase, experience for the audience. And it starts to sort of present itself as a film. And you start working with either temp music or the actual score. And maybe themes start to develop for you as a viewer, as you're viewing it. Trying to keep the optics of a viewer. Do you allow that to happen? And then does that inform the way you finish the film? And, oh, here's. Here's a little theme that's existing underneath this crunchy story that's kind of fun. Does that. Does that. Do you find that that happens?

[D]

I find that that's exactly what happens, with the exception that it does happen a little bit earlier. You know that once you. I mean, listen, I'm not blind, you know, as you're writing something, you maybe have. You're fighting off the idea that a theme is right in front of your face just because you want to try to tell something factually. And what ends up emerging emerges, and you can't fight it. Hopefully you like it, you're enjoying what's happening. But you, I think, and you keep a half an eye on it, but really, you keep the other eye on what are the facts? What are the facts? What are the facts of the story? You know?

[A]

Why? Why is that?

[D]

Because, I don't know, I find films that overindulge in telling me the theme are annoying, you know, and boring. So. But yes, to your point that once you. And then you get into shooting and you're seeing dailies and you're seeing stuff emerge that is really exciting or stuff that is unexpected, and you either embrace it or you say, perhaps this is not going in the right direction. But very. More often than not, you can't stop what's coming, nor should you. That you have to kind of be. Surrender. You're guiding a ship, but you're also surrendering a bit to the path that's happening. And, you know, performances kind of get bigger or smaller, whatever ends up happening. And then it just keeps on going and you keep refining that through the editing and. And all that.

[C]

One of the. If we can get into staying on the idea of themes. One of the themes of it seems to me of your films is that they're very specific visually and stylistically, each one different in its own way, but they do seem so specific in the writing. And so what is your relationship like, again, going deeper into the weeds on filmmaking. But what is your relationship like with your production designer and your DP leading up to when you actually shoot? Because it does seem like all of your films. I told you once, at risk of further embarrassment to myself and to you, you know, for instance, there Will Be Blood, I feel like it should be just hung in MoMA and left there for people to watch. It's an incredible piece of art in every way, from the writing to the direction to the art direction, production. What is that like for you, leading up to actually rolling film and working with those departments?

[D]

Well, it's the joy of collaboration, particularly when you're doing it with somebody that you love and work with. Like, for instance, on that film. I. I had never worked with Jack Fisk, who's a. One of the great production designers who started his career with Terence Malik and David Lynch. They kind of go back to their beginnings together. Anyway, I contacted Jack Fisk and. And had written the script and I needed to kind of create. I needed a lot of help with making oil derricks and the recreation of an early California town. And there was only one person that helped do that. So it started a great collaboration. Jack Fisk was, you know, we were kind of trying to learn how to get oil out of the ground and really trying to be really, you know, do our research. And he said the greatest thing. He's like, you know, I found that if we can just get a children's book about this, it's really better than trying to really understand how to do it with all these kind of books that are this thick. And it was one of these great lessons. And like, yeah, get the children's book first. And don't be, you know, because it'll have drawings, it'll be simple.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And it was like, wow, Jack Fisk gets the children's book first. All right, that's really good advice. But we had the incredible joy of going to scout locations together and find a place to make this film. And I learned from him one incredible trick that I still try to make true is that that the more you can have a location where everything's close Together, the more freedom you have. Here's what I mean by that, is that if you shoot a scene over here and you see it a few days later, you think, that's the worst scene that we've ever done. We should really try to do it again. Is that you can go do it again. You kind of create your own. You create your own backlot, you create your own universe and try as much as you possibly can to not move too much, but to have a variety of different looks and things happening so that. I don't know, I'm lost in. Whatever your question was, was kind of like the collaboration that's.

