Aliens vs Robots

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Aliens vs Robots

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Host: Molly Bloom
Judge: Maddie
Debaters: Elise Hu (Team Robots), Sam Sanders (Team Aliens)
Date: September 11, 2019
Episode Theme: Which is cooler: Aliens or Robots?

Episode Overview

In this science fiction-themed episode of Smash Boom Best, debaters Elise Hu and Sam Sanders face off in a lively, fact-filled, and imaginative showdown: Aliens vs Robots. Guided by host Molly Bloom and judged by Maddie—a competitive debater and sci-fi writer—the two make the case for their chosen side across four creative rounds, ending with a sudden death tiebreaker. Listeners are encouraged to weigh in and score along at home.

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Episode Structure

• Round 1: Declaration of Greatness
• Round 2: Micro Round (Babysitter Challenge)
• Round 3: Sneak Attack (Crossword Clues)
• Round 4: Final Six (Six-Word Summation)
• Sudden Death Tiebreaker: Tongue Twister Showdown

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction and Framing the Debate

• Host Molly Bloom introduces the timeless fascination humans have for both robots and aliens—subjects of science fiction, pop culture, and real-world science.
• Judge Maddie shares personal connections: “I write novels, poetry, short stories… and I love to see how adding a new element to the world we live in just kind of changes how people interact. It’s super cool.” (01:27)
• Debaters’ perspectives:
  • Elise Hu (Robots): “Robots are the coolest because they can be anything we dream up. They are programmable, and so the possibilities for them are endless.” (02:56)
  • Sam Sanders (Aliens): “Because we’re aliens too.” (03:37)

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2. Declaration of Greatness – Arguments for Robots and Aliens

Team Robots: Elise Hu (05:07–10:57)

• Friendly Robots: Highlights lovable robots from pop culture: Optimus Prime, R2D2, BB8, Data, Eve, and Wall-E.
• Defining Robots: “One way to define a robot is a machine that can sense the world, come up with a thing to do, and then do that thing.” (05:57)
• Artificial Intelligence Power:
  • Cites AlphaGo beating Go champion Lee Sedol, emphasizing robots’ ability to exceed human capabilities through machine learning.
  • Memorable training montage: “AlphaGo studied 100,000 human games of Go… and played millions of games against itself.” (07:58)
• Real-World Benefits:
  • Assistance in medical breakthroughs (helping paralyzed people walk, bionic limbs), disaster response (finding earthquake survivors), and daily life (cleaning homes, robotics clubs for kids).
  • “Show me an alien that can do any of that. Show me an alien at all. We've yet to even prove they exist.” (09:32)
• Space Exploration: Emphasizes that NASA trusts robots, not humans or aliens, to explore Mars, stating: “It’s a cold, desolate place, not really suitable for humans, but just fine for Curiosity... Thanks to Curiosity, we've learned a ton of fascinating and illuminating facts about the red planet. With no aliens to report, I might add.” (10:20)
• Main Message: Robots exist, help humanity, and can expand our world—“They can help us learn, explore, care for others… which means they can help us with the stuff that makes us human.” (10:54)

Team Aliens: Sam Sanders (12:33–18:48)

• Historical Fascination:
  • Traces humanity’s obsession with aliens from Copernicus’s heliocentric model to modern movies and conspiracy theories.
  • Covers UFO sightings: “On a dark night in June 1947, a civilian pilot named Kenneth Arnold reported nine objects flying over Mount Rainier… They looked like saucers skipping on water.” (13:11)
• Pop Culture Explosion: Lists a cascade of alien-centric movies and shows: “The Day the Earth Stood Still… Star Trek, Star Wars… Alien, Aliens, Independence Day, Men in Black… Lilo & Stitch, Alien vs Predator…” (14:15)
• Limitless Imagination:
  • “Robots will always resemble humans in some way… They can only be as wild as we imagine them to be. But aliens, they’ll be weirder than our wildest dreams.” (14:58)
• Science and the Search:
  • The work of the SETI Institute seeking “technosignatures” of alien life.
  • “Any aliens we might discover via technosignature... There could be a ton of them in all shapes and sizes.” (17:19)
• The Vastness of the Universe: “Think about it, little baby—planet Earth is hanging out in a tiny solar system… the Milky Way… billions or possibly trillions of other galaxies in the universe. With all that space, there's gotta be some other form of intelligent life in the cosmos, right?” (17:24)
• Perspective Shift:
  • “To all the aliens out there in the universe—we’re the aliens.” (18:02)
• Main Message: Aliens open up infinite possibilities of what life can be, push imagination and science, and make us question who we are in the universe.

Notable Quote

“What I hear you doing, Elise, is shutting your heart off to hope and imagination and faith and belief in something higher and bigger than all of us.”
—Sam Sanders, (19:42)

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3. Micro Round: The Babysitter Test (25:08–28:46)

Sam (Aliens as Babysitters)

• Key Points: Aliens handle the unexpected, can truly love and care, and aren't limited by programming like robots.
  • “Robots can only do what you programmed them to do. You want a creature with a brain, an alien… Kids need more than anything else in this world? Love. You know who can’t love? Robots.” (25:37)

Elise (Robots as Babysitters)

• Key Points: Robots multitask, can be programmed to suit parents’ needs, are tireless, and even double as entertainment.
  • “A robot can do all sorts of things without getting tired… you can just program those into the robots themselves.” (27:10)

Banter and Highlights

• Elise: “I’m thinking about aliens just, like, oozing out... I’m seeing a fork accidentally go into an alien and, like, it’s green blood, just oozing out.” (28:32)
• Sam: “You cannot break an alien’s heart, mind, and soul.” (28:29)

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4. Sneak Attack: Crossword Clue Challenge (29:23–33:36)

• Debaters invent crossword clues for their opponent to solve, judged on creativity, facts, and humor by Maddie.
• Memorable Clues:
  • Elise: “Six letter word for Sam’s least favorite robot.”
  • Sam: “A five letter word for the human organ… associated with emotion, love, and spirit.”
• Banter:
  • “Another characteristic trait that aliens could have, but robots… Never mind.”—Sam (32:54)
  • “Can easily show.”—Elise

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5. Final Six: Six-Word Summations (33:56–34:16)

• Sam, for Aliens: “Aliens can live. Robots cannot.” (33:56)
• Elise, for Robots: “Robots are programmable. Plus they exist.” (34:10)

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6. Sudden Death Round: Tongue Twister Showdown (35:04–37:16)

• Sam’s Alien Tongue Twister: A playful song/poem name-dropping “Alien Aliana, Ariana Grande, Alda Alanis, Adele… aliens by the way to be aliens they’re you and me…” (36:22)
• Elise’s Robot Tongue Twister: “Roomba the robot rode a riveting roadster, racked and rife with riders wearing woven wreaths on their wretched knees.” (36:49)

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Judge’s Scoring and Final Decision

• Breakdown of Maddie’s points:
  • Declaration of Greatness: Aliens – “That more than we can imagine part just won me right over.” (35:31)
  • Micro Round: Aliens – “If I’m handing my kids over to someone, I’m gonna want them to be able to love.” (35:31)
  • Sneak Attack: Robots
  • Final Six: Robots
• Tiebreaker Victory: Aliens win with the creative, musical tongue twister.
  • “The creativity [of the tongue twister] won me over.” (37:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI’s learning power:
  “AlphaGo studied 100,000 human games of Go… and played millions of games against itself. That’s machine learning.” —Elise Hu (07:58)
• On loving babysitters:
  “You know what kids need more than anything else in this world? Love. You know who can’t love? Robots.” —Sam Sanders (25:50)
• On imagination:
  “Aliens can be more than we could ever imagine. That is absolutely fantastic to me as a writer.” —Judge Maddie (18:54)
• On proof and practicality:
  “Let's get practical here. What exists right now, what can be helpful to humanity and helpful to us in our individual lives? That would be robots to prove that they exist.” —Elise Hu (19:10)
• Playful banter:
  “A Roomba is not higher than us. I'm sorry.” —Sam Sanders (19:59)
• Tongue Twister Win:
  “The creativity won me over.” —Judge Maddie (37:29)
• Congratulatory closure:
  “Believing in the infinite possibility of our own brains is a beautiful thing. So thank you for that.” —Sam Sanders, to Elise, after the debate (37:57)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:09 — Introduction to Aliens vs Robots
• 05:07 — Declaration of Greatness: Robots (Elise Hu)
• 12:33 — Declaration of Greatness: Aliens (Sam Sanders)
• 25:08 — Micro Round: Babysitter Challenge
• 29:23 — Sneak Attack: Crossword Clues
• 33:56 — Final Six Words
• 35:04 — Sudden Death: Tongue Twister Showdown
• 37:23 — Winning Announcement and Reflections

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Conclusion

Winner: Team Aliens
Maddie’s final call was clinched by creativity and the limitless possibilities of aliens. However, both sides offered compelling arguments, memorable moments, and plenty of laughs. The debate highlighted the ways robots shape our world and expand human potential, while aliens push the boundaries of imagination, science, and wonder.

Listener Takeaway: Which side is coolest? The debate isn’t over—listeners are invited to judge for themselves and head to smashboom.org to cast their vote.

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Tone & Style

The episode mixes playful humor, clever banter, and thoughtful argumentation—making learning about debate, imagination, and science fun for all ages.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

From the brains behind brains on, it's.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

I'm Molly Blue, and this is Smash Boom Best, where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today we've got a futuristic face off between two things that fascinate and frighten us. Humans. They're the subject of sci fi and of real life science. It's aliens versus Robots. I think that aliens are cooler.

[Sam Sanders]

Robots, they do my work for me.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Aliens are better because they haven't been found yet.

[Elise Hu]

Robots, they can do so many things. They're definitely cooler than aliens. I really want to meet an alien.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Sometime in my lifetime, and I already know many robots.

[Elise Hu]

Robots would win because we don't really.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Know if aliens exist.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Who will win the day? Those helpful machines we call robots or the extraterrestrial neighbors we're still searching for. Here to help us settle this aliens versus Robots showdown once and for all is our esteemed judge, Madd. Hi, Maddie.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Hi.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

So what do you think of when you hear the word aliens?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is the sadly stereotypical green little Martian dude.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And what about the word robots?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Roombas, Honestly, And I know that you.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Are a science fiction writer. I am. Can you tell us a little bit about the science fiction that you write?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Absolutely. I write novels, poetry, short stories, kind of. You name it, I've tried to write it. And I honestly love to see how adding a new element to the world we live in just kind of changes how people interact. It's super cool. I think everyone should at least try and daydream about that every once in a while.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And have you written about aliens and robots?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I have. I've written about both.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Have they ever appeared in the same story?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Actually, I don't believe they have. So this is gonna be a first time that they're gonna kind of face off for me.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And do you feel like you're swayed one way or another right now?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I think I'm pretty unbiased when it comes to this one. I think I'm ready to give this debate my best shot.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Excellent. And you also debate competitively.