[B]

Well, the simplicity sometimes yields some of the most complex and sophisticated results, perhaps. Yeah. And sure, that's my role. Yeah. Was there a similar process with Johnny Greenwood, who did the. For Tracy was the composer on that film. I believe it was the first time he'd composed music for a film and first time you guys worked together.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. There was a piece of music that he had written for orchestra because he was already well versed in how to write for string instruments. It wasn't like. Don't let him fool you. I mean, I know he's.

[B]

But obviously his score was incredible, as was everything else in the film.

[D]

It was really incredible. And it's an opportunity. You know, look, I think. I don't. Now, there was no kind of crazy, weird instrumentation or something like that. He. He does funny things with instruments where he'll detune certain pieces of the orchestra and keep others in tune. And so he has the ability to make it sound very familiar. You're hearing string instruments, but that sounds just out of body enough that you can't quite place it. So he's brilliant like that. But that sort of stuff, it's, you know, it's nice, it's trickery. But he, He. He writes beautiful music that complements the film and they, they. They go hand in hand. And it was the beginning of a beautiful.

[A]

You consciously keep that in mind when you're writing, like, spaces? Or do you listen to stuff when you write or.

[D]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I had all kinds of. The stuff that I was listening to was stuff that he likes anyway. Was it Penderi or Schubert or, you know, even that, the piece that he had written for the BBC orchestra, so that was already kind of informing where my head was at. And it was nice to go to him and say, like, you know, the movie lends itself, too, to just like, wide open spaces and like, a huge opportunity to fill long gaps of silence. With music that can either be gigantically loud or even just simmering underneath. So it was quite a good entrance into the game for him.

[A]

I love that.

[C]

What's the music that you put on when you go, like, pick up the kids from school or whatever? Like, what are your bands?

[B]

Yeah, what's the music you have to take off the stereo when your kids get in and put on?

[D]

Well, they're already sick of that Smile record. They've been hearing that enough. They're like, enough with that. Enough, enough, enough. So. Well, come on.

[B]

What's Pearl listening to right now?

[D]

Pearl is listening to. Well, you know, what she's listening to is anything. And I don't know any of the many of the artists, but we just. We're kind of obsessed right now with this film. The worst person in the world.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know if you guys have seen it.

[B]

Trailer. It looks great.

[D]

Oh, it's fucking magical, this film. And it's got this great soundtrack. So we've just kind of been listening to all this variety of songs on that soundtrack, which is everything from, like, Harry Nilsson and Todd Rundgren to a lot of new stuff that I've never heard in my life.

[A]

You know, I want to ask you something about, you know, streaming versus wide release and. And where we're at in the business of that. And, you know, I was having this conversation with a friend, and we were talking about how, for example, west side Story or Licorice Pizza or whatever it is that's out there. That's fantastic right now, how that would have fared with a really long wide release run. Would anybody see these things? Are we really, truly at the point where we just want to see stuff in our homes? But to the filmmaker, I imagine you want it to be seen on that big screen for. Or because of the genre of filmmaking. Right. Because of the thing that lends itself to that. So what are your thoughts about that?

[D]

Well, yeah, I mean, I. I don't know.

[A]

I kind of like.

[B]

Kind of. I don't know.

[D]

I mean, I like everything, you know, I mean, I really do. I sound like Daniel Plainview is like, I like all kinds of religions. They're all fucking, you know, to me.

[C]

And then I'm.

[B]

Sticks in your back. Exactly.

[A]

But when you make a movie, isn't the idea in your head, I can't wait to see this on the big screen? Yeah, right, of course.

[D]

Absolutely.

[A]

And so with the business of this business, it just seems to be less and less that if it's not one of these big Superhero movies. It's gonna.

[D]

Well, listen, that's exactly right. I mean, to that point is there's probably, you know, 30 theaters in this country where it would look great and sound great and the rest are filth. I'm sorry, but it's like, you know, and that's the sad truth of it is that. That I can understand why everybody says, like, oh, piss off, I'm staying at home. You know, you want me to pay for a babysitter and pay for parking and come in and look at this and look at it on a screen that. That you guys haven't even. You know, I don't know. I'm. It's hard to defend at a certain point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm sure that if, God forbid, the. The business became a place where it's only event movies in. In. In theaters, and the only place that you can expect your film to be seen is at home. Based on it's not a big effects thing or whatever, you'd much rather people be able to make films and have them see it at home than make no films at all.

[D]

Right. But I don't know. I think that's kind of bullshit too, because the reason why is when all these theaters were opening up again, you know, you have these huge, gigantic 25 plexes and stuff like that, and everybody was crying, oh, they're empty. It was like, what did you fucking think was gonna happen? But if you go to any of the great theaters, let's say in Los Angeles or New York that are playing specialty programming, they're packed with people. They're all turning out. They're film lovers. They're people that, you know, are gonna come out and turn out for this thing. And because there's one theater with 400 seats that they can fill, and they can do two shows a day or three shows a day, and people will still turn up. It was like everyone's scratching their head. No one's coming back for the movies. It's like, well, they're not coming back to your. These weird, horrible pyramids that we've built.

[C]

But, Paul, I think that what maybe you're saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but is there is a little bit of. Well, of course they're not going to come back because look, what you're putting in the theaters is part of the problem. A. And I can say that. And I know it's hard for you to say because of your position in the films that you make, and you probably don't want to be that guy who says that. But you make the kind of films that you want that are really incredible films. And at the same time, you don't seek out recognition for yourself in a way that a lot of other filmmakers seem to do. It's never about your own sort of, you know, increasing your personal fame. So my question to you is, how much of that are you aware of show business, in fact? Or are you kind of in your bubble of making the films that you make?

[D]

No, I do, and then I don't. I slip in and out of it. Because I love part of loving movies as much as I do the history of movies. And my, you know, my obsession with this work, which has been with me forever and is what I've made of my life, it does involve being fascinated with the way that it moves. You know, like we were talking about before with Singing in the Rain. You know, that's a fantastic story. The way that what happened to the movie business was when it changed from talkies to. So I constantly try to keep an eye on that or try to understand it or have enough friends in this business from over the years that I can call up and ask, you know, what does this mean? What does this mean when this film is doing well or what is going to happen here? What tides do you see turning? And it's nice to gauge that stuff. I love this business and I love movies so much that I have a real interest in and seeing it survive. But more often than not, the volume of my day becomes more about film preservation and film history and trying to keep that stuff alive and then just sort of looking to see what's happening and reacting, I suppose. But I don't know.

[B]

How often do you collaborate with Quentin Tarantino on those efforts? Cause I know he's got a real passion for the history of cinema and turning people on to stuff that perhaps they haven't seen.

[D]

He's great about all that, but he's amazing about it. One of the best. But he also really runs in his own lane, you know, because he. He. The person who I collaborate the most with that is Scorsese, because he has the Film foundation. He, since the 70s, since the late 70s, early 80s, went around to every. Every studio in town and said, look, you know, this is when it was really tragic, when. When the. The products they had made since, you know, since their existence were really fading away and dying and weren't being taken care of. You have to. This is so just on the cusp of VHS coming. So he was really out there at the very beginning with the Film foundation saying this is the biggest cultural historical thing that this country has to offer and we have to preserve it and we have to take care of it. We have to invest money and time and manpower into figuring this out. So being a part of his Film foundation has been one of the great honors of my life. It's great.

[B]

We'll be right back.

[D]

Back.

[C]

A podcast is kind of like a small business, one with lots of talking and someone always forgetting to hit record. And we all know small business thrives when it takes care of the hard working people who keep it running. And that's where Just Works comes in. Just Works is an easy to use, intuitive HR platform that helps small businesses support their people. Whether you're hiring, automating, payroll, expanding globally, or handling confusing compliance stuff, Justworks has you covered. They even offer 247 support for employees still working at 4am Go home already. With Just Works, you can hire and manage international talent without juggling extra platforms, paperwork or licensing fees. And your team gets access to premium benefits like health insurance 401 and and commuter perks. Plus, with transparent pricing, you'll always know exactly what you're getting and what you're paying for. Go to justworks.com to learn more. They do your human resources right so you can do right by your people. Just Works for your people.