[Maddie (Judge)]

I do.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

So what advice do you have for our debaters today?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I'm gonna have to say, don't be afraid to recognize some faults in the thing that you're debating for. It's okay for things to have faults. Just make sure that you point out faults in the other person's too.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Excellent advice. Well, let's meet our debaters here to argue for the multi talented machines of team robot, it's NPR's Elise Hu. Hi, Elise. Hey, there. And, Elise, what do you do at npr?

[Elise Hu]

I'm covering the future. I host a video show called Future youe with Elise Hu, and it's all about how human bodies are getting upgraded.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Very, very cool. So now, in one sentence, why are robots the coolest?

[Elise Hu]

Robots are the coolest because they can be anything we dream up. They are programmable, and so the possibilities for them are endless.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Very good. Well, let's meet your fierce opponent. Here to rep extraterrestrial life for team alien, it's NPR's Sam Sanders. Hi, Sam.

[Sam Sanders]

Hey, there.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

What is your job at npr?

[Sam Sanders]

So I host a talk show for NPR called It's Been a Minute, and we have conversations with people in the culture you should know about and other journalists to kind of make sense of. Of not just the week of news, but how it all feels, too.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And, Sam, in a single sentence, why should aliens be crowned the Smash Boom Best?

[Sam Sanders]

Because we're aliens, too.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Mmm. I think I just started off.

[Sam Sanders]

I'll explain. I'll explain. I promise.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, we're almost ready to kick this debate off, but first, let's review the rules. Every debate battle is made up of four rounds, and the debater's goal is always the same. To convince the judge that their side is the coolest. The first round is the declaration of greatness, when both sides share all the coolest facts, figures, and lore about their side. Round two is the micro round, a creative challenge that the debaters prepared for in advance. Round three is the sneak attack, a surprise challenge to keep Sam and Elise on their toes. And then our last round is the final six, when both teams have six more words to try to win the last point. Our judge, Maddie, will award one point after each round, but she won't reveal the score until the very end. Listeners at home, we want you to judge this debate, too, so grab some scra or print off a scorecard from smashboom.org all right, Maddie, Sam, Elise, are you ready for this all out debate battle?

[Sam Sanders]

Oh, yeah. I'm ready to win.

[Elise Hu]

I'm ready as I'm gonna be.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Yes. I cannot wait to hear these arguments.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, well, brace yourselves for our first round declaration of greatness. Our debaters are ready to present the most interesting facts and the most persuasive arguments in favor of their side. We flipped a coin. Annalise, you're up first. Please deliver your declaration of greatness for robots.

[Elise Hu]

I want to start by introducing you to someone. He's short, spunky and. Wait, where did he go?

[Sam Sanders]

Is this who you were looking for, Elise?

[Elise Hu]

Aw, it's optimus Prime. And R2D2. Hey, you two. But these aren't the droids I'm looking for. It must be this one.

[Sam Sanders]

The model known as BB8.

[Elise Hu]

Hey, thanks, Data. That's the Android from Star the Next Generation. But actually, I was thinking of Eve. No, no, no, not Eve. I was looking for you, Wall E. But Eve's great too. In fact, you're all awesome. Why, thank you.

[Sam Sanders]

You're awesome, Elise.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Wall E.

[Elise Hu]

When someone talks about a robot filled future, a lot of people picture evil machines trying to take over the world. But I like to think of robots like the ones you just heard. Helpful ones that protect us, assist us, and can do the things we would never dream of doing on our own. One way to define a robot is a machine that can sense the world, come up with a thing to do, and then do that thing. So if I built a machine that released water when I pressed a button, I wouldn't consider that a robot for the purposes of this debate. But if I built a machine that could sense. When I'm getting thirsty, think to bring me a glass of water and then bring me one.

[Sam Sanders]

You seem parched. Here you go.

[Elise Hu]

Now that's a robot. There are plenty of robots simpler than that, of course, but robots are getting more sophisticated every day. What's so cool about them is that many of them use artificial intelligence rather than human intelligence. What I mean by that is they learn by repeating various versions of a task over and over and over again really quickly, based on the information they gather. Which means a robot's potential to learn and grow and acquire more knowledge is just exponentially greater than ours. Their smarts can build and build until they're able to master incredibly complicated things. Like, have you ever heard of the board game called Go?

[Sam Sanders]

No.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, well, it's from China, and people have been playing it for thousands and thousands of years. It looks kind of like chess. Basically, the players use black and white stones to try and conquer the largest amount of territory on a board. So think of it like checkers combined with chess, but with an almost infinite number of moves that you could play. In fact, it seemed too complicated for robots until AlphaGo. AlphaGo is a program made by a company called DeepMind, and boy, did it train for this. Is it cool if I put in a training montage here? Okay, I'm just gonna put one in. Hit it.

[Sam Sanders]

Training hard, never giving in. Alphago really wants to win.

[Elise Hu]

AlphaGo studied 100,000 human games of Go, different matchups, trying to master the moves. And on top of that, it played millions of games against itself. That's machine learning. Then, in 2016, it was finally ready. AlphaGo went up against perhaps the best Go player in the world, a man named Lee Se Daw. I was there in the crowd during this entire weekend tournament. It was the biggest gathering of international journalists I'd ever been part of. Lee Sedol, the Go player, started his professional career at age 12. He knew all the moves, or so he thought. When he went up against AlphaGo, he saw new strategies he would have never considered. And it worked for AlphaGo. AlphaGo ended up beating the Human four out of five matches. That's part of the potential here. Robots are human creations from our imaginations, but they can expand to become so much more. It's inspiring, really. And best of all, we can harness that power for good. We're already developing robots that can help partially paralyzed people walk again. We're making machines that can make bionic limbs feel and be controlled more like regular limbs with our minds. Robots can help find earthquake survivors under the rubble, or just clean our homes. And sure, you can spend time watching the skies, hoping to one day maybe see an alien with hopes it's actually a nice alien, which is a gamble. Or you could spend your time getting cool skills by actually learning to build your own robot. Lots of elementary, middle and high schools have robotics clubs where kids can make bots that lift things, carry things, and sometimes fight other robots. Show me an alien that can do any of that. Show me an alien at all. We've yet to even prove they exist. And while we're speaking of aliens, do you know who really loves robots? NASA Robots, not humans, are sent to explore far flung planets like Mars. It's a cold, desolate place, not really suitable for humans, but just fine for Curiosity. That is a six wheeled rover sent by NASA back in 2012 to explore Mars. This hard work scoops up soil drills in rocks and analyzes geological samples so it can send data back to Earth. Thanks to Curiosity, we've learned a ton of fascinating and illuminating facts about the red planet. With no aliens to report, I might add. So why should you choose robots? Because they're not like us. Sure, we made them, but they're also so different. And they can still help us. They can help us learn, explore, care for others. Which means they can help us with the stuff that makes us human. Team robot all the way.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

An optimistic and rousing argument for robots. What did you think of this declaration, Maddie?

[Maddie (Judge)]

That was very in depth. I loved it.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

What was the fact that stood out to you there?

[Maddie (Judge)]

The fact that with robotics clubs, people can interact with robots. Right now, that is a big draw for me.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Excellent work. Well, Sam, we're gonna give you a chance to respond to Elise. You have 30 seconds to make a rebuttal, and your time starts now.

[Sam Sanders]

Robots don't do all of the good stuff that Elise says they can. They're just not there yet. And speaking of, you know, a Mars rover? NASA sent one up recently and it got stuck in a sand pit and couldn't get out. Dumb robot. When you guys say, oh, these Roombas are great robots. Did you hear the story about how the Roomba spread dog poop all over its owner's house? Let's not overestimate what these robots can do. They're not there yet, and their minds cannot match the mind of an alien that has to stay in there.

[Elise Hu]

It's interesting, Sam, that you're taking the most negative examples of robots rather than the best ones. And so just because things go wrong, because machines do malfunction sometimes, that doesn't mean that the entire existence of them is unworthy.

[Sam Sanders]

I want us to have a realistic view of robots and what they can and can't do. Believe in. Lying to the children of the realistic.

[Elise Hu]

View is a little cynical, Sam.

[Sam Sanders]

Wow. I call myself a realist.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Well, Sam, now it's your turn to deliver a declaration of greatness. Convince Maddie and all of our listeners that Team Alien is the smash. Boom.

[Sam Sanders]

Best aliens.

[Elise Hu]

We come in peace. Tea, phone home.

[Sam Sanders]

It looks like a purple people leader to me. It was a1night1. Humans have been obsessed with aliens for a really long time. We've been dreaming up aliens and searching the skies for aliens for thousands of years.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Hello?

[Elise Hu]

Is anybody out there?

[Sam Sanders]

In the 16th century, the astronomer Nicholas Copernicus proposed a sun centered universe. And that laid the groundwork for talk about extraterrestrial life to explode. If the Earth isn't the center of the universe, then there must be other Earths out there inhabited by other beings like us. But maybe not like us. Once the 1800s rolled around, people began to try to make contact with these beings from other planets.

[Elise Hu]

I know.

[Taylor Lincoln]

We'll use a sky telegraph to communicate with life on other planets.

[Sam Sanders]

But it wasn't till about 70 years ago that tech became advanced enough for us to actually explore space. And soon after that, conspiracy theories and movies and massive scientific research projects all about aliens Took the world by storm. In the 1950s, the US Air Force began to use the UFO. That stands for unidentified flying objects. The first famous UFO sighting happened a couple years earlier. On a dark night in June 1947, a civilian pilot named Kenneth Arnold reported nine objects flying over Mount Rainier in Washington state. They were going fast, like 1700 miles an hour. And they looked like saucers skipping on water. Around the same time, a rancher in Roswell, New Mexico, found unidentifiable debris in his sheep pasture. Bits of metal and foil and weird scraps of some kind of glossy paper. I ain't never seen anything like it. This stuff has got to be from some kind of alien spaceship. Well, probably not. The Air Force decided those nine flying saucers Kenneth Arnold saw must have been a mirage. And the debris in Roswell. Fifty years later, the US Military released a report connecting the Roswell incident to a top secret atomic espionage project. But that has not stopped people from believing. From the 1950s onwards, movies and TV shows all about aliens have been big business. Hollywood churned out hundreds of them, including the Day the Earth Stood Still. Earth Versus The Flying Saucers, the Outer Limits, Star Trek, Star Wars, Star Maidens, Battlestar Galactica, Close Encounters of the Third kind, Alien Aliens et Independence Day, Men in Black, 1, 2, 3 and international, the X Files, Lilo and Stitch, Galaxy Quest, Alien vs. Predator District 9, Alien Covenant. Gotta stop there. In some of these movies, aliens are nice. Some of them are really hungry. Some look like humans. Others look more like jellyfish or even dinosaurs. Which brings me to my first point about why aliens are 100% cooler than robots. We can all cook up images of aliens and robots till the dogs come home. But robots will always resemble humans in some way. Another. Because we have to make them. They can only be as wild as we imagine them to be. But aliens, they'll be weirder than our wildest dreams. Maybe more powerful or more beautiful. More amazing. Wait, did you just hear that? It's a spaceship filled with aliens. They're probably gonna eat us. Just kidding. That's actually the sound of planet Earth. You see, in space, objects don't make noise because there isn't any air for sound waves to travel through. But they do give off signals that scientists can turn into sound. Wa. So those chirps are the sound of Earth's radiation belts. And here's the sound from the sun and a whole bunch of stars and black holes slamming into each other.