[B]

This podcast is brought to you by Kleenex Lotion Tissues. You can't predict sick days, but with Kleenex lotion tissues you can be better prepared for it them while helping keep your skin healthy. Kleenex Lotion tissues moisturize to help prevent the added discomfort of red, irritated skin while you're battling those unwanted cold and flu symptoms. It's extra care when you need it most. With lotion built into every tissue, your skin stays moisturized and healthy. Keep relief within reach. Grab Kleenex lotion tissues to help avoid the added discomfort of irritated skin directly during cold and flu season. Why not have one less thing to worry about when you're not feeling your best? We all know life is unpredictable, but you can be prepared for that time of year when germs are going around by making sure you've always got Kleenex lotion tissues at the ready for whatever happens next. Grab Kleenex.

[C]

Paragould is the destination for luxury home. They brought the world's best design brands together including Visual Comfort and Custom Century, Schumacher and four Hands. From traditional to modern, indoors to out, their curated selection of furnishings and home improvements spans every style. Craving inspiration. Their go to edits for home include expert styling tips and exclusive designer shops where trusted tastemakers pick products they love. They promise a seamless experience with fast free full service delivery on most items. Ready for extraordinary. Shop [e-mail].

[B]

All right, back to the show.

[C]

Paul, I know you're a hu. You're a big comedy fan and you've obviously collaborated with Sandler and you.

[B]

And married the funniest woman in Hollywood.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Or in the world.

[B]

Maybe we can just say the world or.

[A]

Tracy.

[B]

Maya Rudolph. Tracy.

[C]

Maya was one of our first guests.

[D]

I said that to her. I said, you were one of the first guests. She's like, no, no, I was. I said, I think you were. She was like one of the first two or three.

[C]

Yeah. Maya's one of those people, as you know.

[D]

Did you give her a piece of the pie? Because she should have.

[B]

We sent her a cake, though.

[C]

Yeah, she should have. But she is one of those people that anytime you're doing anything funny, you go, so then it would be great. And then, God, if we could get Maya just to stamp it. Yeah. You know, because she's so just.

[B]

How did you guys meet? Where that. Where. Where'd that. As Will was saying, you've been a huge fan of comedy for a long time. Was it just. Did you just fan out on her and say, will you have dinner with.

[A]

With me?

[D]

It was just like that. Yeah.

[B]

It's simple, right? Or did you swipe left or right. How does. I don't know how it works, Paul.

[C]

See, Paul, it's not easy, is it? It's not easy to bite your tongue with Baitman.

[B]

He wants to hurt me. I know.

[A]

I.

[C]

It.

[D]

You know, it's funny. I'm not sure what it is that it's. I guess it's like anything like, you know, I don't know, there's like, you know, actors that wanted to be rock stars or, you know, musicians wanted to be actors. Like people that. Making serious films. Really just like the, the one thing they really loved was comedies, you know, Like, I, I made these films. I. I thought that they were funny, but people were saying, like, it's not. You're.

[B]

You make really funny.

[C]

Come on.

[D]

Well, I think, I think really, you.

[B]

Never ask for a laugh and that's what makes it so goddamn funny. There's no winking. It's great. Sorry.

[D]

Thank you. Because I. Yeah, because everything. Everything that I watched or in my daily kind of existence was just like, I just devoured that stuff. And I met Maya when she'd Started snl. Yeah.

[B]

What was that meaning? How'd you guys meet?

[D]

Well, you know, the funny thing is that I.

[A]

Does she make you laugh at home too, Paul? Cause she sure makes us laugh. She just must be a cut up at home.