[Elise Hu]

And.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And.

[Sam Sanders]

And, ah, the universe. It is so noisy. Quiet, please. All right, now, how are we ever going to hear our alien friends talking to us through all that racket? Well, that's exactly what the SETI Institute is trying to figure out. SETI stands for the Search for Extraterrestrial Intellig. Scientists there at the institute use radio telescopes to search for alien technosignatures. Okay, not quite that technosignatures are any signal from an alien planet that comes from the use of some technology. Maybe it's radio waves or laser pulses or satellites or lights from an alien city or even pollution. Which brings me to my second point. Any aliens we might discover via technosignature. They probably aren't the only ones out there. There could be a ton of them in all shapes and sizes.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Hello, hello, hello. You come in peace.

[Sam Sanders]

I mean, think about it, little baby. Planet Earth is hanging out in a tiny solar system located in a minor arm of the Milky Way galaxy, which is likely made up of somewhere between 100 and 400 billion other stars like the sun. And our estimates say that there are billions or possibly trillions of other galaxies in the universe. With all that space, there's gotta be some other form of intelligent life in the cosmos, right? That is pretty amazing. And you know, you cannot say the same thing about robots. You just can't. What have they got, Roombas?

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Nope, you can't.

[Elise Hu]

All right.

[Sam Sanders]

Also final point to all the aliens out there in the universe. We're the aliens.

[Elise Hu]

Alien life detected, Captain. They have furry heads and 10 wiggly thingies coming off of long stumps.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

The aliens call themselves human beings, captain.

[Sam Sanders]

Isn't that amazing? I like being an alien, don't you?

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Ooh, yeah.

[Sam Sanders]

Robots, whatever. They're just glorified computers. But aliens. Think about it. They are us, and they could be everywhere. And they get us asking these big questions. They keep us searching the stars. And they are quite possibly more amazing than anything you or I could imagine.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Wow, a mind blowing defense of aliens. Maddie, what did you think? Are you feeling persuaded?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I really am. I love the point that aliens can be more than we could ever imagine. That is absolutely fantastic to me as a writer.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Well, Elise, it's your turn to make a rebuttal. We'll give you 30 seconds to respond to Sam and time starts now.

[Elise Hu]

What I want to point out is all of this is theoretical. All aliens are right now are basically what we can imagine. So the very limitations that he lists for robots, which is that they are man made, all of these ideas that we're conjuring up for aliens are also man made because they're just figments of our imagination. I would say let's get practical here. What exists right now, what can be helpful to humanity and helpful to us in our individual lives? That would be robots to prove that they exist.

[Sam Sanders]

What I hear you doing, Elise, is shutting your heart off to hope and imagination and faith and belief in something higher and bigger than all of us.

[Elise Hu]

I do believe. I do believe in what's higher and bigger than all of us. It's called robots and they're already here.

[Sam Sanders]

A Roomba is not higher than us. I'm sorry.

[Elise Hu]

There he is, going negative again and thinking of the least common denominator.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Oh man. You've got a lot to think about, Maddie. A lot of good points, a lot of good facts, a lot of good dreams. We've heard two epic fact filled declarations. Now, Maddie, we need you to award a point in secret for this round. Listeners, you too. You can always press pause to think it over. And remember, this is a very subjective judging system. Whoever convinced you that their side is the coolest should get the point. Okay. Maddie, did you mark it down?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I did.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Was it an easy decision to make?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Oh, it was tough. But I think the side that got the point really swayed me.

[Sam Sanders]

Which was?

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Well, we're gonna give you two a short break to recharge your battery or do whatever aliens do, but this showdown is far from over.

[Maddie (Judge)]

We'll be back with three more rounds of debate. Stay tuned for more Smashboom Best.

[Elise Hu]

You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Taylor Lincoln here with 18 time debate champ Todd Douglas. And we're doing something a little unusual today. We're covering a debate that occurred just moments ago behind the scenes on this very show.

[Todd Douglas]

Do we really have to do this?

[Taylor Lincoln]

Oh, come on, bud, it'll be fun. Now let's hear exactly what happened.

[Todd Douglas]

Uh, morning Taylor. You're looking great today. Really. A top notch blazer you got yourself there.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Okay, Todd, what are you buttering me up for?

[Todd Douglas]

Okay, I was kind of thinking, seeing as it's the last episode of the season and all, that maybe you'd consider letting me do the intro. Even though it's your turn?

[Taylor Lincoln]

Todd, we've gone over this. We take turns and this week is my turn.

[Todd Douglas]

Okay, fine. I guess this is the beginning of the end. First this, next thing you know, they replace me with a handsomer co host. Then I won't be able to book anything except infomercials. And then it's just a few months before my dwindling career breathes its last dying gasp of air and no one even remembers my trademark dimples.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Wow, Todd. What a big old logical fallacy. Logical fallacies are common mistakes debaters make when arguing for their side. And there are many different kinds with different names. Do you want to explain? Explain the specific logical fallacy you just used, Todd. Yes, go ahead, get into it.

[Todd Douglas]

That was a slippery slope fallacy.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Indeed it was.

[Elise Hu]

Go on.

[Todd Douglas]

A slippery slope is when you say one action that will start a chain of events that lead to a big outcome. Like my career coming to a grinding halt because you wouldn't let me have the first line in the episode.

[Taylor Lincoln]

You heard it here, debate head. Slippery slope fallacies only make your argument weaker. Now let's see how I responded. Uh, that doesn't sound very likely, Todd. Let's talk sense. It's my turn and I negotiated for it in my contract, and that's a fact. And can you imagine how disappointed and confused our devoted fans would be if their expecting to hear my voice? And they don't? They'll be crushed. Ahem. That's an emotional appeal right there. But why don't we get an expert's opinion? Hey, Molly, could you come over here and settle something for us?

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Sure, what's up?

[Taylor Lincoln]

As an experienced podcast host, don't you think consistency is important for connecting with your audience?

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Yeah, that sounds right to me.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Todd. It's your line, I believe.

[Todd Douglas]

Yep. Yep.

[Sam Sanders]

Right.

[Todd Douglas]

Well, what a triple threat of debate strategies from my delightful co host, Taylor Lincoln.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Why, thank you, Todd. Yep, I served up facts and an emotional appeal and even got an expert opinion in there.

[Todd Douglas]

Well, take it from me, debate heads, logical fallacies don't work.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Instead, use tried and true methods and above all, facts.

[Todd Douglas]

That's it for this season of State of Debate.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Boom.

[Sam Sanders]

Smash Boom.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

You're listening to Smash Boom.

[Sam Sanders]

Best.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

[Maddie (Judge)]

And I'm your judge, Maddie.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

We love hearing from our listeners. We get letters and virtual high fives and drawings. But most of all, we get really awesome debate ideas.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Like this one from Rosie and Solly from Skokie, Illinois.

[Elise Hu]

Our debate idea is TV shows versus podcast.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Oh, that is a tough call, Rosie and Solly. Well, we're gonna hear from them again at the end of the episode to hear who they think should win. I hope it's podcasts.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Now it's time to get back to today's debate, Aliens versus robots.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

On to our second round Micro round. For this micro round challenge, we asked our debaters to convince a Human family that their side, either an alien or a robot, would make a great babysitter. What kind of fun activities would they plan? Would they provide healthy snacks or help with homework? Would they walk the dog or maybe eat it? Elise went first in the last round. So, Sam, you're up. Tell us why a little green babysitter is the best kind of babysitter.

[Sam Sanders]

So when you think about who you want to take care of your child, you want a babysitter who is prepared to deal with the unexpected. Because kids are always doing things that are unexpected. Robots can only do routine. Robots can only do what you programmed them to do. You want a creature with a brain, an alien. What happens if the robot loses sight of your child? What happens if your kid throws the juice box on the robot and then the robot circuits fry? What happens if the robot's battery runs out? Aliens are alive and therefore better equipped to deal with the unexpected. Second, big point. You know what kids need more than anything else in this world? Love. You know who can't love what can't love a robot. Your Roomba can't love. You. Robots can't love. They don't have a heart. Aliens can have a heart. Aliens can have a soul. Do you want a robot tucking your kid in at night, Consoling them when they're crying? Can a robot give you a hug? No. Aliens are the best babysitters. Thank you.

[Elise Hu]

All of this depends on your image of an alien. No, what I'm imagining of an alien is like, the scary guys that are in M. Night Shyamalan's the Village that appear first as shadows. Like, I do not want that guy or gal or it babysitting my children.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

So what do you think, Maddie? Would you hire an alien?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Honestly, I think it depends on the alien too. I'm gonna need to, like, interview every single person.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, Elise, it's your turn to talk up robots. Qualifications. What is a robo babysitter programmed to do?

[Elise Hu]

I love the idea that you can program a robot babysitter in the first place, because we are really busy these days. We're always multitaske, and what we're asking of our caretakers is more and more responsibility. And so the fact that a robot can do all sorts of things without getting tired is a point for the robot. I have three children of my own, and I imagine they're like many kids in that they love screen time, and so iPads end up babysitting our kids. A lot. Robots are built in screens, so I can absolutely see robots being both the caretaker and the Netflix. So it's really fulfilling a lot of tasks for the parent. So I'm imagining endless possibilities because parents have so much to ask of our caretakers, and you can just program those into the robots themselves.

[Sam Sanders]

As someone who's gotten to know Alisa's three kids through her, I'm gonna tell you what I know to be true. Those kids would tear a robot in half in 20 minutes. They just would. I'm sorry. Here's the thing about technology stuff. Kids break that stuff. They break it.

[Elise Hu]

But this is. Aliens can't be broken.

[Sam Sanders]

You can't break a heart and a soul and a brain, which aliens have.