[C]

Somebody once said to me, that reminds me, I think I told this once, somebody said to me years ago when, when Amy and I were married, they said, what's it like being married to the funny, funniest person in America? And I said, you'd have to ask my wife, but I love that.

[D]

Do you find that funny people are generally pretty serious when they're at home?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Uh huh. Nothing funny about it.

[A]

But I do want to know that. How did you meet Paul? How did you admire me?

[C]

I really do.

[D]

We, we, we at snl. Right, at snl. I, that was at the time with Will Ferrell and Molly Shannon. And I had met Molly Shannon and she said, you know, you could come and you can see how we do this. And at the time I was writing Punch Drunk Love and I was obsessed with, with that time that Sandler had been there. So I accepted that offer to come and look and watch, you know, behind the scenes. And then Molly said, well, you know, you direct a, you can direct a short. So I directed a short short with her in it and just got to kind of witness the inner workings of this whole thing. And at that time I was also getting to know Sandler and asking him about his time there. I was getting ready to make Punch Drunk Love with him. And as I was getting ready to leave after my week there, my head was spinning. I was like, well, that was great, but I don't want to do that again because it was so much, it was a different pace of work and I was thrilled to have done it, but that was enough of a taste. They said there was a piece of paper that somebody had put in my hands or something like that. And I looked at it and the information was on it that there was a new cast member starting next week and her name was Maya Rudolph. And I can remember seeing her name on that piece of paper. I don't know if you've had any feeling like this, but you see something for the first time and you realize my life has just changed. I don't know how, I don't know why, I don't know what just happened. And so, wow. But you know, quickly you kind of move on. You just, whatever you have something else to do, you have to eat it, you know. But looking back, I obviously that impulse, whatever that kind of that shining kind of feeling that can happen to any of us if we're open to it happened. And so I roamed around, and then I saw her on television, and I saw what she was doing, and I had stayed in touch with a few people from the show, and my God, this woman's amazing. And on my way back through, I stopped to watch and we met at the show, and then I had to go on to London and I. To work on Punch Drunk Love. And then I got to London, I said, well, something didn't feel right, and I just came back to New York.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

And I came back and then.

[C]

That's fucking beautiful, man.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So you come back to New York because you felt drawn back to her and called her and said, let's go out.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

No, I love that I wanted to make a joke in there so badly, but I love that story. I wanted to.

[B]

Melted my cold heart.

[C]

Sean had that feeling, that same feeling of seeing something written when somebody pushed a flyer for a new Vons that was opening around the corner.

[B]

Oh, I thought you were saying when he drove by a new chin chin and he had to double back and.

[C]

Yeah, he knew his life.

[A]

And I turned back and I haven't left since.

[C]

Jason. Jason felt the same way when he found out that Deadline Hollywood had an app. But. But. But that is. That's fucking incredible, man.

[A]

I love that Maya reminds me too, Paul, that you and I born the same day, same year, every year. She reminds me.

[D]

I think of it all the time. We're. We're. We're one and the same, Sean. June 26th. June 26th, 1976.

[A]

1970. 70.

[B]

You two guys are.

[D]

Yeah, but what city were you born in?

[A]

Chicago? Evergreen Park. I was born in the hospital. Evergreen park, but I just say Chicago.

[D]

Yeah, you. I was born here in Los Angeles at what is now the Scientology center, which was St. John's I guess it was. It was. No, it was Cedars of Lebanon. It was called On Franklin or.

[C]

No, no, the Far East.

[D]

Right there where Sunset and Hollywood meet. That. That big.

[B]

They blew almost near prospect.

[D]

Yeah, right. Right around.

[A]

It went from Catholic to Scientology. That building.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Hey, you know you mentioned Sandler. What was it you saw in Adam earlier than anybody else did?

[D]

Well, I always liked it when Adam would get angry, you know, the violent part of him would come out, and it was like. And I guess I saw the story that. I remember there was a sketch called the Denise show where he's talking to his ex girlfriend, Denise who's played by Shannon Doherty. And it's a funny enough premise and he keeps trying to woo her back, but there's a moment when he starts screaming. I think his dad calls up and is on the speakerphone and he starts screaming at his father. And there was a moment where Sandler, Sandler screen. He. He's so invested in it that the whites of his eyes turn black and it like. And I could just. There was a level of anger and commitment to this performance. I said that is something else that he's not just screaming and being like. He, he, he. He potentially is. Is completely psychotic underneath all this. And I loved it.

[A]

That's great.

[C]

I love that.

[D]

Yeah. And it was, you know, he has a great physical way about him. And I, yeah, loved working with Adam.

[C]

Do you ever have any desire to. Especially now that there makes so many of these sort of limited series. Does that ever appeal to you? The idea of being able to tell.

[B]

400 page script over a longer.

[D]

Yeah, okay. I don't know. I want to be careful what I say here because I only in the past couple weeks have become a little bit preoccupied with what seems to be a real unfortunate turn of events, which is 80 minute stories being turned into like nine part, you know, things that. It just seems to be the kind of the call of the day, like this is what we're doing when in fact, you know, it's like, piss off. I don't. This is stretched out way too much, you know, I mean I was watching the Purple Rose of Cairo last night, which is about 92 minutes and absolutely perfect and it packs so much story.

[A]

You know, it's so interesting because people say that all the time. They're like, did you see so and so. Did you see the new series Blank or whatever? And they're like, yeah, try to get it. No, you gotta wait nine episodes in.

[D]

Yeah, just wait. Really good. Wait for the third one. I know.

[C]

Fuck.

[D]

Piss off.

[A]

Can it be good after the first one?

[D]

Yeah. No. So I. But I only have been really feeling this lately when I'm. And I, I don't have a leg to stand on because I haven't really. I don't. I don't want to sound like an asshole here, but I haven't seen much of it because my viewing always goes like, if I have opportunity to watch tv, I fucking end up. I'm watching old movies. You know, it's just sort of like my gravity pulls me that way with the time that I have in the day. But you know, sometimes you have A story that's very large, like a large scale story, any kind of epic stories. And those are great. And there used to be this opportunity they would have like the Winds of War or, you know, Roots or these huge miniseries. It was like, okay, that's fantastic. That used to be a kind of work of art in and of itself. But now I feel this kind of slow motion turn towards stories stretched out too much. I think. I guess underneath it, I have a fear that the painfully difficult challenge of telling a story in preferably under two hours, hopefully 90 minutes, will start to get lost. Because I think it's a very, very valuable storytelling. That structure is great. I don't want to see that get lost.

[C]

There is the risk that we rewiring how we appreciate those things. And I watched the story of Neville Chamberlain signing the Munich agreement with Hitler over the Sudetenland, et cetera, et cetera, trying to avoid war.

[B]

This was just to unwind the other night.

[D]

Just to unwind.

[C]

What was interesting was, was that he was telling this really simple story that was just a snapshot of that time and of that very specific story. And these two guys who tried to alter the course of. And I realized halfway through, I thought, to your point, I was like, I'm surprised that they didn't try to stretch it out and that they'd actually made this film. Became quite surprising to me while I was watching because we've become so accustomed to. And our brains are wired to, you know, great, there's going to be 12 episodes of this now, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Let's talk about the opposite trailers. I think you love trailers based on how incredible your trailers are. And I think you cut them yourself.

[D]

I love trailers. Trailers are their own little art form. And I have cut them in the past or collaborated with people. The last one that we did was. Was not cut by. By me. It was cut by a guy named Joel who's got a company called Aspect Ratio. And it was one of those great moments where I just handed the film over and said, can you do something? And it was so perfect right away that we didn't say anything. We just said, that's it. You know, it was great. And that was a really fun feeling. But yeah, I always. That was one of the joys to me of going to sit in a movie theater. I guess there's people. There's probably two types of people in the world. People that like to sit down and watch trailers and then people that like to watch the credits of movies. You know, people like to watch the credits and people that don't like to watch the credits. I like to watch the credits. I do. Yeah.