[Elise Hu]

I'm thinking about aliens just, like, oozing out.

[Sam Sanders]

You cannot break an alien's heart, mind, and soul.

[Elise Hu]

Like, I'm seeing a fork accidentally go into an alien and, like, it's green blood, like, just oozing out.

[Sam Sanders]

That's your kid's problem. Wow. You didn't talk about that with them. In my mind.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

This is going to be a very tough call. Maddie, I do not envy you having to make this decision. Take a minute to decide who wins this round.

[Sam Sanders]

Think back to when you were a kid.

[Maddie (Judge)]

I am a kid.

[Sam Sanders]

Well, you know, but you're past babysitting age, right? You're past age of needing a babysitter. Who or what would you have trusted most to watch? Young you?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I can't tell me. Just legally say that right now.

[Sam Sanders]

I'm just saying. Put it in your head. Put the question in your head.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Okay, Maddie, it is time to award your point. Have you made your choice?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I have.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, on to our most surprising round.

[Elise Hu]

Sneak attack.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

The sneak attack round is a different challenge every episode that our debaters are given on the spot. Sam and Elise, are you ready to hear what you're up against? Sure are. Okay, your sneak attack challenge is crossword clip. We want both of you to create three crossword puzzle clues related to your side. Each one should include a number of letters and a clue to help you guess the word. For example, if I was arguing for the beach, I might make up this crossword clue. A five letter word for a large, salty body of water.

[Elise Hu]

Ocean. Correct.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

That is the answer I was looking for. So both debaters will come up with three of these crossword clues related to their side, and then their opponent will try to get the answer. Does that make sense, Sam and Elise?

[Sam Sanders]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Sure does.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And, Maddie, the way you judge this round is totally up to you. You can judge them on creativity, humor, the number of facts they Work in. Or if they got the other competitor's clues right. There's no right way to score this. Got it, Maddie.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Absolutely.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, debaters, we're gonna give you some time to work while we listen to some lovely hold music.

[Elise Hu]

Hello, humans. I come in peace. Wah wah deedle doodle winky tease.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Call me et yoda, predator, meep moop sing wibble wobble blink001.

[Sam Sanders]

That is how I think.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Call me Siri.

[Sam Sanders]

Alexa.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Mega Man. All right, Sam and Elise, are you ready?

[Sam Sanders]

Oh, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Ready.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Excellent. We'll have you take turns presenting and solving these crossword clues. Elise, you're up first.

[Elise Hu]

Six letter word for Sam's least favorite robot.

[Sam Sanders]

Roomba.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Yep.

[Elise Hu]

Nailed it.

[Sam Sanders]

It's a bad robot. The bad robot.

[Elise Hu]

It doesn't even really fit the definition of robot that I set out in my declaration. But it's fine, which is why robots are bad. It's really helpful for Sam to use that.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, Sam, your turn.

[Sam Sanders]

A five letter word for the human organ in our bodies that we associate with emotion, love, and spirit.

[Elise Hu]

H E, A, R, T. Yes, ma'.

[Sam Sanders]

Am. Heart. Something an alien can have, but a robot never can.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, burn. Okay, here's a quiz. Four letter word for the human, like droid I introduced in my open.

[Sam Sanders]

R2D2.

[Elise Hu]

So much for Sam.

[Sam Sanders]

Pain.

[Elise Hu]

More attention to the robot. There's a lot of information in these rounds.

[Sam Sanders]

Give me a hint. What movie? Spock.

[Elise Hu]

That's an alien.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

It's got aliens on the brain.

[Elise Hu]

It's also my favorite robot in pop culture.

[Sam Sanders]

Data.

[Elise Hu]

He actually had to ask for help from the producers. I just want to point out for the judge there.

[Sam Sanders]

Thank you for the information.

[Elise Hu]

He had to get help to remember that.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Sanders]

Oh, my God.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, last one from Sam.

[Sam Sanders]

All right, my last word is a seven letter word that describes the ability to feel what others are going through.

[Elise Hu]

Empathy.

[Sam Sanders]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Sam Sanders]

Another characteristic trait that aliens could have, but robots. Never mind.

[Elise Hu]

Can easily show.

[Sam Sanders]

Sure, sure.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Oh, man. Some excellent crossword clues. Watch out, Will Shorts. Now, Maddie and all of you listening at home, it's time to award a point. However you decide to judge this round. Creativity, facts, getting the answers correct. Whatever you want. Completely surprising.

[Elise Hu]

Judge it by getting the answers correct.

[Sam Sanders]

No, judge it by. How awful. Judge it by whether or not you want a Roomba to B. I'm judging it holistically.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Holistically. I like the holistic approach. All right, Maddie, have you awarded a point?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I have.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Was it a tough decision?

[Maddie (Judge)]

No, actually, not really.

[Elise Hu]

I feel that I'm vibing. I'm vibing with our judge right now.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, three rounds down, just one more to go. The final six, Sam and Elise have one last chance to sway our judge in just six words. Sam, you're up first.

[Sam Sanders]

Aliens can live. Robots cannot.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Mmm. Excellent. Now Elise, you're up. Bring it home for the magnificent machines of team robot.

[Elise Hu]

Robots are programmable. Plus they exist.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Okay.

[Elise Hu]

Love that little boom mic drop.

[Sam Sanders]

Okay, sure.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right. It's been a long journey from faraway galaxies to common ground. From zeros and ones to complicated tasks. We've heard the good, the bad, the promising, and the terrifying. And now there's just one more point to award. Maddie, have you awarded the final point?

[Maddie (Judge)]

I have.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Excellent jump.

[Elise Hu]

I'm doing a drum roll, please.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Excellent. Maddie, who is the winner of today's debate? Oh, my God.

[Sam Sanders]

I'm actually really nervous.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Actually. A tie.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it's a tie. Aww. What are you just trying to be nice?

[Sam Sanders]

Come on.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Someone is going to win today because we have one more tie breaking round.

[Elise Hu]

Sudden death.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

The sudden death challenge is tongue tied. Write a tongue twister about your side. Your opponent has to read it as fast as they can. Again, the judging criteria is completely subjective. You only have 1 minute to write your tongue twister. Maddie, while our debaters work, do you want to break down the rounds for us and explain who got which points?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Declaration of greatness. Aliens won. That more than we can imagine part just won me right over. Micro Aliens won again. Because honestly, if I'm handing my kids over to someone, I'm gonna want them to be able to love. Actually sneak attack though. Robot side was funny. She got all the answers right. It was broad across the spectrum of answers. It was fantastic. Loved that point. To robots and then the final six. Honestly, the fact that robots can't live is necessarily swaying me at all. So robots won that one too.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, well, they both have one more chance to win you over. Sam went first last time. So Elise, you're up. Please read the tongue twister Sam wrote for team Alien.

[Elise Hu]

Alien. Aliana, Ariana Grande, Alda Alanis, Adele. All are aliens Ollie ollie oxenfree Aliens by the way to be aliens they're you and me Better than roombas.

[Maddie (Judge)]

Can't you see that's a whole song.

[Sam Sanders]

Yes, you're welcome, America.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

I'll set that to a beat later.

[Sam Sanders]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Mine doesn't make any sense.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

All right, Sam, you are up.

[Elise Hu]

Please note I had to help him with that tongue twist cause I couldn't read your mouth.

[Sam Sanders]

You writin like a robot in 3, 2, 1. Roomba the robot rode a riveting roadster, racked and rife with riders wearing woven wreaths on their wretched knees.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Wow. An excellent tongue twister and an excellent read of said tongue twister.

[Sam Sanders]

Thank you.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Really nice work, both of you. This is a really hard decision, Maddie. This is. But you have to decide and award a point for this final tongue twister round on whatever criteria you decided should be awarded on.

[Maddie (Judge)]

I do. Okay.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Okay, Maddie, the time has come. Who is the winner of today's debate?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Here we go. Aliens has won.

[Sam Sanders]

Yes.

[Maddie (Judge)]

The creativity won me over.

[Elise Hu]

I heard you wrote a song at the end. Oh, but I still love you, Sam. I'm not gonna be a sore loser.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Oh, wow.

[Sam Sanders]

Life finds a way. Life finds a way. I tell you what, man. Ugh.

[Elise Hu]

Sam, I really enjoyed our time together. I love that you're so optimistic about our alien overlords one day.

[Sam Sanders]

Thank you.

[Elise Hu]

I still did it. I still gotta get it back in.

[Sam Sanders]

Elise, I so enjoyed the points that you made in favor of robots because they were rooted in this real belief in the possibility of the human mind to design robots that can be great. And believing in the infinite possibility of our own brains is a beautiful thing. So thank you for that.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Well, Maddie has crowned the Smashboom Best, but what about you?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think should win.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Smash Boom. Best is brought to you by Brains on and American Public Media.

[Elise Hu]

It's produced by Rosie Dupont, Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, and Alyssa Dudley.

[Sam Sanders]

We had engineering help from Corey Schreppel and Josh Newell.

[Elise Hu]

We had production help from Maneka Wilhelm, Christina Lopez, and Lauren D. Brenna Everson.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Is the voice of our hold music, and our announcer is Marley Foyer worker Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Justin Koo, Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, John Miller, Nikki Petters, Quincy Surasmith, Natalie Chudnowski, and Peter Eklund. Elise, is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Elise Hu]

Caffeine.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Me too. And how about you, Sam? Any special shout outs?

[Sam Sanders]

Special shout out to my cubicle mate and operations guru for NPR west, who helped make today happen, Melissa Kuipers.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And, Maddie, do you want to give any special thanks?

[Maddie (Judge)]

Thanks to y' all for letting me come judge. This was tons of fun.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

You did an excellent job. You are a safe and fair judge.

[Sam Sanders]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you, Maddie. Even though I didn't win, you were.

[Maddie (Judge)]

So, so close, though.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

And before we go, we asked Rosie and Solly who they think would win in the TV versus podcast matchup that they suggested.

[Elise Hu]

I think podcasts would win because they have signs in them. I think TV shows would win because you can actually see any and hear what's going on.

[Molly Bloom (Host)]

Oh, ouch. Well, this is the last episode of season two, but if you want to hear a special bonus episode where I debate, you can join the debate [e-mail] debateclubby See you later.

[Sam Sanders]

Oh, you're the smashable West?

[Elise Hu]

Oh, better than the rest? It's Smash the West?

[Sam Sanders]

It's Smash the West? Imagine a lovely, benevolent ET Figure watching.

[Elise Hu]

That's what he wants you to think. That's what he wants you to think.

[Sam Sanders]

I love E.T. could.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, E.T.

[Sam Sanders]

Babysitter.

[Elise Hu]

So cute.

[Sam Sanders]

So cute.