[B]

You once described having four kids in the best way I thought possible. And I think I mentioned this when we had Maya on, which was. And I'll mash this up, you correct me that having four kids is like having four cozy fires burning in the house. Just hearing them run around and it sounds like you're as much of a homebody as I am. How do you manage to work as hard as you do and still be an incredible father to not one, not two, not three, but four kids?

[D]

Well, I hope so. I mean, time will tell.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

This is very dangerous. I remember there's these great episodes with Lucille Ball doing these radio interviews from the mid-60s. I don't know if you've heard those. They were on SiriusXM for a little while, and they're the. And you hear all these people talking about their strengths as parents, and then you sort of realize, you know, that time has really proven quite differently, that, you know, there are these people talking about, you know, we really spend time on the weekends and everything else. And you're like, uh, huh, huh.

[B]

Stay tuned for the book.

[D]

Exactly. I don't know. You know, one of the benefits of writing, I suppose, is, you know, the ability to work from home, the ability to be present. I wasn't at home.

[B]

And shooting movies about the Valley, well.

[D]

That helps, too, to not go too far away. But even still, I think that. I don't know. When I went to London to make Phantom Thread, they did come for some of the time, but then they understood that for two months you're not gonna see me. But that's okay. Out of 12 months, in a year, as long as I'm with you the other chunk of time, you won't miss me that much.

[C]

Sorry. Jason, when he says be present, it means that you are where you. And that you're aware of the surroundings and of other people, et cetera. Okay, got it. Not just filled in.

[B]

Yeah, right, understood.

[C]

So I will say, I do love. This is such a. This is almost trite to say, but your affinity for. Your love of telling stories about Los Angeles in so many different ways, in so many different, different times. I find it f. I find it really fascinating. You. You tell stories about the experience of California unlike anybody else. And because I think that there's always been that rub, that California is not as interesting because it's newer, you know, that it's not the east coast. And it's always kind of looked down on in this way. But you tell these stories about actually how rich it is. It's just different.

[B]

And they've got the Dodge Dodgers, right, Paul?

[D]

Yes, they do.

[B]

You know, well.

[D]

Yes, they do.

[C]

Are you a Dodger guy?

[B]

Yeah. Come on. Okay, so Tarantino says any great filmmaker only has 10 films in them. You've made nine. Tell me that. Tell me that's not.

[D]

Oh, that's horseshit. I don't know. I don't even. I don't understand what he's on about.

[A]

About.

[B]

I need more than one more fame.

[D]

Yeah, you got it. I mean, I don't know.

[B]

Are you gonna. You're gonna do it like Clint Eastwood until. Until they cart you off? Yes.

[D]

I don't know.

[B]

You have to. Yes.

[D]

What else are you gonna do?

[B]

Exactly.

[D]

I didn't. I think. Yeah. What else are you gonna do?

[A]

You have to.

[B]

Because you're. Because I would imagine your perspective on stuff changes as you get older. In other words, you would have made Heart eight differently today than you did then. No better, no worse, just differently.

[A]

One bad film.

[B]

Yeah. I want to see what your. What your brain is like when you're 85, what's interesting to you, and how you compose shots and all that stuff. So don't stop, please.

[D]

Well, thank you.

[B]

Keep going.

[D]

Thank you for saying that.

[A]

Thanks for making really good.

[D]

Paul.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Paul, you're batting average.

[C]

You're one of the greats, man. I've. I. I always tell you that when I see you in person, because I can't. There's no other. I can't dress it up. I just can't dress it up. Man.

[B]

You have. You've really honored us with hanging out for an hour.

[D]

Thank you. Are you kidding? Thank you guys, really.

[B]

Please say hi to Maya.

[D]

Yeah, I sure will. I sure will.

[C]

Show our love.

[D]

I hope I see you guys in person for real soon. I can. Hope I can Come see your Oscar Levant play, Sean. I. I really genuinely am. Like, I love Oscar Levant.

[A]

I would love for you to.

[D]

Are you playing? Who's playing Oscar Levant?

[A]

That would be me.

[D]

You're playing Oscar Levant.

[A]

I'm playing Oscar Levant. Yeah.

[B]

You should hear him play Rhapsody in Blue too, on piano. You know, he's a classically trained pianist. It's insane.

[A]

Paulie, thank you for being here. We love you.

[C]

We love you.

[B]

Thank you so much, Paul.

[C]

Honestly. Thank you, man.

[D]

Are you kidding? Thanks, Gu. Guys.

[B]

Hopefully I'll see you out at the stadium. If baseball gets their act together.

[D]

Fingers crossed. They will. They will.

[B]

All right. Have a great Day, man.

[C]

See you.

[D]

All right, See you.

[B]

Bye. Bye, buddy.

[A]

Bye, Paul. That was a good get, Jay.

[C]

I love Jay. Oh, my God.

[B]

I mean, I've been working this for a couple of weeks with you guys saying I booked somebody that I'm excited about, that you guys won't be excited. I tried to, I tried to kind of fake it a little bit.

[A]

I can't believe, you know, it's true though, you know, when you name all his movies for Tracy again, I know you said at the top of this episode, but it's Boogie Nights, Magnolia Punch, Drunk Love, There Will Be Blood, There Will Be Blood, Licorice Pizza. Now, the master, he doesn't miss. He never misses.

[C]

Never misses.

[A]

And there's so many years in between him making those that you're like, oh, that's why it's so long. Because he invests everything that he is and these things. That's why. What? You said nine, right? He's only made nine.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And they've all been great. Yeah, he's what a, what a talent, that guy. I, I'm really, I'm just, I, I'm, I, I think I seem pretty casual all the way through that, but my goodness, is that guy a hero to me.

[A]

Yeah, he's amazing.

[C]

Yeah. Same, I, I, you know, I've known him just a little bit over the years from through Maya, and every time I think that every time, I'm always right on the edge. At risk of embarrassing my do end up saying stuff like, your movie was incredible and I can't get over it. And then I have to walk away. Yeah, most of the time I have to walk away.

[B]

I really, I, I would, I, I, I'd love for him to make some big, broad comedy. The ones that I know he's a fan of. I know the stuff that I was.

[C]

Gonna ask him that.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he gets that question a lot. So I'm glad, glad none of us did because I, I wanted to ask him that too. But like, you know, you think of about his affinity for that. I wanted to ask kind of comedy, you know, Monty Python, snl, I bet it would just be stunning.

[C]

But yeah, he used to be around SNL so much, obviously, and I must love it.

[A]

But, you know, I liked our conversation about, you know, the streaming versus the wide release stuff, because, you know, the wide release movies, when you go see them, you have to pay for, for them, but when they're at home, they kind of feel like they're free. So you don't have to buy it.

[C]

The race to the buy from you is so remarkable. Smart Smart Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbican, Michael Grant, Terry and Rob Armjarf. Smart Last Building a portfolio with Fidelity Basket Portfolios is kind of like making a sandwich. It's as simple as picking your stocks and ETFs, sort of like your meats and other topics and managing it as one big juicy investment. Now that's pretty good. Learn [e-mail] baskets Investing involves risks, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC.

[A]

Ah, DSW Earth Place of the humble. Brag here.

[D]

The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid.

[B]

If you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every.

[D]

Style, mood and occasion, all at really.

[B]

Great prices, they'll definitely give you something to brag about.

[C]

So go ahead, stock up on fresh.

[B]

Sneakers from your favorite brands, or try.

[D]

Those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off.

[B]

Find the shoes that get you at.

[D]

Prices that get your budget at DSW.

[C]

Stores [e-mail] Let us surprise you.